User talk:NuclearVacuum

Doomsday Advice
Sorry the reply took so long, Nuke - busy time of year, you know?

It's a very feasible idea, I believe. I know it's been talked about before, too.

Essentially, it would be Cape Cod joining Plymouth, and the rest continuing on as the "Outer Lands," correct? Very doable. I would not, however, bet on any of the islands joining Plymouth with the Cape. The Cape has always been a touch odd on there, while the islands made more sense.

Unless you manage to get hold of Arstar, I believe I still have some authority from him for things of his - you've got my go ahead for the Plymouth end and parts of the Outer Lands, though still try for his, and if he refuses, it'd be a "no" overall. Can't see him doing that, however, considering he's always hated Cape Cod being in the Outer Lands.

Past that, I think things devolve on you, Brian, and MasterSanders.

Btw, the correct spot on the DD page would be the section titled "1.1 Countries/Regions/Politics," near the top of the talk page.

Lordganon (talk) 10:53, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket joining Plymouth doesn't really make any sense, Nuke. They have little to nothing in common with it, compared to the rest of the Outer Lands. Cape Cod does, however, have a fair portion in common. That's what all the issues with the state have been about in the past, and I think one of the articles even states that there is a movement on the cape to do just as you're asking. The name of the rest - i.e. without Cape Cod - would continue to be the same.

Note, however, that this would be a modern, ongoing development, not something in the past.

Lordganon (talk) 11:01, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Not "down the toilet" at all, Nuke.

Nuke, the Outer Lands being its current entity, and the squabbles with Plymouth, have been canon for a while - and are referenced in a few spots, far as I remember.

Misspoke slightly when I said "modern" and "ongoing" - last couple of years works well too. As a matter of fact, Plymouth's actions regarding Vermont in March of 2010, when they "requested" the "return" of Vermont's Massachusetts lands to Plymouth, would make more sense had they just had Cape Cod join them.

Given dates of contact, however, any such actions have to be after 2007. The Outer Lands just were not really in touch with anyone prior to then.

As I said, it is a good idea for Cape Cod to do it. The dates just need to "mesh."

Only problem, overall, is a news update Arstar put up on the main page last August, though he never did anything with it, so I figure I can just remove it. Not like his opinion changed, he just decided not to fight anymore over it. The opinions and words on the pages in question did not change, after all.

Lordganon (talk) 05:25, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that is a bit odd that Block never was when the rest were.

By my guesswork, and given the areas of Cape Cod that are part of that area and not under Plymouth authority, Long Island would be dominant, with or without the Cape.

Go with 2009 as a date.

Lordganon (talk) 02:34, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

No, not really a wasteland. It's not all that big of a strike, compared to some, and there would be a ground passage by this point.

Plymouth also controls the very tip of Cape Cod, having taken possession of Provincetown and the Coast Guard station there early on. Elements fleeing Otis made contact with them, even though they fled to Plymouth.

The strike, overall, is basically no problem to any unification.

The map was duplicated by the system when I chose it for a list of images shown when the wiki is featured, etc.

Lordganon (talk) 07:07, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Different sizes - different targets need different scale of attacks, and both parties do only have a limited number of each size.

Don't remember saying that before, but it would not be the case by now - there would indeed be some land access.

It's not really much smaller - by this point, only the base itself would be an area no one could go.

The logic for Provincetown, by and large, is that it is close to Plymouth by water, and would have heard from there before hearing from the county government about the formation of the OL. The survivors from the base heading, in part, to the Coast Guard station there is another part of it.

Up to you as to what to do with the Cape.

Yes, it's a part of the system I did not care for. It should have just let us use images on the wiki instead of making us do what amounted to uploading to their files in addition. At least it doesn't register to the system as copies, I suppose.

Picked that map because it is clean, and shows the concept well. It's also one I'm more or less sure is done.

Don't know about length. My thought really was to have them up there until more obvious edited pictures came up, ala~ confederate planes, etc., minimum, and probably longer.

If you want me to remove it, say the word.

Lordganon (talk) 03:28, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Think of it this way - if a 1 MT nuke, larger than the one used there is likely to have been, detonated on the base, it would have a ring of fires around it that would temporarily block land access. That's about the most that would block a land path, long-term. Have a look at it on this simulator. The area west of Barnstable gets more or less eliminated, but the coastal area would eventually become passable again.

I'd also add to Provincetown that the Otis strike's radiation would have, to some degree, cut off land access to there too.

What can I say, Nuke? You do good maps, lol.

The Doomsday stub template, not the regular stub category markers, goes on any DD stubs. No worries.

Lordganon (talk) 08:13, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

On Otis, nothing larger than maybe 600-700kt in size. You have to add a range beyond what it indicates to take into account the spread of fires in the aftermath as well.

...One is specifically designed for Doomsday articles, the other is not. There's a difference. And as a Doomsday stub, it has to be there, at least for now. Sorry.

That being said, you can have it at the bottom like that.

Lordganon (talk) 09:20, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

If you think that's interesting, try the other simulator and do the largest one - it's an asteroid impact, ala~ the one that killed the dinosaurs. The simulator can also do fallout directions, though only on compass points, and is far worse overall.

Actually, I've got reactors running in a few of my articles, and a few other states are working on bringing more back into running order. In fact, the reopening of Big Rock Point Nuclear Power Plant, in northern Michigan, was a major talking point in the recent Superior election. Rhodope and Transylvania are also looking at restarts on the near-future.

Yes, go for it - them finalizing construction and getting it running certainly is possible. They were designed for the long haul, after all.

Overall, it fits with the timeline too - many areas turned to nuclear power after DD. Far as I know, in fact, it's the biggest source of power for Siberia today, atl.

As to my opinions.... well, there's been a reactor proposed for Northern Alberta, to power the oilsands machinery, for quite some time, and I support it, so....

Lordganon (talk) 06:57, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that asteroid impact is interesting, lol. If only the rest of that simulator was very good...

Would indeed be a lot of possibilities.

Well, by and large, the plants weren't targets. In and itself, the EMP takes them out, and other strikes render them useless, by and large. Most of the ones in mainland Europe, of course, got destroyed by other means, but elsewhere a fair number survived.

Most were shut down, though a few were not, before they could overload. We've kinda left that off to the side, as we've no way to tell for sure exactly which went off.

Nuclear reactors, however, are meant to be quite resistant to damage, EMP, and time. They've lasted the decades much better than any other kind of plant, hydro aside. In many areas, they are the only real power source left, between the plant still standing and stockpiles of fuel, useless for other purposes, still being there. In other countries, getting cut off from the outside world - the Nordic Union being a good example - either entirely, or to some degree, led to them becoming dependent on their nuclear plants for at least a while.

It's led to them getting into use, despite Doomsday. For several countries, it's the only source of power, even today. A few areas that don't have them otl have even built new ones, and others have had them rushed compared to otl, like in the UAR. Others have lasted longer than they lasted before being decommissioned otl - a few in Australia, for instance, probably ran a half-decade or more past those dates from otl.

Odd, but interesting. Look forward to seeing it.

Lordganon (talk) 07:41, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Well, not too rushed, lol. But certainly less humming and hawing about it than otl.

Do as you want with that guy. If I see him doing it I'll take care of it, of course.

Got me as to what the heck Brez was going on about. Haven't talked to him, or anything, and I certainly haven't blocked him.

Lordganon (talk) 01:32, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

You really couldn't have know about the categories bit. No worries. Lordganon (talk) 03:57, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Logical enough for them to expand further west onto the island. Go for it.

Given the size and shape of the Cape, and the strength of the blast, Cape Cod does get unscathed. It's only a direct attack on a single small corner of it.

Odd that no one noticed that typo before you, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 12:08, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Just run with it. It's a tiny detail about your article. No world consequences, etc.

No, you do not need to propose anything if you want to make a template.

Really, so long as it's nothing that could potentially have international implications, don't worry about it.

Way I figure it, since the links to it were removed over the last year (and some) the new one is good - but could you put the "old" version back up in some form?

Lordganon (talk) 01:07, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Works.

Way I figure it, the guy that uploaded it originally did so on purpose, eschewing the other version. So it should stay on here in some form.

Besides, far as I know there's not really any proof the Romans used one or the other.

Lordganon (talk) 02:37, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

English in Cyrillic?
Found this in Ill Bethisad...

http://ib.frath.net/w/English#English_as_a_World_Language

A version of a Cyrillic English alphabet. English in Russian Alaska would both use the North American standard and at the same time, had more native Alaskan and native American borrowings as well as Russian. The folks in IB also made an English Cyrillic alphabet...

Here is the version...

Alternately, they could also use this...

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F

Any opinion?

General tiu (talk) 02:08, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, I have developed my own version of the English Cyrillic alphabet. — Hellerick [[Image:Flag of Divnogorsk.svg|20px]] 03:03, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

This is quite surprising to find in my messages.

Very intriguing idea. I had no idea this was even a possibility. I love IB, and I keep forgetting that Oregon is Russian (more amazed of the "White USSR" and Gorby with a mustache [he's pretty good with Photoshop, I'll give him that]).

As for incorporating this into Russian America, funny you should mention this. However, I was more interested in Alaska and Russia standardizing a latinitsa (Russian Latin alphabet). This is because Alaska would be the only American nation to not use the Latin alphabet, putting more pressure to go in this direction, rather than standardizing an English Cyrillic alphabet. However, I could still see the Russo-Alaskan domination also put pressure on the Anglo-Alaskans that they may indeed Cyrillicize the English alphabet. Though non of these would become official (Russian will still be Cyrillic and English will still be Latin).

Thank you both, this sure made my day. It was sure a brain exercise to read English in Cyrillic (but I did it ^_^). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:02, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Imperial Federation
Like you said at first in that - nationalism would exist, just not like otl.

It'd be more like nationalism existed - though not by that name otl, given the differences - before the revolutions. A much more moderate version of nationalism, more or less.

So, there's still going to be "Canadians" and whatnot - just more moderated versions. Basically, I'd expect most countries would act like most otl Canadians in that sense.

That being said, with nationalism more muted, the idea for imperial federations would be more plausible than it was otl.

The preferred title for Canada otl - rather than not having one, like otl - was "Kingdom of Canada." It was decided not to use it for fear of offending the USA. Silly, but true. With no unified USA, that's not an issue. So, it has Kingdom in the name as a result. Note, as well, that dominion status would be delayed from otl at least a decade. By my guess, this may have been the original intention.

Lordganon (talk) 11:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Warring Discussions.
NuclearVacuum, the photos I added to Two Americas Presidents of CSA, were more accurate than what were there before. Can we talk about this? -- Byzantium Purple

First, thank you BP for your work at an update. However, I am presently caretaker of this time line and it would  have been nice to ask on the talk page (as "Nuke" mentioned on your talk page).

Second, thank you Nuke for looking out for the page. By the time I got the messages that changes had been made, you had taken care of the "problem." I must admit that I went the easy way, chosing the pictures on each of my choices' Wikipedia pages. I will go back and evaluate the pictures now, based on the objections BP brought up. SouthWriter (talk) 03:47, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Otl Presidents in 13 Fallen Stars
Couldn't help seeing the "unknowns" on your list a few days ago - after, of course, having noticed it before and forgotten - and figured I'd have a look.

So....

Hoover - On his father's side, atl western PA, moving there (mostly) from Maryland, with a small contribution from western NC. On his mother's, PA with a small amount of NE, immigrating through Canada. If anything, I figure it'd be PA otl.

Truman - both sides of his family were, prior to moving to Missouri, almost entirely KY and VA. So, Virginia atl.

Eisenhower - May have been born in Texas otl, but his family has very long-standing roots in western PA otl. Would be there atl.

Johnson - Seems that his ancestors moved westwards from Georgia and the Carolinas, only heading to Texas when his grandfather did, moving there from Alabama. Would be Carolina atl.

Ford - Father's family from western PA, very long-standing. Mother's family, mostly from Ohio after moving here from NY and NE, with one Scottish immigrant. If anything, would be PA atl.

Reagan - Both sides of his family were from Illinois, with their ancestors having moved there from the British Isles through Canada. Canada atl would be very likely.

Clinton - Family on both sides from atl Carolina. More or less every state. both atl and otl. Would be from there, then.

Obama - his mother's family seems to have been largely Virginian in origin, but definitively with a bit from all the colonies. Would be, then, Virginia if anything.

Hope that's helpful to you.

Lordganon (talk) 11:40, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Good researcher, is all. Aside from Johnson, all of those presidents have reasonable trees out there - just have to find them.

Virginia would probably get rid of it not from from its otl abolition in the US. maybe a decade later, at most.

Carolina... not so good. They'd probably bow to pressure around the same time as Brazil.

Read through your "muse" on the subject, with regards to Lincoln and Virginia. Lincoln's family would likely have moved to Virginian territories west of Kentucky. I'd actually bet on a more abolitionist - someone with Lincoln's views, or nearly so, and he was very moderate on the concept, remember - president getting elected and a pro-slavery revolt happening. Lee and many Virginians from even otl Virginia would stick with the government, and Lee putting down the revolt would make sense. Losers would flee into Carolina. Would get Lee the presidency. The areas in question, by and large, would be east of the mountains, south of Richmond, and west of Norfolk, with scattered groups elsewhere.

Apologies about missing the last post. You called it, basically - too many people posting while I was busy and I missed one. Shame it was actually one I'd have enjoyed dealing with.

Yes, most wanted Canada to be actually named the Kingdom of Canada. There was less support for that idea in the other dominions, but I've no doubt that with a Canadian precedent, they'd be named that too, since that is how it more or less was otl. Would be much the same in Spanish colonies, though not for the same reasons - would be from the top, rather than the bottom, in that case.

Your idea is more or less equal to the one extreme of suggestions about what such a thing would be. But it's really not that workable - areas would feel shortchanged, and it's be too much of a geographic area, spread-wise, with different concerns.

Something akin to what they've been trying to get the EU to become - i.e. states still separate, but with an overarching government responsible in some areas - would be likely.

You're right about the makeup, by and large - for a long time, it'd only be the settler dominions included. That being said, India - the colony of India, including other otl countries - would be included in that. Special case. Eventually, however, the other colonies - likely starting with small ones on the edges, like in Asia or the ed. - would get added, though far better than in otl.

Lordganon (talk) 06:41, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice that - it just ended up being something that I felt like doing, so I did it, lol.

Really, slavery itself wasn't really all that common in Spanish territories. Not that the system in place was much better, but better it was. It's not going to be more widespread.

Not abolition itself, but the fear of it. Only a small number of counties in areas that are in westernmost atl Virginia voted for Lincoln or Fremont, with only a single one having a slight plurality for Breckinridge. Most of them went for Douglas. Basically, something akin to Douglas' position on the matter would be favored - not abolitionism. Which is also something kinda akin to what Bell wanted.

And given that the votes otl probably wouldn't be all that different atl, you'd have a majority in atl Virginia in favor of it. If they elect someone of that stripe, the hard-core slaveowners will revolt. The region between the mountains and the coastal counties will be up in arms, with the counties nearest Carolina being the worst.

Overall, yes, it is very workable. Won't be an attempt at secession, mind - just a revolt. Their motivation? They'd figure that by taking Richmond, they'd get their way. They wouldn't manage it, but... there'd certainly be a scare.

Yes, the otl Netherlands is a very good comparison. This atl one would, mind, have a touch more power internationally for each member.

Really, the counties of the UK are merely ceremonial, and have been for a long time. They'd stay under the UK banner. Ireland... actually, if done soon enough, the Irish may find this arrangement good enough. The federation itself would arise, most likely, from people in atl Canada desiring more say in things.

A British Patagonia, eh? Probably very doable. Not like the Spanish would put any effort into the area if they could avoid it at all.

Lordganon (talk) 07:23, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

The members of the Kingdom of the Netherlands otl don't have, really, any leeway to do foreign affairs. The members of your federation would have a small amount. Distance and different local situations mean that it's got to be the case. The Netherlands otl, as it currently stands, is too new for this to be an issue, but it's going to arise to some degree at some point.

Have a look into early foreign activities of Canada, before WWI, for more of what I'm meaning.

Lordganon (talk) 06:24, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Technology really wouldn't matter too much in that regard. I suspect that it'd actually make it worse. Overall, I suspect that regional differences would eventually lead to more independence for each part. The parts would be more unified overall, if that helps.

Most of the Australian colonies would still join together. Common interests, etc.

That being said, Western Australia, and New Zealand, would join separately. Western Australia almost did that otl, actually. Have to disagree about the culture, though - there was differences between New Zealand and the other colonies.

The current countries bit with the Netherlands is more what I was meaning as to how it would be organized.

Federal states - like the federations first established otl in Africa - would probably be what starts atl. If for no other reason than to keep the "whites" in charge of the imperial federation. Doubt that'd last, of course.

To work, this federation would have to be set up more or less when the first colony wants it. Canada would be the one, and it'd be the 1870s or so. If it's not done right away, it wouldn't be accepted.

The Spanish claims were more or less bluffs. A lot of that was controlled in some form by other powers. I have to doubt the French would agree to give up more land than in otl, too.

Actually, in most cases, Prussia probably would take the place of Germany. Not all, of course - their expansion would not get to the Pacific, for instance - but a fair amount of their African colonies probably would be. Southwest Africa probably still falls to them, along with either Togoland or parts of Cameroon. Whatever it is, it would not be as much as otl Germany. Less power/influence, and desire. But the ones behind the expansion to colonies should still be in Prussia atl.

NN really wouldn't get Togoland either way. Whatever colonies don't exist atl in West Africa would, realistically, be split between the Brits and French. Eastern Africa to the Brits.

Lordganon (talk) 10:26, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

I meant that each of the parts - i.e. Canada, Australia, etc. - would be more unified than in otl. The divisions into provinces or whatnot would still exist, but they'd have far less power.

Nuke, unless something like this is established right off the bat, it's just not going to work. If it isn't, then each colony has some time - like in otl - to be to itself. After that, you're trying to take away their independence, as little as they had otl and would have atl. Not happening, then. That was a major part of the problem otl. If it helps, this was a position advocated by a minority prior to Confederation otl. With no USA, the idea would have more traction.

Yes, if WA is separate at the start, it won't join the rest of the continent.

Nothing is pointless, Nuke. Just about anything is always worth some consideration.

Lordganon (talk) 10:43, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

In comparison to otl, yes, it would be. The divisions would be more akin to those in France. In France, they have some roles, but not many, and are responsible to the overall state for their funding. Not quite like that here, but in the same range of powers. They'd obviously have a few more, and the ability to tax to some degree, but something similar overall.

True, I've been more using it for simplicity's sake, but it'd at least refer to otl Ontario, Quebec, and the "Northwest Territory" atl. The so-called "United Province of Canada" predates the PoD, after all, in many ways.

To be realistic, the Metis wouldn't be involved here until later on - hence, Assiniboia. And thinking on it, the Atlantic Provinces would be divided into Nova Scotia and Newfoundland anyways.

More unification, a tiny bit more authority over themselves, but still very under the crown. There was a fair amount of support for it otl. Really, pretty much everyone wanted that. But the US next door ensured that the otl result occurred.

I figure that the colonies - Canada, Australia, etc. - would have something of a cross between the government of the United Province of Canada and Canada after Confederation.

Lordganon (talk) 04:31, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's more or less what I meant for Australia.

I actually meant how France is divided up otl - and it's not quite as unitary as you may think.

The Rest of BNA would be separate. Be a lot of little chunks, overall.

The Maritimes have always been in favor of the idea of joining together to some degree. Not a bad way to put it.

A comment on the recent version of the ACW comparison in 13 - Lincoln really wasn't an abolitionist otl. Being opposed to something, and wanting an immediate end to it, are different things. Really, the proclamation was more of a weapon against the Confederacy rather than a social move on his part. Now, I'm not saying that he wouldn't be viewed like that in some ways atl - after all, the south did it otl as well, even when he said (repeatedly) that he would not abolish it. In Virginia atl, he'd be a touch more conservative on the matter, I'm sure. The election would be reasonably close, but I'm sure he'd be able to win. Lee as someone to follow him in the role, and getting some sort of gradual program into place, would be very logical. After all, it'd be some Lincoln - atl, and prior to the war otl - would have approved of.

Lordganon (talk) 13:10, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Disney (13 Fallen Stars)
I was thinking that it was possible that Walt Disney was born in Canada in 13 Fallen Stars. His Dad Elias was born in Ontario and his mom was born in Ohio. Could that result in Canadian Disney parks? I like thinking about alternate pop culture because it has a hand in shaping the world. -Yank 03:57, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I just realized that Disney's parents getting together would be a stretch. I still think a Disney-analog would arise somewhere. Could this Disney-analog come from either Britain or one of the wealthier American nations? --Yank 04:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'd have the Disney park in either OTL Gary, Indiana or Detroit. The presence of one of these parks is a major financial boon for the host city, and would save either from the economic collapse they suffer OTL. Something like 2/3 of Detroit is completely abandoned, and that's just too bad. --Yank 04:40, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Divided Japan
Do you still update the Divided Japan TL?

General tiu (talk) 04:17, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

.svg
Hey, quick question. How do you save .svg files on your computer? Do you select all files when saving and then add .svg as the extension?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:06, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you helped. And for the record, I use PC. (Mostly.)

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:39, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering...
If you would ever have problems with good quality .png flags (resolution of 2000 x whatever) for countries? Like a 2000px x 1333px resolution for a British flag? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:17, January 22, 2013 (UTC)