Talk:Ware Shoals (1983: Doomsday)

notes copied from the Piedmont Republic (1983: Doomsday) talk page.

Ware Shoals SC/notes and such pt1
I am from this area, ware shoals (I corrected the spelling on the page) if I can help in anyway with background on people and the surrounding aera then le me know. I would be glad to help. Also I've got pics of the area.Wingman1 06:24, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, Wingman. Good to see someone from South Carolina on board. Thanks for the offer to help. If you could find some history of the area -- mayors, councilmen, state legislatures, especially those around in September of 1983 -- it would be greatly appreciated. My scenario is mostly based on Greenville, Clemson, and Spartanburg because those are the areas I've lived among for the past 33 years. If you can get me some pictures (just insert them on this talk page), we can use them to illustrate a page about Ware Shoals and surrounding area. I have set the area up to be "ruled" by city blocks mostly at odds with each other, but survivors nonetheless. I'm thinking a decade of isolation has made them wary of outsiders. SouthWriter 17:27, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Here is a pic of the powerhouse before it was repainted.Wingman1 18:10, March 18, 2010 (UTC) Just upstream from there, and the powerhouse and dam have been in operation since the 1920's.

I am thinking that protecting and maintaining these would be a priority for the locals.Wingman1 18:41, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional picture. I had gone to Google Earth and surmised that this was probably a power station related to a hydro-electric power plant formed by what looked to be a fork formed at the waterfall. I am going to have to revise my story of the down stream exploration to account for both the waterfall (they could not navigate over it) and a hydro-electric facility (maintained or not). SouthWriter 21:47, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see how the dam looks like a waterfall, it diverts enough water into a small canal to power the hydro-electric plant. All from the late 1800's to early 1900's. and as of 1983 other than routine maintenance were pretty much as constructed.Wingman1 23:48, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see how this dam would be fully functional, sending electricity to the powerhouse without any electronics. However, it is in the powerhouse that the electricity is regulated and sent in controlled current to the households and businesses of Ware Shoals. It is those electronic switches and regulators that would have to be fixed.



I can imagine that there are other such plants in the upstate. I seem to remember mention of such when I visited the "World of Energy" at the Oconee Nuclear Station. It seems that getting back into the twentieth century may not have taken as long as the original editors of this time line imagined. However, old style regulators may be hard to restore; so many places - like the upstate - might be stuck using battery power until they can get components from Mexico and South America.

''Something, though, would probably be worked out in the mean time for places with hydro-electric facilities. ''i like this idea for WS.Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

I will revise the trip down the Saluda to begin below this dam, though. Perhaps I will move the fiefdoms into downtown Greenwood. SouthWriter 00:47, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Ware Shoals RR

This little line was built to serve a fabric mill in Ware Shoals, SC, in the early 1960s. For motive power they purchased a 44 Ton locomotive built by General Electric in December, 1943, #18159, as Chattanooga Traction Co. 3. When the CT was merged into the Southern Ry, it was renumbered 1955. It is apparent that there were two paint schemes during the life of the WS.



In 1985, the line was abandoned, and the locomotive was sold to Republic Locomotive Works. i still think this would be a good idea for WS, i a not sure of thier location on DD.Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Wingman1 09:26, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

'''i am looking for info on the local national gaurd unit in ware shaols, ( a com unit.) i am thinking that they would mabe merge with or back up the local police force. with the main job of makeing the town look like less of a target.'''

'''Rigel Mill, i am not sure if it was still open at that time, it was not shut down till 1985 OTL so it still was intact. (i got an idea that it's destructon by fire, due to an electrical malfunction, but what pushes them to join the Piedmont Republic.)'''

as far as leaders Mayor, town council and such i just got what is in the section below this one.

here is what i see happening on day one. (all going on at once)

attack warning given,

roads closed and blocked by some means. only resdents alowed in. local NG unit musters,(weapons issued) and aids in keeping order with police force. people in both, will remain in Police uniforms.

~ maybe a short sharp fight somwhere with some deaths shocking the locals. leading to the Keep our Heads down idea, althow some locals disagree, with the plan~

ware shoals churches, fill as folks gather and pray, and wait for news.

My uncle Glenn McKee was a Decon at the Ware Shoals Pentecostal Holiness Church at that time (i think) and i can see him talke a Leadership role in the Defence and/or planing for the DD aftermath.

family,aiunt and uncles and such lived close together as in some cases next door. (in my case i could look out my auint and uncle's back door and see 3 houses with my kin folk) - brings in the clannish stuff in the page. the other comeing from the town keeping it's colective head down.

this is all the rough draft notes i have right now. i will expand and update this section in the future.

thanks for the help South. Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Public Officials/Notes pt2
I am working on the pic's of the people, mayors and such.

Mayor at 1983: Manly Balentine, mayor of ware shoals (no pic).

State legislature (not sure when first elected) at 1983: Marion P. Carnell (pic included) Wingman1 18:41, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Check Google, for more, and Google Earth is good for a overview. And one more thing, the mill in town was still open in 1983 and the town had a rail link to the mill. If this info helps or if I could be of further assistance, let me know.Wingman1 20:18, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Google and I are good friends, and Google earth is my constant companion. This time line assumes that the electronics in modern power plants (that is, printed circuits, transistors, etc.) were put out with an electromagnetic pulse. Due to this, all electricity and many vehicles were out of service as of September 25, 1983. They would have had to been reconstructed without the use of electronic components to be used again. This process would have begun immediately after dealing with thousands of refugees that came up from Columbia and Augusta. The chaos that ensued caused a great disruption in society for years. I am assuming that engineers and engineering students at Clemson would have taken the better part of five years getting the upstate back into the twentieth century. --SouthWriter 21:47, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * the ones here would be more resistant to the EMP because they are older, if the is enough of the support persons and the know how surviving.Wingman1 23:33, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * This note should be in the above section (sorry, I inserted a "section" indicator last time I was on). However, I addressed this above -- the generation of power must be regulated at the powerhouse, which would most likely contain modern electronic components. SouthWriter 00:52, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * - sorry bout that! love what ya have done for my hometown :) i will be looking for more local politicians and, influential persons from the Ware Shoals aera. ( i am enjoying this! this is fun!)Wingman1 05:02, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Notes pt 3
love the new sections here.Wingman1 03:58, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I aim to please. But throw in your two cents, man, we're neighbors. How about some action down among the fiefdoms of Ware Shoals? Neighborhood rumbles, kingdom building - survival of the fittest, you know? Cause a ruckus. Or perhaps, get tired of the struggle and migrate to the Republic of Piedmont (before 1/1/1). This timeline is not "live" just yet, so if I haven't mentioned it, you can fit it it). Or cause a ruckus on the southern border any time in the past decade of heightened security! Some of the fiefdom chiefs of Ware Shoals might be mistaken for Taccoans! SouthWriter 04:16, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking that the idea of fiefdoms was being a way of making Ware Shoals less of a target, this giving them time to get on their feet, if the bad guys think you do not have anything worth stealing they leave you alone?

maybe a sort of uneasy peace in the area, maybe a sort of neutral area that nobody is much interested in. till the Piedmont Republic moves in, say late 1990's?

maybe a defense force built from the local P.D, and the local army national guard unit?

(I can see them actually doing something along those lines:Wingman1 05:29, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

'link here http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/111sig.htm. )'

'was just looking for this link. lol!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)'


 * Units 


 * HHC likely lost on DD,


 * Alpha Company - Abbeville likely lost on DD,


 * Bravo Company - W. Columbia likey lost on DD,


 * Charlie Company - Myrtle Beach likely lost DD,


 * Delta Company - Hodges armory located across the road from High School in Ware Shoals.Wingman1 05:29, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

'''Wouldn't some problems with an outlaw or bandit or two dealt with harshly discourage the "worst" of that sort of thing? i can see this.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)'''

How do you feel about a ware shoals page on here?Wingman1 05:06, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I say go with it. Let's assume a cache of shielded components in a secured position somewhere in Greenwood county. The fiefdoms are at least a more or less peaceful way of dealing with the crisis, and without communications for years could have been expected.   yes!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * The local police and Guardsmen should be able to work well under the civilian direction of the Ware Shoals mayor's office. yes!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * I figure this defense force would have been working all along covertly in the peace keeping efforts in Anderson - and especially in the ongoing "warm war" with Taccoa. How else could the Republic develop television years before contact with the "advanced" civilizations of the southern hemisphere? SouthWriter 14:28, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * real life is being a pain in the rear end right now. my computer has died and i am on someone elses. : (


 * between that and work, i realy do not have much time, and when i will get time i can't say. (gotta love McDolands! lol! )


 * i am kinda catching my internet as i can, till i get a new computer. but i love the ideas you have just gave me.


 * i just hope my "talents" as a "writer" can do them justice! LoL!Wingman1 18:33, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * When you get time, jot down the ideas the old fashioned way. And then, when you get a chance you can run them by me. I'll be glad to guide you through the process of putting those ideas into a story. SouthWriter 21:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 *  just now rembered this section from before when we tossed around this idea before.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC) 

give me a day or 3 and i might have somes stuff to for review.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, almost two years and we're still at it! I look forward to your ideas. I am not sure if a separate "Ware Shoals (1983: Doomsday)" article will work, but a section on a "History of Piedmont" article might be good. I really should have created one of those when the history section got so large. SouthWriter (talk) 16:27, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * work is going to have me snowed under for a bit i might have somethis for you in about a week. Wingman1 06:10, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * added a line and section to the page. i will post any new stuff on the talk page first so you can review it first.Wingman1 19:21, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * I removed the section heading and replaced the words "Ware Shoals" with the sentence you added. I put the town's name in bold print and we can link it to a section on the History page when I created it. I have projects I need to work on before that, but I'll get to it some time. :-(


 * Anyway, thanks for the interest in improving the article. SouthWriter (talk) 20:27, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * no problem, i will do more after latter.Wingman1 20:35, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * location of the The water treatment plant for WS. is more or less inside the town borders. name of street underlined.(in pic)


 * high school location circled in red,Wingman1 20:57, June 8, 2012 (UTC)Untitled_xx.png

i am thinking an lookout post some where to the left, (on the pic). would be a spot for a lookout post.Wingman1 10:40, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

still putting together my notes.Wingman1 11:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

i am starting to get discouraged here.Wingman1 06:53, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

some links
===Ware Shoals, South Carolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia===

Pre Doomsday History. (see link.)

===Ware Shoals Railroad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia=== The train carried goods to and from the textile mill located in Ware Shoals, South Carolina, but its main use was the transportation of coal. The railroad was built in 1905 by the Southern Railway, which supplied locomotives to operate the line with during the steam era. By the late 1950s, the railroad dieselized with a single ex-Southern General Electric 44-ton locomotive, numbered 1955.

The railroad ceased operations in 1985 when the textile mill begin to curtail operations. Trackage was pulled up in 1987.

(was in-use and in-tact on DD.)

===Saluda River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia===

from river crossing seciton

Laurens County/Abbeville County/Greenwood County Wingman1 02:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Erwin Mill Road
 * S.C. 252 (Old Bridge) in Ware Shoals, South Carolina
 * East Main Street in Ware Shoals
 * S.C. 25 in Ware Shoals

http://www.wareshoals.org/Site/ Wingman1 09:52, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

the page.
i would recomend 2 changes as is the pic maybe changeing from 1987 to 1997 because of the mill not being in the pic. i was going to use the loss of the mill in 1990 (same as OTL as what pushes WS to join Piedmont.

section name form just history to Pre Doomsday History.Wingman1 02:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I figured the flyover was part of the operations in the peace-keeping effort in Anderson, and thus the 1987 date. I can crop the picture to exclude the area where the mill was. What was the nature of the "loss" of the mill in our time line?

in OTL, the mill was lost in 1990 after being shut down and mostly un used for a number of years.

i was actuly out of town the week it happened but from what i have heard send then from local's that witnessed it. it was they came so close to loseing the whole town that day.Wingman1 21:30, June 15, 2012 (UTC) i was wanting to use some kind of ATL verison of this fire to push WS into joining Piedmont. the ATL date does not "have to" match the OTL one..

i have got some pic of the aftermath of the fire somewhere i will post here when i can.Wingman1 21:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

makes sense to me. ( might edit the pic to the right for a aftermath shot.Wingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC) grea idea i will us it when i get to that sectionWingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have cropped out the vacant lot so the flyover makes more sense as it is. I used Google Earth arial shots from 1994 that matched the on to the right and compared the modern shots.
 * Anytime after 1987 will be good for the fire. In all likelihood Piedmont would come to the aid of the community to fight the fire anyway, leading to warmed relations and annexation of the area.
 * I'm thinking adding it to Williamston County will work well. That will mean expanding south a little, but I've been thinking that Anderson would be allowed to expand south with borders along the western border of Secession Lake. the new border of Williamston County would be from the northern tip of that lake to Laurens County just south of Ware Shoals. SouthWriter (talk) 23:54, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

great idea, esp if the people in Anderson are still a threat. i can see WS in Williamston County.Wingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

As for the section name, I'd say that the "Pre-Doomsday History" would be a sub-section of the "History" section. It is not necessary to have a large pre-doomday section either - just enough to set the stage for how the town develops in the aftermath of the destruction of Columbia and Augusta. SouthWriter (talk) 15:32, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

ok i can change the section header back, no big there.Wingman1 09:37, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

'what about the section below to start with. a bit of pre DD history?Wingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC)'

Lordganon made a good point, so i reworded the intro a bit South.is it ok Wingman1 12:01, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

First section for the page.
Ware Shoals is the site of an old water wheel grist mill operated in the early 19th century by William Ware at Rutledge Ford, on the Saluda River.

Nat Dial of Laurens County envisioned the possibility of damming this river to power a cotton plant. Dial started the project, but ran out of funds before the power plant was completed. Benjamin D. Riegel bought the project from Dial and founded both the Ware Shoals Manufacturing Company and the town of Ware Shoals in 1902.

The construction of a power plant was completed in 1904, as a prelude to the construction of a state-of-the-art textile mill in 1906. That power plant originally provided for 4,800 horse power. The mill contained 30,000 spindles. By 1916 a new mill was constructed, containing 70,200 spindles and 1,300 looms.

By 1916, the town was as new and modern as any in South Carolina. In addition to the cotton mill and the school, the Ware Shoals Manufacturing Corporation, later known as Riegel Textile Corporation, helped give the town electric lights, water and sewerage and good streets. The mill operated a bank, a railway, an ice factory, a cotton gin and a cotton seed oil mill. A community center was built by the textile company at a cost of $40,000.

In 1926 a large school building was constructed to accommodate students. This building is still used today as the Ware Shoals High School and remains one of the oldest school buildings in the use in the state of South Carolina.

Benjamin Riegel helped organize the town's first church when he brought a Presbyterian preacher, Rev. J. M. Dallas. That first church building was intended as a union church building and the Methodists and Presbyterians used it together, while the Baptists constructed their own facility. "The People's Amusement Hall" is what Benjamin Riegel set out to build, but was so proud of it that he named it the Katherine Hall, in honor of his daughter. Katherine Hall at various times housed or hosted a movie theater, the community library, a Masonic Lodge, a pool hall, a teen canteen as well as showers and dressing rooms for the adjacent public swimming pool.

Riegel Stadium was built in 1931. The stadium was first used for football games in 1934. Lighting was installed a year later, allowing night games as well. Through the decades, Riegel Stadium has hosted high school teams, textile baseball leagues, and the Negro baseball leagues. In 1954, the stadium hosted an exhibition game between the Cincinnati Red Legs and The Washington Senators.

The town reached a peak in the early 1970s. However, gross mismanagement at the corporate level facilitated the rapid demise in this plant.

notes and coments on the above section
i did not do a straight copy from wikipeda but i did use the elements i think would be the key to the surivial of WS as a community. with the competition for resources comeing in more after DD.Wingman1 10:02, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

any thoughts?Wingman1 14:35, June 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks good to me. It was your typical mill town, it appears, that would have been drying up about the time of Doomsday. The history of the town could probably be shortened even more, though, unless you want the mill to play a part in its survival. 


 * oh yea that'ss what i had in mind. using the textile's as trade goods and for the Town's needs.Wingman1 04:34, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * You might look into working in something of anything that has to do with the relations that Ware Shoals had with Greenville in the 1980's. Perhaps work in some politics if there were any particularly interesting people from the area. And of course, bring in the National Guard stationed there. SouthWriter (talk) 03:25, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * working on that now.Wingman1 04:34, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

new work.
feel free South to change or scrap as you think it needs.Wingman1 05:54, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've cleaned it up a little and inserted a few dates to make this work. I still think the period between the 1970's and the 1980's needs a bit of fill in. A transition from it's peak to the coming of Doomsday is needed. Either that, or a great transition sentence in the section on Doomsday. I'll do a little research, but I want this to be largely your article. SouthWriter (talk) 21:22, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

ok i will tweek the page a bit.Wingman1 22:20, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Image Gallery
puttinig WS pic here to use on page latter, i plan on "'shoping" some of them.