Talk:Imperial Europe (Map Game)

BTW, if we don't get enough players, does anyone have a problem with sock-puppetting? We'd all get an equal ammount of pawns...Michael Douglas 00:31, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with that, if its kept reasonable, but let's try to get more players first. Flaradonia 00:33, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

May I make the starting map? I have particular knowledge of Europe's exact political situation at about 1400 and some experience in creating maps for map games.--Emperor of Trebizond 00:48, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys qrfbsca is in the house Qrfbsca 16:49, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I found this map of the eastern hemisphere in 1400. However, I don't think it will work for the main map. Oh, and also, it only has "Holy Roman Empire" in the territory of the HRE, which in fact was hundreds of nations. Fedelede 21:18, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Ok. If we get the main map up, we should be able to get started in a bit. 24.36.110.61 21:35, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I have a question: Will the map be only Europe or will it include the Middle East (known by Europeans) too? Fedelede 21:41, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

It will be both. I'm working on one that was inspired by your Renaissance map. --Emperor of Trebizond 21:44, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

You mean the European Renaissance Map Game? I only corrected some frontiers on that one. Fedelede 21:58, October 13, 2010 (UTC) Here is the map:



Grey represents minor or other nations. Sorry, but an unusual problem occurred with my paint program before I could label all of the nations. Here is a list of unlabelled nations:


 * Empire of Trebizond
 * Kingdom of Naples
 * Kingdom of Sicily
 * Arborea (in Sardinia)
 * Knights of St. John (in Rhodes)
 * Emirate of Karaman (in Southern Anatolia)
 * Kingdom of Cyprus
 * Byzantine Empire
 * Granada
 * Republic of Novogrod
 * Kalmar Union

If someone would be kind enough to help me by properly labeling them, I would be most grateful.

P.S.: If you signed up for a nation not on the map, my sincere apologies.--Emperor of Trebizond 23:18, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Iceland part of the KU? Also, the French kingdoms that I had put up were all quite independent of France proper. Also, it would be more realistic if the HRE is divided into its various member states, as I doubt they would be able to be united into a single cohesive nation, even by force. BoredMatt 00:04, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

I was planning to elaborate more on that like introducing Saxony and Holland and many of those independent German states, but I had to stop where I was because my paint program had a really unusual error of some sort.

It closed unexpectedly just after I saved the current map, and it won't let me open it again.--Emperor of Trebizond 00:11, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

I've added some more states, but all the credible maps that I could find online didn't have much on the southern and central HRE, which is conviently enough the one area of history which I don't know about. BoredMatt 00:47, October 14, 2010 (UTC)



May somebody please add the Jalayirids? My pixlr blocked. The Jalayirids are in Mesopotamia. Fedelede 12:38, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Lets get this thing started! We almost have enough people, if you want ask some more to join. The first turn begins on Oct 16th.Michael Douglas 20:50, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

BoredMatt, the quality of your image is not up to standards. Do you think you could make it better quality so we can actually read the labels of the German states?--Emperor of Trebizond 23:58, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

I have this new map, which has more nations on some parts and some corrected names and boundaries but doesn't have some of BoredMatt's French and German states. Fedelede 02:27, October 16, 2010 (UTC)



meone has commented on my post about Scotland invading Iceland/Orkney/Shetland/Faroes by saying that Scotland was in union with the KU at that time, as far as I know the only major alliance that Scotland had at that time was with France (the Auld Alliance) + in the new map Orkney and Shetland are part of Scotland,which is false Yours truly. Qrfbsca 07:19, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Qrfbsca, the Orkney and Shetland islands were Norwegian at the time until 1468 and 1469, respectively. Fedelede 12:31, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Burgundy's lands weren't connected. Their territories in France were separated from their lands in the Netherlands by the Duchy of Lorraine and France.

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1400/entity_2515.html

Wow... thats a find... just did a google image search. Has all sorts of HRE states and such too...Oerwinde 08:17, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I confused "Burgundian sphere of influence" with Burgundy proper. thanks for pointing that out, Oerwinde.

As for the hundreds upon hundreds of states that composed the Holy Roman Empire, I only put the most important ones. The rest recieve the name of "Small States". Fedelede 12:28, October 16, 2010 (UTC)



I finally solved the problem I was having with paint and labeled the unlabeled nations.--Emperor of Trebizond 14:12, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

So, have we started the game already? Fedelede 15:44, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

The Crimean Khanate didn't exist. It was called the Golden Horde. Fedelede 16:23, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * This map is in JPG format. That isn't that handy when it comes to changing borders. I suggest we make a PNG map. SjorskingmaWikistad 07:26, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Turns
How long does a turn take? The rules say one day. Does that mean that we go a year further every day, or only when everyone has had his or her turn? Because we are already started for two days, so we should go to the next year. SjorskingmaWikistad 10:52, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was a turn a day, otherwise the game might get a bit stagnant. Still, seing as it just started, I'd prefer that we let everyone take a turn for the first few turns. Later, nations are going to start to be eliminated by warfare, so we can expect the more dedicated players to stick with it. Michael Douglas 21:10, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

I checked the rules and it says 1 day per turn, so we should start the next turn, we're begining to look inactive.Michael Douglas 20:03, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Yea. I think everybody who is going to be contributing regularly to this has gone; all the other people that joined but haven't posted haven't been active at all for a while. BoredMatt 20:13, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm here. I won't be active tomorrow or Sunday, though. It is a shame. When can we discover America?CrimsonAssassin 13:39, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Negotiation Page
Enjoy!

May I play as a diffrent nation now that Navarre has been conqured?? I would like to to now become the White Sheep Turks instead of a defeated nation with no other choices. Duchland 23:47, October 19, 2010 (UTC)Duchland

The White Sheep have already been conquered too. What about if you try Castille? Fedelede 23:48, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Novogorod is open as well if you want it, might be a better choicce than Spain. BoredMatt 00:11, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

New Players
I think we should encourage new player to join. Right now, the only active nations (sorry if I mised you but I don't think I missed anyone) are Brittany, the KU, Scotland and the Crimean Empire. The KU and Scotland are allies, Brittany, Scotland and Aragon are allies, and Aragon has economic ties ot the KU and Crimea. The KU may be building new ties to Crimea. Not only this mean that everybody if friendly (Utopia! Its a Utopia!) but it is a small player base. There are plenty of new nations, so I think we should invite some new people to join. Do you think we should do this, and when do we stop accepting new players? If they drop out later, at least they stirred things up a tiny bit. Michael Douglas 02:11, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Venice
I want to discuss some of my ideas for Venice. I want to know something. Is anyone still using the various Italian states? I have the idea of Venice eventally furfilling the goal of uniting the Italian peninsula. I also planned on their colony of Nuova Venezia to eventually assume control over most of the territory of the OTL New Spain colony. Yank 06:21, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Would you be opposed to an alliance with Scotland Qrfbsca 16:24, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Venice probably needs some expansion back in Europe if it wants to expand majorly in the Americas. Might I suggest a dynastic union with Naples, and perhaps a war of conquest against Florence? This would go far towards creating a united italy. Michael Douglas 22:26, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

I might consider an alliance to Scotland. We should have an agreement to the division of OTL Mexico. Scotland gets the Yucatan (plus anthing south of it), I get the rest. I was planning to expand in Europe. I was planning to annex the territory on the east coast of the Balkan Peninsula that is uncontrolled by any of the major players. Eventually I wanted to seize the Byzantine Empire's territory in Greece. I have also been eying Bosnia and parts of Hungary. I could have a war with Florence after some perceived slight, but I cannot have a dynastic union with Naples. Let me remind you that by Italian definitions of the day, Venice was a Republic. The Doge was more of a President or Prime Minister than a King.

Yank 18:28, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

My nation is at your service, but could you aid with our colonisation of africa and India. Qrfbsca 11:56, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible to recruit you as an ally in my recent (and very much unintended) war with Aragon and the Ottomons? I already said I was going to annex Byzantine Greece, but no one listened to me. The fact that 1000Monkeys and Mr Douglas both ignored that announcement does not bode well for their intelligence.

Yank 21:38, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

I never saw the post, I didn't declare war on you, I requested an alliance with the Ottomans and they did. I do object to you seizing the Byzantine territory, but I wasn't going to do anything about it. They actually declared war while I was asleep, I posted the alliance proposal early because I wouldn't be able to post later.

Qrfbsca, you have an alliance with Aragon, I'm not going to pressure you into joining the war, but don't join Venice please. This war should never have started anyway, and if you join the KU joins, and everything will get all screwed up.

Also Yank why are you talking about our intelligence? I noticed the post but didn't do anything. I don't know about 1000monkeys, but not noticing something doesn't mean your stupid. You are way to quick to anger and way to easy to piss off. Its a game. The real issue is your expansion, and the fact that the Ottomans where friendly with the Byzantines back when they where active. It strikes me as odd that you are taking this so personally. Michael Douglas 23:38, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

And now he's declaring war on me because I won't give him a third of my territory. As they say, everything is bigger in Briton Texas, so he'd better watch out.

All I really wanted was your portion of New Mexico and a small portion of Texas. As I said before I gave you control of how much you wanted. I gave you the option of chosing the Pecos river as a border, which only included a small portion of Texas.

Yank 20:15, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I am very intent on keeping my colonies. There's plenty of land in Mexico left and there's plenty of land other than North America, by the way. Get out there and explore.

Fine. All I want then is for you to recognize Nuova Grecia.

Yank 20:30, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'll recognize Nuova Grecia, when Venice and Brittany agree.

Also Yank, we're technically at war again, because of my alliance with Brittany...but this dispute is really between them and you, so I won't do anything unless either of you starts posting that you took over everything for miles around. Try to end this peacefully, please, both of you? My economy is already in bad shape. Michael Douglas 22:14, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Aztec Empire
What I think happens is that the Empire collapses into chaos and infighting after visitors from Europe bring deadly diseases. These diseases may have been intentionally spread by the Venetians to help the spread of their colony, like how English colonists gave Smallpox-infected blankets to the local Natives.

Yank 21:09, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

The Aztecs are deep within south america. Do you mean Mayans, who are closser to Neuva Venice? If so, Scotland and Aragon wil probably take a piece of the pie. Scotland has a bit of territory on the Yucatan peninsula, and Aragon took Panama. Venice could take most of it, seing as they are more prepared, but the other countries would likely take a piece of the pie.Michael Douglas 22:29, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

I 'm guessing the history of the pre-Columbian Americas isn't your area of expertise? None of that statement is correct. It was the Incan civilization that was in South America (specifically Peru), not the Aztecs. There are three distinct regions of Mexico: Northern Mexico, Central Mexico and Southern Mexico. The Aztecs were mostly in Central Mexico, but they had a small enclave at the base of the Yucatan. Which is far from Scotland's territory so far. And the Colony's name is Nuova Venexia.

Yank 17:46, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Ya, my areas of expertise (well, relatively( is WWI and the 1400s, not the Pre-Columbian Americas (although that may change in the future, I'm kind of interested in creating a timeline in which the Maya priests didn't suppress technology, leading to their technological supperiority over the Spanish, and they become almost the Roman Empire of the Americas, but back to the point) is it really such a big deal that I got the names wrong, its not like I used the mistake in a post, just I mixed the two up in the discussion. I'm glad that I was corrected, and that new nations are being added. Michael Douglas 02:56, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Ottomans
Ok, first of all the user who is controling the ottomans declare the mamluks going to civil war, he can't do that, the mamluks are my country, second, why he invaded the Kingdom of Jerusalem, as the Mamluks renamed after transform into christianity if both are christians in the game? VENEZUELA 22:02, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

I have absolutely no idea what is going on here...I left this morning and suddenly I'm at war with Venice. I didn't think the Malmuks were active, forgot that they where christian, sorry for helping the Ottomans invading Jerusalem thenMichael Douglas 23:31, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

If you try to help foster a truce in the current war I'll se what I can do about getting your territories back.Michael Douglas 23:47, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

The War is OVER
Whoever made the post about the sides during the war, please note that the war is over. And besides, I had no idea that the Mamluks were Christian. If I can get everyone's word on this, I will stop the crusade immediately. BUT PLEASE REMEMBER: THE WAR IN VENICE IS OVER.

Thanks!

Awwwwwwwwww but it was about to get fun Qrfbsca 16:13, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry Qrfbsca, we can always subjugate Ethiopia, now that it's so hostile.

Not rearly, demanding to be recognized as soverign of Ethiopia (which is his country anyway) is not rearly that hostile Vegas adict 21:53, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Just kidding Vegas. I recognie Ethiopia anyway. Michael Douglas 15:34, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Map
Haha.....sorry CA, I deleted the map, not Yank. could you add Ku's control of Palawan, Sulu, and the mainland part of Malaysia to the map? And the sale of Virginia hasn't gon through yet. Wait one more hour. BoredMatt 20:22, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Let me remind everyone that Venice's colonies have expanded to roughly New Mexico and Arizona. While I am willing to let one half of New Mexico stay in Briton hands, that is all I am willing to take.

Yank 21:33, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that Brittany's colonies seem to be more to the north of Venice's. I'd think that Brittany probably would take northern NM and Az, and Venice the southern half. It is oversimplified, but both of you keeep arguing using the same exact point in support of both your cases, that is, plausibility (which is a very vague statement, to be honest). Geography does come into play here, and Brittany has a better advantage taking the northern part by following what would be Route 84 into NM and heading up and then around the southern Rockies through one of the innumerable E-W passes of the Great Basin. Due to them wanting to encapsulate the Venitians through driving straight to the Pacific, I'd say this is the most plausible option. BoredMatt 21:49, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'm doing on the map. It's a compromise. I hope he'll be okay with it.

I'm perfectly fine with it. I wish I could have gained San Fran Bay, but it was not to be.

Yank 15:45, November 26, 2010 (UTC)