Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

Sign Up?
I really want to sign up for this game, seeing how sucessful the last one was. However, I'm afraid I'll screw up the rules (which seem solid but are extensive and complicated) and be a detriment rather than an asset to the game. Should I sign up? CourageousLife (talk) 02:26, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

It will be fairly easy to learn all the rules, especially since many won't come into play until later. LurkerLordB (Talk) 17:04, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to sign up for this game. The first one sounded really interesting, but by the time I heard of it, it was already in the 1950s. Ehh... do I sign up here?

The Royal Guns (talk) 13:08, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Is there a rule against copy and pasting moves for turns? If not, there should be it makes the game horridly boring. PM I towards the end got really boring because all you would ever see was "amp up the military." It would be better and more interesting if people varied their posts.AP (talk) 17:18, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Though it is boring, there's no real rule against it. The main trouble with copy-pasting is that often that means the player doesn't read other peoples posts. But that doesn't need a specific punishment, as it usually brings about its own punishment. (see RWG's Persia in the last game)

TBH, I'm starting to get a bit bored with PM1, that's why I can't wait for this one to start. LurkerLordB (Talk) 18:56, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Amazing how I feel the same. Right now I'm waiting for 1999, I'm going to create a 9/11-esque Red Claw terrorist attack. Just to spice up the game a little bit.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:34, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Erm...are we going to paly this here or is there going to be a page for it (and not Lurk's subpage)? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:29, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to move the page, changing it's title from "User:LurkerLordB/Principia Moderni II" to "Principia Moderni II (Map Game)" when the last turn begins in PM1, with the game beginning 24 hours later as PM1 closes. LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:34, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

IKR! The first one has got boring, the only reason why I am not warring over the significant amount of territory lost. :P Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:56, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Moderator-in-chief
Last game we had a moderator-in-chief, Detectivekenny. Though we don't really need one, it did make some things easier. To clarify, the powers a moderator-in-chief would have: I nominate myself to be lead moderator, as I have taken a fairly leading role in developing this game. However, other long-term, active moderators of the last game, such as Collie, Yankovic, or Crimson could be the leader as well, if they wanted. Would people want a leader, and does anyone else want to be the leader? LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:31, August 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) To appoint moderators
 * 2) To moderate other moderation (say whether a mod event/ruling should be valid)
 * 3) Provide basic leadership (sometimes, just having one person to be the leader helped make things easier)

I think we should abolish the post. I believe we should simply have capable moderators (meaning those who are capable to do their assigned jobs) who are also able to balance each other out. If everyone does want a chief, though, you have my vote, Lurk. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:47, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps I could have a shot at being a mod once again? Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:27, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

You are still signed up as normal mod, would you want to run for mod in chief? LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:45, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Naw, I think you'd make a better 'in chief. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 03:04, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Lurker, you've got my vote. You've done a heck of a lot since Kenny left. However you won't receive any additional powers. I'd also like to ask if I could get the role of PM tutor for new players. I find I am relatively proficient at teaching other people... Scandinator (talk) 06:23, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

I vote for Lurker.i ain't focused enough to do this.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:56, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Time Zones?
Hey everyone, since there is a lot of attention here I propose to change the start time of a turn from 00:00 UTC to 12:00 UTC. This allows for me to consistantly post the disaster events (which affect the entire spin of the turn) and also allows less confusion since a turn will start on the same date for everyone instead of year x starting today at 10am for me and yesterday at 4pm for LurkerLord. If this happens I will be happy to start off each new turn and post maps at the start of every 5 years since the turn starts at 10 (or 11 during DST) pm which is a much easier time for me to edit than 10am or 11am (I am in class or exams :S). Since I will be graduating in 4 weeks and won't start uni till March its not a major issue atm but will become one after I start university. Scandinator (talk) 06:37, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Actually 0000 UTC is a bad time for several players who live in the UK or far west, like California or the Pacific Coast. I agree in changing it to 1200 UTC. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:42, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Omg, that would make things SOOO much easier for me (and probably Von) to post!! :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:58, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Having it start 12 hours earlier makes it so I can't post any moderator events, as I will be in school at 8:00 AM for me, so I would prefer keeping it at 8:00 PM for me, when I can easily edit. However, if more people will prefer to have an earlier start, I can adjust. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:05, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

I also wouldn't be able to do those events on lurk's place, as at 12:00 utc, i would be unavailable.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:21, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps another time would work? I would be availible for usually a couple hours before 0:00 UTC, and usually for up to three hours after. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:32, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well then lets see when the mods can post. My times are between 2000 to 2130 and 0600 to 1300 UTC(one hour earlier between October and April). Changing the time will affect several mods and players so we will have to see when is the best time and not everyone will be happy... However the mapmaker and disaster mod need priority and later so will the revolt mod. Since Lurker and Collie live about -5 and me on +10 I suggest a time of 1000 UTC? Scandinator (talk)

To be honest, shifting the time more than a 3 or so hours away from 0:00 won't really help me at all, so if you need it changed, we could probably change it then.

Or, we could do the thing where we make the mod events and the new turn before people can edit it, so we all can post events without having to wait for the new turn to begin. The only problem with this is that people could meta-game and see events coming up that would effect their nation and edit their turn accordingly.

Also, for this game, can we please enforce the rule where you can edit only on one turn at a time? Maybe two hours max grace period where someone can edit the just-ended turn, but we had things like people editing the last turn 9 hours after it ended and stuff. LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:06, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

I think Scan's second idea works better. And come to think of it, if we switched to 12 UTC, I wouldn't be able to post until 17 UTC, my free period.

Argh...oh well, I suppose whatever works best for the mods is best for us.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:59, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

So we change it to 21:00 UTC? That way I can update first thing in the morning and LurkerLord as soon as he gets back from school. Collie is this time ok? Scandinator (talk) 05:24, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Hrm... I think maybe 20-21 UTC would be the best- it would be 5-6 ish in DC and that's the time I'm most active. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:07, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

20-21 UTC is great. LurkerLordB (Talk) 21:44, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

21:00 UTC it is :D Scandinator (talk) 23:59, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

OK, now that we have settled on a better time, can we establish an end to posting stuff after a turn ends? Exceptions such as replying to something, clarifying something, changing a name, or moderation. LurkerLordB (Talk) 16:19, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should keep the times the same... Saamwiil (talk)

@ LurkerLord, one hour at most, I'm sick of these discussions on banning so we delete the post the first time and then ban on the second for three days. Obviously moderation, and minor changes are allowed.

@Saamwill, this decision was made to allow at least four mods to be on at the start time (Lurker, Pita, Collie and I). Therefore I won't miss out on posting the mod event (lol at PM epidemics) and thus it is more fair and consistant. Scandinator (talk) 06:58, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Wait...we're starting at 5 or 4 PM eastern time depending on daylight savings... I would rather 12:00 UTC (7 or 8 AM)...so that I can edit at 9 or 10 PM on the next turn...when I am usualy active...but 21 UTC can work.-Lx (leave me a message) 02:15, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

That was the best time for the most moderators to be able to post moderator events and maps, 12:00 UTC is a horrible time for me. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:24, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Conquest of Constantinople
In 1453 the Ottomans captured constantinople and dissolved the empire in month and some days. I was wondering if it was such a short war that an algorithm wasn't needed, I wanted to follow some of the empire's early historie. Saamwiil (talk) 22:55, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

The seige lasted for a year. Ottomans have 13 military points in the algorythm if they wish to attack Constantinople. Scandinator

Well from Friday April 6, 1453 to Tuesday May 29, 1453. Saamwiil (talk) 11:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Making algorithm Better
I was just wondering about a few thing that could modify the algorithm to make it more historically accurate: Just some sugestions... Saamwiil (talk) 23:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC) LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Golden Age, say like a 50 year period where nation gets +15 war score, (can also do other stuff)
 * Tactics, say 1 point for every ten years researching Officers.
 * Navy size, navies have won a lot of wars, say this counts as military research so your military research score doesen't go down (but doesn't go up), but you can say count the navy for the last 20 turns or something.
 * Overall preparedness- the average city wall to a city in your nation is very thick vs. very thin,
 * Best Leader- the best leader a country would ever have, great commander, this could say give a 3 point bonus.
 * If your capital is near the border with another country you could lose 4 points.
 * Being awesome- +500 lol, jk
 * Leader of faith- Like the Papal states, or the Ottoman Empire after they beat Persia.
 * 1) We currently have a system implemented that your score is raised if you have a government change, have an unstable government, and then have a popular revolt (like what happened with Napoleon or Hitler) for about 10 years, as those are small periods of intense military power. Nations that are neither new nor really old already have a bonus
 * 2) Tactics would fall under the preparing the military bonus.
 * 3) Naval power would fall under the preparing the military bonus.
 * 4) Overall preparedness would too.
 * 5) Best leader won't work, as then everyone would always have a great leader arise in their nations before they had any wars.
 * 6) A badly situated capital could be a small factor, but I can't think of any historical scenario where this makes a big difference. If the area is taken or attacked, the government can leave.
 * 7) (joke)
 * 8) This would just encourage more people to join you in any war motivated by religion.

Also, military updating was changed to +2 instead of just +1, so developing your navy and training leaders (which could be part or all of your update) would count more important. You could build up your navy, army, and train leaders all in one turn if you wanted, it would just still count as 1. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:50, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

What I meant for best leader would be like a period of 10 years in your nation history which you could use, like Suleyman the Magnificent or Queen Elizebeth. And for navy, a nation could have a strong army and no navy to support it therefore useless, I personally think they should be two. Btw, thx for telling me about the change! I would've been lost... Saamwiil (talk) 04:28, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Start Date
So, will we start tomorrow? The Royal Guns (talk) 00:43, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Depends what time zone you are in whether it is tomorrow or just later today. Going by Wiki time (UTC) it is later today, going by my time zone it is tomorrow. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:11, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

1450 mod events
Im pretty sure that the description for the Original Principia Moderni was like the Mod events from 1450 but for the nations of the people that joined in the Original PM. what I'm saying is that it would be better if the Description were to be deleted and switched to the Mod events regarding each Nation. And Also, the Russians at that point just paid tribute more like a bribe to the Golden horde just for insurance so that they would not have to deal with war...the states in Russia actualy led their own foreign policy and everything. -unsigned post by someone

If you are equating the 2 lines in the original PM intro about the current state of the world to Scandinator's much more detailed summary, then it should be obvious why we are switching. However, we aren't going to delete the intro of the original game, it is 592 days too late to add moderator events to that turn. The Russian event says nothing about them going to war with the Golden Horde. Also, I would say having to pay a large tribute to prevent yourself from being conquered would fall under being dominated by the Golden Horde. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:26, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Time?
Right then, it is now well past 03:00 UTC. Start?

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:40, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

We start at 21:00 UTC. That means in 18 hours. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:42, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Oh. My bad. I spoke twelve hours early. I incorrectly thought it meatn 2100 EDT, not 2100 UTC.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:44, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really understand the whole UTC, EDT, etc thing. The Royal Guns (talk) 12:51, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

UTC = Universal Time Coordinate

EDT = Eastern Daylight Time

Basiclly it has to do with time zones. -Kogasa 2012年9月04日 21:54:14 (JST)

AHH thank you. The Royal Guns (talk) 14:30, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Hype
Just a few hours left until the game starts. Anyone got some good music to listen to for anticipation? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 20:17, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NwP3wes4M8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot9LhcVWF2s

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:18, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8HN-SG55F0

Or at least it's mine anyway, lol. -Kogasa 2012年9月05日 05:20:32 (JST)

GANGNAM STYLE! LOL! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:56, September 4, 2012 (UTC)