Alternative History talk:TSPTF

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Visual Editor
Visual Editor is now online on the wiki. However, personally, and I have receieved the same view from others, the new editor is a bit of a pain and quite annoying. Now for those user who do not know, you can still use the old editor by changing personal preferences and choosing the "Classic Wiki-editor".

Although I would like toknow what the general opinion of this new editor is and if we should generally still use the old wiki-editor throughout the wiki? Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:46, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

I have seen a lot of people upset about the new editor, including EoGuy, LaptopZombie, and Crim to name a few, and personally have sent messages to some people showing them how to switch back to the old editor. Based on that I'd say the new editor is very unpopular. Perhaps we should hold a vote here. Mscoree (talk) 20:42, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

In Eo's case, he needs source mode- so for him it's justified. I can't speak for LZ, but Crim is being a whiny old fusspot.

I personally love the new system.

22:56, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

With regards to map games, I don't like the new editor, although for editing timelines or general articles I like it. However, I don't know if we as a wiki have the authority to change something on that scale, and I think there would be opposition if we could. I think we should just ensure that people know how to switch back if they want to.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:01, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

The new one is garbage except that it makes editing templates easier. I still use the old format  (classic or whatever). I vote to have a vote.

23:47, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

Me, I've always used source mode, seems best to edit on a tablet, In my opinion. Especially if you always use it for wikia XD. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 00:27, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, being new to the wiki, I think that the new editor is better than the old. But I do think that we should have a vote on it. Upvoteanthology (talk) 01:20, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I hate it. I want to use the old editor and had to change it in my settings. Reason why I don't like it is because it takes forever loading on my crappy school laptop, I also just want to edit particular sections when it seems to edit everything. Aternix !?  01:24, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Advantages:


 * On fast connections, it loads WAY faster cause you don't need a whole new page to be loaded.


 * Makes editing general TL pages and talkpages much easier.


 * Makes editing templates easier.

Disadvantages:

Well, not so much a list of disadvantages as a list of salty old curmudgeons.

01:48, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Source editor ftw, just give people the choice to switch between editors if possible so we are all happy? We each have different preferences and needs for the editor so lets do the best to accomodate as much diversity as possible. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:46, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Guns I don't know what you're talking about. For me, on several devices, it takes on average five times longer for the new editor to load. On top of that it makes editing large pages and templates almost impossible, and makes even the most basic edits difficult. I literally tried three times just to sign my signature on TE v. CP, before having to switch to source editor in preferences. Mscoree (talk)

Well, I dislike the new editor (primarily due to the map game issues) and the first day it came out, I figured out how to fix the problem by setting preferences. The new editor definitely needs to be worked out on a Wikia-wide scale, in my opinion.

For now, however, we can manually revert to the Classic or Source editors depending upon our preferences. Are we even sure that the TSPTF can change the default on the wiki, or is this all hypothetical?

I agree that we need to have some sort of a vote on the matter, that or the TSPTF should have a vote on the matter. But, as I indicated, this vote will really have no effect on users who can access preferences. The best solution would be to simply inform people who are upset how to change their preferences in the event that we decide to stick with the system. Yours in Wikihood, 05:50, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, so some like it and some don't. A clear solution is just to put up a guide on how to manually change personal preferences. It keeps both sides happy. I'll put up a guide on here in a few hours. I'll also put up a link for it on the community messages. Imp (Say Hi?!) 09:29, November 14, 2014 (UTC)W

We cannot disable it since Wikia staff made it.IrishPatriot (talk) 12:45, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

No, we can do that. Like what Imp said, just go to personal preferences and let the who want to keep a Classic editor disable it personally. FirstStooge (talk) 14:55, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

I meant we can't remove it completely from the wiki (i didn't mean that we can't disable it personally). IrishPatriot (talk) 15:04, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

No Liker we can completely remove it from the wiki. We can remove it wiki wide. This thread was made to discuss whether or not we should. Mscoree (talk) 15:11, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Why SHOULD we? Some of us like it, some don't, and it takes 10 seconds to change! If you don't like it, go to preferences and click a button, dammit!

23:36, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

I believe at this point the discussion is no longer about banning it outright, as a few users have voiced their opinion in keeping it. I was just trying to explain to Liker that it is possible to remove it hypothetically. Mscoree (talk) 23:43, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

I personally use Source mode for anything except Copy-Paste stuff.

Only use source mode myself.

As for removing it, Ms, no such option. It is here to stay whether we like it or not.

Lordganon (talk) 12:06, November 16, 2014 (UTC)



There is the step by step guide for those confused on how to change editing preferences. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:32, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Notice
Many people are drawing similarities between the names of Ratc333 and Ratcolor. They are not the same person. I've talked with Ratcolor. I'd go as far as saying they're opposites of each other. Going to clear this up before this becomes an issue. Thank you.

Crim de la Crème 23:09, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Woah. I was just thinking the same thing. I was like "could Ratc not have chosen a more imaginative title that Ratcolor?" Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:58, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I was initially suspicious too, but I love this guy.

Which, note, is almost certainly NOT a ringing endorsement, but still.

00:38, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

End PM3, Vandalization, and more
So, a few users on chat (Tr0llis, Toby2, Harvenard2, Mscoree and RexImperio) have started propagating the idea of forcibly ending pm3. This wouldn't have been such a problem, had one of them (Harvenard2), vandalized the pm3 main page.

Moreover, a member of the TSPTF (Toby2) seems to have indirectly allowed this to happen, as seen below.

Finally, Feudalplague is constantly portrayed as some sort of tyrant who does whatever he wants. Now, I'm not saying he doesn't have some flaws, but this is taking it too far. Sky Green 24 (P, Q ) 14:52, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Hopefully someone sees these before they are deleted. Guns is now really mad at us and cursing us off in all caps. It's all a manner of time before I'm banned from chat, and if what Guns is saying is true, before he "pays off" an admin to ban us. I don't even know what to think anymore. Tr0llis (talk) 16:07, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe Guns has a victim complex or something, but now he's saying us non admins, the people he's supposed to be moderating, are out of control and insulting to him, even though the evidence seems to say otherwise. "Guns, if we had done what you said, you would have prevented us from getting banned?" - Mscoree; they are having a conversation now about buying their innocence. Is this really how it's supposed to work? Tr0llis (talk) 16:13, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

12/10 logic. I state that I'm going out of my way to stop you from being banned, and you assume you're going to be chatbanned. I state that I'm defending you and the other people who did this on the TSPTF talkpage- true, BTW- and you assume that means I'm "paying off" other TSPTF members. I state that I'm one of the few TSPTF members here who DOESN'T actively dislike you and Ms, and you decide that means that I'm corrupt.

I mean, I can't even comprehend the illogicity of those statements.

16:11, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Great, somehow this has spiraled out of control into a completely different issue. Lordganon or one of the bias admins Guns describes are going to get one look at this and ban ms for all eternately most likely, probably Tr0llis too. Simply put he tried to uncover something far beyond him, and it's going to come off all wrong. Another thing, Guns came on chat today and immediately banned me, not sure why. Wouldn't be surprised if the people on this page were banned by Guns, "accidentally" in some cases. Harvenard2 (talk) 16:20, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

This is some bullshit right here. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:53, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

First I will give a full detailed explanation of what happened

Well here is how this started. Early in the morning i was on chat when NK suggested that PM3 be rebooted. we liked the idea, but both left so originally none of it  was taken too seriously. In the morning, i come on to find blocky and ms arguing over westphalia (i even had to kick blocky once for repeated insults hurled at the user). Here is where I resuggested the reboot. Many people were tired of the apparent mod bias (mostly those who they deemed undesirable, which were Ms and his allies). In order to enact this Ms stated we should change our avatars in a silent protest. We did, to enact a little humor and give our point across. Now at this time (before Windows eight updated and i lost all my work >:(. ) You can see my first post in the picture above. I meant to say "das good" in respoince to my accidental descaling of the picture, which i fixed. When he mentioned the banner, i said "I am not allowed to allow what those deem vandalism" (although since crim did it before i was hesitant to do anything) I mentioned johnston's tennessee because i was working on it, as well as other wiki and non wiki stuff, so i was kind of busy. Hoping guns wasnt away (because his name didnt say away under it) I went to do just that. I come back realizing that people had considered it vandalism and guns WAS away., so i rollbacked the page. Yes i know i did wrong, a lot, by even taking part in this, and i probably should have been more specific, but apart from the PM3 mods seeing it vandalism i dont see the problem here. I also should have known that it was vandalism, that i take full responsibility for.

As for the Fed issue. '''If you are going to compare someone to ISIS, do it in your head, at least until Mscoree and Tr0llis start killing Shias and Stoning gays. Seriously that was way too low a blow. '''Unfortunately it has come to a lot of our attention that not just in PM3, but the whole wiki, is biased towards some users. And seeing how everything you say will be copyedited and posted on a talk page for a kangaroo court, i shall say no more.

Thank you Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

Its funny people think Ms is going to be banned, when he isn't even on my radar for people I may potentially ban because of all the shit which has happened over the last month. Harv push his luck, lets hope one month gives him time to think. If anyone feels this needs to be extended in the TSPTF, be my guest.

You do realise Guns was trying to help you correct? Talk about burning an olive branch.

I did expect more from Toby however. And the others, this is your last warning. I don't want to know what happened, because I have seen all I need to. I just do not want any more discussion on here on this topic. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:10, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Goddammit Imp, I had all these words I was going to write and then you write this.

19:12, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Soz man, go post them up anyway. Would appreciate some backup. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:15, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Isn't a month kind of extreme? I mean we've give anonymous trolls who spam multiple pages with curse words one to two weeks on occasion. Going off what Imp said, the punishment is one month simply because "no one would object" and because "he's annoying". Basically because people are mad at Harv, rather than give him the punishment for the crime, they might as well give him a month. In my opinion that's not really fair, it brings in your personal bias/opinions on Harv. At the same time all he did was post a single image, honestly just delete it. Tr0llis (talk) 19:31, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

It's still vandalism. Anyway, it's hard to take any screenshots of chat at face value because you can't tell if they've been taken out of context or altered or whatever. Also, Guns was most definitely offering to vouch for you but apparently you thought it was a trap.

19:42, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

It's not that we thought it was a trap, it's the fact he was willing to sell his testimony basically. Regardless Imp is promising that there will be consequences for Guns, which is slightly relieving. Tr0llis (talk) 19:49, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Wow. Way to have another pointless argument-of-the-week. Literally nothing was accomplished from this giant wall-of-text on the TSPTF talk. Personally, I think we should implement stricter rules for when chat mods should kick/ban, as it seems that either a chat mod is doing too little or too much when these arguments come up. —Bfoxius (talk)

"Sell" my testimony for what, exactly? I asked one thing of you, and that's that you stop arguing with me when I said you shouldn't be banned!

Hah, funny. If there are any consequences beyond him buying me a drink (figuratively), I'm going to laugh at the absurdity of this wiki.

Harvey, you were banned for vandalizing the PM3 page.

21:13, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

I'd say concerning how its all built up over this last month a ban for a month is warranted. The annoyomus trolls get those bans because they are looking for somewhere to attach themselves to troll, if you stright-away show you won't put up with that crap and ban them, then they quickly lose interest. The bigger problem is the trolls which get latched onto the Wiki and develop a personal grudge (e.g. the whole Owen saga). They will have some friends which voch for them and they have contributed stuff, so ultimately mods feel bad about removing people who have contributed to the wiki in a postitive way. However when the treshold for a user becomes more bad contributions than good, well then its time to say no thanks and ban them to stop more bad contributions. Obviously though people will seem to be biased because they see more good contributions or bad contributions to the Wiki. I see more bad contributions from the people involved here so I say ban them. Once the majority of mods feel this way as well, then a ban will happen. Hopefully then the person improves and stops being bad. If they keep up the bad then they are banned again because then it seems they developed a grudge or something.

But when users are repeatedly banned and show no sign of correcting their behaviour, then I must just say they are neither use nor ornament. Why bother giving them the time of day to try and reason with them. They are more trouble than they are worth. Whatever happened to three strikes? Thank you for blocking Harv for a month Imp. I'd make it a year if he comes back and continues his bullshit. If you could now just deal out some more bans to people so we don't have to keep having one of these big clusterfuck arguments about a map game that'd be great.

The ISIS thing was low, but obviously 1 man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. This video explains this difference of viewpoints very well. But yeah I think its safe to say ISIS are not fighters for freedom, rather freedom to impose a horrible ideology.... VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 03:41, December 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you Von. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:42, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Minor Vandalism
Apparently this person has been vandalising articles, probably not knowing the rules of proper edict. Just decided to bring it to the attention to the TSPTF to deal with this and to disipline correctly. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 17:13, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

That anonymous IP was already blocked twice by LG and Kogasa. Only way to discipline that person is by blocking it for more longer time. FirstStooge (talk) 01:42, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

Gave him a three month block. He really is going to do no good. Hopefully gets the idea and stops visiting us. Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:19, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

Imperial Machines
Some commotion in chat came up about this timeline Imperial Machines and whether it was a derivative work or not. It does have a lot of references to Wreck-it-Ralph, but I figured I would ask the Brass for their thoughts on the matter, as in my opinion it seems to be in a gray area in that regard.

Thanks,

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 18:16, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

"Gray" is a good word for this one. This is about as close as one can get to derivative, in my opinion, and not get it deleted. Lordganon (talk) 12:52, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Upvoteanthology
I have suspended Upvoteanthology for three days. This is because he uploaded a clearly inappropriate file for the purpose of harassing another user (TechnicallyIAmSean). I have removed the file and the comments. -- 05:13, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Greatly disappointing, coming from Upvote. Too bad. 05:38, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Wow wow wow calm down. I get that it may seem as harrassing, but I request you unban him. It was a joke, and it has a seperate context. I was not offended. I actually laughed about it a lot. Tech (talk)

^ i also believe it was a joke. IrishPatriot (talk) 11:29, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

When I saw the image I too was under the impression it was a joke. Mscoree (talk) 13:50, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

It was just a joke, it was Upvotes Secret Santa gift for Tech, resembling what happened in the latest ATWar game beetween them. Though I do admit that the image might be a bit inappropriate for the wiki, I think you should Unban him due to this misunderstanding. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 15:08, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

As they all said, please have a TSPTF member unban him. Tech (talk) 15:56, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Technically, regardless of whether it was offensive or not, it was inappropriate, which is against Wiki rules. That's the cause of the ban, so he'll be back when the ban is over. It's just three days. Cour *talk* 16:06, December 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Couldn't have explained it better, Courageous. Context or not, Upvote's "gift" was poor judgement at best and still not tolerated. His suspension will remain in place. -- 19:09, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Hello, everyone. My ban has now expired, and I would like to say that I believe that although it was meant as a joke, you guys did the right thing. This wiki is simply not a place for things that I did, and I broke the rules. I did not try to harrass him, as Sean has previously said, but I am still regretting my decisions. Upvoteanthology ( Talk | Sandbox ) 20:42, December 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * He regrets, he repents. It is all good Upvote welcome back. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:50, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

Sign-ups Issue
So, if you click on the link, you might notice that there's something wrong with the sign-ups section of PM3 (or it might just be me, but that'd be even weirder). Sky Green 24 (P, Q ) 14:18, December 8, 2014 (UTC)

This belongs on the PM3 talkpage, I think, not here.

00:58, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

But you see, the issue isn't that it's outdated, the issue is that it somehow glitches when I click on that section. I checked it in source mode, but I didn't see anything wrong with it there. Sky Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 10:21, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, still belongs on the PM3 talkpage, imo.

23:35, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Wikia App
Please see this message left on my talk page. I think I am the only admin who got it. Looks like AltHistory is getting an app. Mitro (talk) 18:41, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

What is the process of making this app? Is it actually going to happen? <font color="Green">Upvoteanthology ( Talk | Sandbox )

Wow! This is really quite neat. I think its kind of ironic that, just a couple of months ago, we were discussing whether or not we could have better mobile interface, and then *BAM* Wikia comes and gives us the opportunity to do so. I just wonder: what do we, as a community, or the TSPTF have to do to get this and make it happen? 07:03, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

This is awesome! Nice Tech (talk)

This should ease up problems a lot of users face. Hopefully this will help increase contributions users can now make. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:50, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

Does this mean Recent Wikia Activity is enabled for mobile? it might be only me but i cannot view Recent Wikia Activity on mobile even if the Wikia Skin is changed. IrishPatriot (talk) 13:45, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

You have to view the full site version of the site in order to access recent wiki activity on mobile. Mscoree (talk) 15:09, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

FINALLY, PRAISE THE WIKILORDS!!! —Bfoxius (talk)

Hmmph. Good news, overall.

Really wish we knew the criteria for how they choose who to leave the note with, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 09:57, December 13, 2014 (UTC)

Minor Vandal
This user recently vandalized the homepage to 83DD. Just so you mods are aware. 15:55, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

Kingtrevor-Pittsburgh
He confessed, the picture says enough. And Edge also has proof Tech (talk)

I already banned him from chat, so the rest is up to the admins. I can't really say anything more. He could have solved all of this if he simply apologized, but he had to go on and run his mouth after he was caught. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:23, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

You lied to him, and used it agianst him, if the cops did that they SHOULD be in jail, but with all this crap in 'Merica you probley woundn't. Bottom line you lied to him to trick so he should serve his old ban. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

Oct, the myth that police officers can't arrest you if they promise they aren't a police officer, or cannot arrest you for telling some sort of other lie in order to catch you, is a myth. Mscoree (talk) 21:49, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, entrapment is a defence you can clearly use in many nations around the world against criminal liability, but only to reduce a sentence, and only if the criminal action you participated in was induced by the police's lie. Kingtrevor/Pittsburgh didn't have to be induced to come back and create a new account; he did on his own accord, and therefore wouldn't be able to use entrapment as a defence in court. Besides he's nothing more than a troll and sockpuppeter. <font color="#00008B">RichMill | Talk 00:51, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

^ Exactly. If an undercover police officer goes to your house and talks you into buying some drugs, say, when you wouldn't have normally, then that's entrapment. If you go to the undercover cop, on the other hand, you can still go down for possession.

As Rich said, Trevor already committed the crime.

Not, of course, that entrapment applies to the wiki anyway.

01:48, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

Correct. You admit something like this, and you're gone. Don't care about the context. Lordganon (talk) 09:57, December 13, 2014 (UTC)

God, I was waiting for this. And I missed it? Shame......Spartian300 (talk) 15:39, December 16, 2014 (UTC)

What of this new guy, Amekea? Could he be trevor? Frankly, I'm not sure. I am just wary of all newbies thanks to trevor. Although, I did make a sockpuppet myself once. It was to get revenge on a wiki that I despise.......Spartian300 (talk) 15:42, December 16, 2014 (UTC)

Please don't report every random new person, unless you actually have evidence of sockpuppeting. Mscoree (talk) 15:43, December 16, 2014 (UTC)

I have a strong distrust of newbies thanks to trevor. My trust must be earned. Spartian300 (talk) 16:36, December 16, 2014 (UTC)

Then go earn your trust elsewhere. If we were half as suspicious as you are, we'd have permabanned you the second you said "sockpuppet".

01:28, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

Watch out for my sockpuppet, though. I have trolling brothers, and don't trust them. If you see Mur-Dorr., then ban him. That is my sockpuppet. It will most likely be one of them. Spartian300 (talk) 10:44, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

Really, Pittsburgh is Kingtrevor? Since when he was banned from chat, I asking you one of admins to ban this Kingtrevor's sockpuppet Pittsburgh45 because is already on the title Kingtrevor-Pittsburgh.

...

Eric, he's already banned... Saturn120 (Talk/Blog) 12:05, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

But we need one of admins to block this account Kingtrevor's sockpuppet Pittsburgh45 because is already on the title Kingtrevor-Pittsburgh.

....Like Saturn said, he is already blocked. IrishPatriot (talk) 12:23, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

Eric, this thread is from a week ago. Spartian decided to reopen it for some reason. Mscoree (talk) 13:17, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

I wanted to warn you guys. I don't trust my brothers, and fear the day they find my sockpuppet. I don't use it much, but......Spartian300 (talk) 13:43, December 19, 2014 (UTC)

A) Shut up about your sockpuppet.

B) If your "brothers" DO find your sockpuppet and vandalize, you're getting banned too.

00:02, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

I thought the internet had evolved past using the brother as an excuse.

00:31, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

The internet has. The Octards have not.

00:32, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

Change your password to something they don't know. Problem solved.

—Bfoxius (talk)

Okay, I have to stop you right there. My brothers are real. I am not making this up. Just be warned. If I start making comments like, "farts" "nude party" or "plops" ban me for an hour. I will find my brothers out. And boot them off. Plus, I don't log out. Spartian300 (talk) 20:35, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal
I found this vandal trying to change an art lice, and since no admins were on chat atm, I think it is appropriate to bring it up here. Saturn120 (Talk/Blog) 16:03, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

Heh. Thanks for the note, though I do go through the edit list each day, as an fyi. =) Lordganon (talk) 12:29, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

Eric4e
So Eric is an infamous user on chat, mostly for his poor english and obssesion with Sugar Rush, Wreck it Ralph, Japan, and Sweden. Recently, JoshtheRoman started a map game, Novum Saeculum (Map Game). In this game, Eric attempted to pick Japan, though he was told he could not. The Nation was then taken by Sean. When Eric got on chat, he freaked out (screen shots will be provided), telling Sean to die and spamming all caps, as well as threatening to send pictures to Sean that Sean didn't want to see. he has had a histroy of being a brat (to be frank about it) and I fugred that the TSTPF should act on this. Sean has screenshots for this post.

Screenshots right here:

Tech (talk)

There also happened a Edit War, which Eric4e started. 20:19, December 21, 2014 (UTC)IrishPatriot (talk)

'''Please don't block me! Thanks! I really a good user now. I feeling so happy now.'''

This isn't the first time Eric has done something like this. In Alternate Nations 3 he attempted to "steal the game", in the sense that he proclaimed himself the owner and removed the actual owner. He continued to misbehave once he was banned from the game. Tr0llis (talk) 20:29, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

Yea, Eric basically killed Alternate Nations 3. I (the head mod) was on vacation for a few weeks and when I returned, the game was in shambles because of him.

—Bfoxius (talk)

Given his actions on the wiki as a whole, I have banned him for a day from the wiki and from chat for three days. If other members of the TSPTF feel that is too little, go ahead and lengthen it within reason.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:04, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

That's... I... I don't think I have ever seen Wreck-It-Ralph porn used as a threat before. Props for creativity, but anti-props for a bad attitude. Crim de la Crème 23:11, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

Would have done more like a week myself, but it's good. Lordganon (talk) 12:11, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure on what kind of drugs Eric is, but I'll have what he's having.

On a more serious note, I do believe that LG has a point. It probably should be longer, atleast the chatban. <font color="#FF0000">S <font color="#04690C">k <font color="#FF0000">y <font color="#04690C">G <font color="#FF0000">r <font color="#04690C">e <font color="#FF0000">e <font color="#04690C">n <font color="#FF0000">2 <font color="#04690C">4 <font color="#FF0000">( <font color="#04690C">P <font color="#FF0000">, <font color="#04690C">Q <font color="#FF0000">) 14:06, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, Eric has done several questionable things earlier, mainly on chat. Tech (talk) 14:29, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, we should at least extend the chatban. <font color="#3C8D0D">U <font color="#FF0000">p <font color="#3C8D0D">v <font color="#FF0000">o <font color="#3C8D0D">t <font color="#FF0000">e <font color="#3C8D0D">a <font color="#FF0000">n <font color="#3C8D0D">t <font color="#FF0000">h <font color="#3C8D0D">o <font color="#FF0000">l <font color="#3C8D0D">o <font color="#FF0000">g <font color="#3C8D0D">y  <font color="#FF0000">( <font color="#3C8D0D">T <font color="#FF0000">, <font color="#3C8D0D">S <font color="#FF0000">) 16:07, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

...To clarify, by "It's good" I meant I won't change it. One of the worst things one admin can do to another is to undercut their judgments. MP can change it should he choose to do so, but I won't touch it. In general, that goes for any judgment, barring it being far too shot or long. Lordganon (talk) 12:23, December 23, 2014 (UTC)

Stripping
Right. Things are starting to get to a point where I feel this has to be done. Although the TSPTF usually handles things pretty well, I believe that some users are crossing the limit. One of these in Guns. Now Guns is a good member of the wiki, but he tends to forget limits. Unfortunately this is reaching a critical point and I believe something has to be done. As such, I am giving Guns a warning to improve his behaviour in arguments, which I understand can get pretty heated, and to keep calm. Otherwise I would have to look into talking to other TSPTF members on stripping his constabulary.

Nothing is happening now but I believe a warning to Guns was necessary. Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:44, December 23, 2014 (UTC)

Alternate History Wiki YouTube Channel
Well, gentlemen. I have been seeing things all over the Wiki und I have decided to propose the creation of a YouTube channel for the Alternate History Wiki, my good sirs.

How would any of this work? How would this be run? Who owns it? Etc. Also if you want to make a youtube channel no one is stopping you. Mscoree (talk) 02:35, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Tbh i think someone with youtube administration experience (i volunteer as i used to run my friends youtube for his old weekly show). Along with this i also think its someone that could organize and realize whats nonsensical BS and whats appropriate to put up there. A Propoganda video against a user would be unacceptable while a Timelapse of someones Timeline or a specific event for a timeline (which would have its own category) would be acceptable

In order to prevent ridiculousness with it i do suggest that (if im given admin over the youtube channel) that the password also be given to Someone like Crim, Imp, or some other active TSPTF member to prevent it from straying off the actual purpose. Which i beleive would be to showcase our community as something productive with the communal ability to write alternative histories (which is essentially what map games are.. competitive timeline making with an algorithm to determine various outcomes all within the same timeline) However regardless of any of the bad stuff that could be done i do agree that the Youtube account could very well be used to advertise us to potential timeline makers and good potential wiki users.

Ace is on the right track i think and i think we have been a little lacking in terms of new users coming around recently and have been relatively unwelcoming at times due to that whole ratc thing. Regardless this just seems like a better way to advertise our wiki to people that would generally enjoy looking up alternate histories and map timelapses among other things.

I also do propose that some sort of trailer for Doomsday be made, i have decent video making skills so if anything i could churn one or two out to showcase one of out best timelines. This would more than not be able to show what the wiki is also about rather than just throwing up a bunch of map game timelapses.

I can help out, as I used to run a few Youtube channels. I also have experience making videos, so I can hopefully create some content. I think it would be beneficial to have some sort of content judging, where a group of people agree that a content creator can go ahead with some sort of series or video. Overall I think this is a good idea, I just wasn't sure on the specifics at first. Mscoree (talk) 02:50, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Tbh MS alot of the higher ups wont go for it if you were voted to run it.. no offense but your not on good terms with some of the people we need to convince. I dont doubt your editing ability but in terms of Content... i wont be putting up anything thats ridiculously awful looking to the channel. Id much more enjoy it being trailers for timelines if the appropriate footage could be found, and maybe a few of our top map game timelapses. Maybe a solid timelapse of timelines as well such as DD but the content being put up cant be garbage i recognize that

What would even be on the channel? Pictures with voiceover, Like those alternate history videos on YouTube? I don't quite see the purpose, although the concept seems interesting enough.

03:16, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

From what im proposing, if you can find suitable enough footage and its approved throught the correct person (aka the admin of the youtube acct) then i was thinking trailers or things promoting your Timeline. Like doomsday could easily just be mass effect music set to nuclear explosion and world war three clips (since those are aplenty to be found downloaded and repurposed into something).

Along with this a timelapse of your specific timeline showing change over history giving a short summary of events (if produced well enough) could make its way up there. If we find someone with a good enough kind of announcer or production value voice a voiceover could in fact be done. Eiplec earlier made a timelapse of the whole first century of PMIII rather sucessfully (if not a rudimentary test though) and hes begun work on other centuries at my direction for music and how to go about it.

To be honest we need to be careful about what we post on there and how we would decide to present ourselves if we went through with it. We need to be putting quality content on this sort of thing. Something that we can watch as a nonmember of the wikia and come away with the impression that we are in fact an open community that caters to quality content. There are plenty of alternate history kind of people out there and im sure having high quality videos, trailers, timelapses, voiceovers, would be an extremely good way to promote ourselves and probably gain some relatively high quality membership, and if not high quality at least people that can eventually acheive and reach a high quality contributor status.

Tl;DR: The Youtube channel is a place to promote the wikia, put up quality content of any sort relating to our Timelines, Games, among other things, and all and all showcase our wikia to the kind of people that would be searching Youtube for those kinds of videos. This would in turn attract a higher quality of membership or at least a new membership that could eventually reach high quality contribution status.

I have several Youtube Channels and have some experience with video making. I was just thinking that all members or administrators would acknoledge who made a video with a splash of their name during the video. (ex, X is the admin, Y makes a video TL, X uploads Y's video with Y's name as the video maker.) So I was thinking that no credit would be given to one sole admin as we are a collective group and also diverse in our areas of history.

Aternix !?  06:19, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

For starters, you're mistaken if you think there'd be a vote there. Nor do you have the authority to call for one.

Past that, I fail to see a point or need for this.

Lordganon (talk) 07:50, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but i don't find this channel under name Alternate History Wiki. Can we make a new channel on Youtube now?

How do you not see the promotial ability of a youtube channel.... considering the kinds of creative people, not to mention how specific searching  for alternate history is.. it would probably draw some newly needed higher quality membership which considering the absolute trolls and non contributing users we usually get would be a welcome change. As for his authority to call a vote.. it definitely doesnt seem like an authority... it was to gauge how many people would actually like to see an active youtube channel..

Nothing stops ANY of us from just going and making a fan channel that links to here. If managed correctly i see no reason for this not to happen as an offsite presence of the wikia for advertising our respective works in a relatively decent environment that could attract new membership. How is that a bad thing. Worst comes to worst it doesnt get used and falls into obscurity and no harm done..

Lordganon was probably talking about how you don't have the authority to call a TSPTF vote. If you want to poll people just make a blog post or something. "Nothing stops ANY of us from just going and making a fan channel that links to here", no kidding, which is why I told you to do just that. Mscoree (talk) 14:03, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Not my vote... Ace made the vote and asked me to support the idea of a althist wiki youtube. And since i dont see anything too bad coming from this in general no reason to try and at least getting it made the official channel of the wikia if he still wants to go through with it.

I could easily see this working as a simple way to promote our wiki. We could make short videos explaining the core concepts of alternative history, starting with a "What is Alternative History?" which leads into "What is the Alternative History Wiki?". This would be an easy way to get more people to come here and contribute. After that, we could do more specific videos such as "What are Timelines?", "What are Map Games?", and "Alternative History Lingo". If we want to continue from there, we could make videos highlighting the best and brightest timelines this wiki has to offer such as 1983: Doomsday and Superpowers.

Any thoughts?

—Bfoxius (talk)

I think that is generally the idea. Mscoree (talk) 19:43, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

As much as I like the idea of AltHistory Wiki YouTube channel, this entire vote/discussion is not a TSPTF issue. The admins are just volunteers who help maintain the wiki. You don't need their approval and they can't stop you from doing anything outside the wiki. If you want an AltHistory Wiki YouTube channel, go create it. If you want a place to find collaborators and spitball ideas, then create a blog or even a new page on the wiki to be the portal for the project. Trying to get the TSPTF's "approval" is pointless and unnecessary.

That all being said, please let me know when the channel is up and running as I would love to cover it for my blog. Mitro (talk) 19:55, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Yea, Mitro is right. I probably will put this together after Christmas if possible and go ahead with my plan. If anyone wants to help me with putting the videos together or voice work, please tell me.

—Bfoxius (talk)

I also have experience with photoshop and movie editors, and might be able to edit the videos. I wouldn't be able to voice act, though (my microphone is terrible).

Okay, I will probably get the channel up tomorrow, followed by the first video. It'll be a basic outline on alternative history in general, with a 1983: Doomsday hook and the video eventually points toward this site. After that, I'll do one on the wiki itself, followed by more specific ones about timelines, map games, and other activities. Videos on lingo, "how to edit", and general writing tips are planned afterwards. After that, I'll do videos on great timelines such as 83DD and maybe one or two on specific map games.

Before I get the ball rolling, however, I will probably need someone with experience on YouTube to help me out and fill in for me when I don't have time, as until mid-February, I have a busy schedule. I also think an animated intro and/or outro would be cool, as would custom music, though that kind of is pushing it.

—Bfoxius (talk)

here's the link if anyone wants it:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTgwpBg3LmgaWw8EFOHBtiQ

Mscoree (talk) 04:28, December 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool, although as I mentioned before, a more central location to discuss the channel is needed. Using a thread on the TSPTF talk page is perhaps not the best place for this. Mitro (talk) 14:55, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, I'll make a blog post or something about this, once there's actually something worth showing. Mscoree (talk) 15:17, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Stolen Image
http://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/2pvabm/map_of_what_the_world_might_look_in_1920_like_if/

This post above steals the image from the TL Easternized World. I was under the impression that the stuff on this wiki was intellectual property, meaning that it can't be taken without permission. Figured the TSPTF should be made aware at the very least. Will probably contact the mods of that subreddit and see what they say about it. Original For Comparison.    Edge , Champion  of Shattered Stars and Stripes    Hit me up!  04:30, December 26, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I found it earlier today and told Edge. Even though you guys can't really do anything about it, you guys should at least be aware.

>.>;

Legally all it (might) need is to be sourced - and that one post on that reddit thread does that.

Wikia is free use.

Really, the only problem there is that it says "original content" on it, but the thread-starer is probably telling the truth about the mods.

Lordganon (talk) 09:12, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * As an attorney I can say LG is right. There is no stealing here and the redditor didn't claim to be the author. This was an overreaction to something that happens all the time on social media. Mitro (talk) 19:28, December 27, 2014 (UTC)

Plagiarism?
Okay, so a new timeline, A Wonderful World, seems to be plagiarism. I mean, some of it is okay, but the rest copies from another timeline, Alternity. I feel something should be done. I haven't done much, but you should see for youself. The timeline was appearently inspired by others, like New Union, but overall, it can be considered a direct copy of them. Spartian300 (talk) 00:05, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that there are several differences between the two timelines, right? Sure, sometimes stories and timelines that are 'inspired' by other people's work are indeed direct copies, but despite the similarities between Alternity and A Wonderful World, there are still the striking differences between in the timelines; including different events leading to different borders, different people (or the same people, just at differing points in time) being elected or put into power, several new events being added to A Wonderful World's timeline, as well as a ton of other factors that ensure that the Alternity and New Union remain simply inspirations, also in spite of their aesthetic similarities. The author even says on the timeline's portal page that if NuclearVacuum or Airwolf_Fanatic94 have any problems with the timeline, they should let him know.

<font color="#00008B">RichMill | <font color="#00008B">Talk  00:58, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

The only bit of plagarism I spotted was a few setences on the World War 2 page. Not to mention that it could've just have been used as a template for the future.

Marcus Ioshua Consul of the Roman Republic  and King of Persia  01:03, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

While it is/was a bit too close for my liking, he did put the note on.

Was not your call/place to say that on the TL talk page, though.

Lordganon (talk) 11:04, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

Well, A Wonderful World seems look liked to be blanked and that what LG already paste a deletion template on page.

Attempted account hacking
As of about 10 minutes ago i got an alert on my account that someone was trying to do a request new password/forgotten password for my wikia account. i have since changed my password again. I would just like to post this as a warning for other users. If you get the email about a temporary password change your password immediately and make sure you email is secure as well.

Hope nobody else is having issues with this and i really hope it wasnt anyone from this wikia.. i would rather this not be a case of someone trying to use my own account to get me banned.

Okay, now I'm paranoid. There could be a hacker on this wiki, but we don't know who? *shivers* I will start taking precautions. On a side note, I just had a thought. If they guy requested a password change, then this raises questions: how would he have changed the password? Unless he has a system that will follow the email. Is that possible? Spartian300 (talk) 12:22, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

I suspect someone from TFOE hacked, as they for an unknown reason dislike this wiki. Whoever the hacker is, i am or someone shall order an global block for the hacker, if we find out who he is. QuebecanCanada (talk) 12:49, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

Wow such hacking...literally someone just clicked "forgot my password", not on their account. Good to see all the steps of hysteria are shining through though; paranoia, accusations, etc.

@Spar "how would he have changed the password?" He wouldn't have...because this isn't an actual hacker, it was someone who clicked a button on the login screen. Tr0llis (talk) 13:41, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

Considering the Email password was legitimate changed on me and i had to go through recovery within 10 minutes of the password notification id say this is a little more than a simple "he clicked forgot password"

In and of itself, this problem raises a question I don't like: could it be one of the banned has become a hacker? Maybe someone from the past, someone who has a vendetta against this wiki, is now a hacker. We are looking at someone who uses an email tracker. That is bad. Spartian300 (talk) 23:59, December 29, 2014 (UTC)

To test a few theories about this, I went through password recovery myself with wikia. And to get this notifaction, all you need is someones user name. It is very unlikely that, given the fact that Wikia is not something people pay to use/ attach a credit card too, someone would try to hack you wikia account. Your email is different. Unless I am misuderstanding, 2 seperate events are being connected. A changed email password and a wikia "hack". To use myself for an example, PSN is connected to my email, which has some money attached to it. Someone is more likely to hack my email to get whatever money they can grab than they are to hack my wikia account, where the most damage they could do in the long term is get me banned from this wiki or make me lose admin on another wiki. So the chances of this being a expert level hacker is slime to none. Adressing Spar, all it takes to request a change is the user name. I could take LGs user name and request a change. Short of a message, nothing would happen to his account. Liker/Quebec, it isn't. The people of the TFOE acctually seem to be indifernet or uncaring towards what happened and this wiki. Many come over from that wiki and hang out of chat. They also worked it into the "Canon" of their wiki and it is a part of their "society".If they really wanted to get us back, they would go to Wikia and file reports against the users or this wiki.

The most resonable claim here is that someone did this to fuck with Feud.He's a pretty well known and active user who has a group of people who dislike him on this wiki. If it was a hacker, they are a shitty one if some websites password recovery system is all it took to stop them in their tracks.

I agree. I was thinking, however, that if they could trace an email, they could get to Feud's email. Like, they used it to find him. But yes, we could be looking at a coincidence. However, it seems that I sent an email to my mom. Which I did not. Something about "mike v". I think I've been hacked. Gonna change my password. Spartian300 (talk) 12:49, December 30, 2014 (UTC)

Finding an email and getting INTO an email are different things, Spartain. If this is a hacker he isn't very good. Nothing to worry about it seems. Монгол орда (talk)

Spar this 'I'm not gonna take any risks' stuff is getting really annoying now. You did it earlier with the whole Kingtrevor-Pittsburgh thing. Just because someone tried to fuck with Feud(not literally) doesnt mean there is this giant hacking network which is after all the users on Wikia. You're way too suspicisious, while if the TSPTF were half as suspicious as you are you would have had a perma-ban some time ago Tech (talk) 14:41, December 30, 2014 (UTC)

Just got the message as well. password changed. Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

I did not recieve the post, but I could be dealing with a random thing. And now with Toby. Your NOT the least bit worried. Spartian300 (talk) 23:43, December 30, 2014 (UTC)

"[TFOE users] for an unknown reason dislike this wiki"

Left me weak lolololol

Do hush, Spar. Paranoia isn't really necessary, since that password change goes to YOUR email.

22:42, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Spartian300
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:Spartian300

Spartian insults several users on his own page, mainly Ace009, ScarletOutlaw, Kingtrevor and Eric4e. I am not sure this is allowed, especially because it seems a little extreme to me. If this is allowed then forgive me for not knowing that, but I wasn't sure and thus I felt that I should notify the TSPTF. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 11:02, January 9, 2015 (UTC)

Surprised this has nit been reported yet, Thank you Sean. QuebecanCanada (talk) 13:43, January 9, 2015 (UTC)

Speaking to him about it. Lordganon (talk) 12:29, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

I would like to point out that my "enemies" list was of people I have bad feelings with. Eric is well desevred, and so is Ace. (He really is a bond villain.) I have removed it, but hey, that was something I felt like doing. Spartian300 (talk) 17:57, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Opinions I guess, but you can't insult people over it on your page. Anyway, it is fixed now. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?)

Derivative Work
The Timeline Imperial Machines, made by Eric4e is indeed derivative, As http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History:Conventions_in_use_in_this_wiki#Derivative_Works states "Derivative Work is not allowed on this Wiki, even if parts of a timeline (such as characters) are involved", as Imperial Machines has characters from the movie Wreck-it Ralph (search it on wikipedia) it is derivative and should be deleted. The TSPTF has ignored this issue for long time, there have been attempts to delete the timeline the TSPTF said it was not derivative, which is false, and thus should be deleted. QuebecanCanada (talk) 17:49, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

Oh for the love of.... this again? And I assume you will want us to delete any other timeline that mentions a fictional character as well, then? Sheesh.

It isn't. And if you read it, you'd notice that.

Simply put, if those characters were the timeline, or were "real" in it, we would have a problem. But they are not. Even in that atl world, they are fictional.

...

Lordganon (talk) 18:49, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

Are you doing this because you have a grudge against Eric? I know that many wikians do, and I hope that they'd stop it.

—Bfoxius (talk)

I'm not advocating the deletion of Eric's TL. But, don't the main Wreck it Ralph characters come to life in one of the major PoD's of his TL? "When the Swedes arrived, a large portal to Sugar Rush-world was discovered and many began to enter. Others sold gold treasures to Sweden and through these gains the country's economy glows. 'Then it was discovered this was a great world of candy and ice cream." '

<font color="Green">Upvoteanthology ( Talk | Sandbox )

Nope. Lordganon (talk) 17:04, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

I must say that the second PoD and the fanfic CoAs seem to imply to the reader that his ATL exists alongside, and interacts with, Disney's Wreck-It Ralph universe. I can't make optimal sense of his writing, though, and the incomplete timeline seems to elaborate on the fictitious nature of this crossover, so this probably belongs in the same gray area as some of Seiga's love letters to the Touhou Project. --NFSreloaded (talk) 19:05, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Key there is the first line of that "Part 2." All a simulation. Lordganon (talk) 19:25, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Ah, so that's the meaning of "visual environment"... Not bad. --NFSreloaded (talk) 19:46, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Uh. I am surprised the timeline has gone as far as it has. The idea of fictional characters being symbols of a nation is neat, but the fictional characters that make the most sense are people like King Arthur, Uncle Sam, A Russian Bear who wields a hammer and sickle, etc. Although, Eric did once spam me about Gloyd Orangeboar helping Ireland get independence. Wait. ORANGEBOAR = ORANGE ORDER = UNIONISTS = DEATH TO ALL IRISH!!!!!!!! DELETE IT DELETE IT DELETE IT DELETE IT!!!!!!!! BEFOR EIT LAYS EGGS!!!!!!.................

I am so sorry. That was uncalled for. But I was showing how offended I was by that. Spartian300 (talk) 09:03, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Ah, fecking hell, I was right to be worried.....

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Ireland_(Imperial_Machines)

Read who the leader is. In the mean time, I will be nominating it for deletion. Spartian300 (talk) 09:08, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Spartian, offensive? Offensive? Seriously? Tbh I don't see a reason for that article to be deleted. And why are you offended, and by what? <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?)

Guess he really dislikes orange, which is bad news for us, landgenoot. ;) Seriously though, open-and-shut case of misplaced, sentiment. Best to ignore while wryly appreciating the fact that this outburst just occurred where it did. --NFSreloaded (talk) 10:10, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Finally another Dutchman, yay. I think Spar's concerns are not needed. Just because one user dislikes orange, an article should be deleted? <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 10:39, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Feelings are indeed no grounds for deletion. He appears to think Eric is threading on Irish Catholics by hinting at the, through an orange-colored "candycorn and Mellowcreme Pumpkins"-themed Disney character. Far-fetched doesn't even begin to describe it. --NFSreloaded (talk) 10:55, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

...Are you kidding me, Spar? That is frivolous, at best. Another stunt like that and I will block you. Lordganon (talk) 12:06, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

sigh... My point is he put a fictional character in charge of my homeland. Read that part. I have alreayd said sorry for my outburst, but still, GLOYD ORANGEBOAR? That does really offend me, and not because of the orange order. Have you all seen what that guy looks like? Eric put a fictional character in charge of Ireland. At th least, Eoin O'Duffy would have beena better choice, and most of you know what about him. I am just offended at the thought ireland would be lead by a cartoon character. Spartian300 (talk) 13:28, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

No, he did not. And had you not been offended by the orange - can't really deny that one, I've seen some of the pro-Ireland stuff you've promoted on here - you'd have noticed it. The character is a semi-national emblem. Lordganon (talk) 18:59, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I swear to god, I am sure Eric put Gloyd Orangeboar in charge of Ireland. Let me prove it to you all. I am sorta pro-ireland, btw. Just don't like Edna Kenny. First class liar. And the whole "orange order" was actually meant as a joke. But considering what the orange stands for on the Irish flag, it is kinda iinappropriate to have it be Gloyd Orangeboar. Eric obvisously tried to use something Irish, but kinda failed, imo. Someone else woul do way better. Spartian300 (talk) 11:56, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Here. I found some proof of what Eric did:

"At the start of the war, the Irish Republican Army (IRA) split into two opposing camps: a pro-treaty IRA and an anti-treaty IRA. The pro-Treaty IRA disbanded and joined the new Irish Army. But if United Kingdom has one of hardest countries ever known, Gloyd Orangeboar came to Ireland in 1908, later he joined Irish Republican Army during Irish War of Independence. Then, he talk with anti-treaty leader Éamon de Valera in order to becoming the ceannaire, leader of the Irish people. Gloyd returns to Ireland in 1922 with Sweden supported the anti-treaty forces, Swedish supplies of artillery, aircraft, machine-guns and ammunition boosted anti-treaty forces and finally, the Irish Civil War was over, ending with Anti-Treaty victory, abolished the Irish Free State and creation of Republic of Ireland"

See? I am telling the truth. He has made a fictional character as a leading figure in Irish history. What about Micheal Collins? He would be better. Spartian300 (talk) 12:02, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Someone else would do way better

Not you timeline, so not your decision. Eric indeed put Gloyd Orangeboar in charge of Ireland. Which is acceptable actually. Gloyd is a normal name, and Orangeboar isn't that weird for a surname(trust me, I've seen worse). And it's obvious nothing will be done, because nothing has to be done. You can ask Eric politely to change it, but the TSPTF can't and won't do anything, LG has made that clear.

And excuse me, but did you just delete my post? Interesting. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 12:05, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Gloyd Orangeboar is a character from Wreck-it Ralph, thus, derivative. QuebecanCanada (talk) 12:19, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't have to. First of all, it's just a name. Second of all, as LG said, he is a sort of national emblem for Ireland. But it's not my decision of course. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 12:27, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Proof: http://wreckitralph.wikia.com/wiki/Gloyd_Orangeboar. QuebecanCanada (talk) 12:30, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

So? <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 12:34, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

I swear, I did not delete the Tech's post. Might have by accident. Spartian300 (talk) 12:36, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Tech, you can't just say that this is a different character, when it obviously is one and the same. And I am aware that in the dutch version, Gloyd is a girl. Are you confused? Spartian300 (talk) 12:47, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Confused? No. I didn't even watch Wreck It Ralph at all. And let's just say this: There is the movie called Mr and Mrs Smith. One of the characters is called John Smith. This means I cannot call any character John Smith, because it was already a character in a movie. Do you see how stupid this claim is? It would be a really different story if he posted a picture of WIR Gloyd Orangeboar saying that that is a portrait of the IM Gloyd Orangeboar, that would be derivative. From what I understand, this isn't punishable. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 13:01, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, stop it.

It's not derivative fiction. It would be if it were a story in the Wreck it-Ralph timeline, or an alternate timeline of what happened in that movie. However, using references to fiction is perfectly allowed in this wiki. In fact, IMO it is better to have a fictional name for a leader.

Spartian, you're getting offended over a colour. You can't delete a timeline because you don't like it, or it 'offends' you. As LG said, it's frivolous at best.

And QC, please quit your weird vendetta against Eric. Fed (talk) 13:16, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

The evidence is there that Gloyd Orangeboar Is the same as the one from wreck it Ralph. Spartian300 (talk) 14:39, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'm with Fed and LG on this one. Simply referencing a fictional character does not constitute anything remotely delete-worthy. <font color="Green">Upvoteanthology ( Talk | Sandbox )

1. Fed, please stop assuming something you have no knowledge about, if this would be a Vendetta, it would look like the Spar-Scar feud.

2. I want my report deleted. Now. QuebecanCanada (talk) 15:04, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

QC, it is a vendetta, I have seen it several times on chat. And Spar is quite literally only angry because of his Irish Super-Nationalism which makes him cringe everytime he sees the word orange. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 15:18, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Sean, i actually like Eric's timeline, i just pointed out a suspicious thing, not everything is a hendetta, maybe soon editing will be called a vendetta, maybe soon logging in will be called a vendetta, maybe soon the Wiki wilm be called a vendetta?

Case closed, do not edit anymore, and delete this section. QuebecanCanada (talk) 15:38, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Sean, stuff it. Spar, you are wrong, simply put.

QC, answer is "no." It's staying. Try to remove it again, and three days.

Lordganon (talk) 17:42, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Fine.

Might as well permaban me. QuebecanCanada (talk) 19:20, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

LG, I don't mean to argue, but Eric is using a fictional character for that timeline. And I am not a super nationalist. I consider myself American, but my family has been very badly treated in the past by the Brits. I know that one of an relatives on my mothers side was killed for teaching Irish. His kids were then shipped off to four different continents. Those kids were twins. My grandmothera brother was shot by the Black and Tans because they thought he was IRA. (He was 11 when it happened, and was playing football). I dislike the IRA just as much as the Unionists. I ain't an Irish nationalist. Just..... Hard to forgive them over what they did to my family. Spartian300 (talk) 14:18, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, you are aware that this is a work of fiction based on another work of fiction that is based on several other works of fiction? I cannot understand why this bothers you as much as it does. If you're a Jew whose grandparents died in the Holocaust, that doesn't give you the right to go off on someone who makes an Axis victory timeline.

17:52, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

well, guess this is as good a time as any...... PSYCH! I have playing you all the whole time! I just dislike imperial machines GREATLY. Spartian300 (talk) 17:56, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Nobody even says psych anymore. Also you were this close to getting blocked. ' ' < That close.

21:06, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

So you where lying because you dislike a timeline? <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 21:27, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously going to try that, eh Spar? Especially since that is a lie. I've seen your rants about Ireland far too many times to buy that.

Consider yourself lucky I don't feel like blocking you for lying to us. Won't happen again.

Lordganon (talk) 21:05, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

unjust chat ban
Okay, so Toby just banned from chat for insulting Tech, when it is well deserved due to his hypocrisy. He crossed out something he should not have, as I was following turns in Diversa Pars. You all can check. Ever since Upvote sided with me over Tech, he has been bitter, and did blatantly insult me. I would like to point out that Tech has not followed certain events in the game. I would like the ban lifted. Spartian300 (talk) 20:46, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

calling him an oaf,  a swine, and an hypocritical ass, as well as your normal antics, can  let you last 2 hours Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

''No. You came on, acted like an ass, and are now suprised that you got banned. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up.''

I am pissed at tech for him being an arse. He did pretty much insult me in his turn. But I am right. He is being a hypocrite. Check. Spartian300 (talk) 20:55, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

You can't come on chat and go insult someone immediately and expect to get away with it. And also, i never directly insulted you. I did my duty as a mod in that game. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 20:56, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

So you admit to insulting me indirectly? Your lucky I know better than to flame you. But you are being a hypocrite. And since when are you a mod? You are a poor one if did not check the turns. Go ahead and check 1996. You will see. Spartian300 (talk) 20:58, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Spar. you raged, you insulted, you were warned earlier in the day. you have been banned for two hours. grow up Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

I also haven't insulted you indirectly. I have at best insulted you when I got a Spar rage insult storm over me, but that was because you had been insulted me all the time. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 21:01, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, you flew off the handle. Deal with the consequences. Toby, good call.

Crim de la Crème 21:03, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, you think he insulted you and you insult him, What logic is that?

Also,

Map Games are not TSPTF material. QuebecanCanada (talk) 21:06, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Good call? He behaved worse then me. He is ignoring stuff in the game, and I get punished? He is just bitter that I won (surprisingly)Spartian300 (talk) 21:47, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

i am not ignoring stuff. And the game is unrelated to the TSPTF. You can't insult someone and get away with it. And you appear to not know what we are talking about. You didn't win anything. I didn't behave worse than you. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 21:51, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

I am a bit vague at times. And maybe I should not have insult end you. But you are ignoring part of my turn, and did OFFEND me.Spartian300 (talk) 21:58, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Here's the thing, Spar. Sean's turn was implausible, as most other people deemed it. At first, I believed he was in the right, due to his events being defaultly more urgent than events 70 turns in the future. But, after complaints from other mods and users, people wanted the ASB parts of Sean's turn retconned. Sean took it very well, but you lorded it over him in your next turn. You've been causing more problems on the page than he is, and you know full well that you are on thin ice. He did not offend you, Spar, and I'd advise you to not start another shitstorm so soon. <font color="Green">Upvoteanthology ( Talk | Sandbox )

Thank you Upvote. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 10:36, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

216.106.215.171
He seems to have vandalized my talk page archive

Cheers, SkyGreen24 13:39, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

TFOE attack part 2, and more
ok so it should be common knowlede that Ace and quebec had again tried to attack the TFOE wiki. MP had banned Ace for 3 days wiki and 1 week chat. But it was beginning to surface that quebec had a major role in this attack.

Quebec denied it but the evidence overruled and i gave him a measly 3 day chat ban.

the first few strings of rants came to my talk page on this wiki



when i went over to the TFOE wiki to sort  things out and also help them with a troll who was making death threats, i recieved these



these 9although the chat ones were on another wiki, i will let others decide ) as well as the TFOE raid and blatantly lying about it, should warrant a ban, in my opinion

but i will let others decide Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

CorrosiveDragon:Hello. I want to mention my opinion here. I would like to say that the ban should remain the way it is, it should be extended or perma banned. etc. This is because Quebec wasn't really the one who reported the users. Quebec just rementioned it which lead to Ace doing whatever Ace did. However in our life as human beings, we do something without thinking it through and then the future consquences may make us a bit upset. Which is probably why Quebec requests for a perma ban. However, we make mistakes and learn from it; therefore Quebec shouldn't deserve any longer bans, I know Quebec may be upset right now, but the best way is to let Quebec calm down and hopefully Quebec would think about it in a more peacful way. Extending the ban or perma banning this user for what I think it's minor is not needed, it only encourages Quebec to remain more depressed about it (Viperia (talk) 18:35, January 27, 2015 (UTC))

I already confessed that I played a minor role in the report Ace made, first i gave him information and such but when the report was made i already regreted it and knew it would cause chaos and such, I knew i couldn't stop the report so i tried to lie and stay out (I know it was a stupid move and i am very sorry) but then i got chat banned, posted on Toby's talk page and got it extended to a week, i then told everyone i was not involved in the report, however, then i knew i had to confess, so i did, i think i should be given a month ban or higher, again, i am very, very sorry and i ask for forgiveness.QuebecanCanada (talk) 18:49, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

I did not know fully what they did, but I like to point out that when I came on chat a few days ago, QC was talking about reporting TFOE to Wikia Central. BUT, there is one thing here that Toby hides. Because when I came on(I sadly don't have screenshots of it), I saw that QC asked Toby to tell no one, and Toby agreed. This is probably unbelievable, as I have no screenshots. But from what I saw, Toby is also partially guilty about this. Although Ace was the one who did it, QC did help him and Toby ignored it even though he knew about it. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 18:51, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Well that is true. QuebecanCanada (talk) 18:59, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

@quebec that is a blatant lie i did not extend it until after those three shots were taken

@tech yes indeed i knew and i regret not having done more to stop it other than just "dont do that". If i wanted to hide something i would have Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

Well toby my wording was weird so forgive me. QuebecanCanada (talk) 19:04, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

...

Agreed, Toby - blocked for three days.

Lordganon (talk) 21:04, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Insults
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Ace009?diff=1125225&oldid=1123566

Some person(from TFOE) has insulted Ace on his talk page. Take a look. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 12:19, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

I can't be the only one here who feels we are looking at a war between ourselves and TFOE. That may not be the case, but truthfully, it looks that way. As the admins are trying to keep things under control, I think we should just wait till it all blows over. This message is for non-admins, of course, but those same users could start taking matters into their own hands. And we don't need that. I would advise we try to smooth things over with TFOE, and make sure no one steps out of line. Yes, I know that would apply to me, but I have no interest in "raiding". All I have interest in is what interests me. Spartian300 (talk) 13:11, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Just saw what they did. I will contact admins on TFOE about it. Could someone take screenshots of it for the TFOE? Spartian300 (talk) 13:13, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

War? Spar, don't act like one of them. War between wikias is a childish and untrue concept. The fact remains: TFOE has nothing against our wiki in general. But they do think that Ace and QC are twats. They can come here if they want, but they should get banned if they start vandalizing and insulting. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 13:41, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

I did drop them a message asking them to not flood our wiki, just to be sure. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 13:56, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

I guess I did overreact, but I have alerted the admins on TFOE to what happened. Spartian300 (talk) 15:25, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

A Grim Reaping......
I have just found out something VERY troubling. It would seem that Ace, somehow, was able to disable wiki accounts on TFOE. While most of you should know about it, the reason I am bringing this to your attention is because of the TFOE response.

http://thefutureofeuropes.wikia.com/wiki/The_Grim_Reaping#comm-74483

We have a problem. A dire one at that. The users are taking what Ace did bitterly. They have made a template to remember what happened as well. If that isn't a sign of things to come, I don't know what is. We need to resolve this soon, before it gets serious. I will try to do so, and will update on how it is going. Spartian300 (talk) 13:23, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, there is no things to come. There is nothing to resolve. Ace was a dick against them, so they hate him. They have NOTHING against Althist. I have spoken to a few of them on chat and they don't hate Althist, they hate the invaders and QC and Ace. So please don't make this an issue when it shouldn't be. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?) 13:43, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Ace didn't "Magic" these accounts into death. Wikia disabled them for being underage.We have known about this for a while, issue has been resolved. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 14:50, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

I am so slow...... Spartian300 (talk) 15:05, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

On a side note, I was able to bring the insult on Ace's page to the attentions of the admins on TFOE. Spartian300 (talk) 15:23, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

For the record, the issue has already been handled. Ace was banned a while back for conducting wikia central business and interfering with the actions and policies of other wikias, something that he was previously warned not to do. He should be back in a few days. QC was also banned for doing more or less the planning behind it, but I don't know how long he was banned for. Either way, the issue is currently handled, and TFOE knows that it was handled.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 15:33, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

I should be told if something like this happens again, so I don't do this again. Spartian300 (talk) 15:39, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

An Apology, Followed by More Evidence
Well, gentlemen. This is the first time I have literally posted anything in a whole bloody week, but I believe I have evidence as to the Future of Europe's Wiki's ages of certain users, after I finally learned how to take a bloody screenshot. As a result, i finally will post these as evidence:

Do note: I am not entirely certain whether this is true or not, but I did not photoshop these, as I do not know how to.

Still, even after a formal apology I had done to them, it appears that we are going to expect a streak of new users here.

While I regret what they call "The Grim Reaping", I have some mixed feelings to know that some believed my move was justified. If this move justifies my attempts to attract Wikia Staff here, then I may be at least happy I managed to enforce law. Otherwise, I may regret this decision, and if so......forgive me. Graham Industries. Creating the future, today. (talk) 17:05, February 1, 2015 (UTC)

How does this realte to Althistory? <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?)

17:11, February 1, 2015 (UTC)

Well, the truth is.....I was here to state that while I formally apologized to them, I was also explaining that to some, my actions were justified, as per Wikia ToU. Graham Industries. Creating the future, today. (talk) 17:14, February 1, 2015 (UTC)

Ace, the problem is that wikia central is responsible for rooting out people underage, not you. Render unto wikia's that which is wikia's. Otherwise, it's not our concern nor our problem, and we would rather much not be part of an interwikia dispute, because those tend to end poorly.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 17:57, February 1, 2015 (UTC)

Precisely. We have no influence over other wiki-related matters. Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:51, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

More importantly, doing something like this can damage out standing among other wikis. I mean, how could they trust us? I follow a rule in life: NEVER blame the whole for the actions of the few. It applies continuetly, and has been proven to be true, again and again. But of course, some may feel that the whole wiki is responible, for some reason or other. (Law of averages says so.) I think that, as a sign of goodwill, we should make a "peace treaty", if you will, with TFOE. Symbolic, of course, but still, it would help patch things up. LG, what do you think? I also believe I handled the insult to Ace pretty well. Since I was able to bring it to the attention of the TFOE admins. Spartian300 (talk) 08:58, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, you always overexaggerate these things. We don't have to. First of all, TFOE's opinion of us is completely irrelevant. Second of all, they know Althist isn't responsible. So we should just end this topic and leave them be. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?)

I do not care what a user does on another wiki. If it has nothing to do with our wiki do not bring it up. It is irrelavent what other wikis this of us - we apparently have enough in-wiki problems to deal with. If wikia thinks we have done something bad then they will alert us. Otherwise please do not bring up other-wiki matters which do not involve us. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:37, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

Not that I shouldn't really barge in here, but hasn't this has already been solved? Why are we rambling on about stuff that has already been solved? This discussion should be finished by now and closed and shut, imo. Saturn120 (Talk/Blog) 11:40, February 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * Spartian felt the need to make a comment. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:40, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

I am back from an well-deserved punishment.

Ace, why are you trying to do it again? I know it was wrong for me to suggest it, but why? Do you want more vandalizers to come from TFOE? The Relations between the two wikis are going on a path to good, why ruin them to start again? It is best to avoid contact with the two wikis til AH will be forgotten. Also, do not blame everything on Ace, i was the one who ignited the idea, therefore i deserved the punishment, but it would be better if i was not banned for 3 days, but 1 month, as i deserved a higher punishment, and maybe 5 years from the chat. As i said, it is better if both wikis avoid contact for a while, and like Imp said, this is not Community Central, meaning this 'report' is pointless as AH admins should not do anything about this.

Also, may i ask, what was LG doing on the chat?. QuebecanCanada (talk) 14:31, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

First thing, you've overreacting, as always.

As for LG on chat, the man has a right to be on chat... Just because you don't usually see him, doesn't mean he won't go on chat. Just sayin'

Now please, drop this. SkyGreen24 16:29, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

LG was on chat? Wow! That's like getting a call from God! Spartian300 (talk) 09:30, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

COULD WE DROP THIS SUBJECT! <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Tech can into talkpage?)

Your grammer is wrong. There should be a question mark. Spartian300 (talk) 09:38, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

grammar. Remember, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. ;) --NFSreloaded (talk) 09:51, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

Interesting comment, NFS. Let's test it on your glass head. *throws a bunch of stones at NFS* Spartian300 (talk) 09:53, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

catches stones and runs off to sell them to a geologist* --NFSreloaded (talk) 09:58, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

Geology is not an exact science!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 11:58, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

@ all- You could contact Community Central via an e-mail and not drag LG in to this.The River Nile-2 (talk) 18:44, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Before this become a problem
I made a porn joke in chat, as Sky was giving me a two hour ban. Sue me. Spartian300 (talk) 21:38, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

You were blocked because you kept intruding on a matter that multiple people, including several TSPTF members, told you not to do.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:40, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

I know. You misread what I said. I meant that I made a porn joke before I was banned. Spartian300 (talk) 21:41, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

I didn't do it because of a porn joke, I did it because you were attempting to ruin Mscoree's reputation with your vigilantism. The "issue" that came up is a serious one, and we don't really need you to go and play detective. MP and I talked about this, you got a two hour ban, merely as a warning that such behaviour is not welcome. Until anything is proven, you have no right to damage the reputation of a user, no matter who it is. I'm sorry if you took this wrong, but it's simply a warning.

Cheers, SkyGreen24 21:43, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Your still not reading it right. I made the porn joke because I was going to be banned. I and was not trying to hurt Ms. Spartian300 (talk) 21:48, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Bribridude130's Sockpuppeting
So NuclearVacuum blocked Bribridude130 for 2 weeks, recently a new user named Bribridude130 (2) joined and edited its first page in Alternative History Wiki. Bribridude130 (2) is completely simpler to user Bribridude130 (2), as you can see it says on Bribridude130 (2)'s user page: "My backup account since Bribridude130 is currently blocked." So can anyone fell free to permanently block either or both accounts upon reading this.

12:46, February 13, 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know what's more disappointing, the fact that he thought a "backup account" was a good idea or that he literally just called his new account "2". Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have permanently blocked his first account, and his 2.0 is up for a month. I also warned him that any additional accounts will result in a permanent block for any account he makes.


 * I also believe he's either purposely ignoring his talk page, or he literally has no idea it exists (more likely the former). I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a "3" soon. -- 04:34, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

Chat incident
Okay, so as most of you know, there was an incident on chat where I made a general ass of myself. Sorry about that. I should have known better. I was bored, is all, and wanted something to do. I really am sorry. It actually wasn't fun. I feel like Drax after he contacted Rohan in Guardians of the Galaxy. Spartian300 (talk) 22:54, February 17, 2015 (UTC)

Mscoree Petition
On behalf of the people of the Alternate History Wiki and its associates, for the release of the user Mscoree, who was banned at the eighteenth hour and thirty-nine minutes on the 23 February, two thousand fifteen years in the year of our lord, to the Time Stream Protection Task Force, and its administration. We believe that the current state of evidence in regards to Mscoree’s crime, proves that he is not guilty of a crime warranting a six month ban, and call for a review of his case. His ban was motivated by a clear conflict of interest, a bias, and without any proper evidence or discussion for such a long ban.

This ban has its origins in the controversial decision to replace the player Harvenard2 from the Tartary in Principia Moderni III, and replace him with the user ScarletOutlaw. After some debating it was decided by the moderators, most notably Edge, that Harvenard2 was inactive, and could therefore be replaced. An edit war ensued between Harv and Scar, particularly on the Tartary page, and as a result the page was locked by Monster Pumpkin on 19 February. It was at this point, when he was fet up with arguing with both Harv and Scar, that Edge declared the next “Tartary-related edit” would result in a one month PM3 ban.

Mscoree has claimed that at the time he was not paying much attention to chat, except for a private message conversation with the user Tr0llis, which reads as follows:

Mscoree

Don't forget to update the family tree on your page

Tr0llis

I'll have Stephano II live for a while

Mscoree

Okay

Tr0llis

What year did Carolina von whatever die?

Mscoree

Not sure

Actually probably still alive

Tr0llis

Now I need to fix the family tree

aka get you too


 * too

Mscoree

lol

I need to update my own

Tr0llis

.

Mscoree

Speaking of family trees, did you see the Tartary?

Tr0llis

Lol

Mscoree

Brb the shitstorm ensues in chat

Didn't Harv post the year before?

Sorry, wrong chat

Tr0llis

ms plz

Also fix the Tartary family tree it's hurting me

Mscoree

Should I?

Tr0llis

Lol get banned by LG somehow because of it

Mscoree

Let's test that

Mscoree and Tr0llis were talking about family trees, which Mscoree is a noted creator of. In two different places, Mscoree is seen saying something out of place, the second and final spot being the last line. According to Tr0llis on chat, “after he replied ‘should I?’ there was a pause lasting almost two minutes. When he returned he said his last message in chat, before immediately saying it in private chat.” When viewed in context it is obvious that Mscoree said “Let’s test that” in the context of fixing a family tree.

According to snippets of the main chat log that we obtained, Mscoree said “Let’s test that” in the main chat at 2:09 UTC. If you examine the edit log at this time however, you can see that at 2:09 UTC Mscoree was in the middle of an edit, specifically on the PM3 page. Of course, the Tartary page, containing the family tree, was locked. According to Mscoree he saw the edit conflict currently going on in this page, and decided to fix the formatting on the page. It should also be noted that during this time Mscoree, and many others, were examining the PM3 archives to figure out who posted first. At 2:09 Mscoree made an edit (http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Principia_Moderni_III_(Map_Game)?diff=prev&oldid=1132127) for the purpose of fixing the page’s formatting, specifically an incorrect internal link and some spacing.

It was at this moment, after the edit had been made, that Mscoree, upon just now seeing Edge promising a ban, admitted casually that he had technically made a “Tartary related edit”. Mscoree was immediately banned from the map game for a month, after Monster Pumpkin reported that Mscoree had indeed made some sort of edit. Although the validity of this edit was not checked, Mscoree was banned none the less by Edge.

For the next few days Mscoree continued to post anyway, perhaps not believing this “trollish ban” to be legitimate, or perhaps realizing that none of the moderators cared. In fact, none of his subsequent turns would be crossed out. On 21 February Mscoree, when asking about whether or not he could be unbanned to Edge directly, was told by Edge to “ask another mod who isn’t angry” and that if he asked another moderator he would be unbanned. It is clear, in Edge’s lack of hesitance to have Mscoree unbanned, assuming that he fulfill a requirement, that he did not believe Mscoree should be banned for this long a time, if at all.

That night Mscoree reportedly talked to a moderator as Edge had prescribed, specifically Crim. Mscoree described the conversation with Crim as follows:

"First do you think this warrants a month ban? [Link, plus information]"

Minute pause

Crim: *sigh*

What's the second thing?

Ms: Next can I get your opinion on something?

Crim: On the ban?

Ms: No [proceeds to talk about a short story]

In conversation afterward, Crim did not dispute this account. This conversation shows that Mscoree did indeed talk to a moderator, and had therefore fulfilled Edge’s requirement to some degree. Of course, Crim never said Mscoree should be unbanned, but no where did Mscoree claim that. On the record he has seemingly only claimed to have indeed talked. The closest thing to any association with Crim and an unbanning occured in the following manner:

‘’Picture taken by SkyGreen’’

It was possibly assumed by some, after viewing this conversation, that Mscoree had claimed Crim had unbanned him, or sanctioned such act. When viewing the conversation as a whole it is a long list of question and answer by Mscoree, and here it seems multiple answers were stitched together. Monster Pumpkin asks if Mscoree asked a mod, and Mscoree replies that he did, and that is why such a ban would be removed. Monster Pumpkin then asks Mscoree who he talked to, and Mscoree replies Crim. No where does Mscoree claim that Crim unbanned him, at least not when descending into an argument over semantics. One way to think of it is, 1. Edge said you need to talk to someone to remove your ban, 2. Talk to someone to remove ban 3. Therefore ban is removed, 4. Who did you ask? 5. Crim. As Mscoree later described, “I'm not sure how else to describe it, but if I knew this would happen I would have worded it better”. Even if Mscoree is indeed implying that Crim sanctioned his unbanning here, that is nothing like Crim’s claimed statement; “You told other people that I said something along the lines of 'unbanning ms is a good idea'”.

Furthermore, it was later claimed on chat that Edge never said any such thing about unbanning, but this is simply untrue. As many witnesses can attest, Edge claimed that Mscoree would be unbanned if he talked to another moderator not personally irritated at him. Such a claim seems ridiculous given the many witnesses attesting, but this brings us to the center of the issue: This is an argument over “he said she said”. We have one man’s word against another. The difference is that Mscoree was banned right away, without any proof or confirmation. Likewise, many times when this is brought up, the fact that Mscoree posted while banned. As Mscoree describes it:

“I knowingly broke the rules in protest of something I found unfair. Many people agreed, and last night Edge said he pardoned me, which by definition absolves me of said civil disobedience and likewise removed my ban. And I guess arguing any differently semantics-wise is about as useful as arguing whether or not I said Crim unbanned me.”

Whether or not Mscoree posted while banned is furthermore unrelated. If he broke the rules of PM3 then the moderators can ban him from the game accordingly. The issue at hand however is that a wiki ban was issued, and we should not use any sort of rule breakage in a game as evidence to this crime; lying.

As mentioned above there was a pardon of Mscoree by Edge and Monster Pumpkin. This occurred the following day after Mscoree allegedly talked to Crim, and resulted in Mscoree being officially unbanned and likewise pardoned. A compromise however was that Mscoree would not be allowed to count the turns posted during his ban. And with that it seemed the ban issue was behind him, as were the illegal turns. One area of confusion later voiced by Monster Pumpkin was the so called “second pardon”, a theory that Crim unbanned Mscoree a day (or more) before he was officially unbanned. This is of course not the case, nor was it ever claimed by Mscoree. This is largely the area in which confusion and accusations of lying originate, but as Mscoree said above, he never claimed to be unbanned by Crim, and any posts he made were purposely illegal, not guided by some comfort in an early unbanning.

At the center of this ban is the idea that Mscoree lied, and the evidence indicating so is largely another person’s word, namely Crim.The timing and circumstances in which this ban was issued, however, point to a conflict of interest between Mscoree and the ban issuer, CrimsonAssassin. At the time when Crim banned Mscoree, the two were at war in PM3. The history on the PM3 page indicates that Mscoree declared war on Crim, only to have the turn removed by Crim on the pretext that he was still banned, even though that turn was posted after his alleged unbanning by Monster Pumpkin (albeit he was supposed to wait until next turn). When Crim learned that Mscoree was indeed unbanned, that’s when the story emerged that Mscoree had told “someone” that Crim unbanned him. Crim of course declared that Mscoree had lied, and banned him, thus removing him from the war. If Crim had not banned Mscoree then we would have seen Crim’s nation be more damaged in game. Therefore Crim had the motive to ban Mscoree for lying, as well as possibly even fabricate the story of Mscoree spreading lies himself.

It is no doubt that six months for this infraction was excessive. Especially given that the alleged crime was simply, “lying”, that the only evidence was a notably biased individual’s word against Mscoree’s, and at a time in which the banner had incentive to ban. This ban length would mean Mscoree was banned longer than most serious offenders. When asked about this, Crim claimed the length of the ban was partially motivated by the fact that “everyone is at their last wit with your [Mscoree’s] antics, i.e., although Mscoree may or may not have lied, Crim was either personally mad enough to have his decision influenced, or had repeatedly infuriated him with constant and persistent infractions, that Crim had to ban him for this length. On the contrary however it seems the opposite has been recorded. In the last several months Mscoree’s infractions have consistently declined. It has even been noted by some admins that Mscoree has gotten better, or is not to blame for several incidents. In many cases it has been noted that Mscoree is not to at fault, but rather certain users associated with him (often without actions warranting), have tarnished Mscoree’s reputation for him.

One noted incident was during Mscoree’s third constable election, at which time he had an overwhelming majority. As Crim described it, “Unsurprisingly, Ms and his friends have sucessfully [sic] trolled chat into oblivion and got a 2 hour block until they can calm down” As other users described it:

“ I guess it's coincidental that this event happened during Mscoree's election, with the only witnesses being the people opposed to him in said election. Read the complete chat log, as you can see Mscoree essentially did not do anything. When he spoke it was mostly to tell people to calm down. Meanwhile Feud uttered several personal attacks and curses at Mscoree, Tr0llis, etc, and all Fed (the admin) did was "^". Then you wonder why Tr0llis said some things back. Strangely Mscoree is the one who is punished, along with all of them. Let's review how that happened. Crim joined chat and after only a few seconds, without even hearing what had happened, banned Ms, Tr0llis, Harv, etc. Monster Pumpkin, an admin even said it seemed like Mscoree did nothing wrong. In the chat logs themselves Tr0llis is called mature, and Mscoree is said to be the one lessening tensions, not escalating. Later I [Fritzmet] joined chat, having read the chat logs, and when I asked about it I too was immediately banned. Crim then proceeded to plaster a heavily exaggerated story on here for the sole purpose of embarrassing Ms and destroying his election. Heavily bias and inappropriate, in my opinion it undermines the entire office of admin.”

Whether exaggerated or not, it is clear that Crim posted on the election stating that Mscoree had been banned. His intention was to diminish the integrity of Mscoree’s election. As the chat log, Josh shows (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n4a06m_MtmagmA_elMTeOvbVxNvWWAvo4NllOCtOujg/edit?pli=1#), Mscoree was largely not involved in any trolling, yet he was the first to be banned. Monster Pumpkin, an admin, later stated that Mscoree should not have been banned, in fact Feud should have. At the time however only Fed, and later Crim, were present to represent the admin staff. Feud is quoted as saying the following insults:

“you got an uppity bullshit attitude and acted like an prissy little bitch so yeah seriously fuck you you are literally unbearable that your an unbearable prissy bitch that complains when he doesnt get his way thats pretty possible...your being told that i absolutely despise you. no fuck you, you pick the worst times to fuck with people or be a troll...im drawing it from your entire history of bullshit on here since no admin will actually im saying it you literally dont deserve to have the free speach you have. You use it to troll and be an asshole. Sorry if im letting emotions speak to some degree but im absolutely done with it Fed hops on and you decide to shit on fed with a group of people fucking say anything like for real im an asshole...but guess what i dont use fucking groups to rail against people...oh my god how about you just fucking leave your a god damned problem...no im fucking angry cause it can never be fucking casual! yall cause shit every time i dont even have to be here the whole sat porno thing i wouldnt put it past you to have fuckign framed him”

This type of behavior is apparently completely acceptable, and as one admin, Fed, put it, “what Feud said”. Because to them Feud hit the nail on the head. Mscoree had supposively caused a long train of abuses, which ultimately made his block unavoidable. As Crim claimed when he banned Mscoree, it was incidents like this “trolling” that made him ban Mscoree for six months.

What this story actually shows is that Crim does not favorably view Mscoree, and likely had prejudice when viewing Mscoree’s latest incident. As one user put it, “the admins went hunting for Ms”. This is further shown when after Crim banned Mscoree, he celebrated with Fed:

Fedelede has joined the chat.

CrimsonAssassin

FED

GUESS WHAT

Fedelede

WHAT

CRIM WHAT

TELL ME CRIM WHAT

CrimsonAssassin

MS

IS BANNED

Fedelede

wait

wahat

CrimsonAssassin

FOR SIX MONTHS

Fedelede

how long?

Scarlet Outlaw

6 months

Fedelede

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Edgeofnight

Wait

Scarlet Outlaw

for doinf what

Fedelede

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

CrimsonAssassin

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

There is no disputing that Crim had clear bias against Mscoree when he issued a ban based chiefly on his own word. This ban was not only disputable and motivated by a conflict of interest, it was also excessive and unwarranted. If you believe Mscoree broke a rule in PM3, it is prudent to punish him in the game, but it is unfair and illogical to punish him here. We have shown that this ban is based on speculation, on a matter that is more likely than not a miscommunication. What crime has Mscoree committed that has not been committed by Crim, and many others? What crim has Mscoree committed that is both so heinous it warrants one of the largest bans to date, with no discussion or cross examination? What crime has he committed that has put us so much into danger? The fear of such thing has motivated us to ban him, but it has not been imbedded in all of us. We believe that Mscoree should not be banned, and not for this long, and call for his immediate release

Discussion
Posted this -  .....   Because I'm Just... Too... SSSWWWEEEEEETTT!!!

Josh logged the tribunal, not me. Saturn 22:49, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

For future record, LL did not write this petition, Trollis did.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:31, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, no. He deserves what he got (arguably more, since he's got the largest ban log in AH wiki history). Fed (talk) 23:43, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

@MP It was made by several people. Tr0llis (talk) 01:27, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

When I made this decision, I realized that my judgement and reasoning behind this call, and most other calls, would be put into question. I knew full well that I could very well be nuking my career in the TSPTF. I did what I did with the position of Lieutenant in mind and the community of this wiki in my heart. With that said, I realize that stories about me have been exaggerated. It's very easy to say that someone is exaggerating when you're the one doing the exaggerating. He who smelt it dealt it, I guess?

Ms has a history of testing the limits with the rules and our patience. I've been asked many times why, if Ms is such a problem, I haven't banned him earlier. The problem is that he constantly teeters on the edge of breaking rules without actually doing so. He's warned constantly, but usually stops there. Such a disrespect for the rules, while highly annoying, isn't a crime. I refuse to block someone without a proper reason. Banning someone becaues 'he made me angry' or 'because he tests my patience' is a great way to have the ban almost immediately be called into question and dismissed. As much as people believe that the TSPTF wants this to be a police state, the opposite is true. Whenever I ban someone, I make sure that a rule has actually been broken, which is the case with Ms.

Ms lied to evade a ban. Essentially cheating a game. Furthermore, he edited a page he was banned from, which is basically vandalism. I understand that lying is a shady ground on which to block somebody. Lying to evade a ban, however, is a serious crime and should be punished with at least a month block in my opinion. If Ms didn't have a history of several warnings and blocks, he would have gotten a month. However, a cursory scan over his talk page reveals countless warnings. His block record is extensive; much longer than Owen's and Catherine's. With these warnings, past blocks, and other factors in mind, his block was extended to six months. I even believed I was being merciful at the time.

With all of this being said, Ms' block is not open for debate amongst non-TSPTF members. A petition will not change his ban. I'm sorry your friend was banned, but the fact remains that he's a constant troublemaker and has been, as such, blocked. Crim de la Crème 03:15, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

The thing is Ms apparently did not lie to evade a ban, and the one saying he did is the one who wants him banned for his own gain. It's like asking a fan of the Ravens if the Patriots cheated. The point being there is a conflict of interest. He edited a page, which you call vandalism, and then was pardoned for it. Key word is pardoned. You are now going against the decision of the other moderators, even though they came to a compromise that Ms would be unbanned, but his turns wouldn't count. Oh and need we forget actual vandals, or people like Scar who have disregarded PM3 warnings and bans. Worst they got was a few days or weeks in PM3, not on the wiki. Tr0llis (talk) 03:26, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

How exactly would banning Ms be for my own gain? Do I get a reward? Do I get some sort of good recognition for it? He wasn't pardoned by anyone. If he had, I would have heard about it beforehand. Your example about Scar isn't relevant since his crime was just vandalism, not lying to evade a ban. Crim de la Crème 03:31, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Banning Ms is to your gain because the timing of the ban ensured that you performed more favorably in the recent war in PM3. Furthermore I believe I presented enough evidence to show you laud the banning of this user. I was in chat and MP and Edge said he was pardoned. I remember because I had a discussion of the word pardoned itself, and Scraw was like "you always do this, argue the semantics of things", etc. You said "He edited a page, which you call vandalism", so I brought up an example of vandalism. Tr0llis (talk) 03:35, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

If I wanted to ensure that the war went well, wouldn't I have just banned him until the end of the war? No reason to ban someone for six months so a war goes well for you. The only reason I laud the banning of Ms is because we're both looking forward to the half-year of peace. A troublemaker is finally caught and taken care of. You bet we showed pride in our work. I was in chat with Edge when he and I were trying to figure out who 'pardoned' Ms. If you want to use a better example, find a user who committed exactly the same crime Ms was banned for. Crim de la Crème 03:50, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

No, you would have banned him, period. And for a long enough time, which you did. "No reason to ban someone for six months", that's about half the point I'm trying to make. Excessive no matter how you spin it basically. If you don't mind could you provide some examples of Ms being a trouble maker, being banned, or otherwise causing wiki mayhem in the last few months? Ms was clearly pardoned, and if they say he wasn't they are lying. In fact here's picture evidence: Perhaps we should re-evaluate this whole ban if your evidence is being proven to be fictitious. And of course your entire defense is one person's word against another's (he said she said). Tr0llis (talk) 04:04, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

If I were wrong or if Ms wasn't lying, don't you think MP would have said something by now? Ms lied and said that I completely pardoned him. MP said that, " Ms was pardoned of his PM3 ban, under the stipulation that any turns during that period did not qualify and that he does not declare war on you until the turn after, 1787. I believe, although if this is important it may be good to check, that he broke that and tried to declare the year he was unbanned." Not only did Ms break the conditions of his pardon, he lied and said a majority mod vote, including me, unbanned him. The snide attitude is certainly not welcome and it's not going to help Ms. Crim de la Crème 04:23, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Mp did say something, he talked to me in chat, he talked to Lordganon on his talk page, etc. Ms never said that he was pardoned by you. That was one of the main points of my argument, and I believe the center of your misunderstanding. I beseech you to find a single source in which Ms states you pardoned him. If you check the facebook chat (which I was shown), or any of the other chat logs, you see Ms did not even say the word pardon until much after. You also see him adamantly deny that you pardoned him. Furthermore, from whom did you learn that Ms said these things? Do you have any proof, or did some guy just tell you it? Do you have any proof that this guy even exists? If you further read the facebook chat, after Ms was unbanned he was away for quite a while, most likely posting said turn. He came back to find that Cookie had said something like "Ms posted in 1787 despite us telling him not to" and Ms saying "I must have missed that." The next line is a reply to Ms saying "Does it even matter?" Regardless, that turn simply didn't count either. We had a whole discussion on chat about how Ms would just start on the next turn. In fact, MP made that clear that he would have to re declare war anew. Again Ms never said a there was a majority mod vote, or any vote. Not sure where you even got that from. Read the chat logs or facebook chat, or anything, I have no idea where that even came from. This whole misconception originates in that you believe Ms interpreted talking to you as being unbanned, even though he clearly was not unbanned, and even pursued such a goal the next day. Never did Ms claim that you personally unbanned him, rather by the next day Edge and MP realized this ban was rather foolish and unbanned him. If you think it had anything to do with a vote you are mistaken. Tr0llis (talk) 04:32, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

I kinda support the TSPTF on this. But everything seems good and well. Spartian300 (talk) 09:10, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Is there any proof Ms claimed he was unbanned? Without proof, you can't really ban him for lying. From what I understand, Ms told MP and Edge he talked to Crim, which led to MP and Edge ending the ban. That would only be a misunderstanding, nothing more. On the other hand, if Crim's side of the story is correct, with Ms' long ban log, a 6 month ban could be justified. But without proof, you can't really justify the ban of Ms. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean!  (Get a free potato here) 09:38, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Crim's only proof is a handful of testimony, which has been proven inconsistent of incorrect by picture evidence. If you don't count the testimony proven false, than Crim has no proof. Tr0llis (talk) 11:51, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

"find a user who committed exactly the same crime Ms was banned for" Scar lied to evade a ban in PM3, and then he even cursed off the mods too. Despite being banned he kept editing, especially the map. He was banned for 'zero days on the wiki, and something like two weeks in the game. Tr0llis (talk) 12:46, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Oh for the love of god. If anything im just going to say it this way. Every time he gets banned for whatever reason legitimate or not yall come to his aid and want to end his ban. He deserves it for one reason or another, there have been several broken rules over the past 4-6 months that have been essentially ignored due to the backlash associated with it and any attempt to ban MS. MS could have posted a picture of someone from the wiki photoshopped in an extremely derogatory way and you still would want to commute his ban. The truth of the matter is that over the past 6 months he has been caught cheating, editing pages he shouldnt be editing, messing with other peoples pages, has had multiple warnings to not act like trollbait (which he still comes back 3 days later and does it again) and finally being a general all around asshole. Were all assholes to some degree or another ill admit that. But in general MS and his friends take it to a new level by grouping up and giving one user hell until he leaves or concedes. Thats how they have survived for so long.

Trollis is even more guilty and has before posted a personal picture of myself on chat in the middle of an arguement to attempt to make it swing his way by pretty much saying "lol look at feud in this picture isnt he blankity blank." not only have i not forgotten about it but i still have a major problem with your action. MS and Trollis in general have in general not contributed enough to the wiki to make up the shortfalls of their crappy attitudes, general ignoring of rules. The Ban is deserved in one way or another. He Cheated, he got expelled, and then when having the ban lifted lied about it. the evidence you guys have posted is obviously edited, and considering you guys are good with picture editing (and with no comments on this page by MP or edge) then your evidecne can very clearly be seen as photoshopped (which ive seen a user do before on this wiki in a joking way.) Its not that hard for you guys to have made up all this evidence through photoshop just to commute MS's ban. But really if you have TSPTF guys willing to nuke their carreers over banning him you should take a long hard look at yourselves.


 * I don't feel like getting fully involved in this, but I can confirm that the pictures - and the labeling of whom they're attributed to - are genuine. They're from a big Facebook chat of which myself, Cookie, Sine, Sky, Andy, Eip, Ms, among a few others, are a part of. I was on chat when Mp, after being asked if he could authenticate the photos, said "everyone from the fb chat saw them and know they're real". So while I'm staying out of this for the most part, the evidence Tr0llis has presented is not photoshopped. I am that guy (talk) 16:52, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

As for the various claims that there was a misunderstanding, let's look at this picture.

Ms states that he was unbanned. Edge said to ask a mod who wasn't angry to get unbanned. His ban got removed and he said he asked Crim. In order to explain this further, I'm setting this up more logically:


 * Ms needed to ask a mod to be unbanned


 * Ms told us that he asked Crim


 * Therefore, Ms stated that he was unbanned by Crim.

Although the length of the ban is something I leave up to the higher-ranked TSPTF, I'm just gonna say that it wasn't ridiculous to ban him, and that's it's a valid ban. SkyGreen24 17:47, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Wonder why this was not included in Tr0llis' original post. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here) 18:04, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Seems to me that its cherry picking or omiting the parts of the conversation that are incriminating or not advantageous to his arguement.

I know I am but a lower tier member of the TSPTF, but I stand behind Crim's ruling of a ban. I will not comment on the length of the ban, or whether it is justified, I leave that to my superiours to discuss. With Regards, FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 19:00, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

So yeah now that im out of class, i can point out that i may have been wrong about the photoshop manipulation (which i thought could be plausibly used for this) but was wholesale right about the manipulation of evidence. It made crim look bad and made ms look innocent pretty much. In all honesty, thanks to sky posting this Crim has even more evidence backing him and trollis has his whole arguement pulled out from under him.

The evidence trollis used was pretty obviously cherry picked and manipulated to discredit crim. In general this seems like it should be against some sort of rule itself but thats not the heart of the discussion. The Ban should stay in place in totality now. Your manipulation of evidence is rather pitiful not to mention your using me in an arguement previously when i dont even pertain to this particular situation. All in all that full chat log obliterates your arguement Trollis youve pretty much been caught red handed lying to save MS for lying in the first place...

None of the pictures are photoshopped, and I have proof of MP verifying them. I don't know if the pictures are cherry picked, I didn't take any of them. They were all given to me, and the one you call cherry picked was taken by Sky. Feud please don't add speculation and your general opinion on things, I'm trying to write the facts. As Sky shows, Ms never said he was unbanned by Crim. Edge said Ms would be unbanned if he talked to a mod, and he did. Talking to Crim (or any mod) was a prerequisite to be unbanned. Ms completed the requirement to be unbanned and hence was unbanned. "Ms needed to ask a mod to be unbanned...Ms told us that he asked Crim". And if you read the rest of the chat you see ms say that Crim said no. He wasn't unbanned by Crim, nor did he ever claim he was. You are basically just assuming such a conclusion. But narrative wise you see Ms was answering questions interrogation style. To be clear should have asked if Crim banned him. Scroll down and see where that it is essentially asked, and he says no. Tr0llis (talk) 19:55, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Tr0ll has a point. The cherry picking was my fault. At first glance, I used the first picture to show that ms said that crim unbanned him, thinking it would be enough, then I created this one more recently, to explain it further. SkyGreen24 20:00, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Pretty clear that he lied, imo. After obviously disregarding rules and ignoring admins again because he disagreed with their rulings. He was told how long the block would be the next time one of us decided that it was worth dealing with his cronies to block him for offenses, and got it. He knew full well what the consequences for failing to listen and lying were and would be - his own bloody fault. Trollis, you've got nothing overall. Quit beating the dead horse, before someone else grabs it to beat you with.

End.

Lordganon (talk) 15:48, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I witnessed a lot of this, and this is my two cents. I wonder, what does Ms gain by lying here? Why did he decide to make up a story involving someone who would most certainly discredit him, even when that very day he got unbanned for real? I was in chat at the time when Ms talked to Edge and MP and various others, and they basically decided that the whole one month PM3 ban was dumb and removed it. So what's the point of lying to say he had been previously unbanned? In fact in the screenshots he says straight away that he was not unbanned the previous week and that the turns during that time were definitely illegal. You'd think if he had made up a lie saying he was unbanned a day or two early, then he would likewise say the turns from a day or two previously were valid, yet he says in that quote that they were no good, and as a result MP and Edge decreed they didn't count. Anyway, that is my thought> I just don't see the motivation for making up something dumb like that. And on a related note, shouldn't we investigate Crim's angle? seems like everyone is picking apart Ms' sentences, and meanwhile Crim's evidence is a vague story about Edge. It also appears Crim has been proven to be lying, if the picture evidence is any accord, so I imagine he'll be banned for lying too? Fritzmet (talk) 20:10, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I just talked to Edge and it has been confirmed that Crim has lied completely in regards to his reason for banning Ms. His reason for banning Ms, a lie that he had reportedly heard from Edge, has been confirmed by Edge to be untrue. Furthermore Crim has been caught red handed lying to us on this very page.



I think it's only fair that Ms be unbanned, or Crim likewise be banned for lying. he lied to the TSPTF right before our very eyes, and used that lie to defend banning Ms. Tr0llis (talk) 02:21, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

Edge might have been refering to when MP planned to unban him, so you're going to need to give us more than just two lines to prove that Crim did what you claim he did. SkyGreen24 13:50, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

So MP, Crim, Edge, and I talked last night for quite a while, and I believe we have settled this. MP said he just wanted to ask Sky to confirm whether or not Ms ever told him directly that Crim unbanned him. This was the result:



Feel free to confirm that yourself MP, but as my conversation concluded, Ms never told anyone that Crim unbanned him directly. Tr0llis (talk) 14:23, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

After my conversation with Sky, I have reached the conclusion that, while the reasoning behind it is confusing and difficult to understand, the verdict is valid in its reaction. Sky knows more and will be able to phrase it better than I can.

Petition denied.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 04:27, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Insulting
Not much in particular, but it would be appreciated if Scar is taught some manners. He has been using abusive language after apparently being 'provoked' (as he claims) because I had stated that his false move of invading Albania in a Map Game has resulted in his own demise. Regardless, the point is that he should refrain from abusing other players merely because they opposed him in a Map Game. Two players were told to "Shut the F*ck Up" and referred to as 'Assholes' because they planned to invade him. I was called a 'Cunt' and 'Asshole' because I stated that Yugoslavia would fall.



I don't want to cause friction with Scar but I can vouch for the above. It's not the first time he's gotten defensive and abusive. • 18:03, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Sometimes I think we should reset the game....

Stuff like Yugoslavia invading Albania and Austria invading Czechoslovakia, among others, like Fascist Ireland, are getting on my nerves. I may not have a say, but at the moment, we don't need to reset. Spartian300 (talk) 18:34, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

First of all, this belongs on the AvA page. Second of all, can you not do this stuff again? The mods have been handling the game fine(although I think they could use some help), and there's no reason to reset. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here) 18:35, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

I just feel it has gone ASB. Spartian300 (talk) 19:00, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Scar went out of line... No surprise. This is not his first time, if any of you (Horton/Rimp) feel harrassed by him, feel free to leave a message on my talk page. As for Scar, you've already gotten a ban for your behaviour, so I suggest you get it together, or suffer the consequences. I hope this settles this issue. SkyGreen24 20:08, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Grow some thicker skin. PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)

Nah, I don't really give a fuck about the things he says. But if others do feel offended we should do something. @ Spar - It has kinda gone ASB, nut no way do I want to restart. • 20:22, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

On another note, should we ban The Roaming User? He kinda singled me out as a wimp, and I just tried to stand up to him. Spartian300 (talk) 11:19, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Spartin300
Spartian300 is starting crap on chat agian The Royal Tank (talk) 23:16, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Ahhhh, shut up. I am tried, and grumpy, and going to bed. Way to early for this shit. Spartian300 (talk) 23:23, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Just saw the chat logs. Spar and Scar had another go at each other. They've done the same thing before in the past and both got a month for it. Doesn't look like they learned their lessons. Two months it is. Crim de la Crème 01:07, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

A Proposal
Our wiki is small compared to the rest of the althist community. In order to attract more members, a few users on chat have proposed we contact people such as Alternate history Hub (who now has over 130,000 subscribers) for a mention and also spread our name through althist reddits.

Well? Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

I'll also support this. Perhaps he promotes us in exchange, some users on this wiki help him on his videos or point out implausibilities.

Consul Ioshua (Talk) 22:12, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

This seems like a great idea. We'll get an influx of good users, and from what I've seen, his followers seem like very nice people. This could be very good for us, let's act on it. Upvote  - The March Sig  22:13, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

I like this idea, but what would be the specifics of it?

22:25, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, would need specifics. Lordganon (talk) 11:45, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

Also to keep in mind - all of our members are involved in creating new content. That huge number of subscribers to the channel are just viewers. So it's hard to make a direct comparison ... But does anyone know what happened to make it grow so suddenly? There is a video on the channel from less than two years ago celebrating 2000 subscribers! And there haven't been very many videos since then. As for connecting to that Channel, I don't know what would be done other than spamming them, and I don't see that as an effective way to get new contributors. Benkarnell (talk) 12:24, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

True. Lordganon (talk) 05:39, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Unlawful Promotion
I think it should be brought to the administration's attention that the user Edgeofnight is now a constable without an election.



Harvenard2 (talk) 03:31, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

First of all, there is a long story behind this. A bunch of supposed "cronies" came onto chat, in which an account named "Miggily" Harv claimed to be his sock. Because pita didn't want an all out shitstorm breaking out, and wanted some sleep, he made Edge a chat mod. That didn't seem to help. A majority of it and more is here, on this imgur album. I hope this clears things up. Saturn120 04:08, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Edge is no longer a chat mod and the situation is back into proper TSPTF hands.

Case Dismissed.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 04:26, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Sockpuppet: Maxalthistory and Maxwasson
User:Maxalthistory and User:Maxwasson may be the same person. Besides similar names, they also have made significant edits to the same article. Mitro (talk) 15:10, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Pretty strong feelers towards it. Will watch. Lordganon (talk) 19:57, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Nice of them to more or less confirm it on their own. Blocked for good. Lordganon (talk) 09:37, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism
DeusExScienta recently vandalized the Sandbox, replacing it this message:

"NOW I WILL HAVE THIS LAND! SUBMIT TO MY TERMS!


 * 1) No chicken


 * 1) No pork


 * 1) No veggies


 * 1) I am the Law


 * 1) Peasant are required to starve for 25 hours a day


 * 1) HANDS I HAVE HANDS


 * 1) You are dumpheads"

Now I hate to beat a dead horse, but I have pretty strong feelings that this is Ratc. For one, his username brings to mind the video game Deus Ex, something Ratc was notoriously fond of. In addition, he apparently lives on Mars, bringing to mind his thing for space exploration and all that. He has repeatedly vandalized the sandbox, after his edits were reverted, in addition, making him, if not Ratc, another rather annoying troll.

I have sent him a message notifying him of his vandalism. If any higher-up TSPTFer wishes to outright ban him, go ahead.

—Bfoxius (talk)

Inactive
I don't believe we have a policy about when a member of the Task Force is officially regarded as inactive. I bring this up partly because I'm recently returned and was surprised to find my name on the still-active list, even after about 3 years without contributing. There are others on the lists who have been inactive for about that long. It would be useful to everyone, I think, to see who has not contributed in, let's say, a year; leave a quick talk page message just to check in; and move them to Emeritus. I don't think we should fiddle with admins' powers - if Political Officer Sikulu, for instance, ever decided to come back, I think we should welcome him - but it would be helpful for all users if the admin list consisted of only active members who really can participate in everything. What does everyone think? Benkarnell (talk) 13:53, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. It lets people know who's available to help. Upvote  - The March Sig

Yeah I think we should move a number of people into the Emeritus section.

23:57, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

Been advocating something like this for some time now.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 18:27, April 9, 2015 (UTC)


 * Looking at contributions, I would actually suggest 6 months rather than a year. Not a big deal because it is easy to move one's name if one comes back. Benkarnell (talk) 22:45, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

Year, not six months. And how you went about doing that, Ben, was wrong, at best. They should have been notified first. Lordganon (talk) 11:40, April 13, 2015 (UTC)


 * Since nobody's responded (and undoing a Retirement is just a matter of moving your name), I think there's no harm done. But I get what you're saying - respect and courtesy are important. My main thought was that, since this is evidently promotion season, it would be good to have a clear list of who the current admins and mods are. And I'll certainly un-retire the (I think 2) names that fell between 6 months and a year, if that's what we want. Benkarnell (talk) 23:43, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Hello all, as one of those moved to the inactive area, I'd just like to say that I'm fine with where I was moved to and thank Benkarnell for letting me know on my page. If I have the time to return, it's no difficulty to move myself back to the active admin section. All the best. --Zack 00:23, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Don't worry about it for this one, Ben. My concern, imo, is that we have had guys that rarely, if ever, logged on during school terms, or the like. Year just sounds fairer overall, to me. Lordganon (talk) 11:06, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Chat Confusion
Today I was banned from chat for a day, and I am honestly not sure why. I don't mean to start a giant argument by making this threat, or get anyone in trouble, I am just genuinely confused as to what is going on. As far as I know I joined chat, started talking to Tr0llis about some sort of new map game he was planning, was having a friendly conversation with him, and then I was banned. It seems my questions are being ignored, so I just wanted to make this and hopefully get the attention of an administrator who can explain this. Again, I am simply confused as to what is going on. Don't even mean to argue, someone just tell me what I did so I can prevent myself from doing it in the future. Thanks, Harvenard2 (talk) 00:45, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

TSPTF Nominations
With how large the Wiki has gotten recently, we have (unfortunately) seen the rise of factions. In order to prevent faction-voting and polarization in the TSPTF, I'd like to propose we restrict who can nominate users to the TSPTF.

I proposes the following changes:
 * Users must be either a Constable or higher to nominate a user into the TSPTF
 * Users must be either a Lieutenant or higher to nominate a user for LT
 * TSPTF majority required for a nomination raised to 3/4 - from my experience, if a user's nomination is hotly contested by the TSPTF, it is better to not have nominated said user in the first place.

Thoughts?

PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)

Also, I feel like the moving of inactive officers to Emeritus is one that should be looked at. PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)

How does this prevent factions, all this does is favor one of them. Tr0llis (talk) 01:19, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah most of this sounds good. However the 3/4 majority should only be for LTs and Brass, while constables can continue to only require 2/3 majority.

01:37, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Scraw is right, constable elections aren't really that big of a deal. Yes, we should also look into moving inactive officers into Emeritus. —Bfoxius (talk)

Tr0llis, the issue right now (thankfully nothing has happened) is that anyone from any faction can nominate someone for the TSPTF, and as long as they have majority, said person gets in or gets promoted. With the current system, someone could nominate a total novice troll user and if he/she has enough support from the regulars and from the officers, the troll could get voted in. This creates the next problem, which is that said troll can vote for more of his own faction into the TSPTF and he'd be counted as part of the TSPTF vote.

This would also prevent non-faction related issues such as a totally unqualified individual being voted in (I'm looking at you, Toby).

Another change I would propose is that active Brass have the power to veto nominations, but only with a 2/3 supermajority - so if Ben, LG, and MP all decide to veto the nomination of Upvote, Upvote would not make it in. This would also help with unqualified individuals/trolls/popular users from getting voted in sheerly from vote and not merit.

And if no one has any objections to moving inactive TSPTF to Emeritus by Saturday I'm going to assume I can.

Thanks everyone for reading,

PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)


 * Rather surprised this wasn't already a rule. -- 02:52, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Are Ben, MP, and LG the only active brass? --


 * I feel not having a "lazy democracy" is the best way to prevent factions from taking control of the Wiki. With all due respect Pita, I feel the system you propose would give the TSPTF too much power and run the risk of it becoming a "good old boys club" where current members only allow their friends to join instead of accepting the consensus of the community. Remember the TSPTF was only ever supposed to be a group of volunteers who took on the technical duties of running the Wiki and mediating disputes should they arise. The community as a whole should always have the real power. Again that is the ideal situation, I realize now that the culture of the Wiki puts a lot of emphasis on the opinions and decisions of TSPTF members.
 * Furthermore, the scenario you mention is unlikely to happen considering even constables need to have at least 6 months of good behavior. If they are a "troll" and have been reprimanded for bad behavior by TSPTF (by warning on talk page or temporary block), then they would be ineligible for nomination regardless of how many votes they get.
 * Also, what factions? Is this really an issue we need to rework the rules for? It seems like a lot of concern over nothing, but then again I have not been as active as before. Mitro (talk) 16:57, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Factions have become pretty significant in the wiki in the last two years, the largest and most notorious being the "Mscovites" or "Cronies," those who band with controversial user Mscoree. And regarding unqualified individuals, I do not believe either JoshTheRoman nor Toby2 were qualified for their nomination/promotion.

I do understand your concern about the TSPTF becoming a faction in itself, however. PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)

I got voted in same as you. Democracy. Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

Pita do you have any real arguments against Josh or Toby? Cause you are just saying they're unqualified without providing any proof <font color="Navy">Hail Sean!  (Get a free potato here) 19:41, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

There are no real "factions" on here. It's all drama that users with nothing better to do harp about on the chat. Also Pita, if you don't think someone is not qualified for their nominations/promotions, simply vote "no" on their nomination. It's that easy. —Bfoxius (talk)

To be honest I don't see "factions" as a problem. Nothing like what Pita has described has ever come remotely close to happening, especially since in his scenario a hypothetical troll account would need the support of several TSPTF, and I assume that Pita and company would have the common sense not to do that. The fact that legitimate users, ie not troll accounts, like Mscoree (regardless of your opinion of him) have had giant majorities and still have not got in, show that Pita is vastly overestimating the ability of any given user to be elected. We already have plenty of checks in place, at the end of the day if they are a good candidate they tend to get in. This seems like paranoia to me, especially the part about a "domino effect" of troll accounts all being elected. And to be honest it just sounds like Pita personally dislikes the nomination of a few, like Toby, but they got in fair and square. Tr0llis (talk) 23:55, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

So, I see in this post that MP is Brass, but I cannot find that anywhere else on the wiki... what's up with that? Anyhow... CONGRATULATIONS to MP. Definitely the most deserving to be promoted (Nuke is also up there)! Anyhow, I was gone for over a month and now I (may) be back! As for the ideas laid out by Pita, I support the TSPTF nomination rule and moving people to Emeritus, but that is about it. 11:25, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

Should I say again that getting into the TSPTF shouldn't be based off of popularity, but merit? No offense to Toby, but his contributions to the Wiki aren't significant enough to warrant a promotion to LT. He has not extensively fought against vandals/trolls nor has he engaged in lots of copy-editing. Most of his edits are on map games, and I honestly don't know if he pays attention to the rest of the Wiki. My point was more on users getting elected because they are popular, rather than because they are qualified. And I believe this has, as I've stated multiple times, happened already. I'm not going to cry over Toby's nomination. Hopefully I am proven wrong. PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)

On another note, should pages regarding elections be categorized under "Elections" and pages talking about music be categorized under "Music?" PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 6)


 * The system as it is already has a huge check on popularity contest; namely, that it is necessary to get a supermajority of tsptf votes as well as a supermajority of non-tsptf votes. Until very recently, most promotions that passed did so with unanimous support, a sign that our system did a good job defining consensus.
 * Echoing Mitro, it's important to remember that, badges and silly titles notwithstanding, the TSPTF are managers and coordinators, not The Authorities. A Wiki format is all about collaboration by the whole community, and the job of the TSPTF is to maintain a context where the collaboration can happen smoothly (by keeping out vandals, etc.).  I don't think we need to put needless restrictions on where our admins come from.
 * Regarding inactive members, I say go ahead. Scrawland, Monster Pumpkin, and I support the idea above.  I can help with that if you want to divide up the work.
 * Regarding the new categories, shouldn't that be a separate topic on this page? But go ahead and create them, I say.
 * Benkarnell (talk) 21:34, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

The concept of "factions" is vastly overrated.

Nominations... Constables, irrelevant. Little to no power. Past that, they have block rights, which are more of a problem. But until someone we want nowhere near it gets constable, it's not something to worry about.

Though... a line needs to be added that with no position already, one cannot be nominated for the higher spots, or nominate for them.

Categories... wrong spot, and a case by case basis.

Lordganon (talk) 11:44, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

If it was a rule that all nominations must be made by an already existing member of the TSPTF, then you Lordganon wouldn't have even entered it when/how you did. Tr0llis (talk) 01:02, April 14, 2015 (UTC)