Talk:North Carolina (1983: Doomsday)

I have adopted this article --Owen1983 14:46, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

No. I would like a more responsible member to adopt this. Arstarpool 14:57, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. No offense, Owen, but given that three editors (SouthWriter, Fxgentleman and myself) are involved with survivor states in the former state, and given your history, I have to insist that someone else who better understands the region in this timeline adopt the article. If this is a gateway article, there's not really much you can do anyway, besides describe what's currently going on in the state. As the caretaker for Blue Ridge, I can say that Blue Ridge and Outer Banks are the only known large, functioning survivor states, and in between them are very small survivor communities, farms, communes in between blast zones. BrianD 15:25, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

there is still a long way to go but this is not my operating region so there is a lot I need help with--Owen1983 15:40, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Owen, does it matter to you what's been established as canon regarding Blue Ridge and Outer Banks? You have Raleigh and Charlotte listed in your info box. Both cities would have undoubtedly been targeted on Doomsday, yet you assume their existence and survival. How do you explain that? BrianD 15:43, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Brian. Owen, you obviously don't know anything about the region. Already what you have written contradicts canon. You are the last person who should adopt this article. Mitro 16:04, September 11, 2010 (UTC) I checked out

Blue Ridge (1983: Doomsday) and they will regard it as unclaimed territory and they will move back when its safe so this article maybe obsolete--Owen1983 17:52, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Owen, I have no idea what you just said. Mitro 19:06, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the nuclear targets map, I see five candidates for small survivor communities.They are Greensboro, Durham, Kannapolis, Greenville and Kinston. Three of them (Greensboro, Durham and Kannapolis) would have " up to 25% casualties, light damage to commercial buildings, and severe damage to small residences" due to their being on the outer ring of nearby impacts. Two of the (Greenville and Kinston) would be mostly unscathed minus the effects of fallout.

Yankovic270 18:30, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

How do you explain their existence today in TTL? I can't see it, but like Jnjaycpa and New Haven/Yale, I'm willing to hear out any and all proposals. BrianD 00:18, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

My edits
Alright so I put some work on this article just to get it started. I pretty much just used canon material, but I do have 3 questions regarding the canon material I used:


 * Blue Ridge was supposed to a have a referendum on either independence or union with East Tennesse/Virginia in March. What happened with that?
 * Elizabeth City and Blue Ridge were supposed to meet last December, again what happened there?
 * What is the reaction from Blue Ridge, Piedmont and East Tennesse about the restoration of the US out west?

That is pretty much what I got for now. I am going to leave further expansion of this article to people who know more about this state than I do. Mitro 19:56, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Mitro, thanks for getting the article started. I would have done so myself, but didn't have access to a computer, and Saturdays are not quite the best time for me to work on DD-related stuff.

1. The Blue Ridge/East Tennessee union fizzled out. They're both content to be independent, though working together in any number of ways. If there's going to be any sort of union, it's as part of an Alliance of Appalachian States with Piedmont (that is South's idea, you'll need to ask him as to how that is going to progress. One of those things that got put on the back burner for more pressing issues)

2. Elizabeth City is getting aid and assistance from Blue Ridge, but as they are both on opposite ends of the state, it's not quite practical (yet) to pull Elizabeth City into Blue Ridge proper.

3. Don't know about Piedmont (again, ask South). East Tennessee and Blue Ridge have developed their own identity and are taking a wait and see attitude. Right now, they are more likely to do the Appalachian States thing, or join the Dixie Alliance if that were to fall through. The only way both would join the provisional US is if everyone else in the region did the same thing.BrianD 20:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to thank Mitro for getting this article started I would like to do something with Elizabeth city --Owen1983 12:44, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Owen, you have already been told you cannot adopt this. Let it be.

Lordganon 12:56, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Owen, ITS NOT YOURS ! Please, leave it to an American or a Canadian who all have at least a microscopically basic knowledge of the place! That would be like me trying to list the age of everyone from Derbyshire when I have no British ancestry! A Southerner like South would know the best, Fx would know a bit, Brian would too, and I lived there for a while so I would too. Even Lordganon, who's Canadian, you must know at least a little tiny bit about the state, right? But you, Owen? You probably thought it was an island or one of Manchester's colonies. Arstarpool 19:17, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

infoplease
as i checked the article I noticed this Its a good site but anything after 1983 things are going to be radically different but its a good site though--Owen1983 16:46, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Owen, what are you talking about? Mitro 17:02, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Owen, please dont comment on this talk page any more. Go away. Arstarpool 20:00, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Arstar, relax. Owen comments, while confusing, do not require uncivil comments in return. Mitro 20:27, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

East-West Highway
In "planning a highway, the best bet is to use the existing highways and roads as the foundation. Many of the highways may be in pretty good shape due to very little traffic on them over the course of 25 years or so. Kudzu and grass, etc., would for sure encroach upon the pavement, even breaking it up in many places. However, a whole new road would not be necessary. Resurfacing will do the trick. US Highway 25 out of Greenville would be the connector to Asheville. --SouthWriter 20:41, March 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Assume that work on the highway is ongoing. BrianD 21:14, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Martinsville and NASCAR
I mentioned this over on the Sports talk page, but the NASCAR Winston Cup was in Martinsville, VA (just across the state line) on Doomsday, and it'd be interesting to explore what went down there. I suppose it'd hinge on whether or not the race was over yet - 65,000 people finding out that World War III all at the same time? Mass hysteria. If it happened after the race when many fans had already gone home, a completely different scenario. (And let's face it, a Martinsville survivor colony, ruled over by King Richard Petty? Outstanding.) -hx 15:12, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Martinsville/Danville

Given the previous single mention of Danville on the Virginia page (that I missed when making up the list of recently discovered survivor communities), it looks like we need to remove the mention of Martinsville and Danville. Not only would they be known to the Virginians (and to the Blue Ridge scouts), they would be part of that country.BrianD 18:12, April 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Technically, Danville is only listed as among "other cities." We can only guess why Yank would have chosen this town among the cities of Virginia. Based on his dealing with Lynchburg, though, I'd say he would definitely claim the area (heck, he was claiming parts of NC at one time!). Anyway, it does not change the fact that IF there is resistance, it may be enough that the military of Virgina might have just proclaimed the place part of the new Virginia and left it at that.


 * Being historically Virginians, Henry county residents would most likely have accepted oversight of the new government as long as it wasn't overbearing. However, being proud Americans as these country folk msot certainly were, anti-American rhetoric from a military dictatorship would not have gone over very well. I guess it all depends on how hard Yank wants to "fight" for rural counties like this one. SouthWriter 18:46, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Craven County
I know that Havelock was nuked but do you think there is any chance that there could be a survivor community in Craven County? Alexanders 02:22, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

No. It's the site of a nuclear detonation. Go from there. Lordganon 10:26, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Please use the "Add Topic" button; it creates a new section. Anyway, you can actually postulate some surviving communities inland from Havelock, though probably not much of an organized "nation" of any sort. Havelock is near the coast and the nuke that took the base out would have destroyed everything within about 10 miles, tops. However, the Croatan National Forest would be ablaze with no one to put it out. This would threaten towns all the way to New Bern and perhaps further. The peninsular would be uninhabitable and the towns in the interior would most likely evacuate north into what would become be struggling nation-state of Inner Banks. SouthWriter 13:43, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Greenville
Can I make Greenville into a third large state in North Carolina? note I want it to be a Communist Democracy, a nation that has split all ties with the Pre-Doomsday World creating an entierly new culture and calender Alexanders 02:41, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

[Sorry to break in] In a word, nope. I'm sorry Alex, but you live in eastern NC and you know these people aren't about to become Communists. As far as I can tell, the county voted for McCain in 2008. The state as far as I can see has been Republican in most presidential elections since Reagan in OTL. It is nonsensical to think that they would turn into a communist state - totally turning everything topsy-turvy. Though the Greenville Metro area is large, it does not rate as a "large state" within NC. From the map, in fact, it seems to be part of the Inner Banks, thus making it off limits.

Work on building up the Outer Banks area, reaching out, but not 'taking over' surrounding areas. Work with GB, Brian and myself to make a better NC, not a place so different just for difference sake. Another start up is the "Kerr Republic" by CrimsonAssassin. Check it out and offer ideas to him. That area is a bit more unsettled according to what is up right now. SouthWriter 03:44, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Why on earth would those people turn Communist, after everything they've been through since Doomsday, and especially given the Soviets started the exchange in the first place? BrianD 03:01, June 10, 2011 (UTC) BrianD 03:01, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Well... think about it reason would go completely out the window in this anarchist chaotic world, anything could happen. Perhaps senior members in the community would try to create a christian theocracy, the town filled with thosuands of free-thinking college sudents might overthrow that theocracy Alexanders 03:15, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Yes- but I think you may be out of touch of what may be so called "reality" of how a total nuclear war would affect a person's way of looking at things and how they cope with existence- for the few that could cope at all. And as for the 2008 voting records most of the kids voted for Obama but the collage kids are not the only part of the community who's to say what they would do, after losing their before college lives Alexanders 03:51, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1980's NC college student rebellion? I don't think so. The county voted Republican even in 2008 when the state went Democratic. We are trying to work with reality here, aren't we? SouthWriter 03:44, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

We are all talking an entierly new world here.

Southwriter you do have some good points...

But still.... you are forgetting, Collaspe of Civilvization Would be a Total Game Changer and I didnt say everyone would support it, there would be many aganist it and they would flee. But whose to say that a few radicals could not make a new state?

Alexanders 04:16, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

That's not realistic at all, Alex. There is no way that a communist regime like that is possible, in the least.

This is a place where communists are abused, laughed at, and frowned upon, among other things - there is no way that students would do it, or the community would let them.

And, college students are not socialist in all cases, or all that often. And even if they are, there is a massive difference between socialist and communist.

There are many universities and colleges that are conservative leaning, especially in the south. This one? It's pretty obvious the way it leans - one must only look at the election results to show that. If they leaned the other way, it'd be obvious. That county has only not gone Republican, or to George Wallace, twice since LBJ in 1968, and that was 1976, and not by much, along with 1992, and that is because of the massive vote-splitting done by Perot, and even that ended up being not a democratic majority, but a plurality.

So no, it's impossible.

Lordganon 06:35, June 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think most talk about our own political spectrum is quite silly, given that, as Alex says, it's a very different world out there.
 * But not communist, no. You don't suddenly start imitating the people who (1) you were raised to despise, and (2) actually killed lots of people you know. I'll add a (3): The Randomian Soviet Socialist Republic is sort of a cliche. Do you just want a very "different"-feeling state? You can create an original ideology not seen in OTL. Do you want a collectivist society without private property? You can certainly do that, but nothing in the US is going to have any of the external forms of communism, and it's going to develop in a way that reflects local culture circumstances. Do you want something that uses hammers and sickles and so forth? There are probably some sociopathic gangs in the America of 1983DD that use these symbols, in the same way that people in Christian societies have used devil imagery to convey the idea of rebels against everything. Benkarnell 07:14, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * What Benkarnell pointed above was something I was more leaning to..., because the region dose frown at Communism, I don't see why a unique most isolated socitely was formed. Alexanders 14:10, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then really, the burden of proof is on you, so to speak, to show how such a society developed. It's not going to be owing to some kind of left-wing ideology, which has no basis in this region. (It is important to note, though, that any north american city-state is going to have large numbers of people from relatively far away, because of the fracturing of society and the waves of refugees in every direction.) Benkarnell 14:39, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then really, the burden of proof is on you, so to speak, to show how such a society developed. It's not going to be owing to some kind of left-wing ideology, which has no basis in this region. (It is important to note, though, that any north american city-state is going to have large numbers of people from relatively far away, because of the fracturing of society and the waves of refugees in every direction.) Benkarnell 14:39, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jordan
I've been wondering about what may have happened to him on Doomsday because at the time, Michael Jordan was a student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where he also played for the university's basketball team. and since nearby Durham has been declared abandoned i've thought of two possibilities for MJ, either he left the university and Chapel Hill along with everyone else due to all the violence, chaos and nuclear fallout or he stayed on the campus in a way similar to Karen Hargreaves' experience at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, KS.

either way i'm assuming that Michael probably had to put survival and family (if they survived Doomsday that is) over his basketball ambitions in order to survive in his new surroundings, therefore his life may have turned out quite differently from OTL if he managed to live up to present day.

although i'm still having a hard time trying to figure out where exactly Michael Jordan was on Doomsday because either he may have been somewhere else because he was playing for his university's team or maybe he was still on the campus when the bombs fell, but like i said i don't know exactly for sure.

~anon

No one who remained at the Uni would be alive. Given the differences between this area and Lawrence - which had a clear path to safety - he would not make it out either.

Between home games, classes, and it being his residence, it is more than likely that he was there at the time. Going on that information, we must assume his death. As we say here, when in doubt, assume their death. Here, there is some doubt, but given the situation in Durham that is described, we have to assume the worst. Simply put, he's dead.

Lordganon 04:30, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

There is no 'rule' to assume the worst in a town that was merely 'abandoned due to violence.' You cannot assume, even, that the University would be over-run and destroyed by the mobs (and thus everyone 'dies'). The principle is not to assume someone is dead in any old place, but only to assume they are dead in a nuked city.

As for where he was on doomsday, though, it is probably safe to say that he was on campus. School had just begun, and basketball season was still a ways off. It would be interesting, I suppose, for someone to write an account of the situation in Chapel Hill on doomsday. Brian wrote Durham to be abandoned, but did not say anything about Chapel Hill. I am not sure if the exploratory teams would have went through that town at the time, so perhaps there is a way which a small survivor town could have existed in Chapel Hill. It could not be big, though, or it would have been spotted on fly-overs, or have made contact with other survivor states before that. SouthWriter 15:45, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Given the distance between the Hill and Durham, it must be assumed that the same thing occurred there. It would have gotten the radiation even worse than it, too. Lordganon 17:03, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

A closer look at the map confirms that Chapel Hill (where'd you get that 'the Hill'?) is indeed a suburb of Durham and would have suffered whatever happened in Durham (which is unknown except for the vague 'abandoned due to violence ...' ). Athletes such as Jordan may have actually fared well in whatever evacuation succeeded in getting away. The radiation that either the city or the suburbs got would be about the same, though the nearest nuke was in Raleigh about twenty miles southeast with prevailing winds taking its fallout (air bursts don't create much fallout) away from the area. The blast could have done done damage to the outskirts of Durham, depending on the strength. Any fallout from the blast over Greensboro, some forty miles west, would have blown north of Durham.

In short, chaos would have reigned and canon has it that the city of Durham was abandoned. We can assume that the university town suffered the same fate, but we cannot assume the death of everyone there. Athletes such as Jordan would have fared better than most and may have survived. It is, however, up to an editor to demonstrate a scenario by which such would survive (see, for example, Auburn where two star athletes play pivotal roles). --SouthWriter 19:18, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Fort Fisher
I read on the internet that Fort Fisher is an old Confederate fort that hasn’t been in use since 1865. Thus, I doubt the Soviets would nuke it. To my knowledge the only potential target in the same area as Fort Fisher is the town of Wilmington, since it is the home port of the USCGC Diligence. However, the USCGC Diligence is only a medium endurance cutter, so Wilmington would probably only be a minor target. So Wilmington may be the capital of a survivor state. I would call it the Republic of Cape Fear. ~Gold

Until 1988, there was an air force base at that site, otl. Add the port/city of Wilimington, and it's a big fat target. Lordganon 01:15, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Havelock, NC
What is the possible survival percentage of people living in Havelock, NC and USMC Air Station Cherry Point? Both are located together. Not sure what the population level was due to finding only 21st OTL which is around 22,000. I happen to be living in the area at the time and want to be able to calculate the possiblity my counterpart from that world might have survived which I know is highly unlikely. Experiment632 (talk) 01:12, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

odds don't look to good there Experiment632. it would depent on how close to ground zero(s) and if shelter was taken in time.Wingman1 (talk) 07:42, July 28, 2012 (UTC)