Talk:Principia Moderni IV (Map Game)

=Official Business=

Map Complaints
I've had my Saxon post deleted, i wasn't actually electing Wenceleus IV and saying "He's now king" I was merely openly backing his claim! User:KingSepron 8:16 (GMT) KingSepron (talk) 07:15, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Hi there! On the current map, Cologne is lacking its additional territories in the Duchy of Westphalia - could these please be attributed to us? On this map (Map ) of the HRE in 1400, "z. Ebm. Koln" indicates that the Duchy of Westphalia (Hzm. Westphalen) is Cologne's land in addition to the general land near the Rhine and the land associated with Essen. Let me know if you need any more information! Thanks, Nonsensicaljourney (talk) 02:04, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

For reference, here are the labelled maps from last game (keep in mind that the current map is designed with this and other maps as resources). 03:45, July 16, 2016 (UTC)

Leave of Absence
If you plan on leaving the wiki for a while and will not be able post in the game for a while, please leave a message here telling us for how long you will be leaving and whether or not you have someone else you would like to play as your nation.

I'm going to be on a road trip with potentially no internet from 11th July - 14th July. If the game happens to start before I get back, and if I somehow don't have internet, I give Callumthered permission to post for Cologne and Essen. Nonsensicaljourney (talk) 00:20, July 9, 2016 (UTC)

Algorithms
All algorithms will be done under this section.

Format
War Name (Heading 4)

Front Name (Heading 5) (Only if there is more than one front)
 * First Stage
 * Attacking Side - (Total)
 * Population -
 * Casus Belli/Motive -
 * Government -
 * Weariness -
 * Defending Side - (Total)
 * Population -
 * Casus Belli/Motive -
 * Government -
 * Weariness -
 * Second Stage
 * Attacking Side - (Total)
 * Army Size/Navy Size -
 * Location -
 * Great General/Admiral - (No = 0, Yes = 60/80)
 * Attrition -
 * Blockade (Naval Only) -
 * Blunder - (Leave Open for Mods)
 * Defending Side - (Total)
 * Army Size/Navy Size -
 * Location -
 * Great General/Admiral - (No = 0, Yes = 60/80)
 * Blunder - (Leave Open for Mods)
 * Difference -
 * Side 1 Casualties -
 * Side 2 Casualties -
 * Result
 * Side 1 Score -
 * Side 2 Score -

Example Algo - Castillian Conquest of Grenada - 1403

 * First Stage
 * Crown of Castile - 12.1
 * Population - 6.1
 * Casus Belli/Motive - 5
 * Government - 3
 * Weariness - -1
 * Emirate of Grenada - 10.8
 * Population - 2.8
 * Casus Belli/Motive - 5
 * Government - 3
 * Weariness - 0
 * Second Stage - Siege of Grenada
 * Crown of Castile - 15.25
 * Army Size/Navy Size - 15.25
 * Location - 4
 * Great General/Admiral - 0
 * Attrition - 0
 * Blockade (Naval Only) - 0
 * Blunder - 4
 * Emirate of Grenada - 9
 * Army Size/Navy Size - 14
 * Location - 5
 * Great General/Admiral - 0
 * Blunder - 10
 * Difference - 6.25, Crown of Castile Wins
 * Crown of Castile Casualties - 1,875 Men
 * Emirate of Grenada Casualties - 14,000 Men (Half of Army)
 * Result
 * Crown of Castile Score - 12.1
 * Emirate of Grenada Score - 4.55
 * Castile has a 7.55 point advantage.
 * Grenada unconditionally surrenders since capital is captured.

Timurid Invasion of the Golden Horde [1400]

 * First Stage


 * The Timurid Empire = +86
 * Population = +100 [Timurid Population ~ 50 million]
 * Casus Belli = +3 [Historic Rival]
 * Government = +3 [Warlord]
 * Weariness = -20
 * The Golden Horde = +11
 * Population = +8 [Golden Horde Population ~ 4 million]
 * Casus Belli = +3 [Extensial Threat]
 * Government = +3 [Warlord]
 * Weariness = -3
 * Second Stage


 * The Timurid Empire = +98.5
 * Army/Naval Size = +37.5 [Timurid Army ~ 75,000]
 * Location = +1 [Near a Major River]
 * Great General/Admiral = +60 [Timurlane]
 * Attrition = +0
 * Blockade [Naval Only] = +0
 * Blunder = -3
 * The Golden Horde = +86
 * Army/Naval Size = +75 [Golden Horde Army ~ 150,000]
 * Location = +6 [Center of Government] +5 [Moderately Well-Fortified] = +11
 * Great General/Admiral = +0
 * Blunder = -5
 * Difference - 12.5 for Golden Horde
 * Side 1 Casualities = 3,750 for Timurids
 * Side 2 Casualities = 12,500 for Golden Horde
 * Result 


 * Side 1 Score = 86
 * Side 2 Score = -1.5

Hasfid Conquest of Tlemcen

 * First Stage
 * Hasfid Sultanate + Eygpt - 10.94
 * Population - 5.44
 * Casus Belli/Motive - 2.5
 * Government - 3
 * Weariness - 0
 * Tlemcen Kingdom - 11.1
 * Population - 0.1
 * Casus Belli/Motive - 8
 * Government - 3
 * Weariness - 0
 * Second Stage
 * Hasfid Sultanate - 16
 * Army Size/Navy Size - 7
 * Location - 9
 * Great General/Admiral - 0
 * Attrition - 0
 * Blockade (Naval Only) -
 * Blunder - (Leave Open for Mods)
 * Tlemcen Kingdom - 12.4
 * Army Size/Navy Size - 0.4
 * Location - 12
 * Great General/Admiral - 0
 * Blunder - (Leave Open for Mods)
 * Difference - 3.6 against Tlemcen
 * Hafsid/Egypt Casualties - 1,100 men
 * Tlemcen Casualties - complete massacre
 * Result
 * Hafsid/Egypt Score - 9.94
 * Tlemcen Score - 7.4

Cyprus War of 1402

 * First Stage


 * Genoan-Castillian Alliance - 15.04


 * Population - +.16 (Genoa)+4.88 (Castile)=5.04
 * Casus Belli/Motive - Seizing Colony/Vassal from Rival (Genoa):+3. Honoring Allaince (Castile)+5
 * Government - +2
 * Weariness - 0
 * Defending Side - 20.32


 * Population - +.16 (Cyprus)+ .16 (Venice)
 * Casus Belli/Motive -+6 +5(Cyprus)+ 6(Venice)
 * Government - +3
 * Weariness - 0
 * Second Stage


 * Attacking Side - 2


 * Army Size/Navy Size - 15,000 men= +5
 * Location - +5 (Genoa owns Famagusta)
 * Great General/Admiral - (No = 0, Yes = 60/80)
 * Attrition - 0
 * Blockade (Naval Only) - No
 * Blunder - -8 (Confirm RNGs with Josh)
 * Defending Side - 6


 * Army Size/Navy Size - 7,000:+2
 * Location - +5 (Fighting near Famagusta)
 * Great General/Admiral - (No = 0, Yes = 60/80)
 * Blunder - -1
 * Difference - 9.28 in favor of the defenders


 * Side 1 Casualties - 9,000 men
 * Side 2 Casualties - 2,700 men
 * Result


 * Side 1 Score - 17.04
 * Side 2 Score - 26.32

Disscussion
This first year is the push from Famagusta into Cyprus. I did some assumptions with the numbers from Venice (6,000 including assumed mercinaries) and Cyprus (assumed 1,000). Cyprus-Venice can launch a counter attack if they desire, but unless they do the war ends with Cyprus gaining economic independence from Genoa.

Bahmanid Invasion of Andhra (provisional, needs mod)

 * First Stage


 * Bahmani Sultanate = +35
 * Population = +32 [Bahmanid Population ~ 20 million]
 * Casus Belli = +5 [Religious]
 * Government = +3 [Itqa']
 * Weariness = -5
 * Andhra = +14
 * Population = +8 [Andhra Population ~ 5 million]
 * Casus Belli = +3 [Existential]
 * Government = +3 [Feudal Monarchy]
 * Weariness = -0
 * Second Stage


 * Bahmani Sultanate = +
 * Army/Naval Size = +58.8 [Bahmani Army ~ 170,000 men and 650 elephants]
 * Location = +1.5 [Near a populated border]
 * Great General/Admiral = +0 [none]
 * Attrition = -10 [mountains]
 * Blockade [Naval Only] = +0
 * Blunder = -? Mod Needed
 * Andhra = +
 * Army/Naval Size = +6.2 [Andhra Army ~ 16,000 and 25 war elephants]
 * Location = +6 [Near Center of Goverment]
 * Great General/Admiral = +0
 * Blunder = -? Mod Needed
 * Difference - Awaiting Blunder score
 * Side 1 Casualities = Awaiting Blunder score
 * Side 2 Casualities = Awaiting Blunder score
 * Result 


 * Side 1 Score = Awaiting Blunder score
 * Side 2 Score = Awaiting Blunder score

Disscussion
If a mod was supposed to do this instead of me, I apologize. I based the population numbers off a number I found for all India, and approximated from that. I put a religious cassus belli due to the Muslim-Hindu struggle for India as well as Firuz Shah trying to assume the mantle of the premier Muslim ruler of India. I based the army sizes off the battles involving the Vijayanagara Empire and the Mughals. Mogadishu is treaty-bound to join the Bahmanids, but pending Sultan Umar's word, I have not included any forces they might send.The Guardian of Forever (talk) 01:25, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

Also, I counted each war elephant as 100 men.The Guardian of Forever (talk) 01:56, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

Korean Civil War [1403]

 * First Stage
 * Pyongang (rebels) - 13.2
 * Population - 3.2
 * Casus Belli/Motive - 7
 * Government - 3
 * Weariness - 0
 * Busan (loyalists) - 13.4
 * Population - 6.4
 * Casus Belli/Motive - 4
 * Government - 3
 * Weariness - 0
 * Second Stage
 * Pyongang - 7.6
 * Army Size/Navy Size - 6.6
 * Location - 1
 * Great General/Admiral - 0
 * Attrition - 0
 * Blockade (Naval Only) -
 * Blunder - (Leave Open for Mods)
 * Busan - 12.4
 * Army Size/Navy Size - 0.4
 * Location - 13.3
 * Great General/Admiral - 0
 * Blunder - (Leave Open for Mods)
 * Difference - 4.8 against rebels
 * Loyalist Casualties - 1,400 men
 * Rebel Casualties - 4,800
 * Result
 * Busan (loyalist) - 12.4
 * Pyongang (rebel) - 8.6

Vijayanagaran Invasion of Orissa [1403]
=General Discussion=

MGOC
Stupid formaility but as it is a map game do you not have to get MGOC approval? Just asking but yeah I just don't want someone to say for some reason the game can't start because you filed the wrong form. Person67 (talk) 21:50, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Well Scraw is an admin so I think he doesn't need permission. --The Epic Dragon (talk) 22:16, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

So the MGOC applies to everybody except from the admins? Awesome history 28 (talk) 16:00, June 21, 2016 (UTC) I thought the admins were part of the MGOC which means they could self-except. The Epic Dragon (talk) 19:53, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

No not all of them are. Plus the new MGOC we all get to vote so yeah even if it just a formality the fact that he and all the other are mods are admins has no influence. Person67 (talk) 05:50, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Game will need to be approved via MGOC, mods and admins do not get exceptions. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 19:36, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Well if this isn't approved then okay. --The Epic Dragon (talk) 01:11, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Once it gets the map up it will get approved. I mean it is PM but getting approved is something which needs to be done. Person67 (talk) 14:45, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

On the map, what is 'Gonds?' I don't see it on the signup list. (On the map, it's in Central India.) Forgive me for my ignorance ahead of time if it's some simple thing I overlooked. --The Guardian of Forever (talk) 21:49, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Another problem with the map is that Germany,France,and Italy aren't united yet. The Epic Dragon (talk) 23:07, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Can we start the game and is it ok as me signing up as Constantinople/the Roman Empire ok? The Epic Dragon (talk) 04:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Germany and Italy weren't united until the 19th century. France was not united in 1400 either. If this is your knowledge of history I hesitate to allow you Constantinople.

19:03, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Temporary Leave
Hi I'm going to be going camping from 27 June-3 July. If the game starts by then I give Andreas.martonosy permission to post as Denmark during my absence since Sweden is a Kalmar Union member. KawaiiKame (talk) 03:59, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Let it be noted for the future that this right here is one of two proper ways to inform us of leaves of absence. Don't say it on chat or on the game page. Put it here or on a mods talk page or both, with clear start and stop dates if possible. #PraiseRoosevelt. 17:01, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

As an update, please now post your leaves of absence under the new section on the talk page, including all of the great details KK did here. Thank you, 20:40, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

To Why My Name Was Removed
Sky and FP told me it was fine if that i asked them to play as England in the game. Just confused to why my name was removed. - Scarlet Outlaw

Tondo
Is the kingdom of Tondo a playable country? It already existed during the afformentioned time period. If yes, I would like to play as it. Erizium (talk)

Map
If you want a map of Europe you could use [] The Epic Dragon (talk) 18:46, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Do we have license to use stuff from Euratlas? They say that all their stuff is under full copyright. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 19:56, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Never mind and it was the best map I could find I know Italy was never United until 1851 and France was feudalize.It was the best map I could find The Epic Dragon (talk) 22:41, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

For the twiddly Kleinstaaterei of the HRE: [] Callumthered (talk) 04:05, July 9, 2016 (UTC)

Late Post
I will be posting late tomorrow. --The Epic Dragon (talk) 00:00, July 16, 2016 (UTC)

Kost's Browser Crashed
http://prntscr.com/btwv4v He told me to post this as his turn. Wrto12 (talk) 09:14, July 17, 2016 (UTC)

Kost is Indiana Bones... just to be clear. Wrto12 (talk) 09:24, July 17, 2016 (UTC)

On Algos
I'm sure this was somewhere, but I can't find it: Can anyone write up an algo for a war involving their nation or does a mod do it? If the former, which side or coalition member?The Guardian of Forever (talk) 02:55, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

I think (i'm not a mod) that it's okay if you do an algo yourself, but the result is not final until a mod has checked over the algo. Shikata ga nai! 14:10, July 19, 2016 (UTC)