User:NuclearVacuum/Sandbox

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This article is the sandbox subpage for NuclearVacuum. All sections here are only for temporary experiments and or ideas. Some information may be speculative, but under reasonable tensions. All information on here will be removed at one time or another, but not all sections here are permanent (only a few I intend to keep longer than others).


 * User:Mister Sheen/Temp

Featured timelines

 * Great White South:
 * September 2010
 * April 2013


 * New Union:
 * July 2011
 * March 2012

Saved images
Here are images I found here, and may find use for (rather than uploading new ones).

Primary

 * Parliamentary Seating Chart by Hellerick

13 Fallen Stars



 * State ideas for
 * Cimarron
 * Cimarron


 * (colors)
 * Term lengths by state
 * 

New Union

 * La Nueva Unión (Spanish New Union)


 * as a of


 * Soviet Union Pavilion at Epcot
 * Kaliningrad Disney
 * (Democratic socialist Cuban)
 * (Spanish version says this guy is president??)
 * Red Belt (Русский)
 * Micronesia could be the 51st State (potential expansion)
 * Cuban election ideas
 * becomes a global search engine similar to Google (though not as popular).
 * becomes a global search engine similar to Google (though not as popular).

Russian America

 * AHC Willardo Romney sworn in as Mexico's president (interesting idea)

Others

 * Antioquia (Triunfa, España!)
 * Antioquia Federal (1983: Doomsday)
 * United States Senate elections of 2010 (SIADD) (IRL Jack Johnson vs. John Jackson)

Duplicate files
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The following uploads have have been removed from this site, and have been replaced with the following correct files:

* File:... → File:...

Please try not to let this happen again. Please do not re-upload [this] file[s]. Disciplinary actions will be taken if duplications continue. Thank you. --~

Uploading correct files
c/s

In order to make things easier for all users to locate files that have been imported from Wikipedia, we request that you upload the correct files in both type and name.

Key missions



 * &mdash; A proposed mission from NASA which would've utilized the and a human habitation module which would've replaced the s (LMs) used during the Manned Moon missions. The first launch window would've happened in 1973, with a flyby and return by 1974.


 * &mdash; A proposed Soviet manned Venus flyby, using similar methods to that of the American idea. The Soviet mission would've launched in 1971, but would've also included a Mars flyby. The TMK-E mission (which would've happened in the 1960s) was a proposed manned landing on Mars, and would've required multiple N1 launches and the construction of an interplanetary "space station" in orbit.

Key dates from OTL
The following is a list of key events from OTL that pertain to Venus and potential ATL events.


 * 1645 &mdash; Italian is the first person to sight the supposed satellite of Venus.


 * 1672 &mdash; Italian/French is the second to note a potential satellite of Venus. He didn't make notes of it until 1686 when he sights the possible satellite again.


 * 1761 &mdash; Russian discovers that Venus has an atmosphere.


 * 1962 &mdash; American  becomes the first man-made object to flyby Venus.


 * 1965 &mdash; Soviet  becomes the first man-made object to impact Venus (i.e., it crashed).


 * 1970 &mdash; Soviet  became the first man-made object to transmit date from the surface of Venus.


 * 1975 &mdash; Soviet  became the first man-made object to orbit Venus, as well as the first lander to return pictures from the planet's surface.


 * 1982 &mdash; Soviet  brought back the first colored images of the Venusian surface. In a curious development, Russian scientists in 2012 announced possible evidence of life on the surface after re-examining the date from Venera 13.


 * 1985 &mdash; Soviet  begins its mission at Venus.


 * 1990 &mdash; American  begins its mission at Venus. Using radar, the mission produces a detailed map of the Venusian surface (despite the thick clouds).


 * 2006 &mdash; European  begins its mission around Venus.


 * 2024' &mdash; Russia plans to launch ', becoming the first Russian mission to Venus since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The mission is believed to follow Magellan and create an updated map of the Venusian surface, and the possibility of a Soviet-styled lander with modern technology.''

Participating nations and organizations
The following shows the list of nations/organizations which facilitate settlements on Venus, as well as the year they first landed on Venus. It should be noted that other nations may have settlements on Venus, but the following nations/organizations has primary say on them (since they have the means to get to the planet).


 * Flag of the Soviet Union.svg &mdash; 1985
 * See also: 


 * Flag of the United States.svg United States &mdash; 1990


 * Flag of the People's Republic of China.svg China &mdash; 1990s
 * In OTL, China had intentions to have manned spaceflight capabilities by 1973, though economic and "cultural" problems lead to the abandonment of the program (with China not getting into space until 2003). From what I've read, Mao may have pushed to not end the program in the 1970s on the grounds of Venus. This will also mean that China would be well established on Venus by today (see ). Otherwise, China would likely require outside help to establish settlements on Venus by today (which would also mean Lada wouldn't be developed and likely only a few settlements).


 * Flag of Europe.svg Europe &mdash; 1990s
 * ESA planned to have manned spaceflight capabilities by 1992, but was abandoned in light of new cooperation with NASA and Russia. If the British decide to go it alone down the line, than ESA and their settlements on Venus would be French dominated for the most part (though all members cooperate equally).


 * Flag of the United Kingdom.svg Commonwealth &mdash; ???
 * See also: 
 * While odd to me, I guess it could be possible to see the British decide to go it alone (IIRC, they didn't take part in the manned spaceflight program of ESA in the 1990s). Though I think it would be more interesting to have a Commonwealth-wide space program instead of a British-only one (probably more richer if it had cooperation).


 * Flag of Iraq (1963-1991).svg Iraq &mdash; 2000s
 * See also: User:NuclearVacuum/Sandbox
 * As odd as it may sound, Iraq had intentions of a manned space program (with 2001 being the latest possible date), but the program was abandoned following the Gulf War. If Saddam sees Venus as a potential goal, he may leave Kuwait alone and go to Venus instead (likely with cooperation from several [if not all] Arab states).


 * Flag of Japan.svg Japan &mdash; 2000s
 * Japan had intentions of a manned spaceflight program around 2003 (but was abandoned). Here it could very well be successful, though I wouldn't be too surprised if they did it earlier (kinda surprises me they aren't already up there).

Nations and Settlements on Venus


All of the areas labeled in bold face refer to independent nation states. Countries in parentheses refer to the primary (Earth) nation to control said area. Areas in quotation marks are unorganized ideas which may or may not become canon.


 * American Venus


 * Flag of the Federated States (Venusian Haven).svg 
 * Flag.svg "Fortune Bay"
 * Flag of New Florida (Venusian Haven).svg 
 * Flag of Teegeeack (Venusian Haven).svg 
 * Flag.svg "Tethus"


 * British/Commonwealth Venus


 * Flag.svg "Betashire"
 * VHBuffaloflag.png (Canada)
 * Flag.svg "Metisire"
 * Flag of New Quebec (Venusian Haven).svg
 * Flag of Scotland.svg ""


 * Chinese Venus


 * Flag of Lada (Venusian Haven).svg 
 * Flag.svg "New Pyongyang" (North Korea)
 * Flag.svg "New Tibet"


 * French (Franco-European) Venus


 * Flag.svg "Themis"
 * Flag.svg "Cassini"


 * Iraqi/Arab Venus


 * Flag of Hilal (Venusian Haven).svg 
 * Flag.svg "New Kurdistan"
 * Flag.svg "New Palestine"


 * Japanese Venus


 * Japanese Venus flag by Hellerick 3.svg


 * Soviet Venus


 * Flag of New Kamchatka (Venusian Haven).svg 
 * Flag.svg
 * Flag of Black Ukraine (Venusian Haven).svg
 * Flag.svg "Devana"
 * Flag.svg "Imdr"
 * Flag.svg "New Caucasia"
 * Flag.svg "New Crimea"
 * Flag.svg "New India" (India)
 * Flag.svg "New Prussia" (Germany[s])
 * Flag of New Saigon (Venusian Haven).svg (Vietnam)
 * Flag.svg "New Turkmenistan"
 * Flag.svg "New Warsaw" (Czechoslovakia and Poland)
 * Flag.svg "Rusalka"
 * Flag.svg "Sapas"

Thoughts for the timeline

 * The is regarded as a failure. Rather than say "it was designed with Venus in mind", simply have the Soviets begin designs for a new rocket design. This "N2" or "Raskat" (a proposed Russian name for the N1 had it worked) would be the answer to the Saturn V.


 * Despite still losing the Moon to the Americans (the  would've also been a failure ATL), the Soviets could possibly still reach the Moon by the 1970s (especially if Venus was still a prime target in the Space Race). was regarded as the likeliest candidate for the first Soviet on the Moon. The name Gerkules ("Hercules") and/or Gerkules-Raskat were potential names for the Soviet Moon missions.


 * The infamous of 1975 possibly might not happen. The "Apollo 18" module may have been used for a proposed Manned Venus Flyby in 1973/74. The USSR may also do a manned flyby a few years later.


 * Given Venus's Earth-like atmosphere (ATL), it would take rockets of enough strength (at least along the lines of the Mercury or Vostok) to escape the planet's atmosphere. Given the complexity of this, it would be very unlikely to send the first men back from Venus without rocket experts and contractors already on the planet. In affect, the first Venus landing would be a one-way trip.


 * The Soviet manned Venus landing mission (personal codename "Vega") would likely happen around the mid 1980s. The mission would be a modified TMK-E station (which was designed for a manned Mars landing OTL). Two missions could possibly take place in the mid to late 1980s.


 * The Americans would follow with a landing in the early 1990s (personal codename "Magellan"). Likely based on a similar design to the Soviet mission.


 * By 2010, China, Europe, and Japan may follow suit and land a colony on Venus. The United Kingdom may go it alone (not too sure about this) and an Iraqi-led Arab mission may be possible (if the cards are played out, though I'm having second thoughts).

Venus



 *  &mdash; 0.723 AU
 * Eccentricity &mdash; 0.0067
 * Orbital period &mdash; 224.701 Earth days
 * Radius &mdash; 6,051.8 km
 * Rotational period &mdash; 34.2 Earth hours


 * Rotational period

Venus (OTL) has a rotational period much longer than its orbital period around the Sun. While there are many theories as to why this is OTL, the fact that Venus would have a large moon ATL would likely help speed up Venus. How much faster is pretty much my own choosing, and I personally would love to avoid the 24-hour mark that is standard on both Earth and Mars. While I initially liked the idea of a shorter day (around 22 hours), I think I'm going to extend it to 34 hours (more specifically 34.2 Earth hours). Why this? In short, this is the reverse of 243 days that makes up a Venusian day OTL.


 * Axial tilt

Venus is unique because it is completely upside down in respect to the rest of the planets. The more noted affect this would have is that it rotates backwards from the respect of Earth. If Venus is the same ATL, than this would be very interesting for people on the planet (though in different ways). It should be noted that for this timeline (and many textbooks), the north pole of Venus would be facing the same part of space that the Earth's south pole faces. So from that, the Sun would still rise in the east and set in the west (not the opposite as you may have read in textbooks).

One of the more interesting things would be that the constellations would look upside down. So those in southern Venus would see northern constellations (like the Big Dipper) while those in northern Venus would see southern constellations (like the Southern Cross).

Neith



 * Neith, the Moon of Venus, 1672-1892

Unlike OTL, Venus in the Venusian Haven timeline would have a large moon. This would play a key role in the timeline, as such a large moon would help out Venus in many areas to assure it becomes a habitable planet. Since all the references to a Venusian moon (OTL) are from flawed observations, there is no standard for me to work with. This leaves me open to do as a wish (though I will keep in the spirit of these original observations).

Venus's moon is named Neith (pronounced as "neeth" [like "Keith" or "teeth", but with an "N"]), which is named after the of fate. The moon is would slightly be bigger than Earth's moon and would orbit closer to Venus than Earth's moon (completing an orbit roughly every 18 Earth days). From the Venusian sky, Neith would look bigger than the Moon or the Sun from Earth (and slightly bigger than what the Sun would look like on Venus). Much like the Moon, Neith would be barren and full of craters and ancient lava fields.

From Earth, Neith can be seen along with Venus (making Venus look like a double star), though Neith can be best seen when Venus and Earth are closer to each other. This made the moon easy to spot by early astronomers like Galileo. It wouldn't be until the late 19th century that the name "Neith" became accepted as a common name (much like the other satellites of the Solar System).


 * Links


 * http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/mars/opposition08.html
 * http://astrobob.areavoices.com/2013/07/22/how-cool-nasa-releases-photos-of-earth-taken-from-saturn-mercury/
 * http://cosmoquest.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-83742.html


 * Notes


 * From the distance I have, the maximum distance between Neith and Venus (from the Earth) would be one-fifth that of the Moon's apparent diameter.

Koshmar

 * Main article:, 


 * System: Solaria (Solar System)
 * Biosphere: Venusiana (Venus)
 * Kingdom: Tereshkovia (Animal-like)
 * Phylum: c/s
 * Class: Pseudokoris (False bug)
 * Order: c/s
 * Family: c/s
 * Genus: c/s
 * Species: incubus

Governmental hierarchy

 * Collectivity &mdash; a type of pseudo-government which unites several colonies, but holds little to no solidarity other than allowing a solid voice back to Earth. Many describe them as how the were not united, but close in relations. The term commonwealth is also used to describe this type of unity on Venus.


 * IDEA NOTE: Some of the settlements would simply be city states which govern an area no bigger than the largest cities on Earth (New Quebec, New Palestine, etc). Only nation states have larger territories (New Kamchatka).

Organizations on Venus



 *  (UNV) &mdash; Established as part of the Venus Treaty, the UNV functions similarly to the United Nations. It includes membership of the independent nations on Venus as well as the Earth governments which holds dependent settlements on the planet (such as the USA and USSR). Its primary function works similar to the UN for Venusian issues, but also acts as a unified voice for the planet. For interplanetary matters, both the UN and UNV must ratify a bill before it becomes law (somewhat like a bicameral legislature). Unlike the UN, all member states have total say (meaning there are no "permanent seats" like on Earth).


 *  (VF) &mdash; Established by the mid-1990s as a cooperating body between the American and Soviet settlers on Venus. It's primary function was to keep order on the planet (since help from Earth was limited) and to act as a peacemaker between the settlements. Unlike the UNV, the VF has membership of both the independent nations of Venus and the many dependent settlements spread across the planet (as well as barring any Earth participation). Following the formation of the UNV, the VF has become more focused on inter-governmental cooperation between the settlements, focusing solely on Venusian matters.

Iraq and Helal


http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3355047&postcount=6

Since the beginning of this timeline, I have put an Iraqi-controlled colony on Venus. I did so because Iraq had ambitions for a space program (including a potential manned spaceflight mission), but the political situation following the Gulf War (1991) ended such a program. Given the nation's oil wealth (which had already be used to establish the fourth-largest military at the time), such a program seems possible. With Venus as a potential target, I felt that it might be seen by Saddam as a better location than Kuwait (more or less). I also showed interest for this idea because of : an area on Venus which (given the oceans on Venus ATL) would look like a crescent-shaped body of water (not sure if you'd call this stereotyping, but it seemed too good to pass up).

So the next question to be asked is... how does this hold up now? Doing a little more reading, I feel Iraq could establish a space program in the 1990s, and this leaving open a Venusian colony by the mid-2000s. The countries natural wealth, combined with a large military, and "backing" from multiple nations (including the USSR, but more so from Syria and possibly Libya), it looks possible (at least as much as it can get in this timeline).

Though doing this may also have butterflies that could affect the Earth. For starters, the only way for this to work would be that Saddam sees Venus as an ultimate goal, thereby leaving Kuwait alone. This would mean no Gulf War, but could also leave open the possibility that Saddam also gets the nuclear bomb (which was also being looked into at the time). This could lead to tensions with Israel and could also lead to the Americans still putting troops in Saudi Arabia (likely meaning there's still a 9/11). While it greatly varies, this may also simply lead to an Indo-Pakistani situation in the area. But if this situation doesn't lead to war, than an Iraqi Venus should still be on the table.

Though another question would be whether the Arab Spring still happens. I doubt Saddam would make anything better with him staying longer. Since the tensions started in Tunisia and eventually spread to Egypt, it could be possible it goes into Saddam-controlled Iraq (though this would likely end badly [thinking Syria-like]). So long as this happens, than I have an interesting idea for this Venusian colony.


 * Timeline WIP


 * 1998-2001 &mdash; Iraq launches a man into space.


 * 2005 &mdash; (Likely with Soviet help) Iraqi settlers found a settlement on Venus. Throughout the rest of the decade, the colony begins to fill up (mostly with exiles and other dissidents of Saddam).


 * 2011 &mdash; With chaos breaking out in the Arab World, the settlers across Arab Venus declare independence from Iraq. An independent nation of "Helal" is founded and recognized almost immediately by its neighbors. Iraq is in no position to do anything.

Actually thinking about it, not sure how valuable an Iraqi Space Program would be if the Soviets simply help them out. Though if space travel is seen like how air travel was at its start, than maybe the Soviets are more willing to sell parts to Iraq (which I believe they didn't want to OTL).


 * Name



http://i.imgur.com/0RVyMWA.png


 * هلال (Hilāl)


 * ال (al-)


 * الهلال (al-Hilāl)


 * جمهورية الهلال (Jumhūriyyat al-Hilāl)

Soviet Union in VH

 * A Red Century

Scientology State on Venus

 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Venusian_Haven#Venus_and_Scientology

Since I first began work on this timeline, I have envisioned a Scientology colony being made on Venus. Given the growth of the religion over the decades and the criticisms it has faced, I considered many Scientologists look at Venus the same way the Mormons envisioned the West. though when I first began to read up on Scientology, I came across a rather troubling fact that could derail this idea. According to (the founder of Scientology), Venus is (to simplify and paraphrase) a bad place to go to (something akin to ). So the question becomes: why would Scientologists go to a place which they believe is bad?

While the simple answer could involve Hubbard "seeing" Venus differently (since Venus would've showed promise by this time), but this would cause me to re-wright a religion (which I'm not sure I should do). Though what would probably be more ideal is that when it's confirmed that Venus isn't what Hubbard stated it is, many screw Hubbard's words and go to the planet anyway. As stated by LG, any colony would've been made long after Hubbard's death (so he can't do anything about it). It should also be noted that Hubbard saw Venus as a planet full of life and surrounded by a Methane atmosphere. Ignoring the life part, he became wrong on the poison atmosphere (which in OTL is Carbon Dioxide and Sulfuric Acid). Given he wrote this before the atmospheric composition was confirmed (both OTL and ATL), it shouldn't come as a surprise either way.

I should also not take this too seriously, especially since this is a timeline about a habitable Venus. So I think I will bring this idea back. It would likely be formed around the late 1990s to early 2000s. The movement of people forms a (or new sect) of Scientology (one which would favor Venus and interprets Hubbard's words differently [just a random idea, maybe they see Hubbard's Venus as the "Venusian Hell" underneath the planet]). The idea of a Scientology-controlled state encourages many to go to Venus. Once the population reaches a certain population, they declare independence from their (likely) American sponsors (I can't imagine the American's fighting over loosing them). Today the nation is doing well, though it suffers from similar criticism that Utah has today, with the only difference being the state is independent and Scientology may be a state religion.

The only issue I now have is what to call it. For a while I've used the name "Docebit," but this was strictly a temporary nickname. The name is from the Latin docebit ("teach"), and is likely a play on the fact that "Deseret" may come from Latin (see deseret). The name "Hubbard" doesn't sound right for a country name (especially since Hubbard claimed Venus was a place to avoid). For a while I've considered something along the lines of "VenOrg" or the like (a play on ), but not sure this would fit.

Cassini
Cassini (Cassinian Union) would be an independent nation which unified most of the EU/ESA settlements. It is dominated by French, German, and Italians.

New names for Lada

 * Jidao (極島) &mdash; "Polar Archipelago"


 * Didao (低島) &mdash; "Low Islands"


 * Lindao &mdash; "Forested Archipelago"


 * Tianlin (天林) &mdash; "Heavenly Forest"

New POD for New Union

 * Main article: New Union

Considering that I know very little about the four men in the initial coup plot, it seems too "hopeful" for me to say that they getting drunk is a solution. I eventually chose this POD because I found it ironic that alcoholism (a major problem in the USSR that Gorbachev was trying to tackle) would lead to the downfall of this coup. Because of this gaping hole, I have decided to go back to my initial idea. Please note that I have been considering whether or not to change the POD for months now.

My initial idea was the notorious accident record of the (which were flying the men to the Crimea). The idea is simple, the plane crashes. No coup, very simple. Kinda... too simple. This is why I thought it sounded stupid before. I forgot all about it until I came across a timeline which is strikingly similar to my own. This made me realise that if someone else thought about it, than why not go back to it. Also (to make me feel better about it), I thought about this idea in 2010 (a year before this timeline came out).

More to come later

New Netherland: The Empire State

 * Main article: 



The Union of New Netherland will also become an imperial power.


 * "Antarctic Territory"
 * (excluding, , and )
 * (excluding, , and )


 * Micronesia


 * Fiji


 * (joint operation)
 * (protectorate)
 * (protectorate)


 * Union of New Netherland
 * Contiguous New Netherland
 * (excluding )
 * New Netherlander Antilles
 * Curacao
 * (excluding and )
 * Statia
 * (excluding and )
 * Statia
 * (excluding and )
 * Statia
 * Statia

Timeline

 * 1861 &mdash; Scandinavian West Indies
 * 1875 &mdash; Dutch West Indies
 * 1881 &mdash; Trouble starts in Spanish Colonies
 * 1883 &mdash; Spanish Colonies bought
 * Marshall Islands?
 * 1884/1885 &mdash; Fiji and Tuvalu annexed
 * 1885/1886 &mdash; Protectorate over Tonga
 * 1892 &mdash; Takeover of islands from new Venezuelan state

New Netherlander explorers

 * (maybe)
 * (maybe)


 * (potential)
 * (potential)

Timeline for New Netherland and her Empire

 * Events in italic are not related to New Netherland, but are crucial enough to be mentioned (as of now).


 * October 1787 &mdash; The ends with no agreement, and bitterness towards there being a successful union between the former colonies.


 * November 9, 1787 &mdash; The declares their independence from the United States of America (becoming one of the first states to do so).


 * March 24, 1788 &mdash; The are officially voided, ending the United States of America. The  officially becomes independent.


 * Late 1788 &mdash; Discussions between the begin on whether to form a rump USA between them. Proposed by, the goals of this union were to compete against Virginia and the New England states. The proposed union never materialized, effectively ending by 1790 (after the death of Franklin, and the ongoing war in Vermont).


 * Mid 1789 &mdash; The states of Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts (which at the time included Aroostook and Maine) sign the Hartford Convention, establishing the . Rhode Island would join in 1790, and Vermont by 1792.


 * Late 1789 &mdash; Due to growing tensions between New York and New England, New York troops enter into Vermont to assert their claim to the region. New England supports and aids the Vermont Republic. The begins.


 * 1790 &mdash; (Vermont War) A battalion lead by (a member of the Mohawk Tribe, and the only Native American to serve a high rank during the American Revolution), lead a successful campaign to push Vermont troops out of modern day Adirondack and Schenectady. In what became known as the Battle of the Hudson, New York was able to keep Vermont (and New England) from gaining access to the Hudson River.


 * 1791 &mdash; Within both New Jersey and New York, two secession movements form around this time:
 * Residents in eastern Long Island (primarily ) establish themselves as the "Long Island Boys." In response to the success in Vermont, the group hoped to gain the independence of Long Island (with prospects of them becoming part of New England). The group only gained support in eastern Long Island (with the west supporting New York). With the conclusion of the war nearing, the group gained little support in New England, and only angered those in New York.
 * While New Jersey remained neutral in the Vermont War, many Jerseyites from the northeast volunteered on behalf of New York. Those in the southwest wanted nothing to do with the war. With rumors that New Jersey would soon enter the war (a rumor which was not true), the state became divided based on . Those in the southwest declared the reestablishment of the long lost province of, going as far to show support in uniting with (which at the time was finalizing its federation with Delaware).


 * Late 1791 &mdash; New England and New York sign the Treaty of Providence, ending the Vermont War. As part of the treaty:
 * New York recognizes the independence of the Vermont Republic. The border between New York and Vermont is finalized, giving New York a 20 mile corridor east of the Hudson River, then using to complete the border.
 * New York agrees to transfer its claims west of the and the  (the ) to New England, in exchange for New England relinquishing any remaining claims to the areas within New York (the  and the  [if it existed by this point]). This makes the 1786  null and void.
 * New England agreed not to support any secession movements within New York (the so called "Long Island Boys").


 * June 26, 1792 &mdash; After months of discussions, New Jersey and New York agree to unite under the temporary "Union of New York and New Jersey." During the conventions to establish a constitution, the following topics are agreed upon:
 * Long Island and West Jersey would be allowed membership in the union (establishing a union of four states).
 * The upstate portion of New York (north of Albany County and west of the Delaware River) would be transferred to the new federal government (creating the "District of Albany"). In part for its lose, it is agreed to have become the capital for the new nation.
 * Border disputes between New York and New Jersey are finalized, with NY agreeing to sell (Staten Island) to New Jersey.
 * The new legislature (the Federal Assembly) would be based on the the proposed plan by (the ), which would give each state equal representation (regardless of size, population, or land ownership).
 * A proposal was made by war hero to reestablish the territory which Great Britain set aside for the Six Nations of the, creating a fifth state for both Iroquois and white settlers. While this proposal was not adopted, the basis of which would reemerge years later.


 * Late 1792 &mdash; All four states ratify the new constitution. Prior to which, the name of the new nation was changed to the (after the  which occupied the same region). The remnants of New Jersey and New York (which both lost territory as part of the new constitution) were renamed East Jersey and Hudson (respectively).


 * November 1792 &mdash; The first presidential elections take place. Former New York Governor (and known anti-federalist) wins in a landslide victory (winning the majority in all four states).


 * 1805 &mdash; The District of Albany is divided into four entities. The Capital District (a diamond-shaped plot of land in which the capital and federal government claims), the Schenectady Territory (the area effectively east of the Susquehanna River), and the Iroquois Territory (the westernmost portion of the nation). Despite its name (and being loosely based on a proposal by Joseph Louis Cook), the Iroquois Territory was only in Iroquois in name, and set aside for primarily white settlers (rather than a joint Iroquois-White state, as proposed by Cook). Despite this, Cook was appointed as the first territorial governor (a post he would hold until his tragic death in 1814). Cook continued to work with the federal government, and convincing many tribes to sell territory to Albany.


 * July 4, 1817 &mdash; Construction begins on the (a canal stretching from the Hudson River (via the Mohawk River) to Lake Erie (via the Niagara River).


 * October 26, 1825 &mdash; The Erie Canal is completed. The construction is seen as a major event in the administration of.


 * 1830 &mdash; The area west of the (mostly part of the  at the time) is admitted as the State of Niagara (the fifth state).


 * 1834 &mdash; The southern-half of the Schenectady Territory is admitted as the State of Schenectady. The remaining portions become the new Adirondack Territory.


 * 1837 &mdash; Revolution breaks out in . After the success of the revolution (and the independence of ) by 1840, many of the exiled Iroquois communities trekked back south to New Netherland (becoming a regional problem in the coming decade).


 * 1845 &mdash; With an increase in the Iroquois population in New Netherland (added with the increased White population along the Erie Canal), the territory demands statehood. Supported by President, statehood was eventually allowed after the agreement to divide the territory. The southern portion would become the new Genessee Territory, and the area north of the Black River was transferred to the Adirondack Territory. The State of Iroquois was admitted later in the year.


 * 1863 &mdash; agrees to sell their colonial possessions in the West Indies (the ) to New Netherland. The purchase becomes one of the major events of the, and is seen as the beginning towards the New Netherlander Colonial Empire.


 * 1876 &mdash; The agree to sell the Dutch West Indies (the ) to New Netherland. The islands are incorporated into the "New Netherlander West Indies," with the capital moving to  years later.


 * 1878 &mdash; offers to sell  (Saint Barts) to New Netherland. The island is incorporated into the New Netherlander West Indies.


 * 1881 &mdash; Tensions between Spain and many of her dominions in the Americas leads to revolutions in many (most noted would be Venezuela).


 * 1883 &mdash; In a radical move in part of the, Spain agrees to sell portions of her empire to New Netherland. The acquired territory includes the (Micronesia [not including the Philippines]), and  . This purchase gives New Netherland a footing in the Pacific and in Africa, leading New Netherland into the  age.


 * 1885 &mdash; New Netherland annexes and the  (Tuvalu).


 * 1886 &mdash; In an agreement with the, the island nation becomes a protectorate of New Netherland.

Timeline for New Netherland and her Empire 2.0

 * November 9, 1787 &mdash; New York declares secession from the Articles of Confederation.


 * March 24, 1788 &mdash; The USA dissolves. New Jersey gains independence.


 * Late 1788 &mdash; Talks for a unification of NJ and NY begin. War delays and alters unification moves.


 * November 1792 &mdash; New Netherland is established. New Jersey divides between east and west. Long Island becomes a state. Richmond County is sold to East Jersey. Upstate NY is given to the new federal government. The rump-NY becomes Hudson.


 * 1801 &mdash; The territories of Iroquois and Schenectady are established. Albany becomes a federal district.


 * 1805 &mdash; Schenectady gains statehood. The rest of the territory becomes the Adirondack Territory and the larger Capital District.


 * 1829 &mdash; Niagara gains statehood (splitting off from the Iroquois Territory).


 * 1836 &mdash; Iroquois gains statehood. The southern part of the territory becomes the Genessee Territory, with portions of the north being merged into the Adirondack Territory.


 * 1857 &mdash; Genessee gains statehood.


 * 1863 &mdash; Virgin Islands purchased.


 * 1872 &mdash; Adirondack gains statehood.


 * 1876 &mdash; Dutch East Indies purchased.


 * 1878 &mdash; St. Barts purchased.


 * 1880 &mdash; Caribbean islands united into the Curazao Territory.


 * 1883 &mdash; Spanish territory is purchased in Africa and the Pacific


 * 1898 &mdash; Bioko, Curazao, Fiji, and Micronesia gain territorial status. Islands off the coast of Venezuela annexed into Curazao.


 * 1900 &mdash; Tonga regains independence as a protectorate.


 * 1901 &mdash; Boundaries in Africa are finalized.


 * 1913 &mdash; NN Antarctic Territory established.


 * 1926 &mdash; African territories are united into the Biafra Territory.


 * 1958 &mdash; Curazao gains statehood. The rest of the territory becomes thee Statia Territory.


 * 1960 &mdash; Statia gains statehood.

Presidents in 13 Fallen Stars
{{legend|pink|Carolina}} {{legend|lightblue|Virginia}} {{legend|lightgreen|New England}} {{legend|lightsalmon|New Netherland}} {{legend|wheat|Pennsylvania}} {{legend|lightgrey|Others}}


 * Notes


 * The is hard to figure out. The patriarch  is from New Jersey, Samuel's son  was born in Ohio because of his father's work, and Prescot's son and grandson ( and ) were born in Massachusetts and Connecticut (respectively). From that, the family can be either New Netherlander, Pennsylvanian, and or New Englander (roughly in order).
 * The family seems to be more New Netherlander than New Englander. This may also be interesting to work into, since Prescot Bush is a suspect in the "failed" against Franklin D. Roosevelt.


 * was the first (and only) President born in California. However, given that both his parents originate from Ohio, and that he and his family were Quakers, I believe it is safe to assume Nixon may have been Pennsylvanian had the cards play right.


 * LG has helped out along

Candidates
With the multitude of nations, many presidential candidates in OTL may have better luck in their nations. Here are a few candidates.


 * Al Gore was born in DC. His father was a Senator from Tennessee, but his family originates from Virginia prior to the Revolutionary War. Likely, his family would probably remain in Virginia. This definitely eliminates the obvious nature of him being the VP of Carolinian-born Bill Clinton.


 * Hillary Clinton's mother would probably be Canadian. Given her troubled life, she may very well leave and comes across Pennsylvanian-born Hugh Rodham. Though the connections towards her being Pennsylvanian is pretty close, as her family tree has Virginian, Tennessean, and English on her father's side.

Long Island and the Outer Lands

 * BrianD's talkpage

Targets in New York


List Over-killing map Simulator (Another one)


 * Primary




 * Secondary


 * (all south of and west of  to state line)
 * (all south of and west of  to state line)


 * Tertiary



Potential other ideas

 *  &mdash; Given that the plant was completed in [January] 1984, the idea of it being completed and actually used to power Long Island seems plausible. Especially if Plymouth has a working plant and that nuclear experts from the Brookhaven National Laboratory may have survived. And given the fact that LI is already radiated, I doubt there would be too many anti-nuclear sentiment in LI (especially when powering the island should be more important).


 *  &mdash; While nothing more than a raccoon which was disfigured by decomposition and ocean currents, there were rumors that it was a genetic experiment that escaped. While not going that far, it might be interesting to think that if this creature still pops up ATL, that many Long Islanders may have spread rumors that it was a mutant.

Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant
The  was a nuclear power plant constructed in. It was the first (and only) nuclear plant to have been built on Long Island; and was proposed to help ease the power needs for Long Islanders and New Yorkers alike.

Despite being supported initially, three major events would doom the plant. The first was the 1979 accident at in, which caused initial fears over plant safety and fears over limited safely evacuating Long Islanders in a worst case scenario. The second was in 1985, in which  (the company who was also constructing the plant) was unable to restore power to Long Island for over a week (showing oversights on the company). The third and final event was the 1986 disaster at in the, which further ended the atomic age globally (let alone the United States).

Despite hopes to continue operation, even being allowed to operate low-level tests on the reactor in 1985, the Shoreham Nuclear Plant was decommissioned in 1989 (becoming the first nuclear plant to be decommissioned in the United States). It wouldn't be until 1994 that all the traces of nuclear fuel were removed from the site. In order to prevent the plant from being activates, New York State purchased LILCO (under the new LIPA company), and Long Islanders were taxed for the construction of the plant (which they continue to pay to this day).

But with a nuclear holocaust taking place in 1983, could the Shoreham plant been ironically saved? Here, I believe that it is plausible (if not optimistic).


 * Key arguments


 * Because of the plant's location in eastern Long Island, the energy complex would suffer little to no damage from the nuclear strikes in the west and north.


 * Despite delays, the Shoreham plant was practically completed by September 1983 (but officially completed in January 1984). While some construction would be needed after doomsday, nothing crucial was needed (such as the reactor). All that would be needed by the time I am considering the plant to be used is some checking, finishing up, and finally fuel (more on that in a second).


 * Fuel is a tricky thing to find. However, if Plymouth has a workable reactor in use, then I can assume it would be easy to have the Outer Lands have some access to nuclear fuel (aside from the obviously cliche "nuclear anything in western LI"). However, I came across in the page that they "worked with technicians from [these countries] to dismantle the plants and sell the nuclear materials to them for either safe disposal or use in their own energy programs."  It could be safe to assume that Delmarva and the Outer Lands could work together in this process (and the timeline seems workable from what I see).


 * The only other issue would be the obvious support. Since Long Island's infrastructure was centered in the west (which is gone), and going about two decades without power would probably eliminate the "no nukes" mentality of Long Islanders (who in 1983 had a 70% approval of the plant) would most likely believe that powering the island was more beneficial then worrying about the fact that the plant would be powered by the same technology that destroyed half the world.


 * Timeline


 * 1983 &mdash; Doomsday has little affect on eastern Long Island, leaving the energy complex of the plant in tact and undamaged.


 * 1984 &mdash; Due to its technological importance, and fears that it could be used for terrorist uses, the Shoreham site is placed on guard (as was the Brookhaven National Laboratory and other sites in Brookhaven).


 * 1985–1996 &mdash; Aside from minor damage from Hurricane Gloria in 1985, animal habitation, and average dust and time; the Shoreham site would remain unaffected for over a decade.


 * 1997(ish) &mdash; With the "survivalist era" ending and the rise of "remodernization" taking place across the Outer Lands, the issue of powering the nation is asked. With announcements that Plymouth plans to reopen a nuclear plant, the fact that a nuclear plant was built in the Safety Zone of Long Island gains supportive grounds. Around the same time, Delmarva announces plans to decommission and dismantling of their (unworkable) nuclear plants, and offers to help.


 * 1998 &mdash; The Federal Assembly of the Outer Lands votes in favor of opening the Shoreham plant. About 20% of Long Islanders (about 15-25% of all Outlanders) opposed the announcement. The act also creates OLLCO (the Outer Lands Lighting Company), a government-owned energy company which will run the plant and work on the energy infrastructure across the Outer Lands.


 * 1999 &mdash; After months of inspections and tests, it is determined that the Shoreham site (aside from minor damage) was usable, with no damage to crucial systems already in place (including the reactor, the turbines, and the cooling systems). Construction begins to complete any needed repairs on the plant. At the same time, repairs are made on the power grid across eastern Long Island.


 * 2000 &mdash; Construction is completed. Within the year, the first shipments of nuclear fuel travels into the Long Island Sound. By the end of the year, the reactor is turned on for low-level testing, with all signs looking good.


 * 2001 &mdash; After months of testing and retesting, the Outer Lands allows for the complete use of the plant. In November, the plant goes fully online, and Long Island is bathed in power for the first time in decades.


 * Other notes


 * Nantucket had its own power station prior to 1996.


 * Interesting notes (for me)


 * The cylindrical building (the most noted structure in the energy complex) is/was the for the reactor (not the cooling tower as I previously thought).


 * The power plant was designed to use the waters of the to cool the turbines and reactor. This is called a Once-Through system (OT), and thereby means that the Shoreham plant would not have used a noted cooling tower structure (as the heated water is recycled back into the Sound).


 * Links


 * LILCO PLANS SAFETY FILTER AT SHOREHAM
 * Long Island Ruins
 * LIPA explores new uses for Shoreham nuclear plant site
 * California moves to ban once-through cooling
 * Generic Environmental Impact Statement for License Renewal of Nuclear Plants
 * Types of Nuclear Reactors
 * BWR – Boiling Water Reactors
 * A look at the Shoreham nuke protest, 30 years later
 * Nuclear Power – Yes Please!

Dominions and Crown Colonies

 * Dominions


 * Italic = Special dominions (not "settler colonies")


 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)
 * 1)  (flag idea)


 * Crown Colonies




 * Crown Dependencies


 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)
 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)
 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)
 * 1)  (not sure what it would be classified as)


 * Protectorates



Potential dominions

 * Potential


 * Dominions
 * (possible crown colony[s])
 * (possible crown colony[s])
 * (possible crown colony[s])


 * Crown Colonies
 * (crown colony)
 * (crown colony)
 * (crown colony)
 * (crown colony)
 * (crown colony)
 * (crown colony)


 * Protectorates


 * Not likely


 * (protectorate or independent)
 * (Palestine)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Palestine)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Prussian?)
 * (Prussian?)


 * (still French?)

New infobox for the states of New Netherland

 * Populations are based on OTL, and will be altered to express a larger population and internal migrations.


 * Population


 * 1) Hudson
 * 2) Niagara
 * 3) East Jersey
 * 4) Iroquois
 * 5) Long Island
 * 6) Schenectady
 * 7) West Jersey
 * 8) Genesee
 * 9) Adirondack
 * 10) Curazao
 * 11) Capital District
 * 12) Statia

Louisiana for 13
This will be expanded later, but I found this and need to write it for later research.

With my original idea for Canada likely to be gone soon, I take some comfort that at the very least, my idea would still work for Louisiana (I do hope that is what you meant by "Louisiana would work as a destination, though, for revolutionaries" [I assume you will be reading this, LG]).

In the short, Louisiana wins independence as a French-speaking republic. But with the loss of Canada, and a recent find, I may alter the timeline on when they gain independence. My original idea was around the late 1830s/early '40s (around the same time as the Mackenzie Rebellion in Canada). Now I may be looking towards the late 1810s/early '20s.

My reasoning involves enough lag for fleeing revolutionaries from France to enter Louisiana, it corresponds (more or less) to when the the other Latin American revolutions would be taking place (which all fail here, excluding Carolina's gains in the Floridas).

I also came across someone who may be a potential leader towards independence. was Governor of Louisiana OTL, as well as serving in the French army. His father (who was also a general) was executed by the new Spanish government, and played a minor role during the War of 1812. He might be an interesting figure to look further into.

Potential presidents



 * From LG



The American Republics and the British


For a while now, I have been trying to organize what the relationships between the American Republics (the former United States of America) and the British would be like. With the recent addition of Canada as a dominion (from what I had previously), I feel it should be appropriate to lay out my thoughts on the matter.

The obvious two categories would be those who have good relations, and those with bad relations. I have no doubt that by today (and throughout the 20th Century, if not earlier) all the American Republics would have good relations with the contemporary United Commonwealth. This primarily discusses relations in the 18th and 19th Centuries, and how they evolved into what they are today.


 * Carolina


 * Maryland


 * New England


 * New Netherland

I believe that would have strained relations with the British throughout much of the 19th Century. Much of this would come from resentment of British occupation of the New York City region during the Revolutionary War, and a move to establish themselves as a distinctive region (this includes the adoption of "Netherland" in their name).

Though for the most part, much of this anti-British feel would not be centered around them, but one of their biggest allies: New England. Albany's relations with Boston would be highly strained after the Vermont War &mdash; in which New York lost Vermont and their claims to the disputed Northwestern Territory. While the British had no real part in the Vermont War, the British would gain much of the blame (especially since NN's claim to the NWT did end up being British in the end).

New Netherland's growing power within North America would eventually lead to better relations. After the completion of the Erie Canal and the failed revolt in Canada; the British looked to have good relations with New Netherland for economic and security reasons.

Relations would begin to get positive by the 1880s. New Netherland money and industry is used to help build up British North America (including the first Transcontinental Railway from Canada to Colombia). New Netherland's growing global power and their own moves towards imperialism gained little opposition form the British, leading to territorial compromises.

Today, New Netherland and the United Commonwealth are the two dominant powers in the Americas.


 * Pennsylvania


 * Virginia

New Netherlander presidential election, 2014
With the 2012 election over and done with, I find myself (as well as many others) interested in 2016 and who would succeed Barack Obama. I have also been looking at 13 Fallen Stars in a similar light, and looking at who would become the next president of New Netherland. Their next election will take place in 2014, with incumbent being barred from serving a second term. While this is fun in one sense, I find any predictions to be in an extraordinary good position, as three prominent "New Netherlanders" have been placed as potential candidates in 2016.


 * &mdash; Governor of New York (OTL) since 2011, Cuomo has been an early Democratic candidate (as I can remember). Among many notes of his governorship include legalizing same sex marriages in New York, tackled corruption, and has cut spending. Another key for him ATL would be his father,, who has served as President of New Netherland.


 * &mdash; Governor of New Jersey (OTL) since 2010, Christie has a unique following in the Republican Party. Known for his charismatic attitude and bipartisan cooperation (especially during Hurricane Sandy in 2012). However he is also known for vetoing same sex marriage in New Jersey, issues with his weight, and has become shunned within the GOP (due to his moderate views).


 * &mdash; Governor of Florida (OTL) from 1999 until 2007, Bush is a recent contender for 2016 (but has gotten a lot of credibility). His moves for education and immigration reforms would probably stem good in New Netherland. The only weakness to his candidacy is the "sins" of his father (President ) and younger brother (President ) &mdash; both of which were Presidents of New Netherland &mdash; who would most likely have similar "sins" ATL.


 * Other potential candidates

The following have only recently come to light that their ancestry could be New Netherlander. They have not yet been "canonized" as New Netherlander, but probably will soon.


 * &mdash; Former Massachusetts Governor and Republican candidate in the 2012 presidential election. Romney's ancestry appears to originate from the original Mormon settlers from Western New York (OTL). Depending on how Mormonism evolves here, it might be likely he is New Netherlander here.


 * &mdash; Kentucky Senator and son of (who appears to be NN).

Asia at it stands in 13
This is just a quick bullet point on what is pretty much going to become canon in Asia. Stuff in italic face represent topics I am not sure about (not necessarily canon).


 * The will expand to include , , and.
 * Parts Manchuria (the and a land connection to Korea) go to Japan.
 * Not sure whether Russia would only include all of, or simply (which was the only parts within Russia's sphere of influence).


 * The wi include, the , , and parts of Manchuria (see above).


 * will become a dominion of the.
 * Hong Kong would also expand about 20 miles inland.


 * will be incorporated into the.


 * will gain independence.
 * Not sure whether it would include or only a smaller area.


 * will regain complete sovereignty and independence from the European spheres of influence as a republic.


 * ,, , , and parts of will be divided between , , and the.
 * France and Portugal retain their claims, and all are incorporated into that nation.
 * is divided into several dominions and crown colonies within the United Commonwealth.


 * and southern (to be renamed "") will gain independence as republics. Portions of northern Pakistan are merged into Afghanistan (which will most likely remain a monarchy).


 * will remain a, and will be incorporated into the Netherlands as "Ceylon."


 * The will remain a protectorate of the United Commonwealth.


 * will be divided up into several Dutch countries (dominions) and two sultanates.


 * will remain Portuguese, and will be incorporated into the kingdom.


 * will gain independence.


 * Both the British and Dutch claims on will gain independence and unite into a single nation.
 * Not sure whether they would become a republic.


 * and will remain independent monarchies under the names of "Persia" and "Siam" (respectively).


 * The British claims in are incorporated into the United Commonwealth.
 * The emirates of the, , and are incorporated as crown colonies.
 * Not completely sure about, and .

Wars in 13

 * Defined


 * (1789-1791)
 * French Revolt (1789-1792)
 * Haitian Revolution (1791-1800s)
 * (1795-1797)
 * First Latin American Revolutions (1800s)
 * Fifth Anglo-Dutch War (1800s)
 * Louisianan Revolution (1810s)
 * West Florida Revolution (1810s)
 * Rebellions of 1837 (1837-1838)
 * "Revolutions of 1848" (1840s)
 * (1861-1863)
 * Second Latin American Revolutions (1880s-1890s)
 * Venezuela War (1890s)
 * Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895)
 * Chinese Revolution (1911)
 * Liberia War (1980s)


 * Potential

Portugal in 13



 * "States"




 * (may exclude )
 * (see )
 * (see )
 * (see )
 * (see )
 * (see )
 * (see )
 * (see )


 * Potential names


 * Portuguese Commonwealth/Community &mdash; originally used on this timeline, and also found here and here
 * (see also ).
 * Comunidade Portuguesa
 * Lusitanic Commonwealth
 * Comunidade Lusitânica
 *  Kingdom of Portugal.


 * Naming rationalizing

The term "Lusitania" (and all which relates to it) tends to be in common use for Portugal and other areas of the former Portuguese Empire. With that, it doesn't seem that odd for the empire to rename itself upon becoming an imperial federation under the Britannic-lines. In comparison:


 * "Batavia" (the Netherlands) was once used, but was more used by the pro-French puppet government during the Napoleonic Wars. Also in contemporary comparison, the Kingdom of the Netherlands in Dutch is called Nederlanden ("Netherlands") while the European nation itself is called Nederland ("Netherland").


 * "Britannia" in many cases may be used in the United Commonwealth.


 * "Gaul" for France doesn't appear to be in any use (with the exception of Charles de Gaulle).


 * JUST REMEMBER FOR LATER

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/French_Union_%28Twilight_of_a_New_Era%29

Overview
Much like what the United States adopted OTL, New Netherland would establish an electoral collage as the means of electing a president. The only noticeable difference is that each state (despite their population) has the same number of delegates. This would go back to how the legislature of New Netherland would be established, in which all the states are equal (following the Articles of Confederation and the New Jersey Plan).

Under the current set-up, each state receives 27 electoral votes, with the Capital District (Albany) receiving three. Every state (if not the majority) use the "winner-take-all" stategy, in which a candidate needs only to win half of the popular vote and one to receive all the electoral votes of that state. In effect, the candidate to win the majority of states wins the election. It is a crazy idea that suffers the flaws of OTL (including gerrymandering, Red/Blue states, and the possibility of the popular vote not matching with the electoral vote). Because of this system, it encouraged the admission of an odd number of states (to prevent a tie in the electoral collage).


 * Maroon (Progressive) states


 * Hudson
 * Niagara


 * Teal (Liberty) states


 * Iroquois
 * West Jersey


 * Swing states


 * East Jersey
 * Genesee

Russian America: To-Do-List

 * Redo the Republics of Russia:0:0
 * Presidential and political party suggestions


 * Redo States of the United States:0:0 and territories


 * Reconsider Borealia:0:0


 * Redo States of Polynesia:0:0


 * Redo subdivisions of Japan:0:0


 * Re-examine Germany and Italy


 * Possibly bring back Tahuantinsuyo:0:0
 * Explore Chile without getting Bolivian-Peru territories


 * Rename Queen Charlotte:0:0?


 * Other ideas


 * (Аляскинские авиалинии, Alyaskinskiye avialinii)
 * (Горизонт, Gorizont')
 * Gorizont:0:0
 * Gorizont-Alaskan Airlines (possible combined name like "Aeroflot - Russian Airlines")
 * Горизонт – Аляскинские авиалинии, Gorizont - Alyaskinskiye avialinii)
 * 


 * Chukotka US-Russian Heritage Flag


 * File:Russian_Sloop-of-War_Neva.jpg


 * Links


 * http://www.cherylannestapp.com/fort-ross/
 * http://www.russianwashingtonbaltimore.com/en/node/22629
 * http://newmnflag.com/2008/01/15/flags-of-other-states-in-question/
 * http://zebratigerfish.blogspot.com/2012/06/american-mexican-state-heritage-flags.html

Plains, Trains, and Automobiles

 * A bridge or tunnel connecting Baranof Island (New Archangel) with the rest of the country would have a length around the same as the in Denmark or the.
 * Climate and ice may be an issue.
 * It may be easier to have a connection through Yakutat via the . Though this would mean going close to a glacier.

Olympic games held in Alaska

 * &mdash; (bid)
 * &mdash; (offered)
 * &mdash; (bid)
 * &mdash; (bid)
 * &mdash; (won)


 * Updates


 * Given that Vancouver was a loosing bid in 1976 (being in fourth place) and Whistler was only offered the games after Coloradans voted against hosting the games. Likely just leave this alone.


 * I'm rather surprised that Anchorage not only bid to host the games, but did surprisingly well in almost winning the games in 1992 and 1994 (with talks of future bids for the 2020s). While weak in '92, its bid for the '94 games showed success, winning third place (beating Sofia, Bulgaria). Given that the city would be part of nation that hasn't hosted the games by this point (Noway hosted the games in 1952 and Sweden in 1912), Alaska may win in '94. Anchorage wouldn't exist ATL, so likely it would be either Saint Nicholas (Kenai) or Vasiliysk (Wasilla). The former is more popular IMHO.


 * It is already canon that Vladikaskady (Eugene) hosts the 2010 games. Though I'm now debating whether to have it hosted in New Westminster:0:0 instead (which is OTL Vancouver).

Nuclear power in Alaska

 * (WA)
 * (AK)
 * (WA)
 * (OR)

Design of the Chervonets
The chervonets would depict early explorers and administrators of the Pacific Northwest. While mostly Russians, other explorers (American, British, and Spanish) may also be represented). The reverse would depict a landmark based on the region that person explored.


 * People of interest (year of key explorations)


 * (1740s)
 * (1780s)
 * (1800s)
 * (1790s)
 * (1790s)
 * (1810s)
 * (1810s)


 * List

Alaskan and Russian Antarctica

 * See also: File:All Antarctic Claims past and present.PNG and Expeditions map



With a larger say globally, the Russian Empire would stake a larger say in Antarctica (nothing major, just more than OTL). This will culminate in Russia formalizing their claims by the early 1900s. The Russians would claim the areas discovered and charted by (who was the first European to sight the continent in 1820), which correspond roughly to the same area currently under dispute between Argentina, Chile, and the United Kingdom (OTL).

After the collapse of the Russian Empire, both Alaska and the Soviet Union claim the territory. Aside from both sides moving to legitimize their claim with surveys and stunts (not to mention the collapse of the USSR), nothing has been done to resolve this dispute (at least between these two).

For the most part, the rest of Antarctica would be the same. The only exceptions would be that Alaska and Russia make claims (in which the Antarctic Peninsula is now disputed by five state), Peter I Island is not claimed by Norway, and the US goes further and claims.


 * Historic notes


 * Prior to the collapse of the Russian Empire, its Antarctic claims were not organized into a territory. The Alaskans and the Soviets would be the first to organize it.


 * "Alaskan Antarctic Territory"


 * Under Alaskan law, their Antarctic territory is an "organized unincorporated oblast." In affect, this makes their Antarctic claim similar to how Guam and Puerto Rico act within the United States (OTL).
 * Under the Alaskan constitution, an oblast is regarded similarly to how they were under the Russian Empire (i.e., a territory).


 * A base within the claim may act as a capital of sorts, though the majority of the territorial governing would be done in Alaska (likely New Archangel).


 * Potential names (aside from the "Alaskan Antarctic Territory") could be "Alexander Land" (based on the historic name of Alexander I Island). I will be ignoring any name based on "Bellingshausen" (due to my other timelines and projects which use the name ).


 * "Soviet/Russian Antarctic Territory"


 * Under the Soviet Union, the territory may likely be administrated as part of the Russian SFSR (i.e., not a union-wide territory, or is at least vague in this respect). Maybe something along the lines of an "autonomous krai" (krai commonly being translated as "territory"). See also .


 * After the collapse, the Russian Federation would take control of the territory. Under Russian law, it may be similar (in comparison) to what and  are to Russia (but considered more a part of Russia). The term "autonomous krai" or "autonomous territory" may remain in affect.

Electoral college of Alaska

 * Flag of Alaska.svg Aleutia:0:0 &mdash; 7
 * Flag of Bering (Russian America).svg Bering:0:0 &mdash; 8
 * Flag of Charlotte (Russian America).svg Charlotte:0:0 &mdash; 11
 * Flag of Columbia (Russian America).svg Columbia:0:0 &mdash; 33
 * Flag of the Far North (Russian America).svg Far North:0:0 &mdash; 6
 * Flag.svg New Archangel:Federal District:0 &mdash; 4
 * Flag of Idaho (Russian America).svg Idaho:0:0 &mdash; 15
 * Flag of Kenai (Russian America).svg Kenai:0:0 &mdash; 19
 * Flag of Kodiak (Russian America).svg Kodiak:0:0 &mdash; 9
 * Flag of New Caledonia (Russian America).svg New Caledonia:0:0 &mdash; 18
 * Flag of New Irkutsk (Russian America).svg New Irkutsk:0:0 &mdash; 8
 * Oregonian New Flag Contest Winner.svg Oregon:0:0 &mdash; 35
 * Flag of Shelikof (Russian America).svg Shelikof:0:0 &mdash; 19
 * Russian Border Guard.svg Sitka:0:0 &mdash; 20
 * California Lone Star Flag 1836.svg Sonoma:0:0 &mdash; 28
 * Flag of Tongass (Russian America).svg Tongass:0:0 &mdash; 11
 * Flag of Vancouver Island.svg Vancouver:0:0 &mdash; 14
 * Flag of Yakutat (Russian America).svg Yakutat:0:0 &mdash; 8
 * Flag of Yukon (Russian America).svg Yukon:0:0 &mdash; 10


 * Flag of Alaska (Russian America).svg Alaska:0:0 &mdash; 283

Expansion of the Russia Federation

 * See also: Russia's territorial comeback and Ukraine splits


 * Note to LG

Not sure what you'll make of this idea, but as always, I do request that you take it easy if this makes no sense. I look forward to your reply.


 * Background

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, there has been several attempts to reunify much of the Soviet Union back together in one form or another. While none of these projections have taken place, to me there appears to be enough opening that reunification may be possible ATL. While no USSR, the most likely reunification would include Russia expanding into former Soviet republics which would support such reunification.


 * Keys


 * becomes President of Russia in 1993. Along with being more "Soviet" in comparison to Yeltsin, Rutskoy has expressed his support for the break-away republics of the former USSR: including the and  (as well as threatening to bomb Tbilisi over the South Ossetia issue during his Vice Presidency OTL). While I can find nothing which states his support for their annexation into Russia, to me this doesn't seem too far off (especially since much of these break-away regions are pro-Russian and wouldn't be viable as independent states without outside help).


 * Belarus' leader has expressed his interest towards a merger of Belarus and Russia. Though as the years moved on, the idea of reunification is gradually loosing support over the idea of a "Eurasian Union." Given Rutskoy's similar political standings towards Lukashenko, a merger before 2000 may be possible.
 * Lukashenko wouldn't want a unification with Russia? From my point of view, the opposite would've been the fact (i.e., Russia isn't willing to reunite while Belarus pushes it, and the time it hasn't happen left Lukashenko to realize how good he has it in an independent nation]). But I suppose something could happen with a civil war right next door.


 * Areas of interest



Other "areas of interest" could include and Manchuria:0:0 (both of which would have sizable Russian populations), and possibly (though very unlikely). Though I personally doubt these two regions should be included, especially since both would likely remain major allies of Russia and establish post-Soviet governments which the Russian residence would likely support (Kazakhstan relocated their capital further north to be closer to the Russian population).


 * WIP timeline


 * 1993 &mdash; Rutskoy becomes President. Russia's neighbors become nervous.


 * ~1995 &mdash; Russia adopts a new constitution that establishes itself as a federation of equal republics. Around the same time, a referendum takes place in Belarus, in which the people vote in favor of integration into Russia. The break-away republics also push for referendums to take place.

States of the USA



 * Background notes


 * March 1812 &mdash; 17 states


 * Late 1812 &mdash; 18 states


 * 1819 &mdash; The does not settle the issue of Spain's claims in the Pacific Northwest.


 * March 1822 &mdash; 24 states


 * August 1825 &mdash; 24 states


 * Admission of Texas?


 * Americans were already moving into Texas by the time of the POD (more or less). The main difference is that Russia's cooperation with Mexico helps keep the country stable enough to prevent the chaos at the time that lead to the Texas Revolution. Russia would also put pressure on the Americans, as a war with Mexico could also involve the Russians (on the side of the Mexicans).


 * Both and  attempted to purchase Texas from Mexico (both times rejected).


 * Following the "Canadian Revolution" and the US' annexation of Ontario, there may now exist more pressure for Mexico to sell Texas. These include the fear of America's Manifest Destiny and also from potential tensions from the "Anglos" living in Texas. Texas' admission would also balance out Ontario's admission (keeping the Free/Slave State balance).


 * The territory I see purchased would be smaller than the state OTL (let alone the large area of the Republic of Texas). Probably likely, Mexico would sell the territory east of the (which currently makes up the easternmost boundary of the ) and north of the  (which the Mexicans claimed to be the border of Texas).


 * With no period of independence, there would likely be no "Texas identity" in support for a massive state. From the area, Texas could be divided into two states: Texas in the south and a new state in the north.


 * Statehood for Greenland:0:0? (probably too much)


 * It is already canonized that the US purchases Greenland around 1947. The question here is whether it could be possible for Greenland to be admitted as a state.


 * Greenland's current population is about 56,000 people (below the required 60,000 people for statehood, and well below Wyoming's +500,000), with the population being roughly 23,000 around the time it was purchased. Seeing as the US would use Greenland for its resources and for the military, this could raise the population pretty quickly. If using Alaska (OTL) as an example, its population increased over 70% by the 1950 census, and another +70% for the 1960 census. If Greenland had a similar increase,it could be possible to reach about 100,000 people by 1980.
 * Given the different state boundaries and populations ATL, I have no idea what the lowest populated state would be (or what the low population would entail).


 * Since the US also gained much of the Caribbean ATL, they would likely be pushing for statehood (if not already) around the Civil Rights Movement. Given its military and growing American population, Greenland could be seen as a compromise addition for the non-white state in the Caribbean (I believe this is what happened with Alaska OTL).


 * In the long run, this idea may be too much. Either way, Greenland would be an unincorporated, organized territory which teeters between those who want statehood, those who want independence, and those who want the status quo.

Alaskan dialects of the Russian language


The within Alaska:0:0 is divided into several dialects which vary across the nation. In general, Alaskan Russian is partially similar to the dialects spoken in the Russian Far East. As a whole, the dialects combine elements from, , , , , , and the many native Alaskan languages.

The following list is a rough idea, combining vague boundaries and names. I also included how I would envision these dialects to be acted upon the Alaskan people.


 * Aleutian &mdash; Comprised of the islands of Aleutia:0:0, the dialects combines many elements of the . Due in part to its isolation from the rest of the nation, the dialect is often described as being hard to understand (especially by Russian speakers) and is often described as being a creole language. The best example would be how distinctive -speakers are to other English speakers. This dialect may also have its roots with the of OTL.


 * Beringian &mdash; Spoken in Bering:0:0, Shelikof:0:0, and parts of New Irkutsk:0:0; the dialects is mostly centered around the Bering Sea and the river systems which flow to it. Colloquially, this dialects is often described as a "traitorous" and "communist" speech. This is due to this being the core of the Alaskan Socialist Republic:0:0, and can be seen similar to how can be seen in the US.


 * Yukonian &mdash; Spoken in the Far North:0:0, the Yukon:0:0, and the core of New Irkutsk:0:0; the dialect focuses on the Upper Yukon River region. In many cases, the dialect is betrayed as being a "prospector" or "mountain man" dialect. It should also be noted that the growing diversity in the Far North can make this area vague in what dialect it is.


 * Gulf &mdash; Spoken in Kenai:0:0, Kodiak:0:0, southern New Irkutsk:0:0, and possibly parts of Shelikof:0:0; this dialect is the direct decedent of/or is the dialect (which is slowly going extinct OTL). The dialect is often seen as being "religious" in nature (once again comparing it to Southern American English).


 * New Russian &mdash; Spoken in Charlotte:0:0, New Archangel:0:0, New Caledonia:0:0, Sitka:0:0, Tongass:0:0, and Yakutat:0:0; this dialect stretches across New Russia (focusing more on the Alexander Archipelago and coastal mountains). Because of the large immigration from Fenno-Scandinavia, this dialect combines many Scandinavian and Finnish words. For better or worse, this dialect is often described as being political.


 * Columbian &mdash; Spoken in Columbia:0:0 and Vancouver:0:0, this dialect focuses on the northern bank of the Columbia River, the lower Fraser River, and the . English plays a key role in the dialect. It is often described as being the "New Albion" or "Doug" dialect.


 * Oregonian &mdash; Spoken in western Oregon:0:0 (mostly the region).


 * Idahoan &mdash; Spoken across Idaho:0:0 and the Oregon:Oregon Panhandle:0, this dialect focuses on the and upper Columbia River. This dialect may have great influence from the  dialect. It's often betrayed as being "hillbilly" in nature, as well as being the dialect of Alaskan Mormons.


 * Sonoman &mdash; Spoken in Sonoma:0:0. The way I see this dialect would be like asking a Russian to mimic a Californian accent (dude, rad, gnarly, etc.). It's often betrayed as being "hippie" in nature.

Signature idea
NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:34, November 12, 2013 (UTC)