User talk:Smoggy80

Blue Mars
Please see my list of constructive criticisms and suggestions on the Talk page. Louisiannan 23:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Northumbria
I raised a couple of questions about your Nortumbria page, which is still officially tagged as a proposal. Can you take a look please? Talk:1983:_Doomsday#Kingdom of Northumbria (1983: Doomsday) `Benkarnell 16:42, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

East coast trade links
Would they be trade via the sea or land?? Verence71 19:09, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I would think that it would be by sea as the area south of Cleveland contains some heavily bombed cities like Bradford, Hull, Leeds, Birmingham, York, Lincoln, and Sheffield as well as some large military bases that would've been targets like Catterick and after over 25 years any roads that had survived the bombing would be more than likely impassable. plus Cleveland has a major port and ship building capibilities.--Smoggy80 16:21, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense, in that event this place could be the Woodbridge stop-off point Lowestoft Verence71 18:19, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

As the author of a single, non-canon article, I don't have that much authority, but would it be okay to suggest naming the trade route something like the 'East England Trade Axis'? I just thought it would sound cool and would be something on which us East England editors could do a collaborative project on, and possibly act as the backbone of a potential 'League of Britons' that has been suggested. Only a suggestion, of course. Fegaxeyl 09:46, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good to me Verence71 15:21, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Organisation of British Nations
Would Cleveland and Northumbria be interested in joining the Organisation of British Nations?? Verence71 15:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I would think so, however each nation would have to have a referendum before joining, and i can't imagine both nations not wanting to join purely for economic and trade reasons--Smoggy80 15:56, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

That's fair enough. I'll just slightly edit the intro to the site so Cleveland and Northumbria have applied to join pending referendums and are not full members. If, as you seem to imply the referendums about joining the Celtic Alliance are rejected that might increase the chances of a favourable result in any such vote to join the OBN. I'm thinking that the OBN might develop along the lines of the OTL EU Verence71 16:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I have written [The Newer Map Game]]. Just read the rules and jump in! Signed by Calthrina950

World Cup 2010
The Netherlands would win, but too bad they aren't a country anymore in 1983: DD, haha. ProfessorMcG 18:24, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

i would say France or Italy would do well too but they're not doing too well in OTL either--Smoggy80 19:00, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

True British Army
Smoggy, I noticed that you had spoken to Verence about the TBA. I'd just like to point out that it was my idea originally. Nothing else, really, just trying to maintain my intellectual property. Go ahead and create a page on them, if you wish - I'd be happy to cooperate, and I'm sure Verence would be too. Hope I'm not sounding too pompous.

Fegaxeyl 15:14, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

To be honest I hadn't even notice the message Smoggy had sent to me :) Verence71 15:47, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry didn't realise that the idea was yours originally, didn't mean to step on anyones toes or anything, any info would be useful thanks--Smoggy80 09:40, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

From what I gather the TBA is what Woodbridge may have becom if things had gone wrong in that they are remanants of the old armed forces pre-Doomsday. Woodbridge had a secure base of operations whereas what became the TBA did not. If this is wrong I'm sure Fegaxeyl will correct me :) Verence71 09:54, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

You've made a good start to the TBA article. I do have one minor niggle with it though. Would an organisation calling itself the True British Army allow soldier from another countty (even America) to serve within it's ranks?? Verence71 19:12, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Possibly the TBA could see any Americans as former British citizens (as Britain founded the USA) so putting the word 'True' in their name they could be in, some wierd way, staking a twisted British claim to the US. Also as they speak English and have similar morals to the British. You've also got the problem of a reduced population, if there were a few hundred Americans who surivied on a base somewhere then i can the TBA taking them in as the more military types they have the better they can keep the local populations under control. But if you have a problem with the Americans involved i can easily remove them--Smoggy80 19:19, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

It's possible that some American troops could have escaped from the bases at Mildenhall and Lakenheath before the bombs hit so you can go ahead with having Americans in the TBA :) Verence71 19:37, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Whoops, I should probably have been paying more attention to the conversation here!

My idea for the TBA was, as Verence correctly guessed, it began as military guys getting together to reestablish order. Of course, we'd need some unscrupulous leader to lead the army to how it is today: brutal and racist. I imagine they could claim legitimacy through some form of continuation of government thing (like Essex did). Indeed, the TBA seems to be just how Essex could have become had not there been the revolution in 1990. The racism aspect would evolve from conflict in certain areas between the British White population and a group of totally innocent people who were 'blamed' for the issue. (Perhaps a roving gang of a particular ethnicity giving everyone else a bad name could come into play here.) The guys who would form the TBA would do the right thing and stop these - but then, to create a sense of order, their leader would adopt white supremacist rhetoric leading to a blood feud followed by slavery. This would work better on a small scale initially, and then as the TBA expands it spreads the ideals of enslaving anyone even slightly non-British to the point of Nazi-like racial supremacy and treating the 'others' as animals.

These are my initial ideas, which you guys are free to comment on/shoot down/improve/alter as you desire. Fegaxeyl 19:55, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Luton could be the starting point for any racism from the TBA as according to estimates from 2005 it has a significant percentage of people of Asian (19.3%) and Black descent (7.9%). Any ethnic gangs would probably just exercebate any bad feelings towards foriegners who would probably be being blamed for the events of Doomsday ie "If it hadn't been for those d***ed foreigners our country would still exist". Verence71 10:50, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Newborn
Smoggy, when you get round to writing up the WCRB bulletin of the twins' birth, could you include the news that High Minister Lee Evans of Essex sends his regards, or whatever is the correct congratulations for the birth of a royal child. You may also want to do the same for other governments. Fegaxeyl 18:53, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Europa Games
I've started a page for the games that are going to be held in Prussia in October and I was wondering if Northumbria and/or Cleveland would be taking part. Tessitore 22:35, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

probably not as both nations are more focused on team sports rather than individual events--Smoggy80 19:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's a couple of team events listed, namely football and rugby sevens. Plus I've got the persistant idea of Northumbria doing well at archery since I got the impression that it's medieval enough for people to be practicing it regularly.Tessitore 20:20, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just had a thought. If I manage to get the Duchy of Lancaster up and running in time, I'll probably have them take part in the games. Given that the old rivalry probably managed to survive Doomsday, would that 'provoke' Cleveland into taking part as well?Tessitore 17:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just had a thought. If I manage to get the Duchy of Lancaster up and running in time, I'll probably have them take part in the games. Given that the old rivalry probably managed to survive Doomsday, would that 'provoke' Cleveland into taking part as well?Tessitore 17:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, no harm in asking. Although if both of you and Southern England join the OBN there might be the chance of organising some inter-nation team competitions Verence71 19:46, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Borders
As you know, I'm writing an article for the Duchy of Lancaster. Looking at some of the maps, it appears that it'd share a border with Rheged and maybe Cleveland (I'm not sure about the latter though). In the interest of not inadvertantly laying claim to any of your territory, can you clarify where the borders of the aforementioned countries are?Tessitore 17:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Rheged is based in the former county of Cumbria, with the Barrow pennisular as far north as Ulverston and an area around sellafield (maybe 25 miles from the plant in every direction) abandonded due to radiation. I've thought about making the west boundry the M6 motorway and the south the A590.

Cleveland covers the former English counties of Cleveland, Durham, North Yorkshire (including the former Yorkshire Dales National Park), West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire.

Contact between Lancaster and Rheged
Having adopted a 'go with my gut until told otherwise' approach to the article on Lancaster, I'm finding myself heading towards a situation where contact being established with Rheged is probably going to happen sooner rather then later. You see, I figured that since they more of less share a border, then Lancaster would have it's own share of trouble from raiders. I was planning on having Lancaster respond by establishing a permanant military presence along the northern edge of their territory (the details of which I'm working on), but I figure it'd be only a matter of time before a patrol went chasing after a group of reavers and ended up encountering one of the southern Rheged towns. The question is, how much time. Since Rheged is yours I thought I best for us to discuss the matter before I did anything in that department.Tessitore 01:13, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

i think it could've been fairly soon after the people started coming out of the walled townships, say late 1990's, maybe 98?. Also once Cleveland took over the NRCO towns in Yorkshire in 2003 Cleveland would've shared a border (or close to one) with Lancaster, and at roughly that time Cleveland started trading with Rheged, so i cant see why they wouldn't have started trading with Lancaster as well.--Smoggy80 18:15, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, thanks. Interestingly, it's starting to look like the northern most portion of Lancaster is going to end up looking a fair bit like Rheged, ie, lots of fortified townships. The main differences of course are the fact that said towns are guarded by Lancastrian soldiers rather then just the inhabitants, and the fact that they answer to a centralized government. Feel free to have a look at what I've done so far and tell me what you think, if I've goofed I'd rather know now then a month or more down the line.Tessitore 18:46, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay I've added the bit about Rheged and Lancaster making contact, tell me what you think.Tessitore 22:17, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay I've added the bit about Rheged and Lancaster making contact, tell me what you think.Tessitore 22:17, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Albion
Owen has taken it upon himself to make this article for you. Which is something I suspect you don't want, and he's been messing with Cleveland too.

Thought you should know.

Lordganon 19:59, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I think I may have had something to do with Owen's latest round of bizarre behaviour, although to be fair all I did was point out that the term 'Kingdom of Albion' was taken, along with most of the north of England. I'm not sure how he went from that to writing the article in question but I suspect that unconvetional mental wiring may be involved. On the bright side at least it isn't Manchester this time. Tessitore 22:42, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

It looks like he's trying to take over a section of Lancaster (with the republic of Bury) as well as my pages? is there anything that can be done about it?--Smoggy80 18:18, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Kingdom of albion
is it ok to use your material for the Kingdom of Albion (1983: Doomsday) BTW I agree this should be a successor state to the Kingdom of Cleveland (1983: Doomsday) and the Kingdom of Northumbria (1983: Doomsday) cheers --Owen1983 16:07, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

there is no kingdom of albion as the countries of Cleveland and Northumbria have not joined and will not join for a very long time as they're waiting for a prince to come to the throne who is only 2 months old!--Smoggy80 17:51, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

TSPTF
I have nominated you to become a constable--Owen1983 19:13, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Rugby
I noticed that there weren't any rugby clubs on the Sports in Cleveland page, which given that it's pretty popular around here in OTL stuck me as odd. I posted a list of potential clubs on the talk page, although there's probably more then is realistic. What do you think?Tessitore 17:53, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I've had a look and added a section, hopefully i'll add to it over the next few days, thanks for the info by the way--Smoggy80 18:13, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. By the by, are you set on Cleveland and Northumbria not taking part in the Europa Games? I'm just asking because I actually had both countries in mind when I wrote the events programme and included sports that I thought would appeal, namely football and rugby sevens (Cleveland) and archery (Northumbria).Tessitore 18:22, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

i had been thinking about taking part? so take that as a yes that Cleveland and Northumbria will be taking part!--Smoggy80 18:29, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, great. Hmm, given that Lancaster will be taking part (if I get it sorted in time anyway), the old rivalry might rear its head.Tessitore 19:37, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

interesting stats
i've been looking round on the internet and found a useful section on the effects of the blastwind from the nuclear blast. Anyone got any ideas where i can put it?--Smoggy80 18:13, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Site
Actually, is probably the better place for it. Mitro 18:45, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks i've added them now, hopefully they'll be useful--Smoggy80 18:49, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

the reason i nominaed you
the reason i nominated you is you are a good editor not as certain people win your graces in order to influence you there is a memberwho is easily influenced IMHO this makes it unfair for other users--Owen1983 23:08, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a member who is easily influenced? Really Owen, tell me who do you think that is? Mitro 03:47, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

amendmants to Editorial Guidelines
I noticed on the tips page it gives advice when in doubt it was nuked IMHO this advice doesn't give editors a lot of freedom in my vie it should be changed to when in dodt do research--Owen1983 16:07, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * The When in doubt it was nuked is for when research hasn't lead to a conclusion.Oerwinde 16:48, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

I still think an emphasis on research is good becuse lets say you were writing about a small island in the pacific the first thing in deciding whether ot was nuked is to check if there was a submarine base which would make an obvious Soviet target but creating an article at you are unsure about a deciding it was nuked when it wasn't would be implausible --Owen1983 17:49, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

If theres an obvious Soviet target then its not in doubt then is it?Oerwinde 19:19, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey guys, I don't think Smoggy's talk page is the place to discuss this. Mitro 20:05, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

North Yorkshire
I know that Cleveland has dibs on North Yorkshire, but would you mind terribly if I purloined a teensy bit of the western side, specifically the part to the west of the Yorkshire Dales. Judging by Google Maps the biggest towns in the area are Settle and Skipton. After all, people in that area have probably had more contact with Lancaster then Cleveland.Tessitore 20:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

How about we make the border the River Wharfe as far south as Otley, then make the border the A65 to the outskirts of nuked Bradford, and northwards from the the source of the Wharfe, over the summit of Dodd Fell Hill and Great Knoutberry Hill then north west to follow the A684 to the M6? that gives you about half of the Dales? and both Settle and Skipton. It'll make the border roughly the high ground of the Dales, basically any rivers flowing east are in Cleveland, anything flowing west is in Lancaster (roughly that is) hope thats ok? south of Bradford how about using the M62 to the outskirts of nuked Manchester as the border?--Smoggy80 17:43, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. The border being the high ground of the Dales is more or less what I had in mind anyway since it makes sense to use the geography rather then arbitary lines. Plus I've driven over there a fair few times and I rather like the image of a lone border marker or border post in the middle of nowhere. I'll have to have a whack at doing a map sometime, although my currently tricky computer is getting in the way at the moment.Tessitore 19:47, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * There could be two border crossing points, one on the A59, one on the A65. I think any of the smaller roads would've gone out of use in the 25 odd years since DD so there wouldn't need to be any border crossings. I think having the tops of the hills, and ridges as borderlines will be best as they would be the natural places to have the borders--Smoggy80 17:41, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Kingdom of shropshire
Thanks for the info given the location i think it would have survived but they would be a problem with radiation and refugees from nuked cities IE Nottingham and Wales many of them would be suffering from radiation sickness--Owen1983 21:29, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Trains
Just thought I'd let you know, I did some research and found that Lancashire had a train works until it closed down in Febuary 1983. It was reduced to doing repair work towards the end but I reasoned that it wouldn't be too hard to get it up and running again. Looks like Cleveland has some competition when it comes to making trains, although Lancaster would probably have to import a lot of the necessary raw materials from Cleveland.Tessitore 20:43, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Edited to add: Since both Lancaster and Cleveland had operational train services prior to the two countries being linked by rail, do you think it'd be appropriate if they'd made an event of the line opening? I've just got this mental image of a Black Five pulling into Middlesbrough and a Peppercorn pulling into Lancaster as more or less the same time, with the platforms crammed with cheering onlookers. Maybe one or two reunions between friends and family members who were on opposite sides of the country on Doomsday and were concequently seperated for years.Tessitore 22:59, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah thats sounds great, a grand opening would be interesting to organise--Smoggy80 15:43, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Contact
I've added a bit about first contact between Lancaster and Cleveland. I have something of a flair for the dramatic but I've managed to keep it to a minimum. Please let me know what you think.Tessitore 12:31, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations
You are now a Constable in the TSPTF. This allows you to showcase the TSPTF membership badge on your user page. Furthermore it gives you the rollback power on this wiki. In the History page of an article you will notice a new option called "rollback". This is an anti-vandalism tool. It allows you to quickly undo edits in case someone has made more than one edit to a page. By clicking rollback it will immediately revert the article to a time before the offending editor edited the page. This is your most important duty. By agreeing to be a constable, you are promising to do your best to patrol for vandals and trolls.

When you get the chance, please go to the TSPTF page, and sign up for some responsibilities. In reality, none of us have the time to devote to all of the duties that are expected of an administrator of the wiki. You are expected, however, to sign up for at least three responsibilities listed in that section. These are duties that you are agreeing to carry out to the best of your ability every time you are on this wiki. I'm hoping that by doing this the members of the TSPTF can efficiently share the work load of the wiki and gives us time for the real reason we are here. Since you are only a constable and do not have the power to delete or block, do not feel obligated to sign up for any duties you do not have the powers to do.

Again, congratulations on being elected to the TSPTF and good luck. Mitro 16:35, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Scotland
What are your ideas. If Scotland wants to expand it obviously has to work in concert with the Northern English survivor states, though the rightwing politics and vehement hatred of the Celts might make relations a tad frosty. Bob 18:59, September 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was thinking of a major military invasion (over a few months) of non-claimed land in Dumfries-shire and Kirkcudbrightshire, as far west as the A713 over the next two months or so? and then taking the land surrounding Edinburgh (and overtaking the railway line that Cleveland has just built) and gaining a port on the Firth of Forth at North Berwick maybe early next year? --Smoggy80 16:16, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also i would like to improve the facts regarding the governmental structure for Scotland as well as filling in a bit more about the general population--Smoggy80 16:24, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. If you want you van be caretaker for the article. I have made a few alterations recently though. Bob 17:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Cleveland, Trade, and Cleveish-Lancastrian Relations
Just had a look at the latest updates to the Cleveland article. They're really coming along by leaps and bound aren't they? Given that real life this area is currently on its last legs, the idea of it thriving in a post-apocalyptic timeline is somewhat amusing. I have to say though, the bit about the cotton is probably going to ruffle a few feathers on the other side of the Pennines. Speaking of which, is there anything that Lancaster has that Cleveland might want. I just thought I'd ask since at the moment all trans-pennine trade is pretty much one way and Lancaster isn't that rich. That said, it's just occured to me that contact with Cleveland is probably good for them in more ways then one, since in my head they'd stagnated a fair bit before contact was made, the unfortunate result of too many years of their main concerns being getting enough to eat, keeping the human wolves a bay, and avoiding radiation poisoning. Then they find out that their old 'enemies' are not only alive but ahead of them in the recovery stakes. To put it simply, contact with Cleveland plus the ancient Lancashire vs Yorkshire rivalry acted as a much needed kick up the rear. Regarding the aforementioned rivalry, would some sort of annual or bi-annual sports competition between Lancaster and Cleveland be feasible? After all they do share a border and there's a real life competition called the Roses Tournament between Lancaster University and the University of York every year, which could have become a more general Lancaster vs Cleveland contest in this timeline, especially since people in this timeline probably need every chance to have fun they can get. The real life Roses Tournament has multiple sports but if that'd be too much it could just be a football match or maybe a tri-sport (football, rugby and cricket) event. Just a thought.Tessitore 18:10, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

In time this could develop into a series of sporting competitions involving all the survivor nations in Engand Verence71 18:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

A annual contest between Lancaster and Cleveland would be interesting, cricket has been the traditional forms of competition between Lancashire and Yorkshire (football and rugby tend to be more team vs team rather that county v county). Maybe a cricket match that takes in some of the rivalry of the ashes? as in it's played one year in Yorkshire and the next in Lancaster? it could be held end of July beginning of August as thats about the right time for the weather.--Smoggy80 17:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, sounds good. Given that it looks like cricket is a bigger deal in OTL Lancashire then Cleveland and Yorkshire, I've got a feeling who's going to be the 'Austrailia' of the two. Can we still call it the Roses though, tradition and all that? Oh, and do you think it should be something new or something that's been going a few years?Tessitore 18:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe it unofficially started shortly after the two countries discovered each other (traders playing each other) but has only become offically recognised in the last couple of years?--Smoggy80 12:57, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Preston is no more
Just thought I'd give you a heads up that due to me finding yet another thing near Preston that would've been nuked, I decided that it was probably too contaminated in that area so it was more or less abandoned after Doomsday and is still empty since a)it's near a contaminated area and b) there's not enough people to repopulate it. So any reference to Preston in the Cleveland articles are going to have to be changed. Blackpool's still okay though.Tessitore 23:11, September 30, 2010 (UTC)