Talk:Axis vs Allies Revised (Map Game)

Okay, so the way to make a poll (which I think is what you mean with the "Voting chart thing", would be this:

Which is a lie?

1. Cheese

2.Pie

3. Cake

This would turn, with wiki format, into:

Which is a lie?

1. Cheese

2.Pie

3. Cake

Fed (talk) 21:25, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oh I just wrote that a while ago when I was still wet behind the ears in this Wiki. I know how to do that now. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:34, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, nevermind then, lol. Fed (talk) 21:36, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Map
Fed, could you fix the map? I can’t access MS Paint right now, so. . . PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:36, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I did it. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 00:21, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

The map is worng, Germany and Poland divvied up Czechoslovakia, so it doesn't exist.

Maps wrong again. Russia should have all of Sakhalin Island. Azecreth 19:13, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Lithuania and Hungary are both part of Poland, no borders dividing them... Leninist 21:37, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

When do we start?
When do we start the game?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 07:35, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for starting the game right now, but nobody said when the game could start and we needed to start before all the players abandoned because it was taking too long for start.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 09:20, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Espionage
I really think we need to fgure out how this is ging to work in the game, because I know that at least for Soviet Russia, their espionage apparatus was very important in the war, and afterwards, besides the Soviet infiltration of the American atomic program. Azecreth 18:19, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. But just for clarity, what are the "Trucial States"? PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 20:02, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

The Trucial States. I did talk to him and ask him if he could be something more important, but he didn't respond. Azecreth 20:27, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Its the UAE Scandinator 08:13, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Maps
I'll create maps at the end of every five years, starting at 1945. Sorry if I can't do it more often, but with school and everything… Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 20:57, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Start
The game has started. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:26, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Question
Hello, if I miss a turn, do I still only post in the new year that's started or can I also post in the previous year that i missed? 9 もりや すわこ 08:34, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

If it's because they totally skipped over a half year or year whenyou weren't on,then I would. Actually, I propose a new rule that we can't move onto the next half-year untilall the majors, USA, USSR, UK, Germany, France, Italy, and Japan have all posted Azecreth 11:30, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * So therefore I can also post under the year 1935 since I seemed to have missed that year if its okay (i was not here at the time)? 9 もりや すわこ 11:33, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think so, yes. Azecreth 11:40, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I made the turn for 1935 as well. Let me know if any one objects to this and if there are, I'll remove my post from 1935 then. 9 もりや すわこ 11:47, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello. I never played a map game before, but I was wondering if I could join this game. Draycos 03:04, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Map 1935
Since no real territorial changes took place up to 1935, I am not going to make a map. However, this is a warning to User:Laptop Zombie. You are permitted only one nation. Further infractions will result in removal from the game. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 19:03, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

I am so happy that you started the map game again. By the way, could I be India? :D Imperium Guy 21:29, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, you can. You just have to declare independence from the UK if you do. 9 もりや すわこ 21:42, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

2 Questions

I have 2 questions. 1. How do I begin? Do I just edit the list of nations to include mine or do I have to get a mod to do it?

2. Is there any free nation any of you would recommend as such? Any big nation that needs someone controlling it?

Australia, Agentina, Saudi Arabia, Algeria (French colony), Canada, Egypt, Spain, Chile, Mexico and Brazil are avalible.Oxfordshire 1972 08:24, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

You've GOT to change Russia or China's color. They look too similar. CrimsonAssassin 14:33, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Russia MUST be red. No other color is permissible!.Azecreth 14:36, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why would the USSR need to be red? But even if we do colour it red it would look to similar to the British Empire. ChrisL123 14:57, August 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it's the communist in me speaking. Red is the color of cdommunism, so the bringer of the proletarian revolution must be red. Although, we could always make the British Empire a more pinkish color, although that may be hard to see. It's really up to Kenny, who is the map maker.Azecreth 15:06, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

I did.Oxfordshire 1972 14:49, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Heh, for the first few countries I picked colors from the country's flags, meaning Britain or the US would have to be red, but I gave that up after awhile. Oxford, please do not upload a new file. It's extremely inconvenient, upload over the old file if you have to. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 16:03, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Baltic Conflict
Ok guys, its getting crazy. I propose we roll back the game to before Laptop Zombie invaded me, since that should never have happened in the first place. Lets have a vote of moderators Roll back the game to before the Baltic invasion of Russia? 1.Yes 2.No --Azecreth 16:42, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry dont count one vote for yes I dindnt read what azcareth wrote i ust saw the poll and jumped in...sorryLxCaucassus 18:03, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, the Baltic war was turning in to an unreal slaugter like WW1 and images of the Somme, Ypres, ect are fresh in the then peopl's mindes.Oxfordshire 1972 19:09, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can't vote since I haven't been approved for mod but this war's been getting way out of hand. If we keep this up it'll turn into an alternate WW2 or something, with the UK being on the "Axis". ChrisL123 19:15, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Non Baltic posts are fine. The Canadian volentears and Venesualan blokade runners in Spain are ok. Thiland and Hindustan are ok to. Just junk the Baltic posts.Oxfordshire 1972 19:30, August 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Now that it is difinitive and all approved mods have voted 3-2 for yes to revert it can it be done?LxCaucassus 19:38, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * 1937 was wriiten by a war waky.86.29.75.205 19:39, August 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * By the decidision of the admins, all events subsequent to 1935 have been retconned, as well as the Baltic invasion in that year. Let's learn something from this, people. Azecreth 19:41, August 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * It wurra a bit crazy and daft. 213.232.79.131 08:24, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Changing countries
Is it possible for me to change from Canada to France and the French Empire? This is my second map game and I'm not sure if that's allowed or not. ChrisL123 20:13, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's ok. Just don't cobntrol Canada after you switchAzecreth 20:25, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Turns
Something's seriously wrong with the turns. People are posting twice a turn! I tried to change and rollback it and clean it up, but I really can't. So from now on, post once per day. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 20:16, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * That not only the problem. There were also some people who posted other peoples turns as well (due to a reset vote). And an IP "82.27.18.57" also re-posted my turn (and some other people turns) that was taken off due to a reset. I think that some should watch the edit history to see what's going on so if there are problems, the edit history can be checked to see what happened...... 9 もりや すわこ 20:23, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Could Rebelsoldier be back, you guys said he just kept making accounts, maybe hes skipping the account so its harder to track him. Its just a thought,
 * DeanSims 20:46, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Cuban Civil War
Just part of my nation's history. It'll be resolved shortly. BTW: This is my second nation that I'm throwing into civil war on this wiki. lol! CrimsonAssassin 23:49, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Nations
Can I take control of the Republic of Ireland ? The player controlling has made no postsWhitesight 00:27, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

If he hasn't posted by Wednesday, it'd be fine with me. He might be one of those users who doesn't sign in often and just edits anonymously. CrimsonAssassin 00:32, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Ok thank you74.65.225.2 02:39, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Whitesight, welcome to the game. CrimsonAssassin 20:36, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Recent UK thing
I'm not a mod so I can't make an implausibility vote, but this UK taking over the Netherlands thing is ridiculous. There's no reason at all for the UK to attack and take over the Netherlands and her colonies. The residents, the crown, no one would stand for this. The UK and the Netherlands were allies,  in WWII. I request a mod make a vote to retcon this whole incident. ChrisL123 20:21, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

The UK has been very implausible recently, really. Fed (talk) 21:04, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

It also claimed to take ALL of Hispaniola and part of East Cuba in half a year. As a mod, I vote to retcon that too. CrimsonAssassin 21:58, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:02, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Mod powers, ACTIVATE! CrimsonAssassin 22:03, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

All right, lets put it to a moderator vote. Revert the UK's conquests of the Netherlands, Hispaniola, and East Cuba? 1.Yes 2.No

We have a majority of the moderators voting for revert. So shall it be. While I'm at it, I'd like to ask if we could get some decision about Chris and Bobalugee being mods. Azecreth 02:31, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know Chris well enough to support or decline his nomination. Bobalugee, however, I support. CrimsonAssassin 02:58, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I vote to retcon the part conquest of Saudi Arabia. Why attack Saudi and 50% conquered 1/2 a year! The desert would slow things down badly and Arabs are brave fighters, who would not allow ANYONE to occupied Mecca unless they were Islamic (in this game Turkey and the Trucial States are the only Islamic nations with a User). Hispaniola and East Cuba are OK, but were to easily won over. Resistance fighters would have occurred. No one would allow the UK’s conquest on the Netherlands. As a British citizen I know the Netherlands, Belgium and UK were close allies in the World Wars and the Cold War.. Oxfordshire 1972 09:13, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

All right, lets put it to a moderator vote. Revert the UK's conquests of northern Saudi Arabia? 1.Yes 2.No

All right. With a majority, the invasion of Saudi Arabi is retocnned as well. Azecreth 13:40, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Rebelsoldier
Oh my, could he be BACK???? Dean, who is playing as GB, is displaying HUGE implausibility. Could he be REB???? PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:19, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

He is not 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% as implausible america reb. If he was even 1/10 as bad 1/2 the universe whould be GB and the CSA whould exist (after he destroyd the americans with a massive nuclear stike, after discovering nukes in 1936, and after he recruited Optimus Prime). Bobalugee1940 21:24, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Well, perhaps he learned after he got banned. . . But anyhow, I’m convinced you’re right. If it were him, he’d probably have paid The Fallen to destroy New York and sent an astronaut to Alpha Centauri. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:25, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Rebel messaged me on Future History, claiming he wasn't as bad and he was tired of being banned. Of course, he immediately made a map game called Second American Civil War. CrimsonAssassin 22:01, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

I know he was implausable from what you guys told me, but that doesnt mean that Im him. If you guys dont believe me, I herby retire my control of Great Britain.

DeanSims 14:28, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I believe you. You just need to promise no more implausibility. CrimsonAssassin 14:57, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Anschluss
It is plausible to annex Austria at this point, as happened in OTL?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 15:22, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Not really. remember, the authoritarian elements of the Austrian government lost the Civil War. I suppose you coud think up some sort of excuse for occupation though. Azecreth 15:29, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

The Name is here
World War II is finally drawing near. The Axis and Allies are being drawn up. Be ready to fight. Germany might be allied while France and Soviet Union might be the Axis or visa versa. The name of the game is here. Imperium Guy 20:55, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Mapmaking
DK is making maps every 5 years, but that is not enough. That is 10 turns, and by that time, anything could have happened. So I propose that Oxfordshire and Dean become "apprentice" mapmakers under DK. If they make mistakes, you have authority over them. But here is how it would work: Oxford would make a map once every 3 turns, then after another 3 turns, it would be Dean, then in another 3 turns, DK. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:10, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Do people think Tibet is in China 1. Yes 2. No

Imperium Guy 21:46, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Tibet wasnt incorporated into china untill the communist revolution of 1949...in ten years time...70.81.81.33 04:38, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Are we talking about OTL or the ATL Tibet?Oxfordshire 1972 08:13, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

ATL. Imperium Guy 09:31, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

It was cinqured by China in the 1937 ATL year, it's in the text.Oxfordshire 1972#
 * China seeks to purchase Burma from Britain using funds seized from the remnants of the Communist Party. China having finished modernising its military demonstrates its effectiveness by reconquering Tibet over the year. China moves its capital to a more central Wuhan. Chinese troops offer to help the Vietnamese in return for Laos and Cambodia.

But it is always shown independent. This is to finalize that all maps will have tibet independent on a part of China. Imperium Guy 11:39, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Why??? I conquered it. It should be mine. Tibet has also been a part of China during the entire Qing dynasty... Also Britain just conquered the middle east and those territories were added straight away... Plus your not even a mod you dont have the power to stop tibet being mine. Scandinator 11:44, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't trying to do that. All I wanted to do was that people would add Tibet to China and I am definitely NOT trying from you having Tibet. It is just so that people add Tibet to China, that is all. Ta!! :D Imperium Guy 16:22, September 2, 2011 (UTC).

Tibet is Chinese. But if Hindustan wishes parts of the Britsh Middle East will be given to it.

DeanSims 16:45, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

What in the world? There's no way that the KMT would be rich enough in 1930s to buy another country (I don't think the CPC war chest has that much funding). Then again, this is ATL China, but still. Also, I think in this game, Tibet should be independent at this time, since the region is controlled by warlords. Revisionist 19:57, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

He ended the Civil War, funneled money into the army, and invaded the Tibetan nation. It's completely plausible. Fed (talk) 19:59, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Right... Cause Chang Kai Shek was able to fully modernize his army with the aid of the Sino-German relations, end the factionalism that weakened his rule beyond provinces that surrounded Jiangsu, and not be occupied with Japanese aggression. Revisionist 20:13, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

I had German AND US support and also seized the funds of the CPC and corrupt KMT members. After modernising the economy and pulling out of civil war, China then started to experience MASSIVE economical growth just like in OTL. With stable legislation the KMT is not hurting the Chinese economy with things like a 'Cultural Revolution' like in OTL. Thus China's economy ATL is roughly at the level of 1970 OTL. China also has the largest population base and thus most manpower allowing the fastest growth. The Chinese when empowered could do almost anything!! They actually in OTL built a dam in two years without cranes and many other modern construction tools. Scandinator 06:05, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Room for one more?
Any countries which I could take over so I could join this game? --VonGlusenburg 17:53, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm thinking of assuming control of Portugal if that is all right? --VonGlusenburg 17:55, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hello. I never played a map game before, but I was wondering if I could join this game aslo. I would like to play as Iceland if possible. Draycos 21:13, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey, Draycos. All you have to do is edit the "nations" section and add in Iceland at the end and sign with three tildes (~) after it and you'll be able to play. ChrisL123 21:31, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * May I suggest Yugoslavia or Brazil??Scandinator 05:55, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

How do you use the random.org get the no player nations to sell you land? Draycos

You can only take plausable amounts, there is no Greece buys Siberia for 1 million pounds. If it is a plausable request where there is 50% chance of acceptance, then go to random.org and click generate. if the number is 1-25 or 51-75 its a yes and all other numbers are no. This requires a lot of trust so do not abuse it, we want this map game to be enjoyable for everyone!! :D Scandinator

I went on to random.org to see if could get Lanka, which was possible due to the alliance with the UK and it generated a 9. Therefore, using the above generator code, I now have possetion of Lanka. Ta!! :D Imperium Guy 11:41, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

Can I have Brazil or Argentina? Preferably Brazil. 195.195.166.57 15:25, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Cuba/American War 1943
I am going to be using a modified version of Principia Moderni’s war algorithm to determine wars. Here is the results for the Cuban/American War.

United States
Location: 3 (Close to location of war)

Tactical Advantage: 1 (Attacker’s advantage)

Strength:


 * 1) 2 (Greater population)

Motive: 6 (Social/moral)

Chance: 6 (Random.org)

Alliances: 8

Grand Total: 25 points

Cuba
Location: 5 (At location of war)

Tactical advantage: 4 (Island)

Strength: 0

Motive: 10 (Life or death)

Chance: 4 (Random.org)

Alliances: 2

Grand Total: 25 points

Result
Stalemate: US controls 1/4 of Eastern Cuba, Cuba gets parts of Yucatan and the rest of Cuba. Unlike in Principia Moderni, we will have this every turn of conflict.

That will be it for now; we may change a little more later.

United States of America
Location: 3

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 2

Motive: 6

Chance: 3

Alliances: 8

Total: 23

Cuba
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 4

Strength: 0 (USSR is supplying weapons to Cuba. Does that count?)

Motive: 10

Chance: 3

Alliances: 4

Total: 26

Result:
Decisive Cuban Victory. American forces are expelled from Cuba.

USA
Location: 3

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 2

Motive: 6

Chance: 8

Alliances: 8

Total: 28

Cuba
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 4

Strength: 0

Motive: 10

Chance: 9

Alliances: 4

Total: 32

Result
Cuban waters are clear. Cuba is able to proceed in Mexico

USA
Location: 3

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 2

Motive: 6

Chance: 6

Alliances: 8

Total: 26

Cuba
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 4

Strength: 0

Motive: 10

Chance: 9

Alliances: 4

Total: 32

Result
Cuban waters remain clear. Cuba continues to take territory in Mexico

War Algorithm
Here it is, online.

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict.


 * At the war: 5


 * Next to the war: 4


 * Close to the war: 3


 * Far from the war: 2


 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1


 * Defender’s advantage: 2


 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3


 * Island: 4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3


 * Side with greater population: 2


 * Side with greater industry: 2
 * Nuclear Arsenal: 10

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10


 * Religious: 7


 * Social/moral: 6


 * Political: 5


 * Economical: 3

Chance
Random.org

Alliances

 * Every ally: 2

Discussion
just one question: what happens if one country has nukes?

Maybe put nukes as plus 10 and the other country's motive is instantly 10. I also think maybe one algoritm for every front??? Scandinator 23:48, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

If the attacker gets a +1 advantage and the defender gets a +2 advantage, why not just make it so the defender gets +1 or something? CrimsonAssassin 21:04, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think just having a nuclear arsenal would really have that much say. I think it should be USE of nuclear arsenal for +10.

Sino-Japanese War 1943
Here goes one for every front as the conditions across the war zone as incredibily different.

China
Total: 42
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 14

Japan
Total: 12
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * Allies: 0

China
Total: 42
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Allies: 14

Japan
Total: 15
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * Allies: 0

Manchuria

China
Total: 36
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Allies: 14

Japan

 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10

Total: 24
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 0

Result
China wins on all three fronts. Japan is pushed back to pre-war bounduries and Manchuria is invaded by China with troops advancing 500 km north and east.

Sino-Japanese War - 1943.6
Mongolia China Total: 28
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: -2
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * Allies: 14

Japan
Total: 23
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 0

Taiwan
China Total: 35
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Allies: 14

Japan
Total: 23
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Allies: 0

Indonesia
China Total: 30
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * Allies: 14

Japan
Total: 26
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Allies: 0

<h3 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Manchuria China Total: 36
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 22
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6
 * Allies: 0

Result
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China wins on all four fronts. China takes Western Java including Jakata, Northern Taiwan including Taipei, the rest of OTL Mongolia and advances further into Manchuria capturing the entire province of Shengjing including the important cities of Dalian and Shengyang.

Sino-Japanese War - 1944
Taiwan China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 32
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 4
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 25
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 0

Indonesia
China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 36
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 22
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Allies: 0

<h3 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Manchuria China Total: 36
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 16
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Allies: 0

Result
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China wins on all three fronts. China takes Java and Taiwan and advances further into Manchuria capturing the entire province of Inner Mongolia.

Indonesia
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 45
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 34
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 0

<h3 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Manchuria <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 39
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 35
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 0

Result
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China wins on both fronts. China takes Sumutra and Borneo and advances further into Manchuria but no major gains are made.

Indonesia
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 48
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 29
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Allies: 0

<h3 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Manchuria <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 47
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 30 Korea <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 52
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 0
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 35 Okinawa <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 51
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 0
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 35 Result <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China wins on all four fronts decisively. Japan is wiped out of Indonesia, Korea, Okinawa and Manchuria by China.
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Allies: 0

<h2 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Sino-Japanese War - 1945.6

Indonesia
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 53
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 17
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 34
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 0

<h3 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Korea <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 55
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 17
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 31
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6
 * Allies: 0

<h3 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Taiwan <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 55
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: 17
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Allies: 14

Japan
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Total: 30 <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Result <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">China wins on all three fronts decisively. All resistance to Chinese rule in Indonesia, Korea and Taiwan is wiped out.
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Allies: 0

Soviet Union
Location: 4

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 7 [Latvia helping]

Motive: 5

Chance: 5

Alliances: 12

Total: 34

Poland
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 0

Motive: 10

Chance: 7

Alliances: 6

Total: 30

Results
Polish forces suffer a crushing defeat. Lithuania is overrun by Soviet troops, and Warsaw falls after a hard fight. Only Southwestern Poland is still under their control by the end of the half year.

Soviet Union
Location: 4

Tactical Advantage 1

Strength: 4

Motive: 5

Chance: 5

Alliances: 12

Total: 31

Finland
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 0

Motive: 10

Chance: 4

Alliances: 8

Total: 29

Results
Major vctory, but not decisive. Soviets maike large inroads into FInland, but have not won yet.

Germany
What would be the more plausible outcome for Germany with its economy crashed? (i mean, what would happen with the Nazis?)--Collie Kaltenbrunner 17:49, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Their demise?Oxfordshire 1972 19:06, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

New map
Oxfordshire 1972 19:31, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Poland
Who decided the algorithm for the Polish Soviet war? I thinbk it should be redone, a 0 streength for Poland doesn't make sense.

I did. Why? Poland has smaller population, smaller industry. Poland doesn't have aany other allies helping. If we were ignoring that and based it on pure strength, I would steamroll Poland, and would have conquered all of it already. Azecreth 19:24, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

SUMA membership means supporting other members' Military in some way. Finnish, Swedish and Norwegians have to support poland in some way, tanks or air support or whatnot.LxCaucassus 19:52, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

But he was a Junior member, and had only been for half a year. Coordination would not have been as great, as well as Scandinavian union in the military. Besides, with me attacking Finland, where do all those Finnish troops go? Straight back to hte Mother country, to defend their homeland. Azecreth 19:56, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

What Im saying is that the Finnish and Sweedish have had a longer alliance so Sweden would definately help Finland as it did in the Winter War, Im not complaining yet because I have great plans for next year. What Im saying is that aid in some way has to be provided, FInland is buisy in the Homeland but naval support can be provided byu sweden and air support by finland. NOrway can give air support aswell. Co-Ordination would not be great this turn so I am not complaining about the 0 but next turn it will be better so you can add one suporter on each fromt or something.LxCaucassus 20:03, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

I can do that, but if you nuke me, then there will definitely be no mercy. Azecreth 20:10, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Now that I think about it the Sweeds would have been a definate help for Finland, so I think that's +3 for the Beligrents, if that is true I would have won by 2 points(32 pts)... but whatever lets just wait for next turn so that Sweeden AND Norway will be definate Beligrents, thats +6 and next turn!!!!!LxCaucassus 20:16, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

One more thing: I added Nukes +10 to strength in the algorithm as discussed in the Discussion part of the Algorithm SectionLxCaucassus 20:32, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should use this algorithim as it is too complicated. I prefer the mods. :/ Imperium Guy 21:14, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

I agreewith Imperium Guy's prefrence for the mods.Oxfordshire 1972 03:39, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Either way we still need to do one for 1944.6.LxCaucassus 11:01, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Soviet Union
Location: 3

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 10 [Latvia and Lithuania helping]

Motive: 5

Chance: 4

Alliance: 14

Total: 37

Poland
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 3

Motive: 10

Chance: 8

Alliances: 6

Total:34

Results
Polish defeat. Country is fully occupied by USSR.

Soviet union
Location: 4

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 4

Motive: 10

Chance: 7

Alliances: 14

Total: 40

Finland
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 6

Motive: 10

Chance: 4

Alliances: 6

Total: 33

Results
Soviets hit hard once again, driving the Finns back, and seizing most of the north.

I did not include nuclear arsenal in the calculations. Why? Becuasdr the Finns only got nuclear weapons this turn. They haven't had time to make an arsenal. And my motive went to 10 because when the Finns detonated that nuke, it made the Soviets realize that they had to win, or they would be nuked until their armies were destroyed. Azecreth 14:17, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

I dont think that it takes that long to create weaponized version of the bomb(wich I believe I stated that I produced). That qualifies as nuclear Arsenal. The US made the bombs dropped on Japan maximum 2 weeks after the Trinity Test, So I believe having a small Arsenal will make sense. I ignored having lost by one point last turn(wich I would have won if somebody added sweedish beligrents) because I would have had nukes this turn, and have won the second part of the war. BTW... Unless China and Poland renounced their alliance to Finland I would not have had 4 ally points, but 8. So in all due Respect I think that the score shoulkd be 45-40 for Finland.LxCaucassus 19:05, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Poland got conqered by me. Their alliance value is removed. You are not the USA. Your nuclear reactors and power plants are being bombed, so you cannot produce more uranium. Even if it in an underground lab, it still needs massive amounts of power. You also only have 3 strategic bombers capable of delivering nukes. And guess what, bombers can get shot down, especially when you are getting hit with at least 5x the amount of planes you have. I will add the China alliance thing. So I think that the score should be where it is. but we can put this to a vote of moderators, just to settle it:

Should Finland have a nuclear arsenal bonus in the Algorithm calculations for this turn? 1.Yes 2.No

Oh yes I forgot one thing: I thought the nukes thing about the opposite nation getting 10 pts is only if the other nation has nukes(aka a nuclear arsenal), so by logic, If Finland does not have a "Nuclear Arsenal", then The USSR has no reason to have 10 as their motive. A nuclear arsenal is basicaly "having nukes", no arsenal=no nukes.In other words: If I dont have the actual nuclear arsenal then I cnat drop the bomb on the USSR therfore your arguement that finland can drop the nuke so the USSR fights harder will be invalidLxCaucassus 23:11, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Soviet-SUMA War of 1945
===<span style="font-size: 12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A">Soviet union <span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A"> === <p style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Location: 4

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Tactical Advantage: 1

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Strength: 4

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Motive: 10

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Chance: 5

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Alliances: 14

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Total: 38 ===<span style="font-size: 12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A">Finland <span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A"> === <p style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Location: 5

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Tactical Advantage: 2

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Strength: 16

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Motive: 10

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Chance: 8

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Alliances: 6

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#3A3A3A;background:white">Total: 47

Result
Decisive SUMA victory, the Suma forces expell the soviets From Finland And make large inroads into the Soviet Union

Disscussion
I know Im not a mod but somehow i dont trust Azcareth to be the only one doing the Soviet-somebody algorithms. I think that im competant enough to press the generate buton on random.org and add 10 to the SUMA forces strength for nuking the soviets. BTW even if the soviets detonate a nuke on thier soil this turn because in the logic of the 1944.6 algorithm they wont have time to build a nuclear arsenal. Please correct me if I did something wrong in the soviet strength because somebody was helping.LxCaucassus 00:35, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

By the way, Finland didn't ever adore the Viking gods so Thor and Odin aren't proper names for the nukes. Fed (talk) 02:44, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry- you can trust Azecreth. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:13, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Algorithym
Do we need it? 1.Yes 2.No Imperium Guy 09:44, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Did you even get permission to make this vote?

Why would I need to, this is a talk page and it is asking public (players) opinion. Imperium Guy 17:22, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Oh I thought it was a mod vote

It is really the only way to prevent people from making implausible claims against players. We need the algorythm. CrimsonAssassin 14:24, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

But the problem is that it overestimates the strength of the smaller nations. The USA should steamroll Cuba, regardless of the algorithm. Azecreth 14:27, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Remember the Bay of Pigs? Don't think the US steamrolled Cuba LxCaucassus 14:53, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

You don't steamroll a nation simply because you're the USA. CrimsonAssassin 15:01, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

No, you steamroll them because you are a major industrial power with a population at least 10 times bigger than the guy you are fighting, and you haven't recently suffered a devastating Civil War. And the Bay of Pigs isn't a good example. That was Cuban volunteers,trained by the CIA,operating without US support whatsoever. Not the US Army. If it had been, Castro wouldn't have stood a chance. Azecreth 15:22, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that the algorythm needs changes, but we can't just do away with it. It prevents people from saying, "Hurr hurr I destroy your navy and I don't even lose a ship hurr hurr." CrimsonAssassin 15:37, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I think the poll should be for a less complicated but more accurate algorhithym. So mods covering one area while the algorhithym covering a few others. Imperium Guy 17:22, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

China-Japan war.


I think China is moving a bit to fast in Indoniasia. Japanies were dogged and determined OTL soldiers and Indonisia gets realy climate hellish (who other than natives has not got dengue feaver or maleria in New Guinea, in the OTL 1940's).Oxfordshire 1972 10:34, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Japan took it over a period of 3 months OTL. I have spent 2 years taking Indonesia!!! Scandinator

But Japan had help from Indonesians who wanted independence from their European masters. Azecreth 13:50, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I only held off New Guinea and a Molluca island. You could have it in 1945.6.Oxfordshire 1972 16:05, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I attacked East Timor, the country next to Papua New Guinea, why didn't anybody add that? Imperium Guy 17:39, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I mean New Guinea. Imperium Guy 17:44, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

China has help from the Indonesians too as China offers them independance from all nations as soon as the war is over with the condition that China is allowed to keep four military bases one on each of the main isalnds and also the port of Penang.

United States
Location: 3

Tactical advantage: 1

Strength: 8

Motive: 6

Chance: 7

Alliances: 6

Grand Total: 31

Cuba
Location: 5

Tactical advantage: 6

Strength: 4

Motive: 10

Chance: 3

Alliances: 2

Grand Total: 30

Result
American victory, but not decisive. America takes part of Cuban Mexican land.

Discussion
Cuba has two alliances; Venezuela and USSR. CrimsonAssassin 22:23, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, now that I see it, America also had two more allies that I had missed, so the result is the same. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:24, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

China is allied to Cuba Scandinator

Nukes
Here's my proposal: +10 for each nuke used, but a -3 in motive for the next 3 turns. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:27, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Fed (talk) 23:19, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I also think that if a nation uses nukes, the other nation’s motive should be automatically upgraded to 10, and if they are already 10, +2. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:28, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

UN
Should the UN be created now? Should UN be created? Yes No

United States
Location: 3

Tactical advantage: 11 (Use of nuclear weapon)

Strength: 4

Motive: 3 (-3 for use of nuke)

Chance: 2

Alliances: 10

Grand Total: 30

Cuba
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 4

Strength: 0

Motive: 12 (+2 for use of nuke)

Alliances: 4

Chance: 2

Grand Total: 27

Results
Close American victory, resulting in the rest if the Mexican East coast being secured against the Cubans, with support from the Mexican natives, cutting off Cuban troops in the rest of Mexico. The Panama Canal is also closed to Cuban ships, and a blockade of Cuba commences.

Soviet-SUMA war, 1945.5
Sorry if I didn't do it correctly, it's my first algorythm. I made it since nobody seems to care and make it. Fed (talk) 00:01, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Soviet Union
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 14 (nuclear weapons from Italy at the USSR's disposal)

Motive: 10 + 2

Chance: 4

Alliances: 14

Total: 50

Finland
Location: 4

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 16

Motive: 10+2

Chance: 6

Alliances: 6

Total: 46

Result
Soviet victory. The Soviets regain the upper hand in the war thanks to Italian aid. The Soviet Union is able to recover its lost territory, and makes small inroads into Karelia, Petsamo and maybe Finnmark.

Maps
From now on, categorize maps as Maps (Axis vs Allies), not maps.

PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:04, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

OKOxfordshire 1972 17:08, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

1940's Mexico crisis
Split it temporaly, hold elections and reunite it as an indipendent state in 1947 or 1948?Oxfordshire 1972

Soviet-SUMA war of 1946
====<span class="mw-headline" id="Soviet_Union_6" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Soviet Union Edit ==== Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 14 (nuclear weapons from Italy at the USSR's disposal)

Motive: 10 + 2

Chance: 2

Alliances: 14

Total: 48 ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Finland_4" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Finland Edit ==== Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 16

Motive: 10+2

Chance: 7

Alliances: 6

Total: 48

Result
A stalemate, fronts stay at pre-war boundries, the war develops into trench warfare for the half year.

<h2 style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">New map.

1946.Oxfordshire 1972 10:20, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Those arent pre-war Soviet-Finnish borders, that means the 1940/1939 border.

'''Finns fixed and Mexico fixed. Do we follow th Algarithum or not. What is in cannon?Oxfordshire 1972 04:00, September 16, 2011 (UTC)'''

United States
Location: 3

Tactical advantage: 1

Strength: 34

Motive: -9

Chance: 8

Alliances: 8

Grand Total: 41

Cuba
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 4

Motive: 12

Chance: 8

Alliances: 4

Grand Total: 33

Result
Overwhelming American victory, America takes more of Cuban Mexico. Blockade of Cuba commences.

Finland and the UN
The Finnish agree to be part of the UN. The SUMA powers ask that a spot be reserved for them on the permanant council(youll see what that means im planning to do something to the suma creating a EU-type thing)...and why is France a perm member anyway, they didnt win or take part in any wars, dont have nukes and isnt even a player-stateLxCaucassus 22:58, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

It is a "player state"... ._.

Also, Pita officially used random.org, not any reasons. I'm personally opposed to any permanent SC, but meh. Fed (talk) 00:22, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

New Carribean Union Flag
Once I get my country back on its feet after the war, I'll sort of give it a redo (by that, I mean completely change the nation around, since it's no longer JUST Cuba. New capital, new important cities, new flag). So far, I've got a flag done. Any suggestions? CrimsonAssassin 23:20, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Cool flag sir.14:30, September 17, 2011 (UTC)86.26.73.29 14:30, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Mass Roleback
I doubt there would be so many nuclear wars. This is why I propose that all nuclear wars are rollbacked, because it really is implausible that people would be this... loose with nuclear bombs. Really. CrimsonAssassin 23:26, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Convert the nucliar atacks in to convesional fierstorm raids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II. Oxfordshire 1972 03:57, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

God, no, that'd be even worse. I support the rollback. Fed (talk) 02:38, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

It started 7 turns back and apers to have been held as canon. So much as happened since like the NPT and Tokyo Memorial Garden.Oxfordshire 1972

Mini roll baker.
Ax it after Egpyt was anexed by the UK. It went war wako and nucliar crazy.82.11.84.210 16:31, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Nuclier winter avoided.
It takes 50 or so 15KT bombs to cause one and we have only let of 14 or so of 2.1./1.5.KT yet I think its only a bad winter and no hot summer+ several years of cancers in 1948. You were lucky! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter! (P.S. sea brst is in theory less fall out making than land or air burst- no blazing towns, etc.Oxfordshire 1972 15:33, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

For the record you guys, nuclear winter has been proven to be largely a case of misinformation. Of all the atomic weapons that have gone off, only one has ever had an effect that even leads to the sun being interfered with - Hiroshima. Believed to have been because it was incredibly dry there at the time. The effects are also always over-stated.

You are looking at a slight drop, if any - no more than a couple degrees Fahrenheit, even with hundreds of them. And the following summer would in fact be warmer.

A bunch of 15kt bombs going off will have no effect at all.

Lordganon 19:46, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Our ATL can only take another 35 or so major cities nuked until a major nuclear winter. Models show that if in OTL now, Pakistan and India had a nuclear war with 50 cities hit, then 1.5 billion people (25% of remaining world population of only 6 billion) will die of crop shortages and famines due to a cooling of 3 degrees. The bombs themselves do not cause this as is widely believed; it is the burning of the city resulting from the bomb. Only 20 major cities can hit until some major effects are shown. So... 5 more guys and then we're in major shit... Scandinator

Those models are incorrect. Big time.

As I said, nukes do not have that effect for the most part. It's on the same page, even. Out of 50 15 kt strikes, at most one will throw sufficient smoke into the atmosphere to mess with the sun for an hour.

Your ATL is fine. And looking further down that Wikipedia article would have shown you that.

Lordganon 12:53, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

The 1st posat said '2.1./1.5.KT' were used not 15kt.....82.27.31.95 13:08, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Sources? [http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090405152902AASM7WP][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090405152902AASM7WP][http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6265600][http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/01/nuclear-winter-easier-to-trigger-than-previously-thought-study.php][http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331219][http://www.exitmundi.nl/nukes.htm][http://library.thinkquest.org/17940/texts/nuclear_weapons/nuclear_weapons.html]82.27.31.95 13:55, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

The size is irrelevant, except it that the smaller sizes are tiny by comparison.

You realize that those actually hurt your argument, right? And that what you're trying to do is promote a single flawed study? Note, too, the political nature of the quoted locations.

Simple fact: Of all the nuclear blasts that have gone off, between Japan and tests, only one - Hiroshima - has thrown any significant amount of dust or smoke into the atmosphere and interfered with the Sun at all, for an hour or two. And that's because it was really dry there at the time.

To put it into perspective: a bomb of 13kt hitting a city - one of two, may I add, and the other did not have the effect at all - sent up a small cloud of smoke and blocked the sun for an hour. No tests, even the ones done on artificial cities, or the 50MT Tsar Bomba, sent up plumes like that enough to block the sun, at all.

And you're trying to argue a nuclear winter from that number of tiny blasts? That's ridiculous.

The estimated number of bombs to cause a three-year nuclear winter is 14,000, averaging somewhere between 100-200kt. Simple math, too. By rough calculations, the number of bombs in play here? A day of that winter, at most, which means maybe half a degree, at most, of cooling, that winter, easily countered by a slightly warmer summer.

Lordganon 14:22, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Mexico
I think all cannon has broken down, I'm confused.Oxfordshire 1972 03:57, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Re-Drugie abusers on line86.26.73.29

Computer note.

 * The reason I didn't edit for the past day or so and didn't even post my regular Finland post is because after I posted peace my actual laptop corrupted a system 32 file and I'm only supposed to get it back today. I found a way to edit on my iPhone and tried to find a way right after I found out that Helsinki got nuked... I can't respond to the soviet terms and would have said post winter war and after the nuking desperatly tried to find and found a way to edit on an iPhone... But it does a half assed job at it, I count scroll down to respond so I did so here.

I agree with Finland, my computer was hacked 2 days ago by a Danish IP 62.121.171.34. My F-secure securaty system repulsed a 'Fin-scan' and a Mydoom virose.Oxfordshire 1972 18:42, September 17, 2011 (UTC) That is why nukeing helsinki was redackted, it was a OTL computer falier by Finland's User.Oxfordshire 1972 10:21, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Hindustan and the UK
Hindustan and the UK's expansion have no sense at all. They're just grabbing land with no reason whatsoever and without any consequences. Fed (talk) 18:06, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Hola, it's true!19:08, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

True. we need to make them release some of there colonies to nations. Draycos 00:21, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Iran?12:05, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Zoe?82.27.31.95 12:05, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Italy
Location: 2

Tactical Advantage: 5 (Somalia is desertic.)

Strength: 10 (nuclear weapons from Italy)

Motive: 5

Chance: 7 (random.org)

Alliances: 0

Total: 29

Hindustan
Location: 2

Tactical Advantage: 0 (-2?) (Somalia is desertic)

Strength: 14

Motive: 5

Chance: 1 (random.org)

Alliances: 0

Total: 22 (20?)

Result
Italian victory. Italy is able to regain large amounts of its territory.

Discussion
I do not agree with this, the terrain is fit for all types of Hindustani tanks, we have nuclear weapons which we can bring over, our strength (if you read all of Hindustani posts over the 1/2 years) is more China-like and someone explain what does chance mean? Imperium Guy 11:58, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Chance means that he went to random.org, put in the parameters, and the computer chose a random number between 0 and 10. And the Italians have nukes too. Azecreth 13:42, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Ok and I never said the Italians do not have nukes, just said we do aswell. Imperium Guy 18:59, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

I did include your nuclear weapons. Why do you think Hindustan has 14 strength?! 2 larger pop, 2 larger industry, 10 nukes. THAT'S ALL STRENGTH. Desert removes 3 points from the attacker AT ANY MOMENT, NO MATTER THE TANKS OR WHATEVER. Fed (talk) 21:30, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Italy
Location: 3

Tactical Advantage: 5 (Somalia is desertic.)

Strength: 10 (nuclear weapons from Italy)

Motive: 5

Chance: 4

Alliances: 0

Total: 25

Hindustan
Location: 3

Tactical Advantage: 0

Strength: 14 (reinforcements and nuclear weapons brought over to counter Italian threat)

Motive: 5

Chance: 2

Alliances: 1

Total: 26

Result
Hindustani Victory

Discussion
Ahem. Desert removes 3 points to the attacker, NO MATTER WHAT. Strength isn't changed by reinforcements. It's greater population and industry. Therefore, your algorythm is COMPLETELY NULL AND VOID. Fed (talk) 21:16, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think our industry and who said that deserts make the attacker remove three points ''"no matter what". My algorithym is not 'NULL AND VOID!! Imperium Guy 21:35, September 19, 2011 (UTC)'''

There are laws for the algorythm, you know. Would you actually stick to them instead of creating your own? Fed (talk) 21:38, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Strength depends on ''population, not industry!! ''Also, I would have more motive than you as you are trying to protect your colonies while you are trying to liberate them. The tactical advantage is of the home country which I should known earlier. I will now take all these into account. Imperium Guy 21:46, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Have you even read the algorythm rules?! It's two points more for industry and two more for population. That'd end your strength in the war 14. The tactical advantage is +2 for defending country AND +3 for the defender and -3 for the attacker if it's desert. The motive is political for both, so that has no sense at all. Fed (talk) 21:51, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

No, it is not, mine is social, yours is political. Imperium Guy 21:59, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

It actually is not, since you're basically trying to create either a puppet state or enlarge Ethiopia/your influence, not rid them from a racist system or oppresion (since they don't have it). You also only stated your so-called wish for independence because the UN resolution would be victorious if you didn't convince people to join your side. So no, your motive is 5. Fed (talk) 22:03, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Weel, you just reminded me that I would have Ethiopia as an Ally, therfore, I win this segment. :D Imperium Guy 09:34, September 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, as an opposition to the Hindustani invasion, I will ally Italy, making the score tied. If that's allowed, of course. ChrisL123 19:22, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Archive
Where did all years before 1949 go? - Draycos

They were archived. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:03, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

how do you get to Archive? - Draycos

Here- 1933-1948.6 .Oxfordshire 1972

Soviet Union
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 19 [Added +5 for use of chemical weapons]

Motive: 10

Chance:10

Alliances: 22

Total: 67

SUMA
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 19

Motive: 10

Chance: 8

Alliances: 16

Total: 60

Result
Soviet Victory. With large attacks, soviets pass current border, and move into Finland, toward Helsinki, and central Finland.

Soviet Union
Location: 4

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 20 [Poles helping, +5 chemical weapons]

Motive: 10

Chance: 6

Alliances: 22

Total: 63

Germany
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 2 [I'm not sure if the Germans have nukes or not.]

Motive:10

Chance: 2

Alliances: 14

Total: 33

Result
Crushing Soviet victory. Berlin falls, and much of Eastern Germany is occupied.

Soviet Union
Location: 3

Tactical advantage: -2

Strength: 19 [including chemical weapons]

Motive: 10

Chance:4

Alliances: 22

Total: 56

Britain
Location: 2

Tactical advantage: 5

Strength: 13

Motive: 10

Chance: 3

Alliances: 14

Total: 47

Result
Soviet victory. Soviets drive into Persia, and cut off the supply lines between British Middle East and Hindustan.

Soviet Union
Location: 3

Tactical advantage: 1

Strength: 18 [+5 Chemical Weapons, +2 afghan resistance fighters]

Motive: 10

Chance: 8

Alliances: 22

Total: 60

Hindustan
Location: 4

Tactical advantage: 2

Strength: 22 [chemical weapons, pro-hindustani ressistance fighters]

Motive: 10

Chance: 8

Alliances: 22

Total: 68

Results
Hindustani Victory. Hindustan is able to drive through and reconnect supply lines with the British.

Discussion
Germany doesn't have Nukes. You could have taken in it in weeks due to the economy crash from 1942 to present.

Oi, you cannot add resistance fighters or chemical weapons and if you do want to, you have to add it to Hindustan as well, this would change the situation completely with us being able to push into Persia. Imperium Guy 14:44, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

You forcibly annexed Afghanistan.I don't think the people there like you that much. I can think of one group off the top of my head who wouldn't like you. The Mujahideen. Remember them? Just because you have multiple religions, and Pakistan is still part of India,doesn't mean that everything is kumbaya.

And my attack was into Afghanistan anyway. You don't have a big enough margin to reverse all my gains in Persia. Azecreth 15:03, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Did I say that I was reversing ALL your gains?! All I said was we established a supply line. Ahem, the Mujahideen weren't formed until the 70s and we still would have pro-Hindustani fighters. Your argument is fading away. Imperium Guy 15:12, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

I was using the Mujahideen as an example. You forcibly took over Afghanistan. They won't be happy. Freedom fighters will definitely outnumber pro-occupation fighters. Azecreth 15:16, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Not nessicarily. We have a system of fairness which the Afgani would not want to let go with a forible ruling commitie of the USSR. Imperium Guy 15:21, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

We promised them indpendence. And so shall we give it to them. And it doesn't change the matter that you FORCIBLY TOOK OVER THEIR NATION AGAINST THEIR WILL. Independence > Fairness as part of another Empire. Azecreth 15:33, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

So they all become drug warlords and the women are treated badly, does independence always eclipse fairness?? Imperium Guy 15:36, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

That was a result of radical Islam taking over the nation. It would not be that bad, since Radical Islam hasn't become the political force it is in OTL yet. Azecreth 15:39, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Adjudication?
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;">History proves quantity beats quality in Korea and WW2. Nukes change a lot, killing 1,000s a shot. Climate plays a lot, so Hindustan freezes in Siberia, Russians burn in central and southern India. Terrain has a role in it to. The high Wakhan Mountains and Hindu-Cush are brilliant defensive land, ask the OTL Mujahidin and OTL Taliban. Literally a few guys with mortars, rifles and packhorses can tie down, if not badly damage a tank coulomb or to a lesser extent an infantry unit in the valley below. Jets would beat propeller aircraft. Afghans and Persians are notoriously proud, patriotic, Islamic, anti-foreign colonial rule and determined, ask the OTL Mujahidin, OTL Ayatollah Khomeini and OTL Taliban.

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;">I would a lot the game as follows (assuming I know correctly what is acutely just happened)

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;"># The USSR gets land north of and including the cities of of Qom and Mashand. They take Afghanistan north of north of the rivers Harirud and Hindu Cush mountains

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;"># Hindustan holds the rest of Afghanistan and gains Persia.

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;"># The Afghan part of the Hindu Kush Wakhan Corridor and mountains  is held by local OTL Mujahidin types.

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;"># Tehran Province is held by a local OTL Ayatollah Khomeini type priest and his militia.

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;"># Finland and Germany are ok, they did not need adjudication.

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;">Oxfordshire 1972 19:18, September 23, 2011 (UTC)