Talk:Axis vs Allies: Reborn (Map Game)

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict. Goes by capital city.
 * At the war: 5
 * Next to the war: 4
 * Close to the war: 3
 * Far from the war: 2
 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Home is island: Defenders +4, attackers -4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3
 * Every nation nonmilitarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 2
 * Side with greater population: 3
 * Side with greater industry: 3
 * "Big Cheese" Advantage (USA, Soviet Union, UK, Japan, Germany for now):+4

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * Religious: 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3

"Special" Status
In many points in history, a revolution (Hitler, Napoleon) has led to massive military successes at first. However, such revolutions have also led to massive failures (Mussolini, the South in Amer. Civil War). If a revolution has taken place in your nation in the past 7 years into an autocratic dictatorship, you are eligible for a bonus in military. If all of the above, +10.
 * If revolution to autocratic dictatorship in past 7 years.
 * If you get 6 or more in chance.

Morale

 * Recent military defeats (battles): -2
 * Extermination of conquered peoples: -3
 * Motive is less than 6: -1

Nuclear weapons

 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on capital city: +10 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +2 per additional nuke for belligerent, -2 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on major city: +7 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +1.5 per additional nuke for belligerent, -1.5 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on minor city: +5 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +1 per additional nuke for belligerent, -1 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Tactical nuclear weapon use: +5 for first tactical nuke, +.5 per additional nuke.
 * Nuclear weapon use for belligerent: -5 morale this turn and next turn.
 * Nuclear weapon use for defendant: -2.5 morale this turn only.

Economic situation

 * Great economy: +5
 * Fair economy: +3
 * Average economy: +1
 * Poor economy: -3
 * Crashing economy: -5

Chance
Take the UTC time at that moment. (ie 21:32). Then, multiply those numbers. Any zeros count as one. Then take the declaring user's edit count. Then divide the UTC number by the edit count. Multiply that number by pi Take the fifth digit in the number, and there's your chance. Then, for the opponent, take the eighth number. And there you go!
 * 2*1*3*2= 8
 * ie 2831.
 * 8/2831= 0.00282585658
 * 0.00282585658*pi= 0.00887318966
 * 7
 * 8

Plausibility Points
Take the difference between the user with more plausibility points and multiply it by 1.5. That number is added to their score. If it is against a non-user nation, the user automatically receives a +2.

Result
The winner will get to take the city(ies) they were targeting. If the winner wins by more than 1.5x the score, they will take 4 cities. If they win any number less, they will take 2 cities. If the user wins by more than 2x the score, 8 cities will be taken. If the user wins by more than 4x the score, the nation will capitulate.

Changes from Axis vs Allies: Revolutions

 * Added mod rules section
 * Added regulations to mapmaking
 * Added Plausibility Points
 * Added inactivity penalty.
 * Added proxies.
 * Changed start time to 22:00:00 UTC.

Patch 1

 * Added plausibility points to War Algorithm.
 * User will be penalized 1 point from their Plausibility Points if the miss a day without any notice.

Patch 2

 * Removed penalty for inactivity in Plausibility Points.

Patch 3

 * Removed Plausibility Points.
 * Removed Plausibility Points from algorithm.

Patch 4

 * Removed the algorithm.

Patch 5

 * The algorithm has been reinstated with major changes.

Discussion
Thanks for dealing with the last game's problems with 'power gameing' and mod bias.The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:28, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

who was the biased mod? Sine dei gloriem (talk) 21:29, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Zaire vs S. Africa was a bit ASB on the previous game as the mod and the player power-gamed and hyper-conquered. Don't worry, Sine dei gloriem, since both you and Pitakang are not the fellows I was talking about. What ever, let's forget about the other game and start anew on this one. The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:38, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

ok. and yeah i remember zaire's player aswell made a Turkish empire aswell, lets hope this doesnt happen here Sine dei gloriem (talk) 21:40, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

I'm still going to build my empire. If Japan, Germany, Britian, and Italy can do it, I see no reason I can't. Of course it will be more plausible. I'm gonna build up to it like the Japanese, come up with some lousy excuse of friendship or something, and then go in for the kill. The East Asian Africaghdfghdfghdfghdfghdfn Co-Prosperity Sphere. Unless, you have a problem with that... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:20, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

That's OK.The River Nile-2 (talk) 23:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

"Come up with some lousy excuse of friendship or something" The quote of the week

Thanks
Thanks, PitaKing, for fixing my flag (Francoist Spain), since I didn't know how to fix it. I really appreciate it. Stewdio333 (talk) 21:23, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

No problem! Although it's Pita Kang, not King, lol. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:36, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

I actually misread your name as PitaKing for the longest time. The first time I saw your name, I thought 'I like pita bread too'. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 23:22, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

^^Exactly what I thought. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:28, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Plausibility Points
Interesting concept. Will they be used in war algorithms? ChrisL123 (talk) 23:58, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yup. Just a thought. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:13, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

How are these going to work? I'm asking because there's really nothing on the main page... Also, there was no "powergaming" by me or Scraw on the last game. Evidently, I(and obviously Scraw) do not tolerate implausibility. The Turkish Empire was an example and so was the near-miss we had with that implausible African Empire. I hope the mods in this game are as much anti-implasogasm as I am. Though, I'm not worried since Scraw is still there,AP (talk) 02:17, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Still you ignore the tons of information I and others gave you (funny thing is I and two other players told you you were wrong). Regardless, so long as your willing to read it and own up to the proof, then we'll be fine. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:22, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

I agree about limiting hyper-expatiation and hyper conquest.The River Nile-2 (talk) 16:03, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Mongolia
Mongolia was under heavy Soviet influence throughout its history, so can it be coloured in the USSR colour like Manchuria is with Japan?

And BTW, can we control our puppet states or does it go under the "one country per player" rule? Fed (talk) 16:49, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

It's been coloured in.The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:38, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Fed (talk) 21:40, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Algorimth (Or Whatever Like That) and something else
I am one of the final two players of Axis vs Allies Revised, the only Map Game of the Axis vs. Allies series that have finished by date. I am willing to tell what I am feeling as not good in this map game: Laptop_Zombie 05:01, January 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I do not like the characteristic of Chances in the Algorimth calculated in such a random way. I myself don't like the idea of Algorimth, believing this was one of the reasons map game can go too difficult to understand and so challenge people like me to understand these map games. This is one of the reasons why I left the position of Denmark in AvA Revolutions. Too complicated.
 * 2) Rather than having quite a random thing for nukes, it would be better to force players to explain all their scientific researches out in the game, so mods could determine who can get nukes first. And being Big Cheese doesn't have any meaning in nukes, it's about science, not military or population, about its discovery.
 * 3) Using proxies? Ridiculous. ALL UNCHOSEN NATIONS SHOULD BE GOVERNED BY MODS, or they should be incorporated as colony, autonomous regions or associated states.
 * 4) Signature rules away? Only 3 tiles please.

I played as Egypt in Axis vs Allies Revised and was the 3rd nation. I loved Axis vs Allies Revised.The River Nile-2 (talk)

So no algorithm, because that decides alot for me The old baby (talk) 11:13, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

I doesn't mean Denmark in Congress of Vienna, I mean in AvA Revolutions I was the player of Denmark, then I left. Laptop_Zombie 12:53, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

That has nothing to do with what i asked.

I agree with Laptop and River Nile, algorithms make the game too complicated, but you still must be plausible, as I took a similar amount of time in invading the part of China I did as otl, being a little faster by using Chemical weapons instead of bio weapons

I personally believe the algorythm is necessary for wars; I mean, otherwise we'll eventually end up with Finland conquering the world. It happened in most early map games for a reason.

Big Cheese does matter for nukes. Maybe not for nuclear research, but nukes also need a lot of resources and military power, something, say, Bhutan will not have.

And how come no proxies? Proxies were extremely important in this age of history. Fed (talk) 00:01, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Axis vs Allies: Revised did better than any other Axis vs Allies game, and it had no algorithm for computers. If we do get a finland take over  the world type player, we just ban him for implausibility, but have that said we should still have an algorithm for player vs player wars.The old baby (talk) 00:10, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well, proxy was actually invaded all the time, and it became more difficult to make maps. In AvA Revised, all the proxies were cleaned not long after, and all nations annexed their proxy, starting with USSR - Kurdistan. Interestingly, the CoA was formed by Russia (OTL Soviet Union), China and Hindustan (OTL India) and all their colonies and proxies fully integrated. Laptop_Zombie 01:29, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Hurrar, I'm joining the Game! (and may pull out soon though)

@The old baby: In your very first post in this section, do you mean that decides a lot for your map game (Napoleonic Europe Revised!) huh? Laptop_Zombie 13:31, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Boring
Is this game going boring?

A new War Algorithm idea?



 * I might have an idea?!


 * State of Economy: +10 (Florishing), +7.5 (Okay), +5 (Mild), +2.5 (Poor), 0 (Non-existent or colapsing)
 * Many or major defences and fortified places: + 10
 * War Weariness: -5 Every turn while in war, after the first turn
 * Technology: 0-10; with 0 being the worst, 5 being normal and 10 being ahead of time.
 * Knowledge of landscape: +20 for in one's homeland, + 10 for warring in an adjacent nation, -1 for low knowledge of an non-adjacent lands which are on you continent, -10 for no knowledge of a distant realm that is not even on your continent.
 * Morale: -10 In face of larger army, - 20 for completely surrounded, +5 for in face of a smaller army, +10 for surrounding enemy
 * Storming on to a coastline from the sea or on to an island, the attacker - 10 and defender + gains 10.
 * Storming in to a desert or jungle the, attacker - 10 and + defender gains 10.
 * Nuclear war gives the atomic user +10 and defnder- 10 for Strategic arms or +5 and -5 for tactical arms. +1 to the attacker and -1 to the defender if  the capial is hit
 * Every nation militarily helping with their side= +1
 * Religious, ethnic and cultural war motives = + 5 to the attacker.
 * Economic war motives = + 2 to the attacker.
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 defender/-3 attacker (for exsampel crossing the Kalahari desert)
 * Armed exspantion in large extremism climates like Greenland, Niger, Nepal and Amazonia will also be very slow due to lodgistic and climate problems for any wood-be invader. In this case the defender gets an advantage of +5 and the attacker gets a disadvantage of -6
 * Life or death = + 10 to the nation who is fearing being wiped from history.
 * Strength: # of troops divided by a factor of 10,000 (ie, 1,000,000 =100 pints)
 * Luck and weather conditions- 0-10 on Random Dot Org (to be used only as a tie breaker)
 * Add the totals up and find the biggest total. The biggest wins.
 * Do this for every turn your warring in.
 * The River Nile-2 (talk) 16:39, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh lord, I hate these types of algorithms...

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 19:22, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

OKThe River Nile-2 (talk)

Japan
economy:-7

Tech: 6.5

weariness -4

Knowledge of landscape: +10

Morale:+5

Nation help= +1( Korea)

coastline -0( remember, Manchuria)

Economic war motives +2

troop Number: 1,750,000, so +175 pts

total:203

China
economy: +5

Defenses +10

tech: +5

weariness: -4

morale: -10

nation help +1

Life or death: +10

numbers: 1,500,000, so 150.

total: 187

tell me if i did that wrong. The old baby (talk) 20:34, January 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * It is OK, the algorithmic is correct, but I think we are supposed to use this other one [].The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:01, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well that sucks, this one is faster and easier.The old baby (talk) 22:17, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:57, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Stop being so lazy. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:04, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not lazy, I have a byciacl!The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:04, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Look. No offense, but you could at least spell "bicycle" correctly. Stewdio333 (talk) 10:59, January 17, 2013(UTC)
 * Jpan had a chrashing ecomany so ecomany is -7 for japan Warman555

Algorithm
After a couple players complained about the complicated algorithm, I have decided to remove the algorithm for the game in Patch 4. They can, however come back in Patch X. Feedback, please! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:35, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. The algorithm is one of the few things that keeps the game a bit away from becoming ASB. It is essential to any map game and I vote for its return. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:31, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree as well. The algorithm has worked (for the most part) in all games and removing it would be a huge mistake. Plus, the people who are complaining are just to lazy to do math. Enclavehunter (talk) 22:04, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I am in multiple map games that have algorithms, some that don't, and a life outside the computer! I've never liked the Axis vs Allies algorithm anyway. The old baby (talk) 22:08, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm afraid there's nothing we can do about that.

Also, I think we should get rid of the "Big Cheese" thing, as the Big Cheese could always change over time so radically that the benefit would be useless.

I agree about ending the Big Cheese stuff.The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:01, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:16, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I left after 3 turns of things I've complained. Thanks for nice idea, but I suppose I will never join any Axis vs Allies map game from now. Laptop_Zombie 14:28, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

It's getting stultified, this argument is getting me down.The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:01, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Time to vote. Mods only, and people in the Algorithm League. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 04:13, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Keep the algorithm

 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 04:13, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I've changed the algorithm to match World War II a bit better. Instead of taking x percent of the defendant's land, we go by cities. For example, lets say France invades Germany and takes Franfurt or the Ruhr area. If they win by a lot (which is to determined), they get x number of cities. Still working on it. -Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 14:19, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Never saw anything wrong with it in the first place too be honest. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 21:41, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Germany
Me no understand what happened. Italy turning into a democracy: What the hell just happened? Italy riding the moral high horse and telling Germany to back out... Lulz. Also, by the way, Italy had one of the worst armies in Europe at that time. Have fun trying to take over Germany. Also, Austria wanted to join with Germany. And, Italy with blitzkreig? Even more lulz.

Sweden invading Germany: WTF!!?! Sweden: Ally of Germany. Has been and will be. And Sweden blockading Germany coast... if it were Britain I would understand. Sweden??!?!

Anyways, whatever.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 14:36, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, you guys didn't support Czechoslovakia before the invasion so I already took Czechoslovakia as in OTL. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 14:37, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Also, should the special status last the whole war? My inclination is that it should, since that was what happened in OTL. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 15:00, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sweden had a popular revolt and a change in Parliament and King.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:04, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Germany (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC +8), Soviet Union (M, BC + 7), Ethiopia (M +3) = +18
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5 (Germany had a great economy before World War II)
 * Chance: +6
 * 09:46
 * 9*4*6= 216
 * 216/7758= 0.02784222737
 * 0.02784222737*pi= 0.08746893699
 * Total: 56

Netherlands (Defendant)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Netherlands (L+4), Britain (M, BC+7), France (M+3), Italy (M+3), Sweden (M+3), Greece (M+3) = +23
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +3
 * Total: 47

Result

 * 1939.5: Narrow German victory. Germany takes Apeeldorn and Almere, closing in on Amsterdam.
 * 1940: Decisive Germany victory. Germany takes Amsterdam, forcing the capitulation of the Netherlands.

Discussion
Wait...algorimth was removed in Patch 4!Laptop_Zombie 15:03, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

It was reinstated due to a majority mod vote. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 17:20, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Greece is supporting France/Sweden/Italy JSYK. Airlinesguy (talk) 23:30, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

United States

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 1 - 3 = 0
 * Strength: 13
 * Motive: 5 - 1 = 4
 * Economy: 5
 * Chance: 3 (I did do the math, but didn't feel like typing it all down).
 * Total: 27

Mexico

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 0 (at the moment)
 * Motive: 10
 * Economy: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Total: 29

Result

 * Narrow victory by the Mexico. No territory taken or lost.

Mexico

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical: 1
 * Strength: 14
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -3
 * Status: 10
 * Economy: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 41

Belize

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 2
 * Strength: 7
 * Motive: 10
 * Economy: 1
 * Chance: 5
 * Plausibility: 3
 * Total:  33

Outcome
Mexico takes half of Belize, up to Belize City.

Germany (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC +8), Soviet Union (M, BC + 7), Ethiopia (M +3), Sweden (S +2) = +20
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +1
 * 15:09
 * 1*5*1*9= 45
 * 45/7802= 0.00576775185
 * 0.00576775185*pi= 0.01811992686
 * 0.01811992686
 * Total: 46

Belgium (Defendant)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Belgium (L+4), Britain (M, BC+7), France (M+3), Italy (M+3), Greece (M+3) = +20
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +2
 * Total: 42

Result
1941: Decisive German victory. Germany takes Belgium.

Germany (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC +8), Soviet Union (M, BC + 7), Sweden (S +2) = +17
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +8
 * 15:17
 * 1*5*1*7= 35
 * 35/7804= 0.00448487954
 * 0.00448487954*pi= 0.01408966464
 * 0.0140’’’8’’’96’’’6’’’464
 * Total: 51

Poland (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Poland (L+4), Britain (M, BC+7), France (M+3) = +14
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +6
 * Total: 42

Result
1941: Decisive German victory. Germany takes half of Poland.

Spanish Conquest of Gibraltar
I'm pretty sure this needs an algorithm right. (By the way, it's only one day long)

Alright, this is my first algorithm, so here goes nothing. (Anyone's free to see if it works)

Spain (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Spain (L +4), Germany (S, BC +6), Sweden (S +2) = +13
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +5 (Political)
 * Special: +10
 * Morale: -1
 * Economy: +3
 * Chance: +6
 * 08:47
 * 1*8*4*7= 224
 * 224/805= 0.27826086956
 * Total: 42

Gibraltar (Great Britain) (Defendant)

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Great Britain (L, BC +7)= +7
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Motive: +10 (Life or Death)
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +6
 * Total: 33

Result
1941.5: Spain succeeds in taking over Gibraltar in the sneak attack, prepares for the British declaration of war on Spain.

Discussion
How is this for my first algorithm, any complaints? Stewdio333 (talk) 21:04, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, all fine. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:19, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Map update
Is my new map cannon?, I've lost track of things outside of Australasia and a update was needed. Oh, and it's not pixelated of fuzzy, I have avoided that at least.The River Nile-2 (talk) 00:27, January 24, 2013 (UTC)





Ethiopia (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L +4), Germany (M, BC +8), Soviet Union (M, BC + 7), Finland (S +2) = +21
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: 0
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +1


 * 22:54
 * 2*2*5*4= 64
 * 64/7804= 0.0411840411840412
 * 0.0411840411840412*pi= 0.1293178893178893
 * 0.1293178893178893
 * Total: 44

Denmark (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Denmark (L +4), Britain (M, BC +7) = +11
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +8
 * Total: 41

Result
1941.5: Strategic Ethiopian victory. Ethiopia takes Aalborg and Esbjerg.

Discussion
I honestly don't know which algorithim we're using. So here. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 05:09, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, did you really just invade Denmark Denmark or something else belonging to Denmark?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 05:21, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

I concur, Ethiopia invading Denmark is like Brunei invading Canada.AP (talk) 05:26, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, Europe invades Europe and Africa invades Africa. End of story. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 05:38, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps you should read back I couple of turns. Japan and Italy aided Ethiopia is modernization, with Japan giving it loads of tech, and Italy giving it land. I send troops to China and Europe to support Japan and Germany, so I've got boots on the ground at both. And the difference between Ethiopia and Brunei is that Ethiopians outnumber the Danes four to one, and I've got more soldiers in Euorpe than Brunei had in its entire country at the time. Plus, my troops can actually fight the Danes since I've got the Germans behind me. I hate the bias. Why can't any African nation besides South Africa be taken as a threat, while one can literally spend decades modernizing and industrializing any country there and its still weak. Heck, this literally happens everywhere, and I'm not the only one. Stuff is going to turn me to drinking. -_- Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:06, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

A South African invasion of Denmark would be retconned too. You and Brunei are in the same boat: a third world one full of holes and rapidly sinking. You can fill up those holes and make a decent nation, but no superpower if that's what you're shooting for (and I'm pretty sure you are, please let me know if i'm wrong). If you can invade Denmark then why didn't the Ottomans invade the US in WWI? Because they had bigger fish to fry at home--Russia the Allies. Invade British Somaliland and if you can shoot for British holdings in Arabia.AP (talk) 07:05, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Fine. But the expanation makes little sense to me as I just had two of the most powerful nations in the world propping me up, but nevermind then if that's what you want. And yes I am shooting for superpower. I plan to follow Japan's old "Enrich the Country, Strengthen the Army" program too (Remember, Japan was a third world nation too). Anyway I'll stick with Africa then. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:06, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

We absolutely don't care. You are not going to be a leader in this war. All you can do is send men and guns. Jeez, this sounds like a common sense thing. Africa is never invading Europe, but Africa can help Europe. See the difference?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein!

Hey, what a coinkydink. I don't either! :D Shame. Cause if you read the last five turns, you'd see that I already stated that was the original purpose of my soldiers being the in first place. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 19:23, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Point is, you're writing as if you're a leader.

"Ethiopian forces march on Denmark." implies that you are the leader. Which you are not and never will be. Write something like this:

"The Ethiopian troops abroad continue to help the Europeans in their efforts of conquest."

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 19:28, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Your PR skills are lacking. Perhaps if you were to ask nicely and without the tone, I'd be happy to do as you say. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 19:38, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps if you were less insolent to figuresof authority, I would. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 19:42, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

There we go. Same proclaimed authority that killed the other game. You mod a map game, and act as if you own the world. This is a theme that I have found on almost every other map game I've since you own. AP at least acts like a sensable moderator. You however are just terrible. Why you even tried to have AP removed as a mod on PMII was an act I found pitiful. At least he'll say why an act was implausible instead of slam people with "Implausogasm". Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:05, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry Viva but this is so implausible I don't even know where to start... Sure, you can invade Denmark (which I already did, btw), but you can't suppport your troops there with supplies or reinforcements. It's all about logistics. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:09, January 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll address you instead. The matter of logistics was never an issue that I found difficult at all. I forsaw the issue as I am clearly capable of understanding the issues with an African nation sending troops to a European nation. I expanded the navy with the goal that it would be able to support you in combat. Also, I also expected Germany to assist in the logistical field since you control most of Europe. Thus, that was a temporary matter that I would address with the expansion of the navy and the support of my allies. And I never implied that I was a leader in the conflict, but a supporting, like Canada or India. Plus, given the fact that I already recieved the training and technology from Italy and Japan, I never saw in issue as to why Ethiopia wasn't allowed to take part in the fighting in Europe. India and Austraila did, why not closer Ethiopia? Sorry for any confusion. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:20, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Quote on quote:
 * "Africa can help Europe."
 * You never implied that you were a leader in the conflict?
 * "Ethiopia (L +4)"
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:29, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because I lead the invasion of Denmark, not the war. I'm pretty sure the rules say whoever leads the fight get the "L +4". Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:34, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, and you leading the fight is implausible. For hell's sake, it's 1940, not 2020. Africa is not leading an invasion into Europe. (Unless it's Morocco and Spain or Libya and Italy or something.) [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:50, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know what, I done and I'm putting a stop to this right now. I tired of fighting you. I just want to play. I'm sorry for the insults so can we just go back to the game? I'll make Ethiopia a silent participent and nothing more if it'll stop these long-winded arguments. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 21:09, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Took the words right out of my mouth.

And for the record, we explained what we meant to you. (AP and I.)

"All you can do is send men and guns...Africa is never invading Europe, but Africa can help Europe." ~ Me

Unless you did not read that (and if you didn't, I'm sure you are now), you have been explained to.

"I concur, Ethiopia invading Denmark is like Brunei invading Canada." ~ AP

"...Europe invades Europe and Africa invades Africa." ~ Me

Thrice.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:12, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Congragulations. You can count. So can I. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:20, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Dude just invade the Middle East and take over the oil supply... :) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:58, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Actually I think only going as far as Yemen would work. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:01, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Italy

 * Location: +3 (close to the war)


 * Tactical Advantage: +1


 * Strength: Italy (L+4)= +4
 * Greater economy: +3
 * Greater population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral, liberate ethnic Italians)


 * Morale: +0
 * Special Status: +10
 * Economic Situation: +1 (Average Economy)


 * Chance: +8
 * 15:12
 * 1*5*1*2= 10
 * 10/4698= 0.00212856534
 * 0.00212856534*pi= 0.00668708523
 * 0.00668708523
 * Total: 32

Yugoslavia

 * Location: +5 (At the War)


 * Tactical Advantage: +2


 * Strength: Yugoslavia (L+4)= +4


 * Motive: +10


 * Morale:+0


 * Economic Situation:-3


 * Chance: +8
 * Total: 28

Result
Italy crushes Yugoslavia and takes a part of Yugoslavia. The war continues.

Swedish Conques of Norway
Sweden (Belligerent)
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Sweden (L, +4), Soviet Union (M, BC + 7), Germany (M, BC +7), Finland (S +2) = +20
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: (Can I do an RNG? My edit count skyrocketed over what it was when the war started.) 5
 * Total: 59

Norway (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Norway (L+4), Britain (M, BC+7), France (S+3) = +13
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +4
 * Total: 39

Result
1942: Swedish victory: Sweden seizes Northern Norway and the southeastern regions. Norway reduced to a stub, prime for continued invasion.

Germany (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC +8), Soviet Union (S, BC + 6), Ethiopia (S +2), Sweden (S +2) = +18
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +5
 * 18:03
 * 1*8*1*3= 24
 * 24/7806= 0.00307455803
 * 0.00307455803*pi= 0.00965900892
 * 0.00965900892
 * Total: 51

France(Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: France (L+4), Britain (M, BC+7) = +11
 * Greater population: +3
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: -2 (Military defeats in the Low Countries)
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +0
 * Total: 34

Result
Germany crushes French resistance and rolls into Paris. France capitulates (as in OTL.) Vichy France is set up as a puppet government while Northern France is put into German occupation.

Ethiopia (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4 (Next to War - Rules say so)
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (Goes by capital, and Sana'a not in the Arabian Desert)
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L +4)
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +3 (Economical)
 * Special Status: 0
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Plausibility Points: +2 (Against non-user state)
 * Chance: +4
 * 17:04
 * 1*7*0*4= 21
 * 21/1576= 0.0133248730964467
 * 0.0133248730964467*pi= 0.0418401015228426
 * 0.0418401015228426
 * Total: 29

North Yemen (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (See previous)
 * Strength: North Yemen (L +4)
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: -1 (North Yemen was dirt poor and fractured before the oil, and is still dirt poor and fractured with it today)
 * Chance: +1
 * Total: 21

Result
Ethiopian victory. Half of North Yemen conquered.

Japan

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Japan (L, BC +7), Ethiopia (M +3)
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 6
 * Morale: 0
 * Econimic situation: +5
 * Chance: 1
 * 1*4*2*3=24
 * 24/2134=0.01125
 * 3.14=0.0353139643861293
 * Total: 30

China

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical: +2
 * Strength: China (L +4), India (M +3)
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: +1
 * Chance: +6
 * Total: 32

Result
Japan is pushed back a out of Shanghai to status ante que bellum (of this attack)

Discussion
Japan definitely does not have a greater population than China lol... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 17:26, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Germany (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC +8), Soviet Union (S, BC + 6), Ethiopia (S +2), Sweden (S +2) = +18
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +6 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +1
 * 12:32
 * 1*2*3*2= 12
 * 12/7825= 0.00153354632
 * 0.00153354632*pi= 0.00481777787
 * 0.00481777787
 * Total: 50

Italy (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Italy (L+4)= +4
 * Motive: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +3
 * Chance: +7
 * Total: 31

Result
Germany crushes Italian resistance and rolls over the Alps into Northern Italy. German troops pull out after their point is made.

Ethiopia (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L +4), Germany (M, BC +7), Japan (S, BC + 6) = +16
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +5 (Political)
 * Special Status: +0
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +5
 * 12:30
 * 1*2*3*0= 6
 * 6/1589= 0.0037759597230963
 * 0.0037759597230963*pi= 0.0118565135305223
 * 0.0118565135305223
 * Total: 39

Anglo-Egyptian Sudan (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Britain (L+4), United States (S, BC +5) = +9
 * Motive: +5
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +1
 * Total: 28

Result
Ethiopian forces march over Khartoum and take most of Sudan.

Germany (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC+8), Ethiopia (S+2), Portugal (M+3), Romania (M+3), Hungary (MV+2), Bulgaria (M+3), Vichy France (M+3), Spain (M+3), Finland (M+3) = +30
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +5 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +0
 * 15:01
 * 1*5*1*1= 5
 * 5/7825= 0.00063897763
 * 0.00063897763*pi= 0.00200740744
 * 0.00200740744
 * Total: 61

Sweden (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Sweden (L+4), Britain (M, BC +7), Norway (MV, +2), Estonia (MV, +2), Latvia (MV, +2), Lithuania (MV, +2), USA (M, BC +7) = +32
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +0
 * Total: 57

Result
This is really close...

Discussion
You forget the Allies and Swedish vassals. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:07, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Germany still crushes. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:08, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

18 is less than half of 50 and almost a fourth of 68. I foresee a stalemate.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:15, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Why is economy only +3? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:06, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Japan
Location: 3

Advantage: 1

Strength: Military help:0, nonmilitary help: 1(Ethiopia) Greater pop: 3, Greater industry:3 Big Cheese:4

Motive: 6

morale:-2

Econimic situation: 3

Chance:

13:56-1*3*5*6=90

90/2136=0.04213483

3.14=0.13230337 Chance: 3

total: 25

French indochina
Location: 5

advantage:2

Strength: military: 1(Mainland france is being invaded, they cant to nothing halfway around the world, but Britain), nonmilitary: 0

Motive:10

Morale:0

Economic situation: -5(Poor, and France is bing invaded)

Chance 3

Total: 16

Result
Japan storms through Northern French Indochina, and captures Hanoi, A lot of Northern indochina is taken..

Ethiopia (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L +4), Germany (M, BC +7), Japan (S, BC + 6) = +16
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +5 (Political)
 * Special Status: +0
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +2
 * 16:13
 * 1*6*1*3= 18
 * 18/1591= 0.011313639220616
 * 0.011313639220616*pi= 0.0355248271527341
 * 0.0355248271527341
 * Plausibility Points: 0
 * Total: 36

Anglo-Egyptian Sudan (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Britain (L+4), United States (S, BC +5) = +9
 * Motive: +5
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +2
 * Plausibility Points: +1
 * Total: 30

Result
Ethiopian forces take a considerable porting of land in southern Sudan.

United States

 * Location: 3 (2 Would be Europe)
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: USA (LBC8), UK (MBC7), Sweden (S2), Swedish vassals (4*S2=8) = 25
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -3
 * Economy: 3
 * Plausibility Points: 1.5
 * Chance: 5
 * UTC TIME: 02:14
 * 1 x 2 x 1 x 4 = 8
 * User Edit Count:6,096
 * 8/6,096*pi (you are supposed to use the pi button) = 0.041252582 (That was 6th, not fifth)
 * Total: 40.5

Mexico
Total: 31
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: Mexico (L4), Belize (MV2), Germany (MBC7), Portugal (M3), Spain(M3) (only plausible helpers here) = 19
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -3
 * Economy: 3 ( Mexico had a fairly well economy, and the recession barely affected them)
 * Chance: 2

Outcome
The US of A begins an incursion along border territories.

Discussion
how does Sweden and the UK send aid tot he USA when thee a bit occupied in Europe? Its like Germany sending aid to Japan after D-Day, it aint gonna hapen.

~ Dean

Then how does Germany help Mexico? Eh?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 03:16, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Japan

 * LOcation 3
 * Tactical:1
 * Strength: Military help: 1, Nonmilitary help: 1Greater pop, 3, Greater Industry: 3, Big Cheese:4
 * Motive: 6
 * Special Revolution+ Chance higher than 6:+10
 * morale:0
 * Economy: 3
 * Chance: 18:45 1*8*4*5: 160
 * 160/2140=0.07476636
 * 3.14=0.23476636
 * total: 41

French Indochina

 * location: 5
 * Tactical: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * motive 10
 * morale -2
 * Economy: -5
 * Chance: 3
 * total:13

Result
Japan steamrols thro Indochina, taking the country.

Discussion

Has anyone noticed...
That this game has frankly become an implausofest? There are multiple things wrong with it. A few that I can name are:

Germany allying with Ethiopia: You've got to be kidding me. HItler abhorred Africans and would never lower himself to the level of allying with an African nation.

The fact that Germany just "seized" Egypt-- come on I think Germany is overplaying their capabilities a little too much. They can't even reach Egypt with Sweden and the UK in possession of the G-I-UK Line.

Ethiopia in general: Sending thousands even millions of troops to Japan, Europe, and their own home in East Africa all while claiming that they have a "great economy" which they are (very)far from.

All of these nations randomly switching sides: Yes, it happened in OTL but with due reason. In this game, the players do it to save their own skin and join the Axis(with the exception of Sweden and the USSR)

AP (talk) 21:46, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Acctuaally I just left the Axis because apart from Ethiopia Theyve been Ignoring Me, In hopes of making our own triparte pact with Sweden and the USSR. Dose not mean Im joining the Allies

~ Old Baby.

Germany allying with Ethiopia: You've got to be kidding me. HItler abhorred Africans and would never lower himself to the level of allying with an African nation. The fact that Germany just "seized" Egypt-- come on I think Germany is overplaying their capabilities a little too much. They can't even reach Egypt with Sweden and the UK in possession of the G-I-UK Line. Ethiopia in general: Sending thousands even millions of troops to Japan, Europe, and their own home in East Africa all while claiming that they have a "great economy" which they are (very)far from. All of these nations randomly switching sides: Yes, it happened in OTL but with due reason. In this game, the players do it to save their own skin and join the Axis(with the exception of Sweden and the USSR)
 * Alliance of convenience. Besides, Hitler abhorred Asians as well, but he allied with the Japanese.
 * Wut? The GIUK line is Greenland-Ireland-UK. I took it through Italian ports...and it happened in OTL anyways.
 * Kind of agree with, although they didn't sent "millions" of troops to Japan and Europe. They sent none to Europe, in fact, and to Japan they sent a couple thousand soldiers. Hardly a real help to Japanese troops.
 * What players? I suppose Italy kind of, but they did do that in OTL. I can't think of any other side... please explain further.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:52, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Japan was more strategic. He pushed it a bit when he allied to them, but an African alliance? If that's not over the edge then i dont know what is. When did the Germans seize Egypt in OTL? You better stop Ethiopia's player now because he will vigorously oppose independence movements, etc by claiming a bunch of crap is evidence and then he'll claim that he is a superpower. Greece randomly switched sides, and other nations i can't think of right now.AP (talk) 22:00, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I had my doubts, so i checked. Egypt was never once occupied by Germany. This latest conquest of the Near East is incredibly implausible and it shocks me that you're doing this Pita.AP (talk) 22:08, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Adolf Hitler sent his army to North Africa starting in February 1941 (see Operation Sonnenblume). Nazi Germany's General Erwin Rommel's Deutsches Afrikakorps coming from victories at Tobruk in Libya, and in a classic blitzkrieg, comprehensively outfought British forces. Within weeks the British had been pushed back into Egypt. Rommel's offensive was eventually stopped at the small railway halt of El Alamein, just 150 miles from Cairo. In July 1942 the First Battle of El Alamein was lost by Rommel because he was suffering from the eternal curse of the desert war, long supply lines. The British, with their backs against the wall, were very close to their supplies, and had fresh troops on hand. In early September 1942 Rommel tried again to break through the British lines during the Battle of Alam Halfa. He was decisively stopped by the newly arrived British commander, Lieutenant General Bernard Montgomery. With British forces from Malta interdicting his supplies at sea, and the massive distances they had to cover in the desert, Rommel could not hold the El Alamein position forever. Still, it took a large set piece battle from late October to early November 1942, the Second Battle of El Alamein to defeat the Germans forcing them to retreat westwards towards Libya and Tunisia. The German's strategic goal had been to slice through Egypt, capture the Suez Canal, enter the British Mandate of Palestine, activate an Arab uprising against the British, and finally link up with German forces thrusting south from Southern Russia. The Vichy French forces who were the Nazi's allies, controlled Algeria to the west and Syria to the north of Palestine and were awaiting Nazi triumphs. But all this was foiled by Montgomery's victory over Rommel at El Alamein.

They did invade, they were just pushed back. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:12, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

You said Germany occupied Egypt, that's different from invading Egypt. Still there are no algorithms for any of those Middle East conquests... And this whole game is acting as if the Allies are a bunch of ragdolls being pushed around by Germany and friends. Seriously they have not won a single algorithm and that fact is further evidence that this game has gone asb.AP (talk) 22:17, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, to me, I've been really enjoying this game, and as Scraw said down below, that why does this have to be beta? It seems to be the most accurate alternate version of WWII I've seen yet on this site. Stewdio333 (talk) 22:27, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Wut Middle East conquests? Palestine I think was a no-brainer, and Syria used to be French but was turned over to Germany. Also, this game will NOT be reset :) This is the funnest map game I've ever played too. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:40, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yay! Anyways, I'm loving me this World War II. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:47, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals
The grayed out stuff on the maps are Germany's vassals. The black stuff are direct conquests. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:52, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll do a 2 tint for my clients to.The River Nile-2 (talk) 22:50, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Sweden (Aggressor)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Sweden (L+4), Britain (M, BC +7), Norway (MV, +2), Estonia (MV, +2), Latvia (MV, +2), Lithuania (MV, +2), USA (M, BC +7), USSR (M, BC +7) = +38
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +0
 * Total: 63

Finland

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Finland (L+4), Germany (M, BC+7), Denmark (MV+2), Netherlands (MV+2), Belgium (MV+2), Luxembourg (MV+2) = 19
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +0
 * Chance: +0
 * Total: 45

Result
Finland collapses to the Swedes and Soviets.

Discussion
I don't know if you can get this or not, but not everyone can have full Ms or MVs in Finland. It's just not logical. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:00, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Liberation of the BeNeLux
Allies (Aggressor)
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Sweden (L+4), Britain (M, BC +7), Norway (MV, +2), Estonia (MV, +2), Latvia (MV, +2), Lithuania (MV, +2), USA (S, BC +6), USSR (S, BC +6), Finland (MV+2) = +38
 * Motive: +6
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +1
 * 18:32
 * 1*8*3*2= 48
 * 48/9597= 0.00500156298
 * 0.00500156298*pi= 0.01571287354
 * 0.01571287354
 * Total: 62

Axis

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC+8), Hungary (MV+2), Romania (MV+2), Portugal (M+3), Spain (M+3), Ethiopia (S+2), Vichy France (MV+2), Bulgaria (MV+2) = +25
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +7
 * Total: 58

Result
Stalemate.

Discussion
Africa? In the BeNeLux? Slavs? Across Europe where they hate to be?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:08, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

...I could say the same about your vassals too... Besides Ethiopia is providing support in name only, and in supplies only too. I will concede on Tunisia, though. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:18, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

OK then. How about a small part of XYZ?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:21, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Alright. We'll finalize all that in the peace treaty. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:25, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I sent an expeditionary force to Europe in 1940. Ethiopia is supporting Germany militarily. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 00:25, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Allied Invasion of Germany (Operation Syd) (1946/1947/1948)
Allies (Belligerent)
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Sweden (L+4), Britain (L, BC +7), Soviet Union (L, BC+7) Norway (MV, +2), Estonia (MV, +2), Latvia (MV, +2), Lithuania (MV, +2), USA (S, BC +6), Swedish Finland (MV, +2), Portugal (M, +3) = +37
 * Motive: +5 (Social/Moral)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +6
 * 17:05
 * 1*7*1*5= 35
 * 35/9593= 0.00364849369
 * 0.00364849369*pi= 0.01146208098
 * 0.01146208098
 * Total: 71

Germany (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC+8), Romania (M+3), Hungary (M+3), Bulgaria (M+3), Tunisia (MV+2) = +19
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +10 (Life and Death)
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +8
 * Total: 65

Discussion
Dude, this war hasn't even happened yet...it's a plan... Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:12, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, my bad. But lets keep it up there for reference. PitaKang-  (But here's my number | So call me maybe)  22:12, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll move it under the current wars. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:19, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I love this game. Do we really have to undo the beta? Let's keep it. Please? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:22, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Date is tentative. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:26, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. No reset :) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:30, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Liberation of the NeLux (1944)
Allies (Aggressor)


 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Sweden (L+4), Britain (M, BC +7), Norway (MV, +2), Estonia (MV, +2), Latvia (MV, +2), Lithuania (MV, +2), USA (S, BC +7), USSR (M, BC +7), Belgium (M+3), Holland (M+3), Finland (MV+2) = +40
 * Motive: +6
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +7


 * 18:37
 * 1*8*3*7= 168
 * 168/9601= 0.01749817727
 * 0.01749817727*pi= 0.05497214517
 * 0.05497214517
 * Total: 73

Axis

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Germany (L, BC+8), Spain (M+3), Vichy France (MV+2), Balkan Vassals (MV*3+6), Portugal (M+3), Tunisia (MV+2) = +30
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +4
 * Total: 60

Result
Luxembourg is freed.

Discussion
Pita, part of Finland has been vassalized. Belgium and the Netherlands have been freed. Luxembourg itself would not fight us. You yourself greyed out the Balkan vassals. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:47, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

But the invasion of Benelux in the first place didn't work. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:51, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed and fixed.

Axis-Allies Peace Treaty
The Axis and Allies will cease offensive operations against each other. Once this is confirmed more parts can be created. Temporary truce? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:42, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

How about only in Europe? (Because we know you guys don't care about Mexico either.)

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:48, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Sure. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:53, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Deal, two years. Also, let's not get anyone else in either alliances.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:56, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

The Axis will just use this to regroup and commit more atrocities. We need to act now to free those under German subjugation! CrimsonAssassin (talk) 22:58, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

How about we keep bickering about an agreement until we reach a boiling point (ex: nuke use).

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:01, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Okay then. We nuke a couple of cities each? Then things cool down? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:02, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Deal. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:05, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

How about you let Belgium and Holland go? Eh?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:43, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fine. They may go. And I'll let Denmark go as well, as soon as all the Jews have been cleansed. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:45, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

No cleansing. You may take some into Germany, though. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:48, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Nukes
The only nations really working on nukes are Germany and Sweden. Germany has Bob Open-Hammer and Ain Stain, and Sweden has Enrico Fermi. What now?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:56, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Stuff. How bout Germany creates nukes, then Sweden 2 months later? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:58, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

K. But who uses them first? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:00, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

No one. Yet. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:01, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

OK, how about 1945 we develop nukes and 1946 one of us uses the nukes?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:04, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:05, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Britain's working on one too. Could have sworn the US was developing nukes as well. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 23:07, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

But the US has no real scientists. Germany has almost all of the Jewish scientists that eventually went over to the US. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:09, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. And Britain just started. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:10, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Spain is also working on nukes with Germany. (But don't tell anyone) Stewdio333 (talk) 03:49, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

This Game
This game has just been EPIC... It's like Dota, just back and forth and back and forth... best Axis vs Allies game to date? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:01, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. All thanks to Sweden's back-and-forthing and Fed's amazing twists in the USSR. ;) Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 23:02, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

And the incredibly aggressive Germany ;) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:03, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

And btw there has been a stalemate for the liberation of BeNeLux by a 4 points spread. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:05, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

One of the best game I played since joined, With Finland gone, I think I must change nationRdv65 (talk) 23:08, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Go to... how bout Portugal, Iraq, etc? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:09, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. This is the best game to date. Very interactive, and I feel that the game is far most steamline after the last four. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 23:10, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

It was slow at first, but once it took off it became a clasic.!The River Nile-2 (talk) 23:15, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I asked below, now I'm asking here. Am I allow to control the Protectorate Danish Government, which still governs domestic affairs? Laptop_Zombie 04:24, January 27, 2013 (UTC)



Yeah.

Anyways, here's the trailer for this game. (Take out the aliens.) Some guy made this cool video for Turtledove's Worldwar.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 05:16, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Dammit, Scraw! Now I want to make another BFE map game lol CrimsonAssassin (talk) 05:25, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, maybe you should. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 05:28, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L +4), Germany (M, BC +7), Italy (M +3), Japan (S, BC +6), North Yemen (MV+2), Djibouti (MV+2) = +23
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Motive: +5 (Political)
 * Special Status: +0
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +5
 * 18:22
 * 1*8*2*2= 32
 * 32/1596= 0.0200501253132832
 * 0.0200501253132832*pi= 0.0629573934837093
 * 0.0629573934837093
 * Plausibility Points: 0
 * Total: 46

Anglo-Egyptian Sudan (Defendant)

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Sudan (L+4), Britain (M, BC + 7), Kenya (MV + 3), United States (S, BC +5) = +19
 * Motive: +5
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +9
 * Plausibility Points: +1
 * Total: 43

Result
Tactical Ethiopian victory.

Ethiopia (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: -2
 * Strength: Ethiopia (L +4), Germany (M, BC +7), Italy (M +3), North Yemen (MV+2) = +17
 * Motive: +5 (Political)
 * Special Status: +0
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +5
 * 18:22
 * 1*8*2*2= 32
 * 32/1596= 0.0200501253132832
 * 0.0200501253132832*pi= 0.0629573934837093
 * 0.0629573934837093
 * Plausibility Points: 0
 * Total: 34

British Somaliland (Defendant)

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Britain (L, BC + 7), (South Yemen (MV+2), United States (S, BC +5), Sweden (S, +2), Ind/Pop = 25
 * Motive: +5
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance: +9
 * Plausibility Points: +1
 * Total: 49

Result
Marginal British victory. No territory gained.

Discussion
Do you really think you have more industry and more population than Great Britain?AP (talk) 01:28, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Pay attention to the combatants. Ethiopia itself no. Ethiopia, Germany, Japan, and Italy combined yes. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:00, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

My good sir, it is  the leader. >:@ And Japan withdrew from the Axis. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 04:02, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Japan promised military aid to Ethiopia, not the Axis, hence my reason for including it in the algorithim. We were allies before either nation joined the Axis Powers to begin with hence the commitment. Additionally, without India, and with Germany controlling most of Europe, the Axis have a far larger population and industrial base than the US and Britian combined. Plus, Sweden didn't make any commitments to the fight in East Africa during the turn. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:05, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

So? Alliances conflict. If Germany and co. is aiding you, Japan will not. And it doesn't matter: we are going by leaders, not altogethers. Britain trumps Ethiopia several times over. And I do what I want Sweden. Here is my declaration. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 04:13, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

So what your saying is that since your alliance can't by beat the Axis in a straight fight, your choosing to go by leaders to win a fight you were just going to lose anyway. That's what I'm reading. Japan can choose who it supports, and XX said he would support me. He can do what he wants with Japan, and he chose to aid me against you. And Britian is a paper dragon. It just lost half its empire in the span of five years. And what the algorithim says thrumps what you say. And it says we're going by "altogethers". So right now my alliance just beat yours. Just imagine what would have happened if only the British fought the Germans alone because of the silly "leader" rule. Saw how that worked out now didn't we? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:18, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Chill man. Sheesh! Always this problem. One little thing and you rage. Controlled much? The industry/population goes by leader, as the leader is the one invading/defending. We have always been doing this. If we didn't the game would delve into an Allied wankfest and no WWII. If you want to fight the rules, talk to Pita. Until then, you are not getting the PI bonus. (And that's only if he agrees.) And you actually need The old baby to say he's supporting you, due to the alliances gallion. And Egypt is not a vassals. Dark greys are German vassals.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 04:31, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

I don't rage. I only make valid points when I'm trying to make a point. Sorry about that. And The old baby's response on my take page:


 * Me- Hey, can I count on Japanese support in East Africa? I plan to take the British possessions in the region and use them to help you in China.

In much the same way you just declared your support for the allies on the talk page, so too did he on my talk talk page. Also, I'm pretty sure I said German Egypt, which like Britain I called on to support me in the fighting since its an Axis vassal. However, I am willing to concede on this matter. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:39, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Him- Sure, I will give you support in my next turn.

Yeah I said that, but that was a few years before this happend and your Good axis Friends gave me no support, and  prettty much ignored me, so I jumped sides, you dont get my help anymore.

How did I ignore you when I had an entire military force in Taiwan? I even stated that Ethiopia was active in China for five straight turns, and stop reporting on it when you focused entirely on your civil war. I never ignored you, you just never acknowledge my support. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:14, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Denmark?
Is it possible for me to still play as Denmark while Denmark is occupied by Germany? Cuz in OTL Denmark still keeps its king and government in this era, and governs internal politics. Laptop_Zombie 01:49, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Liberation of Portugal (1944)
Allies (Aggressor)
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Sweden (L+4), Britain (L, BC +8), Norway (MV, +2), Estonia (MV, +2), Latvia (MV, +2), Lithuania (MV, +2), USA (M, BC +7), USSR (M, BC +7), Belgium (M+3), Holland (M+3), Finland (MV+2), Industry/Population (Britain) = +47
 * Motive: +6
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +5
 * Chance:


 * Total: 73+chance

Axis

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Germany (M, BC+7), Spain (L+4), Vichy France (MV+2), Balkan Vassals (MV*3+6), Tunisia (MV+2) = +27
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: +10
 * Morale: +0
 * Economy: +3
 * Chance:
 * Total: 57+chance

Result
Portugal is taken. New Allied government installed.

Discussion
It was never taken over... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:58, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Really? We thought it was... Oh well, new Allied Power!

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:00, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Wut... they joined us cause we threatened them. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:06, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Finalized Peace Treaty
Germany can retain all conquered lands in Eastern Europe, since no one really cares about them. France can have most of its lands back. Germany will keep the German-speaking regions of the East. The Low Countries may go free. All hostilities stop. Deal? Also what happened to the Mid East conquests and Egypt... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:00, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Egypt will be given independence and the Arab locations will be given back to their masters. We will all arrange for Italy to release Yugoslavia and all regions taken from France. Franco-German regions will have referendums on which nation to go to (RNGs). OK?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:04, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

No. Syria and Palestine will be given independence as well. I don't care about Italy. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:05, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Can I keep Belgium? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:06, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Also then give Finland independence as well. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:08, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Finland is not gaining independence. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:09, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Then neither is Egypt. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:20, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Why? Finland went to war us. Egypt did nothing to you. Your argument is invalid. Plus, who give a hell about owning Egypt? There's nothing there. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:24, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

The Suez Canal is the only reason I think they want to keep Egypt. Enclavehunter (talk) 22:25, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

You got it. Also, Egypt was part of Britain, who went to war with us. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:26, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

So? Egypt is still Egypt, not Britain. There will no Finland for the remainder of history. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:30, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

You know if you want the Suez Canal. Just do a Suez Canal Zone (similiar to the Panama Canal Zone) excepts its in Egupt and runned by Germans. Enclavehunter (talk) 22:35, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. Sure, Egypt will get independence. I keep Canal Zone. Deal. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:38, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Actually I planned on not having peace accords. We cannot afford to have Hitler and Germany survive. We need to destroy Germany!

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:40, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

No metagaming though. Let's keep arguing over petty little things, OK?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:41, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry, I'm going to have Hitler killed in 1945 lol. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:48, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Is the US still at war with Mexico? Suzon says were not, according to hime he demilitarized, left the war, and gave me land. But I never did agree to anything. Are we still at war or not? Enclavehunter (talk) 22:49, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

No, you are not.

@ Pita:

And then the successor finished nukes, nukes Sweden, restarts the war, and Nazi Germany collapses?

Btw, when did you get Turkey?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:52, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't really "get" Turkey. They just joined the Axis, but they have to obey the Nazis. I threatened to invade/nuke em. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:16, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Also, my plan is to have during the nuking for most of the Nazi party to die. Then the Army would take over and destroy the Nazis. The Third Reich would remain, but none of the expansionist/racist stuff. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:17, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

OK...let's proceed with matters, shall we?

Also, when do you and I get our nukes. 45?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:22, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah 45. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:25, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Can I be a Big Cheese after I get my nuke? Maybe replace Japan or the UK? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:28, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

If you two get your nukes in 45. When could the US get its. I'd say 1950 or 1951. Enclavehunter (talk) 00:30, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

I think more like 47 or 48. No later than 49. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:33, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

17 Point Plan
We ask for Eastern France the parts of Holland to have referendums. (I did RNGs for French areas.) Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:28, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Egypt will be given independence, but Germany will retain the Suez Canal Zone.
 * 2) Palestine and Syria will be given independence.
 * 3) France will reclaim most of France
 * 4) Belgium will be given independence
 * 5) Denmark will be given independence
 * 6) Tunisia will be given independence
 * 7) Madagascar and all surrounding islands will be given independence
 * 8) Sudan will be given independence
 * 9) Germany will retain parts of Eastern France and Holland. (This is to protect the Ruhr industrial area.)
 * 10) Southern Algeria will be given to France
 * 11) Kaliningrad will be given back to the Soviet Union.
 * 12) Gibraltar will be given back to Britain.
 * 13) Holland will remain under occupation.
 * 14) Italy will pull out of France
 * 15) Italy will retain Yugoslavia but lose the rest of their conquests.
 * 16) Italy will withdraw from Sudan.
 * 17) Britain will withdraw from Iceland.

Also all colonies will return to their original owners, except for the ones that will be given independence. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:30, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

It's not a matter of RNGs as more of "we're staying here." Also, we need Holland to defend our industrial areas. Not joking. Why do you think Hitler invaded the Low Countries in the first place? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:33, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

But we don't care. :( Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:35, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

So we're staying there. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:44, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Then there won't be peace. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:49, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Fine then. Go RNG. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:58, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Whoa whoa whoa chill, don't go giving away our plans!                  ♒   "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:51, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Denmark is starting researches on nukes. When can I get it? Regards, Laptop_Zombie 03:47, January 28, 2013 (UTC).

1952.                  ♒   "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:51, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

I really need 8 years? What about cooperation with Sweden? And sorry about exposing that. Is Denmark getting back Iceland? Or Greenland? Or the Faroes? Regards, Laptop Zombie 05:58, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, here's Spain's terms with the Peace Treaty (if it will still happen)
 * We will reliqunish control of Gibraltar, as long as it becomes its own soverign nation, not British territory, where Spanish will be permitted as a national language.
 * Southern Algeria can be given to France, as long as we still have control of the oilfields in the North. Any more damage to our economy could be disasterous for all sides.
 * That our military is not limited, and that we may permit the development of weaponry of all types within Spain.
 * Portugal does not establish bases for foreign Armies, we are willing to pay for all the damage that the EEL caused to the Portuguese and their country, but no foreign military prevelence in Portugal. We are willing to accept an "Allies", "Axis" or neutral government in Portugal.
 * The Spanish Arab Dominion remains as Spanish territory, with a Prime Minister in Algiers who is picked under the decision in Madrid. Spanish and Arabic can be accepted, but the region remains under Madrid's rule.
 * Stewdio333 (talk) 08:20, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Australia:We agree  to  Spain's requests on Southern Algeria.The River Nile-2 (talk) 13:22, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thailand
Australia asks Thailand to hand the ATL Muslim and ethnically Malay, Pattani region in the far south over to there non-Thai kinsmen in British Malaya or give it independence because they OTL don;t like Buddhists of Thais. The River Nile-2 (talk) 00:51, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Japan

 * Location 3
 * Tactical:1
 * Military help:(Australia)3, nonmilitary 0 GReater pop:3, Greater industry 3, Big Cheese:4
 * Motive:6
 * Algorithm to be finished later.

Nukes Nukes Nukes!
Let's index up the nuke programs:

Year finish i.e. when nuke production starts. Regards, Laptop Zombie 07:57, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

What about me, Ive had Nuclear posts since 1943 and I have  Yoshio Nishna.XX (talk) 12:08, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Just add another row to the table for your nation. Regards, Laptop Zombie 12:38, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

C'mon people, fill this table up! Regards, Laptop Zombie 13:23, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Italys had nuclear research since 1942.5 and Enrico Fermi is actualy an Italian, so please put him under Italy. (DeanSims: Talk) 14:40, January 28, 2013 (UTC)