User talk:DRAFIGO13

Naming Articles
The two most recent articles you have made violate the naming rules of this Wiki. Please read the rules before establishing any more articles. Thank you. -- 14:40, January 5, 2018 (UTC)


 * The rules clearly state how articles should be named. But for clarification.
 * What you named them → What they should've been named (according to the rules)
 * Weimar Republic-fascist reich → Weimar Republic (Fascist Reich)
 * Battles Of The great war-Fascist Reich → Battles of the Great War (Fascist Reich)


 * Your timeline's name NEEDS to be in parentheses at the end of the title. Your article should also be written as if it were a Wikipedia article (i.e., proper grammar). -- 14:51, January 5, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Templates
Here. -- 02:57, January 6, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Maps
I'm a map maker. What exactly do you need help with? -- 04:17, January 8, 2018 (UTC)

Royalty Template
Hello! I did not make the template for my ruler in my timeline. I used the royalty infobox template which can be found here. Many other useful infoboxes can be found here.

I hope this helps :) ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 12:36, January 8, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Re:Royalty Template
No worries! Also welcome to help out a fellow newbie on the wiki. I suggest you take a look around at other peoples timelines, their user pages etc to get a grasp about the stylises and guidelines in order to produce content. I noticed you have trouble accessing templates and content you wish to use. I suggest adding useful pages to your user page as a reference for yourself. I wish you all the best.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 13:29, January 8, 2018 (UTC)

Fascist Reich
Hey. I noticed that many of your pages within your timeline didn't have a uniform standard and the grammar needed rectifying. I have made these changes and I hope that they will help you as a guide to try and keep to a wikia standard from now on. I have also reorganised your main page so that the timeline flows better. I hope these changes are positive and if you wish for further aid do not hesitate to contact me. Furthermore, if you wish to revert any of these changes this can be done in the history section of each specified page.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 10:30, January 9, 2018 (UTC)

I'm wondering about the name of this timeline, just out of curiosity (due to it being a timeline where Fascism and Communism never rose) why is it called Fascist Riech? (just curious not critical) Baron Joshua (talk) 23:05, January 24, 2018 (UTC)

MF Portal
The portal I made was made using the Navbox template. This is a native template used on wikipedia and can be found here. Check out both links so you can understand how I got my end result but I highly recommend also using the wikipedia documentation to make your own too.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 14:06, January 9, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Re:MF Portal
No problem. In future, if you're writing to people's talk pages, it's best to use a Heading 2 style in order to title your message to them. This is to prevent it being lost in other's messages to the talk page and also gives some subject to whomever's talk page it is. I understand that no matter how many resources are provided by the Althistory wiki, there is still a lot to learn. It'll come naturally and gradually. Don't worry if you're struggling initially. As always, happy to help with anything I can.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 14:14, January 9, 2018 (UTC)

'Thing'
Well it would help if you provided some further information of what you need help with. There's a limit to what I know and can help with.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 10:06, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Re:'Thing'
Okay well start an article for the war in your timeline and we can discuss it further on the articles talk page.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 10:12, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

Finnish War of Independence (Fascist Reich)
Please do not discuss this topic on my talk page any further. Use the talk page on the Article instead.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 10:38, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

Audio files
To upload an audio file, use this page. To add an audio file to an article, simply use where AudioFile is the upload name and .format is the format of the audio file (usually .mp3 or .ogg).

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 10:42, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

Naming conventions
I am going to stop renaming all of your articles. You must conform to a singular style i.e.



e.g.



exactly like this. Your timeline name should be capitalized. There should be a single space between the article name and the timeline name. The timeline name should be enclosed in brackets. The article name should be as short and concise as possible. The Kingdom of Italy should just be Italy. Longer, official titles can be specified within an infobox or in the article itself. It seems reminders and changes made for you have not got this idea to you. Furthermore, advice for articles: if you have information within an infobox, you do not need to repeat it in the article. I.e if the birth date is provided and the parents are already specified, there is no need to directly specify these details within the article unless it is imperative to provide further information. I hope I have made this clear enough for you and I only provide this so you can start doing this work yourself rather than retroactively by someone else. Do not feel afraid to contact me further with questions or advice.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 16:05, January 12, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Conflict Infobox
What is it that you need help with?

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 16:30, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Re:conflict infobox
before I give you any help have you looked at the documentation for the infobox?

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 21:30, January 17, 2018 (UTC)

Treaty infobox
I've already linked where you can find templates and specifically infobox templates.

ArmsSpaghetti (talk) 21:27, January 18, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Categories
Welcome

Re:Collab
Sure! What article would you like collaboration on?

Alright, I accept.

I see, well I'll be happy to expand upon this! Along with an addition on what they do with Ireland. I'll also be happy to do a collaboration on china, as I know a lot about Chinese History and such.

China would stay a republic, and the Kuomintang would stay conservative, and non-revolutionary, and Chiang Kai-Shek would'nt have much influence from Japan and Germany to recreate the Kuomintang and China into a Nationalist Authortarian State, and instead would be an, Semi-Normal, Conservative Kuomintang politician who wants china to be respected on the world stage and to be a great power, and to be unified. China most likely would still be faced with instability, and warlords would still be a problem, and without Chiang to keep china a stabilized one Party state, china would face a greater challenge on reuniting China, as freedom of speech and multi-partyism would rock the republic around like crazy, and could lead to more instability. Chiang Still would try his best, and would defiantly still be effective. As for Mao and his Communists, since communism doesn't exist in this timeline, i see Chinese democracy and the Republic of China lasting for centuries to come, and would slowly evolve into a global superpower, when given the chance to, if they ever unify and develop their economy and military power, I also see much support from nations around the world towards the Chinese Republican cause. Mao would most likely stay a Kuomintang party member, like he was historically before he left and created the CCP (Chinese Communist Party).

Well, Britain would most likely give up Ireland, if not, they'll have to face constant rebellion from Irish Nationalist Groups, which would fight for their independence, so most likely they would release Ireland, but under a free state, which would then cause great anger among Irish nationalists and republicans, and would then kick of the Irish civil war, again, like in real life, now the outcome of the civil war could determine, in our timeline the Irish free staters would win, due to British support, but it could depend in this timeline.

Then again, if the British were desperate enough, especially after India, their most prized possession of all of their empire, they could of hanged on to Ireland if they were worried that revolution could bring a downfall to their empire.

...
... I didn't. -- 03:38, January 21, 2018 (UTC)


 * You were also warned about the site naming rules. Your most recent article doesn't meet them (again).


 * Great Brittain(Fascist Reich) ≠ Great Britain (Fascist Reich)


 * Please don't let this continue. -- 03:42, January 21, 2018 (UTC)

Alright

May I create the China article for Fascist Reich now?

Re:India
Ehhh, hard to say, it most likely would be a Principality/Kingdom, since there are princes in India tha, under the British, hand a wide range of control over their province.

Re:Naming
No, you didn't name it correctly.

You named your article "India(Fascist Reich)", there is no space between "India" and the timeline's name. The article's name should be "India (Fascist Reich)" (notice the space).

This is the exact same issue you were just warned about with your previous four articles (British-Brunei War, Great Britain, Pedro III, and Brazil).

You have been warned about this multiple times, yet still fail to follow them. Any future misnamed article by you will automatically be deleted. -- 13:49, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Muhammad Mahabat Khan III Khanji, he was an Indian Prince who ruled over his province for a long while.

Welcome

Re:Sweden-Norway
Nah, the Swedish-Norwegian union wasn't really a country; officially? Yes, Physically? No. The Sweden-Norway union was like a very loose and very Autonomous confederation between the 2 countries, infact, both countries kept their own armed forces, their own currencies, their own state churches, Constitutions, laws, administrations and leglislatives. There is no way the Swedish-Norwegian Union could of lasted any longer then it already did, I'm even surprised that it even survived for almost a century! Also, Norwegians were pretty nationalistic, and wanted their own independent state for a long while by then, and the government allowed them to have a plebiscite on if the Union should be dissolved, which they overwhelmingly voted "yes" (around 99.5% of the vote actually). So it's certain that the Sweden-Norway union wouldn't survive long enough to see world war 1 or even the aftermath of it, as the only thing that basically United these nations was that they had the same monarch.

Re:American Civil War
I don't think the confederate states would be reformed, and even if it did try for some reason, and wouldn't be to reestablish slavery. If there was a second American civil war, which is a, sort of plausible, scenario, then it would be against a coalition of socialist movements and political parties, along with communists, as communism surged in popularity during the Great Depression, and I could see a possible revolution and then civil war break out in America, given roosevelt never becoming president thus never allowing the "New Deal" policy to be put in place, and which could ring a lot of civil dissent a much instability, and lead to rise and extreme increase in popularity for the Communist Party USA and other socialist and communist organizations across America. Again, it's not super plausible, especially since most Americans wouldn't take it to those extremes and try and revolt, but instead would vote for far right parties, if the situation got dire enough.

Re: Fascist Riech
Which one? If it's Fascist Riech you could have just posted it under that heading ahahah XD :) You don't have a list of your own timelines up for a reference so I don't know which timeline your refering to. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:33, January 25, 2018 (UTC)

'''The start is a little rough but the alternate history gets better from there. It's a great focus on the continuing struggle between Monarchism and ... I'm not sure what to call it; Classic Democracy (the John Locke school I think)? I like that such is the focus with that ideological conflict continuing on into the present.''' I cannot think of any great points to bring up as crtiical. I can however come up with something, Mussolini and Hitler. At present you have taken out Hitler, but that still leaves Mussolini to consider. Mussolini was a Socialist before the first world war (he was a newspaper man and devoted pacifist before being drafted and undergoing a radical transformation into an effective sniper). With the roots of Communism taken away Mussolini would have likely been different in this timeline (with out Socialism as a focus for his newspaper) though the war may have taken a tole on him or he may, like Hitler be taken out of the picture. Though with out more details on the Italian Civil War I can't give much beyond that point of interest- as in I can't make suggestions on how to handle Mussolini. With Franco one can easily have him more of a Monarchist then 'Fascist' but with Mussolini I suppose one can kill him off (seeing how he used his paper to create the Fascist Movement in Itally). Baron Joshua (talk) 00:06, January 26, 2018 (UTC)

You should make the outcome of the civil war known on the Italy article or the main article for the timeline. Baron Joshua (talk) 01:39, January 26, 2018 (UTC)

Nice work getting the information up, and while I myself am still getting use to templates and infoboxes (and thus don't know which to use for leaders) I should be capable of creating some custom flag for your use; what flag do you desire? Baron Joshua (talk) 02:26, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

I'll get to work right now :) Baron Joshua (talk) 17:33, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

Here are two concepts;

Baron Joshua (talk) 17:52, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

Thank you ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 20:57, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

Ancestrally I have ties to Normandy's Duke but don't want you to interfer in the 'alternate' aspect of the history- you have a good concept that shouldn't be soiled by such favors.I want to see the concept explored rather then the project used in such a way. As in while I'm flattered I do not desire you to do so and had taken your proposal as flattery rather then serious or even to indicate that you desired me to be involved as an approved editor on the project. (I do however have a painting of myself in the role of a Monarch for a play I took part in where I was the King and as part of the set they painted a portrait of me in costume) If you simply want to use that image I can see about getting a copy of it digitally (as right not it's a physical portrait stored in a building). I'll be happy to donate such art for your use. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:48, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

I am able to. What do you desire of this map? Baron Joshua (talk) 22:22, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

hahaha Don't forget about Italy being fragmented :) I'll see what I can do for the map, I'm guessing this map will be for 1917/18 yes? Baron Joshua (talk) 00:07, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

oh hahha you had mentioned spain and I was thinking 'hmm, spain and hungary are pretty far appart I mindsawell make a map of lower Europe- I'll have to include Italy though so I should ask what year the map is set in so I know if the Italian Civil War has happened'. I'm close to finally adopting the Monachist World timeline and at the time of this message have only recently got up (it's the week end here) so I'm not yet driven enough to start production of the map and may latter become focused on the Monarchist World project (notice provided on the general discussion forum). My memory is also not that great so if I take longer then friday to get a map to you send me a reminder. Baron Joshua (talk) 15:51, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

That is a good question as in OTL Milan was highly socialist hmm...looking at a list of Mayors of Milan and noting the time of the civil war and the lack of socialism I have a direction. A version of the Liberal Union is likley in power in the Republic of Milan. I say a form as with out the Radical, Reform Socialist, or The Extreme factions of the Union one is left with Clerical and Democratic factions serving as a centralist union (which is the Liberal Union's aim- balancing conservative and liberal ideologies)- essentially one can see them as Catholic Democrates akin to those found in the republics prior to Italy's unification. Records of municiple elections are not easy to find online though in our timeline Emanuele Greppi was mayor of Milan (from 1911-14) before socialist began to obtain the postion. I've not been able to find out much about him and considering the civil war I can not say he'd be the kind of man to obtain office after the conflict. Typically a state that has come into being via armed conflict will elect someone with a 'strong' presence or a man of force to disuade other states do not so easily take advantage of the fledgeling state. While I've been unable to find the information one may attempt to find an Italian general from the 1st or 2nd world war in OTL who was from Milan who was also democratic and in your timeline may have aided the republic. Also, next time you respond can you do so in the Fascist Riech section of my talk page so I can more easily keep track of a message's subject. Such will be appreciated. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:31, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

That works though I do feel the Timeline Review and Custom Flag sections should be merged with the Fascist Riech section. ahhha As you may recall I was rather confused when you asked for a Timeline Review and had it separate from the Fascist Riech section XD hahaha. Also I hope you have more luck then I in finding a candidate for Milan's head of state :) Baron Joshua (talk) 00:52, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Oh, also, don't forget about what I said rearding a version of the Liberal Union. Politicis in Milan would be inclined towards Catholic Democracy though I suppose with out socialist as rivals the parties would have remained the Historical Right and Historical Left though a third (Catholic Democrat) path still be present seeing how the lIberal Union did come into being in OTL. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:55, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Turin (his birth place) is close to Milan (and I don't know the borders of Milan in your timeline) so that seems like it'll work. In fact I can rather easily imagine it and he looks like a man worthy of the post. It actually brings me near uncontainable joy that you found someone to serve the role. He would have been (based on the wikipedia article) around Lucca when the Italian Civil started- which is still close to Turin and Milan. Seeing as I have no other candidate for the post I have no grounds to oppose XD hahaha Baron Joshua (talk) 01:40, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Since in Fascist Riech both of those ideologies never came into being we'll nether see a communist Yugoslavia or Romania. Romania I feel will be the most impacted. Ion Antonescu Carol II Ferdinand I NLP | *thinks* With neither Communism nor Fascism the situation may have carried out as a relativelu uneventful regency or in a parallel to Micheal I appointing Ion as Conductor (synonymous with Duce) he may have decreed a more democratic; parliamentary government as was established after WWII in OTL (though such government lead to a Communist state in OTL but such isn't going to happen in this one), perhaps it becomes a Republic latter or sees a political move for a more parliamentary centered or democratic government which sees, as witinessed in OTL's version of Micheal's riegn (wikipedia article ), the monarch's authority become limitied. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:21, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Hey Drafigo13, I was at work thinking about the map when something occured to me- the King of Italy - oh wait I just started looking into my own question XD hahhahahaha Alright, I'll have a map for you soon. I just answered my own question. *starts on map of Italy* here is a draft, as in it's rather crude but here presented to have confirmation that these borders are acceptable (looking at it at such a small size it actually looks really good and thus usable). I'd also like to (due to the Clerical faction discovered in our pervious research) like to know how Rome faired during the Civil War. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:09, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Glad to hear that it's excellent :D I'm pleased to be of assistance in this project. Also, since you liked what I did with Monarchist World thus far check out what a day of contemplation at work yeilded; link. I'd like to hear your thoughts :) Baron Joshua (talk) 22:12, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Well, first you'll have to decide if you want water levels to be of such a nature where it didn't in which case other land masses around the globe will also be impacted with more land. Baron Joshua (talk) 22:14, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye out for it :) We sure do have a lot of salt water on Earth so we can surely make it with less in your timeline XD hahaha More fresh water please! XD hahahaha Baron Joshua (talk) 22:33, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

That is good to know, also, despite NuclearVacuum's preference please keep conversation regarding the topic of Fascist Riech under the Fascist Riech subject heading. I don't want to have to search my talk page for fragments if I ever need to review our discussions on the topic and find people adding more subjects to just clutter talk pages of this nature by creating far too many topics. Nuclear Vacuum prefers users just post messages as you have been but I like having everything as on your page with this head, in one place and thus easy to find. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:41, January 30, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks :) I have been feeling regret about dumping my frustrations with NuclearVacuum on you this monring so seeing that it wasn't taken hard is a relief. I've noticed your Greece article and your article on the King of Greece and I feel that is a good start on the subject of the Balkans. Such research should provide a better idea of Romania's direction as well due to the hereditary link. Baron Joshua (talk) 20:54, January 30, 2018 (UTC)

Seeing how WWI happened, and how the furthest (I can tell) the timeline has gone is 1920 I'd say Boris III as Ferdinand I abdicated in favor of his older brother in 1918 after WWI. Boris's godfather is Nicholas II, Tsar of Russia.who currenlty riegns over Russia. Due to reparations having to be paid by Bulgaria after the War Boris has inherited a nation in trouble. In OTL his main opsition was Socialist and the Agrarian Union ; the Agrarian Union it's self is not innately Communist though it allied with the Socialist in OTL. The Agrarian Union was in fact opposed by the communist. With out the communist or socialist to oppose the Agrarian Union it's 1920 government majority and control would go unchallenged. In OTL it's paramilitary arm had to deal with communist, socialist, and anarchist resisting the government. In this timeline it'd only be Anarchists. In short the prospect of Bulgaria becoming an Agrarian Republic is very likely for with out Fascist Italy or the Communist working against the rule of the Agrarian Union it'd take hold bringing about the reforms it desired. After Aleksandar Stamboliyski 's term as Prime Minister Rayko Daskalov I feel would be most likley to rise to power wither as Prime Minister in the Kingdom or President of a Bulgarian Republic. When considering this one has to also consider that Nicholas is still in power in Russia and as godfather to Boris will likely offer him refuge should events come to such being needed. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:26, January 30, 2018 (UTC)

Maybe, we'll see- I'll need details on Atlantis in the timeline. In regards to Fascist Reich, I notice that you still have Carlos II returning to Romania and Micheal I abdicating and I'd like details regarding this. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:51, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Doesn't look like you'll have to leave after the assistance you've recieved :) Baron Joshua (talk) 21:15, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, about that. In OTL there was a regency between Carlos abdicating and Micheal I taking the throne. Micheal took the throne when he came of age so Micheal's age isn't an issue (due to the Regency which runs the government till Micheal matures). Baron Joshua (talk) 22:41, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

I haven't upset you have I? It's hard to decern emotion via text and you spelled help with two 'e's indicated sarcasam. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:15, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

OH XD hahahaha That is a relief ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 00:02, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah hahah he keeps doing so because the image is already on the wiki but it wasn't easy to find due to what the file is called; Giorgios II.jpg. Here is to it in case. When filling out the info box you just have to put Giorgio II.jpg into the- seeing how you've been adding images I don't think I have to explain that aspect of it ^_^ but yeah the file is Giorgio II.jpg. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:26, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

ah, delayed. The Austria-Hungary map due to there already being somewhere on the web a map of Austria-Hungary though the Spanish one I just haven't gotten around to. Do you also need an improved italy map? Baron Joshua (talk) 11:19, February 2, 2018 (UTC)

I found one on the wiki ^_^ http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/File:US_flag_51_stars.svg decided to check so I didn't create a duplicate. This design was created by the Flag Institute and is being used in OTL by various Statehood proponents such as those in Paurto Rico. I'm curious as to how the lack of communism or fascist has allowed for an additonal state. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:16, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

Well now you certainly have my attention, what role did Fascism and Communism play in that conflict or rather in what way was france impacted by their absence to like- what's the connection? Baron Joshua (talk) 21:46, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

The revolt of French Indochina makes sense, and I imagine it can go one of two ways- since the Japanese are not restoring the Monarchy the revolt could. It seems the most likey outcome based on the region seeing how it's nieghbors would be monarchies and Monarchist tradition rooted in the location. Otherwise would could go with a Republic, inspired by French brought ideas, though such would be the most foriegn to them and be most akin to the colonial society present. A third path is to go with a restoration of the monarchy, supported by Japan, and then latter have a republic formed. Actually- seeing how fascism nor communism exists- and how the Republic of China did get involved in Vietnam in OTL- wow- yeah it can really go either way. Becoming a chinese like Republic or even an American inspired one- it's really difficult for me to say right now but I'm thrilled by the potential of the situation. Edit - Actually after having read again that proclaimation and noting the precent date of the 1930s I'd say a Republic would be lovely. Baron Joshua (talk) 15:05, February 11, 2018 (UTC)

I had to look up the captial of the Nguyen Dynasty of Vietnam before proceeding (It's Hue in central Veitnam). I had to really think for a while to figure out why the North is Monarchist rather then the South but that's when I remembered that the south had the largest French population. Still- with the Republic of China to the North- maybe I'm thinking too hard. The Monarchy was in OTL installed by Japan when it 'liberated' the region from French colonial rule; if the vietnamese are coming up on thier own against the French then a republic is likely to form judging by it's northern and southern influences unless one has Japan invade French Indochina- which would mean war with France- but that's just my thoughts. I'll see what I can flag wise, though I would be put at ease if I had an idea of the reseach that has lead to a split north and south vietnam- like is the South still French Indochina? Baron Joshua (talk) 00:32, February 13, 2018 (UTC).

I don't want you to get sidetracked if your focused on North Vietnam but I recently found myself wondering about San Marino in Fascist Riech; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino I know it's a small little tiny state with so many heads of state that even wikipedia has trouble listing them all but I thought I should share the link just incase it was so small as to be overlooked :) Baron Joshua (talk) 21:02, February 18, 2018 (UTC)

That is indeed a challenge. I'd say we cant' use Giuliano Gozi as head of state; but rather as a military leader preserving the state during the Italian civil war of the Fascist Riech timeline. He did serve the Italian Army during World War One. We can't use Giuseppe Maiani- the guy wasn't even born yet. Though I know this much, seeing how often San Marino holds elections (every six months) I think that for now it's safe to say the current Captains Regents (there are two heads of state in San Marino) are members of the Christian Democratic Party. Baron Joshua (talk) 01:34, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Ah that's something I overlooked. *looks for a list and finds a list of political parties in San Marino* Let's see- got to exclude the socialist, communists, the fascist party- Well, I found two possible parties; Sammarinese Democratic Union or the Sammarinese People's Party which despite it's name is a clerical organization (similiar to Milan's Christian Democrats).the wiki articles are an interesting read in relation to the project. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:53, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

That is great to hear! I can't find any information on those two myself so it's great that you have. Without information to review on my end I can't comment more then say that I'm happy to hear that you've found two ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 11:08, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

I don't directly see a corrolation between Malta and India save in a British connection. I will say that in WWII the Nazis tried to ster up a revolt in India, and Ghandi himself had wrote a letter to Hitler but it was intercepted by the British (Ghandi was asking for peace but his plea was never recieved due to the British). But with this timeline, and no Nazis to ster up trouble- I suppose India would still be - yes it'd still be a free republic. As for Malta, I don't know at present. Without a send world war (I dont' know if there is one in the timeline or not) I'd say that Malta doesn't become independent till the 80s (rather then the 60s) and that India would have a longer struggle for independence due to more British resources. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:47, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

The Roman Question is an interesting topic, espeically with the civil war in your timeline and the various clerical/Christian Democratic parties in the penensula- as those parties did support papal power. It's even more interesting due to how in OTL it was Benito who ended the dispute by recognizing Vatican City, and the Papalcy recognizing the King's power over the former papal states (well the land excluding Rome). From what I can tell Benito wasn't very active in getting this passed but was Prime Minister at the time- it seems the best option but that's accounting for a lack of a civil war. You once said Rome was hit by some artilary during the civil war- likely expressing further to the Papalcy and it's supporters that the Kingdom wasn't up to defending it. Most likley the strikes will be known as an embarrasing event in Italian history with something akin to the Lateran Treaty being made so Rome, or at least a large area of Rome, can claim neutrality. Keepnig it from being shelled as part of the kingdom. Benito wanted Rome so he could remake the Roman Empire but the King of Italy doesn't have that objective- his focus is the cviil war, so- perhaps all of Rome? Or just the Vatican- either seems to work and it being recognized so it may claim neutrality (likely having been hit as part of the Italian Kingdom) makes a lot of sense. The papalcy wouldn't be able to protect a large territory during the conflict so would as in OTL recognize former lands as part of the Kingdom of Italy. Who ever shelled Rome will likely not be well liked by the catholic population and it was likely shelled as part of the Kingdom. I hope this makes sense I think I got scrambled near the end. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:41, February 20, 2018 (UTC)

Well, can't say I'm thrilled with the death of a pope but let's see.... the pope at the time of the Italian Civil War (1917 from what I can gather on the Italy article) would have been Pope Benedict XV. Who in OTL during 1917 had attempted to negotiate a peace during the first world war, and declared the Holy See (the temporal power of the pope on Earth) to be neutral during that conflict. He sounds like the kind of man who would have been capable of negotiating Rome's status during the Italian Civil War and a man capable of fostering some influence for the Papal State (seeing how it only holds Rome such seems the best term in the timeline). Especially in the now fractured Italy. To me the real question is who succeeds him. In OTL, Achille Ratti the Archbishop of Milan was elected Pope in 1922 .With the Italian Civil War and the resulting recognition of Rome as the Papal State, I feel that- well not really feel- but I put forward that Pietro Gasparri, Benedict XV's Secretary of State who was born in the Papal States and was a candidate in OTL is perhaps the best option for Rome. Though even in OTL Achile Ratti (Pious XI) kept him as Secretary of State. But the situation is complicated by how in OTL Gasparri is reported to have not wanted the position, believing perhaps that he served best in depolomacy rather then statesmanship. there is also Rafael Merry del Val who latter became a secretary of state himself. What one has to keep in mind is what Rome's situation is in your timeline as the electors will seek to appoint someone who can best negotiate such troubled times- I still put forward Pietro Gasparri but I'll let you decide based on those links. It could still be Achille Ratti which for the clerical faction of Milan would be a great boon.. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:08, February 21, 2018 (UTC)

That is indeed a great question. Starting in the 6th century Popes began to choose thier own Papal name, and thus Pietro would have to choose one for himself. But we can't really ask him what he'd choose hahha eh... well off hand for Pietro Gasparri I'd say Gregory. Making him Pope Gregory XVII. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:41, February 21, 2018 (UTC)

I don't have much to say about the assassination. I know that in OTL Manuel died that year (1932) from a swelling of the larynx. So the assassination seems a rather violent way to get rid of a man who would have died that year regardless. Upon his death in OTL it was his will that, being with out an heir, his estate be sold to the English throne and the revenue given to the Portugese people. The lack of an heir presented issues- which even with this assassination will rise. Two factions- one seeking to fomralize the republic (the same movement that was responsible for assassinating King Carlos of Portugal), and antoher seeking to instill Duarte Nuno as King. I've found sources that say the republic was established years before in 1910 but- it seems that the death of Manuel was the actual formalization of the republic. I'm not well verse in Portugese history and may not fully understand what I'm looking at. Baron Joshua (talk) 12:59, February 24, 2018 (UTC)

While I do not always understand, the fact that a conspiracy does exist is knowledge I did not have but now do thus bringing me a little closer to understand. And while I'm not sure what the 1890 Pink Ultimatum has to do with the rise of Communism and Fascism (possible something to do with communist natons in central africa or something) I trust your choices are made with the aim of preventing both those ideologies and thus I have no objections ahhahaha It's great to see work being done. Baron Joshua (talk) 14:44, February 24, 2018 (UTC)

"There exists but one country in the civilised world where every strike is eagerly and joyously turned into a pretext for the official massacre of the Working Class. That country of single blessedness is Belgium!" - Karl Marx, Marx and Engels on Trade Unions. With neither Communism nor Fascism the Belgian Worker's Party doesn't exist. Nor does the Belgian Labour Party nor the Belgian Socialist Party nor the Communist Party of Belgium. Examining the parties active other then those one finds that politics are dominated by the Liberal Party and Catholic Party. Labour not running in the 1894 election (the first eleciton it won seats in). The Christian People's Party doesn't exist either as their is no Socialism to oppose- most of it's members are instead part of the Catholic Party so seats won by them would instead be won by the Catholic Party. The Liberal Socialist Kartels also do not exist. The Frontpatij (representing the Flemish separtist in Belgium) still exists.The Rexist Party is the closest Belgium came to a Fascist Party and thus isn't around. The Flemish Counter Party (the Flemish National Union) also doesn't exist. In short by 1939 of the timeline politics are dominated by the Catholic Party first, followed by the Liberal Party with Flemish Separtist (Frontpatij rather then the National Union) in third. The newest political party to gain seats is the Technocrat Party. It's got the lest seats but is worthy of note. I haven't seen Technocracy come that close to political realization. It's like a meritocracy and heavy buruacracy and typically doesn't allow for popular elections but rather election by committee. But it's a minor party. The Monarchy will be effected. Albert the I returned fromt he 1st world war a hero but died in a mountineering accident so Leopold III ruled; he's reign will be different or if you like Albert can live longer. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:01, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Albert I is rather beloved in memory by the Belgian people. Albert was seriously concerned with the situation of the working classes in Belgium, and personally traveled around working class districts incognito, to observe the living conditions of the people. Few monarchs have ever done such a thing. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:04, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Initially I thought this would be simple to find out but through research it's become complicated. I thought that since the man who was Prime Minister in 1936 was a member of the Catholic Party that it'd be him (Paul van Zeeland ) but- hmm... eh... one would need a list of Belgian politicans to determine who the Prime Minister is because there is no election. One would have to look at the Catholic politicians of note from the era (no socialist or Rexist party being consulted and the catholics having the majority) and then decide. Which I've found difficult to find, but off hand- George Theunis rather then Paul van Zeeland (who was appointed partially based on socialist input) seems likely. I'd feel more confident knowing more about the poltiical situation but at the moment may feelings are towards George who was a Prime Minister in Albert's days- apparently their is no limits to how often one can be prime minister. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:06, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Great to see the Albert 1 article up. I would have liked to have been of more help in regards to the Prime Minister. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:08, March 2, 2018 (UTC)

Yes but with out hitler or those poltiical parties in belgium his rule is different. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:47, March 4, 2018 (UTC)

You've asked an interesting question so here is the brief based on my research and delayed response; politically the nation is dominated by Democratic, Calvenist (and other Protistant), and Catholic parties. In this case the Social Workers Party didn't form in the 19th century nor does the Free-Thinking Democratic Party (Social Democrate). The political parties in Belgium as of 1936 is an interesting thing to explore without Fascist or Communism. Take a look at the Dutch general Election of 1937. The three main political parties of the timeline it seems will be the Anti-Revolutionary Party (they are from what I can gather Orangist and Counter-Reformistant) and the Roman Catholic State Party (statist in Netherlands are those who support the state over the House of Orange). Other parties I see still present in the timeline are as follows; Christian Historical Union, Christian Democratic Union (Calvenist), Reformed Political Party, Catholic Democratic Party (like the Christian Democratic Union but rather then Calvenist they are Catholic), and others.... One of the man difference comes in the lack of colonial loses and the continued presense of a large Jewish population. While off topic Poland will prove interesting in that regards as the Polish had a Zionist party of sorts called the 'Minority Party'- Without fascism Zionism will be a larger movement by the 21st century. It's something I've thought of while doing this research. Baron Joshua (talk) 22:01, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

I have ^_^ and am very pleased to see it. It was a pleasant thing to see today and what reminded me to respond to your question as the sticky note I wrote is very small and - well work- but that might just be excuses... I like it! Baron Joshua (talk) 23:33, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

I've also been unable to find the information. I found this but it's not what your seeking. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:33, March 7, 2018 (UTC)

News
I read India (Fascist Reich), Brazil (Fascist Reich), Naples (Fascist Reich) and Yugoslavia (Fascist Reich) and I liked them. Keep up the good work.Atomic Annie 1 (talk) 18:54, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Turkey (Fascist Reich) just got a population figure added to it.Atomic Annie 1 (talk) 19:18, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Yugoslavia got some cities added.Bronwyn the 2nd (talk) 19:41, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

India (Fascist Reich), Russia (Fascist Reich), Albania (Fascist Reich) and Great Britain (Fascist Reich) gained cities.Bronwyn the 2nd (talk) 20:14, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Romania (Fascist Reich) gained a cities.Bronwyn the 2nd (talk) 08:50, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you have in mind with this direction regarding Poland. During World War One Germany had planned to establish a Kingdom of Poland but with an allied victory came the republic. The Kingdom was established in Regency from 1917 to 1918 with Poles helping both the Central and the Allied powers. The position of King of the Poles wasn't filled in that time as the election was pending. The regency council consisted primarily of Russian born Prince Zdzislaw Lubomirski (who wasn't interested even in being president) and Jozef Ostrowski an associate of the Russian Durma. The Archbishop of Warsaw, Aleksander Kakowski was also a member. A guiding force in the new Kingdom was Wladyslay Studnicki, a Pole of a noble and patriotic family who was hailed as embodying the act that solidified the Kingdom. Wilhelm II held a title of Polish nobiltiy but believed that taking the throne himself would not be granted the Polish people the independence they have been promised and thus would only lead to revolt. His legitimacy was the strongest for the title but he knew better then to claim it as it'd be taken as German imperialism and false promises. I found a list of Polish nobility, and while the Habsburgs where considered by the Austrian faction the regency and council where largely pro-German and the Germans insisted on a Pole (at least the Kaiser did).

I found a promising candidate whose life in OTL can provide you with poltiical material for his kingship; Count Edward Benard Raczynski who in OTL became a President of Poland. The other, who would have been more of the possible choice from a Pro-Austrian faction is Tadeusz Bor-Komorowski, who in OTL was a general in WWII. Of those two Edward I reccomend.

The Habsburg option would be difficult; as Charles I of Austria, King of Bohemia would would perhaps satisfy both the German and Austrian factions but also not create the 'autonomous' image Germany hoped to present to the world. Again the Germans wanted a Polish King. Some alternate timelines have some German general in power but that's A) not a noble and B) not a Pole and C) ignores the Regency Council and the State council's role in the election. But all this is assuming that your going with someting involving the Kingdom of Poland as established by Germany. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:45, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

That is rather far fetched- Poland did get it's independence after the war regardless though you do bring up question I had not occured to me- with out the Communist Revolt- Lenin having been sent into Russia by the Germans... without that- what happens to Russia? Did a democratic uprising happen and that uprising put down (comunist or not the revolt did want a democracy) or did a Russian Republic form (I see it's not as Russia has a Tsar)- the Poles helped both sides and both promised polish independence (thus why most of the Regency Council was Russian born) - it's complicated. Poland would be granted it's independence but could have in either case been a puppet. Perhaps your idea isn't that far fetched save in 'lack of autonomy'- ... I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Russian Empire save that the empire had vassals (think of the Cossacks) so a Russian loya King isn't that far fetched if the allies win, and they probalby still do. The question I'd be asking is if the lack of a free poland actually does anything to avert fascism- some Polish factions where close to it.... but I think nearly every nation had a version of fascism at some point- even Canada had a Nazi Party. Baron Joshua (talk) 22:29, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

Additionally this is a link I found on Poland during WWI. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPm3S6iqJxg Baron Joshua (talk) 22:33, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

This one as well; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNgxKM2Pym0 Baron Joshua (talk) 22:38, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

To continue; yeah I think a Russian sanctioned Poland is far fetched but somehow it emrged after the war. Baron Joshua (talk) 22:45, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

Not really because to my understanding Marxx never wrote the Communist Manefesto so offing off Lenin and Stalin seems needless. They wouldn't have been communist in the timeline. Baron Joshua (talk) 22:52, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

From the looks of things the Kingdom of Egypt (in OTL 1922 - 52) will still fall into being the republic but the political ventures of the Communist Party (formed 1925) do not take place so some legislation will certainly not be in place. We should probably define what Fascism is so we can avoid it as one could call the Muslim Brotherhood such if not well informed so here is a definition. Fascism draws from the right and the left so it's at times hard to pin. It's main characteristic is being a single party state invigorated by phsyical education and eugenics that rejects rule by majority but not democracy it's self by opting for persons qualified by the party to hold office being up for election in office based on their quality of leadership. They promote a middle ground between communism and capitalism- a regulated economy allowing for private ownership where disputes between workers and employers are settled by the state as a third impartial party. It sees war as a means of vitalizing national culture as war generally lifts a nation's sense of identity and togetherness. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:42, March 13, 2018 (UTC)

Well... the territory was a British Mandate at the time. League of Nations Mandates where areas being de-colonized and set up for self governmance. Without the Holocaust, and in time- the territory would become it's own nations. Recommendations included 'South Syria, Palastine, Falestin, and Palastine (in Hebrew Characters). Due to WWII  previous talks regarding the new nation where - hindered. The most supported suggestion was Palastine. However in 1947 of OTL (three years after V day in Europe) there was a civil war in the region between Arab and Israli Nationalist In response to this civil war and the holocaust Britian declared the new nation would be Isreal- which sparked the Arab-Israli War. So- without the holocaust (and thus a deep motive to create a nation for the Jews) I'd say the new nation would be Palastine; which I further support in thinking due to the mandate's official currency- yes it had it's own currency- the Palastine Pound.

Actually I just found something that implies that the civil war would still take place- the High Commissioner of the territory in 1936. Supported the idea of a Jewish state- rather specifically a Zionist Regime- so yeah- that civil war will likely still happen though with less Jewish Nationalists in the region- due to no mass exodus from Europe. .. ok so a 1936 civil war did take place- the 1947 one may not.... I'll let you look at the information.

Actually now I'm uncertain if it would have... due to no Fascism being around.... it's hard to say. The Crusader states in the region didn't have such issue as they didn't identify with Zionism- but the British openly do. ... I think that situation is going to be the same. Different- but the same. Slower even- as their isn't as much haste to create Isreal. If WWII doesn't happen you'll have to look at the mandates to figure out what new nations arise from them but in this case I believe the situation, will be the same- the Isreali population may be less supported and funded- the Arab-Isreal war or it's equivalent may end up differently but- that's further in the timeline then it's present year of 1936. We can exchance links till we come to some conclusion as this has just been my off hand response. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:10, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

Link to the mandates, each is effectively a planned nation that had the League lasted would have become members of the league. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:11, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

From the treaties the new nations would have been Jordon, Lebanon, Palastine, Syria, and Mesepotamia but this timeline isn't 'if the League of Nations had worked'. So- it's something to consider though- Jordon, Lebanon, and Palastine. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:13, March 14, 2018 (UTC) What is and where would fakestine be located?--DRAFIGO13 (talk) 08:02, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

The territory of Mandatory Palastine (you'll notice Jordon as Transjordon on the map- it was changed to Jordon latter in the mandate's run). You'll also see the location of Syria and Lebanon. Baron Joshua (talk) 09:32, March 14, 2018 (UTC) That is again assuming it doesn't fragment which seems likely. You can learn more from the article.. Baron Joshua (talk) 09:34, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

You already have Iraqi which would have made up a large portion of Mesopotamia so it's likely Mesopotamia doesn't exist in your timeline. The Capital would have been Baghdad. Iraqi effectively encompasses the territory Mesopotamia would have.

I think it's unlikely though you could give Iraqi more territory along the coast- Iraqi is pretty much minus Syria and Syria was already planned to be it's own nation. Really the only difference is the name. I can't really think of a reason for Babylon to be a free city. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:05, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

You'll have to enlighten me on T.E. Lawrence's role in early Lebanon- I know of him but apparently not that well. Also found an article on the region after WW1. You'll have to inform me how T.E. Lawrence would have impacted Lebanon. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:24, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

OH! oh! oh! Alright (looks into the formation of Greater Lebanon) ... well first off, T.E. Lawrence is a British Officer so his impact would be in the British Mandate- but let's assume that to ease transition a French official requests his presence. Let's see 1923; the constitution of the Lebanese Republic is being drafted. In OTL the 1926 constitution was heavily based on that of the Third French Republic. An oddity in this first constitution was appointment of political officials based on religious sects in the population where in the President would be of the largest religious group, the Prime Minister (like VP) would be of the second. In 1926 this meant the President would be a Maronite Christian, the Prime Minister Sunni and the Chamber of Deputies Shia Muslims. The French idea was to represent all the groups so one didn't dictate the others. As time goes on the majority would shift so eventually a Shia would be president; etc- the system is a bit flawed. In 1932 the election results displayed this and in 1936 the High Commissioner of the mandate suspended the constitution of Greater Lebanon over the issues it was causing. On paper the idea was sound but in practice it broke when the majority shifted. The people of Lebanon are not the desert warriors of British territories; due to French influence it'd be a republic but how Lawrence would convince the French to try some other system of balance is beyond me- it's hard to argue against it as it does sound stable. In fact the flaw wasn't apparent till 1932. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:45, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

It's great to see Brazil expanded on though... while I'm happy to see his Majesty Pedro II in power in Brazil I feel you should include something... I see that the alteration you've made is the military Coup being a violent one (in OTL it was non-violent). Pedro abdicated, isolated in the palace- belieivng it the people's will. It woudln't be till his exile that he learned of how unpopular the move against him was. ... you know after reading into it the coup being a violent one carried out by a faction of the military would enforce that it wasn't the people against him. The only aspect I'd request- simply due to Pedro being known for his kindness, is that with the coup being violent it's leaders are killed in the attack upon the palace with others going into a silent reclusion in response to the public's reaction to the coup. But it's up to you. I can tell why the Republic doesn't exist in this timeline as the Republic in OTL (well Republican Brazil as the republic established by the coup failed) almost sided with the Axis and may have been prompted to rise up by Pedro's abolition of slavery. So no objection - I love that you have the Empire of Brazil ^_^ As for Gran Columbia, I do not at this time know why you want it save perhaps to avoid Communist Venuzuala (but you've already killed Communism) but that aside- your question- could it survive into the 20th century and beyond? Yes- such would require something to of happened during the Gran Colombia-Peru War. It was the conflict that caused Gran Colombia to splinter- Venusuala, Grand Grandada, and Ecuador seperated from the Federation to form their own states with Colombia (in some interpretations) inheriting the Gran Colombia treaties. Talks of leaving the Federation (which like early USA was more of a Confederation at that point in history) where circulated before the war but the war was the last straw. Too many people dying for a cause their region wasn't directly invested in. Kind of like the French and Indian War was to the American Colonies. Gran Colombia can survive into the 20th century, and like the US will need to address weather it's members can leave the Federation. For the War can either divide them, as in OTL, or become a uniting force- bringing the regions together- but such would call for a more sever war where they had to rely on each other to survive. Assuming the Federation survives beyond 1830; they will likely like Australia in the 1860s decide that seceding is not an option or like in OTL become a refuge for some Confederates after the American Civil War as Gran Colombia would like Australia have a population believing in the right to form their own nations from the Federation (in OTL that's what Gran Colombia believed and established). But like any Federation it'd become tighter- especially after the American Civil War where Federalist in other nations feared such happening in their own lands. Australia didn't have a civil war so Gran Colombia isn't likely to as it's leaders would make changes to the constitution of the state to prevent such a war from happening. At least that's my opinion but South American history is violent- so don't dismiss the idea of a civil war of some kind or peaceful succession as happened in OTL (Venuzuala leaving etc with out war upon the other members). Baron Joshua (talk) 22:48, March 16, 2018 (UTC)

I think you'll enjoy this ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 20:10, March 18, 2018 (UTC)

I will help with more then that. HISTORY IT"S SELF! hahaha ^_^ For Gran Colombia to have survived I've found that two opposing factions must be considered; one led by Vice President Fransico de Paula Santander and the other by President Simon Bolivar. The VP supported separating the republic into smaller republics while the Prez supported a stronger union with a stronger presidency. In your ALT Simon's Federalist will have won that issue. This means that Gran Colombia would become not a Federation but a unitary state centralized around what we know as Colombia where it's capital is. Peru having wanted to, or rather a large portion of those in power wanted to, remake the Inca Empire desired land from Gran Colombia and wared for it. This would still happen however the Ecador-Peru War of OTL that followed (after Ecador which held the disputed lands separated from Gran Colombia and was thus on it's own in the dispute) does not. Peru recognized it's peace treaty with Gran Colombia as having been inherited by Colombia in OTL and Ecador wasn't Colombia and thus Peru determined that the treaty was null. that's what happend in OTL. This conflict simply woudlnt' take place. (I've got to go for a bit but I'll be back!) Baron Joshua (talk) 20:19, March 23, 2018 (UTC)

I'm back. To continue from the previous message, Gran Colombia's official name was Colombia. Before the nation we know as Colombia existed it was Granada; it became Colombia when the Colombian federation was being formed. Thus why Peru recognized Colombia as inheriting the old treaties after Gran Colombia became three republics. It'ws refered to as 'Gran Colombia as a way of indicating Colombia's high day- a kind of 'Golden Age'. I'm not yet up to looking into Panama but depending on the politics of Gran Colombia either A) the treaty of lease with the US will be ratified by the senate of Colombia or B) Panama will separate from Colombia asi n OTL. Though doing this research I understand now why you want Gran Colombia in the tilmeine- the nation will provide a greater level of political stability to the region and thus hopefully avert the conditions that made communism fertile in OTL. I recommend that we start with Gran Colombia surviving and build it's history from that point on with the paramaters of no communism or fascism in mind. It is after all 101 years of history that never was in OTL. 101 years of a nation that in OTL ceased to exist in 1831. So to ask what it's like in 1935 is a challenge. I know or suspect that it's highly centralized; with a government built around a powerful presidency out ofi t's capital of Bogota. By terrain alone Panama will be the least administered region- giving way to the saparatist movement as in OTL. By 1935 Gran Colombia will have found oil in the state of Venuzula. Territorial disputes with Peru will have made the two nations unfavorable to one another. A war between them (Peru and Gran Colombia) may have happened prior to 1935 but been mediated into a peace by the League of Nations (or due to Gran Colombia's combined military might have seen Peru come out far worst then in OTL as Ecuador is not alone in the struggle). The two main political parties are (like the Democratic and Republican Parties of the US) decended from the Federalist and anti-Federalist movements of the nation's early years. The two party system consists of the Liberal and Conservative Parties. Third parties exist but like OTL's Colombia do not tend to win a federal election. The largest of third parties is the Christian Democratic Party which has some positions in the states of Ecuador and Venuzula though the large gap between these 'strongholds' makes party unity difficult thus lending to the party's lack of a federal position. Typically votes that would go to them go to the Conservative Party in such elections. Gran Colombia's executive President I imagine but am not certain is likely liberal. I say this because while Ecuador had Conservative presidents in 1935, and Colombia a Conservative in that year, the Liberal government of Venuzula was overthrown by military coup before 1935- this is ofcourse something that doesn't happen in Gran Colombia but seeing how Venuzula was going Liberal before the coup in 1899 and was Democratic when the military government was deposed in 1941 I am rather certain that compared to othern ations we've observed in Europe in the Facist Riech Timeline Colombia (Gran Colombia) appears to have a Liberal head of state. I'm not certain who that is but based on deduction I have narrowed the president down to being of the Liberal Party in 1935. A sharp change form what we've seen in Europe so another exciting factor of this research ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 23:03, March 23, 2018 (UTC)

Well, to add to what I've stated and respond Jorge Eliecer Gaitan is someone to consider- perhaps in your timeline - hmm... he would be 32 in 1935 (an age where he wasn't even a mayor in OTL). He's the first socialist (founder of the National Leftist Revolutionary Union and the Gaitansta Programs who was labeled a communist by the US government) you've recommended and I have to remind myself that he'll be different in your timeline. In OTL he entered politics leading worker strikes. Again without knowing what Gran Colombia is like in 1935 (it's political, economic, and foriegn conditions) we can't make positive decisions regarding the nation's leaders. Baron Joshua (talk) 12:04, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

My reccomendation was around Simon but this Alt on the wiki has a different suggestion regarding Gran Colombia's survival. I also found that like the nations of OTL Gran Colombia (Colombia as it's officially called) will have some time of violence; turns out that in OTL there was a civil War in 1899 called 'The War of a Thousand Days ' which in Gran Colombia may include parallels to the Time of Violence in Venuzula as parts of it would take place in that region of the federation. To be honest it looks like we'll have to first begin writing the history of Gran Colombia before finding someone though I now have more support for your proposal of Jorge Eliecer Gaitan as it seems the promeninent liberals where in some fashion socialist and thus it's unlikely we'll find someone not associated with socialism in OTL to hold the office. Jorge- yeah I think that works- I'm not confident in it or another choice but I see no harm in going with that for the time being. A kind of 'stand in of the most likely' till we do more research. Baron Joshua (talk) 12:27, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

While I'm not confident in this recomendation;Aurelio Mosquera at 52 years of age.Baron Joshua (talk) 21:41, March 25, 2018 (UTC)

I do have a historical recoomendation;

The Colombian Federation

(Formation of Gran Colombia; events bring greater support for unitary and federalist positions with Bolivar as a key figure)

The Peru-Colombian War

(Peru's imperial ambitions regarding Ecuador and the war against such aggression)

Stabilization of the federation

(The Unitary, Federalist, and Confederate debate becomes forefront after the war- the Federalist winning the debate averting desolation of the union- a strong though limited presidency is established thus pleasing the federalist though not pleasing confederates and unitary statesmen though the unitary movement is confident that in time politics can bring a more centralized government to Colombia)

The Violent Troubles (1925-27)

(Colombian centralization leads to the areas of Ecuador and Venezuela being exploited for the expense of central Colombia which brings social and economic woes to those regions. A civil war erupts with in the federation)

Better Union

(With liberal forces having won the conflict a greater level of autonomy is granted to Ecuador, Venezuela, and central Colombia- separatist remain active in these regions serving as 'counter revolutionaries'. Currently Jorge is president though it's rumored that real power lies with Aurelio Mosquera, the Vice President who works to combat counter revolutionaries. Talk of a plot to kill Jorge can be heard though they are just rumors- Aurelio needs Jorge to be the face of the new government while Aurelio himself takes care of the dirty buisness- may the right hand known not what the left hand is doing.) Baron Joshua (talk) 22:00, March 25, 2018 (UTC)

Hey, I didn't get around to saying it yesterday but I don't want you to feel like I'm taking over. I like your questions, and I like  discussion. Don't loose your interest please. Baron Joshua (talk) 19:49, March 26, 2018 (UTC)

I found something else you can alter; French Commune.

I don't know about Peru-Bolivia; I'm not a fan of nations that dont' have some historical basis. Did the two ever consider a union? Baron Joshua (talk) 21:34, April 13, 2018 (UTC)

In that case, and in light of Gran Colombia still standing- I like the idea ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 21:46, April 13, 2018 (UTC)

I have indeed noticed ^_^ though as my knowledge of such regions is limited I can't comment recomendations at this time. The Better 2000s timeline is slowly setting the stage. It's been something looking at the positive press from the year 2000 regarding the east. As the timeline is focused on individuals and thier lives I've had to focus on small details which lead to larger events. At times it feels like I'm prying into things of such a private nature that I really shouldn't be but that's what makes history- people. Each and everyday. I've still not determined how to prevent the terror attacks of September 11 and due to my ground rules can't alter events in the 90s- thus what ever I choose has to be something in the 2000s; it's just such a personally sensitive event to me and many others. Preventing these types of disasters has ripples that are - something to map out. Organizations like the Arab American Institute, NRA, and even entire electiosn are effected by avoiding disaster or deminishing disaster. I still remember the 2000s though vaguely as I was rather young.(7 in the year 2000; just in Elemenary School) but I still remember things about the decade- uncertainty, suddenly fearing my own government, finding that people I would be friends with where hard to make friends with due to tensions- like I was proud to be an American more so then before- like I considered myself a patron of my state (my state still had a personal pledge of allegiance to the state that was uttered after the federal one but the state pledge was discontinued as a requirement during the 2000s). I know that there will still be dread in my life even in this timeline but I figure it's worth a shot to imagine a decade that was better- not perfect no because the 90s still set in motion things but better- in personal ways for many people. It may be hard to remember what one was doing before 9/'11 but I met a Witness (Jehovah's Witness) who was in New York when it went down. I find myself imagining his life had 9/11's twin tower attack not happened- he'd have spoken at the - I think they call it a Worship Hall- as his organization was preparing to (If I recall correctly) discuss how the Witnesses where doing around the globe. The event shook everyone there just as it did my family- I didn't really start to feel the anxiety till middle school, around 2006- and then into the 2010s. It was like the world was or is ending. ... I have a lot of anxiety at times but I keep it down. I think I digressed from the question; I'm still finding out who the heads of state are in the world in the year 2000 to set the stage for a better decade- again nothing from the 90s or prior has been altered.The 21st century is just getting a better start. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:55, April 13, 2018 (UTC)

RE;NationInfoBi
You welcome. Use instead. --JorgeGG (talk) 12:37, January 26, 2018 (UTC)

Monarchist World Discussion
I can certainly used some suggestions as despite the ideas presented on the forum most of my concepts involve alternate media in such a world, and seeing how you've been working on a timeline with out communism or fascism I'd like to hear anything you can suggest regarding Sweden. Politically the earliest POD I have is the English Commonwealth not coming into being, which I imagine has an impact on English colonialism etc. I didn't want to go so far back in time with the POD as to make the world unrecognizable and thus decided not to prevent the formation of the Roman Republic. The Kingdom of Rome is of such a nature as to be a subject that's hard to accurately research and indeed the King was chosen from local chiefs- like the Ceasar of the latter Empire was chosen from the senate. While I have ideas for media and England (along with Brazil) I've yet to devote myself to concepts outside such spheres and am thus welcome to your ideas regarding Sweden and other parts of the world. Baron Joshua (talk) 20:54, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

Such would be vonderful though I can't make any promises :) I'll have to examine New Sweden (I have considered what it'd be like if Sweden held onto the colony and even noted such as a POD idea for the use of those on this wiki) again and how it was lost. I do however feel that Sweden will likely be a more absolute monarchy (again feel so until I do research that's where I stand). I remember reading about how powerful Sweden use to be, even watched a video on the subject. You've hightened my interest in the region. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:08, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

Thank you greatly  :) Upon reading your message I did some touch up on it. It's getting late here and I have work tomorrow but I hope to make something spectacular out of this. I have after all waited 10 days (7+3) to adopt the timeline ahhahhaa :) So I should do something grand with it :D Baron Joshua (talk) 01:57, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Turns out that the English Civil War had an impact in North American and it looks like, upon study of Maryland, we'll see 'Lords of Maryland'- a nobility in North America. A bit like how the Virginia Planters where in OTL except with actual manors and the title of Lord and a seat in the General Assembly of Maryland much like the House of Lords. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:09, February 3, 2018 (UTC)

Greetings, I've come to ask for some ideas. Remembering our discussion about New Sweden and seeing how I've come to the year 1652 in the timeline thus far, I see that in OTL the Second Northern War begins in 3 years. At present the situation in the new world is as follows; New Netherlands and New Sweden lay between the English Colonies of Virginia and Maryland.(around modern day New York and New Jersey). I've yet to examine the conditions surrounding the establishment of New York as a colonial holding of Great Britain though I know it came after the Dutch had already claimed New Sweden during the Second Northern War in 1655. The conflict isn't of a nature where I can effectively instate a bias as the Dutch Republic and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth are in fact both Monarchies of some degree.... though limited. I am considering a bias towards Russia and Sweden... I'm just asking for your thoughts regarding the next few years. I have a lot to consider from France to Italy as Europe in OTL erupted into a great many conflicts from the mid 17th century (c. 1650) into the late century. For example, the Republic of Venice (governed by a Duke) goes to war. I'm fragmented in thought and with out focus so any direction even if unrelated to the Second Northern War is welcomed. Like, maybe a country I have not considered yet or a way to further presere the French monarchy. Just thoughts regarding where to go with the timeline post 1652- nothing too far ahead from there but still in the 1650s. I don't want to get too far ahead and have to redact something latter ahhahaha Baron Joshua (talk) 22:52, February 3, 2018 (UTC)

So, I'm now posed with 'the Swiss' Question in Monarchist World. As in I could attempt to prevent the formation of the Swiss Confederacy or alter the outcome of the Swiss Peasant War of 1653. At least as far as I can tell thus far. For example, Switzerland was under Charles the Bold of the Kingdom of Burgandy but formed a confederacy after various victoires against Charles.the Bold. It's a step back further in the timeline but I don't think It'll impact England enough to prevent the civil war so no issue- thought I'd get your opinion on the subject of Switzerland for consideration. Baron Joshua (talk) 15:14, March 3, 2018 (UTC)

Creating Articles for the "Sake of It"
Please refrain from creating articles for the "sake of it." By that I mean creating them and not taking the time to expand the information. On many of these articles, you don't even bother to remove the automated "write the [...] section of your page here."

This will not be allowed. Your most recent articles have been marked for deletion, while others have already been removed. Please take the time to write out your articles before before creating new ones. Thank you. -- 17:18, January 31, 2018 (UTC)


 * ... just follow the rules (simple as that). You have been creating articles and leaving them bare for weeks now. I have no intention of banning you, but if you wish to remain immature and ignore your faults, than you will be. -- 17:36, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Your articles weren't going to be deleted today or any time soon. This is simply a warning to get your act together. I will not remove the articles marked for deletion for several weeks (provided the issues with them are addressed). -- 17:40, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Grammatical Help
Hi, I saw that on of your Facist Reich Pages, it had a few grammatical mistakes. I could fix them on your pages, if you want. I’m not sure if you want help, but if you do, please respond. Thanks

AlthistWriter (talk) 17:23, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

Lost Legends and Lost Continents
Just saw Iram Pillars of the Sands the city of Brass addition to the timeline. I've not forgotten about your atlantis request. I'm interested in seeing what you do with this. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:25, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

Here we are. I've designed this for Atlantis. Atlantis means 'Island of Atlas' and here we see the titan represented by two hands holding up Earth (represented by it's Alchemical symbol) over which Atlantis under the sun has dominion with it's light (civilization) radiating in blue. Baron Joshua (talk) 19:06, February 3, 2018 (UTC)

A pleasure! I enjoyed making this one! :D Baron Joshua (talk) 21:45, February 3, 2018 (UTC)

I noticed that with your timeline you've stated in the 1900s and- I guess your working back? I'm curious as to what you have planned. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:31, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

I'm aware of this, but wouldn't Columbus have sailed into Atlantis placing it's discovery prior to 1912? Baron Joshua (talk) 22:30, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

I see it wasn't united till 1625, so how much of the legend still stands in Lost Legends and Lost Continents? I do agree that the events of Plato's story are difficult to include. Plato's story has Athens as a republic in ancient times (Plato's Republic) and it's capacity to repel the Atlantian Invaders when other nations of the known world failed was used to illustrate the superiority of his government model. To resolve most of the world being under Atlantian control Plato has the island sink into the sea ending their Empire which shatters without a central authority. One interpretation is that the original city of Atlantis was destroyed by a natural disaster and with it so ended the Monarchy- what followed was a period of disunity which saw the ancient holdings of Atlantis become the Aztecs, Myrans, Egyptians, Iberians, Rome, and the Greek states that had fallen to emerge free from their conquers with Carthage founded soon after. Meanwhile back on the continent the Atlantians proper fragment into military dicatorships which upon unification have evolved into the present government. Baron Joshua (talk) 01:28, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Portugal
It would most defiantly have been His son, Duarte Nuno, who took up the claimant of the King of Portugal when his father, the previous ruler of Portugal before the overthrow, died in 1932.

It depends, many people could just say it never happened, but to make this more interesting, yes, it’s a very possible possibility that the 1926 coup could of failed, and the monarchy could of stayed in control. Though with this failed coup, the Portuguese government and military would be weakened, as major and high ranking officials and military personal would be purged and/or exiled. We could see Portugal being a very unstable nation, as the main reason that the monarchy was overthrown was because the people were tired of the bad economic conditions and how the king wasn’t doing anything about it, as Portugal was in a very chaotic political and economic mess during World War 1, and so the coup was met with support from the people. With all this instability and tight government control with the King ruling like an autocrat, upon the death of King Manuel II, irs likely Portugal would collapse into all our civil war, if not, at least an attempted uprising. Republican Forces and Royalist Forces would fight each other in this hypothetical civil war, and its likely that this would rattle Portugal for decades to come, and would further destroy the already ruined Portuguese economy. The History Nerd

Re:Japan
Alright, Wo to clear things up about japan:

Japan was never fascist, it was a semi-constitutional monarchy under a de facto statist, nationalist, military dictatorship.

Hirohito didn’t have control over the actions of the military’s action during world war 2, as the military had a doctrin of “Military Independence”.

Hideki Tojo was behind the war crimes committed by japan during WW2 and the interwar period, and was gave the order to bomb Pearl Harbor, not Hirohito. So now that these common misconceptions are out of the way, let’s talk about this version of japan. Japan would be releativly the same in this timeline, as it never really subscribed to a certain ideology, nor did any ideology influence it during its history (besides maybe fascism, but that still doesn’t mean it was fascist). Japan would most likely stay an ally of Britain at this time, since they don’t have an expansionist Nazi Germany to team up with, though this Anglo-Japanese alliance would be very uneasy, as japan really wants Britain’s colonies in Asia. I’m guessing since the USA is in a civil war in this timeline, japan would take advantage of this and seize US owned territory in the pacific (excluding Hawaii). Now another thing to understand is that Japan was in economic turmoil after World War I, so it most likely would stay this way for a lot longer if it isn’t solved how it was solved In our timeline. China would most likely still be invaded in this timeline, but only for Manchuria and other parts of China that are valuable to them, but since japan doesn’t have an expansionist nationalist military dictatorship in this timeline, it doesn’t expand further into China, and in fact, might insititute a Joint-Chinese-Japanese Administration over Manchuria, as Japan can’t handle a war with China in their economic state.

Anyway, this is the basic explanation of Japan without Fascism and Communism. Hope you like it! The History Nerd

Re:Russia
Well, since I’m your timeline the Russian Empire Survives, it most likely would still be very unstable, but not as unstable as if the boleshiks made it in our timeline. It’s most likely Tsar Nicholas II would rule like he wanted to rule: as an absolute divine monarch, and keep autocratic rule in Russia. It’s most likely under his rule, his government would’nt be to keen on granting huge grants of autonomy to these territories, but it would still give it’s Territories that are ethnically different as Autonomous Territories, except for Belarus and Ukraine, and maybe the baltics (that depends on how much the Baltic peoples are fed up with foreign rule, but they would defiantly be annoyed). Polish Territories in the Russian Empire would almost defiantly become Independent, but i don’t know the fate of Poland in your timeline (please do tell me), but if not, super autonomous, as Russian’s control over them would basically be impossible if they held on to the territory to the 30s. Tsar Nicholas’s government would still be very unpopular in Russia, and Russia would be in economic turmoil, especially after the costly Great War, and many republican and anti-monarchist movements would pop up in Russia, and we could see iconic communist revolutionaries such as Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin be freedom fighters and advocates for democracy. Stalin in this timeline might just stay a priest, depends. The Russian Empire would most likely administer the caucuses with autonomy, and face releative support amongst Georgians and Armenians, but maybe not so much for the azerbajinis.

So yeah, that is basically how Russian territory would be administered. Vast chunks of autonomous territories and rebellious peoples, the Russian Empire would be a shadow of it’s former self. The History Nerd

Re:Mexico
The empire couldn’t have survived, as communism and fascism didn’t really have an effect on it, nor did the Emperor have a lot of Support from the Mexican People. Mexico would most likely still be a Republic, or a dictatorship. Mexico had a revolution in the 1910s, and the Mexican Government and Nation were very unstable at this time, so it’s likely for this to continue if the Mexican people are still unhappy with their government and economy. Of course, this is speculation, as it’s most likely Mexico would stay the same, as (sorry, I’m not a genius on Mexican history so do bare with my little knowledge of post revolution Mexico) as it looks like after the revolution there was no civil war, nor overthrow of the government. But if you want to make Mexico interesting in this timeline, then go with my first suggestion, but I guess the 2 major changes would be that the Mexican National Synarchist Union (the fascist party of Mexico) and the Communist Party Of Mexico wouldn’t exist, but those were minor parties in Mexico, so no major differences.

Hey so I saw you Fascist Reich page and I just would like to point out some things. One the title is a bit misleading it sounds to me like a German victory. Next Fascism would still exist even if Hitler died. The National Socialist Party of German Workers, Nasi or Nazi, party would still be around most likely. Maybe under a different name and not as prominent. But in Italy Fascism would still be around. Mussolini though may not join it as he was first a member of the Socialist Party so he may not join it. SO Fascism would be around just less prominent.

Re:LoN
I don’t think so. The League of Nations was an over all failure In our timeline, and the bringing of world war 2 just finalized its disbandment. The League of Nations might be disbanded and a new “Organization of Nations” might be created.Colgan dog (talk) 13:20, February 20, 2018 (UTC)

By giving more authority and power to the new organization.

Second Duplication

 * You weren't informed about uploading a duplication because your file and the standard file are two different file types (SVG vs. PNG).


 * It is your job to check whether a file is a duplicate or not. You can read the guidelines to find out how, but it isn't difficult to do. You were given this exact same warning previously, and you still failed to follow them.


 * This strike will remain as is. -- 22:35, February 22, 2018 (UTC)

... You do know that all file names are required to have the file type at the end of them? That's what the ".svg" or ".png" mean. The aforementioned files above even show them (↑). File naming 101. -- 23:00, February 22, 2018 (UTC)


 * I certainly do apologize for my actions, you certainly don't deserve it. But to be blunt for a moment, I find it very hard to comprehend your recent actions. You went an entire month misnaming articles (despite being shown by me and others how to properly name them), and now you're informing me you have no idea how files work. From my prospective, this shows that you are either new to computers or not even trying to listen.


 * Once again, you certainly didn't deserve the attitude I've been giving off. For that, I'm deeply sorry. I look forward talking in the future. -- 23:57, February 22, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Cuba
Cuba would most likely stay an unofficial US puppet state. It most likely wouldn’t stay a dictatorship forever, but it most likely would be democracy, but with the US heavily influencing, maybe even manipulating the results of it. Colgan dog (talk) 04:09, March 2, 2018 (UTC)

World of Nikola Tesla
You've been working on articles about rulers in your Fascist Riech timeline, and you've asked me for insight on a lot- but now I ask you for some opinion. The World of Nikola Tesla is a timeline built around well- Tesla- his hopes, vision of the future, political thoughts, etc. He was a proud Serb- when attending school in what was then the Austro-Hungarian Empire he stated a Serbian Culture club on campus. Even when World War One broke out, even as an American citizen Tesla worked to help Serbia (indirectly) via the American War Effort- the 'patent' disputes and other legal battles he entered to undermine the Central Powers only deminished his own funds and where he was once admired in Astro-Hungary he became detested as a traitor- he lost most of his European investors as many where Austro-Hungarians. He was financial spent after the first world war. In the months before WWII he offered his nation the so called 'death ray' but they didn't adopt it- he feared an invassion of Yugoslavia and then tried the allies. He got one buyer- the Soviet Union but when the Soviet's showed themselves to be somewhat in line with the Nazis he canceled the shipment and the order before it could be sent off. Yugoslavia did fall and Peter II was exiled. Tesla got to meet Peter II, and according to Peter had a heartfelt message about Yugoslavia of which the King noted in his journal. To fullfil that wish, I - feel the need of your insight. Details of the alt-hist can be found in the category.Baron Joshua (talk) 23:34, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

Like- insight on Peter's rule after WWII, and what Yugoslavia is like. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:37, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

I know that Peter II will be King. *does some research* Yugoslavia was a Parliamentary Monarchy prior to WWII with Prime MInisters. In OTL Federal Democratic Yugoslavia replaced it in 1944 (under British pressure Peter II recognized the new state)- which shortly after recognition officially adopted Communism  (1 year latter)..This came about from (as seen in the developer notes regarding Peter II) the allies supporting communist insurgencies against the Nazis after the monarchist faction lost thier favor. In keeping with Tesla's wishes however the outcome of the war has to be Peter II retruned to Yugoslavia to be a great ruler. One of Tesla's, who by then was an old man, reliefs regarding Peter II was his youth. As Peter II's youth gave him a life time to adapt, learn, and better the state. But I can tell already that it won't be easy. Yugoslavia wasn't the most stable of nations. It was formed after WWI to hold the most qualsome of the Balkan population to 'internalize' ethnic strife- the hope being that such would avoid another world war and you can say - at least I consider that- a success as WWII didn't start in the Balkans. Baron Joshua (talk) 09:42, March 15, 2018 (UTC)

Well it was worth a shot and you've provided assistance. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:36, March 16, 2018 (UTC)

Don't know if you've seen my response regarding Gran Columbia yet and not wanting you to miss the message and think I didn't respond I'm mentioning it here but that's not why I'm messaging you under this section. I found something interestin   though since Nazi Germany survives I don't know- oh wait I do know now- since it's the world of Nikola Tesla the allies will liberate the land sometime before the war is over (Nazis divided Yugoslavia into ethnic states like Croatia, Slovenia, etc during thier occupation). I think Nazi Germany will hold Polish lands- I don't know how the war concluded but from the looks of things Italy did fall first as in OTL so the 1940s, perhaps even 1943 saw the war in Europe conclude- maybe- It'd be great to have more quotes from Tesla on the subject of the war. Baron Joshua (talk) 14:57, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Uploading Issues
I'm deeply sorry to inform you that we've been under attack by a troll over the past week. Wikia has taken steps to block this individual from the Wiki, but this may also be affecting the actions of other users (such as yourself). If you are still unable to upload files after 12 hours of receiving this message, please let me know and I will be more than happy to help. -- 15:47, April 4, 2018 (UTC)

Discord invite
This is an invite to our community server - the Althist Discord!

Here is the link:

https://discord.gg/5tTD7f

We'd be happy to have you.

              Deadly State of Mind    Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  16:13, April 4, 2018 (UTC)

No Unified Nations
This concept THRILLS me! Baron Joshua (talk) 22:06, May 1, 2018 (UTC)

While the USA isn't a 'Nation' in the classical sense but rather a more modern sense, I have noticed your addition of South Carolina. For the states you can have earlier PODs then 1886 and should consider that in the timeline the British isles are not united- meaning the colonies as they are in OTL probably didn't exist. Meaning that the entire map of North America will be alien in this timeline with perhapes Welsh holdings in North America (New Wales) and Castile (which unified Spain in OTL) not having holdings but rather Portugal. Baron Joshua (talk) 09:33, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

I - eh... I don't know what your doing because the colonies became those areas. With out the colonies you don't have South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, etc. Without a unified Briitsh Isles you don't have the Royal Navy, with out a unified Spain you lack the Spanish Armada. Colonization will have taken a different course and thus what becomes of North America will be different. People have reasons for going to the new world and with out a united British Isles you'll have to research the laws of the states (Wales, Scottland, England) to figure out if those or new conditions exist and what society the settlers will establish. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:29, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

Your missing what I'm saying- you might not even have a USA in this timeline. You can't jump from pod to pod with out following previous pods through. Let's start with the British Isles; the UK- you say it's split in two? Did you plan on Scottland to leave in an as of yet reached 21st century or just Ireland to be it's own republic? What's the UK's condtion? Baron Joshua (talk) 10:44, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

Good to know that we're cool ^_^ I asked about spain because of California- and New Spain. A way to express how North America will likley be different. For example; California might- and I say might as Idk for sure- be called Albion. The division of Spain is why I brought up Portugal... though I now realize that Columbus may have as in OTL not gotten Portugal's support. It's- complicated. '_' Baron Joshua (talk) 22:57, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

When I state that Columbus might not get Portugal's support I was referencing this;link.. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:59, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

while I've only recently woke up I've decided to give a shot at responding* Due to the family connections between the Scottish and English thrones; and having briefly looked upon Elizabeth I of England who successor James VI and I was King of England and Scotland; that Robert Devereux succeed in taking the throne. Alternativley because that suggestion is probably the result of morning mind; Elizebeth has a child thus her Scottish cousins don't inherit the throne; - but even that solution has complications though it may be recieved as more plausable. The era in question isn't one I'm greatly familiar with so some of this may seem silly to someone with more knowledge then I. Baron Joshua (talk) 09:44, May 3, 2018 (UTC)

With new understanding that the timeline is set in 1936; yes that sounds good. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:20, May 5, 2018 (UTC)

I'd rather not discuss the Americas in this concept as previous attempts to do so have been fruitless on my part. Baron Joshua (talk) 11:03, May 5, 2018 (UTC)

Well... eh... ok- you from what I've seen tend to work backwards... as in rather then working forward from you earliest pod (Spain not Unifying) you've elected to start in the year 1936- and look back to figure out how the world came to be. Such is difficult at times to work with. In this scenario an issue regarding the definition of 'nation' also comes into play- for example- Germans where Germans before Germany but if you where to ask where Germans are from you'd get Germany as a response. They a tribes of people sharing common ancestry, and language who inhabit of particular region. Such is a nation. It's what inspired Nationalism- the drive to unite a nation (of people) into one state (German Empire/Kingdom of Italy/Kingdom of Spain). ... I can't remember where I was going with the previous statement.... With North America and the Americas it's important to note that the colonies established by Europeans became the nations we know in OTL and that with out European intervention the Americas would still be technologically behind- much like Africa before colonization- or Japan before unification and modernization. One can look into Africa for an idea of what could have become of the native nations if mass colonization was delayed by a century or two- Portugal took much land despite it's small size so the fragmented Europe isn't going to prevent this. What will be altered is who settled what region and how those settlers interacted with the population- smaller states tend to be more interested in trade (Dutch and Portugal for example). In fact- this reminds me of Courland's colonization efforts .. Still, with out the Spanish conquerer much of the land the nations of the natives will have to either modernize (like Etheopia in Africa) or eventually the Americas become split up much like Africa- such is what I imagine but I'm not set on that image as we wont truely know till we've examined the Spanish states in Europe and determined a few other factors like Columbus. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:42, May 5, 2018 (UTC)

Edit - actually, a free Courland would be something, would a Spanish state in this timeline also prevent the colonization of Tobago or would it have become Couronian in culture and that culture surive into the 1930s? Baron Joshua (talk) 23:44, May 5, 2018 (UTC)

Spain has a history that I find rather complex though form what I can gather we're going to have to somehow prevent the union of Castile and Argon (which I hear isn't that hard to do but since I've not looked into the matter- I can't say). After we do that we can determine how to handle Castile's conquest of Southern Iberia; Aragon will likely aid this conquest to rid spain of the Moors... but success is another matter.... I'm unfortunate not well educated on Spanish history. I get the impression that Aragon and Castile would still defeat the emerate (as the war was an effort of many European powers) yet not having a united crown the territory would perhaps... remain it's own entity loyal to Aragon... or Castile? Or perhaps this question would lead to a compromise of it being it's own thing... eh... the era is one I'm not that familiar with. I can work with the 20th and 21st century well and a bit of the 19th and 18th but any further back and I'm lacking. ... eh... that's interesting. Columbus was present when the Emerate's Sultan surrendered. That's- interesting. Eh... well I'm learning more- The Emirate of Granada was a Tributary state of the Castile-Aragon throne... a vassal of sorts. But such came about after he invaded Castile- Aragon and Castile where in union after the invassion. But- let's assume - OH OH IV'E GOT IT! Muhammad XII of Granada invades Castile, the marriage between Isabella and Ferdinand doens't happen- Granada becomes a tributary state of CASTILE- Federnand can't invade Granada due to this- focuses on more northern Iberian holdings perhaps? Ferdinand did do a lot of conquests in OTL. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:03, May 6, 2018 (UTC)

Tobago link  Baron Joshua (talk) 00:05, May 6, 2018 (UTC)

This situation gets more complicated by the paragraph '_', I can't find anything to really suggest how to avoid the union. If Joanna won the civil war- well- then Portugal would take Castile's place in unifying Iberia... I think. ... UM.... well- we have to go a bit further back- um ... ... maybe forward... AH! FOund something. It wont prevent the union thus the Emerate would still fall but the official formatino of SPAIN wouldn't happen if the revolt succeded- Castille would remain ti's own state and the rest of what became Spain shatter. It's not what we where after but it works in so far as keeping the Spanish a divided people.. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:30, May 6, 2018 (UTC)

Good gravy look at the that would have resulted had that revolt succeed! Baron Joshua (talk) 00:32, May 6, 2018 (UTC)

While I have not recieved confirmation on if the above proposal is being used I shall assume such. Queen Joanna la Beltraneja (cliament to the throne) was considered by the Revolt but she turned them down in OTL (she had previously lost a Civil War some years prior). When this happened the rebellion took on an anti-feudal mentality and in fact began to establish a Republic. They had tried to put Juana the Mad in power (daughter of Isabella and Ferdinand) at first- but their move to instead establish a republic hurt their support. The decision was made by the revolt's leaders due to - well- Juanna being insane. It's considered the first 'modern' revolutions. Assuming then that Castille became a- let's say Italian inspired republic with Spanish titles This article may help with devising it's culture. OTL remembers 1930s Spain for the civil war and thus finding some politician to be head of state of Castile (as shown in that map above) is - a challenge. Carlos Romero Giménez is a promising candidate though he's a military officer. I've been exluding persons not born in the territory. Perhaps Castille; already being a Republic, instead simply experiences typical politically rival elections with out a civil war. Perhaps they have a communist uprising; perhaps socialist are elected or are not as popular due to years of republican rule. But right now Carlos Gimenez is my only suggestion. Without a monarchy to seek to restore Franco (born in Galacia) isn't likely in power. More likley someone who is an 'unknown' in OTL- someone whose career was 'snuffed' by the civil war is president but alas we can't work with that due to a lack of information. Baron Joshua (talk) 01:53, May 7, 2018 (UTC)

Well, since Galacia is held and Castille a monarchy  I suggest looking at the nationalist side of the Spanish Civil War in OTL for potentional MPs unless one desires a more Social Monarchy- examining Portugal's history may help in regards to what situation the Castillian Monarchy is in. It seems to me that the Spanish Civil War will happen but instead of all of Iberia the civil war is in Castile between Royalist and Republicans. Franco is from Galacia which is held by Castile so he may be MP in this conflict as the Republicans would largely consists of Socialist as the nation is already democratic in regards to a limited monarchy and powerful parliament. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:03, May 7, 2018 (UTC)

There wouldn't be any real reason for Fascism or Communism not to exist the question is mearly how influential they become. The only way I can see a Communist state arising in this timeline would be if such had enough support in one of the German states and even then the German states are quite small. Fascism probalby wouldn't be in power but rather 'Italian Unificationist' and 'Scandinavian Nationalist' would still be a thing- as in rather then Fascism you have organizations still seeking to unite the nation rather then revitalize it. Baron Joshua (talk) 20:29, May 7, 2018 (UTC)

I like the Jaime I page though I've not looked into the details I just think it looks good. What I mean is I like how it looks and he just seems right there but I've not looked into the details of who he is or any of that to know if it works.. Baron Joshua (talk) 14:00, May 12, 2018 (UTC)

It looks lovely but lacks details. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:01, May 14, 2018 (UTC)

eh... my computer messed up- I got a used one to rpelace my old one and it's giving me trouble. I had a detailed response but to avoid missing out on giving one here is the wikipedia page. I mentioned it because Tobago in OTL was taken by the Spanish but spain isn't united when that happened in OTL. It's an example of how the Americas may differ. Here are the links; Jacob Kettler, Dutchy of Courland and Semigallia , Couronian colonization of the Americas , other efforts. I had a good presentation of \this information but again I can't risk my computer messing up again. Plan to get it looked at soon. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:35, May 14, 2018 (UTC)

A complex solution would be to look at the lower Couronian aristocracy but a quicker solution to that question is to- in this alternate history have Johnanna Katherina Biron (who it seems didn't do anything of note in OTL) born John Biron thus providing a male heir without altering the marrages of the other female issue of Peter von Biron. The Duke in 1936 can thus be a fictional Biron; a speculative decendnet of Peter von Biron. Such duke could be named William, Fredrick, John, Jacob- or another such name which seems to fit with those of the Dukes past. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:36, May 15, 2018 (UTC)

I'd need to know what you have going on with Russia- I had assumed it never existed (that Keiv Rus failed it's conquest) but see now that I was mistaken. I think it sounds like a good idea though since I don't understand what has happened with Russia I'll still suggest that you look into how Siberia was colonized but- the page looks good and sound. Again I can't say much without knowing what happened with Russia and the Slavic nation (as Pan Slavic movements would say). Also I found a Prussian noble family called Biron von Courland (it comes from those daughters of Peter von Biron). I've used the image of Karl Biron von Courland as a stand in for Fredrick von Biron as Karl looks a lot like Peter to some degree. I hope the page addition isn't intrusive and the mention of Latvian nationalism (due to Latvian being a language in the country) isn't too far. Also I realize that as the Duchy is soviergn it should be Grand Duchy (a Grand Duchy is soviergn while a Duchy is not). I hope I've helped rather then hindred. Again the articles you have on Siberia and Kolchak are vonderful. Baron Joshua (talk) 20:19, May 15, 2018 (UTC)

I'm pleased and joyed greatly to be of service and am eager to see the template applied ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 21:48, May 15, 2018 (UTC)

I like the article ^_^ I'd really like to know what happened to Russia, as again I assumed it never formed. Knowns such would allow me to make more insightful comments though I suppose it's not that importat as just like with Courland we can 'trace back' to find out the history of the land. As in retroactively write out how the present (1936) came to be.by back tracking to figure out how some one came to be at thier post. It's not how I usually write but it's interesting to do.I usually start at the Point of Divergence and move forward but doing the hisotry this way with the retroactive perspective means that until I get that far back I won't know how Courland kept Tobago. I'd like to know the political situation on Tobago and how it's society differs form that of OTL due to the courlish influence. I began to wonder as I wanted some idea of what issues Courland is dealing with; specifically regarding it's colonies. Thought perhaps the Diet would be discussing colonial reform.Baron Joshua (talk) 20:28, May 16, 2018 (UTC)

In addition to the above, a proposed article;

Lithuanian Nationalism (No Unified Nations)

Lithuanians are an ethnic group of the Balts family inhabiting the Baltic region. A desire to form a linguistic and ethnicly unified Lithuanian nation has persisted since the fall of the Kingdom of Lithuania, and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. At present Lithuanians are divided by feudal boundries among the holdings of various monarchs. Plans to unify the Lithuanian nation struggle with this situation and with the proposed boundries of such a statel. At it's largest propposed boundries the nation would extend from the Baltic Sea in the north down to the Black Sea in the south (historical boundries of the Grand Dutchy) with land claims also on that territory to the west inhabited by Prussian Lithuanians. At a more agreeable boundry the nation would be consigned to the Baltic Sea where the actual ethnicity and language is concentrated. Certain sects of the Lithuanian Nationalist consider Latvians to be Lithuanians (as midieval texts refer to them by the same name); such a group is also known to propogate what is considered a Livonian forgery- a document by the last Grand Duke of Lithuanian which granted the land to the Livonian Order. The Duchy of Courland and Semigallia was formed by the Polish King after the Order's defeat in the Livonian War. The new Duchy was to be Lutheran with Lutheranism being the primary relgion among Lithuanians.(for OTL reference the smallest would be Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia as far as the nationalist are concerned- in this timeline such land is held by other powers I think). Baron Joshua (talk) 23:47, May 16, 2018 (UTC)

OH MY yes I do! I just looked up the Golitsyn. I now know Courland's northern neighbor and this is getting very interesting. I had to check a few maps to confirm that you have not made an error in regards to territory.Any idea what nation borders both Courland and Ingria? I'm getting very excited; and I hope you don't mind but I gave Fredrick one issue so far; Josephine von Biron (born 1927) she's 9 years old in 1936. Josephine is his first child. I hope she will prove more interesting as she matures and we learn more about the royals and nobles of surrounding lands. I think you've picked a great choice; you've irntroduced me to a house I had not heard of before and to Ingria which I think iis interesting- that once we start moving the timeline forward things will get interesting in Europe. But before we do we still have to get things ready; set the stage to use a theater term. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:16, May 17, 2018 (UTC)

That's interesting to know, but my question was what nations borders both Courland and Ingria as theire is a space of land between the two. Karelia is north of Ingria and thus does not border Courland which is south of Ingria and seperated by some land in that region. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:42, May 18, 2018 (UTC)

Let's see... we know the Tuetonic Order has existed in this timeline based on discussion regarding the Baltics. Hmm.... I have found two major points where in Gotland could be it's own country. The first is in 1398 when it was sold in OTL by the Teutonic Order to the Kalmar Union as part of a peace deal. Weather or not the peacetreaty is with the Kalmar Union or Scavia, or another state does not matter. In OTL the Danish/Swedish monarchy gave it a Ting (governor) and it continued to be Danish/Swedish land. In 1806 Sweden offered the island to the Knights Hospitaller (Knights of Malta) but the order refused as it'd mean giving up thier claim on Malta. Since I still do not fully know the history of the No Unified Nations timeline I suggest that for it to be it's own some back and forth among the surrounding states commulated in Gotland indepdendce after the people became tired of the lack of a stable governorship on the island. Alternatively the knights do accept but again, that would mean giving up on claiming Malta which I imagine you want to be it's own nation as well. Baron Joshua (talk) 12:52, May 19, 2018 (UTC)

Cossacks, a map of the administrative divisions of tsarist russia <- the atonomous Okrug's are a good start. for example - Khanty-Mansi . Baron Joshua (talk) 13:27, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

Communism spawned in Germany via Karl Marxs so you may want to consider if any of those states are communist. I suggest that before determing what form of communism if any is in the state that you start with the lives of the men behind the ideology- examining where they where born, to what state in this althist, and what surrounded them. In such you will be able to determine the condition of the ideology and the form it has taken. With that said, I'd like to know what recent histoyr has happened in Europe in the Alt. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:17, May 21, 2018 (UTC) As in read a bio of Marx for example, and imagine how his life is different in your timeline. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:21, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

Welcome back ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 09:38, May 30, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay I saw the message some time ago and then tired after work forgot to respond. I think it means that Courland will still have lost Tobago; but that Castile wouldn't have gone as far north as California in North America nor as far south as Argentina- with Portugal perhaps having more South American holdings.. Baron Joshua (talk) 18:08, June 3, 2018 (UTC)

OH! Alright! ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 20:51, June 3, 2018 (UTC)

That is intriguing. Baron Joshua (talk) 14:08, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

The venice article is brief with little information pertaining to the timeline, and I'm unable to locate the Milan article. The venice one certainly needs expansion. Baron Joshua (talk) 15:32, June 9, 2018 (UTC) I found Ambrossia (Milan) and am interested in seeing what is written about the War of Preservation. Baron Joshua (talk) 15:33, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

Better 2000s
Hey Drafigo13, thanks to LacedUp's contributions the Better 2000s timeline has moved from September 2001 to the year 2004. It's not much on the timeline right now but it's something. Thought I'd get your impression thus far. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:17, May 3, 2018 (UTC)

Page Titles
Hi Drafigo, just letting you know that you titled a couple of your recent 'No Unified Nations' pages without proper capitalisation in the title (i.e 'No unified nations' rather than 'No Unified Nations'). It may not seem like much, but having all articles in a timeline consistently titled helps hugely when keeping this place tidy. So if possible could you rename the offending pages and make sure you title future pages consistently. At a quick glance the only misnamed pages are California and Naverre (which also I've noticed is spelled wrong). Just keeping you on your toes :) FP Now 10% edgier!!! 12:09, May 9, 2018 (UTC)

Naming Articles... Again... Again
As mentioned before, please remember to be correctly naming your articles. I have been doing this for your last few articles, but please remember to do this yourself. Thank you. -- 00:41, May 12, 2018 (UTC)

... Answer
The files in question were removed because they were all files taken straight from Wikipedia/Wikimedia. The file you uploaded of Scania's flag is actually a duplication (but I opted to not give your a third strike and suspended you for it). The other two files I would've manually corrected once you submitted your article that used them, but you have yet to do so.

In this regard, I gave you a pass on your third duplication and removed files that weren't being used. -- 21:18, May 21, 2018 (UTC)


 * Once you submit your article that includes the files in question, I will go in and correct it for you. I will revert your edited map. -- 21:38, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

Gustavs III Sweden
Hello. I was reading your timeline "Gustav IIIs Sweden." It seems very interesting, and is a good concept. I look foward to seeing how the world will develop!

Warrior

This file should work; https://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/File:Scandinavis_flag.png Baron Joshua (talk) 20:06, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

It took me a bit to find who you where talking about. He'd be Gustaf the VII (7th) Adolf - his father being Gustaf the VI Adolf, King of Sweden. Baron Joshua (talk) 23:11, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

It looks good ^_^ It'll be great to see it expanded. Baron Joshua (talk) 01:08, July 11, 2018 (UTC)

New Idea
Thanks, I've been a little tired today- tired since I got out of bed but I've been trying to be active online. I've mostly been playing Kaiserriech (the Hearts of Iron 4 mod) and thinking of making my own mod for the game. It's been a while since I've made a mod for a game so I'm a bit out of practice. Doing research for my idea- a mod that starts in with the build up towards the 1st world war and on into the cold war- I've found out a lot of historical information I didn't know when I tried to answer the question of "what would the world be like if Germany won world war 1?" Some sites say it wouldn't matter, others that France would be fascist, and others that- well- I hear a lot and I'd like to try to explore history regarding that topic. For this wiki I'm thinking of a scenario where neither Russia nor the USA got involved in the first world war but- due to being tired I'm not that focused yet. It's one scenario I've considered but- I'm so foggy of mind that I'm unsure about it. Your thoughts on such a scenario? Right now I'm thinking that Germany will get African territory but loose it's pacific island holdings to Japan. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:11, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Why Russia woudln't get involved

1 - Rasputin

2 - Cousin Willy

Baron Joshua (talk) 00:19, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Oh wow! This Gustav III timeline is interesting, I hope to see more pages on it! Your getting really good at this. ^_^ I shall provide you with more information on the USA and France- I'll start with France; *does some additional research * so it turns out that if Russia didn't go to war with Austria-Hungary that France wouldn't be called into fight, and not being called into fight would leave the British out of the conflict. This would, I now understand also mean that Germany wouldn't get any overseast territories out of the war but would likely get a German Europe- in regards to Central Europe. I would suspect something like a Hegemonic European Union where Germany has economic dominance in the region. I also imagine that the Ottoman Empire wouldbe concerened- I suspect but do not yet know for sure- that this might maked them an Enemy in the war but I haven't looked into the Empire yet. Still- interesting that if Russia didn't declare war the confict would have been focused on central Europe and not a world war. I do realize that Russia would go through political turmoil as in OTL - with the rebels seeking to join the war rather then stay out of it. Meaning I see pan-slavic aristocrats opposed to Rasputin starting a conflict in the state even while other uprisings take place. Baron Joshua (talk) 13:16, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Sure what you need a flag for? Baron Joshua (talk) 23:39, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

The Great Peace--Offer
Hi,

In The Great Peace, I'm playing as Yugoslavia, and I'd like to invite you (Persia) to this meeting: https://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Zagreb_Conference_(The_Great_Peace_Map_Game)

I hope that a global alliance of medium-sized, non-aligned nations can help us stay protected and prosperous.

Vatonica (talk) 00:59, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

Gustav IIIs Sweden
Sorry, my mistake, I will correct that - F  P  09:07, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

Whoa! Dude this does look well done *starts reading* dude that is some detail you got there. Yes I'd say this is your best article thus far! Baron Joshua (talk) 22:37, July 27, 2018 (UTC)

British
Not brittish

Bil Mesa AZ EoGuy99 (talk) 14:44, August 1, 2018 (UTC)

Frederick III Lives
That sounds interesting! Frederick's politics will certaily set a different foundation to the stonework that makes the German Empire. One might even see closer ties to Britian. I don't know as this is the first time I've heard of him. Regardless I'm eager to see what you do with this. Baron Joshua (talk) 00:39, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I was thinking how about instead of the cancer just- not existing- why not have an early diagnosis and successful treatment? He'd have trouble speaking this is true (at least I think since it was the Laryx) but it's more alternate history then alternate reality - at least that's what someone I talked to said of it. By that I think they meant more believable. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:10, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

Excellent! ^_^ Baron Joshua (talk) 22:02, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

This will certainly be a challenge I think to research. I was just thinking about it and we'd need to compile a list of the Riechstag and research who was in politics during Frederick III's reign to get an idea of what reforms would pass and where those politicians would be should (or when) Frederick reforms the government under a British model. What I propose is an article like my own 39th United States Congress article for the National Union America Timeline. Both that scenario and this one regarding Frederick involve one where a head of state whose riegn/presidency ended by premature death and both will be looking at politics. The main difference thoug his that the National Union America timeline is being biased- slanting politics in the National Union Party's favor while 'Frederick III Lives' is not which is part of what makes me thrilled to be involved in research regarding the Reichstag should you agree with the creation of such an article ^_^ I myself would be more comfortable with you creating the article and myself adding to it and sharing what I discover with you as we discuss how things may turn out. Baron Joshua (talk) 10:19, August 15, 2018 (UTC)