User talk:PitaKang/Archive 4

Alliance
Accepted. --"Truth fears no questions..." 22:32, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, would it be possible for me to make a empire made of two smaller ones? The Gemini Federation would constitute the larger portion, while my planned one would make up the smaller one (like 0.005% of it). It would go hand-in-hand with the whole racial confederacy thing. --"Truth fears no questions..." 22:35, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the info. --"Truth fears no questions..." 22:43, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

BFER Stuff
Here is the link. This page has all of the political entities in the timeline. As you will see, some other players have lent me their species/empires to create the galactic community. Feel free to look around, although not much is done.

http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Political_Entities_%28Rivalry%29

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 22:46, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
you find the TL interesting? iom looking for help with ideas, sorry about the korea thing its just part of the timeline but the situation will improve for them in the future.Nkbeeching

Ill do some fine tuning later and ill incorperate him but the results would have been the same im afraid despite one general. Yi was the major factor since he controled the seas which were the japanese supply line and reinforcements. but ill incorperate the general in the counter offensive when china joined the conflict.

Dirty Job
It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.

I'm like the English professor in the men's room:

I don't write on the walls - I just correct the spelling and grammar.

EoGuy (talk) 00:30, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

BFERRRRR Stuff
I am rather upset with you as of late. Let's cut to the beef.

A: I do not appreciate your creating false colonies of mine. Or naming them.

B: Anyone would more or less know that historically, the Regenetech Empire does not get dragged into war lest the Dravimos or Azaranian got themselves into a war. So these Constantinoplians (I forget the name) would have a hard time convincing anyone that the Regenetech Empire destroyed property of another nation with being engaged in existing war with that nations. Part of the Constitution, Article 639: The Empire shall not be the opening aggressor of anyone war unless it is an interior war or part of an expansion campaign into unclaimed territory.

C: The word is "Azaranian" and not "Azarian." And there is an existing flag for the Azaranians out there somewhere.

D: The humans are the only inhabitants of the Sol System.

E: The sheer sizes of the Azaranian and Regenetech Empire warrant a massively large population, making the Terran Empire look impossibly small in numbers and size.

F: The Galactic Alliance is established, and has been since 85 billion years. (The true age of the canon races can be placed at c. 100 to 300 billion years ago, choose your number any time.) And it comprises of the Regenetech Empire, Dravimosian Empire, Azaranian Empire, and Caborr Consulate, and it started when the four nations became neighbors. Meanwhile on the other side of the Galaxy, the Terran Empire allied to several neighboring nations and consolidated those nations into a megastate: the XYZ Republic (Currently lacking a name, name as you wish.) and allied with the Soram Empire and the new Hanzen Empire, formed from the overthrown Hanzen Republic. Both are large in population and size, and strong as well, and the Democrists to form the Quadruple Alliance. The Mechs remain isolated in their corner of the Galaxy, while other nations are scaterred about. And so the QA and GA do not fight interiorly.

G: Other nations are not as genocidal and homocidal as the Terran Empire.

H: If you had simply read what we had already, none of this would have happened!

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:49, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Its revolutions, not reloaded (LOL!). :P Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:18, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Trolololololol! :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:34, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Lol, the Pepsi was asking for it... :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:56, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

A: Correction: No colonies, as titling a territory as such makes them feel lesser. And it can't as far flung as you can imagine, as every sector of the Empire would have to be close to a provincial capital. Sheesh, didn't you ever see Star Wars?

B: The Cornstantians can believe it, but convincing their allies would be a tough job, and Germany only got Japan and Italy in on the act because of their pact. And the Regenetechs could easily crush the Cornstantians after a declaration of war and before they could mobilize all their troops. Nazi Germany attacked a lesser enemy--attacking the Regenetech would mean practical suicide.

C: Oh darn it. I was supposed to make the flag for Lx (I did too) but I never uploaded it!

D: Venusians ring a bell?

E: The Brits kept 1/3 of the globe under control, I could the same with 1/4 the galaxy.

F: Oh, that should have been millions. My mistake.

G: So killing tens of millions of defending people is not homicidal?

H: I said it was in my sandbox and under the BFER category. Not my problem if you're too lazy to go look for it.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:09, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

It would be easier--far more easier, in fact--to frame the Azaranians, well known for aggressive tendencies and also one to harbor grudges. Saying "Oh, the Azaranians did it" could keep all convinced for a short time.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:13, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

re:Terran Empire
I like it. It's good to see another user be detailed with these things. The Mech page is a bitch to write because I put so much detail into that concept >_< CrimsonAssassin (talk) 11:49, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Sure. If I'm still here after this little Pact 3 debacle, I'd love to. The Royal Guns (talk) 19:58, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

The Phantoms are long gone. Those that survived the war have either died due to low population/food numbers or have completely evolved into different beings over the span of 65 million years. Planets with Phantom cities or outposts were bombarded after the war as 'cleansing'. To put it bluntly, the Phantoms are extinct and their artifacts are extremely rare. Thanks for the offer though. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 02:00, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
you know the name of the son of Yi hon was, i cant find it in english or spanish and i need the name for the timeline.

Nkbeeching

Yi hon was Gwanghaegun the son of king Seonjo, he was dethroned in a coup in OTL.

Nkbeeching

all texts ive read about him explicitly say he had a son, who was the son of the princess consort Munseong, his wife. but i cant find his name

alright ill have to right him as a forgoten figure in history in the timeline who didnt do much in his regime and is widely considered a puppet of the japanese Kampaku through his marraige, while that is the intention, i wanted a name so i could go into detail now i cant.

dont worry ill just spin it arround, but ill still keep you as an advisor for the timeline.

whats your general opinion of the tl btw. is it any good, and is it plausible and not biased.

Nkbeeching

ill be editing the first part of the timeline later i on. i know they would have had initial problems, that will be part of the 1592-95 part until the treaty which officially allies japan with korea.

Esperanto here?
Does anyone in any alternate history speak La Internacia Lingvo (The Inter-national Language) better known as Esperanto?

EoGuy = Esperanto Guy.

Well, *I* do - and teach it also.

EoGuy (talk) 00:54, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Music
Not bad with the lil' box man guy, but listen to Public Enemy - Harder Than you Think and Fazer - Killer. They are good songs (along with one of my all time favourites Too Close by Alex Clare!). :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:09, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'll give it my best sho, as long as he doesn't block me! BTW, did you hear the music I suggested? :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:17, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Done, thank Dean! :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:34, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

re: BFE
Go for it! Will there be any differences between the game and the fanfic? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 00:43, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Now are these timelines on fanfic.net open? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 00:52, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I mean can other people edit them as well as the guy in charge of the fanfic? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 15:46, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Finality
Really?! You'd let me write it :D Thanks! Scandinator (talk) 05:54, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know how to edit it. Is it ok if I start anew? Scandinator (talk) 08:59, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

A Soviet Axis
As I seem to recall telling you before, there is no way that the Soviets and Nazis just start being allied like that. There needs to be a reason for it. You do not have one. Nor is it at all possible for one that early. The hate each other, remember. And that part isn't going to change.

Germany really isn't capable of invading Denmark in addition to those areas.

Germany also needs those troops elsewhere, and is not capable of sending them to Egypt at that point. Moreover, the Italian colonial forces, while inept, actually far outnumbered the British defenders. Not that they stood a chance, mind - they were pretty useless, overall.

If the US has declared war on the Germans, why on earth would they be ordering sanctions? The first kind of negates the latter.

Why would the Soviets be involved or declared war on? They haven't done a thing, barring the impossible alliance, that they did not do in otl. Heck, they've done less, which makes little sense either.

One sunk ship isn't going to get the US into the war.

The USSR, as was proven on several occasions, would have steamrolled the Japanese. There is a very good reason they did so in 1945 - one that had little to do with Japanese losses elsewhere, for their forces in the area were still virtually intact by that point.

Finns would not let the USSR get that far. More importantly, you refer to them invading just before winter, but the given date is in June. The Germans would also not let the Soviets do that. They only got away with it otl because they were opposed. Any sort of alliance, and the whole attack goes out the window.

Germans aren't really capable of launching attacks from sea like that. Nor would the Soviets have let them do that, or not have had it already under their control in the first place.

No way the Soviets would retreat from that point.

The Germans will not invade Switzerland. Not only would it be something that would take months, at best, it would be a worse sore in their side than Spain was in Napoleon's. Attacking your bank, and your main area of intel operations, is also not ever a good idea. Basically, there is not benefit to doing it.

Soviet ships don't have the ability to do that. The Soviets have basically no navy. And what they do have is pretty well stuck where it is based.

Lordganon (talk) 05:46, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

No, they actually did not request anything, or be offered it. Negotiations did happen, though exactly how legitimate they were is a matter of some debate.

What they actually were about was another treaty like the one signed over Poland.

Let's just say that they couldn't bullshit their way though a second one. Have a look at the demands for the reasoning for that one.

Really, Pita, those talks were just about securing their border temporarily - that's all either side expected from it.

Logistics - there were shortages, more that you'd think, during the invasion of the Low Countries, and then France, otl. Adding Denmark to that mix makes it worse. And, as well, the forces in question that would need to be used would stand a good chance of allowing the French to halt the attack in the west through the reduced numbers there.

"Almost declared" is not declared, remember. And that was actually far from the only ship sunk in that war before the Germans stopped sinking neutrals.

U-boats are not going to be sinking American ships like you've got written. The Germans aren't stupid - they know it will bring in the USA, like in WWI, to do unrestricted submarine warfare. They also won't operate anywhere in that region.

Mexico would not even consider such a thing. They didn't like the Germans either, quite frankly, for the same reasons as the US.

Hitler didn't get "crazy" until the end. There is absolutely no way that the Germans invade Switzerland.

There is no way a Treaty like otl gets signed in 1937. Really, that it got signed at all otl was shocking. And you're ignoring the fact that they hate each other. There is a very good reason why the Soviets went to the west first, and spent a very long time on it. The Japanese not being part of the Axis would have no impact on that part.

You kinda missed my point about Egypt - the Brits defeated an Italian force that outnumbered them ridiculously easily. It wasn't even a contest - the Italians were that much of a joke. Nor would it be a "ruse." The Brits wouldn't even need to rush troops there - and what forces they did move wouldn't have been moved there from anywhere in Europe, either.

The Italians would try to invade southern France, as well. But until they invaded there and in Egypt, they wouldn't have been involved in the war, or even have declared it. The attack in France goes just about as well as the one in Egypt.

Pita, there is a nice article on wikipedia about ways the USSR almost got into a slight alliance with the Germans - not that the word "alliance" is really inaccurate there - you may want to look on there for it.

Lordganon (talk) 04:51, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Please don't copy my posts when you respond, Pita. All it does is fill up my talk page. I know what you're talking about, remember.

Have a good, hard, look at the Soviet demands. There is no way on earth the Nazis would ever have given it to them.

The US will eventually get into the war. Look at their otl actions - by sheer accident, if nothing else (and even without any, may I add) something will happen and the US will intervene. Just a question of time. They were escorting convoys, and even had their naval vessels hit a couple of times, remember. They even sank an old destroyer otl, and severely damaged others. Heck, an order was even given in the fall of 1941 to fire on any U-boats US naval vessels saw. Just a matter of time until things go too far.

The Germans did still sink some American ships, too. Not many, but accidents happen. No liners, however - they were normally fast enough to be easily safe, and quit sailing to Europe not long after the war started anyways.

Basically, either through German actions, or Roosevelt, given it was an eventual goal of his, American intervention will happen. Especially if the Japanese are fighting the "Reds" in Asia, which will kill off pressure on them by the USA in most ways, and largely end fighting in China too, maybe even making then come to an agreement with the Nationalists to fight Mao instead of each other.

Estimates for otl generally give, at most, until the next summer after when PH happened otl before the Germans and Americans were at war with each other.

The invasion of Manchuria, as an fyi, would be in multiple spots, and largely from the north. Not Vladivostok, which is vulnerable to attacks from the sea and a spot which would be fairly easily to cut off supplies from.

No, that article was not the one.

This article on intervention in the Winter War was what I was referring to. You seem to have found it. However, the ideas present here are not realistic, and would not have been undertaken. It also would have gotten Norway and Sweden against them, but not dragged the Soviets into an "alliance" with the Germans - they wouldn't be joining the Axis, nor any arrangement be permanent by any means. The two going to war is basically a given - just a question of when, and which one invades the other to start it.

An arrangement of convenience, if you would. Nothing more, nothing less - like their otl Treaty. Them actually joining the Axis just wouldn't happen.

Operation Pike is more likely the cause. It's actually realistic.

Not even close to why Hitler did it. The Germans, in fact, had more than enough fuel from the small fields in Germany, the large ones in Romania, and whatever fuel they and the Italians could get from Libya. He did if for "living space," ideology, decades-old German goals, and his own, and that of many of his party members, extreme personal hatred of "Slavs."

The USSR offering cheap oil has no effect, and had absolutely nothing to do with the otl problems with an arrangement.

Again - no Treaty is going to be signed in 1937, for anything. No Japan arrangement would not change the Soviet goals.

No amount of pressure is going to get Norway and Sweden to cave. It is just not going to happen.

Again - Germany isn't going to be invading Estonia.

A declaration of war has to actually pass through both chambers of Congress.

Roosevelt isn't going to be making a demand like that over one liner, or even several. Especially not that early.

Lordganon (talk) 06:33, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Whitworth actually got that otl. The Allied Fleet crushed the German Navy.

Heck, the Allied forces deployed to the area even on land vastly outnumbered the Germans. They were on the verge of actually forcing a German surrender when they had to be withdrawn otl.

Nor would they be "occupying" anything - and you forget entirely that Sweden is still in the way, so any intervention isn't possible.

Finns would sign the treaty irregardless. There's nothing the Allies could do to help them before the Soviets took all Finland, and the Finns knew it.

The Admiral's warning wouldn't be just about passenger liners - but about all neutral shipping.

Lordganon (talk) 21:17, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Most of his generals, in fact, did not want to go through Central Belgium. Nor did Hitler. And with good reason, given the problems in WWI and the areas where Allied troops were. An attack on that axis just wouldn't happen.

Yes, the Nazis had a "plan" for it. Doesn't mean that was any chance of it actually happening.

The USSR invading Japan would not be a PoD.

Allies aren't going to be winning battles like that. There's a reason why the Germans made progress otl. Yes, they can win battles - but nowhere near like you're writing.

The Brits aren't going to just leave Norway like that without a reason. They hold all the advantages without events like otl making them leave.

Lordganon (talk) 07:31, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

If you look at Allied planning, and where they anticipated having their forces, they actually expected, in most ways, the Germans to attack somewhere in the region that they did otl. The Germans just struck with so much force, and in two locations at nearly the same time, contrary to their expectations, that the Allies could do little with their inadequate forces to stop it.

Really, about the only part of that that they failed to heed was the parts about airborne and glider landings. And that was so radical, that it was realistic for them to not believe it. The landings only achieved their success through sheer shock and surprise. The casualties and failures involved with later operations of that nature speak for themselves.

If the Allies hadn't moved into Belgium, then the end would have come faster. And it would have been far west of Dunkirk where the Allies would have been evacuating in that scenario.

Pita, you're entirely ignoring why they didn't like his plan. It concentrated almost all of their armored forces into a small area, and created major potential for a supply problem. They didn't hate it overall, just that part of it.

And, for that matter, the attack otl did go into Belgium - and not in any small way, either.

The generals would not have agreed on an attack like you describe. They weren't stupid - there's no way they would have done an attack exactly like what they attempted in WWI again.

If the Brits stay in Narvik, it only makes in harder for the Germans to get their ore delivered. It doesn't cut them off from it. It will, however, make it easier for the Brits to get some of it.

Lordganon (talk) 03:28, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

...If Chamberlain had done that, war would have started over Czechoslovakia instead of Poland. Just under a year ahead of otl.

And a delay of 5-6 months would have meant a German invasion of France and the Low Countries in the middle of winter. Three guesses how that would have went, and the probability of such an attack being launched then in the first place.

Lordganon (talk) 04:55, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

The Germans would have ended up stuck in Czechoslovakia. Without being able to devote full strength to that front - have to have some troops on the French border, after all - and the Czechs having both better defenses and equipment than the Poles did, it would take quite some time for the Germans to take it. Really, they may not be able to even take the area in that context, depending on the French, and even to some degree the Poles.

Eventually, they'd have taken the area. I'm pretty confidant of that. Would have been a lot of dead Germans, however, and their efforts afterwards would be significantly delayed by shortages.

Yes, Operation Pike would have led to some degree of warfare between them - but, really, very little. About all it does is deprive the Germans of a massive frontline. Nor would an alliance happen - at most there is an arrangement made between the two.

The resources the Brits and their allies save by not sending supplies to the Soviets - and the extra ones the Americans would send to them for much the same reason - would more than make up for things.

Basically, the Brits get more staying power, but an invasion of the continent becomes far more difficult.

And, if you're thinking they would, the Soviets wouldn't commit any troops to German activities - and probably not anywhere else, either.

Lordganon (talk) 21:01, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

If the Germans have to invade Czechoslovakia and the war starts early, there is entirely no way that Operation Pike gets carried out. The Soviets would have been at war with the Germans. Lordganon (talk) 22:26, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Dean Map Game Note
could you do a Allied-Bulgarain Algorithm please, Italy has 103,000 troops and 98 tanks as well as 135 bombers and fighters. Proud Leader of the Althistory Revolution (User talk:DeanSims)  23:40, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

can u have both the Grec and Bulgarian Wars posted at the same time, it seems I take about 8% of eac country, so could you post both algorithms please, cuz Im realy happy. Proud Leader of the Althistory Revolution (User talk:DeanSims)  23:48, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

TURKEY, HUNGARY, AND YUGOSLAVIA

AvA Reloaded
They seem fine, but unless I've missed something (I'm not an algorithm mod), some of these numbers aren't being added up correctly. As for the pixel counter, is the program online or downloadable? ChrisL123 (talk) 00:32, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Algorithm Revision
I wouldn't revise alot. I would suggest to return to the old chance system, since the new one I feel is more meant for PMII then for Axis vs Allies. Enclavehunter (talk) 23:55, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

As I said, that my opinion. Enclavehunter (talk) 00:00, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hafsid pixels
Hey Pita, don't mean to bother you, but I tried using ImageJ and I virtually have no clue how it or the pixel-counter works. Could you possibly find out how many pixels Hafsid Tunisia has on the PMII map, so I can figure out how much territorial possession the Papal States can get? Thanks! ChrisL123 (talk) 00:00, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Axis vs Allies reloaded Sino-Japanese War
i need to algorithems for the northern front out of manchuria and another for the southern with Siamese and Japanese forces fighting against China. Nkbeeching

we will be leaving it as a joint occupation your welcome in if you like. after the war we will take a few coastal cities each and turn the rest of the counquered territories into a series of puppet states like manchuria under E.A.T.S.P. influence, also forever breaking china's place as the major asian power.

Um Indochina is japanese it was purchased from France and i turned it into a puppet state while retaining Tonkin and Southern China is under joint Siamese-Japanese Occupation read previous turns. Nkbeeching

Yes, I am, but I have way too much homework. Also, can you give America a provocation? I'm itching to join the war! Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 01:44, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

PM II
I'm have other issues on my plate (Ainu and Japanese Pirates/Ryūkyū Kingdom) and plus, Lady Satori Komeiji (aka Japanese Government) wasn't planning on interfering anyway. No need to worry. :] -Kogasa 2012年9月29日 22:53:26 (JST)

Soviet Axis
It looks good from what I can see, I'm now WWII expert so I can't comment on the plausibility, but the quality is fairly good. Like every other timeline, the more content the merrier! :) LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:49, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

No way they postpone it.

Pita, at best invading Czechoslovakia would take far longer than that.

In Fall Grun, for instance, where there is no support from the west, and the Czechs do get ganged up on somewhat, the conquest takes five and a half months. Without those two factors? Like a year, at best.

Lordganon (talk) 22:54, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, conflict was inevitable. With the people in power that were in power, it was just a question of when. Nor would killing off either Hitler or Stalin change that - both their flunkies and deputies would have done it at some point too.

If you go with a failed Munich Agreement, the timeline name depends on exactly what reason they have to not go through with it.

Lordganon (talk) 23:09, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Either the French President or the British PM grow a backbone, or Hitler for some reason does something stupid. Lordganon (talk) 23:23, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Pita, it needs to be either the French President of the British PM. Not both. Either Chamberlain decides against appeasement, or the French President decides to not "follow his lead" like otl - and there needs to be a reason for either to do it.

Nothing to do with "Green" in the title. Or "Munich Agreement" - we already have timelines around here with similar names.

As I said, the "reason" should be the name.

Lordganon (talk) 23:00, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

That'd be a start - but how would he get it, and why would he listen to it? Lordganon (talk) 22:26, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

...Speer was only an architect for the Nazi Party until 1942. No assistant of his would have that kind of info, especially that early on.

Saying that the Brits randomly got such an agent is at best gaming, anyways. Would also change events far in advance of Munich, too.

Have a look into those who resisted Hitler later on. May well be that one of them suffered, or almost suffered, a major reversal around 1938 because of Hitler. I know that foreign minister Konstantin von Neurath, retained under the Nazis until early 1938, for instance, would be one such person. I\m sure that there is more.

Lordganon (talk) 20:53, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Pita, no German officer is going to do that. They would not spy like that. And the 1932 bit, again, changes events greatly well in advance of Munich.

The being said, Oster may not be a bad route. Apparently, he was part of a group opposed to the Nazis fairly early on, in the months before Munich. Emissaries for the group actually secretly went to the Brits not long before Munich and urged them to stand up to Hitler. However, they do not seem to have had any reason for the Brits to do this.

Give them something for the purpose. They, being military intelligence, would have access to documents that may be enough.

Lordganon (talk) 21:17, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Figured as much. Just, as I said, the way you present it is not at all realistic. Lordganon (talk) 22:24, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Virtually the same problems, Pita. No German officer would be a spy like that, the 1932 bit changes history far more than you want and negates anything after it, and the thing with his daughter is even more out there.

Add to that that he would, in fact, not need to give false info, accidental or otherwise. The real info would be more than enough.

And, he would not be directly involved at all, either. Just have him send copies of documents with the emissaries. That gives you what you wish, and is plausible.

Lordganon (talk) 05:16, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

WTF Pita?
What the hell did I do to deserve this? Are you still made about how I stole your colonial empire out from under you? That still doesn't justify trying to staight-up destroy my nation, as all I did was steal a few colonies.

Yank 16:41, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ok but im not in a war with them. Nkbeeching

Just to let you know that I'd like to keep the ATL version of Vladivostok if possible. It's my main pacific port.

Yank 21:57, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I've just been distract is all. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 20:02, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

OK and OK. Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 23:27, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
ill need help with making the maps for the timeline. would you be willing to give me a hand?

ill send you rough sketches of the borders and you do what you can, again only if you want if not no worries. my hands are tied with work so i cant really learn the stuff.Nkbeeching

Blog
Did LG seem a little... overbearing to you? I felt like he was yelling at us. CourageousLife (talk) 01:36, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Stubs
Needs to have less info that the ones you're attaching them to. That's about the size of it. Lordganon (talk) 21:04, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

A Soviet Axis
For the events that preceded, the Second World War of your TL looks pretty good. Some things to consider: Those are the main points of critique I could find in the limited time I have to spend online. I hope they are of some use. --XterrorX (talk) 18:13, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Under the subtitle Increasing Soviet-German Friendship, you have the Germans and Soviets developing further cooperation. Hitler gains much needed resources from this deal, but would he really give away his technological edge to the untermenschen? And why does Stalin think that having most of the European continent end up under fascist domination is a fair trade-off? Unless they were planning to turn on each other once the war is over, perhaps...
 * Under the subtitle Japan, you have the Japanese wondering what course to take next. Wouldn't the most logical decision be to join the Axis any way, now that they are already at war with the Allies? Not only could they gain urgently needed resources, but they would also secure their border with the Soviet Union, who must be breathing down their neck in China by now. Instead you have them sitting around like dummies until the Soviets actually do that which they feared the most.
 * Under the subtitle The US joins the War, you have the Soviets pushing into Mongolia. Why would they, when the Mongolian People's Republic is already firmly under their control? And why would they attack China? The Chinese Nationalists under Chiang Kai-shek and the Communists under Mao Zedong were friendly towards the Soviets. Lastly, why is President Roosevelt, a pro-war figure in OTL, so determined to stay out of the war when U.S. convoys are so blatantly under attack, but folds when hundreds die in an attack on an ocean liner?
 * Under the subtitle Soviet Involvement, why can't the Soviets beat the outdated Imperial Japanese Army? Both have great numbers, but going by your TL, the Soviets should have gained superior technology and tactics from the Germans.
 * Under the subtitle The Europe Situation, you say that the Soviets have captured large swaths of the Balkans and even Greece. I don't think that Mussolini likes the fact that the communists are encroaching into his envisioned imperium or mare nostrum, while both he and Hitler would never allow the Soviets to gain naval access to the Mediterranean Sea. The British Royal Navy is enough of a pain in the ass in that area already.
 * Lastly, I noticed that the last sentence of the unfinished Timeline read that the Soviets bombed Kaliningrad in 1938. However, in those days the city was still known as Königsberg, the capital of German East Prussia.
 * Oh yeah, normally when the Axis or Comintern invent the atomic bomb around the same time the Americans do I call ASB, but I'm not sure whether the Germans and Soviets together could create one. Perhaps someone else could clarify this? --XterrorX (talk) 18:22, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, my bad. I take it you and LG ironed out all mistakes in the timeline you meant, because that one looks perfectly plausible to me now, given the pre-war events. --XterrorX (talk) 20:46, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Pita, the part about a "daughter" needs to go. As does the part about the affair.

Quite frankly, if he gets on the general staff, none of the remainder would happen.

Lordganon (talk) 07:12, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Oster was for a long time a senior member of German military intelligence, called "Abwehr," including several years as the deputy commander. Being in that organization, he'd have access.

You're about a year off of his daughter's age - but, either way, the Osters lived in a very secure - i.e. military - part of Berlin.

Better PoD. However, it was not his commanding officer's wife.

Nor would he have randomly started sending documents like that to anyone.

Only a single group of emissaries was sent, and more would have been doubtful. And he was definitely not the one who sent them, either.

The only thing you need, Pita, is to have him send some real intel with the emissaries. That way, rather than the emissaries attempting to urge the British to stand firm against Hitler over the Sudeten crisis their words alone, they actually have intel that shows he is largely bluffing.

That fact alone would give either the French or Brits a backbone. That's all you need.

Basically, drop the line about the French President.

As for Eo~, there are no exceptions.

Lordganon (talk) 07:05, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Dammit, that's what I was going to do (nominate him for TSPTF).

I thought it was only 6 months?

The Royal Guns (talk) 19:41, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that is true. But it also has not been even six months.

Oster did not send the emissary - a group he was involved with did. And it wouldn't be just info about weapon stockpiles. It'd have been about supplies in general. Oster giving them to the emissary, who would then give them to the British government, and they'd use them in their decision-making.

It'd be more calling his bluff than standing up to him - and Hitler not having the sense to stop.

Lordganon (talk) 02:40, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

The Brits aren't actually going to know that it was Oster that added the info. Lordganon (talk) 23:00, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

No "prolonged" about it - it'd have been just not to ready to invade, period. Much better overall, however.

But still one problem - Oster was not a Nazi.

Lordganon (talk) 14:08, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

How about "Zossen Conspiracy" - that's where the Army High Command was located, and as a name that kind of gets to the point.

Before I forget - all of this would go down before Munich was even agreed to. The conference may not actually even happen.

Lordganon (talk) 23:45, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Obviously. Lordganon (talk) 04:59, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Weird America
The POD for this TL is

1)Napoleon dies during the retreat from Moscow

2)An armistice is signed between France and it's enemies

3) This allows Britain to send many additional battle-hardened troops across the Atlantic thus helping to tip the war in Britain's favour

Verence71 (talk) 18:55, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Undoutedly, which is why I also started a companion TL based on how Napoleon's early death would affect things in Europe

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/New_Old_World

I accept that it hasn't gone into that much detail yet but I will have to do some more work on it one day

Verence71 (talk) 19:35, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Algorithims
Hey Pita, I could really use some help in determining who gets what amount of land. I still have no idea how to figure out that equation. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 17:38, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Map Game Wiki
I've been thinking about this idea for a long time.

Basically, it would have four advantages:

A) Map Games would not be restricted to althistory.

B) The reputation of this wiki wouldn't be so downgraded by them a-holes on AH.com.

C) It would have the effect of less clutter on this wiki.

D) It could have rules specifically designed for Map Games, including rules about defunct ones, etc.

What do you think?

The Royal Guns (talk) 19:51, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely true. But this is why I've been sending out messages to lots of people- because it is a good idea. If you could get even half of the map gamers on this wiki over there, that's nearly 40 people, enough for any wiki. A lot of them go around for 10 people. That wiki had 3. And one of them made just a single edit. Basically, if I can get enough people on the idea...

The Royal Guns (talk) 23:09, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Pita! As you can see, I have rejoined Avare, although now as India, lol. But I am really here to ask you for an alliance in PMII. I would like the two great nations of Hindustan and Korea to walk side by side. In return, I will be able to help you in your wars. I have asked China too, but I am not sure about Manchuria. So if you say yes, it would be great. :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:08, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

YUS!!! While I'm at it, could I ask about the condition of India in Avare? I am not too sure what has happened so far and with a run-down, I will be able to make an imperialistic ndia (it is being aided by Japan, so something will have to rub off them). :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:12, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks man! :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:23, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Arabian Failure Mapgame
i don't know if you are interest but would you like to join this map game i've made Arabian Failure (Map Game) Sine dei gloriem (talk) 04:09, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

I have nothing against you Pita, really, i respect you. But i cannot rejoin AvARe. Maybe i'm not totally acquainted with the path of that particular althistory in that game, but there is no way Turkey could be doing those things. First, they're a secular nation(with huge Muslim population) therefore they would rather be a colony than become communist or align themselves with the Second World. Next, how can they possibly afford such a large-scale regional war against everyone bordering them? A reconquest of Greece when they granted them unconditional independence in 1830 as their predecessor state the Ottoman Empire? I swear he'll kill your game by provoking someone to nuke them, dont let this happen. People say he's changed but he really hasnt. Every map game he's played, no matter what nation be it Ethiopia the Zulus, Prussia, Turkey, or the Ashanti he tries to unreasonably expand and is convinced no one can stop him. He's even killed a few games because of it. I would understand if it was 1600 and the Turks are trying to conquer the Middle East but it is 1957! The Age of Imperialism is OVER. Call me a dictator, but i rule my map games with an iron fist. As soon as i see implausibility, i strike it out no problem. That's why my map game lasted more than 100 years. The only reason it died was because i left(yet i am actively trying to revive it). Excuse the rant, Pita. But i had a lot to say about the guy and i could go on but i dont want this to sound like im trying to force you into doing something. Rule as you see fit, but heed my warning.AP (talk) 03:04, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

AVAre
America and Turkey are in league to use mod events to hijack the Middle East so they can split it between them selves. . The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:47, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know where he got that. America has no business in the middle east. America hates Turkey. America hates teh turmoil in the Middle East. Why would America want to "hijack" and split the area with the hated Turks? All I did was upload a correct map and ask him to add the Azeri and Kurd states. He thought I was trying to prevent the birth of the states by removing them form the map. Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 21:52, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Pita, I annexed East Arabia a few years ago in AVAR, and conquered most of Iraq, yet it is not shown on the map. Also, Scraw crossed out my algorithim for my invasion of Egypt citing it as implausible, but not stating exactly why. I could use some help there. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 14:49, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I did annex East Arabia too (1950s RNG), but as for Egypt, I thought that was why we had the algorithim. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 19:48, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Pita. I offer to be an unbiased map maker/ algorithm person on Avare, i feel like being a part of the game without playing it.AP (talk) 01:11, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Pita, before you disappear, how would I develop Turkey into a superpower? I developed nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers over the last 30 years, and control a considerable amout of a land. Additionally, Turkey has a large industrial base and plenty of manpower (the population should be somewhere around 150+ million if not more). Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, and Iraq to some degree, where all well developed nations in real life, and had large economies as well, and I control most of the oil in the region (around the Persian Gulf). How do I get the others to recognize Turkey as an equal and not a third world nation (which some of their comments indicate they believe). Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 22:45, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the help. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:03, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Hey I would love to play the Axis Vs Allies: Revolutions (Map Game) But I am very confused on how to join.. If you would care to explain how to join and how the system works... I would like to be Romania.. Thanks in advanced!

Dustin2557 (talk) 14:52, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the response.. So I just post that Im the ruler now on the events list? I know Im a vassal that is fine for now... Dustin2557 (talk) 13:20, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Hey man! Well, as you can see, the Cahpilate is planning another war against Hindustan, and Ethiopia and I would like you to be there for us. I have messaged China and Japan for help as well. I have also contacted Russian nations as well as the HRE for help. I hope you agree to be there, and if China agrees too, it could change everything. I must remind you, however, that without Hindustan, the Cahpilate would not hesitate to expand eastward and threaten your claims for Terra Australis and might even go to war with you! So please help us in our upcoming war. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:04, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

No we won't, the Caliphate will never expand that far. Plus Terra Australis isn't going to be discovered for a while either. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:20, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Axis vs Allies: Revolutions (Map Game)
Hello there, I would like to join the Axis vs Allies: Revolutions (Map Game), can you please tell me how I do that and how you play the game exactly? If I can join, I'd like to play as Canada

Where and how?
Where exactly do I add my name to the list of nations and I have never played a map-game before, so how do I play? Axis Vs Allies looks interesting and I;d love to play but the rules, they escape me

Vexacus (talk) 20:42, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Where and how?
Where exactly do I add my name to the list of nations and I have never played a map-game before, so how do I play? Axis Vs Allies looks interesting and I;d love to play but the rules, they escape me

Vexacus (talk) 20:44, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

A Soviet Axis (Or whatever it's called now.)
I'll help...? The Royal Guns (talk) 13:16, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Great! How can I do so?? The Royal Guns (talk) 20:15, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

So... umm... Germany's screwed. America in the War? If not, the partition will probably not occur, leading to Germany probably being on the Soviet side, leading to increased Soviet control over Europe, leading to the death of capitalist pigs everywhere =D? The Royal Guns (talk) 15:00, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Apocalypse:2012
Basically I wish to make a post-nuclear war world with the nuclear war occurring on 21/22 December 2012. Would you be interested in finding sites in Korea and maybe around DC that would be likely to have been hit by Russia if nuclear war occurred? And then you would also be in charge of organizing the states that emerge there after the war. Scandinator (talk) 23:57, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Hello! Nice page and I like your articles :3AltHistoryGeek (talk) 00:35, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

JApan vs. Korea ?
what are you trying to do Pita we will both get wiped out of the game while i am stronger then you, korean proximity to japan is a fatal blow to me, but you will be even more destroyed then i will, while it may take me years to rebuild you will be wiped out of the game period, why not simply make the conflict between us a series of proxy wars in china instead of outright fighting each other to the death. Nkbeeching

Pita, why is it that Scraw and AP are determined to acknowledge that I am a superpower? Even though I spent time working on my industry, economy, and relations with the non-Turkish population, they say my military sucks, everybody hates me, and my infastructure is poorly developed despite the progress I made over the last 45 years. What do I need to do to silence the opposition? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 23:19, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Hello! I enjoy reading your articles. :]AltHistoryGeek (talk) 00:52, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Korea Collapse
Just letting you know, the mods collapsed Korea in PMII. CourageousLife (talk) 01:18, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Zossen Conspiracy
Well, you could have some argument between America and UK/France; the you've got a three way cold war of America vs. UK/France vs. USSR, vs (possibly) a stronger NA pact, led by India and China a less socialist structure (though still socialist leaning). This could be caused by a draw in the Chinese civil war, leading to a peace in which Mao's radicals are expelled to the USSR, Chinag's dictatorship is dismantled, to form a society like India was OTL- only, of course, stronger.

The argument between UK/France and the US could be caused by differences over the split of Germany- as a result, Berlin is entiely Soviet, but Germany is divided up into three segments- the Warsaw Pact East Germany, the London Pact (possible name?) West Germany, the US North Germany (the smallest). East Germany is half of of Germany, UK/France is another third, US gets a sixth, later ceded to London Pact in some form of reunion thing, with the US joining the London Pact around 1975-80.

Possible ramifications; Cold war continues on today; Increased American irrevelence (rather than the opposite, like OTL); NA pact gets nukes sooner; as a result, Pakistan becomes either part of India (without a nuclear deterrent) or a vassal state; etc.

The Royal Guns (talk) 20:27, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

AVArevalutuions
Zirear had a tribal thingy and a breakaway province in 1963 [].

AVAre
Jean-Bédel Bokassa gets kicked out of the CAR in my next post and will be replaced by David Dacko. Thanks for helping with the mod-posted revolution. The CAR will be free as we liked it to be so, with in a year. Zaier is right, but only in Northern Angola and Cabindia  Read this Wikipeadia link on Angolan tribes []. :-)! 90.244.86.69 21:57, December 18, 2012 (UTC) R. Beal.

Why has French west Africa not broken up into Mali, Niger, Maruitania, ect as in OTL? We need a mod event to do this, they would fall apart on Islam/Christian and Tureg/Bantu lines.90.244.86.69 22:45, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Pita, your followers AP and Scraw have been giving my nation the foreign chokehold. They won't allow me to invade any nation, and have been coming up with silly uneducated excuses (i.e. Angola and Zaire aren't culturally or lingustically related dispite the tons of evidance I and the CAR player keep giving them). Its becoming intolerable. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 22:36, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place newest add ons
id like your opinion on the recent additions to the western european timeline. Nk

A2012
Are you still in? If so, could we all have a meeting on the Talkpage, to get the timeline going? The apocalypse has occurred! The Royal Guns (talk) 20:55, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Originally I wanted to have more but then I thought that North Korea would rather have South Korea's infrastructure intact rathed than irradiated so the majority of North Korea's missiles fan out to other locations but are highly prone to failure. Scandinator (talk) 23:42, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

AVA revolutions.
Looks pretty inactive now and should be terminated. AVA reborn is good. I like plausibility points and the anti-nation targeting/godmodery clause.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:08, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

It's OK, I see your point.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:17, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Axis vs Allies: Reborn (Map Game)
Several nations want a mod to do a Random.Org test on treatys with grey states.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:27, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Aussies calling for RNG.
The British player has been away for a long time, ,has done little, and did not pay any attention to Malaya, Brunei, Vanuatu, the Solomon islands, Singapore, North Borneo, Burma and Sabah. Well, to forestall chaos in the empire’s eastern holdings, Australia asks the governors to switch allegiance to better colonial rule by Australia (if tiny Vanuatu dose not, we can steam roller it. Australia has over the years inserted troops in all the listed places, except Burma). (RNG for each one please).

A Fresh Start
Hey would you like to join my new map game?

*Brest-Litvosk
Yeah, I like the idea. Will the "splitting up Eastern Europe" plan go according to OTL or would you like a different division?

Metagamers will be hung, drawn and quartered, btw. Fed (talk) 21:31, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Axis Europe for the Win!
Hey Pita, offer a la Sweden here. As the Parliament leans further and further to the Socialist side, I plan on offering to join the Axis soon. So, if you will kindly let me in, I will kindly give you my plans for a win in the war. Here's how it works: Fed and I turn back on Finland and invade it. Then we sign Japan up and support them. The Soviets take their influential parts of China and the Japs take the rest. Maybe me and you pull Britains and take Hong Kong or something. Then all of us divide the Baltics, etc etc. We win yay joy happy day. Sound good?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 19:43, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Great. Here's a hypothetical map.



Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:39, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Nuke list:

Sweden: Pick two.
 * Hamburg*
 * Prague*
 * Munich

Germany: Take two or three.
 * Oslo*
 * somewhere in the Baltics
 * Helsinki*
 * Gothenburg*

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:16, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

You chose Helsinki, but you want me to give Finland independence?

Also, nuke Denmark whenever you want. I cannot stop you on that account.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:32, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Australia will make peace with Germany if it agrees to a treaty that is akin to the OTL Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany, but Germany will remain united it its ATL borders and have double the number of ATL troops as in OTL’s troop listing.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:44, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Archive?
How does one archive their talk page?Andr3w777 (talk) 01:01, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
Good lad! I hoped you would take the advantage of my assassination of Himmler and company. Now the Nazis are in German jails and the racists are now out of it all, Australia has no need to fight Germany. We will end our part in the war and retreat to Ceylon next turn.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:54, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

ethiopia left the axis, and i can nuke you too and DITO will invade the allyless Germany. (DeanSims: Talk) 23:05, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

and all of Japns, Australias, the Allies, and Italys army versus Germanys. HA (DeanSims: Talk) 23:08, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Australia and The Dutch Government in Exile in the Dutch East Indies pledged to respect the neutrality of Ethiopia after it left the axis and will help neither side. The client West Indonesia, Banda Aceh, Timor, North Sulawesi (that is OTL E. Timor and most of Indonesia) are becoming agitated by the war since they are left-wing republicans who don’t like emperors and so send some weapons, kit, mercenaries and volunteer troops, whilst Australia tells them to calm down and prepossess a peace summit. The River Nile-2 (talk) 23:15, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Yugoslavia
Germany could set up a  client state like WW2 Croatia to help undermine Italy's grip and Yugoslavia's central government's control. The River Nile-2 (talk) 23:38, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Pita, I need nukes. Can you hook me up? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 00:28, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

DITO offers pre-war terms and aid in rebuilding Germany from the nukes in return for DITO withdrawl from Ethiopia. (DeanSims: Talk) 01:54, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Denmark (AvARb)
Dear Germany,

You are not invading Italy, or Berlin is nuked. Either Denmark, or Italy, or Japan, or Sweden will do that.

Yours sincerely, By the Grace of God, His Majesty King Christian X of Denmark, the Wends and the Goths, Duke of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Lauenburg and Oldenburg.

Regards, Laptop Zombie 11:30, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

I have just created Nuclear Powers (Axis vs Allies: Reborn Map Game). Please help me fill that. You're a mod, anyway. Regards, Laptop Zombie 12:53, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

pita, i mean no disrespect or biasness torwards you in AvA Reborn, I offer you a deal, I will give half of Ethiopia to you as a puppet state clear and free if you and Italy sign a peace deal with pre-war borders, thats better thane ever since I repulsed your invasion, and honestly I kind of want an Italian-German allaince. (DeanSims: Talk) 20:24, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

i repulsed your attack, and you attacked me after Ethiopia abandoned your allaince for no reason since Ethiopia wasnt your ally. And liberation is a joke, look at your empire and puppets, should i "Liberate" them? I want none of your land or vassals as my own, can we sign a non-agression pact at least, I can still give you parts of Ethiopia. (DeanSims: Talk) 20:41, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Italy asks what it will take to heal our relations. (DeanSims: Talk) 19:01, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

Secret United States Messagge
Hey Pita. I was wondering if Germany would be interested in forming an alliance to combat Swedish influence in Europe? Enclavehunter (talk) 19:53, February 2, 2013 (UTC)