User talk:Bobalugee1940

Nominations
Just wanted to leave you a note about Featured Timelines. While I like your enthusiasm, in the future it would benefit us all if you compared the timelines you think are good enough to nominate to the ones that have already been featured before nominating them, and comparing how well-written and complete they are. Have a good day. Lordganon 21:13, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

West Florida (Red Victory)
First, please sign your name when leaving messages on talk pages. All you have to do is add ~ to the end of your text, or you can hit the signature button in the edit box. It is rude not to sign your messages.

Second, it is not my TL. I only edited it once to correct issues with the naming conventions. The actual creator Riley.Konner. Usually to find out who created a TL/article, click on the history tab and see who created the TL/article. Mitro 14:02, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Picture
Well, I found it when searching for a ganon avatar a few years back - been my handle for a long time - if you google for "ganonplush" it'll be the first one on the list, from zeldauniverse.net. Lordganon 12:15, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Re:
Don't worry, Boba. Just ask me first before using, OK? :) Fed (talk) 03:33, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Travel (Map Game)
Uhhh, Bob, that's a defunct map game. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 18:08, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Adopting
Thought I'd point out that IP 72.78.46.192 is the creator of that timeline, the other guy is not. Lordganon 02:24, March 31, 2011 (UTC)

1983DD "edits"
I don't pay much attention to "badges," but I do get email when certain main pages are altered. It would seem that you have violated the spirit of the "law" when it comes to getting credit for 1983DD edits. All you seem to do is cut and then paste back paragraphs on these pages. The software counts that as "edits" and you get your badge. Somehow, I don't think that was what the creator of the "awards" system had in mind. We welcome constructive edits (grammar and spelling of otherwise good articles especially!) but the "cut&paste" trick doesn't earn you much respect. SouthWriter 16:51, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

Quite. Don't do it again. Lordganon 18:56, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

South tends to reply to anything written on his wall by responding there, so that may be how you miss a reply. Lordganon 15:24, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I do tend to respond to posts where they are posted. However, I just checked the history of my talk page and there was nothing from you there. I don't know what happened, for I check every post to pages I follow. I follow this page, since I made a response on it. I wish you the best in your adventures in alternate history. I just thought I'd give you a friendly admonition about the posts. Since the changes are to a page I monitor regularly, I open the page to see what changes were. Since the "changes" were not real changes, I had wasted my time, that's all. SouthWriter 16:37, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

US Civil War Map Game
You still playing? VonGlusenburg 12:16, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing which would convince you to re-join the game? VonGlusenburg 12:30, April 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries mate, I was hoping you were gonna say Rebelsolider's implausabilities made you quit, since he's been banned now. NVM thenVonGlusenburg 19:58, April 16, 2011 (UTC).

States of America 2 Map
The states colored in blue is Oregon. I control Washington. CheesyCheese 14:49, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

States of America 2
When I made my FSA page I used a copy of the Virginia page as a guide. I hope that the CRA and FSA will be good friends with your nation.

Bill

FSA vs the Confederacy
The FSA is ready to give up Kentucky to the Confederacy if the Confederacy is willing to give something in reture (such as a treaty of alliance).

I would be sad to fight the Confederacy and I think it would be best for both of us to make peace as your nation has a strong and veteran army and mine has a larger population and industrial base.

Bill

The Phoenix Summit (1)
I think that we could unite are forces with the FSA providing the industrial support the Confederacy the troops.

With these forces we can invade North Carolina and Virginia.

I am sir yours truly

Bill Potter

The Phoenix Summit (2)
I have always been a fan of the CSA and of the Poirot and I hope that we may form an alliance sothat we may remain strong against an potential invasion from the Japs, or the Soviets, or the Nazis.

Bill

Communist Virginia
The communist takeover of Virginia must not be allowed to stand. If you are willing to join in an invasion I will join with the full power of the FSA and the CRA. As a bonus if you will aid me in destroying this communist pocket, I will concede Kentucky to you.

Bill

The Virginians have done nothing to you. Why do you feel the need to stick your nose in the business of a sovreign nation? The Communists revolted for one reason. And that's because their leaders were greedy, abusive bastards.

Yank 02:45, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

Game Restart
Don't worry pal, next time we will do better and we might even reform the USA.

I look forward to it.

Bill

Nation Infoboxes
To get a nation infobox without the name of the article at the top you need to enter something in the "name" field. If you don't it just defaults to the article name.Oerwinde 07:46, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

States of America 2
I will trade you the CRA if you will aid me in any wars I fight to gain territory, and we can divide the conquered area.

Bill, 15:15 (EST), May 11, 2011

Who Created 1983DD
I saw your post on various talk pages. It was an anon who created 1983DD. You can read about it here. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 04:21, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

Quite. On another note, please quit leaving questions on Mitro's talk page - he's gone, remember? Lordganon 12:31, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

I am not good with templates I am trying to make a portal template for Return of the Kennedys can you help? Alexanders 01:12, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Confederation of States
Not looking too bad so far. Biggest problem I see is that the state order you have listed on the page makes no sense - have a look at a map, and think about it a while.

Yeah, Mitro's been gone a while - touch surprised you didn't know. If you have any questions that you'd have left for him, just send'em my way.

Lordganon 07:47, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, are you still going to be in Invasion: 1950? Azecreth 16:34, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

SIADD
Bob, please actually look at the timeline next time before nominating it. It's already a featured one. Lordganon 10:09, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

It was removed because it passed. It's no longer nominated, but featured. Lordganon 11:23, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

National Info Box
"CoG" stands for "Chief of Government."

A Head of state is someone in some sort of authority over the CoG, be it nominal or real. Examples include the Queen of the UK, who is nominal, and the President of France, who while "real" is also in several ways "nominal." In other countries, this person exercises real power, controlling the state. In other cases, foremost the USA, there is no real difference between the two, for Congress as a whole acts as the CoG.

A Chief of Government, depending on the HoS, may hold authority, and may not. Usually, this position is a Prime Minister of one sort or another. Ones with nominal power, for example, are those in most dictatorships, and examples of real power ones are Canada, the UK, and Germany.

Lordganon 21:46, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Middle Eastern Monarchies
Really, there is no "good" way. The monarchies have always been opposed to one another, being of different clans and Muslim sects, and won't even intermarry. There's virtually no way that this could possibly end up being changed, especially in your time frame. Lordganon 01:16, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

There's really no way to do it. The Middle East is just too divided for anytime like that to be remotely possible - even your Jordan-Iraq thing doesn't make any sense. About the most you could hope for is the Arab League being a touch more unified, between the EU and where it is today, but even that really isn't possible. Lordganon 04:25, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Adopting Timelines
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History:Adoption_Policy

Lordganon 01:04, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Featured Map Game
No, not feasible at all. We'd have to make an entire new layout for the main page, for starters.

Past that, we've got more than two dozen good timelines on this wiki, but only a tiny number of map games that are worth anything. And only a couple active ones, which is even worse.

Also, the wiki is actually held in contempt in some corners because of those games. Now, I have nothing against them myself, but why on earth would we do this and make that problem worse?

Lordganon 05:39, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Map Game
No, I'm afraid not. Too much to do around here as it is for me, and that's not the kind of map game I like either, lol. Lordganon 06:04, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Peak Oil (Map Game)
Would you like to join the map game i made? octiman10 23:21, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

States of America 2 (Map Game)
You have to spend the time you would have need otherwise to conquer them. Lordganon 08:34, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

New TL
Not possible.

For starters, the USA and Canada have been intertwined for so long now that it's disturbing. There is no way on earth that a plague could do that in the US but not in Canada to at least some degree.

Ignoring that, for refugees to do that, the situation would have to be really bad. The US population, by my guess, in order for that to occur, would have to drop down to levels that are more or less Canadian. Maybe double at most. And, the Brits would have got it too, though maybe not as bad if it came from the Americas. Add to that that the Canadian government would forcefully turn back these disease-ridden people from entering. And aside from the Buffalo, Sault Ste Marie, north of Seattle, and Detroit regions, it'd be easy to do - no nearby large population numbers, and cold wilderness between populations and the border.

Again, ignoring that, the Brits, with the USA vastly weakened - and with Commonwealth support, which they would get to some degree, behind them - would win in basically any scenario like that. Of course, the Soviets would get to them long beforehand, but you wanted to know about the Brits, lol.

There's no best time, really.

Lordganon 04:42, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

I should add, too, that the American refugees would be vastly outnumbered by the Canadians. There's no way that they would possibly have the numbers to manage anything of that nature, lol. Lordganon 04:50, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Flintlock Forever
Well, you're still going to have a successor to the Flintlock. We're both aware that it lasting for ever is just not happening, lol. Can't find another competing method to the PC off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there is one.

Look for ward to seeing how the Native part effects things. Like I said, I think that should be the PoD, it alone makes the timeline interesting, lol.

Too much to do, I'm afraid. But I'll offer advice and answer questions readily. All you have to do is ask. But I'm sure you already knew that, lol.

Lordganon 05:49, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer
Thanks for the offer to join your map game but I got my hands full at this time.

Thanks again,

Bill

Pirates
Really, pirates are far too factionalized for anything of the the sort to be possible. And, by nature of their activities, governments tend to take a..... violent and conquering approach to pirate bases.

The only historical example that had any kind of neutrality is Île Sainte-Marie, of the coast of Madagascar, which operated as a neutral, safe, base between pirates. By remaining hidden and small, it did last for quite some time, but it was never more than a base to them. If it had become more, I guarantee you that it would have been snuffed out, being so close to trading routes.

Nearby, there has been stories about a pirate colony called "Libertatia" in 17th Century Madagascar for ~25 years, being crushed by natives at the end. While it is possible that it may have existed, it is highly unlikely. The stories are full of facts known to be 100% false, and are not consistent in themselves - which, being written by one person, makes no sense. A large portion of scholars consider the entire thing to be a story, and nothing more, written by the English writer, Daniel Defoe, the author of Robinson Crusoe, under a pseudonym, Captain Charles Johnson. Most of the rest consider it to not be written by Defoe, but fictional regardless.

Pirates were nothing like the few shown in movies and books. Note that I have had a course in this, lol. Barbarossa from PotC is probably the closest to what they really were, though even he is too pleasant. They were ruthless, violent, and incapable of getting along for long periods. While the notion of them making a nation may sound good in theory, in reality it's just not possible.

Lordganon 06:18, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Pretty much all other pirates were protected, as privateers, by one government or the other, at the time. Port Royal has been destroyed multiple times by earthquakes too, and was the seat of the British Governor/Government of Jamaica. Almost all pirate "nests" were more or less the same thing.

Actually Bob, from what I gather, they were using naval guns. But, even if they were not, as a general rule, fortified cities and the like had far larger cannons on their own than any ship. Also, pirate ships were smaller, and with weaker armament, than an average warship - the largest pirate warships were about the size and capability as frigates, at best. And, not the American "super-frigates" like the Constitution, either - regular ones from elsewhere, which weren't armed with anything higher than a 12-pounder, normally, and 24-pounders on occasion later on. Applying naval guns to Sale wouldn't make any real difference, and it's more than likely that's what they did otl anyways. When you see references to naval guns being used, it refers to ones larger than 24-pounders, which outside of the "Super-frigates," were only found in large fortresses and ships of the line, neither of which pirates would have in their possession or access to unless they got lucky enough to steal them, which is basically impossible because of the size of the things. Nor can pirate ships actually hold the things - more or less, it's a question of weight, being that their ships would sink if they tried to put it on board at all.

Sale existing at all is a fluke. Basically, during a period of anarchy, pirates took control of a small area of Morocco. And, in the end, like I said, the pirates - note, these are actually Berber corsairs, which the pirates that you're mostly talking about would have nothing to do with - would turn on themselves, fighting a civil war until the Sultan just sent his forces through and broke it up. Nor is there anything that says the Sultan was actually in charge of said forces when Sale was declared, nor would he have been close enough to battle to have even the slightest chance of getting hit.

Even if they killed the Sultan, all that would happen is the chaos they set themselves up in lasts longer. Either the next Sultan once things are secure, or more likely a European power - have a look at what they did to the Barbary pirates every so often - would destroy them. Same result pretty much anywhere.

Given the nature of pirates, the idea is pretty much impossible. Virtually every pirate attempt at a stateish thing like that ended up with them fighting and it failing.

Lordganon 17:50, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

American Empire
Write it? The only thing I've done to that ASB trash is undo vandalism.

It being by an anon doesn't matter. It is still the work of another. You cannot do any of what you just described to it.

Lordganon 07:24, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Improper Nomination
First off, no cursing. Just because you don't say the letters and do symbols instead does not mean you didn't say it. That's a warning.

Second, have a look at it. You did not copy and paste the entire thing, and it was pretty obvious. You new nomination is more proper, and shows that you noticed part of the errors. So don't complain to me when you obviously noticed where you got it wrong. Now, I've reverted it again, because you still have failed to do it properly. And it's pretty obvious.

Lordganon 04:12, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't consider it worth nominating. While there is a lot of articles, have a look at what they are saying. Doesn't amount to much of anything, to be honest. Lordganon 08:15, August 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Look, LG, I am not sure what the stink is about. I am not privy to the 'cursing' (string of generic symbols, I guess) but the nomination was sufficiently correct. The link works and Bob's opinion is added. The fact the that he typed the part under the nomination rather than copy and paste meant that the format came out wrong, and that could have been easily fixed. To follow the rule of format to the letter is petty. Bob had the lines in place, they just weren't indented and highlighted. But instead you say, "you did not copy and paste the entire thing" and insult him ("it was pretty obvious"). It would help if there were an actual "sample nomination" to go by. Then we'd know what it looks like.

I am going to change the "Sample Nomination" to look like it is supposed to, that way an editor will know that his format is acceptable by simply previewing it before publishing. Also, I will revert the nomination, in the correct format so others can proceed to judge it on its merits. --SouthWriter 16:16, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

No problem, at least with me. I just put your nomination back up. I hope it does well, but I have not evaluated it yet, so I'm not promising anything beyond this. SouthWriter 16:58, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I have not been insulting once. Fact of the matter is that Bob got the format wrong, and that means it is an improper nomination and must be removed. Lordganon 17:57, August 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope. Not once, but twice. It was obvious that Bob had a blind spot (he changed the all caps back to the regular text). You repeated the implied insult at the end. It was not an out-and-out insult, but it was most certainly "talking down" to Bob. The line about format should not be taken so literally, LG. The format as he put it in was functional, if not technically correct. If it had been like some in the past, it would not have had the headings at all. Those were not useful to novices, so the line about format was added. Cut and paste works well, but some people never get the hang of it (my wife and my mother both use old- fashioned 'backspace and replace,' for instance). I guess what I am saying is, don't be so hasty to jump on these things. Stop and look at it from the other guy's point of view. SouthWriter 18:19, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

That was not insulting in the least. Pointing that it was obvious, and that he had thus lied to and insulted me for no reason at all was justified, and so was pointing it out a second time. I will continue to take it literally, as did Mitro after he put in that rule after getting sick of people not following instructions. Nor was his format functional. Have a closer look at it, and tell me how workable that was. Did not jump on anything, and this is far from the first time Bob has done this - and I know from the past that he knows how to do it correctly, too. End of Discussion. Lordganon 18:37, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Does the term 'jobsworth' mean anything to you, LG? Fegaxeyl 18:38, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, it does, and thanks for the insult. Lordganon 18:51, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem; I think you're owed one by the community for the way you treat some of us, sometimes. Fegaxeyl 20:25, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Note
Hello, please do not edit my time-line with out permission from me. Sorry to have to tell you this, but I made it closed time-line after I adopted it. On the portal page of time-line, there is no Public Template. This mean that time-line is closed, and only suggestions and ideas can be given, but time-line editing is closed. Hope I made clear, and please do not be offended, and I am sorry for any disruption I may have caused. 9 もりや すわこ 21:16, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

National Anthems
Bob, quit adding those. You don't have the permission, and you're making a large assumption in putting them in at all. Lordganon 21:27, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Amazingly, Bob, two of these anthems (Old Folks... & Star-Spangled Banner) were for two of the articles I am following. The caretakers of these articles, though, should be contacted before such additions are made. The video versions take up far two much space and are distracting. If I were to include an anthem, it would be a an audio stream only. These take up very little space and do not distract from the text of the article.

An idea, though, that you might try is to gather the anthems together in a proposal. You can approach the caretakers of nations as to whether their ALT nations would be using the old songs. That way, your research and efforts would not be lost. SouthWriter 22:17, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, in the case of anthems that are mentioned in the infoboxes, you could edit the infobox to create an offsite link to the anthem, that way it doesn't mess with the article, but people can easily check out the link if they wish.Oerwinde 08:03, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Imperilaist America (Map Game)
The USA asks Austria if it would like to join the alliance with China and divide Russia between itself, the USA,and China, if accepted war will be declared next year. DeanSims 00:24, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

PS Plaease reply on my talk page, by te way, if you do ally with us, we are forming a new alliance and leaving our old ones. DeanSims 00:24, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Imperialist America
I love i love it check out the game!! DeanSims 01:34, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

So, Boba, what's next for you? any new Map Games? can I give you an idea? WW2, and all players control a single soldier(with enhanced abillities) TJMW, 21:01, August 10 2011

Help, Russia and the United States are at War, keep your promise and the below borders are permanent:

Thanks, DeanSims 00:30, August 13, 2011 (UTC)



I have an idea, how about I become the Imperial States of America after we win thhe war. The same rights that Americans enjoy now will still exist in full force, but the Executive Branch will be replaced by the Emperor and his advisors. The guy who plays Russia can become Quebec. What do you think?

DeanSims 00:50, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Done, Ive got ot get off the computer now dude, my libarary times almost up. Its a deal, and go read Russias new post, its totaly impplausable. DeanSims 01:07, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

You want my opinion on what is implausible in the map game. The entire thing!!!!!! Roguejedi 02:13, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Fictional Flags
I ask you to stop adding RL flags in the Alternate History:Fictional Flags page. It's extremely annoying to have to undo your edits every time I log in and see you have added a bunch of RL flags to the page. Fed (talk) 17:22, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

A flag from OTL. Fed (talk) 17:27, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

That one is the flag of Hungary. Lordganon 21:49, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Imperialist America
I am going to be gone for a week, and I was wondering if you could take control of the Incan Empire in Principia Moderni and the USA in Imperialist America unitl I get back. Here is all I want from this, if Russia surrenders before I return, take all the territory you can get from it, and dont let the USA have countries break off of it, I want to do that and determine what new nations are created. Please get back to me when you can, thanks,

DeanSims 20:35, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for sticking up for me, I could have been banned.

Why is everyone so freaked out about rebelsoldier

DeanSims 21:51, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Don't undo
Please do not undo all of the corrections I have done on Venusian Haven. Imperium Guy isn't the admin, I am. I have already made mention of his actions to the TSPTF. Please don't undo my edits. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:54, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 22:01, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Australia (13 fallen stars)
About the flag you added to australia's page. *Here* the number of points on the stars (except the smallest one) are supposed to be equal to the number of states so there you might want to change it to be equal to the number of provinces (9). --Marcpasquin 00:59, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Vive la Monarchie!
Hate do say this, but you're going to have to use the full name with articles in this timeline. We can't do shorthand like that, it leads to confusion. Lordganon 03:07, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

SIADD is the only one, and that one is due to how long of a name it is. Note, too, that if it were a new timeline made today, I'd have made it not shorthand.

"VM" for a timeline name that is not long, and doesn't need a short name, isn't needed. And it would lead to confusion, too. With SIADD, that's not an issue.

Lordganon 19:32, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

There is no need at all for it to be shortened, Bob. Lordganon 20:14, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Mpa Game
300,000 US troops are under your control use them now!DeanSims 18:01, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

What The Heck?!
You ruined the map game, why the *&%$ did you surrender so quickly, I just cant believe you

DeanSims 18:44, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Ive had a bad day, I deleted the entire war anyway, since I was the games creator, and Lordgangon said it was allright if I did that, so please except my apology and check ou the game, I added som new rules.

DeanSims 19:34, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

There hasnt been a war yet, please post on the game though. DeanSims 20:15, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

DD
In theory, yes. Depends where you'd like to do it, mind. Lordganon 04:50, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Imperialsit America
Please vist the map game when you get a chance, I want a meeting with all the games players.

DeanSims 14:15, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

PS, Please tell the others to visit the games talk page.

Reb and the Futhist Wiki
Way I figure it, none of our concern what he does there so long as he doesn't copy anything from here. Complain at your leisure, so long as you do not try to be a representative of this wiki. If you try to do that, I will have to block you. So you understand. Lordganon 06:06, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Columbus Stranded
The article on Columbus' first journey seems to be a direct paste job from Wikipedia. I don't see where it has deviated a bit, and am wondering how that might happen after they leave the stop in the Canary Islands. The time line is called 'Columbus Stranded' to keep Spain from getting to the Caribbean area in 1492. Or perhaps, he will be stranded in the islands and never return, leading to a later contact with the local populations. I say this from what I read on LG's page. Sorry, not trolling, just happened to see you ask about the historical chances of this concept.

I would at least remove all the links (a dead give-away that you copied and pasted). I was going to say it's an easy thing to do, but the 'unlink' button has been removed from the tool bar. I guess the wiki programmers wanted it to be hard to 'get away' with that trick. The simplest way to get this material on to the wiki page is to copy and then past in the "Source" mode, thus only having to remove footnote numbers that appear between brackets like this: [7][8]. If you have a lot of footnote marks, use [Control] + F to search for the right facing bracket "[". Then mark the footnote and hit [delete].

It is far better, though, to edit out extraneous material and simplify the account. Since they had to fix one of the ships in the Canary Islands, they might have 'given up,' or started out later and run into a hurricane that puts them off course somewhere on the South American coastline. To follow the title of the time line, you might have them stranded on Cuba. By the time another crew comes looking, or thinks to attempt the same trip, conditions would change in Spain and Conquistadors may end up befriending the Mesa-Americans instead of decimating them.

I wish you the best on the new venture. --SouthWriter 01:29, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if you had seen it, but I wrote a basic article on this sort of thing 1495 - Death of Columbus a while ago, you can use it if you want--Smoggy80 11:04, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Continents
There's really no way that any of those could happen differently than otl, without a pod back thousands of years, and with that, obviously, there is no wordl as we know it at all, except for something like "South Indies" for Australia, for which all you need is a discovery when the Iberian nations were first moving into the area in the early 1500s, which is actually quite possible.

Lordganon 05:06, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Responses
1. Probably not much, though somewhere may end up crowning a monarch of some sort eventually - note that that is pretty much impossible, however. But overall, nothing is likely to change. That line of the constitution is very insignificant, quite honestly. The only time it ever really mattered was for a couple months in 1840, having no effect there besides giving the feds a bit more power that was, in effect, to define the term "republic," and then in Reconstruction, where the effects of its usage would have happened anyways, for other reasons.

2. No.

3. Separate Peace Treaties. The US never touched the place, at all - in fact, the Spanish were in control of most of it at the end of that war and got it back from the Brits themselves in the treaties. Thus, the US cannot do anything.

4. While given his position Muhammad would have known about India, him getting there is impossible. Have a look at early Islamic history, as well as travel in the period, and you'll see why.

Lordganon 08:36, September 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Mohammed was a merchant to age 40, and as such had access to trade routes from India by way of the sea. However, because of pirates on the seas, overland routes were more often used, coming up through Persia and across the Arabian peninsula by caravan.  So, though travel was not 'impossible,' it was unlikely.  Besides, Mecca was a regional holy site before Islam and was a hub city for trade.  Muhammed was born there, and would return there after being forced out.  No city in India, even if he could get there, would have been the holy city.  This does not rule out the spread east instead of west, but it would not be because Muhammed ended up in India as a foreigner.  Something in the mid 7th century would have had to cause a spread in a different direction, and Mecca would still be the holy city.


 * Any religion that Muhammed in an alternate history would have started in India would most likely have been quite different. He would have been a foreign merchant turned prophet and he would not have gathered a following in a foreign land.  As a sect of monotheistic Hinduism his followers probably would not have had the influence that he had on the Arab world.  Of course, if he had received messages from an angel, and was divinely led, then I suppose some kind of movement would have begun in India.  India in the 7th century was not unified, and no one ruler was able to expand very far.  Therefore, the spread through the subcontinent would have to have been more subtle than across Africa and the Middle East.


 * Bottom line, though travel would not be impossible, it would be impractical. If Muhammed had been a sea-faring merchant seeking wares instead of trading with those coming through Arabia, he might end up in India, but whatever religion he started would be vastly different in that context. SouthWriter 01:08, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

Can I join 13 Fallen Stars?
Greetings. I see you have adopted 13 Fallen Stars. I have always been fascinated with the timeline, and lately I have had an idea that I would love to add to the timeline. My idea is for a united republic between New Jersey and New York, called New Netherland. The name has nothing to do with a Dutch reincarnation, but a united name (since both NY and NJ were originally Dutch until English occupation). I feel both states would grow closer together (like OTL), and would federalize like Carolina and New England. My idea would also involve the two state being divided into new states, such as a divided Jersey and a sovereign Long Island.

I would also love to design a map for the timeline (one is long overdue). I would like to get your permission to do so. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:59, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 19:45, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

United Nations
You are part of the Un-permanent Security Council of the United Nations for 5 years, chosen by Random.org. Please confirm on the talk page if you wish to be part of the United Nations. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:44, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Answers
1. Actually, he did preach pacifism. It getting twisted into the opposite thing has nothing to do with him.

2. No. The differences between the factions, even before the final split, were just too great. They had, by the time of the final split, been in existence for most of a thousand years. Just no way to fix that. Nor is it possible after that - the population of the Orthodox states would have openly revolted, in near-unison.

3. Him being called the first "Pope" is based on passages in the New Testament, and he was pretty well the leader of the church from the say of Jesus' death. Without him, Christianity may not have spread much, at all.

4. Would not have changed much, if the King had allowed it at all, which is doubtful. Protestants would have moved in illegally. Also would have had almost no settlers.

5. Slight changes in dress, as well as politics in Russia, big changes DNA-wise in a ton of people. But, the effects of their bands/attacks, without them, would have been done by someone else/another group. Other effects would be:

No Atilla: Roman Empire lasts a little longer. Huns invade under someone else, worse strategy, do not get as far. Should mean no Genghis, too, but other similar attacks, probably same effect, still occur.

No Genghis: Eastern European states survive longer, better chances of surviving. Overall, effects still the same. Chinese dynasty eventually falls to Chinese, no kamikaze stuff in Japan, no Tamerlane in Persia, Constantinople taken sooner, Ottomans likely defeated by Hungarians and Balkan peoples. Still massive barbarian effects all across the board, similar to Mongols, if not them. Crusader states fall faster.

Some logic, some my opinion. None would make a good timeline, either, I believe, if that's what you're fishing for.

Lordganon 08:59, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Eastern Superpowers
It is time to form the Eastern Superpowers. China will be given an invitation aswell. It is time to strengthen Asia. Join now!! Imperium Guy 13:54, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Possible Flag?? :D Imperium Guy 17:02, September 23, 2011 (UTC)



Varients 2 and 3, lolrl. Choose your pick. :D Imperium Guy 17:51, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I have broken the treaty between Japan and China. I have continued nuclear research and nuke production. However, I will only use them now due to the USSR attack. I am helping Hindustan and ask you to join as well.

Please don't cut off diplomacy with China, please? Imperium Guy 18:51, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Japans appliacation to the EP is accepted, attack the USSR now and the UASR will elp you out as much as is needed. DeanSims 16:29, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Why the hell did they roll the game back?? Right, are you going to join the coalition to bring down the USSR to its knees again?? Imperium Guy 09:35, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

I finished my map


I thought you would be interested to hear that I have finished my map for the 13 Fallen Stars timeline. I hope I got the borders right. I know that the Midwest is part of Canada, New England gains a favorable border in Maine, Virginia would retain its territory in Kentucky and West Virginia, and the borders for Louisiana and New Spain would remain the prior to the Louisiana Purchase. I hope you like it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:48, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Answers..... again
1. Why would they? They were mostly Spanish in population at the time. The colonists barely got Georgia to go along with things. British soldiers there also almost outnumbered said population. They benefit in no way from even trying. Nova Scotia, among others, did not attend, and they were British. No way Florida does.

2. The Spanish were in no way to dictate anything. With the Americans already in control, they didn't even have to give the Spanish anything. Heck, by the time of the Treaty, English speakers outnumbered the Spanish. If a language guarantee had been put into place in the territorial/state constitutions, it would have gone the way French went in Manitoba just as fast. Though, Spanish as a language may be a touch more accepted in the US today.

3. Net change is otl Tennessee = Franklin, more or less.

4. Impossible. Ohio was already a state. States win over Territories. Each and every time.

5. Why would I want to rule the world? Too much effort.

Lordganon 22:43, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

They did not care one way or the other about the Brits. The Brits were actually nicer to them than the Spanish Crown was, and the Americans had a very intense dislike for the Spanish and the natives that formed most of the population there.

Again, taxes were actually lower.

The Brits left religion alone, for the most part. Most of the population was native, too.

Powerful neighbors? You mean the ones that did not care until several years into the Revolution? They wouldn't care.

The Pope would not offer such. There is no reason for it except to piss off the Brits, and that is perhaps the last thing he would want.

The Cubans, again, do not care. Why would they? We're talking, mostly, about a Spanish upper class ruling over a bunch of near-slave/slave workers, and a majority-native population, in a backwater in a slight amount of competition with them.

The British colonists there, as well, needed royal protection from the natives. In the 13 colonies, they did not need such, past a certain slight point.

Lordganon 03:51, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

The Floridas would not join on their own, simply put.

West Florida joining at all is pretty ASB. Think about it this way - further south you went, more loyal to the crown the people tended to be, at least originally.

If the rest of the North American colonies revolt - besides Quebec - you would probably get, because of Nova Scotian interests, the British settlers in East Florida revolting. But, for them to do so is borderline ASB.

Overall, there's no real event that would get them to revolt without ASB. I mean, you would need revolts in GB itself to even hint at that result.

Lordganon 13:34, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

For starters, the King did not do anything but sign the law that has been passed by others. The British monarchs have not controlled the state in any real regard since the late 1600s. The "unfair" Acts were by Parliament. Nor were they "imposed."

And, in fact, they were applied otl to the Floridas - those Acts were applied to all British colonies. Doesn't change a thing.

Lordganon 22:24, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

AvAr
Hey, the ruling in the ICJ was in Hindustani favor!! Therefore, Russian territories will have to be be returned and visa versa. There, war over!! :D Imperium Guy 18:19, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

We should start up a space race program as of now. The team will include: Eastern Powers, UASR, Venezuala, Yugoslavia and Argentina. It is a formidible team. Do you want to join?? :D Imperium Guy 18:31, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

A Hindustani-UASR coalition has captured most of the Phillipines with your naval support. The Phillipines in Coalition control is gifted to you as you always wanted and needed it. :D Imperium Guy 21:00, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Could you give away Malaysia to Indonesia please as that will the hardest of all territories to manage. We can see over Malay and Singapore. What dya think? :D Imperium Guy 09:36, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

You need to get 20 men or astronauts ready for the maiden human launch and planned missions to the moon and possibly Mars!! :D Imperium Guy 20:47, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

To cut in a little, may I count on your assistance in the war against the soviets. Kunarian 19:21, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

AvA (r) news
Could you let us know if your still intrested in playing for Japan, since the game is at a very intresting point and Japan needs your help.82.14.49.186 03:55, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Trojan War
Bob, you need to look into more about Troy. Homer overstated the real situation, badly, as did you just now, and the education system has for decades. Don't take that the wrong way, mind - it's a failure of the system in general, not a knock on you in any way.

Troy was a minor vassal of the Hittite Empire. Not very strong, or even that mighty. Just happened to have thick walls by a fluke. The best they can manage is to get the Greeks to leave. No invasions, or burning. Unlikely that they would be any real threat, overall. Especially when the earthquake now believed to how let the Greeks in destroyed the place.

Lordganon 07:00, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

I was looking into creating something along these lines. What if, instead of Troy killing off the Greeks, it was the Persian Empire? I also doubt democracy would cease to exist as a whole, but it would probably be a lot less powerful. At any rate, this seems like an interesting project. Would you want to work on this together? CrimsonAssassin 02:51, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for voting this althist to be featured!

RandomWriterGuy 21:56, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Answers
So long as you don't ask me a series of questions too often, you're fine.

Anyhoo....

1. There is no way that it would never get discovered - at most, delayed a couple centuries. As for the ingredients not existing, then there would be no life on the planet.

2. If she had died or never been born..... France would be split between the UK, Small French States, and Burgundy today.

3. The only way that such a thing is at all possible is if they encountered no resistance at all from Japanese forces in the Solomans. But that's very ASB. Even if that were not the case, the war would get extended by a few years.

4. Honestly, not too much. The impact of that thing is, honestly, exaggerated. About the only net effect is that Parliament has less of a leg to stand on, early on. I guarantee you, however, that a similar document would eventually have been signed eventually.

5. Norwegians conquer England, and raids in France last longer. England, however, has no real "claim" to northern France, so less war between the two, until France collapses much like otl.

6. They'd work their way into southern France, and the Carolingian Empire fights another civil war. Anything past that is not likely to happen.

7. Would have been slaughtered, or pressured into basically nothing - see what wikipedia has to say about Catharism and the Waldensians. Luther came along at exactly the right time to work. Net result is a minor sub-sect of Protestantism, at best, and more likely just a lot of dead people.

Lordganon 02:38, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Jeez Bob, lol.

More answers:

1. Heh. More or less the same thing was actually said otl, lol. Wouldn't have an impact.

2. President pro tempore of the United States Senate Benjamin Wade would have become president. Reconstruction would have sparked revolts with its new version as instituted by Wade, given his views. Republicans lose election of 1868 due to a party division, with the man they lose to probably being George H. Pendleton, and Grant does not run until 1872. He'd probably win then and serve his terms.

3. He wouldn't have been impeached for it - while it was a major issue, even if it had failed to pass it wouldn't have happened. The most that could have resulted from it was him losing the 1832 elections - but even that is unlikely, given the margin of victory.

4. Someone would eventually help the Cubans gain independence, and Spain would probably keep PR. Japanese take control over the Philippines and the other Spanish possessions in the East either through conquest or purchase. Spain goes to hell ala 1930s otl long before that decade.

5. Execution for witchcraft, or something, within hours of starting to preach.

6. Slightly slower expansion of the faith in Rome, and a different person becomes the saint everything is named after.

7. Just another Eastern Church, like, for instance, the Copts. The Ancient Persians religion still is a major religion, and the old empires survive.

8. Wouldn't have been elected.

Lordganon 13:30, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Areas
What areas does the Republic of LV cover? :D Imperium Guy 20:11, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!! :D Imperium Guy 22:18, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Your repiblic was in America, it was more than likely you will finally find new tech!! :D Imperium Guy 14:40, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Map, New Netherland, and Pennsylvania
Hello again. How have you been? I haven't heard from you in a long time. I noted you about me completing my map, but you haven't commented. I understand if you are busy (I get the very same way).

Anyway, I also wanted to know what you thought of so far. I also wanted to ask if I could potentially work on the article. I have been doing some reading, and found out that Delaware didn't exist as a separate entity until after the Revolutionary War (particularly after the final establishment of the United States). Prior to which, the three counties of Delaware were administrated by Pennsylvania (known as the Lower Counties). I have been thinking that if the Union never formed, Delaware would not have enough power or might to remain an independent nation, so it would remain part of an independent Pennsylvania. This is an idea, and I would love to get your approval before I progress.

I hope you like the ideas. Peace and love. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:54, November 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much. Also, what do you mean by "most of the other ideas you have had"? Are you referring to my Pennsylvania idea, or did you happen to come across my sandbox? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:23, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Allies vs Axis Revised
"*Soviet representative arrives to your Japanese office.*"

"Dear ruler of Japan. I have brang you bad news. Baltika and some other countries are onto you, but I am here to defend your rights. Here is the plan *shows the plan*. It was offered by Baltika to split Japan and China into several parts. They offered this to me, but this just seems stupid. And since we have very similar ideologies, I will do everything to defend chinese and your rights.

''And a little sidenote. Please keep this meeting as a secret. We don't want anyone to know about it, do we?''"

"*Soviet representatives awaits for Japanese leader's decision*"

"*Hind representatives look up in suprise but say nothing. Info is relayed and the whole country is mobilized for the coming war.*"

Answers
1. Would never have passed. The Slave states held a majority of the Senate votes outright until the late 1840s - and with sympathizing northerners, it would not have passed even in the 1860s. And, too, Arkansas and Louisiana are both west of the Miss too. Heck, until the 1830 Census, the slave states held around 45% of Congress - more than enough to stop such a thing. And that number remains above 35% or so until well after 1860, more than long enough.

2. Liberia was never "given up" by the USA. It was never part of the USA in any way, shape, or form.

3. Muslims had little to do with the decline of that Empire. No net effect.

4. There is really no way that they could do so.

5. Well, there's two trains of thought there. On one hand, no effect. On the other, war continues. Really, even if Jackson loses the battle he, or his forces, will either remain in the area, if not in the city, when news of Ghent arrives. Should have no net effect, really.

6. First, it's actually the Battle of Baltimore - the attack on the fort was only part of it. There's really no way the battle's outcome could change. About the only thing I can think of that could possibly have an effect is if General Ross is not killed by the sharpshooter, but even that I doubt. But, if by some fluke they could win, the net effect is little - the entire campaign was a quick raid.

7. Bloodbath, and more revolts. Slower rise of nationalism, etc.

8. It'd have been partitioned in 1796.

9. The only thing that is possible is to stall it - but they did that otl for decades. Just not possible, when you consider how small they were compared to their neighbors. Picture the USA v.s. (at best) Belgium. No question of the outcome.

10. Biggest news story of the decade? Fat chance of that. The only way anything happens like you describe is if Deep Throat doesn't happen. But even that is doubtful.

Lordganon 23:04, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

2. No. It was once an area that an American Company tried to settle - badly - which eventually declared independence. It was never a colony.

3. Just not possible. If you look at everything against them, there's really nothing they could do.

4. Actual phalanx formations like in Ancient Greece had ceased to be used by this point. The Romans ate the new ones. Phalanxes had an advantage only in small, tightly packed areas. On open ground, they stand little chance. Have a look at comparisons of Roman infantry tactics and Phalanxes - the Phalanxes do not come out on top.

5. The battle made his name more famous for a year, when it had already been well0known from earlier events. His loss at that battle would have almost no effect overall, and he would still likely become president. Didn't forget, it just wasn't relevant.

6. I suspect it would still be written, just with slightly different words. Politics would be highly unlikely.

8. No way. Simply put, the poles had absolutely no power by this time or choice in the matter, and the nation was dissolved by a simple treaty between the three, not even a war. The dissolving of Poland would go about no matter what.

10. I'm of the opinion that he would have gotten nailed somehow anyways - probably it getting found out elsewhere. If not, Ford serves a term before getting whacked in 1980 by someone - not Carter, though.

Lordganon 00:54, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

20/11/2011
1. US government falls at next election, president impeached. North still wins the war.

2. Eastern Europe hated the Jews too, actually. That only pisses off that whole area, making it even worse for the Nazis, and giving the Soviets more resources.

3. South German states stay out of the empire, drift into French or Austrian alliance. German Empire - Prussian would be a better term - drifts to a British alliance.

4. Not possible. For that to happen, there would be changes going back before Napoleon.

5. Never had a strong Central Government. He was more or less powerless the whole time.

6. Invading the Swiss would result in a loss for whatever side tried it. A quick one. Such an invasion would, as any planner of the time could have told you, be incredibly foolish. On their own, the Swiss would not get involved, as there'd be no profit in it. The Swiss, during both World Wars and the Franco-Prussian War, were just as fortified as any of the major defense lines - not unprotected, at all.

7. Google "Fox at the Front" and "Fox on the Rhine" for a clue. Minus the Hitler dead parts, of course.

8. Really, they could not have. Mexico at that time was in chaos. If they did, they get crushed and fail to breach the border in any real way.

9. Probably pull back to Alexandria, hold them there. Maybe an uprising in Cairo, but I doubt it - the chance of that is always overinflated.

10. Humans are "H. sapiens sapiens" - there are other kinds, namely "H. sapiens idaltu." So it would be another version of "H. sapiens (name)" I cannot even begin to speculate of the possibilities here.

Lordganon 05:04, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

27/11/2011
Annoying, more like, lol. Don't worry about it too much.

1. I've no doubt they existed. But, given the actual causes - earthquake, or meteor debris being the favorites - you really can't prevent their destruction. Their role, however, was exaggerated. By my guess, if an ASB saves them, there is no real effect - rather than another city take the salt mines, they keep them.

2. The old religions from otl remain in force.

3. Smarter start to the French Wars in the 1760s, and the American Revolution, if not butterflied, is likely lost by the colonists.

4. Mao's approach is irrelevant to the split. If you look at relations between them, that it was only a matter of time is pretty obvious. Their goals are so different that this must be the case.

5. Then someone else, likely the Etruscans, takes their place.

6. Independent Bavaria for a time, then crushed worse than otl by the mid-1920s.

7. Really, the odds of Spain succeeding even with that army is unlikely. Holding down a rebellious people is not easy, after all. By my guess, the Scots invade in support of the English - their king, after all, while not formally the heir, was in all but name. The Spanish eventually are forced out and to seek peace.

8. Wouldn't have been a surrender. All it does is cause them to lose that war. Betting money says they win the next one.

9. That Operation never actually happened. The politicos agreed to put him into power on their own. What did you mean by this?

10. It never takes root in Rome. The center, rather than Italy, probably ends up being in India. Areas in the east that turned Muslim otl likely end up Christian.

Lordganon 06:17, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

1. Doubtful. Not like they're the only salt mines.

4. That occurred later on. It's more so a matter of issues between the two going back to the Russian Empire. True, there are some differences in doctrine, but that's a Mao thing - and if you change his opinions, he loses the civil war because the peasants support the Nationalists instead of him.

5. No, not really. The influence was much more so the other way around. Their tactics and ways were pretty close to the Romans, so the wars with Carthage would probably end about the same.

6. Everyone already was doing that. No net effect.

7. South America had been discovered for more than 80 years by the time of the Armada, and controlled entirely by the Iberian powers for more than 50. The only net change there would be that a bit more of North America ends up being French like Quebec.

9. There's been a fair amount of debate on that. But, in all likelihood, the coup goes forward and he comes to power. Maybe a few small socialist - they were the ones in opposition to the invite otl - rebellions, but nothing too major should happen.

Lordganon 15:26, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

re: War of the Gods
Any time. I had actually fixed that right before I got that message, so needless to say it's all good now. CrimsonAssassin 02:55, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

RE:War of the Gods
The problem is not that it is too far back, that is not the problem at all. The problem is that it is not alternate history, as it basically says "instead of our world, we have this world", and is not based in real history. All of those timelines are based in real history, no matter how far in the past. Yours isn't based in anything. LurkerLordB 03:22, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

No, it still isn't alternate history, its "What if Aliens came and made the world totally different from how it is". Most ASB that actually has aliens has them going into history and interacting with people. Yours just has them appearing and making the world totally different, with nothing related to real history at all. Furthermore, your ridiculous story of the Alien Space bats and the space mcdonalds turns your map game into some sort of unfunny spoof of itself. You just need to give up and realize that you aren't going to be able to use that idea. LurkerLordB 03:36, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

States of America 3
I'll accept your offer. You can send CU troops through Superior and I'll act suprised. Just make sure you stay away from the captial in Illinois. Kdavis005 02:26, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

13FS?
Please forgive me for bringing this up, but you seem to be preoccupied with map games and other timelines. It has been well over a month since I asked you to clarify your last message to me. Again, forgive my wording, so let me get to the point. I have been showing interest in other parts of the timeline, mostly cleaning up articles, but I also show interest in updating and minor alterations to the timeline. However, I have absolutely no intentions of going beyond my limit, or what you see as the limit. I for one, have had several experiences of users going completely over what I expected of them (just the past two months alone), so I do not want to become a hypocrite.

Because of this, I would be grateful if you would consider me becoming the caretaker of this timeline. I believe I could help bring the timeline up to standard, and I would love to work on it as if it were my own. If not, I completely understand, and I will never bother you on this subject again. Thank you again, and I would greatly appreciate your response. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:49, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you so very much. I will make mention of this on the main talk page. If I do have any questions, I will let you know. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:19, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

No Americas Map Game
russia thanks you for the support and help and sends 20.000 to help what they can for the submirine or whatever you where making

American Empire
The United States of America: The USA will help Luoisina achieve its freedom if Louisiana joins the USA, or at least gives the parts of Louisina north of the Arkansas or Missouri Rivers to the USA, then the USA will support Louisiana. France is aksed if the USA can purchase Luoisianas freedom and still maintain friendly Franco-American relatioins. US citizens and officials still remember the valient services of France in gaining Americas independance. Otl Labarador and Newfoundland will be given to France if it accepts Louisinas freedom. Settlement of Canada, the American West, and unclaimed Canada continues. DeanSims 15:27, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

ok i will support you against France but I think I can keep France turn another cheek if I give them Newfoundland. The just suffered a Revolution, and as much as it pains me to say it, Britain will most likely join the fray against France and retake India. The USA proposes the below borders for the USA and Louisiana: DeanSims 16:31, December 29, 2011 (UTC)