Talk:Vive la Revolution! (Map Game)

France
Just so to correct a small fact: France OTL is still a monarchy and will be until 1792; and in 1789 Louis is still in absolute power de jure. France will become the revolutionary Kingdom of the French only in October of 1789; anything earlier than that, Louis is still in control of an absolute monarchy. Fed (talk) 17:53, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

thanks fed, i didnt know that to be honest, and thats NOT sarcasm DeanSims 17:55, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Map
I'm sorry, but we need a map. Can a mapmaker please obtain one? Monster Pumpkin 18:40, February 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Already done. ChrisL123 19:15, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Colonies
Is there some way to play as the spanish coloneis that are about to emancipate from the mother country? I want to play as the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata (Argentina), may be a could play the colony as a kind of "vassal" of Spain until the indepencende, the local government was anyway very de facto autonomous by the time. Also, I'd like to be mapmaker too. --Galaguerra1 18:44, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

sure, you have my permission, where is the games real creator though, it would be nice if he would join us. Britain will support you if you declare independance. But start by wrting that Dissent against the crown is rising for a turn or two. DeanSims 19:19, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Be calm, I know my own country's history. I'm not thinking about getting independent until, at least, 1810 decade. Until then, I will being administrating the viceroyality. --Galaguerra1 19:25, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Mapmaker
Hi. I'm SS and I'm playing for the Ottoman Empire. Can I be a mapmaker? I have quite some experience in maps. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:46, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

sure you can. DeanSims 15:14, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alliances
I have realized a major flaw in the game. ALL THE PLAYING NATIONS ARE ALLIED TO OTHERS! THERE ARE NO OPPOSING ALLIANCES!

For example, the USA is allied with the UK and France. France is allied with Austria and Prussia. Austria is allied with Russia, Prussia, and the Ottoman Empire. What happens if a war erupts? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Alliances
Okay, in under a day, this has gone wild implausible. Why the hell with Britain & the US, bitter enemies, ally?! And why would Austria, Russia and Prussia, the principal counter-revolutionary forces and in Austria's case MARIE ANTOINETTE'S HOMELAND WHOSE BROTHER IS IN POWER be friendly with France? AND WHY THE HELL IS FRANCE INVADING ME WITHOUT EVEN GIVING A REASON AND GIVING ME TIME TO ARM UP LAST TURN?! This map game is just RWG trying to turn this into yet another of his Napoleon wanks.

To add to this:


 * Turkey and Austria are mortal enemies and will be until the XX Century.


 * Russia, Austria and Turkey are competing and warring permanently.

Fed (talk) 23:22, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Near to every nation France is diplomacing with was counter-revolutionary.

Prussia is not an ally with France, and is quite sore over the monarchy's overthrow. I'm not sure on the other parts. Monster Pumpkin 23:24, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Basically, the picture at right demonstrates the alliances now. And I agree with Fed. How exactly are the Brits and Americans allies? The US just won the revolution! And US-UK tension didn't calm down until the 20th Century, around the late 1890s! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:33, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I would like to piont out that Prussia's only ally right now is Britain, as they only signed a non-agression pact with Austria. Monster Pumpkin

Let's see the implausible in the graph:


 * US and Britain allied


 * France and Britain


 * Austria and Prussia


 * Austria and Russia


 * Austria and France


 * Ottomans and Russia


 * Ottomans and Austria

... Yeah. Nothing implausble at all, right? *sarcasm* Fed (talk) 23:38, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

And yes, the invasion of France was just downright implausible, especially since Fed didn't post in 1789.0. And technically, Prussia is a French ally, since it is allied with the UK and Austria, both of whom are allied to France.

And Selim III, in actual history, attempted to end the Russo Turkish War of 1787. And here, his goal is accomplished, since the Russians accepted here. And the Ottoman Empire was also at war with the Austrian at the same time; Selim III also tried to end this war, and did in success here. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:41, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Peace isn't equal to friendly enough terms for an alliance. Fed (talk) 23:42, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Just because you are allies with someone does not mean you are allies with their allies; Prussia is angry with France at the moment. Monster Pumpkin 23:43, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I (Austria) am willing to give up my alliance with Russia and the Ottomans and only keeping my alliance with France (as well as non-aggression pact with Prussia.) ChrisL123 00:03, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

America is willing to give up my alliance with everybody, and become isolationists. Enclavehunter 00:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

All alliances should be dropped, and the game should be restarted as per the proposal below. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Proposal
I propose that we start the game again at 1315 EST tomorrow. Everything will start again, including who plays for which nation. And we should ban some implausibilities. Or we could revise the entire game. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:43, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I say let the people keep their nations, but restart the game. Enclavehunter 23:44, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Enclavehunter. And RWG, could you PLEASE read a little about the early phases French Revolution? Fed (talk)

Some of the players in the game are wrongly using the power of their nation. I think Spain, Russia, the US, the Ottomans, and the Viceroyalty can keep their players. The others need to be re-assigned to different nations.

But if you disagree, that's fine. But RWG cannot retain France. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:49, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

What has Prussia done to lose their player? All they have done is invade a German Duchy and establish a colony. Monster Pumpkin 23:51, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think everybody keeps their nations, but allowed moderators to delete implausibility without warning. Enclavehunter 23:54, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

This oh so much. Fed (talk) 23:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, sorry Monster Pumpkin. I forgot Prussia was playing. Prussia is probably the only country that has not done anything implausible.

Nah it cool. But really, we do need a method of rooting out impluasibility. Monster Pumpkin 00:02, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

MY PROPOSAL: ALL IN FAVOR?
 * 1) Everything so far is erased.
 * 2) Everyone keeps their nations except the UK and France. France because it is being too imperialistic and the UK for implausibly siding with Napoleon.
 * 3) Restart the game in1800, to make everything different.
 * 4) Mods can immediately delete implausibility.
 * 5) All ongoing wars continue raging.
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:07, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter 00:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Only to conditions 1-3. I think that the Spanish-French war should not be happening at the moment, and that mods at least explain why it is impluasible. Monster Pumpkin 00:09, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * ChrisL123 00:15, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Fed (talk) 03:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * TacoCopper 03:09, February 20, 2012 (UTC)(all of them except 4, I agree with Monster Pumpkin, if you just deleted I probably would have thought someone did it by accident and just put it back up there, that and no one would know what they did)
 * I will stay as the UK, but the rest I agree to, I can tone down my pro-French feelings. DeanSims 15:17, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

By ongoing wars, I mean wars that are happening at the start of 1800 in OTL. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:12, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm in favor. If we're gonna start in 1800 then may be the UK will be not an "ally" but an enemy of the Viceroyality. I think may be Spain should react before some of the policies that the "revolurionaries" will implement on the Rio de la Plata. --Galaguerra1 01:41, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

We need one more vote for a majority. But does the new Japan guy count? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Lets restart the game, the mods and mapmakers all get one vote each. someone please make a poll.

First of all, sorry for causing the trouble. My proposal is that the wars are cancelled and that we can choose a new nation. How about that? RandomWriterGuy 19:38, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

THE FINAL PROPOSAL FOR VIVE LA REVOLUTION!
POINTS: FORBIDDEN: ALL IN FAVOR?
 * The Game shall start in 1800 Common Era and shall begin 00:00 UTC on February 21, 2012 (tomorrow).
 * Any wars that are happening OTL in 1800 shall continue unless a peace is reached.
 * The moderators will first tell someone their post is implausible. If the player does not fix their post, it can and will be erased.
 * Everyone can keep their nations.
 * Napoleon's France and the United Kingdom cannot be allies.
 * The British shall not be allies with the Viceroyalty.
 * Anything that was posted in 1789 cannot be reposted.
 * Invasions are variant. No country can invade another country unless their casus belli is approved by the mods.
 * The United States cannot be allies with the United Kingdom until 1870. (Close enough to the 20th Century)
 * Implausibility of course!
 * France cannot invade any nation until two years after Napoleon's rise to power!

ALL IN FAVOR? Agreed Against

What about: France has some sort of "Revolutionary limitations" until the factions are stabilised, and the absolute monarchies (Spain, Austria, Turkey, basically every nation in Europe but Britain) have "absolutist limitations" or "Enlightenment limitations" until the revolutionaries are at least partially satisfied, in which they cannot invade as many nations or do as many expansion and military turns? ~Fed

How about we can choose different nations if we like. (or switching them with other people). RandomWriterGuy 22:22, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

My POV On Things
Now I'm not saying that I should have overhwhelming say in running this map game, but as its intellectual creator, and a player, I believe I should have a say in what goes on here. I simply ask that the starting year be kept at 1789, or simply be pushed forward to 1792 to keep the original idea of the map game intact. This is of course nonbinding to anyone else who plays or mods this game, but I simply ask for you all to reconsider on my behalf. Ownerzmcown 22:10, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

At last we find the creator. By all means, 1792 seems like a good compromise between '89 and 1800. 1792 is the starting time in the proposal then.

And 1792 is a reasonable year. GW was elected to his second term, but Napoleon CANNOT come to power yet. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I am glad you have all seen reason, this compromise is hopefully the starting point of this site's next big map game, here's hoping. Ownerzmcown 22:47, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

When does the game re-start? Fed (talk) 21:42, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I started it, not sure if it's cool with any of the mods, but seeing as you had all agreed to with all this....I decided to go on- Ianian58 (China)

By the way, can the mods control France's actions together as some sort of "mod event"? Given the focus of this map game, we kinda need a France... Fed (talk) 02:57, February 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, seeing as France's player traded, we could have one of the other countries trade. I could do it, seeing as I'm a mod myself. We should have a kind of election on who wants to play France and then we vote for it. ChrisL123 03:02, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

So?
A simple question...When do we pass the turn? --Galaguerra1 16:52, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Since nobody has started the next turn, I assume the mods are a bit lazy, have forgotten, or don't have time, I will start the next turn, I ask any mod to delete it if it's not right. Ianian58 19:06, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Anglo-American Peace Treaty
The Treaty of London

 1.  The USA will cede OTL Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota to the United Kingdom. The USA will be compensated.

 2.  The United Kingdom will cede Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to the United States.

 3.  The United States must not expand past this treaty’s borders until 1845 unless it is in a military/expansion venture with Britain.

 4.  The United States must NOT ally with France, Russia, or any of those two nations’ satellite states.

 5.  The United States will not interfere in European affairs unless on a join Anglo-American mission in Europe or with the United Kingdom’s allies.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 6.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  The United Kingdom will allow Native Americans in the USA’s territory to be moved into British land as to increase American settlement in America’s lands and possessions.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 7.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  All expansion before 1845 must be approved by the United Kingdom.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 8.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  The United Kingdom will not expand into any American territory unless sold honestly and legaly by the USA to the United Kingdom  UNLESS  the United States declares war on the United Kingdom, in which the United Kingdom will be forced to act.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"> Needed Signatures: Britain: DeanSims 16:19, February 25, 2012 (UTC) America:Enclavehunter 16:19, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

South Africa
I want to ask, because I'm pretty confused here. How is it possible for the UK to expand further into South Africa if they never had a presense in that particular area, and the area around South Africa, particularly the Cape of Good Hope, belongs to the Dutch? Razgriz 2K9 16:48, February 25, 2012 (UTC)