Talk:Axis vs Allies:Reloaded(Map Game)/Archive 1

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict.


 * At the war: 5


 * Next to the war: 4


 * Close to the war: 3


 * Far from the war: 2


 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1


 * Defender’s advantage: 2


 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3


 * Island: 4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3


 * Side with greater population: 3


 * Side with greater industry: 3


 * "Big Cheese" Advantage (USA, Russia, UK, France for now): 3

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10


 * Religious: 7


 * Social/moral: 6


 * Political: 5


 * Economical: 3

Chance

 * Random.org

Stability

 * +1 point for every 100 stability point if under 1000
 * +1 for every 300 if over 1000.

Alliances

 * Every ally: 2

Stability Algorithm
(Sorry of this is rather a copy from Principia Moderni) Each nation will have stability points. Stability points will give you bonus points in war, extra stability, more expansion, and less chance of revolt.

Pluses to Stability
economic power =
 * urbanization (150 highly urbanized/industrial, 100 somewhat urbanized/commercial, 50 slightly urbanized/nodal, 0 rural society).
 * resources (50 precious metals, 100 widespread fertile soil, 50 some partly fertile soil, 50 important metals, e.g. iron, copper .etc)
 * technology (350 Nuclear power, 300 fossil fuels, 200 radio )

Stability = Regular stabilty points +
 * -20 every turn (-30 if stability lower than 500)


 * Territory (4: USA, China, Russia, Canada, India, Australia, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil)


 * Stability begins at the nation’s stability the last round


 * Change of government resets stability automatically to 750.

A country collapses when stability reaches below 300. The player must at that point create a new government or collapse completely into civil disarray.

Penalties to stability:

 * Each non-improvement turn= -20


 * Wars lasting more than 5 years= -20


 * Nearby unrest= -10
 * Minor invasion= -50 (border skirmish)
 * Major invasion= -100 (15% of territory lost or one major city captured)
 * -50 every inactive turn (not including Sundays)


 * Every day= -100


 * Stability less than 1000= -100
 * Transition of power: -50 every day of the transition
 * Colony larger than Guyana after 1980: -100 every day.
 * Nuke program every day: -250

Benefits to stability:

 * War won in less than 5 years= +50
 * Every alliance= +10
 * Stability greater than 1500 for the last 25 years= +150
 * Economic improvement= +25
 * Religious/moral revival= +30
 * Infrastructure= +25
 * War= +10
 * Military development/expansion= +20
 * New technological breakthrough: +250

Decolonization
One problem I noticed with the last game was that there was no decolonization or nationalist movements at all. In order to make it realistic, these should exist. LurkerLordB 00:28, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

You're right, I'll set it up. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:39, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Moderator
I assumed that anyone interested in the position would sign the thing, and if they were approved they would become a real mod, right? LurkerLordB 01:03, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:43, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

If we decide to lay down the banhammer, which I can honestly see in the future, what should the process be/who should it be carried out by? CrimsonAssassin 02:28, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I guess it could be by moderator vote. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 02:34, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Other Implausibilities That Must Be Eliminated
I am listing some implausibilities from the last Axis vs Allies Game that would hopefull be eliminated:
 * In AvAr, many colonial rebellions were supressed in one move
 * Many nations united peacefully in one move
 * Baltika, one of the small nations in AvAr, managed to take over much of Africa is just a few turns
 * USSR once made English its official language instead of Russian
 * Italy did little exsept moan at Hindustan after anexing Somalia and did a few treatys with Yugoslavia befor stoming out in the 1960's. He rairly did anything and was a compleate and utter waste of map-space!


 * What was the BSMPG in Europe or the Mubaguri-Kahoolie Repubic in Australia suposed to be?


 * A space shuttel went up in 1958!


 * Mongolia developed an atomic bomb for the USSR in the 1950's


 * Baltica's user anoyed and nagged Egypt's user so much he retiered and gave Baltica his nation.


 * Cuba's antics in Mexico nd Venezuela's antics in Ruthina were silly and OTT.

Hopefully, from what you read here, we can hopefully eliminated problems caused by these. RandomWriterGuy 22:46, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * France lost Vietnam and Central Africa in the 1950's. The USSR gave Frech Saharah (roughly OTL Mali, Niger and Maruitania indipendence after anexation in the 1960's, Egypt rebeled agaist the UK in the 1980's and Katanga rebeled in variose parts of souther DRC only to see the risings crushed in 1 turn. Colonialisum continued unabashed.

Perhaps we should make it a rule that after 1980, no colonies larger than French Guyana. LurkerLordB 23:02, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and another problem was people starting a nuke program the turn after the first person got it. They should at least have a handicap or something. And remember, it is a large resource sap to develop nukes. Azecreth 02:55, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'll make it so that making nukes takes away HUGELY from your Stability points. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 03:01, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

What I really had wanted with Cuba was to establish a succesful communist government in Mexico and the USSR. I wanted to peacefully annex Mexico sometime in the '50s or '60s, but I was afraid Venezuela would try to claim Mexico. What I would like to point out is that the USA, in the first two games, went to war much more often than OTL. Participating in other people's wars is not only very costly and risky, but you'd see the general population becoming very unhappy very quickly. I'm not saying 'don't participate in WWII', I'm saying 'Don't participate in other nation's wars too much'. CrimsonAssassin 23:43, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and what was all that retconted stuff on the colapse of the USSR after a chemical war in the early 1950's that lead to the 'Old Russian Republic', 'Democratic Siberian Federation', 'Urals SSR' and 'Tomskestan' abodut? AKA Billy.82.11.82.70 03:05, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Dopy, that's what.213.81.112.104 04:08, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Map
The map is a little incorrect. British India, Sudan, Egypt, and Canada are to be part of the British Empire. RandomWriterGuy 22:49, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Canada and Austrialia and New Zealand were commonwealth, but they were technically independent. Sudan was part of British Empire, but Egypt was independent by this time actually. LurkerLordB 23:03, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but shouldn't Puerto Rico be part of the US, it was cedded to the US by Spain in 1898. Enclavehunter 23:45, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I know this is kind of stupid, but can I have orange for my nation's color? Or at least a darker purple? The color I have now is really alarming. CrimsonAssassin 18:48, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'll change it when I have the chance. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I believe that Congo or the democratic republic of congo or Zaire or whatever you want to call it was belgian, and lybia was italian. -Lx (leave me a message) 04:04, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Belgium Congo currently know as democratic republic of congo was Belgium territory from 1908 to 1960. Draycos

Could you show which part of China is controlled by Communists, which paart by China, and that East Turkestan or western China was controlled by an independant warlord? Lucky777 v2

Signing up
How do you sign up? if I can I would like to be Greece.Wegscuba 22:57, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Simply add Greece to the section "Europe", then sign your name after it. Welcome to the game! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:07, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Australasian Nations
There seems to be no option to play as Australiasian nations like Australia and new Zealand. Can we play as one of them? Or another nation (in existence at the time) that is not in the list? Callumthered 03:56, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Just add "New Zealand" to the Oceania section, and you're good to go! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Weren't New Zealand and Australia owned by Britain? LurkerLordB 22:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

They were part of the commonwealth, but were technically independent. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:21, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Not technically, but totally independent. Like today. Callumthered 00:07, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to sound nitpicky, but Papua New Guinea was part of Australia before and during WWII. South-East NG was Australian since Queensland colonised it before federation in the late 1800s, and North-East NG was a League of Nations mandate given to Australia upon the defeat of Germany, the previous colonial posessor. Callumthered 08:45, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

K, Fixed. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:48, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Some Announcements
First, check the Nation Page. Your stability, as well as alliances, are recorded there.

Everyone starts with zero alliances. Start making some when the game starts on Monday the 16th.

Thanks to everyone for joining.

PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:05, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Will you be putting me in the nations page, or should I add myself? Azecreth 20:19, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still not on the nation page. Do you want me to add myself? And maybe we should have a dedicated mod who does only stability or something. Azecreth 15:13, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Im not on the nations page either. Will I add myself?Whitesight 00:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Querie
How do you get the flags to appear like they do in the list of nations? Callumthered 00:29, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Lotta Nations
Well, it looks like so many people are joining the game. I believe this has become very popular so quickly! But, don't forget about my contributions! After all, I did sponser the game by putting it in the Map Games page. RandomWriterGuy 20:06, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Starting
When exactly is this Map Game set to start, anyway? Ownerzmcown 22:40, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Now, lol. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:00, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

South Africa
South Africa became had technicley indipendent in 1927. This formaly became law on the sineing of the 1931 Westmister Statute [].86.29.68.142 01:32, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Map
I will take care of all mistakes on the map, simply state them in the talk page. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:02, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Start
We start now! We start now because I thought if I wait until Monday, people might get impatient, and we already have a crapload of people. I never thought it would get so popular so quickly! Anyways, have fun! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:02, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Starting?
We starting now? RandomWriterGuy 22:42, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:00, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

14th rule???
how about instead of that rule abput how we cant have 13 rules how about just put that:being a moderator/gaining moderator status does not give you immunity from getting banned or getting called on for BS/implausibility?-Lx (leave me a message)

How about the 14th rule be '''You must sign your posts on the talk page'? ''CrimsonAssassin 23:19, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

woops, forgot to sign, -Lx (leave me a message) 23:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Crimson's suggestion 400%. (but Lx's is good too, if we want a 15th rule). LurkerLordB 01:22, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should make it a rule that you have to edit in source mode, not visual, as to not create the horrible code problem which is making it impossible to edit the turn on its own. LurkerLordB 23:03, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

code and formating problems...
ok ,theres something very much wrong with the code and formating. whenever I try to fix the problems, it just makes them worse, i try to fix the format, but everything just blows up...the paragraphing just becomes bd...is theri something wrong, or do we have to go to source or even fix the meta becasue there is somehting seriously worng with thecode in the 1933.5 year.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:04, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Everyone just needs to only edit in source mode from now one, try fixing it in source mode without going back to main mode. LurkerLordB 23:09, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

thats what i'm trying to do right now but somebody just edited...(sigh)...i'll just put a message in the announcements telling people not to edit and use and for edits instead of stars so everyone is using the same form, because that realy throws the formating off...a lot!-Lx 23:15, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

The stars system is simpler to use, the and seems to be causing the problem. LurkerLordB 23:24, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think that its the use of stars taht causes problem, becasue it casues things like:


 * I edit this
 * NO tis my way is better!

li and ul arent as simple but much cleaner my edit started after Lurker's-Lx (leave me a message) 23:36, January 10, 2012 (UTC) I personally find that using the html coding ones in opposition to asterisks IS far more complicated, and html coding can cause more devastating changes to the pages than asterisk problems, which can be solved with a quick edit in Visual mode. Fed (talk) 23:53, January 10, 2012 (UTC) Ok, I fixed this code, but then Australia edited it in visual, and everything went to hell. what part of "no editing 1933.5 in visual dont people understand? Anyways, i'm not fixing it again...it just ate 40minutes of the time that could have been put to other uses. sory, but it will have to stay.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:28, January 11, 2012 (UTC) </li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

I'm making it a rule that you have to edit in source mode, other edits that cause code will be undone on sight, and if you repeatedly insert the code you'll get banned. LurkerLordB 01:27, January 11, 2012 (UTC)</li>*OK, from now on, edit in source, and edit in just the stars, as they are simpler and the code seems attached to the problem (as can be seen). Also, hopefully this will help the horrible spelling that is afflicting this game as well. LurkerLordB 01:39, January 11, 2012 (UTC)</li> == Question ==Is the Nation Page the diplomacy page? and do I need to add my nation to list and figure the my nation stability or will the moderator do it? DraycosNo, a moderator will do it for you. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:46, January 11, 2012 (UTC)</li>==Just wondering...==On the penalties to stablity, it says -50 every day. Is this cumlutive, and if so than can we change this because little countries will get screwed as we keep going.24.155.57.99 22:47, January 11, 2012 (UTC)It isn't cumulative, and it is -100 per day. And as for little nations being screwed, that's life. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:47, January 11, 2012 (UTC)Thanks. I knew they were going to get skrewed one way or another, but if it was cumulative we all would be in constant anarchy. Thanks for the infoTacoCopper 00:22, January 12, 2012 (UTC)As for little nations getting screwed why are more developed nations more stable? Mongolia doesn't even have agriculture at this point. 22:07 January 14, 2012 (UTC) {C</li><p style="margin-left: 40px">Because the more developed a nation is, most of the time they have high economies, health care, income levels, etc and that gives their citizens somthing to be proud of. For instance, people are proud of America having the world's biggest economy. Plus,citizens often get better services in extremely devevolped than they do in under developed. For instance, it's easier to get life saving surgery in Europe than it is in South America. So you see how much better off it is in more developed countries, why would people want to change governments. Thats why they are more stable. TacoCopper 23:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC) <p style="margin-left: 40px">China is the worlds biggest economy not America. They are currently facing unrest in Inner Mongolia Tibet and East Turkestan usually centered in Urban areas. Development has nothing to do with those things wealth and a government that is not corrupt does. Without these development creates slums pollution and unemployment. Many undeveloped nations are extremely stable like Mongolia Vietnam and Bhutan. Revolutions are usualy spawned by learned people in developed areas. This is true of the Freanch and Russian revolutions, the revolutions in British, Dutch, and Portuguese africa, the Arab spring, and most other revolts. Uneducated rural societies are much more willing to obey a seemingly distant and unimportant leader. <p style="margin-left: 40px">Not to go all pro-American or turn this into an debate, but America is the largest economy, with China being the 2nd and growing. Enclavehunter 02:01, January 16, 2012 (UTC) </li> <p style="margin-left: 40px">I don't feel like debating this either, so let me just say that a un-dev country will have less stablity than a big dev country and you can name all the stable un-dev countries you want I can name twice as many unstable un-developed countries.TacoCopper 03:23, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin-left: 40px">My mistake, China will not be biggest for four years. The reason I brought this up is because when the Soviet Union developed Mongolia, going from nomadic herding to farming and ranching and building more cities, the people hated it, the economy suffered, the enviroment was damaged, and crops failed due to poor conditions. I don't want to lose stability by making the same mistakes. As I said earlier stabillity is about wealth not development. North Korea is uran and developed but it is still a teriible place to live. So are the slums of many poor developing nations.

{C </li> {C </li> {C </li> {C </li> {C </li> {C </li> {C </li> {C </li> {C </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li>

Well, yes this is true. But the U.S was like this too when we were industrializing, but look at where we are at now. World's biggest economy, and most Western nations were like this too. Great Britain had Orphans in the streets who had to steal to survive, but now they have safety nets to help take care of them. Many countries have to go through extreme poverty and problems before things improve. Germany was destroyed by WWII, it was a devasted wasteland. But with the help of cash from the U.S they rebuilt, and now they have a large economy, and a Government that has safety nets. Think of the massive imports by the U.S from developing nations as Marshal Plans if that helps, and we are building them up. TacoCopper 01:59, January 17, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

I agree but not for ever single country.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

 Stability I need people to help me with stability. So mods, I want you guys to help me, and we'll be updating stability every year, or 2 turns. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 02:49, January 12, 2012 (UTC) Union I was wondering if I could create a large Moslem caliphate/empire/etc. It whould incorperate Afghanistan, Persia, Turkey, the Trucial States, and possibly Egypt. Bobalugee1940 16:39, January 14, 2012 (UTC) Anti-Semitism I know I'm not a mod or anything, but if I recall correctly, i didn't think that the Nazi concentration camps were open yet, and the world didn't even know they existed until the end of WW2Wegscuba 17:44, January 14, 2012 (UTC) I know. I am not using this aurguement when I criticize the Afganies. My nation is Poland, so I naturally would try to help the Jews since I have a large number of them in my borders. I don't know why others are trying to do anything about the Jews, since their is still a lot of Anti-Smitism out their. TacoCopper 18:17, January 14, 2012 (UTC) ***</li></li></li>== Austrio-Czechislovakian war =====Austrian Front=======Austria========Czechislovakia========Result=======Polish front=======Poland========Czechislovakia========Result=======Discussion===</li> {C</li> {C</li> {C</li> {C</li>== Brazil-USSR == You guys realize there won't actually be a war, since neither of us can reach the other. It will just be a lot of postering and funding of rebels. Oh, and thanks, since this gives me a good reason to declare the Estado Novo next turn. Azecreth 18:40, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Germany and Britain:
I, Germany, agreed to it, due to the fact that I said immeaditly, as in it would take an few years, but it would happen. Plus, I was going to kill Hilter off and his supporters, by an series of reforms. But, it if it's implauisble, I won't continue Enclavehunter 23:31, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Nations not in Nation page
I was just wondering if Mongolia could be added to the Nations Page. I recently became its ally, and would like to be able to see its stability, if you have time. Callumthered 04:11, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, I really need you guys to help me with the Stability. I can't be on every day, and so I've decided: a responsibility of being a mod is doing the stability. If you can't/won't, then you'll have to resign, I'm afraid. So, we're going to re-start stability in 1940. Plenty of time to get familiar with the formula. So once again, stability is now a responsibility, not an option. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:41, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

I know that your not looking more mods but I am willing to help where need. Draycos 02:16, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

It looks like East Turkestan will become a nation soon. It would be great if we got people to play as them and Turkey, who seems to be about to go to war with Greece and is supporting East Turkestan.

Weapon
The new Greek plane would be the best in the world for five years after it was created. I think it is important to remember what weapons our millitary have. I have an army mainly based on cavalry with bolt-action rifles. Sabres are still used as sidearms.

East Turkestan Rebellion
Chinese Attack:

Winner:
'''Rebels defeat the Chinese forces and push them into the mountains to the north and east. Losses amount to 3000 on the rebel side and 5000 on the Chinese side. A socialist governmant is set up in East Turkestan. China stops supporting the warlord. Rebels prepar to wipe out the remaining Chinese.'''

Discussion:
{C Rebel Attack:

Rebels
{C Winner:

Rebels will innevidably wipeout remainding Chinese forces as they have fewer troops and lack support from the local population and the Chinese governmant. The war will take place over the next two years. East Turkestan will also fight in Afghanistan and India during this time.

Result and Discussion
The Black Front and its allies defeat Nazis Germany.

Discussion
My first algorithm, please correct. Enclavehunter 00:54, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Belgian Front
Belgium

{C Total: 29

Netherlands

{C Total: 33

United Kingdom front
United Kingdom

{C Total: 29

Netherlands

{C Total: 35

Australia
{C Netherlands New Guinea

Combine Total

Discussion
{C Does any fighting go on between Indonesia and The British colonies of Malaysia and India or Australia? This is where the majority of the Dutch fleet is and it would make sense for the Dutch to attack British land from here. Is France involved in any way as they are allied with the Netherlands and have a colony near Indonesia where they could also attack British land.

That I do not know if France is invovled, i would assume it would stay neutral since it allied with both sides. As for United Kingdom and Dutch colonies I didn't figure in, I thougth fight was limited to the European battle field. Australia is more likly to jion this war if it is Indian Ocean but it United Kingdom in asia with Australian Allies. This my first time to write a war alogrithem. Please fix it if you see anything wrong. Draycos 18:57, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

The Algorithum looks right. The war would definatly reach Indonesia though. Britian and Holland share Borneo and India (Myanmar) is close to Sumatra. That is also were most of the Dutch Navy is, as well as 30 British ships and a British aircraft carrier. Indonesia and India also have aircraft and large armies made up mainly of natives.

Australia joined the war and is fighting the Dutch in New Guinea. How is the stability number worked out? And are both Belgium and Britain Australia's allies, seeing as they are all on the same side? Callumthered 03:47, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

The British Navy and Sepoys would have to be helping you but I think Belgium is only fighting in Europe.

Australians have 12 stability. Allies count for two points and include allies who have not sent troops. Make sure you are doing Indonesia not the Netherlands for strenth. Also England should fight on both fronts. The math does not always reflect how many tank and planes there are and naval battles should be done seperatly. By my math Australia loses a land war 36 to 38. They should also only get 32 points against England.

How do you find the stability of a colony (eg. Netherlands New Guinea)? Callumthered 22:40, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

{C 1 Maybe territory in Indonesia and Malaysia in real life. Belgium would not get involved in real life. A weaker Germany would mean that western Europe would not have to be as unified. 2 I just wonder why France is not involved yet. 3 It does not matter if they are synonyms because that is how we use them. ~anon

{C Hi im new at joining games here may i join in i am a decent player at this sort of games on different sites but due to work but i would like to join in as colombia or as one of the colonies of european nations.

Netherlands vs. Britain Vote
Issues have come up regarding this matter and several people think that the British invasion of Netherlands is implausible. Therefore, we will have a mod vote. If a majority of mods declare this implausible by Monday, January 23rd, the war will be rolled back. You must be a moderator to vote.

Implausible
CrimsonAssassin 18:24, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

-Lx (leave me a message) 00:41, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:24, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Plausible
Bobalugee1940 20:40, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

Decision
This war is declared Implausible. As result all info regarding Netherlands War and Indonesia and New Guinea War is removed from the game.

Join
um sorry my first time trying to join one of the games on this site.

How can i join?

Just add your name to a country and start playing. Bobalugee1940 20:40, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

Poland-Linuthia (however you spell it) war
Poland {C Linthuia

Discussion:
ok the this really about the war between Poland and Linthuia, but stuff above it. Is it just a recap of the talk page? Draycos

Southern flank
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 20px;">Greece <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 20px;">Turkey

Central flank
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 20px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Greece <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 20px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Turkey

Northern flank/Istanbul
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 20px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Greece <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 20px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">Turkey '''Total result: The greek flanks quickly connect on mainland Asia minor, the northern force quickly captures Istanbul, and moves ahead with reinforcements on to the turkish capital of Anakra, while the southern and central flanks continue to capture turkish territory bordering the mediterranean sea. some turkish troops manage to retreat to anakra, and prepare for the seige of the capital.'''

Discussion:

I don't know how to do the chance, or the stability, so plaese fill those in.Wegscuba 01:42, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Here are steps for using Random for chance. Click generate and result should pop up. Draycos

I didn't know exactly how to do the stability, and I had no clue what turkey's stability was.Wegscuba 22:18, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

It is impossible for stenth to be 5. Also Turkey has a larger population and probubly a larger industry than you do so it should have a streanth of 3 or 6 to your 6 or 9. It is also rediculess to give them 0 stabillity if you do not know theirs. Mathmitically it seems somewhat unlikely that you actually won in the North or South invation. You may have in the central one through chance.

So, i'm guessing that their stability would be somewhere around the same as mine (maybe a little bit higher) and, in that case, that would mean there was defeat on the southern flank, and victory on the two northmost ones.

That makes sense.

Turkey Edit
{C Attack on Anakra

Turkey Edit
{C Result: Greek troops, with the italians in their ranks sucsessfully regain the southern flank. they start advancing towards Anakra, and then they get bogged down, outnumbered, in a stalemate

Discussion: I need to know if English troops are helping.

No, they wern't, they were only supplying weapons, etc. the italians were helpingWegscuba 23:21, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Greece
Location:4

advantage:-2

Strength:12

motive:5

ally:8

chance:6

total:33

Turkey
Location:5

advantage:3

strength:9

motive:10

ally:8

chance:6

total:41

Result: in a last-ditch effort, the greeks fail to disloge the troops surrounding the capital. they then retreat toward the aegean coast.

Question
Do we really need to do a War Algorithm for between a players country and a no player countries? I can see why when it Player vs Player, but the non player country (and some players as well) don't have a stability chart. making a player guess there own and non player as well. Draycos

If we did not have one countries could just defeat or annex them randomly. I say we just take stabillity out of the equation as it has little to do with war any way. It certainly should not matter if the size and composition of an army does not.

Mods
Mods, report in here for a meeting. Just sign your name so I know you're still there. I need to tell you something. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:20, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

CrimsonAssassin 22:46, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Are all other mods inactive? PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:40, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a mod but would be willing to help. Draycos 23:48, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Brazilian front
Brazil

Location: 4

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strength: 6

Motive: 5

Chance: 2. (random.org)

Stability?

Alliances: 4

Total: 22

Bolivia

Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Strength: 0

Motive: 10

Chance: 3

Stability: ?

Alliances: 0

Total: 20

Chilean Front
Chile

Bolivia

Argentinian front
Argentina

Bolivia

Result
Victory on the Brazilian front. Close call will mean that it will take 2 years to totally conquer it all, since the area is pretty lawless, ther may be a lot of partisan resistance.

Here's where disappearing posts have been going!
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Poland vs Estonia and Lativa
Poland ecause most European and North American nations have large Jewish minorities (US, UK, Italy),or are under the reign of social democratic regimes (Trotsky in Norway and later Mexico). Fed (talk) 18:20, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Discusion
This being my second and third war in 5 years, some will scream implausblity. Let it begin.TacoCopper 23:09, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Why are Latvia and Estonia not allies? This needs to change. Your army is still pretty weak. The wars are against weak opponents so this is not an implausible war. Also you spelled Latvia wrong.

If you lose in Lithuania you cannot reach Estonia by land.

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 * Thanks for the info. But some people are using the Nazi camps as reasons for intervening in this. TacoCopper 18:23, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. I personally am just doing that because Trotsky is rising to prominence in Mexico and is going for a more equalitarian regime and because there are Jew minorities in Mexico. The Nazi camp thing though is implausible. Fed (talk) 18:25, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * There was still discrimination against them from the Nazis in Germany, just not full-scale genocide. LurkerLordB 18:26, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Spain is going to start concentration camps after the civil war is over. CrimsonAssassin 19:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if you did, there's no way anyone would know about it, unless the UN looked into it (which doesn't exist at the moment), or invaded the country.Wegscuba 02:36, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why is Britian suddenly attacking the Netherlands and supporting facism. Why is Germany not trying to expand or suport facism in Spain. They are still run by Hitler, who said repeatedly that Germany must invade the land to the East and that Communism was evil.
 * Hitler just agreed to stop descriminating agianst Jews. This man is in power solely because of blaming everything on Jews and Communists and promising to regain land and millitary power.
 * I would stop. If you do continue shouldn't you kill of Hitler then change things instead of having Hitler change then leave?
 * Britain attacking the Netherlands makes no sense.
 * Well, if we really wanted to we could build up a large amount of transports to bring troops to and from the battles that would happen.. But this is cool, its like a cold war between Fascists and Communists.TacoCopper 20:16, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * If another nation becomes communist like Venuzuala or Cuba there would be a war. This could also spill over into a war in Europe or Asia.
 * Why would there be a war? I don't think anyone would try to challenge the USSR by invading a newly formed Communists country.TacoCopper 01:59, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem with Germany killing Hitler. Hell, his poeple tried to assassinate him starting in 1934. As for UK attacking the Netherlands, they are trying to prove that are still strong, for these are final years that United Kingdom was a Super Power in the OLT. These are just my thoughts. Draycos 18:46, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Except Britain and the Netherlands are buddies. There's no realistc reason for Britain to invade them with a 1933 PoD. Azecreth
 * That makes no sense. Belgium and the Netherlands were friends. You can kill Hitler, just remember that the people loved him and the government was ruled by Nazis and for Nazis.
 * Why is Britain now helping its coloniese instead of brutalizing and starving them? How can they even afford this given that they and France are as much in the great depression as America is.
 * And while we're at it, why is Austria not in a lot of chaos? How did they avoid the Austrian Civil War and the assassination of Engelbert Dolfuss? How did they breach the Sudeten forts so easily? Azecreth 23:54, January 17, 2012 (UTC
 * That war was never really explained.
 * Well, the Algormith was never done, but I started doing the math in my head any the only way Czechslovkia would have won would have been by chance. Forts aren't added in any score, based on what I have read. Besides, it is a little late for that now since Mods are not taking care of their responsiblities.TacoCopper 01:18, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is England attacking the Netherlands or Indonesia? Either way it still makes little sense. Why don't they ask there ally to help invade Okinawa or another island owned by Japan, their enemies?
 * I need an algorithum and the actuall amount of troops from each counrty fast. China seems to think they have already won. The sides are Mongolia:1500 cavalry currently, Rebels:2000 mounted infantry, Poland, Australia, Chinese communists: 1000 infantry, Russia, Turkey 20 bombers agianst Chinese warlord:10000 cavalry, China
 * Mongolia, the Chinese communists, and rebels now have 4600 combined troops. China has remved its support leaving the 10000 Chinese cavalry alone. Turkish bombers have yet to reach the war. Amount of Australian cavalry and Polish and Russian forces are unknown. Algorithum still needs to be done.
 * You can create the Algorithum yourself, Just let a mod do the stabilty and Chance part. Draycos
 * I'm going to wait for Poland and Russia. Right now it is 5600 cavalry and 40 bombers against 10000 cavalry.
 * Poland sent two devisions of 2,000 regular infrantry, so that would be 4,000.TacoCopper 01:40, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm splitting the war into two parts. Part one 2600 cavalry, 7000 infantry, 20 bombers defending against 10,000 cavalry. Rebels allied with Russia, Poland, Mongolia, Australia, and Chinese Communists. Warlord allied with China. Stability is going to be confusing.
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * Stability: 11
 * Alliances: 2
 * Grand Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 12
 * Motive: 6
 * Chance: 2
 * Stability: 7.5
 * Alliances: 10
 * Grand Total: 44.5
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Stability: 7.5
 * Alliances: 0
 * Grand Total: 28.5
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: 21
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * Stability: 7.5
 * Alliances: 14
 * Grand Total: 50.5
 * Location: 5
 * Tatical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: Political: 5
 * Chance: 1 (I used that random.org website)
 * Stability: 15
 * Alliances: 8
 * Grant Total: 5 + 2 + 6 + 5 + 1 +15 + 8 = 42
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: Political: 5
 * Chance: 9 (I used that random.org website)
 * Stability: 15
 * Alliances: 4
 * Grand Total: 5 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 9 + 15 + 6 = 44
 * Didn't the black hand have two allies?
 * First it's black front. Second, I don't know, I think it was either Belgium and USSR or some other country. Enclavehunter 01:33, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be life or death for the motive,TacoCopper 01:34, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good Point. I'll change it. Enclavehunter 01:35, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * If the Nazis lose will they go to Austria, reform the government, hide in the wilds, or just disapear? I'm asking because this is similar to my war.
 * USSR can just sign an alliance with the Black front and make nazis not win.-Lx (leave me a message) 02:56, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. Enclavehunter 04:29, January 20, 2012 (UTC)*Spain is supporting the Nazis. CrimsonAssassin 04:42, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, Spain is with the Nazis. That's two. I suppose Siam, Japan, and Italy support Nazis Germany too. And I assume the Black Front is supported by the USSR Enclavehunter 05:03, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Belgium supports The Black Front. Supplies and weapons have been sent to them, but have not committed troops to the fight. Draycos 14:08, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5 (used that random.org)
 * Stability: 5
 * Allies: 2
 * location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4 (used that random.org)
 * Stability: 6
 * Allies: 0
 * location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 9
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6 (used that random.org)
 * Stability: 2
 * Allies: 2
 * location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6 (used that random.org)
 * Stability: 6
 * Allies: 0
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 8
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * Stability: 12
 * Allies: 1
 * location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Stability: ?
 * Allies: 0
 * UK & Belgium: 58
 * Australia:
 * Netherlands: 68 (should this be divide by 2 due to multi-fronts?)
 * Now there are three fronts
 * Okay, guys, what the hell? Is there any reason other than 'OLOLOL I AM IMPLAUSIBLE EXTENDDDD' so to attack the Netherlands? Because the Netherlands, the UK and Belgium were ALL friendly in the time, plue even if they weren't, you have no reason to attack the Netherlands. Oh, and Holland and the Netherlands aren't synonyms, fyi. Fed (talk) 16:11, January 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the game it is definatly stupid and impossible.
 * There needs to be a mod vote on this. CrimsonAssassin 18:24, January 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1. it still makes no sense since he didn't write anything like that. Belgium was an ally of both the UK and the Netherlands BEFORE Nazi conquest.
 * 2. Because France doesn't want to start a World War?
 * 3. So in your logic, I can use 'hate' and 'love' are synonyms or I can state 2+2=5 because that's how I use it? No. You have to use proper English. Fed (talk) 00:17, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I said that is how it could happen not how it did. Also Germany losing so much power would definitly effect western europe. Only British and French nations and possibly America would be involved in a war between Britian and France. Britian and France have no allies outside of America, Holland, Belgium, Australia, Greece, and America and they share most of them. Idiot actually means insane not stupid. If I called you one you would not think this because this is not how we use the word anymore. If words did not change meaning Italian and Latin would be the same language. I still agree the war makes little sense.
 * Spain just annexed the kingdom of Portugal. Portugal is not a kingdom after World War 1. It also does not like Spain. Both their anthom and flag are based on the war of Independance from Spain. Spain also ended their position as the strongest country in Europe.
 * Yea i saw that too. Thats quite implausible, can we get that checked by a mod around by any chance?83.147.140.239 00:41, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is stranger than the British war. Britian giving away land to the Arabs and creating a perect system for Palinstine being colonized by Jews are also stranger. So is them being invaded in their strongest country by Afghanistan. Germany not being facist is also strange but not important to what I just put.
 * Okay, I need to clear up some issues.
 * Spain did not annex Portugal. It was a deal. Wait for next turn for this thing to play out.
 * The player that played Portugal said they also turned Fascist too.
 * Spain is doing what OTL Nazi Germany did, making them one of the most powerful nations in Europe. I am a bit disappointed that, in every Axis vs. Allies game, someone assassinates Hitler and otherwise tries to prevent WWII. Anywho, Spain is just as strong as Nazi Germany was before WWII.
 * They were both facist but the countries did not like each other. Portugal agreeing to join with Spain is like Ireland agreeing to join with England because they are both republics. Even today there is tension between the countries. Spain was not powerfull after WW1. It just had a civil war and the economy was terrible. The army was not very good either. Why do you think they did not help Germany invade France in WW2? If we had someone playing as Portugal this would never have happened. The Nazis only took one country before being attacked. They invaded Checkoslovakia by force and when they asked for Poland the war started. Everwhere else he only took land occupied by Germans who spoke German. Realistically Portugal was as strong a country as Spain before the war. They had more colonies and were much more stable.
 * In my opinion, I think Brazil, the USSR, Spain, even Britain would start the Second World War. Enclavehunter 15:33, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, my original plan was to create a south American Fascist alliance, then help Nazi Germany win WW2. That obviously didn't work, so I'm going to still make the alliance, then have a major fascist power in South America. And the US better not invade us, or they will pay in lives. Azecreth 16:44, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * A war with only two or three large countries is not a world war.
 * England keeps doing crazy things
 * 1 makes all territories independant
 * 2 enforce laws to promote equality for all races and religious groups in India
 * 3 askes Ireland to become a commonwealth 8 years after the Irish revolution
 * 4 expands the millitary during the depression with no enemies
 * 5 fund Franco
 * 6 makes plans to invade the Netherlands
 * 7 consider giving the land it had taken from the Arabs 10 years ago to keep them from becoming too powerfull back
 * 8 give aid to all the poor people in its former empire and to the Arabs during a depression while it upgrades the millitary
 * 9 creates the most powerfull tank
 * 10 askes Japan to help invade the Netherlands
 * 11 declare war on the Netherlands
 * 12 give the Arabs all their land in Arabia for nothing
 * 13 find the perfect plan for Isreal
 * 14 give more money to former colonies
 * 15 askes France and Germany to become one counrty
 * 16 take all of Indonesia although the math says they lose there
 * none of these things would have happened during peace in a depression while England still had the empire
 * Well, I'm not them, but just because they say it's the strongest tank doesn't make it the strongest tank. And they haven't initiated the Israel plan so we don't know how perfect it is. Other than that, yeah, that stuff is wierd. We definitely need mod intervention (Somebody besides PitaKang do something about this.) Azecreth 23:55, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know im not becoming one country with England and I dont think Europe can keep ignoring the war going on in the Netherlands eitherWhitesight 00:06, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would say France and south east asia more than Europe. It is happening right between Japan and Siam.
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * Stability: 
 * Allies: 6
 * Total:27 
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Stability: 
 * Allies: 0
 * Total: 25
 * Results: Poland wins the war with huge casulties but still in the end capture the nation of Linthuia. Based on how close it is, the war will last 2 years. Poland annexes Linthuia.
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength:' 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Stability:11?
 * Allies: 2
 * Total:4+6+5+5+2+11?+2=35?
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6
 * Stability:?
 * Allies: 0
 * Total: 5+2+3+10+6+?+0=26?
 * Results: the landing is sucsessful
 * 'Location:' 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * 'Strength:' 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Stability:11?
 * Allies: 2
 * Total:4+1+6+5+7+11?+2=41?
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Stability:?
 * Allies: 0
 * Total: 5+2+3+10+3+?+0=23?
 * Results:the landing is very sucsessful
 * 'Location:' 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * 'Strength:' 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * Stability:11?
 * Allies: 2
 * Total:4+1+6+5+9+?+2=43?
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength:3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Stability:?
 * Allies: 0
 * Total: 5+2+3+10+4+?+0=26?
 * Results:Istanbul is captured
 * go to http://www.random.org/
 * On the main page, on right side you should see a box that says True Random Number Generator
 * Set Max. and Min. numbers to 1 and 10.
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: 9
 * Motive: 6
 * Stability: 11?
 * Alliances: 6
 * Chance: 8
 * Total: 45
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: 11?
 * Alliances: 0
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 23
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: 9
 * Motive: 5
 * Stability: 11?
 * Alliances: 6
 * Chance: 3
 * Total: 36
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +3
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: 11?
 * Alliances: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 37
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8 (random.org)
 * Stability?
 * Alliances: 3
 * Total: 24
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4 (random.org)
 * Stability: ?
 * Alliances: 0
 * Total: 21
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 6
 * Stability: +2
 * Alliances: 8
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: ?
 * Alliances: 4
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 26
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 5
 * Stability: ?
 * Alliances: 4
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 25
 * Estonia
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: ?
 * Alliances: 2
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 24
 * Lativa
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: ?
 * Alliances: 2
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 25
 * Results
 * Poland takes Estonia and Lativa with large casulties, and the war will last 2 years.
 * Total: 25
 * Results
 * Poland takes Estonia and Lativa with large casulties, and the war will last 2 years.

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Poland won the war with Lithunia in 1940.6, so we can reach Estonia. thats true, you cant have that becuase the polish forces arent great enough yet, how about mounting a joint soviet-polish invasion in 1941? -Lx (leave me a message) 02:30, January 27, 2012 (UTC) Poland could invade Estonia through the edge of Lithuania without defeating Lithuania,==Spain vs. France=====Spain======France======Result:=== Strong Spanish Victory. Spain pushes far into French lands.

French Terms of Surrender
Spain will give France back its lost territory if France:

a) Becomes a fascist state

b) Signs a defensive pact with Spain

c) Cease hostilities towards other fascist nations

Dispute
France should have 6 streanth because it is bigger and has more industry than Spain.

No it does not. Spain has been amping up its industry like an SoB like the OTL Nazis did. CrimsonAssassin 23:30, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

French colonies should also factor into this because they are huge and very close to Spain. At the very least they would take control of the parts of North Africa Spain ownes.

If they don't surrender, their colonies are going on the chopping block too. For now, though, I'll leave them out. CrimsonAssassin 00:37, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

You could not invade an area that big. Even the Nazis did not attempt it. The Foriegn Legion drove through Italy and Africa to see the Battle of Berlin. The French colonies were more powerfull than the real French Army.

Britian should also help France like they did in WW2.

I meant in terms of negotiations. CrimsonAssassin 01:21, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

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Dumb question, but what aggression has France committed, since the Netherlands war got retconned? And yeah, the French still have greater industry, since you had to rebuild your nation fro ma civil war. Azecreth 02:59, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

France has failed to remove the alarming number of troops from its borders. Spain, fearing an invasion, asked France to tone it down. Rather than cut back, France increased its troop levels. Knowing an invasion was probable, Spain struck first. As for industry, OTL Germany and ATL Spain were both in tight spots in the early '30s before becoming highly industrious nations. CrimsonAssassin 04:26, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">France has a bigger industry which it has also been amping up France's military has been amping up from the very start.

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">A) It has a larger military overall than Spain

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">B) France is as advanced or more advanced than Spain as Spain

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">C) Spain is after going through a brutal civil war in 1936.6 it physically can not repair the damage done to its country and build a greater military to France one of the Worlds leading powers.

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">D) Spain has not got a formidable navy after the civil war so they cannot defend themselves from sea invasions and cannot defend their colonies.

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">E) Spain has a population of 25 and a half million at this time Germany's population was close to 70 million Germany had a numerical advantage over France who were not mobilised for war in OTL as France is in this war. Frances population is close to 42 million. Spain does not have the manpower to improve its industry to the size of Germany’s in OTL or create an army the size of France’s/

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">F) Spain’s Allies - First of all who it should be said whether or not which allies will help you and attack the country and the likes of Japan can’t really do anything in this war as they are to far away and i doubt Germany is going to help you a fascist state as it just got rid of a fascist leader. Poland and Italy are off fighting their own wars so it looks like it’s going to be Spain vs France the UK and Belgium.

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">For these reasons I think France will win this war decisivelyWhitesight 11:02, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">Britain's fighting <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; "> a war in Saudi Arabia and I asked other nations not to meddle in this affair anyway. France does not have a larger military than Spain and it is not more advanced. Spain is using forced labor along with methods oher countries are using. I am the mod here and the algorithm's outcome has been calculated. If you make an issue over the outcome of this or ignore it, you may be banned. Now, are you going to follow your terms of surrender? CrimsonAssassin 15:21, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">You should not be able to bully by being a mod. You both have some good points and should try to find a realistic outcome instaid of just trying to win.

<p style="margin-top: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 15.75pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">I'm not bullying, I'm saying that defiance of an algorithm will result in a ban. CrimsonAssassin 19:18, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

It just you and france fighting right? So shouldn't alliances on both be zero? I never understood why alliances count if it just a one on one war. Draycos 19:30, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Allies that are in the war count in strenth and allys. Since Britian just joined the war they should contribute 3 points to streanth. The allies in the allies section apart from Britian are not fighting but may lend money or weapons and give intelligence.

Ok, that makes sence.

Result:
The Forighn Leagon makes huge gains in Spanish Morrocco. All Spanish forces are pushed into a few cities in the north west. Preperations are made for an invasion of Spain from Africa. The attack on Spanish West Africa is quickly reduced to a meaningless occupation of desert areas and is hampered by Berber and Spanish guerillas. Spanish West Africa is able to return the attacks, taking bits of French territory in Africa.

Result:
Strong Spanish Victory. Spain pushes farther into French lands, especially the coastal areas along the Atlantic and Mediteranean. Many naval shipyards are taken over and more mines are sent into French waters.

France:
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 1

Streanth: 12 pop+germany+england+cheese

Motive: 10

Stability: 0

Alliances: 8

Chance: 9

Total: 45

Spain:
Location: 5

Tactical Advantage: 2

Streanth: 6

Motive: 5

Stability: 2

Alliences: 8

Chance: 9

Total: 37

Foriegn Legion:
Location: 4

Tactical Advantage: 1

Strenth: 6: pop+cheese

Motive: 10

Stability: 0

Alliances: 10

Chance: 7

Total: 38

Result:
French naval superiority allows the foriegn legion to make a beach head in Spain. Due to a lack of tanks and planes they make little progress once on shore. The Spainish army is distraced enough to allow Freanch and German forces to retake a small fraction of the land lost with British air support. When their advance ends lines are made 80 miles east of Spain.

Should France not have motive of ten as it is its existence in peril?

Shit I switched France and Spain. Delete anything they wrote!!

I fixed it. Spain needs to delete what they wrote. They do not invade Paris. France is now winning.

First Nukes
alright everybody. nows the time where nuclear weapons begin. I would assume that there would be a process decideing witch nation will explode the first nucular weapon, and I would say that it shoud be done here, in a plausible and civilized manner. Here are the nominees for first nucular weapon:

Nominees
Poland and Russia(CNAT joined program): 84; 76

United States:79; 54

Japan: 64; 97

Great Britain: 45; 78

Lets decide, every moderator will post theri RNG numbers(between 1 and 100), and whoever gets the largest number the most times will win the prize of first nuke, if there are any objections, please comment in the Discussion section. if there are joint programs, feel free to add the naiton beside the the main one and add joint program in brackets.-Lx (leave me a message) 02:28, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Mongolia is part of CNAT. They have nothing to do with atomic bombs though.

Shouldn't Germany be on this list as well or did German Civil War mess up their research on the Atomic bomb. Draycos 02:47, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

German civil war did kind of mess up the third reich power thing. if you want to argument that further then feel free to say that germans can still be nuclear-Lx (leave me a message) 02:54, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

No, I'm fine with it. just wondering why they where not on the list. The German player might want it though. Draycos 03:00, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Nah. Germany won't have nukes (not now anywau), I'm the player of Germany, and prefer to stick with conventional warfare. Enclavehunter 04:16, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'd say Spain would have a good shot at making an atomic bomb. CrimsonAssassin 04:29, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Which year does the first nation goes first? RandomWriterGuy 05:52, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

well, the first nuke should be invened in in 1944.6, after that, I guess i.5 years between nations...so, in 1946, the second nation booms, in 1947.5 the third, in 1949, the final nation. after that, nukes are aanyone's game as long as they follow a 4 year+ nucular weapons program.

question
how do i find out the power of my nation industrialy, militarily and the morale of my people?

Do infrustructure upgrade, create industries, solve problems that OTL nation had that you can fix. Draycos 03:00, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Result
Germany liberates western Chezslovakia, keeps the Sudentland, and keeps soldiers in the new country to protect it from other agressors. Austria signs an unconditional surrender to Germany (used an random org to determine it.)

Pakistan War
Why hasn't anyone reminded me about the Pakistani War?! RandomWriterGuy 23:39, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Austrian and Hungarian Unification Talks
Austria would like to unite with with Hungary to form the Austro-Hungarian Democratic Republic, which would have a constiution much like the the United States of Americas. DeanSims 17:33, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Southern Front
Italy

Yugoslavia

Result:
Italian forces crush Yugoslav resistance after a year and capture Belgrade. CheesyCheese 18:31, January 29,2012 (UTC)

Colombian intervention in Ecuador
Can someone help me with this only if it is accepted of course if i cant eventually invade ecuador no problem, i just want some help here.

if your going to invade you need a reason why. Big examples of reason are:

I am building up to that it will be political,social.

Will not happen for a while until the situation in Venezuela has been sorted out.

Netherlands
I'm taking up the Netherlands, I noticed that they were in a series of "war games" with Britain, anything else I need to know? JonAllenMichael 20:07, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

No, Nothing Major. welcome to the Game Draycos 20:27, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I cancelled the war and nullified it from the map game because many thought it was wrong. I'll be your ally, but pretend the war never happened. I'll give you aid. RandomWriterGuy 22:44, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Stability
Mods, I really need your help with Stability. Any mod that does not respond to this message will be automatically removed from the Mod list. It is a responsibility of the mods to take care of stability. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:35, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I guess I can help somewhat, but it will take a while to get the stability up to date.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:42, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Discussions
PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:58, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Order:

Iraq
Iraq was supposed to be mine. When I told Saudi Arabia it can have all possessions in the Arab Peninsula, it didn't include Iraq. Can you put it back on the map? (sorry for the confusion) RandomWriterGuy 22:42, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Fixed, check new map. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:01, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Military intervention in Venezuela
Its on political griounds preventing a communist regime from taking power and establishing a friendly puppet state.

can someone help me with the algorithem ive been ramping up the armed forces as well as industry since

Its actualy the venezuelan civil war, one side backed by brazil, the other by the USSR-Lx (leave me a message) 00:41, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Venezuelan Civil War
This is the Section for the Venezuelan Communist revolt

Result
Depends on How we count stability(if at all) and how many nations join the conflict.

Discussion
Im taking a slow attempt providing resources and support in areas occupied to prevent revolts and establish some sort of support for loyalist forces, as well as slowly increasing the presence in the region.Also you forgot defenders advantage. Nkbeeching </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li>

</li>

</li>
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 6
 * Stability: +2
 * Alliances: 8
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: 0
 * Alliances: 4
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 26
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: +2
 * Alliances: 2
 * Chance: 3
 * Total: 27
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: 12
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: 0
 * Alliances: 2
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +8
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: +2
 * Alliances: 8
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 42
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: 6
 * Motive: 6
 * Stability: +2
 * Alliances: 8
 * Chance: 8
 * Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Stability: 0
 * Alliances: 4
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 29
 * What countries are part of CNAT
 * most communist naitons, USSR, Tannu Tuva. Mongolia, communists in china, turkestan, Poland, the lot.
 * Mongolia and Tuva re one country now.
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 3 + 3 = 6
 * Motive: Political: 5
 * Chance: 6 (random.org)
 * Stability: 5
 * Alliances: 8
 * Total: 36
 * Location: 4
 * Tatical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: Political: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Alliances: 0
 * Total: 18
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical: 1
 * Strength: 9
 * Motive: 5
 * Random: 5
 * Stability: 5
 * Alliance: 2
 * Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Random: 4
 * Stability: 4
 * Total: 25
 * Religious
 * Social/moral
 * Political
 * Economical
 * Time: 5:37:28
 * Number of edits of user (Russia): 2006
 * Random number: 62
 * Time: (Mins x hours / secs) x 5= 30
 * Number of edits: (2006/(Time (Mins + Hours + Secs)))= 32.5
 * Random Number: 62/2= 31
 * Total: 96.5
 * Time: 5:42:53
 * Number of edits of user: 2590
 * Random number: 55
 * Time: 20
 * Number of edits: 25.9
 * Random number: 48.5
 * Total: 94.4
 * Time: 5:52:35
 * Number of edits: 130 (if less than 2,000 *12)= 1560
 * Random number: 74
 * Time: 7
 * Number of edits: 17
 * Random number: 37
 * Total: 61
 * Time: 5:55:58
 * Number of edits: 1681
 * Random number: 26
 * Time: 5
 * Number of edits: 14
 * Random number: 13
 * Total: 32
 * Poland/Russia
 * United States
 * Japan
 * Great Britain
 * At the war: 5
 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Soviet Union/Poland: 6
 * Larger population:Civil war
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Chance:7
 * Stability:????(civil war in npc. detailed later.)
 * CNAT allies:10(USSR,Poland, mongolia, Turkestan,Japan)
 * Total: Stability+35
 * At the war: 5
 * Brazil/Colombia: 6
 * Defenders: 2
 * Greater industry: Civil war
 * Life or death : 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Stability: ????? (civil war in NPC. will be detailed later)
 * Alliances: SAACP (South American Anti-Communist Pact): 8?(Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Chile???)(dont realy know who is in this alliance)( its brazil, colombia,argentina, and chile, although only colombia is directly involved in the conflict at the moment. Now brazil is also involved militarily)
 * Total: Stability+33

Stablity isn't going to matter, because it's the same country. As for how many nations join the conflict, I think the main people intervening are Colombia/Brazil vs Poland/USSR. I don't think many nations will join this besides those already in it. Also, how long is this war gonna last. I think since no one controls the rebles or the loyalists, we should just make it last two years and which ever side has the most points wins, unless the conflict spreads. What do you guys think.TacoCopper 01:03, February 2, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

I like the isdea but ill probably keep on pumping soldiers into venezuela or directly invading it to install a puppet regime if my initial efforts fail which will likely drain me of resourses but will solidify my position. Nkbeeching</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

Well, unless someone else has a better idea, we'll use this. Also, no hard feelings in our battles agaisnt each other.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

No its jusst a game after all</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

 im willing to accept that communist rebels are fairing well with CNAT support but its absolutly impossible for the polish and soviet forces to be so successfull in such a short time wiping out loyalist strongholds so easily for several simple reasons:1 they are to far from home and in a extremely unstable region with limited resources for there forces with several blockades cutting there supply lines over sees,2 in the case of poland it needs the resources to stop revolts that would be in its own country against minorities in its recently conquered territories,3 both my own nation of colombia and the nation of brazil are right next door to the conflict and we are pooring massive amounts of troops and resources into the conflict at a far faster pace then CNAT is, im not complaining just want the mods and poland, ussr to keep that in consideration,4 brazilian, and colombian forces are far better trained and indoctrined in jungle warfare then the communist forces from the cold mountains or fields of europe and siberia, 5 they are pouring mass resources into there neclear program already which alone strains there funds and stability greatly. again what ever mods decid on im accepting but this my point of view. Nkbeeching 08:57 pm </li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

 I am not an offical negiotiator for either sides, but wouldn't it be simplier to just divide the nation in half? The north is a Communist country supported by CNAT, while the south is a fascist nation supported by SAACP. </li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

That would mean allowing the CNAt a foothold in South America which i think is unacceptable.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

The US let it happen in real life.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

Well, i guess this is a fight to the death, or till the two years are over. Which is in 1945.5 I think.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

at the moment the north is under communist control, the west and part of the south is under colombian control, and the south is under brazilian control. it looks like after 2 years it will end up 3 way partitioned a small communist state in the north brazilian annexed southeast and west, southwest under colombian protection, that wasnt how i expected it but ok, ill probably invade the communist area after a while in a few years so im ok with this partitioning i guess. Nkbeeching</li></li>==​sigh== </li></li>

I'm not raving about losing an algorithm. I'm disappointed, though, that in every single AvA game, it's the same thing. Some people go out of their way to avoid WWII. Others bastardize WWII. I've just gotta ask why is that? CrimsonAssassin 03:57, February 1, 2012 (UTC) </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li> </li></li></li></li>

<li>Hey. Don't get disappointed. You will get revenge one day. I am still trying to get the war started. I am just taking over all the weak nations around me. In fact, I already got four nations under my wing.TacoCopper 04:01, February 1, 2012 (UTC) </li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

<li>Don't be disappointed. I want to start an war, I'm just waiting to see what's open to invasion, heck, I think my target is somewhere in the Middle East. Only reason I killed Nazis Germany off, was that I like the sound of the Federal Republic of Germany instead of Nazis Germany. I think World War II can occur, just have to wait for the right person to ignite it. Enclavehunter 04:05, February 1, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

<li>Still, Germany, if you want a WWII, why betray Spain? We could be a powerful Axis. We can split France down the middle! CrimsonAssassin 04:31, February 1, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

<li>Im attempting to start something by trying tom make thingds communists, all this has achieved is a proxy war, and a cold war between Fascists and Commuists.-Lx (leave me a message) 12:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

<li>In my opinion, WWII would start in Europe before it starts in South America. We got three expanionist states right next to each other. Austria, Poland, and Italy. Greece has attempted to expand, so you could count them.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

<li>The only way I can see WW2 happening now is if Japan invades someone. That way it will be America agianst Brazil Italy and Spain against Francce and England and CNAT or China or England or America agianst Japan.</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

<li>Well, i am aligned to CNAT so they are on Japan Side. Swollow</li></li>

French and Spanish War Cease Fire </li></li>

<li>Since Spain has offered peace to all sides, it is time for the terms of the peace treaty to be drawn up. Here are the terms:</li>===Discussion=== This is not a terms of surrender. This is a cease-fire. I will pay for the war, but I am not limiting my military or giving away colonies. It is dangerous and unecessary. CrimsonAssassin 22:50, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Stability/War

 * I've decided to not do it for a while, because nobody really uses it. Instead of the War Algorithm, the Mods will decide when things are implausible or not. And Collie Kaltenburger, you've been accepted as a mod. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:22, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

<li>I don't think we should get rid of it. Stablity, no one used it. But not the War Algorithm. It shouldn't be removed. Every war used the Algorithm, with the exception of the Czechslovkia war but I thought a mod would take care of it at the time. TacoCopper 23:53, February 4, 2012 (UTC</li></li></li>

<li>I would have to argue against removing the algorithm. but stability maybe, as it would realy be a hassle for one person to do everything from the begining of the game</li></li></li>

<li>I'll have to agree with removing the algorithm. That's been the death of many a map game, as individuals simply can't accept the fact that their nation is weaker than another nation. Not having a neutral algorithim ultimately brings about biased, aka unplausible, events, and makes players begin to control other player's military and nations. For example, see the the Brazil-USSR conflict and what happened in the Caribbean. Not trying to be a jerk, just saying what the reality is. JonAllenMichael 17:16, February 6, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

<li>Honestly, I should be dominating that conflict. I'm right next to the warzone. My ships are blockading the coast, I have air superiority. And somehow the americans dion't care that the soviets have enough power projection to send a sizable fleet to the carribbean, which is practicallly their front doorstep. Which brings up the question of how they're keeping their boats supplied. Azecreth 17:23, February 6, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li>

<li>They have 170 million people and the most powerfull millitary in the world. They have the biggest army in the world. They have a nuclear bomb. The cold war does not exist and WW2 did not happen. This means that America has a much weaker millitary and economy and even in real life it allowed two communists nations to form in the Americas. They are keeping there boats supplied with a huge economy and huge expendable navy.</li></li>

<li>But they have no bases near the Carribbean, meaning all their boats need to go back to Poland to resupply their fleet, biug economy or not. And what ever happened to the Monroe Doctrine with the Roosevelt Corollary. The nuclear bomb means nothing, since her hasn't used it. And they still can't land that 170 million man army because I'm blockading Venezuala.</li>

<li>dNukes</li> </li>

<li>Remember, USA, you get nukes next. Since LurkerLordB is absent, I will post that the US got nukes. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:24, February 3, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li>

<li>I got a question. Since Poland/USSR had a joint nuclear program, does that mean we both develop nukes at the same rate. As in, I can build a nuke as fast as he does. Or, since I am a minor nation, does it take longer for me to build one</li></li></li>

<li>Im pretty sure that it means that you do get nukes at the same time, and in any case, the USSR will let you have somew</li></li></li>

Turn Question
At the top of the page it says that there are essentially two turns per day, or so I thought, however, it still seems like we are only doing one turn a day. Since turns start at 7:00 PM est, shouldn't that mean that the next turn or half year would start at 7:00 AM est? And if that's the case, why aren't we in 1945? Or have I just read everything completely wrong? JonAllenMichael 19:35, February 4, 2012 (UTC) you read right but this happen in the Last game nobody said anything, and it seam to happen again here. Draycos Strangely, I think either my post was rolled back in 1946, or it didn't save. It would be weird if my post was rolled back, especially since we are supposed to have 2 "half turns" in a day... mods can you please look into this? JonAllenMichael 17:44, February 7, 2012 (UTC)