Forum:We Changed it in the Twelfth Century

Ok, just listen. Switch Canada and America with Japan and China and get an Earlier Napoleon (just for fun *) )

title: We Changed It In The Twelfth Century

POD? North ‘Atlantis’ in Great Lakes and New York region, native nations rose ~1500’s, building up populations and contributing to continent-wide population increases, various coherent native civilisations develop, fight, strengthen, greater use of the wheel, heavy ploughs invented and potatoes arrive from the far south after years of growing trade with the Mesoamerican civilisation and others. Diseases spread and harden populations.

POD2? Black Death has a significantly larger impact in east Asia esp. India, Japan, and China (J and C hit worse than India)

A single family in England is spared death by the Great Plague as they moved to France from England. The Latrines… and so Europe’s fate was sealed.

China and Japan, not India, will be largely colonised by England.

Portugal independant

France becomes Troisième Empire/ Third empire/Rome->Byz->Rome


 * 3E fights Ottomans a lot
 * Controls West Africa (used to have Egypt but Ottoman attacks and uprisings remove it at some point)
 * Still Christian
 * Explanation: 3E formed by Nattileo Latrine, a noble of relatively good pedigree, super charisma, dirt in any way can’t seem to stick to him.
 * Remade the Roman Empire, the initiative to look for a Western route to Asia not mainstream b/c it had Egypt or at least Suez access for a while, only real interest in North Atlantis once the Ottomans undeniably secured Suez control-England knew of NA some time b/f the 3E but was already interested in colonising Asia.
 * Nattileo Latrine, one of Joan of Arc’s generals, almost single-handedly brought the success needed to expediantly and fully dislodge Eng from France (added such things as Welsh longbows(a la Hail Mighty Joan)), had slightly greater popularity than Joan because he’s a guy but Joan had King Charles’ ear.

After the Century War:

Joan of Arc and Charles call the war won when England is removed from France, but Nattileo Latrine implored that they continue the war and go on to recreate the Roman Empire, he is stiffly rebuffed, neither Joan nor Charles wanted anything to do with it as he called for violent and uncalled for invasions of catholic nations.

With intrigue and lies, Nattileo Latrine has both Joan and Charles ambushed and killed on their way back to Paris after negotiations in England. Several strong people in line for power also go missing. After attaining clergy and military support in France with additional irresistible charisma, ASBs?, actions, and speeches, and with minuscule suspect of his evilness, Nattileo Latrine is declared King of France. ‘Evidence’ of assassinations lead directly to HRE Emperor ___ and some of his nobles. Nattileo Latrine, over couple years, convinced the Papacy to denounce the HRE, while additional intrigue causes greater rebellions in HRE and heresy events, weakening the Holy Emperor's prestige. HRE emperor and accused nobles declare adamantly their innocence, compound civil war and rebellion.

Papal excommunication when it comes is the final straw, wide-spread rebellions and resistance in HRE, Nattileo Latrine starts his 'Holy mission' to bring the Germanic people back under a united Catholic leadership.

Declares his intention to reunite the Papal states, France, and the HRE into the Troisième Empire. He is declared its first emperor by the Pope, changing his name to Romain Latrine. Paris and Rome are made sister cities, equal in importance to the Empire. HRE is largely conquered; multiple city-states are granted vassal status directly to the empire, avoiding a German confederation, to keep things unilateral. Papacy slowly subjugated and cowed by Latrine and his closest associates/institutions(?), successors have to be approved by Pope and cardinal assembly, but always the son and grandchildren of Latrine.

Latrine successior’s primary tutors are the previous associates of the Latrine. In tradition soon before death, the associates’ positions as tutors or just governors are solidified by the emperor. Only causes problems after a couple centuries, originally the associates are all quite loyal and cooperative.

Decades (1450-1600) of solidification and sometimes expansion (making vassals, staging (dangerously) unpopular wars against catholic England fail and are abandoned, popular wars against Ottomans and Moslems; at first pushing the Ottomans back to Constantinople but usually stalemating; (an exception to the stalemates: the incredibly successful ‘__ Crusade’ in 1515 to capture Egypt and destroy the Egyptian Sultanate) consume the empire’s attentions. Successors try to reconcile the rift between Catholics and Orthodoxy.  No initiative to look for a new world.  Most Emperors were fixated on stopping the chaos within the empire and converting the Moslems in Europe.

vassals-German Kingdoms, Hispania, Poland, Hungaria

No war with Russia during 3E’s formation.

Early 1600’s Europe begins settling, new governing practices and strong emperors aide stability and national unity; 3E realises the head start England and Portugal have in the world colonialism (over 50 years).

1612, 3E armies, merchants, missionaries, etc. begin entering and conquering India, something the British had continuously failed-it was a critical point as several weak Indian leaders rose to power. 1620’s 3E conquerings of virtually all South Atlantis. North Atlantis colonised later (16-1800’s) first discovered by England 1563 but it was more interested in Asia still. large colonisation of Sina and Nipon.

British Empire

1610’s Successful invasions and playing off native political entities in Mexico (name?), the Aztecs are fractured at this time but resistant. By late 1700’s virtually all of Mexico is controlled by England.
 * Later, a religious reformation (name?) in England is not fully accepted in the Atlantis colonies, causing religious friction between [reformed] North Mexico and Catholic south Mexico/South Atlantis (where the 3E operates)

Empire of the Great Manitou based in the Great Lakes
 * possibly territory: parts of OTL Oregon, and the old North-West Territory, most of Alaska.

1780’s- rebellions in Sina against British Empire- costly success and the declaration of the United States of Sina. President George Washington Bush given great power-making the loyalists still living there furious, a monarchy later develops and suffers from poor popularity.

1810’s-USS tries and fails to invade British Nipon, formation of Dominion of Nipon, uniting all British colonies on those islands.

1905-failed Russian war against the Empire of the Great Manitou.

WWI

Background: by 1900’s, 3E has lost most of South Atlantis to revolutionaries and rebellions, feels exasperated by Portugal/British seizures of 3E ships and communications crossing the Atlantic; most Asian and Sub-Saharan African colonies have been retained despite the blockade and inaccessibility of Suez.

Britain, Portugal, Russia, ~and Ottomans (Ottomans also fighting Russia over Black Sea and Caucus) Vs. 3E and its allies/vassals.

Scandinavia not involved in the war.

More enthusiastic and sooner involvement by USS in WWI on the side of the British. Initiated b/c of president's aspiration for world recognition, but generals sent do a poor job; more casualties, more war weariness, president saw frontlines firsthand and was scarred- led to isolationism started by that president and it eventually became a national policy.

Southern Front: Ottomans conquer most of Greece, Bulgaria; parts of Serbia and Romania.

Eastern Front: Lenin type revolutionary (Unionist movement) sent to destabilise Russia, Russian defeats by both 3E and Ottomans

Western Front: British landings in France defeated, most of Hispania liberated and made independent. All of 3E west Africa to Portugal.

End of WWI results?

Republic of Atlantis (history unformed)-south of Empire of the Great Manitou suffers national collapse in the 30’s

Influenza epidemic makes RoA states close their borders
 * national polarisation over prohibition
 * with national break up, roads and rails fall into dis-repair

Empire of the Great Manitou stays together through fascism and various national programmes.

Empire of the Great Manitou invades RoA and others in WW2.

Empire of the Great Manitou occupied by USS after WW2.

1961-5 United States of Sina civil unrest and rebellions over unionists from Russia and Republicans at home. War is successfully ended by the federal gov.

The list for historic parallels

Canada=Empire of the Great Manitou

US=Republic of Atlantis

Japan= Dominion of Nipon

China=United States of Sina

New England=Manchuria

Maine=Korea

Utah=Tibet

Montana=Mongolia

Florida=Burma

New Orleans=Hong Kong

Cuba=Indonesia

Brazil=Australia (in behaviour)

Mexico=India

Taiwan=Nantucket

Newfoundland=Hokkaido

Nova Scotia=Kyushu

PEI=Shikoku

North America=Atlantis

Yucatan=Bangladesh

South California=Kashmir

Sikhote=Oregon

Sri Lanka=Puerto Rico

N Venezuela/Colombia=Malaysia

Bahamas=Philippines

Indochina=Texas

Don't hate the poor timeline design practices :/. For now, it is very on hold but if someone has the wow please take it and run. --TEAKAY 19:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)