Talk:Principia Moderni (Map Game)

War Algorithm
An updated algorithm can be found on the rules page

Location goes by capital city.
 * at the location of the war: 5
 * next to the location of the war: 4
 * close to the location of the war: 3
 * far from location of the war: 2
 * other side of the world: 1
 * Antarctica: 0

Tactical Advantage

 * attacker's advantage: 1
 * high ground: 2
 * Note: A country receives high ground if:

1) Its capital has a high topographical prominence, meaning it is surrounded by areas of significantly lower elevation. Even plateaus count, but it must be so that the enemy has to climb the mountain to capture the capital.

2) For countries being invaded from the coast, they get high ground if their capital is 300 m or higher.

3) A country invading via sea does not get high ground.

4) A country gets high ground if their capital is more than 300 m higher than the capitals of the neighboring countries.

5) A country invaded from a bordering country, and its capital is 500 m higher or more.

Strength

 * each country on a side of the war: L for leader (+4), M for military aid (+3), S for supplies (+2), V for vassalization or subordination (-1) and then W for withdrawal (-1). So a list of belligerents read like China (L), Zhuang Warlords (MVW), Japan (M), Korea (MW), Hawaiian rebels (MV), Mali (SW), creating a score of 13
 * country has developed military: 1 for each turn dedicated to military or military technology in the last 15 years
 * expansion: -1 for every turn used for expansion in the past 10 years

Motive

 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * motive is religious: 7
 * motive is social or moral: 6
 * motive is political: 5
 * motive is economic: 3

If there are multiple motives, the one told to the army will be selected.

Chance
0 to 9 points will be awarded to each person based on chance. Factors will be the opponent's edit count (on Althist's main articles) and the precise time when the country declares war or acknowledges the other's declaration of war. The product of the non-zero digits of the time by UTC (0:00 yields 1) will be written as a percentage of the opponent's edit count at the exact time of the declaration. If the resulting number is less than one hundred percent, the reciprocal is taken. The result is multiplied by pi and the hundredths digit is the amount of points that person gets (e.g. 123.8377% yields 3). The algorithm is online for fairness, but I will be the moderator.

Other

 * Countries in civil disarray are able to resist invasion by a factor of 1.5. However, they may not take territory in another country.
 * If X countries attack another country, they have to take 100X/(X+2)% of their opponents' territory to facilitate a full government transplant.
 * Expansion into countries not fully united is multiplied by 1.5, but it does not affect how well the country fares in war if it wins the war.
 * Stability bonus points as calculated by the stability moderator.

Stage 3 - huge factories near cities, massive urbanization, mass use of railways, steam powered ships common, electricial experimentation

 * All of Russian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Swedish territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of French territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Hungarian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Persian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Prussian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Chinese territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Hanthawaddian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Bharatian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Korean territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Nipponese territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Vvietnamese territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Incan territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Itsaygahian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Neue Brandenburian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Spanish territory + colonies, vassals & puppets
 * All of Napolitian territory + colonies, vassals & puppets

Stage 4 - airplanes and cars, decrease in the factories near cities, more urbanization but focused on towns, electricity used in cities

 * None

Discussion
I have one complaint: according to the list of what you need to do to advance, to get to stage 3 you need to open a rail link. However, for Naples, a nation with large amounts of its territory in islands, and with a significant portion in Africa, and the land being primarily a peninsula, it makes more sense for them to invest in steamships prior to investing in steam trains. So making the first functioning steamships should count as well as making the first rail link. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:30, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah Nippon is in a similar situation due to all the islands, but I'm just going to do both but with more focus on steamships than trains. Of course I'll do some train lines but steamships are more relevant for Nippon, VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:11, February 14, 2012 (UTC).

I see your point. For Nippon and Naples ONLY, I accept a sea route operated by steam-powered ships.Scandinator (talk) 08:39, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

What about electricity? we have to assume that something like the voltaic pile eventually was discovered?i mean, already is 1818 and nothing about it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 07:58, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Stability
2.5*Number of digits of population*Time

Time is:


 * 1) Number of years ruled / 10.
 * 2) Plug into: x^1.25/1.25^x.

So take the current United States: 9 digits in population. Ruled for 235 years. Thus:23.5^1.25/1.25^23.5*2.5*9 = 6 points



Graphical representation. Red is 6 digit in population, green is 7 digits, blue is 8 digits, and yellow is 9 digits. The horizontal axis is years and the vertical is bonus points. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 01:36, October 31, 2011 (UTC) {C}{C When you archive the page again,please don't remove this section. i need to remind how the stability curve is done.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 20:15, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Due to the vote, in which every voting player agreed, this system will now be used for all nations (however, some changes have been proposed based upon industrialization) LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:54, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Algorithm Results and Moderator Revolts
The new equation for gains from war algorithms is (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where x is the number of the years the war goes on and p is the amount of territory determined by the algorithm ((y/z+y)*2)-1 where y is the winner's score and z is the losers). So if your war lasts one year, you only get 50% of the territory, but if you let the war last five years, you get 90% of the territory.

For mod rebellions or rebellions for new players who want to join, a specific area will be selected. For new players, it has to be a specific ethnic, regional, or national area, but for mod rebellions it will depend on the situation (i.e. for homogenous countries). The algorithm will continue normally, except the territory "owned" by the rebellion will equal half the disputed territory. If the war is a tie, the rebellious country may choose territory from 1/2 of the disputed area.

Stability vote
Since the table is still not up, though its been promised for months, and since whenever Scandinator does promise a deadline, he partially fills the table up and then abandons it for weeks on end to become outdated, I have come to the conclusion he will never get it done, and thus the stability system will never work. Since whenever I attempt to simply bring this up he always makes excuse after excuse and delays for month after month, I am hearby just going to bring forward the motion to a vote to go back to the old system, which we could find out own stability and did not require all algorithms to wait for one player to come up with a number which we have no way to verify whether it is true or not. Voting will end this time tomorrow. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:33, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Return to the Old Stability Curve for the reasons above

 * LurkerLordB (Talk)
 * -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 22:37, April 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * RandomWriterGuy 22:40, April 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Galaguerra1 22:52, April 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * --Yank 23:43, April 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Zagoria 03:33, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * if add bonus for pop. and industry-Lx (leave me a message) 16:29, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Scand's procrastination is absolutely disgusting. You shouldn't make promises you can't keep. --Yank 23:47, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Please note that I sympathize with Scandinator being too busy to work on the table. However, if you are too busy for months, too busy for the entire forseeable future, then you are too busy for the job. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:19, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

You sicken me! CrimsonAssassin 16:01, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

The Thing is that Population and industrialisation, one of the greatest factors in warat this point in history, will not be taken into account,so add some sort of bonus in the algorithm(like a populaiton ratio bonus(10:1 ratio, nation with more gets 10 point bonus), and some sort of industry bonus, Scan is taking too long, and return to the old table or system would be easier. -Lx (leave me a message) 16:27, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

The old stability system factored in population (the equation used the years of the government's existance and the digits in the population as variables). For the industrialization thing, if you can think of a bonus, you can propose it. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:52, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Oh right, I forgot about eh multiplication that we got rid of. For industry, perhaps we could have the stage of industrialization, multiplied by the poplation ratio to get a bonus, or simply the industrial stage(or difference between industrial stages)Squared as a bonus-Lx (leave me a message) 01:39, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

or if they are equal, the industrial stage squared+the difference in years worked on industry(railways, telegraph systems, factories, industrial tech, etc...) in the past 10 between the warring nations(up to a 5 point bonus), making the maximum industrial bonus 21(4*4+5), and the lowest right now is 9(3*3+0)-Lx (leave me a message) 01:44, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, 24 hours have passed, and everyone is either in agreement or hasn't voted. Therefore, I hearby declare the new system null and void and a return to the stability curve hearby in effect. Lx, you should make a new section for "Industrialization Stability/Algorithm bonus" where we can discuss new ideas for that. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:48, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I have probably not heard from Scan for weeks. And he is the only person who is good for the stability. WHERE HAS HE GONE?! RandomWriterGuy 04:12, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea, Lx.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 09:36, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

RWG, calm down. He is in Orlando having a holiday (which he kinda deserves). You would know that if you read posts, lol. :P Imperium Guy 12:07, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Calm down?! Forget that! Freak the hell out.THIS IS A DISASTER! THE ENTIRE WIKI MIGHT SHUT DOWN!!!!!
 * You also don't need to react like those SOPA and PIPA bills were about to pass.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 15:46, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

People, keep calm and carry on. CrimsonAssassin 22:31, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

You forgot the crown Crim. It would be "[crown] keep calm and carry on. :P Imperium Guy 22:35, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Nice no find this at the end of my holiday... Good to see you spent my 48 hours flying or in transit doing something useful. I was planning to update the table now that I am back in Sydney with my laptop but seeing as it is crossed out... Scandinator (talk) 23:14, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, we just wanted to make it clear that it was not being used. If we we put it in really small print instead, would it make you feel better? CrimsonAssassin 02:20, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Industrialization bonus for war
For industry, perhaps we could have the stage of industrialization, multiplied by the poplation ratio to get a bonus, or simply the industrial stage(or difference between industrial stages)Squared as a bonus

or if they are equal, the industrial stage squared+the difference in years worked on industry(railways, telegraph systems, factories, industrial tech, etc...) in the past 10 between the warring nations(up to a 5 point bonus), making the maximum industrial bonus 21(4*4+5), and the lowest right now is 9(3*3+0), or we could just use the difference for all of the ones(not only if there is a -Lx (leave me a message) 14:14, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts? I guess I can make this a vote.

Discussion
I think that this only may be used by wars among player nations.A example of what might happen is if hypothetically, Russia, after updating their industry or similars for five consecutive years tries to invade the southern Shwaili state.given that the AI didn 't post, we will have to put their number of updates a 0. their bonus scores then become like this: SSS: (1x1+0)/R: (3x3+5).- SS: 1/R:14. This, if done correctly, can give a big advantage over industrially weaker states, specially if they are AI.somebody remembers when we used larger numbers for stability, the player nations came to have larger stability numbers than what could ever be acheived by a AI, and then we procceeded to invade such nations (Mameluks, Ottomans, Inca, Hafsids, maybe others). to avoid this to happen again, i think that we should use this bonus for wars among player nations, and not AI-plaayer nations, as i said before.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 16:50, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Or we can use a different system for the AI, and have their color be the Industry, but remember, in history, the European States dominated because of their Industrial Power, and the fact that the industrial armies of The Brittish and the french went up against the industrialy and technologicaly weaker nodal/nomadic states.

Franco-Vietnamese War 1866
France
 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 47 (France (L), Malouinas (MV), Haiti (MV), Burgundy (MV), Nouvelle-France (MV), Venice (MVW), Sicily (SVW), Russia (M), South Africa (MV), Novorossiya (MV), Kazakhztan (MV), Poland (MV), Újfundlandi (MV), Italy (MV), Neue Brandenburg (M), Nippon (M), Finland (M), Persia (M), Yemen (MV))
 * Motive: 5
 * Expansion: -4
 * Military Expansion: 5
 * Puppet States: -4
 * Chance: 824/20*pi =129.43
 * Editcount = 824
 * Time:1*5*4 =20
 * Stability: 1.3^1.25/1.25^1.3*2.5*8=21 (rounded)
 * Total: 76

Vietnam

 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 33 (Vietnam (L), Burma (MV), Kenia (MV), Taiwan (MV), Dravidia (M), Brunei (M), Newfoundlandian rump state [Ungava] (M), Uruguay (S), Sweden (M), Baltic Alliance (MV), Hanover (MV), Fjordlaand (M), Istoias (S)
 * Puppet States: -2
 * Motive: 5
 * Expansion: -3
 * Military Expansion: 6
 * Chance: 8057/8*pi=3,163.9765
 * Editcount = 8057
 * Time:4*2 = 8
 * Stability: 8.0^1.25/1.25^8.0*2.5*8=45
 * Total: 93

Result
Vietnam is most likely to be the victor.

Discussion
I know both nations have vassals and allies and whatnot, but none have posted that they are entering thus far from what I can see, so add them yourselves. (note, if you are in alliance with a player nation, even dynastic union, that player needs to post for it to be recognized). LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:26, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Old Russian colonies support france because they have to. Russians dont realy like it though, but the fracturing party after Mehseryakov's demise will not be good to Charles-Louis in the end.

Yank, I'm not planning keeping any territory I manage to conquest. Except may be Furanchesou, if you agree. --Galaguerra1 02:19, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

What year did the Russian and French legislatures merge? Because that's the biggest change in government I can think of recently. I need that for stability. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:29, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

1853 --Galaguerra1 02:39, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

OK, now they are complete unless more people join. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:42, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Neue Brandenburg enters the war on the French side... Sorry for being a little late...Zagoria 02:43, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Only 12 point difference. Could be tight... LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:46, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

I just have 4 puppets, Nouvelle-France, Haiti, Újfundlandi and Malouinas, while Italy and Burgundy are vassals, unless you're counting Sicily and Venice, but they're administrated by Lurker. Also the provisional govenrment of Ungava should probably be on the vietnamese side.--Galaguerra1 02:51, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Dayak Federation is supporting Vietnam--Sawdog88

The color made me think Adal was a puppet. Anyways, what is Ungava? LurkerLordB (Talk) 03:00, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

The French took control of all newfoundland up to Saglek Bay. Ungava is all of Newfoundland which was not taken.It will be referred like this on the future, because after the war, The Newfoundlandians on the main island will form a government of their own, and will not recognize the Newfoundland Ungavan state, and they won't recognize the island state neither.think of Taiwan/China.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 07:26, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Wait... South Africa? this means that the Russian colony there is independent now?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 07:43, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Ya...they can do whatever but diplomacy is handeled by Russia. I planned to do this regardless of France, its about this time in history. -Lx (leave me a message) 16:29, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I added Nippon, Persia and Finland, are their vassals (if any) supporting me? I suposed Finland and Persia are supporting me as int he last turns, please confirm. --Galaguerra1 16:41, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

I want to set out my territorial claims ahead of time. Yank 03:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) I will give France Furansuchou, especially if the current Franco-Russian regime is taken down.
 * 2) I want Haiti, or just a portion of it.
 * 3) I want a portion of Russia's Novorossiya colony.

This wasn't supose to anyone to take any territory, in fact, I wasn't even planning to use algorithms until you create one. The Franco-russian union will fall, but I don't know what to say about the rest. I would like to have Furanchesou, but, if I must give you a part of Haiti, I prefer it the way it is. If you want territory, you can take it over, is your right, you made an algorithm, but you can't demand any territory from Russia. --Galaguerra1 03:59, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Nippon's vassals & puppets I don't think would get involved as they are only really leaning towards this side because Nippon is forcing them. The Commonwealth won't be participating in the war on either side too. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 15:16, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

I will agree to witdraw all territorial claims, and the world returns to satus quo ante bellum. I still insist that the Franco-Russian-Italian union be dissolved, at which time I will sell Furansuchou to the post-Imperialist Frech regime.

Yank 23:40, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

I already agreed with Galaguerra that the Italian portion, at least, would become free very soon after the war (this basically means all pre-war European Neapolitan territory, plus Tunisia and Pahang). RandomWriterGuy can keep Vicia though, I never really did anything with that land and I was planning on making them independent but a grey nation not controlled anyways. LurkerLordB (Talk) 13:49, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Can I annex the traditionally english area of Calais? Scandinator (talk) 08:57, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'd prefer you to not. Besides, that city hasn't been english in centuries. --Galaguerra1 16:54, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible that the war would end in a stalemate instead? RandomWriterGuy 19:19, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

No. The entire French side is on the verge of collapsing into revolutions and smaller states, there's no way they could win, especially since with all the people withdrawing the algorithm difference will become huge. LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:32, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

But Persia can keep control of Vicia, since I never really had anything to do with it. You can say the Incan remnant of the population decided they liked the Persians better than the Neapolitans. They'll still be heavily Catholic though. LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:35, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Or maybe in the middle of the chaos the Incans deside they want their Independence back.-Tim

I can keep the Neapolitan South American colony, but the recent Vietnamese colony I took will be handed back to Vietnam. RandomWriterGuy 22:06, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I changed the result due to what is going on. RandomWriterGuy 22:06, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

France
We need to unite our forces to defeat this warmonger! Who's with me?

Yank 00:29, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Dravidia is with you. Istoias and Ricasolia are in conflict over which side to join. Naples would help Vietnam, but France already defeated them. LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:57, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

When's Scandinator coming back? He's kind of the Great Britain in my napoleonic plan. Also internal problem in the mesheryakovist faction will help you defeating me. Malouians will turn against France, and massive protest will be held. I hope you'll fegure out a plan to defeat France and take it to that outbreak point. --Galaguerra1 01:37, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Please note that my current Shogun is a bit of a tyrant, he's going to be on the French side and try carving out an even larger Nipponese empire by attacking Sweden in the South Pacific, Vietnam's Taiwan & New Lithuanian vassals (as well as blockading the straights of Malacca to stop Vietnamese aid reaching Europe), and Brunei too. However eventually Shogun Iemochi will be overthrown in a coup by the pro-emperor politicians and clans. There will then be a civil war very similar to OTL Boshin War, and the pro-emperor people will set up a new provincial government to rule Nippon until the civil war is over. The Tokugawa forces will be forced into retreat to Kamochatoka, where they will stay for a while, supplied by their Russian allies; but will fall when the Russians stop supplying them. Don't worry all the land I conquer in these next few years will be returned VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 12:26, April 13, 2012 (UTC).

Same here, my maharaja is tired of the mahajhapanas doing the decision making and he will also be toppled in a coup and be replaced by his son, although there won't be much of a civil war after that though 'cause he's going to have much of a following. :P Imperium Guy 13:33, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Why are you trying to attack France? RandomWriterGuy 17:14, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Because they are invading all sorts of nations? And we have talked about this sort of thing for months? LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:12, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Scramble for Africa
Songonese scientists are coming in with breakthroughs with cinchona bark (native to OTL Ecuador) as treatment for malaria. As in OTL, this will be one of the main factors to kickstart the exploration and conquest of the interior of Africa. The technology shall become widespread and ready for use throughout the Americas in 1871. The technology is free to use by any European power or colony in 1875, and it is ready to use anywhere else by 1880. Thus, expansion in tropical or marshy areas will be multiplied by 1.5 until otherwise decided.

However, keep in mind that in order for the 1.5 multiplier to apply, you cannot create major settlements except along the coast (i.e. Mozambique, Senegal, etc.) —this is known as indirect rule, for the purposes of our game. This keeps the culture of the interior intact. If you wish to create settlements in the interior (i.e. South Africa), the 1.5 can not apply —this is called direct rule. You cannot mix and match.

More information: if your technological level does not include steamships, then you cannot benefit from the 1.5 multiplier. Also, you are advised to stay along major bodies of water. There is a reason why areas with major rivers were the most sought after in OTL. Do your research!

Make decisions wisely and let the Scramble Begin! Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 03:06, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

I have been waiting for this moment for a long time...-Lx (leave me a message) 03:08, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Why does Europe get a 6 year bonus? In this timeline, many Asian nations are advanced and industrialized, and have colonies in the Americas as well- In fact, the largest American colonial Empire is the Chinese one. Why then should Europe get the advantage? LurkerLordB (Talk) 03:34, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

^ This CrimsonAssassin 13:52, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'd say any nation can get the bonus in 1875, since the European only seems to be either biased or simply tied into our timeline. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:34, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

The vote went through, any nation that has a colonial empire can get the bonus next turn. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:03, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

The Map Change!
I saw that Scan changed the map because he said that no Spanish territory takeover until MofS was back. Is that fair? I understand that he said it was not good how we were taking Spain's territory without the playing being here, but I had an algorithim and I only took over his colony. Imperium Guy 18:08, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Didn't Scandinator read the last discussion? There is no rule against attacking players who are not gone. You can say it is courteous not to, but there is no rule stopping it. Plus, Scandinator isn't even a mapmaker. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:36, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless if MofS was here or not, he would of still lost the algorithm. I agree with Imp, VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 15:07, April 14, 2012 (UTC).

Ricasolia

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2 (high ground)
 * Strength: 12 (Ricasolia (L), Isolque (M), Istoias (M), Sicily (SV), Venice (SV))
 * Motive: 10
 * Expansion: -0
 * Military Expansion: 0
 * Puppet States: -0
 * Chance: 3673/48*pi =240.397288
 * Editcount = 3673
 * Time:1*6*4*2=48
 * Stability: 7.2^1.25/1.25^7.2*2.5*7=41
 * Total: 79

Persia

 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 4 (Persia (L), Yemen (MV))
 * Puppet States: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Military Expansion: 0
 * Chance: 4051/36*pi=353.51
 * Editcount =4051
 * Time:1*6*2*3=36
 * Stability: 3.0^1.25/1.25^3.0*2.5*8=40
 * Total: 47

Result
Ricasolia crushes Persia.

Discussion
Wow, the Persians get crushed because all they do is try and gobble up more territory and never have anything actually go on in their nation. That and RandomWriterGuy apparently misses 72 days worth of the gameplay involving Haiti because of all the copy-pasta. LurkerLordB (Talk) 17:04, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

I canceled this war already. RandomWriterGuy 17:06, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Stop cancelling wars just because you realize that you are going to lose them. LurkerLordB (Talk) 20:29, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

So, the war stays cancelled or we carry on with it?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 21:27, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

I already retconned all of my posts, but how about this: next time something like this happens, the war won't be retconned unless all players involved (AKA anyone who responded) agree. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:08, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam
Total: 93 (nice!!)
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Vietnam (L), Kenia (MV), Bharat (M), Bihar (MV), Orissa (MV), Jaffna (MV), Nippon (M): 18
 * Motive: 5
 * Expansion: -3
 * Military Expansion: 6
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 8,142
 * Time: 04:20 = 8
 * (8142/8)*pi = 3197.355 9 23
 * Participation: 10
 * Stability: 8.0^1.25/1.25^8.0*2.5*8=45

South Swahili
Total: 34 + Stablity
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 4 South Swahili (L)
 * Motive: 10
 * Expansion: 0
 * Military Expansion: 0
 * Puppet States: 0
 * Chance: 5 (random.org)
 * Participation: 10
 * Stability: TBD

Result
Definate Vietnamese Victory.

Discussion
I don't know how to complete the algorythm. Math was never my strong suit.

Yank 18:49, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Oh my, this war has been going on for ages. I'll try to do it for you! :D Imperium Guy 19:56, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

BTW, Bharat is helping. :D Imperium Guy 19:59, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Nippon will send military aid to, as an apology for the whole Shogun Iemochi stuff, VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:29, April 27, 2012 (UTC).

Scamble for Africa Vote
I see no reason why Europe should be allowed to start 5 years early, as many East Asian nations, such as China and Vietnam, have huge colonial empires as well. Thus, I move to allow all nations to begin using the modifier in 1875. Voting will last 24 hours. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:39, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

For

 * LurkerLordB (Talk)
 * Maybe base the bonus off your industrialization stage? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:56, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Galaguerra1 23:00, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imperium Guy 09:05, April 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 13:49, April 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yank 15:57, April 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Collie Kaltenbrunner 17:12, April 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * RandomWriterGuy 05:00, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Against

 * Scandinator (talk) 23:28, April 18, 2012 (UTC) Yes but no Asian nation has had a large colony in Africa and held it for a long time. Contrast that with the Northern African colonies, New Songhai, the South African colonies. I'm saying at most Vietnam will also be included but not Nippon, China, Bharat, Persia and Korea; nations which have not ever expressed interest in Africa and have been more focused on the Americas till now. Maybe they can get a South/North America bonus? NOTE: Sweden has no interest in Africa at this point in time so this comment is on a neutral base.

Discussion
Lol I don't even have any colonies... :) PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:33, April 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * You still have one. a 1 px colony in Australia that you couldn't give to Sweden.this was because if i gave it, he would stay with 8 colonies--Collie Kaltenbrunner 13:45, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam has a large colony in Africa and their vassal is quite powerful as well!! :P Imperium Guy 09:05, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Notice its the players with EUROPEAN nations opposing changing this? And so what if you haven't had a colony in Africa for a long time? You could say that every time someone sets up a new colony somewhere different. Giving the bonus to just European nations is just biased; I mean are you saying that one of the small German states or Balkan nations has more of an advantage/right than China, Vietnam, Nippon or Bharat in colonizing Africa? The bonus should be based on industrialization or strength of nation: after all not every European country in OTL had African colonies --VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 15:52, April 19, 2012 (UTC).

Austria-Hungary is the best example.But this part of strength is right.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 16:11, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Somebody can explain how i can use this bonus on my colonies?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 16:14, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

The current system is just based on geography, Scandinator. Currently, if a new player joined as Romania, he would have the bonus while Vietnam would not. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:17, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

24 hours have passed, and the vote is 7 to 1 in favor. Therefore, I'll amend the announcement. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:02, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

I am indifferent to the colonies bonus, all my former colonies in Africa declared independance before this...-Lx (leave me a message) 12:18, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

And again!
Um, Persia gave me its Australian colony because I supported it in its invasion of the Swedish colony in Southy America but our troops withdrew when Persia declared that they had won!! :D Imperium Guy 11:39, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

I too have an issue with the map, the Sultanate of Sokotara has been expanding into that grey nation in OTL Somalia and it hasn't been shown. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:29, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Imperium. We didn't really "won". It's just a withdraw because Russia was losing the war and I did not want to take any chances. ):

P.S. What is that orange territory on OTL Brazil? RandomWriterGuy 15:30, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Neue Brandenburg.Frankly, how you didn't noticed it until now?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 15:54, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oh shame, looks like I have to invade it... only joking! :P Imperium Guy 17:36, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Also, Nouvelle-Gascogne has expanded to get a way to expand (outlet ot the black territories), and shouldbe coloured blue. Songhay and Nouvelle-Normandie should also be blue. They are colonies of France, as Guiée, while Akon is a vassal.

And, RWG, don't be offended but... Do you even read other ones's posts or you just copy-paste not even reading the events? --Galaguerra1 18:13, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * What? you are trying to say that Nouvelle Normandie is expanding north?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 10:36, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

The copy pasting is just for colonial expansion. Nothing else more. RandomWriterGuy 05:09, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Request
Could a new industrialization map be put up as I think the old map is outdated by atleast 50 years. Thank you! :D Imperium Guy 18:27, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

I will update it when i have the time.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 06:29, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Updated.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 10:35, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Collie, much appreciated! :D Imperium Guy 10:50, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Sweden and Russia
Sweden cannot take any territory from Russia unless LxCaucassus agrees, as the algorithm was between Vietnam and France, and thus, only France can be forced to lose any territory. No one else can lose anything without volunterily agreeing to. Since Lx has refused to give that land to Sweden, Scandinator cannot take it. LurkerLordB (Talk) 19:26, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Does this mean he's becoming increasingly implausible? --RandomWriterGuy 19:32, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, but see for yourself what happened when they both resolved to fight a ATL equivalent of the Great Northern War; Great Northern War (Archive Section 4) this is the worst case of what occasionally happens in wars between Sweden and Russia.read the posts below the algorythm to get a picture.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 20:57, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Scan, you need to cut this out. You've been warned before, for chrissake. Lordganon 19:40, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Then we go about this the old-fashioned way: Algorithims. Me and Scan are right now trying to establish a foothold against the Russians in the Americas. :P Imperium Guy 21:22, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Another Sweden-Russia war over Lithuania? This conflict has become horribly long drawn out (although not as ridiculous as the Venetian hatred of Vietnam). LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:25, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

But, regardless, it will take another algorithm to win any territory from Russia, you cannot take any territory from the current war, as its loser was France. If this turns into Great Northern war 5, I'm going to be mad, and so are the Swedish people, most likely. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:29, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Alright I'll stick with Calais only. Scandinator (talk) 22:54, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Also if I had been allowed to take the full algorythm bonus from the second war then none of the other two (3rd and 4th) would have started. I want Lithuania so that I can complete my original plan for the Baltic Alliance and Alaska because I was there first. Scandinator (talk) 23:24, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Since Galaguerra agreed to let you take Calais, you can keep that. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:26, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

But Onguayal is at war with the Russian colony, so what should I do about that. I intend to capture the Russian colony, so... :/ Imperium Guy 11:49, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

That colony is actualy French. Russia has no colonies in South America. And Fine, I will let Scan have Alaska if he lets me have BC and The REst of the West Coast-Lx (leave me a message) 12:12, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

No we return to pre war borders. Scandinator (talk) 06:35, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I say Status quo ante bellum, meaning everything ebfore the war should be restored, including the Franco-Russian Union if they like. RandomWriterGuy 01:37, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Onguayal

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Onguayal (L), Bharat (M), Manoa (MV), Jaffna (MV), Old ACG colony (MV), Old Hattanwaddy portion (MV), Sweden (M)/ UGS (MV)/ IEC (MV) Baltic Alliance (MV), Dravidia (M): 25
 * Military:7
 * Expansion:-6
 * Puppet States:-2
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * UTC Time: 19:19 = 81
 * Edits: 7734
 * (7734/81)*pi = 299.963 9 2
 * Stablity: 0.9^1.25/1.25^0.9*2.5*7=12
 * Participation: 10
 * Total: 66

France

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: France (L), Akon (MV): 17
 * Military: 0
 * Expansion: -2
 * Puppets: -4
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: (No reply)
 * Stablity: 0.3^1.25/1.25^0.3*2.5*8=4.15
 * Participation: 10
 * Total: 37+Chance

Result
Onguayali victory. Onguayal recieves half of Neuelle-Normandie.

Discussion
That colony is Russian. Lx you need to pay more attention. Its the one in the Andes. Scandinator (talk) 00:17, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Ou yay! then send all of Russian Vassals and stuff to the aid, and the Colonies dont have much choice, thats Novorossiya, South Africa, Poland-Lithuania-Belarus(personal Union), Kazakhstan, The Iroquois and Armenia. That Sould do it. that would be 13 extra points, I guess...and if its in the Andes, I am pretty sure that it would count as High ground(becasue of the andes mountains being incredibly high), bit Heck, I'm not an expert about the geography of south America. Also, If a colony is being attacked, then I would assume its life or death, and the attacker would not get the Life or death motive(I know I tried to do this, but every time I declred war on Poland its because the throne of Lithuania was "Claimed" by poland...I know that' no better, but every time It was reduced to political motive, so this should not be an exception).-Lx (leave me a message) 00:21, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

and BTW, where is ONguayal anyways? I thought that colony was french...We were the same colour...and If I did get it its probablhy becasue of a tach or land trade, I did not establish any colonies, and did not aid in the war against Hanthawaddy, so...I did not think its mine...-Lx (leave me a message) 00:28, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

WTF? The colony in the andes is ''mine. ''I posted that the mapmakers should colour it blue (what they didn't). Is Nouvelle-Normandie. Seriously, I've been expanding it the last decades and no one know is mine?--Galaguerra1 01:58, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Onguayal is the country which is in the Bharati colour (although I think that is wrong as it is a semi-independent state). I think it is the French colony (sorry Gal, but I really need a link to the sea), because that is what Gal told me and so did Lx. :/ Imperium Guy 07:30, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

The colony is French. it only was in Russian color last map because i forgot to color it..--Collie Kaltenbrunner 09:02, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Could someone fill in the French military and expansion please? :D Imperium Guy 10:57, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

BTW, would Onguayal be able to become yellow on the industrialization map if it successfully captures the French colony and connects raidroads to the factories in the former French colony, transporting superior industrial techniqes and workers as well as equipment to build factories? And what happens if my majority is great enough for a government transplant of the French? :/ Imperium Guy 17:43, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

The French and Russian stabilities are the same. Are any French vassals helping? I removed the Russian ones because they are no longer at war with Russia. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:25, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I'l sell you the southern outlet to the sea, but I want to keep most of that land. I've worked hard to expand that colony, and you passed through mine, took the country I was planning to invade (Onguayal) without asking me, and then attacked me when I jsut helped you to obtain that land and didn't protest when you took it. I want at least make all that effot worth and keep most of the land. You'll have an outle to the sea and a way to expand south. --Galaguerra1 17:43, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

When you put it that way, it makes me feel bad. I will agree to your request, but on three conditions (the latter two are silly): I get the southern potion of the colony as shown on the map, cricket is made your official sport and you alert Bharat when you invade Aisac-Loirenne, so we can send you all the supprot we can muster. I think the conditions are not bad and although I might take quite a bit from your colony, you have to see I agreed to negociate and you retain the northern portion of you colony (I would have won otherwise). :/ Imperium Guy 17:59, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

O.o, sorry, I might have exagerated. I accept your terms. The next decade I will probably invade Rhineland, so I'll make you know. The next year, the first hindu cricket trainers will be requested, so France will beocme a part of the all mighty bharati cricket colonial empire (?). Thank you very much. I have sufficient land to keep expanding. --Galaguerra1 19:42, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the cricket colonial empire, but yes France will become part of the cricket playing nations. On top of that, I plan to have a South American Regional Cricket Championship. Glad you have accepted the terms, and the war will end in 1881. :D Imperium Guy 19:49, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Galaguerra, you did not post any such claim to being the one to conquer Onguayal, so stop acting like you are somehow wronged in it being taken over in the first place. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:38, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

The dark
It is 1880 and based on current colonization speeds by 2012 we will still have "unexplored" areas. I'm saying we really need to speed up all colonization. Scandinator (talk) 01:12, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, I'm having Dravidia expand Kongo as fast as I can into the Congo basin area, but otherwise much of Africa and parts of South America will still be "unclaimed". LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:38, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Here is my proposal: we have a African, South American,and Australian division conference for the next two turns after this one (1881 and 1882), in which the black areas are divided up. After which, colonial expansion within a nation's colonial claims from the conferences are not bound by colonial expansion, only by plausibility (like normal expansion). Also, expansion within grey areas within Africa and South America are still limited by the colonial expansion, but are treated as if they were black. Expansion in areas not claimed by your nation, and grey areas not in Africa or South America, would still follow the standard colonial expansion equation. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:47, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

North America? I propose Hungary hosts it as it is in a central location. Scandinator (talk) 08:35, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Hungary seems to be beginning a phase of turmoil, I think Naples might be a bit better position. :/ Imperium Guy 10:59, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Then either Naples or Bharat. RWG might do something random if we put it in Persia. Or he might copy paste and remain oblivious to the entire conference. Scandinator (talk) 11:02, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

If we have two positions, then one of the conferences should be solely for Africa and one for solely South America. Thoughts? :D Imperium Guy 11:05, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

No, Hungary accepts the part of host. explaining the recent events: i was thinking on a way to get Serbia to be independent, as i said that some nation would break off of Hungary in this century.as you know, is Serbia.i got to the conclusion that it will be promoted to a autonomous government on the model of Itsaygahi, but it later, will declare independence.the Albanian movement already stagnated, and will stay like this for some time, but by the time that this emnds, Serbia, Diocleia and Albania wll become something like autonomous provinces, on the way that you saw in Itsaygahi/Tsalagi. eventually, Serbia declares independence, and annexes Diocleia.Albania stays like this until the decolonization proccess begins, when the province will lose importance, and in some time, will also declare independence.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 16:00, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, ok. i think that was me misreading it. But beware, I how have the oppotunity to establish 2 more colonies, so I will be establishing them. It just depends on what areas of Africa I could colonize. :D Imperium Guy 17:37, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I got it. Maybe by the 1890's, we can establish one colony per year and expand them in rates like 1000000x1000000 sq. mi. or other stuff. RandomWriterGuy 22:40, April 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * No.the maximum number of colonies that a nation can have is 7.and, don't forget that after 1945, you only can have 3 colonies at maximum.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 06:55, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well in OTL, nations had many colonies. Why can't we do the same thing. RandomWriterGuy 14:01, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Then we are going to need new rules for expansion. and your proposal, concerning size of expansion, is way off.in one year you could expand one trillion square miles, according to your calculation.this is impossible, even in real life.if you disregard the multiplication, and expand one 1 million square miles, in 10 years, you could annex more territory that the Mongol Empire ever held at it's peak.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 17:18, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Since we are going for central location, the city where the conference would be held could be Pozsony, or Bécs.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 06:55, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Moving on. What will the date of the conference be? We are already late by about 10 years (I think) compared to OTL. :s Imperium Guy 17:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

How about we try to keep it as close to the OTL conference (1884-1885), and do it in, 1883?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 20:09, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

1883 sounds alright to me. So we will be discussing the fate of South America and Africa, correct? :D Imperium Guy 20:40, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Just start now cause its gonna last many in game years anyway. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:45, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Recent German moderator events
I crossed out Scandinator's recent German moderator events, due to the fact that they are implausible, potentially biased, and another moderator agreed. Here, I am stating my reasons for crossing out this event, as I feel moderator events should only be removed if a good reason is given.

Berlin and Silesia are rising nations, their governments would have the strong support of people who are grateful to be pulled out of decades of civil disarray. There is no way that they would suddenly just collapse and implode like that, since they had been doing so well and expanding for the past several years. The German people are tired of more than 40 years of civil war, anyone who wanted to pull them back into that chaos would have no support. It is clearly implausible

The reason I am bringing up the subject of bias is that, just after Scandinator makes a new German puppet state whose goal he clearly states is to reunite the German area, he has the few rival states which could unite large portions of that area collapse all of a sudden. To me, this implausible event seems to quite plainly be an opportunity for his German puppet state to suddenly swoop in and unite northern Germany. As he has shown a great interest in this area before, and there have been instances in the past of Scandinator being accused (by me) of misusing moderator powers in this area.

I personally think that it is unethical for moderators to be causing moderator events in areas which their nations are interested. If I had posted the event in which Itsaygahi broke apart, and then the very next turn launched a major attack from one of my nations into Itsaygahi, it would clearly have been me using my moderator powers to weaken my foe. If I had caused the Kongo nation to suddenly implode and go black on the map, right before I established my Dravidian colony there, I would have clearly been misusing my moderator powers. Unless the event is historical (like a natural disaster), no moderator should use moderator events to weaken areas in which one of their nations is attempting to expand in, especially if said event is implausible. To do so is unethical. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:37, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

This actually kind of reminds me of the Persian unrest incident. I mean, Scan cannot do it without evidence. In fact, he put it all there without proof, just like right now. SHould we bar him from non-disaster mod events? RandomWriterGuy 01:41, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Proof/evidence of what, exactly? Do you mean reasons? LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:44, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

You can say that. RandomWriterGuy

I think stuff to do with Persia was because your stablity was low and I think he wanted you to work on your stablity or your country would break apart. I don't really think stablized German ststes would break apart again. :/ Imperium Guy 07:26, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

North America
Starting map for North America. Please do not post new maps until it has been confirmed what your claims will be. The present condition of how North America stands.

Persia:

 * Claims in California, the Great Basin region, and some Itsahagian states.

China:

 * California coast, Mexico up to the Rio Grande, Arizona, New Mexico (Will be claimed when Chinese California revolts), some Itsaygahi states

Russia:

 * Claims from St Petersburg conference (and perhaps the right to certian Itsahagian states)-Lx (leave me a message) 12:10, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Sweden:

 * Claims OTL Alaska; Canada west of Quebec not including the peninsula into the Great Lakes; and the US States of Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa and Winsconsin. These are the only claims Sweden has in the world.Swedish_NA_Claim.png
 * I already own a part of Winsconsin.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 07:06, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll take the western half then. Scandinator (talk) 06:42, May 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * This still is too little.How about all of nebraska and western halves of North and South Dakota?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 08:06, May 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * You must understand this is Sweden's only operating colonial area in the world. You have Africa and South America. I only have North America now.
 * I understand.given the map that i was talking about, i am willing to give up my claims on the territory that i was talking about, except for Winsconsin.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 11:05, May 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Deal. Scandinator (talk) 05:12, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Russia would never agree to any claim giving their territory to Sweden. Russia's been in Alaska and the rest of North America for as long as Sweden has, you can't just demand they give you their claims.  LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:11, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam:

 * Vietnam's claims to North America were ended after Collie expanded Newfoundland to the Great Lakes, and Kanada declared independance.
 * New Taihoku (Taiwan's North America colony)- As much of mainland BC as they can get.

Greece:

 * Claims to all unclaimed Minnesota, OTL North and South dakota, and all Nebraska north of the North Platte River.To understand better, see this map: --Collie Kaltenbrunner 14:50, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Newfoundland

 * All of unoccupied Labrador peninsula.

Seminole

 * The former itsaygahian states that have a coast on the atlantic sea, the one that borders Novorossiya and the one with a coast on the Great Lakes.

Isloque

 * The rest of the former Itsaygahi.

South America
Starting map for South America. Please do not post new maps until it has been confirmed what your claims will be. The present condition of how South America stands.

Calora

 * Will expand inward into South America until it is the width of the Hungarian colony. However, as this is somewhat expanding into Brandenburgian claimed lands, they will pay Brandenburg a fee for this, and they will always help Neue Brandenburg in any wars if they are able and they will never fight against them.

USA:

 * Claims most of OTL Columbia

Finland

 * Finnish colony of Käwäshiro claims sliced parts of OTL Eastern Colombia, all of OTL Venezuela, and parts of OTL Brazil (that border Venezuela, and bit more into OTL Brazil itself but not too much, just more slices)

Onguayal

 * Onguayal claims will be for it and Manoa. It claims most of Northern and Western Brazil already not occupied.

Uruguay

 * All of OTL Argentina, Bolivia and Paraguay which are still not occupied.

Hungary

 * Magyar Dél-Amerikaban:Territory of OTL Rio Grande do Sul, Paraná, Santa Catarina and Right to attack and conquer both Jê nations.

Persia

 * Most of Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Venezula, and Colombia (not the places already claimed though).

Incan Colombin Republic

 * TRUE_BORDERS.png of OTL Brazil not occupied, but since no one has updated my borders for 5 decades+ now, i own at least 1/4 of unclaimed Brazil, I also claim the Incan homeland, which I doubt will be reatekn, but I do wish for the Vuzco region, a 20 mile radius around Cuzco extending to unclaimed Brazil. Here is the ICR's REAL BORDERS AS A RESULT OF OVER 60 YEARS OF EXPANSION and no one has updated them on the map, which is insulting.
 * Dean, 65,500 sq km is only 1310 pixels on the map. That is your true area, 1310 pixels. The one on the map would be like 1.5 million sq km. ~Imp

France

 * The coast between both hanthawaddian colonies, that little state near the japanese colony and an extension that allow the colony to have a border with the vassal of Onguayal.
 * That isn't a Nipponese colony anymore, it declared independence and is the USA, who have already claimed most of OTL Columbia, which includes that little state. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:29, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * I knew it was independent, I don't know why I put "colony". Anyway then, I claim the territory until I reach that state, you can keep that.
 * Fine by me VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 10:50, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam

 * Vietnam's South America colony claims the territory of the three OTL Guyana colonies.
 * New Ruthenia (New Lithuania's South America colony)- a thick strip of territory from Vietnam's South America colony to Persia's.
 * New Tainan (Taiwan's South America colony)- The unnannexed area in between Uruguay and the Chinese Incan colony.
 * Are you talking about Fjordlaand? Thats a former Swedish colony.

Neue Brandenburg

 * All of northern OTL Brazil not already colonized (I would be willing to divide it with ICR, but I think native states should be able to get preferance over nations with a power base elsewhere).Zagoria 04:45, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Africa
Starting map for Africa. Please do not post new maps until it has been confirmed what your claims will be. The present condition of how Africa stands.

Dravidia

 * The Congo basin (OTL Democratic Republic of the Congo) plus having the sole rights to attack and conquer Ndongo (the nation to the South of Kongo) and the remains of the Kongo nation

Persia

 * Angola, Zambia, Southern Congo, Mozambique

Istoias

 * All of the island of OTL Madagascar.

Hungary

 * Namib: The territory between Namib and that southern gray nation (south of Ndongo), and the sole rights to attack and said gray nation.
 * Ezsák-Afrika: all the territory separating Oroszlán (the colony located on OTL Sierra Leone) from that colony on OTL Guinea-Bissauan territory, and some territory on northern Mauritania.
 * Dél-Afrika: OTL Orange Free State and Transvaal, sole rights to attack and conquer Zululand and Lesotho.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 15:06, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam
Yank 18:22, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * East Africa- South Swahili kingdom, the various African states west of that kingdom, and the African nation directly west of Vietnam's East African colony as it stands today. As well as all the territory in between.
 * Kenia- Bale, Puntland, and the unclaimed OTL Eithiopian and Somali territory. Claims Eithiopia and Sennar as client states (will do so next turn).
 * New Samogita (New Lithuania's Africa colony)- OTL Equatorial Guinea and Gabon.

Bharat

 * Bharat claims OTL Nigeria and Niger and the uncivilized land in the interior which no nation has managed to get their hands on.

Russia

 * South-West and South Africa, Kongo Nations.(south africa, nambia, botsawana, Angola(Unclaimed), West half of Dem. Rep. of Congo, westernmost Zambia
 * Dravidia already has a colony that has taken much of Kongo, and it is about to take over Ndongo. You can take the ones to the north, but not into the Congo basin.

France

 * The territory between Nouvelle-Gascogne and the korean colony in the south, and territory enough to expand the rest opf the swahili lands, the two african states that would border that territory, and a half of the state that has a coast in the Malawi Lake, and the west coast of that lake.
 * The six states in the north of Songhay, Akon would expand until it borders Guinée, and Ginée would absorb the six states east of it.
 * France-Bharat_Africa_Deal_(PM).pngBharat has already claimed the "6 state" area.
 * I'm not talking about that six states, I'm talking about the small ones near Songhay, the colony I already have there.
 * I think that is OTL Nigeria, and I have already claimed it. Looks at Bharat's claims for Africa.
 * I already ahve colonies in that territory, you don't, I think my claim is stronger. If you want a post there, may be I can give you the bigest state and some more land, around the size of OTL Cote d'Ivoire and Togo?
 * I already have a colony in the area. I have map to see if we both can agree on the borders.
 * You have a colony there? Then it msut be recent, as it doesn't show in the map. Anyway, I have two colonies, both old and with a long history, and a vassal, and historical claims in the region. Sya me what your current colony is and I'll make another map of my proposed borders.
 * Well, ou can ahve that you showed in the map, but the rest is mine (France, Caliphate or Seminole), as I claimed above.

Spain

 * Spain claims OTL Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Morocco

Seminole

 * The state that was formed fromt he former itsaygahian colony and vassals would beocme a seminole protectorate.

Arabia

 * Adal will absorb the former UAA states, and expand until it borders the big state south of Egypt (if Egypt doesn't claims it, then I'll absorb it) and Kenia.
 * Absorb is probably not the right term to use, since Ethiopia Senar, and Bale are very anti-Islamist and won't go down without a full-out war.
 * Ok, "absorb" isn't the right term, but I still claim those lands.
 * I'm thinking on making Ethiopia proper a vassal. i didn't claimed here because i didn't had a idea of how to put it here.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 07:14, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * And do you think that Vietnam will allow Adal to touch their client state? They'd sooner start a war than allow that.
 * You claim the unclaimed somalian territory and Puntland, so you'd be bordering Adal anyway, your objection doesn't make sense. I have been more time in that lands, and, from the three of us, I'm the one who has dedicated more time into the state I have there. Egypt hardly makes any move, and Kenia isn't that old as vassal of Vietnam. I've always worked hard in the Caliphate and its policy, so it is a more developed antion than Egypt or Kenia, and colonial expansionist, so it makes sense to me that they be the ones who take that lands.
 * To be fair, both Ethiopia and Bale and Sennar will much greatly favor Vietnam than the Caliphate, as they hate Muslims. Furthermore, Vietnam has already shown interest in Bale, which your nation hasn't. Also, Galaguerra, you are lying about the situation, as Kenia was a Vietnam vassal for many years prior to the Arabians vassalizing Adal, and Kenia has been expanding a great deal, so you cannot say they are not expansionist. Vietnam also made their claims first in this conference. All of my nations are going to back Vietnam in this conference because they clearly have a stronger claim in this area.
 * Bale is a former UAA state? I really thought it was the southern swahili kingdom that you wanted. In any way, I wasn't talikng about Adal's influence in the region, as I have been trying to influenciate the reigon since the UAA's fall, and also when the UAA existed, spreading muslim propaganda when it was in disarray. If you want so much that lands, then we just divide them, the north state for me, the southern for you, and we split the two in halfway. There's still th eproblem that they hate muslims, but are the governments. I rembemr one of those states was a persian vassal (I think), and their neighboors of the muslim sphere of influence, so at least there msut be a muslim faction in them.
 * None of those states was a Persian vassal. Ethiopia was mostly Ethiopian Orthodox save for a Schmittist minority which was destroyed and driven away. Any Muslims would have fled too Makuria and Sudan (which Makuria defeated and absorbed) were Muslim mostly, and any Christians were converted or fled. Sennar was part Muslim and part Christian, the Muslim part joined Makuria and the Christian part is independent, any minorities in those areas switched halves. Bale followed traditional religions when they first got absorbed by the UAA, and then were converted to Christian. Adal was Muslim, and Puntland is.
 * Fine, keep it, but then I'll keep the black territory in OTL Ethiopia and the two states on Somalia (ones is puntland, what is the other?)
 * The small one is called Aden, it was half Yemenese, half Ethiopian.
 * Algeria will expand until it border Morocco and absorbs the four states not absorbed by France, so I let space enough to Canariae to expand, at least he wants not to expand (If he doesn't wants that territory, I'll take it).
 * Libya will expand to absorb the two remaining west africans tates until it reaches the border of the current hanthawaddian colony and all in rect line.
 * Nouvelle-Patagonie will keep its current size, except there's any unclaimed territory availible to be claimed.

Brunei

 * OTL Mauritius, Reunion, and the Seychelles.

Oceania
Wasn't this already all sorted out in the Rotterdam Conference? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:18, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I think so, but Collie put it in so I think you should ask him. :P Imperium Guy 13:25, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we just need to update the Rotterdam map to show the changes to all that since the Nippon-Hanthawaddy war and the whole Mesheryakovist wars business. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:43, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

If were discussing this again, I'd like to say that Finland has the same claims as in the Rotterdam Conference (and this also extends to the Shogunate of Kōshi, they claim all of the OTL Sulawesi island and small islands around and off the Sulawesi Island) -Kogasa 13:54, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Didnt we already do north america in St Petersburg?-Lx (leave me a message) 12:10, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I could not find any reference to the St Petersburg Conference anywhere. :/ Imperium Guy 13:25, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

It's here. -Kogasa 13:29, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Oh thanks Kogasa! :D Imperium Guy 13:32, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

That conference was a while ago, however, and some nations with territory claimed there have dropped out, and the claims aren't being followed in any case. LurkerLordB (Talk) 13:35, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Just put in some claims. Is this good? RandomWriterGuy 23:43, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Also sweden was not able to take part in the St Petersburg Conference due to a state of war between Russia and Sweden. The Conference seemed to be started to piss off the Swedish as Russia was able to claim large areas of the Swedish claim with no opposition. Scandinator (talk) 23:49, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

LOLWUT, Sweden got huge portions of territory, next to Russia they had the largest amount of unclaimed territory of anyone. LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:09, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

Editing past turns
Seriously everyone, if there is a new turn up, edit that one instead. There will always be an active turn at the bottom of the page, so you should never have to edit a past turn. I'm sorry if you like going at the very end so you can reply to everyone, but you know, someone has to go first, and you can reply to the events at the beginning of the next turn. I'm just going to start to undo edits to past turns other than moderators cancelling some implausibility we missed or someone fixing spelling. Again, to repeat, there will never be a situation in which there is not an active turn at the bottom of the page. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:28, April 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * You've certainly got my support on this matter lurk, its bloomin' annoying because its got potential to ruin everything what is going on in the current turn. Then to make matters worse, they still don't notice everything else the rest of us posted! ¬.¬ VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:33, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Peninsular Pahang
I just realized this, but the mainland portion of Pahang is still the color of Hungary, when the union with Hungary is broken and Italy controls it directly now. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:47, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

And i have just realized this as well. i will correct it.--Collie Kaltenbrunner 20:27, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Dravidia

 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 18 (Dravidia (L), Bharat (M), Jaffna (MV), Kerala (MV), Bihar (MV), Orissa (MV), Onguayal (MV), Manoa (MVV))
 * Motive: 5
 * Expansion: -0
 * Military Expansion: 3
 * Puppet States: -0
 * Chance: 3917/48*pi =256.36
 * Editcount = 3917
 * Time:2*3*8 =48
 * Stability: 3.3^1.25/1.25^3.3*2.5*8=42
 * Total: 77

Ndongo

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 4(Ndongo (L))
 * Puppet States: -0
 * Motive: 10
 * Expansion: -0
 * Military Expansion: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Stability: 32.8^1.25/1.25^32.8*2.5*7=1
 * Total: 26

Result
Dravidian victory, Dravidia can take ((77/77+26)*2)-1=50% of the nation of Ndongo at best. The war is going to last two years, so that makes (.50)*(1-1/(2*2))=38%, enough to topple the government of Ndongo easily.

Discussion
Imperium Guy told me that Bharat would send aid. If forget what their vassals' names are. LurkerLordB (Talk) 03:04, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

I did promise. I gave them their proper names and sent more aid in the form of Onguayal and Manoa. I also reworkedthe results and they only make it go more in your favour. :D Imperium Guy 12:59, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Bharat

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 29 (Bharat (L), Dravidia (M), Jaffna (MV), Bihar (MV), Orissa (MV), Kerala (MV), Onguayal (MV), Manoa (MVV), Vietnam (M), Kenia (MV), Kazami (M), Koshi (M))
 * Military: 15
 * Expansion: 0
 * Stablity:
 * Chance: 9
 * Time: 23:54 = 120
 * Editcount: 7864
 * (7863/120)*pi = 205.87 9 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Total: 69+stability

Persia

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 15 (Persia (L), Yemen (MV), Caliphate (M), Adal (MV), UJE (MV), Sokotara (MV))
 * Military:
 * Expansion: 0
 * Stablity:
 * Chance: 9
 * Time: 04:55 = 100
 * Editcount: 4484
 * (4484/100)*pi = 140.86 9 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Total:39+stability+military expansion

Result
TBD

Discussion
How this started?--Collie Kaltenbrunner 15:45, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

This started in 1883. I invaded Persia to rid it of the Capilate and protect the eastern hindus. Imperium Guy 07:54, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Should Persia be counted as the leader? I mean, they're jsut surrendering to Bharat, is the Caliphate which is fighting to keep the country in the union. Maybe this should be treated like the swedish succession war, so I have the help of the muslim factions and Bharat has the help of the hindu factions in Persia. If Bharat wins, I'd like to keep the muslim part of Persia, as it wuld be too hard to control for the hindu government anyway. It could become a vassal of mine or just be still controled by RWG, so he'd control two persian states, the one in union with Bharat, and the one in union with the Caliphate. --Galaguerra1 16:50, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, here is what I will get from Persia. I will annex the eastern portion and have a puppet government while you keep the western portion as they are too fundamentalist to convert. I think RWG have a hard time editing two Persias, lol. :D Imperium Guy 20:16, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

There's only one thing that Vietnam wants. They want to annex Adal and the unclaimed areas in between to Kenia. They have no other territorial ambitions.

Yank 22:18, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

This sin't a war agains thte Caliphate, but Persia. This isn't even an algorithmic war as RWG already decided that Bharat was going to win. I should keep Yemen as a vassal of my own as they are surely muslims. --Galaguerra1 03:20, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

If RWG wants me to win, then I think I'll get all of Persia and push the Capilate out in its entirety. :P Imperium Guy 07:54, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

But its implausible. Persia would break into muslim rebellions. Is best to give me the muslim lands (at least the oens you can disregard). About the religious and cultural policy, RWG hasn't done anything in the game but implausibilities. I hope he's wise enough to give me this. --Galaguerra1 17:20, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

There should be consequences for every nation fighting on the losing side.

Yank 20:10, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Yank. :/ Imperium Guy 21:20, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

That's not how the system works. We must do the most plausible thing, and I still think that this is gonna be troubeling for Persia in general. I've already lost this war, I have no problem while I don't lose any land (or claiming), I just think that the most plausible thing is to give me that territory. --Galaguerra1 21:37, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

If all of Persia joins Bharat, large portions of it will break away in moderator revolts. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:02, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

I have changed my government. These problems should not occur. Also, Persia is not fighting Bharat. They are trying to rid of themselves from the union. It should be the Calpihate Bharat should be declaring war on! RandomWriterGuy 23:19, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

I've asked for peace, and also offered a way out from the colonization problem with Vietnam. I hope we can be in peace now. But, RWG, I must say that have a liberal government won't do anything but turn the things worst, as the muslims (still a majority) are fundamentalists. I suggest you to create an independent country, that would be fundamentalist, but still under your control (not like a vassal, but like the way we control our former coloneis in America that are now independent), and a small state in the province of Kashimir that would remain in union with Bharat. That's the only way you won't lose territory.--Galaguerra1 01:27, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

RWG, you could have your government at the highest stability it could be at and having such a large fundamentalist Muslim area falling under a very strongly Hindu government would result in revolts. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:36, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

I am willing to give the Capilate the western portion of Persia to keep in their dynastical union while the eastern will become part of Bharat in a dynastical union as well. There map here says how Persia will turn out. West Persia will become a muslim state while east Persia will become a hindu state. Deal? Imperium Guy 11:55, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'd agree. though you should talk RWG about this, as you're planning to take territory not just as a union, but directly, form Persia. --Galaguerra1 16:32, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Being split is really the only option for Persia at this point I'm afraid, they have a huge religious divide at this point. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:16, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

So does this go through? :/ Imperium Guy 21:30, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

I am not agreeing with all of this! No divided country at all! I will give Hindus equqal rights so that the split does not occur! RandomWriterGuy 22:05, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Your nation is quite literally in civil war over religion right now, they aren't going to trust each other to stay united. If you had posted something in response to other people's posts and not ignoring them, a problem of yours that you need to address, then you could have given one side a major advantage. Perhaps, if you only give up some territories to Bharat (like half of what would break away), you could keep control if you didn't join with the Caliphate (or, vise versa, give the caliphate a few territories and then manage to keep control of the rest of your nation if you didn't have Dynastic union with Bharat) but jumping between dynasties of opposing religions creates this sort of situation. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:13, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

How about giving Hindus some rights then? RandomWriterGuy 23:04, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Kazakh Revolt discussion (moved from main page)
I am very pleased to see that this is what I had an edit conflict with...and I mean that in a very sarcastic way. I try to post my response only for it to be in an edit conflict with "russia has more revolts becasue we did not respond to kazakhstan!" I come on to try to fix the kazakhstan thing(they were a seperate nation that I let do anything they wanted and treated very good, i dont understand why they would protest in the first place, especialy with much "russia is good" propaganda everywhere, also with the troops they send consisting almost always of volunteers), and my edit is in conflict with other minorities, to witch I have granted many rights, to come out in protest. that make no sense, especialy since russia has a very good track record of not having many protests or revolts in russia(during this time frame, there were only 3 major ones as i recall, 1905 revolution(witch was becasue everyone wanted contitution), the revolutioin of 1917 and the small pugachev insident. -Lx

You didn't respond for three turns to the Kazahk revolts, not counting the time you responded after the turn was up. In any case, your current edit was done past the time, and as was announced on the talk page, I am going to start enforcing this rule. You had several turns before this to protest any implausibility or unfairness of the revolts. Furthermore, multiple nations have been encouraging revolts and sending propaganda into Kazahkstan The event stands, and your late post has been deleted as per the rules and the announcement. If you are on the wiki now, why are you not editting this turn, as it is currently active? -LLB

I dont realy like editing before mod events becasue I want to react to them, and I dislike missing turns. And My post was in edit conflict with a mod event. simple. I assume that by this time tommorow, there will be a mod event for the turn, so that I can edit, this one happened to be early. that is one reason i edit later, i cant realy go on untill perhaps 7:30 or 8:00 most of the time for extended periods of time and i want to reply ot mod events, that dont usualy get posted at the begining. I gave powers to the Governates of russia, I gave them power over ceratin aspects of eduction(language) and culture, what else do you want me to do???? massacre them to instill fearful obediance??? from my 1880 post(the first mention of kazakh minor revolts):"Russia sends out anti-Persian-union Propaganda and propaganda that views the russians as the harbingers of freedom and democracy to the people of Kazakhstan, with the small price of having to support russia's military at all costs." I did respond to the situation, and in 1883 felt the need to remind that I actualy did respond to the situation. -Lx

'''Generally, I put up events soon after or with the heading. You should edit whatever turn is active at the time. If Scandinator puts up some event later than the main ones come up, you could always respond the next turn (before the next wave of moderator events come up, so I'd see your response below and factor that in). Just because Kazakhstan revolted now doesn't mean that war is the only option, if you send counter-propaganda you could probably cause people who are Christian or moderate Muslim or otherwise Russified to revolt from the Kazakhs and regain part of Kazakhstan, at least the northern half -LLB'''

Look, I gave them the south in my other post that got deleted. I already got into a rythm of at around 8-10(1-3 hours after UTC 00:00 depending on the DST) to edit because mod events werent always posted right when the year started, and generaly, that was the leniancy with witch you were able since when i started playing, it will probably take a week or so to ajust. and I wouldnt think that the no edit would be this "nothing after 00:00" and whoever posted the mod event where large scale revolts happened, "they will fight to the death" kind of implied that if I dont go to war, they will seperate, so it was in a way implied that war was the only option. I dont want to leave the things I edited for this turn, and, please, just put this stuff in the talk page so that it doesnt clutter up the space where people post their turns...i dont want them to be dragged into my issues. -Lx

They swear they will fight to the death, but that doesn't mean that they all will be unified. You can keep your post this one time, and I will be more lenient this week as long as your posts don't contradict anything posted. -LLB

May I have Kazakhstan? RandomWriterGuy 03:02, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Inactivity Notice
My activity may be a bit patchy during the month of May. My Grandmother recently died and I've got all sorts of funeral business to attend to in addition to finals. CrimsonAssassin 03:44, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

I may also be less active due to exam revision too <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:10, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Me three. I am starting to get shedloads of homework. :/ Imperium Guy 21:14, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Ahh I have no homework because of ISTEP+ testing :) I love ISTEP. Easy, and no homework :) PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:18, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Map Issues
Istoias now controls the entire coastline of Madagascar. Also, the Swiss-French land sale and the change in borders between Italy and Switzerland makes the map look like this:

LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:21, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, and there is another state in Australia between the Bharati colony and the Kingdom of Australia. :P Imperium Guy 21:29, May 2, 2012 (UTC)