Talk:Principia Moderni III (Map Game)

=Resources=

Archives

 * Archive 1
 * Archive 2
 * Archive 3
 * Archive 4
 * Archive 5
 * Archive 6
 * Archive 7

Algorithm Template
Because the current algorithm looks like s***, I've taken it upon myself to do the players a favor and create an algo template that is more becoming of a map game of PMIII's caliber. Enjoy. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:40, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Nation One (Attacker)
Total: 0
 * Location: 0
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: 0 = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 0
 * Motive Modifiers: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Nation Two (Defender)
Total: 0
 * Location: 0
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: 0 = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 0
 * Motive Modifiers: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * ((Winner/(Loser+Winner))*2)-1 = 0
 * (0)*(1-1/(2*0)) = 0

Map Issues
''' The issues of the previous map shall be cleared after each map to save up space, unless a discussion is still going on. '''



For the 1650 map, Japan has been unified through a mod event (circa 1642), vassalized through the smaller Taiwanese state in Taiwan, has the port city of Yantai, and Has conquered the Aniu. Also, Reme has expanded over 160 pixels. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 00:53, October 6, 2014 (UTC)

Benin/Croatian Knyazdom of Dahomey is still gray. It should be Croatia-green. It was once on the map then got removed. Sky Green 24 (Party,quotes) 11:51, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

None of my expansions for a over a decade have been listed. Hispanolia should be solid red right now, as well as most of my Borealian colonies.FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 03:05, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Labelled


These great and wonderful maps have been made and labelled by Scandinator. Please be sure to thank him for his intense dedication and deep-level research that he put into these maps.

Mscoree (talk) 04:48, August 3, 2014 (UTC)

Cultural


Now, I will attempt to list the myriad of cultures that are represented on the map. To do so, I will go by continent.

It is finished! 01:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Religious Map
If you want to update the map, please list the changes you've made in the Notes section, along with your signature; this enables me to update the color key and change log accordingly, preventing confusion for readers. TankOfMidgets (talk) 19:58, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

The map is now up to date for 1475. TankOfMidgets (talk) 19:48, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Color Key

All regions are shown according to their plurality religion.

Catholicism is yellow; the Western Church nations are shown in dark gold, and Catholic states whose churches function independently of the Roman Church are shown in pale yellow. Ludwigism is shown in bright gold. Eastern Orthodoxy is orange; Oriental Orthodox sub-branches are burnt orange. *Reformism is red. Sunni Islam is lime green, Shia Islam is forest green; Ibadiyya Islam is dark green, Assafi Islam is bright green, and Paganistic Islam is mint green. The Mastorava is teal blue, Hinduism is sky blue, and Buddhism is dark blue; the Bon religion is pale blue, and Mongolian Buddhism is grey-blue. Confucianism is purple, while Shintoism is violet. Other "pagan" religions are pink; the Mesoamerican pantheon is light pink, the South American pantheon is hot pink, the North American pantheon is fuchsia, and the African pantheons are all dark pink. Other religions will be added as needed.

Notes
 * Added coloration for the Mastorava, Assafi, and Paganist-Islam sects.
 * Switched pale yellow from Sedevacantist to independent-Catholic.
 * Venice is still "Catholic" for the time being, but it will be shown as independent-Catholic when the Venetian player announces that his church takes orders from him instead of Rome.
 * Ayutthaya and its vassals are now Buddhist.
 * Tartary and its vassals are now Mastoravic.
 * Added Ludwigism Blocky858 (talk) 00:45, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Added Charismatic Christianity and Mogul Khanate is now Charismatic king Trevor 1 of wales (talk) 12:38, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Mod Event Grievances
Just so that it doesn't clutter the page, please post your mod event questions, comments and grievances here. This -should- be archived every five years.

=General Discussion=

Nations of China
This is the list of nations of China starting from the NW to the SE. The highest point of that states is what is considered (if you're confused, I'll be posting a map soon, so don't fret):
 * 1) Uighur
 * Jin
 * 1) China
 * 2) Xi'an
 * 3) Disorganised States/ The Small Kingdoms
 * 4) Sichuan
 * Wu
 * Chu
 * Min
 * 1) Yunnan
 * Yue

Here's the map.

Iroquois

 * Location: 18
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: Iroquois (L), Susquetana (LV), Erie (LV)=11/3=4
 * Military Development: 60=60/26=2
 * Economic Development: 60-3= 57/41=1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 3+3+3 = 3
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Broken Treaties: -5 (NAP)
 * Result: 35

Scandinavian

 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus: 5
 * Nations: Scandinavia (L), Nehilaw (M), Chisasibi (L), Nemaska (L)= 18/4=5
 * Military Development: 26/60=0
 * Economic Development: 27+10+5 +5 (Strategic Locations)=46/57=0
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Expansion: -1
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Motive: 10+3/3=4
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +6 +2 (Less than five times larger)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 7000 + Scandinavian troops
 * Recent Wars: -8
 * Concurrent Wars: - 15
 * Result: 40

Discussion
Scandinavian victory

You need to add concurrent wars since technically the Austrian war didn't end yet. Mscoree (talk) 02:17, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

You need to add concurrent wars, recent wars, and subtract the number of years you were at war from development. Also from what Feud told me for my own war, only one L per colonial algo. NonEuclidean ツ (Talk) 02:20, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

From what I see in the Brandengburg war, Ms, the war should last 4 years, meaning it'd end in 1625. So unless you want to be a jerk just so Crim could lose another war, I think the concurrent wars shouldn't be added. Sky Green 24 (Party,quotes) 12:28, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Just btw, Nemaska and Chisasibi are technically in PU, given that they are ruled by the same governing body and are represented in this body. Chemu byt tomu ne minovat' 22:35, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

It looks like everything is about right. Bfoxius, I'm kinda partial to a renewal of the NAP. If you have any terms or grievances, just post on my talk page. This war's lasted for about as long as a war should last. Crim de la Crème 17:25, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Can someone confirm the treaty breaking penalty? According to Crim it was added by Feud and Sine a month ago, but when I looked on the rules I saw it was actually added by Crim a week or so ago. It definitely has not been there for long, as in the past Feud actually removed the penalty after Sine added it to his algorithm. In the past both Sine and Feud said it wasn't a rule, so unless it is a new rule and they say otherwise, I assume it;s not a rule. Mscoree (talk) 19:29, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

In response to your edit summary, I didn't undo all the changes, all I did was edit the discussion section. Mscoree (talk) 20:39, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

The Christians Front
Total: 164
 * Location: 18
 * Location Bonus: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: L(Rome),L(Croatia),L(Dacia)  = 3
 * Military Development: 60+10(No previous lost wars)+10(Naval dominance, judging by the fact that it's three nations with a navy versus one that's fighting on two fronts)+5(More total troops)+5(Fully mobilized)=90/-2=90
 * Economic Development: 60+(Larger economy)5+5(Larger trade/Colonial empire)=70/7=10
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+3+3=4
 * Motive Modifiers: -3
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit count: 7047 (MP)
 * UTC: 4:27 = 56
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 35,000+35,000+100,000/45,000=4
 * Number of Ships: 80+30+350/60=8
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

The Egypt
Total: 45
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:+7
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: L(Aegypt) = 0
 * Military Development: 9-3-10=-4/2=-2/93=0
 * Economic Development: 9-2=7/70=0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 6
 * Motive: 9
 * Motive Modifiers: -3-6
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit count: 15154
 * UTC: 4:27 = 56
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Recent Wars:
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0
 * Multiple wars: -10

Result

 * 56.937799041%
 * (^)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 42.703349281%

The Muslim Front
Total: 186+troops+chance
 * Location: 19
 * Location Bonus: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: L(Mansurriya),L(Damascus),L(Urdustan).L(Yemen)=4
 * Military Development: 110(Same as the upper front)=110
 * Economic Development: 90/7=13
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 4
 * Motive Modifiers: -3
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8/9+10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

The Egypt
Total: 47+chance
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:+5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: 0 = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 9
 * Motive Modifiers: -3-6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0
 * conncurent war:-10

Result

 * 59.65665235%
 * (0)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 44.74248927%

Discussion
Someone is very lazy

That someone is me, I assume. Also I added in Yemen since Rimp stated that he'll also join in on the war, however he can be removed if he wants to be removed. Another thing, are these two separate wars or two fronts? Cause I think we agreed on a war on two fronts. Sky Green 24 (Party,quotes) 13:14, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Someone fix the 'Result' for the Muslim Front. Also, these are two different wars. The Muslims invaded to protect the Muslims of Aegypt. The Christians invaded so the Muslims do not take all of Aegypt. In simple words, both are trying to take parts of Aegypt without attacking each other and Yemen is invading Aegypt RexImperio (talk) 17:21, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think either way it is safe to say Egypt collapsed after one year with both invasions gaining over 25% in that time. Stephanus rex (talk) 22:43, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

But those two sides are not in a coalition or alliance with each other. The 25% thing would have worked if both sides were part of a greater coalition RexImperio (talk) 02:54, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Pskov (Attacker)
Total: 140
 * Location: +10
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Nations per side: Pskov(L), Narva(LV) = 9/5=2
 * Military: = 48
 * Score: 20+10
 * Naval Dominance; 10
 * More total troops: 5
 * Moderately Sized Army : 3
 * Calculation: 30+10+3+5/(negative) = 48/1 = 48
 * Economy: 16
 * Score: 20+10
 * Much Larger Economy: 10
 * Economic golden Age: 3
 * Larger Colonial Empire: 5
 * Calculation: 30+10+3+5/3 = 48/3 = 16
 * Locations Bonus: 0
 * Motive: 15
 * Pskov: 3(econ)
 * Narva: 3(aid)
 * modifiers:
 * +6(democratic)
 * +6 High Morale
 * Calculation: 3+6+6 = 15
 * Expansion: +0
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Pskov: +5
 * Narva; -5
 * Calculation; -5/2 = -2.5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 3000/500 = 6
 * Chance: 6
 * Number of Posts: 3215
 * UTC time: 1:28 ; 2*8 = 16
 * Calculation: 3215/16)*pi = 631.2 6 37
 * Population: +26
 * base:+6
 * Modifier: +20
 * Recent Wars: +0

Maputo (Defender)
Total: 56
 * Location: +25
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Nations per side: Maputo (L)= 5, 0
 * Military: 0
 * NPC bonus: 5
 * Not Initialy Mobilized: -10
 * Small military: -2
 * Much Smaller Armed Forces: -5
 * Economy: 0
 * NPC bonus : 5
 * Smaller Economy; -2
 * Total; 3
 * Less than opponent = total 0
 * Infrastructure: 5
 * Motive: 4
 * Life or Death: 9
 * Low Morale: -5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Chance: 7
 * Number of Posts: 3215
 * UTC time: 1:28 ; 2*8 = 16
 * Calculation: 3215/16)*pi = 631.263 7
 * Population: +5
 * Recent Wars: +0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Troops = 500, 0

Result
((140/(140+56))-0.5)*2)*(0.75)*100%= 33% after 2 years of very light fighting, Maputo Dies

Dividing by 2 for negitive is nonsensical, seeing as if they had 1 you would get +48.  I am on the edge...  The EdgeofNight   20:24, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

IN the Rules it says devide by 2, so I devide by 2...-Lx (leave me a message) 21:04, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

It is nonsensical there too. It took me 2 wars to conquer Chiribaya when if I got the full amount of points for my developement rather than dividing it, it would have taken 1.  I am on the edge...  The EdgeofNight   21:24, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with that, if they got 1 or 0 I would get double the ammount of points...but one other thing...if I get that extra 24 points,  THen I conquer their entire governement in 2 years instead of just that small chunk!-Lx (leave me a message) 21:40, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Largest Cities?
So I brought this up on chat, but they where all preoccupied.... with other things. Out of curiosity I wan to know everyones largest city so that we can know which one it is globablly. From what I was able to get, Shanghi has 200k.  I am on the edge...  The EdgeofNight   20:24, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

My largest city is Prague at 100,000+ people by 1600, making it the largest city in the Holy Roman Empire and probably central Europe. The next largest city in the Holy Roman Empire is Vienna at 50,000. Then you have Augsburg at 45,000, Cologne, Nuremburg, Hamburg, Mageburg, and Breslau at 40,000, Strasbourg at 25,000, Lübeck at 23,000, Regensburg at 20,000, Ulm at 21,000, Frankfurt am Main at 20,000, and Munich at 20,000. These numbers again are approximations around the year 1600. Mscoree (talk) 20:33, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

I did a quick check and as far as I can tell Paris is about 420,000 people, which I assume is the largest city in France. Mscoree (talk) 20:37, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Constantinople is the largest city in the Roman Empire, with probably a little less than 300,000. After that is probably Athens, Thessalonica, and Smyrna for the top four cities.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 20:44, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Actualy, Constantinople would be one of the only cities in the world with over 1 million population...just like rome in the ancient empire...-Lx (leave me a message) 20:53, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Except for the many years of decline during the Latin Empire and the continued chaos of the late Empire. In OTL, when Constantinople fell, it had only 50,000, if I recall correctly, so it had to recover, and is at 300,000 for now.

Not what it was, nor what it will hopefully be.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 20:55, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

actually in OTL constantinople had about 700 000 people in 1650. With Rebirth and growth a figure of 1 million is not taht implausible...-Lx (leave me a message) 21:01, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

This is interesting, I would've thought Constantinople would've been closer, if not exceeding, 1 million citizens by this time ATL. I am that guy (talk) 22:25, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Dacia's largest is probably Constanta, but it might be Varna. Stephanus rex (talk) 22:40, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

Anyway, people are seriously underestimating the sizes of cities here, my largest City is Pskov, followed by Nizhegorodsk-na-Narve, followed by Ostrov, then goes Luki, and last but not least, Novoprussiysk. Pskov is also the largest city in Russia surpassing moscow and novgorod at 300 000 people...and before people start yelling in OTL moscow had a population of 200 000 in 1600-1650ish[citation] And since moscow *cough* is in steep decline *cough* is currently not an expemplar of success, and Pskov is, in fact, the only russian state with access to the Baltic, it would make sense for People to move from Moscow---to Pskov, instead of what happened in OTL, people moved from everywhere, to Moscow. So yes, my population for Pskov is Plausible. 300 000 to 350 000 it shall remain untill the next century.-Lx (leave me a message)

Doing some Wikipedia research I was able to find that London had a population of about 200k in 1600 OTL. Beijing had about 700k OTL. Paris had pretty much the same as what MS said, and Constanitinople had about 400k at this point.  I am on the edge...  The EdgeofNight   10:48, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Kunene has a 100k pop, so not that large I guess in the scale of large cities. And yeah, Peking was the largest city until London took it over in the 19th century. Saamwiil, the Humble 22:20, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Prussia (Attacker)
Total: +96
 * Location: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Nations per side: Prussia (L), Neu Franken (M), Zollern Insels (M) =11/3 = 4
 * Military: 60+10+10+5+5+3=93/20 = 5
 * Economy: 60+10+3+5=78/20 = 4
 * Locations Bonus:
 * Motive: +8
 * Prussia: 7+4
 * Neu Franken: 6
 * Zollern Insels: 6
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Expansion: +0
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops:
 * Chance:
 * Population: +8 +20
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops:

Seminole (Defender)
Total: +41
 * Location: +25
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Nations per side: Seminole (L) = 5
 * Military: 20, 0
 * Economy: 20, 0
 * Locations Bonus: 0
 * Infrastructure:
 * Motive: 9-5-10
 * Expansion: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Chance:
 * Population: +6
 * Recent Wars:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Troops

Result
((96/(41+96))*2)-1=0.401459854

0.401459854*(1-1/(6)) = 34%

Principia Moderni III Base Map
So I am planning on doing a TL, and for quite some time I have also been interested in using the PM map for a few projects of my own but after many hours spent searching on the internet I was unable to find the map. I believe this is becuase one of the mods made the map and it is part of the intelectual property or ownership. If this is the case I am requesting permission to use the map, or if the map is public then I would be greatly appreciated if someone would attach a copy of the base map. Thank-you.

Aternix!? 11:52, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

You know you could just save the current map and use Paint to turn all the continents black if you plan onto carve your own nations. Or use the Maps Page to save the first PMIII Map. It isn't difficult RexImperio (talk) 14:30, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Here is the official original PM3 map. It is the most accurate map made to date for the series, and is from Scandinator. I believe that IP doesn't apply to Wikia-original images, since I think it operates on a CC-BY-SA Creative Commons license. What this means can be found here! What is your TL going to be about, Aternix? 00:49, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for the slow reply. I have finished changing the map to completely black, if anybody would like a copy just give me a message. (There may be a few spots left here and there, but I think I got all of them.) My TL will be about the Norse captain Bjarni Herjolfsson, who was blown off course when he was on his way to see his Grandparents. OTL, he was begged by his crew to stop and look at hills in the distance and he refused. My TL is where he landed some 15 years before Leif Eriksson, and was able to return and build a sucessful colony.



Great Lakes territory
Hey just wondering who has control of the area of the southern Great Lakes region? I believe their colony or territory, whatever clashes with the territory of the Ottawa. My current nation. CaptainCain (talk) 01:06, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

I believe there Scandivadian and British colonies in your area, correct me if I'm wrong, but those are the colonies in your area. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 12:34, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

Absences
I have been very busy with school and work and my relationships. I will try to post, but due to my hectic schedule, therefor I am canceling any major wars I may have had planned. I regret being unavailable and I am so sorry for any misunderstandings. I will keep my nation curated with the help of sky. However I warn that there may be days, weeks even, when I am not on. I appreciate the understanding and hope my schedule opens back up to allow me to play as I have in the past.FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 21:28, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

Rome (Attacker)
Total: 138
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 6
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Rome (L), = 1
 * Military Development: 20+10+10+5-2=43
 * Economic Development: 20+10+5=12
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Motive Modifiers: +4+5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 7066/(1*9*5*pi) = 49.9817256839
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 7500/2500=3
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0
 * -15

Yamasee (Defender)
Total: 56
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: 1
 * Military Development: 6-3-10=-7
 * Economic Development 5/2=3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7/2=4
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive Modifiers: -5+4
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
Win in 3 years.
 * ((Winner/(Loser+Winner))*2)-1 = 0
 * (0)*(1-1/(2*0)) = 0

Rome (Attacker)
Total: 138
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 6
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Rome (L), = 1
 * Military Development: 20+10+10+5-2=43
 * Economic Development: 20+10+5=12
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Motive Modifiers: +4+5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 7066/(1*9*5*pi) = 49.9817256839
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 7500/2500=3
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0
 * -15

The other nation next to Yamasee (Defender)
Total: 56
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: 1
 * Military Development: 6-3-10=-7
 * Economic Development 5/2=3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7/2=4
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive Modifiers: -5+4
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
Win in 3 years.
 * ((Winner/(Loser+Winner))*2)-1 = 0
 * (0)*(1-1/(2*0)) = 0

Discussion
Mp gave permission <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 19:56, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

Blank Map
Here is a copy of the blank map of PMIII if anybody wants one. :) Aternix!?  02:50, September 21, 2014 (UTC)

Croatia (Attacker)
Total: 144
 * Location: 15
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: Croatia (L), Western Hungary (MV), Britannia (S) = 2
 * Military Development: 20+10+10+5+3=48
 * Economic Development: 20+10+5 = 12
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Motive Modifiers: +4+5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit count: 2,364
 * UTC: 12:40 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) = 94.0605713673
 * Nation Age:
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 30,000/7,000=4
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Benin (Defender)
Total: 55
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Benin (L) = 0
 * Military Development: 6-2-10/2 = 0
 * Economic Development: 7-2/2 = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7/2=4
 * Motive: 9
 * Motive Modifiers: +4-5
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 12:40 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) = 94.0605713673
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
Conquered in 2 years.
 * ((144/(55+144))*2)-1 =
 * (x)*(1-1/(2*0)) =

Austria (Attacker)
Total: +98
 * Location: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Nations per side: Austria (L), Westenland (M), Neu Bruchhausen (M) =11/3 = 4
 * Military: 60+10+10+5+5+3=93/20 = 5
 * Economy: 60+10+3+5=78/20 = 4
 * Locations Bonus: 2
 * Motive: +8
 * Austria: 7+4
 * Westenland : 6
 * Neu Bruchhausen: 6
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Expansion: +0
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops:
 * Chance:
 * Population: +8 +20
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops:

Wolof (Defender)
Total: +41
 * Location: +25
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Nations per side: Wolof (L) = 5
 * Military: 20, 0
 * Economy: 20, 0
 * Locations Bonus: 0
 * Infrastructure:
 * Motive: 9-5-10
 * Expansion: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Chance:
 * Population: +6
 * Recent Wars:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Troops

Discussion
Wolof's mil and eco shouldn't be 20/20, but 6 and 7 and his infra should be 7. Although they also divide by two. And with that said, you probably conquer it in one turn. Sky out <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 15:28, September 22, 2014 (UTC)

No their scores are still 6 7 and 7 no division. their division was already done before hand

Wu (Attacker)
Total: 116
 * Location: +25 +20 +15 +5= 65/4=16.25 = 16
 * Location Bonus: +21
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Wu(L), Shanghai(LV), Philippines(LV), Spain(L) = +14/4 = 3.5 = +4
 * Military Development: +20 (Wu), +10(Shanghai) +20(Philippines), +20(Spain) = +103/4 = +26
 * Military mods: +10(Hasnt lost any of previous 3 wars),+10(Naval dominance),+5(More Total Troops),+5(Nation fully mobilized),+3(Moderately sized armed forces)
 * Economic Development: +20, +10, +20, +20 = +88/4 = +22
 * Economic mods: +10(Much larger economy), +5(Larger colonial empire), +3(Economic golden age)
 * Expansion: -5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: +9, +3, +3, +3 = +26/4= 6.5 = +7
 * Motive Modifiers: +4, +4
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count:
 * UTC:  =
 * Total:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population: +8 +2 = +10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 220,000/75,000 = +3
 * Recent Wars:

Chinese rebels (Defender)
Total: 67
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:+0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Chinese Rebels (L) = +5
 * Military Development: 4 = 0
 * Economic Development: 4  = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: +10 = +10
 * Motive: 9
 * Motive Modifiers: +9 +4
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 12:40 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) = 94.0605713673
 * Nation Age: =-5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 75,000/220,000
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * 116 to 67... i believe weve won resoundingly this case is closed

Discussion
Josh asked me to do the algo for him we won resoundingly i see no issues here.

It would be nice to see a little more documentations (reasoning) for the numbers used. Otherwise, no issues. Saamwiil, the Humble 03:10, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

Question about picking nations
Do i have to pick a nation or can i create one. User:Likercat (talk) 11:20, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

You should probably just pick one. Mscoree (talk) 12:03, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

But i have seen people making other nations, like Rex made Livonia and Kiagamunt Band. User:Likercat (talk) 09:04, September 26, 2014 (UTC)

Rex, as far as I know, didn't make Livonia and the other is a tribe that exists in the region. <font color="#191970"> I am on the edge...  The EdgeofNight ╚╩o.o╩╝    11:22, September 26, 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. That region was called Livonia in OTL, and had several nations of that name throughout its history. I remade it through moderator event and then he played as it. His newest nation appears to be a tribe. If you can find evidence of a tribe in an area you can play as them, but you cannot just make up some fantasy nation. Mscoree (talk) 12:19, September 26, 2014 (UTC)

From what I've seen, if you want a tribal nation, you just have to prove that it exists and if it isn't in colonial territory (Ex. Powhattan - Rome). You also need to provide a map, which also must be a plausible size. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 11:58, September 26, 2014 (UTC)

brb
Will be inactive for a few weeks so don't kill off Yemen. Swank, I want you to assist Yemen in killing those blacks btw RexImperio (talk) 20:23, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

Derogatory statements such as "killing those blacks," even in context of a Map Game are not allowed. Please refrain from doing so in the future. Consider this your first and only warning. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 23:51, September 26, 2014 (UTC)

League of Gichigamee (Attacker)
Total: 134
 * Location: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Nehilaw (L), Nemaska (LV), Chisasibi(LV), Ashinaabeg(L), Bodewamik (L) =  +4 -3 (Leading vassals) = +1
 * Military Development: Nehilaw (L) +16, Nemaska (LV) +20, Chisasibi(LV) +20, Ashinaabeg(L) +4, Bodewamik (L) +4 =  64/5 = 13 = +13
 * Military mods: +10 (Hasn’t lost any of previous 3 wars), +10(Naval dominance),+5 (More Total Troops),+5 (Nation fully mobilized),-2 (Small army)
 * Economic Development: Nehilaw (L) +14, Nemaska (LV) +20, Chisasibi(LV) +20, Ashinaabeg(L) +4, Bodewamik (L) +4 = 62/5 = +12
 * Economic mods: +5 (Larger economy), +5(Larger trade)
 * Expansion: -5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: +5, +5, +5, +5, +5 = +25/5= +5
 * Motive Modifiers: +4, +6
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit count:555
 * UTC: 8:21
 * Total:555/16*pi (3.14159265359) =  108.9739
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +7 +2 = +10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 20,000/7000 = +3
 * Recent Wars:

Twightee (Defender)
Total: 61
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:+0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Twightee (L) = +5
 * Military Development: 4 = 0
 * Economic Development: 4  = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: +10 = +10
 * Motive: +5
 * Motive Modifiers: -5
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit count: 555
 * UTC: 8:21
 * Total:555/16*pi (3.14159265359) =  108.9739
 * Nation Age: =0
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: +0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
((134/(61+134))*2)-1 = 0.3745897435 (0.37435897435)*(1-1/(2 x 1) = 0.18717948717. The war will last one year, enabling the League to take 18%.

Raigama (and Allies)

 * Location: 20 (Next to Location of War)
 * Tactical Advantage: 5 (Using Siege Equipment)
 * Nations Per Side on the War: Raigama (L), Kotte (LV), Netherlands (S), Delhi (S), Urdustan (L), Orissa (LV), Vijaynagar (LV) = 23/7 = 3
 * Military Development = 60 + 25 = 75/17 = 4
 * ​20 (Raigama)
 * 20 (Kotte)
 * 20 (Urdustan)
 * 10 (Naval Dominance)
 * 10 (Has not lost three previous wars)
 * 5 (More total troops than the enemy)
 * Economic = 60 + 10 = 70/4 = 18
 * ​20 (Raigama)
 * 20 (Kotte)
 * 20 (Urdustan)
 * 5 (Larger Economy)
 * 5 (Larger Trade)
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 15 + 18 + 9 = 42/7 = 6
 * Raigama = 15
 * ​3 (Economic (Gains Land) = Raigama
 * 5 (Taking terrority of similar culture) = Raigama
 * 7 (To enforce political hegemony) = Raigama
 * ​Others = '18
 * 3 (Aid Ally) = Others (x6)
 * ​Modifiers = 9
 * 4 (Non-Democratic Nation)
 * 5 (High Troop Morale)
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit count = 216
 * UTC Time = 3:18 AM = 3*1*8 = 24
 * Math: 216/24 * pi = 28.26
 * Nation Age: 5 (Mature Nation)
 * Population: 28
 * 8 (8-Digit Population of Leaders)
 * 20 (More than 10 times greater)
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 216,200/7,500 = 29
 * ​Raigama = 13,500
 * Kotte = 2,700
 * Urdustan and Vassals = 200,000
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Total: 129

Jaffna

 * Location: 25 (At the location)
 * Tactical Advantage: 1 (No High Ground/Ambush)
 * Nations per side: Jaffna (L) = 5/1 = 5
 * Military Development: 12 + 5 = 17,0
 * ​12 (Jaffna)
 * 10 (Has not lost three previous wars)
 * -2 (Nation has small armed forces)
 * ​-3 (Smaller armed forces)
 * ​Economy: 6 - 2 = 4,0
 * ​6 (Jaffna)
 * -2 (Smaller Economy)
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5 + 0 = 5/1 = 5
 * 5 (Defending heartland from non-crippling attack)
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count = 216
 * UTC Time = 3:18 AM = 3*1*8 = 24
 * Math: 216/24 * pi = 28.260
 * Nation Age: 5 (Mature Nation)
 * Population: 6 (6-Digit Population)
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Jaffna = 7,500
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Total: 60

Results
((129/(60+120))*2)-1 = 43.3

43.3*(1-1/(2*3)) = 36.083%

This means Raigama and its Allies will be able to topple the Jaffnan government in 3 years.

Discussion
(Help me correct this algo, or tell me if you think it is fine)

Spain (Attacker)
Total: 129
 * Location: +20 +20 +15 +15 +15 +15 = +17
 * Location Bonus: +21
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Spain(L), Italy(L), Morocco (L), Lombardy(L) Savoy (LV) Genoa (LV) = +4
 * Military Development: +20 (Spain), +20(Morocco) +20(Italy), +20(Lombardy) +20 (Savoy) +20 (Genoa) = +153/7 = +22
 * Military mods: +10(Hasnt lost any of previous 3 wars),+10(Naval dominance),+5(More Total Troops),+5(Nation fully mobilized),+3(Moderately sized armed forces)
 * Economic Development: +20, +20, +20, +20 +20 +20 = +138/7 = +20
 * Economic mods: +10(Much larger economy), +5(Larger colonial empire), +3(Economic golden age)
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: n/a
 * Motive: +7 (hegemony) +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 = 38/6 = +6
 * Motive Modifiers: +4, +4, +4, +4
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count:
 * UTC:  =
 * Total:
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +8 +20 = +28
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 70,000/55,000 = +1
 * Recent Wars: -2 (Spain vs Wu Rebels)

Algiers (Defender)
Total: 59
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:+0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Algiers (L) = +5
 * Military Development: 7 = 0
 * Economic Development: 7  = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: +4 = +4
 * Motive: 9 +4 =+13
 * Motive Modifiers: +4
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 12:40 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) = 94.0605713673
 * Nation Age: = -5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 55,000/70,000 = +0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * 129 to 59

Discussion
Do i even need too???

id like to return to the game as the netherlands
if this is permited i am finally in a position were i can With Blood and Iron (talk) 15:18, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

seeing as trollis hasnt posted in several turns id like to assume control of the netherlands next turn. With Blood and Iron (talk) 16:08, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

I was actually just away the last week. Our previous deal with you playing as my colony is still on though right? Tr0llis (talk) 19:02, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

Dacia (Attacker)
Total: 75
 * Location: 15+15+15+15 = 15
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Dacia (L), East Hungary (L), Halych (LV), Kiev (LV) = 16/11=1
 * Military Development: +20 (Dacia) +20(E. Hungary) +20(Halych) +20(Kiev)+33(Mods) =113/43=3
 * Military mods: +10(Hasnt lost any of previous 3 wars),+10(Naval dominance),+5(More Total Troops),+5(Nation fully mobilized),+3(Moderately sized armed forces)
 * Economic Development: +20 +20 +20 +20 +18= 98/56=3
 * Economic mods: +10(Much larger economy), +5(Larger trade empire), +3(Economic golden age)
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: n/a
 * Motive: 37/4=9
 * Dacia:7+4
 * E. Hungary:3+4
 * Halych:3+4
 * Kiev:3+4
 * Motive Modifiers: +5 morale
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count:
 * UTC: =
 * Total:
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +8 +10 = +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 70,000/15,000 = +5
 * Number of Ships: 120/30=4
 * Recent Wars:

Yemeni Africa (Defender)
Total: 48
 * Location: 25+25+20=23
 * Location Bonus:+0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Yemen (L), Iritrea (LV), Al Somal (LV)= 11/16=0
 * Military Development: = 16+16+16-5=43
 * Military Mods: -5(Much Smaller Armed forces)
 * Economic Development: = 6+16+16-2=36
 * Economic Mods: -2(Smaller Economy)
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: 22
 * Motive:22/3=7
 * Yemen:5+4
 * Iritrea:5+4
 * Al-Somal:5+4
 * Motive Modifiers:-5
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: =
 * Total:
 * Nation Age: = -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 15,000/70,000 = +0
 * Number of Ships: 30/120=0
 * Recent Wars: -15 concurrent war,-2 recent war
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
48 vs 75 ((75/123)*2)-1=0.2195 (21.95%)*(1-(1/(2*2))=16.46%

Discussion
16.46% of All Yemeni Lands Fall in 2 Years

282+110+3090+25+3=African 3510

16619+155+24+5=Arabian 16803

Total: 20313

20313*0.1646 = 3344 pixels

And as both African states are Vassals and therefore are 1 Pixel Won = 2 Pixels Taken both can be taken. Along with trade rights, etc.

Sincerely, and with some measure of regret: Stephanus rex (talk) 01:28, October 2, 2014 (UTC)

Let's ignore the fact that I absolutely dislike Dacia attacking Yemen, I do have to ask, how is Dacia getting golden economic age? Sure it's got stuff going for it, but I'm not sure if it's really 'golden'. Also your tactical advantage should be 6 not 7 since most of your army is probably arriving by sea. And I'm not even sure if your economy is 'much larger' with the UIN and stuff Yemen isn't really an economical wreck. That's it for now. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 13:24, October 2, 2014 (UTC)

Ok Sky, I will give you the Golden Age and Tactical, as I used Feud's as a base, and added 5 for siege. Also Yemen is being attacked by several of the UIN states, and has less than 1/5th my population; and much of their's is nomadic herders, and seeing as a large portion of Yemen is Arabian Desert I would say Dacia has a much larger economy.

Yemen iirc has Iritriyan gold desposits and trades with european nations (like Croatia) and being in multiple wars doesn't drain the economy instantly. So I still think it should be just larger economy. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 13:14, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

How are you transporting all those troops and supplis for the war? The cannal should only allow small ships? Saamwiil, the Humble 08:20, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Tibet
Total: 48
 * Location: 20 (Looking at Lhasa on a map, it looks this distance from their targets of Ladakh and Kangra)
 * Location BONUS: N/A
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Tibet (L), Nepal (MCV) , Chutiya (MCV) , Shan States (MVC) = 3.5 = 4
 * Military Development: (Scar needs to input this)
 * Military Modifiers: -2?
 * Nation is fully mobilized for war: +5?
 * Much Smaller Armed Forces: -5
 * Nation has a small armed forces: -2?
 * Economic Development: (Scar needs to input this)
 * Economic Modifiers: -2
 * Smaller Economy: -2
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: n/a
 * Motive: 3 - 3 =0
 * Tibet: Economic: +3
 * Nepal: Aiding Ally: +3
 * Chutiya: Aiding Ally: +3
 * Shan States: Aiding Ally: +3
 * Motive Modifiers: -3 (Until chance is done)
 * Mostly Non-Democratic Nations: -3
 * High or Low Morale: +/- 6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 2,206
 * UTC: 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * Total: 2,206 / 7 = 315.1428571429 * pi = 990.05 0 4848313
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: +7 (1.8 million was the agreed upon amount?)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 20,000 (5,000 more than Edge's count)
 * Recent Wars: 0

Indian League
Total: 149
 * Location: 23 (Average between Kangra, Ladakh, and Multan)
 * Location BONUS:
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: Kangra (L), Ladakh (L), Multan (L), Sindh (MC), Dhundara (MC), Urdustan (MC), Lanka (SC) = 4.85 = 5
 * Military Development: 100 + 8 = 108
 * Kangra: 14
 * Ladakh: 14
 * Multan: 14
 * Sindh: 14
 * Dhundara: 14
 * Urdustan: 10
 * Lanka: 20
 * ​Military Modifiers: 8
 * More Total Troops Than Enemy: +5
 * Nation is Fully Mobilized For War: +5
 * Moderately Sized Armed Forces: +3
 * Economic Development: 100 + 15 = 115
 * Kangra: 14
 * Ladakh: 14
 * Multan: 14
 * Sindh: 14
 * Dhundara: 14
 * Urdustan: 10
 * Lanka: 20
 * ​Economic Modifiers: 15
 * Much Larger Economy: +10
 * Larger Trade: +5
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: 18 
 * Kangra: 6
 * Ladakh: 6
 * Multan: 6
 * Motive: 4.7 = 5 + 3 = 8
 * Kangra: Defending Core/Heartland from possibly fatal attack: +9
 * Ladakh: 'Defending Core/Heartland from possibly fatal attack: +9
 * Multan: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Sindh: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Dhundara: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Urdustan: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Lanka: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Motive Modifiers: +3
 * Mostly Non-Democratic Nations: -3
 * High Morale: +6
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit count: 2,206
 * UTC: 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * Total: 2,206 / 7 = 315.1428571429 * pi = 990.0 5 04848313
 * Nation Age: 4 (Dangit Dhundara)
 * Population: 8 + 20 = 28
 * ​More than ten times pop: +20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 940,000 / 20,000 = 47
 * Urdustan: 250,000
 * Ladakh: 45,000
 * Kangra: 45,000
 * Multan: 250,000
 * Sindh: 200,000
 * Dhundara: 150,000
 * Recent Wars: 0

Disscussion
I know that Scar is stupid enough to attack India, but who is stupid enough to actually let him do it? <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 12:18, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Sky, I wanted to attack 2 very small nations not the whole league. How else am I going to get land if nobody wants to PU with me.

Well, because you attacked one, now all of them are after you. I believe it's a part of the Indian League treaty. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 12:33, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

I told him it was a bad idea, because even if I didn't join, the Hindu nations would, but he kept propagating that he had over five million in population, and a 250,000 man military force when several others explicitly told him this is false. He wanted to stop the war, but as you know, you cannot start a war and cancel it when you think you won't win...However, in the effort of fairness, he was allowed to retcon it. At the time, only Fed and I were on, and we both decided our decisions were biased, so Crim was summoned. That is when my internet died. When I had returned, Scar said "I have a 40 to 60 % chance of winning I think", and then he left, so I'm assuming that Crim did not agree to his retcon, and Scar does not understand the gravity of what he has started. &#34;SO SAYETH THE EAGLE&#34; - Fascist Eagle ಠ_ಠ (talk) 12:40, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

I do hope someone finishes this algo so tibet finally falls. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 13:07, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Would I be considered a biased/unfair mod if I finished it? &#34;SO SAYETH THE EAGLE&#34; - Fascist Eagle ಠ_ಠ (talk) 03:38, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

If Urdustan is joining, Lanka is going to support the war effort. Hue hue hue. Don't mess with India. NicDonalds, Beginning Editor Talk  04:07, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

As an allied country of one Indian country and considering Lanka is joining, Ayutthaya is also going to support the war effort and I will also be able to open a front on the Shan states area owned by Tibet. Aternix!? 07:50, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

Eip I think it'd be fair, most people do their own algos however I do suggest a counter-attack <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 08:31, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

I filled out some parts of this. <font color="#191970"> I am on the edge...  The EdgeofNight ╚╩o.o╩╝ 

Prussia
Well, today was weird.

I heard something about scarlet outlaw wanting Poland and I freaked out. We all know of scars reputation in map games, and it's not so bright. But since we all know that MS is posting for Ed, I relaxed. This lead me to the attention of another nation, such as Prussia, which is seemingly open for the taking. Now, with all due respect, we don't want another scar touching this nation do we? This is why I ask to take Prussia under my wing to protect it from people like scar. A couple other mods have agreed, and MP Reme is ok under his wing, so I'm here just to get an approval from the other mods. - Saturn (Talk/Blog) 22:39, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

It looks like Prussia is taken. Mscoree (talk) 22:41, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

By whom? Saturn (Talk/Blog) 22:46, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

Nehilaw and Friends
Total: 154
 * Location: 20
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Nations: L(Nehilaw), L(Bodewamik),L(Aashinaabeg), L (Twightee), LV (Nemaska), LV (Chisasibi), LV (Gojijiwininag), LV (North Ojibwe), LV (Piankeshaw)  = 33 -3 (Leading vassals)30/9 = 3
 * Military Development: 78 +10 (No previous lost wars) +10 +5 (More total troops)+5 (Fully mobilized)= 108/2= +54
 * Economic Development: 78 +5 (Larger economy) +5(Larger trade/Colonial empire)= 84/2 = 42
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3= 31/9 = 3
 * Motive Modifiers:
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 583/18*pi (3.14159265359) = 101.75269
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8 + 2 = 10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 15,000+5000+5000/4000=4
 * Number of Ships:2/0=2
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Vassals and Puppets:

Illinikew Remnants
Total: 52
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: L(lllinikew) = 5
 * Military Development: 4-2=2/108=0
 * Economic Development: 4 -2= 2/84=0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Motive Modifiers: -6, -2 (Low morale, gov. not supported)
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 4000/15000=0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0
 * Multiple wars: 0

Result
((154/(52+154))*2)-1 = 0.49514563106 x 1.5 (Civil disarray rules) = 0.74271844659 (0.74271844659 )*(1-1/(2x1)) = 37.02  In one year, a government can be reestablished, but this time will be multiplied by 2 according to rules, meaning a two-year war.

Discussion
Feel free to edit. Shikata ga nai! 23:40, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

Imperium of Heaven (Aggressor)

 * Location: Next to the location of the war (+20) = +20
 * Tactical advantage: Open fields (+1), siege equipment (+5) = +5
 * Nations: Imperium of Heaven (L+5) = +5/1 = +5
 * Military development: Development (+14), more troops (+5), moderately sized armed forces (+3) = +22
 * Economic development: Development (+0), much larger economy (+10) = +10
 * Motive: Enforcing political hegemony (+7), non-democratic government supported by people (+4), morale high (+5) = +16
 * Chance: (9980/(1*2*6))*pi = 2612.75789024 = +7
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Population: 3,750,000 (+7) = +7
 * Recent wars: +0 = +0
 * Participation: +10 = +10
 * Number of troops: 32,000/10,000 = +3.2 = +3
 * Treaty breaking: +0 = +0
 * Popular revolt bonus: Total*1.5
 * Total: +90*1.5 = 135

Mongol Khanate (Defender)

 * Location: At the location of the war (+25) = +25
 * Tactical advantage: +0 = +0
 * Nations: Mongol Khanate (L+5) = +5/1 = +5
 * Military development: Development (+0), small armed forces (-2), much smaller armed forces (-5), nation was not initially mobilized (-10) = -17
 * Economic development: Development (+2), smaller economy (-2) = +0
 * Infrastructure: Development (+0) = +0
 * Expansion: +0 = +0
 * Motive: Defending from fatal attack (+9), non-democratic nation supported by people (+4) = +13
 * Chance: (74/(1*2*6))*pi = 19.3731546971 = +3
 * Nation age: Mature nation (+5) = +5
 * Population: 3,250,000 (+7) = +7
 * Recent wars: +0 = +0
 * Participation: +10 = +10
 * Number of troops: 10,000/32,000 = 0.3125 = +0
 * Treaty breaking: +0 = +0
 * Total: +51

Result
Total and decisive Imperial victory. Mongolia is overrun as the capital falls within two years. Mongolia is incorporated into the Imperium of Heaven.

Mods are the only ones allowed to grant the 1.5 modifier, so I don't think you have the right to use it. Moreover you can only have one motive in the algo (either choose hegemony or culture). Also development scores are divided now (larger divided by smaller side) and NPC/inactive nations expand by the infra>eco>mil prefrence, meaning Mongolia'd have 7 infra, 7 eco and 6 mil scores. Also the result should be calculated and the amount of years lasting should be there too. I have no more complaints, for now. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 09:59, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Oh and I highly doubt that you have a much larger economy. Larger perhaps, much larger no. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 11:50, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

...Mongolia is a player nation. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 12:53, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Can confirm that Mongolia is a player nation, and that Pita does have the 1.5 modifier. The rest, I don't know.

Carry on.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 17:01, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Tibet
Total: 54
 * Location: 25
 * Location BONUS: N/A
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: Tibet (L), Nepal (MCV) , Chutiya (MCV) , Shan States (MVC) = 3.5 = 4
 * Military Development: 74 - 2 = 72/Alot = 0
 * Military Modifiers: -2?
 * Nation is fully mobilized for war: +5
 * Much Smaller Armed Forces: -5
 * Nation has a small armed forces: -2
 * Economic Development: 74 - 2 = 72/alot = 0
 * Economic Modifiers: -2
 * Smaller Economy: -2
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: 6 (I assume)
 * Motive: 4.5 = 5 - 9 = -4
 * Tibet: Defending Core/Heartland from Possibly Fatal Attack: +9
 * Nepal: Aiding Ally: +3
 * Chutiya: Aiding Ally: +3
 * Shan States: Aiding Ally: +3
 * Motive Modifiers: -9 
 * Mostly Non-Democratic Nations: -3
 * Low Morale: - 6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 2,206
 * UTC: 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * Total: 2,206 / 7 = 315.1428571429 * pi = 990.05 0 4848313
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: +7 (1.8 million was the agreed upon amount?)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 20,000
 * Recent Wars: 0

Indian League
Total: 153
 * Location: 21 (Average between Kangra, Ladakh, Jaunpur, and Multan)
 * Location BONUS: N/A
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: Kangra (L), Ladakh (L), Multan (L), Jaunpur (L), Sindh (MC), Dhundara (MC), Urdustan (MC), Lanka (SC) = 4.92 = 5
 * Military Development: 116 + 8 = 124/72 = 1.7 = 2
 * Kangra: 14
 * Ladakh: 14
 * Multan: 14
 * Sindh: 14
 * Jaunpur: 14
 * Dhundara: 14
 * Urdustan: 12
 * Lanka: 20
 * ​Military Modifiers: 8
 * More Total Troops Than Enemy: +5
 * Nation is Fully Mobilized For War: +5
 * Moderately Sized Armed Forces: +3
 * Economic Development: 116 + 15 = 131/72 = 1.8 = 2
 * Kangra: 14
 * Ladakh: 14
 * Multan: 14
 * Sindh: 14
 * Dhundara: 14
 * Jaunpur: 14
 * Urdustan: 12
 * Lanka: 20
 * ​Economic Modifiers: 15
 * Much Larger Economy: +10
 * Larger Trade: +5
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Motive: 3.5 = 4 + 3 = 7
 * Kangra: Economic + 3
 * Ladakh: Economic: +3
 * Multan: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Sindh: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Dhundara: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Urdustan: Enforcing Political Hegemony: +7
 * Lanka: 'Aiding Ally: +3
 * Motive Modifiers: +3
 * Mostly Non-Democratic Nations: -3
 * High Morale: +6
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit count: 2,206
 * UTC: 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * Total: 2,206 / 7 = 315.1428571429 * pi = 990.0 5 04848313
 * Nation Age: 4 (Dangit Dhundara)
 * Population: 8 + 20 = 28
 * ​More than ten times pop: +20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 1,310,000 / 20,000 = 65
 * Urdustan: 350,000
 * Ladakh: 55,000
 * Kangra: 55,000
 * Multan: 300,000
 * Sindh: 300,000
 * Dhundara: 250,000
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussion
I dont think I was added as an aiding ally. Aternix!? 23:27, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

He didnt add you in the war cause he didnt want you involved in the war. You would need a seperate Algo and would need to fight Urdustan and Spain for the Shan State.

How come Lanka got involved? And I also never read about Spain fighting in the war. Aternix!? 23:59, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Spain and Urdustan have an agreement regarding the Shan State.

Imperium of Heaven (Aggressor)

 * Location: Next to the location of the war (+15) = +20
 * Tactical advantage: No defenses, open fields (+1), siege equipment (+5) = +6
 * Nations: Imperium of Heaven (L+5) = +5/1 = +5
 * Military development: Development (+14), more troops (+5), moderately sized armed forces (+5), fully mobilized (+5) = 29/2 = +14.5
 * Economic development: Development (+0), much larger economy (+10) = 10/4 = +2.5
 * Motive: Attacking to enforce political hegemony (+7), non-democratic government supported by people (+4), morale high (+5) = +16
 * Chance: (9,986/(2*1*3))*pi = 5228.65737312 = +7
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Population: 8,000,000 (+7), five times larger population (+10) = +17
 * Recent wars: Leadership (-2) = -2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 25,000/3,000 = 8.333 = +8.5
 * Treaty breaking: +0
 * Revolt bonus: Total*1.5
 * Total: 99.5*1.5 = 149.25

Uyghur Khaganate (Defender)

 * Location: At the location of the war (+25) = +25
 * Tactical advantage: +0
 * Nations: Uyghur Khanate (L+5) = +5/1 = +5
 * Military development: Development (+7), small armed forces (-2), much smaller armed forces (-5), not initially mobilized (-10) = -10/2 = -5 = +0
 * Economic development: Development (+6), smaller economy (-2) = +4/10 = +0
 * Infrastructure development: +3
 * Motive: Defending heartland from possibly fatal attack (+9) = +9
 * Chance: +3
 * Nation age: Mature nation (+5) = +5
 * Population: 1,500,000 (+7) = +7
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 3,000/25,000 = 0.12 = +0
 * Treaty breaking: +0
 * Total: +67

Dacia (Attacker)
Total: 72
 * Location: 20+20= 20
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: Dacia (L), East Hungary (L)=10/10=0
 * Military Development: +20 (Dacia) +20(E. Hungary) +23(Mods) = 63/15=4
 * Military mods: +10(Hasnt lost any of previous 3 wars),+5(More Total Troops),+5(Nation fully mobilized),+3(Moderately sized armed forces)
 * Economic Development: +20 +20 +15= 55/14=4
 * Economic mods: +10(Much larger economy), +5(Larger trade empire)
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: n/a
 * Motive: 18/2=9
 * Dacia:7+4
 * E. Hungary:3+4
 * Motive Modifiers:
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count:
 * UTC: =
 * Total:
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +8 +10 = +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 70,000/15,000 = +5
 * Recent Wars:-4

Kiev (Defender)
Total: 41x1.5=61.5
 * Location: 25 = 25
 * Location Bonus:+0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Kiev (L)5/10=0
 * Military Development: = 20-5=15=0
 * Military Mods: -5(Much Smaller Armed forces)
 * Economic Development: = 16-2=14=0
 * Economic Mods: -2(Smaller Economy)
 * Expansion: n/a
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive:9
 * Kiev:5+4
 * Motive Modifiers:
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: =
 * Total:
 * Nation Age: = -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 15,000/70,000 = +0
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
72 > 61.5 A large battle in Kiev ends in the crushing defeat of a Kievan army. The leaders of the revolt are captured and impaled to serve as an example to the world. Kiev is stripped of its southern regions for compensation, as that territory has a large Romanian population. Stephanus rex (talk) 02:24, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
Both of your northern vassals are revolting, not just Kiev. Mscoree (talk) 10:27, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

I know. Stephanus rex (talk) 22:21, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

So you need to add them both. Mscoree (talk) 22:36, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

And if this army is only in Kiev? Stephanus rex (talk) 22:54, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah uhh if there are 2 nations per side then both get 1 point and I think Kiev's motive would be 9 not 5. I think that's it <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 08:08, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

There's two states who raised troops, regardless of where the troops are located. Mscoree (talk) 10:25, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

So 2 vassals ending their vassalage, and then my invasion of ONE of those states means I am fighting both? Because if its one rebelion then it should be one state. Stephanus rex (talk) 22:11, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

I considered putting this in the original comment but decided not to. I was assuming you wanted to keep both through this algorithm. If you are only invading one that is fine, just know that you can only take one. Mscoree (talk) 22:25, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

I only have to take one, see my Diplomacy in 1648. Stephanus rex (talk) 23:22, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

In that case it's fine. Mscoree (talk) 23:28, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Japan (Attacker)
​*+15 close from the location of the war Result: 93
 * +3 Minor Power
 * ​+5 Supported attack
 * Military Development: +6
 * ​Has Naval dominance: +10
 * More total troops than enemy: +5
 * Economic Development: +4
 * Larger Economy: +5 (Added Before Division)
 * Expansion: -3 (Japanese Unification War)
 * Larger Economy: +5 (added before divsion)
 * Geographic modifiers
 * N/A
 * Motive
 * Attacking to enforce political hegemony: +7
 * Modifiers
 * Non-democratic Government supported by people: + 4
 * Troop Morale high +5
 * Population
 * 22,000,000/1,500,000 = 20
 * Number of Troops: +2
 * 6,000/3,000 = 2
 * Recent Wars: -2 (Second Japanese Unification War)
 * Chance: 7
 * 755 = x
 * 04:01 = 4 = y
 * 755 (x) / 4 (y) = 188.75 x π = 592.675

Aniu (Defender)
Result: 51
 * ​+25 At the location of the war
 * ​+1 No Power
 * ​+3 Ambush/Non conventional warfare
 * Military Develpoment: 7.0 / 2 = 3.5 NPC Bonus
 * Smaller armed forces: -3
 * Economic Bounus: 7.0 / 2 = 3.5 (NPC Bonus)
 * Smaller Economy: -2 (added before divison)
 * Infrastructure: 7.0 / 2 = 3.5 (NPC Bonus)
 * Geographic Modifiers
 * N/A
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10 (pre-nuclear era)
 * Modifiers
 * Non-democratic Government supported by people: + 4
 * Population
 * 1,500,000/22,000,000 = 0
 * Number of Troops: +0.5
 * 3,000/6,000 = 0.5
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
((93+5) / 91 + (51-2)) = 50.05

Japan topples the Ainu In 2 years, and turns the nation into a vassal.

Discussion
Did the algo all by myself using feuds new algo. This is my first algo so don't murder me if I get something wrong. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 04:30, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

Pskov (Attacker)
Total: 55
 * Location: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Attacker: +1
 * Siege Engines: +5
 * Nations per side: Pskov(L), Narva(LV) = 9/2=5
 * Military: = 1
 * Score: 36+4
 * Less Total Troops: -3
 * Moderately Sized Army : 3
 * Naval Dominance: 10
 * Calculation: 40+10+3-3/(negative) = 50/43=1
 * Economy: 1
 * Score: 36+0
 * Larger Economy: 5
 * Economic Golden Age: 3
 * Calculation: 36+3+5/38 = 44/43 = 1
 * Locations Bonus: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Pskov: 7(hegemony)
 * Narva: 3(aid)
 * +5(democratic)
 * +5 High Morale
 * Avg = 20/2 = 10
 * Expansion: +0
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Pskov: -5
 * Narva; -5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 30 000, 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Number of Posts: 51
 * UTC time: 20:45 = 2*4*5=40
 * Calculation: 40% of 51 = 20.4
 * 20.4*pi = 64.0884901
 * Population: +7
 * base:+7
 * Modifier: +0
 * Recent Wars: +0

Prussia (Defender)
Total: 66
 * Location: +25
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Nations per side: Prussia(L), Livonia(L), Courland(LV), Osel-Wiek(LV)= 18/4=5
 * Military: 32+3=45,0
 * Economy: 38+5=43,0
 * Infrastructure:
 * Motive: 5
 * Prussia: 9
 * Livonia: 5
 * Estland: 5
 * Courland: 3
 * Osel-Wiek: 3
 * Low morale(low motive, lower dev scores): -6
 * Non-democratic coalition: -3
 * 25/5=5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits: 3332
 * Time: 10:23 = 1*2*3 = 6
 * Calculation:6% of 3332=199.92
 * 199.92*pi = 628.067203
 * Population: +9
 * Number: +7
 * Modifier: +2
 * Recent Wars: +0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Troops = 30,000/30 000, 3

Result
Pskov Wins, is of Obvious,

Pskov can take at most  ((67/106)-0.5)*2*100% = 20% of Prussia

After 3 years of warfare this ammounts to 18.00% Map

Discussion
Prussia has development scores, I know that for a fact, I'm also sure they would have a larger economy. I am that guy (talk) 02:48, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Not really... During the shitstorms that engulfed Scandinavia, Livonia and Prussia Pskov gained fame and favour in the west, pretty much he has relations with France, Scandinavia, The Dutch (if i recall correctly that being old) Spain and Britannia (not sure of this one either) Prussia has only with austria, you and poland). He's probably larger due to being relatively more estable. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 03:48, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

I do too believe Prussia should have scores, a larger army and probably Polish aid depending on that treaty they signed. Also Pskov might have grown, but Prussia has larger overseas territory. Let's not forget that. So naval dominance might be far-fetched. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 08:11, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Also Pskov has fairly recently acquired more possessions, the whole golden age might be a bit totally wrong. I understand Lx overestimating Pskov, but Sine is confusing me. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 08:13, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well I wasn't expecting this. Since I have been posting I should have scores right? Harvenard2 (talk) 10:23, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Prussia posted every turn "We dedicate this turn to economy". Which means that they get all Economy, and No Military. That's just jhow it works-Lx (leave me a message) 11:26, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

A quick search determined that to be false. He has alternated for the most part. Mscoree (talk) 11:45, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Also Prussia should get the +5 Larger colonial empire bonus. And Pskov can't get high morale since Prussia's side has higher dev scores in economy. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 12:08, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Im not going to waste my time counting pixels in colonies. If you noticed, that +5 is given to the largest colonial/trade empire. take that into consideration, and the propper recipiant is clear. Also, Ms, I took your advice and rechecked the military and econ counts for prussia, this time in more detail(instead of seeing copy-paste past few turns and asssuming copy paste for all), and I fixed the scores, thanks for pointing that out. High morale only requires a higher score in one category. Its the low morale that requires lower in both, and triggers for any of the requirements, while high morale only requires one category but also high motive (>5) and high chance (>4)-Lx (leave me a message) 13:13, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

When I get home I will count the pixels for you, and I will check for other stuff. I noticed a few things in the algorithm that need to be fixed, on both sides. Mscoree (talk) 14:46, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Okay I added some fixes: Mscoree (talk) 19:20, October 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Prussia has a larger colonial empire, approximately 2000 pixels versus Pskov's 500.
 * Nations per side is divided by number of nations.
 * Added Prussia's expansion, five and five.
 * Added Prussia's motives.
 * I have never seen the motives divided before modifiers, and I ask for confirmation on this. I am almost positive modifiers go in first, as that's how it has always been done, but Feud has forgotten about rules before.
 * Prussia's nation age is zero since Prussia last changed its government in 1594, and its vassals last changed its government after the Livonian War. Pskov remains a -5 because of the war in Narva.

The attack as it stands is nonfatal, giving prussia a +5 in motive. Alright, Prussia's age is zero, fine, sure, hmmm...didnt think the livonia war was that long ago, whatever, the +5 is for bigger trade/colonial empire, so eve if the colonies are nominally bigger, Pskov survived and thrived on its trade empire, which is bigger than livonia and its colonies by far, so we should get the point...PRussia only expanded stuff 9 turns before the war, and I believe it was 5 for economy and 4 for military. Pskov had no alliance with Prussia to begin with. Fighting on the same side of a war does not constitute being an ally...for the ammount of troops you need to ask whoever owns Prussia, so for not I think that's good. Unless Prussia wants to leave Livonia to tis fate, I believe nondemocratic coalitions get -3, and Prussia is not going to die completely from this attack. I used the time and editcount when Harv edited here as his "akgnowledgement of war" for chance.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:15, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

We previously decided in practice that the colonial empire bonus is calculated by number of pixels. I don't believe we'd make an exception for you, and as it stands pixels is the easiest, most neutral way of gauging size of colonial empire. They get the 9 simply because they are defending, and it is quite obvious that it is (attempted to be) fatal. You wrote just above this section that you planned to destroy them. That's as fatal as it gets. Just because at this moment the attack is no longer as severe does not change the intention; the motive remains the same. From what I could tell it appeared you had an alliance. I read a few past turns in which it was written that an alliance was accepted, right before your coordinated war efforts. They don't get nondemocratic coalition because this isn't a coalition. It's a single player nation. Mscoree (talk) 23:33, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

I put I'm killing prussia because that;s what the algo previously stated...defenders dont get an automatic +9 unless the attack would either 1. Kill their nation or 2. Kill their nation without it. That's what potentially fatal is. This attack is obviously not. This wont kill their nation. Also, if they arent a coalition, remove all the Leaders excluding Prussia, or I guess Livonia because that's where I would be taking territory from. Coalition Rules apply to any war with multiple leaders I believe. Nations do not "get the 9 simply because they are defending". that makes no sense...So anyway its like 20% or something. Pskov, as a trade republic, based on trade, with economies driven by trade and banking, such as myself, have a larger trade power than him and his colonies combined. Objectively. I have a larger "empire" from which to draw funds and the like through my trade networks, which include many of the colonies of Borealia.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:01, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

You specifically wrote in your turn that "Pskov must be the only True Nation that dominates the east Baltic", meaning you either plan to annex him or at least annex Livonia (or one of the states). That means if Prussia is not a 9, then Livonia is, so it's the same result and not worth arguing about in the slightest. Furthermore if it's not a 9, then you'd be happy annexing zero states if you win? Coalitions are about player nations. In no other war has any 1v1 warranted a coalition. States can draw from their vassal states, just like their internal vassals, and they are viewed as the sphere of their respective leaders. As I said above, colonial empire is measured by pixel count. I don't care if one pixel is more valuable over the other. The rules say "larger", and the mods have in the past interpreted that as pixel count. In fact that was used to your very advantage in the war with Livonia. Don't tell me you expect me to change the rule, a rule you previously fought for (or at least Non did to me), now that it is working against you. Mscoree (talk) 00:07, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

I dont think dominating a region is the same as owning the entire region. I'm talking about trade/colonial not colonial period. larger colonies do not mean larger trade and I dont remember at all stating that as a reason for me to get points. IN the Livonia war I also had a larger trade empire, regardless of pixels. And who edited the algo, none of what is changed makes any sense at all. My annexation priorities are as follows: Narva expansion+Bahamas, Tallin, and finally Riga. -Lx (leave me a message) 14:28, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Hamburg
Total: 181
 * Location: 20
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Nations per side: Hamburg (L), Mecklenburg (L), Holstein (L), Stade (LV), Münster (LV), Austria (L), Bohemia (L), Luxembourg (L), Silesia (LV), Lusatia (LV) = 42/10 = 4
 * Military Dev.: 190 + 10 + 5 + 5 = 210/5 = 42
 * Hamburg: 10
 * Mecklenburg: 20
 * Holstein: 20
 * Stade: 20
 * Münster: 20
 * Austria: 20
 * Bohemia: 20
 * Luxembourg: 20
 * Silesia: 20
 * Lusatia: 20
 * Economic dev.: 190 + 10 + 5 = 205/8 = 25.6 = ~26
 * Hamburg: 10
 * Mecklenburg: 20
 * Holstein: 20
 * Stade: 20
 * Münster: 20
 * Austria: 20
 * Bohemia: 20
 * Luxembourg: 20
 * Silesia: 20
 * Lusatia: 20
 * Motive: 7
 * Hamburg: 7 + 4
 * Mecklenburg: 3 + 4
 * Holstein: 3 + 4
 * Stade: 3
 * Münster: 3
 * Austria: 5 + 4
 * Bohemia: 3 + 4
 * Luxembourg: 3 + 4
 * Lusatia: 3
 * Silesia: 3
 * Chance:
 * Nation age: 5
 * Population: 8 + 10
 * Troops: 300,000/75,000 = 4
 * Ships: 500/10

Hesse/Westphalia
Total: 42
 * Location: 25
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Nations: Hesse (L), Trier (LV), Cologne (LV), Mainz (LV), Palatinate (LV) = 17-4 = 13/5 = 2
 * Military dev: 20 - 5 - 10 = 5 = 0
 * Hesse: 4
 * Trier: 4
 * Cologne: 4
 * Mainz: 4
 * Palantinate: 4
 * Economic dev: 10 - 2 = 8 = 0
 * Hesse: 2
 * Trier: 2
 * Cologne: 2
 * Mainz: 2
 * Palatinate: 2
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Motive: 7
 * Hesse: 9 + 4
 * Trier: 5
 * Cologne: 5
 * Mainz: 5
 * Palatinate: 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation age:0
 * Population: 7
 * Troops: 75,000/300,000
 * Ships: 10/500

Hispania (Attacker)
Total: TBD
 * Location: +20 (Spain) +20 (Italy) +20 (Lombardy) +20 (Modena) +20 (Ravenna) +20 (Savoy) +20 (Genoa) +20 (Croatia) +15 (Morocco)+20 (Hungary)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Attacker: +1
 * Siege Engines: +5
 * Nations per side: Spain(L), Italy(L), Lombardy(L), Morocco (L), Modena (LV), Ravenna (LV), Genoa (LV), Savoy (LV), Croatia (L), Hungary (L) = +3
 * Military: = +20 (Spain) +20 (Italy) +20 (Lombardy) +20 (Modena) +20 (Ravenna) +20 (Savoy) +20 (Genoa) +18 (Croatia) +20 (Hungary), +20 (Morocco) = 236
 * Moderately Sized Army : 3
 * Naval Dominance: 10
 * More total troops +10
 * Has not lost any of the last 3 wars: +10
 * Mobilized: +5
 * Economy: +20 (Spain) +20 (Italy) +20 (Lombardy) +20 (Modena) +20 (Ravenna) +20 (Savoy) +20 (Genoa) +18 (Croatia) +20 (Hungary) +20 (Morocco) : 213
 * Much Larger economy: +10
 * Larger trade/colonial empire: +5
 * Locations Bonus: +21
 * Motive:
 * Spain: +7 (Hegemony)
 * Italy: +3
 * Ravenna: +3
 * Modena: +3
 * Savoy: +3
 * Genoa: +3
 * Morocco: +3
 * Croatia: +5 (Similar culture)
 * Hungary: +3
 * Expansion: +0
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Spain: -5 (this is for the whole empire)
 * Croatia: -5
 * Hungary: -5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 278,000
 * Spain: 40,000 +10,000 from New Spain
 * Italy: 50,000
 * Lombardy: 25,000
 * Modena: 10,000
 * Ravenna: 6000
 * Genoa: 12,000
 * Savoy: 10,000
 * Morocco: 15,000
 * Croatia: 60,000
 * Hungary: 40,000
 * Total: 253,000
 * Chance: TBD
 * Population: +18
 * base:+8
 * Modifier: +10
 * Recent Wars: -2 (Croatian war)
 * Recent Wars: -2 (Croatian war)

Austria (Defender)
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Nations per side:
 * Military:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Motive:
 * Expansion:
 * Participation:
 * Chance: TBD
 * Population:
 * Number:
 * Modifier:
 * Recent Wars: +0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Troops =

Discussion
There could be more joiners as well as more than one front, MS please add what your going to add but do not touch my side of the algo at all for any reason. I will look over some of the stuff you put to make sure its all legit and will get neutral second opinions from someone (probably eip since hes in india)

Hungary should be L since it's in a PU not a vassal. Oh and hungary might have a taking back recently held land since austria proper took part of hungary. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 18:24, October 9, 2014 (UTC) P.s. Croatia doesnt get recent war penalty since it happened more than 15 years ago