Talk:Huguang-Zhongyuan (1983: Doomsday)

Will continue editing tomorrow.

Canuck2012 01:43, June 8, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

That map is not even remotely accurate, Canuck.

I really doubt this could work, overall - it's located pretty close to a strike, and would get refugees from more of them. Add to that that it is right next to the PRC - who wouldn't stand for it - and would get fallout pretty bad.

Lordganon 11:12, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Shall I make it smaller?

Canuck2012 19:46, June 8, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

...That's not the problem. The size isn't a factor, but rather the location. And the map is, quite honestly, still very wrong. Lordganon 02:07, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I'll move the NPRC to some other place...I just really like the city of Luoyang (is there someway I can make it Luoyang?). The map isn't necessarily supposed to be accurate, it's what the NPRC claims China and surrounding territories should look like. Basically, the NPRC in it's early days was very nationalistic.

Canuck2012 20:16, June 9, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

If I can't use Luoyang or Chengdu, could you please suggest a city that I could use, LordGanon? I'd like a city or town that was and is an important historical and cultural centre of China.

Canuck2012 20:42, June 9, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Darn! Chengdu was nuked, and Luoyang...I've abandoned. Does Lichang work?

Canuck2012

No nationalist Chinese state would even remotely consider those borders to be accurate. Moreover, such a map is just wrong to have here, anyways.

I assume that since Lichang doesn't come up with anything you are referring to Licheng instead. Of the four entries, one is in Jiangsu, two are in Taiwan, and the fourth is in this region. However, the same problem exists - while the radiation and refugee problem isn't as bad, the PRC situation is much worse, even more so because it's in an area that actually would have been explored without a doubt, given their relations with Jiangsu. And if you're referring to Liyang, that's both close to the Dragons, and several strikes.

As for those centers.... well, there isn't anything usable. Nor is the current "capital."

Simply put, there is no way something in this area is going to work.

Lordganon 01:36, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry. I made a spelling mistake. It's not Lichang, it's Yichang. In regards to your other comment, than there shouldn't be any nations in or around Europe: It received a huge deal more radiation than central China. According to the map for nuclear contamination, that is.

Canuck2012 03:39, June 10, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

You're not quite getting the point. The refugee populations, and raider populations, are far in excess of the numbers in Europe. And, actually, the bombs in this area were far larger than most of the ones in Europe - along with the radiation blanketing the region in question, while in Europe most of it melted off into low-population areas, mountains, or water.

Now, Yichang.... yes, that's in a spot that may work. However, it would have to be small. If it's too big, than it's not plausible - the Dragons and Tigers both raid(ed) large territories.

Lordganon 04:06, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I understand now.

Canuck2012 12:58, June 10, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Only the eastern part is plausible - the west would have been too irradiated. Add to it that the location you're referring to was abandoned, never actually used, and held basically nothing inside of it. There was never a garrison, and it had been without anyone in it for over a decade by DD.

And, that map really needs to go.

Population is far too high.

Making up people, as you have done, is very frowned upon.

No such nation as "Longguo."

The raiders would never have gone that far. That's why it's possible for this to exist. If they had, it would not.

Army numbers are far too large.

Lordganon 08:15, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Since when is making people up frowned upon? Also, yeah, that map is pretty ridiculous. Oerwinde 10:25, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Since always? There is absolutely never any reason to do it. Especially when any research will find others.

Lordganon 10:50, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

This is the first I've heard of it, especially when most people here do it. And most people who would logically be in any of the positions they would fit in, likely wouldn't be in those positions due to Doomsday and everything changing. With billions dead and the events that lead people to their positions in life no longer happening, there would be tons of people who would be no-name nobodies OTL that would rise to the occaision ATL. Oerwinde 18:36, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, for the map thing, tohse borders don't exist. It's only what's claimed. And if you think those are very unreasonable claims, have you seen the claims that the ROC have made against the mainland, Mongolia, the 'Stans, Burma, and India? I will remove the western portion, and the only reason the population and stuff was too big was because of the second city.

Canuck2012 23:24, June 11, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Lordganon, I feel that Canuck2012 is perfectly within his rights to create fictional people for his 1983: Doomsday proposals. I back my views by pointing out that the People (1983: Doomsday) page has a section for fictional people. I believe that you probably want to go and delete all mention of the characters from the fictional people section, now that I brought them to your attention. However, the fictional people section of the People (1983: Doomsday) includes characters like Clyde Harness and Boss Jones. Clyde Harness and Boss Jones have been part of the 1983: Doomsday cannon for a long time. Also, they have been mentioned in multiple 1983: Doomsday pages. Thus, deleting all mention of them would mean reworking several pages that have long been established as part of the 1983: Doomsday timeline. Also, the creators of Clyde Harness and Boss Jones would probably be upset with you for making them alter their contributions that have long been part of the 1983: Doomsday. Thus, I feel you should not delete the fictional people section and allow Canuck2012 to use fictional people his in 1983 Doomsday proposals. I mean no disrespect in this opinion.

Goldwind1 02:24, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we are well aware that those borders do not exist, Canuck. That is the problem.

Population is still too big. The other city being removed is irrelevant.

Gold, you need to start putting your comments at the end of pages. Annoying, at best, when you don't.

Gold, at best, that was disrespectful. More like insulting. And rather highly so. Don't ever speak like that to someone again.

There are four entries on the fictional section. Now, note the length of the "real" section, to compare. And that those fictional people are from the early days of the timeline. And, of those, only two involve more than one spot, the people page aside, and only one of those isn't something that could be changed fairly easily.

Oer, you are incorrect. Almost no one does it, because any research will normally give you real people, no matter their position otl.

Simple fact is that the fictional people in this article need to be removed. Even more so because the setting involved as written is not in the least bit possible.

A quick search on wikipedia found four people from the area.


 * Lu Banglie, a democracy activist from Zhijiang, a city close to the new capital of Yichang.
 * Luo Qingquan, a politician from Yichang.
 * Wei Yili, a badminton player from Yichang
 * Hu Yang Lin(give or take) better known as "Populus", a singer from Yichang.

Easy.

Lordganon 05:08, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Oh. I just realized something. That space is for the locator map. So it has to be accurate. Oops! I'll change that.

I didn't think of googling people from the area -I just looked for democratic activists from China....

How long will it take to settle in the rest of Hubei?

Canuck2012 23:40, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Didn't even bother to use google. When I said it was just wikipedia, I meant it, lol.

Liu Yandong was in Beijing at DD. Very dead.

Zhou Qiang was studying at the Southwest University of Political Science & Law in Chongqing in 1983. Also dead.

Yu Zhengsheng was in Zhangjiakou, more or less a suburb of Beijing, in 1983. Dead too.

Population and military numbers are still off. Nor are the demographics at all accurate.

The military would be almost entirely infantry. Nor would it have a naval component.

There are no raids from the Dragons or Tigers here. If there were, it would have ceased to exist long ago.

As for the rest of Hubei, this state would not be in a position to even begin to start doing that.

Lordganon 09:40, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

How did you find that information?! When I googled those people, nothing like that came up... Canuck2012 20:56, June 13, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Power of the great historian, my dear friend ;) Google has only 1% of world's information. ;-) Doctor261  (Talk to Doctor261) 20:57, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Lordganon, do you know of any people from the Hubei region and surrounding provinces who could have formed the NPRC after Doomsday? And I don't suppose there would be any prominent women politicians from the time? Will work on demographics later. Though considering how there are three cities within the NPRC, it's hard not to see around 5 million people living there.

Canuck2012 21:04, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Put the names into wikipedia. Didn't need google at all.

You've basically got the guys I listed. You can add Bié bì Xióng (more or less the name) to it. Mayor of Xiangyang otl, was in the Yichang region at Doomsday.

No, no women politicians. Little rare in China, truth be told.

5 million, about 2 million too high. Remember how fast the population of China rose after DD - and how the large population would mean more die than elsewhere.

Lordganon 06:03, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Would the singer and tennis player be interested in politics, though?

Canuck2012 22:23, June 14, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Depends on what happened to them after doomsday.Oerwinde 01:45, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yep. But that's the beauty of things - in a democratic society, even a partially democratic one, compared to the communism of otl, and the lack of a need for their otl occupations atl, it's perfectly within reason that they might go into politics here instead. Lordganon 05:51, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

What about Liang Guanglie, Liao Xilong, Chang Wanquan, Jing Zhiyuan, and Xi Jinping, and Liu Yongqing?

Canuck2012 22:28, June 15, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Liang Guanglie was stationed with the 20th Group Army at Kaifeng in 1983. Nowhere near this area, and would have received direct fallout from the strike on Zhengzhou.

Liao Xilong was stationed in the area of the border with Vietnam in 1983. Dead, given how things turned out there.

Chang Wanquan was not stationed in the region. Seems to have been in Hebei.

Jing Zhiyuan was in the Chinese strategic missile forces. Also nowhere near, and probably dead.

Xi Jinping was in the province of Hebei. Nowhere near here.

Liu Yongqing was already married by this point to her husband - and they were in Bejing in 1983.

Again, wikipedia.

Lordganon 08:28, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

Ah well. I guess I'll just use these guys. And I mixed Hubei with Hebei. Oops.

Canuck2012 15:26, June 16, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

LG... I seem to remember you railing at me for making up a character with Isiro. You never told me that there were fictional characters already created. -_-.... Vir prudens non contraventum mingit 18:56, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

See the posts I have already made here on the matter. Lordganon 06:47, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

And it doesn't matter anyway. I've already made the necessary changes.

Canuck2012 22:07, June 17, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Also, when will I be able to open diplomacy with other nations and the LoN? Before or after this article has been accepted? Or does it matter?

Canuck2012 22:16, June 17, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

You can put dates in and we'll touch up our articles after yours graduates. I also touched up your motto as it was very awkward. Yes I do speak Chinese. Also, hello from Guangxi. Scandinator (talk) 05:17, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

You can write in some sort of relations with nearby powers - but only within reason. Remember, China is mostly empty, and overland communication is poor, at best.

As for the LoN, that is mostly done by common sense - can't be a dictatorship, sponsor of terrorism, blocked by any powers on the Council, has to be in real contact with the outside world, etc. I'm inclined to think that the blockage and contact would be problems for you.

Lordganon 05:59, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Being landlocked, with hostile nations blocking both the east and southern routes, and no source of fuel for air travel, I'm guessing they wouldn't even really know of the LoN.Oerwinde 06:18, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...thanks guys! And I used Google Translate for the Chinese, so...

Canuck2012 00:57, June 19, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Would it be possible to start settling the unoccupied western regions of Hubei? Or is it too soon?

Canuck2012 01:25, June 25, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Not evenly remotely possible.

I'd also note that they have virtually no production capacity, or ability to mine much of anything. As an fyi.

Lordganon 02:18, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, so they'd only have water, electricity, cotton, rice and tea available? Canuck2012 03:16, June 25, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Electricity is unlikely on any real level. You're thinking the dams exist, but they don't. Weren't built otl until the 1990s, remember. Lordganon 03:35, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

No, I'm referring to wind power. The wooden farm turbine kind.

Canuck2012 22:55, June 25, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Even that is unlikely. Wind power, for grinding grains, etc., maybe. But for electricity, no. Lordganon 04:17, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Name
I think a more suitable name would be the Nationalist Republic of China. Just my thoughts! :D Imperium Guy 21:56, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, but I disagree. The Nationalist Republic of China is already in use on the wiki, and I honestly like the sound of the NPRC! Also, Nationalist Republic simply denotes a more right-wing or fanatic government, and would not be approved of in the present, democratic state of the country. National is also used to denote it as a seperate state as the PRC.

Canuck2012 00:15, June 28, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

LordGanon, I honestly don't see any problem with having wind-generated power. There are farms in the world that use wooden turbines for power. I think you think I mean windmill, but I mean this:

I also think they'd be able to mine. Not the fancy techno way of doing it, but good ol' pickaxes and maybe dynamite.

And I thought I got rid of the hydroelectric stuff?

Canuck2012 00:20, June 28, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

No, it is not in use on this wiki already. Nor does it denote a more right-wing or fanatic government.

Those are windmills. Nor is that wooden. And, those are not windmills for generating electricity - only wind power for things like grinding grains, as I've already said on this page. Moreover, the movement you get from those cannot be transferred. For them to produce electricity you need turbines and/or generators - they will not have either.

There is a major difference between mining, and what you've been telling Scan. They are not able to mine those things.

And as for the dams, please read my last post.

Lordganon 00:29, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

...And no solar-powered cars, either.

For that matter, you have no electric grid.

Lordganon 00:32, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

I was just stating that they are researching, that doesn't mean that they have the technology. I'm going to edit the power things in just a sec. And can you please explain in detail why mining technologies wouldn't exist?

Canuck2012 17:00, June 28, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

They aren't even going to be researching solar cars. They have no tech to even consider that.

Because there were not any there to do mining in any way before DD, and the area is worse off than otl?

Lordganon 20:19, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Would biofuels work instead of solar power?

And I'm still confused with the mining bit. There are minesweeper and quarries located in Hubei, and I found a picture of one outside of Hubei via Wikipedia. If they weren't able to mine, why would they have mines and quarries?

Canuck2012 03:40, June 29, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

No, not even biofuels.

Quarries are not mines. Not even close.

Mining, especially to mine these items, involves a lot more than just the resource being there. These don't exist in the area. Special tools, machinery, explosives, etc. - none of it.

Lordganon 06:50, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. So stone materials would be available, but no metals?

Canuck2012 20:11, June 30, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Pretty much. There would likely be some metals, but not in significant amounts. Lordganon 22:59, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

K. Thanks for the info, and all the help in the past!

Canuck2012 01:23, July 1, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

No problem. Lordganon 01:48, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

On another note, any contact with the Tigers or Dragons would pretty much mean those "meeting" them don't come back, if you catch my drift. Lordganon 01:50, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

A potential catalyst for war, mwahahahaha!!!

Since I brought the topic up, how does warfare work in the Doomsday world?

Canuck2012 01:30, July 2, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Both parties run it through the process.

Your new edits - Enshi is reasonable, Wuhan is not.

Lordganon 03:01, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

What about a settlement named Wuhan and Wuchang built outside of OTL Wuhan?

Canuck2012 23:34, July 2, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

No. It's not just a matter of the nuked city, but also the Dragons. Until they are gone, that's within range. Lordganon 04:55, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Ah yes. I haven't taken a look at the map lately. That's dangerously close to the Dragons. Any colonists would surely be killed.

Canuck2012 18:23, July 3, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

So you won't accept the name I proposed? :( Imperium Guy 20:27, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

More or less, Can. Though enslaved is likely closer to the truth. Lordganon 00:57, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

No, Imp. Thanks for the consideration, but I think the current name sounds better.

And I didn't thin of enslaved. But that is still a cause for war >:).

Canuck2012 13:46, July 4, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

So, looks good. Ready for grad?

The Royal Guns (talk) 09:28, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Are there things that still need a little editing here? It looks good enough for me, but then I could be wrong... Godfrey Raphael (talk) 16:06, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it still gives them tech they wouldn't have. Lordganon (talk) 07:43, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, and what exactly is this tech? Godfrey Raphael (talk) 12:18, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Various tech levels are often mentioned. As are color TVs, wind farms, aircraft... the list goes on. This is something I've been over with the author before. Lordganon (talk) 12:24, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Canuck's a little active around the wiki right now, although I don't know if he's still interested in continuing the NPRC... Godfrey Raphael (talk) 13:13, January 28, 2013 (UTC)