Alternative History talk:TSPTF

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What's going on?
I've been having a hard time lately with the wiki. Images barely load, I can't edit or publish anything, and sometimes I get blank screens despite being fully loaded. What is going on?

Canuck2012 (talk) 02:26, March 2, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Wikia's having issues. They actually announced it this time, too, so whatever it is, it must be significant. Will be over in a few days, I'm sure. Lordganon (talk) 11:39, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Issues? I'm having none... but I'm using the monobook skin so that's probably why. PitaKang- (We are the Emperor's Chosen | Ave Imperator!) 20:13, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Canuck, do you use IE? Sometimes, the older version cannot cope up, and Chrome usually solves the problem. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:22, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I've been having many problems, using any of my 3 browsers (Opera, Chrome & IE).. Hence I've not bothered doing anything here the past couple of days. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:43, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, this is the problem which was happening yesterday. Its been fixed I think :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:47, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

It goes on and off for me. Been waiting all day for a chance to make edits.

IE, Chrome, Opera, and Safari are all having the problem for me.

At first, I thought it was my computer. So then I used my desktop. Then I thought it was my network, so I tried using a school computer. Now I'm stucking refreshing pages and waiting.

Also, Pita, Monobook is having problems too.

21:02, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

It's the JavaScript. Mine didn't work Thursday, so I sent an error report, then it worked Friday, and then it wouldn't work today, so I sent an error report, and now it's back up again. Is there any way that the penalties for not posting on a map game can be lessened due to technical difficulties? CourageousLife (talk) 21:26, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

It has been acting up on my end. I couldn't edit pages yesterday and earlier today. Seems to be working fine now. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 06:10, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia announced earlier today that the javascript problems had been fixed. Should be the end of troubles with editing, for now. Lordganon (talk) 07:15, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Glad that's cleared up. And I use Chrome by the way. IE's too much of a pain nowadays, it seems.

Canuck2012 (talk) 17:37, March 9, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

I still can't edit the forums.

Not sure if that's related though.             "Very funny, Scotty.   Now beam down my clothes."

Like with any of their problems, I expect it will be a few weeks before it clears up entirely.

...And you still have the "signature." It needs to go, Guns.

Lordganon (talk) 09:11, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

SonnyPatton
Wow, this is truly hilarious.

I recently got a message from SonnyPatton that he had moved my Great White South timeline over to his site in order to make it into a game. He gave me this link, which apparently I can not view (apparently I am blocked for some reason, maybe someone else can see it?). I informed him that I did not want him to do this, and asked him to kindly remove it. He then replied trying to justify his actions, and I once again told him to remove the (unseen) content. Than THIS (I especially love the GIF).

I have given him my thoughts on the matter, and now I have blocked him. I am allowing him to be able to edit his talk page, only because I want to see what he plans to say in response.

I blocked him for a week, because of his wonderful comment to me, but also his comment to ImperiumGuy after he stood up for me. I assume I have no objections to this. I would also highly recommend extending the block much longer, but I feel a week is an initial start and it can be extended if needed. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:40, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just as an update, this is what I see when I click on this link. At this point, I honestly don't care what is on that page, but just showing that I am blocked. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:41, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

The guy's an idiot - unless you are registered on his forum, you cannot see anything on it. Interesting that he found your IP to block it, though.

A permanent ban is a good plan. I also took the liberty, as per protocol, and since he was banned forever, to delete all his works on this site.

Lordganon (talk) 08:21, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, what an asshole... I think he was just trolling, though. No one's that stupid. PitaKang- (We are the Emperor's Chosen | Ave Imperator!) 14:40, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, how I wish you were right.

There is people that stupid.

Lordganon (talk) 08:42, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism
Some user named "Branbran64" has continuous vandalized the Night of the Living Alternate History (Map Game) page. His most recent attack has been posting "Eddie ands jon r butthurt so much they cant walk 'cause they have full anuses" several hundred times. He has wrote several messages, including one that sexually harrassed another user, and he appears to not be done. If some one could ban him that would be great. Mscoree (talk) 01:02, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

You two seem to share a few favorite wikis. Know each other from somewhere? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 05:46, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Banned for a very lengthy period. Lordganon (talk) 12:02, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Gl78064
I have been noticing that a user by the name of Gl78064 has been doing nothing but uploading flags (and a video) to this site. Not creating or editing articles, just uploading flags and a video (mostly related to Texas and Mexico). I commented him a while back about duplications, and have not seen a response.

The main reason I am bringing this up is because his actions remind me of Sunlord (which I brought up back in December). Not saying these two are the same guy, but that if he is not responding to comments and is only uploading files with no rhyme or reason, this seems suspicious. Not sure what to make of this, but if this is anything like before, this gradual uploading for no reason will continue. Any thoughts? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:56, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lets see what his intentions are. He could just be getting acquainted with the wiki, although the similarities does seem pretty suspicious. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 09:03, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

I highly doubt he is "getting acquainted" here, but I do agree that it is too early to say. But as of recently, he has re-uploaded a file that I told him was a duplicate, and messaged him about this again. If he does it again, that will be three strikes and I will probably block him. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:33, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, Nuke - block as you wish. Lordganon (talk) 10:01, April 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * He has recently added an article which includes all the images he has uploaded. However, he has also duplicated again. I have blocked him for three days. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:20, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

He has once again added a duplicate after being blocked for thee days, and has not made any kind of contact aside from adding files and an occasional article. I have re-blocked him for two weeks. If I have gone too far in the blocking period, feel free to change it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 05:21, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

No, it's good - he hasn't responded or communicated to you, at all.

Really, unless something is horribly wrong with a block, or some other action, the decisions of an admin aren't going to be changed. Just wrong, overall, to question each other's decisions - one sign of a poor and dysfunctional admin team if that is the case.

Most I do is extend blocks for repeat offenders if it wasn't noticed.

Lordganon (talk) 07:44, May 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear, I was worried I went overboard. I recalled you gave a two-week block for a second offense, so I went with that. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:15, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

A week or two, depending on the offense. This one would be a two-week, for sure. Lordganon (talk) 11:51, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Problem with "Night of the Living Alternate History"?
I just received a message from G greg e, which states that two users (I believe Lord Finnius and Harvester360) have joined his map game have placed themselves in his characters.

Sorry to say, but I know nothing about map games, so I don't believe I am the right person for this issue. Though what I believe he is concerned about is that these two may be the same person (due to the similar edits).

Not too sure what to make of this. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:00, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Taken care of. Lordganon (talk) 14:06, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Maruku2009
Apparently he's done it before, now he is doing it again. He's annoying people in general and commenting about how Video game ATLs are not proper ATLs. Could this please be looked into? Me'n Scraw'n DocEv talked to him about it and he says we are harassing him. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:29, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ya beat me to it.

22:54, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

He also put Pepin's Venice up for adoption without LurkerLordB's permission (though Imp has reverted that back now).

Doctor Evulz (talk) 23:04, April 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've noticed that a lot of trolling and vandalism has recently emerged from a user named Maruku2009. He appears to be editing the timelines of other people, and putting them up for adoption. He also appears to have a hatred of video games, claiming they're not a part of history, as seen on this forum post: . Thought I'd bring this to your attention so that the proper authorities can deal with him/her.
 * Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 00:43, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Seems like harassment to me. Since LG has already blocked him before, I upped it and have blocked him for a week. Also, it appears that he didn't put Pepin's Venice for adoption (Lurker did that himself in 2011). I have also reverted that page to the version prior to his edits. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:06, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Extended his block to a month - the number of types of problems warrants it, I think.

Nuke is right - Lurk put that up for adoption himself.

I actually think that he just likes video games to the point where he thinks it "wrong" to "mess" with them in that manner. The guy seems to have founded a few such wikis, even.

Lordganon (talk) 10:32, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

wiki contributer 85.164.111.101
i dont think a title like Eyad likes cock is allowed  DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 19:54, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

And the page just says he is a gay f***ing f*gg*tt Local (talk)

can someone ban him and delete it DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 20:11, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

It's currently been added for deletion. Mscoree (talk) 00:44, April 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have removed the article and have banned the user for a week. If he continues afterwards, we'll block him longer. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:58, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Potential sockpuppets?
Seeing that recent nomination for Mscoree to be a constable editor, I looked at the nominators profiles as I hadn't seen them before. Based on their profiles I found the following:
 * Edboy452: Edits - 322 ~ Joined Wiki on March 29, 2013
 * RazorFangZ14: Edits - 40 ~ Joined Wiki on March 28, 2013
 * NickTEHbau5: Edits - 7 ~ Joined Wiki on March 29, 2013
 * Jdplayer10: Edits - 11 ~ Joined Wiki on March 29, 2013

There limited edits have been almost entirely to the Night of the Living Alternate History‎ too.

Hence I think they may be sockpuppets, but they do have slightly different "My favourite wikis" sections. While they all use Alt. Hist. Wiki, they do differ slightly in favourite wikis, so perhaps they're just friends from these other wikis. Anyway the favourite wiki distribution is as follows:
 * Alternative History: Edboy452, RazorFangZ14, NickTEHbau5 & Jdplayer10
 * GeekCraft Wiki: Edboy452 & NickTEHbau5
 * Therealzombieroleplay Wiki: RazorFangZ14 & NickTEHbau5
 * Future: Edboy452

Anyone who plays that map game know how these players regularly interact in game? Over-friendliness between them would be another indicator that they're sockpuppets. I'm looking at Crim, Yank, Kogasa or Imp as you guys are TSPTF & play the game.

They may just know each other in real life or from other wikis, but I still find this situation suspicious regardless. I think further investigation is required. Ip check 'em? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:59, April 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I just joined a turn ago, I have no indication on this matter. Sorry, Von. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:26, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sent them a note before I even saw this, lol. Should get a response Monday or Tuesday. Lordganon (talk) 03:11, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

I know these people from other wikis and such. Them, and I others, I believe, are on my campus, and therefore have the same IP's sometimes. All of these players have however posted from different IP's in the past. Mscoree (talk) 20:57, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

As I said on the NotLAH talk page, the following people are people I know or are on my campus. For the most part these people have all posted from separate IP's before.
 * Mscoree
 * Geekman7473
 * Ayernam
 * UDie2day
 * Edboy452
 * RazorFangZ14
 * NickTEHbau5
 * JDplayer10
 * Daultz
 * Tr0llis
 * This IP: 173.72.110.90

Mscoree (talk) 01:57, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppets
I have reason to suspect that these two users are sockpuppets. I believe that Alexlee8991 may be controlling Allenrobinson. He has currently five edits, all of which on Night of the Living Alternate History, and all his edits appear to be in Alexlee's favor. After war broke out between Chine (Alexlee) and Tibet, Allenrobinson joined and has basically surrendered to the Chinese for no reason. Other than that he has few turns. If an admin could check their IP that would be much appreciated. Mscoree (talk) 12:45, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Request sent to wikia. Lordganon (talk) 04:20, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia confirms them to be the same IP. Both accounts have now been blocked for sockpuppeting, never to return. Lordganon (talk) 11:10, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if Ninjasvswarriors is also related to Alexlee8991. Ninjasvswarriors joined the Althistory Wiki one day after Alexlee8991 was banned, has rather similar editing habits and just revised an article created by the latter. --NFSreloaded (talk) 13:50, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Timelines (XXX)
After a few months, I have, I think, finally cleaned up all the Timelines (XXX)s besides the ones like Timelines (Superpowers) that are part of a specific ATL. Here's the list of all the cleaned out ones:
 * ]
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 * ]
 * ]
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I remember WWI and WWII took an especially long time lol. But anyways, are there any I missed? I can't find any, but still...

Thanks. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 14:05, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

I think that's all of the ones with categories. Should I run across more - and I bet there are some without the categories actually "made" - I'll deal with them. Good Work, Pita. Lordganon (talk) 14:25, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm glad I could help. If I stumble across any others I'll clean them up too. Looks like Timeline Category Cleanup Project is finished. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 21:10, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Jontiben2
I have informed Jontiben2 about not adding duplications. Today he uploaded two duplicates (making this his second offense). I noted him about this (giving him the correct file links). He appears to have ignored my warnings and re-uploaded both files. I have blocked him for 24 hours. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:48, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Emperor Romanus
I have received word from several people that Emperor Romanus is sockpuppeting as User:Harvester360 and User:Lord Finnius. These three have also had very similar editing habits, with Finnius and Harvestor joining to aid Romanus in NotLAH, and when Romanus quit, they did too. He also has apparently used these accounts on the Map Game wiki and the Ultimate Map Game wiki. Mscoree (talk) 21:28, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Any other proof? Lordganon (talk) 09:53, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Redirects
I have a question for an administrators or moderators on this site. On this page's infobox, when you click on king it automatically names the page incorrectly. I renamed the page correctly, and filled the page with information, only to have it deleted. I asked Lordganon for an explanation and help on correctly renaming/redirecting the page, but he instead ignored my several messages and kept deleting the pages. Finally he responded by temporarily banning me. I don't want my pages to be deleted, and I don't want to be banned, so I now ask here, what is the correct way to fix this? Mscoree (talk) 14:31, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * From what I have been able to deduced, it appears to be two minor syntax errors. The template NationInfo has a complex code to make it easier for new users to use.


 * The first is that you wrote the wrong timeline. You wrote "Battle for Earth Strikes Back! (Map Game)," while the timeline you want is "(Battle for Earth: Prime)." Because of the coding this infobox uses, it marked any redirects within the infobox as the timeline you wrote (not the one you wanted).


 * The second error is that you labeled the common name of your country as "Meridian," while the page you want clearly calls it "Meridian Consul."


 * In short, you got "List of Kings of Meridian (Battle for Earth Strikes Back! (Map Game))" and not "List of Kings of the Meridian Consul (Battle for Earth: Prime)." Luckily, there is a simple way to fix this, and I will fix it for you (so it should be solved by the time you read this).


 * As for the tiff you and LG are getting into, the complexity of your timeline and the use of distinctive naming differences between your main page and the subsequent ones will lead to more issues in the long run. The primary purpose for a redirect is to redirect a common alternative to the correct page, not to solve an issue that (from the looks of it) violates site rules. You and LG will have to come to a conclusion soon, and negativity will not go anywhere. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:49, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with Nuke on this one, mate. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:56, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Alright thanks for the claification. I'll try to do this in the future. Mscoree (talk) 04:30, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Wow. Ms did not say any of that to me. More importantly, almost none of the redirects in question had anything to do with what he claims. Somehow, not surprised. Lordganon (talk) 05:06, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Vandal
The Anonyimous Contributor  72.64.67.92 has vandalised several pages. I have reverted some (Sorry if I'm not supposed to) but they might have done more Local (talk)

They wrote this: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Easternized_World?oldid=770809

This person also vandalized a few of the Two Americas timeline.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 20:29, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought I got those Local (talk)

His page says he is blocked, so how is he posting Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 20:31, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

It's fine, I fixed them. And yes, I think you can undo edits by vandals, unless I am mistaken. Not too sure on the blocked thing...

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 20:32, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

No, no. Seiga just blocked him. :P Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:34, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Is it normal that non admins can revert edits? Local (talk)

I just did it again, it wasn't a fluke, why is that possible? Local (talk)


 * I'm sure LG will give him a permanent block when he gets here, nothing but a vandal. As to Local, thank you for helping out. As far as I am aware of, it shouldn't be anything but helpful to revert vandalized pages (grammatical corrections are also welcomed). The only think you can't do is vandalize (pretty straight forward) or expand on a page without the approval of the caretaker.


 * As for whether it is normal that non-admins do admin-esque work, I can't say. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I certainly wouldn't frown on it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:55, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Everyone can undo, but rollbacks/admins/bureaucrats can rollback, skipping the editing page.
 * 05:06, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Local, you didn't "revert" the vandalism - you went in, edited, and fixed it. All you can do is either that or using the "undo" feature. Only admins can use the "revert" feature.

That being said, well done with fixing it.

As to the block itself, that was proper. No need to use a permanent block on such anons, as they almost never come back. If they do, then we nail'em.

Lordganon (talk) 05:02, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Alternate History Memes??
Does anybody know the purpose of "Alternate History Memes"? This is not a meme site, and they dozens of files recently uploaded seem to serve no purpose aside from being memes.

Given the broadness used by Mscoree and OreoToast555 for the page in question, and the fact that they seem to show no present purpose, I would like to propose the deletion of this page and the many uploads related to it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:25, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

We could rename it to NotLAH memes, as it is essentially only notlah  OreoToast555(Talk) 04:31, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

These pictures are a funny explanation of the history of the NotLAH map game. These simple sentences chronicle the history, blood, sweat, and tears, and even, the very souls of the people involved. Where were you on the day of the Sealand Tea Party? An event of such magnitude, it started a near global war. What about the 11 September 1979 attacks on the Russian airport? These pictures explain what it was like. These pictures look through the ancient looking glass, and into the spirit of humanity itself. These are the voyages of the NotLAH enterprise. To boldly meme where no one has gone before. Mscoree (talk) 04:34, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

and you noticed he is STILL UPLOADING THEM after being asked not to  Wingman1 04:48, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

These memes are all in good fun. Please don't take offense to any of them. Mscoree (talk) 04:49, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

You was asked very nicely to stop, you are risking a block or a ban! Wingman1 04:52, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Just make it part of the NotLAH universe.

04:54, July 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have blocked both Mscoree and the page in question for three days (he has been warned by both LG and me about his attitude). I still see no point in keeping this page, irregardless of whether it is timeline oriented or not, and Mscoree's lack of reasoning at the present confirm my reasoning. I will wait for LG to look at the situation before any decision is made. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 05:07, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Slow down there, everyone. This was made in jest, a joke. This isn't worth a ban. Sure, it'd be better suited as a blog page, but there's no need to delete everything. Can't it be renamed to 'User:Mscoree/Memes' or something? Let's be reasonable here. Doctor Evulz (talk) 05:27, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I kinda thought it was funny, but I understand how someone could get offended. My suggestion (if it matters for anything) is to let the page stay as a community page or something, and if a user uploads something that is offensive to a specific person, then that person can take down what's offensive.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 11:07, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Erm hello. What on earth, a block for a page not even remotely offensive to anyone? I understand some users might not like their username to be present for the memes, and that can be fixed, but why would you block that page? The wiki needs to have pages like this, where users can laugh at the pictures. Now, I will rename the page for now, but I do not want a page such as that deleted. The game has done surprisingly well, better than anyone in the map gaming community expected, and is well on the way to finishing - a rare feat.

Therefore, these memes should be allowed as they go accuratrely demonstrate nations' actions, albiet in a funny manner. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:13, July 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would also like to shorten Mscoree's block, so that we can give him a chance to defend his works rather than us just assuming things, things which might not be true at all. His talkpage can now be edited by himself. Lets see what he has to say for himself. Plus, I agree it was not exactly the smartest thing to make a meme which disrespected Nuke. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:24, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Why is it I asked nicely to leave the page alone, and Imperium goes and alters not only the page, but my block on Mscoree? I am extremely disappointed, and have reverted Imperium's "help". --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:45, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'm with MP. Imp, that was a bit un-admin-ish of you, IMO.

17:41, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Alright everybody calm the Fu*k down. He posted memes about his map game. Maybe it should be renamed, and if there is one you find offensive, talk to Mscoree and we will see from there. Somehow He got banned and the page is going to die thpough, anyone think thtat is kinda stupid to have this huge deal over it.Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 17:46, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I found it funny, but let me say that you can't have a discussion about a page's problems if you block the prepertrators. I'd lock the page and we discuss it until we come up with a solution - a discussion in which all parties can be involved. As for my own opinion on the page, I think it should be more of a blog post type thing and I can see how the page could offend someone - which shouldn't be done, the stuff about Nuke was out of line. TBH I was a bit upset there was nothing about Austria-Germany on that page lol, I always find it interesting to hear someone talk about me. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:44, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I chuckled at some of them. That's worth shortening the ban. Also, I can't believe what a fit people are throwing at these things. CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 15:41, July 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I feel I should clarify, because many appear to be getting the wrong message. I informed the two users (OreoToaster555 and Mscoree) that I have made a discussion about their page and uploads (which I clearly state I opposed), and asked them politely to not continue working on the page until the issue can reach a consensus and wait until LG can take a look at it. Mscoree chose to ignore my request, and began uploading new material. Two of these were directed at me, which I took as him spiting my discussion. Given that he was previously blocked by LG days prior for harassment on him (which lasted for 24 hours), I extended a new block for three days, and explained to him why I did so. It was then I decided to protect the page in discussion for three days (to ensure no further additions).


 * The following day, ImperiumGuy (who has expressed his support for both Mscoree and the page) took it upon himself to work on the page I blocked by moving the page and removing some images, and unblocked Mscoree (only to then re-block him for a shorten time and giving him an ultimatum on how to keep the page). I then reverted the page, re-blocked Mscoree for three days, and asked Imperium why he did so (given the answer that he supported both and would now stay out of the issue). Now we are here.


 * I still oppose this idea on the grounds that I see this site as a serious place for writers and artists to work on their projects, not ICHC. Given the current consensus, it most likely will not be deleted, but it will have to be altered greatly. I will remove the files on me once LG takes a look at them, and Mscoree will not have his block altered in any manner. Nothing more will be done until LG can take a look at this. So I hope this clears up a few misunderstandings. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:09, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Nuke, well done.

Imp, not well done. That was improper, at best. You do not mess with things like that done by the other admins. It's a question of maintaining authority and mutual respect, along with the fact that it was without question a blockable offense. Don't do anything like that again.

Ms ignored a direct warning and did so in one of the most offensive ways he could have done so. Quite frankly, I'd have blocked him for a longer period of time. Nuke made his call, and we will stick with that, however.

The page itself as originally created was something not allowed on this wiki. Our rules are rather clear on that.

Quite frankly, unless something like that is created as a section of a user page, it is not allowed on here. Much of what is there is, quite frankly, offensive or attacking other users, which would not be allowed on a user page, either.

Considering all things, I will be adding a deletion note to the page in question, and deleting all of the offensive images. Ms can make a section of his user area for what is left, but I will not be making it for him.

Lordganon (talk) 05:18, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

I apologize greatly to anyone offended by these images, particularly the user Nuclear Vacuum. I also apologize for not partaking much in the mutual conversation to fix this matter while I was blocked. Thank you to everyone who supported me, and I’m glad I was the only casualty of this event.

Originally several people (names withheld to protect their real-world safety and identities) and I were in the live chat and were discussing certain matters in NotLAH, when I phrased sometime in the style of a meme. This was met by the response, “that should be a meme,” so we started making them. I uploaded a few, following Oreotoast, as did some other people. I was then contacted by Nuclear Vacuum, who instructed me to explain myself and stop for the time being, so I left the last batch uploading (in multiple tabs) and left a response to Nuclear Vacuum. As instructed/foreseen by bystander Wingman1, Nuclear Vacuum then banned me, citing that “he has been warned by both LG and me about his attitude”. To clarify, I am truly sorry for the offensive images, particularly the ones quoting/exaggerating/harassing/intimidating/bullying Nuclear Vacuum, which I believe crossed the line a bit. I was a bit saddened that I couldn't then engage in the conversation since I was banned. If you take note at the images logs, the frequency of uploads did decrease, but that is besides the point.

I apologize for not following Nuclear Vacuum’s direct order, in which he stated, “I request that you do not upload any new files until it has been resolved.” I think I was just confused because I thought the situation was prematurely resolved. When Lordganon arrived he helped to clarify the matter, stating it was “without question a blockable offense”, (which for the record I find strange since so many people questioned it; enough to reach the top five hot spots on the wiki). I will personally refresh myself on the rules since, “The page itself as originally created was something not allowed on this wiki. Our rules are rather clear on that”, and I was not aware. (Control + F searches have come up inconclusive).

I think the most pressing matter is the images deleted. Lordganon took the liberty of deleting twelve images, including one about Oreo that was made by Oreo, one that just said “Hail Marius”, which is a common phrase on the live chat, and several others. Most importantly, you deleted all the user ones, except one user. I personally will not stand for singling out a particular user, which where I live is a criminal offense in some situations. This offensive, direct insult at the particular user left intentionally intact, while the others removed? I can understand some, such as the vulgar and inappropriate attempt at humor directed at one, E Greg E, that read, “Heyo. Heyo Woot Woot Heyo,” but not the ones about Mscoree?

Off topic, but to address my current constable campaign, and the response that I’ve been blocked too recently/frequently to be a constable. I respect everyone’s votes and opinions, but I’d like to add something. Was Martin Luther King Jr. arrested too many times to be a civil rights leader, or was Nelson Mandela arrested for too long to be president of South Africa? I guess we’ll soon see. Thanks for reading my response thing, and again, I apologize for hurting the feelings of and disobeying Nuclear Vacuum, and for harassing Lordganon. (I assume they were referring to my questions about redirects. I’m somewhat afraid to ask questions now, if that is of any consolation).

Also on the note of redirects, from what I understand, redirects are allowed if they point a commonly used name to the correct article. Recently Lordganon deleted the Southwest League page because the only content was #REDIRECT North American League (Night of the Living Alternate History Map Game). This should be allowed since the organization was called the Southwest League until recently, and now there’s a bunch of broken links all over the place. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 18:13, July 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I will admit I was very surprised to see your response, and I greatly thank you for your apology. Also for the record, I did not block you because you ignored my request to stop uploading, I blocked you because of your offensive uploads on me (this was the "blockable offense" LG was talking about). Had you not uploaded those two files, I would've simply messaged you again asking you to stop (only blocking you had you continued to ignore me). I also find it too coincidental that you got my message while in the middle of posting files you made previously on the same user who just stated they did not like your meme page (not buying it).


 * You will have to talk with LG about the images he removed (because I was not part of their actual removal). If the users represented in those files support what was on it (and they don't have profanity on them), then I will be willing to revert them for you, but you are still responsible for moving them to a new page. As for your new redirect issue, this may stem from the fact that it is no longer canonized. If you are no longer using that article name in the timeline, there is no need to have a redirect for it. You can always go and rename all the links one by one (that's what I do, and there doesn't appear to be many), but you and LG will have to discuss this if you don't like this idea. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:20, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

You cannot blame being blocked for "not participating" in conversation. You failed to listen, so you lost that right while blocked. Simple.

After being warned to stop, you continued to upload the pictures. In an itself, not an immediately blockable offense, as Nuke has noted - but the manner in which you did it? Without question that was. You went out of your way to attack an administrator, not long after being warned to stop by that person. As I have noted before, had I seen it before Nuke did, you would have been blocked for a heck of a lot longer than that. Consider yourself lucky.

That page had barely anything to do with AH, and even more so, was not a timeline or having to do with one. Our rules are very explicit about such things - i.e. not allowing them. And rather than stop and allow a ruling, or whatnot, when asked, you continued to do it and went out of your way to insult an admin after being warned by them.

As already noted, the user ones went against our rules. And don't complain about the ones you put up about yourself. Not only are they not against the rules, but they're more or less just nonsense. That you would even think about complaining about images you put up yourself like that, about yourself, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

There is nothing "pressing" about that, not even remotely.

That you being blocked is a good reason to prevent you being a constable is the opinion of one of the users. They are entitled to it. I doubt it will be the primary reason for people voting "no," but it will be one - just like it was a reason for people to vote against or not support those two men.

I don't buy for a second that those images about Nuke were being uploaded while he was warning you.

You didn't "ask questions" in the first place.

Almost of of those redirects are because someone misspelled something, and it got perpetuated. That is when you fix it. After the second or third one is put in because of such mistakes, then it is without question a problem. Same applies for when something changes. Fix the links, simple.

And, for the record, Ms, don't lie to us.

Lordganon (talk) 06:36, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

For the record, the link is to Lordganon's impeachment trial, in which he wrote out a really long response. Let's try to be mature here, Lordganon, and not censor people who make you look bad. Mscoree (talk) 21:42, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Wow. That was below the belt. And you do know that LG won that vote resoundingly, right?

Look, I may not be his biggest fan (our arguments make the SALT II talks look like a couple of friends joking around) but frankly speaking, he's like the backbone of this wiki.

I'm not trying to make a point by putting that link. I linked it to show the really long response. The only reason I bring it up is becasue Lordganon decided to censor ir. Mscoree (talk) 15:41, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

How'd he censor it? The link still works, the page you are refering to is still there...

I ignored the insult that you did there before, Ms - hoped that removing it would work and not cause a ruckus or embarrassment to you. Apparently, not. I have removed it again.

Crossing something out doesn't erase the insult, fyi. It's like saying something insulting followed by "no offense." Doesn't change what you said/wrote.

Wish I could say I was surprised.

Lordganon (talk) 09:29, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Map Contest
For anyone who hasn't heard, I'm starting a 'Map Contest'. For details, go to my blog. I didn't know if I needed permission to create a page for it, so I'm asking, regardless, just to run it by you first. Thanks. CourageousLife (talk) 18:38, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Featured Alternate Histories
I noticed that someone nominated Night of the Living Alternate History (Map Game) for featured alternate history. Are map games allowed to be featured alternate histories? It follows all the guidelines, so I don't see why not. Mscoree (talk) 00:55, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

In theory, they are not barred. However... realistically, they aren't going to meet the basic requirements and follow the guidelines. That one definitely does not. Lordganon (talk) 06:06, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Anon Troll
I was reading a Notlah article and found This... I undid the edit when I saw it...

Dealt with. 3 days. Any admin feeling it is too short or long can edit the block span. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:12, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion of Lordganon - 12/07/2013
"Prologue: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#Hey, written by Imp. "

We, the People of the Alternate History Wiki, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish wiki Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence of wiki rights, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this declaration of reform.

'Here is a list of reasons of why Lordganon, an administrator of the Alternate History Wikia needs to change his current ways abruptly, or be impeached. These reasons are prevalent in the categories of attitude, inability to confront user’s about their works, deletion policy, and aggressiveness. These qualities need to be changed in order for Lordganon to be respected as an Admin. '

The following is Co Written by those in favor of Lordganon’s immediate change


 * Approaches users in an unfriendly manner that shows an to inability to confront a user calmly and respectfully. (http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:119090)
 * Displays an unfriendly, unhelpful attitude toward users not appropriate for administrators on a site where he is expected to interact with users in the manner he does or with ego that appears in his writing.
 * Maintains a delete first, ask later M.O. that leaves newer users confused (See Here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF#Alternate_History_Memes.3F.3F, his response, followed by Mscoree’s.).
 * Feels the need to talk as condescending as possible, using frequent italics, bold, and page breaks, leaving reads uncomfortable and ashamed. His writes to users uses a know-it-all attitude, in which even if a user replies with a valid well-researched point, he continues to deny whatever the user says. His incredibly long responses often leave a user intimidated and provoke further hostile argument. (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:120130. Long responses here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF/Archive_2#Response)
 * Is extremely unhelpful to new users, and can only say things are implausible, without presenting reasoning to convince the user. This also applies to explaining what needs changed on a timeline to remove the “ASB” label. (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#RT_II)
 * Deletes pages without informing the user, when asked about returning page, refusing to even assist in regathering the content, even when user states the page was a work in progress.
 * Imposing on the democratic mode of the wiki. Mainly due to aggressive “What I say goes” mentality.
 * Biased against other users in authority. Mainly appears to disregard their opinions in favor of his own. This is also seen in his treatment of users on their talk page and regard to their content.
 * Censorship of user opinions and direct changing of user’s own words including deleting a former link to a previous impeachment attempt (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alternative_History_talk%3ATSPTF&diff=774993&oldid=774985)
 * He cares more for admins than non-admins, as seen in the memes, where he only defended nuke.
 * Claims that people are in ignorance of the rules when he is insulted, and that it is obvious, despite that not always being true.
 * Refuses to explain rules and policies not clearly identified in the Wiki rules to new users before acting on them. When asked follow-up questions, has a “What I say goes” condescending tone in his writing. Meanwhile, NuclearVaccuum’s policy of warning users (ie. in file uploading policy) is much more apt.

We ask that Lordganon be given what the users see as apt time to change his attitude, deletion M.O., and aggressiveness toward new users, admins, and all Althistorians alike.We appreciate Lordganon’s contributions to the wiki (TL’s and administration alike), but do not appreciate the imposing manner in which he executes administrative authorities and duties.

Due to this we ask Lordganon to change his ways, as we do not want to lose his contributions.

We are prepared to protect our rights, as outline here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History:Conventions_in_use_in_this_wiki, and will defend this document from vandalizing and censorship.

User Opinions

I personally do believe that Lordganon has done a great deal of good work on this wiki, and I give credit where it is due. We simply ask for reformation, and the chance to have our voices heard. I personally was not very fond of the way he did things, and it nearly made me (and others) quit when we were first joining. He is notorious for reading every single page on the wiki, but don’t be fooled, this is to right short, unconstructive comments about them (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Holy_Roman_Empire_(Night_of_the_Living_Alternate_History_Map_Game) and http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#HRE). He’s shown hostility against me for simple stuff. He accused me of harassing him for asking him about redirects, and left me still unsure the correct procedure (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#Redirects). Mscoree (talk) 23:48, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Lordganon was once a really helpful user. All he tends to do now is edit to Doomsday:1983 and tell people that their timelines are Alien Space Bats-~TOB

Lordganon has made great contributions to this wiki and has maintained order and has kept this wiki in great quality. However his aggressive behaviour, biased opinions, and censorship is not acceptable. I suggest a temporary demotion-

Lordganon’s TL’s and administration work are among the best I’ve seen, however the manner that he approaches it in is unnecessary, and does not reference any works that could be used to the user’s advantage.

When I first joined the wiki, Lordganon immediately deleted one of my articles to do with the popular map game NotLAH. I figured this would be the experience of the wiki - I write a page, if its not substantial by the time I finalized my first update, it would be deleted. Luckily this is not true. However, Lordganon’s pomp ego and imprudence honestly would’ve scared me off if it had not been for more helpful admins such as Imp and Von, and other users such as UglyTurtle, Sine de Gloriem, and Wegscuba. When i asked about the article’s deletion, discovering I had improperly named it, thanks to Lordganon’s post - which also included how the information I had already typed had no relation to the timeline it was associated whatsoever - I asked him to help me recover my content, he ignored my request and follow up. I admire Lorganon’s historical knowledge and timeline work, his manner in approaching me was completely rude and insufficient in actual advice and assistance. His attitude and ego need to be checked at the door when he logs in to Althist for him to regain respect and admiration he once deserved.

I remember, many moons ago, my friend, Sasafred and I created a TL named the McDonalds Empire. While it was ultra ASB, it was good fun for about 30 minutes. Then LG showed up, and ranted about how it was spam, and how he was going to delete it. I moved it to another wiki, and he deleted it. While I understand his reasons, I still am mad at how he rained on our parade. Perhaps if he approached us in a more friendly manner, I'd have more respect for him. Bfoxius (talk) 23:55, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

When I first saw this wiki I was like so cool then I regestered and made my first timeline, one I started before I joined the wiki. I put it up and sunddly ASB. I felt this thing in my gut like is that bad, am I not welcome? Then I moved on to 1983: Doomsday. I made my first 1983:Doomsday articel American Kingdom. As soon as I made that it was suddly 'obs' i have aske Lordgragon multiple times and he will not tell me why. The olnly reason why it could be 'Obs' is because it has '''Illagitment claims. '''Lordragon needs to understand the people of the wiki. Octivian Marius (talk) 18:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

P.S McDOnalds Empire is FUNNY.

Infraction Evidence Summary Please post all links here, even if they are shown elsewhere in this document.
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alternative_History_talk%3ATSPTF&diff=774993&oldid=774985
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:119090
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Holy_Roman_Empire_(Night_of_the_Living_Alternate_History_Map_Game)
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#HRE
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#Redirects
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#RT_II
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:120130 8. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF/Archive_2#Response
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF#Alternate_History_Memes.3F.3F
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lordganon
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#Hey
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/American_Kingdom_(1983:_Doomsday)?s=wldiff&diff=0&oldid=769253

Published on 12/07/2013

Signatures

 * Mscoree (talk) 23:48, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * canada2hy.jpg Hypothetical Alberta Blue Ensign.svg OreoToast555(Talk) 23:59, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 00:05, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bfoxius (talk) 00:05, July 13, 2013 (UTC) I approve of a reformation of LG's behaviour but it is too soon for a demotion of his rights.
 * Warman555
 * G greg e (talk) 00:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC) " I approve of this and ask LG to make efforts to change, however, enough time must pass before reevauluation or any possible impeachment"
 * Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:28, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Octivian Marius (talk) 17:53, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Aternix (talk) 06:19, August 25, 2013 (UTC) I do think that the way he treats people isn't acceptable, even at his position. Nobody should be looked down on, and to keep this wiki a lively and well respected place, I think that this is the right thing to do.
 * Darwin is God (talk) 06:50, August 25, 2013 (UTC) From all that I've seen I believe that LG is a good person but just needs to learn that sometimes you have to keep your mouth shut, however i don't think we need to take huge action.

Wasn't this resolved this does not need to be brough back up to the forefront. LG does good work and has my respect for the prompt and professional way he responded. Professionalism seems to be a thing he values and being blunt is sometimes a consequence. This matter has been closed for awhile now and if rather not see it brought back up because of a minor issue. This is not my signature of approval for LGs removal or demotion I am merely stating my opinion --&#35;LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 06:54, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Oh, like we haven't seen this before...

I do agree that LG can at times be a blunt with his remarks, but it is true that he is of enormous help to the wiki. Perhaps he has stepped down a little (can't make that call, since it was before my time), but he still is a valued member and not worth removing or demoting.

And even if you get a majority of the wiki to support you, what are you going to do? He's the head mod of the wiki and has most of the TSPTF and the community on his side.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 23:59, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * The point is not to demote him or remove any respect from him. The point of this to let LG know he needs to change how he treats groups of users on this wiki. G greg e (talk) 04:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Wait a second. TOB hasn't edited this, I check the history. SO WHY IS HIS SIGNATURE ON ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS?

TOB? What?

Any for the record, LG does help with getting back lost data from deleted pages. I've seen him do it before, and he's even done it for my sandbox when I was relatively new. Not sure if anyone remembers or cares about that, but I thought it would be helpful.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 00:04, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

This isn't an impeachment. The rules state that the issue must be discussed here so that it can be potentially fixed. Mscoree (talk) 00:07, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

TOB; The old baby

As I thought. In fact, Ms added TOB's sig. [ [1]] If you scroll down to the User opinions part of the page, you can see that Ms added that sig. It may be that TOB said something similar elsewhere, but in that case Ms should have noted that underneath.

We wrote this together before I posted it. All parts marked with others' signatures is the part they themselves wrote. Mscoree (talk) 00:10, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah i was really tires, had a long day, and i posted now, so hi everybod :D Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:30, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

I sincerely doubt that this will accomplish what it is supposed to do. And trying something like this won't make LG less biased towards certain people, if you catch my meaning.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 00:12, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * How will it not. They've taken appropriate steps to notify him of the problem at hand, and the changes they would like. It is up to LG to make a honorable attempt to change and recongnize the problem at hand in a civil and appropriate mannor. G greg e (talk) 04:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * It won't do anything because even though LG can be brusque, he won't give in to this and practically the entire wiki will refuse to have him impeached.
 * I at least am not asking to impeach LG - and believe currently no one is, i am asking him to recognize how he comes off in his tone writing and helpfulness and attempt to make a change. I want that to be clear to you as you continue to ignore that. G greg e (talk) 17:41, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ok, if that was what you were trying to do you'd message him. But anyway, I believe damn near every user on this wiki has informed LG how he comes off, and guess what? It doesn't really help. Do what the rest of us do and either live with it or grow a pair and argue till hell freezes over. (jk, the lattter one does tend to end up in large scale edit wars). We don't ignore, the problem is that there's nothing we can do. For everything LG does that pisses the rest of us off, he does ten things we barely notice but actually help us massively. And this is the follow up to impeachment, so if you don't want him impeached, then what the hell are you doing?
 * Seriously, its like you didnt even even read what was written.  What "the hell" i am doing is asking him to try to make a change, because you are correct, there is nothing you or I can really do about it except ask him to make a change, and hope that he makes an effort. Also as stated there was a prologue to this written on his wall. Again I recognize LG's importance and do not want him impeached, but I do want him to attempt to make an effort to be 'nicer' to users  G greg e (talk) 05:59, July 18, 2013 (UTC) I also understand the amount of work LG and others do, and would like to take the time to thank them here. While they do deal with rude and condescending people everyday, amoung trolls, vandilism, and other things, it is still important to maintain a "smile on your face" whenever you can. Nevertheless, Best Regards, G greg e (talk) 06:03, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I did read what is written. But, you still haven't answered the question. If you don't want to impeach LG then why have you started the required stages to impeachment? That's like buying a car then claiming you don't want to drive. IF YOU WANTED TO GET HIM TO CHANGE, YOU WOULD HAVE TALKED TO HIM. You don't put a gun to someone's head and then ask politely. And by the way, LG isn't generally rude, he's just brusque. He'll tell you something is ASB. Want to know why it's ASB? Take the time to efffing ask him. That's what I do and it always works.

Trying is right. Attempting to impeach LG didn't work last time, it probably won't this time. While I agree that LG could be nicer, frankly, he is who he is, and without him, this wiki would be a much sadder place. All this will do is stir up the wiki. Don't do this.

I'm with MP and Guns so far.

00:17, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

I personally think Lordganon does a great job for the wiki and i admire and respect his work. However, his display of opinion and attitute towards others is not that of which an admin's should be. G greg e (talk) 00:21, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh boy, this again. You guys hype up how 'villainous' LG is, his bluntness becomes unkindness, his proclamations of ASB become parade-raining, and his power becomes his tyranny. I'd like to see someone who has all of LG's responsibilities, someone who handles an enormous workload with punctuality, someone supposedly so dastardly that he/she still somehow has the support of so many editors that isn't a bit grumpy.

We've crossed the event horizon, however, and the only way we'll be through with this is to continue on our current course. So go on, have your trial, see where the alternate historians' opinions lie, have a vote, and let's bury this business again. You have my support, LG. Jazon Naparleon  (talk) 01:18, July 13, 2013
 * As I said before. This is not an impeachment nor a trial. There is no voting (on anything yet). We are discussing, as required here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History:Request_for_user_rights#Impeachment.

To whoever wrote the above. I recognize and thank LG for his support of the wiki and recognize at times that there may situations in which he is in a bad mood or is set off by something. I think that what is trying to be stated is that it has become too commonplace and that it is unsure if he recognizes the problems of how people perceive his actions. Once again, LG is respected and admired by many for his work, and for this i support him. The point is not to impeach or demote or even humiliate him in any wya, but rather inform him of the situation. Hopefully, it can be rectified and respect and admiration to LG from all members can restored. G greg e (talk) 04:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, event horizon hasn't been crossed yet. Let's be honest, LG neither will nor should concede to this, and that's when Ms gets the choice of impeaching LG or letting this whole thing die. Hopefully, he'll do the latter. If not, we'll go through the same thing we did a year and a half ago.

So, i highly doubt this will be an endless cycle. Oh and that reminds me, didnt he DELETE the file of his preveousimpeachment file, which is why we cant find it. Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:46, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Umm... BS, it's in the section marked Archive 2. His impeachment file that is. SERIOUSLY guys? Here Allow me to look for you. Happy? LG's impeachment file, and all. He didn't delete anything,

"When I first saw this wiki I was like so cool then I regestered and made my first timeline, one I started before I joined the wiki. I put it up and sunddly ASB. I felt this thing in my gut like is that bad, am I not welcome? Then I moved on to 1983: Doomsday. I made my first 1983:Doomsday articel American Kingdom. As soon as I made that it was suddly 'obs' i have aske Lordgragon multiple times and he will not tell me why. The olnly reason why it could be 'Obs' is because it has Illagitment claims. Lordragon needs to understand the people of the wiki.  Octivian Marius(talk) 18:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC)"
 * Oh, i didnt see that., nvm then Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 14:01, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * This file is linked in our declaration. Mscoree (talk) 15:46, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Right. And LG didn't delete anything...
 * Please read what we actually write before jumping on the bandwagon. He deleted this: http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alternative_History_talk%3ATSPTF&diff=774993&oldid=774985  Dean
 * I know what he deleted, but TOB thought that he deleted the entire file.
 * I am not signing, but I would like to say that if all I think is that he should try to consider what the user wants to happen in their timeline, and if the POD is ASB, tell them a better one, or tell them why the result is ASB. I do understand that he is very busy though. I definitely don't think he should be impeached, but that is just my opinion on this Mafia (talk)
 * Well, I mean, ASB doesn't mean that it's a bad TL, or even that it can't be featured. One of the best TLs on this wiki is majorly ASB. But while I do agree that he needs to be more patient, honestly, cut him some slack. He effectively checks up on every single new edit on this wiki. If he bothered to explain every single thing in exquisite detail, he'd be unable to do anything else.
 * I know, that is why I haven't signed Mafia (talk)
 * Guys, come on, let's all calm down. I get why you guys are angry, and though I agreed with LG over the memes, he is a little brusque. But this is totally uncalled for. End this, Ms. After all, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride then we'd see the day that nobody died!
 * I prefer Rockstar myself. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:23, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Have to agree. Woe be on the poor souls that are cursed with Nickelback in their ears! :D Just saying! 20:16, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I like Rockstar better too, but dammit, you try working that into a relevent sentence here.

I completely love this short passage. "Regestered" "sunddly" "articel" "obs" "olnly" "Lordgragon" "Illagitment claims" and "Lordragon" really lifted my spirits. Three cheers for Octivian! :D

05:36, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Well, you what they say: Idiotic posts with bad grammar will be flamed without warning! Someone find me Salnax. (We may need Eoguy, too)

And Octavian, shit, I saw your article and laughed so hard I fell off my chair. While you have the spirit, trust me, that was ASB. ASB isn't bad, so continue with the TL. It's just not accepted by 83DD.

For an in depth reason as to why it's ASB contact me, and I'll help you fix it.

But you can't blame LG for this, because both Ms and Yank chimed in with the exact same opinion.

Ok, so this is going nowhere and Ms has basically gone AWOL.

BTW, I'm just wondering if User:Oreotoast and User:OreoToast555 are the same. I mean, same name, practically same start date, the former immediately goes to AvA (which the latter also plays) and edits 15 times, all on that, before leaving.

Suspicions, anyone?

Vandalism
67.142.182.23   (Talk) vandalized the The Socialist World Republic article, by putting a new category 'Retarded' on it. Category: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Retarded Just letting you know. I reverted the edit though Mafia (talk)

I added the delete template to the category as well.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 01:58, July 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I deleted the category. Completely deletable. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:49, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Affiliation
I have an issue I would like to discuss with other members of the TSPTF. WikiBuilder1147 has asked me whether his wiki - Infinate Histories Wiki could become afflicted with us. I have asked him as to what this would mean.

I think it would be an interesting idea - however, I would like to know what other members think?

Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:13, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

He nailed the shit out of spelling of the word 'infinite' CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 19:17, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

It's tiny wiki. Seriously, 5 active users according to them (I read it on a recent blog post there). Instead of a merger, let's pull off a hostile takeover...

can you post a link to it? Wingman1 04:33, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Here: Have fun.

thanks, i will! ;)    Wingman1 05:21, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Don't know why that guy messaged you in particular, Imp. Meh.

Yeah, I figure the answer would be a no. This isn't a guy we know, his wiki is tiny, both in articles and users, and brand-new. Has the exact same content, more or less, as we have on here as well.

Really, they should have just started writing all that on here.

Lordganon (talk) 13:17, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

So... Hostile takeover?

Naw. Just something to have in mind if we hear from him again. Lordganon (talk) 12:23, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'll tell him about our desicion then. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:24, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Duplicate site
Look what I found...
 * Good find. Pay special attention to this run-on sentence on the frontpage: I hope this wiki will grow better and faster than its predecessor, Alternate History Wiki, which had started out fine but now has two many power hungry lieutenants and leaders that can and actually do ban someone just because they were being a little on the implausible side, or some people actually had more than one account, just because on froze one day and they wanted to still participate, created another one and got instantly banned for sockpuppetting when they weren't doing it on purpose, this wiki is meant to be the new Alternate History Wiki, and we hope that you will help us make it that. --NFSreloaded (talk) 09:26, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Same twits as usual doing that one, I see. Figures.

Meh. That thing is more or less entirely out of use. Not going to complain about it to Wikia, not worth the semi-arguing to get them to listen.

Lordganon (talk) 12:26, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the definition for what this is
This user: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:SmileDog.jpg has not edited, and has used this wiki for the chat, were they say stuff that makes no sense. I don't know why, or if this is allowed. Example:

SmileDog.jpg Revenge will be sweet! When the curse is complete! In smile of the night! She'll be SMILE!

and then leaves, so I reported it here Mafia (talk)

Seems very random. I've banned him from our chat. Lordganon (talk) 07:16, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

It's based on the Smile.jpg creepypasta. He's just trying to freaking people out. The Doctor is in... 16:10, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Amateur Mayanist
108.56.196.116. I know he is not doing anything wrong. But, he writing a lot of things in many talkpages about "correct term/spelling" in Mayan language. He is, however, remaining anonymous and still not joining this wiki. Also, it seems many of his suggestion about Mayan language still unverifiable without any existing dictionary that can prove his argument. What policies will be taken about this case? FirstStooge (talk) 19:44, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Seems harmless to me. Hell, that's pretty helpful CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 05:31, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

He hasn't done anything wrong at all. Why on earth would we do anything? Lordganon (talk) 09:24, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Since there is nothing wrong, I just want to invite him to join this wiki FirstStooge (talk) 09:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

If they want to join, they'll do it when they are ready =) Lordganon (talk) 10:18, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, LG. Someone like him (or maybe her) who understand about the languages such Mayan will become an advantage for this wiki. (^_^) FirstStooge (talk) 12:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Far as me and Red can tell, he doesn't understand anything - seems to be blowing smoke. Lordganon (talk) 06:51, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

What is "blowing smoke" mean? FirstStooge (talk) 13:08, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Blowing smoke means to say things that are not true in order to make yourself or something you are involved with seem better than it is. Basically Lordganon is saying that he thinks this person is incorrect or bluffing. Mscoree (talk) 01:42, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

So, is it means the person was inserting the false information? FirstStooge (talk) 02:54, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Not quite, Ms. What it means is that he's pretending to know something that he doesn't. Trying to look smarter and far more knowledgeable than they are.

Both myself and Red have looked into it, and can't find any of what he's saying. A few parts of it, what we can find even contradicts him. One of the early claims, I even found something that stated part of it was without question wrong.

No, Stooge, not that - it's pretty much just "advice" he is putting on talk pages. So far, at least. Been warned now that he tried messing with one of the pages, will block as needed past that.

Lordganon (talk) 12:04, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ne, arasseo, LG FirstStooge (talk) 14:31, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Clearly two accounts
I have informed AkiyamaIV about duplication for months now. I just blocked him for three days, and noticed a new user uploading the exact same files. This user is named W.Liberty, and it clearly is the same guy (the new user is also using the previous avatar used by first).

Regardless, both have made no edits aside from uploading files (reminding me of Sunlord and Gl78064), and not answering his talk page. Both are now duplicating files. Not sure if this is being a sockpuppet or simply the user wishing to "change his name." I will be blocking the new user for duplications. Any thoughts on a potential sockpuppet? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a pretty clear one. Trying to get around the block, too. I'll block them accordingly. Lordganon (talk) 06:52, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Groß-Deutschland
An anonymous user with IP 92.13.88.215 keep making the illegal edit on Groß-Deutschland timeline. Please the admins at least giving him warning, since he not listening to me for not doing that. And, please not banning him, he only need to get persuade to join this wiki and make his own TL, instead illegally editing other people's TL. FirstStooge (talk) 20:47, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

You left him a note, and he undid my notes twice. He's been blocked for a few days. Lordganon (talk) 06:54, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Sockpuppet?
I'm just wondering if User:Oreotoast and User:OreoToast555 are the same. I mean, same name, practically same start date, the former immediately goes to AvA (which the latter also plays) and edits 15 times, all on that, before leaving.

Suspicions, anyone?

Indeed. I'll leave him a note and ask. If he created a second account becuase he did not like the name of the first or something, the first one should be indefinately blocked and business continues as usual. From what I can gather, the first account has only been used for 15 edits, nothing major. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:55, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

After talking to him about it, he openly admitted that it was his account and he had forgotten his password, and therefore had created his second account. He even went on to say that his old account should be blocked as he only edits from his second account. The account has been blocked for 1000 years (or what we like to call infinite amount of time, lol) and I think that should be the end of it. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:29, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hacked
Capt.Stark1972 had his account hacked, and has changed to Ratc3333, so please block his old one Mafia (talk)

Done. Lordganon (talk) 06:26, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting
I think that Angreemann2, Prueman88, Lynxes21 are sockpuppets of Warman555, as they all joined 1 game, all allied, and all the user names are similar, and none of them know how to sign their name. Mafia (talk) 14:16, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I would ask LG to run an IP scan. Have you asked him [Warman] about this? I do hope he knows sockpuppeting is not allowed on this wiki. I presume he has been here long enough to know that. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:26, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I dont think Prueman88 is connected with Warman, as the writing styles are unique. However, there is clearly a connection in the joining time, games played, and edit style of Angreemann2 and Prueman88. Again though I could be wrong G greg e (talk) 14:36, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yup, Prueman88 is probably not Warman. Prue has a lot better spelling/grammar. I think Angreemann2 and Prueman88 are though. I'll talk to him about it. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 14:46, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

i dont have sockpuppets Warman555

Prueman88 says that Angreemann2 is his brother. Not sure what to make of this. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 20:02, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Give them some time and see if they develop any other favorite wikis? G greg e (talk) 20:36, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Can't prove the two aren't brothers.

Wikia's changed their policy for an IP check - the potential sockpuppetting violating rules isn't good enough anymore. They have to be trying to use it to their advantage in some form.

Have these guys done that?

Lordganon (talk) 10:14, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well I doubt there's a connection between Angreemann2/Prueman88 and Lynxes21, since Lynxes 21 is Sweden. Prueman's Colombia and Angreeann's Mexico. They have signed an alliance/mutual defense pact but that could be because they are brothers... they haven't explicitly tried to do something to their each other yet, but I'll keep an eye on them. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 12:41, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Second they start aiding each other too much, let me know. Lordganon (talk) 10:51, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Chat mod issues
I think we need chat mods cause the fights on chat and offinsive jokes and spaming and continued cussing. Warman555

Yeah I think we could also do with some more policing of the chat, it can get rather insulting... VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:12, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

we need chat mods so ill be chat police  leader Warman555

We have chat mods. They get on fairly frequently. The Doctor is in... 20:45, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Erm *cough* I just try to be lenient *cough*.

If you have a problem with what happens, I'll be strict. Chat is meant to be a place to let your hair down. If anyone gets offended, please talk to me and I will sort it out. Plus, we usually do have chat mods on there, whether it is me, Viva, Von or Kogasa - we are usually around. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:05, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

@Warman555 You better read OreoToast555's blog post here if you want to be a chat mod. FirstStooge (talk) 04:22, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

We have more than enough people to moderate that chat, War. If you see improper behavior when none are around, just let us know, and it will be dealt with. Lordganon (talk) 10:11, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Umm...Warman is one of the worst people on chat... Mafia (talk) 13:06, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

He constantly spams links to a website that (I don't know if he is aware), my virus checkers says is not trustworthy. Mafia (talk)

As it Stands Warman on multiple occasions has called me a dick, and asshole and voices his dislike of me in a very outright and offesnsive manner at some points. as it stands he consistantly yells at me for map games in which he thinks he turns are plausible that ive crossed out (cause they are ridiculously implausible) he also yells at me for other things and continually cusses at me. For Future reference Warman is in fact one of the worst people on chat and show little to no restraint and shows consistant behavior that would warrant the boot. He Also as Mafia said will have certain days where he just picks a random website and will spam it like nobodies buisiness for most of the time im on chat, or will just continually hit the spacebar and keep the spam train rolling. &#35;LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 15:08, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Have now blocked him for the chat for a month, and the wiki for a week for being offensive to others.

Next time say something soon as it happens, eh?

Lordganon (talk) 10:54, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Cyberbullying?
local keeps cyberbullying for no reason and so is fudal i ask the adims to do somthing about them ~Warman

I said he can't play as China in a game that isn't even on here, because The Old Baby 2 is playing as them, and I also said that I don't think he should play as major Nations, as he is very implausible, and changes nation a lot, so I feel he is not suited to Major nations. If I have caused offense, I apoligize. Mafia (talk) 14:42, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

I would also like to report him for cyberbullying, as he swears at me, and says that no one cares when I am trying to help him, by telling him how to sign his posts, he said 'No one gives a shite', and he said 'local u (sic) blame me for bull shit reasons' and, in a similar vein 'l ocal u (sic) have caused so proplems u (sic) blame for shitty reasons' Mafia (talk) 14:48, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

As it Stands Warman on multiple occasions has called me a dick, and asshole and voices his dislike of me in a very outright and offesnsive manner at some points. as it stands he consistantly yells at me for map games in which he thinks he turns are plausible that ive crossed out (cause they are ridiculously implausible) he also yells at me for other things and continually cusses at me. For Future reference Warman is in fact one of the worst people on chat and show little to no restraint and shows consistant behavior that would warrant the boot. He Also as Mafia said will have certain days where he just picks a random website and will spam it like nobodies buisiness for most of the time im on chat, or will just continually hit the spacebar and keep the spam train rolling.sorry if there has been an issue here #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 15:08, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Blocked from the chat for a month, and the wiki for a week.

Say something sooner next time, eh?

Lordganon (talk) 10:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Isn't it too obscene?
I think the timeline Byzantium Vs. The Roman Empire that written by user HerrWolf88 being too obscene in feature. FirstStooge (talk) 07:10, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Very much so. This isn't some sort of porn site, for pete's sake. Lordganon (talk) 10:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Should HerrWolf88 get blocked and his TL get deleted quickly? I think he is just trolling around on this wiki. FirstStooge (talk) 11:17, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Could be, but I won't block him unless he does it again. Lordganon (talk) 12:36, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Reminds me of that one Hitler thingy a few months ago... writing smile seems pretty similar and the username is of German origin (Herr)... think they're the same person? PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 13:02, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Probably not. Chalk any similarities up to trolls just looking alike in general. Lordganon (talk) 11:10, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Troll?
User Zanbaq1 posting a blog post that explain something about such a prophecy, Nibiru, etc, etc. Maybe he not did something wrong...yet. Please keep an eye on him, I believe he is just a troll that want to spread such a nonsense thing into this wiki. FirstStooge (talk) 07:22, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Without question a troll. Blocked and deleted. Lordganon (talk) 12:53, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, LG :) FirstStooge (talk) 01:12, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Sockpuppets
I believe that Aternix may be sockpuppeting Darwin is God. Aternix claims that Darwin is his friend in real life, but they have really similar post habits (See here, Philippines and Burma). While viewing their editing history I noticed that Darwin joined the wiki and signed up for games that Aternix is a part of. I know personally that in NotLAH the two are nearby nations. Mscoree (talk) 02:02, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

The style of the posts seems different to me, with regards to grammar and words.

Overall, though, we have to at least somewhat take them at their word. Unless they seem to be conspiring together, or excessively cooperating, going by the new wikia policy, there's not too much I can do.

Second either of those changes, let me know.

Lordganon (talk) 10:40, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Troll?
An anon created this: Aboutuukkd.

Another Troll
Ilikehistory has been spamming and trolling chat. He shows a little interest in the site, but when asked to stop spamming just continues to do so. Best Regards, g greg e   (talk)  22:20, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting + Spam
I believe users WilhelmIII and Ilikehistory are the same person as they uploaded the same file (Nuke already deleted it). If I don't wrong, I remember Ilikehistory also creating a page titled "Qing doing something with the japenenese flag" with the file from WilhelmIII and then re-uploaded a duplicated file with a different name (Nuke also deleted it). Now, Ilikehistory also used WilhelmIII's pict on his user page (China and japan.png). Also, in his user page, Ilikehistory wrote:

"I like history" ---> WilhelmIII also wrote similarly on his own user page

"Heres my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtn6G4G9D2wJO-0rA8_hqmA

You might be thinking 'Does he have the same channel like WilhelmIII?''" ---> See? He thought we are fool enough for not knowing they are a same person

FirstStooge (talk) 04:08, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that one is a bit obvious. Blocks added. Lordganon (talk) 11:43, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

They were on chat at the same time... I don't know what difference that makes Mafia (talk) 12:43, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Less than you'd think. All you need is two different browsers and you can do that. That chat also doesn't withdraw you immediately, as well. Lordganon (talk) 12:57, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Illegal editing?
IP 68.199.190.115 keep editing page President John F. Kennedy, Jr. that is not his own although I already undoing his edit several time. Maybe he is not vandalizing, but it is still illegal. Why I supposed to do because I want to avoid an edit war with him? FirstStooge (talk) 06:25, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, he is vandalizing. Blocked.

As for what to do, undo the edits if you want, but know I'll catch the bugger when I go through the edited list ;)

Lordganon (talk) 10:43, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. LG, you are the best :D FirstStooge (talk) 11:09, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Something new?
I don't know how to react about this, but I never see something like this before? Is it against our Wiki convention? FirstStooge (talk) 02:41, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ayup. Tag added. Lordganon (talk) 14:02, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Imp
The user Imperium Guy has recently used admin rollback powers to vandalize an algorithm on NotLAH. Rather than question me in the discussion, he reverted multiple edits and threatened me, by saying, "Don't ever do that again." I'm not sure what to do, as I can't undo his rollback. Perhaps we can have a civilized conversation here and fix his edits. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 20:49, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

I think I'll just do it manuelly. Mscoree (talk) 20:55, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

It was quicker rather than undoing his undoing of my posts. And I think a map game problem should stay on a map game  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:07, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it should have without question stayed there. But now I have to deal with it. Somehow, I'm not surprised.

Both of you need to cut it out, overall.

Now, as to your dispute...

Imp, while I can find precedent in those algorithms for both arguments, none of the other ones with South Africa have it laid out like that. Basically, you're not getting that there. As the controller of that nation, you can change that to reflect the situation you argue, but you'd have to do that in the game.

However? It is very obvious that you, Ms, are metagaming things. The mod events are in your favor quite consistently, you go into ASB-land with how you claim to combat the SA invasion of Angola (for example, impossible to get those troops there that fast in that amount) and that you use the US figures in that table without any reason in that algorithm, despite your stated troop numbers.

So, while Imp is wrong at this time about the nations, I have to conclude that your claimed result, Ms, is also wrong.

Lordganon (talk) 13:25, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I will be changing this soon enough. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:12, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure what you mean about metagaming, and if you'd care to go into more detail that would be much appreciated. In regards to the number of soldiers, I already had forces in Africa because of the Trans-Saharan Counterterrorism Initiative, and I spent three to five months moving my forces from Europe, North Africa, and North America to the Congo. My forces only accounted for about 36% of the coalition, as several other nations also send troops. Usually in the moderator events I recap some of the things that happened in the last turn, which is why I write stuff like "American and NATO forces successfully enter South African occupied Angola", as that happened in an algorithm last turn, and I am filling everyone in. In the algorithm I made the decision to use the American scores since the United States was leading the attack at the time. This actually weakened me since the United States did not have the highest scores out of the people attacking, so if anything I was actually handicapping myself. Anyway, sorry for bringing this here. At the time I didn't know how to undo a rollback and was hoping an admin could help. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 15:30, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice all that before. And you're still wrong about it.

"Metagaming" is when someone is using their powers to bend the game/rules for their own benefit. That is exactly what you are doing.

And now, you are making demands that are quite literally insane. Obscene, really.

So, let me make this very clear: Fix that algorithm, and make/learn (to do) reasonable requests. I've seen far too much squabbling in that game because of you failing to do both, and I've now had it.

Lordganon (talk) 13:47, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't matter now LG, I quit that shitfest. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:59, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I still don't know what you're talking about, Lordganon. Again, if you would cite a specific source or example then I would be able to assess your claims. Furthermore, I refuse to let an uninformed person make demands for a game they do not play. If you can illustrate a repeated history of me failing to fix algorithms and make reasonable claims, then that would also be helpful. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 03:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure LG has a rough idea of what goes on all over the wiki. He's the all knowing, all seeing, all hearing. Your game is no exception.

03:48, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * And the common misconception that LG has never played a map game is also not true. He played the Scramble for Africa (Map Game) as was a moderator. LG has seen it all, lol. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:57, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

So many promising games have ended this close to their finish. Imp has quit the shitfest. The shitfest shall now soon quit the wiki.

I never said that Lordganon didn't play a map game. I am well aware that he has. All of this, and everyone else's comments have nothing to do with the original problem, which was how to undo a rollback. Anyway, Imp's edits to the algorithm have already been fixed. As for making demands to his nation, those were in character, and therefore they may be ridiculous. If you don't like them you can reject them, which he has. Mscoree (talk) 14:16, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, he doesn't anymore. Says he doesn't touch them. I think he once played Scramble for Africa. But that was a long, long, long time ago. Right in the dawn of map games on this wiki.

Personally, I really don't understand about the main point of this discussion, TBH. (^^") FirstStooge (talk) 14:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

So Ms is blaming Imp for vandalizing and metagaming. Turns out he wasn't vandalizing and the metagaming is still iffy. Imp and LG have countered claiming that Ms metagames. Imp has now quit Notlah. The original edits are fixed. People are angry.

What is 'metagaming' means? FirstStooge (talk) 14:57, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Guns is completely wrong. This conversation was about me asking for help on how to undo a rollback. This ensued. Also, as I have said already, I am aware that Lordganon played on Scramble for Africa. I never claimed he didn't, and I think it's quite clear now. Mscoree (talk) 18:13, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

...  and I quote, 'The user Imperium Guy has recently used admin rollback powers to vandalize an algorithm on NotLAH.'. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 13:25, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

That was background knowledge as to why I needed help. Mscoree (talk) 16:06, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

To clarify on what I said earlier, I know that Lordganon has played map games in the past and is quite experienced on this wiki. What I meant by 'uninformed' was that since he doesn't play NotLAH, he probably didn't understand all the politics and backstory of the game in regards to South Africa. Mscoree (talk) 16:15, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Except, you know, he reads every single edit made on the wiki (as far as I can tell).

Oh, I'm well aware of the "history" and "politics" in your game - or, rather the lack thereof. More or less like anything with your game.

This is a very obvious case of you failing to do both of those. Which, quite frankly, has happened rather constantly.

Imp, whether you quit it or not, the point still needs to be made.

Yeah, I do read most of them.

Trying to pass bad behavior off as being "in character" does you no good. All you're managing to do is look like an ass, truthfully.

So, let me be very clear: Fix the algorithms, and even more so, make reasonable demands.

Lordganon (talk) 13:15, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

So, Ms more or less forced my hand on this one - he refused to even consider my ruling. As a result, I've instituted it myself. Ms has been given a similar penalty to the one Scan got in PR for doing the same thing. Wasn't too shocked, truth be told - in line with earlier behavior by him.

Apologies for stepping on toes in the process.

Lordganon (talk) 11:45, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Homesun's back
Recently a user by the name of Homesun altered one of my maps and began working on a. I reverted his edits and protected the pages to prevent further edits, and requested an explanation (which I have yet to receive [will update if he does]).

Looking into the matter, I see that he has been warned previously about edits pages that weren't his (or had permission to do so). I thought it should be brought up, and I have informed him of this discussion. I'll give him a chance to explain himself, and leave any discipline open for LG to deal with. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:40, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Three day block since we hadn't actually blocked him before. Lordganon (talk) 12:20, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

TSPTF was vandalized
This people ---> Alex0225, had been vandalized the TSPTF page by wrote some gibberish words. That was his first edit on this wiki and maybe he will come up other vandalism next. FirstStooge (talk) 03:33, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

His history on other sites (along with his brief history on our site thus far) proves that he's not really looking to do anything constructive. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 01:03, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I knew it. He's even already get blocked on the two of that wikis. FirstStooge (talk) 01:07, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Warman555!
This user got caught by me for illegally nominated the page with active user for deletion and wrote such a gibberish on the map game. FirstStooge (talk) 01:22, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I offered my opinion on the talk page of the first one to counteract his reasons, but other than that I think we should wait and see what happens.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 01:32, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

im sorry Warman555 (talk) 13:21, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Did you sincerely apologizes, Warman? FirstStooge (talk) 14:24, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

No offense- i don't think warman is a troll, anyway, but asking one if they are such (a troll), is like asking a pathological liar if he killed someone.

You go for the opposite!

No, Guns. Warman is still a 11th grader, he is still young. His behaviour is because doesn't know a lot about the thing enough. That's why I asked him personally to apologize to the TSPTF and not took a more strict action regarding him. He just need to learn. FirstStooge (talk) 16:35, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

11th grader's aren't that stupid. I joined this site in the 10th grade and I knew not to do that shit right from the get-go. He's a troll and there's really no excuse for his recent behavior, be it here or on other pages. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 17:28, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Good. Can he get blocked soon? FirstStooge (talk) 17:35, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I have no objection to that.

17:54, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

His posts on PM2 as Persa are far from perfect too, but I don't think he should be blocked really VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:48, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Von stooge threatend to block me cause i gave a warning to the user who vandalized the TSPTF page Warman555 (talk) 23:49, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

How can I block you if I am not even a TSPTF member, kid? That is warning, not a threat because you don't need to give any warning to that user, that is not your business. FirstStooge (talk) 00:04, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

then how is tht your business kid? Warman555 (talk) 00:07, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

And thus you begin your trolling again. Everything is everyone's matter is we want to established a sound, stable, and near-perfect society.

00:38, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

No wonder Warman got banned from the chat. He even talk abruptly to me who nominally older than him in TSPTF talk page. If he was angry because I referred him as "kid", then his age as "11th grader" on his user page is a fake one. And, one of usual troll characteristics is they always putting a false information. Warman, are you want to speak to me like that again and get yourself strongly accused as a troll? FirstStooge (talk) 00:57, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

FS, Warman really did not do anything wrong here - and it certainly isn't your place to go off on him like that even if he had. Dial it back. Same to you, SS. Lordganon (talk) 11:50, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

FS, I'm probably younger than him. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 11:54, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm younger than warman... Mafia (talk) 14:28, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yea, so am I.  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:36, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yank stole persia from me in PM2 i would like something to be done about it please Warman555 (talk) 20:47, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, LG. I realized I went over the limit myself regarding Warman. As a candidate for the TSPTF membership, I feel ashamed with my own action and I will take a hiatus for a week as a responsibility. FirstStooge (talk) 21:32, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Stooge, you don't have to punish yourself. In fact, as a TSPTF member, it's better that you stay here. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 23:09, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly Stooge. Just play cool and don't be so... tough on yourself. Ease it a little, lol. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:58, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

NotLAH Edits
Someone removed a ton of stuff from NotLAH. Not sure what the deal is, but I undid it. Tr0llis (talk) 12:23, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Okay I'm not sure what's going on, but apparently people are being banned. Why are people getting banned?Tr0llis (talk) 12:25, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Here's how I see it. Imp was defeated in the game and complained to the admins. Since he is more popular with the admins, the admins demanded that Mscoree revert the game and rig the algorithm so that Imp won the war which he had fairly lost. When Mscoree refused to do this, Lordganon banned him for three days for being insubordinate, then forcefully reverted NotLAH so that Imp was never defeated, even though Imp no longer plays. I hope that helps. NonEuclidean (talk) 12:34, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

To quote what I said on the NotLAH talkj page, this is ridiculous. There is no justice here, only tyranny. I have never seen anything more bias in my life. Reverting several years just to make a sore loser feel better. You should be ashamed of yourself. Going around pushing people around to get your way. I read the conversation myself. You said "you know how to fix it", Mscoree asked how multiple times, and then said "Nope", as in 'no, I don't know how,'. Go ahead and ban me now and I'll be another martyr. Tr0llis (talk) 13:09, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I got sent here from the NotLAH talk page, and I'm shocked. I can't believe you get banned now for asking for help. To quote Mscoree, 'I don't believe you explain[ed] how to fix the algorithms, and if you did you weren't clear enough' (here. And now we can't undo Lordganon edits. Someone please help. Fritzmet (talk) 13:14, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

If you guys aren't going to read the cause of this, which is a matter of scrolling up, don't start flinging accusations around. This topic has been debated on and should be a closed issue. Thank you. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 13:24, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Admins shouldn't be allowed to vandalize a page and claim its a punishment. To Crimson, I for one have read the discussion above, in which Lordganon demanded in varying degrees of italics and bolding, that Mscoree rig the game. I personally was glad that he didn't. Now it seems that Lordganon has decided to take the time to remove days of work and eventually kill a page, just because he doesn't like it. I'm sorry if Imp felt sad, but its just a game. No need to get the admins to ban Mscoree and what not. Harvenard2 (talk) 13:31, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Way to not read any of what has been said about this, above or otherwise.

No one demanded anyone "revert" the game. No one. And no "reverting" happened, either, had you bothered to look.

I very pointedly told Ms what was wrong with his "algorithm." He declined to care about that. Even more so, he refused to be reasonable about some sort of peace.

No "days of work" went anywhere. And only one of you three even had a post modified - and that was to remove a couple of troop numbers in favor of the word "troops" and the parts that had you fighting in/leaving Africa long after the peace.

No one "demanded" that Imp win anything. And he did not. Again, had you bothered to even look at it, you would have seen that. The outcome was never in dispute - just the scope of the loss. Which has been adjusted.

Nor did he say "nope" as in "No, I don't know" - he said it as in he would not do it. Was no "confusion" there, and I was very explicit about what would happen should he fail to listen. Not the first time he's done that, either.

As for Ms getting blocked, that is what happens when you ignore a ruling by the admins that you helped ask for. The length is similar to punishments for the same reason given to others in the past. Can't say he didn't get warned.

Lordganon (talk) 15:13, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I used to play on NotLAH several months ago but I occasionally check back on it. I have read what everyone has said, so far. Lordganon, Mscoree obviously did bother to try and fix the algorithm since he asked how on several occasions (here and here). If you had actually helped and answered his question then you wouldn't be in this mess. RazorFangZ14 (talk) 15:17, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I talked to him and he said that he meant "nope", as in 'no, I don't know'. I personally thought that as well when I read it. Next time I advise actually sorting out a problem and talking about it before banning people. Tr0llis (talk) 15:21, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

2 things.

Firstly, drop the bloody persecution complex. No one is persecuting you. LG gets 25 requests on his talkpage EVERYDAY. He cannot respond to them all. Secondly, WHAT TYRANNY? EVERYTHING on this wiki is elected! If enough users cared to vote against these reforms, then they would be repealed. The fact that they don't is because you are in a MINORITY. Grow the hell up.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 15:27, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't we have a vote among NotLAH players who wants the revert/edit then? Tr0llis (talk) 15:35, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't you? Is that a threat? Really? The TSPTF has no control over the implausibilty of map games. They can't, won't, shouldn't, and don't want to stop you. Ms got banned for being, and no offense intended, an idiot. If I kept on bugging you on your talkpage, after you give me a reply, I think you'd feel pretty harrassed. You guys asked LG for his opinion- why did you do that if you didn't really want it? Again; grow up. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 15:42, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

No, he actually did not try to fix it - and I did tell him what was wrong with it. Very explicitly, for that matter - he just chose to ignore it, like he has ignored the admins several times with regards to what is/was wrong about things or disregarding warnings. But that's not even half the problem. Most of the problem was that he chose, outright, to ignore the part about being "reasonable."

I did answer his question. Not my fault he didn't like my answer - or the ruling on the original dispute that he asked for.

No truth to the "don't know" part. He was well aware of what was needed to be done. He refused to edit the past turns slightly like I did to make things reasonable.

And, for the last time: No "revert" happened.

Guns, calm down.

Lordganon (talk) 15:47, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

This is by far the most ridiculous map game related discussion that I have ever seen. LG is correct on all counts here.

18:40, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I thank my fellow users for standing up for me on such bias acusations. I really hope you folks get what this means to me - thank you again.

Let me state from my point of view:

Firstly, I invaded Angola in game thinking that is was run by a warlord. This was not so. I asked the algo to be reverted, Ms replied this was not fair. I responded by saying I did not know there was such a rule (I'm not sure if there even is). Ms responded by saying he would invade me - even though I stated I was willing to withdraw peacefully. Point about Ms - not willing to listen to other users. He also stated that this was in part due to my claims about the Netherlands - implausibly modded away from me. Point two about Ms - he holds grudges.

Using metagaming, he got a bunch of nations to his side - including Russia which on barely speaking terms with America (never would happen IRL). As any map gamer would do, I tried to defend my lands. Apparently, I wasn't allowed to use my vassals in Africa or India. He then invaded me and though the algorithm (which I still feel was not right) he won wars. Then Russia took over - helping NATO, even though South Africa and Russia were both in the CSTO.

I, naturally, sued for peace. My points to end the war might have not been the best, yet I was willing to negociate. Ms was not. Putting up a list of points which were designed to break apart my nation, he basically said you agree to my implausible requests or war continues. Plus, none of the rioting which would have happened in Russia or the US IRL was even mentioned.

I then, very logically, quit the shitfest which came to be called Notlah.

Now, moving on to the issue at hand. LG told Ms to stop reverting his changes, and Ms - not listening directly replied "nope". LG knows what is right. He never changed the outcome just made tweaks to the algo.

I didn't have anything against Ms - I even tried to help him out when he got banned for the memes - for which I was heavily criticised. However, now I would not be so willing so say otherwise. And plus - stop letting Ms tell you what to post Trollis - we all know you know him in real life.

Thanking you,  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:56, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Imp here highly. Most of NotLAH's founding members were Mscoree's friends from High School but only Trollis and Ed remained. Also post-World War III tensions between the US and Russia are thrown out the window entirely. Russia and the United States cooperating against terrorism is perfectly reasonable but the United States and Russia cooperating against Russia's ally over a misunderstanding is flipping ridicoulous. The war should have been between NATO and CSTO not the Collation vs. South Africa. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 21:23, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly the note about his high school isn't even true. Russia chose to attack South Africa. Sure there were sentiment between Russia and the United States (probably less since the east coast invasion was reverted/edited), but this is taking the first steps toward better relations. Not to mention Russia was trying hard to ally with Germany and some other European powers. Tr0llis (talk) 13:04, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it was his college. As he said before.

Trollis, Ms didn't get banned for implausibilty. He got banned for constantly reverting LG's changes to the algorithm, which Ms himself had asked for. Look at it. All Ms has done so far, really, is piss off people who used to like him. I had nothing against Ms until the memes, and the impeachment. Imp had nothing against him until this very problem. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 13:22, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, most of the stuff you're saying isn't true. Firstly, Lordganon did not make a single edit to the algorithm, therefore Mscoree never reverted it, and therefore he was not banned for reverting Lordganon's edit on the algorithm. Secondly, Mscoree never asked Lordganon to edit the algorithm. Thirdly, Mscoree has never attempted an impeachment, so basically you just confused everyone. Tr0llis (talk) 06:51, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

What are you smoking, Trollis?

A) Ms did ask for LG's help/

B) And yes, he has attmpted an impeachment- he just never went through with it.

Look, just stop, ok? Just stop. Really, this wiki was a much better place before the NotLah group came here.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 06:57, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with LG, Guns and the like minded supporters here. MS asked for help. When he did he didn't get the results he wanted and LG I'm sure does not take to kindly to people who waste his time which more than not MS has done with this fiasco. If y'all hasn't been so controlling and thrown implausibility out the window we wouldn't have this problem. LG is correct by all means end if story. As it stands there is literally nothing you can do a out it regardless. So drop it. The majority of people agree with LG here your a minority here and as it stands your opinion about this really isn't helping your case. --&#35;LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 07:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, Mscoree asking for help is unrelated. Yes he asked for help, but no algorithms were edited by Lordganon. You can view the history on the NotLAH talk page and you'll notice that Lordganon never edited the talk page, except to delete a bunch of stuff pertaining to the African War and announce that he was now moderating/editing past events in NotLAH (or something of the sort). Secondly, Mscoree never attempted an impeachment. In July several users including Mscoree wrote some points that needed addressing, in which it was stated four times that it was not an impeachment (at my own count). Tr0llis (talk) 09:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

No, see, what they did was start the process for impeachment then not follow through. It's like putting a gun to someone's head, threatening to pull the trigger, then leaving. You still tried to mug them.

Trollis. I could argue with the rest, but I don't want to. Just stop, ok? Grow up. Ms got banned reasonably, as is the clear opinion of not just TSPTF members but also ordinary users. Just stop. Just because you disagree, it isn't unreasonable. This wiki is a democracy. The majority wins.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 09:14, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Romae Delenda Est Vandalizing
Name: Romae Delenda Est I know a few of you arent necessarily too involved in map games but a player that me and another Head mod/ Creator. He has posted while under ban, and accused us of picking on him and is continueing to post. At this point im not sure whether to classify it as vandalizing since he is consistantly posting and undoing mod Reivsions on pages on a game he is banned from. or just being disruptive. But for the sake of it i personally classify it as vandalizing.

The User is VX-641. VS being disruptive and disrespectful to me as a person and mod as well as causing consistent issues with implausibility and conflict with mods. There are multiple occasions of him saying im sabotaging him like on my talk page Talking to be about "Sabotaging".

Here is the warning, and just below that is the other Moderator carrying out the ban.

RDE warning, and RDE ban.

Thanks in Advance &#35;LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 23:48, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just when the NotLAH drama was over. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:02, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

^

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:08, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah my bad didnt mean to have it happen.. lets just have it be swift and decisive.. my other mod could easily back me up on it. &#35;LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 02:15, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

But in all seriousness. We have given him multiple chances before we even did the two day ban. We even agreed on the two day ban a turn or two before I actually posted it on his talk page, because I had hope he'd get the message that he wasn't following rules and disregarding algorithms. Sadly, it came to the two day ban, which he then ignored, posting when we has banned from the game for two days, and I even confirmed that his nation wouldn't be put under civil disorder, nor invaded in the time he was gone. He then went on to undo Feudal's entire cross-out and explaination of his banishment being extended for not following the ban rules. We tried to give him as many chances as possible since he was newer, but he consistantly disregarded the rules, changed mod events to be in his favor, and undid changes that I and Feudal did as mods to combat his rule-breaking behavior. Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 03:26, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

I've warned him about it, and told him to listen to you guys. Let me know if he does it again. Lordganon (talk) 10:42, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help! Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 12:04, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Much Appreciated LG thanks again &#35;LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 22:50, August 24, 2013 (UTC)