Talk:Principia Moderni III (Map Game)

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Algo Template (WIP)
This algo template is being worked on in order to standardize algos, which will make it simpler for mods to check them and fix them. Once this algo template is declared official, a mod (probably me) will declare that at the start of the turn following the declaration, all algos must follow this format and if not, they will not be regarded as valid.

Feel free to comment about the algo template, suggest something that would increase it's effectivity, ask questions, or even suggest changes to the algo. Note that no matter what, nothing but the hundreth/thousandth digit of the Edit Count / UTC time * pi will be bolded in the algo.

Cheers, SkyGreen24 17:33, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

===Attacker=== *Location: **Location Bonus: *Tactical Advantage: *Nations Per Side: *Military Development: *Economic Development: *Expansion: *Motive: **Modifiers: *Chance: **Edits: **UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = ** /  * pi = *Nation Age: *Population: *Participation: *Number of Troops: *Theaters of War: *Concurrent Wars: Total: ===Defender=== *Location: **Location Bonus: *Tactical Advantage: *Nations per side: *Military Development: *Economy Development: *Infrastructure: *Expansion: *Motive: **Modifiers: *Chance: **Edits: **UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = ** /  * pi = *Nation Age: *Population: *Participation: *Recent Wars: *Troops strength: *Theaters of War: *Concurrent Wars: Total: ===Result=== ===Discussion===

Industrial algo update
Due to us beginning to drive into the industrial age, the algo needs to be updated accordingly, With this having happened in PMII with decent success (and one of our redeeming qualities that someone always updates the maps usually) we will be replicating this here (support was shown by multiple mods a few of which were PMII veterans.) This will be represented on a map much like the Game map, but with the colors replaced to represent differing industrial levels and when they started. A Chart to represent will go below this post and just above that a map (currently in progress) will be posted to represented our first industrializers. In extenuating circumstances the chart can be superceded to show a change in industrial development quicker than represented on the chart but this will only be for Meiji, or rapid German industrialization efforts.

In the algo a n algorythm multiplier would be applied to all wars with the side with a higher stage gaining 10% extra for each stage higher they are. an example would be in a war between Britain and France, the British are 3 stages ahead of the French in terms of industrial development (for whatever circumstance caused this) the British would multiple their ending score by 1.3.

If anyone is wondering, currently industrialization will be mostly in europe with a select few nations outside of the continent it would be currently taking place (nations with a realistic reason to adopt it as such such as asian nations with a extremely anti-colonial attitude, or something along the lines of Japan.) Industrialization in the Americas (when stuff goes independent) will depend on how the territory is when it gains independence and will more than likely have to be handled on a case by case basis like the outside of Europe industrializers. Stage 1= Stage 2​= Stage 3= Stage 4​= Stage 5= Stage 6​= Stage 7=
 * The Air Furnace is developed
 * Agriculture begins to rapidly shift with fertilizers and rest years for the fields
 * Chemistry develops in leaps and bounds
 * Steam Power is developed and water wheels are heavily utilized
 * Various chemicals are produced in large amounts
 * Health care and anatomic understanding improve, birth rates still high but death rates on a massive decline
 * Urbanisation begins on a significant scale
 * Paper mills develop with the tech to produce large reels of paper
 * Cloth factories begin using machines and steam power to increase productivity massively to keep up with population boom's clothing demand
 * Some revolutionary rumbles appear
 * Experimental Railways begin to crop up
 * Stronger cements are produced
 * Steel and Glass are avaliable
 * A few colonies and nations will have rebellions in this period
 * Ironclads and Artillery become widely used in combat
 * Revolutions by poorer citizens in cities become frequent
 * Wide use of civilian and military purpose use railways
 * Tanks and planes appear
 * Total War emerges with populations also targetted
 * Nationalism appears in larger multicultural nations
 * Atomic age begins a decade before the start of this age with certain nations able to make nuclear weapons
 * Wars between atomic powers CEASE, due to the threat and consequences of nuclear war
 * Colonies rebel for independence

Discussion
As Said Above, Industrialization aside from a few cases (and a case by case evaluation of tier jumps such as a US/German rapid industrialization, or a Japan Meiji or an Asian anti colonial reasoning) will be mostly within Europe and the Americas initially. As a relatively new person to the industrial tier buisiness i will be consulting PMII vets on how it was implemented but for right now due to ease the only two current industrializing states are France and Spain (and the other particulars will be worked out before another one joins the mix). Please bear with us while i gather the needed information to implement this properly.

The intended purpose of this is to prevent an unindustrialized state such as a disorganized tribe being able to deal a true and terrible blow to the Great industrial powers since this rarely happened, (and when it did it was usually due to vast numerical superiority, and even then it only happened once or twice). This is also to simulate a war and the vast advantages provided by industry in this case.

In the case of colonies, that can/will be handled by the mother nation. Plausibly most nations did not let directly owned colonies to industrialize (which is in fact represented by the fact that most colonies will be represented by the mother nations industrial colors). Colonies, under certain circumstances will be allowed to industrialize independently, and due to the access to technology and depending on their terms of industrialization (if they fought a 15 year war of independence like most of Spain OTL colonies) then industrialization will be a rather tough thing to propose to a new nation that would be essentially bankrupt right off the bat. Colonies that Gain Self rule or co-opting rule of any kind will also be able to industrialize in most cases due to the relatively open nature in which its being done. However a problem with this is how will you as a Colonial power manage your self ruling colonies industrial policy without inciting revolt.

This Era must be played carefully while the pertinent information is being discussed please be patient, but for now play on, enioy the game, and plan your moves Carefully

Map Issues
''' The issues of the previous map shall be cleared after each map to save up space, unless a discussion is still going on. '''

I believe that should be all the issues at the present time. I am aware I did not factor in the split of Arcadia, but I did that mainly because I don't know the exact division of vassals and so forth, so I will wait for Kras and Sat to offer details. Other than that, that should be the correct version of the map at the time being.

Edit: I notice that I forgot to add something belonging to Kras because I thought the previous version of the map had it. If he would post that map again I will add it as soon as time allows.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 17:16, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

Just to clear up a couple of the issues above, Algonquia looks like this now, following the conquest of Arcadia. I don't know exactly what Sat's doing with his part. Shikata ga nai! 22:21, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

In the last 20 years, the Commonwealth of Borealia (now the Union of Borealia merged with New Bavaria) expanded significantly. This is what it looks like now:Nathan1123 (talk) 18:47, May 17, 2015 (UTC)



Please remember New Mecklenburgs 750px per turn expansion since the last map. And since my European territories have long since united, please remove the borders separating them. I am that guy (talk) 23:55, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

In the last 35 years from 1835 to 1870, the Kingdom of Morocco has expended virtuously and stronger, with 10,000 sq km per turn and 100,000 sq km per ten years. Totally, Morocco has expended by 200 px per turn and 2000 px per ten years. This is what it the Moroccan map looks like now.

It appears that Neu Baltrum (otl Jan Mayen) and the Shetlands are coloured in the Scandinavian yellow. However, Jan Mayen has been Oldenburger territory since 1449, and whilst Oldenburg handed the Faroes to Scandinavia in an 1815 deal , it was specified that the Shetlands would remain Oldenburger. Could the next map please be altered to reflect this? Thank you, Callumthered (talk) 01:07, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

Labelled


These great and wonderful maps have been made and labelled by Scandinator. Please be sure to thank him for his intense dedication and deep-level research that he put into these maps.

Cultural


Now, I will attempt to list the myriad of cultures that are represented on the map. To do so, I will go by continent.

It is finished! 01:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Religious Map
Alright, added another religion map. Map is based off of the 1655 Map. Same rules apply: List all changes below in the Notes section.

18:46, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

Color Key

All regions are shown according to their plurality religion.

Catholicism is yellow; the Western Church nations are shown in dark gold, and Catholic states whose churches function independently of the Roman Church are shown in pale yellow. Ludwigism is shown in bright gold. Eastern Orthodoxy is orange; Oriental Orthodox sub-branches are burnt orange. *Reformism is red. Sunni Islam is lime green, Shia Islam is forest green; Ibadiyya Islam is dark green, Assafi Islam is bright green, and Paganistic Islam is mint green. The Mastorava is teal blue, Hinduism is sky blue, and Buddhism is dark blue; the Bon religion is pale blue, and Mongolian Buddhism is grey-blue. Confucianism is purple, while Shintoism is violet. Other "pagan" religions are pink; the Mesoamerican pantheon is light pink, the South American pantheon is hot pink, the North American pantheon is fuchsia, and the African pantheons are all dark pink. Other religions will be added as needed.

Notes
 * Added Charismatic Christianity and Mogul Khanate is now Charismatic king Trevor 1 of wales (talk) 12:38, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Mod Event Grievances
Just so that it doesn't clutter the page, please post your mod event questions, comments and grievances here. This -should- be archived every five years.

=General Discussion=

Intro
As we all know, the PMIII algo is seriously biased towards the number of nations participating. And so, the mods (mostly me, Crimmyboo and MP) set forth to find a solution. And Pita suggested his new algo for AvA, which I decided to look into.

So I did. Since Pita is Asian, his mathematical skills are unsurpassed, which allowed me to more or less take the algo, with minor tweaks and adjustments. I hope you all read it through and give me your opinion on it.

Note: The industrial update will have a heavy impact on the algo, since we lack tiers. Second note: I'm using tabbers now, tabbers are cool. EDIT: Tr0ll doesn't like my tabbers. Third note: Numbers are not rounded up/down anymore. Everything stays the way it is.

Location
Location is a tricky one, since it usually only factors in the distance, while I also want to factor in the speed of transport etc.

Mostly, location goes by capital city, however I disagree with that. It will also include locations that are militarized (i.e. Rhein area pre-WW2). As you might've noticed, all but the 'at' locations are italicized. Why? Well, because the infrastructure and industrial development of a nation highly impact its ability to mobilize and get to a location in a set time period. Which is why each of the 7 stages will be given a multiplier that will affect the location.
 * At the location of war: +15
 * Next to the location of war: +8
 * Close to the location of war: +4
 * Far from the location of war: -4
 * Other side of the world: -8

Tactical advantage
This one will not be impacted by industrial stages, atleast not until modern times.
 * Attacker’s advantage: +2
 * Defender’s advantage: +5
 * Surprise attack: Attackers +6
 * Home is island: Defenders +4
 * Home is desert: Defenders +6
 * Home is jungle/tropical: Defenders +8
 * Home is tundra/arctic: Defenders +10 in winter, +12 in spring
 * Amphibious landing: Defenders +6

Strength
I decided to stay true to the ol' PMIII algo and thus, strength won't be that similar to AvA. Instead, a system similar to PM's Nation-per-side will be used.
 * L - +Industrial stage
 * M - +0.75 Industrial stage
 * S - +0.5 Industrial stage
 * V - -0.25 Industrial stage
 * 3 or more V and PU (PU=L) - -0.25 per extra V/PU (starting from the third one)
 * Much larger economy - +5
 * Larger economy - +3
 * Better military (weapons, armour, training, number etc.) - +3
 * Fully mobilized - +3
 * Naval dominance: +5

Motive
Motive was obviously going to be more PMIII-akin than Ava-akin, however I also decided to add a Sky twist to it. Vassal motive:
 * Economic (Gains land, resources, etc): + 3
 * Aiding Ally: + 3
 * Defending territory not held for more than 20 years: + 4
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 5
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike against a nation rapidly building military forces: + 5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral/Ideological/Religious Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 7
 * Attacking to enforce political hegemony: +7
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 5
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10 (pre-nuclear era), + 15 (post-nuclear era)
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 10
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 15
 * If a vassal that is fighting has revolted within the last 30 years, its motive is multiplied by 0.75

Motive is averaged

Morale
Morale is now separated from motive, as motive only affects the soldiers, while morale affects the whole population of a nation. Total morale is calculated in the same way as motive
 * Non-democratic Government: -2
 * Democratic government: +3
 * Government not supported by people: -10
 * WAR not supported by people (democratic) : -3
 * WAR not supported by people (non-democratic): -2
 * Troop Morale high (requires motive over or equal to 5, chance over 4, and larger strength: +5
 * Troop Morale low (any of the following: chance below 1, srength less or equal to 50% of opponents, recent war penalty over 8): - 5
 * Fighting Guerrilla War: -5 attacker, + 1 defender
 * Multiple concurrent wars: -10 (per nation and its vassals and PUs)
 * Defeat suffered within the previous two years: -2 per defeat

Chance
Good ol' chance. This one stays the same For NPCs, the chance will be defined as the thousandth place of z, using the exact same algorithm as the player nation.
 * Edit number = x
 * War declaration time digits multiplied (0s are treated as 1s) = y
 * x/y*pi = z
 * Chance = Hundredth place of z

Population

 * The population score is the number of digits in the population + the additional bonus, which is below:
 * +2 to the larger nation that is less than five times the population of the smaller.
 * +10 if the larger nation is between five and ten times the population of the smaller.
 * +20 if the larger nation is more than ten times the population.

Nation age
Goes by the last major change in the system of government.
 * Newborn nation (less than 5 years since gov change; 3 years if popular revolt) = -10
 * Young nation (5–25 years since government change) = -5
 * Maturing nation (25–75 years) = +0
 * Mature nation (75–200 years) = +5
 * Old nation (200–300 years) = +0
 * Ancient nation (300–500 years) = -5
 * Antique nation (more than 500 years) = -15

Recent wars

 * -2 for Leadership in any war in the past 15 years.
 * -1 for and Military or supply support in the past 15 years

Troop number
Same as old algo, the larger gets divided by the smaller.

Other stuff

 * Participation: +10
 * Treaty breaking: -5
 * Alliance breaking: -10
 * -1 per turn you have expanded.
 * If your nation has recently had a popular revolt soon after a new weak government was formed (like Adolf Hitler or Napoleon Bonaparte) your score is multiplied by 1.5 for all wars in the next ten years. However, you cannot have multiple popular revolts of this nature in a row without government changes in between.
 * City-states get a *0.5 modifier for the amount of territory they lose in the initial results algorithm and can take territory so long as the nation they take it from has territory to take close enough for the city-states to rule without it being considered a colony.
 * If you take 33.33% of your opponent's territory or more, you can topple their government and do whatever is plausible to their nation that you wish.
 * It may be implausible for a nation to take or lose the full amount of territory listed in the algorithm.
 * You can add together winning percentage scores in order to total 33.33% if all of the wars happened within a 30 year period.
 * A popular revolt requires over 33.33% to be put down, while one that isn't popular only requires a victory.
 * Small ports (e.g. Shanghai, Hong Kong), cannot be a nation in a war unless that port specifically is being attacked.
 * For measuring the length of wars, the turn war is declared counts as the first year if fighting takes place in it. So for example, if the algo says the war lasts three years, then the turn the war was declared counts as the first IF the target was also invaded. It is possible to not invade the turn war is declared, although this gives the enemy the possibility of mobilizing.

Result
The same as before.

(x/(x+y))*2-1=z

z*(1-1/(2*t))=%

Post your opinions below, hopefully with constructive criticism.

Algo reform discussion
Can we remove the tabs? All they're doing is hiding the content and making it harder to read. Also what does this reform do to address the actual problems that led to it? What does it do for vassals, for example? Also with this system an independent Gotland would probably repulse the entire Empire of Scandinavia, since they'd get +29 in tactical advantage alone. Tr0llis (talk) 16:25, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Here's what I'd rather see, instead of basically all of this (EDIT: When I said all of this I meant location and tactical advantage. Sky has since edited to add more, which I have yet to read). Note I did not write this, and it is not finished. it's just a snippet I found: {{Hidden|snippet|

Location
Location goes by attacker's closest territory and defender's targeted territory, in which fighting actively takes place.

Attacker


 * 20 - Borders territory of enemy where fighting is actively taking place, in same continent
 * 15 - Attacking territory on the same continent, traveling primarily by land.
 * 10 - Attacking distant territory on the same continent or across major bodies of water; attacking neighboring subcontinents or regions (France to Russia, United Kingdom to Denmark, Germany to Syria).
 * 5 - Attacking territory on a distant continent (United States to Germany, Spain to Mexico).

Defender


 * 25 - Defending territory is part of core territory/homeland; area under attack is near capital or in easily accessible area from it.
 * 20 - Defending neighboring territory within home continent.
 * 15 - Defending distant territory or important/large territory on another continent (United Kingdom defending Canada or India).
 * 10 - Defending vastly distant or minor possession (United Kingdom defending Singapore).

Each nation or possession involved in combat gets a location, and each location is added up then divided by number of nations per that side.

Supply Lines
Attacker
 * 10 - Attacking an area that borders core sections of nation; easily accessible to troops and supplies.
 * 5 - Attacking distant area on continent, or via amphibious landing.
 * 0 - Attacking on the other side of the world, and/or with amphibious landing.

Modifiers
 * Added to each nation that is less than ten for supply lines:
 * 2 - Attacker has major empire at least twice as large as home nation.
 * 2 - Attacker has supporting fleet connecting their home nation to battlefield.
 * 2 - Attacker has intermediary territory between their home nation and the battlefield that can be used to supply or safe guard ships.
 * Added once:
 * -10 - Subjected to scorched earth retreat.
 * -10 - Blockade completely cutting off supplies to front lines.

Defender
 * 10 - Defending home territory or neighboring/nearby areas.
 * 5 - Defending disconnected or distant territory.

Modifiers
 * Added to each nation that is less than ten for supply lines:
 * 2 - Defender has major empire at least twice as large as home nation.
 * 2 - Defender has supporting fleet connecting their home nation to battlefield.
 * 2 - Defender has intermediary territory between their home nation and the battlefield that can be used to supply or safe guard ships.
 * Added once:
 * -10 - Subjected to scorched earth retreat.
 * -10 - Blockade completely cutting off supplies to front lines.

Tactical Advantage
Attacker
 * 25 - Utilizes blitzkrieg or rapid overpowering by advanced technology or superior numbers (WW2 Germany, Revolutionary France, European Subjugation of natives).
 * 20 - Is on equal footing to defender in terms of technology.
 * 15 - Amphibious landing or distant invasion; charge against superior defenses.
 * 10 - Raid or low quality attack.

Modifiers (Once per side)
 * Superior Numbers: 5
 * Siege weapons or artillery: 5

Defender
 * 20 - Defending

Modifiers (Once per side) }}
 * Superior Numbers: 5
 * High quality fortifications: 5

Tr0llis (talk) 16:30, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Could've atleast waited till I finish it. However I will look into it. SkyGreen24 16:47, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

EDIT: I tried to implement the snippet version in previous algos, and it just doesn't cut it (note: I used 1 on 1 algos, to avoid the issues of the previous algo). I'm going to use the initial one, but with an adapted tactical advantage. SkyGreen24 18:17, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Just a question, could we have a mock war with multiple nations per side just to see how its implemented for future reference?-Lx (leave me a message) 20:23, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Sure, but I need ideas for participants, if you could help mayhaps? SkyGreen24 16:34, April 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * A war with multiple indian states perhaps? that area of the world is both fractured and devoid of player-states it seems.-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 19:48, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Results

 * The dark green portion of the map is ceeded to the Commonwealth of BorealiaBorealia1.png
 * The remaining portion of California is set up as an independent government economically and politically dependent on Borealia (but as an NPC, not a vassal)
 * The Curia will pay the local governments of California monetary compensation for any inconvenciences.

Proposed Rational

 * We have been influencing the region for over 25 years (since 1803 I think). That entitles us to 50% of Calfornia's territory
 * Because this is more than 33%, this also entitles us to vasselize the region. However, I will keep it as an NPC so someone else can play it.
 * California's government is in chaos and the local authorities are desparate for change

Discussion
Questions? Concerns? Outrage? Nathan1123 (talk) 18:26, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

That's not how it works, that's French territory. You can't directly cede it.

However, with a long enough influence time you could potentially instigate a revolt in the French territory there, and go to war with France. And now that the new algo is up, I allow it. SkyGreen24 18:40, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

So I'm going to be the guinny pig for testing the new algorithm? Awesome.

As my very first algorithm it will be tricky. Nathan1123 (talk) 18:54, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Borealia
Total: 74.9166...
 * Location: 15+8+4/3=9
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+4+5+3+4+2.25+3
 * Motive: 7+5+7/3=6.33...
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 178
 * UTC (19:15) = 1*9*1*5 = 45
 * 178/45 * pi = 12.42674427
 * Nation Age: 3.33...
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/100,000=1
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

France
Total: 45.5
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4+3+3+3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 4786
 * UTC (19:15) = 1*9*1*5
 * 4786/45 * pi =334.125832
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 100,000/200,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(74.9166.../(74.9166...+45.5))*2-1=0.244290657*1.5=0.366435986

You can topple in 6 years.

Discussion
I opt you let me do the algo, since we're using the new one now. SkyGreen24 19:12, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Be my guest. Nathan1123 (talk) 19:13, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Done, I'm not sure if I should add the civil disarray multiplier tho. SkyGreen24 19:59, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

I assumed I would get it, in light of the recent mod events Nathan1123 (talk) 20:02, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I tweaked the algo further, so we're back at the old result calculation. And yeah, you're getting the multiplier. SkyGreen24 21:56, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Just FYI, Algonquia is sending aid and troops to assist Borealia in the war. Shikata ga nai! 22:48, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I should be recieving considerable aid from New Bavaria, Reme, and Algonquia (didn't see that one coming). Nathan1123 (talk) 00:32, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

I know, I'd just been too lazy to do it. But now it's done. SkyGreen24 07:44, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

For the sake of completeness, Arcadia is also sending military aid Nathan1123 (talk) 15:59, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Reme
Total: 76*1.1=83.6
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3-10
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 87,500/25,000=4
 * Theaters of War:

Nation A
Total: 52
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale -2-5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:

Reme
Total: 81*1.1=89.1
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3+5
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3-10
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 62,500/25,000=3
 * Theaters of War:

Nation B
Total: 52
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale -2-5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:

Results
A: (83.6/(83.6+52))*2-1=0.233038348*1.5=0.349557522

B: (89.1/(89.1+52))*2-1=0.262934089*1.5=0.394401134

B is toppled in 4 years (B is the coastal one)

A is toppled in 11 years

Results
So, given that the last war was more or less open and shut and I don't believe there is any cause to doubt a similar outcome, for the sake of simplicity and efficiency, I'm going to call this as a victory for Castile. "This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:42, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total:101
 * Location:20+15+20=18
 * Location Bonus:+1
 * Tactical Advantage:+1
 * Nations Per Side: Andea (L) Apeac (LV) Brazilian Rebels (L) =+13/3=4.3=4
 * Military Development:58+10+5=73/16=4.5=5
 * Economic Development:52-2=50/7=5.7~6
 * Expansion:-1
 * Motive:7(Brazil)+3(Andea)+3(Apeac)=13/3=4
 * Modifiers:+6+6
 * Chance:8
 * Edits:1903
 * UTC (ABCD) = 0 * 3 * 0 * 7 =21
 * 1903/21 * pi = 284.688
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population:+8+20=28
 * Participation:+10
 * Number of Troops:40k/30k=1, Ships=5/40=0
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Defender
Total:66
 * Location:+25
 * Location Bonus:+1
 * Tactical Advantage:+1
 * Nations per side:Portugal (L)=+5
 * Military Development:13,0
 * Economy Development:7,0
 * Infrastructure:7
 * Expansion:0
 * Motive:5
 * Modifiers:4
 * Chance:8
 * Edits:
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D =
 * / * pi =
 * Nation Age:-15
 * Population:+7
 * Participation:+10
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troops strength:+8
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Result
20% max 10% in 2 years.

Discussion
Most of the Numbers (Scores, Troops, Pop) where confrimed by MP. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 03:28, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

You do understand that we're using the new algo, right? SkyGreen24 08:52, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

No I didn't cause it said WIP.

Attackers
Total:74.15
 * Location:+8(*.75)+8(*.75)+8(1)=6+6+8=20/3=6.6
 * Tatical Advantage: Attacker and Suprise:2+6=8
 * Strengh: Andea (3) Apeac (3-.25) Brazil (4)=9.25
 * Motive: 7(Brazil)+3(Andea)+3(Apeac)=16/3=5.3
 * Morale:Brazil (+3) Andea (+3) Apeac (+3)=+3+5
 * Chance (Same As Above):=8
 * Population:+8+10=18
 * Nation Age:+0
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Numbers (Same as Above):+1
 * Particpation:+10

Defenders
Total:37
 * Location:15*1=15
 * Strenght:+4
 * Motive:+5
 * Morale: (Giving them the benifit of the doubt):+3
 * Chance (same):+8
 * Population:+7
 * Nation Age:-15
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Numbers:+8
 * Participation:+10

Result
33% max

16% in a year, 25% in 2.

Disscussion
Having done this algo, I do have some critiques.

Algonquia
Total: 61.5
 * Location: 8*0.75=6
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 3 + (3 - 0.25) + (3 - 0.25) + 3 = 13.5
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 1443
 * UTC (11:54) = 1*1*5*4 = 20
 * 1443/20 * pi = 226.66591
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 60,000/30,000= 2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: -6

Dutch Newfoundland
Total: 66.25*1.1=72.875
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+4+6
 * Strength: 4-0.75+4+3+5+3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 4375
 * UTC (11:54) = 20
 * 4375/20 * pi = 687.223392973
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 9
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 30,000/60,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:
 * Recent Defeats: -2 (Central America)

Result
(72.875/(72.875+58.5))*2-1=0.1094196

Discussion
This is it for now, I removed the concurrent wars since the mod event clearly states that they had been defeated quickly in 1835 and no further mod events mentioned anything else about that region.

Anyways since this is a defensive war, Netherlands can't take more than 4% although I'm guessing that's enough for the OTL port of St, Johns. SkyGreen24 14:11, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Question?
Now can i topple Galicia's goverment?

Wrto12 (talk) 12:40, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. SkyGreen24 12:45, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total: 85.9
 * Location: +8 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Nations Per Side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: Larger = +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 (Attacking to enforce political hegemony)
 * Modifiers: -2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 7,057
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 2 * 0 * 4 = 8
 * 7/7057 * pi = 0.00311454
 * Nation Age: -5 (5-25 years since government change)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 250,000/70,000 = 2.9
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 61.4
 * Location: +25 (At the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (No defenses, open field, etc.)
 * Nations per side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy Development: Smaller = -2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Modifiers: +4 (Non-democratic Government supported by people)
 * Chance: 3
 * Edits: 0
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = 8
 * 0/8 * pi = 0
 * Nation Age: +0 (Old, 200-300 years old)
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 70,000/200,000 = 0.4
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Result
China seizes 16% of the nation of Manchu in the southern portions.

Castile
RexImperio told me that my country(Castile) owns Navarre(that my country attacked and conquered them...)If thats true(There is an error on the map) then tell me cuase i was planning to invade them and pls correct it.

Please don't forget to sign your posts.

Rimp is mistaken. Castile does not own Navarre at the present time.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:48, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, iirc I invaded and took over Navvare for the short period of time I was playing as them. Saturn120 20:48, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Castile

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2+6
 * Strength: +4
 * Motive: +3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (19:55) = 1*9*5*5 = 16?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 1.744
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 100,000/25,000=4
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0
 * Recent Wars:-2

Total:65

===Navarra ===
 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: +9
 * Morale: -2-2-5
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (19:55) = 2*0*4*2 = 16?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 7,875
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Total:59

Result
4% max

2% in a year

Discussion
Pls correct my culculations as this is my second algorithm

Why are so many nations involved? You should list who is involved in the war. Troop Numbers are way too high for your side. #PraiseRoosevelt. 14:34, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Well Russia is helping me but i have no idea how to put them i am new to algorithms...

Thats not right as i told Russia is supporting me...with their help i am able to take more than 2%...

Mexaco
So i was looking to get back into the game and Saw Mexaco was open so im hoping to take that. Ive already posted and would like to get a lowdown on whats happening there so i can write better posts. Also if its not okay then ill bail on it but it just seemed like a good nation to get back into the game with.

Pretty good actually, they conquered almost all of Central America recently with a few final states left. Saturn120 16:25, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Damn Sat, stahp lying. Hasn't Mexico thing been idle ever since the Treaty of Toledo? I think Britannia and Scandivania controlled it for a certain period of time but doesn't seen like it ever expanded as you suggest. ♣There is no good or evil: only power and those too weak to seek it♣ Mexico Expanded via mod events because players where too lazy/busy to notice the build up, except Hamburg who actually put up a defence. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:54, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mexaca

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 4+3=7
 * Motive: +7
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (00:00) = 1*1*1*1 = 1?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 1.744
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0
 * Recent Wars:-6

Total:38*1.5=57

===Hamburger Empire ===
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +5+8
 * Strength: 4-0.25+4+3=10.75
 * Motive: +5+5=5
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 2980
 * UTC (19:55) = 2*0*4*2 = 1
 * 2980/1 * pi(?) = 9361.9461077
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Total:63.25

Result
(63.25/(57+63.25))*2-1=0.05197505196

Discussion
Not sure how this would change the algo, but Borealia is also sending troops to the Mexacan side. "This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:49, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Was told to do as if Mexico was still NPC. Mexico w/ Borealian aid vs Hamburg and Belize. Feud's newest post says a few million in the nation, so I interpreted that as "less than 10 million). #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:12, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Done. SkyGreen24 18:21, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't this mean that Mexeca lost? Nathan1123 (talk) 19:23, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

It means Mexaca barely wins.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:31, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mexico actually still loses. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:25, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Switch
Could i switch to Japan?Japan's player is inactive for a very long time.I currently play as Castile Wrto12 (talk) 01:15, April 16, 2015 (UTC)Wrto12

Attackers

 * Location:+8(*.75)+8(*.75)+8(1)+8=6+6+8+8=28/4=7


 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker and Suprise:2+6=8


 * Strength: Andea (3) Apeac (2.25-.25) Voyloyclayr(4) Aymara(3-.25) Osean Loyalists (4-.25)=18.5+5+3+3+3


 * Motive:7+(Andea)+3( Vorlayacor)+3(Aymara)=16/3=5.3


 * Morale: Andea (+3) Aymara (+3) Vorlayacor (3) Osean (-2)=+3+5
 * Chance:5
 * Editcount:1978
 * UTC:9:10=9
 * 1978/9=690.452
 * Population:+8+10=18


 * Nation Age:+0


 * Recent Wars:02


 * Numbers:65,000/20000=3.25


 * Particpation:+10

Total:95.05

Defender

 * Location:15*1=15


 * Strength:+4


 * Tactical Advantage:+5


 * Motive:+9


 * Morale: (Giving them the benefit of the doubt):+3


 * Chance:+


 * Population:+7


 * Nation Age:0


 * Recent Wars:0


 * Numbers:0


 * Participation:+10

Total:50

Result
23% taken in the previous war.

32% max

16% in a year

collapsed after 1 year.

Attacker
Total: 75.3
 * Location: +8 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Nations Per Side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: Larger = +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 (Attacking to enforce political hegemony)
 * Modifiers: -2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 7,087
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 3 = 81
 * 81/7087 * pi = 0.0142938
 * Nation Age: -5 (5-25 years since government change)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/70,000 = 4.3
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 61.23
 * Location: +25 (At the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (No defenses, open field, etc.)
 * Nations per side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy Development: Smaller = -2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Modifiers: +4 (Non-democratic Government supported by people)
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 0
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 3 = 81
 * 0/8 * pi = 0
 * Nation Age: +0 (Old, 200-300 years old)
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Troops strength: 70,000/300,000 = .23
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Result
China seizes 16% of the nation of Manchu in the southern portions.

Croatia
Total: 78*1.1=85.8
 * Location: -4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 3517
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 3517/4 * pi = 2762.245341
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 80,000/20,000=4
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Sukadang
Total: 51
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6+4+8
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -10-5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 3517
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 3517/4 * pi = 2762.245341
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(85.8/(85.8+51))*2-1=0.254385964=0.381578947

Toppled in 4 years.

Assyria (Aggressor)

 * Location: Next to the location of the war (+8) = +8
 * Tactical advantage: Attacker (+2), surprise (+6) = +8
 * Strength: Better military (+3) = +3+4+ 2(Rome)
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: Non-democratic (-2) = -2
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit count = 10,414
 * UTC time = 2122
 * Chance = (10,414*pi)/(2*2*2) = 4089.56823681
 * Population: 3,999,999 (+7) = +7
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Troop number: 38,000 = 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Total: 46

Persia (Defender)

 * Location: 15
 * Tactical advantage: Defender (+5) = +5
 * Strength: Much larger economy (+5) = +5+4+4 (Calihpate) +2.25 (Bengal)
 * Motive: Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years (+5) = +5
 * Morale: Non-democratic government (-2) = -2
 * Chance: +8
 * Population: 8,000,000 (+7), greater population (+2) = +9
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Troop number: 76,000/38,000 = +2
 * Participation: +10
 * Total: 62.25

Discussion
Done. SkyGreen24 18:03, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Given that Persia is superior than Assyria in population and resources, I highly doubt that Persia would be able to raise a small force of 8000 whilst Assyria has an army of 38,000.
 * 2) The Caliphate has declared war upon Assyria, and that needs to be added to the algorithm in the form of a second front most likely.
 * 3) Given that you wish to unite the Kurds, your motive would be "Taking territory of similar culture", not "Hegemony

Roman Empire
Total: 78
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5
 * Motive: 6
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 8414
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 8414/4 * pi = 2106.641593
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 80,000/20,000=4
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Antillian Rebels
Total: 56
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6+4+8
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale: +3-5
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(78/(78+56))*2-1=0.164179104

Can't seem to get the second part of the equation to work, but yeah.

Discussion
So I did this based on what I have picked up. If anyone wants to through in any hints, go for it.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:04, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Japanese Empire
Total: 78
 * Location: +8*0.75=6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage) +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Strength: 3+3 (Larger economy)+3 (Better military)+3 (Fully mobilized)+5(Naval dominance)
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +5 (Troop Morale high)-2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 142
 * UTC (6:26) = 6*2*6 =
 * 142/72 * pi = 6.195918845
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 30,000,000 = +8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/100,000=3
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Manchuria
Total: 57
 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: +9 (Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack)
 * Morale: -2-5 (Troop Morale low)
 * Chance: 5
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 15,000,000? =8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:-4 (2 recent wars with China)
 * Troops strength: 100,000/300,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(78/(78+57))*2-1=0.1470588235294118

I have no idea about my Industrial Stage so pls correct that and tell me what's my Industrial Stage so i could do it better next time,also i have no idea how to count my 3 vassals and chance

Discussion
Done. SkyGreen24 21:17, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total: 79
 * Location: +6 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Strength: 3+3+5=11
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale 5-2
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 7,119
 * UTC (23:30) = 2*3*3*1=18
 * 7119/18 * pi = 1242.49989
 * Nation Age: 0 (25-75 years, Maturing Nation)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 600,000/300,000 = 2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 46
 * Location: +15 (At the Location of the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: 3+3=6
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Morale: -10-2-2-2
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -6
 * Troops strength: 300,000/600,000 = 0
 * Theaters of War: 0

Result
(79/(76+46))*2-1=0.264

He needs 33.33% to topple. So. 2 years'll do it.

Discussion
Given that China previously took 16% of China, they would be able to topple Manchu this turn by taking 26-28% more which adds upto around 44%.

However, Japan also took 14% of Manchu which somewhat means that Japan would have 14% of Manchu whilst China would have 86%. Or, China and Japan can just decide this with themselves.

Done. Seems like Dae's topplin.

Borealia
Total: 99*1.4=138.6
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6=8
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3+5=20
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale:+3
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 238
 * UTC (14:21) = 1*4*2*1 = 6
 * (238/6) * pi = 124.6165
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20=28
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/10,000=20
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent wars: -2-1
 * Concurrent Wars:

Kiatagmiut
Total: 64
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+10=15
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale: +3-5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D =
 * / * pi =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength:
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(138.6/(138.6+64))*2 -1 = 0.36821322802

toppled in six years

Discussion
Fixed. SkyGreen24 18:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

I know it's semantics, but as a learning experience:

1. why do they get +3 morale? Is the Kiatagmiut democratic?

2. why don't I get a 1.5 multiplier? why 1.4?

thanks Nathan1123 (talk) 20:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

France
It seems that Sine hasn't posted in forever, and while I apreciate that others continue to cp his posts for turn after turn, it no longer makes any sense whatsoever. Besides the fact that every word in the copied post is now contradicted by world events, it just looks plain ridiculous that France should be so frozen during this time. At least have the decency to throw in some sort of revolt or civil decent to merely expain what's going on. It's the nineteenth century, for crying out loud. You have umpteenth number of OTL revolutions to use as explanation for why France is impenent (not to mention the precedent of Britannia when Trollis was absent).

Rant over Nathan1123 (talk) 04:46, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Considering multiple people have not only been kicked for inactivity, but also for being away and having turns copy-pasted for a long time, it's probably due that Sine is kicked too. Tr0llis (talk) 22:56, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think now through the end of May should be a grace period. Finals tend to kill our player base. Sine is inactive due to IRL issues I think. Crim de la Crème 23:00, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

His last post was on March 4, 1796 Nathan1123 (talk) 23:21, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

If he has been absent for over a century, then he needs to be removed. Ofcourse, whether this happens or not depends on the Mods who don't seem keen on kicking off a 'fellow mod and friend'.

Crim tell that to the people who kicked me out on the fifteenth turn exactly, and to the Moscow player who they kicked on the twelfth turn, which technically isn't even inactive enough. The grace period shouldn't apply only to Sine, not when a half dozen others have been kicked out for much less (in some cases they didn't even miss fifteen turns, they had people copy-pasting for them the whole time, but were simply inactive themselves for a long time). Tr0llis (talk) 14:16, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, not even going to adress what Trollis is bringing up cause those are seperate issue all together. Sine is "inactive" do to the death of his computer. However, Sine is still in contact with Mp via Facebook Moblie. Idk How many of you have tried, but using wikia on a moblie phone is shit. Because Sine can respond to events and diplomacy in the game, he is techniqully not inactive. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:30, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

This is pretty hypocritical. The user Razor lost access to a computer too, but continued to have people post for him and copy and paste what he sent them. Yet the mods, particularly his neighbor Fed, declared that he was still inactive. They said that Razor may be posting still, but he himself had been inactive for too long, and that he shouldn't play an online game if he has trouble getting online. Razor was kicked from his nation because of that. But I'm sure Sine's case is different. Tr0llis (talk) 18:58, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

I don't really care what happens to France, but just so you know Edge, I was kicked out of my nation while technically active too. If past nations are any indicator, it doesn't matter much if you technically still post. Then again I'm not really sure what happened to my nation, and at this point I don't want to continue playing anyway. - Fritzmet (talk)

Sine is inactive because he hasn't responded any events or diplomacy since 1796. That's why France no longer makes any sense. Nathan1123 (talk) 20:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

France has declared war on the Rhineland every year for the past several decades now. Tr0llis (talk) 20:31, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't really make much sense Edge. He isn't posting, people are doing it for him which means he is inactive. Whether he is in contact with MP or not does not matter because he is inactive... One more thing, I also use a mobile phone for the wiki most of the time [Same goes for Sat, he uses an iPad I think which kind of displays the wiki the same as how it is on phone] and I don't see any problem with it. ♣There is no good or evil: only power and those too weak to seek it♣  05:58, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Not really, Rimp. Ive been on a computer and it looks just like it does on my iPad 2, Rimp. Saturn120 23:36, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Bengal Sultanate
Result: 81.25
 * Location: 8+8*0.875/2=7.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Jaunpur] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 21
 * Motive: +6+3/2=4.5
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +8
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 211.5862652
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +18
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops: 225,000/100,000 = 2.25
 * Participation: +10

Deccan Sultanate
Result: 49
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Deccan]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 67.351
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/225,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10

Results
(81.25/(81.25+49))*2 -1 = 0.24760076775

18.5% in two years.

Discussion
Sky, for whatever reason, doesn't like it when you bold things or use the brackets instead of the parenthesis. Thought you should know.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:20, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

However, Sky can live with the bolding stuff. However, what I can't live with is you vassalizing Jaunpur even though there's been numerous cases which had already set the precedent that vassalizing is not easily achievable. SkyGreen24 07:08, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

You see, Jaunpur can easily be vassalized. There is a reason why in otl, the Persians and Afghans could easily move to and fro from Delhi to Kabul. Or how the Marathas easily occupied Delhi without much of a fight... Or why the British soldiers were able to just enter Delhi and place the Mughal Emperor under 'British protection'. Thing is, Jaunpur lacks the capability to maintain its sovereignty and integrity, which has been proven in PM3 as well given the Timurid, Mughal and Urdustani 'vassalization' of Jaunpur. The state of Jaunpur cannot expect to exist for long by itself without controlling either Punjab or Bengal, which is why one rarely ever sees Empires similar to Jaunpur. Even being hostile with either Punjab or Bengal can prove to be deadly for Jaunpur as the state itself lacks the resources and manpower to achieve stability, which makes Jaunpur forced to depend upon others and prone to vassalization. In between Punjab and Bengal, Jaunpur would most likely turn to Bengal, not the Sikh regime in Muslim Punjab. Now, to the main point. A dynastic union already existed between Bengal and Jaunpur since the times of Eip, and it was 'renewed' recently as well. Moreover, Jaunpur depends upon Bengal for import of products and an outlet to the sea. Finally, the British never conquered 'Northern India' either, they vassalized it in the 19th Century using Bengal as a base. Something that is exactly what I am doing. If anything, the Lodis in Jaunpur are probably even weaker than the otl Mughals because while Carnatac and Mysore occasionally swore loyalty to the Mughals and the Afghans often aided them, no one in PM3 has submitted to the authority of Jaunpur.

Borealia
Total: 70*1.5=105
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4+3+3+5=15
 * Motive: 3+5+7=15
 * Morale: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 253
 * UTC (19:39) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 9 = 243
 * 235/243 * pi = 3.2708...
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Number of Troops:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Defender
Total: 32
 * Location: -4
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+4+6=15
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 148
 * UTC (19:39) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 9 = 243
 * 148/243 * pi = 1.9133
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(105/(105*32))*2-1 = 0.5328...

Topple in 2 years

Hashemite Caliphate

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Hashemite Caliphate] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 23.75
 * Motive: +6 [Taking Back Territory Recently Held]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] = -2
 * Chance: +0
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 84

Zand Dynasty

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Persia]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 43

Results
(84/(84+43))*2-1= .32283

.32283*(1-1/(2*t))= .2421 in two years.

Not sure why this wasn't finished, but there.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 18:21, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Nations to pick
Are there any nations I could pick? - QC

Bengal Sultanate
Result: 69.75
 * Location: 8+8*0.875/2=7.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 18
 * Motive: +6
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 1378
 * UTC (06:06): 0*6*0*6 = 36
 * (1378/36)*pi: 120.253185462
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10 [Between 5-10 Times Larger] = +18
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 225,000/100,000 = 2.25
 * Participation: +10

Deccan Sultanate
Result: 45
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Deccan]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +3
 * Edits: 1378
 * UTC (06:06): 0*6*0*6 = 36
 * (1378/36)*pi: 120.253185462
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 100,000/225,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10

Results
(69.75/(69.45+45))*2 -1 = 0.218872

16.4% in two years.

18.5% from last war and now, adds upto 34.9% which is enough to topple.

Reme
Total: 63 + chance
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+ 3(Mobilized)+3(Larger economy)+5(naval dominance) = 15
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance:
 * Edits:
 * UTC
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8 +2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 90,000/30,000= 3
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Arcadia
Total: 39 + chance
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -2
 * Chance:
 * Edits:
 * UTC =
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars: -10 (since there's no provision in the algo for multiple fronts, I used this)

Result
((63/(39+63))*2)-1 = 0.23529411764 (0.23529411764 )*(1-1/(2x2)) = 0.17647058823

Algonquia
Total: 68 + chance
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+3+3 (Mobilized) +5 (Naval dominance)=15
 * Motive: 7 + 5 =6
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits:
 * UTC
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 60,000/30,000=2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Arcadia
Total: 39 + chance
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -2
 * Chance:
 * Edits:
 * UTC =
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars: -10 (since there's no provision in the algo for multiple fronts, I used this)

Result
((68/(39+68))*2)-1 = 0.27102803738 (0.27102803738)*(1-1/(2x2)) = 0.20327102803 Combined, the two fronts exceed 33%, meaning Arcadia is toppled.

One thing I would question is if Reme has a greater economy than that of Arcadia. It's possible, but I find it unlikely. If other mods could come here and check that would be appreciated.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 18:24, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

To defend that, I'd point out that Arcadia controls only the Canadian Maritimes, Quebec, and parts of New England, while Reme controls almost the entire east and southeast of the U.S. A comparison of the economies of these two regions OTL illustrates why its reasonable to assume Reme has a larger economy. Shikata ga nai! 23:39, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

To defend that, Acradia controls major ship yards, industrial centers, and maritime ports. Looking at the current map, Acradia controls all of New England, All of New york, most (If not all) of Pennslyvania, New Jeresey, Most of Quebec and the other population centers of Canada at this point in OTL. So I personally belive it is resonable to say that Acradia would, if anything, have the larger economy. It controls most of the Inudustry of the Eastern US, a signifigant pool of Resources, and most of the population centers.

Let's not forget, industry, shipyards, etc. didn't develop like OTL. There's no particular reason to assume OTL New York should have become an industrial centre while OTL, say, Virginia remained more agricultural. Indeed, it may well have been the opposite, given that the south and southeast was settled first and has been under the control an independent power with an interest in local development, rather than a colonizer trying to exploit resources, for longer. Looking solely at population and land area, which we can reasonably assume to have remained the same from OTL, Reme's economy would be larger. Assuming Arcadia has a larger economy solely on the basis of OTL economics is an exercise in futility. But IDK, it probably won't make a huge difference to the result anyway. Shikata ga nai! 14:14, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

I mean you state that you have compared the OTL economies. But I digress. Reme is defienatly less industrial than Arcadia. Take that as you will. #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:21, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Just saying, it is fair to say that Crim and Andy did extensively create Boston and New York as major population centers. So while everything might not be the same as OTL, there are definitely major population centers and areas of industry in Arcadia, and I imagine there are others I don't know about.

That being said it might not entirely matter at this time.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:08, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Hashemite Caliphate

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]  = +2
 * Strength: +4 [Hashemite Caliphate] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 23.75
 * Motive: +6 [Taking Back Territory Recently Held]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] = -2
 * Chance: +0
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 76

Zand Dynasty

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Persia]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 41

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(76/(76+41))*2-1= .29914

.29914*(1-1/(2*t))= .2243 in two years.

With this war's results compounded with the results of the previous war, I do believe Zand Persia has fallen to the Caliphate. Was not how I wanted the Middle East to turn out, but oh well.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:33, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Mexacan Empire

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] + +6 [Surprise Attack]  = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Mexaca] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 18
 * Motive: +5 [Similar not part of nation]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]+5 (High Morale) = -2
 * Chance: +8
 * Edits:
 * UTC (04:05):  = 20
 * (1538/20)*pi:
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2?
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 89

California

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [California]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: +3 [Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -2 (Assuming it is democratic, inform otherwise)
 * Chance: 8
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 57

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(89/(89+57))*2-1= 0.219178082

thatshizzleabove*(1-1/(2*2))= 0.164383561 in two years.

Results are without chance. Other mods, do come in and check if you want to.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 03:00, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

I have a few questions. My first question is whether the Mexacan attack would be a 'surprise attack'. Given that Mexaca has already been at war in the last 15 turns and has a history of bad relations with California, I believe California would've expected an incoming Mexacan attack. We must surely not forget how California and Mexaca have been at war before as well. So, I believe +6 Surprise Attack should be removed.

My second question is why California did not receive +6 for 'homeland is desert'. If we were to assume that the war was fought in Southern California, than it was most surely fought in the Sonoran and Mojave Desert. That means that California should receive a +6 for Desert.

My third question is that unlike otl, North America remained fractured for much longer. This would most likely also mean that unlike otl, Mexaca was not necessarily urbanized in the North. In any case, this brings in the factor of whether Mexaca possesses the given resources and railroad system to provide its troops with supplies, who are fighting in enemy territory in a 280,000 km2 desert. That leads one to conclude that since Mexaca had achieved naval dominance, it would be much more easier for them to launch an attack upon Californian Baja through the sea. That leads one to then conclude that if an amphibious attack is launched, California would receive an additional +6 for amphibious landing.

My fourth question is whether we can completely rule out any possibility of a Guerilla war fought by the Californian army, in the Sonora Desert. Although this is debatable, it is a possibility given that the algorithm shows Mexaca to be substantially advanced in technology which would most likely lead to the Californian military adopting Guerilla tactics. Ofcourse, this is debatable but if so, it would give California +1 and -5 to Mexaca.

My fifth question is why Mexaca received 'fully mobilized'. This is an overused bonus thing that has almost always been used by people to get a +3, completely neglecting the economical problems that one would face by fully mobilizing his nation, and let's not forget how Mexacan people would oppose any 'full mobilization' after the defeat that Mexaca faced against Hamburg. I personally believe it should be removed from Mexaca.

Rimp, people don't fight guerrilla wars in deserts, because they rely on local sources of supply and support, which don't exist in the Mojave because no one lives there. So no, guerrilla tactics would result in starvation. Shikata ga nai! 13:10, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

To address the various points...

California annexed Baja and Mexaca didn't really care at all. In addition, California's actions were motivated not by anger towards Mexaca but towards Borealia, which annexed more than half of their nation while giving them independence. So while it may seem that way, Mexaca didn't care at all about the annexation until now, several years after they had fought their last war.

Mexaca has desert as well, so I believe the respective bonuses cancel out, since both sides would know how to fight in desert.

It wasn't an amphibious attack. Nations can launch campaigns far away over desert if they plan and execute them carefully, see America in the Mexican-American War where they managed to invade California from Missouri. Industrial centers don't need to be near the line of fighting in order to count, they need to exist and be close enough to send said supplies. Again, America's industrial centers did not appear close to California or Mexico when they fought.

Same as Kras said.

Not sure why you would say the Mexacans would oppose a full mobilization. They fought against four nations and only lost once. That's a three to one ratio, and those were European powers. You think they would be opposed to taking on a backwater Borealian nation that did in fact take some of their land not so long ago?

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 16:27, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

Borealia

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2+6  = +8
 * Strength: +4+5+3+5 = 17
 * Motive: +5+7 = 12
 * Morale: 3+5 = 8
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 281
 * UTC (16:20):  = 1*6*2 = 12
 * (281/12)*pi: 73.5656...
 * Population: +8+20= +28
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 102*1.5=153

California

 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: +4
 * Motive: +9
 * Morale: +3-5 = -2
 * Chance: 8
 * Population: +8
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 57

Results
(153/(153+57))*2 - 1 = 0.4571...

toppled in two years

Teh Arabs and Friends
Result: 64.66
 * Location: (+8 +4)/2 = 6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 = 2
 * Strength: +4 [Roman Empire]  +4 [Arabia]  +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 28
 * Motive: +3 +3 = 6
 * Morale: +3 - 20 = -17
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/75,000 = +2.66
 * Participation: +10

Teh Turks of Azerbaijan
Result: 49
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] = +5
 * Strength: +4    = 4
 * Motive: +9 = 9
 * Morale: -7
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +7 [Population] = +7
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 75,000/200,000 = 0
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(64.66/(64.66+49))*2-1= .13777

.13777*(1-1/(2*2))= 10.333%

Discussion
Will start this when I get back home.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:18, May 14, 2015 (UTC)

Done.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 16:58, May 18, 2015 (UTC)

Italian Rebles
Result: 49.7
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] = +2
 * Strength: +5 [Italian Rebles]   = 5
 * Motive: +7 [Aiding Social/Moral/Ideological/Religious Kinsmen who are being "oppressed"] = 7
 * Morale: .5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +8 [Population] = +8
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 175,000/300,000 = 1.7
 * Participation: +10

Rome and Roman Loyalists
Result: 55.5
 * Location: (+15 +4 +4 +4)/4 = 6.75
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 = 5
 * Strength: +4 [Roman Empire]  +5 [Aragon] +4 [Arabia] +4 [Syria] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 28
 * Motive: +5 +3 +3 +3 = 4.25
 * Morale: +3 - 20 = -17
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/175,000 = +0.5
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(55.5/(55.5+49.7))*2-1= .05513

.05513*(1-1/(2*2))= 4.13%

Discussion
Will start this when I get back home and when Edge tells me how exactly this algo should work.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:19, May 14, 2015 (UTC)

Neither Faction has greater than 50% of the population, but collectivly they had 50-60% ~Edge

Dammit Edge.

Still heavily in construction.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 20:45, May 15, 2015 (UTC)

Algonquia
Total: 77
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 +3 +3 +3 +5 = 18
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3 + 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7 + 10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Arcadia 2.0
Total: 45
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
26% max

13% in a year

19% in 2

Discussion
Kill it before it lays eggs...

Why is Morale -2? ~Edge

Low morale penalty combined with defender's morale. Shikata ga nai! 22:42, May 15, 2015 (UTC)

Bengali Coalition
Result: 94.6
 * Location: +8+4+4/3 = 5.3
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Bahamani] +3 [Udaipur] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 24
 * Motive: +7+7+3/3 = 5.6
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +9
 * Edits: 1483
 * UTC (03:05): 0*3*0*5 = 15
 * (1483/15)*pi: 310.59879
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [More Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/175,000 = 1.7
 * Participation: +10

Punjab Confederacy
Result: 50.5
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +3 [Punjab]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]
 * Chance: +8
 * Edits: 1483
 * UTC (03:05): 0*3*0*5 = 15
 * (1483/15)*pi: 310.59879
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 175,000/300,000 = +0.5
 * Participation: +10

Results
(94.6/(94.6+50.5))*2 -1 = 0.303928

22.7% in a two years.

Algonquia
Total: 73
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 +3 +3 +3 +5 = 18
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3 + 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7 + 10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent Wars: -4

Arcadia 2.0
Total: 41
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent Wars: -4

Result
Same as before, meaning Arcadia 2.0 is toppled in 2 years.

Discussion
...

Bengali Coalition
Result: 83.6
 * Location: +8+4+4/3 = 5.3
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Bahamani] +3 [Udaipur] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 24
 * Motive: +7+7+3/3 = 5.6
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +6
 * Edits: 1494
 * UTC (00:21): 0*0*2*1 = 2
 * (1494/2)*pi: 2346.76971223
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [More Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/175,000 = 1.7
 * Participation: +10

Punjab Confederacy
Result: 51.5
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +3 [Punjab]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]
 * Chance: +9
 * Edits: 1494
 * UTC (00:21): 0*0*2*1 = 2
 * (1494/2)*pi: 2346.76971223
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 175,000/300,000 = +0.5
 * Participation: +10

Results
(83.6/(83.6+51.5))*2 -1 = 0.23670177

(23.670177)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 11.8350885

11.8% in a single year, added up with 22.7% from the previous war makes 34.5%.

Algonquia
Total: 96
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 = 23
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3 + 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7 + 20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 70,000/20,000=3
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Recent Wars: -4

Rebels
Total: 39
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Rekt

Discussion
...

AyutthataEdit
<p style="font-size:16px;line-height:26px;">Total: 43.64
 * Location:  +4 (close to location of war, and Burma borders us)
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: +.5 (S) +3 (larger economy)= 3.5
 * Motive: +3+7+5 =15 (Economic, political hegemony,similar culture but different nation)
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: (91/126=.722) +2
 * Nation Age: -5 (Ancient Nation)
 * Population: 3,000,000=7 (I have no idea how to find out the population at that era. You can correct me if I am wrong)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 75,000/ 35,000= 2.14
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Recent Wars: 0

BurmaEdit
<p style="font-size:16px;line-height:26px;">Total: 38.75
 * Location: +8 (Bordering us)
 * Tactical Advantage:  +8 (Jungle/tropical)
 * Strength:  -0.25 (V)
 * Motive: +9 (Fatal attack)
 * Morale : -5 (Strength less than 50%)
 * Chance: +2
 * Nation Age: -5 (Ancient Nation)
 * Population: 3,000,000=7 (Again, estimates from the articles I've managed to find in the internet)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops:  200,000/100,000=1 (How do I even know this if the country has no player?)
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

ResultEdit
(43.64/43.64+38.75))*2-1= 78.5

78.5*(1-1/2*2))=19.37...%?

DiscussionEdit
I'm pretty sure this is probably the most mistake-ridden algo you guys have ever seen. This is why I won't treat this as official until someone helps me with this xD Erizium (talk) 14:23, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Japan
Hi, I have rentered from my long absence and I am interested in playing Japan. The current player has not posted since April 19, 2015. May I please play as Japan? KawaiiKame (talk) 00:49, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:22, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Resignation
I, Erizium, do hereby resign from the Principia Modernia III Map Game due to my extensive lack of knowledge about the era

And the fact that I feel like a idiot for forgetting there were pages for nations with their statistics in it xD

But seriously though, I resign

Erizium (talk) 07:01, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Hesperian Coalition
Total:75.5
 * Location:+8+8/2=8*1=8
 * Tactical:+2+6=8
 * Strenght:4+3.75+3.75+3
 * Motive:5+5=10/2=5
 * Morale:3+3/2=3+5
 * Chance:
 * 3*5*8=120
 * 2023/120*pi=52.962
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troop Numbers:150,000/50,000 (Number Given by MP)=+3
 * Participation:+10

England
Total:38.75
 * Location:+15-8(*.625)=+10
 * Tactical:+5
 * Strenght:+3.75+5
 * Motive:9+5/2=7
 * Morale:-10
 * Chance:2
 * Population:+8-2
 * Nation Age:+0
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troops:0
 * Participation:+10

Result
24% in 2 years.

Algonquia and Borealia
Total: 68.5 + 4 = 72.5 * 1.5 = 108.75
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4 + 4 +3 +5
 * Motive: 7+5+3/2=7.5
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 1,582
 * UTC: 2:22 = 2*2*2 = 8
 * 1582*Pi/8 = 621.2499...
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 100,000/30,000= 3
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: -3

United Nordic Republics
Total: 81.8*1.5 (Popular revolt)=121.5+6=127.5
 * Location: 10.6
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+10 (Arctic)
 * Strength: 5 (Helluland) +5 (Iceland) + 3.75 (Norway) + 3.75 (Denmark) +3.75 (Sweden) + 2.5 (Finland) +3 (Econ) +3 (Mil) +5 (Naval)
 * Motive: 10+3=13/2=6.5
 * Morale: 3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 6,826
 * UTC: 2:22 = 2*2*2 = 8
 * 6,826*Pi/8 = 2680.564...
 * Nation Age: -2.5
 * Population: 7 + 2
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Troops strength: ~115,000 (25,000 from Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden. Maybe 15,000 from Helluland? Even that's a bit much...)
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Defeats: 0

Discussion
I'm sure there will be some...

Summary of changes: Added my stuff. As far as I can tell, Kras' algo looks good to go, though I don't think there's a modifier for attacking colonies. Only other concern from me is that I doubt this would be a surprise attack. Tensions were kinda high and I think Helluland knew what was coming to them. Crim de la Crème 15:25, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't know where those bonuses are coming from
 * Borealia has more motives to invade
 * The UNR was literally just created
 * We have about the same population
 * Borealia hasn't had a war in thirty years
 * Reme is helping out as well
 * 1.5 multiplyer for attacking colonies

This is ridiculous. Some vassal spamming is one thing, but Crim is winning this war only because his nation is hugely subdivided. By splitting it up, he's gained about 15 points. i'm not sure if mods will step in or not, but I can guarantee one thing - my nation, and probably a lot of other ones, are going to be arbitrarily subdivided after this war. The UNR should fight as one entity - it's ludicrous that this division should give him 15 extra points. Shikata ga nai! 15:44, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Crim has some issues: Nathan1123 (talk) 16:12, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * The 1.5 multiplyer for popular revolts most certianly does not apply here (that's why MP was surprised you asked, it's supposed to be bad for you)
 * -10 nation age (the UNR was created less than 5 turns ago)
 * -3 for vassal spamming (although I agree that the UNR should be treated as one unit)
 * On that note, there is no way all of those nations are sending more than economic support
 * how do you have naval dominence if Helluland is land-locked?

I won't change it myself until a mod takes a look at it, but I'm pretty sure Crim made some mistakes. Nathan1123 (talk) 16:35, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Not the most skilled at algos, but there are some things amiss.

First, I would like to consult with Sky and Edge regarding the multiple nations Crim has, as it does seem suspicious and clearly in his favor.

Second, I'm not going to accept that Reme is in the war unless I hear it from Sat himself. Since he's supposed to be back today, that shouldn't be difficult.

If Crim is in fact using all those nations, all of his averages and scores need to have imput from all six.

I don't recall there being a 1.5 modifier for attacking colonies and I can't appear to find it in the new algo rules. If someone could point it out for me, that would be great.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 16:49, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Let me go down the list and adress these issues.
 * 1) From what I can tell, there is no 1.5 multiplier for attacking colonies in the new algo. Sky would know better, but looking at the previous colonial wars with the New Algo(Andea vs Portugal and Andea vs England), a 1.5 multiplier doesn't seem to be in effect.
 * 2) Crim dividing his nation is... odd. But, from what I can tell, it was that way before the war began. So it is not like he divided his nation up just for this war. Granted his posts seem to imply (To me) that his government was some form of USSR. I will hear both sides for this.
 * 3) Popular Revolt could logically be given to Crim. As I did not create the event, I have no idea if it was intended to be this way.
 * 4) Naval Domenice Refers to Scandinavia who would send it's navy to defend it's colony/puppet/slave. Nation age should be -10, averaged across the UNR.
 * 5) Vassal Spam should be a -3 penelty IIRC.
 * 6) Everything else is beyond my realm of knowledge. I will look into things. For now however, this algo is locked to only non-participant mods. If you have any statements or changes you wish to make, do so here.

Reme is definitely in the war - Sat posted accordingly on the PMIII page in the recent turn. Shikata ga nai! 20:44, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

I said these things on chat a few times, but I'll say them again.

The UNR is not a nation. It's a politico-economic union of the nordic nations following the Scandinavian revolution. Think the EU, but entirely Nordic. I created it with the goal of posting for each member state. Scandinavia is a pain to keep unified; the people are too different and the terrain doesn't allow for much communication. This allows for more in-depth turns on my part and really allows for me to post the happenings of my civilization, which is admittedly a large one. I didn't make it with the intention of going to war in my mind. If I wanted to do that, I'd have done this earlier. Basically, I'd be neutral. Like Switzerland. Kras kinda wrecked that, but whatever.

This isn't vassal spam. Not by a long shot. Can it be abused? You bet. So can the vassal system and we have limits/restrictions on vassals. IMO, this is a great way to manage a large empire. Kras, you are encouraged to do this because your nation (and mine) should have been Balkanized long ago.

Of course, balkanization and controlling the whole thing raises concerns, ergo the need for limits and restrictions to be placed on the system. The mods are discussing this as we speak. I'd like to raise how I've limited this already so I'm not overpowered. Anyhoo, I really do hope I can keep playing as a supranational union. It's interesting, fun, and plausible. I think the ability to do this should be restricted to large, multi-ethnic nations (like Algonquia). MP proposed this and I like this idea: declarations of war should be RNGed or mod controlled as the situation permits.
 * 1) I only have one nation at war: Iceland. The others are sending support, if that. Finland is sending money. Basically, the only one at war is Iceland (and Helluland, which is a colony)
 * 2) I have five nations in this union, all of whom have unique identities. They aren't arbitrarily split as Kras said.
 * 3) I recognized pretty soon after writing the algo that I had it in my capability to absolutely wreck Kras and his crew with this, so I made sure to limit even support.

On a much different note, Reme is not at war. They're sending troops/artillery. Crim de la Crème 22:32, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Also, I should say that if I ran this as one nation, my score (without chance and modifier) is 74. My score with ZOMG ALL AT WAR was a 60. That last score might be wrong because I'm bad at math and did that on the fly, but that should say something. Is this really OP?Crim de la Crème 22:44, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

I thought MP was already clear about this. You can't play as multiple nations. You certianly can't play as a multi-national organization. Nathan1123 (talk) 22:47, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, there's a reason large supranational unions weren't formed pre-1900, and still are largely dysfunctional today - because they just don't work very well. Can anyone imagine the EU forming at the time of the Franco-Prussian War? No, for obvious reasons; the nationalistic rivalries and powerful economic spheres of individual nations at this point in time make it both impractical and disadvantageous. These issues would be exacerbated in a nation that had just bloodily revolted against an oppressive government.

But setting that aside, by setting up his nation in this way, Crim has gained 21 points in the algo versus fighting as one unified country. It's entirely possible that he's playing it for fun and plausibility, as he said, but the fact remains that an administrative quirk in his nation essentially makes it a military superpower. I've got no issue with supranational unions, but they shouldn't be able to use all of their subdivisions as separate entities in a conflict, otherwise we end up with a new Caliphate. I also find it odd that one person can play as a multinational/superanational organization. Isn't the premise of map games that each person plays as one nation, not six? Shikata ga nai! 23:03, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Crim, your proposed experiment has already been done. It's called PMII. Do you really want to be the cause of the end of PMIII simply because of your unexplained affinity to Nunavut cariboo? Nathan1123 (talk) 01:43, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

There's a big difference between your scenario and the UNR. As far as that 21 points thing, where am I getting these 21 points. I encourage you to look into my nation's scores with the UNR as one entity and the UNR fighting as all five (and Helluland). You'll be surprised. These supranational entities prevent Caliphates. Algonquia itself is pretty Caliphatey and could benefit from doing this. Hell, I'd help set it up for you. People in PM have played more than one nation before. Vassals, PUs, puppet nations, etc. Let's also not forget that people have played their colonies after revolts.

I think the buzz about these supranational organizations is largely reactionary hype. Give it time. Crim de la Crème 01:56, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

I've looked into it. If it was one entity, you'd get a score of 16 for strength. By splitting it and using each part separately, you get a score of 34.75. The split has allowed you to more than double your score in this section. Those numbers speak for themselves.

Crim, the issue with the Caliphate (as I understand it) was that each part could be used separately in an algo, giving it gigantic scores.If anything, this issue is worse with your nation, because not only are all of your sub-nations somehow independent, but scores are no longer divided by the number of nations involved, meaning that you're going to get even larger scores than under the previous system. As I understood it, PMIII was moving in the direction of modern, united nations with provinces or other subdivision that don't get treated separately in an algo, thus preventing vassal spam. IMHO, supranational unions are fine, but a) being supranational one person shouldn't play the entire thing, the same way no one could play the HRE or the EU and b)if one person is playing as them, then they should be treated as one entity in an algo. Simple solution.

On another note, if the algo works out as Crim has set it up, I've got a couple issues. First, Helluland isn't an independent entity and has never acted as one in algos or within the game. It shouldn't become one now. Second, if the rest of the Union other than Iceland is just sending aid, Crim loses the +2 for larger population, and Borealia/Algonquia gain a +20 bonus for 10 times larger population, since Iceland's pop. is about 1 million and aiders' populations aren't counted. Finally, Crim's motive shouldn't be +10, since Helluland isn't a nation that can be wiped out, but a territory of Iceland, and a sparsely populated one at that. Shikata ga nai! 11:11, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Hamburg joined in the war, so they should be factored in as well. Also, Iceland has a lot less than a million people. Today, OTL Icland has only 300K people, while Nunavut has only 30K. Nathan1123 (talk) 13:21, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Exactly. My strength is boosted by 36 if I brought everyone in. Keep in mind the negative impacts of bringing everyone into the war (recent wars, location, motive scores absolutely plummet). The reason Helluland is considered an independent entity is because it's being attacked. That's generally how colonial algos work. A bunch of problems with the algo have been raised and I don't think anyone's edited the algo to reflect them, so I'm doing that now. Regarding Nathan's concern, Hamburg is lending support, not joining the war. Iceland's population is 1 Mil in PM and has been for a bit. OTL pops here are not pops in ATL. Crim de la Crème 13:33, May 27, 2015 (UTC)