Talk:The Great Peace (Map Game)

National War Score Phase
The Algorithm is divided into two major phases, the "National War Score Phase" and the "Combat Phase." A new National War Score Phase will be created at the beginning of every new year in the war, and shows the national willingness to fight. If the National War Score Phase has a nation in the negative, it will need to sue for peace or face a popular revolt against the war. Furthermore, the National War Score Phase will impact the morale of your troops in the Battle Phases.

Battle Phase
The "Battle Phase" is the algorithm that decides the outcome of a battle. There can be many Battle Phases in each year and they can represent anything from small skirmishes to clashes between army groups. The Battle Phase depends primarily on troop numbers and the relative effectiveness of the troops. Battle Phases can also be subdivided into Naval and Land battles, which have different algorithms.

National War Score Algorithm
Structure
 * Nation ( Year)
 * Total:
 * Population
 * Industry
 * Technology
 * Government
 * War Eagerness
 * War Weariness
 * Readiness
 * Fronts
 * War Progress

Population

 * Greater than 200 Million:20
 * Greater than 100 Million:10
 * Greater than 50 Million:5
 * Greater than 10 Million:3
 * Greater than 5 Million: 1
 * 5 Million or fewer: 0

Industry

 * Pre-Industrial:0
 * Proto-Industrial:2
 * Lightly Industrialized:4
 * Moderately Industrialized:7
 * Fully Industrialized:10

Technology

 * Highest Tier:5
 * High Tier:4
 * Middle Tier:3
 * Lower Tier:2
 * Lowest Tier:1

Government

 * Autocracy supported by the citizens:3
 * Democracy supported by the citizens:5
 * Autocracy not supported by the citizens:1
 * Democracy not supported by the citizens:-1

War Eagerness

 * Zealous Nationalism:10
 * Supported War:5
 * Un-Supported War:-2
 * Revolts:-5
 * Civil War:-20

War Weariness

 * Fully Supplied:5
 * Well Supplied:2
 * Rationing:0
 * Under Supplied:-2
 * Poorly Supplied:-5
 * Facing strategic bombing:-10
 * Starving:-20

Readiness

 * Armies in Position with Supplies Stockpiled:5
 * Armies in Position or Supplies Stockpiled:3
 * Armies Rushed to Position with Supplies Stockpiled:1
 * Armies Rushed to Position without Supplies Stockpiled:-1
 * Armies Unable to Reach Front:-3

Fronts

 * One Front:5
 * Two Fronts:0
 * Three Fronts:-5
 * Subtract 5 for each additional front

War Progress
As the war progresses each side should face challenges in preserving their National War Timer. Military victories are one way to prevent capitulation while defeats will weaken your score. For EVERY year the war drags on ALL nations involved will subtract 1 from their war timer. In addition, defeat on a front will subtract 3 from the score while victory will add 2 to the score. These are cumulative across all fronts meaning that if Germany is winning against France in one front, winning against Yugoslavia in another, and losing to the Soviets on a third it will incur a net loss/gain of zero for the year.

Final Calculation
Aside from the minor impact on moral the National War Score is used to determine when a country needs to capitulate. When the score reaches 0 or lower a country must surrender unconditionally.

Structure

 * Battle Name (Year)
 * Attacker
 * Total:
 * Troops:
 * Equipment:
 * Support:
 * Morale:
 * Experience:
 * Defensives: N/A
 * Defender
 * Total:
 * Troops:
 * Equipment:
 * Support:
 * Morale:
 * Experience:
 * Defensives:
 * Result:

Troops
Troops are the number of soldiers you have in the army group fighting on any given front. Troops are measured to the nearest thousands and constitute the backbone of the combat phase. Troop score is calculated by taking your overall number of troops and dividing by 1,000.

Equipment
Equipment represents the combat effectiveness of the weapons employed by a standard combat unit in your fielded army. This usually takes the form of small arms, artillery, armor, motorized, mechanized, and communications equipment. Equipment is a modifier score meaning that it has a base score of 1.00 to which the values are added.


 * Standard Small Arm
 * Modern Assault Rifles:1.00
 * Semi-automatic Rifles:0.50
 * Bolt-action Rifles:0.25
 * Civilian/Improvised Weapons:0.00
 * Motorization
 * Fully Motorized:0.60
 * Partially Motorized:0.20
 * Not Motorized:0.00
 * Mechanization
 * Fully Mechanized:0.75
 * Partially Mechanized:0.50
 * Not Mechanized:0.00
 * Battlefield Communications
 * Widespread radio:1.00
 * Company level radio:0.50
 * Regiment level radio:0.35
 * Scarce radio:0.20
 * Motorcycle:0.10
 * Horse:0.00
 * Runner:-0.10

Support
Support represents the strength of the specialty units supporting your standard combat groups. This usually takes the form of artillery, armor, and naval/aerial auxiliaries. Support is a modifier score meaning that it has a base score of 1.00 to which the values are added. (No more than one value can apply from each category, then add all of the values for each category to the base).
 * Artillery
 * Massive artillery support:0.30
 * Full artillery support:0.20
 * Moderate artillery support:0.10
 * Minimal artillery support:0.05
 * No artillery support:0.00
 * Armor
 * Full armor support:0.30
 * Moderate armor support:0.15
 * Minimal armor support:0.10
 * No armor support:0.00
 * Naval (If applicable)
 * Full naval support:0.15
 * Moderate naval support:0.10
 * Minimal naval support:0.05
 * No naval support:0.00
 * Aerial
 * Full aerial support:0.20
 * Moderate aerial support:0.15
 * Minimal aerial support:0.10
 * No aerial support:0.00

Morale
Morale represents the men's willingness to fight. Morale is critical to any fight and is dependent on both the National War Score Phase and the recent battles. Morale is a modifier score meaning that it has a base score of 1.00 to which the values are added. NOTE: If morale falls below 0, the army disbands or surrenders depending on the logical option.
 * National War Score
 * Less than half that of the enemy:-0.20
 * Less than that of the enemy:-0.05
 * Within 10 points of the enemy:0.00
 * Greater than that of the enemy:0.05
 * More than double that of the enemy:0.20
 * Positioning Penalties
 * Encircled:-0.30
 * Out of Supply:-0.50
 * Surrounded and Out of Supply:-0.90
 * Ideology
 * Communist (When defending):0.20
 * Fascist: (When attacking):0.20
 * Democratic/Monarchist:0.10
 * Conscription Laws
 * Volunteer Only:0.10
 * Limited Conscription:0.05
 * Mandatory Service:-0.05
 * Massive Conscription:-0.25
 * Specials (By Mod Approval Only)
 * Warrior Code(With mod approval):0.15
 * Reconquest of lost territories:0.10
 * Defense of homeland:0.15
 * Great Leader (By mod event):0.50
 * Glorious Last Stand (With mod approval):0.50

Experience
Experience is pretty self explainatory, but can be extremely influencial. Experience is dependent on recent wars and battles. Experence is a modifier score meaning that it has a base score of 1.00 to which the values are added.
 * Officers
 * Untrained:-0.50
 * Green:-0.10
 * Veteran(1-2 Battles):0.10
 * Experienced(1+ Wars):0.20
 * Non-Commissioned Officers
 * Untrained:-0.10
 * Green:-0.05
 * Veteran(1-2 Battles):0.20
 * Experienced(1+ Wars):0.30
 * Training
 * No training:-0.50
 * Minimal training:-0.10
 * Basic training(Reservists):0.00
 * Extensive training(Professional Army):0.20

Defensives
Defensives are pretty self-explanatory, they are physical barriers set up to protect troops from bombardment and fire. Defensives are the least complex section and have calculations built in. Entrenchments can be built by troops in place, while strategic lines require peacetime production and several years of work to build.
 * Light Entrenchments:1.05
 * Heavy Entrenchments:1.10
 * Strategic Line:1.35

Result
To calculate the total score on a front you multiply Troops, Equipment, Support, Morale, and Defensives together. This is the combat score for the front and will determine the overall strength of your forces on the front.

The Result calculation uses https://percentagecalculator.net/. Put the larger of the two results in the first blank of the second line, and the smaller in the second. This should yield a percentage of 100+. For every percent above 100%, the winning army can push 1 pixel into the territory of the loser.

Pre-Industrial

 * Mongolia
 * Afghanistan
 * The rest of the world

Proto-Industrial

 * Chinese States
 * India
 * Iran
 * Georgia
 * Armenia
 * Azerbijan
 * Thailand
 * Philipines
 * The rest of Latin America

Lightly Industrialize

 * Spain
 * Portugal
 * Greece
 * Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes
 * Hungary
 * Poland
 * Romania
 * Bulgaria
 * Red Russia
 * White Russia
 * Turkey
 * Mexico
 * Brazil
 * Argentina
 * South Africa

Moderately Industrialized

 * France
 * Switzerland
 * Austria
 * Czechoslovakia
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Norway
 * Italy
 * Canada
 * Australia
 * Japan

Fully Industrialized

 * The United Kingdom
 * The United States of America
 * The Weimar Republic (Germany)
 * Belgium
 * The Netherlands
 * Luxembourg

Highest Tier

 * The United Kingdom
 * The United States of America
 * The Weimar Republic (Germany)
 * Belgium
 * The Netherlands
 * Luxembourg
 * France
 * Switzerland
 * Austria
 * Czechoslovakia
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Norway
 * Italy
 * Canada
 * Australia
 * South Africa
 * Greece
 * Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes

High Tier

 * Japan
 * Argentina
 * Red Russia
 * White Russia
 * Turkey
 * Spain
 * Portugal

Eastern Front

 * Turkey(1920)
 * Total: 23
 * Population: 3
 * Industry: 4
 * Technology: 4
 * Government: 5
 * War Eagerness: 10
 * War Weariness: 2
 * Readiness: 3
 * Fronts: -5
 * War Progress: 0
 * Armenia (1920)
 * Total: 22
 * Population: 0
 * Industry: 2
 * Technology: 3 (I guess? It isn't in a tier?)
 * Government: 5
 * War Eagerness: 10
 * War Weariness: 2
 * Readiness: 5
 * Fronts: -5 [Azerbaijani-Armenian War]
 * Battle of Erzurum (1920)
 * Armenia and Georgia
 * Total: 111.375
 * Troops: 30,000 Armenians + 10,000 Georgians = 40
 * Equipment: 1.35 (bolt-action rifles, no mechanization or motorization, motorcycle-lvl communications)
 * Support: 1.1 (no naval or aerial support, moderate artillery support)
 * Morale: 1.25 (ltd conscription, similar war scores, regaining lost territory)
 * Experience: 1.5 (experienced NCOs and officers but reservists)
 * Defensives: N/A
 * Turkey
 * Total: 86.8725
 * Troops: 25,000
 * Equipment: 1.35 (bolt-action rifles, no mechanization or motorization, motorcycle-lvl communications)
 * Support: 1.20, Ottoman air force, moderate artillery.
 * Morale: 1.30, defense of homeland, ltd conscription, similar war scores
 * Experience: 1.5 (experienced NCOs and officers but reservists)
 * Defensives: 1.10
 * Result:

Discussion
IDK if this is right. But it seems like this means Armenia and Georgia capture Rize and Erzurum and the forces Turkey sent to defend eastern Anatolia get pretty badly beaten (IDK what the margins mean). -Armenia Player

I have made changes in brackets, as recommened by the mods. I am ready for discussion.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:11, July 5, 2018 (UTC) The Azerbaijani-Armenian War was paused due to a ceasefire at the beginning of 1920, and given that I haven't restarted it as Armenia did OTL, and there hasn't been any moderator event to restart it on Azerbaijan's part, I don't think it's happening.

Also, the territories Turkey is defending aren't part of the Turkish homeland; they're predominantly or substantially Armenian territories whose inhabitants were just massacred en masse. In a lot of these areas, the Russians held control into 1917-18, preventing the genocide from occurring, so Armenians would still be in the majority, or would be in combination with Kurds, Georgians or other groups, and the kind of Turkish resettlement that happened in the 1920s OTL hasn't really occurred yet. Definitely not any part of core Turkish territory, and it seems a little presumptive even for Ataturk-era Turkey to treat the spoils of genocide as part of the Turkish homeland. MaddeningYams (talk) 03:10, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

Also, per the description in my turn, the entirety of Armenian forces were concentrated against Erzurum, with the second battle only occurring if they successfully captured that city, so the numbers ought to be 50,000 (or 40,000 with the lowered numbers). MaddeningYams (talk) 11:09, July 5, 2018 (UTC) Okay, so I've changed the algorithm to include all the suggested changes (despite the fact I disagree with many of them) except the reduction of Armenian troop numbers, and removed the second battle to reflect the fact that it is unlikely that Armenian troops would win decisively enough at Erzurum to move on to Rize as planned. I think the higher numbers are reasonable because Armenia ATL is not fighting a simultaneous war with Azerbaijan, for reasons described above, and won't be until either I restart it or a moderator does on Azerbaijan's behalf, and also because Armenians are quite angry about the genocide and would presumably be enthusiastic about getting the homes they have been expelled from back. Also, because no one has crossed out the 50,000 I put in my turn, so that's presumably a reasonable operative total number. I additionally included the regaining lost territories modifier for Armenia, which seems reasonable if Turkey is to receive the defending homeland modifier. Sorry if this is wrong! MaddeningYams (talk) 14:12, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

If all of the forces are concentrated as Ezurum, then you shouldn't have done the second battle until you have the result of the first.

As to your points. If OTL things happen without the need for being posted, then you must contend with the numerous Bolshevik uprisings taking place in Armenia in 1920. If OTL things can only happen when posted about, then Azerbaijan remains at war with you. Either way, you are fighting someone else at the same time you are fighting me. I've also spoken to the mods, and given that the armistice with Azerbaijan only happened because of a Soviet invasion there in 1920, which the Soviet player did not do, they have no reason to halt the fighting. Enjoy your second front.

Given that you have a second front, I find it unlikely you'd be able to deploy all of your men against me, otherwise Azerbaijan will just walk right in. The mods think, at least for 1920, the most you could throw would be 35,000, with the rest against Azerbaijan.

Next, the Turks have held these lands for nearly five hundred years, populated by Armenians or no. If the Turks are willing to fight and die, at supreme lengths, to defend Gallipoli (~70% Greek) or Mesopotamia (Widely Arab and Kurd), then I think they would also fight zealously for these lands as well.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 14:44, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

I think you're confused about the course of the Armenian-Azerbaijani War. A ceasefire was signed in late 1919 and fighting restarted in early 1920 (I believe in March). The war subsequently resumed when Armenia attempted to retake the territory lost in 1919, then stopped again when the Soviets invaded later in 1920 (the part of the war to which you refer). Thus, as the game began, Armenia and Azerbaijan were not at war. I haven't restarted war with Azerbaijan, and the mods haven't restarted it on behalf of Azerbaijan, so the ceasefire is still in place. Incidentally, the ceasefire left Azerbaijan in control of the region under dispute, so I don't see why they'd restart the war. Although this advice isn't widely applicable, I'd suggest that in future, you hold the gloating sarcasm until you've got a clear grasp on the course of ethnic conflict in the 1920s Caucasus.

Also, you can't unilaterally end the Franco-Turkish War, as you did in your 1921 turn. So that's still going on, unless the France player or a mod agrees to end the war. But France is definitely still at war with Turkey in the 1920 turn. Enjoy your third front!

Now, I'm sure the Turks are "willing to fight and die zealously" for the regions under dispute, but it doesn't follow that they are doing so for their homeland. Indeed, they are doing so in order to retain the territorial spoils of a lengthy, brutal campaign of systematic mass killing. Even for Kemalist Turkey, trying to create a narrative of a "crusade to defend the homeland" for a campaign to keep territory taken from the victims of a genocide trying to take it back would, I think, be a bit hard to swallow. The "defending homelands" bonus, it seems to me, ought to apply to regions where the state's dominant ethnic group has a clear majority, not ethnically mixed borderlands; there's certainly no plausible chance that the Armenians are going to push into central Anatolia, given the relative strengths at play here. This is especially true because Armenians are still in the majority in a lot of these areas, since the Russian army held them long enough to avert the genocide; in fact, Armenian refugees scattered across the whole Ottoman empire fled to a lot of these places, creating increased concentrations of the Armenian population.

Finally, I'd like to hear from the mods themselves, rather than have the mods speak through an involved player - I don't think that's how the system ought to work. MaddeningYams (talk) 15:38, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

Arab Crisis

 * United Kingdom of Great Britian and Ireland (1921)
 * Total: 53
 * Population: 20
 * Industry: 10
 * Technology: 5
 * Government: 5
 * War Eagerness: -2
 * War Weariness: 5
 * Readiness: 5
 * Fronts: 5


 * Hashemite Kingdom of Syria (1921)
 * Total: 23
 * Population: 0
 * Industry: 0
 * Technonlogy: 1
 * Governemnt: -1
 * War Eagerness: 10
 * War Weariness: 5
 * Readiness: 3
 * Front: 5


 * Battle of Nazareth (1921)
 * United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
 * Total: 97.83
 * Troops: 7 (7,000 deployed)
 * Equipment: 4.35 (Modern Assault Rifles, Fully Motorized, Fully Mechanized, Widespread Radio)
 * Support: 1.35 (Minimal Artillery, Moderate Armour, Full Aerial)
 * Morale: 1.4 (More than double taht of the enemy, Democratic Monarchist Ideaology, Volunteer Only)
 * Experience: 1.7 (Proffesional Army, Experienced Veterans of WW1)
 * Defensives: N/A

Result: (Percenatge equals 9783%)
 * Hashemite Kingdom of Syria
 * Total: 1
 * Troops: 2 (2,000 troops)
 * Equipment: 1.25 (Bolt-action Rifles)
 * Support: 1
 * Morale: 1 (Volunteer, Less than half the enemy, Monarchist)
 * Experience: 0.4 (Basic Training)
 * Defensives: N/A

British Forces capture and secure Northern Palestine and begin a succesful offensive in Lebaonon and Southern Syria.