Talk:Axis vs Allies R-word (Map Game)

Enough Players
i think the number of players is adequate to begin. Nkbeeching (talk) 21:11, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

I concur. Let the games begin!

21:59, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Maps
I got a map proposal right here!



I fixed some things: That's great, except that Mongolia was colored because it was a vassal of the Soviets. If you are going to color Liberia, then you have to color Mongolia. You should also color the Dutch East Indies.
 * Labeled Liberia as part of America (it was effectivley an American colony)
 * Removed Mongolia from the USSR as it was never part of the USSR
 * Colored Italian colonies
 * Colored Portguese Colonies
 * Colored more British Colonies
 * Updated Yugoslavia/Albania and USSR/Finland
 * Morgan Freeman (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 03:06, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Seems legit, but Mongolia in Soviet color, East Indies in Dutch color, and you missed Sweden.

03:09, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'll add those for the next year Morgan Freeman (talk) 03:32, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Just do it on this one; you've got a good part of a day left to do it.

03:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Not where I live Morgan Freeman (talk) 03:34, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Christ man, it take one minute. If you cba, I'll do it.

03:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)



I fixed some things:
 * Colored Mongolia a Soviet-ish shade of red
 * Colored Dutch East Indies
 * Colored Sweden
 * Gave Southern Albania to Greece (assuming they accept the deal)
 * Morgan Freeman (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmmm, in the first place according to what i know Albania wasn't completely annexed by the Yugoslavians as they gained only 2.4% of albania, and although i would like to get southern albania, I haven't either Vassalized it or Invaded as to gain it, So unless the mods say i get it for some reason ( which i would think won't happen) or unless Yugoslavia Invaded it again, i wouldn't have anything to do with them other than a sworn alliance to them. So no point on Giving albania to Yugoslavia nor to southern albania to me. Thanks though. Sine dei gloriem 19:32, November 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Spartian300 (talk) 17:44, December 17, 2013 (UTC)Color Mexico two different colours, as me and Ratc are fighting for it. I'm the South.

Vassals
Vassals should be allowed, they are in real life, especially WWII. OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

It says you can't create stupid vassals, not that you can't create vassals. Course with you it'll be a moot point but...

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:30, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed.

Scraw

Algo
We might need one.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:31, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Working on it.

Scraw

Location
Location goes by the location of the nearest large concentration of troops. You can only have one; it will be of the Leader nation closest to the area.
 * Defending nation: at heartland: +5
 * On the border +4
 * A city close to the border +3
 * Far from the border +2
 * Opposite side of nation +0
 * No former presence +0 (you have to have troops in the location before the attack)

Power
Aerial assault is tangent with location. For the attacker, your aerial power must be close enough to the location of attack, with your land nearby for the planes to return to.

Naval assault is only applicable when attacking a coast.

Land assault is also tangent with location. No requirements for land assault other than being somewhat near to the border. Land, aerial, and naval is compounded. If you have large naval, medium air, and medium land, your score is 9 or 7. You cannot have medium aerial and large aerial at the same time.
 * Large aerial assault capability +3
 * Large naval assault capability +3
 * Large land assault capability +3
 * Medium aerial assault capability +3 (if enemy has no aerial power) +2 (if the enemy has aerial power)
 * Medium naval assault capability +3 (if the enemy has no naval power) +2 (if the enemy has their navy stationed in or around the location)
 * Medium land capability +3 (if three or more times larger than enemy) +2 (if less than three times larger than enemy)
 * Small aerial/naval/land capability: +1

Power is averaged in a coalition war.

''' Ahem: from now on, Power will work as a MULTIPLIER to development. You can increase your power, too, through development. '''

Industrial Strength
Industry is added up for all participants in a war.
 * US, Germany, USSR, FoA, Japan: +5
 * France: +4
 * , Italy: +3
 * China, colonies of the UK and France, rest of Europe, Ethiopia, South America: +2
 * Everyone else: +1

Scores will be changed over time.

Development

 * Military and Economic: Power x # of turns of development in that past 10 years (20 turns)
 * Infrastructure: Power x # of turns of development in that past 10 years (20 turns) (defender only)

Nuclear Weapons

 * +7 if major city is destroyed
 * +7 for first nuclear attack
 * +6 if minor city is destroyed
 * +5 for retaliatory attack
 * +10 for the first nuclear attack ever (can only be used for the first use of a nuclear weapon)
 * (Stacks)

Chance

 * The last digit of each editor's edit count. In case of PC-NPC war, NPC automatically gets 5.

Motive

 * Economic (Gains land, resorce, etc): +2
 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: +3
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 4
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 4
 * Aiding an Ally: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike: +5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 6
 * Attacking to enforce politcal hegemony: +7
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 8
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 8
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10
 * Modifiers:
 * Non-democratic Government supported by people: + 3
 * Democratic government supported by people: + 4
 * Government not supported by people: -5
 * Troop Morale high (requires motive over 5, chance over 6, and stronger development scores in at least one category): + 5
 * Troop Morale low (any of the above: chance below 1, lower development scores in all categories, recent war penalty over 8): -5
 * Fighting Guerilla War: -5 attacker, + 1 defender
 * Implausibility: -2 per impluasibility
 * Warning: Negative motive scores are possible!!
 * Lead nation's motive, not average.

​Population

 * Greater than 100 million +20
 * Greater than 50 million +15
 * Greater than 30 million +10
 * Less than 30 million +5
 * Larger than opponents: + 2
 * 2x size of opponent's: + 5
 * 5x size of opponent's: + 10
 * 10x: +15
 * Every further order of Magnitude (eg 20x, 30x): +20
 * ONLY of the leading nations

Allies

 * Leader Nations: +10 each participating
 * Military aid: + 5 each participating
 * Supplies: + 3 each participating
 * Cultural Support: +2 each participating
 * Vassal: -2 each participating
 * Withdrawal: - 2 each nation which was participating and then left
 * ex: China (L) Vietnam (M) France (S) Britain (C) Japan (MV) Korea (SV) = 10 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 24
 * Please note that Vassals CANNOT give Cultural aid

Recent Wars

 * Each war in the past 15 years where nation was a...
 * Leader: -4
 * Military aider: -2
 * Supplier: -1

Results
The equation for gains from war algorithms is (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where x is the number of the years the war goes on and p is the amount of territory determined by the algorithm ((y/(z+y))*2)-1 where y is the winner's score and z is the losers). So if your war lasts one year, you only get 50% of the territory, but if you let the war last five years, you get 90% of the territory. The minimum amount of territory you can win from an algorithm is 1%, otherwise it is a percentage of the loser's territories to two decimal places e.g. 13.69% not 13.69242%.

A great calculator for this is http://web2.0calc.com/ you just copy and paste the equations into the box and replace the letters with the numbers for that specific war. And then you just copy the answer to the main page. Or folks, just use Google. Their automatic calculator is a great aid in working out all this.

There will be on algo per phase/front of the war- NOT PER BATTLE, and ONLY for MAJOR wars.

If a certain war appears Implausible or otherwise, the mods reserve the right to change the amount of land gained.

Discussion
um i think we also need a naval algo, guerilla penalty in occupied territory, and also troop morale. Nkbeeching (talk) 09:34, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Naval Algo? Why? It's one algo per war lol.

As for the other two, algo's not done yet,

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  20:06, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

NOW it's done. Complaints any?

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  20:18, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Could I get the algorithm for the Yugoslvavian invasion of Albania? Morgan Freeman (talk) 00:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

USSR

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +9
 * Industry: +5
 * Development: + 2 (military) +2 (infrastructure/industry)
 * Nukes: +0
 * Chance: +8
 * Motive: + 16 (trying to get back lost land, economic, non-democratic support, high troop morale)
 * Population: +15 (over 100 mil, greater than 5x opponent)
 * Allies: USSR (L): +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particpation: + 10
 * Result: 73

Finland

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: + 1
 * Industry: +1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +7 (+3 less than 20 years, democratic government +4)
 * Population: +1 (under 30 mil)
 * Allies: Finland (L): 10
 * Recent Wars : 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 40

Results
((73/113)*2) - 1 = .292

.292 * (1-(1/4)) = .219% = 21%

USSR crushes Finland and Stalin decides to not purge his generals.

Discussion
Alternate:

SCRAW. You Screwed up that Algo TOTALLY.

I did it right. Then Britain went about sticking its nose where it didn't belong. As usual.

00:30, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yugoslavia

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 2 (Economic)
 * Population: + 11 (Under 30 mil, 5x larger)
 * Allies: Yugoslavia (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 47

Albania

 * Location: 5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 8 (defending heartland from potentially fatal attack)
 * Population: +1 (under 30 mil)
 * Allies: Albania (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participiation: 10
 * Result: 44

Results
45/66 = .6818181... x 2 = 1.3636363636... -1 = .3636...

.363636 x .75 = .272727272... = 27%

Yugoslavia crushes Albania

((47/(47+44))*2)-1 = 3.2%

If war lasts for 2 years (you can change that, Dax), then (3.2)*(1-1/(4))= 2.4 % of Albania. A strategic victory. Try again.

Discussion
'''Beautiful example how not to do it. Well, not actually, but you did most of it wrong. Thanks for laying down the basics, though.'''

 23:41, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil

 * Location: +4
 * Power: + 6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +32 (8 years mil, 8 years econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 7
 * Motive: + 14 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic govt, High Morale)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Brasil (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particaption: 10
 * Result: 82

Argentina

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: - 7 (Defending from potentially fatal strike, Low troop morale, 5 implausibity Citations)
 * Population: +1 (Under 30 mil)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participlation: 10
 * Result: 20

Results
(63 /(63+23)*2)-1) = 0.465116 --- Only if the algo is correct Brazil would topple argentina's government.

((82/(82+20)*2)-1) = 0.60784313725

(60.7)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 45.525%

Discussion
'''Wrong, Feud. *Sigh*. But you erred in his favour lol.'''

HOWEVER, IT WILL TAKE TWO YEARS.

 22:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: +6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: + 24 (6 turns econ, 6 turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +14 (High Troop Morale, Supported govt, Defending from non-fatal attack)
 * Population: +1 (Lower than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Ethiopia (L), France (L), Britain (L), Canada (MV), Australia (MV), India (M) USSR (S): 44
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 114

Italy

 * Location: +3
 * Power: +6
 * Industry: +3
 * Development: 12 (3 turns econ, 3 turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: -2 (Economic, Popular Support, Low Troop Morale, 1 Imp Citations)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 2x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Italy (L), Germany (C): 12
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 51

Result
((114/(114+36)*2)-1) = .52

(.52)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 26%

War can last for one turn; Italy will lose all territory in Africa. SO SAYETH GUNS.

23:33, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

SCRAW OBJECTETH. Italian Somalia to the Ethiopians, Tunisia to the frogs, and Cyrenacia to the limeys. The Ivans need nothing.

23:37, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

WE KNOW. FFS.

I uploaded a map of basically that persuasion, lol. Ethiopia gets Eritrea and Somliland. The Brits and French split Libya.

23:38, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

No Libya for the frogs. Leave part for the guinea dagos. (Guinea dago? Guinea dago! Figaro!)

23:41, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I need to take 26% of their territory Scraw. libya be going to French and Limeys.

23:44, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Taking all of Libya exceeds the 26% winnings.

23:45, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well not taking any of it doesn't fulfill said winnings.

So give half to the Brits and leave the Dagos the rest lol.

23:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I see three problems with this algorithm. This would give me a score of 54, While your scor would remain as it was originally. the equation should go as follows:
 * First, Italy's location should be five; I already had a large concentration of troops within the Ogaden at the time of your attack
 * Second, my motive score should be zero, not negative. I have non-democratic government supported by the people(+3), and I am attacking for economic reasons(+2) for a total of five, which is negated by low morale.
 * Third, my participation score is listed as 0.I've definitley participated in the war, so it should be ten like it is in any other algorithm

((114/(114+54)*2)-1) = .35

(.35)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 17.5%

Taking into account that you would already have to elimate the italian prescence in the Ogaden, by the end of the year, you would probably manage to make significant penetrations into Somaliland and Eritrea. To take Libya you would have to get Britain and France involved, which could not be done except by having another large European war, something not likely to happen over a nation such as Ethiopia. Wegscuba (talk) 02:39, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Ethiopia was the largest non-European nation in Africa and had well over half a million angry men that the Emperor could rile up into a fight as he did in the Italo-Ethiopian War. Having Ethiopia as an ally was something Europe was interested in OTL during the 1920s and 1930s. Also, during the end of WWII, the British and French devoted tens of thousands of troops to fight the Italians in Ethiopia as part of the East African Campaign. Ethiopia was much more important than you would have us believe Wegscuba. Also, Italy was weak compared to all the other European powers, definently weaker than the top two dogs Britain and France. Both were superpowers, and the other had a massive colonial empire than made Italy's look insignificant (especially when you look at Africa). No offense though. And remember, your not just fighting Britain and France, your fighting Canada, South Africa, Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Chad, India, and Australia as well, all of whom fought in every major conflict their mother country was involved in, and more importantly, surround Italian Africa as well. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 13:26, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Your territorial divisions make little sense. I will return to offer my suggestions that make more sense to me.

Happy Thanksgiving.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 15:05, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

AHEM.

Weg; only defending nations can recieve a score of 5.

In addition, you have one impluasibility citation. So -2, not -7.

That's an accident (about the particpation score.)

So your actual score is 51.

((114/(114+51)*2)-1) = .38

(.38)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 19%

Which happily solves the problem of Libya. You lose all colonies in Africa save for your largest.

Actual, I expected MP to enter the war on your side, thus sparking WWII.

Hehe.

18:47, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

That solves a lot of the problems I had, especially now that Britain and France are aiding Ethiopia. Wegscuba (talk) 23:28, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well now. This is interesting, and now that I have returned and I am in considerably better mood, let us look at this.

I think the territorial acquasitions are a little overboard. Ethiopia would, without a doubt, get Eritrea. But they would not get Italian Somililand. The Somalis would never allow it, and the Ethiopians would be hard pressed to control such a large Muslim population.

If Somaliland were to be ceded to someone else, it would likely be Britain. Or maybe Germany...just kidding.

I think you guys are making this seem like more than it is. Sure, Italy just invaded a nation, but that was not unexpected. Furthermore, this is not WW1, you don't have to strip the nation of all of its colonies.

Combine that with the racism, and how the British and French must be laughing themselves to death that the Italians cannot beat the "uncivilized" Ethiopians when the technology gap has widened even further, I doubt they would hurt the embarrased Italians further.

Just my thoughts.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 13:48, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Second Sino-Japanese war
can somwone do the algo i suck at these. i have been developing military and industry every turn, i have the support of manchuria, and i have a very large stnding army onv the continent, along with the navyy blockading the Chinese coastline.

Japan

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry + 4
 * Development: 36 (9 mil, 9 econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +10 (econ, high morale, popular support)
 * Population: + 2 (greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Japan (L): 10
 * Recetn Wars: 0
 * Particpation: 0
 * Result: 83

China

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 0 (No govt)
 * Industry: 0 (No govt)
 * Development: 0 (No govt)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: - 10 (No govt)
 * Population: 0 (No govt)
 * Allies: 0 (No govt)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 5

Result
((83/(83+5)*2)-1)= 88.6%

(88.6)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 44.3%

War lasts one turn; Japan totally destroys what little government is left and effectively annexes the whole nation. Absolute control not yet granted; but basically everything.

Brazil

 * Location: +4
 * Power: + 6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +36 (9 years mil, 9 years econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: + 14 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic govt, High Morale)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Brasil (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particaption: 10
 * Result: 79

Argentina

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: - 7 (Defending from potentially fatal strike, Low troop morale, 5 implausibity Citations)
 * Population: +1 (Under 30 mil)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participlation: 10
 * Result: 20

Results
((82/(82+20)*2)-1) = 0.60784313725

(60.7)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 45.525%

'''^ I know this is wrong (Results wise) but idk how to do that could someone please 1. tell me how and 2. teach me sometime soon. The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me) '''

Discussion
This makes no sense... what?? You already did the algo... ~Guns

German Invasion of Poland
DAMMIT GUNS I DID THE WHOLE DAMN THING AND YOU GAVE ME AN EDIT CONFLICT. ~S

HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH ~G

Poland

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 7 (Low troop Morale, Democratic support, Defending Heartland)
 * Population: +2 (Greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Poland (L), Britain (M), France (M), India (MV), Australia (SV), Canada (SV), New Zealand (SV): 10+5+5+4+1+1+1 = 27
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 61

German-Soviet Alliance

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: +10 (Germany: 5, USSR: 5)
 * Development: 80 (Germany: 10 turns mil and econ; USSR: 10 turns mil and econ)]
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: ((2+5)/2) = 3.5 ~ 4
 * Motive: 10 (Economic, High troops morale, Govt Support)
 * Population: +15 (Greater than 100 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Germany (L), USSR (L), Italy (M), Austria (M): 30
 * Recent Wars: -8 (Finland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 164

Result
((164/(164+61)*2)-1) = 45.8%

(45.8)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 34.3%

It will take 2 turns for the full anexation of Poland.

Germany

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 44
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 7
 * Motive: 5 (economic, Govt support)
 * Population: +2 (Greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Germany (L) USSR (M) Italy (M) Austria (M) Spain (C) Sweden (M): 33
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 119

Denmark

 * Location: 5
 * Power: ((9+9+6)/3)= 8
 * Industry: +12 (Denmark, Britain, France)
 * Development: 88 (France: 10 turns mil+econ Britain: 10 turns mil +econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: +15 (defending from fatal attack, high troops morale)
 * Population: +7 (Greater than 100 mil, larger)
 * Allies: Denmark (L) Britain (L) France (L) India (LV) Australia (MV) Canada (MV) New Zealand (MV): +51
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 51

Non-jacked Results
(119//170)*2 - 1 = .40

(40)* (1-1/1) = who gives a flying fuck OTL says it happens

ACTUAL results based on actually reading what people post:

(202/(202+119)*2)-1=25.85%

(25.85)*(1-1/(2*1))= ~12.9%

The German invasion is momentarily thrown back, and allied troops advance into S-H.

Discussion
So, I do point out that Sweden is also involved in this algorithim, and another thing that I thought up of as well, pertaining to both this algorithim and the previous.

How can the Allies possibly support Poland, when there is no way for the Allies to get there and there were now ally forces there beforehand. Likewise, there were no Allied forces in Denmark at the time of the invasion. How could they possibly help? And how could India, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand possibly help within the initial weeks of the invasion, when it takes a few weeks to get there?

Furthermore, the algorithim is wrong. As Denmark is the leader of its own defense, it would not have the development, and it cannot possibly be aiding an ally. It also would not have population of more than 100 million.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:08, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Because the Brit colonies sent it LAST TURN!

Because both Britain and France moved troops to the North Sea LAST TURN!

Because Britain and France have sent their armies there, along side the Danish ones- it's THEY who are aiding an ally!

~ Guns

Ok, So let's resolve this here, k? Don't edit the algo yet.

22:56, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Defense
Why can't I help Leichenstein defend itself? Daeseunglim (talk) 22:59, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

It needs no defending. Neither do you.

23:01, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ahem *It don't need no stinking defending. Neither do y'all.

Every Silver Lining has its Cloud...    (And here I am!)

Small Note
Please note that in order to make the algo easier and more plausible, I have changed a couple of things. k?

Every Silver Lining has its Cloud...    (And here I am!)

France

 * Location: 5
 * Power:9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 2
 * Motive: 9 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic)
 * Population: + 15 (greater than 50 mil)
 * Allies: France: (L) Turkey (L) Britain (L): 30
 * Recent Wars: -4 (Aid to Denmark and Poland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 129

Germany

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 4
 * Motive: 9 (Defending from Non-fatal attack, Govt Support)
 * Population: + 17(Greater than 50 million, larger than opponent)
 * Allies: Germany (L) Russia (M) Austria (M) Italy (M) Chechkoslovkia (M) Spain (C): 32
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Denmark, Poland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 137

Result
((137/(137+129))*2)-1= 3%

(3)* (1-1/(2*1)) = 1.5%

The Germans breakthrough Frnech lines.

Discussion
Is this France attacking Germany or Germany attacking France? CourageousLife (talk) 00:39, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Kinda hard to tell. I mean, the French declared war first, but I'd guess that this would be a German attack? here, there's no clear aggressor.

But no worries. This is just for mod-events.

00:44, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Germany

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 4
 * Motive: 9 (Defending from Non-fatal attack, Govt Support)
 * Population: + 15 (Greater than 50 million)
 * Allies: Germany (L) Russia (M) Austria (M) Italy (M) Chechkoslovkia (M) Spain (C): 32
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Denmark, Poland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 135

Britain

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: 14 (Pre-emptive strike, Democratic, High Morale)
 * Population: +17 (Greater than 50 mil, greater than opponent)
 * Allies: Britain (L) India (LV) Turkey (M) France (M) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) New Zealand (MV): 41
 * Recent Wars: - 5 (aid to Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 149

Result
(149/(149+135))*2) - 1 = 4.9%

(4.9)* (1-1/(2*1))= 2.45%

Britain makes a small Breakthrough in the North, establishing a beachead.

20:30, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
So, I may be annoying here, or I missed something, but I recall Turkey sending troops to France, not to invade Germany.

Furthermore, and I call upon a neutral mod to look at this, but how could Turkey get troops to France? There is no land route, and the sea route is right by Italy, an Axis ally.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:50, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Idk. I can get rid of them, but I think Turkey could do it- Italy's navy ain't worth shite, and Gibraltar is British.

00:58, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Italy had the fourth largest navy in the world at the time, and with less colonies, all the ships would be in the Med.

Turkey's navy is much smaller, I think.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:10, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Fair, fair. You can remove em if you want.

A small Concordat
Listen, I don't really want to deal with this algo and the inevitable arguments it will cause, so can we agree on something?

Germany get 60% of the total pixels of both nations, the remainder remains free under British protection.

Otherwise, idk. I mean, France and Britain mobilized a lot earlier than OTL, so methinks it won't just be a straight victory. But you guys have an outside chance of getting the required 1/3, I suppose, but I'd say you're more likely to get around 15%.

22:32, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Germans have the Ivans on their side ATL. I say all of it.

22:48, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Umm please. Scraw, you cannot send troops to Belgium, k? How the hell would that happen? I've got 90% of the Home Fleet sitting in the North Sea just begging for a shot at your navies. And say what you will, we all know that the RN could take both of your navies down, together or individually. No possible way for them to become a leader.

Now, you're going to say that it is then Implausible for India to lead, and I will agree with you. Cos frankly, if they're leading, shit just went down, population wise.

Military supplies, so what? You get to send an extra +5 the German way. Ain't enough.

Simple fact is, With Britain sending in troops, France supporting, you probably will win- I'm not going heavy metal do defend the Low Countries- but you'll be exceedingly lucky to get more than 20%. If that.

22:55, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

You neglect to account that Germany has no eastern front, so more troops can be used in the west, and my forces can always cross Germany.

04:24, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

France

 * Location: 3
 * Power:9 (med naval, land, and air)
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 40
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 9 (Defending territory, Democratic)
 * Population: + 17 (greater than 50 mil, larger)
 * Allies: France: (L) Britain (L): 20
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Poland, Alsace/lorraine, Charlemagne)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 107

Italy

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 7 (high naval, med land and air)
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 30
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: 9 (Pre-emptive strike, Govt Support)
 * Population: + 15 (Greater than 30 million)
 * Allies: Italy (L) Germany (L) Austria (M) Russia (C) Chechkoslovkia (M) Spain (M): 37
 * Recent Wars: -4 (Ethiopia)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 121

Result
((91/85+89)*2) - 1 = .034

(.034)* (1-(1/2*2)) = 0.025 = 2.5% The campaign lasts for 2 turns. Morocco is taken, and the italians gain a strip of land which runs along the eastern border of the Western Sahara, to the West african Coast and ending at the Senegal river.Wegscuba (talk) 04:15, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Weg, what the fuck? You would have gotten 2.5%, not 25%. But you did screw it up. So actually, you got...

((121/121+107)*2) - 1 = 6.1%

(6.1)*(1-1/(2*1))= 3.05%

I hate mathWegscuba (talk) 03:03, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Japan

 * Location: 3
 * Power: meduim land, large air, large naval (plus 8) = +8
 * Industry: +4
 * Development: 30
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 9
 * Motive: 16 (Enforcing political hegemony, high morale, govt support)
 * Population:  30 (Greater than 100 mil, greater than opponent)
 * Allies: Japan (L), Manchukuo (MV) = 14
 * Recent Wars: China (L) minus 4
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 120

Dutch East Indies

 * Location: 5
 * Power: (after Dutch collapse no effective govt)
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: + 5 (defending)
 * Population: 10 (greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: 0 (After Dutch collapse no effective govt)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result:36

Results
(120/(120+36))*2 -1 = 53.84%

(53.84)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 40.8%

Japan gets all of it, blah blah blah, etc.

Discussion
id appreiciate hep with finishing this XD thankyou Nkbeeching (talk) 14:02, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Czechs

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 6
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 8
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +10 (econ, Govt support, high morale)
 * Population: 7 (Less than 30, larger than Opponents)
 * Allies: Czechoslovkia (L) Germany (M) Italy (M) Spain (S) Russia (S) = 26
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 79

Hungary /Austria
Result: +64
 * Location: +5
 * Power:  +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +6 (three turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: +5
 * Motive:  + 3 (Possibly fatal attack, low morale)
 * Population: +5 (Less than 30)
 * Allies: Hungary (L) Austria (M) : 15
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10

Result

(79/(79+64))*2 - 1 = 10.4%

(10.40)*(1-1/(2*2))= 7.8%

Discuss
Does Hungary have a higher population than Czechoslovakia?

Yep. No worries. Fixed it

Austro-Hungarian allaince can claim 13.25% of Czechslovakia.

What? Why do they get some bullshit Land War advantage thing? Czechoslovakia has a better military than Hungary.

Does anyone check these 'statistics'? Hungary has a population of 9 million, Czechoslovakia has a population of 15 million.

And Hungary is not the same as Austria. Austria wouldn't go to war with Germany. It wanted to be called 'German Austria', ffs.

Local, calm down DS|The Rainbow Machete 21:46, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

... Says the person that vandalised an algorithm...

'''DEAN. What the fuck? You totally screwed up this algo! '''

'''I have fixed it and I do not want to see any more edits here unless you check with me first. -.-'''

Spain

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 3
 * Development: 8 (6 military, 2 economy)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: 15 (enforcing regional hegemony, high morale, govt support)
 * Population: 10 (Greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Spain (L) + Brazil (S) Germany (M) USSR (C) Czechoslovakia (C) Austria (S ) Sweden (M) Italy (M) Portugal (M) Argentina (SV) = 39
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 109

Britain

 * Location: 3
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 44 (11 turns mil and econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: 11 (defending territory, democratic support)
 * Population: 15 (Greater than 50 mil, 2x size (I am counting some of the colonies here))
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) India (LV) New Zealand (MV) France (S) USA (S) = 36
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -15 (War against Germany, aid to Republican Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Result = 124

Total
I'd do the thing here but let's be honest, I can't really take much land from Spain, not while I carry out two simultaneous invasions, so how about the Spanish forces are just hurled back and cannot attack Gibraltar for another 3 turns?

Discussion
Not entirely familiar with how we're doing population scores here. Since I'm not invading Britain proper, should I be using Gibraltar's population? Aside from that, it's completely possible/likely that I borked the algorithm. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 14:33, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

S'ok, I got this. You screwed up some points, but mostly s'all good. You do use Britain's population. I guess if you invaded the Falkland's it might be different initially, because it would take time for the Brits to arrive, but here the Brits would arrive within a day. And we already have support from the colonies.

~ Guns

No. Gibraltar population + the number of men in the defending force if you want to push it. Not budging.

00:28, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Gibraltar was back then not even a days sailing from Britain. It would be mere hours before reinforcements could arrive.

I mean, we could carry out two algos here, one for the original invasion invasion and the other for what happens later, but I have Imp's 7 million troops, and I've only deployed 3 mil so far.

00:37, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

AUSTRIA IS NOT HELPING THE AXIS!!!!! STOP adding me to all your algos, got it??? DS|The Rainbow Machete 17:51, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Japan and Thailand

 * Location: 4 (Th), 2 (Jp)
 * Power: 8 (Th), 9 (Jp)
 * Industry: 1 (Th), 4 (Jp)
 * Development: 34 (17 military, Th), 34 (Jp)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 4 (9,214, Th), 2 (2,052, Jp)
 * Motive: 6 (Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed) (Th), 6 (Jp)
 * Population: 5 (less then 30 millions, Th), 20 (more then 100 million, Jp)
 * Allies: Thailand (L), Japan (L)
 * Participation: 10 (Th), 10 (Jp)
 * Recent Wars: Dutch East Indies (Japan (L)), China (Japan (L)) -8
 * Result = 84 (Th), 87 (Jp) - 8 = 163

French Indochina

 * Location: 2
 * Power:
 * Industry: 3
 * Development: 37 (10 military, 7 economy, 1 infrastructure)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 1 (1,911)
 * Motive: 10
 * Population: 10
 * Allies: France (L)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: West African Campaign (France (L)) Alsace-Lorraine Front (France (L)), German invasion of the Ardennes, Ethiopia vs Italy (France (L)), German Invasion of Poland (France (M)), Schleswig Holstein Front (France (M)), Spanish Invasion of Gibraltar (France (S)) -21
 * Result = 52 (needs power)

Total
To be finished.

Discussion
redo the calcultion since you need to include jaapns statistics in this and we still dont know other nation's reactionsNkbeeching (talk) 22:37, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Since France is a leader, should be counted as a seperate entity in this algorithm, with it's own scores for these categories. CourageousLife (talk) 23:09, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

I believe all parties have come to an agreement on the state of the war. CourageousLife (talk) 23:37, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

yes this will be a legal occupation to keep the region out of foriegn influence and prepare the region for decoloniztion under joint influence but in affiliantion with the japanese sphere, this is my points if not accepted then i will move forward as i see necesary for now this is not awar but a legal occuaption.Nkbeeching (talk) 23:52, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

So quit killing my citizens. It's not yours just yet. CourageousLife (talk) 05:07, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil
​*Population: +30 (Brazils population is much much greater than Guyanas by over 100X not to mention i doubt Britain can sail here in a day or two much less a month or two with all its troops so tied up)
 * Location: On the border +4
 * Power: +9
 * Industrial Strength:+3
 * Development: +72 (18 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +7
 * Motive: +12
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(MSV) +18
 * Recent Wars: -8
 * Results: 147

Britain

 * Location: +2 (no previously stated troops in the area but ill give benefit of the doubt)
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48 (12 turns mil and econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 1
 * Motive: 8 (+4 not heartland but held for over 20 years) (+4 Democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (British guyana had a population of not just over 300,000 in the 40's)
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) India (LV) New Zealand (MV) France (S) USA (S) = 36
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -15 (War against Germany, aid to Republican Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Result = 73

Result
(147/(147+73)*2)-1 = .33485194 (33.4)*(1-1/2*3)= 27.83

Brazilian troops outright destroy the military forces in British Guyana and a few islands continuing on. The Brazilians Demand the outright surrender of all Britain's Caribbean territories.

Discussion
Just for Troops i gave him the benefit of the doubt that there would maybe be a few around but most would be fighting on the various fronts. as for population this is not Gibraltar, the Brits cannot sail here in a week to come deal with this situation most ships as guns has stated are in Europe holding the line.

Brazil
Location: On the border +4

Power: +9

Industrial Strength:+3

Development: +72 (18 turns Mil and Econ)

Nuclear Weapons: N/A

Chance: +7

Motive: +12

​Population: +30 (Brazils population is much much greater than the Falklands and other islands by over 100X not to mention i doubt Britain can sail here to deal with me so preoccupied.)

Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(MSV) +18

Recent Wars: -8 (war with argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.

Results: 147

Britain
(147/(147+73)*2)-1)= 0.3363636363636364 (33.6)*(1-1/2*3)= 28.0%
 * Location: +0 (yeah no troops whatsoever)
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48 (12 turns mil and econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 1
 * Motive: 8 (+4 not heartland but held for over 20 years) (+4 Democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (British guyana had a population of not just over 300,000 in the 40's)
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) India (LV) New Zealand (MV) France (S) USA (S) = 36
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -15 (War against Germany, aid to Republican Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Result = 71

Brazilian forces outright Crush the British in the Area seizing multiple islands quite easily and demand surrender of the islands to Brazil.

Arrangements
OK, my fellow Axis, stop adding me as C in algos. Seriously.

And Dean, kindly shut up. You are Axis, OK? I don't know what this BS is between you and Hungary, but it stops here.

19:06, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Dean, you are Axis.

Scraw, you are too far away from the fighting to NOT be C.

And what the fuck is Brazil doing? This is such implausogasmic BS it ain't even funny.

Cour, can you post for me for the next say 3-4 turns? Or Enclave, or Fed?

20:12, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * How can I be too far away? How are you not too far away? You are an island whose only means of sending troops anywhere is via boat. I just have to get my men on a train, and that train goes through friendly land to the front.


 * 20:42, December 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah but like... no more than M, k? You ain't leading in France.
 * 20:49, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, but I'm pretty booked up myself. CourageousLife (talk) 20:40, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

No, actually, nvm. I can post for myself. It's ok.

20:49, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Possible end to the war
Discuss. Britain is willing to pull out of S-H and surrender all of our colonies in Africa and South America. In return, Germany will pull out of most of France. Italy will not gain any land lost in their war with Ethiopia. The USSR can do whatever shit it wants cause there is no point in arguing with Scraw.

21:44, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Territorial change
The following losses will be imposed upon the British: The following changes will be made to France: The following changes of occupation will occur:
 * 1) The British will relinquish control over all of their holdings in Africa.
 * 2) The British will be allowed to retain South Africa in the event that they surrender Northern Ireland to the Irish.
 * 3) Ireland demands that Scotland and Wales are also handed over to them.
 * 4) The British will relinquish control over all of their holdings in the Middle East.
 * 5) The British will recognize the loss of British Guiana to Brazil.
 * 6) The British will relinquish control of the land formerly known as India, leaving it to its own devices.
 * 7) The British will give independence to Gibraltar, which shall henceforth exist in the form of a city-state independent of any foreign nation.
 * 8) The British will denationalize the Suez Canal, which shall become the Suez Canal Zone, under joint administration by the United Kingdom, Germany, and the Soviet Union.
 * 9) The British will return Greenland to the Danish government.
 * 10) The British will release control of all territories in Southern and Central America.
 * 11) The British will surrender Malta to Italy and Cyprus to Greece.
 * 1) The location of Alsace-Lorraine will be directly annexed to Germany.
 * 2) The French will relinquish control of African possessions.
 * 3) The French will recognize the loss of French Guiana to Brazil.
 * 4) The French will surrender Corsica to the Italians.
 * 5) The remainder of France will continue existence as a free, fully independent nation.
 * 1) Germany will cease claiming direct control over Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Each of them will become independent of either party. The Swedish shall also return taken Danish land. The area known as Luxembourg will be left to the Germans.
 * 2) The Italians will move out of all formerly Allied colonies in Africa, and they will be given independence (as previously stated).
 * 3) The British shall remove all troops from Schleswig-Holstein.

With regard to finance

 * 1) Any financial dues from the earlier Great War will be cancelled.
 * 2) The British and the French shall return to the Germans all money collected since 1918.
 * 3) The British and the French shall pay Germany and the Soviet Union a total of (present day) two million dolllars every year until 25 years from the signing of this agreement have passed. Ireland, however, calls for this to be dismissed.
 * 4) The Soviet Union will pay for all damage in infrastructure caused to England, Scotland, and Wales in the year of 1940. This will be substracted from the British dues to the Soviet Union.

In agreement with the Allied Powers

 * 1) An international body shall be created with the intent of maintaining a global state of relative peace.
 * 2) With regards to this body, it shall have five permanent council members in the form of the United Kingdom, the United States, Germany, the Soviet Union, and the Empire of Japan.
 * 3) The Union of South Africa, if it shall remain with the British, will end the practice of apartheid. The black man shall also gain the vote.
 * 4) The British and the French shall not engage in any hostility with the Germans or Soviets until all reparations have been paid off.
 * 5) The British or the French shall aid the Germans or the Soviets in any war in the future for ten years until the passing of the signing of this agreement.
 * 6) In the unlikely event that the Germans and the Soviets engage in a war, the British and the French are welcome to pick the party they support or remain neutral.

German
Under this peace, all signatories acknowledge that Britain and France both are to blame for the start of the war. As such, the terms placed on Germany be the Treaty of Versailles will be declared and recognized as unfair and void. In addition, several territorial exchanges will take place.


 * Britain will acknowledge that they started the war.


 * Britain will acknowledge that the German puppet governments of France, Poland, Denmark, Belguim, Hungary, and the Netherlands are legitimate, and as such the former governments that escaped will return to those countries. They will not be harmed, and international observors can come to make sure that they are unharmed.


 * Several territorial changes will occur:
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Spain: Gibraltar


 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Italy: Malta
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Denmark: Faroe Islands, Greenland. In addtion, Britain will support Denmark's claim to Iceland.
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Portugal: Rhodesia
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Germany: Southwest Africa, British Cameroon, former German New Guinea.
 * In addition, Britain will also grant total independence over Egypt, Iraq, and Oman.


 * Several things will also be done:
 * Britain will support the Axis in wars for the next 10 years.
 * All hostilies will cease.
 * A new international body called the United Nations will be created to preserve the peace. Details will be worked out later.

Well, that is all I can think up of. Let me know of any other ideas.

-MP

British
Here be it resolved before the assembled nations;

A) Britain will agree to a cessation of hostilities against the nations of Germany, USSR, Sweden, Italy, Czechoslovakia, and assorted merry band;

B) Britain will pull all troops out of the region of Schleswig-Holstein;

C) Both sides shall leave the territories of Belgium and Holland;

D) Britain will grant independence to all lands in the continent of Africa with the exception of the Union of South Africa;

E) The Union of South Africa shall end the practice of Apartheid;

F) Britain will arrange for the total independence of the Dominion of India before the year 1950;

G) Germany shall vacate the territory of France such that save for the area of Alsace-Lorraine, it is as Ante-Bellum;

H) Italy will grant independence to all lands (3.5%) taken by them in the war against France;

I) Britain shall cede any land in South or Central America, granting independence;

J) Britain shall retain any territory not agreed upon by this treaty;

K) France shall retain any territory not agreed upon by this treaty;

L) Turkey shall not lose any land;

M) There shall be a new international body formed;

N) Said body shall have a Security Council with the following Members: Britain; the USSR; the USA; Germany; and rotating final member;

O) The USSR and Germany shall retain the power of veto over any bills introduced in said Council but not in the overall body;

P) Britain and France shall pay an endemnity of 1.5 million $ per year for 10 years;

Q) Britain and France shall agree to support Germany and the USSR with military aid in any wars within the next 15 years;

Be it here resolved, there will be a ceasefire declared upon this date until the agreement of an armistice.

French
1. France will be included as a principal member of the international body known as the United Nations (becasue of the war it was subjected to)

2. Territory


 * a. France will grant independence to it's African Colonies.


 * b. Indchina will be jointly governed by Japan and the United States for a period of 25 years, after which it will be granted independence.


 * c. France will decolonize it's African holdings and grant them independence.


 * d. French Guyana will remain under French jurisdiction as part of the decolonization agreements.


 * e. France will cede Alsace-Lorraine to Germany


 * f. The nation of China will be restored to status quo ante bellum, with the exception of territory taken by the USSR. The territory obtained by the USSR will be recognized as an independent nation, albeit a protectorate of the USSR. China will be joint-administered by Japan and the US for a period of 10 years for the purpose of rebuilding and supporting the new government.

3. Reparations


 * a. From the reparations determined, an amount will be subtracted from the overall payment for damage and losses caused by German soldiers on French soil

4. Regarding the future


 * a. Nations participating in the war will cease territorial expansion, influentially or otherwise, for a minimum of 15 years


 * b. France is allowed to remain neutral in a war between any two UN nations if they so choose

5. More to come...

Japan:
Japan requests that it be permited to sit down in the peace talks. with the single request that it become one of the permanant members of the new body proposed by the british, and that its sphere of influence in east asia be recognized by the other world powers.  Italy: A. Diplomacy


 * 1. A peace will be declared between all parties of the Second World War


 * 2. This peace will be considered binding, and lasting. Any violation of this treaty constitutes breaking international law.


 * 3. The British and French will pay reparations to the Axis powers which shall directly relate to to the loss of Axis manpower and materials for each country.


 * 4. To maintain this peace, prevent further war, and solve diplomatic tensions, a neutral organization of Nations will be created.


 * a.Any and all future resolutions created by this organization shall be considered final, including amendments to this treaty


 * b.the leading nations of this war, Primarily the UK, Germany, the USSR, France, and Italy will be the leading Nations of the assembly; They shall have abilities to veto resolutions, and by majority vote will be able to designate who shall recieve such powers

B. Territorial and National changes


 * 1.Germany


 * a. Luxembourg will be integrated into germany


 * b.any territories ceded by the germans after World War One will become part of Germany once again


 * c.The Governments created by germany in Denmark, Poland, Hungary, and the Netherlands shall be recognized as legitimate


 * d. The forer German colonies of Cameroon, Southwest Africa, and German New Guinea will be restored to Germany


 * 2. USSR


 * a. The USSR shall maintain control over all terriories gained during the course of the war


 * 3. United Kingdom


 * a. The UK shall cede Gibraltar to Spain, though it will remain demilitarized for a term not exceding 25 years


 * b. The UK shall cede Malta and Cyprus to Italy, and restore the former italian colony of Somaliland


 * c. The UK shall grant Immediate Independence to India


 * d. The UK will gain control of Greenland


 * e. The UK will return any territory seized during the war


 * f.  Any Dominion wishing to stay under Britian's indirect control (South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Or Canada) may continue to do so


 * g. The Lease on Hong Kong will be transferred to the Japanese


 * h. All other British colonies not specifically listed must be granted Full Independence by 1955


 * 4. France


 * a. France will remain independent


 * b. France will cede Savoy and Corsica to Italy, and Alsace-Lorraine to Germany


 * c. France will cede Algeria, Tunisia, and French West Africa to Italy


 * d.France will cede morocco to Spain


 * e.France will cede Indochina to japan and the United States, to be governed by both for a period of 25 years, before granting Indochina independence


 * f. All other French colonies will gain full independence by 1950


 * 5. India


 * a.all indian ports owned by foreign powers mut be ceded to India by 1955


 * 6. Japan


 * a. Japan shall maintain control over the areas aquired in combat


 * b. Japan must give those territories some autonomy. After a period not exceding 25 years, a referendum on full independence shall be held for all aquired territories


 * 7. Colonies of Axis Powers


 * a. All colonies controled by axis powers will be given a referendum on independence exactly 25 years after the ratification of this treaty, including both those that were aquired by war and those that were colonized
 * 8. Transjordan and Mesopotamia


 * a. The proposed organization of nations will control a territory in the middle east, which will be comprised of the Suez canal zone, Palestine and Transjordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Kuwait. The Territory will be broken up into independent nations by 1955.


 * b. The exact borders of the nations will be decided by the international council which will administer the territory

Czechoslovakian Proposal
Anything already agreed to, but with the understanding that Czechoslovakia is to do as it will in South Eastern Europe, barring nations that are part of either alliance.

Swedish Propsal

 * 1) Points that everyone agrees on
 * 2) Iceland shall be Danish and Swedeish joint adminesterd. (Stripes on the Map)
 * 3) The Brittish and French shall, and will support the axis powers in there wars for the next 5 years.
 * 4) Northern Ierland will be seeded to Ierland.
 * 5) Denamrk shall change its name to Jutland because a majority of the people of OTL Denmark are on the Swedish area that was annexed.
 * 6) Italy shall keep its captured land, and shall be seeded Somailia.

Points that all parties agree to

 * 1) There will be peace.
 * 2) The British and French will pay a sum that is yet to be decided to the Soviets and the Germans.
 * 3) An international body will be created, with the UK, US, USSR, Germany, Japan, France, Spain, and Italy as the principal members. The first five listed will have the ability to 'veto'.
 * 4) The first nation to violate two or more of the accepted terms shall be engaged in defensive warfare with all other signatories.
 * 5) Indochina will be jointly governed by Japan and the United States for a period of 25 years, after which it will be granted independence.
 * 6) The British shall remove all troops from Schleswig-Holstein.
 * 7) Luxembourg will remain a full part of Germany.
 * 8) The United States shall free Iceland and the United Kingdom shall return the Faroes to Denmark. The UK will however keep Greenland (MP and I agreed upon that)
 * 9) The Germans shall evacuate France (with the exception of Alsace-Lorraine) and Italy shall gain Corsica and Savoy.
 * 10) Germany will keep German-friendly governments in Denmark, Hungary, Poland, and the Netherlands, while the government of Belgium will return.
 * 11) With regards to decolonization, France must be finished by 1950, Britain by 1955, and Germany and all other Axis nations by 1960.
 * 12) Spain will get Gibraltar, but it will be a DMZ.
 * 13) The Suez Canal shall remain under British control (agreed with MP).
 * 14) Britain shall be allowed to retain the following territories after decolonization: Burma, Singhapore, Hong Kong, South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the South Sandwich Isles, the Falkland Isles, the Cayman Isles, Bermuda, Malta, and Greenland.
 * 15) Britain shall free all territories in the Middle East before the year 1945. The exceptions to this rule shall be Palestine and Kuwait, which shall be released in decolonization. Alongside these shall be what remains of Iraq once a Kurdish nation has been created from the lands of Iraq and Syria.

Signatories
The undersigned, on behalf of their nations, hereby agree that their nations shall respect and act upon all fifteen accords signed here at Geneva on the 16th of August in the year of our lord 1942, be it henceforth recognized that all nations represented here are expected to comply and fulfill the terms laid down here.
 * Vyacheslav Molotov, Foreign Minister of the Soviet Union
 * Albert Speer, Chancellor of Germany
 * Anthony Eden, Minister for War from the UK
 * Admiral Yamomoto, as representation of the Japanese Empire

Discussion
May I suggest that we have 7 permanent nations to the Security Council? They would be the UK, USSR, US, Germany, Japan, France, and Italy; however only the first 5 have veto power.

22:56, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Although the United States was not part of the War in Europe, besides supplying support to Britain and France, the United States will voluntarly hand Iceland back to the Danish Government (If the Mods approve). Enclavehunter (talk) 22:59, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I say Spain over Italy, and agree to veto power rule.

The mods accept the US offer.

23:22, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I support Italy over Spain. Italy acutally beat France at a few points, and Italy still has the fourth largest navy in the world.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:44, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me.

23:49, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't we have 8 and include em both?

23:56, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Even number is no good.

Arent the Americas supposed to be decolonized as well with the Guyanas being transferred over.? The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

I also propose that Germany is now freed from the provisions of the treaty of Versailles.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:44, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

I propose that the headquarters of the United Nations are in Geneva Switzerland, utilizing the old LoN headquarters, with regional headquarters in: New York City (NA), Rio de Janeiro (SA), Capetown (Africa), Tokyo (Asia), Jerusalem (Middle East), and Canberra (Oceania). Daeseunglim (talk) 01:54, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

I propose that the headquarters be in New York, since it was neutral in this war. Geneva can be the European capital.

02:08, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

As an Idea, the nations which will be the founding members of the UN should vote on the five nations which should have permanent veto powers. Those nations recieving a majority would become permanent mebers of the security council. They may only be removed from the security council by a unanimous vote from the other four. Wegscuba (talk) 03:03, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone have any objections on the sanctions laid out about the future of China? CourageousLife (talk) 02:24, December 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes. Me, Guns, Nk, and MP decided that China is fine how it is.


 * 02:27, December 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming on chat? CourageousLife (talk) 02:32, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Regardless of where, China should not just be allowed to be conquered outright. Respects can be made to the victors, but not all of the territory gained in the war should remain a conquered state. The Chinese people cannot just be easily assimilated. This could lead to unrest and uprisings in the future, as well as going against moral statutes. If nothing else, China's capital should be vacated of foreign armies and China should be allowed a seaport. CourageousLife (talk) 02:51, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a free China.
 * 03:02, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * France is aware of that. However, they have no seaports and it's natural capital is occupied by foreigners. I'm sure these needs can be met without much reluctance, because it's the morally right thing to do. CourageousLife (talk) 03:18, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * The USSR is aware of what. However, no ones cares because World War II was not the war on fascism or anything like that, it was just the war of throwing good old fashioned gentlemanly warfare out the window and replacing it with completely destroy the enemy and your side too if you have to as long as you come out on top, with no regard for the consequences. So you could say that morals were very very absent from the war in OTL, and we don't really have them in ATL either.
 * 03:22, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, disregarding the moral standpoint. France argues that China was still invaded and robbed of it's natural freedom and territory. This cannot be allowed to to unnoticed. CourageousLife (talk) 03:33, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait. What did Italy actually do in the war? Shouldn't Spain be the one, not Italy. Italy did fuck all...
 * One thing, Could greece get control of the ruins of Carthage, in similar way of Ceuta and Oran for spain. please. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 17:07, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can Czechoslovakia make a proposal? Fuck it. I am going to... Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

Oct here, icland did NOT belong to Demark at that time, it was just in a personal union Also i would like one more suggestion, can the Italains be ceeded Somalia. OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM  02:36, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

ill be vacating China evenutally i have no intention of annexing theem ill just be doig a few things there for a decade or so, i will eventually vacate the area. on the topic of my puppets, ill be creating a more allied based system in the 50s 60 as japan moves towards democracy.also ill be keeping certain areas while the rest will be ruled by a puppet regime which i will give more power to as time goes by, but like i stated earlier i will eventually be pulling out of China but after i set up things in a way so that Japan or its puppets and oversea territories will not be at risk.Nkbeeching (talk) 02:48, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Italy should regain Somalia. I'll give Algeria back, but Somalia must become mine again.Wegscuba (talk) 03:03, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil

 * Location:
 * On the border +4
 * Power: +6


 * Industrial Strength:+3


 * Development: +60 (15 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A


 * Chance: +3


 * Motive: +2 (Guerrilla war, economic, high morale)


 * ​Population: +25 (Greater than 30 mil, 10x Venezuelas pop)
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(SV)Venezuelan loyalists (MV) +14


 * Participation: +10


 * Recent Wars: -8 (war with Argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.)

Results: 119

Venezuelan Rebels

 * Location: +5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +24 (12 turns mil and econ) +18 Infra
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: + 9 (defending heartland, guerilla war)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Venezuelan rebels (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 90

(152/(152+77)*2)-1)= 0.3275109170305677

(32.7)*(1-1/(2*3) = 27.25

((119/(119+90))*2-1 = 13.5%

(13.5)*(1-1/(2*2))= 10.125% Brazil makes some initial advances

Discussion
Screwed it up something big, Feud...

Brazil

 * Location:
 * On the border +3
 * Power: +6
 * Industrial Strength:+3
 * Development: +60 (15 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +3
 * Motive: +2 (econ, high morale, guerilla)
 * Population: +25 (Greater than 30 mil, 10x Venezuelas pop)
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(SV)Venezuelan loyalists (MV) +14
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -8 (war with Argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.)


 * Results: 118

Venezuelan Rebels

 * Location: +5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +24 (12 turns mil and econ) +18 Infra
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +9 (defending heartland, guerilla)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Venezuela rebels (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 91

(141/(141+77)*2)-1)=29%

(29)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 21.75%

The Venezuelan city of Barcelona and large amounts of Territory in the Area is secured with Loyalist forces beginning to regain a foothold.

((118/(91+118))*2-1 = 12.9

(12.9)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 9.675% Barca goes back, and a little of the countryside.

22:20, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
For the record, you cannot give both Miiltary aid and Supplies.

Nor can you have more than 60 years development.

Nor can you stack population bonuses.

And you forgot the Venezuelan allies score.

22:06, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Greece

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +4
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 28 (mil and econ)
 * Nukes: +0
 * Chance: +9
 * Motive: +8  (Pre-Emptive strike,Non democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (8 million)
 * Allies: Greece (L) Germany (S) Hungary (SV): +15
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particpation: + 10
 * Result: 85

Turkey

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: + 4
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +4
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: +5
 * Motive: +12 (Heartland from possible fatal attack and democratic government supported)
 * Population: +7 (less than 30 millions but larger than opponents)
 * Allies: Turkey (L): 10
 * Recent Wars : -5
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 54

Results
(85/(85+54)*2)-1 = 0,22302158273381294964028776978417 =22.3

(22.3)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 16.73% is gained by Greece

For the record this is As far as the information given too me about both greek and turkish military status.

Lol I forgot the wars turkey aided in. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 17:39, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Chance when i posted was 9.

Change it then.

Done. this are the gains greece had from turkey, mostly turkish thrace, eastern anatolia and part of pontic turkey, that has become a Vassal. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 02:48, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Implausible Italy events
Italy seems to have randomly won a load of Africa due to a mod event. Why the fuck did that happen? They almost lost a war in Morocco, so the Events give them Algeria and Tunisia... This is bullshit. Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

I got Algeria and tunisia before I tried for Morocco. It would be plausible that I'd get something in Africa anyway, algorithm or notWegscuba (talk) 23:59, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

^ That, and anyway they aren't keeping most of those. Except Tunisia.

00:27, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Nukes, Space, Jets, and other such things
Ok, so now then, we need to get some things sorted out.

Firstly, a TL for the powers all to get nukes. That's what I have so far. If Spain and Italy get it.... well...
 * Germany+USSR: sometime in 1944
 * US: Early 1945
 * UK, Japan, France: late 1945

Now then, we need to talk about Brazil.

WTF? How'd they pull a nuke program out of their asses?

Other things to follow...

23:21, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Japan is working with the US, and I think we'll just do this: We'll deal with everyone else after that.
 * Germany/USSR: 1944.0
 * US/Japan: 1944.5
 * Britain/France: 1945.0

23:23, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

^ Fine.

Jets; I have them. Ok? I don't care about the others, but I have jet aircraft. I spent the last 10 years pouring every bit of my military budget into my air force, and damn me if that's all going to waste.

00:29, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

OK. Germany is working on it too, but they lack a big drive, so I think it'd take them up to 1946-ish for it.

00:47, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Hey. I got jets first. I have been working on them since before the war, and my engineers fixed the technical error that delayed them OTL.

So there.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:54, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

I've been working on them since turn one...

01:44, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Since your questioning my ability to have a nuclear program Germany has been sharing info on Nuclear stuff since 1939.5. Doesnt give me nukes in 1944 or anything but considering my Uranium deposits, in which i have exploited somewhat, and the fact i have other data and research than my own, i can have nukes by 1947-49 time period. that will have been 10 years of development and considering the development of the nuke and considering thats more than long enough given who has been sharing with me. im allowed to have nukes. 10 years is more than enough especially for a nation that has domestic Uranium supplies.

Pertaining to Jets, i have tests being done but i wont have practical application of them til the the tail end of the 40's and Early 50's. which was when most world nations were getting them OTL. The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

Brazil and Venezuelan Loyalists

 * Location: +3 (Br)
 * Power: +5
 * Industrial Strength:+3(Br)
 * Development: +80 (20 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +7 (Br)
 * Motive: +2 (Br) (econ, high morale, guerilla)
 * Population: +25 (Br) (Greater than 30 mil, 10x Venezuelas pop)
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(SV) Venezuelan loyalists (MV) Paraguay(SV) +14
 * Participation: +10 (Br)
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Br) (war with Argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.) (Previous attack on Vene rebels) -4 (Ven) (obvious what it is)


 * Results: 133

Venezuelan Rebels
(133/(133+91)*2-1 = 18.75%
 * Location: +5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +28 (13 turns mil and econ) +18 Infra = 46
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +9 (defending heartland, guerilla)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Venezuela rebels (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4 (fighting Brazil and Loyalists)
 * Result = 91

(18.75)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 9.375%

Brazil makes significant advances.

Discussion
I did a Coalition algo, which i looked at Nk's and Kogasas Algo for reference. I was also told i forgot this last time. so yeah im doing it for both cause ya know it is a coalition war technically... The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

>Chance doesn't stack, ditto Participation.

Population is the combined population of the Coalition, not stacked.

Power gets averaged, not stacked, ditto Industry, ditto Location.

There's only one motive for each side.

Since you vassalized Venezuela, this is a new government, the old developments don't count.

Apologies for earlier, you get 20 turns of straight dev, though.

Unless you have suffered a massive previous defeat, don't have any military or government, or have an entirely new nation, you cannot have power less than three.

Nk's Algo was not a good reference, because that was just a straight seizure of ungoverned land, with basically no resistance, whereas here you have an armed an organized resistance.

20:17, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil and Venezuelan Loyalists

 * Location: +3 (Br) +3 (Ven) (they came with Brazilian troops cause they got pushed out earlier)
 * Power: +6 (Br) +3 (Ven)
 * Industrial Strength:+3(Br) +2(Ven)
 * Development: +60 (15 turns Mil and Econ) +28 (13 turns of Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +7 (Br) +7 (Ven)
 * Motive: +2 (Br) (econ, high morale, guerilla) +1 (Ven) (Social/Moral kinsmen ther taking back their homeland)
 * Population: +25 (Br) (Greater than 30 mil, 10x Venezuelas pop) +5 (Ven) (can really say cause of rebellion +5 is the lowest)
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(SV) Venezuelan loyalists (MV) Paraguay(SV) Uruguay (SV) +16
 * Participation: +10 (Br) +10 (Br)
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Br) (war with Argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.) (Previous attack on Vene rebels) -4 (Ven) (obvious what it is)


 * Results: 144

Venezuelan Rebels
(144/(144+87)*2)-1) = 0.2467532467532468
 * Location: +5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +24 (12 turns mil and econ) +18 Infra
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +9 (defending heartland, guerilla)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Venezuela rebels (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4 (fighting Brazil and Loyalists)
 * Result = 87

(24.6)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 18.45

Discussion
At the conclusion of this Algo i have captured over 50% of the country again. The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

You don't need a second algo, that makes no sense.And you kinda screwed it up, see my comments above. Unlike NOTLAH, here you do NOT have algos per year or per battle. We make exceptions for massive wars where it is not possible for one algo to represent the entire thing; this does not qualify. You have taken 27% of Venezuela via algo, and at this point have been fighting for 3 turns. You cannot make algos every single turn; otherwise, a nation winning a war by 1% could make 33 algos and annex the other nation. Wait a bit, the rebels will squabble and collapse. -- 20:21, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

I call BS!
Feud has recently attempted to vassalize Paraguay without a war or longterm economic sanctions.

Now, this was fine with other nations, earlier, but there has been a massive rise in anti-Brazil sentiment due to their relentless expansion. In addition, Paraguay has traditionally hated Brazil's guts.

Now, I call bullshit. I say Feud must either go to war or impose long-term, like decade longterm, economic sanctions on Paraguay to vassalize them.

MP disagrees.

Fair enough.

I call for a vote!
 * Brazil must go to war (or apply some sort of heavy pressure)!
 * ​Guns
 * Daeseunglim (talk) 01:12, December 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fed (talk) 
 *  Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns. 
 * Brazil need not go to war (and may vassalize Paraguay off the bat)!
 * ​Scraw!
 * Discussion
 * Well... to be honest Dae... I did only mean mods... I'm sorry, I should have made that clear...

Discussion
Guns, a single mod cannot call a binding vote. Further, I call bs on you saying that sanctions are needed. That just makes things worse.

And I don't see how Brazil helping Paraguay out of the Depression wouldn't help. And there are ways to peacefully influence nations as well, like bribes and donations.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:20, December 11, 2013 (UTC)

Uhh, yes he can. A vote? Excuse me? Mods are supposed to decide this stuff. We have a disagreement? Call a vote. Since we couldn't reach a satisfactory conclusion.\

01:23, December 11, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, no he cannot. The mods have to agree that it would be binding. And my points are still valid.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:26, December 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well then. By voting Aye, you also vote that this is binding. Fair much?

And of course sanctions are needed! Paraguay and Brazil have a horrible history! The latter committed GENOCIDE on their population! I'm willing to accept long term sanctions with Pressure, but not a one-turn vassalization like what we currently have. Brazil MUST force Paraguay into this.

By the way, Fed posted on chat that he supported me, so I'll be adding his name- you can aproach him, he should back me up.

01:48, December 11, 2013 (UTC)

And has not proven it by signing off 22:09, December 11, 2013 (UTC)~

I am I Mod, I think? Anyway, I have signed. Feud, you vassalise to much Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

I think this is decided. Feud, declare a war or apply economic sanctions for 15 turns.

This
is glorious. Brings tears to my eyes. You have done well young grasshopper. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 01:50, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

STOP EDITING CONFLICTING ME! BUT PITA! YOU'RE ALIVE! :O :D

01:52, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed I am. How goes the Wiki? PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 01:54, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Also I'm considering jumping into the game... any nations I should take? PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 02:00, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

The Wiki goes fairly well.

Uh.....Kurdistan? idk. You could wait for the independence of Korea.

Do you want to be mod in the mean time?

02:01, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back, by the way. Nice to see you.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:03, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, Pita! Well, I'm still India and I'm still in a civil war. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:56, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back! Are you actually back?

22:03, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yesh I'm back. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 23:06, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Norway VS Sweden
Who is helping me in the war besides England. ShadowKnights1234 December 12, 2013 9:04 (EST)

Russia, I believe.

22:04, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Norway

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 5
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 20
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: 4 (pre-emptive strike, democracy, low morale)
 * Population: 5 (less than 30 million)
 * Allies: Norway (L) Germany (L) Hungary (MV) Poland (MV) Netherlands (MV) Denmark (MV) Britain (M) USSR (M): 42
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 95

Sweden

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 5
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 18
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 2
 * Motive: 13 (Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack, high morale, govt support)
 * Population: 10 (Under 30 mil, 2x larger) Uh.. with most of denmark it is actually 3 or 4|you don't own denmark|I own more than 50% of the population, with the part i annexed|which the Geneva Accords returned to Denmark|NO THEY DID  NOT, IT HAS BEEN INTERGRATED. SHOW ME PROF
 * Allies: Sweden (L): 10 I also have Norwegian rebles/sympathizers|doesn't matter|Yes they do, they have put the whole city of oslo into a civil war, that was in a closely read post.
 * Recent Wars: -6 uh and i was just really a millatry aidder...|then why should you be in the non-perm UNSC?|Then why am i not in it, if i was not just a millatry aider?|facedesk sooooo much. you retard, you're not in it BECAUSE you were just military aid|So why is it not less, Stupid hipcrate guns.|Meet onn this chat if u want to talk http://swplantets.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Chat%7C That wasn't me, genius ~Guns
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 71

Result
(95/(95+71))*2-1 = 14.4%

Norway get .7% after one year of war. Nothing major here, people, move along.

A goodbye
Due to biases held against me in Map games, and people being as ASB to me as possible, I have decided to leave this wiki. It has lead to a unsafe environment for me to well, do anything. I used to think of me dying in map games early was because of me "Octing Up", until I played AvA. I was a normal person doing my thing until the whole world invaded me, For no reason. All of them broke a treaty and in the algo became Hippocrates multiple times, just so I could fall.

I leave my Yellowstone duties to Mscoree and Bofixus, and Suriname to Feudalplauge. I leave my timelines and map games to Crimy and Imp. I give my best regards to Local, Ract, and TOBY, who have been as good a friend I could ask for. Many other people who are now off have done great as well, G greg e, Edboy, Dr. Eulz, EplicOco, and Itso. I also hope that the newer rising stars of ShadowKnights, Rcchang, and lastly SkyGreen.

The well respected user

<font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

Sorry to see you go Oct. Hope you do well, see ya. :'(  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:24, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

What nation r u? 21:53, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

I would like to say that I'm sorry to see you go, but I prefer the truth, so I'll say it;

You have some sort of persecution complex. EVERYTHING is an attack on you, if you don't like it. People being ASB to you? What are you SMOKING? You're SWEDEN, and you're trying to unify Scandanavia, despite the fact that Denmark is an ally of Germany, Finland part of Russia, and Norway an ally of of Britain, all of whom could kick your ass. And then you go on to piss off Germany by demanding Denmark.

If you learnt how to spell and how to articulate language, that would be one thing. We have at least 3 people on this wiki whom I know of who have autism, all of whom are extremely intelligent, so it's clearly not that.

You have no clue how these map games work, because you clearly have not read the rules, as beautifully shown by your comments on the above algorithm.

You take EVERYTHING as an insult.

Go, and never darken my towels again.

22:07, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

OK Oct. I'm sorry for being Hippocrates. I only wanted to be a normal doctor!

23:02, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

<Guns gives kudos to the above>

23:04, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

well he is prosecuted rather then persecuted and it is all fair and hardly biased, btw whos autistic ? first time i hear of this XD

Nkbeeching (talk) 20:51, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Argentina

 * Location: 4
 * Power: +4
 * Industrial Strength:+2
 * Development: +60 (15 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +3
 * Motive: +5 (Premptive strike)
 * ​Population: + 7 (larger, greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Argentina (L) Brazil (S) Uruguay (SV) +14
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -3 (Supplies to axis) (Supplies to Brazil during Venezuelan civil war)

Results: 114

Paraguay

 * Location: +5
 * Power: +4
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +20 (benefit of the doubt) +9 Infra
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: + 8 (defending heartland crippling attack)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Paraguay (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 77

(114/(114+77))*2 -1 = 19.7%

(19.7)*(1-1/(2*who gives a fuck you get the nation out of plausibility.

Ireland
Never did any algorithms, and was implausible. I have kicked him. Objections? Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

Kicked him? WTF?

16:58, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Map Issues
Egypt was never released; SA is still a Brit dominion and should still be pink.

17:33, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Britain

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 20x9=180
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 3
 * Motive: 15 (Maintaining Hegemony, Democratic, high morale)
 * Population: 25 (Greater than 50x, 5x population)
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) SA (MV) NZ (MV) Aussies (MV): 26
 * Participlation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -10 (WWII, various aids etc)
 * Result: 267

Ireland

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 5
 * Industry: 3
 * Development: 5x5=25
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: -2 (fighting against nukes, 6 implausibity citations)
 * Population: 5 (under 30 mil)
 * ALlies: Ireland (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result: 73

Result
(267/(267+73))*2-1 = 57.6%

(57.6)*(1-1/(2*2))= 43.2%

IRELAND GETS ANNEXED. NO NUKES.

Discussion
They betrayed us during WWII. They approached the Germans at the end of the war to declare war on us; their invasion was crossed out but nothing else was.

We recently found out. Next turn I will reveal that it was actually British agents looking for a re-annexation of Ireland who planted the bomb, and that it had nothing to do with the IRA. No matter; popular support would still be massively against the Irish.

Why would I use a nuke? Uhh... seriously? This is being called a punishment for a reason. The Irish might get some ideas about resisting punishment. The nukes informs them that this is a bad idea.

Nuking out of the blue, my ass.

What's more, this aids many of our allies, as Ireland was a major supporter of Korean idependence. We just signed an NAP with Japan. Norway, an ally of Ireland, is pushing for Germany to release Sweden. This reduces their influence.

Point is, A) this is plausible and B) you're nations would all be in support of this. So if you go against this, it's basically just metagaming.

Of course, since MP and Scraw own the game, if they choose to distort the fabric of reality in the game and, say, make the Brits feel all happy towards the Irish for betraying them, then of course, I retract my algo.

I will not go into MP's rollbacking of my arguments on the page.

22:24, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

And how, pray tell, did you find out that they were in talks with Germany?

Also, this is a waste of nuking when conventional warfare would be perfectly fine. I have no problems with this war unless you use the nuke.

22:26, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

But I wants the nukes.... That's one of two big reasons for invading.

You just want the plus +10 bonus.

-.-

I SEE YOUR EVIL PLAN.

BRACE YOURSELF BERLIN-

SCRAWLAND IS COMING

22:34, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

plz if I nuke anyone it might be India to stop the war.

22:36, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

That's what I was going to do instead.

Dammit Scrawland. Dammit.

22:40, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

b ritain has no reason to nuke ireland. F*** that nuke. Besides, nuking ireland is a move any person can as

" nuke ireland? wouldn't germany, ussr etc. turn againest you?" the war continues. never understemate an angry irishmen. but i think areas around donegal, northern ireland and meath are mostly taken. F*** British. Also, the IRA is so going to bomb london now.

Spartian

Spartian, your nation has been annexed, get your ass over it.

23:01, December 16, 2013 (UTC)

When it turns out that it was british agents that planted the bomb, the war is going to turn againest britain. Btw, i going guerilla on your ass.

Spartian300 (talk) 22:49, December 16, 2013 (UTC)

The Brits didn't plant the bomb.

And PLEASE SON. My troops will kill yours. And no playing as guerillas anyway.

23:01, December 16, 2013 (UTC)

Mexican Federation.
Location: +4

Power: +6

Industry: +1

Development:6x5=+30

Nukes:0

Chance:+6

Motive:+17 (aiding kinsmens, Democratic, hegemony)

Population:+5

Result:69

Communist Mexico.
Location:+5

Power:+5

Industry:+1

Development:5x5=25

Nukes:0

Chance:+5

Motive:+8(defending heartland)

Population:+5

Result:54

Result:
Mexican Federation takes the border, and pushes north. Heavy causalities for the communists.

Communist Mexico
Location:+5

Power:+4

Industry:+1

Development:4x6=24

Nukes:0

Chance:5

Motive:6(taking back land)

Population:+5

Result:50

Mexican Federation
Location:+3

Power:+6

Industry:+1

Development:6x6=36

Nukes:0

Chance:6

Motive:+6

Population:+5

Result:63

Result:
Operation Lion's Cut is halted, but with heavy casualties on both sides.

What are these implausogasms?

'''My first Algos.... Not the last one though.''' Spartian300 (talk) 10:31, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

United States

 * Location - 4
 * Power - 9 (Large land, medium air, small naval)
 * Industrial Strength - 5 (United States)
 * Developement - 90 (9x10)
 * Chance - 8
 * Nuclear weapons - 0
 * Motive - 16 (American political hegemony, democratic government supported by the people, high troop morale)
 * Population - 25
 * Allies - 16: USA (L) Britain (S) Colombia (S)
 * Recent wars - 0
 * Total - 173

Mexico

 * Location - 5
 * Power - 3 (small land,small air, small naval)
 * Industrial Strength - 1 (Mexico)
 * Development - 10 (1 x 10)
 * Chance - 5
 * Nuclear weapons - 0
 * Motive - 4 (Defending Mexico from US, 2 implausibility citations)
 * Population - 15
 * Allies - 0 (Mexico's government has basically collapsed so..)
 * Recent wars - 0
 * Total - 43

Result
(173/(173+43))*2-1 = 60.1%

(60.1)*(1-1/(2*2))= 45.75%

America can now puppet Mexico, after 2 turns. Not annex, mind, that'd be a little implausible. But Baja California, etc.

Discussion
Can someone please make this for me. I've been trying on my phone, but it doesn't work. Enclavehunter (talk) 03:27, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

Let me- Spartian300.

Thanks for the offer, but I'd prefer that one of the mods do it. Enclavehunter (talk) 14:55, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

I got the scores, I just need someone to do the result - Enclavehunter (talk) 17:50, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

Winter Holiday
Since neither I nor Fed nor a host of others will be here over Christmas, why don't we take a little roman  winter holiday between December 22nd and January 1st.

?

00:28, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

When Will Britain Get Nukes
Essentially the topic, when will Britain get nukes? DS|The Rainbow Machete 18:02, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

Already has. Mulitiple years ago. We got them in 1945.0. Columbia will be ready this turn. Brazil got them a couple of turns ago, secretly. Germany, France, Britain, Japan, Russia, and the USA all got them a LONG time ago. 22:02, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

Korea-Japanese Negotiations
Shall we begin? Here are the terms we the Koreans put on the table.
 * 1) All Japanese troops and workers leave Korea by 1950 at the latest.
 * 2) The Japanese pay reparations for the damage they have done to Korea.
 * 3) The Japanese return historic articles stolen by them in the 1910s.
 * 4) The new Korean government is recognized and admitted into the UN.

As soon as the Japanese agree to these terms all rebel action against them will cease. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 03:26, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

sorry back now.

Japan agrees to withdraw from Korea except for Cheju and islands which will be annexed into japan proper and japan will return certain aritcules however we will not pay reperations until we are sure funds will not go to wards military developmwent, and we will only negotiate with a japanese friendly government. Nkbeeching (talk) 01:28, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

Norway

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 24 (12 turns mil, 12 turns econ) x 3 = 72
 * Chance: 9
 * Nukes: 0
 * Motive: (maintaining polictical hegemony?,) 6
 * Population: 5
 * Allies: Norway (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Total: 106

SADC
Location: +4

Power: x3 to development (Brazil has overwhelming force in the region)

Industrial Strength: +2.6 (Averaged between all)

Development:  Military and Economic: +60 (15 turns of mil and econ) x 3 = 180

Nuclear Weapons: Not Used

Chance:  +1

Motive:  Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 6
 * Modifiers:  Democratic government supported by people: + 4

​Population:  Greater than 50 million +15 (Currently 59.2 million)

Allies: Brazil (L) Argentina(MV) Venezuela(MV) Paraguay(MV) Uruguay(MV) = +22

Recent Wars: -18 (Argentine war with Paraguay) (All nations supplies to various powers during conflicts)

Total: 216.6

Peru
Location: +5

Power: x1

Industrial Strength: +2

Development: +12 mil +6 Econ +0 Infra (He has done little to no actual development its all been military)= 18

Nuclear weapons: N/A

Chance: +2

Motive: +8 (defending hearland from fatal attack +3 (Peru hates Chile) -5 (Low Troops Morale) = +6

Population: +5

Allies: Peru(L) +10

Recent Wars: -8 (war with Chile)

Total: 42

Results
((216.6/(216.6+42))*2-1= 0.67517401392111368909512761020881670

(.67)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 0.5025 = 50.25%

Peru Collapses speedily with little major conflict from the Peruvian armed forces.

Discussion
FYI guys i may have even been a little generous on the scores.. he has literally done next to no development The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

Greece

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +2
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 56 (mil and econ)
 * Nukes: +0
 * Chance: +1
 * Motive: +8  (Pre-Emptive strike,Non democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (8.5 million)
 * Allies: Greece (L), Pontus (LV), Albania (SV) = 19
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Particpation: + 10
 * Result:103

Turkey

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: + 2
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: +6
 * Motive: +12 (Heartland from possible fatal attack and democratic government supported)
 * Population: +7 (less than 30 millions but larger than opponents)
 * Allies: Turkey (L): 10
 * Recent Wars : -4
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 50

Results
(85/(85+54)*2)-1 =0,3464052287581699 =34.64

(34.64)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 25.98 = 26% is gained by Greece

Which added with the previous score of 16% means greece gets 42% enough to topple the turkish government

This map shows the final division of Turkey after taken over in 2 years. In the North coloured in yellow the Pontic-Trebizond Kingdom. In the south the Cilician Republic in Red, In the east the Republic of Northern Kurdistan in green, and in the center the Republic of Konya unique succesor of the Turkish Republic all becoming vassals of Greece. and the territories shown in greek color being annexed by the Kingdom of Greece.

This whole Britain Nuke thing...
Alright, to start off, Guns, the things you guessed wrong were wrong. They are as follows: Also, given that I knew that this invasion would cause so much contention, I have asked other mods in the game that are unbiased towards the results (namely Fed and Imp, and I think a few others) if this invasion would be plausible. Fed agreed with the plausiblity on chat, and I don't know what the others will say. Scraw was going to be one of those mods, but since he has now joined in, he can't be.
 * One, no one has the technology to put nuclear bombs on missiles. It just cannot be done yet. So if the Germans can't do it, who have the best rocket scientists in the world, then you can't do it either.
 * 1) Germany has the best air defences in the world, which I can go into later. But either way, it is not likely that you can get your bombs into the heartland of any of our countries. This can be explained further, if need be.

Let the discussion begin. The first mention of PM3 in here, or any other map game for that matter, will tick me off and hurt the person that said it, as this is strictly an AvA matter. Begin.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:10, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

Oh hello!

Well, the main focal point for the troops would most definately be Germany - which along with the Soviets I would think would be the major players behind the invasion. Brazil would actually be seriously bogged down in the Falklands - imagine Gibralter but enlargened - you get the Falklands. However, they would be able to enact a blockade and starve them out too. But the problem with my explination may be I declared support and I plan to wipe out the British in Australia - the Brits can run, but they can't hide. I don't know if you guys would approve though - just read my post lol.

As for the matter of Brits dropping nukes, its actually pretty possible. Imagine they send huge numbers of fighters protecting their bombers? Plus, the element of shock will be present too - its the 50s and if without any provocation the Brits decide to attack the folks manning the radar stations would think it might be a malfunction in the machine - remember 1983 yeah? As soon as the first aircraft are sighted by eye, you have a huge scamble by Germany. They ready their guns and aircraft but the surprise would be pretty big on the German armed forces. The British will probably attack at a time when the Germans are most lax - like nightime, so that their chances are increased. But in the process of the attack, they will lose a heck load of fighters (50%+). They may even lose a couple bombers but they will hit a lot of their targets in the process. But not all, even half would be pretty good for the Brits. The capital would most defo not be hit - they will probably be most on guard around the city and it would be able to ready its fighters and put them to the air with ample time as Berlin is in the east of Germany.

As for bombs on misslies - I am not too sure if it is not possible. ICBMs were created in the late 50s/early 60s if I am not mistaken, and those which needed to cover shorter distances even earlier. It just depends on what conditions were in game and if the rates of development was faster thaqn OTL. For India, for example, the nation is now a huge industrial nation which it might not even be now in OTL because of the civil war and forced labour.

So yeah, my thoughts. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:45, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

Terms of the British surrender.
Here are the Irish Terms for the surrender of Britain:

Any nation may request that new terms be added.
 * 1) Ireland, Wales, Scotland, the Isle of Man and the Falklands shall be merged as the Celtic Union.
 * 2) East Anglia and Northumbria shall be occupied by the Celtic Union. Wessex shall be occupied by Germany. What remains shall be divided into two seperate Vassals of South England and North England, with Germany and The Celtic Union controling one each.
 * 3) 3/4 of all Britain's navy shall be given to the Celtic Union. 1/3 of Britain Nukes shall be given to the Celtic Union, 1/3 shall be given to Germany, and 1/3 shall be given to the USSR.
 * 4) Henceforth, Australia shall pay the Axis over 900,000 pounds a year.
 * 5) Australia's army shall only have 300,000 men at any given time.
 * 6) New Zealand shall become two Vassal of the Celtic Union and Germany. The North shall become a Vassal of the Celtic Union. The South shall become a Vassal of Germany.
 * 7) Greenland goes to Norway as part of their country.

Britain nuked the shit out of the troops attacking it, not getting any cities of course, got nuked back, and anyway is in nuclear ruins, so all well that ends well and you can have whatever's left :D

That is ridiculously ASB.

The USSR does not agree with any of these points at all except the first, sans the Falklands.

Norway will be getting Greenland. Plus Australia could have maybe more of a bigger army 300,000 is kinda small. How about 1 million.

23:19, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

We want to puinish Britain and their damned Commonwealth. I stand by the terms. Howevr, we shall no longer own the nukes

we shall have the bomb project and it's scientists.

1.The Falklands and south sandwhich and south Georgia are now legitimate territories of Argentina, thats a no go.

2. No nukes and the majority of that navy is going to India to bolster her own, and to replace some of Brazils naval losses.

3. Australia can field whatever she pleases now that shes a fully independent nation that did not help the British during the conflict

4. New Zealand is the same as Australia she can do what she damn well pleases now.

5. Greenland i believe will be norways cause she invaded it (to my knowledge)

6. the Celtic union will be ireland, scotland and a small bit of northern england that is it. the Rest will be determined between soviet and German occupation.

The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

Look, guys, all I want to say is that all of Britain's around 15 nukes were used in it's ultimately futile defense.

Also I want a pancake.

00:00, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

Switzerland protests Ireland's format as unreasonably harsh on nations that were not involved in a war, and on the people. Daeseunglim (talk) 00:04, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

No really, where's my pancake?

00:09, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

This is what will happen for the treaty. If you don't like it, try and stop me. "<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:35, January 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Germany will occupy England in perpetuity until a stable government can be established. Ireland shall occupy Man and Wales, which will be directly annexed to form the Celtic Union. Germany and the Celtic Union shall jointly occupy Cornwall and Scotland until these areas are stable, in which case they will be turned over to the Celtic Union.
 * 2) Argentina will be rewarded with the Falkland Islands, the South Georgia Islands, and the South Sandwich Islands, and any ships therein.
 * 3) The Channel Islands will go to France because why the hell not. Canada will more or less be independent. Australia and New Zealand will be left alone because we can't really do anything about it. Greenland will go to Norway.
 * 4) The Celtic Union shall receive a portion of Britain's former undestroyed air force and navy, as well as all information and material related to the British Atomic Bomb Project. Anything else will be split between the Axis powers and India.
 * 5) The colonies of the British will be governed by Axis powers until the schedualed independence date.

The USSR (pre civil war) supports the Germans. Furthermore, the territories of Bermuda, the Bahamas, Jamaica, and the British Antilles shall go to the United States, with the exception of Trinidad and Tobago, which shall go to Venezuela. Also, Belize shall go to American Mexico. Singapore, Malaysia, and British Borneo to Japan; Sri Lanka and the Maldives to India; Crete to Greece, and Palestine and Kuwait to Saudi Arabia. Germany shall receive British New Guinea. The division of occupation of colonies in Africa shall be left to Germany and the USSR.

00:56, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

Brazil has already taken control and established an independent government in Jamaica and the British Antilles. That term will not be acceptable as we have already serized respective possessions.

~F

No, actually, where's my pancake.

~G

Somewhere under that lake of Canadian Vermontese maple syrup.

~H

Cyprus and not crete is under british control Just saying

~S

MAPLE SYRUP!

I wanted whipped cream... -.- I WANT MY PANCAKE!

01:56, January 4, 2014 (UTC)

The Celtic Hostage Crisis.
Well, I see that the Federation is being an ass. I mean, I try to make an embassy in them, and this is the thanks? As the Celtic Union, I plead with the United Nations to make Brazil release the Hostages. Please, this is serious. In the countries I'm influencing, I'm trying to turn them into democratic capitalist nations. So, please help me. I give my word to make sure that these nations are made capitalist democracies.

Spartian

Three things.

A) Not the place for it, post it on the UN page.

B) Is Spartian a misspelling of Spartan?

C) Cos if so, you're a disgrace. Spartans never whined!

23:28, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Dude, were is the UN page?Spartian300 (talk) 23:33, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Here:http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_(Axis_vs_Allies_R-word_Map_Game). Edgeofnight (talk) 23:41, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Spartian, stop being an implausible little shit.

23:59, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Also, it's  WHERE, not 'were'. *sigh*

00:05, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Algo for invasion of Britian.
Was one ever done? Just curious to know What is this????Is this a signature??? (talk) 02:57, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

No it was not. I basically acknowleged that I would lose, and then we went nuclear. An algo might have led to an... ahh... implausible outcome. The Brit nukes were used against the Axis troops, the Axis sent more troops and nuked the Brits, the Brits lost. This is known.

Yes, EDGE, that is a signature, xDD.

Every Silver Lining Has a Cloud (And Here I Am!)

Axis :
Location:+3

Power: +9

Industry:+5

Development:+62

Chance: +1

Motive:+ 2 (economic, 4 implauisblilty citations,govt support high morale)

Population:+10

Allies:Celtic Union (L) Scandanavia (LV) Germany (L): 29

Result: 65    121

​Norway
Location: +5

Power:+5

Industry:+2

Development:+36

Chance:+3

Motive:+(Defending Homeland, democratic support): 10

Population:+5

Allies:Norway (L) = 10

Result:76

Result:
Guns the algo mod's result:

(78/(78+58))*2-1 = 14.8%

(14.8)*(1-1/(2*1))= 7.4%

The Celts are absolutely smashed in the battle, and lose all the islands (like the Shetlands and Orkneys) that they control. Not any part of their mainland, though, cos that is BS.

The Norwegians kick up a stirring defense, toss out the Scandans and the Celts, and annex part of Northern Scandanavia, as well as one or two Scottish Isles.

(121/(121+76))*2-1 = 22.8%

(22.8)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 19% dead.

Anyway, Norway loses 19% of it's land, withdraws out of the islands and out of Sweden, and is- well, if not annexed, basically a German vassal now.

Oct, I thought you left the wiki?

Discussion
Celtic forces establish a beachhead after a bloody battle.

'''Celtic Union forces are beat back after a bloody batte. '''

'''For future notice, India can not reach you currently and never agreed to be your ally or help you, The Germans never agreed to help you so your invasion failed. -Feud'''

'''Me, Imp, and MP all agreed to invade Norway. Well, they agreed to support me. Spartian300 (talk) 20:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)'''

'''Your contradicting a mod, and even with German support you still dont win.... India cant reach/has not posted, please do not revert a mod decision... As it stands you lost, and no agreements on Chat are every true for a game. The Agreement you have on chat is not binding and does not carry over whatsoever to the game. Unless they agreed to send supplies and the invasion in their turn then they officially dont have to do jack. Stop your nonsense right now -Feud'''

The Algo mod has arrived!

'''I'm taking Feud's word (On the support from MP) and fixing this up cos DAMN. '''

Guns, who still has some use here :D

Thank you Guns -Feud

'''Oct has stupidly decided to help. And no problem Feud :D'''

--Guns

'''WOw guns i am mps vassal and hgermany did help, 2 against one. ~Oct'''

'''I do in fact support Scandinavia's invasion. It was supposed to be led by Scandinavia, not the Celts...'''

'''As a result of not waiting for Scandinavia and Germany, Germany and Scandinavia will be taking on a leading role in the invasion, starting now. Germany, Scandinavia, and the Netherlands should be enough to force a surrender, and the Celts may help however they damn please, to a degree.'''

Carry on.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:16, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

'''What the hell are my inplauisibility citations? Spartian300 (talk) 18:21, January 10, 2014 (UTC)'''

'''Umm... seriously? I'm not even going to answer that. But you're right, my estimate was wrong- it's actually four. :D Guns'''

French Union:
Location: +2

Power: +9

Industry: +4

Development: +108 (12 turns econ, 12 turns mil, multiplier 9)

Nuclear Weaponry: +31

Chance: +6

Motive: +16 (Political hegemony/Democratic Govt Support/ High Troop Morale)

Population: +22

Allies: French Union (L) Federation of Americas (M): +15

Result: +213

Celtic Union:
Location: +5

Power: +3

Industry: +5

Development: +36 (12 econ, 12 mil, 3 mult)

Chance: +2

Motive: -4 (Life or Death/ 4 Implausibility Citations/No Govt Support)

Population: +5

Recent Wars: -8

Allies: Celtic Union: +10

Result: +54

Result:
(213/(213+54))*2-1 = 59.5%

(59.5)*(1-1/(2*2) = 44.3%

After a single year the Celtic Union is obliterated by French Forces. It takes two for the full anexxation of the Isles.

Discussion:
I have had Feud look over the algo already for those who are interested. Hailstormer (talk) 00:57, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, what are my implausible citations already? Spar

Spar, you have so many it ain't even funny.

Hail, I AM THE ALGO MOD!!!

You got a lot of this wrong. Sorry. Development is now multiplied by power.

About Spartian And The CU
He can't just kill the prince of Norway after he looses all of his land. - Shadow

Don't worry I have removed his turn as he has no right to post as one of my nations. The Prince is fine. Hailstormer (talk) 16:01, January 11, 2014 (UTC

I will get that Prince... but, still, What are my implausible citations? ~Spar

Oh my god... How about the time you invaded Britain, during WWII? Your entire- and fortunately short- reign in Mexico? Your unneeded civil war? The list goes on. You know, we actually considered kicking you out of the game? If MP and I hadn't argued that we shouldn't, you would have been kicked for implausibility. You have been the source of endless implausogasms. And now Cour has annexxed you.

20:11, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Make that Hail.

21:59, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

I new to all this. Also, Mexico was already in a state of civil war. Just let me be the Vatican City. We all know. I have around a 100 strong military if im the Vatican.Spartian300 (talk) 23:03, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

ASF (Saudi Arabia)
Location:+4

Power:+4

Industrial Strength:+1

Devlopment: 14 millitary, 7 economy 14+7=21x2=84

Nukes:0

Chance; 2

Motive: Economic (+2),  Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation ,(+ 4),  Non-democratic Government supported by people (+ 3)= 9

Population +5

Allies: Saudi Arabia (L) North Yemen (MV) Palestine (MV) Kuwait (MV)= 19

Recent Wars:0

Total:119

South Yemen
Location:5

Power: +3

Industrial Strength: 1

Devlopment:0

Nukes: 0

Chance:5

Motive: +8

Population: +7

Allies: South Yemen (L)

Recent Wars 0

Total: 28

Result.
(119/(119+28))*2-1 = 61.7%

(61.7)*(1-1/(2*2) = 46.3%

Arabia annexes em.

Disscusion: I proably screwed this up royaly, but I got the groundwork down.What is this????Is this a signature??? (talk) 20:13, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

No, actually, it's almost entirely right, haha. Just your result, your location, and your power needed fixing. ~Guns

Spartian
Ok, I've had it with Spartian.

I may not play anymore (actually, I was thinking of taking a tiny, tiny little nation that no one could annex -.-), but I do read the posts, I do cross out implauisbilities, and I do edit your god-awful algos, so I do believe I've retained my right to modship.

Now Spartian has lately- well, if not vandalized, then certainly mucked up the UN page, with a resolution from a nation he does not control. I mean, off the bat- he doesn't control the vatican, and yet he's posting as it, and even if he did, it would not have been in the method he attempted to post as.

Now, we've all had this conversation before, about kicking Spartian- where Local actually did so and MP and I argued that he should be given a second chance- well we've given him numerous chances, and he remains unable to read the rules or be plauisble.

For the above reasons, I would like to kick him from the game.

It's the perfect time, since Cour (thank you) has just invaded and annexed the Isles, or what's left of them, haha. (I presume the CU controlled what's left of the Isles, because Germany controlling them is a wee bit ASB). So at this point, we just don't let him pick another.

What say ye mods?

21:23, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Also, Hailstormer hs taken over France.

21:24, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Is there anyone I can play as. I'm bored of Europe. I want somewhere I can invade stuff from.

Oh. Well then.

Thank you Hail!

21:58, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Guys..... I have no idea what qualifys as plausible. Im retraed. Explain it to me. I mean, i would do better as the Vatican. I know what i can and can't do with them. In fact, i should have started off as the Vatican. Would saved us a lot of trouble. Spartian300 (talk) 23:00, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Shoulda Coulda Woulda. Enough second chances. Go play PMIII.

23:01, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

You do realize for a first time offense, the ban is not permentant, right?

That's just now how we do things, but I agree, he should not vandalize pages, but if he has gone to the Vatican, then by all means.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:18, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

First time offense my ass. This is his fourth or fifth offense. He should have gotten a 3 day ban at least, earlier, but because they always occurred in times of- ahh- crisis, we never gave him such. Still, this is way too far. Vandalism, massive implausibility despite repeat warning, inability or unwillingness to ascribe to the rules... I mean, first his shenanigans in Ireland in WWII, then the whole problem with Mexico, now this... he's currently without a nation; I say let him stay that way.

BTW would anyone have any annexatory impulses towards Ghana? I want to recreate the Songhai empire on a smaller scale.

23:38, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Can I play as the British Resistance? Or not? Local Mafia Boss (Talk) (Blog) 11:46, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

What resistance? They're either nuked or now under friendly control....

18:05, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

OK then

Algo questions.
I was wondering when the recent wars penalty fades for algos?

And also how do you move up in industry strength? What is this????Is this a signature??? (talk) 02:25, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

Recent wars fade after 15 turns, or 7.5 years.

You can move up in industry strength after years of development. I don't think we have a set level of years needed to advance industry, but it would make sense that lower levels of development are easier to raise, I would think.

If you tell me what industry you are, and how many turns you have been developing, I can give you an estimate.

Monster Pumpkin

I'm +1 and ive been devloping for about 5 years.What is this????Is this a signature??? (talk) 03:12, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

You should be a level two by this point, or at least in the very near future. Sorry, Edge, what nation are you?

22:12, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia and it's bloc.What is this????Is this a signature??? (talk) 02:08, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

CU/British isles discussion (moved from game page)
'''For what possible reason would this take place? I have freed them both from a tyrannical government, I have allowed them to form their own states, and I have allowed free and democratic elections to be held. All the French Union is doing is administering them so that they can recover from years of bad rule, as well as war. As well as this, I also funded all the rebel groups within both states for years, so who exactly is supposed to be rebelling against me? Hailstormer (talk) 03:14, January 13, 2014 (UTC)'''

'''I am inclined to agree. Hope off he is fine. '''

'''It is ridiculously implausible. That any British nation would be subordinate to France is ridiculous.'''

'''Um you realize that most countries of the OTL never believed they would be subordinate to their former colonies and for 60 years the US outright dominated European politics and forced decolonization essentially. If that can be pulled off starting the 50's then the British can be subordinate to a French nation. Not to mention the fact France who in a sense has liberated England and Scotland and wiped out the idiotic irish would be heroes. Your overstepping some boundaries here for a player who has gone into drastic detail, and has followed rules to the letter. He is entitled to his puppets just as you, me and MP are not to mention in OTL the French proposed a Union between the UK and France and while rejected in favor of France joining the Commonwealth this is literally the exact reverse when all three successor states are in a much worse off position than france who is being relatively nice and benevolent here. Me Guns and MP all agree that your overstepping here -Feud'''

'''I will point out that of the nations currently occupying those lands, France is probably the least cruel and what not. Germany invaded them, Ireland/Celtic Union occupied them, and now the French are coming in to ensure that they become free. So while there would be rebellions, principally in Ireland on the basis of still-lingering CU resistance, it would not be as widespread as you claim. -MP'''

liberation of italian Noth Africa
Italy

Egypt