Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flp back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
Maps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

I missing my 20% of Sundabang (war finished 1649). I'm missing the vassalisation of Oudh by Bihar (1648). I am also missing Mataram's expansion into Sundabang before the war as well as the incorporation of the Orissan Rajputs into my nation (happened 1647). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:21, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * First, i had not noticed how many years that war would take, your vassalization of Oudh was too fast, and i didn't notice the last one.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok. I thought 5 or 6 years was enough, but ok. And Ok. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:56, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * So didn't see.because i thought you spent only two turns.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:58, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

You did Russia and Novorossiya(Texan colony) wrong another time. I own those three bloody little "states" and you did novorossiyan expansion wrong! why do you keep doing russia completely wrong and ignoring my previous corrections  every single time.  I'll fix it yet again because you seem to get out of your way to screw with russia's borders and revert it to how you  want them to be not how they should be. -Lx (leave me a message) 21:28, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know the problem might lie with you posting after every turn finishes. Food for thought. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!)21:31, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is still the question of what's the limit of when war results can be coupled.Forty years seems unlikely.but your expansion on them wasn't added because of forgetfulness, in fact.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

I am confused where my nation, the Somali Sultanate is. In 1645 the Somali Sultanate was on the coast of the Horn of Africa, now in 1650 it is in inland Horn of Africa. I was wondering where the location of the Somali Sultanate is. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 23:38, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Somebody warned me that your nation was in the wrong location.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:58, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * And in addition to the question above, I would also like to state that I do control Adal. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:31, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't know when your war would end, and i don't know what's the time limit for the results of two wars to be coupled.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:58, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Labelled Map


So I was bored and updated the labelled map. BTW this is as of 1630.AP (talk) 01:10, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

How do you put the subtitles on it? so i could make my own maps later.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:16, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There are some mistakes on that map in terms of territories, e.g. Comchellak is much larger and Arabia own all of the Tanzanian spice islands. But other than that it is good. Also Comchellak is a vassal of the Arabian federation and its full name is the Republic of Comchellak. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:46, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Its a great map. Just Bijapur is part of Orissa proper so it would be Orissa to. But great map. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:53, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

For Japan, there's a misspelling. It should be Mononobe, not Monobe. -Kogasa   2013年3月09日 23:06:13 (JST)

Thanks so much. It looks awesome! CourageousLife (talk) 16:28, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

I just fixed all of the things you guys pointed out.AP (talk) 22:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Religion Map


Since Callumthered had asked me what was the situation of Catholicism on Europe, i went to do a coloured map of this.it got big, so now this became a incomplete world map.dark blue represents Kappelists, blue represents breakaway churches, light blue represents Catholicism, light green represents Nestorianism, green represents Islam, and yellow-brownish represents orthodoxy.it is still incomplete.Obviously, this is political too, as some nations will have some state religion, but the population will follow other one.Anyway, i don't know the Arabian Federation's state religion, to start with.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:48, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian federation doesn't have a state religion, its dominantly Islamic though. Many branches of Islam though, but I'd say Sunni or Ibadi Islam to be dominant. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:51, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There would be a lot more ortododox wrong...-Lx (leave me a message) 19:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:36, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Russia is very wrong on that map. just look at the russia I made, and then you will see the real face of orthodoxy. you did your annexations horibly wrong. you made moscow a seperate state, and now Minsk is not longer in personal union. You should realy use my map, because at this point I think you just want an excuse to piss me off so you can purposefuly get me banned.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:07, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The latter is not the case.in fact, i sometimes think that Scraw is being implausible just to have something to complain about, so he can get me to quit.We might be able to work this out, when it comes to Minsk.are you a hereditary monarchy?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Russia has an old novgorodian style Elective Monarchy. The Tsar was a firm believer in Russian unification, and once he gianed the title of Tsar of Minsk through marriage, since he wanted at the least unified russian realm under one Ruler, and he did not want his efforts to be in vain when he died in case his son did not become the next Tsar(elective monarchy) so he had the two Crowns linked, although he kept the title of duke of minsk to his own family, the title of Tsar of Minsk and Tsar of Novgorod and Russia were linked. I find it is good logic, but If that's too complicated you can consider it like an act of union/annexatoin and ignore the part about a seperate Duma being built in Minsk.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Yes, this sounds like a good logic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:27, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Just saying, but shouldn't Bijaur be hindu? Considering I have expanded my influence there and introduced anti-muslim laws and the Trimurts have been converting people like crazy? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 07:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Tibet
Topaz has been gone for way too long. His last contribution was on the 9th of February and he said he'd be gone for a few weeks. This is way more than a few weeks. I think we should label him as inactive and break Tibet down. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 23:40, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Get rid of his vassals & stuff for sure, but Tibet collapsing into civil disarray may not be the best course of action. Perhaps just a change of dynasty and designating it as a NPC. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:34, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

If you guys haven't noticed, I had Lanna, Ava, and Shan declare independence from Tibet as Burma.AP (talk) 01:21, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

YEah that's part 1, what about Nepal, Bhutan? Have them leave Tibetan vassalage in 1649? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:52, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I think that Bhutan would fall into civil disarray.it is bigger than OTL Bhutan, so ethnical conflicts could happen, although i don't know the demography of the region right east of Bhutan to say it with surety.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Still, the most sensible course of action would be splitting Bhutan in two.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:19, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'll be moving in soon XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:56, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Map
Could someone create a map of this size with modern day borders on it, or is there already one made? Some of my borders are similar to modern day borders, but I don't know where they'd be on this map. CourageousLife (talk) 19:52, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia
Total: 56
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (+5, +2) = +7
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L+4), Maynila (SV+1), Cagayan (SV+1), Mindoro (SV+1), Orissa (M), Godavari (MV) = +12/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 12/3 = +4
 * Economy: 8/3 = +3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +7
 * Edit Count: 2036
 * UTC Time: 1*7*4*6 = 168
 * (2036/168) * pi = 38.07311096
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7 (+10) = +17
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5

Adal
Total: 33
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Adal (L+4): 4/7 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/8= +0
 * Economy: 3/8 = +0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Ethiopian victory ((56/(56+33))*2)-1 = = 25.8%. Ethiopian can take 21.53% of Adalese territory over next three years.

Combining this with their previous score of 15.3%, Ethiopia is able to topple the Adalese government (21.5 + 15.3 = 36.8%).

Disscussion
You have to count the amount of years spent as a leader in a war, not how many wars.AP (talk) 01:14, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, well thanks for that. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 06:47, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

You also count if you send supplies or military aid to help in any other wars where you weren't a leader. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:56, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Your war should be over by next year with you winning against Adal (1649 - It should be on the map). I shortened down the war so it was over more quickly. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:39, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome! :D Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:19, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus and allies
Total: 44
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Cyprus (L), Crete (MV), Venice (M), Croatia (S), Greece (S), Naples (S), Piedmont (S), Thrace (S), Three Sicilies (S), Albania (S), Rome (M) = 26/4 = 6.5 = 7
 * Military Development: 30/5 = 6
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit Count: 511
 * UTC Time: 5:48 = 5*4*8 = 160
 * 10.0335 = 3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Cyrenaica
Total: 42
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Cyrenaica (L) = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit Count: 511
 * UTC Time: 5:48 = 5*4*8 = 160
 * 10.0335 = 5
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((44/(40+44))*2)-1 = (44/84*2)-1 = 0.04762 (0.04762)*(1-1/(12)) = 0.04762*0.91667 = 0.0437

If the war lasts for 6 years, Cyprus can take 4.4% of Cyrenaican land, centered around Benghazi.

Discussion
Are any of Venice's vassals going to help me also? Just wondering. Airlinesguy (talk) 11:41, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Rome is helping DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It

Cyrenaica's population would probably be 6, and their age 0, as they only appeared after the Caliphate's collapse.there were also mistakes on the NPC bonus.-Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:31, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Russia
Total:58
 * Location:4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6(5+1)
 * Strength: Russia(L)/Minsk(M)/Obdorsk(MV) = 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 8/3= 2.66...~3
 * Economy: 14/3 = 4.66...~5
 * Infrastructure:N/A
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:9
 * Edit Count: 3664
 * UTC Time: 22:10=2*2=4
 * (3664/4)*pi=2877.6988
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population: 28(20+8)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Sibir
Total:42
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 0
 * Military Development:0
 * Economy:0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion:0
 * Motive:10
 * Chance:8
 * Edit Count:  3664
 * UTC Time:  22:10=2*2=4
 * (3664/4)*pi=2877.6988
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Crushing Russian victory.With the approx 27% of territory taken in the first invaison, Russia can take at most (((58/100)-0.5)*2)*100= 16% of sibirian territory, with 1 year of warfare, Russia can take 0.5*16 = 8% of the territory. 8+27 = 35%. Russia can take enough to crumble the Sibir State into ashes and take it over.

Even More Discussions
Remember your wars against Syktyvar, Komi & Samara? You seem to have missed them out from your recent war section. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:03, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

The 1st war with sibir should have been at least 15 years before, so should not count, Syktyvar and Komi were not in civil dissaray(at least I believed that, does not matter at all anyway I would have killed them all regardless). I got -1 from each(-2), and -2 from Samara. -2-2=-4. That was my reasoning. Well, if you want them to be -2 each I dont very much care. its just -6 then. all I need is 8% anyway. I couldn't care less. you said yourself that i had untill 1667 to kill sibir, but if the previous war counts aswell if you want to add then I dont realy care i only need 8%-Lx (leave me a message) 14:56, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say -2 for each, and 1648-15=1633 which is when your second invasion began. And yes this doesn't change the outcome but we got to make sure the rules are being followed now don't we? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:03, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

I just put this up so I dont have to cerate a section when this does happen...and it will happen. I wasnt planning on doing the war in 1648, but now that I think about it, it would be awesome to have it on the 1650 map and I can invade ukraine in the 1660s 1670s.-Lx (leave me a message) 18:35, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Just a quicky question, I will only do 1 year of war, but can I just do war in 1650, and end in the 1650 turn?-Lx (leave me a message) 22:24, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Rome
Total: 48 (so far)
 * Location: +5 (At the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6 (Attackers Advatange, larger Colonial Empire)
 * Nations: Rome (L+4), Venice (M), Croatia (S), Greece (S), Naples (S), Piedmont (S), Thrace (S), Three Sicilies (S), Albania (S), Crete (M), Cyprus (S): +26/4 = 7
 * Military Development: ?/3 =
 * Economic Development: ?/3 =
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Chance:
 * ​Edits:
 * UTC time:​
 * Motive: +3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +17
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Georgia-Armenia
Total: 34 (so far)
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: (Georgia-Armenia (L)): 4/26 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/?
 * Economy: 3/?
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Population: 6
 * Nation age: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussison
Cyprus is (M) not (S). Airlinesguy (talk) 22:26, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

And, a +7 is awarded for: "Fighting for your nation's dominant religion, against a nation which is severely increasing discrimination, increasingly restricting access to or damaging holy sites, brutally opposing conversion attempts, or has recently changed its religion/denomination".First, Georgia and Armenia have no reason to be Muslim, as i have already said, and even if you tried to claim the last one, even if they were Muslim, this would have happened 60 years ago.not exactly recently.And the high ground part is very doubtful, as Erzurum might not be on your territory, since given your nation's territory, on best case, it would be yours, but basically on the border with Persia.on worst case, it is Persian and on the border with you.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:37, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa
Total: 60
 * Location: 4 (using Mataram)
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Godavari (MV), Mataram (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 12/3 = 4
 * Economic: 8/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 5803
 * Time: 19:17 = 63
 * (5803/63)*pi = 289.37559
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6

Sundabang
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/12 = 0
 * Economic: 3/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Phase 1
Orissan victory. I will need my allies to help me. ((60/(60+35))*2) - 1 = 26.3%

Orissa can currently claim 26.3*1.5 = 39.4% of the nation. War goes on two years, letting Orissa claim 19.73% of Sundabang in the first phase of this war.

Discussion
Now, from where did you took that 6210? Your main edits were 5803.And, i think that civil disarray counts as a government change, so their nation age would be -5.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 10:11, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Well, I have the 6000 edits on wiki pages badge (which only counts for main articles), and I had 6211 edits when I posted my turn, so 6210 before war. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:36, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Second Retirement
Sorry that this took so long to reveal, but I have decided to retire from AltHistory Wiki for the second time. I didn't know if I should have said anything, since I didn't want to be overdramatic like last time.

I'm gonna be honest, for some reason, it hasn't been the same. Everytime, it seems like someone has to pull the "implausogasm" card every second paragraph, whether or not it really was. This has happened on every map game I've been to lately, even Axis vs Allies Reborn, which was supposed to be relatively looser on rules.

Sorry if I sound rude, though I've had some good moments. Besides I now have more work to do, so I won't be as available. Thanks though for the good times from any friends I may have here.

Who knows, maybe I'll return for the third time? Also, I have no complaints about my France having collapsed in this Map Game, since that country was the only thing keeping me from leaving. If possible, Burgundy or the Netherlands can take control of whatever is not in chaos. Stewdio333 (talk) 04:58, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Colonial Limit
The limit for colonies is seven, as far as I know. However, it has come to my attention that Scandinavia has not seven, but ELEVEN colonies. As far as I'm concerned, this has been going on discretely for quite a long time, and the fact that no one noticed this (especially the map makers) comes to me as a shock. I don't know what will be done about this, but something must be done about this.
 * Newfoundland colony
 * Nova Scotia colony
 * Hudson Bay colony
 * Southern Maine colony
 * New Jersey/Pennsylvania colony
 * Virginia/Carolina colony
 * Inca colony
 * Somalian colony
 * Swahili colony
 * Bengal
 * Indonesia colony

00:08, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Bengal is a puppet. So are the Incas. They have 9, and the last time I checked I thought 9 was the limit. Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:15, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

No, the Aymaras are puppets, not the Incas. Even if Bengal is a puppet, 10 is above your guessed limit of 9 and the actual limit of 7.

00:19, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, To explain:Newfoundland was a vassal that declared independence this year, not a colony,and the "Southern Maine colony is part of the Nova Scotia colony, and Bengal is a puppet.Even then, i think i heard somewhere that there were no limits for the quantity of colonies this time, but i'm not sure if this is true.And the Aymarás are not puppets, or vassals.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:53, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

There are no limits to the total number of colonies as long as you do not start more that 2 every 50 years and have a maximum of 3 at the end of the 1940s. Scandinator (talk) 07:15, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Explaination for this is that many nations OTL had many, many colonies. Scandinator (talk) 07:24, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Venice
Total: 43 + Chance
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Venice (L), Piedmont (MV), Naples (MV), Three Sicilies (MV), Croatia (MV), Albania (MV), Montenegro (MV), Greece (MV), Thrace (MV): 20/4=5
 * Military Development: 6/2 = 3
 * Economy: 6/3 = 2
 * Infrastructure:n/a
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8 + 2 = 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0 (Malaccan War ended 15 years before this one)
 * Recent Wars: 0 (Malaccan War ended 15 years before this one)

Bosnia-Serbia
Total: 24 + Chance
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Bosnia-Serbia (L): 4=0
 * Military Development: 2=0
 * Economy: 3=0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0