User:NuclearVacuum/Sandbox/13 Fallen Stars

= 13 Fallen Stars =




 * (colors)
 * Term lengths by state
 * 


 * Have Alaska remain part of Russia, have it get more territory, and divide the area north (Yukon) and south (Alaska).


 * Greater New York City land reclamation


 * would be for the American Republics what Association Football is for Europe.


 * Soda Brands of the American Republics
 * (maybe Russia?)

Timeline for New Netherland

 * November 9, 1787 &mdash; New York declares secession from the Articles of Confederation.


 * March 24, 1788 &mdash; The USA dissolves. New Jersey gains independence.


 * Late 1788 &mdash; Talks for a unification of NJ and NY begin. War delays and alters unification moves.


 * November 1792 &mdash; New Netherland is established. New Jersey divides between east and west. Long Island becomes a state. Richmond County is sold to East Jersey. Upstate NY is given to the new federal government. The rump-NY becomes Hudson.


 * 1801 &mdash; The territories of Iroquois and Schenectady are established. Albany becomes a federal district.


 * 1805 &mdash; Schenectady gains statehood. The rest of the territory becomes the Adirondack Territory and the larger Capital District.


 * 1829 &mdash; Niagara gains statehood (splitting off from the Iroquois Territory).


 * 1836 &mdash; Iroquois gains statehood. The southern part of the territory becomes the Genessee Territory, with portions of the north being merged into the Adirondack Territory.


 * 1857 &mdash; Genessee gains statehood.


 * 1863 &mdash; Virgin Islands purchased.


 * 1872 &mdash; Adirondack gains statehood.


 * 1876 &mdash; Dutch East Indies purchased.


 * 1878 &mdash; St. Barts purchased.


 * 1880 &mdash; Caribbean islands united into the Curazao Territory.


 * 1883 &mdash; Spanish territory is purchased in Africa and the Pacific


 * 1898 &mdash; Bioko, Curazao, Fiji, and Micronesia gain territorial status. Islands off the coast of Venezuela annexed into Curazao.


 * 1900 &mdash; Tonga regains independence as a protectorate.


 * 1901 &mdash; Boundaries in Africa are finalized.


 * 1913 &mdash; NN Antarctic Territory established.


 * 1926 &mdash; African territories are united into the Biafra Territory.


 * 1958 &mdash; Curazao gains statehood. The rest of the territory becomes thee Statia Territory.


 * 1960 &mdash; Statia gains statehood.

Presidents in 13 Fallen Stars
{{legend|pink|Carolina}} {{legend|lightblue|Virginia}} {{legend|lightgreen|New England}} {{legend|lightsalmon|New Netherland}} {{legend|wheat|Pennsylvania}} {{legend|lightgrey|Others}}

Imperial Federation


The was a 19th century proposal to reorganize the  into a. While unsuccessful OTL, such an idea may very well be possible ATL. The following will be an explanation on how this Imperial Federation will function as I understand it.

Internal Structure
From what I've been able to read about the topic, there doesn't appear to be a well defined definition on what the Imperial Federation wanted to be beyond the federalization of the British Empire. Did they wish to form a strong federal government (a la the ) or something more comparable to the contemporary s (the or even the ). My initial expectations were closer to the former, but have gradually been moving towards the latter (due in great part to the input from LG). So the following will be my contemporary interpretation on what the United Britannic Commonwealth would be and how it would function.

The will be a federation of s,, and dependencies (of varying level). The dominions would hold the most power and would be comparable to the US states. The United Kingdom (as we know it) would loose considerable powers and would become an equal dominion. The crown colonies (or simply called colonies) would effectively act as territories (no different from OTL). Unlike OTL where the remaining colonies (mostly islands) fell under the control of either the UK or a dominion, all the colonies of the UC will be under the control of the federal government (though may still be closer to a specific dominion). The United Commonwealth would also include the which would not differ much in relations from OTL.

The British monarchy would still rule as the head of state of the United Commonwealth and would act mostly as a figurehead today (much like OTL). Some dominions and crown colonies may also have their own monarchy, though they are only regional and subordinate to the British monarchy. A single parliament will be the governing body of the UC and will include participation from all the dominions (and possibly the colonies). A single currency (the ) will be used across the United Commonwealth, with the federal government able to implement federal taxes. Freedom of movement is protected among the dominions and colonies. All residence within the United Commonwealth are citizens of the UC and of their respective dominion/colony. In most cases, those within the UC tend to show more identity with their respective region as opposed to being a "Britannic."

While a failure for the United States, the would become an inspiration for the United Commonwealth in the following ways. A single armed force is established and expanded during times of war and shrinking considerably during times of peace. Internal protections (especially during peace) are done by regional armed forces. Foreign policy is considerably weaker federally, with the dominions having more individual say (especially in regards to trade). In comparison to the United States OTL, the dominions are entitled to (and guaranteed) to be sovereign states.

The dominions (which would be large and populous entities) may have an internal practice of decentralization (or federalization in some cases), which give more regional say within a dominion. This especially plays out in Britain; where, , , and are given regional say within the dominion. They same can be said with Australia, Borealia, Canada, India, and indeed all the larger dominions.

Parliament
The Parliament would be the federal legislature of the United Commonwealth. The parliament may be considerably weaker than other national legislatures, leaving many areas open for dominion parliaments. The Parliament would be divided into two houses: the lower house will be called the, while the upper house would either be called the or the. The House of Commons are democratically elected and represent a specific constituency. The remaining house would be appointed by the dominions (either by their governments or independent committees).

The ruling government is headed by a Prime Minister (who will be the main person in charge of the UC besides the monarch). The dominions are headed by a Primer (as opposed to a Prime Minister, similar to Australia and Canada).

A potential issue may come about over the considerable population differences between some of the dominions. In particular that of Britain (likely the largest population among the "white colonies") and India (which has a population about 20 times that of Britain). It has been argued that the British Empire would become the Indian Empire if population was represented equally. Internal migration can only go so far, and dividing India into smaller dominions may help but potentially unlikely. A solution may be to have the house be based on "influence" or something to that effect (giving the British a boost).

Dominions and Colonies
The United Commonwealth is divided into dominions, [crown] colonies, and other areas (with Britain potentially being a different entity if needed). The dominions would be comparable to the US States, while the colonies would be more like territories. Some dominions and colonies would have special status, but would gain similar status within the Britannic Parliament.


 * Dominions


 * Italic = Special dominions (not "settler colonies")


 * 1
 * 1
 * 1)  (Gujarat)
 * 2)  (Great Britain)
 * 3)  (flag idea)
 * 2
 * 3
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 2
 * 3
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1
 * 1


 * 1 = May be united to form a single "West Indies Federation" (the Bahamas, Jamaica, and Trinidad may be excluded).
 * 2 = May remain a colony.
 * 3 = India may be further divided to create dominions with populations more on par with the others. One idea I have would be "" (Bangladesh and easternmost India) and "" (the contemporary state and more).


 * Crown Colonies




 * Crown Dependencies


 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)
 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)
 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)
 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)


 * Protectorates (not part of the UC)




 * Potential


 * Dominions
 * (possible crown colony[s])
 * (possible crown colony[s])
 * (possible crown colony[s])


 * Crown Colonies




 * Protectorates


 * Not likely


 * (Canon)
 * (protectorate or independent?)
 * (Palestine)
 * (Canon)
 * (part of Egypt?)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Canon)
 * (part of Egypt?)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Prussian?)


 * (still French?)

Flag Ideas to Work Out Later

 * Acadia &mdash; A cross between the current flags of and . Take the current flag of Nova Scotia (minus the shield and a smaller ratio) and add four blue  in a manner similar to that of Quebec's flag.


 * Westralia &mdash; Based on this design (which I tend to see commonly), minus the Commonwealth Star and the swan facing the fly (as similar to the proposed ).

New infobox for the states of New Netherland

 * Populations are based on OTL, and will be altered to express a larger population and internal migrations.


 * Population


 * 1) Hudson
 * 2) Niagara
 * 3) East Jersey
 * 4) Iroquois
 * 5) Long Island
 * 6) Schenectady
 * 7) West Jersey
 * 8) Genesee
 * 9) Adirondack
 * 10) Curazao
 * 11) Capital District
 * 12) Statia

Louisiana for 13
This will be expanded later, but I found this and need to write it for later research.

With my original idea for Canada likely to be gone soon, I take some comfort that at the very least, my idea would still work for Louisiana (I do hope that is what you meant by "Louisiana would work as a destination, though, for revolutionaries" [I assume you will be reading this, LG]).

In the short, Louisiana wins independence as a French-speaking republic. But with the loss of Canada, and a recent find, I may alter the timeline on when they gain independence. My original idea was around the late 1830s/early '40s (around the same time as the Mackenzie Rebellion in Canada). Now I may be looking towards the late 1810s/early '20s.

My reasoning involves enough lag for fleeing revolutionaries from France to enter Louisiana, it corresponds (more or less) to when the the other Latin American revolutions would be taking place (which all fail here, excluding Carolina's gains in the Floridas).

I also came across someone who may be a potential leader towards independence. was Governor of Louisiana OTL, as well as serving in the French army. His father (who was also a general) was executed by the new Spanish government, and played a minor role during the War of 1812. He might be an interesting figure to look further into.


 * Potential presidents




 * From LG



The American Republics and the British


For a while now, I have been trying to organize what the relationships between the American Republics (the former United States of America) and the British would be like. With the recent addition of Canada as a dominion (from what I had previously), I feel it should be appropriate to lay out my thoughts on the matter.

The obvious two categories would be those who have good relations, and those with bad relations. I have no doubt that by today (and throughout the 20th Century, if not earlier) all the American Republics would have good relations with the contemporary United Commonwealth. This primarily discusses relations in the 18th and 19th Centuries, and how they evolved into what they are today.


 * Carolina


 * Maryland


 * New England


 * New Netherland

I believe that would have strained relations with the British throughout much of the 19th Century. Much of this would come from resentment of British occupation of the New York City region during the Revolutionary War, and a move to establish themselves as a distinctive region (this includes the adoption of "Netherland" in their name).

Though for the most part, much of this anti-British feel would not be centered around them, but one of their biggest allies: New England. Albany's relations with Boston would be highly strained after the Vermont War &mdash; in which New York lost Vermont and their claims to the disputed Northwestern Territory. While the British had no real part in the Vermont War, the British would gain much of the blame (especially since NN's claim to the NWT did end up being British in the end).

New Netherland's growing power within North America would eventually lead to better relations. After the completion of the Erie Canal and the failed revolt in Canada; the British looked to have good relations with New Netherland for economic and security reasons.

Relations would begin to get positive by the 1880s. New Netherland money and industry is used to help build up British North America (including the first Transcontinental Railway from Canada to Colombia). New Netherland's growing global power and their own moves towards imperialism gained little opposition form the British, leading to territorial compromises.

Today, New Netherland and the United Commonwealth are the two dominant powers in the Americas.


 * Pennsylvania


 * Virginia

Asia at it stands in 13
This is just a quick bullet point on what is pretty much going to become canon in Asia. Stuff in italic face represent topics I am not sure about (not necessarily canon).


 * The will expand to include , , and.
 * Parts Manchuria (the and a land connection to Korea) go to Japan.
 * Not sure whether Russia would only include all of, or simply (which was the only parts within Russia's sphere of influence).


 * The wi include, the , , and parts of Manchuria (see above).


 * will become a dominion of the.
 * Hong Kong would also expand about 20 miles inland.


 * will be incorporated into the.


 * will gain independence.
 * Not sure whether it would include or only a smaller area.


 * will regain complete sovereignty and independence from the European spheres of influence as a republic.


 * ,, , , and parts of will be divided between , , and the.
 * France and Portugal retain their claims, and all are incorporated into that nation.
 * is divided into several dominions and crown colonies within the United Commonwealth.


 * and southern (to be renamed "") will gain independence as republics. Portions of northern Pakistan are merged into Afghanistan (which will most likely remain a monarchy).


 * will remain a, and will be incorporated into the Netherlands as "Ceylon."


 * The will remain a protectorate of the United Commonwealth.


 * will be divided up into several Dutch countries (dominions) and two sultanates.


 * will remain Portuguese, and will be incorporated into the kingdom.


 * will gain independence.


 * Both the British and Dutch claims on will gain independence and unite into a single nation.
 * Not sure whether they would become a republic.


 * and will remain independent monarchies under the names of "Persia" and "Siam" (respectively).


 * The British claims in are incorporated into the United Commonwealth.
 * The emirates of the, , and are incorporated as crown colonies.
 * Not completely sure about, and .

Wars in 13

 * Defined


 * (1789-1791)
 * French Revolt (1789-1792)
 * Haitian Revolution (1791-1800s)
 * (1795-1797)
 * First Latin American Revolutions (1800s)
 * Fifth Anglo-Dutch War (1800s)
 * Louisianan Revolution (1810s)
 * West Florida Revolution (1810s)
 * Rebellions of 1837 (1837-1838)
 * "Revolutions of 1848" (1840s)
 * (1861-1863)
 * Second Latin American Revolutions (1880s-1890s)
 * Venezuela War (1890s)
 * Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895)
 * Chinese Revolution (1911)
 * Liberia War (1980s)

Trenton Group: New Netherland's SOI
The idea of the "Trenton Pact" (a working name) was to be 's answer to the "Concord Pact" (which was an alliance between the British and New England) and the "Marseille Pact" (an alliance between France and Spain). It should be noted that these two pacts are no longer canon, so this reasoning for the Trenton Pact is out-of-date. Despite this, I still see some potential for the Trenton Pact to form out of New Netherland's imperial expansion, as well as New Netherland's answer to the Commonwealth of Nations.



This organization would combine elements of OTL "" and the "," while under the guise of 's. I could also see 's notion of the playing out in this organization. As a simplified of looking at this, think New Netherland forming an alliance between several American nations to both protect them from outside forces (particularly European domination) while securing New Netherland's interests in the Western Hemisphere. I may be stretching out the details, but it's a simple way of looking at it.

As its name suggests, the Trenton Pact would initially be an alliance between New Netherland and its allies among the American Republics (Pennsylvania and Virginia). Other members would join in later on. As to what kind of organization this would be, I have no real idea. I currently see parallels with the ; in which some cultural, economic, political, and military organizations are unified (though still dominated by New Netherland). I would say it could be similar to the, but I don't completely see this. Though the thoughts of a and  (?) do get my interest. In fact, I could see this organization establishing something akin to the, in which New Netherland wishes to expand its influence into the markets which it itself does not have in abundance (such as agriculture, coal, oil, steal, etc.). Military cooperation could likely follow (to both protect NN's interests and to keep European imperialism out). Who knows how far this could get by today.

Member States

 * Founding Members States




 * Likely Member States




 * Possible Member States


 * The following are not independent nations (canon), but I may change this later on.




 * Protectorates


 * (Virginia)
 * (New Netherland)


 * Unlikely Member States


 * The following states I have doubts about joining.




 * CALIFORNIA LOVE?


 * ''I'm leaving open the possibility that California becomes its own great power.



New Netherland Goes Swiss?


From the beginning, I've wanted to incorporate the as a basis of 's government. My initial understanding of the New Jersey Plan was to have a legislature in which all states were represented equally (a la the ). But to my initial frustration, the proposed plan included many more talking points which I did not understand (leading me to mostly ignore them). As my understanding began to improve, so did my curiosity on the expansion of these points within New Netherland.

The main talking point I'm focusing on is the proposal that would've had the United States adopt a collegial body to act as a collective (instead of a single presidency as what is currently in place). This system of government is known as a (or a collegial system), and made more confusing when the only contemporary user of this system is. To my amazement, several other nations had (at one point) used this system; including, the (to some extent), , and. But the key sticking point for me was that of all places, utilized this system of governance under the 1776 state constitution.

In conclusion, I can see many pros for incorporating this system into the timeline, with most of the cons relating to how alien this system sounds to me. The following sections will discuss and explore how I will envision New Netherland will function under this system.

Executive Branch
The executive branch of New Netherland will be dominated by an "executive council" &mdash; a collegial body which collectively acts as the. The number of councilors serving in such a body vary depending on the national examples: with Switzerland having, Uruguay having , and Pennsylvania having. As of now, I support having five serving for New Netherland.

The five councilors would also head one of five governmental departments, which would be comparable to a (not a constituency as I previously thought). Unlike most nations which establish new cabinets if needed, these executive departments would expand their responsibilities (similar to Switzerland). The five departments I have in mind include:


 * "Defense"
 * "Finance"
 * "Foreign Affairs"
 * "Justice"
 * "Interior" ( and more)

Despite these departments, each member of the council will be equal amongst each other. Among the five councilors will be selected a  president and vice president to lead the council and who will serve this position for about a year (with all councilors to serve this position at least one during their term in office).

As proposed in the New Jersey Plan, the councilors would only be allowed to serve a single term in office (barred from serving in the council afterwards). With members of the legislature holding a term of three-years, councilors would likely hold a longer time of six-years. The elections for councilors would be timed so about half are up for election every three years. Councilors were originally appointed by the legislature, but this has since changed so councilors are democratically elected. Under both systems, an is used based on the number of seats each state (and now territory) has. Since each state has the same number of votes, it boils down to who wins the most states.

Unlike what was initially hoped under the, the executive branch (not to mention the ) is constitutionally weaker in New Netherland than the legislative branch. This effectively makes New Netherland a compared to the  the United States established. Despite these hurtles, the executive council has somewhat evolved to give themselves more powers, which have been expanded upon since the council became democratically elected.

One of the constitutionally written duties of the councilors would be to appoint justices to the "supreme tribunal" (i.e., the ). Members of the council can constitutionally be removed from office only under the approval of all state legislatures (making impeachment either rare or non-existent). The council collectively may act as the, but this power is effectively under the responsibility of the legislature (similar to other parliamentary republics).

Councilors receive a fixed annual salary and are entitled to immunity during their term in office. Similar to what evolved in Switzerland, councilors don't receive as many luxuries as do other world leaders (this stemming from the New Jersey Plan's goal of making a weaker executive branch). Councilors aren't entitled to a residency during their term in office and are not under constant protection and supervision (though they are entitled to request such protections when needed).

Legislative Branch


The legislative branch of New Netherland will consist of a Congress. As proposed under the, the Congress will consist a single house where each state has equal representation. Each state would receive multiple seats which may vote individually (comparable to the ) but some legislation may require these members to vote as single states (a la ).

In contrast to how the, the , and the early were allotted to appoint members to Congress; members of congress (congressmen) will be democratically elected by the citizens of New Netherland. Each member represents a (called a Congressional District) which are drawn to have similar populations as the other districts of that state. Since each state has equal representation, this means that congressmen from the more populous states represent more constituencies than his/her colleagues from the least populous states. Each member of congress will be elected to a three-year term and would be able to serve an unlimited amount of terms if he/she wishes. Elections are held every three years, with all seats in congress being contested.

At the beginning of each cession, a president and a speaker will be appointed among the members of congress. The president (styled as the ) will become the (basically a  in all but name) and is usually the leader of the ruling coalition/political party. Leaders of the political parties are democratically elected by the members of that political party under a system. Formally, the president is elected by the members of congress, who in turn send their candidate to the executive council to be confirmed. The will be the presiding officer (chairman) of the legislature. Unlike the president, the speaker is elected by the members of congress, but is always a member from the governing coalition or political party. Both the president and the speaker will continue to represent their congressional districts and vote along side their fellow members of congress.

Unlike the executive council or other members of congress, the president would receive a residency during his time in the presidency (the ). The president is entitled to appoint other members of congress to a congressional cabinet (i.e., a ) who will work alongside the president (similar to the ).

State Governments
The appears to have focused more on the federal government and left the state governments to themselves. The only key I've found states that under the plan the [majority of] governors could recall members of the executive council. From this, it would be interesting to see each state potentially have a single head of state, while the federal government is the only one to use a collegial head of state. This could also vary between each state.

As I currently see it, the state governments of East Jersey (formerly New Jersey) and New York wouldn't change from their original constitutions and would act as the basis for future states. A governor would act as the single head of state and would be elected by the legislature. The legislature would be democratically elected. By today, governors may also be democratically elected.

Only the governors (either a majority of or all) have the constitutional authority to recall members of the executive council.

New Political Parties

 * {{legend|tan|Farmers' Party &mdash;, }}
 * {{legend|lime|Green Party &mdash;, }}
 * {{legend|yellow|Liberty Party &mdash;, , }}
 * {{legend|violet|Long House Party &mdash;, }}
 * {{legend|orange|National Party (Know Nothings) &mdash;, , , , }}
 * {{legend|black|People's Party &mdash;, , , , }}
 * {{legend|red|Progressive Party (Bull Moose) &mdash;, , , }}
 * {{legend|turquoise|Reform Party &mdash;, , , , , , }}
 * {{legend|blue|Unity Party &mdash;, }}


 * Current Congressional Makeup Idea


 * 145 members of congress (congressmen)
 * 11 members per state (11*11=121)
 * 3 members per territory (3*6*18)
 * 6 members for s
 * Africa
 * Antarctica and Oceania
 * Asia
 * Europe
 * North America
 * South America


 * Progressive Party


 * Leadership Ideas


 * Farmers' Party
 * Green Party
 * Liberty Party &mdash;
 * Long House Party &mdash; ?, ?
 * National Party &mdash;
 * People's Party &mdash;
 * Progressive Party &mdash;
 * Reform Party
 * Unity Party &mdash;

Party Members

 * Liberty Party






 * Progressive Party


 * ("progressive ")
 * ("progressive ")
 * ("progressive ")


 * Unity Party



Governments of the Other Nations
With using the  for the basis of their constitution, this has lead me to consider what the remaining  would adopt (not to mention other nations in general). The following will discuss in detail my current thoughts on this matter.




 * Would be a comprised of seven states.


 * I feel confident that Carolina would adopt the as the basis for its constitution. Under the plan, Carolina's legislature (likely called the "Congress") would be . Both houses would be proportioned based on population, with the upper house having far fewer seats than the lower. Members of the upper house may continue to be appointed by the state legislatures to this day. Given no opposition from the (not included) northern states, Carolina would likely not adopt the  and would include all slaves as part of their population. A president would act as the singular head of state and would be democratically elected.


 * Politically I would see Carolina as being a very conservative nation, with [East] Florida and Tennessee likely being the most liberal.




 * Maryland would be a state comprised of its current counties (with  being divided between Montgomery and Prince George's.


 * I feel the would be adopted in Maryland, with the counties acting as constituencies (similar to OTL). Both houses of the  legislature would be proportioned based on population (with the upper house having far fewer seats). The head of state would be a democratically elected President.




 * No doubt in my mind (let alone everyone else) that New England would be a [canonically] comprised of seven states (though I may expand the number of states by further dividing Maine in the future).


 * Compared to the other American Republics, New England would be unique in that it would include the large population of and the comparatively low populations outside Massachusetts. By comparison, Massachusetts' population was more comparable to that of New York and Pennsylvania, while the remaining New England states had roughly half of Massachusetts population. It is because of this that I feel it may be likely that New England may adopt something akin to the  (or Connecticut Plan) which was adopted by the United States OTL. Like in the US, the legislature (potentially called the "General Court") would be . The lower house would be proportioned based on population, while the upper house would be equally proportioned. Members of the upper house may continue to be appointed by the state legislatures, but this may have changed by today.


 * A singular head of state (a President) may be very likely for New England. But given the adoption of s in neighboring New Netherland and Pennsylvania, it might be interesting to see New England do something similar. In an ironic twist, I may partially get my wish as it appears both (see ) and Massachusetts (see ) do have something akin to an executive council which continues to exist. Since both systems are similar, New England would likely follow this system. Under this "New England system," the president would still be elected and would be the singular leader. Alongside him/her would be a democratically elected council whose job it would be to assist the president and keep a check on his/her powers. Unlike other directorial republics, these councilors would not head a specific department would would represent a specific district within the nation (comparable to a congressional district). These districts would be based on population, so they may cross state lines (as opposed to being the states themselves).


 * Politically I would see New England (much like OTL) being a very liberal nation, with "Maine" and New Hampshire comprising the conservative core.




 * Pennsylvania would be a currently comprised of 10 states.


 * I feel it'd be more likely that Pennsylvania would adopt the, but depending on what wants this may be parlayed into something akin to the . Pennsylvania's population (OTL) was comparable to that of New York's at the time. Depending on how populous the partitioned Pennsylvanian states would be, it may be possible Delaware would feel okay with adopting the Virginia plan on the grounds that it's own population would be more comparable to that of the rest.


 * Unlike OTL, Pennsylvania would likely keep its to this day, with a collegial body collectively acting as the head of state. Given its close relations with New Netherland, Pennsylvania may adopt similar rules as its neighbor by today.




 * Virginia would be a comprised of nearly 375 counties.


 * Virginia would very likely adopt the, with both houses of its legislature being proportioned based on population (with the upper house having far fewer seats). Virginia would also likely not adopt something like the and would count all slaves as part of its population.


 * The head of state would be the President, who is democratically elected. Since Virginia was late in abolishing the requirement to own land in order to vote, this may have played out in early Virginian history.


 * Elsewhere


 * Given their proximity and lack of any noteworthy alternatives, I suspect that and  would adopt a system comparable to that of Carolina (with some elements from the French revolutionaries). Cuba and Puerto Rico (if the later becomes independent, which it might) would likely follow a similar path.


 * The members of the United Commonwealth would no doubt follow that of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth Realm. Given good relations with New England, they may adopt some elements from them (particularly the Connecticut Compromise).


 * The Latin Republics may follow a similar path as OTL, though with more connections to that of Spain. As of right now (though still a WIP), California would adopt a unicameral legislature based on population (similar to that of Venezuela).

Departments of the Executive College

 * "Defense" &mdash; defense, war, homeland security, veterans affairs
 * "Finance" &mdash; economy, treasury, trade, customs, commerce
 * "Foreign Affairs" &mdash; state
 * "Interior" &mdash; interior, labor, health, housing, transportation, communications, education
 * "Justice" &mdash; attorney general, policing


 * Candidates


 * Defense
 * (1792)
 * (2014)


 * Finance
 * (1792)
 * (2008)
 * (2014)
 * (2014)
 * (2014)


 * Foreign Affairs
 * ? (1792)
 * (2002)
 * (2008)
 * ? (2014)
 * ? (2014)


 * Interior
 * (1792)
 * (2002)
 * (2008?)
 * (2014)


 * Justice
 * (1792)
 * (2008)
 * (2014)

Governor Ideas

 * (L-East Jersey)
 * (P-Long Island)
 * (L-Genesee)
 * (P-New York)

How Carolina Works
The following will be my personal attempt to work out how racial segregation would continue to shape the today. Chalk this up to either me being a New Yorker and growing up in the 1990s or me just being a (mostly) decent human being, but the concept of continued segregation blows my mind and is very troubling for me to work on. Because of which I hope to focus more on as many positives as there could exist in this scenario.



The first thing to note is that Carolina would continue to have slavery well beyond the 1860s. A domestic abolitionist movement would be limited, while international pressure can only go so far during this time period. I predict that slavery will end sometime between the 1890s and 1930s. A working scenario I have is that gradually diminishes for Carolina economy following the 1860s. begins to cooperate with the northern republics (especially ) and the British begin to move cotton production into Egypt and India. Combined with the rise of new technologies, cotton and the use of slave labor becomes less needed every passing year. The final nail in the coffin would be the infestation of the around the 1910s, which further destroys cotton productions for Carolina, with slavery coming to an end in the later half of the decade.

Though slavery is abolished on its own in Carolina, racism would still be ingrained in the Carolinian psyche. Much like OTL, the states adopt which virtually keep all Afro-Carolinians no better off than when they were slaves. They have no freedoms (treated as second-class citizens) and are expected to work or are criminalized (to put it bluntly). would become common in Carolina (like it was in the US OTL) and would expand to include both Blacks and poor Whites (these Whites would even make up the sharecropping majority in some states). These White sharecroppers would eventually form a solidarity with the Blacks, and both would form the core of a populist movement in Carolina. As the economy worsens (a ) and a lack of innovation in the nation, men like emerge as into the national spotlight. While it may be a stretch for Carolina, I would like to assume that these populists would also work to improve the lives of Afro-Carolinians. A compromise to this would be to implement a policy of (which is what we know as the ). This policy may be implemented nationally or remain local (with some areas even going as far to declare equality for all). and Tennessee seem to be the most likely states to go in this direction.



Regardless of what policy is chosen, I'd still predict that the of Afro-Carolinians would still take place. If the Carolinian mentality is this strong, I doubt they'd oppose an exodus (not like this is East Germany or anything). I can see a large Afro-Carolinian diaspora living in British North America (Acadia and Canada), the Caribbean (British West Indies, ), Statia, (which would have a larger  population),, and the remaining American Republics ( and  especially).

While I doubt this would play a significant role in this timeline, I'd like to suspect that would play some role in Carolina policy. The biggest idea of which would propose the establishment of a Black-dominated nation where Carolina once was (the ). This idea would play out as the ultimate goal for hard core nationalist and as a rallying cry for white supremacists).

Presidential Terms of Carolina


I'm very much a fan of how the was to serve a single six-year term in office, and I've been interested in doing the same for Carolina for a while now.

The main reasoning for which will be that Georgia and North Carlina (at the time) used a three-term governorship, with Tennessee doing similar. It also appears that all of these states used single-term governorships early on. This could be worked out for the nation in the early 1790s.

Here's a WIP description. Carlina adopts a six-term presidency. Elections are held every three-years, with Representatives serving three-year terms and Senators serving nine-year terms. No term limits were stated in the constitution, but the early presidents would purposely serve a single term. This may have changed by today, with 's administration being a potential catalyst for this movement.

If 1791 would be the year of the first election, than the most recent presidential elections would've been in 2001, 2007, and 2013. With being in 2001 and  in 2007, than this may leave open  being elected in 2013 (serving until 2019).

Dutch "Cape Colony"


With no Napoleonic Wars, the would get to keep their colony in the. Because of this, southern Africa would be completely different from OTL. The more noticeable difference is that there exists two territories in what is OTL South Africa. The Dutch keep the Cape Colony, while the British take. The British would also expand northwards into and the wealth it has.

The Dutch too would expand to their north into southern. Much of the early colonists would be the s, who trek away from Cape Town to gain more farmland and to be isolated (similar to OTL). Instead of settling the upper they would instead settle the lower half of the river (i.e., ).

Similar to OTL, the "Cape Colony" would have a unique population comprised of European settlers (commonly known as ) and those of mixed decent. Given the low native population in the Northern Cape and southern Namibia (compared to eastern South Africa), there may be a good chance that Afrikaners may form a majority (if not a more sizable minority) within the "Cape Colony." With continued connections with the Netherlands, the would not exist (at least as an independent language) and  would continue to be officially spoken (though be it a regional variant).

By comparison, British would greatly resemble eastern South Africa from OTL. The population would have a native majority, with a sizable white minority living mostly in urban areas. With no Afrikaners to deal with, anything resembling would not exist within Natal (though it wouldn't surprise me if a de facto White-controlled government existed throughout its history). and would be incorporated into Natal, as would the southernmost portions of. The crown colonies of and  (though being separate entities) be withing Natal's sphere of influence.

Independence?


Not too sure how well this will work out, but I see potential in the "Cape Colony" gaining independence as a republic by today.

I don't have a specific reasoning for how this would happen aside from the Boers likely supporting and fighting for such a thing and the elite in Cape Town potentially favoring such a move. Depending on how the Dutch continue to rule the colony (I've read both good and bad things), the Afrikaners may see themselves as being an independent republic (more on par with the Americas) than remaining a colony (or dominion) of the Dutch.

From what I've read, I would place independence anytime between the 1830s to around the 1950s. If it gains independence, I'm tempted to name the new nation the Orange Free State as opposed to Kaapland (or even Volkstaad). Due to the Boers likely having influence in the region's independence and as a protection from invasion, the capital city of this nation would be moved north (though Cape Town could continue to be an economic center).

This nation would likely have no democratic traditions, though I'd like to assume that they eventually adopt some form of democracy (maybe following ). I'd also suspect some form of being implemented in this region (regardless of independence), but it would likely continue to this day if independence is achieved. Though with the population potentially being an Afrikaner/Coloured majority, it may loosen itself over time as the loss of power would be low.

I predict they would have very close relations with and possibly. I'm also playing around with the idea that Angola and Mozambique-Rhodesia (which LG state could become independent) may become something like puppet states of the Cape Colony and would adopt adopt White-dominated governments under the backing of the Cape (maybe even Carolina). While this may be possible for Angola, Mozambique-Rhodesia (which is north of Natal) may be less so.


 * Other Notes


 * The "Cape Colony" would have an area roughly similar to that of.


 * Under Apartheid, the provinces of South Africa were subdivided into districts (. The Cape Province was divided into (about) 150 of these districts. Given that Virginia has roughly 370 counties, it shouldn't be an issue for the "Cape Colony" (especially if independent) to keep this subdivision.


 * Potential Names


 * Republic of the Cape of Good Hope (Republiek van die Kaap van Goeie Hoop)
 * Free State of the Cape of Good Hope (Vrystaat van die Kaap van Goeie Hoop)

Counties of Virginia
When I became the caretaker of this timeline, many (including myself) assumed that Virginia would become a federation of states or (at the least) divided into states (much like that of its neighbors). But as the timeline began to be sorted out, it's become apparent that Virginia would actually be a with little difference between OTL Virginia. In a somewhat annoying way this does make sense, as Virginia (not to mention Maryland) would be the only colony/state which would go it alone, whereas the others would unite into regional nations (which would require federations). So the story should end here, with Virginia continued to be divided into counties and divided into much more of them with a larger area. But with this comes more confusion.

The first bit of confusion is that Virginia is unique within the United States for virtually allowing all its major cities to become independent from its surrounding county. Today there includes 38 independent cities of Virginia (along with 95 standard counties). This is one of the more confusing aspects of Virginia, and only makes it more frustrating to contemplate the inclusion of more cities from Kentucky et al.



I decided to do some research on this topic, but it leaves me with more questions than answers. The first tidbit was that these independent cities didn't become official until after the Civil War, but many had de facto independence since colonial times. The only reasonable answer I could find to explain why the independent cities came to be following the Civil War was (to keep things simple) because of Virginia's loss in the war. The explanation tells that Virginia supported rural communities and unincorporated the cities to allow these communities to not be sucked into these growing cities.

This explanation seems to be the best reason for me, but from a contemporary standpoint doesn't seem to fit. Most of the arguments against independent cities state that the rural areas have remained "too" rural, and lack many infrastructural necessities which the independent cities have more of. Pretty much that the rural and urban areas would make the county as a whole much better off. Combined with the fact that this only came about following their loss in the Civil War, I feel relieved to say that I will keep these cities included in their counties for this timeline.

But with one issue solved, another rises. This second issue is that both Kentucky and Virginia (Not to mention many Southern States) are notorious for having numerous small counties (both having about 100 counties each). This is a nightmare for a map maker like me, so I had to dig deeper to make myself satisfied. The best explanation I got for this phenomenon is ruralism once again. Having smaller counties was seen as a way to have average people feel more connected with their state. In particular, the argument states that having smaller counties would allow average people to be within a days travel (at the time) from the county seat.

Unlike independent cities, this explanation sits pretty well for me, and makes Virginia more uniquely Virginian. But this still makes the map making side very uneasy, especially since the counties north of the Ohio River would have to be redrawn to include this mentality (not to mention eliminating the borders of OTL). One idea I could do to solve this would be to eliminate the counties as the first-class subdivision and create something larger (like states or provinces which would still be part of a unitary state). But given the ruralism aspect and that Virginia was already dividing Kentucky into counties by the POD, I think this wouldn't sit well. I may establish larger regions which would play some role in Virginia by today, but they would not be a real subdivision (more like the ).

The only downside to having +300 counties is that there doesn't exist a real comparison from OTL. Texas is an okay comparison, but it has far less counties and a larger area than ATL Virginia. To some relief, I did stumble upon and its. Virginia would be twice the size of Uganda, but (2*2=4) and we get somewhere around Virginia's county number.

So as of now, the Commonwealth of Virginia will be a unitary state comprised of +300 counties. These counties are small and very local. These counties are divided into towns and cities. Many counties are included into larger regions, which only act as larger bodies to keep the counties connected with the national government in Richmond.

General Assembly of Virginia
The legislative body of the will be the. Following Virginia's independence, I feel the General Assembly (as well as the constitution) will be restructured. I feel it should be safe to assume that the would become the basis of the General Assembly. Under the Virginia Plan, the legislature is divided into two chambers, both proportioned based on population. The two chambers will be known as the House of Delegates and the Senate. Unlike the United States, Virginia would remain a. While subordinate to the national government, the counties will also act as constituencies under this plan.



The House of Delegates (lower house) will mimic the. Based on their population, each county will receive a set number of votes to send to the House (though each county may be entitled to at least one). Delegates to the House are democratically elected by the citizens living within those counties. The counties with multiple seats may be further divided into smaller constituencies to allow more regionalism, or the citizens of each county may vote on multiple delegates (I currently prefer the former). Each delegate is elected to serve a two-year term with no term limits. The House will be lead by a Speaker, who is elected among the delegates and is usually the leader of the governing party.

The Senate (upper house) will also be based on population (as opposed to equality as with the ). As with the House, each county will receive a set number of votes to send to the Senate, though the Senate will consist of far fewer seats than the House. Unlike the House or the US Senate, Virginian Senators are appointed (similar to what the US Senate was like prior to the adoption of the ). Since the counties hold no federal power, the county governments would not appoint Senators. Instead, it would be county officials (those who have a high standing within said county) who nominate candidates for the Senate, and are confirmed by the House. Each Senator is appointed to serve a six-year term with no term limits. The Senate will be lead by the Vice President of Virginia (to be known as the President of the Senate), regardless of party affiliation.

Given the likely political makeup of Virginia, I predict that the House of Delegates will fluctuate between conservative and liberal governments (potentially the opposite of which party the President is in), while the Senate may remain solidly conservative due to regional conservatism. (who would likely be Virginian) may be a member of the General Assembly to this day.

Russian Antarctica Idea
Not too sure this will work out (I want it to so thereby it won't). I would like to see the make a claim to Antarctica. Because... Russia (also the fact they discovered the continent). I was considering for a while that the best option for Russia would be to claim since the area is unclaimed (OTL), but it was assumed the the British would snatch it up.

In hopes of having this idea be possible, here is a potential timeline idea for a Russian Antarctic claim as it may play out.

Following British and New Netherlander claims to the continent, Russia begins to do the same. With no WWI or Revolution, it would be easy enough to do it. Russia lays claim to (for the most part) Alexander I Land, Peter I Island, and a chunk of the continent which would no doubt overlap some of the British claims.

As time moves on and the boundaries become standard, a treaty between the Brits and the Russians ends these disputes. In exchange for relinquishing claims to the area east of the 80th meridian (OTL BAT), the Russians would be able to expand westward to include all of Marie Byrd Land (with a small territory added to the Ross Dependency).

Russian Names for the American Republics
Because I'm bored and because I can.


 * &mdash; Каролинская Конфедерация
 * Karolina &mdash; Karolinskaya Konfyedyeratsiya


 * &mdash; Свободное Государство Мэриленд
 * Merilyend &mdash; Svobodnoye Gosudarstvo Merilyend


 * &mdash; Соединённые Штаты Новой Англии (С.Ш.Н.А.)
 * Novaya Angliya &mdash; Soyedinyonnyye Shtaty Novoy Anglii (S.Sh.N.A.)


 * &mdash; Соединённые Штаты Новых Нидерландов (С.Ш.Н.Н.)
 * Novyye Nidyerlandy &mdash; Soyedinyonnyye Shtaty Novykh Nidyerlandov (S.Sh.N.N.)


 * &mdash; Содружество Пенсильвании
 * Pensil'vaniya &mdash; Sodruzhyestvo Pensil'vanii


 * &mdash; Содружество Виргинии
 * Virginiya &mdash; Sodruzhyestvo Virginii

A Couple of Ideas to Work Out

 * By today, the is reorganized into a federation of equal members.


 * If not the governorates, than larger entities will be created which unifies several governorates together. These larger entities will be called "krais."


 * Without the famines and world wars of the 20th century, there may exist the possibility that the Russian people witness a population boom compared to OTL. The Russian Empire would have a larger population overall (though nowhere as large as the United Commonwealth).


 * Siberia could be much more developed than OTL, both in population and infrastructure. Dalny (or possibly "New Dalny") would become the Los Angeles of the Russian Empire.

Krais of the Russian Empire
As I currently have in mind, the would decentralize (or federalize) their territories by today, allowing the regions more autonomy. Rather than the governorates and oblasts having this power, a larger entity will be established which would combine these areas together. These areas will be known as krais, and would've evolved from the (also called ) which existed during the Russian Empire.

These krais would be structured similarly to the dominions of the. A will be appointed to act as the head of state and the vice-regal of that krai (pretty much what existed prior). The majority of the issues within these krais are done by means of a democratic legislature, headed by a premier.


 * General Ideas

The following are krai ideas which I believe are self-explanatory.


 * Alaska &mdash; and possibly parts of  and the.


 * Baltic &mdash; Much of and . (ru)


 * Poland &mdash; and possibly some (if not all) of.


 * Vague Ideas

The following are vague ideas which will have to be sorted out (just getting them out in the open).


 * Amur (or Primorie) &mdash;, the , , and parts of and.


 * Astrakhan &mdash; and more.


 * Baikal &mdash;, , and.


 * Bessarabia &mdash; and parts of the  (may be included in Novorossia).


 * Belorussia (or Belarus) &mdash; Much of.


 * Ciscaucasia (or Cossackia) &mdash; Southwestern (the Russian Caucasus).


 * East Turkestan (or Uyghuristan) &mdash; (see ).


 * Kamchatka &mdash;, , , and northern.


 * Kazan (or Tatarstan) &mdash; and more (see ).


 * Latvia &mdash; Much of (see ).


 * Malorossia (or Little Russia) &mdash;, , and much of northeastern (see ).


 * Manchuria &mdash; Northeastern (see ).


 * Mongolia &mdash; and possibly  and.


 * Novgorod (or Ingria) &mdash;, , and much of northwestern.


 * Novorossia &mdash; Southern and possibly the  (see ).


 * Pomorie (or Goluborossia) &mdash;, , , , and some more (see ).


 * Ruthenia &mdash; Western (see ).


 * Steppe &mdash; and northeastern.


 * Tobol (or Yugra) &mdash;, , and.


 * Transcaucasia (or Greater Armenia) &mdash;, , , and parts of and.


 * Velikorossia (or Muscovy) &mdash;, , and much of central (see ).


 * West Turkestan (or Turkestan) &mdash;, , , and (see ).


 * Yakutia (or Sakha) &mdash;.


 * Yenisei &mdash;.

Presidents of New Netherland: The Revenge
With New Netherland now becoming a parliamentary republic, the presidential lineup will have to be redone to work around this. The presidency will now resemble a premiership of any parliamentary system.

Election Years and Key Presidents

 * Bold = Elections of the Executive Council
 * Italic = Future elections


 * 1) 1792 &mdash;  (nonpartisan)
 * 2) 1795
 * 3) 1798
 * 4) 1801 &mdash;  (National Unity)
 * 5) 1804
 * 6) 1807
 * 7) 1810
 * 8) 1813
 * 9) 1816
 * 10) 1819 &mdash;  (National Unity)
 * 11) 1822
 * 12) 1825
 * 13) 1828 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 14) 1831
 * 15) 1834
 * 16) 1837
 * 17) 1840
 * 18) 1843
 * 19) 1846
 * 20) 1849
 * 21) 1852
 * 22) 1855 &mdash;  (National)
 * 23) 1858
 * 24) 1861 &mdash;  (Unity)
 * 25) 1864
 * 26) 1867 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 27) 1870
 * 28) 1873 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 29) 1876
 * 30) 1879 &mdash;  (Unity)
 * 31) 1882
 * 32) 1885 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 33) 1888
 * 34) 1891
 * 35) 1894
 * 36) 1897
 * 37) 1900 &mdash;  (Unity)
 * 38) 1903
 * 39) 1906
 * 40) 1909
 * 41) 1912 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 42) 1915
 * 43) 1918 &mdash;  (Progressive)
 * 44) 1921
 * 45) 1924 &mdash;  (Progressive)
 * 46) 1927
 * 47) 1930 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 48) 1933 &mdash;  (Progressive)
 * 49) 1936
 * 50) 1939
 * 51) 1942
 * 52) 1945
 * 53) 1948 &mdash;  (Liberty)
 * 54) 1951
 * 55) 1954 &mdash;  (Progressive)
 * 56) 1957
 * 57) 1960
 * 58) 1963 &mdash;  (?)
 * 59) 1966
 * 60) 1969
 * 61) 1972
 * 62) 1975
 * 63) 1978
 * 64) 1981
 * 65) 1984
 * 66) 1987
 * 67) 1990 &mdash;  (?)
 * 68) 1993
 * 69) 1996
 * 70) 1999
 * 71) 2002
 * 72) 2005
 * 73) 2008
 * 74) 2011
 * 75) 2014
 * 76) 2017

Expanded Details
The following will include some basic ideas I have for several presidents and their administrations.


 * Following the end of his governorship/presidency of New York, is either appointed or elected to the presidency of New Netherland upon its formation. Clinton leads a coalition government comprised of, , and fellow .  would lead an opposition comprised of former  and . Hamilton resigns following a scandal in the late 1790s (much like OTL).


 * Following the [likely] three terms of Clinton, would become his successor. Unlike Clinton, Burr was a moderate and attempted to establish a new government between the Anti-Federalists and Federalists. Though initially successful, Alexander Hamilton (fearing the decay of his influence) convinces Congress to vote Burr out after a single term. Continued feuding between Burr and Hamilton results in the  between them where Hamilton dies. Burr's place in history is similar to OTL and considered a failed leader in many respects.


 * would gain the presidency in around the 1820s. Unlike his uncle (George Clinton), DeWitt leads a government of Federalists. During his time as president, New Netherland expands its industrial sectors, drastically improve its relations with the British, and construction on the takes place (which transforms New Netherland into a major economic player in North America).


 * A former opponent to DeWitt Clinton, gains the presidency following Clinton (1820s-1830s). Becoming the first president of Dutch decent (with English being a second language for him), Van Buren gains the nickname "The Little Magician" for his role in the further democratization of New Netherlander politics and helping to shape the multi-party system which continues to be used.


 * would win the presidency during the 1850s. He leads a coalition government headed by the "Know Nothings" (which may do better with slavery not being an issue in New Netherland). His time as president is short-lived.


 * The presidency of would be dominated by foreign affairs. This included legislation for New Netherland to aid the  in its fight to abolish slavery, as well as the beginning of the "Empire State" when New Netherland purchases the Danish West Indies.


 * would continue in Seward's foreign issues and would establish closer relations with Virginia (then lead by ).


 * 's presidency would see the greatest expansion of New Netherland by orchestrating the purchase of Spanish colonies in Africa and the Pacific.


 * would serve a single term as president before being defeated by a very small margin. After three years of serving the opposition, he regains the presidency which he serve for one remaining term.


 * Despite opposition to which, would gain the presidency by the 1900s. He greatly expands New Netherland's great power status. After serving a few terms, he leaves but become greatly dissatisfied by his successors. He decides to run again, only to be turned down by his party. He establishes a new one (the Progressive Party) which is able to swing the election. The Progressives gain second place in Congress in 1912. It wouldn't be until the next election that they regain the government, which Roosevelt would serve until his death.


 * would be the president during the short time before Roosevelt regains the presidency.


 * 's time as president would further democratize New Netherland (including the presidency and executive council). Johnson's administration is also noted for implementing Prohibition in New Netherland.


 * would become the first Catholic President of New Netherland. His administration would be noted for ending Prohibition. His presidency would be regarded as a failure when his administration fails to do much in regards to the Great Depression.


 * would lead a Progressive government spanning two-decades. He continues on progressive reforms, including a . Without WWII, his administration holds power primarily due to economic insecurities, but is still regarded as a national figure to this day.


 * 's presidency would help to shape the Liberty Party as we know it (into a "" party). His administration is also noted for growing instabilities within New Netherland (Attica, Civil Rights, Economy).


 * would become the first president of Italian decent. His administration is dominated by what he calls "Progressive Pragmatism." He would serve several terms as president before being defeated in a surprising election.

About the States and Territories of New Netherland
The following will be a general summary of how I see the states and territories of New Netherland demographically, economically, geographically, historically, and politically. Territories will be marked in italic.


 * (Capital: )


 *  (Capital: )


 * Bioko is a territory located in (OTL ). The territory was purchased from  in the 1880s and became New Netherland's only claim on the continent during the.


 * Throughout its history, Bioko was a successful plantation colony focusing on, , and . During the , these plantations and the industrialization of the territory resulted in a population boom. Since the late 1900s, extraction became a major part of the territory's economy. Due to these factors, many "Biokeños" have favored either independence or statehood (to the latter is more favorable).


 * The territory is demographically diverse and is commonly divided into two regions: the islands of and  (which hosts the capital) and the mainland territory of . Those of European decent currently make up the majority on the two islands, with a large portion having migrated from New Netherland during the 20th century. The mainland currently retains an aboriginal majority with a sizable European minority along the coast.


 * Bioko is politically diverse and sometimes considered a, though its national influence is minor. The three major parties (Liberty, Progressive, and Unity) have major say across the islands and the mainland coast. Despite once being an -based political movement, the Long House Party has been gaining support as an indigenous rights party outside New Netherland. The Afro-dominated People's Party has also held some say, though this has slowly been in decline due to the party's Afro-Carolinian dominance and little support for native Africans.




 * (Capital: )


 * (Capital: )


 * Curazao is an insular state comprised of, (Curazao), , and most of the . The islands were purchased from the Netherlands following the abolishment of slavery, while the remaining islands were occupied and later annexed following the independence of Venezuela in the 1890s.


 * Since the 1900s, the economy of Curazao is dominated by extraction and refining (due to the large oil reserves along the Venezuelan coast).


 * Unlike OTL, the population is dominated mostly by those of European decent. The main European groups include those coming directly from New Netherland (who are predominantly, , , and ), those whose ancestry originated from the , and (coming either from  or ; with  sometimes included). The rest of the population comprises of , , s, and small aboriginal population. Curazao is the only state to have two official languages:  and.


 * Due to the state's lucrative oil interests, Curazao is politically dominated by the Liberty Party and the Unity Party. The Green Party and the People's Party also have some say within the state.


 * (Capital: )


 *  (Capital: )


 *  (Capital: c/s)


 * (Capital: )


 * Genesee was established in the late 1820s following the completion of the and became the first state to be established in the west. It includes all of New York west of the  (historically known as the "Genesee Country") and the . The state contains the city of, and is one of the most populous state within New Netherland.


 * The economy is dominated by and continues to be the gateway for the  and the world. A smaller chunk of the state's economy is focused on  (mostly in the south) and.


 * Culturally, Genesee was the core of the historic, which at the time was an area dominated by religious revivalism. This religious fundamentalism has cooled down by today, but still remains a contemporary feature of the state. Because of which, Genesee has become something of a politically, with the Progressive Party having dominance in the major cities while the Unity Party has say in traditionally religious and business friendly regions. In the southern portions of the state, the Farmers' Party has held support in the farming regions, with the Long House Party having some say along the central Genesee River.


 * Genesee is dominated by those of . Other ancestral groups include, , , , , and.


 * (Capital: )


 * Iroquoia was established around the 1830s and includes much of the area south of, north of the , and east of the . The completion of the became the primary reason for the state's existence, with its economy being centered on the canal. Many cities along the canal eventually became manufacturing hubs and would include the cities of  and.


 * In many ways, Iroquoia acts as the reincarnation of the historic, making the state one of the most conservative in the nation. The state is also noted as the birthplace of several new religions, the most noted being (which continues to play a dominant role in the state). Because of which, the Unity Party has held dominance in state politics. The southernmost regions have been dominated by the Long House Party for decades.


 * Demographically, those of hold dominance in the state. Other noted groups include, , , and  (to name a few). In the southernmost portions of the state, the native  peoples continue to hold dominance.


 * (Capital: )


 * One of the founding states of New Netherland, Long Island would constitute the entirety of Long Island and its islets (from the to ). Because of which, the "Greater City of New York" would not exist as OTL, with  continuing to be its own city and with  remaining a suburban area on part with  (which would remain a part of Queens) and . During the, Long Island attempted to secede from New York and join  (following Vermont), but would later parley this into statehood.


 * The economy would've been dominated by and  for most of its history. As of recently the state has developed as a the s of Brooklyn and New York, as well as being something of a . Due to its connection with New York City, Long Island would be one of the most populous states of New Netherland. Demographically, Long Island would be dominated by those of  ancestry, as well as those of, , , , and  ancestry.


 * Politically, Long Island would remain somewhat of a to this day. Brooklyn would be dominated by the People's Party and the Progressive Party, while the fishing-dominated and summer colonies of Suffolk County would be a haven for the conservative Unity Party. Because of this huge political split, the moderate Liberty Party would probably hold dominance in the center of the state (if not being the state-wide favorite).


 *  (Capital: )


 * Micronesia is an insular territory located in the . Encompassing the majority of the, the territory would include the , , the , , the , , and would also likely include . The territory was purchased from in the 1880s, with it being organized into a territory by 1900.


 * Unique to the Pacific, the majority of people within the territory are non-native peoples. The largest groups include and New Netherlanders.


 * (Capital: )


 *  (Capital: )


 * This territory would include and most of the . The region became part of New Netherland in the early 1900s mostly as a response to the British formalizing their claims on the continent. New Netherland's claims focused primarily on, which were named after its New York-born discoverer , and would gradually expand to include most of Eastern Antarctica. The territory would be organizes around the mid 1900s, and named in honor of.


 * Unlike the continent of OTL, Antarctica would be "colonized" and "exploited." By this I mean a larger population would live within the territory, with most having some part in resource extractions. The economy would be dominated by, , , , and mining; with  and  potential existing as well.  Because mining these resources would be difficult given the Antarctic climate, any such projects would be recent ventures. More apparent to the economy in the long run would be  located in the , as well as  and  playing an early role in the region (the later may have been discontinued by today).


 * To help expand these projects, a permanent population would be established within the territory. Because most of the territory is covered in ice, the population would be focused along the several along the coast (most notably the ) and the . While it may be interesting to see the continent further  to help suit a new population, I'd guess the largest population for the territory would be around 2,000 people. Excluding the two main political parties (Liberty and Progressive), I'd predict that the pro-business Unity Party may have a large say in the territory, with the pro-ecology Green Party not being too far behind.


 * (Capital: )


 * (Capital: )


 * Statia is an insular state comprised of, (St. Barts),  (Statia), , and the . Originally included as part of the "Curazao Territory," the northernmost islands split off due to cultural and economic differences (eventually becoming its own state).


 * While once thriving, the abolishment of slavery in by the late 1800s would be a major blow to the island's economy. Upon becoming part of the Empire State, industry gradually began to grow, reaching its peak by the late 1900s. Tourism has become the primary industry and dominates the state's economy.


 * Those of and  decent form the vast majority of the state's population, with those of European decent forming a sizable minority. Following the abolishment of slavery in nearby, many freed slaves would migrate to New Netherland and its Caribbean territories. Today, Statia has a uniquely Afro-Carolinian culture which differs from the neighboring Afro-Caribbean islands of the British.


 * Politically, the state is dominated by the Liberty Party and the Progressive Party (with the latter currently having most say), with the National Party and the Unity Party having very little support in the state. Because the state has an African majority, the African-dominated People's Party hold little say in the state. The state is politically connected to neighboring and the.


 * (Capital: )

More Expansion for New Netherland



 * Clipperton Island


 * Mostly on the grounds that the island is claimed by France. My idea is that NN claims the island instead, and would become something of a way-station for the Nicaragua Canal.


 * Kiribati (or simply the )

Like always, I would love for this to work but fate usually isn't on my side (but I'll give this a try).

I recently found a few key arguments which may support the notion of the becoming territory of New Netherland. These arguments include:


 * (which is an unorganized incorporated territory of the United States) was officially claimed by a New Yorker (though this was under the ).


 * Spain appears to have had residual claim to, which New Netherland could use as an argument to the islands.


 * 's expedition confirmed many islands in the region (including the ). Wilkes also coined the name "Kingsmill Group" which was used for the Gilbert Islands (Kiribati).

Capitals for Carolina and New England
will be 's capita. Boston will be part of a federal district (not part of Massachusetts). This federal district will consists of as it was in 1793 (excluding  and ). What remains will contain the name "Suffolk" (not ). Boston would later annex all the territory in this district, but would be smaller than OTL.

will be the capital of, and it too will be within a capital district. This district would likely consist of the Charleston Peninsula and may include. St. Philip's & St. Michael's Parish?

's capital will still be. It will be included in a diamond-shaped capital district the same size as the District of Columbia. The northernmost point of this diamond will be at the northern border point of the and the. This district will include the majority of Harrisburg and the surrounding areas of Cumberland, Dauphin, and York counties. The district will be along the border of two Pennsylvanian states.