Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flip back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

OK, this stuff with China and France has to end NOW. It's total bullshit at the moment. That large head of the French colony should not exist. The whole colony shouldn't exist, as a matter of fact. Collie, I understand that you want to leave the French room for expansion, but right now, it's rule breaking and game screwing.

Also, Nuovo Italia vassalized Novorossiya, did it not?

21:12, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, this is getting crazy. I know you have a thing for late posts - but 3/5 of my posts were on time. How is Japan's Tojiko expanding at the same rate as my colony when my colony is expanding at 64000km per year, which gives me atleast 192,000km in 5 years (or atleast 3480px). Japan on the other hand is maxed out at 49750km and is expanding at almost the same rate as me. You have expanded my colony by 1373px. I am sorry but that is 2000px less. Please take a note and do the needful. Thanking you,  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:45, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

This thing with France is getting ridiculous. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 03:14, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw, the Colony does exist, and Crim Perhaps we could make a treaty to stop this and i quote Scraw "Game screwing" colony shape. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 13:36, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

And I've been vassalizing the Boer state in south africa for 5 to seven years so... Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 13:38, October 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * You want them, you go to war for them. The Boers will not get vassalised. That is the same for Scraw. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:28, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

The Olympic Games Master list
This is the list of current Games participants as drafted by the Olympic Gaming Commission.


 * 1) Aragon (1850)
 * 2) Australis (1868)
 * 3) Carthage (1856)
 * 4) Castille (1850)
 * 5) China (1868)
 * 6) Cyrenaica (1850)
 * 7) Gaul (1856)
 * 8) Germany (1850)
 * 9) Greater Transcaucasia (1872)
 * 10) Hellas (1850)
 * 11) Hungary (1850)
 * 12) Imperium Africana/Ethiopia (1850)
 * 13) Italia (1850)
 * 14) Kanada (1850)
 * 15) León (1850)
 * 16) Levantine (1850)
 * 17) Malacca (1872)
 * 18) Maya (1850)
 * 19) Navarra (1860)
 * 20) Neu Berlin (1850)
 * 21) Novorossiya (1872)
 * 22) Nuovo Italia (1850)
 * 23) Orissa (1850)
 * 24) Persia (1856)
 * 25) Portugal (1850)
 * 26) Preorate of Pure Science (1850)
 * 27) River Lakota (1872)
 * 28) Romania (1850)
 * 29) Russia (1850)
 * 30) Scandinavia (1850)
 * 31) Selk'nam (1850)
 * 32) Siam (1872)
 * 33) Suur Suomi (1850)
 * 34) Tsingapore (1872)
 * 35) Yagich Rafael (1850)
 * 36) Yugoslavia (1850)

Discussions.
On the side of the nations, the year of their first participations.It'll be a good way to track the growth of the future Games.Ah, and just one thing.in the 1850 Games, Neu Berlin is at the same time in the 12th and the 22th place in the standings.Which is the actual position of Neu Berlin?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:39, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Labelled Map
































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<p style="font-size:13px;">New labelled maps :P Scandinator (talk) 16:43, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">I think it may be time to update the maps as a lot of territory changes have occurred in the last 50ish years.Andr3w777 (talk) 01:00, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

I have updated the Europe labelled map. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 10:09, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

It has been updated again. However, some parts might not be fully accurate. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:08, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Religion Map


<p style="font-size:13px;"> Colors:

<p style="font-size:13px;">Catholic - Light Blue <p style="font-size:13px;">Reformed Churches - Blue <p style="font-size:13px;">Apostolic Church - Deep Purple <p style="font-size:13px;">Kappelists - Dark Blue <p style="font-size:13px;">Eastern Orthodox - Mustard

<p style="font-size:13px;">Ethiopian Orthodox - Yellow <p style="font-size:13px;">Islam - Green <p style="font-size:13px;">Nestorianism - Light Green <p style="font-size:13px;">Hinduism - Teal <p style="font-size:13px;">Buddhism - Pale Green

<p style="font-size:13px;">Taoism/Shintoism - Light Purple

<p style="font-size:13px;">Carthaginian Nestorianism - Light Red <p style="font-size:13px;">

<p style="font-size:13px;">So, after my last Religion Map was received pretty well, I have decided to make... another religion map! Along with this map, I will add a little bit of commentary, ever so boldly of myself following my latest ban! Anyhow, this is all to be taken in an ATL fashion, and not as a violation of NC/NC. As always, mods may feel free to remove this map or invalidate/change it.

<p style="font-size:13px;">So, lets go into a continent-by-continent ananlysis of the world map as shown by religion!

<p style="font-size:13px;">Europe - There is only one faith in Europe, and that is Christianity. But ever since the Great Schism in the late days of Rome, the Christian Church has been divided. This division grew even further with the arrival of Kappel, and the later reformation of German and Italian churches. Later even, Brython co-founded the Apolstolic Church, which is located out of Europe but centered in the Americas.

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Stability - Divided into 3 primary groups of Christians, 8/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Devotion - Weak faith is present in secular states like Italy, 6/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Asia - Now, Asia is the largest continent, and also the most diverse religiously. Moving east from Europe, first Eastern Orthodoxy is prevalent, then Nestorianism in the Levant and in Persia/Baghdad. Next is Islam in Arabia and Central Asia, followed by Hinduism and Buddhism, and finally the unique religions of Taoist/Shintoist faith of Japan.

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Stability - Islam is falling, or may rise again?, 6/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Devotion - Strong faith in Eastern Asia, 8/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Africa - By far the most prone to religious conflicts *Looks to mods for events* Africa houses a large variety of religions. South Africa, which had largely been Nestorian, is now shifting Hindu, and Mali still clings to Islam, although isolated by Christian nations. The unique Ethiopian Orthodox is common in the interior, and is most likely the most practiced African religion. Carthage's recent Nestorian conflicts are intriguing, and Madagascar still holds Islam dear, as well.

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Stability - Crazy colonization has lit a match!, 3/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Devotion - In order to survive, drastic measures may be needed, 9/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Americas - I will not go into a ton of detail about religion in American colonies. Naturally, they mimic their motherlands. I will, however, express the distinctly American religion, which is Apostolicism. This religion, co-founded by the Selk'nam, has spread to encompass Kappelist beliefs, which have intrigued the average Mayan, and also now the Apache peoples.

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Stability - Devout Christians make the majority, 7/10

<p style="font-size:13px;">Religious Devotion - The Apostolic Faith in addition to motherland faiths, maintain religiosity, 8/10

<p style="font-size:13px;"> <p style="font-size:13px;">That's All Folks! 09:43, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Mostly good although only the Apache, not the Mayans, are Apostolic (not for lack of trying on my part), I think at this point Tojiko in Africa may also be majority-Apostolic although that's Kogasa's call. He's been building more churches than temples there lately. Also the south American Japanese ex-colony Byakuren has conerted to Buddhism from Shintoism - that's what spurred their independence. Commandante Lemming (talk) 13:48, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Actually, Byakuren converted from Taoism to Buddhism. As for Tojiko, they are a majority Apostolic (mainly Jīdūhist and Amaterasuist), with a decent amount of Shintoism. -Kogasa  2013 September 26, 17:58 (CET)

<p style="font-size:13px;">I fix what Commandante Said, The mayans are mostly germanic and Keppelists. and Carthage is due to being Isolated, in the sense of religion,(Due to lack of contact with the Levantine) Carthaginian  Nestorianism, Influenced Heavily by Catholicism. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:34, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Good fix but.

<p style="font-size:13px;">Tojiko (Japanese Aftrica in OTL Namibia) needs to be Dark Purple (Apostolic).

<p style="font-size:13px;">Byakuren (Japanese South Chile), should be Light Green (Buddhist).

<p style="font-size:13px;">Should Maya be Kappelist dark blue or royal blue Germanic.

<p style="font-size:13px;">Also a number of nations have regional religious divisions so we can talk about whethr that is good to include (for instance my West is Taoist)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:14, September 26, 2013 (UTC)



<p style="font-size:13px;"> <p style="font-size:13px;">I made this map, using the latest 1730 map, and the old Religion Map as a guide. I do not claim this to be official, but please add/edit/update it as you feel needed to do so. If the mods don't like this, please take it down, but I only want to help. Reximus55 (talk) 10:35, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Since Callumthered had asked me what was the situation of Catholicism on Europe, i went to do a coloured map of this.it got big, so now this became a incomplete world map.dark blue represents Kappelists, blue represents breakaway churches, light blue represents Catholicism, light green represents Nestorianism, green represents Islam, and yellow-brownish represents orthodoxy.it is still incomplete.Obviously, this is political too, as some nations will have some state religion, but the population will follow other one.Anyway, i don't know the Arabian Federation's state religion, to start with.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:48, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The Arabian federation doesn't have a state religion, its dominantly Islamic though. Many branches of Islam though, but I'd say Sunni or Ibadi Islam to be dominant. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:51, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">There would be a lot more ortododox wrong...-Lx (leave me a message) 19:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">What do you mean?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:36, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Well, Russia is very wrong on that map. just look at the russia I made, and then you will see the real face of orthodoxy. you did your annexations horibly wrong. you made moscow a seperate state, and now Minsk is not longer in personal union. You should realy use my map, because at this point I think you just want an excuse to piss me off so you can purposefuly get me banned.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:07, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The latter is not the case.in fact, i sometimes think that Scraw is being implausible just to have something to complain about, so he can get me to quit.We might be able to work this out, when it comes to Minsk.are you a hereditary monarchy?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Russia has an old novgorodian style Elective Monarchy. The Tsar was a firm believer in Russian unification, and once he gianed the title of Tsar of Minsk through marriage, since he wanted at the least unified russian realm under one Ruler, and he did not want his efforts to be in vain when he died in case his son did not become the next Tsar(elective monarchy) so he had the two Crowns linked, although he kept the title of duke of minsk to his own family, the title of Tsar of Minsk and Tsar of Novgorod and Russia were linked. I find it is good logic, but If that's too complicated you can consider it like an act of union/annexatoin and ignore the part about a seperate Duma being built in Minsk.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Yes, this sounds like a good logic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:27, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Just saying, but shouldn't Bijaur be hindu? Considering I have expanded my influence there and introduced anti-muslim laws and the Trimurts have been converting people like crazy? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 07:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Update time? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC) <p style="font-size:13px;"></li> <p style="font-size:13px;"></li> </li>

Industrial Algorithm Modifiers and Industrial Era areas and rates.
I have a proposal to modify the algorithm to put into perspective the colonial wars of the 18th-20th century. An algorythm multiplier would be applied to all wars with the side with a higher stage gaining 10% extra for each stage higher they are. Nations with two stages use the higher when defending and the lower when attacking. Scandinator (talk) 04:59, April 28, 2013 (UTC)



Stage 1

 * The Air Furnace is developed
 * Agriculture begins to rapidly shift with fertilizers and rest years for the fields
 * Chemistry develops in leaps and bounds

Stage 2​

 * Steam Power is developed and water wheels are heavily utilized
 * Various chemicals are produced in large amounts
 * Health care and anatomic understanding improve, birth rates still high but death rates on a massive decline
 * Urbanisation begins on a significant scale

Stage 3

 * Paper mills develop with the tech to produce large reels of paper
 * Cloth factories begin using machines and steam power to increase productivity massively to keep up with population boom's clothing demand
 * Railways appear
 * Some revolutionary rumbles appear

Stage 4​

 * Civilian railways appear allowing easier access
 * Stronger cements are produced
 * Steel and Glass are avaliable
 * A few colonies and nations will have rebellions in this period

Stage 5

 * Ironclads and Artillery become widely used in combat
 * Revolutions by poorer citizens in cities become frequent

Stage 6​

 * Tanks and planes appear
 * Total War emerges with populations also targetted
 * Nationalism appears in larger multicultural nations

Stage 7

 * Atomic age begins a decade before the start of this age with certain nations able to make nuclear weapons
 * Wars between atomic powers CEASE, due to the threat and consequences of nuclear war
 * Colonies rebel for independence

Discussion
I'm extremely confused. Also, I think the industrialization chart should be corrected, as Scandinavia has been vanquished.

16:08, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see no need to remove them, as they have already been removed.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:07, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I like this one better than it's predecessor, mainly beccause there are more divisions here, allowing for a more accurate representation of the country's standing. Albeit, there are a few things that could be amended. CourageousLife (talk) 16:22, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Same here. Much better. And what is confusing Scraw? It is pretty simple to understand once the map is up showing industrialisation levels. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:27, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, it's for the map.


 * 17:16, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

It needs some corrections, as some characteristics are too late or too early for their times.Such as: We should move the appearing of railways to stage 4, and their spread to 5, to start with, After all, when we talk about railways, this implies steam locomotives, necessarily.And, steam locomotives in 1770?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:04, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * That isn't too far-fetched. A viable steam engine existed in 1782, it just took a while(about 20 years) before people to realise it could be used for rail transport. A two-cylinder steam engine was invented by a Russian in 1766...it had great potential, and could have perhaps accelerated the development of the steam locomotive by a phew decades(maybe only 10 years to say: put it on a fracking train) but The Empress ditched the designs in favor of a more "Brittish" system(i.e. hydraulicaly cooled that required close water supply...this lagged locomotive construction). So...RUssians could have built locomotives in the 1770s...but the empress wanted to stay close to brittain, and brittish-style tech, so that slowed many things...and because of that, the twocylinder stam engine was scrapped.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:42, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, unlike the last game, the East is on better footing with the West, and thus will breed even more competition. I think this is completely fine if you ask me. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:42, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've done the research in the industrial era. For whomever industrializes first, these technologies do not suddenly appear. It is gradual in within each stage. Scandinator (talk) 11:42, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

I would think that, like in PMII, crimson would be a fraction of the main natino around the nation's "heartland/capital" area, and the rest of the nation would get industry red. And colonies would industry get a colour under their founding nations, etc... However, I am worried about the ammount of colours...in any case, I do believe that orange and yellow(or at the least orange) should get planes at the same time as red and crimson...technology and trade would change to the point that...well...those nations could do thema t the same time...-Lx (leave me a message) 18:43, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

I feel like one of these (red, yellow, orange) should be removed. Also, shouldn't Europe (closer to Italy) be receiving industrialization faster than the Middle East?

21:21, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Not that the map is bad, but I would say that the coast and Dehli should be joined up as they are prime industrial locations. Doesn't really change anything, but it looks nicer, lol. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:33, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian Federation should really industrialize earlier than its vassal of Baghdad I think. Albeit just industrializing along the coastal regions like Oman and Qatar where the majority of my urban population lives. The Nejd won't see industrialization for many years later. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:15, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

China would industrialize quicker than the yellow rate due to their extensive trading, especially with Orissa and Italia. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 17:20, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

I too feel that China should be in orange.

I also find it strange that both Georgia and Austria are in orange while Germany itself is in yellow. Not to mention that Germany was higher than Russia on the chart and closer to Italy than Russia.

21:25, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Aren't any of these going to be addressed?

17:25, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'd so something about it since I'm a mod, but I'm not sure if I have clearance for this map. CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 18:20, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

You know, I'll edit it since, not only does it seem like the plausible thing to do, but worst-case scenario, they'll revert it and yell at me a little. CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 16:53, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I think there should be less of orange China, as lots of those areas would be presently unsuitable for industrialization.

22:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

It's just a buffer between red and yellow.

CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 05:44, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

I like how Germany is on the same level with the Dimurat and Siberia.

23:06, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

As per my post on the page I'd like to propose that the point on Steel and Glass is changed to "Steel and Glass become mass producible". Also I now have both light green and yellow industrial stuffs in my nation so how does this affect my industrialisation? Kunarian TALK 06:54, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Based on precedence, I'd say no, as I've conquered both orange and red territories. I'm in orange, so realistically speaking, I only got red land but no red rights. So I'm pretty sure the answer is that you will not advance.

21:06, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

I just want to propose one change. I think orange should enter Stage 6 in 1900, and Stage 5 in 1865.

18:34, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Guys i think France Should as of 1820 - 1830 be entering the Red stage, after all the Industrialization process as a player nation has grown eversince 1720 if not earlier, and france has enough resources from their relative states ( Such as the colonies or Vassals). Sine dei gloriem (talk) 03:55, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Shouldn't france be entering red, or have some patches of land in Red ?. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:53, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Th Selk'nam are shown here in my map color not with an updated industry score (doubt I've passed most European powers for industrialization). Am I still sky blue or should I move forward? Commandante Lemming (talk) 02:47, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Special NPC bonus nations
Hey so these nations are special Non Player Countries because these nations used to be part of a powerful empire which ruled lots of the world, hence they are stronger than normal nations.

This bonus is worked out like the normal NPC bonus; where in every very year that a NPC nation is not at war or expanding, or having a disaster, it will build up one of the three development areas (military, infrastructure and economy). The number of total buildups will be divided into the three categories as evenly as possible, with preference going infrastructure>economy>military. With their final score will be divided by two then rounded to the nearest whole. However the special NPC bonus doesn't divide by two, so it is just the number of total buildups.

E.g. If a nation existed for 15 years, or spent 15 turns not doing anything, this would mean that the infrastructure, military and the economy were updated in five turns each. The NPC nation would receive fifteen points of bonus, five for each department (economy, infrastructure and military).

The nations with this special NPC bonus are as follows:

The Middle East Africa
 * The Republic of Turkistan
 * The Sultanate of Baghdad
 * The Sultanate of Kuwait
 * The Kingdom of Dimurat
 * Mangystau
 * Ha'il
 * Buraydah
 * Khafji
 * Saudi Arabia
 * Ar Rayn
 * The Arabian Federation
 * Oman
 * The Emirate of Shaybah
 * The Caliphate of Hejaz
 * Najran
 * The Emirate of San'a
 * Aden
 * Hadhramaut
 * Salalah
 * Socotra
 * The East African Federation
 * Sukuma
 * The Kingdom of Nyamwezi
 * Mbeya

Protectorate rules
Seeing how some nations are getting protectorates I think we should make the rules about them clear. As far as I'm concerned they aren't as good as vassals so they should be treated as NPCs in the algorithm, but the protecting nation should always help out their protectorate in any wars they are in and if you don't then the protectorate treaties will end as you failed to protect them.

Extending there treatment as NPCs you can't post turns for them either, and they can only give +1 to algorithm strength scores as (P) and they must be close to where the war is happening otherwise they don't get involved (e.g. Normandy's Mogadishu protectorate can't send aid to Normandy's wars in Europe).Protectorates get a -3 algorithm penalty in all wars due to their reliance on their protector.

They are shown in the colour of the protecting nation on the map so players know if other PNs are protecting them, and also you can only have a maximum of 5 protectorates. If you have 3 or more protectorates you also get a war algorithm penalty of -2 for having protectorates as your military will be stretched trying to protect these far off nations. It'll take a 4 year minimum to establish a protectorate too. You can also then peacefully turn your protectorate into a vassal or puppet after 15 years of that nation being your protectorate. You can do it sooner than 15 years if you like but an algorithm will be needed.

Thoughts on these new rules? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:24, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

I think that this is good enough.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:51, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay and also they should expand like NPCs since players can't post for them and because the protectorate is weak relying on another nation for protection.

I'll add this stuff to the rules page in a few days to give other people a chance to comment on these new rules. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:30, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Proposed Change to Industrial Bonus
I would like to propose a change to the bonus in that population determines whether or not you get the bonus, instead of how many nations actually should get it by weight of numbers (having more industrialized nations on your side that it). My reasons for this are simple. During World War II, Germany was one of the most industrialized nations on Earth. However, it couldn't defeat the Soviet Union despite that since Germany's population was too small beat the vast industrial base and population of the Soviet Union. Even though the Soviets had fewer advanced factories or training, they simply had more factories to work with, and more people to man them all. Eventually, Germany was crushed by a tide of Soviet tanks that were being churnned out in the tens of thousands. The USSR's 200 million people and backwards industrial base, beat Germany's 80 million people and smaller yet more advanced industrial base. Henceforth, I believe that the industrial bonus should be tided in with the population size of the nation using it. Just a suggestion. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 13:50, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

There were many reasons for that. Foremost was the fact that by 1940, the USSR was one of the world's leading industrial powers. Spread out and poor but still an industrial power compared to most of the world. Furthermore was the fact that Germany had huge supply lines to fight in the USSR while the factories in the Ural mountains continued churning out tanks and aircraft and their supply lines shrank. Scandinator (talk) 15:31, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Even before the supply lines broke, and before the invasion of the Soviet Union, the Germans were still having manpower issues. They couldn't produce nearly enough tanks or aircraft to fight the Russians, even though they were technially more advanced and still had strong supply lines. In the end, it couldn't afford the manpower losses that the Soviets could. Heck, if the United States invaded Britain today, Britain's supply lines would service the entire nation. But the US would still will even though it was fighting across the Atlantic. Why? It can afford to build more guns, more ships, and more tanks at the end of the day, and can afford to lose more men, while Britain cannot. Germany had poor logistics yes, but the Soviet Union had to service the same amount of territory with fewer supplies and facilities (Germany still had more rails and ships than the Soviets, and its territory was more densely-populated). My point remains that the Soviet were still industrializing by the time of the war, they simply marshalled their manpower to advance it for the conflict. Its repeated numerous times in every history book about the war I've read. I should really learn how to minimize these walls of text. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:49, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

You're completely right also personally I think that there should be an increase to the population bonus as like it or not, it's largely the biggest nation wins the war throughout recent history. Kunarian TALK 15:45, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

I concur. It's not entirely plausible either. I mean, how much of your population can you really have in the military and working in factories at any given time?

15:57, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

But then you cannot have a nation greater than you in population but say two levels below you in industry take you over. That has also never happened. The reason the Indians were under the Brits so long was becasue they were technologically superior (logistics and otherwise). :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:01, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yup. Industrialized nations can easily conquer vast portions of unindustrialized land (which is why I'm confused as to why Ethiopia can't expand any faster into the black lands). And to anwser your question Scraw, the Soviet Union had 12.5 million soldiers in its standing army throughout World War II, and at the time of its dissalution in 1991, it had about three to five million troops. So that was about six percent of its population in 1945 and five percent by 1991. As for factories, the Soviet Union had 80% of its population in factories in 1980. So to finish, you can have a lot of people in factories and in the military. You don't need millions of people on a farm really, and most modern first world countries get by comfortable with only 2-3% of their population working the fields. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:02, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

You understand that 1900s industrialization is different to 1700s industrialization right? Also the USSR is a communist government with a centrally planned economy. The examples you are using are quite irrelevant to our current situation of 1700s economics and technology, with the largely democractic and/or monarchies which most nations players have are. The industrialization bonus is to make it easier for industrialized nations to colonize non-industrialized nations as without this bonus, nations would have no points to show that they have more advanced technology. Your example of example of WW2 nations was fought between nations with a largely similar level of technology so the industrialization bonus wouldn't come into play, but things like recent wars and allies would, meaning the USSR would win.

Numbers isn't everything, if you have significantly better technology that more advanced nation will win - e.g. Britain vs Zulu or the Darleks invading Earth. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:01, August 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * United Earth still defeated the Romulans, even though they had superior technology. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:22, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

I suppose I'll use another example then. During the American Civil War, the North had three times the people than the South, four times the railroads, nine times the factories, and twice as many soldiers. This was in an era that was before the advent of electricity and the era of true mass production, so there is little to take away from it. Heck, even railways existed in the early-1800s, meaning that the economics, though not as rail-reliant as the 1860s, are still somewhat comparable. So the point still stands regardless, that numbers and industry still remain important as more bodies means more production, and more production means more guns, uniforms, and munitions. And on the Zulu, they were fighting a power that had a colony nearby, providing troops and ammuntion to fight a nation that was a pre-industrial power with a population of 500,000-1,000,000 people. The Boers were more numerous than them. Plus, the Zulu were fighting in a small area, and only fielded 14,000 to 20,000 men in the entire war, with the largest battles having no more than 4,000-5,000 warriors. The British fielded 1,000 troops at Isandlwana alone. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:29, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well this is awkward....
Hey all, is there some way the mods can respond on behalf of Brython to my royal sucession crisis while Rex is blocked. I've boxed myself into a situation that needs a Brythonic response and putting my nation on hold for two weeks is not a great option. I don't know what Rex's plan was as he mentioned "further negotiation", but I can tell you that this succession crisis has been in the works for "decades", it was planned at the time of the royal wedding, and the entire existence of Brython's Prince Atticus was my idea in the first place (his entire purpose in existing is to unify the dynaties while separating the lines of succession). Commandante Lemming (talk) 15:41, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Note of Leave
Hi everyone! While PMII has been super fun, I'll have to say I've gotten a bit unentertained by it. I'll be taking an indefinite, prob. permanent break, starting today, and I'd appreciate it if my country, Mali, and her vassals of Gabu, Mossi, and Wolof were handed off to a new player. Other than that, all the mods on this game have been great as well as all the players! Thanks for providing a super fun map/game experience.

Shawnguerra (talk) 18:59, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Shame to see you go :( <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:34, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

The stealing of Persia
Okay so Yank has seemingly stolen Persia from Warman555. Warman555 has posted as Persia as well, and there is also the algorithm on the talk page which shows that Persia is a player nation, and also Warman has posted on the discussion boards about advice for Persia too.

This behaviour is completely unacceptable as a mod. I can't find anything on their talk pages agreeing to the swap over, so I'm assuming the worse case scenario. If its been agreed to and I just didn't find the agreement then fair dos, and apologises for this post.

Otherwise what should we do about this incident? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:34, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't he going to be the Byzantines?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:51, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

He's seemingly done the right thing there and left them to Cyprus, but he's doing it again now basically. This is twice in a like week. It is a terrible standard for a mod to be setting. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:55, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I motion for a vote of no confidence against Yank. (Hope someone catches the reference in there.)

19:58, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Don't quote Phantom Menace, damn it! CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 21:03, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Folks, lets calm down. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:26, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I thought that warman was only listed as Persia because that section of the signup sheet wasn`t updated. It still listed 77Topaz as Tibet, after all. And I don`t remember him posting until AFTER I chose Persia. Yank 21:35, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I`m trying to become a more permanent part of this map game again, and yet every single nation I pick is taken. There seems to be quite a few novice map game users who post for a little while and them forget that his game exists. I`m net trying to abuse my status, but it is frustrating to have lost a nation to someone who can`t play the game properly.Yank 21:45, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I agree Warman555 is quite the novice but you can't just go and take another player's nation. Why not go for Baghdad next door? They're quite powerful. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 10:18, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Fine. I'll be Bagdad. Here's hoping It'll stick in tume for the next map. Yank 21:48, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Removing Posts
Someone has removed my posts from 1805 and 1806. I'm currently trying to find the perpetrator, but there's a bunch of history to go through.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:20, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

While we're discussing this, can someone from the mod staff give a brief note on how to handle edit conflicts. I got busted for accidentally deleting a post by Von and I'm re-arranging my process to try and ensure it doesn't happen again but I doubt I'm the only one who has done this. To review, my own process to avoid edit conflicts (now) is to copy my entire text before publishing. In the event of and edit conflict, I will exit the editor entirely, refresh the main PMII page, re-open the editor and paste my entry at the bottom. Is this a fool proof way of doing it? I don't think I'm the one who took out the posts in question but if I did I know I've been actively tweaking my process to avoid this. Commandante Lemming (talk) 14:33, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Usually i copy my post and in case of edit conflict, i copy my post and add it to the present version.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:21, August 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I always copy my post in case there is an edit conflict. If there is, I just post in the place/year I was going to be posting in. :) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:20, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * The proper thing to do is copy your whole post before you hit publish. Paste if necessary. If you conducted diplomacy, things can get a little messy. Never copy an entire year.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  16:48, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Malta
I was wondering if I could play as the nation of Malta. I didn't see it in the nations list, but I noticed no one had conquered the islands in recent years. Is it alright if I sign up as them? Mscoree (talk) 17:41, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

It's not even on the map. As far as I know, either Cyprus or Italy owns it.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  18:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Before I made my post I searched through some of the archives. I noticed that Italy had attacked the islands but withdrew, and I noticed that Napoleon never invaded the islands, therefore the Sovereign Military Order of Malta would still be in power. Mscoree (talk) 18:58, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, in this timeline, Malta was only briefly independent, as a pirate-controlled state, but it was quickly annexed by Venice and is under Venetian control to this day.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:05, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe this was sometime in the early 1500s. Also, we never had Napoleon, just two counterparts.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1576, in fact.Right after the Caliphate fell.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:30, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind then. Thanks. Mscoree (talk) 21:44, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Imperium Africana
Total: 85
 * Location: +2 (Ethiopia 1, Germanica 3, Neu Berlin 2, Neu Prussen 2, Maharajya 1, Rajputana 1)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L), Kenya (M), Eritrea (M), Borona (M), Adal (MV), Warsangali (MV), Normandy (MV), Oyo (MV), Benin (MV), Yorubaland (MV), Beja (MV), Darfur (MV), Kitara (MV), Majeerteen Sultanate (MV), Ajuuraan Sultanate (MV), Germanica (L), Neu Berlin (L), Neu Prussen (L), Georgia (L), Chimu (M), Mysore (M), Orientalia (M), United Maharajya (L), Rajputana (L), Dahod (MV), Nepal (MV), Bhutan (MV), Mataram (M), Brunei (M), Naya Bihar (M), Sulwasi (MV) = 85/32 = +3
 * Military Development: 16/16 = +1
 * Economy: 14/14 = +1
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: +3 + 7 + 7 + 3 + 3 + 3 = +26
 * Chance: +7
 * Edit Count: 3,050
 * UTC Time: 09:42 = 72
 * 72/3050*pi=0.0741621872322885
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +29 (355,587,000)
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Great Brython
Total: 39
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Great Brython (L), Hobyo-Somalia (MV), Morocco (MV), Welsh Royal Coast (MV), New South Wales (MV), Oldeburg (MV), Liege (MV), Cleves (MV), West Munster (MV), Luxembourg (MV), Netherlands (L), Indonesia (MV), Kongo (MV), Warqama (MV) = 32/85 = 0
 * Military Development: 16/16 = +1
 * Economy: 14/14 = +1
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Chance: 4
 * Motive: +10
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +8 (35,000,000)
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((86/(39+86)*2)-1 = 0.376 = 37.60%

37.60*(1-1/(2*5)) = 33.84

The Ethio-Aryan-German alliance destroys Great Brython. They can topple the Brythonic government if the war lasts for five years.

Discussion
LoL. Anyway since I'm not really around, some else really needs to keep Viva in check or else... <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:09, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't worry. I've already nominated myself for the job. XD [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:12, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should treat Great Brhyton's chances as a NPC, as Reximus won't answer until 1814, at least, and we can't have wars with inconclusive results for four years, after all, when this happens, the war drags out for 10 years or so.Or it would be more plausible to make this war drag on?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:49, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand why that's necessary. He has development for the last fifteen years, save for the few days that he has been blocked so far.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:53, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

What a surprise to see you two here. I just got back here to change the algo when I read the blog. I suspect Rex won't be around for a while. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:06, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Collie has a point. While he does have development for the last fifteen years, though, we could still expand his military/economy/all that good stuff as if he became an NPC on whatever day he was banned, which was the 24th or 25th. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 22:05, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Can I assume it's too late for other countries to join? Callumthered (talk) 23:27, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry man, Viva was quick with the Algo. XD [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:49, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dang. Well, I'll just have to hope that Brandenburg will trade Oldenburg for Khmer Koch or something (God damn Rex nd his banning! Oldenburg could have been mine years ago!). Callumthered (talk) 23:54, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Added my proposal to the chances.After all, they need one, and i am not surprised that you conveniently forgot the chance.I also adjusted the length of the war with the chance.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:24, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Fifteen years? What kind of BS is this?!

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:10, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

It was incomplete.And, that was the truth.on that score it really would take 15 or 16 years to topple their government.Which was fitting, i mean, you are fighting a world power, and all...again, you left out his chance.And, Where is this Neu Preussen?I don't think it deserves a four, as it would have to be in Europe (Last time i checked it was in the Caribbean) for that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:38, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Yes it is. There's a Welsh colony right next to it.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:41, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think the Distance is taken in consideration from the capital distance to the frontline. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:09, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly.The Caribbean isn't a frontline.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:15, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * For Neu Prussen it is. There are several front lines in a war. Any area directly attacked is a frontline.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:30, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I fit was so, nearly every nation involved then would get a five in location, as Ethiopia borders Hobyo-Somalia.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:21, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Claims
Since Rex is gone for a while, and we've clearly won a smashing victory, I think it proper to begin claim the lands of this vanquished foe. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:20, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ethiopia - Great Britain (England and Scotland), Brittany, Welsh Greenland, Ireland, Welsh Australia, Warqama (just taking that back) and Hobyo Somalia. Germany can have Wales. All of Wales Southeast Asian territories.
 * Germanica - Greenland, Ireland, Wales, Welsh Carribean, all of Welsh North Africa, Welsh Carribean, former Dutch European land.
 * Orissa - New Zealand, All of Welsh South America, and Kongo. Claiming for Mataram is the Welsh colony/puppet on Sumendang. As well as this the pretty self explainatory outpost in Bengal is also claimed.

Claim Discussion
Okay, I've ceded Welsh South America to Imp along with Kongo, and Wales is Scraw's. If there are no more claims to be made, then I shall call the wonderful little meeting to a close. We are adjured. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:43, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:45, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

I would like to take this opportunity to point out an implausibility (which is not limited to this war). In the 1700s and 1800s otl, when a nation was defeated, it was very unusual for the entire home nation to be taken. Let's take France as an example. After they lost the Seven Year's War, they lost little to no territory in Europe, but lost basically all their colonies. After the Napoleonic Wars, France merely lost all the land it had gained throughout the wars. The nation-state of France remained intact. Again, after its defeat in the Franco-Prussian War, the Prussians/Germans did not annex all of France: just Alasce Lorraine. Even after the Nazis were defeated, Germany was not (permanently) occupied by the Allies, and at least West Germany was allowed to be independent. My point is, regardless of the Agorithm, it is implausible by this stage for an entire home nation to be annexed. Colonies, sure, it's only natural. Parts of the main nation, sure. But the entire country and all its colonies? I'm really not so sure. (Note how I don't say that it's implausible for Ethiopia to gain land in Europe, or for it to gain colonies.) Callumthered (talk) 23:52, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I say that Ireland or Scotland should receive independent. Also, Wales has a larger population than Normandy--easier to rebel. I wanted England, mainly because they're Germanic, like me.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:59, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

I'm just going to invade them later. I'd rather fight for them then let them slip away. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:02, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

But Viva, what exactly do you gain from Ireland or Scotland? Having an outpost in Europe, I can understand. But...these aren't the most useful places on Earth. Regardless, they aren't the actual home territory of Wales. Really, if part of Wales was to remain as a rump state, it would be otl Wales. Brandenburg could still get the "Germanic" English, and Ethiopia can still get their Northern paradises, whilst the Welsh retain their national homeland. It's a win for the coalition, a (sort of) win for the Welsh people, and a win for plausibility. Callumthered (talk) 00:20, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I'm with Callum.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:26, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I don't gain anything from either. I just want them, just like I wanted the other territories. The Scots and the Irsh can talk about being free and whatever, and them being a part of Wales proper doesn't matter at all (since they've been thoroughly defeated), it simply won't stop me from steam-rolling them now or later. And you seem to forget that Rome, Germany and Britain managed to take over huge swathes of territory relatively quickly. Rome fell after numerous invasions over a one thousand year period; Germany after a coalition of nations defeated them (Wales being the case here), and Britain after its overstretched empire could no longer be controlled. I will cede Wales to Scraw, but I fought for and won Great Britain and Ireland, and I expect to get my winnings over the next five years. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:10, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and on the topic of gains, you could probably ask the same question of Denmark, wanting a worthless piece of land known as Greenland, or Britain and its rabit desire to keep the equally worthless Falklands (taking them in the early 1800s by the way). What of the numerous nations who fought over the Pacific Islands, which possessed no useful resources at all? This took took place before the age of coal, which means their usefulness as recoaling stations was non-existant. I gain potatos and redheads from Ireland and lots shipbuilding in Scotland. There. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:14, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Strange how the examples you gave (Rome, Germany and Britain (which was, in itself, a strange choice)) are not in the time period we are talking about and in Rome's case was over a thousand years before the time we are currently talking about. Here is a fact: in the 18th and 19th and (to some extent) 20th centuries, when "civilised" nations went to war, they did not take the entirety of the main country. Even Nazi Germany created puppet governments giving the locals some semblance of retaining power (not that the Nazis were civilised).

The examples of Greenland and the Falklands have nothing to do with our discussion. They were practically uninhabited outposts and were not the main, homeland territory  of any nation. Your "example" of Britain "falling" after it overstretched its empire is, well, laughable. Sure the overseas empire crumbled, but  the main nation survived  which is my point. And just quietly, with regards to the Pacific Islands, did you not consider Guano? Or (because by the time they were fighting over them, this was an issue) coaling bases?

Let's assume, however, that you do (implausibly) annex all of Britain. There is going to be massive resentment. Brtain had a decent (and patriotic and nationalistic) population by this point and there would be constant minor rebellions, uprisings and strikes. Think Ireland otl but multiplied to early-industrial British size. Your population in Ethiopia is going to get slightly sick of the endless bloody repressions and reprisals your military will have to engage in to keep the locals in check. And your population will see that, despite their European race, the Welsh are a civilised people with industry, not some uncivilised primitives like those in your other colonies. Annexing Britain would be more trouble than it is worth.

Let me stress again that taking Welsh colonies makes sense and is the most plausible thing to do. However "steamrolling" over the main nation of Wales is implausible and will do you more harm than good. Take Cornwall, take part of Scotland or Ireland. But annexing the Welsh heartlands/all of the British Isles is implausible and will in the long run be harmful for you.

And you'd get more redheads from Scotland than Ireland. Callumthered (talk) 03:26, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I forget where my redhards are. Anyway, let's begin the long and difficult road of explanations. On your first point, since time period matters, let us discuss Caucausia. The Russians were notorious for booting the native population off of their lands, and wiping out resistance wherever it was. They annexed the entirety of the nation that resided there (the Caucausian Emirate), and did so with many other nations that were in Central Asia and Siberia as well. As for the Brits, they were notorious for taking over huge empires such as the Ashanti Empire and the Zulu Kingdom, as well as taking huge swath (albeit not all of) India. Look at the OTL Scramble for Africa, which the game is now entering. Huge pieces of land (such as Somalia, East Africa and Nigeria) were all home to huge empires which put up decent fights before being conquered.

As for my "laughable" statement on Britain being overstretched, look up your info (as I did when Scraw attempted to justify his oversized military in AvA2). Britain was overstretched. In fact, during nearly all conflicts Britain was engaged in, it had to juggle which colonies to defend and which to let go of until it could return to liberate them. Overall, Britain had a massive military force, its just that it was poorly placed and disproportionately so. Most of its soldiers came from India, and most of the equipment from the home isles. It took huge amounts of money to get these into the right places, and even so, it could only do so with a few areas (Egypt, India and Britain). Need I remind you of the Suez Crisis? Right after that, it was shown that Britain could no longer sustain its empire, and with that, it collapsed. Over a 10-20 year period (ten years if you really think about it), the entirety of the once mighty British Empire was reduced to a few scragglely islands and a funky near Argentina.

Now back to the point. As was the case in OTL Ethiopia during the Italian invasion, patriotism and nationalism don't protect you from a determined foe. All of Ethiopia was conquered by Italy, and though it only ever controlled a third of the country totally at any given time, that was only because the nation was so huge. However, whenever the patriotic Ethiopians turned up to fight, they got stomped. Patriotism gets you numbers (lots of willing recruits), not victories (no well-trained or equipped recruits). Only thing it does is annoy your enemy, and as has been the case in ever attempt to rebel, it either 1) Gets them to drop the colony let a rock and move on to better targets (OTL Britain dumped America for India), or 2) Gear up and raze every city, house and dog in the neighborhood (look at Norway, it had the longest uprising under Nazi Germany; two weeks). Look at France in Algeria. It only left when the people wanted their money spent elsewhere instead of the costly won. Look at Iraq, the United States didn't live because it lost. It left because the won cost to stinkin' much. A government that hits heavily and brutally wins a won such as that (OTL Boer Wars which literally broke the fighting will of the Afrikaners). OTL Kenya didn't break away because it won a war of independence, it did so because the fight against the Mau Mau was making the British look bad.

Now, as for war fatigue. This is the Age of Imperialism. War fatigue is a myth right now. The people want a war because it proves they are the best, they feel its their job to uplift the other nation, and they want the biggest empire on the block. Bloody reprisals are considered worth the investment, and the people aren't impartial when it comes to concentration camps (OTL South Africa for example). Next, you need to remember that Ethiopia is an African nation. Different culture and society. As has been the case throughout their history, war isn't considered much of a drain there. Society puts emphizes on never givingup (which is why they fought so hard ever when they were losing). Perfect example. Ethiopia was chasing the Italians out of the nation in 1895 and had no intentions on stopping. The only reason they did stopped was because they were going through a famine and couldn't maintain the momenteum as they needed food for the men and horses. The Ashanti, it took the razing of nearly all their cities to stop them from fighting. The Zulu didn't stop fighting until it became appearent it was totally pointless fighting the more numerous British.

Now you keep saying "implausible" "implausible", but you never say why. I'm ahead of Wales on the industrialization chart, and I had many many many more people to fund any war effort or die fighting for the "glorious empire". Was it implausible for the British to take over India with their tiny yet advanced armies? It took many decades, but the people didn't buckle under the cost or loss of life. Ethiopia is larger and more powerful than Wales, so I don't see how it would be implausible to conquer the entire nation. Its one more industrialized nation fighting a smaller and less industrialized nation. Me taking over an island with a population one sixth that of Ethiopia's is implausible? Nevermind the fact that Ethiopia has many millions of loyal citizens, hundreds of thousands of soldiers, hundreds of warships, and a culture that isn't afraid of a little decimation, but Britain having a highly patriotic population is going to prevent me from taking over? I'll reiterate: war weariness was not a major issue at the time. Cost was. Cost pushed the Soviets out of Afghanistan, America out of Iraq and Britain out of nearly all of its colonies.

I'm sorry about the text wall (its a thing), but you've stated as the sole basis of your argument, that patriotism (which historically has never won any wars), war weariness (which only truly took hold of nations after World War II), and implausibility (for which you have not explained why), will force the massive colonial empire that has only been engaged in two major wars over the last one hundred years, is incapable of conquering the tiny island nation with a population of 15 million? The Indians were equally patriotic, still didn't defeat the Brits. They were very numerous, with a population of 225 million. Still didn't beat the Brits. They were partially industrialized and even had a blue water navy. Still didn't beat the Brits. Recap. Britain: 15 million people, a military of 200,000 (at its post-Napoleonic height), and a navy of a thousand ships. India: 225 million people, several millions of professional warriors and soldiers, and a navy of several thousands of ships. Hmm. See a problem with that assessment? Once again I'm very sorry for the text wall. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:25, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Also, please don't think I'm being disagreeable. I'm just trying to take what I've earned in the war. The colonies are nice, but I fought for, won and now want the British Isles (I mean seriously, that's literally the only reason I fought this stupid war). I have Normany right next to it, and Yoruabaland, Oyo and Benin not to far away either. I don't see how keeping to population in line is going to be difficult. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:37, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Guys, guys, guys, tl;dr overload! Both of you are semi right, but we're going to act like this never happened. Court adjourned.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:02, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

No, Viva, I am basing my argument on the fact  that when civilised countries went to war with each other at this time, they  did not  take the entire main nation. Seeing as Ethiopia and Wales are/were on basically the same scale of "civilisation" they would simply not do it. Sure, you have the manpower to take them. But it was not the done thing. And if you are the civilised nation you aseem to be, you would accept that. But it's not just you; I think Wales' annexation of the Netherlands was wrong too.

And I said that your claim that  Britain  (as in the nation on the British isles) "fell" was laughable. Britain is, last time I checked, still a sovereign nation. The same one which (as I myself said) lost its empire. Almost like, say, Wales losing its empire but remaining a rump state.

Your point about India is a good one. however you fail to recognise that the British did, at least at first, keep the indigenous government structures through their use of the princes. And you also do not take into account the sheer length of time and the number of wars required to subjugate India. It took the Brits years of weaseling in with the local princes, then a war or two or five with a prince who wouldn't accept their rule. And also, India had stuff worth fighting for. Britain is nice, but nowhere near as valuable as India.

I do not think you are being disagreeable, and I hope you do not think I am. As you know, my nation has nothing to gain from you gaining or not gaining Britain. However I am pointing out what I see as a problem which has started to occur with more regularity in this game and which I think takes away from its plausibility. (I'm done now Scraw) Callumthered (talk) 06:09, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Understood. Though I am well read on the subject of the "princely states" permitted by the British to rule over portions of India (such as Hyderabad). I see Britain as a strategic holding, so that's why I'm interested in holding it. As far as that is concerned, I believe you have a valid point on the rest of the matter. I guess we're done here then. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 07:55, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

If by Sumedang you mean that country on Borneo, I think that blue country on Borneo is actually Bavaria, not Wales.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:21, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think Sumedang is what the Dutch used to call Aceh-Padang. I might be wrong.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  16:43, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Also, we forgot the Dutch Texas colony. I'll take that, as I'm closest to it.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:12, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well then, if that is the case, then I'll take Dutch Puerto Rico then, along with the Welsh islands east of Madagascar and east of Puerto Rico. I didn't even notice it was there until I looked for that Texan colony. Though I'm not sure if that belongs to Cyprus or not. Doesn't matter, I'll just hold onto it until told otherwise. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:54, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I meant Sundabang. Sundabang. Sorry. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:19, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I thought Puerto Rico was mine. Hence all Carribean territory.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:15, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

One thing, The texas colony was sold by the Welsh to the Russian Antilian independentist, But like Part of carthage it hasn't been added to the map yet, I know cause i also tried to buy it. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:01, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

I guess it is yours then Scraw. I didn't see that claim originally. My bad. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:55, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

No worries.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  06:14, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Anyone want Mauritius? I'm going for Reunion.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  06:32, September 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll take them. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 06:54, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, have both.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  06:56, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I already claimed them both dudes. Remember: "...along with the Welsh islands east of Madagascar (i.e. Reunion and Mauritius." Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:37, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh. Ah.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  18:47, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Map Contest Crossover
That's right, the Map Contest this week is based on Principia Moderni II! Anyone who is interested can go to the Map Contest page to participate. CourageousLife (talk) 20:27, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Time to see what people's motives are in the game and if they plan on touching my shit *reads* CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 22:03, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

XD I made you and Russia my long time allies and then Cold War enemy.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:35, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * And did you tell him what you did to me? *glares* CourageousLife (talk) 22:48, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * XD sorry. I tried to place one counternation on each continent, and you were the only major nation on the Antillian continent. Look at the map, you didn't even lose any land.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:07, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * :P I know CourageousLife (talk) 00:28, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Dean's inactivity and the UKA
Alrigh...I gave Deansims my Antillian Colonies(technicaly I gave him a movement...but whatever). I did so under the assumption that he will actualy play as them...so far this is not happening, the last time he posted as the "United Kingdom of Antillia" was in 1799. I assumed Dean will play as Antillia, expanding them, conducting diplomacy I neglected to so their position would be of more use. Obviously he has not done so(due to his last post being about 2 weeks ago. I am henceforth taking them back under my control, untill such a time when he actualy wants to play as them...-Lx (leave me a message) 03:50, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

No objection.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  06:13, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Go ahead. CourageousLife (talk) 15:43, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

I second this motion.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:47, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

i was playing as them and expanding BUT NO ONE WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE MY MAP UPDATES AND EXPANSION OR EVEN RECOGNIZE MY INDEPENDANCE. Sorry caps lock. And whats the point if whatever you do is ignored? DS|Im Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs!! 17:08, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Bavaria
Total:58
 * Location: +5 (Suddeutches Reich 5)
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Bavaria (L +4),Saxony (L +4), Bavarian Tyrol(MV +2)= 2
 * Military Development: 12/3 = 4
 * Economy: 14/3 = 5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance: 4
 * Editcount: 1448
 * Time:03:36
 * 1448/54 x pi = 84.2412252
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

The Swiss Failures
Total: 33
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength:Switzerland (L +4) = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Chance: 2
 * Editcount: 807
 * Time: 1:25
 * 807/10 x pi = 253,526527
 * Motive: +3
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
58/(58=33)*2-1 = 0.2747

Disscussion
Ok, wtf happened, I've been buried in University work, just to log on and find a tiny fly speck attack me? Very well then. Since I didn't start this war idk how to figure chance, and I AM SO not filling out the Swiss side.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 03:51, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

XD what a stupid move. Anyways, attackers can't get +10 motive, so I took it off from the Swiss side.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:53, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks lolTrust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 03:57, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Adding chance and other numbers.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:07, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Switzerland is the attacker. No infrastructure for them.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  19:13, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Forgot about that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:54, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Italia is sending supplies to my war see 1814 postTrust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 15:35, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

So when is this thrashing of a war ending, and what can the result be? Callumthered (talk) 11:09, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

PEOPLE R BEING RUDE TO MY LAMENESS IT NEEDS TO B TITLED the Swiss r better than u.  <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM   21:38, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Apostolic Prime Bishop Election
Candidates: Brother Patrick (Irish but controlling Welsh order, controlled by Wales aka Scraw), (add others if desired)

Votes:

Selk'nam (Commandante Lemming): Brother Patrick Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:17, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Tojiko (Kogasa): Brother Patrick

Wales (Scraw): Brother Patrick (Scraw) 21:21, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Britain (Viva): Brother Fassil Mekonen (don't know if I'm suppose to add a candidate from Britain or vote for Patty McPatrick)  Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:14, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Coalition for Freedom

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Germanica (L), Chimu (L), Orientalia (L), Neu Berlin (M), Neu Prussen (M), Mysore (M), Georgia (M), Walisisch Reichskommissariat (MV), Maroko (M), China (L), Manchuria (L), Korea (L), Empire of Vietnam (L), Tibet (MV), Badakhstan (MV), Laos (MV), Bone (MV), Formosa (MV), France (LW), Aquitane (MVW), Picardy (MV), Lorraine (MVW), Angouleme (MVW), Carthage (MVW), Toulouse (MVW), Tyrol (MVW), Neu Judea (MVW), Haut Bourgogne (MVW), Basse Bourgogne (MVW), Leptis (MVW), Numidia (MVW), Occitania (MVW), La Marche (MVW), Zululand (MVW), Musicas (MVW), Basotho (MVW), Venaissin (MVW), Myanmmar (L), Italia (M), Mayan Empire (L), Zapotec (L), Madura (MV), North Maori (MV) = 101/50 = 2
 * Military Development: 24/20 = +1
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: +7 +7 +7 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5= +56
 * Chance: +1
 * Time: 1:10 = 1
 * Edit count: 6809
 * 1/6809*pi = 4.613.....
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +11 (428,000,000 - China, Germany, Maya)
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -7
 * Total: 87

Imperium Africana

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L), Kenya (L), Eritrea (L), Borona (L), Normandy (L), Adal (L), Warsangali (MV), Oyo (MV), Benin (MV), Yorubaland (MV), Beja (MV), Darfur (MV), Kitara (MV), Brittany (MV), Hobyo Somalia (MV), Warqama (MV)  England (MV), Scotland (MV), Ireland (MV)= 50/97 = .515= 0
 * Military Development: 20/24 = 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: +10
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 = +30
 * Chance: +6
 * Time: 21:29 = 36
 * Edit count: 3,128
 * 36/3,128*pi=0.0361564371896547
 * Population: +9 (132,000,000 - Ethiopia proper and leaders)
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -10
 * Total:61

Result
Coalition victory. The coalition gets to claim 17.5% ((87+61)*2)-1. If the war lasts for 5 years, the coalition gets 15.65% of Ethiopia's territory. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 20:20, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Yep. Good as done. Crim and I will divvy up the land later. Don't worry Viva, we'll leave part of mainland Ethiopia intact for you! No, everyone else may not join.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:31, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

So that was your plan. Right. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:36, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Quite so.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:27, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

I fixed the algorithim since you either broke it or refused to use the right numbers. I broke Great Brython into vassals in the game, so you missed that. I have Brittany and Hobyo, so you missed that. I have infrastructure points as defender, so you missed that. And I'm fighting for the survival of the empire (as are the dominions), so you missed that as well. You jacked up the algorithim. Oh, and the royal court is in Addis Ababa, which is one of the highest capitals in the world. You missed that as well. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:36, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Well OK then, you add your leaders. The main target of this war is England, which I assumed was a colony. So +5 motive.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:44, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

20/23 gives you 0 in military, Ethiopia gets -5 penalty for five years as a leader in the Welsh War, all your Dominions get -1 for military aid in the Welsh War.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:46, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

You round up from the points you get. Since I got 0.8, that counts as one, unless someone forget to teach you math. And I don't get five points since I only have three dominions. Plus, I'm fighting for national survival, since the empire is my nation. So that's ten points you just took away. If you really want me to be generous, I can lower it to +7 since I'm fighting for the safety of the minority Ethiopian population in Britain and Ireland, and those in the lands your trying to take, since as the homeland, its my duty to protect them. And since they since military aid in one war in the last 15 years, they only get one point each. Not two. Nice try though. That reminds of something, I'm fighting to defend my people in Britain, and your trying to remove them. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:52, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Riiiiiiiiiight, you just demonstrate your lack of an ability to comprehend. Allow me to quote myself.

Ethiopia gets -5 penalty for five years as a leader in the Welsh War

Any war you were a leader in within the last 15 years means -1 for each year spent as a leader.

Also I ' distinctly said that the Dominions each get -1. '

"all your Dominions get -1 for military aid in the Welsh War."

Also no one is attacking your main nation. I'm attacking England. +10 is LIFE OR DEATH. Do you understand the meaning of LIFE OR DEATH? I think not.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:57, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Also another flaw in your argument:

"You round up from the points you get. Since I got 0.8, that counts as one, unless someone forget to teach you math."

Read the rules. That's not how the algorithm works, Mr. Smart Aleck.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:59, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Also I'm fighting to FREE my oppressed brothers in England. You're fighting to PROTECT your people and land. +5.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:01, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hold on while I collect my evidence against you. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:09, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Well, China and France are ancient, with both having been around for the last 400-1000 years without any government change. So that gives you -10 points. Ethiopia's last government change was about 250 years ago. The great equalizer age is, no? Borona is fighting for its survival as you are actively trying to conquer it. +10 points. Ethiopia is trying to defend its people in Great Britain, as in your own words, your trying to "liberate" the nation, which has Ethiopians who just conquered inside. So they have no confidence you'll protect them from the angry locals. +7 points. Kenya and Eritrea are trying to aid them as well as dominions, so now thats +14 points. So since Ethiopia and two of its vassals are fighting to protect their own, and not the land you wanted, they now had to defending the minority population in England. So because you voiced your intentions ingame and on the talk page, I now have +31 points instead of the +25 I was trying to get. Thank you.

Recap:


 * China and France are old nations: -10 points


 * Ethiopia, Kenya and Eritrea are fighting to protect the Ethiopian minority in Britain from potential genocide: +21 points

Thank you for handing me the victory Scraw. Couldn't have done it without you. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:22, September 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Borona is the target of Chinese conquest: +10 points

France is not ancient. France became constitutional in the mid 1600s. I am attacking only your vassal in Great Britain and China is attacking your colony in Alaska. We  NEVER  targeted Borona, unless you call England Borona.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:28, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

And China isn't ancient either. Dynasty change. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 03:33, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Well, since I nor Ethiopia trust you, its open season. And you spoke openly of leaving me nothing but Ethiopia proper. So I don't know how you can explain that and say your only going after one nation. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:51, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Since we haven't attacked those areas yet, you can't say that. You're creating a paradox. Ever see Minority Report?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:01, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Its not a paradox. Ethiopians elsewhere in the empire fear that the conquering Ethiopians may be subjected to cruelty for whatever exposed actions they commited in Britain, and as a result, they don't want to see them harmed and are fighting to protect them from retribution. People of the 1800s weren't exactly know for their compassion, especially toward those of "colored" skin. Plus you stated that it was for racism, so the Ethiopians fear genocide (ever heard of what happened as a result of Nat Turner's rebellion). As for Minority Report, I think I've heared of it, but never saw it. Should I care? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:18, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

It is a paradox. If you know your future, you can change it. We're not going to commit genocide, we're trying to help free your stupid people from the oppression. Racism is a minor thing ATL, but you seem to have turned it on its head by discriminating against the English. You can't create some BS motive based on your predictions. Also you should watch Minority Report. It actually sums up the whole thing you're saying here about your motive.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:22, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hah! I didn't say that was going to happen. I said explictly that they thought it was going to happen. You (Germany) made race an issue, and in the past, you as well as other players said that race was an issue. So I'm not coming up with any of this. I'm only making it clear that it was you, not me, that stated as much. Also, given that the Ethiopians haven't exactly been kind toward the Brits, my people suspect actions against them, not for racial reasons, but for the fact that we were conquerers and they were victims. The fact that they they masscured fellow Europeans for the same reasons means that they wouldn't think twice about it if they were Ethiopian. And finally, you and Cal stated that the British were highly patriotic, so they would do anything for the homeland to free it. So if they will do anything to free it, I won't write it off that they may do something else as well. So I can't read the minds of the British people, and I can't change what the Ethiopians feel. The Ethiopians feel they may be subject to violent and vicious crimes, and you were the ones that enforced that by stating that race, nation and belief would be factors in that. Do I need to tell you what the Afghans, Iraqi and Somalis did to Americans they captured during wartime? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:27, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Stop creating oxy morons, dammit!

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:30, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

What? Its what I do best. It doesn't really matter anyway. Even with your puppets, you still can't beat me. You got the population wrong. And in order to get the +10 bonus, it needs to be 5-to-1, its only 4-to-1. That means you only get +2 points instead. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:06, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

How are you getting help from Ireland and Britain? You just took them over. There isn't a chance in hell that their militaries are loyal. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 17:06, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Just letting you know that the last WC was me. And and as it stands the Germans get 22%. Yank 17:32, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Good enough for me.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:57, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Would someone be so kind as to add me to the algorithm? CourageousLife (talk) 20:43, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Can I get a list of vassals?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:46, September 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * For right now, it's just me, Zapotec, North Maori, and Madura. I'm not forcing the Apache to join unless he wants to. You can add me as a leader, though. CourageousLife (talk) 20:55, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Its currently 14%, not 22. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:49, September 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Still not a problem with me!


 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:43, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

I'm getting help since I established governments there and set up militia made of traitor Brits and Scots. I'm sure I mentioned that in the last three turns. So you can't exactly cross them out. Germany got the French on his side even though he had just invaded him. Take that in contrast to the Princely States of India that served the British immediately after being defeated. As history has shown, puppet governments are set up almost immediately after an invasion. Also, your nations only get +5 since the Germanic people of Great Britain aren't the minority. The Ethiopians are. " Social/Moral Kinsmen: Fighting for social/moral reasons to help a <u style="font-style:inherit;line-height:20px;">minority of your nation's <u style="font-style:inherit;line-height:20px;">main ethnicity/race in another nation= +7" This in contrast too: "S ocial/Moral Friend: Fighting for social/moral reasons to help an ethnicity/race in the nation= +5" So you can't get that bonus. That and the obvious fact that the Chinese aren't related to the Germans. So how they got a +7 bonus is beyond me. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:00, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

I did not just invade Frnace.....also, you keep contradicting myself. Allow me to requote:

Social/Moral Kinsmen: Fighting for social/moral reasons to help a  minority  of your nation's  main ethnicity/race  in another nation= +7

See that? Minority of YOUR nation's main ethnicity/race. YOUR in this case applies to my nation. My main ethnicity/race is Germanic. A minority of my nation's main ethnicity/race can be Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Flemish, West Germanic, Teutonic, etc. You have Anglo-Saxons in your nation, which are a minority of my majority. +7. You didn't object when we were fighting Wales, you hypocrite.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:43, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

You've contridicted youself again Scraw. You based your entire arguement on saving the  Germanic people . You said nothing of Anglo-Saxons. Your cheating to be honest. Your using a very broad and open term to gain a number of points that you shouldn't have. I think when they said race or ethnicity (and not ethnolignustic groups), they meant helping GERMANS and not ANGLO-SAXONS. They are Germanic in the sense that they speak Germanic languages. Race wise, they are not German anymore than they are Teuton. And I didn't say anything about the Welsh, moron. There with Ethiopians in Warqama, New Zealand, and Cambodia (Welsh territory). I was fighting for my people as the maps before 1720 can show you. So no, you don't get +7. To quote Wikipedia: "The Germanic peoples (also called Teutonic, Suebian or Gothic in older literature) are[1] an Indo-European ethno-linguistic group of Northern European origin, identified by their use of the Germanic languages which diversified out of Proto-Germanic starting during the Pre-Roman Iron Age." The definition of Ethnolinguistics: "the branch of linguistics concerned with the relations between linguistic and cultural behavior." They speak a branch of a branch of your language, but they aren't a member of the immediate German race. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:50, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

By that same flawed logic you get+5 as well. Anglo-Saxons are part of the Germanic race.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:57, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Under no flawed logic since the same Ethiopians in Britain are the same ones in Ethiopia. In fact, I transported them there from Ethiopia. So nothing you can say about that. +7. Your fighting for a subrace, I'm fighting for the main race. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:14, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

You sound like a noob. Defending your own race goes into +5. Here I was thinking you understood the game.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:15, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Defending your race which is a minority in another country gets you +7. Defending a race that isn't a minority gets you +5. Your exploiting a vaguely described rule to gain additional points (Mainland Germans fighting to defending Anglo-Saxons that are loosely connected through ancient ties). I'm using a clear-cut example of the rule (Ethiopians at home fighting to defend a small group of Ethiopians in Britain) to get +7. It doesn't even matter, even without the motive, you still lose. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:20, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

In what crazy backwards universe that you live in that you expect four of the world's foremost powers with aid from a superpower will be defeated by one nation and its worldwide empire?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:32, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yo, my motive is +7. Wales and I were coming closer in Kappelism before they got taken out. They saved religious texts written in Mayan from the Isles. CourageousLife (talk) 22:36, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw, I'm not saying it, the algo is saying it. The algo says your two points short, and it also says that your tyraid of nations only got +2 points in the members section. So this is the same world that your trying to use to win. I didn't make it, the mods did. And Courage, Wales is owned by Scraw, you'd need to be fighting a nation that was increasingly discriminating against a minority of your religion. I wasn't targetting Kappelians, and had a deal not to harm them. So you don't necessarily get +7. " Religious: Fighting for your nation's dominant religion, against a nation which is  severely  increasing   discrimination, <u style="font-style:inherit;line-height:20px;"> increasingly   restricting access to or damaging holy sites, brutally opposing conversion attempts, or has recently changed its religion/denomination= +7" Ethiopia hasn't done any of those things. And since your Mayan, your not fighting for a minority of your nation, but of another nation. So at best, you get +5. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:42, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Recently changed its denomination. You changed the denomination of the government that rules Britain from an Apostolic/Kappelist one to an Orthodox one.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:46, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw, I just figured something out too. While your nation is related to the British, the British are not your main ethnic group/race. They are Anglo-Saxon, not Teuton (which is the main race of Germany). Adal, Borona and Eritrea are fighting for their nations' main ethnic group, the Ethiopians. So I get +7 on all of them. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:48, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Teutons and Anglo-Saxons are all Germanic......

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:50, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw, I just figured something out too. While your nation is related to the British, the British are not your main ethnic group/race. They are Anglo-Saxon, not Teuton (which is the main race of Germany). Adal, Borona and Eritrea are fighting for their nations' main ethnic group, the Ethiopians. So I get +7 on all of them. Also, Ethiopia doesn't have a state religion, and right before it industrialized, it had freedom of religion. I didn't convert anyone or anything after 1700. So while the government changed, the main/state religion did not. And it doesn't matter what your overarching cultural group is, only your main ethnic group/race. You are German, they are British. Your PRIMARY ethnic group is Teuton, their's is Anglo-Saxon. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:48, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

I am NOT Teuton. Poles are Teutons. Lithuanians are Teutons. Estonians are Teutons. Ukrainians are Teutons. Not Germans. But Teutons are Germanic. All Tetons and Anglo Saxons are Germanic, as are Germans and Flemish.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:56, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Once again, your using a very wide and very broad term to get extra points. The spirit of the rule is that you can fight for a race of your own people, not a group that happens to be related through ancient, read, ancient ties. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:02, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

So now I shall explain very carefully the point issue. Ethiopia and its dominions are fighting to protect the Ethiopian minority in Great Britain. This is a social issue to preserve the Ethiopian population there. Henceforth they all get +7. The Ethiopians have no state religion, and haven't had one for a century. Henceforth the Mayans do not get +7. The Germans and the British are only loosely related, and the spirit of the rules did not mean for the overarching race of the two, but the two as separate peoples. They are related, but ethnically speaking they are distinct and separate. Henceforth you get +5 since your fighting for a race which is not a minority in that country, but you are fighting to protect them on moral ground. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:10, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Regardless of what religion they are, your settlers in Great Brython have some kind of religion. Thus the religion of the people of the Isles is threatened. CourageousLife (talk) 23:19, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

My settlers have a religion, but they haven't changed or persecuted the population for their beliefs nor attempted to change the state religion. The rules make it clear that they have to have done that to justify your points. So rule-wise you don't get the +7 for making people think that in-game otherwise it'd be cheating. Anyone could sit here and say "well my people think their religion is threatened" and get +7 for that alone. But they aren't threatened, and weren't threatened, since the Ethiopians have no one religion. They have many. Orthodox just happens to be the largest of them. So since I'm neither persecuting members of other religions, attempting to force them to convert, nor have I changed the state religion, you do not get +7. Feeling threatened is one thing. Actually doing it is another entirely. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:28, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Should be working on the population soon. That's going to be a bitch to find out the populations. Populstat should be a big help in this endeavour lol. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:03, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

I already handled the Populstat deal (which is where I get all my population statistics). Also, Scan added himself and not his vassals for a reason, please do add nations without his permission. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:12, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Also Carthage, Occitania, Picardy  and Zululand declared war against Ethiopia and should be considered leaders as heading points for the fleets of france against Ethiopias holdings beyond their homeland. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:14, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of your vassals, Sine, you've made 15 sucessive non-colonial expansions in the last 15 years. That's 15 penalty points for your entire team. Also, I just realized that I set up dominions (self-governing territories) in Great Britain. And these dominions happen to be fighting for their survival. Thanks for jogging my mind Sine. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:29, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

you do know that i'm unsure if Zululand should be allowed  or carthage to join the war as they are far from the main front. i'm posting to know if they should be. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:41, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. I've won by a landslide thank you very much. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:44, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

You do know that you can't reallistically won by that much, its implausible. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:58, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Are you high? CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:24, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

^

Let's let someone who's not handle this.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:25, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Nope. But someone outside is smoking some weed. I think its funny that your mad that I had dominions in Britain before the start of the war and now I'm using them. That's like Iran building a new awesome tank (we know that's not possible but just saying) and getting mad that they are now using them to defend their nation. I legally had the points, and I'm using them to defend England. England is fighting for survival, and Scotland and Ireland (both under military governments), are sending troops and whatever supplies are avaliable to support them. You can't fault me for taking precautions ahead of time. You two are the only major critics, and yet you two are the only ones with so much to lose. Interesting. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:34, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

There's a difference between building a tank and killing the people inside someone else's tank and stealing it. Building a tank would mean you started it and it runs like you know it will. If you stole someone else's tank, you're going to need to know how to shoot and drive the tank so when the original owner's friends come to take it back and you're spinning it in circles, they're going to win. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:46, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Well in this case, I took over the factory that makes the tanks (hostile takeover), and imported labor from the city I grew up into to run them. The workers and the suppliers were outsourced by my fellow city-folk, and though they aren't many, I still have enough to them to make it hurt the other guy. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:48, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

In one year? My foot.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:49, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

There is absolutely no goddamn way that your puppet regimes in Britain are secure enough after only a year. That means that you shouldn't have even 66, let alone this 99 bullshit you've pulled out of your ass. Your bull is going to ruin this game for the rest of us, so I request that you change your tune. Yank 03:00, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Here we go again. Its been three years. For three years I've been sending thousands of troops to contain British rebellions. Unlike the US in the 1770s, there are no vast forests that go on forever, no sparse populations and no lands that have plenty of hiding places. This is Britain. A flat little island with a population of 15 million sobs. I just invaded Ireland with 57,000 soldiers, and in the same period, only about 10,000 ever rose up against the British for the same reason. The Ethiopians are just as well-equipped and trained as the OTL Brits, and I've deticated more troops to fighting them. The Brits can revolt, but it wouldn't last long since these are fresh troops in the region. Now, let's use some OTL examples. Britain invaded India, which was 25 times its size land and pop wise. It established princely states in the same period, and had peace and quiet for the next 100 years. This happened in the same period as this war. Heck the "Imperial Century" of Britain began in 1815. Now as for more modern examples. Germany invaded and destroyed France much in the same way I invaded and destroyed England. Yet, Vichy France, Greece, and Romania all supported Germany, the cruel guys that just conquered them, almost immediately after they left. So puppet governments can be set up within a one or two, and there will always be those who may support them. Ever seen "Nazi Collaborators"? Modern examples not doing it for you? Okay. Belgium then. Belgium invaded the Congo, brutalized the people (all in the 1800s), and yet it still had an army of natives fighting for it and admiring it. Plenty of Indians supported the British, and there exist plenty of Brits who support the Ethiopians. Not many, but enough. That doesn't discount the tens of thousands of troops being diverted from crushing rebellions to fending off an invasion under the leadership of the local Ethiopian governments in Britain. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:20, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

So called "Nazi collaborators" only existed because lots of people were fond of Nazism in each country. You think 15 million white people are going to sit there and tolerate a black absolute state?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:24, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Absolute black rule? I wasn't aiming for that, and didn't you say race wasn't an issue in PMII? So you've just contridicted yourself. As for the collaborators, one Dutch man who governed the nation for Hitler did so for power, not for Nazism. When the Dutch took control, and he begged Hitler for protection, Hitler refused and he was executed. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:51, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * So those armies which the British raised from their newly conquered puppet states were a joke who didn't fight? Might I remind you the Indians didn't like the Brits but still fought becuase it was their job? How are the Welsh and English going to feed their families? By fighting for the Ethiopians and getting payed. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:56, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, that's enough. I'm locking this algorithm. Unless you are a mod, please do not edit this algorithm. Both sides have asked me to do so to ensure a quick end to this screaming match. MOD POWERS ACTIVATE CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 03:49, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

So we cool? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:19, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes. Like I was saying in chat, people take this game too seriously, like monopoly. The animosity between everyone OOCly has gotten out of hand. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 16:11, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Really.That Quashi/Hailstormer vs. Rex was an example of this; Rex repeatedly trying to take Quashi out of the game, and then Hailstormer metagaming and wiping out Rex's post.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 18:13, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid that you've missed something important. Ethiopia's algorithm does not include nation age. When this is counted as a factor, all leader territories won in the Wales war recieve a -10, because they were formed less than 5 years ago. I also believe that participation is not just a mere +10, but a +10 for each leader, but I could be wrong on this fact. CourageousLife (talk) 15:16, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Participation counts for the whole coalition. And your algorithim does not include nation age as well. Plus, it would effect your own side as if Ethiopia gets all of the participation bonuses, it still comes out on top. Also, the nation age wouldn't heavily effect Ethiopia as most of the dominions are more than five years old. Plus, you also have a withdrawal penalty as Sine pulled out of the conflict with all but one of his vassals. Oh, and since vassals count as -1 point, that would count as -2 with the withdrawal penalty tacked on. I don't know about the latter, but all I can say is that it'd screw your side up more than me. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:34, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Nation age only counts for leaders. None of our leaders were captured from the Wales war, but 4 of yours were: England, Ireland, Scottland, and Khmer Koch. CourageousLife (talk) 16:09, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Why aren't there any economic scores? Did we forget to do them? CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 16:15, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * That and the population needs updating. CourageousLife (talk) 16:19, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * True, but without France and Italia's vassals (as Scan did not commit them all), you still fall short of you desired 5:1 ratio to get your bonus. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:23, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

True. But if you use the points that you want, that keeps the war in my favor. Also, whoever added Romania and Scan's vassals need to understand that the man didn't pledge their assistance in-game. Their not a part of the war. As for you Crim, Scraw and Von stated that you can only use one at a time. Don't know what is up with that, but Von was very forceful and clear when he made his point. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:17, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Oh Crim, Zululand cannot serve as a leader as Sine stated that only Picardy would remain in the conflict as a military support (not full-fledged leader). Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:33, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I asked you on chat, but you were AFK lol. Thank you. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 16:35, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Courageous said he wanted Zapotec as a leader as well. Is there a limit on how many leaders can be in the war? CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 16:41, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Technically, there is. You can't just throw in a vassal as a lead unless it is the one declaring war, and even then it still counts as a vassal. There have been allowances for it in the past, but anything like that outside of those few rare allowances would be considered cheating. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:11, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then why are all of your vassals getting the perks of being leaders without the penalties? Barring the fact that some were directly declared war upon, you have several vassals listed as leaders. CourageousLife (talk) 21:11, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

I've added all of the proper points. This includes the populations of China, Germany, the Maya and Italy proper. I've done the same for the Ethiopians and the leaders on its side. I added the proper withdrawal points and the number of leader and vassal points that are alloed rule-wise. I only cleaned up the algorithm as best I could. Crim can of course reverse anything. I felt it to be a good place to start. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:20, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Now see here, if you can add vassals and stuff as leaders, so can we. Also Crim's leaders are all in full/personal/dynastic union with China.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  18:25, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  18:25, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

All of those in the leader bracket on my side were dominions. I only added my few dominions in as vassals to prevent them from incurring the penalties of war. Unlike yourself, I just have many more dominions than you. And as the points show, all of his dynasties are involved in the war as leaders, but it doesn't change anything as they already ahve the perks of being leaders. I already went over this with Crim in chat just an hour ago, the issue has been handled. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:30, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Viva, I locked this for a reason. Please don't edit the algorithm. I don't want another screaming match, though what I'm about to say will probably provoke one. Regarding the war, no matter whose side you're on, it's common sense that three world powers with help from a fourth one would take out one world power. Ethiopia and her vassals are outnumbered in almost every aspect. It seems to me that we need a limit on how many vassals can be leaders. Also, there is no logical way for Britain, Scotland, and Ireland to provide much to the fight after their recent capture. Three mods (Yank, Kogasa and I) agree on this thus far. I can understand being bitter over losing an algorithm or whatever because that's natural.

The proposed rule will be in a section I am posting under this war, but until we come to an agreement, Britain, Ireland, and Scotland will be removed as leaders. Again, several mods agree with this decision. This decision was made without bias towards either side in this war. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:30, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

And Khmer Koch is Saxon. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 01:23, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Why do you keep removing the +7 bonus when your attacking a nation where my main ethnic group is a minority? And England and company are puppet governments in the same way Vichy France and the Princely States were. They were set up quickly and contributed to the conflicts immediately. Heck, Vichy France was established the same year France was conquered. The Princely states were established the same way. The British can contribute to the conflict as they are defending themselves as they were the targets of the conflict. So they are not sending troops anywhere, but repelling an invasion on their own soil. Sounds more and more like your cheating and avoiding the fact that the rules discount my being outnumbered. And please explain to me why you removed half of my dominions, but kept all of your own. I'm serious, it seems that everytime you see me winning, you ignore the rules which say I win, and come up with your own to avoid defeat. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:31, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

We aren't ignoring any rules. In fact, we're following the most important rule: plausibility. Several mods checked this and agreed that the British Isles should count for leaders. There's no way they'd make a difference in the war to the same effect that they would when they're not recovering from a hostile takeover. I've told you time and time again why I edited the algorithm. Accusing us of cheating whenever something doesn't go your way is childish. As to why several dominions were removed, that question can be solved by simply reading the two posts above yours. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 04:17, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Right. So, why is it implausible for a puppet nation which is fighting to defend itself? Vichy France had 150,000 soldiers out fighting for Germany the same year it was defeated. Same for Hungary, Romania, Serbia and Croatia. Also, you still haven't explained why you lowered the motive for my nations from +7 to +5. And my actions aren't childish. When I got +7, you came up with excuses as to why it didn't make sense, and gave Scraw +7 when the main ethnic group of Germany wasn't Anglo-Saxon. You broke the spirit of the rules (in that it meant one ethnic group, not the one that belong to a certain branch), just to get +7. You spent absorbent amounts of time trying to find ways to get around the lack of leaders on your side, and simply turned your vassals into dominions. Vietnam and Zapotec were (MV) according to the history. How did they magically become leaders now? Why didn't they become (LV) according to the rules? Ajuuraan Sultanate, and the Majeerteen Sultanate aren't in the algorithm, and their all dominions. Why aren't they leaders? You got rid of my leaders and increased your own. That Crimson, is called cheating. Cheating or at least a gross lack of information. In regards to the unbiased part, I don't not trust Yank. And if you want to talk about being outnumber, Israel was always outnumbered, and yet always managed to win. And I'm not bitter about losing, something I can't understand why you fools can't get through your heads. I'm bitter about the fact that everyone keeps coming up with "special rules" or excuses as to why certain things can and cannot be done. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 13:54, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I did a little background research, and here is my defense. With that, I conclude my case. Gentlemen. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:20, September 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) First point is on the recent wars issue. Ethiopia was the only member of the empire serving as a leader during the Welsh War. Kenya, Eritrea and Borona were the only dominions serving as full military supporters, while I had the others serve as vassals to avoid war penalties (I took a gamble with fewer points). Thus, Ethiopia incurs two penalty points, while the other three incur three as they provided military aid. Scraw, however, has Germanica, Neu Berlin, Neu Prussen, and Georgia (all of whom are in the current conflict) as leaders, while the rest of his dominions served as military supporters. Thus Germany has in fact eleven penalty points instead of the seven shown. (Issue cleared up by Scraw)
 * 2) Ethiopia has fifteen infrastructure points, not ten. The rules stated it goes up to fifteen points, but I hadn't seen that when I posted the points the first time I saw the algorithm.
 * 3) Zapotec and Vietnam were originally vassals in the first redition of the algorithm. I'm not sure why they are leaders now, but it you want them that way, they have to have (LV) instead of (L), unless they were in personal union or dominions before the start of the conflict.
 * 4) Ethiopia, Adal, Kenya, Borona, and Eritrea all have Ethiopian majority populations. Since they are fighting to defend the British Isles which have minority Ethiopian populations, and their stated goal in-game was to defend the Ethiopians living there from the Germans, they should all have +7, not +5 in their motive section. Normandy is only serving as a military base, and since its serving to help the Ethiopians in Britain as part of its war plan, it keeps its +5 (as Ethiopians are a minority there as well). Also, given that England is fighting to defend itself frmo German attempts to flat out annex it, which was the stated in-game and out-of-game intent, English motive should be +10. And as Scotland and Ireland are puppet governments sending troops back to England, and were set up as dominions a year after the invasion, they should count as L, if not at least M, with +5 motive.
 * 5) And the most highly protested part is that of England, Scotland and Ireland serving as leaders. The main argument on the side of Scraw and Crimson is that there is appearent no way for them to contribute to the war. Well what has not been realised, or at least ignored, is the fact that both Scraw and Crimson stated that England was indeed the target of the invasion. As such, the local government I set up there a year after the invasion should serve as a leader in the conflict, as it is not sending troops abroad, and already had several tens of thousands of Ethiopian soldiers on the island for four good years before the start of the conflict. As I stated in-game, 57,000 soldiers had even been sent to Ireland, not from Ethiopia proper, but from Britain itself. After I captured Normandy, I fortified the region, and send 50,000 soldiers their after I won. Over a period of thirty years, it was used as a military base for Ethiopia in the region. When I invaded Britain (which was a long stated goal), the Ethiopians invaded from Normandy, and thus had all of the materiale needed to maintain a long-term government in Great Britain. Implausiblity cannot be called on to dispute a puppet government in Britain, as it had been a longtime tactic of conquerors across history, and these very same pupprt governments sent troops to aid their conquerors immediately after their defeat. Likewise, the Ethiopian government in Britain and its troops that remained after the invasion, have since be augmented by British soldiers that supported the new government, which has been a known case in the past OTL-wise before the invasion, Napoleon being the closest example for those who still wish to dispute this. One need only look at Napoleon's invasion of Russia, where nearly all of his puppet governments sent troops to assist him in the invasion even though they despised him. Of the 554,500 men of the Grand Armée, 254,500 came from the puppet governments, and from the same time period as the conflict now. So you can't dispute a puppet government serving as a major supporter, especially when its the intended target of that invasion.

Ffs, all the Dominions who were leaders in the last war are military aid now and all the Dominions who were military aid the last war are military aid now.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:15, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Right. Then if that is the case, then I shouldn't have a -10 war penalty since only three of my dominions were supporting the war like yourself. Plus, the rules clearly state, according to your own words, that any war you were a leader in in the last fifteen years, is added to the war penalty of the next war within that period of time. Changing their status does not remove the penalty, unless what you said was incorrect, in which case my penalty should be much lower. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:25, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Did you even read the rules page? Let me explain. By these rules, Ethiopia and the three dominions the were leaders in the last Celtic War EACH get -5, for five years spent as a leader. All your other leaders in THIS war each get -1 because they sent military aid to the Welsh War. Easy math.
 * For every nation that is a LEADER in your CURRENT coalition, you go back fiteen years. We shall take Nation X. These following penalties apply:
 * -1 for each war that X was sending military aid to in the last 15 years.
 * -1 for each year that X was a leader within the last 15 years.

As for me, Germanica was L in the Welsh War, and gets a -5. Chimu and Orientalia were M in the Welsh War, and L in this war, so they get -1 each.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:32, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:32, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

A simple yet polite "I think you misunderstand the point" would have been nice. Did your parents not teach you basic manners? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:55, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Er....I don't see which part of that was rude. The entirety of my statement was just clarifying the established rules.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:29, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

The way I read it sounded rude (given the past). Nevermind. Just a point of view. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:36, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. I see.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:57, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

As for Issue #2, I can explain that as well. You can't build up anything during a war. Since Ethiopia had five years of wartime (Welsh War), the maximum infrastructure it can get is 10.

Issue #3: Vietnam is in dynastic union with China, the original MV was a mistake on my part. IDK about Zapotec.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:07, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

For Issue #1, I can and did build up, but not during the war. I built up each and every turn before the war. But your point makes a level of sense as far as I can tell. As for #3, now I understand. However, the same applies to Ethiopia. If you were to look at Ethiopia's territories page (which I update every ten turns), most of Ethiopia's territories are dominions or in personal union with it. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:58, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

So. . . are we gonna close this or what? CourageousLife (talk) 20:27, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Depends. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:16, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

So, we must close this war ASAP. It has dragged on too long and I don't know what to post. If we fight for five years, then we get 15.81% after all the math. If we count all the pixels and multiply by .1581, the freedom coalition gets 17,892 pixels if I am correct. Let the claiming begin.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:30, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

The war hasn't been decided yet, and the algorithm is not yet complete. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:03, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's complete. No one has done anything for the last two days.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:05, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

No one has done anything for the last two days because Crim locked the algorithm. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:34, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

The algorithm's looking pretty complete to me. It's time to wrap this up, unless anyone has any objections that haven't been clarified yet. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 17:08, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

The Coalition gets 18% of Eithiopia. Yank 17:51, September 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * 17.5%. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:52, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

I just made my statement of all the issues with the algorithm, and Kogasa never added my dominions to the algorithm I asked about last night. Warsangali, Oyo, Benin, Yorubaland, Beja, Darfur, Kitara, should be (L), and should have +7 as motive as they are defending the Ethiopians of Britain (which Crim and Scraw stated on a number of occasions was the target of their invasion), and all have Ethiopian majority populations (and their in-game declaration was to defend the Ethiopian people living Britain). England should be (M) if not (L), and should have +10 as its motive as Crimson and Scraw stated that that was the dominion they were targetting for conquest (once again as can be found here and in our disscussion in chat). Scotland, Ireland, Brittany, Hobyo Somalia, Warqama are as they should be. Finally, the Ajuuraan and Majeerteen Sultanates are (M), and are missing from the algorithm. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:53, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

You don't just randomly get to make them all leaders. There's an unspoken limit, ya know? Same reason I only have three leaders. Also, no +10 for England, just +5 since we're working mostly for the English population, which is centered in and around the Yorkish lands. England is a vassal regardless, so its gets MV or LV. Where are these Sultanates, how long have they existed, and no, it's not possible for them to not have V.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:13, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

No, I don't know. I haven't heard of this "unspoken limit". Stating that there is (especially since your not a mod) wouldn't change my decision as the rules and the examples of thoses in the past (Scan, Lx, Von to name a few), have made it clear no such limit exists. I can add them as leaders since they are my dominions and I have that right. My sultanates have existed for nearly a hundred years (I annexed them both after the war with Von), and yes, it is possible for me to add them in the war since they are my territories as much as Neu Berlin and Orientalia are your's. They've been in my previous wars, so I can add them to this one too. Plus, you added all of your dominions and nearly all of you vassals to your war in 1772, so I highly doubt you knew or cared about this "limit" at the time. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:37, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Each of my territories was on the defensive in the 1772 war. Germanica (Bavaria, Saxony, Prussia, Netherlands, France, etc), Chimu (Italy), Orientalia (Orissa at first), Mysore (Orissa, later Siam), Georgia (Levant). As well as all the others I added in that one. Also if you read the discussion of that war you'll see me, Lx, Kun, and Von discussing it.

Scraw 03:05, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Am I not on the defensive as well? Is England not the target of your invasion? So why is it not (L) when it is both under attack and a dominion? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:10, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

You can't make a dominion out of it in one year, which you barely even had.

S 03:13, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

And this clearly shows my point. There exist no rule saying that I can't do that. So let's say this; I don't use England as a dominion, I still have seven other vassals I can use. Why can't I add them to the war? And more importantly, if my nation and dominions have stated their fighting to defend the Ethiopian minority in England from foreign aggression, why is my motive +5 when the Ethiopians are the majority ethnic group of my empire? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:27, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Because no one is out to kill Ethiopians as a whole. Or genocide/extermination. We're not Nazis or Stalinists.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:34, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't count. I can still use the motive for the same reason as you. The rule makes it clear that I can " social/moral reasons to help a minority of your nation's main ethnicity/race in another nation". Last I recall, the Ethiopians were in the war to help defend the Ethiopians of Britain. The rule doesn't apply to genocide. The Russians declared war on Austria in WWI to help the Serbs because they were Slavs like themselves. The Austrians weren't planning on any genocide, but the Russians declared their support for the Serbs anyway as one of the main reasons for joining the war (along with wanting to be the protector of Eastern Christians). Same case here. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:40, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

This war is over. The coalition gets 17.5% of Ethiopia's gains. 15.75% if the war lasts for 5 years. I have a headache. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 20:21, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

This is clearly cheating, or full-blown negligence. I just told you what was wrong with the algorithm, and how you left out my vassals and dominions, and your refusing to fix it. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:27, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

No, Viva, I was advised to lock it. We can work out the details later, perhaps in a chat with everyone in this war and an extra mod. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 23:19, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Whoever wins still gets land despite the outcome of the War of German Unification? CourageousLife (talk) 03:59, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Claims
I have put this section up to show what I think the nations would initially plausibly gain and lose. Do not edit this section until the war is over.

Ethiopia will lose its Alaskan colonies to China, regardless of the outcome to the war. If Ethiopia wins the war, the amount of px the Alaskan colonies occupy will be added onto the amount Ethiopia can claim. If China and co win, then the amount of px gained will be taken away from the total no of px they can claim.

On the flipside, China would most definately lose its colony in South Africa to the Ethiopians. If Ethiopia wins the war, the amount of px the South African colony occupies will be taken away from the amount Ethiopia can claim. If China and co win, then the amount of px lost from the colony will be added to the total no of px they can claim

ASB
I just recently (yesterday, actually) took a look back at this game, to see what the world looked like  on the (roughly) 1 year anniversary of its birth.

What have you guys been SMOKING?

Guys, really, reality check here- ETHIOPIA, a country which is landlocked except for the Red Sea, has a colony in ''Alaska? And, though I may be mistaken here, Britain? ''

I'm not even going to start on the Koori Union but dammit what were the mods doing when the Koori Union was made?

Tojiko? Really? A Japanese colony in West Africa?

'Chinese Zululand'?

I mean, guys, I appreciate that I haven't been here for a long time, but honestly, there is no way in hell that the WELSH, of all people have a colony on Mada-effing-gascar!

Guys, really, it may be none of my business, but what are you doing? Don't you think that there's a reason that the Germans OTL never really had a colonial empire? Don't you think there's a reason the Ethipians didn't annex half of Africa and Alaska? It's beacuse, simply, it was way beyond their resources, beyond their means.

Start annew.

Guns plz. That kills most games. Koori, implausible, yes. Wales, implausible, most definitely. Germany, implausible, no. I used to own large Atlantic coast and I warred my way to controlling resources fast and efficiently. #BrandenburgKlingons

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:15, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Alaska is going to the Chinese. Chinese Zululand to Ethiopia. Guns, read up in game. Britain established a world empire on its own. What were THEY SMOKING? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:17, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

That is true. I'm not suggesting that you retcon the game (wouldn't work at this point anyway), but that you literally start annew with PMIII.

Germany, Implausible, yes. Not as much as the others but Chimu just about kills your record.

Imp, the mere fact that they ESTABLISHED those colonies is stupendously ASB.

And if it had been Spain or France or Portugal or the Netherlands which established worldwide empires, I'd agree with you, it's perfectly plausible. BUT WALES?

The Brits, unlike the Germans, also had the ocean basically to themselves. The Germans have to go through the Strait of Denmark. Any idiot at war with them could cut off basically all their trade with 3 ships and a Molotov Cocktail (fire ships, that is).

Wrong again. I used to own Denmark and Norway and Sweden and Aragon and Aquitane and Luxembourg, all of which gave fine access to the Atlantic.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:29, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, the entire matter had been resolved a while ago. I explained how Ethiopia could maintain its colonies, and Collie (or Scan I think), even cleared one of the Ethiopian dominions to possess a colony it established in Canada. Also, Ethiopia also controls Somalia and Kenya, meaning it has access to the Indian Ocean and historical ports. As for Germany, OTL-wise, it had a very large colonial empire. So I won't elaborate further on that matter. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:34, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

@Scraw

Well now that's just perfectly plausible; a huge, non-contigous nation with no less than 7 languages being used in different regions, united under one nation (yes, Scraw, that was sarcasm). And though you might say that England did a similar thing, the people the Brits were colonizing were for the most part extremely primitive; not so for this lot. While it is true that such a nation can exist, it won't do so for long; look at Austria Hungary, which WAS contigous and had only 5 different peoples.

@Viva

A) No germany didn't.

B) There is no possible explanation for that. ~Guns



Viva, let me handle this one. First of all, Ethiopia has been in close contact with the Indians for a good part of two and a half centuries. This means they have traded and have been able to expand their empire to richer areas and then expand. Plus, the Ethiopians have the sea with them - have a look on the map Viva posted up here on in the the last archive. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:38, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, Luxembourg controlled Brandenburg and I turned that on its head. Boom. Luxembourg is German. The German states began to infiltrate France before its collapse and I just kept it as a vassal after that. Also Aragon and Brandenburg fell into dynastic union. Note that I lost all those lands after I no longer needed them. Although the mods unfairly hijacked Denmark from me.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:45, September 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * I feel the same with the netherlands ¬¬ Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:49, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

France didn't became a world power because of Random quitting, then the collapse of france, Same for spain, (This one instead remaining until late 1500 when the portuguese invaded them) while this the Caliphate grew, Venice took over naples,Burgundy kept controlling the netherlands and Brandenburg asserted control in germany, England soon collapsed, AP and Scraw Attacked after the independence of the Netherlands, Luxembourg gain Picardy by then Brandenburg had control of new york in north america, France had control of Colombia and Venezuela (as well as the guyanas ) Portugal took brazil the incas were taken by AP (Ignoring a previous algo of mine that allowed me to take around 20% of the Inca's land, then France collapsed again and it was given to me after the second player quit the game, eversince i've been trying to get france back on its feet and help force scraw out of some territories non-germanic,Bavaria consolidated itself a kingdom in central germany, Italia took over the balkans until the Byzantines got independent rejoining the Hellenic Union., Wales took over in mod events of the England, and the Rex came and Vassalize (Faster than it should be allowed) the Maghreb African countries, then the things get like this. This are only the European events. oh and Russia falled to the caliphate in 1560 - 1580, who collapses due to the Mahdi and fractures and Causes the fall of islam. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:49, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

I will cede Germany. Having done more research, I have found that it was very possible for Gemrnay to do this, provided that the infighting ceased, as it did ATL.

Ethiopia? Imp, there is no way for even MODERN DAY ethiopia to support a colony in ALASKA. It just doesn't figure. Even with a huge amount of Indian help- ok, though India OTL was pretty isolationist and that wouldn't have changed, but I'll let it slide- well, even India couldn't reach Alaska. The technology simply didn't exist, and there was no reason for it to. Especially since any Indian exploration would logically occur towards the east- where as your map shows the Ethiopians rounding Tierra Del Fuego and heading North!

AND WALES? Vassalizing the Maghreb? What has he been smoking- LSD?

Ethiopia, having a colony in England?

NONE of you guys think that ANY of this is, well- insane?

England is not a colony.And i also thought that the Maghred part was kinda implausible, but there was nothing i could do about that.And, you focused so much on those few examples that you forgot some others like Cyprus having a colonial empire.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:03, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Im not playing and im really only interested in joining the pm iii if it happens but who cares if its really asb theve made it work either way and they are enjoying themselves, wouldn't you like to see an eithopian alaska XD doesn't matter if your smoking or not. Nkbeeching (talk) 21:06, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

@Collie

Oh, my bad then.

@nk

The point is that it is supposed to be plausible and it isn't. Someone should add the ASB tag.

ps the only reason germany didn't have a large colonial empire was because of the infighting like you said and after unification most of the world had alredy been carved up by the time bismark finally accepted the demands of the germans for the establishment of a german colonil empire but they did in the end though lost it after the first world war. they had a much better chance of creating a colonial empire then lets say Italy, and they certainly hd more resources then portugal or holland who at one point or another held large empires themselves. Nkbeeching (talk) 21:11, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

You deleted my earlier post, lol.

Actually, Portugal and Holland were both seafaring nations- Germany was not.

But yes, as I said, I cede that point. The others though are so wildly implausible that they make Operation Sealion look downright plausible.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 21:17, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sealion was plausible. Victory wasn't. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:22, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Lol. Fair enough. But you get my point.

Ah sorry my bad, well i only said they possessed greater resources, true those were sea faring countries, they had no other choice but to become seafaring countries. but back to the original pooint, who doesn't want to see an eithopian alaska or for that matter any country owning alaska it makes a great story. but i understand the point about plausibility not that i really care i just wanted to discuss something with domeone right now i didnt really have any interest in getting into deep talks, to bored from studying for my freaking finals. Nkbeeching (talk) 21:37, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

You have finals?

I just got back to school and have a s***load of hw already =(

yeah the endo f my first year in university, dont forget that south of the ecuador the seasons are different im eaving winter right now and going into spring, my vacatiions are december jan and feb.  yeah high school sucked luckily i finished two years ago Nkbeeching (talk) 21:54, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Just a thought here, but this is a game in addition to being a timeline. We're all playing nations which we've spent "hundreds of years" building up to be superpowers with very careful moves designed to shape the future. Hence, seeing as this game is now almost 400 years old and has a lot more detail and points of divergance than a normal timeline, it's not entirely ASB to do a lot of stuff we've been doing. We might push the limits of plausibility, but we try to do so by making moves subtly to enable us to do otherwise ASB things years down the road. I know I started making moves to enable my 20th Century post-whaling economy all the way back in the late 1600s. I don't know how many people are thinking that far ahead but the point is that the level of detail in this game enables a lot of developments that seem weird in OTL. But a lot of it is at least mildly plausibile, and since we've gotten this far down the road, I've been making the case - I think rightly - that introducing OTL constraints on development is ASB in itself at this point. Commandante Lemming (talk) 14:01, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

And to a point, this is true. But no state the size of Wales, or as isolated as Ethiopia, could ever achieve such gigantic empires. Wales especially; they simply don't have the resources. Ethiopia might be plausible if you went back a few more centuries. But have you seen the Welsh? The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 18:18, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

LOL. Actually I thought the Welsh thing was quite plausible seeing as England itself had long since collapsed and splintered in the timeline. Wales might have been small compared to OTL England, but it was in pretty decent shape compared to the ATL post-English microstates of Lincoln, York, and Cornwall. I think Wales and Scotland in that situation would both be in pretty good situations to subdue the surrounding kingdomes and take primacy. Commandante Lemming (talk) 18:36, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

PMIII Proposal
Hey all. PMII is in its last 200 turns and boy has it been a ride. I have a few ideas I wish to share for PMIII. Anyone else is free to add their own ideas so long as you sign after them.
 * 1) Earlier start time. We have had 1420 and 1450. I think its time to unwind to 1350 for some more interesting situations worldwide. Scandinator (talk)
 * 2) A slight rewrite of the algorithm to include national unity (or something similar). Scandinator (talk)
 * 3) Debuffs for all areas of the world until they fulfill a set of requirements. Scandinator (talk)
 * 4) Rethink industrialization concept. It was good on paper, but was rather sloppy in its execution. Some prior forethought into the matter to avoid the confusion and debate in the next game would be nice. Vivaporius (talk)
 * 5) Improve and refine colonization concept for PMIII. While I agree that it rather water-tight as of now, I think some further discussion on the matter as to how to improve it would be a significant development for the future game. Vivaporius (talk)
 * 6) Allow further technological advances. Of course the system now is good, but if nations in Asia become world powers, the progress of science is a whole load faster, especially if the government emphasis is on the subject. Otherwise we will be stuck with laptops in 2013, not building terraforming stations over Venus. ;) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 06:51, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7) Firm (but hopefully not restrictive) rules on expansion and colonization for tribal nations (Selk'nam, Koori, etc.) and non-OTL powers (Ethiopia, Maya, etc.). Address in advance whather or not European and Asian nations get special privileges to avoid recriminations and arguments over whether non-European powers are to be considered ASB. This seemingly has been a major problem in this game, with certain players demanding that African/American/Oceanian powers be allowed to rise. and some insisting that European powers should not be subject to off-continent attack, or that they should always behave as superiors when relating to non-Europeans. Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:40, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8) I would like for there to be at least one mod who does not play as a nation, who would be completely unbiased. They handle the algorithms where one or more mods are in the conflict, so there's no way that it could swing one way or another because of what user is playing. CourageousLife (talk) 20:29, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9) Expansion from land to coast should be harder and slower, but inwards expansion from coast to land should be easier. (This means through black areas.) ~ Scraw 21:46, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 10) In the algorithm, the development scores should range based on how much total, not just 15 years. For example, if a weak nation has +15 military and a strong one has a +5 even though it has one of the most powerful militaries in the world, this is not fair. Each nation should have individual development scores, which can be assigned everytime a map is made. ~ Scraw
 * 11) Dare I suggest moving at two years per turn? That would allow the game to finish in in one year instead of two. Commandante Lemming (talk) 02:40, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

That all sounds good - I'm a little iffy on technical advances earlier for Asia as they would probably tip the balance in favor of Asia over Europe (which isn't neccessarily BAD, but it might be a bit unfair to players in Europe). Personally I was planning a PM3 strategy contingent on a mid-1400s start, but I think I can probably play in the same region with an even stronger chance of accomplishing my goal with an earlier start. My only question then would be whether a jump-start in technology would also enable a jump start in colonization. Just for the sake of gameplay, if we set colonization limits at 1500, some players may get boxed in and bored in the first 200 turns. I personally am not too worried about that (yeah I'm dropping hints) but I probably would be if my plan was to play a relatively small European nation in OTL France or Germany. Commandante Lemming (talk) 14:13, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

All I know is that I want to be Florence. Also, I remember Scan wanting to be China in PMII. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 14:30, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well if we're calling nations I'm looking at my options in Siberia as the Golden Horde starts to collapse. I think it's an underexploited region that would make a nice follow up to my Selk'nam adventure, so I may discuss what nations can be carved out at the point of divergence. Commandante Lemming (talk) 14:43, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

For me, if we're going to start in 1350, probably i'll call Portugal again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:12, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to call Korea next game if it's okay. -Kogasa  2013 September 10, 18:00 (CET)

I'd like to call Britain/England.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 16:06, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to call Ethiopia once again. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:03, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to call Scotland. Yank 17:44, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought you'd wanted to be Japan next game? -Kogasa [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|50px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|23px|border]] 2013 September 10, 19:55 (CET)
 * I'd like to call the Kalmar Union. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 18:16, September 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * If I'm going to be Japan they're going to Christianize ASAP. Even if it's a hybrid religion like Jiduhism. Yank 20:05, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * So, will you be choosing Japan or can I have it? The only reason why I didn't choose it was because I though you'd wanted it. -Kogasa [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|50px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|23px|border]] 2013 September 10, 22:10 (CET)
 * I'd like to stick with Europe for once. For now I'm going for Scotland. We'll see when PMII comes around. Yank 20:17, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. In that case I'll call Japan for PMIII. If you ever change your mind let me know. -Kogasa [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|50px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|23px|border]] 2013 September 10, 22:21 (CET)
 * I'll put in my reservation for the Mayans again (or Aztecs, depending on when the start date is). CourageousLife (talk) 20:26, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

If we're doing round robin - anyone have their heart set on Russia? I don't want it, but the presence, or lack thereof, of a strong Russia is going to be a big factor in my game, and if there is russian player I will want to talk to them before the game starts. Commandante Lemming (talk) 18:59, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well he hasn't posted yet but I know that Lx will be pissed if someone takes Russia. Unless you do something like the Russian Confed. from early on in this game (before your time I think) The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 21:41, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I say that the start should be in 1400. Also, regardless of the start time, I wanted England, but that is unfortunately taken so I shall settle on China if still available. If not, (in order of preference) Vietnam, Korea, Ottomans, or Mughals.

Scraw 21:46, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

The Mughals came in 1517, while the Ottomans were pretty disorganized until 1420 ish. Korea is taken, I believe. But have fun with China. I NOW HAVE THE COOLEST SIG ON THE WIKI!

China it is then.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:00, September 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * China's claimed by Scan. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 22:01, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Plz. Has he said it yet? If you really persist on this, then I'll just move on down to the Crown of Aragon.
 * Scraw 22:05, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I claimed it a year ago :P Scandinator (talk) 09:53, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Do it! Also, your sig has gone massive- YET AGAIN!

Dammit! Thought I fixed it...

~ S 22:08, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Make it into a template

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:19, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

That's how it already is...

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:26, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry I'm not going to steal Russia, I was just going to see who was playing it becasue I intend on building an Asian Siberian power behind Russia - the idea being to seewhat happens in a timeline where Russia doesn't have unimpeded access to Siberia and the Pacific - but I don't want to get blown off the map by and angry Russian player either. If there's a strong Russian player then I'll likely back off and build an Asian nation in the OTL Russian Far East. If there isn't, I might just play as the Samoyedic peoples in the Urals and stop the Russian Empire from forming in the first place. But if Lx wants to keep Russia then I'll build something further East (Actually, if Lx wants to have some real fun and we shift back to 1350, I would encourage him to play as the Golden Horde, prevent it's demise, eliminate the nascent Russian Empire at it's origin, and build a Muslim power in East Europe - now THAT would shake things up.) Commandante Lemming (talk) 22:31, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Matter of fact, I'll just take Aragon. Lemming, I suggest Manchuria or Korea.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:33, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

@Scraw

Well, clearly not...

@Lemming

Don't worry, Lx won't flip. But really, take one of the Siberian peoples then, not one of the proper Rus.

Hey! Just had an idea.

Why not start PMIII now?

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:35, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I won't be taking an established nation. If I'm starting in 1350 in a baren wasteland I'm starting from scatch. I'm thinking maybe the Koryak peoples on Kamchatka could adopt Chinese and Japanese influeance and build a Buddhist Asian nation on the sea of Okhotsk - or Maybethe Evenks on the Amur River. That oughta be a nice suprise for the Russians when they arrive 300 years later :-) I'm playing the tribal game this time - it'll be even more fun if I do it from the get-go.

And I'd be all for starting it now but not for wrapping up PM2, I want to finish this sucker out.

Commandante Lemming (talk) 22:41, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I agree.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:43, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Ik, that's what I was suggesting. Run 'em simultaneously. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:44, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

That won't work as the players will immediately move to PMIII and let PMII die. That's what happened to all the other major map games the moment PMII began. Also, Scraw when I read your rule proposal, it almost entirely mirrors the current war between Ethiopia and the Sino-German Alliance. There have been many examples of a minor power defeating a major power throughout history. Greece vs. Persia, Japan vs. Russia, Switzerland vs. Holy Roman Empire, any number of barbarians vs. the Roman Empire. By assign individual development points, that in and of itself is unfair, as it doesn't permit a minor power to grow and become a major power. England was at one point a minor power, and could have been destroyed by Spain, but it became a major power after facing the odds and dethroning the world power of that time. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:05, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of making it easier for colonies to conquer native nations, but your example works too.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:37, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Fine. I can wait another 200 days. Though I somehow doubt it will get that far... The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:49, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Guns plz. PM always lasts.

~ S 23:51, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw, you have one example of that.

One data point a trend does not make. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:58, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I actualy posted before, stating my desire to, for the moment, be set as a russian nation, seeing as we do not know what the start date would be, therefore almost impossible to form strategy as a response to Leming's first querry on Russia. unfortunately, editconflict happened and I closed laptop as soon as I saw page reloading(most of the time meaning edit was submitted, only to find out now it did not go through. The Muslim GH option looks like it might be interesting, to change things up(i did despotic Muscovite russia, now i'm doing mercantile, democratic novgorodian russia)...but i will wait first so that I know what time period. For the time being put me down as a russian state(due to the fact that different time periods yield different balances of power in russia and in eastern europe/northwestern asia in general)-Lx (leave me a message) 00:56, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh right, another thing, we probably shouldnt start PMIII before PMII finishes...running two (extremely) similar map games simultaneously, and expecting people to pay as much attention to one as the other is an absurd idea. you can at best hope for half copy-pastey and half actual edits, with the ones copy-pasting in PMIII actual editing in PMII and vice versa, and an eventual loss of intrest in one or the other, to the detriment of both. I want maximum success for both games, so I humbly suggest to wait out PMIII untill PMII finishes.

'''On a completely unrelated sidenote: I am posting this here because I know ceveral BFE contributors are also PMII contributors. you do not need to read this if you are not interested in Battle for Earth.'''The New BFE map game was delayed and never started due to summer and many people being gone...this should not be the case anymore...It would be best if people running the game would know who is still in, and perhaps new people that would like to join, please say so on the talk page of Battle for Earth Strikes Back. I want to start this up ASAP, and ask players to at least add a bit of history to the BFE: Prime Timeline, and do some personal alien nation history(or human nation history with alien artifacts left behind...) to add to the BFE Universe. -Lx (leave me a message) 01:06, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well Guns, if you're really itching for action, PM2 itself has a bunch of prime real estatem, especially in Central Asia, why not jump into the sandbox? I know the timeline has gotten pretty complicated and some weird moves have been made, but that happens with any game. I know I'd personally love to have a Persian or Dimurati player back in the game, that or take over one of the "ASB" colonies and see what you can do with it. You know you want to give in to the crazy. 200 turns isn't that long and the game could proably use a little new blood. Seriously though, we need more people who want to do serious alternate history in this game, it would enrich the timeline, and I think you could have some fun until we get PM3 going later. Commandante Lemming (talk) 02:40, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

If we're calling stuff can I call the Byzantines? :D Airlinesguy (talk) 12:54, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh i call the Ottomans :D And if i cant have them then ill take Venice or the Papal States :) DS|Im Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs!! 16:22, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

The Ottomans were pretty disorganized at the time, assuming we're starting at 1350, though you're welcome to give it a shot. You never know what you could pull off. Though I'd advise against claiming the Italian states ;) CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 20:43, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

I also advise against Italy and the Ottomans. Italy will have two powerful nations with players in there already (me and Crim), so not the best move. Ottomans are randomly dead. I suggest a small state in Central Germany to get you started.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:16, September 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I thought you were going to be Aragon :( CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 23:56, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am. I have Naples and Athens! :P
 * Scraw 23:57, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Naples was captured by Aragon in 1442 by Alfonso I. Even then, it was a dependency. Athens, on the other hand, was captured by Aragon in 1311. However, Florence captured the city in 1388. After some wars with Venice over the city, Florence finally came out on top and controlled the city until 1458. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:46, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dang. I'll make it a point to speed that up XD.
 * Scraw 00:48, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd advise against that ;) CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:52, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

In fact, you cannot play as the Ottomans if we start in 1350 because OH HEY THEY DIDN'T EXIST YET.

Othman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire (ish, until 1420 it was disorganized and unimportant) was born in 1356 so ATL wouldn't be born at all; thus no Ottoman Empire would exist.

But I recommend we start in 1400 anyway because that was around the founding of the Kalmar Union.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:21, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

I think 1400 is a good year to start.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:26, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

CORRECTION!!!! I WILL BE PERSIA!!!!!!! Either 1350 or 1400 ill still be a powerhouse :) DS|Im Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs!! 17:23, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

So as far as I can tell, Kogasa and Crim like 1400, Collie likes 1350, Scan has no opinion, and neither AP nor Lurk have posted in, wow, months now. Persia. Yeah, umm, no. That was 1500s. At this point, Persia was really weak. It was the Safavids who made Persia great again, in 1501. At this point you have a disorganized state recovering from the Ilkhanate. Still, it could be powerful. Have fun, Dean. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 19:11, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Really.Persia in 1350 will be divided among the Jalayrid, Chupanid, Muzaffarid, Hazaraspid, Baduspanid, Bavanid, Mihrabanid, Injuid and Kartid dynasties's domains, aside of the Gilite, Sarbadar and Shabankara kingdoms.don't forget Shirvan as well.It makes for a more interesting scenario, while in 1400 you'll have the Timurids in their peak.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:54, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Care to explain yourself in why you were deleting my reply?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:01, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Collie. Not intentional. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 13:33, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

If Airlines doesn't takes Byzantium i would like to have it, but I call dibs on France or Spain. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:12, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Spain is not a country. Byzantium was never the name of the Eastern Roman Empire, which was as good as dead. Iberia already houses Portugal and Aragon, so unless you want to be sandwiched in by them, I suggest France.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  01:16, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * And don't forget Navarra.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:01, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * OH Please start in 1400, oh please oh please :) Ill be a good Perisa XD Also, i can finally establish that Middle Eastern Empire i wanted to make in PM2 without the threat of Europe crusading me lol. And i promise NO CALIPHATE lol, im gonna be an Empire, pure and simple, and once i reahc my desired borders, which actually arent that insane, ill stop expanding and focus completley on staying on peaceful relations with everyone and get rich from trade, might establish a colony or two in East Afirca for trading bases, but otherwise stay totally focused on the homeland. DS|Im Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs!! 14:24, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: Am i Muslim at this time?


 * So, I am interested (obviously) in joining PM3 when it comes out. I am just considering nations to be. I enjoy European history from 1400-1800 the most, with Western History from 2000 BC-Present being interesting, also. I was thinking of being part of the HRE (Saxony?) or the Teutonic Order. Any other suggestions? Thanks,  (PS. I am also thinking Burgundy, but want to hear your thoughts)


 * I would also like to claim the Romans, but seeing as how two people claimed that already, I doubt I would get it. If not, I would like to call something Mongol, maybe the Golden Horde.
 * Monster Pumpkin (talk) 19:39, September 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lx may take Golden Horde but you could probably have some un with split-off in Siberia - that or unite a tribe like the Buryats or Yakuts in Siberia. I think I've setttled that I'm playing as the Nivkh people on the Amur River so OTL Russia could be crowded. (which I like) Commandante Lemming (talk) 20:16, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinator

 * 1) Earlier start time would mean a new scenario. 1350 means Europe is at its lowest point while the Middle East is collapsing. 1400 means the Middle East has collapsed while Europe is at its most fractured. Both present interesting options for gameplay and opening moves.
 * 2) National Unity is important as if there are multiple ethnic and cultural groups unintegrated into the nation then there will be dissent and rebellion within your nation at peace and at war. However this will be hard to implement and maintain.
 * 3) Debuffs. The regions and nations of the world were good and bad at various areas. Certain areas fielded excellent cavalry, others had immense navies while others had archers and infantry beyond compare. Each area was ahead in its own field but behind in others; until you manage to work around it then you are weaker in a certain way in the algorithm or in another way.
 * 4) I fully support a rework of the industrialisation chart and implementation. Stricter guidelines and harsher penalities for those that step out of plausibility are also required. Some of the steps on the chart were only achievable near the end and it was obivous that some people were doing things just for the table and hadn't done research into what was possible or not.
 * 5) A rework of the colonisation system is also required. We have tiny nations like Cyprus with large colonial empires. True there were cases of such in OTL but they were single territories and/or scattered islands (Belgium and Holland). Im unsure about how to go about this though...
 * 6) Technological Advancement beyond OTL is a good point and should be implemented although carefully monitored to avoid exploitation.
 * 7) Firm rules on continental expansion are required especially for tribal nations. Mods should be very strict with the original size of the nation. In addition, continental expansion rates should be of a proportional value to the main nation instead of the current one value fits all.
 * 8) The idea for a neutral mod is good but implausible. They would soon lose interest.
 * 9) Im not quite sure what Scraw means, but currently all black land is the same, it completely ignores terrain. I believe that expansion in deserts, mountains and other difficult terrain should be slower while coastal and river expansion should be faster and easier.
 * 10) An algorithm rework on that scale will be open for corruption and misuse. Population covers for that at the moment
 * 11) Nonononononono.

Kogasa

 * 1) To be honest I liked it better starting around the 1400s. I think the next game should start in 1400.
 * 2) That can possibly work.
 * 3) I personally like to think that any nation I play, unless I mention something different, goes on similar to OTL. That includes industrial.
 * 4) I agree. What Scan said above.
 * 5) I think colonisation is fine the way it is now. But that's just me.
 * 6) I fully agree with this one. Why be limited to technology OTL when we have industrialisation earlier than OTL?
 * 7) Again, what Scan said.
 * 8) It would be difficult. I disagree.
 * 9) Once again, what Scan said. Actually now thinking about it, my expansion on Kamchatka was limited due to terrain, and I couldn't expand the full 10000 sq km maximum (it was cut to 5000 sq km maximum). But I guess that's a different story.
 * 10) No. I agree with Scan above on this issue.
 * No.

CrimsonAssassin

 * 1) It's Principia Moderni (beginning of the modern) for a reason. 1400 is a good start date.
 * 2) This is going to be a pain to work in. I remember trying to integrate stability into algorithms in PMI not going very well.
 * 3) This could be interesting, but I don't think it should be a debuff. I think we should reward players for completing goals (like Italy unifying or Britain having a huge empire)
 * 4) This
 * 5) What would really help is a mapmaker for Europe and one for Asia.
 * 6) This
 * 7) What Scan said, but also we shouldn't give non-European powers special treatment.
 * 8) He/she would lose interest quickly
 * 9) What Scan said
 * 10) From what I've seen, most people who aren't in PM say that they haven't joined because they think it's too late. It's never too late, of course, but with a rule like this, new players would quickly be overwhelmed. Even with an NPC bonus, it'd be a pain.
 * No

Collie Kaltenbrunner

 * 1) Both 1350 and 1400 are good start dates.But i favour personally 1350.
 * 2) This is a good idea, but wouldn't it be difficult to implement?
 * 3) What is that?
 * 4) I agree with Scan again.
 * 5) I guess so.
 * 6) We should be careful with that.
 * 7) I agree with Scan.
 * No, it wouldn't work.for instance, in PMI, by the 1950's, i basically had lost all interest in the game when the expansion possibilities had ended, and the only thing keeping me from leaving was the fact that i still needed to make the maps, and even then, my posts became strictly copy-pasting.Okay, this might not be the best example, but you get the point.Why somebody would try to moderate a game that he has no involvement on?
 * 1) I agree with Scan again.Expansion through the Appalachians and the Sahara, for example, really should be more difficult.Also, inland Africa and Australia, up to a point.
 * 2) I will go with Scan's opinion.
 * 3) And the scale of posts would double, since we would have two years in one post.For some, nothing would change, as their posts are already copy-pasting, but some would be stuck with walls of text.And then we would have to rework the algorythm and the colonial system, just for starters.Your idea had good intentions, but it is simply impracticable.

:The Semi-Official Claims for PM3
In the following format claim your nation in PM3

Nation Name: Your signature

Europe

 * Roman Empire (Byzantines): Monster Pumpkin (talk) 00:33, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * England: I claimed England first! Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 17:28, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Florence: CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 19:44, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kingdom of Bohemia:
 * Moravia --
 * Silesia --
 * Lusatia --
 * Brandenburg --   This is UglyTurtle, Signing off.
 * Brabant --
 * Luxembourg --
 * Bohemia's close to Hungary, right Imp? 
 * Rex does not control all of these states.
 * "Vassals", apparently. Hey, but I could use a bunch of them. I want the Baltic under my control, and some of these look awfully tempting, you know.
 * We can add our vassals?
 * Russians(for now)-Lx (leave me a message) 19:59, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Crown of Aragon ~ Scraw 21:28, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Naples <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * Athens <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * Sicily <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * Navarre <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * Portugal: --Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:34, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Castile : -#LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 20:32, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * If we start in 1400, the Kalmar Union. If in 1350, Denmark.
 * France:Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:26, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Teutonic Order: Yank 22:50, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Republic of Genoa:Flag of Nazi Austria (No Belgium).svgCancom2.jpgian, Hail Marius (Play With Oct!)Cancom2.jpgFlag of Nazi Austria (No Belgium).svg 02:07, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hungary: (maybe) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:48, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Croatia (PU): [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:37, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lordship of Jever : Callumthered (talk) 22:34, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Papal State:

Africa

 * Ethiopia - Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:26, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Asia

 * Ashikaga Shogunate/Japan - Kogasa
 * China - Scandinator (talk)
 * Empire of Trebizond:
 * Nivkh People (Amur River area): Commandante Lemming (talk) 22:18, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * if I can't get back England( someone removed my claim) then I will take Nippon( Japan)Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) (I already claimed Japan though. -Kogasa)
 * Vijarayana empire  Praetorian_Flag.png RoG_Flag.png Mafia (Questions?) Falklands Flag.png

Middle East

 * Perisa/Timurids: DS|The Rainbow Machete 19:38, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yemen: Willster22 (User talk:Willster22) 03:42, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

North America
Mayans/Aztecs (depending on start date) - CourageousLife (talk) 02:37, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

ApacheGrantzu (talk) 22:04, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Germanica

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength: Germanica (L), Mysore (L), Orientalia (L), Neu Berlin (M), Wales (MV), England (MV), Maroko (M), Neu Prussen (M), Chimu (M), Georgia (M), Byakuren (S): 32/92 = 0
 * Military Development: 10/28 = 0
 * Economy: 0/0 = 0
 * Infrastructure 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: +10 +10 +10 = +30
 * Chance: +4
 * Edit Count: 12,430
 * UTC Time: 17:27 = 98
 * 98/12430*pi = 0.0247687916373146
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -17
 * Total: 44

The Coalition

 * Location: +2 (+4 Saxony, Bavaria, Anhalt; +3 Cologne, +4 Tanimbarkai, Indonesia; +3 Orissa)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Bavaria (L), Saxony (L), Anhalt (L), Cologne (L), Tanimbarkai (L), Indonesia (L), Orissa (L), Rajputana (M), Dahod (MV), Nepal (MV), Bhutan (MV), Mataram (M), Brunei (M), Naya Bihar (M), Sulwasi (MV), Rokkaku Shogunate (M), Okinawa (MV), Yorubaland (L), Darfur (L), Kitara (L), Benin (L), Ethiopia (M), Kenya (M), Eritrea (M), Borona (M), Adal (M), Warsangali (M), Majeerteen Sultanate (MV), Ajuuraan Sultanate (MV), Beja (MV), Persia (L), Baghdad (M), Kuwait (MV), Aq Qoyunlu (MV): 99/32 = +3
 * Military Development: +33/10 = +3
 * Economy: +5/0 = +5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 +7 +7 +7 +3 +3 +7 +7 +7 +7 +7+7= 76
 * Chance: +3
 * Edit Count: 2,113
 * UTC Time: 14:23 = 24
 * 24/2113*pi = 0.0356830211482063
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -25

Total: 112

Result

 * ((112/(44+112)*2)-1 = 0.435897%
 * 43.58*(1-1/(2*3)) = 36.316%

Discussion
Assholes.

~ Scraw 21:51, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

If it's any consolation, Scraw, you won the war with that title. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:01, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, it's not, but thanks anyways. :P

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:05, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

It's just a map game.

But if you want to join me in PMII exile, then I recommend you use my departure speech. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:09, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

lolk.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:10, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

I liked the old name better. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:15, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

You think that name will get you mod approval (well apart from one mod). Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:18, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Techno, Imp? Techno? What are you, Skrillex in diguise? The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:19, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

XD

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:20, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

That name isn't going to fly. Both you and Viva have been getting out of hand and it needs to stop. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 23:17, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

How I'm I out of hand? All I did was state that what you did was wrong. Aside from that, i'm pretty pleasant right now. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:20, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

^ That was an interesting comment. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:21, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

OK Crim. Just got a tad bit bored.

Scraw 23:23, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

It is an interesting comment Guns. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:23, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

And that reply was just a thing of beauty. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:25, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! :D Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:26, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Much welcome xD The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:32, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Nice try Scraw, but thanks to you and Crim, not of the (L) dominions I have were able to provide direct aid to the last conflict (no penalty), and joining as (M) doesn't incur a penalty. I made sure to check, and even asked Imp (feel free to speak to him for assurance). Funny looking back at it now. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:53, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, shit. Scraw, you are now truly screwed. You were banking on viva being, umm, viva... The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:56, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Boom. Headshot. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:58, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Let me quote the strength from the Celtic War: See that? Yoruba, Darfur, Kitara, and Benin all gave military aid in the Celtic War. -1 for each of them.
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L), Kenya (M), Eritrea (M), Borona (M), Adal (MV), Warsangali (MV), Normandy (MV), Oyo (MV), Benin (MV), Yorubaland (MV), Beja (MV), Darfur (MV), Kitara (MV), Majeerteen Sultanate (MV), Ajuuraan Sultanate (MV), Germanica (L), Neu Berlin (L), Neu Prussen (L), Georgia (L), Chimu (M), Mysore (M), Orientalia (M), United Maharajya (L), Rajputana (L), Dahod (MV), Nepal (MV), Bhutan (MV), Mataram (M), Brunei (M), Naya Bihar (M), Sulwasi (MV) = 85/32 = +3

And here's the strength from Me and Crim and our friends vs you: See that, too? More Yoruba, Darfur, Kitara and Benin sending military aid. Once again, -1 for each.
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L), Kenya (L), Eritrea (L), Borona (L), Normandy (L), Adal (L), Warsangali (MV), Oyo (MV), Benin (MV), Yorubaland (MV), Beja (MV), Darfur (MV), Kitara (MV), Brittany (MV), Hobyo Somalia (MV), Warqama (MV)  England (MV), Scotland (MV), Ireland (MV)= 50/97 = .515= 0

And here's a direct quote from the rules page:

Recent Wars And here's a link:
 * 1) Every war that you sent military aid to in the last 15 years is -1.
 * 2) Every year of war in the last 15 years that you fought as a leader is -1.

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Rules_(Principia_Moderni_II)#Recent_Wars

So, uh, yea, you're giving your pals a -8 penalty.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:09, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals do not incur penalty. As I recall telling you on this very page, I rolled with my dominions as vassals to avoid the penalty in the Welsh conflict. In the last war, I tried to roll with them as military supporters, by Crim said it was retard (in his usual manner), and kept them as vassals. So, uh, no, I'm not giving my pals -8 penalty. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:17, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * For the record, I'm much more eloquent than that. I've been having a rough week. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 04:25, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes they do. I speak from experience with Von; status does not matter. Note that I gave myself the appropriate -7 for Mysore and Orientalia.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:20, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I speak form experience as well, and my vassals do not get the penalty. Kinda strange how you went from -8 to -20. But no, they don't get the penalty. And the proof in that is that Crim and Courage ran their vassals as (MV), but when they needed more points they rolled (L). (V) doesn't get a penalty, and that is quite evident in every war in the game, unless the vassals didn't use (V) in their strength points, at which the incur the penalty. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:25, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, they (vassals) do incur the penalty, as Von demonstrated to me in my first war after the First Big German War. I made my vassals into dominions, just like you, and I was informed that they incurred penalties just like any other state. And you can't hold me accountable for their actions.

Also, -25 comes in because Bavaria and Saxony both fought six years (1814 - 1820) in the war with Switzerland.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:29, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Still no, as you weren't saying that until I mentioned it. That alone shows that your looking for an excuse to create the penalty. But if it'll make you feel better, I'll roll with the penalty. Doesn't change anything. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:36, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Actually I was going to say that, but you edit conflicted it. Anywho, I'll accept your accepting! :D

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:40, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what I'm supposed to contribute, but the algo looks solid enough. I hate examining and/or doing algos. Math has never been my strong suit. Anyway, the way it looks it seems like Germanica is gone. Sorry Scraw, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I could have one of your colonies declare independance and you can play as that. Sorry for not being more help. Yank 01:17, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Imp said I could go to Neu Berlin, so I'll be writing about that.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  01:29, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Viva, where are all these +7s coming from? I'm not oppressing your Ethiopians in England. They're just doing their thing.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  01:31, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

The rules state that I can join to support a minority of the country that is a majority in my own: " Social/Moral Kinsmen: Fighting for social/moral reasons to help a minority of your nation's main ethnicity/race in another nation= +7". You made the mistake of taking England from me with a large number of my people still living there, and out of the desire to aid them in the name of their families back in Ethiopia. For that reason (and to get England back) I'm joining the war. Heck, England invaded Ethiopia in thr 1870s to free some British subjects that the Emperor refused to let leave the country. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:33, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Persia would like to claim the 2 German Armenias. I know we aren't in the war, but I will join if that is deemed necessary. Thanks,

I'm sure someone can give it to you if you can learn the damn name.

Also, Viva, your Ethiopian population in England is something like X000, and I'll gladly give you your X000 people.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:58, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I think you forgot that I left the entire invasion force in England as a resettling and anti-insurgency tactic, which I explained numerous times in the past. There are actually there are several tens of thousands of Ethiopians in England. After I gave Sine Normandy and Brittany, those Ethiopians living there were transferred to England instead of Ethiopia simply due to cost and distance, and also a part of the transition of power. Plus, there were a good number of Ethiopians that moved to England after the conquest over a period of seven years looking for work after the English fearing Ethiopian oppression moved away (in the text I made proceeding the invasion). So a good 3-5% of the population are Ethiopian. So unless you can divert a large number of your warships from the conflict to moving a good chunk of the British population to hostile Ethiopia, I doubt you can give me XXX000 people. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:03, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, right, you don't have Normandy anymore. I was just gonna transfer everyone there. Damn.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:08, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I go away for 12 hours and this happens.

Now for the issues more important. Scraw will be allowed to retire to Neu Berlin, provided it does not become leader in this conflict. I was going to allow him to keep Georgia too, becuase it would have made his moves interesting and given the game more flavour (Germans from Antillia changing the population into Germans in Georgia, boy that would have been interesting), but I think Yank had other plans. And I'm pretty sure I'm not happy with Prussia being annexed.

Italia plans to join in the war too. He told me to post that he joined the war, but I felt it would be most appropriate if he posted it himself. Apart from that, I think that will be all. And Scraw, would you like to change Neu Berlin to the colour on my Map Contest map? Just a suggesstion, but I think it'll look good on your new nation. So yeah. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:23, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Really, Scraw. I didn't copyright my resignation speech. A bit dated, but I liked it. Here you go, and enjoy! The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 12:57, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Kunarian's been gone for a month, and I didn't remember any resignation or notice of leave. Yank 13:28, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

So, Persia had already declared war on Germany, but wasn't included so I added it myself. Now the war will only last 3 years.

I'm back after an unexpectedly long leave due to comic-con...and I found out this happened...so...is it too late for russia to make a difference...at all? is the war over? should I just give up on helping one of russia's remaining strong allies?-Lx (leave me a message) 01:49, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Uh, I think there's two days left.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:04, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Claims


That should roughly be the claims I guess. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:44, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Thus far this pleases Germany. I thank all the allies for there aid in this troubling time. My peace rule Europe, and the world.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 18:04, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Saxony is pretty keen on keeping the (formerly Ethiopian, and before that Welsh) colony in Australis which we traded Germanica for two years back. But I'm willing to negotiate. Other than that, looks great. Callumthered (talk) 19:40, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

And I'm pretty keen on getting my lands back for my role in winning this war. I contributed the most to this wonderful little conflict, so I'd be happy on getting my stuff back. That's all I'm asking for. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:06, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

And I completely understand that. However, it should be noted that I did the land swap with Germanica before the war began. What would you want as compensation for the Australis colony? Guinea Schuzgebiet and...? Guinea is close to your posessions in otl Nigeria and is perfectly placed to assist with Ethiopia's taking all of the Guinea coast. And The colony about which I speak was yours for a quite  short period, between you taking it from Wales and Germanica taking it from you. Callumthered (talk) 02:00, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Wait guys, the Netherlands was going to be Italian. I'm sure I mentioned this to Andrew, but I don't think remembered and me, (being a fuc**ing idiot) forgot to colour it into Italia's colour. Sorry again -.- Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:29, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * True. Callumthered (talk)

I never expected something like this coming from Andrew and Callum; that is, letting Italy surround them. Foolishness upon foolishness. Also, what in the name of god does Italia have to do with THE nETHERLANDS?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  15:45, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Never heard of the Austrian Netherlands? Or the Spanish Netherlands? And it is less foolish than letting you surround us and basically block off our sea connection. Callumthered (talk) 18:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Just saying, but the OTL Netherlands eventually revolted.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Naturally they'll eventually revolt and secede. As will Poland. Callumthered (talk)

The new State divisions of the Greater Germanic Reich


This is a map of the 10 states of the Reich, each state receives equal representation in the ''Bundestag. Each State will receive electors based on population in the Senat, and will freely elect men for the Reicheshaus.''

I'm pretty sure I reclaimed England from Scraw Andrew. Imp, I thought you handled this. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:17, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wait, I thought you were fine with Andrew having England. You've confused me. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:26, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought you were giving me England. That's why I joined this war, to get it back from Scraw. :/ Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:00, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Viva should get Wales and England, cause having Wales and not England is just plain stupid. So is the reverse.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:03, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I'll settle for giving him part of England, but not the whole, I joined under the assumption I get wales and England, I've allowed wales to go to Ethiopia but I won't give England unless I have to, or unless viva can compromise to give me a part of it, he owns the entirety of the isles, surely you could allow a friendly nation part of it?Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 21:05, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

That's stupid. Britain cannot simply house two player nations. Viva has greater claim, so I say he should have the whole island.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:06, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

You understand I effectively won this won for you, and though you may be friendly, I joined only to get my land back, so I can't really drop a claim to land taken from me, even though in all truthfulness, I should be able to claim most of the land for contributing the most to the fighting. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:07, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

^ Andrew, you can't say you "joined" the war, you STARTED it.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:09, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Fine.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 21:10, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I apologise for any misunderstandings I caused. I didn't mean to. :(  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:40, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

No problem Imp. :) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:48, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Alleged ASB
So, I was banned, and of course, when I was banned, Great Brython was taken from me. This is saddening, but I had been warned by Viva a few times prior.

Here is the problem - everyone views Brython as Wales. Brython isn't Wales, and Wales isn't Brython.


 * (Side note: In Brythonic, and thus in English, the "th" in Brython is a hard-sound, so it is pronounced almost identical to Briton or Britain.)

As is frequently pointed out, Wales owning the Isles is ASB, but Wales doesn't own the Isles - Brython does. I just wanted to get that out there.

Furthermore, the events leading up to Wales' independence and whatnot were not under my control, but under the mods control, and largely under influence from AP's Skottland and Scandinavia.

Division of the Spoils
So, the lands of Brython are now far-gone, much to my dismay. However, I still have hope.

I would like to see Wales and the rest of the Isles restored as Great Brython, and the lands of various nations returned to their rightful owners.

Take a moment to think this through from a non-biased point of view. In the year 1824, would any leader deny the Brythonic King his birthright as King of Great Brython? Maybe many people would strip his colonial empire (French and Indian War), but the reality is that very few wars have stripped an empire of its entire homeland.

Proposal
Thank you for your time,
 * 1) Great Brython is reestablished following the Ethiopian and German Wars.
 * 2) France will cede Normandy and Brittany to the rightful Brython Empire.
 * 3) The Netherlands and all of its vassals will be returned to the King of Great Brython.
 * 4) Morocco and the Welsh Royal Coast will be returned to Great Brython.
 * 5) Chile/Argentium and De Mor Tir will go to the Selk'nam, as an inheritance from him being a Brythonic Prince.
 * 6) New South Wales (NZ) will go to Great Brython.
 * 7) Caer Anial and Tulpung yr Aber will remain Ethiopian.

05:05, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Wales, Brython, ' who honestly cares? ' We beat square and fair (or is it fair and square?) and them's the truth of life.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:08, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair and square I'm pretty sure lol. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:55, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I am talking under the assumption of the losses of Germanica (inevitable, I'm afraid), and the loss of much of Ethiopia. Therefore, it is realistic for this to happen. I think the mods should make some event to this end. This will prevent future implausibilities in this already nutty region of the world (I mean, England falling in the first place was implausible).

The sheer existence of Wales as a country independent of London was implausible after five years. It only happened cause Wales had a player, tripling the ASBness. Ethiopia will just regain its losses.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:14, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I think that, in the event of a Coalition victory in the Final War of the German Unification, Wales should probably be granted independence, or at least a large degree of self-rule. By which I mean Wales should be. The rest of Brython would probably be a puppet state/s of one of the coalition members. That way the Welsh still have an independent/mostly independent homeland nation. Callumthered (talk) 06:49, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

The Greater Germanic Reich will permit the re-esablishment of Wales, and only Wales as an autonomous nation, the remainder of the Isles will be split amongst the coalition, with Britain ceded to Germany.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 07:25, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

It will be the same with the United Maharajya. We support the thoughts of our allies, the Greater Germanic Reich. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:25, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

The Imperium Africana says lol no. Besides, the Royal Family was killed. I planned on saying them, but Germany got Wales instead of me. Then what happens? Welsh leaders either dead, dying, or wasting away in a dungeon somewhere in Germany. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:53, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Then I'll establish a Welsh Republic. Yank 16:59, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Lol. Good luck with that. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:27, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

My only question is, why would i give up a french territory such as Normandy that has no ties with the Brythons. i mean, i get giving up britanny but normandy is just over expansion. Specially for a nation that was destroyed Sine dei gloriem (talk) 03:12, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Normandy... Normans, invaded Britain (Brython I assume) in 1066. So that must count for some sort of tie. Mafia (talk) 10:48, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, the claim to Normandy is that the King of England (Formerly Emperor of Great Brython) is the Duke of Normandy by historic claim, so there is that.

France also pointed their own Dukes of Normandy when confiscated Normandy from John I.thus, France has as much of a claim to Normandy as Brython.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:16, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

NPCs and Industry
Does an NPC nation advance through the ranks of industrialization, or does there need to be a player involved? Yank 00:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

I think they just roll with it. (ie, advancing)

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Rex
After he came back from his block, he took Persia as his new nation, but just today he dropped it and took Scandinavia, which already has a player. I feel like something should be done for breaking two rules simultaneously.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  01:31, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the Persian Empire previously had a player too before Rex took that. Anyway I think he should be banned for two days from the game and have all his posts as Persia and Scandinavia crossed out. After his ban, he can come back and take a nation that's not occupied by a player, and stick with that nation. -Kogasa  2013 September 15, 04:16 (CET)

So, should I ban him for two days and cross out the Persia and Scandinavian posts? Or is there any other suggestions? -Kogasa  2013 September 15, 17:53 (CET)

I think that's good enough, but I'm not a mod.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  16:14, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, so I was under the impression that after 1 week of unexplained and undeclared absence, the nations can be taken over. Warman555 had no issue with me taking Persia (I spoke with him on Chat, and he didn't bring it up), and he hasn't posted in a really long time, and Hailstormer hasn't been seen for almost a month (Since August 25, I think),

As far as changing my nation goes, I was away for 2 weeks as you all know, and in the meanwhile a lot of things had changed, so I took Persia as my first option, but noticing how Scandinavia wasn't actively in use, I changed to that nation.

As far as precedent goes, AP allowed me to switch nations from Cologne/Westphalia to Persia after I just joined, and since I only really posted for one turn, I think its ok.

Pretty much, I am/was just looking for a good nation to get started as. Thank You,  19:47, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * What allowed? AP told me in the moderator talk page that he had told you dozens of times to return to Cologne, but you didn't listen.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:10, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Neither Persia nor Scandinavia's players have posted in months, thus Rex can play as either. he just needs to choose. It seems to me that you are awfully biased against Rex. --Yank 19:52, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are exaggerating this.Hailstormer and Warman, in fact, have not posted for about three weeks.Still warrants inactivity, though.But we should do nothing about Persia, as Warman was never a player anyway.But something should be done with Scandinavia.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:02, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

In this case he should stick with Persia. There is a rule that unless your nation has been destroyed in a war or vassalised, then you may not switch nations.

Anyway I'm going to let this slide (no ban), but Rex should remain playing as Persia, since his nation isn't destroyed or anything of that sort. -Kogasa  2013 September 15, 22:33 (CET)

French League

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +12 (Six Leaders and Colonial empire)
 * Strength: France (L), Aquitaine (L), Occitania (L), Carthage (L), Leptis(L) Picardy (MV),Angouleme (MV),La Marche (L),Haute Bourgogne (MV), Basse Bourgogne (MV) Mauretania (MV), Numidia (MV), New Judea (MV), Muisca (MV),Venaissin (MV), Normandy (MV), Britanny (MV), Lorraine (MV), South Tyrol (MV): 46/22 = 2
 * Military Development: 166/26= 6.38 - 6
 * Economy: 12/37 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3,+3, +3 ,+7,+7,+3
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit Count: 2100
 * UTC Time: 1:40
 * 2100/4 x pi = 1649.33614
 * Nation Age: -5,+0,+5,+5,+5+5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10 (Everone gets this)
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Total: 84

Hellenic Union
Total: 83
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Hellenic Union (L) Cyrenaica (MV), Yugoslavia (L), Romania (L), Hungary (L), Levant (L), Nya Syria (MV), Maldives (MV), Sulwasi (M): 25 = 0
 * Military Development: 26/166= 0
 * Economy: 37/12 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 13
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10, +5, +5, +5, +5
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit Count: 567
 * UTC Time: 2:37
 * 567/42 x pi = 42.4115008
 * Nation Age: +0, +5, +0, +0, +0, +5
 * Population: 10
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
(81/133 - 0.5) x 2 = 0.218045113

France can claim 21,8% of Hellenic territory, depending of how long the war lasts.

Discussion
Fingers crossed lol. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:39, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Holy smokes.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  01:44, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

There got to be something wrong with the algo, but as i'm not a warmonger i'm not an expert on this.Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:46, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

BTW I had a change of government in 1815 So.... Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:49, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Please explain why this is happening Sine? Airlinesguy (talk) 01:50, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Also, I think I signed an alliance with you at some point :P Airlinesguy (talk) 01:51, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

I know, but I want venezuela to form a great colombian republic, and you fought against me previously alongside with Scraw so... Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:57, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

If you wanna talk to me i'm in the Chat. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:00, September 15, 2013 (UTC) PD. which should be the Cypriots industrial bonus? .

I dislike how France is very Caliphateish, lots and lots and lots of small states. Airlinesguy (talk) 05:41, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would consider that a remainder of feudalism.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:57, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * What Collie said, and Dynastic unions for the win, you should have done the same with byzantium and wouldn't lose enough land.

corrected your development scores and added chances.Sine, remember that until you had that revolution in 1815, your posts never mentioned nothing about military development, so you only has military development for after 1815.Ah, and since you didn't have a popular revolt after the new government was formed, you don't get the 1.5 bonus, since those are the conditions for the bonus to be given.Airlinesguy, you also missed some turns, and your score doesn't add up to 30.You also won't get any industrial bonus, as both of you are coloured orange in the industrialization map.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:23, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry about the military, but just want to clarify that the revolt its lead by the senate and the king is only a figure, and by the end of the war i was planning to made the Gaul republic in a similar way the french confederation but a prime minister in the nation. Pretty much is me stripping the last control of the king and giving it to the French Senate. hence the people since what've done with french league in the last 2 centuries Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:30, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

I've joined the war with basically everything but my main nation. Scandinator (talk) 09:32, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

The United Maharajya has allies on both sides, but will be supporting the Hellenic Union due to relations and the conditions of the sale which was conducted on Borneo. Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:33, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

I have to consider my priorities, so I think it world be prudent for Imperium Africana to support France at this junction. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:58, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

As much as Germany would like to aid her ally France, due to the current war, the Reich must spend time repairing infrastructure and updating the military. We will allow French forces access to Carthage, but that is it, we cannot actually be in the war.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 15:34, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

The Italian Union states and Leventine vassals are all leaders. This needs to be a coalition algorithm. Scandinator (talk) 06:56, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Why all those algorithms need to become needlessly complicated?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:09, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, and Cyprus, economic development is 22, not 12.Here's an usual post of the Hellenic union.

"The Hellenic Union continues to build the aforementioned railways, with a line from Athens to Corinth completed, with other lines close to completion. Cement continues to be spread around Anatolia and the Hellenic peninsula, with slow use in government buildings and other buildings of importance, as well as the autocrat's [sic] houses. Steel and glass are also used within buildings, specifically in large cities. On Cyprus and Crete, paper mills continue to be develop, [sic] as well as cloth factories, and much the same occurs on the colonies, as well as continual building of railway lines. The Hellenic economy is expanded and Nea Lefkosia is expanded by 12,000 sq km, and Nea Konstantinoupoli is expanded by 12,000 sq km."

Is there anything there resembling military development?I would understand if you redirected 10 points to infrastructure, even i made this mistake.But not military development.Now you're just inventing things.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:18, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, but this is a coalition algo. The Levantines and Italian vassals can easily negate any advantage through averaging their scores for the algo. I'll let Scan do that part if you don't believe me. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:51, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Somebody else should do this.i can't do an coalition algorythm.But, if we are going to do this, so France also can do the same.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:59, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * i would like not much intervention in this war, I mean, This war should only between me and cyprus, i don't mess with other players wars, you shouldn't do either.But if you do, please my military built up for my other leaders. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 17:03, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * It was kinda a clause of my buying the Cyproit colony on Borneo. Plus, Italia is currently fully in the war though its vassals. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:27, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Going to add my other leaders military build up which is continuous since 1810, you can check out. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:23, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Another thing the Civil war or revolt france had in 1815 was by the people and the senate, and both choosed to put a more friendly towards them ruler, a puppet king, so it should still fit within the revolt parameters and i should still get the 1.5 percent. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:41, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, for this to be counted a revolt, the revolt should be right after the government change, and not provoke the government change itself.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:49, September 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would say this is a tie, with both sides in close to the same score. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 17:11, September 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Btw if airlines agrees the tie, the war should be over in 1828, no point for anyone to continue it after all.Sine dei gloriem (talk) 17:14, September 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:26, September 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well there's nothing to gain out of continuing :P 110.33.181.70 21:45, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * ^That was me not logged in :P Airlinesguy (talk) 10:54, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless... now that Sine is bankrupt... can I continue the attack and seize more land? Airlinesguy (talk) 10:59, September 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not recommended. He can still fight and it only weakens both of you. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:01, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hence, Tie so... Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:11, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I just thought the bankruptcy would weaken him :P - Airlinesguy who cannot be bothered logging in

Apostolic Prime Bishop Election 1825
Candidates: Brother Siricius (Selk'nam), Enchi Kazuo (Tojiko), Brother Fassil Mekonen (Brython)

Candidate submission and voting will close at the start of 1826.

Votes 

Commandante (Selk'nam): Bishop Enchi Kazuo

Kogasa (Tojiko): Bishop Enchi Kazuo, Amaterasuist branch

Viva (Britain): Brother Fassil Mekonen

Rex (Scandinavia): Arch-Bishop Olaf Hendersson, Pietist Branch

Result: Bishop Enchi Kazuo of the Amaterasuists of Tojiko elected Prime Bishop of the Apostolic Church.

Scandinavia
I'm going to do the usual song and dance and switch to Scandinavia. It was part of how I convinced Rex to stay as Persia. I hope this time it's permanent. What stage is Scandinavia in Industry? Yank 20:45, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Green. I think that's Stage 2 or 3 right now.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:49, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Good. That means I start there, right? Yank 20:52, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Stage 3.Using Spanish reference points, Sweden and Norway are at Portugal's level (hit stage 4 in 1840), Denmark is at Aragon's level (hits stage 4 in 1830), while Iceland only can begin stage 1 in 1840.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:07, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Cities
Now having been studying Burgess Concentric Models in Urban Geography (which I think is the better side of geography), I wanted to through out a pretty unique question out. What would the Cities of the United Maharajya, China and the Imperium of Africa be like? All these three nations in OTL are developing and their cities follow the Burgess model for developing cities pretty closely. Here, however, all these nations can be counted as in the Developed world. So how will their cities look like? What they would in a developed country, or something else entirely? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:57, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * This would count for Mayan and Apache cities as well, correct? CourageousLife (talk) 22:01, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sure, why not. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:48, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

They would likely be over-crowded and underplanned with some exceptions. Urban sprawl would also occur. In essence they would resemble London in the Industrial Era with designs from their home nations. So tiled roofs with upturned corners for building in China, more dome shaped in India and Africa. Pavements with curbs, open markets, street-vendors and stalls. etc. Scandinator (talk) 17:44, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Currently, you mean, correct? :)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:08, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

This is a good question - and while we're on it I wold love some input on how I portray Ona Yagich and my other cities seeing as they don't exist OTL and the real life Selk'nam remained hunter gatherers until they were exterminated by genocide in the mid-1800s. I've gnereally just assumede that Ona Yagich looks like a decent-size pre-industrial European city although not anything on the scale of say London - Miyako Yagich same thing but more Asian influence. I've tried to paint K'onip as a bit more dystopian and overcrowded seeing as I have a pretty large population on OTL South Georgia which is pretty cold and inhospitable. Yagich Atticus on OTL Tristan de Cunha I'm portraying as a pretty well off maritime center that would mimic way a Greek Island port or something (by the 20th Century I want it to be like OTL Singapore). I think I'm justified in this as my main cities have been around since the late 1600s.

Commandante Lemming (talk) 18:38, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about you folks, but I imagine Berlin as a sprawling mass of choked industrialism. Living conditions are better than OTL London, but bad nontheless. However, the center of the city, where the heart of government is, is very densely populated with grander architecture. The close you get to the center, the better your life is.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:21, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * That is basically how developed cities work, lol. Although at this time, the Innder City should be right next to the the central government control buildings. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:35, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ah yes. Visit the glorious planned city of Addis Ababa. View its scenic ring roads, wide avenues, and clean public squares. Admire the ivory palaces and white-washed temples and churches from the great days of Emperor Dawit I, and the great imperial gardens which showcase plant-life from all corners of the Ethiopian Empire. Maybe one day you too will build a city as magnificent as Addis Ababa. Or, maybe you will be doomed to live in the squalid conditions of your over-industrialized cesspools. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:33, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Speak for yourself, Munchen has been transformed in the last 25 years from a dirty, grimy town, to a shining city that Germans can be proud of, plenty of monuments and towering structures, glistening white marble. Munich will not be lumped in with the filthy cities like that of London or Avalon.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk)

Venice is a fusion of efficiency and culture. The city is a fortress and a cultural wonder. High bridges flow over the canals and islands are highly organized with wide streets and canals. Florence however, is a choking industrial city. :P Scandinator (talk) 19:27, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

To the above three statements:

And now, coming back to the real (althistorical) world....

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 21:33, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

I noticed the jibe at Avalon and London. London, yes, is pretty nasty, but Avalon is a city much like Wasingtion, D.C., in that it lacks a major population and is based entirely around the government. Avalon is only a secondary city, with Cardiff really being the worst on the former Brythonic Isles. Just sticking up for our poor Welsh brethren :(  07:48, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I noticed that you are talking about your cities.On my case, Lisboa would be very similar to OTL Lisboa during this time.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:24, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I burnt Avalon to the ground. TO THE GROUND, I TELL YOU, TO THE GROUND!!!! :D

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:43, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Rex (Again)
Ok so im playing as Dimurats, and i started as them the same turn Rex started playing as Persia. Well to mkake a long story short he posted in his first turn that Persia enters into dynastic union with Dimurats, which isnt happening, even if Dimurats were NPC, as it takes more than a year to enter personal union/dynastic union. Can we do something about this please? Its just getting tiresome to have keep changing the sign ups back to my name as well as some in game stuff like him claiming he controls me. DS|The Rainbow Machete 21:30, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Crim, Imp, Kogasa and I all stated that he can't annex another nation in a single turn. That and the fact that he FUBARed the map when he uploaded an old one over the new one. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:28, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Russia
Total: 123*1.1 = 131+c
 * Location: 4+3+3+3+3+4/6=3.333~3
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Russia(L)/Minsk(L)/Ukraine(L)/FDC(L)/Astrakhan(L)/Suomi(L)/Riga(M)/Saami(SV)/UKA(S) = 30/(4) = 7.5~8
 * Military Development: 30+30+30/3 = 30
 * Economy: 30+30+30/3= 30
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -0
 * Industry = *1.1
 * Industry = *1.1

kazakh khanate
Total: 45+c
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (High ground)
 * Strength: Kazaks (L): 12=0
 * Military Development: (3)/90 = 0
 * Economy: (3)/90 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -0
 * Recent Wars: -0

Results
Super OP war stuffs mak russia super OP and worst case scenario with no chance points and if necessary, in all wars, if 9 chance for opp, Russia can get 128/ 173 = 47%, and gets russia 35% In a two year war...so khazakhstan becomes a vassal

Discussion
Is this right? because It seems to me that with current rules, player nations are super OP compared to NPCs, due to the fact that they can create many sub-leaders and gang up one one NPC one at a time... seems too Op to me...-Lx (leave me a message) 16:37, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, its wrong. For one, you have 30 to share between two sections of economy and military. Plus all those nations have 3 points each for infra, economy and military! :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:53, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

I thought they had a 0 for each because isn't it a ratio between mine and theirs...and mine is bigger so they get a 0 on the algo..., and I just decided not to put 3 down because i wanted to do it fast before editconflict happened... since they would get no points anyway...

Anyway...I have a phew leaders in the war, Russia, Minsk, ukraine, the FDC, Suur-Suomi, and Astrakhan are now equals...and I have them each work on one aspect of their existance constantly...all in PU with russia..,I thought that each nation got 30 points...the logic being so that large one-person powerful nations dont get run over by the non-existant league of san marinos...so now we can have many leaders with many inputs...I brought this up many times but people said that they would just watch so that nations did not get too powerful...Anyway...if this is false I would realy like clarification becasue I am pretty confused at this point and thing I am OP.-Lx (leave me a message) 17:27, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed it up. You should not have invaded three at once lolol. Scandinator (talk) 19:22, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

I also touched up on NPC score. They spend 5 yrs (of 15) on each category - Mil. Dev., Econ. Dev, and Infra. For Mil. Dev., if they did it for 5 years, each nation would have a score of 10 (the 2x multiplier). The same would be true for Econ. Dev. In Infra., however, the score would be 5+5+5.

That's not how NPC bonus works, how it worked for all people, and for all wars was, they work on Invra-mil-eco, then they get one point for each, then that score is devided by 2 and rounded up. So, for 15 years, they get 5 in each, 5/2 is 2.5, which rounds up to 3...you know what, I might just invade one and do the normal russia thing, conquer one and frighten the others,...into joining a federation-type thing like the caucasus...seems like the best approach, creating a Kazakh Federatoin...seems like a good idea...-Lx (leave me a message) 11:13, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Military, economy infrastructure, and nation age are all averaged in coalition wars. Silly algorithm editors.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:42, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Dakshin Maharajya
Total: 95
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Brunei (L), Mataram (L), Butung (L), Sulwasi (M): 15/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 16+16+16/5 = 10
 * Economy: 14+14+14/5 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5 + 5 + 5
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 7522
 * UTC Time: 22:31 = 12
 * (7521/12) * pi = 1968.9931956
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

New Oman
Total: 40
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: New Oman (L): 4/15= 0
 * Military Development: 5/48 = 0
 * Economy: 5/42 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -0

Result
((95/(95+40))*2) - 1 = 0.407407

The Dakshin Matarami can claim 40.7%. If the war lasts 3 years, the Dakshin Matarami can claim 33.92%, toppling the New Omani government.

Discussion
Again, they are not your average NPC.fixed the algorythm's score.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:45, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Where were you when I needed you man? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:54, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Well, maybe we can work out some sort of trade? And Collie, sorry man. Just that the former "major power" is now one of the most backward areas of the planet. Even the Lakota stand a chance industrialing faster. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:12, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Still, is not like this will stop you from toppling their government.and they have former Arabian infrastructure and gold.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:38, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, good point. They do have a lot of gold. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:14, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Leave
Hello everyone, I'm leaving for a band tour of the USA tomorrow, and I won't be back until the 1st (by my dodgy maths, that's 1841 in-game), so Andrew will be posting as the whole Suddeutsches Reich while I'm gone. Be nice! Callumthered (talk) 11:10, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Peace. Be careful with those groupies now. They're a fiesty bunch. Oh, and keep lots of epipens with you. You know, just in case... Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:51, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, what band? The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:41, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

By band I meant my school's brass and strings bands (sorry for the mix-up). Thanks for the advice Viva, the groupies were indeed "fiesty". Callumthered (talk) 05:21, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Weekend
I will be leaving for the weekend can someone post this for me?

Bayern- Statten of the German Empire-. Elections for high chancellor are finished with the isolationist Conservative Party leader, Owen Shlieling elected. Overseas, Bavarian Australis expands into the interior of the continent by 15,000 sq km. Bavarian-Australis begins petitioning the new government for statehood status next to Bayern. Borneo finishes the port upgrade. Now merchant ships the world over can fit comfortably. The Italia-Vienna line is announced and is set to meet the Italian line in the coming months. More advances are made technologically - mainly just small improvements on existing technology. Access to Kiev is granted through Bavaria to Italia. Russia is asked for a defense alliance. Bayern asks France if it may buy all or part of Carthage, in part to help France eliminate its debt. Bavaria's offers 16 million Reichsmarks, price negotiable. The military for the states of Bayern, Salzburg, Palatinate and Die Sweiss are expanded.

Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 16:54, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Viva
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's frustrated by Viva's recent actions. Viva's been expanding and expanding with no sign of stopping. As I said in the disscussion above, he's going to end up owning half of the planet by the end of the game at this rate. It's just getting ridiculous now. Yank 19:19, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

I've waged three offensive wars in the last one hundred years. I invaded Normandy 1789, Great Brython in 1810 (21 year gap), and Germany in 1830 (20 year gap). I've fought two defensive wars in the same period. One against Arabia (1720), and the other against China, Germany, and the Maya. So I'm not expanding rapidly, your just looking for a reason to complain. Never mind the fact that I'm the smallest major empire in the game, with three tiny colonies in North America and one in South America, and only have one major holding outside of Africa, no no. Please, continue to ignore the three massive Japanese colonies, the multiple massive Orissan dominions in Africa, South America and Southeast Asia, pay not attention to the countless Italian nations popping up across the globe. Please, continue to focus on my attempts to make some modest efforts to build an actual empire, which is nowhere near the same size as the other nations that have constantly attacked me throughout the game. Yes, because I'm clearly more powerful Italia, Orissa and China, the three nations more industrialized and populous than Ethiopia, with colonies bigger than my nation. Please, continue to whine about me invading another nation and coming up with reasons why the "ridicously powerful nation" cannot invade the remnants of Germany. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:33, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'm certain Viva's alienated half of the players with his vindictive ASB bullshit. Yank 19:34, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Explain exactly what is ASB then Yank. You make the claim by give no examples. You must have many if you can confidently say that. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:39, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Holy SHIT, Viva! How about invading an advanced country halfway around the effing world?

Hmm. I don't know. Wouldn't be the first or last that time has happened in the game. Germany, China, Italia and the Maya did it. So why not the other way around? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:52, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Because neither Germany nor China nor Italia attacked an nation that was as advanced as them.

The Maya is ASB, I'll throw you that, but I wasn't here to notice it.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 19:55, September 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I fought my way to where I am right now, just like everyone else, no if, ands, or ASB's about it. In the case that it was ASB, not one person cared. I'm not the one waging all of these wars anyway. CourageousLife (talk) 20:04, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw should really be left alone, Scraw and I had a gentlemens agreement for over a hundred years that if either one of us lost to the other, we'd go to our fall back nations, it was even mod backed. There is no logical reason for you to attack a nation on the others ice of the world that is just recovering from losing everything it held previously. Viva, I can't tell you not to attack him, I'm just saying it is a mite bit unfair to Scraw, I only warred with him because I believed in a unified Germany, and it was either me or him, but this is too much.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 20:00, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

See, you can be ASB if A) you can spell and B) You aren't a douche about it.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 20:05, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Allow me to explain my position and why I'm invading.

Scraw and I also had a gentlemen's agreement. I would help him rebuild his empire, and we'd be allies. I helped him and as soon as I was weak, not more than two days after I helped him, he and Crim invaded my nation. What is more is the fact that he and Crim had been planning the invasion the same time he and I were planning to reclaim parts of his nation. He admitted to the fact that he was an opprotunist, and was proud of attacking me. There was no reason for any nation except for Von to invade me, or anyone else, yet they routinely did so. I'm invading Neu Berlin because it is a major center, as we all well know, its the core territory of OTL America. There is nothing you can say that will convince anyone that it is a useless territory. It was unfair when my ally betrayed me, and I'd been told numerous times that Scraw cannot be trusted by multiple players. I lost a lot in 1720, and no one complained about that, and I'm already in North America, and had a large colony bordering Neu Berlin. I have a lot at stake in America and have every reason to want it. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:14, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You even had examples of how you couldn't trust him.remember when Scraw attacked Scandinavia, that was allied with him, for no apparent reason but to gain territory and then disrespected the attempt made by AP to divide his own lands, as he was leaving, presumably to maximize his, and the rest of his coalition's gains?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:22, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I remember, but I didn't believe he'd be so callous as to do so again when someone was actively trying to help him out of sympathy, especially when that person had been in the same position numerous times, so far as to even lose his nation at one point. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:31, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

You are quite right,I even warned you of his nature, but need I remind you, that you are fast on your way to becoming an opportunist, you must be better than the other, despite me and scraws icy relationship recently with the germanies, both of us honoured our end. You don't have to go on a massive retribution war, he's been almost utterly defeated, your just throwing salt into the wound.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk)

I have nothing. I got nothing out of the war I carried to victory. Everyone claimed my stuff, and I only got one territory while everyone else got huge chunks of land. I'm not an opprotunist and I don't plan on being one. Others make the claim I'm a major power, but when I launch one war of my own, I'm responsible for waging numerous conflicts. When I expand in the very same manner as the other nations, I'm being implausible while no attention is given to the nations building colonies at the polar opposites of their locations. Why must I live up to an entirely seperate standard why you and the others play the game the way you like? Why must I have to fight for everything I need just to have the "privilege" of being a major nation? I've not been able to enjoy this game since it started because I had the likes of Crimsom, AP, Yank, Scraw, and Von coming up with non-existant rules and standards for reasons that make no sense. Crim and Scraw made it clear that Borona wasn't a target in the last war, and thus I didn't get +10 as a motive for it. They claimed it in the end. There were half a million Ethiopians in Britain, but I didn't get +7 as a motive, while Scraw got +7 just for being in the same cultural group instead of blood. So you must understand my point as to why I'm not entirely keen on letting Scraw survive. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:29, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You might have a point on this.while in the last few years, you have been well, overexpanding (ex: the Mali thing, Dahomey), Scraw did similar things before you and nobody called him out on that.Not even me.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:45, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding overexpansion, I annexed one nation before that. And if you could, could you please define overexpasion so this way I know what it means for future reference. Its really of major importance to me. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:42, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the problem.the definition for overexpansion is excessive expansion in a short period of time.Which is what you tried to do with Dahomey and Mali.And Reximus tried in Oman.And the Caliphate also did.You sure remember that.As you can see, is a very vague definition.As such, overexpansion can mean whatever you think it is, depending from your standards.I have my own standards for overexpansion, and you might have a different one.The other problem with your recent attempts that i just mentioned, is that they also were implausible.Mali, you know why.And Dahomey, they are fiercely independent.check the events surrounding the nation's formation.You, and any other nation, would need a lot of effort to pull that off, but you took only four years of your time to claim you had done it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 13:59, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

I won't argue with you, I have no real bone, we've never had scraps as a nation, our people get along fine. I was just cautioning you. I will let you and the mods deal with it, in part because I don't want to throw fuel to the fire, and in part because I'm not a mod, and thus my personal anecdote doesn't amount to much.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk)

Ok folks. Me and Viva have reached a decision to do a Nation Swap. He will control Orissa for 10 years, while I control Ethiopia. We would like to see how I would react on the same circumstances he has been put under and visa versa (although I don't think I am in trouble currently). :P Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:50, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, since your nation change is between just the two of you, and isn't permanent, this might be allowed.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:02, September 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Crim and Yank were fine with it. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:42, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

AID, ANYONE?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:53, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Everyone else is suffering from war penalties. I have plenty of territories I can afford to lose, Crimson and Couragous do not. You will survive, albeit your be Georgian instead of America. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:57, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Because I completely give a shit.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:02, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, so let me get this straight.

Scraw is a cold-blooded prick.

But Viva is a cold-blooded, ASB  prick.

And both of them can spell.

So apparently, Scraw is just an excellent diplomat..

And Viva is just an excellent prick.

And Scraw, mind your FUCKING language. =)

Lol sorry bout the language, but when I'm pissed, I'm pipssed.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:11, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, see, Scraw, that was a joke, notice the word 'fucking' in my post?

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:12, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Does it matter what kind of prick I am? I won, so i really don't care anymore. As for ASBness Guns, there have been many nations invading other advanced nations far from their lands and winning, as any history book will tell you.. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:42, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

People like you bring down otherwise enjoyable map games. I am sooooo itching for an excuse to not only punt your ass out her, but prevent you from even joining PMIII to begin with. People like you don't belong in map games Viva, as map games require to at least try to play well with others. Your atitude is essentially turning everyone against you, and you are too selfish to care. You are a terrible person, and not a soul would bat an eyelash if you would leave. The fact that you play fast and loose with the rules with absolutely no backlash astounds and disgusts me. Yank 02:05, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Viva, it does. I think it's safe to say that most people here enjoy each other. I certainly enjoy most of the people who play this game because they're level-headed and, at the end of the day, we're just having fun, no matter what the situation in this map game. Your attitude problem and your superiority complex creates drama that isn't fun for any of us. Knock it off. And Yank, you're a mod for christsakes. Act like it. Mods are supposed to show a level of maturity. Telling people that they're horrible people makes other mods look bad and makes Viva's attitude problem worse. The both of you need to fall in line. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:13, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

You're right, Crim. I'm sorry that I acted so shamefully. It's just that Viva's condescending attitude makes my blood boil. He still needs some sort of punishment for his behavior. Yank 02:32, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

I have a superiority complex? Odd. I always thought that you, Scraw, Yank, Von, and AP had the biggest egos on the wiki. I never put myself before anyone else, nor made any attempts to prove myself better. I always kept a low profile, and only when something foolish happened, and when it involved me specifically, I did what I needed to make it clear my point was correct or clarify my position. I never was never snobish, you and your goons just said so to prevent critism of your own side. Scraw is not level-headed, which everyone has made abundantly clear. I was cheated out of what I earned numerous times. So why do you expect me to be quiet instead of complain about it the same you and the mods do? I did what I was suppose to and told the mods, but you did nothing, so i had to take it to the others. I never cause trouble unless it finds me, often when I'm invaded and I try to remedy the issue. But nowhere in this game have I been the source of any problems.

So neither you, nor Scraw, nor Von, nor Yank of all people can claim I've done anything. Look at my record here. I never done anything to give the impression I believe I'm better than anyone else. You have. I've never been the warmongering in this game. You have. I've never been the immature one here. You have. You made the insults, you made the claims of ASB, you made the most arguments, and you made the most noise. You did all of that. The only time I started an argument was when Von invaded my nations (as did Scraw, Dean, Rex, and Cookie), and when I sought to colonize lands outside of Africa. So you cannot justifibly seat at your keyboard, look at the past, and type the lies that you type. I made it clear I don't like drama. You have made it clear you don't like someone who stands up to you. That's the only reason you claim I start anything. Yank, you are a terrible mod, and the most condescending person, with the exception of Scraw, in the game. Its a fact. Look in a mirror and get over it.

When I attempt to break out of the OTL mold you so vigorously and unofficially support, you whine about it. I was the first nation outside of Europe to attack a European nation. Nothing wrong with that, but since it wasn't European and different, that was an issue. When I tried to colonize land outside of Africa, you complained about it while the other non-colonial powers (Cyprus for one) were building huge empires in locations that made no since (while I had to have a reason for colonizing land). Oddly enough, China could colonize worthless ol' Alaska, but Ethiopia needed 101 reasons as to why. Heck, Japan is over there, but there is nothing of worth there. Simply put, when I've been treated unfairly, you expect me to say nothing? When I tried to bring the matter to your attention polietly, I'm being hostile. When you do it, you make the argument that your mature and lucid, while at the same time swearing, insulting, and reprimanding others. You are no different. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:45, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

I laugh much. At least Imp can back his stuff up with logic and reason.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:04, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Viva, you know that your rant contains less justification and less "you guys suck". That is no way to win an argument. And while I may have difficulties controlling my temper, at least I admit it. You just hide behind "I'm right, you're wrong". Yank 04:11, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

LOL. Its you, Crimson, Guns and Scraw, versus me. 90% of your arguements have been won because you have your friends to back you up even though you are wrong sometimes. Its just me alone trying to convince others of my point. If you weren't a mod and had no support, you'd lose most of your arguements. Its just a fact. You let your past experiences in one other map game color your view of my play style. You complain and threaten first, but refuse to listen or comprehend later. Its just insult, threaten, and ignore to you. I make it clear over, and over, and over again that I don't want to fight, and I say that often. However, when I say anything, you take it as a swipe at yourselves. You swear, threaten and insult. I don't, or at least I try not too.

Now here's the deal. I can easily destroy Neu Berlin, and have no qualms of doing so. This is more than simply because Scraw is a turncoat, and half the players want to destroy him. This is because America is a major source of power that I'd like to have. Its also a threat to my colonies the same why mine were a threat to Crimson's in Alaska. However, being the better person, I am willing to drop the conflict in exchange for one simple thing. Newfoundland or Haiti. That's all I want. After that, we can forget the whole thing like mature adults. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:15, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

I don't own Hispaniola, you have no colonies next to me (as all those bordering mine and in Greenland were seized into Neu Berlin in our last war and as Neu Berlin was handed to me by Andrew and Imp, ergo they are my lands) and calling yourself "the better person" is displaying more arrogance then I could ever put into one phrase, not including this one. And I don't own Haiti and Newfoundland is a land of nothing. As for the reason nations like Japan, China, and Manchuria were able to colonize said lands is based off of two of three Gs: God, Gold, and Glory. God and Glory being the main focus. You would only get Glory by conquering anything from Neu Berlin, as you cannot simply make all these pseudoCatholics into Orthodox Christians, nor does Neu Berlin have gold or valuable resources. Neu Berlin is only a great trading location, and you gain nothing by conquering it, as the only nations you could trade with through there are more easily accessible to you in other places. America is a major source of power in OTL because it got lucky. The chances that a white semi Catholic nation can be successfully dominated and utilized by a black nation half a world and round a continent away are extremely miniscule. I'm not a turncoat, only you want to destroy me because you hold grudges. South Germany and Orissa got what they wanted and they no longer give one about me. You only have no support because you have put yourself in the wrong while simultaneously justifying us.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:22, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

I own the colony just north of you which I got from Normandy. I got all of the colonies you claimed back as part of the settlement with Andrew, Cal, and Imp. So, ergo, they are "my" lands now. If we all look at your track record, you have always shown an air of arrogance and snobiness since I got here. I have made it clear in the past many times, and which you have refuted many times, is that I claim lands for the same reason as the other nations. Alaska had gold and whale oil, but that was considered a foolish reason to want "barren" Alaska. You and Crimson were the ones that made that statement. Ethiopia has freedom of religion, which I stated many times in the past, proving my point that none of you read or simply ignore my comments, also proving that you do not listen. The same of a black semi-Orthodox nation being controlled by a white nation half way around the would would also be impossible in this setting. Of course, you were the one who stated that racism wasn't an issue in this game, once again contridicting yourself. As for America, as any history book, teacher, parent, or common sense will tell you, America became powerful because it had a huge piece of land full of untouched resources that allowed it to expand its industry and economy overnight. This now proves that you do not do any research, as you would have known that if you did. Also, I made it clear that I have many reasons for invading you, your simply choosing to focus on one of the most flame-baitish of them. South Germany and Orissa got what they wanted, but Ethiopia did not. So I have an in-game and out of game reason to invade you, which I made clear in my post. Also, speaking of grudges, your main desire for attacking Hailstormer and Scandinavia, as you told me and Dean in chat, was because the mods took it from you to weaken you and you thought it wasn't fair. Crimson wanted to attack me because he thought I was going to attack him. So everyone has a grudge that guides their military aims, so you are no different. You have nullified your own arguement. Thank you. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:36, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

But with Scan's mod event the casi belli (the cause of the war) of British "vengance" is utterly gone. Making the Neu Berlin War utterly meaningless. Yank 04:42, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

^This. And the fact that I don't own most of the "huge piece of land full of untouched resources" and the fact that the gold in Alaska wouldn't have been available in 1830 something. And not getting what you wanted is not a reason for going into a second war. The wars of the 18th century demonstrate this point. My main motive for planning to attack Scandinavia was a perfectly reasonable one. I invaded once, conquered. Then I lost it back to some random nation that wasn't even industrialized and outpopulated by said territories 1:2.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:49, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Dear goodness man. The territory you control had numerous resources available to the Americans at the time, and was and still is the center of American industry. And it is a good reason, as it was the same reason used throughout OTL history. So that isn't a good arguement. Either way it goes, I come out of this stronger really. I still have 1.5 million Ethiopians in Britain, so unless Scan is smart about handling them properly, I can always go back in the future when I'm stronger. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:53, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

By which point they'll be severely reduced in population proportion as Ethiopians would begin to leave the country and stop coming it, while Italians come in and Brits begin to boom.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:57, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, they wouldn't leave. Not after they fought over and suffered to keep that land. They got married to the locals, and built homes and businesses there. They fought for their Emperor and their homeland, and they still see it as part of the Empire. Its their home now. The Ethiopians will stay, and unless you have a really good reason to force them out. So I doubt they'd leave. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:03, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

You do realize that that's the exact opposite of the public mentality of the 1800s? Given the ATL circumstances, nationalism would only be slightly stronger and they'd more than likely go back to their motherland rather than live in a land where the existing government (white British government) would hate them for conquering them.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:05, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Your right. I'll move them then. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:10, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Metagaming...you've already lost control...

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:12, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, you were metagaming as well then. You lost control of Germany and Mysore, yet somehow conventiantly got those people into Neu Berlin and "screwed over the invaders". Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:21, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

I did that the year before the war ended. Any fool would have recognized that the empire was falling and would have fled to the last surviving bastion.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:23, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Well as you stated yourself, any fool would flee a nation with a hostile government for the motherland. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:29, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

But you don't have control of those lands or people anymore. If you had talked about this immigration and fleeing before the mod event, it would've made sense, but after it is just metagaming, because you don't have control over them after the event.

Oh well, then the Ethiopians will just trickle back into Ethiopia proper over the years then. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:39, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

First you steal their country from under them, then you do you best to destroy every bit of civilization when you go. Why do you have a fascination with ruining the Brits? Do you seriously believe that it's plausible for you to steal everything not nailed down and destroy everything that is? For one thing these are disorganized refugees. The first and only thing on their minds should be "get the hell out" not "pillage and burn". Yank 13:29, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

This actually proves another point. Your dogged desire to believe you know what my motives are. I invaded Britain and built it up after the war, and made it clear why I wanted it. Scraw stole Mysore from the Indians, Scan stole the Andes from the Inca, Cal stole Germany from the Germans, Rex stole Britain from the British, and so on and so on. So this too proves your delibarate attempts to ignore other instances of conquering nations, and then focusing on one player's actions while pretending the others do not exist. Your statement about the refugees also states your ignorance. I mean, seriously. That is the most uninformed thing I've heard from you yet. In every instance of civil disorder, war, or disaster, there has always been a major instance of looting. In New Orleans, there were people looting stores, even as there was a freakin' hurricane headed towards them, and after Katrina hit, they were more concerned with stealing TVs and DVD players than getting to safety. In World War II, people were pillaging stores as the Germans were retreating, and there was widespread lack of order. During the invasion of Iraq, the Iraqi people were stealing items as they were fleeing into other nations, the looting of the museums in Baghdad serving one notable example. During major blackouts or police strikes, there are also instances of looting and destruction. Even during "peaceful" protests anywhere in the world, there is looting. There was a video of a man in Britain in 2011 who was riding past a crowd of protesters in London, and was hit in the head. The protesters helped him up, but they went through his backpack at the same time and stole his laptop. Practically every nation in Africa undergoing civil war has seen widespread looting and entire cities sacked as they move out and toward refugee camps. So stating what their motives would be makes not valid or logical sense, as even in every movie detailing civil disarray, people have been shown looting and killing even when facing imminent death. Movies serve as a good example as directors don't usually create social events such as looting if it wasn't already common. When they smell opprotunity, they will strike. Its a fact. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:06, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

And plus, when Viva declared war on Great Brython, Viva wasn't even supposed to declare war on them.originally he wanted to declare war on that nation that Dean formed out of Russia's colonies.you can see that on the 1810 post.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:15, September 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I did? I thought I said that was a mistake and Scraw, Dean and I planned to take out Great Brython? I was planning to invade Dean's old nation since no one claimed it, but I remembered that Great Brython was the target, and apologized to Lx. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:23, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * I got the wrong impression from what remained from your original post, then.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:33, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

GUYS ENOUGH! I have had enough text walls for PMII already. Now lets get this issue with Neu Berlin sorted out. and Viva I thought you agreed to let the nation swap happen in 1831? Wasn't that the plan? :/ Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:13, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah Imp, its all your's. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:23, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

OK. Imp, I'm open to retconning the war, as it will only hinder you as Ethiopia in the future since we'll both have war penalties. Focus on something like Ethiopia.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  16:58, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

The war has already been retconned. This do not happen. I was not here. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:15, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

OK then,

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:26, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

PMIII Changes

 * 1) The start will be in 1400. I advise no-one to take the Golden Horde or the Empire of Timur the Lame. They will all be broken-up to smaller states as the Golden Horde is too disunified and the Timur Empire, too reliant on Timur himself for stability.
 * 2) In the light of national unity being ignored in PMII. It will be integrated with expansion.
 * 3) There will also be special algorithm modifiers to work for. Examples include the unifications of France, Iberia, Italy, UK, Germany, Scandinavia, Russia, India, etc. With each of those worth about 1-5 points while you hold it. And the control of key trade routes and points, like the Oresund, Gibraltar, Malacca, Aden, Venice, Bombay, Hangshou. etc. With each trade area worth an extra 1 or 2 points.
 * 4) The industrialization chart will be reworked and any nation that attempts to get the points ahead of time or without an appropriate reason will be heavily penalized.
 * 5) The colonial system will be reworked based on distance, security, and naval and economic strength.
 * 6) Technology will be allowed to advance past OTL but will be heavily monitored. The Industrial Era will start in 1700 like PMII but depending on which nation's get it sooner, then the process can be accelerated and we might need Mars and Moon maps.
 * 7) Tribal nations will start as that. One tribe, no larger than 4 px in areas with good land and about 100 in desert and badlands. Expansion from that will be at either 1% of current size or 1px, which ever is bigger. (Which will also be the rate of land expansion for all countries in their home continent.) You can convince other tribes to join you which would take several years. Thanks to this rule, nations like the Koori Union will be unable to form and expansion will be based on your current size and not the one size fits all policy that PMII has. I believe it effectively shows the challenges that tribes face in attempting to modernize and catch up from hunter-gatherer societies to a centralized or feudalized kingdom and nation.
 * 8) Terrain will be implemented on the map for colonial expansion.
 * 9) Start time will be changed back to 00:00 UTC to prevent confusion.

Discussion
All these points seem pretty good. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:56, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

I still prefer 1350.We should do a votation among the mods for that, as there are still some mods (Yank) who haven't expressed if they prefer 1350 and 1400.Scan is fine with either of them, and Kogasa and Crim prefer 1400.for me, 1350 is a more interesting scenario, and prevents us from dealing with Dean as the Timurids, or something like that.The rest sound like good ideas.But i think that if we implement terrain on the actual map, mapmaking will be much more difficult.terrain modifiers are important, alright, but there must be another way of implementing those without complicating the mapmaking process.And i think that technology advance should not be too far from OTL, otherwise PMIII will eventually fall into the ASB category, and this means that the game is a failure, no matter how long it lasts.I remember Imperial Europe II.that's the best example of that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:49, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

I would like too it too start in 1350 and if i'm allowed to say, for national unity you should give some sort of bonus, for a period longer that 15 years. that or add a score per the times a nation is bigger in size than the nation they are fighting. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:42, September 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I still think it should be 1400. 1350 isn't really beginning of anything new. The game is meant to start right after the end of the black death, and I think 1350 will lose that. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:03, September 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I concur with Imp, 1350 is a mess, I personally feel 1400 serves better.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 17:21, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:08, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

I actually agree with firmer tribal rules, but I have to say this suggestion is a bit restrictive for those of us that play that game. I really don't think the goal should be to PREVENT something like the Koori Union from forming but rather to force it to take time and Normal steps toward civilization. For instance, if Hail had started building hte Koori in 1400 with the goal of making them a standalone civilization by 1700, I think that should be achievable. A lot of us play with the express goal of forcing a major flip in the progress of history - that shouldn't be impossible, it should just take a lot of time and patience. As an addendum, not all "tribes" are created equal. The group I plan on playing in PM3 is significantly more advanced than the Selk'nam when I started and could eaily be made more powerful with just a few tweaks to the Progress of neighboring China and Manchuria. If the goal is to force the game to flow along the OTL timeline, what's the point? Commandante Lemming (talk) 19:31, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

And is nobody going to comment on my other suggestions, or: if we implement terrain on the actual map, mapmaking will be much more difficult.terrain modifiers are important, alright, but there must be another way of implementing those without complicating the mapmaking process.And i think that technology advance should not be too far from OTL, otherwise PMIII will eventually fall into the ASB category, and this means that the game is a failure, no matter how long it lasts.I remember Imperial Europe II.that's the best example of that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:19, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

I do think limits on tech are a good idea - some advancement ok but not sure how moon colonies would look - there are space-themed games for that. I don't do mapmaking so the use of terrain is up to y'all. Commandante Lemming (talk) 20:32, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm against terrain, but we should have more rivers. Such as the Nile or the Mississippi.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  20:29, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, the river exists, although actually showing them on the map would be very useful, As long as they are not used implausibly.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:47, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

I would like to suggest a relatively fundamental change to the forthcoming installment. The proposal is so that even though you may fail to post for a day or two, your nations' colonial growth and their economic/militaristic development will not simply stop.

This feature is, in and of itself, implausible. We must strive to make nations without players just as formidable as nations with players. I will also suggest more mod events. Also, we should get rid of infrastructure as a point on the algorithims, since it is rarely ever used. Thanks for listening, Sept. 28, 2013


 * No. Do you realize that if it was like that, inactivity would be non-existent (because if you can just not post, there is no way for inactivity to exist), and nobody would have any motivation to post regularly, just for starters?.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:45, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

Question about PMII
Hey Guys, today I rejoined PMII as a recently liberated Normandy and I was wondering if that's against the rules, because techincally i was still  signed up as the East African Fed., but I haven't played in a month before that so the country should've gone into unrest way before that, like only after 5 days.

Thanks!

Cookiedamage (talk) 21:32, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

May i say, if you return to a french league, i have no real problem, but watch your back from britanny, and by the way, i was thinking on giving Normandy back to you after the war, if i gained anything. good luck. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:51, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Apostolic Prime Bishop Election of 1836
Voting and candidate submission will remain open until the beginning of 1837

Member Nations: Apache, Selk'nam, Tojiko, Successor States of Great Brython (long since lost track)

Candidates: Father Kusagra (Apache), Brother Paul (Selk'nam)

Votes

Selk'nam (Commandante): Father Kusagra

Apache (Grantzu): Father Kusagra

Tojiko (Kogasa): Father Kusagra

Britain (Scan): Father Kusagra

Random PM3 Question
Has anyone given thought to formalizing the process of espoinage in the game? Interested only in that it seems odd that we can all just round up foreign agents in our country and kill them if we want. not actually thinking of applications just wondering if there's a way to formalize things like aid to rebel movements or attmpts to undermine governments.

it isn't something that can be wasily tracked, its very hard to actually get what your proposing to work, too many variables. It's a sound idea, but not one that can be adequately solved.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 03:49, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Good point but I would think maybe use a variant of the vassalization rules and charge sabotage as either one turn or half a turn - and maybe charge counter-intelligence the same way. Commandante Lemming (talk) 16:42, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Persian-Orissan Alliance
Total: 82
 * Location: 4 (Persia and Mahajayra)
 * Tactical Advantage: 6 (Larger Empire and Attacker)
 * Strength: Persia (L), United Mahajayra (L), Baghdad (S), Kuwait (SV), Kurdistan (SV), Khafji (SV), Aden (SV), Hadramaut (SV), Sanaa (SV), Socotora (SV), Nepal (SV), Bhutan (SV), Assam (SV) = 20/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 24/12 = 2
 * Economy: 24/12 = 2
 * Infrastructure:0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 7+7 = 14
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit Count: 1731
 * UTC Time: 23:47
 * 1731/168 x pi = 32.3696242
 * Nation Age: (5+5)/2 = 5
 * Population: 29 [15 million (Persia) + 320 million (Mahajayra) + 10 million (Baghdad) = 345 million]
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Asya
Total:  32
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: United Sultanates of Asya (L) = 4/20 = 0
 * Military Development: 14 = 0
 * Economy: 12 = 0
 * Infrastructure:0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 8 [10 million (Asya)]
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
The Alliance can gain up to 52.577% of the Asyan lands.
 * ((y/(z+y))*2)-1
 * ((74/(23+74))*2)-1
 * 0.52577
 * One Year - 26.288%
 * Two Years - 39.432%

Discussion
Congrats to Imp and myself! Go us! 23:27, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa is a part of this war. It just hasn't posted yet. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:28, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Go Rex! Put Dean out of our misery! Yank 01:18, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

But you know the drill.he always ends up coming back, no matter how much nations he runs through.It was three or four just in this game.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:27, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

P.S.: you forgot the chance.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:27, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Collie, you are right. I just always have a hard time doing that (and I don't know how to do it for a coalition war!) so, if you'd like to do that, or maybe just do a RNG, I really do not care. Sep. 28, 2013

Sorry I didn't post. I've been busy lately. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:19, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

Dammit Imp, what about Caesar 2.0?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  19:25, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think Viva got confused. But did you declare war in 1837? [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:31, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I thought you folks were starting...
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  19:32, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure you said you were starting it, considering it was your plan. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:38, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

This is the official plans for the divison of Asya.

I just came across evidence that Dean had Almaty as his vassal. That nation will go to Orissa, and the nation to the north if the 3 Orissan states will go to Persia. Thanks for understanding!

really guys? DS|The Rainbow Machete 15:15, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

also i know it wont change the results, but why is there motive 7? Im not being discriminitive gaisnt there religions at all. DS|The Rainbow Machete 16:05, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Dean is right.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  20:38, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Eastern-Antillian Coalition

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +6 (Rajputanan colonies)
 * Strength: Neu Berlin (L), Georgia (L), Rajputana (L), China (L), Korea (L), Manchuria (L) = 24/20 = 1
 * Military Development: +29/30 = +0
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +7 +3 +5 +3 +3 +3 = +21
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -0
 * Total: 60 + chance
 * Total: 60 + chance

Gaul Republic

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Gaul Republic (L), Carthage (L), Neu Judea (LV), Muisca (LV), Great Lorraine (LV), Leptis(LV), Numidia (LV),Zululand (MV), Basotho(MV), Mauretania (MV)= 20/24 = 0
 * Military Development: 30/30 = +1
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +5, +5, +5, +5, +5, +5, +5 = +35
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -22
 * Total: 30
 * Total: 30

Neu Berlin

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +6 (Rajputanan colonies)
 * Strength: Neu Berlin (L), Georgia (L), Rajputana (L) = 12/20 = 0
 * Military Development: +30/30 = +1
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +5 +3 +3 = +11
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +19
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -0
 * Total: 44 + chance
 * Total: 44 + chance

Gaul Republic

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Gaul Republic (L), Carthage (L), Neu Judea (L), Muisca (L), Great Lorraine (L), Leptis(L), Numidia (L),Zululand (MV), Basotho(MV), Mauretania (MV)Venaissin (L)= 46/12 = 4
 * Military Development: 240/30 = +8
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +10, +5, +5, +5, +5, +5, +5 = +45
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -15
 * Total: 65 + chance
 * Total: 65 + chance

Neu Berlin
Total: 63
 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +6 (Rajputanan colonies)
 * Strength: Neu Berlin (LW), Georgia (LW), Rajputana (L), China (LW), Manchuria (LVW), Laos (MVW), Badakhstan (MVW), Zunghar (MVW), Vietnam (MVW), Tibet (MVW), Hellenic Union (L), Cyrenaica (LV) = 27/31 = 0
 * Military Development: 10+30+0+26+0+0+0 = 66/7 = 9,4 = 9/27 = 0
 * Economy: +22/7 = 3
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -11
 * Motive: +3+3+3+3+3+3+3= +21
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit Count: 1842
 * UTC Time: 23:19
 * 1843/54 x pi = 107.163216
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Gaul Republic

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Gaul Republic (L), Carthage (LV), New Judea (LV), Muisca (LV), Great Lorraine (LV), Leptis(LV), Numidia (LV),Zululand (MV), Basotho(MV), Mauretania (MV), Venaissin (LV)= 31/27 = 1
 * Military Development: 216/8 = 27 = 27/9 = 3
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +10, +5, +5, +10, +5, +5, +5 = +50
 * Chance: 4
 * Edit Count: 2149
 * UTC Time: 20:11
 * 2149/2 x pi = 3375.64131
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -15
 * Total: 61

Results
63/124 - 0.5 x 2 = 0.0322580646

The coalition has right to 1,61% of French territory.

France has 70186 pixels, meaning that the coalition can claim 1129 pixels from France.

Duration of the war is irrelevant, given that it has dragged on for almost 15 years now.

Discussion
Mwhaahahahahahahahhaa. Imp, celebrate with me. Anyone who wants to join our side is welcome.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."   21:50, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

I am just wondering why I never got a fall back... I would've like to play around with De Mor Tir...

Added the obviously implicit vassal leadership in the moment of crisis Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:18, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

My bad on the nation age Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:21, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

If that's not cheating, I don't know what is. Location is averaged as well, you don't control Mauritania, and 6*-5 = -30. Also, Venassin is a city. It doesn't have a military.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  22:30, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

I made a long time ago a duchy called mauritania from carthage, ironically like the venaissin which is not just a city, didn't got added to the map. never. and to be fair  not its not the time to fight with collie or anyone for the maps. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:33, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * You also never gave me any clue to where it is.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:30, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

If you wanted the Pope to have a more active presence in this war, then you should have let them keep Provence. You've essentially reduced them to the OTL Vatican. And everyone knows that ceremonial guards aren't the same as soldiers. Yank 22:36, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Not really i added a previous map where they had more land, but the last two maps have showned only the city of avignon, which is wrong. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:40, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyway, Avignon, new judea, and, judging what your last post here says, Mauritania, are too small to lead a war or give any significant military help.what are they going to send? six soldiers each?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:30, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

they are not what they where but they are still capable of giving some movement  and dude, you may be invading just gaul, but with Him on your side you are invading everyone on the french influence sphere Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:43, September 29, 2013 (UTC).

No. No, I'm not. My military has not dropped a single foot anywhere except Baie d'Eric and France proper.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  22:47, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

What i mean, is that with an Indian nation on your side, as far as it concern to me, and my nations you are trying to destroy me, and that's what you are. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:49, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

That's not how the rules work. It's not your opinion, it's based on fact.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  22:51, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

and in fact you are Trying to destroy my nation aren't you. and even so, you are fighting the Gaul confederation more than the republic and every nation there is a member of the confederation either as observers or as full members. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:52, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

No, I am not trying to destroy your f***ing nation. I'm just going after some colonies and stuff.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  22:53, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

If we're supposed to vote for which one's acurate, then I vote Scraw's. Yank 01:15, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Why thank you. If all the other mods could pass their opinion, this could be settled shortly.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  01:17, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Can I join your side? I need some revenge for a pointless invasion Airlinesguy (talk) 01:21, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

I am trying to make a final version.I think that none of you both's algorythms is entirely correct.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:38, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Collie, I agree with your algo almost entirely. I can, however, testify that Scraw has informed me of his intentions to give Colombia (which includes Musicas and Nouvelle Judae) to CourageusLife. This would constitute a +10 for both of them. I fail to see why Scraw would get any thing other than a +3 economic motive. He wants land. That's that.

PS. I think that we ought to compare Rajputan colonies to French colonies. Because I think France would have more.


 * Well, they are close in size.This is going to be difficult.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:24, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

China joined for one. Second point, since obviously most of the states which are (L) fought as (L)s in the last war, they would not have full development scores. Plus, our scores on our side should be 90 in total, not 40. Make that 120 as China joined. That does give us the colonial advantage too. Plus, we all have other nations we can bring into this war. Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:50, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I recognize the fact of the Cypriot war, but 90? come on: i put 40 because Neu Berlin only posted and did anything six times since 1823.And one time they did nothing about their military.And Georgia also did absolutely nothing on those 15 years.ah, i almost forgot about that one year where they expanded.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:04, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

If we're going with Collie's then we might as well end the war now. Neither side is going to win anything worth a damn. Yank 17:53, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Collie, your version has a few mistakes. 1: All of France's leaders get -5 or -1 because they participated in the Cypriot War. By my math, the final result is -22. China gives us a +30 total for population, and military scores are averaged, not summed.

Rex, don't put words in my mouth.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  22:22, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * About your population.10 is going to be when you have over one billion of population, counting all the leaders.this is 1850, almost.the world's population is barely over one billion around this time.The war started in 1825 and was over in 1828.so, -3 for the leaders in that war.And i reckon that i'll have to average the economic scores as well, ain't it?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:15, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * The world's population is closer to two billion than one billion, although I agree that was a mistake on my part.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  23:40, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Please add Korea and Manchuiria as leaders of the war (since they're my most important) and the rest of my vassals as military aids. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:26, October 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Bangs pots and pans to get attention* The Hellenic Union and Cyrenaica are joining on the side of Neu Berlin, like I stated before Airlinesguy (talk) 00:41, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * As leaders, i suppose?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:15, October 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, thanks Collie :D Airlinesguy (talk) 08:33, October 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * eh, Shouldn't we end this war if the current algo's If the current algo is accurate. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 14:11, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why on earth do the French have two +10? We are not trying to destroy any of their nations'. Our main motive is his colonies = +5. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:56, October 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * One is for the Muiscas, according to Rex.and, seriously, everybody knows that you guys are going to eventually take over his nation if you win by 33,3%.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:52, October 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * But that's a paradox. If you put +10 now, we don't get the 33.33%, which means that they don't deserve the +10, which means that we get the 33.33%, which means that +10 should not be a motive unless it is absolutely stated that the intention is to take over the whole main nation. We have no troops in Musica, we are just invading lands bordering us (Baie d'Eric and the such). Again, Minority Report.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  20:37, October 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * And seeing as to how we have no chance of getting 33.33%, I think you remove the +10s. Thank you. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:37, October 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Like i've said, With India on the war, any fear from the Muiscas and France, I mean, two world powers are fighting against me, That should be enough to cause some fear at least in a few nations. Stop being greedy Guys. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:22, October 2, 2013 (UTC) PS i want peace guys no more wars for france.
 * I want no more wars for France - *asks for alliance with Hellenic Union* *invades Hellenic Union* Airlinesguy (talk) 12:58, October 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Which is the Reason france now wants an actual alliance as previous alliance offers (the one in 1800) were originally directed to the Byzantine empire, or at least  a peace agreement and non agression pact. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 17:06, October 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Musica is a small landlocked vassal. Why would it think that it's fighting for survival when no foreign troops are on its land?
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  20:42, October 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Korea was never added as a leader. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 01:07, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * there would be, Its obvious that if the french are defeated they would be forced to fight for their life, and they are close to the border with one of the biggest world empires hence fears are acceptable. and per se most of the Muisca not musica population are not as educated as the rest of the french empire population. and it was added by collie not me. He surely has a reason, and i continue asking to finish this war as the current  result of the war yields not a decisive victory to any side. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:16, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm still voting for Scraw's. Despite the result of that algo, the intent of the war was not to destroy Sine. It's just a happy coincidence. And I'm going to have to agree that having the landlocked vassal that wasen't even invaded by "fighting for their lives" is bullshit. Yank 01:21, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't add it, it was Collie's choice, I haven't change the Algo since i posted According to scraw and to me, and Collie has fixed it. Don't tell that to me, tell that to Collie. and The Muiscas landlock is and i've claimed it for a while in the map issues part as a mistake, see France's Nation page for a map of france as of 1780 and you will see what i'm saying. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:35, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

and It Georgia in Royal union with Neu berlin or in similar to carthage and the gaul republic?. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:17, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Personal union.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  01:26, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, Ok Thanks. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:35, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Cyrenaica isn't a leader, just providing Military Support. Sorry I haven't had much time to review this :P Airlinesguy (talk) 03:45, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

We should wrap these algorithms up soon CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:18, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Did I get any land :/ Airlinesguy (talk) 05:22, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

You get the bits of land directly north of your Atlantian (South American) colony. Yank 14:24, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Okay thanks :D Airlinesguy (talk) 12:55, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Updated the algorythm to account for the separate peaces that Neu Berlin and China did.Now, alright, Cyprus and Rajputana can divide the 1129 pixels to which they have right between themselves, if only they would end this war...--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:40, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to take 560 px of Nouvelle Bourgogne, giving Nea Lefkosia more coastline. Airlinesguy (talk) 01:06, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Vacation
Due to an incident back at home, I won't be as active on the wiki as in the past. Because of this, I've decided to let Imp play my nation as we planned. Hopefully he'll be able unite them as planned, and form the union between the two nations like we arranged. I'll be showing up from time to time to check up on the game's status, but for the time being, Imp will be handling Ethiopia for me. Peace for now. B)  Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:45, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Hope you manage to sort it out, and we can finally play as the future power we have imagined. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:47, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Likewise Imp. :(  Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:51, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

See you soon Viva :-( Commandante Lemming (talk) 18:54, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Imperium's Revenge Squad
Total: 105
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Imperium Africa (L), Kenya (L), Mataram (L): 12/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 46/5 = 9
 * Economy: 44/5 = 9
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7 + 7 + 7
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 7796
 * UTC Time: 21:20 = 4
 * (7794/4)*pi = 6121.393285
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

East African Federation
Total: 40
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: East Arab Fed (L): 4/12 = 0
 * Military Development: 5/30 = 0
 * Economy: 5/30 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Yeah, we really didn't like Von's nation.

((105/(105+40))*2) - 1 = 44.8%

In two years, 33.75% can be claimed, toppling the East Arabian Federation.

Discussion
Viva would have been proud. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:49, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

I am proud. :P Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:23, October 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll put up a map soon. If you can see it, tell me if it is fine with you. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:24, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

It was never called the East Arabian Federation you nitwit. Could you not be bothered to check the sign up pages? Its the East Africa Federation. Jesus. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:33, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Imperium and Co
Total: 122
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L), Kenya (L), Brunei (L), Mataram (M), Dafur (MV), Orissa (M), Khmer (L): 24/4 = 6
 * Military Development: 60/3 = 20
 * Economy: 52/3 = 17
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 20
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 7815
 * UTC Time: 21:59 = 90
 * (7815/90)*pi = 272.79496208
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4

Mali
Total: 44
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Mali (L): 4/24 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/60 = 0
 * Economy: 3/52 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
((122/(122+44))*2) - 1 = 46.5%

If the war lasts 2 years, then the Imperium and Co can claim 34.5%, toppling the government of Mali.

Discussion
Well Viva, that is another one of your wishes complete. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:17, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

'Imperium and Co'? Really? REALLY?

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 22:24, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

I know it does sound like my name, but it is also the first part of Viva's name for Ethiopia! :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:25, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

I have this weird feeling that you and Viva are either sockpuupets or know each other OTL.

Just kidding.


 * So I live in America? <:L [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:37, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

You do know that all of those tiny vassal states around Mali are vassals of Mali, and are therefore: Imp, how can you invade Mali if Ethiopian lands have no border with it?
 * 1) Engaged in the War
 * 2) Spoils to be Won by the Victors
 * 3) Finally, the size of Mali should be lager

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  03:41, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that he got so used to the notion of controlling Orissa that he forgot that he doesn't control those North African states that border Mali.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:33, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * The Gold Coast. An invasion is launched from there. That reminds me... [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 06:53, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * The Gold Coast is Orissan.You are just proving my point.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:32, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * You didn't give me a chance to put Orissa as (M). Plus Orissa and Ethiopia are in union. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:41, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

A union between Orissa and Ethiopia? That's just bullshit meta-gaming on a ridiculous scale. You have ruined what little plausibility this game still had. This game's whole over-the-top nice guy diplomacy which sees nearly every nation on the planet becoming vassalized or made a puppet or whatever; needs to be addressed in PM3. I mean when this happens in real life, there is usually at the very least some civil strife, if not a war. I mean look at the size of Rex's new empire which completely goes against everything what has previously happened in game in Arabia and has been done via no-consequence vassalization and a single war.

This rampant expansionism needs to have more negative consequences to stop it. I mean for Christ sake, its like no one thinks at all about what actual people living in that time under those conditions would actually reasonably think. Not to mention the almost constant ignoring of negative impacts of your nation's actions unless its being enforced by the rules. I'm just going to say I all out quit. This is just stupid now and some players are just taking the piss with their actions and just thinking about wining the game and not actually making an alternative history. Good day to you all. And may the other mods grow a back bone and enforce the rules relating to plausibility much more strongly. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:51, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm trying.And, despite whatever Rex says, his empire does not exist officially.But i can't stop him from committing his implausibilities.How can you warn somebody that does not listen?.That's also why i gave up on dealing with Scraw and Dean.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:17, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Von! Finally, a sane mod with balls speaks up! Collie plz. I have yet to do something implausible with regards to expansion.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:02, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * So what was your expansion until the 1700's?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:57, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? You have seen the better part of 2 centuries spent on internal relations between Orissa and Ethiopia develop. You have caused this union to become reality because of your little stunt in the 1720s. And funny you mention that, I already planned to have a US civil-war esque thing. But sure, it'll just seem like I said this because of you. I didn't even get the chance to ask Collie and the other players how I should have my civil war going on and from where should it begin and end. I wanted to create some anarchy and have fun, but why should I have had to ruin the surprise, oh wait - Von's here.

You told me to expand in Africa. I expanded in Africa. I know Central Asia isn't my turf, that is why I plan to let go of it. I am not even interested in it, I am only looking for a profit. I know South Africa has a lot of French, that's why they and the Levantines are my Boers. I wanted to have their own expansion, but I am still truing to figure out how to make it happen. But of course, how on earth would you know that when you never bothered to read up - just make accusations. And this is the 19th century. This is exactly the time when colonial expansions took place, especially in Africa. Scraw has gone to America as we all wanted him to because Germany was reunited by the south - not east. Africa is being colonised and the world is changing because new ideas and cultures are spreading. Did you even have an indication of what I had planned with Lemming? Of course not.

I planned to sell the New Zealand islands to Scan - I never got the chance to create a pacific slave trade because it wasnt logical for me to expand in North America in the 1700s. I'm selling parts of my territory in Africa to Air because I have no use for it and it would make me money. I plan to go technocratic for god's sake. The Inuit of Antillia are learning how to write becuase of Ethiopia. Our economies flouriosh and we sit on gold and a lot of fuel to power our industries. So next time, don't start saying things out of the blue, because it pisses people off. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:32, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

You're selling stuff to Air? Air a CITY-STATE in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE with NO COUNTRIES bordering it.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:02, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Really now. Then what is that Orange in Greece, North Africa and West Turkey? Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:06, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

That's Cyprus/the Hellenic Union.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:17, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Where do I come into this :S Airlinesguy (talk) 03:52, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Air's empire is realist, and he did it in a fair way, through diplomatic means, and Like collie said, you expansion until the 1700's was fairly unlikely for a german empire. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:19, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. Air the user. Dammit Imp!

Sine plz. Seriously, he started on an island and controls major territories each three times bigger than said island.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  02:33, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Let's not get into Cypriot implausibility arguments plz Airlinesguy (talk) 10:05, October 7, 2013 (UTC) ^_^

Warrior Games 1844 (Yagich Atticus)
Please Submit names of competitors in the following events and cast votes.

Swordsmanship:

John Hgichin'OnaYagichin'e'Selk'nam'iGunnunich'iHaush, Noble of Ona Yagich (Selk'nam)

Prince Eric Blackfoot (Apache)


 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 18:18, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Ekchuah Hayal (Zapotec, Mayan Empire)


 * Grantzu (talk) 20:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Marksmanship:

Elwin Jones, Welshman of De Mor Tir City (Selk'nam)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 18:18, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grantzu (talk) 20:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Senetor Gulab (Apache)


 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Tepeu Chac (Boruca, Mayan Empire)

Jousting:

Mikishius Tijich of the Teushen Lands (Selk'nam)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 18:18, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grantzu (talk) 20:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Nomad Bodaway (Apache)

Eztli Cimsabal (Chichimeca, Mayan Empire)


 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Obstacle Course;

Aristotle Ichin'Selk'nam of Yagich Atticus.


 * Grantzu (talk) 20:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Brother Charles (Apache)


 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 18:18, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Atabai Bin (Mangue, Mayan Empire)

Sailing:

TaoTeChing Gtl'hgog'i'i'i of Miyako Yagich (Selk'nam)

Elan Bear (Apache)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 18:18, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Atl Chem (Chichen Itza, Mayan Empire)


 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grantzu (talk) 20:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Swimming:

John Baptist Alacaluf'i'ichin, of the Alacaluf of the Northwetern Mainland (Selk'nam)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 18:18, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Bimisi Craig (Apache)

Meztli Chuplal (Guaycura, Mayan Empire) (Female)


 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grantzu (talk) 20:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

New Mod
Can we please elect a new mod? Cause the only mods who write mod events write said events to benefit themselves.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:04, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'm going to just say this right now, that was highly offensive to all of us mods. I'll have you know that I've incitied one revolt and multiple natural disasters on my own nation. Scandinator (talk) 02:04, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

You've also made several mod events that annexed countries massively different from Italy (Netherlands, Britain) into Italy. I did not say it to all mods, only those that wrote nation mod events, not disasters. Collie does a very good job of keeping up with OTL disasters.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  02:15, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * And plus, no offense, but Scan seems like he gave up on making disaster events.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:05, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * My apologies... My sleeping pattern has shifted badly and Im usually not awake in time of the start of the new turn...
 * In regards to the Alliance of the North Sea... If you note, Italia took Benelux from Brandenburg and then when the French League and Britain had their crisis the closest stable strong nation in the region was Italia though the Benelux. I have not used and have promised to not use them aggressively as it is implausable to do so... (cough, Viva, cough, Neu Berlin invasion).  Scandinator (talk) 10:41, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

At this point the inactivity punishment event has gained quite a bit of precedent. It's a simple formula. 5 days inactive plus no explanation note on this page equals punishment. May I remind you that the deal you got to keep yourself in the game is technically not in the rules, but we allowed it anyway. --Yank 02:48, October 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * And may I remind you that most people do that anyways?


 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  15:37, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Still, we might need a new mod.We only have five technically active mods right now, as Lurker and Fed don't seem like they will come back, and Von neither, judging by his most recent post on the talk page.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:09, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

I do think a new mod (or two frankly) would be a good idea in itself as we have a few mods who have become less active and I think the game benefits from more mod events that upset the apple cart, too keep the game fresh. (I'd also be willing to run if you're looking for vollunteers) Commandante Lemming (talk) 18:50, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Tell you what, to get yourselves a totally unbiased mod, why don't you ask someone not playing? MP for instance?

Lol, What Guns said is true, no major player here will ever be a unbiased mod, and although i felt the same that scraw felt with Scan, Scan has the point of him being one of the closest powerfull nations.My advice just choose collie like players, People who don't get involved in wars to often. and perhaps a rule to avoid mod bias towards nations or players. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:25, October 5, 2013 (UTC) Guns, how about YOU?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  20:28, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

I think that Callum and Lemming would be fit for this position.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:30, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

I want to put my candidacy for mod once again...IRL issues(mostly relating to school) have kept me previously indesposed to regular editing...I will try and work on that in comming days but I make no promises. I also want to add that I can be a good mod...please give me a chance with authority and I promise I wont abuse it.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:17, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Why not? I'm not a horrible mod, not at all.

isnt there an unwritten(or written) convention that you should not make mod events having nations rebel off of one player, and then join your nation? because that's what happened to Norway State. Even though plausibility might exist, it just feels cheap that Yank made the Norwegian state say no more russia and decide so suddenly to get annexed by scandinavia.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:28, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Election
We shall use the rules of the latest election again this time: For a Mod to be elected, he must have 5 votes (may vote any number of times). You may also vote against. If you decide to do so, bold your name. Elections for new mods never close. This election will elect only two mods.

Commandante Lemming

 * Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:41, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Callumthered (mod now)

 * Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:41, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * -Kogasa [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|50px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|23px|border]] 2013 October 06, 22:46 (CET)
 * Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:14, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 18:34, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Scandinator (talk) 13:32, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Lxcaucassus

 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * Scandinator (talk) 13:32, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * DS|The Rainbow Machete 14:35, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * -Lx (leave me a message) 19:21, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Imperium Guy (mod now)

 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * -Kogasa [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|50px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|23px|border]] 2013 October 06, 22:46 (CET)
 * CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:16, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Scandinator (talk) 13:32, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:27, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * -Lx (leave me a message) 19:22, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Who candidated Imp?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:41, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Me.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  17:46, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Oh? Thank you Scraw! :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 06:55, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Only current mods vote right? Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:48, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

No, everybody votes.the requirement for 5 votes should make this obvious.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:42, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, since two of our candidates have hit five votes, the election is practically closed, and Callumthered and Imp are now moderators.the rest of you who still haven't voted can still cast votes, i think, but it won't change the results.

And to both of the moderators-elect, no offense, but in keeping with the point why the suggestion of a election was called first, i don't want to see none of you making events to specifically benefit your own nation.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:52, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Oh  - could have sworn I read somewhere that only mods could vote on new mods but I guess that's the impeachment rule rather than the election rule. Either way, good for Imp and Callum and please keep my name in the pool next time  a vacancy arises. I'm very interested in the nuts and bolts of this game and do a lot of reading, so it would be pretty easy for me to add mod duties at some point in the future. Commandante Lemming (talk) 19:59, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Its time we made that little stunt official. XD [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:04, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, I was genuinely not expecting to get this. Thank you Collie for candidating me, and for the people who voted for me. I vow always to keep my player interests and my mod responsibilities separate. If/When I write events, they will focus on areas in which I have minimal-no presence or interest. Callumthered (talk) 22:01, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much to Scraw and the others for voting to me. I plainly know many do not have faith in me to not use mod posts to my own advantage, but I promise I will not. I have a few chaos plans up the works with the game could benefit from. I don't really plan on giving penalties for these, but I would like players to work on the problems which will arise, or pentalities might arrive.

I will be starting with my own nation, so you can get a feel for what is happening. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:36, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Apostolic Church Election 1846
Canidates: Brother Lando (Selk'nam)

Memeber Nations: Apache, Selk'nam, Tojiko, Britain

Votes:

Selk'nam (Commandante): Brother Lando Commandante Lemming (talk) 19:30, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Apache (Grantzu):

Tojiko (Kogasa): Brother Lando

Britain (Scan):

1850 Olympic Games
As some may be aware, Bavaria has re-established the ancient Greek Olympic Games. Any nations interested in attending the first games, please list below.

I WAS GOING TO DO THIS! DAMMIT.
 * 1) Team Germany(Bavaria and Saxony)
 * 2) Team Hellas/Hellenic Union (Hellenic Union) Obviously :P
 * 3) Team Cyrenaica (If Cyrenaica can enter as a different state to Hellenic Union, I'd like that)
 * 4) Team Italia
 * 5) Team Yugoslavia
 * 6) Team Nuovo Italia
 * 7) Team Romania
 * 8) Team Hungary
 * 9) Team Levantine
 * 10) Team Portugal
 * 11) Team Aragon
 * 12) Team León
 * 13) Team Castille
 * 14) Team Selk'nam Haruwin
 * 15) Team Yagich Rafael
 * 16) Team Praetorate of Pure Science
 * 17) Team Scandinavia
 * 18) Team United Maharajya (for now)
 * 19) Team Imperium Africana (for now)
 * 20) Team Neu Berlin
 * 21) Team Maya
 * 22) Team Russia
 * 23) Team Suur-Suomi
 * 24) Team Persia
 * 25) Team Gaul / France
 * 26) Team Carthage

So, can Team Neu Berlin join?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  19:27, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yes of course it's open to all nations. after the games I'll post voting for the next games in 1854 shall I put Neu Berlin on the list if potential places? Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 19:39, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yes please. Also may I suggest holding the games in 1856 instead? More time for others to join.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  19:49, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Antillian nations already have our own versions, but I'll join this one too. CourageousLife (talk) 21:20, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps, but this is for the world, not a region. -- Andrew cribb

Obviously. CourageousLife (talk) 23:19, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Selk'nam Industry Score?
Just because I've asked this multiple times to a number of people and don't want to get ahead of myself, is there a firm ruling on where the Selk'nam are on the updated industry chart (they are shown in my map color on the map - which is dark red - but I know they are not dark red on the industry score). I was originally Sky Blue on the chart for 1855 industrialization, but based on the expansion of neigboring colonies which are orange, my guess is that I am nor Light Green - that makse a big difference in how much I get to industrialize as it would put me several stages in already rather than not even to Stage 1. Commandante Lemming (talk) 16:30, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

I'll fix the map. Northern section is yellow, southern is Dark Green. Your northen section will have your main hubs as a consequent result. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:15, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. That actually will really mess up my power structure as my capital is in the South and the mainland North is underdeveloped. Will wait on the map to see shich side of the line the Falklands land on, seeing as De Mor Tir City would be the logical origin point as it's a former Welsh colony and already is the most developed place in the nation. Commandante Lemming (talk) 18:52, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, I've been decent, but now I call BULLSHIT!
Yank just went and edited the 1944 mod event. Now, to counter my attempts at trying to regain control, he benifited himself directly by annexing all Russian territory in Finno-Scandia with the exception of the Saami Autonomous Oblast. Suur-Suomi was previously not a vassal, it was its own independant Grand Principality with its own democraticaly elected Diet and esentialy like one of the members of the brittish commonwealth. A good analagy of what has happened is that Canada decided to get Annexed by the USA and give up all its freedom simply because the Queen and her family died in a terrorist attack. No. This makes no logic. Why on Earth would a perfectly independant nation decide to give up all its freedom and decide to get annexed into a nation. This, my friends is simply BS. Yank went into an event 6 years ago, and made a nation that was incredibly and completely self-governing(i.e. any member of Commonwealth of Nations) to decide to be annexed into a neighbouring nation, for no reason whatsoever, like Obama ordered Harper to forcibly annex Canada into the USA, despite pleas from its people. THis is BS. This isnt the first time Yank has done this, he edited the event that says that Russia accepts independance, and added parts about "seperate royal houses or republics" right after I went out, and declared that I wanted to use legal clauses in those nations' constitutions to get them back. He went back in time, and rewrote the events to make it harder for me, and to better benifit Scandinavia. I can been co-operative, but this crosses a line. This is, pure and simply, Bullshit in its simplest form.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:39, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'm with Lx.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  00:49, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

What's bullshit is that you expect that you can simply snap your fingers and make your problem dissapear. When your vassals declared independance there was no official Tsar. Thus every single clause featuring his rule over them were voted out of their respective contstitutions. They needed leaders and Russia was unable to provide. Thus they chose their own. The status quo has changed permanently. Yank 00:50, October 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no official tsar for at most I think half a year at one point. During the Interregnum, the Verkhovniy posadnik(Prime Minister) takes up the Tsar's Responsibilities untill a new one is elected. The Other Nations in the Russian Realm have a Governor General as their HoS. He does not get replaced, he reigns for a fixed term, unless you're Minsk, in which case the Romanovs rule. There is no problem without having a Tsar for prolonged periods of time in the Russian Realm...well, at least russian civil war probably would have happened because NO GOVERNEMENT since, you decided to kill every single member of the Duma in an implausibly large explosion, fine, except for one member. I dont know what others would have done, but I dont believe their first reaciton would be "SCRAP RUSSIA" because of all the mutual agreements, single customs zones, Single economic Zones, the Railway system especialy that was run by a joint commision of all nations(hence the name, Eurasian Railway Commsion(Evraziyskaya Zheleznodorozhnaya Komissiya), EZhK). Well, if russia devolved into civil war, at least you got one thing right by having the Caucasus be all like: I'm out first since they are probably the most militant and different of all russia's Buffer states.-Lx (leave me a message) 02:41, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tsar is elected in Russia. Your argument is invalid, Yank.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  02:43, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * The mod event was changed to acknowlege this. Now the Duma was blown up in a Gunpowder Plot-type scenario with the Tsar speaking. Who's going to elect him when they're mostly all dead? Yank 02:47, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's cheating. And the Tsar is elected by the regional leaders of each nation (or at least that's how the OTL Novgorodian system worked), so they'd be sitting at home sipping gunpowder tea, drinking Vodka, and smoking Cuban cigars when it happened.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  02:52, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * LX said that the Duma elected the Tsar. I had the Duma blown up. Thus there is no one to elect him. Plus do I have to remind you that technically your Neu Berlin deal is cheating? You should have dead permanently, but we allowed you to stay. So don't you talk about cheating. Yank 20:09, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * It was given to me by the victors. I see no wrong in that.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  20:41, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I never said that Duma elected the Tsar. In fact, a veche elects the tsar. People send representatives to an often large electoral commision made out of local leaders...and they elect the tsar...the Duma is just another elected body, like the original purpose of the US electoral college, but on a much larger scale, the larges veche in history was recorded at over 500 000 attendees...kind of convoluted...thanks a bit for simplifying I guess...can I please deal with TOB for taking ukraine? The fact he was able to take controls is the fault of people that decided to break up russia.-Lx (leave me a message) 21:04, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * The local people choose a representative for the Duma, and the Duma elects the Tsar. Then the Duma was blown up, leaving noone to elect the Tsar, allowing power hungry nobles to attempt to seize power. Now the Duma doesn't elect the Tsar which is now hereditary with a solid line of succession, but they now elect a Prime Minister. So the Russian government is now essentially the otl British government before the major curtailing of the monarchy's power. Yank 00:25, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, A lot simpler, the difference between Veche and Duma is that in veche, its basicaly anybody from any place that has russia as their monarch comes and elects, not just from russia propper. There was already a prime minister that was the leader of the largest faction or an independant with charisma. You just made the system a lot simpler by removing the vehce. Also, one of the things that made novgorod novgorod is the fact that the people have the right to ask nay demand for the abdication of then Tsar, and replace him with one they like...that's the reason the elective monarchy went on so long...anyway, we can force abdication without loosing heredity... Somwhow I now think that this whole series of events happened because of one simple reason: misinformation...-Lx (leave me a message) 03:25, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

The Reason we blow up nations that are inactive for 5 days is that we expect that the player will not be back. The reson we dont do that and cause "inactivity" is that we assume that the original rulemakers meant that if a nation goes inactive for no aparent reason, it means said person probably lost interest. I obviously did not, considering I returned. I actualy had school-related issues that prevented me from editing...pretty much at all...and unexpectedly. I can warn you if I plan to go missing. I cant if I dont. Now, I believe that you did act according to what information you had at the time. However, when new information was braught to light, almost instantly, you should have taken it as food for thought. completely "dropping off the radar" off of everything is not something people normaly do if they loose intertest in one thing. Now, fine, I was gone, you can set me back, but dont decide to trip me at every step step I take.-Lx (leave me a message) 02:37, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

As long as you don't try to instantly win back your empire or something I won't. Plus I want the new borders to be recognized. This means no Russia-targeted mod events will come from me (I can't promise Collie won't) and no more turn strikes either. I apologize for my rudeness, but when I created the mod event that started this it didn't seem like you'd be returning. I want to be able to play this game with you so can we bury the hatchet? Yank 02:42, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

That's waht I meant by "you acted with the information you had at the time". we should clairify the nation blow up rule...so that situations like this dont happen agian... I am planning to take back Ukraine using Assasin politics then pulling consititution card, Belarus using Marriage Politics, then Assasin and constitution politics, and FInland Using speaking poltics, Astrakhan using Strong arm politics, the saami too, since they were originaly just an automous Oblast(think Tatarstan in Modern Russia but more automony), since they just lost a war, and, well, they would want guaranteed protection, other places I might coup d'etat to get into, and I might use Cannon politics to ultimatum the formation of another FDC or equivelant...and, also, NAME GEORGIA SAKARTLEVO!!! (FAKE INTERNET RAGE HAR HAR). Anyway, why didnt anybody pay attention to my proposal that we name goergia Sakartlevo since it not being that in the first place being bad reserch on my part... So, anyway, what do you think of paln?-Lx (leave me a message) 02:58, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

I originally wanted just the Swedish territory to pu some space in between you and my capital at Stockholm. Then Collie added Finland and I just went with it. I would leave Belarus alone, because it doesn't have as much strategic value as Ukraine. What with Ukraine being on the Black Sea and all. --Yank 03:07, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Persia respects the right of the Tsar to rule over all formerly Russian territories minus Azerbaijan (which is ethnically a mixture between the Turks and the Persians, who in ATL are much more similar than in OTL). With that being said, I will not interfere with your rights to your former lands. 10:43, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Posting, and Ninjasvwarior
Hi, guys. I really love PMII, and I consider it to be my main map-game. But as it is, with my schedule taking honors classes, pursuing a 4.8 GPA, wrestling practices, and testing for my Shodan (Black Belt), so I will be really busy!

I have asked Ninja, the player of Burma (Myanmanr) to post for me, and he has graciously agreed to do so. As such, I am asking for nobody to declare war on me (him). I will be on maybe 1-2 times a week still, but it'll probably end up to be more than that. Thanks,

PMIII Map
I have begun gathering the resources to start drawing the PMIII Map. Crash course in French and German geography... AGAIN. I'm planning on setting it on a Paint.Net file so as to have the OTL modern world map with country borders as a layer underneath. Thus no geographical inaccuracies... This does of course mean we need to find a labelled version of the current base map or find a new base map... Meaning that the pixel sizes may change... I shall seek to find a map no smaller than of the current one and of the same scale. If I could have help that would be great. Scandinator (talk) 20:10, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Paint.net? does this mean i can't edit it on MS Paint?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:43, October 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course you can. I assume Scan will upload it onto the wiki, and you can take it from there.
 * <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  15:46, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

I do have an idea for colors for different countries, make a labelled key for the map, as to make it easier for people to know who is who. DS|The Rainbow Machete 20:13, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

PMIII starts the day PMII ends, right? So then Feb 19th (the 50th day of the new year).

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 12:19, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

My accounts say that is March 23.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:26, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well, today is the 286th day of the year. There are 161 days left. 161 plus 286 is 446. 446 minus 365 is 82.

Which is... yeah, March 22nd.

Damn.

MS Paint is one layer only... For more accuracy I think we should use a software that has the ability to have multiple layers and then upload the top layer. Im searching for a good base map about the same size and scale atm... Scandinator (talk) 19:38, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

1856 Olympic Games Locale vote
Please nominate where you want the 1856 games to be held. A vote will be held on the region. 10 people must agree on a locale in order for the city to be selected.

Vienna

 * Germany Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 20:37, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Athens

 * Russia and asociates-Lx (leave me a message) 22:44, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Neu Berlin <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">           [[Image:Regen Seal.png|15px|border|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."
 * Yank 00:38, October 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Airlinesguy (talk) 01:03, October 12, 2013 (UTC) (If I can vote for myself :P )
 * Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:40, October 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:49, October 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:42, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yagich Rafael Yagich

 * Selk'nam and Yagich Rafael Commandante Lemming (talk) 23:14, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Chichen Itza

 * Mayan Empire CourageousLife (talk) 00:34, October 12, 2013 (UTC) (My logic - we won this year, so it's our turn to host)

Discussion
Are you sure that 10 people are really necessary? what if by 1856 you still haven't hit the 10 people figure, or in the future, two cities or more compete very closely and none of them hits 10 votes?.And plus, we should also estabilish a limit for until when voting can progress, to avoid the city being chosen in the last minute, which given the scale of organization that those things will eventually have, can't happen.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 18:34, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

My understanding was that we had about 24 or so nations attending, i assumed(incorrectly) than ten would be give everyone a fair shot. I do concur, I will limit it to 7 and if that has not been reached by the games year, the one with the most will become the city. If two cities compete closely, whichever has the most(it can be under the limit due to time constraints) will become the Olympic city. How would you propose a time limit? ~Andrew whom using an iPad and hasnt signed in
 * Well, it seems like we're voting by users, not nations, so this limit of 10 seems pointless with users.But it would make sense if we voted by nations.And i think that we should finish choosing the city of the games of certain date three to four years before the games in question.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:15, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

In that case, Athens has won. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:20, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Lol. Props to you.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  19:25, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

if we are all in agreement. I will announce in the coming year. Athens, Greece shall be the host city of the 1856 Olympic Games. Finally, after thousands of years, the Games have returned to Athens!Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 21:51, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks everyone :D Airlinesguy (talk) 01:08, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Cool story. CourageousLife (talk) 16:20, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Athens never hosted the Ancient Olympics. Rex

He probably meant Greece/Hellas/successor state. -Airlines

Persia
So, I have noted some cross-outs on my post (actually, Ninjasvwarriors did me a favor by posting that), and a mod event that was directed at me.

I have decided to show you all the details of Persia's expansion. I have had to go back a little bit, but first I would like to show you a map of Persia under the First Askari Dynasty (before Arabia, Rome, and the Dimurats took me out).

Now, if we look at this map, we can compare it to the current size (according to me) of Persia under the Second Askari Dynasty.

Lets take a look.. under the 1st Dynasty, Persia was surrounded by the Levantine Kingdom, Arabian Federation, Rome, and the Dimurats.

Now, Persia only shares a border with Orissa and the Levantine Kingdom, as well as our vassals share borders with the Hellenic Union and the Arabian Federation.

Now, just from that perspective, we are bordered by Orissa, who is on good terms with Persia. We are bordered by the Levantine Kingdom, which hasn't done, really anything, since before I started as the 1st Dynasty. And the Federation has since collapsed, leaving a small rump state. The Union isn't really much of a threat, although still powerful, and is (I think) on decent terms with Persia.

Now for a list of our vassals, and how I got them, you will realize that it isn't altogether implausible. The general convention for vassalization is 5 turns, but the rules state at least 4-5. Also, there is no real rule on puppets, but again the convention is 3 for a people who are similar to your own. Now, I will list current states of the Persian Empire, with their main ethnicity, and their race. Now, as you can see, there are 5 ethnicities - Persian, Mesopotamian, Arabian, German, and Turkish. The German ethnicity is small, so can be regarded as a definite minority. We can also assume they all left following the Great Germanic War. The Arabians are definitely the most important to address here. They are there own ethnicity, but Persia does not own all of Arabia. We own: As for the Turks, the Turks and Persians are more similar to each other than either of them are the Arabs. In reality, they come from the same region of the world - Central Asia. See this image from a history textbook (which I used to study from) to see my point. The Turkish and Persian languages (prior to Ataturk, who will never exist in ATL), were very similar, and both were usable as an alternative to Arabic.
 * Persia - First nation
 * Sanaa - Puppetization, 1825
 * Aden - Puppetization, 1825
 * Baghdad - Mod Event, 1826
 * Kuwait - Mod Event, 1826
 * Georgia - War vs Germanic, 1826
 * Kurdistan - Vassalization, 1828
 * Hadraumat - Puppetization, 1830
 * Socotora - Puppetization, 1832
 * Khafji - Vassalization, 1837
 * Turkomenistan - War vs Asya, 1840
 * Samani - War vs Asya, 1840
 * Najran - Puppetization, 1841
 * Shaybah - Diplomatic Union, 1843
 * Hail - Vassalization, 1845
 * Turkistan - Vassalization, 1845
 * Persia - Nestorian, Persian/Mesopotamian
 * Yemen - Nestorian, Arabian
 * Georgia - Christian of some sort, Turkish/German
 * Kurdistan - Nestorian, Mesopotamian
 * Khafji - Muslim, Mesopotamian/Arabian
 * Turkomenistan - Muslim/Nestorian, Persian
 * Najran - Muslim/Nestorian, Arabian
 * Shaybah - Muslim/Nestorian, Arabian
 * Hail - Muslim, Mesopotamian/Arabian
 * Turkistan - Christian of some sort, Turkish
 * 1) The Yemen region, which is united to Persia by religion.
 * 2) The Mesopotamian region, which has regularly been under Persian control. (1st Askari Dynasty, older Persian Empires)

So, in conclusion, I feel that all of my nations are legitimate. The revolution in the former Asyan lands are understandable. The rebellion in Turkistan is kind of unlikely, in my opinion, but I understand the need to do a bit of punishment for over-expansion. Persia is slowly centralizing - which, acc. to the rules, will reduce rebellions.

Thank you for you time, 03:10, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Oops... forgot to mention Georgia and why I ought to own that piece of land. Now, I understand Scraw claims it to be part of his back-up. However, I see 2 main reasons why this is not realistic. 03:15, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) In real life, nations did not have back-ups. Sure, there was Free France, and some monarchs fled to their colonies, but if an empire could exact total destruction over a nation, the monarchs would rarely be given a colony to rule over. (Only one I know of is Napoleon, and he got a tiny island).
 * 2) During the Great Germanic War, Persian forces attacked and captured Georgia. The algorithim supports this conclusion. My troops have never left Georgia, and therefore it is under my domain. Unless a German rescue mission is sent (for no real reason - I sent the dissidents away, if they wanted to), my men occupy Georgia.

Follow-up
The monarchs simply fled to the right place in the right time, very much like the Portuguese when Napoleon invaded them. Except in Portugal's case, the son of the monarch took over after his father went back home. So yeah, same story, except that I'm not going to have some random old dude who doesn't want the throne anymore. Or maybe I will. Whatever.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  03:22, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Also you have to border a state to vassalize it. And these states were all Von states, which had the special NPC bonus.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  03:23, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, we do have a border. Persia shares a border with Georgia. Furthermore, the NPC bonus is that they have a bonus in the algo. 03:48, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

I mean that you don't border the Yemeni states.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  03:49, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

From the rules: "They do not need to be contiguous to your nation." So, that is no issue. 03:56, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

"The farther away the potential vassal from your home nation's heartlands the longer it will take to vassalize. "

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  04:08, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

That is under the vassal rules. I have only vassalized Kurdistan, Hail, Khafji, and Turkistan. I did it in such a way that either Persia or Baghdad (ruled by the same man) vassalized them. 05:16, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

This also goes for puppets.And, the main problem with you taking five years for that is that you are often attempting to influence two, three or even four states at the same time, sometimes, amidst wars, so you are frequently overextending yourself (and plus, almost quadrupling in size in 20 years using mostly diplomatic means? of course, in size, most of your territory was gained through war, but isn't my fault you went to two wars and picked on two big states.).And since when Yemen is Nestorian?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:06, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I had always felt that puppets only took 3 years. I was, therefore, mistaken. And, as you pointed out, we gained most of our land through, firstly, a Mod Event, and secondly, a war with a sizable regional power. And as far as influencing different states goes, normally I had Baghdad working on one state whilst Persia was working on another. Now that they are united, that will not happen. And I do not know since when Yemen was Nestorian, but Persia, the Levant, and Yemen have always been Nestorian since I joined the game. See the oldest of the 3 religions maps (which I didn't make) to see what I mean by this. Well, 09:43, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

So has all of my stuff been ruled valid? Thanks,

No.Your part about Yemen is wrong.I made the original religion map coloring the religions according to countries, and back in the day, Yemen belonged to the Levantine kingdom.That map did not represent the religions that actually were followed on the areas.That is the same reason why in that map, Aragon was coloured Germanic even while the people of the region were Catholic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 10:19, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Rex, i can easily tell you, you screwed your empire when ignored for most of your time as persia the fact that every mod had told you that you couldn't take yemen,as vassal, puppet or other. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 12:34, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Kingdom of Tanimbarkai
Total: 39
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Tanimbarkai (L), Saxony (M), Bavarian Australis (S): 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 12/3 = +3
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 1478
 * UTC Time: 08:46
 * 1478/192 x pi = 24.1837185
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Sumba
Total: 35
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Sumba (L) = 4/9 = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: 3
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Okay, so by my calculations:

p=((39/(35+39)*2)-1=0.054054054

0.054054054*(1-1/(2*5)=0.0486486486

Theefore, Tanimbarkai gets 4.8%!!!! Woohoo! So much!Callumthered (talk) 08:33, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Could an unbiased mod please do the chance, the populations and Sumba's details please? Callumthered (talk) 09:00, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Do not forget, Bavarian Australis is aiding. --andrew

Kiev Conference 1854
Germany hereby calls a conference in the Ukrainian city of Kiev to discuss the issues and complaints that are present on both sides. The Fatherland is committed to peace in Europe. It is our hope, in this open forum, that Ukraine and Russia can discuss one anothers' issues without need for bloodshed.

Gaul Backs the position of Germany. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:45, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

The only thing we want, is our soverginity, plead that if Russia begins hostile actions, that you help us in the pursuit of Freedom. Ukraine states that we want to keep friendly relations as russia, and dont see them as any kind of enemy as long as they dont try to strip away our freedoms of being a self governed nation.

Germany acknowledges this but states that the Ukraine was never subdued by Russia. Your nation has always bee sovereign. Russia is a fair and just land. The Ukraine under the Russian Federation was free, it was its own nation, it just had representation in the Russian duma and shared a currency. Your fears of being enslaved and brutalised are for nothing, the Russians will not meddle.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 21:22, October 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not only that, Ukraine had its own Duma-Lx (leave me a message) 23:03, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Neu Berlin backs Russia and also states that the Ukraine never lost its sovereignty.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:20, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

But Ukraine wzants to go its own way in the world, and not  have its every move influenced by the russians. We want to be firends with the russians, but we want complete home rule, and no influence of the russians on the Ukrainian People.

OOC: You do realize that Ukraine and Russia practically have the same culture ATM ATL?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:46, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Well, accepting the Russian Tsar as your Head of state will not stamp on your rights, Just look at Canada and Great Brittain to see what I mean. They share a queen, but the UK can't do jack squat to force canada, in fact, there was a whole scandal when a Prime Minister tried to stay in office by going to the brittish privy council...lets just say brittian cand make any decisions whatsoever for canada, Canada does whatever it wants, regardless of who's face is on our money. in all logic, you should still be using the Russian rubble, since it is one of the most valuable currencies in the world ATM, All Russia would like is to return to happy fun times of before...when there was a single economic zone, a single currency, a single ruler, and single customs zone, Kind of like a merger between the EU and the Commonwealth of nations, you see the main theme here? Nobody's sovreignty is being deleted, nobody's home  rule is beind denied.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:03, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ukraine agrees with this, as the amount of freedom (assuming its like OTL) can satisfy the feeling onf nationalisim and the pursuit of freedom, while having the protection it needs from possible hostiles.

If we have come to an agreement I will adjorn this conference. Ukraine will accept the Tsar's oversight and rejoin the Russian Commonwealth and economic zone. In exchange peace remains in Europe. If all agree to these terms. Prime Minister John Grisson of the German Empire hereby closes this conference. May Peace last in our time.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 00:33, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

New Labelled Map
It's been fifty-five days since the last labelled map should have been made. What the hell happened?Yank 23:39, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Scan is the only one who can do these maps.ask him.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:52, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty easy actually. I was planning to do one for 1850. Sit tight folks, I might be able to get round to it soon enough! :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:01, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sapa's Speech
''In the far Northern regions of Patagonshina, bordering the lawless jungle, the educated son of a tribal elder becomes disillusioned with the succession of colonists who have occupied his land and the various foreign beliefs they have enforced - Catholicism, Apostolicism, and now Hinduism. The lad, named Sapa Huacan, fasts and flagelates himself in the wilderness, begging the heavens to show him whether any of these religions are the true path, or whether he should follow traditional native religion.''

''After three months in the desert, an emaciated and dazed Sapa Huacan wanders back into his home village. The locals are concerned for his health, but he refuses water and immediately begins yelling in the town square, "I have found enlightenment! Hear the word of the true divinity!"''

Many of the townspeople think he has gone mad, but he continues, "I beat myself for ninety days, and on the eighty-seventh day, satisfied with my penitence, the angel of the true divinity appeared to me in the form of a bat! At first I thought I had gone mad, but for three day the bat taught me the history of all religions, and I required neither food nor drink nor sleep, yet was refreshed. I tell you today that all religions serve the same god, Hindu and Atlantian and Christian, yet have become divided by an evil spirits which the angels call "the grasshoppers". This grasshoppers have devoured the good fields of our minds and made us fight one another, not realizing that we all once served the same spirit. This is why the angel came as a bat, because as bats eat grasshoppers, so we must purge these spirit grasshoppers from our minds and unite ourselves!"

''Sapa Huacan goes on for three hours illuminating the village, and some become convinced by his knowledge. Finally he concludes, "All the prophets have come in succession but have been divided - Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Mohammed, and St. Maughold of Konip, but I have been called as the last prophet to united the divided strands and defeat the grasshoppers - and have been given a new name - Sapa Huacan is no more, his life-force has merged with the divinity, and this body will now be known by the mystical word by which the lost ancients warded off the grasshopper spirits! This body shall be know as A'Asab!''

Courtesy - Commander Lemming

Byakuren
Total: 40
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Byakuren (L): 4/8 =0
 * Military Development: +15/16 = 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 8,812
 * UTC Time: 19:52 = 90
 * 8812/90*pi= 307.59682737148064463703126103843
 * Nation Age: 0 (55 Years)
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Dakshin Alliance
Total: 96*1.1 industrial bonus = ~106
 * Location: 5 (we use the colony)
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Cebu (L), Mataram (L), Orissa (M): 11/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 16/15 = 0
 * Economy: 44/0 = 44
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7 + 7 = 14
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit Count: 7,939
 * UTC Time: 19:47 = 252
 * 7939/252*pi= 98.972635225592732222837007221651
 * Nation Age: 3 (5/2)
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((106/(106+40))*2) - 1 = 0.45205479

In the 3 years the war was fought, 37.75% has been captured, with the Byakuren government toppled and the nation under the control of Cebu/Mataram.

The nation will now be controlled for a few years as its fate is contemplated.

Discussions
Kogasa, I plan to hold on to this for 5 years, then sell it onward back to Japan in the hope of getting some land in exchange from the dominion in Namibia so my colonies in the area have a slightly easier time expanding. Thanks. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:02, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Tojiko you mean, and it's a Federal Republic. Also none of my former colonies are a Dominion, and they are all Republics of some kind along with being fully independent. Anyway, that's fine by me. Also are we also going to do a trade of land between Cebu and the Republic of Byakuren, since the latter in the map looks quite strange (when leaving the Chile Coastline)? -Kogasa  2013 October 16, 20:15 (CET)

I would say yes, so I gain extra land in Africa (mwahaha). Btw, why is it called Stage 6 Boss, lol? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:21, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

It's a Touhou reference. It's a reference to Byakuren Hijiri, who is a Stage 6 Boss in the Twelfth Touhou Project game Undefined Fantastic Object.

In actuality, I named the nation after the sect. Since the first two Chinese Characters (白蓮, from 白蓮教) would be read as Byakuren in Japanese, I went and called it by the Japanese name. -Kogasa  2013 October 16, 20:39 (CET)

1856 Apostolic Prime Bishop election
Candidates:    Bishop Kusano Tsuyoshi (Tojiko, Jiduhist)

Member Nations: Tojiko, Apache, Wales, Selk'nam, Yagich Rafael

Votes:

Sek'nam/Yagich Rafael (Lemming):    Bishop Kusano Tsuyoshi Commandante Lemming (talk) 22:10, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Tojiko (Kogasa): Bishop Kusano Tsuyoshi

Apache (Grantzu): Bishop Kusano TsuyoshiGrantzu (talk) 20:58, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Wales (Scan):

Olympics?
So did the Olympics happen? Do we haveto sing up to compete?

Read further up, the Olympics happen every 6 years, just add your nation.

Every six years? That's no fun! Let's make it four years, like OTL. I want to host games in 1860 or something,

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:03, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, 4 years is better. We can just make the first having 6 years due to problems with negociations. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:04, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I wanted to do every four years but Collie and a few others told me to make it six. I suppose I could make it four.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 03:07, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Four, please and thank you.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  03:20, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Where did i told you to make it six? i just told you to choose the location of the Olympics of a certain year four years before it.Four is better.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:46, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

02:52, October 18, 2013 (UTC)Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk)

1860 Olympic Games
Please nominate where you want the 1860 games to be held. This will be speedy and whomever gains the most votes will be winner. Also due to some international discussions all games will revert to the original four year schedule, thank you for your cooperation.


 * Germany nominates: Neu Berlin
 * Portugal nominates: Lisboa
 * Castille nominates: Toledo
 * Aragon nominates: Neu Berlin
 * León nominates: Lisboa
 * United Maharajya nominates: Neu Berlin
 * Imperium Africana nominates: Neu Berlin
 * Praetorate of Pure Science nominates: Yagich Scientifica
 * Selk'nam Haruwin Nominates: Neu Berlin
 * Italia nominates: Belgrade
 * Yugoslavia nominates: Belgrade
 * Nuovo Italia nominates: Nuovo Venexia
 * Mayan Empire nominates: Neu Berlin
 * Neu Berlin nominates: Paris
 * Hellenic Union nominates Neu Berlin
 * Cyrenaica nominates Neu Berlin

Off topic but random idea - has anyone considered the idea of in the future restricting the next location to like the Top five finishers or something like that. It would make it easier for voters and give the lottery some meaning. Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:08, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. We should do that.

Current count:

Neu Berlin: 6

Lisboa: 2

Belgrade: 2

Everyone else: 1

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:18, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Splendid idea. I will incorporate that! ---Andrew who is to lazy to log in

Voting is officially closed. Neu Berlin is the next stop for the Games.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 02:52, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Hooray, thank you everyone else. May I do the RNG this time?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  02:57, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

yes i suppose you can.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 16:44, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Maps for the Revolutions of 1858
I will be adding some maps to allow users and mapmakers alike an easier time at this. Note to all, this is our 1848 analogue. I have tried not to hit nations too hard and many problems should be relatively harmless to sort out. Just don't solve them quickly. Thank you. Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:17, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Central Asia


This is the extent of the pro-Russian rebellions in Kazakhland, with mainly the more occupied north having revolters take to the streets. To make sure they fall in line with Russia - Russia will need to send a lot more colonisers to the west of the Urals - a high percentage of its population.

Europe


Europe is quite a bit more complex. There are revolts hitting multiple nations as well as established unions. The light yellow is the Prussians rebelling. All the pink is the Pro-Russian revolters but there is also light purple which is Pro-Ukrainian feelings and movements. The north is now completely Scandinavian.

Persia


Unfortunately, Persia was hit hard by the various revolters. Some even though of siding with the Levantines rather than try to stick next to a breaking nation. However, if Persia establishes peace with the states - then their military will come out unharmed and the nation will once more become a large power. If not, then the nation just might break apart at the seams. The Arabian Federation has grown in the last 5 years too.

Far East


The original tribes of the far east have seen a recent boom in technology and culture. With the Russians neglecting the far east - they were never moved or intergrated into Russian society. With the oncoming Russian immigrants, they became threatened and began to revolt for independence. They can be taken care of - their numbers are fairly small but the Russians will unfortunately need to use force. Diplomatic procedures will only make the post-tribal peoples stronger.

Antillia


The recent dynastic union has not sat well with tens of thousands of former Russian colonists. They decided to pack up and move to a freer and more open space. The thing is, tens of thousands more are debating moving, and if it is successful - they might join their brethren - leaving many jobs and houses unoccupied. The Neu Berliners might want to open up their borders to the mother nation if they are going to be able to fill up those spaces. However, the Cree have been feeling the same way and many have moved southward, where they helped the River Lakota people develop societies and formed their own. This has only recently come to the Neu Berliner attention after they send out scouts to see why so many natives were missing from their northwestern half of the nation.

Atlantia


C'mon folks, this looks cool. So, after a very long time gathering up followers and preaching in jungles and small native towns, A'Asabism has gained a large tribal and native following. Quite a few colonists too follow the religion, which has finally started to spread like wildfire in the more under developed parts of the colonies. The problem is, it cannot be stopped, not yet atleast and will keep on spreading - moving north.

Africa


Oh Africa. This is certainly not what the Orissans signed upto when they bought the colony from the Levantines who really needed the money. Not only has one of the Boer states broken away, it has taken the Levatine dominated vassal with it. However, the Boers need slaves and they need them quickly. The Tswana state's future isn't looking bright. The Zulu and Basotho peoples are getting worried and with the Gauls not exactly that powerful anymore, they might just have to band together into one native state and get ready.

Overall Map


So that is how it looks like overall folks. The world has suddenly become a lot more chaotic and violent. Things might not turn out as it was seeming before - far from it. I do have a prediction though...

On the other hand, things might go from this into even smaller states and some nations might end up collapsing. I hope that does not happen, but you never know.

Imp's Predictions



 * A man named Andre von Scrun is visiting different sections of his home country - Neu Berlin. A young man, he is starting to contemplate that it is Neu Berlin's destiny to get to the Pacific Coast. He writes his ideas in his book, the Scrunifest Destiny...
 * Italia and Germany might have those states rebelling, but something tells me they won't be losing complete control over them anytime soon. Direct control might be lost, but direct influence is still possible...
 * Russia is going to be focusing a lot more on the states which want to unite with it, as well as the ones breaking away. I, the omnipresent entity, feel they aren't going to be kind to the Far East. Trains full of colonists will probably begin to head east, although the nation might not expand for a while as it fixes up the situation.
 * A'Asab, ah the idiot I visited. Didn't take much for him to think he was the new messaiah. Although I have no clue which way he will take his followers too. He was powercrazy, he'll probably try to gain more followers and inspire more to join his cult.

'''These are Imp's views. Don't edit them, or he'll use his omnipresent powers on you :P'''
 * Persia and Orissa don't strike me as the nations which will do nothing as this chaos takes place. However, Persia will need to move to the negociating table now - to ensure they are still a major player in the region. The Kurds might have become too powerful, but those Shias are relatively new. Orissa on the other hand might just jump straight in to attack the Boers, but they have the Maori to think about too...
 * Neu Berlin might become more aggressive too. The Scrawrifest Destiny isn't that far off anyway. That native state and those Russian Boers better watch out. The Italian state south of it might catch wind of the idea too. Not one but two states following the Scrawrifest Destiny? This should be interesting...
 * With German nationalism at an all time high, people might remember that the Brits are pretty similar to themselves too. Although Poland and Slovakia will become freer and their own nations (kind of), the Germans are going to be angry.
 * Make that two. The Italians will need something to vent all their anger at too. Suddenly the Americas doesn't look that great anymore. Oh well, I'll still enjoy it from my omnipresent view. Although the world is going to probably become way more bloody.
 * Atlantia looks like a hotbed, maybe I should visit another idiot - see what that does. A little more chaos would be interesting to see.
 * Oh look, Ethiopia has got away from this - pretty suprisingly. Maybe I should pay a visit to the nation, get some anarchy going. More chaos couldn't hurt in Africa, could it?

Discussion
Don't mind the Imp's Prediction section - that's just me rambling. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:14, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I think Ethiopia should be experiencing something. If you look at any ethnic map of Africa, you will see that Ethiopia is spanning multiple regions of ethnic groups. Not to mention languages - Ethiopian is a pretty specific language. I just think that African cultural divisions are similar to the Germanic-Slavic struggles, and other things of that nature. 18:20, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well I dd have the Arabians flee who caused a lot of damage, which Ethiopia is fixing. The Ethiopians have been working on the nation's interior a lot. Perhaps Arabians causing more damage isn't out the question... Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:26, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. However, could Georgia get part of dying Persia? I want to build a massive Transcaucasia before creating a giant split! War! Bloodshed! Revolution! Roughly 1870s.

20:48, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Neu Berlin

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Neu Berlin (L), Kanada (M), Great Transcaucasia (M) = +10/4 = ~2
 * Military Development: +26/1 = 26
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Total: 82 + chance*1.1 industrial bonus = 90
 * Total: 82 + chance*1.1 industrial bonus = 90

River Lakota nation

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: River Lakota (L): 4/10 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/26 = 0
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:-0
 * Total: 21
 * Total: 21

Results
((90/(111))*2) - 1 = 0. 6126

61.26 * (1-1/(2*2)) = 45.945

Discussion
Regardless of chance, Neu Berlin deals a crushing blow to the fledgling River Lakota nation in one year. <p style="margin-top:0.4em;margin-bottom:0.5em;">I have not invaded Eiplec, I have invaded the new nation that Imp just created from Cree and Lakota refugees.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."   21:21, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Scrawrifes- Scrawi- Scra-

REALLY SCRAW. REALLY.

Imp came up with it, not me. :P 21:26, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, Sorry.

_* REALLY IMP. REALLY.

Imp, since the Lakota are a newly formed nation created from absolutely nothing, their industry is supposed to be rock bottom. I should have given myself a 1.8 bonus, but since you said they had some Neu Berlin technology, I went for 1.5 bonus. Regardless, I still pwn with 1.1 bonus. Any further tweaking will be cheating on your part. ;)

(And no, they don't get 1.5 bonus considering that they didn't revolt from anyone.)

18:48, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

Neu Berlin

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Neu Berlin (L), Kanada (M), Great Transcaucasia (M), River Lakota nation (MV) = +12/4 = 3
 * Military Development: +24/1 = 24
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Total: 85 + chance*1.5 industrial bonus = ~128
 * Total: 85 + chance*1.5 industrial bonus = ~128

Novaya Moskovii (the Russian exodus state)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Vinutella (L) = 4
 * Military Development: ~3
 * Economy: +5/2 = 2.5 ~3
 * Infrastructure: ~3
 * Expansion: -0
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: +4
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:-0
 * Total: 29*1.5 = 43.5 ~ 44
 * Total: 29*1.5 = 43.5 ~ 44

Results
(128/(128+29))*2 - 1 = 0.48837

48.83 * (1/1-(2*2)) = 36.62

Still regardless of chance, Neu Berlin deals a crushing blow to the Russians.

Discussion
You will need to remove this algorithm for now I'm afraid scraw. Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:42, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

Postponed to 1872, and all scores redone. 00:48, October 19, 2013 (UTC)



BEWARE!

A Name for a Large Union
Ok folks. The union of the United Maharajya and Imperium Africa are quite large. I require users to present me with naming options for this union. I have one or two, but I would appreciate if users could provide me with names. I will require users to follow the format I set for this. I thank thee!
 * Union of Axum and Bharat - [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!)
 * Union of Africana and the Maharajya- [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!)
 * Federated States of Abyssinia-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 15:20, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Imperial Federation of Africa-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 15:20, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * United East-African Federation-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 15:20, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grand East-African Union-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 16:33, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grand Union of Abyssinia-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 16:33, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Federal Union of (East) Africa-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 16:33, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * The United Imperium of Maharajya-Africa. David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 16:39, October 21, 2013 (UTC) (well... you said users... not players)
 * Asia Majora- CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 18:15, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Empire of Indithopia -Kogasa
 * The Grand Empire of Hinduthopia
 * Sankala Union Commandante Lemming (talk) 19:42, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Imperium of Life--  The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  21:59, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Imperial Indeoceanic Federation-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Union of the Indian Ocean-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Indo-African Federated Union -Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Indo-African Imperial Union-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Imperial Union of Indo-Africa-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Imperial Indeoceanic States-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Grand Union of Indeoceania-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 22:28, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Bullshit Empire of ASBia 22:42, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Please folks I kinda need naming options! :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:12, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Its fine for all users to comment (I did indeed Dave!)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:41, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Geddit? Imp? And Viva... which means life in several languages.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  21:59, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I like Scraw's better.

Just because you both like this idea doesn't mean it's any less bullshit. I agree with Scraw completely on this one. As they stand Orrisa and Ethiopia are way too powerful to unite. At least make them considerably smaller before you unite them.Yank 23:04, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

You could start releasing/selling some of your (both nations, that is) smaller territories. Hell, you could start an auction for colonies!

23:20, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

That was interesting. The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  00:00, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

You see I have something along the lines of a revolution planned and those colonies are going to start to become dominions soon. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:29, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

No, dominions are still not fair. You could keep some of your colonies, but probably at the cost of consolidating your other territories as well forking some land off to other players.

21:20, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

I see no reason why they must. But don't mind me, I'm just watching. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:26, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

1860 Olympics?
Weren't we supposed to have Olympics in 1860? We can punt to 1862 due to war concerns in Antillia since Neu Berlin is involved. Commandante Lemming (talk) 19:40, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

No the Olympic already happened. Scraw said he wanted to do the RNG for it, if he doesnt do it in the next turn I will do it. In the meantime we will go ahead and vote on the next locale.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 19:52, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

RNG: Sorry for being late.
 * 1) Russia
 * 2) Mayans
 * 3) Germany
 * 4) Selknam
 * 5) Cyrenacia
 * 6) Hungary
 * 7) Castille
 * 8) Neu Berlin
 * 9) Scandinavia
 * 10) Carthage
 * 11) Romania
 * 12) Gaul
 * 13) Africana
 * 14) Aragon
 * 15) Orissa
 * 16) Navarre
 * 17) Leon
 * 18) Portugal
 * 19) Nuovo Italia
 * 20) Suur Suomi
 * 21) Hellas
 * 22) Yugoslavia
 * 23) Pure Science
 * 24) Levantine
 * 25) Yagich Rafael
 * 26) Persia
 * 27) Italia

22:14, October 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just one thing: Navarra sent a team for those games.can i, or you, redo the RNG accounting for that?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:29, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, I got a number for Navarre from 1 to 27 and the number was 16. So Navarre is now 16.
 * 21:22, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

1864 Games.
Vote on the city you think should host the games next. Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 19:52, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

OK, we have five cities now, shall we begin the elimination process?
 * Germany Nominates: Moscow
 * Portugal nominates: Lisboa
 * Castille nominates: Toledo
 * Navarra nominates: Toledo
 * León nominates: Lisboa
 * Aragon nominates: Lisboa
 * Selk'nam Haruwin nominates: Yagich Rafael Yagich (been bidding agressively for for years in the text)
 * Yagich Rafael nominates: Yagich Rafael Yagich
 * United Maharajya: Yagich Rafael Yagich
 * Imperium Africana: Yagich Rafael Yagich
 * Neu Berlin: Venice

22:16, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Moscow

 * 1) Germany(Nominator)
 * 2) Russia
 * 3) Minsk
 * 4) Imperial Commonwealth of Australis

Lisboa

 * 1) Portugal(Nominator)
 * 2) Leon
 * 3) Aragon

Toledo

 * 1) Castille(Nominator)
 * 2) Navarra

Yagich Rafael Yagich

 * 1) Selk'nam Haruwin(Nominator)
 * 2) Yagich Rafael
 * 3) United Maharajya
 * 4) Imperium Africana
 * 5) Mayan Empire
 * 6) Praetorate of Pure Science

Venice

 * 1) Neu Berlin(Nominator)
 * 2) Hellenic Union
 * 3) Cyrenaica
 * 4) Nuovo Italia
 * 5) Italia
 * 6) Romania

Yagich Rafael Yagich

 * 1) Selk'nam Haruwin(Nominator)
 * 2) Yagich Rafael
 * 3) United Maharajya
 * 4) Imperium Africana
 * 5) Mayan Empire
 * 6) Praetorate of Pure Science
 * 7) Portugal
 * 8) Aragon
 * 9) León

Venice

 * 1) Neu Berlin(Nominator)
 * 2) Hellenic Union
 * 3) Cyrenaica
 * 4) Nuovo Italia
 * 5) Italia
 * 6) Romania
 * 7) Russia(Novgorod)
 * 8) Belorussia(Minsk)
 * 9) Yugoslavia
 * 10) Siam
 * 11) Aymara
 * 12) Germany
 * 13) Imperial Commonwealth of Australis

Discussion
k. I organized people who already put stuff in a more organized fashion...lets get voting started!-Lx (leave me a message) 22:34, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Since Venice and Yagich Rafael are tied, we'll have a second round only with them.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:29, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Do non-participating nations get votes? Siam and Aymara didn't send teams to previous games. Commandante Lemming (talk) 13:27, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

No.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:15, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

So then we need to eliminate Siam, Aymara, Belorussia, and Australis. I'd suggest voting by player instead of by nation but that would still leave us with a 4-4 tie. Do we want to broker some sort of deal? Maybe set the two cities as the locations for the next two games? The current score  is that each side has four players, I have a 10-9 lead on votes from Olympic participants but Venice has a lead when non-participant votes are counted. Commandante Lemming (talk) 19:51, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

We better do it, since the voting needs to end in 40 minutes.So, Venice does the games in 1864 and Yagich Rafael does them in 1868.Can i do the RNG this time?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:20, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Works for me - Venice 1864, YRY 1868. Commandante Lemming (talk) 20:22, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

20 minutes 10 minutes left.

Clock is ticking, remaining players! Clock... is... TICKING!!!--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:40, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! :-P Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:03, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

So, nobody else voted, voting is closed, the arrangement proposed by me and Lemming will take place, then.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:05, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Standings
Well, i suggested that i did the RNG this time.i consider that is got to be done by today, and since nobody contested my suggestion:


 * 1) Castille
 * 2) Persia
 * 3) Navarra
 * 4) Hellas
 * 5) Portugal
 * 6) Italia
 * 7) Gaul
 * 8) Russia
 * 9) Romania
 * 10) Maya
 * 11) Yugoslavia
 * 12) Imperium Africana
 * 13) Orissa
 * 14) Hungary
 * 15) Selk'nam
 * 16) Scandinavia
 * 17) Yagich Rafael
 * 18) León
 * 19) Suur Suomi
 * 20) Levantine
 * 21) Aragon
 * 22) Cyrenacia
 * 23) Nuovo Italia
 * 24) Preorate of Pure Science
 * 25) Germany
 * 26) Neu Berlin
 * 27) Carthage

Timestamp: 2013-10-24 16:11:45 UTC

If somebody else joined in for 1864 and i didn't know, tell me.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:24, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Bad News
It is with great sorrow that I must inform you all. That the famous Principia Moderni map... Will be retired for PMIII. I am hunting for a base map that has some of the clear geographical and OTL division so as to increase the accuracy of the map. I will get back to you all when I find one worthy of PMIII. Scandinator (talk) 11:16, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Shame, though I guess it's for the best. If you want some reference, these maps are pretty good, barring the lack of most Italian states. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 16:17, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....ok. 18:46, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

There was an offical PM map...?

So? I honestly don't care about the map. As long as the change is made to improve the game then there's no harm to it. Yank 18:29, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Alas, poor map. I knew him (and its predecessors) well.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:42, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Well, as long the next map is still editable by MS Paint...--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:42, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, Hamlet. But you know, Hamlet never said he knew Yorick well, just that he knew him.

So it should be "Alas, poor map. I knew him (and his predecessors)."

I know, but i thought that adding the "well" summed up the rest of the quote well.After all, i couldn't quote the full phrase without running into something that was uncomparable to the situation.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:07, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

New Rule Proposal
Hi all. I just wanted to propose a new rule I thought up recently. Now, if you look at the map in places like South America and Africa, you'll see that colonies such as Portuguese Brasil have created lots of little circles inside them which are not occupied by any nation. Now, quite frankly, this is a pain in the neck. What I'm proposing is that we allow a user to take any black land within its borders so long as the amount of land gained is less than 100,000 sqkm. However, it can only be done once every ten years and will be a -1 penalty in the algorithm. This is just to prevent the mass unoccupied land problems we suffered in original PM. In 2010, we still had black land. This is something that should not be repeated.

18:34, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. The idea that there could still be unoccupied land in the new millenium is absolutely absurd. Even Antarctica has a very minor human population. Yank 18:36, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

This will not be a problem because users will eventually get 128000km expansion per year and this problem will end up sorting itself out. Therefore I think this rule is pointless and means users have to have a penalty when there is not the need for one. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:58, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and that will be in the 1900s, and even as late as the 1950s, when decolonization should be starting. Not to mention that few people make it that far with colonies.

19:09, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

That makes sense. I support this idea. Oh, and I'm back by the way. Quake before my presence. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:29, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll support it. It makes perfect sense, when you think about it. There's no real sense in having these uninhabited lands if no one else can make a claim to them. CourageousLife (talk) 20:13, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Also, can I suggest a rule about famous people? They often shape history a lot...

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  21:49, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Andrew, I don't think you understand what I'm saying here, lol. Viva, please explain.

21:36, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Support

 * 21:40, October 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 21:43, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

 * [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:01, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see the need for this rule when we are already have expansion rules that fix that. Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 17:04, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * While I support the rule, I foresee many issues where players may exploit it. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:12, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Apostolic Prime Bishop Election 1866
Members: Selk'nam, Yagich Rafael (Lemming),Tojiko (Kogasa), Wales (Mod?), Lakin (Courageous), Apache Empire (Grantzu)

Candidates: Bishop Elmo Hgichin'YagichPugh'I'Alaclufin'Gunnunichin of Yagich Pugh (Selk'nam), Brother Thomas (Apache) (add more if desired)

Votes:

Lemming: Brother Thomas

Kogasa: Bishop Elmo Hgichin'YagichPugh'I'Alaclufin'Gunnunichin

Grantzu: Brother Thomas (if I can vote for myself if not Bishop Elmo)

Courageous: Bishop Elmo Hgichin'YagichPugh'I'Alaclufin'Gunnuichin

Wales (if any):

Round 2 - vote under candidate's name 

Brother Thomas:

Commandante Lemming (talk) 22:35, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

-Kogasa

Scandinator (talk)

Bishop Elmo

CourageousLife (talk) 04:12, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

1868 Yagich Rafael Olympics
Would someone mind doing the randomization for me? Collie maybe? Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:38, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oh and I think China is our only new country unless the Apache are in.

I'll do it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:54, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

I explained this twice already from the last games. The Imperial Commonwealth of Australis is in the games.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 17:00, October 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * You should have said it, then.You weren't in the 1860 games, and i told anybody whose nation was in the 1864 Olympic but wasn't in the 1864 standings to warn me about that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:09, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

If we're going to keep doing these - we probably should make a master list of participants that we keep up at the top along with the religion and industry maps. Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:02, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Good Idea, I will post the master list up near the map. ThanksTrust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 17:05, October 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) Neu Berlin
 * 2) Yagich Rafael
 * 3) Aragon
 * 4) Castille
 * 5) Imperium Africana
 * 6) Portugal
 * 7) Cyrenaica
 * 8) Hungary
 * 9) Preorate of Pure Science
 * 10) Selk'nam
 * 11) Suur Suomi
 * 12) Australis
 * 13) Gaul
 * 14) Italia
 * 15) Germany
 * 16) Scandinavia
 * 17) Yugoslavia
 * 18) Levantine
 * 19) Nuovo Italia
 * 20) Romania
 * 21) Carthage
 * 22) Maya
 * 23) Persia
 * 24) Russia
 * 25) Navarra
 * 26) León
 * 27) China
 * 28) Hellas
 * 29) Orissa

Timestamp: 2013-10-27 21:52:20 UTC

1872 Olympics Voting
Selk'nam Haruwin nominates: Lisboa, Portugal

Yagich Rafael nominates: Lisboa

Praetorate of Pure Science nominates: Lisboa

Hellenic Union nominates: Venice

Cyrenaica nominates: Venice

Tamania nominates: Venice

Athamos nominates: Venice

Neu Berlin nominates: Beijing

China nominates: Beijing

Portugal nominates: Lisboa

Germany nominates: Lisboa

Imperial Commonwealth of Australis nominates: Lisboa

Italia nominates: Belgrade

Yugoslavia nominates: Belgrade

Romania nominates: Belgrade

Hungary nominates: Belgrade

Levantine nominates: Belgrade

United Maharajya: Kolkata

Imperium Africana: Kolkata

Umm...Venice had it just 4 years ago. Something tells me the good citizens of that city likely don't want it again. If you want to vote for Italia somewhere else might be better. Commandante Lemming (talk) 01:35, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Do vassals and colonies get a vote, anyway? CourageousLife (talk) 03:05, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Not exactly.only the nations that are going to participate in the Games vote.So, this means that Athamos and Tamania's votes are invalid, since they aren't part of the Games.But if your nation is a vassal and participates in the Games, you can vote with it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:38, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Let's make a rule like OTL olympics, the same player can not host the olympics more than once every 10 years.-Lx (leave me a message) 14:53, October 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Erm *12 years. Lets make it more precise. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:12, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * And the same city can't host the Games twice in less than 20 years.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:02, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12 years is better I guess...ya, host one, then your nations have to skip 3 olympics, and since there are more than four player-nations in olympics, this should be fine.-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 02:01, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

I concur, it ensures everyone has a fair and more equal shot at hosting. If none can come up with a good counter argument. By the powers vested in me by the Olympic Committee, I will add this to the list of Olympic rules( I plan on drafting a rule set that will be posted toward the top of the page) and rule can be discussed and voted on.Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 15:59, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

I'm also going to say after this vote we implement the Top 5 rule we talked about to limit the contenders to the Top 5 finishers - that will give it some meaning AND result in some pretty hilarious votes. Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:30, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry had a brainfart :X Though Tamania and Athamos are independent now, why can't they compete? Airlinesguy (talk) 23:55, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Because they aren't in the list of participating nations.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:01, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

First Elimination Round

 * Lisboa
 * Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:27, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:58, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Beijing
 * 21:18, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * -Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 02:01, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * CourageousLife (talk) 02:42, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yank 17:20, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 20:11, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Belgrade
 * Kolkata
 * [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:45, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Airlinesguy (talk) 23:55, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 18:00, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 18:00, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Some Dispute
I think we need to give Octi a short ban. He's been acting like a spoiled child recently. Here's a list of his sins. --Yank 17:26, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) He tried to vassalize teo nations in too little time.
 * 2) He tried to establish THREE colonies in one turn.
 * 3) He vandalized the talkpage.

I'll move the whole thing to the takpage to make the page less cluttered. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:27, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

The argument.

'SURE BIASES AGAINST ME AGAIN! WHY ARE THESE SO COMMON? THIS GAME IS RUN BY A BUNCH OF BIAS FREAKS. STOP. I DO NOT LIKE IT! I FOLLOW ALL THE RULES BUT ALL THE FREAKS WHO RUN THIS DO NOT ACCEPT MY RULE-FOLLOWING, THEY JUST COME UP WITH EXCUSES. IT NEEDS TO STOP! I get it. I can be implausible BUT THAT IS NO EXCUSE!Oct-is-Harassed-By-PMII-Mods (talk) 

'''You followed nothing. Not only does vassalization take at least five years, but both nations are under Italy's control and protection. Deal with your own nation instead of trying to steal from others. And this all just sounds to everyone as you throwing a temper tantrum for not getting what you want. Grow up already.'''

'''And I'm pretty sure it is, considering the arrogance he has shown last turn when we said his actions were implausible. Also, considering that this guy has a history of being implausible (remember when he was Novorossiya and he claimed to have expanded from Arkansas to Minnesota in one year?), and the fact that he ran through three or two nations in 15 years and none of his nations were destroyed for him to be allowed to do so...'''

'''Although I agree that Oct is  Implausible most of the time, I don't think that he shouldn't be allowed to have a colony in Greenland. Welsh and Irish vassalage is implausible but colonialism is not so much. ~Sine (probably)'''


 * In itself, it wouldn't be implausible.However, he apparently tried to estabilish three colonies in one year (one for him and two for each of his vassals), judging by the wording of his 1868 post.

'''I read the rules before every turn. I quit New Russia because none of the players would welcome me, take me into their alliances. They mostly just left me there. That is the main reason why I keep on switching nations. Arkansas to Minnesota, LOL. That was fun. I read the rules to find obvious loopholes, and then you guys ignore me. You guys need to recognize how I follow the rules, but when it works against you your biases kick in and boom. DON'T FOLLOW it! Sine has been the only nice person who has been willing to help me. ~Oct'''

'''You not only tried to vassalize two nations in too short a period, but you tried to establish THREE colonies in one turn. This isn't like any game you've played before. We follow the rules here. ~Yank'''

'''Preach it Bro! ;) *cough* Imp'''

'''I agree that it is implausible BUT I HAVE FOLLOWED ALL THE RULES. No questions asked. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM '''

That is pretty much it.

Discussion
I don't know if my input counts. But he does need to be banned for a time, back when he played as Switzerland, he made a hairbrained attack on Bavaria, then complained when he lost, then vandalized the talk page by changing the name from the Swiss Failures( meaning a failed invasion) to the " Swiss are better than you". In my opinion he is immature and needs to be reproached. Trust Me, I'm The Doctor (talk) 17:51, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Everyone's input counts Andrew. I am just standing as the neutral mod who will deliver the message to Oct if he needs to be banned or tells him that he can continue to play but needs to simmer down a bit. He really isn't that bad and PMII does help better game plausibility. Those who play PMII properly soon get a reputation for being plausible map gamers. Fact. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:57, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I agree on this one. That invasion of Bavaria was a sign of things to come, and looking at it now, if he read the rules every day, then he showed have known about the fact that nations can only be vassalized over a period of five turns, and that only two colonies can be established once every fifty years. So this may show that he may have known, yet ignored those rules in spite of what the mods stated. Vivaporius "I don't need a slogan" 17:55, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

SURE THEN I CAN'T EVEN STATE A DEFENSE. DICATATORSHIP.

Also i am on chat if u really want to talk about it. ~OM

What you added to the page was not remotely funny. Never do that again. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:11, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Imp just hop on chat if u really care. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

I will state my offensives and defense with qoutes from me or the rules. FROM
 * 1) Swiss-Barvarian conflict-LOL that was fun
 * 2) Novo Russian expansion rate- Plusible if aster 5 turns of stright expansion directly up the Misssipi
 * 3) Vassalization- RULE QTOTE " It should take four to five turns  at least  to vassalize a state. The farther away the potential vassal from your home nation's heartlands the longer it will take to vassalize. Furthermore, the religion, culture and geopolitics of a region will effect how long it takes to vassalize or if vassalizing is even plausible. " Scotland took 4 turns, and they are really close.
 * 4) Greenland Colinazation- RULE QOUTE ", nor do limits on the number of total colonies" next RULE QUOTE "Only two new colonies are allowed per 50 year period." Nothing said about vassals
 * 5) Switching Nations- No one will ally with me treat me well and u guys just pretend i am not her

<font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

Coolest person on here

Best Profile

Player as Scotland, Its vassals, and Colonies (PMII)

Player of the Kingdom of Italy (FreakenMapGame)

You forgot that the very rule you quoted says that at it requires 5 years AT LEAST. you still neeeded at minimum one more year to vassalize them. You cherrypick what rules you follow and mangle everything else to suit your needs. The fact that you are used to map games with lax mod leadership doesn't entitle you to whine when you aren't allowed to do that here. The map game doesn't need you here. If you don't like the enforcement of the essential rules, then you should leave for one of the lax map games. Yank 20:13, October 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * But again, he is ignoring the fact that he still cannot have Ireland.he spent only three years vassalizing it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:57, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am sorry about Ireland, i would be happy too accept Ierland as a vassal now, I honestly tought it was 4 turns. I kind feel like yank is trying to be reallu harsh on me.

Ban him I say.

21:16, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

"...four to five years at least." You didn't even make the attempt to get to the lowest required number of years. If you did, the mods wouldn't have been as harsh about the matter. Scotlan's come close to defeating England a number of times. Heck, they nearly took London. So Scotland vassalizing the other states in Britain would have been plausible. However, you didn't even try to make the five-year requirement, and just ignored it. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:42, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Wales I did, I thought for ireland.

Also, Italy isn't united yet in Cthulhu Sleeps (I presume that's what he's referring to with "FreakenMapGame")

The Mighty Guns is too EXTREMLY lazy to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  23:07, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

I WANT A RESPOSE FAST SO I CAN POST MY TURN  <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

You get nothing. Quit mangling rules to your favor or there will be consequences. Yank 14:01, October 30, 2013 (UTC)