Talk:Great White South

Archives: Contest • Geography • History &amp; Wars

New Swabia
When is someone going to get to creating an article for New Swabia?

Yankovic270 00:52, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

First off let me say that this is a unique and interesting timeline. However I have to question the plausibility of New Swabia. I doubt that the Germans would have enough time to establish this colony, or anything other than a small military base in the time mentioned here. 5 years or less is not enough time to start any kind of permanent settlement, let alone one big enough to become its own country. Further more it seems weird that a democratic country would still use fascist symbols.

I still think this page might be able to work. My suggestion is that New Swabia or a similar country is established sometime during the German Colonial Empire. This would give it more time to be established. It could also give us a longer history section, concerning what happened in the colonial era and during WWI and its aftermath. Later on it could ally itself with Germany during WWII. Anyways is anyone interested in my idea?--ShutUpNavi 02:30, April 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like the idea. I am not much of a German historian, but a Russian historian. If you have any interest in working on New Swabia, you can if you want. —NuclearVacuum 19:45, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Thank You. When I get the chance I think I will take you up on that offer.--ShutUpNavi 20:16, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Blank map is here


Good news everybody. I have created a vector image showing all the nations of Antarctica. It's quite easy to use. You can use it by using Inkscape or a word processor. --NuclearVacuum 21:44, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've put together an Orthographic blank map, too. - Mister Sheen 11:09, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, guys. I put a section on the map pages about how to get around using compass headings in Antarctica. The "blank map" here (and the ones filled in the articles) are oriented along the meridian-antimeridian line (north-south) and the 90 degrees E & W (east-west) line. This is the orientation being used in the articles, but I felt the clarification might be good for those occasional readers that will be visiting this month due to the "Featured" status. Keep up the good work. SouthWriter 19:28, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, guys. I put a section on the map pages about how to get around using compass headings in Antarctica. The "blank map" here (and the ones filled in the articles) are oriented along the meridian-antimeridian line (north-south) and the 90 degrees E & W (east-west) line. This is the orientation being used in the articles, but I felt the clarification might be good for those occasional readers that will be visiting this month due to the "Featured" status. Keep up the good work. SouthWriter 19:28, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, South, the compass points on a South Pole-oriented map have been bugging me for a while. East and West are still there, defined by the Greenwich Meridian / International Date Line; but everything outwards is North, and everything inwards is South. I was considering using "Upper Antarctica" and "Lower Antarctica", but it wouldn't exactly work (eg. "New Swabia is west of Eduarda and further up than Maudland"). - Mister Sheen 21:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Whatss?
sorry, i not read complety the tl, aniway, i am working in spanish althistory, i cant help you here now, but have fun bro--Fero 23:17, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * but you need do a version of wikipedia:climate to this TL because is deep relevant
 * temperature, ¿how cold or/and hot is there? is like alaska? like siberia? like iceland? iceland is in a more ecuatorial geografic position, fot this is more hot.
 * is your antartic continent in the same geografic position that in real world souther of 60ºS? I think if Plate tectonics move in the right way and Antartic end more "near" southafrica, them history change, them human life can go to antartic, current antartic is almost sow human habitable like moon
 * you say antartic colonization start in 1900, ¿spanish empire do nothing there? i see your argentine chilean aportation in ther but spain should be around in there in that time, i think


 * Well if you read the timeline, it does answer several of your questions. The temperature is much like Siberia and or Alaska. Antarctica is in the same geological position as in OTL. The POD in this timeline is an unknown event like an asteroid/comet impact or a volcanic eruption caused the southern hemisphere to warm up more, allowing Antarctica to go through longer periods of being ice-free (much like North America and Europe). Antarctic colonization started in the mid to late 19th century (the 1800s). Since a Russian explorer discovered the continent, Russia would have much more claim and knowledge of Antarctica. I personally know very little about the Spanish Empire, but if you would like to make some contributions, feel free to (this timeline is open to all). --NuclearVacuum 15:32, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Byrdia
I am thinking of expanding this article, but I have to know, why is it called Byrdia? Mitro 14:56, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Richard Byrd, American Antarctic Explorer, if I'm not mistaken; though John Davis and Nathaniel Palmer were also Americans, and they each beat Byrd to Antarctica by over a century. - Mister Sheen 15:11, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, is there any other information I should know about Byrdia? I have recently expanded the article and I tried to incorporate everything that was canon. [EDIT] Speaking of Byrd, he did not even travel to Antarctica in OTL until 1928, six years after Byrdia was named after him in this ATL. Seems a little weird. Mitro 15:20, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, that really doesn't make sense. The Timeline should probably change. Anyway, I always thought that an American Antarctic colony would likely be named "Jefferson", or "Franklin's Land", or after another Founding Father. But to be honest, there isn't much set down about Byrdia; except that it used to be Russian, so there is an element of Russian culture there; and there will presumably a small Russian-speaking segment of the population. - Mister Sheen 15:32, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Instead of going and changing everything in the TL, maybe we can come up with a better solution that requires less editing. How about this: the territory was actually called "West Antarctica" or "American Antarctica" and Byrd was the first governor-general, who pushed for major colonization in the area. After his term ended, the territory was renamed Byrdia in his honor. Thoughts? Mitro 15:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well technically, I named the region Byrdia after Marie Byrd Land, and I wasn't the one who decided to make it an American colony either. But as I said earlier, I wanted others to have fun with it. So technically, if you have interest in renaming or changing the region from what I originally wrote down, I have nothing against it at all. --NuclearVacuum 15:05, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only thing I changed was having the territory originally being called the "Territory of Western Antarctica" and than having it be renamed Byrdia after Byrd's term as Governor-General ended. Other than that I tried keeping the article within canon, but if you have any ideas about the rest of the history I would be glad to hear it. Right now I think the Russians will eventually stop being a marginalized class either in the 60s or 70s. Byrdia will also vote for independence in the 80s and sign a free association compact with the US similar to Micronesia. I was also toying with a "Green Revolution" after the news of the ozone hole being reported. Essentially a new green political party will win a majority in Byrdia. Mitro 02:48, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

When I first started working on the Byrdia article, it was written in the infobox that Spanish was a major language of the nation (not official, but spoken enough to get referenced in the profile). Now that I have flushed out the article more I can't figure out how this is possible. I know they share a border with Santiago, but I can't figure out a good reason why there would be so many Spanish speakers in Byrdia. Thoughts? Mitro 15:01, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, there doesn't seem to be any way that Hispanophones would be very prominent at all. Hispanics might have arrived through the US, but even then, most of them would probably speak English. In fact, I can't see Spanish being realistically spoken anywhere except Santiago. - Mister Sheen 15:53, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Template
I have created a proposed template for the TL. Feel free to edit it. Mitro 19:34, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ooh, I like it. Sorry, but I have been busy lately and haven't had much time to be creative here. So forgive me if I am sounding rushed. --NuclearVacuum 15:06, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

September
Hey guys, my random selector picked Great White South to be featured for the month of September on the main page. Here is what I wrote up to appear on the main page. Please feel free to edit it if you want. Mitro 17:00, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Very nice. I am still flabbergasted that one of my random timeliness would have becomes as popular as GWS. --NuclearVacuum 17:50, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well according to Wikia its September, that means this TL is now featured on the main page. Mitro 01:24, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sport
I'm thinking about a "Sport in Antarctica" article. Cricket and Rugby would probably become popular in the British areas; and Baseball and American Football would be the major sports in Byrdia. I think Soccer would be universal to the Continent (as it is to most Continents); and Ice Hockey would be very popular, too.

Soccer would be popular, but I don't think any Antarctican country would host a world cup. FIFA likes to have world cup in June or July, would would put it in the coldest part of the Antarctic winter. A World Cup in Antarctica would have to be at another time of the year, which throw

the schedules of the rest of the various world leagues off. I think a world cup in Antarctica would likely be in January or February. Chilly8 00:01, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

And of course, non-team sports like Golf, Tennis and Running are practised in basically every country in the World, so why would Antarctica be any different? - Mister Sheen 11:10, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wrote something in the news feed about curling being popular. Mitro 13:46, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a good point, I completely overlooked pretty much all of the Winter Sports, which would definitely be the staple passtimes of Antarctica. - Mister Sheen 14:13, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

What about figure skating on the continent? With Bellinsguanezia being a former Russian colony, I could see figure skating taking hold on the continent. I could see Bellinsguanezia and New Schawvia becoming figure skating powers on the continent. Chilly8 00:09, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

As far as skating goes, I could see a couple of top OTL Russian coaches, going to Bellinguanezia and coaching there after the fall of the USSR, and several Russian skaters, including Oksana Baiul, emigrating there and skating for there. 69.12.224.40 07:55, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

I have one idea for sport in Anarctica. Make this year's Commonwealth Games in Eduarda. I chose Eduarda, becuase the time zone I assigned it, in creating FlightSim AI traffic, with the DST offset for summer, puts it only 1/2 hour behind India. Cookstown would be at GMT+5, while Delhi, site of the OTL Commonweath Games, is at GMT+5.5. I am thinking of posting items in the latest news section just as if the Games were being held in Cookstown, Eduarda. Chilly8 19:40, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Can I suggest that the Olympic flag would have an extra ring to symbolise Antarctica? Fegaxeyl 15:08, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ognian names for Byrdia
I am trying to come up with some Ognian geographic names for the subdivisions of Byrdia. Any suggestions? Mitro 17:56, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * There isn't much of a constructed language so far, but the articles "" and "" give some examples of Ognian placenames, and you can basically use that as a base, and invent the rest. The suffix "-ar" seems to mean "region", so Byrdian States with Ognian names might end "-ar".
 * I think there should be some English language placenames as well as the Ognian ones (and possibly a few Russian ones), though. - Mister Sheen 16:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

It was implyed that after the territory that soon would become known as Byrdia was created, the vast majority (if not all) place names were "Americanized". There could be a few places that were recently Onianized and Russianized.

Yankovic270 17:52, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

End to the Ross Dependency?
Hello all. I have been doing some thinking and I wanted to place it on the table before anything goes. Anyway, I have been doing some thinking about the Ross Dependency here on GWS. I am going to say it, I personally don't like the idea anymore, and was thinking about ending it with a party, so to speak. I am thinking about dissolving it into maybe into thee nations. Here is my idea.


 * 1) Ross Island, Scott Island, and the Balleny Islands would remain in the Realm of New Zealand. Maybe as their own nations (much like Niue) or as a federation of islands.
 * 2) The mainland would be annexed by Bellinsgauzenia (since it was historically Russian).

I am not suggesting that this be historic, but rather taking place in the now. I have mentioned on the page that the mainland of the Ross Dependency was under similar unrest that New Devon faced by pro-Bellinsgauzenian forces. But what do you all think of the idea? --NuclearVacuum 00:52, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind, really. Though it seems like the kind of thing which would have happened 10 or 20 years ago, it would be good to finally have a current event in this Timeline. I like the idea of Bellinsgauzenia annexing further Russian areas; and the idea of a New Zealander island nation.
 * Just one question: if New Zealand has governed an area as large as Rossland for almost 100 years, there are going to be quite a few Kiwis in the area - what happens to them? Perhaps New Zealand could retain a single, small port; so it has more access to the Antarctic mainland, and so there is a place for the New Zealand—Antarcticans to move to.
 * That would certainly sweeten the deal, from New Zealand's perspective. - Mister Sheen 16:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm... I think I have an interesting idea. Bellinsgauzenia has no real beef with New Zealand, the RCA (pro-Bellinsgauzenian terrorist group) does. I am thinking that maybe Bellinsgauzenia would allow a temporary period for the New Zealander settlements to remain under New Zealand occupation, but I am sure Bellinsgauzenia would feel welcome to new immigrants. I need to make a section on it, but I predict Bellinsgauzenia to be a nation of mixed cultures (much like the US). Russian-speaking black people and so on (I am not politically correct). But what would come of the three islands? Maybe I should leave that open for more debate here. What sounds better, three new nations, or one federal nation. --NuclearVacuum 17:15, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean Bellinsgauzenia would be opposed to having New Zealanders living there; I just thought that some New Zealanders (probably the majority of them) would prefer to keep their citizenship. They wouldn't be able to out-vote the Russians, but they might have some kind of impact - though on the mainland, in the long run, I doubt that New Zealand could ever keep control of more than one or two individual towns.
 * As for the islands, the Balleny Islands have been New Zealand's since the 1800s - in fact, they would probably remain a separate Dependency from Rossland, throughout their history. Ross island might become a continuation of the Ross Dependency (along with any mainland areas which New Zealand possibly keeps). Scott island could join either of the others, or become its own Dependency. - Mister Sheen 17:58, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * If Bellinsgauzenia is expanding into former Russian territory, what will this mean for the Russian minority living in Byrdia, and Byrdia-Bellinsgauzenia relations? Mitro 21:43, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think Byrdia has anything to worry about. One of the reasons that Bellinsgauzenia was able to gain the region is because of its geography. The region is located within the Transanatarctic Mountains, plus the region would be close to the south pole. Though New Zealand settlements would have been formed in the region, most of the infrastructure is located on the islands. There wouldn't have been enough resources to allow the total anglanization of the region, so it would be very easy for it to become Bellinsgauzenia. Also, Bellinsgauzenia doesn't have any real grudge against Byrida, and I think the two nations would have a good relationship. I have been meaning to write about it, but I see Bellinsgauzenia as being a US supporter during the Cold War. I think the Bellinsgauzenian-Byrdian relationship is pretty favorable, despite Byrdia once being Russian territory. --NuclearVacuum 01:34, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Time Zones
After considering how to get around on the continent, I got to thinking of the timestamps on News Reports. Just what time is it on the bottom of the world? (FYI - The South Pole is an NZST, New Zealand time)

Anyway to the right is the map for the time zones in OTL. I suppose they'd be the same in TTL. Of course, with most of the continent being inside the antarctic circle, summers (October - February) would be mostly daylight and winters (May - August) would be mostly night. One can only wonder if this might cause interesting social problems (irregularities) might arise in a society of like this (study Iceland, and Alaska for clues). SouthWriter 03:16, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

At least one Antarctic country, Ognia, would cover more than one time zone. Ognia, itself, would cover 3 time zones, because of where all its territory is. The way I figure it, Stanley, in the Falkland Islands would be two hours ahead of the national capital in Qouar. and some other islands to the east of that would be another hour east of that.

Santiago would be UTC-3 in the winter, then go to UTC-2 from October to April for daylight savings time. As I create flight simulator AI traffic and schedules with Ultimate Traffic, that is the time zone I have assigned to the country of Santiago. Chilly8 00:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Daylight Savings Time???? Excuse me, but this is inside the Antarctic circle!! Their summer would already have incredibly long days anyway. From what I can tell, the time zones are based on the "time back home" in OTL. In TTL much of the same phenomenon might apply at first. However, to be fair to the citizenry each nation in TTL would probably elect to go with one time zone (probably the center one of three) for simplicity's sake, just as Chilly8 has done. By the way, Chil, can you take the ice away using the simulator? --SouthWriter 02:37, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well, as I create AI traffic and schedules in Flight Simulator and Ultimate Traffic, I have assigned DST for October through April for airports in Ognia and and Santiago, but not in any of the other Antarctic countries. I have those two countries on DST during summer, because parts of those countries are above the Antarctic circle. OTL Alaska, Russia, and Scanindiavia use DST. Chilly8 06:19, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Looking at these atlases (even though they don't show all of Antarctica), the Antarctic Circle covers almost the entire Continent, except for a small portion of Ognia; so I don't think Daylight Savings would be an issue. - Mister Sheen 08:47, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the maps, Sheen, they made my point. Chilly, the reason Alaska, Russia, and Scandinavia use DST is because the majority of those political entities are below the Arctic circle. With Alaska it is dealing with what would be literally three time zones (45 degrees in longitude) chosing one to share with Hawaii far to the south. Russia, as I understand it, is on DST all year long (being two hours ahead in the summer!). The nations known as Scandanavia all belong to the EU and thus by law observe DST.
 * In TTL, Ognia reaches out to the tip of Chile and the Falklands, but the bulk of the nation is inside the Antarctic circle. Santiago is totally inside the circle. Being independent, for the most part, of other nations, It follows that the nations would only use DST if it were to their advantage. With 24 hour a day light in their summer (Oct. thru Apr.), their is no "Daylight" to save. Farmers and others industries would have to be held by law from working folk TOO long, not allowing more hours to do the work. SouthWriter 20:03, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thinking that perhaps the nations of the continent might wish to operate in regular time zones of their own, I devised this proposed time zone map. It is based on the time zone that "disects a nation or region of a nation. Each meridian shown represents two hours on a twenty-four hour "day."
 * Thinking that perhaps the nations of the continent might wish to operate in regular time zones of their own, I devised this proposed time zone map. It is based on the time zone that "disects a nation or region of a nation. Each meridian shown represents two hours on a twenty-four hour "day."
 * Thinking that perhaps the nations of the continent might wish to operate in regular time zones of their own, I devised this proposed time zone map. It is based on the time zone that "disects a nation or region of a nation. Each meridian shown represents two hours on a twenty-four hour "day."
 * Thinking that perhaps the nations of the continent might wish to operate in regular time zones of their own, I devised this proposed time zone map. It is based on the time zone that "disects a nation or region of a nation. Each meridian shown represents two hours on a twenty-four hour "day."
 * Thinking that perhaps the nations of the continent might wish to operate in regular time zones of their own, I devised this proposed time zone map. It is based on the time zone that "disects a nation or region of a nation. Each meridian shown represents two hours on a twenty-four hour "day."

Nature of the event causing the divergence
One possibility:

A suitably located volcano erupts, and sets off the meltdown and/or contributes to the creation of a hole in the ozone layer. Then a comet in a peculiar orbit interacts with the magnetosphere and part gets sucked down towards Antarctica.

How feasible is 'any or all of this'? Jackiespeel 18:15, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm no astrophysicist, but I don't think the earth's magnetosphere "sucks" astroids out of orbit. A super volcano, though, would have about the same affect as a large astroid impact and the residual volcanic activity on the continent would help to keep the surface relatively ice free. I'd say the volcano was not just "suitably placed," but huge! Look up Yellowstone National Park to read about the effects of a supervolcano. All you need now is an international study in TTL that finds evidence of this dormant volcano (perhaps even "over due" for eruption like Yellowstone is today. SouthWriter 21:12, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is one possibillity, the Taupo supervolcano in New Zealand. It is a supervolcano that is far enough south to affect Antarctica. It had its last VEI8 level eruption about 26,000 years ago. It is possible that Taupo could, in this AH, have affected Antarctica, perhaps increasing
 * atmospherioc CO2 enough in the southern hemisphere to warm it up enough for the antarctic ice sheets to melt. Chilly8 01:58, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is one possibillity, the Taupo supervolcano in New Zealand. It is a supervolcano that is far enough south to affect Antarctica. It had its last VEI8 level eruption about 26,000 years ago. It is possible that Taupo could, in this AH, have affected Antarctica, perhaps increasing
 * atmospherioc CO2 enough in the southern hemisphere to warm it up enough for the antarctic ice sheets to melt. Chilly8 01:58, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

What I meant was 'comet in an Earth-hitting trajectory' (and material entering the Earth's atmospheric and above systems). What effect would a large solar flare have (like the one in the 19th century OTL which disrupted the telegraph system etc)?

Basically - what possible combinations of natural phemomena would there be which would trigger Antarctic meltdown? Jackiespeel 21:35, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Rivers
Looking at the map, I can't help but wonder how many rivers Antarctica has? Mitro 01:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the map, Mitro. Note that some of the rivers go below sea level. Most of the rivers would only flow in the "summer" (winter in northern hemisphere) with all day sunlight and few clouds. It would probably be good for agriculture along the coasts. SouthWriter 15:49, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Airlines
One thing I have been doing in flight simulator is creating AI traffic and schedules as if some of these. I have thought of what airlines might serve the various Antarctic countries. I have already created AI traffic for an "Air Ognia", after figuring out where the various cities would be. For Kerguellen Island, I merely extended the Air France Paris-Antananarivo-Reunion run down to Kerguellen Island. For my "Air Ognia", I created a London-Cape Verde-Stanley run (being that the Falklands are part of Ognia in this TTL). I have a Las Estrellas-Santiago-Los Angeles run as well, on my Air Ognia

I think it we should somehow put it ino this AH what airlines would serve Antarctic cities. Airlines I could see, besides my Air Ognia, serving Antarctic cities would include


 * Air France
 * Qantas
 * Aeroflot
 * LanChile
 * Lufthansa
 * Scadinvavian
 * Aerolineas Argentinas
 * Cubana
 * Air New Zealand
 * AeroMexico
 * Varig
 * South African Airways

Chilly8 23:49, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * First of all, nice work! Why don't you create an "Air Travel in Antarctica (Great White South)" page?
 * I think other Antarctic Nations besides Ognia would have local Airlines, particularly Bellinsgauzenia, Byrdia, Eduarda and New Devon.
 * And there would probably be a tiny Kerguelen 'airline', which just runs flights from Kerguelen to airstrips on the smaller French islands nearby (ie. Crozet, Amsterdam Island, Saint-Paul, and the Scattered Isles). - Mister Sheen 08:58, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am going to work on flight simulator AI traffic, before creating an Air Travel in Antarctica page but I have come up with one idea for an airline. I think an "Air Antarctica", which serve several countries, much like Scandinavian in Europe, Gulf Air in the Mideast, or Taca in Central America, could servce all the Anatarctican countries. Chilly8 03:06, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am going to work on flight simulator AI traffic, before creating an Air Travel in Antarctica page but I have come up with one idea for an airline. I think an "Air Antarctica", which serve several countries, much like Scandinavian in Europe, Gulf Air in the Mideast, or Taca in Central America, could servce all the Anatarctican countries. Chilly8 03:06, September 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Couldn't there be a branch of Luftansa operating out of New Swabia? - Yankovic270 01:41, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is one thing I am looking at in building AI traffic. I am considering putting in a Lufthansa line between Frankfurt and New Swabia, with a refuel step in the Cape Verde Islands. A 747-400 would have just enough range to make it to Cape Verde from New Swabia, making Sal Island the ideal refuel stop on flights between Germany and New Swabia. - Chilly8

Wouldn't continental Africa be the ideal route between Europe and Antarctica? - Mister Sheen 15:26, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

It depends on the route. For example, From Copenhagen, the main SAS hub, to Maudland, it would make sense to refuel in Cape Verde. For some routes, it would make more sense to go through Africa. I took the Air France Paris-Madagascar-Reunion route, and extended it first to the Kerguellen Islands, and then on to Bellinsguaezenia. I also have a route from Johannesburg, South Africa to Cookstown, Eduarda. I basically resurrected an old SAA route that does not exist anymore, the Houston-Sal-Johannesburg run, and extended that to Eduarda, so in TTL, people wishing to fly direct from the USA to Maudland would depart from GW Bush Intercontinental in Houston.

However, with where New Swabia is, and where Germany is, it would probably make more sense for a Lufthansa route from Frankfurt to New Swabia to refuel at Cape Verde.

As for flights from the USA to Maudland, I have created a Miami--Ny Oslo and a JFK-Cape Verde-Oslo route using an SAS 747-400. In OTL SAS got rid of those years ago, but I think in this TL, they would still have them for flights from the USA to Maudland. For west coast flights to Mauland, I am looking at an LAX-Cape Verde-Ny Oslo run. 69.12.224.40 07:52, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

One idea I have is expanding on my Air Ognia idea, and create an Air Antarctica, a multinational airline much like OTL Gulf Air, or Scandinavian, funded by the governments of several countries, which could have a major flight network in Antarctica and serve more of the world. SUch an airline could serve Antarctica well.

Also, I think in TTL, that Australia might well have been colonised by more than one country, similar to what you see the division of Australia in Newfoundlantis. I am assuming that part would have happened this TTL, and I creating AI traffic fo make Qantas a multinational airline, serving all the nations on the Australian continent, and routes to Antarctica Chilly8 03:51, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * is pretty much the same, as it was already consolidated British land before Antarctica was discovered (in 1820). - Mister Sheen 17:57, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Wildlife and Plants of Antarctica
A comment about Penguins on the Nations talk page got me thinking, how does the change to Antarctica's climate affect the native wildlife of the continent? Did some animals evolve differently in this ATL? Furthermore are there any native plants that can only be found on Antarctica? Mitro 15:32, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * What does Alaska have to do with Antarctica? (LOLZ) But I am not too sure. I do picture Antarctica to have a lush evergreen forest, but that is all I came up with so far. --NuclearVacuum 16:00, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow what the hell was I smoking. Sorry about that, I corrected it. Anyway, we have assumed so far that the wildlife on the continent is the same as OTL, but Penguins are probably going to look alot different if their natural habitat includes a lush evergreen forest. Maybe we should be looking at how Greenland looked during Viking times for inspiration. Mitro 20:10, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe the north is like New Zealand. VENEZUELA 20:15, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Greenland looked different when the vikings landed there? How so, because I have never head anything like that. I have been doing some interesting thinking, and maybe some different species would have evolved on Antarctica. I can't really say what species would have evolved or whether any extinct species would have continued because of an ice-free Antarctica, but lets have fun with it. --NuclearVacuum 20:34, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * O yes, Greenland actually was a lot less icy when the Viking arrived in the 10th century. There was grass, brush and birch trees. Than the Little Ice Age hit and the Viking colonies failed. Mitro 20:45, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw it on THC, they said that it also haved ants. VENEZUELA 20:51, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Now you're telling me Greenland has no ants? Now I am living in a box. But seriously, that is quite interesting. One thing I though about is that maybe the dodo could still exist in this timeline, since the lived not too far from Antarctica to begin with. Maybe a nice large landmass would be just what they needed. Not too sure, just something I thought about in five minutes. --NuclearVacuum 02:29, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Here is a list of some extint plant and animal life that once inhabited Antarctica. Maybe if there was a warmer continent, they might have present-time cousins in this ATL:
 * Glossopteris
 * Dicroidium
 * Lystrosaurus

We should also wonder whether the penguin might be larger and even have feathers like their ancient ancestors. Mitro 23:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is another link: Mitro 23:21, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * OMFG!!!!! GATORFERRET? Seriously, I love that. That would make a pretty interesting animal for this timeline. But one question. I made Antarctica become ice-free after the last ice age. Would have Antarctica been stable enough prior to this to allow species such as the four you proposed to survive? Wasn't Antarctica ice-covered before how it is in OTL? --NuclearVacuum 14:54, October 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm, your right. Maybe I am approaching this wrong.  We should probably see what animals would be brought from Tierra del Fuego and what animals later colonizers brought.  Mitro 18:10, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Short-lived Antarctic colonies
I presume that France and Spain (and possibly the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Portugal, and perhaps even Japan or China) would try some kind of colonization of Antarctica. Given the current geopolitics, all of these colonies would have failed or been conquered by the British/Russians/Norwegians/Germans early on, but we should still write about them, from a historical perspective. - Mister Sheen 18:03, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Update: I made a map with some ideas. The British and Russian areas are where I assume their claims would have begun (Eduarda and Bellinsgauzenia). The "Antarctic Great Lakes" in Bellinsgauzenia would allow the Russians to move inland quickly.
 * The Spanish Antarctic areas would have been colonized from South America, but would be ceded to Britain after a few years (probably during the 1820s-1840s).
 * The French areas would be close to, but would probably be abandoned early, due to a lack of supplies or something (I also have an idea for a French remnant community in ).
 * The Dutch areas seem the least likely, but since the Dutch were the first Empire to properly explore the area (the Southern Indian, Atlantic and Pacific Oceans), I thought they might have some kind of Antarctic claim. The Dutch would probably abandon their colony to the Russians between roughly the 1840s-1850s.
 * Finally, the concession system (like in Hong Kong and Macau, for example) might be used by the Danish and Portuguese to get a tiny foothold on the continent. I don't have any ideas for the Chinese or Japanese (East Asian history is one of my weaknesses), but it might be possible. - Mister Sheen 19:23, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Interesting idea. But one correction, Russia first landed on Antarctica around Alexander I Island, so I think the Russians would have also had a colony beginning there. So maybe Spain would have left the island alone, or it would have been shared by the two for a short time. Also, "Antarctic Great Lakes." I love that. --NuclearVacuum 14:56, October 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Both Britain and Russia landed on the Antarctic Peninsula first, but I gave it to spain for four main reasons:
 * The fact that it was first discovered doesn't mean it would be first colonized. Russian ships have a hell of a journey to get to the Peninsula, but if they went via the Pacific, they would have an easy route to the "Great Lakes" (I thought it sounded cool, too :P ) area.
 * Despite the Russian/British explorers arriving first, the Spanish have the most obvious base of operations for a colony - South America (though I'll have to double-check the dates of the South American Wars of Independence). Even though the Spanish were a weak Empire by that time, they were by no means finished.
 * Britain controlled Grahamland in TTL (even before the Russian Civil War). I don't see how a Russian colony, miles from any British areas, could somehow end up being controlled by Britain. Unless you were thinking of an Antarctic Front of the Crimean War, where Britain might take control of some Russian land.
 * Bellinsgauzenia was the 'epicenter' of Russian Antarctica, whereas Ognia and Byrdia were frontier regions. The colonists would likely start in modern-day Bellinsgauzenia, and gradually move Westward, towards Ognia and Byrdia.
 * I assumed Spain would only control the area for a short while, and cede it to Britain after a few years. Britain and Spain didn't fight any wars during that time period, but Spain might simply sell the area.
 * One other idea - French Antarctica is in the Virgin Country (where there were no ). The French were famous for getting on well with Natives (French and Indian War, anyone?), so perhaps their colony would fail without any helpful Indigenous peoples in the area, and they recieved insufficient supplies. - Mister Sheen 16:49, October 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, my mistake. Discard what I said. --NuclearVacuum 18:05, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

New Vestfold
Hi all. I hope nobody minds that I have been adding a bit to New Vestfold. I really like this timeline and as an Australian I would like to help out on New Vestfold. I can be creative and have already made a few pages, (e.g. ). I'm pretty creative and like suggestions and help from anyone and everyone, and would like to help you all make this timeline as good as possible. UnitedPacific 08:20, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I sure don't mind. Its good to know New Vestfold has a caretaker.  Mitro 14:31, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Trans Antarctica Highway Network
There is the possibility of a trans continental highway network in Antarctica, much like the Euroepan E road system, the Trans African Highway, or Asian Highway networks.

I could envision a network of modern superhighways all over the continent, linking up with the with a automobile ferry betwen Ushaia, and the northern tip of the Palmer Peninsula to connect with the Pan American Highway.

I think that such a network of highways would be viable in this TL.

Chilly8 22:18, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Its certainly a usefull idea but i'm not sure that the conditions allow it to be posible (The Snow)--Vegas adict 22:30, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

As a Canadian I can say that it's definitely plausible. In both Northern Canada and Alaska, well above the Arctic circle, there are full-fledged highways. Just got to do a lot more plowing. Lordganon 22:48, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Otto Dietrich
i just remembered where i got this name from, he was the Nazi Press Secutary. Do you guys think he could have survived longer if he escaped to New Swabia and have eventualy become the leader of the NSLP or should i change his name?--Vegas adict 22:30, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations Everyone!
For all of your hard work, Great White South has been voted the winner of the 2011 Stirling Award for the Best Timeline made in 2010. Your creativity and dedication have been recognized by the community and so I am proud to present this timeline with the award to the right. It does not belong to any one individual, but to all of you. However, special recognition goes to Nuclear Vacuum as its creator. As a group you may decide how to display the award.

South Africa as an ally of New Swabia
Does anyone noticed that since New Swabia could have covert support from the Apartheid regime of South Africa. Is anyone agreeing at my suggestion?

General tiu 06:55, March 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * That sounds quite interesting. Sorry for the long delay. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:49, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Oil... in my Antarctica?
Greetings my fellow Antarcticans. I am back and quite exited. Well actually I never left... you get the idea. Anyway, I have been doing a long to reading, searching, drawing, and sketching, and I am going to reveal that I have some big events coming this summer for the Great White South. I am working on a brand-spankin' new map and atlas for Antarctica, showing some new changes I have in mind. Nothing drastic, but more accurate with the map on the main page (rather than my original map that combined that particular map and the modern map of Antarctica). The only real change will be that Alexander Island (part of ) will no longer be an island, but part of the mainland. I am also working on a river map, and a climate map for Antarctica (so as to get a much better idea on the region).

Other things that will be taking shape will be my three Antarctic countries will be getting a makeover (so to speak). Don't want to get into too much detail, but it will be interesting. As for the title of this section, I just read that there are oil and gas fields in Antarctica. So this may have an interesting outcome for several regions (Bellinsgauzenia being right on the region). That's all I'm going too say for now. Long live Antarctica!! --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:49, June 9, 2011 (UTC)




 * I have [virtually] completed my new map. It shows the rivers, new coastline look, and also some border changes based on the new information. Here are some of the major changes that that I would like to note:
 * Maudland now has a border with the South Pole (or it would prior to the creation of the South Pole neutral site). When Great Britain occupied and annexed "Yugosiberia," Britain offered to give portions of the former Russian colony to Norway. The strait line is the 45th meridian east (the same border of OTL Maud Land).
 * New Swabia also has a strait line border now. After WWII, New Swabia relinquished all of its territory west of the 10 meridian west (the same border that "divided" NS in OTL). Maudland gained more coastline.
 * I am also rethinking the history of New Devon. I may change the name of the country to the "United Republic." This is because New Devon would be only one of the two entities in what I plan on calling the "United Republic of New Devon and 'Yugosiberia'." I don't think I am going to keep the name "Yugosiberia," since it seems grammatically incorrect for the language.
 * That's all I have so far. What do you all think? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:29, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Some ideas I want to bring up!
Hello everybody. I have two ideas that have been bugging me lately, and I wanted to bring them up for discussion.


 * Divided Australia?

Chalk this one up to my openness early on and not allowing the Russians to declare a monopoly in Antarctica, but would the advance to a greener Antarctica also cause more colonial interest in its neighbor? At the POD of TTL (1820 respectively), what we now know as Australia was only made up of three British colonies: New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land. Virtually everything west of the (modern day ) was unclaimed, and would not be claimed by Britain until 1829. My thought would be that if Britain would be so keen not to be left out of Antarctica, they may be preoccupied enough to allow another power to claim the unclaimed portions. As much as I would love to combine Russians and Kangaroos, that is not what I am suggesting. All I know is that the Netherlands had their eyes on Australia as much as the UK's. In fact, the western portion of the continent (even the entire continent) was called New Holland. So maybe the Dutch (especially after the failure of a Dutch colony on Antarctica) would take their chances and establish claim on the unclaimed part of Australia, creating the official Dutch colony of New Holland. So Australia could have two countries on it, Australia (as we know it today) and New Holland.


 * More German Colonies gain Independence?

The fact that the German Empire was able to gain colonies surprises me. But as was the case in New Swabia for TTL, Britain would gain mandates on virtually all of them after WWI. But if New Swabia would be keen enough to fight off British occupation and regain independence, wouldn't other German colonies do something similar. Though I can't say which ones would be likely to do so, I would say that Nambia would be on the list (since they still have a German population).


 * Conclusion

Those are the two ideas I have had. Please tell me what you think. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:41, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the main reason why the Dutch couldn't manage to colonize at all like that was troubles they had in Europe, which would remain in place here. Just can't see them being able to do such a thing in Australia before the Brits get involved, no matter how delayed they are. However, I could see them getting more of Borneo.

Nambia would have to fight off the South Africans, which is a whole different ballpark. And, unlike in New Swabia, the Germans aren't in the majority, not even close. They readily cooperated with the South Africans otl, and it would more than likely be the same atl.

Lordganon 07:36, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Earlier Maudland & New Swabia?

 * TL;DR: How about New Swabia was founded around 1886 and Maudland was founded around 1873?

As we have it, Maudland was first settled in 1889 and established as a colony in 1896; while New Swabia was first settled in 1899 and established as a colony in 1902.

The way I see it, there are two problems with that: firstly, their populations would probably far smaller than we've imagined during the World Wars; and secondly, other empires (particularly the British) would probably have dominated all of northern Antarctica by the time the Norwegians and Germans arrived.

I faced the same problem with Santiago, so I simply shifted its date of settlement from 1901 to 1859; and I suggest we set earlier dates of colonization for Maudland and New Swabia, too. It wouldn't really have much of an effect on the current Great White South canon, as there is little detail on the 19th century; but it would make the existence of Maudland and New Swabia more plausible.

For New Swabia, we can't go any earlier than 1884, due to German colonial policy; but any time in the 1880s would be good. It allows for a weaker early period followed by around 20 years of rapid development before World War I begins, which seems a plausible early history of the colony. Plus, more than 1 000 000 people left Germany between the 1880s and the 1900s, but less than 80 000 went to the German colonies, due to them not being "open" enough for settlement (they were mostly in Africa and the Pacific). New Swabia would surely attract a few hundred thousand of these emigrants.

As for Maudland, we could theoretically go as far back as we wanted; but in my opinion, some time in the 1870s would be a realistic estimate. It would allow for more developed coastal cities (which is the current plan for Maudland, I believe), and it would create the opportunity for the Norwegian polar explorers of OTL to be the frontiersmen who explore the Maudlandic interior between around 1880-1910 in TTL.

Thoughts? - Mister Sheen 15:57, August 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * With Maudland it could be quite interesting, I belive it could have two affects. The first would be to have Maudland as a truly federal state with a Swedish and Norwegian state and that it would be even more loosely connected with Norway than it is currently, prehaps resembling the Dominions under the Statute of Westminster 1931. For New Swabia its main affect would be the larger population.Vegas adict 16:45, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think Maudland might follow a similar pattern to Greenland in terms of independence (though it would happen earlier for Maudland due to World War II): becoming an integral part of Norway around 1945, with the same rights as the mainland counties; getting home rule in the 1960s; and becoming independent in the 1970s-80s (possibly keeping the Norwegian King as Head of State).

There would definitely be a Swedish population, due to the countries being united until 1905; but isn't the plan for the Norwegian colonists to be more numerous, and they vote to join Norway rather than Sweden in 1905?

I definitely think New Swabia needs an earlier date. There's just no way they would have enough men to out against the British for 2 years in World War I if the colony was only 12 years old. - Mister Sheen 17:20, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think if the colony was established earlier their would be more Swedish settlers there would still be more Norwegians but thier might have to be some kind of agreement. I definetly agree though that if Maudland was established earlier it would be independent now. I think it would still be part of Norway at its formation, becoming Autonomous sometime after the first world war, gaining self rule after the second and gaining independence with the end of the New Swabian war, Thoughts?Vegas adict 17:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

The Swedish Maudlanders would certainly be an important part of society; and I definitely think that either Swedish and Norwegian would both be official languages, or some kind of Maudlandic creole would develop. Then again, the two languages are so similar that there probably wouldn't be any need for a creole.

I doubt that Maudland would get autonomy before World War II; partly because Norway wouldn't want to lose their most important colony and partly because most people would still feel close to the motherland; but after World War II, people would become dissatisfied with simply being a colony. Maudland would likely become either a territory (with some autonomy) or a county (part of Norway) until the 1950s or 1960s, when it would get home rule. If it wasn't independent by 1982, the independence movement would probably gain a lot of support after the New Swabian War; and full independence would follow shortly after.

Going back to the original point: it's your article, so are you okay with changing Maudland's date of foundation? - Mister Sheen 20:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yes I am, In fact I'm going to go through the various articals and update to fit that date over the next day or so. I think the 60's would be a good date for getting home rule as they have Anna Lykke as Premier (I'm going to go for them being a teritory with autonomy after WW2 and as a colony with representation in parliament before then) and the fact that she was a powerful figure as it is at the moment and then independence under Mjoen in the aftermath of the New Swabian WarVegas adict 20:50, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Transyazalasha to Lower Yazalashar
Hello everybody. I don't know whether you all are going to be mad or exited about the news, but I am once again renaming "Transantarctica." First I renamed it Transyazalasha, not it will be called Lower Yazalashar. As mentioned before, "Yazalashar" means "the land where the dogs howl," and is the name which referres to OTL Transantarctic mountains and the coastal regions near it. I changed the name because I really hated using "Trans" in the name. Hope you all like the name. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:01, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Я люблю Антарктиду!!!


Good news everybody, I now have the climate map of Antarctica out. I don't know if this will make Antarctica look less inviting, but I like how it came out. I now like to think of Antarctica as "Anti-Australia" (you can probably guess why). Hope you all like it, I still have more ideas on the way. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:44, September 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just happened to stop by; I really like the way this timeline is going. But going through the timeline I kind of pictured coastal Antarctica as having a marine climate, like the OTL Pacific Northwest, rather than a continental climate, and then Patagonia could have a Mediterranean or humid continental climate. But it's your call. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 06:00, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Out of interest, any idea of the Antarctic ice cap's maximum extent (I'm assuming it grows in the winter)? - Mister Sheen 15:26, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

I think that we can safely assume that the white regions are the normal extent. Past that, yes, it would grow in small amounts in the winter, but mostly just thicker if anything - the effects would be barely noticeable, overall. 'm inclined to think, however, that even with some sort of global warming going on, that the glaciers here are probably going to increase in size on average, though slowly. Lordganon 21:00, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Rank Insignia
I was thinking about rank insignia.

Here was my idea about Bellingsgauzenia. It's like this. From Marcpasquin.

http://ib.frath.net/w/File:Snor-ranks.png

Perhaps you can ask Marcpasquin to modify the rank insignias.

General tiu 08:34, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Coat Of Arms
And I clean forgot...

Santiago COA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escudo_COA_Tierra_del_Fuego_Province_Argentina.svg
 * Oops, I forgot to add them. My bad. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:32, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ognia COA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Magallanes,_Chile.svg

Don't know about Byrdia, though. Though it resembles any US State Emblem.

Maudland's COA is like Norway's but with a black background.

General tiu 08:34, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Early indigenous leaders
Just letting you all know; if anyone's planning to write an article about an Antarctic indigenous person from around 1860-1950, there are plenty of potential portrait photographs here. - Mister Sheen 15:18, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

New Ideas
Here are several new ideas for the timeline that I think are interesting to look into.




 * LHD: When I originally worked out a nation of Antarctica years and years ago, I envisioned it as being completely (driving their cars on the left-side of the road). I always found it weird that there isn't too many LHD nations outside the Commonwealth Realm (excluding Japan). Maybe all the nations of Antarctica would agree to standardize their driving system. It makes some sense for several nations. British/Commonwealth Antarctica would have already been doing it, New Swabia could have moved towards it during British occupation (much like Namibia), Bellinsgauzenia would probably like the idea as a means to further themselves from the USSR (like how the US changed from LHD to RHD); while Byrdia, Maudland, Ognia, and Santiago would probably be willing to change. Maudland and Santiago may have already been LHD (possibly) since Argentina and Sweden were LHD (during the early 1900s).


 * Dominion of Westralia: I already brought up the possibility that Australia being divided. However, I only included the possibility of another colonial power (such as France or the Netherlands) establishing a colony, not dividing the English colonies. But anyway, here is a new proposal, and I think it will make Mumby quite interested in the idea. With Eduarda being prominent in the region, maybe the would become successful. The Dominion of Westralia would be formed, and they would be one of the founders of the . Just look at the proposed flag of Westralia and tell me that they wouldn't want to be a part of this Confederation.

--NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:06, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

The left-side driving makes sense.

Unlikely that it could be successful. The British government ultimately determined that they could not do it otl, no reason here for that to change here. Eduarda existing would really make no difference overall.

Lordganon 21:26, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Here are more ideas:


 * K'athar to Kathar: I have been wanting to do this for a while now. I find it weird and inappropriate that there is an apostrophe in the name. The only reason I named "I'kranar" an apostrophe was priamrily to make "K'athar" not the only one, but I continue to find it pointless. So, I would rather change all to simply "Kathar".




 * New Flags: I have more new flag ideas, primarily for and . I have uploaded my proposed flag for New Vestfold, while I haven't completed my idea for Balleny yet. The major change to New Vestold would be replacing OTL BAT coat of arms with a penguin (looking similar to the Kangaroo symbol of Australia). I will upload my Balleny flag when I am done with it.

I would also like to make mention that coming soon, I plan on uploading the vector version of the main Antarctica map, allowing everybody to have a peace of the map. I must warn you all, it is very big, and very messy. I will explain it in greater detail later. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:50, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

I like the flag. Good call on the naming too. Lordganon 02:36, September 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * LHD: Makes sense to me. Eduarda, the United Republic, New Swabia, New Vestfold, the former Ross Dependency and former Grahamland would all use LHD because of the Commonwealth; Santiago could easily follow Argentina into LHD; and the Ognian states would probably agree on a common policy, which would likely be LHD due to Ognia's only land border (in the early 20th Century) being with Grahamland. I believe Sweden drove on the left until the 1960s, so that could explain a Maudlandic LHD system. Bellinsgauzenia might use LHD due to its extensive borders with Commonwealth countries (and Yekaterinia would probably see RHD as a symbol of the French occupation, and would be glad to abandon it in the 1940s). The weak link is Byrdia (and by extension, possibly the South Pole). I really think it's unlikely for Byrdia to adopt LHD during American rule; and it would be almost impossible to make the switch after independence, because the RHD highway infrastructure would be so expensive and impractical to alter.
 * Westralia: I really like the idea, but I'm not sure how possible it is — unless Western Australia has a much higher population (which could happen, I guess), and there is more support for the autonomy movement.
 * K'athar: Yeah, the apostrophe seems unnecessary unless it's between two vowels.
 * Flags: I like the new flag design for New Vestfold, but the colors of the penguin emblem sort of make it look like a military roundel, in my opinion. Balleny's flag could use a new design, so that sounds good.
 * -Mister Sheen 22:43, September 9, 2011 (UTC)



To be honest, I got the idea for NV's flag from the Australian RAF. But I guess you are right. I altered the design, looking more like West Australia's (OTL) flag. Here is my "new" proposal for Balleny. Pretty much, it is the same design as I originally wanted for Balleny, but with an altered Crux design to resemble New Zealand's design (rather than Australia... more or less). I think it looks much, much better.

For the LHD, I can potentially see Byrdia remaining RHD, but I see the SPNZ definitely being LHD. For one reason, the majority of the region belonged to nations which would use LHD. From what I understand (or can guess), the SPNZ gained territory from Maudland, New Devon, and Byrdia. Byrdia only gave up a little bit of territory in comparison to ND, so you can do the math. As for Westralia, I feel it could be possible for a bigger population, but I continue to see it go either way. But if Newfoundland can remain outside Canada, than maybe we should look at Westralia in a different way. I read that the state decided to join the Commonwealth of Australia just moments before it was finalized. Maybe they would decide not to join. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:16, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Now I think of it, Maudland only has a connection to LHT Sweden until 1905, whereas it has a strong connection to RHT Norway until the 1970s. Then again, Maudland gains a lot of autonomy in the 1940s, and even more autonomy in the 1960s; so they might decide to switch to LHT (like their neighbors) during that period.
 * As for the South Pole, isn't the entire region is covered by a permanent icecap? If so, there would probably be no roads whatsoever in the region by the time of the SPNZ's formation in 1950; so the driving laws of the countries which created the SPNZ would have little relevance in the area even before it was created.
 * I'm definitely not opposing the idea of Westralia. I really like it, and if we can figure out the history of why it decided to separate from Australia, then I think we should input it. - Mister Sheen 09:18, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * You are definitely right about the SPNZ, I guess there would be a permanent ice cap there. But wouldn't Byrdia want to be equal with the other nations by becoming LHD? Like how Argentina changed because of the Pan-American highway. And for that matter, what of Tierra del Fuego, which would join LHD Ognia in the 1980s (just thought about that).


 * The only thing I can think of is that Westralia decides not to join the Commonwealth (like New Zealand), and would be one of the founders of the BIC. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:55, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I personally doubt the Byrdians, being a US colony, will be persuaded to drive on the left. What about the auto industry of Byrdia if the US had to ship Byrdia with RHD vehicles?


 * General tiu 17:14, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I certainly think that Byrdians would want to switch to LHT for the sake of international transport; but due to the already-existing infrastructure (especially ), it's almost impossible for any country with a half-decent highway system to change its traffic direction after around 1970.
 * Tierra del Fuego is a problem. If it stays RHT, then it would be out-of-sync with the rest of Ognia; but switching to LHT would be very difficult and would mess up the southern end of the Pan-American highway.
 * I really don't think Westralia is too much of a problem. As far as I can tell, it makes much more sense than Newfoundland, so if you want to include it, let's just include it. - Mister Sheen 22:58, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Newfoundland was its own dominion until it went bankrupt during the Depression from taking on too many loans in the 1920s. It actually makes sense. Even with a larger population, Westralia does not.

Byrdia would likely decline to switch.

Just have the highway end at the strait before TdF. Then you can do anything past that point.

Lordganon 07:55, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Antarctica being habitable (the POD of this timeline) would have much more impact on Western Australia than Newfoundland.
 * The current reason for Newfoundland's continued dominion status is that it was "one of the most loyal British colonies". Personally I can't see how Antarctica made that happen.
 * The reason for Western Australia's independence could hinge on the 1933 referendum, when 66% of voters supported withdrawing from Australia. In Newfoundland's confederation referendum (in 1948), the pro-independence campaign received less than 50% of votes; so in terms of popular support, it makes more sense for Western Australia to be independent than Newfoundland.
 * The reason Western Australia was unsuccessful was the blurriness of the Statute of Westminster and the lack of support from the Australian Federal Government. With a higher population, the Western Australian independence movement could put substantially more pressure on the Federal Government to listen to their demands. - Mister Sheen 10:45, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

It failing to get it had nothing to do with the Australian Government. Lordganon 10:49, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * The overall reason the movement failed was its perceived insignificance (by London and Canberra). A higher population means a bigger movement, and a bigger movement is a more significant movement. - Mister Sheen 13:17, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

No. It "failed" because Canberra ignored it, and London ruled that it was none of their business.

A larger population won't have any impact about people caring. If anything, it makes the problem smaller. More immigrants equals less people voting for it. Probably would not even get a majority here.

Newfoundland would actually have preferred some sort of Imperial option, but it was not an option otl. Here, with it being possible, they would have taken it.

Lordganon 23:56, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I really can't understand where you're coming from now. London debated the secession referendum for over a year before deciding it was a matter for the Australian government; and then the Australian government simply ignored it (as they had been doing all along) because they were reluctant to lose the resource-rich Western Australia. It had everything to do with the Australian Government.


 * And we aren't talking about mass immigration suddenly occurring in the years leading up to the referendum. The POD of this timeline is before the first settlement of Western Australia, so we could make the population higher from as early as the 1820s, if we wanted. The most likely scenario would be a small, steady growth throughout the 19th century, built on Antarctic trade; followed by a mass growth in the 1890s, sparked by the discovery of gold, like in OTL, except larger. The movement would still exist, and would still have roughly the same proportion of support as it had in OTL; the only difference would be its increased size, which would make it a much more serious issue, and one which the Australian government would find it much harder to ignore.


 * Newfoundland had the option of either becoming a Canadian state or remaining a Commonwealth dominion. Joining the "British Imperial Confederation" in TTL is pretty much the exact same thing as being a Commonwealth dominion, so I don't see why Newfoundlanders would vote any differently if they had the option of joining the BIC. - Mister Sheen 08:56, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

No. The options were "Responsible Government," which is what Canada had, joining Canada, and remaining under the "Commission of Government. Joining the Confederation is none of those options, but a cross between Responsible government and the commission. An option between the two, had it existed, would have placated those in favor of union and negated benefits of union with Canada, and would have been the eventual winner, hands-down.

You missed the point. The vote otl was so successful because of those who were there to vote - a lot of them were American, or at the very least not British, in descent or nationality. Those extras from prior to the 1890s would be Imperialists, by and large, and would swing the vote in the other direction. And, note the voting patterns: The areas that, by 1933, were mining areas still, all voted against the referendum. Such a state is not viable and would have to fight civil war.

Lordganon 09:41, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Antarctic Accents
Here is my idea of Antarctic accents.

Santiago's Spanish is an outgrowth of Argentine-Uruguayan Spanish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Spanish. However, it had developed its own characteristics due to geography. Ognian Spanish is the similar, though influenced by Chilean Spanish.

New Swabian German dialect is somewhat influenced by Swedish and Norwegian. Due to the occasional Afrikaner migration, Afrikaans words were introduced or at least Germanized. New Swabian dialects arose from Northern German dialects.

Norwegian in Maudland is like the. Because of German and Swedish influence, it seems that the Maudlanders, to a mainland Norwegian ear, speak German or Swedish rather than Norwegian. Maudlandic Norwegian uses the Nynorsk writing system almost exclusively.

Eduardan English is a variant of the English spoken in St. Helena and OTL Falklands. Ognian English is OTL Falkland Islands, but with differences as well.

Byrdian English is like a cross between West Coast US English and Alaskan English. Byrdians are mocked as 'article haters' because of their propensity to drop the article. Runglish also is spoken in Byrdia.

Bellingsgauzenian and UR Russian is influenced by Northern Russian dialects. The Russian from St. Petersburg may have a better time of understanding a Bellingsgauzenian than a Muscovite. In Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian media, someone from the UGB speak Russian like a Finn or Estonian do, that is, slow.

General tiu 08:41, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Amundsen, Scott, Shackleton, and other Antarctic explorers TTL
I just had to ask this question: what happened to the great Antarctic explorers TTL? Where would Amundsen, Scott, and Shackleton be? Would they be part of Antarctic society or just some names in a historian's dusty book? Godfrey Raphael 12:09, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Considering he's usually mentioned in the same breath as those three, Douglas Mawson should be included too.

I suppose that one or two of them may well be involved with exploring near the pole.

Amundsen, given the lack of ice, etc. in the south, would probably just continue exploring in the Arctic after discovering the passage. Mind, he's also probably respected and acknowledged here.

Mawson would be involved with New Vestfold, probably.

I have to figure that Scott would not be famous here. The man's claim to fame, quite honestly, is largely based on nothing other than dying and failing otl. There's no reason at all to perpetuate that here.

Shackleton, I can see exploring in the south still. Or anywhere else, really. Heck, without Antarctic expeditions, he'd have been around for all of WWI. Maybe some sort of General or something. Either way, he probably would get more of the recognition he deserves, and not die badly like otl.

Lordganon 21:15, October 20, 2011 (UTC)