User talk:Nkbeeching

Hi
I saw that you play axis vs allies reoloaded, and wondered if you wouold like to try out my new map game, its kind of like axis vs allies reloaded but different in several key ways, here it is: States of America Revised and Reloaded (Map Game).

DeanSims 18:07, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. Enclavehunter 16:47, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

hey, if your adiea was the vive le revolution on the map game idea page, thwe game has been created, and your position as head mod and creator of the game is open for you. DeanSims 17:54, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Avaro
Nick, do you [New Granada] want to become an observer in the Axis. You won't need to attack when we do, but you will enjoy the benefits of having a protective shadow over you to protect you. How's that? BTW, don't forget to sign on talkpages!! Just repeat this button: ~, four times and you have your signature! :D Imperium Guy 11:00, February 25, 2012 (UTC)



Egypt: We liberated Libya and Benghzi, so we get the point of the republics of Amazonia, Mato Grosso, and Para. You don't need to pay Brazil, if noboddy else says so, I hope they take it in good faith to. we can singe a mutual defence treaty next move just incase the British don't get the point and cause trouble. :-)The River Nile-2 13:51, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

alright but chile has to return its peice of atlantic brazil, and change the colours of the three new republics so that they are both n.g. and chile coulors seeing as it will be a joint area of influence.

Rio Grande (Avaro)
Hi Nkbeeching! In Avaro map game I (as Chile) had previosly suggested that the Rio Grande region in Southern Brazil (which in chilean control) also to become in a independent state, but i didn't recieve answer. :/ --Katholico 20:39, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Lets leave that area i am in no condition to keep pushing them ill be pressuring the axis in others ways later on or ill join your side if the NPA gets to powerful, fropm now on lets sustain a united latin front wat you say?


 * Ehhh... forgive me. I did't understand fully what you said. XD Was a "Yes"? XD --Katholico 21:18, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Also would you like to join the timeline I am working on? It's called Bourbon France. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:37, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Alliance and recognition (SoC)
Vietnam: We have seen that Thailand is fighting a civil war. After the civil war is over, Vietman asks if Thailand would help Vietnam gain control of Indochina. In return, Vietnam will help Thailand to gain power over the Malay pinnensula. What do you think about this deal? Imperium Guy 13:06, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

We request that all of malaysia, and a small portion of laos, and cambodia which were part of the kingdom of siam before being stolen by the europeans be handed over to use.


 * Vietnam apologises to Thailand over the handing over of small portions of Loas and Cambodia as they are dear to Vietnam, but does agree on the whole of Malaysia. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imperium Guy 20:49, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * we will decide in the future the fate of laos and cambodia ok.

Libera & Italy
Hey, I could use Italy's help in aquiring French West Africa for Libera. I would be happy to offer resources to Italy as payment for your help, and assist you in any ventures that would take place in Africa. I've asked Germany and Britian for help as well, but I'm unaware as to who France's enemies are. --"Truth fears no questions..." 02:21, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ask else where man im an ally of france since the start of the game.

Avaro
Egypt could send peace keepers to maintaine the OTL Panamá-Costa Rica border (kicking El Salvador out of North Panamá) and the UN should get Panamá Canal.90.244.92.117 00:58, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Here is how I wish to see South America:

All you need to do is your vassal should negociate with the proper Brazilian government to unite your country. This will have to take atleast 5 years or 10 in-game years to achieve.

So play the game well, be plausible and be careful how you tread, as you have beome the USA of Avaor, neo-imperialistic and having Nigeria vassalized.

You will evetually have to release Nigeria but you won't need to release Brazil. :D Imperium Guy 20:46, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

quick thing imperium nigeria isnt a vassal but an investment interest read my posts from the last 2 decades youll see what its about, also we have no interest in expanding the Nueva Granadan republic doing so will destroy our nation in many ways including ideology from peru and ethnic problems form amazonia we wish to leave brazil as 2 or 3 seperate states if possible all under our influence we will keep them as equal partners but if they unite our dominence in latin america will collapse after the game i want to end the game in latin america atleast till 2050 under N.G. "protection" even if we dont play it till that year.

VLR
'''Hey i noticed you quit the game. You're welcome to play as China if you wanted an Asian culture. I just don't want to lose you as a player because you're dedicated to the game(unlike alot of players). Anyways get bback to me on that. Also if you don't want to keep playing its fine but i'd appreciate it if you would help me spread the word and get more players, i really don't want the game to die. Thanks.AP (talk) 22:52, July 13, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''Go ahead and take it, he doesnt post anyway. And could you also use New Granada at the same time too?AP (talk) 02:01, July 14, 2012 (UTC)'''

TL
Where is your TL, if I may ask? :D Imperium Guy 14:20, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

its A Greater Spanish American War

Seven Years War
THE MAP GAME HAS BEGUN! --RandomWriterGuy (talk) 00:54, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Lincon's Mistake
Sure, but we really have to fix up your signature! This is what you should put in your preferences: Nkbeeching And enable wikitext! :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:06, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

I will help to lay it out. Putting chapters, certinly a new idea for telling a TL. Only ever been attempted before by RvB in the Superpowers TL. :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:14, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

I will help, yes. Very interesting premise. :) Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:22, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, I'd be happy to help out. --"Truth fears no questions..." 20:03, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, continue. TLs don't get deleted for ASBness. Look at GSW. The Royal Guns (talk) 08:40, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Lobositz Lamentable Loss
Sorry for the delay, but the game has now begun! RandomWriterGuy (talk) 05:44, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Lobolitz lementable loss
Sounds good, i'll deffinatley cooperate and as long as you don't bother me in Kamatcha, ill leave you be in the northern pacific islands. Also sounds good about china too. octiman10 02:42, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

I am planning for a Chinese dynastic change in the 1790s, but within a decade of that they will start to expand their influence outward. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:48, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Imperialism II
Game has begun. --RandomWriterGuy (talk) 20:03, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
Yes, I'd be willing to give you a hand. Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 16:44, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

I've made a couple corrections to the main page of the Timeline, mostly of the grammatical kind. Wondering what you plan to do...Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 17:16, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Man... you really, really, REALLY, need to check your ability with English. Honest, I've seen too many mistakes in the Western Europe timeline...

Yeah, it's pretty ok, without Admiral Yi Korea would have been screwed. However, you need to mention General Kwon Yul. He was a pretty good general. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:25, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Also, look here for more info on him. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:26, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, it sounds good to me.

Also, how about you send your stuff to me before you publish because your work actually needs some corrections. No offense. But one easy thing to remember: start every sentence with a capital letter and put a period (this . ) or these ( ! and ? ) at the end. Should work. :D

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:15, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Mostly grammatical, but partially historical too.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:34, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Mostly the Russian one. The Rurik were politically destablizing. They would have fallen anyways. A new house can come to power, not necessarily the Romanovs, but someone.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:43, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I have no idea who Yi Hon is, could you clarify? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:42, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Aah, him, no, I don't think he did, he had a daughter though. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:48, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, if he had a son, I didn't ever know, I was under the assumption that he had a daughter and no sons. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:55, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry bout that, wish I could have helped you. Good luck on your TL! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:15, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's fairly good, pretty plausible, although I'm sure the Japanese would have had a little bit more trouble. Not a lot, but a little bit in taking over Korea. The problem was, obviously, that most of the Korean generals really didn't care about anything but their careers, a lot like Washington politicians today. But there were a few good ones out there, and the paramilitary militia (peasant militia) actually had more success than the actual army. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:03, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, sounds good to me! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:20, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Question
Well, I am not exactly a great map painter. I just take a normal map and draw the lines.Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 22:29, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

China vs Japan in LLL
In the Map game Lobositz's Lamentable loss, know that I am willing for Japan to take Chinese Sakhalin, Korea, and Taiwan without an algorithm, as long as you wage the war in the1770's or 1780's. I am afraid that anything else, or after those dates, will require an algorithm. If you don't intefere in the 1790's in China, then a large part of China will break away as an NPC, and also the main part of China wll no longer be as hostile for Japan. LurkerLordB (Talk) 17:17, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

If you would be willing to move your territorial goals for mainland China north (to Manchuria) and wait for the fall of the Qing in two and a half in-game decades, you can gain quite a lot of land. LurkerLordB (Talk) 20:20, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Your PODs are interesting, and your timeline is fairly good. Having multiple PODs can get sort of confusing though, but it's not that big of a deal. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:23, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Aragonese Nobility. Try checking the Wikipedia. Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 16:20, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

The story is quite good. The only problem, as I said, is your English. Better get back into track with that! (Don't forget to sign, either) Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 16:54, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

The Euro timeline looks good, so far. Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 18:30, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Victor? I think he is a bit beastly. Though, he might in fact be what England needs to expand into the New World. Milarqui, The Spaniard (talk) 06:51, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

PM II
Hello.

You interested in an alliance with the Ashikaga Shogunate? -Kogasa 2012年9月07日 01:55:34 (JST)

A Darker Place
Looks nice. I like how Japan tactics managed to defeat the Chinese leaving them shattered, lol. Also, England managing to take over France sounds interesting, you think the French will be able to fight it back in the future?

Interesting how the Toyotomi Family managed to keep in power as well..

Overall, I like the time-line. Can't wait to see how it develops from there. :] -Kogasa 2012年9月07日 02:41:27 (JST)

Lincoln's Mistake
Add the "delete" tag to it. Same goes for any page you want deleted. Lordganon (talk) 01:03, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

China-Japan War
I actually forgot about our previous discussion. So no algorithm needed if you just want to take Sakhalin and Korea. I would like this war to last a while (like 6-7 years) though. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:13, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

China
Good enough. :]

I'll take and  in the end after the war in China only though (to be part of Thailand). -Kogasa 2012年9月14日 06:10:13 (JST)

Greater Siam? Well I'm kinda a bit afraid of Britain (which has India and Malaysia) and France (Indochina) would easily attack me and bit more afraid that other powers would also jump in.

Plus there isn't much I could do, since those major powers would easily conquer Siam, even with some support.

How do you plan to make Greater Siam? -Kogasa 2012年9月14日 06:49:16 (JST)

Sure. Why not. Enclavehunter (talk) 22:04, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Please Join the Axis Powers
The Axis Powers would love to have you join our Allaince as a full bodied member. If accepted after the wars end numerous territorial concessions will be given to you. Please consider this and join soon, we

THE AXIS WANTS YOU! Proud Leader of the Althistory Revolution (User talk:DeanSims) 13:46, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

The Axis Offers you these borders as well as more fo China not shown here and Indochina as well as Siam and the full annexation of Korea plus some Pacific Islands. Proud Leader of the Althistory Revolution (User talk:DeanSims) 01:52, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

The Wars
Right, onward to the Dutch East Indies.

I'll send many military to there as much as possible to help the Indonesian rebellions. -Kogasa 2012年9月15日 20:26:56 (JST)

under the consitions that you start no war with America, the USSR, or any other nation without Axis Aproval, also, we offer these post war borders, Korea and Siam are still independat allies.(Talk) 16:24, September 20, 2012 (UTC)



I accept terms for Burma, but the Dutch East Indies will be allowed to vote on what it bcomes. Australia will be left alone. (Talk)



You got yourself a deal. How does this map look to you? In the Russian Far East, there will a consulate state. There will be three consuls. One appointed by Japan, one by America, and one elected by the people. If you attack the USSR, you will get all of Manchuria. If you help me convince Hitler (just talk to Imperium Guy) that he should attack the Soviets, we will be the two happiest nations on Earth, and the Cold War will be America vs. Japan vs. Germany. Sound good? Thought so.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:39, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

we accpet your teritorial demands in Asia in return for you joining the Axis. Dean (Talk) 16:19, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Principia Moderni
In the game I have invaded Manchuria as Korea. I ask you, as a Buddhist nation to another, to sit out the war. Manchuria belonged to Korea originally, too. Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 13:38, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, here is a map of what I will be willing to share. the v. light green is yours, the gold is mine. I would also require your aid in evetually crushing Tibet and capturing hindu territory. What I offer is a lot, I hope you agree! :D Imp (Say Hi?!)15:53, October 13, 2012 (UTC) Hey man, can we make an alliance, i can help you in your battles, iam just looking for a little expansion, but you can have all the territorios of the Majapahit, he is no longer playing, and i can help you, and i hope you can helme back in my battles. We can define our territories, what do you say? Tipakay (talk) 22:06, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

hey would you like to play this new map game of mine http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Arabian_Failure_(Map_Game)#Asia Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:59, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm now playing Avare. I have asked on the EATSP page to join, and I hope you accept. :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:25, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

America and Turkey are in league to use mod events to hijack the Middle East so they can split it between them selves. . The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:53, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
Sure I'd be glad to help out as best I can. :]

Some time down the road (and once you have the Oriental Time-line reach around present day) could I also write an alternate if it's okay? -Kogasa 2012年10月30日 07:56:04 (JST)

They're not puppets, they're just one single IP. I'll ask someone to ban them. Thanks for telling me that. I wouldn't have noticed.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:43, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

i would like to help to Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:49, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Hello. I like your articles. :3AltHistoryGeek (talk) 01:04, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

Would you mind joining my Map Game? :3 it needs more players.AltHistoryGeek (talk) 01:13, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

AvARe
The nuke war got retconned, so you should come back. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:51, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Do you want to join Carpe Diem, Carpe Mundum Revived (Map Game) Warman555

ADP:my view
i think that the POD are quite good, though i would probably choosen something that would directly avoid the need of expansion westward from europe like Constantinople lasting,but the joan of arc early death, seem quite interesting as the fate of france was on her hands in those moments, and a japanese korea is not new but good as will give a possibility of further conflict between japanese and Chinese and that japan comes out of shadows from the europeans view earlier, take in consideration that i have not read it all, and that i barely scratch the surface as i haven't  Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:47, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

i like the Greeks regaining their glory from the russians, but my question would be as an empire or Kingdom and centered in Constantinople or athens, as for the colonization and european timelines im going to help you Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:05, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

ok i like the greek result, but what is what you have in mind for europe, and the colonization process Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:18, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

i like the idea of Greater colombia from the french, and the aztecs survival, though i think brazil should be splitted between portuguese and spanish, and that france survivies yet loosing its north to england Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:37, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

france under the shadow of spain... thats sad but ok, eventually that will change,  and if you allow me iwill make a burgundian kingdom for a few hundred years from what remains of france to fall into france power again Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:42, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

i wish to help with the spelling but i have the same issues,also, i could change the burgundian kingdom into a Barely existent nation that lasted a few years to the Germans to eventually fall Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:08, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

i meant not burgundy as in PMII if not southern Burgundy in the Coast of Southern France near savoy Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:28, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

yes, maybe around the time of Napoleonic wars, it could be instead that france annexed corsica and then napolean tried to reform the frankish empire Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

we could make someone up and set it in the start of the XIX to do something similar to OTL napoleon Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:09, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

also,i was thinking in lobozits we should turn ourselves to make the turns, say you make the unpair numbers like 1809,1811,1813... and i the pair and their relevant events Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:36, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

New World
Maybe name it after the discoverer? Lordganon (talk) 06:41, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Map Game Wiki
hi, NK i would like to know if you would be willing to Come and Play in Map Game wiki any kind of Game you want, as i Want to Re activate the Map game wiki as an alternative way to the Althistory one, it would be also a good place to Make any sort of Map game project you might want Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:22, December 23, 2012 (UTC) http://mapgame.wikia.com/wiki/Map_Game_Wiki

ok then, in which part of the European timeline should i start Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:53, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

ah, btw i want to Post the Mod events of 1810 tonight post your turn and i'll post mine and the mod events, i want this game to begin going faster ok? Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:54, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

ok lets post in the talk page of A darker Place Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:02, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

sure i would join, yes, and let me see how things are on the timeline and i'll help you out Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:43, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

I'm interested in joining, and I'm ready to help. -Kogasa  2013年3月11日 23:05:54 (JST)

Sure thing. What do you want the Map Game to be called though? The same as the time-line? -Kogasa  2013年3月12日 01:10:52 (JST)

if it something about map games, i'll join, but like kogasa, how is it going to be called and what would i do to help you Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:10, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

i'll try to find a 1430 map during joan of arc era,which algorythm do we use, mine or one from here Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:33, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

mine could work for Pre 1700 or Pre industrial era's but its really complex, though idk you may disagree,so watch my algorythm and tell me what to fix for the Mapgame of Opportunity 2 (Map Game) My Algorythm is Here

i do,but i haven't use it in a while cause my pc got broken and i'm on super slow pc, however i have facebook,messenger and xfire, do you have any of those, and btw is the Algorythm Page still blank?

No thank you. I lack the time and effort to do more on here. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:28, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Mate, what did I tell you about that sig, lol?

And more importantly, what do you mean? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:45, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Of couse. Its allowed, and not against the rules at all, lol. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:48, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

I want you to try something Nk. On my talkpage (when you respond), have four of these: ~ after your point. Well, about the map game. If I could give you a piece of advice, would you please not start it up, please? It will die out very soon and will clutter the wiki (no offense). You should try to play PMII or Axis vs Allies. These are games which will not die out and you can try to play them. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:57, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. I see (about the ~).

Well, those games become implausible real quick though. :(

And no problem. When you post your point this time, press the button I have print screened for you. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:03, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

There we go!! Now whenever you respond on ppl's talkpages, remember to alwats press that button so they know it was you. ;D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:08, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Night of the Living Alternate History
I invite you to participate in the Night of the Living Alternate History. There are many nations still available, and we should be starting soon. Mscoree (talk) 17:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Zimmerman
Germany would never "negotiate" such a thing. Lordganon (talk) 10:51, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

While that might get a few less votes for war in Congress - which is doubtful, since the Note was not actually the primary concern - it would not mean it fails, or even comes close. Lordganon (talk) 09:43, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't even lead to more debate.

Simply put, there is no way, shape or form that the USA would not enter the war with the Germans going back to unrestricted sub warfare.

And no, them not doing so not a guarantee for either the Germans winning or the US not entering.

I would expect that the Germans would still lose steam, and just make the front mildly further west, and the US would merely enter the war in 1918. Their financial investment more or less means they would have to.

Lordganon (talk) 13:19, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Attacks like that on the Allied Navies would mean the U-boats end up destroyed.

French troops won't mutiny so long as the Germans are actually attacking. It's when the French were almost literally throwing their lives away that they mutinied - which is not the case if the Germans attack like that.

Lordganon (talk) 08:56, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

That is not near as possible as you'd think - with the Americans on the way, they would be less likely to surrender. Also, those same French and British troops managed to stop that German attack largely by themselves otl. It's effectiveness has long been overrated. Lordganon (talk) 11:44, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

More or less, unfortunately. About the only way to keep them out is to have something end the war earlier than when they joined otl. Lordganon (talk) 10:25, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed - though, fair warning, the Germans would have not interest whatsoever in seizing the ships. Lordganon (talk) 12:38, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Lordganon (talk) 05:11, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Natives and Disease
Let's put it this way - there was still large outbreaks among the native populations of Canada and the USA in the early 1900s.

There's even evidence today that indicates natives don't have as much resistance - you could argue that they still haven't got any "natural defenses."

The survivors of the plagues and flus are simply those who got lucky and by virtue of surviving, got some immunity.

So... back to the question.

Best answer, really, is that they won't. Somewhere in the area of 95% of the native population dies. The survivors get some sort of immunity from the dead viruses.

What are you needing it for? I could provide more or better info if I knew that.

Lordganon (talk) 08:17, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

France was not "dominant" in any way, shape, or form until the 1600s - well after the New World would be found. The Spanish Kingdoms were still weaker in the era in question than France, however.

The Spanish kingdoms - "Spain" did not exist for decades past Columbus - being occupied elsewhere does little. John Cabot would discover the Americas a couple years later for the English Crown. Little change overall from otl.

There is quite literally no way that refugees could cross an ocean like that.

After the diseases hit, there is going to be no native authorities left whatsoever in those areas. The Aztecs would be gone. Not that they were very there in the first place - a tribe ruling an "empire" of tributary states is going to fail, spectacularly, at some point.

Spanish are going to be interested in the Aztecs still. Gold, Religion, and Land, simply put.

They will die out. 95% deaths. There is no authorities left. I cannot begin to stress that enough. No slow changes, or anything.

Inoculations are centuries away. No effect whatsoever. For that matter, doing that to the native population, as shown in history, would give them a full-blown case of the disease and kill them.

Lordganon (talk) 10:58, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Of the two features with surviving Aztecs, one has a local disease arise that is like smallpox to the Europeans, but the natives are largely immune to - ASB in origin - and the other is entirely ASB.

Honestly, I don't think that there is any way that a state could survive in the area. Area is too valuable, and they would not have the time to recover.

All the ways I can think of for them to survive are either ASB themselves, or involve others being ASB.

Scrap it.

Lordganon (talk) 09:51, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

A "mixed" people means that they already lost.

One can argue that the Spanish conquest of the Aztecs otl was actually two attempts. Probably the best way to put it, really.

Impossible for the Aztecs to survive that long. If the Spanish do not do it, someone else will.

The introduction of European diseases into Mexico means that the Aztecs are done. Their empire is toast. No state can sustain such a loss in population. The resulting chaos is just easy pickings.

Lordganon (talk) 09:16, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

The Spanish would be far from the only power interested that could do so. Even overstretched, the English could. Besides that you have the Danes, Swedes, Italian states, Portuguese, Dutch, Norwegians, Scots, Turks, states in the Baltic, whatever is in France, and even Irish nobles could get into the mix if they though it worth it.

Yes, a series of smaller chiefdoms would arise in the aftermath. For any to really last, however, would be a few decades. They'd fall to Europeans fairly easily.

No way they would go north. Not only is that not possible, but the natives up there would tear them to shreds. Northern Mexico was at that point more or less tribal and desert. Further north than that is worse for hostile tribes. Took the Spanish decades to get up into these areas - in some spots, more than a century. So any extra knowledge would not help them.

Those tribes in southern Chile suffered the same death rates as everywhere else. The Spanish hit upon their resistance originally, and decided that it wasn't worth the effort, after the found there was nothing worth having beyond them, or in their lands. Same thing the Inca found out about these tribes.

Lordganon (talk) 05:12, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

French government is more or less irrelevant - even strong French nobles could conquer them.

Changing Spain like that would take at least a century.

You said nothing before about the Danes and Swedes. Not that it matters - they could still do it.

Turks tried to do it otl. In your world, they would have better odds. Would not stop Russia, either.

The Italian states, or Italian merchant families, could establish their own colonies. They tried it otl, even. Nor would they be under Spanish influence.

Lordganon (talk) 12:11, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Nk, they conquered Naples otl. That is not a change.

They would not have that much of the peninsula. France didn't even have any real involvement in the area after the war you reference. Spain simply cannot project power in the north.

Nothing north of the Pope would be under their "influence" except Milan itself.

English would not control the Dutch.

Doesn't really matter where English interests lie - gold kinda preempts that.

Lordganon (talk) 08:40, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

...You really need to look more into things, Nk.

It's basically impossible for the Spanish to do that.

You're misreading that thing with England and the Netherlands. Yes, they "offered" her the crown, but it wasn't really a crown. What the Dutch Parliament offered her was quite literally just that crown. No power, no say in things, nothing. They would have retained full power. There is no reality in which any monarch would agree to such terms, especially considering it means war with Spain. Nor is there one where the offer would have been different.

Lordganon (talk) 09:10, June 20, 2013 (UTC)