Talk:Scotland says "Yes"/Archive 1

 Some is from or inspired by  thisBryce3  ( talk ) 20:57, December 20, 2015 (UTC)

A small(ish) majority said no - 55%. Please alter this in the opening paragraph. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:40, December 22, 2015 (UTC)

This is a very interesting idea. Keep it up! Victor Troska (talk) 20:33, December 22, 2015 (UTC)

@Imp - done so - thanks.

Thank you Victor. I'm hoping to do some in depth-anaylsis of the politics of the UK, as well as butterfly effects. I'm thinking at the moment that, for thhe 2016 General Election, as many people will have lost faith will the Tory Government for failing to keep the union together (though it didn't lead the campaign), for the Tory Vote being split between UKIP and the Lib Dems, and perhaps also some of the Labour vote going to Lib Dems, resulting in either a Labour Majority or Labour-Lib Dem Coalition. Scottish poltics, however, I will need some help with. And with the Spanish-Catalan and Russian-Ukrainian off-shoots from this. If anyone is interested in helping i'd be really greatfuly and blimey I do ramble on a bit don;t I.... Bryce3 (talk) 21:44, December 22, 2015 (UTC)

@Bryce3 - Your ideas are very good. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Scottish politics to help you there. It's likely a successful secession by Scotland could energize secessionist movements worldwide (Quebec, Catalonia etc.), and pave the way for further break ups. Victor Troska (talk) 16:28, December 23, 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I am planning (as you can see from the timeline) for Catalan and Basque independence. An idea i've had before is for succesionalist movement in China resulting in a civil war, but i'm unsure whether to incorporate it into this timeline, or whether it would dominate it too much - I feel the latter, and so probably will put it in a seperate timeline later on.

After Catalonia and Basque, i'm going to focus on Ukraine and Quebec, and then am thinking some of these: Kurdistan (quite possible due to current war); Cascadia (not sure... seems to be some following, but there are distinct differences between Canadian area and American one - would Queen still be HoS?); Caledonia; Greenland (though may still be fairly reliant?); Réunion. But not sure. I have a feeling if Catalonia goes and Basque does too, it may cause more independence movements in Spain (e.g. Canaries).

Any thoughts? If anyone could help with any of this that'd be brilliant. And again, sorry for the wafflings - I sort of have ideas and plonk them down without any sort of structure :D. Bryce3 (talk) 16:42, December 23, 2015 (UTC)

Hi
Hi, as a newcomer here, but regular reader of this TL, I must praise this as a great effort? My question is, is there a EU Referendum is this TL, and also when does Scotland and these new independent nations enter the Eurovision?MatthewFirth1 (talk) 17:09, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Hello there matt - thank you very much :) that's really nice to hear. In the TL there is currently a Labour-Lib Dem coalition government, which would most probably not have had to pledge an EU referendum. However, either late 2016 or early 2017 the coalition is going to collapse (see below), and a new Tory-UKIP coalition will be voted in. Without getting too political, the further-right members of this government will force an EU referendum, which could easily go either way with the economic crisis. Similarly this economic decay could possibly allow a US Trump presidentalship, though again we're not sure yet.

That is a good point, and I will try and to incorporate Eurovision in -  we're already expanding sports in the TL, so that may be a good addition - if you have any thoughts on that or anything else in the TL, feel free to contribute, or if you just have a few ideas, put them here under a new section or on my talk page. Thanks again :) Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 18:02, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Very good Bryce, but I'm unsure wheither Ukraine would actually win the 2016 Eurovision in this TL. All I know is that Catalonia would send an entry that OTL was in the Spanish National final. Anyone have any suggestions? MatthewFirth1 (talk) 15:32, May 18, 2016 (UTC) Thanks. I don't think the winner would be any different, but there may be different entrants. We were discussing this, and think maybe Scotland and Catalonia would send teams, but not Padania or the Basque. We're currently trying to find possible people, but don't hesitate to have a look yourself :)

Map wrong
The map is wrong, see on the maps Col. James Hsu (talk) 28 December, 2015, 22:17

ah sorry - ill try, unless you can?Bryce3 (talk) 21:29, December 28, 2015 (UTC)

Is it better now?Bryce3 (talk) 21:34, December 28, 2015 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I've made a new template for this so put this on SSY pages - link as template, rather than just copying and pasting, so it's linked. Bryce3 (talk) 00:10, December 30, 2015 (UTC)

Contributions
<p style="font-weight:normal;">I would like to help with this TL.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Thanks,

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Awesome history 28 (talk) 14:52, January 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">PS: Please redirect it if I put this in the wrong place.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hi - that's great - what would you like to help with? If  you like we can go on the wikia chat to discuss Bryce3 (talk) 14:57, January 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I would like to do the Isle of Man and Welsh pages and a few others when I've completed them. I don't really mind where we discuss this but if I see you on chat then we can talk about it.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Thanks,

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Awesome history 28 (talk) 20:05, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Sounds good - i'll be abe to go on the chat at the weekend, but if you want to make a start now Bryce3 (talk) 22:55, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

Where next?
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Does anyone have any ideas of where to go next? We need to expand thee current articles first, of course. However, the Spanish Collapse Crisis needs the latest bits expanding, and Iraqi Civil War needs to go somewhere. Anything happening in the Ukraine? Ill make a page for Ukraine, Russia, War, etc., and see after that. Bryce3 (talk) 10:58, January 25, 2016 (UTC)

Middle Eastern Conflicts
<p style="font-weight:normal;">It looks like there's a possibility of a cease fire between the two factions  in the Syrian Civil War in OTL - if this goes ahead in ATL, we will then have a very successful united front against Da'esh... thoughts?Bryce3 (talk) 10:06, February 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I think can be make a peace between the Syrian Rebels and the Government for unite the force against ISIS, with the support of the NATO, Russia, Padania, Scotland, Kurdistan and others ISIS will no existed Col. James Hsu 21:15, 14/02/2016

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Me and Person were discussing this, and while that is possible, it is also possibly more likely that the govt. forces will defeat the rebels, whereas I was hoping for a scenario in which Syria was split into two. However, possibly the govt. will beat up the Rebels so much, that the agree to work with the govt. on the condition that Assad's powers are limited. Bryce3 (talk) 20:37, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And i think after the war the Syrian need decide if they want Assad or not, so elections. I think can possible make a peace  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_peace_talks_on_Syria_(2016) Col. James Hsu 21:52, 14/02/2016

Next Movements
<p style="font-weight:normal;">I found this, and will shortly write below the most likely which could fit into here in the next coupla years - does anyone else have feasible (attempts at) independence?Bryce3 (talk) 22:43, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I think Bougainville or New Caledonia will probably be the big ones. I don't see Veneto gaining indepdence from Padagina. I also think that West Papua could join Papua New Guinea instead of becoming a independent country and the Faroe Islands would likely stay in Denmark. HawkAussie (Talk)  23:25, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Yep -  Defintely Bougainville and New Caledonia within the next coupla years, and perhaps  perhaps we should expand Crimea and New Russia. Greenland as well quite possibly, but not yet - once it has got a developed a really good economy. Concerning these, in 2017 in ATL there's going to be a collapse on the Chinese Economy, which, as well as helping Chinese seperatists, it could have global repurcussion, and im intending on using it as a plot-device for more. If you see the Talk:Catalonia, then thhere's a temprorary plan for a second Spanish Collapse Crisis, as well as moving towards other areas.Bryce3 (talk) 10:57, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I think Corse will be join Italy, or be indipendence, many Corsican people want be Italian or Indipendent. Veneto is not of see now, why they are indipendence under the Padania. But i think maybe Somaliland or others areas in Africa can be indipendence or fully reconized country, and Galicia can be part of Portugal. Col. James Hsu 24/02/2016 (UTC)

Next UK General Election, and Federalism
<p style="font-weight:normal;">I intend for the next general election to be in 2020, unless, harking back to the Chinese Economy Collapse Plot Device, one is called earlier. I'd like to plan a basic thing in advance, and was wondering what people think - if the economy goes completely ugh, i doubt people will trust either main party, and so we'll see another coalition of some sort (lib-lab, con-lab or even blukip, if we really want to go overboard we could see a libdem-lead government...). however, with the departure of scotland, i can see a new topic being "english votes for english laws" and english devolution. we could, therefore, have parties promising to make the UK more federal (England, Wales, North Ireland). Alternatively, and I really like this, we could have smaller UK regions, based on here - this is partly to do with population sizes. what does everyone think? Bryce3 (talk) 18:37, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Seems a good idea Bryce Col. James Hsu

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Good good :) - i quite like the flags used as well in the link, though on my PC i edited a few differenlyBryce3 (talk) 17:23, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Final Act of Union
<p style="font-weight:normal;">I was considering making a page on the final Act of the United Kingdom, seperating the UK and Scotland - what would be a good name for the page?Bryce3 (talk) 11:53, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Act of Indipendence. User:Col. James Hsu

Bougainville
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bougainville has been promised a referendum before 2020 - I intend for Papau New Guinea to announce there will be one this year, to be held in 2018. Any thoughts on this?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Well is a good idea. So Papua Nuova Guinea will be become indipendence User:Col. James Hsu

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Realism?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The idea of Northern Italy turning independent a year after Scotland seems kinda ASB to me. There would probably be moves for more independece, but not as fast as you said.

Belgium
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello. MustacheKhan here. I would like to add a section to the timeline covering Belgium. As you may know, Belgium is embroiled in some ethnic issues. Well, I would like to write a section of the timeline in which Belgium splits into Flanders and Walloonia, with Brussels in a Berlin Wall-style separation. Or just an independent country in which the EU is centered, similar to the Vatican or the Hague.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I for one like the second theory better.

<p style="font-weight:normal;"> Hi MustacheKhan - I think we did have some discussion about this issue, and decided for now it would not succeed. I personally don't really see how independence movements on a capital city can work. However, if both the North and South were to both be in favour of seperating, then i do think this could happen - mayhaps from around late 2015/ early 2016 the movement could indeed start to gain momentum. I do not, however, think it will come to fruitation until late 2016 or even 2017. However, if you want to go ahead and make pages for them then please do go ahead and we'll have a look - put a link on my and the main SSY talk pages. Thanks, Bryce3 (talk) 18:51, March 21, 2016 (UTC)

Proposed Future of the Timeline - spoilers!
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Here's my plan for the future of SSY:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2016 - By late 2016 ISIL has essentially been defeated, with few pockets. Foreign troops withdraw, and Kurdistan starts to stablisie. By December more Kurdish Turkish provinces have joined officially.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2017 - Chinese economy collapses, mass protests around China. Taiwan, East Turkemenistan, Manchuria and Inner Mongolia all declare independence, starting a second civil war. Taiwan, while originally declaring war on them in an attempt to retain legitimacy, works with the rebel groups and with US and NATO support it invades the mainland. Hong Kong also throws out the pro-Beijing government, and starts to move towards the Commonwealth, prompting the question as to whether it should become a BOT, independent, or some other arrangement.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Meanwhile this collapse has global repurcussions, plummeting the Earth into the worst economic disaster since the Wall Street Crash. In both the UK and Scotland the respective Labour-Lib Dem and SNP governments collapse under strain, prompting new general elections.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">

<p style="font-weight:normal;">In Spain the economic crisis prompts more areas to declare independence - the start of the Second Spanish Collapse Crisis (or third civil war). In the meantime, the Kurdish provinces in Turkey have all successfuly ceded and are being integrated, while Da'esh is nothing but a few bandit groups.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">A Tory-UKIP coalition is formed in the UK, promising greater devolution to English regions, as well as an EU referendum. Tories are far from having majority, and are very much at the mercy of UKIP. Meanwhile another SNP government is delievered in Scotland, though not with such a great majority.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">With the public eye away, Puting annexes more parts of the Ukraine under the new Novo Russia Republic

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2018 - Kurdistan solidifies as an independent state and is accepted into the UN. Padania, with the reccession, is taking even more far-right policies, alienating much of Europe, while moving towards Russia. Italian-Russian relations sour.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">British government proposes referendum on english devolution. Additionally, referenda are to be held in the Overseas Territories to define theyr'e status - autonamous areas of the uk (sending MPs to parliament), staying the same, or becoming independent. Most vote to become 'BATs', though some go independent, or join nearby countries.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">PRC loses much land to rebels, and Taiwanese troops land in South China. North Korea starts escallating the situation, while Indian troops capture the Kashmir province and bolster Tibetan troops. Meanwhile Spain looses more land to rebels. Morocco offers to mediate.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2019 - Russia annexes the Eastern-most half of the Ukraine, leaving the West as a rump-state, which joins NATO and the EU. However, more and more troops are building up on the Russian border with Ukraine and the Baltic states, and Belarus is moving further and further towards Russia.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And what next? Any changes I could make? Longer time frame? Please let me know below Bryce3 (talk) 10:09, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2020 - After the political position of the Padania and their racist policy again the southern Italians and the Arabic a civil war started. Between the Federal government forces and the rebels under the banner of the National Liberation Committee (Comitato di Liberazione Nazionale), lead by Neofascist, Nationalist, Communist and Democratic opponents at the Padania, after a small battle between the Padanian Federal Army and the Arm of the Carabinieri for a shooting of a execution of a political refugees in Italian territory. Italy have support the rebels with guns and materials, and they have declare war on Padania, This have brought at the Second Italian Civil War, the Italian Army have fast forward and they have liberated all the capitals of the state of the Padania, exept for Milan and for the Lombardy who is under authoritarian control of Salvini, who have declare the Lega Nord the only legal party and it have suspond the constitution, many Italian cities in the North was liberated by himself before the arrive of the Italian Army. The 25 April of the 2021 the Lombardy was liberated and with big feasts in every part of Italy. After the capture of Salvini and the liberation of Milan it was prosecuted by the Tribunal of Rome for crime again Humanity, it woud be in jail for his rest of the life. When it was in the prison of Regina Coeli in Rome he was mysteriously founded hanged at his bed. User:Col. James Hsu (Talk), 25/02/2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Related to what James is saying, more 2020 Padania stuff:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">In the midst of the Padanian Civil War, a Venetist faction takes control of Venice declares the re-establishment of the "Most Serene Republic of Venetia." Venetians fight for control of Treviso and Trieste. By the war's end, Venetia will be recognized as independent and take the territories of Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, and the Trentino province.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">More Venice discussions and stuff to come.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 04:54, November 10, 2016 (UTC)

SSY News
<p style="font-weight:normal;">I've made the following template for the latest news which appears on the main page. If there are any events which would be important in the TL but not enough the gain worth entry into the timeline page, put it at the top of the template, and delete the oldest entry - there should be no more than 5 bullets at any one time

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 18:09, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

South China sea dispute
<p style="font-weight:normal;">With the rebellions on-going in Tibet, it is possible that Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Taiwan would grab any PRC-occupied reef or island in the South China Sea Gillan1220 (talk) 13:46, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Thanks for the suggestion Gill Col. James Hsu

British withdrawl from the EU
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello. I'd like to bring up the recent "Brexit" referendum, where Britain has jsut voted to leave the European Union. How could this affect the timeline? Would it even be butterflied away, since Cameron resigned in TTL before he called for the Brexit vote in OTL?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 20:10, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello there - yes, we have been discussing this a wee bit. In OTL the vote occurred, as i'm sure you're no doubt aware, due to the Tory Party promising it. In SSY, mainly due to the fact that focuses were elsewhere than the EU, a Labour-Liberal Democrat Coalition was formed, promising no such referendum. As such, there is no referendum in the TL - it has indeed been butterflied away. However, it is possible it could occur in the future. I hope I have answered your question, Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 21:40, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Belgium, Flanders, and Wallonia
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello, Bryce. I was looking over the nations for SSY, and to my surprise Belgium was still very much united. NOt even an article on a Belgian crisis. Belgium willprobably vanquish in OTL before 2050. I believe the secession of Flanders, and a a result the balkanization of Belgium, would be definitely sped up with the large chain of successful independence movements in this timeline. I will do my best to research Belgium and its potential collapse, so could you please consider adding me to the team to work on Belgium? Thanks for taking the time to read.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 00:08, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello there :). I am afraid I am no expert in Belgian affairs, but if you think this could happen in the next few years please go ahead. We did have a discussion about this before, but nothing came of it, so I'm happy that you're interested in helping - do you want to add your name on the List of Contributors? Additionally, if you like we can contact vy email, which'd make life somewhat easier. I also had an idea.for the Belgian province of Luxembourg to join the Principality of Luxembourg. What are your thoughts on this? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 06:47, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">This could quite possibly occur if Belgium were indeed to balkanize. Its German-speaking community would probably do better in Luxembourg than in French-speaking Wallonia. Wallonia would probably be annexed by France, since it is the dominant Walloon nationalist movement, not to mention Wallonia's economy is rather weak (so it wouldn't survive as independent too long). Flanders would probably fare just fine as an independent nation with its strong economy, and may join the EU. I will still have to look into Brussels; maybe an independent city-state, or perhaps it is governed by the EU?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 18:28, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Yes, sounds good. German-speaking part could join Luxembourg or even Germany, and Wallonia could later accede to France, though not originally. I can see Brussels as some city state, heavily influenced by the EU. Possibly Brussels would be slightly larger than this. What do you think of the map? I also see you edited the Canadian page. We're currently re-thinking Quebec, as it may have happen later, but its on the back-burner for now. Feel free to expand, change dates, whatever :) Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 23:08, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I like the way the map looks; Walloon Luxembourg may indeed join Luxembourg. Thinking it over a bit, the German-speaking community may join Germany rather than Luxembourg, since Luxembourgish is more liguistically dominant in Luxembourg. I believe that Wallonia would become part of France, since it still faces economic hardships (probably wouldn't fare well independent) and the OTL movement to join France has become much stronger than the independence movement.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I edited the Canadian page to simply fix the Quebec demonym: it is Quebecois, rather than Quebecan.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 23:16, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Kewl - sounds like a plan. Flanders becomes independent, Walloon (minus Luxembourg province) joins France, Luxembourg Province joins Luxembourg proper, and the German community joins Germany. What time frame are you thinking for this? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 23:43, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I'm still pondering over the time frame; the Flemish movement is one of the strongest in OTL, so it could happen right after Scotland obtains sovereignty. I was originally thinking sometime after Quebecois independence, since the chain of independence movements will have already started. I was thinking sometime in 2015 (as shown on the Flanders page), since the chain will have been set off, and not too late hence the strong Flemish movement.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 00:08, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Just made a flag map of the Partition of Belgium.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 00:36, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">TBH, I think we're gonna post-phone the Quebec bit. However, maybe 2015 will be good. Whilst it may seem a little insensitive, I think we should try and discuss how the attrocious attacks by Da'esh on Brussels effected this TL. On a slightly liughter note, we should also decide what happens to the Monarchy of Belgium. Either it just rule the Brussels City State, Flanders, both, or neither. I can't really see the Belgian Monarchy being completely being abolished, and I see perhaps that Flanders will keep it. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 08:49, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Now, it is possible that the Brussels attacks will have been butterflied away. Indeed, it is possible that the Paris ones will have been too, but idk. Flanders should become a Monarchy I think, Brussels a Republic under Strong EU Influence (though maybe directly administred, like DC?), German part joins Germany (Belgian Province?) Luxembourg united (doubling in size) and Walloon joins France. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 10:17, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">It does indeed seem that Flanders would have the monarchy bestowed upon them; several members of the Belgian Royal family were Flemish Counts, so it is quite possible that when Belgium balkanizes, King Phillipe would become the Count of Flanders.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And yes, I was just using Quebec as a reference point. I also wonder if Alaskan and Texan independence movements would gain steam in the United States, even though these movements are still very small. I'm no expert on these movements, but I think those two states will remain in the Union; I'd say that's up to someone more knowledgable with that stuff.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 17:52, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ok, sounds good. Would he become Count or King of Flanders then? The official name of the nation would then either be County or Kingdom of Flanders. We should also adress problem of the Royal Residence. Both of the current Royal Residences are currently in Brussels, which could lead to problems. Either Brussels shares the monarchy, a special arrangement is made, or they are simply forced to relocate the royal palace out of Brussels. I suspect simply finding a new palace would be easier, but then again I doubt restrictions will be strong between Brussels and Flanders.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Quite generally all independence movements are getting greater strength, so i'd say certainly the Alaskan and Texan, and maybe even others (i.e Cascadian) could get momentum, but still not likely to suceed, at least not for a while.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Finally, those maps you made are really good - do you think you'd be able to make a map for the TL, as the current one (I made) isn't great. It wouldn't neccisarily have to include every nation, just the ones affected within the TL. Thanks Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 20:31, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">On a sporting aspect, it would effect the UEFA European Championship as Belgium qualified through to the Euros. HawkAussie (Talk)  00:52, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Its interesting just how many ramifications each little decisions has. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 09:03, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I have made a Template for Belgium now. I wasn't sure on the province names for the parts which are now German and Luxembourgish, but I chose the names Eupen and Arelerland, respectively. Eupen is the Northern part of the German Speaking community. The south is known as Belgian Eifel . I didn't think it'd be worth splitting them up, so they're united, probably then part of the state Rhineland-Palatine . I have proviousnly used the name Arelerland, but perhaps the name Ardennes , or even Belgian Province would be appropriate. TBH its all a bit confusing, so i'd like to know your opinion. Sorry if i've waffled a bit.Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 11:11, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">UPDATE: I realized that German-speaking Belgium isn't contiguous. As such, I've changed it so it is now split up into two districts. There will be a Eupen and Eifel (capital St Vith) districts, which are part of the Rhineland-Palatine. Apologies for the waffling Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 13:04, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">You bring up a good point about the Belgian/Flemish monarchy. To keep with tradition, the monarch would probably be the Count of Flanders; The Flemish would probably build a new palace in Antwerp for the Count, as the separatists would want to cut all ties with its former unity with Wallonia, and hence political traces of the union. Then again, Flanders and Brussels would probably keep strong ties.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">As for the Belgium navbox, it looks really good. One thing I would like to point out is that Arelerland may be divided further into the districts OTL Luxembourg is divided into. Also, I would be happy to create a new map for the timeline. Are we still following through with Quebec, or will that be later down the line?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 19:07, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ok - good good. My thoughts on Luxembourg were simply I wanted an over-arching name for the Belgian region. However, it seems currently the Principality is made up of three districts, so we'd want similarly sized districts for the new territory. These are the curent Administrative Regions, on the map. I have yet to work out the populations. However, the current ones could work. Do you think this are a good size? I was going to suggest barstardising some of these together, or even the ones bordering the existing Luxembourg, the population sizes seem to be equal to those of Luxembourg. As such, I propose that these five districts are created, meaning that Luxembourg would now have 8 districts. Does this sound right? I've ammended the box Again, apologies for my random though-process.... Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 08:51, July 16, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I think that splitting Belgian Luxembourg into the divisions you show is fine; it can be incorporated into the TL until some Luxembourgish territorial reform passes in the future, when you can mash and split the divisions of both East and West Luxembourg as you please.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 05:19, July 17, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Good good. I was thinking of similarly joining together the Kurdish Regions in a future reform . I'll make a start on the Luxembourg page. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 08:46, July 17, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hi - could you also do the maps for France, Waloonia and Germany? The one for France you used on your sandbox includes Luxembourg Province as part of France, so whilst i've temporarily used that, a better version would be without. Thanks, Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 21:22, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hi Orange - the date looks good - do you have any other ideas for the other dates happening? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 23:32, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ok, I'll update the maps for the timeline. Also, I was thinking that there could be ceremonies (either in regional capitals or in Paris, Luxembourg City, or Berlin) for the official transfer of regions that were formerly part of Belgium. It could be anywhere from late 2015 to early 2016.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 04:16, July 21, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Sounds good - thanks :) That sounds quite likely. Flanders will probably have a massive celebration, and Luxembourg will probs have some mild re-unification celebration. Germany probably just in the State of Rhineland-Palatine, and France in Namur. It will probably take some time for the preperations for the seperation of the state, so maybe early-mid 2016 would be good. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 09:16, July 21, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So I was thinking about the process for Belgian seperatism, and had some thoughts. The timeframe for initial discussions seems right, but I was thinking that first Flanders would hold an independence referendum. The talks would then begin, and they would agree that Flanders would be independent. It would then be decided the German Speaking Community and Walloonia would split. However,  they would not immediatly join Germany and France respectively, as further talks would have to occur with the new states. As such, once the Belgian state is dissolved, Walloonia and GSC are both in Legal Limbo (neither being independent or part of a sovereign nation). It takes a matter of two months for Germany to accept the new states, though the legal framework will take sometime. Walloon-French talks at first go well, but Luxembourg begins to press France to release the Walloon province of Luxembourg to them. As such, a referenda is held in the Waloon province (inc. Luxembourg) in general on joining France, and Walloonia says "Yes" ;) . Luxembourg pushes for a second refenda to the Luxembourg Province to join them, which also succeeds. Finally,a round 8-12 months after initial talks, we reach this state. Sorry if that's long winded, but is that good? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 18:52, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">It does seem likely that referendums would happen in Belgium. Belgian officials in Brussels may end up being pressured into holding a referendum in Flanders, since the Walloons seem to be in power at the moment. The talks during the Partition of Belgium may be influenced by a series of referendums, such as: Should Wallonia join France?; Should Brussels join Flanders?; and so on.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I'd like to bring up the topic of Flanders joining the EU. I do find this highly unlikely, since Felmish independence parties are predominantly right-wing. They probably wouldn't want open borders (especially to Syrian refugees) at the time.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (→My wall!←) 01:02, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">sound right - and yeah, I doubt Flanders'd join the EU, at least not for a few years. On a similar vane, i can imagine French-Luxembourg relations being strained during the negotiations, as the Principality wants the Province, Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 01:10, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So i've come up with some ideas on the Partition of Belgium page, provisonally (i'll check grammar etc later) - whatcha think generally? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 22:16, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

Hello
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello, I've never been on this wiki, but I think I could help.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Anyway, how has the U.S. election of 2016 been going here? If you need me to, I could think of something - although I doubt there would be major changes. But I'm new to this alternate-history thing, so I don't know - it could just be the same.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Thanks in advance!

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Username5243 (talk) 21:36, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello! Apologies for the wait, i'm afraid i've been a way for a wee while. Yes, that sounds great. We were planning, really, for the US Election to go roughly the same as OTL. The only thing to consider is that the world has a slightly worse economy, which is started to further sour, so I don't know what your thoughts on that are.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">On another note, we have had plans for Puerto Rico, now heavily economically struggling, to apply for statehood. Shortly thereafter, the North Mariana Islands and Guam issue a joint application of statehood as the State of Mariana - Puerto Rico and Mariana support each others proposals. Any thoughts on that? If you wanna, add yourself to the list of contributors on the SSY page . Thanks, Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 09:46, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Collaborative? Kurdistan?
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Is this timeline collaborative? If so, I'd like to make a few changes on Kurdistan.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hi Veteran Geezer! SSY is indeed a (semi) open TL - what ideas do you have? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 16:51, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Keep in mind that these ideas come from a Kurd.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">1. The map of Kurdistan is wrong, that map is the region where Kurds live rather than the land Kurds own, the actual Turkish Kurdistan is the territory that was given to Kurds in the treaty of Sevres: Map of Treaty of Sevres  (notice that the Kurdish territory doesn't have southern parts of Mardin, Şanlıurfa, Şırnak and Hakkari provinces). Iraqi Kurdistan and Iranian Kurdistan is also wrong, the actual Iraqi Kurdistan is the Erbil Governorate, nothing else. Iranian Kurdistan is the Kordestan Province and southern part of West Azerbaijan in Iran. Lastly.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2. I think there should be an independent Assyrian state rather than Assyrian autonomy in Kurdistan, the Assyrian state should have Mardin Province, Al-Malikiyah District & Nahiya al-Qahtaniyah and Nineveh Governorate (excluding east side of Tigris River).

<p style="font-weight:normal;">3. Barzani wouldn't be the president of (all of) Kurdistan, Barzani is a traitor who supports the Kurds' main enemies (Turkey and Iran) for over 40 years, the Kurds hate him, I don't know about Iraqi Kurds, but rest of the Kurds hate Barzani.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Veteran Geezer (talk) 03:15, September 2, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I sure will.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">1. I agree - I recently redrew the map but shall redo again. However, surely more of Iraq would be taken, similar to ? I'll change Iran.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">2. That is the eventual plan, but I don't think it'd immediatly go independent. However, over the next year I think it could go independent

<p style="font-weight:normal;">3. Fair enough - I'm not that familiar with Kurdish politics so forgive me - who do you think could become/be elected President, then?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 09:09, September 2, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">1. Yes, similar to that, that one is okay.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">3. Rojava currently has 2 presidents (co-presidents), Hediya Yousef and Mansur Selum, maybe they can be the co-presidents of Kurdistan.

Successor to the Benelux
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello. I've been starting to think about what would happen to the Benelux with the partition of Belgium. Since Brussels seems to be the direct successor to the Belgian state (kind of a "rump Belgium"), I'm quite confident Brussels would remain in the union. However, the question in mind is the status of Flanders and partitioned areas of former Wallonia. The old Luxembourg province would remain in the union, since it is with Luxembourg. I'm actually not too sure about Flanders; the Felmish Movement is mainly right-wing, but the prescence of left-wing Flemish Movements may balance it out (so Flanders may remain too right-wing to join the EU for now, but definitely wouldn't be as right-wing as Padania, since the Lega Nord is on the far right while the Flemish Movement is a variety of parties all over the political spectrum). Since it would continue to bring economic benefit to Flanders, left-wing parties may convince Flanders to remain in the...Flenebrulux? Wallonia, predominantly left-wing in both OTL and TTL, might put pressure on the French government to allow the Wallonian region into the Benelux (or whatever you want to call it), or have the whole of France outright join it. This could mean the name stays as the Benelux (or the Benefralux?), since it would almost all of former Belgium would remain in the union one way or another (poor Eupen and Eifel; chances are slim of getting in there).

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 18:00, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So i've been thinking on this topic, and I think, seeing as its an enclave, in order for Brussels to be part of Benelux, so would Flanders. Whilst I don't think (at least yet) Flanders will join the EU, I think for trading, economic and cultural reasons it may join Benelux. Wallonia cannot, as I see it, and its impractical to France to join - it will simply be Brussels, Flanders, Luxembourg and the Netherlands - Flenebrulux? Even then if Brussels comes under futher EU influence it may leave. OTL, many residents of the German-Speaking Community commute daily to the Principality of Luxembourg - whilst a border between Germany and Uber-Luxembourg will be set up, I can see eased controls for residents of the former GSC to travel into Luxembourg and vice-versa. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 22:37, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I can see something like that working out. Perhaps at Luxembourg-Germany border, citizens of Eupen and Eifel have pull out identification to prove they are from those areas. I seem to think that the Flenebrulux is the most plausible at the moment.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 18:52, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Sounds good - and yes, that's the sorta thing I was thinking. I'll start the page (with a redirect from Benelux), but as per usual feel free to edit; i'll attempt to make some bastardised flag and map, though I trust your map making skills considerably more xD Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 21:33, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So i've began the pages. I've also noticed some differences between the Timeline Page, the Partition of Belgium Page, and the seperate Flanders, Walloonia and Luxembourg pages; I guess thats due to editing one and not the others. Im gonna take the PoB page as the "real" one, and adapt the others to it. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 22:47, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

Some things we need to rethink
<p style="font-weight:normal;">So in my attempt to make a Flenebrulux map (which I completely failed at...), I began thinking how it would be very difficult considering that Luxembourg, evening though its expanded, does not connect to Luxembourg. I still think the idea of Walloon membership isn't possible, but i've begun rethinking Eupen-Malady. I'd like to draw attention to the following extract from the Wiki page :

<p style="font-weight:normal;">''...it is uncertain whether or not the German-speakers could maintain their cultural and political rights in the long term in an otherwise monolingual francophone country [...] Since the community used to be part of Germany, "reunification" seems to be the logical step to take. However, opponents to this idea argue that the autonomy of the region would be lost in Germany as much as it would in France. Therefore, and because of the strong cohesion of the regional population, some would prefer the creation of an independent state. They argue that the new country would, for example, be five times as large and more than twice as populous as Liechtenstein. Opponents say this would lead to the creation of a new undesired tax haven. The last option would be to merge with Luxembourg. Supporters of this scenario underline that many from St. Vith currently commute to Luxembourg and that a union with the rich Grand Duchy would be economically profitable.''

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I am now thinking, for those reasons, a better alternative would be either Independence, or the north joining the Netherlands and south joining Luxembourg. I've been looking, and as well as "be[ing] five times as large and more than twice as populous as Liechtenstein", it'd also be bigger than nations such as Bahrain, Singapore, Domincia and indeed Andorra., meaning it could be viable as an independent state.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Apologies for the long nature of this post, I just thought it needed covering. I have also had a seperate idea, but i'll come to that once you've given your opinion. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 12:14, September 27, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ok, so looking again, it also looks as if many in the south of the GSC speak Luxembourgish, as well as having strong economic ties. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 19:21, September 27, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I'll be looking into which movement is currently the strongest in the GSC.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 01:34, September 28, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ok - thanks. My gut feeling now is that it won't join Germany, and will either join Luxembourg or go independent. This would also mean Flenebrulux is now nearly contiguous, though even if not its not too much of a problem in the modern world. Something else i'd like to raise is the idea of a Great Netherlands. Now that Flanders is not tied to French Wallonia, I can see the movement gaining some support. However, as they are both monarchies, they may take more of a confederal route, if it all. I'm also currently researching SaarLorLux, which until today I had no idea existed....

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 13:42, September 28, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Alrighty here. I think I've got a plausible solution. People in the GSC want independence, right? But they are still highly dependent on Luxembourg. I think that the GSC would gain its independence, but due to its reliance on and close ties to Luxembourg, it would possibly be in free association with Luxembourg (similar to Micronesia and the United States). They probably wouldn't go for Luxembourgish suzerainty for the same reason they wouldn't join France or Germany. Of course, the free association part could always be scrapped, since the GSC would probably join the Flenebrulux; then again, free association seems likely due to closer ties with Luxembourg than the rest of the Low Countries.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 16:19, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Thanks - sounds good. I should imagine they'd discuss the possibility of joining Luxembourg, but after the announcement of Flenebrulux was made they'd go for independence, albeit with free association, but once Flenebrulux was properly reformed, they'd renogiatiate. I'll start a page for Eupen-Malmedy then. Only one question remains, which is whether they'd create a land corridor between the two seperated parts (probs yes), though that's not urgent.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">- Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 17:59, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ok, i've made the page and canibalised various maps by you. Tell me what you think, and feel free to edit. I think other than the question on should there be a land corridor connecting it, all major decisions are done, though more work and detail can still be done.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">One thing which could be added in the future is a merger of Wallonia and Hauts-de-France - France has rather a habit for merging regions.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">- Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 23:09, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">For the corridor: I was just looking over Google Earth for a potential corridor location, when I found some exclaves of Germany created by the Belgian-owned Vennbahn. Perhaps Berlin would be willing to relinquish these exclaves to Eupen-Malmedy, probably based on referendum.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 23:28, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Sounds good and quite possible.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">- Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 07:22, October 11, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">One minor thing - elections. Flemish, Walloon, Brussels and GSC elections were last held in 2015 - will they be called again (probably resulting in similar results), or should we leave that? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 18:36, October 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hmm... it says the actual elections were held in 2014, before the Scotland independence vote even took place.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 23:23, October 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">You're right - must have been tired xD. But even so, those elections would still be the same, but now that Belgium has broken up, would elections in the new nations/regions be called again? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 07:56, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Here is what I think would happen: Flanders would have Geert Bourgeois (who was MP before the dissolution of Belgium) as acting PM until an election is held (probably coinciding with the dates of the elections of former Belgium); this would probably be a similar case in Eupen-Malmedy. Brussels, which in a sense is the "rump Belgium," may have Charles Michel as their PM; elections arethen  held when Michel states he wishes to return to Wallonia, and resigns.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 01:32, October 26, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Sounds good - make a start. However, would Brussels not have their current MP, Rudi Vervoot, as PM? Perhaps Michel retains the office of "Prime Minister of Belgium", despite Belgium not existing, until the elections are all complete, which acts as the final dissolution of the state. On another note, i've made an attempt at a map for Flenebrulux - whatcha think?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 23:03, October 27, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hmm - how are these elections gonna turn out? I guess centre-right parties in Flanders will do better, and centre-left parties in Wallonia will do better, but otherwise similar outcomes? Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 23:43, October 27, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">On the map: it's great! You've been making maps better than I've ever made; lol. I think that the elections are going to be quite similar since it has been so recent since the breakup.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">On another note, I'd like to talk with you and Col. James Hsu about the role of Venetism in the upcoming Padanian Civil War. I'd appreciate it if you reply to the discussion there; thanks!

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 02:09, October 28, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Thanks! Tho i'm not sure about how well the borders came out xD. I've started to write on the pages, but yeah, little change, other than parties renaming themselves.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">If you wanna put a discussion below on Venice, that'd be great.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 14:50, October 28, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So i've been doing a bit of research, and it turns out that several members of the Brussels Parliament also belong to either the Flemish or French Parliaments, and several GSC Members belong to the Walloon (but not French) Parliament.... I'll see how I can make this easier...

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 16:11, October 28, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I'm slowsly getting more and more annoyed with the Belgian system.... it turns out that the Flemish Parliament is based in Brussels.... I think what we could see, therefore, is the Independent Flemish Parliament either still using the one in Brussels, or using some conference centre or something in Ghent. Sorry for all the successive messages - whatcha think...

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 08:57, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The whole Flemish Parliament thing got me confused too; I couldn't decide where to put the Flemish capital xD. They may set up something in a conference center in Ghent (historical capital of County of Flanders), since the separatist parties may want to distance themselves as far as they can from Brussels and Wallonia. Perhaps then a new Parliamentary building is constructed in Ghent.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Now, about the Parliamentary identity crisis. The simplest solution I can think of is to simply hold new elections in the new countries (and Wallonia). Perhaps the Parliamentary people start dropping out of the former Belgian government, creating the need for new elections. Similar to what would happen with Charles Michel: he could retain the title of "Prime Minister of Belgium," but then the title would be gone for good when he resigns his title to retire in Wallonia. For where these people would live in and retire too, perhaps open borders in the EU and Flenebrulux would help with that.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 18:39, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">That sounds good. I think certainly in Ghent. Concerning their building, they could build a new Building, but part of me is thinking them moving into a castle'd be quite cool. Gravensteen is a castle in the centre of Ghent, though is currently a museum about torture, so maybe not quite appropriate xD. Poeke Castle is around halfway between Ghent and Bruges, and is a state-owned attraction. Finally could be Geeraard de Duivelsteen, central Ghent, which is a currently empty state owned building. Could work. Any of those or a brand new building could work, I think :D.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">That looks about right. Whilst on the topic of the EU, recently (OTL) the Wallon parliament attempted to block an EU-Canadian trade deal, but perhaps without the problem of that, it could pass more easily. Secondly, i'm wondering whether Flanders may chose to join the EU within the next year, as it is surrounded it. Just some waffling thoughts,

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 20:42, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hmm... I'll look into some castles in Ghent; right now I seem pretty sold on the Geeraard de Duivelsteen, though.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">With the EU, Flanders could possibly join the EU this year or next. Since Flemish separatist groups (which now hold power in Flanders) are generally right-wing, but do have left-wing factions as well, Flanders could be more open to the EU. My guess is that right-wing factions may try to stop accession, but the Western world begins putting pressure on Flanders because of the whole "Padania scare," so that Flanders can't get close to Russia. Left-wing factions rejoice as Flanders first joins NATO, and then perhaps the EU perhaps anywhere from 6 to 18 months later.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 23:04, November 4, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Kk - tbh, I think Geeraad de Duivelsteen is most likely - just got a bit overexcited methinks xD. I was also thinking the Flemish Parliament Building in Brussels, which is quite large, could either become the Flemish Embassy, some sort of Museum of the Flemish History and Culture of Brussels, or perhaps both?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">For the EU-NATO thing, it may even be Right-wing factions want NATO, and Left-wing factions the EU, and so compromise? If Flanders gained independence April 2016, how abouts joining NATO sometime after October 2016, and maybe begin their accession to the EU early next year (a nice parallel, merely from a literacy context, could be for Flanders to begin accession discussions at the same time as OTL Britain is trying to leave xD).

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 00:14, November 5, 2016 (UTC)

Rojava isn't only Kurdish and new infobox
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Rojava's forces are the SDF (short for Syrian Democratic Forces) which is a coalition of Kurdish, Syrian/Arab, Assyrian, Circassian, Turkmen and Armenian militias, not just Kurdish groups, you should update the map of the Syrian Civil War and also change the belliregents tab, replace 4th list with these: <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;">Some Geezer - Click here to spread nationalism  , August , 2024 (UTC) 14:41, September 8, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello - i'm currently re-doing Kurdistan, so i'll take note of that - I try to update the map often (it doesn't update automatically when the Wikipedia one is), but oft it is out of date by a few weeks. Thanks :) Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 22:37, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

I was thinking about adding some content in the timeline
<p style="font-weight:normal;">By the way, I was thinking about adding some content in this interesting timeline. I was thinking of two things:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">One is Belarus ending up like Ukraine (one pro-Poland/West, one pro-Moscow and still led by Alexander Lukashenko).

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The other is a Manchurian separatist movement. This movement will come out from virtually nowhere and inspired by Tibetan, Uyghur, and Inner Mongolian separatists. Unlike other movements, this is a regionalist movement, one caused by neglect of industry by the central government (the Northeast Chinese region is called a rust belt), and the other due to discrimination against the native Manchus. Although they are mainy Sinicized and assimilated to the Chinese, they are still suspect in Han nationalist circles because they are known to be the founders of the last Chinese dynasty and the one where they are humiliated by the European powers and Japan, as well as Manchukuo, the satellite state founded by Japan before World War II. There will be some factions of this movement, one the regular separatists who wanted a separate Northeast China, the second wanted it to be an ethnic Manchu homeland, the third a revival of Manchukuo but with the Japanese influence removed. This might be the most violent secessionist movement in China, because it contains a huge though obsolete industrial center.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Another one is Inner Mongolian separatist movement, but they may be divided into secessionists and those who wanted Inner Mongolia to be reattached to Mongolia, like Walloon Rattachists.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I would like to know your opinion.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">General tiu (talk) 18:38, September 10, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello there - apologies for the late reply! I have to say I've had a few similar ideas about Russia absorbing Belarus. I have had ideas for further Russian annexation of Ukraine, whilst the world is distracted by Da'esh and China - perhaps even fully incorporating Novorossiya into the Federation. Only question I have is would Lukashenko be willing to give up his powers, and if so what reason would the Western bit have to stay if the government is leaving? However, I think both Ukraine and Belarus splitting would be interesting, and then the pro-Western parts of Belarus and Ukraine allying themselves, and perhaps with the Balts as a buffer against Russia.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">As for Manchuria, my plan was that, once the Chinese Civil War began, a Manchurian Republic declares independence. Russia, however, heavily funds them, and even sends in troops, once it appears that the PRC is collapsing. Indeed, I think Russia would want to have some access to the Chinese markets, and has indeed previously tried to reach the Yellow Sea.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">If you'd like to contribute, add your name under the list of contributors on the main page - i'm happy to give you almost free reign on Russia, and contributions to Manchuria. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 22:37, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Another Tale of Independence: Venice
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hello, Bryce. After doing a bit of research on Venice for TBAC, the fact that Venice is part of the Padania in TTL crossed my mind. I started to do research on Venetian nationalism (or Venetism, as they call it), and I found that even in OTL, the Venetian independence vote was gaining steam. Lega Veneto, a branch of Lega Nord, is one of the dominant political parties in Venice, though there are some populat left-wing factions as well. The more left-wing factions may start to gain support in the region of Veneto, denouncing Padania's neo-fascist actions. Venetism seems a much more popular option in Venice than joining the Padania, so I was thinking: Venice may secede from Padania. Some Venetist parties want to include regions culturally tied to Venice, such as Friuli-Venezia Giulia (which would be cut off from the rest of Padania if Veneto splits off) and Trentino. I think that Padania could possibly at first refuse a referendum in exclusively in Veneto, but are eventually pressured (either from the people or the international community) to hold referendums in Veneto. The referendum in Veneto passes, and a subsequent referendum is held in Friuli-Venezia Giulia; I'm guessing a "Yes" vote, since it would be cut off from the rest of Padania otherwise, and it has strong cultural ties to Venice. Talks between Padania and Veneto begin, and by the end of it the Most Serene Republic of Venice is re-established. Being culturally linked to Venice, Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol (or maybe just the province of Trentino) would vote in favor of joining as well, either before or after independence. These are just my ideas for what could happen; it might need some polishing. I was thinking it could happen sometime this year, could unfold live (like Hong Kong), or be stored in the Sandbox for next year.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 00:12, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hi. I must admit I hadn't really thought about political differences, just the main independence ideology. I think that at first Venice will find itself swept along with Padanian independence, and be mainly content, maybe pushing for higher autonomy. However, over time I can see, especially with more left-wing ideals, them pushing for their own independence. However, I highly doubt Padania would let any independence movements go, and would use the Padanian independence, and existing Venizian Autonomy, as an excuse not to give it.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">However...

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Col James Hsu and I have discussed this, and one of our plans is for a Padanian Civil War between the Government and more liberal units, eventually leading to war with Italy - your above idea just made me think that, perhaps, Venice could try and use it as an excuse to go independence. hmmm...

<p style="font-weight:normal;">On another note, could you read/reply the above reply on the Benelux discussion?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Hope that makes sense Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 09:23, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">A Padanian Civil War does make sense; I had a feeling a neo-fascist state like Padania wouldn't survive too long. Veneto might play a large role in the PCW, especially if it decides to secede during the war (American Civil War-esque).

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 18:56, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">For that matter, Venetism might be one of the causes for tensions leading to the war.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 18:57, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Perhaps you, I, and Col. James could have a discussion on the Padanian Civil War; I have a few ideas on Venetism and Venice's role in the war.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">-- Orange  (talk) 23:31, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

Manchuria in "Scotland Says Yes"
<p style="font-weight:normal;">I think I am ready for Manchuria, now that Tibetan rebels openly declared independence. Only the Uyghurs and the Inner Mongolians are needed, and then the Manchus will now start the uprising. The trigger is the closing of a stell mill in Northeast China in November and it start a riot. Perhaps, learning from the Tibetan and Uyghur rebels, they will steal weapons from the PLA and police. The mostly Han Chinese rioters will later contact the small Manchu separatist movement for help as they are the only ones that can convince people that Northeast China must separate from China due to economic neglect of the region. Russians then come in to help the separatists gain control as Tibet, Uyghuristan, and Inner Mongolia are now gaining independence.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">General tiu (talk) 19:52, October 9, 2016 (UTC)

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Sounds good. If you add to the page Manchuria (Scotland says "Yes"), and I'll have a look over, and add to the main Timeline. Bryce III - ☕ Tea? 08:51, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

Venice Follow-up - Venetism and the Padanian Civil War
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Alright, been meaning to do this for a while, here it is now.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">In OTL, Veneto (home of Venice) has a currently quite large separatist movement, asking for the re-establishment of an independent Venetia; this movement has been dubbed "Venetism." Of course, in SSY, nationalism is magnified thanks to Scotland's success, yet I found that Venice has already been swept away form Italy by Padania. After looking into Venice more, I found that there were more liberal Venetian independence movements out there. I talked to Bryce about my findings, and he made me aware of the upcoming Padanian Civil War. Being able to work that into my Venice proposal made a Venetist victory much more possible. So, here it is.

Mounting Tensions
<p style="font-weight:normal;">The Padanian Civil War is a conflict between the current government in Milan and more liberal forces. Some of these left-wing factions could include Venetist parties, as well as Venetians who have rejected the idea of Padania. The rise of Venetian separatism could also be a major cause of the war itself; it would increase tensions between Milan and Venice, and Padania is almost certain not to let any independence movements go through.

The Most Serene Republic of Venetia
<p style="font-weight:normal;">During the Padanian Civil War, Venetists see their opportunity to finally gain the independence they've strived for. A left-wing separatist faction manages to gain control of Venice, where they declare the re-establishment of the Republic of Venice, under the name "The Most Serene Republic of Venetia." They then make their way out of the lagoon and begin to fight for control of Treviso, fanning out all the way to Trieste.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">At the war's end, Italy has reconquered Padania, but they face a choice with Venetia. Turning back on what has proved to be a key ally against Milan would not look good for Italy, nor would it do well with the hopeful Venetists who have come so close. And so, when peace negotiations began, Venetia laid out its terms:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Venetists are ecstatic with peace and independence achieved.
 * 1) All parties shall recognize the sovereignty and legitimacy of the Most Serene Republic of Venetia.
 * 2) Venetia's territory shall comprise of the former regions of Veneto, Friuli Venezia Giulia, and the province of Trentino.

After the War
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Most of the international community proceeded to recognize Venetia after the end of the Padanian Civil War. The left-wing factions that took control of Venetia had seen Padania's foreign policy firsthand, and were determined not to let that happen again; they were quick to have Venetia accede to NATO and perhaps later the EU. They would gain a seat in the United Nations, as well. Venetia would seek close relations with Italy, again thanks to the left-wing organizations in power. Politics may be very liberal in the Most Serene Republic for a while as new administrative buildings are constructed in Venice.

Discussion
<p style="font-weight:normal;">Please post all discussions here. I hope you have enjoyed, and thank you. -- Orange  (talk) 05:24, November 10, 2016 (UTC)