Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

Archives
Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7

Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flp back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
Maps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

Bavaria won close to 20% of palinate in a war.Andr3w777 (talk) 17:24, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You never defined how many years the war would last.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:09, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Now, there are still some mistakes on the map.Brandenburg's gain on their war with Bonoman are not there, because i didnt know how many pixels they have. --Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:09, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Burgundy-Dutch War
Burgundy
 * Location: 4


 * Tactical: 6


 * Strength: Burgundy(L)+France(M)+Calais(MV) ---0


 * Military: 18


 * Economy: 0


 * Infrastructure: 0


 * Motive: 3


 * Chance: 3
 * Edit count: 2095
 * UTC: 23:25
 * 2095/60*pi= 109.6383333333333
 * Nation Age: +5


 * Population: 7


 * Participation: 10


 * Recent wars: 0


 * Total: 56

Netherlands

 * Location: 5


 * Tactical Advantage: 2


 * Strength: Holland(L)+Flanders(L), Germany (M) ---11/9 ~=~ 1


 * Military Development: 5/2 = 3


 * Economy: 5/2 = 3


 * Infrastructure: 5/2 = =3


 * Expansion: 0


 * Motive: 10


 * Chance: 8


 * Nation Age: -5


 * Population: 7


 * Participation: 10


 * Recent Wars: 0


 * Total: 47*1.5 = 70.5 = 71

Result
((72(129)*2)-1= 12%

The war will last 5 years so the Netherlands may take 10.8% of Burgundy.

Discussion
i know that with this i can take between 25 and 30 % but not sure how much would war last, and by the way i want the war to last enough to take the 33%, so could some mod  (AP - COLLIE OR SCAN) to please finish this algorythm for me, For the Record ap THIS IS NOT A RECONQUEST ATTEMPT, all i want is some more land and my colonies back

That's exactly what a reconquest war is.AP (talk) 02:17, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

i mean not a reconquest of the netherlands just of the colonies who are a mix of burgundian dutch and some italians i don't really care that much for the netherlands Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:22, February 3, 2013 (UTC) could you fix the algorythm please

The Netherlands were formed in 1593 after they defeated you in a popular revolt so they get a multiplier. I counted 10 turns of military development but one of them was during the war so it didnt count.AP (talk) 02:33, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Also, the Netherlands has two autonomous regions since two countries formed a federation-like country: Flanders and Holland.AP (talk) 02:36, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

i thought collie or scan said federations were going to be treated as one nation, to avoid a new caliphate from occuring Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:47, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * It was Saamwiil, i think, but this proposal never came into action, and, i still don't understand how this proposal would work.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:00, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

It's federation-like. They are basically a union. No matter, they have won the rest of the northern coast and some colonies.AP (talk) 03:01, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

I am joining this war.                 "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  07:05, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, France is bringing all the firepower to this war, so don't forget our help. Stewdio333 (talk) 07:45, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * You already are represented.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 13:32, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Punishment of Aragon (1602)
Germany Total: 57
 * L ocation: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 5 (larger colonial empire), 1 (attacker)
 * Strength: Brandenburg (L), Austria (S), Scandinavia (S), UKBT (M), Wettin Lands (Saxony M, other states 3*S = 6, +9) = 20/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 28
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edit Count: 9412
 * UTC Time: 21:22
 * 2*1*2*2 = 6
 * 9943/6 x pi = 5206.142...
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Aragon
Total: 16
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: none
 * Strength: Aragon (L +4) = 0
 * Military Development: 0 (new nation)
 * Economy: 0 (new nation)
 * Infrastructure: 0 (new nation)
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
((57/(57+16))*2) - 1 = 56.16%

44.73 * (1-(1/(5*2))) = 42.12%

Aragon is punished. We restore the Brandenburgish ruler as the overall ruler of Aragon, although they have their own legislation and stuff. (Vassal, basically.)

Discussion
I tried to be generous to Aragon, but I think I did something wrong.

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:35, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

what 17 * 1.5 = 25.5 = 26 means?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:47, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

And why would a kingdom in northern Aragon be called Spain? Fed (talk) 21:57, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Now, if in this, he takes the Valley of the Aragon, the country won't be even entitled to call itself as such anymore.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:13, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

The Aragonese overthrew a tyrant, and Scraw couldn't do anything with Aragon to begin with. Let them go. Yank 22:16, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, back when I still had control over Aragon and Navarre, I made them into one, Aragon. 1490s-ish.

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:19, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Bavaria did state that aid would be sent yet we are not on the algorithm?Andr3w777 (talk) 19:28, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Added, thank you. :)

<span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:36, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

DeanSims Again
DeanSims is abusing the civil war to be able to control more than one nation. Yank 01:29, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yank chill, its my own civil war and i very recently controlled the Ottomans and Crimeans, the Ottomans/Romans as main nation and Crimea as a vassal, I can therfor control both the Ottomans and Romans. And why do you constantly keep calling just me out? (DeanSims: Talk) 20:27, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

As long as you do something to stop the Muslim rebels then you get it back. But Crimea has rebelled away, it is no longer your vassal. When your nation changes religion so suddenly, the other religions are going to rebel away because they want to be in charge. Beat them in a war and its yours again. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:42, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

OK, i will destroy the rebels and reunite the Kingdom of Rome! (DeanSims: Talk) 20:45, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Arabian federation
Total: 35
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: (colonial empire & attacks adv.) +6
 * Strength: Arabian federation (L), Comchellak (MV), Rajaputana (M): 9/7 = +1
 * Military Development: 4/3 = +1
 * Economy: 20/3 = +7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +3
 * Edit Count: 6373
 * UTC Time: 14:41
 * 1*4*4*1 = 16
 * 6373/16*pi= 1251.33562383
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Persia
Total: 32
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: (high ground) +2
 * Strength: Persia (L), Azerbaijan (M): 7/9 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/4 = 0
 * Economy: 3/20 = 0
 * Infrastructure: +3
 * Expansion: -2
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance: +5
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: (8+2) +10
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5

Result

 * Arabian victory
 * ((35/(32+35))*2)-1 = 1%
 * 1% of Persia's 27,142 pixels is 271 pixels.
 * Arabian federation wins 271 pixels from Persia.

Discussion
Note Arabian federation only wants parts of the Persian coastal regions. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:50, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Do any of my allies want to help me? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:32, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

At the moment you get only a measely single percent. In other words this entire affair was completely pointless.Yank 23:09, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not really, I only wanted a bit more land. Why do you keep getting involved? Has it anything to do about you? Your predispositions are really starting to worry me. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:42, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

All the Rajput's help gets you is an extra four percent. This war was started because your sultan got pissed off because his pet traitors were exectuted by the Persians.

1600 map
I take it Collie's is the actual map & Scan's is going to be updated & become the named map right? Anyway where is that that named map I promised (well its numbered), so here you can now go and make the named map for 1600. 52-54 - Those 3 states are now part of the Sultanate of Sindhustan, this map hasn't been updated to show this.
 * 1) BohemiaPrincipia_Moderni_II_Map_1599_numbered.png
 * 2) Poland (Christian kingdom)
 * 3) Prussia
 * 4) Lithuania
 * 5) Minsk
 * 6) Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia
 * 7) Slovakia
 * 8) Kingdom of Hungary
 * 9) Duchy of Árpád (vassal of Romania)
 * 10) Kingdom of Romania
 * 11) Bulgaria (former Principality of Silistra)
 * 12) Kingdom of Ukraine? (Former grand duchy of Kiev)
 * 13) Smolensk
 * 14) Grand duchy of Chernigov
 * 15) Zaporizhia (Cossack nation)
 * 16) Kingdom of Donbass
 * 17) The Cossack Principality of the Kuban.
 * 18) Adyghe confederation
 * 19) Georgia
 * 20) Armenia
 * 21) Chechnya
 * 22) Azberjian
 * 23) 23 is now part of Nogai khanate
 * 24) Nogay (vassal of the Nogai khanate)
 * 25) Nogai Khanate
 * 26) I seem to have missed this number out of the map
 * 27) Republic of Nenetsia
 * 28) Komi Republic
 * 29) Kazan khanate
 * 30) Republic of Obdorsk
 * 31) Republic of Syktyvkar
 * 32) Khanate of Sibir
 * 33) Samara
 * 34) Tartar Republic
 * 35) Bashkiria
 * 36) Khanate of Cosapact
 * 37) Kazakh Khanate
 * 38) Akmola
 * 39) Zunghar Khanate
 * 40) Khanate of Mangystau
 * 41) Xwarezm
 * 42) Khanate of Almaty
 * 43) Dimurat
 * 44) Badakhshan
 * 45) Uyghur Khagnate
 * 46) Qoyunlu Empire
 * 47) Persian Empire
 * 48) Kingdom of Baghdad
 * 49) Kuwait
 * 50) Khafji Sheikdom
 * 51) The Arabian Caliphate (rump state successor to the Mahdiate/Hashemete caliphate)
 * 55 - Punjab

Anyway there you go Scan, now make the named map. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:43, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Von. Now to harrass people to update the territories page... Scandinator (talk) 00:16, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

I can name a series of problems with that map's names. fist off, let me thank you for trying. Second, I killed kazan in a war, third, none of my wars make sense if this is true(aka, all algorithms are wrong, and I should have one more easily), fourth, odonsk was founded in 1595, almost 20 years after the supposed balkanization of russia, fifth, syktyvar was founded in 1723 by Peter the Great, and there were settlements in that region near 1680, sixth, the modern capital of nenetisia was founded around 1930. in that region, the only people that would realy live in the 16th century, except perhaps 5000-6000 Novgorodian soldiers around a military outpost, would be the nomadic samoyeds, who would likely have the same relative independance as the first nations did in the americas at this time and around the mid-1600s despite foreign claim on the territory. The Nenets only number in the 40 000 today, after acute population booms, so I woyld place tehm at 5000 people. I do, however, doubt that there would be cossacks with permanant settlemetn around kuban prior to 1696(modern kuban cossacks founded). seventh, Samara was a military outpost built in 1586 by russia for the sole purpose of protecting against nomads, eighth, I doubt that the tatars would be seperate from Kazan, since it was the last true tatar city to exist, and the largest tatar city to exist today, and would have likely been the center of tatar culture if this were to happen, ninth, I believe that the city of kazan would be cituated in the confines of state "syktyvar" or "samara", and the "kazan khanate" would not even have kazan. tenth, the city of syktyvar is the capital of the komi republic, and would be in its confines, according to the map, the problems with that are already stated...sould I continue-Lx (leave me a message) 03:15, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa
Total: 41
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: (attacks adv.) +1
 * Strength: Orissa (L), Vassal 1 (MV), Vassal 2 (MV), Rajputana (M): 11/4= +3
 * Military Development: (7x2) 14/3 = +5
 * Economic Development: (3x2) 6/3 = +2
 * Infrastructure Development: (3x2) 6/3 = +2
 * Motive: (Social Kinsman) +7
 * Chance: +6
 * Edits: 9765
 * Time: 21:50 = 10
 * (9765/10)*pi = 3067.76522623
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10

Bengal
Total: 38
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Bengal (L): 4 = 0
 * Military Development: (5) 3/14 = 0
 * Economic Development: (5) 3/6 = +0
 * Infrasturcture Development: +0
 * Motive: (Survival) +10
 * Chance: +5
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: (6+2) +8
 * Participation: +10

Result
Small Orissan victory. Mostly status quo, yet gain of 100km (2px ;)

Discussion
Its a new algorithim so some aspects might be wrong. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:05, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah a fair bit of stuff was wrong, I fixed it now. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:44, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, the idustry is meant to be halfed I'm pretty sure. :/  Imp (Say Hi?!) 08:55, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

It says so in the rules... Imp (Say Hi?!) 08:58, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

idustry? If you mean economic development & military development, remember that you player nations get 2 points for each year of development and NPCs only get 1 point for development each year. Hence 1 is half of 2. The NPC built up its development for 5 years for each development type, meaning it got 10 points for military, economic & infrastructure development each. This 10 is then halved to give you 5. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:35, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Oh come on. Bengal has become a backwater, how can they be waging a successful war against Orissa? I spent ages and ages on all three. Could I change it, cause I have been spending turns on economic and industrial growth? Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:44, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it has become a backwater, no mod events have established it as one. But seeing how it used to have a large empire then it lost it all, it still has that capacity for empire so is still strong. Besides those are the rules and we can't just change them and only follow them where it does us a favour.

I'll allow you to compromise and the war can be a draw and things remain the same. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 12:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Ok *(sighs at a useless war)*. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:14, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Australian Colonization
This is implausible, at least until 1700 or so. It wasn't worth it to the Europeans or anyone because of the desert. AP (talk) 04:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Save the coastal regions.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:05, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but if you go into something that it's ten miles normal and then from then on desert you're not going to colonise it. Fed (talk) 17:09, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly colonizing Australia at the time now is not worth it for any European or Asian country. One, it is too far away at maintainance costs to protect and expand the colony would be a lot higher than in the Americas and Africa. Two, there are very few resources and growing areas. Colonies will need to import food if they start on the West, North or South Coast. Only the South East can host a self sustaining colony and that is after it expands inland far enough. In the meantime they would still need food imports. Scandinator (talk) 10:49, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Scan put it very neatly. Australian colonies can not become self-sustaining until after decades of life support from the mother country. Australian colonisation does not work the same way as American colonisation. In America, you just drop off the colonists and they can build a self-sustaining colony in minutes. And if they do need assistance, it takes like a month max to send a ship from Europe to America. It took a year to go from Europe to Australia in 1788. It would have taken a ridiculous amount of time to get there in 1610. And again, I reiterate the main point, Why Bother when there are sooo many more profitable and closer places to colonise? I am Saxony, so I don't have vested interests in colonies, I merely put this out there because it is completely implausible. The Dutch didn't colonise otl, and they were the colonial masters of the time. Why would anyone else do it TTL? Callumthered (talk) 11:03, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for putting my points more clearly. As an extra example. The Dutch were VERY active in our area but they decided to colonize Indonesia instead as the Indonesian archipelago is so much more profitable and much easier to control trade with than Australia. Also Australia's most valuable commodities have no uses in the 17th century expect for coal and iron. But why bother with a year long journey to transport it back when there are sources in Cornwall, Alsace-Lorraine, the Ruhr and Northern Italy.Scandinator (talk) 12:54, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Notice
It is quite likely that I will be quite busy/inactive over the next few weeks (this applies to the past week as well). 77topaz (talk) 04:58, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia

 * Location: 2


 * Tactical: 6


 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV)+Portugal(S)+Leon(S)+Castille(S)+New Georgia(MV),14/4--- 3.55= 4


 * Military: 30/3 = 10


 * Economy: 0


 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion:0
 * Motive: 3


 * Chance: 7
 * Edit count: 2112
 * UTC: (05:09)
 * 2112/45*pi= 147.3706666666667
 * Nation Age: 5


 * Population: 7+10


 * Participation: 10


 * Recent wars: 0

Total: 64

Mombasa

 * Location: 5


 * Tactical: 0


 * Strength: Mombasa(L)--0


 * Military: 3 = 0


 * Economy: 3


 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0


 * Nation Age: -5


 * Population: 6


 * Participation: 10


 * Recent wars: -1

Total: 30

Result
(64(94)*2)-1 = 36.2%

(36.2%)*(1-1/(10)) = 32.5%

Discussion
Can New Georgia realistically provide military aid in this war?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:15, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

You can edit your own algorithms, not anybody else's. You're not a mod, so quit acting like one. And yes, they can since they are a legitimate nation that is under protectorate status. Besides, you used Vinland on several algorithms.108.214.113.122 03:49, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

A: Anyone can edit an algorithm.

B: I didn't edit it.

C: I only used Vinland in wars in North America.

D: New Georgia is in Canada. This war is in Africa.

Do you see where I'm getting at, anon?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:54, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Most people forget the dividing the winner's score by the loser's score rule. I'll get at the rest of them later, but for now Scandinavian Africa begins in Kenya!AP (talk) 04:00, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think they (New Georgia) can help militarly.supplies, maybe.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:19, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I read the event closer and it states that Mombasa annexed its neigboring city states and their hinterland(Lamu and Malindi).AP (talk) 02:34, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

You have to the time thing:

p * (1-(1/(x*2)))

Where p is 34% and x is how long you fight.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:39, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

And in order to topple their government, you have to make this war last seven years.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:27, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

German War into Africa (1609)
Germany Total: 43
 * L ocation: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 5 (larger colonial empire), 1 (attacker)
 * Strength: Brandenburg (L), Austria (S), Aragon (MV), Navarre (MV) = 10/4 = 2.5 = 3
 * Military Development: 28/3-- 9
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edit Count: 10036
 * UTC Time: 03:19
 * 1*3*1*9 = 27
 * 10036/27 x pi = 1167.741...
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 16 (6 digits, +10 because the population is 5x that of Bonoman's)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -5

Bonoman
Total: 38
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: none
 * Strength: Bonoman (L +4) = 0
 * Military Development: 3--0
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
((51/(51+38))*2)-1 = 21.4%

Discussion
Might as well get a leg up over the other powers.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:29, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

The Bonoman have been around for quite a while, they are not a new nation...108.214.113.122 03:47, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

It's -5 for ancient nation.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:52, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyway, the Bonoman have been around since i stopped expanding Cabo verde.which would mean somewhere around the late 1400's and the early 1500.which would make their nation age be 0 or +5.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:52, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was in 1516.0.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:54, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Your recent war score alo is five, according to the algoryhtm up there that said that the Aragonese war would last 5 years.but i might be wrong.And when your nation is about 5 to 19 years old since your last government change, you get -5 on nation age.And your last government change was in 1590.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:59, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * The empire came about in the 11th century. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">            [[Image:Regen Flag.png|25px|link=User:Scrawland Scribblescratch]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."


 * Even though the Bonomans existed before, until the 1516 event, the area was divided into so much kingdoms that it was in dark grey.the unification counts as a government change, i think.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:05, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Since when do we divide the military scores?

Also, is it possible for me to switch the attacked nation?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:06, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently the rules dictate it. I don't think you can switch the nation attacked, just to be fair to the people that have wanted to switch the nation when they were losing. Who were you planning on switching it to anyway?AP (talk) 04:10, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Kongo, actually. Decided that it would be more valuable.

Scraw 22:43, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

And then their nation age would be +5.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 11:21, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, forget it then. ;)

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:43, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Bavaria
Total: 47 (*1.5 for Luxembourg = 70.5 = 71)
 * Location:4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1 (attacker), 2 (high ground)
 * Strength: Bavaria (L), Nassau (MV), Luxembourg (L), Austria (MV), Navarre (S)= 14/4 = 3.5 = 4
 * Military Development: 6/3 = 2
 * Economy: 2 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:7
 * Edit Count: 2,204
 * UTC Time: 04:08
 * 2204/32 x pi = 216.377194
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 17 (7 digits, +10 because the population is much larger than Palatinate)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Palatinate
Total: 48
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:Palatinate (L +4) = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3/2 = 1.5 = 2
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
(71/(71+48))*2 - 1 = .1932 * 10 = 19.32%

Discussion
Can someone come along to correct what is wrong and fill out the parts i don't know? It would be much appreciated.

~ Andrew

Luxembourg joins this war, and Austria provides military aid now. Supplies from Navarre.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:47, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Portugal
Total: 49
 * Location:1
 * Tactical Advantage: 1 (attacker), 5 (larger colonial empire)
 * Strength: Portugal(L), Castille (MV), León (MV) +Scandinavia(S)+Saami(MV)= 12/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 16/3 = ~5
 * Economy: 14/3 = ~5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:7
 * Edit Count: 3843
 * UTC Time: 21:00
 * 3843/2 x pi = 6036,5702838728
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7+2 = 9
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Gujarat
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength:Gujarat (L +4) = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
49/84 - 0,5 x 2 = 0,16666666666666666666666666666667

Portugal can get 16,6% of Gujarat.

Depending if the war lasts 4 or 5 years, Portugal can get 14,52 or 14,94% of Gujarat.Since Gujarat has 3756 pixels, Portugal thus can get either 545 or 561 pixels.

Discussion
So, since it would be near impossible to find population statistics for Gujarat on the 17th century, i started to research Indian historical demographics, and comparing Gujarat with the whole of India, i came to the conclusion that Gujarat's population in 1610 would be roughly 4 million people.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:56, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

A religious movement
Could I have a new religious movement begin in Orissa? It will be basically based around a simplified version of hinduism. So out of so many gods, we will only have the main three and the god of luck (the elephant god), along with the god of money and good fortune (Laxmi, the elephant god's wife and the reason for Diwali). Would that be fine as we already have a Kreppanlits (or however you say it) movement in Europe? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:42, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Anybody at all? Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:23, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Most of the other mods that might tell you something will be active in some hours.i don't have a an opinion on this, so i'll leave this to somebody else to decide.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:30, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. :) Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:20, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

There would be religious strife, riots, holy wars etc as the religion develops. are you sure you wish to take this path? If yes, feel free to create it. Scandinator (talk) 08:18, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Well, yeah. It'll help me abolish serfdom and destroy the caste system. And people might say a democracy solves the castle system, well look at India - its a democracy yet the caste issue still runs riot...

Don't think I'll have holy wars though :)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:16, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Plus its great for colonising colonies :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:17, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Principia Moderni II.I
Since the map game looks fun and all, people want to join it, but at the same time it is like over a hundred turns in, so if somone could create maybe another one that goes on during this one, that would be grrrreat Daxus Inferno (talk) 14:14, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

I dont think that is necesary, von made sure that all anyone acomplished was destroyed by the mahdiate...everyone basicaly has to start form scratch. So the game is realy only 25-35 turns in. almost all alliances and states were superimplausiblevendettabalkanized-Lx (leave me a message) 15:38, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's an awesome (not at all) unbiased statement. Fed (talk) 19:18, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * but you do have to agree that the mahdiate basicaly did make everyone restart their entire nations' things, either because balkanizatoin or long ass war.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:22, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

There is no problem in joining the game while it's going on.You just have to make sure that what you say about your nation doesn't contradict in-game reality (or is implausible).the third Castillian player, and the former Cornish player used to do it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:46, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Resignation
While I really hate to do this, but this semester's already too hectic for me to handle, and I doubt I'll be able to play a lot for the next few months. As such, I think it's time for me to retire from the game.

I assume that decades (or centuries if they're lucky) from now, the Papal States are likely to be taken over or reformed in some aspect. All I ask for the sake of the citizens is that they get to retain some of their rights and land (i.e. not being totally assimilated), and that the Papacy continues in some form, LOL.

It's been fun, and I'll pop in from time to time to see how the game's going. I hope to be able to play PMIII, whenever that starts :D. Regards, ChrisL123 (talk) 23:06, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Join the crowd, lol.

Although I don't plan on leaving the game anytime soon. Hope to see you again later!

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  23:11, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Vacation Mode
I'm going to be in Orlando for the next week. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to use the internet in that time. Yank 05:44, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Orlando ehhh? I went there last year in April. Have fun! Scandinator (talk)

Nice place, nice place. Good thing it's not too hot right now. Have fun! CrimsonAssassin (talk) 15:16, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Industrialisation
I've been doing a lot of research into this area and have come up with the following results. In order for a nation to start the Industrial Era. They must first have multiple social and geopolitical factors in play: These factors all clicked for Britain in the early 18th century. Scandinator (talk)

Discussion
This is what I was going to open up in the mod page. So all mods, meet there.AP (talk) 04:00, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Why is Bavaria not listed? It has plenty of Universities, Hans Joseph discovered the optical telescope, and I'd imagine i've plenty of resources,as well as a stable monarchy.Andr3w777 (talk) 05:09, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Brandenburg's colonial empire is vastly larger than the Manchu one. Also, the Indian nations should not be anywhere on this list, and the upper class is pretty big in Venice.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:27, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Also, when was the last time someone invaded Brandenburg?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:31, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

@Andrew Bavaria is on the list now. General Education is teaching everyone to read and write (including the peasants). Also its only stable constitutional monarchies that can make 10 and I'm not sure if you are a constitutional monarchy...

Yes Bavaria has a constitutional monarchy, the queen heads up the reichstag which is the Bavarian parliament.

@Scraw The Indian nations have fulfilled those requirements that they have been listed under. Brandenburg is up there for colonial empire (dunno how I missed it). The "middle class" in the 17th to late 19th century refered to the class of urban-dwellers between the nobility and the peasants. Venice has thousands of traders and merchants in their cities with over 30% of the population in towns and cities compared to ~20% in the German States and less than that everywhere else. The last time Brandenburg's heartlands were attacked and damaged was by the Madhi 50 years ago. Scandinator (talk) 09:17, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Scan, could you give some basic definitions for these categories? (i.e. what resources could be mass-produced? How do you establish religious freedom in the sciences?) CourageousLife (talk) 16:09, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Russia and Scandinavian merchants have formed NETA, the North European Trade Alliance, succesor to RETA(Russo-European Trade Alliance), witch is succesor to the Hanza. NETA maintains strong control over the baltic and black sea markets. Russia has had many scientific advances(although most of them were military and naval in nature to ensure novgorodian market can reach further)...ex. the flintlock, the icebreaker, the rifle, soon the submarine, and universities(the Academy of sciences included) have autonomy from the state or the church if that counts for anything, Russia also pioneered medicine developing a crude smallpox immunization process for the mayans and pioneering human anatomical study..-Lx (leave me a message) 16:47, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

oh, and russia is a big(as in one of the largest) producer of firearms, and most certainly the largest producer in baltic, eastern, and central europe. although I do not know if that is good enough to count as a resource...-Lx (leave me a message) 18:06, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. I thought my trading between the vassals and my merchant fleets heading out to trade with Europe and China was good. Well looks like its not :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:16, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

What does pro-business legal system mean? Also, Cyprus was invaded by the Mahdi too.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  18:26, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

There are several nations that don't have points where they deserve them. Scandinavia and Germany have very large navies and do in fact have the ability to transport the resource, i'm actually not sure about Venice since their navy was annihilated by the Caliphate according to Von. Scandinavia has several scientific universities in the colonies as well as back home. Scandinavia is a constitutional monarchy under the Riksdag and the Queen, Burgundy is one as well. Scandinavia owns the richest farmland in the Eastern seaboard, the Chesapeake and therefore we would be able to mass-produce cotton. Also, the Rajputs and Cyprus were invaded by the Caliphate and Manchuria recently had to deal with a Korean war for independence.''' I would like to further reiterate that any "coincidental changes" in your nation will be ignored as an excuse to get points on this chart. Also to prevent confusion and other crap, only mods may modify this chart'''. AP (talk) 18:38, February 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * The part about the navy does not realy give you a market, however, your participation as one of the elite members of NETA does...you have a market and he hability to market a resource because of the near control of the Baltic sea market and beond with NETA(witch is one of the things i wanted to say).-Lx (leave me a message) 19:35, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * But how do you classify a coincidental change? any change could theorically be considered as such.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:17, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

In agreement to everything you said, I must point out one minor error. Sine has some sort of notion that he can always post to the turn four hours after the new turn starts. In the days of Lurk, this would not have gone unnoticed and would have resulted in a ban ages ago. This also means that the conversion to constitutional monarchy does not count.

One last thing: did Britain really have any form of general education whatsoever?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  19:05, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Important note: No Catholic nation will be able to achieve number 2 because of the Pope and stuff. HERESY and BLASPHEMY and all that, you know?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  19:07, February 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, that makes me happy I am orthodox and the power of the partriarch is much less than that of the pope...although there will be censorships...but a bit less...mostly comming from the state(historicaly, the church ends up in some way shape of form "under" the state in orthodoxy in OTL...Byzantium, Tsarist Russia...witch made russians avoid the "who's power is greater, the emeperor's or the pope's debate that went on in the rest of europe, as the emperor's was clearly superior.)-Lx (leave me a message) 19:35, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if there's a solution to Catholic bonds... <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:05, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

@Europe: Venice will break the Pope's control over science in a few decades with the heir who is a lot less devout that his father. However it will result in internal chaos and the establishment of the Church of Italy and the Pope fleeing to Venaissin or Trier.

@Lx: Outline how you can mass produce rifles without the production line in factories. Rifles are too complex to make the list for any nation bar venice which has the arsenals with their primitive production lines. But this is also a closely guarded secret so you cant just get an arsenal...

@ Everyone: Points 6-9 are linked. To qualify for 8 you need both 6 and 7 and to get 9 you need 8. Britain also had very basic general education for the peasants to allow them to read and write during the early 18th century and the Turks had general education in a few cities in the 12th century.

Also a pro-business legal system is a set of laws that promote cottage businesses and/or merchantilism. If you are a merchant nation or one with scattered outposts for trade you can obtain that point. Scandinator (talk) 00:36, February 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Would my two companies, the South Oceans Company (created over a decade ago), and my North Oceans Company count for merchantilism, along with the encouragement of citizens to become businessmen? [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:17, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Quick question: what product did Britain have?

Also, could the precious gems (diamond, etc) count as one of those products?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:44, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Britain had coal to export, and they manufactered cloth grown in India. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:16, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Mwahahahahaha me has much Ko....el....

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  20:29, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Shame for you. I have the ability for cotton, and I sit on top of India's largest coal reserves XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:21, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Just wait until the Oil age and I shoot up! MWahahahaha! <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:59, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Damn!! XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:17, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Burgundy

 * Location: 5


 * Tactical: 0


 * Strength: Burgundy (L),France (M),Switzerland (MV) (?)= 9 = 0


 * Military: 26 = 0


 * Economy: 0


 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5


 * Chance: 4
 * Nation Age: +0


 * Population: 6


 * Participation: 10


 * Recent wars: -5


 * Total: 25

Luxo-German Coalition

 * Location: +4 (Luxembourg)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: Luxembourg (L), Brandenburg (L), Aragon (MV), Navarre (MV), Austria (S), Scandinavia(M)+ Saami(MV), Venice (M), Saxony (M), Cyprus (M), Crete (MV), Mayan Empire (M), Eire (M) = 36/9 = 4
 * Military: +30 (Brandenburg ~28, Luxembourg ~4) - 32/26 = ~1
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -3
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edit count: 10119
 * UTC: 21:54
 * 10119/40*pi on calculator  = 794.444
 * Nation Age: +0 (Brandenburg)/-10 (Luxembourg)
 * Population: 9 (7 digit population comined, +2 bonus)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6 (Aragonese war [5 years], Bonoman war [undefined length])
 * Total: 22 * 1.5 = 33

Result:
TBD

Discussion
Help welcome.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  22:03, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Austria has an alliance with me so i think it shouldn't be counted

there was Government change, Burgundy is Now a Constitutional monarchy, also why does luxembourg gets the 1.5 if it didn't either revolt or anything Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:08, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, Luxembourg has had a 1.5 multiplier for a while and any revolt (which I didn't see happening) has gone over for a long time.

Anyways, what is it with the House of Luxembourg's recent extreme expansionist wars? Fed (talk) 01:09, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

@Sine your post doesn't count. It was after the new turn was posted.

@Fed Just this turn I had a revolution. And Luxembourg has never had a war since this one.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  01:14, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I skipped over that part, sorry. While I mantain that unless there are massive changes in government a succession struggle isn't enough, that's a fair point. :P

And I kinda meant the House of Luxembourg as in Brandenburg & Co. and Luxembourg & Co. Fed (talk) 01:39, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

These bonuses/penalties are quite ridiculous sometimes as this massive coalition of Europe's great powers can only hardly beat one nation and a few extra troops.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:41, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Count me in. CourageousLife (talk) 00:02, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

My nation Age Should be +5 ,not +0, the last Government change until 1615 was in 1377, Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:18, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

No, your last government change was when you rebelled from France and declared yourself a Kingdom.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:57, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Sunni Caliph
I say, after the end of the previous caliph, a new one should be elected. A council of Sunni Muslims will be held Alhambra to elect a new caliph. Oh, and the Caliph would basicly be like the OTL Shadow Caliph, mainly only for ceremonial, some political(Jihads), and religious matters. Willster22 (User talk:Willster22) 06:45, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

There is the Arabian Caliphate already. Scandinator (talk) 13:45, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

The Abu'ids (those who opposed the Mahdi before he was all Mahdi-y) took o er the Hijaz region during the collapse of the Mahdihate and claim to be the Caliph. Fed (talk) 17:32, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia (Belligerent)
Total: 60
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (High Ground) +1 (Attacker) +5 (Larger colonial empire)
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L+4), 4
 * Military Development: 22/3 = 8
 * Economy: 4/3 = 1
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +5
 * Edit Count: 1852
 * UTC Time: 15:01
 * 1*5*0*1=5
 * 1852/5=370.8
 * 370.8*pi=1163.056
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +17 (Larger population)
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Adal (Defendant)
Total: 44
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Adal (L+4)
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +6
 * Edit Count: 1852
 * UTC Time: 15:01
 * 1*5*0*1=5
 * 1852/5=370.8
 * 370.8*pi=1163.056
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
60/104 - 0,5 x 2 = 0,153846154

Ethiopia can take 15,3% of Adal Territory so far. Ethiopian victory so far.

Discussion
If I've messed anything up, please say so now. If not, I wish to vassalize this annoying nation. Took me close to a century and a half, but I finally did it. Adal is mine. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:22, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

So, I fixed a few things. You can expand your military and your economy, but you can only include one in the algorithm. After that, you divide the strength of the aggressor by the defender. Apart from the population, which Collie will have to look up for me, the rest is fine.108.214.113.122 21:47, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

That was me btw.AP (talk) 21:48, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks AP. Also, I expanded the military, economy, and infastructure at the same time after the invasion of Travancore (I believe more than 15 years ago). Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Man, how can u only get 1.8%? Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:11, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

I look at it an shake my head. I upgraded my military, economy, and infastructure 15+ years straight. By only my military is shown to have been upgraded. Should be close to 30%. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:19, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * This 1,8 makes no sense.Your actual result would be more like 11%, war duration undefined.And plus, the 25 for military development also makes no sense, as there ain't no way of getting a uneven number for this.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:04, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Give it to me straight doc. Can we fix it? Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:08, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Now you guys can see why I hate the NPC bonuses. Adal should've been gone a long time ago.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  19:24, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

And I agree. Seriously, what was the rationale behind providing bonuses to NPCs? Historically, most of the NPC nations were stagnent in all three areas, and Adal was a weak kingdom that had been destroyed by the Portuguese-backed Ethiopians. I mean seriously, when 400 Europeans help wipe out a force of 14,000 warriors, you've got a problem. By the way, Adal collapsed as a nation 1577. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:28, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * In order to not make them too easy to defeat. We were having this kind of problem before hand.without a NPC bonus, one could, say, invade France while it was inactive and topple their government, theorically.Anyway, the number difference falls more into having more advanced technology.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:01, February 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well there should be two forms of NPC bonuses. One, a strong NPC nation gets them, while some backward African/Indian nation doesn't. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:56, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I put the correct number in (61), and got 35.4%. May I annex Adal now? Also, which is more beneficial; vassalization or annexation? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:34, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

How are you calculating this? you only would get 35% if you got 100 points or so.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:44, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

I fixed it, no problems now... :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:22, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

There was still one.attacking nations don't receive any points for infrastructure.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:32, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Naval battles?
I'm just curious. If another country's navy is blockading my country, can my Navy fight those ships with the warfare algorithm? Stewdio333 (talk) 21:34, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

There is no real precedent in this matter. But if your entire coast has been blockaded and it is reasonably plausible then no you wouldn't be able to. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:27, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Arabian federation
Total: 43
 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: (colonial empire & attacks adv.) +6
 * Strength: Arabian federation (L), Comchellak (MV): 6/4 = +2
 * Military Development: 6/3 = +2
 * Economy: 0/3 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -8
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +1
 * Edit Count: 6,450
 * UTC Time: 23:11 - 6
 * 2*3*1*1 = 6
 * 6,450/6*pi= 3377.21210261
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: (20+7) +27
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Wehali
Total: 38
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Wehali (L): 4/6 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/6 = 0
 * Economy: 3/0 = +3
 * Infrastructure: +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +2
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: (5) +5
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result

 * Arabian victory
 * ((43/(38+43))*2)-1 = 0.06172839506
 * 6.17*(1-1/(2*2)) = 4.6275
 * 4.63% of Wehali's 575 pixels is 27 pixels.
 * Arabian federation wins 27 pixels from Wehali.

Discussion
I'll finish this war up tomorrow. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:27, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

YEah it'll be a 2 year war. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:45, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Treaty over Burgundy
Luxembourg is taking the Mediterranean coastline.

Venice is taking areas of Switzerland. The rest is gaining independence.

Crete and the Mayans get colonies/parts of colonies.

What doth me fellow winners thinketh?

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:37, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'll talk to you about dividing the colonies and such. CourageousLife (talk) 21:41, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'm happy with my gains; if nobody else is interested in the northern Antilia colony CorageousLife and I will partition it. I'll create a map over the next few hours. Airlinesguy (talk) 22:04, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking something like this CourageousLife (talk) 23:54, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

We haven't won by nearly enough to take that much land. Cyprus is asking for too much. The real leaders are Germany, Venice, and Scandinavia.AP (talk) 23:57, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

But they hath surrendereth. Anywho, I was thinking they could divide the Colombian colony.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:04, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but we still have to adhere to what we won on the algorithm unless they want to give more up.AP (talk) 00:08, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Has the algorithm been completed yet? Besides, one of the conditions of surrender could be that they relinquish some of their colonies. CourageousLife (talk) 00:14, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

And neither Cyprus or the Mayan are really interested in the southern colony, we're both interested in Neu Antwerp. We just divided it because we assumed it was an option also. CourageousLife (talk) 00:24, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Can I instead of taking parts of Switzerland take East Panama? Scandinator (talk) 05:22, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * You were fighting for Switzerland, so you can have Switzerland. Me and Airlines were fighting in the colonies, so we are taking the colonies. CourageousLife (talk) 20:28, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

This map is wrong.Burgundy acquired the mainland part of the Portuguese/Castillian colony on OTL Guyana and gave part of Brasilea in return for it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 06:54, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's the 1615 map, so it would be an issue with the mapmaker. CourageousLife (talk) 20:28, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, this couldn't be taken into account yet, as they only sold it around 1617.but it will be on the 1620 map.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:02, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

And plus, the coalition only won 13,7% of Burgundy according to the algorythm, or 583 px.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:04, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa
Total: 56
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (4+2+2+3) 11/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 22/3 = 8
 * Economic: 4/3 = 1
 * Infrastructure: = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 9948
 * Time: 18:10 = 8
 * (9948/8)*pi = 5906.570464736
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Bijapur
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: (4) 4/11 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/22 = 0
 * Economic: 3/4 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
((57/(57+32)*2)-1 = 0.2808988

Orissa can lay claim to 28% of Bijapur. In five years, they can capture 25.2% of however many pixels Bijapur has.

Discussion
Get Collie or Von over here. I need to know how many pixels Bijapur has... Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:33, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Again, attacking nations get no points for infrastructure.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, February 21, 2013 (UTC)