Talk:Europe 1430, 1461-1491 (Map Game)

Henry VI

''Henry VI is only 9 years old in 1430, and considered insane. How is he concerned with absolute power?''ProfessorMcG 16:05, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Some inaccuracies
England couldn't sell their french lands because at this time they only controlled them at this time of the 100 years war, they were English occupied French lands that England claimed because of the royal line's origins as Norman noblety. But the French King legally stripped the duke or whatnot of Normandy of his lands and titles in France, so the claims aren't recognized internationally. Also, Genoa is a merchant republic, so its King can't also be King of Ukraine because it has no King. Also, Orkney and Shetland are part of Norway, not independent.Oerwinde 17:44, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

You are right on the first two parts and I was about to post something about it, but the last part is not. Orkney and Shetland were independent. I made the starting map. And as a side note Shetland and Orkney were sold to Scotland in 1468.ProfessorMcG 20:09, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't find any mention of them being independent. The wikipedia articles have both Orkney and Shetland as part of Norway until Christian I put them up as security against the dowry for his daughter when she was engaged to the king of Scotland. When the dowry wasn't paid, the islands became part of Scotland. The closest thing to independence was Orkney at this time was ruled by a scottish Earl who owed fealty to the King of Norway. Oerwinde 08:33, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

How do the Habsburgs lose power in a year when they eventually become the most powerful ruling house in Europe?
 * Also, the HRE isn't a centralized state, it's many duchies, bishoprics, countys, kingdoms, free cities, etc. And in fact Bohemia, Burgundy, Luxembourg, Teutonic Knights, Swiss Confed. Savoy, and Brandenburg are part of the empire. At this point the King of Luxembourg is the Holy Roman Emperor, so if the Habsburg lands are absorbed by the empire (which it already was part of), it actually means the lands were absorbed by the king of Luxembourg. Also, attacking the Teutons is also declaring war on the Holy Roman Emperor, which could bring all the aformentioned nations into the mix.Oerwinde 08:33, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Record!
It's already completely ridiculous and it only took 9 years.ProfessorMcG 00:30, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Its not completely ridiculous. We haven't got colonialism or spaceships and their is no sign of any one country becoming more vastly important than all the others. You are just being picky. Bob 08:46, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Half of this stuff makes no sense.ProfessorMcG 23:45, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Bohemia
The King of Bohemia is the freaking king of HRE ProfessorMcG 20:39, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Holy Roman Emperor had no real power within the various states of the HRE. His only real power until the reforms of the late 1400s to mid 1500s was that he could levy troops to defend or war against agressors to the empire. Once the Habsburgs began to reform the empire creating the imperial courts, imperial circuits, etc. the Emperor got much more prestige and such. Until this time, the Emperor only had any real power over his own lands, which is why at the beginning of this game, the Habsburgs only had some small holdings, but by the time the Margrave of Brandenburg declared himself King in Prussia, they had established real control over much more of the HRE, and after the 30 years war it was mostly known as the Austrian empire rather than the Holy Roman Empire. In this game though, the Bohemian king has reformed the empire slightly earlier, but is still going through the process the Habsburgs did in using marriage and inheritance to build their territory. Oerwinde 08:30, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool ProfessorMcG 01:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Spain + Genoa = What?
Genoa is a republic. How could Spain gain control of it through marriage? Keperry 23:38, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Its Spain and Naples. Bob 08:34, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Italia!!!!!!?
Naples was part of the Spanish Empire. they don't just leave for no reason!! Destroyanator 03:45, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Papal states would also not give up their authority to a secular ruler. VENEZUELA also took two turns. And the USAAR magically eliminating poverty and running around conquering things on the other side of the mediterranean was silly. Spain releasing an independent client state in the holy land only for them to revolt and rejoin Spain didn't make sense either. I'm rolling it back.Oerwinde 04:26, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] USAAR?
This is probably the most implausible thing to happen so far. How does a popular revolution with no previous mention suddenly claim portions of two nations without them doing anything about it, spur a popular revolution in a foreign country that joins the previously created nation, then collect enough troops to invade and annex the most populated area of Europe all in a year? This is about equivalent to Maine, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia all declaring themselves a new nation in January, the Cuban people rising up and handing the country over to this new nation in march, then the combined country invade Washington DC and annex Maryland and Virginia in August. Its stupid.Oerwinde 06:10, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is why we have the power to edit. Edit and DESTROY IT!!!!!! I love saying that.ProfessorMcG 13:51, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] USAAR IS POSSIBLE
1. Ukraine and Georgia are not powerful.

2. like communism in east europe the revolution in moldovia might happend.

3. They have weapons and army because they were in a war between genoa and ukraine, you can see that in the map.

4. with the help of Khanate of Golden Horde wich wasn't at war with any other countrie they are more powerful, also with the help of warrichia.

5. it's imposible that the black sea is the most populated part in Europe, they can take it easy specilly with the help of the others members of the golden alliance.

6. Genoa was already weakened because it was invaded by Autana Authenia in 1477 and the "empire" of trebizond is NOT powerful and very small.

7.with the help of the militia of the golden alliance (USAAR, khanate of golden horse, warrichia. plus ex-ukraine ex-trebizond ex-genoa and some ex-georgia) they might defeat Bulgaria.

8. they have been invading since 1479 and the last part they have invade is in 1483, in 5 years.

You forget about the religion factor. at this point in time, the accepted christian doctrine was that kings had a divine right to rule by declaring that kings don't, the USAAR would provoke a crusade from all the surrounding christian nations.

a allied or enemy crusade?

Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldovia aren't very populous. Constantinople is the largest city in Europe with a population of nearly 600 thousand. This is more than the total population of most countries, and is likely more than the total population of the entire USAAR when it invaded. Now with the only holdings being the Anatolian Genoan holdings, and Trebizond, they don't have the manpower to take anything back. The population of Moldavia is Christian, they would not ally with the muslim nomads of the Golden Horde. The dominant forces in the Black Sea are Bulgaria and Genoa, Genoa having the largest navy and a firm hold on much of Greece. A small upstart revolution wouldn't have much of a chance against the dominant navy in the Black and Aegean seas. And being a republic, their anti-royalist doctrine wouldn't have any effect on the populace.

In short. The USAAR cannot defeat Genoa.

The only thing remotely plausible is its possible existence. But it would emerge in some sort of opressive monarchy rather than a republic (which Ukraine is). And it would take a while to build, not suddenly taking the lands of like 9 countries in a year. Oerwinde 20:29, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Ukraine independence?
USAAR annexed Ukraine because the doge united, later someone put that the doge was eliminated and Ukraine gain independence. If the doge is killed Ukraine will remain part of USAAR because it's no more controled by the doge.

Ok, the ridiculousness of the USAAR is getting bothersome. Its implausible especially considering the nations around the black sea aside from Genoa and Bulgaria at this point are extremely weak and not very populous making mass conquests extremely unlikely. Popular revolutions arising in far off countries almost simultaneously are also ridiculous especially the timeline of the revolutions. Its also turning into a back and forth between VENEZUELA and Catherine who don't play the map games right prefering to take control of one country and ignore the rest of the world, this has caused the religious war in German to pretty much halt for 10-15 years for no reason. I propose rolling back to before the USAAR was created. I apologize to Catherine for this as she has put a lot of work into whats going on with Britain, and it hasn't been disruptive like the USAAR stuff has been.Oerwinde 01:29, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

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