Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flp back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
Maps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

I missing my 20% of Sundabang (war finished 1649). I'm missing the vassalisation of Oudh by Bihar (1648). I am also missing Mataram's expansion into Sundabang before the war as well as the incorporation of the Orissan Rajputs into my nation (happened 1647). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:21, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * First, i had not noticed how many years that war would take, your vassalization of Oudh was too fast, and i didn't notice the last one.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok. I thought 5 or 6 years was enough, but ok. And Ok. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:56, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * So didn't see.because i thought you spent only two turns.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:58, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

You did Russia and Novorossiya(Texan colony) wrong another time. I own those three bloody little "states" and you did novorossiyan expansion wrong! why do you keep doing russia completely wrong and ignoring my previous corrections  every single time.  I'll fix it yet again because you seem to get out of your way to screw with russia's borders and revert it to how you  want them to be not how they should be. -Lx (leave me a message) 21:28, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know the problem might lie with you posting after every turn finishes. Food for thought. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!)21:31, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is still the question of what's the limit of when war results can be coupled.Forty years seems unlikely.but your expansion on them wasn't added because of forgetfulness, in fact.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

I am confused where my nation, the Somali Sultanate is. In 1645 the Somali Sultanate was on the coast of the Horn of Africa, now in 1650 it is in inland Horn of Africa. I was wondering where the location of the Somali Sultanate is. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 23:38, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Somebody warned me that your nation was in the wrong location.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:58, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * So it is on the coast, correct? This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 16:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * No.you are understanding it wrong.when i put your nation on the littoral, people warned me that it was in the wrong location.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:57, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

And in addition to the question above, I would also like to state that I do control Adal. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:31, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't know when your war would end, and i don't know what's the time limit for the results of two wars to be coupled.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:58, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * 30 years is the time limit. The first war began in 1618 and ending in 1622, gaining 16.7% The second war began in 1646 and ended in 1649, gaining 21.8%. Totaling it up gives us 38.2%. Taking 1622 and the beginning of 30 years, 30yrs should end in 1652 - 3 years to spare. Plus, Viva stated that he would make "the rest" into a vassal - therefore I would guess that 40% of the Nation is added onto Ethiopia and the rest is made into a vassal, right Viva? :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:08, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yup. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:17, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * So Collie, 40% of Adal is part of Ethiopia and the rest is a vassal. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:19, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Isn't Scraw meant to have Austria too as it is in a personal union with his nation since 1590? And it hasdn't been shown on the map for some reason? Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:18, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * No.he said that when Austrai's player had left, he left the nation to whoever was the Emperor, but since the HRE has been dissolved, nobody controls Austria.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:32, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah. So Scraw's gonna need to marry whoever's on the throne to get Austria I'm guessing? :L [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:35, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * i don't think so.First, Austria is Catholic, and i would guess that his religion would be almost protestant.Even if he tried, it would be a relatively slow process.Not a thing of four years like he did with Brunswick.and i'm not sure whether the Austrian succession rules would allow that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:51, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I told you already, before the HRE collapses, I married the heir of Austria to the heir of Brandenburg. Then their son took over as the Habsburgs were decimated when you invaded Castile.
 * Austria became Germanic.

16:54, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is becoming a confusing thing.When Mawilda (was that his name?) took over Castille, he started to try to control Austria and its associated states and Castille at the same time.then people, and i think that some mods were involved, started to say that he couldn't control those areas.This would mean that it would happen the same thing as in OTL: Austria and Castille enter a dynastic union the strict sense of the word, not the "so loose to the point it becomes another thing entirely" sense they use on the rules.I guess the remaining Castillian Habsburgs would stop claiming the Austrian throne.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Quick question: why aren't you expanding the land gained from Bonoman?

17:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

How come im not on the map(Sudan) ive been here for eight turns now Sir DeliDog the Twenty-second (talk) 22:51, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have to think of a new color.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Saxony, Hesse and Magdeburg (excluding a tiny enclave of the actual town of Magdeburg) have all merged into the "United Monarchy of Saxony, Hesse and Magdeburg". Anhalt is still a semi-independent vassall. Could you please fix the borders accordingly? Thank you, Callumthered (talk) 08:37, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice this one.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)\
 * I didn't really publicize it much, it's merely making official the virtual union of the three states under the Saxon crown. More of a name-change than anything else. Callumthered (talk)

Okay someone has removed my enclave just north of the Netherlands, I bought that land to help me colonize. Where is it?Andr3w777 (talk) 16:10, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

the Netherlands had no player, you couldn't buy it from them.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:04, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well I did have them puppetised, before it was said it was implausible (cmon, the Scandinavians are in Bengal 100 years before the Brits!!). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:35, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

You have to realize how ridiculous it is for an Indian kingdom ,who by the way has not unified the area yet, to puppetise a major trading power like the Netherlands. Seriously.AP (talk) 05:51, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Labelled Map


So I was bored and updated the labelled map. BTW this is as of 1630.AP (talk) 01:10, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

How do you put the subtitles on it? so i could make my own maps later.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:16, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There are some mistakes on that map in terms of territories, e.g. Comchellak is much larger and Arabia own all of the Tanzanian spice islands. But other than that it is good. Also Comchellak is a vassal of the Arabian federation and its full name is the Republic of Comchellak. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:46, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Its a great map. Just Bijapur is part of Orissa proper so it would be Orissa to. But great map. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:53, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

For Japan, there's a misspelling. It should be Mononobe, not Monobe. -Kogasa   2013年3月09日 23:06:13 (JST)

Thanks so much. It looks awesome! CourageousLife (talk) 16:28, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

I just fixed all of the things you guys pointed out.AP (talk) 22:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Religion Map


Since Callumthered had asked me what was the situation of Catholicism on Europe, i went to do a coloured map of this.it got big, so now this became a incomplete world map.dark blue represents Kappelists, blue represents breakaway churches, light blue represents Catholicism, light green represents Nestorianism, green represents Islam, and yellow-brownish represents orthodoxy.it is still incomplete.Obviously, this is political too, as some nations will have some state religion, but the population will follow other one.Anyway, i don't know the Arabian Federation's state religion, to start with.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:48, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian federation doesn't have a state religion, its dominantly Islamic though. Many branches of Islam though, but I'd say Sunni or Ibadi Islam to be dominant. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:51, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There would be a lot more ortododox wrong...-Lx (leave me a message) 19:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:36, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Russia is very wrong on that map. just look at the russia I made, and then you will see the real face of orthodoxy. you did your annexations horibly wrong. you made moscow a seperate state, and now Minsk is not longer in personal union. You should realy use my map, because at this point I think you just want an excuse to piss me off so you can purposefuly get me banned.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:07, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The latter is not the case.in fact, i sometimes think that Scraw is being implausible just to have something to complain about, so he can get me to quit.We might be able to work this out, when it comes to Minsk.are you a hereditary monarchy?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Russia has an old novgorodian style Elective Monarchy. The Tsar was a firm believer in Russian unification, and once he gianed the title of Tsar of Minsk through marriage, since he wanted at the least unified russian realm under one Ruler, and he did not want his efforts to be in vain when he died in case his son did not become the next Tsar(elective monarchy) so he had the two Crowns linked, although he kept the title of duke of minsk to his own family, the title of Tsar of Minsk and Tsar of Novgorod and Russia were linked. I find it is good logic, but If that's too complicated you can consider it like an act of union/annexatoin and ignore the part about a seperate Duma being built in Minsk.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Yes, this sounds like a good logic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:27, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Just saying, but shouldn't Bijaur be hindu? Considering I have expanded my influence there and introduced anti-muslim laws and the Trimurts have been converting people like crazy? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 07:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Update time? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion (Continued)
You can't mass produce coal... There is no process to coal other than dig out of ground and then burn... Scandinator (talk) 00:38, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fine.......be like that......

00:45, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll continue my petition, see Industrialization in Archive 8 CourageousLife (talk) 01:52, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Tibet
Topaz has been gone for way too long. His last contribution was on the 9th of February and he said he'd be gone for a few weeks. This is way more than a few weeks. I think we should label him as inactive and break Tibet down. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 23:40, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Get rid of his vassals & stuff for sure, but Tibet collapsing into civil disarray may not be the best course of action. Perhaps just a change of dynasty and designating it as a NPC. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:34, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

If you guys haven't noticed, I had Lanna, Ava, and Shan declare independence from Tibet as Burma.AP (talk) 01:21, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

YEah that's part 1, what about Nepal, Bhutan? Have them leave Tibetan vassalage in 1649? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:52, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I think that Bhutan would fall into civil disarray.it is bigger than OTL Bhutan, so ethnical conflicts could happen, although i don't know the demography of the region right east of Bhutan to say it with surety.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Still, the most sensible course of action would be splitting Bhutan in two.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:19, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'll be moving in soon XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:56, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Map
Could someone create a map of this size with modern day borders on it, or is there already one made? Some of my borders are similar to modern day borders, but I don't know where they'd be on this map. CourageousLife (talk) 19:52, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia
Total: 56
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (+5, +2) = +7
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L+4), Maynila (SV+1), Cagayan (SV+1), Mindoro (SV+1), Orissa (M), Godavari (MV) = +12/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 12/3 = +4
 * Economy: 8/3 = +3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +7
 * Edit Count: 2036
 * UTC Time: 1*7*4*6 = 168
 * (2036/168) * pi = 38.07311096
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7 (+10) = +17
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5

Adal
Total: 33
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Adal (L+4): 4/7 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/8= +0
 * Economy: 3/8 = +0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Ethiopian victory ((56/(56+33))*2)-1 = = 25.8%. Ethiopian can take 21.53% of Adalese territory over next three years.

Combining this with their previous score of 15.3%, Ethiopia is able to topple the Adalese government (21.5 + 16.7 = 38.2%).

Disscussion
You have to count the amount of years spent as a leader in a war, not how many wars.AP (talk) 01:14, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, well thanks for that. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 06:47, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

You also count if you send supplies or military aid to help in any other wars where you weren't a leader. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:56, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Your war should be over by next year with you winning against Adal (1649 - It should be on the map). I shortened down the war so it was over more quickly. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:39, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome! :D Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:19, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus and allies
Total: 44
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Cyprus (L), Crete (MV), Venice (M), Croatia (S), Greece (S), Naples (S), Piedmont (S), Thrace (S), Three Sicilies (S), Albania (S), Rome (M) = 26/4 = 6.5 = 7
 * Military Development: 30/5 = 6
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit Count: 511
 * UTC Time: 5:48 = 5*4*8 = 160
 * 10.0335 = 3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Cyrenaica
Total: 42
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Cyrenaica (L) = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit Count: 511
 * UTC Time: 5:48 = 5*4*8 = 160
 * 10.0335 = 5
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((44/(40+44))*2)-1 = (44/84*2)-1 = 0.04762 (0.04762)*(1-1/(12)) = 0.04762*0.91667 = 0.0437

If the war lasts for 6 years, Cyprus can take 4.4% of Cyrenaican land, centered around Benghazi.

Discussion
Are any of Venice's vassals going to help me also? Just wondering. Airlinesguy (talk) 11:41, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Rome is helping DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It

Cyrenaica's population would probably be 6, and their age 0, as they only appeared after the Caliphate's collapse.there were also mistakes on the NPC bonus.-Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:31, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Collie, could you please fix it? I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Airlinesguy (talk) 09:22, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Russia
Total:58
 * Location:4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6(5+1)
 * Strength: Russia(L)/Minsk(M)/Obdorsk(MV) = 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 8/3= 2.66...~3
 * Economy: 14/3 = 4.66...~5
 * Infrastructure:N/A
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:9
 * Edit Count: 3664
 * UTC Time: 22:10=2*2=4
 * (3664/4)*pi=2877.6988
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population: 28(20+8)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Sibir
Total:42
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 0
 * Military Development:0
 * Economy:0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion:0
 * Motive:10
 * Chance:8
 * Edit Count:  3664
 * UTC Time:  22:10=2*2=4
 * (3664/4)*pi=2877.6988
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Crushing Russian victory.With the approx 27% of territory taken in the first invaison, Russia can take at most (((58/100)-0.5)*2)*100= 16% of sibirian territory, with 1 year of warfare, Russia can take 0.5*16 = 8% of the territory. 8+27 = 35%. Russia can take enough to crumble the Sibir State into ashes and take it over.

Even More Discussions
Remember your wars against Syktyvar, Komi & Samara? You seem to have missed them out from your recent war section. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:03, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

The 1st war with sibir should have been at least 15 years before, so should not count, Syktyvar and Komi were not in civil dissaray(at least I believed that, does not matter at all anyway I would have killed them all regardless). I got -1 from each(-2), and -2 from Samara. -2-2=-4. That was my reasoning. Well, if you want them to be -2 each I dont very much care. its just -6 then. all I need is 8% anyway. I couldn't care less. you said yourself that i had untill 1667 to kill sibir, but if the previous war counts aswell if you want to add then I dont realy care i only need 8%-Lx (leave me a message) 14:56, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say -2 for each, and 1648-15=1633 which is when your second invasion began. And yes this doesn't change the outcome but we got to make sure the rules are being followed now don't we? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:03, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

I just put this up so I dont have to cerate a section when this does happen...and it will happen. I wasnt planning on doing the war in 1648, but now that I think about it, it would be awesome to have it on the 1650 map and I can invade ukraine in the 1660s 1670s.-Lx (leave me a message) 18:35, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Just a quicky question, I will only do 1 year of war, but can I just do war in 1650, and end in the 1650 turn?-Lx (leave me a message) 22:24, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa
Total: 60
 * Location: 4 (using Mataram)
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Godavari (MV), Mataram (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 12/3 = 4
 * Economic: 8/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 5803
 * Time: 19:17 = 63
 * (5803/63)*pi = 289.37559
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6

Sundabang
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/12 = 0
 * Economic: 3/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Orissa
Total: 58
 * Location: 4 (using Mataram)
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Godavari (MV), Mataram (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 12/3 = 4
 * Economic: 8/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 6254
 * Time: 19:38 = 216
 * (6254/216)*pi = 90.960742849
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Sundabang
Total: 27
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/12 = 0
 * Economic: 3/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Phase 1
Orissan victory. I will need my allies to help me. ((60/(60+35))*2) - 1 = 26.3%

Orissa can currently claim 26.3*1.5 = 39.4% of the nation. War goes on two years, letting Orissa claim 19.73% of Sundabang in the first phase of this war.

Phase 2
Orissan victory yet again. Where are my allies? ((58/(58+27))*2) - 1 = 36.5%

Orissa can currently claim 36.5*1.5 = 54.75% of the nation. War goes on two years, letting Orissa claim 27.38% of Sundabang. Combining this with the previous total of 19.73%, Orissa recieves 47.11% - toppling the government.

Discussion
Now, from where did you took that 6210? Your main edits were 5803.And, i think that civil disarray counts as a government change, so their nation age would be -5.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 10:11, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Well, I have the 6000 edits on wiki pages badge (which only counts for main articles), and I had 6211 edits when I posted my turn, so 6210 before war. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:36, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Second Retirement
Sorry that this took so long to reveal, but I have decided to retire from AltHistory Wiki for the second time. I didn't know if I should have said anything, since I didn't want to be overdramatic like last time.

I'm gonna be honest, for some reason, it hasn't been the same. Everytime, it seems like someone has to pull the "implausogasm" card every second paragraph, whether or not it really was. This has happened on every map game I've been to lately, even Axis vs Allies Reborn, which was supposed to be relatively looser on rules.

Sorry if I sound rude, though I've had some good moments. Besides I now have more work to do, so I won't be as available. Thanks though for the good times from any friends I may have here.

Who knows, maybe I'll return for the third time? Also, I have no complaints about my France having collapsed in this Map Game, since that country was the only thing keeping me from leaving. If possible, Burgundy or the Netherlands can take control of whatever is not in chaos. Stewdio333 (talk) 04:58, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Colonial Limit
The limit for colonies is seven, as far as I know. However, it has come to my attention that Scandinavia has not seven, but ELEVEN colonies. As far as I'm concerned, this has been going on discretely for quite a long time, and the fact that no one noticed this (especially the map makers) comes to me as a shock. I don't know what will be done about this, but something must be done about this.
 * Newfoundland colony
 * Nova Scotia colony
 * Hudson Bay colony
 * Southern Maine colony
 * New Jersey/Pennsylvania colony
 * Virginia/Carolina colony
 * Inca colony
 * Somalian colony
 * Swahili colony
 * Bengal
 * Indonesia colony

00:08, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Bengal is a puppet. So are the Incas. They have 9, and the last time I checked I thought 9 was the limit. Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:15, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

No, the Aymaras are puppets, not the Incas. Even if Bengal is a puppet, 10 is above your guessed limit of 9 and the actual limit of 7.

00:19, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, To explain:Newfoundland was a vassal that declared independence this year, not a colony,and the "Southern Maine colony is part of the Nova Scotia colony, and Bengal is a puppet.Even then, i think i heard somewhere that there were no limits for the quantity of colonies this time, but i'm not sure if this is true.And the Aymarás are not puppets, or vassals.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:53, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

There are no limits to the total number of colonies as long as you do not start more that 2 every 50 years and have a maximum of 3 at the end of the 1940s. Scandinator (talk) 07:15, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Explaination for this is that many nations OTL had many, many colonies. Scandinator (talk) 07:24, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Although we should check if he isn't starting more than 2 colonies on a 50 year period.colonies obtained through war should count to this?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:34, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

From the Rules page:

Only two new colonies are allowed per 50 year period. The maximum number is seven at one time, two of which can be "large size."

Also, could someone explain this rule to me:

When areas of the Americas are first contacted by people from Eurasia or Africa, that region that is contacted will have double the colonial expansion rates from those outside nations. Regions contacted in the first 50 years since first contact will have tripled expansion.

Thank you.

17:33, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

I've followed the rules. If you don't take into account invasions of native nations, I have a legitimate amount of colonies. I have more possessions because I have invaded other nations. I find it funny that you complain about these things only when I'm gone.. Scan is right, many nations during the colonial period had a plethora of colonies. He also has several colonies acquired from the invasion of nations, others through vassalization. So quit complaining.AP (talk) 03:09, March 25, 2013 (UTC) 03:34, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) When did you even leave in the first place?
 * 2) I find it funny that you return after I complain.
 * 3) Scan only has five colonies.
 * 4) Despite what OTL says, our rules say seven.
 * 5) Your colonies are still over seven, because anything with a red border is a colony.


 * 1) Wednesday.he warned me that he was going to be out from Wednesday to Sunday.
 * 2) Actually, Scan has six or seven (Louisiana, Florida/Cuba,Panama(?),Singapore, Caribe, Ivory Coast and Papua)--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:43, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

And about that question of "When areas of the Americas are first contacted by people from Eurasia or Africa, that region that is contacted will have double the colonial expansion rates from those outside nations. Regions contacted in the first 50 years since first contact will have tripled expansion.", The answer is that it was a bonus valid from the discovery of the Americas to 50 years after it.It can't be used anymore.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:47, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Singapore is connected to Guinea, same goes for Florida and Cuba.

Venice
Total: 48
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Venice (L), Piedmont (MV), Naples (MV), Three Sicilies (MV), Croatia (MV), Albania (M), Montenegro (M), Greece (MV), Thrace (MV), Cyprus (M), Crete (MV): 27/4=7
 * Military Development: 6/2 = 3
 * Economy: 6/3 = 2
 * Infrastructure:n/a
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit Count: 1784
 * UTC Time: 3:14
 * 1784/12*pi= 467.0501078
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8 + 2 = 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0 (Malaccan War ended 15 years before this one)
 * Puppets: -2 (Malacca and Thrace)

Bosnia-Serbia
Total: 24
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Bosnia-Serbia (L): 4=0
 * Military Development: 2=0
 * Economy: 3=0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit Count: 1784
 * UTC Time: 3:14
 * 1784/12*pi= 467.0501078
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Venice can take 48/72 *2-1= 33.3333% of Bosnia and Serbia. The war will last for 3 years leaving Venice with 27.777777777% of Bosnia-Serbia.

Discussion
I think that three points of yours should be deduced, if Albania, Monteengro and Thrace are your puppets.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:42, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thrace is the only puppet state participating. Albania and Montenegro are independant nations within the Venetian League which are allied to Venice and are promised land if the invasion is successful. Scandinator (talk) 13:48, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

My bad.... been to busy to keep up with the latest changes. I have two puppet states, Malacca and Thrace. Thus -2 to my algorithm. Greece, Sicilies and Croatia are vassals. Piedmont and Naples are in personal union with Venice and will unite when the current king dies. Albania and Montenegro are independent states allied to Venice, in the Venetian League and also promised land if this invasion succeeds. Scandinator (talk) 13:53, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Cyorus and Crete provide military aid. Airlinesguy (talk) 22:00, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Rome
Total: 54
 * Location: +5 (At the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6 (Attackers Advatange, larger Colonial Empire)
 * Nations: (Rome (L), Venice (S), Croatia (SV), Greece (MV), Naples (SV), Piedmont (SV), Thrace (MV), Three Sicilies (SV), Crete (MV), Cyprus (M), Persia (M)) +22/4 = 6
 * Military Development: 6/3 = 2
 * Economic Development: 6/3 = 2
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Chance: 3
 * ​Edits: 3289
 * UTC time:​ 11:36 = 18
 * (5769/18)*pi = 574.03879
 * Motive: +3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +17
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Armenia
Total: 41
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: (Armenia (L)): 4/22 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/6 = 0
 * Economy: 3/6= 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Population: 6
 * Nation age: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Outcome
Roman victory.

54/95 - 0,5 x 2 = 0.13684210

Rome can take 13.6% of Armenia.

Discussison
Armenia's age is 0, not -5, because there wasn't a recent government change.just an annexation of other nation.This also means that they get -1 of expansion.Your motive is also 3, because you aren't defending your own territory.And, you are not supposed to use your total number of edits.just the ones on the main pages.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:08, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, new here
Hi, im new in this web, and wish to play, im from Peru, my english is not good, but i understend, i like  Netherlands, is ok? I been reading and think i can be part of this page. Quashi (talk) 02:19, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Go ahead. The Netherlands are allied to Germany and Scandinavia and are a powerful trading nation. Scandinator (talk) 08:35, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure about the Germany part.You also have three colonies, one in Texas, other in Argentina and the other in Porto Rico.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:40, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

And they are Orissa aligned. We have traded tons with them and the NOC (Orissa's Northern Oceans Company) is very friendly with the King. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:02, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, tank you! Quashi (talk) 17:14, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Spring Break
I'll be gone for spring break, and won't have internet access, from the 29 to the 7. Presuming that he will be posting, I'll ask Scraw to fill in for the length of my absence. CourageousLife (talk) 01:44, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing. 18:36, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Scraw! CourageousLife (talk) 19:42, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram/Orissa
Total:
 * Location: (5+3)/2 = 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Mataram (LV), Godavari (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: ?/1 = ?
 * Economic: ?/1 = ?
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 5864=2
 * Time: 19:38 = 216
 * (5862/216)*pi = 85.259334
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -9

Lampung (Tulangbawang)
Total:
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economic: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Coalition Victory. ((66/(66+29))*2) - 1 = 0.389473684

Coalition can claim 39% of Tulangbawang. War lasts 4 years, allowing the Coalition to claim 34.125% of the country, toppling the government. The country will be added onto Mataram.

Discussion
Your location score should be an average of both coalition member's scores. E.g. (4 + 1)/2 = 2.5 - 3 --<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:27, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:29, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals can't lead wars.AP (talk) 05:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And another correction.you led three wars on the last 15 years and helped on one.one of the wars youled lasted 5years, the other 5 and the other 2.so your recente war score is -14.Obviously, if Orissa is the leader, and you did your editcount wrong again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

The two phase war was actually 4 years, yet two would be taken away as it was a simultanious invasion. Then there was indeed a 5 year war. And then I helped for 2 years. So -9. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

No. Your war with Malwa, which started after 1636, lasted 6 years.Then there was the war with Tondo/Namayan/Maynilla, which started one year before your war with Malwa, and which you leadered, and which also started after 1636, and then your first stage of the Sumatran war and your helping of Ethiopia on the ar agains Adal.supplies sent do not count.only military aid.So, -14.Or better, we could sum the recent war and expansion of both your leaders, to avoid trouble.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 67
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV) = 6/4 = 1.5---2
 * Military: 16/2--8
 * Economy: 14/2---7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.8720468
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10

New Georgia
Total: 25 x 1.5 = 37.5
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: New Georgia(L)---0
 * Military: 2(existed for 2 turns so far)---0
 * Economy: 2---0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10

Result
(66/(84))*2-1= 0.5714285714285714

In 3 years, New Georgia is reannexed as a crown colony.

Disucssion
So, were you trying to conveniently forget that the motive factor existed?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 67
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV) = 6/4 = 1.5---2
 * Military: 16/2--8
 * Economy: 14/2---7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.8720468
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10

New Georgia
Total: 25 x 1.5 = 37.5
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: New Georgia(L)---0
 * Military: 2(existed for 2 turns so far)---0
 * Economy: 2---0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10

Result
(66/(84))*2-1= 0.5714285714285714

In 3 years, New Georgia is reannexed as a crown colony.

Disucssion
So, were you trying to conveniently forget that the motive factor existed?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 67
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV) = 6/4 = 1.5---2
 * Military: 16/2--8
 * Economy: 14/2---7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.8720468
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10

New Georgia
Total: 25 x 1.5 = 37.5
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: New Georgia(L)---0
 * Military: 2(existed for 2 turns so far)---0
 * Economy: 2---0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10

Result
(66/(84))*2-1= 0.5714285714285714

In 3 years, New Georgia is reannexed as a crown colony.

Disucssion
So, were you trying to conveniently forget that the motive factor existed?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm on an iPad is there anyway someone could put the algorithm up for the Bavarian invasion of tyrolia? I can't do that here and have no clue when I'll have access to a computer.Andr3w777 (talk) 16:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)