Talk:Principia Moderni IV (Map Game)

Archives: to 10/27/16 ● to 12/22/16 =Algorithms=

Algorithms—the hard part of map games. This is where all of them are placed. It is mandatory to follow all the rules and strictly follow the procedure, rules, and computation of an algorithm, both of which can be seen here. You can see every algorithm below.

It's vital that you use exactly this format when writing or computing an algorithm, as it helps organization tremendously.

Formatting
Name of War (Years of War) [Use Heading 2]

Front Name [Only use this if there is more front in the war] [Heading 3]


 * Year
 * Pre-War Stage
 * Side I Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Population:
 * War Exhaustion:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Government:
 * Side II Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Population:
 * War Exhaustion:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Government:
 * Battle Stage
 * (Battle or Siege Name)
 * Side I Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Army/Navy Size:
 * Location:
 * Great General:
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition:
 * Side II Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Army/Navy Size:
 * Location:
 * Great General:
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Side I Name
 * Cities Occupied:
 * Result:
 * Side I Name
 * Cities Occupied:
 * Result:
 * Overall Result:

Discussion [Heading 3]

Delhi-Bengal War (1560-1563 )
Note to Mods- This is my first time making an algo. There may be mistakes. I dont know what part I have to write and what the mods have to decide. Thanks.Dev271 (talk) 10:24, January 2, 2017 (UTC)

The max of Bengal and its vassals is 300,000 (taking population to be 30 million(25 is of Bengal itself)) while the max of the Delhi Raj and its vassals is 750,000 (taking population to be 50 million and as non-feudal nations, approved by Scraw). So I take the army to be 700,000 during war time of which 100,000 is of the Rajput Confederacy. Now of this 450,000 are on the Bengal and Ahom border. The rest 250,000 are on the borders with other nations. The Bengal-Ahom border is divided into three fronts (Southern Bengal, Northern Bengal and Ahom fronts). 100,000 are on the Northern Bengal front which will have most Bengali troops because Gaur lies on this front. 100,000 are on the Ahom front and 250,000 are on the southern Bengal front. The army on the Ahom front consists of 50,000 Gorkha and Dogri mercenaries (1-3, the best mercenaries I guess). Marlborough is inactive so this is what I think-

Of the 300,000 troops, they can’t have all of them on the border with Delhi. Max they can have here is 250,000 men. Now if they have 250,000 men, 100,000-150,000 will be on the Northern Bengal front, 50,000 will be on the Ahom front and 50,000-100,000 will be on the southern Bengal front.

125,000 troops from the other borders have come to the Southern Bengal front.

Kalinga-Southern Bengal Front

 * Pre War Stage
 * Delhi Raj (Attacking)- 235
 * Population- 200
 * Government- 5
 * Economy- 15
 * Technology- 15
 * Bengal Sultanate (Defending)- 267 
 * ​Population- 240 (30 million Bengal and 30 million Caliphate)
 * Government- 7
 * Economy- 10
 * Technology- 10
 * War Stage
 * Battle of Simlipal 1560
 * Delhi Raj: 74
 * ​Troops 75
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder  -3
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 22.5
 * ​Troops 22.5
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -2
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Delhi has a narrow victory. Both sides lose 5% and Bengal moves back.
 * ​Delhi Score 309
 * Bengal Score 169.5
 * Battle Tier 181.92%
 * Battle of Bankura 1561 (125,000 troops come in from other borders, now a total of 375,000)
 * Delhi Raj: 114.5
 * ​Troops 112.5
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder 0
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 19.5
 * ​Troops 22.5
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder  -5
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Delhi Victory. Bengali forces lose 15% while Delhi forces lose 10%. Bengali forces retreat.
 * ​Delhi Score 349.5
 * Bengal Score 166.5
 * Battle Tier 209.9%
 * Siege of Saptgram 1562
 * Delhi Raj: 116.5
 * ​Troops 112.5
 * Location +4
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 49
 * ​Troops 45 (75,000 Bengal, 75,000 Abbasids)
 * Location +4
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: 
 * ​Delhi Score 347.5*0.85 (2-1 Siege penalty) = 298.77
 * Bengal/Abbasid Score 196
 * Battle Tier 152%

Magadh-Northern Bengal Front

 * Pre War Stage
 * Delhi Raj (Attacking)- 235
 * Population- 200
 * Government- 5
 * Economy- 15
 * Technology- 15
 * Bengal Sultanate (Defending)- 147
 * ​Population- 120
 * Government- 7
 * Economy- 10
 * Technology- 10
 * War Stage
 * Battle of Kharagdih 1560
 * Delhi Raj: 29
 * ​Troops 30
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -3
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 37.5
 * ​Troops 37.5
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -2
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Narrow Dehlavi Victory. Bengali forces retreat. Both sides lose 5%.
 * ​Delhi Score 264
 * Bengal Score 184.5
 * Battle Tier 143%
 * Battle of Alamngaro 1561
 * Delhi Raj: 29
 * ​Troops 30
 * Location +4
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -5
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 34.5
 * ​Troops 37.5
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder  -5
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Narrow Dehlavi Victory. Bengali forces retreat. Both sides lose 5%.
 * ​Delhi Score 264
 * Bengal Score 181.5
 * Battle Tier 144%
 * Battle of  Dumka 1562
 * Delhi Raj: 32
 * ​Troops 30
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 62.6
 * ​Troops 60.6 (100,000 Bengal and 102,000 Abbasids)
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Narrow Bengali Victory. Bengali forces retreat. Both sides lose 5%.
 * ​Delhi Score 267
 * Bengal Score 329.6*1.35 (multi-continent empire) * 0.6 (region penalty) = 313.12
 * Battle Tier 117.27%

Nepal-Ahom Front
'''This front has now been closed. Ahom is under Delhi occupation. There are no problems because more than 95% of the population is Hindu or Buddhist. All forces from this front are now attacking Bengal.'''
 * Pre War Stage
 * Delhi Raj (Attacking)- 235
 * Population- 200
 * Government- 5
 * Economy- 15
 * Technology- 15
 * Ahom Kingdom (Defending)- 21
 * Population- 4
 * Government- 7
 * Economy- 5
 * Technology- 5
 * War Stage
 * Battle of Siliguri 1560
 * Delhi Raj: 34.75
 * ​Troops 33.75
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -1
 * Attrition 0
 * Ahom Kingdom: 17
 * ​Troops 15
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -2
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Crushing defeat to the Ahom forces. Ahom forces lose 60% manpower which is replenished. Ahoms retreat.
 * ​Delhi Score 269.75
 * Ahom Score 38
 * Battle Tier 676%
 * Battle of Hajo 1561
 * Delhi Raj: 33.75
 * ​Troops 33.75
 * Location +1
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -1
 * Attrition 0
 * Ahom Kingdom: 15
 * ​Troops 15
 * Location +1
 * Great General No
 * Blunder -1
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Ahom forces defeated. Ahom forces lose 70% manpower. Ahoms retreat.
 * ​Delhi Score 268.75
 * Ahom Score 36
 * Battle Tier 729%
 * Siege of Sivasagar 1562
 * Delhi Raj: 41.75
 * ​Troops 33.75
 * Location +8
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Ahom Kingdom: 27
 * ​Troops 15
 * Location +12
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Battle Tier 3. The siege of Sivasagar ends. All Ahom forces are wiped out. Ahom surrenders while Delhi forces lose 5%.
 * ​Delhi Score 276.75
 * Ahom Score 48
 * Battle Tier 576.56%

Kamrup-North Eastern Bengal Front

 * Pre War Stage
 * Delhi Raj (Attacking)- 235
 * Population- 200
 * Government- 5
 * Economy- 15
 * Technology- 15
 * Bengal Sultanate (Defending)- 147
 * ​Population- 120
 * Government- 7
 * Economy- 10
 * Technology- 10
 * War Stage 
 * Battle of Moulvibazar 1562 (25,000 troops came here from the Northern Bengal front and 25,500 Abbasid troops came to help Bengal)
 * Delhi Raj: 32
 * ​Troops 30
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Bengal Sultanate: 17.15
 * ​Troops 15.15 (25,000 Bengal and 25,500 Abbasid)
 * Location +2
 * Great General No
 * Blunder
 * Attrition 0
 * Result: Delhi has a narrow victory. Both sides lose 5%.
 * ​Delhi Score 267
 * Bengal Score 162.15
 * Battle Tier 203%

Discussion
Dev - I really must complement your aglo-making skills! For your first one, you've definitely got a handle on this better than some of the veterens of the wiki. Unfortunately, for the sake of plausibility my nation had to intervene, but with this beginning I expect great things in your future Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  05:13, January 5, 2017 (UTC)

Yalu front (1561)

 * Pre-war stage
 * Korea (attacking)
 * Result – +65.5
 * Location – +0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +42 (10.5 million)
 * Government – +7
 * Economy – +6.5 (Tier IV)
 * Technology – +10 (Tier III)
 * Manchuria (defending)
 * Result – +16
 * Location – +0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +4 (1 million at most)
 * Government – +5
 * Economy – +2 (Tier I)
 * Technology – +5 (Tier I)


 * Battle stage
 * Korea (attacking)
 * Result – +9.1
 * Troops – +15 (50,000)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -4
 * Attrition – -30% (Moderate winter, contested mountain passing)
 * Manchuria (defending)
 * Result – +2
 * Troops – +3 (10,000)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -3


 * Casualties
 * Korea (victors)
 * 50,000 * (100 - 0.02) = 49,000 survivors
 * Manchuria (losers)
 * 10,000 * (100 - 0.75) = 2,500 survivors

Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:52, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Final stage
 * Korea – 65.5 (-0) = +65.5
 * Manchuria – 16 (-7.1) = +8.9
 * 736% in favour of Korea (Battle Tier III)


 * Discussion

Yalu front (1562); needs approval

 * Pre-war stage
 * Korea (attacking)
 * Result – +65.5
 * Location – +0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +42 (10.5 million)
 * Government – +7
 * Economy – +6.5 (Tier IV)
 * Technology – +10 (Tier III)
 * Manchuria (defending)
 * Result – +16
 * Location – +0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +4 (1 million at most)
 * Government – +5
 * Economy – +2 (Tier I)
 * Technology – +5 (Tier I)


 * Battle stage
 * Korea (attacking)
 * Result – +9.3
 * Troops – +14.7 (48,000)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -5
 * Attrition – -25% (light moderate winter; contested mountain passing)
 * Result – +1
 * Troops – +0.75 (2,500)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -4


 * Casualties
 * Korea
 * 49,000 * (100 - 0.02) = 48,020 survivors
 * Manchuria (losers)
 * 2,500 * (100 - 0.75) = 625 survivors


 * Final stage
 * Korea (victors)
 * 65.5 = 65.5
 * Manchuria (losers)
 * 16 - (9.3 - 1) = 7.7
 * 851% in favour of Korea (Battle Tier III)

Manchuria is fully occupied.

1566

 * Pre-war stage
 * Russia (attacking)
 * Result – +61
 * Location – 0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +40 (10 million)
 * Government – +6 (Absolute feudal monarchy)
 * Economy – +5 (Tier III)
 * Technology – +7 (Tier II)
 * Livonia/Teutonic Order (defending)
 * Result – +17.9
 * Location – 0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +2.4 (600,000)
 * Government – +5 (Theocracy?)
 * Economy – +3.5 (Tier II)
 * Technology – +7 (Tier II)


 * Battle-stage
 * Russia
 * Result – +3.15
 * Troops – +21 (70,000)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -2
 * Attrition – 0% (heavy winter)
 * Livonia/Teutonic Order
 * Result –+2
 * Troops – +3 (9,000; at most)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -3


 * Casualties
 * Russia
 * 70,000 * 0.94 = 65,800 survivors
 * Livonia
 * 9,000 * 0.7 = 6,300 survivors


 * Final-stage
 * Russia
 * +61
 * Livonia/Teutonic Order
 * 17.9 - (3.15 - 2) = +16.75
 * 364.2% in favour of Russia (Battle Tier II)

1568 (since bel didn't do his part in the partition I see its fair at this point)

 * Russia (attacking)
 * Result – +61
 * Location – 0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +40 (10 million)
 * Government – +6 (Absolute feudal monarchy)
 * Economy – +5 (Tier III)
 * Technology – +7 (Tier II)
 * Livonia/Teutonic Order (defending)
 * Result – +17.9
 * Location – 0% change (zero penalties)
 * Population – +2.4 (600,000)
 * Government – +5 (Theocracy?)
 * Economy – +3.5 (Tier II)
 * Technology – +7 (Tier II)


 * Battle-stage
 * Russia
 * Result – +3.15
 * Troops – +21 (70,000)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -2
 * Attrition – 0% (heavy winter)
 * Livonia/Teutonic Order
 * Result –+2
 * Troops – +3 (9,000; at most)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder – -3


 * Casualties
 * Russia
 * 70,000 * 0.94 = 65,800 survivors
 * Livonia
 * 9,000 * 0.7 = 6,300 survivors

Livonia overrun by Russian army
 * Final-stage
 * Russia
 * +61
 * Livonia/Teutonic Order
 * 17.9 - (3.15 - 2) = +16.75
 * 364.2% in favour of Russia (Battle Tier II)

Russia wins decisively and takes a decent chunk of Livonia's territory (Livonia still survives though)

'''Livonia doesnt get the heavy winter attrition bonus they arent large enough for that to be a thing -Feud. '''

'''On another note a second algo needed to be done but can be literally copy pasted. With a copy paste in order, the Livonians do not have a military.. the war would end decisively in favor of Russia. -Feud'''

Russo-Turkic War (1568-
1568
 * Pre-war stage
 * Kiev + Russia
 * Result – +67
 * Population – +48 (10 million Russia + 2 million Kiev)
 * Government – +6 (Absolute feudal monarchy)
 * Economy – +5 (Tier III)
 * Technology – +7 (Tier II)
 * Crimea + Ottomans + Abbasids (defending)
 * Result – +397
 * Population – +384 (38 million Abbasids, 7 million Ottomans, 2 million Crimea)
 * Government – +5 (Warlord)
 * Economy – +3 (Tier I)
 * Technology – +5 (Tier II)


 * Battle-stage
 * Russia/Kiev
 * Result – +74 (being very generous below)
 * Troops – +72 (102,000 Russia, 34,000 Kiev)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder –
 * Attrition –
 * Abbasid/Ottoman/Crimea
 * Result –+125.84 (40,000 Crimea, 140,000 Ottoman, 230,000 Abbasid)
 * Troops – 123.84
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder –


 * Casualties
 * Turks
 * 410,000 * 0.02 = 8,200
 * Slavs
 * 136,000 * 0.75 = 102,000

'''Crushing victory for Crimea. The Kievan forces are completely wiped out, while the Russian forces are mostly forced to retreat. '''
 * Final-stage
 * Russia/Kiev
 * +67 + 72 = 141
 * Abbasid/Ottoman/Crimea
 * 297+125.84 = 522.84 *1.35 (mutli-continent empire) = +705.83
 * 500.95% in favour of the Turks (Battle Tier III)

I didn't put in any location penalty because Russia's core is the same distance from Crimea as the Abbasid's core (according to the location penalty map). Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  03:41, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

Your severely overestimating the troops fielded by the Ottomans and the Crimeans. The Ottomans are ON RECORD fielding 50-60,000 max in the Trebizond-Ottoman War. Also multi-continental empire does not add to your score. It only negates continental disadvantage from the Debuffs. So if people have been doing this in algos it is blatantly wrong (i know i wrote the damn thing). Also your fulling ignoring you have to cross a Sea zone to reach crimea. Automatic debuff for the Abbasids. You do not have a direct land connection so your population is immediately down -35% for the ottomans and the Abbasids are down themselves 20% due to crossing the black sea which when you dont have a land connection is considered a sea zone as well a -35% since you do not have physical territory yourself in Europe at least in enough of a physical sense to warrant taking away the penalty from you and in all senses Vassals do not count. On top of this if you continue past crimea into the Caucasus or into the core territories of Kiev your suffering another 20% debuff. If you had any questions about this you should have asked me cause this algo is very wrong.

I asked all my questions the first algos I made. If I was doing it wrong you should have been more clear or corrected things early on. I goy the max militaries from the military calulation in the algo. If bozi in earlier wars didn't understand what his max military was, that's not my problem. The location map doesn't list the Black Sea as a sea zone as it is designated by a number and not a letter. According to the location map, both Russia and the Middle East border the region where Crimea is. The algo never says that Multi-Continental empire only counts in certain situations, nor does it say where it can be used. I understood it to include colonies of colonial empires, as Crimea is an Ottoman colony. Of course, I conceed to your corrections as you wrote the algo, but all Im saying is everything about it is so vague and seems to change based on whether your ally is in danger. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  19:19, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

Correct algo as done by the guy who made the algo

 * Kiev + Russia
 * Result – +74
 * Population – +48 (10 million Russia + 2 million Kiev)
 * Government – +6 (Absolute feudal monarchy)
 * Economy – +10 (Tier III Russia leading)
 * Technology – +10 (Tier III Russia leading)
 * Crimea + Ottomans + Abbasids (defending)
 * Result – +127
 * Population – +92 (18 million Abbasids (55% debuff), 3.15 million (after 55% debuff) Ottomans, 2 million Crimea)
 * Government – +5 (Warlord)
 * Economy – +15 (Tier IIII)
 * Technology – +15 (Tier IIII)


 * Battle-stage
 * Russia/Kiev
 * Result – +42.8 (being very generous below)
 * Troops – 40.8 (102,000 Russia, 34,000 Kiev)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder –
 * Attrition –
 * Abbasid/Ottoman/Crimea
 * Result –+46.1 (
 * Troops: 15,000 Crimea, 52,000 Ottoman, 80,000 Abbasid)
 * Location – +2
 * GG/GL/GA – N/A
 * Blunder –


 * Casualties
 * Turks
 * Slavs


 * Final-stage
 * Russia/Kiev
 * 72 + 42.8 = 114.8
 * Abbasid/Ottoman/Crimea
 * 127+ 42.8 = 169.8
 * This is all ONLY if you are able to come up with a legit way to invade russia without invading Bulgaria first to cut through the straits. -Feud

Scandinavian Involvement in the War of Austrian Succession

 * Pre-war stage
 * Burgundy: 73
 * Population: 32
 * Government: 6
 * Economy: 20
 * Tech: 15
 * Scandinavia: 57
 * Population: 32
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 10
 * Technology: 10
 * Battle Stage
 * Battle of Skagerrak
 * Burgundy
 * Result: 13.5
 * Navy Size: 16.5 (550)
 * Location: 0
 * Attrition:
 * Blunder: -3
 * Scandinavia
 * Result: 5.75
 * Navy size: 6.75 (225)
 * Location: 1
 * Attrition:
 * Blunder: -2

Result: Scandinavian fleet defeated, blockade of the Oresund and Scandinavia as a whole is established.

Suppression of Singapore

 * Pre-War Stage
 * Burgundy: 73
 * Population: 32
 * Government: 6
 * Economy: 20
 * Tech: 15
 * Singapore: 10.04
 * Population: .04
 * Government: 5
 * Economy: 5
 * Tech: 10
 * Battle stage
 * 2nd Battle of Batam
 * Burgundy
 * Result: 6.11
 * Army: 6.61 (15,000, 70 ships)
 * Location: 3.5
 * Attrition: -4
 * Blunder:
 * Singaporean Rebels
 * Result: 1.3
 * Army: .3 (1,000)
 * Location: 4
 * Attrition:
 * Blunder: -3

Final result: Singapore is re-conquered

=Complaints and Upgrades=

Changes to Current Map
'''This is the section where you add expansion, complaints, or changes for the map in the PMIV Map Game. Please make it easy to understand for the mapmaker the expansion that you committed. This means including the name of your nation, and maybe an OTL location, and sometimes a reference map. Note, color requests will not be granted, as we already follow a color scheme.'''

Requested Changes/Errors for Next Version
The Ottoman Empire is a vassal of the Caliphate, and so should be colored the same as Morocco is Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  01:44, January 7, 2017 (UTC) This is the Anangu kingdom developed in Southern Australia, now that its a full nation state. Don't be fooled by its size. It only has a population of 1.9 million, and the majority of that is located around the OTL Adeleid Valley. It is a bronze-age nation with no navy or contact to the outside world. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  04:52, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

This is what I've done to East Africa/Arabia since the last map: Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  14:17, December 26, 2016 (UTC) The following can be found in the Treaty of Madrid map.

Oman has colonized parts of Somalia and captured several ports.

The Sultanate of Maghreb has been independent from the Abbasid Caliphate for a while now. General534 (talk) 08:32, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

For the third time, Pegu is not part of the Sultanate of Bengal! It is part of Ava and should be colored as such.      10:51, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Burgundy has conquered the former Chinese possession of Singapore, and its New England colony (extending from New York to Boston) should be added, as well as Guyanas westward expansion. I am that guy (talk) 20:16, January 2, 2017 (UTC)

Jeju, Ulleungdo, Dokdo, and Haedo (Sakhalin) have revolted from the Chinese and joined Korea. South Manchuria is annexed into Korea. North Manchuria is independent (as a vassal).

Swahili expands after war with Oromo and Oman. Fallacyman (talk)



Burgundy has established a protectorate over Kuala Lampur, with the approval of the Majapahit. I am that guy (talk) 01:41, January 7, 2017 (UTC)

All the changes concerning the Delhi Raj (now Aryavarta)- Integration of the vassals of Kashmir, Himalaya,Marwar and Mewar (Marwar and Mewar were unitef as the Rajput Confederacy/Rajputana Kingdom). Koch and Ahom regions become a part of Delhi and Pegu becomes a Delhi vassal according to the Treaty of Agra. The region I am referring to are in this map (whole of Pegu is not included). Also keep in mind the changes that have taken place in southeast Asia. Dev271 (talk) 06:25, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

Did some stuff tonight, but I couldn't get to all of them. I'll try to get to all of these in the next few days. Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 10:41, January 8, 2017 (UTC)

Maiam has been expanding south along the coast since the last map. Cour *talk* 16:59, January 8, 2017 (UTC)

Scandinavian colonization of the Delaware river, Scandinavian port on puerto rico.

Thanks for adding in all my islands. Here's the border for Manchuria.



The island of Socotra is incorrectly shown as part of Yemen on the map. In reality, it is controlled by Oman. General534 (talk) 18:32, January 9, 2017 (UTC)

Chinese Taiwan has collapsed and has joined Japanese Taiwan. -KawaiiKame

Kuala Lampur, with Majapahits support, has been made a Burgundian protectorate, with the lower half being the Malacca Presidency and the upper half being the Patani Presidency. I am that guy (talk) 18:02, January 14, 2017 (UTC)

Changes Completed/Fixed in Next Version
This section is only for the mapmaker to post which changes were added to the next map, PLEASE DO NOT WRITE YOUR REQUESTS HERE.
 * Kras' thing
 * Burgundian New England
 * Scandinavia (GET HYPE)
 * Scandinavia's stuff
 * Burgundian Singapore
 * Korea's stuff, sans Manchuria (have to ask mods about border)
 * The Caliphate vassalized the Ottomans

Mod Event Complaint
When complaining, please include the year of the event that you are complaining about.

Anangu Kingdom - 1569

 * I'm assuming this has been happening for a while, but I just noticed it in 1569 and the map complaints page. What is this bs with the Anangu Kingdom? A civilization of this size could not, and should not, exist in Australia in the given time period. It especially should not be developing at the rate that the mods are claiming. Cour *talk* 02:53, January 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, plus the population growth rates are grossly exaggerated. It is unlikely for a state to go from a few dozen thousand to approaching two million within a century, and certainly impossible if it is in the pre-industrial age.

Concentrations
The Concentration system is new to Pm4. In this system, nations will either pick a concentration between the Army or the Navy, as no nations, with some extreme exceptions, could afford both at this period in time. How it will work is this:
 * 1) Nations will pick a concentration, assuming they have a choice. Nations that are landlocked can only pick Army, while nations like Genoa or OTL Venice can only pick Navy. You will need to recive mod approval for which ever you pick
 * 2) Your concentration can be officially changed every 30 years, although the mods may change it via event depending on the actions of your nations or wars you get involved in. An example of this would be something along the lines of the Spanish Armada. After a destruction like that, Spain would have to switch from Naval to Army because its prized navy was destroyed. Events like that can and will force changes in your concentraction.
 * 3) Your concentration will give you a 10% boost in the respective algorithim as long as it is changed without mod event.
 * 4) Simply add it to the table below to declare it (Add more rows if needed)
 * 5) If the cell with your concentration is green, that means you are currently getting the bonus. If it is red it was forced to change by a mod event. If it is gray it was never approved in the first place.

EDIT:Since there was some confusion on chat, I will explain. In AP Euro one of the thigns we discussed was what led to the rise of France and England as two of the dominant powers in Europe, and what made the two nations different. One of the things brought up is how even France, which during the rise of nation states, was among the richest and most powerful nations in Europe and the world. However, even they could not afford a powerful army and navy, so they where forced to choose between the two. France picked their army, and England picked their navy. Both nations had capable Armies and Navies, but the French navy was noticably weaker than the English navy and the English army was noticably weaker than the French Army.  This doesn't mean you can't develop both , but at this time, nations focused on one, often at expense of the other.

Explanations of lack of Approval
Feel free to dispute it in a civil manner, and if it gets out of hand you will get a three day game ban.

Colonization and Contact Confirmation
In order for you to colonize or explore another region of the world, you must be confirmed through this process. Message me with any questions or concerns. Add more rows as needed.
 * 1) You must follow all rules laid out in the rules page.
 * 2)  You must show two things to colonize: Capability and Motivation. If you lack one, you can not colonize
 * 3)  Your reasons must be confirmed by 3 mods. Even if you have waited 15 turns for an answer, it does not matter. Pester a mod into giving you a yes or no.
 * 4) Mods can say no. If one of them says no don't try and pretend they ignored it.
 * 5) You can only seek to confirm the nation you play as and nothing more.
 * 6) When seeking confirmation, you want to include the date you would begin colonizing. If you want to do it right away, put the turn of your request.
 * 7) If a mod finds this date to be too early or too late even, they should inform the player as such. Not every nation colonized at once so if you decide to try in jump in right away, even if you have the means and the motive to do so, you may be rejected because of the date.

'''IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY VOTES, IT MEANS YOU CANNOT COLONIZE OR EXPLORE. DO NOT TAKE SILENCE AS APPROVAL.'''

Access for Landlocked polities
Requiring 2/3 approval of mods, which currently means 4 mods.

Augsburg
Mods only
 * Yes
 * No
 * I know you would be able to make tiny ports like OTL Malta or something, but that gets so minor it might as well not even be mentioned Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  00:58, November 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * 22:45, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Deadly State of Mind (talk) 14:15, January 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * Abstain

Tier Upgrade
When requesting an upgrade, use the following format:

*Nation (player) **Current tier and tier you would like to be upgraded to **Provide reasoning **Mod response here

Economic Tier Upgrade

 * The Caliphate
 * Tier 4, trying for Tier 5
 * Tier 4 was the tier for the Caliphate back before the Persian War. Since then, The Caliphate has dominated the Silk Road trade by land, via the Compact of Beyrut, and by sea, via the Arab-Indian Company. Not to mention the exclusive trade deals with Bulgaria and the creation of the Bank of Cairo
 * Mod response: Approved. ~Wolvesmod
 * Norway -- Dream_Helix_Fossil_Sprite.png Praise Helix Welcome my children Tumblr_n1i7boISUv1rvlenbo1_500.gif
 * Tier 3 trying for 4
 * Norway has inherited and now owns sweden a tier 4 economy since we have it is only natural that we now become a tier 4 economy.
 * Mod Response- Approved. ~Wolvesmod
 * Sakha - Shikata ga nai! 02:49, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Upgrade from Tier I to Tier II
 * Because of substantial trade with East Asia, mining activity, development of settled agriculture due to reforms. Also the Yakuts have long had metallurgy and more modern technology, plus greater political organization and technology than most tribes, that facilitate economic development.
 * Mod Response- Approved. ~Wolvesmod

Tech Tier Upgrade

 * Delhi Raj (Dev271 (talk) 10:27, December 31, 2016 (UTC))
 * Unknown (Delhi is not listed). Delhi should be Tier IV.
 * Because of the use of gunpowder, artillery, firearms, communication and postal system from sultanate times, not a feudal nation.
 * Mod Response- Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sakha - Shikata ga nai! 02:47, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Upgrade from Tier I to Tier 2
 * Because of substantial contact with East Asian nations which has resulted in adoption of modern technology to some degree, incentivized by mining and immigration to profit from it. Also the Yakuts have long had metallurgy since before they migrated to Siberia (http://www.geocurrents.info/place/russia-ukraine-and-caucasus/siberia/the-yakut-sakha-migration-to-central-siberia).
 * Mod Response- Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Korea
 * Tier III to Tier IV
 * Korea has independently discovered gunpowder during the late 14th century, and during the same period Korea was one of the first countries to mass-implement the usage of naval artillery. In the 15th century, Korea had the first armoured ship (the "turtleship", though this is the slightly different older model mentioned in the Annals of Joseon), measured meteorology (creating the first Korean rain gauge) for agricultural purposes, and made various astronomical clocks to measure astrology. Not to mention, Korea also uses advanced firearms (such at the matchlock whose blueprints were obtained from Gurkani merchants), and locally-produced gunpowder weapons; all with the access to China, the most advanced national technologically in-game.
 * Mod response – Approved. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 13:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Discussion
=Information and Resources=

Current Map
1540

The New Algo is now Formated(by me)
So, Um, I took the liberty of formating the new algo for wiki. Made some minor syntax/spelling changes (ex. reare -- rare). If I screwed up too much please tell me, but I think that it would be best to give players access to the new algo proto, right?

Some of the things people wrote...lets just say I cleared some things up, wrote some explanations a bit more eloquently. If I screwed up too much, please let me know, and in the case that I did, well, its a good thing that This is not the official algo format then, eh?-Lx (leave me a message) 23:16, October 21, 2016 (UTC)

There will be one algorithm, for every front, every year a war carries on. This carries on until a treaty is signed or total victory is achieved by the victors. There are two stages to every algorithm—the pre-war stage, and the battle stage. The battle stage may be repeated up to six times per year, depending on how large the war is, in population and nation size. It is extremely important to read this page: War Mechanics, as it has more specifics on how the algorithm will work.

Location
Location is Determined by your location relative to your combatant.

The percentage of your population which can count towards the algo will change in relation to the region you’re located in. At maximum your population will count in full in one connected region from your home region. Sea zones do not count, and will be considered a detrimental region to all unless you maintain a naval concentration. Which negates this. While negating the sea attrition to your population score will be in full as you land on the land region.

For each movement beyond your initially no detriment region allowance. so moving from Say Eastern Europe to Western Europe (which has to go through central europe) 20% of your population will effectively not be counted in the algorithm to symbolize the difficulty of resupply of a major army abroad infrastructural issues etc etc.. If your invading another continent then you suffer an automatic 35% reduction of your population involvement. Unless your an empire which stradles continents (Byzantines, Ottomans, Russia just a few examples)

Extra continental invasions which are forced to cross more than 2 major sea regions or are geographically seperated as conventional history dictates, will suffer from major penalties

The least percentage of population included will remain capped at 5%

Region penalties are cumulative (i.e. add all that apply)
 * List of Region Modifiers for Attackers
 * Same Region: 0%
 * Bordering Region - Land: 0%
 * Bordering Region - Sea: -(20)%
 * Naval concentration: No penalty
 * Next Region over (add as applicable): -(20)%
 * On Same continent: No penalty
 * Other Continent:-35%
 * Multi-continental Empire: +35%
 * Stacking Penalty Limit: -95%

Example:

 * Naples with a naval concentration invades Southern France.
 * Naples starting region: Southern Europe
 * France Starting Region: Western Europe
 * Sea attrition (Med sea) which is canceled out by naval concentration.
 * Southern Europe to Western Europe with a naval concentration leaves out any attrition allowing the full force of the Neapolitan population to count.
 * (note a map will be made which will discuss and work out the specifics of regions. However before this time, mods should be relatively able to answer the questions about which region your nation resides in.

Population
The first thing done is an algo is that the population is found of the entire alliance for both sides—leading nation, allies, and vassals.
 * (Total Population * 0.02)/5000 = Score

Government
If the government of the leading nation is a ...
 * Great Nomadic Horde - +8
 * Celestial Empire (China, Japan) - +8
 * Absolute Monarchy - +7
 * Westminster Monarchy (England) - +6
 * Absolute Feudal Monarchy - +6
 * Elective Monarchy - + 5
 * Feudal Monarchy - +5
 * Iqta' (Islamic Feudalism) - +5
 * Theocracy - +5
 * Oligarchy/Council - +6
 * Warlord/Tribal - +5
 * Free City (Holy Roman Empire) - +5
 * Merchant Republic - +5

(more types will be added as we progress through the game and more modern types of government are invented.)

Economy

 * Tier I - +2
 * Tier II - +3.5
 * Tier III - +5
 * Tier IV - +6.5
 * Tier V - +8

Technology

 * Tier I - +5
 * Tier II - +7
 * Tier III - +10
 * Tier IV - +15
 * Tier V - +20

Tiers will scale with the time period and will be subject to moderator approval as well as my own. Note that tech tiers for coalitions will be counted as a weighted average based on troops sent to war.

Battle Stage
This stage may be repeated up to six times, depending on the size and scale of the war. Note that in this stage, "Attacker" does not mean the nation that declared war first, but means the nation that is in the enemy's territory, attacking enemy cities or troops.

Army/Navy Size
If you are having trouble with army sizes, or your suggested army size is implausible, ask any moderator for the maximum army size you can field. Army size includes all allies and vassals on the same front. Now on top of this in an era with enlarging populations, you can reconstitute your armies with roughly a 60% rebuild. Which means if your entire army is wiped out you can bring reconstitue upwards of 60% of the armies strength.

Finding Maximum Army/Navy Size

 * Army
 * Feudal Nations: 0.0075 times population
 * Absolute Feudal Monarchies: .01 times population
 * Absolute Monarchies: .02 times population (cannot be achieved until at least 1620)
 * Nomadic Hordes: 0.01 times population
 * Non-feudal Nations: 0.015 times population
 * Naval-concentrated, non-feudal nations: 0.01 times population
 * Navy
 * Merchant Republic: 0.0018 times merchant republic's population
 * Naval-concentrated nations: 0.0000936 times population
 * Normal Nations: 0.00003 times population

PRO TIP : You can send your entire military strength abroad in a fight but this will incur penalties such as revolts at home of nobility, Peasants, separatists. It is highly encouraged that unless you are fighting within a good marching distance of your home territory (neighboring nations in the region) the threat of revolt will be a decent possibility.. The more forces you deploy, further away, the more unrest at home you will have unless you have established or left a strong policing unit. (roughly 15-25% of your nation’s armed forces would be expected to be retained within the homeland for an extended campaign abroad and will be used as the general rule of thumb. This is generally only deterrent for smaller revolts like peasants and your own nobility rather than separatists and claimants to your throne is applicable.

Mercenaries
If you want to hire mercenaries to fight in wars, you must follow this formula. As all states hired mercenaries during this period well into the enlightenment age You have have a maximum 20% of your total military strength consisting of mercenaries. (Translation: you can multiply your troops by 1.25, but at a cost detailed below)


 * A mod will run an RNG to determine the behaviour of the mercenaries.
 * 1-3 = extremely professional fight on payment and promises of some sort of civilized loot system
 * 4-7 = Semi Professional, will cause some scale of looting damage to your own territory or whatever territory your own. Loot system is relatively disorganized and semi violent. Their unruly behavior over long period of time may anger your allies.
 * 8-10 = Unprofessional mercenaries. You have hired absolute scum, their looting system consists of burning the city, taking everything and murdering and raping the populous. Holding these troops on home soil can see national property damaged, and likewise for your allies lands. Your forces, and Allied forces will tolerate these men for a minimum of 5 years before the mercenaries are forced to leave the army for a different region.

Location of Battle
To find where land battle takes place, find the closest two major cities that is occupied by both sides. If the attacking player doesn't specify a plan, assume that the two armies will meet at a point between the two major cities.

All of the land categories are rather obvious, if a player has done their research then it should be relatively obvious what to classify everything as. A River of almost any type can be used, a Mountain range must be specifically labeled as a mountain range on historic maps, and if ignored mountain passes or river crossings in a different country could prove as a circumvention to your defense. Standard Protocol for most sieges, for most armies, is to outnumber the defending garrison by 3 to 1. As such, battles which assault cities and other strategic locations will follow this example. In the case of major cities and strategic forts, YOU MUST capture the city of fort to continue on into the country from that avenue. If you embark on a military campaign, a well-fortified position must be taken in a siege with the minimum 3:1 ratio to incur no penalty and can only be circumvented by Great Generals and Great Leaders. Conducting a Siege means that the involved manpower will not be available for other combat operations unless you pull them from duty to another front, or break the siege. If you attempt to bypass a well-fortified position a 20% penalty will be added to your final battle section score due to the exposed rear or flank of your army due to the massive strategic disadvantage left by a large enemy garrison based around a well-fortified position and capable of Harassing the attacking army. This is specifically true due to the increased viability of asymetric warfare which would impart casualties, attrition and a loss of morale.
 * Attacking-(Land Battle)
 * Near a major religious site: +5
 * Near the center of government/state: +4.5
 * Near a city: +3.5
 * Near a major river or the coast with naval superiority: +3
 * Near a populated border: +2
 * Near a major river or the coast: +1
 * Near a desolate location far away from anyone: 0
 * Attacking-(Land Battle in Hostile Mountains)
 * Near Capital: -10 (note very few nations capitals are in the mountains.)
 * Near/at City: -8
 * Near Major Fortress: -6
 * Near Religious site: -4
 * Normal attacking: -3
 * Decisive Battle: -3
 * Attacking-(Assault on a City/Fort)
 * Besieging a center of government/very well-fortified city: +8
 * Besieging a Strategic Fortress: +8
 * Besieging a major religious site: +5
 * Besieging a major city: +4
 * Attacking-Sea
 * Near/at Capital : +10
 * Near Major Fortress: +7
 * Near a major religious site: +5
 * Near the center of government: +4.5
 * Near a city: +3.5
 * Far from any coast: 0
 * Defending-(Land Battle)
 * Near a major religious site: +7
 * Near the center of government/state: +6
 * Near major friendly fortress : +5.5
 * Near a city: +4
 * Near a major river or the coast with naval superiority: +3.5
 * Near a populated border: +2
 * Near a major river or the coast: +1
 * Near a desolate location far away from anyone: 0
 * Defending-(Land Battle in Friendly Mountains)
 * Near/At Capital (if applicable): +16
 * Near Major Fortress/Majorly fortified city: +13
 * Near/At City: +10
 * Near Major River: +9
 * Coastal mountains: +9
 * Mountains: +7
 * Defending-(Assault on a City/Fort)
 * Besieged center of government/very well-fortified city: +12
 * Defending major Fortress: +9
 * Besieged a major religious site: +7
 * Besieged a major city: +4
 * Defending-Sea
 * Defending near landing site : +10
 * Near a major religious site: +5
 * Near the center of government: +4.5
 * Near a city: +3.5
 * Near the coast or in a major river: +1
 * Far from any coast: 0
 * Defending-(Battle on a Major River)
 * Near Capital (if applicable) +10
 * Near Major Fortress: +8
 * Defended River crossing: +7 (army must have at least 1 turn to establish necessary fortifications)
 * Contested River Crossing: +5 (army will meet the enemy at the crossing but has no built up defenses)
 * Penalties for Breaking Protocol
 * If you have 3 to 1 odds during a siege you will incur no penalties
 * If you have 2 to 1 odds, you will incur an extra 10% casualties and a 15% detriment to your score
 * If you have 1 to 1 odds or less, you will incur an extra 20% casualties and 25% detriment to your score.

There is also an annual Marching Limit for your forces, meaning that the location of a Battle must be within the marching limit of friendly-controled territory
 * Marching Limit Modifiers
 * Base Value: IDK, like 1500 km?
 * Insert other modifiers here

Great Generals/Leaders
Great Leaders may maintain control/good use over all elements of a nations military this means planning for all fronts

Great Generals are only able to lead within one army/front


 * Great General or Admiral
 * Great Leader - +45 (this would be considered a great king such as genghis etc etc, Event decided extremely rare)
 * General - +25 (Delegated via Event, can reach Great Leader status if they are able to take the throne. Much more common, usually requires distinguished service in a large good war.)
 * Admiral - +20 (Delegated via Event)

Attrition (Attacking)

 * Winter: (determined by RNG by uninvolved mod and if not applicable mod supervised uninvolved player)
 * Heavy Winter: 85% 1-2
 * Moderate Winter: 25% 3-6
 * Light Winter: 10% 7-8
 * Low Impact Winter: .5% 9-10
 * Mountains
 * Contested Mountains: 50% (this means plain and simple doing a mountain crossing, no historically traveled pathways etc etc)
 * Contested Mountain Pass 15%:
 * Contested River crossing: 5%

Blunder
RNG done by Unbiased, Uninvolved Mod

-0 to -5

Strategic Defenses
All nations will gain a maximum amount of 4 Strategic defensive areas (hinging on their population) and are used specifically to guard strategic choke points such as mountain passes, gaps in terrain, or important territories in the nation. For every 3 million people you will gain a strategic defense point/fort which will give a major boost to the defensiveness to a region and can effectively deter an enemy from a major offensive. They take roughly a decade to construct and prepare, and are a significant investment by the country. Their placement is roughly the same as a heavily fortified city, and in order to place these (and determine their coverage or even necessity as you can be denied if you lack the necessity) you must give a legitimate area for this fort, and give a predicted region of coverage. If they do not match up you will be denied. This will be handled by the resident algorithm moderator.

Casualties

 * Battle Tier 1: 15% of the losing force is lost. This requires both nations being within at least 25,000 troops of each other in the battlefield. In a Siege battle 10% of the losing forces will be killed wiped unless on the 2nd algo or a resounding defeat.
 * Victors: will incur 10% casualties in this Tier. In a Siege battle the Attacker will incur 13% casualties
 * Battle Tier 2: 30% of the losing force will be wiped out or captured. In a Siege 25% of the defeated force will be destroyed. (not applicable in a second algo defeat or in this case a siege which equates to the necessary amount to take a strategic fort or city)
 * Victors: Will incur 6% casualties. In a Siege they will incur 15% casualties.
 * Battle Tier 3: 75% of the losing force is wiped out or captured. In a Siege the entire force is wiped out or captured
 * Victors: Will incur 2% casualties. In a Siege 5% of the attacking force suffers casualties
 * Battle Tier 4: Losing force ceases to exist. In a Siege the the Losing force also ceases to exist
 * Victor: Attacking force takes minimal casualties. Siege, Attacking force takes .5% of casualties

Attacker
If an enemy is not within the 25,000 mark on troop comparison then all these values will be halved for the attacker. If the enemy has 50,000 less than you then they are halved once again. (this applies to the attacker.) This applies in every order of magnitude (and will be subject to change when populations have expanded enough to warrant the changing of the numerical amounts)

Defender
If an enemy attacking you is not within the 25,000 mark all values will be halved for the Defender. At another order of 25,000 the values will be halved again. (this is subject to change following the increase in population which will change the numerical values)

Victory or Defeat
To achieve a victory or be subject to a defeat, a few things must happen. You must have seized or won decisive battles or sieges in the territory in question. No longer will 200% clear an enemy from the battle all together.

To win victories the enemy must be defeated in the field or beaten while sieging. Just showing up with an army will not guarantee you victory.


 * Battle Tier 1 - 200-300% - Winner has won a battle with the enemy convincingly but not decisively (normal battles). Enemy can regroup and retreat in good order. In the case of Sieges a second algo is required as 500% will be minimum for sieges of fortified cities and major forts.
 * Battle Tier 2 - 300-500% - Winner has won a decisive battle and the enemy retreats in good order but with a decent amount of casualties.
 * Battle Tier 3 - 500-900% - Winner has won a crushing decisive victory enemy forces have suffered at least 40-50% casualties and are retreating out of the region. If caught in a city when this happens the garrison is entirely wiped out or taken prisoner.
 * Ultimate Tier - 900%+ - Winner has shattered the enemy into a full scale retreat from this region and any adjoining ones. The army will attempt to retreat to the nearest fortified city to regroup 55-60% casualties are expected. In the case of a siege the entire force is wiped out with a significant surrender as well. -5 for the next algo for the loser in this situation due to the morale of such a significant loss. That -5 morale de-buff will last 1 year.

Economic Tiers

 * Tier 1 +3
 * Everyone not listed in the other tiers
 * Tier 2 +5
 * Chimu
 * Hungary
 * Croatia
 * All other Player HRE states
 * Tondo
 * Majapahit
 * Tier 3 +10
 * England
 * Ottomans
 * Bengal
 * Poland
 * Russia
 * Brandenburg
 * Austria
 * Norway
 * Papal States
 * Khmer
 * Swahili
 * Oman
 * Tier 4 +15
 * Caliphate
 * Persia
 * Korea
 * Japan
 * Milan
 * Delhi
 * Sicily
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Portugal
 * Bulgaria
 * Bahmanid
 * Tier 5 (best) +20
 * China
 * Iberia
 * France
 * Burgundy

Tech Tiers

 * Tier 1 +3
 * (this is for tribes and non metalworking societies)
 * Tier 2 +5
 * Chimu
 * Mexica triple alliance
 * All Higher Native Civilizations, baring the Chimu, haven’t worked too much on metallurgy so I’m not sure if they would make the cut.
 * Tier 3 +10
 * France
 * Hungary
 * Russia
 * Bahamanid
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Norway
 * Croatia
 * Ottomans
 * Swahili
 * Tier 4 +15
 * Korea
 * Iberia
 * Austria
 * Poland
 * Milan
 * Two Sicilies
 * Bulgaria
 * Gurkani
 * Greece
 * The Caliphate
 * Portugal
 * Brandenburg
 * Poland
 * England
 * Burgundy
 * Delhi Raj
 * Tier 5 (best) +20
 * China

Discussion
=General Discussion=

Quitting/Resigning as Mapmaker
Due to the fact that the moderator team is at best inconsistant, and the fact that as of late they have started using there mod events to alter the actual internal affairs more than they should have, I resign as China and herby give up my mapmaking duties.

Also due to the fact this was the only part of wiki I was active on, I also feel it is prudent to leave the wiki once and for all.

-Nova 19:21, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

Nova: *is barred from colonizing a bunch of useless islands* *quits*

I am that guy (talk) 19:38, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * IATG, please refrain from being rude. Thank you. 23:02, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

Now that the mapmaker left, who will make the new maps?

MagnusWiki (talk) 17:34, December 23, 2016 (UTC)

Nova was an active mapmaker, RIP. This is after all a game, which should be decided mostly by the players and not the mods. The mods should be introducing outside pressure, not literally taking over China, like this:

'''Further issues plague Chinas colonial ventures into indonesia specifically corruption in the allocation of funding following the collapse of the first outposts. This leaves all colonies and outposts in Indonesia empty and further movement to the area impossible. This paired along with the inward focus of the high court of China makes further expansion a political impossibility with many hoping to See china become less violent in asia specifically wanting more internal development and settlement over expensive and pointless outward expansion (that means no more colonizing AT ALL china, period end of story. This is non negotiable.)'''

It was handled very poorly in my opinion. General534 (talk) 03:46, December 25, 2016 (UTC)

Point still stands, we need a new mapmaker. It's been 10 turns since we've had a recent map. Cour *talk* 19:44, January 4, 2017 (UTC)