Talk:Principia Moderni IV (Map Game)

Archives: to 10/27/16 ● to 12/22/16 ● to 5/15/17 =Algorithms=

Algorithms—the hard part of map games. This is where all of them are placed. It is mandatory to follow all the rules and strictly follow the procedure, rules, and computation of an algorithm, both of which can be seen here. You can see every algorithm below.

It's vital that you use exactly this format when writing or computing an algorithm, as it helps organization tremendously.

Formatting
Name of War (Years of War) [Use Heading 2]

Front Name [Only use this if there is more front in the war] [Heading 3]


 * Year
 * Pre-War Stage
 * Side I Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Population:
 * War Exhaustion:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Government:
 * Side II Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Population:
 * War Exhaustion:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Government:
 * Battle Stage
 * (Battle or Siege Name)
 * Side I Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Army/Navy Size:
 * Location:
 * Great General:
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition:
 * Side II Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Army/Navy Size:
 * Location:
 * Great General:
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Side I Name
 * Cities Occupied:
 * Result:
 * Side I Name
 * Cities Occupied:
 * Result:
 * Overall Result:

Discussion [Heading 3]

Colonail Front 1701

 * Siege of Namibe (1701)
 * Pre-war stage
 * Iberia and Ndongo: 70.6
 * Population: +4.6 (750,000 from Iberia + ~400,000 from Ndongo = 1,150,000)
 * Government: +6
 * Economy: +30
 * Technology: +30
 * France: 70.6
 * Population: +3.6 (900,000 after penalties)
 * Government: +7
 * Economy: +30
 * Technology: +30

Result: 104% to France Casualties: low
 * Battle Stage (1701)
 * France: 11.5
 * Army size: 1.5 (5,000)
 * Navy size: +15 (30)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -5
 * Iberia: -2.7
 * Army size: +0.3 (1,000)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -3

Result: 211% to France Casualties: 650 and 7 ships to France, 100 and 4 ships to Iberia
 * Battle Stage (1701)
 * France: 26.5
 * Army size: 1.5 (5,000)
 * Navy size: +30 (60)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -5
 * Iberia: 19.8
 * Army size: +0.3 (1,000)
 * Navy size: +22.5 (45)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -3

Result: 114% to Iberia Casualties: 1087 and 13 ships to France, 395 and 3 ships to Iberia
 * Battle Stage (1701)
 * France: 17.85
 * Army size: +1.3 (4,350)
 * Navy size: +26.5 (53)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -4
 * Iberia: 30.37
 * Army size: +2.37 (7,900)
 * Navy size: +33 (66)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -5

Result: 221% to Iberia (enough to break the siege) Casualties: 978 and 21 ships to France, 750 and 6 ships to Iberia
 * Battle Stage (1702)
 * France: 23.97
 * Army size: +0.97 (3,263)
 * Navy size: +35 (70)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -4
 * Iberia: 30.75
 * Army size: +2.25 (7,505)
 * Navy size: +31.5 (63)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -3

Result: 340% victory for Iberia Casualties: 1028 and 22 ships to France, 1013 and 10 ships to Iberia
 * Battle Stage (1702)
 * France: 17.38
 * Army size: +0.68 (2,285)
 * Navy size: +24.5 (49)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -2
 * Iberia: 34.02
 * Army size: +2.02 (6,755)
 * Navy size: +36 (72)
 * Location: 0
 * Blunder: -4

Discussion
This ignores the troops and ships I sent to relieve Namibe. You also need a minimum of Battle Tier 2 (300-500%) to win a siege. General534 (talk) 01:58, June 11, 2017 (UTC)

I was there first, you have to fight my troops to get through them to relive namibe.

I have sent an army to contest the siege and fight your army which is besieging the fort. Because my army is relieving the defending garrison, they are treated as the defenders. You cannot choose to selectively fight the garrison and not the reinforcements, and then claim that I have to besiege the fort now. By your logic, I could have done that with Recife and Luanda and captured them both within a year because I posted first. General534 (talk) 04:27, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

I checked with Feud and he said you wouldn't be able to get through all three siege stages before reinforcements arrive. I've edited your algo to reflect this. General534 (talk) 06:05, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

You worked out the results on that algo wrong definitely. Person67 (talk) 15:27, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

Added correct casualties and siege penalties, proving that France doesn't win the 1702 battle as assumed. General534 (talk) 22:19, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

Corrected

No, you are besieging a fort with less troops than the defenders, so you get -25% penalty to score and 20% extra casualties. Read the rules and stop "correcting" my corrections. This and putting your number of ships at 73 instead of 70 and ignoring casualties for France but not Iberia makes it seem like you are blatantly twisting the numbers to your advantage and hoping no one notices. You have played this game for months; you should know how algos work. General534 (talk) 23:58, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Swahili-Rowzi War

 * Pre-War Stage
 * Swahili(Attacking)
 * Result:73.453
 * Population: 9,113,000=36.452
 * Government:Absolute Monarchy+7
 * Technology:Tier 3+10
 * Economy:Tier 3+20
 * Rowzi(Defending)
 * Result:21
 * Population: 1,000,000=4
 * Government:Feudal Monarchy+5
 * Technology:Tier 2 +7
 * Economy:Tier 1 +5

1704

 * Battle Stage
 * Disaster of Mazabuka
 * Results
 * Swahili loses 40,000 men and retreats to Eastern Zimbabwe.

Eastern Zimbabwe Front

 * Defense of Manyika
 * Rowzi(Attacking): 46.24666
 * Army Size:15,000 unproffesional soldiers, 2,000 professional soldiers:5.24666
 * Navy Size: N/A
 * Location: Hostile Mountains -3
 * Great General:45
 * Blunder:-1
 * Swahili(Defending):11.5
 * Army Size:20,000 unproffesional soldiers, 5,000 professional soldiers (Royal Guards): 7.5
 * Navy Size: N/A
 * Location: Friendly Mountains: +7
 * Great General:0
 * Blunder:-3
 * Results
 * Swahili=11.5+73.453=84.953
 * Rowzi=46.24666+21=67.24666
 * 126%, Tier 0 Victory
 * 2.5% casuality and 20000*(15000/17000)*0.025+20000*(2000/17000)*0.025*1.3+5000*(15000/17000)*0.025*0.5+5000*(2000/17000)*0.025=588 Swahili men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.
 * 5% of casualities for Rowzi due to less than 25,000 men.
 * 17000*0.05=850 Rowzi men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.
 * Rowzi offensive repulsed

Results Whole War
Ends with the Swahili loss of Zimbabwe from mod events. Fallacyman (talk)

Siege of Madhya
Madhya is fully crushed throughout the conflict and surrenders losing most of its forces. The region is annexed by The Bengal Empire.
 * Pre-War Stage
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 95
 * Population: 50
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 20
 * Technology:20
 * Madhya
 * Result: 74
 * Population: 48
 * Government: +6
 * Economy:  10
 * Technology: 10
 * Battle Stage
 * Attack on East Madhya
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 84
 * Army/Navy Size: 37
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: 45
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Madhya
 * Result: 11
 * Army/Navy Size: 9
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Final Stage:
 * Bengal Empire
 * Total Score: 179
 * Madhya
 * Total Score: 85
 * Overall Result: 475%
 * Battle Stage
 * Attack on Central Madhya
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 82
 * Army/Navy Size: 35
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: 45
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Madhya
 * Result: 9
 * Army/Navy Size: 7
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Final Stage:
 * Bengal Empire
 * Total Score: 177
 * Madhya
 * Total Score: 83
 * Overall Result: 475%+469%= 944%
 * Attack on Central Madhya
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 82
 * Army/Navy Size: 35
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: 45
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Madhya
 * Result: 0
 * Army/Navy Size: 3
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Morale: -5
 * Final Stage:
 * Bengal Empire
 * Total Score: 175
 * Madhya
 * Total Score: 74
 * Overall Result: 475%+469%=944%+422%=1366%

1711
Uttar is fully crushed throughout the conflict and surrenders losing most of its forces. The region is annexed by The Bengal Empire after occupation.
 * Pre-War Stage
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 95
 * Population: 50
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 20
 * Technology:20
 * Uttar
 * Result: 76
 * Population: 50
 * Government: +6
 * Economy:  10
 * Technology: 10
 * Battle Stage
 * Attack on South Uttar
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 84
 * Army/Navy Size: 60
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: 45
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Uttar
 * Result: 13
 * Army/Navy Size: 11
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Final Stage:
 * Bengal Empire
 * Total Score: 212
 * Madhya
 * Total Score:
 * Overall Result: 420%
 * Battle Stage
 * Attack on Central Uttar
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 105
 * Army/Navy Size: 58
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: 45
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Uttar
 * Result: 11
 * Army/Navy Size: 9
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Final Stage:
 * Bengal Empire
 * Total Score: 200
 * Uttar
 * Total Score: 87
 * Overall Result: 420%+435%= 855%
 * Attack on Northern Uttar
 * Bengal Empire
 * Result: 103
 * Army/Navy Size: 33
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: 45
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Uttar
 * Result: 9
 * Army/Navy Size: 7
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition: N/A
 * Final Stage:
 * Bengal Empire
 * Total Score: 198
 * Uttar
 * Total Score: 85
 * Overall Result: 420%+435%=855%+430%=1285%

Discussion
There is a lot wrong with this algo. First of all, there is no country called "Madhya", but assuming there was, with a population of 48 (12,000,000) and a feudal government it could field a max of 120,000 troops and Uttar could field even more. Troop numbers are severely underestimated for the enemy. Again you make vague attacks on "Eastern Madhya" and "Central Madhya" without besieging any cities; your algo for Uttar has the same problem. The percentage scores are inflated too (198 > 85 = 233%, not 430%). Finally, every algo has the same location modifier: "Near a populated border: +2", when the first algo is supposedly a siege and the others are in the interior of a country. The whole thing is confusing because you don't seem to define exactly where the battles take place anywhere in the algo.

Besides the algo itself, "Madhya" and "Uttar" don't exist as countries. If they correspond to present day Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh, no way you can conquer 4+ nations at once (3 of which don't border you) with your dodgy generalizing regions and bad algos.

Make a proper algo, be specific about what nation you are invading, where you are attacking, troop numbers and location modifiers. General534 (talk) 17:47, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

Pre-War Stage

 * Swahili
 * Result: 80.892
 * Population: 33.892 (8,473,000)
 * Government:Absolute Monarchy+7
 * Economy: Tier 4+20
 * Technology: Tier 4 +20
 * Imerina
 * Result: 25
 * Population: 6 (1500000)
 * Government: Feudal Monarchy +5
 * Economy: Tier 2+7
 * Technology: Tier 2 +7

Battle of Ihosy

 * Swahili
 * Result: 11
 * Army/Navy Size: 12 (40,000 professional soldiers)
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder: -3
 * Attrition:
 * Imerina
 * Result: 1.375
 * Army/Navy Size: 3.375  (11250 Unprofessional soldiers)
 * Location: 2
 * Great General: N/A
 * Blunder: -4
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Swahili: 11+80.892=91.892
 * Imerina:1.375+25=26.375
 * 91.892/26.375=348.40568720379144%, 348% victory, Battle Tier 2
 * 3% casuality and 40,000*0.03*0.5=600 Swahili men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.
 * 30% of casualities for  Imerina.
 * 11250  *0.3*1.4=4725  Imerina  men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.

1st Siege of Antananarivo

 * Swahili
 * Result: -0.18
 * Army/Navy Size: 11.82 (39,400 professional soldiers)
 * Location: -8
 * Great General:
 * Blunder: -4
 * Attrition:
 * Imerina
 * Result:11.9575
 * Army/Navy Size: 1.9575 (6525 Unprofessional soldiers)
 * Location: +12
 * Great General:
 * Blunder: -2
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Swahili:-0.18+80.892=80.712
 * Imerina: 11.9575+25=36.9575
 * 80.712/ 36.9575= 218.391395522%, 218% Victory, Tier 1 Victory
 * 6.5% casuality for Swahili
 * 39,400 *0.065*0.5=1281 Swahili men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.
 * 10% of casualities for  Imerina.
 * 6525   *0.1*1.4=914  Imerina  men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.

2nd Siege of Antananarivo

 * Swahili
 * Result: -0.5643
 * Army/Navy Size: 11.4357 (38,119 professional soldiers)
 * Location: -8
 * Great General:
 * Blunder: -4
 * Attrition:
 * Imerina
 * Result:11.6833
 * Army/Navy Size: 1.6833 (5611 Unprofessional soldiers)
 * Location: +12
 * Great General:
 * Blunder: -2
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Swahili:-0. 5643 +80.892=80.3277
 * Imerina:  11.6833 +25=36.6833
 * 80.3277/ 36.6833= 218.976209883%, 219% Victory, Tier 1 Victory
 * 6.5% casuality for Swahili
 * 38,119  *0.065*0.5=1239 Swahili men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.
 * 10% of casualities for  Imerina.
 * 5611 *0.1*1.4=786  Imerina  men lost on account of professional and unprofessional soldiers.

3rd Siege of Antananarivo

 * Swahili
 * Result: -0.936
 * Army/Navy Size: 11.064 (36,880 professional soldiers)
 * Location: -8
 * Great General:
 * Blunder: -4
 * Attrition:
 * Imerina
 * Result:11.4475
 * Army/Navy Size: 1.4475 (4825 Unprofessional soldiers)
 * Location: +12
 * Great General:
 * Blunder: -2
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Swahili:-0. 936 +80.892=79.956
 * Imerina:  11.4475 +25=36.4475
 * 79.956/ 36.4475= 219.373070855, 219% Victory, Tier 1 Victory
 * 218+219+219>500
 * Swahili forces capture Antananarivo. The entire Imerina garrison is wiped out.

Results
Imerina capitulates and is annexed by Swahili.Fallacyman (talk)

Arab-Akhlat War (1732)

 * Prewar Stage
 * Jaffarid Arabia: 105
 * Population: +50 (43,000,000)
 * Government: +5 ( Iqta )
 * Economy: +30 (Tier V)
 * Technology: +20 (Tier IV)
 * Akhlat: 22.2
 * Population: +3.2 (800,000)
 * Government: +7 (Absolute Monarchy)
 * Economy: +5 (Tier I)
 * Technology: +7 (Tier II)
 * Initial invasion of Akhlat (1732)
 * Jaffarid Arabia: +27
 * Army size: +30 (100,000)
 * Navy size: +0 not used
 * Location: -3
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: TBA
 * Akhlat: +18.4
 * Army size: +2.4 (8,000)
 * Navy size: +0 none
 * Location: +7
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: TBA
 * Result: Battle Tier II (325%), Retreat of Akhlatian forces and decisive Jaffarid victory allowing for push to Ahlat.
 * Casualties: 1500 to Jaffarid Arabia, 2400 to Akhlat


 * Siege of Ahlat (1732)
 * Jaffarid Arabia: +19.55
 * Army size: +29.55 (98500)
 * Location: -10
 * Blunder: TBA
 * Akhlat: 17.68
 * Army size: +1.68 (5600)
 * Location: +16
 * Blunder: TBA
 * Result: Battle Tier II (325% + 312% = 637%), Near-occupation of Ahlat. Remaining Akhlatian troops fall back.
 * Casualties: 3694 to Jaffarid Arabia, 1400 to Akhlat
 * Final Siege of Ahlat (1732)
 * Jaffarid Arabia: +18.44
 * Army size: +29.55 (94806)
 * Location: -10
 * Blunder: TBA
 * Akhlat: +17.26
 * Army size: +1.26 (4200)
 * Location: +16
 * Blunder: TBA
 * Result: Battle Tier II (325% + 312% + 312% = 949%), Crushing victory for Jaffarid Arabia and subsequent surrendering of Akhlat. Akhlat is annexed by the Jaffarid Sultanate.
 * Casualties: 3555 to Jaffarid Arabia, 2310 to Akhlat

Prewar Stage

 * Austria: 55
 * Population: 20
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 10
 * Technology: 20
 * Bohemia: 37.6
 * Population: 15.6
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 7
 * Technology: 10

Battle Stage

 * First Battle of Brno 1732
 * Austria: 17.35
 * Army size: 20.85
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Bohemia: 6.5
 * Army size: 2.5
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * Austria: 72.35
 * Bohemia: 44.1
 * Final Result: Battle Tier N/A  164% Brno remains under siege although their forces are weakened.

Battle Stage

 * Second Battle of Brno 1732
 * Austria: 17.5
 * Army size: 20
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Bohemia: 5.3
 * Army size: 1.3
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * Austria: 72.5
 * Bohemia: 42.9
 * Final Result: Battle Tier  168%+164%=332% Brno remains under siege although their forces are weakened.

Battle Stage

 * 3rd Battle of Brno and Pradubice plus Kartovy 1732
 * Austria: 16
 * Army size: 19.5
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Bohemia: 4.8
 * Army size: .8
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * Austria: 71
 * Bohemia: 42.4 
 * Final Result: Battle Tier III 168%+164%=332%+169%=501% Brno and other cities are finally captured by the Austrians.Troops that are caught are either killed or imprisoned.

Battle Stage

 * Austria: 18.5 + Pro troops 40%= 26.5
 * Army size: 28.5
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -10
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Bohemia: 21
 * Army size: 11
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: +10
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * 'Austria: 70.5 (21,250 casualties)
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 132 (3,000 casualties)
 * Final Result: Battle Tier N/A  187% Burgundo-Prussian Victory, Austria loses extra 20% casualties due to 1-1 siege ratio

Battle Stage

 * Second Battle of Prague 1733
 * Austria: 17.8 + Pro troops 40%= 24.8
 * Army size: 27.8
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -10
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Bohemia: 19
 * Army size: 9
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: +10
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * 'Austria: 79.8
 * Bohemia: 50.1
 * Final Result: Battle Tier II 153%+160%= 313% Prague remains under siege although their forces are weakened.

Battle Stage

 * Third Battle of Prague 1733
 * Austria: 16.8 + Pro troops 40%= 24
 * Army size: 26.8
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -10
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Bohemia: 14.8
 * Army size: 4.8
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: +10
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * 'Austria: 79
 * Bohemia: 49.6
 * Final Result: Battle Tier II 153%+161%= 313%+160%=473% Prague remains under siege although their forces are weakened.

Discussion
Fixed pre-war stage, as Bohemia is a part of Prussia, and has been for decades now. Will need re-calculating, will do later. I am that guy (talk) 03:50, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

Then why is it labeled as a separate state? Adolf Coffee (talk) 12:46, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

Because stuff hasn't been updated in years. I am that guy (talk) 13:04, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

Well, one of the mods said they have been separated so... yeah I am going back to what I had. Adolf Coffee (talk) 14:28, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

No, they haven't been separated, that's crazy. I am that guy (talk) 14:49, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

I am just going off other people's word and the game map Adolf Coffee (talk) 16:12, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

You didn't take into account that I put 60k troops at Prague this turn. The second and third stages are irrelevant at this point, but I will correct them later. I am that guy (talk) 04:10, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

Uh, as said in the latest note, it is invalid. Hopefully this situation will be resolved shortly and till then stop fucking harassing me about this crap. The more we complain about what went down, the worse the situation will get. Any way, the war is over. Deal with it until this is fully resolved by the moderation team. Adolf Coffee (talk) 15:10, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

It makes no sense to invalidate troops movements made two turns ago, especially when said movements themselves are not implausible considering both Prussia and Bohemia are junior PU members, and that in both the King (my King) is the final authority. I am that guy (talk) 17:37, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

Prewar Stage

 * Maghreb : 115
 * ​Population: (15 million): 60
 * Government: Iqta' (Islamic Feudalism) - +5
 * Economy: Tier IV +20
 * Technology:  Tier V +40
 * Mali: 65
 * ​Population: (10 million): 40
 * Government: Iqta' (Islamic Feudalism) - +5
 * Economy: Tier III - +10
 * Technology: Tier III - +10

Invasion of Rural and Coastal Mali

 * Maghreb: 82
 * Army Size: 75 (75,000)
 * Navy Size: 10 (1000)
 * Location: Near a coast or river +1
 * Great Leader: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Mali: 21
 * Army Size: 20 (20,000)
 * Navy Size: 0
 * Location: Near a coast or river +1
 * Great General: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Result:
 * Maghreb: 197
 * Mali: 86
 * 229% Battle Tier 1: Much of Coastal and rural Mali is occupied by Maghrebi forces, but the cities remain intact.

Battle of Tondibi

 * Maghreb: 101
 * Army Size: 100 (100,000)
 * Navy Size: N/A
 * Location: Near a coast or river +1
 * Mali: 31
 * Army Size: 30 (30,000)
 * Location: Near a coast or river +1
 * Result
 * Maghreb: 216
 * Mali: 91
 * 213% + 237%=450%. Tier 2 Battle: Mali is forced to retreat to Timbuktu and Niani and suffers heavy casualties.

Siege of Niani

 * Maghreb: 92
 * Army Size: 100 (100,000)
 * Location: Sieging the Capital, -8
 * Mali: 36
 * Army Size: 20 (20,000)
 * Location: Defending capital: +16
 * Result:
 * Maghreb: 207
 * Mali: 101
 * 204% + 450%= 652%. Tier 3 Battle: The Force in Niani was taken prisoner and the Maghrebi flag was raised above it.

Somebody deleted this before. Don't do it again

Battle IEdit

 * Prewar stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - +25
 * Population - +6 (1.5 million)
 * Government - +5 (tribal)
 * Economy - +7 (Tier II)
 * Technology - +7 (Tier II)
 * Technology - +7 (Tier II)


 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - +15.1
 * Population – +0.1 (25k)
 * Government - +5 (tribal)
 * Economy - +5 (Tier I)
 * Technology - +5 (Tier I)


 * Battle stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - +4.3
 * Army - +3.3 (11,000)
 * Navy - +2.5 (5 ships)
 * Location - +3.5 (near major river/coast with naval superiority)
 * GL/GG/GA - +0 (N/A)
 * Blunder - -5
 * Attrition - -0 (N/A; no winter in Cali)
 * Attrition - -0 (N/A; no winter in Cali)


 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - -0.7
 * Army - +0.3 (1,000)
 * Navy - +0 (0 ships)
 * Location - +1 (near major river/coast)
 * GL/GG/GA - +0 (N/A)
 * Blunder - -2


 * Casualties
 * Mzwerka (attacking)
 * 11,000 * 0.1 = 1,100 casualties
 * 5 * 0.1 = no ships lost
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending)
 * 1,000 * 0.15 = 150 casualties
 * 1,000 * 0.15 = 150 casualties

203.4% in-favour of Mzwerka (Tier I)
 * Final stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - (25 + 4.3) = +29.3
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - (15.1 - 0.7) = +14.4
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - (15.1 - 0.7) = +14.4

Battle IIEdit

 * Prewar stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - +25
 * Population - +6 (1.5 million)
 * Government - +5 (tribal)
 * Economy - +7 (Tier II)
 * Technology - +7 (Tier II)
 * Technology - +7 (Tier II)


 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - +15.1
 * Population – +0.1 (25k)
 * Government - +5 (tribal)
 * Economy - +5 (Tier I)
 * Technology - +5 (Tier I)


 * Battle stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - +5.97
 * Army - +2.97 (9,900)
 * Navy - +2.5 (5 ships)
 * Location - +3.5 (near major river/coast with naval superiority)
 * GL/GG/GA - +0 (N/A)
 * Blunder - -3
 * Attrition - -0 (N/A; no winter in Cali)
 * Attrition - -0 (N/A; no winter in Cali)


 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - -1.745
 * Army - +0.255 (850)
 * Navy - +0 (0 ships)
 * Location - +1 (near major river/coast)
 * GL/GG/GA - +0 (N/A)
 * Blunder - -3


 * Casualties
 * Mzwerka (attacking)
 * 9,900 * 0.06 = 594 casualties
 * 4.5 * 0.06 = no ships lost
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending)
 * 850 * 0.3 = 255 casualties
 * 850 * 0.3 = 255 casualties

231.8% in-favour of Mzwerka
 * Final stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - (25 + 5.97) = +30.97
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - (15.1 - 1.745) = +13.355
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - (15.1 - 1.745) = +13.355

TOTAL WAR SCORE: 203.4% + 231.8% = 435.2% (Tier II)

Battle IIIEdit

 * Prewar stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - +25
 * Population - +6 (1.5 million)
 * Government - +5 (tribal)
 * Economy - +7 (Tier II)
 * Technology - +7 (Tier II)
 * Technology - +7 (Tier II)


 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - +15.1
 * Population – +0.1 (25k)
 * Government - +5 (tribal)
 * Economy - +5 (Tier I)
 * Technology - +5 (Tier I)


 * Battle stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - +4.7918
 * Army - +2.7918 (9,306)
 * Navy - +2.5 (5 ships)
 * Location - +3.5 (near major river/coast with naval superiority)
 * GL/GG/GA - +0 (N/A)
 * Blunder - -4
 * Attrition - -0 (N/A; no winter in Cali)
 * Attrition - -0 (N/A; no winter in Cali)


 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - -0.8215
 * Army - +0.1785 (595)
 * Navy - +0 (0 ships)
 * Location - +1 (near major river/coast)
 * GL/GG/GA - +0 (N/A)
 * Blunder - -2


 * Casualties
 * Mzwerka (attacking)
 * 9,306 * 0.02 = 186 casualties
 * 5 * 0.02 = no ships lost
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending)
 * 595 * 0.75 = 446 casualties
 * 595 * 0.75 = 446 casualties

208.6% in-favour of Mzwerka
 * Final stage
 * Mzwerka (attacking) - (25 + 4.7918) = +29.7918
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - (15.1 - 0.8215) = +14.2785
 * Plains and Coast Miwok (defending) - (15.1 - 0.8215) = +14.2785

TOTAL WAR SCORE: 203.4% + 231.8% +208.6% = 643.8% (Tier III)

​

Prewar Stage

 * Italian League: total score: 45.8
 * ​Population:  12.8
 * Government: +13
 * Economy: +10
 * Technology: +10
 * ​Cyprus: total score 27.8
 * ​Population: 4.8
 * Government: +5
 * Economy: +7
 * Technology: +10

Battle Stage

 * Battle of Venice (1733)
 * Italian league (Defending): total score * penalties = 34
 * ​Army size: 100,000 troops = 30
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: TBD
 * Cyprus: total score * penalties = -3.4
 * ​Army size: 300 = 0.09
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: TBD

Final Stage

 * Italian League: 79.8
 * Cyprus: 24.4
 * Final Result: 327.05% (Battle Tier 2)

Prewar Stage

 * Italian League: total score: 45.8
 * ​Population:  12.8
 * Government: +13
 * Economy: +10
 * Technology: +10
 * ​Cyprus: total score 22.6
 * ​Population: 0.6 (150,000 - The OTL 1780 population roughly)
 * Government: +5
 * Economy: +7
 * Technology: +10

Battle Stage

 * Invasion of Cyprus (1733/4)
 * Italian League: total score * penalties = total score
 * ​Army size: 50,000 troops = 15
 * Navy size:  10 (200 ships)
 * Location: -10
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: TBD
 * Cyprus: total score * penalties = total score
 * ​Army size: 1,500 (Cyprus' Allowed Maximum): 0.45
 * Navy size:  5 (100 Ships)
 * Location: +4.5 (Near Capital)
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: TBD

Final Stage

 * Italian League: 60.8
 * Cyprus: 32.55
 * 'Final Result: 527.74 + 186.79 = 714.53

Prewar Stage

 * Russia: +55
 * Population: +32
 * Government: +7
 * Economy: +10
 * Technology: +30
 * Poland:  +52
 * Population: +16
 * Government: +6
 * Economy: +10
 * Technology: +30

Battle Stage

 * Battle of Vilnius 1733
 * Russia: +23.5
 * Army size: +24
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder:  +3
 * Poland:  +15
 * Army size: +6
 * Navy size: naval score (actual navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: +5

Final Stage

 * Russia: 78.5
 * Poland: 67
 * Final Result: Battle Tier N/A 117% Battle Remains Indecisive

Battle Stage

 * Second Battle of Vilnius 1734
 * Russia: +24.5
 * Army size: +33
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder:  -5
 * Poland:  +8
 * Army size: +6
 * Navy size: naval score (actual navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: -2

Final Stage

 * Russia: 79.5
 * Poland: 23
 * Final Result: Battle Tier 2 471% Poland forced to evacuate Vilnius, City falls to Russia, Since polish army was less than 25,000 I guess it was wiped out.

Battle Stage

 * 1st Battle of Brest-Litovsk
 * Russia: +79
 * Army size: +84
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder:  -1
 * Poland:  +46
 * Army size: +45
 * Navy size: naval score (actual navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: -3

Final Stage

 * Russia: 133.5
 * Poland: 98
 * Final Result: Battle Tier N/A 136% Battle Remains Indecisive


 * 2nd Battle of Brest-Litovsk
 * Russia: +71.3
 * Army size: +79.8
 * Navy size: N/A
 * Location: -3.5
 * Great leader: N/A 
 * Blunder:  -5
 * Poland:  +42
 * Army size: +47
 * Navy size: naval score (actual navy)
 * Location: +4
 * Great leader: N/A
 * Blunder: -0

Final Stage

 * Russia: 126.3
 * Poland: 94
 * Final Result: Battle Tier 1 270% Poland has an organized retreat from Brest-Litosk, Russian numbers at 238,400, Polish numbers are 104,975

Discussion
A reminder for the future that blunders give negative score, hence their name. General534 (talk) 05:06, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

40 Randoms Phase (1733)

 * Pre-war stage
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 111
 * Population: 50 (capped)
 * Government: 6
 * Economy: 25
 * Tech: 30
 * 40 Randoms: 33
 * Population: 5
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 3
 * Tech: 20


 * Battle stage
 * Battle of Stettin
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 28
 * Army size: 24
 * Location: 4
 * Blunder:
 * 40 Randoms: -1.4
 * Army size: 2.1 (size of Portuguese army at Battle of Montijo)
 * Location: -3.5
 * Blunder:
 * Result: 139/31.6 = 440% Burgundian victory
 * Battle of Stettin Pt 2
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 26.56
 * Army size: 22.56
 * Location: 4
 * Blunder:
 * 40 Randoms: -2.03
 * Army size: 1.47
 * Location: -3.5
 * Blunder:
 * Result: 165.56/29.57 = 560% Burgundo-Prussian victory
 * Final result: 1000% Burgundo-Prussian victory

Random Hohenstaufens Phase (1734)

 * Pre-war stage
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 100
 * Population: 34 (YOU DO NOT HAVE PRUSSIAS POP)
 * Government: 6
 * Economy: 30
 * Tech: 30
 * Random Hohenstaufens: 81
 * Population: 24 (they control a good chunk of Prussia and loyalty of the populations there
 * Government: 7
 * Economy: 20
 * Tech: 30 (they are equivalent to your tech its a professional modern army)


 * Battle stage
 * Battle of Hamburg
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 25
 * Army size: 30
 * Location: -8
 * Blunder: -1
 * Hohenzollerns: 38
 * Army size: 6
 * Location: 12
 * Great Gen: +25
 * Blunder: -5
 * Result: 121/119 = 101%
 * Battle of Hamburg Pt 2
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 17
 * Army size: 27
 * Location: -8
 * Blunder: -2
 * Random Hohenstaufen: 42.1
 * Army size: 5.1
 * Location: 12
 * GG: +25
 * Blunder: -2
 * Result: 117/123.1 = 105.1% in favor of Frederick
 * Battle of Hamburg Pt 3
 * Burgundy-Prussia: 11
 * Army size: 24.00
 * Location: -8
 * Blunder: -5
 * Hohenzollern: 37.9
 * Army size: 4.9
 * Location: 12
 * GG: +25
 * Blunder: -4
 * Result: 111/122.9 = 110% Hohenzollern Victory
 * Final Result: 114% in favor of Frederick Hohenzollern.

Discussion
The Hohenstaufen algo would've been up sooner, but to the schedules of myself and the mods, was delayed until now. I am that guy (talk) 00:02, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

I'd think that this algo (which took place in 1733), should it how up, should invalidate the 1734 Hohenstaufen event. I am that guy (talk) 12:10, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

Were not invalidating the now "Hohenzollern" event. Sorry but its high time Prussia choses its own destiny and a domestical royal unit will do it. -Feud

Since when was this guy a Great General? There's no mention of him being so in either events, and I spent hours on Discord talking about this guy to the other mods (including you) and no one ever even implied that he was a GG. What conclusion am I supposed to draw from that?

Also, Feud said this "was just some random noble", how is that GG material?

Also, why do I not get Prussias population? Prussian troops are making up the majority of the army fighting this guy, the battle is on Prussian land, and Prussia is an absolute monarchy (and also the junior partner of the PU) in which my king has the final say on matters such as military deployment. Plus, I got to use Prussias population on matters like the first Polish invasion, why not now?

Burgundys population is way too low in your version, it should be around 1-1.5 mil higher.

While on the subject of population, when you said "northwestern territories", I can assume you're referring to Holstein, Mecklenburg, and Altmark. Even allowing a somewhat larger area, there's no way that area hold 50%-plus of Prussias population. You have it at a population around it's current day scale, even allowing for post-WWII depopulation, this is still the early-mid 1700s.

Why do the rebels have a 20 for economy? Their a rebel faction that literally just got started the turn this attack took place in, are you really saying these guys have an economy greater than the tier 4 eco nations (a +15 bonus according to the current algo page), including, but not limited to, Persia, Japan, South India, Bengal, Sicily, and mutha  Fckn   England ?

The Hohenzollerns have no claim to Prussia in ATL. In otl, they rose to power there after the Luxembourg dynasty sold them Brandenburg. In ATL, that never happened, so the Hohenzollerns are still some minor Swabian family, who have no claim to Prussia.

I would argue that "basing" his rebellion out of Hamburg shouldn't give Hamburg the center of government bonus, but whatevs.

I am that guy (talk) 23:31, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

=Complaints and Upgrades=

Changes to Current Map
'''This is the section where you add expansion, complaints, or changes for the map in the PMIV Map Game. Please make it easy to understand for the mapmaker the expansion that you committed. This means including the name of your nation, and maybe an OTL location, and sometimes a reference map. Note, color requests will not be granted, as we already follow a color scheme.'''

Requested Changes/Errors for Next Version
Forgot to add a map when the Turkman Sultanate became indepedent -Nate

' ABSOLUTELY NO ANTI-ALIASING. THIS CREATES GRAINY UNEDITABLE SHIT MAPS. IF YOUR MAP IS USING ANTI-ALIASING YOUR CHANGES WILL NOT BE REFLECTED. '

18:53, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Add the Guuti Empire to the map please.The Expendable Broccoli Rob (Say Hi!) 06:39, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

Swahili Expands Fallacyman (talk)



I have settlements in OTL Oswego and Pulaski of some reasonable size for a few years. Person67 (talk) 06:39, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Swahili expands





Inner Mongolia annexed.

The Papal States took over the March of Montferrat (the tiny little state between papal States and Provence/Savoy) back in 1691. Callumthered (talk) 00:22, June 28, 2017 (UTC)====

Northern Borneo annexed (OTL Sabah).

Changes Completed/Fixed in Next Version
This section is only for the mapmaker to post which changes were added to the next map, PLEASE DO NOT WRITE YOUR REQUESTS HERE.


 * Added Ethiopia, Jaffarids, Amurids, Abbasids, and other Caliphate successor states
 * Iberian colonies and Comancheria now follow Rio Grande
 * Iroquois Confederacy now follows Mississippi River
 * New France now follows Parana River
 * Burgundian colonial expansion in Florida
 * Iberian colonial expansion
 * Savoyan colonial expansion
 * Corsica annexed by Savoy
 * Comanche expansion
 * Navajo expansion/native reclamation
 * Valais/Wallis under Savoyan protection
 * Colored Hawaii, Swiss Confederation, and Savoy
 * Colored Bengali colonies
 * Small Catalan revolts
 * Jin acquisitions in Mongolia
 * Papal conquest of Montferrat
 * French colonial expansion in Brazil
 * Added captaincies to New Valois
 * Corrected Savoy captaincy

Mod Event Complaint
When complaining, please include the year of the event that you are complaining about.

Anangu Kingdom - 1569

 * I'm assuming this has been happening for a while, but I just noticed it in 1569 and the map complaints page. What is this bs with the Anangu Kingdom? A civilization of this size could not, and should not, exist in Australia in the given time period. It especially should not be developing at the rate that the mods are claiming. Cour *talk* 02:53, January 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, plus the population growth rates are grossly exaggerated. It is unlikely for a state to go from a few dozen thousand to approaching two million within a century, and certainly impossible if it is in the pre-industrial age.
 * I don't want to start an argument as I am not wedded to the Anangu Kingdom, but I will give some explanation. The original tribe I started playing as, the Ngarrindjeri, started in 1440 with a population of 6,000.  The total population of southern Australia, including all tribes (that I estimated), was about 300,000. After the Ngarrindjeri developed agiculture, that knowledge spread across the rest of Southern Australia to all the tribes. Thus, all of Southern Australia's population began to increase exponentially from the food production, eventually devleoping cities and city-states. The Ngarrinjderi themselves, which was only one city-state among many, rose in population from about 6,000 in 1440 to now roughly 200,000 in 1570. The total population of Southern Australia, from all the tribes rose from about 300,000 in 1440 to now 1.8 million in 1570. As for its size, there is a reason I didn't post a map until this point. The South Australian Civilization was only a collection of dis-united city-states until around 1560. Rather than one nation conuqering that  whole area, which would have been impossible, the Anangu Kingdom formed as a result of multiple unions and conquests internally that unified the city-states together, just like any other civilization in history. As a single, organized state, the Anangu Kingdom first appeared in 1560, before conuqering other more tribal areas nearby (and I don't expect it to last very long before fracturing). Also, the fact that the South Australian Civilization is only bronze-age technology helps its unification. If the city-states were very well developed like China or Italy, it would have been much harder for them to conquer or unify with each other. Now, I will admit that I compressed the usual timeline of civlization growth for the sake of creating something interesting for the game, so again I'm not completely wedded to it if anyone else doesn't really like the idea. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  13:17, January 16, 2017 (UTC)

Bengal events 1604-1605
Bengal doesnt have 300,000 troops. There are 10% Muslims in Aryavarta and that is 10 million so they have an army of 100,000. I had 50,000 troops there already and I should also be give a chance to put up my troop numbers. I swear Scraw had approved me having a 1 mil army. So I retain West Bengal and East Bengal is independent not its vassals. Also since there are 10 mil Muslims they create their own army and Hindus are not loyal to them. There are 100,000 Burmese troops and I will use them in the algo. Secondly I have clearly stated that there are 1300 ships in the Bay of Bengal so no Rashidun troops reach Bengal. You have adjusted my algo to 800,000 troops. Now there are another 200,000 and 100,000 Burmese. So due to me having only 1 million. There is no invasion of South Bahmani. As a result there are even more troops in Bengal.

There is no way there will be more than 10% Muslims in Aryavarta also Bengal has 10 million that is all the Muslims. No Hindus support the rebellion and they definitely do not join their army. Muslims ruled solidly for at least 400 years in India under the Mughals and still they were just 25% in 1947.

I had clearly stated that my navy is in the Bay of Bengal and I swear that Scraw approved me having a 1 mil army. Also I have changed the algo. Nate and Warrior adjusted my algo to 800,000 but I have 200,000 more.

As I am not absolutely non feudal that is why Scraw has allowed me to use the 0.01 of my population.

Dev271 (talk) 07:14, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

Various miscellaneous complaints (mostly Rajput) - 1623
^^ SALTY AF

We didn't mean that all the military revolted, just the Rajput loyal to the nobles of Maratha. All that would cause is decreasing your mlitary by 60%.
 * Where a nation like Swahili (3 million = 280 ships) can send 800 ships. Where special nations are exempt from questions on their population. From the wikipedia, the Ottomans (1600) had a population of 26 million but today the country that mirrors it is at 50 million and still the mirroring country is smaller than OTL Ottomans(Anatolia, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia, Moldavia, Bosnia,Wallachia).
 * Again from Wikipedia - When OTL Persia under the Safavid dynasty under its greatest extent under Shah Abbas 1 (1588-1629) had a population of 3.2 million, but the country that mirrors it which is smaller boasts of a population of 15 million. According to Ottoman pop. in 1600 the smaller country should have 10-15 million.
 * These two mirroring countries deploy forces larger than they can. Where the countries who dont have a reason for naval growth can take up Malay islands. But another country in the South of India is told that it is too far from Java to care about it. (Drake and France). This is implausible af.
 * Aryavarta has had 5 Rajput kings out of 7. These were kings of the Rajput nations themselves. They integrated them during their reign. Rajputs are adequately represented in the council I dont even touch Maratha territory. Marathi is not even spoken in my nation.
 * My army is not composed of the Rajputs. This was senseless considering the amount of Rajputs my council has and that they have a different province - Rajputana and the Rajputs are its governors.
 * Persia- At max 3 million. Not 15 million. Warrior says it is 15 million.
 * I accept that India had a pop. of 100 mil. (Moreland's estimate is highly debated though). But the North would have 60 million because of density differences. Also I promise to the mod council I will not expand more (except Ahom). Let me have my nation as it is now and I will lay low. I promise.
 * I do agree - DrDrake
 * Actually Dev, I cannot find the ridiculous 3 million pop claim. I searched for it. And, feud says my nation is at 11 mil, nate says it is at 15 mil, when rimp ruled it and it had a lot of territory it was at 35 mil. 3 mil is ridiculous, sources can be very shaky. The population of Iran has not been that low since the Mongol Conquests. ~Warrior
 * Iran proper has a population of four million or so. However, Iran in-game also has parts of Pakistan.
 * The part of Pakistan that Iran has is not the fertile areas. It is Balochistan and the Tribal area not having more than 500,000 people.
 * He's literally holding the entirety of the Indus River valley. If that's not "fertile", I don't know what is.
 * Yes, you are correct, Iran proper has about 4 million however, due to the indus river, I have an additional 10 mil or so. ~ Warrior

I believe in OTL the middle east, Zanzibar and Persia did have lower populations than ATL, and this is primarily due to the 50 million poeple of the Timurid Empire not collapsing in war and famine as OTL. The Caliphate's population in the middle east was reduced to 30 million in the early 16 century and has been growing at the same rate as OTL, just with a higher principle. It is also compensated by the fact Swahili adapted more advanced agricultural methods than OTL relative to their area, so their population increased as a result. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  23:29, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

Also, I have indus river, another 10 mil people. So Iran has more people than OTL, plus the 10 mil in the indus river. So even more than 15 mil dev. ~Warrior

Asside from those two issues, there really isn't anything implausible about the revolt as posted. The Maratha, as you know, broke off at the same time OTL, and was about the same scale and structure.

Now, if you promise, as you say, to leave Bengal as it was before and expand nowhere except Assam as you said, then we would cause the revolt to resovle itself. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  19:38, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

So it appears dev is right about the Indus. However, the confirmed population of Gurkani following the treaty of Batman was 19 million after its signing. I also have sindh now, and qatar. The reason it is so much higher than OTL is as nathan said, " 50 million poeple of the Timurid Empire not collapsing in war and famine as OTL." So my population is somewhere around 20 mil. enough said.

user talk: Warrioroffreedom123 08:40, March 12, 2017 (UTC)Warrioroffreedom123

Sakhan Events 1644-5
I'm not going to strenuously oppose this, but I'm just a little unsure how there is suddenly a large number of firebrand Orthodox in Sakha after approximately one year of Russian Orthodox proseletysing, when the local (Nestorian) Sakhan Church of the East has been solidly established for ages and ages, and has had the support of the Papacy (through the Korean/Japanese Missions) for over eighty years. Maybe I missed how long the Russians were sending missionaries but like, I'm not seeing it. Callumthered (talk) 07:18, April 6, 2017 (UTC)

^^^ Agreed.

Distance and geography. Russia borders Sakha and is thus able to directly influence them, while Papal missionaries have to circumnavigate Africa, India, Indochina, and East Asia to reach Sakha (it's a bit out of your range). General534 (talk) 04:15, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

Except that there have been strong Catholic bases in Korea and Japan for over a century...Callumthered (talk) 05:51, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

Cologne 1672
Seriously? A woman preaching protestantism in Cologne of all places? The font of the Adelphinian reforms, the location of the Council of Cologne? I find the existence of "protestant" groups in Northern Germany fanciful enough given all the effort Nonsense and I have gone to, but this takes the cake. Callumthered (talk) 06:09, May 12, 2017 (UTC)

One person does not a religious movement make. I decided to throw it in just to have some interaction between Scandinavia and Cologne. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  06:16, May 12, 2017 (UTC)

Fair fair. Callumthered (talk) 03:00, May 13, 2017 (UTC)

Imperial Court 1681
How would "many" members of the imperial court be Dutch speaking? For one, it's not even fully established yet as I'm still waiting on a response from Cologne. For another, the event ignores how the court is set up: its a three man court, with one member from Austria, one from Cologne (hopefully), and one from Burgundy-Prussia. So only one member would potentially be Dutch speaking, unless cologne or Austria nominate a Dutchman, which I don't see happening.

Is the event supposed to make others suspicious about the court? The addition of "Just so that you know" tacked on makes me believe so. If you're going to do that, please at least make so the event conforms with the courts organization. I am that guy (talk) 19:03, May 20, 2017 (UTC)

Imperial Court 1685
'''Austria is supportive of Cologne's idea of a judicial council in Cologne, but does not recognize the Imperial Council of Burgundy. Austria uses its hegmony in the southern states to support its own supremacy. Bohemia is on the fence. This tension is most ignited by the Pope's friendly diplomacy with Saxony, leader of the anti-imperialists, which suggests a Papal dissatisfaction with the House of Burgundy.'''


 * 1) The "Judicial council in Cologne" and the "imperial council of Burgundy" are the same thing. I put the court in Cologne to give it a sizable degree of independence from the Emperor and because of Colognes nigh universal respect among the HRE states and factions.
 * 2) Once more, Austria has already supported the court, with it naming a judge to man its seat on it.
 * 3) If Austria is so keen on becoming HREmperor, then why undercut the authority of the central court by setting up a rival court? And why discredit its reputation by first supporting the central court, then retracting it and making its own?
 * 4) Bohemia is in a PU with me.
 * 5) Since when was Saxony the leader of the anti-imperialists?

I am that guy (talk) 17:03, May 24, 2017 (UTC)

You can't be the Netherlands and Germany. That is not fair. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  00:05, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

General Moretocome events 1698-99
Yes, I know this is a joke, but how am I supposed to respond? How does one "coup" a colony? Did he overthrow the governor and impose a dictatorship? Or is he still under Iberian rule? Assuming the 24,000 professional troops stationed in Maranhão (that are completely unaffiliated to this "general") didn't stop him, how did he manage to pull a fleet out of his ass and send it to India? There are a lot of reasonable mod events that could happen; this is not one of them. General534 (talk) 13:42, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Prussian Restoration
Can someone further explain this "Prussian restoration"?

The nobility have jack-all for actual power, and since there's only forty of them, and that the army answers to the crown and not them, I'm assuming it's just a few disgruntled nobles got together in a barn and decided to do something dumb. I am that guy (talk) 22:52, July 14, 2017 (UTC)

Concentrations
The Concentration system is new to Pm4. In this system, nations will either pick a concentration between the Army or the Navy, as no nations, with some extreme exceptions, could afford both at this period in time. How it will work is this:
 * 1) Nations will pick a concentration, assuming they have a choice. Nations that are landlocked can only pick Army, while nations like Genoa or OTL Venice can only pick Navy. You will need to recive mod approval for which ever you pick
 * 2) Your concentration can be officially changed every 30 years, although the mods may change it via event depending on the actions of your nations or wars you get involved in. An example of this would be something along the lines of the Spanish Armada. After a destruction like that, Spain would have to switch from Naval to Army because its prized navy was destroyed. Events like that can and will force changes in your concentraction.
 * 3) Your concentration will give you a 10% boost in the respective algorithim as long as it is changed without mod event.
 * 4) Simply add it to the table below to declare it (Add more rows if needed)
 * 5) If the cell with your concentration is green, that means you are currently getting the bonus. If it is red it was forced to change by a mod event. If it is gray it was never approved in the first place.

EDIT:Since there was some confusion on chat, I will explain. In AP Euro one of the thigns we discussed was what led to the rise of France and England as two of the dominant powers in Europe, and what made the two nations different. One of the things brought up is how even France, which during the rise of nation states, was among the richest and most powerful nations in Europe and the world. However, even they could not afford a powerful army and navy, so they where forced to choose between the two. France picked their army, and England picked their navy. Both nations had capable Armies and Navies, but the French navy was noticably weaker than the English navy and the English army was noticably weaker than the French Army.  This doesn't mean you can't develop both , but at this time, nations focused on one, often at expense of the other.

African Sultanate of Maghrib | Navy | 1605 | 1635 | -

Explanations of lack of Approval
Feel free to dispute it in a civil manner, and if it gets out of hand you will get a three day game ban.

Colonization and Contact Confirmation
In order for you to colonize or explore another region of the world, you must be confirmed through this process. Message me with any questions or concerns. Add more rows as needed.
 * 1) You must follow all rules laid out in the rules page.
 * 2)  You must show two things to colonize: Capability and Motivation. If you lack one, you can not colonize
 * 3)  Your reasons must be confirmed by 3 mods. Even if you have waited 15 turns for an answer, it does not matter. Pester a mod into giving you a yes or no.
 * 4) Mods can say no. If one of them says no don't try and pretend they ignored it.
 * 5) You can only seek to confirm the nation you play as and nothing more.
 * 6) When seeking confirmation, you want to include the date you would begin colonizing. If you want to do it right away, put the turn of your request.
 * 7) If a mod finds this date to be too early or too late even, they should inform the player as such. Not every nation colonized at once so if you decide to try in jump in right away, even if you have the means and the motive to do so, you may be rejected because of the date.

'''IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY VOTES, IT MEANS YOU CANNOT COLONIZE OR EXPLORE. DO NOT TAKE SILENCE AS APPROVAL.'''

Access for Landlocked polities
Requiring 2/3 approval of mods, which currently means 4 mods.

Augsburg
Mods only
 * Yes
 * No
 * I know you would be able to make tiny ports like OTL Malta or something, but that gets so minor it might as well not even be mentioned Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  00:58, November 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * 22:45, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Deadly State of Mind (talk) 14:15, January 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * Abstain

Tier Upgrade
When requesting an upgrade, use the following format:

*Nation (player) **Current tier and tier you would like to be upgraded to **Provide reasoning **Mod response here

Economic Tier Upgrade

 * Britain (Person)
 * Tier 4 to Tier 5
 * I now have an intergrated country free of internal trade barriers, I have been out of war for some time and I haven't had any fighting in my own land in longer, I have a developed taxation and borrowing system, my population has gorwn, I have some colonies which produce cash crops and furs, the canals and roads allow internal trade and I gaining an agricultral surplus. Privateering brings some money in and France, Iberia, Burgundy all have been at war recently or currently.
 * Mod response here
 * The Caliphate
 * Tier 4, trying for Tier 5
 * Tier 4 was the tier for the Caliphate back before the Persian War. Since then, The Caliphate has dominated the Silk Road trade by land, via the Compact of Beyrut, and by sea, via the Arab-Indian Company. Not to mention the exclusive trade deals with Bulgaria and the creation of the Bank of Cairo
 * Mod response: Approved. ~Wolvesmod
 * Norway -- Dream_Helix_Fossil_Sprite.png Praise Helix Welcome my children Tumblr_n1i7boISUv1rvlenbo1_500.gif
 * Tier 3 trying for 4
 * Norway has inherited and now owns sweden a tier 4 economy since we have it is only natural that we now become a tier 4 economy.
 * Mod Response- Approved. ~Wolvesmod
 * Sakha - Shikata ga nai! 02:49, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Upgrade from Tier I to Tier II
 * Because of substantial trade with East Asia, mining activity, development of settled agriculture due to reforms. Also the Yakuts have long had metallurgy and more modern technology, plus greater political organization and technology than most tribes, that facilitate economic development.
 * Mod Response- Approved. ~Wolvesmod


 * Malaya (Sidewinder)
 * Upgrade from unknown to Tier II
 * Trade hotspot in Straits of Malacca, as well as upgrades in trading ports.
 * Mod response: Approved -Nate


 * Korea
 * Tier 4, trying for Tier 5
 * Korea is now China. Self-explanatory.
 * Mod Response: Approved -Nate
 * Kingdom of England and Ireland
 * Tier 3 and I would like to be tier 4
 * Well I now control Ireland, I have been doing trade with Asia, Africa and Arcadia. I got money from the loss of Avalon. I built a load of canals, my population grew. I am pursuring merchantile policies. Similiar and no longer existing European nations are listed as Tier IV and Tier V
 * Mod response: Approved -Nate
 * Tondo
 * Tier 2 and would like tier 4
 * Trade hotspot between the west and the orient. Tributary status under China provides much wealth for the nation. Tondo is also a major trading partner for multiple European nations. Tondo also has settlements in Borneo, a very resource rich area.
 * Mod response:
 * The Punjab Confederacy
 * Unknown- Should be Tier 3-(Tier4 in near future)
 * The Confederacy of Punjab has benefitted immensely from the English trade enclave in Bilaspur as well as trade agreements with several nations, such as England, Burgundy, Venice, Aryavarta (?) and Bengal. Two major ports have been built or expanded recently increasing international trade, while state roads are beginning to be developed. A merchant fleet is being built, while piracy has helped reduce nearby competitors, though trade allies (England, Burgundy) are unscathed due to deals with the pirates. Cotton plantations are being built, while infrastructure has also been build
 * Tier 3 Approved
 * Bengal Sultanate Adolf Coffee (talk) 23:09, May 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Tier 3 trying for Tier 4
 * The nation itself has expanded on setting up trade routes to make trade easier. Educational facilities have been made. Trade in the Med. and the Indian Ocean has expanded with a production of a variety of wanted crops. Influence and tech have helped the nation grow as a whole from other nations such as France and England. Many jobs have been made for people and production of currency has spread to become a more common use in the nation itself. Newspapers are commonly used in the nation to deliver local news and etc. which had become a booming industry. Coastal Towns and cities have become hotspots for business. Weaponry is also made based on French and English weapons. Shipyards have also expanded to create more ships to be used in trade. Silk is commonly traded with nations who make and participate in trade deals in our nation as well. Also, city upgrades have grown more common making the construction business more common and creates more money for the nation. Mines have fueled the development of high-priced jewelry as well. It only seems reasonable that as much as my nation has grown, it remains in Tier 3 but I hope by looking back at what my nation has done in the past decades, it is easy to say withought a doubt my nation deserves Tier 4.
 * Mod Response: approved -Nate
 * Swahili Fallacyman (talk)
 * Tier 3 to Tier 4
 * Swahili is one of the dominant trade powers in the Indian Ocean. From the Arab-Indian Company, Swahili and Caliphate has dominated trade in the Indian Ocean, particularly in the West Indian Ocean. Swahili dominance on commerce had led to the develop of several banks in major cities of Swahili, as well as the formation of the World's first stock exchange, which trades shares on voyages. Introduction of Arcadian crops by Akida has led to increased variety and output of agricultural good in Swahili, and also made Swahili one of the largest cash crop and food crop supplier in the Indian Ocean. Supply of contracted servants from the interior of Africa and also hydraulic engineering funded by banks had led to mass scale plantation farming in Swahili, further increasing output. This has further benefitted trade, as increased demand for these Arcadian foods and spices made Swahili merchants one of the largest merchant force in the Indian Ocean. Technological cooperation with the Caliphate and England had led to more productive production methods, helping Swahili transition towards processed goods too. The develop of processed goods, coupled with the high supply of raw materials, meant that Swahili gained respectable textile, ceramics, sugar refining, papermaking and glass industries. Due to the high demand of merchants, Swahili shipbuilding is one of the most developed shipbuilding industry in the world, producing a merchant fleet of more than 2,000 ships. The conquest of Zimbabwe and colonial expansion also brought to Swahili multiple minerals, which further builds onto the Swahili economy.
 * Mod Response:
 * Godly Kingdom of Lan Xang
 * Trying for Tier 3: Lan Xang has had extensive trade with Korea-China, bengal, and Cambodia. It is modernizing and borrowing technologies from Korea such as the blast furnace that could help its ecnomy Also, it is modernizes its agriculuture and irrgiation base, which could boost its population and crop output.
 * Mod reponse:
 * having computer problems, sorry the format is messed up
 * Cambodia - Derp
 * Unknown to Tier II or III
 * In the algo, it says Khmer is Tier III. Cambodia is basically the successor state of Khmer, so it should be able to get at keast a Tier II. Also extensive trade with Korea-China, Lan Xang and Malaya.
 * Mod Response:

Tech Tier Upgrade
Mod response – Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC) Knights Hospitaller Unknown to Tier III (or Tier II if mod decides) The Knights have been weakened but we still have retained modern technology and have been taking in skilled immigrants building small universities and schools. We have also been building up infrastructure
 * Delhi Raj (Dev271 (talk) 10:27, December 31, 2016 (UTC))
 * Unknown (Delhi is not listed). Delhi should be Tier IV.
 * Because of the use of gunpowder, artillery, firearms, communication and postal system from sultanate times, not a feudal nation.
 * Mod Response- Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sakha - Shikata ga nai! 02:47, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Upgrade from Tier I to Tier 2
 * Because of substantial contact with East Asian nations which has resulted in adoption of modern technology to some degree, incentivized by mining and immigration to profit from it. Also the Yakuts have long had metallurgy since before they migrated to Siberia (http://www.geocurrents.info/place/russia-ukraine-and-caucasus/siberia/the-yakut-sakha-migration-to-central-siberia).
 * Mod Response- Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Korea
 * Tier III to Tier IV
 * Korea has independently discovered gunpowder during the late 14th century, and during the same period Korea was one of the first countries to mass-implement the usage of naval artillery. In the 15th century, Korea had the first armoured ship (the "turtleship", though this is the slightly different older model mentioned in the Annals of Joseon), measured meteorology (creating the first Korean rain gauge) for agricultural purposes, and made various astronomical clocks to measure astrology. Not to mention, Korea also uses advanced firearms (such at the matchlock whose blueprints were obtained from Gurkani merchants), and locally-produced gunpowder weapons; all with the access to China, the most advanced national technologically in-game.
 * Mod response – Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Knights Hospitaller
 * Unknown to Tier III (or Tier II if mod decides)
 * The Knights have been weakened but we still have retained modern technology and have been taking in skilled immigrants building small universities and schools. We have also been building up infrastructure while we are also reorganising our military. We are non-feudal and try to encourag innovation. We are at least a tech level above the natives and higher native civilisations and are probably Tier III. If Tier III is deemed too high please place the tech at least at Tier II.
 * Tier II approved -Nate
 * Malaya (Sidewinder)
 * Unknown to Tier II (Or which every Tier the mod decides on)
 * Malaya has implemented Chinese and Aryavarta technologies into its navy, and has state capitals that are quite developed. Firearm technology has been encountered and replicated, from China or Gurkani. Trade from Europe also brings technological progress to some extent.
 * Tier II approved -Nate
 * Japan (KawaiiKame)
 * Unknown to Tier IV
 * Japan has implmented Burgundian naval designs, recieved the idea of heliocentrism from Korea in Busan and the Papal States in Nagasaki, and has recieved technological advancements from Burgundy, Korea, Iberia, and the Papal States.
 * Mod response:
 * Korea
 * Tier 4 to Tier 5
 * Korea is now China. Self-explanatory.
 * Mod response –Korea has independently discovered gunpowder during the late 14th century, and during the same period Korea was one of the first countries to mass-implement the usage of naval artillery. In the 15th century, Korea had the first armoured ship (the "turtleship", though this is the slightly different older model mentioned in the Annals of Joseon), measured meteorology (creating the first Korean rain gauge) for agricultural purposes, and made various astronomical clocks to measure astrology. Not to mention, Korea also uses advanced firearms (such at the matchlock whose blueprints were obtained from Gurkani merchants), and locally-produced gunpowder weapons; all with the access to China, the most advanced national technologically in-game.
 * Tondo
 * Unknown to Tier 3
 * The influx of Chinese and European trade has bode well for Tondos technological achievements. The navy is very advanced for the standards in its region, implementing some european designs.
 * Mod response
 * The Punjab Confederacy
 * Unknown- Should be tier 3-4 (Mods Call)
 * The Confederacy has expanded technologically with many universities being opened up for research. Also foreign naval designs have been integrated with native designs creating a hybrid design. The main ports are also highly sophisticated taking 12 years of labour to build and integrates modern English technology. Trade has also helped to spread technological ideas. Former part of Aryavarta and so retains a postal system. With the former territories lacking infrastructure for firearm production, and with most of it wrecked by the Rebellion, the Confederacy utilises English aid to create firearms, and artillery and so are up to a modern standard. Naval academy trains officers to a high standard, while the Army is elite and highly trained.
 * Tier 3 Approved
 * Athabaskan confederation
 * tier one to be tier two
 * I on my own discovered agreculture and Metal working also i created a form of writing wich is a combination between hirglyps and a alphabet.also I founded the Religion of chipmunkism and because of it i got my first official laws i also got 4 villages one with a population of 7 500
 * Approved -Nate
 * Bengal Sultanate
 * Unknown- Should be Tier 4
 * The Sultanate has developed ways to build absolutely massives ships. We have also managed to gain firearms like flintlock guns and produce them on our own. We have developed an education system for reasearch and learning. Much of our tech is derived from French and English weaponry and tools. We managed to be able to make large shipyards and better methods for training our now very strong and sophisticated military. We created newspapers before they were invented in our timeline and we have a postal system. Our homes are french based as well and we also have a sewer system in our nation as well that is in each province. We also have very long well made roads. Our Navy has 100's of ships and we also have a well maintained economy and infrastructure. We also use cannons and produce gun powder plus artillery. When it comes to agriculture and domestication of animals we have also been successful. It only makes sense that my nation should be tier 4.
 * Approvd -Nate
 * Godly Kingdom of Lan Xang - Warrior
 * trying for tier 4, but if not tier iii
 * Lan Xang has imported important technologies from Korea-China, such as the blast furnaces, and thier latest firearm designs in recent years. It is created an advanced irrigigation system as well that connects the Hmong to the regular populace, and the peasants to the city. Bascially, my main justifcaiton for tier 4, is that Lan Xang is bordered by China, a Tier 5 nation, and recently has been trading alot and aquirring technology. But if that is implausilbe i will accept tier 3 instead.
 * Cambodia - Derp
 * Unknown to Tier III or IV (mods call)
 * Being a Korean-Chinese tributary, Cambodia has inherited many technologies from them, such as gun models and blast furnaces. An irrigation system is currently being created, and most roads are paved. It is also a regional trade hub.
 * Swahili Fallacyman (talk)
 * Tier 3 to Tier 4
 * Swahili is one of the technological leaders of the Islamic World (behind the Caliphate). Swahili is the proud user of many advanced production techniques, such as the blast furnace and textile, glass, and sugar manufactories. The Swahili ship building industry is one of the most advanced in the world, producing a merchant fleet of over 2,000 ships, and development of several world leading ship types. While Swahili ships are lacking in firepower due to development from merchant vessels, they pride themselves in mobility and maneuverability. The Swahili also invented ship designs similar to OTL East Indiamen and OTL Barque. The Swahili military is also a respectable force, modeled mainly after the Caliphate military as well as marine tactics developed due to our naval tradition. Swahili is able to produce cannons, ammunition, gunpowder and flintlock guns as a result of technological cooperation with the Caliphate. Swahili also has a well developed infrastructure system, with a road system from Bandar Qasim to Aliwa, and a postal system along the roads. The capital city, Mogadishu had recently undergone a new urban development project and built a well organized and complex sewer system. Newspapers are also published in Zanzibar and Mogadishu. Swahili financial technology is also extremely developed due to the large volume of trade. There are multiple banks in Swahili, as well as the world's first stock exchange in Mogadishu. Swahili also has a fully developed educational system featuring Mosque schools and Madrassas (Universities). These Madrassa contain some of the world's leading scientists and technology, especially for biology and agricultural sciences. As a result, Swahili is the independent co-developer of calculus (Rab-Nints) and the discoverer of cells. In practical purposes, the Madrassa of Mogadishu had also domesticated multiple plant species and introduced agricultural techniques. For example, Swahili was the first user of the four field crop rotation system. The finanacial system and focus on agriculture also means the Swahili have advanced hydraulic engineering technology from multiple experiments and the drier climate of Somalia.
 * Mod Response:
 * Swiss Confederacy The Expendable Broccoli Rob (Say Hi!) 03:50, June 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * Tier Unknown to Tier 2(and rising)
 * Several Universities were built, a new swiss language(to create a unified national identity), and stuff was brought back from an expedition to the Caliphate, which is a higher tech tier.

Discussion
=Information and Resources=

Current Map
1654

Algo
For the algo please see the Rules and Algorithm page for everything you need.

Rules and Algo page

=General Discussion=

Leaves of Absence
I will not be online because of internet problems as I am attending a wedding. I will be back online by 4 February. --Dev271 (talk) 16:55, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

Nations to choose from
Hi, I'm Firestorm. I've wanted to join PMIV for quite some time, and my friend told me it's ok. But, when I went to choose a nation, I noticed some states that were visible on the map were not found on the list. Examples include the small states in modern day South Africa and Australia. Could anyone guide me as to what countries are actually available?

Edit: is this state in Modern Day Georgia Pontus?

Thanks, FirestormBlizzard (talk) 07:57, May 14, 2017 (UTC)

That is indeed Pontus.

02:40, May 16, 2017 (UTC)

Inactivity
After what length of time can somebody be considered inactive and removed from a nation? Yours, Emp --His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Romanus (talk) 08:08, May 14, 2017 (UTC)

At least two weeks or depending on the nation longer.

02:40, May 16, 2017 (UTC)

Mod event suggestion for Borneo
Tondo invades Borneo because of it's colonial ambitions. It fights the Sultanate of Kalimanstan following its capture of Borneo, who temporarily halts Tondonese advances in Indonesia.

user talk: Warrioroffreedom123 19:01, May 14, 2017 (UTC)Warrioroffreedom123

How Does a Tribe become a Nation in this map game?
Sorry for being such a scrub.

FirestormBlizzard (talk) 07:30, May 16, 2017 (UTC)

Lol firestorm

the great lord of swift birds (talk) 23:38, May 17, 2017 (UTC)

Objections
Sorry, but a number of users are actively responding to my turns despite them being secret. For example, many nations have begun anti-piracy operations against me despite me at no time illegally preying on their shipping. In response to me SECRETLY hiding a limited number of 'citizens' in un-occupied areas of the East African coast, NOT ACTUALLY DOING ANY PIRACY, I have had nations attack me. My turns are secret so this is rather unfair, but the two nations doing so are both moderators so I do not want to anger them. -Emp

An idea on how Long to wait for a response to my colonial ambitions?
Yup, I wanted to know an estimated time it will take for me to get any responses on the talk page.

Thx, FirestormBlizzard (talk) 12:08, May 19, 2017 (UTC)

Helping Sultan Whateva post
Hello.

I need you mods help with getting Sultan Whateva able to post. I am currently posting what he tells me on discord, and yes, I can do it, Person did it with oct, it has been done multiple times before. But we have a player who cannot edit the page, and I want that to change.

user talk: Warrioroffreedom123 12:29, May 21, 2017 (UTC)warriorrofreedom123

What does this actually mean
 The Earl of Oxford lauches a coup to take out the King of England 

It's kind of vague as to what happens here. I mean how does he launches a coup, does it succeed? Is it up to my interpretation? Person67 (talk) 05:28, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

Your actions decide whether he succeeds or not. it's based it off the Earl of Essex revolt in OTL Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  02:20, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

HELP
Can i please have help with an algorithm? I need to know if me attacking Chinook worked.

Event suggestions III
Some suggestions for events and states (or ATL equivalents) that could appear, as of 1701.


 * A great migration of Fula nomads into western Mali causes the west coast to fragment into independent states. The Fula carve out their own empire, known as Great Fulo (only triggered if Morocco invades Mali).
 * In eastern Borneo, the Kingdom of Kutai Kartanegara conquers its neighbor, Kutai Martadipura, uniting Kutai under a single dynasty. (Kutai has existed for centuries, maybe now it can be shown on the map?)
 * A prominent Maratha warrior of the Bhonsle clan is proclaimed King of the Marathas and promptly invades Goa. (Not Punjab, for real this time)
 * Lan Na drifts into de facto independence from Siam, but remains a tributary.
 * Java erupts into civil war due to dynastic claims and old rivalries. Various pretenders emerge to claim the throne or establish their own kingdoms, some asking for support from France, Burgundy, or Iberia. The effects of the war reach far beyond Java, though, as neighboring states see an opportunity to revolt against foreign rule in absence of a strong military presence. The interior kingdoms of Bali expel the French and regain independence. Revolts occur in Timor, Brunei, Banten and Sumatra, while unrest reaches all corners of Indonesia.
 * In the wake of the Caliphate's numerous power struggles, the Mehri people found a new dynasty in the Mahra region of eastern Yemen. The Mahra Sultanate is self-ruling and subordinate to the Caliphate, but altogether separate from the Jaffarids. The island of Socotra soon comes under Mehri influence, as they share a similar culture and would have better protection under Mehri rule than under the Qamarids of Madagascar.
 * Kuba and Lunda revolt from Al-Afriqia for religious reasons. Kuba raises a sizable army, while Lunda is protected by its geographical isolation.
 * The kingdoms of Ndongo and Matamba unite.
 * With the influence of the Caliph diminishing, the Kingdom of Kaffa and the Oromo Kingdom of Jimma break off as independent.
 * The Qamarids, ruling from Madagascar, are unable to hold any direct influence over Somaliland after being separated from their Omani homeland and vassalized by the Swahili. Realizing this, the Somali expel their former overlords from Berbera and Bandar Qasim.
 * The Kingdom of Gorontalo conquers the northern tip of Sulawesi from Banggai.
 * The Empire of Kanem-Bornu begins to decline and sees a reduction of territory to the area around Lake Chad.
 * The Kingdom of Shilluk is founded on the banks of the White Nile in Sudan.
 * A new khanate forms in Xinjiang around the city of Kumul.
 * The Kazakhs revolt from the Great Khanate, establishing their own Kazakh khanates in the western part of the realm. In the midst of the revolt, the Torghut Oirats begin a migration west in search of better pastures, expelling the the resident Nogai from the Caspian Sea and encamping on Russian territory near the Volga River.

Other events

 * Pirates attack settlements in Newfoundland and Labrador.
 * Corruption grows in the French Bahamas after it is discovered that the colonial governors accepted bribes from pirates.
 * An earthquake hits Jamaica, causing extensive damage to coastal settlements on the island. Much of Port Royal is swept out to sea.
 * The Wabanaki raid European settlements in northern Arcadia, from Nova Belgica and Prins Rupert Island to the English settlements along the St. Lawrence River.
 * After over a century of stagnation, the tribes of the Great Khanate now feud for internal power, resulting in a very decentralized state. In many areas, national unity gives way to tribal identity, leading some to question the authority of the Great Khan. The Oirat tribes in particular rise to prominence, and other areas become autonomous in Xinjiang.

Updated periodically.

General534 (talk) 17:00, May 30, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with these, except for great fulo. In order for great fulo to happen, Morroco must invade Mali. That is why great fulo formed otl, morrocan invasion of Songhai.

user talk: Warrioroffreedom123 15:43, June 2, 2017 (UTC)warrioroffreedom123

Fair enough, but Morocco seems to be leaning in that direction anyway so it's only a matter of time. General534 (talk) 10:18, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

New nations
I have a few questions about creating a new nation:

1. Can the new nation be created inside another nation? For example, If I decide to create a new country that would take away half of a pre-exsisting country, would that work?

2. What are great nomadic hordes?

3. What is the difference between tribes and countries?

4. When does a tribe becomes a country?

As one of the mods of the game ill be happy to answer your questions.

1. No a new nation cannot be created like that out of another one like your speaking of. Some of these users have been involved for all or most of the game and turning around and taking it all away for someone else to have their way with half their country just isnt fair. However if a nation revolts away and tries to become independent like for example Ireland revolting from Great Britain, you could take over as soon as Ireland was independent fighting or after they won or secured said independence.

2. Great Nomadic hordes were a powerful force in the beginning of the game that have more or less fallen off due to the evolution of military tactics and them getting mauled pretty bad in the 1500's. there are only two major ones left and they are truly not even that "great" anymore

3. The Difference between a tribe and a nation is a Tribe is a group of people that more or less has not truly settled down and become a bound to the land society yet. Its like looking at the Aztecs vs the Comanche. The Aztecs have established language, huge cities, highly developed culture. A Tribe while maybe having highly developed culture, does not have huge cities, usually doesnt have their language written down either.

4. A tribe becomes a country when they settle down and start establishing permanent settlements, farming etc etc... it takes a good amount of time and usually going from a totally unsettled tribe to society requires either centuries of development or outside interference.

Thank you for the quick response! So, if I understand this correctly, half of the country could, theoretically, become a new country, if it would revolve. How does this work? When does a nation revolve?

 GreenPotato 19:16, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

He means "revolt", as in "rebel". For instance, Scotland could revolt from England and become independent. General534 (talk) 15:28, June 9, 2017 (UTC)

locked
why is it locked IkeAngew (talk) 16:34, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

Prewar Stage

 * Ethiopia :86
 * ​Population: (15 million): 60
 * Government: Absolute Monarchy - + 6
 * Economy: Tier II +10
 * Technology:  (Tier III) +10
 * Tripoli state:76
 *   population: (10 million): 40
 * Government: Oligarchy/Council - +6
 * Economy: Tier III - +10
 * Technology:Tier IV - +20

Invasion of Southern Egypt

 * Tripoli: + 21.37
 * Army Size: (65,000) + (16,250) = 81,250 (24.37)
 * Navy Size: (300) (30.5)
 * Location: Near a major river or the coast with naval superiority: -3
 * Great Leader: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopa: + 23.5
 * Army Size: (75,000) (22.5)
 * Navy Size: 0
 * Location:Near a major river or the coast: +1
 * Great General: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Result
 * Maghrib:
 * Ethiopa:
 * Battle Tier: Tier 3

Prewar Stage

 * Ethiopia :86
 * ​Population: (15 million): 60
 * Government: Absolute Monarchy - + 6
 * Economy: Tier II +10
 * Technology:  (Tier III) +10
 * Tripoli state:76
 *   population: (10 million): 40
 * Government: Oligarchy/Council - +6
 * Economy: Tier III - +10
 * Technology:Tier IV - +20

Faiyum Battle

 * Tripoli: + 20.87
 * Army Size: (65,000) + (16,250) = 81,250 (24.37)
 * Navy Size: (300) (30.5)
 * Location: Near a city: -3.5
 * Great Leader: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopa: + 20
 * Army Size: (75,000) (22.5)
 * Navy Size: 0
 * Location:Near a city: -3.5
 * Great General: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Result
 * Maghrib:
 * Ethiopa:
 * Battle Tier: Tier 2

Tripolian push for Occupied Egypt

 * Ethiopia :86
 * ​Population: (10 million): 60
 * Government: Absolute Monarchy - + 6
 * Economy: Tier II +10
 * Technology:  (Tier III) +10
 * Tripoli state:76
 *   population: (10 million): 40
 * Government: Oligarchy/Council - +6
 * Economy: Tier III - +10
 * Technology:Tier IV - +20


 * Tripoli: + 21.37
 * Army Size: (65,000) + (16,250) = 81,250 (24.37)
 * Navy Size: (300) (30.5)
 * Location: Near a major river or the coast with naval superiority: -3
 * Great Leader: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopa: + 23.5
 * Army Size: (75,000) (22.5)
 * Navy Size: 0
 * Location:
 * Near a major river or the coast: +1
 * Great General: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Result
 * Maghrib:
 * Ethiopa:
 * Battle Tier: Tier 3


 * ======PUSH FOR WADI SOMETHING======
 * Ethiopia :70
 * ​Population: (10 million): 40
 * Government: Elective Monarchy - + 5
 * Economy: Tier II +10
 * Technology:  (Tier III) +10
 * Tripoli state:76
 *   population: (10 million): 40
 * Government: Oligarchy/Council - +6
 * Economy: Tier III - +10
 * Technology:Tier IV - +20
 * Tripoli: + 48.82
 * Army Size: (65,000) + (16,250) = 81,250 (24.37)
 * Navy Size: (300) (30.5)
 * Location: Near a city: -3.5
 * Great Leader: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopa: + 20
 * Army Size: (55,000) (16.5)
 * Navy Size: 0
 * Location: Near a city: +4
 * Great General: +0
 * Attrition: +0
 * Blunder:
 * Result
 * Maghrib:
 * Ethiopa:
 * Battle Tier: Tier 3

Prewar Stage

 * South India: total score
 * ​Population: pop score - penalties = pop score (actual population)
 * Government: gov score (government type)
 * Economy: econ score (econ tier)
 * Technology: tech score (tech tier)
 * ​Telangana: total score
 * ​Population: pop score - penalties = pop score (actual population)
 * Government: gov score (government type)
 * Economy: econ score (econ tier)
 * Technology: tech score (tech tier)

Battle Stage

 * Battle name (year)
 * Attacker name: total score * penalties = total score
 * ​Army size: army score (actual military, percentage of total military)
 * Navy size: naval score (actual navy)
 * Location: loc score (location name)
 * Great leader: bonus scores or N/A (leader name)
 * Blunder: blunder score
 * Defender name: total score * penalties = total score
 * ​Army size: army score (actual military, percentage of total military)
 * Navy size: naval score (acutal navy)
 * Location: loc score (location name)
 * Great leader: bonus scores or N/A (leader name)
 * Blunder: blunder score

Final Stage

 * Attacker name: total score
 * Defender name: total score
 * Final Result: Battle Tier tier (percentage score), summary of result

[MOD EVENT REQUEST] Italy: The Powderkeg of Europe
Also posted on my Sicily OOC:

This may be a bit random, but do you think it would be appropriate to name Italy this timeline's "powderkeg of Europe?" With Bulgarian dominance in the Balkans, this most certainly can't be applied there. However, throughout this game, the various powers have been competing for influence in Italy, sometimes leading to bloody conflicts: the Kingdom of Italy, the Sicilian War of Independence, Papal expansion wars, and now the current Italian Crisis. As of right now, even with negotiations in Rome, we're on the verge of a Seven Years' War.

I think it would be appropriate for, as an event in 1731, that a European country (preferably a neutral one) publish a newspaper giving Italy that title.

-- Orange (talk) 19:35, July 13, 2017 (UTC)

Reference map of India
Since there has been some confusion about the various kingdoms of India, here is reference map and table of nations from the late 1600s. Foreign relations of each state may have changed significantly since the Treaty of Gaya. For instance, Malwa and Goa are currently influenced by European powers. General534 (talk) 23:18, July 13, 2017 (UTC)



Prewar Stage

 * 
 *  Balochoistan state:76
 *  '  population: ' (300,000):
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Government:Iq’at  - +5
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Economy: Tier II - +
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Technology:Tier III - +
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Persia: 75
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Population: (10 million): 40
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Government: Elective Monarchy: 5
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Economy Tier III: 10
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:1.38;"> Technology Tier IV: 20

Invasion

 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:12pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> persia:40.75

<p style="font-size:14px;">
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Army Size: (16,250) = (48.75)
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Location:
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Great Leader: +0
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Attrition: +0
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:22pt;line-height:1.38;"> Blunder:

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:12pt;margin-bottom:15pt;font-size:14px;line-height:1.38;"> Balocistan: + 40.5


 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:18pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Army Size: (2,250) (6.75)
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Navy Size: 0
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Location:
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Great General: +0
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Attrition: +0
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Blunder:
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Result

<h3 dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:15pt;line-height:1.38;"> Mod event complaint ''' Prussia has a quick restoration movement, led by a cabal of 40 nobles, proclaiming independent Kingdom of Prussia and Luxembourg once again. The military is generally undeceided, leading to a civil war in the nation. '''
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Persia:
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;line-height:1.38;"> Balchoistan:
 * <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:15pt;line-height:1.38;"> Battle Tier: Tier 3

<u style="font-size:16px;">With no clear winner in sight, the prussian civil war continues, including many bloody battles.

For christ sake, the first mod event just shows a general lack of knowledge. Prussia and luxembourg is indepdent of Burgundy, they share a monarch. It would be one thing for a rival claimant to the throne or for the Prussians nobles to argue for a Parlimeant so they could check the power of a foreign King. This event is confusing as anything though. Yet I will presume the basic idea of it is one side wants to support Burgundy and the other side wants to not be allied with Burgundy.

The second mod event is just lazy. The civil war just contuines, I understand mods have limited time especially now some of them are moving around and lack internet but you can't just make civil wars and then do events like that. Some bloody battles, for fuck sake. At least think a little bit about a civil war or just ask a user who is a player in the area for an understanding of what is going on. This mod event with Saxony and Bohemia shows a shocking lack of thought from the mods. Bohemia is larger than Saxony yet Saxony is just marching in. Take the time to think about events rather than just drop interesting or violent ideas. Yes being a moderator does unfortunately take precious time which many of us not gifted with but then draft in more moderators do not just do this. Person67 (talk) 23:22, July 15, 2017 (UTC)

Britain develops modern warships (this makes you the first with the new ship stuff Person you have 15 years use it wisely).

This mod event appears to be entirely arbitrary. Other nations have had ships of the line since the 1600s alongside Britain. I'd argue that none of them deserve to be first or have a head start of 15 years, when the concept has been around for 80 years. Grant the algo bonus to those who have seriously developed the technology in their turns (Britain, Burgundy, Belka, maybe Russia), and make the rest wait 15 years. General534 (talk) 04:12, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

Mali event suggestions
''' Following Maghreb's invasion, the Empire of Mali collapses into fragmented states vying for regional power. Actual Maghrebi control rests in the Timbuktu area, while the rest of the empire rejects the authority of the puppet sultan. The central Mali rump state (ruled by the sultan's son) remains under Maghrebi influence but is de facto independent. '''

''' A great migration of Fula nomads into western Mali upsets control of the Atlantic coast, as many new kingdoms spring up in the wake of Mali's collapse. The Fula carve out their own empire, known as Great Fulo. '''

These don't necessarily happen in the same turn, but they can. General534 (talk) 17:59, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

Responding Events to Ethiopia
(Ethiopia became a hermit kingdom and one giant monastery, this can't make muslim communities, the caliphate in Cairo, and traders who make money by going through egypt)

After the Emperor closing off the borders and declaring Ethiopia a theocracy, several Muslim communities in Egypt declare their independence.

The Caliph denounces Ethiopia for closing its borders and not allowing Muslims to visit him.

Or something like that. Squidzo&#39;s meat house (talk) 16:46, July 19, 2017 (UTC)

Available Countries
Hi, I'm a bit confused as to what nations are available. Could anyone help me out? I am especially interested in the large Anatolian Nation. I would like to know its name please (I assume it is the Emirate of Rum).

Thank You,