Talk:Dawn of War (Map Game)

Missing country
Hey, I was checking the list of countries and is it me or Portugal is missing? Because they have colonies and all but they aren't in the list of european nations.

Rebels
Could I be democratic rebels in eather Russia or South America please, preferably Russia? They would have existed.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 15:56, September 27, 2015 (UTC)

the USSR historically as far as ive researched never had any rebels of that sort. The Society was rather supressed, and most rebellions and insurgents were muslims or unrest in minority republics like Georgia or Chechnya.

As for South America, the Federation is a Democracy. All of the member states minus conquered colonies from europe are in this Federation by choice. The Main issue is the federation utilizing Ultranationalism to put its Latin people above all else and by extention any Latin allies such as Cuba or Mexico.

If there are to be any rebels its going to be in Major colonies still existing like India or French Indo-China.

War Algo
Is there a war algorithm in this game?

Awesome history 28 (talk) 15:56, September 27, 2015 (UTC)

Yes there is but the game isnt up to date with everything yet. I will be working this week to get everything else fleshed out. In the Meantime i urge everyone to make nation pages, if you need any information about if anything particular to your nation has changed let me know. I will gladly provide the information when i can.

When will this game start? OMGdidiwin (talk) 23:44, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

Algo
Only mods will be allowed to do the algorithms.

National War Effort Timer:
The National War Effort will be adjusted once per a day to reflect on how the war is going for either side, this means that the timer is variable.
 * Aid from Allies and how they are fairing in the war
 * Allies are sending support on a large scale and have troops positioned in your territory to help against enemy or are fighting on the same front in a well coordinated manner: +20


 * You and your allies on fighting together on the same front but aid is limited: +15


 * Your allies are fighting on a different front but are holding down enemy troops and cooperation exists between countries : +10


 * Your allies are engaging the enemy and holding them down however they can not aid you: +5


 * your allies are losing the war: -5


 * Your allies have suffered several setbacks and are unable to hold down sufficient enemy numbers as you fight on several fronts: -10 (an armistice can be secured with a status quo ante bellum)


 * Your allies have collapsed and you are now facing the full force of the enemy while fighting on several fronts: -15 (at this point it might be wise to seek a armistice with less then favorable terms)


 * You are alone against several enemies on a single front: -20


 * you are alone in the war against multiple enemies on more then one front: -30 the war is lost be ready to accept surrender demands.


 * Population:
 * less than 1 million: 0
 * 1-10 million: +1


 * 11-20 million: + 5


 * 21-45 million: +10


 * 46-100 million: +15


 * 100 million and over: +20


 * Industry:
 * Pre-industrial Society: -5


 * Small Industry: + 5


 * Meduim industry +10


 * Large Industrial Base: +15


 * Massive Industrial Base (only three countries have this at the moment) : +20


 * National Power:
 * Super Power (only available after 1950): +30


 * Great Power: +20


 * Middle Power: +10


 * Regional Power:+5


 * Small or weak Country: 0


 * Government Type and Support for Government:
 * Absolute Monarchy or Dictatorship supported by the people: +5


 * Limited Constitutional Monarchy Supported by the People: +10


 * Constitutional Monarchy supported by the people: +10


 * Democracy Supported by the people: +15


 * Oligarchy : +5


 * A.M. or Dictatorship not supported: -15


 * L.C.M. not supported : -10


 * C.M. not supported -5


 * Democracy not supported : -5


 * Capital is over-run, or Revolution takes place: -50 (entire war effort collapses and your forced to sign peace treaty or your government is forced to go into exile, this happens once your timer runs out, if an unpopular government has been at war for 5 years, or if the enemy occupies 40% of the heartland)


 * Government in Exile: -5 to which every country in hosting the exiled government, though it allows the government in exile to control some of their colonies and continue the war effort without a timer but at a third of their original strength


 * Military structure:
 * Large Professional Army with Massive Conscription Pool (only possible for Great Powers and Super Powers at the outbreak of ww 2 who have a population more then 100,000,000): +30


 * Large Professional Army with large Conscription Pool (only the Great Powers Powers who are stable and powerful economy can develop this) : +20


 * Medium Sized Professional Army with large conscription Pool (for great powers only): +15


 * Small Professional Army with large conscription pool (only attainable if you have a stable and prosperious country): +10


 * Large Army with Mass Conscription ( for countries like China or those that have large populations over 100,000,000): +10


 * Professional Army: +5


 * Small modern Army: 0


 * Weak Army (poorly trained, poorly equipped): -5




 * Naval Power:
 * Large Navy capable of fighting across the world(only two of these can arise at a time): +20


 * Large Navy capable of Fighting across one or two of the Oceans (only great powers are capable of this): +15


 * Medium Sized Navy: +10


 * Small Navy: +5


 * NO Naval Power if you are a coastal Country: -10


 * Blockaded :
 * Crippling Blockade (applicable only if the other power is unable to break the blockade and is more then 3 years into the war): -20


 * Absolute Blockade and country is not able to trade with the outside world: -15


 * Partial Naval Blockade: -5


 * Fronts in the War:
 * Overwhelming victories on the front lines: +20


 * One Front which you are winning: +10


 * Two Fronts which you are winning +5


 * fighting on more then 2 fronts: 0


 * Stalemate on one front and winning on another: 0


 * Stalemate on one front: 0


 * Stalemates on two fronts: -5


 * stalemate on all fronts: -10


 * Fighting 3 or more fronts (this aplies to colonies as well): -10


 * Losing on a front: -15


 * losing on two fronts: -20


 * losing on all fronts: -40 (collapse of war effort soon)


 * Population weariness or Morale:
 * Population is extremely nationalistic, supports the war effort completely, and isnt suffering from supply shortages (only possible if the country is under a totalitarian populist, like otl hitler or japan): +20


 * Population Stands behind the war effort and are well supplied: +10


 * Population is largely supportive of the war and in well supply: +5


 * Population is nationalistic, supports the war but is ill supplied: +5


 * Population is neutral towards the war but is well supplied: 0


 * Population is not supportive of the war: -5


 * Population is weary of the war (5 years in if well supplied, 2 years in if ill supplied):-10


 * Population is tired of the war and is ill supplied:-15


 * Population is suffering because of war effort and wide spread social problems are occuring: -30 (revolution next turn)


 * Army Condition and Morale:
 * Nationalistic Zealots, and well supplied: +20


 * High Morale and well supplied: +15


 * Good Morale and well suplied:+10


 * Above average morale and sufficiently supplied: +5


 * Well supplied but low morale: 0


 * strong morale but lack of decent supplies:0


 * wavering morale: -5


 * ill supplied, and wavering morale: -10


 * Low Morale: -15


 * Desertions begin (occurs if the troops are low in morale for several turns and if the war efforts is going poorly) :-20


 * Mass desertions (collapse of all war fronts): -50 (enemy breaches all defences)

Depending on how things are near the end of a war even a losing party can get favorable terms in an armitice if they werent completely defeated or if they had made sufficient gains to counter the losses of allies.
 * War Effort Score:
 * 1) if the war effort is higher then 150 you can fight the war for 8-10 years depending on variables.
 * 2) If the war effort in between 100 and 150 you can last 5-7 years depending on you allies and on the size of your country.
 * 3) if your war effort is between 50 and 100 you can last 2-4 years
 * 4) if your war effort is less then 50 you can last 1 year at war on your own.
 * 5) if you have a negative war effort your war effort has collapsed and youll be forced to go into exile with the enemy occupying your heartland if you are fighting with another ally backing you heavily or youll be forced to sign a peace treaty which the enemy dictates within plausible demands.
 * 6) If an enemy drops a nuclear weapon on you and you cant retaliate the war is automaticly lost but nukes will be limited this game.

Land Algo
This algo is for each individual front. if you are fighting well on a front but the enemy open ups a seond front which puts you at risk then the first front will be forced to withdraw further inland counting as a battle lost in a losing front. This algo is also only viable until 1930 where it will be replaced by a more modern algo to represent the change in warfare during the era. Road to War Algo

The Road to War Algorithm is going to focus heavily on more strategic aspects of organizing a military campaign. The Military warfare of Road to war will focus heavily on objectives and realistic ability to fight in certain time periods. Before you start any algorithm, you must chose an overall strategic objective which will mostly focus on certain things. Taking Cities, Strategic locations, Breaking defensive lines, and making various advances.

The Objectives are currently as follows

Seizing City -

Seizing Strategic location -

Breaking defensive lines -

Decisive Battle -

Seizing Region -

These objectives will give direction and limitations towards your Attack. Each objective will only yield so much territory and will cause a certain amount of casualties and will also require certain things to carry out. Seizing a city can go multiple ways. Unless declared an open city (to avoid huge collateral damage to cultural artifacts or production capability) then a City will have to be seized militarily. Some cities may be lightly defended and some may be defended to the last man.

The Other player may make that decision but in order to conserve forces may only offer token resistance. The Sieging and Seizing of cities is an extremely viable tactic to break the political will of nations rather than conducting huge costly general offensives. Taking major cities (and in the case of huge sieges) can lead to easier time demanding your war goals and overall will give many attacking nations the opportunity to destroy entire armies and render the enemy less than capable of defending themselves afterwards.

The Other objectives are rather obvious as well. Seizing a strategic locations (Gibraltar for example) will yield huge amounts of benefits for the attacker if they are successful. They are able to seize strategic locations such as choke points, advantageous defensive positions, industrial territory and resources that are needed for a grand strategic element. Breaking defensive lines will result in mostly fighting to break a defensive line at the front. Trenches, Forts, things of that sort. Decisive battle will depend heavily on the players actions. Offering a decisive battle have many advantages and disadvantages. Particularly in terms of territory gained or lost. A Decisive battle can couple with many of these other objectives and is the only objective than can pair with other objectives. Decisive battles can only occur in extreme amounts of manpower and equipment (hundreds of thousands or even millions of men and tons of equipment.) In the case of smaller nations it will be scaled down. But a Decisive battle means that if there was a clear cut victor, then it can lead to destroyed armies, captured men and equipment in mass amounts, and the seizure of extremely strategic locations. However Decisive battle means that if you lose as well, youll suffer the same issue as well as a potential counter attack by a victorious defender wishing to push the advantage due to the bonus involved in fighting or pursuing a disorganized or faltering army. However this remains a choice of the player as casualties can prevent a successful counter or pursuit Objectives are required in order to wage an effective campaign and overall just cause you manage to win a victory to secure something does not necessarily mean you can keep it. Seizing core regions of Germany for Example will not lead to the ability to take the entirety of the Rhineland for example.

Location: (Goes by closest military force of significant strength) On Location: +25 At the Front as an attacker or defender


 * Near Location: +20 Within short distance of the front (able to maneuver to aid existing forces or an ally)


 * Medium Distance: +15 (within a reasonable distance to help for a future defensive or offensive)


 * Long Distance: +10 (at a long distance from that particularly conflict, potentially to be brought to said front for conflict but probably better used elsewhere)


 * Far away: +5 (Will take months to reach this particular part of the conflict, would probably make negligible difference on the outcome)

Troop Morale:  Troop morale is going to be handled by the overall troop moral rather than national morale (which handles in your overall ability to wage war for a period of time)


 * Economic (Gains land, resorce, etc): +2


 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: +3


 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 4


 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 5


 * Aiding an Ally: + 5


 * Pre-emptive Strike: +5


 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 10


 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 6


 * Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 6


 * Attacking to enforce politcal hegemony: +7


 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 8


 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 8


 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 9


 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10

Military Quality:


 * Top Quality: +30 (This is the top quality of military hardware, and development)


 * High Quality: +25 (This is a military with a relatively high development, but is not leading the way or on par with the other Great Powers)


 * Sub Top Quality: +20 (Your military is relatively well equipped, most of its equipment is imported or contracted, and in rare cases self developed.)


 * Medium Quality: +15 (Your Military imports most or all of its weapons, or resorts to outdated technology for its standard weaponry, All colonial troops will get this as their quality standard.)


 * Low Quality: +10 (You military uses outdated weapons almost exclusively)


 * Poor Quality: +5 (Your military is in the stone age compared to the rest of the world, the occasional firearm is there, but the majority of your forces still use extremely outdated weaponry.)

Military Quantity:


 * Huge Quantity: +30 (Your military has the ability to field immense amounts of manpower from its large population at little cost to its production)


 * Large Quantity: +25 (Your military can field a large amount of manpower from its large population, with some cost to its production)


 * Moderate Quantity: +20 (Your military can field a moderate amount of manpower from its moderate population at some cost to its production)


 * Modest Quantity: +15 (Your military can field a smaller amount of manpower from its population at greater cost to its population.)


 * Small Quantity: +10 (Your military can only field a small amount of its manpower from its population without great cost to its production)


 * Negligible Quantity: +5 (Your military can barely field any men from its population and will incur great cost to its production if it fields too many)

Defensive fortification:


 * Deep Defensive doctrine (Kursk Salient, Maginot line, Atlantic Wall) +20


 * Fort and heavy trench defences: +7


 * Medium Trench lines: +5


 * Light defensive fortifications: +3

Motive: 


 * Economic (Gains land, resorce, etc): +2


 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: +3


 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 4


 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 4


 * Aiding an Ally: + 5


 * Pre-emptive Strike: +5


 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6


 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 6


 * Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 6


 * Attacking to enforce politcal hegemony: +7


 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 8


 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 8


 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 9


 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10

Troops: Troops will be handled in the case of the total concentration of troops you have on that particular Front. For every 10,000 troops you will be gaining a +10 in an algo. hence having a large amount of troops can in fact save you in an algorithm, but at the cost of Atrocious casualties for this cost of Battle. This does not mean you can just throw millions of troops into an algorithm and win, you do in fact need to proportionally attack a nation to simulate a the real cost of war. One would not simply throw millions of German troops into an attack on Bulgaria when a much more force appropriate response would be much more cost effective.

Ships will be handled in a much more specific fashion. You will specifically have to keep track of how many ships your nation maintains (if you dont it will be assumed you do not have a navy or it is in port and will not be used). Along side this, a Local navy would need to be beaten in order to conduct any sort of Amphibious invasion, and fleets in being (as in a fleet in port that forces planning around it) will also be used. If a fleet is in port and you wish to conduct an invasion or coastal attack you would still need to deal with the Fleet which would come out to meet you almost definitely. the Geography of this as well will come into play with nearby fleets. A Nearby fleet could easily come around and help a beleaguered allied fleet which would in turn shift the tide of the battle. Supply ships are for the most part counted as non combatant but targets nontheless.


 * Carriers: +25


 * Battleships: +20


 * Battlecruisers: +15


 * Cruisers: +13


 * Destroyers: +10


 * Frigates: +7


 * Corvettes: +5

Chance: Chance will be calculated as such. The last number of each player's edit count will be divided by 3.14 and then multiplied by 2. This will allow for a random enough number. in the case of Decimals we will always round down.
 * Fleets, and Battlegroups cannot be exceedingly huge in this era. Realistically you cannot be fielding fleets in the hundreds against eachother effectively. Effective combat sizes are fleets between 20-50 and battlegroups from about 3-20 ships.In order for an allied fleet to come an assist it must be within a relatively close distance and cannot be coming from across the planet to aid. Fleet actions were mostly decided within a day or two and in most cases less. Hence a fleet must be within a week's travel of the decisive engagement

Total: 

Casualties: Casualties will be handled as such. the Differential between the total scores on both sides will be multiplied by a number of pure chance (either rng or edit count determined) after dividing from the total troop number which participated in the assault.

Ex) differential = 50

Determined chance = 2

Total Force = 50,00050,000/100 = 5000 casualties.

Note: chance only applies in a war of positions, and trench warfare. The Algo will be reworked post 1920 to reflect the change in warfare tactics.

Quality
Tier 1:
 * United States of Ameirca
 * Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
 * Federation of the Americas
 * French Republic
 * United Kingdom
 * Second Mexican Empire

Tier 2:
 * Canadian Federation
 * Australian Commonwealth
 * Union of South Africa
 * Italy
 * Spain
 * Netherlands
 * West Germany
 * East Germany
 * Portugal
 * Poland
 * Switzerland

Tier 3:
 * Austria
 * Czechoslovakia
 * Hungary
 * Romainia
 * Yugoslavia
 * Korea
 * Japan
 * Philippines
 * Finland
 * Saudi Arabia
 * North Vietnam

Tier 4:
 * Bulgaria
 * Federation of India
 * Greece
 * Norway
 * Sweden
 * Denmark
 * Greenland
 * Empire of Ethiopia
 * French Colonies
 * British Colonies
 * Portuguese Colonies
 * Spanish colonies

Tier 5:
 * Siam
 * Iran
 * Turkey
 * Kurdistan
 * Greenland

Tier 6:
 * Afganistan
 * Tibet

Quantity
Tier 1:
 * United States of America: 140,320,165
 * Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: 165,543,667
 * Federation of the Americas: 136,235,786
 * Republic of China: 547,432,117 (about 100 million people are debatably within the PRC's Sphere)
 * Peoples Republic of China: 103,445,098 (fluctuating borders change population regularly)
 * Federation of India: 349,390,006

Tier 2:
 * French Republic: 105,625,887 (includes colonial population.
 * United Kingdom: 173,234,598 (this includes colonial population)
 * Kingdom of Italy: 46,765,982
 * West Germany: 48,834,223

Tier 3:
 * Poland: 25,445,832
 * East Germany: 16,775,831 (contingent on USSR support)
 * Netherlands: 17,117,325
 * Portugal: 8,700,665 (Result of her colonial history)
 * Spain: 27,445,327
 * Czechoslovakia: 13,445,673 (Contingent on USSR Support
 * Union of South Africa: 16,334,175
 * Siam: 18,509,131
 * Romainia: 15,713,034
 * North Vietnam: 13,774,123

Tier 4:
 * Norway: 3,223,437
 * Sweden: 6,945,772
 * Denmark: 4,123,977
 * Australian Commonwealth: 9,143,781
 * Bulgaria: 7,892,103
 * Austria: 6,989,564
 * Hungary: 9,134,788
 * Finland: 3,934,123

Tier 5:
 * Yugoslavia: 6,345,775
 * Austria: 6,834,761
 * Tibet: 3,231,165
 * Switzerland: 4,875,555
 * Saudi Arabia 3,123,445

Tier 6:
 * Greenland: 32,123
 * Albania: 1,117,342

In most instances until independence colonies will rely on their whole population(mother country) to make/wage war and will be counted as such.

quantity and Quality will be averaged if both military powers decide to fight together in a singular offensive and only then. If both powers decide to make seperate offensives on the same front this will not be taken into account.

Question about Quantity
Why is the UK on tier 2 if it has more people that the USA? OMGdidiwin  00:29, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

The colonial powers are drawing from a somewhat unwilling colonial populace thats why

Okay thank you. ^-^ OMGdidiwin

A Missing Nation
I just wanted to inform you that there is no Republic of Ireland in the list of nations for the map game. OMGdidiwin  20:19, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

too late to sign up?
if not can I be the New Hebredies Condominium? They were joinly governed by the french and english. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hebrides  Jbwncster (talk) 18:37, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

ASB
Due to the implausible premise of the game I have officially labeled the game as ASB. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions.

Your friendly neighborhood LT, PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)