Talk:The Ashes of Rome (Map Game)

is there an algo for this game? Spartian300 (talk) 11:20, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Algo
I've been working off of a sort of unofficial amalgamation of several different algos, but if someone is willing to write one for the game, and be an Algo mod, that would be fantastic.

Knoxmoor (talk) 15:20, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

I have something that might work out.

Stability: +1 to whichever side is more stable. For example, nations that are multiple tribes or have newly conquered land will be often slightly less stable then their counterparts.

Size: + to whichever side has the most troops. The score will be made based on how big the difference is. For example, if one side has 1000 men, and the other has 10,000, the score for the bigger side is 1+10.

Weapons: +! to whichever side has the best weapons, and by how many there are.

Motive:

Terrain:

Population:

Economy:

Fronts:

War supported?:

It's a work in progess, but it's a start.

Spartian300 (talk) 22:42, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

If you're willing to work on this, I think it would be great. Also, be sure to include things like number of fronts, satisfaction, political situation.

Knoxmoor (talk) 22:54, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Gotcha Spartian300 (talk) 08:30, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

I have another Idea for this. Flashbadgerpro here. Talk to me here : http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:flashbadgerpro

We could factor in a couple more things when war occurs, such as

1) War Exhasution

2) Technology

(Ie : are they more or less advanced than there foe? We should probably implement values for this)

3) Army size

(Not the country's population, but the military size. Countries could have a small population but all of it could be in the military.)

4) Army Composition

(Are the country's units all horseman? All cannons? A mixed composition should be ideal.)

5) Defensiveness of cities

6) General / Combat Leader's ability.

(Is there even a leader? If not, than the army should be penalized)

7) Religion

Does the religion create zealots or martyrs who are willing to do whatever it takes for their faith? That would boost the military's power for sure.

8) Tradde power.

Can nations afford mercenaries and their materials through trade?

9) Tradition

Have they been succesful previously? That should factor into the chance of winning or losing.

10) Government Type

Does the government want a war to occur?

ALSO : we should add in allies to warfare, and make these values manipulatable by the players.

Those sound promising.

Knoxmoor (talk) 05:01, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

War of Frankish Aggression
Neustria

Stability: -2

Size: -1 (facing two fronts)

Weapons: +3

Motive: +5

Terrain: +5

Population: +2

Economy: -4 (Franks just spilt into two kingdoms)

Fronts: 0 for Neustria,

War supported?: Yes, +9

Score: 17



Burgundy
Stability: +1

Size: +1

Weapons: +1

Motive: +5

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Terrain: -1

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Population: +1

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Economy: +5

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Fronts: 0

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">War supported?: Yes, +5

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Score: 18

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Result: Burgundy barely defeats the Neuastrians

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Okay, so I need some scores for the nations for this to work. Spartian300 (talk) 08:44, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Before we completely put the algo into action, we should come up with the range for certain scores, and what each score signifies (i.e. what constitutes a 5 motive as opposed to a 9, and what the range for economy would be, etc...)

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Knoxmoor (talk) 15:01, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

west slavic confederacy
total: 22
 * stability: +1
 * size: +1
 * weapons: +3
 * motive: +5
 * terrain: -1
 * population: +2
 * economy: +2(functioning well)
 * fronts: 0
 * war supported: yes, +9

Lombard
total: 16
 * stability: -2
 * size: -1
 * weapons: +1
 * motive: +5
 * terrain: +5
 * economy: +1(functioning)
 * fronts: 0
 * war supported: yes, +5

result
the West slavic confederacy collapses/takes territory from the Lombard tribes. NOTE: i will need mods to check this algo. i don't know this algo 100% but I've seen similar algos before, so my result should be about right. Keep in mind, the Goths are also pushing through lombard territory to combat the Slavs. Honestly, I feel like we should hold off a little bit on using this algo, because I feel like it can be developed a little bit more, and some of the categories require an explanation, to some extent, of what each number means.
 * regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  14:37, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Knoxmoor (talk) 16:09, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

i did account for the goths in this algo. also, there is an algo on the map games wikia that i think could be used for this game, with some modification. i will look into the algo if you want. regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  20:36, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Question
Knoxmoor which Nation are you playing as? Wrto12 (talk) 07:01, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not playing as a nation, just because I'm worried that, if I played as a nation, I would be subconsciously biased towards it, even if I didn't realize it.

Knoxmoor (talk) 17:31, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

mods
i feel like there should be a place were mods can sign up, or at the very least a list of mods, somewhere on the page. regards, <font color="Navy">Agent  <font color="Red">of Doom

While I support the notion of multiple mods in theory, I have seen too many Map Games flounder due to mod infighting, and have witnessed an unbelievable amount of mod self-bias. This self bias, whether intentional or subconscious, is the main reason I have chosen not to play as a nation in my own game, and it is also the reason why I am the only mod. If people would like to be mods, but not participate as a nation in the game, I can totally get behind that, in fact, it would take quite a burden off of me. I'm very reluctant to allow people playing as nations to be mods, but that does not mean it's out of the realm of possibility...

Knoxmoor (talk) 03:55, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I actually agree with Knoxmoor. Of all the map games I've played, this one has lasted the longest and had the least amount of arguments about plausibilty or ASB bullshit. I think having a monarch mod is the best course of action for this games survival. Afunnymouth (talk) 20:41, August 11, 2015 (UTC)Afunnymouth

Amount of years per turn
I think 1 turn should be 2 years in 1200 and 1 year in 1400 till the end. What do u think? Awesome history 28 (talk) 12:18, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I totally agree. Wonderful suggestion. I will include that in the rules page so that people are aware.

Knoxmoor (talk) 15:33, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

in addition, i think ifwe get to 1950(unlikly) turns should be half years

Regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  21:58, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. How about 1900? Awesome history 28 (talk) 11:38, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Algo proposal
here is an algo i have edited for this game. if accepted, it should take effect next turn


 * Size of the armies: The bigger army gains +1 point.
 * Economy: The nation with a bigger economy gains +1 point.
 * war exhaustion: The nation with less war exhaustion gains +1 point.
 * This refers to the nation that has had less wars in the past 10 turns
 * Battlefield: The nation who can take more advantage from the battlefield gains +1 point.
 * Defending: The nation who defends its homeland gains +1 point.
 * Supports: The nation who is supported by a foreign country (not one in the war!) will gain points for each supporting country.
 * +1 for military aid
 * +.5 for economic aid
 * Luck: A random number will be generated by random.org. The winner gains +1 point.
 * The RNG will be from 1-10, attacker is evens, defender is odds
 * Morale: The nation who won last turn gains +1 point.
 * Fortifications: The nation whose front-line is more fortified gains +1 point (optional).
 * If a fortified city is being attacked, the defender gains +2 points
 * NOTE: it must be stated clearly in turns if a city is fortified, and there must be a plausible reason as to why the battle is taking place at said city.
 * Air support: The nation who has better air support gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * Tank support: The nation who has better tanks gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * Agricultural output: The nation with more Agricultural output gains +1 point
 * vassals: for each vassal, a nation will gain points
 * +1 for a loyal vassal
 * +.5 for a new/unstable vassal
 * -1 for a rebellious vassal

regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  21:58, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I love your proposal. Very simple, yet largely encompassing. I'm going to run a few trials with it, to see how plausable the results seem, and if they do, I will institute it.

Knoxmoor (talk) 23:01, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Quick question about the Algo. When dealing with one nation who is fighting two nations, do you run the scores of the two belligerent nations seperatly, or add them together?

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:34, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

together regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  22:02, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

I propose to add another factor to the algo. An expanding nation is stronger than one that is idle. Sometimes in history even an expanding nation 10 times smaller will win. Example, Cortez and the Mongols. Even technologically inferior barbarians can bring down idle empires. +1 if the nation has expanded for 2 or more previous terms. EvilAlien1 (talk) 20:44, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

thats... just no. if anything i would add a -1 penalty for expanding. the reason is, if you expand, you have new people to deal with, who don't like you, or your empire.

regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  14:34, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

update 2.0

I don't think It should be +1 for " battlefield is similar to home environment +1 attacker", as in this case, the battlefield would be similar to home for one nation and would actually be home to the other. Maybe a +0 as opposed to a -1 if the battlefiend isnt similar to home environment. Afunnymouth (talk) 20:47, August 11, 2015 (UTC)Afunnymouth
 * Size of the armies: The bigger army gains +1 point.
 * If the army is twice as big the bigger army gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more troops than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Military Tech Level: the nation with the better military tech gains +1 point
 * Economy: The nation with a bigger economy gains +1 point.
 * War exhaustion: The nation with less war exhaustion gains +1 point.
 * if A nation has fought no wars within the past 25 turns, that nation gains +1.5 points
 * This refers to the nation that has had less wars in the past 10 turns
 * Battlefield: The nation who can take more advantage from the battlefield gains points
 * Battlefield is island +1.5 to defender
 * Battlefield is mountin +1 defender
 * battlefield is forest +.5 to defender
 * battlefield is desert/arctic +.5 defender
 * battlefield is open plains +1 attacker
 * battlefield is similar to home environment +1 attacker
 * Defending: The nation who defends its homeland gains +1 point.
 * Support: The nation who is supported by a foreign country (not one in the war!) will gain points for each supporting country.
 * +1 for military aid
 * +.5 for economic aid
 * Luck: A random number will be generated by random.org. The winner gains +1 point.
 * the RNG will be from 1-10, attacker is evens, defender is odds
 * Morale: The nation who won last turn gains +1 point.
 * if a nation won the last 2 turns, +1.5, if the nation won the last 3, +2, if 4 +2.5 etc, etc
 * Only applies if the same two nations fought last turn.
 * NOTE: these will be modified as the game has less years per turn
 * Fortifications: The nation whose front-line is more fortified gains +1 point
 * If a fortified city is being attacked, the defender gains +2 points
 * NOTE: it must be stated clearly in turns if a city is fortified, and there must be a plausible reason as to why the battle is taking place at said city.
 * Air support: The nation who has better air support gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * If one army has twice the planes as the other, the army with more planes gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more planes than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Tank support: The nation who has better tanks gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * If one army has twice the tanks as the other, the army with more tanks gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more tanks than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Ship support: The nation who has better ship support gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * If one army has twice the ships as the other, the army with more ships gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more ships than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Agricultural output: The nation with more Agricultural output gains +1 point
 * vassals: for each vassal, a nation will gain points
 * +1 for a loyal vassal
 * +.5 for a new/unstable vassal
 * -1 for a rebellious vassal
 * Fronts: for every front after the first, the nation will lose -1 point

chinese and asian nations
I would like to play as the current ruling dynasty in china, if possible. regards~Tao64

Perfect timing. I plan on adding the Chines dynasties the following turn.

Knoxmoor (talk) 23:01, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Where are they right now? ~Tao64 PS reserve them plz

Don't worry, they will show up at 22:00 UTC. Get here quickly to grab one.

YES I got probably the strongest one.~Tao64

The Imperial league
I have made a page for the imperial league, for us to keep track of members, pass resolutions and ohter stuff like that. heres a link: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Imperial_league_%28The_Ashes_of_Rome_Map_Game%29

test algo
this is an algo for the west slav war against the celts. seeing as this algo is not official yet, knox can retrcon it if it is unplausable.


 * Size of the armies: The bigger army gains +1 point. +1 point, west Slavs
 * Economy: The nation with a bigger economy gains +1 point. +1 point, West Slavs
 * war exhaustion: The nation with less war exhaustion gains +1 point. +1 point, West Slavs
 * This refers to the nation that has had less wars in the past 10 turns
 * Battlefield: The nation who can take more advantage from the battlefield gains +1 point.+1 point, Celts
 * Defending: The nation who defends its homeland gains +1 point. +1 Point, celts
 * Supports: The nation who is supported by a foreign country (not one in the war!) will gain points for each supporting country. N/A(for now)
 * +1 for military aid
 * +.5 for economic aid
 * Luck: A random number will be generated by random.org. The winner gains +1 point. result, 8 +1 point, West Slavs
 * The RNG will be from 1-10, attacker is evens, defender is odds
 * Morale: The nation who won last turn gains +1 point. N/A
 * Fortifications: The nation whose front-line is more fortified gains +1 point (optional). +1 Point, Celts
 * If a fortified city is being attacked, the defender gains +2 points
 * NOTE: it must be stated clearly in turns if a city is fortified, and there must be a plausible reason as to why the battle is taking place at said city.
 * Air support: The nation who has better air support gains +1 point. (when applicable) N/A
 * Tank support: The nation who has better tanks gains +1 point. (when applicable) N/A
 * Agricultural output: The nation with more Agricultural output gains +1 point +1 point, West slavs
 * vassals: for each vassal, a nation will gain points N/A
 * +1 for a loyal vassal
 * +.5 for a new/unstable vassal
 * -1 for a rebellious vassal

West Slavic Confederation 5-3 Celtic league

Yeah...I've run a few tests on the algo using different scenarios, and it seems plausible about 50% of the time, which honestly, I think means it needs a bit of modification. I feel like the algo plays down army size and military technology a bit too much, and then plays up other factors. For example, in this situation, the Slavs would be attacking a nation situated on an island, and the Slavs don't exactly have the better navy. So I'm gonna say hold off on using this algo for now, but feel free to keep developing it. If you come up with one that seems to work the majority of the time, by all means, we will use it, and you could be Algo Mod if you'd like to.

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:37, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I will Make the needed modifications, and i would love to be the algo mod. As a side note, if there is no algo for this war, i think it would be plausible for the Celts to lose, as both me and the Carthaginians are attacking them. I think the algo will be done by tomorrow.

regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  19:55, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, the Celts will have some problems for sure.

Knoxmoor (talk) 20:10, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that "war exaustion" should refer the nation who has been to war the most in the past 10 turns, because 10 turns amounts to 50 years, and the nation with a lot of war in the past 50 years would have way more experience.

Maps
Shall I make a map page for this? Awesome history 28 (talk) 19:04, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

That would be splendid.

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:33, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, here it is; Maps (The Ashes of Rome). Awesome history 28 (talk) 17:01, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Invasion of Kalachuri by the Gupta empire.
Gupta

stability: +1

size: +1

weapons: +0

motive: +2

terrain: -1

population: +1

economy: +1

commander:+2

fronts: 0

fortifications: +0

morale: +1

vassals: +0.5

does the government want a war to occur? yes: +1

random number: (4) +1

total: 10.5

Kalachuri

stability: +1

size: -1

weapons: +0

motive: +2

population: +1

terrain: +1

economy: +1

commander:+1

fronts: 0

fortifications: +1

morale: +0

vassals: +0

does the government want a war to occur? no: -1

random number: (3) +0

total: 6

Leaving
I'm leaving the game due to a lot of exams and school work. Not sure if i can come back but feel free to erase my name on the Byzantine Empire Erizium (talk)

It's been a pleasure. Hope you can come back and rejoin us at some point.

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:21, August 12, 2015 (UTC)

yeah, im sorry, but i will have to do the same, becasue right now i am to caught up in other stuff to play. its been fun, Regards, <font color="Red">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  20:50, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Awwwww. Man. Later dude, sorry you gotta go. It was fun rekkin u in Lombard :pAfunnymouth (talk) 07:13, August 14, 2015 (UTC)

New
I'm new to this, and I'm a little lost. Do I read through the timeline and then pick an unclaimed nation and like write a story about what I do next? . -Snoopdigdogg11


 * Write a description of what your country does that turn, basically. Also, you might want to log into your account, or make one if you do not have one. –Alexander 22:27, August 13, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll make an account when I get the chance. I already put my name down for Ganga, but I think I want to change. Is that okay? - Snoopdigdogg11
 * That's fine. You haven't posted yet so that doesn't even count as a random switch. Hope you enjoy the map game, I'm sure you catch on quickly.
 * Knoxmoor (talk) 05:26, August 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Imade an edit. Tell me if I did anything wrong. Also that was a good read. - snoopdigdogg11
 * It looks great. Keep it up.
 * Knoxmoor (talk) 16:07, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Knoxmoor (talk) 16:07, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Korea
Could I play as Sillia? Candiesrgood (talk) 07:29, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Of course you can.

Knoxmoor (talk) 16:07, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Overexpansion
I think the Persian empire is overexpanding? Candiesrgood (talk) 11:53, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Archives
I tried editing, and for some reason it glitched out and I didn't see the page anymore. I dunno if it's a bug or just me, but I undid the edit just to be sure. I think there's too much on the page. Archives are needed.~Tao64

I'm about to archive it after the next turn. That glitch happened to me a couple of times a while back. The solution seemed to be resetting my browser.

Knoxmoor (talk) 15:56, August 21, 2015 (UTC)

It happens to me all the time on this page.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 18:21, August 21, 2015 (UTC)

Official algorithm
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Algorithm

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Casus Belli

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> None -5 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Staged Event -4 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Provoked -3 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Defending Honor -2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Helping Allies -1 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Political 0 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Reuniting Lands +1 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Defending People +2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Motives

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Life or Death of country +5 to defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Independence +3 to defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Religion +3 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Social or moral +2 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Economical +1 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Expansion and influence gaining 0 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Fake motives -5 to attacker.

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Landscape +20 for homeland, +10 for adjacent lands, +0 for non adjacent lands, -10 for across sea, -20 for across world

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> If in face of bigger army -5

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> If in face of smaller army +5

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> If previously won a battle against same opponent, +5, if lost, -5

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Fortifications

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Small +5 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Medium +10 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Large +20 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Mountains -5 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Jungle -6 attacker, +5 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Forests/swamps/hills +2 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Beach landing +3 defender, -1 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Island +3 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Desert -1 defender, -2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Polar -7 attacker, -1 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> War Monger -the number of turns of fighting

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Multiple fronts your troops will be divided by number of fronts if not specifying

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Army is +number of men divided by 20,000

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Economy +10 for great, +5 for good, +0 for ok, -5 for bad, -10 for non-existent

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Reputation +2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Tier +1-5 depending on power

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Sea dominance +4

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Technology +0-10

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Luck +5 (RNG used, evens for attacker and odds for defender)

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<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">-also Knoxmoor, war monger gives either side minus the number of turns previously fought.

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">so if a player fought 1 turn ago and is fighting again it would be -1 and so on

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">Revolution 9 (talk) 21:32, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> <h2 dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">Complaints 'WTF my navy non-existant????I have more navy than you noob -' Wrto12 in regards to Gothic claims of naval superiority

'''You are not eastern Carthage or Carthagenian at all,read some history for god's sake.You are actually a mix of Roman,Greek,Nomad(not black,idk arab?),Phoenician and Egyptian people. - Wrto12 in regards to the Kingdom of Africa '''

Wrto12, I am sorry to inform you of this since you clearly don't already know, but during your abscence, the Carthaginian navy was destroyed and mostly taken over by the Goths. Also, I'm not sure what your complaint with KOA is, I am assuming that this line is what upset you "Mbali   proposes  that a split from the barbaric west  Carthage  is necessary." ? If this Is what you are complaining about, I would like to inform you, that the way I interpretted this message was not that Africa was "splitting off" from Carthage as an independant, but rather than they would be breaking previously formulated alliances.

Afunnymouth (talk) 14:19, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

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