Talk:Triple Entente vs. Central Powers (Map Game)

WIPED AND ARCHIVED. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:56, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Location

 * Capital City - +9
 * Major City - +7
 * Inside the Country - +5
 * In a country near yours - +3
 * In a country bordering the same sea as yours - +2
 * In a country on the other side of a continent or on another distant continent - -2

Motive

 * Sake of the Country - +10
 * Moral Reasoning (e.g. Stopping a genocide) - +8
 * Irredentist/Ethnic Agenda - + 7
 * Religion ("Crusade" or "Jihad") - +6
 * Political Reason - +5
 * Economic Reason - +4

Technology Milestones

 * Machine Gun - +1
 * Airplanes - +2
 * Railroad Artillery - +2
 * Bombers - +3
 * Tanks - +4
 * Mechanical Rockets - +5

Fronts

 * Two fronts - -2
 * Three fronts - -4
 * Four Fronts - -8
 * ETC.

Allies in the Fight
Only one of this is applied, you will not get two bonuses even if your ally is doing both.
 * Every Ally contributing soldiers or armed vehicles - +4
 * Every Ally contributing recon and non-lethal aid - +2

Location
Based on shortest possible sea route, taking into account blockades, etc.

One of: Any of:
 * Next to homeland: 5
 * Next to captured area or close to homeland: 4
 * Close to captured area or far from homeland: 3
 * Far from captured area or halfway around the world from homeland: 2
 * No where close to any territory: 1
 * -3: For every blockade needing to be crossed

Tactical
One of: Any of:
 * Defender: 2
 * Surprise attack: 2
 * Every sea battle won this turn: -1
 * Every sea battle lost this turn: -2

Strength
One of: One of:
 * Large Navy: 3
 * Medium Navy: 2
 * Small Navy: 1
 * Fully Modern: 2
 * Partially Modern: 1

Motive
One of:
 * Sake of the Country - +10
 * Moral Reasoning (e.g. Stopping a genocide) - +8
 * Irredentist/Ethnic Agenda - + 7
 * Religion ("Crusade" or "Jihad") - +6
 * Political Reason - +5
 * Economic Reason - +4

Technology
Any of:
 * Radio: 1
 * Airplanes: 1
 * Modern Battleships: 3
 * Submarines: 2
 * Bombers: 2
 * Aircraft Carriers: 4

Secondary Nations
Any of:
 * Participation: 3
 * Some Millitary: 2
 * Supplies: 1

Discussion
Well, here's my attempt at a algorithm. I searched around and could not find a precedent.

Very good job. We shall use it here and everywhere! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:28, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

It's pretty good, I just think that a few changes might be needed to match up with the land one, which I will make in a few minutes. Monster Pumpkin 02:38, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Technology Milestones
The Algorithms above will incorporate Technology Milestones as a way of determining the country's current techology level. Technology Milestones can be traded, stolen, sold, given, or even lost. Use them wisely. Once you obtain a milestone, you never lose it unless it is lost.

List of Milestones
when it says "already known" it means you already have that milestone right?
 * Machine Gun - Research available from the start, already known by Europe, North America, South America, and Eastern Asia.
 * Radio - Reseach available from the start, already known by Europe, North America, and parts of East Asia.
 * Airplanes - Research available from the start, can be completed by 1903 at the earliest.
 * Modern Battleships - Research available from the start, can be completed by 1906 at the earliest.
 * Submarines - Research available from the start, already known by Europe.
 * Tanks - Research available from 1914, can be completed by 1916 at the earliest.
 * Bombers - Research available from 1911, can be completed by 1912 at the earliest.
 * Chemical Weapons - Research available from the start, already known by Europe
 * Railroad Artillery - Research available from 1917, can be completed by 1918 at the earliest.
 * Aircraft Carriers - Research available from 1918, can be completed by 1918 at the earliest.
 * Mechanical Rockets - Research available from 1936, can be completed by 1942 at the earliest.
 * Nuclear Weaponry - Research available from 1937, can be completed by 1945 at the earliest.

Yes...

Research Speed
Different nations have different levels of research. This can change for a nation depending on how long they spend industrializing.
 * Developed Nation - Developing a new technology takes about ten turns (five years).
 * Semi-Developed Nation - Developing a new technology takes about twenty turns (ten years).
 * Undeveloped Nation - Developing a new technology takes about thirty turns (fifteen turns).

Modernization
To be announced later...

Losing a Milestone
If your nation is so devestated from a war, it is possible that you will lose a milestone. You can get it back from any of the aforementioned ways. A nuclear strike on every major city in a country will always result in losing a milestone.

Assassination for WWI
Are we going to have Serbians assassinate Archduke Ferdinand of Austria to provide the spark for World War I again? ChrisL123 01:29, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

It depends on what happens. Probably not, but we will just have to wait and see. Monster Pumpkin 01:31, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I think it would be more interesting if someone else was assisinated for a change. Perhaps the president of France, or the King of the UK, or the German Emperor or Chancellor? Callumthered 07:02, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

If the King got killed, that would appear to similar to my map game and may end up with both games losing players. Assassinate Kaiser Wilhelm...who would do it? The PM of France...there's something interesting, but I would say the King of Belgium. Now that's interesting. The Brits would declare war on the assassin's homeland, followed by France and then Germany and Austria-Hungary on the threesome, and then the Russians would jump in, and Serbia, and Bulgaria, and Japan, and maybe even Spain! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:28, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

maybe an assination shouldnt happen at all the trigger could be an uprising supported by one faction or another or and accidental border skirmish that leaves several people dead leading to a nationalistic outcry for war, with the french and german border armed to the teeth this is quite possible. or the reason could be colonial ambitions like most wars were at that time. Nkbeeching

As the Apis, leader of the black hand died shortly after assassinating serbia's King and Queen, is could still be possible that serbians kill the archduke but it would be better and more interessting if another assassination were to start the war Barretonia 21:36, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Archive
Can I have a link to that Archive? TacoCopper

Now at the top of the page. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:53, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks.TacoCopper

Choose a new nation
So, if i want to join again in the game, i need to chooise a new nation? --Katholico 01:19, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Generally, yes. Since I noticed you like to play as Chile. you can apply for an exception if you want. Monster Pumpkin 23:31, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

OK, Thanks! --Katholico 00:38, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

I want to join, what nations do you need? Azecreth 15:22, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Choose whatever nation you want. Monster Pumpkin 22:03, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

First Voting Issue: Mod Events
This is what I have planned for the mod events.
 * Mods can create events but cannot decide how countries react.
 * Mod Events can only be created by mods.
 * Mod events need to be approved as plausible by the majority of players to be accepted. Here is an example:
 *  Accepted Events 
 *  Germany invades Denmark because it supports the Entente. 
 *  Finland starts to want independence from Russia. 
 *  Assyrian Christians protest in the Ottoman Empire only to be gunned down. 
 *  Proposed Events: 
 *  Lenin escapes to Russia. 
 *  Pacific Islanders begin a rebellion against Europeans. 
 *  Orville Wright makes a monumental achievement after flying the first aircraft. This will eventually lead to the rise of airplanes. 
 *  Macedonia and Adrianpole rebel against the Ottomans. 
 *  Pope Pius X becomes pope. 
 * Proposed Events will become accepted if no one objects over a period of time, which can be decided below.

Yes

 * Monster Pumpkin 16:27, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * RandomWriterGuy 18:17, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I think that a German invasion of Denmark would spark an Early world war...

Are we voting on those events? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:05, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm almost positive those were examples, but if not I'd have to contest the first one. ChrisL123 00:28, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Chris is right, the events are only examples. They were to get the format across. Monster Pumpkin 00:30, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Modernization
Hey everyone, its Taco! Anyways, on the research thing, it says that semi-developed nations, developed, etc. How long does it take to move up a level? TacoCopper

A few (maybe five or so. Turns, not years) turns of industrial development. That should be fine. Monster Pumpkin 22:02, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Really, 'cause then I am developed! Yay. Ottoman Empire all the way!TacoCopper

Leave of Absence
I will be on vacation from Thursday until Monday, and will not have access to a computer. Gemralts 22:00, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Have a good vacation Gemralts. TacoCopper

1905.0

 * 1) The DR crisis continues to grow. A coalition is being made to stop it, though Argentina warns that it may violate American soverngity rights.
 * 2) Italian Eritrea declares independence from Italy.
 * 3) Tensions between Romania and Denmark grow.
 * 4) Thanks to foreign aid, China is able to gain some success in stopping the anarchy.

Proposed events for 1905.5

 * 1) British traders are upset with the British Empire for increasing tensions with America, making trade increasingly difficult. 
 * 2) Italy strengthens its hold on Eritrea by sending more troops to its colonies. 
 * 3) European nations like Germany, France, and Russia start trying to increase relations with the United States, trying to gain the U.S. on their side if a war begins. 

Proposed Events for 1906.0
Justification must now be provided for a mod event to become legal.

MP's Proposed Events

 * Britain launches the first Modern Battleship. (Battleships now available.)
 * Justification: OTL Event, no real change in Britain to prevent this.
 * Korea begins a new period of modernization and westernization to fend off the Japanese.
 * Justification: Was a major part of OTL Korean policy from the late 19th century.
 * China begins to drive back the warlords through foriegn support.
 * Justification: All the aid to the Chinese government is sure to help at least a little bit.
 * Britain expels the Latin American Diplomat after the Dominican Republic continues to send troops to its islands. 
 * Justification: Britain was annoyed by the Dominican Republic for doing this. Because this was continued, Britain would do something.

RWG's Proposed Events

 * 1) The rebellion in Eritrea continues to grow as pro-Ethiopian feelings increase. 
 * 2) The Persian people force the shah to rewrite a new constitution.
 * 3) San Francisco is struck by a disasterous earthquake.
 * 4) Anti-American feelings grow in Mexico, who want revenge against America for their humiliation in the Meixcan-American War. 
 * 5) A Communist rebellion pops up in the Caucasus.
 * 6) The Chinese government, with the aid of foreign support, manages to score victories against warlords.
 * 7) Modern battleships are now invented.
 * 8) The worldwide crisis continues.
 * 9) The Zionist movement becomes a political, social, and cultural force in Europe and the Middle East, which call for an independent Jewish state at their homeland.
 * 10) People in Ethiopia call for war against Italy.

Discussion:
i vote for 1,3, and 4 Nkbeeching 19:38, May 23, 2012 (UTC)Nkbeeching

What is wrong with number two? They actually did modernize at a point, they just didn't modernize fast enough. Monster Pumpkin 19:41, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I vote for 1 and 4 Axyljohnson 21:32 May 23 2012 (UTC)

i vote for three and four Iyandelian 21:59, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

These all work for me.68.8.204.28 22:35, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, it doesn't work like this. You do not vote. If you object to an event, then say why. Monster Pumpkin 22:53, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

MP's 4th proposed event is invalid, as the DR stopped sending troops after Britain requested so in 1905.5 77topaz 04:22, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Unless Antigua and Barbuda and the Virgin Islands are also British as of 1906.0, that is. Were they? 77topaz 04:24, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yes they were. Axyljohnson 07:40 May 24 2012

I object to RWG's #4. The Mexican-American War was half a century ago. Why would feelings dramatically change now? Azecreth 15:26, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually promises of regaining arizona and california by the germans to mexico is what got the USA in ww1 in the first place. Axyljohnson

True, but you'll notice that the MExicans said no to that offer because they knew it was impossible. Azecreth 22:02, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

These are aimed at RWG's ones: I object to the Communist Caucasus Rebellion one, since I worked on tons of democratic reforms since the start. I also say no to Anti-Americans in Spain. They basically got over that one. They knew by this point that it was stupid of them to go into the war instead of just giving up the land. Also, I object to #4 like Azecreth said. ~ Scraw Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:12, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, RWG's 4 and 6 not really working out. Yes, they may have been upset immediately early, and maybe early on in the game (1901), but it's now 1906, so they can't just all of a sudden declare they are anti-American now after years of the wars being over. As for number 5, I can see a small-scale rebellion, yes, considering communist rebellions happened even before the October Revolution, but it can't be too big. I think rest should be fine. ChrisL123 22:21, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

By this point Mexico had pretty much accepted the loss of the territory a while ago. Spain didn't start planning revenge after the Spanish-American War, they were wondering how it happened. This lead to Spain being isolated in feelings of self-doubt.

Can RWG provide justifications for the rest, because I don't know if they were OTL events. Otherwise objections to 4, 6, and with the others pending. Monster Pumpkin 22:29, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Azcreth, Mexico is part of the CoLA, and appaerently, USA is against it. So that's why. Spain, due to the crisis in the Americas, would mostly use this as an excuse to gain revenge. RandomWriterGuy 22:41, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

The U.S. is not against the CoLA, just the Dominican Republic invading Haiti. Spain is nowhere confident enough to go to war again. We still need pending on the rest of the events, some of which are duplicates, I add.

Objections to RWG's 4, 6, 9, 10, and the rest pending. Monster Pumpkin 22:46, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I object to 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 for now. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:50, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

MP, this is why the US against the CoLA. In fact, US is against the DR, which is allied to the CoLA. RandomWriterGuy 23:22, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I object to RWG's 4, 6, 9. I don't see what is wrong with RWG's 10 though.TacoCopper

RWG you can't control any nation's diplomacy, so 10 is invalid

Changed everything except 4 because Mexico is a CLA member. RandomWriterGuy 03:56, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

RWG, what you just said makes no sense...at all... Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:51, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Proposal for 1906.5
​RandomWriterGuy 02:09, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) The CLA undergoes rapid mobilization for a possible war with the anti-DR coalition.
 * 2) Argentina still asks France to switch sides.
 * 3) The rebellion in Eritrea continues to grow.
 * 4) Trade between the United States and Britain become disrupted due to the DR crisis.
 * 5) A crisis between Luxembourg and Belgium arises.
 * 6) Modern battleships become a mania in navies.
 * 7) Zionism becomes widespread across Europe and Palestine, with thousands of Jews ettling Palestine.

Discussion
'''I object to #4. Why again? Man, we already told you that UK and US are/should be on the same side agaisnt DR. (Or at least I did. I told everone that.) Also, for 5, over what? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:31, May 28, 2012 (UTC)'''

over the fact that luxenburg blames belgium for the assasination of their grand duke after luxenburg joined the UPA Iyandelian 03:57, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

'''Then why do I hear about tensions between the two nations? RandomWriterGuy 00:01, May 29, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''Woohoo! 300th edit. Anyways, I object to number 6, we just invented them, they wouldn't immediatly become common, and only one nation has that technology: Britain. Everyone else should be researching Battleships, since it takes 5 years at the least amount. TacoCopper'''

'''What about the some of us that have been researching for years, and have waited until 1906 to announce that they've researched that. Me (France), has done exactly that. Enclavehunter 01:03, May 29, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''It is just that if we do that, and other people would start doing the same thing. I was researching the bomb, I just didn't announce it. See the problem here. I mean, I don't personally see the problem with France doing that, but it is just going to spread faster than the flu and that might kill the game. TacoCopper'''

Mass Crossing Out?
Why did Scraw cross out a lot about the CoLA? I mean, you could have crossed them out before, why now? Gemralts 22:21, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

You should have asked me on my talk page, but the answer is because I neglected to play the game for a while. It is not exactly at the top of my priorities list and I often forget to check up on the game and make sure nothing has gone crazy, which is basically me job. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Invasion of the Dominican Republic
I'll do this because i'm neutral in the whole affair and a mod. I need to know who is fighting who, allies, etc.AwesomePeruvian

currently the russians, belgians and americans are invading, and belgium and the us have planes and belgium has dreadnought thanks to britan, no idea who is helping the DR defendIyandelian 23:47, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Technically, the whole of the CLA/UPA is supporting the DR. Brazil, Mexico definetely. Argentina, Luxembourg, Venezuela, possibly. 77topaz 04:50, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

and Austria-Hungary adn the Ottman Empire are part of the UPA, so you will have a global war, and the CLA HAS PLANES and a modern navy.

when exactly did the the CLA research planes or a modern navy

Mexico has been sending troop detachments to DR. David Rain 15:30, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

We offer you a deal, we get the DR to stop and withdraw from everywhere but Hispaniola, and you agree to call off your task force.DeanSims 20:33, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I need to know who is leading the attack so that the algorithim can be done. Monster Pumpkin 22:23, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

You and I (America and Russia) lead the charge, no? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I am closer, so logically I should lead. I just want to make sure that that is okay with the other players. Monster Pumpkin 22:34, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

=invasion of the DR=

someone else shoulds do the algorithm as i'm not a mod

Second Italo-Ethiopian War
Reason for War: Political, Border Crisis

Ethiopia's Allies:

Argentina (Logistic, Naval Support)

Italy's Allies:

Germany (Defensive, Political Support)

(Triple Alliance was a defensive alliance, wasn't it?)

Status: Status Quo

Argentinians have imposed a blockade on Italian ports

Ethiopians on defence, using trenches to avoid Italian artilleries.

Italians on counter, firing artillery shots.along the border

I did my best to explain the conflict. Yulami 13:11, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

New Rules
So, this South American issue has been egging most of us on for a little while. The players of these nations have been claiming to industrialize into major airplane and naval powers, that have pretty much gone unnoticed until recently. And it might not even be limited to South America in this game; other games included expansionist China and India (who, and feel free to prove me wrong on this one), weren't exactly the most industrialized nations in the 1900s. I propose we come up with new rules so that nations know their limits on military and how powerful they can be. We can't have South America conquering Great Britain and Italy in one turn again. If you have a proposal, just place it below. ChrisL123 22:50, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Chris's Proposals

 * 1) Perhaps we should make a rule that states if a country wants to create A (e.g, planes) then they must have a smaller amount of B (e.g, manpower, guns, etc.), considering there is a world economy and some nations can't afford everything.
 * 2) I recall a game had information on the country and how powerful they were in terms of world powers. Perhaps we should make a sort of scale from 1-10 on how powerful and influential a country can be based on our knowledge of the early 20th century, and have them beside the country in the Nations list. ChrisL123 22:50, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Discussions

 * I agree with the second one, but can you explain the first one. Enclavehunter 22:52, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course. Considering nations have to be aware of debt, not all of them can create planes and have an up-to-date navy and have a powerful army and a large amount of weapons. Like I've done with Germany, I've had an increase of the army, a smaller airforce, and a limited navy. Especially for nations like in South America, we can't have them spending "money" willy-nilly that they don't even have. So, we would have a rule that would limit their milestones, possibly depending on their scale. ChrisL123 23:01, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks for explaining it. I agree. Enclavehunter 23:08, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm all for the idea, but I would like to see the algorithim for this first. Monster Pumpkin 23:16, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Algorithm for which rule? ChrisL123 23:23, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Preferably both. It will be hard to enforce these if we don't have something backing them up. Monster Pumpkin 23:26, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can try for the second one, but the first one I'm not sure how well that can be accomplished. I'll try my best. ChrisL123 23:47, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Power and Influence Algorithm
The way this will work is the numbers will be added (or subtracted) by an unbiased mod, and the numbers will add up to a number between 1-10. As long as the majority of mods agree, this number will be placed beside the nations name so players can determine how powerful they really are. This will also determine how many milestones a country is limited to (at the end.)

And in case anyone is wondering, I have added the highest scores in each category together (without having to subtract anything) and it makes a perfect 10. If a mod thinks something else should be added I will gladly go over everything and add it in. Of course, this is just a proposal.

Location
(Based on the geographical locations, important resources and influence. Justification follows.)


 * Europe; +1.5
 * Justification: most established continent, basis of colonialism, "center" of the Earth
 * North America; +1
 * Justification: well established continent, new innovation, peaceful concepts
 * South America and Caribbean; +0.75
 * Justification: recent invasions, resources, Panama Canal, less established population
 * Africa; +0.2
 * Justification: poverty, limited population, little sovereignty
 * Oceania; +0.5
 * Justification: few land, numerous islands, limited population, isolated location
 * Middle East; +0.5
 * Justification: mainly desert land, not very modernized
 * North Asia; +0.75
 * Justification: largest amount of land, political influence, empires
 * South Asia; +0.5
 * Justification: poverty, limited population, political isolation

Milestones
(Only add most available national milestone)


 * Army; +0.5 to +1
 * Machine Gun; +0.5
 * Navy; +1
 * Airplanes; +1.5
 * Railroad Artillery; +1.5
 * Bombers; +2
 * Tanks; +2
 * Mechanical Rockets; +2

Allies
(Colonies may or may not count, depending on mod opinions)


 * One; +0.25
 * Two; +0.5
 * Three; +1
 * More than three; +1.5

Ethics

 * Unjustified expansionism; -0.75
 * Revolts; -0.25
 * Encouragement of national relations: +0.5

Wars Won
Only if war is against another player


 * One; +0.25
 * Two; +0.5
 * Three; +0.75
 * More than three; +1

Wars Lost
Only if war is against another player


 * One; -0.25
 * Two; -0.5
 * Three; -0.75
 * More than three; -1

Sovereign status

 * Colony: +0.25
 * Sovereign state: +0.5
 * Colonial empire: +1

Population
Please refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1900


 * More than 100 million: +2.5
 * 50-100 million: +2
 * 25-50 million: +1.5
 * 10-25 million: +1
 * Less than 6 million: +0.5

Based on the scale from 1-10, we can determine how many milestones a country is limited to:
 * 0-1: One
 * 2-3: Two
 * 4-6: Three
 * 7-9: Four
 * 10: Five (may be joined into 7-10)

Example
I'll try an example with Germany.


 * Europe; +1.5
 * Airplanes; +1.5
 * Three (allies); +1
 * Encouragement of national relations: +0.5
 * Colonial empire: +1
 * 50-100 million: +2 (56,000,000)

After adding, Germany gets 7.5. That means Germany is able to have up to four milestones at a time. On the Nations section, it would look like:


 * Flag of the German Empire.svg Germany (7.5) - ChrisL123 23:23, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I think it is great, we just need to vote it into approval. I think that America would technically count as a colonial empire, and that colonies and dominions not count as allies, but someone can counter me on that. Monster Pumpkin 01:26, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Approve

 * Monster Pumpkin
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum.
 * Iyandelian 20:28, June 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Gemralts 11:48, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

MP's Proposed Events

 * Korea fends off Japan's attempts to vassalize the country.
 * Justification: That Westernization program paid off, and Korea was able to secure its own autonomy.


 * Romania suffers a peasent rebellion that is eventually put down.
 * Justification: OTL Event.


 * A large group of people protest in front of the Russian State Duma.
 * Justification: OTL Event, but how Russia will react is up to them.


 * The Triple Entente between Russia and Britain is formed.
 * Justification: OTL Event.
 * Arabia expands to the north and south.
 * Justification: Arab Unity, spice up the game a little.

Discussion
Well, there's an awful lot of otl around here. With the second proposal, I think I've been trying to improve the economy and been liberalizing, but it doesn't really matter. But with the third one: Hasn't Russia been doing everything possible to liberalise? (or am I thinking of the wrong game...) Callumthered 00:11, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yes they have. In OTL the Russian Army dispersed the crowd, Since Russia is now more democratic, we will have to see what Russia does. Since you are right about Romania, I can cancel that one if you want. Monster Pumpkin 01:24, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Don't cancel it... but change it to protests, as opposed to rebellions. That way I have an excuse to make my country more democratic, without having to first put down a full on rebellion. Callumthered 03:01, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Dominican Republic

 * Location: 5
 * Motive: 10
 * Technology Milestones: 2
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies in the Fight: 4
 * Total: 21

Allies (Russia, US, Belgium ( france and germany are now also helping))

 * Location: 2 (US location)
 * Motive: 8
 * Technology: 2
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies: 16
 * Total: 26

Result

 * The Invasion force is success, but with heavy casualties.

Discussion

 * Please fix if necessary. I'm getting use to this algorithm Enclavehunter 00:44, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * For motive, if I assume right, it would be a moral reason since the DR had invaded Haiti and threatened invading other lands. I could be wrong, I didn't want to change it until I had more input. Also, in the US-Russia-Belgium coalition, was Germany included in the numbered allies? ChrisL123 01:11, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. I addded in all the countries that are participating. Enclavehunter 01:16, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * i'm pretty sure that the allies have more technological milestones, like planes and dreadnoughtsIyandelian 01:33, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * What ally is aiding Latin America? Remember, according to them, they are all one nation. Monster Pumpkin 01:36, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Second Italo-Ethiopian War (Algorithm)
Can someone from the League of Mathematicians please start these two algorithms? We really should finish these wars so we can continue on with the game (and write the Power and Influence Algorithms accurately.) ChrisL123 00:37, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ethiopia

 * Location: 5
 * Motive: 10
 * Techonology Milestones: 0
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies: 4
 * Total: 19

Italy

 * Location: -2
 * Motive: 5
 * Technology Milestones: 3
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies: 4
 * Total: 12

Result

 * The Ethiopians defeat the Italians, but they expect more to come later.
 * How does Ethiopia have three milestones? How did they get them? Also, how is one victory going to end Ethiopia? Sorry to be critical, but these need to be answered. Monster Pumpkin 22:50, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

DeanSims
I did hear from the game page that DeanSims should be tried due to his recent actions. There are two options we could take on him. Here are the options:
 * 1) Expel him from the League of Mathematicians.
 * 2) Ban him for a certain amount of turns

So what do you think?

Discussion

 * Banning him from a few turns won't do any good. I'm almost positive he said he would change (paraphrasing) but it's been like this for several map games. I think we should just expel him from the LoM so he won't be biased and implausible on algorithms. If his implausibility continues then we should ban him for a few turns. ChrisL123 19:41, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you sure? He did that in A LOT of games. RandomWriterGuy 05:19, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * I HAVNT MADE ANY ALGORITHMS!!!! I WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!! DeanSims (User talk:DeanSims) 14:20, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Erm, who suggested this? It would be nice to know who you are. And also, it would be nice if you could provide evidence here. Monster Pumpkin 19:34, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * (Based on the history, RWG brought up the two suggestions.) And provide evidence for what? ChrisL123 22:42, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Chris. About the evidence, the prosecutors need to provide evidence that the accused did something wrong enough that it would merit a removal of status. Monster Pumpkin 22:49, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

MP's Proposed Events

 * The war in the Caribbean wages on, with no victor yet in sight. 
 * Justification: Self-Explanatory.
 * Attacks by the Caribbeans People's Army increase because of the war. 
 * Justification: I actually have no idea what the CPA is, only that it is a terrorist group (duh). Given that they apparently support Latin America and are run by the Dominican Republic, they would support them. Maybe when the war is over we can try them for war crimes.
 * The Triple Alliance is near breaking point because of current events. 
 * Justification: Germany supports America and friends against Latin America. Latin America supports Ethiopia. Germany supports Italy against Ethiopia. Austria-Hungary supports Latin America. Because of this, it just all falls apart.

RWG's Proposal

 * The war in the Carribean goes on.
 * ​Justification: Obvious.
 * Due to recent events, the Triple Alliance falls apart.
 * ​Obvious.
 * The Carribean's People's Army begins unleashing terrorist activity across the French Lesser Antilles and Florida.
 * ​Justification: Since France and America are invading DR, the CPA is conducting terrorism in Florida and the French Lesser Antilles as payback.
 * Argentina is forced to cease aid to Ethiopia to defend itself.
 * ​Justification: Acutally, this was my decision.
 * Without the nearby natural resources from Latin America, the US economy goes on a downturn.
 * ​Justification: A majority of its natural resources for its economy at this time came from Latin America.
 * Mexican-Americans and other Latino-Americans are persecuted by Americans for obvious reasons. Because of this, the Southwest, Texas, and California are robbed of their needed farmers and other workers.
 * ​Justification: Obvious.

Discussion
A suggestion by the Mighty Ian! Ahem, maybe a few protests by big figures in the U.S especially business figures, the U.S had a monopoly of commerce in South America and Mexico, those big figures would support the Latin American Nations by indirectly aiding them, trust me, it's legit, I'm Puerto Rican. Ianian58 22:17, June 6, 2012 (UTC) Note: Not saying a massive side may push the U.S to neutrality or a larger scale of defecting, but notable protests.

Who's the Triple Alliance? Also, Latin America may have to end support towards Ethiopia against their will for obvious reasons. RandomWriterGuy 05:06, June 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * The, was the political alliance between Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary. The alliance was really a pre-Central Powers. It was really the reason that Germany joined the war with Austria. ChrisL123 20:26, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Monster Pumpkin 20:41, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * So what is the choice here? RandomWriterGuy 04:04, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Objection to Two, Three, Four, and Five. Reasons below.
 * 2. Germany has not commited any troops against LAtin America or the UPA, so it hasn't fallen apart completly yet.
 * 3. Cuba and Puetro Rico are closer. Also, given Britain's attitude towards the region, they might strike at British Possesions as well.
 * 4. Player decision, not a mod event.
 * 5. Can you provide a source that? What resources came from Latin America that America could not produce on its own?
 * 6. America does not have a large history of persecution in times of war. The best examples I could think of are the Japanese during WW2. That's about it.

Reply to Monster Pumpkin on 4 to 6: Ianian58 03:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

5.) One of the big companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company This is a small and fine example, other examples can be found in civil wars in Latin America, which the U.S supported dictators due to them allowing major U.S companies. A dictator; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasio_Somoza_Garc%C3%ADa#Somoza.27s_control_of_the_Government

Check on "Nicaragua and World War 2"

Now, this may obviosuly not be enough as I think, due to me not finding the information I want; but Latin America did produce 1/5 of world food, the U.S monopolized oil in Mexico and so on, these acts though, are a few years (decades) BEFORE the game time, but U.S businesses are starting to explore great possibility in Latin America, and they'd be a little angry about the war, and protest about it, I never said economic downturn so you know. Ianian58 03:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Now number 6, in World War 1, Americans sometime boycotted German Restaurants, there were cases of Germans being abused, and if a German refused to serve in the war he was taunted constantly being called "the Fuher's puppet" was it Fuher? I can't remember now. Although I doubt there would be cases of stolen herds and such, they would be slightly ruffed. Ianian58 03:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

During World War I, anything German-related and German immigrants and other German people were perseuted. So number 6 would not be objected.

For number 4, I just did that. This was just for the next turn.

America did control resources in South America: oil, trees, rubber, etc. Losing them will be a pain in the ass for America.

Well Austria is with CoLA and Germany and Italy are not.

Britain is neutral in the war. Why would the CPA atttack them?! RandomWriterGuy 05:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

War algorithm + Power and Influence scale?
When it comes to wars, should we include the Power and Influence Scale (the number from 1-10) in the war algorithms, so that way we are a little more accurate with who can beat who plausibly? ChrisL123 22:54, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

New Players allowed?
Am I allowed to enter midgame? This would be my first Map Game, and I've always been a fan of Alternate History. 142.22.16.50 17:15, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hello there. There's always room for new players, just be sure to read the rules and understand concepts like algorithms, milestones, and the power and influence countries can have in this game (if you need any help just message me or any other mod.) Also, which country were you thinking of playing? ChrisL123 20:29, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll look up fully on everything. (By the way, I've been thinking of playing as Peru or Arabia, though I'm good with another country. (I'll make an account soon.) Update: Made an account. Stewdio333 02:19, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm just curious, since I'm playing as Arabia, do I play as the Kingdom of Hejaz or Sultanate of Nejd? (I'm guessing hinting towards Hejaz, since the flag is the same as listed.) Stewdio333 04:51, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

You are actually Nejd, but you have had some expansion in recent years. I know the flag might be that of Hejaz, but that is because I didn't find any for Nejd, and the Arab Liberation Flag is more recognizable anyway. Monster Pumpkin 17:28, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, how many technologies can I research? stewdio333 20:39, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

That can be hard to determine without you having played yet. But assuming you would have an army:


 * Middle East; +0.5
 * Army; +0.5
 * Sovereign state: +0.5
 * Less than 6 million (population of 4,218,000): +0.5

You would have a 2 on a scale from 1-10, and would be able to have two technological milestones so far (keep in mind that we are in 1907.) However, having allies, encouraging relations, etc. will increase that. Just keep in mind that you cannot be a major superpower, so try not to go too overboard. Hope you enjoy the game! ChrisL123 20:59, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry, I won't go overboard *cough*Brazil*cough*, besides, I'm pretty sure that Arabia is very undeveloped by this point, since this is before oil was discovered. Stewdio333 21:11, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

CoLA
Sorry to bring this up Chris, but The Confederation of Latin America has more members than you stated on the talk page. They are all marked by a single asterisk. Did you include them in your calculations? If not, then I am afraid that you have to do them again. I can help out if you need, but you are probably better at it than I am.

Once again sorry. And to players of Latin America: Does it have a flag? Making one would be useful and cool.

Monster Pumpkin 18:39, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

AP's Proposed Events for 1908.0

 * 1) Britain leads a key Coalition invasion of Brazil from British Guiana
 * 2) Coalition troops land in the DR
 * 3) Britain deports all Dominicans from St Kitts and Nevis

MP's Proposed Events
I love how this basically becomes a competition between me and RWG.
 * The King and Prince of Portugal are shot in Lisbon.
 * Justification: OTL Event.
 * The first major oil discovery occurs in Persia. It is open to claim.
 * Justification: OTL Event. Don't take this one too far.
 * The Tunguska Event occurs in Eastern Russia.
 * Justification: OTL Event.

Discussion

 * The Arabian government, recently having an oil boom, discovered by visiting Italian engineers. Could Arabia have a bigger economy within a few turns, though marking competition (and potential tensions) and Persia? Stewdio333 07:07, June 12, 2012 (UTC)