Talk:Toledo Confederation (1983: Doomsday)

Toldeo
Wouldn't it have been hit? Even if it was in decline as an industrial city, I'd think it would still have had enough to be considered a target.

It would only really make a change in capital, population, and the toldeo area itself marked as claimed on the map.

Lordganon 06:59, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it has potential. I actually live in Toledo, so I look forward to seeing how you develop the article. Though, about the politics, Doomsday-era Toledo was pretty much a liberal Democratic political machine. It's possible that they would have established an oligarchy or dictatorship. If you're going to take the democratic route, you could base it off the split in the Toledo Democratic party that was beginning at this time. And, also due to how liberal they are, I don't know if they would necessarily gravitate towards the Dixie Confederation. Caeruleus 02:15, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know if this will help or can be used, but this is just some interesting things I thought could contribute. Let me know how I can help if I can. Caeruleus 06:15, July 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the information. My apologies if the following is a bit unstructured. I've just returned home after a long trip. I had a vague idea of Toledo's political situation during the early 1980s but was not quite sure of the specifics. I may incorperate the idea of a oligarchy into the early history of Toledo with the Democratic party suffering a split due to massive immigration and general stress. It would certainly add a new dynamic to politics. As for the Dixie Alliance, I'm not sure what will be done there. JackofSpades 05:32, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because I'm bored lol, here are some other random points about Toledo and the surrounding area that might be interesting to incorporate.
 * Toledo has an established Neo-Nazi population that occasionally sparks riots.
 * Toledo has had a history of race riots with the solidly African-American and predominately white suburbs.
 * I don't know when this began, but today Toledo, and the neighboring city of Ann Arbor, Michigan which falls within your nation's borders, have large Indian and Arab populations.
 * Ann Arbor is actually more liberal than Toledo is, which could affect the politics once its absorbed.
 * Much of the wealth and power of Toledo was concentrated in the hands of a priveledged few who primarly got their wealth in the early 1900s or late 1800s and its been passed down. Many of them actually live in an exclusive wealthy suburb of Toledo known as Ottawa Hills.
 * Toledo itself is rather small, but the Greater Toledo Area includes the neighboring towns of Bowling Green, Holland, Lake Township, Maumee, Millbury, Monclova Township, Northwood, Oregon, Ottawa Hills, Perrysburg, Rossford, Springfield Township, Sylvania, Walbridge, Waterville, Whitehouse, and Washington Township

Caeruleus 20:38, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you again. On a seperate note, does anyone know how Lake Effect Snow has been effected by Doomsday? JackofSpades 22:40, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Toledo doesn't receive lake effect snow. Though the only way I could imagine it changing is the fact that in the initial post-Doomsday years it would contain radioactive fallout. Caeruleus 23:52, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops. I meant to post that question under the Ohio discussion. I have multiple tabs up. Sorry. JackofSpades 02:25, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you are claiming Ann Arbor, don't forget about the University of Michigan, a major research university. BrianD 23:36, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you are claiming Ann Arbor, don't forget about the University of Michigan, a major research university. BrianD 23:36, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Territory
The Northeast parts (Around Detroit) would be very heavily irradiated, and likely uninhabitable. Also, the Canadian portions would irradiated too, and would bring it into conflict with Canada. No point in claiming the territory if it cant be occupied until 2050, really. Just as a fyi.

Lordganon 04:02, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the information. I'm suprised this wasn't brought up before. I'll adjust the claims. Sorry. I must not have been thinking. Regarding Canada however, does it matter too terribly much if the claims come in conflict with the nation? If Superior's expansion is anything to go by, they really don't have any authority in the area anymore. Most in Toledo probably thought Canada had been totally destroyed in Doomsday.Even after coming in contact with them, I would think that they would still want to gain control over Lake Erie for prestige if nothing else. They may 'claim' to have control over the areas, but actually be unable to control them. I apologize if I am missing something significant. It is late at night and I am still fairly new.


 * Please forgive any errors I may make.
 * Even if they don't control Detroit or Canada, I can still see Toledo controlling most of southeast Michigan up to Ann Arbor and claiming the Detroit/Windsor metro area. Caeruleus 16:22, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

I would bet Toledo and Superior both claim the Detriot area at the very least. I'm not sure if Superior cares much for the Windsor side. --GOPZACK 04:13, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * There are lots of competeing territorial claims, so that will make an interesting rivalry between them. Caeruleus 18:43, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, as I have said before conflicting territorial claims make for a much more exciting world and give nations an incentive to expand as quickly as possible, lest an opponent get control of it instead. JackofSpades 19:10, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Michael Bell
I think Michael Bell is the only African American President of a large American Survivor nation. I think thats worth noting on the talk page. --GOPZACK 04:13, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, Terry Bellamy of the Republic of Blue Ridge is African-American and female. I added her picture so as to draw better attention to her. SouthWriter 20:05, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for going to the trouble to do this, South! BrianD 23:32, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * No problem, Brian. I noticed this when Zack posted it, but just got around to posting it. I hope I successfully avoided copyright violations posted Ms. Bellamy's picture from Asheville's website. I left a link and everything. --SouthWriter 00:24, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert, so take my word with a grain of salt. Whenever I lifted a pic, I always got it from Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons.BrianD 00:50, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great advice, for sure. I haven't used Wikipedia Commons, but I figure if the Wikipedia article for Ms. Bellamy didn't have the picture, Wikipedia commons would not either. I guess as long as we don't alter her picture or use it for profit it should be alright. Sometimes "public access" is decieving. SouthWriter 20:04, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great advice, for sure. I haven't used Wikipedia Commons, but I figure if the Wikipedia article for Ms. Bellamy didn't have the picture, Wikipedia commons would not either. I guess as long as we don't alter her picture or use it for profit it should be alright. Sometimes "public access" is decieving. SouthWriter 20:04, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great advice, for sure. I haven't used Wikipedia Commons, but I figure if the Wikipedia article for Ms. Bellamy didn't have the picture, Wikipedia commons would not either. I guess as long as we don't alter her picture or use it for profit it should be alright. Sometimes "public access" is decieving. SouthWriter 20:04, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

States
Here is a hypothetical map for the states of the Toledo Confederation. I am not framiliar with the northwestern Ohio area, so I don't know of any rivalries and such between counties. I've also included a few hypothetical capitals. Suggestions and corrections would be appreciated. Thank you. Dark yellow denotes territories.



Confederation?
Why a confederation? A confederation is usually just a union between semi-independent states. Why not just the Republic of Toledo? Arstarpool 16:53, July 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I came up with the name a few moons ago, I called it that because it was a group of survivors in the Northern Ohio-Indiana region that banded together. Its like the US Confederacy that is called a "Confederacy" but is run like a Republic. Plus there are far too many places with the word "Republic" in them. It mixes it up a little. --GOPZACK 17:00, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * A more apt reason for a confederation is that Toledo itself is very small. The area is made up of about 10 different indepedent towns who are all very indepedent IRL. The only realistic form of government that could be set up in the Greater Toledo Area is a confederation. Caeruleus 18:41, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

League of Nations
I don't doubt Toledo would not have heard of the LoN when it was formed, but it surely would know of the LoN by now from its contacts with Virginia and Superior. --BrianD 23:42, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. I couldn't really remember what LoN protocal was. I had them mixed up with another organization in a seperate game. My apologies. Perhaps I'll see if I can add some outposts to the Midwest, eventually. I would assume Superior has one. JackofSpades 01:35, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I should edit it to them knowing about the League's existence, but having no official contact with them. How does that sound? JackofSpades 00:00, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * That seems right. The LoN probably hasn't gotten around to all of North America...though we should establish LoN outposts and representatives in the midwest (and west, and northeast) just as I did with Brant McAllister in the Texas/Louisiana region. That may be something for you to consider as you develop Toledo, if you wish. BrianD 00:49, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see the League's presence slowly growing in the Midwest in the next few years. Assuming the United Communities goes through, the two groups may compete to win the public's favor. The UC afraid of becoming redundant, and the League annoyed that some poor man's UN is getting in their way. Right now, I see the people of Toledo seeing the League as unnecessary as they already have their own organization but that could change very quickly if a major conflict arises. JackofSpades 01:11, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The LoN should have more of a presence in the Midwest (we just haven't written them in yet). I would bring up any use of the LoN as "annoyed that some poor man's UN is getting in their way" with the other editors, because by my understanding of how the LoN works, it would be fine with a United Communities-type organization if that is what the survivor nation wished. The LoN would not force itself on anybody. BrianD 01:30, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there's been an effort by anyone to have the LoN place observers in specific regions of the former U.S. It's been up to individual editors to do that if they wished for the countries they are caretakers of. I invented McAlister for the southeast/Gulf, and to my knowledge he's the only one. It shouldn't be a problem to establish an LoN observer as heading a regional HQ in Toledo (if you wish), along with other regional HQs around the former U.S.BrianD 01:44, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

If it makes it more compatible with the LoN, you could make the UC into more of a midwest unification organization versus a poor man's UN. Caeruleus 03:19, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's probably what it will end up as, but right now they are having delusions of grandeur. The group will probably evolve to more of an alliance or Unification organization if they don't get many members.. (The Great Lakes Republic is a pretty nice name in my opinion.) JackofSpades 03:22, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I like the Midwestern Confederation or the United American Republic. Caeruleus 03:46, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

2010 Toledan Confederation Presidential Election
As has been mentioned in the main article, the Toledan Presidential election should be occuring around this time. I'm leaving it up to a vote to see who wins the Presidency. The Conservative Union party has not nominated anyone, and thrown their support behind the New Republican Party for now.

If the Democratic Party wins, it will essentially reassert their control over the Toledan government. The Democrats have slowly been drifting toward a more authoritarian stance since Doomsday. The Liberal Party is essentially a mix between the 1980s Democratic Party and the Canadian Liberal Party. If there are any questions or problems, please ask. Hopefully I'm doing this right. --JackofSpades 21:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Who should win the 2010 Presidential Election? New Republican Party: Represenative Micheal R. Turner Democratic Party: President Micheal Bell Liberal Party: Senator Kristina Keneally

Should I have posted this on the 1983: Doomsday talk page instead? Should I just call the election with four votes? JackofSpades 19:37, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can. It's up to you how you want to manage the election. Caeruleus 20:19, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I'd put it on the talk page if you want but I head an idea for the election, the Democrats and the Liberal Party split the Liberal vote allowing the GOP to eke out a narrow win. --GOPZACK 20:40, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * "The day a Republican wins in Toledo is the day no one else runs" <--- That's pretty much the rule for elections OTL, so I doubt a republican would win. It should be either a Liberal or Democratic victory. Caeruleus 21:35, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Donna Owens, a Republican, was mayor from 1983 to 1989. Did no one run against her or were there other issues. JackofSpades 21:42, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm....I don't know. I didn't live in Toledo then. Obviously, I need to brush up on my Toledo history then. Let me correct myself then, that's the rule in recent years since no Republican has gotten more than about 30% of the total mayoral vote since 2000 (I think). Caeruleus 21:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hang on a second Caeruleus, you have to remember this includes refugees and areas that are very conservative in Ohio & parts of Indiana. Remember you have two (ideological) liberals running & the GOP/conservatives united. What is true in Toledo today is not necessarily true in this timeline. --GOPZACK 21:45, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * True, but it also controls parts of southern Michigan, which was also mostly Democratic OTL. And, if they control Ann Arbor, that will be another large center of liberals. But a Republican could win I suppose. Caeruleus 21:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have to go with Zack on this one, Caer, we can't base the politics of post-DD Toledo on OTL 2000. If Toledo had a Republican mayor on DD, then that may have set the tone for a new wave of conservatism as they faced the challenges they faced. As with almost everywhere else, though, a central governments would have been necessary, which in the 80's was the game plan for the Democrats and/or liberals. And so, it could have gone either way. --SouthWriter 22:51, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... perhaps the New Republicans should win. I guess Keneally can run again in six years or so. This should be a massive blow for the Democratic party. If we are going with that then my plans are for the Democrats to get nearly wiped out of Congress as well this year. Most seats are seized by the Liberals and Republicans, with the Christian Communist/ Labor party maybe getting one represenative. We could easily get a scandal in if we wanted. Maybe a Democrat doesn't want to lose their seat so they resort to dirty tricks? JackofSpades 23:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)