Talk:Axis vs Allies: Revolutions (Map Game)

France

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 1 - 3 = -2
 * Strength: 9 (+BC)= 13
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * 12:07
 * 1*2*0*7 = 14
 * 14/78 = 0.179487179
 * 0.179487179*3.14 = 563589742.09
 * Total: 26

Egypt

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 24

Result

 * Stalemate between French and Egyptian forces ensures.

Discussion

 * I believe I did right. I also didn't include France's Big Cheese Power, due to being invaded. Correct me if I'm wrong. Enclavehunter (talk) 14:28, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * You should add it in. However, I just made a new rule that if you are invading from far away (+3 or less), then you need at least a +5 advantage to take any land. Ideas? Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:35, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Archive
First archive :) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:23, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

For

 * Korea
 * America
 * Persia
 * France
 * UK

Against

 * Siam (even if UN is created, the Siamese have no interest in joining it)
 * Japan we propose a reformed League of Nations and that peace keeping be carried out by each independent alliance system.
 * Soviet Union (We have no interest in another organization)
 * Turkey (Never)

Discussion
@Japan: That's what the new UN is. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:37, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Implausibilty
Hey guys. I've seen a few bits of pieces that I conisder implausible. First, the Italians troops and equipment numbers. I don't know how Italy could muster that number of bombers and aircraft, unless they were drafted from Libya. Second, the Facists France. I don't think the French people would allow for their government to become fascist, espically after two fascit nations attacked them. Third, the United States and its "war" against the Axis. I don't understand why the United States attacked the Soviet Union for no reason. The Reds did nothing to the United States, and the United States is still in isolation, and the only reason they went to war in OTL was the Attack on Pearl Harbor, which never occured. Fourth, why would the Americans waste soldiers and their fleet invading eastern Siberia, espically with nothing there except natives and deadly winters. There's a few others, but these are the main things I would like to talk about. Enclavehunter (talk) 01:58, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

All of the non-USA stuff is true. Now I'll talk about the US stuff.

A: America got into this because its economy and trade interests are way too much at risk.

B: Speak for yourself. You're just defending your own nation. When I say Eastern Siberia, per se it is more like Soviet Manchuria and the like. Vladivostok-ish and norht of that. Then if can get Japan in on this and convince Hitler to come to peace talkk, my efforts will bear fruit.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:02, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Still. We didn't do nothing to the United States, and here you are coming on our doorstep attacking the Soviet Union with no casus beli or however you say it. In OTL, if every nation went to war because their economic and trade interests were threaten, the world would be a warzone each and every day. Enclavehunter (talk) 02:06, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

No. I attacked your allies. So then, you will attack me. I have to think ahead and prevent that, so I have to invade you. Simple logical reasoning. AKA chain of events.

And btw: with France on the deathbed and Britain guarding the door, I gotta step in. Anywho, I ahve business to discuss with Hitler. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:13, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

United States

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 3 + 3 + (BC) = 9
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 3
 * 00:36
 * 0*0*3*6 = 18
 * 18/6803 = 0.002.......
 * 0.00264589151*pi = 0.00831................
 * Total: 15

Soviet Union

 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: Soviet Union (L): 4
 * Motive: 7
 * Chance: 5
 * 00:36
 * 0*0*3*6 = 18
 * 18/5,212 = 0.03448275862
 * 0.03448275862*3.14 = 0.01.....
 * Total: 22

Result

 * Marginal Soviet victory, but I don't know A: Who the Soviets were fighting (after all, America's not there yet), and B: Why the Soviet Army is in Kamchatka and Samoyeda. I'm surprised the Soviets didn't get a 1 for capital distance.

Discussion

 * Another attempt for an algorithm. I didn't know what to put for my UTC Time, so I put the time Scraw (United States) declared war on the Axis and Soviet Union. I did this, because I assume ounce nation declares war, then the defending nation is at war with the attacker. Pita, Correct if I'm wrong. Enclavehunter (talk) 05:08, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

You're pretty much right, and it should be with heavy casualties as well. IMO, we should retcon the last two turns (France suddenly converts to Axis, USA invades USSR), but retcons do kill games... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:00, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

i think a retcon would be good, despite what it will do to the game or atleast make an event that creates a widespread resistence movement in france along with resistence movements throughout the occupied regions (including occupied china) that way we can finally make a guerilla warfare algorithm (i really want one XD) Nkbeeching

Can we all just back up for a second? I think we should get a few things clear. First of all, I did not even make landfall in the USSR yet, so why is there an algorithm? Secondly, this is part of the greater war with the Axis Powers, not America's lone vendetta against the USSR. Thirdly, and more importantly, there is no Franco-German War, Franco-Italian War, Anglo-German War, Italo-Egyptian War, these are all part of one master war AKA WWII. I think we should have a mega coalition algorithm that we update as time goes on. So fourthly, and indirectly we're still on my third point, a lot of stuff if going wrong here. So me invading the USSR is far from imaplusible when I'm at war with the Axis. Doesn't it make sense to attack the nearest Axis nation when you're warring with the whole alliance? And I'm trying to negotiate with Hitler but Imp doesn't want to come down to the table. So yeah. And finally, let's not retcon the gfame. Let's just pretened that France is still Allied. The END of A Tale of Two Wars.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:30, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with a retcon. Enclavehunter (talk) 02:48, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet motive is not 10 because I do not intend on conquering 2 million+ sq mi of land, for Genghis Khan I am not, though Genghis Khan, wish I was. And location goes by capital, so..... And you should use the pi button on the calulator, not 3.14. And my edit ount was really 6791 when I made the war declaration against the Axis. Allow some corrections here. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:05, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

That's why I agree with the retcon. Appearently alot stuff has happened (France turning Fascits, me and scraw's arguments). I apoligize for what the argument has brought, and I'll just watch and see how the war turns out. I'm done arguing. Enclavehunter (talk) 03:31, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

For

 * Enclavehunter
 * Nkbeeching
 * Stewdio333
 * Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe)
 * -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 2012年9月23日 08:10:57 (JST)

Discussion
Seeing as I can see the argument going on and on. I decided to put up a vote. Enclavehunter (talk) 02:53, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Before I vote, what is the extent of the retcon? Stewdio333 (talk) 03:34, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

That's up to the mods. I'm just a simple player. Enclavehunter (talk) 03:38, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Two turns. -         - Anyways, I propose we ignore the implausogasms and go on acting as if they never happened, cause retcons ruin games. RRG, Golden Rule of Map Games. -         -  Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:47, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, sounds good, though I'm just another simple player. Stewdio333 (talk) 05:35, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Retcon passed, the game is retconed to 1941.5. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:08, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sino-Japanese War 1941.5
According to the algorithm, Japan gets 21.5% of Chinese land to split with Siam. This is 2306 pixels, which leads to the collapse of China. All of Eastern China is taken by Japan/Siam. Western China, however, is not taken.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:05, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Intervention in East Indies
I think we can safely say East Indies breaks apart from the Dutch and Japan takes over, as in OTL. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:39, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Argentina

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L): 4
 * Greater Industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 0
 * 19:52
 * 1*9*5*2= 90
 * 90/202= 0.44554455445
 * 0.44554455445*3.14= 1.39900990099
 * Total: 20

Chile

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Total: 21

Result

 * Argentina is pushed out of Chilean territory

Second Peruvian-Brazilian war ( The andean war)
(((34/(29+34))*2)-1,)*(1-1/(4))= 0.05952380952

According to the algorithm, Brazil gets 5.95% of Peruvian land, or 108 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:49, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

UK
Guys, I announced like 10-15 days before today that I'm NOT coming back, get a new UK player.

The Royal Guns (talk) 00:30, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, i will play Great Britan because we cant have ww2 without the UK

Warman555 8:02, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

No, we cannot have a player with two nations. I will mod the nation until we can have a new player take over. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:57, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Can i play Great Britan if i give up France? Warman555

Nation-switching in the middle of games is not generally encouraged, although you are allowed. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:19, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Plausibility
just wanted to know if what ive been doing with japan was ok and plausible. Nkbeeching

Pretty good, but just know you will have to pull out of China in the next 10-15 years. It's impossible to hold that much land with that many people for too long. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:20, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet Union (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Soviet Union (L), France (M, BC), Great Britain (M, BC): 18
 * Greater population: 3
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * 12:56
 * 1*2*5*6= 60
 * 60/5230= 0.01147227533
 * 0.01147227533*3.14= 0.03602294455
 * Total: 36

Germany (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Germany (L), Italy (M), Spain (M): 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 31

Result
Crushing Soviet victory, the Soviet union receives 4.54% of German-Polish land.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 13:02, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Result
Too tired to post everything, but Brazil gets 2.73% of Uruguayan land, or 8 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:03, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Invading Desert: -3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * 1*1*2*8= 16
 * 16/880= 0.181818181
 * 0.18181818*pi= 0.057119866
 * Total: 12

France (Defendant)

 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Defending Desert: +3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 27

Result:
French forces in Syria devastate Turkish forces sent against it, and take 9.62% of Turkish land, or 127 pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 00:45
 * 1*1*4*5= 20
 * 20/880= 0.022727273
 * 0.022727273*pi= 0.071399833
 * Total: 29

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Total: 24

Result:
Turkey may take 4.72% of Grecian land, or 11 pixels.

Turkish-British War
I didn't do this one because I think you have enough on your plate lol... this war would have cost you approximately 40-45 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:56, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Then I'll keep my head down. I like my land too much. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 14:54, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Lesser Antilles
Under the North America header, is the Lesser Antilles a single playable nation, or is each island (group) a nation? Also, it's Antigua and Barbuda (Barbados is far to the south and not part of that OTL nation). Also, there appears to be an error with the indent by the Greater Antilles. 77topaz (talk) 08:48, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

They are all single nations per island, not controlling the entire chain. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 09:42, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

What nations should be on the list? The current OTL ones? 77topaz (talk) 11:00, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

The British currently rule all of the Lesser Antilles. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:01, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * 19:26
 * 1*9*2*6= 108
 * 108/892= 0.1210762331838565
 * 0.1210762331838565*pi= 0.3801793721973094
 * Total: 29

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 27

Result:
Turkey may take (Pita help) of Grecian land, or (I'z don't know) pixels.
 * 2.98% of Grecian land, or 7 pixels. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:09, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Pita... ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 00:33, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

American Peace Treaty for World War II
Aside from the Soviet proposal, the United States proposes more. That is all.
 * After the war, a United Nations organizations will be formed. We will make it stronger than the LoN, and we will use it, and we will maintain world peace with it.
 * The Permanent Security Council will have the following six members: the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, France, and another nation that will be chosen. (Most likely Turkey or none.)
 * The Axis Powers shall be divided and occupied.
 * For Germany, we shall follow the Soviet proposal.
 * For Italy, southern Italy (the Neapolitan area) and Siciliy will be formed into the Republic of Naples. Northern Italy shall be occupied by the British and the French.
 * For Turkey, the OTL borders will be placed.
 * The Japanese shall not suffer much; they will maintain Indochina, Manchuria, Taiwan, and the present territory.
 * That is all.
 * Seeing the toll of the destruction of Frankfurt, the use of nukes will be limited. We'll talk bout that later.
 * German Poland gains independence, taking East Prussia with it.

Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 19:00, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Japan accepts the proposal but requests that the treaty stipulate that all members of the E.A.T.S.P. are aknowledged as independent states with in the E.A.T.S.P. sphere of influence it is also requested that the allies accept that Japan deal with the peace treaty with China as it is a seperate conflict from the great war that happened in the West. over the rest of the stipulations Japan has no complaints.
 * Empire of Japan
 * Republic of Korea
 * Kingdom of Siam
 * Kingdom of Indochina
 * Republic of Indonesia
 * Empire of Manchuria

only one thing what about the Algorythm for the entire war ? Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:50, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

There wasn't- more of several different for the different fronts. If we just did the entire war, it would get very, very confusing on who gets what, etc. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:53, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey had no active part in the war. We just kept to ourselves really, and didn't voice anything on the European fighting. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 20:55, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Corrected Finalized Treaty

 * After the war, a United Nations organizations will be formed. We will make it stronger than the LoN, and we will use it, and we will maintain world peace with it.
 * The Permanent Security Council will have the following members: the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, and France
 * The Axis Powers shall be divided and occupied.
 * For Germany, we shall follow the Soviet proposal.
 * The Soviets shall occupy what territory they have control over currently. The Americans will occupy the remainder.
 * For Italy, the reparations will also be enforced for 20 years (as with Germany) and all colonies will be released.
 * The Japanese shall be allowed to develop their own treaty with China and will be allowed to retain Indochina and the East Indies.
 * Seeing the toll of the destruction of Frankfurt, the use of nukes will be limited. The conference between the leaders of the USA, the USSR, and the Empire of Japan shall be held to discuss this.
 * German Poland gains independence, taking East Prussia with it.
 * No nation involved in this war will be allowed to wage war against a nation which was its enemy during the war. All active campaigns shall not be resumed. Militarization of the defeated nations shall be limited for twenty years.

Signatories

 * President Henry A. Wallace of the United States [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 06:07, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Emperor Hirohito
 * President of the First Republic of Korea, Kim Il-Sung
 * Premier of the Soviet Union, Leon Trotsky Enclavehunter (talk) 04:12, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Emperor Ananda Mahidol, Eight Monarch, & Empress Suthawan Banomyong of the Kingdom of Thailand (Thailand still refuses to join the UN however) -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 2012年10月16日 18:14:42 (JST)

Discussion

 * It is way to harsh on Italy, we surrendered before you even invaded, we will not be divided, we will give up Libya, Eritrea, and Somalia, but not let ou divide the homeland.
 * It can be harsher, and it is harsher on Germany. Read the damn game, Dean. That's why we have this problem. The Italian republican government was created by the ALLIES, and freed by the ALLIES. Technically it's a puppet.
 * no, i was NEVER invaded!!! And my colonies are part of the federation

Argentina (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 27

Chile (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Total: 21

Result
Argentina takes 6.25% of Chilean land, or 68 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:44, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * 23:11
 * 2*3*1*1= 1
 * 1/908= 0.0011013215859031
 * 0.0011013215859031*pi= 0.0034581497797357
 * Total: 35

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Total: 29

Result:
Turkey may take 7.81% of Persian land, or 207 pixels.

Brazil
Anyone else think Brazil should be penalized for having four different wars at the same time? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:13, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Ever hear that great minds think alike? Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 04:04, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

May i point out that the only current wars i held are with Suriname, and peru, and support to argentina is nothing more than what america was doing with britain prior to their entrance in the war In OTL, so counting Chile 3, without it Just 2 wars Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:46, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

You've had wars with Columbia, Peru, and Surinam in the last 5 years. Brazilian people are not the most warlike people, and besides, there is a big difference between America and Brazil. Although I think their invasion of Mexico is slightly implausible since they are in isolation. But even that has a historical precedent, during the Mexican-American War. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:13, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

my point its not thay im like america and the last war with colombia would have been in 1943 as i started in 1940 with venezuela, so we could discard that one, in american case i was stating that i was only aiding argentina's war with chile, nothing asb, but the only reason i have continued my war against peru is because i only want a coast line in the pacific to become a greater economic power in southern america, though i understand the penalization

War Weariness
Anyone think we should add war weariness in wars starting in the 1960s or so? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe)

Kinda depends on who fought which wars, how long, how hard (ex: how much money, troops, resources, etc) and other stuff. Too many factors. I say nay. Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 04:12, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Nay. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:24, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * 13:25
 * 1*3*2*5= 30
 * 30/914= 0.0328227571115974
 * 0.0328227571115974*pi= 0.1030634573304158
 * Total: 29

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 25

Result:
Turkey may take 4.72% of Persian land, or 82 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:27, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

United Nations
Who would join? Also, Enclavehunter, you no invade the Balkans? :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:00, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Join

 * Korea
 * United States
 * Great Britain
 * France
 * Mexico
 * Persia
 * Soviet Union

Not Join

 * Siam

Chile (defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 24

Argentina (invader)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * 20:41
 * 2*0*4*1= 0
 * 0/241= 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 25

Result:
Argentina may take ?% of Chilean land, or ? pixels.

United Nations (Axis vs Allies: Revolutions Map Game)
Take a look! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:33, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 03:56
 * 0*3*5*6= 0
 * 0/918= 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 33

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Total: 22

Result:
Turkey may take 10% of Persian land, or 236 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:33, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * 13:25
 * 0*3*5*6= 0
 * 0/918= 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 32

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 28

Result:
Turkey may take ?% of Greek land, or ? pixels.

Greece is already fully under Turkish control. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:24, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Excellent. >:) ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:20, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Vassals
Is it possible to vassalise or form confederations in this game? 77topaz (talk) 04:11, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

You can have rump states that are under your control. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:23, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * 18:59
 * 1*8*5*9= 360
 * 360/939= 0.3833865814696486
 * 0.3833865814696486*pi= 1.203833865814696
 * Total: 31

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 27

Result:
Turkey may take 11.74% of Syrian land, or ? pixels.

Discussion
Turkey is invading Latakia in western Syria which has no desert by the way. And Pita, could you tell me how the land/pixel equation thing works? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 00:14, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Basically what you do is take ((y/(z+y))*2)-1, where "y" is the score of the winner and "z" is the score of the loser. Then take (p)*(1-1/(2)), "p" is the above equation. You should get a percentage. Also, for the pixels, I use a program to count the pixels for a country- with that, I get the percent, round it up, and post it. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:55, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Awesome. What kind of program do you use? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 01:20, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * And I take it 11.74% is the correct answer? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 01:34, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, 11.74% is right. I use ImageJ, which is pretty confusing to use though. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 09:21, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks for the math lesson, it'll help for the future.... ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:30, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Guys im not mod but there shuold be a rule about areas with mountins heres what i got invading mountin -3 defending mountin 3  Warman555

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 6
 * Chance: 7
 * 18:59
 * 1*8*5*9= 360
 * 360/941= 0.4112646121147715
 * 0.4112646121147715*pi= 1.291370882040383
 * Total: 28

Bulguria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Bulguria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 26

Result:
Turkey may take 1.32 % of Bulgarian land, or 3 pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 17:33
 * 1*7*3*3= 63
 * 63/961= 0.0655567117585848
 * 0.0655567117585848*pi= 0.014047866805411
 * Total: 29

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 26

Result:
Turkey may take 11.91% of Syrian land, or 33 pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Invading desert -3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * 17:33
 * 1*7*3*3= 63
 * 63/961= 0.0655567117585848
 * 0.0655567117585848*pi= 0.014047866805411
 * Total: 27

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L), UK (M+BC), US (S): 13
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 34

Result:
Turkey is pushed out of current Persian land by 2.87%, losing 60 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:26, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Pita, I got "12.56" as the result, and have no idea how to work that. Solve the equation, and you shall recieve the antidote. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:44, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

um you do realize that persia is now backed by several world powers right.

And? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:47, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

also persia and bulgaria are my allies you should add that to the next bulgarian and the current persian algorythm Sine dei gloriem (talk) 04:37, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

The USSR is my ally in the conflicts, and the UK can't be counted since it doesn't have the compacity to fight another nation (it was nuked into the stone ages correct?). ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:46, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

the uk was never hit by nuclear weaponsd i think

the UK was never hit by nuclear weapons Warman555

It was threatened in circa 1950-1951, but not hit 90.244.91.81 15:46, October 26, 2012 (UTC)(Mike A).

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 02:00
 * 0*2*0*0= 0
 * 0/966 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 25

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Total: 24

Result:
Turkey may take 12.30% of Syrian land, or ? pixels.

Discussion
This is for the last push that I didn't do. I was tired. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 05:01, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * 23:51
 * 2*3*5*1= 30
 * 63/974= 0.0308008213552361
 * 0.0308008213552361*pi= 0.0967145790554415
 * Total: 29

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Total: 22

Result:
Turkey may take 11.00% of Syrian land, or ? pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 9
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * 23:51
 * 2*3*5*1= 30
 * 63/974= 0.0308008213552361
 * 0.0308008213552361*pi= 0.0967145790554415
 * Total: 37

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L), UK (L): 8
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 30

Result:
Turkey may take 11.37% of Persian land, or ? pixels.

Decolonization
An interesting topic that I felt important to bring up is that of decolonization. France and Britain lost huge chunks of their empires between 1950-1960. In the order of their independence (from 1956-onwards): For the Brits–Sudan (1956), Ghana (1957), Nigeria (1960), Somliland (1960), Cameroon (1960), Somalia (1960), Sierra Leone (1961), Tanzania (1961), Uganda (1962), Zanzibar (1963), Kenya (1963), Malazwi (1964), Zambia (1964), Gambia (1965), Botswana (1966), Lesotho (1966), Swaziland (1968). And for the French–Everything by 1960. Liberate Africa comrades, and let the Cold War begin! ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 20:12, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

OTL France's loss were Central African Republic (1960), The Republic of Congo (1960), Gabon (1960), Madagascar (1960), French (south) Cameroon (1960), Senegal (1960), Niger (1960), Burkina Faso (1960), Chad (1960), Mauritania (1960), Morocco (1958), Algeria (1962), Tunisia (1956), Mali (1960), Comoros (1975), Guinea (1958), Côte d'Ivoire (1960) and Benin (1960). (St. Helena island remained British and both the islands of Reion, Europa and Mayotte remained French).The River Nile-2 (talk) 04:02, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Portugal lost theres in 1975.90.244.89.157 20:03, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I"ve been trying to keep up with the time and decolonization. I've already taken away Libya, South Africa, etc. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 12:46, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 9
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 4
 * 14:22
 * 1*4*2*2= 16
 * 16/994= 0.0160965794768612
 * 0.0160965794768612*pi= 0.0505432595573441
 * Total: 34

Lebanon (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Lebanon (M): 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 27

Result:
Turkey may take 11.26% of Lebanese land, or ? pixels.

Argentina (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L), United States (S), Soviet Union (S): 14
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * 19:45
 * 1*9*4*5= 180
 * 180/266= 0.6766917293233083
 * 0.6766917293233083*pi= 2.124812030075188
 * Total: 39

Chile (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (M): 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 22

Result:
Argentina may take 9.8s% of Chilean land, or ? pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 9
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * 15:29
 * 1*5*2*9= 90
 * 90/1002= 0.0898203592814371
 * 0.0898203592814371*pi= 0.2820359281437126
 * Total: 28

Iraq (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Iraq (M): 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 28

Result:
Turkey may take 11.21% of Iraqi land, or ? pixels.

You are forgeting to defending desert 3 invding desert -3 Warman555

Northern Iraq is hilly and made up of grasslands. Southern Iraq (I mean very far to the south) is desert. My forces are aren't there. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:28, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Possible Return
I may be returning to AltHistory Wiki, though not as massive (I plan to be only on this Map Game and Principia Moderni II), and I'm thinking of playing as Hungary again. Can anybody tell me the status of my dear country? Stewdio333 (talk) 10:46, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet vassal state :( PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:15, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, so much for Hungary. Can I still play as the country, or should I pick another one. (Do note that I'm not sure if I'll be able to return? It's just in case.) Stewdio333 (talk) 02:39, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

You can still play. You can secretly mobilize and modernize your army and eventually break free of the USSR. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:03, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 6
 * Invading desert: -3
 * Chance: 9


 * 12:27
 * 1*2*2*7= 28
 * 28/1016= 0.0275590551181102
 * 0.0275590551181102*pi= 0.0865354330708661
 * Total: 28

Egypt (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Egypt (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Home is desert: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 26

Result:
Turkey may take 12.11% of Egyptian land, or ? pixels.

' STOP BEING IMPLAUSIBLE. '

You can't tell me not to be unplausible if I'm following the rules exactly as they are. Turkey has a large military, it is capable of invading Egypt, and I have a reason for invading Egypt. And please, explain to me the implausibilty of invading Egypt. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:31, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Wikibreak
I'm currently on a semi-wikibreak where I'm only posting on AvAre so please bear with me on the maps and such. Can anyone else step up and do the maps and algorithms? I am currently being bombarded with homework... :( PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:00, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

WW3
anyone up for a third world war im planning on bringing about events that could lead to ww3 or atleast to a great war in all of asia. Nkbeeching

Go on... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 19:29, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm listening! Enclavehunter (talk) 19:33, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Hello how do I join this? I would like to be Leader of Norway.

Thank you in advance.AltHistoryGeek (talk) 00:04, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Just go to the Europe section in the Nations section and sign your name next to Norway. Then start posting stuff for your country. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:48, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

What's happened since?
Well I was playing as Persia since the beginning of the game, then due to unforseen circumstances I left AltWiki all together. I decided, having more spare time now to check how all has been doing. So I saw the map, Turkey, pretty expansive, Japan looks impressive, anyways that's not the point. I know there's a possible war brewing between Turkey against the US and Japan, but anybody tell me a brief paragraph of how things are now? Hell they don't even have to be complete sentences, so yeha, thanks. Ianian58 (talk) 00:28, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

World War II ended with Germany and Italy being steamrolled by the USSR and the USA. Most colonial empires are gone, Brazil and Argentina have conquered most of South America, the USSR has most of the Baltics and a lot of Easter Europe, Turkey has taken over most of the Middle East and the Balkans, Japan and the EATSP has taken over most of East Asia, and we're in a cold war with nukes (USA, USSR, Japan, Korea, Italy, Turkey). Yeah. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:32, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Italy? Deyfrek? Just because Italy has many a nuke does not mean it is in the Cold War. And Korea is really in the Japanese sphere of influence; not really on its own combatant side. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:43, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm listing the countries that have nukes. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:51, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict. Goes by capital city.
 * At the war: 5
 * Next to the war: 4
 * Close to the war: 3
 * Far from the war: 2
 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Home is island: Defenders +4, attackers -4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3
 * Every nation nonmilitarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 2
 * Side with greater population: 3
 * Side with greater industry: 3
 * "Big Cheese" Advantage (USA, Soviet Union, UK, Japan, Turkey for now):+4

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * Religious: 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3

"Special" Status
In many points in history, a revolution (Hitler, Napoleon) has led to massive military successes at first. However, such revolutions have also led to massive failures (Mussolini, the South in Amer. Civil War). If a revolution has taken place in your nation in the past 7 years into an autocratic dictatorship, you are eligible for a bonus in military. If all of the above, +10.
 * If revolution to autocratic dictatorship in past 7 years.
 * If you get 6 or more in chance.

Morale

 * Recent military defeats (battles): -2
 * Extermination of conquered peoples: -3
 * Motive is less than 6: -1

Nuclear weapons

 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on capital city: +10 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +2 per additional nuke for belligerent, -2 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on major city: +7 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +1.5 per additional nuke for belligerent, -1.5 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on minor city: +5 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +1 per additional nuke for belligerent, -1 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Tactical nuclear weapon use: +5 for first tactical nuke, +.5 per additional nuke.
 * Nuclear weapon use for belligerent: -5 morale this turn and next turn.
 * Nuclear weapon use for defendant: -2.5 morale this turn only.

Economic situation

 * Great economy: +5
 * Fair economy: +3
 * Average economy: +1
 * Poor economy: -3
 * Crashing economy: -5

Chance
Take the UTC time at that moment. (ie 21:32). Then, multiply those numbers. Any zeros count as one. Then take the declaring user's edit count. Then divide the UTC number by the edit count. Multiply that number by 3.14 Take the fifth digit in the number, and there's your chance. Then, for the opponent, take the eighth number. And there you go!
 * 2*1*3*2= 8
 * ie 2831.
 * 8/2831= 0.00282585658
 * 0.00282585658*3.14= 0.00887318966
 * 7
 * 8

Result
Take (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where "x" is the amount of years the war goes on and "p" is the result of the equation ((y/(z+y))*2)-1, where "y" is the score of the winner and "z" is the score of the loser. If conquered land has been nuked, cut conquest in half.

China (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical advantage: Attacker (+1), Desert (-3)= -3
 * Strength: China (L+4), Manchuria (M+3), Japan (M+3, BC+4), India (M+3), Mexico (M+3), Madagascar (S+2)= +22
 * Greater population: +3
 * Greater industry: +3
 * Motive: Economic (+3)
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1
 * Strategic nuclear weapons: Moscow (+10), Leningrad (+7), Vladivostok (+1.5), and Caucasus oil fields (+1.5): +20
 * Tactical nuclear weapons: 11 tactical nukes used on front= +10
 * Morale due to nukes: -5
 * Economy: -7.5
 * Chance: +5
 * 21:10
 * 2*1*1*1= 2
 * 2/1932= 0.00103519668
 * 0.00103519668*pi= 0.00325216628
 * Total: 43.5

Russia (Defendant)

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical advantage: Defender (+2), Desert (+3)= +5
 * Strength: Russia (L+4, BC+4), Finland (M+3), Chile (M+3), Egypt (M+3), Poland (M+3, BC +3), Korea (M+3), Germany (S+2), Spain (S+2), United States (M+3, BC+4)= +34
 * Motive: Survival (+10)= +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: +0
 * Strategic nuclear weapons: Beijing (+10), Shanghai (+7), Tianjin (+1.5), Shenzhen (+1.5), Hong Kong (+1.5)= +21.5
 * Tactical nuclear weapons: 7 tactical nukes used on front= +6
 * Morale due to nukes: -7.5
 * Economy: -3
 * Chance: 0.00325216628
 * Total: 74

Result
Russia takes 6.489361702% of radioactive Chinese land, or 232 pixels. Huge casualties on both sides.

Discussion
Well this took a while XD PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:24, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Nice job. Seems a lot fairer than the last algorithim. I look forward to testing it in the near future. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:34, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:32, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

sencod Franco-Italin war

France (belgrent

loctiation + 4

motive+ 5

tacticol advantge+ 1

Greater populatiom+ 3

Greater indistruy+ 3

Econamy+3

stregth  france L(3) USA(BC+4) UK(BC+4) Spain(3)Netherlands(+3) Canada(+3)

specail satus :no

Morale +1

Chance 8

9:59

9*5*9=

405/1968

total 50

Italy (dendent)

location+  5

tactil advantgde + 2

econamy 0

motive + 10

sgreagth Italy (L+3) turkey (BC +4)

specail status:no

morale-2

chance+ 9

Total:31

reslut France can take 18:34% of italin land or ? pixels owch

decissuion

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker (+1), Desert (-3)
 * Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Hungary (M +3), Bulgaria (M +3). Greece (M +3), East Arabia (M +3), Serbia (M +3), Croatia (M +3), Albania (M +3), West Persia (M +3), North Syria & Lebanon (M +3)
 * Greater population: +3
 * Greater industry: +3
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1
 * Economy: +3
 * Chance: +6
 * 22:42
 * 2*2*4*2=32
 * 32/1173=0.0272804774083546
 * 0.0272804774083546*pi=0.0856879795396419
 * Total: 64

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: Defender (+2), Desert (+3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: -3
 * Total: 15

Result
Turkey takes 31.012658227% of Persian land. This is enough to topple the current government (>30%).

Disscussion
I'm thumped Pita. I totally forgot how to handle the result bit. :/ Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:32, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

Antarctica
What is happening? I would like to know so that the North Republic can act. Where is the land we are promised? I actualy mean where. I do not know which bit we own! Thanks David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 17:09, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

take the portion that was offered to japan. aslong as i have rights to do experiments in that land im fine, its an expensive idea that would just be a burden to japan. We are planning on taking as much of space anyways so. Nkbeeching

Argument from 1970.0

 * Do you read what you write? That is incredibly ridiculous and implausible, end of story. On an unrelated note, I would try not to spend money (you're spending like the US, which is not possible for you) and save it instead because the UN is sanctioning you.
 * First, do you read what you right? I don't think you get the fact that 99% percent of the people here canread your mind. Say something else other than its implausible, or I swear I will demand the admins get another mod who will. Second, I'm allied to the Soviets, Eastern Europe, and most of the Muslim world, and a control some of the most power nations in the Middle East. I control two-thirds of the world's accessible oil supply, and could cripple the Western World at my leisure as OPEC did in the OTL 1970s. Brag all you want about America, but you still bow to oil.
 * You forgot that the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe can supply the Turks with food, military equipment, medicine, and other important objects to continue the war effort, and thus the freezing of bank accounts and sanctions are useless. It's like OTL relations between China and North Korea. So sanctions are pratically useless.
 * Different feller here, those were AP and Viva, I be Scrawdad. The USSR is frobidden to do anything with you right now because of UN sanctions. So unless they decide to boycott the UN, there ain't much you can do. Second, Kemal was explicitly exiled from Turkey, so you can't say that he escaped justice or anything. Play along with it. The Soviets did it too, 15 years ago. Third, this disease would also eventually spread to your people, so that's ridiculous. Fourth, yo are hardly allied to anyone, you just conquered and now own the Balkans, who hate the Turks (see the Ottoman genocides of the 1800s) as well as Persia, which is and was Shia and hates Turkey as much as possible (see the Turk-Persian Wars, also of the 1800s). The Soviets are implausibly dealing with the Turks (see Russo-Ottoman relations during the 19th and 20th centuries), but I let that slide during my tenure as the only active mod. So there. 
 * First, this be the 1970s, not the 1800s, and I'm the Republic of Turkey, not the Ottoman Empire. Second, this "disease" isn't a disease, but a controlled drug made to look like the bubonic plague. Third, sanctions don't mean diddly squat unless the two nations choose to abide by them. Iran and China are still trading together, and North Korea is still launching their missiles. Nations ignore sanctions all the freakin' time. That's life, get over it. I wiped out much of the Persian military might, so if the people want to complain, they can do it with a gun shoved down their throat. Albania, Yugoslavia, and Hungary were allied to my nation during the WWII piece in the game, so I built up that relation, and they got over it. Just like American and Japanese got over Pearl Harbor. Finally, your the one saying I'm not allied to anyone despite the fact that I'm the one building the alliances with Hungary, Romania, the Soviet Union, Korea, and at times the North Republic. And I have the Middle Eastern Defense Coalition (the Balkan States, Persia, Ethiopia, and Somalia), as my alliance, plus I'm in the CIS. So if they want to trade with me, they can, and the UN can do little to stop it unless the United States wishes to fight the Middle East, Soviet Union, East Africa, and Eastern Europe and lose. I still control 70% of the world's oil, and I can strangle you like OPEC did and get away with it. Your tanks still need fuel. ~Viva
 * Seventhly, it not be mattering that this be 1970, your actions show that you haven't improved from the Ottomans. If you did some frakking reading up about the countries you're playing, you'd know that Balkans ('specially Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania, Herzegovina) still ain't gotten over the genocides. Eighth, you ain't no Republic. You're a god damn empire, similar to the US. Ninthly, this drug can still affect your population. Do you know about the baby making cycle? It could easily be transferred between partners. Tenth, the only ones who won't follow in with the sanctions are the Soviets and you. So yeah. And yeah, people will protest, but if you do shove a gun down their throat(s), you'll just show everyone else that they were right not to like you. Eleventh, Albania, Yugoslavia, and Hungary should never have been allied to you, that would be a DeanSims-level implausogasm, or even a Warman555 implausogasm. I just found out that you were allied too late for me to retcon it. Otherwise I would have. Or someone else would hav. Twelfth, America and Japan got over it because we walked into Japan, overthrew the imperialism, and started their technology boost. If we just made them surrender without too much war by being friendly, it would never have happened. There are still way too many people in Hawaii who are furious over Pearl Harbor. And, the US and Japan can still fight the Russo-Turkish alliance and win and conquer all your territory. We just ain't implausible like you folk. We know better. And, if I need fuel, I'll just buy it from the UAR and in Manchuria and Indonesia and/or even...AFGHANISTAN!
 * Don't have to go very far for fuel just look north to Canada or even Venezuela or Colombia, believe they own Venezuela. Anyways, I honestly think both you need to finish this argument up, it's one reasons why many map games die: long arguments over something simple, implausible people - not naming names, but to be honest, me sometimes, and the glitches in the coding. If your going to continue to fight, atleast take it to the talk page and not on the main game. Enclavehunter (talk) 22:46, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the third time I've said it but maybe this time you'll get it Viva. Your little Balkan puppet leaders can say whatever they want to you but it's the people that run the show. THE MASSES. Here's an example; During the American Civil War, European governments sure as HELL wanted the South to win in order to weaken the rising American nation. However they knew better to not recognize the Confederacy because A) The South had not had a decisive victory in a battle with the north(unlike the Americans during the Revolution @ the Battle of Saratoga which won them French support) and B) THEIR PEOPLE WOULD NEVER STAND FOR IT. Next, who are you going to sell all that oil if the UN is sanctioning you? Yourself? the Soviets? Hungary? Their consume would not even dent your supply, and world oil prices will drop due to an oversupply; THAT would ruin you. Your "Republic" has way too many angry citizens who would love to rebel. Combined with economic turmoil, these would be the death of you. What'll you do to put it down? Nuke your own cities? Or have your "huge" army take the next camel to Persia or Greece? Not only do they hate you, but they are unified by hatred for a common enemy--which transcends other factors. Even the warring Greek city-states of antiquity knew that their hatred for their common enemy(Persia) would unite them.
 * As an unbiased mod, I must address both sides. One of America's weaknesses is dependence on foreign oil. However, when OPEC did what they did in 1970, the US could not get oil from the places that Scraw mentioned-- because they were safely in the hands of communists. Here, they are not. Manchuria/Manchukuo is Japanese territory, the UAR hates you and would happily give them some, and Indonesia/Afghanistan have not been overthrown by communist governments as far as I know yet. South America too. Since we are on the topic of implausibility, I have some things to say to America as well(don't take this as an attack, it's too late to retcon it and i have to as an unbiased mod). The acquiring of Newfoundland,Labrador, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia simply would not have happened. Canadians have a profound sense of nationalism that dates back to the American invasion in 1812 and even the incursion during the Revolution. They repelled both attacks, which boosted their nationalistic feelings, promising themselves to never be absorbed by the United States. During the Civil War, Confederate sympathizers invaded a town in Vermont along the Canadian border. They were caught but escaped into Canada-- Canada safeguarded them. The North threatened war if such a thing happened again. That scared them enough to confederate into the Dominion of Canada, a nationalistic action. That has remained to the present day, in fact they still celebrate the day that they repulsed the American invasion of 1812. Even with Quebec's secession, they would not allow that(based on what I said and economically speaking-- why would they give up their Atlantic coastline leaving them with only parts of the Hudson and the Pacific coast?). AP (talk) 23:23, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Scraw, I still control two-thirds of the world's oil, and and 90% of the nations in the world aren't going to abide by some silly sanctions and watch their nation's implode because of the lack of oil. I have only the Persians, Greeks, and Balkan populace to worry about, and your too angry to actually understand the extent and equipping of my military, so your camel statement is very inaccurate. The Turks still outnumber the European population of the republic, and would gladly excerise their genocide muscle to free up some room for themselves. The Persians aren't much of a threat since I still have the Sunni Muslim population which outnumbers them from Syria, Arabia, and Iraq, all of which hated Iran. And the Balkans are too easy to take out. Turkey's military has come a long way since the 1880s. Long-range strategic bombers, nuclear missiles, aircraft carriers, well-trained jihadists, and a well-maintained missile shield mark Turkey's reputation as a powerful nation. Not to mention the four successful military campaigns and six political unions that came out with Turkey on top. Scraw, you woefully underestimate my power. ~Viva
 * That wasn't me. It was Enc, AP, or someone else. I ain't that stupid.
 * Well I'm sorry for that then... <_< Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 03:16, December 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oil is found in OTL Chad.
 * Other countries are major suppliers and have large reserves enough to provide several nations with what they need. You are woefully wrong and make unsafe assumptions; for the millionth time, they all hate you--whether Persian, Arab, Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Bulgarian,Omani,ETC. Your infrastructure is terrible and most of your land is a desert wasteland. This is not the 18th century, there will be no genocide except for maybe your bestie Stalin/Trotsky killing millions of his own people in Russia's frozen wasteland known as Siberia. Your nation was built on implausibility and dangerous assumptions. Just look over this talk page and its archives. It's all your military campaigns and multiple wars occuring at once. Somehow, it happened. I dont know what it is but on most map games, things like this are sadly overlooked. For this last post you made, all you did was repeat most of what you've already said and reiterate your strengths. Some of them are true, others are out of line and implausible. The bottom line is: Turkey will fall, hard.


 * Wow, so I'm the only one with any knowledge of real world geography? First off, Anatolia, Syria, Iraq, Greece, the Balkans, Bulgaria, and 70% of Persia aren't desert, so get your facts straight. Second, I can commit as many genocides as I want regardless of time, unless someone forgot something. I do recall spending the time between 1930 and 1950 building my infastructure so your facts are still wrong. I really don't care what the people want or think about, I still have enough soldier to kill them if I want, and I'm not above nuking my own cities. I have enough excuses to use anyway. If Turkey is going to fall, I will gladly nuke all of my neighbors and enemies as I do. I still have a strategic bomber fleet you know (OTL Mirage IV's were made for nuking). Oh, and I would like to know what my "dangerous assumptions" were. And the reiteration if a problem of my, I'm not good at arguing as my previous statements and my family can prove. And please list any of the implausible moves I made. That's the more serious question than a smart remark. And those weren't multiple wars, but campaigns of the same ones. I launched three different campaigns in Persia as part of the same war since I couldn't destroy Persia in one go. ~Viva
 * It's called a hyperbole. 20 years of infrastructure get you nothing basically, maybe a closing of the camel line from Baghdad to Aleppo because it just can't compete with the 2-lane highway you built. Unlike the 1800s, when people didnt know about things, communication was iffy at best, etc the modern world has a very nice way of dealing with intolerable genocides-- things have changed, no? Dangerous assumption #1: You think your military is huge. Nuking your own cities is flat out retarded, no if ands or buts. You do this whole genocide-kill-colonize thing in every map game and i'd like for you to remember that you act as a government would. NOT as you would. If the Soviet Union thought like you, we'd all by dead right now because they would have shot their nuclear arsenal at the entire world as you claim to want to do as you fall. Dangerous assumption #2: You think your own people support your outlandish plans. Dangerous assumption #3: You believe you are a superpower. It might happen, if the world doesnt kill you. America just might fall to its knees with an effective oil embargo. But who knows. You conquered multiple nations, they were separate words. I am good at arguing, as shown by my overturning of all your points. I'd like to close this argument. Good Day.AP (talk) 08:57, December 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I "think" my military is huge? As I last recall, it was huge. And I don't do the genocide-kill-colonize thing in every map game (I'd like you to remember genocide and kill are the same thing). So, I'm going to embargo the United States, have my people think for themselves instead of let you dictate what they believe, and I'm going to invade Egypt. And perhaps you should stop being a jerk and actually read what transportation capabilities the Middle East had instead of insulting my nation and its transportation system. Its rude and uncalled for. And I already admitted my arguing skills are poor, are don't need you bragging about your own. I feel I may need to start smoking in the future... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 14:42, December 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * You know, just forget it. I'm not in the mood. You win. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:01, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Strength: Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Ethiopia (M +3), Somalia (M +4), Hungary (M +3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: Yes (turned to dictatorship in 1970.5), +10 (RNG:8)
 * Morale: -2.5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: +10 (Belgrade), +7 (Athens), +1.5 (Thessaloniki), +1.5 (Corinth), +1.5 (Sofia), +5 (Skopje), +.5 (Tirana), +.5 (Sarajevo), +.5 (Split)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 6
 * 23:13
 * 2*3*1*3=18
 * 18/1224=0.014705882352941176
 * 0.014705882352941176*pi=0.0461764705882353
 * Total: 94.5

Balkan Rebels (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Balkan Rebels (L +4), Middle Eastern Confederation (L +4)
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1, -3 (Attempted extermination year earlier), -5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: -10 (Belgrade), -7 (Athens), -1.5 (Thessaloniki), -1.5 (Corinth), -1.5 (Sofia), -5 (Skopje), -.5 (Tirana), -.5 (Sarajevo), -.5 (Split)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: -10

Result
Pita, your game. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 05:37, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Strength: Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Ethiopia (M +3), Somalia (M +4), Hungary (M +3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: Yes (turned to dictatorship in 1970.5), +10 (RNG:8)
 * Morale: -2.5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: +10 (Tehran), +7 (Baghdad), -1.5 (Kirkuk), +1.5 (Damacus), +1.5 (Isafan), +1.5 (Aleppo), +5 (Latakia), +.5 (Bursa), +.5 (Nijaf), +.5 (Qom)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 8
 * 23:13
 * 2*3*1*3=18
 * 18/1224=0.014705882352941176
 * 0.014705882352941176*pi=0.0461764705882353
 * Total: 98

Middile Eastern Confederation (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Middle Eastern Confederation (L +4), Balkan Rebels (L +4)
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1, -3 (Attempted extermination year earlier), -5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: -10 (Tehran), -7 (Baghdad), -1.5 (Kirkuk), -1.5 (Damacus), -1.5 (Isafan), -1.5 (Aleppo), -5 (Latakia), -.5 (Bursa), -.5 (Nijaf), -.5 (Qom)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: -14.5

Result
Pita... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 05:37, December 5, 2012 (UTC)