Talk:The Ashes of Rome (Map Game)

is there an algo for this game? Spartian300 (talk) 11:20, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Algo
I've been working off of a sort of unofficial amalgamation of several different algos, but if someone is willing to write one for the game, and be an Algo mod, that would be fantastic.

Knoxmoor (talk) 15:20, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

I have something that might work out.

Stability: +1 to whichever side is more stable. For example, nations that are multiple tribes or have newly conquered land will be often slightly less stable then their counterparts.

Size: + to whichever side has the most troops. The score will be made based on how big the difference is. For example, if one side has 1000 men, and the other has 10,000, the score for the bigger side is 1+10.

Weapons: +! to whichever side has the best weapons, and by how many there are.

Motive:

Terrain:

Population:

Economy:

Fronts:

War supported?:

It's a work in progess, but it's a start.

Spartian300 (talk) 22:42, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

If you're willing to work on this, I think it would be great. Also, be sure to include things like number of fronts, satisfaction, political situation.

Knoxmoor (talk) 22:54, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Gotcha Spartian300 (talk) 08:30, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

I have another Idea for this. Flashbadgerpro here. Talk to me here : http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:flashbadgerpro

We could factor in a couple more things when war occurs, such as

1) War Exhasution

2) Technology

(Ie : are they more or less advanced than there foe? We should probably implement values for this)

3) Army size

(Not the country's population, but the military size. Countries could have a small population but all of it could be in the military.)

4) Army Composition

(Are the country's units all horseman? All cannons? A mixed composition should be ideal.)

5) Defensiveness of cities

6) General / Combat Leader's ability.

(Is there even a leader? If not, than the army should be penalized)

7) Religion

Does the religion create zealots or martyrs who are willing to do whatever it takes for their faith? That would boost the military's power for sure.

8) Tradde power.

Can nations afford mercenaries and their materials through trade?

9) Tradition

Have they been succesful previously? That should factor into the chance of winning or losing.

10) Government Type

Does the government want a war to occur?

ALSO : we should add in allies to warfare, and make these values manipulatable by the players.

Those sound promising.

Knoxmoor (talk) 05:01, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

War of Frankish Aggression
Neustria

Stability: -2

Size: -1 (facing two fronts)

Weapons: +3

Motive: +5

Terrain: +5

Population: +2

Economy: -4 (Franks just spilt into two kingdoms)

Fronts: 0 for Neustria,

War supported?: Yes, +9

Score: 17



Burgundy
Stability: +1

Size: +1

Weapons: +1

Motive: +5

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Terrain: -1

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Population: +1

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Economy: +5

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Fronts: 0

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">War supported?: Yes, +5

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Score: 18

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Result: Burgundy barely defeats the Neuastrians

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Okay, so I need some scores for the nations for this to work. Spartian300 (talk) 08:44, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Before we completely put the algo into action, we should come up with the range for certain scores, and what each score signifies (i.e. what constitutes a 5 motive as opposed to a 9, and what the range for economy would be, etc...)

<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Knoxmoor (talk) 15:01, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

west slavic confederacy
total: 22
 * stability: +1
 * size: +1
 * weapons: +3
 * motive: +5
 * terrain: -1
 * population: +2
 * economy: +2(functioning well)
 * fronts: 0
 * war supported: yes, +9

Lombard
total: 16
 * stability: -2
 * size: -1
 * weapons: +1
 * motive: +5
 * terrain: +5
 * economy: +1(functioning)
 * fronts: 0
 * war supported: yes, +5

result
the West slavic confederacy collapses/takes territory from the Lombard tribes. NOTE: i will need mods to check this algo. i don't know this algo 100% but I've seen similar algos before, so my result should be about right. Keep in mind, the Goths are also pushing through lombard territory to combat the Slavs. Honestly, I feel like we should hold off a little bit on using this algo, because I feel like it can be developed a little bit more, and some of the categories require an explanation, to some extent, of what each number means.
 * regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  14:37, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Knoxmoor (talk) 16:09, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

i did account for the goths in this algo. also, there is an algo on the map games wikia that i think could be used for this game, with some modification. i will look into the algo if you want. regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  20:36, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Question
Knoxmoor which Nation are you playing as? Wrto12 (talk) 07:01, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not playing as a nation, just because I'm worried that, if I played as a nation, I would be subconsciously biased towards it, even if I didn't realize it.

Knoxmoor (talk) 17:31, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

mods
i feel like there should be a place were mods can sign up, or at the very least a list of mods, somewhere on the page. regards, <font color="Navy">Agent  <font color="Red">of Doom

While I support the notion of multiple mods in theory, I have seen too many Map Games flounder due to mod infighting, and have witnessed an unbelievable amount of mod self-bias. This self bias, whether intentional or subconscious, is the main reason I have chosen not to play as a nation in my own game, and it is also the reason why I am the only mod. If people would like to be mods, but not participate as a nation in the game, I can totally get behind that, in fact, it would take quite a burden off of me. I'm very reluctant to allow people playing as nations to be mods, but that does not mean it's out of the realm of possibility...

Knoxmoor (talk) 03:55, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I actually agree with Knoxmoor. Of all the map games I've played, this one has lasted the longest and had the least amount of arguments about plausibilty or ASB bullshit. I think having a monarch mod is the best course of action for this games survival. Afunnymouth (talk) 20:41, August 11, 2015 (UTC)Afunnymouth

Amount of years per turn
I think 1 turn should be 2 years in 1200 and 1 year in 1400 till the end. What do u think? Awesome history 28 (talk) 12:18, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I totally agree. Wonderful suggestion. I will include that in the rules page so that people are aware.

Knoxmoor (talk) 15:33, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

in addition, i think ifwe get to 1950(unlikly) turns should be half years

Regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  21:58, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. How about 1900? Awesome history 28 (talk) 11:38, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Algo proposal
here is an algo i have edited for this game. if accepted, it should take effect next turn


 * Size of the armies: The bigger army gains +1 point.
 * Economy: The nation with a bigger economy gains +1 point.
 * war exhaustion: The nation with less war exhaustion gains +1 point.
 * This refers to the nation that has had less wars in the past 10 turns
 * Battlefield: The nation who can take more advantage from the battlefield gains +1 point.
 * Defending: The nation who defends its homeland gains +1 point.
 * Supports: The nation who is supported by a foreign country (not one in the war!) will gain points for each supporting country.
 * +1 for military aid
 * +.5 for economic aid
 * Luck: A random number will be generated by random.org. The winner gains +1 point.
 * The RNG will be from 1-10, attacker is evens, defender is odds
 * Morale: The nation who won last turn gains +1 point.
 * Fortifications: The nation whose front-line is more fortified gains +1 point (optional).
 * If a fortified city is being attacked, the defender gains +2 points
 * NOTE: it must be stated clearly in turns if a city is fortified, and there must be a plausible reason as to why the battle is taking place at said city.
 * Air support: The nation who has better air support gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * Tank support: The nation who has better tanks gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * Agricultural output: The nation with more Agricultural output gains +1 point
 * vassals: for each vassal, a nation will gain points
 * +1 for a loyal vassal
 * +.5 for a new/unstable vassal
 * -1 for a rebellious vassal

regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  21:58, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I love your proposal. Very simple, yet largely encompassing. I'm going to run a few trials with it, to see how plausable the results seem, and if they do, I will institute it.

Knoxmoor (talk) 23:01, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Quick question about the Algo. When dealing with one nation who is fighting two nations, do you run the scores of the two belligerent nations seperatly, or add them together?

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:34, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

together regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  22:02, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

I propose to add another factor to the algo. An expanding nation is stronger than one that is idle. Sometimes in history even an expanding nation 10 times smaller will win. Example, Cortez and the Mongols. Even technologically inferior barbarians can bring down idle empires. +1 if the nation has expanded for 2 or more previous terms. EvilAlien1 (talk) 20:44, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

thats... just no. if anything i would add a -1 penalty for expanding. the reason is, if you expand, you have new people to deal with, who don't like you, or your empire.

regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  14:34, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

update 2.0

I don't think It should be +1 for " battlefield is similar to home environment +1 attacker", as in this case, the battlefield would be similar to home for one nation and would actually be home to the other. Maybe a +0 as opposed to a -1 if the battlefiend isnt similar to home environment. Afunnymouth (talk) 20:47, August 11, 2015 (UTC)Afunnymouth
 * Size of the armies: The bigger army gains +1 point.
 * If the army is twice as big the bigger army gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more troops than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Military Tech Level: the nation with the better military tech gains +1 point
 * Economy: The nation with a bigger economy gains +1 point.
 * War exhaustion: The nation with less war exhaustion gains +1 point.
 * if A nation has fought no wars within the past 25 turns, that nation gains +1.5 points
 * This refers to the nation that has had less wars in the past 10 turns
 * Battlefield: The nation who can take more advantage from the battlefield gains points
 * Battlefield is island +1.5 to defender
 * Battlefield is mountin +1 defender
 * battlefield is forest +.5 to defender
 * battlefield is desert/arctic +.5 defender
 * battlefield is open plains +1 attacker
 * battlefield is similar to home environment +1 attacker
 * Defending: The nation who defends its homeland gains +1 point.
 * Support: The nation who is supported by a foreign country (not one in the war!) will gain points for each supporting country.
 * +1 for military aid
 * +.5 for economic aid
 * Luck: A random number will be generated by random.org. The winner gains +1 point.
 * the RNG will be from 1-10, attacker is evens, defender is odds
 * Morale: The nation who won last turn gains +1 point.
 * if a nation won the last 2 turns, +1.5, if the nation won the last 3, +2, if 4 +2.5 etc, etc
 * Only applies if the same two nations fought last turn.
 * NOTE: these will be modified as the game has less years per turn
 * Fortifications: The nation whose front-line is more fortified gains +1 point
 * If a fortified city is being attacked, the defender gains +2 points
 * NOTE: it must be stated clearly in turns if a city is fortified, and there must be a plausible reason as to why the battle is taking place at said city.
 * Air support: The nation who has better air support gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * If one army has twice the planes as the other, the army with more planes gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more planes than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Tank support: The nation who has better tanks gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * If one army has twice the tanks as the other, the army with more tanks gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more tanks than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Ship support: The nation who has better ship support gains +1 point. (when applicable)
 * If one army has twice the ships as the other, the army with more ships gains +1.5 points, and +.5 points is given for each order of magnitude
 * Example: Nation A has 5x more ships than Nation B. Nation A gains +3 points
 * Agricultural output: The nation with more Agricultural output gains +1 point
 * vassals: for each vassal, a nation will gain points
 * +1 for a loyal vassal
 * +.5 for a new/unstable vassal
 * -1 for a rebellious vassal
 * Fronts: for every front after the first, the nation will lose -1 point

chinese and asian nations
I would like to play as the current ruling dynasty in china, if possible. regards~Tao64

Perfect timing. I plan on adding the Chines dynasties the following turn.

Knoxmoor (talk) 23:01, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Where are they right now? ~Tao64 PS reserve them plz

Don't worry, they will show up at 22:00 UTC. Get here quickly to grab one.

YES I got probably the strongest one.~Tao64

The Imperial league
I have made a page for the imperial league, for us to keep track of members, pass resolutions and ohter stuff like that. heres a link: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Imperial_league_%28The_Ashes_of_Rome_Map_Game%29

test algo
this is an algo for the west slav war against the celts. seeing as this algo is not official yet, knox can retrcon it if it is unplausable.


 * Size of the armies: The bigger army gains +1 point. +1 point, west Slavs
 * Economy: The nation with a bigger economy gains +1 point. +1 point, West Slavs
 * war exhaustion: The nation with less war exhaustion gains +1 point. +1 point, West Slavs
 * This refers to the nation that has had less wars in the past 10 turns
 * Battlefield: The nation who can take more advantage from the battlefield gains +1 point.+1 point, Celts
 * Defending: The nation who defends its homeland gains +1 point. +1 Point, celts
 * Supports: The nation who is supported by a foreign country (not one in the war!) will gain points for each supporting country. N/A(for now)
 * +1 for military aid
 * +.5 for economic aid
 * Luck: A random number will be generated by random.org. The winner gains +1 point. result, 8 +1 point, West Slavs
 * The RNG will be from 1-10, attacker is evens, defender is odds
 * Morale: The nation who won last turn gains +1 point. N/A
 * Fortifications: The nation whose front-line is more fortified gains +1 point (optional). +1 Point, Celts
 * If a fortified city is being attacked, the defender gains +2 points
 * NOTE: it must be stated clearly in turns if a city is fortified, and there must be a plausible reason as to why the battle is taking place at said city.
 * Air support: The nation who has better air support gains +1 point. (when applicable) N/A
 * Tank support: The nation who has better tanks gains +1 point. (when applicable) N/A
 * Agricultural output: The nation with more Agricultural output gains +1 point +1 point, West slavs
 * vassals: for each vassal, a nation will gain points N/A
 * +1 for a loyal vassal
 * +.5 for a new/unstable vassal
 * -1 for a rebellious vassal

West Slavic Confederation 5-3 Celtic league

Yeah...I've run a few tests on the algo using different scenarios, and it seems plausible about 50% of the time, which honestly, I think means it needs a bit of modification. I feel like the algo plays down army size and military technology a bit too much, and then plays up other factors. For example, in this situation, the Slavs would be attacking a nation situated on an island, and the Slavs don't exactly have the better navy. So I'm gonna say hold off on using this algo for now, but feel free to keep developing it. If you come up with one that seems to work the majority of the time, by all means, we will use it, and you could be Algo Mod if you'd like to.

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:37, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I will Make the needed modifications, and i would love to be the algo mod. As a side note, if there is no algo for this war, i think it would be plausible for the Celts to lose, as both me and the Carthaginians are attacking them. I think the algo will be done by tomorrow.

regards, <font color="Navy">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  19:55, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, the Celts will have some problems for sure.

Knoxmoor (talk) 20:10, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that "war exaustion" should refer the nation who has been to war the most in the past 10 turns, because 10 turns amounts to 50 years, and the nation with a lot of war in the past 50 years would have way more experience.

Maps
Shall I make a map page for this? Awesome history 28 (talk) 19:04, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

That would be splendid.

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:33, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, here it is; Maps (The Ashes of Rome). Awesome history 28 (talk) 17:01, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Invasion of Kalachuri by the Gupta empire.
Gupta

stability: +1

size: +1

weapons: +0

motive: +2

terrain: -1

population: +1

economy: +1

commander:+2

fronts: 0

fortifications: +0

morale: +1

vassals: +0.5

does the government want a war to occur? yes: +1

random number: (4) +1

total: 10.5

Kalachuri

stability: +1

size: -1

weapons: +0

motive: +2

population: +1

terrain: +1

economy: +1

commander:+1

fronts: 0

fortifications: +1

morale: +0

vassals: +0

does the government want a war to occur? no: -1

random number: (3) +0

total: 6

Leaving
I'm leaving the game due to a lot of exams and school work. Not sure if i can come back but feel free to erase my name on the Byzantine Empire Erizium (talk)

It's been a pleasure. Hope you can come back and rejoin us at some point.

Knoxmoor (talk) 19:21, August 12, 2015 (UTC)

yeah, im sorry, but i will have to do the same, becasue right now i am to caught up in other stuff to play. its been fun, Regards, <font color="Red">Agent <font color="Red">of Doom  20:50, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Awwwww. Man. Later dude, sorry you gotta go. It was fun rekkin u in Lombard :pAfunnymouth (talk) 07:13, August 14, 2015 (UTC)

New
I'm new to this, and I'm a little lost. Do I read through the timeline and then pick an unclaimed nation and like write a story about what I do next? . -Snoopdigdogg11


 * Write a description of what your country does that turn, basically. Also, you might want to log into your account, or make one if you do not have one. –Alexander 22:27, August 13, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll make an account when I get the chance. I already put my name down for Ganga, but I think I want to change. Is that okay? - Snoopdigdogg11
 * That's fine. You haven't posted yet so that doesn't even count as a random switch. Hope you enjoy the map game, I'm sure you catch on quickly.
 * Knoxmoor (talk) 05:26, August 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Imade an edit. Tell me if I did anything wrong. Also that was a good read. - snoopdigdogg11
 * It looks great. Keep it up.
 * Knoxmoor (talk) 16:07, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Knoxmoor (talk) 16:07, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Korea
Could I play as Sillia? Candiesrgood (talk) 07:29, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Of course you can.

Knoxmoor (talk) 16:07, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Overexpansion
I think the Persian empire is overexpanding? Candiesrgood (talk) 11:53, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Archives
I tried editing, and for some reason it glitched out and I didn't see the page anymore. I dunno if it's a bug or just me, but I undid the edit just to be sure. I think there's too much on the page. Archives are needed.~Tao64

I'm about to archive it after the next turn. That glitch happened to me a couple of times a while back. The solution seemed to be resetting my browser.

Knoxmoor (talk) 15:56, August 21, 2015 (UTC)

It happens to me all the time on this page.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 18:21, August 21, 2015 (UTC)

Official algorithm
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Algorithm

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Casus Belli

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> None -5 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Staged Event -4 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Provoked -3 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Defending Honor -2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Helping Allies -1 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Political 0 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Reuniting Lands +1 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.38;"> Defending People +2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Motives

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Life or Death of country +5 to defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Independence +3 to defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Religion +3 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Social or moral +2 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Economical +1 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Expansion and influence gaining 0 to attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Fake motives -5 to attacker.

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Landscape +20 for homeland, +10 for adjacent lands, +0 for non adjacent lands, -10 for across sea, -20 for across world

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> If in face of bigger army -5

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> If in face of smaller army +5

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> If previously won a battle against same opponent, +5, if lost, -5

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Fortifications

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Small +5 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Medium +10 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Large +20 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Mountains -5 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Jungle -6 attacker, +5 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Forests/swamps/hills +2 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Beach landing +3 defender, -1 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Island +3 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Desert -1 defender, -2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Polar -7 attacker, -1 defender

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> War Monger -the number of turns of fighting

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Multiple fronts your troops will be divided by number of fronts if not specifying

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Army is +number of men divided by 20,000

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Economy +10 for great, +5 for good, +0 for ok, -5 for bad, -10 for non-existent

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Reputation +2 attacker

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Tier +1-5 depending on power

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Sea dominance +4

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Technology +0-10

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> Luck +5 (RNG used, evens for attacker and odds for defender)

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">-also Knoxmoor, war monger gives either side minus the number of turns previously fought.

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">so if a player fought 1 turn ago and is fighting again it would be -1 and so on

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">Revolution 9 (talk) 21:32, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;"> <h2 dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">Complaints 'WTF my navy non-existant????I have more navy than you noob -' Wrto12 in regards to Gothic claims of naval superiority

'''You are not eastern Carthage or Carthagenian at all,read some history for god's sake.You are actually a mix of Roman,Greek,Nomad(not black,idk arab?),Phoenician and Egyptian people. - Wrto12 in regards to the Kingdom of Africa '''

Wrto12, I am sorry to inform you of this since you clearly don't already know, but during your abscence, the Carthaginian navy was destroyed and mostly taken over by the Goths. Also, I'm not sure what your complaint with KOA is, I am assuming that this line is what upset you "Mbali   proposes  that a split from the barbaric west  Carthage  is necessary." ? If this Is what you are complaining about, I would like to inform you, that the way I interpretted this message was not that Africa was "splitting off" from Carthage as an independant, but rather than they would be breaking previously formulated alliances.

Afunnymouth (talk) 14:19, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">In all the turns that passed since the war Carthage should have rebuilded its fleet.

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:6pt;margin-bottom:8pt;font-size:16px;line-height:1.2;">Wrto12 (talk) 16:44, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

It would take long amounts of time to build a ship. This is not the modern era. You would have like only 18 ships by now.~Tao64

Yeah, seriously, a navy is not only costly, but damn is it hard to rebuild if almost the entirety of it gets destroyed. Also, most nations never really recover if there navy gets obliterated, prior to like, the modern era, even then its still difficult to rebuild, also like to imagine that such a loss would be demoralizing to a nation, taking into considering the Carthaginians were a seafaring people, as you are calling out the historical context of Carthage.Hddenevil (talk) 19:03, August 24, 2015 (UTC)Hddenevil

Hey guys, sorry for the weird message formatting and timing. I'm on the road a lot and use a mobile device. This is also the reason bhai I've yet to make an account. You'll have to bare with me until things in my life settle down a bit! -snoopdigdogg11

It's chill Osirus. I try to fix any bolding problems I find. Afunnymouth (talk) 04:01, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah man, no one's goin to judge you for poor formatting if your having issues to editing and such, so its cool ^_^.Hddenevil (talk) 16:24, August 25, 2015 (UTC)Hddenevil

Persias turns
Can somebody do my turns for me until Thursday? I haven't got the time.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 17:48, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

I think a mod should do it to prevent any bias. Also players should avoid attacking Persia whilst they are away. Afunnymouth (talk) 03:59, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

Gothic occupied territory vs Rus' territory
The color of the Gothic Occupied territory and the Rus' territory is the same. This is going to prove to be confusing as there may be occupied territory in or near the Rus' claimed lands, making it indistinguisable. Afunnymouth (talk) 04:50, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. Unfortunatly, both the Gothic and Rus' colors are actually the colors used by the Universal Color Scheme of maps, and as such, I would like to keep them. They are slightly different, the difference being that the Rus' are a bit darker. I apologize for the inconvenience, but be sure to look closely, and you'll be able to figure it out.

If this is a mod, I would like to say, I Strongly insisit it be changed. Nobody gives a shit about the UCS and by following it to the letter we are led to a confusing situation. I reccomend a dark gray possibly, something darker than the Saxons, but not quite black. We can all agree the colors are confusing as fuck. Srsly. Just change it. Afunnymouth (talk) 12:14, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

If you would like one of the colors to change, please provide me with the hex code or RGB of a color you would like the Goths to be, and I will gladly change it in the legend and the map. I do appreciate the problem, and will do my part if you provide me with an exact color solution, as opposed to general color suggestions.

Knoxmoor (talk) 18:49, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

Love my new color. Thanks Knox

Bar bar, bar bar bar. Afunnymouth (talk) 09:06, August 27, 2015 (UTC)

Carthage
I had enough of this super-implausable game, Carthage splits to two kingdoms is fucking unrealistic as i am already too small in size i am losing th war already now you are just giving me the final blow, super favoring the Goths which you don't even mention of spliting plus west lands are supporting me?really thats newly settled useless lands...I am quiting this stupid game...had enough.

I just wanted to let you know that it was fun to have you, and I'm glad you took the time to participate in my game. Just some parting words, however. Keep in mind that when you rejoin a game, it is your responsability to be up to date on most if not all of what your country has done, and to be completely aware of its current economic, political, and military positions. I'm guessing that is not what you did before rejoining. Do not expect me to accomadate poorly made decisions, due to a lack of awareness. Your choices are what led to the trouble Carthage is experiencing now, not any favoring of other nations on my part. I wish you luck wherever your althistory journey takes you.

Knoxmoor (talk) 18:54, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

Ask any senior member of this forum to tell you his opinion about this game...they will tell you its totally implausable/the game's a joke...like the futures of europe wikia http://tfoe-map-game.wikia.com/wiki ... in this game, every tribe/nomad turned into kingdom in just a fucking turn and then get 14th century tech in two more turns...Japan collonized Taiwan when they didn't had the tech to do that/they couldn't travel that far and two United Nations like Organizations exists in 600 A.C. ghana suddenly took all the northwestern africa rivers in just two turns and used pan-africanism/african nationalism when the nation/idea of that didn't exist until 19th century, Arabs/Muslim Conquests weren't even mentioned, every war is just super biased. only one nomadic invasion was even mantioned,the rest of the world except Europe,west africa and east asia weren't even mantioned like oceania ,middle and south africa,central asia was just banded up in a huge empire with no mentioning of its surrounding tribes/nomads, everyone is acting implausable, everyone gives rights to slaves to play the good guy and not have rebelions ,which at that era the whole notion/idea didn't even exist.And you are telling me i don't know about my countries history , well you(all of you that play this game) don't even know that millennium history...

P.S.:I know very well both Carthage and Vandalic history

Wrto12 (talk) 21:24, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

I never even remotely insinuated that you did not know Carthaginian nor Vandalic history. What I did say is that you chose to ignore the decisions that were made in your absence. You made poor choices and you paid for them, it is as simple as that. Please know that your ad hominem tactics are both destructive, and a distraction from the meaningful conversation occuring on this wiki and talk page. If you would like to discuss this further, I suggest you message me. as this is not the place for a conversation of this variety. By the way, Muslim/Arab conquests have not happened yet. The city state of Medina was formed in 623 C.E., and Islamic expansion took off from there. But, I'm sure you know that, being the history buff you so fervently claim to be. I have attempted civil discussion, as have the other players of this game, and you have proven it to be useless. I wish you well on your journey's throughout this wonderful wiki, and I hope that an incident like this does not occur again.

Regards, Knoxmoor (talk) 22:16, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

For the record, nobody is "Playing the good guy." The Goths freed their slaves because they used it as a justification for pushing into Carthage, and as a means to boost morale and troop numbers. In addition to this, the Suebians are still completely enslaved, the only ethnicity they made free was the native North Africans that they got from Carthage in the first place. The Byzantines only freed slaves through a clever system of a six year servince in the military in exchange for freedom, which is very similar to something that the Roman Empire did.

Barbarbar, Afunnymouth (talk) 06:28, August 27, 2015 (UTC)

Implausibility
The Turkish Khaganate never became really powerful, they never had any "advanced" tactics, or navy, or anything. They're not centralised and they're just nomadic people with poor technology. Now, with this in mind, how are they going to advance technology "faster" then China or Korea? They only win cause of their large army size. So I think, his turn is really implausible. Candiesrgood (talk) 00:05, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

Exactly~Tao64

No, I'm with you guys. The Gokturks shouldn't have a navy at all, shouldn't be unified to the point of success in warfare whatsoever, and in no possible way could they be ahead of China or Korea in tech. We need some rules on numbering troops as well. I try to never say numbers because then the game turns into a contest of who can boast the most troops. Afunnymouth (talk) 01:16, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

You folks are all corrent. The Gokturks were only winning because of their size and population, and even now, the Liang have more troops.

Knoxmoor (talk) 03:06, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

Nice job on writing the fight knoxmoor! - snoopdigdogg11

Thanks! I really appreaciate it!

Knoxmoor (talk) 00:43, August 31, 2015 (UTC)

Autonomous nations
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.89;margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:6pt;"><span style="font-size:13.333333333333332px;font-family:Arial;color:#3a3a3a;font-weight:700;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;">Autonomous nations having a colored outline for the region of lands they have been given to govern.

For instance the Anglo-Saxonic Kingdom is going to be joining the Goths as an Autonomous nation. Since at one point "Long Dong Johnson" controlled an empire with a specific color you could use said color to show what region he "controls".

Potential Mod Discussion
To keep things organized, we should use this section to discuss potential mod appointments.

I would really like to be a mod in this game. I really enjoy playing as the Caliphate, so I don't really don't really want to stop playing. I will promise to try to keep biased LOW as possible. I personally think the game will die if you don't have spare Knox, if you want to include anything else in my application just say.

So could I be co-Head mod (you'll be 1st) or a mod.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 18:42, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

PS: Please say on my talk page if u havent got the time to play BOB.

Lombardy (OOC): I think right now we're just discussing the possibility of having mods, then we'll discuss whether we should open up potential mod positions to players, and then you could apply. Of course, I'm not the host of the Map Game, but it seems a lot more reasonable than applying for a nonexistent position.

Ok. I think we should have other mods to keep the game going. How about if we agree we should have mods in the game then we can show an avertisement on the top Line of the saying MODS APLLICATIONS ON TALK PAGE. IF YOU WANT TO BECOME A MOD YOU DONT PLAY PLAY.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 15:23, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Lombardy (OOC): Let's give it a bit, to see if he does anything. If not, we'll have a revolution, and elect some mods. I would be willing to abandon Lombardy to write the events for the Map Game. We'll have to do it soon, though, so people don't start dropping out. If there's no update by tomorrow evening, we'll settle on a new head mod and keep going. I know that this is going a bit fast, but I have experience with the attention-spans of many of the people who play Map Games, and trust me, it's not long. If we don't do anything soon, the Map Game will never recover from the loss of active players.

Ok. I agree that's it is enough time. I really don't want to leave the Caliphate and I would rather be the Caliphate than be a mod. However, if a revolution does happen could I be co-head mod?

Awesome history 28 (talk) 16:37, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Lombardy (OOC): Why ask me? Ask whoever turns out to be the mod. Of course, if EoGuy ever returns, he'd get his position back.

By the way, I sent you a request for a sort of "secret alliance," but since we're having a conversation here, and it's been buried in several days of other posts, you might as well respond here.

Edit: Nevermind, I won't be home tomorrow, or Sunday. You should probably get in contact with some of the other players (maybe the Goths, or Mbali) and get one of them to start posting, or you can just wait.

Viva la revolution!

Lol

Ok. I'll ask them. So, do u want to join the High Council of the Middle East and rename it Eurassia? You will get lots of Goth land.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 19:04, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Lombardy (OOC): This is the last thing I'll say until Monday, so don't bother replying; I won't read it. I would prefer not to join the High Council of the Middle East, at least now, because that would put me solidly against the Goths. While relations with them certainly have deteriorated, I'm not ready to turn my backs on them completely (especially since they control the main route used for exporting goods from our country). If they continue to insult our nation diplomatically, as they have been, then yes, I do. Now, though, I would not.

The Kingdom of Ghana (OOC): As to put my own two-cents into this discussion, I dont think our primary mod is stating that he will be incapable of handling the game's turns, as he, much like the rest of us I presume, has a life beyond this game and responsibilities with the rest of his life that he has to handle. Now taking out of consideration that we throw him out as our mod.., I think what he is considering is for someone who is willing to stop being a country and aid in mod affairs, handlling turns if possible. Though, if we were to consider players for the turns then I think they should be considered off of how they have been, atleast in terms of the way they handle OOC with other players, and in general there plausability in the game. We wouldnt want someone like Carthage from a few weeks ago becoming a mod, cuz that was just silly. If a mod from the playing community were to be selected, then I think they should be like a deputy-mod, if thats applicable, and thus be allowed to aid in developing the turns as that seems to be his primary issue at the moment, having to deal with a mountain of information and player interactions to process into a new turn, as well as checking for implausability. still though, its up to the guy who's been running this so far if he wants to add players, that is if he cannot find someone who wants to moderate without playing a country, just something to consider.

Hmmm, interesting. I would happy to be deputy mod and play as the Caliphate.

Awesome history 28 (talk) 20:24, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

The Gothic Empire (OOC): Ey, I've been here since day one, I might be able to take over something. I could probably write for another nation and keep bias out of it maybe? I don't know, just saying I'll help too. Afunnymouth (talk) 23:58, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

I would be happy with that. YOUR TO GOOD FOR THE GOTHS. JK. So, if Knox doesn't do a turn by 7pm British time then Afunnymouth will become new Head Mod and change nations to keep bias down and I and the Lombardy player become Co-Head Mods. Agreed?

Awesome history 28 (talk) 09:30, September 19, 2015 (UTC)

VIVA REVOLUTION!

Silla (OOC): This is Knoxmoor's work, and this is his property. No one will become head mod unless if he gives it away to someone else. If someone else is placed as the head mod, you're basically stealing his work. Knoxmoor is working his ass off just on making the turns.

The Kingdom of Ghana (OOC): could you please stop referring to this like a revolution, almost like bringing the RP into the meta of this game.. Besides that, this game was made by Knoxmoor, and I oppose the idea that we just elect to kick him because he has a life to deal with beyond this game, that being said he should atleast respond to this talk page about what should be done, but I refuse this idea of just replacing him, especially since this is a game, if you cant wait for some of us to take care of our lives outside of this game, and demand REVOLUTION!, because he has shit to do, then maybe you should just go find another game, I'd rather not have someone who is so willing to throw out our mod, replace him, as so far he has been relatively fair, unbiased, and on time with the posting of these turns. I feel we should wait till he responds with what he wants done for the game, and if anyone else attempts to start making turns to this page I will refuse to continue to playing, I hope everyone else will agree that this idea that if he gets busy with possibly school or other affairs for a few days, means we should attempt to replace him, this is just silly you guys. I myself have been busy with college pretty much on the weekdays, and as a result tend to not post the turn for my state in the game, so I understand if there are ulterior reasons for his inability to create a turn, but I'm sure he will respond and make clear what he wants done soon enough.

Hddenevil (talk) 13:05, September 19, 2015 (UTC)Hddenevil

The Gothic Empire (OOC): The symantics of the situation shouldn't matter, If you would prefer to call it an "adoption" in the future, that's okay with me. With that aside, I do believe we should take action as to not lose players. I have contacted the moderator Knoxmoor through several means ie;skype/kik/talkpage.Therules of the wiki dictate that no action can be taken until (7 days) have passed with no response. Genesaria, AH28, and I will try to work something out if we don't hear back from Knox, but until then, let's just see which players support a move, which don't, and get some of the planning out of the way. Hopefully we don't actually have to do this, but it may be our only option to save the game. (Keep in mind, we are not stealing knoxmoor's intellectual property, merely trying to ensure that a game that brought pleasure to dozens of peoples lives everyday not die off without a proper climax.)