Talk:Differently

Hello Esbonl, I think your new timeline has a whole lot potential. I am unsure if you would like having collaborators or you would prefer to build your world by yourself, but if you desire any aid on your project I am from the United States America and have lived on both sides of the Mason- Dixon line.

If you would be interest in my help just message me, with a guide of how you would like the USA and CSA to develop in this OTL.

If not good luck, and I'll be reading. Nerdpics (talk) 06:05, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your interest! Since my history knowledge is limited and superficial, I'm definitely needing some expert collaboration, especially considering this ATL involves events in various bits of the world and different periods. This is my first project of something really serious and plausible. My previous ATLs, which I've made just for fun, were quite unrealistic. Please feel free to comment and suggest anything you want. - Esbonl (talk) 06:22, September 29, 2018 (UTC)

Awesome. If you are interested I could make a couple timelines for the USA and CSA plus their political history of these nations.

Also I thought it could be cool to have the CSA go to war against Spain in 1898, instead of the USA like in OTL Spanish American War This Could lead to Cuba and Puerto Rico becoming Confederate States, and the Philippines and Guam remaining colonies of Kingdom of Spain. Nerdpics (talk) 01:48, September 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a great idea. I was in fact unsure about what to do with the Caribbean and Central America and it's a fact that the Confederates planned to expand to Latin America after their victory. You are welcome to create pages about the CSA and USA, but since there may be accidental conflicts with other parts of the timeline, please remember to use the template on top of each page until we've definitely agreed on how they should be.


 * Another thing: are you good at maps? We will need some map assistance for this timeline. I'm not talking about extremely complex maps, but those we find at the top of nation infoboxes. For the sake of completeness I plan to include flag, emblem and map on every nation page. - Esbonl (talk) 02:13, September 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * A good start would be an article on the Civil War. - Esbonl (talk) 06:52, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

War for Southern Independence (Differently) Nerdpics (talk) 20:00, September 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent. But with how many states did each side stay with after the war? - Esbonl (talk) 01:32, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

The CSA keep the states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, Tennessee. They also win the Indian Territory (which would have become Oklahoma) and the lower half of the Arizona Territory (which would become the states of New Mexico and Arizona)

I think the modern CSA would have 15 states (South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, Tennessee, Sequoyah {another name for Oklahoma} Arizona, Cuba, and Puerto Rico.

I also made a president list. List of Presidents of the Confederate States (Differently)

What happens to the CSA and the USA in WWI and WWII?

Does the US get Hawaii, does it stay with Britain, or becomes it's own nation? Nerdpics (talk) 02:56, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Awesome list! Good job.

I think Hawaii will most likely remain a British possession. I'm still thinking carefully about the World Wars. There will certainly be many differences, mainly because there is no Ottoman Empire and Nazi Germany (there may be equivalents to them, though). - Esbonl (talk) 02:43, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

Here were a few events that almost started WWI early. (The Russo-Japanese War (1904-05), The Casablanca Incident (1908), and The Agadir Crisis (1911).). You may want to research them and see if they would have happened in your timeline, and if they would have launched the Great War. You might want use something completely original with the PODs of your timeline.

Because of the split of the of the United State do you still want them to become a "Super Power" of the 20th century or would you prefer an alternative in World affairs? (possibly Brazil, China, or Australia)

What are the USA/CSA diplomatic relations? Do you want them to be best of allies, or warring rivals? Nerdpics (talk) 03:57, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

I will think about the World Wars and give an answer soon. This will certainly be a multipolar world, but countries will form larger alliances. Post-WWII Soviet Union will be a very strong power and will participate on a Cold War against a capitalist alliance formed by the US, China, Europe, Brazil a North African power I'm still deciding on (possibly Egypt). With the strategic help of a developed China and those additional powers, this Cold War will be won much more earlier and easier. I'm still quite unsure about the role of the CSA in both World Wars and the Cold War. If they side with the US, this won't make much difference to the bigger picture, but if they don't, things will be very, very different. Imagine a fascist or communist CSA. - Esbonl (talk) 04:36, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

I think I could do a Communist CSA. It would need a Confederate Civil War I'm thing from 1935-1941. (Following the Great Depression and assassination of President Long) which would lead to the establishment of the Confederation of American Socialist States. The CASS would stay natural in WWII, as it would be focused on rebuilding. Yet when the Cold War begins, they would become one of the USSR's closest allies. You might want to make the USA and the new CASS go to war. (Possible from 1963-1972) Making the American War the replacement for the Vietnam War in this timelines because of the early Vietnam victory. (With China and it's allies sending soldiers to aid the US in the war.) Nerdpics (talk) 02:25, October 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * That's a good idea. Please feel free to write more pages and also add info to existing ones. Meanwhile, I'll be focused on creating articles on countries and calculating the area and population of those with very different territories, a hard task. Afterwards, I'll be carefully devising the World Wars, deciding which nations will participate and finding a good way to fit the CASS in WWII and the Cold War. - Esbonl (talk) 08:28, October 3, 2018 (UTC)

Cool, would you want the CASS to collapse with the USSR, or would you want it to survive to modern times? List of Presidents of the United States (Differently)

Nerdpics (talk) 01:19, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll let you decide this one. If they survive, it'll probably be a result of a victory on a recent Vietnam-styled war, like you said (remember that the USSR falls some decades earlier in this timeline) and they will be still a communist dictatorship to this day. If they don't, the US and the post-CASS state will probably still be kind of rivals today, just like post-communist countries vs the US in OTL. There may be an American version of the fall of Berlin Wall or something. It also possible that the Confederate States gets split in two states (one supportive of the US and another communist one), like Germany, Vietnam, Yemen or Korea. - Esbonl (talk) 08:34, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

The Spanish-Confederacy War (Differently) Nerdpics (talk) 04:53, October 5, 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I've updated pages and maps to reflect your recent creations. Now Cuba is a part of the CSA in all maps (Puerto Rico is not shown in those, so I couldn't have included it) and I've also linked your lists of presidents to their respective nation pages. - Esbonl (talk) 06:35, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

Confederate Civil War (Differently) I think I will have a American War which will result in the over throw of the CASS government and the reestablishment of the CSA. It will become a little more then a puppet state, but just like you said it would probably become a kind of rival to the USA in the 21st century. (Maybe rebuild ties with Russia, and the enemies of the US.)
 * Which states will join the CASS? - Esbonl (talk) 15:09, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Other then Louisiana and Cuba (Which government was over thrown by Batista) no other states would officially join. but the Confederate Civil is more like the Spanish Civil in OTL, the war isn't about State vs State, it's political group vs political group. They have Communist militias throughout the Appalachian Mountains, poorer regions of the Deep South, and the eastern part of Texas. After the 8 years, the CASS would force the 13 other states into their Confederation.

After the American war, the CASS government would be over thrown and the CSA government in exile will be brought back in power. Nerdpics (talk) 17:21, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

So does any of the American Nations join the Great War? Nerdpics (talk) 22:33, October 17, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm still thinking about that. Where can we put the US and CSA? Each one fighting on a different side, the two fighting on the same side or one of them not participating? I'm still developing the war as a whole, which will be a bit complicated since North Africa and the Middle East are completely different in this timeline. Suggestions are welcome. - Esbonl (talk) 22:18, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

And now a brief description of the Great War:


 * Austria-Hungary does not participate.
 * With no Ottoman Empire, Byzantium and West Persia will basically do what the Ottoman Empire did; they will suffer a lot after losing the war but won't cease to exist.
 * Egypt in this timeline will join the Allies and fight mainly against West Persia.
 * I'm not planning to do a similarly-scaled WWII. There will be local wars everywhere instead, such as the Germany-Poland war (which, however, there will be inteference from Britain and France since Germany will violate the Versailles Treaty). We can insert the Confederate Civil War among that scenario.

I've made a map of the participating countries:



The whole Great War thing is still a draft. I'm still studying WWI and the history of this timeline's countries to conceive a good scenario. We will be developing it over time. - Esbonl (talk) 22:34, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good. I agree with the US joining the Allies, and the CSA staying neutral.

The US President Teddy Roosevelt was a major supporter of US involvement in the war in OTL. US involvement would have probably happened earlier. Roosevelt would have kept the military preparing for war, and would have declare war on Germany in 1915 if the sinking of the RMS Lusitania still happened.

CS President Woodrow Wilson was against joining the war, and it took a lot of convincing to agree to it in OTL. Wilson would have focused on internal affairs instead. Also the CSA would be more likely to be fighting in the Mexican Revolution to support President Porfirio Díaz against the Revolutionary forces. So the CSA could keep their access to the Pacific via their positive relationship with President Díaz. If the CSA having anything to do with the war, it would probably be President Wilson serving as a moderator during the peace talks.

I also like the idea of many smaller wars instead of another World War. it's a unique take for the timeline which seem quite reasonable. Will there be a League of Nations, or nuclear weapons in this timeline?

Mexico (Differently) Nerdpics
 * Good job! Sorry for my absence and not answering, I was a little busy those last days. But yes, there will be a League of Nations in this timeline and it will still exist to this day. And there probably won't be nuclear weapons, since nobody will have a really good reason to develop them. I'm posting the contents of the war along a couple of days, but it won't be going to the cannon before we can discuss it and confirm that everything in it is plausible and matches everything else. - Esbonl (talk) 07:49, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

What your thoughts on Japan in this timeline? Nerdpics (talk) 01:59, October 28, 2018 (UTC)
 * In this timeline, Imperial China never falls and, unlikely in OTL, it's powerful and industrialized by the early 20th century. So, it naturally prevents the ambitious Japanese Empire from emerging. Although it does engage in some wars, Japan never manages to conquer Korea or any other country. I think that a militarily weakened Japan will choose to join the China/USA team and maybe thrive economically. - Esbonl (talk) 15:51, October 28, 2018 (UTC)

Hi, long time no see. Yes when I wrote that during the Southern War for Independence, the CSA had won the lower part of the state of Arizona and New Mexico. Which was the CSA State of Arizona, the USA had the northern parts of the two states which was the USA State of New Mexico. .

After the Confederation of American Socialist States fell, the United States annexed the State of Arizona and part of Virginia. So the US State of Arizona would either be split like in the picture, or apart of a Massive New Mexico. Nerdpics (talk) 23:26, July 19, 2019 (UTC)

I also made this The American War (Differently), I know that Mexico would join the US, but I'm unsure who else would ally with them. Nerdpics (talk) 21:54, July 20, 2019 (UTC)



So I made New Mexico and Arizona a single state, and New Mexico is the biggest state in this alternative US, with California in second. Is the map correct? I'm planning to do the CSA states now.

Also, besides adding subdivisions I will also write some more history for certain countries. I need to outline how China modernized in the second half of the 19th century, which would start with reactionary Empress Dowager Cixi dying about 40 years earlier than in OTL. This is among the things with a great impact on the Cold War of this world, which is polycentric: many great powers fighting in different sides instead of two/a few superpowers. - Esbonl (talk) 13:07, July 21, 2019 (UTC)


 * Oh, I just saw you've already done the CSA states. Good job! - Esbonl (talk) 13:16, July 21, 2019 (UTC)

Are the Olympics a thing in this Timeline? Nerdpics (talk) 21:56, July 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I'm planning to write about them soon. In the article about the FIFA World Cup, it is mentioned that it was inspired by the Olympics, and the first modern Olympiad took place in Byzantium (since Greece as a country doesn't exist). - Esbonl (talk) 00:24, July 27, 2019 (UTC)