User talk:Buk5

regarding no "9/11" timeline
future history (anything beyond the present date) is beyond the scope of this wiki. --Marcpasquin 18:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * While it's interesting to postulate what will happen if events after our time go different, that is no longer Alternate History, because for it to be history, it must be in the writer's past. This is why Heinlein's future history would not be considered Alternate History now, because when he wrote it, it was in his future.


 * For that same reason, we can't accept future histories here. It's not because we don't like them, or don't read them, or any such thing. Rather, they don't fall within the scope of our wiki.


 * The wikis for Fiction or Constructed Worlds would be a more appropriate home to future histories. I appreciate your interest in contributing, but please keep it in the scope.


 * Thanks.

Louisiannan 22:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

template & maps
for the maps, the easiest ways to do one is probably to take a blank map (look on wikipedia) and make the changes you want. for the templates, what did you need ? --Marcpasquin 15:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Heute Europa &c
First of all, Buk, I appreciate your gusto. Please don't let this comment and the reaction of Das Taub disinterest you from posting here. Remember that some timelines are open to interaction, others are not. Those that are open for others to contribute are generally marked so. Please keep that in mind, and remember, we can make suggestions, but at the same time, reflect other's efforts. Louisiannan 22:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Buk5 you musn't add entries to the articles for timelines that don't say "This is an open timeline" at the top. People get annoyed.--TEAKAY 16:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

cooperation
thank you for the invitation but this isn't realy a place or era I'm too familiar with. you should go ahead and make it yourself and I'll see if I can contribute something.--Marcpasquin 15:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Contributing
Buk5, aren't you full of ideas! It's always good to have someone with such a gusto come in to the wiki. One thing to help before you accidentally step on toes; remember to check in with the owners of the timelines before you start contributing. As for Mosley's Britain, I think that the original contributor may have gone "inactive" so you might be able to adopt the timeline or contribute to it, but I would leave a message on his/her user page before you spend too much energy on it. Louisiannan 14:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Mosley's Britain
This isn't a timeline I'm interested in contributing to. --Marcpasquin 15:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Heute Europa
I think Das Taub has made it clear that he has a certain outlook as to how he wants his timeline to evolve. Maybe from now on instead of changing the timeline page you could instead make proposals on the talk page first ? --Marcpasquin 15:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

"Like this"
I found Like this today. The name isn't very helpful - maybe you can rename it to something better?--Max Sinister 20:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Hitler is an American
what kind of help do you need ? --Marcpasquin 14:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

hello curiosity
sorry but what is that "yo." in your user page--Fero 07:06, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

a question how this must say "not destiny" or "no destiny"? is this diferent? i see sow many Althis tituled "No..." and i hava a idea for one more--Fero 18:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

naming convention
Remember to name your page as: "name of page (name of timeline)".--Marcpasquin 14:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

change name Большое Россия
imposible to remember or write in my english spanish keyboard, ¿U ar from Russia? U speak russian? i wish a traduction to romaniced characteres, cirilic alphabet is not.... understood here, test "Nikolái" russian word in occidental write way, alt historis about japan here are not tituled in kanjis, but they are still japanes "Nipon" is a japanese word in occidental alphabet--Fero 19:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Altwho
Yes it is and will be removed.--Marcpasquin 13:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Derivative Work
It is defined as anything based on a previously published work be it characters, plotline or terminology.--Marcpasquin 14:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Why do you ask if Hitler is an American---Version 1 would be a derivative work ? did you reuse fictional characters or events from a published story ?--Marcpasquin 18:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Nein
Hello, i created that AltHis, i feel is a good and not used idea, is open to your (and everybody) colaboration. it say '''"In 1921 promising German theoretical physicist Albert Einstein dies in his first visit to the USA. He never makes contact with Ernest Rutherford or Leó Szilárd and the Manhattan Project never born. A world without useful atomic energy or Nuclear Bomb, a world without the Person of the Century."  a ending WW2 W/o nagasaki and hiroshima, a cold war w/o nuclear develovmen or a hot war, a energy real and early problem w/o nuclear energy and reactors, a world were france or UK are simil power like Spain because any nation have atomic power, a world without Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD), enjoy us and add your ideas, we will have fun, dont worry This is an open timeline''' --Fero 05:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: Earth Federation
You know, I really don't see myself getting back to the Earth Federation timeline anytime in the near future. I haven't touched it for months, so feel free to add stuff.

As for the idea that the Earth Federation government would immediately become tyrranical, that doesn't strike me as plausible. First, the non-Communists were already keeping the Communist members in check. Second, part of the deal was that the US would be allowed to break itself up into its individual states and territories, thereby making the states that went on to join the Earth Federation more influential than they would be if they had stayed united.

I think things would eventually go sour, but I think it would more likely be because of individual members becoming dissatisfied with the Earth Federation.

Daedalus Georgios 21:10, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Normans
Hi Buk5,

Your "Japanese Normans" timeline has been nominated for deletion because it hardly contains any actual content, if you are still interested in writing this AltHist you are given four weeks time to let us know and to start writing on, otherwise it will be deleted.--Max Sinister 15:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Have a look
is "vampire" based on any work you know of ? If yes, which one ? --Marcpasquin 18:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

DS
I have some comments and ideas that I could use your opinion on. - Realismadder 20:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

No FDR
Yeh sure ill be right on it for the map does germany control all of Africa and the carribean Thanks ,but hey you came up with it btw should it be just Pre ww3 or pre the United States Of The Americas

OK kl by the way what were France Britain Italy and the balkans doing during WW3 neutral or with the Coalition / Axis

Hey. i was going to do the no Fdr castro can i ask is he still a socialist and can we possibly keep Che Guevara alive .k ill try

That link didnt work can you just tell me where i went wrong

A7X
do you like Avenged Sevenfold by the way

Chinese Meiji
Hello fellow althistorian. I appreciate your interest in my Chinese Meiji universe and I am happy to have collaborators in this projects. However, your recent edits were not in keeping with my original vision, which it is my fault for not having made clear.

Here's what I had in mind for the 20th century onward in terms of a "radically different world order", and maybe we can discuss:


 * Germany wins the Great War (sorta) and thus no Hitler later on. The future of a German-dominated Europe is still unclear to me, maybe you can help me think of some ideas.
 * Russia does not fall to Communism, Kerensky's government prevails.
 * During the Great War, China sends Liang of Arabia to collaborate with the Arabs to revolt against the Ottomans. They succeed, resulting in a radically different, and more stable (than the real world) Middle East with borders defined along ethnic lines and with an independent Kurdistan.
 * During the Great War, much fighting happens in Africa and African leaders emerge.
 * After the Great War, Africans are disillusioned with the European order and start a massive decolonization movement 1920-1950, resulting in a much different Africa than it is today.
 * And America, one of the largest industrial powers in the world, perhaps gets into a cold war with China...

You have some interesting suggestions. Beyond Chiang's dictatorship much is still uncertain and help is certainly appreciated there. The only definite vision beyond that point is that China by 1960s or 70s should be a fully functioning democracy, much like how in OTL Taiwan used to be a dictatorship but then became a prosperous democracy. And the possibilities:
 * The stab in the back legend is present in China rather than Germany (it was Germany who made a separate peace, abandoning China). Hitler's rise in OTL i believe can be attributed to the conditions of postwar Germany, which is an era of desperation. If Germany in ATL concludes a good settlement without war guilt, reparations, or territorial loss, then i doubt fascism will take root. It will even be satisfied with European hegemony because its traditional rival France is crushed.
 * However a rising Germany/Europe is certainly a strong possibility. I don't know how that would look like. It is very possible for Germany to become the #1 industrial power in the world by the 30s and 40s
 * The OTL Middle East problems I attribute to the Allied Powers after WWI carving up the area as mandates. For example, Iraq’s borders are completely arbitrary and includes a hodgepodge of Sunni, Shiite, Kurds, etc. Recipe for instability, which leads to fundamentalism and terrorism. What if the Middle East wasn’t carved up among Europe? What if democratic, secular republics develop like Turkey? All of the 20th century OTL has known an oil-rich, unstable Middle East which is very important for geopolitics. I do not know what a different Middle East would mean for the world. Perhaps, like you said, world geopolitics would shift focus to….
 * Africa. In OTL it is very much neglected by the developed world after decolonization when compared to the Middle East. Perhaps this can be the new focus of the world. It’s got oil too, in some places. Look at what China’s doing now IRL in Africa. In my universe Africa is still very unclear.
 * VERY unclear: Japan. An American-backed coup installed an anti-China government in the War, but then what? Will Japan feel gypped of spoils from the war and like Italy in OTL, go fascist? Will it go democratic? Will it become the great economic power it is today in IRL?

Moskatoe 17:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

If you want to work together, that's great -- the 20th century part of the universe is woefully incomplete. Only the parts from the Great War and before is really set. Moskatoe 17:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Can do about Kornilov. Have you any ideas yet that I might be able to build out of? Or are we starting from scratch?

About Chinese Meiji: if you read the full articles about the history, you will see how Japan fought Spain and took the Philippines (with Chinese help). By the Great War, it is still under joint Chinese-Japanese occupation. And then I neglected the Philippines. I don't know what happens afterward. I can only imagine something complicated, since Japan switched sides during the war. I also imagine prior to the Great War the Philippines attempt one or more uprisings (just like how Emilio Aguinaldo did a guerrilla war against the American occupation in OTL). Post-war, I have no ideas yet. Maybe it becomes an American protectorate and it keeps clamoring for independence. About French Indochina I have no ideas about it yet. During the War, I China attacked it because China was at war with France. Postwar I have no ideas for it yet. Will India continue its path to decolonization in OTL? Similar uncertainty with Indonesia. Although during the war, Germany occupied Holland so either the Dutch Indonesia remained autonomous as a government in exile or surrendered to Germany/China. Moskatoe 17:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting addition of plebiscites to reunify China. The only problem I see with that is that Tibet, Turkestan, and Mongolia are not ethnically Chinese (unlike Austria or the Sudetenland for Germany). I doubt either of them would voluntarily want to give up their independence. What I can see, however, is there being a plebiscite in one of those places but the results are rigged to favor the Chinese...adds more drama to the story...Moskatoe 02:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

The United States does not join the League of Nations, for the same reason it did not join in OTL. America is traditionally wary of "entangling alliances" and believes that being dragged into a war due to the League is undemocratic, since only Congress can decide on war. As for getting cozy with China, that is certainly possible. Remember, in OTL both Japan and Italy were ostracized from the League...and they certainly did not get cozy with America. I would imagine a Sino-American cooperation to be in the form of economics. China is a huge market and the golden grail of American business in OTL for the past 200 years. I don't think it will be any different ATL. Also: everything is complex and interconnected, it is impossible to talk of Sino-American relations without discussing Japan. In Chinese Meiji, USA and Japan are traditional rivals for Pacific power. Japan also has strong economic ties with China (see this). Figuring out what the post-Great War Japan is like (which I haven’t yet, maybe you could help with this) will effect both the trajectories of American and Chinese history from the 1920s onwards. Sino-German relations will also be important. Germany had helped China a great deal during its modernization phase. Will there be an anti-German sentiment of the stab in the back legend postwar?Moskatoe 15:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Interesting proposition with the Latin American involvement. I am unclear -- do you wish to set up a new alternative history based on that idea, or are you suggesting we attach it the the current Chinese Meiji one? It would certainly make the Chinese Meiji more interesting and complex. Possible implications: Moskatoe 23:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Latin America loses its status as a third world area
 * May cause serious revisions in American Western Hemisphere foreign policy doctrine (Monroe Doctrine, Roosevelt Corollary, etc may be shaken.)
 * May alter the geopolitical landscape of the Pacific Rim.
 * What of Latin American conflicts that happen in OTL, how will they be translated to ATL?
 * War of the Pacific
 * Chincha Islands War
 * Chaco War
 * War of the Triple Alliance
 * Ecuadorian-Peruvian War

Kornilovshina
In Kornilovshina's description of the Great War, it doesnt really explain how the Russians are able to continue the war when in OTL by that time their army is proven to be ineffectual and there was widespread weapons and munitions shortages (Russian troops were being sent to the front line without rifles). Perhaps USA begins massive shipments of weapons and aid to Russia through Murmansk, or through a captured Istanbul. Russia could have been ignited into a patriotic fervor by the revolution and Russian citizens could start supporting the war against the evil German occupiers in droves, like the patriotic/military spirit of 1792 France. What do you think? Moskatoe 02:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

American Hitler maps
Sure, I can make a world map for you. I'm indescribably busy for the next week (classes are beginning), but after that, I'd love to. I'll be mostly plundering two Wikipedia world maps: and. Maybe also this one from. Benkarnell 16:56, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Image:World-Hitler-USA-v1.PNG is uploaded and added to the page. Let me know if any changes need to be made.  There was some contradictory info about Mexico (did the US annex all or part of it?), and I took a few liberties of my own: I asumed that China was unable to re-conquer Tibet and that Greenland was awarded to neutral Iceland rather than to Germany or the US.  I allowed France to keep Guyana and Madagascar, since I didn't see anytthing written that France lost these territories.  Benkarnell 17:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to say that it looks very good, although North Mexico is annexed, and the southern part is part of the Carribean Alliance. Tibet was not reclaimed by china and remains neutral in the cold war..

Some improvements i recommend:

1. Give Brazil its own colour as well as Iran, the East Asian Co prosperity Sphere and the USSR. They also play a role in the cold war.

2. Iran annexes all of the Middle East save Egypt and Turkey (which remains a flashpoint in this three-way cold war).

3. France loses French Guyana.

4. Greenland and Iceland are neutral ATL.

Thank you for the map, and i hope my suggestions will improve it. Buk5 17:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Latin American Meiji
Great concept... Are you proposing we work on this together? Sorry, I wasn't too clear about your intentions. Moskatoe 18:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)