Roma Delenda Est

I am on holiday for 2 weeks, so this won't be updated for a while
The point of divergence of this timeline is that Publius Cornelius Scipio was killed instead of wounded in the fight near Ticinus, and Sicipio Africanus wasn't allowed to go to Africa (much like in Delenda Est, but there, they both are killed by time travelers). This allows Carthago (Carthage) to win the second Phoenician war (Punic war). Another point of divergence is that the fleet carrying the treaty between Carthago and Makedonia (Macedonia) isn't intercepted by the Romans, and thus the treaty is formed and, as the Romans do not know about it, surprises them and makes it easier for Hannibal to conquer Roma. As a result, Graece is united under Philip V with the help of Carthago. Perhaps more points of divergence will be added later, perhaps not.

Roma Delenda Est is created and maintained by nlspeed, who would appreciate it if none edits this or any related pages without his premission. If you have any additions, proposals, suggestions, critic, or anything else, you may edit this page and add anything you wish under the header 'User Additions', which is way down. Thanks in advance.

Roma Eterna?
After Hannibal Barca (also known as Hannibal the Lion, Hannibal the Great, Hannibal the Conqueror, and Hannibal of Roma (but some consider that a degorative term) conquered Roma in 210 BC, the second Phoenician war was over. Carthago had won, and the Imperium Romanum was no imperium anymore, for its caesar and parts of its senate had been killed. Indeed, Romanum crumbled and fragmented into competing city states, and Hannibal urged the Barca family to send more troops to Romanum. While the council and the suffets were against it, they were a minor power, for the Barca family ruled Carthago, and Hannibal finally got reinforcements. Eventually, the Romanum peninsula was occupied by Hannibal and his troops, and others, and slowly the core of the imperium became part of Carthago. The allies of Carthago were rewarded, and those who had joined or helped the imperium were hunted and destroyed. But while the core of the imperium had fallen, various cities had formed alliances and pacts with each other, and the possessions in Hispania were threatened by this. In the Romanum peninsula, there were many troops to keep the peace and thus no one dared to move against Carthago there, indeed, Carthago took over the whole Romanum peninsula with little to no resistance, but in Hispania, only a small amount of troops were located. That is why Hannibal and his new army was sent to Hispania, to conquer the resisting city states. The city states, which had no legion and only a few professional soldiers, were no match for Hannibal and by 209 BC, Carthago was a giant super power. The tribes in Europa didn't invade Carthago's possessions in Hispania or the Romanum peninsula because they were friendly towards Carthago, and some even allied with them and helped them to defeat the imperium. And while Graece eyed all this with a wary eye, there seemed to be no army coming towards them, despite Philip V's urgings and besides the Carthago-Makedonia treaty. Carthago merely resumed trading and doing like it had done before the imperium declared war, but now from the position of an actively expanding super power, and with the help of barbarians should the need arise. And it claimed the rebels weren't yet fully rooted out.

The Carthago-Makedonia Treaty
However, in 208 BC, Carthago gave in and Hannibal and his army were sent to Graece, after king Philip V yet again urged Carthago to send help. Hannibal, who still was in Hispania, took a galley and arrived somewhere in Graece, no records can be found (or, I don't know much about Greece around this period and can't find much too), but we do know that in the same year, the Aechean League, the Hellenicstic League, and Epirus all were conquered by Makedonia with the help of Carthago. Peace had then returned, and Hannibal was sent home, but Makedonia wanted more, and in the next year, 207 BC, invaded Pergamon, Bithynia, and Galatia. It was a resounding success, with only a few casualities and many, many victories. The Ptolemaic Empire eyed this a bit warily, as it had a few oversea possessions, and the Seleucid Empire wasn't happy with the new, large, and united Graece on its borders. And it had reasons to not be happy, because 3 years later, in 204 BC, Graece's armies marched again, to conquer the western tip of the Seleucid Empire. But the Seleucid Empire had a large army on its borders and had seen this coming, they were prepared, and were much larger. But Graece's armies were better, and they conquered the western tip of the Seleucid Empire, yet with heavy casualities, and Graece sued for peace. The Seleucid Empire should really have continued warring, because Graece was exhausted with such rapid expansions and the Seleucid Empire could perhaps have taken the whole eastern part of Graece, but they agreed to a peace treaty instead.



Note that every single map gives different borders and such, so I by no way claim that this map resembles the ancient world. In fact, I think the Seleucid Empire, and the Ptolemaic Empire don't have their correct borders, and I know that Parthia, the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom, and the Mauryan Empire don't have their correct borders, but let's just say that's because a different point of divergence.

Senatus Populusque Carthagus
Not everything stayed the same however, Carthago adopted a more Roman government (and no, it wasn't called the SPQC, the Senatus Populusque Carthagus, that's just a fancy title). The wary and fearful politicans making up the council and the suffets had very nearly ruined Hannibal's chance at taking Roma. They had done it so many times before, recall a general, deny him supplies, all in order to keep them from growing too powerful. But now, with the Barca family controlling Carthago, the Barca family demanded that the government was reformed, in a more Roman way. After many days of discussion, it was decided. The Barca family would control the military, planning campaigns and such. As long as a general did his work, and did it well, he wouldn't be recalled and he would be given supplies should he ask for them. But before executing campaigns, the Barca family would ask the council and the suffets if they agreed. If more then 50% agreed, the Barca family could proceed. Important decisions could be voted on by the mere citizen, each city had a single vote, and it had 2 weeks to declare its vote. Each citizen of a city would be able to vote, and depending on what the majority of the citizens voted, the city would cast its vote. Cities (and thus citizens) were only able to vote wether they agreed or disagreed with a proposal of the council and the suffets.

After this drastic reformation, in 206 BC another reformation took place. Now, the suffets were the only beings capable of putting forth proposals, on which the council could vote. The votes of the councils were added to the votes of the cities, and that way it was decided wether Carthago agreed or disagreed with the proposal.

In 204 BC, yet another reformation took place, the council was now able to also put forth proposals, and the suffets were now able to veto any proposal as long as they both agreed with the veto. The Barca family still controlled the whole military, and they could still propose campaigns and things having to do with the military, and their proposals couldn't be vetoed. But the Barca family also couldn't vote on proposals.

The Great Seleucid-Ptolemaic War
In our timeline, the Fifth Syrian War began in 204 BC, with the dead of Ptolemy IV of the Ptolemaic Empire. His heir was the child Ptolemy V, and conflict broke out over who would be the heir. Antiochus III of the Seleucid Empire decided to take advantage of this and invaded Coele-Syria once again, and negotiates an alliance with Philip V. Antiochus III would take Sidon before being stopped by Roman emissaries demanding that he (and Philip V) would not invade Egypt.

In this timeline, there are no Romans, and Antiochus III obviously isn't interested in an alliance with Philip V. He still invades Coele-Syria in 204 BC, and continues to conquer. He faces minor defeats, but major victories, and eventually, in 198 BC, the Ptolemaic Empire has lost all its territories outside of Africa and negotiates a harsh peace, leaving the Ptolemaic Empire cripled. Cyprus and the small Ptolemaic possessions in Graece were conquered by the opportunistic Philip V. Graece only has a relatively small army left and is overexpanded, but somehow Philip V manages to hold control over Graece. The taking of Cyprus however does increase tensions between Graece and the Seleucid Empire. In 197 BC, Antiochus III once again invades the Ptolemaic Empire, and after a long war with many losses on both sides, the Ptolemaic Empire is conquered by Antiochus III in 182 BC. Thus, the Fifth Syrian War, also known as the Great Seleucid-Ptolemaic War, ends. Nearly immediately, rebels take over and it splits in many small tribes. Inspired by this, various rebellions erupt in the whole Seleucid Empire. It has grown too large, is very corrupt, has only a very small army left, and had minor unquelled rebellions for too long. Graece and Parthia have built up their armies and are ready to take over parts of the Seleucid Empire, but Graece faces a few minor rebellions too and Parthia waits to see how the situation unfolds, so no invasions takes place. In Europa, barbarian tribes begin to fuse with Carthago, or vice versa, which results in the first civilized barbarians, and sets the stage for independence of northern (anything in Europa) Carthago.

Ruins of Ptolemaic
One has to understand that all these various nations aren't nations, but tribes warring with each other. Quickly, they would be absorbed into larger empires. When the Seleucid armies had conquered the western part of the Ptolemaic Empire and were fighting in the southern parts of it, what is here displayed as Kartagh already claimed it wanted to be part of Carthago. It had only spouted minor rebellions when the Ptolemaic Empire ruled over them, but now they had their chance. They were the first nation to rebel, and shortly after their self declared independence, a small part of Kartagh declared independence from both Kartagh and the Seleucid Empire, for they didn't want to belong to Carthago or the Seleucid Empire, and because they had no army to protect theirselves, they turned towards Graece and called theirselves Makedos in honor of Makedonia. Kartagh didn't refuse, and so the first 2 independent nations were established.

But they were quickly followed by the Chra Ptolemey, claiming that they would form the new Ptolemaic Empire, a tolerant, free, rich, and benevolent empire. They had a large army to back this up, and within a few months, they were the only ones of the rebel states to border the Seleucid Empire. And many wanted the Seleucid Empire destroyed, for life in the Seleucid Empir was far worse than life in the Ptolemaic Empire. It thus was logical that the rebel nations emerging around Chra Ptolemey eventually merged with Chra Ptolemey. The Tjoser-Chisi Union, an union between 2 major rebel leaders resulting in a single nation, decided to join the Chra Ptolemey only a few weeks after it (the Tjoser-Chisi Union) was formed, and the isolationistic, despotic Hedji was also persuaded to join the Chra Ptolemey, and althogh reluctantly, it did join. Horchoi, ruled by the family Horchoi, was, like many other nations, simply a nation created because the people didn't want to be part of the Seleucid Empire and voted for highly valued members of their area to rule them. And the people of Horchai wanted to be part of something with potention, so it joined the Chra Ptolemey after a few other nations had joined it, recognizing their opportunity. Upper Blemmyes, although a bit backwards and highly despotic, had resisted the Seleucid invaders at every possible moment, and gladly joined the Chra Potelemy, although the other nations of the Chra Ptolemey didn't really like Upper Blemmyes.

Elsewhere, to the west, Carthago agreed to annex Kartagh, while Graece agreed to annex Makedos. Kartagh, which had a larger army than the other rebel nations and the support of Carthago, had previously agreed to protect the Kingdom of Bruis (which also had an army, but a smaller one), Marmarica, Cyrenaica, Tyrravias, and Uthocar. However, while Kartagh wanted to be part of Carthago, the rest didn't, and thus Carthago and Kartagh (but mainly Carthago) gave a small part of their army to the Kingdom of Bruis, which had agreed to continue protecting the 3 smaller, unprotected rebel nations. In practice, the Kingdom of Bruis ruled over the other 3 rebel nations, but only a few weeks later were the 3 rebel nations peacefully annexed by the Kingdom of Bruis. Then, the Kingdom of Bruis negotiated peace, and a slightly different border with the Char Ptolemey.

The Despotism of Chipco was a threat to the others, it was aggressive, warlike, had a (relatively) large army (of mercenaries and barbarians), and seemed to have spies and assassins wherever they wanted. Due to the barbaric rule and the many battles their people endured (all internal, like power struggles), only the barbarians and mercenaries stayed, while the normal civilians fled to Issui or Icktus. Thus Chipco declared that Issui and Icktus had stolen their people, and that they should pay dearly for that. Uthocar, and the Kingdom of Bruis, welcomed this news with open arms, for the many troops on their borders moved away, Uthocar was spared. However, the Kingdom of Raisch, small, but with a relatively large army, had decided that in these times, rebel nations should band together and had sent troops to Icktus. If the Chipco invaded Icktus, then the Kingdom of Raisch would invade Chipco. Thus, Chipco invaded Issui, prompting the Kingdom of Raisch to invade Chipco and liberate Issui. The unorganized and wild mercenaries and barbarians couldn't hold a candle to the army of Raisch, and most fled away. And so, the Kingdom of Raisch had annexed 3 nations. Diplomatic channels were set up, borders were slightly redrawn, and peace was made.

The Zabnatru were an isolationistic nation, wary of outsiders, and perhpas a bit barbaric and primitive. The very peaceful Sokr Meroe (ruled by Sokr Meroe) had no army and only civilians with home made weapons, thus they relied on the protection of the Monarchy of Gryz and the Kingdom of Raisch. While most forces were sent in the position of the Zabnatru, the only possible threat, or so the Monarchy of Gryz thought, the quiet and peaceful Depizio Gaganth suddenly sent its forces out to burn, pillage, and do all kinds of other nasty things to Sokr Meroe. Many of these were hired barbarians, and the invasion quickly got out of hand. The Kingdom of Raisch fortified its border, and killed a few wild barbarians too. After the Monarchy of Gryz had defeated the small barbaric army, they moved on towards Depizio Gaganth demanding an explenation for this invasion. The leader of the Depizio Gaganth said that he was forced to do so by the barbaric hordes on their western borders, if they weren't recruited, paid, and sent out to attack something, they would destroy Depizio Gaganth. Obviously, the leader of Depizio Gaganth declined, and thus was killed by a few barbarians, who then lead Depizio Gaganth into war. However, the son of the original leader of Depizio Gaganth was in hiding, and was (and became) the rightful leader of Depizio Gaganth. After a few days, everything was settled, and the Depizio Gaganth would be protected by the Monarchy of Gryz. The Zabnatru slowly grew out of their isolationistic behavior, but wished to remain independent. It built up a small army of its own, and with the Chra Ptolemey, the Kingdom of Raisch, the Monarchy of Gryz, and the Empire of Aksyzrha (which also preferred to stay independent, and had already set up trade with the Arabian tribes, and had a small army consisting of volunteers from these tribes and its own citizens) surrounding it, they had nothing to fear.

It is believed that Fierqus, Vischi, and Fendorg were all lead by friends, and that they didn't do much things before talking about it with the other 2 nations, they even had a shared army. But with the power hungry Despotism of Krahnz, who believed that they were the new Ptolemaic Empire and that all the others should submit to them, on the borders of Vischi, Vischi relied much more on the Union of Cleoptais to protect itself. What was apparant for weeks was set in motion when the despot of Krahnz was killed and replaced by another one, who then commanded his forces to invade Vischi. Luckily, the shared army of the 3 bought enough time to allow the Union of Cleoptais to invade Krahnz, kill the despot, and install another leader. A few days later, the army of the former Despotism of Krahnz fled, in fear of the Union of Cleoptais. After a long talk with the other 2 nations, the Vischi asked the Union of Cleoptais if they couldn't join them. A few days later, so did the other 2 nations.

Peace had returned, and the nations all had an army to defend theirselves (but if Carthago or perhaps Graece wanted, they could have conquered the whole area). Borders were redrawn, embassies were established, and trade was done. The only threat were the barbarians and the Seleucid Empire. The Seleucid Empire however, declared that it wasn't going to invade any of the Ptolemaic nations any time soon. Many could see that the Seleucid Empire wouldn't even exist any time soon, and the succesfull rebellion only helped in the downfall of the Seleucid Empire. But in the northern parts of Carthago, in Europa, the exact opposite was happening. Barbarians became civilized.

The Iberian Union first appeared, the Iberian barbarians who had been living near Carthago there saw the greatness of its cities and the great life its people had, and decided to copy Carthago. And copy Carthago it did. The Carthaginian people were at first a bit wary, but later, they were happily trading with each other, and the Iberians regarded Carthago as their big brother, while Carthago regarded the Iberians as their backwards friends. In Gallia, the same thing happened. But the civilized Gallic people were the laughingstock of the barbarians, and as such, they jokingly called theirselves the Gallios Barbaros. Carthago protected them however, and the barbarians moved away, perhaps disgusted by the Gallios Barbaros. This caused the beginning of civilized Europa. Near the Romanum peninsula, Romans who had fled to various barbarians had settled a small area next to Carthago. Relations were very tense, and Carthago moved some of its soldiers towards Roma Nova, but allowed the Romans to live in peace as long as they did not do anything Carthago didn't like. After the Iberian Union arose, the Hispanion Union arose too, a bit to the north, and it had the occassional war with the Iberian Union and vice versa, and some time after that, the mountain dwellers lead by their king Jayo (they changed the name of their tribe depending on who was their king) settled down near Carthago too. And so, in 180 BC, the world (or at least Africa) looked completely different.

Verba volant, scripta manent
Today, Latin is still used by some, although Phoenician remains the most spoken language. The reason for the survival of Latin is that Carthago kept Romanum as it was, besides razing Roma and killing any rebels. But the common citizen didn't see much change. Slowly, Phoenician replaced Latin, but Latin spread to Graece or various barbarians. Indeed, many Romans fled out of fear after Hannibal had razed Roma. They fled to Graece, and some few to barbaric tribes, claiming that the Carthaginians were even more barbaric for they had razed Roma. Graece was at that time still divided, and besides Makedonia and anyone in its influence sphere, no one rejected the Romans. A few years later, when Graece was united, much larger, and ruled by Philip V of Makedonia, Roman citizens were only slightly more than slaves, and those who could flee did so, mainly to the Seleucid Empire and the Ptolemaic Empire. But Latin was preserved, and even, much later, studied and spoken by the upper class of the people. And the Gauls and other barbaric tribes had similar grammer which helped too.

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