User talk:Enclavehunter



Norfolk Naval Base Article
I noticed you made some minor edits to the Norfolk Naval Base article. I wanted to make you aware I am the current author for the article, having taken it over from the original creator with their permission. I will be making a number of changes to it to bring it into line with my other articles for the region. As such, I ask that you refrain from making any changes since I will likely be removing them when I rewrite the article. Thanks.--Fxgentleman 00:19, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Adopting Articles
Look at the article history to find out the creator.

On another note, since you seem to be looking at doing so, please ensure you understand the Adoption Policy of this wiki.

And, look here for a bunch of timelines up for adoption, which you can just adopt - so long as you remember that you cannot change anything that is currently written.

Lordganon 07:29, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

CA Republic adoption
All yours buddy, good luck. User:Riley.Konner 16:50, October 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * You can do what ever you want with the article, remember when I relinquished control it became yours entirely so with as you please. You're doing a better job on it than I ever did, and unfortunately I will be pretty inactive on this wikia until the spring, I will check in on occasion. One thing I will do, probably tomorrow, is rework the main Red Victory if you want that entirely. Riley.Konner 17:21, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

RT
You can join, choose your area!!:D Imperium Guy 07:32, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

BTW, sorry for not noticing earlier!! :/ Imperium Guy 13:16, November 1, 2011 (UTC) What I think you should do is exoand your territories and stablize more before trying to create a second nation as your nation needs to grow. Its early days!! :D Imperium Guy 10:58, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Peaceful Democracy (Map Game)
Could you add America to the map since I'm not sure where are you located, on what island and where exactly. Or do you want me to add you myself? Doctor261 15:10, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing. By the way, is your America = USA or just another original country? Doctor261 15:17, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I see you're not really informed. In this map game, Japan, China, USSR, USA, The Third Reich, Fascist Italy and other countries DO exist, but these islands in this map game are having a small role to it. You can have good relations with USA, but you can't found USA. You see what I mean? Doctor261 15:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

So yeah. You gotta change all these "Los angeleses" etc. etc.

Can you join Peaceful Democracy map game, please? We really need more players. Doctor261 10:14, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hey
Sorry I haven't introduced myself (this is awkward). Dunno how to phrase this without sounding weird or giving too much info, but, I saw some of your posts in Radioactive Tide Map Game. You wouldn't happen to have any connections with any of the places you mentioned in-game? I happen to have a few myself. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 07:33, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Axis vs Allies Revised
Fancy joining Axis vs Allies Revised (Map Game) as either Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Sweeden or Poland? the game needs more players.86.29.76.198 03:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Red Victory adoption
I officially hand over all control of the Red Victory TL to you, I may check in once in while, and make some final edits before Tuesday, good luck, and have fun. Riley.Konner 22:11, November 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it does. Riley.Konner 19:12, November 10, 2011(UTC)

RT
I don't know!! ;) I don't know how to operate the nation thingy on RT myself!! :D Imperium Guy 23:06, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Would you be able to wait 10 days? If so, then I think you probably will be able to get a second country. Hows that?? :D Imperium Guy 15:49, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well, since you're playing in Peaceful Democracy, you should also play at Greater Europe (Map Game) Doctor261 17:16, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

In Peaceful Democracy? However you wish. It's better to add yourself yourself(double-yourself ftw), so I won't make any mistakes on how do you think. Doctor261 18:15, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Civil War
Hey, here are a few events that could've tipped the balance in the Nationalists' favor:


 * In 1927, Chiang Kai-shek was looking to rid "his" Kuomintang of communist members and influences. This culminated on April 12th, when the army of Republic of China marched into Shanghai and arrested thousands of communist sympathizers and publicly executed hundreds. Many important communists perished during and after the event, including the co-founder of the communist party, Li Dazhao on the 28th of April. But what if this haphazard "purification" had been successful in eliminating more high-ranking communists, like Chen Duxiu and Zhou Enlai?


 * In 1934, the Nationalist forces were victorious in their 5th Encirclement Campaign against the Chinese Soviet and forced the communists on a retreat, known as the Long March. Chiang Kai-shek send his army in pursuit of them, but although the nationalists outnumbered the communists 3 to 1, they failed to destroy their adversaries. In total, the skirmishes and more importantly, the elements and the lack of a chain of supply, cost the communists 80,000 men - only 7,000 arrived safely in the new Shaanxi Soviet. What if the communists had even worse luck?


 * The Xi'an Incident that took place in December of 1936 interrupted Chiang Kai-shek in his preparations for renewed offensives against the communists. Even worse, he now had to unite "his" National Revolutionary Army with the communist armies in the face of Japanese aggression. What if the incident was foiled? With a bit of luck, the Chinese Soviet will shatter between the NRA and IJA; who hate communism equally. For this to work however, Stalin has to keep his nose out of it.


 * The government of the Republic of China had always been based on east coast, where the great cities are, and as a result never had much influence on the rural peasant and his (often corrupt) landlord. The communists however, based in the rural and mountainous areas, did everything to garner the peasant's and worker's support, resulting in things like the 5.3 million men strong communist peasant army during the Huaihai Campaign of 1948. Now, what if the Republic of China had rallied the lower classes to her cause, instead of the communists?

These are just the ones I came up with when searching a POD for one of my own timelines; let me know what you think. --XterrorX 18:02, November 16, 2011 (UTC)

I´m afraid you´ll have to Google or visit Alternate History.com for that (especially Hendryk on AH.com is very knowledgeable when it comes to Chinese history). I often use Wikipedia, the sources they note underneath each article and my own book collection for my writings. --XterrorX 21:50, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

The Map
Go for it. Do you want me to tell the areas of the countries (I have the largest, lol)?? :D Imperium Guy 16:03, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

If you're creating the RT map, you shoould know the areas they cover. Here we go!! Imperium Guy 16:10, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Outback Colonies: coves half of Australia
 * Empire of New Albion: controls new England, the Canadian Maritimes, and expanding New Netherlands to control New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
 * Republic of Las Vegas: covers a large portion of southern Nevada, south-east California, and north-west Arizona
 * Japan: controls all of Japan
 * Greater isles: controls Ireland and Wales
 * Federation of Hind-Bharat: controls all of Pakistan, half of India, Nepal, Bangladesh and half of Mynmar
 * Nebel-German Confederation: covers Germany, Austria and Poland
 * Biafra: covers half of OTL Nigeria, mainly the coast
 * American Federation: covers most of the area around the Great Lakes
 * Greater Slavic Confederation: all of european Russia
 * Republic of Riverside: unknown (are you it?)
 * Repiblic of Texas: a bit obvious
 * Parlemetto Confederation: lots of area around New Orangesburg

These colours and add colours for the new countries, whatever you prefer. :D Imperium Guy 16:23, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Tthe Greater Isles needs Scotland added, Biafra is a bit bigger, the Republic of Las Vegas is triple in size (expand it east in the map). Did you add the republic of Texas and the republic of Riverside on the map? Apart from that, the map is brilliant!! :D Imperium Guy 17:52, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant map!!!! :D Imperium Guy 18:38, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't deserve to. Go for it!! :D Imperium Guy 18:48, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Greater Europe
Thank you!

~Sereniama~ | Page ▪ Talk ▪ Wiki Contributions | 06:56, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

Revolutions 1750
Hello! I am glad you are on board the map game and I hope it'll be a good one. Before I start, I just want to notify you of some things.

I'm going to extreme lengths to prevent this game from becoming implausible. Please note that moderators will have Delete on Sight permissions. This means they can delete anything they see implausible. Granted, I'll probably just cross it out so I don't confust people, but be warned that the mods reserve the right to remove problematic people from the game.

There will be algorithms factoring wars and revolutions. Keep in mind that, unless improperly done, an algorithm's result is final. Moderators will be keeping track of the algorithms. These algorithms are to keep the game plausible and fair.

The moderators are an impartial and fair group of players that have shown enough responsibility and plausibility to hold their positions. They will not be biased or unfair. That being said, please don't accuse them of being biased or unfair.

If I didn't scare you away from the map game with all this stuff, feel free to post on the map game. Good luck!

CrimsonAssassin 04:07, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

2nd Country
Could I review your progress so far? If you have managed your country successfully and you don't think having a second country will add load then you can have it. Hows that?? :D Imperium Guy 22:10, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

It seems good but year 350 poses a few problems. If the bofors taken from the aircrft carrier are small, they are fine. How would you be able to salvage the aircraft carrier without diving suits and how would you be able to keep the salvaged metal on to the sub? :S Imperium Guy 22:21, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Oops, my bad!! :/ That's fine, but the salvaging must not be too fast, an aircraft carrier is huge. Would you tell me where you would want your second country?? :D Imperium Guy 22:30, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Be careful, but go for it!! :D Imperium Guy 22:35, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

No probs!! :D Imperium Guy 22:39, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Unless you are willing to fight a civil war, don't be the Republic of Washington, that is the main area of the Chesepeake Union. :/ Imperium Guy 22:43, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Do you want to become a mod on RT?? :D Imperium Guy 09:34, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

I think asking first, if they don't respond then a star will be put beside their country with a key stating that the countries can be taken over. Don't erase the countries or your hardwork will be for nothing!! :D Imperium Guy 23:17, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Well, if new people come and they want to start again then we'll say the countries collapsed and make room. However, most likely, new people would see how large and (possibly) stable it is and take it over. How's that?? :D Imperium Guy 23:30, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yay!! :D Imperium Guy 23:35, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

States of America 3
Check out the game, and if you accept Mexico's offer tell me, and we will help Mexico end its civil war as well as gaing the border states as Mexico promised. I fyou elp me,the borders will become that of above. DeanSims 16:41, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

it wouldnt be agaisnt the rules because they were offered and sincemore than on country is doing it as well as elping another country restore peace, as well as we are kereping our post US collapse borders with eachother and the rest of the American factions, it is fair game in my opinion, and we are both mods, so 2/3 majority vote, or you and me, allows it as well. I will send troops into Mexico to help after this message is fnished.

DeanSims 17:41, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Here is the map of the two Mexicos and how the territory will be split without California DeanSims 18:16, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Good. I took the southern part of Sonora,which was yours originaly so I could have access to the Pacific Ocean and gave you Baja California which have been given to California but it didnt answer the offer. I gave you a tak division while I have 60 total tank divisions and an army of 300,000 men.

DeanSims 18:22, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

ok, no more turns after 1938.5, got it. you should post on those turns too though. DeanSims 18:47, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

yeah, but they cant attack a specific enemy over and over until they are almost destroyed. DeanSims 18:34, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

You're so interesting to play with <3. Especially when you cover all aspects of military, government, people, parties, etc. <3 It makes you actually alive and fresh and realistic. I love ye'. No homo. <3 Doctor261 06:05, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Nationalist China
Could I write about India on the portal page please?? :D Imperium Guy 14:51, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Taking Over While Im Gone
I will be gone for a week, possibly longer, I would like you to take over for me in my map games as my countries. I will also ask Imperium Guy, so you both might temporarily replace me while I am gone. Here is the list of my map game and nations and what my strategies/instructions are for them:

My Map Games and their country:


 * States of America 3 (Map Game): Texan Confederation. Do not expand until 1940.0, then invade Mexico and Louisiana and annex them both. Help your allies (Deseret, the Republic of Virginia, and the Great Lakes Republic), with their conquests and keep improving the armed forces as best you can.


 * Axis vs Allies Revised (Map Game): USE (United States of Earth) Will be peaceful after conquest of Africa is finished but will heavily work on the Armed Forces


 * Fractured America (Map Game): USA Will not start wars except to conquer Peru, Venezuela, and Ecuador. If any USA colonies are attacked offer peace deals to the attackers that work for both sides. Continue to expand the Armed Forces and Navy as much as possible.


 * Greater Europe (Map Game): UOSR, stay at peace as much as possible. Keep USA and USSR on your good side if you can. Try and conquer Persia, the USSR is helping you in this matter and don’t forget to say you are working on a nuclear bomb.


 * Radioactive Tide (Map Game): Chesapeake Union; Stay at peace with other user-controlled nations but expand the Armed Forces, Navy, and the CU itself as much as possible.

That thanks,

19:42, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

India
Well, if you don't mind, could I do it please?? BTW, without China invading Tibet, Tibet would be Indian as the Dalai Lama has asked whether India would like Tibet as a special adminstratve region and without China invading, India would have agreed. Is that fine with you?

I would say India would also be a world power as they have the 3rd largerst army in the world and would be THE largest democracy in the world. :D Imperium Guy 20:17, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

You could just have 5 world powers, simple!! :D Imperium Guy 20:32, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Changed the map because I am planning to write about the Indo-Pakistan war of 1971 will escalate (and colours slightly better!!). Is that okay? :D Imperium Guy 20:45, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Cool! :D. Imperium Guy 21:05, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Need something more original :P (Talking about your proposed map game) Doctor261 14:13, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Help/Napoleon's World
Thank you for your interest in Napoleon's World, Kyle!

Well, it is not a 100% open TL, but I am always open to suggestions in two forms: you add something and I edit anything that doesn't conform to pre-existing canon (which is an approach many editors have taken) or you suggest your ideas to me, 99% of which I usually find a way to incorporate into the TL in some way, shape or form.

I noticed you seem to have a pretty sound knowledge of the US military; wars, in particular the French Civil War, Alaskan War, Pacific War, English Anarchy and Brazilian War, are things that I'm not super good at writing and could certainly use help with, especially tactics and so on.

KingSweden 03:41, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Probably the Pacific War, with all of its naval battles, the Japanese invasion of the western United States, the campaigns throughout Asia, etc. I'm excited and intrigued to see what you come up with!

By the way, I like the Guns of the South cover, great book.

KingSweden 04:03, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Sure! You can add some new articles if you have any fresh new ideas, I'll admit I haven't lent the Pacific War much attention lately. If anything isn't 100% canon, I'll tweak it but leave the core of your work intact.

KingSweden 04:52, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

That's totally fine by me, I think Yankovic270 already started that though, called it the "Aftermath series." As far as I'm concerned, you're free to expand upon that as much as you like, but it's Yank's creation, not mine.

KingSweden 04:27, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

That's a fun game, I remember that one. Sweet! KingSweden 04:35, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Greater Ming Empire in the light yellow. Jordan Chang 10:22, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Australia
Sure, I wouldnt mind if you contributed to the Australia article, not a full adoption but yhou can definitely expand on it. Arstar 01:28, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

For the record, the article, being actually up for adoption, is something you can adopt and edit freely. Arstar no longer controls it. Lordganon 04:32, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Taking Over While Im Gone
I know I dont realy know you but I wish to ask for a favor. I will be gone for a week, possibly longer, I would like you to take over for me in my map games as my countries. I also asked Imperium Guy, so you both might temporarily replace me while I am gone. Here is the list of my map game and nations and what my strategies/instructions are for them:

My Map Games and their country:
 *  1.  States of America 3 (Map Game): Texan Confederation. Help your allies (the Republic of Virginia, and the Great Lakes Republic), with their conquests and keep improving the armed forces as best you can. Keep Expanding when the time is right and try to conquer Central America.
 *  2.  Axis vs Allies Revised (Map Game): USE (United States of Earth) Will be peaceful after conquest of Africa is finished but will heavily work on the Armed Forces. If any states try to break away, retake them as fast as possible but try to remember that they are given statehood back as soon as they are retaken. Stay with Balticka and the USA, be strong against the Coalition of Asia Try and ally with Egypt.
 *  3.  Radioactive Tide (Map Game): Chesapeake Union; Stay at peace with other user-controlled nations but expand the Armed Forces, Navy, and the CU itself as much as possible.
 * 4. Principia Modernia (Map Game); Incan-Colombian Republic, pleae keep expanding, avoid war at if you can
 * Post Apocolysixa (Map Game): Not sure if I spelled it right. Im Texas. Try to expand eastwards but primarily establish the Rio Grande as the Texa border to the south and west.thanks, i would realy apreciate it. I am only editing today then Im gone again.
 * DeanSims 19:57, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I know you dont play States of America 3 anymore, but please just do it, if you cant do that one please do the others at least thanks
 * DeanSims 19:57, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

so will you do it for me? and the CU on radioactive tide would be bigger. DeanSims 20:19, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Yo. There is a New Map game called Post Apocalyptica (Map Game), come visit it if you want to come.Eurasia12 23:23, December 3, 2011 (UTC)Eurasia12

Chile (Nationalist China)
Hello Enclavehunter! I reading the principal Page of you timeline and i noticed that you wrote something about a 2008 earthquake in Chile? Regards! --Katholico 04:27, December 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, first, the earthquake in Chile was in 2010, not 2008. jeje I'm not sure how could affect to Chile an nationalist China... mmmm... maybe, an right-wing nationalist candidate like Jorge Prat Echaurren could won the 1964 election... i need think more about this, but i have other questions: What happen with Cuba?. Regards! --Katholico 05:20, December 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * mmm, so, the cuban revolution with Fidel Castro in the 1950's still happen, right? --Katholico 06:02, December 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * OK. mmm, for Chile, i think that If the communism and the Soviet Union fall in the 1970's, no Allende or another similar politician, and in consequence NO dictatorship in 1973. Today, the political scenario should dominated by Nationalists, Radicals, Christian-Democrats, and Liberal-Conservatives. In general terms all this... what thinks? Regards! --Katholico 06:35, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Why do you keep calling yourself Great Britian? It's "Great Bri tain ", not "Great Bri tian "

states of america entered world stage, Germany, France and the UK are open, I need an algorithm for the game, and your good at that stuff. DeanSims 20:10, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Napoleon's World College Football Pick'em 2011
It's that time of year again! Time for the annual Napoleon's World college footbal bowl picks. For each game, pick which team you want to win and the results will be used to determine the winner of each bowl in January!

National Championship (Rose Bowl): 2 Cuba Spaniards (13-0) vs. 1 Pacifica Orcas (13-0)

Texas Bowl: (6) Alabama Crimson Tide (11-1) vs. (5) Iowa Hawkeyes (12-1)

Orange Bowl: (17) Peninsula Raptors (10-2) vs. (7) Florida State Seminoles (11-1)

Silver Bowl: (11) Washington Huskies (10-2) vs. (4) Sequoyah Braves (12-1)

Sugar Bowl: (14) Eastern New York Flying Dutchmen (10-2) vs. (3) Mississippi Falcons (12-1)

Peach Bowl: (16) Virginia Cavaliers (10-3) vs. (10) LSU Tigers (11-2)

Chicago Bowl: (12) Louisiana Pelicans (10-2) vs. (13) Michigan State Spartans (11-2)

Manhattan Bowl: (20) Notre Dame Fighting Irish (9-3) vs. (8) Massachusetts Minutemen (10-2)

Paradise Bowl: (9) San Diego Tritons (12-1) vs. (18) Northern Colorado Billy Goats (11-1)

Citrus Bowl: (15) Montana State (11-2) vs. (16) Nova Scotia (10-2)

KingSweden 22:39, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Or you can say who you would WANT to win, since its a fictional football season that didn't happen. I sometimes poll other users for sporting events or elections to determine who I should have win.

KingSweden 22:52, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

My talk page works, or the talk page for the 2011 NCAA Division I College Football Season. Either or.

KingSweden 23:04, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Think Before You Enact
Thanks for contributing to my timeline. Are you having any interest towards it? RandomWriterGuy 23:02, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Think before You enact Questions
Thanks for your contributions. Here are my answers: Thanks for your contribution! Do you have any ideas for the timeline? RandomWriterGuy 23:44, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Without the American Revolution or their tax burden, Britain has larger colonial ambitions, something like this timeline.
 * 2) I think Britain is willing to try to control all lands bordering the Indian Ocean. I am thinking they may send an expedition to China that will lead to something like what happened in OTL Japan during the American expedition. But without that American expedition, Japan will be something like the last years of the OTL Qing Dynasty. Russia will also try to get a piece of Central Asian land. The Ottoman Empire will be destroyed by European nations (Including the newly independent Balkan nations).
 * 3) I will think about that.

Re: Largest Cities/Bin Laden
Most definitely! Get creative, I haven't lent much attention to the cities pages in a while. They get categorized under

Enjoy!

KingSweden 22:28, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think anybody has written an entry for him in Alternate Destinies, though that idea has been suggested before, by more than one contributor, so it must be a good one. I agree completely, I can't think of anything that would be more appropriate!

KingSweden 04:40, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Finding
Been so long that I can honestly say I haven't the foggiest. My best guess is that I saw a link on Changing the Times or another similar site. Lordganon 06:31, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Re: NASCAR
No, I don't believe anyone has as far as I know. I don't think there's a NASCAR or an equivalent page for Napoleon's World for that matter. What were your ideas for them?

KingSweden 23:33, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Kyle Bush (b. 1986) is quite old enough to be a general in the USAF, but he could definitely be a well-known pilot for some combat mission or other. Also, I was thinking that maybe Formula 1 is much bigger in the US than it is today and has taken the place of NASCAR?

KingSweden 23:44, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah! That would work.

KingSweden 00:00, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Awesome. I liked all those ideas.

KingSweden 00:03, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

NC
Of course I will. That timeline's great!! :D Imperium Guy 10:30, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I am not really sure!! :/ Imperium Guy 15:56, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I could take Eurasia in general, so thats Asia and Europe, if you could take the Americas in general. We'll both work on Africa. :D Imperium Guy 10:29, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, cool! :D Imperium Guy 16:32, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Belaurus is a definite. Have Russia asking the breakaway's soon after the dissolution of the USSR, when a few countries are still double-minded. Maybe Kazahistan would join but I would say that would be it. :D Imperium Guy 10:34, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Super 8
How about Alec Baldwin and Brad Pitt? Maybe Pitt isn't nearly as famous in this TL.

KingSweden 01:31, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Could be anyone. There're some directors already established for this TL or you could add one of your choosing.

KingSweden 04:14, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah deff!

KingSweden 06:51, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

No Americas
Yes you can! Remedello

So, will you help in the war against Russia? Remedello

Ok, heres a map of what I was thinking about dividing russian land next to the Black Sea and some other plans for the Middle East, maby we should attack the Ottomans after the war with Russia:



To be honest, I really suck at UN's politics. You can go ahead and do anything related between Greater Europe and United Nations. Doctor261  (Talk to Doctor261) 06:24, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Will do for now. Doctor261  (Talk to Doctor261) 07:08, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

2010 World Cup
Hi Enclavehunter! I'm reading the IFA World Cup article and i see that you put to Brazil in the fourth in 2010, but in the article of this tournament, Uruguay appear reaching the third-place game, while Brazil is defeated at quarter-finals (like OTL).... a mistake maybe? Regards!! --Katholico 02:15, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

World War I
What the world would like after the First World War really depends on how this stalemate came about. What was the reason that the Allies couldn't force a defeat from the Centrals? What kind of treaty, if any, was signed to end hostilities? How did this stalemate "save" Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire (both plagued by ethnic nationalism and dissent)? How did the Russian royal family avoid being overthrown by the Bolsheviks? Those things have to be known first, before you can determine the further history of events. --XterrorX 21:11, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Che Guevara's World
Thats very kind of you, i try my best to make my articles realistic, thank you. Thats a very good question well first of all Che Guevara had invisioned and hoped to spark many Vietnams in the Third World and specifically within Latin America, this would essentially involve the United States as it would intervene refusing to ever let Communism rise so close to home. and the rest of the world in general. Through these major insurgencies within South America Che would destroy economic, military, and social relationships within the United and eventually breaking the US as whole, however not completely dismantling the US but it would elminate the American imperialistic domination and hold that they had as Premier Superpower. As for Brazil I imagine they too would eventually fall due to revolution outbreaking, and wouldnt really be a major event. I imagine Europe would get involved if the proxy wars began to inlargen and therefore Nato as a whole would be eventually defeated by insurgents waging sucessful guerrilla warfare. Che throughout his life concentrated on destroying US domination seeing it as the enemy of the world.

If there are anymore questions please let me know :) Germanarmy17 23:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, absolutely Che wished to see the elimiation of capitalism and hipocratic democracy and ultimately to see it replaced with Communism specifically within Latin America, which was completely suffering from infant mortality, mass starvation, illiteracy and other basic human needs. In his mind Marxism he saw was a ready made ideology which had the solution to humanity's suffering and problems. One can also assume that had Communism replaced the dictatorships of Latin America, this could have well led to a Communist led invasion of Southern United States, there also many ways to sitution could have escalated futher, such as if the USSR or China had got directly involved, at this point the world would have been on the brink of World War 3. As for the USSR its likely to assume that Che would have attempted revolution in Russia which he had already began to reject due his belief that the Soviet Union had forgotten Marx and were only serving there own interests and competitions with the United States. Germanarmy17 14:49, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Napoleonic Wars
Well, many POD's are possible, though the popular ones, being Waterloo and the 1812 invasion of Russia were fairly improbable, due to various factors including that even if France managed to win both battles, they will still have to deal with England. That is why my timeline's POD is Trafalgar, where a decisive defeat of the Royal Navy forced England to sign for peace. If England isn't around to bribe other nations, or if the Navy is handicapped in a way to not attack the outside of the French Empire (Spain, Egypt, etc. etc.), then France will be able to secure their empire. In this case, I would say that the minor "peace" between England and France that was signed in 1802, but both sides violated continuously until war finally started up again in 1804, could be a good area to look at. Say that Napoleon doesn't reinforce Haiti, or that the Louisiana Purchase doesn't go through, or that even if both sides don't flaunt the Treaty of Amiens as much as they did in our world.

I'm sure you can find something that can work; just browsing through the history of the time can give you lots of options. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 16:17, December 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but it could be more difficult to remain plausible unless the French got prior warning. The Battle of the Nile was perhaps the greatest example of a surprise attack, so many different things will have to be changed in order for it to work. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 19:40, December 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * As an fyi, if it's not sold, bet on it getting seized by either the US or the Brits, probably both of them. Lordganon 08:50, December 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I would suggest you do your research before you decide to go to far. Alternate History has a way of always going a bit silly, especially the further from the POD as you get. Sometimes the POD is the craziest bit. I have tried to pour in a lot of research into my alternate Battle of Trafalgar, even if I haven't finished the article yet, and tried to do my best to make a plausible progression of events in the ten-fifteen year period after that. After those few years a lot of things can start diverging much more radically from OTL, so that, even by the time you reach the half-way mark of the story, you wouldn't be able to recognize it (easily) from our history. That is the primary thing I have to suggest to you. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 14:52, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Pages
No worries, lol. You attached the template, that's all I ask. Heck, you even blanked the articles in order to do so, which means I can't help but notice.

One heck of a lot better than the guys who post somewhere that they want it deleted, be in my page or a community one, or just write "delete" on top on it xD

Lordganon 07:56, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think thats good, as maybe some countries could have a changed result due to PoD(s) and as well as the FIFA world cup results!! :D Imperium Guy 02:32, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

BTW, what do you think about the information on Indochina on the main and Indochinese page? :D Imperium Guy 02:34, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I am planning on making the south Nationalist, inspired by China to be liberal and fight communism. I would say that as soon as America starts pulling out, PITO cannot handle standing at the sidelines as another country is about to fall to communism and they invade N.Indochina, turning the tide. Like it? :D Imperium Guy 02:47, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

There is a future wikia, but I like your idea. You would need to ask other users whether they would want to continue the TLs in this wiki on your proposed wiki!! :D Imperium Guy 09:29, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be possible to get new users. Go for it, ask the authors, as I am pretty sure that some of them would say yes!! :D Imperium Guy 15:40, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

A warning in advance: if you do what you wrote on Imp's page - or he does it - it will be in violation of the rules of this wiki. Lordganon 15:44, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Adoption
Of course. I gave up on it since some parts were too ASB, yet it is easy to be fized. Make it your own anyway you want. RandomWriterGuy 05:58, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Think Before You Act
No worries, I noticed. He removed the wost parts that were the main reason for me putting that tag on it, so I'm not raising a fuss over it. Though, I think it'll get bad enough for me to do it again, lol. Lordganon 07:55, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Las Vegas
I created a page listing the various casinos in Las Vegas (I just got back from vacation there and felt inspired!) but since you made the Vegas page I figured I'd give you a heads up. Feel free to add any that you might think of to the page!

KingSweden 22:16, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Well I just put down the names for the four I thought up but I was going to add descriptions later, so however much you want to add. And thanks!

KingSweden 22:22, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

I renamed the French Palace casino, as I doubt anyone would want to celebrate French culture in America. I renamed "Czar's Palace" not only because of the punny name, but because the Alaskans have much more friendly relations with America than the French do.

Yank 23:05, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Think Before You Act TImeline
Have you checked the timeline page in Think Before You Act? Do you think it looks good so far? RandomWriterGuy 17:51, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I meant this. What do you think of the events? RandomWriterGuy 21:11, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you think some parts are ASB? RandomWriterGuy 21:57, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

of course you can join my new map game,

you can sign up as a mod too if you want

DeanSims 21:54, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

ok ur a mapmaker, sign up on the game. DeanSims 17:36, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

go for it, or you could declare independance as the Latin American Republic and take all of Spanish America as long as you help achieve my proposed map. DeanSims 17:50, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

and post on the bottom of my talk page in a new section please. DeanSims 17:50, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

dont be sorry, its cool.

but form the Latin American Union from all of Spanish North and South America and sing an alliance with the USA and Louisiana. Please cede the territories on the proposal map suchas Florida and the Carribean islands i selected to Spain and Luoisiana.

DeanSims 18:05, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Black Friday Riot
That's not a bad idea, though usually race riots are inspired more by police brutality instead of mall cops (who are private employees). However, there could be a massive amount of violence directed at the mall itself as a result of the violence, and a riot in the surrounding neighborhoods (i.e. a smaller-scale version of what you're advocating).

KingSweden 01:36, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

How can you guys translate Chinese words or even English words into Pinyin? Using somewho website or you guys know that? :D Jordan Chang 14:17, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Re: How I got started
Well actually the first page I wrote was what is today the History of the United States (1812-1900) page, then Mitro showed me how the naming conventions worked. From there, I had a basic idea (focusing almost 100% on the United States), made the TL page and the Alternate Destinies page, and it grew from there depending on what I wanted to write about that week (or even day). It was very symbiotic.

KingSweden 21:28, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Korea
Sure thing, I've neglected that country in my writings. This page is worth consulting to get an idea for what Korea is like in this TL.

KingSweden 14:26, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Puissance Réelle
Well, first of all, I wish I came up with that name for my alternate history than the rather long and unwieldy French Trafalgar, British Waterloo!

Now, to some of the things I would like to point out: and I hate to say this, but I have the feeling that the POD is almost too similar to mine, while the wars are almost a complete re-hash of real history. I don't mind if their is another Battle of Trafalgar TL on this wiki, but I personally believe that their are literally dozens of other options for a Napoleonic Wars TL (and I will admit that mine is a bit less realistic than what might be believed, having done the research since I started over two and a half years ago now).

What I did for my TL was basiclly write the story with a short term goal in mind (like such and such a war in the 1850's, for example). Don't hem yourself in from the very beginning with a list of wars that mirror, but are not really Alternate History versions of them. This is a thing a lot of people here do, and it is, frankly, and sloppy, unrealistic and implausible AH. So, I would say scrap the List of Wars page, figure out Point One, then grow from there.

One last thing I will say, and something I saw to everyone that starts a TL: Feel free to change dates! Just because WWI started in 1914 and ended in 1918 in OTL does NOT mean your AH needs to have a "WWI" that starts in 1914 and ends in 1918. Everything after the POD is a blank book: no outlines, no guides, nothing that happened in our world after that date really applies. Think of it like building a house: you don't put in the floor and the roof before you have laid all the bricks or poured the foundation, and you can always add on or repaint it later.

So, go ahead with whatever POD you choose, Trafalgar or something else, it does not matter. But ditch the List of Wars page, or at least be prepared to edit it (rename the wars! Change the order! etc.) so that it will fit in with your TL as you make it.

Good luck, and I will answer any questions you may have. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 02:45, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Russia is not a good country to invade, even in the best weather, which they have a rather lack of. The spring is muddy, the summer is hot, the fall is short and winter is cold and long. And not only the weather, but the people will resist. Taking over Russia in a year never works. Napoleon, Hitler and so many others have learned that lesson. But Russia would fold in 1806 or 1807 without an invasion, because Russian soldiers are not going to be sent to try to march across half of Europe without help, and if Prussia and Austria, the two nations most likely to help, are out, then they will just stay home. And at Austerlitz, Napoleon basically knocks out Austria, and Prussia is swiftly destroyed by 1808. I think Russia will just say that continuing the war is bad idea, and they will retreat, lick their wounds, and prepare for the next war. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 05:14, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * By that point, no. With Prussia, Russia and Austria out of the way, Denmark-Sweden and Ottoman Turkey no threat, Spain forcibly allied and the rest of the countries now French puppet states, he would be secure in Europe. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 05:33, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I can give you some pointers about that.

1. Russia possessed Alaska until 1867, so that part you do not have to worry about. However, Russia exactly wasn't an overseas colonial power, nor had an motivation to become one, with the vast areas of Siberia, and even closer to Moscow, still left to develop. Anyway, I'm sure America would appreciate getting OTL's Canada with just a little fight, so I think the US claiming Rupert's Land (the area draining into Hudson Bay) would be a better idea.


 * 2. The US would most likely want more than just Southern Canada, and with England in no shape to do anything and support from France (I assume), then they could take all they want.


 * 3. Napoleon, after the failure of trying to reinforce Haiti in 1803, would want very little, if nothing, to do with North America. That's a reason he sold the Louisiana Territory in the first place. If you are going to give Napoleon something, just give him some crumbs that America does not want (maybe Quebec due to the French population, but not Newfoundland: its a good base and dominates the Grand Banks, where a lot of Europeans and Americans fish. I'd think America would want that.


 * 4. At this time, there is no "Northern Ireland" or Ireland, just The United Kingdom. Ireland could have all of Ireland with no need to differentiate between the two (except for religion, but whatever). Scotland may indeed declare independence, but I would think Wales would remain part of England due to their long history united.


 * 5. What colonies? Besides Canada (which has been covered above), the only "colonies" at this time would be the few penal colonies in Australia, the trading forts in India and South Africa, and a few isolated island outposts. Frankly, they are in no shape for independence (except India), but I'd think Napoleon would either keep it for France or give them to the countries that he now dominates (like the Netherlands or Spain).

Timeline Help
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre. RandomWriterGuy 02:34, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Avaro
The game is starting now. Thanks for playing. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:56, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Re:
Yes on all four counts. For Chernobyl, why not "Chernoville?" haha

Maybe Three Mile could have been a bit worse in ATL and further hampered President Wallace's popularity? Not Chernobyl bad but worse than in OTL.

KingSweden 01:36, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Now THERE'S an out of the box idea. I like it. They can relocate the capital to Philly, or maybe somewhere else like Scranton or Erie.

KingSweden 03:35, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

I made a Three Mile page following the ideas you laid out. If there's anything else you see fit to add to it, go on ahead. I renamed Chernobyl "Chernoville," and leave that page up to you.

KingSweden 22:43, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

That sounds good. Hmm well I'm not too familiar with the history of racing so unfortunately, no. NASCAR became as big as it is today in the 1980's and 1990's though, so keep in mind that horse racing was the dominant form of the sport prior to the late 1970's (just a thought)

KingSweden 14:29, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Video Games FTBW
I do know Supreme Ruler 2020 (I have played it, yes) I just haven't got around to adding that yet. As for Fallout, I wouldn't mind if someone else tried to put that one together, because I haven't played those games, so I don't know what exactly to do.

If you want, you can add some games to it. Feel free to change up the stories a bit (like I did with the Command & Conquer Series), and just have fun with it! Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 14:50, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

RE: your questions
For most of those companies I still haven't decided. I've kept Boeing pretty much the same since I'm from the Seattle area (gotta represent). As for the Super 8 article, go on right ahead!

KingSweden 01:49, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'd say all of those earthquakes stay the same (plus I believe San Francisco was in 1905 and the Loma Prieta and Northridge quakes were separate), since I've decided not to screw with natural disasters. I don't think Fort Hood would have happened since there's less animosity between the United States and Middle Eastern countries than in OTL.

KingSweden 19:23, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Spanish Request
It has come to my knowledge that your nation in Avaro has a Nazi party. If the Nazi party is to win, I would like a strong, militaristic alliance with you. It has also come to my attention that Britain is planning to invade Spain and wishes for France to help. I would like to count on your support if that should come to that and if we work quickly, we can strike first! CrimsonAssassin 00:16, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Questions about New Union
Greetings. Yes, I am the creator and author of New Union. I am glad you have taken an interest. As for the questions you have brought up, I am unable to answer them at the present. However, the Bin Laden question I believe I can give you a vague answer, as I am looking into giving him a very different history than OTL. Not wanting to give it away, he would die sooner, but not before getting caught by the US and put on trial. I hope this was able to help you out, somewhat. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:52, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Early World War I
Why sure you can :) I currently have exams at the moment and want to improve the current content before I go past 1917 so just improve some of the current articles if you could. The Mexican civil war has hardly been done for example, mostly because I know little about the Mexican civil war. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:04, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should wait before creating a new game for a few others to die down. After that, game on! :D Imperium Guy 19:32, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, a war and expansion algorithym. However, starting sizes of nations should be upto around 250-300px max rather than 100px. Expansion at around 25 px. How's that? :D Imperium Guy 19:43, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all your points. :D Imperium Guy 20:25, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that we should unite, but the name should be the Union of Greater States. Indian is too misleading, lol! :D Imperium Guy 09:06, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

BTW, do you want to handle the colonization of Malasia and Libera, and I'll do Australia, how's that? Then we could discuss what we are going to post for the main year. :D Imperium Guy 12:45, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Activity Feed Button
Where do I find an Activity Feed button? RandomWriterGuy 02:31, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. There was a badge called Pounce!, which required 100 edits on a page after it's creation. I was wondering, how do I do it? RandomWriterGuy 02:47, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Lions/Wallace/Pacific War
Go right ahead. Check the AFL page to see when they won the AFL title or lost the title game. I think they've only won it twice but I'm not positive.... there should already be a redlink on that page too.

Well, I was thinking of making George Wallace the head coach of the Alabama football program and switching him around with Paul "Bear" Bryant (both men pretty much ran Alabama equally in the 1960's and 1970's hehe). There was a US President named Neill Wallace, however, briefly after Eisler got assassinated in '78. I full-throatedly support the naming of aircraft carriers after Presidents, so a USS Neill Wallace or a USS Robert Redford (whose term is analogous to Bush Sr.'s) would work in either case, if that's what you're presenting.

Also! We should coordinate better on the Pacific War articles so we don't write things that contradict one another and make sure that we envision the fighting and campaigns heading in the same direction (and keep the days and months roughly aligned to avoid confusion). I definitely like some of what you've done with the Japanese invasion of the US, though, and I appreciate the help.

KingSweden 01:51, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Pacific War
Well I moved the dates back more towards the spring in order to stretch the campaign out longer (thus giving more opportunities for battles, and longer period of attrition for the Japanese, plus aligning perfectly with the Battle of Panama that eventually breaks the back of the Japanese offensive in the western Pacific). I'm also curious what some of your ideas were, since I don't have a ton of my own.

KingSweden 05:09, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. There's some good infromation on Panama/Buenaventura already up from a while back and I fleshed out both the American and Southern Fronts a bit.

KingSweden 06:25, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Australia Doomsday
Hi Enclavehunter. I understand you are trying to adopt the Australia page but I had asked LG eariler in January. Would it be ok if I kept it? The reason I have not added content is because I've had quite a lot of work from school these few weeks. Note: I am also an Australian so familiarity with the nation will help with my edits. Scandinator (talk) 11:58, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much!Scandinator (talk) 20:46, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

1200 ad
1200 ad is up good luck

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:Waroftheworld

Flintlocks Forever
I whould like to personally invite you to help me create and expand the Flintlocks Forever timeline. Bobalugee1940 01:46, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Flintlocks Forever
Anything and everything. I want you to invite others and expand on whatever you like, just make sure to run by the major changes with me. Bobalugee1940 23:37, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

States of America Revised and Reloaded (Map Game)
Welcome to the game, you are welcome to post in the games first turn and take a mods position.

DeanSims 17:43, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

The game has already started, so please post in the first turn, we want the game to become a fun one.

DeanSims 18:03, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

dont forget that you control New Jeresy, you can post on both turns if you like. DeanSims 19:07, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Super Bowl
There's no super bowl in ATL, since there are three professional football leagues instead of won. The Washington Redskins and Los Angeles Rams have won their respective leagues, but I haven't decided on the AFL yet (or even who played in the game, for that matter) so I'm open to any suggestions you might have!

As for your second question.... GO GIANTS!

KingSweden 16:59, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Brazilian War
I still have a ton of work to do on the Pacific War (I'm always expanding things), but I appreciate your contributions if you feel you are done, which would be unfortunate. I thought they were very well thought out (especially the Temecula one). In regards to the Brazilian War, I haven't totally worked out the nuances of the war completely (i.e. how I want certain things to go and so on. It's modelled after the OTL Vietnam War for the most part). What were your ideas?

KingSweden 07:14, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

If memory serves me correclty, McCain was born in 1936 or 1937, which would place him roughly at forty years of age when the war breaks out in late 1977, about 41 when the US becomes involved in 1978, and 47/48 when the US withdraws ground forces in early 1984, and he would be 50 when the war ends in 1987. I've always believed flying is a younger man's game, but with McCain in mind I modelled the experiences of Mark Hamill accordingly in the Alternate Destinies, though not completely analogous. I think someone suggested once to make McCain a Western actor a la Clint Eastwood.

I do suspect the US would use air superiority for the most part, though they support one of the two guerilla forces (the Republicanos) and are opposed by both the National Army and the guerilla Milicias, who fight for the Savala regime. Keep in mind that France never gets directly involved, they are merely supporting Savala with guns and food to keep Brazil running while the US wastes resources trying to protect Colombia's territorial integrity (which is really why the war starts - Savala sends the National Army into southern Colombia to stamp out the Republicanos who are there). I do like the Rolling Thunder shoutout, I'd probably name it the same.

KingSweden 00:33, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Advice
In order....

Otl, there was two copies of the treaty that ended the Mexican-American War. One is the otl border (minus the 1853 land purchase), and the other one included Sonora, Baja, and Chihuahua. Have the two reversed, somehow, and you've got most of it. The rest is likely a stretch, though the northern parts of those Mexican states may be possible.

There's really no way possible for the Brits to lose any of that territory with such a PoD.

Add more wars, and you'd likely get 5-10 years faster. 15 is too much. War breeds new technology.

Really no way to prevent the Colonial race, I'm afraid. Best you can do is blunt its effects slightly.

With a Waterloo PoD, there's really no way that France is going to survive like that to be a great power.

Overall.....

Really, France was done by Waterloo. Even if Napoleon had won, at most that slightly delays the inevitable. Honestly, the battle at Waterloo, while the biggest battle of that campaign, wasn't even why he lost that campaign. That reason lies with other armies, from other nations.

France just wasn't at all capable of winning a war at that point. They were a very defeated nation, gasping its last breath. Nor is there any way that the Allies would have let them have any power at that point.

Lordganon 07:48, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Help
Hi, im going out for a few days and i need you to manage my countrys in my map games.

Axis and Allies Reloaded: You are Japan, You are to stay nuteral in Europe Affairs but can send aid. In Asia, reserch space programs and new weaponry. If Britian or Korea do a move, nuke their Asian Lands. Stay loyal to CNAT until you lose everything but Japan itself. DO NOT GIVE LAND AWAY IN TREATIES!

Hot Cold War-You are North Korea, ask for nukes from USSR. Survive World War 3.

Thank you, if you can;t help, just tell someone else to help. I'll be back next Thursday.

Swollow