Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flp back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
Maps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''
 * How in the world did Dakota get so big so fast?
 * They attacked and annexed Ute lands. Scandinator (talk) 23:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I still think that this Ute conquest is unrealistic.even up to the 19th century, the Northern american tribes never subjugated each other to that extent.or, couple that with the fact that there are no traction animals on the area, so managing a empire becomes more difficult.or the fact that the Lakota have no centralized government.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:23, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * My genoan colony in east Cuba is missing. Bauglir Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All (talk) 21:01, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 *  Isn't it is East Hispanola??Scandinator (talk) 23:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC) 
 * The outpost in East Hispaniola was a failure​, most people left and went to Cuba, so the big one is the cuban, the one in East Hispaniola still exists but its smaller than the map shows, and in the game is little more than a town with a few slave plantations. Bauglir Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All (talk) 20:32, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alodia is a full-fledged part of the Caliphate now, not a vassal state. Fed (talk) 23:39, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Before you point this out today or tomorrow, i forgot it too for 1555.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:24, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Collie why didn't you use the map I uploaded for 1550 then? Why do you always do this and never use the maps which other people have uploaded and made? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:25, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because i always forget to check them.Ah, and your rendition of Akmola on the latest map fixing doesn't seem right, as according with this map, Akmola doesn't control its own capital.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:03, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay I expanded Akmola a bit more. Also did Vinland and Sumatra changes too. Note I just added the Vinland expansion event because the last time I did it, it seemed to be forgotten so I've just done it again, that's why I went back & added the mod event. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 12:34, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * What are the two light gray states in OTL Mexico? CourageousLife (talk) 20:35, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but they are independent states created by event.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:02, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Where's Manchuria's New Harbin colony? The Manchurians should have a dot of territory in OTL Sonora based around the port of Guaymas. Yank 20:37, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I didn't know where this Guaymas was, so i put the colony on Baja California.Ah, and the 1000 sq km figure is to be divided among the colonies, not to be used simultanously by two colonies.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:49, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd still like it placed where it's supposed to be on the next map. Also there should be another Native Antillian country roughly in northern Indiana. Yank 05:03, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I ddn't add this country because i didn't know where was Indiana, as i'm not American.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 12:51, December 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * You do know that both of those problems could be fixed by simply looking at a map? Yank 15:33, December 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Neither Nuovo Brescia (accidentally called Nuovo Padua a couple times) or Nuovo Firenze are shown on the map. One is on the East Coast of Lake Nicaragua the other is in West Papua (whereever in Papua, I don't care) Scandinator (talk) 09:20, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I added the one in West Papua but Lake Nicaragua is surrounded at all sides so I can't add that other colony of your's ~Von.
 * Did algorithm but was too lazy to calculate how long the war would take, but I had taken 37% at max. Enough time has elapsed in the game for me to annex it anyway. Please merge the Khosut Khanate with China. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 15:49, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I fixed this ~Von.
 * I don't seem to find the (revamped) colony of New Alexandria; it's on eastern Sulawesi. Fed (talk) 05:20, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Its there, I've added some more expansion. You may need to zoom in a fair bit to see the colony. ~Von

1565 Map Issues


 * The Satomi clan annexed the Ōtomo clan back in 1561. The Ōtomo clan was located in Northern Kyushu. -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 2012年12月29日 06:42:24 (JST)
 * I've included a link to the wikipedia article on Guaymas here. now there should be no exucuse to get the location of my New Harbin colony wrong. Yank 19:53, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Iroquois and Mecklenburg conquered by Brandenburg. Altmark by Saxony. Austria in personal union with Brandenburg.

Brandenburg
Total: 78
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 5 (larger colonial empire), 1 (attacker)
 * Strength: Brandenburg (L), Scandinavia (M), Luxembourg (S), Saxony (M), Magdeburg (S) = 14/4 = 3.5 ~ 4
 * Military Development: 26
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit Count: 8751
 * UTC Time: 16:35
 * 1*6*3*5 = 90
 * 8751/90 x pi = 305.4675...
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 16
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: - 1

Erokees
Total: 46/51
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: none
 * Strength: Erokees (L +4) = 0
 * Military Development: 5/2 = 2.5 = 3
 * Economy: 5/2 = 2.5 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 5/2 = 2.5 = 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5/10
 * Chance: 7
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:

Result
((78/(78+38))*2) - 1 = 34.48%

Discussion
Infrastructure doesn't count for your score unless you are the defender.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:40, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:49, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yes.it's even on the rules.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:07, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

And plus, your capital is pretty much in the other side of the world, the chance for NPC's isn't random (is the number right after your number), and your score can only be 3 on motive, because you aren't defending your ownteritory, and fighting to help an ethnicity on their nation is pretty much implausible, since it is an native nation, after all.their motive is 10, as you already had shown pretensions of annexing them before, and all the other motives that give 7 do not apply.and, your ages are pretty much the same, as the formation of the Haudenosaunee and the last government change of Brandenburg happened on the same timeframe.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:28, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

OK. I'll fix the math in the morning; I'm going to sleep now. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 07:17, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

OK I'm doing this all over again. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:18, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Again, you did the economy wrong, the Haudenosaunee appeared in 1458, so it was more than 100 years ago.And there ain't no way their motive can't be 10, counting the precendents.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:44, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

No, it's five. I'm trying to get as much as possible, not all of it. And these advantages are becoming really implausible. How on earth can native tribes fight back armed Europeans? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 07:26, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well, in OTL, the Haudenosaunee themselves survived until the 18th century.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:39, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Notification
I might be a bit inactive the next week or so (I already was a bit) because of the holidays. 77topaz (talk) 03:03, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

I also might be absent from today until tuesday, or it is thursday? i always confuse these the day before wednesday.but don't worry, the map will be ready before 1570 ends, and i already told AP to take my place on posting in case that i can't access the internet there.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:53, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

The day before wednesday is tuesday. Also I can do the map if you want. You'll probably want to update your colonies yourself mind you, so take the current updated map for 1565 and upload it for 1570 with your colonial expansion on it and I'll do the rest. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:46, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Mahdiate
Total: 64*1.5 = 96
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: (larger colonial empire, attacker) +6
 * Strength: Wallachia (M), Rumelia (L), Anatolia (L), Candar (M), Karaman (M), Cilesia (M), Trbizond (M), Al-Slaveit (M), Crimea (M), Georgia (M), Circassia (M), West Qoyunlu (M), East Qoyunlu (M), Iraq (M) Persia (M), Afghanistan (M), Balochistan (M), Koli (M), Gujurat (M), Deccan (M), Mangyastau (M), Dimurats (M), Bukhara (M), Xwarezm (M), Turkistan (M), Aqmola (M), Oman (M), Shaybah (M), Nejd (M), Hadramut (M), Yemen (M), Ehthiopia (M), Nubia (M), Hijaz (M), Egypt (M), Palesine (M), Syria (M), Tripolitania (M), Tunisia (M), Algeria (M): 122/22 -- 5.545 ~ +6
 * Military Development: +4
 * Economy: +4
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +8
 * Edit Count: 5,961
 * UTC Time: 21:32 - 2*1*3*2 = 12
 * 5,961/12*pi= 1560.58615067
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 9 +20 = +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Byzantium
Total: 32
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Byzantium (L), Venice (M), Scandinavia (S), Papal States (M), Austria (M), Tyrolia (MV), Salzburg (MV), Cyprus = 22 -- 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit Count: 34
 * UTC Time: 21:32 - 2*1*3*2 = 12
 * 34/12*pi= 8.90117918517
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((96/(32+96))*2)-1 = 0.5

(50)*(1-1/(2*2)=37.5

The Caliphate wins 37.5% following a 2 year war meaning that they can annex the Byzantine empire.

Discussions
I think you need a leader, else the military development scores and the economy scores can't be done.i assume the leader would be likely Rumelia, ain't it?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:39, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'd say Rumelia would be the leader. Fed (talk) 17:51, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah Rumelia makes the most sense.

Also wouldn't relgion be the reason? The Mahdi wants to spread Islam rather than gaining economic resources.

Also thank you very much for making the algorithm I was dreading doing it. --VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:42, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

The HRE states are missing. I'll add them. And can all the Caliphate states always give M or S in a war? Sounds kind of ridiculous... Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 18:55, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

That is a bit ridiculous, considering that most of the turns by the Caliphate in 1566 are "builds up its economy/military", with no word of being involved in the war, yet their names are still in the algorithm. ChrisL123 (talk) 19:21, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

What he said. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 19:34, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

The Byzantium side has a larger colonial empire(Scandinavia, Venice, etc). Not to mention the penalties for recent wars on the side of the Caliphate. Isn't there penalties for having 3+ wars at once(Byzantium, Morocco, Adal, etc).AP (talk) 19:46, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

No you misunderstand the algorithm, its colonial empire of the countries which are fighting in the war only. So only the colonial empires of Byzantium and Caliphate are considered.

And the wars being waged at the same time are being done by different provinces of the caliphate so that stuff don't apply. Its the same as penalizing Venice for a war fought by Brandenburg just because they both in the HRE. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:22, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

We're talking about the leaders here. And you guys don't have a colonial empire, just an empire. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:25, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * No you fool, we have colonies in Africa, 4 colonies to be exact. Socotora, Chomellak and two in South Africa. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:11, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

How are Ethiopia and Nubia going help you in this war with crossing masses of land and water? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:26, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * The same can be said for Scandinivia, Austria, etc. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:11, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Cyprus supports Byzantium BTW. Airlinesguy (talk) 01:08, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Military aid I take it? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:11, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:16, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

On the other algorithms, the coalition's colonial empire was considered. The penalties make no sense because there should be a hefty penalty for fighting a 3 front war. Wouldn't that be a bit difficult for anyone? And that example made no sense because the Caliphate is a single entity with provinces while the HRE is a loose federation of sovereign states.AP (talk) 01:17, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Byzantium are not fighting in a coalition. And my example makes perfect sense if that is how we've been treating the caliphate for the past 100 years. Please read the rules and check past examples properly before applying them to this case. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:11, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

The Caliphate gets 20% of Byzantium. Yank 14:24, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Mahdiate
Total: 67*1.5 =101
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6 (attacking, larger colonial)
 * Strength: Wallachia (M), Rumelia (M), Anatolia (M), Candar (M), Karaman (M), Cilesia (M), Trbizond (M), Al-Slaveit (L), Crimea (L), Georgia (M), Circassia (M), West Qoyunlu (L), East Qoyunlu (M), Iraq (M) Persia (M), Afghanistan (M), Balochistan (M), Koli (M), Gujurat (M), Deccan (M), Mangyastau (M), Dimurats (M), Bukhara (M), Xwarezm (M), Turkistan (M), Aqmola (M), Oman (M), Shaybah (M), Nejd (M), Hadramut (M), Yemen (M), Ehthiopia (M), Nubia (M), Hijaz (M), Egypt (M), Palesine (M), Syria (M), Tripolitania (M), Tunisia (M), Algeria (M), Byzantium (M) 126/15 --- 8.4 -> 8
 * Military Development: 73/8 -- 9.125 -> 9
 * Economy: 2/2 --0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 1447
 * UTC Time: 11:34 --> 374
 * 1447/374*2.1415926535 = 8.285
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 9 + 20 = 29
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Muscovy
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Muscovy (L), Novogrod (L), Poland (L), Scandinavia (M), Lithuania (M), Psokov (MV), Rostov (MV), Ruhenia (MV), Ryazyan(MV), Ukraine (MV), Moldova (MV), Sibir (MV)  32 -- 0
 * Military Development: 8 -- 0
 * Economy: 2 -- 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit Count: 2780
 * UTC Time:11:40 440
 * 2780/440*3.14 = 19.839
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((101/(35+101))*2)-1 = 48.52

(48.52)*(1-1/(2(4))) = 36.39

The will last 4 years, and Russia is to be annexed. It will be explained how it will be divided. Saamwiil, the Humble 22:54, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Should we do the war algorithms for the invasions of Adal and Morocco first? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 15:46, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

You can. My hand will be full with European algorithms. Saamwiil, the Humble 21:52, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

You need to add the other russian states to the allies list. They're being invaded so they'll be fighting too. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:58, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Kappelist League
Total: 20*1.5 = 30 (tentatively)
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: (attacker) +1
 * Strength: Milan (L), Brunswick (M), Lauenburg (M), Hesse-Wolfenbuttel (M), Paderborn (M), Nassau (M), Strassburg (M), Munster (M), Breman (M), Altmark (M), Mecklenburg (M): 34 --> 0
 * Military Development: +12 -- 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: +1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edit count: 796
 * UTC time: 08:58
 * 8*5*8= 320
 * (796/320)*pi = 7.8147117258
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Catholic League
Total: 84 (tentatively)
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 (larger colonial empires)
 * Strength: Brandenburg (L), Luxembourg (L), Papal States (L), Provence (MV), Saxony (L), Venice (M), Siena (M), Modena (M), Croatia (MV), Burgundy (M), Calais (M), Magdeburg (MV), Aragon (M), France (M), Austria (M), Tyrolia (MV), Salzburg (MV), Mecklenburg (SW), Anhalt (MVW): 52/34 = 1.529 = +2 (ALL SET TO CHANGE)
 * Military Development: 26 (Brandenburg), 10 (Luxembourg), 28 (Papal States), 14 (Saxony) = 78/12 = 6.5 = +7
 * Economy: +8 (Luxembourg), +2 (Brandenburg), +2 (Pope), +0 (Saxony) = +12
 * Infrastructure: 12 (Brandenburg), 6 (Luxembourg), +0 (Saxony), +0 (Pope) = 18/1 = +18
 * Expansion: -1 (Brandenburg War in New World)
 * Motive: +7
 * Chance: (Using Imperial government numbers) = +8
 * Edit Count: 8813
 * UTC Time: 1439
 * 1*4*3*9 = 108
 * (8831/108)*pi = 256.883...
 * Nation Age: [5 (Brandenburg), +0 (Luxembourg), +5 (Papal States)]/3 = 3
 * Population: +10
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Results
Crushing Catholic League victory, ((84/(84+30))*2)-1 = 47.37%

The war continues, and the League will determine when the war ends. ChrisL123 (talk) 21:04, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Yes becoming part of the Kappelist league would be a change in a government but it'd probably would be a popular revolt so you have to multiply the final score of Milan by 1.5 --VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:58, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

So, same result? ChrisL123 (talk) 22:27, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Seemingly, but how come the kappelists only have 1 leader yet the catholics have 4? That makes little to me. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:03, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Cause the other Kappelist states don't have players. ChrisL123 (talk) 23:11, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Beat me by a minute. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:13, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

If this is the war as a whole then other states would be leaders as they are also being invaded by you guys. If this is just the war against Milan then fair enough. But if your doing this algorithm expecting to take over all of those other states then its wrong to do so as they'd be fighting at full strength so factors like the development scores will come into play. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:30, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Bavaria
Total: (30*1.5) + motive
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength: Bavaria (L): 4 --> 0
 * Military Development: +12 -- 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: +4
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: ???
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 2053
 * Time: 09:14
 * 9*1*4= 36
 * (2053/36)*pi= 179.158047717
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: +10
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Imperials
Total: 40
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 (larger empire: Austria (including vassals and the such)), +1 (attacker)
 * Strength: Saxony (L), Austria (L), Tyrolia (M), Salzburg (MV), Magdeburg (M), Altmark (MV), Switzerland (M), Croatia (MV) = 23/4 = 2.75 = +3
 * Military Development: 16 (Saxony) = 16/12 = 1.33 = 1
 * Economy: 0 (Saxony), 0 (Austria) = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0 (Saxony), 0 (Austria)/4 = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 8882
 * Time: 1457 (1*4*5*7 = 140)
 * 8882/140*pi = 199.311...
 * Nation Age: +5 (Saxony), +0 (Austria) = +5
 * Population: +5
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Discussion
Bavaria's government did not change, many reichstag members, as well as the royal family, were secretly Kappelist. (thank you for setting up the algorithm scraw, i'm not good at it.)

i should have a plus for infrastructure as I built it up too, it wasn't just the militaryAndr3w777 (talk) 01:01, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

can somebody please add my infrastructure years and figure our chance??Andr3w777 (talk) 20:40, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

my motive should be +10 not +7, i am fihting for my life.

No, you were fighting to leave the HRE, and they're fighting to stop you. Not sure what that would mean in terms of motive scores, though. ChrisL123 (talk) 22:29, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

The reason is immaterial it is still a fight for my life, as per rules it should be a 10 I've not broken law in succession, it is in the treaty and our constitution if they refuse, I've not done anythingAndr3w777 (talk) 22:43, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Similar to what I said above, leaving the HRE and becoming part of the Kappelist league would be a change in a government but it'd be a popular revolt so you have to multiply your final score by 1.5. Therefore it'd be life or death because your new non-HRE government is fighting to stay out of the HRE and retain its current kappelist independent government. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:56, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

The Imperial's motive isn't to destroy their nation though. Their purpose is to stop the Bavarian government from leaving the HRE. Likewise, Bavaria's motive is an independence war. I believe the right motive is Defending (fighting to defend territory you already own, +5).

Mecklenburg
Total: 34
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength: Mecklenburg (L), Altmark (L): 8 --> 0
 * Military Development: +0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation Age: +0 (or -10, depends on if changing to a Kappelist regime counts as a change of government).
 * Population: +4 (Meck.), +4 (Alt.)
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

German Coalition

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 (larger colonial empires)
 * Strength: Brandenburg (L), Saxony (L), Magdeburg (MV), Anhalt (MV): 12/8 = 1.5 = 2
 * Military: 26 (B), 10 (S)
 * Economy: +4 (B)
 * Expansion: -1 (B)
 * Motive: +7
 * Chance: 7
 * (8889/(1*7*5*5 = 175)*pi) = 159.574...
 * Nation Age: +5 (B), +5 (S): +10
 * Population: 8 (B), 6 (S): +14
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Total: 87

Result
((87/(87+34))*2) - 1 = 43.80%

Discussion
No you've not done Meckleburg right, they have development scores and the rest of the Kappelist league would aid them too. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:54, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

The Kappelist League would not aid them as this is a seperate extension that takes place during the war. It's just another theatre of the war. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein!

Yes they would your attacking a Kappelist league state! <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:21, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Technically, they attacked the Catholics. ChrisL123 (talk) 22:25, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah but not as a war. They'd help as its part of the same war for Kappelist league independence its just a different theatre. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:32, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

It's not feasible for every Kappelist state to send aid, though. By that logic, each Catholic League state should send aid to the German states. ChrisL123 (talk) 22:57, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well minus Milan I then. Other than that they are all in northern Germany and could reach Meckleburg via kappelist controlled land routes. The logic is not the same because some catholic league states (e.g. Aragon or Cyprus) have much longer sea routes to send aid unlike the rest of the kappelist league who have much shorter sea routes. Its a lot more feasible than every catholic league state so stop being like that. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:01, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

>.> Your logic is the same as the entire HRE helping Byzantium when you invaded it. Not to mention that if the whole League insensibly comes to help two states, the rest of the war will be easier for the Catholics to divide and conquer on the other side. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:10, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think you mean the Caliphate. But yeah, I was just going to say. ChrisL123 (talk) 23:12, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I meant. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:14, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

It makes sense for the kappelists to help their allies who are right close to them, what about this are you guys struggling to understand?

Why is this a separate algorithm to the rest of the war against the kappelists anyway? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:25, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Good point. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:29, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Back at last
I am back at last, after being gone much longer than expected. Sorry for the prolonged absence. What happened involving Scotland while I was gone? LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:14, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Not much in Scotland but England has broken up. Elsewhere the Mahdi expansion wars has started as has the HRE break-up wars. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!)