Talk:Ninety-Five Theses (Map Game)

= Resources =

1.01

 * Front score modifier changed from (TotalScore)*(1.5/NumberOfFronts) to (TotalScore)*(1.8/Number of Fronts)
 * Reasoning: score was being cut too harshly to have more than 1 front
 * Industry score of ALL other participating nations outside the Leaders is cut in two
 * Reasoning: reduce coalition wank

1.02

 * Defender advantage changed from +20 to +12
 * Reasoning: too damn high
 * Changed victory score differential from flat +30 to different values depending on defending nation military tier:
 * +45 for Tier 6
 * +35 for Tier 5
 * +32 for Tier 4
 * +28 for Tier 3
 * +23 for Tier 2
 * +16 for Tier 1
 * Reasoning: too hard for lower power level nations to win

1.03

 * Penalty per year war waged beyond 7 changed from -3 to -5
 * Reasoning: increase war weariness as in reality
 * Industry score calculation changed to this:
 * Leaders = +Industry tier
 * Full participation = +Industry tier/2
 * Partial participation = +Industry tier/4
 * Reasoning: reduce coalition wank

1.04

 * Victory score differentials rescaled:
 * For defending nation
 * +65 for Tier 6
 * +55 for Tier 5
 * +44 for Tier 4
 * +31 for Tier 3
 * +16 for Tier 2
 * +10 for Tier 1
 * Reasoning: too easy to win wars

1.05

 * Tactical advantage is now divided by (NationMilitaryTier/24)
 * Reasoning: nerf defender bonus
 * Motive is now divided by (NationMilitaryTier/21)
 * Reasoning: nerf defender bonus

1.06

 * Island bonus reduced from +15 to +8
 * Reasoning: islands too stronk

1.07

 * Troop number is now calculated by dividing number of troops by 10,000
 * Reasoning: Pita did this anyways, but never got around to changing it in the rules.

War

 * Current score differential:
 * Additional score differential needed to win:
 * Link:
 * Mod:

Portuguese Invasion of the Balearics

 * Current score differential: -10.93888889
 * Additional score differential needed to win: 40.93888889
 * 1526: Spain wins 119.2833333 to 108.3444444, containing Portuguese forces
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18lncaYZDvJvhe3v07ayKT_9qELMrPNZd-yPkd4FDeGg/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

French-Savoy War

 * Current score differential: 77 in favor of France/Switzerland
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1526: France and Switzerland win 158.9041667 to 81.90416667, forcing the Duchy to capitulate.
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S-M-6lPzkZGb_cl-fEqWDpeAFmVKb4H-K-h5I9kN6hU/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Venetian Invasion of Sardinia

 * Current score differential: +27.255952377
 * Additional score differential needed to win: 37.744047623
 * 1525: Venice wins 163.7015873 to 155.8694444, making a beachhead into heavy fighting
 * 1526: Venice wins 156.5515873 to 137.1277778, pushing deeper into the island
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hUCatzwQbTtHG1EVRsMRLfkLt1F53vqdVk_bSABZl48/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

French Invasion of Naples

 * Current score differential: 33.29325397 for France
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1525: France wins 137.9988095 to 104.7055556, conquering Naples
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_JFqgopZSGeVUE8dwCw0srEmoAF-9HUEXjg84HFIHos/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Franco-Spanish War

 * Current score differential: 84.00595237
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1525: Spain wins 164.7420635 to 146.6958333, repulsing invading French and English forces
 * 1526: French and Anglo forces win 150.0708333 to 126.9315476, pushing slightly into Castille
 * 1527: French and Anglo forces win 202.0944444 to 123.1815476, crushing through Spanish forces and capturing Valladolid
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vHSpcR7Yq7-m9XryznyxoncapUrnz0y1oG7VJskdvsQ/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Nogai Khanate vs Astrakhan

 * Current score differential: +14.43333333 for Astrakhan
 * Additional score differential needed to win: 44.43333333
 * 1523: Astrakhan wins 110.5666667 to 96.13333333
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CvtqopeqoCWKH2x8rpuTs8TOXDkPBl48cUTCUUk8j_I/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Muscovy vs Poland Lithuania

 * Current score differential: + 24.33333333 for Muscovy and Ostland
 * Score differential needed to win: 7.66666667
 * 1520: Muscovy and Ostland win 177.15 to 152.8166667, carving into Poland Lithuania
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UAc3coKyDpphJHV0zLqBHR8viF1jDcFE0M-wBTB9uk0/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Ottomans vs Hasfids (1522-1523)

 * Current score differential: + 49.60533333 in favor of the Ottomans
 * Score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1522:' Ottomans win 175.422 to 125.8166667
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TkiZQ1jVZNnO5asJe8reQXqj16P7QDEwymzmc6TR3Ac/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Tibet vs Arakan (1522-1523)

 * Current score differential: 18.03333333
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1522: Tibet wins by a score of 96.46666667 to 88.95
 * 1523: Tibet wins by a score of 96.46666667 to 85.95
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12hdYdkQtG6xjaPxjHzONizxifnJ2BnmWxeDYmBBqTb4/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Venetian-Hungarian War (1520-1521)

 * Current score differential +89.26666667 in favor of Venice
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1520: Venice and Co defeat Hungary and Co 291.8 to 202.5333333, crushing their military and forcing them back
 * 1521: Venice and Co defeat Hungary and Co 268.3 to 213.0333333, effectively winning the war.
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1segY09sL5oFxdQG7sLVEWY4n-9_qyrlknq1SGVT5Z3Q/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Delhi-Bikaner War (1519-1520)

 * Current score differential: + 20.39999994for Delhi
 * Additional score differential needed to win: 25.80000003
 * 1519: Delhi wins 96.98333333 to 92.78333333 - slightly in favor of Delhi
 * 1520: Delhi wins 104.4833333 to 88.28333333 - Delhi is beginning to win
 * Delhi: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kYuERLg99xHg1bRs065ASoEc0jV9q9LXRYk8_qfFsLA/edit?usp=sharing
 * Bikaner:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TKZo5g2U2kpUgqGeB84-XC1OoPLa5dBvPxa8NXDuL6U/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Songhai-Jolof War (1519-1520)

 * Current score differential: +20.1 in favor of Songhai
 * Additional score differential needed to win: 21.45
 * 1519: Songhai wins by a score of 97.1 to 88.55 - makes good headway into the country
 * 1520: Songhai wins by a score of 97.1 to 85.55 - almost victory
 * Jolof: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BfwnSlqCcVVqRSSszronbyyBFQdHzk6yyNK4iNhlp30/edit?usp=sharing
 * Songhai: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qQsgajr5NTGOu7OOI-sPsdkrqNjc3xaBAgvkNCqyMNU/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Spain-Aztec and OTL new Orleans tribes (1520)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/149O5orez0SntHk3eRZPrby5OeAkeLEgUjb-tx_y6Stc/edit?usp=sharing
 * Current score differential: +43.93333333 in favor of Spain
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1520: Spain wins by a score of 147.6166667 to 103.6833333, forcing the Aztecs to surrender
 * Link:
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Timurid-Sistan War (1519-1520)

 * Current score differential: +51.36666666 for Timurid Empire
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1519: Timurid Empire wins 139.65 to 115.4666667
 * 1520: Timurid Empire wins 139.65 to 112.4666667
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qo9hiGZprzf9KxDI6wAL0j_H_EGi4okJ6-n5bXpD49o/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

China vs Poor Tribes (1519)

 * Current score differential: 43.8375 for China
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1519: China wins 141.9875 to 98.15
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QmmoowlIXPiSWMynUBJPzf2qBwT2_S2j5deiOrPAYb4/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Ottoman-Persian War (1519-1520)

 * Current score differential: +94.43333333 for Ottomans
 * Additional score differential needed to win: lol
 * 1519: The Ottoman Empire wins 168.0166667 to 151.725 - Ottomans and Bukharans make good headway into Persia
 * 1520: The Ottoman Empire wins 155.6333333 to 77.49166667 - Persia capitulates
 * Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mm5RA__Nt-0TmMeNUxzs6KvULmsYx65qQclQqGTXAr8/edit?usp=sharing
 * Mod: Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Tier 6 (+25)

 * France
 * Spain
 * Austria

Tier 5 (+17)

 * China
 * Ottoman Empire
 * England
 * Portugal
 * Venice
 * Russia

Tier 4 (+12)

 * Denmark
 * Scotland
 * Hungary
 * Brandenburg
 * Bavaria
 * Switzerland
 * Genoa
 * Poland Lithuania
 * Persia
 * Timurid
 * Saxony
 * Benin
 * Korea
 * Minsk
 * Zhytomyr

Tier 3 (+7)

 * Savoy
 * Norway
 * Sweden
 * Moldavia
 * Turfan
 * Songhai
 * Kashgar
 * Bukhara
 * Ostland
 * Hasfids
 * Oyo
 * Nabhani Sultanate (Oman)
 * Teutonic Knights
 * Lowlands
 * Livonian Order
 * Milan
 * Florence
 * Papal States
 * Ryazan
 * Astrakhan
 * Ayutthaya
 * Kazan
 * Nogai
 * Bengal
 * Delhi
 * Kazakh Khanate
 * Sistan
 * Vijayanagara
 * Württemberg

Tier 2 (+4)

 * Aztecs
 * Ethiopia
 * Sibir
 * Mongolia
 * Khiva
 * Khmer Empire
 * Navarre
 * Pfalz
 * Cologne
 * Liege
 * Saluzzo
 * Montferrat
 * Mantua
 * Ferrara
 * Modena
 * Pontremali
 * Lucca
 * Elba
 * Pimbino
 * Siena
 * Tyrol
 * Munster
 * Salzberg
 * Würzburg
 * Brunswick-Lüneburg
 * Lorraine
 * Mecklenburg
 * Pomerania
 * Rhodes
 * Wallachia
 * Ashikaga Japan
 * Tibet
 * Oirat
 * Kashmir
 * Futa Toro
 * Wagadugu
 * Gurma
 * Kenkodogo
 * Mamprussi
 * Gonja
 * Dagomba
 * Bono
 * Heman
 * Allada
 * Agona
 * Ife
 * Warri
 * Brass
 * Bonny
 * Bamoun
 * Kebbi
 * Yauri
 * Zamfara
 * Gobir
 * Biram
 * Zaria
 * Kano
 * Daura
 * Katsina
 * Daniski
 * Hadejia
 * Empire of Bornu
 * Mandera
 * Bagirmi
 * Wadai
 * Cherokee
 * Inca
 * Owari

Tier 1 (+2)

 * Tumed
 * Chachar
 * Jolof
 * Godwana
 * Matsumae
 * Mutsu
 * Dewa
 * Echigo
 * Aizu
 * Shimotzuke
 * Hitachi
 * Shimosa
 * Kasuza
 * Satomi Awa
 * Sagami
 * Suruga
 * Musashi
 * Etchu
 * Noto
 * Inaba
 * Mikawa
 * Ise
 * Yamashiro
 * Omi
 * Harima
 * Kwatchi
 * Hosokawa Awa
 * Iyo
 * Izumo
 * Aki
 * Suo
 * Tsushima
 * Chikuzen
 * Bungo
 * Hyuga
 * Higo
 * Hizen
 * Chikugo
 * Satsuma
 * Ryukyu
 * Majapahit
 * Pajajaran
 * Johore Sultanate
 * Aceh Sultanate
 * Padir
 * Pasai
 * Perlak
 * Aru
 * Jambi
 * Palembang
 * Demak Sulatanate
 * Gresik
 * Bali
 * Sumbawa
 * Bimi
 * Sambas
 * Sulu
 * Sukada
 * Sampit
 * Banjarmasin
 * Pasir
 * Kutei
 * Berau
 * Makassar
 * Luwu
 * Butung
 * Laiwu
 * Bungku
 * Buol
 * Banggai
 * Gorotnalo
 * Jailolo
 * Tidore
 * Bacan
 * Magindanau
 * Brunei
 * Ternate
 * Pegu
 * Laos
 * Ava
 * Shans Tribes
 * Toungoo
 * Cheingmai
 * Assam
 * Mrohaung
 * Dai Viet
 * Ceylon
 * Multan
 * Sindh
 * Gujarat
 * Malwa
 * Kandesh
 * Ahmadnagar
 * Bijapur
 * Bahmani
 * Berar
 * Gajapatis
 * Bikaner
 * Jalsalmeer
 * Marwar
 * Mewar
 * Mandia
 * Garha
 * Deogarh
 * Patan
 * Koch
 * Maldives
 * Baluchi
 * Yemen
 * Papuan Angu tribe
 * Kongo
 * Ndongo
 * Lunda
 * Rwanda
 * Nkore
 * Karagwe
 * Bunyoro
 * Buganda
 * Rozwi
 * Great Zimbabwe
 * Adal
 * Funj
 * Michoacan
 * Culican
 * Chametlan
 * Astatlan
 * Tonallan
 * Coinan
 * Poncitlan
 * Cuitzeo
 * Ayutitlan
 * Azmola
 * Colimotl
 * Xilotan
 * Huextla
 * Metztitlan
 * <Hueyacocotlan
 * Tlaxcalans
 * Huetzcotzingo
 * Cholula
 * Yopitzingo
 * Tototopec
 * Nuuntoo
 * Coatlicamac
 * Guaspaltepec
 * Xaltepec
 * Ualtepec
 * Coatzacualco
 * Yahualulco
 * Potonchan
 * Chilapa
 * Xicallanco
 * Chanputun
 * Ahcanul
 * Chakan
 * Cehpech
 * Ahkinchel
 * Chauaca
 * Cupul
 * Hocaba
 * Susuta
 * Tutulxiu
 * Ecab
 * Cohcuah
 * Huaymil
 * Mazanahau
 * Tayasal
 * Chiapen
 * Chicomuceltec
 * Comitan
 * Cupanahuastla
 * Uatlan
 * Chiya
 * Iximiche
 * Cuscatlan
 * Guayaqil

Tier 6 (+33)

 * France
 * Spain
 * Austria
 * China
 * Ottoman Empire

Tier 5 (+26)

 * England
 * Portugal
 * Venice

Tier 4 (+17)

 * Scotland
 * Poland Lithuania
 * Hungary
 * Brandenburg
 * Bavaria
 * Switzerland
 * Genoa
 * Persia
 * Timurid
 * Russia
 * Saxony
 * Denmark
 * Benin
 * Korea
 * Minsk
 * Zhytomyr

Tier 3 (+7)

 * Oman
 * Sweden
 * Norway
 * Moldavia
 * Songhai
 * Turfan
 * Kashgar
 * Bukhara
 * Ostland
 * Hasfids
 * Oyo
 * Nabhani Sultanate (Oman)
 * Teutonic Knights
 * Lowlands
 * Livonian Order
 * Milan
 * Florence
 * Papal States
 * Ryazan
 * Astrakhan
 * Kazan
 * Nogai
 * Ayutthaya
 * Bengal
 * Delhi
 * Kazakh Khanate
 * Sistan

Tier 2 (+3)

 * Khmer Empire
 * Navarre
 * Pfalz
 * Cologne
 * Liege
 * Saluzzo
 * Montferrat
 * Mantua
 * Ferrara
 * Modena
 * Pontremali
 * Lucca
 * Elba
 * Pimbino
 * Siena
 * Tyrol
 * Württemberg
 * Munster
 * Salzberg
 * Würzburg
 * Brunswick-Lüneburg
 * Lorraine
 * Mecklenburg
 * Pomerania
 * Rhodes
 * Wallachia
 * Vijayanagara
 * Owari

Tier 1 (+1)

 * Tumed
 * Chachar
 * Jolof
 * Godwana
 * Inca
 * Ashikaga Japan
 * Tibet
 * Oirat
 * Kashmir
 * Futa Toro
 * Wagadugu
 * Gurma
 * Kenkodogo
 * Mamprussi
 * Gonja
 * Dagomba
 * Bono
 * Heman
 * Allada
 * Agona
 * Ife
 * Warri
 * Brass
 * Bonny
 * Bamoun
 * Kebbi
 * Yauri
 * Zamfara
 * Gobir
 * Biram
 * Zaria
 * Kano
 * Daura
 * Katsina
 * Daniski
 * Hadejia
 * Empire of Bornu
 * Mandera
 * Bagirmi
 * Wadai
 * Matsumae
 * Cherokee
 * Mutsu
 * Dewa
 * Echigo
 * Aizu
 * Shimotzuke
 * Hitachi
 * Shimosa
 * Kasuza
 * Satomi Awa
 * Sagami
 * Suruga
 * Musashi
 * Etchu
 * Noto
 * Inaba
 * Mikawa
 * Ise
 * Yamashiro
 * Omi
 * Harima
 * Kwatchi
 * Hosokawa Awa
 * Iyo
 * Izumo
 * Aki
 * Suo
 * Tsushima
 * Chikuzen
 * Bungo
 * Hyuga
 * Higo
 * Hizen
 * Chikugo
 * Satsuma
 * Ryukyu
 * Majapahit-
 * Pajajaran-
 * Johore Sultanate
 * Aceh Sultanate
 * Padir
 * Pasai
 * Perlak
 * Aru
 * Jambi
 * Palembang
 * Demak Sulatanate
 * Gresik
 * Bali
 * Sumbawa
 * Bimi
 * Sambas
 * Sulu
 * Sukada
 * Sampit
 * Banjarmasin
 * Pasir
 * Kutei
 * Berau
 * Makassar
 * Luwu
 * Butung
 * Laiwu
 * Bungku
 * Buol
 * Banggai
 * Gorotnalo
 * Jailolo
 * Tidore
 * Bacan
 * Magindanau
 * Brunei
 * Ternate
 * Pegu
 * Laos
 * Ava
 * Shans Tribes
 * Toungoo
 * Cheingmai
 * Assam
 * Mrohaung
 * Dai Viet
 * Ceylon -
 * Multan -
 * Sindh -
 * Gujarat -
 * Malwa -
 * Kandesh -
 * Ahmadnagar -
 * Bijapur -
 * Bahmani -
 * Berar -
 * Gajapatis -
 * Bikaner
 * Jalsalmeer
 * Marwar
 * Mewar
 * Mandia
 * Garha
 * Deogarh
 * Patan
 * Koch
 * Maldives
 * Baluchi
 * Yemen
 * Papuan Angu tribe
 * Kongo -
 * Ndongo
 * Lunda
 * Rwanda
 * Nkore
 * Karagwe
 * Bunyoro
 * Buganda
 * Rozwi
 * Great Zimbabwe
 * Adal
 * Funj
 * Michoacan
 * Culican
 * Chametlan
 * Astatlan
 * Tonallan
 * Coinan
 * Poncitlan
 * Cuitzeo
 * Ayutitlan
 * Azmola
 * Colimotl
 * Xilotan
 * Huextla
 * Metztitlan
 * <Hueyacocotlan
 * Tlaxcalans
 * Huetzcotzingo
 * Cholula
 * Yopitzingo
 * Tototopec
 * Nuuntoo
 * Coatlicamac
 * Guaspaltepec
 * Xaltepec
 * Ualtepec
 * Coatzacualco
 * Yahualulco
 * Chilapa
 * Xicallanco
 * Chanputun
 * Ahcanul
 * Chakan
 * Cehpech
 * Ahkinchel
 * Chauaca
 * Cupul
 * Hocaba
 * Susuta
 * Tutulxiu
 * Ecab
 * Cohcuah
 * Huaymil
 * Mazanahau
 * Tayasal
 * Chiapen
 * Chicomuceltec
 * Comitan
 * Cupanahuastla
 * Uatlan
 * Chiya
 * Iximiche
 * Cuscatlan
 * Guayaqil
 * Oman
 * Aztecs
 * Ethiopia
 * Sibir
 * Mongolia
 * Khiva

Tier 6 (+22)

 * France
 * Spain
 * Austria
 * China
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Norway
 * England
 * Portugal
 * Venice
 * Genoa
 * Milan
 * Ostland
 * Brandenburg
 * Bavaria
 * Switzerland
 * Genoa
 * Saxony
 * Livonian Order
 * Teutonic Knights
 * Milan
 * Florence
 * Papal States
 * Navarre
 * Pfalz
 * Cologne
 * Liege
 * Saluzzo
 * Montferrat
 * Mantua
 * Ferrara
 * Modena
 * Pontremali
 * Lucca
 * Elba
 * Pimbino
 * Siena
 * Tyrol
 * Württemberg
 * Munster
 * Salzberg
 * Würzburg
 * Brunswick-Lüneburg
 * Lorraine
 * Mecklenburg
 * Pomerania
 * Rhodes
 * Savoy

Tier 5 (+15)

 * Ottoman Empire
 * Scotland
 * Poland Lithuania
 * Hungary
 * Russia
 * Lowlands
 * Wallachia
 * Korea
 * Minsk
 * Zhytomyr

Tier 4 (+11)

 * Persia
 * Timurid
 * Benin

Tier 3 (+6)

 * Oman
 * Moldavia
 * Songhai
 * Hasfids
 * Oyo
 * Nabhani Sultanate (Oman)
 * Ryazan
 * Astrakhan
 * Kazan
 * Nogai
 * Ayutthaya
 * Bengal
 * Delhi
 * Kazakh Khanate
 * Sistan
 * Ethiopia
 * Turfan
 * Kashgar
 * Bukhara
 * Vijayanagara

Tier 2 (+3)

 * Khmer Empire
 * Inca
 * Ashikaga Japan
 * Tibet
 * Oirat
 * Kashmir
 * Futa Toro
 * Wagadugu
 * Gurma
 * Kenkodogo
 * Mamprussi
 * Gonja
 * Dagomba
 * Bono
 * Heman
 * Allada
 * Agona
 * Ife
 * Warri
 * Brass
 * Bonny
 * Bamoun
 * Kebbi
 * Yauri
 * Zamfara
 * Gobir
 * Biram
 * Zaria
 * Kano
 * Daura
 * Katsina
 * Daniski
 * Hadejia
 * Empire of Bornu
 * Mandera
 * Bagirmi
 * Wadai
 * Matsumae
 * Cherokee
 * Mutsu
 * Dewa
 * Echigo
 * Aizu
 * Shimotzuke
 * Hitachi
 * Shimosa
 * Kasuza
 * Satomi Awa
 * Sagami
 * Suruga
 * Musashi
 * Etchu
 * Noto
 * Inaba
 * Mikawa
 * Ise
 * Owari
 * Yamashiro
 * Omi
 * Harima
 * Kwatchi
 * Hosokawa Awa
 * Iyo
 * Izumo
 * Aki
 * Suo
 * Tsushima
 * Chikuzen
 * Bungo
 * Hyuga
 * Higo
 * Hizen
 * Chikugo
 * Satsuma
 * Ryukyu
 * Majapahit
 * Pajajaran
 * Johore Sultanate
 * Aceh Sultanate
 * Padir
 * Pasai
 * Perlak
 * Aru
 * Jambi
 * Palembang
 * Demak Sulatanate
 * Gresik
 * Bali
 * Sumbawa
 * Bimi
 * Sambas
 * Sulu
 * Sukada
 * Sampit
 * Banjarmasin
 * Pasir
 * Kutei
 * Berau
 * Makassar
 * Luwu
 * Butung
 * Laiwu
 * Bungku
 * Buol
 * Banggai
 * Gorotnalo
 * Jailolo
 * Tidore
 * Bacan
 * Magindanau
 * Brunei
 * Ternate
 * Pegu
 * Laos
 * Ava
 * Shans Tribes
 * Toungoo
 * Cheingmai
 * Assam
 * Mrohaung
 * Dai Viet
 * Ceylon
 * Multan
 * Sindh
 * Gujarat
 * Malwa
 * Kandesh
 * Ahmadnagar
 * Bijapur
 * Bahmani
 * Berar
 * Gajapatis
 * Bikaner
 * Jalsalmeer
 * Marwar
 * Mewar
 * Mandia
 * Garha
 * Deogarh
 * Patan
 * Koch
 * Maldives
 * Baluchi
 * Yemen
 * Michoacan
 * Culican
 * Chametlan
 * Astatlan
 * Tonallan
 * Coinan
 * Poncitlan
 * Cuitzeo
 * Ayutitlan
 * Azmola
 * Colimotl
 * Xilotan
 * Huextla
 * Metztitlan
 * Hueyacocotlan
 * Tlaxcalans
 * Huetzcotzingo
 * Cholula
 * Yopitzingo
 * Tototopec
 * Nuuntoo
 * Coatlicamac
 * Guaspaltepec
 * Xaltepec
 * Ualtepec
 * Coatzacualco
 * Yahualulco
 * Chilapa
 * Xicallanco
 * Chanputun
 * Ahcanul
 * Chakan
 * Cehpech
 * Ahkinchel
 * Chauaca
 * Cupul
 * Hocaba
 * Susuta
 * Tutulxiu
 * Ecab
 * Cohcuah
 * Huaymil
 * Mazanahau
 * Tayasal
 * Chiapen
 * Chicomuceltec
 * Comitan
 * Cupanahuastla
 * Uatlan
 * Chiya
 * Iximiche
 * Cuscatlan
 * Guayaqil
 * Oman
 * Aztecs
 * Sibir
 * Mongolia
 * Khiva
 * Godwana

Tier 1 (+1)

 * Tumed
 * Chachar
 * Papuan Angu tribe
 * Kongo
 * Ndongo
 * Lunda
 * Rwanda
 * Nkore
 * Karagwe
 * Bunyoro
 * Buganda
 * Rozwi
 * Great Zimbabwe
 * Adal
 * Funj
 * Jolof

Algo Template
New algo template in case the previous one wasn't dank enough. SkyGreen24

Map Issues
 All issues with the current map shall be posted under here.

My country (Württemberg) has still not been coloured in. I also control the city of Memel and its surrounds (from southernmost extreme of OTL Kaliningrad Oblast to Memel itself). 
 * 1) EED448 is the colour I would like for my country. Thanks —  The  Tim   Man  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 01:32, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

Someone please tell this guy how ridiculous and improbable, not to mention implausible, it is for Württemberg, a landlocked state in southern Germany, to control territory on the southeast Baltic coast. I am that guy (talk) 01:53, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

I realise it is not the most probable thing in the world, but I did participate in the war against Poland-Lithuania, and I did win territory on the Baltic coast, which the player of Poland-Lithuania (Spar) confirmed was ceded to my control. I've already been controlling the Memelland for some time; if you saw an issue, you should have said so soon after I claimed the place, and no one else has a problem with it. Also, if you'd be so kind, please refer to others by name, not "this guy" or "that guy" as my name is not "that guy." —  The  Tim   Man  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 03:48, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

If it's implausible, it shouldn't be allowed. No country in the early sixteenth century, even if it was part of a victorious side in a war, would try to take a detached price of land three hundred miles away, communication lag would be horrendous, not to mention there's ten independent countries between you and it, and free passage wasn't a thing during this time. If both parts had a sea port, there's a very remote possibility, but you're landlocked, with no direct access to the sea. There's no plausible reason this should be allowed by the moderators. I am that guy (talk) 04:52, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

Just sowing my new lands colonized in the New World - Scarlet Outlaw



Using my own maps and tracking of expansions, this is what my nation should look like now: I would like to thank Feud for making Borealia possible  20:05, March 2, 2016 (UTC)



When the next map is made this is the Kingdom of Maputa -- Jbwncster   (Talk)   23:04, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Korea has established colonies in the Sakhalin, Taiwan, and Hokkaido, each of them are 10px. Korea has expanded 250px into Manchuria near the Chinese–Korean border. ~There was a candy,  and it said,  "Yo' shit, I'm coming for you, bruh. Oi bitch, g'day, you wanna mate?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Ayutthaya in 1537 (with Johor and Andaman settlement). Thanks, 08:16, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

After we defeat Bavaria, Maximilian, son of Ferdinand I, a Catholic prince is installed as the Duke of Bavaria, though we annex Bayern Munchen, half of Bayern Landshut and two thirds of Bayern Ingolstadt into our nation with many Catholic nobles which are our supporters are given lands and titles there, which are taken away from Evangelical nobles and we give Burggrafschaft the remaining one third of Bayern Ingolstadt (the northern part), in an effort to improve our ties with them. '''So i annexed half of bavaria as shown in the map, and Burggrafschaft took the remaining one third of Bayern Ingolstadt (the northern part). Plus Burggrafschaft, Burgau and Oettingen are my vassals and Burgundy isn't they have decleared independence. Wrto12 (talk) 10:37, March 5, 2016 (UTC)'''

Technology Table
= General Discussion =

Moderator Applications
An application should be formatted like the following;

* Username & Link

** Games Modded Before

* Date Joined

** Edits

* A couple sentences on why you should be on my mod team.

For example, like this;


 * Saturn1257
 * Second Age of Imperialism (Never started)
 * February 22nd, 2014
 * 4,210
 * I would like to be a moderator for Nintey Five Thesis because this wiki hasn't seem any high-quality map games since the begining of PM. If you select me, I can help with mod events, plausibility modding, and overall make the game better.

Regards, Sat (Talk to me!) 17:05, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

''' Moderator applications are now closed. Thank you for all who applied! However, because of the amount of applicants, not everybody was able to be chosen. I formally apologize if you were not selected. So, without further ado, here is your Ninety Five Theses moderator staff! '''


 * Saturn1257
 * PitaKang
 * Feudalplague
 * Edgeofnight
 * Reximus55
 * CrimsonAssassin
 * Daxus Inferno
 * Krasnoyarsk

Applicants
*  *  *
 * Nathan1123
 * A Whole New world (Map Games Wiki), Dawn of War (Map Game)
 * December 28, 2014
 * 1,300 i think
 * This game involves heavy colonization early on, so I believe the game needs a moderator with a good understanding of that

*  *  *
 * ForsakenPear
 * The Greater Americas
 * November 29, 2011
 * ~1,100
 * I know my stuff on Reformation times and am a strong advocate of brutally realistic mod events so I think I could help keep things in check. Also I need something to do.

*  *  *
 * Reximus55
 * Zeitgeist, Alternate Nations 3, Second Age of Imperialism (Never Started)
 * March 29, 2013
 * ~19,500
 * I will bring extensive experience and dedication to the overall functioning of this game. I will work to create a PM3-style set of pages and templates (as I did early on for that game), actively help update the map, and assist in the creation of mod events that fairly create plausibility. Additionally, I have a deep understanding of Early Modern European history, and would be an asset to the moderator team in that sense.

*  *  *
 * Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)
 * November, 19, 2010 (get off my lawn)
 * 10,000
 * You know the drill. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

*  *  *
 * Krasnoyarsk
 * Congress of Vienna Reloaded, The Global War (nothing good)
 * March 14, 2014
 * 2,147
 * I'm sane, competent, and playing a fairly small country and so unlikely to have a vested interest in any disputes. Plus I have a fair amount of knowledge about the period.

*  *  *
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * May 12 2013
 * Edits: 7414
 * Took a long break from the wiki but ive modded PMIII, created multiple games, and been mods of multiple successful games (a few of which have only died cause of some circumstances i couldnt help) Ive gotten alot better and grown up a bunch since being a PM Mod and am much more open to criticism and argument. Would love to join this promising Mod Team.


 * Edge
 * Pm3, AvA, A ton on the MGW
 * 12/12/13
 * 2,425
 * I can make maps, I can do algos, I can evaluate argumentation and mediate conflicts. I, unlike most of my fellow applicants, am not playing as a potentially major power or any nation at all. (See Feud, Pita, Nate, Kras, FP), meaning I can do any algo, mod response, etc with not interest because I don't have a nation. I'm also a professional hardass so I can't be bribed or persuaded by emotion. I can help write the rules, design the algo, etc. To continue the me circle jerk, I have a background in early European history,specially the 16-1800s. Edge will make AH great again. #VoteEdge1517

*  *  *
 * Crim
 * PMI, PMII, PM III, a few AvA games, all BFE games
 * September 21, 2010 (fite me, Pita)
 * 7,011
 * I have extensive experience with modding before. I have the ability to say what needs to be said and do what needs to be said. As part of the Map Game Committee, I also intend to ensure that this map game doesn't get anywhere near the state of 'hectic.'

<p style="text-align:center;">*  *  *
 * Vivaporius
 * None
 * June 18, 2012
 * ~6,020
 * You all know who I am. I am the darkness in the night, the slippery part of the stairs you avoid, that chilly feeling you get when you eat bad oysters. I am, Viva! But on a more serious note, I have a good understanding of the period the game is taking place in, and a considerable knowledge on sources to check should there be any issues with the plausibility of the nations being played by members of the game. You can trust me. Really. You can.


 * Daxus Inferno
 * Almost, Almost 2, Almost 3, Treaty of Amiens, The 1848 Game, Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal, a few others I forget, and I'm an admin of MGM
 * November 25, 2012
 * 3,640+
 * I think I'm honest enough to be quite unbiased and have just about never used mod powers to grant me benefit. I'm a dutiful map maker and I'm good at creative moderator events. I know a fair amount of history and old technology and demography from all around the world so I think I'd be good at ASB hunting. I'm also an experienced MG moderator and I think I reasonably and fairly intervene during player conflict. I think I could bring quite a lot to this game in terms of both flavor and order.

Map
If it was up to me I would like to go with the PMIII style map. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, Hail Marius  23:01, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

I do not have the resources to make a Prinicpia Moderini style map. However, if a person decides to take the inititave and make such a map, I would automatically let that person choose whatever nation they please, and would also recieve honorary modship status. Sat (Talk to me!) 23:42, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

I agree that a PM-style map will greatly elevate the quality of this game. I don't have the time right to now to do the whole thing, but I have made a substantial start (which can be found here). I used the base PM3 map and made updates to the following regions: All other regions (notable, Africa, Asia, Africa, the HRE) still need updating. I'm using the original image Sat posted as well as other maps (including EUIV in 1517) to update the map. Other users who'd like a PM3-style map, please feel free to pick up where I left off. If not, I'll keep working on it later, but a collaboration would be much more preferable. 19:54, February 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * Iberian Peninsula
 * France
 * British Isles
 * Eastern Mediterranean
 * Persia
 * Japan

Thank you Rex. You'll be rewarded finely for this work. Sat (Talk to me!) 21:48, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

I updated Central Asia, India and Southeast Asia - although I'm a little shaky on some of the india stuff. . Shikata ga nai! 17:31, February 5, 2016 (UTC)

Also, here's a (mostly) labelled map of Asia. Shikata ga nai! 16:13, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

Sign-Ups
Now, I am offically allowing sign ups to be opened at 5:00 (EST). Here's how the sign-ups system will work.

If a user wants your nation and is more experience than you, you may be removed and replaced with that player. The entire system will be based off of edits. If you disagree that you should be removed, come to me and I'll decide. I can also remove you from a nation slot that I feel you aren't capable of. Sat (Talk to me!) 02:55, February 3, 2016 (UTC)

Dark Blue Country
What is the dark blue country in Northern France on the map? PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Are you referring to Brittany? It is in a PU with France, as far as I recall from when I updated the map. 23:38, February 3, 2016 (UTC)

San Marino
There's a country called San Marino existent during this time (and today as well) that isn't in this Map Game yet. Was this left out deliberately? —  The  Tim   Man  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 13:30, February 6, 2016 (UTC)


 * No, it wasn't left out deliberatley. The signs ups for the Holy Roman Empire and Italy are a little messed up at the moment, and most likely will be fixed soon. Sat (Talk to me!) 14:25, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

Are there any big feudal states in the HRE or Italy that i could sign up as, such as Bavaria or Pommerania? Wrto12 (talk) 13:32, February 6, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, there are. You just listed them. Like I said above, the sign ups are a bit of a mess, and will be fixed soon. Sat (Talk to me!) 14:25, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

Do NOT let history repeat itseself
I personally think that these are a few things that we can do to prevent the mistakes of the PM series.
 * Have a vasalization algorithm. I remember that there were many ASB vasalizations, and people vasalizatized states 2/3 of their size in three turns.
 * No massive attacks on one person. PMII seemed towards the end people would take turns ganging up a people.
 * Colinazation algorithm? In PMII there was ETHOPIAN CANADA.
 * Have a OTL alliances list. In the beginning of PMIII Poland Lituanina attacked Moscow, and because Ms was best friends with the Moscow player Edboy, he made all of Germany attack PL. I don't think that Moscow and Germany were OTl allies.
 * Limit number of alliances, there was a time where Feud was allied with everyone. Nuff said.
 * Make it about FUN, and remember this rule from I can't remember which map game series. "Not everyone can have a Liberial powerful nation". Have fun making your nation like OTL Monaco, or many other cool unpowerful nations.

Calm your titties Oct. You make it sound like the Ethiopian Canada was implausible. I had the ships, technology, and capability to colonize it. Mind you, let's not be selective here. There was a Chinese Alaska, German Armenia, Japanese West Africa, and Indian Argentina. They all had the ability to colonize and they did it. So you're really shooting yourself in the foot here when is selectively pick points to rationalize your argument, especially when your argument has no real leg to stand on. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 06:48, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Please not this again. Crim de la Crème 09:15, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Poland-Lithuaina stronk! KingSparta300 (talk) 23:54, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Hey, I'm all for letting the history be history. I'm just not pleased with Oct dredging this nonsense up again is all. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:51, February 8, 2016 (UTC)

Why oh why did we have to bring this mess up again? Cour *talk* 21:06, February 8, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Viva. I do not like these rules as they limit the game's possibilities and restricts them to a similar path as OTL. Just cause European powers colonised the Americas doesn't mean they're the only ones that have the capabilities to do so. ~<font color="Red">There was a candy,  and it said,  "Bruh, I'm coming for you, bruh. Oi, g'day mate you wanna mate?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Country in the Philippine archipelago
That's the Kingdom of Tondo right? ~Candy

At this point, the Phillipines is highly disorganized and made up of numerous small, competing polities (and, technically, not even yet called the Phillipines). Its therefore coloured dark grey, representing disorganized territory. Much of it is under heavy Bruneian influence; Tondo is effectively a Bruneian puppet state in the early 1500s. Tondo, Maynila and Namayan are the largest of these small states at this point. Shikata ga nai! 13:11, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Contrary to your statement, the Kingdom of Tondo actually comprised that whole grey region. And if the grey region did represent disorganised territory then why not Mindanao, parts of Visayas, and North and Central Luzon coloured grey as well? All of those regions had some kind of tribal/indianised/sinicised/islamicised political entity. (picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Philippines_(pre_1521).jpg) ~<font color="Red">There was a candy,  and it said,  "Bruh, I'm coming for you, bruh. Oi, g'day mate you wanna mate?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

That's patently false. That map is anachronistic and shows states that definitely didn't exist in 1517; i wouldn't rely on it. At some point in the early 1500s (probably pre-1517), Brunei attacked, defeated and subjugated Tondo, founded the in the area, and placed it under the control of Malay puppet rajahs. At this point, Manila proper and the immediate region around it is ruled by these rajahs (although the old Tondo dynasty possesses some symbolic power) and effectively a Bruneian satellite. The old dynasty retained some power and competed with Maynila for trade and regional dominance. A third, less Islamicized polity,, also held power in the region. Thus, there were three rulers in conflict by the Spaniards after their conquest of the region in 1571; one for each kingdom. All these polities are too small to wield power outside tiny heartlands, and their influence overlaps; therefore, the area is dark gray, since no centralized government holds power. Shikata ga nai! 17:00, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Map Color
If you want a different color for your nation or you don't have a color, post the color hex code you want below and I'll make stuff happen. Crim de la Crème 17:05, February 9, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Crim. I'm playing the Teutonic Knights and I'd like the color #666968, if you'd be so kind. -- Constantinus Byzantinus Maximus Talk At Me 18:52, February 9, 2016 (UTC)

Would definitely like this one 235802. Thanks in Advance


 * 1) DAA520 For Mutsu please, thanks SpunkyMora (talk) 05:17, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

I would like #63462D for Benin. Don't know if it would be too dark. Thanks anyway. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:22, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

2f00ff for the Lowlands. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here)

I'd like #EED448 for Württemberg please. —  The  Tim   Man  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 04:19, February 26, 2016 (UTC)


 * 1) ff8da1 for Duchy of Milan Please -Tomw1864

(~º•º)~ #FFBAD2 (or Cotton Pink) for Joseon, please~! <font color="Red">There was a candy,  and it said,  "Bruh, I'm coming for you, bruh. Oi, g'day mate you wanna mate?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ~(º•º~)

Could you change the color of Scotland to #F7E017 please? Thanks. Nicktc 23:28, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Can you make the color of Ethiopia be #fe9a3d, please? Thanks! :) DCUnited13

If possible could you make Kabul #DF0101 ? Thank you very much! Simmy1993 (talk) 00:06, February 13, 2016 (UTC)

Alrighty! Posting map at midnight, EST. Anyone else have a preference on map color? Feel free to speak up! Crim de la Crème 20:46, February 13, 2016 (UTC)

Give me a nice, Papal yellow for... *Awaiting intensifies* The Papal States. Sat (Talk to me!)

I'm really late on this, but I don't have a color for Rhodes. If it's still possible for the next map, #E83030. Zamarak500 (talk) 20:24, February 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) b3b3ff for Genoa please - KawaiiKame

I want this color #54ff9f for Maldives --<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Jbwncster   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">(Talk)   22:48, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

1517 World Map
Hey, just sharing this here in case it might be helpful for the playthrough! Its a 1517 map from the game Europa Universalis IV. Might help people visualise which nations truly owned what. :)

Simmy1993 (talk) 17:07, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

e Europa Universalis IV, the map isn't really detailed enough and misses a lot of stuff in Asia and the Holy Roman Empire. Also tribes in the Americas weren't states like that. Nlenhardt (talk) 20:21, February 12, 2016 (UTC)

I was only suggesting it as an option, perhaps to help people get their heads around some of the trickery borders, the map also comes with a black template showing 'de jure' areas. Was just a thought, sorry if I came off presumptive.

There are versions of the game that allow the filling out of the wastelands which I could grab, as I said I added it more for people to use to keep track of their own realms and other peoples, rather than trying to usurp the actual map.

Simmy1993 (talk) 20:24, February 12, 2016 (UTC)

Large Labeled map
As many of you know, I have a lot of SVG maps at my disposal, but it's very difficult to find a format that is easy to share on the wiki. So after a few frustrating hours last night, I was finally able to export a World map of 1517 as a PNG and uploaded it to Imgur (it's too big for the wiki):

World Map 1517

From this map, I'm going to make some alterations to the signups list with Sat's permission I would like to thank Feud for making Borealia possible  17:47, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Technology Table
I see that the Technology Table (further up on this page) is inspired by EUIV, but we still need a legend or key. What exactly are the ideas to choose from? Tiers? Focusus? Etc... Cookiedamage (talk) 02:21, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Ignore above, I have been directed to the Tech explanations, thanks to Scar. Cookiedamage (talk) 02:42, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Request
Can i change my country from Bavaria to Terra Mariana, since i didn't know which countries where available, due to the mess in the sign ups???? Wrto12 (talk) 14:58, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks http://prntscr.com/a35quf Wrto12 (talk) 16:57, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

1500 World Populations
Just leaving this link here, its a chart of world population distribution in 1500. Might help some work out their populations.

http://www.worldmapper.org/posters/worldmapper_map8_ver5.pdf

Simmy1993 (talk) 21:36, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Papal Vassalation of Siena
Total: 75+-42 = 33 Years.
 * Location - Border's Nation = -10
 * Economy - Economic Development = -15
 * Modifiers
 * Cultural Affinity = -3
 * Alliance = -5
 * Technology Group
 * Target - Renisannce Europe = +5
 * Player - Renisannce Europe = +5
 * Chance
 * 286/7 = 40.387
 * 40.387*π = 128.291428571
 * Nation Age - Newborn nation = -10 (Helped get leader on throne)
 * Population - 5x - 10x larger in population = -10

Discussion
I think the vassalation algo needs a bit of work. 100 seems a bit too high. I say bring it down to 75. Sat (Talk to me!) 07:32, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the base of 75; additionaly, since you only border Siena, you only get -10 (not -15). Taken care of for you. 17:34, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. Sat (Talk to me!) 19:54, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Dropped Nations
I'm considering joining, and had a question. Are the rules about nation inactivity the same as PM? 5 turns without activity and another player can claim the nation? Cour *talk* 17:39, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Algorithm
The current algorithm is fundamentally flawed, placing far too much weight on some categories and completely ignoring others. Here's an example. In OTL, the Ottomans easily crushed the Mamluks with a combination of much superior technology and 3:1 troop numbers. However, with this algo, the Mamuluks successfully drive off the Ottomans. This is in contrast to my algorithm that I used for AvA: Resurrection, which successfully simulated three conflicts in three different eras: the Ottoman-Mamluk War, Napoleon's invasion of Russia, and the Nazi invasion of France.

Ottomans

 * Location: Near = +20
 * Motive: Political hegemony = +7
 * Support: Medium cavalry support = +10
 * Troops: 150,000 = +15
 * Technology: +5%
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 57 + 5% = 59.85

Mamluks

 * Location: At = +25
 * Motive: Wipe out nation = +10
 * Defensive: Heavy fortification = +20
 * Support: Medium cavalry = +10
 * Troops: 50,000 = +5
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 75

Thus, I propose that we adopt a new, more comprehensive algorithm instead of the one we have currently.

PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

I support Pita's algo. When it comes down to it, the algo is all about simulating realistic, real-life conflits. His algo can do that successfully. Cour *talk* 17:57, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

I still have yet to see how they were all that successful. In general the algorithm needs to be on a battle by battle to incur the real depth of it. I refuse to see blanket wars where a single algo decides the fate of an entire empire. Thats ridiculous. In general we can all discuss what needs to be changed but developmental scores that fall off cause someone left for a weekend are another issue i have. Im open to change, but i refuse to budge on battles, and development scores. They cause too many problems and those kinds of algos cause all sorts of problems -Feud

Angan vassalization of Zia
Result: 75-78= -3
 * Next to the nation: -10
 * Part of similar cultures: -5
 * Cultural affinity: -3
 * Recent political marriage: -10
 * Tribe: -10 (Target)
 * Tribe: -10 (Player)
 * Chance: (3804/1*8*2*7)*pi=106.701950484 = 0
 * Newborn nation: -10 (Player)
 * Maturing nation: 0(Target)
 * Population: -20

Which means 5, I'm guessing.

Hungarian War of Revenge, on Poland-Lithuania

 * Aggressor: Hungary
 * Defender: Poland-Lithuania
 * Reason: Taking historic lands, revenge for a betrayed alliance
 * Troops: 55,000 Hungarians
 * Year began: 1522

Timurid invasion of the Delhi Sultanate

 * Aggressor: Timurid Kabulistan
 * Defender: Delhi Sultanate
 * Reason: Imposing religious freedom for all opressed faiths within the sultanate whilst ulteriorly aiming to solidify the Mughal Empire.T
 * Troops: 19,500 Timurid Soldiers (incl. firearms), 6,000 Bikaner Liberation Loyalists, 15 Bronze Ottoman Cannons, 4 siege engines
 * Year Began: 1524

Ottoman Invasion of Adal

 * Aggressor: Ottoman Empire
 * Defender: Adal
 * Reason: Economic domination of the Red Sea
 * Troops: 30,000 men, 46 ships
 * Year Began: 1524

Omani Invasion of Mogadishu

 * Aggressor: Oman Sultanate
 * Defender: Mogadishu
 * Reason: Securing a stronger economic and military foothold in East Africa
 * Year Began: 1524

Fourth Ottoman-Venetian War

 * Aggressor: Ottoman Empire
 * Defender: Venice
 * Reason: Gain naval domination over the eastern Mediterranean
 * Troops: 248 ships, 20,000 soldiers
 * Year began: 1526

Portuguese invasion of the Balearics

 * Aggressor: Portuguese Empire
 * Defender: Spain
 * Reason: To assist allies and weaken Spanish naval power.
 * Troops: 200 ships, 45,000 soldiers
 * Year began: 1526

Ottoman-Hungarian War

 * Aggressor: Ottoman Empire, Wallachia (vassal), Moldavia? (vassal)
 * Defender: Hungary
 * Reason: To finally end the long-standing rivalry with Hungary over Romania
 * Troops: 80,000 Ottoman soldiers, 12,000 Wallachian soldiers, 12 ships
 * Year began: 1366 (restarted in 1529)

War of Bavarian Liberation

 * Aggressors: Württemberg and the League of Erfurt
 * Defender: Bavaria (Austrian occupation), Austria, Florence, Poland-Lithuania
 * Reason: To liberate Bavaria from Austrian and Catholic control; to oust Poland-Lithuania from German affairs (League please confirm secondary reason)
 * Troops: 6,000 Württemberger soldiers, ? League soldiers, ? Austrian soldiers, 9 Württemberger ships, 2 or 3 Bavarian ships, ? Austrian ships
 * Year began: 1533

Aceh Invasion of Pagaruyung

 * Aggressor: Aceh
 * Defender: Pagaruyung
 * Reason: To expand the Sultanate of Aceh on its quest for dominion over all of Sumatra.
 * Troops: 2,000 Acehnese soldiers, ? Pagaruyungan soldiers
 * Year began: 1538

Tier Query
Hey guys, the tier system looks great! I'm just curious why Bukhara is in a higher tier than Timurid Kabulistan, especially militarily as Kabul was one of the few powers in the region outside the Ottomans and Persians to use firearms and cannon. Not being that person who is trying to raise their own nation, but the Timurids weren't so low on the military scale. They did after all conquer most of Northern India within the next decade, while Bukhara has just gone through a ruler change in 1510 after a crushing defeat and was still recovering. I really only bring it up because i'm in the same tier as Sistan which was essentially tribal land owners who paid homage to Persia.

Thanks for listenin'!

Simmy1993 (talk) 00:48, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

How does a nation advance a tier? KawaiiKame (talk) 00:50, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

To be clear, I'm not asking for my nation to be improved, I'm simply pointing out that either I'm in the same category with Bukhara and Sistan in my current tier, or I'm in Bukhara's tier. I'm not disputing the system, or asking how to get better, simply making a case that the Timurids were not a remote, disorganized power like Sistan. Simmy1993 (talk)

Why are Kashgar and Turfan in the second tier? For all their sometime wealth and power as former parts of the Chagatai Khanate, by this point they're poor, underpopulated oasis kingdoms. More importantly, a lot of Asian (especially Indian and Southeast Asian) states seem to have been shoved into the bottom tier with tribal states. Maybe an additional tier to separate the two groups would be beneficial?Shikata ga nai! 01:44, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with having another tier to seperate Southeast Asian and tribal states because Southeast Asian states are more advanced than tribal states. KawaiiKame (talk) 01:59, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

@Simmy I'm not particularly well-versed on that area in this time period, so I'll take your word for it and bump the Timurids up a spot.

@Kawaii you just make a request and give evidence for why you think you should move up.

@Kras what do you think we should do with Kashgar and Turfan?

PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)
 * My recommendation would be to move them to the tier below. Shikata ga nai! 03:22, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

My country (Moldavia) was not listed for some reason. –Alexander 03:11, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion
Obviously I don't topple Persia, but does this mean I get Mesoptamia or not? And does the algorithm account for: the Safavid earlier defeat at the Battle of Chaldarin, the concurrent war against Bukhara, and the fact that AH doesn't have a definite strategyI would like to thank Feud for making Borealia possible  04:57, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Explanation of the algorithm:
In order to win a war, one side must build up a cumulative score differential of +30. What that means is that over the years, a nation must win by enough points to add up to 30 to force the other side to surrender. This can take 1 year or 20 years - just however long is needed to build up that score differential. More nations can jump in on either side each year, meaning you might win one year and lose the next.

The algorithm itself can be found here: Rules (Ninety-Five Theses Map Game)

PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

Genoese Vassalation of Milan
*Location - Border's Nation = -10 <p style="font-size:16px;line-height:26px;">Total: 75+-47 = 28 Years.
 * Economy - Economic Development = -15
 * Motive: -5 (Part of Similar cultures)= -5
 * Modifiers
 * Cultural Affinity = -3
 * Alliance = -5
 * -8
 * Technology Group
 * Target - Renisannce Europe = +5
 * Player - Renisannce Europe = -5
 * Total: 0
 * Chance
 * 376/2*3*5*9 = 376/270 = 1.39259259259
 * 1.39259259259*π = 4.37495865832
 * -7
 * Nation Age - Maturing nation (Dutchy of Milan was restablished in 1450 after the Ambrosion Republic fell) = 0
 * Population - Less than 5 times more popolous then Genoa larger in population = -2 (I think)

Discussion
I am pretty sure Milan has more population than Genoa. Person67 (talk) 10:29, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Bruv Milan is way more powerful than you... PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

So basically according to the rules Genoa can't vassal Milan because Milan has a greater population right? Tomw1864 (talk) 20:06, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

I'd honestly just retcon this. Crim de la Crème 20:16, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Reconned. Sat (Talk to me!) 12:07, February 17, 2016 (UTC) Thank you, However feelings toward Genoa in Milan are still poor. Tomw1864 (talk) 12:46, February 17, 2016 (UTC)

Well, seeing as how this technically never happened due to retcon, you'll need a different reason to not like Genoa, but I mean beyond that, that's totally up to you. Crim de la Crème 08:23, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

DO NOT DELETE MY TURN
F**k you admins! You deleted my turn that is very important during the game in 1518!!!! PLEASE DO NOT DELETE MY TURN!!!!

Yeah, I'm not sure why it was deleted (will look into it when I get home) but that kind of behavior's not going to fly. Clear? Crim de la Crème 17:51, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Clear.

A word about vassalization
Hey, guys, something I noticed: you guys are trying to vassalize each other, which is great. You're thinking with your heads and I love the aggressive diplomacy. But if someone doesn't want to be vassalized, it doesn't make much sense for it to continue. That algo is meant for NPC states and, if applicable, willing PC states. Sorry for the confusion.

Crim de la Crème

My nation of Terra Mariana has changed its name to Ostland, after the crowning of my King by the Pope, therefore please do not re-edit it in the Technology Table, plus i have changed my focus to dimplomatic and secondary administrative and my ideas to Expansion. Wrto12 (talk) 19:22, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Changed it again. Wrto12 (talk) 14:15, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Ming Invasion of Tumed and Chachar Lands
I've invaded Manchuria and attacked the Tumeds and Chachars.

Love you, Everyone&#39;s favorite Girl, Kaori! (talk) 21:43, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

Cherokee Invasion of Creek
I've sent a warrior band of 500 to attack creek tribes in north eastern alabama. Nlenhardt (talk) 06:29, February 17, 2016 (UTC)

Milan vassalisation of Margravate of Mantua
<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">24/1*1*3*7 = 1.14285714286                                                                                                                           1.14285714286 * 3.14 = 3.58857142858                                                                                                        Chance = -8
 * Next to the nation: -10
 * Economic development in the last 15 years: -15
 * Part of similar cultures - -5
 * Has lost a war in the past 10 years- +3
 * Cultural affinity- -3
 * Target -Presumed Tier 5 = +5
 * Player - Tier 5  = -5


 * Mature nation(75–200 years) = +5
 * -20 if your nation is more than ten times more populous than the target nation

Result
<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">75 - 53 = 22 years =  1520 to 1542. However The Duke's engagement to Margherita Gonzaga of Mantua has caused the estimate to fall by 17 years to 1525.

Venice-Hungary War

 * Venetian side
 * Venice
 * France
 * Florence
 * Siena
 * Milan
 * Hungarian side
 * Hungary
 * Ferrara
 * Genoa
 * Poland-Lithuania  (Nah)

Irrawaddy War
So I figured I'd just do this algo, but mods, feel free to edit it as you see necessary.

Tibet

 * Location: +16
 * Tactical advantage: Surprise attack: +15
 * Strength: 5.2 + 16 (greater population) + 1.75 (financial aid from Bengal) + 18 (greater industry, although neither has much tbh)
 * Tech: 3
 * Motive: religious + 12
 * Morale: 0
 * Industry: +1
 * Troop Numbers: +20
 * Chance: 3
 * Score: 107.95

Ava

 * Location: +20
 * Tactical advantage: 12
 * Strength: 2.6
 * Tech: 3
 * Motive: 20
 * Morale: 0
 * Industry: +1
 * Troop Numbers: +11
 * Chance: 4
 * Score: 74.6

Result
Score differential: about 32, which is enough to topple Ava I think, according to new algo rules.

Saxon Vassalizations
Brunswick-Göttingen 75-78 = -2
 * Location: -10 (Next to Target)
 * Economy: -15
 * Motive: -5 (Similar Culture)
 * Modifiers: -18 (Cultural Affinity, Alliance, Recent Marriage)
 * Technology: -4 (15-11)
 * Chance: 19,792*(1+3+8)*3.14 = 745762.56 = -6
 * Nation Age: 0 (Mature Nation and Young Nation)
 * Population: -20

Vassalized in 5 Years (1519-1523)

01:41, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

Nürnberg 75-64 = 11
 * Location: -10 (Next to Target)
 * Economy: -15
 * Motive: -5 (Similar Culture)
 * Modifiers: -11 (Cultural Affinity, Alliance, Recent Marriage, Recent Vassalization, 1 Vassal)
 * Technology: -4 (15-11)
 * Chance: 19,906*(1+1+4)*3.14 = 375208.194 = -9
 * Nation Age: 5 (Mature Nation and Maturing Nation)
 * Population: -20

Vassalized in 11 Years (1523-1534)

22:19, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Wiki Crash
I was about to post my 1520 turn but then Wiki crashed, is it ok if we extend the turn for another hour? KawaiiKame (talk) 00:08, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

The 1520 turn has been extended to 01:00 UTC to accomodate for wiki troubles. During this period, you can post in either/both 1520 and 1521. Happy posting! 00:31, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

Can some do a algo for me
I am laying sleigh to the cities of Isfaha (30,000) Merv (10,000) and Nishabur (10,000) -Bozi

Epic Leader Proposal
(This is one i've been waiting for all game :-) )
 * Name: Suleiman the Magnificent
 * Born: 1494
 * Takes command: 1521 (age 27)

Go ahead m8. PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

I quit
Yeah, I just quit for the following reasons: Bloody Feud. I get the feeling he is working against me.... Wrto. Seriously, SCREW YOU! I was trying to help Sweden, and Wrto just outright decides to attack me, even though I was helping his ally! For these reasons, and others, I quit. KingSparta300 (talk) 21:08, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

Ok Bye Bye. #PraiseRoosevelt. 23:11, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

Sweden actually nullified your alliance, after my request. Wrto12 (talk) 23:14, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

Nevermind. If Nate doesn't help me, I wil quit though. KingSparta300 (talk) 23:53, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN SOMEONE JUST BAN SPAR FROM THE GAME. is2g he pulle this shit on SSS5 too. He always throws a fit(like a little baby) when things don't go his way. We don't care if you quit, we don't care why you quit. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here) 13:50, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

A new name, but he's still up to his old tricks. Let's not let this happen again, Spar. Crim de la Crème 14:16, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

Location

 * Separated by one small nation: +5

Economy

 * Economic development in the last 15 years: -15

Motive

 * Part of similar cultures: -5

Modifiers

 * Has lost a war in the past 10 years- +3
 * Currently at war (either side)- +20
 * Cultural affinity- -3
 * Dynastic ties- -7
 * Recent political marriage- -10

Technology Group

 * Target -Presumed Tier 5 = +5
 * Player - Tier 5  = -5

Chance
<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">

Nation Age

 * Newborn nation (less than 5 years since gov change) = -10

Population

 * -2 if your nation is less than five times more populous than the target nation

Result
<p style="font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">????

1521 NPC Responces Request
1522 has started and I was just wondering if 1521 NPC responces are going ahead? I'm sure it was just overlooked, just waiting to post. :)

01:45, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Am I death or not?
Well, the thing is, the Ottoman attacked me last turn. But there is no mentions anywhere that anything happened. So what happened with the war? Just so I know if my turn is valid or not, thanks. Zamarak500 (talk) 03:17, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

I'm very sorry the mods are being very lazy about the whole thing. I've been told that I won by a large margin, but for whatever reason the algo has not been posted yet. However, what was suggested to me is that you can keep going until the algo is posted, and if you are death, then stuff will just get retconned. I would like to thank Feud for making Borealia possible  06:36, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Of course, you are welcome to live within the benevolent Ottoman Empire, but I guess you would rather hide out in a castle in Stuttgart :PI would like to thank Feud for making Borealia possible  06:36, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I do officially quit. Putting up Wrto is just too much for me. Nate, why won't you help me? KingSparta300 (talk) 12:22, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

I apologize for the confusion, yes, you are dead. PitaKang- (Talk to me | Kill count: 8)

'''Alright. As long as it is clear with everyone. Can I at least keep the part where I go hide in Wüttemberg. ? Just so its clear what happen to me?'''

'''PS: Dead in 1522? Wasn't able to survive most than OTL...'''

Yes, you are become death, destroyer of worlds <font color="Navy">Hail Sean!  (Get a free potato here) 13:52, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Calling out BS
Wrto made a post saying he recruited 20,000 men from occupied Lithuania. KingSparta300 (talk) 01:27, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

I erased it, i raised 5000 men only Wrto12 (talk) 17:56, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

Glad that was fixed. KingSparta300 (talk) 17:59, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

Switching nations.
I just wanted to ask if I could switch from Sweden to Demnark and then control the whole Kalmar Union? Redbaran45 (talk) 03:36, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Changing Technology and Industry Tier for Korea?
I still do not get how Korea got Tier 3, when at this time Korea was experiencing a period of rapid technology advancement. Also, I've been developing my economy (following China's footsteps) for 8 turns, so when would the Industry tier will be moved upwards (assuming I'll complete modernisation in two or three decades).

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO DESTROY ME????
SERIOUSLY ASSHOLES????REALLY SPARTA? YOU STUPID NOOB YOU CAN'T CANCEL A DEAL THAT YOU SIGNED/AGREED, IF IT DOESN'T SUITS YOU RIGHT NOW, ALSO THE FUCKING PLAGUE, I TOLD YOU I SEND UNDERCOVER AGENTS TO INFECT THE VILLAGES TOO, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE COULD BE A REBELLION BUT NOT IMMIDIETELY, YOU WANT TO DESTROY ME THATS UNPLAUSABLE AS HELL, IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN SOME TIME UNTIL THEY DISCOVER ME... Wrto12 (talk) 13:34, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Dude. You just dumped bodies in wells. Not hard for people to look into the well and see what was down there. Also, I can cut a deal if I want to. I never had to agree to it. I can take Brandenburg. I just want to get some allies. KingSparta300 (talk) 15:18, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Not a mod, but just saying a coupla things: Mods correct me on any of this if necessary.
 * Wrto, even super-sneaky spies can't exactly super-sneakily fill wells with infected people without the locals catching on. Furthermore, it hardly takes more than a year for people to respond to the government killing them. So don't complain, it was kinda a stupid idea.
 * And Spar, you can't cancel that deal a whole turn after you agreed it. Just no. If you want that land back, invasion is the only way.

FP ( Now 10% edgier!!! ) 15:24, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Um, technically, I can back out the deal, as it seems implausible for me to accept it in the first place. I just went to war with Ostland as it is, why would I sell them land? KingSparta300 (talk) 15:28, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

You remember very well, you did it so i wouldn't attack you and i would keep Brandenburg from attacking you. Also that happend last turn, the rebellion happened this turn, so you can not do that. Wrto12 (talk) 15:37, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but why did you actually say that I was going to be attacked unless I gave you this land? No. KingSparta300 (talk) 15:42, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Please for the love of god ban both of these guys from the game. Spar, you already agreed to a deal, deal with it(pun intended). And ffs mods please do something. <font color="Navy">Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here) 18:40, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

That sort of crap is not going to fly. I'll give you a day to think about it. Crim de la Crème 05:49, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

??????
Are you serious?Why an algorithm about the war that Poland decleared me hasn't been done and instead you disregard our turns Ostland's, Poland's, Bavaria's, Bohemia's , Württemberg's, Brandenburg's and even Russia's turns, that all acknowledge and or participate in the war, seriously are you for real or you just joking, ignoring this war completely, you haven't even mentioned the war in the events, while the war has been going on for two years now.

Wrto12 (talk) 14:49, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

STOP DELETING POSTS
I had to re-add my 1526 because someone deleted my post <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Jbwncster   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">(Talk)   15:51, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

Technology Table
Maldives isn't listed on the table <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Jbwncster   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">(Talk)   16:04, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

May I play this?-Lieutenant113 (talk) 03:15, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

Württemberger vassalisation of Tyrol

 * Location: -10 (Neighbours)
 * Motive: -3 (Economic)
 * Modifiers: 20 (WB at war) -3 (Cultural affinity) = 17
 * Technological groups

On, what is the name of "Tyrol?" Yours, Rex 23:56, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * WB: Western Europe = +5
 * Tyrol: Western Europe = +5
 * Chance: 675/7=96.4 96.4*π=302.85
 * Nation age: WB - Maturing +0; Tyrol - Ancient +10
 * Population: -2 (<5x more populous)
 * Total: 27 years — 1528 - 1555

Crim - 10/10 - IGN 20:42, February 27, 2016 (UTC)

Plague
How many turns is it going to last? <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Jbwncster   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">(Talk)   15:35, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

Bavarian Vassalization of Upper Palatinate

 * Location: -10 (Neighbours)
 * Motive: -7 (Broken from Bavaria in 1329)
 * Modifiers: 20 (Bavaria at war) -3 (Cultural affinity) -7 (Same family, different branches, unless that doesn't count) = 10 (or 17)
 * Technological groups

On this map, what is the name of "Upper Palatinate?" 23:56, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bavaria: Western Europe = +22
 * UP: Western Europe = +22
 * Chance: 12:57 PM CST (at time of writing), 412 edits, 412/14=29.428*π=92.45, -5
 * Nation age: Bavaria - Ancient (at least) +10 (Wittelsbachs came to power in 1100s, but nation existed from 500s); UP - Old +5 (See above); Total = +15 (wut)
 * Population: -10 (presumably 5-10x more populous)
 * Total: 75 - 7 = 68 years — 1527 - 1595 (unless I did something horribly wrong)

That would be   Nürnburg, which is currently being vassalized by Saxony. (If you didn't see the original post, it was "whatever that state between Bavaria and Saxony is") My mistake. <font color = "#FFB6C1">The Empire shall rise, <font color = "#ED1C24">and all will kneel at our...  <font color = "#ED1C24">foot... stubs...  15:20, February 27, 2016(UTC)

Austria?
Hi. My country is Austria and Wrto is currently posting and playing as Austria. I am shocked this has been allowed on a mods watch and frankly I want my country back as I was just going to put my go. Regards

TheGreatHistorian500 (talk) 22:26, February 27, 2016 (UTC)

Since you played only 4 turns out of 13 since the game started i asked the mods if i could take this country, due to you being inactive most of the turns and they answered me possitively, see at sign up in Austria. http://prnt.sc/a8pol2 http://prnt.sc/a8pqzn http://prnt.sc/a8r6ng

Wrto12 (talk) 10:41, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

I apologize for my inactivity. I am asking politely may I have my country back? There are many many countries that still haven't been filled up. Currently I have an entire turn currently on copy and paste. Please Wrto12 can we negotiate? TheGreatHistorian500 (talk) 13:13, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

I am appalled. Wrto is helping the Ottoman empire. This is very implasuible. Sure, Hungary and Austria might not get along, but even so, Austria would be more concerned over the Ottomans then the Magyrs. KingSparta300 (talk) 13:19, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

I agree. While players to an extent may pick and choose their allies and enemies, it must still be historically plausible and in line with the politics of the time — Austria certainly would not have even thought of signing a non-aggression pact with the Turks, let alone have her troops march alongside them against a fellow Christian country. It is imperative for the sake of plausibility that a player pay attention to the historical realities of the period. —  The  Tim   Man  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 13:33, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Well everyone i asked said this wasn't implausable... like Nathan, Sky, Person and many others, everyone can't be wrong, also Sparta you were counting on Ottoman help to beat Feud (Russia), then Nathan turned you down, plus you hate me, you are not the right person to judge me. And Tim Man, Hungary is gonna fall completely to the Ottoman Empire, plus the did declear war against other Christian countries, i am not allied with them, every christian's opinion for Austria may decrease, but if i dont intervene the whole of Hungary is gonna fall to the Ottomans, so i am practically doing that to protect Christian population... Wrto12 (talk) 14:25, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

However i have no problem with changing my nation if mods say otherwise/ change their mind, its just that you are too inactive to have a nation so important like Austria and you are actually letting your country collapse... Wrto12 (talk) 11:00, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Ok. But the only reason I've been inactive because I am busy and I still have a massive turn I want to put on. So I still want my country back but If you are going to continue as Austria the country will collapse. The Upheaval is still continuing and I made it clear Evangliicans were being prosecuted by the Inquisitors it can't just suddenly happen thatFerdinand changes his mind about everything. Oh and btw could a mod plz read this so this dispute is settled quickly. P.S How am I letting my country collapse? Regards 14:53, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

If you were active in the map game you would have seen that the Holy Roman Emperor forced every catholic state to stop persecution of Evangelics and allow anyone to freely practice his religion, may that be catholicism or Evangelism. Also many revolts occured all around Austria. Ferdinard I was forced to do this especially after losing Burgundy, in order to keep his nation stable, to reduce tensions and not go to war against 2/3 of the HRE which are Evangelical and would attack him if he continued persecuting everyone, so its not a matter of changing his mind, its a matter of choise and sanity, in this case he didn't have any choise, it was either that or been attacked by every Evangelical or loyal to the HRE member Saxony, Bavaria, Bohemia, Pomerania, Brandenburg, Swiss Confederacy, Burgundy, Netherlands... Wrto12 (talk) 17:16, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

1531
When is the turn coming out?

Conditional Resignation
I think I speak for everyone in the game when I say that the mods here are either exceedingly lazy, or severly lacking in communication. I can tolerate mods not policing plausibility, or missing out on meaningful, inclusive, or unbiased mod events, and I can even understand not updating the map or reference pages properly. However, when algorithms are completely ignored, and turns take well over twelve hours to come in, the game is essentially impossible to play. For me at least, it makes no sense to continue in an enviroment where fundemental aspects of the game are completely lost. This is especially a problem if Pita is actually resigning, because he is the only person who CAN do algorithms. Without him, and no one to replace his job, the game is a lost cause.

Therefore, I will not be posting until these matters are resolved. I would like to thank Feud for making Borealia possible  19:18, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Request
Ok, so with a multitude of problems I'm seeing in Europe, and with the Ayutthaya player not having posted since 1519, I'm asking permission to switch from Brunswick-Lüneburg to Ayutthaya.

I am that guy (talk) 00:40, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

Demak Sultanate war against Pajajaran
<span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-weight:400;white-space:pre-wrap;">This algo is actually not kosher. Your grand total should not be multiplied by 1.5/1, that is only if there are multiple fronts (where it would be 1.5/x, x>1). I have fixed the algo, and you have be repelled by Pajajaran. 06:56, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

<span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-weight:400;white-space:pre-wrap;">Wouldn't that mean P <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial;font-size:13.3333px;font-weight:400;white-space:pre-wrap;">ajajaran should not have been times<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial;font-size:13.3333px;font-weight:400;white-space:pre-wrap;"> by 1.5 which it is so it is 101.9999 so don't I win. <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial;font-size:13.3333px;font-weight:400;white-space:pre-wrap;"> Thisismacedon (talk) 02:19, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial;font-size:13.3333px;font-weight:400;white-space:pre-wrap;">Went ahead and fixed some grave errors and put the algo into the new formula table, and you ended up losing by a small deal. The main difference between the two was that you can only have one motive and cannot claim all of them to add to your score. And thank you for not cooking the books on chance, like so many other players do. 06:19, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

Several things
Why aren't the territorial expansions for Korea reflected in the map? Also, Pita told me that he was going to change the tiers for Korea, but he hasn't done it yet, when will it be done? ~<font color="Red">There was a candy,  and it said,  "Bruh, I'm coming for you, bruh. Oi, g'day mate you wanna mate?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Mod Stuff
Hey guys, sorry I haven't been active for the past few days, I've been extremely busy with real life + college/financial aid stuff. I'll be coming back for 1532, and I'll try to sort things all out by then. Cheers!

-Pita

Württemberger vassalisation of Basel

 * Location: -10 (neighbour)
 * Economy: -15
 * Motive: -3 (economic) -5 (cultural)
 * Modifiers: -3 (cultural affinity)
 * Chance: 04:55 UTC --> 748/20*π = 11.90
 * Age: +10 (Basel ancient) -5 (Württemberg young)
 * Population: -10 (5 - 10x)
 * Score: -41
 * FINAL: 75 - 41 = 34 years (1531 — 1565)

Owari Tier Request
Owari has grown tremendously since the beginning of the game. The province itself was united, plus it now controls Ise, and also we directly own Mino. We are one of the most populous countries in Japan, able to field a large army and ruled by the powerful Oda Clan. I suggest bumping me up to tier 2 in everything (or at least in military).

Furthermore, when Pita was algo mod, he essentially stated that he would not do algos for tribal countries, including the tiny Japanese wars, and just asked me to be reasonable and to not be able to unite Japan until 1580. Now other players have joined, and mods have turned over. I'm totally fine doing algos, but I'd like to know how it'll work. The issue before was that everyone was the same tier, so it was literally impossible, based on the algo, for anyone to successfully invade anyone else.

Vatonica (talk) 22:58, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

I'm back
I was gone for a bit due to debate and my friend IRL went through a tough time that I needed to deal with. I'll be back within a few days. #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:05, March 2, 2016 (UTC)

Ottoman vassalization of Johore
Location: +15

Economy: -15

Motive: -5

Modifiers: +2 (Moldova) -3 (wars won) -3 (affinity) -5 (alliance)

Technology: -15

Chance:

Age: +5

Population: -20

Result: 75-44 = 31 years

Note: Nathan your original post had to be re-added cause wikia glitched out and removed the whole talk page -Feud

Nogai and I, what's happening?
Just want it to be clear. I lost the battle. But Am I still alive? I think so. Also, the event talkabout peace and reconciliation, while Crimea talk about giving me Nogai as a vassal. I'm really confuse. So just to be 100% sure before doing a post, what is the situation between me and Nogai?Zamarak500 (talk) 01:22, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Nathan misunderstands what happened, if i am looking at this correctly, last turn I absolutely wrecked Nogai as Russia but this turn Nogai recovered and managed to defeat you, Nathans declaration of victory is essentially worthless. -Feud

Ok so I was just defeated, not annihilated. Zamarak500 (talk) 14:05, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Hungary
I see my kingdom was destroyed long ago, well may I pick another nation?-Lieutenant113 (talk) 01:47, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yes

Ayutthayan Wars
Ayutthayan Population Count: 3,000,000 - 30,000 troops

Johor Population Count: 1,500,000 - 15,000 troops

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ayutthayan Population Count: 4,500,000 - 45,000 troops

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Johor Population Count: 1,500,000 - 15,000 troops

1536
Why am I not able to call any allies before the war is finished? I mean I probably will lose but I should be allowed to try and save myself. <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Jbwncster   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">(Talk)   18:40, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

The Maldives are a small set of islands with no consiquence, while that sounds harsh, I encourage you to choose a new nation that is relevant on the world stage, I think you'll find more enjoyment in this. The Maldives would not be able to resist the invasion of any sea-faring power, they simply did not have the arms or technology. Simmy1993 (talk)

Issues with the map for Benin
I would like to address my concerns regarding my ability to expand and my concerns with Songhai's expansion on the map to my west. I noticed that Songhai has been expanding at the same rate as Benin, yet Songhai has twice the additional land as I do. I did a count for the pixels, and it turns out that Songhai has 3,096 px of new land versus 1,696 px for Benin. I provided at clear map for Benin's for Feud to copy onto his map for the game, all of my expansions measured pixel by pixel, yet Feud stated that he won't add it for reasons linked to his computer (so he says). I had very clear claims I wished to enforced in the "Map Issues" section, but they are being ignored. I also wish to bring up a glaring issue regarding Songhai's expansion.

Songhai is a desert state with about three million people tops. However, it managed to blow through the jungles of densely-populated West Africa with ease, all the while I've been told my jungle-based nation is having difficulties expanding into its native terrain, and have been penalized for this. My expansion is into the sparsely-populated lands to my east, rather than to the densely-populated regions to the west. Feud said I was expanding too fast, yet had no issue allowing Songhai to do same at twice the rate, and in a totally different region the Songhai aren't native too. Mind you, Feud is the one making the map changes, and he is the one declaring what is "too much", so he knew this was the case with Songhai. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:50, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Ok regardless with what the map says. I have expanded at the same rate as Benin. It would also make sense for me to expand faster as I have not recently changed my religion plus have large gold mines to help fund my expansion as well as the fact that I haven't done coastal expansion which would presumably take more time though I am not claiming to have expanded faster. Songhai is not a desert nation as the bulk of it is based around the niger river and even still it is in the Sahel which is a grassland region. I fail to see the differences between the Sahel regions Songhai is based in and the savana regions I have gone into. Where I have expanded into is not jungle but the Guinean forest- savana and west sudinian- savana which has very few jungles which I can avoid but is mainly forest and savana. It's not my place to comment on this whole jungle thing so I won't. Person67 (talk) 10:11, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

It will be added within reason when i bring it up to other mods. Also viva do not demonize me when MULTIPLE people said it was happening too fast On top of that a jungle is a whole host different than a desert in terms of claiming and holding, if anything he doesnt hold the desert as much as you dont hold the Jungle. As far as im concerned both of you guys are expanding a bit to fast

I never demonized you Feud, but I find your defensive behavior as excessive. The "multiple" people you mentioned admitted to either not knowing anything about the region, or simply refusing to provide any source for the claims that they made. If you don't know anything about the nation, then how can you claim what they are doing is implausible? I asked this question, and no one wanted to answer it. They either wanted to complain that I had to prove they were wrong (so they didn't have to prove themselves), or simply redefine the words so as to avoid changing their position. Benin is located in the jungle, it's the country's native terrain. Expanding and holding jungle territory is well within Benin's capabilities. As to Person, Songhai is based in the grassland regions, and its southern border was demarcated by the jungles to the south. As you can see from the map, your nation is well into the jungle regions of West Africa. As for the region you speak of, it is still heavily-populated by millions of Africans (West Africa was home to a third of Africa's population in 1500). I'm expanding into lands that are sparsely populated, and technologically and militarily inferior to Benin. But hey, that's between you and them. But it's funny that you mention that, because the area I wanted to expand into is classifed as "grass and shrubland". The only difference being the population density. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:39, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

Viva, you have no room to speak on others being too defensive. Everytime someone brings up an issue like this with you you immediately get ludicrously defensive and even take it personally, even taking it so far as to say I have a "vendetta" against you.

You claim no one knows about the region, but every time someone gives a thorough explanation of why you can't do it while mentioning specific reasons why regarding the region, demonstrating their knowledge of it, you basically go "nu-uh, I know more than you!" You have asked questions, and they have all been answered, and you have completely failed at proving anyone else wrong, you simply ignore their concerns or override the conversation with your pretentiousness and alleged knowledge of the area. You simply assume no one knows anything about the region, yet you consistently ignore important factors regarding the region and Africa in general. You assume that the landscape of mainly savannah-esque Benin (as most of the farming and population centers were dryer and less dense in vegitation) is as developable as the mountainous jungles of Kamerun. You've claimed that this area is your people's native area and so they should know it, when that's flat out not true, especially concerning the geographical and ethnic diversity of the area. You've previously claimed the areas had towns and were ripe for trade-centers, and now you admit that are sparsly populated. You also refuse to acknowledge the factor that dieases are far more common in jungles, and especially given the landscape, and that you're not even a fully modern nation, guerilla warfare with any natives would be an issue, and yet you pretend having a gun and sword is also armor to a poisoned spear from an unseen assailent.

Songhai on the other hand has had much more cultural interactions with their surrounding areas than Benin and the southern coast, have more mineral wealth, and have a more hospitable landscape. Is Songhai expanding too much? Quite possibly. Is Benin expanding to much? Without a doubt. You need to chill, man. Daxus the Harbinger of Lameness (talk) 21:15, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

You seem to be taking this personally Dax. I simply made a point on the expansion of two nations. How can I be on the attack and the defensive at the same time? You have to make up your mind.

Anyway, you have provided no reason for me to believe you know about the region. I did the research, and I provided links to a Princeton University paper on the population of Africa when questioned as to the population of Benin, and I provided two links to a University of Hamburg paper (one an exerpt another a 297-page document on Benin) when questioned on Benin's capabilities. I provide my sources, you, Feud, and Edge have not. Edge went so far as to try to redefine the definition for "navigable", and threatened me with a six month ban for disagreeing with him. You never answered any of my questions, you along with Feud simply told my "I'm a mod, so deal with it", and refused to provide any evidence to your claims. How many times have I been asked "Where did you get the numbers for Benin's army?", "How is Benin's population ten million?", "How is Benin about to expand that quickly?", "How is Benin able to guns?", "How do you have contact with Portugal?", "How are you able to convert to Christianity?", "How did you build ships if you don't know how to sail?". Each time I have been asked, I have provided both an explaniation and a source for my actions. When you said I couldn't convert to Christianity, and then talked about how you were the "skeptical one", I asked for a source to your claim, and you said Madagscar. I asked for a link and you refused to provide one. It wasn't until I bothered you about it long enough, that you finally provided a link, which only proved my point. I said the people do what the nobles command, and converting was one of them. You claimed there would be a popular uprising, and you used Madagascar as an example. However, your example only showed that it was the Malagasy nobles who ordered the persecution of Christians, and the people dutifully carried them out. It wasn't a popular uprising.

Now you speak of the population and terrain. I stated Benin was a jungle because it is. "Jungle", better known as "seasonal tropical forest", covers the region Benin is located in, as this map will attest. As you can clearly see, the more heavily forested region is exactly where Benin is located. So I never lied, I simply stated a known fact. You speak of the diseases of jungles regions, well guess what? Benin is located in the jungle with those diseases. And last I recall, the reason millions of Native Americans were wiped out by smallpox, had everything to do with they having not been exposed to the disease. Benin's population has been exposed to the tropical diseases for centuries, so naturally, they would have a superior resistance to it, henceforth the reason there were ten million people living in densely-packed conditions in the Niger Delta where Benin was historically located. Since we're on the topic of population now, I never claimed the region of Cameroon was densely-populated, so I can't admit to being wrong. If you stop picking and choosing what to remember, you'll note I stated rather specifically Western Africa was densely-populated, not Central Africa, which I stated time and again was sparsely-populated, because it was. Whenever I spoke of the trade areas, I only ever referenced West Africa. And guess what? Cameroon is considered part of Central Africa by the United Nations as well as the local residents. Who would have thought? Also, why do you keep saying "Kamerun" when everyone else calls it "Cameroon" (that and the constant use of "tribal savages")? What's with the colonial lingo?

As for guerilla warfare, none of the tribals in the region used it. You know why? Because that relies upon having superior knowledge of the land. Guess what? Benin also knows how to fight in the jungle and use the resources of the land just like the natives, because like the natives, Benin is a jungle state. And how would the "tribal savages" know how to fight against a nation that in OTL was extremely successful in enslaving millions of people throughout the slave trade? If the tribals were as successful as you are trying to make them out to be, then the slave trade wouldn't have been as lucrative as in OTL. Who do you think the Europeans had going into the jungles to hunt these people and drag them to the coast? And without modern communication methods, how would they know the Benin army was approaching, especially if the villages didn't communicate with one another? You are peddling BS. Just admit that. If "having a gun and armor" were impossible to use against the natives, then why were the Spanish so successful in wiping out all Mayan armies when they invaded Yucatan? You think the Mayans didn't think about using the jungles and their "poison arrows" to fight the Spanish? If they did, appearently it didn't work.

The difference between Benin and Songhai is that Benin was a more established nation-state that didn't have to rely on trade with everyone to survive. Most of Songhai's gold, ivory, spices and slaves came from Benin, Oyo, and the Ashanti. Right now, the biggest West African kingdom is Benin, as it was in OTL. Benin's soil is more fertile, it is more populous, and it is more industrialized. It has larger cities and more of them. Benin had direct access to Europe in OTL throughout its history, which Songhai did not. If I remember, it had to go through Moroccan traders just to deal with the Europeans. Benin on the otherhand had ambassadors in Portugal as earlier as 1490, and regularly corresponded with the government of Portugal. You see, I know this because I actually look it up. You have yet to provide any proof for your claims. I have. I will chill when you start providing sources showing that I am wrong. Now, could we get back to the business of the map? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:15, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

"How can I be on the attack and the defensive at the same time?"

It's called acting like an irrational asshole.

So basically you think all jungles and terrain are the same, the Beninese have more knowledge of a barely-touched land than the natives, diseases rely solely on the landscape and immunities so that everyone from one jungle is immune to diseases from another, and having a big population makes carving territory through foreign uncharted lands more plausible? I don't think you know what the burden of proof is, it's not that we think it's implausible, it's that we don't believe it is plausible, and you're lack luster and silly explanations are not convincing us it's plausible. Daxus the Harbinger of Lameness (talk) 01:12, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

Funny. But on a more serious note, I think the land the Benin live on is the same on the one the natives live in, which I've shown to be fact. As for disease, you have yet to show that the inhabitants of a tropical climate are just as vulnerable to tropical diseases as foreigners. I believe that the population in that tropical environment was large enough to show that if they were just as vulnerable to tropical diseases as Europeans, there wouldn't be ten million in Benin to begin with. Also, great powers tend to demand great things, and a larger empire is one of them. Mind you, you only call my explainations "silly" and "implausible" a yous lack the ability to prove me wrong. You rambled on for a whole paragraph without providing a single link showing me anything you've said to be true.

You've only asked what I believe without providing a counterargument. Furthermore, you haven't proven any of the things I've said to be incorrect, only posited that my argument is wrong simply as it is coming from me. And I'm fully aware of what "burden of proof" means, and I have linked sources too all of my assertations. You on the otherhand have not. Please, show me what research you have done that shows that any of the things I've said to be untrue. I implore you. Remember, all I did was say that I planned to expand into the Congo, you made all of the assertions about "tribal savages". And if the definition for "bruden of proof" is correct, it is your job, not mine, to prove these "tribal savages" can beat Benin, not mine. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 06:11, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

"The country [Nigeria] is viewed as a multinational state, as it is inhabited by over 500 ethnic groups, of which the three largest are the Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba; these ethnic groups speak over 500 different languages, and are identified with wide variety of cultures"

Nigeria is an ethnically diverse state, and its hard to think that Nigeria could absorb even more ethnicities without facing large civil unrest due to its differing cultures. In my opinion, Benin's tiers should be lowered to three, and its expansion and modernisations should receive moderator supervision. It is not the Industrial Age, and such rapid development isn't possible without a huge secondary (industrial) sector. I also think Benin's population is over-inflated. Assuming Nigeria held 20% (it currently holds 16%) of the African population in 1500, its population should be 9.2 million (Africa's total population is 46 million, according to Angus Maddison's estimates). But this is the figure for all of Nigeria, yet Benin only controls over the Niger Delta (23% of the Nigerian population), meaning its population should be just above 2 million. I think Viva's aggressive, ignorant (like "you can only accept my sources and your sources are invalid") behaviour is completely unacceptable. Most players agree with me that Vivaporius is modernising/expanding too rapidly, and most also think that the mods needs to take action despite Viva's childish, long, and irritating arguments.

Cheers. ~<font color="Red">There was a candy,  and it said,  "Yo' shit, I'm coming for you, bruh. Oi bitch, g'day, you wanna mate?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Guys, this argument is getting silly. Please everyone chill.

First up, Viva - please stop taking most criticisms of your expansions as personal affronts driven by age-old grudges, it's just the mods doing their job. Try presenting your facts in a calm and civilised manner, not surrounded by insults, and see where that gets you.

Secondly, Dax and Feud - please, in your job as 'impartial' mods, I can sense the heavy influence of Viva's exploits in the past on your decisions now. Don't just assume he's being an unrealistically expansionist tyrant. Take the situation as it comes, and try to ignore the fact that it is Viva. Furthermore, it's helpful to present a link or source of some fashion to back up your points, which I'm sure are from valid sources. And also to you two with the politeness thing.

Thirdly - is it genuinely an impossibility to discuss constructively how to come to a compromise? I know I'm being intensely patronising and condescending here but jeez, can't you guys just calmly discuss something and come to an agreement? Is that too much to ask?

And finally - it's a map game. It's a bit of fun. I never like the idea of super-strict, 24/7 ASB enforcement pruning over your every move. We are supposed to be creating a world that is different, creative and exciting when compared to our own. If you don't allow a bit of unrealistic border expansion here, or a seeminlgy unmotivated war there, then we'll just end up with our boring old world that we live in, or something rather similar to the like. Furthermore, ASB expansion happens in real life too - if there were mods keeping ASB in check in our history we would never have had the great Greek Empire under Alexander, or the insane Mongol expansion in the 1200s. ASB happens in real life. Which, in theory, makes it not ASB.

I apologise if I sounded condescending at any point. It's my natural tone.

I remain,

FP ( Now 10% edgier!!! ) 12:15, March 7, 2016 (UTC)

I understand your concerns Forsaken, but let me go through this real quick.

First, yeah on that point you're right.

Second, I'm totally willing to let bygone be bygones and allow Viva to play this game without the stain of previous games on him. However, he has persistently ignored all of our concerns and has been acting foolishly. I've actually been trying to compromise with Viva, I'm not saying he can't expand as much as he wants to, I'm just saying has to do it at a reasonable pace, which I don't think he's doing. Also, it's hard to find links directly to disprove things, and what I have linked to Viva in chat he has ignored. It's hard to find a scholarly paper titled "Why Benin Couldn't Expand into Cameroons," y'know? I understand the desire for links and evidence, but this is more about how we find Viva's evidence lacking and unconvincing. But here are just a few links    that might sate you for now.

Thirdly,    I've actually been trying to compromise with Viva, I'm not saying he can't expand as much as he wants to, I'm just saying has to do it at a reasonable pace, which I don't think he's doing. I'm all for compromise, but Viva isn't, and everytime I so much as ask him to slow down he thinks I'm personally attacking him. Not to mention Viva is also consistently misrepresenting his goals. Whenever we question what he might be doing or what he wants to do, he claims that he has no intention of doing it, and then goes on to do it (e.g. expanding into the Congo).

Finally, yes, it is a map game, and the worlds should be different, but they also shouldn't explode into sillyness, and I don't think anyone wants to see a repeat of PM.

Daxus the Harbinger of Lameness (talk) 19:04, March 7, 2016 (UTC)

Actually Dax, you never provided any sources, which had been the cause of the argument. Things got so bad you started to resort to personal attacks because you didn't have any arguments. You even admitted as much when I asked "So this is just an ad hominem?" and you replied "Basically." You only now provide anything remotely close to evidence to your point. But in a totally "rational" and "calm" manner. I would like you and the others to remember that each time I provide a link that perfectly explains my point, you have attempted to discount it. Edge tried to redefine the term "navigable", even though the term simply means any river that can be crossed using the river's natural features. I even linked several photos (with time-stamps and locations) that show the locals using the river without the use of engines or massive manpower, proving the river is navigable for large canoes for passengers and cargo. And I never misrepresented my goals (even if I did, why would it matter), nor can you provide any list of goals I've made, as I never told them too you. When I proclaimed my intention to expand into the Congo, you and the others flipped. I never stated when it would happen, but you didn't care. Thus, I made it a goal to expand into it to make a point. Now I agree I don't like sillyness in a map game. If I remember, I only posted to bring up an issue with the map regarding my expansion not being taken care and Songhai being expanded at twice the rate of Benin. You and Feud dragged this into the Congo debate, not me. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:02, March 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Nothing on Cameroon's history before 1700 is given in your first link. It states nothing about the country's population, pre-colonial society, and relationship with the rest of the region in detail. It does give some details on the kingdoms in the region, but these were all small and founded in the 1700s.
 * 2) The diseases that exist in Cameroon also exist in southern Nigeria. You know as well as I do, that the only reason the Aztecs and the Incas were wiped out by smallpox, was because of their lack of exposure to the disease. The Benin have been exposed to these diseases for centuries, and will have naturally built up a resistance to the disease the same way the Europeans built up a resistance to smallpox. The threat of disease still exists, but in no way does it threaten Benin on the scale as the Native Americans.
 * 3) The geography of Cameroon is not a major issue for Benin. Remember, Benin is known in OTL for having moved tens fo thousands of troops during times of war with the use of canoes, of which it had plenty. This combined with Benin's ATL naval abilities, means that I can simply move around the mountains. Furthermore, the southernmost portion of the mountains are no higher than much of the land in the north, which is routinuely crossed by locals on foot. In fact, some of the roads on the map for Benin I created go through this region specifically for that reason.

Ayutthayan Vassalization of Cheingmai
75-65 = 10 years to vassalize Cheingmai. 1536-1546
 * Location: -10
 * Economy: -15
 * Motive: -5
 * Modifiers: -3-3-5-10=-21
 * Technology Group: -6+1=-5
 * Chance: 20,148*(8+3+5)*pi = 1012748.494
 * Nation Age: +5+5=+10
 * Population: -10

08:36, March 5, 2016 (UTC)

Lakshawdeep
Lakshawdeep is portuguese. The Ottomen don't own it. <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Jbwncster   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">(Talk)   05:55, March 7, 2016 (UTC)

War of Bavarian Liberation (HRE War)
Württemberg, Saxony, League of Erfürt (?) vs Austria, Bavaria, Florence, Poland-Lithuania

Tier Request for Brunei
During the 15th and Early 16th centuries, the Empire of Brunei was a force to be reckoned with. Maintaining its power projection through its strong fleet, the nation maintained multiple vassals on the island of borneo itself, aswell as in the phillipines and spread its influence further in Indonesia. A nation with such a power base could not exist without the military, technological, and industrial capacity to back it up. A nation with a power base like Brunei is, currently, together with disorganized african tribes at the bottom of the military, industrial and technological pecking order (some disorganized african states are even on a level above Brunei). This is simply not in conformity with reality. A regional empire at such an extent was not only organized, but powerful enough to maintian its edge over the other nations in its neighbourhood, not be below tribal barbarians on the technological pecking order. Thus, I would humbly ask to request for brunei's tiers to be upgraded, at least to the level of Ayutthaya as its presence as a regional power is at the same plausible level.-Lx (leave me a message) 01:48, March 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey Lx! The mods have set up a google form to request tier changes. It has become the official channel for tier changes. I don't have the link, unfortunately, but I'm sure you can find it ;) —  The  Tim   Man  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 04:27, March 8, 2016 (UTC)

Year Two (1538)
Left out chance, sorry about that. However, if I'm not mistaken, a difference of 110.6 after two years is a collapse for Korea. ~Fires