Talk:Principia Moderni III/Archive 11

Proposed Results

 * The dark green portion of the map is ceeded to the Commonwealth of BorealiaBorealia1.png
 * The remaining portion of California is set up as an independent government economically and politically dependent on Borealia (but as an NPC, not a vassal)
 * The Curia will pay the local governments of California monetary compensation for any inconvenciences.

Proposed Rational

 * We have been influencing the region for over 25 years (since 1803 I think). That entitles us to 50% of Calfornia's territory
 * Because this is more than 33%, this also entitles us to vasselize the region. However, I will keep it as an NPC so someone else can play it.
 * California's government is in chaos and the local authorities are desparate for change

Discussion
Questions? Concerns? Outrage? Nathan1123 (talk) 18:26, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

That's not how it works, that's French territory. You can't directly cede it.

However, with a long enough influence time you could potentially instigate a revolt in the French territory there, and go to war with France. And now that the new algo is up, I allow it. SkyGreen24 18:40, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

So I'm going to be the guinny pig for testing the new algorithm? Awesome.

As my very first algorithm it will be tricky. Nathan1123 (talk) 18:54, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Borealia
Total: 74.9166...
 * Location: 15+8+4/3=9
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+4+5+3+4+2.25+3
 * Motive: 7+5+7/3=6.33...
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 178
 * UTC (19:15) = 1*9*1*5 = 45
 * 178/45 * pi = 12.42674427
 * Nation Age: 3.33...
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/100,000=1
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

France
Total: 45.5
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4+3+3+3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 4786
 * UTC (19:15) = 1*9*1*5
 * 4786/45 * pi =334.125832
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 100,000/200,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(74.9166.../(74.9166...+45.5))*2-1=0.244290657*1.5=0.366435986

You can topple in 6 years.

Discussion
I opt you let me do the algo, since we're using the new one now. SkyGreen24 19:12, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Be my guest. Nathan1123 (talk) 19:13, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Done, I'm not sure if I should add the civil disarray multiplier tho. SkyGreen24 19:59, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

I assumed I would get it, in light of the recent mod events Nathan1123 (talk) 20:02, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I tweaked the algo further, so we're back at the old result calculation. And yeah, you're getting the multiplier. SkyGreen24 21:56, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Just FYI, Algonquia is sending aid and troops to assist Borealia in the war. Shikata ga nai! 22:48, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I should be recieving considerable aid from New Bavaria, Reme, and Algonquia (didn't see that one coming). Nathan1123 (talk) 00:32, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

I know, I'd just been too lazy to do it. But now it's done. SkyGreen24 07:44, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

For the sake of completeness, Arcadia is also sending military aid Nathan1123 (talk) 15:59, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Reme
Total: 76*1.1=83.6
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3-10
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 87,500/25,000=4
 * Theaters of War:

Nation A
Total: 52
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale -2-5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:

Reme
Total: 81*1.1=89.1
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3+5
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3-10
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 62,500/25,000=3
 * Theaters of War:

Nation B
Total: 52
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale -2-5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:

Results
A: (83.6/(83.6+52))*2-1=0.233038348*1.5=0.349557522

B: (89.1/(89.1+52))*2-1=0.262934089*1.5=0.394401134

B is toppled in 4 years (B is the coastal one)

A is toppled in 11 years

Results
So, given that the last war was more or less open and shut and I don't believe there is any cause to doubt a similar outcome, for the sake of simplicity and efficiency, I'm going to call this as a victory for Castile. "This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 02:42, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total:101
 * Location:20+15+20=18
 * Location Bonus:+1
 * Tactical Advantage:+1
 * Nations Per Side: Andea (L) Apeac (LV) Brazilian Rebels (L) =+13/3=4.3=4
 * Military Development:58+10+5=73/16=4.5=5
 * Economic Development:52-2=50/7=5.7~6
 * Expansion:-1
 * Motive:7(Brazil)+3(Andea)+3(Apeac)=13/3=4
 * Modifiers:+6+6
 * Chance:8
 * Edits:1903
 * UTC (ABCD) = 0 * 3 * 0 * 7 =21
 * 1903/21 * pi = 284.688
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population:+8+20=28
 * Participation:+10
 * Number of Troops:40k/30k=1, Ships=5/40=0
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Defender
Total:66
 * Location:+25
 * Location Bonus:+1
 * Tactical Advantage:+1
 * Nations per side:Portugal (L)=+5
 * Military Development:13,0
 * Economy Development:7,0
 * Infrastructure:7
 * Expansion:0
 * Motive:5
 * Modifiers:4
 * Chance:8
 * Edits:
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D =
 * / * pi =
 * Nation Age:-15
 * Population:+7
 * Participation:+10
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troops strength:+8
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Result
20% max 10% in 2 years.

Discussion
Most of the Numbers (Scores, Troops, Pop) where confrimed by MP. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 03:28, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

You do understand that we're using the new algo, right? SkyGreen24 08:52, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

No I didn't cause it said WIP.

Attackers
Total:74.15
 * Location:+8(*.75)+8(*.75)+8(1)=6+6+8=20/3=6.6
 * Tatical Advantage: Attacker and Suprise:2+6=8
 * Strengh: Andea (3) Apeac (3-.25) Brazil (4)=9.25
 * Motive: 7(Brazil)+3(Andea)+3(Apeac)=16/3=5.3
 * Morale:Brazil (+3) Andea (+3) Apeac (+3)=+3+5
 * Chance (Same As Above):=8
 * Population:+8+10=18
 * Nation Age:+0
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Numbers (Same as Above):+1
 * Particpation:+10

Defenders
Total:37
 * Location:15*1=15
 * Strenght:+4
 * Motive:+5
 * Morale: (Giving them the benifit of the doubt):+3
 * Chance (same):+8
 * Population:+7
 * Nation Age:-15
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Numbers:+8
 * Participation:+10

Result
33% max

16% in a year, 25% in 2.

Disscussion
Having done this algo, I do have some critiques.

Algonquia
Total: 61.5
 * Location: 8*0.75=6
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 3 + (3 - 0.25) + (3 - 0.25) + 3 = 13.5
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 1443
 * UTC (11:54) = 1*1*5*4 = 20
 * 1443/20 * pi = 226.66591
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 60,000/30,000= 2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: -6

Dutch Newfoundland
Total: 66.25*1.1=72.875
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+4+6
 * Strength: 4-0.75+4+3+5+3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 4375
 * UTC (11:54) = 20
 * 4375/20 * pi = 687.223392973
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 9
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 30,000/60,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:
 * Recent Defeats: -2 (Central America)

Result
(72.875/(72.875+58.5))*2-1=0.1094196

Discussion
This is it for now, I removed the concurrent wars since the mod event clearly states that they had been defeated quickly in 1835 and no further mod events mentioned anything else about that region.

Anyways since this is a defensive war, Netherlands can't take more than 4% although I'm guessing that's enough for the OTL port of St, Johns. SkyGreen24 14:11, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Question?
Now can i topple Galicia's goverment?

Wrto12 (talk) 12:40, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. SkyGreen24 12:45, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total: 85.9
 * Location: +8 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Nations Per Side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: Larger = +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 (Attacking to enforce political hegemony)
 * Modifiers: -2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 7,057
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 2 * 0 * 4 = 8
 * 7/7057 * pi = 0.00311454
 * Nation Age: -5 (5-25 years since government change)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 250,000/70,000 = 2.9
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 61.4
 * Location: +25 (At the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (No defenses, open field, etc.)
 * Nations per side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy Development: Smaller = -2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Modifiers: +4 (Non-democratic Government supported by people)
 * Chance: 3
 * Edits: 0
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = 8
 * 0/8 * pi = 0
 * Nation Age: +0 (Old, 200-300 years old)
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 70,000/200,000 = 0.4
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Result
China seizes 16% of the nation of Manchu in the southern portions.

Castile
RexImperio told me that my country(Castile) owns Navarre(that my country attacked and conquered them...)If thats true(There is an error on the map) then tell me cuase i was planning to invade them and pls correct it.

Please don't forget to sign your posts.

Rimp is mistaken. Castile does not own Navarre at the present time.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 19:48, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, iirc I invaded and took over Navvare for the short period of time I was playing as them. Saturn120 20:48, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Castile

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2+6
 * Strength: +4
 * Motive: +3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (19:55) = 1*9*5*5 = 16?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 1.744
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 100,000/25,000=4
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0
 * Recent Wars:-2

Total:65

===Navarra ===
 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: +9
 * Morale: -2-2-5
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (19:55) = 2*0*4*2 = 16?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 7,875
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Total:59

Result
4% max

2% in a year

Discussion
Pls correct my culculations as this is my second algorithm

Why are so many nations involved? You should list who is involved in the war. Troop Numbers are way too high for your side. #PraiseRoosevelt. 14:34, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Well Russia is helping me but i have no idea how to put them i am new to algorithms...

Thats not right as i told Russia is supporting me...with their help i am able to take more than 2%...

Mexaco
So i was looking to get back into the game and Saw Mexaco was open so im hoping to take that. Ive already posted and would like to get a lowdown on whats happening there so i can write better posts. Also if its not okay then ill bail on it but it just seemed like a good nation to get back into the game with.

Pretty good actually, they conquered almost all of Central America recently with a few final states left. Saturn120 16:25, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Damn Sat, stahp lying. Hasn't Mexico thing been idle ever since the Treaty of Toledo? I think Britannia and Scandivania controlled it for a certain period of time but doesn't seen like it ever expanded as you suggest. ♣There is no good or evil:  only power and those too weak to seek it♣  Mexico Expanded via mod events because players where too lazy/busy to notice the build up, except Hamburg who actually put up a defence. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:54, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mexaca

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 4+3=7
 * Motive: +7
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (00:00) = 1*1*1*1 = 1?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 1.744
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0
 * Recent Wars:-6

Total:38*1.5=57

===Hamburger Empire ===
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +5+8
 * Strength: 4-0.25+4+3=10.75
 * Motive: +5+5=5
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 2980
 * UTC (19:55) = 2*0*4*2 = 1
 * 2980/1 * pi(?) = 9361.9461077
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Total:63.25

Result
(63.25/(57+63.25))*2-1=0.05197505196

Discussion
Not sure how this would change the algo, but Borealia is also sending troops to the Mexacan side. "This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 19:49, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Was told to do as if Mexico was still NPC. Mexico w/ Borealian aid vs Hamburg and Belize. Feud's newest post says a few million in the nation, so I interpreted that as "less than 10 million). #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:12, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Done. SkyGreen24 18:21, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't this mean that Mexeca lost? Nathan1123 (talk) 19:23, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

It means Mexaca barely wins.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 19:31, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mexico actually still loses. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:25, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Switch
Could i switch to Japan?Japan's player is inactive for a very long time.I currently play as Castile Wrto12 (talk) 01:15, April 16, 2015 (UTC)Wrto12

Attackers

 * Location:+8(*.75)+8(*.75)+8(1)+8=6+6+8+8=28/4=7


 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker and Suprise:2+6=8


 * Strength: Andea (3) Apeac (2.25-.25) Voyloyclayr(4) Aymara(3-.25) Osean Loyalists (4-.25)=18.5+5+3+3+3


 * Motive:7+(Andea)+3( Vorlayacor)+3(Aymara)=16/3=5.3


 * Morale: Andea (+3) Aymara (+3) Vorlayacor (3) Osean (-2)=+3+5
 * Chance:5
 * Editcount:1978
 * UTC:9:10=9
 * 1978/9=690.452
 * Population:+8+10=18


 * Nation Age:+0


 * Recent Wars:02


 * Numbers:65,000/20000=3.25


 * Particpation:+10

Total:95.05

Defender

 * Location:15*1=15


 * Strength:+4


 * Tactical Advantage:+5


 * Motive:+9


 * Morale: (Giving them the benefit of the doubt):+3


 * Chance:+


 * Population:+7


 * Nation Age:0


 * Recent Wars:0


 * Numbers:0


 * Participation:+10

Total:50

Result
23% taken in the previous war.

32% max

16% in a year

collapsed after 1 year.

Attacker
Total: 75.3
 * Location: +8 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Nations Per Side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: Larger = +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 (Attacking to enforce political hegemony)
 * Modifiers: -2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 7,087
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 3 = 81
 * 81/7087 * pi = 0.0142938
 * Nation Age: -5 (5-25 years since government change)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/70,000 = 4.3
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 61.23
 * Location: +25 (At the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (No defenses, open field, etc.)
 * Nations per side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy Development: Smaller = -2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Modifiers: +4 (Non-democratic Government supported by people)
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 0
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 3 = 81
 * 0/8 * pi = 0
 * Nation Age: +0 (Old, 200-300 years old)
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Troops strength: 70,000/300,000 = .23
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Result
China seizes 16% of the nation of Manchu in the southern portions.

Croatia
Total: 78*1.1=85.8
 * Location: -4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 3517
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 3517/4 * pi = 2762.245341
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 80,000/20,000=4
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Sukadang
Total: 51
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6+4+8
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -10-5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 3517
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 3517/4 * pi = 2762.245341
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(85.8/(85.8+51))*2-1=0.254385964=0.381578947

Toppled in 4 years.

Assyria (Aggressor)

 * Location: Next to the location of the war (+8) = +8
 * Tactical advantage: Attacker (+2), surprise (+6) = +8
 * Strength: Better military (+3) = +3+4+ 2(Rome)
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: Non-democratic (-2) = -2
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit count = 10,414
 * UTC time = 2122
 * Chance = (10,414*pi)/(2*2*2) = 4089.56823681
 * Population: 3,999,999 (+7) = +7
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Troop number: 38,000 = 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Total: 46

Persia (Defender)

 * Location: 15
 * Tactical advantage: Defender (+5) = +5
 * Strength: Much larger economy (+5) = +5+4+4 (Calihpate) +2.25 (Bengal)
 * Motive: Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years (+5) = +5
 * Morale: Non-democratic government (-2) = -2
 * Chance: +8
 * Population: 8,000,000 (+7), greater population (+2) = +9
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Troop number: 76,000/38,000 = +2
 * Participation: +10
 * Total: 62.25

Discussion
Done. SkyGreen24 18:03, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Given that Persia is superior than Assyria in population and resources, I highly doubt that Persia would be able to raise a small force of 8000 whilst Assyria has an army of 38,000.
 * 2) The Caliphate has declared war upon Assyria, and that needs to be added to the algorithm in the form of a second front most likely.
 * 3) Given that you wish to unite the Kurds, your motive would be "Taking territory of similar culture", not "Hegemony

Roman Empire
Total: 78
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5
 * Motive: 6
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 8414
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 8414/4 * pi = 2106.641593
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 80,000/20,000=4
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Antillian Rebels
Total: 56
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6+4+8
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale: +3-5
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(78/(78+56))*2-1=0.164179104

Can't seem to get the second part of the equation to work, but yeah.

Discussion
So I did this based on what I have picked up. If anyone wants to through in any hints, go for it.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 21:04, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Japanese Empire
Total: 78
 * Location: +8*0.75=6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage) +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Strength: 3+3 (Larger economy)+3 (Better military)+3 (Fully mobilized)+5(Naval dominance)
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +5 (Troop Morale high)-2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 142
 * UTC (6:26) = 6*2*6 =
 * 142/72 * pi = 6.195918845
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 30,000,000 = +8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/100,000=3
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Manchuria
Total: 57
 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: +9 (Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack)
 * Morale: -2-5 (Troop Morale low)
 * Chance: 5
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 15,000,000? =8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:-4 (2 recent wars with China)
 * Troops strength: 100,000/300,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(78/(78+57))*2-1=0.1470588235294118

I have no idea about my Industrial Stage so pls correct that and tell me what's my Industrial Stage so i could do it better next time,also i have no idea how to count my 3 vassals and chance

Discussion
Done. SkyGreen24 21:17, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total: 79
 * Location: +6 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Strength: 3+3+5=11
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale 5-2
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 7,119
 * UTC (23:30) = 2*3*3*1=18
 * 7119/18 * pi = 1242.49989
 * Nation Age: 0 (25-75 years, Maturing Nation)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 600,000/300,000 = 2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 46
 * Location: +15 (At the Location of the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: 3+3=6
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Morale: -10-2-2-2
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -6
 * Troops strength: 300,000/600,000 = 0
 * Theaters of War: 0

Result
(79/(76+46))*2-1=0.264

He needs 33.33% to topple. So. 2 years'll do it.

Discussion
Given that China previously took 16% of China, they would be able to topple Manchu this turn by taking 26-28% more which adds upto around 44%.

However, Japan also took 14% of Manchu which somewhat means that Japan would have 14% of Manchu whilst China would have 86%. Or, China and Japan can just decide this with themselves.

Done. Seems like Dae's topplin.

Borealia
Total: 99*1.4=138.6
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6=8
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3+5=20
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale:+3
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 238
 * UTC (14:21) = 1*4*2*1 = 6
 * (238/6) * pi = 124.6165
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20=28
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/10,000=20
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent wars: -2-1
 * Concurrent Wars:

Kiatagmiut
Total: 64
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+10=15
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale: +3-5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D =
 * / * pi =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength:
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(138.6/(138.6+64))*2 -1 = 0.36821322802

toppled in six years

Discussion
Fixed. SkyGreen24 18:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

I know it's semantics, but as a learning experience:

1. why do they get +3 morale? Is the Kiatagmiut democratic?

2. why don't I get a 1.5 multiplier? why 1.4?

thanks Nathan1123 (talk) 20:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

France
It seems that Sine hasn't posted in forever, and while I apreciate that others continue to cp his posts for turn after turn, it no longer makes any sense whatsoever. Besides the fact that every word in the copied post is now contradicted by world events, it just looks plain ridiculous that France should be so frozen during this time. At least have the decency to throw in some sort of revolt or civil decent to merely expain what's going on. It's the nineteenth century, for crying out loud. You have umpteenth number of OTL revolutions to use as explanation for why France is impenent (not to mention the precedent of Britannia when Trollis was absent).

Rant over Nathan1123 (talk) 04:46, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Considering multiple people have not only been kicked for inactivity, but also for being away and having turns copy-pasted for a long time, it's probably due that Sine is kicked too. Tr0llis (talk) 22:56, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think now through the end of May should be a grace period. Finals tend to kill our player base. Sine is inactive due to IRL issues I think. Crim de la Crème 23:00, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

His last post was on March 4, 1796 Nathan1123 (talk) 23:21, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

If he has been absent for over a century, then he needs to be removed. Ofcourse, whether this happens or not depends on the Mods who don't seem keen on kicking off a 'fellow mod and friend'.

Crim tell that to the people who kicked me out on the fifteenth turn exactly, and to the Moscow player who they kicked on the twelfth turn, which technically isn't even inactive enough. The grace period shouldn't apply only to Sine, not when a half dozen others have been kicked out for much less (in some cases they didn't even miss fifteen turns, they had people copy-pasting for them the whole time, but were simply inactive themselves for a long time). Tr0llis (talk) 14:16, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, not even going to adress what Trollis is bringing up cause those are seperate issue all together. Sine is "inactive" do to the death of his computer. However, Sine is still in contact with Mp via Facebook Moblie. Idk How many of you have tried, but using wikia on a moblie phone is shit. Because Sine can respond to events and diplomacy in the game, he is techniqully not inactive. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:30, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

This is pretty hypocritical. The user Razor lost access to a computer too, but continued to have people post for him and copy and paste what he sent them. Yet the mods, particularly his neighbor Fed, declared that he was still inactive. They said that Razor may be posting still, but he himself had been inactive for too long, and that he shouldn't play an online game if he has trouble getting online. Razor was kicked from his nation because of that. But I'm sure Sine's case is different. Tr0llis (talk) 18:58, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

I don't really care what happens to France, but just so you know Edge, I was kicked out of my nation while technically active too. If past nations are any indicator, it doesn't matter much if you technically still post. Then again I'm not really sure what happened to my nation, and at this point I don't want to continue playing anyway. - Fritzmet (talk)

Sine is inactive because he hasn't responded any events or diplomacy since 1796. That's why France no longer makes any sense. Nathan1123 (talk) 20:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

France has declared war on the Rhineland every year for the past several decades now. Tr0llis (talk) 20:31, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't really make much sense Edge. He isn't posting, people are doing it for him which means he is inactive. Whether he is in contact with MP or not does not matter because he is inactive... One more thing, I also use a mobile phone for the wiki most of the time [Same goes for Sat, he uses an iPad I think which kind of displays the wiki the same as how it is on phone] and I don't see any problem with it. ♣There is no good or evil:  only power and those too weak to seek it♣  05:58, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Not really, Rimp. Ive been on a computer and it looks just like it does on my iPad 2, Rimp. Saturn120 23:36, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Bengal Sultanate
Result: 81.25
 * Location: 8+8*0.875/2=7.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Jaunpur] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 21
 * Motive: +6+3/2=4.5
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +8
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 211.5862652
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +18
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops: 225,000/100,000 = 2.25
 * Participation: +10

Deccan Sultanate
Result: 49
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Deccan]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 67.351
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/225,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10

Results
(81.25/(81.25+49))*2 -1 = 0.24760076775

18.5% in two years.

Discussion
Sky, for whatever reason, doesn't like it when you bold things or use the brackets instead of the parenthesis. Thought you should know.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 22:20, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

However, Sky can live with the bolding stuff. However, what I can't live with is you vassalizing Jaunpur even though there's been numerous cases which had already set the precedent that vassalizing is not easily achievable. SkyGreen24 07:08, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

You see, Jaunpur can easily be vassalized. There is a reason why in otl, the Persians and Afghans could easily move to and fro from Delhi to Kabul. Or how the Marathas easily occupied Delhi without much of a fight... Or why the British soldiers were able to just enter Delhi and place the Mughal Emperor under 'British protection'. Thing is, Jaunpur lacks the capability to maintain its sovereignty and integrity, which has been proven in PM3 as well given the Timurid, Mughal and Urdustani 'vassalization' of Jaunpur. The state of Jaunpur cannot expect to exist for long by itself without controlling either Punjab or Bengal, which is why one rarely ever sees Empires similar to Jaunpur. Even being hostile with either Punjab or Bengal can prove to be deadly for Jaunpur as the state itself lacks the resources and manpower to achieve stability, which makes Jaunpur forced to depend upon others and prone to vassalization. In between Punjab and Bengal, Jaunpur would most likely turn to Bengal, not the Sikh regime in Muslim Punjab. Now, to the main point. A dynastic union already existed between Bengal and Jaunpur since the times of Eip, and it was 'renewed' recently as well. Moreover, Jaunpur depends upon Bengal for import of products and an outlet to the sea. Finally, the British never conquered 'Northern India' either, they vassalized it in the 19th Century using Bengal as a base. Something that is exactly what I am doing. If anything, the Lodis in Jaunpur are probably even weaker than the otl Mughals because while Carnatac and Mysore occasionally swore loyalty to the Mughals and the Afghans often aided them, no one in PM3 has submitted to the authority of Jaunpur.

Borealia
Total: 70*1.5=105
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4+3+3+5=15
 * Motive: 3+5+7=15
 * Morale: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 253
 * UTC (19:39) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 9 = 243
 * 235/243 * pi = 3.2708...
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Number of Troops:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Defender
Total: 32
 * Location: -4
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+4+6=15
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 148
 * UTC (19:39) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 9 = 243
 * 148/243 * pi = 1.9133
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(105/(105*32))*2-1 = 0.5328...

Topple in 2 years

Hashemite Caliphate

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Hashemite Caliphate] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 23.75
 * Motive: +6 [Taking Back Territory Recently Held]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] = -2
 * Chance: +0
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 84

Zand Dynasty

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Persia]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 43

Results
(84/(84+43))*2-1= .32283

.32283*(1-1/(2*t))= .2421 in two years.

Not sure why this wasn't finished, but there.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 18:21, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Nations to pick
Are there any nations I could pick? - QC

Bengal Sultanate
Result: 69.75
 * Location: 8+8*0.875/2=7.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 18
 * Motive: +6
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 1378
 * UTC (06:06): 0*6*0*6 = 36
 * (1378/36)*pi: 120.253185462
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10 [Between 5-10 Times Larger] = +18
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 225,000/100,000 = 2.25
 * Participation: +10

Deccan Sultanate
Result: 45
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Deccan]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +3
 * Edits: 1378
 * UTC (06:06): 0*6*0*6 = 36
 * (1378/36)*pi: 120.253185462
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 100,000/225,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10

Results
(69.75/(69.45+45))*2 -1 = 0.218872

16.4% in two years.

18.5% from last war and now, adds upto 34.9% which is enough to topple.

Reme
Total: 63 + chance
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+ 3(Mobilized)+3(Larger economy)+5(naval dominance) = 15
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance:
 * Edits:
 * UTC
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8 +2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 90,000/30,000= 3
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Arcadia
Total: 39 + chance
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -2
 * Chance:
 * Edits:
 * UTC =
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars: -10 (since there's no provision in the algo for multiple fronts, I used this)

Result
((63/(39+63))*2)-1 = 0.23529411764 (0.23529411764 )*(1-1/(2x2)) = 0.17647058823

Algonquia
Total: 68 + chance
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+3+3 (Mobilized) +5 (Naval dominance)=15
 * Motive: 7 + 5 =6
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits:
 * UTC
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 60,000/30,000=2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Arcadia
Total: 39 + chance
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -2
 * Chance:
 * Edits:
 * UTC =
 * ?* pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars: -10 (since there's no provision in the algo for multiple fronts, I used this)

Result
((68/(39+68))*2)-1 = 0.27102803738 (0.27102803738)*(1-1/(2x2)) = 0.20327102803 Combined, the two fronts exceed 33%, meaning Arcadia is toppled.

One thing I would question is if Reme has a greater economy than that of Arcadia. It's possible, but I find it unlikely. If other mods could come here and check that would be appreciated.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 18:24, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

To defend that, I'd point out that Arcadia controls only the Canadian Maritimes, Quebec, and parts of New England, while Reme controls almost the entire east and southeast of the U.S. A comparison of the economies of these two regions OTL illustrates why its reasonable to assume Reme has a larger economy. Shikata ga nai! 23:39, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

To defend that, Acradia controls major ship yards, industrial centers, and maritime ports. Looking at the current map, Acradia controls all of New England, All of New york, most (If not all) of Pennslyvania, New Jeresey, Most of Quebec and the other population centers of Canada at this point in OTL. So I personally belive it is resonable to say that Acradia would, if anything, have the larger economy. It controls most of the Inudustry of the Eastern US, a signifigant pool of Resources, and most of the population centers.

Let's not forget, industry, shipyards, etc. didn't develop like OTL. There's no particular reason to assume OTL New York should have become an industrial centre while OTL, say, Virginia remained more agricultural. Indeed, it may well have been the opposite, given that the south and southeast was settled first and has been under the control an independent power with an interest in local development, rather than a colonizer trying to exploit resources, for longer. Looking solely at population and land area, which we can reasonably assume to have remained the same from OTL, Reme's economy would be larger. Assuming Arcadia has a larger economy solely on the basis of OTL economics is an exercise in futility. But IDK, it probably won't make a huge difference to the result anyway. Shikata ga nai! 14:14, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

I mean you state that you have compared the OTL economies. But I digress. Reme is defienatly less industrial than Arcadia. Take that as you will. #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:21, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Just saying, it is fair to say that Crim and Andy did extensively create Boston and New York as major population centers. So while everything might not be the same as OTL, there are definitely major population centers and areas of industry in Arcadia, and I imagine there are others I don't know about.

That being said it might not entirely matter at this time.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 22:08, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Hashemite Caliphate

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]  = +2
 * Strength: +4 [Hashemite Caliphate] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 23.75
 * Motive: +6 [Taking Back Territory Recently Held]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] = -2
 * Chance: +0
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 76

Zand Dynasty

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Persia]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 3805
 * UTC (04:05): 1*7*1*1 = 7
 * (3805/7)*pi: 1707.901
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 41

Results
(76/(76+41))*2-1= .29914

.29914*(1-1/(2*t))= .2243 in two years.

With this war's results compounded with the results of the previous war, I do believe Zand Persia has fallen to the Caliphate. Was not how I wanted the Middle East to turn out, but oh well.

"This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 02:33, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Mexacan Empire

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] + +6 [Surprise Attack]  = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Mexaca] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 18
 * Motive: +5 [Similar not part of nation]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]+5 (High Morale) = -2
 * Chance: +8
 * Edits:
 * UTC (04:05):  = 20
 * (1538/20)*pi:
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2?
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 89

California

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [California]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: +3 [Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -2 (Assuming it is democratic, inform otherwise)
 * Chance: 8
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 57

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(89/(89+57))*2-1= 0.219178082

thatshizzleabove*(1-1/(2*2))= 0.164383561 in two years.

Results are without chance. Other mods, do come in and check if you want to.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 03:00, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

I have a few questions. My first question is whether the Mexacan attack would be a 'surprise attack'. Given that Mexaca has already been at war in the last 15 turns and has a history of bad relations with California, I believe California would've expected an incoming Mexacan attack. We must surely not forget how California and Mexaca have been at war before as well. So, I believe +6 Surprise Attack should be removed.

My second question is why California did not receive +6 for 'homeland is desert'. If we were to assume that the war was fought in Southern California, than it was most surely fought in the Sonoran and Mojave Desert. That means that California should receive a +6 for Desert.

My third question is that unlike otl, North America remained fractured for much longer. This would most likely also mean that unlike otl, Mexaca was not necessarily urbanized in the North. In any case, this brings in the factor of whether Mexaca possesses the given resources and railroad system to provide its troops with supplies, who are fighting in enemy territory in a 280,000 km2 desert. That leads one to conclude that since Mexaca had achieved naval dominance, it would be much more easier for them to launch an attack upon Californian Baja through the sea. That leads one to then conclude that if an amphibious attack is launched, California would receive an additional +6 for amphibious landing.

My fourth question is whether we can completely rule out any possibility of a Guerilla war fought by the Californian army, in the Sonora Desert. Although this is debatable, it is a possibility given that the algorithm shows Mexaca to be substantially advanced in technology which would most likely lead to the Californian military adopting Guerilla tactics. Ofcourse, this is debatable but if so, it would give California +1 and -5 to Mexaca.

My fifth question is why Mexaca received 'fully mobilized'. This is an overused bonus thing that has almost always been used by people to get a +3, completely neglecting the economical problems that one would face by fully mobilizing his nation, and let's not forget how Mexacan people would oppose any 'full mobilization' after the defeat that Mexaca faced against Hamburg. I personally believe it should be removed from Mexaca.

Rimp, people don't fight guerrilla wars in deserts, because they rely on local sources of supply and support, which don't exist in the Mojave because no one lives there. So no, guerrilla tactics would result in starvation. Shikata ga nai! 13:10, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

To address the various points...

California annexed Baja and Mexaca didn't really care at all. In addition, California's actions were motivated not by anger towards Mexaca but towards Borealia, which annexed more than half of their nation while giving them independence. So while it may seem that way, Mexaca didn't care at all about the annexation until now, several years after they had fought their last war.

Mexaca has desert as well, so I believe the respective bonuses cancel out, since both sides would know how to fight in desert.

It wasn't an amphibious attack. Nations can launch campaigns far away over desert if they plan and execute them carefully, see America in the Mexican-American War where they managed to invade California from Missouri. Industrial centers don't need to be near the line of fighting in order to count, they need to exist and be close enough to send said supplies. Again, America's industrial centers did not appear close to California or Mexico when they fought.

Same as Kras said.

Not sure why you would say the Mexacans would oppose a full mobilization. They fought against four nations and only lost once. That's a three to one ratio, and those were European powers. You think they would be opposed to taking on a backwater Borealian nation that did in fact take some of their land not so long ago?

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 16:27, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

Borealia

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2+6  = +8
 * Strength: +4+5+3+5 = 17
 * Motive: +5+7 = 12
 * Morale: 3+5 = 8
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 281
 * UTC (16:20):  = 1*6*2 = 12
 * (281/12)*pi: 73.5656...
 * Population: +8+20= +28
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/44,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 102*1.5=153

California

 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: +4
 * Motive: +9
 * Morale: +3-5 = -2
 * Chance: 8
 * Population: +8
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/150,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 57

Results
(153/(153+57))*2 - 1 = 0.4571...

toppled in two years

Teh Arabs and Friends
Result: 64.66
 * Location: (+8 +4)/2 = 6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 = 2
 * Strength: +4 [Roman Empire]  +4 [Arabia]  +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 28
 * Motive: +3 +3 = 6
 * Morale: +3 - 20 = -17
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/75,000 = +2.66
 * Participation: +10

Teh Turks of Azerbaijan
Result: 49
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] = +5
 * Strength: +4    = 4
 * Motive: +9 = 9
 * Morale: -7
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +7 [Population] = +7
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 75,000/200,000 = 0
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(64.66/(64.66+49))*2-1= .13777

.13777*(1-1/(2*2))= 10.333%

Discussion
Will start this when I get back home.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 21:18, May 14, 2015 (UTC)

Done.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 16:58, May 18, 2015 (UTC)

Italian Rebles
Result: 49.7
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] = +2
 * Strength: +5 [Italian Rebles]   = 5
 * Motive: +7 [Aiding Social/Moral/Ideological/Religious Kinsmen who are being "oppressed"] = 7
 * Morale: .5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +8 [Population] = +8
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 175,000/300,000 = 1.7
 * Participation: +10

Rome and Roman Loyalists
Result: 55.5
 * Location: (+15 +4 +4 +4)/4 = 6.75
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 = 5
 * Strength: +4 [Roman Empire]  +5 [Aragon] +4 [Arabia] +4 [Syria] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 28
 * Motive: +5 +3 +3 +3 = 4.25
 * Morale: +3 - 20 = -17
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits:  8160
 * UTC (01:00): 0*1*0*0 = 1
 * (8160/1)*pi:  25635.3960533
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/175,000 = +0.5
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(55.5/(55.5+49.7))*2-1= .05513

.05513*(1-1/(2*2))= 4.13%

Discussion
Will start this when I get back home and when Edge tells me how exactly this algo should work.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 21:19, May 14, 2015 (UTC)

Neither Faction has greater than 50% of the population, but collectivly they had 50-60% ~Edge

Dammit Edge.

Still heavily in construction.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 20:45, May 15, 2015 (UTC)

Algonquia
Total: 77
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 +3 +3 +3 +5 = 18
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3 + 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7 + 10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Arcadia 2.0
Total: 45
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
26% max

13% in a year

19% in 2

Discussion
Kill it before it lays eggs...

Why is Morale -2? ~Edge

Low morale penalty combined with defender's morale. Shikata ga nai! 22:42, May 15, 2015 (UTC)

Bengali Coalition
Result: 94.6
 * Location: +8+4+4/3 = 5.3
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Bahamani] +3 [Udaipur] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 24
 * Motive: +7+7+3/3 = 5.6
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +9
 * Edits: 1483
 * UTC (03:05): 0*3*0*5 = 15
 * (1483/15)*pi: 310.59879
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [More Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/175,000 = 1.7
 * Participation: +10

Punjab Confederacy
Result: 50.5
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +3 [Punjab]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]
 * Chance: +8
 * Edits: 1483
 * UTC (03:05): 0*3*0*5 = 15
 * (1483/15)*pi: 310.59879
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 175,000/300,000 = +0.5
 * Participation: +10

Results
(94.6/(94.6+50.5))*2 -1 = 0.303928

22.7% in a two years.

Algonquia
Total: 73
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 +3 +3 +3 +5 = 18
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3 + 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7 + 10
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent Wars: -4

Arcadia 2.0
Total: 41
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent Wars: -4

Result
Same as before, meaning Arcadia 2.0 is toppled in 2 years.

Discussion
...

Bengali Coalition
Result: 83.6
 * Location: +8+4+4/3 = 5.3
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3 [Bahamani] +3 [Udaipur] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 24
 * Motive: +7+7+3/3 = 5.6
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +6
 * Edits: 1494
 * UTC (00:21): 0*0*2*1 = 2
 * (1494/2)*pi: 2346.76971223
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [More Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/175,000 = 1.7
 * Participation: +10

Punjab Confederacy
Result: 51.5
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +3 [Punjab]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]
 * Chance: +9
 * Edits: 1494
 * UTC (00:21): 0*0*2*1 = 2
 * (1494/2)*pi: 2346.76971223
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 175,000/300,000 = +0.5
 * Participation: +10

Results
(83.6/(83.6+51.5))*2 -1 = 0.23670177

(23.670177)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 11.8350885

11.8% in a single year, added up with 22.7% from the previous war makes 34.5%.

Algonquia
Total: 96
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 = 23
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3 + 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7 + 20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 70,000/20,000=3
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Recent Wars: -4

Rebels
Total: 39
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Rekt

Discussion
...

AyutthataEdit
<p style="font-size:16px;line-height:26px;">Total: 43.64
 * Location:  +4 (close to location of war, and Burma borders us)
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: +.5 (S) +3 (larger economy)= 3.5
 * Motive: +3+7+5 =15 (Economic, political hegemony,similar culture but different nation)
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: (91/126=.722) +2
 * Nation Age: -5 (Ancient Nation)
 * Population: 3,000,000=7 (I have no idea how to find out the population at that era. You can correct me if I am wrong)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 75,000/ 35,000= 2.14
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Recent Wars: 0

BurmaEdit
<p style="font-size:16px;line-height:26px;">Total: 38.75
 * Location: +8 (Bordering us)
 * Tactical Advantage:  +8 (Jungle/tropical)
 * Strength:  -0.25 (V)
 * Motive: +9 (Fatal attack)
 * Morale : -5 (Strength less than 50%)
 * Chance: +2
 * Nation Age: -5 (Ancient Nation)
 * Population: 3,000,000=7 (Again, estimates from the articles I've managed to find in the internet)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops:  200,000/100,000=1 (How do I even know this if the country has no player?)
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

ResultEdit
(43.64/43.64+38.75))*2-1= 78.5

78.5*(1-1/2*2))=19.37...%?

DiscussionEdit
I'm pretty sure this is probably the most mistake-ridden algo you guys have ever seen. This is why I won't treat this as official until someone helps me with this xD Erizium (talk) 14:23, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Japan
Hi, I have rentered from my long absence and I am interested in playing Japan. The current player has not posted since April 19, 2015. May I please play as Japan? KawaiiKame (talk) 00:49, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:22, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Resignation
I, Erizium, do hereby resign from the Principia Modernia III Map Game due to my extensive lack of knowledge about the era

And the fact that I feel like a idiot for forgetting there were pages for nations with their statistics in it xD

But seriously though, I resign

Erizium (talk) 07:01, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Hesperian Coalition
Total:75.5
 * Location:+8+8/2=8*1=8
 * Tactical:+2+6=8
 * Strenght:4+3.75+3.75+3
 * Motive:5+5=10/2=5
 * Morale:3+3/2=3+5
 * Chance:
 * 3*5*8=120
 * 2023/120*pi=52.962
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troop Numbers:150,000/50,000 (Number Given by MP)=+3
 * Participation:+10

England
Total:38.75
 * Location:+15-8(*.625)=+10
 * Tactical:+5
 * Strenght:+3.75+5
 * Motive:9+5/2=7
 * Morale:-10
 * Chance:2
 * Population:+8-2
 * Nation Age:+0
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troops:0
 * Participation:+10

Result
24% in 2 years.

Algonquia and Borealia
Total: 88.25
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4 (Algonquia) + 4 (Borealia) +3.75 (Hamburger helper) + 3 (Econ) + 3 (Mil)
 * Motive: 7+5+3/2=7.5
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 1,582
 * UTC: 2:22 = 2*2*2 = 8
 * 1582*Pi/8 = 621.2499...
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/115,000= 1
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Event: -3

United Nordic Republics
Total: 69.65*1.5 (Popular revolt)=104.47
 * Location: 10.6
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+10 (Arctic)
 * Strength: 5 (Helluland) +5 (Iceland) + 3.75 (Norway) + 3.75 (Denmark) +3.75 (Sweden) + 2.5 (Finland) +3 (Econ) +3 (Mil) +5 (Naval)
 * Motive: 4+3=7/2=3.5
 * Morale: 3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 6,826
 * UTC: 2:22 = 2*2*2 = 8
 * 6,826*Pi/8 = 2680.564...
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Troops strength: ~115,000 (25,000 from Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden. Maybe 15,000 from Helluland? Even that's a bit much...)
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Defeats: 0
 * Event: -3

Discussion
I'm sure there will be some...

Summary of changes: Added my stuff. As far as I can tell, Kras' algo looks good to go, though I don't think there's a modifier for attacking colonies. Only other concern from me is that I doubt this would be a surprise attack. Tensions were kinda high and I think Helluland knew what was coming to them. Crim de la Crème 15:25, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't know where those bonuses are coming from
 * Borealia has more motives to invade
 * The UNR was literally just created
 * We have about the same population
 * Borealia hasn't had a war in thirty years
 * Reme is helping out as well
 * 1.5 multiplyer for attacking colonies

This is ridiculous. Some vassal spamming is one thing, but Crim is winning this war only because his nation is hugely subdivided. By splitting it up, he's gained about 15 points. i'm not sure if mods will step in or not, but I can guarantee one thing - my nation, and probably a lot of other ones, are going to be arbitrarily subdivided after this war. The UNR should fight as one entity - it's ludicrous that this division should give him 15 extra points. Shikata ga nai! 15:44, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Crim has some issues: Nathan1123 (talk) 16:12, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * The 1.5 multiplyer for popular revolts most certianly does not apply here (that's why MP was surprised you asked, it's supposed to be bad for you)
 * -10 nation age (the UNR was created less than 5 turns ago)
 * -3 for vassal spamming (although I agree that the UNR should be treated as one unit)
 * On that note, there is no way all of those nations are sending more than economic support
 * how do you have naval dominence if Helluland is land-locked?

I won't change it myself until a mod takes a look at it, but I'm pretty sure Crim made some mistakes. Nathan1123 (talk) 16:35, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Not the most skilled at algos, but there are some things amiss.

First, I would like to consult with Sky and Edge regarding the multiple nations Crim has, as it does seem suspicious and clearly in his favor.

Second, I'm not going to accept that Reme is in the war unless I hear it from Sat himself. Since he's supposed to be back today, that shouldn't be difficult.

If Crim is in fact using all those nations, all of his averages and scores need to have imput from all six.

I don't recall there being a 1.5 modifier for attacking colonies and I can't appear to find it in the new algo rules. If someone could point it out for me, that would be great.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 16:49, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Let me go down the list and adress these issues.
 * 1) From what I can tell, there is no 1.5 multiplier for attacking colonies in the new algo. Sky would know better, but looking at the previous colonial wars with the New Algo(Andea vs Portugal and Andea vs England), a 1.5 multiplier doesn't seem to be in effect.
 * 2) Crim dividing his nation is... odd. But, from what I can tell, it was that way before the war began. So it is not like he divided his nation up just for this war. Granted his posts seem to imply (To me) that his government was some form of USSR. I will hear both sides for this.
 * 3) Popular Revolt could logically be given to Crim. As I did not create the event, I have no idea if it was intended to be this way.
 * 4) Naval Domenice Refers to Scandinavia who would send it's navy to defend it's colony/puppet/slave. Nation age should be -10, averaged across the UNR.
 * 5) Vassal Spam should be a -3 penelty IIRC.
 * 6) Everything else is beyond my realm of knowledge. I will look into things. For now however, this algo is locked to only non-participant mods. If you have any statements or changes you wish to make, do so here.

Reme is definitely in the war - Sat posted accordingly on the PMIII page in the recent turn. Shikata ga nai! 20:44, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

I said these things on chat a few times, but I'll say them again.

The UNR is not a nation. It's a politico-economic union of the nordic nations following the Scandinavian revolution. Think the EU, but entirely Nordic. I created it with the goal of posting for each member state. Scandinavia is a pain to keep unified; the people are too different and the terrain doesn't allow for much communication. This allows for more in-depth turns on my part and really allows for me to post the happenings of my civilization, which is admittedly a large one. I didn't make it with the intention of going to war in my mind. If I wanted to do that, I'd have done this earlier. Basically, I'd be neutral. Like Switzerland. Kras kinda wrecked that, but whatever.

This isn't vassal spam. Not by a long shot. Can it be abused? You bet. So can the vassal system and we have limits/restrictions on vassals. IMO, this is a great way to manage a large empire. Kras, you are encouraged to do this because your nation (and mine) should have been Balkanized long ago.

Of course, balkanization and controlling the whole thing raises concerns, ergo the need for limits and restrictions to be placed on the system. The mods are discussing this as we speak. I'd like to raise how I've limited this already so I'm not overpowered. Anyhoo, I really do hope I can keep playing as a supranational union. It's interesting, fun, and plausible. I think the ability to do this should be restricted to large, multi-ethnic nations (like Algonquia). MP proposed this and I like this idea: declarations of war should be RNGed or mod controlled as the situation permits.
 * 1) I only have one nation at war: Iceland. The others are sending support, if that. Finland is sending money. Basically, the only one at war is Iceland (and Helluland, which is a colony)
 * 2) I have five nations in this union, all of whom have unique identities. They aren't arbitrarily split as Kras said.
 * 3) I recognized pretty soon after writing the algo that I had it in my capability to absolutely wreck Kras and his crew with this, so I made sure to limit even support.

On a much different note, Reme is not at war. They're sending troops/artillery. Crim de la Crème 22:32, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Also, I should say that if I ran this as one nation, my score (without chance and modifier) is 74. My score with ZOMG ALL AT WAR was a 60. That last score might be wrong because I'm bad at math and did that on the fly, but that should say something. Is this really OP?Crim de la Crème 22:44, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

I thought MP was already clear about this. You can't play as multiple nations. You certianly can't play as a multi-national organization. Nathan1123 (talk) 22:47, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, there's a reason large supranational unions weren't formed pre-1900, and still are largely dysfunctional today - because they just don't work very well. Can anyone imagine the EU forming at the time of the Franco-Prussian War? No, for obvious reasons; the nationalistic rivalries and powerful economic spheres of individual nations at this point in time make it both impractical and disadvantageous. These issues would be exacerbated in a nation that had just bloodily revolted against an oppressive government.

But setting that aside, by setting up his nation in this way, Crim has gained 21 points in the algo versus fighting as one unified country. It's entirely possible that he's playing it for fun and plausibility, as he said, but the fact remains that an administrative quirk in his nation essentially makes it a military superpower. I've got no issue with supranational unions, but they shouldn't be able to use all of their subdivisions as separate entities in a conflict, otherwise we end up with a new Caliphate. I also find it odd that one person can play as a multinational/superanational organization. Isn't the premise of map games that each person plays as one nation, not six? Shikata ga nai! 23:03, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Crim, your proposed experiment has already been done. It's called PMII. Do you really want to be the cause of the end of PMIII simply because of your unexplained affinity to Nunavut cariboo? Nathan1123 (talk) 01:43, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

There's a big difference between your scenario and the UNR. As far as that 21 points thing, where am I getting these 21 points. I encourage you to look into my nation's scores with the UNR as one entity and the UNR fighting as all five (and Helluland). You'll be surprised. These supranational entities prevent Caliphates. Algonquia itself is pretty Caliphatey and could benefit from doing this. Hell, I'd help set it up for you. People in PM have played more than one nation before. Vassals, PUs, puppet nations, etc. Let's also not forget that people have played their colonies after revolts.

I think the buzz about these supranational organizations is largely reactionary hype. Give it time. Crim de la Crème 01:56, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

I've looked into it. If it was one entity, you'd get a score of 16 for strength. By splitting it and using each part separately, you get a score of 34.75. The split has allowed you to more than double your score in this section. Those numbers speak for themselves.

Crim, the issue with the Caliphate (as I understand it) was that each part could be used separately in an algo, giving it gigantic scores.If anything, this issue is worse with your nation, because not only are all of your sub-nations somehow independent, but scores are no longer divided by the number of nations involved, meaning that you're going to get even larger scores than under the previous system. As I understood it, PMIII was moving in the direction of modern, united nations with provinces or other subdivision that don't get treated separately in an algo, thus preventing vassal spam. IMHO, supranational unions are fine, but a) being supranational one person shouldn't play the entire thing, the same way no one could play the HRE or the EU and b)if one person is playing as them, then they should be treated as one entity in an algo. Simple solution.

On another note, if the algo works out as Crim has set it up, I've got a couple issues. First, Helluland isn't an independent entity and has never acted as one in algos or within the game. It shouldn't become one now. Second, if the rest of the Union other than Iceland is just sending aid, Crim loses the +2 for larger population, and Borealia/Algonquia gain a +20 bonus for 10 times larger population, since Iceland's pop. is about 1 million and aiders' populations aren't counted. Finally, Crim's motive shouldn't be +10, since Helluland isn't a nation that can be wiped out, but a territory of Iceland, and a sparsely populated one at that. Shikata ga nai! 11:11, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Hamburg joined in the war, so they should be factored in as well. Also, Iceland has a lot less than a million people. Today, OTL Icland has only 300K people, while Nunavut has only 30K. Nathan1123 (talk) 13:21, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Exactly. My strength is boosted by 36 if I brought everyone in. Keep in mind the negative impacts of bringing everyone into the war (recent wars, location, motive scores absolutely plummet). The reason Helluland is considered an independent entity is because it's being attacked. That's generally how colonial algos work. A bunch of problems with the algo have been raised and I don't think anyone's edited the algo to reflect them, so I'm doing that now. Regarding Nathan's concern, Hamburg is lending support, not joining the war. Iceland's population is 1 Mil in PM and has been for a bit. OTL pops here are not pops in ATL. Crim de la Crème 13:33, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

So in the current situaton, Crim playing as all 5 (6?) nations is irrelevent. His UNR had one of it's member states attacked and they would likely come to the aid of their ally. Now. For both sides. I want a list of nations written out here and what they are doing for the war. #PraiseRoosevelt. 14:08, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

United Nordic Republics: Algonquia's Side Crim de la Crème 14:20, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Helluland: Attacked by algonquia. Fighting as itself as per colonial rules.
 * Iceland: Owner of Helluland. Declared war upon by Algonquia.
 * Norway, Sweden, and Denmark: All sending military aid to the war effort. No declaration of war.
 * Finland: Sending money and food to the war effort. No declaration of war.
 * Algonquia. Declared war.
 * Borealia: Declared war.
 * Hamburg: Sending aid.
 * Reme: Sent aid. Pulled out.

If you're acting as the UNR, then they should act as one unit. Meaning that you should get only 5 strength, not 36. You justify playing as multiple nations because people have done it before as vassals/PU? Then you're admitting to vassal spamming. If they are not acting as vassals/PU, then you can only play as one of them. Nathan1123 (talk) 14:48, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

If it's alright, I took the liberty of correcting more of the complaints. Undo if I didn't have the authority. Nathan1123 (talk) 14:56, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

From past discussion and previous precidents, it looks like to me that we have two options here, unless anyone else would like to suggest otherwise. Honestly, those are the only ways I could see this working, otherwise the entire situation gets messy and confusing as well as a clear target for potential abuse, which I will not allow. Pick your poison.
 * 1) Crim can play as one nation in the UNR and have major decisions for the other nations be decided by a neutral mod.
 * 2) Crim can post as all five/six of the nations but the UNR would collectively count as one nation in the algo.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 15:31, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

I have four questions here which I would like to be addressed.
 * 1) I would like to question the motives of Algonquia and Borealia. From what it seems, Algonquia has 'enforce political hegemony' or 'aid kinsmen' whereas Borealia has 'taking territory of similar culture' or 'Pre-emptive strike'. However, could these motives truly be applied to their respective nations? The answer of that question is no.
 * 2) Any observer would easily note that the reason for the Algonquian offense is due to the fact that UNR expansion in Northern America 'blocked' Algonquia from further expanding. This easily leads on to conclude that Algonquia would've attacked to 'Gain Lands' and should receive a +3. There is no need for Algonquia to 'enforce political hegemony' because there is no threat to Algonquia itself or to Algonquian influence but to Algonquian imperial desires. As for 'aid kinsmen', I am quite sure that Helluland is completely populated by ethnic Nordics and as such, there is no criteria for 'aid kinsmen' to be applied in this case. Therefore, as has already been stated, the Algonquian motive would be to Gain Lands.
 * 3) As for Borealia, if I am not wrong, the state of Borealia consists of ethnic Spaniards, French, Native Americans as well as Bavarians. However, that still does not provide any general evidence as to how Borealia could possibly invade Nordic Helluland with the motive "taking territory of similar culture" for I am quite sure that the Nordics and Borealians do not have similar cultures. That brings in the second motive which leads on to question, did Helluland engage in any sort of 'rapid military buildup'? No, they did not. The UNR itself just came out of a civil war, hence that means that the only motive Borealia could possibly apply for itself in this conflict would be to Gain Lands or Aid Ally.
 * 4) As has already been pointed out by Krasnoyarsk, why is the UNR receiving a +5 for Naval Dominance despite the fact that Helluland is land-locked and the war is centered around Helluland. While it could be possible for the UNR to disrupt Algonquian Atlantic trade, that does not have anything to do with the algorithm and the war.
 * 5) The war is being fought in an area which the UNR can only access through the Hudson Bay or the Arctic Sea. The former remains frozen throughout the year, except from late June to early November. That brings in the question as to whether the UNR has the capability to deploy and supply a force of 115,000 without suffering mass attrition. This also reinforces the first question, which is whether the UNR could possibly blockade the Hudson Bay.
 * 6) I would like to question as to why the UNR has received a +10 for Arctic/Tundra conditions. From what I know, Algonquia and Helluland share similar geographical conditions which diminishes the entire idea of Algonquia suffering from the Arctic conditions and Helluland receiving a bonus. To put it simply, there is no need for Helluland to get a +10 for Arctic since Algonquia itself has a sorta 'Arctic landscape' in some areas. I would now be quoting MP in regards to what he told me when I questioned why California did not receive a bonus for having a desert, during the Mexecan Invasion of California. 
 * "Mexaca has desert as well, so I believe the respective bonuses cancel out, since both sides would know how to fight in desert." ~ Monster Pumpkin [1]


 * I am quite sure this can be applied to the Algonquian Invasion of Helluland and hence, there is no need for the UNR to receive a +10 bonus for Location.

<font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣

It's sometimes annoying to have Rimp challenge every algo, but it's a good thing, so I thank him for it. Regarding your point about how there are no natives in Helluland, that is extremely unlikely unless Crim did something very drastic, which would require a war of its own in due course. OTL Nunavut has some of the most native areas in Canada, so the idea that there are none is a bit of a stretch. However, I cast doubt on the idea that liberating them was the original cause of the war.

I don't think Helluland is landlocked, although if Crim corrects me that will obviously change.

I'm pretty sure location should be negative for everyone other than Helluland and Iceland, since the others are all clearly in Europe and what not.

Yeah, the arctic thing should cancel, since both sides should know what they're doing, unless someone wants to initiate a challenge and suggest that they have no experience in arctic warfare.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 15:43, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

It's not about the actual motive, but the motive presented to the troops, world and people, which is liberation. Also I can confirm Helluland is not landlocked, although it is frozen in for half or more of the year. Shikata ga nai! 16:49, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

I said it was landlocked because a) the majority of the fighting is over land, so the Nordic navy won't help, b) Kras doesn't aparently care about the Hudson coast, and c) what coast Helluland does have would most certainly be frozen over ordinarily, even moreso due to the mod event. Nathan1123 (talk) 17:11, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

To all intents and purposes it is.Shikata ga nai! 17:57, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Roman Empire
Total: 90.5
 * Location: -3.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5 +3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: +8
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 8703
 * UTC (11:00) = 1*1*1*1=1
 * 8703/1 * pi = 27340.4745
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 240,000/40,000=6
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:
 * Recent Wars: -3

Venad
Total: 38
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -10-5
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 8703
 * UTC (11:00) = 1*1*1*1=1
 * 8703/1 * pi = 27340.4745
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(90.5/(90.5+38))*2-1=.40 something or other = .345000

Toppled in 3 years.

Republic of Ezo
Can i still play as the Republic of Ezo (aka independent Hokkaido) or is it too late? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ezo

Please sign your posts. As for question, you're roughly 250 turns too late to be playing as the Republic of Ezo. Japan has already been united, and has a player. <font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  09:39, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

As Rimp says, so it is true. Other nations are available if you so choose.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 15:33, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Republican China/Korea/Japan
Is it OK to play as republican rebels in China (Kuomintang, or any of the like) or Korea? or still too early? IstocnoSarajevo (talk) 10:37, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

China, Korea and Japan have players. As for 'rebels', I am not aware if that is allowed. From my experience, you cannot play as a rebel state, until that said rebel state has rebelled and established defacto control. <font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  16:32, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Still a bit early republican wise.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 16:39, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Bengali Coalition
Result: 87.8
 * Location: +8+8+4+4+4/5 = 5.6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +4 [Jaunpur] +3 [Punjab] +3 [Bahamani] +3 [Udaipur] +5 [Much Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 32
 * Motive: +7+7+7+7+3/5 = 6.2
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic]
 * Chance: +3
 * Edits: 1604
 * UTC (08:53): 0*7*0*7 = 49
 * (1604/49)*pi: 102.839073803
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [More Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 340,000/170,000 = 2
 * Participation: +10

Vijaynagara Empire
Result: 53
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Vijaynagar]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +9
 * ​Edits: 1604
 * UTC (08:53): 0*8*5*3 = 80
 * (1604/80)*pi: 62.9889327045
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 170,000/340,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10

Results
(87.8/(87.8+53))*2 -1 =  0.24715909

( 0.2417739628 )*(1-1/(2*2)) =  0.18536932

18.54% of Vijaynagar in a period of two years.

Hashemites
Result: 63.66
 * Location: +8 = 8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 +6 = 8
 * Strength:  +4 [Arabia] +5 [Much Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 17
 * Motive: +3 = 3
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits:  3889
 * UTC (06:15): 0*6*1*5 = 30
 * (3889/30)*pi: 407.04866666...
 * Population: +8 [Population] +10
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/75,000 = +2.66
 * Participation: +10

Azerbaijan
Result: 54
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] = +5
 * Strength: +4    = 4
 * Motive: +9 = 9
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits:  3889
 * UTC (06:15): 0*6*1*5 = 30
 * (3889/30)*pi: 407.04866666...
 * Population: +7 [Population] = +7
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 75,000/200,000 = 0
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(63.66/(63.66+54))*2-1= .0821

.0821*(1-1/(2*2))= 6.15% in two years.

Discussion
So, people should probably double check this for me, since somehow Azerbaijan did better than the last war.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 19:04, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Azerbaijan got greater scores than last time because There you go!
 * Azerbaijans chance was +6 last time and +8 this time
 * You forgot to give Azerbaijan a -5 for low morale in this algo, which Azerbaijan received in the previous one

<font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  09:40, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, the storm killed my internet and I lost my progress, but Josh essentially got 24 percent with the aid of his allies in three years. If any one really wants me to redo the algo, I can, but I'd rather not right now.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 21:36, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

Aragon and co.
Result: 97.166
 * Location: (+8 +4)/2 = 6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 +6 = 8
 * Strength:  +5 [Aragon] +5 [Roman Empire] +2.5 [Andea] +5 [Much Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 25.5
 * Motive: (+5 +3)/2 = 4
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits:  17750
 * UTC (06:20): 0*6*2*0 = 12
 * ( 17750 /12)*pi: 4644.5833
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20
 * Nation Age: +5 [Mature Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Number of Troops: 700,000/150,000 = +4.6666
 * Participation: +10

Castile
Result: 53
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] = +5
 * Strength: +5    = 5
 * Motive: +9 = 9
 * Morale: -2 -5 = -7
 * Chance: 3
 * Edits:  17750
 * UTC (06:20): 0*6*2*0 = 12
 * ( 17750 /12)*pi: 4644.5833
 * Population: +8 [Population] = +8
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(97.166/(97.166+53))*2-1= .2941

.2941*(1-1/(2*2))= 22.05% in two years.

Discussion
Done for now.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 19:21, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Andea and Co.

 * Location:8.5
 * Tactical:+2+6=8
 * Strenght:5 [Andea] 3.75 (Osea) + 5 [French Loyalists in Colombia]=+13.75+ 3 (Larger Eco) + 3 (Better Mlitary) +3 (Fully Moblizied)=22.75


 * Motive:3 (Andea)+3 (Osea)+ 7 (French Loyalists)=13/3=4.3


 * Morale:3+3+3=3


 * Chance:

Total:73.55
 * UTC:8:5:4= 160
 * Edit Count: 2053
 * 2053/160*pi=40.310
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:-4
 * Troop Numbers:175,000/25,000=+7
 * Particiaption:+10

French Revolutionary Government

 * Location:

Disscussion
After disscussing with Ace on Chat, I found out he gave Colombia it's indpendence. Permisson was granted by MP to cancel this war.

Russia
Result: 56 x 1.5 = 84
 * Location: 8 = 8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 +6 = 8
 * Strength:  +4 [Russia] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] = 13
 * Motive: +7 = 7
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits:  2022
 * UTC (11:43): 1*1*4*4 = 12
 * ( 2022 /12)*pi: 529.34275
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2
 * Nation Age: -5 [Newborn, popular]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 900,000/300,000 = +3
 * Participation: +10

Ruthenia
Result: 56
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] = +5
 * Strength: +4 = 4
 * Motive: +9 = 9
 * Morale: 3 -5 = -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits:  2022
 * UTC (11:43): 1*1*4*4 = 12
 * ( 2022 /12)*pi: 529.34275
 * Population: +8 [Population] = +8
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Recent Wars:
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(84/(84+56))*2-1= .2

.2*(1-1/(2*2))= 15% in two years.

Discussion
Done.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 00:10, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Damnit Toby, no one attacks Yank •-• <font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  05:03, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Mexaca & Borealia
Result: 52.3
 * Location: +8*1.0625 = +8.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage]
 * Strength: +5 [Mexaca] +3 [Fully Mobilized] = +8
 * Motive: +5=5
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] = -2
 * Chance: +6
 * ​Edits: 1610
 * UTC (17:10): 1*7*1*0 = 7
 * (1610/7)*pi: 722.566310326
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2 [Less than five times the population] = +10
 * Nation Age: +5 [Mature Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 270,000/150,000 = +1.8
 * Participation: +10
 * Multiple Fronts Penalty:  =

Hamburger Belize
Result: 62.25
 * Location: +15 [Ask Sky for Formula]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +5 [Hamburg] +3.75 [Oldenburg] +5 [Naval Dominance]  +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [larger economy] = +21.75
 * Motive: +5 [Defending Territory Not Part of Heartland]
 * Morale: +3 [Democratic]
 * Chance: +1
 * ​Edits: 3404
 * UTC (17:10): 1*7*1*0 = 7
 * (3404/7)*pi: 1527.71162755
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2
 * Nation Age: +5 [Mature Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/270,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Multiple Fronts Penalty: -12.5 (See other Fronts)

Result
(62.25/(62.25+52.3))*2 -1 = 0.0862

Discussion
Belize is an overseas province, as per the 1776 Hamburg compromise between it, New Hamburg, and New Brunswick. So again, plain 15 location. I am that guy (talk) 23:02, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Hesperian Coalition
Total: 45.725
 * Location: +4.25
 * Tactical: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +5 [Andea] +5 [Emeraldie] +4.75 [Osea] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +3 [Better Military] = +23.75/2 (Withdrawal)=11.875
 * Motive: +3+3+3/3 = +3
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +4 [2x Democratic] = +1
 * Chance: +8
 * ​Edits: 610
 * UTC (18:56): 1*8*5*6 = 240
 * (610/240)*pi: 7.984881
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2 [Less than five times the population] = +10
 * Nation Age: +10 [2x Mature Nation] -10 [Newborn Nation] = +0
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Troop Number: 280,000/175,000=1.6
 * Participation: +10

Hamburger Kuba
Result: 60.5
 * Location: 5.75 [Ask Sky for Formula]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] +6 [Amphibious Landing] +4 [Island]+8 (Jungle/Tropical) = +23
 * Strength: +5 [Hamburg] +3.75 [Oldenburg] +5 [Naval Dominance]= +13.75
 * Motive: +5 [Defending Territory Not Part of Heartland]
 * Morale: +3 [Democratic]
 * Chance: +8
 * ​Edits: 3406
 * UTC (18:56): 1*8*5*6 = 240
 * (3406/240)*pi: 44.58443
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +5 [Mature Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops:
 * Participation: +10
 * Multiple Fronts Penalty:-20 (See other Fronts)

Result
Smth, I don't think this needs calculating.

Discussion
Hamburg now has 175,000 total troops in Kuba. And the location should be 15, as I wrote several times of significant forces stationed there. I am that guy (talk) 22:26, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Location, given to me by sky and rimp, was averaged between Kuba's +15 and Hamburg's -4

Kuba is a constituent "kingdom" of the UGK like Prussia or Westphalia, therefore, 15 and no -4. I am that guy (talk) 22:32, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

That makes little sense. It is not like there is a land Bridge connecting Hamburg to Kuba. Most of the Population, production ablity, and men would come from Hamburg Proper. If it was just Kuba then it would be +15, but it is Kuba and Hamburg. if you want to make that Argument, then these precentages should include land from hamburg proper as well.#PraiseRoosevelt. 22:37, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Kuba is part of Hamburg, it's a state of it. If you want to press your last point, fine then. I am that guy (talk) 22:40, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Guy, if that was the case, then that means that the coalition is fighting Hamburg directly. Does that mean that Edge gets 6% of your state in Europe? Nathan1123 (talk) 22:43, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

I mean, if he wants highly nationalist German land, and he gets the score, I guess. I am that guy (talk) 22:50, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Borealian Coalition
Total: 60.88333...
 * Location: -3.5+4.25+8.5=9.25/3 = +3.08333...
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +5 [Borealia] +5 [Japan] +4 [Timor] +3 [Larger Economy] +3 [Fully Moblized] +5 [Naval Dominence] = +24
 * Motive: +3+3+7/3 = +4.3
 * Morale: +3 [Democratic] -4 [2x Non-Democratic] = -1
 * Chance: +4
 * ​Edits: 72
 * UTC (21:32): 2*1*3*2 = 12
 * (72/12)*pi: 18.84955
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2 [Less than five times the population] = +10
 * Nation Age: +5 [3x Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars -2
 * Troop Number: 210,000/250,000=0
 * Participation: +10
 * Multiple fronts: -5 [Belize Front]

Hamburger Phillipines
Result: 52.44
 * Location: 5.75 [Ask Sky for Formula]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] +6 [Amphibious Landing] +4 [Island] +8 (Tropical/Jungle)= +23
 * Strength: +5 [Hamburg]
 * Motive: +5 [Defending Territory Not Part of Heartland]
 * Morale: +3 [Democratic]
 * Chance: +5
 * ​Edits: +5
 * UTC (21:32): 2*1*3*2 = 12
 * (3407/12)*pi: 891.950514
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +5 [Mature Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops: 250,000/210,000=1.19
 * Participation: +10
 * Multiple Fronts Penalty: -5 [Belize] -5 [Prussia] -2.5 [Kuba] -2.5 [New Hamburg] -2.5 [New Brunswick] = -17.5

Result
(60.88333.../(60.88333+52.44))*2 -1 = 0.0745

Discussion
I brought 10,000 troops to the Pacific Front, may someone please add this to the algo? KawaiiKame (talk) 21:59, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

It's added as far as I know. Need Guy's troop numbers ASAP.

The UGK East Asian army (the combined protectorate of Cambodia, Vietnam, and southern Philippines), stands at 200,000, with New Mecklenburg sending a force of 50,000. And as I declared a "state of hostility" last turn, which mobilized the global armies out of principal, those forces were mobilized when Japan declared war, thus I believe the location should be 15. I am that guy (talk)

Is that 50,000 included in the 200,000 or sperate. #PraiseRoosevelt. 22:31, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Separate I am that guy (talk) 22:33, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

I believe Hamburg fits all the required categories to receive High Morale. <font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  04:03, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

Reme
Total:44.5
 * Location:8*1.0625=8.5
 * Tactial Advatange:+2
 * Strenght:+5 (Reme)+ 3 (better Military)=+8/2=4
 * Motive: +3 (Aiding Ally)
 * Morale:+3 (Demo)
 * Chance:  2
 * ​Edits: 3630
 * UTC (21:00): 2*1*0*0 = 2
 * (3630/2)*pi: 5701.8225
 * Popualtion:8+2=10
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:-1
 * Troop Numbers:150,000/50k = 3
 * Particiapton:+10
 * Multiple Fronts: -5 (New Brunswick)

United German Kingdoms
Total: 31.75
 * Location:+5.75 (Still need to verify with Mp and or Sky)
 * Tactical Advantage:+5
 * Location Bonus: +1.
 * Strenght:+5+3
 * Motive:+5
 * Morale:+3
 * Chance: 2
 * ​Edits: 3418
 * UTC (21:00): 2*1*0*0 = 2
 * (3418/2)*pi: 5368.8235
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:-1
 * Troop Numbers:
 * Particpation:+10
 * Multiple Fronts: -20 (See elsewhere)

Result
(44.5/(44.5+31.75))*2-1=0.167213114

Reme
Total:44.5
 * Location:8*1.0625=8.5
 * Tactial Advatange:+2
 * Strenght:+5 (Reme)+ 3 (better Military)=+8
 * Motive: +3 (Aiding Ally)
 * Morale:+3 (Demo)
 * Chance:2*1*2*1= 2
 * ​Edits: 3630
 * UTC (21:00): 2*1*0*0 = 2
 * (3630/2)*pi: 5701.8225
 * Popualtion:8+2=10
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:-1
 * Troop Numbers:150,000/50k = 3
 * Particiapton:+10
 * Multiple Fronts: -5 (New Hamburg)

United German Kingdoms
Total: 31.75
 * Location:+5.75 (Still need to verify with Mp and or Sky)
 * Tactical Advantage:+5
 * Strenght:+5+3(Larger eco)
 * Motive:+5
 * Morale:+3
 * Chance:2
 * ​Edits: 3418
 * UTC (21:00): 2*1*0*0 = 2
 * (3418/2)*pi: 5368.8235
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age:+5
 * Recent Wars:-1
 * Troop Numbers:
 * Particpation:+10
 * Multiple Fronts: -20

Result
Same as above

Grand Union

 * Location: +8*1.0625=8.5
 * Strenght: +5+3+3=11
 * Tactical: +2+6
 * Motive: +3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance:  7

Total: 53.5
 * ​Edits: 6391
 * UTC (22:34): 2*2*3*4 = 48
 * (6391/48)*pi: 418.077
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops: 300k/350k=0
 * Participation: +10
 * Multiple Fronts: -5 (Pskov)

United German Kingdoms

 * Location: (15+4)/2 x 1.0625 = 10.09
 * Strenght: +5 +5 +3
 * Tactical: +5 = 5
 * Motive: +5 +3 = 4
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance:  9

Total: 51.7567
 * ​Edits: 3418
 * UTC (22:34): 2*2*3*4 = 48
 * (3418/48)*pi: 223.594
 * Population: +8+2
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Troops: (150k + 200k) = 1.1667
 * Particiaption:+10
 * Multiple Fronts: -5 (Pacific) -5 (Belize) -2.5 (Kuba) -5 (The Reme ones) = -17.5

Result
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">(53.5/(53.5+51.7567))*2-1= .0165

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">.0165*(1-1/(2*2))= 1.24% over two years, or however long Lx wants to fight.

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 21:19, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

Russian People's Socalist Republic
Total: 50.635 x 1.3 = 65.8255
 * Location: +8+4*1.0625/2=6.125
 * Strenght: +4 [Russia] +4 [Poland] +5 [Croatia] +3.75 [France] + 3.75 [Ruthenia] +3 [Fully Mobilized]  = 23.5
 * Tactical: +2
 * Motive: +3+3=6/2=3
 * Morale:-2+3=0.5
 * Chance: 5
 * ​Edits: 2038
 * UTC (22:40): 2*2*4*0 = 16
 * (2038/16)*pi: 399.957
 * Population:+8+2
 * Nation Age: 5-10-10/2=-5
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Troop Numbers: (1.2 million +60k +70k +75k+100k) /500k = 3.01
 * Participation:+10
 * Fronts: 0

Grand Union

 * Location: +15
 * Strenght: 5+3
 * Tactical:+5
 * Motive:+9
 * Morale:+3-5-=-2
 * Chance: 3

Total: 51
 * ​Edits: 6391
 * UTC (22:40): 2*2*4*0 = 16
 * (6391/16)*pi: 1254.8329
 * Troops:
 * Population:+8
 * Nation Age:0
 * Recent Wars:
 * Particiaption:+10
 * Fronts: -5

Result
65.8255/(65.8255+51))*2-1= .1269

As above*(1-1/(2*4))= 0.11104 over four years.

So, the war was declared in 1884, so the war is over as of now? Maybe?

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 22:32, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

No, Toby's fighting for four years... "<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 21:25, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

Disscussion
Ok, so for reference sake, here is a list of where the fighting is taken place: #PraiseRoosevelt. 22:42, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Belize (Done until Things are verified and penelties added)
 * Kuba (Done until Things are verified and penelties added)
 * New Hamburg
 * New Brunswick
 * Hamburger Phillipenes
 * Hamburger Australia
 * Prussia
 * Pskov

A running list of things that need to be fixed:
 * Location in the Pacfic
 * Troops in Kuba


 * Since the troops were mobilized in the pacific after Mexacas last threat, location should be 15.
 * there are 175,000 troops in Kuba.

Also, why is there a multiple front penalty for "Newfoundland front"? I'm not involved in Newfoundland, and Oldenburg is only sending me military supplies, not actively engaging like it is against Algonquia. I am that guy (talk) 22:49, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Also, can I get my location bonus for New Hamburg, Kuba, and Lübeck? I am that guy (talk) 22:53, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Need to verify these things with MP who should be back soon. None of the algos recently have used the location bonuses (From what I am seeing with a Cntrl+F) #PraiseRoosevelt. 22:59, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Dont forget that the Grand union should have a larger economy, better trained and armed military(due to technology) and naval dominance over Russia, and that Russia is non-democratic. Russia was a backwater for the longest time, while Pskov, then the Union of Konigsberg, and later the Grand Union of Finns, Balts, and Slavs were colonial powers and economic powerhouses, aswell as new inventions such as the rifle and the Keudez-Uzvardz gun.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:08, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh I would split the Pacfic front in 2 but again, need to see what the other mods say.BTW Changed the name cause I thought it fit. #PraiseRoosevelt. 23:37, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

As far as I have been able to find out, location bonuses only apply if the fighting is taking palce there.

Both sides got better military in Russia because one side had numbers one side had training and tech.

fair enough-Lx (leave me a message) 00:52, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

oh and I believe surprise attack bonus is added to the attacker, not the defender(it was added to Hamburger Prussia not the GU)-Lx (leave me a message) 00:55, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

Bavaria has joined the war on Hamburg's side. I've fully mobilized and sent 200,000 troops to Prussia and 125,000 troops to Kuba. I may send more troops to more places, idk yet.Cookiedamage (talk) 01:31, June 1, 2015 (UTC)


 * Bavaria has sent 82,000 troops to stand-by at Pearl River in case an invasion of Reme occurs. Cookiedamage (talk)

Reme withdrew from Neu Hamburg and Neu Brunswick. Saturn120 02:21, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

With Reme having withdrawn from Neu Hamburg and Neu Brunswick, would it be justified for me to remove those two fronts from the main algorithm? Stuff dat happened. <font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  03:48, June 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Reme has withdrawn from Neu Hamburg and Neu Brunswick
 * 2) Bavaria is participating in the Andean Invasion of Kuba and the Pskovian Invasion of Prussia
 * 3) Andea and Hamburg have signed a Peace Treaty

Well, that ended quickly. All things considered, I just want Belize, and will be happy to pull out of the war. Also, why the hell are you all pulling outof a war we're winning? I mean, we can get Britannia and.....anyone else to help us. Spartian300 (talk) 08:49, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

That is for the players to decide, whether they'd want to participate in the war or withdraw. Also, I am quite sure that more players joining on your side would most likely result in players joining the other side as well. A good example is how Russia and Bavaria intervened after Pskov attacked. <font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  16:23, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

Can we remove the two algos associated with Sats now-cancelled invasion, as well as remove Andea from the algo? I am that guy (talk) 17:23, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

Dont forget the glorious revolution bonus Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

So lets see the results. In total, Hamburg and Co achieved victories in 5/7 fronts.
 * Belize Front: Borealian Victory
 * Kuban Front: Hamburger Victory
 * Pacific Front: Borealian - Japanese Victory
 * Neu Hamburg Front: Hamburger Victory
 * Neu Brunswick Front: Hamburger Victory
 * Prussian Front: Hamburger Victory
 * Pskovian Front: Socialist Victory

<font color="#057D31">♣There is no good or evil:  <font color="#7D0552">only power and those too weak to seek it♣  05:29, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

All I wanted was Belize, so I'm good for making peace. Spartian300 (talk) 08:39, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

Somebody forgot to multiply my location by 1.0625 in the Russian algo because industry level 5.-Lx (leave me a message) 13:05, June 2, 2015 (UTC

Spar, everyone is leaving cause to stay in would be fighting a giant war for 1% of Kuba, Hamburg, whatever. It's not worth it to fight 3 years to get jack. #PraiseRoosevelt. 18:35, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

Aight, first off, everyone fighting me dont get high morale because they all fail the motive requirement, secondly, where in the world is my "fully mobilized" and "better military" bonus(you better guess why, 90% of the military fighitng me is russian, and we already established that I have better trained/armed than russia, which is 90% of forces, so I am better than 90-95% which is deftly more than necessary). Also Russia is level 4 industry so no *1.0625 for them, and you forgot that for me. Also, you edited your own side of the algo sky. that I believe that is also a penalty for editing a LOCKED ALGO. -Lx (leave me a message) 16:21, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

I didn't give nobody a high morale bonus so... next thing. You can't be fully mobilized if you were previously fighting on another front. i.e. Since you attacked Prussia first, you don't get a fully mobilized on this front. Better military also includes troop number, which you lack. Heavily. You don't get the multiplier, neither positive nor negative cause you're a defender. And no, if you had paid more attention yesterday you'd've known that MP gave me permission to edit away. SkyGreen24 17:46, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

I doubt that applied to a side that you are actively participating in. Also, if you didnt give Russia a +5 for morale, then why is there a +5 in Motive for Russia and Germany? My nation is fully mobilized for war. It matters not that two fronts are active, the Nazis were fully mobilized for war, and they fought two fronts, that point is moot. -Lx (leave me a message) 18:20, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

Feel free to doubt whatever you want, the permission stays. I honestly don't rember giving those two a +5. The Nazis were attackers in those two fronts, which means they used were prepared to use their full military. You on the other hand, didn't immediately expect an attack from Russia while Pskov was primarily focusing on Prussia. But I'll double-check it with the other mods, just in case. SkyGreen24 21:01, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

Algonquia
Total: 79.75
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4 + 3 + 3 +3 + 2.75
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +8
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits: 1617
 * UTC (15:20) = 1*5*2*0 = 10
 * 1617/10 * pi = 507.981
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7 + 2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 150,000/30,000= 5
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: -4

Oldenburg
Total: 53.68
 * Location: 11.68
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 5 + 5
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 3
 * Edits: 3371
 * UTC (15:20) = 1*5*2*0
 * 3371/10 * pi = 1059.03
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(79.75/(79.75+53.68))*2-1= 0.1953

0.1953*(1-1/(2*2))=0.146

14.6% of Oldenburg territory can be taken in two years.

Aragon
Result: 77.66
 * Location: +8 = 8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2  = 2
 * Strength:  +5 [Aragon]  +5 [Much Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance]= 21
 * Motive: 5 = 5
 * Morale: +3 +5 = 8
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits:  17780
 * UTC (20:14): 2*0*1*4 = 8
 * ( 17780 /8)*pi: 6981.98375
 * Population: +8 [Population] +2
 * Nation Age: +5 [Mature Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Number of Troops: 550,000/150,000 = +3.66666
 * Participation: +10

Castile
Result: 49
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage] = +5
 * Strength: +5    = 5
 * Motive: +9 = 9
 * Morale: -2 -5 -2 = -9
 * Chance: 3
 * Edits:  17780
 * UTC (20:14): 2*0*1*4 = 8
 * ( 17780 /8)*pi: 6981.98375
 * Population: +8 [Population] = +8
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Participation: +10

Results
<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">(77.66/(77.66+49))*2-1= .2262

.2262*(1-1/(2*1))= 11.31% in one year. With the 22.05% from the last war, the grand total is 33.36%. Aragon conquers.

Discussion
Done. Now give me Galicia.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave   but you are welcome in it. " 16:54, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

u fkin wot m8

05:44, June 2, 2015 (UTC)