Board Thread:Timeline Discussions/@comment-7559950-20130911012534/@comment-76.174.227.119-20131111062814

First posting. A few thoughts about German/Axis behavior during World War II before main theory.

I agree the main problem with Axis victory was extended urban bombing and no solution with UK and invading Russia when they did and then bogging down. Some facts as to why in the Russian front. The first negated any hope of peace treaty with the UK and the last just sucked the entire German war machine away.

The very core of the early Nazi Party were soldiers of World War I who had been assigned to guard the territory gained from Comminust Russia's leaving the war. The treaty of Brest-Litovsk gave Kaiser Germany the Baltics, and what was to become Belarus and Ukraine. This was the height of victory for those soldiers at that time. Just months later is was all taken away by the Treaty of Versailles. Such a huge victory dashed so dramatically in such a short period of time was the very core of "betrayal" by the government that so drove and galvanized early Nazi support. And the betrayal was all focused on that key area of conquored territory.

It was also the World War I dream of this land from Brest-Litovsk providing Germany with Lebensraum or Living Space.

The other key point most people forget is that the center of Prussia, the core of the German officer core, before W W I  was to the east of Danzig. They lost all of that in World War I. Millions of Germans were pressed way west to a much smaller Germany.

One must also keep in mind that the German evolution on how to deal with the "Jewish Question" was every evolving even up to what one would consider creating concentration camps by accident.

The final observation is that the three main Axis powers biggest obstacle to victory anywhere was the absolute inability to coordinate war strategy to any great degree.

Now for the Axis outcome in World War II.

As has first been noted above, the absolute annihilation of the Japanese army in the Battles of Khalkhin Gol between Russia and Japan in 1939 kept Russia free to look westward for the entire rest of the war.

Germany realizing much earlier that they would not be able to invade UK  and much less bombing might have stopped UK bombing of Germany for some years. That was not done.

The next change would have to have been Italy invading Greece. This is perhaps the most costly error behind invading the Soviet Union that the war produced. Germany having to (or more importantly deciding to) come to Italy's rescue by going through Yugoslavia and Bulgaria tied up huge amounts of war machine that really was horribly wasted for little military value. Without that theater many later war outcomes could have been much different.

We come then to the decision to invade Russia. The long term hard core Nazi's wanted Brest Litovsk back and the German army core wanted Prussia back.

Virtually up until the planning of the invasion of Russia the over riding plan for dealing with the Jews was to quickly conqueor Russia and send the Jews across the Urals to settle. Then put Baltic/Ukraine region in the Lebensraum and let the rest of Slavic Russia fend for themselves with little industry and resources.

Invading Poland the Germans very quickly realized that Germans did not want to move to Prussia or Brest Litovsk Territory or any Lebensraum. They wanted a life of urban industrialism not rural farming in the east.

But the Jews of Poland were there to deal with. They had no place as yet to put them or any idea what to do with them.

The German high command, and Hitler especially, now had a three pronged problem. Nazi's and Army clammering for eastward movement, what to do with the Jews and the need for oil. All problems conspired to make the invasion of Russia almost a foregone conclusion.

In trying to control the Jewish people, move Polish people for Germanic people who were not coming and to clean up the mess in the Balkans used far far more soldiers than Germany had ever planned to use or should have. Pre Russian invasion having one of these problems might not have hurt the overall plan. Three sunk it before the first Germans crossed the border.

As some have already mentioned if instead of the Balkans and Russia the Germans had first moved on North Africa and then the Middle East they might have quickly provided a place to send the Jews, supply oil and keep the war machine going. Such a huge area of conquest might have satisfied Germany's desire to have "colonies" and become an equal member of the empire club, of course just when all the other empires were finally really winding down. Instead of Greece Italy could have been given reign over North Africa. It was not to be.

The unfortunate lack of a quick and decisive victory in Russia, as in the West of Europe, sealed the fate of the Jews. They had no place to go and the German could not/would not let them stay.

And of course, in terms of numbers on any factor the virtual entire thrust of the Second World War was the German Russian Front. Everywhere else, as horrific as they may have been, were really just side shows to the main slaughter and warfare.