Talk:Axis vs Allies: Reloaded (Map Game)

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict.


 * At the war: 5


 * Next to the war: 4


 * Close to the war: 3


 * Far from the war: 2


 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1


 * Defender’s advantage: 2


 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3


 * Island: 4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3


 * Side with greater population: 3


 * Side with greater industry: 3


 * "Big Cheese" Advantage (USA, Russia, UK, France for now): 3

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10


 * Religious: 7


 * Social/moral: 6


 * Political: 5


 * Economical: 3

Chance

 * Random.org

Stability

 * +1 point for every 100 stability point if under 1000
 * +1 for every 300 if over 1000.

Alliances

 * Every ally: 2

Stability Algorithm
(Sorry of this is rather a copy from Principia Moderni) Each nation will have stability points. Stability points will give you bonus points in war, extra stability, more expansion, and less chance of revolt.

Pluses to Stability
economic power =
 * urbanization (150 highly urbanized/industrial, 100 somewhat urbanized/commercial, 50 slightly urbanized/nodal, 0 rural society).
 * resources (50 precious metals, 100 widespread fertile soil, 50 some partly fertile soil, 50 important metals, e.g. iron, copper .etc)
 * technology (350 Nuclear power, 300 fossil fuels, 200 radio )

Stability = Regular stabilty points +
 * -20 every turn (-30 if stability lower than 500)


 * Territory (4: USA, China, Russia, Canada, India, Australia, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil)


 * Stability begins at the nation’s stability the last round


 * Change of government resets stability automatically to 750.

A country collapses when stability reaches below 300. The player must at that point create a new government or collapse completely into civil disarray.

Penalties to stability:

 * Each non-improvement turn= -20


 * Wars lasting more than 5 years= -20


 * Nearby unrest= -10
 * Minor invasion= -50 (border skirmish)
 * Major invasion= -100 (15% of territory lost or one major city captured)
 * -50 every inactive turn (not including Sundays)


 * Every day= -100


 * Stability less than 1000= -100
 * Transition of power: -50 every day of the transition
 * Colony larger than Guyana after 1980: -100 every day.
 * Nuke program every day: -250

Benefits to stability:

 * War won in less than 5 years= +50
 * Every alliance= +10
 * Stability greater than 1500 for the last 25 years= +150
 * Economic improvement= +25
 * Religious/moral revival= +30
 * Infrastructure= +25
 * War= +10
 * Military development/expansion= +20
 * New technological breakthrough: +250

Decolonization
One problem I noticed with the last game was that there was no decolonization or nationalist movements at all. In order to make it realistic, these should exist. LurkerLordB 00:28, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

You're right, I'll set it up. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:39, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Moderator
I assumed that anyone interested in the position would sign the thing, and if they were approved they would become a real mod, right? LurkerLordB 01:03, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:43, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

If we decide to lay down the banhammer, which I can honestly see in the future, what should the process be/who should it be carried out by? CrimsonAssassin 02:28, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I guess it could be by moderator vote. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 02:34, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Other Implausibilities That Must Be Eliminated
I am listing some implausibilities from the last Axis vs Allies Game that would hopefull be eliminated:
 * In AvAr, many colonial rebellions were suprassed in one move
 * Many nations united peacefully in one move
 * Baltika, one of the small nations in AvAr, managed to take over much of Africa is just a few turns
 * USSR once made English its official language instead of Russian
 * Italy did little exsept moan at Hindustan after anexing Somalia and did a few treatys with Yugoslavia befor stoming out in the 1960's. He rairly did anything and was a compleate and utter waste of map-space!


 * What was the BSMPG in Europe or the Mubaguri-Kahoolie Repubic in Australia suposed to be?


 * A space shuttel went up in 1958!


 * Mongolia developed an atomic bomb for the USSR in the 1950's


 * Baltica's user anoyed and nagged Egypt's user so much he retiered and gave Baltica his nation.


 * Cuba's antics in Mexico nd Venezuela's antics in Ruthina were silly and OTT.

Hopefully, from what you read here, we can hopefully eliminated problems caused by these. RandomWriterGuy 22:46, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * France lost Vietnam and Central Africa in the 1950's. The USSR gave Frech Saharah (roughly OTL Mali, Niger and Maruitania indipendence after anexation in the 1960's, Egypt rebeled agaist the UK in the 1980's and Katanga rebeled in variose parts of souther DRC only to see the risings crushed in 1 turn. Colonialisum continued unabashed.

Perhaps we should make it a rule that after 1980, no colonies larger than French Guyana. LurkerLordB 23:02, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and another problem was people starting a nuke program the turn after the first person got it. They should at least have a handicap or something. And remember, it is a large resource sap to develop nukes. Azecreth 02:55, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'll make it so that making nukes takes away HUGELY from your Stability points. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 03:01, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

What I really had wanted with Cuba was to establish a succesful communist government in Mexico and the USSR. I wanted to peacefully annex Mexico sometime in the '50s or '60s, but I was afraid Venezuela would try to claim Mexico. What I would like to point out is that the USA, in the first two games, went to war much more often than OTL. Participating in other people's wars is not only very costly and risky, but you'd see the general population becoming very unhappy very quickly. I'm not saying 'don't participate in WWII', I'm saying 'Don't participate in other nation's wars too much'. CrimsonAssassin 23:43, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and what was all that retconted stuff on the colapse of the USSR after a chemical war in the early 1950's that lead to the 'Old Russian Republic', 'Democratic Siberian Federation', 'Urals SSR' and 'Tomskestan' abodut? AKA Billy.82.11.82.70 03:05, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Map
The map is a little incorrect. British India, Sudan, Egypt, and Canada are to be part of the British Empire. RandomWriterGuy 22:49, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Canada and Austrialia and New Zealand were commonwealth, but they were technically independent. Sudan was part of British Empire, but Egypt was independent by this time actually. LurkerLordB 23:03, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but shouldn't Puerto Rico be part of the US, it was cedded to the US by Spain in 1898. Enclavehunter 23:45, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I know this is kind of stupid, but can I have orange for my nation's color? Or at least a darker purple? The color I have now is really alarming. CrimsonAssassin 18:48, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'll change it when I have the chance. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I believe that Congo or the democratic republic of congo or Zaire or whatever you want to call it was belgian, and lybia was italian. -Lx (leave me a message) 04:04, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Belgium Congo currently know as democratic republic of congo was Belgium territory from 1908 to 1960. Draycos

Could you show which part of China is controlled by Communists, which paart by China, and that East Turkestan or western China was controlled by an independant warlord? Lucky777 v2

Signing up
How do you sign up? if I can I would like to be Greece.Wegscuba 22:57, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Simply add Greece to the section "Europe", then sign your name after it. Welcome to the game! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:07, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Australasian Nations
There seems to be no option to play as Australiasian nations like Australia and new Zealand. Can we play as one of them? Or another nation (in existence at the time) that is not in the list? Callumthered 03:56, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Just add "New Zealand" to the Oceania section, and you're good to go! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Weren't New Zealand and Australia owned by Britain? LurkerLordB 22:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

They were part of the commonwealth, but were technically independent. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:21, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Not technically, but totally independent. Like today. Callumthered 00:07, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to sound nitpicky, but Papua New Guinea was part of Australia before and during WWII. South-East NG was Australian since Queensland colonised it before federation in the late 1800s, and North-East NG was a League of Nations mandate given to Australia upon the defeat of Germany, the previous colonial posessor. Callumthered 08:45, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

K, Fixed. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:48, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Some Announcements
First, check the Nation Page. Your stability, as well as alliances, are recorded there.

Everyone starts with zero alliances. Start making some when the game starts on Monday the 16th.

Thanks to everyone for joining.

PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:05, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Will you be putting me in the nations page, or should I add myself? Azecreth 20:19, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still not on the nation page. Do you want me to add myself? And maybe we should have a dedicated mod who does only stability or something. Azecreth 15:13, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Im not on the nations page either. Will I add myself?Whitesight 00:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Querie
How do you get the flags to appear like they do in the list of nations? Callumthered 00:29, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Lotta Nations
Well, it looks like so many people are joining the game. I believe this has become very popular so quickly! But, don't forget about my contributions! After all, I did sponser the game by putting it in the Map Games page. RandomWriterGuy 20:06, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Starting
When exactly is this Map Game set to start, anyway? Ownerzmcown 22:40, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Now, lol. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:00, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

South Africa
South Africa became had technicley indipendent in 1927. This formaly became law on the sineing of the 1931 Westmister Statute [].86.29.68.142 01:32, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Map
I will take care of all mistakes on the map, simply state them in the talk page. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:02, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Start
We start now! We start now because I thought if I wait until Monday, people might get impatient, and we already have a crapload of people. I never thought it would get so popular so quickly! Anyways, have fun! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:02, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Starting?
We starting now? RandomWriterGuy 22:42, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:00, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

14th rule???
how about instead of that rule abput how we cant have 13 rules how about just put that:being a moderator/gaining moderator status does not give you immunity from getting banned or getting called on for BS/implausibility?-Lx (leave me a message)

How about the 14th rule be '''You must sign your posts on the talk page'? ''CrimsonAssassin 23:19, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

woops, forgot to sign, -Lx (leave me a message) 23:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Crimson's suggestion 400%. (but Lx's is good too, if we want a 15th rule). LurkerLordB 01:22, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should make it a rule that you have to edit in source mode, not visual, as to not create the horrible code problem which is making it impossible to edit the turn on its own. LurkerLordB 23:03, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

code and formating problems...
ok ,theres something very much wrong with the code and formating. whenever I try to fix the problems, it just makes them worse, i try to fix the format, but everything just blows up...the paragraphing just becomes bd...is theri something wrong, or do we have to go to source or even fix the meta becasue there is somehting seriously worng with thecode in the 1933.5 year.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:04, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Everyone just needs to only edit in source mode from now one, try fixing it in source mode without going back to main mode. LurkerLordB 23:09, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

thats what i'm trying to do right now but somebody just edited...(sigh)...i'll just put a message in the announcements telling people not to edit and use and for edits instead of stars so everyone is using the same form, because that realy throws the formating off...a lot!-Lx 23:15, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

The stars system is simpler to use, the and seems to be causing the problem. LurkerLordB 23:24, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think that its the use of stars taht causes problem, becasue it casues things like:


 * I edit this
 * NO tis my way is better!

li and ul arent as simple but much cleaner my edit started after Lurker's-Lx (leave me a message) 23:36, January 10, 2012 (UTC) I personally find that using the html coding ones in opposition to asterisks IS far more complicated, and html coding can cause more devastating changes to the pages than asterisk problems, which can be solved with a quick edit in Visual mode. Fed (talk) 23:53, January 10, 2012 (UTC) Ok, I fixed this code, but then Australia edited it in visual, and everything went to hell. what part of "no editing 1933.5 in visual dont people understand? Anyways, i'm not fixing it again...it just ate 40minutes of the time that could have been put to other uses. sory, but it will have to stay.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:28, January 11, 2012 (UTC) 

I'm making it a rule that you have to edit in source mode, other edits that cause code will be undone on sight, and if you repeatedly insert the code you'll get banned. LurkerLordB 01:27, January 11, 2012 (UTC)*OK, from now on, edit in source, and edit in just the stars, as they are simpler and the code seems attached to the problem (as can be seen). Also, hopefully this will help the horrible spelling that is afflicting this game as well. LurkerLordB 01:39, January 11, 2012 (UTC) == Question ==

Is the Nation Page the diplomacy page? and do I need to add my nation to list and figure the my nation stability or will the moderator do it? Draycos No, a moderator will do it for you. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:46, January 11, 2012 (UTC)</li>

Just wondering...
On the penalties to stablity, it says -50 every day. Is this cumlutive, and if so than can we change this because little countries will get screwed as we keep going.24.155.57.99 22:47, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

It isn't cumulative, and it is -100 per day. And as for little nations being screwed, that's life. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 23:47, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I knew they were going to get skrewed one way or another, but if it was cumulative we all would be in constant anarchy. Thanks for the infoTacoCopper 00:22, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

As for little nations getting screwed why are more developed nations more stable? Mongolia doesn't even have agriculture at this point. 22:07 January 14, 2012 (UTC) </li> <p style="margin-left: 40px">Because the more developed a nation is, most of the time they have high economies, health care, income levels, etc and that gives their citizens somthing to be proud of. For instance, people are proud of America having the world's biggest economy. Plus,citizens often get better services in extremely devevolped than they do in under developed. For instance, it's easier to get life saving surgery in Europe than it is in South America. So you see how much better off it is in more developed countries, why would people want to change governments. Thats why they are more stable. TacoCopper 23:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC) <p style="margin-left: 40px">China is the worlds biggest economy not America. They are currently facing unrest in Inner Mongolia Tibet and East Turkestan usually centered in Urban areas. Development has nothing to do with those things wealth and a government that is not corrupt does. Without these development creates slums pollution and unemployment. Many undeveloped nations are extremely stable like Mongolia Vietnam and Bhutan. Revolutions are usualy spawned by learned people in developed areas. This is true of the Freanch and Russian revolutions, the revolutions in British, Dutch, and Portuguese africa, the Arab spring, and most other revolts. Uneducated rural societies are much more willing to obey a seemingly distant and unimportant leader. <p style="margin-left: 40px">Not to go all pro-American or turn this into an debate, but America is the largest economy, with China being the 2nd and growing. Enclavehunter 02:01, January 16, 2012 (UTC) </li> <p style="margin-left: 40px">I don't feel like debating this either, so let me just say that a un-dev country will have less stablity than a big dev country and you can name all the stable un-dev countries you want I can name twice as many unstable un-developed countries.TacoCopper 03:23, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin-left: 40px">My mistake, China will not be biggest for four years. The reason I brought this up is because when the Soviet Union developed Mongolia, going from nomadic herding to farming and ranching and building more cities, the people hated it, the economy suffered, the enviroment was damaged, and crops failed due to poor conditions. I don't want to lose stability by making the same mistakes. As I said earlier stabillity is about wealth not development. North Korea is uran and developed but it is still a teriible place to live. So are the slums of many poor developing nations.

Well, yes this is true. But the U.S was like this too when we were industrializing, but look at where we are at now. World's biggest economy, and most Western nations were like this too. Great Britain had Orphans in the streets who had to steal to survive, but now they have safety nets to help take care of them. Many countries have to go through extreme poverty and problems before things improve. Germany was destroyed by WWII, it was a devasted wasteland. But with the help of cash from the U.S they rebuilt, and now they have a large economy, and a Government that has safety nets. Think of the massive imports by the U.S from developing nations as Marshal Plans if that helps, and we are building them up. TacoCopper 01:59, January 17, 2012 (UTC)</li></li>

I agree but not for ever single country.</li>

 Stability I need people to help me with stability. So mods, I want you guys to help me, and we'll be updating stability every year, or 2 turns. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 02:49, January 12, 2012 (UTC) Union I was wondering if I could create a large Moslem caliphate/empire/etc. It whould incorperate Afghanistan, Persia, Turkey, the Trucial States, and possibly Egypt. Bobalugee1940 16:39, January 14, 2012 (UTC) Anti-Semitism I know I'm not a mod or anything, but if I recall correctly, i didn't think that the Nazi concentration camps were open yet, and the world didn't even know they existed until the end of WW2Wegscuba 17:44, January 14, 2012 (UTC) I know. I am not using this aurguement when I criticize the Afganies. My nation is Poland, so I naturally would try to help the Jews since I have a large number of them in my borders. I don't know why others are trying to do anything about the Jews, since their is still a lot of Anti-Smitism out their. TacoCopper 18:17, January 14, 2012 (UTC) ***</li> </li>

</li>

Discussion
</li> </li> </li> </li> </li>

Brazil-USSR
You guys realize there won't actually be a war, since neither of us can reach the other. It will just be a lot of postering and funding of rebels. Oh, and thanks, since this gives me a good reason to declare the Estado Novo next turn. Azecreth 18:40, January 16, 2012 (UTC) **** ****:Because most European and North American nations have large Jewish minorities (US, UK, Italy),or are under the reign of social democratic regimes (Trotsky in Norway and later Mexico). Fed (talk) 18:20, January 14, 2012 (UTC) ****:Thanks for the info. But some people are using the Nazi camps as reasons for intervening in this. TacoCopper 18:23, January 14, 2012 (UTC) ****::Oh. I personally am just doing that because Trotsky is rising to prominence in Mexico and is going for a more equalitarian regime and because there are Jew minorities in Mexico. The Nazi camp thing though is implausible. Fed (talk) 18:25, January 14, 2012 (UTC) ****::There was still discrimination against them from the Nazis in Germany, just not full-scale genocide. LurkerLordB 18:26, January 14, 2012 (UTC) ****::Spain is going to start concentration camps after the civil war is over. CrimsonAssassin 19:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC) ****::Even if you did, there's no way anyone would know about it, unless the UN looked into it (which doesn't exist at the moment), or invaded the country.Wegscuba 02:36, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Germany and Britain:
I, Germany, agreed to it, due to the fact that I said immeaditly, as in it would take an few years, but it would happen. Plus, I was going to kill Hilter off and his supporters, by an series of reforms. But, it if it's implauisble, I won't continue Enclavehunter 23:31, January 16, 2012 (UTC) ***Why is Britian suddenly attacking the Netherlands and supporting facism. Why is Germany not trying to expand or suport facism in Spain. They are still run by Hitler, who said repeatedly that Germany must invade the land to the East and that Communism was evil. ***Hitler just agreed to stop descriminating agianst Jews. This man is in power solely because of blaming everything on Jews and Communists and promising to regain land and millitary power. ***I would stop. If you do continue shouldn't you kill of Hitler then change things instead of having Hitler change then leave?
 * Britain attacking the Netherlands makes no sense.
 * Well, if we really wanted to we could build up a large amount of transports to bring troops to and from the battles that would happen.. But this is cool, its like a cold war between Fascists and Communists.TacoCopper 20:16, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * If another nation becomes communist like Venuzuala or Cuba there would be a war. This could also spill over into a war in Europe or Asia.
 * Why would there be a war? I don't think anyone would try to challenge the USSR by invading a newly formed Communists country.TacoCopper 01:59, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Nations not in Nation page
I was just wondering if Mongolia could be added to the Nations Page. I recently became its ally, and would like to be able to see its stability, if you have time. Callumthered 04:11, January 17, 2012 (UTC)