Talk:Explorers 1452 (Map Game)

Question: Shouldn't we explore AND colonize on the same turn? I believe it has more sense. Fedelede 03:46, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Answer: Fine, I just wanted some challanges for the map game to make it unique. Duchland 03:47, July 21, 2010 (UTC)Duchland

When does this game begin? Ownerzmcown 18:03, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Any time you care to start it. I tried to contact Duchland about this earlier. He made no response and I'm starting to get the impression he may be inactive.--Emperor of Trebizond 19:53, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

So can we just start it already then? Ownerzmcown 20:41, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yes.--Emperor of Trebizond 20:51, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Due to the number of unclaimed nations, should we allow users to choose two nations per person? It would make slightly more sense that way.--Emperor of Trebizond 21:27, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

It would be nice, especially since all the games I've played where you could only be one natiion devolved into 3 or 4 superpowers that were afraid to go to war with one another. I'm all for it.

BoredMatt 21:42, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

All right, then. Any user who does not already control two nations may pick any two from the list of unclaimed nations on the main page. Any player who already has claimed one nation may pick one more. We'll see how this works out.--Emperor of Trebizond 21:47, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Should every nation get one turn before we end the year? If there are nations belonging to inactive users or are unclaimed, we could just leave an empty space there for them.--Emperor of Trebizond 22:06, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Here is what I propose for the turns. Unoccupied countries or nations led by inactive users can be invaded. If no resistance is made by said inactive users or the nation is unclaimed, you can conquer it in a plausible amount of time. Remember, the population will be angry about this, and after completely annexing a nation players must explain how they deal with the entire populance. There are several options: Suppress them by force, massacre them, deport them, leave them as they are, etc.

We currently have four (Possibly five) active players. Once eight turns are made, we can move on to the next year. This includes the turns of two separate nations controlled by one player. Of course, I want approval for this turn system before we can put it into effect. What does everyone think? --Emperor of Trebizond 21:55, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I am interested in joining this, can I just claim a nation and jump right in? Or is there some sort of procedure? I would like to play Aragon, and maybe another nation. Keperry 08:12, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

You may choose two nations, max. Otherwise, go right ahead! Remember, it must be realistic.--Emperor of Trebizond 11:07, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Why doesn't the map show my second country, Muscovy? Ownerzmcown 00:57, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

It DOES show Muscovy. It's the small yellow blob in central Russia Fedelede 01:22, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone upload a map for the year? Keperry 01:51, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

I will, in about another four hours or so. Just be patient.--Emperor of Trebizond 02:01, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Really? I though it was that big white thing in the north? Ownerzmcown 02:09, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

No, that's the Novgorod Republic. Fedelede 02:16, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

what does the very light green areas on the map mean? (octiman10 20:23, October 9, 2010 (UTC))

Minor and/or tribal groups that, while not as powerful or technologically advanced as the colored nations, are still united and a regional power. BoredMatt 20:39, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

thanks (octiman10 21:03, October 9, 2010 (UTC))

In Africa the maps don't appear to be accurate. The English colony is in Liberia and Cote d'Ivoire, not Liberia and Sierra Leone where it should be, and the Aragonese colony that is supposed to be Abidjan is nowhere near Abidjan, closer to Accra or Lome. Keperry 17:24, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

I'll correct these mistakes the next time I get a new map up.--Emperor of Trebizond 18:38, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

dont forget that the marmluks ceded judea to the ottomans. (octiman10 01:39, October 12, 2010 (UTC))

I miss something every once in a while. Thanks for reminding me! I'll change the map.--Emperor of Trebizond 01:46, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

thanks and i forgot befor, that i also founded a colony in south africa, thanks again. (octiman10 19:24, October 12, 2010 (UTC))

I'll add it to the map. By the way, it is unrealistic to conquer all of South Africa in one year, judging by the tiny size of the colony. I would say in about five-six years from now at the least, and that would be possible.--Emperor of Trebizond 21:17, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

k, ill change it up

scrath that i just relized you did (octiman10 21:21, October 12, 2010 (UTC))

What do I do now? I've offered PL an alliance, but the person who plays as PL seems to be inactive. Ownerzmcown 22:07, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, I suppose. I invaded them in Turn No. 2, and they didn't react. I'm still waiting. BoredMatt 22:18, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

What exactly are the terms of the English deal offered to Portugal and which African colony are they considering ceding to Trebizond?--Emperor of Trebizond 23:10, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

The English have a colony at OTL Sherbro Island and the surrounding mainland (all of Seirra Leone and a bit of Guinea) that they are offering to Trebizond in exchange for no tarriffs and complete free trade in Trebizond's territory.

BoredMatt 23:15, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

just curious, were are the Hapsburg lands? (24.2.210.128 20:53, October 13, 2010 (UTC))

octiman10

Habsburg owns modern-day Austria.--Emperor of Trebizond 01:20, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, how come Britain owns Oregon if it is not explored yet? Fedelede 00:59, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Because User:BoredMatt thinks that so many implausible things are going on in this map game that doing that won't make any difference.--Emperor of Trebizond 01:18, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Well, BoredMatt is wrong. It is the most implausible thing here, meaning that if he complains about implausibility, he is the worse. Fedelede 12:38, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

It is not at all implausible. If the English had access to schooners, then they could have easily explored up the Pacific coast. I admit that it is implausible that they would have colonized that much land if that was the only irregularity in the game; but if the Kalmar Union can colonize Newfoundland in a single year, or that they could design, build, and test a top-sail schooner in around 3 years (the first one was made in 1713 OTL), then I do believe that it is plausible.

BoredMatt 19:25, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

But, even if it's not the only implausibility, it is the worse. What about if we make the Kalmar Union eliminate the schooner idea? Fedelede 19:28, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Well, we could put it to a vote. Are you two in favor of this? I can contact all the map game players and ask them for their opinion here.--Emperor of Trebizond 22:40, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

The Mamluks ceded the strip of land in arabia on the east coast and the little bit of land on the southern part of the penisula they have to the ottomans. (octiman10 00:15, October 17, 2010 (UTC))

The Irish are going to cecede from England because of events similar to the American Revolution. CrimsonAssassin 12:40, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

We need a negotiation page.CrimsonAssassin 18:30, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Why?--Emperor of Trebizond 19:05, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

We need a negotiation page so the negotiators can negotiate there and the discussion is for implausibility claims and other problems.

Fine. Here it is: Negotiation Page (Explorers 1452 Map Game)‎.--Emperor of Trebizond 20:33, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Yaaaaaaaaaay! Thank you!

To create a trade route or trade agreement, that nation must go to the negotiations page for the explorers map game. Duchland 23:28, October 19, 2010 (UTC)Duchland

Duchland, don't change the edit I made to your post. You wrote an implausible post about Poland-Lithuania sailing to the other side of the Earth in one year, with one fleet that didn't even have to stop to winter and were venturing into an unknown territory. That would take at the least two years to establish a colony in South Africa. They would then have to stop there, build a colony, and use it as a base to get to India overtime. Now Poland-Lithuania has only one colony, the one it is plausible by now to have in South Africa, which you posted several turns ago.--Emperor of Trebizond 23:31, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, thank you for correcting my mistakes. I cant belive I made this game and said be plausible and then look at my latest edits...how ironic of me. I am sorry for this and hope that the same mistake dosent repeats itself. Duchland 23:52, October 19, 2010 (UTC)Duchland

You know what? I leave this game. If everyone is against me, burn Florence! I don't care. Fedelede 21:33, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

The Turks have sided with you. And the pope is giving you a chance to back down so that the attacking forces will withdraw from Florence. I removed the post about destroying it in one year. You can still defend yourself.--Emperor of Trebizond 21:39, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Or you can make peace with everyone. CrimsonAssassin 22:08, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

^ I like that. BoredMatt 22:09, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

I might be stubborn, but I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY AMERICAN COLONIES. Understand? Fedelede 22:13, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

As with most world wars between powers on these map games, this is going to be a war of atrittion. When fighting against the most powerful nations of Western Christiandom versus a single powerful Italian city-state, one would think that France, England, Portugal, and Ireland might win, simply because they can lose more men than Florence can. Combined with the fact that your forces are forced to be divided between the Mediterranean and the Americas because of Portuguese fortification of Gibraltar, one in your position might be well inclined to give in to our demands. BoredMatt 22:15, October 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * The pope has offered the following (accepted) terms to Florence:


 * All European troops to withdraw from Florence itself.
 * Corsica to be granted to the French.
 * The Papal States to cease excommunication of the Florentines and issue a notice declaring the war over.
 * Florence to pay its proposed tribute to each of its Catholic enemies in the war. (Ireland, England, France, and Portugal).
 * Florence to pay half its proposed tribute to the Papal States, since the pope will let them keep some measure of wealth to rebuild.
 * Florence agrees to fund any Crusades in the future.

England, you can opt to drop out of the war now, or continue on alone. The pope has no direct control over the English and they can thus decide what they want. If France or Portugal are still not appeased, they will have to bring the matter up with the pope himself.--Emperor of Trebizond 22:35, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

English Terms:

Florentine holdings from Barranquilla to the Orinoco River Delta shall be ceded to England.

Florentine California may be kept by Florence under the conditions that it is demilitarized.

Portuguese Terms:

Florentine holdings from The Orinoco delta eastward are to be ceded to Portugal.

I think it's pretty reasonable, but that's just me.

BoredMatt 22:53, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

One word: no. Fedelede 22:55, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Castile can tip the scales against Portugal and land-grabbing England, due to their power and size. The Papacy has withdrawn from hostilities, encouraging France and Ireland to do the same, so now the odds are evened a bit in a Castile-Florence against Portugal-England war.--Emperor of Trebizond 00:46, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well, this is an impass. Ireland has a crucial trade route with Castille that I don't want ended. However, I have a temporary alliance with England (let's make it until 1476). I am obligated to protect England. Please don't launch a war. Can we have peace for a little while? CrimsonAssassin 01:05, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Not as long as User:Boredmatt is satisfied. He basically wants all the Florentine lands in the Americas for England, which will turn the English into the greatest American colonial power of Europe. It will drive all the other nations out of the water in the quest for the New World.

We can blame this on the English king's greed, perhaps, but Florence should at least be allowed to keep something major. This war could go on for a century unless the two agree to some sort of compromise.--Emperor of Trebizond 08:10, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Peace treaty as follows:

To the Florentines:

The English African colonies.

Southwestern British California

To the Castillians:

OTL North Carolina and all english settlement to the south, excluding the Appalachian lands.

The Portuguese African Colony.

The Portuguese colony at Galveston Bay.

Again, I find it pretty reasonable. It's up to you, of course, but I still haven't even fought back yet. BoredMatt 21:37, October 21, 2010 (UTC) Does the Californian part I get will connect my two Californian colonies, right?

Well, I have a counter-offer to you. I accept that, but so that it is win-lose for both of us, I'll give you the remainder of the Florentine surplus, which I believe would be about 5,000,000 gold Florins. Deal? Fedelede 21:51, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

A fair deal. your amendment to the original offer is accepted. BoredMatt 21:57, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Is it cool if I join in as the Hapsburg? I assume I would just post where you are now. I would alo like to know the names of tthe nations surrounding Hapsburg, if that's cool with you guys. Azecreth 23:28, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Habsburg is modern day Austria. Venice is to the south, and Poland-Lithuania to the northeast. The smaller German states surround it.--Emperor of Trebizond 23:32, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Question:
How did England colonize the west coast of North America without discovering the route to get there first?Oerwinde 18:08, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

If top-sail schooners were invented, then you could go just about anywere. It wouldn't take very long at all for the west coast to be discovered.


 * A)It was 300 years early for those, and B)They would still have to discover the route to get there first. Early invention of a ship doesn't mean magical teleportation.Oerwinde 17:43, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Map

 * I undid the latest revision to the map game because it was such a poor quality map that was uploaded. It was blurred, stretched, and only a photograph of the map instead of the real image. Plus, it was outdated and inaccurate, based on removed information. The map set Aztec borders at Oklahoma. This displays an ignorance of Texan geography. Does anyone have any idea how much land space the Aztecs would have to occupy in a year to get there? Even if they faced no credible resistance, they would have trouble conquering that much countryside and plains and occupying it even in two years.--Emperor of Trebizond 21:09, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody was recording, much less paying attention to how they had expanded. I had posted over the span of several turns the progression of the empire. This is what happened in order of date.
 * Aztecs expand to Rio Grande- nobody recorded that
 * Aztecs expand southward- Unrecorded
 * Aztecs go to Baja Mexico- Recorded
 * Aztec borders come up to the Rio Grande- Unrecorded
 * Aztecs expand to Oklahoma- Unrecorded
 * Aztecs expand to southern Kansas- unrecorded.
 * Aztecs expand southward to Panama- unrecorded
 * Unless someone's been editing my posts and deleting plausible, legitimate posts, which is VANDALISM.
 * And to the poor quality: my computer wouldn't import the image I made from Gimp, so I had to take a screenshot and cut away the edges so my desktop wasn't showing in the picture. Stupid Mac. CrimsonAssassin 21:24, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * What IS Baja Mexico anyway? I know Baja California, but not Baja Mexico. Oh, and you expanding to Oklahoma and Kansas in a year is implausible.
 * Fedelede 21:51, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also this things that they haven't recorded:
 * Florentines conquest most of Central America
 * Florentines expand in Bengal and Malacca
 * Florentines start that settlement building in the 1840 OTL Mexican-American border.
 * Florentines recuperate the Central American lands. Remember all those innocent Aztecs? Fedelede 21:51, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also this things that they haven't recorded:
 * Florentines conquest most of Central America
 * Florentines expand in Bengal and Malacca
 * Florentines start that settlement building in the 1840 OTL Mexican-American border.
 * Florentines recuperate the Central American lands. Remember all those innocent Aztecs? Fedelede 21:51, October 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Be patient. I will have the updated map uploaded around the same time I uploaded them yesterday.--Emperor of Trebizond 22:09, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * That peninsula under California is Baja Mexico.
 * You can have central america if you stay out of this war. This war is so Ireland can have territory in America. I'm bored with my Aztecs. I just want to transfer ownerships of territory between my two nations. I lose nothing in the process, and maybe I'll start another empire later on in the game.
 * That's not Baja Mexico. It's Baja California (which, if you knew Spanish, you would know it means "lower California"). And I will attack the Aztecs too. It was you who declared war against me and this is a Florentine vendetta war too. Fedelede 22:21, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aztecs surrendered. V is no longer for Vendetta, my friend. V is for Victory. You get a good share of the Aztec's land. Let's stop hostilities. Wanna trade again? CrimsonAssassin 22:40, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Hmm... I liked the heated response I wrote to you in the negotiation page. Fedelede 22:43, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dude, it is a baaad idea to call an Irishman a coward. Kind of offensive, but as long as there's beer flying and not cannonballs, I'm happy.
 * Aztecs surrendered. V is no longer for Vendetta, my friend. V is for Victory. You get a good share of the Aztec's land. Let's stop hostilities. Wanna trade again? CrimsonAssassin 22:40, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Hmm... I liked the heated response I wrote to you in the negotiation page. Fedelede 22:43, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dude, it is a baaad idea to call an Irishman a coward. Kind of offensive, but as long as there's beer flying and not cannonballs, I'm happy.
 * Dude, it is a baaad idea to call an Irishman a coward. Kind of offensive, but as long as there's beer flying and not cannonballs, I'm happy.

England broke away from the Church?
Everyone thinks that the Anglican church already existed. But no. Henry the VIII hasn't been BORN yet. Nor has Luther. That means that NO sort of Protestantism exist. Not Hussites, not Lutherans, not Calvinists, not Anglicans. Only the Lombard Church (the one Lorenzo I de' Medici was after he parted from the church) exists, and it has like only like a 20% of the Florentine population, and only exists in Florence. To resume: There are only two important Christianisms present in Europe: East Orthodox and Roman Catholic. Fedelede 22:26, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

.......I never assumed that it did exist. Where does the Map Game mention the Anglicans? BoredMatt 22:49, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

"Ireland: I was talking about the Doge of Florence. Piero de' Lorenzo. I respect the Pope highly. I was saying that I don't want Florence in on the goodies. Besides, you should talk, England. You broke from the Church and came back when we saved you." Fedelede 22:54, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Sorry! BoredMatt 22:59, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

China
No one is getting colonies in China yet. It's a little implausible. People conquering such a major place as Shanghai and such makes no sense. Players on this map game seem to be grossly underestimating the Chinese from this time period. In the 1600's, the Dutch army invaded Taiwan with artillery and advanced modern gunpowder, and yet they were still crushed by the 'medieval' Chinese and forced to surrender. Their fleet was also destroyed by the Chinese navy, as well.

If the Dutch failed OTL with gun technology from two hundred years from now against the Chinese, it will be a massacre if any European or other nation, even an empire tries to occupy any part of China.--Emperor of Trebizond 10:30, October 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe we can agree to something like this: Anything in the East China Sea (Japan, islands, Taiwan, China, etc.) is off limits until 1510. I am disgusted that players believe they can just take any part of China they want, especially a major city, and let it go unnoticed. Even back then, China had a massive population and the sheer weight of an army alone would crush any tiny colonist or landing force, even large military units.--Emperor of Trebizond 10:57, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ryuku was an independent kingdom up till 1480; I think that having England take it is plausible. BoredMatt 12:36, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ryuku was an independent kingdom up till 1480; I think that having England take it is plausible. BoredMatt 12:36, October 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * England getting that far in one year is implausible. I'm not saying they didn't have advanced or fast ships; I'm saying if you have no idea where you are going or what's even out there, it would take more than a year to find that. And they would surely reach other islands first. There are islands in the Pacific between the map game's English colonies and Ryuku.--Emperor of Trebizond 19:27, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ryuku was conquered by 2,000 troops armed with swords and arrows in the 1600's. I think that the marine contingent of several schooners could secure the capital, take the royal family hostage, and wait for reinforcements. Also, Hawaii, Polenesia, etc. are far to the south of the latitudes where the English colony in Oregon is; one would have to purposely sail southward to reach them. Also, they would have a general idea of where to go; one could surmise that finding another route to Cathay would be considered the Holy Grail to mariners at this time, and you would have to come in sight of Ryuku or a Ryukuan ship on their way to China (or else they would end up in a Japanese or Sulu port, in which case they would probably set up a foriegn quarter there for them to operate in).
 * BoredMatt 21:40, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * BoredMatt 21:40, October 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Even so, they would have to travel thousands of miles to get there across a huge stretch of unexplored and totally unknown ocean, and that would be a rough idea at that of where they were going. How would they occupy all of those islands? They can certainly claim them, but are outnumbered by the native population, know absolutely nothing about the islands, their shapes, how to navigate through them, and what's on them. Besides, now with a Scramble for Africa and America I'm not sure we should open up this part of Asia just yet. Much of it remained unexplored and unknown throughout the 15-1600's; even after America was discovered. It seems a little too presumptuous to have them exploited and opened up so soon. I'm all in favor of postponing this, at the least, to 1510, so it will seem slightly more plausible, however little anyone may think that will have.


 * I'm not completely against the idea of the English finding this islands, I just don't users to go overboard once this new discovery happens for one player and begin claiming every part of the vast Australian and western Asian continent (In fact, colonizing southern Australia has already been posted, had I not removed that implausibility).--Emperor of Trebizond 22:45, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

Tenth Crusade
For the record, here are the nations participating in the Tenth Crusade:


 * Papal States (Leading)
 * Florence
 * Castile
 * England
 * Ireland
 * Hapsburg
 * Knights of the Vatican (Crusading Order)
 * Knights of Augusto (Crusading Order)
 * Knights of St. Andrew (Crusading Order)
 * Objectives: Capture Jerusalem; Recapture Cyprus, Drive Egyptians from Rhodes

These are the nations participating in the Jihad against the Crusade:

--Emperor of Trebizond 15:16, October 24, 2010 (UTC
 * Ottoman Empire (Peaced out)
 * Mamluk Sultanate

Irish Map

 * Sorry if I didn't grant the Irish The Pale when they first appeared as a nation, for some reason it didn't come to mind. Expect it to be on the next map I upload.--Emperor of Trebizond 19:36, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to blame it on you, lol. It's fine, I hadn't caught it at the time. BoredMatt 19:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys. CrimsonAssassin 20:24, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Scottish invasion of England

 * 1) The English army is in England; the Knights are a seperate entity entirely. Not to mention that it's a tad assholish to invade while troops are away fighting in the name of God. How many men does Scotland have, exactly? How can you carry on two seiges on two fortified cities that have at least a year's food, then take half the entire freaking country that has 5x the population of Scotland? I would think it's a bit implausible. Also, I don't know why Trebbie didn't hand back The Pale when I said I reland was given its independence; I had meant to, though. Not to mention the fact that Ireland is busy digesting the conquest of Mexico, I'm doubting that they can just invade anywhere.)'

* I agree that the Scottish deliberately took advantage of the Tenth Crusade to do this, and that getting as far as Manchester is implausible. However, if the Scots are willing to actually begin the invasion, then so be it. * I don't mind Scotland invading, but the entirity of English forces are in England; and I doubt that Scotland would have the manpower and the capital to make it paticularly sucessful. Combined with the fact that some of the more pious Christians out there see it as betraying a fellow nation in the Kingdom of God (and those same people may or may not be high-ranking members of the the large and well-funded Knights of Saint Andrew ;)), it may turn out to be a bad choice for the Scots.

Haha, I know, I'm part Scottish =D. But I don't think they could advance down to Manchester in one year with the entire english army in England. I'm all for a united Britain, but I don't think that it being united under the Scots is plausible. They have like 1/5 of the population of England (probably a bit less with the addition of the entire Great Basin and Pacific Coast tribes).
 * 1) I just thought the English were tied up in North America. And I am not distrating them from massacring a few harmless Muslims. They said they were pausing to recuperate from the Crusades for a bit. This war is driven by the Scottish rulers increasingly believing in a united Britain. And you'd be surprised. Scotland and Englands populations weren't vastly different at this pint in time. Amd Scots were renowned warriors, well known for their bravery and ferocity. Think on how England consistently failed to conquer Scotland, and how when te Scots invaded, they always marched south at quite a lick.

BoredMatt 20:50, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Tenth Crusade Map
If the Turks agree to the terms offered by the nations of the Tenth Crusade, the map should look something like this:


 * The Crusader states managed by each nation or a Crusading Order from that nation are marked in the country's respective colors.
 * Dominion of Goshen--Knights of St. Andrew, claimed nominally for England.
 * Kingdom of Jerusalem--Knights of the Vatican, also a Papacy-managed state.
 * Mecca--Papal State.
 * Dominion of Cyprus--Knights of St. Andrew, claimed nominally for England.
 * County of Sata--Managed by Florence.
 * Principality of Antioch--Managed by Florence.
 * Kingdom of Kemet--Claimed nominally by Florence, but international territory for all Christendom.
 * County of Edessa--Managed by Florence.
 * County of Tripoli--Managed by Florence.
 * Duchy of Bulgaria--Managed by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
 * Duchy of the Attica--Knights of St. Andrew, claimed nominally for England.
 * Dominion of the North Peloponnesus--Managed by the Hapsburgs.
 * Latin Empire--Greek lands around Thrace and Constantinople; managed as a semi-independent Papal State.
 * Dominion of East Oman--Managed by Ireland.
 * Kingdom of Aram--Joint administration shared between Florence and the Papal States.

--Emperor of Trebizond 22:10, October 28, 2010 (UTC)