Talk:Sierra Nevada (1983: Doomsday)

Borders
When I originally envisioned this nation a number of weeks ago, I was unsure as to what its borders might be given it would encompass areas of desert. Until I can work up a map per se, I generally see the borders as approximating the northern and eastern borders of the former Nevada with the south defined by Route Six. As for California, the region around Lake Tahoe and parts of the Sierra Nevada. In essence holding the relevant mountain passes to prevent enemies from crossing into the nation. As I don't want to accidently encroach the borders of New Vegas, I want to be certain where they would interact with me. Since I am still working on where I wish to take this story, I will add more as soon as time allows. Fxgentleman 05:31, February 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Way to go, Fx, pulverize the poor folk in Las Vegas while letting BOTH Reno and Carson City off scott free! :-)


 * Actually I see Tahoe as being a great hub for a survivor state, but either Reno or Carson City would have certainly been a target, if not both. And you want to take out Area 51? Where's the adventure in that? :-)


 * If you need help on that map, let me know. I have more time than sense! SouthWriter 05:56, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I like it so far but I wish Area 51 didn't get hit I'd like to see some kind of exploration there sometime. --GOPZACK 17:15, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'd say that since this whole state was basically started by politicians from the existing state of Nevada, it would stand to reason that the eventual land would be the "sucessor" of the original "Nevada" with the right to be recognized as such. Carson was good enough for Nevada - and it has the government buildings to prove it! SouthWriter 05:39, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is my suggested map for the borders (drawn in dark green), it centers in what is mostly forest and mountain in
 * California, and mainly desert in Nevada. Plus another suggestion, since Carson City (the capital of Nevada wasn't hit) it could be the potential capital for this nation.[Riley]
 * California, and mainly desert in Nevada. Plus another suggestion, since Carson City (the capital of Nevada wasn't hit) it could be the potential capital for this nation.[Riley]

I have to confess that I am getting a bit frustrated regarding this business over Sierra Nevada's borders. I am currently rewriting the article to address a few things I neglected to earlier, as such I have not updated further. However, what I don't understand is this desire as expressed by some writers that the state government is going to abandon the rest of the state is utterly totally, ridiculous. Several things to consider. First, the govenrment of NV survived along with the state capital and governor, as such there is a working apparatus in place as opposed to other states. Second, strikes were contained to the souther tip of the state, primarily Clark County. The rest of the state was not touched except for fallout. This means, among other things, intact roads and rail lines, agricultural assets, oil fields and refining capability; and a number of surving cities and towns. Third, the governor would not abandon the rest of his state and would do everything in his power to make the citizens aware their government existed and was there for them and work with the existing political leaders to do what could be done to keep the state intact. This business about Carson City being to far away is silly, given it only takes about six hours to drive to the UT border. I know this for a fact because I have family who live in NV. Also, any intelligent person is going to want to preserve the state as best as they could, given such resources as agriculture, livestock, oil, and minerals. Lastly, this whole concept of the rest of state, or part of it, jumping ship and going over to another area would only be logicial in the absence of a state government and heavier attacks as we have seen elsewhere. As I said, I am working on my article now and hopefully will post soon.Fxgentleman 01:10, April 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm enjoying this article, and especially the feature-type aspects. It really humanizes the timeline, and I commend you for it. For the record, if Reno survived and granted that no one died of radiation or starvation, I see no reason for Sierra Nevada not to have the old Nevada borders. BrianD 04:26, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * My thoughts when I wrote the Utah Article in the first place was that there was no government in Reno - that it had fallen with the waves of refugees from devastated California. It's fine that it didn't - and I think the way you've dealt with the article, largely, is very much in keeping with the timeline.  What we need to do is just accept that for whatever reason the cities nearest Utah slipped over to the seeming stability of Utah, when they didn't hear from Carson/Reno.  I always saw that Reno/Carson and the like would've been fighting for their survival much more than worrying about their "hinterland".  Remember that the MSP were until recently a very real threat to Reno - very bellicose, and within striking distance.
 * Having driven through Nevada more times than I care to count, and having spent most of my life in Utah, I can say that the state of Nevada is largely a blighted waste. It wouldn't lend itself to foragers and raiders like the California border would - Reno/Carson's front porch, as it were.
 * Because of that, I should expect Reno/Carson would go with a laissez-faire attitude when it came to their "hinterland" to the East-they likely knew of Utah's existence without Utah knowing of them. They likely figured they could sort out any territorial concerns later, with a civilized neighbor - if they survived the attacks from the West. Knowing that they wouldn't be facing attack from that quarter, they focused on the west, and survival.
 * Now that the threat to the West has subsided, the MSP a virtual non-threat, they can once again turn their attention to asserting their territorial claims - something which Utah's government at Fillmore has been preparing for. They are planning on conducting a vote to allow those cities that were historically part of Nevada to "return to the fold."  I can understand your frustration, and wanting things to be as you envisage them, but, point of fact, we all accept QSS and QAA as part of this timeline - so we can either look at changing QSS (something to very much avoid), or we tailor your information about Sierra Nevada to take into account this temporary defection of cities to Utah.  With a few changes in the near future, you can have Nevada as hale and hearty as you'd like it - we just need to wait for the political apparatus of Utah to run its course - I was thinking it'd be Early to Mid-June. - Louisiannan 05:25, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Economy
I realize some of what I have posted regarding the SNU economy might seem unusual given the general perception that Nevada is just desert. However, having done my research, I can confirm the state does have a very active agriculture and animal raising community. The items I quoted are indeed raised there in addition to other crops. I believe in the aftermath of Doomsday, these areas could be utilized to expand growing and animal raising. Also, I could see recreation areas, such as Tahoe, being turned over to growing with the loss of tourism. This would be enough over time to support the population. If anyone has questions, let me know. Fxgentleman 03:28, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that what you suggest here is fine - exports is out of the scale at this point. Who would the SNU be exporting to? Who would have interest to buy at this point? With extension of the railroad and negotiations that seem necessary between and the SNU, trade might begin there, but prior to now, I don't know that there would've been anyone to trade with, not even the MSP. My two cents. Louisiannan 20:38, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, you do make an interesting point as to exports. My thought has generally been this, for the first ten years at least American survivor nations would focus on their own internal economies, basically developing a system by which they would be able to survive. After that or even earlier in some cases, I would think nations would start to to trade amongst themselves since it only seems logical given some might have something others do not. Given the agricultural base in the SNU and the ability to can, as well as the raising of animals, I could see potential trade emerging say with the MSP or other likewise nations such as Utah. The same goes for minerals which would be valuable in manufacturing. To use a loose analogy, think of the old west cattle drives. I do agree the SNU would have to enter into trade agreements, which is only logical. Worth noting, is the key pass through the Sierra Nevada Mountains goes right through the SNU and as such there would more than likely have to be horse trading between the SNU, MSP, and Utah, which when you think about it, makes sense. Supplies could be shipped by rail or vehicle from the the coast inland putting all parties in a valuable location for trade. Especially, since they, as established states could offer a secure route and such for outside traders hoping to reach internal markets. This is something I would very much like to talk about with you soon since if I understand, you are the writer of Utah, and whoever is doing the MSP. Unfortunately, I had wanted to fill in more about the SNU before bothering anyone. The research takes time as I am sure you know and I have to work it in along with the writing and my job. You would not believe the research I did on agriculture and oil drilling in NV before just doing the economy. If I came on a bit strong in my earlier remarks, it was not my intention. I was just trying to make an observation and figured everyone had forgotten about the SNU since it is still in proposal as I work on it. All this said, I appreciate the feedback and would like to have have talks with you about trade in the future. Fxgentleman 00:41, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

History section
Pre-Doomsday history can be really short - since the POD was in 1983, we all know the history of areas relatively well. Louisiannan 18:14, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Refugees
There wouldn't be too many refugees from Utah - some, but probably not many. Most would've moved South to the other population centers.

As for the level of the government, I would expect this to be much less stratified than most county governments, just because of its relative isolation. Louisiannan 15:42, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

In doing some of my research, I studied the various road networks in the region and noted that Route 80 ran from Salt Lake across northern Nevada and into Sacramento, CA. I hypothesized some people would flee north from Salt Lake into Nevada along this route, more than likely moved along by National Guard and militias towards the Reno-Carson City region, where they would end up in refugee camps. The same for Sacramento, with survivors/refugees traveling east along Route 80 into Nevada. Refugees from the southern part of the state, at least those who survived the journey, would likely travel along 95 and head north. As for other survivors say from Oregon or Idaho, I think there would be some over time. In regards to the government, I had not expanded further on it or other aspects of the SNU because I was pondering what to do. Given the state capital, most legislators, and the governor survived, there would be a basic structure to work off, i.e. the state constitution. I am leaning towards an emergency government working off this system for several years, before something formal is done for the SNU. --Fxgentleman 16:34, March 26, 2010 (UTC)