Talk:Vive La Revolution Reloaded! (Map Game)

Algorithm
This algorithm is very important in this game, because we will be having a war. There will be at least two battles every turn. Here is the algorithm for the battles.

Location

 * At the war: 5: At the War means that the battle is in your nation.
 * Next to the war: 4: Next to the war means that the battle is on or near your border.
 * Close to the war: 3: Close to the war means that the battle is inside your neighboring country. (This only applies is the country is Poland sized or really close to you in the case of a Russia size nation.)
 * Far from the war: 1: Far from the war means that the war is nowhere near your country or its capital cirty.
 * Halfway around the world: -1 (By negative, I mean it loses one, due to wasting massive supplies, poor main comands, and wariness from troops from the mainland.) Halfway around the world means that your are not on the same continent. However, if you border an ocean (the Atlantic, perhaps), then you can send troops to the other side of that ocean. No loss, no gain.

Strength

 * Every ally/nation participating in the battle with defenders or attackers: 3
 * Side with greater population: 6
 * Side with greater industry: 6
 * Control of the Seas: 3+ attackers, or 5+ defenders. (The nation with a superior navy in that area, that has control of the seas of the areas, has a major advantage, due to blockading ports, or cutting off the enemy's supplies.
 * Tired Military: If defending nation is fighting another war already somewhere else: -2
 * If attacking force is fighting another war somewhere else: -2
 * Size of Army: (Nation with a larger army) If attacker has a larger army: 3+
 * If attacking army is smaller -3
 * Vice versa for defenders.

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Island: 4
 * General: 
 * (Depending on who is leading the army, if he is detailed and the general is historically sucessful.)
 * Attacker: 1+ Defender: 1+
 * Note: In this game island and defender advantage points are COMBINED

Random

 * Done using random.org from one to ten

Motive
This is carbon copy of another game's algorithm, its from Scraw's ''The War That Came Early. ''I liked it so much i decided to use it here. Let the games begin and remember: La Guerre donne toute sa gloire a la nation la plus puissante!
 * Provoked: 8
 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Religious: 4-7 (if government is based on a religion, 7, if not, 4)
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3
 * To Gain Land: 2
 * To Look Nice in the Eyes of Big Nations: -2

Thank God!
Well, I for one am glad the game has been reloaded, because I quite enjoyed the last one. I shotty the Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin! ("Shotty" is Australian slang for "bags", or "shotgun", or any other word that means you claim something) Callumthered 00:09, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Warning
Here is a list of nations: These nations should be placed under players who have good records in map games. I've seen newbies take America and then ruin a great game. Just a warning so this game doesn't fail again. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:17, May 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * France
 * Britain
 * America
 * Spain
 * Portugal
 * Russia
 * Prussia

Thank you for taking my advice, Peruvian. Hopefully this will save this game from suffering like the last two games! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:29, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, hopefully thanks Scraw, let's get the word out! and you can just call me AP

Ok then, AP! I'm sure that Monster Pumpkin, Ianian58, and others will join this game very soon! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:34, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

AP, better add China to that list! I just remembered that China is important in this game! Idk who has China, but off with his name! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:02, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Not acceptable... SPQR 18:00, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Overview
I'm glad the game was restored. May someone please give me an overview of France during this time period.Enclavehunter 00:35, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

since i was removed from using the usa which country may i use? Nkbeeching

Any except the 7 listed at the top, sorry about erasing your name like that but we dont want newbies controlling powerful nations like the USA. also sign your posts pleaseAwesomePeruvian 00:38, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

He's not a newbie, he's a very good player. I know him and he holds a good record. His only problem is his English, but we can fix that, lol. Let him keep America. Also, to sign, write ~. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:45, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ouch ive been out of canada to long damn. im actually an english speaker but ive been in argentina for over 10 years, this sucks need to improve it. Nkbeeching 9:45, may 4

No no, put the " ~ " to sign. Works better. Also, feel free to take back America. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:53, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Damn it somebody beat me to the Quing Dynasty! My plans for Asian Dominations are spoiled! And Enclave, to give a quick view in France: If we start in the year we started the last game, France will be in a one-sided Civil War, with the French Revolutionaries overpowering the French Army, and in a year should easily establish a new Republic Government. And by the time, there will be social unrest, in the periods, there were lots of hangings due to religion prosecution when people talked out against the new republic- OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! But things should calm down. Also, try to hold back Napoleon until....1801? And since somebody beat me to China- I'll be hoping I can prevent the likely collapse of Spain! Puerto Rican Super-Island, here I come! Ianian58 00:57, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

nah its ok, ive never played as india before lets see if i can make the Moghul Empire survive the XIX Centuy. nkbeeching

Nk, you're not supposed to put " " in your signature. And Ian, you can have China now! It's one of to reserved nations now! And Nk, the Ottomans will help you keep the Mughal Empire going! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:05, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Got it. No Napoleon until 1801. Enclavehunter 01:07, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...I could take China back.....but, I'm really growing into the idea of making the whole "Puerto Rican Fortress" (LETS SEE YOU AMERICANS TAKE IT NOW!) and so on....and then again, I've played China twice, with pretty much the same turns in both games. Big rebellions, yadiyada, Empress, bleh, invasion of Tibet. Hmm...but I really want to continue that.....I'm a patient person......Hmm, fine, I'll go back as China, but whoever is going to play as Spain should be warned that he does not have the potential to expand his colonies to the north. Ianian58 01:14, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! I WAS CHINA!!!!! SPQR 01:26, May 5, 2012 (UTC) (very angry. Take Spain, for %^#^(%@!#%& out loud!!!)

No. You have a bad record in map games. There are eight nations you cannot take, and those are America, France, Spain, Britain, China, Portugal, Russia, and Prussia. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:37, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

What bad record? Everybody kept ganging up on me, and I couldn't take it anymore and quit and everything was distorted to make me look like an idiot and I get a bad record. I mean, what did I do wrong? Please don't gang up on me!! :( SPQR 17:58, May 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, it's better to be a smaller nation. You have more freedom to expand, and modernise. I chose to be the Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, which is, let's face it, pretty weak. But last game, it did really well.Callumthered 04:27, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, you're right on that. Can't be bad to be smaller, I just hate it when people steal my country's. That's why I quit last time, because France was stolen by the mods in a totally unacceptable bend in the rights of this wiki, and now it's happening again !! SPQR 17:54, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Enclavehunter, I personally think Ianian gave quite a conservative estimate on Napoleon. He can be a prominent General in the 1780s, and 1790s. In otl, Napoleon took power in 1799... so around then. But is he isn't sent to Egypt, it could potentially be even sooner. Callumthered 01:42, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

starting the game
it's now tuesday so can we please start? Iyandelian 02:18, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

France and allies

 * Location:4
 * Strength: 3+3+3+6+3 = 18
 * Tactical Advantage: 1+1 = 2
 * Random: 6
 * Motive:7
 * Total: 37

Prussia

 * Location:5
 * Strength:3+6 = 9
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Random:7
 * Motive:5
 * Total:26

Result

 * Prussia is severely defeated by France and its allies.

Siamese-Burmese conflict
Do we need algorithms for the Siamese-Burmese conflict (I think Siam eventually defeated Burma in RL, and it has China behind it in this game)? 77topaz 04:48, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

I do? Ianian58 22:32, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

== Swiss Invasion of Savoy And Milan == Switzerland in Bold, Savoy and Milan in Italics

Location: 4, Strength: 15, Tactical: 2, Random: 5, Motive: 2 Overall: 28

Location: 5, Strength: -3, Tactical: 3, Random: 1, Motive: 8, Overall: 14

RESULT: Switzerland defeats Savoy and Milan, and annexes them into the Confederation.

You are going to have to do that one again, as you forgot some things. Monster Pumpkin 21:07, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

What did I forget? I added the motive for Savoy and Milan if that's what it was. As far as I know, this is the way it should be. Blocky858 00:57, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible for Switzerland to have colonies? Most particularly, Africa, North America, or India? Blocky858 00:59, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

This is definitely not happening. A: Switzerland is NEUTRAL. B: The Italians are French allies, and Switzerland is pretty much pro-French. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:20, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if this is correct, but Savoy is an French territory. Enclavehunter 02:29, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

@Scraw, Switzerland was declared neutral only for the Franco-Prussian War. @Enclave, The map shows that it is independant. Blocky858 03:15, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Also, since AwesomePeruvian, who is the head mod and the game reviver, acknoledged my taking of the two countries, I'm gonna say it's alright. Blocky858 03:15, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Savoy is in the Piedmont-Sardina Region, and was annexed by France. Read the post. Enclavehunter 03:16, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

I'm the head mod. He forked power to me because he said that he felt he was not ready to be head mod, as demonstrated here. Also, just because we don't say "Switzerland is neutral" every turn doesn't mean it's not neutral. Switzerland is neutral, weak, under French control, and cannot and will not take over any nation and/or have a colony abroad. A major problem with Swissia (Swtizerland takes too long to spell, so I just write Swissia.) is that it is landlocked and cannot really do anything. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:21, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

I asked Peruvian and he never replied to me if Switzerland was neutral or not, but more people are acknoledging that I have captured the two countries. @Enclave, I never read, or even see a post about that. @Scraw, France hasn't been in control of the Confederation, the Confederation is not very weak, as it has been stockpiling men and weapons for quite some time, and it is no longer land locked as it has taken the two countries that open up into the Mediterranean Sea. I'd just like to drop this conversation before anyone gets banned or kicked or punished in any way, or before major fighting breaks out. Blocky858 03:33, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Let's forget this all never happened and my actions as Switzerland are now null and void. I will be switching my play to Austria now, and will then try ot make things better, but playing as a nation that has different relations with other countries than that of Switzerland will feel awkward. Blocky858 03:54, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Britain,Spain,France
Location: 1

Strength: +3+3+6+3-2+3

Tactical: 1 - 3

Random: 4

Motive: 5

Aztlan
Location: 5

Strength: 6-2 -3

Tactical: 2+3

Random: 4

Motive: 7

I should not have a negative or zero for strenght, I have been prepping for years for this Revolution.

Result
UK,France,Spain 24 Aztlan 21

European powers, led by the UK overwhelm Aztlan forces in Mexico and begin to take the upper hand due to superiority and military might.

'''Ian: WOW, WHAT THE HELL. There is  no way in hell, the British, French and Spanish combined, could have a larger army than the rebels in a popular rebellion, historically, they rarely deployed large armies, attacks that were planned for years still had less numbers, and simply had technological advantage. But there is no way they'd have a bigger force. And why would France, the traditional rivals of Britain, which helped the Monarchy and tried to invade them from the north before, help Britain or Spain, who helped the Monarchy? Ianian58 17:04, May 20, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''Spain helped France, and France is going to help its friend. Enclavehunter 23:41, May 20, 2012 (UTC)'''

Austrian Peace Treaty
Austrian Diplomacy: Austria wants the following land from Aztlan to end the war.

You realize you hardly broke up Aztlan? Aztlan ends at Panama. You're breaking up New Granada, the VR of the Rio de la Plata, and others which are loyal to the Crown of Spain.

I don't know where you think Panama is, but according to the other maps, I am taking a large portion out of Southern Aztlan.

Keep dreaming, Austria. This would NEVER happen.

Mughal
Location: 4

Strength: 6 + 2 + 3

Tactical: 1

Random: 4

Motive: 2

Maratha Confederacy
Location: 5

Strength: 6 + 2

Tactical: 2

Random: 2

Motive: 8

Result
Mughals 22 Maratha 25 

'''The Maratha Confederacy repeals the Mughal attack. The Mughal Empire is on the defensive as the Maratha Empire mobilizes against it after the initial shock of invasion.'''

'''This is fair. Mughals, i've told you before that you cannot afford large europeanization or modernization. The Marathas actually are very strong during the period. This is final.'''

i have no problem with the results this is my first time attempting to be a central asian nation not to mention a severly underdeveloped one so its ok with me ill just keep trying.

France

 * Location: 5
 * Strength: 15
 * Tatical Advantage: 2
 * Random: 8
 * Motive: 5
 * Total: 35

Italian States

 * Location: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Tatical Advantage: 2
 * Random: 3
 * Motive: 8
 * Total: 21

Result

 * Napoleon and his army swiftly defeat the Italian states.

==French Offensive into Central Italy

France

 * Location: 5
 * Strength: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Random: 7
 * Motive: 5
 * Total: 33

Italian States

 * Location: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Tatical Advantage: 2
 * Random: 2
 * Motive: 8
 * Total: 20

Result

 * The French Offensive into Central Italy is an success, and the advancement on southern italy begins.

Britain
Location: 4

Strength: 6+6+3 -3

Tactical: 1

Random: 6

Motive: 2

Mughals
Location: 5

Strength: 3 -2

Tactical: 2

Random: 7

Motive: 7

Result
Britain 25 Mughals 22

Britain successfully invades the Mughal Empire from the East and are advancing quickly towards Dehli, the capital.

Britain
Location: 5

Strength: 6+6+3-3

Tactical: 1

Random: 3

Motive: 2

Mughals
Location: 5

Strength: 3-2

Tactical: 2

Random: 6

Motive: 7

Result
Britain 23 Mughals 21

'''The British Army defeats the Mughal Empire and Delhi falls to Britain. With this front quickly and desperately closed, the British now can focus on the possible attack from the Chinese. The British suffer great losses after this campaign.'''

um
wow so quickly defeated and im guessing with this im out oh well it was a nice try i guess on my part. Nkbeeching

You don't have to quit, you can probably pick another nation. TacoCopper

you should be a german state, they're fun and no ones likely to invade you Iyandelian 20:56, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

is it alright to start as an other nation.

Russia vs Ottoman Empire
LocationEdit ■At the war: 5: At the War means that the battle is in your nation. (Russia 4, Ottoman Empire 5) ■Next to the war: 4: Next to the war means that the battle is on or near your border. ■Close to the war: 3: Close to the war means that the battle is inside your neighboring country. (This only applies is the country is Poland sized or really close to you in the case of a Russia size nation.) ■Far from the war: 1: Far from the war means that the war is nowhere near your country or its capital cirty. ■Halfway around the world: -1 (By negative, I mean it loses one, due to wasting massive supplies, poor main comands, and wariness from troops from the mainland.) Halfway around the world means that your are not on the same continent. However, if you border an ocean (the Atlantic, perhaps), then you can send troops to the other side of that ocean. No loss, no gain. StrengthEdit ■Every ally/nation participating in the battle with defenders or attackers: 3 ■Side with greater population: 6 (Russia 16, Ottoman Empire 10) ■Side with greater industry: 6 ■Control of the Seas: 3+ attackers, or 5+ defenders. (The nation with a superior navy in that area, that has control of the seas of the areas, has a major advantage, due to blockading ports, or cutting off the enemy's supplies. ■Tired Military: If defending nation is fighting another war already somewhere else: -2 ■If attacking force is fighting another war somewhere else: -2 ■Size of Army: (Nation with a larger army) If attacker has a larger army: 3+ ■If attacking army is smaller -3 (Russia 19, Ottoman Empire 10) ■Vice versa for defenders.

Tactical AdvantageEdit ■Attacker’s advantage: 1 (Russia 20, Ottoman Empire 12) ■Defender’s advantage: 2 ■Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3 ■Island: 4 ■General: ■(Depending on who is leading the army, if he is detailed and the general is historically sucessful.) ■Attacker: 1+ Defender: 1+

■Note: In this game island and defender advantage points are COMBINED

■Done using random.org from one to ten I would prefer a mod do this part

MotiveEdit ■Provoked: 8 ■Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 7 ■Social/moral: 6 ■Religious: 4-7 (if government is based on a religion, 7, if not, 4) ■Political: 5 (Russia 21, Ottoman Empire 17) ■Economical: 3 ■To Gain Land: 2 ■To Look Nice in the Eyes of Big Nations: -2 The Results depend on the chance section. TacoCopper

Random: Russia +4. Ottomans +7

Result
Wow that was a mess, but i sorted it out.

Final: Russia-- 25 Ottoman Empire--24

'''Russia narrowly invades the Ottomans and advances towards the Balkans. '''

Taco next time please specify where you invade--AP

'''Taco why the hell are you invading me? We ended a long chain of wars and signed a non-agression apct in the second turn. Also, what "provoked" you? [[User:Scrawland Scribblescratch|Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱

Istoría]], Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:46, May 28, 2012 (UTC)'''

The reason was that I wanted to help Britain out, that way I could forge a stronger alliance with them. I must have misread the game, because I thought that China had decleared war on Britain already and that the Ottomans were helping the Chinese out. So, in a in-direct way, I would be helping Britain out, and I was going to ask Britain to create some sort of International Alliance. But, my plan now appears to be implausible now that I read over it instead of just thinking it. TacoCopper As far as i know, you are allied to the Chinese. BTW China is on the brink of war but hasn't declared it. Russia and Britain were already allied i thought --AP

Well to be a little clear, I just declared war on Britain (Y U NO LISTEN TO THREATS?) and so, but, the Ottomans wouldn't help out, too far, and the Ottoman depended on British help at the time, until Napoleon came and then signed an alliance, but whatever. Just giving my opinion. Ianian58 13:35, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Attention! Sorry everyone, but a mod has decleared this implausible. I try my best to be plausible, but every once in a while I might slip. So sorry for my implausible post once again. And sorry to Scrawland for being a victim in a crossfire of one of my whacky goals. TacoCopper

Spain
Location: 4

Strength: 6+3-3

Tactical: 1

Random: 4

Motive: 5

Portugal
Location: 5

Strength: 3+3

Tactical: 2

Random: 2

Motive: 8

Final Result
Spain 20 Portugal 23

The Portuguese repel the Spanish attack.

Treaty of Lisbon
Moderated by the British Empire

Discussion: 

We demand Brazil be a commonwealth of Portugal. That's it.

Listen, Spain we all know you're mad because your colonies became dominions but it doesn't have to be that way for Portugal. They actually put the rebellion down. You're in no place to make demands. We propose status quo antebellum. No territorial or political changes.AP

Portugal: Brazil will not be independent!!!!! We also demand Spain to not interfere with our business and also demand compensation for arming rebels. Portugal wants no land or political change.

Aztlan: Aztaln will back Portugal in case of war, as Aztaln wants to be fully independant, and Spain wont allow it. Aztaln will pay you in gold and silver bullion.

France: France supports Portugal in its descisision.

Britain supports Portugal

Signatories
'''The Treaty of Lisbon has only one point: Status quo antebellum. Signatories are expected to abide by these guidelines. The British Empire has agreed to personally enforce this treaty.'''

Spain: 

Portugal: Portugal signes, agrees

Only these two nations may sign

Full Independace For Aztlan
Aztlan: Aztaln wishes to have full independace from Spain, and would like to do it peacefully.

France/Britain

 * Location: 3
 * Strength: 2+6+6+3+3 = 20
 * Tatical Advantage: 1+1 = 2
 * Random: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Total:33

Batavian Republic

 * Location:5
 * Strength: 0
 * Tatical Advantage: 2
 * Motive: 7
 * Total:14

Result
Overwhelming defeat of the Batavian Republic and is defeated at the hands of Napoleon, the French Army, British Navy, and the British Army.

map changes
the new larger German colonies need to be added, and if all the confederation states could be the same colour that would be good.

I think I arleady fixed it, but the French colonies were expanded. Enclavehunter 01:13, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but they're not fixed. And Mecklenburg is still not coloured in. It's not vitally important right now though. Callumthered 02:55, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

New map is really messed up. Ottoman Empire expanded all the way to Horn of Africa. I've been working on that for years now, so I think it should be added.



Ottoman Empire should look like this

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:33, June 8, 2012 (UTC).

Aztlan would not have the resources to expand so far north. Reasons: Ianian58 02:11, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

A. Lack of manpower, the areas had small population, no encouragment to expand so much.

B. Indians in the way. Especially at these times, the area was infested with small tribes, and wildlife which made traveling difficult.

C. Rough terrain, the western parts where Aztlan has expanded is very tough to move through.

You should shorten the Aztlan expansion ALOT, the only nice part they would expand would be through the cost.

Ianian58 02:11, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Also, I think you could shorten U.S and British Canada a bit back too. Ianian58 02:13, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

All Dutch colonies belong to Britain and the Batavian Repblic (the orange nation north of France) is annexed into France. Enclavehunter 02:16, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

(Secret) Meeting in London
Invitation to: Napoleon I of France

King William- OK Napoleon, good buddy ol' chap, now that we've established empires what say you and i agree boundaries for later colonization in Africa? Also what should we do about the Chinese and the Ottomans? They threaten our holdings due to their alliance.(Me in India, you in East Africa) If we do go to war with them i suggest taking out the Ottomans first and then taking care of the Chinese. Also what is our stance on the Spanish?

'''You foolish GroBbritannien! OTTOMANS ARE FRENCH ALLIES!'''

'''This is a discussion, not an actual planning of things. You're really getting annoying ian. if that was not ian i'm sorry but you really should sign your posts'''

Napoleon - Let's leave the Turks for now. Destroy the Chinese, or atleast cripple them. The Spanish aren't really threat, but let's say they try to put down an rebellion, and their dead.

That wasn't me : l Ianian58 03:48, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Right, sorry Ian. Yes i didnt know about the Turks we'll leave 'em. I really dont want to fight the Chinese but they are threatening us so war might be possible. AP

It was me Scraw. You should check the history. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:02, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

This game + China
Is this game dead? Because only a few people are editting it, and none for all of today, and whole days are being skipped. If it isn't dead, could I take China since its player hasn't editted in nearly a week? Or, if it is dead, should a fourth game be made? If so, I call China for the next game! LurkerLordB (Talk) 19:06, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

So... LurkerLordB (Talk) 04:10, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...well, China is Ian's three time nation, and I hate to break traditional, but see you in in 4 when I start it on Monday. Interested? Btw, whatever happened to Siam-Burma? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:16, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

The second game I never joined because it was born out of that awful DeanSims vs. RandomWriterGuy drama. This one I didn't see until a lot of nations were already taken. If I played the same nation ever time on map games, it would be boring, I don't think I've played the same nation twice in all the map games I've played so far. LurkerLordB (Talk) 12:41, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

If he does really want China again, I suppose I could take another nation, but I would prefer China. LurkerLordB (Talk) 12:59, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it looks like this game is being revived, so I'll save my plans for China for the next game that begins some time in the eighteenth century. LurkerLordB (Talk) 03:29, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Texas
Hey, I was wondering if I could play as Texas and in 10 years or so have a revolution or something. Whosonefirst? (talk) 22:07, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Aztlan will grant you independace now if you like. -Dean DeanSims (User talk:DeanSims) 23:56, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

American Agression
Aztlan asks the natins of the world for help agsint American imperialism, stating that America only wants a reason to attack Aztlan, and help is asked for by all nations willing to help. I fwar occurs and Aztlan wins, Aztaln will take no American land whatsover, as it would be wrong to do somethng we hate. -Dean DeanSims (User talk:DeanSims) 23:56, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

US vs Aztlan: THE GREAT NORTH AMERICAN WAR
USA in bold, Aztlan in italics.

Location

 * At the war: 5: At the War means that the battle is in your nation.
 * Next to the war: 4: Next to the war means that the battle is on or near your border.
 * Close to the war: 3: Close to the war means that the battle is inside your neighboring country. (This only applies is the country is Poland sized or really close to you in the case of a Russia size nation.)
 * Far from the war: 1: Far from the war means that the war is nowhere near your country or its capital city.
 * Halfway around the world: -1 (By negative, I mean it loses one, due to wasting massive supplies, poor main comands, and wariness from troops from the mainland.) Halfway around the world means that your are not on the same continent. However, if you border an ocean (the Atlantic, perhaps), then you can send troops to the other side of that ocean. No loss, no gain.

Strength

 * Every ally/nation participating in the battle with defenders or attackers: 3 (+6, France and Britain)
 * Side with greater population: 6
 * Side with greater industry: 6
 * Control of the Seas: 3+ attackers, or 5+ defenders. (The nation with a superior navy in that area, that has control of the seas of the areas, has a major advantage, due to blockading ports, or cutting off the enemy's supplies.
 * Tired Military: If defending nation is fighting another war already somewhere else: -2
 * If attacking force is fighting another war somewhere else: -2
 * Size of Army: (Nation with a larger army) If attacker has a larger army: 3+ 
 * If attacking army is smaller -3
 * Vice versa for defenders.

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Island: 4
 * General:
 * (Depending on who is leading the army, if he is detailed and the general is historically sucessful.)
 * Attacker: 1+ Defender: 1+
 * Note: In this game island and defender advantage points are COMBINED

Random

 * Done using random.org from one to ten

Motive

 * Provoked: 8
 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Religious: 4-7 (if government is based on a religion, 7, if not, 4)
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3
 * To Gain Land: 2
 * To Look Nice in the Eyes of Big Nations: -2

Result

 * America has 34 points
 * and Aztlan has 14
 * Crushing American victory, Aztlan military forced to retreat toward Mexico City while American troops begin to become active on the new border with Aztlan.

Discussion
I'd like to thank AP for using my algorithm. I tried to iron all the flaws out of it based on my experience in all map games and issues I have heard of that screw the algorithm.

If anyone sees something wrong, fix it. This does not include Aztlan's player. If something is wrong, Dean, tell AP, and tell him to fix it. Rules are rules, and you have to follow them.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:19, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Greece
Since Greece is independent from the Ottoman Empire, is anyone cool with me playing as the Greeks? Stewdio333 (talk) 08:11, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Go for it. Germany will give you some help in nation building (once Mecklenburg is in control) Callumthered (talk) 08:27, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Removed Messages
AwesomePeruvian recently removed a bunch of moderator warnings against DeanSims from the main page for some reason as his IP. Thinking this was just some IP vandal, I had briefly banned it until I realized that it was him and he could do that since he was moderator. However, I still think the messages should be kept up. Attempts to re-add them have failed due to the bad internet at my current location. Sorry to Awesome Peruvian for the confusion though. LurkerLordB (Talk) 17:38, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Prussia
Mind if I play as Prussia? StrawberryBat (talk) 02:16, July 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Go for it, but note that it is the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg which has the major role in Germany now. Callumthered (talk) 02:27, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

United States
Can I take over as the United States until the player returns, if he returns. Enclavehunter (talk) 00:53, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Map Updates
The map hasn't been updated in a while, when will it be updated? LurkerLordB (Talk) 19:36, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

hi.
Could I join as the Papal states/vatican city? David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 15:44, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

S-N
Is it fine if I play as Sweden-Norway? I Am Walrus (talk) 15:05, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Just be careful about being too biased with either nation towards each other. . . PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:32, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Bukhara War
Russia in bold, Bukhara in italics.

Location

 * At the war: 5: At the War means that the battle is in your nation.
 * Next to the war: 4: Next to the war means that the battle is on or near your border. 

Strength

 * Every ally/nation participating in the battle with defenders or attackers: 3
 * Ottoman Empire, +3, Persia, +3, China +3, France +3
 * Sweden-Norway +3
 * Side with greater population: 6 
 * Side with greater industry: 6 
 * Size of Army: (Nation with a larger army) If attacker has a larger army: 3+ 
 * If attacking army is smaller -3
 * Vice versa for defenders.

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1 
 * Defender’s advantage: 2 
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3 

Random

 * Done using random.org from one to ten
 * Russia: 6
 * Bukhara: 5

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 7
 * To Gain Land: 2 

Result
Russia: 30

Bukhara: 34

Narrow Bukharan victory.

Discussion
Well to be honest did Russia even say they launched their offensive? Just wondering. Ianian58 (talk) 13:48, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

"Russia declares war on Bukhara" was posted by Russia's player. Did China say it was actively supporting Bukhara? Also, RWG, I am not going to let you change your post and recton this war just because you lost if that is what you intend to do. LurkerLordB (Talk) 13:51, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, China is in. He said: "Chinese Armies in the north move towards the richer Russian soil in Siberia, the navy though small but modernized moves upstream to defend from Russian Alaskan-Siberian Navy." And is France going to go in this too? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:18, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I guess I should post Bukhara's gains? I honestly only have one tiny bit of Russia that I want, probably less than whatever I could gain from the algorithm (it would be implausible for Bukhara to take a ton of Russian land). LurkerLordB (Talk) 17:51, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

France is sending troops to support Bukhara. Enclavehunter (talk) 17:56, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think, Lurk, that you can expand Bukhara to the northern border of OTL Kazakhstan as part of your gains. Any gains for the rest of us? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 18:44, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Bukhara doesn't want to have to deal with any more Kazakhs. All I'll take is a little bit in the north to round off my border:



As well as an assurance by Russia that they will never attack again. All of Bukhara's allies can take what's left of the amount of territory that I could gain and divide it amongsth themselves. LurkerLordB (Talk) 20:28, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Atop interfering, seriously. For China, Britain, and France, why will it take you guys to leave the war? --RandomWriterGuy (talk) 20:34, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Listen, they're not going to. They all have their reasons and they can't be bribed. And Britain's not in this. Accept defeat and take it like the Motherland would. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:42, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

RWG, do you know what an alliance is? LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:05, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Stop asking me obvious questions. I already now! --RandomWriterGuy (talk) 22:19, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I really doubt that. You sure don't act like you know it. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:21, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, I am starting t get annoyed by that. --RandomWriterGuy (talk) 22:54, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

If you did know, you would know that they aren't randomly broken just because you ask nicely. If you did know, you would have expected all these nations to help Bukhara if you had actually read what other people posted. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:37, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. And bribing them with land is probably not going to work here. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:41, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

Renewed Olympics, Fair Olympic
Hello everyone, as you all know, Britain has decided to forbid Russia from playing in the Games. This is both unfair and hypocritical, as it goes against the Olympic code.

So anyone wishing to protest these intolerable action, come here and sign the New Olympic Charter, which will establish a new, fair Olympic Games. I propose we name it the Global Olympic Committee, to differentiate ourselves from the offensors. And I propose a motto of Justice and equality for all, transcending any kind of discrimination. What say ye?

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:50, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

People/Nations in favor of abandoning the other Olympics

 * The Ottoman Empire [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:50, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sweden-Norway I Am Walrus (talk) 02:27, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * France Enclavehunter (talk) 02:39, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * United States of America [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. on behalf of Monster Pumpkin 02:44, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Russia (for obvious reasons) RandomWriterGuy (talk) 05:25, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

People/Nations not in favor

 * Greece, while we disaprove of Britian's harsh treatment of Russia (which we warned about), we don't think the Olympics should be abandoned. We heavily recommend to Britian, that they allow Russia to play in the Olympics, especially since the Games of the First Olympiad are about to begin. Stewdio333 (talk) 10:52, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

 * They're over. Russia was not able to participate. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:10, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * And we're not abandoning them, we're creating a new one that is fair to everyone. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:36, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Global Events Change Things
So right, AP, Callum, here's a map for yall. So after we defeat Republican Spain I just want Morroco.

And Callum, here's my proposal for Indochina. You get most of the land.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:15, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm got my eyes on you colonist. Ianian58 (talk) 02:50, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

OK. Don't worry, you can be sure that the Ottomans won't attack China. I can't speak for the Germans and British though. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:52, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

The proposal's fine with me, BUT, last turn I told Denmark they could have a small colony in Cambodia...But only as large as their one in Africa. Does that alter the agreement? (And BTW, we will definitely not attck China) Callumthered (talk) 06:48, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

OK, the Danes can have some of the Southern coast. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 07:10, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but none of that is happening. Check the game page.AP (talk) 15:41, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

can i set colonies in cambodia anyway? and please tell me that now that i have those small colonies can i set colonies or i still can't, please AP awaiting your response Sine dei gloriem (talk) 15:58, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

You keep dreaming AP. And it was a trading post. So just go back and do some research next time, okay? And even if that is my intention for invading Morocco, I can invade it anyways. You can't stop me. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:44, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Not on my watch you won't. And i believe it is you who should keep dreaming mr implausible colonial Ottoman Empire.AP (talk) 21:22, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Then you are a dictator, plain and simple. I am human, I have free will. As many times as you cross it out I will invade it. As many times as your erase it I will repost it. Our mostly cordial relationship is over. And it's a trading post. You evidently don't know the massive difference between trading post and colony. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:26, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

And you're the implausible one, you magically became great friends with your greatest enemy: Napoleon. OUt of everything in this game, that was most implausible. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:27, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I am afraid I will turn to AP on this part. You're empire has grown massive! Way too fast there! And shouldn't there be independence rebellions in the Balkans anyway?

~ RWG

I agree as well, but he sould have retconned that long ago. If he wants to do that now, he'd have to roll back the game quite a bit. And no, I lost Romania and Greece, the rest has been my territory since the 15th Century and totally Islamified. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:32, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Also, AP, you resigned the UK in 1800, what inspired you to take up the helm again? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:41, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Olympics 1868
OK everyone, we're here to vote for the 1868 Olympics. All nations part of the GOC can put up a host city. Except the UK, because they had 1862.

Host city candidates
Maximum of ten candidate cities. One per nation. For fun, you can design a logo like the one for Istanbul. '''Why is it Petrograd? It should still be St Petersburg. Russia only changed it because the suffix -burg in St Petersburg has German roots(this was in the WWI era). No problem though.'''
 * 1) IVRR_Istanbul_1868.pngul, Ottoman Empire
 * 2) *Why: Istanbul is a major financial location in Europe and also the former capital of the Byzantine Empire.
 * 3) Stockholm, S-N Why: Stockholm is a trade hub of Northern Europe and operates cargo routes to GDoM, France, the UK, Denmark, the US, and is pending permission to operate to Japan, China and the Ottoman, and Stockholm is more than capable of hosting an olympiad. I Am Walrus (talk) 04:12, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Mecklenburg, GDoM: It is the capital of Mecklenburg, and de facto capital of the German Confederation. Mecklenburg, and Germany as a whole, is growing into a major world power, and the Grand Duke would like a chance to show off his fine capital to the world. Callumthered (talk) 06:52, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) Petrograd, Russia: Why? It is the capital of Russia, which shows the growing modernity and industrialization of the country. Designed as a Western city, it is filled with palaces and parks and many other beautiful buildings. It is also a major tourist port.

'''Historically it was Petrograd, Russian for Peter's City, named for Peter hte Great. Lenin changed it to Leningrad (what a coincidence) and the Federation made St. Petersburg to cut ties with Imperial Russia and after Peter was canonized as a saint.'''

Voting
Each nation has two delegates. Delegates are named X of the Ottoman Empire and Z of the Ottoman Empire of whatever your nations are named. Literally. X and Z.

Voting will start as soon as the candidate slots are filled and will end after everyone votes.

Voting will be like this: Voting begins now. Time for the Second Round of voting. You are welcome to vote differently this time if you want. You now have X, Y, and, Z, so your votes can have greater diversity if you want. '''This is not proper Olympic procedure. 9 years before the Olympics is when nations place bids, then 7 years before the city is chosen after voting. So if and when we choose this city, they'll only have 2 years to prepare? Just wanted to point that out.AP (talk) 03:23, August 16, 2012 (UTC)'''
 * X of Pangaea votes for Pangaea City while Z votes for Earth City.
 * X and Z of the Ottoman Empire vote for Istanbul.
 * I don't know if we should be able to vote for our own cities(i'm not aquainted with IOC/GOC procedures) but whatever. 
 * X and Z of the United Kingdom vote for Mecklenburg.
 * You vote for your own city if you want.
 * X and Z of Russia vote for Petrograd.
 * X and Z of the United States of America vote for Mecklenburg.
 * X of the German Confederation (the confederation shares a national Olympic Commitee) votes for Mecklenburg, but Y votes for Stockholm (He is a Swedophile) Callumthered (talk)
 * X of the SNOC votes for Stockholm, but Z votes for Mecklenburg (is a Germanophile, and his records indicate he collaborated with GDoM forces in the Karlskrona occupation)
 * X, Y, and Z vote for Istanbul. (How convenient.)
 * X,Y, and Z of the United Kingdom vote for Mecklenburg.

Results
The Results will be announced by moi after the end of voting. I'll roleplay as GOC President Francois de Maximilien.

Olympics 1872
OK everyone, we're here to vote for the 1872 Olympics. All nations part of the GOC can put up a host city. Except the UK, because they had 1862.

Host city candidates
Maximum of ten candidate cities. One per nation. Do not begin nominations until after 1868 voting ends.
 * 1) St. Petersburg Read what's directly above this.

Voting
Each nation has two delegates. Delegates are named X of the Ottoman Empire and Z of the Ottoman Empire of whatever your nations are named.

Voting will start as soon as the candidate slots are filled and will end after everyone votes.

Results
The Results will be announced by moi after the end of voting. I'll roleplay as GOC President Francois de Maximilien.

AP vs. SS
No, not the Schutzstaffel.
 * That's ridiculous an Ottoman colony in Vietnam? When you basically don't have a navy? The Ottoman Empire is not a colonial power. And for the Spain thing the rebels hold Morocco sorry if i didnt make it clear on what they had. They had the south(southern Spain and by default Morocco)and the east. We all know you wanted Morocco so you just invaded anyway. Why don't you just help for helping? Morocco is Spain's last colony, taking it away would do them harm.
 * Who are you and what the hell are you talking about? A: I'm doing it with German support. B: The Ottoman Empire has like the seventh or eighth most powerful navy. And C: Don't cross out what I do. I want it, yeah, who gives a crap? You're metagamin.
 * You could be supported by aliens and still not have a colony. The Ottoman Empire has never had a strong navy, and you havent mentioned expansion or anything for that matter. The Monarchists control Morocco, they don't need you invading them or helping at all they can handle it. Your posts can be crossed out just like anybody else; It seems to me you think you're above everyone else everywhere throughout the site.AP (talk) 21:08, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why don't you go open a book and read a little bit? In case you don't know, the Ottomans had one of the best navies since the 1600s, although slowly they've been moving down the list. What does expansion have to do with this? In OTL in only had great losses because of the Crimean War against Britain France, and Russia, and that didn't happen, and the Greek Revolution, but Ilet Greece go anyways, so my navy is still in top ten. I defeated Venice, Rome, and won Cyprus and the Balkans histroically and you're telling me I can't defeat a puny weak nation named Vietnam? My foot. It's a god damn trading post. Do you even know what that is? And so now Mecklenburg support means nothing? And where the hell is your algorithm for the invasion of Spain? Nowhere. Before you start talking about winning, go and see if you can actually win. Then come back to me about Morocco. And of course you can cross my stuff out, but you have a degree of plausibility in it efore you do it. The entirety of my post was not worth crossing out, maybe half of it was, the Moroccan bit. You still are metagaming. And as for the last bit there, well this is coming from the guy who acts like the dictator of this game.
 * You still need to have respect for other mods' decisions. Clearly you don't because you uncrossed out your post twice and then changed your post without permission, which is in the rules-something you must abide by as a mod. Your navy stagnated during this period, maybe a page you didnt read. I did not invade Spain, i am sending military aid through friendly monarchist land. Go ahead and start your trading post. Expand it very slowly, as it is your first sort of colony.Don't expect them to like it at all. And respect Danish colonial rights in Cambodia, all of Cambodia. It seems to you maybe that i'm "dictator" of the game-Is it because i post all of the turns and mod events since 1790? Yeah. I really don't see any other mods stepping up and doing what they're supposed to be doing, maybe i should find replacements-at least for RWG because he lost his modship in 1815. After your reply, i'm deleting this discussion;you know i don't believe in keeping these things up.AP (talk) 21:43, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can change my post, because the turn is not over yet. I can add, subtract, or modify as I wish. Simple. And I can get permission from my self. And again, the reasons for stagnation did not happen in this game. So that is not an issue for me. And I am not doing anything to the Danes, what did I do? I'm in Vietnam dammit. And I did do mod posts and start the turn in 62, so I am responsible. If you want us to step up to plate, relax a little and just play the game. We'll flex our powers. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:52, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * You need permission no matter what. Once you post, it's sealed-you can't go back and edit it.That is the end of this discussion. I hereby close this discussion.AP (talk) 22:27, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * CLOSED.
 * Yet another proof of your dictatorship. But OK then, signing off, SS. (No, not the Schutzstaffel.) [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:29, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

'Monarchists'
'Location: 5'

'Strength: 3+3+3+3(British+German aid,British/Spanish control of Spain's waters,and a large Monarchist army)'

'Tactical: 1'

'Motive:5'

'Random: 4'

'Republicans'
'Location: 5'

'Strength: 0'

'Tactical: 2'

'Motive: 5'

'Random: 8'

'Result'
'Monarchists 27 Republicans 20'

Crushing Monarchist victory. The Queen-in exile since inheriting the throne after the Republican coup 30 years ago(Isabella II) returns to the throne. However bigger things are coming for Spain. (Later) The Queen of Spain is married to the UK's Prince of Wales(who is the heir the Ducal throne of Mecklenburg). They have a daughter named Mary Christine(Maria Christina) who will be the heiress to the thrones of the UK,Mecklenburg(Germany), and Spain. 

No.
'''I'm not going to throw away an 80 year old game for a silly little fight RWG. Not happening. That is why i erased to the atrocious voting booth you set up here.AP (talk) 23:29, August 14, 2012 (UTC)'''

Map Issues
I am very sorry, but I am have to criticize the map right here. I think the African colonialsm thing has been implausibly latley. I mean, look at a map of the 1860s and you would realize that not even Europeans reached this extent. SHould we reduce it to make it more plausible? RandomWriterGuy (talk) 10:44, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

It's similair to OTL to be honest, and plus, there has barely been any (major) wars which expanded colonization. Ianian58 (talk) 00:11, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. Ian read my mind. AP (talk) 00:17, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

What goes up...
...Must come down.

I think it is time that we adhered to LurkerLordB's great words of wisdom and looked at several things here. Monster Pumpkin (talk) 08:56, August 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Several of the Empired in the game need to have some kind of ethnic/seperatist conflict now. More specifically, France and the Ottoman Empire. They comprise multiple ethnic groups, and it would be impossible to maintain their hold on all of them. Also, if Austria broke up because of the same reason, then other countries should be suffering the same problem. You can't conquer the world by yourself, guys. It just cannot happen.
 * 2) Now I hate to rain on everybody's parade, but this new superpower, the "United Kingdom of Great Britain, Ireland, Germany, and Spain, cannot reasonably exist for a long period of time. Several factors that are just to large to defeat, such as:
 * 3) *Language Barrier. At least three languages (English, German, and Spanish) would have to be legal, recognized languages.
 * 4) *Religious Barrier: This one is the biggest. On one side you have the Catholic Spain, Ireland, and Southern Germany, and on the other you have Protestant Britain and northern Germany. Very doubtful that this union would work along those lines.
 * 5) *Trust Barrier: Where is the capital going to be? Because I garuntee you, whereever it is, someone will be unhappy. If it is in Spain, northern Germany and Britain get upset. If it is in Britain, then Spain gets upset.
 * 6) *International Barrier: Does anyone think that France, soon to be cornered on three sides, would let this happen? Or Russia, now faced with a united, strong front against Germany? Or the Ottoman Empire, struggling to hold on to its many autonomus regions, will simply allow the greatest colonial power to emerge without a fight? Or even the United States, ready to let a new superpower dominate world trade and threaten it from the North?
 * 7) Simply put, it cannot happen for an extended period. I'm surprised it will form at all.

France has suffered rebellions but none have succeeded. The Ottomans have seen the break away of Greece and Romania; if you've been reading the mod events, you'll see that the Balkans are about to have a revolution. Its not extremely centralized, the nations will keep being the same yet now they will be home nations of a single state. The home nations will be very devolved, like the Scottish today. The languages are official languages ''where they are spoken. ''Union transcends religion, those who would hate that would be regarded as extremists/radicals. There is no set capital. France is an ally, Russia can be taken down, so can the Otts, and the US cant do much(its not a superpower, the UK is the only superpower right now). Besides the US is an ally. So yeah those points were sort of good points but we had already thought of them and resolved them. I'll be removing this when your done reading, i dont like keeping complaints/arguements up.AP (talk) 15:49, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

BTW they'll retain their militaries,legislatures, everything. They are still their own nations. It is too late for full political union, we are all constitutional monarchies.AP (talk) 16:57, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Look. First of all AP, Monster has a very good point. Want to see the causes of World War I and the decline of colonialsm after World War II? The same thing will eventually happen in this game.

However, some of the inevitable CAN be prevented. For example, any multi-ethnical nations (like Russia) can establish reforms, allowing ethnic minorities some identity (kind of like the USSR). And of course, the United Kingdom of Britain, Spain, Ireland, and Germany will MOST likley NOT be tolerated by France and Russia for geopolitical reasons. RandomWriterGuy (talk) 18:48, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree and disagree, to all of you.

A: France, with the Napoleonic Code, the Grand Armee, and a massive navy inherited from the Bourbons, will not face much rebellion, and is as much of a superpower as Britain. So AP, maybe you should consider that Pax Francia ended but did not result in the beginning of Pax Britannica ATL.

B: The Balkans and Africa I have divived into a crapload of dominions, leaving the main Empire to only Arabia, Anatolia, and the Golden Horn. The rest is all dominionated. (No, not dominated, dominionated. Not related to world domination and/or dominoes.)

C: AP, you are completely wrong about that. You couldn't be more wrong. After Charlotte dies, we have William on the throne. He is the Duke of Germany and will become King of England, forcing the UK and Germany into one nation. No more seperation for Germany and the UK. Then the new UKGermany will unite with Spain into EnglandGermanySpain after Mary becomes Queen. So you might as well force everyone into atheism and build a cpaital in the central location of Switzerland. So MP is right here. Union will not transcend religion at all. Go ask some of the PM players who have been in dynastic union for hundreds of years.

D: RWG, do me (and everyone) a favor and shut the hell up. You don't know the meaning of alliance, autocracy, or rebellion at all, as it seems. You always talk in favor of yourselves, acting like that is the truth, when all your words are stuffed to the brim with total bias. Russia is a frakking absolute monarchy and will never give anyone equal rights. It's best for us to start a rebellion in your country, then you'll be forced to give people rights, then youcould od tons more stuff.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:11, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Religion will be a problem, but it won't tear the country apart. Religious tolerance will be a big part of this, thus the religion haters and others will be extreme minorities and will most likely end up becoming terrorists bent on destroying the union(nothing bad intended).Everything else is fine, the monarch will be British/German/Spanish(William is half Brit half German, Mary is all of the above). Yes please RWG just quit with your bias. Try and ruin the Union and expect Russia to become a province of Germany. The capitals are as they were before union, separate. With that, we have three separate capitals(London,Madrid,Mecklenburg or Berlin whatever Callum wants). I believe this resolves most of the points except religion which,as stated above, will not be a great problem. AP (talk) 19:23, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

AP, that can't happen, After your crowns merge, you'll need to merge all your governments too, because you'll have one monarch. One monarch cannot be in control of three "seperate" nations, one monarch cannot live in one place and control two others, and religion will remain an obstacle.'

Wait, wait, wait, never mind all that! Isabella was Catholic! How did she marry a Protestant prince! This could never happen! The Church would never allow this! Didn't you guys think of this? Holy crap, your whole nation just got screwed!

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:29, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Stop yelling at each other. It won't get us anywhere.

France should be having some major problems in Italy. Napoleon conquered all of Italy. Since they are not divided, they will now be fighting for their independence. Always have.

Unfortunatly Scraw, expect those dominions to be lost fast. You are facing the two of the biggest problems to maintaining an empire: religious and ethnic differences. They don't care that you gave them home rule. They don't want to be affiliated with you.

Religious tolerance did not help with Ireland, now did it? Furthermore, do you think that the Spanish, Irish, or Southern Germans would be content under a protestant king? The Spanish in particular.

This potential hyperpower has little potential of ''being. ''

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 22:05, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Erm, above all that, a Catholic Queen would not or could not marry a Protestant prince.

Hey, it worked with the British Raj, why can't I do it with Serbs and Bulgarians? I even let them remain as an Orthodox Government.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:12, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I won't say would not. Love does miracles sometimes. Could not, I agree with.

The Raj suffered quite a few rebellions. Expect yours to experience the same. The only difference here though, your army is not as large or advanced as Britain's is, and suppose another nation decides to intervene?

I have to go. Good talking with all.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 22:20, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Right, right, could not. No would not.

Well my army is definitely stronger than that of Serbia or Bulgaria. Nothing like India's massive population versus Britain's army.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:27, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Don't have to go.

But what if they teamed up together? And they had Russia on their side? That's how they became independent friend.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 22:43, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Great.

Well then I can get France, Bukhara, and the other dominions.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:51, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I think you people are overestimating the whole religion thing in the potential GB/G/S union. The Catholic Bavarians, Badenses and Wurrtemburgers managed just fine under the Protestant German Kaiser in otl. The troubles in Ireland were not ENTIRELY religous in cause: I think a bigger sticking point was the utter lack of representation which the Irish had in parliament, which was compounded by the fact that Protestants had all the power. It also needs to be noted that not every nation is built on religion. If the new nation's constitution had complete separation of the Church and state, it shouldn't really be an issue. With regards to the marriage... The thing is that it happened under extraordinary circumstances. Isabella was NOT the reigning monarch at the time of the marriage, merely a pretender to the throne of a republic. When you are a royal pretender, I think you would be happy enough that the Crown prince of Britain and Germany proposed that you would forget the small difference in religion. Callumthered (talk) 23:05, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Erm, that last part, highly dubitable. Neither church would allow it, and royalty needs the chruch's permission to marry. And if they did marry without permission, the people of both religions would revolt. And so that is a no. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:13, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the huge complaint MP. The nations are secular, not built on religion as Callum said. The people wouldnt revolt and there are the fine examples that he provided to prove it. This is the modern age and the country is a constitutional monarchy, the Prime Minister and the respective legislatures of each realm are the people that are still in charge of running their realms. Queen Elizabeth belongs to the Church of England, do you see the Scots revolting because she's not affiliated with them? Do you see North Ireland revolting? NO. Why? because the government is secular! If Mitt Romney gets elected, would all Muslims/Hindus/Catholics revolt because he's Mormon? NO. Why? Because the government is secular! See what i'm saying? MP all of your points have been overturned, so this conversation is completed. AP (talk) 23:24, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless, a Catholic lady cannot marry a Protestant prince. The churchs would never allow it. Even if they're not built on religion, marriage between Protestant and Catholic royalty would not be tolerated, and the Catholic church would turn every Catholic nation against you as would the Protestant church. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:28, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

This isn't a complaint. It is an intellectual debate regarding the course of this game.

Secular government does not prevent religious conflict. Like Ireland, India, or other nations. And you are talking about combining Spain and Britian together, two major religious and political rivals.

It is only completed when all issues are met.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 23:36, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

And again, you can't marry royalty from two seperate churches. Really, AP, do you know nothing about a religion that is possibly yours?

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:38, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

The Habsburgs married everybody and i mean everybody, nobody revolted.You don't need permission. In Great Britain, any member of the Royal family can marry with the consent of the reigning monarch. Of course she agreed. As for the churches it would elevate both their statuses. Besides this isnt the Middle Ages, the Church isnt as powerful. This is happening people. MP really seems to have a stake in this.Hm. AP (talk) 23:41, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

And I reiterate: When Isabella married, she was a penniless pretender to a throne which had not existed for some thirty years. I think the Pope has more important things (ie: running the Catholic Church) to worry about than some Catholic nobody marrying a Protestant Prince. (BTW, What IS the Pope's situation in TTL? Since Italy is entirely French...Where is he?) And with regard to "you can't marry royalty from two separate churches", that is obviously wrong. How on earth could the British royals continue without marrying Lutherans, Calvinists, Orthodoxes and Catholics? Callumthered (talk) 23:46, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

You just proved my point, Callum. The French dominated Catholic Church would never ever allow England, Germany, and Spain unite and surround them. And Callum, I am right. They can marry all those others, but Orthodox, Catholics, and protestant don't go together. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:56, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Germany and Britain can unite regardless. And, since we're on the topic of religion TTL, how did Catholic Spain, Austria and Portugal allow the Pope to become "French dominated"? Wouldn't THAT cause some significant dispute? And I don't remember the French player actually doing the whole Concordant with the Pope...Are the Bonapartes Catholic at all in TTL? Callumthered (talk) 00:01, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

Olympic Games 1876 and 1880
OK, I have to rush cause we're a bit off schedule.

I'm tossing '76 to Stockholm (Congrats, Walrus.)

I'm tossing '80 to Istanbul. (Congrats, me. I did this with an RNG in case anyone thinks I did that for myself.)

Now then, to bidding!

Olympic Games 1884
Ineligible cities: London, Meckklenburg, Philly, Stockholm, Istanbul

Eligible cities: Any city not in those countries.

Bids
Post your bids here.