Talk:Canada (1983: Doomsday)

I thought the capital of canada was up north in nunavut.--Marcpasquin 13:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Was it? I don’t remember the timeline saying anywhere what Canada’s new capitol would be so I just picked one that would probably have survived a Nuclear War. If the capitol is in Nunavut than you can change it to Iqaluit.--ShutUpNavi 14:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that it's established that the Canadian remnant is a good deal smaller & less powerful than suggested here. A still-powerful Canada would change the dynamics of the world pretty drastically.  Benkarnell 15:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As I have suggested on another page, there might be a slew of regional governments in canada with great autonomy, some acknowledge Iqaluit (if only through lip service) while other maintain their sovereignty.


 * I think their need to be a clear distinction made between what is *claimed* by the government of Canada and what is actualy under its control.--Marcpasquin 16:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I’m not suggesting that Canada should play a major role in the timeline; in fact the only thing thats left of Canada is the Maritime Provinces, the three territories in the north, and maybe the extreme northern parts of the main Provinces in the south. All of them are going to do little more than provide food, water, and some shelter so the people don’t starve (everyone that is not in these areas however will). Fredericton is in no way a big powerful city. In 1980 it had less than 45,000 people, and a decreasing economy.--ShutUpNavi 16:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the population though I think I have got it too high. Since 95% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US I obviously overestimated it. I will try and get it back down to a reasonable level.--ShutUpNavi 18:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Canadian, here. Canada's capital is Ottawa, in Ontario. Like most major Canadian cities, it is near the US. It would probably be destroyed. Personally, I think Toronto, Vancouver, and Winnipeg would also be destroyed. Not sure why Quebec and Montreal would be spared though. Also, why is the currency listed as the Franc? The Quebequois don't use francs, they use Canadian Dollars like the rest of us. DarthEinstein 19:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The "quebec-centric" aspect of this article was a change brought on by anonymous user 84.68.164.4 back in february. I guess no one notice since. As for the Franc, that denomination was not even used in colonial time (it was the "livre") so I dont see why canada, even a mostly francophone one, would use it--Marcpasquin 20:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This article doesn't flow with the TL's info on Canada, it may need some overhaul. I'm going to list it as contradictory for the time being.  Mitro 20:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Which parts don't mesh with the rest of the TL? DarthEinstein 20:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well first certain cities survived destruction despite being destroyed in this TL (see first map). Also there is no mention of the "Canada Remainder Provinces" as the remnants of Canada are referred to throughout the TL.  Next, in a lot of articles the only provinces that survived were Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and Nunavut (located around Iqualuit).  As Marc said above also, the "quebic-centric" parts are not currently canon.  Also the Canadian government is at Halifax.
 * While new things may be added and some minor details may be changed, due to this TL's size and # of editors, we should be wary to make major changes to the canon on a minor articles or else find ourselves making massive changes across a host of articles. The fact that Quebec and Edmonton survived seem to me to not be meeting the general apocalyptic theme of the TL and is a major contradiction to the current canon on Canada.
 * I'm actually surprised Prince Edwards Island didn't survive, that may need to be addressed. Mitro 21:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually looking at the map Halifax was hit, that may be a problem. Mitro 22:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Alright then, so I'll list the surviving major cities according to the map: Look again, I think Edmonton got hit. And PEI seems not to have been hit.
 * Quebec
 * Victoria
 * Iqaluit
 * Yellowknife
 * Whitehorse
 * Fredericton
 * Charlottetown
 * St. John's

So say that the western provinces separate/descend into anarchy, as well as southern Ontario. Then Nova Scotia (what's left), New Brunswick, PEI, Quebec, Newfoundland/Labrador and the territories create the Canadian Remainder Provinces, with Quebec annexing part of Northern Ontario. The capital would most likely be Fredricton, as New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province. DarthEinstein 22:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think from the map that its pretty obvious that Quebec was hit if you compare the nuke strike map with a map of Canada. Its also seems most likely that Quebec would have been hit during WWIII. Also I don't believe I ever said Edmonton was not hit or that PEI was, in fact I expressed confusion that PEI has not been mention. Mitro 22:37, 7 June 2
 * Oh, you're right, Quebec was hit. According to the map, PEI was not hit, and Edmonton was. Still, what's left of Quebec province (Sherbrooke wasn't nuked) and the other survivers could create the Canadian Remainder Provinces with Fredericton as capital.DarthEinstein 22:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I forgot about New Brunswick, though I'm worried about their close proximity to the Quebec City – Windsor Corridor and New England and whether the province would be overwhelmed by refugees. I will need to do more research on that.  Mitro 03:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a question, dose Labrador survive or is it just Newfoundland itself? If so could Nord-du-Québec survive as well? And what happened to the Yukon? Is it still independent or did it join up with Nunavut/Northwest Territories?--ShutUpNavi 14:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Labrador would survive as well, which means I can’t think of any reason why Northern Quebec wouldn’t be a part of the Canada Remainder Provinces from the beginning. They may need to be edited in.  Nunavut, however, is really only confined to the area around Iqaluit and I think the farther west you go the less likely the CRP is going to be able to exert control.  The survivor communities in Yukon are on their own, though they may have some relationship with Australian Alaska.  Mitro 17:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Prime Minister after Doomsday
Brian Mulroney was an MP for Nova Scotia at the time of DD. Wouldn't he have been killed when Ottawa was destroyed? I don't think it would be plausible that he would be the new PM. Mitro 15:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, who would you suggest? DarthEinstein 15:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well since it would be the provincial/territorial governments that would meet and restart the government, it would be someone from that system who would get the job. I would suggest Jim Lee, the premier of PEI at the time of DD.  He seems the most logical choice.  Mitro 15:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If the capital is St. John's maybe it should be the Premier of Newfoundland at the time (Brian Peckford).DarthEinstein 19:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but the provinces might have wanted to split power so one province doesn’t dominate the other. My guess is they would compromise with one province getting the capitol and the other getting the Prime Minister.  Mitro 19:35, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

a map by --Fero 19:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait, why is New Brunswick not part of the Remainder Provinces? According to the map, it wasn't nuked. Is it because it is flooded with refugees or something?

As for the PM, I think Jim Lee could be a temporary replacement, but soon the Remainder Provinces would have to elect a new one as he was not elected by the whole populace, only PEI. DarthEinstein 19:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Despite not being nuked my research has shown me that its proximity to major population centers will at least turn the southern portion of the province into a state of anarchy, with the possibility of some self-sufficient communities in the north.


 * I like the idea of a temporary government until and election can be held, how long do you think the situation would last? Mitro 20:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, so New Brunswick is not in the Remainder Provinces for now.

I think anywhere from ... 6 months to a year? What do you think? Also we'll have to decide who wins the election. James Lee could be the Progressive Conservative candidate, or he might decide to only be a replacement and continue as Premier. DarthEinstein 20:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I will need time to think, either way we have the foundation started for Prime Ministers of Canada (1983: Doomsday). Mitro 20:26, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i am doing a new version of canada map, without the untimed (1983) Nuvatutlet my some minutes, thank you--Fero 20:18, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I found some people who could be in the election:


 * Joe Ghiz: OTL, he was Premier of PEI after Lee. Liberal Party
 * Clyde Wells: OTL, Premier of Newfoundland&Labrador sometime after TTL Doomsday. Liberal Party
 * Joey Smallwood: Brought Newfoundland&Labrador into Confederation, was Premier for over twenty years. Quit politics several years before Doomsday, but he could return. Liberal Party.
 * Frank Moore: Newfoundland&Labrador Premier after Smallwood. Resigned, but again could return. Progressive Conservative Party
 * Angus MacLean: Premier of PEI before Lee. Could return. Progressive Conservative Party.
 * Lastly, James Lee: Premier of PEI on Doomsday, who (TTL) becomes temporary Prime Minister.

What do you think? DarthEinstein 20:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Canada+Siberia
The survivalist Canada is similar to the survivalist Siberia. Maybe there should be some kind of union between them, the Arctic Cooperation Council or something. Probably with the Nordic Union being another member. — Hellerick 04:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...interesting. What would be the catalyst for souch an organization?  Would Alaska be involved at all?  Mitro 14:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Quebec
This is the first chance I've had to read the updated Canada page, and I like it very much. One thing about Quebec: this page says that the province was simply absorbed into Newfoundland, but Marc's page says that there's a Quebec provincial government based at Gaspe. I'm inclined to think that even if Newfoundland took over Quebec initially, eventually a government would have been restored to the province once things got a little more settled. [Note: the Saguenay page also hints that the Remainder Provinces claim all of Canada and have what might be called a bad attitude toward local independence movements like Saguenay. Personally, I like that wrinkle a lot, and think it could lead to some interesting storylines. ] Benkarnell 18:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually only Anticosti island was absorbed into Newfoundland, not the entire province of Quebec. As for Marc’s Saguenay, it was created after I made most of the changes to the Canada article and I haven’t had the chance to update it.  Not sure about everything I want to do with Saguenay, though I’m think of some border conflicts and a conference of the Canadian survivor nations where Saguenay is not invited.  I also want to add SUN’s suggestion of northern Quebec being a part of the Remainder Provinces as well.  Mitro 18:06, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason why Anticosti Island is absorbed into Newfoundland, not PEI? Cause PEI is closer. DarthEinstein 19:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Judging from the map they both seem to be the same distance from each other. I don’t think it matters now though, the situation in Quebec is in flux at the moment and the island probably wouldn’t be separated. Mitro 20:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Governor-General
What if the Governor-General dies before choosing a successor, how is the new Governor-General chosen? Mitro 20:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What I was thinking was that there would be a sort of "Deputy Governor General", who was appointed when the Goveror General takes his/her position. When the GG dies or abdicates, the Deputy GG becomes the new GG and appoints a new Deputy GG. DarthEinstein 16:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Mitro 16:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

GG is appointed by the monarch on advice of the Prime Minister. In practice this means the Prime Minister chooses the GG--Oerwinde 09:58, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, Oerwinde - I know that. But Canada in this Timeline changed that so that it would be more non-partisan. --DarthEinstein 16:21, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Happy Graduation
Canada is now canon, yay! Mitro 12:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hurrah! So can we still add things to it? DarthEinstein 14:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, it now just means that the idea has been accepted by the community at large. See the Editorial Guidelines (1983: Doomsday) for more info.  Mitro 14:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Nouveau Quebec
As it is mainly inhabited by natives, the province would have probably been renamed Nunavik as it did *here*.--Marcpasquin 17:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm according to Wikipedia only the northernmost section is Nunavik, and I can't find a name that it had before the 50s other than Nunavik. Nouveau Quebec encompasses Nunavik and Jamesie, which is to the east of St. James bay. Maybe Nouveau Quebec should join Nunavut? DarthEinstein 17:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Map
I like the map, though I wonder if Nova Scotia has some claimed-only territory because of the bomb that went off on Halifax. Mitro 17:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC) I like the map so far. However if Canada can govern Navanut could they also control areas on the Hudson Bay coast? Especaly around the port of Churchill. After all these places can usualy be reached by sea or air,so there is little chance of refugies destableiseing the region.--ShutUpNavi 03:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Possible, though it did become a province in 2006, and with ships it would be easy to get to different parts of Nova Scotia. DarthEinstein 17:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm good point. I think they'd want to govern those areas as part of Nunavut until they had a significant population though, except on the Quebec coast which would be governed as Nouveau Quebec. I'll add that to the map. DarthEinstein 03:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Consolidation
I think we need to consolidate on the subheadings. Mitro 23:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah. Okay then, how many years per subheading?DarthEinstein 00:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever seems most logical depending on the subject. I do like though how the TOC has pushed main content down away from the nation profile though.  Sorry but I can be annoying about format, its what I do all day at work.  Mitro 00:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There, I've consolidated it a bit. Don't worry about the amount of info in the last four subheadings, I'll get to them eventually. DarthEinstein 00:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

NorthEast USA?
Maine and around become Canada territory or something? i think is posible, reasonable. Is somebody live at south of the frontier? or in south cost of the lakes? --Fero 01:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think sometime soon a New Brunswick/Maine provincial governement might be established. However Canada's border hasn't reached the Great Lakes yet, so south of the lakes isn't likely right now. DarthEinstein 01:38, 25

June 2009 (UTC

Saguenay connection to gangs
I didn't create the saguenay republic for it to become the evil nemesis of Canada. For one thing, they are isolationist and would have nothing to gain from aiding the gangs of southern quebec.--Marcpasquin 13:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They have protection to gain; they border the gangs too. Besides, these are only allegations. Also, it's natural that the two would come into conflict, as Canada claims all of Quebec, including Saguenay. DarthEinstein 13:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with a conflict between the two, either overt or covert. What I don't want is for one side to become the "evil one" which in my view would diminish the realistic nature of the conflict.--Marcpasquin 14:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't worry; I'll make sure they're portrayed fairly. DarthEinstein 04:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Population
Why are you raising Canada's population? Considering their position, and the loss of Sagneuney, they were fine were they were.

I was adding things up, and I decided that the previous number was a bit short. *Here*, Newfoundland = 500 000, Nova Scotia = 900 000, PEI = 150 000 to a total of 1 550 000. Of course, it's not that much in a post apocolyptic world, but that's only three of the provinces, so adding the regions of Quebec and Nunavut within this Canada and refugee populations, I think that 1.1 million is closer than 0.7 million. Also, due to foreign trade, they probably have better medical equipment than the rest of North America. --DarthEinstein 04:22, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Reorganisation of provinces
After the war with Saguenay, I was planning on changing the provinces in Canada. What would happen is this:
 * The Capital would be moved into a Federal Region centred around a city on the west coast of Newfoundland.
 * Nouveau-Quebec would be combined with Nunavut, as both have low population with lots of First Nations.
 * PEI and Nova Scotia merge to form a Maritime province, which also includes controlled parts of former New Brunswick.
 * Quebec is unchanged; though depending on what happens it may expand into the St. Lawrence.
 * The Hudson Bay region, which is under control but not really part of any province, is organised into the territory of Hudson (capital Churchill). It is not a province, it is a territory and is seen as an interim government awaiting control of more of Ontario (evidently not the Superiorian parts, as they will likely be formally ceded by treaty).

Also, if Aroostook joins, then it will get inland parts of New Brunswick, while the Maritime Province would get the coast. --DarthEinstein 22:20, September 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * The only thing I don't like is Aroostook joining Canada. Being an American, I don't enjoy seeing it be absorbed by the Canadians, and especially as a New Englander. Lahbas 01:24, October 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * I did say if. I realise that as an American, you would not like Aroostook to join Canada, but your own Superior is getting Canada to release claims on parts of former Canada! Seems a tad hypocritical.--DarthEinstein 01:43, October 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * I know. Just my nationalism getting in the way I guess. :) Lahbas 01:56, October 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem. --DarthEinstein 02:00, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Remember when the "people" of Bermuda voted for a new flag? Except it was all the editors working on the TL who voted as the "people of Bermuda." Maybe something can be done similar to Aroostook since it has been mentioned before that they might hold a referendum on the issue and Aroostook is going to be a lot more pro-Canada after the war. Mitro 02:04, October 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * I won't argue that they are Pro-Canadian, but they "were" friends of Superior before the war. Time will mend that realtionship. The only problem I see is that, despite being Pro-Canadian, it is different then actually wanting to Join Canada. I don't see a majority of people wanting to actually annex themselves as a province of Canada, though it could be a pretty sizable minority (possibly around 38-44%). Again, probably my nationalism getting in the way, by this is how I see the situation realistically as well. Lahbas 03:13, October 1, 2009 (UTC)