User talk:Red VS Blue

Superpowers Timeline
If anyone has comments or additions they would like to make in regards to my Superpowers ATL, they can be directed here. Red_VS_Blue 11:34, 8 November 2009

Proposition
First I'd like to thank you for your kind words. I was so scared it was going to undo one of your edits to the TL, and there goes our friendly messaging :)
 * But yes, yes, yes, I'd love to help you. I was going to ask you if I could make a page for Achaea, but it's better you asked me first! I just have to finish up my Spanish studies and dinner is on its way, but I'm here and ready.

John, aka Mr.Xeight 00:00, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Flag
Oh, Red, you've truly outdone yourself a million times over! Your flag is absolutely great, if I were an alternate-Earth Roman citizen I'd be proud to say that is my flag! Mr.Xeight 16:43, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Why thank you :) I'm glad it was worth the hours of work I put into it. Though I'm very grateful for your idea of integrating the Palaiologos into the design, the plain eagle I had before that was bothering me haha. Anyway, how's your ideas for the Achaea page going :)

Oh, I was also wondering if I could have your opinion on the verisimilitude of my new geopolitical goals page, I'm still wondering if it's a worthwhile addition to the timeline.

Thank you once again! :) Red VS Blue 16:54, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, Achaea. I was thinking of somehow stopping any sort of Grecian Revolt, that way Greece wouldn't lose favor in the eyes of Rome and would continue to grow. Then Greek history would parallel Byzantine history; until Mankizert. Now the Greeks would have lierally all of Europe to defend its borders, the Seljuk Empire would be reduced to a shadow of itself, and the Greek provinces would continue to grow and thrive. Eventually Greek businessmen would hightail it to the New World in order to make some big bucks (well aureui), bringing Greek peasants as debt slaves and regular slaves as well, real slaves. The Greek merchants' business in their homeland might be replaced by other business from across the Empire, so there might be more of a cultural blend, but I doubt no more than Greece's population in our world, 99% Greek, 1% something else :D


 * And I read your Geopolitics page, and it gave me a hige insight, especially on how sinister Japan was, and still is. Just a question; how did Japan get to annex Cuba, and why did Roman (the clear ruler of the Caribbean) allow it?

Mr.Xeight 04:40, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Mm yes, I did write a Grecian Revolt in the Timeline, at the time I figured that Greece would be a very independent province and was rather likely to attempt a large rebellion. I can retcon it out, I was planning on adding a more precise timeline soon, so it's good you mentioned that now, or else I'd have to delete a bunch of paragraphs haha. I completely agree that the Greek province should dominate Mediterranean business, and Asian business due to proximity to the Suez and the Black Sea, and of course their connection to the sea would deeefinitely lead to colonizing the New World by Greeks. As for the ethnic percentages of Greece, I figured it would constitute a Roman-Greek and pure Greek blend. The Romans would definitely attempt to "colonize" one of their most prosperous regions, i.e. Greece. I just imagine that the Romans would be pretty extensive in their taking over of lands, much worse than OTL European colonists. That's just some food for thought anyway.


 * Hahaha yes well Japan needs that outlook just to have been able to survive being neighbors to the mighty Mongols. The Japanese got Cuba at the end of the Cubaguan Civil War in the 60's. Rome would allow them to have it as they wouldn't want to carry up the immense cost of integrating it into the Empire, especially after the island's capital was devastated by a nuke. The Japanese obviously would want it to create more living space for their crowded population and to move into the American (well Columbian :P) markets on the Atlantic side.

I do enjoy proving the plausibility of my timeline, so if you find anything else which seems a bit off, or wrong, please ask about it :) It's a big help to the timeline. Red VS Blue 02:11, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

I am so sorry I did not respond to your question earlier, a terriblebout of melancholy and sloth has set into me, I can't do much of anything for more than a minute lately. :(
 * I like what you have on Greece, though for me to ask for you to remove a Greek Revolt would be against the Alternate-Historian's Code of Honor, I do not mean to move in and establish a Helleni-wank Timeline. Besides my sibconscious nationalism peaking through my alt-history writer exterior, we work well IMO. Would you care to work on a timeline with me? I've been trying to get some partners for my "Genghis Khan Who?" Timeline. It's about East-Asian powers colonizing the world themselves, and eventually (just like in RL) the Rise of Europe. However, us stuffy Europeans have more competition, and when our colonization of the world starts, we find some very pertrbed Asians who don't particularly want competition. I'd like to stress we'd be equals in the timeline, nothing gets added without the other, no one has the final-say, we simply negotiate and finetune the oth person's work. What do you say? :D

Mr.Xeight 02:53, January 3, 2010 (UTC) Mr.Xeight 02:53, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

I just posted some ideas about Genghis Khan Who?, I'm about to move them to the AH's page. Feel free to criticize when you see it :) Mr.Xeight 23:40, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for cleaning that up. For some reason I always get the message that anything before the last edit is too old to revert. But thanks again! I thought about the AH, and I believe my old work to be too ASBish. I'd like to have a clean slate on the AH and us three work together on it, you're not getting off the hook on this one :) Just kidding, John Mr.Xeight 22:32, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, no problem. You're lucky I just happened to get on right then and there :P

Ok, sounds like a plan then. I'm a little bit busy in general, but I'll try to get on when I can, check out what's new, and offer my own input. I can't imagine it'll be too taxing. Red VS Blue 22:45, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Help?
Hey, would you like to help me create at least one article for my time-line? I currently need the articles of the four battles of the First Silk War (XI: Serica & Romanum) done... would you please help? Main details of the battles can be found on the First Silk War page as well. If you accept, please put the conflict infobox templates in the articles as well. At least one article would be helpful. Tinier details of the battles are up to you. Are you knowledgeable about Russian history and culture, by the way?

Well alright, as long as it has a good structure. I can pay you back by making an article for you on the next vacation.

And yes, the overall war article is complete. You can comment on it and suggest changes if you like, as we are partners.

Superpowers
I just had a little too much free time when I was wandering around Althistory Wiki, and I suddenly stumbled upon your Time-line. I read parts of it, I noticed there was something not quite right. Gunpowder was not discovered from rocks, it was (and still is) made with sulfur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate, and sometimes with honey. Besides that, it's nice.Kagemoto vi Brooklyn 22:04, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * haha As might be noticed, to an ancient person, those look like rocks. Ya, at the time I wasn't going to put that, but I figured it would be weird if I said that an ancient mesoamerican was experimenting with solid materials, rocks just flowed nicely (figuratively flowing of course :P) I'm glad to see you like my timeline, and if you notice anything else that seems not quite right, feel free to ask :) I'm working on improving it and constructive criticism goes a long way to that end. Red VS Blue 22:41, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Your war articles are amazing! Well, perhaps I can help you with some articles over the weekend... any suggestions? 1/14 is my birthday, so I expect the teachers to be nice to me and give me less homework (the chances are slim to none though...). You're very talented, we can reach the stars together (or something like that, I'm not very good with idioms).Kagemoto vi Brooklyn 03:43, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Does slavery in this timeline exist to this day? If so, are Africans (African-Americans) enslaved? --Catherine 00:46, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see your comment earlier Kagemoto. Though if you ever have any ideas that would work well with my timeline, feel free to put them forward. Either on an article talk page specifically, or right here on my own discussion page.

Catherine, you can read more about the status of slavery in my timeline here Geopolitics. It does still exist, but is on a decline due to economic factors. Also, they would be Africans (Africanus in Latin), African-American is the "politically correct" term used by the media. It certainly doesn't apply to Africans living in Europe in a timeline with no America.

How did you go about finding the kmsq. areas for your nations?--TEAKAY 11:16, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia and an hour with a calculator =P

Seriously though, I just made sure my maps were along a rough outline of OTL borders then I added every nation's km sq area within those borders. Red VS Blue 11:27, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, what I try to do is about as accurate/effective/efficient except replace wikipedia with autocad and hours with calculator with hours of drawing polylines XP--TEAKAY 11:15, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Woah, you use software to do it? Is autocad easier to use than photoshop? I got that like you'd recommended but I've never really gotten the hang of it lol Red VS Blue 11:24, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Oh uh I use the autocad just to try to find the areas, I use photoshop to make the maps and try to import the picture to autocad (they sometimes just don't work) and then I use a poly line on a small island and try to find a scaling ratio and then put polyine on all the borders but it's "oh my god this is taking forever and there's no magnetic lasso in autocad" DX and because of the projections of the maps I have no real idea how accurate the numbers are 6_6;;--TEAKAY 13:27, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

haha That's sounds pretty intense, I'd wager that the numbers are pretty spot on if you went through all of that. Even my numbers are probably only accurate to the 1,000's of kilometers, not even that I'd bet. You've got nothing to worry about =)

So how's your timeline been going? You seem to just be sorta on and off here lately lol =P Red VS Blue 01:27, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh I'm again concentrating on a rework of the main maps but I hate working on small sizes so it's like 5x3 metres 680mb (after I had cut out sub-Sahara Africa) with a bazillion layers and man I don't have the RAM I'm supposed to so it takes five minutes to open the file if it doesn't fail and say there isn't enough virtual memory and if I shut down everything else, which isn't practical because I need other webpages and documents to reference, and it takes another five minutes to save it even if it's only to the desktop (because I got all these back ups everywhere :S) and it's like it takes forty seconds for it just to register a line draw. AND the pages of what has to be done just keep piling up while months go by trying to get the patience to put into the map, and it's not even awesome stuff going in right now it's just tedium-detail but I am no way going to shrink it any more.


 * Yes I know I hardly do anything here these days other than look at my watchlist. The general layout of the timeline up to the late 1800's is pretty certain on the word document but I'm really thinking that I can't put it all here because once the aliens start showing up everyone's going to be like "UPBUPBUPBUP, what is this?" None of them look like bats.


 * And finally I have to say I'm avoiding reading much of your timeline because I really don't want to see similarities between our works(even though there are tremendous differences I know) because it will be like those two guys that both invented the parachute independently and I'll be like "Oh man did I really think that up or did I just steal it?" DX ... And I have to say your timeline also has intensity, in it's data detail and comprehension. Not like whoah, like whooooah. I'll be very honest and very blunt, your timeline makes me feel like a fool sometimes. Don't salve my ego please just accept it, if the Chaos timeline was about Rome it would belittle me just as much.--TEAKAY 02:12, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know, I understand completely where you're coming from (minus the aliens =P)


 * If you have stuff already written I say go for it. Everyone enjoys a well written story and you certainly deliver on that part (don't deny it sir, you are at the very least very prolific in your writing). Yours was the first timeline I read when I got to this site over a year ago and I will admit that it pushed me to start my own timeline. I haven't read it all (for exxxxactly the same reason as you've avoided mine) but what I've seen has impressed me.

You are the Edison to my Tesla (only because I love Tesla =P), we write on a similar subject (Romano-centric ATLs) and are both equals in that regard. So I'll stop the analogy there and encourage you to go through with what you have but haven't released. I only wish I could have gotten used to writing things out on word documents beforehand, all my articles are spur of the moment, and I often worry that what I'm writing is just contradicting something else or repeating something incessantly. Red VS Blue 03:00, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

I've suddenly been informed that an easier way to measure areas than exporting to autocad is the use of the magic wand and such and then reading the histogram to find the number of pixels selected.--TEAKAY 11:52, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, what? You know I don't understand all that photoshop-speak =P Red VS Blue 12:50, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops sorry I thought you were using photoshop, in photoshop there's the tools: magic wand, lasso, and marquee that select areas, and under the window menu there is the historgram that can be opened that shows some sort of graph related to colours in a selected area. There's a triangle with an exclamation mark in it and clicking this I guess takes all the colours of the selected area of the whole and under the graph it shows the number of selected pixels and other things. Finding a scale ratio like I did in the AUTOCAD method changes the pixels to kmsq.--TEAKAY 20:03, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

I did for a short while but its always been too complex for me, I just stick with good 'ole paint for now. How precise is that? I imagine if you get the scale ratio right that should be pretty spot-on eh? Red VS Blue 20:25, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is as long as the map projections aren't too warped :P--TEAKAY 11:07, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Superpowers is a featured TL
Congratulations, Superpowers is now a featured TL of the wiki. The portal page of the TL can now showcase the featured timeline template and the TL will also have a chance to show up on the main page of the wiki for an entire month. Before that can happen I need a short summary of the TL from you, plus any links or pics you want to appear with the summary. Featured TLs are chosen at random to appear on the main page, so I am not able to tell you right now when it will happen. Mitro 22:19, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hi there Mitro. I have a picture that you can use for the main page, it's just a map for my timeline in the year 2000, so it's not on any other page yet. Not that it matters. Anyway, I'll be typing up the written part later this week, probably...There's no hurry for it though, am I correct?

Red VS Blue 23:45, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah take your time. The next two months are spoken for so you have some time. Mitro 23:59, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember when I said there was no hurry? Well the random selector has picked Superpowers to show up on the main page for the month of June. So please get me that written summary asap or else I am going to have to write one myself. Mitro 14:25, April 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh damn. Okay well here goes =>

Superpowers

It is the year 2000. A millennia old Roman Empire continues to tighten its grip over all the continents, nearly complacent in its virtual shield of space technologies. The Japanese merchants control the seas and influence the world's markets to best serve their Emperor's interests. Meanwhile the once mighty Platonist Socialism movement is still burned into everyone's memory following the destruction caused by the latest World War only a decade ago. Though all is not necessarily moving towards the better. The vast Mongol World Empire is catching up to the Alliance of Earth in technology and seems ready to even fight and win, should a pitched battle ever be fought. This stalemate is only kept in check by the atomic weaponry pointed right at the heart of the Mongol empire.

This is the world of Superpowers. A detailed history going back almost two thousand years and covering three points of divergences across each major continent. Centuries of technological advancements from automatic crossbows, and 18th Century Radio, to kinetic space artillery and laser rifles have been made and three World Wars over three hundred years fought for reasons as varied as colonialism to socialism. Everything has changed in a world that is almost alien from our own Earth as is the Moon. Though I hear the Moon's a nice place to visit this time of the month...


 * Timeline
 * Nations
 * Geopolitics

Will you please take time to read the Russian Expansion Timeline. Please give me a paragraph-long section of what I could do to expand and improve it. --Catherine 15:12, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Japan in Superpowers
I would like to make the page for Japan in the Superpowers timeline. I was wondering if you would allow me to do this?Vegas adict 16:52, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Thats fine, I would apreciate it if you made the japan page and i'l offer what sugestions i have after you'v set out your main ideas--Vegas adict 20:21, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have two questions for you before i start work on Japans navy. One, Did Yamamoto or someone like him exist in the TL or does the big gun doctrine prevail and Secondly did capital ship construction proceed in a similar way to OTL (Battleships being replaced by Dreadnoughts + Battlecruisers which are then replaced by Nuclear Submarines + Cariers)?Vegas adict 19:38, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yamamoto? Like Isoroku Yamamoto? He's too far from after Japan started to diverge from OTL. Japan is identical to OTL up until about 1279, maybe a little bit before. It remains similar though, except in certain ideologies, up till the 1700's when it really starts to diverge.

Here's a general timeline of weapons development, with the Japanese following a similar development to the Romans in naval technology. Capital ships remained the primary part of all navies and even remain so in 2000 AD. Aircraft carriers were invented in 1893, and used to a slight degree during the Second World War ATL. They really started to see use by the three main powers, especially the Japanese, by the 1940's and 50's. Nuclear Submarines never came into use by anyone other than the Inca (though the Japanese build some in the 70's). Also the general trend of naval warfare was just building bigger and bigger ships, if that helps to know. I'm very impressed with your questions by the way. You clearly know what you're talking about. Red VS Blue 21:20, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I will start the page tomorow but i just wanted to give you the basic idea before hand. With regards to tradition i envision it being similar to OTL Royal Navy (Very confident, disciplined and skilled).Strategicly i view them having three to four supercariers per ocean alongside several carriers that are similar to OTL Nimitz class , these would be backed up by groups of ships similar to OTL Battlecruisers which could intercept enamy vessels or those carrying illegal goods. as well as this they would have a battleship fleet in the home islands and several hundred flotilas of smaller ships would roam the seas. I suspect the nuclear subs would be used in this role as well. Hopefully this is ok with youVegas adict 22:01, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Very good! I assume that by Supercarrier you're referring to the Peninsula-Class that my Timeline mentions. In any case, it sounds like you have a very good idea of what you're doing, and I agree with everything you've said so far. So good luck to you, and I look forward to reading what you come up with. Red VS Blue 23:14, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'v finished most of the artical Nippon Kaigun (Superpowers) and i'd apreciate your thoughts on it, unfortunatly i have had to mention technology slightly as it is imposible not to when talking about how a navy adapts to it.Vegas adict 19:56, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Oh don't worry about it if you mentioned technology. As long as I can change those technology parts to better fit my idea of the timeline, then I don't mind what you add.

Oh my! That was quite an enjoyable read. It's clever, detailed and well thought-out, an amazing addition to my Timeline. I especially like how its tied in with the rest of my timeline, even the technological references are good. Job well done I'd say. Or is there more perhaps?

The little anecdotes are especially good, like the emperor's daughter one, as I think those are always a welcome addition to a timeline. I myself like to throw in that kind of thing frequently. Might I ask where you got the rank insignias? They remind of the British ones, just a bit though. Red VS Blue 21:12, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks :) The rank insignias are that of the OTL IJN.The artical itself is finished but if there's any other navy articals or ones to do with japan that need Creating/updating and you havn't got the time yourself tell me as I'm more than happy to help out (mainly because superpowers is such a good TL).Vegas adict 21:43, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Anyways, for the moment everything is fine, I'll be less busy in another week so it'll be easier for me to work alongside people then. For now, if you just have any opinions or thoughts on pages in my timeline in general just bring them up, I'm always looking to improve it and I appreciate the value in what you might have to say about it. There is always something to improve! Red VS Blue 22:26, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I am asking for a Map
Hello, I am Calthrina950. I have heard you make maps. Can you please create or at least find a map of Europe in the year, 1200, that can be edited by others, almost like the maps on Europe 1430 (Map Game). I would really appericate it, since I want to develop a new map game. Thanks if you can! --Catherine 00:06, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Mongol Empire
I love this Timeline! It's very wonderful, but one thing I'm kinda annoyed at is that you spent so much work into all the Rome-Related articles, but not even one Mongol World Empire Article! I would recomend having small articles for all the nations, then getting into the kind of detail you got into with the Romans. Just a thought though.....Eastward Expansion 13:15, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * And a very good thought at that! It's true, Rome is my specialty and so I have the easiest time writing those articles, others are more slow going. It is true though, I should have made articles for the other countries, I haven't taken the time to do much research though sadly.

But! If you'll advise me on it, I could start the Mongol article now and get it up to Rome standards by the end of the month. I assume you know far more on the Mongols than I do, right? There's only so much general history books can tell me. Red VS Blue 13:24, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Right! The Mongol Empire happens to be one of my specialties! What would you like advise on? Eastward Expansion 14:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

I find it interesting that the capital of your Mongol Empire is Temujin. I would have guessed that the capital would be the same as OTL Mongol empire (which would have been Karakorum). Also I noticed that you used the first Khan's (or Khagan's) real name for your capital. Interesting. Eastward Expansion 14:38, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does that make sense? Would the Mongols honor their "founding father" like that? I figured that to better integrate themselves with the Chinese, they'd have a capital further into China. At the same time, I didn't think they'd use a Chinese capital, since that might cause some problems. Founding a new city made sense to me. Does that make sense? Or would it never have happened? Red VS Blue 14:45, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * That does make a good idea. Eastward Expansion 15:12, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Say why don't you have a religion under religion for the Mongols? And what religion would you chose, I mean various Mongols have been Muslim, Buddhist, Confucian, or the original belief system of the mongols, Tengriism. Maybe it depends on the country or area linked to the religion Islam (middle east) Buddhist (most far east nations) Confucian (China and Korea) or Tengriism (Mongolia).Eastward Expansion 15:17, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Genghis Khan is believed to have been Tengriistic, but as time went on the Mongols usually adopted what ever religion of the people they just conquered. And they were very tolerant towards other religions.Eastward Expansion 15:20, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you mentioned that. I wasn't entirely sure what would be the dominant Mongol religion. Would they even have a State Religion? I figure I'd make it close to that of the Chinese since I have the Khagan ruling by their Mandate of Heaven. Buddhism seems to be the best choice, with Confucianism as an ideology (as its not exactly a religion per say). You're right though, the idea that specific regions would be dominated by specific religions would be the most likely situation. Red VS Blue 16:05, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay. So you're going with Buddhism? And Eastward Expansion 18:16, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well on the state religion matter, the historical Mongol Empire was probable one of the most religiously tolerant empires of its time. However many Khans (especially during Post-Imperial times) were Buddhists who encouraged that religion over others. Buddhist Monks were very high in society.Eastward Expansion 18:28, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh and Buddhist Monks have been considered the armed forces for various times in China and Mongolia. Before China invaded Tibet, Tibet used Buddhist Monks as the armed forces. Eastward Expansion 18:54, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey I noticed one major mistake! In your world map that shows all the countries, Mongolia controls the island of Taiwan. But in the map showing just the Mongol Empire, Taiwan is not controlled by the Mongols. Eastward Expansion 20:24, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you need a mongol flag? I'll make you one and see if you like it. If you don't I'll just delete it. Eastward Expansion 20:53, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Oh wow, many questions! =P Yes, I'm going with Buddhism as the state religion, though others will feature prominently as well of course. One direction I wanted to take with the Mongols is that they are brought over to be more Chinese. So even the ethnicities mix and Mongolian culture takes on many aspects of Chinese culture, basically unifying them. Does that seem like a possibility?

Oh, right. I made that map in a bit of a hurry and forgot that Taiwan was part of the Mongol Empire, i'll get to that don't worry. Hmmm, a flag? Yes, that would be very helpful actually. I didn't know what direction to take with that, so if you have something in mind I'd be more than happy to accept it. Red VS Blue 21:20, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well for the flag, I'm trying to use Mongolian Symbols of the cosmos (which will be blue, because even though the Mongols aren't Tengriistic any more, blue sky would still be one of the most important things to then) on a background that's the same color as the mongols on your map.Eastward Expansion 11:54, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * And maybe you the army of the Mongol World Empire to be Buddhists Monks like I said before? Or not....Eastward Expansion 11:54, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well? Do you like this flag? It's not the complexity level of your other flags, but....Eastward Expansion 12:25, June 14, 2010 (UTC)Mongol_World_Flag.jpg

Marvelous =D Flags can never be too simple or too complex, remember that! A Flag is what it is and this one is great! I understand completely what symbolism you're using in the flag and I think it fits nicely with a Mongol/Chinese Empire. I'll make some minor cosmetic changes, like straightening out lines and making it the same dimensions as my other flags, but it is definitely ideal for my timeline.

As for the Buddhist monk army, I have seen something on Buddhist Warrior Monks, and I admit they are quite impressive. I can see them being kind of like a Special Forces arm of the Mongol army, though the Golden Horde will always be its primary part. I'll be adding all of this to the timeline soon. Thank you so much! Anything else you have in mind for the moment? Red VS Blue 13:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I noticed you left ethnic groups blank, in you Mongol Empire template. And in the article, you said Mongolia has surprisingly little diversity. In OTL the area controlled by the Mongol Empire does have less diversity than you would expect from an area that large. So are you just going to put Mongolian and Chinese for your ethnic groups? Oh thanks for your kind words on the flag! Eastward Expansion 13:52, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

haha Don't mind the blanks. I don't do it all at once, I usually wait till things just come to me and I write it down. I still haven't considered the ethnic diversity of the Mongol Empire though I guarantee there will be over 10 mentioned groups. The majority though will be Mongol, Chinese and a mix of them, seeing as how the OTL China region is really fertile land and the Mongols tended to devastate the natives in their conquests. As I said, I have very little expertise in that region, I mostly work off of logic and what I can get from books. Does what I've put up so far make sense though? Red VS Blue 20:53, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

What you've put so far does make since. But some of the languages don't really make since. For instance, unless things have changed in Superpowers, Lhasa is not a language. It you're talking about the language the people in Lhasa, Tibet speak that's called Standard Tibetan. Phnom Penh, which you mention as a language is also a city. A like that your saying Vietnamese in Vietnamese instead of English though.Eastward Expansion 21:29, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see what I did wrong. I tried using the ancient language names, but it turns out they're just the anthropological names given to the languages. That would explain why they were named after places. I'd very much appreciate your help in fixing that. Standard Tibetan is too "OTL" to be used as a name sadly. Though would I be right in guessing that you know what could be put in its place? =D Red VS Blue 22:33, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Tibet is actually an Arabic word for "the heights". Tibetans call their land Bho, or sometimes pronounced Pho. Since you call the Mongolian People Mongolianus, you could call Tibetans Bholianus.

As for a language for "Phnom Penh" you actually already have a the language they use(d) there.

Khmer. So far it seems the Khmer are playing a very small role in your timeline.Eastward Expansion 11:52, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that you were being very nice and letting Vegas Addict do a page on the Japanese Navy. I was wondering if you would let me to a page on the Mongolian Army. Here are my ideas, So? Would you mind if I did?Eastward Expansion 20:37, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The Army would be named "Khan's Boong" or "Subutai Boong" (Boong, I just researched, is the Mongolian word for Army, and Subutai was the top general and leading tactician of the mongol army during the first two Khans)
 * 2) Like you said before, I would use Buddhist Monks as a special forces of the Boong (PROUNOUNCED: Boo-NIG)
 * 3) A modern version of the Golden Horde would be the bulk of the army.
 * 4) You can't go wrong with Tanks using medieval Mongol strategies. Sun Tzu's art of war would make a good manual...

Oh, ok I'll make that change to the languages then. Thank you kindly.

Hmmm, Mongolian Army is one of my most important ones and I have future plans for it, so that one is off limits I'm afraid. However, I give you permission to work on the Mongolian's Navy or Air Force together with me, or even a Mongol Culture page. Alternatively, you can also create a Special Forces page, for those Buddhist Monks. I have a Roman special forces page, so a Mongol one would be a wonderful addition. Furthermore, I need a consultant on the Mongol Army page, and I would be very pleased if you would be that consultant. What'll it be? Your choice :) Red VS Blue 21:13, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

I would love to help you on anything you want me to! I think until you start the Mongol Army Page, I'm going to do Mongolian Culture and the Special forces. I've chosen to name the specials, Ongtsegheon (Mongolian word for Special). If you need me to name anything with its Mongolian word, I translate it for you! And then spell it using our alphabet.Pages for the other things you mentioned, I will do as soon as I'm done with these two.Eastward Expansion 12:00, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ah! I'm liking what you have so far on the Mongolian special forces. The addition of forts and bases already is quite nice! I look forward to the rest of it for certain.

I do find it a little funny though that the name for their special forces is their word for special haha Funny in a good way I assure you. Naming things is always an amusing thing to do. And thank you very much for your offer to serve as my translator. I admit the languages are what usually blocks me from working on non-Roman pages to an extent, so a translator is very helpful indeed. Red VS Blue 22:45, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Great! I'm just about to continue the page, so if you see anything wrong or contradictory just let me know.Eastward Expansion 23:40, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Superpowers Edit
Hello. If I could ask, would it be possible to create an article for the Incan Empire? I would love to help out on the article, though. Sorry if this sounds a bit mean, haha.

Thank you,

rcox1995

I will be creating an article for the Incan Empire in due time, though given the present work I have to do on this website, and more importantly other things I'm concerned with elsewhere it will be hard to get that done anytime soon. Perhaps in a week or two. Though if you have any suggestions or ideas feel free to post them here and I'll look through them when the time comes. What do you think of that? Red VS Blue 01:05, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

True, true....Okay, thank you. That is good.

rcox1995

Okay, I'll be starting the Inca Empire article this weekend, so get your ideas ready! =D Red VS Blue 20:50, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks! I will get them ready, haha!

rcox1995

Mongols (Continued...)
I was looking through your list of wars in Superpowers and decided that the first Mongol War the Ongtsegheon would take part in would be the Fourth Mongol Expansion. Since a part of that was the invasion of Japan (and Japan is still independent) that the Mongols lost that one. Can you tell me what you had in mind for that war, and give me a list of the wars (and dates) the Mongols were in? Thanks =) Eastward Expansion 14:03, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Woah, that might be a little hard. I'll give you a write up of what view I have of it in my head right now, but it won't be fully comprehensive yet. Also a complete list of wars would be difficult, there is however an article Wars (Superpowers) that might be of help to you. When compared to the Timeline (Superpowers) its not too hard to have every war in which the Mongols took part in that's been recorded so far. You wouldn't need all of the wars anyway, right? Sorry if that wans't helpful. Red VS Blue 20:50, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh thanks! I've already seen the Wars page, but I need to check out the timeline page. Thanks again!Eastward Expansion 21:24, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clearing that up! I'll make sure they have to deal with the Khmer! Eastward Expansion 13:03, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * And did you like the badges for ranks? The Mongol Flag is really pixilated...Eastward Expansion 13:05, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh I noticed one thing about the Khmer. When you're talking about the people you say "The Khmer", but you are calling them "The Khmerians". There is no such thing as Khmerians. Eastward Expansion 13:14, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I noticed that flag was really pixelated. I also remember that you wanted the flag's line to be straight and you wanted it the same size as your other flags. So I made a new flag for the Mongols.Mongol_Imperial_World_Flag.png
 * =D Yes! Thank you. I was worried it'd be too demanding to ask you to change the flag again so I tried to do so myself. But embarrassingly I failed. So you've definitely saved my skin with that one haha

As for that Khmer thing I had realized that in my research when I was at about the year 1900 in my timeline and I just decided that changing them all would be a waste of my time. If you see any specific ones go ahead and change them but it's just one of the things on my list of things to get to lol

I did indeed see that rank badges, very flag-esque. They're appropriate for such a structured organization though. Kudos to another great piece of visual work! Red VS Blue 02:27, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Oh no! I enjoy helping out in Superpowers! Thank you for voting Yes for Quetzalcoatl's World. Soon I should continue the Ongtsegheon article and then start the other Mongol article....

Eastward Expansion 01:18, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Which Mongol articles have you in mind to work on? I'm feeling anxious to start really expanding my timeline! Red VS Blue 02:58, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

The ones that you mentioned above (culture and airforce of the Mongols). And by the way, did you have anything in mind for something like where the Romans make movies showing the Ongtsegheon as monsters? (I know that was terrible grammar) Or other Roman anti-Ongtsegheon propaganda?Eastward Expansion 14:30, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well that depends, would I be wrong in assuming that the Ongtsegheon have a roll not unlike a combination of KGB and Spetznaz? If you agree with that, well I can imagine the Romans making movies not unlike the James Bond series. Perhaps showing a member of the Roman Intelligence Service combating Ongtsegheon actions. Red VS Blue 14:59, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

That's a great idea! What do you want to name your Roman Super Spy? I'm going to get started writing the popular culture portion of the article.

Sorry I haven't done much recently as far as Superpowers goes.Eastward Expansion 23:25, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

haha I'm sure I'll think of something eventually =P Names are usually highly referential with several meanings here, so I'll come back to you in a day or so with that. Don't worry about it, I fancy myself to be a very patient person, and I very much side with the slow and steady. Take your time and write when you have something to write. Red VS Blue 23:43, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Rise of Rome
A while ago I came across a TL called Rise of Rome, and it seemed like portions of it were coppied straight out of Superpowers. If you go to the Talk Page for it you can see a discussion I had with it's creator.Eastward Expansion 23:25, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't read through the whole timeline, as its rather long, though from what I saw I can't see any overt similarities, aside from Christianity being big there, as you mentioned. If you brought any other similarities to my attention, I'll gladly consider them though.

The main thing which makes me hesitant to see it as being similar is that the author of "Rise of Rome" seems to be unaware of, or perhaps ignored, the butterfly effect. Things in his timeline are uncannily similar to OTL, like REALLY similar, I almost feel like I'm reading a history text for a second or two at some parts. Still, I didn't read too much detail, so I may have missed something. Red VS Blue 23:43, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Incan Empire
The edits were minor, lol. I don't know, I would like to focus on the Inca's involvement with other countries throughout the centuries, and also their involvements in the Great War and the Global War.

Rcox1995 02:27, June 21, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 02:27, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, but any specific suggestions perhaps? I haven't put up much yet, so you can wait till there's more to look over first. I plan to work on it over the course of the week. Red VS Blue 03:16, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I will probably wait until there is more up, and I will then edit it more. Thanks.

Rcox1995 19:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 19:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Hello again. I would be glad to try to help out with one of your goals on modifying and making better the articles on the Mayan, Incan, Japanese and Mongol Empires. The maps I am of no help, but, for information, I am glad to help. We can add our own ideas, as long as they conform with the central timeline, right? Thanks.

Rcox1995 19:14, July 11, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 19:14, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yup =D As always, add any ideas you have to the talk pages of the article in question, and I'll look over it carefully. The Inca page is especially lacking right now, so there's a lot of room for suggestions! Red VS Blue 23:18, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Alright! Thanks! I'll get to work on it during this week.

Rcox1995 01:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 01:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I did a few minor touches to it, mainly concerning the events of the Great War and the Global War. And I have seen that some of the articles are getting better, too. The only thing that is missed from the Incan Empire page is a map.

Sadly enough, I do not have the slightest clue on how to make a map similar to do that.

Thanks. Rcox1995 01:42, July 24, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 01:42, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

That's good to hear. Unfortunately no good ideas have come to me on the Inca page, I'm still struggling with an economic and political system for them. I'm working on some kind of autocracy with the Sapa Inca, but I feel like they'd have a parliament of some kind, like a good clean one. Economically I'm thinking an advanced kind of mercantilism, but I can't reconcile that with any "modern" ones. Any ideas to help me with their economy or government?

Oh a map...right, that'll take about a minute for me to do. Funny I haven't made that yet =P Red VS Blue 02:35, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

I would probably not be of too much help on the economic issues, but the government issues is something that I could probably do. Yeah, maybe an autocratic parliament system? Haha, maybe, I guess.....

A minute?! Haha, nice.

Rcox1995 03:04, July 24, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 03:04, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yup, all I had to do was use the fill option on paint in a premade template of the year 2000. Quick stuff lol It was made and posted probably as you were writing that response.

Anyway I was rereading my Tawatinsuyu page and I realized that I've already written it as a constitutional monarchy, but that can be easily bended to autocratic parliament. All I need is an OTL equivalent or two and I can loosely base a government on that. If you can help me get a good idea of it in mind, I can probably write the government part tomorrow, shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to an hour to create. Then again, I'm feeling a bit energetic now and may be overstating myself a little. Regardless, it shouldn't be too difficult. Red VS Blue 03:11, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-made template? Ah, I see. Yeah, that could....Um, I would like to say that you could use the....I'll look them up. Haha. Lol, it's fine. I'll look it up, too. And I will do whatever I can.

Rcox1995 03:19, July 24, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 03:19, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Alright. Well I'm in no hurry, so find whatever information you have in mind and I'll work on the page once we've got a plan ready. For now I'll be getting some rest. Goodnight.

Red VS Blue 03:22, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I have searched, and I have found probably the best one: the Tsarist government of the Russian Empire after the Revolutions of 1905 and the establishment of the Duma. That would probably be the best, as the Czar still had nearly of his powers, and could dissolve the Duma at will, prevent laws from passing, etc.

Rcox1995 18:30, July 25, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 18:30, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, after reading a bit about the Duma I think I see how I could apply that to the Inca Empire. I'll write something up and you can tell me what you think. Red VS Blue 22:02, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the edit was good. It fits in well, and it is as I though that it would be like. Thanks! It is becoming better, haha.

Rcox1995 16:49, July 26, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995Rcox1995 16:49, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Japan (Continued)
Is it ok if i create an artical on the Japanese Naval Air Arm/ Japanese Airforce as thier closely tied together and to the Japanese Navy?Vegas adict 15:31, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

For the moment no, but once I get back from my trip I'll look more into the importance of the Japanese Air Force and see if there's anything specific that I need to add first. Keep your hopes up though, I'll most likely give my consent. Red VS Blue 02:27, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Can i go ahead with the Japanese Air Force?Vegas adict 19:23, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you may start the Japanese Air Force page. Though first, what will you be calling it? I'm looking for something at least moderately complex. Red VS Blue 02:58, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'l be calling it the Nippon no mottomo takai kūgun (Literaly:the most high air forces of Japan) however i probabley won't be starting on it for at least another week as i'm trying to finish off my plan for the Balklans in Wasteland Europe and will be going away to germany for a week soon.Vegas adict 15:44, July 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's alright, it'll give me some time to work on some more of my Japanese articles, and even make some edits of my own to the Navy page. Well, have fun on your trip! Red VS Blue 13:23, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Strategy
Are you going to go any further with Strategy? ProfessorMcG 18:34, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I do indeed, I have quite a bit to add. I'll be away at a friend's cottage for the next few days, so there won't be any additions for a few days, probably. But once I get back I plan to focus on that and keep work going on my timeline as well. Red VS Blue 02:22, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

I thought you might like to know that the Total War games were designed by Michael Simpson (Who lives in my neighboring town!!) and Risk was designed by the french film director Albert LamorisseVegas adict 19:23, June 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * haha Most fascinating! =D I had wrote that in jest though, glad to see it's been noticed =P Red VS Blue 02:58, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Apologies and a Fond Farewell
Good morning, Red VS Blue,
 * First off I'd like to start with an apology. I'm deeply sorry for just up-and-leaving your TL like that; I have too many real world problems, I'm too easily distracted, and I was disillusioned into thinking I could create a successful AH of my own, and well I got all of my priorites mixed up and slowly forgot about all the TLs that mattered. Regrettably over the months I began to forget about yours, but all of that changes. As much as I would like to help you with everything I promised (the Greek provinces, Greek Diaspora, and Greek-derived loanwords used by the Romans), I've become rather saddened by the decay of this wikia, and I've decided that for the few days I'll be here that I should try to warn the members of this site that things can get much worse than they've already become while being as rude as possible in the process. So, I have to officially give up all that I promised to help you with, for which I deeply apologize. I'm so happy to see that I've been replaced by people who are actually, shall we say "better" and more reliable than me that you can have fun with, and I'm so happy that your AH has grown twofold since I last visited. So, I won't be forgetting your Superpowers ATL any time soon, and I'll rather miss the fun we had.


 * Cheers,

Brian Constantine John Mr.Xeight 05:56, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hello fellow-John :)
 * First I have to say thank you very much; even though I would constantly wonder away, you still took the time and effort to write such a wonderful and king letter to me, and for that not only am I grateful, but utterly amazed at how you are proof that humanity is kind and forgiving (something you might like to know; I'm a huge proponent that humanity is intrisically good and don't particularly like when people say humanity is programmed to like violence and that essentially we're programmed to be savage; just a random fact for you :D).
 * Your kind words have actually convinced me that I should stay, there's no reason I have to "go out with a bang" by being as rude as possible to everyone before I go. So, will you take me back? However, I leave for Greece at 4:15 AM July 1st and won't be back until the 20th (or 21st depending on what time and the whole eight-hour difference between Chicago-Time and UTC+02 Time), so I only have a small window of opportunity to go on my computer tomorrow. So, when I return, will you take me back? Again, thank you very much for being so kind and forgiving.

Mr.Xeight 00:17, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Central World
Hi might you help expand or create articles for Central World. is a small community project, please answer me, VENEZUELA 01:30, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Advancement
Well thanks! I'll add you as a Scientific Advisor on the joining page. But do you think (based on Destroyanator's argument in the talk page here that it would be possible to colonize Venus?

Eastward Expansion 13:53, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering about something. would a man-portable railgun be feasible? The technology is more-or-less 200 years in the future, but the power requirements would be daunting even then. What do you think? BoredMatt 14:23, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Can you tell me which planets, dwarf planets, and moons you think could be colonized?

Eastward Expansion 18:42, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Also, what is your opinion on ship propulsion systems? I'm invisioning a dual rocket-ion engine combonation for must ships (rocket thrusters for manuvering, deacceleration, and short bursts of speed, and ion engines for long-term acceleration). Would a Bussard Ramjet be feasible? Or a fusion rocket? BoredMatt 18:47, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Technology
I'm going to be working on the new vehicles and propulsion in the Advancement TL, I was wondering if you could work on the posible future weaponry systems and everyday technology?Vegas adict 16:54, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you so much!

Eastward Expansion 21:36, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! BoredMatt 22:39, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, your being such a great help!

Eastward Expansion 13:17, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Could you work on the artical itself, please?--Vegas adict 20:26, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

The page is here Technology (Advancement)Vegas adict 20:52, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Another question, Red. Could Lenz's Law be applied to levitation(frankly, that is the only application), and be made efficient enough for actual use? BoredMatt 20:53, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of, only to resist motion. Once something stops moving in the magnetic field, then the field would stop affecting it. If an alternating magnetic field were used, this still wouldn't make it levitate. I believe, though I'm not certain, that it could be used for a shielding system though, since a bullet made of metal would be slowed down as it produces an opposing magnetic field and then become useless as a penetrator.

For levitation you need superconductors that utilize the Messner effect or something like that, its the only way, and even then there are tons of limits.

And thank you Vegas, I'll get on that momentarily. Red VS Blue 21:20, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Is there a minimum distance for space elevators to be safely spaced, or would it not matter? BoredMatt 18:57, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

No, there wouldn't be such a multi national organization. Although, one thing I think should definitely be in the technology article is space piracy.

Eastward Expansion 19:06, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, ok, I was asking about the latter interpretation. Thanks!!! BoredMatt 19:15, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

CYOAH Nomination
I would be honoured if you nominated Choose Your Own Alternate History! as a featured TL, but when you do, please say that the wider community is the editors of CYOAH, as I myself have only added four or five since I created it, so I think it would be inappropriate for myself to be the only credited editor.

And to think that I thought my main POD, French Trafalgar, British Waterloo would be my first TL to be nominated for Featured status, while CYOAH was supposed to be a funny little divergance!

But, I would like to thank you for beliving CYOAH is worthy of Featured Status!

Tbguy1992 23:20, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

2753?
Hey Red, I was looking over the Superpowers portal page, and it says the year is sometime around 2753. I know the OTL calendar is based on Jesus, but, this one appearantly isn't? I don't mind that much, though I would like some clarification as to why it is that year as opposed to any other year. Other than that, I'd say Superpowers is just about the most awesome ficticious I have ever read (Second only to Harry Potter, but then, you can't have everything.) Also, and this just crossed my mind, what Time Zone are you in, in relation to the West coast of the US? Finally, I see still have achievements enabled, are you not part of the Revolution? (Pfff, typical Canadian; always not rebeling, with their Socialist Healthcare, and. . . Cold. . .ness. . . GO USA *smoke bomb* FREEDOM AND REMOVAL OF "E"'S AND "U"S FROM WORDS FOREVER! *trips* THIS CHANGES NOTHING *second smoke bomb*)

My regards (You team-killing fucktard) Jazon Naparleon 02:42, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Old Friend
Hey, John!
 * I'm sorry it's taken me so long to tell you that I'm back, and I'm ready to come back to the Superpowers Timeline, if you'd take me! Perhaps you might like some help with more Greek-vocab into Latin, as well as articles on the various Greek-speaking states?
 * And, John, I'd like to know if you could help me. It feels like it's time for me to wrap-up my part in 1983:Doomsday, and as such I've decided to go out with a bang and really develop the Federation of Greece and Second Sicily War before I go, I've assembled a team of good men who have agreed to help me and become co-caretakers of the Federation. However, I'm looking for a good successor, and I think you'd be the best. Would like to become a co-caretaker with me, and when I move on from 1983 for good, take over as head-caretaker?

Mr.Xeight 17:55, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

You picked my favourite time period of Greece (1000 CE-the Fall of the Monarchy); I'd love to help you! Also, I'm fascinated by the Huguenots, would you mind if I lend a hand to the French Reformation as well? Mr.Xeight 19:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Aw, John, don't worry about it; you have Fidei Definsor and Superpowers, you don't have to add another TL to your list. I understand if you're busy and can't do it, and believe me, I can understand being busy (like I should be doing the mountain of "getting to know you"-questionairre garbage given by all six of my teachers-I still have three more packets of usless questions to answer!). But, if you'd like, the Second Sicily War is a big subject I stopped caring about. I reread my old writings and it turned out I had a huge blitz of Greco-Alpinian forces charge into the Peninsula; and that was bloody November 29th! I would think by August the fighting's just guerilla warfare and the Greeks and Alipinians are just trying to restore order in their occupied zones. How much of the Peninsula the two nations control is beyond me; war isn't my strong-suit. Anyway another massive thing that needs to be done is a PR campaign to show the group that the Federation of Greece is alive and kicking. The dynamic-duo of Macedonia and Turkey are convinced that the nation I tend to is ASB and are planning a complete dissasembly of the Federation, but BoredMatt brought up the whole bloody Greek Army was stationed in Central Greece and Macedonia-and neither of them care! So perhaps by gently telling the world Greece is by far the dominant nation in the Eastern Med, things might turn out okay. Mr.Xeight 01:04, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, Lord, I forgot to ask you what you're planning on Greece, Aragon, and French Protestantism in Fidei Defensor; when I get my three-day weekends, what ideas of yours should I work around? Mr.Xeight 01:07, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Reading about Henry IV on Wikipedia I came across a conspiracy theory where Aragonese crypto-Muslims and French Protestants would attack Aragon and thus pry it away from its union with Castille; the Ottomans also agreed to help. It fell apart because the Ottoman fleet never arrived and John of Austria arrived in Aragon. What if in Fidei Defensor, with more Huguenots, and with the Ottomans actually backing up the crypto-Muslims and Huguenots, a new Aragonese-state can be made that ensures religious freedom to all Abrahamic religions, and the Aragonese can being to convert to Protestantism. Then the Aragonese language can survive to OTL with more than 10,000 native speakers and 30,000 all-together speakers? Oh, you can read about the plot at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_IV_of_France#Ottoman_Empire Mr.Xeight 01:18, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, John, I think my heart just stopped because I got so happy after hearing you like the idea :D
 * It wouldn't be too powerful, Spain would make sure of it; Italy, Malta, Sicily, and maybe not even Sardinia would join Aragon during the split. Now of course Iberian Muslims and Iberian Jews are going to pack up and head for Barcelona and Zaragoza as opposed to Thessaloniki or the Barbary. Now, my main goal here would be to have the Aragonese language not dying out, so perhaps the new government can stress the Aragonese-language as both the administrative, business, and vernacular to distance itself from Castille and show the world it's not a lacky of France (even though it probably will be). The Aragonese Muslims might develop their own dialect of Aragonese though, no doubt having Arabic be a huge influence on it. Likewise, Ladino might become an Judeo-Aragonese dialect and not pick up Greek and Turkish loanwords and not be a Castillian-based language. Finally, I don't know how the Catholic Aragonese would take this flood of "heretics" into their land. Since they're promised equal rights and religious freedom, maybe they might be just another ethnicity and some might convert to Calvinism. Or maybe Aragonese-Catholics might flee to Castille or the Italian-territories that used to be under Aragonese rule, which I would not like to see happen at all. Anyway, I can tell you, I think we're going to have a lot of fun with this idea? :) Oh and would this be a kingdom and the king be a French-Bourbon, or would it be a nobles' republic like what almost happened in the 1200s? I don't think Europe, not even the allies of the new state (France, the Ottomans, Algiers) would want a republic because you know how monarchies find republics threatening. Thus, I would go for the former idea and just put a cousin or younger brother of Henry IV of Navarre on the throne. Oh, and do you think Henry might also get the parts of Navarre Castille stole from France back? Maybe they can play on Calvinistic-loyalties because I doubt Basque nationalism would work-the Basques were allowed quite a bit of freedom within the Union of Aragon-and-Castille, and were loyal to Castille during the Seven Year's War. Oh, how would feel about the Ottomans dumping some Greek rabble-rousers in Aragon and a few communities of Aragon be Aragonese-speaking (albeit with a very Greek flavour), Greek-Orthodox Christians? Not too many-I can't depopulate the Motherland! :D

Mr.Xeight 02:45, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Your New Timeline
So your making a new TL? Well, congrats! I hope it turns out just as amazing as Superpowers was! And Thanks, Red, for the great contributions, common sense (something it seems few people have) and time that you've given to this wiki! May your new timeline prosper!

Eastward Expansion 22:02, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

XD

I just wanted to thank you for helping in the ongoing struggle (dramatic and exaggerated pause) to cleanse this wiki of vandalism and those sorts! XD.

Anyway, yes I'm hoping to soon awake Advancement from its current downfall. I've been off this site for about a wiki, and since then it seems like everything has turned into a ghost town! Maybe when fall starts things will pick up again...

So yes, I must return Advancement to its former glory! (you've probably noticed by now that I kinda talk weird)

I'm gonna work on the history page sometime today.

Eastward Expansion 22:42, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Quick Question
I have a little question. Somewhere, I remember you talking about how AEtas Ab Brian is one of the greatest TLs. To me its just confusing, and I really don't understand it. I'm sure though, if I understood the gist of it then I would probably enjoy it.

So can you tell me what the POD for it is?

Sorry to bother you, I should probably just find out who made AEtas Ab Brian...

Eastward Expansion 22:42, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Good...I'm glad I don't too weird...

Anyway, thank you for explaining that about AEtas...

I might be able to read and understand its pages a little better now...And yes, now I'm actually going to work on Advancement again.

Eastward Expansion 15:06, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Really? I thought Europeans all by the Middle Ages thought such ideas heretical or flat out wrong.

Eastward Expansion 15:26, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I was certain that most people (if not everyone) thought the Earth was flat...

Eastward Expansion 16:24, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I suppose I'll change that, and start working on a the history page now...

Eastward Expansion 15:26, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

About your Roman Senate
Yes, I know this is going to sound weird but I have to say... I LOVE THE FRAKIN IDEA G!!!!!! A lot of it sounds righteous even and sounds like it could form a NEAR perfect governmental system OR at least better then the one the USA has now (no offence meant).--DaBigUn 16:14, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Checks and balances, but also a gairinty for the people regarding Health and Education to the masses. Also the simple fact that I have a simple set bi-est to imperial governments like YOUR version of the Roman Government. Overall, the only thing I see somewhat wrong is the fact that the Emperor(Cesar) is not held to tell the truth, for the most part, or to make sure that he doesn't become to much of a tirent (although I believe you have it where the Senate/Supreme Congress can vote to kill/boot the Emperor out of power ONLY if the evidence is found to support the deeds that they are killing/booting him for).--DaBigUn 16:14, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

PS: sry for the misspellings, just got up.--DaBigUn 16:14, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yea it is, but you do have to know some things about government (in particular the Roman) and may need to know something about the imperial system's used in history (like one)--DaBigUn 04:23, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Reino d'Aragón (possibly the Corona d'Aragón)
Now I know you didn't want to clutter our talkpages' with discussions of Aragon, but I couldn't figure out how to post a picture on the blog page, so I'll put it here, if'n you don't mind. Oh, John, you can call me by name chrismation name (which according to the Orthodox Churches is my given name), Constantine, so as to avoid confusion-I mean we're both comfortable with calling each other by our first names ;). Also, I suppose we can just say that the Sardinians figured the Aragonese would be better rulers than the Castillians since at least under Aragon they'll get autonomy and religious-freedom, plus the French fleet hanging around the Sardinian coasts and destroying the Castillian fleets in various Sardinian ports, as well as the promise Arab pirates will never invade Sardinia again (which they did regularly) might sway the Sardinians, too. Mr.Xeight 23:07, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Talk on future plans for Superpowers
I have a few questions. First of all, didn't you say that sometime in the near future that you were going to make a new map of the world in the timeline Superpowers?

Also, I love the Bellum Aegudis (sp?) page! It's definitely good. And, I really need to get around to working on the Inca page, but when you make the People's Imperium of Danemarc page, I will be glad to help!

Thanks,

Rcox1995 22:31, August 31, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Oh true, on the timeline page, correct? I may have said that, I can't remember now haha. I'll refine some things on a map I have on my computer for 1200 AD then I'll refine it with the changes I've made to the timeline in the past year. Thanks for reminding me about that.

Oh, speaking of the Inca page I've learned some great new information about their economy. Apparently the Inca had some extreme socialist system, even in the 1400's and 1500's OTL and I could easily adapt that to a modern economic system. I'd just have to not make it too much like the Mayan's economy, which is also pretty socialist.

Ah, the Imperium of danemarc, unfortunately I haven't gotten to creating other nation pages since for most of them I don't feel happy about the current names of the countries. Like Imperium of Danemarc sounds good, but I keep having a nagging feeling it doesn't make sense. I dunno, what do you think? Red VS Blue 22:49, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think you did, somewhere, about a present-day map, and that it would drastically different. Okay. You did? Alright, that sounds like it would work perfectly! Yes, I can understand what you mean about those. I like the name of Danemarc, because it still shows its Platonist roots and all. And, like the Zulu Empire? Yeah, I understand.

Rcox1995 22:55, August 31, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Oh a present day map? It's up, for the year 2000 AD. I have plans to go further, but that's a whole other story, and is still pretty far away for now. Though what you might have seen me mention is that I have plans for where the timeline is going and they'll drastically change things, I don't know if I mentioned anything about maps there lol

Oh, so I should keep the "People's" part of the Danemarc name you think? Cause I figured it would be removed once they lost the Bellum Aegidis, seeing as how the Romans and such would want to keep them away from their Platonist ways. And "Grand Zulu Republic" works then? Cause then Republic of Khmer is kind of bland in that case lol Red VS Blue 23:08, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you should keep the "People's" part. Yeah, it would. The Republic of Khmer, I have no idea what to change that to, lol.

Rcox1995 23:27, August 31, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

haha Alright then, I'll keep that in mind then lol

Also I added another map that it turns out I'd made at the start of summer. It's only for 1095 AD, but it shows a lot of changes already. Also I just started working on a Culture (Superpowers) page, would you mind taking a look and offering a little feedback? I like getting an idea of what the general impression that readers get from it. Red VS Blue 00:53, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

I have yet to look at the map, but I will soon enough. Yeah, I read all of it, and it's all really good. It pretty much describes everything about the cultures and everything. - Rcox1995

haha yes. The attention in your feedback is most impressive =P I'm only kidding. I'm rather busy now too lol You don't need to offer any critique if you don't feel like it. Red VS Blue 01:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Lol, sorry. I see. Yes, I saw the map, and it is indeed much more drastic than what I thought it would be. The advancement of the Romans into Saharan Africa was already becoming apparent, as well as the expansion into Germania and what not. And the Great Chiefdom, O_O.

Rcox1995 21:55, September 1, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

hahaha Well, when you carry stories with you of an evil tribe with magic fire sticks and a penchant for kidnapping and sacrificing your people, you won't have too hard a time convincing people to join you =P Red VS Blue 22:11, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

I guess so...though the Great Chiefdom is like the United States of Native Americans, only on some sort of uber-drug....Lol. Well, it still exists today, just because of magical fire sticks that were of the Mayans.

Rcox1995 23:02, September 1, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Keep in mind though, the Chiefdom isn't expanding, its just adding new tribes to its membership. So it basically expands as fast as news of the advancing Mayans spreads. The UCC that still exists today is a different country, it just rules over the same people. It goes from an alliance to a republic basically Red VS Blue 23:26, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess so. It would not have mattered, anyways. The Mayans and Romans pushed them way far back, so I don't think it matters so much, anymore. Lol. Yes, that is true....Haha.

Rcox1995 23:47, September 1, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Superpowers
Sure, I can look at your TL. I'll get to it as soon as I am finished helping Tbguy. Mitro 14:30, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Bellum Aegedis
Your newest article is awesome (as usual). I wonder if there is such a thing as alternate alternate history. Such as one when the Mongols joine the Confederacy. Eastward Expansion 22:17, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Why thank you =D I don't mean to toot my own horn (well sometimes I do :P) but I've put a lot of work into it and I myself am pleased at how its turning out.

Now that's an interesting idea. I've toyed with the thought of some kind of splinter timelines, like extra divergences, but I figured that would have to wait till I'd finished the entire timeline. You're right though, that would make a really good divergence, and I'll definitely try to remember to add that when I make a page to propose splits in the timeline. A few other good ones I can think of is the Roman Emperor rejects the idea of the "Columbia" continent that is theorized to exist in the middle of the Atlantic (maybe because they don't name it after him haha), or maybe Mayapan is exiled from his city (for being possessed or whatever) and goes to Teotihuacan instead, eventually creating the "Mexican Conglomerate" haha There's as many alternate histories for this as there are for our universe lol Red VS Blue 22:41, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

hahahaha Thats purty funny. Lol. Any way, yes if you don't want to make another timeline with extra PODs then you could right a page about famous literary works. Maybe the genre Alternate History would be more popular in this world....

Eastward Expansion 22:43, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well I like the idea of a page that suggests PODs within the timeline. I wouldn't work on these "alternate" alternates, but other people could. If you want you could work on one when I make such a page. It'd be a whole other canon, and would only have to follow the timeline of everything that happened before it. Could be pretty cool. To make things interesting, I could write the page in the format that the timelines from the PODs are "althistory novels" written by modern writers of the Superpowers world. That integrates what you said pretty well. Red VS Blue 22:52, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

FTBW
Hey, I was wondering if you wouldn't want to help look over my TL, and, in turn, I will try to do my best to help you with yours in return? Tbguy1992 04:17, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your points, and for reading my TL! Unfortunatly, my internet is down, so I won't be able to give you full details on responses and about Superpowers for a bit (I'm doing this on an iPod touch at the moment, and it's very difficult to do much on here), but I will respond as soon as I get my Internet working again! Tbguy1992 02:23, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, my internet is working again, so I can reply to what you said about my TL...


 * The actual battle of Trafalgar was a British victory because Nelson used his limited number of ships (he had about 2 for the combined French-Spanish three) in a different way than the traditional two opposing fleets firing at each other until one side had the most damage. Think of it as like if a bunch of cars in two teams on the highway threw rocks and bottles and each other at less than twenty kilometers per hour, until one team gives up, and leaves the road. Nelson, on the other hand, decided to divide his 28 some ships into two columns and drive straight into the side of the massed French-Spanish fleet, which would cause the most damage to the bow and stern, the most exposed part of sailing warships. In this TL, The French had over fifty ships (though Nelson had no idea), and they were split up into four segments, so that when Nelson attacked like he did in OTL, the French would summon the other three segments to surround the British ships, and destroy them.


 * As for going back on the Treaty of Copenhagen: it would have been possible, but what if part of the French fleet went to seize India or Canada? Sure, it would protect the Isles, but what about the rest of the Empire (I'm still going to change it so that all but one ship, Nelson's flag ship, the Victory are sunk or captured in battle; that would better throw off the nearly destroyed Royal Navy, while still giving them enough strength to fight the US in ten years or so. Most likely, I'll add that the British went a new ship building spree, managing to replace all the ships lost at Trafalgar in seven-eight years.


 * Napoleon united Italy by decreeing it, and working with Italian nationalists. Napoleon decided that Italy would be better as a united, strong ally, than a divided, weak ally. Many people may not have liked it, but eventually Napoleon is going to give the various nations virtual independence in the alliance, although it later on doesn't work out so well.


 * That is a good story about Jackson! I changed it after Mitro pointed out some things that wouldn't have worked, so what you saw was the redone version.


 * You know what: your right about the military and education reforms. Prussia would have really needed sweeping Military reforms, and maybe the other countries would make minor military reforms, just so they may be able to stand up to France in the future. Educational reforms may not come until the 1860's-1890's in Europe and America, when they realize they can use the school system to train the youth to be loyal and patriotic soldiers. Education wouldn't have been available to the masses until this time, anyway. Russia only expanded its Black Seas Fleet (secretly, mind you) so that they could more easily take on Ottoman Turkey, Czar Nicholas I's main goal in this TL.


 * I haven't really done much on Technology and society issues in FTBW, mostly because I'm not really sure how to tie it in to the main story. Most likely Slavery would be gradually done away with in Britain and France, and the South USA (later the CSA, as they win their freedom in 1862) will also slowly do away with it under Robert E. Lee. The basic thing about FTBW is that the world's technological advances are sometimes earlier than in OTL, up to five-ten years earlier, and rarely later, as with a strong France and defeated US, the various nations have to find away to be able to match up with their opponents, then they have to be able to catch up, etc. etc. Their is no "Pax Britannia", so their is really no peaceful period in this story like their was in OTL.


 * If you have any ideas about FTBW, and how I can change it, let me know, and I'll do as much as I can.


 * As for Superpowers, all I can say is "whoa." Really, the only thing I see wrong with some of your stories is the "accidental discoveries" that seem to pop up, like Mayan Gunpowder, and Roman motors, etc. etc. Although most major discoveries, like penicillin were accidents, some things like TV's, internet, rifled artillery, rockets etc. etc. were designed and such. But, other than that, their really isn't much I can say, and I know that they are important to the story, so you don't have to change them on my account.


 * I otherwise haven't had a good chance to look up much on Superpowers, though I have read bits of it since I really started editing on here, in later 2009. I will, though, try to read more, and give you my thoughts! They won't be great, as I suck at critiquing, but I will try my best!


 * Thanks, and I hope to hear from you soon! Tbguy1992 18:06, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'll just keep the rest of the conversation to here :P haha

That answers a lot then. I still have one issue. I understand that Napoleon could potentially keep Italy united by the force of his reputation and his armies, but I think once he dies the Italians would revert to their old ways, and most likely split. But that's a small issue overall. I'll check out the next page tomorrow and see what I can point out then.


 * Well I agree the Mayan discoveries aren't too likely, and that's why the discovery of gunpowder and the wheel are the American POD (going along with the birth of their discoverer). As for the motor its explained better in the detailed timeline and it actually takes about 70 years after discovering the principle behind an electric motor before one is actually built, and then a great many more years before a practical motor is built. One thing I like about the electricity technology in my timeline is that the batteries found by the Romans in Persia aren't speculation, there actually were weak batteries made in the Parthian period that ended up being left in storage because they couldn't find a use for them.

Thanks for your comments though, and I'm just wondering, what part of the timeline are you reading? The general one or the detailed one? haha I realize its all pretty long, and I appreciate that you're taking the time to read some of it =D Red VS Blue 19:07, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Made edit on Tawanitsuyu page
I just adjusted the Tawanitsuyu page a bit to account for the Bellum Aegedis page that you just set up and everything. I just wanted to see if everything checked out okay.

Rcox1995 01:45, September 4, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Thank you! It's a good addition to the main page. Some time soon I'll get back to the Tawatinsuyu and maybe spell check it a bit and add an economy section. But I'm focusing on advancing the timeline for the time being. Red VS Blue 02:00, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I understand. Besides, I am also greatly interested in the Timeline so far.

Rcox1995 03:31, September 4, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

That's good. What have you read in my timeline so far, if you don't mind me asking. Red VS Blue 14:22, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, almost everything, lol. I don't think I read a couple of the first few pages, but I'm already past the Imperial Civil War and the Great Emperor Magnus. Oh, and thank you for mentioning me in the 100th page article. Hooray for the Inca! Lol.

Rcox1995 20:50, September 4, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Really now? All of it? Well that's a feat in itself lol Even the entire General Timeline page? That one's like 100,000 bytes of data. Red VS Blue 00:23, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much. I had too much free time during the summer, I guess. Lol.

Rcox1995 00:46, September 5, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

So it would seem hahaha Well at least now I know that my work has an audience! No sense writing things other than to be read, am I right? I'm wondering then. What's your favorite article do you think? Red VS Blue 00:52, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, indeed. Do you mean out of all 100 articles?

Rcox1995 01:13, September 5, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Yup =D Red VS Blue 01:27, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...then probably either the Roman Empire or the Mayan Conglomerate page. Both of them are great, well-written, and everything.

Rcox1995 01:36, September 5, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Ya? That's not all that surprising lol What about images? Do you have a favorite picture in the timeline? hahaha Ya I'm basically giving you a survey :P Red VS Blue 01:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Lol. It's fine. Hmm...the maps are the best part. I love the maps, absolutely do. Lol. The other images are great, but the maps are the best. Lol.

Rcox1995 02:14, September 5, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Sygharitíria
Congratulations on your 100th article, John! Mr.Xeight 22:29, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well thank you! Especially as I owe it more to you than you might yourself think =D That word there, I'm guessing it means "congratulations"? :P It doesn't look very Greek though. Red VS Blue 00:23, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Aw, thanks. It does in fact mean congratulations, and I put it in Latin letters because I was feeling lazy I wanted people to be able to read it ;). Also, I left a message regarding Greece on your thread page, and I'm currently trying to think more about Aragon since anything pertaining to Greece won't come for awhile. I'm wondering how the Catholic Aragonese will take these two groups deemed heretical being the ones doing the revolting; will they side with the Calvinists and Muslims because they're the enemies of their enemies (Hapsburgs/Castillians), or will old hatreds not die hard and the Aragonese will relunctly not support the rebels and side with Castile or launch an alternate revolt? You have to remember, the Aragonese-Catholics were major-biggots, especially their kings-the Inquisition was started in Aragon by the wildly-sectarian Ferdinand* (IV?) and all subsequent kinds were equally intolerant due to being raised that way. That toxic-level of intolerance might trickle down to the common people, unfortunately. Mr.Xeight 05:02, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Malta in Central World
Hi Red vs Blue would you like to write an article about Malta in Central World. VENEZUELA 03:01, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Sure. I'd love to write about Malta. Is there a page for it already? Red VS Blue 22:54, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

The World
Awesome edits, and I like it that you put down all of the world's capitals. Have you made a location for the capitals like the Mongol's, the Khmer's, and the Zulu's?

Sorry, I'm just a bit curious.

Rcox1995 17:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

The Mongol's and Zulul's capital I have not yet decided, but Djayakarta (Khmer capital) is in the same location Jakarta OTL. Red VS Blue 12:51, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Of course, the Mongol's capital will be near OTL China, I assume? Yeah, that is understandable for the Khmer capital, considering that their original capital is in Mongol hands now.

Rcox1995 14:43, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. I think the Mongol capital at OTL Xi'an actually. I just checked the city page to be sure. The area was mostly abandoned at the time of the Mongol conquest, and it has conditions (ie location) that make it suitable to be turned into the Mongol capital. Red VS Blue 15:37, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Xi'an, huh? Indeed, that does sound like it would be the perfect capital. Oh yeah, and do you know where you will also place the Columbian capital?

Rcox1995 19:17, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yes actually, the Columbian capital is at OTL Vancouver and Victoria. It's close to the border, but it was made their capital long before the Mayan border got there. It's easily defensible by sea though, which is why it was originally chosen as the capital. The name of the capital also means "Settlement" in the Mohawk language. Which is one of the primary dialects of the UCC. Red VS Blue 20:45, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...That is a good location for a capital. It's still also somewhat far from the Mayan border, so...Yeah. Haha.

Rcox1995 00:50, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Possible usuage of this Timeline?
Hello there, again. I would like to ask if I could use some of the information from this timeline for an RP that I have been thinking about for another website. If not, it's fine. I was just asking you, because the message on your home page scared me a bit....Lol.

Thanks.

rcox1995Rcox1995 23:21, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Oh hey buddy.

I'm very flattered that you'd like to use it, and by RP you mean research project? What is the nature of it? I've been careful about other people's interaction and use of the timeline since I intend to do actual writing on it later in life when I have the time, but I'm interested to hear what you had in mind =D Red VS Blue 23:31, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...well, actually, it was roleplaying. But, if you plan to use for writing later in your life, then it's fine. Sorr!!!

Rcox1995 23:42, November 12, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

Oh hahaha I'm too used to RP being research project lol But I'm sorry, in that case I'm saying no. May I ask what website this is? Red VS Blue 23:44, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

It's fine. I expected it to be no in that case, but thank you again. It is just a little website that me and some other Avatar: The Last Airbender fans started up, but, it's fine.

Rcox1995 23:46, November 12, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995

K cool. Well, I hope you find some alternative TL :D

While we're talking though, you wouldn't have happened to notice my latest additions to my timeline, have you? Red VS Blue 00:52, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yep.

And, yes, I have. All of the new additions are interesting and great, as normal. Lol.

rcox1995Rcox1995 01:09, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Calendation Systems (Superpowers)
Hey Red VS Blue, I just created a new article on your portal: Calendation Systems!!!! I just am beginning to construct it, but I hope you could add some pictures of calendars to assist me in this work.

So this is the summary:

The Romans, Mayans, and the Japanese use a solar calendar; The Incas use a lunar calendar, and the Mongols use a luni-solar calendar.

I'm gonna research more on this, pal.

Gabsboy123 11:01, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Calendation Systems #2
Hi Red VS Blue!

I just updated the Calendation Systems (Superpowers), but I need pictures of calendars. Anyway, check my article out!! Make any necessary edits/ improvements without compromising my work.

Gabsboy123 03:27, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

A message of great importance
Red, you of all people know the effects of the new skin on the wiki, so I won't bore you with details. All you need to know, is there is a war going on, and we need you;

. . .I. ..

Who would do this? Who would make an Althistory like this? Worsening what was already the worst tragedy in American history? Curse my vivid imagination; I can see myself there, amongst the dead and the dying. ..

'Tis truly a horrifying sight.

For a time, I have been silent.

But I can hold my feelings no longer! It may just be the new skin, or it may be a sudden influx of stupid people, but the way I see our AH wiki. . .OUR wiki, which belonged to the people, has been sucked up, into some sort alien spaceship, never to be seen again! And now we have THIS, this monstrosity! Sic Semper Tyrannis! I knew we couldn't trust them! For too long we ate out of their hands, lulled into a false sense of security! And now they rip the rug out from under us! We have given them Leeway, and we have put up with the many things gone wrong since the new skin was instated, but I say neigh!

I say we give those rabscallions one week to meet our demands, or we will move off, off to the AWA!

Who is with me? A call to arms I say! Who shall join me in this rebellion? In this taking up arms against our oppressors! Agains all the evil of all the lands! *takes in big breath, begins shouting* WE SHALL STORM INTO THE HALLS OF WIKIA, AND DEEMAND OUR FREEDOM! WE WILL NO LONGER EAT CAKE, BUT REJOICE WITH PIE! WE SHALL SHOW THEM WHAT FOR! WE! SHALL! BE! FREE!

Some of you may be against me, some of you will be saying

"Jazon! This is too far, too much! We cannot abandon Wikia after they have broken our legs" And I would say

"Go on! Stay here and fight with your loyalist brothers! I am not here to stop you! I am here to free the others!" Some will say

"Jazon, a week is too short a time, surely we can be more patient!" And I would say

"Go and join your loyalist friends! If you are not with me, you are against me! One week I say, and not a second more!"

Even if I have to do it myself, if I have to I will have a navy of rowboats! An army of bicycles! An air force of one hot air balloon being pulled by a pestered Pachyderm!

So I say again! Those devils in Wikia will not stand a week from now! Who will join my cause? Or must I go Benidect Arnold upon them?

That is all

Red, all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Do not let evil triumph.

Jazon Naparleon 04:39, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Gentlemen indeed. We shall carry out our planning and such here;

http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/User_talk:Jazon_Naparleon

Glad to have you abaord, Red.

Jazon Naparleon 05:22, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well, the ceasefire has been called, no one has been banned (that I know of), no blood has been shed, and we now have our own wiki! http://alternatehistory.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

It won't be done for a few hour/days, because the tech support people are transporting all the articles from here to there, and, though they didn't give me a very good timeframe, I'm told it will take less than three weeks.

I hope I'll see you there soon, Red.

Vixi Perpetuo,

Jazon Naparleon 15:50, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Excellent question, Red! You see, transfer is not the word I would use, it is more of a copy/paste from wiki A to wiki B, so to say. It is taking longer than I hoped, seeing as how we've got close to 12,000 articles on here, needless to say, once we get all settled in, there will be a lot of trimming to do! Also, seeing as how it is happening 'under the table' as it were, less than a donzen people know about, and therefore, most of the community will not be moving either. That's not to say we couldn't get a significant portion to join us eventually (Wikia is going to change the skin mandatorily again in two years.)

And yes, a petition was one of the Five Unthinkable options I presented to the rebellion, but a bystander who was already on the AWA noticed this, and informed me that petitions do not work, as many have been tried before, and none have succeeded.

The Meta hasn't got us yet, keep on chugging!

Jazon Naparleon 15:11, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Stirling Awards
I finally created the prototype page for the Stirling Awards: Alternative History:2011 Stirling Awards. Since you were the first one to suggest the idea, I figured I should contact you directly about it. Please check it out. Also if you have any ideas for the award template itself, please send them to me. Mitro 03:34, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Feel free to edit the page I already created. It should be easy to make any changes that way. Mitro 14:41, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I generally liked the changes you made, but I removed the Realism and Satirical awards. I think for our first experiement with this we should just judge TL on a general scale. We can try expanded categories later. Anyway, if you are ok with my changes I will make the wiki wide announcement that nominations are now open. Mitro 21:55, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I only intended for the lifetime awards to be a one time thing. Anyway, I will go ahead and make the announcement. Mitro 23:06, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

You.....
FINISHED THE INCA PAGE?

And, you added an Ottoman and Danish page?!

HOORAY! I shall help you on working on those pages!

Thank you!

rcox1995 Rcox1995 01:10, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

hahaha I did indeed. I even added a flag with those pages as well :D What do you think? Red VS Blue 01:49, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

My first reaction was: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY. I love them, by the way. And, the flags are very suited. Especially the Inca, I love that one.

Rcox1995 01:53, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well that's exactly! the reaction I was looking for lol So, right now for the Ottoman page I need to work on the kind of government structure they have. So far I've narrowed to an "Islamic Monarchy", albeit one where the king has nearly absolute power. Similar to the level of the Russian Tsars after the 1905 Revolution. If not a bit more power.

I figure a little more research may be needed before I can write anything up. Red VS Blue 02:12, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Good, lol.

Hm....Interesting. I like the concept, but since the Ottomans did invade the country long ago, maybe the people would not have supported them in an absolute manner. Perhaps have a parliament, but even a weak one at that? Rcox1995 12:12, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well I expect that by this time the Ottomans have full support of the Arab populace. Foreigners even refer to the country as Arabic rather than Turkish. Its just most of the aristocracy is Turkish. Anyway, I've already established the Ottoman parliament to be the Majlis al-Shura, an Islamic ruling council. I need to get a basic understanding of Sharia (Islamic Law) before I can design the parliament. Furthermore, I need to ensure that it has a historical progression. In other words it would have to have evolved from previous political systems, I can't just design it from the top down.

Hmmm, this is gonna be difficult. Red VS Blue 23:06, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Understandable. Well, Sharia can be rather varied, depending on which kind you use. I would think that since the Caliphate is Shi'ite, then it would be a bit different. Perhaps that when the Turks first invaded, they ruled with near absolute power, and as time progressed, it became slightly more balanced in a democratic sort of way? Islamic law can also be very strict and what not (Note: I'm not a Muslim, but I do have a rather broad understanding of Islam and what not.

Rcox1995 00:47, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I've left the addition of info on Sharia for later, but I've used my modest understanding of Islam to write what I can. Looking at historical parliaments, particularly ultra-conservative ones like the Caliphate would have, I decided upon an aristocratic parliament ruled by the Turks. I believe that the legal and political system of the Caliphate would be very far removed from Western and Eastern ones. Let me know what you think. Red VS Blue 02:25, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I did look at it, and I like how the government system is. It's an absolute monarch of sorts, but he can't pass or start the passing of laws, which I rather like. Indeed, that they would be. But, still, I liked how you made it. I also managed to see the Flags page, and I think that that page is a good one, too! Rcox1995 12:18, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Perfect! What I've written makes sense then?

Hmmm, I've just realized that the Persians aren't involved in this country yet. I'm gonna have to fix that... Red VS Blue 02:06, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, indeed. It works out fine. Ah, yes. I overlooked that, too, sorry. Rcox1995 02:09, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

haha Don't worry about it man, I'm just putting my thoughts on here not to forget. I'm gonna be a bit busy this next week but if you have any ideas or comments just let me know as I'll be steadily adding to these new pages when I can. Red VS Blue 02:27, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Understandable, I shall do the best I can to improve these new pages. Rcox1995 21:49, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Your Username
Is your username referring to the video series Red VS Blue? I donno, I was just kinda curious. Arstar 06:02, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. No other series has ever made me laugh for as long as that one. It's comedic genius if you ask me. Red VS Blue 23:57, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

The book.....
It is excellent. I read the first chapter, and I enjoyed it very much. I look forward to much more.

Rcox1995 00:24, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. It's my first attempt at writing something like this so I wasn't sure how it would be received. I tell you, its a lot harder than regular articles. Red VS Blue 18:30, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I bet that it was. I would never be able to do anything like that. But, it honestly was great.

Rcox1995 23:18, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Flags in your timeline
Hello, I was browsing this wikia (such a strange and interesting wikia) when I came opon Superpowers. It is a very interesting story. However, there is one particularly interesting thing. Your flags. I myself am very interested in flags. If your taking input from others, then I have some flag ideas for the remaining three nations. Colombia, Zulu, and Khmer.

First off, Colombia. At first when I saw this nation, I was a bit weirded out. I couldn't figure out what culture or nationality it was. But after reading your culture page, I figured out it was a lakotah nation. Am I right? I'm still a little confused about this nation. One flag symbolism that you might want to add, is the Lakotah Star. You might also want to include the 4 sided wheel.

Sadly, I just discovered that you must have an account to insert pictures.

But if you google 'Lakotah Symbols' and 'Lakotah Flag' you'll see what I'm talking about.

For the Zulus, I would say a flag with some resemblance to the flag of KwaZulu, but with lots of Yellow (symbol of the Zulus) and black (symbol of the people of Africa). If in your timelien they had a bloody revolution, then you might add red for the revolution.

For the Khmer, try a detailed picture of Ankor Wat on a backgroudn that is all one color.

thank you for your time, sir

208.191.38.150 02:37, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Greetings, friend.

I like how interested you are in flags and from what you've said, I am quite impressed at your knowledge of them. Taking your advice, I have designed a flag incorporating the Lakotah symbol but have also added aspects of the Iroquois flag. I've done a satisfactory job on it at best. If you still visit this wikia I would very much appreciate your thoughts on it.

Your ideas for the other remaining flag are also things I had never even considered before now. For the design of the Khmer flag might I assume you are thinking of something similar to that of Cambodia? In any case, the image would fit very well with my own idea of displaying the Balinese script for Aum.

Thank you, sir, for your interest in Superpowers. If you don't mind me asking; you wouldn't by any chance be thinking about joining the wikia by getting an account, would you? Though if you don't return, I still want to say, thank you for your helpful suggestions.

Red VS Blue 04:36, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I have decided to create an account here. Named (ever so elequently) Flagmania.

On your Colombia (or is that spelled Columbia? I think it is the later)

It is very interesting that you've chosen the belt of hiawatha for the corners of the flag. It makes the flag look very lovely, and simply complex. What an oxymoron. However, the Belt of Hiawatha is a symbol unique to the iroquois (as you pointed out). The five parts of the belt (there is a fifth one which is the tree in the middle) represent the five originol nations of the Haudenosaunee League.

So to sum up and add to what I just said,

1) The flag looks very beutiful like that

2) But unless in your timeline the number 8 has a specific meaning the Columbians of your timeline, i'd advise not doing it.

Other symbols that could possibly suffise,

the Bear Claw (symbol of strength)

the 4 sided wheel I mentioned earlier also called the medicine wheel

I got some basic inspiration on design from the flag of Vietnam (yellow for the Khmer, blue for honor) and added the words 'Free Khmer Imperial Order' at the bottom.(using a translator of course).

Do you like it? I know its probably not a finished flag (unless simply put, I think simple would be good in this place). On another note, the Danes aren't Christian? Are they Atheist? Or Norse Pagan? I guess there really isn't a lot of info on the Danes (especially in their actual article). I don't think they get much of a mention in the culture page either. Are the Khmer Buddhist? If so, a Buddhist symbol on their flag might be an idea.

http://www.roangelo.net/valente/terrarum.html This is a link that claims that the Romans placed East on the top of their maps.

until next time, --Flagmania 02:12, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

That flag design is brilliant! I love flags with foreign writing on them, it's why I love my Ottoman Flag so much. The writing is also very clear and the reasoning behind the colors is very strong. As the Khmer are Hindu, I think it only needs the addition of the Balinese word for Om (sadly I cannot find the Khmer translation) inside the star, which itself needs to be made a little less "fuzzy". Overall, the design would be quite simple but, as you said, with flags that is often a good thing.

You see, Nordic culture and history are fields I'm not especially well acquainted with, so I've stayed back from doing too much work on something I don't fully understand. I've got a few things figured out though. They could not be Christian, as I think it would be very difficult for another country to be Christian when the Romans themselves are (though there is one exception.) I think strong patriotic feelings for their traditional culture would make many Danes follow Norse Paganism. However, Platonist (basically socialist) rationalism would make about half the population atheist.

Going back to the Khmer flag, I especially like how the design you made is not only unique within the contexts of Superpowers, but a similarity in style to the Mongol flag is also present, in my eyes anyway. Great job, Flagman! (Anything else I can call you?)

Red VS Blue 02:33, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Well, ok, here is version 2 of the flag. A tiny band of nearly invisible red making the star less fuzzy. Also, at the top the Hindu Word for Om. And the bottom words I made slightly bigger. So here it is,

As for the name, you can call me Flagman or Mania. One thing I would expect in a modern Nordic Society, would be a sort of combination. For instance, some people would worship the Norse Gods, but would follow the tenants of Socialism.

And speaking of the Ottoman Flag, I have some things to guess about it. 1) Green for Islam, right? 2) Aren't the words 'Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar' or with English Translation, 'God is Great!God is Great!' ? 3)But I have some things to say about the star and crescent.

The Star and Crescent were long the symbols of Byzantium (later Constantinople). When the Ottomans finally captured Constantinople in the 15th Century, then they took the title 'Caesar of Rome' and they took the Star and Crescent and made it a symbol of Islam.

But Don't Change your Flag

The Flag is very good looking, and that's just one theory. Another theory is that somewhere in the Quran it says 'God is a Crescent Moon, and his prophet a Star'

--Flagmania 14:21, January 8, 2011 (UTC) Interesting, I hope you don't mind if I put forward a little criticism (constructively of course.) I think that the writing looked better small and the Omkara I was thinking to go in the star is this one >. With those changes though, this flag needs nothing more. You've done a very good job Flagman, now I just have a few more flags to go for Superpowers.

As for your questions. You are right about the Nords, many people in their society are socialist and Norse Pagan, though socialist ideas have still led many towards atheism. Like any society the combination of beliefs among individuals is incredibly varied. It is actually one of the things that makes it fun to think up a fictional society.

You're spot on about the Ottoman flag, at least for your first two points but I did quite a bit of research before making it and I'm convinced that the star and crescent didn't come from the Byzantines. It was an ancient Persian symbol that even in reality was adopted by the Arabs well before their conquest of Constantinople. Since Persian is one of the main ethnic groups of the Caliphate, the star and crescent is a representation of them, as well as just a general symbol in use by the state. The theory you mention could also be a possible origin. Nevertheless, I may very well be wrong as historical research is never really conclusive so we'll probably never know. Either way, its still one of my favorite looking flags hahaha Red VS Blue 16:12, January 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_and_crescent Lordganon 17:15, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Lord Ganon,for giving us that link. Here is another link, (to this actual website) where two alternate historians are disguising a flag made for the Byzintines. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/File_talk:Flag_Byzantia_%28VegWorld%29.jpg

Here is another try for a Khmer Flag, Not only is the phrase slightly shortened, the size of the letters is smaller. The Omkara you gave me is now placed in the center of the flag.

Tell me what you think of it =) --Flagmania 18:17, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

haha Thanks LG, that page actually has the picture of a Muslim army with the star and crescent that was what a month ago convinced me that Muslims used it before the Byzantines. Mania, your flag is perfect now! But before I make a Khmer article to add it to, the dimensions for the flag need to be made the same as my other flags, so I'll just change that and reupload it.

In the mean time, here's my latest design for the Columbian Flag. I've incorporated 61 into the design, but its not in an exactly smooth manner. The 4 squares in the Hiawatha Belt represent the 16 great Iroquois tribes that joined the Chiefdom; the 8 tents, each divided in two, represent the 16 great Sioux tribes that joined; the 6 birds (every attempt to change them into ravens didn't look good) represent the 6 great Mississipian cities and the 23 bars represent the 23 Apache and Navajo tribes that joined the Chiefdom as well. These numbers were arbitrarily chosen but there's hardly enough information on the Native Americans a thousand years ago.

Anyway, what do you think of it? Is there too much? Red VS Blue 01:16, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

I am quite impressed with how it looks, except for the ravens. Maybe for the sake of color, making them white? Or replacing them with bear claws?

Other than that it is quite a fantastic flag! I am impressed that they forgot none when making their flag. But one thing- the Apache were part of the Great Chiefdom?!?!? Even the original chiefdom doesn't go that far south (according to your maps). Did the Mayans force them north or something?

Personally, the flag seems very spiritualistic (which is good) and very complex (also good). I can try to re size the Khmer flag if you haven't already done that. --Flagmania 20:19, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Or you could try turning the 23 bars into a border around the flag. (just another idea) --Flagmania 20:20, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

I attempted that but they're not solid black, so with a Paint program there's no way to satisfactorily change them to white nor make a good bear claw. Besides, black is a distinctly Raven color. If you know a way to make them white I'd be very grateful.

The Mayans most certainly did force them northward, I believe I mention the Apache in the detailed timeline for Superpowers. Its a shame to think about (even if its fiction), the entire original homelands of the first great Native Columbian tribes have been taken by foreign powers. Just like real life I suppose.

A border, eh? I could try that out. Though the three in the middle actually represent that 4-sided wheel you told me about. I assumed those colors were traditional for the design so I've placed them in a way that has East at the top. There's none at the bottom because West is red and the flag background is already red. Other ways to integrate the 4-sided wheel simply looked ridiculous, I'm sorry to say. Anyways, if you think it looks fitting for the Columbians then unless with the border it looks better, this will be the final design.

As for the Khmer flag, if you can readjust the height:length ratio for me I'd very much appreciate that. If not, don't worry about it. I'll find the time, within what I spend on this site, in between writing my "novel" here and fixing other articles. Red VS Blue 22:27, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

I think the way you put the wheel in was fantastic! Ok, I will try to take the Ottoman Flag, then put to Khmer flag over it so that it is the same size. I will try the border on the Colombian flag too, and some tome tonight I'll get those to you.

You're writing a novel?!?! Like the one you mentioned in the 100th Article?

If you made an actual Superpowers book, I would buy it! --Flagmania 01:50, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Here's my first attempt at shrinking it. Personally, I think it didn't work and that I'll have to remake it at this new size. --Flagmania 01:54, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

To put it lightly, yes. It didn't shrink very nicely. Don't worry about it. I have an idea of how to do it. In fact, here it is, my friend. It was a rather tedious process, but I believe the final result is worth it. I thank you if you would still do the border of the Columbian flag.

Anyway, I have indeed started writing a novel. However, I don't yet think its worth the financial risk of putting it into print. Instead, it is being posted here, on this very wikia, chapter by chapter, as I write it. You can see the 1st chapter here. I confess that it's my first attempt at writing in the novel format, so my style of writing hasn't really developed yet. Hopefully it will get better as the novel progresses.

Red VS Blue 02:40, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. I have had pressing issues to deal with in the real world, unfortunately. Thank you for shrinking it. I started to read some of the Setting Sun, and it interested me greatly. Keep up the amazing work on Superpowers!!! --Flagmania 23:37, January 12, 2011 (UTC)

I understand, Flagman. Things outside of here should always take precedence, no doubt about it. I sincerely hope you can get through the issues you're dealing with. Good luck, man. Red VS Blue 02:56, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Communist World
i seen your weapon,energy and space timelines, which are really great and i wonder if u could help me on technology of my TL

please,Alterman09 23:20, Januray 3,2011(UTC)

Of course, I'm more than happy to help other people out. What did you have in mind? Red VS Blue 04:36, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks...well I created an new energy source called Teletric, which is an source base on Tesla work and invention that tranfer eletricity wirelessly to other systems around the world and I wonder if its a good idea.Alterman09 16:48, Januray 5,2011

Wireless power transmission is possible in reality actually, I have a buddy that has speakers plugged in wirelessly. I don't understand how the wireless transfer of electricity is a power source though. Might you elaborate? Red VS Blue 02:06, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well,I meant that Teletric an alternative resource similar to solar power and wind turbine .It tranfer electricity throw Tesla Wardenclyffe towers to other systems(cars,tv,building,.etc) connected to the World Wireless System. Alterman09 21:05, January 9,2011 (UTC)

Talk more...

TSPTF membership
I really appreciate the work you have done for the Stirling Awards. Though the TSPTF does not have any open positions for Lts at the moment, would you be interested in becoming a Constable? Mitro 16:22, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is quite simple. First, someone has to go to Alternative History:Request for user rights and nominate you to be a constable. Second, you have to go there and accept your nomination, which you should do soon. One of the requirements of a Constable is to fight vandalism, so you have to show a willingness to fight the good fight when you write your acceptance. When that is done you need to get voted in after two weeks. Mitro 14:08, January 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Red, for your nomination to Constable to be valid you need to accept the nomination on the Request for user rights page. Don't forget to do that before the 21st or else I cannot promote you to Constable. Mitro 17:27, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Hello Again
Sorry, one of the issues I was dealing with was the snow. Two days ago, the internet went out (strangely the electricity came on before the internet did). Its been freezing here. As a Canadian I'm sure you understand.

But when the internet was out, I did not put my computer to waiste, oh no!!!

I was inspired by you and that Aeab guy or whatever to write a timeline of my own. I was wondering if you might like to take a look at it once I upload it from Microsoft Word. I would be sincerly grateful.

Here it is, The Ancient and the New

On the note of the flags, I'm pleased that you like the Khmer flag. The Lakotah flag is very nice looking as it is, and the things I mentioned before don't necissarily have to go onto it.

Thanks Red

-Flagman

hahaha You'd be right about that. The snow here is brutal, it's so difficult to get around. Luckily Canadian things are almost all designed to function with a LOT of snow, so I've never experienced a power outage or internet shortage because of it.

Wow, you're image for Egypt versus Rome is beautiful! How did you make that Eagle? Could I recruit your skill at photoshop for things other than flags? I am most impressed.

The story is also pretty creative, aside from the premise borrowed from Aetas ab Brian. This is the first alternate history that I've seen where Rome only rises so many centuries later than it historically did. Though you may not want to say it was united by Julius Caesar, because if your POD in 2012 BC was enough to prevent Rome from forming, it is definitely enough to prevent anyone alive in the 1st century BC in OTL from being there. It's just a thought for authenticity though, something which as always is up to the author.

Now the map. Ah, the map. That's another great example of photoshop, you and Teakay (the author of Aetas) are the best mapmakers I've met on this wiki. I've got to say, the way you illustrate the different factions is amazing. You know, I have another timeline, which I've let sit for while, and since it has many times more countries than Superpower, I've had difficulty making any maps for it. Would you be willing to help me with that?

In exchange, I'd be more than happy to help you with the Latin in your timeline. I can already see a few minor errors, such as the PUN, which translates to Success Community Standard. It might be better as Societas Auctus Mundi (can be loosely translated as Organization for World Prosperity, though it is literally Society for the Prosperity of the World). Meanwhile, the other faction currently translates as Africa Council. Did you want that or African Council/Council of Africa?

Great job so far on the timeline as a whole.

Red VS Blue 17:09, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

Thankso much!!!

Wow. I had no idea the latin translator I was using was so terrible. SAM would probably be much better than PUN. The Other faction I did mean to be called the African Council (A slight idea that I got from another continent and another timeline)

As for Julius Caesar, I should have thought of that. Due to Persia's vastly greater power than in OTL, I think Rome's birth would be delayed, but Julius Caesar probably would (at the very least) have a different name. I think I'll create a fictisious person of AEgyptian or Greek (Helian) descent.

I'd be more than happy to help you with any flags or maps!

Is that other timeline the Fidei Defensor thing? I haven't really looked at it all and I don't know what the POD. I'll take a look at it.

As for the beutiful Cold War logo, I'm glad to hear what you thought of it. The Eye of Horus is an ancient Egyptian symbol that I found an image of here

and modified for the Egyptian Flag and for the Cold War panel. The Roman Eagle is actually a sort of abstract space-ship that I cut parts out of (since the head already kinda looked like an eagle). The same Eagle is on the Roman Flag.

Flagman,Flagmania 17:56, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

Oh that's true, I didn't even realize that the other term's abbreviation was SAM haha That's pretty lucky. One of the abbreviations in my Superpowers timeline turned out to be CUP, which I have consistently tried to avoid using.

Well you don't need to completely get rid of Julius Caesar. The Julii, his clan and the origin of his name, were a prominent Roman family even in the time of early Rome, coming from the nearby city of Alba Longa. So if Roman naming conventions still develop the same way, there could be a Julius ______, whatever his last name may be. He might be the patriarch of the Julii clan, so the early Roman Emperors of your timeline would be of the Julian Dynasty, much like those of OTL. It'd be an interesting parallel anyways. An Ægyptian and Greek man would also be possible, foreign people in history have often come to rule a local government, as with the Greeks and Persia and Egypt OTL. An illustrious pedigree from Greece and Ægyptus would definitely allow someone to take control of disorganized tribes in Italy, under the right circumstances.

Yes, the other timeline is Fidei Defensor. I haven't worked on it much because it's a project in realism. To write on it I need to keep in mind as many divergences from OTL as I can and then modify OTL event as such, whilst also adding logical consequences of divergent events. It takes a bit of concentration on my part, so I need to wait till I have a lot of free time to work on it. A great way for me to start working on it again is making a map, which we can work together on.

The great thing about the logo you made is that even without the names written beneath the symbols, its recognizable, regardless of the time period, who the factions are. Rome is widely recognized for the aquila, its eagle symbols and the Eye of Horus is a uniquely Egyptian symbol. Great job!

As I expected, the rest of the flags in your timeline are superb. The only issues I have is that in some of them, like the Parsan and Haboso flag, things could be centered a little more. Still, they all have great symbolism. And each one is very unique in its own ways, even when compared to all the flags that exist in OTL. Another great job!

Red VS Blue 18:38, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

I will happily start reading Fidei Defensor. One question though, how do you think the modern world of Fidei Defensor will be radicaly different than the OTL world? Apart from things like a less promenient France, it doesn't seem like there is much that's radically different than OTL. I would love to work on a map with you though!

The Flag of Haboso is purposely not centered, but Persia was a mistake.

I'm going to make a map of the Persian Empire at its height and then add it to the timeline's page. I'm think of taking a name from Egyptian (Memaphet) and Latinizing it.

Memaphetsius

Memaphatus

Memaphat

Memopat

Something like that, but with Julius in front of it.

Flagmania 00:42, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations
Congratulations, you are now a Constable in the TSPTF. This allows you to showcase the TSPTF membership badge on your user page. Furthermore it gives you the rollback power on this wiki. In the History page of an article you will notice a new option called "rollback". This is an anti-vandalism tool. It allows you to quickly undo edits in case someone has made more than one edit to a page. By clicking rollback it will immediately revert the article to a time before the offending editor edited the page. This is your most important duty. By agreeing to be a constable, you are promising to do your best to patrol for vandals and trolls.

When you get the chance, please go to the TSPTF page, and sign up for some responsibilities. In reality, none of us have the time to devote to all of the duties that are expected of an administrator of the wiki. You are expected, however, to sign up for at least three responsibilities listed in that section. These are duties that you are agreeing to carry out to the best of your ability every time you are on this wiki. I'm hoping that by doing this the members of the TSPTF can efficiently share the work load of the wiki and gives us time for the real reason we are here. Since you are only a constable and do not have the power to delete or block, do not feel obligated to sign up for any duties you do not have the powers to do.

Again, congratulations on being elected to the TSPTF and good luck. Mitro 15:19, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Opinion?
Hello again. I have been thinking of making a new timeline. Basically, it is this. Persia conquers Greece, and the idea of democracy dies. Persian expands and expands, and becomes a true world power. Then, Greek descendants colonize Italy, and meets the presently growing Roman culture. The idea of democracy is introduced, and the Roman Republic emerges. It expands to contain Western Europe, but nothing more. Also, China becomes a world power, but I have yet to decide how that would occur. If you could please give an opinion, I would most appreciate it.

Thank you,

Rcox1995 21:58, January 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Cutting in here - it is a common misconception that democracy originated in Greece. It in fact originated in ancient Sumer, 3,000 years prior. Democracy as an idea can't die if it had been around that long before. Lordganon 02:42, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * That is a good point LG, but Western democracy originated in Greece - I'm almost certain - completely independently of democracy in the Fertile Crescent.
 * You're idea Rcox is also realistic as democracy would likely arise elsewhere anyways, especially if people talking about it brought word of it with them. Keep in mind though, the Roman Republic expanded very slowly, so it wouldn't expand into Western Europe for a while, probably not until the the 1st century AD. Depending on how corrupt it is.
 * As for China, there are several ways in which it could become a world power. If Qin Shi Huang for instance had a change of heart, then perhaps he wouldn't oppress his people as much and his dynasty could really come to last a 1,000 generations (as he claimed it would). Otherwise, it could become a world power during the Tang Dynasty, which a high point in Chinese civilization.
 * As for China, there are several ways in which it could become a world power. If Qin Shi Huang for instance had a change of heart, then perhaps he wouldn't oppress his people as much and his dynasty could really come to last a 1,000 generations (as he claimed it would). Otherwise, it could become a world power during the Tang Dynasty, which a high point in Chinese civilization.
 * As for China, there are several ways in which it could become a world power. If Qin Shi Huang for instance had a change of heart, then perhaps he wouldn't oppress his people as much and his dynasty could really come to last a 1,000 generations (as he claimed it would). Otherwise, it could become a world power during the Tang Dynasty, which a high point in Chinese civilization.

Red VS Blue 00:35, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I was pretty sure of that fact myself about democracy in Greece. Ah, true. Though, keep in mind that they would not be able to expand eastward much due to the massive Persian Empire in the way, so it would have to go west to gain fertile land. Instead of conquering the Mediterrenaean basin, they would conquer Western Europe, though not at a tremendous pace like you said. The Punic Wars would of course still occur.

And, yes, I was considering Tang China, but that particular POD was already used by Easternized World to an extend, and I don't want to necessarily steal the idea. But, the idea of Qin Shi Huang is a good one.....Hm. Thank you.

Rcox1995 03:05, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Where do you expect Persian land in Europe to extend up to? The Dalmatian coast and Dacia perhaps? Or just Greece and Thrace? Also, under which ruler does Persia expand? Cyrus the Great ruled before democracy came to Rome and his conquest of Ionia in 547 BC is a logical time for him to change his mind and continue conquering the Greeks. To maintain his rule there, Cyrus would need to take greater interest in Greece, which he would if the Persians owned more Greek territory. Therefore, he might have come up with a more adequate ruling system than the tyrannic one he set up in Ionia in OTL. I'm just throwing ideas at you, so you can decide for yourself what you think makes sense and what does not.

Do you need help with anything else? Red VS Blue 14:53, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking about having the Persians extend to Dalmatia and Dacia, yes. Well, I would like to say Cyrus the Great as well. I understand what you are trying to say, though. I would think that Cyrus the Great would take more interest and fully conquer Greece, and then steadily go up from there. Over time, they would even go into Egypt, and eventually, into Arabia. Maybe, I don't know. As far as I'm aware of, none yet. I need to make a page for it soon.

Thanks,

Rcox1995 01:45, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

2011 Stirling Award
Yeah, I'll try to remember to edit that tonight. I thought it was the 2010 awards since it is celebrating the best of 2010.Oerwinde 19:16, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

I would think so too, but the article is called 2011 Stirling Awards, so that is what I've been following. Sorry about the inconvenience. Red VS Blue 19:22, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that is confusing isn't it. Maybe we should change it to the 1st annual Stirling Awards on the article and use the year 2010 on the award?
 * Also Red, if you don't want to have to post the award on the Spanish alternate history wiki, I would just present the award to Katholico since I believe he is an admin over there. Mitro 19:54, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well "2011 Stirling Award for Best such-n-such of 2010" does have nice ring to it, even if it doesn't seem to logically make sense. Also it has been called 2011 Stirling Awards in a lot of different places and I think that one change to a picture is easier than several dozen changes. I can bear the (ever so minor) consequences for making the call to keep it as "2011" so that it's no skin off your nose, Mitro. Though in subsequent awards we may want to use 2nd, 3rd.... instead. Red VS Blue 21:12, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well "2011 Stirling Award for Best such-n-such of 2010" does have nice ring to it, even if it doesn't seem to logically make sense. Also it has been called 2011 Stirling Awards in a lot of different places and I think that one change to a picture is easier than several dozen changes. I can bear the (ever so minor) consequences for making the call to keep it as "2011" so that it's no skin off your nose, Mitro. Though in subsequent awards we may want to use 2nd, 3rd.... instead. Red VS Blue 21:12, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I am very proud that the historia alternativa wikia has gained this award. I expect to place soon the prize in someplace of the wikia, the page front is a good option. By the way, effectly, since some time ago, i am administrator of the Wiki :) Regards!!! --Katholico 22:29, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Underwater Cities in Superpowers AltHistory
I enjoyed reading ALT of Superpower, but I would of thought there would be a Undersea race and exploration or exploitation, that would come first before Space Exploration. Especially with the Greek, Norse and Japanese influance and with some nations having problems overpopulation this would be area to expand. Where did the Inca build and stored the Sub fleet? If Kor'na Yasse was so big, how deep was it? And was it the first step to have a underwater base? Also, what is Geopolitics of the Pacific, witch Superpower owns what and when and how long? Sorry, I wish that there was a SeaQuest version ALT or influsnce. And if these should be a Blog Question I apologies for entering it here. Just a fan and it is the first time I did these.Peacedarer 15:53, February 22, 2011 (UTC)Peacedarer

Thank you for showing an interest in my ATL, I always like hearing from fans and I'm more than happy to answer your questions.

Well undersea exploration technology actually advanced at much slower pace in this ATL than others because the Romans and Mayans, two of the largest civilizations, were a primarily land-based people and held stigmas towards the water. So submarines weren't even invented until a little before rockets. Even then the space race completely overshadowed many other scientific endeavors so it would be unlikely for a race to the ocean floor to have occured. Though I haven't mentioned it, there is a likelihood that some scientists, probably Japanese, would have done some exploration of the ocean floor. Perhaps they'd map parts of the Marianas Trench, I haven't given much thought to the idea in any case. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, sir.

As for exploitation of the sea, the Japanese build a lot of artificial land that extends into the water around their cities, for the reason of, as you mentioned, overpopulation. Huge artificial islands have even been built in the middle of the ocean, serving as surveillance platforms or floating harbors. Furthermore, the Japanese heavily exploit the sea for a process called aquaculture, where they farm fish as many people do cattle.

The Kor'na Yasse is an interesting aspect of the timeline, since its original structure was not anymore advanced than current (OTL) technology but was the product of vast industrial power. It doesn't extend very deep. I'd have to calculate the potential depth, but it can't be any more than a kilometer. It is held up by its own buoyancy, which is supplement by a vast network of underwater gas tanks. It was kept in position by large outboard motors. The modern structure has a safer system of gas tanks and is stabilized by powerful jets.

Now, as for the geopolitics of the Pacific, you can see who owns what by looking at the main page. In general, the smaller islands that you can't see are owned by the Mayan Conglomerate if east of papua new guinea and the Khmer (Cambodians) if west of papua new guinea. Indonesia itself is owned by the Khmer, Australia by the Romans and Japan by...well the Japanese.

Lastly, if you don't mind, could you elaborate on what you mean by "SeaQuest"? Red VS Blue 02:10, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

By means of SeaQuest, that there would be large underwater cities/colonies across the ocean floor and I know that there is a "technically a underwater city in Jappan", they where converting an old oil platform as a City/Hotel that was able to completely submerge under the water, for inclement weather. Plus, it would be a excellent location to test hostel enviroment habitate that can test on Earth before going to the Moon, Mars, and the rest of the Sol System. With Japan and Inca, they would be the main advancers of underwater exploration, tranportation, and technology. And maybe the Incas have secert underwater bases. I forgot about the Norse and Greeks, do they have a problem in there cultural history of going underwater? Plus, do you know of a ATL with underwater city and colonies? Peacedarer 18:57, February 23, 2011 (UTC)Peacedarer

I see the potential for underwater cities built as a means to an end, namely that of preparing for harsher environments as you said. It is also logical that the Inca have underwater bases, able to dock with submersibles and perform reconaissance on their own. I have to give more thought as to who else is involved with underwater bases, so the verdict is still out on whether the Norse would have built any.

I did a brief search and, as far as I can tell, there aren't any ATLs with underwater cities or colonies. In itself its a pretty unique thought for a timeline, so its not very likely that someone would have thought of it already. Perhaps you could write one? Red VS Blue 02:26, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the vote of confident, I am still learning how to write one up. Another quesion altogether, do you know where I can find the flag of the 1st Volunteer Calvary Regiment (The Rough Rider), I only know it has a yellow feild, and that it. Any info would help, and I live in San Antonio, Tejas; the birthplace of the Rough Riders, where Teddy Roosevelt sign them up at the Menger (pronouse Mingger) Hotel next to The Alamo, at the Menger Bar. So any help with any contact will help.Peacedarer 16:07, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

Well, if you ever need help on this wiki, whether for writing, critique, information, or what-not, I'd be happy to provide it.

As for the flag, I have no knowledge of how reliable a source this > http://www.flagguys.com/roughriders.html is, but the image it gives as the Rough Riders' flag matches those from other sources, so it is probably legit. Red VS Blue 21:14, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

The shield on the Eagle was the same that i've seen on there one year anniversary medallion and posters of the event so it may be true. Thank you very much.Peacedarer 18:52, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hey RedvsBlue, please check out my first Wiki page Uncle Nat's Enlighten Friends and give me an oppenion about it. Peacedarer 14:34, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Categorizing Images
Nice to see someone else doing it for a change, besides me, lol. But, you need to think a little less about putting them in timeline categories. Flags, Maps, Edited Images, etc. if used would go in them, otherwise the generic category is where they go. Images like the military ones you put in the "Live History" category would actually go into the "Military category. You just gotta think: is there something like "Animals" "Transportation" or something else that springs into mind when you see it? Then see if there is a category for it - you may be surprised at some of the ones that have been made and are filling with pics, lol. Plants are "Nature" btw. Normally they would go into "Images" if nothing really pops up. Anything that obviously goes with a certain timeline but not much else goes into that TL's category, or course.

Just as a FYI of how it's organized.

Lordganon 04:51, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of those general categories. Thank you very much, it certainly saves a bit of effort. Do you mind if I make some improvements to the filing system? It appears somewhat ramshackle on first glance and there is room for reorganization, that is certain.

Red VS Blue 02:03, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Power to you. I've been working on it, but can only do so much on my own, lol. Lordganon 12:13, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Templates
Hi again Red. It's me, Flagman. Sorry I've been gone for so long. I've been getting some great new inspirations for timelines from books that I've read. I recently read 'The Man in the High Castle' and 'Nineteen Eighty Four' and both books greatly moved me.

Both are about evil superpowers that came to rule through revolution. The only things standing in their way of world domination are other evil superpowers.



I tried deciding which evil superpowers from my imagination I should use, but I came up with too many good ideas. So, i decided that I would make a blog, with a voting template.

But......

I don't really know how to use the templates on this website....could you help me?

By the way, you've really improved the world of superpowers (I espicially like the Ottoman Empire page).

Keep up the amazing work! You've really shown dedication to that timeline (whereas I can't even stick with something like the ancient and the new.).

Flagmania 17:03, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hey Flagman,

I completely understand the need to be away from here for a while; all things in moderation. I've even been gone a while nurturing my interest in Aristotle, though unlike your reading it's doubtful that it could inspire me for my alternate histories.

Anyways, I'm not an expert on wiki mechanics but I believe that the item below can be used for a voting template. It's what the admins use to create their polls. View it in "Source" writing to alter the variables, like the available options and the question.

Which evil superpower would be the best subject for an althistory?

Oceania

Third Reich

Soviet Russia

Have I made any real changes to Superpower? It doesn't feel like it haha

Thank you, Flagman. I wouldn't attribute my dedication to anything other than the fact that I'm really interested in the subject area. When I'm working on something interesting I have so much fun I just keep coming back for more. I'd bet my bottom dollar that you'll do the same once you find that one subject.

So what's this idea for a timeline you're working with now?

Red VS Blue 00:49, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

extreme apologies
I am a new user and wanted to ask questions but seems I am unable to figure out how to leave a message in the post here anyway from I was able to figure out this was the method, if I was incorrect I apologize humbly.

I came across this althistory site by accident and your superpowers timeline was the first I encountered, and I am completely fascinated, your solution to the Roman decline by achieving the conquest of Germania and the construction of actual geographical borders is nothing short of inspired and brilliant.

your work and development are superb. But I have come across several questions and if you could clarify for me I would be grateful, I will try to keep it within the 1000 years that you have more developed in your timeline.

first question

why do you start the industrial revolution a full 7 centuries after the divergence?

I do understand that you went through the fact that they went the electric way, but if I recall correctly the industrial revolution was started by watermills, and at that time period romans had plenty watermills.

second question

it is really attached to the first one really but why almost 400 years before they figure out how to generate electricity other than lighning and chemicals?

third question

why the acceptance of christianity as an official religion? it seems to me a little farfetched but maybe you see a reason I am missing. I do think it is fascinating, you do make it clear that is nothing like our christianity. and most likely slants more heavily to another direction and also I noticed that religious tolerance went much further along in your timeline.

fourth question

this is kind of a general question about the technological development at superpowers, the timeline seems to have technological developments more as a part of active research than circumstance, and if that is true then the timeline seems to take too long to continue developing technology, specially if you add a 200 year war with what in essence are industrialized powers. In particular an empire as wealthy and with such high regard to the scientific approach to development that war would have been a pressure cooker of development, in those two centuries should have created enormous advancement specially in a nation that is so far flung as the roman empire.

fifth question

I just wanted to ask the first roman ironclads were iron clad, or as seems to be suggested in an article floating around (I do not recall where exactly) titanium clad.

sixth question

really the next to last question why such a high level of specialization in the distinct superpowers in that in some areas (until the OTL 20th century) lag far to much in some areas, like for example the Romans until the 18th century the romans have no real germ theory or science while at the same time they are one of the most advanced industrialized nations at the time, and are at the verge of becoming modern. yet they have a pretty clear understanding of hygiene. to me it seems inconsistent. but maybe you have a good reason as part of the timeline philosophical development.

my final question

it kind of ties back to everything else. at the modern age you accelerate development extremely, but inconsistently I mean in essence in the 10th century ad the romans are essentially ahead a full millenium but at the 20th century they are merely ahead in a theorethical 150 years. is this because you wanted to keep the timeline grounded at a technological level that it is more feasible to extrapolate or because you believe is the most likely possible path of development available under that set of circumstances?

thank you for reading my rambling questions

bcaa12

Thank you so much for your comments. It is a warm feeling to know that one's work has affected people positively. I was just checking in on this site and, honestly, I was very happy when I saw your post.

Though, as you pointed out, many are interrelated, I shall respond to your questions one at a time, as they probe deeply enough into my alternate history that it would do disservice not to answer them in full. Kudos on your insight!

First, you are correct about the Romans and watermills. However, such a production circumstance is insufficient for an industrial revolution, as such an era is brought on when the productive capacity of a society greatly exceeds the possibilities of human and animal power. For example, a car was over a dozen times as powerful as a horse (even more so today), and a linen factory could produce dozens of the amount of cloth of which a human weaver was capable. I understand (and understood) two qualities for an industrial revolution to occur: (1) a reproducible and mobile energy source, and (2) a mechanism for the automation of certain tasks to certain degrees. While watermills are easy enough to construct, and can run most any machinery, they are limited in quantities and locations. In this alternate history, these sources of power come in the form of generators and steam engines, but not simultaneously in the same country.

Second, your astute, though somewhat muddled it seems, observation touches on the completely distinct nature of that timeline's industrial revolution, when compared to our own. Unsurprisingly, since they are worlds different in so many ways, the development of technology and culture around industry occurred in a completely different way. By chance, the Romans unearthed a lost technology (which Our modern society recently found too) that allowed for the supply of a weak electrochemical current. While, the Romans could replicate the chemicals by their properties - a none too simple though quite doable task - they had absolutely no understanding of the theory behind the electricity they could now wield. The generation of electricity by induction (i.e. by generator) is perhaps the greatest scientific discovery in human history (just look what it's done), and required the genius of Michael Faraday, and the circumstances of post-enlightenment Britain, to come to fruition. In any case, it took similar genius for such an advancement in the Roman world. Though I admit that with motor technology, the Romans probably should have stumbled on to it sooner.

Third, Christianity took hold in the Roman world in Our world. and culturally speaking, seemed eerily capable of spreading through Polytheistic cultures. Looking at the historical spreads of Christianity and Islam, it seemed inconceivable to me that the same would not transpire in an alternate world already affected by the New Testament writing era. I further defend the RAPID spread of Christianity under these pretenses: (1) a stable society racked by a nauseating gulf between rich and poor is a prime environment for the spread of the meek message of the Christians, just as Real peasants were so attracted to the faith for that reason; (2) the wealthy of Rome were so strongly interested in Christianity because the more intellectually minded Romans, from the influences of a succession of "enlightened" emperors, would more quickly reject anthropomorphic gods in favor of a religion where god is an indescribable, creating force. To close, it should be noted that Constantine still became emperor, and his reign had a similar cultural effect as it Really did.

Your fourth question, I think, is especially insightful since it points out an overally trend of the timeline, and a none-too-insignificant potential flaw. The lack of rapid scientific advance during the Two Hundred Years War is actually the result of exactly what you say, that most scientific advance (until the modern era) came from circumstance and genius rather than just active research. So I can assure that technology still improved a great deal during the war, but only in the sense that old technologies were perfected in light of the science already known to the two superpowers. Without certain great discoveries (e.g. steam power, electromagnetic field theory, atomic theory, orbital theory) people were limited in how much they could advance. The advancements they did make are nevertheless clear: the Roman testudo became electric and run by finely crafted mechanisms, the Mayans began rifling their weapons and both sides designed boats at a level that would have rivalled the Real Greeks and Chinese at their naval peaks.

I do concede that it's silly the Romans couldn't replicate firearms after two hundred years of war. I may change that in order to improve plausibility. As well, you're comments make me want to delve into the nitty-gritty inventions from the "pressure-cooker" of technological development that that war almost certainly was.

Fifth, the Roman "Ironclads" were clad in titanium, since they had it at the time and it is lighter. I use the name only to draw the parallel to Our similarly designed ships. (phew...I don't believe it, short answer)

Sixth, the lack of germ theory in Rome is actually one of my favorite intricacies of the timeline, since it shows how different the way of thinking is there. It may have been better if I had specified that while the Romans had no knowledge of the germ theory of diseases, they were well aware of the existence of bacteria, which they describe as microscopic flora (...so tiny animals). The Mayan meanwhile, who never needed to develop astronomical equipment since they had perfected other means of astronomy, also never developed microscopes, and only later acquired the technology from the Romans. So they didn't even know about bacteria at all. Hygiene on the other hand is just a pragmatic development for any civilized society, after a couple hundred years you notice that people die less in a hospital when you wash your hands.

You are spot on with that point about the "philosophical development" of the timeline. I saw the Romans as this technological juggernaut, focusing on the fundamentals of science rather than specific applications of it (as in medicine, material chemistry, etc). They only had eyes for an understanding of the universe, and the practical tech they development in that search was mostly icing on the cake for most Roman scientists (and maybe a source of research funds). The Mayans are the true pragmatists of scientists, they would ignore the fundamental meaning behind their discoveries and focus on what was actually observed. i.e. when mixing substances together, they were less concerned with how the substances interacted than with what input of substance was required for a particular output. Their approach lends very well to chemistry and material science (since a lot of that is trial and error). Finally, the Inca specialized in biology by virtue of circumstance i.e. their homeland is within a region of the greatest biodiversity in the world, as well as necessity, since they didn't have the large population of the Mayans that would allow them to weather the storm of European diseases.

Lastly, I don't think the rapidity of developments in the modern age needs any explanation (it's a historical inevitability). Also, you may underestimate the degree to which the timeline has advanced. Outside of the countries of the Romans, Mayans, Mongols and Inca, technology is pretty much on par with Our world, if not slightly more advanced. However, the Roman Empire could easily be centuries ahead of us. Easy interplanetary travel, plentiful nuclear fusion, and handheld laser weaponry are so advanced that We can hardly conceive of the actual, technological means by which they could be possible. However, you are right that I didn't want to advance the timeline too much, in the hopes that I could avoid the slippery slope of rampant speculation (did I?)

Anyways, for anyone who has read this, particularly you, I thank you for bearing with me. I hope this has cleared up a few things, though I strongly encourage criticism of what I have just said if the fancy strikes you.

Thanks for listening,

Red VS Blue 04:39, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

This certainly explains many of my questions about the timeline, I must say I do really enjoy immensely this timeline, the more I look at it the more I like it. I look forward to the 3rd Roman millennium greatly.

I think the 200 year war technological problem is not as bad as I made it seem, while it is true that the Romans did not develop gunpowder weapons seems implausible, you do give openly one explanation, the Mayan navy was not as advanced as the Roman Navy and was unable to do a very effective breach of the Roman blockade which would have made the delivery of heavy artillery a very dicey and expensive proposition. This is all assuming that the mayan gunpowder technology is only slightly more advanced than the Turk-Ottomans gunpowder weapons OTL, while powerful they were extremely innacurate, gunpowder weapons remained so until the late 18th century. While on the other side Roman artillery in the 1st century AD was more accurate and with far more range than napoleonic era cannons, what would another thousand years of development in the same line, with geniuses like Archaedevincus made of Roman artillery, it would probably make gunpowder weapons look like noisy firecrackers, and not that effective. I seem to recall that you put that Romans never abandoned armor. I would like to assume that even Roman hand-held archery weapons, I think the polybolos, would have been designed to have the capability to penetrate Roman armor, which would make this weapons more akin railguns than ballests. the necessary penetration power would have required it I think. Which now that I am writing this, makes me realize that most likely the army that was at a real disadvantage was the Mayan one, which had never fought a heavily armored extremely disciplined army. I do concede that the first battle would have been an outright embarrasment to the Romans. So a 200 year stalemate truly makes sense.

I do agree with you that I had underestimated the Roman level of advancement to the modern age. I do find fascinating your description of several industrial revolutions, and the development truly makes sense. specially with the way this timeline is setup, Romans having never gone into chemistry seriously, except in electrochemics, and more into the serious physical sciences would have developed extremely effecive and advanced solutions to their problems which would have slowed certain avenues of research, particularly going into space, and material development. Also I do see that you made the Romans a "Highly Ecological" civilization,which lends to the development of things that last and do not need to be replaced regularly, which actually makes sense. it is more in line with the whole I'm so impressive I dont have to replace that for a thousand years, maybe more.

I am very interested in seeing how you develop the timeline for the last 20 years, after the bellum aegidus, obviously there was a change in opinion about the whole interoceanic bridge, and I am curious about how space development is going to go, maybe a space manifest destiny. Though what I consider one of the most interesting things is how the relationship between the nations is going to evolve now that the Romans will no longer depend on terrenal expansion to gain power. Is there going to be a second space race? an orbital war?

To me it is all so fascinating

Thank you.

Long time, huh?
It's been a while, hasn't it? How has the ATL been going?

Rcox1995 22:41, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Haha, it seems like it. And, that is a good thing. It definitely is quite nice. And, I really do not know. I may dabble with my Emperor's Dream ATL, but it may be a bit before I truly get around to working on it.

We
After I read this timeline, I thought I consider trying to work on it because I like the concept of this. What details will I have to know about when I do this?

RandomWriterGuy 22:31, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Though I've stagnated in my work on this site, I still have plans for where this timeline is headed and it is difficult to communicate to you those ideas. So you are more than welcome, in fact I encourage, to suggest additions to the timeline or comment on what would likely happen next. You can even propose whole additions...but I'm kind of tentative to accept another person on as a contributor, if you can understand. Anyways, I can help you with the former things if you want. Red VS Blue 05:12, October 19, 2011 (UTC)

Ergent Message
I need to tell this to you quickly: I had created a new page in the "We" althist, but LG told me I can't edit your althist. Was I supposed to?

P.S. Send response in my talk page.

RandomWriterGuy 02:15, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Simply out, you told him he couldn't, Red, and he saw it as saying that he could. He actually went and made a page, removing part of another to do so, when you told him you were welcoming ideas and comments, but not a contributor. Lordganon 03:24, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Apology
I really wanted to apologize what I did. I felt what I did was wrong and stupid. I misguided for what you said and it led me into all of this. Can you please forgive me?

P.S. LG has been accused me of this and stuff. Is it possible that he could apoligize to me for his mistake?

RandomWriterGuy 23:06, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

We
Because my suggestion was left unanswered, I thought I put it in your talk page where its is closer to you.

I suggest a few things: RandomWriterGuy 21:45, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) I suggest the European Revolution be put into its own page, since putting it in the History of the French Republic just does not sound right.
 * 2) For the European Revolution, Eastern and Southeast Europe are the most hard hit area of the European Revolution. Uprisings, riots, and boycotts all plague Eastern and Southern European Countries. During this time, the European peoples of the Ottoman empire rebel for independence. In Russia, the nation falls into a civil war, with victory for the rebels and the end of the Tsar. With the exception of Russia and Britain, all of Euopre unites to form to European Union. In the Ottoman Empire, the Ottomans loose all lands in Europe and their lands bordering the Aegan Sea are handed to Greece.
 * 3) The European Revolution effects Britain, when Ireland and British India begins to rebel for independence. Taking advantage of this, the US declares war against Britain to seize its empire in the Americas and the Pacific. The British fought the Americans around Canada, but due to the Irish and Indian reblleions eventually, the British lost, and was forced to hand over its overseas empire to America, while Ireland and India became independent.
 * 4) The European revolution also effected European colonies, causing independence wars in the Americas, Africa, and Asia. In the Americas, wars and revolutions pitted the colonies aginst their Motherlands. By the end of the European Revolution, the colonies gained Independence. In the Americas, the Americans funded the new countries and help promote and develop democracy.

Sorry for not answering sooner. Next time you only need to post a little reminder here for me to check the suggestions page. My talk page is getting a little unwieldy in size. Anyways, to your questions: The format of this timeline is to follow the emergence of a universal democratic government through philosophic and political changes in history. The French Republic is its predecessor, so the timeline begins with its history. Basically, I want to only have one linear timeline with smaller pages to flesh out the details and it would be difficult to do that with several different "plots" going on at once. Know what I mean?

You are describing very much what I have planned for the Ottomans, though I doubtless have different specifics planned. In the scenario, I would anticipate violent uprisings from the European states under Ottoman rule but also, since the empire has yet to really weaken, I see them whipping up a storm on that account. Greece, as the cradle of democracy, will be a flashpoint for European sentiments. Russia on the other hand, I expect to remain a strong monarchal state due to the strong presence of feudalism, hence it would be a counterweight to the growing European democracies.

The United Kingdom is already mostly democratic, so the events in Europe would not likely affect it so much. Though if you had historical data showing otherwise, say based on their actual reaction to the french revolution, I'd more than easily change my view. I have to say, I need to know more about Anglo-American relations in the period to say more about the rest. However, I am pretty sure India was not yet a colony so I don't think that will come up as much of an issue at first. As for the Irish, I'm at a loss as well. I must do more research before working on their history.</li></li>

The same as above with the Americans applies here. If their relations were friendly then I don't see this happening. However, if they were at the brink of war...well things could get interesting. Now, what I could use a lot of fresh opinions with is what will happen between the States and the Spanish colonies. Keeping in mind that all Iberian colonies are voting members of democratic Spain, I have yet to determine whether any actual separation would have happened.</li>That's a bit of an informal response to your questions, and since I understand if you'd like something with more substance, feel free to point out my mistakes on any of these points. Ultimately, realism is my goal for the timeline. Also, since I intend to look into a splintering Ottoman Empire, are there any detailed thoughts you had on how that might go down? Thanks for your input, Red VS Blue 00:39, November 3, 2011 (UTC) </li> </li> Thank you so much. I also got some responses as well: I think the downfall of the Ottoman Empire in this timeline may be our main issue here. The effects of the European Revolution will defintly affect what will be going on in this timeline. I do want to see the Europeans under the Turks become independent and eventually, the downfall of the empire. RandomWriterGuy 18:12, November 6, 2011 (UTC)</li>
 * You're trying to tell me that all of Europe (except the British and Russian Empires) will become one country in this timeline. Am I correct?
 * The reason for this is because of nationalism. The force of nationalism is very strong. It was the force that brought down Austria-Hungary, USSR, Yugoslavia, you do know where this is going, right? I thought that nationalism would become a major political and ideolocial force in the timeline, which is why I brought up this. For Russia, the reason I brought it up was because that when the movement gets stronger and stronger as it heads east, it will get losts of attention and responses and outcomes. I chose Russia because the serfs would be influenced by this, causing them to rebel for freedom.
 * Most Americans have hated Britain due to its harrassment of American sailors. America could get revenge by declaring war against Britain. There was also resistence to British rule in Ireland by its people, so that is why I brought it up.
 * The changes in Spain don't affect its colonies, right?

American Empire (Map Game)
I want to invite you to join my map game. There are plenty of nations left and the gaem has already begun

hope youll join,

DeanSims 23:39, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, but I have no interest in the map games here. Good luck finding another.

Red VS Blue 00:47, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Think Before You Act
I am currently working on a timeline called Think Before You Act. Do you like it? Oh, and I was also wondering if you can help. I'm trying to make the format of my timeline similar to yours. Can you help me on that?

RandomWriterGuy 22:09, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Technology in Superpowers
While I am impressed that technology in Superpowers is more advanced than OTL, I believe they must be more advanced than that. In OTL, it took only decades to get electricity started, but this took just a few centuries. Can they be even more advanced than that? RandomWriterGuy 00:04, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

haha How advanced do you think their technology is? Red VS Blue 01:13, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe 700 years from now (the present day in the ATL). But I was thinking in 500 years after the first POD, the technology of the Superpowers world should be the same as the present in OTL. RandomWriterGuy 01:24, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Because electricity is discovered in 616 CE? You're right that if technological advancement were a matter of moving down a technology tree and getting a technology like electricity opened the door to things that historically followed it (e.g. turbines, motors) then by 800 CE the Romans would have Our level of technology. But technology is a aggregate system of idea and techniques that advances by discovery under particular circumstances.

So the Romans have batteries in 616 but only understand that some chemicals produce electric current through metal rods. That's actually not a very impressive technology to have. It includes nothing of the theoretical or even technical basis of an electrical industry. No one in 7th century alt-Rome knows what current is, what an electric field is, what the link between electricity and magnetic rocks is, or even what chemical states create current. Nothing practical can be done with this knowledge.

In the timeline, a scientist discovers how to build a motor but even he only understand that current in a magnetic field was "pushed" around. The Roman world at the time had direct current, but a motor needs alternating current so his discovery had no practical purpose. In the 800's, engineers built a crude motor with direct current that was too dangerous for most uses.

K, before I go off the rails with details I'll be short.

The theoretical side of electromagnetism didn't come till 1210, about 600 years before Faraday in OTL. Rome's Maxwell didn't come till 1367 (500 years early). At this point, Rome had an industrial revolution fueled by renewable electrical energy from hydro, wind and geothermal. The really important point here is that they only have electricity. Computers, the real game-changer, weren`t invented until 1836. This meant that Rome was stuck in a indutrialized limbo, without an Information Age, for about 500 years. They still have cars, radio, telephone and what-not before computers so they were equivalent to a 1950`s America in technology. Demand for computers for consumer use was insignificant till the 20th century so there was no drive to make them more efficient.

K, speed run time (I don`t know how this turned into a technology summary...sorry)

The first nuclear bomb wasn`t made till 1931. Man walked on the Moon in 1946. Soldiers are armed with railguns in 1947. NOW the future is here. Fusion power is commonplace by the 1960`s and industrial production of antimatter starts around the same time. Man lands on Mars in 1970 and satellites are launched in 1975 that can hit targets with laser energy. By the 80`s Rome`s allies have clone armies, and Rome has interplanetary warships, is mining asteroids and terraforming the Earth. My best guess is that this is 200 years ahead of Our world.

I don`t know if this summary clarifies things, but my point is that technology advancement isn`t linear or a mirror image of OTL. Sometimes devices are created when the inventors don`t know how they work (e.g. bicycles) and other times scientific principles are so well understood that industrial techniques can`t create what is possible by them (e.g. nuclear fusion in the ATL).

Red VS Blue 20:51, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

But even in its Golden Age, why is the technological advancement sometimes slow? RandomWriterGuy 00:57, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Because certain advancements can only be made when you have specific knowledge, the economic circumstances are right, and someone makes the connection. You can't have a development without all three except by pure chance. There was no electromagnetic theory so electrical technology stagnated until the 13th century. The next big advancement would be computers and there was simply no demand for analytical engines or calculating machines, which are a necessary precursor to a computer.

Many behind-the-scenes advancements would have gone on over those thousands of years. Like Roman generators and motors would work significantly better in the 1800's than any we can build today. Even their batteries were more efficient hundreds of years ago. Little things like that are what allowed the Roman to advance so fast in the 20th century. Once computers are invented, a flood gate opens because all the minor inventions that We eventually discovered were thought about years before by the Romans in this timeline.

Technology isn't straight input-output like a factory. That's an important fact to remember when writing a timeline.

Red VS Blue 05:02, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

But I'm confused. I mean, in OTL, it just took like nearly 500 years after the Renaissance to get the computer and electric technologies, but in this ATL, it took maybe longer. So you're saying that in terms of technology, the OTL had the upper hand in advancing, right? RandomWriterGuy 05:25, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Technology isn't straightforward enough to always say that one nation has the upper hand. Sometimes it is, don't get me wrong, but it often isn't. The Romans got better computers faster than our world once their computer industry took off in 1869. Their "Moore's law" would have been a doubling in processing speed every year or so, not every 18 months like in OTL. Also, the Romans invented fusion reactors 26 years after the atom bomb. We've had atomic bombs since the 1940's. Does that make more sense?

PS I noticed a mistake in my timeline regarding computational speed (in 1910's). The error mades the development of computers far too slow. But I fixed it. Red VS Blue 01:20, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

I get your point now. Thanks for talking with me about this. P.S. I want to ask you one question that is below this comment that relates to the timeline. RandomWriterGuy 21:38, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Future Events in Superpowers
Have you planned any future events in the SUperpowers timeline yet? What's you plan for the 21st Century? RandomWriterGuy 21:40, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Good question! I have a huge plan for the 21st century. I've written the first chapter and a half of a novel that will tell that story but I want to keep the plot moving with regular updates so I might wait for a month when I have a lot of free time. It'll be quite an undertaking but I've been improving my writing and I think I can maintain a consistent output when the time comes. I don't want to reveal any of the details yet. Red VS Blue 16:21, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe there would be a massive New Years Celebration that would mark the beginning of the 3rd Millenium just like OTL, but grander. Possibly numerous fireworks, sporting events, or even a vacation! How does that sound? --RandomWriterGuy 18:42, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

It's not the beginning of a new year millennium in the Roman Empire (or any ATL country for that matter) haha For them the year 2000 AD is 2753 ad urbe condita. The last millennial celebration was in 1247 AD, to which I have yet to give any details. Red VS Blue 19:36, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking about a possible ATL version of the Y2K virus. The Roman Empire plunges into panic when a suspected computer virus would disrupt all systems, causing things the OTL version could have caused. Some say it was a nation from the enemy side of WW3 as a plot for revenge. Fortunately, it never struck, yet the empire has a large bounty to capture anyone whoever is responsible for the hoax. --RandomWriterGuy 22:52, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

That's an interesting idea but like I said, there's no new millennium in the Roman calendar. The next millennial celebration is in 237 years. I don't plan on writing that long. Red VS Blue 22:57, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'll let you decide. For now, I think I have another special topic to discuss about- one that refers to OTL events. RandomWriterGuy 23:49, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Um, what? There's nothing to decide... Ok. Red VS Blue 03:12, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

i meant the ATL version of the Y2K virus. Sorry about that. RandomWriterGuy 22:36, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

ATL Protestantism
I was wondering if there would be an ATL version of Protestantism in this timeline (Superpowers). I thought of a good idea for it to occur: the Roman Church, while the supreme religious head of Rome, it is also needs money to help run it. It is most likely they would sell indulgences to do this (kind of how the OTL Catholic CHurch did this). Also, I might envision for the church to be somewhat corrupt due to their power. This would probably cause an ATL version of Martin Luther to attack the church, demanding its reform. But just like OTL, the church expells him and demands him to take back his beliefs. However, this ideology becomes a movement just like OTL, causing some degree of mayhem and chaos between the two sides. In the end, the Senate would have to allow the legalization of Protestantism to end the chaos.

What do you think? RandomWriterGuy 23:53, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I've been very particular about the direction that religion, especially the Catholic Church, goes in this timeline. The Romans take their religion very seriously as an institution and in this timeline they treat Christianity no differently. Now the Church has no shortage of money because it's funded by the government. The need to sell indulgences doesn't exist like it did in OTL. As well, the morality of the Church doesn't become corrupted by the desire for money. There would be no critic of the Church like Martin Luther for two reasons.

1) Religion has a very specific place in Roman life, providing a connection to the divine. But the Romans don't fear death the way other societies do (this is historically true). And while they believed in an afterlife, their belief in Tartarus (Eng: Hell) is not as bad as OTL's Christians and they believe that only an ethical lifestyle can get them to Heaven. So indulgences wouldn't make sense to a Roman. 2) There isn't much to reeally criticize in this version of the Church. It has its vices and is a little corrupt, but it's probably the least corrupt organization of its size in the timeline (the way a religious organization ought to be). A stoic sense of duty is taught at all religious colleges, and only the well-off and educated can become priests. The process of becoming a priest is hard and takes years of theological education.

Obviously, this church contrasts sharply with OTL's church. But it's not surprising when you consider that in OTL the church was its own country (the Papal States), with its own national interests, and the priesthood was more decentralized partly because Europe wasn't united into one state (like the Roman Empire).

But there is something like protestantism (i.e. a non-catholic christian faction) in other parts of the world. It's a sect of Christianity called Arianism. The Arians separated from the Church at the start of its history because they didn't believe in the divine Trinity. In this timeline, Arianism was practiced by Germans and now 0.7% of the Roman population are followers. But that religion is a minor part of the timeline, and never led to any large scale disruption in the church like the emergence of protestants in OTL.

Anything else you'd like to suggest? I don't mean to discourage. Red VS Blue 03:11, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

But the belief that a Caesar can be a pope? Maybe that can be something some Romans would dislike for religious and political reasons. --RandomWriterGuy 15:27, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that's a great point. So I have a question in return. Why would you, as a hypothetical Roman citizen, be against a Caesar as pope? Red VS Blue 16:14, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

What if the Caesar wants to control the church his image in a negative way? What if he was corrupt? Maybe the fear of a corrupt emperor being a pope coulod be a reason for this. RandomWriterGuy 20:39, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

A fair point, and that actually gives me an idea for the 14th century. In the timeline in 1372, a general takes over the position as emperor in a coup d'ètat. He is the first Caesar who is not descended from the original emperor-pope. I could see many religious groups being angered by that kind of subversion of the status quo and ordering some kind of separation of the church from government and removal of Caesar as pope. This scenario would be an interesting way to reduce the political significance of the Church in general. As the timeline stood, I didn't really explain how that change happened. Thank you for the idea.

I don't see any possibility of an actual schism of the Roman church though. The unity of religion in the Empire is too strong. Also, different cultures are appeased by having their own Christian liturgy so a schism on rituals is unlikely if not almost impossible. Red VS Blue 22:13, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

O.K. Thanks for the help. RandomWriterGuy 22:36, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Feel free to ask anything else when it comes to mind. Red VS Blue 23:06, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

New Superpowers TL
I am proposing another TL very similar to Superpowers, but its PODs take place way ahead into the future.

In this TL, there will be three PODs:

What do you think?
 * 1771: An American named Jerry Jackson is born in Boston, where he grows up to be one of the greatest American military geniuses an presidents of America, allowing it to expand across the Western Hemisphere and the Pacific.
 * 1809: Napoleon cease-fires with his enemies to rebuild his military, navy, and economy. In 1812, he starts war all over again, this time, he conquers all of Europe.
 * 1845: France sends an expedition to China requesting it to open trade. At first, the Chinese refused, but after the French came back with a much larger navy, the terrified Chinese coincede to the request, allowing a Meiji-like scenario in China.

P.S. How did the Mongols, Japanese, Incans, and Khymers westernize in the Superpowers TL? RandomWriterGuy 05:38, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Not a bad concept. A modern take on my "good leadership" thought experiment should provide a unique direction to build a timeline. You may want to change the American's name since there was a president of the same last name at the time. Also, Jerry Jackson sounds like an ice cream flavor.

The Napoleon POD is well chosen as you can put it around the Treaty of Schonbrunn. However, historically he didn't fight between 1809 and 1812 so perhaps the divergence could be that he doesn't enter a major war again. An invasion of Russia is out of the question if a French Empire will surive. That much is certain.

For your question on my timeline, none of those countries westernized. Their cultures stayed predominantly their own. They modernized in their own time. Japan's industrial revolution occurred in the 1800's as they invented their own internal combustion and steam engines. The Mongols have advanced at roughly the same rate as OTL's UK. The Khmer have advanced at a similar rate to OTL's Japan. Inca technology is rather complicated as they didn't develop industrial technologies until the late-1800's but their biotechnology is centuries ahead of the rest of the world. I should add more detail to their own developments. The timeline still lacks those details.Red VS Blue 06:11, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I change the name of the American name to George Cain. I propose that as general and president, the U.S. expands to seize Britain's possessions in the Americas, as well as those of Spain.

For France, I propose that Napoleon declare war to support America during the War of 1814. This causes the Napoleonic Wars to occur once more, with all of Europe falling under French control. His descendants would also control areas in Africa and Asia.

For China, I propose it go through a Chinese version of the Meiji era. They would build up their empire, conquering land in Central Asia, Japan, Southeast Asia, and take territory from Russia.

What do you think? RandomWriterGuy 22:49, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

George Cain is a little more creative. But that's too ambitious for America. Taking Canada is reasonable given its small size and colonial population. And Caribbean states could make sense, but not if they're taken early. Anything more would be ridiculous. The American border should stop at the Rio Grande in ANY alternate history.

Uh, 1814 seems still a little early. If Napoleon is to be successful in conquering Europe he needs to gather his forces and strike at a weak point for the other nations. I assume that George Cain will fight the British during the War of 1812 so that fight will probably end later than 1815 and be more costly for the British. He might even kill Arther Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington. Napoleon would be aware of the colonial turmoil so I think 1817 is a good time, give or take a year, for him to declare war on the other states of Europe.

I don't have much to say about China. Only that many European powers tried invading it during the 1800's.

Red VS Blue 14:12, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, there have been some few non-ASB alternate histories that do explain when the United States does take over lands below the RIo Grande. I'm proposing that they would promise the exiles Spanish government protection in exhchange to be a part of the US when it looses to Napoleon. That means all Spanish lands in the Americas are officially a part of the US.

The reason I said 1814 was because I was believing on one of the terms for cease-fire, Napoleon would probably end the Continental System. This would reduce the British harrassment of American sailors going to France, but still in no way of preventing war. 1817 may be good in my opinion.

For China, well, let's just say if an emperor who endorses the West rises to the throne (this scenario by the way was inspired by the Monarchy World Timeline I found in the web, just google it and you'll see). Does that do good?

RandomWriterGuy 15:39, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Um, a constitutional union of the USA and New Spain is a bit more plausible. But I'd need to see evidence that tension at the time between them was low. It doesn't make sense to combine two territories that hate each other. See Israel-Palestine (present), or India-Pakistan (1947). That's research you should do before writing that into the timeline. Also, you will have to account for the cultural divide separating English from Spanish USA in a union of that kind. Finally, if you think about it, Spanish America couldn't even keep itself together in reality so you'd think it would be less likely that it coheres when a bunch of English states are thrown on top and control of them is given to non-spaniards and non-natives. It's food for thought.

What terms of ceasefire?

Ok, the idea of a Chinese Meiji sounds plausible. And that timeline presents it well. But you'd have to focus on the personality of the Emperor that makes the transition. His diplomatic actions would be central to an industrial change. Red VS Blue 16:00, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

There was no evidence of them having any conflict during this period.

As I said before, Napoleon would decalre a cease-fire with his enemies. Ending the Continental System is one of them.

What I'm saying is that if you are going to make the TL as a suggestion. I mean, you don't have to accept this. RandomWriterGuy 16:25, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

That's good. The challenge of combining two very different socities still needs to be overcome. It's crucial to remember that SOMETHING(S) split the Spanish colonies and those same things will be a problem for a USA that assimilates them.

But what does the Continental System have to do with declaring war again in 1814?

Sorry, I didn't quite follow your last sentence. Could you please rephrase it? Red VS Blue 18:03, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

For Napoleon, what I'm trying to say is that after the cease-fire, Napoleon would rebuild his army and navy with the advantages of the cease-fire. When USA declares war on Britain, so does France.

I'm saying that it is a suggestion for you if you want to make the TL, just saying. RandomWriterGuy 01:30, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Um, you mean Napoleon would use the break in hostilities to rebuild his military? I agree with you but what does that have to do with ending the Continental System?

Oooh, you suggest I write this timeline? lol No, thank you, I have enough althistory on my plate. I had the impression you wanted to create the timeline. I have no interest in starting a new one yet. The only timeline I would create is the one I have on my Ideas page. Even that will stay on the drawing board a while. Red VS Blue 05:00, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I thought Napoleon would use this to gain resources from Britain through trade, so that way, he would use those resources to rebuild the military.

Well, maybe you could put that in the ideas page. WHo knows when it will be created? RandomWriterGuy 06:16, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I think Napoleon's trade with the rest of Europe would be more than enough to rebuild his armies. If an embargo of the UK was that damaging to France's economy than you can bet the French wouldn't have banned trade with it in the first place.

Honestly, I'm more attached to ideas that I invented than ones that are given to me. I appreciate the sentiment but if the concept endears you so much then I suggest that you look into writing it. What do you say to that?

Red VS Blue 06:28, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm working on my own timeline and I can't do that. Anyways, what do you plan for 1993? RandomWriterGuy 22:52, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, the 1990's are a reconstruction period. The Romans, Maya, and Japanese need to recover from the Third World War and consolidate control over their new 'vassal' states. Specifically, a Transatlantic Bridge is under construction to connect Lusitania (Portugal) to Halorium (New York). The Eden and Magneuropa Projects have been completed so the Mediterranean is an anthro-regulated lake and the Sahara is a lush grassland. The Mars and Moon colonies are rapidly expanding in size and terraforming of the Red Planet is underway. The 90's are the point when Rome enters a level of technology at the limit of what We can imagine. Red VS Blue 01:11, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Royal house resource page
I just discovered the exhaustive list you added to Royal house. What a wonderful resource! It more than deserves one of this site's first Barnstars: Benkarnell 05:08, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I did not expect this. Actually, I don't know what this is. But with appreciation, I accept. Thank you, Ben. Red VS Blue 05:20, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's new. I'm starting it. Alternative History:Barnstars. Put it on your user page, or not. Whichever. You're welcome :) Benkarnell 05:37, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Measurement Table in Superpowers
I am starting to do a page on measurement, but I see a table you have which is something I need. Now, I'm not trying to plagarize your work here, but, can I copy it to my TL? RandomWriterGuy 23:49, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Your Other TLs
What do you plan for your TLs of Fiedi Defensor and We? You haven't done much work to them. RandomWriterGuy 03:00, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

They're being written in their own time. I'm not as knowledgeable on those areas so I need more research to stay historically accurate. I write when I can and there's no rush.

Also, I noticed your question from a few week ago. If you mean the table of orders of magnitude then go ahead. I learned the source code from Wikipedia so it's hardly my material. Red VS Blue 05:56, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Hi I have an interesting question that popped to me while I was reading a book about the fall of the Roman Empire. it is about slavery, I had forgotten it, but it came back while I was reading through your timeline and came with the 1449 rights of man and slaves. As I recall Roman Slavery was a particularly weird institution during the Empire, especially during the 2nd century AD, which resembles more a weird combination of 19th century Brazilian slavery with post civil war treatment of African-Americans in the US.

so while I am reading your ATL I begin to wonder how are you explaining the reversal of the rights movements for slaves that got started during the first 2 centuries of the Empire, and the later virtual freeing of all christian slaves after the Christianization of the empire in OTL. Especially with the fact that in your ATL the Romans spend such vast periods of time in relative peace, which would decrease dramatically the slave population and that coupled with the fact that traditionally in OTL Roman emperors were pro pleb labor. vs patrician slave labor wealth enrichment. which decreased the power of the emperors.

just a weird question but I cant ignore the fact that in the ATL timeline you have the romans starting a serious African Slave. which bothers me. because it actually goes against what the romans would usually do to get slaves. I would have expected to have a very large columbian/muslim slave trade, not an african one. especially with the wars you have happening during the time period.

Bcaa12 23:45, March 15, 2012 (UTC)bcaa12

Slavery in my ATL underwent long dry periods during, as you said, those relatively peaceful years. My theory was that the scarcity of slaves as spoils of war would shift the Roman attitude towards slavery into a business like OTL Europeans ran in the Renaissance, where people were exported from other nations as slaves.

I didn't know that the emperors favored plebeian over slave labor though. Thank you for pointing that out. I haven't written much on slavery during the 200's to 1200's so I'm interested in what you know about Roman attitudes toward slavery in the 100's that would influence the development of slaving practices in that long period. Red VS Blue 03:53, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Slavery in the first and second centuries AD was a bit of a weird institution as far, we can know. In this case the information available to us about Roman slavery is at best very thin and scarce. but what is known is that while slavery was very popular during the Republic. it was not so much during the Empire.for many factors including the lack of actual large conquest and defeated armies with a large number of POWs who could be sold into slavery.

I have to point out that slavery was considered by the Plebs a negative economic factor, and to the emperors a very large obstacle to solidifying their power. roman slavery unlike any other slaveowning nation was different in that it was not largely used for farming, there were many restrictions for slave farming. which also was a contributing factor that farming in the roman empire never really left the subsistence level in the great majority of the empire. one of the very large sticks the emperors used to keep control of the aristocracy was the dissolution of Latifundia, which meant that the lone farmer was favored over the large landowners. which meant that plantation slavery was not very large. also this meant it was very easy to reward retiring soldiers with land to farm.

Roman Slavery at that point was actually very much mainly forced labor, mining and service slavery (sexual and otherwise). it is a fact that unlike say the Germanies. in which slaves who were called thralls, were treated no better than animals in some cases the horse was better treated. roman slaves tended to be very skilled and in many cases highly educated. some of the main areas of slave service were of course, gladiators, firemen, servants and construction manpower. which do require a high degree of skills, whether is intellectual or physical, the great majority of tutors and teachers at the time were highly educated Greek slaves. this led at the time of the Boni imperii to extend laws protecting slaves. mainly that they could not be punished harshly and slaves could complain for unfair treatment. and that they had to be "reasonably" provided for. more than that there is not much info available.

this meant that unlike any other nation in the world at the time. Roman Law did consider slaves human beings with rights. in the philosophical way the law put it. was quite simply "The natural state of man is freedom, but the laws of man can create a set of conditions and abrogations that reduce that natural freedom into a state of servitude". this also meant that unlike other states roman slaves while when freed did not gain the rights of citizens. did gain the full protection of the law. and their children would be considered full citizens. this also meant that due the legal differences of slavery in rome, it was actually very uncommon for slave trade between nations to happen. particularly from the germanies. there were international treates signed that covered the recovery of slaves. and the national laws from whence the slave came and the owner. were the ones that were applied.

during this time period there is a very large slave population in the empire, and as such it was a very popular institution. after the 3rd century crisis OTL the large decrease in population and the lack of external wars (successful ones) which were the main medium to obtain slaves, decreased the slave population to the point that (as you probably already know) laws were passed to make trades hereditary. it is from this point onward that all we know about slavery in the roman empire both western and eastern, is that slavery got restricted to service slavery, no labor in any meaningful numbers. which would explain the large decline in large works in the late empires.

hope this is helpful.

Bcaa12 01:01, March 18, 2012 (UTC)bcaa12

Superpowers Revisited
I want to make a slightly more realistic version of Superpowers, but I need your permission? Can I, please? I would really appreciate it. MattiasWestby 21:27, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

What did you have in mind?

I'm not usually open to people using my works. But if your idea is good or creative I might reconsider that policy. Red VS Blue 23:54, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll try to make it as good as possible, and delete it if you don't like it. By the way, would you like to join the map game Texas? I'm hoping to get it off the ground again, since it seems to have flopped. MattiasWestby 17:44, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

You jumped the gun there, I didn't say go for it. But the easiest way for me to evaluate what you're doing with it is to look at what you write. So you have my permission now.

Thanks for the invite but I have no interest in the map games here. Red VS Blue 19:11, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks, I undeerstand. It's me, mattiasWestby, with a new signature. SPQR just sounded cool! Like it? And did Superpowers Revisited get deleted? SPQR 19:54, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Where is it? Red VS Blue 02:49, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

It was deleted on the 10th. Lordganon 03:55, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Request
I'm a writer currently working on what I hope is my first original novel, and as the headline of my post reads, I have a request: I'd like to use your Superpowers rendition of the Roman Empire as a model for one of the factions in my work. Up to this point, I've had difficulties with this particular faction; I intended it to be an empire in itself, but one that isn't "completely evil" and at the same time utopian (two traits that are not stereotyped to empires). Needless to say, I've had a very difficult period of time finding an appropriate model for it (both in RL and in fiction), until I came across your Superpowers timeline and its version of Imperium Romanum therein (which I wouldn't mind living in, though it helps that I'm Italian by heritage). That said, I wanted to ask you first before I did anything.

Wing Zero

I'm flattered. You have my permission to use the Imperium Romanum as a model if I hear about it once the novel comes out. I've struggled to flesh out a world here and seeing it alive, even in part, as a story would be very satisfying.

I leave it to you, as a writer, to use my material respectfully. Red VS Blue 02:49, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. And don't worry, I always give proper credit to my influences. If you're interested in the story (and the faction) I wish to apply the Imperium Romanum to, feel free to e-mail me at [mailto:wingzeroalpha173@yahoo.com wingzeroalpha173@yahoo.com]. For obvious reason, I don't like dicussing my ideas on wikis. - WZA

A Question
Hey, I've been reading your timeline for the last couple weeks. It absolutely amazing. You have very creative talent. Have you wrote past chapter 2 in The Setting Sun yet? If so, could you give me a link to where it might be or copy and paste it to here?

Thanks.

I'm glad you've enjoyed reading my timeline. It's always nice to hear that kind of feedback. Thank you, whoever you are!

Sorry to say that I've paused writing The Setting Sun to focus on research and writing unrelated to alternate history. When I write the novel I want to do it right so I won't work on it until I can devote substantially more time. Red VS Blue 02:50, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

About the Jews
This is an interesting TL, although I do find it odd how Jews managed to become so powerful here? By the time Marcus took power, Jews have been exiled across the Empire for decades. The province was called Syria Palaestina, and Jerusalem was replaced with Aelia Capitolina. They already caused two major rebellions against the Empire. A sudden burst of Persian goods doesn't seem like enough to make them such a force.

Moving past that, there is still the question of Christianity's tolerance towards Judaism. Jews were a massive threat to the early Christians, since they had massive conflicts with each other. Christianity made legislation that explicitly made a split between the two, along with scripture that didn't exactly portray Jews in a favorable light. You would have to change the way the entire religion developed to allow the Christians and Jews to get along.

Finally, going past those questions, what is the Judaism like? Do rabbis have a lot of authority? What is on the Temple Mount?

64.252.2.183 02:59, June 19, 2012 (UTC)Jon Mighty.

Very interesting questions! Tell me if these answers are satisfactory:

The dispersion of Jews from Palestine to other corners of the Empire supports Jewish culture's growth in power. The defining moment in the timeline is the invention of secular banking by Jewish money-lenders, since like in reality, Christians are forbidden from charging interest on loans (this disappears in the timeline after the civil war). Banks become widespread as Jews across the Empire build their own establishments and within a few centuries the aggregate economic clout of Jews is very high.

Grievances from the Jewish rebellions at the start of the millennium, like many events in history, were forgotten as the Jews made a new name for themselves in business.

What massive conflicts are you referring to between Christians and Jews? There is no inherent conflict between the two religions and their intimately shared origin is more than enough to foster a feeling of brotherhood between the Church and the Jews without extraneous factors creating strife.

Historically, persecution of the Jews is tied to 1. being a religious minority in European fiefdoms and kingdoms, 2. kings and lords desiring easy money without inciting the populace, these culminated into a policy where Christian kings and lords expelled Jews from their territories and took their possessions and land for profit. The Roman governments don't have this motivation and the Empire is naturally full of minority groups, including the more "damnable" pagans like druids.

Judaism's structure is not something I have given much thought to in this timeline, with most of my focus going towards its interactions with the Empire. What authority rabbis have depends on what you mean: on Jews or in general? As for the Temple Mount, I can assure you that a New Temple of Solomon covers the majority of its surface, built according to what was known of the designs of the original Temple. Red VS Blue 03:24, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Mayan World Ruler.
Hi. Got the Mayan word for world. It's 'Kab'. Hope this helps. This goes without saying, as you're not stupid, but be careful spelling it. Kaab, K'ab and Ka'b each mean very diferent things. David Rain (Sometimes...) 19:15, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you again, David. Wouldn't happen to know the adjectival form of Maya words, would you? Red VS Blue 20:41, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Hello, I was interested in learning about how you made Rome what it is today. It was the first article I read here, and I was really interested in knowing how you made the article. What kind of effort did it require, and what were you shooting for when you made it. --<font COLOR="878787">"Truth fears no questions..." 15:11, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Are you asking about the article for Rome, the city, or Rome, the empire? Red VS Blue 18:17, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Rome the empire. Sorry for that and the wait. --<font COLOR="878787">"Truth fears no questions..." 14:16, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, well my original goal was to create an article for a country that matched any other country article I found on this wiki and then to bring it up to the standards of the best country articles on wikipedia. The tone of voice I used and information I included was largely influenced by wikipedia country pages, the United States, France and China especially, and the wikipedia pages that delve deep into a specific aspect of a country page like "Culture in France".

More recently, I've been focusing on producing an article that stands alone in emersing the reader in the world I've been creating here. To this end, I tried including exactly the sort of information that would answer questions that could naturally come up for someone reading the article.

Those are the two main things I want from the article now: to answer any relevant questions and to emerse in the world I've created.

Red VS Blue (talk) 23:12, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Thank You, Eo
It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it :)

I'm constantly correcting Wikipedia, too.

"Seperate" is the worst but there are over a dozen more words that I correct.

Always remember there's A RAT in sepARATe.

EoGuy (talk) 15:20, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Maya
Could I make the Mayan Navy page? I need something to do as all my map games bar one have collaped and I love this timeline. David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 15:41, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, that sounds fine. The working title for their navy is the Colonida since it's main purpose is as a colony-maker and protector. Do with that what you can.

As well, I should point out that I will heavily edit your final product. I hope you don't mind that. I'm incredibly picky when it comes to this timeline lol Red VS Blue (talk) 16:54, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Of course. Superpowers is a masterpiece. How there are badges for 1983DD and not this is beyond me. It is by far the best timeline on the wiki.David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 14:06, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

That's very nice of you to say :) I've put a lot of work into it and I would think a reason it has no badges is that I'm its only contributor barring the much appreciated commissions of a handful of other writers.

Are you familiar with the history of the Maya Conglomerate? Red VS Blue (talk) 18:15, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Becoming so. Reading each article carefuly and cross referencing. Have a slight problem. What is the Mayan name for Hawaii (I assume this is the island ment by 'an island 3000km to the west of the mainland', when talking about the postion of the Colonida HQ)?David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 13:46, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well, the main city and military base on the islands are both named Kamehameha. But I don't think I've looked enough into what the islands themselves would have as a name. I'll leave that up to you with the note that it would be a Nahua-fied form of some local place name.

It's my understanding that the convention in studies of the Maya civilization is to only refer to the Mayan language with the adjective "Mayan" while other cases use the adjective "Maya". I may be wrong, but even if so, it's a convention I have adopted in this timeline that your article will need to follow as well. Red VS Blue (talk) 17:03, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Ok. I chose to name the islands Otot'i (a combination of the Mayan otot or 'Home' and the Hawaiian Hawai'i or 'Holmeland') as this would be easy for both groups to say and means more or less the same thing, whilst putting slightly more stress on the Mayan, giving the Maya a subtle linguistic expression of their superiority. I know you said local place name but it seems more realistic if they go for the name of the islands overall, whilst being many times easier to find a word both would be able to pronounce.

Please have a look at the rest of my base (Nahil, lit house) positions and tell me if you agree. The North Pasific Nahil is slightly smaller and used to watch otl Canada. If need be it could be moved to keep an eye on the Inca. Also on positioning, are lat. and long. taken from Rome? If so do you want me to account for this?

The Maya Naval ensign is purple as this was a respected colour among them and came from marine shellfish. It seemed appropriate. The gold star has three meanings. The first Venus, the war star. The four points symbolise the cardinal points (North, South, East and West) consituting the second meaning. The third meaning is the colour. Gold was thought to be the excretment of the gods, and therefore the colour came to symbolise divine power. The Motto is (and feel free to scrub this) the words said by the maya comander before a major (unspecified, maya victory) battle in the 200 years war.

One last question. Does Ahauism worship the full pantheon or just Kinich Ahau?

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 09:32, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

The way you present the Nahil is wonderful! I haven't looked where they all are exactly but the general areas that needed to be covered were done. And Otot'i sounds realistic for Hawai'i's name. I can say I'm a fan of the name.

Latitude and longitude in the Roman Empire would be measured from Rome and the Equateur but the Maya are sufficiently independent to measure it from a place of their own. Not their capital I would think but from the city of Mayapan, located at OTL Calak'mul. That doesn't need to be accounted for by the coordinates you write. The point is for these articles to be read and that would confuse matters. I like the addition of coordinates so much though that I will probably at them to some of the other articles.

However, I don't care very much for the flag. The purple and gold is nice but the Conglomerate flag inside seems to take up too much space and the writing - though I like the motto - is too big and plainly styled. Also, why are they using a Latin alphabet? The improvement I would think makes sense is to use a blocky writing style, where the Latin alphabet is almost unrecognizable, shrink the Conglomerate flag, change the Con. flag's yellow to the same color as the gold you're using (I was thinking of making the original flag more gold than yellow) and move the compass rose to a position that is equidistant from the upper and right walls of the flag but not too far in the corner. If you're not the type to make flags, I'll gladly take over that part of the page for you.

What is the significance of the motto? I like it and I think it has a nice sentiment, but I'm thinking he's addressing his troops, in which case he would say 'friends', so I'm not totally clear on that part.

Ahauism is comparable to the Egyptian religion of Akhenaten and is a monotheistic religion, so the pantheon is taken by Maya priests to represent aspects of their one god, Kinich Ahau. These aspects have significantly lost significance and mention in ceremonies as the people aclimatized to monotheism and as Roman theological ideas leaked into the Conglomerate.

That's a basic summary of the Maya's religious shift. Red VS Blue (talk) 13:24, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Could you sort the flag please, I only have an archaic version of paint. :(

The motto was something I came up with on the spur of the moment, a trusted general to his Ajaw, when facing the Romans, possibly the first battle the maya win not using fire boats. That is why it is friend.

Forgive me for being thick, but what occupies the space of otl canada?

Sao Tome is named after Sait Thomas. I will provisionaly call it Kinich Mayapan. Other possiblities if it's not called somethig else include naming it after one of the Hero Twins, though this may cause confusion with the carrier classes. Coos Bay I am provisionaly naming Koos Holaa. Koos is a variant spelling of Coos used in early otl and sounds like mayan. No one is sure of the meaning. I don't know bay, so I went for one of a few words for seaport.

I won't be able to edit from the 25 until August the 2nd, I apologise for this in advance.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 11:27, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I will get to the flag sometime this week.

Ah, that's even better once it makes sense.

Canada is controlled by the United Chiefdoms of Columbia, the Maya's old punching bag, and Quebec is owned by the Republic of Danemarc. The former's border with the Conglomerate is almost perfectly contiguous to the OTL Canada-USA border. Now that you mention it, I don't label maps so there could easily be confusion lol

Is there a diminutive suffix or prefix for Nahuatl or the Mayan language? It might make sense that they would name the island of Sao Tome after one of their States. As for the bay, you can write the translation into english, which would obviously include the "name" part that the Maya gave it.

Thank you for telling me in advance. And don't worry about it. I've been writing for years, there's absolutely no urgency in getting these pages done. Red VS Blue (talk) 12:41, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Future of Superpowers
Will you put in new events in the Superpowers TL? --RandomWriterGuy (talk) 00:54, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

The timeline hasn't reached the year 2000 AD and I have plans for the last 12 years, so yes there will be new events. But my focus is on the detailed timeline for the moment. Red VS Blue (talk) 12:30, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Slight problem...
Whilst researching wars for the Colonida I discovered a rather large problem in the Treaty. I know the Maya surrendered unconditionaly, but Yucatan? The Romans would need two men for every one maya to control it! All right it's not the capital, but it's the heartland. It's like the maya taking, say, Greece. You would have riots every day! The only way I can think of the Romans plausibly getting away with it is by taking the Ajaw hostage or becoming engadged in a long running guerrillia war. Mayhap try taking Hawaii, as this would cripple the military. Sorry if this seems rantish, but I was slightly shocked. David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 09:18, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

As it stands, Rome only holds the Yucatan for two years. And rather than being an occupation it's one step in a push to the capital, Teotihuacan. If very little time and men are wasted in occupying Yucatan cities then the legionaries would not be forced to deal with riots and unrest. They could simply keep moving forward and supply themselves by ship along the coast. That's what I had in mind anyway.

Does that still seem implausible? Red VS Blue (talk) 11:59, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Just wondering
hi im new to this wiki but I would like to say this is great. but im wondering why you chose to stop your detailed history at the 200 years war or are you still working on it.Keeponswimmin (talk) 05:24, August 5, 2012 (UTC)U MAD BRO

The detailed timeline is still being written but I'm rewriting the pages that already exist before expanding it. It will be a while before I get there. Red VS Blue (talk) 23:29, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

My upmost and sincere apologies.
As can be noted by my unfortunate absence these past few days something has come up. This something will last for an irritatingly long period of two to three years. Rest assured that when I can update/contribute I will.

I will come back.

The above is copy of my explanation to the community regarding my inability to post as often as is generaly desired. But for you this will not do. You are the one who entrusted me with my first major peice and has treated me as an equal from the start. For this I thank you. Rest assured that when I can get to this site my priority will be the Colonida page. I will finish it.

Ka’ka’te ucben in laak,

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 17:20, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Been quite a while!
Wow, it's been a while since I've read Superpowers, but when I re-read it again, I have only a few questions. And my main one is, what is the status of Antarctica? Considering the nature of the story, I really cannot tell if it were divided, or conquered, or established as a scientific research area like OTL?

Thanks.

rcox1995

Indeed, quite a while. Good to see you're still kicking around here.

Antarctica is something I haven't given much thought in Superpowers so that's something I don't think I can answer. I need to look into the circumstances in which Antarctica was moved into in reality and compare it to the circumstances of the timeline. Red VS Blue (talk) 16:18, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, alright. I was just asking, because it is something that can certainly affect the whole timeline and dominance of the world as well. But I understand. And if you need any help with any of the articles, let me know, because I am more than willing to help.

rcox1995

452-485 CE (Superpowers)
Why did you undo my spelling corrections?

EoGuy (talk) 15:56, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

The undo screen is easier to fix improper corrections so I thought I'd use it this time. To your credit, I wasn't so much fixing a bad correction as much as changing one of the sentences you fixed, namely you made "When inquired upon.." into "When inquired..", which I thought was improper grammar, but since my original clause was awkward I changed it to "When asked..". I added one of your corrections but, in my haste, forgot the others.

Keep up the good work! There may be the odd time that I need to fix "corrections" of Latin words or put numerical digits back where I intended, but your edits have certainly helped.

Red VS Blue (talk) 21:14, January 21, 2013 (UTC) </li>

Congratulations, Red VS Blue


You are the winner of the 2013 Stirling Lifetime Achievement Award in the Writer Category. Congrats! Lordganon (talk) 13:35, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Superpowers
I was just wondering how you made your timeline? Did you start in the TL's modern day, and work back, or did you work up from the POD's?

Canuck2012 (talk) 16:43, March 30, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

I worked from the PODs. I don't think it's possible to make a remotely plausible timeline by working backwards, unless the POD is extremely close to the present (~2000's).

In essence, I wrote a skeleton timeline (one event every 3-5 years) till the 1900's then wrote several yearly events for the modern era. With this, I built an outline of the modern world then worked in and around the timeline itself filling out detail after detail after detail all over the place. Then I started writing a detailed timeline starting from the original POD. That is what I did. Red VS Blue (talk) 00:24, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

That's a very interesting way to do it. So did you write it out on paper first, or did you work on it here on the wiki? Was it first classified as ASB before you had it all sorted?

Canuck2012 (talk) 18:40, April 1, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Nope. What got posted was unplanned, unprepared and done on the fly. I've since edited each page heavily but the original written copy wasn't even proofread. I have a rather ad hoc style of writing.

Well, I can confidently say there was nothing on it which merited the ASB moniker. Indeed, Alien Space Bats were mostly unheard of to me until some of the more absurd timelines showed up on my news feed. A timeline that is constructed in a reasonable manner is unlikely to fall under ASB, even in the early stages. You may want to rethink the premise if you have a timeline being classified as ASB. That's how I see it anyway.

Red VS Blue (talk) 19:51, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining it. On a completely different note, who is the person in the painting?

Canuck2012 (talk) 23:16, April 6, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

No problem, I'm always happy to answer reasonable questions. If you mean my profile picture, then the man in the picture is Denis Diderot, one of the primary authors of the first Encyclopedia. Red VS Blue (talk) 01:36, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Hey!
A member of the old tier who is still here, my hello. I am not sure if I have ever talked to the great Red before, yet like everyone else - I have read your timeline (took me a few hours, but what the hell). Great TL (as you probably know yourself).

What I am here to ask you is for help. I saw your comments on the blogpost, and you seem to understand military tactics and strategy very well. It would be an honour if you would help me with battles and wars in my TL once I reach that stage.

Since you also seem to understand tech well, I wanted to ask about Space tech for my TL. Would it be possible for space technology to develop faster with a stronger India and eventually less funding into the military and more into Space programs? I plan to have the world having military hardware which is behind OTL, yet having created using artificial gravity using electro-magnetic fields and having colonies on Mars - as they are ahead in Space tech. Would this be possible?

Your response on the matter would be much appreciated. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:14, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about "great" but "old" is accurate enough, where my membership is concerned at least. Indeed, I think this is the first time we've exchanged messages.

I'm no expert on military strategy but I can lend assistance in whatever way I can. At the very least, I think I have a good eye for what it plausible and realistic.

Technology is more my area. I feel much more confident dishing out advice about alternate technology.

Hmm, given that the United States and Soviet Russia drove the Space Race I don't see how India could contribute to it by any variation in its history. It would have to evolve into a developed country at the same rate as the European powers. I'm unfortunately not familiar enough with early modern history to know exactly what would be required. I think that by looking at what brought the downfall of the Ottoman Empire, and seeing what steps took it from world superpower to the "sick man of Europe", would provide a model for what India would need to escape to achieve the level of a European great power.

Furthermore, I can't see how military technology could not evolve in parallel to space age technology. Missiles and rockets go hand-in-hand. No civilization would develop rockets for space travel without using them as weapons. Hell, the Mysoreans invented missiles in the 18th century, long before rockets would be considered as vehicles for achieving aerial flight. So missiles can't be avoided. Jets might not get invented for a long time if there were some disastrous accidents in their early use but that might also discourage space flight.

Tanks are an obvious invention once motor technology is sufficient to move heavy land vehicles. I think the only place you could avoid a serious development in military technology is for nuclear weapons not to be invented. This would unfortunately require retardation of advances in particle physics. No fission reactors, no solid-state drives, no lasers, no ion propulsion, no nanotechnology and no quantum mechanical theories. Admittedly, this isn't an unreasonable turn of events since we have quantum mechanics early than our level of technology would suggest we would develop the theory. It's unusual, I think, for theory to overtake practice in a science.

I'm not sure this bodes well for the colonization of Mars. That sort of mission is an arduous undertaking, requiring advances in computer, material and genetic technologies which would likely not exist without particle physics.

Red VS Blue (talk) 14:15, April 3, 2013 (UTC)



Great is no overstatement, lol.

Well, I wanted nukes on the planet - yet in the way that their peak numbers have already been achieved. Here is what I meant by a largened India (in hindsight that might have been an understatement). "India" is acutally the Union of Hindustani Republics (Hindustani Raj), a bunch of republics in a Federation under a constitutional monarchy. Blue is the United Commonwealth, Orange the Dutch Commonwealth and Black is Germany (question marks means unsure) and Red is (of course) Russia.

Rockets in Mysore! You have just given me an invention which could give the Hindustani Raj an edge!

Well, India (and China) have been a hotbed of scientific research too - if I am correct. It is that the last successful empire in India was the Mughal one, and they did not last long enough for the country to make an impact in the scientific world. Here, Hindustan (India) is able to make an impact as: one - the are united; two - they have the resources to do so; three - all the Rajas would encourage scientific development and four - they last into the modern age (being some 450 years old).

If I am not wrong, at 1500s, the level of tech between Europe and Asia was about the same, before the Europeans established colonies, and became more untied so a better environment for science was created. Here, I am hoping that the "modern" outlook of the early Rajas would encourage scientific development and help ensure that they would become a modern superpower.

In hindsight, that thing about the military might have been gibberish. I understand that for space tech to develop, we would need military tech to develop too. So lets cross out that point. New question. Would an India which is a hotbed of science be able to drive tech further in the future (compared to OTL) as European powers compete with it (and maybe China, I haven't worked out what's going to happen to the state) and ensure that we move into Space exploration quicker?

Thank you for your help so far. More would be appreciated, lol. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:42, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

How is there a peak number of nuclear weapons? There can (almost) always be more.

I see, I like Hindustan, that realistically follows your POD but I'm unsure about Germany and the United Commonwealth. Russia already existed at the POD and it is almost inevitable, without a serious change in China, for it to grow to its present size from there (though the exact borders would likely change). Germany, however, far from being inevitable resulted from complex consequences of the Napoleonic Wars. If it weren't for the Congress of Vienna it is unlikely that Germany would unify the way it did. South Germans could very easily have joined Austria, they could have remained fragmented like the Dutch-Wallonie region or been divided geographically into Poland, Prussia, France and Austria. I'm not sure how realistic the emergence of Germany is after your POD.

My uncertainty over the United Commonwealth depends on its history. I'm not sure how likely a mighty British Empire is from the 16th century. It was on the way up but France or Spain could have ended up as the superpower of Europe in its stead.

Yes, they designed rockets with swords at the tip in the 18th century. They were incredibly effective against the British.

Well, whether or not India could become a modern developed country is an interesting problem. It hasn't, which is an a posteriori reason to be skeptical of this, but doesn't make it impossible. What is weird on a theoretical level is its massive population. There are inherent bureaucratic and logistic problems in managing a large populace and there seem to be diminishing returns (higher costs per person) for government social programs with increasing population. We can see this from comparisons between Finland, Canada, the US and even China.

Nevertheless, there should be more opportunities for genius to flourish with a large population and a greater diversity of scientific work could be performed in a country with more scientists (if number of scientists is proportional to population for countries of the same initial technology level). But India will have to compete with two aspects of Europe: (1) competition between small states breeds technological advances, at least in the military and (2) Europe has a rich "Republic of Letters", a network of correspondence for natural philosophers as they critique each others work and expand on prevalent knowledge. These are probably the most potent forces that drove the development of European technology and science.

Wise choice. I'm not sure is the most honest answer. It depends on whether or not India can engage in correspondence with Europe and feels compelled to rapidly seek inventive solutions to military problems in the face of European colonialism. This might mean that India advances fast enough not to fall behind Europe but not any faster than the Europeans themselves. As we start looking at modern science, advancements become incredibly complex for a historian of science. Something like Maxwell's Equations and Faraday's principles, perhaps the most significant advances of the pre-20th century, was a stroke of genius. I'd need to give it more thought before I could give a confident answer on whether adding another technologically competitive country, even one as large as India, would make a difference in the global rate of advancement.

This is certainly an interesting scenario. I'm happy to help when I have the time.

Red VS Blue (talk) 19:26, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Tbh, I was hoping India to be at par with the west. Not being ahead is completely fine by me. You might also want to have a look at this to see where all these ideas are coming from, lol.

Lets start with the Brits (and Germans). So, they will still go on to establish their American colonies and have the 7 year war with the French. Yet they will give the French all their debt through the treaty signed in the end (as well as aquire Quebec and Louisiana), allowing the Brits not to tax the American colonies harshly. They will tax Quebec harshly and that will lead to a rebellion crushed.

Now as the Brits never get a colony established in India, they will have to focus more on their resources and their American (and later on Australian and African) colonies. As a result, they invest more in their African colonies, and raise black colonial armies (as they have no Indians here). This leads to a certain level of respect for the blacks early on, and racism becomes much less accepted in the modern world (it is 40 years ahead of us in this context).

The Germans. Well, I plan on having the Triple Alliance (in 1788) still exist and not getting destroyed. This would mean that the Brits would be called into every Prussian or Dutch war. Problematic in the short run, but very useful in the long run. So the Prussians would expand quicker (with British aid), while the French won't get involved as they pay off the debts. Later on, I'll have matters happen in such a way that the Austrians run out of male heirs, and the female one marries the Prussian king, bringing the two states into a personal union. Then I'll have the Hungarians break away (somehow) and get a female on the British throne (so the union between Britain and Hanover is broken).

The Dutch. I plan on having the southern states Protestant too (to start off with) and the Dutch creating a national identity for themselves so that France or Spain can never make the southern states rebel away. They will then get into the colonisation act too, and make colonies in Africa. Because the Dutch would be so heavy on the idea of a national identity, they would spread the idea to their colonies and would be the first ones to create a "commonwealth".

I was planning to have an Indian discover the force of gravity. I see what you mean by the Republic of Letters. I plan on having its Indian counter-part through competition. More population breeds more competition. When scientists publish their work, others would quickly evaluate it and expand on it. And its not like the west suddenly becomes dumb. They will have many of the same ideas and theories already "discovered". However, as the world becomes closer (mid-1850s onward), the two sides of the world begin to compete. This is how I had planned to speed up world development.

The Indians would indeed feel a need to develop military tech. If you look at it one way, the Europeans see vast swaths of land under the Indians, and some might decide to invade. However, the Raj would resist in full, and this would breed competition too as the Indians looked to arm and defend themselves better than the Europeans so that they can still exist as a nation.

(Btw, the map is of the modern world, even though you probably know)

Thank you for all the help you have given me so far, it has been insightful. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:13, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Those answers about the other countries are satisfying though I admit to not knowing enough about their histories to say if they are plausible.

As for the development of India, I think I can contribute a few points.

For an Indian to formulate a Universal Law of Gravitation (people were obviously aware of gravity as a force but the discovery of the mathematical relationship between mass, force strength and radius was a stroke of genius) he would need access to Kepler's, Galileo's and Hooke's work. Or else he'd need to independently develop most of their relevant works (Kepler's Laws of planetary bodies, Galileo's experiments with inclined planes and falling objects, Hooke's theories on gravity) to formulate his gravitational theory. The work of Robert Hooke is especially important since the theory of universal gravitation requires several things: 1. application to all objects - celestial and terrestrial, 2. inverse square law for F with distance and 3. a mechanism, either wrongfully claiming an aether propagates the force or simply admitting action at a distance. Furthermore, I can't imagine the development of a theory of gravitation not coming after the invention of calculus but I suppose the essential tenants are possible without calculus, it would just be hard to follow through its consequences by actually computing planetary motion.

I like the idea of an Indian discovering gravity since such an intellectual event would undoubtedly catch the attention of the whole of academic Europe. While the discovery is functionally useless in practical applications, it is an enormous leap forward in science and would bring eternal fame to its discoverer. This could actually open up correspondence between European and Indian scientists.

Anyway, I recommend reading a few articles on the Enlightenment and Renaissance. That should give you an idea of what forces drive the scientific development of countries.

Once you establish that India is on par with European natural philosophy (say by the late 1600's if they're beating them to universal gravitation) it could realistically get ahead of Europe. There are half as many Europeans as Indians. While, as I mentioned, this hinders economic development, it means there will be that many more intellectuals once the nations are at the same level of technology.

Sorry that this is one of my less structured responses. I put a shorter time constraint on myself for writing this. Red VS Blue (talk) 02:06, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it does really matter if India stagnates a bit economically at first, they will have time to work at that.

Wikipedia is quite cumbersome, lol, but I'll try to read up on those topics. Robert Hooke, I haven't heard his name much, but it is quite interesting what he did (maybe London might be built on a grid-system in TTL ;)

Would it be at all plausible for him [Robert Hooke] to jump on a boat, sail East and try his hand in earning fame in the Raja's court? Cause he didn't really earn so much fame due to the fact of other jealous intellectuals (you would know this, lol). This would mean that the first Indian cities could be build on a grid system, and all his theories and equations would fall into Indian scientists' hands (killing two birds with one stone?). This would mean when an Indian discovers gravity, he would already have one of the three bases "done" for him, arguably the most important one.

I wanted some other Indian guy to discover calculus, but not know what he made it for. So basically, the Indian guy who discovers gravity will actually be in Newton's league as he will use calculus and the three bases (two of which he makes up) to make up his theory.

I think I might be able to make the intellecual level decrease once some European power invades the Raj. I do wonder how effective those sword-tipped rockets would be against an European army when mass produced and put in the best position (to do the most damage). Could Spain invade the Raj? I am uncertain about the future of the Philippines so this might be a good step forward, although they would invade in the 1750s if it is plausible.

Less structured? Your explanations are by far enough, lol. Thank you again. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:58, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Editing
(lol Eo, I appreciate what you're doing but please avoid editing foreign words and making changes for stylistic reasons (like capitalizing "empire".)

I try not to change foreign words.

There are times when the word "empire" SHOULD be capitalized but perhaps I go overboard by doing a "global replace."

I'm like the English professor in the Men's Room. I don't write on the walls. I just correct the spelling and grammar.EoGuy (talk) 20:42, April 19, 2013 (UTC)