Talk:Main Page/archive3

Problem
The page World 1970-1980 (Chaos) has been edited so many times by a vandal anything after the last edit I get a message saying that it can't be undone because there are other edits before it. Can anyone fix the page? Mr.Xeight 22:20, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

There. I just copied in the last reasonable edit over the page. That's kind of brute force way of doing it, but I think that works. Red VS Blue 22:27, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I blocked the two anons causing the trouble. FYI, next time report any vandalism on TSPTF page. Mitro 00:27, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Vampire
Check out this article: Vampire. Apparently this article is currently locked from editing until a decision is made on whether it should remain with the wiki...but that was done in 2006. So what does everyone say? Can it stay or should it be deleted? Mitro 08:25, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

to start this article is well written and could be part of an OTL I say keep it Owen1983 11:55, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Owen I believe you mean to say "ATL" not OTL. Read the article we have on OTL, I think you will find you have been using the acronym wrongly. Mitro 16:21, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me...
or has there been a sudden spike in users who don't understand this Wiki doesn't cover future history.? As of lately, I've seen an increasing number of TLs marked for deletion because they covered future events.Jack Vexx 01:18, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Funny you should mention that, especially since the sentence "While Future Histories are interesting, as is Science Fiction, these are not within the scope of our wiki" shows up on the main page itself. Mitro 03:24, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Locked Out
Hi everyone, I'm back from a (failed) period of fasting from electronics!

To make sure I wasn't tempted to log into the wikis and break my vow (which I did nonetheless), I had another person reset my password to something only they knew. Now (no surprise to me), they forgot the password, and I'm locked out from my account. The person originally made an error when typing in the password, and forgot what the misspelled word was. Things only get worse...

I have three emails, one for business, the other two for pleasure. Apparently none of the three are the ones I registered to this account, so I receive no message to reset my password. Is there anything perhaps the people at Central Wikia can do? Is the only thing I can do is make a new account?

71.239.255.38 01:48, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would try finding the email you used when you originally registered your username. If you really can't find it then I would contact someone at Wikia and see what they can do. If that still doesn't work just create a new username. Mitro 14:13, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

I contacted them last night, but I'm worried with the quality of my computer that the message might not have gone through. I didn't have to send it from email address, my help message was sent through their website. I'm unsure if it got there successfully since I've been having problems sending out messages recently. Is there anything I can do now besides wait?

71.239.255.38 04:53, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * You could always create a new user name so you can edit under a name for the time being. Mitro 18:41, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

It's good to be back :) Mr.Xeight 23:42, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Watchlist
Is anyone else pissed that Wikia ended the watchlist feature? Mitro 01:53, May 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Pissed off might be a little strong. But ya I'm definitely upset. I have to either scroll all the way down to my widget or go through a bunch of menus to get to an update of the pages I'm following. I'm guessing there's no way to restore it here, eh? Red VS Blue 02:08, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you type in "Special:Watchlist" in the search bar, it will bring up the old watchlist. Mitro 03:11, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can change your skin under preferences - that's what I'm using - monobook, I think it is. I still have my watchlist in the upper-right corner. Louisiannan 20:26, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Current events and althistory
How recently can a fork start? Thus, for example - the UK general election being won by a single party/going into a more complex situation at present, or the Polish plane crash causing disruption between Poland and Russia/the plane crash involving participants in the earlier event at Katyn? Jackiespeel 21:57, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * We discourage any timeline from progressing beyond the present day. So if you started a timeline with the polish plane crash, or the UK election, it would have to only go up until 5/9/10, and so it would be a very short alternate history, but it could unfold more real time. 1983: Doomsday goes along this route, with the discovery of history and the exploration of current events. Louisiannan 23:00, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Could a mention be made on the Conventions page/future history section?

Both suggestions could, of course be backdated (ie any UK historical election, hung parliament apart from 1974, and Katyn 60th anniversary plane crash(es) - which might inclued Karol Wojtyla/Pope John Paul II and/or Lech Walesa - I am referring to the April 7 2010 event in my previous posting). Jackiespeel 17:36, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * To be honest I was thinking of doing a UK 2010 Election althistory where the Lib Dems get their 100+ seats they were expecting :p the "role" of that kind of timeline would be largely reactionary (ie the moments afterwards) so it wouldn't really need to go into future issues. Mikebloke 21:44, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Other 2010 possibilities would include various minor parties get significant representations (so effectively several party Parliament), 'one constituency one party', voters' strike (I don't think there is a legal minimum number of votes required as distinct from 'perception of too few votes to be viable), and one major party not having any candidates elected.

And - the 1974 elections and 'rise of the SDP' versions could be develeoped, allowing a longer timeline. Jackiespeel 15:19, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

9/11 Alternate History exemption act
Why is it that, in nearly every timeline I see, no matter how far back the POD is, we always end up with a terrorist attack on September 11th 2001 against the dominant superpower? I don't have quite as much an issue with the abundance of WWIs and WWIIs all starting at the same time across countless AltHists, as they involve large geopolitical trends, but why would a change back in 12th century Rome result in a terrorist attack by a tiny cell of people who probably wouldn't even have been born in the ATL hijacking the same number of planes and crashing them into the same targets as OTL? (I don't think that there is an ATL involving a POD in 12th century Rome, I'm just using it to illustrate my point.)

I'm just wondering if anyone else is as mildly frustrated with this as I am. Fegaxeyl 13:34, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The phenomenom you are referencing is called "parallel history" and is generally a sign of poor alternate history, usually done by beginners. Harry Turtledove is well known for this actually. Despite the implausibility of it, I would not reccomend banning it completely as the title of this topic suggests. Such a thing smacks of censorship and would discourage new editors. Mitro 16:15, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually the title is a reference to TV Tropes wiki, which has a 'Hitler's Time Travel Exemption Act' which involves basically the same thing - no matter how history is changed through time travel, Hitler comes to power (and often does better) regardless. Fegaxeyl 16:41, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember reading a short story on the Hitler vs time travelers angle. It turned out to be some sort of "convention" of time travelers, all coming back to the same date. They ended up killing the "good Hitler" who was replaced by a "bad Hitler" double (or perhaps the "good Hitler" was a double set up by Hitler's regime). Mitro is right, that is poor alternate history. The same thing shows up with with assasinations unless the Alternate history is specifically about saving the particular victim. I recently had to work getting a particular victim in place to be killed by the same person on the same day (the main editor had written the assasination in, and I didn't want to change his work too much).
 * Long story short, no "exemption" need be written, but let this be a warning -- poor alternate history is not followed as faithfully as good alternate history. If a time line does not have the build up of animosity leading to a particular terrorist act, then that act shouldn't happen "on schedule." SouthWriter 01:47, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember reading a short story on the Hitler vs time travelers angle. It turned out to be some sort of "convention" of time travelers, all coming back to the same date. They ended up killing the "good Hitler" who was replaced by a "bad Hitler" double (or perhaps the "good Hitler" was a double set up by Hitler's regime). Mitro is right, that is poor alternate history. The same thing shows up with with assasinations unless the Alternate history is specifically about saving the particular victim. I recently had to work getting a particular victim in place to be killed by the same person on the same day (the main editor had written the assasination in, and I didn't want to change his work too much).
 * Long story short, no "exemption" need be written, but let this be a warning -- poor alternate history is not followed as faithfully as good alternate history. If a time line does not have the build up of animosity leading to a particular terrorist act, then that act shouldn't happen "on schedule." SouthWriter 01:47, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

If there is a 'rise and fall of the Cold War' component to the ATL having 'non-state groups' arise, some of which decide to initiate a conflict with the dominant power/seek to damage/destroy iconic buildings might well occur (there might also be symbolic equivalents: damaging flags, actions on signficant dates etc) - but not necessarily on 11 September. Convergent history rather than parallel history. There is also seeing how a divergent previous story will lead to a different outcome to the same event in both timelines. Jackiespeel 20:59, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Examples of equivalent actions would include - Lenin's tomb on the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution; US survivalist group; followers of Carlos Marighella - and possibly to have some althistories which do converge with OTL on that particular day.

As for the 12th Century Rome-based starting points - variations on the Crusades (including the Popes deciding upon other methods should be tried; or the Fourth Crusade is not directed against Byzantium) and the Investituter Controversy. (If anyone wants to develop either of these 'just ask.') Jackiespeel 18:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Templates:Nationinfo
I have just added a "non-template" version at "Template:Nationinfo." It enables an editor to add more than one OTL equivalent using the Wikipedia page link. Editors basically are adding lines and links as needed to a simple two column chart. If one needed to add a map in the regular place, though, they would have to alter the framework of the chart (not as easy, requiring a chart within the chart). A map above the two column chart, though, would work. Remember, in order to use the chart or the template, it is much easier to copy AND paste in "source" mode. --SouthWriter 22:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia rearrangements
Will Althistory Wiki follow the WP changes - or remain with the rest of the Wikiverse in ege keeping the search box in the left column? Jackiespeel 18:08, June 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess that completely depends on our overlords at Wikia, we don't really have a say in that other than being able to pick a colour for the skin. --Karsten vK (talk) 19:04, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

New Community Project
"The following conversation was removed from the "1983: Doomsday" talk page and placed here since it has little to do with the TL, and relates to the entire Wiki".


 * How bout for a new community project, We have a POD in ancient times? Like say, Alexander the Great dies. Therefore the Persian Empire lasts several more centuries and wipes out Islam when it comes in the 7th century. I'm just making this up as I go... Eastward Expansion 14:11, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * We can take that as a "no," I guess. Go ahead and start another project EE, but those of us that have been building this time line will be putting most of our time on 1983DD. SouthWriter 14:16, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's okay if you all still want Doomsday. I just kinda think we multiple community projects.Eastward Expansion 14:18, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Another community project? I'm sorry East, but most users would likely focus on Doomsday. Yankovic270 14:25, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I like the idea of many community projects. VENEZUELA 14:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm ready to work with this timeline for a long time. And won't just trying to figure out a community project which we all like just cause us to lose interest in 1983DD and hurry over to the new one? Fegaxeyl 14:36, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Alexander the Great thing would be interesting, but I just don't see how it would work out with the POD so far back....too much unwritten history. Plus, we need some sort of event that could create a lot of small but stable states, like in DD. Otherwise, like other time lines, everything would be taken up by 3-4 superstates. It's just not that fun when you have that. Maybe we could have a meteor hitting the earth, or a solar flare/EMP that fries all the electronics worldwide (ever read the book One Second After?). Aliens, maybe, but that would get reaaaalll weird, real fast. BoredMatt 14:42, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * We have a lot of meteor time lines, but they are not open time lines to this one. As for me, I can multitask on several TL's, but I'm sticking with 1983: Doomsday. I'm figuring that things will return to normal when Mitro gets back. As for HAD, you have a point. This is the best timelne on the Wiki and just because some of us have gotten distracted does not mean it's dead. Looking through the archives, I found there was a time when we were down to around three (or four if you count Owen) active members. This TL is basically going through a recession, but everyone eventually pulls out of a recession, eh? Arstarpool 16:08, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Talking about Doomsday, could we maybe get a updated map?--Sunkist- 16:46, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you want a POD that would make major changes but isn't too far back, how about Columbus sailing for Venice or Genoa, who he historically approached before Spain but they turned him down? Or the Margrave of Brandenburg dies or something, causing Brandenburg's personal union with Prussia to end, this would result in no major rival to the emperor's power causing the HRE to last longer and not having a unifying force for Germany. This would likely mean the Russians steamroll over much of Europe, but possibly influence Russian society, bringing about modernization of the political system and no Bolshevik revolution. Who knows. Theres lots of different scenarios.Oerwinde 17:41, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * When 1983: DD started not everyone was behind so why can't a new one start? The people who want to create new timeline can chose their own POD and organize it their way. And the people who want to stick to 1983 can stick to it. And the people who want to multitask can multitask. Truth be told, to other people outside of 1983 (like me), this time line looks uneditable. There is so much history and so much information to process it is a daunting task trying to even create a new country. There is a new generation of people who want a new community project, one they can actually edit and help with. ProfessorMcG 17:52, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. Is anyone watching Wimbledon? This is crazy. ProfessorMcG 17:55, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah! Thanks McG! So who's with us? Who thinks their needs to be a new community project? I kinda like the of Columbus sailing for Genoa. Or maybe Napoleon conquers half the world then dies without an heir, causing the empire to fragment. But anyway, sign you name here if you want to be part of the New Community project!


 * Eastward Expansion 18:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * ProfessorMcG 18:09, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Although I want to help with 1983, but you guys can't be as difficult (not saying you are terribly difficult right now) when you want help to revive this.
 * BoredMatt 18:11, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fedelede 01:37, June 24, 2010 (UTC) who says there can't be two community projects?

I think the Kaiserreich TL I'm working on has great potential as a comunity project, theres so much to be done. The fragmented Europe/India/British empire and US provide a massive area for expansion. Just a thought though. BTW i'l be one of the people multitasking.Vegas adict 18:28, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * So myself, Oer, Yank, South, Pool and Feg wanna continue. That's cool.HAD 18:22, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Zack still contributes a lot. BrianD shows his face from time to time, and McG, Lordganon and Sunkist just got into 1983:DD as well. We lost 5 members, we gained three back... Arstarpool 18:26, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for not ignoring me Arstar ProfessorMcG 18:28, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Add Vegas to our list. So as of June 24, 2010, we have 12 members. It's still the biggest TL on the wiki!Arstarpool 18:31, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, even though not many people signed up, I think we should start Matt and McG!

Anyone like my Napoleon idea? (as mentioned above)

Or do you have your own ideas?Eastward Expansion 19:24, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * East, it's not happening...Just face it, 1983:DD had a bump in the road, but it is nearly back to normal thanks to the point I raised, and so many other who agree with me.Arstarpool 19:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, guys, I've put up a new heading for this discussion. I think there is room for "multitasking" (I do a little of that myself, though I am a bit ADD), but there is plenty of room in the althistory wiki for other projects. I am working with Nuclear Vaccume (NukeVac) on Two Americas, for instance, and he has opened it up for others to help as well. That is a time line that assumes a ceasefire in 1866 (after POD's that enlonged the war) between the USA and CSA. Also, I welcome help on my new time line "No Supernatural Intervention" -- same world history but with a "non-interference" policy on the part of God and all other supernatural forces. If you go over to "NSI" contact me via its discussion page or my talk page first.


 * It looks like the new fellows are wanting something new and easier to edit. Well, they can make new rules when they start the project, but I think our concensus idea works quite well. Keep up the good work "old timers." SouthWriter 19:34, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not an old timer, I just came here in March! Anyways, We DO need something like this, with proposal rules, open talk pages, etc. Arstarpool 19:39, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why don't we use a already existing article? I nominate my Time line call Central World, it's new and small perfect for turning it in a community project. VENEZUELA 20:53, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't want to butt in or anything, but what does a new community project have to do with the DD:1983 talk page? This discussion would be better left for the Nexus or the Althistory talk page, not this page.--Vladivostok 20:57, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'll move it in the next few hours. Arstarpool 21:04, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Vlad. And I didn't know you could do that, Arstar. I at least put it under a different heading here. SouthWriter 21:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean, South? Arstarpool 21:12, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

My comment "I'll move in the next few hours" sounded waaay to admin-like. Arstarpool 21:17, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh, I think you answered your own question, Arstar. Yeah, moving a whole discussion sounds like something an administrator would do. Welcome to the team! :-)


 * What team, anonymous user? Arstarpool 02:32, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was agreeing with you, Arstar, about it being an "admin-like" thing to do. I was making a joke - note the smiley face - at your "promotion" to administration. SouthWriter 05:19, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oooh, Arstar, are you getting at something? ProfessorMcG 02:36, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

We still need to figure out who wants to do the new community project. Write your name below, whether you want to continue with 1983: DD too, it doesn't matter.
 * 1) ProfessorMcG 13:45, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe I am not understanding this discussion, but is not everyone already trying to actively create a community project every time they post one of their TLs? No one every tapped 1983: Doomsday as the main community project of the wiki, it just sort of happened. Someone wrote a TL, Xi adopted it, let other people edit it, these people created new articles attracting other editors, eventually they formed rules and established a community. Everything just sort of snowballed from one person's act of creation. If you guys want to do the same thing, get creative and write a TL and see what happens. If you guys are going to start a community before you have the TL, I think you are going to find it really difficult to get this thing off the ground. -Mitro

Uh, I think I've created a new community project. The fish are biting and the pages are multiplying. Check it out here.Arstarpool 23:02, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I created a new community project!: Check it here: Central World.

New TSTPF Members

 * With Mitro, Xi-Reney and Mr. Xeight all gone, this site has gone to crap in terms of organization. I saw we should elect Interim members to the TSTPF in their absences. Anyone with me? Arstarpool 04:14, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, I'm still here, I've recently decided to come out of hibernation. Of course don't expect me long, I've decided to become a chop (or "wanker" if you're British) to show my distate for the current state of the site and will probably be banned a few weeks down the line for being so rude to everyone. But that's okay, at least I'll show to a few people how far gone this site is. Mr.Xeight 05:40, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, while my opinion still counts, I'd like to nominate Yankovic. I know our relationship has become strained in the past, but while I was gone he really blossomed into an integral part of the site and really knows his QSS, QAA, and how to realistically write an article. Make Ms. Christina Nicole proud, Yank :) Mr.Xeight 05:59, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh and Mr. South Writer deserves one as well, even though we never actually directly spoke to each other, I did notice his professionalism and good judgement. Mr.Xeight 06:03, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Mr. X8. I try not to let ideology and stuff like that get in my way. I can even work with Yank! :-) SouthWriter 13:24, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I was about to suggest him, until you edited the page and I lost all my work, Xeight. Arstarpool 06:05, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but that comment came off as a little rude, but hey that's happened to me so many times before; when you get that warning that your edit can't be processed, just copy what you wrote. And sorry for that, too, I know I would always get frustrated when it happened to me. Mr.Xeight 06:07, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Mmkay. So Yank vs. South, hmm.... Arstarpool 06:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC) Who should be elected to the TSTPF SouthWriter Yankovic270 Arstarpool

You do know you can have more than one member right? I've forfeited mine just this moment and Mr. Karnell has no intention of returning because he's essentially moved on and I've described to him a horror-story. Besides, if you don't want both to possess the same rank, you can give varying promotions based on who joined first, or who wants it more, etc. Mr.Xeight 06:17, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

If South gets elected then that will get in the way of our friendship!! No! South!!!! ProfessorMcG 13:42, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how that will work, McG. Again, this poll means nothing without approval from the admin(s). Arstarpool 14:02, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is true, Arstar. In fact, they set up a nomination process on this very page. The most recent election put four officers up, with all first being nominated and then seconded. You are not allowed to nominate yourself - or to second the nomination of yourself. So, it only takes two votes (on record with signatures) to be nominated. Then the administrators decide whether to accept the nominees into the Wiki administration. SouthWriter 15:24, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * If we use the poll we don't know who nominated who and who seconded who, someone can vote for themselves again. ProfessorMcG 18:51, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here I am. I have been neglecting my administrative duties, definitely - and it's true that most all of the admins are currently inactive. I favor immediate promotion of all three of the nominees, in order to keep the site running. As it is we're looking at a site with no leaders at all, and that's never a good thing. Is anyone else out there interested in a leadership role? Because there is a desperate need for an more hands in the TSPTF. Benkarnell 19:31, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't mind being a TSPTF member, I have lots of experience with this sort of stuff on one of my other sitesVegas adict 19:40, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK. I've just e-mailed Louisianan and Mitro to get their opinions (I hesitate to unilaterally promote crowds of people). But hopefully there can be quick agreement. Benkarnell 19:43, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * So right now our options are:
 * Vegas
 * South
 * Ars
 * Yank
 * I just like to keep the peace on my Map games and 1983: Doomsday, so I don't think I'm superly qualified, but it would be nice if I could score a position, but I'm not about to go kiss up to the higher-ups to get a position. Arstarpool 20:04, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm concerned, it's not kissing up. The site desperately needs people to step up, and they ought to be (1) willing to do it, (2) active on the wiki, and (3) not a complete jackass. Interestingly, when I became an admin I only met criterion #3 (I was promoted without being asked and was on an extended wikibreak at the time). Benkarnell 20:16, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm concerned, it's not kissing up. The site desperately needs people to step up, and they ought to be (1) willing to do it, (2) active on the wiki, and (3) not a complete jackass. Interestingly, when I became an admin I only met criterion #3 (I was promoted without being asked and was on an extended wikibreak at the time). Benkarnell 20:16, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly why I need to resign, I don't fit any of the criteria. Mr.Xeight 20:20, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I would be willing, I am one of the most active members at the moment, and I can't rate myself on being a jackass. I slip up at times, but for the most part I think I make honest and (relatively) plausible contributions. I have gotten into a couple fights with a user whose name I keep to myself, but for the most part I think that I have helped a few people out. Arstarpool 20:25, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

So...the consensus is that we elect all four, but only for the moment? Or do we vote and only pick 1, still, only for the moment? Haha, Mr. X I doubt your a jackass. ProfessorMcG 22:44, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think this is to elect new members, not temporary members. But I think ONE person should fill in for Mitro for the time being, which means such person will temporarily be given administrative rights. Arstarpool 23:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh no, we need more than one active admin. And right now, nobody on the admin list is active regularly, myself and MrX8 included. Benkarnell 23:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we just elect a whole new batch in? We have the "original four": Louis, Mitro, Ben, and that other guy. So maybe we should just elect the "new four" in, although I doubt me, Vegas, and Yank could make admin status. Arstarpool 23:53, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we just elect a whole new batch in? We have the "original four": Louis, Mitro, Ben, and that other guy. So maybe we should just elect the "new four" in, although I doubt me, Vegas, and Yank could make admin status. Arstarpool 23:53, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I seem to be in the lead.

Yankovic270 23:57, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yank, these aren't real elections. This is just a poll to see who is supporting who. Arstarpool 00:03, June 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * There are actually ten admins. It looks like eleven because Nik42 switched over to his Nik account quite early on. The "old guard" of the site is largely long gone: Chlewey, Max Sinister, Marc Pasquin, Nik, and Sikulu. Karsten (Villa Cruoninga) and Louisianan are still occasional contributors, but certainly not active on a regular basis. The same could be said for me. Mitro has announced his good-bye. That leaves Oerwinde as the only active user with admin rights. How many do we think it will take to keep things running? Five? Four? That should form the basis of our discussion - the needs of the site. Benkarnell 01:48, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, when can we get a new batch of TSPTF members in here? Arstarpool 02:11, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Temporary goodbye only. I'll be back in August. -Mitro

If I just may add something to the discussion, I think we should have done this a while ago. It really did get to the point in the last two months where only Oer was active and that was a bit alarming. Now for the four candidates I'd just like to say that they would all make great additions to the TSPTF. Arstarpool has done most of the mediating on Doomsday since Mitro left, Yank has been here a long time and knows the ins and outs of the wiki the best of the four chosen, SouthWriter is the cool collected one and Vegas, although the newest addition to the site, is really a good guy and has some admin experience. If I had to, I'd back them all to be in the TSPTF.--Vladivostok 09:06, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

How about you, Vlad? You've got quite a bit of experience on the site yourself. Arstarpool 16:04, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Me? Well, why not? But only if no one objects and if there is room for me in this new batch of recruits.--Vladivostok 16:12, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

I think that there is room for all candidates to be added to the TSPTF. After all, of the ten admins there is basically only one who regularly contributes (with Mitro only temporarily gone). This means that there are eight (or so) seats to fill, and the five candidates (including myself) can be accomodated with no trouble. The thing is, I don't know which of the eight contributors wants to become a regular contributor again.

Yankovic270 16:40, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, is that really such a problem? Is there a specific number of seats that can be filled?--Vladivostok 17:08, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well Arstarpool has both been extremely active, as well as basically taken over the admin duties in all but name of 83DD, so if anyone should be made an admin, its him.Oerwinde 17:42, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm flattered, Oer. Was it you who voted for me above? Arstarpool 19:20, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I voted for South like 10 times already, so no big deal...ProfessorMcG 19:23, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * So it's South, Arstar (me), and Yank. And maybe Vegas and Vlad should get Constable or Officer Emeritus rights. Arstarpool 19:27, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can I achieve the rank of Apprentice Peasant? And yea Arstar, those people including you are the best for the positions... ProfessorMcG 19:30, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey guys? I know I'm sorta new here and I just use this account to read althists instead of make my own, or contribute in any way. But I'd like to nominate someone. Can I nominate? French Victory 19:37, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been reading a lot of talk pages, and Eastward Expansion seems kinda nice. The only person he's every been angry at was Calthrina950 (the girl who cussed people out) and even that was only after she was banned. He's got as many edits as Vlad. And he's even helped in the Superpowers timeline. And when he uses stuff from another timeline, he always asks first. Unlike when VENEZUALA stole some stuff from the Central Victory timeline.French Victory 19:44, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know about East, he only participates in Map Games most of the time. But maybe we could elect him as an officer emeritus or a constable. Arstarpool 20:03, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * So here is my proposal for the "new" TSPTF, tell me what you think:
 * Brass
 * SouthWriter
 * Yankovich270
 * Arstarpool (Option 1)
 * Leutenants
 * Arstarpool (Option 2)
 * Vladviostok
 * Vegas Adict (Option 1)
 * Constables
 * Vegas Adict (Option 2)
 * Eastward Expansion (Option 1)
 * Officers Emeritus
 * Eastward Expansion (Option 2)
 * Oh thank you French Victory! That was quite nice of you. As for me only participating in map games, have you seen my TL, Quetzalcoatl's World? Or the article I'm doing for Red called Ongtsegheon? My point is that I do more than just map games.
 * Constables
 * Vegas Adict (Option 2)
 * Eastward Expansion (Option 1)
 * Officers Emeritus
 * Eastward Expansion (Option 2)
 * Oh thank you French Victory! That was quite nice of you. As for me only participating in map games, have you seen my TL, Quetzalcoatl's World? Or the article I'm doing for Red called Ongtsegheon? My point is that I do more than just map games.
 * Oh thank you French Victory! That was quite nice of you. As for me only participating in map games, have you seen my TL, Quetzalcoatl's World? Or the article I'm doing for Red called Ongtsegheon? My point is that I do more than just map games.
 * Oh thank you French Victory! That was quite nice of you. As for me only participating in map games, have you seen my TL, Quetzalcoatl's World? Or the article I'm doing for Red called Ongtsegheon? My point is that I do more than just map games.


 * And any way, what's the responsibilities of the Officers Emeritus (I'm assuming they're the lowest rank, but I'm still okay with that)? Eastward Expansion 20:11, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * And constables are the second-lowest? Eastward Expansion 20:14, June 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The officers emeritus are simply inactive admins, so we can hardly add new ones ;-). Like I said, the four of us are discussing it. Has SouthWriter expressed an interest? I don't see him in this discussion, and before we name the new folks I'd like to know if he wants to be a part of it. Benkarnell 20:19, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean when you are 'discussing' it? Don't the 'people' get a right to say who they want? ProfessorMcG 20:27, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, that is just how the new admins are elected to the position.--Vladivostok 20:31, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * This wiki is not a democracy. Though one day it might be preferable down the road to elect admins, right now we have no procedure in place to make any election fair. Right now we are stuck with our "benevolent oligarchy." Don't get me wrong, the admins are hardly dictators and generally we go with public opinion 95% of the time, but all of the admins are volunteers who have been approved by the current admins at the time of their ascension. People are usually selected as long as they have a good reputation. no attitude problems and generally wish to volunteer the time to improve the wiki as a whole. -Mitro

While i may not have the same knowlage of this particular wiki as Yank or South I do have good knowlage of adminship on other wikis. Generaly you need at least 1 active admin per 1000 pages. At the moment i count three active admins two of which are burocrats (Ben, Louisiannan and Oerwinde) with Xi'Reney posibly coming back. Therefore even with Mitro returning we will have 4 active admins, To remedy this we would probalbley need all five of the proposed admins. However this is just my opinion and it's up to the wiki to decide.Vegas adict 20:32, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

I say we stop babbling and get some new admins in here within the next 48 hours. Arstarpool 20:44, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Any way I can get fit in here somewhere? ;-) GOPZACK 20:50, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Arstar and Vegas, both of you have great points. And considering we should have about 10 admins that's good because, 4 active admins +5 proposed ones +GOPZACK = 10. That equals out nicely. And yes, within the next 48 hours we should have new admins.Eastward Expansion 21:08, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

I deleted the whole results of the poll by accident :(Arstarpool 21:37, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Oh I can't leave this site; I've grown too attached to it in the years. May I please have my old job back? Mr.Xeight 05:22, June 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, Karsten, Louisianan, and Mitro have expressed concern with some of the nominees, and I'd prefer to discuss that off-site unless nobody has a problem with these concerns being aired in public. I kind of hate the opaque nature of this process, and I'll gladly share the thought process if consensus is that I ought to. So far I've mostly tried to avoid embarassing anybody.
 * I want everything to be clear, though, before going ahead with the expansion. So now besides Arstar and Yankovic and Vegas: Gopzack, Vladivostok, EastwardExpansion, and MrX8 are now also interested? EE, since you're so new to the site, I think I'm going to say "wait" right off. Three months is, I suppose, rather substantial in Internet Time, but I would be more comfortable if you spent some more time in the community, exhibiting leadership on an informal basis before getting the official bump.
 * SouthWriter has yet to weigh in, so I can only assume that administratorship is not something he's terribly interested in.
 * Anyone who wants to email me: ben@henua.tk is where you can reach me. Or else just say "I don't mind discussing myself on-wiki" and we can talk it all over here or at your userpage.
 * Benkarnell 17:07, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't mind discussing myself on-wiki. Just message me on my talk page. Arstarpool 17:12, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Likewise, I don't mind discusing myself on-wiki. I think this whole thing should be as open as posible even if it involves critisisms of users.Vegas adict 17:33, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like I'm a constable now! Arstarpool 17:59, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like I'm a member of the Brass now. I have two questions:


 * 1) What specific position should I take?


 * 1) Where can I get an image of the badge to stick on my userpage?

Yankovic270 18:09, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yank, actually acording the the User:Rights list, your a constable. Same with me. Arstarpool 18:12, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. I thought we were using French Victory's idea.

Yankovic270 18:15, June 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just out of intrest is the TSPF badge just for Burocrats or can Admins like me and Vlad put it on our user pages?Vegas adict 19:47, June 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course anyone in any of the tsptf groups can use it. But by convention, it seems, only bureaucrats get a ludicrous title, and even then it must be given by somebody else. Benkarnell 19:52, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Editing Error
I was editing a page a few minutes ago and when I clicked preview it said that there was a problem and that I needed to reload the page to solve it. When I did so everything I wrote was gone. Although I attempted to go Back through my browser, and even reopened the page in my history, none of these brought back any of what I had written. Is there a way to recover this lost data? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as I had over an hours work written down. Red VS Blue 03:49, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

New Community Project: Central World
Hi Everyone, I want to turn the Timeline Central World into a community project! Everyone who have ideas or want to write an article feel free to do it remember to add the proposal template: CWProp. Please write your opinions, ideas, and everything here! and remember feel free to imagine and create... VENEZUELA 02:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but it's not community project material. It just won't happen. Most of the information is copied from real life, and the Nazis winning does not really create any new or original ideas. Arstarpool 23:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

What Nazis? What most information it just have like 15 articles? VENEZUELA 23:30, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

I meant Germany and the Central Powers. Sorry. Arstarpool 23:37, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Hey you think you're the creator of Althistory, you try to control EVERYTHING, the Central Powers winning bring a extremely different world!!!!!!!!!!! unless you're the 1000 users of Althistory?????????? VENEZUELA 23:46, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

No I don't, Vene, and I am only stating an opinion, so it's not like I'm going into Central World and deleting it, that would be controlling everything. Arstarpool 00:05, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

You said I won't just happen but more than 8 users said that it can happen and 2 excluding me have write articles. VENEZUELA 00:26, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

IRC
So, we have two unofficial IRC channels, mine and Vegas', I personally like Vegas' one better. Anyway, this is how you can join.

1) Go to http://webchat.freenode.net/

2) Go to the channel "#wikia_AH" (remove quotation marks).

3) Party.

Smallpox 01:23, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Whoa.... ok, I joined, but I can't type anything. All it is is just a list of my actions (login, joining channel, etc.). More brownie points for you, smallpox, if you figure out what I've done wrong this time. BoredMatt 12:50, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

I had the same problem.

Eastward Expansion 13:49, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Can you show me a screenshot?--Smallpox 13:53, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Not really, but I see EE and some guy called Simcoe (that you?) in a box to the right of the screen, so I guess that means you are logged in. When I click on your names, it just takes me to a blank page. BoredMatt 14:05, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

And now the Simcoe guy justt typed a hello, but I cant respond or anything.

Yeah, Simcoe is me. Don't click our names, haha. You can take a screenshot with the print screen key, and then pasting it into paint.--Smallpox 14:08, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Found the text bar! EE, look at the very bottom oof the screen. BoredMatt 14:09, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Excuse Me
Hi, I'm trying to make an account and it asked for my birthday, will that be seen by other people?66.205.143.108 05:04, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

No. In fact, when you first start off, nothing will be shown on your user page. Arstarpool 05:26, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank You! 66.205.143.108 22:38, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Pics from Wikipedia
Is it possible to show Pictures from Wikipedia without uploading them to this wiki? If so, please tell me how GenghisKhan&#39;t 01:31, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far has I know Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons do not recomend direct links due to posible server overload. --JorgeGG 02:50, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Achievements
Check out this new feature wikia is offering: http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Achievements

Is this something our wiki should have? Mitro 21:10, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

I only briefly read it but it looks pretty interesting. Arstarpool 03:24, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

It looks good to meVegas adict 08:49, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that. Its got my vote. Red VS Blue 13:03, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

^Seconded. BoredMatt 13:37, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

No! Please don't do achievements! Pointless edits! I suppose though...

they could help the community...

maybe we could...

I vote for it!

Eastward Expansion 22:39, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

If no one has any objections with Achivements, I can contact wikia later tonight (British time) to get them activated. I'l take responsibly for them once thier set up as wellVegas adict 17:31, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * We need to customize them so they fit with our wiki. Essentially make them more alternate history like. Please share any ideas. Mitro 17:21, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm working on changing the basic badges to fit the wiki but i'm also creating badges for comunity projects like 1983DD, CYOAH, Map Games, Wasteland Europe and Advancement. If anyone has other ideas for badges please put them down hereVegas adict 17:29, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * We could have the "Gustav Adolf" award for bringing obsolete articles up to date (or deleting them); the "Time Traveler" award for editing x number of timelines; etc? BoredMatt 17:31, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * It should be posible to do that with obosolete articals but Timelines are causing me some problem as it doesn't recognise subcategories as part of their parent category and for example very few of the 1983DD articals link back to the main category. If they did then it would be easier.Vegas adict 18:46, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * What exactly are the point of these achievements anyhow? GOPZACK 22:23, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there any possible way to opt out of these badges...and to at least discourage users from making pointless edits on articles just to rack up points on this thing?BrianD 22:32, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh I hope there is. I'm working on reverting some of Yanks useless ones right now. GOPZACK 22:32, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just finished removing the 1983:Doomsday category from a bunch that he added it to that were already part of a subcategory.Oerwinde 03:30, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can disable them for yourself under 'my preferences' > 'misc'. --Karsten vK (talk) 06:54, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now I understand why there are so many articles sporting the 1983: Doomsday category. Vegas is there anyway to just add all of the subcategories to the badges as well? Mitro 20:35, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not as far as i can work out.Vegas adict 10:06, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Disabling Achivements Permanantly
Before i ask wiki staff to disable Achivements again i want to make sure the majority of the comunity are in favor of disabling them. So please sign below to show your aproval or disaproval. I will be acting on the results of this on Monday to allow all contributiors to make thier views clear and to settle into the achivements system.Vegas adict 10:06, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

I think we need more time with them before we decide. They were enabled what? Yesterday? Something like this is obviously going to have some hiccups at first, and I've found its actually pushed me to do some work on my timelines.Oerwinde 10:17, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enougth, i'v set the deadline back to next monday which will be a week from when they were enabled.Vegas adict 10:21, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats not a bad idea. We can keep the badges until then and take a poll on Monday to see where the rest of the community stands. Mitro 15:19, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I kind of like the pseudo "new start" they give us, but then again, I haven't contributed so much so it doesn't affect me as much.--Smallpox 16:43, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * While it is true that it shows a basic summary of edits you have done since it came into effect, I think that it is leaving out the users that have been here for years and contributed since devalues every edit (like 99% of all edits in AltHistory Wikia's history) made before. I think we should have an "Old Timers" badge or something, equivalent to either the number of years or number of edits before the badges were introduced. I don't mean this as away for the older people to dominate newer ones ranking wise, but to show that these people who have been here since last year or five years ago that their efforts were not worthy of being considered for a badge, while making everything since yesterday worth more than everything you may have done since you started. even if its like 10 points for 100 edits, 20 for 1000 or 50 for 10000, it won't change things to much, would it? Tbguy1992 03:55, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

An Idea
I am in the process of pitching an idea to the Main Wikia staff. It'll use our activity feed to post messages, similar to facebook.

For example, you would be looking at your watchlist and Venezuela could send a short message to Fedelede and it would appear in his and everyone else's activity feed. However, you can choose to send it privately if you wish. Who wants to help me with this crazy idea? Arstarpool 00:09, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Just to know why I'm on the example? VENEZUELA 00:11, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know I just thought of somebody random. So do you like it or not?Arstarpool 00:13, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

But I like sticking my nose in other people's business. ;_; --Smallpox 03:43, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hahaha Smallpox....Yea that sounds like a good idea! ProfessorMcG 04:01, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Unused Images
There are currently over 1000 unused images on this wiki. You can see them all here. I am taking it upon myself to clean these images and any help that you can give me would be appreciated. Here is what I am planning to do:


 * 1) It seems a shame to delete all the flag images that people have created. So I am going to create articles to collect these alternate flags. If you have been on recently you might have seen the start of some of these articles, like Flags of California. If you want to join me in creating new articles to fill with some of these better unused images, go ahead.
 * 2) As for the rest of the non-flag images I am going to start deleting them soon. If you want to save them you need to do it yourself. Place them on an article you control or save them onto your own computer, I am not going to save them for you.

Any other ideas about what to do with these unused images would be greatly appreciated. Mitro 17:15, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Some of these are simply not categorized, and should be loaded into the associated timelines, like New Albion for many of those on the first page. I would suggest that before we start actively deleting pictures, we should rather slate them for deletion in January or December, giving time for folks to claim/associate them. Louisiannan 03:56, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really, all of the files listed in the Unused Files page are not on any page. They are pretty much just existing in limbo. Mitro 04:06, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Having been around here longer, I can tell you that there are a number that are from the Roman Timeline (which is a string of numbers - and I can't remember it without going looking, which I don't care to do) and others from New Albion - and that's just a cursory glance. I suppose I can try to find time in life right now and take care of these. Louisiannan 01:09, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually I started doing that today. I have been posting some of the unused images on articles that they belong too, such as the New Albion images. I figured it was fairer than simply deleting them outright. Others that I cannot find attached to any TL I am marking for deletion and giving the rest of the editors the chance to claim it if they want. Some however should be deleted, like those images that were once part of the Red Napoleon TL which was deleted because it was a derivative work of Command and Conquer: Red Alert.

Mitro 01:12, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm also going to use some of the pictures, mainly flags. --JorgeGG 15:30, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Dates of activity
I have noticed in several cases that the dates of changes made are somewhat in the past rather than the actual dates of activity. Is there a glitch of some sort? Jackiespeel 21:15, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

New user
Hello, I am a new user to this website, and am not entirely familiar with the wikia format, nor the exact rules of this website. I have created a page (Changed Destiny), and am having trouble formatting it to not look like complete crap. If you could help, that would be greatly appreciated. :) Randomideaguy 15:23, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

It could also use some contributions from other authors, as it will be very focused on the Western Hemisphere. Apart from what's mentioned already, I have no plans for the rest of the world, and it can be filled in by virtually anyone. Randomideaguy 21:07, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey Random, welcome to the wiki. Check out Alternative History:Conventions in use in this wiki for a brief overview of the rules. Also if you have any specific questions about wiki code, feel free to leave a message on my talk page. You might also want to check out Alternative History:Experts for contributors who may have the expertise you are looking for when expanding your TL. Finally, one last peice of advice, new messages on talk pages should go on the bottom of the page. Good luck and happy editing. Mitro 22:52, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help. I have a new question now. So, somewhat disconcertingly, the format for the entire wiki has changed only a few days after I've joined. I find this format both ascthetically displeasing and discouraging. Is there any way I can change it back to the old format for my own use. Some sort of "classical" way of seeing things? Randomideaguy 21:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * At the top right corner of the page you should see the MORE button. Click the arrow and you will get a drop down menu. Click on Preferences. There you will be able to change the preferences of the wiki to better suit you. Mitro 21:03, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * At the top right corner of the page you should see the MORE button. Click the arrow and you will get a drop down menu. Click on Preferences. There you will be able to change the preferences of the wiki to better suit you. Mitro 21:03, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

New Look
Can links to the the bloglist, special pages, leaderboard etc be restored 'somewhere on the new layout'? Jackiespeel 14:10, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * You might want to check this out: Forum:Ugly look? Mitro 15:05, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

The point is not how it looks - but having links to the above would be useful, for those of us who 'pass the time' by improving pages ;) Jackiespeel 16:30, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Quite frankly - the new set up is totally unusable/unfriendly.

I cannot call up my list of contributions, go back to the main page, or otherwise do anything: and I did try with the preferences.

Can #some# dropdown link be included along the top with the links that used to be along to the left? Jackiespeel 14:04, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

To go back to the main page click on the text saying alternate history in blue, to call up your list of contribs is harder you have to go to your user page and click on the contributions tab at that top. Could you give me some examples of what you want in a drop down menu and i'l do itVegas adict 15:51, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

The group of links available in the old format (Main page-Leaderboard and Recent changes-Special pages. Jackiespeel 16:07, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Done!, Clear your cache and on the top bar thiers a tab called useful stuff, scroll ove rit and four boxes should apear below it which link to the links you specifiiedVegas adict 18:01, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Lockout and daily contributions
I was unable to contribute yesterday because I 'flitted past' when the lockout was in operation - will this affect the count (or is it possible to 'skip over' for anybody concerned)? Jackiespeel 23:55, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

The new layout
Is still slightly unhelpful.

Neither version has a link to the blogposts.

The side-bar layout does not have a link to the Achievements Leaderboard - and when I do get there, and click on 'Go to your user profile to (see your badges and next achievements' the list does not come up.

Can these links be created please? Jackiespeel 16:03, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one who can't use the Monaco skin anymore? Arstar 19:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, wikia has gotten rid of the Monaco skin across the board. You can only now choose between Monobook or the new layout. Mitro 19:18, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

To clarify my position - while I prefer the sidebar arrangement, my principal desire (wiki-wise that is) is that the various links on the Monaco layout are retained (ie the items mentioned above, and those now added on a dropdown menu from the new layout). Otherwise - so long as the colour arrangement is not too jarring and the links are accessible 'no particular comment.' Jackiespeel 22:11, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

What use is the Achievements Board
If you can't access it in either layout format?

And the 'Create New Page' link has gone from the sidebar version as well. Jackiespeel 22:05, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Award Ceremony
I would like to propose the idea for an award ceremony to mark the New Year. It'll be simple enough to organize, just something kind of like the Oscar's, but for Althists. It would be an interesting way to stimulate competition, especially for next year. It wouldn't even be hard to distinguish this from the featured alternate history title, especially since its a real competition.

So, any thoughts? Red VS Blue 02:53, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know I was thinking of the exact same thing today! We could have awards celebrating certain editors and creations of 2010. We can have it on January 26th, the day the wiki was created. People and things will be nominated and voted on, and they will get an award template to showcase on there user pages (or talk pages if we are talking about a TL/Article). Mitro 03:44, November 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Really? Well we have to have one then! =D

Examples of some awards are "Best satirical alternate history" or "Best writer in a community timeline". I figure a good mixture of awards to Users and awards to Timelines would be a balanced way to do it. I can make a nice Award template some time before Christmass, though I'm not sure how to make one that can be customized for the award. I suppose a separate template for each one would work too XD Red VS Blue 04:12, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Im in for it :)

Can we make nominations already? Because there's two editors I have in mind. Arstar 04:16, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well we need to decide what categories to have first and set up the page to collect nominations and votes. Here are some ideas for categories:
 * Best Editor (we can do seperate ones for guys and gals)
 * Best writer in a community timeline
 * Best TSPTF member
 * Best TL created in 2010
 * Best satirical TL (we might also want to consider other types of TLs)
 * Best article created in 2010
 * Best Map in 2010
 * Best OTL/non-AH article in 2010
 * Best revert
 * Best copyedit
 * Best non-English wiki (to celebrate the users we don't see often from our satelite wikis)
 * Best photoshoped picture
 * Best template in 2010
 * Best ban (sort of like a razzie, I think it going to be a competition between Owen and Catherine)

Mitro 04:22, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

How about best 1983: Doomsday nation profile? Arstar 04:44, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Not too many awards - or people will be 'developing pieces towards them' rather than being creative. Jackiespeel 15:33, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Here is a question, what do we want to name our awards? Mitro 15:46, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well AH.com call there awards the Turtledove awards prehaps we could name ours along similar lines. With regards to posible awards i would sugest having one for best artical and best artical in 2010 with the same for timelinesVegas adict 18:39, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

For the name I recommend either the Livys or the Ghazalis. Livy wrote the first alternate history and Ghazali first proposed the possibility that alternate histories could exist. Either way the name definitely one-ups AH.com's in terms of significance to the subject.

We can't create a page for nominations until the name is decided upon, so should we have a vote for it? Red VS Blue 00:28, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

I pretty much like the sound of the Livy Award. Fedelede 00:59, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Seconded, Fede. The Ghazalis doesn't really sound right. However, I'd prefer The Stirlings or The Flints (though it is kinda copying AH.com). The Stirling Awards just sounds really good for this sort of thing. BoredMatt 01:09, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Could call them the "Niks" after the founder of this wiki too. (Added this over an hour ago but someone accidentally removed it! GRR)

Lordganon 01:38, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I created a poll so we can come to a decision. I also added the Pipers option, after H. Beam Piper, the author of the Paratime series. Mitro 01:49, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

What should we name our annual awards? Livys Ghazalis Stirlings Flints Niks Pipers

Currently no one is winning, so this is a good time to ask, when shall the polls be closing? It has to be a set-in-stone date or things could get a little unfair. Red VS Blue 22:39, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let us give it until Tuesday at Noon central time. If there is a tie we will have a run off vote. Mitro 15:49, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Alright. And Central Time is the one that shows up here =>? Red VS Blue 17:48, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't believe so. Anyway it looks like Stirlings are going to win. Mitro 18:12, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Awww, I was liking the sound of the Livys so much haha What a shame. Red VS Blue 22:43, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

So will this be in addition to the non-functional awards and points system? Can there be Barnstars etc for people who 'persistently sort out glitches, correct typos, develop stubs and otherwise contribute to the general good of the wiki without necessarily qualifiying for the above'? Jackiespeel 18:01, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes this will be something seperate from the badges. As for Barnstars, those don't need admin backing. The way Wikipedia does it, if I am not mistaken, has editors creating them on their own and rewarding people they see fit. Mitro 18:12, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Will the 'problems with the points system' be resolved soon? There should be some recognition for those falling into the category/ies I just mentioned. Jackiespeel 18:30, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Though this is getting off topic, Jackie the badges don't work that way. Most only count edits made to certain categories. So if I make 100 edits in the 1983: Doomsday category, I might get a badge. But the wiki cannot tell when something is a correction and award badges for that. Sorry man but if you are just doing those edits for badges than you are not going to be happy. Mitro 21:01, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

There are two points - (1) the leaderboard has disappeared (both versions), and I cannot see what score I have etc and (2) 'one or several' awards/barnstars/ whatever given in the 'nominations and awards' thread under discussion. Some people do much work 'tidying things up' which should be recognised as much as the 'best edit' etc. Jackiespeel 22:46, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * (1) I see that the leaderboard is gone, but that is wikia issue so you need to contact the wikia admins, either way THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS TOPIC. (2) If you actually read the proposed list you would have noticed the "Best copyedit". That category will cover exactly what you are talking about, so nominate yourself for it when the voting page is finally created.
 * Also there is no "best edit" award, but there is a "best editor" award. Mitro 22:57, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Well 2011 Stirling Awards it is. I will create a draft to the nominations/voting page soon and let people comment. I think we will open it up for nominations in December and open it to voting in January, with voting and award presentation on January 26. Mitro 20:19, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm okay with the awards. In fact, it sounds like it could be really cool.

rcox1995

Rcox1995 01:16, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

There are uses for both badges and awards and I was 'clarifying a potential ambiguity.' The point I was trying to make is that there should be some equivalents to WP's barnstars for 'patient work in the background' (possibly on an intermittent basis). Jackiespeel 16:46, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then create the barnstars yourself Jack, like I said before you do not need the admin's permission or community consensus to do it. Mitro 18:07, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Not technically minded enough - and can be awards etc. Jackiespeel 18:12, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Getting back on topic, I finally created the prototype award page. PLEASE comment on it and once consensus approves I will make the wiki-wide announcement. Also we need an actual award to give out. Please send all designs to me. Mitro 03:32, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Nominations for the 1st Annual Stirling Awards of Alternate History have begun! Mitro 23:18, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

"Useful stuff"
... on the "green header" layout does not seem to be working at present (which, on a previous occasion, was why I started off that page). Jackiespeel 17:50, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Page Number 12,000
Okay, who was the lucky editor? I was going to create a few pages on the chance that I might be the one. But I see that I take a long weekend off and it gets posted while I'm gone. That was close, too, since I got back to my "office" only about 3 hours ago!

Congradulations, Number 12,000! Someone sort those articles chronologically and let us know which page it was.

SouthWriter 02:39, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

It looks like it was Austria and others by User:Collie Kaltenbrunner.

Lordganon 12:38, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Search Engine
What happened to the search engine? I cannot search for phrases in content. No matter what I put in the box, there is nothing returned from content. The Search page only searches titles. It is useless for content searches, and thus making this page almost impossible to maintain. Until this is fixed, it will be almost impossible to add to this page unless you happen to think about it while reading, writing or editing an article. SouthWriter 03:02, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

[The "this page" to which I was referring was the 'This Day in Alternate History' page. I commented here to get more attention.] SouthWriter 15:53, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You might try the advanced search option, that may help. Other than that this seems like a problem only the Wikia staff can handle, you might try reaching out to them. Mitro 14:09, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried the "advanced" option. No good. I was afraid I would have to go to the wikia staff. Why in the world would the designers take away the "global search" engine? It must be a temporary glitch. I will try again today. SouthWriter 15:53, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'm looking for moderators for Civilization (Map Game), so if you happen to stumble by this sentence could you check out the page and see if you want to become a player or moderator.

Chicagoan 00:50, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's back now. PitaKang 03:28, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I never had any problems with it...

Wiki Creator?
Just wondering who created this Wiki in the first place? I mean it seems like all of the founding farthers of this site has dissaperedAlexanders 01:03, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

Nik42/Nik was the creator of the wiki. Lordganon 08:41, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

So the creator is not even here any more....Alexanders 15:03, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

New Template
I like the new imagery on the left hand of the screen. Personally I think the right side of the screen could be improved with imagery from before 1900. Just a thought.--Antiimperialist 21:01, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

sounds like a good idea Alexanders 19:03, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

He appears to be talking about the featured article, which is why I didn't answer in the first place. Makes no sense. Lordganon 20:55, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think he's talking about the background image. One issue there is I originally included more in the background image, but there is a file size limit and had to cut 2 or 3 images out of it already to fit the limit. Oerwinde 22:15, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Clarifications
Ok, I think some things need discussing. There has been a lot of hostility lately towards implausible timelines. This needs to stop. Just because its implausible, doesn't mean its not acceptable. Pretty much every victorious confederacy timeline is implausible, but its still one of the biggest subsets of alternate history. I think instead we should be discussing how the developments can be explained in an acceptable way, even if it isn't plausible. Recent example: Just because Rome was supposedly founded by the descendents of refugees from Troy, doesn't mean there can't be a Roman empire. Sure its not likely for Rome to develop the way it did OTL, but it is fiction after all.

Also, I think we need to take another look at what exactly is Future History. I think there is a divide on the definition. I brought this up on Mitro's blog a couple weeks back. I don't see why extending an alternate history into the future immediately disqualifies it from the wiki. If the point of divergence is in the past, I don't see why it doesn't count as alternate history. Its not like it needs events to unfold OTL to figure out what will happen ATL since post POD everything is different anyway.Oerwinde 09:24, July 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * The reason why we decided to disqualify any timeline extending further then the present was to prevent having one where the POD is 2 days ago and then extend 2 centuries into the future making it more sci-fi then alternate history. Marcpasquin 09:59, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

That wasn't the point about that Troy thing at all, though almost no one managed to notice that - and the myth thing was just part of a several paragraph reasoning, if you'd read further than the first little bit. The "hostility" is someone not being able to take criticism, nothing more, and it snowballing from there. People, simple enough, don't like being told that their work is not plausible. Yet, they should be told when it is.

I'm well aware that elements of any timeline taken in context, or even as a whole aren't plausible - but as long as there is a way that's not entirely ridiculous leading to it, it's all right. But, any PoD has its butterflies, and people need to remember that, while rooting things in facts. It's something a lot of people fail to do, as you all can no doubt attest. Doesn't mean that they can't be well-written if the author ignores that, or even good, but that it's entirely unrealistic and they should not try passing it off as such. Heck, we've a few good ones like that here, foremost being your Sundered Veil and An Independent in 2000, which have been barred from being featured for that reason - being ASB, or something similar - quite unjustly, in my opinion, for they are well-written and serve as good examples.

Confederate timelines are plausible, if they have a real PoD, and not just "Confederacy wins" or they take Washington in 1864, or something like that that is impossible without changes long beforehand. There are several points early on where they had a chance at taking Washington or Philly, with only a small change in Union or Confederate movements allowing the event to occur, though it needs to be emphasized that even there, Confederate arms cannot carry the day. Outside involvement, or some sort of political collapse in the Union, sure - but not the Confederates on their own. And that's basically the problem with the majority of such timelines - they end up as impossible as Guns of the South, or as simple revenge fantasies, all pretty ignorant of the reality of what the war was about.

I agree with the reasoning Mitro gave in response to you, and what Marc said just now. Alternate History, for all they may stick it with Science Fiction in stores, is not Science Fiction, and its a touch ignorant for them to put it there without its own label. Nor is it Historical Fiction, for much the same reasons. Rather, it lies somewhere between the two points. That's not to say the lines are blurred at times, but they are there.

Take the Worldwar series, by Turtledove, for instance. It's about an alternate WWII - which is alternate history, and none can argue with that - but then the aliens are added to the picture. That's a good case of blurring the line. Myself, I consider it Alternate History, of the most ASB form, up until the last book, which is no longer, because, it is science fiction based on an AH, and as Mitro said in his response to you, they are attempting to predict future events, even though it is in Turtledove's own Alternate History world. Still, if we had it on this site, it would be marked as ASB, and none would question it until that point.

To go another way, take your Sundered Veil series. It's rooted in fact, and reality, and even with a pretty innocent PoD, until the "Veil" is sundered, in an experiment years later. The PoD, that John of Nottingham is not caught before he kills, has the King and a few other important figures die through assassins, with the appearance of magic, presents a very interesting PoD on its own, and one that I wish someone would look into without going into magic like this - it's a good PoD, lol - and at that point, it's Alternate History and again, none can really argue with that, and is such until the secondary PoD, the sundering of the "veil," 90 years later. (Note that I look forward to seeing the developments in that 90 years, lol.) At this point, it ceases to be Alternate History. Yet, at the same time, it is not ASB, but Historical Fantasy, or "HF."

The two differ in that ASB, given what it stands for, can be said to be "acts of God," or Sci-fi. HF is a rare thing - I can only think of a few books/series with it. Heck, the term I use, to the best of my knowledge, isn't standard, nor that there is one. But, for all purposes, what it is is "Fantasy nested in the past, but with roots in historical fact and an actual PoD from otl." Don't even want to try to call what it would be if it went into the future, but at that point, it wouldn't be historical any longer, but futuristic, and thus what amounts to fantastical science fiction, for lack of a better thing to call it. This is basically why the main page of SV is only in the SV category, and the category itself is in both ASB and Timelines - nowhere to put them, really, so both it is. Perhaps I should change that, but that really should be a community thing to decide. Overall, it's a very good example of "blurred." Note, however, that HF, if you think about it, it not entirely impossible in some respects, either - for instance, the way "magic" is explained in the recent movie "The Sorcerer's Apprentice," in that it's you using all your brain, all the time, and you can.... do things with it, while incredibly unlikely, is not impossible, per se - this is definitely a train of thought that SV uses too.

To quote dictionary.com, History is "the branch of knowledge dealing with past events." Thus, it can easily be deprived from there that "Alternate History" is "the branch of knowledge dealing with alternate versions of past events." The key thing here is the use of the word "past."

If an timeline goes into future events, it is dealing with something other than the past or recent present. With the definition given for history, it is pretty obvious that if something goes into the future, it is no longer history, but a simple speculation of things to come. Again, quoting dictionary.com, the definition of science fiction is "a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc."

Right there, seventh word from the end - "speculation." Given that things going into the future are speculating about things to come, and that the definition for science fiction specifically states that it includes "speculation," it is obvious from there that future history, as "speculation," is science fiction. And thus, not Alternate History, which is why it is not allowed on this wiki, and should never be.

Lordganon 12:27, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

歴史改変ＳＦ日本語
Hello, can I propose that there could be a Japanese language version of Alternative History? Or its not okay? I could do it, unless any one objects of it... 9 もりや すわこ 17:56, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * There already are a few version of AH wiki in other languages so there shouldn't be any problems. That being said, none of them seem to have fared well.


 * Could I just ask you one favour ? when posting on this wiki, could you put the entry in English ? (never thought I'd say *that* to someone....) Marcpasquin 22:40, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, but there is not any Japanese language ones... I wanted to know if there is a Japanese language one, or if not, I could establish one. But if not, that okay, I'm fine either way.
 * And 歴史改変ＳＦ日本語 means "Alternative History Japanese Language". Sorry, Just wanted to put it like that... 9 もりや すわこ 22:49, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

If you want to start a Japanese version, power to you. Just remember that unless it is your work, you cannot copy it off this wiki. Though, I'd avoid doing that with your work, too, lol. Lordganon 02:02, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, then I'll start a Japanese one it is. :] Though, do I have to create the Japanese version 1st and request it to be linked or do they do it themselves if I request that Japanese be linked with other languages on this wiki? 9 もりや すわこ 07:35, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

I believe that if you make the wiki - note, that it would be jp.althistory.wikia.com as the link - that it would link up on its own after a day or so. But don't hold me to that. Lordganon 08:09, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I created it here. And I put the request in as well. 9 もりや すわこ 08:37, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Though, do you mind if I copy the country template? Or does it count as stealing? I can give credit. 9 もりや すわこ 08:54, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

With the more general templates like that one, go ahead. The author of those ones on here cribbed them off wikipedia anyways, lol. As for the request, I hope you added in it that you had permission, lol. Would better it in their eyes, I think. Lordganon 09:08, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. And thanks for reminding me about the permission, I completely forgot to add that in. So I added in that I had permission from this wiki to do the request. Thanks for the reminder. 9 もりや すわこ 09:13, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the Japanese language version is now linked with all the other languages! Could you add the it to the Main Page languages section if it's okay please? I can't do it because the page seems to be protected. 9 もりや すわこ 02:59, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, definitely protected. I'll add the link. Lordganon 03:16, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Noob Question
Can I ask how to make a timeline? I want to get working on an alternate history with various pages, battles etc. I understand making a page but how do I make them part of a timeline which is in brackets after the title.

~Len

First make the main article for your timeline. Then you make any other articles for that timeline with the main article's name in brackets behind the name of the new article. That simple. Lordganon 13:50, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ok thanks, also, is it alright if I upload a map with a link in the middle of it? I have map generator software but the maps all have a link in the middle of them, it isn't clickable. ~Len

Please sign your posts, Len.

Power to you with the maps.

Lordganon 20:36, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Help
Hey guys its me Mitro. No I am not back, but I do need your help. A friend of mine is trying to get his wiki up and running and I offered to help. I am having some problems transfering infoboxes though. The main problem is getting this Template:NationInfo to work over at the new wiki, it looks like this instead. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. Mitro 12:12, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Odd. Has to be that it's calling on something else here that's not there, I'd think. Try adding some spaces, maybe, between the sections - whatever the code for that may be - and maybe try taking out the stuff in the squiggle brackets after the headers, since they seem to be appearing in the view of the template. Removing and previewing it, those went away when I did that. No idea how that would impact it being functional, mind. Lordganon 14:56, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright so I managed to make it look a little better, it is starting to line up, at least main sections of the box. But the subsections keep sticking out to the right.  Why is that?  Mitro 16:32, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm.... seems to me that its an issue involving the spacing being off, for some of it, and/or an issue with the size of the "box" everything is in overall.

Don't forget to remove the "otl" and "timeline" parts - that may well make a difference too.

Lordganon 23:11, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

2012 Stirling Awards
Well, we're a month away from when I'll be putting them up, now.

So, I figure I may as well start this now.

Last year we had some discussion about increasing the number of awards, and it was decided to look at increasing the number of them. So, I'm asking here for suggestions.

I've a couple in mind to add myself, but I'm interested in any ideas you guys may have.

To have a look at the ones we did last year, look here. All of them'll be back, methinks.

Lordganon 03:50, November 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well this year, since (I don't believe) we have not had any major drama/ban episodes like last year, may we retire it for the year, and keep it on hold, just in case?
 * As for new ideas, I was wondering how a "Best New Contributor" award, for someone who has only joined the Wiki since 2011, but has already proven themselves to be a good editor and such? Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 16:02, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I like that as an idea for another award.

As for the first part.... Well, we have had issues. Largely with sockpuppeters, but still there.

Lordganon 16:06, November 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, I just didn't know, having been busy for a while to get to involved in the drama here, unlike last time... Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 16:15, November 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * We had some good bans this year though. Rebelsoldier and Eldwolf. CrimsonAssassin 16:34, November 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * How can we forget this guy: 82.11.90.152 (for the thing he posted on LG's talkpage), anybody blocked him yet?? ;) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imperium Guy 17:00, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

?

That guy commented on it, Imp.

The one that did it is blocked, bigtime.

Lordganon 17:09, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Oops, soz!! :L Imperium Guy 17:13, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking maybe we should ammend the rule on nominating your own articles, maybe the day before the close of nominations if there are categories with one or less nominations perhaps open it up to a limited number of self nominations? Maybe to a maximum of 3 nominations (so we don't get like 15 people nominating their own stuff). We had quite a few last year that only had one nomination and I'd rather avoid victory by default if we can.Oerwinde 17:24, November 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above comment. Also, as a stylistic idea, what if some of the awards are named after the first timelines that won last year (meaning that the Lifetime Achievement Award, won by 1983:Doomsday last year, now be called the 1983:Doomsday Lifetime Achievement Award)? I think this would be a good way to continuously recognize these timeline's, even though they can't be nominated. The file awards (Photoshop, Map, Flag, etc) would be more difficult to name, and I don't think it would work for the editor awards (like best Male, Female, etc. etc.), but I think it would be nice to do so. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 19:38, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well, most of the ones that only had a single nominee last year were because of the rarity of the items in the category. Others only got one because of people not wanting to nominate someone else. I've already made notes for myself to redo the wording of a few of them to try and avoid this. If it comes to be an issue, we'll look into opening them up for a category or three later on, I think.

That's a nice idea, Tb, but a touch too much. Way I figure things, lifetime achievement awards are never named after people otl, so there's no reason to do so here. If you think about it, it's actually a knock against any future winners too, basically saying that they aren't as good as the first winner. Agreed on the other ones, though.

Lordganon 03:06, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

I have an idea for an award, I d never win it, but here it is: "Best Map Maker Award, or "Best Cartographer Award" for realy good and dedicated map makers.

DeanSims 15:53, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

There is already a "map" award for that purpose. Lordganon 17:58, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

After some thinking, I've come to the conclusion that Oer and Tb have a point for opening up slightly a few of the categories. Way I figure it, three of the ones from last year that only had one nominee - there were six, but I think we can agree that three of them, for best female writer, best TSPTF member, and best template would not qualify - will be slightly more opened. These would be Best OTL/non-AH article, Best Non-English Wiki, and Best Photoshopped Picture.

And, the ones I'd like to add, both from suggestions, as well as my own thoughts.....

Outright New


 * Best New Contributor (From Tb)
 * Best New 1983: Doomsday Article (Since it's the biggest timeline here)
 * Best ASB Timeline (Be it either a lifetime or "best of" award, or both)
 * Maybe some sort of "Editor of the Year" Award.

Splits


 * I'd like to take the "Best Article" and "Lifetime Achievement Award: Article" and subdivide them into "Nations" and "Other" Categories.
 * A similar variation, with the "Lifetime Achievement Award: File" split into some form of "Maps" "Flags" and "Other."

Modifications


 * And, lastly, the "Best OTL/non-AH article" would get opened in some form to include more than articles - i.e. forum posts, wall posts, talk pages, blogs, etc. Since those are when most of that is, lol.

Thoughts?

Lordganon 00:30, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Decided against a few of them. But, the new edition is now online. Lordganon 09:07, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

And Voting has now started! Lordganon 16:22, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

A Modest Proposal
As a member of the duly elected top administrators - "lovingly" referred to as the "Brass" - I wish to propose a modest proposal. What if decisions of the magnitude of changing the rules of these rewards - created last year by retired Brass Mitro - be changed or interpreted by the TSPTF and not by one member thereof? This is, of course, in response to the ongoing discussion about the "Best Map Game" category, which along with all awards for categories require 'creation' during the calendar year rather than any sort of fiscal year. This proved to be a problem for one nomination for a worthy candidate - Principia Moderni - which was unfortunately created on December 20, 2010 at a time when most everyone had other things on their mind (the holidays!) and thus not put to use until a month later thus 'coming alive' in 2011. The game turned out to be very popular and is still ongoing.

However, one of the "Brass" - Lordganon - has adopted the mantle of caretaker of those awards. While checking eligibility for the award, LG saw the first posts (including one of his own) to this game were in December, and disqualified the game. The player that took up managing the game, DetectiveKenny, conceded that it was a shame that a technicality had taken the game from contention and seemed willing to let it go, in the course of the argument, LG, became what appears to be sole arbiter on this matter. Below is in essence the argument so far. I apologize for gaps, but the full discussion can be found here and here.


 * Once again, RWG, PR was started in 2010 and is thus not eligible. Please look at the histories before you nominate anything else. I've removed it. Lordganon 08:28, December 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * To be technical, it was created in 2010 (Dec 21) but started in January 2011. It's okay that it's not eligible though. IMO in the future (2013 onward) we should go by starting date, because there as is the case here, the game was essentially recycled from a game that would have otherwise never started. But this is probably not the right place to discuss that so I will stop talking… Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 05:36, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * When it "started" is irrelevant. It was created in 2010, not 2011. End of Discussion. Permanently. Lordganon 06:40, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think there should be an exception for Principia Moderni as it was created after nominations began last year and didn't start until 2011 and is easily one of the best map games on the wiki. Seeing as it wasn't eligible last year since it hadn't started yet, disqualifying it this year because the page was created too early means it never had a chance. Oerwinde 20:53, December 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * If someone had desired, they could have nominated it last year. Yet, no one did. Last year, it said "created" as well, so it would have been eligible. It had its chance, yet no one took it. No exceptions. Lordganon 07:50, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * No one nominated it because it had no content yet. It was essentially a placeholder for when the game started. Its like having an award for best addition to the skyline of a city and basing eligibility on start of construction. No one is going to nominate a hole in the ground.Oerwinde 09:23, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Doesn't mean it could not have been so. And, I've seen the exact thing you describe happen, lol. We are not going to do exceptions. That defeats the entire concept, Oer. And why the dates are in here, at all. Lordganon 14:30, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I think with the nature of map games the rules next year should change.Oerwinde 16:13, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Got nothing to do with the nature of map games. Kenny resurrected a dead game three weeks after it died in 2010, which so happened to mean that it "started" in 2011. That it has been around so long is irrelevant.


 * At any rate, I'm done with this. We can discuss it next November.


 * Lordganon 16:26, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * We are not changing it at this time. Bring it up next November. Lordganon 01:08, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I neither play nor follow any of these games. But the "created in" qualifier is a rather strict category to put on something. To be fairly judged a contestant should be on a more or less equal footing. In other media such awards are for completed projects, not concepts. When it comes to some things, which cross over from other years, the "best" should be judged on participation and/or readership (fans) comparing the article(s) with other articles. Instead of "Best -- created in the year" the awards should be for simply "Best -- OF the year." But, as things go, the words "created in" are clear.


 * For fairness, the discussion should not 'wait until next November," but should be considered now. ... SouthWriter 04:08, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest that you go an read their statements again.


 * Oer: "Well I think with the nature of map games the rules next year should change."


 * South: "But, as things go, the words "created in" are clear."


 * South's is a little hedgy, but Oer's isn't.


 * I've already given you a concession. To quote: "Because of all of this unneeded foolishness I've made a note to add some better categories to solve the issue next year." But you're angry enough that you didn't notice.


 * Lordganon 06:46, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * If I were to weigh in on the specific issue of Principia, I'd say it definitely should count as a 2011 addition to the wiki. It was created too late for last year's awards, so therefore it is part of the 2011 season, as it were. If Principia just belongs to no year, and is thus never allowed to "compete" because of this technicality, this would seem to go against the purpose of the awards, namely identifying the wiki's best content. If someone created a timeline next week and it blossomed over the subsequent months, I would likewise want it to be recognized for 2012. Benkarnell 19:01, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I have put in bold what I feel are pertinent points. As I see it, It is three "Brass" against one "Brass" with one still yet unheard of. Oerwinde, Benkarnel, and myself (SouthWriter) have expressed our opinion on this matter in favor of including this unfortunately timed article as a nominee, though Ower and I concede the literal reading goes against that inclusion. Ben, though, would have it included as an exception - something Lordganon has categorically denied on his own, seeking to end discussion immediately on the strength of the literal reading. I suggest that the opinion of the Brass collectively is that the rule should be changed -- this year -- in order to prevent injustice in this case. It is within our power to do so, for this is not a theocracy where 'rules' are put in stone.

Simply put, this is a decision of the group, and especially of the leadership thereof, and not in the hands of one person. By proposal is that the opinion of the majority of the Brass should overrule a single members opinion. --SouthWriter 04:34, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting - especially since most of your bolded points are not very "pertinent" and you're missing the vast majority of what was actually said, South.

I tried to hopefully end that, or to at least put it off until cooler heads prevailed, to avoid that arguing from occurring. But no one could be bothered to see that, and they kept on going - just like every argument I've been blamed for for months - and we now have pages of arguing because of it. And now, South is demonizing me for it.

I've given out numerous concessions, which this ignores, and have been effectively belittled with the one quote. I've already established that some rules will change when I do the next ones, and the most of the suggested awards would get added in one form or another. Not that you'd see that with the snippets quoted here.

And that's ignoring the month I gave to hopefully avoid this trash before it could even start, before I posted the awards. But I get no credit for that, either. Add to that that this is attempting to change the rules halfway through the nominations, which is far too late.

Hell, I even said that despite my opinion of the game, I'd nominate PR myself for a lifetime award next year. But to read this, you'd never know it.

Oer, you will note, changed his response as that went on to it getting changed next year. And while he will deny it, South did say "But, as things go, the words "created in" are clear," which to me implies the same thing to some degree (as South has misquoted me for his own argument, my statement that his was a little "sketchy" was left out entirely, too, so take this as you will) Oer noted that too, in a form, and even Ben did concede that point while he specifically disagreed with it. And that was something I copied word for word from the version that Mitro and Red put up last year.

Lordganon 10:17, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Guys I am all for following the rules, but this is a wiki and rules can sometimes cause more problems then they solve. My advice to everyone, take a step back and ask yourself if this discussion is really worthwhile. The Stirling Awards are meant to be fun community wide activity. The moment it stops being fun is the moment it stops being worthwhile. Mitro 14:16, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

First, thank you Mitro, for stepping in as a voice of reason. I was not trying to cause trouble with this proposal but only to speak to the nature of the 'rules' of the wiki. This is not a "one man show" with a single administrator who can make rules and over-rule the opinions of others.

Now, to the point of my post. My bolding of portions was to make a point - not to the merits of the case for inclusion, but for the apparent assumption of monarchical control over the process. Yes, the proposal includes the changing of the rule as viewed from the opinions of other administrators, but it is just that, the opinions of others. This is, indeed about Lordganon. I try to be gentle, but the community has been putting up with this from before he was elected as top administrator. His response above shows more of the same attitude. I put in bold the parts where he takes an authoritarian stance even after the opinions of his peers show disagreement.

I did go back to the discussion page started the first of November, and the discussion went in the direction of new categories, not potential technicalities. No one foresaw the problem that arose, so it was not addressed in that discussion. Holding that against the plaintiffs in this case is ridiculous. In preparing this response, I looked not just at this discussion, but the history of the nominations themselves. Interestingly, it was LurkerLordB who first nominated PM for the award, withdrawing it 5 minutes later when he apparently noticed a problem (looking for 'clarification'). That was on December 1st. Then, about two-and-a-half hours later, CrimsonAssasin notes the ineligibility of the game in another setting, but the notation is removed by LG about an half hour later commenting there was 'no need' for it. Ironic, I would say. And so, when RandomWriterGuy nominates PM again on the 4th, at least three editors were aware of the problem. This was at the very beginning of the nomination process, not "half way through the nominations." It was to the remark that "it was started in 2010" that Kenny corrected LG on a technicality, and then offered as suggested change for next year.

That should have ended it, or moved the discussion to this page at least. But being corrected, that "start" and "create" are not the same thing, LG took the opportunity to attempt to end the discussion with a stark: '''End of discussion. Permanently.'''

If he were indeed the sole administrator, then that would have been it. But then Oerwinde, Lordganon's peer, remarked that in his opinion there should be an exception, LG restated his resolve speaking for the group saying "We" rather than "I." This is the point of my proposal and why I put in bold his continued statements to the effect that his decision was made for now.

To Oer's response "changing" in the end, I attempted to emphasize that his opinion was a concession, to hopefully end the argument. That is why I put the word "Well" in bold letters while including the whole conversation between him and LG. When I posted, I was attempting to agree with Oer on the issue of fairness. And far from denying what I wrote, I put that in bold as well (But,...), emphasizing that it was the wording I was agreeing with -- "created in 2011" cannot be interpreted away, which is the reason the group as a whole wants to change the wording. My original comment goes on to concede the argument as well, suggesting that no one post any new project this month to avoid this problem in the future.

So, yes, it is worthwhile to avoid argument when possible. But to do it by decree is not the way to do it. This invites dissent in a democracy or, as in this case an oligarchy (the Brass weighing in three to one). None of wanted this to continue, but we did not want an injustice to be done in the process. As Mitro pointed out, the awards were meant to be fun, not to be used to "lord it over" a nomination on a technicality. Only a handful of editors are even involved in the nomination and voting for most awards as it is -- LG himself offering nominations that, unless there is participation by others, will win by default. If it's going to be fun, there is no reason that rules cannot be changed by those in "authority," even half-way through the process. As long as the majority agrees with the change, there need not be any argument. --SouthWriter 18:43, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Mitro, for the neutral voice. It's been missed, and I am sorry that you've had to get involved with some of the stuff going on around here lately.

Yes, the main point of that post was for new categories - one of which, if someone had bothered to bring it up, could have been another one for Map Games. Yet no one did, and that held true even after I posted the new ones I was planning on adding. Add to that that it was asking for suggestions, which if someone had been interested, could have included anything. Yet, no one did anything.

I removed that little note of Crims because it was unneeded. For pete's sake, I had to even add a note about comments like that - i.e. not to do them and to save them for voting. South does not seem to have noticed that. By the time that anything got really proposed, several days had passed - too late.

Actually, Kenny did no such thing with regards to "correcting." It is painfully obvious what was meant in the first post - i.e. not when the game itself started, but when it was created. Heck, even Kenny saw that.

"We" - as in a slight slip of the tongue in a sea of I's. That should be pretty obvious.

Not my problem if South doesn't like my ways of trying to get arguing to stop and prevent it - often times, it's the only way. Of course, he's also a case of the pot calling the kettle black, since he posted all of this  in the first place.

Despite my efforts to keep the page up and noticeable, few people are making nominations, true enough. Like what happened last year, unfortunately, though I like to think I'm keeping in more "out there" than last year's were. I will also freely admit right now that on the 25th or so, I will probably open nominations in all sections to people nominating one of their own creations - heck, unless more are made, it's equally possible, I think that it would be allowing two nominations by each person, though I'd prefer to avoid that. But I really don't get why South is even mentioning that, since he's not done anything in that regard himself.

Lordganon 02:30, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

I wish greatly that Principia Moderni could be nominated, but Lordganon does have a good point that it is too late now. The best we can hope for is that Principia Moderni's auxillary pages will get good enough to win it the Lifetime award next year.

However, I will say that Lordganon does do a large amount of "end of discussion, no more talking of this!" statements, which could seem rather authoritarian in nature. LurkerLordB 03:04, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * If you ask me, this discussion was simply ridiculous. One person got his way, when literally nobody agreed with him.  This is not the way that this should be run. Benkarnell 06:13, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

New Account
I've created an new account named Enterprise Captain. I wanted to alert the TSPTF that this new account was created by me, Enclavehunter, and not some vandaliser. The signature is my new username!EnterpriseCaptain 23:32, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Forget what I said on the top, this is my backup account!EnterpriseCaptain 00:08, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Backup account? You've got some explaining to do.

What exactly are you doing? Because no matter what, an account is getting blocked - it only remains seeing whether it is both or not.

Lordganon 02:54, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

If your suggesting I was block, I wasn't. It's just for just-in-case situations. I wouldn't try to bypass any block, my high school teacher told us that if you try to get around something, you won't get any reward. By just-in-case, I mean forgotten password or anything else that can go wrong with an account. I'm not doing this to try to get around something.76.175.88.217 04:52, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. I forgot to log in. The previous statement was mine.Enclavehunter 04:54, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

If everyone did that, it would be chaos for the moderators to try and keep track of who is who. If you forget your password or it is stolen, you can easily state your case and you can create a new account, and your unusable account will be blocked, with no problem. While it's not illegal by official Wikia policy, the admins here need one account per person. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 05:08, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I'll stick with my current one, Enclavehunter. I'm sorry for all the confusion and stuff.Enclavehunter 05:15, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

More or less what I figured - that you didn't know better. I've blocked that "backup" account permanently. And let me say this - you are lucky that you said something, as if you had not, both would be blocked forever.

Lordganon 05:28, November 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Kenny has it about right, but I was not aware of our ability to determine at a glance the existence of a dual identity. If EH had not alerted us of the existence of EC, then there would have been no problem until EC began to post separately - like voting twice for a candidate or something. Even the same IP address would not be a dead give-away, for EH may have a sibling who useds the same computer. Other editors have created new accounts without any problems and without 'getting permission' from administrators. That is not in our job description. However, the problem of 'sock puppets' has proven that different accounts are often opened to 'get around' blocks on account holders who are misbehaving.


 * With EH telling us ahead of time, he did nothing wrong. Now, though, a perfectly good altar ego has been snuffed out. One of our regular editors once began posting with a new name and it lasted for months before he switched back to his old one. I don't recall a hoopla about that. In fact, there have been several that have changed names. Let's just say that it can get confusing. Changed names are hard to track when mischief does occur, and as such should be avoided until your old one becomes unusable for some reason. SouthWriter 14:17, November 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't really see the point in making 2 accounts at once, unless it was to cheat at a map game/poll/something. If you wanted to change your name, it probably would be easier to just ask for 1 to be banned and 1 to be unbanned. Having a backup account doesn't make much sense, if you forget the password to one, you can just get Wikia to send you the email for it, and you should record passwords in multiple places. LurkerLordB 03:05, November 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * From what I've seen, Enclave is a pretty honest guy, otherwise he probably would not have told us about his "backup" username. I would advise to save your password as a draft on your e-mail address. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imperium Guy 19:55, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Interactive map of history
Hi, is there any interactive map of timelines ? I mean something like a gui interface for browsing the history ,which can show timeline's events or two timelines and differences between them (for example easy way to see the map in 1822 in two alternate histories) or present the timeline as a tree of events/submissions/subtimelines ?

If something like that doesn't exist I wonder if there are editors that feel the need of it or would just like to see such an alternative approach .I am not sure if it's easy to add that to wikia functuonalluty as something like mediawiki extension, but it's possible to create it independently of wikia's software,using its API.

If somebody is interested ,I am open to suggestions (I'd love to connect my alternate history interest with my programming interest) :)

Zeifodd 10:08, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

None that I know of at the moment. Sorry. CrimsonAssassin 05:15, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Help
All my edit things have been mucked up, whats going on?? Imperium Guy 16:18, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Got me. Probably just wikia messing with things. Wait a few days, and if it remains, talk to them. Lordganon 03:30, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well, after I closed my browser and opened it again. It was fine. I think I like the older colour better though!! :D Imperium Guy 21:29, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

Stirlings Awards
Perhaps a "most vandalized page" or "most vandalized user page"? PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 01:15, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Best ban or the like is one thing, this is another. That's just asking for it. Lordganon

Obsolete
I got a question. What does obsolete mean?Enclavehunter 03:46, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obsolete

Lordganon 04:59, November 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * In this wiki, especially in a group project, an obsolete article is one that has been pre-emptied by new information, usually after being vetted and shown to be lacking. Sometimes, though, an editor decides to move an article in a whole new direction and so the old article is useful only as a reference. This is an alternative to outright deletion. SouthWriter 05:34, November 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay. Thanks LG and SouthWriterEnclavehunter 06:52, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Greater Prominence of Map Games than Main page would imply
Currently, the main page does not even have a link to the map game page, or any other mention of them. However, a majority of recent activity of this wiki has either been on map games, or pages related to them. It seems strange that such a prominent part of this wiki, perhaps the most prominent part currently, is not mentioned on the main page at all. I think that there should at least be a link to the main map game page, and perhaps a featured map game in addition to a featured timeline?LurkerLordB 23:29, November 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ugh, no, not a featured map game, please! A link, however, I agree with. Fed (talk) 23:32, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

No way we will ever do a featured map game. They come and go so fast, that we would be featuring the same couple of them all of the time.

As for a link - and this applies to the featured idea, too - quite frankly, the map games cost us visitors from the established AH community. We are thought of as a joke in some corners because of it. No need to advertise any of it.

Lordganon 06:17, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

I would support a link, on the right side with the other topical links. We shouldn't be overly concernet with AH.com; I know they make fun of the games, but I can't imagine that the games actually "cost us visitors." They have games over there too, after all, some better than ours, some worse. Benkarnell 00:44, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

On a PROVISIONAL and TEMPORARY basis, I have added a link to "Alternate History Games" to the menu. I'd like to discuss it here, but I wanted to have something to discuss. I will happily take it down if consensus says it doesn't belong. Benkarnell 00:51, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, Looking at the recent activity, it would probably lose us more visitors by banning them than by keeping them, so we might as well promote such a large part of this wiki. LurkerLordB 00:56, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

IMO, the problem isn't we being the only one to have map games (after all, we aren't), but the fact we're the place where map games are the most prevalent. And it is considered ridiculous. They probably are discouraging other forums' althistorians to joining or visiting the wiki.

Also, the point isn't banning the map games. It's just not promoting the alternate history wiki as "DA HOME OF DA MAP GAMEZ!!!!!1!". Fed (talk) 01:09, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

We're not promoting the alternate history wiki as the Home of the Map games, we're adding one small link to the map game page that can be accessable on the menu. It still downplays the prominence they have on the site. LurkerLordB 01:18, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Just for the sake of comparison: AH.com links to their games from their homepage, but only registered users can see either the link or the games themselves.

It would be possible to make the link even smaller if I de-bolded it and moved it to the longer list instead of its own category. Benkarnell 02:11, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Visitors, no. But contributors, could be. We'll never ban them, but promoting them would be a stretch, really.

A link is tolerable - really, my concern is that we lose more potential contributors, in that regard. But it probably should be a touch less obvious, you know?

Lordganon 08:59, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

GB sent me this, figured I'd post it here so that you guys can get an idea of what I mean.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=211130&page=37

Around halfway down.

Lordganon 00:12, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Having spent some time recently on AH.com I can tell you this: they are overly harsh about everyone. Not everyone is going to be a fan about what you do. Personally I say don't worry about it. There is no reason the two communities should be competing. Mitro 00:25, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I've noticed that there, too. Not really bothered by it, per se, but it is something I'd like to see change, you know? Lordganon 00:33, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

O sure, it sucks when someone criticizes something you care about, but often it is inevitable that it is going to happen. All you can really do is shrug your shoulders and move on. I have seen first hand what happens when a group fights what they are and what happens when they finally embrace it. Mitro 14:14, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * In all honesty, AH.com probably has just as many unrealistic timelines and crackpot ideas as we do, but since they're a forum, these threads just sort of fade into oblivion, whereas ours are always there, categorized and easy to see.


 * AH.com does have a stronger culture of constructive criticism than we do. This also has to do with the format, I think, since on a forum there's no disctinction between content and discussion, so it feels a lot easier to step in and say, "I don't get what you said just here," than on this wiki, where you have to start a section on the talk page.  I get a ton more feedback on ideas that I float on AH.com than I do here.  (Look at Pragfreden, for example, which AFAIK nobody else has ever looked at, but which certainly nobody's commented on.)  That's not really going to change, either, since it's also owing to the format of the two sites.


 * On the other hand, the format here makes it infinitely easier to keep track of finished work and to work collaboratively. And we have generally fewer d-bags and not as much destructive criticism, too.  Each place has its plusses and minuses.  AH.com is much bigger than we are, so they'll set the standard for online alternate history for some time, but that's no reason to run around in a panic every time somebody over there says something critical. Benkarnell 21:35, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey, I resent that Ben, lol. I look at almost anything that gets posted on here, lol. If I thought there was something off with that timeline, I'd have said so ;) Lordganon 01:14, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Coriolanus
People may be interested in a movie coming out soon called 'Coriolanus'. Based on Shakespeare's play, it's set in a modern day Roman republic so the alternate history side is pretty significant. Anyway here is a link to a few trailers http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1372686/. From the looks of it, I really recommend it for anyone interested in Roman alternate histories.

PS I'm not pulling some marketing stunt for the movie haha I just heard about it this weekend and the concept really caught my attention.

Cheers,

Red VS Blue 02:06, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Not so much alternate history, I'd say, as it is imagining the Roman Republic with a modern look and feel. Still definitely something of interest to people here, though. It looks pretty incredible.
 * I believe Shakespeare's plays originally did just this same thing: that no matter the setting, the plays were staged with "modern" costumes and anachronistic elements. So when directors update the plays in this way, it's very much in the spirit of the original. Benkarnell 03:14, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * The impression I got was of an alternate history background. But I can imagine the whole topic of a non-ancient Roman Republic being sidestepped, since I agree with you that it's just a production choice for looks (and maybe to remove subtlety in whatever message the movie has).
 * Anyway I never hear about alternate history in general media, so I was happy when I saw this one.


 * Red VS Blue 03:01, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Category Deletion
I'm not sure if this is the right place to request this, but is there a way to delete categories? I made two by accident which are misspellings of my work-in-progress timeline, The Hammer, The Sickle, The Earth.

The Categories for deletion are:

The Hamemr, The Sickle, The Earth

The Hammer

My apologies for not doing this myself, but I am a noob at wikis.

Also, Constructive criticism of my timeline would be helpful.

SpanishSpy 03:03, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Err..... You never made any of those categories. You made a talk page for one, but none of them ever existed besides. I deleted that. And, I also removed all of the categories you added like those.

Just because you add a category for something, doesn't mean that it actually exists as one, if that makes any sense.

Lordganon 05:07, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Spotlights
Came to my attention today that Admins of the various wikis can make requests to have their wiki put up on the main wikia page as a "spotlight" - basically, featuring it like we have on our main page (of course, wikia will get to wikis eventually on their own, but....)

After having read the requirements, I see that we pretty well meet them (the main page being protected may be edgy, but that should be it)

Figured it would be a good idea.

Now, I didn't say anything to them yet or anything. Figured I'd come and ask first, since it may well mean an influx of new visitors - who have no knowledge of our ways or rules at all - if we were to get featured.

Thoughts, guys? Would it be a good thing or a bad thing?

Lordganon 08:37, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Lordganon 01:55, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Going to ask them if I haven't heard back by the first. Lordganon 09:24, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. SouthWriter 17:16, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Submitted the request. Will post back here as I hear back from them. Lordganon 02:17, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

....And, success! We have been approved to be spotlighted in the near future. I'll let you guys know when it happens. Lordganon 06:56, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Not that I've seen anything, but apparently we're either being spotlighted right now, or it just ended. As an fyi. Lordganon 08:45, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Making editable template
How would I make an editable country template, like the one here?

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/German_Empire_(DoH)

I am having a hard time wrangling with the normal template form.

Thanks,

SpanishSpy 03:35, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I think its this one: NationInfo. All you need to do is go to the nation page you want this in and paste the nation info thing. Walla, you have the editable country template! :D Imperium Guy 17:05, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Templates
Sorry to bother anyone, but I'm new and having a little trouble figuring out what to do with the templates. I don't understand what all the gibberish is on the left side or how to use it. Any help? - CourageousLife 23:02, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Which template in particular? Lordganon 07:21, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

The one I'm focused on is infobox (although most of them are driving me insane!) - CourageousLife 20:27, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Quite honestly, it's pretty straightforward. What particular infobox?

At a guess, I'm going to guess it's a nation one. If that is the case, have a look here.

Overall, have a look at the pages in this category. They will tell you a lot of what you are asking.

Lordganon 21:37, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Huh... sorry, the actual problem here is that I'm just braindead and have no idea what I'm doing. Thanks, that was really helpful and sorry about that - CourageousLife 21:56, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

No need to say sorry, lol

You're fine, some of those boxes are rather annoying, and will give anyone fits.

Lordganon 22:14, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Appreciate the help, working on my first timeline now - really excited - CourageousLife 00:20, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Alternate sports
If possible, it would be nice to add some alternate sports history as well, such as in MLB, the teams with the best record in the AL and NL go to the world series like the old days. This can be done with NFL ,NBA, and NHL as well. Or if certain things or events did not happen. This would give some interesting results. 76.20.81.112 21:56, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

ok i created an account. Itstheman1990 22:31, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

There's a few sports AH's out there already, and, indeed, several more that have changes in that regard though it is not their focus.

Have a look at the sports category here.

Lordganon 22:59, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

HOW DO I MAKE HEADINGS
HELP! IM NEW HOW DO I MAKE HEADINGS, THERES NO GOOD VIDEOS ABOUT MAKING WIKIAS ~Snerpaderp

First things first: Capslock, off.

As to the question..... you obviously know how to, because you just did it. Vary the number of equal signs for different ones.

Lordganon 03:17, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Spelling errors
Hey, there are some spelling error on the Main Page. In particular, I can't believe you want to describe your 'Featured Althist' as an 'extended wank.' ;) --Semyon 16:00, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

The word "wank" is a very valid term in alternate history used to describe things where one nation, group, person, etc. has more success than in our timeline - more or less that it/they is/are always successful, steadily expands or grow in power, and generally does way better than is plausible.

It's not a spelling mistake in the least. And as far as I can determine, there isn't any on that page right now.

But thank you for your post.

Lordganon 17:24, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

That's quite all right, and I didn't realise about the word 'wank', though some clarification might be useful. There's still 'jist' and 'isn't not' to sort out though. :) --Semyon 14:28, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Also 'influencial' and the phrase 'greatly extended the life of the empire whole' doesn't make much sense to me. There are some pluralisation issues and misuse of a semicolon as well. You also use 'althistory' and 'alt-history' interchangeably, which bothers me a bit, but probably doesn't matter. --Semyon 14:33, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Semyon, for your concern. I am sure that Lordganon will be happy to fix these errors when he gets a chance. I have the authority, but not the ability to help in this manner. I definitely need a course in wiki technical procedures! :-)

According to Wiktionary, the word "jist" is a rare alternative spelling of "gist" (meaning "essential part"). Being listed as an alternative spelling, it falls in the same category of the difference spellings of "color" and "privatization" (both marked 'wrong' by this wiki). Unfortunately, the spell checker does not catch grammar errors, but I am confident that Lordganon can fix those with no problem. --SouthWriter 21:06, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, there's the one spelling error. Referring to "the empire whole" is antiquated, but nevertheless correct, as well. Lordganon 04:45, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Excuse me, Lordganon, I listed more than one error. You seem rather sensitive about my pointing them out. --Semyon 10:13, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

...And as we've said, there is a big difference between what you listed as being errors, and what actually were, lol Lordganon 10:16, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

On the contrary. --Semyon 11:21, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Look, I would have thought you would have wanted want the front page of your wiki to look as professional as possible. Actually, I doubt you can refute any of my points. I'm not an idiot. --Semyon 11:30, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Taiwan Invasion
I am pretty sure I am right, but I may be wrong.

Is a Chinese invasion of Taiwan plausible in the 60s, even without any support from the West?

I believe it is not, as that China only has the transport capability for 20,000 soldiers at one time during the 60s, and even now, only 30,000.

And the logistics would be a.

Agreed? PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 16:26, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

More or less correct, Pita. China never had the needed transport capacity to manage it, and does not have it even today.

Ignoring, of course, the American fleet in the way lol

Lordganon 17:15, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, do you mean that Taiwan does not obtain any support from the West? If that is so, then it does tip the odds towards the Mainland quite a bit. But it's not a definite, as the Taiwanese troops were American trained and equipped after all (I'm sure the coastlines are filled with American made artileries...)

Black Prince of Britannia (talk) 01:58, November 10, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

...You missed the key points of the original post. And the response.

China in the 1960s, and even today, does not have the ability to move troops like that, or to protect the few they could manage to move.

Lordganon (talk) 07:42, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

Disbanding of the Southwest
Hey guys, I just made a new aritical, its Called The Disbanding of the American Southwest. Check it out, its not complete yet though. ~Snerpaderp

Talk about random. Lordganon 04:40, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

20,000 pages
I can't believe we are so close to the 20k mark in this wiki. Matt121 ??? Matt125 00:03, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

We just passed it today. Welcome to 20,001! CourageousLife 18:06, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

help with TL
can someone help me out with it i will be starting it from scratch using Point of View Characters in the timeline A darker Place. if your interested post me.

~Nkbeeching

Formatting Infoboxes
Infoboxes that don't use an infobox template seem to have been totally reformatted by the wiki - as far as my computer is able to show. All my country pages, despite not being edited in months, were suddenly struck by a left aligned infobox within the last few hours. If anyone knows what happened, if it's only me that's seeing it or how this can be fixed by a permanent alignment to the right I'd very much appreciate your help.

Regards,

Red VS Blue (talk) 14:43, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Other places that this would be noticeable are user pages which use an infobox (e.g. mine or LG's) and in the Content boxes of pages, which strangely have some of the headers bolded when the actual title is in bold.

Red VS Blue (talk) 18:08, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Ohmyn0/Making_your_wiki_HTML5_compliant

Wikia is doing more upgrading.

Lordganon (talk) 18:43, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, they've been messing with the code again. Just repaired my user page - at one point in my code, it had a "center" line, which while it needed it before, I had to switch to a "right" now. Try looking for that in your code. Lordganon (talk) 18:58, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

They want us to start with HTML 5. This is terrible, as AH wiki has tons of templates and tables and whatnot.

Nation infoboxes, People infoboxes, tables for leaders and stuff.

LG, you can keep your user page infobox text center. I repaired my user page too.

And I'll be honest: I copy-pasted the code from your infobox, but I did not edit your page at all.

Although, thus begins a long journey of repairing the wiki to use HTML 5. :(

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:09, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

SS, it never was centered. It's always been on the right. Code earlier in the code on the page was rendered non-functional, so it went to that line automatically instead.

Far as I can tell, our major templates are unaffected right now.

Lordganon (talk) 22:27, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, I saw a notification for the update this morning. The fixes seem simple enough to implement.

One peculiarity I noticed recently - I don't know if it's related to the switch to HTML 5 - that headings bolded in the main text are bolded in the content box, which didn't happen before. As an illustration, compare:

To This
...in the content bar at the top of the page. I'd just like to know if it's showing up on other computers.

Red VS Blue (talk) 02:49, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, you're not the only one. Seems to be another change. Have it on my page too. Lordganon (talk) 03:23, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Then I guess I'll start bolding all headings so it doesn't look weird. Red VS Blue (talk) 03:36, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Category complaint
I disagree with an ASB tag applied to my new TL, A Mughal Destiny. How can I try to get it removed? Guns (talk) 06:30, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Monobook vs. New Wiki
Which one do you guys use? Me personally, I use Monobook. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:55, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

I use Monobook as well. Easier to navigate in. -Kogasa 2012年8月27日 08:01:20 (JST)

Wikia Skin. Only so I can see Wikia Activity. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:05, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Wikia, because there's no way to get all of the features on here in Monobook. Lordganon (talk) 00:49, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Heh. I switch over to wikia when I'm doing templates, and that's about it. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:33, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Help
hoqw do i put out the table with the different information for a war or a country thats in the top right hand corner?if im not supposed to ask here sorry.

Nkbeeching

No problemo. In the editing screen, go to the right side panel. Click Templates. Then click add other templates. The, for war, type in Infobox MIlitary Conflict1. When it opens, just fill it out. For a country, you'll see one named NationInfo. Click that and it fill it out too. Voila!

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:55, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Scraw Nkbeeching

You're welcome. Just a fair warning though, you might have some problems at first.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:02, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

... Easier way (though longer).

Go to source and type in

There are, of course, other categories, those however are the only ones that spring to mind.

The Royal Guns (talk) 10:55, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Help with templates
I need a professional-looking template for the episode list for an alternate history television show. I need a template that can emulate the kinds of episode tables seen on wikipedia. I want to have the sense that my article could be found on an alternate history version of wikipedia. Could someone please help me? Yank 05:44, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Time to Play Promotion
Wikia's going to be running a new promotion soon, called "Time to Play." You can find more out about it here.

Wikis that are interested will get advertised on their page on a random basis until the end of the next month.

We can always use it, so I'm going to put us in for it.

The question is, should we have them link to the main page? Or something else? Maybe a timeline? Or...?

Suggestions?

Lordganon (talk) 05:30, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

The guidelines seem to indicate that we are to discuss "our best," and then communicate that back to the wiki officials. The banner will be on the main page AND on that featured article. Based on my participation and on past outside interest, I would suggest 1983: Doomsday. However, we have an excellent list of "featured timelines" to chose from. Whatever we choose will end up drawing attention to the whole wiki, so we can't lose! SouthWriter (talk) 16:57, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Doomsday it is. I was thinking about doing either it or Napoleon's World anyways, lol. Lordganon (talk) 04:09, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Wikia staff added the links and banners this morning. Lordganon (talk) 03:24, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Maps
Perhaps this might be a stupid question. But where do people make all these maps? Thanks...

Black Prince of Britannia (talk) 20:40, November 9, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

Take a blank map, and use a program such as Photoshop or GIMP to edit it. Lordganon (talk) 07:40, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

If you are looking for blank maps, good clean maps are found at worldatlas.com. You will have to "copy image" or just "save as" (then use the given file name or make a new name). The format is GIF. Other sources may give JPG format which are pixilixed and a headache to work with. Some older computers, or just old timers like me, use MS Paint which used to come with Windows. I loaded to my newer computer because I had grown used to it. However, the newer programs allow for better control of what you end up with. Whenever loading a map to the wiki, though, make sure that it is in a format that is accepted. SouthWriter (talk) 23:28, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I really appreciate it!

Black Prince of Britannia (talk) 05:44, November 11, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

Pixlr works too, if you don't have windows, don't want to pay money or download... The Royal Guns (talk) 01:11, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

I suggest MS Paint over Pixlr actually. But that's just my opinion. In other news, don't worry about it. Common quesion for newer user unfamiliar with the excess of program available with their computers (if you have Windows, that is.) Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:15, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Right. Though, if you have windows, I recommend getting a mac, because other than MS, windows has absolutely NO benefits over apple. The Royal Guns (talk) 01:20, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

We "tripled the profits on a PC" and "people with jobs use PC." And you "can still afford a doctor if you bought a PC." Scraw (I think)

Yeah, well, that's like trying to argue that a Ford Focus is better than a Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670–4 because the Ford COSTS less. Stupid arguement. Mac has quality. The Murciélago has quality. PC has bugs in everything, slow software. Focus doesn't have as many bugs, but it maxes at 152, whereas you can do 210 without breaking a sweat in a Murciélago. The Royal Guns (talk) 20:24, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

You didn't get the reference, did you? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:51, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Nope, I really don't think he did. Guns, look up epic rap battles of history on youtube :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:50, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Terminology (x2)
Was helping someone create account. Noticed two terminology links in the topics area. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 22:28, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Dealt with. Lordganon (talk) 03:48, December 27, 2012 (UTC)