Talk:1983: Doomsday/Culture 2

status of historical artifacts and monuments
Doomsday certainly destroyed countless of these, so whats left? --User:WAJJER--WAJJER 01:28, December 13, 2009

no structures survived in Europe or North America but i remember a tv show frome the 1990s caled Buck Rogers in the 25th century which was set long after a nuclear war and it stated Mount rushmore survived so I guess it survived in this OTL--Owen1983 21:57, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Rushmore survived the war, but was defaced later during the violent period of Sioux nationalism. Benkarnell 22:03, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

I think what you just described can be described as a war crime. And why on earth would the want to deface it? They have the huge statue of Crazy Horse, so they should be happy. I think we should have them intent to deface the monument, only to get twarted at the last minute. --Yankovic270 22:37, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Any historical monuments in West Virginia? Because they would survive Doomsday reletively easily. --Yankovic270 22:37, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * The Black Hills are just about the most sacred place in the world in traditional Sioux culture, and many Sioux see Mt. Rushmore as an unconscionable, if not downright insulting, scar on them - and that's *here*, not *there*, where there was a radical, militant, nationalistic movement that took hold among the tribe. There was a huge protest at the mountain in 1971 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Rushmore#Controversy).  And Crazy Horse is (1) unfinished even today, and (2) opposed by many for the same reason they oppose Rushmore.  I would imagine that destroying Rushmore would symbolically show the Sioux nationalists' victory over the successors of the US and their purging of their new country of all US ifluence.  It's kind of like the Taliban destroying those Buddhas.  I'd imagine that the Lakotah Republic would have apologized for such an act, though, once moderates were in power and seeking to join the North American Union.  Benkarnell 22:54, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

I would hunt down those responsible, try them and summarily execute them. I doubt there is a citizen in any of the American survivors states whose blood wouldn't boil over this atrocity. Hell, there might be a backlash against Native Americans. Scratch that. There will be a backlash on Native Americans. I could see mobs of angry citizens lynching any aboringinal they can find, and destroying all they own. Even will the apology, I doubt the ill will caused by this atrocity will go away any time soon. It is harsh, but pretty much any American I know whould be absolutely furious if anything happened to Mount Rushmore. I see the Virginian Republic expelling any aboriginals in its territory over this outrage. --Yankovic270 23:08, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

I am not american but I think Mount Rushmore is a very inportent monuman to US history and ensuring there survival will preserve the past IMHO I would like to see Mount Rushmore preserved as a LoN world heratige site--Owen1983 23:17, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yankovic - this isn't real. Benkarnell 00:40, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Aren't you Canadian? Mr.Xeight 00:53, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but it doesn't take an american to see that the sculpture at Mount Rushmore is as much a beloved symbol of America as the Statue of Liberty. Think of it this way. You are an American lets say, and someone defaced Mount Rushmore with graffiti or explosives. You would probbably be angry. If such an attack would happen in real life most Americans would be furious. I imagine the reaction would be the same in the 1983:Doomsday timeline. Yankovic270 01:36, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you are overreacting Yank. Maybe OTL if someone destroyed Mt. Rushmore people would be upset, but would there be a huge backlash against Native Americans?  No.  Look at 9/11, probably the greatest tragedy in American history.  Was every single Muslim American rounded up into camps or did the streets run red with Arab blood?  No.  Was there some violence, yes but all things considered it certainly wasn't as bad as, lets say, what happened to the Sikhs when Indira Gandhi was killed in 1984.  I believe over 3000 people died.  Americans just aren't like that except for those few ignorant white trash yokels.  I don't think you truly understand the American mindset.
 * As for this ATL, consider this Yank, why should anyone care? If the Lakota do destroy the monument it could take years for the majority of Americans to find out.  Only the people of the PUSA would know about right away, but they would be enemies anyway so they have other reasons to hate them.  Furthermore there are a lot of American survivor states that don't even see themselves as Americans anymore (like the MSP), would the destruction of the monument really effect them?  Also there are Americans who have been born since DD who probably have never even seen pictures of the place, how could they get an attachment to it?  And why would all Native Americans be helpless?  Many reservations are away from targets and would have access to farmland and other necessities.  If anything they most Indians would be better off then non-Indians in North America.
 * It just seems odd that an ethinic American upon finding out the monument was destroyed would go psycho and kill the first Native American they see. Also compare the destruction of the monument to DD itself.  If Americans would go nutso on some Indians for blowing up some stones, what would they do to a citizen Socialist Siberia, the successor state to the USSR?  Mitro 05:08, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

We haven't even established any fate for Mount Rushmore, much less its destruction. And how would you, in a post-WWIII world, destroy or even deface the monument? That would have to be a pretty massive undertaking, and you'd pretty much be the only ones to know about it. I'd like to hear a realistic explanation of why, and how, Mt. Rushmore would be destroyed...if it's determined it wasn't, then Owen's idea of making it an LoN world heritage site is an excellent idea.--BrianD 06:31, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Now I'm no expert on blowing up monuments, but wouldn't conventional explosives, maybe dynamite used by firefighters and construction workers, be enough to damage the monument? Mitro 13:49, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Its possible the Statue of Liberty survived. Although it would be damaged. Most Berlin landmarks survived, I would guess the Pyramids would survive as well, they would be far enough away to escape with only superficial damage. Keep in mind that a lot of the suburban areas of major cities would survive mostly intact, while the fallout would push the population away or kill them, so any landmarks in the suburban areas of major cities would likely survive.--Oerwinde 07:58, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I think both Americans and Native Americans would be outraged i can imagine the culprits being tried and sentaced to hard labor reparing the damage they caused--Owen1983 18:37, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, why would they be punished? As Ben pointed out a lot of Native Americans don't like the monument to begin with.  Furthermore I doubt a sovereign nation is going to turn over its citizens to be tried for doing something that said nation probably approved of when it happened.  As for other Americans, why should they care?  Consider the Americans in Australia who integrated into Australian culture or the survivor states that have established new identities.  Why would they care?  Mitro 18:45, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

As major cites have been destroyed, major artifacts are now lost. so local museums, like my local bassetlaw museum, could have surived in the UK and in other nations. but due the chaos, they would be ransacked (remember what happened in Iraq after the invasion). also being used: in my museum a 5th century log boat would be used as firewood for any survivors, or using old farm tools. In the UK, Stonehenge could survive with some cathderals; Ely, Lincoln (?), Peterbrough. I'm only mentioning this as the 'Rushmoore argument' and others focuse on America. It is fine discussing about it, but I would like some discussions on a much, broader scope. This does sound like univeristy speack, since i am a student. --WAJJER 19:13, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with walker I think we are ignoring the topic becuse people are focusing on America

I'd imagine the artifacts in Berlin would take on increased value. The Berlin Wall might be a major historic site. Obviously as Switzerland was not attacked the museums and artifacts there would have survived. Same for South America. Perhaps the Great Wall of China as well? And, I'm wondering if it is possible that something survived in the ruins of the Vatican in Rome, perhaps in some kind of underground chamber?--BrianD 23:30, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I apologize for my behavior.I was reacting based on personal feelings. You see, one year me and my familiy went on a vacation to South Dakota, and we visited Mount Rushmore. It just became a cherished memory of mine. Everyone has an event,person or item that fills a special place in his or her heart. The sight of Mount Rushmore in the rain, looking like they were crying. That was, and is one of my most cherished memories. Yankovic270 01:49, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

so was Mount Rushmore destroyed? the NAU PAGE SAYS IT WAS. --HAD 13:45, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I added that, it just seemed like something they would do. Maybe they wouldn't be able to "destroy" the entire monument, but they probably deface it enough.  Mitro 00:05, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

There's a Confederate version of Rushmore in Atlanta. Any speculations as to what might have happened to that? Mr.Xeight 04:33, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Stone Mountain, Georgia. It may have survived the nukes.--BrianD 04:46, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Stone Mountain monument and park are only 14.5 miles east by northeast (74 degrees) from downtown Atlanta. However, it is a monument much larger than Rushmore, made out of granite.  It also has its "back" to Atlanta (or at least its side turned slightly away.  Though the fireball of a large nuclear blast would certainly burn all the buildings and most of the vegetation in the park, the monument would stand.  Unless the shock wave shook the earth enough to cause major seismic activity, then we can't be sure.  It is most certainly closer to a blast than Rushmore would have been.  Vandals, though, would have a harder time at getting to the sculpture, and it is not on "holy ground."


 * By the way, the sculpture who designed Rushmore had first been commissioned to start on Stone Mountain, but broke his contract. He was on the run from the authorities in Georgia when he agreed to do work on Mt. Rushmore! --SouthWriter 05:25, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

So South you are saying that Mount Rushmore is safe from both the event of Doomsday and the people after it? --Yankovic270 16:48, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was commenting on Stone Mountain. If you are referring to that, yes, the monument at Stone Mountain probably survived and was not accessible to vandalism. --SouthWriter 19:50, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

What would happen to the ceramic plates inscribed the important documents of America (the contistitution, Bill of Rights) that are in a time capsule behind mount Rushmore? --Yankovic270 16:48, January 11, 2010 (UTC)