Board Thread:Timeline Discussions/@comment-25387190-20140926151715/@comment-25387190-20141023163126

First of all, thanks for all the contributions. Really are very interesting for discussions.

Sine dei gloriem: as Spaniard I have to recognize that the discussion about the Iberian Peninsula is essential not only for Europe, but also the Americas.Well, from the late 7th century there was a division between the Visigothic clans and the Visigothic kingdom was in decline due to plague, famine and drought that provoked a significant loss of population (demographic crisis). The scene at the beginning of the 8th century was of a very weak Visigothic kingdom plunged in a civil war. In addition, it is known that the faction of the nobility of Witiza's descendants helped the Moorish initially. Indeed, Toledo was conquered in less than a year since the invasion and in the southeastern peninsula (present-day Murcia and Valencia) the count Theudimer swore allegiance to the Muslim emir Abd al-Aziz ibn Musa.On the other hand, Visigothic law was very hostile against the Sephardic Jews of the Iberian Peninsula and they look favorably not only the Muslims, but also the Moorish because they professed Judaism for proselytizing and miscegenation.

Thus, I imagine an unified strong Moorish power whose melting-pot originated a special branch of Christianism based in the heresies of Donatus Magnus and Arius. The Donatism was spread in the Roman provinces of Numidia and Mauretania from 4th century and was a puritane version of early Christianism (previous to the Nicene Creed). The Arianism, besides it was the Christian heresy that Visigoths were adherent until king Reccared I, did not follow the Nicene Creed and the Holy Trinity. It is possible that a melting-pot Christianism with a strong Jewish influence played the same role that the Islam between the Moors in OTL. In fact, this Moorish heresy would play the national role that the Monophysite heresy played in Egypt and Syria against Constantinople.

Then, a strong army led by a good militars (as you can see, the character of Tikfarin is based on Tariq ibn Ziyad) would be conquest the major part of the Iberian Peninsula. The one difference would be the case of king Achila II. In OTL, Achila II was a Visigothic king that did not recognize king Roderic as Witiza's successor and he reigned independly in northeastern Tarraconensis (present-day Aragon and Catalonia) and Narbonesis (present-day Languedoc, in France). In this ATL, Achila II could not recover the territories conquered by the Moors, but he could resist the Moorish invasion and could be the origin of a Pyrenean nation similar to Catalan-Occitan. However, I assumed that he was defeated by the Moors as in the OTL and the whole Visigothic kingdom was conquered except the Cantabrian Mountains (Basques and Latinized tribes of Asturias and Cantabria that founded the kingdom of Asturias).Thus, the "Reconquista" would not be very different than in OTL (indeed, I put approximately intact).

Turk invasions is another interesting issue. There were invasions from 6th century and all the major Persianates and dynasties (Ghaznavids, Ghurids, Seljukians, Khwarazmians and Safavids) were of a Turkic origin (indeed, the Azerbaijani people are descendent of them). Somewhat, the Turkic invasions in Middle East were as the Germanic invasions in Western Europe. Thus, I imagine a mixture between Turkic peoples with Persians (adherents to Mazdaism), Anatolian Greeks (adherents to the Orthodox Christianity) and Kurds (adherents to Yazidism) but also as new Turkic peoples that adapted cultural features where they started to settle (Azerbaijanis as Mazdaists). However, there is a question that I can not solve: the Turkic peoples of Crimea, Caucasus, Kazakhstan and Turkestan. I imagine the Mongol invasions as in the OTL and the Turkified khanates successors of the Mongol Empire based on nomadic Turkic peoples. I think that there are three possibilities:

1) The Russian conquest and subsequent Russification of these nomadic Turkic peoples. Thus, they changed their Tengrianism by Russian Orthodoxy faith. It is the most plausible option.

2A) The unification in a Turkish khanate with capital in Crimea. This Turkish Empire would follow a national religion that would have served as a unifying agent for a Turkish nation. I imagine a religious syncretism of Yazidism, Mazdaism, Manicheanism and Abrahamic religions with polytheistic Tengrist roots: Alevism (nothing to do with OTL's Alevism except the pre-Islamic Turkic influence) as a monotheistic religion with a divinity with features of the Abrahamic God and Ahura Mazda.

2B) The influence that the Church of the East had in Turkestan would establish the Nestorian Christian faith as the main between the Turkish. It could cause that Nestorian Christianity becomes the national religion of the Turks. Thus, it could originate a Turkish Empire as in 2A or the key by the unification of the Turks through a nationalist revival in 19th century and the independence from the Russians after the February revolution.

Well, what do you think?