Talk:Night of the Living Alternate History/Archive 3

This page is an archive for the Night of the Living Alternate History talk page.

ISAF
When are we going to choose the HQ city for the ISAF?Daeseunglim (talk) 12:05, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

We should vote on the page and decide by next turn. Mscoree (talk) 14:09, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Proposals
From now on pages that are of questionable continuity, require reworking, or are not canon will have placed at the top. This signifies that it is currently not canon. Hopefully this will help avoid confusion. Mscoree (talk) 19:44, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

RoS Nuclear Weapons Program
I temporarily cancelled the nuke program. Do you mean I won't ever be able to build nuclear weapons? Berwick is under the RoS jurisdiction, and it seems as if the rest of PA is slightly discheveled, and I could get uranium from the plant. ThanksDaeseunglim (talk) 13:06, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

ISAF
So, have we actually passed anything? Because if not we should.Daeseunglim (talk) 13:21, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Bottom Hometage
Hey, the bottom tag that has the countries, organizations, etc, could someone add the Republic of Susquehanna? I can't, and would like my nation to be there.Daeseunglim (talk) 11:48, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Texas
'''Do you really need Santa Fe? Can't you just leave the harmless little nation alone?'''

'''Why, my good man, Rome was once a harmless, little city, easily crushable. Then it started expanding and winning wars, until it destroyed Carthage so thoroughly that Carthage was never a threat again. Texas will not become Carthage. (Besides, it's fun.) Doctor Evulz (talk) 22:56, May 20, 2013 (UTC)'''

'''There's another way. Simply turn Futura into a vassal. They'd be your harmless little loyal puppet, but still relatively independant. That'd be better for all parties involved.'''

Eh, I'll see how this goes first.

'''Why did you forget about Oklahoma and Northern Mexico? That's two plentiful sources of land that don't require bullying a smaller state. I hardly think little Futura is going to be a Rome.'''

'''Not to mention they're isolationist. Speaking of Rome, the city of Rome was actually heavily influenced by the Etruscans (like Texas to Futura) and the Etruscan kings' corrupt are one of the factors that contributed to Rome removing that system of government and expanding outward. You could be doing the same with Futura. '''

'''You do know this is like a college student picking on a group of elementary school kids? How the hell does a collection of microstates threaten the great and powerful Texas. I really loathe the Texan bullies right now. All this war does is justify their fear of the warmongering bastards in Austin.'''

Wow. I don't know who did this or why they're getting so upset, BUT... I completely agree. Texas is basically picking on these microstates for no good reason. Why do I do this? I dunno. To become a glorious empire or something I guess. Sorry, but sometimes it's just fun to be the bully.

Doctor Evulz (talk) 21:15, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: Another thing, they don't threaten us at all. That's just another politician spinning the truth to fit his own political goals.

I added the rest of this conversation to this page. Mscoree (talk) 21:42, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

No Algo = I get say what happens to Texas.

'''What the hell, Yankovic? The only reason I haven't posted for the last turn was so I could work on the algorithm. I asked Mscoree for help on HOW to do the algorithm, but he hasn't responded so I've been forced to do the research myself on five seperate cities. You sure didn't seem eager to do one yourself. Even if I didn't do the algorithm, you have no right to interfere with my elections. You've been posting how much you hate Texas, but this is completely unfair and biased! But you know what? Fine. If this is how it's going to be, I'll play by your rules.''' Doctor Evulz (talk) 18:37, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

'''Yank, I know you like the New Mexico nations, but don't use your moderator powers to control Texas. If Texas wants to keep invading they can. Mscoree (talk) 19:46, May 26, 2013 (UTC)'''

Italy and CM
This was probably mentioned elsewhere, but why can't the Kingdom of Italy join the CM anyways? They obviously want to, and I haven't found the exact reason.

Doctor Evulz (talk) 00:21, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

In the rules it states that, "Unions are allowed through dynastic or personal claims, in a realistic and timely manner, however nations cannot use unions to unrealistically bypass conquests." You can't ask every nation in the world to join your nation since it is implausible, especially without cause, and you can easily sockpuppet or convince someone you know to accept. Also in this particular situation, since Italy is a more "legitimate" and prestigious nation, it doesn't make since that the island of Sardinia would ask Italy to join it. Mscoree (talk) 19:00, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Causi Belli
Terrorist Attack (-3)

Unification (0)

(No stability drop)

Location Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Military Development

 * Your current army score:22.5
 * Naval: 3

Motive

 * motive is political: 5

Chance

 * UTC time: 2:40
 * Opponent's edit count: 2530
 * 8% of 2530 = 202.4
 * 202.4 * pi = 635.858353
 * chance is 5

Stability

 * 25

Participation

 * +10

Forces
100000/20000 = 5

Total: 80.5

Yue
Location Tactical Advantage Nations Per Side on the War
 * next to the location of the war: 5
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Military Development Motive
 * Your current army score: 10
 * Industry: 8
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10

Chance
Stability Participation
 * UTC time: 2:40
 * Opponent's edit count: 103
 * 8% of 103 = 8.24
 * 8.24 * pi = 25.8867235
 * chance is 8
 * 25
 * All nations get a +10 on this

Forces
20000/100000 = 0.2

Total: 77.2

Austria invades Lichenstein
Okay I started the war in game but I don't know how this game's algorithm works. I request help with doing it. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Causi Belli
Political blunder (-1)

Acquire Core (-2)

(No stability drop)

Location Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Military Development

 * Your current army score: 12.5

Motive

 * motive is political: 5

Chance

 * UTC time: 11:12
 * Opponent's edit count: 2546
 * 2% of 2546 = 50.92
 * 50.92 * pi = 159.969898
 * chance is 9

Stability

 * 25

Participation

 * +10

Forces
150,000/10,000 = 15

Total: 81.5

Liechtenstein
Location Tactical Advantage Nations Per Side on the War
 * next to the location of the war: 5
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Military Development Motive
 * Your current army score: 10
 * Industry: 4
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10

Chance
Stability Participation
 * UTC time: 11:12
 * Opponent's edit count: 7088
 * 2% of 7088 = 141.76
 * 141.76 * pi = 445.352175
 * chance is 5
 * 25
 * All nations get a +10 on this

Forces
10000/150000 = 0.06

Total: 76.06

Discussion
Can you help explain this to me so I know for future reference? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:02, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

To summarize the rules page, every major battle requires an algorithm. When you declare war you first must decide why you are declaring war and what you seek to gain, just like in real life. This is called your causi belli and your objective(s). You total up the number from each your causi belli and objective, and if your number is positive, you subtract that amount from your stability. If it is zero or negative no nothing to your stability.

Next you do the actual algorithm. This uses similar elements as other popular map game algorithms (such as PM2), such as location, tactical advantage, etc. The algorithm should be preformed on both parties. At the end everything is totaled and the person with the highest number wins.

Some unique mechanics I should mention are the leader and soldiers modifiers. If you have a named, prestigious general (for example the US has used people such as Westmoreland and Abrams. If you can't find any you may make one up, with the appropriate context and back story.) then you can add some extra points depending on the leadership of your general. With the soldiers mechanic, you divide your soldiers by the number of enemies (each party does this).

Message me if you have any questions. Mscoree (talk) 22:46, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Moderator Application
Hi there, I'm Doctor Evulz, the player of Texas. I'll admit it, I haven't been the most plausible, expanding too fast, but I have pointed out several more examples of implausibility from others, and I'm willing to think up mod events. I know how to be neutral in moderator events (I won't write any relating to Texas), and I have experience in map games. The only thing I'll need help with would be algorithms.

Doctor Evulz (talk) 00:07, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'll add you as a junior moderator for now. Welcome aboard. Mscoree (talk) 01:53, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to apply as well. My posting is decent, and have been mostly plausible. I also would like to try and write a few moderator events, if it's okay. -Kogasa  2013 May 30, 15:49 (CET)

Your application has been approved. Welcome aboard. Mscoree (talk) 14:21, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Causi Belli
Political blunder (-1)

Acquire Core (-2)

(No stability drop)

Location Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Military Development

 * Your current army score: 10

Motive

 * motive is political: 5

Chance

 * UTC time: 6:57
 * Opponent's edit count: 2,674
 * 210% of 2,674 = 5615.4
 * 5615.4 * pi = 17 641.2994
 * chance is 6

Stability

 * 25

Participation

 * +10

Forces
55,000/70,000 = 0.785714286

1

Total: 62

Bay Republic
Location Tactical Advantage Nations Per Side on the War
 * next to the location of the war: 5
 * High ground/ambush: 2
 * Cascadia: (S)
 * Alaska: (S)

4 Military Development Motive
 * Your current army score: 10
 * Industry: 4
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10

Chance
Stability Participation
 * UTC time: 6:57
 * Opponent's edit count: 162
 * 210% of 162 = 340.2
 * 340.2 * pi = 1068.76982
 * chance is 6
 * 25
 * All nations get a +10 on this

Forces
70,000/55,000 = 1.27272727

1

Total: 78

Result
The invaders are pushed from San Francisco.

Discussion
'''You gave the Bay Republic 'Next to the war +5' and North California 'At the War +4', did you get the numbers confused or the locations? Local (talk)'''

No. Mscoree (talk) 19:55, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Causi Belli
None (+3)

Objective
Install dictatorship (+3)

Stability drops 6 points

Location
At the war (5)

Tactical advantage
High ground (2)

Military Development
1*10 = 10

Expansion
0

Motive
Life or death (10)

Chance

 * UTC time: 19:49


 * Opponent's edit count (Doctor Evulz): 602


 * 324% of 602 = 1950.48


 * 1950.48*pi = 6127.61363897

Chance: 1

Stability
44/2 = 22

Participation
10

Leader

 * Random number: 3


 * 997,000/54,667 = 18.2376936726


 * 3*18.2376936726 = 54.7130810178

David Duke dies, -10

Number
54,667/997,000

Approximately equal 0

Result
50

Objective
Civil War (0)

No stability drop

Location
Close to the location of the war: 3

Military development
2*10 = 20

Expansion
-5

Motive
Political: 5

Chance
Note: Since Mscoree made the mod event, I’m using him as the opponent.


 * UTC time: 19:49


 * Opponent’s edit count: 2,667


 * 324% of 2,667: 8641.08

Chance: 8

Stability
46/2 = 23

Participation
10

Leader

 * Random number: 5


 * 997,000/54,667 = 0.05483149448


 * 0.05483149448*5 = 0.27415747241

General is fine


 * Number of victories: 0


 * Number of battles: 1


 * (0/1) + 5 = 5

Number
997,000/54,667 = 18.2376936726

Simplifies to 18

Result
87

Total Result
The rebels are crushed; Duke is captured and killed.

Discussion
This is my first algorithm, so if there are any issues or mistakes, please point them out. Doctor Evulz (talk) 00:59, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Lunar colonies
Lunar colonies? Seriously? Didn't we deal with this ASB bullshit before? --Yank 13:49, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Other than its not "ASB bullshit". One. I didnt randonmly declare that I had a lunar base, without developing my space program. Two. Neither have I expanded the lunar base to the size of OTL Russia, as France had. Three. I have actually followed the plan layed out by the OTL Apollo Applications Program, which was designed to have a lunar base by 1976. Also OTL Project Horizon, was supposed to bring a lunar outpost by 1966. My Space Program could be considered highly successful and prized as I have launched six manned missions to the moon. Also my plan is quite detailed and uses technology that was availible in the late 70s, and I have improved upon (solar pannels, building  materials for extreme environments, minerals, etc). Also it took me one year to research the plan alone, a snail's pace. Let me know what part of this plan you consider ASB, and I am sure i can give  you an OTL plan that was supposed to implement something similar, but lacked the funding and desire from the governments of Earth. G greg e (talk) 14:15, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Excitment
Can we play a s 2 nations and to add more excitmet can you have a mods section where people cab suggest the mods of the day. Octivian Marius (talk) 00:38, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mods of the day? We don't have a mods of the day system, do we? Why would we do that? If someone's good and they request to be a mod, mod them up! Doctor Evulz (talk) 01:40, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mods in my opion our the bog bolded events that happen on the top of the page. I think the people should be able to pick one. Octivian Marius (talk) 02:15, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

A moderator is a person. The moderator events are the things at the start of each turn. We will not have "favorite moderator events." Mscoree (talk) 14:38, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Coding
What happened? I was making an edit, and this happened.Daeseunglim (talk) 12:48, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

It might have been a coding error. That happens sometimes when you paste something in visual mode. Mscoree (talk) 14:40, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Italy
I made a page for Italy please stop by and comment on its talk page.

Causi Belli
Terrorist attack (-3)

War of Unification (0)

(No stability drop)

Location Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Nations Per Side on the War

 * Scandinavia(MS)
 * Texas(MS)

10

Military Development

 * Your current army score: 15.0

Motive

 * motive is social or moral: 6

Chance

 * UTC time: 3:19
 * Opponent's edit count: 2,842
 * 27% of 2,842 = 767.34
 * 767.34 * pi = 2410.66970681
 * chance is 1

Stability

 * 25

Participation

 * +10

Forces
100,000/100,000

Total: 73

Venice
Location Tactical Advantage Nations Per Side on the War
 * next to the location of the war: 5
 * Basic earthworks, makeshift defenses, ruins: 3
 * Lombardy (MS)
 * Croatia (MS)
 * Austria (MS)
 * Switzerland (MS)

20 Military Development Motive
 * Your current army score: 10
 * Industry: 4
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10

Chance
Stability Participation
 * UTC time: 3:19
 * Opponent's edit count: 391
 * 27% of 391 =105.57
 * 105.57 * pi = 331.657936439
 * chance is 1
 * 25
 * All nations get a +10 on this

Forces
100,000/100,000

Total: 89

Result
The Italian forces encounter heavy resistance and are pinned down along the advance toward Ferrari. The Allies successfully hold back the invaders.

Discussion
I put 100.000/100,000 for forces. If Italy is more specific on the number of troops, or if anyone has any other evidence to the number of soldiers, then I will revise that. Mscoree (talk) 20:54, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

What I hate
We need to have a Inquisition of the nations that have not done anything in a month. We would disband there nation and let the active nations to turn it into a puppet. Octivian Marius (talk) 22:03, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

That is so far beyond implausible that I don't know what to say. For starters, there's always a chance they might come back. If we had done this since the beginning, I wouldn't have been able to play. Also, when was the last time you heard news from, say, East Timor? Probably more than a month ago if at all. But Indonesia didn't make them a puppet. Why would it be any different here? Doctor Evulz (talk) 23:40, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Just becauce no one is playing as a nation doesn't mean you can instantly control them as a puppet. Mscoree (talk) 14:03, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Well then we should just make them NPCs if they haven't had any player posts in a while. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 15:35, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

That's basically how the system already works. Mscoree (talk) 15:58, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Then please NPC the UK he hasn't posted in a long time Local (talk)

Scandinavia
It seems Scandinavia would be very much against the Kingdom of Italy considering they uncovered the conspiracy behind the whole terrorist attack. Doctor Evulz (talk) 23:42, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia, played by former CM player and Octavian's friend, has no reason to favor Italy, which is why I believe this is completely meta gaming. They did sign a defensive pact, but that also was random and slightly implausible. I'll allow it for now, but we must cut back on meta gaming. Mscoree (talk) 14:09, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Just coming back.... So, can we have solid proof in a mod event that Italy was part of a conspiracy. It was never too clear to me (call me dense), but I thought it was Croatians who attacked the Minister of War. If a mod event shows this, I will pull back my support of Italy, and we will assist the Croatians to defeat the liars. Thanks, Reximus55 (talk) 00:57, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it stated unbiased Scandinavians discovered the conspiracy. Doctor Evulz (talk) 01:09, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

If you check the archives, I show, " Unbiased Scandinavian researchers have proven that the attacks on Rome were in fact terrorist attacks funded by Venetian Lombardy to create chaos in Italy. " in 1988.25. Up to you guys, but it seems that Venice caused the war. Reximus55 (talk) 01:39, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

My mistake, I've been reading the whole thing wrong. However, above that it states: ' The terrorist attacks cause many to join the Italian army. Opponents of the Italian government uncover evidence of the terrorist attack being orchestrated by the government, infuriating many. The death of Giovanni Spadolini and other high ranking Italian officers is believed to have been in an effort to cover up the conspiracy. '

Doctor Evulz (talk) 01:56, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

I've solved the problem with my latest post. We are no longer in league with Italy. Reximus55 (talk) 09:28, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

The moderator event before the one Doctor Evulz posted also states that, " Italian Minister of Defense Giovanni Spadolini is found assassinated and left hanging in the streets of Rome. Opponents of the current government piece together that Spadolini was connected to the bombings earlier that year.

So in summary the Italian government orchestrated the first terrorist attack in Rome, starting the war. Since the war began both sides have been responsible for bombings on the other side. Mscoree (talk) 16:01, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

The first attack was not in Rome. Octivian Marius (talk) 21:45, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yes they were. To quote your own words, "The Kingdom's darkest day begins, when the King the Pope and the Prime minister are in a meeting. They are assassinated. St. Peter's Basilica is bombed destroying Vatican City." The bomb detonated presumingly in Vatican City or in the area around it. Vatican City is inside Rome. Mscoree (talk) 22:19, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

ZXM Program
Everyone has misunderstood me, I have lost all my alliances, can I quit. Octivian Marius (talk) 13:32, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, man. My suggestion is to ride through the storm. Stay strong and you'll pull through. You have over twenty more years to regain those alliances. I really hope you stay. Doctor Evulz (talk) 13:38, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Can you at least stay and support me. Octivian Marius (talk) 13:48, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ps can you come on chat.

I'm playing as Texas and Texas doesn't and can't support zombie warfare. Doctor Evulz (talk) 14:34, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

I have suspended it for now!! Octivian Marius (talk) 15:07, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

I know, but Texas still will not support Italy with the knowledge that the Italians will stoop so low as biological warfare. Doctor Evulz (talk) 15:59, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

If you think strategically you might be able to fight off the invaders for long enough, and get some help. If you quit, you lose no matter what, so you might as well try to survive as long as possible and have an epic last stand. Besides, if you get eliminated you can always choose to play as another nation. Mscoree (talk) 16:04, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

The ZXM program and Operation Hurricane where my new form of stadagy but no one liked them. Octivian Marius (talk) 21:47, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Epic last stands are fun, it would have been better if I could post, but it was still fun to watch how.omg it took the USA and.UK to.defeat a small survivor community in a ruined city Local (talk)

Reminds me of the gold old days when I was Turkey. But now I'm playing as Russia :) Edboy452 (talk) 22:55, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

==Wu-Tibet War ==

Causi Belli
None (+3) Unification (0) (Stability decreases to 47)

  Battle of Qamdo  Wu 

 Location

 Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4

==== Nations Per Side on the War ==== Japan (S): 2 ==== Military Development ==== ==== Motive ==== ==== Chance ==== ==== Stability ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Participation" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Participation ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Forces" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Forces ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">200000/20000 = 10
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1
 * Your current army score:30
 * motive is political: 5
 * UTC time: 2:10
 * Opponent's edit count: 6
 * 12% of 6 = 0.12=reciprocal: 8.33333
 * 8.333333 * pi = 26.1799387799
 * chance is 7
 * 23.5
 * +10

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Total: 91.5 ===<span class="mw-headline" id="Yue" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Tibet === <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Location

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Tactical Advantage
 * next to the location of the war: 5

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Nations Per Side on the War
 * High Ground, Ambush: 2

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Military Development

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Motive
 * Your current army score: 10
 * Industry: 8

====<span class="mw-headline" id="Chance_2" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Chance ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Stability
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * UTC time: 2:10
 * Opponent's edit count: 181
 * 2% of 181 = 3.62
 * 3.62 * pi = 11.372565406
 * chance is 7

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Participation
 * 25

====<span class="mw-headline" id="Forces_2" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Forces ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">100000/20000 = 5
 * All nations get a +10 on this

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Total: 82 ===<span class="mw-headline" id="Result" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Result === <span class="editsection" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:10px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;float:none;font-size:13px;">A victory for the Wu, who can now attack Lhasa, the capital of Tibet. 20000 Wu soldiers died in this battle, while 40000 Tibetan soldiers died. After dispatching 30000 soldiers to stabilize Qamdo, 150000 Wu soldiers march on Lhasa, where the remaining 60000 soldiers, banded up with 10000 militias take their last stand.

You can't just annex a nation because you won one battle. Edboy452 (talk) 16:05, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

===<span class="mw-headline" id="Discussion_3" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Discussion ===

Battle of Lhasa
<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Wu 

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Location

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4

====<span class="mw-headline" id="Nations_Per_Side_on_the_War" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Nations Per Side on the War ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"><span class="editsection" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:10px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;float:none;font-size:13px;">Japan (S): 2 ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Military_Development" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Military Development ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Motive" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Motive ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Chance" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Chance ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Stability" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Stability ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Participation" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Participation ==== ====<span class="mw-headline" id="Forces" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Forces ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">150000/20000 = 7.5
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1
 * Your current army score:30
 * motive is political: 5
 * UTC time: 2:54
 * Opponent's edit count: 6
 * 40% of 6 = 2.4
 * 2.4 * pi =7.53982236862
 * chance is 3
 * 23.5
 * +10

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Total: 86 ===<span class="mw-headline" id="Yue" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Tibet === <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Location

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Tactical Advantage
 * next to the location of the war: 5

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Nations Per Side on the War
 * High Ground, Ambush: 2

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Military Development

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Motive
 * Your current army score: 10
 * Industry: 8

====<span class="mw-headline" id="Chance_2" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Chance ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Stability
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * UTC time: 2:54
 * Opponent's edit count: 181
 * 40% of 181 = 72.4
 * 72.4 * pi = 227.45130812
 * chance is 5

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Participation
 * 25

====<span class="mw-headline" id="Forces_2" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"> Forces ==== <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">70000/20000 = 3.5
 * All nations get a +10 on this

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Total: 78.5 ===<span class="mw-headline" id="Result" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Result === <p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;"><span class="editsection" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:10px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;float:none;font-size:13px;">Lhasa is taken after heavy losses. With their capital captured, Tibetans surrender to Wu and Tibet is annexed into Wu territory at 1990. <span class="editsection" style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:10px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;float:none;font-size:13px;">

Miscommunication Newsletter
ATTENTION EVERYONE

I've noticed that they have been a number of miscommunications and errors recently, partially from the colors on the map, and partially from people just making up stuff. So to clarify:
 * Russia is one country! Socialist Siberia does not exist! During the dissolution of the USSR some of the hard-line communists moved to Siberia and advocated for the creation of such a state, but that never came true, especially now with the agreement with the other USSR nations.
 * Romania controls its OTL borders, not just the proclaimed area of "New Romania". Also you do not control Istanbul, Thrace does. Sorry for the confusion, but they were accidentally made similar colors. Romania, Moldova, Russia, and all the other nations of the former USSR and Warsaw Pact are in the Collective Security Treaty Organization.

Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 13:34, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning what the CSTO is because I was really confused about it since there was no page for it. When I have the time, I'll make the page. Edboy452 (talk) 17:18, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Your page is incorrect. It should look like this:  Mscoree (talk) 18:11, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

The link doesn't work. Edboy452 (talk) 18:16, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I didn't know it was an actual military alliance. Edboy452 (talk) 18:31, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Look through the game archives for more information on the organization. Some of the countries you listed don't even exist in this timeline. Mscoree (talk) 18:39, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Also since you said that Turkmenistan doesn't exist yet (As a nation), can you fix that on the map. It's the piece of land that's uncolored between Russia and Iran. Edboy452 (talk) 19:11, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Make a request in the correct place. Mscoree (talk) 00:00, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Venice
Venice and Allies

Total: 80
 * Location: 5
 * At the Location of the War
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * No defenses, open field, etc
 * Nations Per Side on War: 7
 * Austria (MS), Russia (S)
 * Military Development:14
 * Army: 10
 * Industry: 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened)
 * Chance: 7
 * Current UTC Time: 2256 = 120
 * Edit Posts x Percent: 2,978x1.20=3,573.6
 * Chance is 7
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 1
 * No Actual Amount
 * Approximate: 75,000/125,000= 0.6

Italy

Total: 58
 * Location: 3
 * Close to the location of the war
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * No defenses, open field, etc
 * Military Development: 11
 * Army: 15
 * Expansion: - 4
 * Motive: 6
 * Motive is Social/Moral
 * Chance: 2
 * Current UTC Time: 2256 = 120
 * Edit Posts x Percent: 444x120=53,280
 * Chance is 2
 * Stability: 23
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of troops: 2
 * No Actual Amount
 * Approximate: 125,000/75,000= 1.66666_

Venice easily holds out while the Italians had taken heavy losses and retreated from Venice.

I think that the motive is unifactionial because the head party in Italy has made this a war for unification. And this needs a overveiw, lots of stuff our off.

'''Unification goes towards an economical motive. Also what is off?''' Edboy452 (talk) 22:19, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Actually unification is social/moral, and at the very least political. Mscoree (talk) 00:16, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Ok then let me change that to social/moral than. Edboy452 (talk) 00:22, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

My stability is at a 50, Bosinia needs to be added and troops now have a number. Octivian Marius (talk) 14:04, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Thats still only brings the score to 80 Venice - Bosnia probably cant send troops but would be likely to be able to send supplies? Not sure how this would work with the blockade. nevertheless that still only puts the score at 80-62. G greg e (talk)

Also my troops numbers need to be adressed. Octivian Marius (talk) 20:13, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

You ned to share how many troops you are using. G greg e (talk) 20:29, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I did, 125,000 Octivian Marius (talk) 20:34, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Then it is correct. G greg e (talk) 20:42, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Game continuation past 2013?
It seems that the game is still progressing very well, despite my earlier thoughts.

I would like to question the owner and moderators of this game, will we continue past 2013 if it gets to the point? If we can not progress further, we could probably relocate to the future history wikia or the map game wikia.

--  OreoToast555(Talk) 22:57, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

It would be good, but we would have to move the game, and I don't know the rules about that Local (talk)

According to the rules of the wiki the game ends at the present date. After that, I personally do not want it to continue on the future history wiki, etc. Instead I might consider another project to undertake. Mscoree (talk) 00:18, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Not trying to tell you what to do, but I have 2 different ideas: 1.- Move NotLAH to another wiki (ie: Map game Wiki, Future Wiki, etc.) with however many people want to (If Mscoree is cool with that) or, 2. I started a map game called Rebuild. I had abandoned it some time ago simply because I had a lot to do for about a month, and couldn't post the MOD posts. I am willing to allow Mscoree to take over as MOD, and restart. It starts from the Cuban Missile Crisis turning into a nulcear exchange (1961) and will go by quarter year turns. It was already established. One condition I have is I continue to play as the US in that game. Let me know what you guys think.

I'd rather we don't go into the future. It'd be entirely speculation and moderating it would be a whole lot harder. Plus, we'd have to relocate to another wiki, which is complicated. It's a real honor to even complete a map game, most fizzle out. Anyways, I say we should have a cooling down period between this game and any new projects. Time for Mscoree to think of new ideas and rules for future projects, should he choose to do any. I like the idea of Rebuild, and I'd play it. Doctor Evulz (talk) 03:44, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I have a few ideas for other map games I'd like to try. Some have also showed interest in a "NotLAH Two", possibly with some new mechanics. Mscoree (talk) 13:18, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

It should be like: NotLAH: Reloaded or something. OreoToast555(Talk) 13:33, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I am for a NotLAH: Reloaded-esque Map Game, for I joined the game (very) late, and would like to join the game when it actually began. Bfoxius (talk) 15:35, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough, but we're definitely not naming it after the worst film of the Matrix franchise. Mscoree (talk) 16:04, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Fine then, NotLAH: Revolutions. Doctor Evulz (talk) 16:28, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, and I think I want to play as the Falklands from the beginning, London was fun, but was always going to end that way, I also stopped posting for a bit in the 1970s Local (talk) 23:49, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to explore a Texas where Duke wins and the Texan Border War is successful. Doctor Evulz (talk) 23:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

We aren't finished yet though Local (talk) 07:19, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

NotLAH: New World Order,  also i think all current players should have dibs on their current nations if they wish G greg e (talk) 19:00, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

I like that.Daeseunglim (talk) 19:12, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Last Stand
If it goes badly, just retreat to Rome and make the invasion cost them a LOT

'''Yea I agree with that. The only downside is that if the invaders actually win that single battle, a gigantic chunk of your military will be lost.''' Edboy452 (talk) 23:07, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I meant if you are clearly going to lose, you can either get picked off in little bits until you are too weak for a last stand, or you could go guerrilla warfare in the mountains, or you could retreat all your forces to Rome and have a badass last stand,.I wouldn't go for the first one, and the third will hurt your enemies the most

'''Again I agree, but the third one can also have a huge downside. If your country gets invaded, its land will be taken with ease, then your forces will be put under siege which can actually make your troops lose morale and turn by turn give up.''' Edboy452 (talk) 23:08, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I suppose that when you play as a whole country, last stands are more difficult to arrange than as a city state, London's last stand was truly legendary, I had a population of 30,000 and it took them 2 years to invade me, but as a whole country, go for the 2nd option, but only when you are clearly going to lose, if not, keep fighting Local (talk) 23:11, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Edboy, I think you misunderstand what he's saying. He knows that it has a downside and that his soldiers will lose morale. That's the point. By having an epic last stand his men die, yes, but they have the most successful deaths of the war. They dislodge the enemy to the fullest of their ability. If he does not have a last stand his men still lose morale, etc, but this way they die killing as many enemies as possible. Mscoree (talk) 00:21, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I knew that, I was talking about how if you did this tactic when you didn't lose any land at all to the enemy. Edboy452 (talk) 00:24, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Hey I an playing defense on my troops and a Naval offense. Octivian Marius (talk) 13:44, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Except you don't really have a navy. Mscoree (talk) 16:27, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Italy Discussion
OK, first of all, you're under a massive embargo so there is no possible way to even send aid to an ally on the other side of the world, and you wouldn't know what's happening because all radio signals entering and exiting your nation are jammed. Second of all you can't capture the leaders of a foreign country instantly. I'll let the thing with the oil slip by though.

BTW you lost the algorithm for the Battle of Venice by 25 points.

I'm not letting the oil slip by. You've lost considerably. There's no way you could capture and keep ten thousand barrels of oil. Doctor Evulz (talk) 23:51, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Jet skis, really? It's come to this?

For some reason, this sort of sounds like something just as implausible out of the game Saints Row.

I just realized I underlined instead of striking through. Doctor Evulz (talk) 00:39, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Hey I am desperate, I even have my backup nation planned, can I start posting for them next turn? Octivian Marius (talk) 01:38, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Unless you quit as the Kingdom of Italy and play that nation without meta-gaming or being bias towards the nation that you used to play as, then yes. Edboy452 (talk) 16:42, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Nation Tiers
I am currently redoing the Nation Tiers (Night of the Living Alternate History Map Game) page. Got any suggestions?

A good start would be to list all the primary nations (from the template) as superpowers or major powers. Nations that are powerful in their continent, or are a secondary nation should probably be third tier. This would be Canada, Spain, Austria, South Africa, maybe the Netherlands, maybe Brazil, etc. Small nations that are still important in heir region would be fourth. This would probably be Italy, Dinetah, Northern California, Bay Republic, Saudi Arabia, etc. Smaller, less powerful nations would be five. This would include Guyana, Vietnam, and all the other nations that are too big to be tier six but not powerful enough to be four. Six would be minor vassals, dependencies, and city states, such as the  duchies and principalities of the HRE, Providence, and maybe Elba. From there we an always tweak it. Mscoree (talk) 16:03, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe something should be new should be added to the algorithm, depending on what national tier you nation is currently at. Edboy452 (talk) 17:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Superpower: +5
 * Major Power: +3
 * Regional Powers: +3 (Has to be within continent for bonus)

Just some suggestions for now. Edboy452 (talk) 17:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

C'mon. I would be a major power by now. Just because I have not been expanding influence around the world yet does not mean I will not be able to do so. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:10, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think 'stralia is in the major powers due to its heavy influence over alot of Oceania   OreoToast555(Talk) 04:37, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

I think Texas would be a regional power, maybe on the verge of becoming a major power. Doctor Evulz (talk) 21:34, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Causi Belli
Faked Terrorist Attack on Former Religious Site (UM and Catholics wished to have rebuilt) -1

Aquire Core (Rome was once part of the UM) -2

Establish Democracy +2

Modifiers: Religious Motive -2

Total: -3, no stability drop

NB: This war will be declared should Italy not respond with peace with Venice and her allies including the UM, by the end of the turn 1990.50.

United Med v Kingdom of Italy
United Med

Battle Plan: Airstrikes on key military outposts, the UM will invade the beachhead and conquer the area Nueva Rome and retake the Vatican. Extra weapons will be brought to arm uprisers. The UM Navy will contian and destroy military harbors, ports, and instilations along the doc. Identifications of these buildings is provided from URs URSA satelittes and additional intellegence from the top UR agents.

<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;"> Location

Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 4
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Nations Per Side on the War
United Med (L) United Republics (S) Portugal (MSV) Granada (MSV) Elba (MS) South Africa (S) Russia (S) 17pts

Venice Coalition: Venice (S), Lombardy (S), Austria (S), Croatia (S), Switzerland (S) 10 points

Supplies expected from many other nations

Military Development
Expansion
 * Your current army score: 1.25X10 = 12.5
 * Naval: 1.75 x 3 =5.25

-2 in the last 10 years (Sicily and Granada)

Motive

 * motive is religious: 7

Chance

 * UTC time: 8:12
 * Opponent's edit count: 468
 * 16% of 468 = 74.88
 * 74.88 * pi = 235.1232
 * chance is 5

Stability

 * 50/2 = 25

Participation

 * +10

Forces
N/A right now (waiting on responses from nations)

84.75 (also more nations may be added under per side of the war), 94.75 if the Venice Allies back this invasion.

Italy

Location Tactical Advantage
 * at the location of the war: 5
 * High ground/ambush: 2

Nations Per Side on the War
Italy (L)

Military Development
Expansion
 * Your current army score: 1.5 X10 = 15
 * Naval: 1.5 x 3 =4.5
 * Industry 4

-3 (Rome and moving Northward)

Motive

 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10

Chance

 * UTC time: 8:12
 * Opponent's edit count: 719
 * 16% of 468 = 115.04
 * 115.04 * pi = 361.2256
 * chance is 1

Stability

 * 50/2 = 25

Participation

 * +10

Forces
N/A right now (waiting on responses from nations)

73.5

Nuclear Weapons
Do we need dozens of nuclear weapons-equipped states? The ULN needs to do something about this. Hell, they'd have a fit. Think about what the USA does in real life when nations like Iran and North Korea try to get ONE nuclear weapon! We need something like the Non-Proliferation Treaty (which should still exist here). Doctor Evulz (talk) 17:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

We do have the Non-Proliferation Treaty. I say we demand that these nations disarm. Mscoree (talk) 19:23, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. South Africa developed nukes in the 1960s OTL, so I would still have them. Now, we would be willing to form an alliance to disarm all these rouge nations developing nuclear weapons. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:27, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

RoS's posession is beyond implausible unless the US gave them some, even then its still implausable. OreoToast555(Talk) 20:42, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

I say they're bluffing. Mscoree (talk) 21:12, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

I've made a page detailing nuclear weapons here. Mscoree (talk) 02:26, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

Causi Bell

 * Political blunder (-1)

Objective

 * Containment (0)
 * In a coalition with more than three nations

Total: -1
 * No Stability Loss

Battle
Allied Forces (Russia's Stats)

Total: 132
 * Location: 2
 * Far from Location of the War
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * High Ground/Ambush/Amphibious Assault
 * Nations Per Side: 45
 * United States (MS), United Republics (MS), South Africa (MS), Commonwealth (MS), Texas (MS), Republic of Susquehanna (MS), Scandinavia (MS), Greece (MS), Ukraine (MS)
 * Military Development: 36
 * Army: 30
 * Navy: 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Motive is Political
 * Chance: 4
 * UTC Time: 21:52
 * Opponents Edit Count: 468
 * 20% of 468 is 93.6
 * 93.6 x Pi = 294.053072
 * Chance is 4
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 8
 * 2,450,000/300,000=8.16666_

Kingdom of Italy Total: 62
 * Location: 4
 * Next to the Location of the War
 * Defender: 1
 * No defenses, open field, etc
 * Nations per Side:
 * Military Development: 19
 * Army: 15
 * Industry: 4
 * Motive: 10
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened)
 * Chance: 3
 * UTC Time: 21:52
 * Opponents Edit Count: 710
 * 20% of 710 is 71
 * 71 x Pi = 223.053078
 * Chance is 3
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * 300,000/2,450,000= 0.1222

Result: Operation: Nero was a major success for the allies. Capturing the whole of the Italian coast and multiple tens of kilometers inland have been captured and are held as staging areas for future attacks. The Italians have taken extreme casualties and retreated.

Operation: Hellfire
Republic of Susquehanna


 * Location: 4
 * Next to Location of War
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * No Cover, Open Field, Etc...
 * Military Development: 15
 * Army: 15
 * Motive: 6
 * Motive is Social or Moral
 * Chance: 4
 * Current UTC Time: 17:37
 * 147% of 3,125 is 4593.75
 * 4593.75 x Pi = 14,431.6913
 * Chance is 4
 * Stability: 20
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 4
 * 10,000/2,500=4

Total: 64

Rebels
 * Location: 5
 * At the Location of the War
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * No Cover, Open Field, Etc...
 * Military Development: 10
 * Army: 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive is Life or Death
 * Chance: 2
 * Current UTC Time: 17:37
 * 147% of 461 is 677.67
 * 677.67 x Pi = 2128.96309
 * Chance is 2
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * 2,500/10,000= 0.25

Total: 63

Result: A stalemate emerges, with Susquehanna having the smallest of edges.

The RoS commited 3,000 troops, 2,000 national guardsmen, and 5,000 milita. Plus 2 squadrons of F-12's.Daeseunglim (talk) 18:13, June 16, 2013 (UTC)