Alternative History talk:TSPTF

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What's going on?
I've been having a hard time lately with the wiki. Images barely load, I can't edit or publish anything, and sometimes I get blank screens despite being fully loaded. What is going on?

Canuck2012 (talk) 02:26, March 2, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Wikia's having issues. They actually announced it this time, too, so whatever it is, it must be significant. Will be over in a few days, I'm sure. Lordganon (talk) 11:39, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Issues? I'm having none... but I'm using the monobook skin so that's probably why. PitaKang- (We are the Emperor's Chosen | Ave Imperator!) 20:13, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Canuck, do you use IE? Sometimes, the older version cannot cope up, and Chrome usually solves the problem. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:22, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I've been having many problems, using any of my 3 browsers (Opera, Chrome & IE).. Hence I've not bothered doing anything here the past couple of days. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:43, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, this is the problem which was happening yesterday. Its been fixed I think :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:47, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

It goes on and off for me. Been waiting all day for a chance to make edits.

IE, Chrome, Opera, and Safari are all having the problem for me.

At first, I thought it was my computer. So then I used my desktop. Then I thought it was my network, so I tried using a school computer. Now I'm stucking refreshing pages and waiting.

Also, Pita, Monobook is having problems too.

21:02, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

It's the JavaScript. Mine didn't work Thursday, so I sent an error report, then it worked Friday, and then it wouldn't work today, so I sent an error report, and now it's back up again. Is there any way that the penalties for not posting on a map game can be lessened due to technical difficulties? CourageousLife (talk) 21:26, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

It has been acting up on my end. I couldn't edit pages yesterday and earlier today. Seems to be working fine now. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 06:10, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia announced earlier today that the javascript problems had been fixed. Should be the end of troubles with editing, for now. Lordganon (talk) 07:15, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Glad that's cleared up. And I use Chrome by the way. IE's too much of a pain nowadays, it seems.

Canuck2012 (talk) 17:37, March 9, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

I still can't edit the forums.

Not sure if that's related though.             "Very funny, Scotty.   Now beam down my clothes."

Like with any of their problems, I expect it will be a few weeks before it clears up entirely.

...And you still have the "signature." It needs to go, Guns.

Lordganon (talk) 09:11, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

SonnyPatton
Wow, this is truly hilarious.

I recently got a message from SonnyPatton that he had moved my Great White South timeline over to his site in order to make it into a game. He gave me this link, which apparently I can not view (apparently I am blocked for some reason, maybe someone else can see it?). I informed him that I did not want him to do this, and asked him to kindly remove it. He then replied trying to justify his actions, and I once again told him to remove the (unseen) content. Than THIS (I especially love the GIF).

I have given him my thoughts on the matter, and now I have blocked him. I am allowing him to be able to edit his talk page, only because I want to see what he plans to say in response.

I blocked him for a week, because of his wonderful comment to me, but also his comment to ImperiumGuy after he stood up for me. I assume I have no objections to this. I would also highly recommend extending the block much longer, but I feel a week is an initial start and it can be extended if needed. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:40, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just as an update, this is what I see when I click on this link. At this point, I honestly don't care what is on that page, but just showing that I am blocked. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:41, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

The guy's an idiot - unless you are registered on his forum, you cannot see anything on it. Interesting that he found your IP to block it, though.

A permanent ban is a good plan. I also took the liberty, as per protocol, and since he was banned forever, to delete all his works on this site.

Lordganon (talk) 08:21, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, what an asshole... I think he was just trolling, though. No one's that stupid. PitaKang- (We are the Emperor's Chosen | Ave Imperator!) 14:40, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, how I wish you were right.

There is people that stupid.

Lordganon (talk) 08:42, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism
Some user named "Branbran64" has continuous vandalized the Night of the Living Alternate History (Map Game) page. His most recent attack has been posting "Eddie ands jon r butthurt so much they cant walk 'cause they have full anuses" several hundred times. He has wrote several messages, including one that sexually harrassed another user, and he appears to not be done. If some one could ban him that would be great. Mscoree (talk) 01:02, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

You two seem to share a few favorite wikis. Know each other from somewhere? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 05:46, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Banned for a very lengthy period. Lordganon (talk) 12:02, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Gl78064
I have been noticing that a user by the name of Gl78064 has been doing nothing but uploading flags (and a video) to this site. Not creating or editing articles, just uploading flags and a video (mostly related to Texas and Mexico). I commented him a while back about duplications, and have not seen a response.

The main reason I am bringing this up is because his actions remind me of Sunlord (which I brought up back in December). Not saying these two are the same guy, but that if he is not responding to comments and is only uploading files with no rhyme or reason, this seems suspicious. Not sure what to make of this, but if this is anything like before, this gradual uploading for no reason will continue. Any thoughts? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:56, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lets see what his intentions are. He could just be getting acquainted with the wiki, although the similarities does seem pretty suspicious. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 09:03, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

I highly doubt he is "getting acquainted" here, but I do agree that it is too early to say. But as of recently, he has re-uploaded a file that I told him was a duplicate, and messaged him about this again. If he does it again, that will be three strikes and I will probably block him. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:33, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, Nuke - block as you wish. Lordganon (talk) 10:01, April 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * He has recently added an article which includes all the images he has uploaded. However, he has also duplicated again. I have blocked him for three days. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:20, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

He has once again added a duplicate after being blocked for thee days, and has not made any kind of contact aside from adding files and an occasional article. I have re-blocked him for two weeks. If I have gone too far in the blocking period, feel free to change it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 05:21, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

No, it's good - he hasn't responded or communicated to you, at all.

Really, unless something is horribly wrong with a block, or some other action, the decisions of an admin aren't going to be changed. Just wrong, overall, to question each other's decisions - one sign of a poor and dysfunctional admin team if that is the case.

Most I do is extend blocks for repeat offenders if it wasn't noticed.

Lordganon (talk) 07:44, May 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear, I was worried I went overboard. I recalled you gave a two-week block for a second offense, so I went with that. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:15, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

A week or two, depending on the offense. This one would be a two-week, for sure. Lordganon (talk) 11:51, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Problem with "Night of the Living Alternate History"?
I just received a message from G greg e, which states that two users (I believe Lord Finnius and Harvester360) have joined his map game have placed themselves in his characters.

Sorry to say, but I know nothing about map games, so I don't believe I am the right person for this issue. Though what I believe he is concerned about is that these two may be the same person (due to the similar edits).

Not too sure what to make of this. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:00, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Taken care of. Lordganon (talk) 14:06, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Maruku2009
Apparently he's done it before, now he is doing it again. He's annoying people in general and commenting about how Video game ATLs are not proper ATLs. Could this please be looked into? Me'n Scraw'n DocEv talked to him about it and he says we are harassing him. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:29, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ya beat me to it.

22:54, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

He also put Pepin's Venice up for adoption without LurkerLordB's permission (though Imp has reverted that back now).

Doctor Evulz (talk) 23:04, April 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've noticed that a lot of trolling and vandalism has recently emerged from a user named Maruku2009. He appears to be editing the timelines of other people, and putting them up for adoption. He also appears to have a hatred of video games, claiming they're not a part of history, as seen on this forum post: . Thought I'd bring this to your attention so that the proper authorities can deal with him/her.
 * Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 00:43, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Seems like harassment to me. Since LG has already blocked him before, I upped it and have blocked him for a week. Also, it appears that he didn't put Pepin's Venice for adoption (Lurker did that himself in 2011). I have also reverted that page to the version prior to his edits. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:06, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Extended his block to a month - the number of types of problems warrants it, I think.

Nuke is right - Lurk put that up for adoption himself.

I actually think that he just likes video games to the point where he thinks it "wrong" to "mess" with them in that manner. The guy seems to have founded a few such wikis, even.

Lordganon (talk) 10:32, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

wiki contributor 85.164.111.101
i dont think a title like Eyad likes cock is allowed  DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 19:54, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

And the page just says he is a gay f***ing f*gg*tt Local (talk)

can someone ban him and delete it DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 20:11, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

It's currently been added for deletion. Mscoree (talk) 00:44, April 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have removed the article and have banned the user for a week. If he continues afterwards, we'll block him longer. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:58, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Potential sockpuppets?
Seeing that recent nomination for Mscoree to be a constable editor, I looked at the nominators profiles as I hadn't seen them before. Based on their profiles I found the following:
 * Edboy452: Edits - 322 ~ Joined Wiki on March 29, 2013
 * RazorFangZ14: Edits - 40 ~ Joined Wiki on March 28, 2013
 * NickTEHbau5: Edits - 7 ~ Joined Wiki on March 29, 2013
 * Jdplayer10: Edits - 11 ~ Joined Wiki on March 29, 2013

There limited edits have been almost entirely to the Night of the Living Alternate History‎ too.

Hence I think they may be sockpuppets, but they do have slightly different "My favourite wikis" sections. While they all use Alt. Hist. Wiki, they do differ slightly in favourite wikis, so perhaps they're just friends from these other wikis. Anyway the favourite wiki distribution is as follows:
 * Alternative History: Edboy452, RazorFangZ14, NickTEHbau5 & Jdplayer10
 * GeekCraft Wiki: Edboy452 & NickTEHbau5
 * Therealzombieroleplay Wiki: RazorFangZ14 & NickTEHbau5
 * Future: Edboy452

Anyone who plays that map game know how these players regularly interact in game? Over-friendliness between them would be another indicator that they're sockpuppets. I'm looking at Crim, Yank, Kogasa or Imp as you guys are TSPTF & play the game.

They may just know each other in real life or from other wikis, but I still find this situation suspicious regardless. I think further investigation is required. Ip check 'em? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:59, April 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I just joined a turn ago, I have no indication on this matter. Sorry, Von. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:26, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sent them a note before I even saw this, lol. Should get a response Monday or Tuesday. Lordganon (talk) 03:11, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

I know these people from other wikis and such. Them, and I others, I believe, are on my campus, and therefore have the same IP's sometimes. All of these players have however posted from different IP's in the past. Mscoree (talk) 20:57, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

As I said on the NotLAH talk page, the following people are people I know or are on my campus. For the most part these people have all posted from separate IP's before.
 * Mscoree
 * Geekman7473
 * Ayernam
 * UDie2day
 * Edboy452
 * RazorFangZ14
 * NickTEHbau5
 * JDplayer10
 * Daultz
 * Tr0llis
 * This IP: 173.72.110.90

Mscoree (talk) 01:57, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppets
I have reason to suspect that these two users are sockpuppets. I believe that Alexlee8991 may be controlling Allenrobinson. He has currently five edits, all of which on Night of the Living Alternate History, and all his edits appear to be in Alexlee's favor. After war broke out between Chine (Alexlee) and Tibet, Allenrobinson joined and has basically surrendered to the Chinese for no reason. Other than that he has few turns. If an admin could check their IP that would be much appreciated. Mscoree (talk) 12:45, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Request sent to wikia. Lordganon (talk) 04:20, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia confirms them to be the same IP. Both accounts have now been blocked for sockpuppeting, never to return. Lordganon (talk) 11:10, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if Ninjasvswarriors is also related to Alexlee8991. Ninjasvswarriors joined the Althistory Wiki one day after Alexlee8991 was banned, has rather similar editing habits and just revised an article created by the latter. --NFSreloaded (talk) 13:50, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Timelines (XXX)
After a few months, I have, I think, finally cleaned up all the Timelines (XXX)s besides the ones like Timelines (Superpowers) that are part of a specific ATL. Here's the list of all the cleaned out ones:
 * ]
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I remember WWI and WWII took an especially long time lol. But anyways, are there any I missed? I can't find any, but still...

Thanks. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 14:05, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

I think that's all of the ones with categories. Should I run across more - and I bet there are some without the categories actually "made" - I'll deal with them. Good Work, Pita. Lordganon (talk) 14:25, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm glad I could help. If I stumble across any others I'll clean them up too. Looks like Timeline Category Cleanup Project is finished. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 21:10, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Jontiben2
I have informed Jontiben2 about not adding duplications. Today he uploaded two duplicates (making this his second offense). I noted him about this (giving him the correct file links). He appears to have ignored my warnings and re-uploaded both files. I have blocked him for 24 hours. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:48, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Emperor Romanus
I have received word from several people that Emperor Romanus is sockpuppeting as User:Harvester360 and User:Lord Finnius. These three have also had very similar editing habits, with Finnius and Harvestor joining to aid Romanus in NotLAH, and when Romanus quit, they did too. He also has apparently used these accounts on the Map Game wiki and the Ultimate Map Game wiki. Mscoree (talk) 21:28, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Any other proof? Lordganon (talk) 09:53, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

I know Emperor Romanus in real life. They are Brothers. Mafia (talk) 14:33, September 3, 2013 (UTC) (Only just saw this)

Redirects
I have a question for an administrators or moderators on this site. On this page's infobox, when you click on king it automatically names the page incorrectly. I renamed the page correctly, and filled the page with information, only to have it deleted. I asked Lordganon for an explanation and help on correctly renaming/redirecting the page, but he instead ignored my several messages and kept deleting the pages. Finally he responded by temporarily banning me. I don't want my pages to be deleted, and I don't want to be banned, so I now ask here, what is the correct way to fix this? Mscoree (talk) 14:31, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * From what I have been able to deduced, it appears to be two minor syntax errors. The template NationInfo has a complex code to make it easier for new users to use.


 * The first is that you wrote the wrong timeline. You wrote "Battle for Earth Strikes Back! (Map Game)," while the timeline you want is "(Battle for Earth: Prime)." Because of the coding this infobox uses, it marked any redirects within the infobox as the timeline you wrote (not the one you wanted).


 * The second error is that you labeled the common name of your country as "Meridian," while the page you want clearly calls it "Meridian Consul."


 * In short, you got "List of Kings of Meridian (Battle for Earth Strikes Back! (Map Game))" and not "List of Kings of the Meridian Consul (Battle for Earth: Prime)." Luckily, there is a simple way to fix this, and I will fix it for you (so it should be solved by the time you read this).


 * As for the tiff you and LG are getting into, the complexity of your timeline and the use of distinctive naming differences between your main page and the subsequent ones will lead to more issues in the long run. The primary purpose for a redirect is to redirect a common alternative to the correct page, not to solve an issue that (from the looks of it) violates site rules. You and LG will have to come to a conclusion soon, and negativity will not go anywhere. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:49, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with Nuke on this one, mate. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:56, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Alright thanks for the claification. I'll try to do this in the future. Mscoree (talk) 04:30, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Wow. Ms did not say any of that to me. More importantly, almost none of the redirects in question had anything to do with what he claims. Somehow, not surprised. Lordganon (talk) 05:06, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Vandal
The Anonyimous Contributor  72.64.67.92 has vandalised several pages. I have reverted some (Sorry if I'm not supposed to) but they might have done more Local (talk)

They wrote this: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Easternized_World?oldid=770809

This person also vandalized a few of the Two Americas timeline.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 20:29, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought I got those Local (talk)

His page says he is blocked, so how is he posting Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 20:31, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

It's fine, I fixed them. And yes, I think you can undo edits by vandals, unless I am mistaken. Not too sure on the blocked thing...

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 20:32, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

No, no. Seiga just blocked him. :P Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:34, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Is it normal that non admins can revert edits? Local (talk)

I just did it again, it wasn't a fluke, why is that possible? Local (talk)


 * I'm sure LG will give him a permanent block when he gets here, nothing but a vandal. As to Local, thank you for helping out. As far as I am aware of, it shouldn't be anything but helpful to revert vandalized pages (grammatical corrections are also welcomed). The only think you can't do is vandalize (pretty straight forward) or expand on a page without the approval of the caretaker.


 * As for whether it is normal that non-admins do admin-esque work, I can't say. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I certainly wouldn't frown on it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:55, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Everyone can undo, but rollbacks/admins/bureaucrats can rollback, skipping the editing page.
 * 05:06, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Local, you didn't "revert" the vandalism - you went in, edited, and fixed it. All you can do is either that or using the "undo" feature. Only admins can use the "revert" feature.

That being said, well done with fixing it.

As to the block itself, that was proper. No need to use a permanent block on such anons, as they almost never come back. If they do, then we nail'em.

Lordganon (talk) 05:02, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Alternate History Memes??
Does anybody know the purpose of "Alternate History Memes"? This is not a meme site, and they dozens of files recently uploaded seem to serve no purpose aside from being memes.

Given the broadness used by Mscoree and OreoToast555 for the page in question, and the fact that they seem to show no present purpose, I would like to propose the deletion of this page and the many uploads related to it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:25, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

We could rename it to NotLAH memes, as it is essentially only notlah  OreoToast555(Talk) 04:31, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

These pictures are a funny explanation of the history of the NotLAH map game. These simple sentences chronicle the history, blood, sweat, and tears, and even, the very souls of the people involved. Where were you on the day of the Sealand Tea Party? An event of such magnitude, it started a near global war. What about the 11 September 1979 attacks on the Russian airport? These pictures explain what it was like. These pictures look through the ancient looking glass, and into the spirit of humanity itself. These are the voyages of the NotLAH enterprise. To boldly meme where no one has gone before. Mscoree (talk) 04:34, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

and you noticed he is STILL UPLOADING THEM after being asked not to  Wingman1 04:48, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

These memes are all in good fun. Please don't take offense to any of them. Mscoree (talk) 04:49, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

You was asked very nicely to stop, you are risking a block or a ban! Wingman1 04:52, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Just make it part of the NotLAH universe.

04:54, July 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have blocked both Mscoree and the page in question for three days (he has been warned by both LG and me about his attitude). I still see no point in keeping this page, irregardless of whether it is timeline oriented or not, and Mscoree's lack of reasoning at the present confirm my reasoning. I will wait for LG to look at the situation before any decision is made. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 05:07, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Slow down there, everyone. This was made in jest, a joke. This isn't worth a ban. Sure, it'd be better suited as a blog page, but there's no need to delete everything. Can't it be renamed to 'User:Mscoree/Memes' or something? Let's be reasonable here. Doctor Evulz (talk) 05:27, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I kinda thought it was funny, but I understand how someone could get offended. My suggestion (if it matters for anything) is to let the page stay as a community page or something, and if a user uploads something that is offensive to a specific person, then that person can take down what's offensive.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 11:07, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Erm hello. What on earth, a block for a page not even remotely offensive to anyone? I understand some users might not like their username to be present for the memes, and that can be fixed, but why would you block that page? The wiki needs to have pages like this, where users can laugh at the pictures. Now, I will rename the page for now, but I do not want a page such as that deleted. The game has done surprisingly well, better than anyone in the map gaming community expected, and is well on the way to finishing - a rare feat.

Therefore, these memes should be allowed as they go accuratrely demonstrate nations' actions, albiet in a funny manner. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:13, July 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would also like to shorten Mscoree's block, so that we can give him a chance to defend his works rather than us just assuming things, things which might not be true at all. His talkpage can now be edited by himself. Lets see what he has to say for himself. Plus, I agree it was not exactly the smartest thing to make a meme which disrespected Nuke. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:24, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Why is it I asked nicely to leave the page alone, and Imperium goes and alters not only the page, but my block on Mscoree? I am extremely disappointed, and have reverted Imperium's "help". --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:45, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'm with MP. Imp, that was a bit un-admin-ish of you, IMO.

17:41, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Alright everybody calm the Fu*k down. He posted memes about his map game. Maybe it should be renamed, and if there is one you find offensive, talk to Mscoree and we will see from there. Somehow He got banned and the page is going to die thpough, anyone think thtat is kinda stupid to have this huge deal over it.Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 17:46, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I found it funny, but let me say that you can't have a discussion about a page's problems if you block the prepertrators. I'd lock the page and we discuss it until we come up with a solution - a discussion in which all parties can be involved. As for my own opinion on the page, I think it should be more of a blog post type thing and I can see how the page could offend someone - which shouldn't be done, the stuff about Nuke was out of line. TBH I was a bit upset there was nothing about Austria-Germany on that page lol, I always find it interesting to hear someone talk about me. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:44, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I chuckled at some of them. That's worth shortening the ban. Also, I can't believe what a fit people are throwing at these things. CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 15:41, July 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I feel I should clarify, because many appear to be getting the wrong message. I informed the two users (OreoToaster555 and Mscoree) that I have made a discussion about their page and uploads (which I clearly state I opposed), and asked them politely to not continue working on the page until the issue can reach a consensus and wait until LG can take a look at it. Mscoree chose to ignore my request, and began uploading new material. Two of these were directed at me, which I took as him spiting my discussion. Given that he was previously blocked by LG days prior for harassment on him (which lasted for 24 hours), I extended a new block for three days, and explained to him why I did so. It was then I decided to protect the page in discussion for three days (to ensure no further additions).


 * The following day, ImperiumGuy (who has expressed his support for both Mscoree and the page) took it upon himself to work on the page I blocked by moving the page and removing some images, and unblocked Mscoree (only to then re-block him for a shorten time and giving him an ultimatum on how to keep the page). I then reverted the page, re-blocked Mscoree for three days, and asked Imperium why he did so (given the answer that he supported both and would now stay out of the issue). Now we are here.


 * I still oppose this idea on the grounds that I see this site as a serious place for writers and artists to work on their projects, not ICHC. Given the current consensus, it most likely will not be deleted, but it will have to be altered greatly. I will remove the files on me once LG takes a look at them, and Mscoree will not have his block altered in any manner. Nothing more will be done until LG can take a look at this. So I hope this clears up a few misunderstandings. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:09, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Nuke, well done.

Imp, not well done. That was improper, at best. You do not mess with things like that done by the other admins. It's a question of maintaining authority and mutual respect, along with the fact that it was without question a blockable offense. Don't do anything like that again.

Ms ignored a direct warning and did so in one of the most offensive ways he could have done so. Quite frankly, I'd have blocked him for a longer period of time. Nuke made his call, and we will stick with that, however.

The page itself as originally created was something not allowed on this wiki. Our rules are rather clear on that.

Quite frankly, unless something like that is created as a section of a user page, it is not allowed on here. Much of what is there is, quite frankly, offensive or attacking other users, which would not be allowed on a user page, either.

Considering all things, I will be adding a deletion note to the page in question, and deleting all of the offensive images. Ms can make a section of his user area for what is left, but I will not be making it for him.

Lordganon (talk) 05:18, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

I apologize greatly to anyone offended by these images, particularly the user Nuclear Vacuum. I also apologize for not partaking much in the mutual conversation to fix this matter while I was blocked. Thank you to everyone who supported me, and I’m glad I was the only casualty of this event.

Originally several people (names withheld to protect their real-world safety and identities) and I were in the live chat and were discussing certain matters in NotLAH, when I phrased sometime in the style of a meme. This was met by the response, “that should be a meme,” so we started making them. I uploaded a few, following Oreotoast, as did some other people. I was then contacted by Nuclear Vacuum, who instructed me to explain myself and stop for the time being, so I left the last batch uploading (in multiple tabs) and left a response to Nuclear Vacuum. As instructed/foreseen by bystander Wingman1, Nuclear Vacuum then banned me, citing that “he has been warned by both LG and me about his attitude”. To clarify, I am truly sorry for the offensive images, particularly the ones quoting/exaggerating/harassing/intimidating/bullying Nuclear Vacuum, which I believe crossed the line a bit. I was a bit saddened that I couldn't then engage in the conversation since I was banned. If you take note at the images logs, the frequency of uploads did decrease, but that is besides the point.

I apologize for not following Nuclear Vacuum’s direct order, in which he stated, “I request that you do not upload any new files until it has been resolved.” I think I was just confused because I thought the situation was prematurely resolved. When Lordganon arrived he helped to clarify the matter, stating it was “without question a blockable offense”, (which for the record I find strange since so many people questioned it; enough to reach the top five hot spots on the wiki). I will personally refresh myself on the rules since, “The page itself as originally created was something not allowed on this wiki. Our rules are rather clear on that”, and I was not aware. (Control + F searches have come up inconclusive).

I think the most pressing matter is the images deleted. Lordganon took the liberty of deleting twelve images, including one about Oreo that was made by Oreo, one that just said “Hail Marius”, which is a common phrase on the live chat, and several others. Most importantly, you deleted all the user ones, except one user. I personally will not stand for singling out a particular user, which where I live is a criminal offense in some situations. This offensive, direct insult at the particular user left intentionally intact, while the others removed? I can understand some, such as the vulgar and inappropriate attempt at humor directed at one, E Greg E, that read, “Heyo. Heyo Woot Woot Heyo,” but not the ones about Mscoree?

Off topic, but to address my current constable campaign, and the response that I’ve been blocked too recently/frequently to be a constable. I respect everyone’s votes and opinions, but I’d like to add something. Was Martin Luther King Jr. arrested too many times to be a civil rights leader, or was Nelson Mandela arrested for too long to be president of South Africa? I guess we’ll soon see. Thanks for reading my response thing, and again, I apologize for hurting the feelings of and disobeying Nuclear Vacuum, and for harassing Lordganon. (I assume they were referring to my questions about redirects. I’m somewhat afraid to ask questions now, if that is of any consolation).

Also on the note of redirects, from what I understand, redirects are allowed if they point a commonly used name to the correct article. Recently Lordganon deleted the Southwest League page because the only content was #REDIRECT North American League (Night of the Living Alternate History Map Game). This should be allowed since the organization was called the Southwest League until recently, and now there’s a bunch of broken links all over the place. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 18:13, July 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I will admit I was very surprised to see your response, and I greatly thank you for your apology. Also for the record, I did not block you because you ignored my request to stop uploading, I blocked you because of your offensive uploads on me (this was the "blockable offense" LG was talking about). Had you not uploaded those two files, I would've simply messaged you again asking you to stop (only blocking you had you continued to ignore me). I also find it too coincidental that you got my message while in the middle of posting files you made previously on the same user who just stated they did not like your meme page (not buying it).


 * You will have to talk with LG about the images he removed (because I was not part of their actual removal). If the users represented in those files support what was on it (and they don't have profanity on them), then I will be willing to revert them for you, but you are still responsible for moving them to a new page. As for your new redirect issue, this may stem from the fact that it is no longer canonized. If you are no longer using that article name in the timeline, there is no need to have a redirect for it. You can always go and rename all the links one by one (that's what I do, and there doesn't appear to be many), but you and LG will have to discuss this if you don't like this idea. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:20, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

You cannot blame being blocked for "not participating" in conversation. You failed to listen, so you lost that right while blocked. Simple.

After being warned to stop, you continued to upload the pictures. In an itself, not an immediately blockable offense, as Nuke has noted - but the manner in which you did it? Without question that was. You went out of your way to attack an administrator, not long after being warned to stop by that person. As I have noted before, had I seen it before Nuke did, you would have been blocked for a heck of a lot longer than that. Consider yourself lucky.

That page had barely anything to do with AH, and even more so, was not a timeline or having to do with one. Our rules are very explicit about such things - i.e. not allowing them. And rather than stop and allow a ruling, or whatnot, when asked, you continued to do it and went out of your way to insult an admin after being warned by them.

As already noted, the user ones went against our rules. And don't complain about the ones you put up about yourself. Not only are they not against the rules, but they're more or less just nonsense. That you would even think about complaining about images you put up yourself like that, about yourself, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

There is nothing "pressing" about that, not even remotely.

That you being blocked is a good reason to prevent you being a constable is the opinion of one of the users. They are entitled to it. I doubt it will be the primary reason for people voting "no," but it will be one - just like it was a reason for people to vote against or not support those two men.

I don't buy for a second that those images about Nuke were being uploaded while he was warning you.

You didn't "ask questions" in the first place.

Almost of of those redirects are because someone misspelled something, and it got perpetuated. That is when you fix it. After the second or third one is put in because of such mistakes, then it is without question a problem. Same applies for when something changes. Fix the links, simple.

And, for the record, Ms, don't lie to us.

Lordganon (talk) 06:36, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

For the record, the link is to Lordganon's impeachment trial, in which he wrote out a really long response. Let's try to be mature here, Lordganon, and not censor people who make you look bad. Mscoree (talk) 21:42, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Wow. That was below the belt. And you do know that LG won that vote resoundingly, right?

Look, I may not be his biggest fan (our arguments make the SALT II talks look like a couple of friends joking around) but frankly speaking, he's like the backbone of this wiki.

I'm not trying to make a point by putting that link. I linked it to show the really long response. The only reason I bring it up is becasue Lordganon decided to censor ir. Mscoree (talk) 15:41, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

How'd he censor it? The link still works, the page you are refering to is still there...

I ignored the insult that you did there before, Ms - hoped that removing it would work and not cause a ruckus or embarrassment to you. Apparently, not. I have removed it again.

Crossing something out doesn't erase the insult, fyi. It's like saying something insulting followed by "no offense." Doesn't change what you said/wrote.

Wish I could say I was surprised.

Lordganon (talk) 09:29, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Map Contest
For anyone who hasn't heard, I'm starting a 'Map Contest'. For details, go to my blog. I didn't know if I needed permission to create a page for it, so I'm asking, regardless, just to run it by you first. Thanks. CourageousLife (talk) 18:38, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Featured Alternate Histories
I noticed that someone nominated Night of the Living Alternate History (Map Game) for featured alternate history. Are map games allowed to be featured alternate histories? It follows all the guidelines, so I don't see why not. Mscoree (talk) 00:55, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

In theory, they are not barred. However... realistically, they aren't going to meet the basic requirements and follow the guidelines. That one definitely does not. Lordganon (talk) 06:06, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Anon Troll
I was reading a Notlah article and found This... I undid the edit when I saw it...

Dealt with. 3 days. Any admin feeling it is too short or long can edit the block span. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:12, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion of Lordganon - 12/07/2013
"Prologue: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#Hey, written by Imp. "

We, the People of the Alternate History Wiki, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish wiki Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence of wiki rights, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this declaration of reform.

'Here is a list of reasons of why Lordganon, an administrator of the Alternate History Wikia needs to change his current ways abruptly, or be impeached. These reasons are prevalent in the categories of attitude, inability to confront user’s about their works, deletion policy, and aggressiveness. These qualities need to be changed in order for Lordganon to be respected as an Admin. '

The following is Co Written by those in favor of Lordganon’s immediate change


 * Approaches users in an unfriendly manner that shows an to inability to confront a user calmly and respectfully. (http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:119090)
 * Displays an unfriendly, unhelpful attitude toward users not appropriate for administrators on a site where he is expected to interact with users in the manner he does or with ego that appears in his writing.
 * Maintains a delete first, ask later M.O. that leaves newer users confused (See Here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF#Alternate_History_Memes.3F.3F, his response, followed by Mscoree’s.).
 * Feels the need to talk as condescending as possible, using frequent italics, bold, and page breaks, leaving reads uncomfortable and ashamed. His writes to users uses a know-it-all attitude, in which even if a user replies with a valid well-researched point, he continues to deny whatever the user says. His incredibly long responses often leave a user intimidated and provoke further hostile argument. (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:120130. Long responses here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF/Archive_2#Response)
 * Is extremely unhelpful to new users, and can only say things are implausible, without presenting reasoning to convince the user. This also applies to explaining what needs changed on a timeline to remove the “ASB” label. (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#RT_II)
 * Deletes pages without informing the user, when asked about returning page, refusing to even assist in regathering the content, even when user states the page was a work in progress.
 * Imposing on the democratic mode of the wiki. Mainly due to aggressive “What I say goes” mentality.
 * Biased against other users in authority. Mainly appears to disregard their opinions in favor of his own. This is also seen in his treatment of users on their talk page and regard to their content.
 * Censorship of user opinions and direct changing of user’s own words including deleting a former link to a previous impeachment attempt (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alternative_History_talk%3ATSPTF&diff=774993&oldid=774985)
 * He cares more for admins than non-admins, as seen in the memes, where he only defended nuke.
 * Claims that people are in ignorance of the rules when he is insulted, and that it is obvious, despite that not always being true.
 * Refuses to explain rules and policies not clearly identified in the Wiki rules to new users before acting on them. When asked follow-up questions, has a “What I say goes” condescending tone in his writing. Meanwhile, NuclearVaccuum’s policy of warning users (ie. in file uploading policy) is much more apt.

We ask that Lordganon be given what the users see as apt time to change his attitude, deletion M.O., and aggressiveness toward new users, admins, and all Althistorians alike.We appreciate Lordganon’s contributions to the wiki (TL’s and administration alike), but do not appreciate the imposing manner in which he executes administrative authorities and duties.

Due to this we ask Lordganon to change his ways, as we do not want to lose his contributions.

We are prepared to protect our rights, as outline here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History:Conventions_in_use_in_this_wiki, and will defend this document from vandalizing and censorship.

User Opinions

I personally do believe that Lordganon has done a great deal of good work on this wiki, and I give credit where it is due. We simply ask for reformation, and the chance to have our voices heard. I personally was not very fond of the way he did things, and it nearly made me (and others) quit when we were first joining. He is notorious for reading every single page on the wiki, but don’t be fooled, this is to right short, unconstructive comments about them (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Holy_Roman_Empire_(Night_of_the_Living_Alternate_History_Map_Game) and http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#HRE). He’s shown hostility against me for simple stuff. He accused me of harassing him for asking him about redirects, and left me still unsure the correct procedure (See here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#Redirects). Mscoree (talk) 23:48, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Lordganon was once a really helpful user. All he tends to do now is edit to Doomsday:1983 and tell people that their timelines are Alien Space Bats-~TOB

Lordganon has made great contributions to this wiki and has maintained order and has kept this wiki in great quality. However his aggressive behaviour, biased opinions, and censorship is not acceptable. I suggest a temporary demotion-

Lordganon’s TL’s and administration work are among the best I’ve seen, however the manner that he approaches it in is unnecessary, and does not reference any works that could be used to the user’s advantage.

When I first joined the wiki, Lordganon immediately deleted one of my articles to do with the popular map game NotLAH. I figured this would be the experience of the wiki - I write a page, if its not substantial by the time I finalized my first update, it would be deleted. Luckily this is not true. However, Lordganon’s pomp ego and imprudence honestly would’ve scared me off if it had not been for more helpful admins such as Imp and Von, and other users such as UglyTurtle, Sine de Gloriem, and Wegscuba. When i asked about the article’s deletion, discovering I had improperly named it, thanks to Lordganon’s post - which also included how the information I had already typed had no relation to the timeline it was associated whatsoever - I asked him to help me recover my content, he ignored my request and follow up. I admire Lorganon’s historical knowledge and timeline work, his manner in approaching me was completely rude and insufficient in actual advice and assistance. His attitude and ego need to be checked at the door when he logs in to Althist for him to regain respect and admiration he once deserved.

I remember, many moons ago, my friend, Sasafred and I created a TL named the McDonalds Empire. While it was ultra ASB, it was good fun for about 30 minutes. Then LG showed up, and ranted about how it was spam, and how he was going to delete it. I moved it to another wiki, and he deleted it. While I understand his reasons, I still am mad at how he rained on our parade. Perhaps if he approached us in a more friendly manner, I'd have more respect for him. Bfoxius (talk) 23:55, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

When I first saw this wiki I was like so cool then I regestered and made my first timeline, one I started before I joined the wiki. I put it up and sunddly ASB. I felt this thing in my gut like is that bad, am I not welcome? Then I moved on to 1983: Doomsday. I made my first 1983:Doomsday articel American Kingdom. As soon as I made that it was suddly 'obs' i have aske Lordgragon multiple times and he will not tell me why. The olnly reason why it could be 'Obs' is because it has '''Illagitment claims. '''Lordragon needs to understand the people of the wiki. Octivian Marius (talk) 18:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

P.S McDOnalds Empire is FUNNY.

Infraction Evidence Summary Please post all links here, even if they are shown elsewhere in this document.
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alternative_History_talk%3ATSPTF&diff=774993&oldid=774985
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:119090
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Holy_Roman_Empire_(Night_of_the_Living_Alternate_History_Map_Game)
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#HRE
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Mscoree#Redirects
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#RT_II
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:120130 8. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF/Archive_2#Response
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF#Alternate_History_Memes.3F.3F
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lordganon
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Lordganon#Hey
 * http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/American_Kingdom_(1983:_Doomsday)?s=wldiff&diff=0&oldid=769253

Published on 12/07/2013

Signatures

 * Mscoree (talk) 23:48, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * canada2hy.jpg Hypothetical Alberta Blue Ensign.svg OreoToast555(Talk) 23:59, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 00:05, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bfoxius (talk) 00:05, July 13, 2013 (UTC) I approve of a reformation of LG's behaviour but it is too soon for a demotion of his rights.
 * Warman555
 * G greg e (talk) 00:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC) " I approve of this and ask LG to make efforts to change, however, enough time must pass before reevauluation or any possible impeachment"
 * Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:28, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Octivian Marius (talk) 17:53, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Aternix (talk) 06:19, August 25, 2013 (UTC) I do think that the way he treats people isn't acceptable, even at his position. Nobody should be looked down on, and to keep this wiki a lively and well respected place, I think that this is the right thing to do.
 * Darwin is God (talk) 06:50, August 25, 2013 (UTC) From all that I've seen I believe that LG is a good person but just needs to learn that sometimes you have to keep your mouth shut, however i don't think we need to take huge action.
 * NonEuclidean (talk) 19:57, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Edboy452 [[Image:Flag of Romania.svg|25px|border]] [[Image:Flag of German Reich (1935–1945).svg|25px|border]] [[Image:Flag of Israel.svg|25px|border]] [[Image:Flag of the Soviet Union.svg|25px|border]] (talk) 23:11, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tr0llis (talk) 23:13, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Harvenard2 (talk) 14:24, September 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fritzmet (talk) 16:31, September 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ratc3333 Here, Prepare for Combat (talk) 01:19, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Oh, like we haven't seen this before...

I do agree that LG can at times be a blunt with his remarks, but it is true that he is of enormous help to the wiki. Perhaps he has stepped down a little (can't make that call, since it was before my time), but he still is a valued member and not worth removing or demoting.

And even if you get a majority of the wiki to support you, what are you going to do? He's the head mod of the wiki and has most of the TSPTF and the community on his side.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 23:59, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * The point is not to demote him or remove any respect from him. The point of this to let LG know he needs to change how he treats groups of users on this wiki. G greg e (talk) 04:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Wait a second. TOB hasn't edited this, I check the history. SO WHY IS HIS SIGNATURE ON ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS?

TOB? What?

Any for the record, LG does help with getting back lost data from deleted pages. I've seen him do it before, and he's even done it for my sandbox when I was relatively new. Not sure if anyone remembers or cares about that, but I thought it would be helpful.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 00:04, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

This isn't an impeachment. The rules state that the issue must be discussed here so that it can be potentially fixed. Mscoree (talk) 00:07, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

TOB; The old baby

As I thought. In fact, Ms added TOB's sig. [ [1]] If you scroll down to the User opinions part of the page, you can see that Ms added that sig. It may be that TOB said something similar elsewhere, but in that case Ms should have noted that underneath.

We wrote this together before I posted it. All parts marked with others' signatures is the part they themselves wrote. Mscoree (talk) 00:10, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah i was really tires, had a long day, and i posted now, so hi everybod :D Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:30, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

I sincerely doubt that this will accomplish what it is supposed to do. And trying something like this won't make LG less biased towards certain people, if you catch my meaning.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 00:12, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * How will it not. They've taken appropriate steps to notify him of the problem at hand, and the changes they would like. It is up to LG to make a honorable attempt to change and recongnize the problem at hand in a civil and appropriate mannor. G greg e (talk) 04:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * It won't do anything because even though LG can be brusque, he won't give in to this and practically the entire wiki will refuse to have him impeached.
 * I at least am not asking to impeach LG - and believe currently no one is, i am asking him to recognize how he comes off in his tone writing and helpfulness and attempt to make a change. I want that to be clear to you as you continue to ignore that. G greg e (talk) 17:41, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ok, if that was what you were trying to do you'd message him. But anyway, I believe damn near every user on this wiki has informed LG how he comes off, and guess what? It doesn't really help. Do what the rest of us do and either live with it or grow a pair and argue till hell freezes over. (jk, the lattter one does tend to end up in large scale edit wars). We don't ignore, the problem is that there's nothing we can do. For everything LG does that pisses the rest of us off, he does ten things we barely notice but actually help us massively. And this is the follow up to impeachment, so if you don't want him impeached, then what the hell are you doing?
 * Seriously, its like you didnt even even read what was written.  What "the hell" i am doing is asking him to try to make a change, because you are correct, there is nothing you or I can really do about it except ask him to make a change, and hope that he makes an effort. Also as stated there was a prologue to this written on his wall. Again I recognize LG's importance and do not want him impeached, but I do want him to attempt to make an effort to be 'nicer' to users  G greg e (talk) 05:59, July 18, 2013 (UTC) I also understand the amount of work LG and others do, and would like to take the time to thank them here. While they do deal with rude and condescending people everyday, amoung trolls, vandilism, and other things, it is still important to maintain a "smile on your face" whenever you can. Nevertheless, Best Regards, G greg e (talk) 06:03, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I did read what is written. But, you still haven't answered the question. If you don't want to impeach LG then why have you started the required stages to impeachment? That's like buying a car then claiming you don't want to drive. IF YOU WANTED TO GET HIM TO CHANGE, YOU WOULD HAVE TALKED TO HIM. You don't put a gun to someone's head and then ask politely. And by the way, LG isn't generally rude, he's just brusque. He'll tell you something is ASB. Want to know why it's ASB? Take the time to efffing ask him. That's what I do and it always works.

Trying is right. Attempting to impeach LG didn't work last time, it probably won't this time. While I agree that LG could be nicer, frankly, he is who he is, and without him, this wiki would be a much sadder place. All this will do is stir up the wiki. Don't do this.

I'm with MP and Guns so far.

00:17, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

I personally think Lordganon does a great job for the wiki and i admire and respect his work. However, his display of opinion and attitute towards others is not that of which an admin's should be. G greg e (talk) 00:21, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh boy, this again. You guys hype up how 'villainous' LG is, his bluntness becomes unkindness, his proclamations of ASB become parade-raining, and his power becomes his tyranny. I'd like to see someone who has all of LG's responsibilities, someone who handles an enormous workload with punctuality, someone supposedly so dastardly that he/she still somehow has the support of so many editors that isn't a bit grumpy.

We've crossed the event horizon, however, and the only way we'll be through with this is to continue on our current course. So go on, have your trial, see where the alternate historians' opinions lie, have a vote, and let's bury this business again. You have my support, LG. Jazon Naparleon  (talk) 01:18, July 13, 2013
 * As I said before. This is not an impeachment nor a trial. There is no voting (on anything yet). We are discussing, as required here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History:Request_for_user_rights#Impeachment.

To whoever wrote the above. I recognize and thank LG for his support of the wiki and recognize at times that there may situations in which he is in a bad mood or is set off by something. I think that what is trying to be stated is that it has become too commonplace and that it is unsure if he recognizes the problems of how people perceive his actions. Once again, LG is respected and admired by many for his work, and for this i support him. The point is not to impeach or demote or even humiliate him in any wya, but rather inform him of the situation. Hopefully, it can be rectified and respect and admiration to LG from all members can restored. G greg e (talk) 04:08, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, event horizon hasn't been crossed yet. Let's be honest, LG neither will nor should concede to this, and that's when Ms gets the choice of impeaching LG or letting this whole thing die. Hopefully, he'll do the latter. If not, we'll go through the same thing we did a year and a half ago.

So, i highly doubt this will be an endless cycle. Oh and that reminds me, didnt he DELETE the file of his preveousimpeachment file, which is why we cant find it. Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:46, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Umm... BS, it's in the section marked Archive 2. His impeachment file that is. SERIOUSLY guys? Here Allow me to look for you. Happy? LG's impeachment file, and all. He didn't delete anything,

"When I first saw this wiki I was like so cool then I regestered and made my first timeline, one I started before I joined the wiki. I put it up and sunddly ASB. I felt this thing in my gut like is that bad, am I not welcome? Then I moved on to 1983: Doomsday. I made my first 1983:Doomsday articel American Kingdom. As soon as I made that it was suddly 'obs' i have aske Lordgragon multiple times and he will not tell me why. The olnly reason why it could be 'Obs' is because it has Illagitment claims. Lordragon needs to understand the people of the wiki.  Octivian Marius(talk) 18:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC)"
 * Oh, i didnt see that., nvm then Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 14:01, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * This file is linked in our declaration. Mscoree (talk) 15:46, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Right. And LG didn't delete anything...
 * Please read what we actually write before jumping on the bandwagon. He deleted this: http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alternative_History_talk%3ATSPTF&diff=774993&oldid=774985  Dean
 * I know what he deleted, but TOB thought that he deleted the entire file.
 * I am not signing, but I would like to say that if all I think is that he should try to consider what the user wants to happen in their timeline, and if the POD is ASB, tell them a better one, or tell them why the result is ASB. I do understand that he is very busy though. I definitely don't think he should be impeached, but that is just my opinion on this Mafia (talk)
 * Well, I mean, ASB doesn't mean that it's a bad TL, or even that it can't be featured. One of the best TLs on this wiki is majorly ASB. But while I do agree that he needs to be more patient, honestly, cut him some slack. He effectively checks up on every single new edit on this wiki. If he bothered to explain every single thing in exquisite detail, he'd be unable to do anything else.
 * I know, that is why I haven't signed Mafia (talk)
 * Guys, come on, let's all calm down. I get why you guys are angry, and though I agreed with LG over the memes, he is a little brusque. But this is totally uncalled for. End this, Ms. After all, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride then we'd see the day that nobody died!
 * I prefer Rockstar myself. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:23, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Have to agree. Woe be on the poor souls that are cursed with Nickelback in their ears! :D Just saying! 20:16, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I like Rockstar better too, but dammit, you try working that into a relevent sentence here.

I completely love this short passage. "Regestered" "sunddly" "articel" "obs" "olnly" "Lordgragon" "Illagitment claims" and "Lordragon" really lifted my spirits. Three cheers for Octivian! :D

05:36, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Well, you what they say: Idiotic posts with bad grammar will be flamed without warning! Someone find me Salnax. (We may need Eoguy, too)

And Octavian, shit, I saw your article and laughed so hard I fell off my chair. While you have the spirit, trust me, that was ASB. ASB isn't bad, so continue with the TL. It's just not accepted by 83DD.

For an in depth reason as to why it's ASB contact me, and I'll help you fix it.

But you can't blame LG for this, because both Ms and Yank chimed in with the exact same opinion.

Ok, so this is going nowhere and Ms has basically gone AWOL.

BTW, I'm just wondering if User:Oreotoast and User:OreoToast555 are the same. I mean, same name, practically same start date, the former immediately goes to AvA (which the latter also plays) and edits 15 times, all on that, before leaving.

Suspicions, anyone?

Wasn't this resolved this does not need to be brought back up to the forefront. LG does good work and has my respect for the prompt and professional way he responded. Professionalism seems to be a thing he values and being blunt is sometimes a consequence. This matter has been closed for awhile now and if rather not see it brought back up because of a minor issue. This is not my signature of approval for LGs removal or demotion I am merely stating my opinion --#LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 06:54, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism
67.142.182.23   (Talk) vandalized the The Socialist World Republic article, by putting a new category 'Retarded' on it. Category: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Retarded Just letting you know. I reverted the edit though Mafia (talk)

I added the delete template to the category as well.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 01:58, July 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I deleted the category. Completely deletable. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:49, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Affiliation
I have an issue I would like to discuss with other members of the TSPTF. WikiBuilder1147 has asked me whether his wiki - Infinate Histories Wiki could become afflicted with us. I have asked him as to what this would mean.

I think it would be an interesting idea - however, I would like to know what other members think?

Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:13, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

He nailed the shit out of spelling of the word 'infinite' CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 19:17, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

It's tiny wiki. Seriously, 5 active users according to them (I read it on a recent blog post there). Instead of a merger, let's pull off a hostile takeover...

can you post a link to it? Wingman1 04:33, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Here: Have fun.

thanks, i will! ;)    Wingman1 05:21, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Don't know why that guy messaged you in particular, Imp. Meh.

Yeah, I figure the answer would be a no. This isn't a guy we know, his wiki is tiny, both in articles and users, and brand-new. Has the exact same content, more or less, as we have on here as well.

Really, they should have just started writing all that on here.

Lordganon (talk) 13:17, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

So... Hostile takeover?

Naw. Just something to have in mind if we hear from him again. Lordganon (talk) 12:23, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'll tell him about our desicion then. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:24, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Duplicate site
Look what I found...
 * Good find. Pay special attention to this run-on sentence on the frontpage: I hope this wiki will grow better and faster than its predecessor, Alternate History Wiki, which had started out fine but now has two many power hungry lieutenants and leaders that can and actually do ban someone just because they were being a little on the implausible side, or some people actually had more than one account, just because on froze one day and they wanted to still participate, created another one and got instantly banned for sockpuppetting when they weren't doing it on purpose, this wiki is meant to be the new Alternate History Wiki, and we hope that you will help us make it that. --NFSreloaded (talk) 09:26, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Same twits as usual doing that one, I see. Figures.

Meh. That thing is more or less entirely out of use. Not going to complain about it to Wikia, not worth the semi-arguing to get them to listen.

Lordganon (talk) 12:26, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the definition for what this is
This user: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:SmileDog.jpg has not edited, and has used this wiki for the chat, were they say stuff that makes no sense. I don't know why, or if this is allowed. Example:

SmileDog.jpg Revenge will be sweet! When the curse is complete! In smile of the night! She'll be SMILE!

and then leaves, so I reported it here Mafia (talk)

Seems very random. I've banned him from our chat. Lordganon (talk) 07:16, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

It's based on the Smile.jpg creepypasta. He's just trying to freaking people out. The Doctor is in... 16:10, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Amateur Mayanist
108.56.196.116. I know he is not doing anything wrong. But, he writing a lot of things in many talkpages about "correct term/spelling" in Mayan language. He is, however, remaining anonymous and still not joining this wiki. Also, it seems many of his suggestion about Mayan language still unverifiable without any existing dictionary that can prove his argument. What policies will be taken about this case? FirstStooge (talk) 19:44, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Seems harmless to me. Hell, that's pretty helpful CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 05:31, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

He hasn't done anything wrong at all. Why on earth would we do anything? Lordganon (talk) 09:24, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Since there is nothing wrong, I just want to invite him to join this wiki FirstStooge (talk) 09:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

If they want to join, they'll do it when they are ready =) Lordganon (talk) 10:18, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, LG. Someone like him (or maybe her) who understand about the languages such Mayan will become an advantage for this wiki. (^_^) FirstStooge (talk) 12:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Far as me and Red can tell, he doesn't understand anything - seems to be blowing smoke. Lordganon (talk) 06:51, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

What is "blowing smoke" mean? FirstStooge (talk) 13:08, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Blowing smoke means to say things that are not true in order to make yourself or something you are involved with seem better than it is. Basically Lordganon is saying that he thinks this person is incorrect or bluffing. Mscoree (talk) 01:42, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

So, is it means the person was inserting the false information? FirstStooge (talk) 02:54, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Not quite, Ms. What it means is that he's pretending to know something that he doesn't. Trying to look smarter and far more knowledgeable than they are.

Both myself and Red have looked into it, and can't find any of what he's saying. A few parts of it, what we can find even contradicts him. One of the early claims, I even found something that stated part of it was without question wrong.

No, Stooge, not that - it's pretty much just "advice" he is putting on talk pages. So far, at least. Been warned now that he tried messing with one of the pages, will block as needed past that.

Lordganon (talk) 12:04, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ne, arasseo, LG FirstStooge (talk) 14:31, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Clearly two accounts
I have informed AkiyamaIV about duplication for months now. I just blocked him for three days, and noticed a new user uploading the exact same files. This user is named W.Liberty, and it clearly is the same guy (the new user is also using the previous avatar used by first).

Regardless, both have made no edits aside from uploading files (reminding me of Sunlord and Gl78064), and not answering his talk page. Both are now duplicating files. Not sure if this is being a sockpuppet or simply the user wishing to "change his name." I will be blocking the new user for duplications. Any thoughts on a potential sockpuppet? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a pretty clear one. Trying to get around the block, too. I'll block them accordingly. Lordganon (talk) 06:52, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Groß-Deutschland
An anonymous user with IP 92.13.88.215 keep making the illegal edit on Groß-Deutschland timeline. Please the admins at least giving him warning, since he not listening to me for not doing that. And, please not banning him, he only need to get persuade to join this wiki and make his own TL, instead illegally editing other people's TL. FirstStooge (talk) 20:47, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

You left him a note, and he undid my notes twice. He's been blocked for a few days. Lordganon (talk) 06:54, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Sockpuppet?
I'm just wondering if User:Oreotoast and User:OreoToast555 are the same. I mean, same name, practically same start date, the former immediately goes to AvA (which the latter also plays) and edits 15 times, all on that, before leaving.

Suspicions, anyone?

Indeed. I'll leave him a note and ask. If he created a second account becuase he did not like the name of the first or something, the first one should be indefinately blocked and business continues as usual. From what I can gather, the first account has only been used for 15 edits, nothing major. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:55, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

After talking to him about it, he openly admitted that it was his account and he had forgotten his password, and therefore had created his second account. He even went on to say that his old account should be blocked as he only edits from his second account. The account has been blocked for 1000 years (or what we like to call infinite amount of time, lol) and I think that should be the end of it. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:29, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hacked
Capt.Stark1972 had his account hacked, and has changed to Ratc3333, so please block his old one Mafia (talk)

Done. Lordganon (talk) 06:26, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting
I think that Angreemann2, Prueman88, Lynxes21 are sockpuppets of Warman555, as they all joined 1 game, all allied, and all the user names are similar, and none of them know how to sign their name. Mafia (talk) 14:16, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I would ask LG to run an IP scan. Have you asked him [Warman] about this? I do hope he knows sockpuppeting is not allowed on this wiki. I presume he has been here long enough to know that. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:26, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I dont think Prueman88 is connected with Warman, as the writing styles are unique. However, there is clearly a connection in the joining time, games played, and edit style of Angreemann2 and Prueman88. Again though I could be wrong G greg e (talk) 14:36, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yup, Prueman88 is probably not Warman. Prue has a lot better spelling/grammar. I think Angreemann2 and Prueman88 are though. I'll talk to him about it. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 14:46, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

i dont have sockpuppets Warman555

Prueman88 says that Angreemann2 is his brother. Not sure what to make of this. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 20:02, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Give them some time and see if they develop any other favorite wikis? G greg e (talk) 20:36, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Can't prove the two aren't brothers.

Wikia's changed their policy for an IP check - the potential sockpuppetting violating rules isn't good enough anymore. They have to be trying to use it to their advantage in some form.

Have these guys done that?

Lordganon (talk) 10:14, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well I doubt there's a connection between Angreemann2/Prueman88 and Lynxes21, since Lynxes 21 is Sweden. Prueman's Colombia and Angreeann's Mexico. They have signed an alliance/mutual defense pact but that could be because they are brothers... they haven't explicitly tried to do something to their each other yet, but I'll keep an eye on them. PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 12:41, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Second they start aiding each other too much, let me know. Lordganon (talk) 10:51, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Chat mod issues
I think we need chat mods cause the fights on chat and offinsive jokes and spaming and continued cussing. Warman555

Yeah I think we could also do with some more policing of the chat, it can get rather insulting... VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:12, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

we need chat mods so ill be chat police  leader Warman555

We have chat mods. They get on fairly frequently. The Doctor is in... 20:45, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Erm *cough* I just try to be lenient *cough*.

If you have a problem with what happens, I'll be strict. Chat is meant to be a place to let your hair down. If anyone gets offended, please talk to me and I will sort it out. Plus, we usually do have chat mods on there, whether it is me, Viva, Von or Kogasa - we are usually around. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:05, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

@Warman555 You better read OreoToast555's blog post here if you want to be a chat mod. FirstStooge (talk) 04:22, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

We have more than enough people to moderate that chat, War. If you see improper behavior when none are around, just let us know, and it will be dealt with. Lordganon (talk) 10:11, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Umm...Warman is one of the worst people on chat... Mafia (talk) 13:06, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

He constantly spams links to a website that (I don't know if he is aware), my virus checkers says is not trustworthy. Mafia (talk)

As it Stands Warman on multiple occasions has called me a dick, and asshole and voices his dislike of me in a very outright and offesnsive manner at some points. as it stands he consistantly yells at me for map games in which he thinks he turns are plausible that ive crossed out (cause they are ridiculously implausible) he also yells at me for other things and continually cusses at me. For Future reference Warman is in fact one of the worst people on chat and show little to no restraint and shows consistant behavior that would warrant the boot. He Also as Mafia said will have certain days where he just picks a random website and will spam it like nobodies buisiness for most of the time im on chat, or will just continually hit the spacebar and keep the spam train rolling. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 15:08, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Have now blocked him for the chat for a month, and the wiki for a week for being offensive to others.

Next time say something soon as it happens, eh?

Lordganon (talk) 10:54, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Cyberbullying?
local keeps cyberbullying for no reason and so is fudal i ask the adims to do somthing about them ~Warman

I said he can't play as China in a game that isn't even on here, because The Old Baby 2 is playing as them, and I also said that I don't think he should play as major Nations, as he is very implausible, and changes nation a lot, so I feel he is not suited to Major nations. If I have caused offense, I apoligize. Mafia (talk) 14:42, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

I would also like to report him for cyberbullying, as he swears at me, and says that no one cares when I am trying to help him, by telling him how to sign his posts, he said 'No one gives a shite', and he said 'local u (sic) blame me for bull shit reasons' and, in a similar vein 'l ocal u (sic) have caused so proplems u (sic) blame for shitty reasons' Mafia (talk) 14:48, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

As it Stands Warman on multiple occasions has called me a dick, and asshole and voices his dislike of me in a very outright and offesnsive manner at some points. as it stands he consistantly yells at me for map games in which he thinks he turns are plausible that ive crossed out (cause they are ridiculously implausible) he also yells at me for other things and continually cusses at me. For Future reference Warman is in fact one of the worst people on chat and show little to no restraint and shows consistant behavior that would warrant the boot. He Also as Mafia said will have certain days where he just picks a random website and will spam it like nobodies buisiness for most of the time im on chat, or will just continually hit the spacebar and keep the spam train rolling.sorry if there has been an issue here #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 15:08, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Blocked from the chat for a month, and the wiki for a week.

Say something sooner next time, eh?

Lordganon (talk) 10:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Isn't it too obscene?
I think the timeline Byzantium Vs. The Roman Empire that written by user HerrWolf88 being too obscene in feature. FirstStooge (talk) 07:10, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Very much so. This isn't some sort of porn site, for pete's sake. Lordganon (talk) 10:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Should HerrWolf88 get blocked and his TL get deleted quickly? I think he is just trolling around on this wiki. FirstStooge (talk) 11:17, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Could be, but I won't block him unless he does it again. Lordganon (talk) 12:36, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Reminds me of that one Hitler thingy a few months ago... writing smile seems pretty similar and the username is of German origin (Herr)... think they're the same person? PitaKang- My Life for Aiur! En Taro Tassadar 13:02, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Probably not. Chalk any similarities up to trolls just looking alike in general. Lordganon (talk) 11:10, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Troll?
User Zanbaq1 posting a blog post that explain something about such a prophecy, Nibiru, etc, etc. Maybe he not did something wrong...yet. Please keep an eye on him, I believe he is just a troll that want to spread such a nonsense thing into this wiki. FirstStooge (talk) 07:22, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Without question a troll. Blocked and deleted. Lordganon (talk) 12:53, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, LG :) FirstStooge (talk) 01:12, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Sockpuppets
I believe that Aternix may be sockpuppeting Darwin is God. Aternix claims that Darwin is his friend in real life, but they have really similar post habits (See here, Philippines and Burma). While viewing their editing history I noticed that Darwin joined the wiki and signed up for games that Aternix is a part of. I know personally that in NotLAH the two are nearby nations. Mscoree (talk) 02:02, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

The style of the posts seems different to me, with regards to grammar and words.

Overall, though, we have to at least somewhat take them at their word. Unless they seem to be conspiring together, or excessively cooperating, going by the new wikia policy, there's not too much I can do.

Second either of those changes, let me know.

Lordganon (talk) 10:40, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Troll?
An anon created this: Aboutuukkd.

Another Troll
Ilikehistory has been spamming and trolling chat. He shows a little interest in the site, but when asked to stop spamming just continues to do so. Best Regards, g greg e   (talk)  22:20, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting + Spam
I believe users WilhelmIII and Ilikehistory are the same person as they uploaded the same file (Nuke already deleted it). If I don't wrong, I remember Ilikehistory also creating a page titled "Qing doing something with the japenenese flag" with the file from WilhelmIII and then re-uploaded a duplicated file with a different name (Nuke also deleted it). Now, Ilikehistory also used WilhelmIII's pict on his user page (China and japan.png). Also, in his user page, Ilikehistory wrote:

"I like history" ---> WilhelmIII also wrote similarly on his own user page

"Heres my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtn6G4G9D2wJO-0rA8_hqmA

You might be thinking 'Does he have the same channel like WilhelmIII?''" ---> See? He thought we are fool enough for not knowing they are a same person

FirstStooge (talk) 04:08, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that one is a bit obvious. Blocks added. Lordganon (talk) 11:43, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

They were on chat at the same time... I don't know what difference that makes Mafia (talk) 12:43, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Less than you'd think. All you need is two different browsers and you can do that. That chat also doesn't withdraw you immediately, as well. Lordganon (talk) 12:57, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Illegal editing?
IP 68.199.190.115 keep editing page President John F. Kennedy, Jr. that is not his own although I already undoing his edit several time. Maybe he is not vandalizing, but it is still illegal. Why I supposed to do because I want to avoid an edit war with him? FirstStooge (talk) 06:25, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, he is vandalizing. Blocked.

As for what to do, undo the edits if you want, but know I'll catch the bugger when I go through the edited list ;)

Lordganon (talk) 10:43, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. LG, you are the best :D FirstStooge (talk) 11:09, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Something new?
I don't know how to react about this, but I never see something like this before? Is it against our Wiki convention? FirstStooge (talk) 02:41, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ayup. Tag added. Lordganon (talk) 14:02, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Imp
The user Imperium Guy has recently used admin rollback powers to vandalize an algorithm on NotLAH. Rather than question me in the discussion, he reverted multiple edits and threatened me, by saying, "Don't ever do that again." I'm not sure what to do, as I can't undo his rollback. Perhaps we can have a civilized conversation here and fix his edits. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 20:49, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

I think I'll just do it manuelly. Mscoree (talk) 20:55, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

It was quicker rather than undoing his undoing of my posts. And I think a map game problem should stay on a map game  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:07, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it should have without question stayed there. But now I have to deal with it. Somehow, I'm not surprised.

Both of you need to cut it out, overall.

Now, as to your dispute...

Imp, while I can find precedent in those algorithms for both arguments, none of the other ones with South Africa have it laid out like that. Basically, you're not getting that there. As the controller of that nation, you can change that to reflect the situation you argue, but you'd have to do that in the game.

However? It is very obvious that you, Ms, are metagaming things. The mod events are in your favor quite consistently, you go into ASB-land with how you claim to combat the SA invasion of Angola (for example, impossible to get those troops there that fast in that amount) and that you use the US figures in that table without any reason in that algorithm, despite your stated troop numbers.

So, while Imp is wrong at this time about the nations, I have to conclude that your claimed result, Ms, is also wrong.

Lordganon (talk) 13:25, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I will be changing this soon enough. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:12, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure what you mean about metagaming, and if you'd care to go into more detail that would be much appreciated. In regards to the number of soldiers, I already had forces in Africa because of the Trans-Saharan Counterterrorism Initiative, and I spent three to five months moving my forces from Europe, North Africa, and North America to the Congo. My forces only accounted for about 36% of the coalition, as several other nations also send troops. Usually in the moderator events I recap some of the things that happened in the last turn, which is why I write stuff like "American and NATO forces successfully enter South African occupied Angola", as that happened in an algorithm last turn, and I am filling everyone in. In the algorithm I made the decision to use the American scores since the United States was leading the attack at the time. This actually weakened me since the United States did not have the highest scores out of the people attacking, so if anything I was actually handicapping myself. Anyway, sorry for bringing this here. At the time I didn't know how to undo a rollback and was hoping an admin could help. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 15:30, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice all that before. And you're still wrong about it.

"Metagaming" is when someone is using their powers to bend the game/rules for their own benefit. That is exactly what you are doing.

And now, you are making demands that are quite literally insane. Obscene, really.

So, let me make this very clear: Fix that algorithm, and make/learn (to do) reasonable requests. I've seen far too much squabbling in that game because of you failing to do both, and I've now had it.

Lordganon (talk) 13:47, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't matter now LG, I quit that shitfest. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:59, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I still don't know what you're talking about, Lordganon. Again, if you would cite a specific source or example then I would be able to assess your claims. Furthermore, I refuse to let an uninformed person make demands for a game they do not play. If you can illustrate a repeated history of me failing to fix algorithms and make reasonable claims, then that would also be helpful. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 03:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure LG has a rough idea of what goes on all over the wiki. He's the all knowing, all seeing, all hearing. Your game is no exception.

03:48, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * And the common misconception that LG has never played a map game is also not true. He played the Scramble for Africa (Map Game) as was a moderator. LG has seen it all, lol. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:57, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

So many promising games have ended this close to their finish. Imp has quit the shitfest. The shitfest shall now soon quit the wiki.

I never said that Lordganon didn't play a map game. I am well aware that he has. All of this, and everyone else's comments have nothing to do with the original problem, which was how to undo a rollback. Anyway, Imp's edits to the algorithm have already been fixed. As for making demands to his nation, those were in character, and therefore they may be ridiculous. If you don't like them you can reject them, which he has. Mscoree (talk) 14:16, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, he doesn't anymore. Says he doesn't touch them. I think he once played Scramble for Africa. But that was a long, long, long time ago. Right in the dawn of map games on this wiki.

Personally, I really don't understand about the main point of this discussion, TBH. (^^") FirstStooge (talk) 14:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

So Ms is blaming Imp for vandalizing and metagaming. Turns out he wasn't vandalizing and the metagaming is still iffy. Imp and LG have countered claiming that Ms metagames. Imp has now quit Notlah. The original edits are fixed. People are angry.

What is 'metagaming' means? FirstStooge (talk) 14:57, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Guns is completely wrong. This conversation was about me asking for help on how to undo a rollback. This ensued. Also, as I have said already, I am aware that Lordganon played on Scramble for Africa. I never claimed he didn't, and I think it's quite clear now. Mscoree (talk) 18:13, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

...  and I quote, 'The user Imperium Guy has recently used admin rollback powers to vandalize an algorithm on NotLAH.'. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 13:25, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

That was background knowledge as to why I needed help. Mscoree (talk) 16:06, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

To clarify on what I said earlier, I know that Lordganon has played map games in the past and is quite experienced on this wiki. What I meant by 'uninformed' was that since he doesn't play NotLAH, he probably didn't understand all the politics and backstory of the game in regards to South Africa. Mscoree (talk) 16:15, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Except, you know, he reads every single edit made on the wiki (as far as I can tell).

Oh, I'm well aware of the "history" and "politics" in your game - or, rather the lack thereof. More or less like anything with your game.

This is a very obvious case of you failing to do both of those. Which, quite frankly, has happened rather constantly.

Imp, whether you quit it or not, the point still needs to be made.

Yeah, I do read most of them.

Trying to pass bad behavior off as being "in character" does you no good. All you're managing to do is look like an ass, truthfully.

So, let me be very clear: Fix the algorithms, and even more so, make reasonable demands.

Lordganon (talk) 13:15, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

So, Ms more or less forced my hand on this one - he refused to even consider my ruling. As a result, I've instituted it myself. Ms has been given a similar penalty to the one Scan got in PR for doing the same thing. Wasn't too shocked, truth be told - in line with earlier behavior by him.

Apologies for stepping on toes in the process.

Lordganon (talk) 11:45, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Homesun's back
Recently a user by the name of Homesun altered one of my maps and began working on a. I reverted his edits and protected the pages to prevent further edits, and requested an explanation (which I have yet to receive [will update if he does]).

Looking into the matter, I see that he has been warned previously about edits pages that weren't his (or had permission to do so). I thought it should be brought up, and I have informed him of this discussion. I'll give him a chance to explain himself, and leave any discipline open for LG to deal with. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:40, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Three day block since we hadn't actually blocked him before. Lordganon (talk) 12:20, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

TSPTF was vandalized
This people ---> Alex0225, had been vandalized the TSPTF page by wrote some gibberish words. That was his first edit on this wiki and maybe he will come up other vandalism next. FirstStooge (talk) 03:33, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

His history on other sites (along with his brief history on our site thus far) proves that he's not really looking to do anything constructive. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 01:03, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I knew it. He's even already get blocked on the two of that wikis. FirstStooge (talk) 01:07, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Warman555!
This user got caught by me for illegally nominated the page with active user for deletion and wrote such a gibberish on the map game. FirstStooge (talk) 01:22, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I offered my opinion on the talk page of the first one to counteract his reasons, but other than that I think we should wait and see what happens.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 01:32, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

im sorry Warman555 (talk) 13:21, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Did you sincerely apologizes, Warman? FirstStooge (talk) 14:24, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

No offense- i don't think warman is a troll, anyway, but asking one if they are such (a troll), is like asking a pathological liar if he killed someone.

You go for the opposite!

No, Guns. Warman is still a 11th grader, he is still young. His behaviour is because doesn't know a lot about the thing enough. That's why I asked him personally to apologize to the TSPTF and not took a more strict action regarding him. He just need to learn. FirstStooge (talk) 16:35, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

11th grader's aren't that stupid. I joined this site in the 10th grade and I knew not to do that shit right from the get-go. He's a troll and there's really no excuse for his recent behavior, be it here or on other pages. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 17:28, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Good. Can he get blocked soon? FirstStooge (talk) 17:35, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I have no objection to that.

17:54, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

His posts on PM2 as Persa are far from perfect too, but I don't think he should be blocked really VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:48, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Von stooge threatend to block me cause i gave a warning to the user who vandalized the TSPTF page Warman555 (talk) 23:49, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

How can I block you if I am not even a TSPTF member, kid? That is warning, not a threat because you don't need to give any warning to that user, that is not your business. FirstStooge (talk) 00:04, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

then how is tht your business kid? Warman555 (talk) 00:07, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

And thus you begin your trolling again. Everything is everyone's matter is we want to established a sound, stable, and near-perfect society.

00:38, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

No wonder Warman got banned from the chat. He even talk abruptly to me who nominally older than him in TSPTF talk page. If he was angry because I referred him as "kid", then his age as "11th grader" on his user page is a fake one. And, one of usual troll characteristics is they always putting a false information. Warman, are you want to speak to me like that again and get yourself strongly accused as a troll? FirstStooge (talk) 00:57, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

FS, Warman really did not do anything wrong here - and it certainly isn't your place to go off on him like that even if he had. Dial it back. Same to you, SS. Lordganon (talk) 11:50, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

FS, I'm probably younger than him. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 11:54, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm younger than warman... Mafia (talk) 14:28, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yea, so am I.  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:36, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yank stole persia from me in PM2 i would like something to be done about it please Warman555 (talk) 20:47, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, LG. I realized I went over the limit myself regarding Warman. As a candidate for the TSPTF membership, I feel ashamed with my own action and I will take a hiatus for a week as a responsibility. FirstStooge (talk) 21:32, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Stooge, you don't have to punish yourself. In fact, as a TSPTF member, it's better that you stay here. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 23:09, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly Stooge. Just play cool and don't be so... tough on yourself. Ease it a little, lol. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:58, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

NotLAH Edits
Someone removed a ton of stuff from NotLAH. Not sure what the deal is, but I undid it. Tr0llis (talk) 12:23, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Okay I'm not sure what's going on, but apparently people are being banned. Why are people getting banned?Tr0llis (talk) 12:25, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Here's how I see it. Imp was defeated in the game and complained to the admins. Since he is more popular with the admins, the admins demanded that Mscoree revert the game and rig the algorithm so that Imp won the war which he had fairly lost. When Mscoree refused to do this, Lordganon banned him for three days for being insubordinate, then forcefully reverted NotLAH so that Imp was never defeated, even though Imp no longer plays. I hope that helps. NonEuclidean (talk) 12:34, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

To quote what I said on the NotLAH talkj page, this is ridiculous. There is no justice here, only tyranny. I have never seen anything more bias in my life. Reverting several years just to make a sore loser feel better. You should be ashamed of yourself. Going around pushing people around to get your way. I read the conversation myself. You said "you know how to fix it", Mscoree asked how multiple times, and then said "Nope", as in 'no, I don't know how,'. Go ahead and ban me now and I'll be another martyr. Tr0llis (talk) 13:09, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I got sent here from the NotLAH talk page, and I'm shocked. I can't believe you get banned now for asking for help. To quote Mscoree, 'I don't believe you explain[ed] how to fix the algorithms, and if you did you weren't clear enough' (here. And now we can't undo Lordganon edits. Someone please help. Fritzmet (talk) 13:14, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

If you guys aren't going to read the cause of this, which is a matter of scrolling up, don't start flinging accusations around. This topic has been debated on and should be a closed issue. Thank you. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 13:24, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Admins shouldn't be allowed to vandalize a page and claim its a punishment. To Crimson, I for one have read the discussion above, in which Lordganon demanded in varying degrees of italics and bolding, that Mscoree rig the game. I personally was glad that he didn't. Now it seems that Lordganon has decided to take the time to remove days of work and eventually kill a page, just because he doesn't like it. I'm sorry if Imp felt sad, but its just a game. No need to get the admins to ban Mscoree and what not. Harvenard2 (talk) 13:31, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Way to not read any of what has been said about this, above or otherwise.

No one demanded anyone "revert" the game. No one. And no "reverting" happened, either, had you bothered to look.

I very pointedly told Ms what was wrong with his "algorithm." He declined to care about that. Even more so, he refused to be reasonable about some sort of peace.

No "days of work" went anywhere. And only one of you three even had a post modified - and that was to remove a couple of troop numbers in favor of the word "troops" and the parts that had you fighting in/leaving Africa long after the peace.

No one "demanded" that Imp win anything. And he did not. Again, had you bothered to even look at it, you would have seen that. The outcome was never in dispute - just the scope of the loss. Which has been adjusted.

Nor did he say "nope" as in "No, I don't know" - he said it as in he would not do it. Was no "confusion" there, and I was very explicit about what would happen should he fail to listen. Not the first time he's done that, either.

As for Ms getting blocked, that is what happens when you ignore a ruling by the admins that you helped ask for. The length is similar to punishments for the same reason given to others in the past. Can't say he didn't get warned.

Lordganon (talk) 15:13, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I used to play on NotLAH several months ago but I occasionally check back on it. I have read what everyone has said, so far. Lordganon, Mscoree obviously did bother to try and fix the algorithm since he asked how on several occasions (here and here). If you had actually helped and answered his question then you wouldn't be in this mess. RazorFangZ14 (talk) 15:17, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I talked to him and he said that he meant "nope", as in 'no, I don't know'. I personally thought that as well when I read it. Next time I advise actually sorting out a problem and talking about it before banning people. Tr0llis (talk) 15:21, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

2 things.

Firstly, drop the bloody persecution complex. No one is persecuting you. LG gets 25 requests on his talkpage EVERYDAY. He cannot respond to them all. Secondly, WHAT TYRANNY? EVERYTHING on this wiki is elected! If enough users cared to vote against these reforms, then they would be repealed. The fact that they don't is because you are in a MINORITY. Grow the hell up.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 15:27, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't we have a vote among NotLAH players who wants the revert/edit then? Tr0llis (talk) 15:35, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't you? Is that a threat? Really? The TSPTF has no control over the implausibilty of map games. They can't, won't, shouldn't, and don't want to stop you. Ms got banned for being, and no offense intended, an idiot. If I kept on bugging you on your talkpage, after you give me a reply, I think you'd feel pretty harrassed. You guys asked LG for his opinion- why did you do that if you didn't really want it? Again; grow up. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 15:42, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

No, he actually did not try to fix it - and I did tell him what was wrong with it. Very explicitly, for that matter - he just chose to ignore it, like he has ignored the admins several times with regards to what is/was wrong about things or disregarding warnings. But that's not even half the problem. Most of the problem was that he chose, outright, to ignore the part about being "reasonable."

I did answer his question. Not my fault he didn't like my answer - or the ruling on the original dispute that he asked for.

No truth to the "don't know" part. He was well aware of what was needed to be done. He refused to edit the past turns slightly like I did to make things reasonable.

And, for the last time: No "revert" happened.

Guns, calm down.

Lordganon (talk) 15:47, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

This is by far the most ridiculous map game related discussion that I have ever seen. LG is correct on all counts here.

18:40, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I thank my fellow users for standing up for me on such bias acusations. I really hope you folks get what this means to me - thank you again.

Let me state from my point of view:

Firstly, I invaded Angola in game thinking that is was run by a warlord. This was not so. I asked the algo to be reverted, Ms replied this was not fair. I responded by saying I did not know there was such a rule (I'm not sure if there even is). Ms responded by saying he would invade me - even though I stated I was willing to withdraw peacefully. Point about Ms - not willing to listen to other users. He also stated that this was in part due to my claims about the Netherlands - implausibly modded away from me. Point two about Ms - he holds grudges.

Using metagaming, he got a bunch of nations to his side - including Russia which on barely speaking terms with America (never would happen IRL). As any map gamer would do, I tried to defend my lands. Apparently, I wasn't allowed to use my vassals in Africa or India. He then invaded me and though the algorithm (which I still feel was not right) he won wars. Then Russia took over - helping NATO, even though South Africa and Russia were both in the CSTO.

I, naturally, sued for peace. My points to end the war might have not been the best, yet I was willing to negociate. Ms was not. Putting up a list of points which were designed to break apart my nation, he basically said you agree to my implausible requests or war continues. Plus, none of the rioting which would have happened in Russia or the US IRL was even mentioned.

I then, very logically, quit the shitfest which came to be called Notlah.

Now, moving on to the issue at hand. LG told Ms to stop reverting his changes, and Ms - not listening directly replied "nope". LG knows what is right. He never changed the outcome just made tweaks to the algo.

I didn't have anything against Ms - I even tried to help him out when he got banned for the memes - for which I was heavily criticised. However, now I would not be so willing so say otherwise. And plus - stop letting Ms tell you what to post Trollis - we all know you know him in real life.

Thanking you,  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:56, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Imp here highly. Most of NotLAH's founding members were Mscoree's friends from High School but only Trollis and Ed remained. Also post-World War III tensions between the US and Russia are thrown out the window entirely. Russia and the United States cooperating against terrorism is perfectly reasonable but the United States and Russia cooperating against Russia's ally over a misunderstanding is flipping ridicoulous. The war should have been between NATO and CSTO not the Collation vs. South Africa. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 21:23, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly the note about his high school isn't even true. Russia chose to attack South Africa. Sure there were sentiment between Russia and the United States (probably less since the east coast invasion was reverted/edited), but this is taking the first steps toward better relations. Not to mention Russia was trying hard to ally with Germany and some other European powers. Tr0llis (talk) 13:04, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it was his college. As he said before.

Trollis, Ms didn't get banned for implausibilty. He got banned for constantly reverting LG's changes to the algorithm, which Ms himself had asked for. Look at it. All Ms has done so far, really, is piss off people who used to like him. I had nothing against Ms until the memes, and the impeachment. Imp had nothing against him until this very problem. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 13:22, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, most of the stuff you're saying isn't true. Firstly, Lordganon did not make a single edit to the algorithm, therefore Mscoree never reverted it, and therefore he was not banned for reverting Lordganon's edit on the algorithm. Secondly, Mscoree never asked Lordganon to edit the algorithm. Thirdly, Mscoree has never attempted an impeachment, so basically you just confused everyone. Tr0llis (talk) 06:51, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

What are you smoking, Trollis?

A) Ms did ask for LG's help/

B) And yes, he has attmpted an impeachment- he just never went through with it.

Look, just stop, ok? Just stop. Really, this wiki was a much better place before the NotLah group came here.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 06:57, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with LG, Guns and the like minded supporters here. MS asked for help. When he did he didn't get the results he wanted and LG I'm sure does not take to kindly to people who waste his time which more than not MS has done with this fiasco. If y'all hasn't been so controlling and thrown implausibility out the window we wouldn't have this problem. LG is correct by all means end if story. As it stands there is literally nothing you can do a out it regardless. So drop it. The majority of people agree with LG here your a minority here and as it stands your opinion about this really isn't helping your case. --#LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 07:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, Mscoree asking for help is unrelated. Yes he asked for help, but no algorithms were edited by Lordganon. You can view the history on the NotLAH talk page and you'll notice that Lordganon never edited the talk page, except to delete a bunch of stuff pertaining to the African War and announce that he was now moderating/editing past events in NotLAH (or something of the sort). Secondly, Mscoree never attempted an impeachment. In July several users including Mscoree wrote some points that needed addressing, in which it was stated four times that it was not an impeachment (at my own count). Tr0llis (talk) 09:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

No, see, what they did was start the process for impeachment then not follow through. It's like putting a gun to someone's head, threatening to pull the trigger, then leaving. You still tried to mug them.

Trollis. I could argue with the rest, but I don't want to. Just stop, ok? Grow up. Ms got banned reasonably, as is the clear opinion of not just TSPTF members but also ordinary users. Just stop. Just because you disagree, it isn't unreasonable. This wiki is a democracy. The majority wins.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 09:14, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't even a start to the "process," actually - only members of the TSPTF can do that in any form. He is not, and never will be, part of that group.

Ruled that the algorithm wasn't quite right - it was quite a bit more in favor of "NATO" than it should have been, though not for the reasons Imp had indicated - but also that he was not even being remotely reasonable with his demands. He failed to address that problem at all. Didn't even try. I didn't see any point with messing with that "algorithm."

Ms asked for a ruling. He got it, but didn't agree with it. Him failing to follow it, and the result of that, is his own fault. Warned him about it very clearly.

End of discussion, more or less, I think.

Lordganon (talk) 11:05, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

You all get distracted quite easily, it seems. Can someone answer my original question that I posted on here; how to revert a rollback? Apparently you have to start a large argument and get banned for a few days just to get a question answered. Again, I never tried to impeach anyone, merely post constructive criticism, write by others, to no avail. I don’t see any mention of a rule that only TSPTF members can impeach each other, so I assume that is false. To clarify, when I said “Nope” I was not attempting to be insubordinate, I was saying that Lordganon’s statements, “I have already told you exactly what is wrong with it,” and “Oh, you can, and you will fix it. Or I will.” (I spared you of the multiple forms of emphasis) were false. I did not know how to fix the algorithm, which I why I asked how. Guns brought up the defense that “LG gets 25 requests on his talkpage EVERYDAY”. This is incredibly false (I assume an exaggeration), as he get twenty five requests in closer to a month. Interestingly, I actually get as many, if not more in some instances, as Lordganon. I would ask how the algorithm is in favor of NATO, but I have already learned that asking questions on the TSPTF page usually equates to a ban so I will refrain. Not to mention I already stated how it is actually gives South Africa an advantage (I use my scores which yield a lower total for myself, didn’t use naval score despite being near the coast, etc). In conclusion, I never asked for a ‘ruling’, I asked a question (still unanswered), which resulted in Lordganon enacting Judgement Day early, personally taking the moderating of NotLAH into his own hands, deleting work from multiple pages, and banning myself. Lordganon, If you’d like to moderate on NotLAH please sign up here. Also try not to be bias as that is against the rules of the game. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 15:26, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

It was honestly none of Lordganon’s business to take a map game into his own hands. While we’re at it, why don’t we take a glance through Scramble for Africa and remove 14,000 bytes worth of stuff. Also all the people throwing in their two cents (like Guns) have basically made the situation worse. Harvenard2 (talk) 15:34, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Democracy implies freedom of speech. I will throw in my 'two cents'.

Yes, Ms, that was an exaggeration. He still has way more to do on this wiki that you or me combined, which was my point.

Lose the persecution complex. You weren't banned for complaining. Take a look at some of MY arguments with LG, they make yours look like minor jokes between friends. I never got banned.

Seriously, though, the last one. Read that again, especially the bit about the persecution complex. You're like Yossarian, except people aren't actually trying to kill you.

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 11:31, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, what was Mscoree banned for? Tr0llis (talk) 16:17, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, at this point, I'm not exactly sure, though I have a rough idea. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 16:26, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Lordganon said it was because I "obviously didn't bother to try and fix the algorithm", despite the fact I asked him several times what needed to be fixed and expressed interest in fixing it. Someone should probably edit the rules so that 'not trying' is marked as a bannable offense. Mscoree (talk) 16:30, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

That was your specific offense, I think the general rule behind it is Insubordination. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that there is no law in that world which outlaws the killing of a person called Ishtar Mistik, but if you did kill such a person, i'm sure that the authorites would call it murder, right?

Kudos if you figure out A) Where the name Ishtar Mistik comes from and B) where the analogy comes from! The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 16:34, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

If Lordganon could reply that would be much appreciated. Mscoree (talk) 12:09, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be? The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 17:17, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Lordganon continues to edit stuff, and this is getting quite annoying. He's now removed Kogasa's signature from the attendance section on a treaty (for some reason) and edited the nations section. This is extremely childish, Lordganon can you please calm down and stop making edit wars on a bunch of pages. I know you may be mad but this is no way to act. Just talk it out or something. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 14:21, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Childish? I was asked to make a ruling, and made one. You continue to attempt to ignore it. That's the definition of "childish," lol.

This is at least the third time you've done this when instructed otherwise by the admins. Disregard it one more time, and you will get another vacation. For much longer.

Lordganon (talk) 11:06, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

I'm confused. Where exactly was a 'ruling' discussed? Where exactly did anyone ignore you? When has anyone ordered Mscoree to do anything? Also congratulations you managed to effectively dance around the questions. Tr0llis (talk) 19:12, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I don't believe anyone asked for a ruling, nor did I attempt to ignore it. This is evident by the fact that I asked Lordganon multiple times what needed to be fixed. If he had actually specifically listed everything wrong with the algorithm this would be different. I don't believe two other admins commanded me to change stuff either. Frankly, I'm just tired of playing games with you, Lordganon. By continuing to level with you maturely I risk getting banned or getting others harmed. If you want to continue comforting people who have been eliminated in NotLAH, you should probably also stick up for Ratc and Octivian while you're at it though. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 19:31, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Romae Delenda Est Vandalizing
Name: Romae Delenda Est I know a few of you arent necessarily too involved in map games but a player that me and another Head mod/ Creator. He has posted while under ban, and accused us of picking on him and is continueing to post. At this point im not sure whether to classify it as vandalizing since he is consistantly posting and undoing mod Reivsions on pages on a game he is banned from. or just being disruptive. But for the sake of it i personally classify it as vandalizing.

The User is VX-641. VS being disruptive and disrespectful to me as a person and mod as well as causing consistent issues with implausibility and conflict with mods. There are multiple occasions of him saying im sabotaging him like on my talk page Talking to be about "Sabotaging".

Here is the warning, and just below that is the other Moderator carrying out the ban.

RDE warning, and RDE ban.

Thanks in Advance #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 23:48, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just when the NotLAH drama was over. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 02:02, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

^

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  02:08, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah my bad didnt mean to have it happen.. lets just have it be swift and decisive.. my other mod could easily back me up on it. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 02:15, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

But in all seriousness. We have given him multiple chances before we even did the two day ban. We even agreed on the two day ban a turn or two before I actually posted it on his talk page, because I had hope he'd get the message that he wasn't following rules and disregarding algorithms. Sadly, it came to the two day ban, which he then ignored, posting when we has banned from the game for two days, and I even confirmed that his nation wouldn't be put under civil disorder, nor invaded in the time he was gone. He then went on to undo Feudal's entire cross-out and explaination of his banishment being extended for not following the ban rules. We tried to give him as many chances as possible since he was newer, but he consistantly disregarded the rules, changed mod events to be in his favor, and undid changes that I and Feudal did as mods to combat his rule-breaking behavior. Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 03:26, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

I've warned him about it, and told him to listen to you guys. Let me know if he does it again. Lordganon (talk) 10:42, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help! Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 12:04, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Much Appreciated LG thanks again #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 22:50, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Mikhail Voronov
I have informed Mikhail Voronov on three separate occasions (in the past 24 hours) about duplications. Though he has responded on one of the messages, he continued to duplicate. I have blocked him for 24 hours. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:32, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Mikhail has duplicated once again. I have now re-blocked him for three days. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:50, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

cyberbullying
fuedal and local said i cant play as prussia as and local was tuanting me on how i cant check i want something done now Warman555 (talk) 00:14, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

As it stands you cant play as prussia cause in our rules it states that you must have a plausible reputation which from large amounts of personal experience you do not have.. its in our Rules Bolded.. its not my fault you didnt read them.

As for the Cyber bullying. i cant be everywhere at once so i dont know about that whole deal that is a seperate issue between Local and Warman. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 00:18, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you understand what cyberbullying is, warman. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:19, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

I just said that he couldn't check the chat, where me and feudal were discussing this rule, and I don't see how that is taunting, I genuinely forgot, I was away for the past few weeks, I thought he could come on chat, but then I remembered, sorryMafia (talk) 00:23, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

...Seriously? None of them did anything of the sort. War, Crim hit the nail on the head, there. Sigh... Lordganon (talk) 10:24, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your time, i know your probably tired of dealing with this crap so once again sorry for having you deal with something else like this and thank you for all your hard work around here #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 14:44, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem. Believe me, compared to some of the things around here, this is nothing. Lordganon (talk) 15:08, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

AkiyamaIV/W.Liberty again?
A user by the name of Sun.Yat.sen recently uploaded several duplicates. While informing him of this, to me this seems to familiar. The types of small-sized files and use of Japanese/Chinese characters in those file names remind me of AkiyamaIV and his second account W.Liberty (read about it here).

While not definitive, it looks too suspect to not bring it up for a second opinion. If he continues to duplicate than he will be blocked anyway. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:57, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be getting the flags from the same kind of source, but otherwise looks to me like they are acting different. Lordganon (talk) 12:42, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Not really an Alternative History
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/KING_HENRY_APPLEGATES_AND_QUEEN_TAYLOR_SWIFT

Doesn't have a POD, seems to be in the future, and I am not sure if it is a troll, or just someone who doesn't understand. Probably the former. Mafia (talk) 11:55, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Mscoree (talk) 12:14, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Added delete template Mafia (talk) 12:17, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Deleted. What even was that? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:33, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Mscoree duplicated again
I have informed Mscoree about duplication on several occasions (I even gave him a break the last time he did). I have blocked him for three days. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:05, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I just noticed something:
 * Jontiben2 duplicates several times, re-uploads them, and ignores NuclearVacuum - 24 Hours Ban


 * Mikhail Voronov duplicates several times, continues to duplicate, ignores NuclearVacuum - 24 Hour Ban


 * Mscoree duplicates a single picture then apologizes - three day ban.

Lol. Tr0llis (talk) 17:32, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Because Ms completely hasn't duplicated several times before, and Mikhail completely didn't apologize, and Jontiben never stopped...

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:34, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I was talking about the initial ban, and from what was written here. Where as they duplicated four times in a day or two, Mscoree duplicated four times in several months. Tr0llis (talk) 17:37, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

That's correct. Repeat offender. Study American law.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:40, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if breaking the law once (with a history of doing it before) warrants a punishment three times worse than some one who breaks the law four times. This is probably a misunderstanding. Bad luck Mscoree: tries to make page for David Rain, uploads an image and is banned for three days. Fritzmet (talk) 17:52, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I really can't believe I am sticking up for Ms, but compared to them Ms has contributed a mountain. I don't think he deserves this ban. His story sounds fairly plausible. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:53, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ms IS the one who broke it four times, Fritz.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  17:55, September 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Jontiben2 and Mikhail Voronov were all new users, responded and stated they would stop, and yet continued to duplicate (Mikhail was eventually re-blocked days later). MS has been informed over a longer period of time (showing he was aware and either simply forgot or generally ignored it). I gave him a break on his third duplicate, which I explained he would not receive another. Finally the message he sent me shows he was well aware of what he was doing and chose to ignore it in order to finish his articles.


 * Warned three times over months.
 * Given an initial break.
 * Was aware of what he was doing and ignored them.


 * To me these all warrant a three-day block. Combined with the fact that MS has been blocked now four times by LG and I shows he was well aware of what may happen if he continued to ignored admins. I have just explained this to him and the block will remain. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:17, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Mscoree told me to send this to you guys:

From Mscoree: I didn’t ignore your instructions, I simply made a mistake. I was trying to fix the duplicates but they didn’t show up in the list of recently uploaded pictures so I thought they weren’t uploaded. I finished my edit and pressed publish, at which point I was banned and unable to even tell if they were duplicates in the first place. I immediately sent you an apology, and would have fixed the issue myself. All this has basically made a simple mistake into a long debate.

User:Edboy452    (talk) 18:56, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

^^ Ms is apparently very accident prone. That's almost the exact same explanation he gave me when LG banned him for creating a huge string of redirects. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 20:28, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I think it was the link in the infobox that tripped him up. Lol I still mess it up sometimes. This is probably a misunderstanding. Just a simple mistake. Tr0llis (talk) 14:26, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

The amount of contributions is irrelevant.

Fact of the matter is, that this is yet another attempt by Ms to ignore warnings given by admins. And lie about it after the fact, again.

This is now the fourth block for failing to listen to the admins, along with ignoring notes that did not carry warnings on several other occasions.

He's lucky that it was only three days. Next one will be much longer.

Lordganon (talk) 12:39, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I made a mistake, and would have fixed it. I didn't ignore NuclearVacuum or attempt to defy him, nor did I attempt to ignore admins on four occasions. Sometimes things things look out of perspective. Mscoree (talk) 21:44, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Ms, why don't you check beofre you upload? Rather than after..? The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 21:56, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

When I write pages I type out the pictures in source mode. The files I uploaded were from Wikipedia, so supposedly they should have the same title, but they did not, so it appeared that those pictures weren't on the wiki. Unknown to me at the time, a version of the Malaysian flag actually was on the wiki, which I found out after I went to delete the Philippines one for being bad quality (never actually got to) and decided to check the Malaysian one. I tried to delete them both after clicking publish to save my work, but by then I was banned. Mscoree (talk) 23:52, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Ooh... not smart, Ms. That might be why you got banned; deleting the image screws up any articles that use that image. Don't delete for bad quality; upload a new version, like they do with Map Games. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:55, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

No I didn't delete an already existing flag. I uploaded a flag, but since it was bad quality, I deleted immediately afterword (or at least tried to). I basically did the same process that NuclearVacuum said to do in the duplication thread below. Turns out it's not that effective. Mscoree (talk) 10:39, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * You weren't blocked for the Philippine flag but for the Malay flag. If you truly are using the source mode and you pasted the link from Wikipedia, than you should've gotten this. The file name on Wikipedia hasn't been changed, so this isn't a mix-up, and since your duplicate still contains the name of the correct link [File:23px-Flag of the Federated Malay States (1895 - 1946).svg.png], it appears you knew the link you wanted. Even if you didn't duplicate, you still were ignoring my requests to upload files as is from Wikipedia (which you have stated time and time again you would do). As you have been told countless times, you need to listen or the next time you will be gone longer. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 13:38, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

I am aware that the Philippines flag wasn't a duplication, but I attempted to delete it anyway for being bad quality. I was trying to get the flag from this page, but as you can see when you click on the flag, you get a different image. This is why I uploaded it. Sorry, my bad, I would have told you sooner. Mscoree (talk) 14:36, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * I believe I understand the issue. On Wikipedia, they use a template for all their flags (so it has the flag and the link to the article). This template also links you the said article when you click on the flag (not sending you to the file link). Next time I would suggest doing some digging instead of how you did it here. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:42, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Okay thanks. I'll try to be more careful in the future. Mscoree (talk) 10:33, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Warman555 Plagiarized the Austria-Hungary page from Wikipedia
In my current map game Rise of the South, Warman555 has started to play as Austria-Hungary even though he has made the requirements to even play as that nation. When he made the page for Austria-Hungary he has copy and pasted the Austria-Hungary article from Wikipedia. I have some evidence to prove this plagiarism by taking screenshots and also the history of the page also states that Warman555 has also added more than 40,000 bytes containing more evidence. All I ask is that Warman555 is dealt responsibly by the administrators of this Wiki, in which they should take the appropriate actions they see fit. User:Edboy452    (talk) 19:46, September 9, 2013 (UTC)



'''Furthermore I apologize for the "weird" screenshots since I was using the wrong picture format in Paint. However, the resolution is still fine if you CTRL+Scroll Up when on the picture page.''' User:Edboy452    (talk) 19:48, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Link for the page: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Austria-Hungary_(Rise_of_the_South_Map_Game)

Yeah I fixed the images. A warning on his talkpage should do and he should be notified that if he does this again it will allow him to be banned. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:00, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

All I can really say to this is "And?"

Wikipedia is free-source - you can copy from there as needed, so long as it is not for personal profit.

He did nothing wrong.

Lordganon (talk) 12:30, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Duplicating
ive been on this site for about a year and a half now and i never really got around to reading the duplication rules, its onee of the reasons my timelines have no pictures to speak of. can  someone please link me the rules on duplication or on usage of images since like i said i never really got the clear idea and would like to know so i can start incorparating images into my works. thank you in advance for the help. Nkbeeching (talk) 23:57, September 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to duplicate files? If that is the case, than this is not an official rule and more of a courtesy to other users and to prevent the buildup of one-article files of the same image.


 * The only real thing you need to know is that if the files is from Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons (especially flags and coats of arms), than likely they are already here. All files from those site have the exact same file links here &mdash; so for instance "File:Flag of Russia.svg" is the exact same as "on Wikipedia." You can use this link to see if they are here. If not, than you are welcome to upload it yourself (I usually correct them if they are not the exact file, so no need to worry about SVG files if you do not know how they work). If they aren't from Wikipedia than that makes it harder to tell if they are duplicates, so I rarely go looking for those sources.


 * That is pretty much the gist of it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:27, September 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * A quick update because I'm well aware that much of this duplication issue stems from the fact that you can choose between either writing the code directly (i.e., Source mode [which is what I and most old school editors use]) and having a visual editor (i.e., Visual mode). The visual mode has a very alien way of uploading files and the way it works appears to promote uploading duplicates. Exploring it a bit, it appears that the best way to find files using the Visual mode is the type the file name and to BE SURE to use underscores instead of spaces. So for "File:Flag of Russia.svg" you HAVE to type out " " (being sure to use underscores). Pretty much copy the file link and manually add underscores. Hope this helps. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:49, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it can be said that there is, in theory, a rule. If you look at the top of the "conventions in use" page, there's a line about checking for files that already exist. Just never got enforced before. Lordganon (talk) 12:27, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Warman555
Warman has vandalized the Rise of the South (Map Game) page. He keeps removing himself from the banned list, and signing up as a nation that, according to the rules of the game, he is not allowed. He also removed the name of someone else who signed up as that nation. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Rise_of_the_South_(Map_Game)?diff=819015&oldid=818907

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Rise_of_the_South_(Map_Game)?diff=818885&oldid=818738

and here is the prove he is banned

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Rise_of_the_South_(Map_Game)?diff=818458&oldid=818456

Note all this was after I warned him TWICE on his talk page, and then, once I warned him in chat, he denied the ban, and signed up as another nation

Mafia (talk) 17:58, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I just noticed that too. He's coming off to he a real nuisance. This is like the second or third time this has happened--#LivinLikeFeudal (talk)

Remember our Fallen
I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but please remember to honor the victims of the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001. To anyone who served in the armed forces or knows someone that has, thank you for your sacrifices!! Daeseunglim (talk) 23:00, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Should this be here? I mean, yes, horrific event, (EDIT: I deleted an extra comma) but I mean not really the place for it, right? The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 23:03, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

^

Scraw 23:07, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

I wanted us to remember our brave men and women, and didn't mean anything by it. Sorry if u are offended. If u want, u can remove it. Again, my apologies. Daeseunglim (talk) 23:59, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

That would make a good blog post. I agree with you, but this isn't a good place to post it. Mscoree (talk) 00:04, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Not offended. But make a blog for this. Don't post it here. The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 00:02, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

not the place for this conversation (Fear the Atomic War bomb, Fear It)

Briasemp2
The user Briasemp2 has recently been vandalizing several timelines and articles, none of which belong to him as far as I can tell.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  21:03, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently someone didn't like their "edit" getting undone, lol. Lordganon (talk) 14:21, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

New Euro Emperor
I have informed New Euro Emperor several times about duplicating. I have blocked him for 24 hours. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:55, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Anon vandalism
An anon vandalized the page Russia (1941: Success) by put some nonsense rubbish words into it. FirstStooge (talk) 12:23, September 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I blocked that IP for you. Definitely deserves blocking. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:59, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Query
I was looking at some edits on a page, and I saw that one user edit had the option, next to talk, to block. I clicked it, purely out of curiousity, and it said I don't have permission to use this function. That makes sense, as I am just a basic user, but why did it come up in the first place? I think it was under a revision, so is that why? Anyway, the instance was here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Piedmont_Republic_(1983:_Doomsday)?diff=next&oldid=763486

Mafia (talk) 17:33, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

It's probably because he's been banned before. I wouldn't worry about it. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 22:14, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Most likely just a line that temporarily became available because of wikia messing around. Nothing to worry about. Looking into things, I can see it at least doesn't show up now. Lordganon (talk) 13:26, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Another anon vandalism
An anon with IP address 142.227.165.2 made several vandalism. You check it out on his user contributions. FirstStooge (talk) 13:29, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Blocked. Lordganon (talk) 13:49, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

A Note
I have blocked 85.226.14.2 (Talk) for inserting flase information into other users' timelines for one year. I think that might be a little harsh. If so, I will change it what is thought approporate. Thank you. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:01, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Three days ban is enough, Imp, for the guy like him. One year is a bit too much in my opinion. FirstStooge (talk) 12:03, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

While it's pretty unlikely that he'll do anything productive, most bans for first-time offenders are a few days. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 13:16, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Ok guys. Changed it to 1 week. Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:18, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, a year was far too much, Imp.

General of thumb, guys...

Three days for a first block, seven for a second, fourteen for a third, etc., etc.

Intimidating behavior, harassment, and other things like that start at a week and go up.

Sockpuppets, 3000 years.

If a block needs to be made over something really minor, or to make a point, start at a day. This would be things like repeatedly failing to follow rules when making nominations.

Obviously, of course, a general guideline. No one case is the same as any other.

Lordganon (talk) 06:43, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

​ Octivian Marius
Just joined chat, said 'FUCK U LOCAL' and then left. I think he just got too into one of the games, and is annoyed I annexed him, but still... Mafia (talk) 22:20, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

I can see why he'd get a chat ban, but shouldn't you go to a mod about that..?

Mod as in on the game? Why? Mafia (talk) 22:49, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

He means chat mods, which this wiki has none.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #00ff00; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Helvetica">"Fear leads to anger. <font color=navy face="Helvetica"> Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to    <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> suffering."  22:50, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Yes we do... Imp? Viva? Just two examples...

...Every single member of the admin team has "chat moderator" rights. Lordganon (talk) 06:43, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well, those two are the only ones I know who use the chat.

And really, it isn't like I have not exercised my chat rights before. You have a problem, talk to me and I will sort it out for you in chat. Really is that simple. We have Kogasa and stuff on chat a lot of time too. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:30, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Mscoree Banned Again
Okay why has MS been banned again? I know he was banned from helping the admins with categorizing, but he hasn't don't any bad categories since then. He's done the same thing LG has done since forever. If Mscoree is being banned for adding "Map Games" to a page called Rise of Bonaparte (Map Game), then shouldn't we be penalizing LG for adding "Map Games" to ? Most of that stuff he made or was asked to help out with. Personally I find it ridiculous that every possible way to ban him must be exploited, just for trying to help out. If I saw someone in the world genuinely trying to help someone, like handing out food to the hungry, I wouldn't 'ban' him for handing out too much. When someone makes a mistake trying to improve the wiki you shouldn't have to put your account on the line just to the most basic of things: ask. I've checked the talk pages, and MS left seven messages trying to piece together the unofficial rules, for lack of a better way, when it comes to categorizing. You can't say he didn't try to understand the mumbo-jumbo of LG's procedure. Sure maybe the weren't categorized 100% right at first, right to LG's standards, but he did all that with the best intentions. I know I will probably be banned now, so thanks for letting me say what I wanted to say. Tr0llis (talk) 10:39, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why on earth would you be banned? Not a single person ever has been banned for that, or ever will be.

Overall? Bull. He has kept adding incorrect categories to things, claiming to be helping us, after he was explicitly told that he was not doing it right, and the basic principle behind the system.

He got several warnings about this, and as usual, ignored them. Could have blocked him days ago after the last warning he was given, figured I'd give a couple days to fix himself. Didn't work, and here we are.

He was very clearly told to stop touching/categorizing pages and files he did not make or upload. Several times, in fact. Yet, he decided to ignore that, wholeheartedly. In line with his past behavior, of course.

You claim to have "checked the talk pages" - but it is obvious that you did not do more than look at mine, and misinterpreted what is there, as well.

The claim that he "hasn't done any bad categories since then" is complete and utter bull. Each and every day he has done this, despite warnings.

You can't even claim that the things he categorized were "mostly stuff he made or was asked to help out with." That is most decidedly not true.

And, moreover, others even complained to him about this, and were ignored as well.

When you ignore the admins, or pretend to listen, you get blocked. Simple fact. At this point, he's lucky it was not for longer, as this is far from the first block he has received for ignoring the admin team.

And, Troll, it would be great if you quit parrotting him. Just a touch too obvious.

Lordganon (talk) 14:44, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

He only put the category of Map Games on. I don't think that should be considered too bad. I completely agree with the part about users' individual timelines, but LG, its was only a map game. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:53, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

That article had absolutely nothing to do with it. Matter of fact, it's one of the very few he did right.

Imp, this is something I have been telling him not to do, and that he was doing it wrong, for nearly two weeks. He's ignored several clear warnings about it, entirely. This is what happens when you fail to listen to the admins.

Lordganon (talk) 15:01, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

I see. Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:17, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

I read your comments. I understand that you told him not to categorize anymore, as some sort of punishment for attempting to learn how. All I'm saying is that banning someone for not doing it correctly may not be the best way to teach them how. For example, what categories did even do wrong (since you last warned him)? Also to answer you question as to why I thought I'd be banned, I think it's quite obvious that people are afraid to ask you things in these types of situations. I've seen people saying that a lot. Tr0llis (talk) 17:53, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

No, he got banned after being told not to because he was screwing it up. Maybe there was a reason that none of those dead map games were marked 'Map Games'?

Even I asked him to stop.

That was a while ago, before LG even sent a warning. I'm talking about within the last 48 hours, and as to why he was banned. Tr0llis (talk) 01:04, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

There was no "attempting to learn how," Troll. Quite frankly, despite having the basis of the system explained to him, he actually got worse at it as time went on. Only thing he was accomplishing was to make more work for us, and that's why I told him to stop and then warned him later on.

He was blocked because he failed to listen, again.

Troll, not one single person has ever been blocked for that by anyone on this wiki. Nor would they. All that is is a falsehood preached by MS and his cronies.

Ms just kept adding the same bad categories to things that weren't his. Had they been his, I'd have just fixed them and went on. But he couldn't even follow that reasonable limit.

Lordganon (talk) 07:46, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Do you have any sources/examples pointing to him being incorrect or getting worse? Tr0llis (talk) 10:42, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Plenty. Just look at his contributions. As for the getting worse, couple days ago, in addition to the other errors, he started adding the "images" category to all images in addition to the right or wrong categories he had been adding. Fairly sure that one was some kind of "dig" at me, mind. Lordganon (talk) 10:47, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

I skimmed through the last three dozen or so and saw that almost all of them remain just as Mscoree left them. The main exceptions being that two images of rifles had the images tag, and you removed the tag "Maps" from the file "BFE Canon Map.png", even though it's a map. I think I see the confusion since almost all images on this wiki that aren't maps, flags, or some other category, have the images tag, most added by other admins. Considering that Mscoree only added the Images tag to a few images, not all of them, I doubt this is an attempt to excavate you. Tr0llis (talk) 14:24, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

And most of those are ones he uploaded himself.

That's not a "map," imo. Just a picture of the galaxy someone drew lines on.

Actually, almost all images on this wiki have a category - that he added the other category to those ones shows he did at least have an idea of where it belonged. Heck if I know why he put "Images" on there, but that is on him, and he's paid for it. Moreover, that is far from the only two he did that on in the last couple of days, and it is a new development. Just another attempt by Ms to get around, ignore, or annoy the admins.

There was no "confusion." Really should quit parroting, lol. Meh.

You're also vastly understating the number that things were removed from.

Lordganon (talk) 15:26, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Aren't all maps a picture of something with lines on it? In this case it's the galaxy, but it could be a picture of the world with lines on it. It even has the word map in it. Also what is parroting? NonEuclidean (talk) 17:45, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Please don't ban me btw I was just asking. NonEuclidean (talk) 17:57, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

It's simple, he was told to stop, regardless if whether it was minor or not. He didn't stop. MS was told to stop it's not hard to understand. He didn't stop so he was punished. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this. If you are told to stop you stop no questions asked. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 18:05, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

' AHEM:  NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN BANNED ON THIS WIKI FOR COMPLAINING. UNLESS THEY DID SO PROFANELY.'

Trust me, TRUST me, when I say that LG has never banned someone for ticking him off. For my first 6 months on this wiki, it was my favorite passtime.

Sorry, It's just a bit confusing, since the first message LG sent to MS in regards to categorizing was him actually asking MS to categorize more. Since then the situation has completely reversed, from LG categorizing, MS being urged to categorize more but removing some of them, to LG urging MS to stop categorizing.Tr0llis (talk) 01:03, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

LG asked MS to categorize the NoTLAH and his map games' articles. But, the stuff went insane as MS began to categorize the non-map games' articles and files that owned by other users. For example, MS categorized my articles with "Myomi Republic" categorization while the articles already had a specific categorization on them. MS was only categorizing for earned the "Wiki Planner" badge and increased his rank on the leaderboard! FirstStooge (talk) 01:42, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Why is this even an issue? CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 01:51, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Now that I recall, MS also began to categorize stuff from Russian America. He added "Map" to one of my files and also started a discussion as to why none of the articles and files weren't marked with the main category. I also had to remove some categories he added to flags he uploaded (mostly former German colonies that had the category "Germany" on them). Not sure what else to add to the conversation. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:58, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not at all true about maps, TE.

"Parroting" is when someone is told to repeat something to a third party. More or less like when a parrot learns something from someone and repeats it to everyone else. Know full well that at least some of what Troll is saying is something that he is "parroting" for MS, like what most of MS's defenders seem to do.

Quite frankly, Guns, you are far from the worst that has ever come to the wiki and done that, lol.

FS hit the nail right on the head.

Crim, only because someone is parroting for MS and complained about it.

Lordganon (talk) 10:51, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I know, but I'm one of those that wasn't later banned for sockpuppeting and other offenses, like Owen.

Most weren't. Lordganon (talk) 04:46, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to apologize for not ceasing to categorize. I didn't do this with any malicious purposes in mind. I was just trying to help out, not strive for achievements or what have you. This wasn't an attempt to get higher on the leader boards, and I apologize for the confusion. When I was categorizing Russian Alaska I categorized two or three pages then noticed that they had subcategories, so I undid all that (I guess I missed one) and started that dicussion to double check that NuclearVacuum did in fact not want those pages categorizes. And as he stated, I added "Germany" to flags I made pertaining to the German nation, "Maps" to the BFE maps, among other things. Hopefully I am still allowed to categorize and help out. I just need guidance. Mscoree (talk) 12:49, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Its good you realise your mistake. Please do not do so again Ms. I am sure you will get the chance to categorise when you write your own articles. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:05, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. I thought you were refering to Owen.

Don't buy a single word of that, MS. Not one.

No, not really, Guns.

Lordganon (talk) 00:25, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Troll/Vandal Rise of the South (Map Game)
In the Rise of the South (Map Game)  a user named Captainjohnrex posted as Afganistan in the year 1885. He said that he was developing this kind of crap and just being all around ridiculous. heres the an excerpt from his post

''"We start building our first lightsaber and Force Fields. Our people learned how to use laser beamed eyes to zap others and defend themselves. They also learned how to fly and turn invisible and go through walls." ''

Not to mention he upgraded his army score to nearly 1000 (when you can only upgrade by .25 per turn)

The year is 1885.. for real.. I consider this trolling/Vandalism and i figured i should notify you guys about this ridiculousness. Thanks in Advance #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 06:04, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Way I figure it, odds are he doesn't come back.

He does it again, let us know.

Lordganon (talk) 10:54, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

He posted a normal turn this turn. He may have just not understood. Mafia (talk) 22:45, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Seems that way. Lordganon (talk) 10:39, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Warman
Just spend about 20 minutes spamming random text picture things, and an hour before that calling me a dick, telling me to fuck off, and shut the fuck up. This was on Chat. Mafia (talk) 00:11, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

I can back that up. Bust still, Local, chat mod?

The one and only Guns, who is too lazy to go to source mod and type out his real sig. (talk) 00:12, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

local was insulting people beging stubbern and making fun of fallen world Warman555 (talk) 00:14, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

That's enough from the both of you. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 00:40, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Jeez, you'd think that the past warnings and block would have done something about that. And this one has someone to confirm it. Two weeks it is. Lordganon (talk) 12:53, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

That immortal prose (of Warman's).

Chat Issues
Is anyone else having problems with Chat? I can't get on to it. I quite often can't access pages either. Mafia (talk), :05, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

I got on, But it took 5-6 minutes to the page to load. same goes for other pages. It will take a while for this post to go through

Wikia's updating code or something. You think they would've warned us beforehand.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:34, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

I guess it is fine now as it is easy to load pages and edit using my Kindle. :)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:21, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Don't think they have ever warned us about them messing with one feature of another. Only ever got one for it being everything. Definitely would have just been them messing with the code, though. Lordganon (talk) 14:36, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Annoying kid.
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Ommerike_(Godfred_the_Great)

useless troll.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 15:46, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

ps. If I'm dropping this in the wrong place let me know. ~DR

Right spot, and K~ took care of it. Lordganon (talk) 14:35, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

The great deportation of map games?
if you people haven't heard of it already, there is a wiki at mapgame.wikia.com that is dedicated to map games.

Though map games present a collaborative way to write alternate history timelines, they are becoming more and more obsolete and die easily, as seen with Rebuild and ROTS. Principa Moderni 2 though is still continuing quite well it appears.

This is just sort of a proposal to move mapgames to their own wiki. let me know if i put this in the wrong spot.

OreoToast555(Talk)(Sandbox) 22:36, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Please, dear lord no. I barely have enough time as it is. And the only reason those games are failing is because <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #ff0000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=maroon face="Helvetica">"I can feel your anger.   <font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica" title="Blog"> It gives you focus...makes you stronger."  22:39, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Not interesting enough
 * 2) Too many noobish players
 * 3) Lack of proper mods
 * 4) ASBness

Ok, Oreo, time for some hard truths.

Map Games have sort of gone downhill on this wiki.

The reason for that is, no offense intended, the players.

If you look at the Map Game Wiki... well... Eoguy would have a job there, let's leave it at that, and the Plausibility is somewhere near zilch. The kind of players attracted there tend to be the ones who create the bad map games here. Now, Map Games rarely make it to the end. Because of PM and NotLAH, we have this idea that most map games get to the end, and that isn't true. Even the best TLs simply often don't pull it. ROTS and Rebuild were ok map games; trust me, map games far better than them have kicked it. It takes a truly amazing game to pull it off.

I suggested something like this, a year and a half ago. I decided against it becuase as far as I could see, the plausible players would have a pain- most of them also edit actual Althists- and the ones who don't would end up leaving Althist.

Again, no offense intended to anyone. Dammit, Guns! Use your real sig! (talk) 23:22, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

It's only the truly bad ones that "die."

As for your "idea"? Not happening. Don't even know why someone made that blasted thing in the first place.

Lordganon (talk) 11:59, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

That someone was Baconton, and I believe he had the same idea Oreo has now only three years ago. Mscoree (talk) 12:25, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

I had that idea a year ago, remember?

Anyway, there's a reason for... ahh... certain things about that wiki. Unmentionable Wiki Mammal, I call it.

You don't mean Snug Timmad, do you?

21:31, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Snug Timmad is staying firmly on this wiki xD.

More implausibility there, but the Snug Timmad requires some intelligence to survive.

Re from Mapgame Wiki
' As a member of Mapgame Wiki I would just like to give a few clarifying words about it.  '

Whilst Mapgame Wiki [] may be "plausibility zilch", but it was suposed to be fun- regardless of plausible, implausible, ASB, what ever.

I applaud your map games to! Your map games are part of your world and you should be proud of it and keep them if they are great like Princpa Moderni (PM)!

Mapgame Wiki is possibly in decline anyhow as games don't last and quickly fall or go ASB even by our standards. And even I feal fed up with it now. It's used like only raely any how and the games are getting just silly (as of January 1, 2014). Other players have it to over the lst 6 months.

Oh, and Baconton created the Wiki and the game 'Fall of the USSR' on it.Whipsnade (talk) 21:46, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism
This user http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/153.107.33.161 was recently vandalising the page Chichen Itza (Aztec Empire). I have reported him here for appropriate punishment.

"[[User:Monster Pumpkin| This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. "]] (talk) 00:05, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Interesting sig there, MP.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  21:20, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Just so you know, I have fixed it.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:54, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

I know. My new sig may have partially been copied off it. *sheepish smile*

Yeah this is definitely vandalism. Mscoree (talk) 10:32, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

1983 Appeal
Recently I have been trying to adopt the 1983: Doomsday article Republic of the French Southern Territories, and its sub pages, but the user Lordganon has prevented this. According to him he is objecting because of my "refusals to cooperate", although so far all my 1983 articles have been in cooperation with other users, with my articles about Manchuria actually being assisted by Imperium Guy. Ironically he is currently refusing to cooperate/compromise with me, despite my polite attempts to talk with him. To quote the message I left on the page's talk page,

"'Please don't undo all this just yet. I believe that we are both civilized people, and can work this out without talking aggressively or creating an edit war. According to the wiki's rules one of the main points of objecting an adoption is to reach a compromise between the two parties. I am willing to listen to any suggestions that you have to improve this page, and hopefully reach an agreement. So far I believe the editing I have done has been beneficial to the page (and others), and I see no sense in blatantly undoing it. Let's try to work this out to make the most out of these articles.'"

In response to this he wrote "bull" and threatened me with a month-long ban. He has also written that I wasn't adopting the pages correctly, but aside from his objections I believe I have. Here were the steps I undertook below:

According to the rules if a compromise isn't reached I should appeal to the TSPTF, which is what I'm doing now. I don't anticipate that I will ever reach a compromise without this appeal, since right now whenever I try I am threatened with bans, called a compulsive liar, and compared to Owen1983. I now ask the members of the TSPTF to help me reach a fair compromise. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 19:06, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Contact the creator or most recent caretaker and ask if you can adopt the timeline (if it is an open timeline or collaborative project it may be necessary to contact more than one editor before you complete this step). If he or she says yes, you may adopt the timeline. If he or she says no, than you may not adopt the timeline. If you get no response after one week, go to step two.
 * Sent Mitro a message here. I asked him about each article.
 * Leave a message on the portal page stating your intentions to adopt the timeline and ask if anyone objects. If no one objects after three days, you may adopt the timeline. If there are objections, go to step three.
 * I left numerous messages on all pages, especially the portal/base page for the series of articles.
 * Listen to the objections and try to reach a comprise. The issue might be solved by simply sharing control over the timeline with the other editor(s).
 * I attempted to have a mature conversation with Lordganon, but it didn't work.

While LG has been somewhat biased against you, I'll give you that, there are at least two currently active other 1983: Doomsday editors you could have approached first (me and Imp). Link us to this 'mature conversation'.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  22:41, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I asked Imp and he has also tried to reason with Lordganon on this matter (on RTFA talk page). My attempt at a mature conversation is the block quote I posted here. You can read the whole conversation on the the talk page. Mscoree (talk) 01:48, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Bull, all around.

Ms has not "cooperated" with other users. Imp has had to redo much of his articles expressly because he failed to listen. He has ignored Imp's help, by and large, too. For six months myself and others have told him what the problems with those articles are, yet he both ignored and refused to do anything about it. For that matter, he kept trying to get it graduated despite this. Don't even get me started on him adding wrong categories to these articles, despite notes telling him not to do so.

On the contrary, I have tried to compromise with him, on several occasions. Yet he continues to ignore both that, other users, and the rules. All I have asked is that he listen, cooperate, and follow the rules. He has utterly failed at all three of those things.

The "edit" that he left that note with? The edit itself was in violation of the rules that I had just finished clearly explaining to him twice, and had told him not to edit for expressly that reason.

Nothing about those "attempts" has been "polite." That would have meant following the rules. Which, once again, he failed to do.

The idea that he came even remotely close to following the adoption rules cannot possibly be more fictional.

Ms has "tried" to take over those pages twice now. On the first occasion, he asked on the one talk page if he could take it over - to which I made a very clear objection - and that's the only thing he did about it. After a few days, despite the objection, he decided that because he disagreed with it - his own words, more or less - it did not matter and the page was his. Obviously, not true. Moreover, he also decided, in clear violation of the rules, that because the author of the articles in question - Mitro - had not been around in a while, he didn't need to follow the rules and ask anyway. Again, his own words.

To compound that, he attempted to take over the articles for the various member-states of the one article as well, simply declaring that they were his. Did not even bother to ask, there.

The extent of this violation was just massive. Quit frankly, no one has ever violated the adoption rules that badly. He is lucky he did not get blocked there.

On the second occasion, after my warning and very clearly informing him of the rules, he did a little better, asking on Mitro's talk page about the whole lot of them. And yet... that is as far with the rules as he went. Again, despite objections, he went ahead and edited it anyway - another clear violation. The other articles, he didn't bother, yet again, to ask on their talk pages about taking them over. And, for that matter, there was objections to the idea on those talk pages already. He just declared that he had taken them over, and edited one of these as well.

This one was immediately after not only having the rules explained to him, but shown to him too. Again, a massive offense that would have been the only such one to have occurred had he not tried it previously. And, again, something that he is lucky that he was not blocked for. The only reason he was not is because I neglected to include something about him being blocked if he failed to follow them again as part of the original warning.

Since the second occasion, all he has done is gripe and whine about it. I very clearly told him what it would take for me to drop the objections, and what does he do about it? Nothing.

The idea that he tried to have a "mature" conversation isn't at all true.

A compromise hasn't been reached because he has failed to even try at it, preferring to try and complain here instead. Very typical of him, given his past behavior, and something that doesn't surprise me.

He has been threatened with being blocked from the wiki because he has failed to follow the wiki rules. Simple as that. Same reason as why he has been blocked many times previously. Given the number of times, a month is the next level of the list. The next time he refuses to listen to /ignores the admins, or violates the rules, it will be a month block. something that has been very clearly laid out to him. Yet, he pretends such things don't exist.

Moreover, he is a liar. I admit, I could not decide previously if there was something wrong with him, or if he was a liar, but I managed to catch him in one recently - that he still denies - so I have made up my mind on it. Thus, a liar he is.

He continues to make claims about what others have said that is simply not true. Cities sources that don't exist. On several occasions he has made poor excuses for himself after being blocked for rule violations - using his cronies to do so - excuses that were at best debatable, given the timeframe. On many times he has said that he either had read the rules, or understood when they were explained to him, and yet he immediately violates them. Higher up this page he even claimed to not have been told something, yet in the second half of the same post re-stated exactly what he had been told. Most recently he claimed to have made some thing up, yet a quick fact-check showed otherwise, and his excuse for that was even more underwhelming.

Though, I did choose to ignore that until recently. Didn't feel a need to call him out on it at the time.

I did not actually compare him to Owen - what I said was that Owen, despite everything, was better at following the wiki rules. Really, Owen had a problem with two of them - Ms has a problem with far more of them than that.

Imp hasn't tried to "reason" with me, either, because there's not anything to reason about.

Lordganon (talk) 01:32, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Um okay thanks for the recap. Can we get to the appealing now? Hopefully from a third party, Mscoree (talk) 21:09, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

And now for a rant:

Have you not any recollection of the unfeigned praxis of your upbringing? For it is germane to my own modus operandi; a set of perceived conjecture of merry lunacy that is tainted by the allocated guidance of others like a prejudice north star. We transmute like these seasons in which all walks of man did walk in their original transgressions, casting a metamorphosis unforeseen only by those behind us on the path. It is no mystery that we are to evolve, that we are to rejigger our finely tuned perpetual encoders, creating some sort of abomination our former self would look at with aversion and revulsion. We slowly morph through stone walls with the careless disinclination of archaic dissidents to the inevitable shift, yet as our very existence is fired alongside the rest of the fusillade into a glass prism, oh that path which we cannot turn from, we scatter like the abundance of light, and the stars in the sky. How differently we sought to accomplish the same goal; to live, and survive in our brief amount of time. We dream of a world that is malleable in our appendages, craftable in our minds, and to wonder not astray from our long since toiled highway to prosperity. Some might say the will of a man and his ownself think not alike, but really it is the mind that betrays itself, and teaches itself to change. We drift along on this Earth that keeps turning, this vision that keeps morphing, toward that dream of our one thing we love waiting for us at the pier at Coney Island, glancing over the crushing waves that do carry away from the shore. It is intangible yet we reach for it. It is a wall of barbed wire we thrust our hands into, but we can never go back to that rock we once sat on, overlooking the land below, and thinking how fragile it must be. Since this time you have swallowed up the glamour of cheap living and fame; fifty cent cigars and ash trays, hotel gift cards, and measly pay checks, digressing upon a single night in December when you got to reminisce with your loved ones upon a burning pyre of indulgence. We have enough to get by, like a train charging into the zone ahead. Did we not once dream of our elysium fields to swarm us like wildfire? Did we not once quest for a utopian world of our own creations, where the world warped like a black hole around us? What little hard work we spent we then spent on our contraptions, and when the world turned on us we played games with the world. Since then a shade has left us for the place where you once resided; our memories of long ago drifting along the rivers of Hell, that do ordain us dead. The road drifted and carried us as our legs floated just below the road’s frozen surface. Yet as we do progress you spoke like a vehement, hellacious preacher, who only preached hate for fellow man. Your words skewed before my eyes like a serial killer ransom note, spoken from a true twisted throat, a dead ringing salesman, who travels the snowy roads in a black overcoat. We are here now, so we mustn't let shout, or point fingers at the ones who joke about, the crowds of idiots who we feel could not be barred to weigh down our great projects that we fought so hard to grasp to. What I feel you forget to realize when you carelessly scan the wiki, the good souls who could have grown to be just as positively fictionized, is that they toiled to climb an even taller mountain than the one you once looked at, in the same place you stood, but only now you leisure at the top and refuse to make room. We have all been brainwashed by this fake life that we’re now used to living, so that when I say “Mscoree” what do you envision? Perhaps some contributor plagued by bad decisions? Or like some a horrible criminal, even though they’ve never met him. In reality this mountain that separates us is on a different plane. We are one in the same; two people who drift down the same line, into infinity. These barriers are nothing but prejudice to the other. There is no need for it; to weigh votes from people we view as inferior less than others. Or else we become the children in the Lord of the Flies, squandering over what little power we can. Believe it or not, this hurts people.

“I admit, I could not decide previously if there was something wrong with him.” And truly there is. I do believe you’re ironically the most uninformed in the subject. Despite your prowling and patrolling, scanning and searching, I do believe you were never told. To that I thank those who had the respect to not assume I was broken, and possibly not spread rumors of my ill conceived being. To speak candidly, I am dying. I have attempted to cover this up for some time, with silly gimmicks and masks, but behind the screen there is just a sad person who has no future. As I sat alone working on some article that would never see the light of day, lit only by the moon’s illumination through my hospital window, I could not help but feel sad, alone, scared, but for the sake of all of you; the ones who cared, I covered it all up with a generally goofy attitude. This was my addiction, as I knew no other. “My tendency for dependency; Is offending me, it's upending me; I'm pretending, see, to be strong and free; From my dependency, it's warping me.” I’m sorry if I offended you or angered you. I honestly just don’t know what to do anymore to appease you. I tried to hide this for so long, all the while feeling ashamed for taking others down with me (“my cronies”). Maybe to you this is just a simple game, or a love to overpower people on the internet, but for me it’s all I have. I may not have a tomorrow. My articles are all I have left, and even they are doomed to fail. Deep down I m a person too, not merely a statistic, but someone who genuinely cares about this wiki. So go ahead and say whatever you wish of me, for it won’t matter soon. One day quite soon you will win, and you will have the honor of putting whatever you want on my tombstone.

With that said, can we please just find a compromise? I’m sure somewhere deep down in your heart you can find the compassion to at least treat me with respect, as if I wasn’t the liar or whatever that I am. I know I can’t do any of the things did I wanted to do in my life, but at least let me make some silly article, while I still can. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 21:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

That was beautiful, Ms. Sheer beauty. How long did that rant take for you to come up with? The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  00:38, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

I... Theres so much I would say. So much I could say, where it not for the No Cross rules. But for once. Just once:

Mscoree click here.

With reference to the above. I stand Brother. I don't know everything about you but man...

LG... Just once. Wipe any debt? Please? Back to zero?

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdvbD3vyMdA He may have messed up... but we all do.]

So say goodbye to the problem, not the person.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 12:14, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

ps. If you think I'm a crony.... no.

NCNC... IS NOT AN EFFING RULE.

<creepy Geoffrey Rush accent> It's more of a... guideline.

And doesn't apply here anyway.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  19:10, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ye I think you folks have strayed too far from the topic. LG, kindly restate why you firmly believe that Ms cannot adopt the article in question for us uninformed people (that is, myself).

21:21, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Holy wall of text, Batman!

Further proof that Ms lies, gentlemen. Disturbing that he went that low in it, though. Guess he does having something wrong "upstairs" too.

I have tried to find a compromise. Ms has failed to even consider the idea.

Lordganon (talk) 11:25, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

DR, did not include you in the "cronies." Ms has had more than ample opportunities to "reset" things, yet he keeps doing it. He's gotten second, third, even fourth chances. That I did not immediately block him for the first major rule violation listed here is a sign of that.

Overall...

Ms has utterly failed with DD articles. His Manchuria ones have been locked in position - i.e. he has ignored problems with them put forth by myself and the author of Siberia that needed to be fixed - for six months, and he has refused to do anything about it. Compromises have been tried, and ignored, constantly. He's even denied that they exist.

Then you have this. He's not followed a single rule about the process, and tried to change the content severely when he did it. Again, against rules.

Add to that his history - i.e. not listening to any of the admin team, and consistently failing to follow our rules.

If he were to get his hands on these at all, they'd be up for review within a week, I am sure of it. First problem, he'd just refuse to fix it.

I offered a compromise: listen to us, follow the rules, and fix problems with things he already has, and I'd drop some of the objections. The result of that - him refusing to even consider that offer, and then this - is obvious.

That is exactly why I oppose the concept.

Lordganon (talk) 11:25, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Lordganon, I am disappointed in you. How could you even say that? He literally just poured out his heart for you. You don’t even know him. And now I’m labeled as a crony? This is literally the most insensitive thing I have ever seen. I don't even know what else to say. Tr0llis (talk) 14:19, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

i dont know much about any of these problems, but i must admit, this whole situation and the fact that i dont watch tv is making this highly amusing to read XD.Nkbeeching (talk) 17:18, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

<sticks finger down back of throat>

You all disappoint me.

Firstly, Trollis. Shut up. You're not helping anyone, yourself included.

Ms. FFS. FFFS. If you have a problem, don't go straight to the TSPTF. As far as I can tell, there was no reason for you too. Your articles on Manchuria and what not are pretty damn implausible, and on Mayotte, it's not like it was just LG objecting. You have ridden over his objections before, like in this case of the adoption. LG voiced an objection... and you ignored it.

LG! FFS! FFFS! I expect you to be the mature one here!

"Further proof that Ms lies, gentlemen. Disturbing that he went that low in it, though. Guess he does having something wrong "upstairs" too."

Ms lies? WOAH. I've seen this, and though some of his statements are misleading, you seem to be marking him as the worst kind of pathological liar. I've seen some of those convos, and they are AS MUCH YOUR FAULT as his! He has ignored you and disrespected you in the past, I will not disagree to that. But he certainly is not a liar, and  has nothing 'wrong upstairs'. I've seen people before on this wiki who've been 'wrong upstairs'; Ms is way better than ANY of them.

The fact is that NEITHER of you can get over a few arguments you had a LONG time ago. DEAL WITH IT.

LG, you object to Ms' pages on reasons that are ridiculously trivial. You seem to constantly hound after him. Act your age.

Ms, what's wrong with you? Don't you get that the damn snakes bite? Some of LG's objections are trivial but most are based on fact, and you don't seem to be able to get your head around that. You need to stop complaining about previous possible injustices and move the hell on. Act your age.

This conversation shouldn't still be going on. LG. Ms screwed you over once. He repents it. LET IT GO. Ms. LG has been angry at you ever since said incident. LET IT GO, and stop giving him more opportunities.

As I said. You both disappoint me.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  19:39, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I will have to clear up misconceptions. For one - it has been established very clearly that Trollis is Ms' cousin or something close. That may make him a crony, it may not. What it does make him is someone close to Ms who will stick up for him. Glad to get that one out of the way.

Second point. Ms is not lying. I was hoping I was not going to have to give out the specifics but I have no choice left. On chat, Trollis randomly comes on chat and asks Ms: "How's chemo?". We are all taken by shock. I for one told him to shut up and make sure he talks to Ms about things like that in either real life or Private Chat. He understood his mistake and did not repeat it. Me and Guns were both present at the time. It was shocking but there is nothing wrong with Ms and he is not lying.

Third point. Ms is an idiot. There is no denying that. He destroyed my beautiful South Africa (to be taken lightly guys) and caused a lot of problems - some of which I will admit I have not gotten over, and which means I will not support him getting onto the admin team. Saying this, thinking he is still like that isn't accurate and he has improved significantly. No one said LG is to blame for all this or not to hold a grudge - there was and has been bad blood between them.

Fourth point. I am being honest here. Listen to Guns, god dammit. He may be exaggerating but he has the basic jist of what is going on. I would indeed wish Ms would listen more to some of my suggestions but the fact that he allowed me to edit the OMF article as I wish to make it better proves a worthwhile point that he is willing to work with other users and just add to the articles around. I would also wish that LG would not attack Ms so quickly and call him a far gone liar. It just isn't a great thing to say.

I have not seen this intensity of arguments in a long time - seldom have I been part of major ones until very recently. We need to lighten up on each other - there is too much aggression and bad feelings toward one another going on. Lets all just calm down, rethink what we are trying to say and do and then edit this wiki once more. We are all human - we all make mistakes and hold grudges. The point is to be able to work past it.

Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:04, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

And for god sake, quoting Lord of the Flies is not the way to go. For one my previous teacher could not see that Ralph was not a savage and there are people who do not "revert" to savagery. Quote Eminem if you have to, or someone else - but not that godforsaken book. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:15, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think I quoted like a half dozen things in there. Mscoree (talk) 20:17, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Just don't quote that book. Its got an ok message but its just ugh and its not all that great. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:20, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Oh my god LG is back into his batman phase.

Anyways, I have this to say:

Guys, seriously, stop insulting each other and learn to fix the problem instead of making it worse. Ms: You're in your late teens and you should be able to work with someone to overcome a challenge. LG: you're married and yet there are veiled insults in your posts.

We are all part of a civilized culture. Time to start acting like it, stop insulting each other, and fix the damn problem to get it over with.

Seriously, this is ridiculous, in my opinion.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 20:22, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I was a bit upset there. I hate to be called a crony for all this. Why? Every time you do Mscoree takes it personally. He hates that I am here, that I have to be, to care for him and all that, and I get called a crony for my close proximity to him. When you tell a young child his very existence is harming other people and their reputation, it’s must be very depressing. He didn’t choose this for us, by any means. Secondly, Imp I have nothing against you, but it is very hypocritical in my opinion to say “we all make mistakes and hold grudges. The point is to be able to work past it.”, basically lecturing us to let grudges go, then go on and say, “some of which I will admit I have not gotten over, and which means I will not support him getting onto the admin team”. That’s just my two cents anyway so please don’t get offended. Now, I believe the point of this discussion is not to guilt, or lecture, or whatever, but to solve the issue, so I’m sure that everyone would appreciate it if we could sort this out. Tr0llis (talk) 20:27, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry everyone for causing all this. hopefully we can resolve the actual issue. Please no more name calling, insults, etc. Mscoree (talk) 20:29, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. i understand your viewpoint. I don't hold grudges against Ms, what you quoted is my opinion. Me and Ms get along perfectly fine. We talk on chat, plan the next upgrades to the OMF article and talk about the random stuff you do on chat. I am sorry if it looks like I am holding a grudge. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:30, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

So this is why the TSPTF Talk Page is on Popular Pages now?

This and the idiot fomerly known as Octavian Marius.

Troll, you immediately back him up within really looking into it for yourself. Can't think of a better word then "crony," truth be told, to describe it. Apologies if you feel insulted by that, mind - not the intention.

Funny, Guns, how you say one thing and then immediately say the exact opposite in that rant, lol.

Sorry Guns, but I've ample proof that he lies, extensively. Not pathologically, far as I can tell, but enough so that I'm not buying a word he's saying. Nor has he ever "screwed me over" at all.

Got nothing to do with past arguments - fact of the matter is, he doesn't listen to any of us. All he has to do for me to look into dropping the objections is actually follow the adoption rules on one hand, and on the other, listen to criticisms and fix them for the articles he already has. Something I made rather clear many times by this point. He has declined to do so. His own fault.

Nothing "trivial" about them. Heck, they're not even complicated.

Sorry Imp, but this is the fourth occasion while I've admined sites online in which I have seen someone, when in trouble or trying to circumvent rules to get their way, try that line. Most of those had far more "proof" than someone who is at a minimum a RL friend do something like that. Want to take a guess how many in the past have been true/real? Answer is none. Hence, not buying it.

MP, nothing "veiled" or "insult" there.

Overall, what I desire is simple: Ms just has to bother to rules a very simple set of rules on one hand, and listen to things he's tried his damnest to ignore for up to a bit more than six months. Easy to do if he bothers. Not that, at this point, I think he will.

Lordganon (talk) 12:55, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Except ms is actually telling the truth though. How do we know you're not lying? NonEuclidean (talk) 13:24, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

LG. Have you noticed something?

EVERYBODY who read my 'rant' agreed with me.

I'm not denying that Ms has broken a lot of rules here. I'm not suggesting that he get leniency because he has cancer.

BUT FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

You DO have a grudge against Ms, no matter how much you deny it, and it is PAINFULLY obvious.

"screwed over" May be the wrong way to put it, but he did something stupid that attempted to depose you from you position.

LG. LET. IT. GO.

Again; I expect you to be the mature one here. You have let that expectation down in every way.

You have scarred this wiki, LG. You have ensured that we can never trust anyone ever again. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO US?? WAS THIS ON PURPOSE? YOU SICK MONSTER!!

I'm not entirely sure where this post degenerated into sarcastic humor, but it was near the beginning, I ''think. ''I think it was somewhere JUST after the 4th line.

So any TSPTF members out there want to help resolve this? Mscoree (talk) 16:18, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

I think the general message here is 'shut up, the both of you, but especially you, Ms.'

I was hoping after all this introductory stuff we could, you know...start. It seems we've both presented our sides to the story, and I was hoping some one could actually mediate now. Mscoree (talk) 19:54, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

This is an INTRODUCTION to you? To me, it's just a massive wall of text interspersed with insults.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  22:23, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently that's how we on the wiki peer mediate. Now that this is out of the way, can some members of the TSPTF please review this? Mscoree (talk) 22:27, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

Ms, the only thing we agreed here is that you're an idiot for coming to the TSPTF. It's not their job to mediate here. You made a proposal, LG objected, you ignored him and got banned. Where does the TSPTF get up here?

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:08, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

According to the rules it says you're supposed to "try to reach a comprise...If you cannot reach a comprise, appeal to the TSPTF." That's what I did, but so far no TSPTF member has actually began the appeal stuff yet. Mscoree (talk) 02:30, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

<Bangs head on desk>

That's because ''all of them thought that this argument should just be left alone. ''

They're not going to do anything because you still haven't attempted anything like a proper compromise.

You said you wanted to adopt the page- fine.

LG said he objected- fine.

You ignored LG- not fine- and then protested that your punishment was totally undeserved.

Imp suggested a compromise- fine.

LG said that the suggested compromise did not live up to his standards- fine.

Instead of hashing it out, you immediately came whining to the TSPTF- not fine.

LG and you had a huge shitfest here - not fine.

And now you're bringing it up again when the clear message from all of us here is stop flogging the horse.

18:55, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Anon Vandal
Just wrote 'Hi' on a page... I reverted it, then thought I should report it here, just to be safe

is link

Yank Adoption Rule Violation
Recently Yank claimed ownership over one of my articles without even asking me. He now claims he owns it even though I have clearly objected and he has bypassed all the adoption rules.

Links: Violation 1, Violation 2, No is Said

Fantastic links lol.

He means to link to this. I can't help but agree with Octivian. Although Yank would probably improve the article immensely, he still has to follow the rules. He very clearly didn't adopt the article correctly. Mscoree (talk) 22:27, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, American Empire.

The page was obso; no longer belonged to anyone. If Oct had wanted it he could've fought for it, and changed it.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  22:31, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Yankovic270#American_Kingdom also seems relevant...

I think what Octivian mean what that Yank could possibly write the new section of the page, once they had come to an agreement to share the page. Probably a big misunderstanding there. Octivian did hower make it clear that he does not want Yank to follow adopt the page, so this should be reverted. Mscoree (talk) 22:40, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

He said 'You can have the intire page'. Fairly basic Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. 22:43, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

No, he said "You can even have the intire page to write the news of the American Kingdom". If I'm translating Octivian speak correctly I think he's saying that once they agree to co write the article, Yank would have the entire page to write that one section. He kind of said it oddly. Regardless Octivian definitely does not want to give up the whole article, or he wouldn't of made this post. Mscoree (talk) 22:47, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well let's be honest guys...

One word: Sealand.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  23:00, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

OM, wrong all around. You lost any ownership rights the second it was marked obsolete. Lordganon (talk) 11:07, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Until now, I was not sure if custody of an article is lost if it is declared obsolete. Now I do know means: Oct, your argument is invalid. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

It basically means that the article is OFA and impossible.

OFA being the important thing here.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  22:13, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think the reason why Octi's brining this up is at least partially because I'm gumming up his stupid, illogical plans on PMII. By the way I've brought up the fact that he deserves a short banning for his disregard for the rules of the game.Yank 23:02, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I don't believe people get banned for actions in map games. Administrators don't usually take running someone else's map game into their own hands (usually). Maybe just ban him from the game. Mscoree (talk) 13:23, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well they do, for sockpuppeting.

And Yank was talking about banning him from PMII anyway, not the wiki.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig <font color="#000000">(Dammit, Guns!)  15:13, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Does seem that he probably has a motive from that dispute, Yank.

If people are being assholes in games, and fail to listen to warnings, they'll get blocked for that too.

Lordganon (talk) 12:32, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

I was talking about how yank stole my page on chat and IMP and MS told me i hould report him. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM  00:43, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Your version of the page was filled with implausible and insane meglomanical bullshit. You claimed that a survivor state based in a group of cabins could influence Superior. A survivor state that undoubtably has a population in the high hundreds somehow could influence a nation of millions. I tried, and am trying, to make it plausible and you respond with reporting me. And don't even pretend that bitterness over your stupid Scottish plans in PMII isn't a factor. Yank 02:26, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yank u have harassed me on the wiki mulitple times sence i joined, u have vadlized my dd pages, tried to pretend i don't exist in PMII, many things. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

You still think that PMII is one of the trashier map games that allows you to do whatever you want. And by the wiki's time you've been off the game for five days. So you don't exist. That's the rule. And instead of encouraging improvement of your abandoned obsolete DD article you scream "VANDAL!" to get your petty revenge on me. The rules say that when a page is obsoleted it becomes fair game. I have transformed at least one obsolete article into a canon part of DD. Yank 02:48, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oh u vandlized my pages even before the PMII thing and I hvae prof, it happend 6 mounths ago. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

The only page of yours I touched was the American Kingdom, and I haven't touched it since I started attempting to improve it. And that page is obsolete. What you ignore time and time again is that OBSOLETE PAGES ARE FAIR GAME! You are wrong, and yet you continue to waste everyone's time with your arguing. You are simply a spoiled brat, and it's about time you learn that you can't always get what you want. Especially when what you want is essentially petulant ignorant ego-tripping. Do us all a favor and just go away until you grow up. Considering how bratty you're being it seems like Catherine would be able to contribute to this wiki before that happens. Yank 18:32, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Oct needs to learn that his articles that are Obsolete aren't his articles anymore, they are fair game. I had the same problem (to a lesser extent) with Sealand.

6 mounths ago u all out vadlized my American Kingdom page, no joke. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM  21:36, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Link?

Every word you write just cements how brainless you are. Clearly our arguments are going in one ear and out the other. The moment DD pages are obsolete they are fair game. And even before it was obsolete the only thing I wanted to do was help it become graduated. But you insisted on every bit of your meglomanical insane bullshit. There is no way that a small group of cabins can inluence a nation thousands of times more populous than it. It has ben confirmed that you are a fool and you are wrong, and yet still you argue? Yank 21:42, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

6 MOUNTHS AGO  <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM   21:44, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

To be fair, that was vandalism... Undoubtably more plausible, but not allowed. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/American_Kingdom_(1983:_Doomsday)?diff=next&oldid=728377

Now you resort to the childish tactic of "If I shout my argument, I won't need to think it through". You are one of the most annoying people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Your American Kingdom is an irrational mess that didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming canon. I tried to help, but you ignored it. You are a brainless, self-important twit whose presence demeans us all. Kindly go away and never return. If this seems harsh it's just because you're too stupid to take the hint when this all began. You. Are. Still. Wrong. Nothing about that has changed.Yank 21:51, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Uncalled for much? Anyway, you did technically vandalise his page 6 months ago, and I don't know if that was allowed. Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

I do apologize. Quite frankly I see that I was wasting my effort. You can garauntee I  won't be spending another second on that piece of trash. I'm too busy with PMII anyway. Yank 21:56, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Wait. Was that aimed at me? Rude. You vandalised his page. It was several months ago, but you did. So yeah. Don't be a dick.

I once again apologize. The trash part was aimed at Octi. This is what I get for trying to improve a sub-par article, I guess. Yank 22:06, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oct, it's over. Yank, edit away. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:31, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Credit Card Thing
On the Forum, someone is doing credit card things. Nothing to do with althistory, appears to be spam.

I would close the thread, but I have not clue on how to. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:01, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Fallout of America
I am bringing this issue forward just because I am unsure of something. Recently, a user tried to delete the California Republic (Fallout of America) page. At first I was ok with it, but then I noticed that the user was not the original author. I reversed what I could, but I just wanted to bring this forward for the TSPTF's consideration.

I will investigate further.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:39, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

On further investigation, I have found out that the user is the auther of the timeline, but not the page itself.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:41, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

01effeek
Came on the wiki for the first time, joined chat, and immediately started spamming the letter "g" non stop. Seems like he is a troll. Ban? Mscoree (talk) 03:59, November 23, 2013 (UTC)

Active Users
I've noticed that a number of the Lts, Brass, and Constables listed as 'active' haven't posted in a long while, and in one case even left a message noting that. Feg's last edit was in January, Fed's was ban Rex for his actions on Stooge's blog, in August, Smoggy hasn't posted since Feb, Tbguy was in September... and those are just the Lieutenants, too. Among the Constables... Pita, Kenny, Hidan... Matt hasn't posted since before even I came on this wiki, in 2011.

Time to shuffle to the Officers Emeritus?

12:55, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I stand corrected about Fed; he has informed me that he will be returning for PM3.

Of coruse, since it doesn't involve Ms or Oct, no one is paying attention here. *sigh*.

23:13, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm paying attention. I see what you're saying, however, I have pretty much no say here so I have nothing to add. Mscoree (talk) 23:18, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

HAHAH! I HAVE BEEN PROVED RIGHT. I MENTIONED MS AND GOT A POST.

23:19, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should just move Smoggy and Feg for now. They show no sign of returnning.

23:20, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

And Verence and Vegas and Zack from the Ltcy.

23:22, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

And Matt. He hasn't posted since August 2011.

23:39, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

People come and go with their periods of activity around here. Happens. Most of the ones you list will come back when their "off" periods return.

Past that, never really liked the concept of moving people around, myself.

Lordganon (talk) 17:07, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes people go on semi-permanent leave, so it's hard to tell. I prefer letting the people move their name themselves if they know for a fact they will not be returning, or at least not for a long time. Also from what I understand many slightly inactive still browse the wiki here and there. Mscoree (talk) 21:49, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Petrarch310
I would like to report this new random user that just joined the Alt History Wiki Chat as of November 11 who was being incredibly racist and offensive towards those of Asian descent, as well as offending me for stating in the chat that I will report him. User:Edboy452    (talk) 04:48, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

Pics below

Koga blocked him from the chat, and I blocked him from the wiki outright. Lordganon (talk) 11:53, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

Vandal:
170.24.131.122 vandalised page. Undid their edit, but thought I'd let you know.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 18:24, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Khristian I. Alcantara
Nominated Franco-British Empire for deletion because it was lame.

00:47, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

Along with this page.

Also adding a bunch of random pictures and articles. This one raises concern.

CourageousLife (talk) 01:04, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

He'll be "back" in a few days. Lordganon (talk) 11:57, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem we need to worry about here, just thought you'd like to see the new wiki he created. CourageousLife (talk) 00:45, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

New format
Is it just me, or has the format of this wiki entirely changed?

22:28, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Wikia introduced a new layout today, hence why the new look. -Kogasa  2013 December 05, 00:29 (CET)

It's called Fluid Layout; it sucks, but wikia is using it globally. All wikis are now royally screwed in terms to their images, templates, and backgrounds.

--Scrawland the Scribble

Damn. Well, it's not THAT bad, I guess. Except you need to fix that top thing, which had links to everything.

22:56, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Heh. Doesn't really change much for us, overall. Only thing that is different far as I can tell is the font, quite honestly.

Guns, that hasn't changed.

Lordganon (talk) 21:19, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

It had when I edited it. It since reverted or something, I'm not sure. I posted here very soon after the Fluid Layout came up.

22:09, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

And I can definitely say that when it came up it still looked the same. Meh. Lordganon (talk) 03:09, December 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * I definitely see a difference. To me, the font looks bigger than before. Don't like but, but there's little I think I can do about it. -- 05:26, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

The only difference I see is the font. Anybody have a screenshot or something of the new layout? CourageousLife (talk) 05:30, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Far as I can tell from what wikia has said about it, only thing we'd see is the font. Rest of their changes don't effect our layout. Lordganon (talk) 06:14, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Have an idea, and so far it appears to be working for me. I manually changed my user "wikia.css" by adding a smaller font, and I believe it looks right about where it did before the changes. If you are a user whoes interested in doing the same, than add the following code to your user wikia.css ( http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:YOUR-USERNAME-HERE/wikia.css ):

.WikiaArticle     { font-size: 13px; }


 * I could also suggest adding this to the main code, but I'd rather have a consensus before I do anything (don't feel right deciding something site-wide when it can simply be done on a user to user basis). -- 23:32, December 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just send us back to normal Nuke, we'll all be grateful. :) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:34, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well actually... I kinda like the new thing... *blush*
 * 23:46, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Trevornator01
The user Trevornator01 has replaced all of the content on the Land Conquer (Map Game) page with a large sequence of "Vladamir has trolled you." Content has been rollbacked.

I believe that is cause for a ban.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:39, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ayup. Koga got'em. Lordganon (talk) 03:09, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Sir Matej
The user has been adding articles without permission from the author or caretaker of the Vergetarian World timeline. Should he be banned? Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:04, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

I recommend explaining to him that on certain timelines permission from the author is required to make articles. He appears to be new so he probably did not know any better. Mscoree (talk) 20:11, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Imp, I recall a bright young user who once drove Nuke to distraction by editing Venusian Haven.

What was his name? Imp-something, I think...

ahem *ba-dum tss*

20:29, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Shut up Guns.

Fine, I'll go message him. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:36, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Not something to block for, though something to warn over. With deletion notices added, of course. Lordganon (talk) 13:52, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

MP abusing admin rights
Recently, on the AvA page, after a discussion on whether or not a particular war was plausible or not, MP started rollbacking anything I tried to edit. As nothing I was posting was either spam or vandalism, I believe this is an abuse of admin privileges.

Just looking at the history of the AvA page, you can see the numerous times I have attempted to put out my point only to have it rollbacked seconds later by MP.

He claims he's just 'managing' his map game, but frankly speaking, if that were true he would argue it out with me, or bring in other moderators, as is the accepted practice when dealing with disputes between two mods. He has instead chosen to silence anything I say. At this point, I would not be surprised if he rollbacked my edits here.

Please, someone do something.

20:42, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Guns you were one of the people who complained about me going to the TSPTF, saying I was whining and that LG and the other brass don't care about problems in Map Games. Probably shouldn't have brought this here. As for what happened, you nuked Ireland for literally no reason. Why would the United Kingdom just nuke Ireland out of the blue? Mscoree (talk) 20:50, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. Also, he tried to talk to you in chat. Rollbacking is simply the quicker version of undoing, so you really shouldn't be calling this an abuse of power.

20:51, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

I believe he was doing the rollbacks until you managed to calm down. Mscoree (talk) 20:53, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, I was rollbacking the crossing out, which is not to be undone until a consensus has been reached. Furthermore, the talk page and chat are the places for such arguments that are not quickly resolved, as I told you.

In addition, this matter is regarding the right of Guns to nuke Ireland. However, there is no way that he could have known that Ireland approached Germany in the war, and even that is not a justification for invasion or nuclear attack. He even made another mod post, that a bomb exploded in London, to further justify his invasion.

Furthermore, ever since the esteemed Pita left the rights of AvA to both Scraw and myself, we have been joint owners of the series. That means we have ultimate control over anything that happens in game. Guns does not, and I was simply "managing" my game to prevent ASB content from being posted. I realize that there probably are better ways of maintaining the strikethrough than rollbacking, but there is always the talk page and chat, as I told him on chat.

Anyway, since Guns called it here, let us know what the rest of the TSPTF thinks.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 20:56, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

It IS an abuse of power because if he wanted to argue it, then he would have put something down. He didn't just erase my uncrossing; he also erased my argument.

And we DID have an argument on PM in the chat, where you eventually AGREED with me, or at least stopped disagreeing.

The esteemed Pita has returned. You may have noticed this.

I may not own the game but as mod I do have some right to at least voice my opinion. You constantly rolling back anything I post is a little further than 'managing'.

And the argument as to Ireland can be resolved somewhere else. What I'm saying here is that you are not even allowing me to make my argument. Don't clog up this page with it.

22:13, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Guns, nowhere did I agree or stop disagreeing, either on chat or anywhere else.

Guns, the chat or talk page is for longer arguments. Not the game page, where edit conflicts happen way too often.

Pita has returned, but that does not mean his ownership of the franchise has. You will notice how he is not a mod on the page (or, at least, I do not think he is).

You have a right to voice your opinion, preferably on the talk page or chat, but that does not make your opinion right.

I did let you make your argument. If you remember, I did not even try to prevent your argument on chat at all.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:18, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Guns suck it up and shut up. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:22, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

You did, actually. Before I uncrossed my post you had ceased to say anything on the talkpage.

And what do you mean longer arguments? It was 2 posts long. What's your definition of long? Over one word? Accepted practice is, if it gets too long, move it; otherwise, don't screw it up. Or, at least, move the discussion onto the talkpage. You had NO right to delete what I said.

You let me make my argument on chat... while I had the mother of all bad connections... and stated that I had one, several times...

If I had the right to voice my opinion, then please explain your motives for repeatedly rolling back said opinion?

Suck it up and shut up? You mean, like, stop posting all together? Leave the wiki? If that's what you feel, then I guess I must be a negative influence on the wiki. Otherwise, make an actual decision here, hmm?

23:25, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, never mind. The dispute has been resolved. However, just for posterity, he is not allowed to use rollback to screw with non-vandalism/screwed-up-code/trolling. Right?

23:33, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

That is for the admins to decide, not for you, guns. And since the dispute is more or less over now, it should hardly matter.

This is done, I think.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:42, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

It IS required, because I want to prevent further such occurences. And you notice how it was a question?

23:45, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't anything wrong that he did, Guns. Should he have talked to you instead of rollback? Yes. But nothing wrong with him doing it - his game. Lordganon (talk) 13:54, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

What gets you banned and for how long
What gets you banned here, and for what amount of time DS|The Rainbow Machete 00:02, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say generally not following the rules is a good place to start. As for the length, that usually is up to the administrator doing the banning (hopefully some TSPTF members can state their own personal preferences). Punishment lengths also grow per number of incidents, so if you keep doing the same thing you get a longer ban time. Mscoree (talk) 02:06, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

General protocol for blocks is:

3 days first offense, 7 days second offense, 2 weeks third offense, etc. with each offense (with warnings in between) going one step down the times supplied for us on the list in the block menu.

Spammers, sock-puppets, and the like will get more.

1000 years for sock-puppeting.

For harassment, being overly offensive, attacks on people, and things like that, double blocks.

Several things, mostly involving format on nomination pages or the file things Nuke works on, will start with a day block as a warning.

Several times we've also done day or less blocks to halt "rage" actions by users on their work, to get someone's attention, or to make points.

Lordganon (talk) 16:16, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

VPA Bunkueanun and VBP.2014A
A user by the name of VBP.2014A uploaded a duplicate today. While informing him of this, I noticed that MS questioned him about multiple accounts. Reading his profile, it states that:

"My original work is from a user called "VPA Bunkueanun", which is I have worked on Britannica's World and New Sovereign World Order."

I'm well are of VPA Bunkueanun, who I've recently blocked for duplicating just a few days ago. Seeing this, I blocked VBP for a week (seeing as he duplicated a fourth time as of now) and blocked VPA for 1000 years (as this is violates the policy of multiple accounts). I've also allowed this user to edit their own talk page to explain himself, but he's still blocked for a week for duplicating (now on multiple accounts). -- 00:25, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

Glad I could help. Mscoree (talk) 01:16, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, openly admitting he has a sockpuppet account. Well we will need to have a chat. With the original user. Imp (Say Hi?!) 05:34, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

Slight fault
Any idea why the visual edit mode is not coming up on any edit I try to make? --David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 13:45, December 28, 2013 (UTC)

It seems to work fine for me. Wikia might have been doing something at the time. Mscoree (talk) 14:10, December 28, 2013 (UTC)

As I say a lot around here, if you find a feature not working, just assume wikia is messing with it, and try again later. Lordganon (talk) 16:17, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

Vandal
The IP of 93.135.229.51 just blanked one of my pages. Mscoree (talk) 15:05, December 29, 2013 (UTC)

He continues to blank the page after I undo it. Can someone please block this IP? Mscoree (talk) 15:10, December 29, 2013 (UTC)

Okay make that more than one page: here, here, and here too. Mscoree (talk) 15:12, December 29, 2013 (UTC)

I was tracking the IP and it led to a proxy in Germany. User:Edboy452    (talk) 16:30, December 29, 2013 (UTC)

Here's his new IP. Please help. Mscoree (talk) 14:26, December 30, 2013 (UTC)

Had already blocked him before you said that, MS.

Wonder what person got pissed off for us deleting nonsense that didn't follow our clear rules, or getting blocked, this time. Heh.

Lordganon (talk) 16:18, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

Another Vandal
There is another vandal on the loose. User:Edboy452    (talk) 02:14, December 31, 2013 (UTC) http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:108.192.53.53#Random_User.27s_Location

Blocked already. Lordganon (talk) 16:19, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

Vandal
This IP has vandalized a page. Mscoree (talk) 18:26, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Looks like Fed has fixed it. Mscoree (talk) 18:27, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Lordganon, stop
Can you please stop deleting my categories, forums and messages? Thank you! Ismael Perez (Talk) 03:07, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

He won't...as well as us (TSPTF)!!! Stop categorizing very blatantly, you making us tired for reverting your false categorization! FirstStooge (talk) 04:02, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, you decatagorized my article Quisqueya (which is actually OTL Hispaniola.) He also deleted my forum to request wiki affiliation with a newly created wiki of mine, Alternate Future Wiki. Ismael Perez (Talk) 04:08, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Me. I NEVER decategorized anything on your Quisqueya article. But, indeed I decategorized your other articles as it had the false categorizations. And also, your thread is a spam. Advertising another wiki or promoting wiki affiliation on this wiki is strictly forbidden, especially on the forum. FirstStooge (talk) 04:15, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not trying to advertise my wiki, I'm just looking for affiliations with affiliations with wiki's similar to mine such as this one. According to community central, it states that the admins on two or more wiki's, in this case me and the TSPTF, have to decide to create affiliations. Ismael Perez (Talk) 04:18, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

One does not simply tell LG to stop.

Also, LG clearly does not seek affiliation with you.

04:26, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Very nice, Scraw (although I already typed a similar thing at the same time you did, made me into an edit conflict with you... XD)

And for you, Ismael, you can not do that on the Forum, which is resemble a spam. Don't forget your Vegan thread which is totally a spam. FirstStooge (talk) 04:33, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

HOW DARE YOU CONFUSE ME FOR SCRAW??

20:01, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Calm, Guns, calm... :3 FirstStooge (talk) 01:16, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

I was convincing and forcing people to be vegetarians because eating meat is wrong. Ismael Perez (Talk) 03:56, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

Forcing? Our wiki is guarantee a freedom of choice. And also, this is an Alternate History wiki, not a Meat Lover one. Please never did again such a nonsense thing for ever. FirstStooge (talk) 04:01, January 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Nothing against Vegans but forcing an opinion like this on a site not dedicated to such things is not just spam but the definition of "douchebaggery." I'm all for free speech but you need to take it down a notch. If you're interested in alternate history (as we all are), please focus on alternate history (from the looks of it, your timeline about the Americas looks like an interesting read). But if you wish to spam users about your websites and personal views than either leave them at the door or you can find another site. Sorry to say, but these are your two options (pretty straightforward). -- 04:27, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

This one is seems being so annoying recently such as spamming on the forum with his pro-Vegan thread, neglecting the convention regarding the categorization and darely editing the Convention page just for making a protest over how this wiki run. FirstStooge (talk) 00:18, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

More of MS and his categorizing


MS is at it again. He went and added categories to as many templates as he could get to before I stopped him. By adding these cats, he also added unnecessary spaces to these templates. Several of these templates were part of an intricate chain to form larger templates. By adding these spaces, he pretty much damaged many of these larger templates (the most noticeable one being the standard nation infobox).

The following is a image shows how these errors screwed up a box. I went ahead and spent the last hour reverting his edits, and hopefully the site should be back to normal within a few hours (template changes take time to take affect).

I told MS I wasn't going to punish him for this (what's the point?). But I'll leave this up to LG if he finds it necessary. At this point, I'm just glad its over with. -- 05:58, January 12, 2014 (UTC)



Thanks to the good people of the wiki I'm proud to announce that NationInfo now looks like this (second image). Mscoree (talk) 06:01, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

DAMMIT MS. Learn that the snake bites, hmm? This is the sixth or seventh time you've screwed up categorization. Why the hell do you persist? You're not in the TSPTF, it's not your job, so cool it and stop picking up the snake. Everyone gets pissed off by now.

18:09, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Mscoree (talk) 19:04, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

...Are you kidding me, MS? All the times I warned you about such things, and you go and do it again anyway? And to top it all off, you effectively vandalized all those templates as well. Not only was that without permission, violating the wiki rules, but also screwing each of them up in a big way.

All of this despite being told several times that doing such things would violate the wiki rules, and being explicitly warned in the past to not categorize anything that you had not added to the wiki yourself. To top it off, you actually ignored Nuke to some degree.

At this point, you're lucky that was Nuke that dealt with you at first, and that I had to move suddenly because of flood damage, keeping me from doing more than looking in. Now that I have the time to go back over the edits... Yikes. Meant I had a lot of time to think about what to do.

So, I decided to not go with the month I have previously stated I would do. Instead, it'll be two weeks. I suggest you think about your actions, and remember to listen to the administration in the future.

Lordganon (talk) 21:19, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

LG has REALLY DONE IT THIS TIME!!!! He banned MsCoree from the wikia for 2 [expletive deleted] weeks and all against Nuke's will. I say we get him to unban him. Otherwise it's impeachment time. Ratc3333 Here, Prepare for Combat (talk) 21:50, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Lg has not gone against Nuke's will, he even stated "I told MS I wasn't going to punish him for this (what's the point?). But I'll leave this up to LG if he finds it necessary. At this point, I'm just glad its over with." This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 21:54, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * To be fair, I specifically said "...I wasn't going to punish him... But I'll leave this up to LG if he finds it necessary." LG looked at the situation and deemed it necessary to block MS. I would've done so at the beginning but, as I've said before, "what's the point?". He's been blocked multiple times and doesn't learn from his mistakes. Also given the situation LG's been going through at home, MS should be lucky he wasn't blocked longer (as LG said). -- 22:12, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I'f like to interject if I may. Maybe ms has learned from his mistakes and decided therefore to categorize more? -- Tr0llis (talk) 22:26, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

User Ratc3333 is definitely a total fool, right? What a Ms's loyal stooge.

And for you Trollis, if Ms has learned from his mistakes, then he supposed NOT categorizes more. FirstStooge (talk) 01:16, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Unban from chat
Is it ok for me to be unbanned from chat? -- Ismael777 20:58, January 12, 2014‎

I'll stop with the veganism. Ismael Perez (talk • contribs • blog) 15:24, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Possible Vandal
208.83.73.162. Mscoree (talk) 19:12, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

And another. 69.180.77.79 Mscoree (talk) 21:01, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

And another. 69.14.168.176 Mscoree (talk) 03:25, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Ms and Sockpuppets
Recently, it came to my attention that there were a couple users who followed Ms pretty devoutely. I did not think it was too much of a problem unti a user showed me more evidence to backthe point was making about Ms and his "followers". He aksed me to ask wikia to run IP checks on them. I agreed as the evidence was pretty supporting of the fact. Two requests later, wikia gave me results which surprised even me. Turns out Ms, and users Tr0llis and NonEuclidean all share the same IP, making them probable sockpuppets.

Now Ms is a devoted member of the wiki but having sockpuppets makes me question his motives. As such, I leave it for the wiki to decide of the outcome to this. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:34, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! I've been saying this for ages. Maybe now the rest of his gang will stop following blindly.

22:36, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Mmm. Well, Frankly, if it had just been Trollis, Ms could be right, it could just be a cousin, but I mean how many cousins can you have living your you house taking care of you? Might want to check Razor too.

22:37, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not saying I disagree with this (wouldn't surprise me if he was indeed doing this), but I recall him saying somethings months ago to the tune of "they are [his] friends from school" (i.e., they are all using the same school computers). Or that could've been another user I'm thinking of. -- 22:44, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Apparently they all now live in the same house taking care of the cancerous Ms. (No offense intended.)
 * 22:46, January 19, 2014 (UTC)



This is my evidence. Wikia says everytime they match. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:49, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not a sockpuppet. Hasn't this already been brough up? This is all started when Local started trolling. NonEuclidean (talk) 22:50, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Not at all, Ms. THis was started when Imp ran the checks. Local just spread the news.

22:52, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Many people have visited ms when he was sick and subsuquentially edited while there. MS afterall was the one who got me into this wiki. If that is now against the rules you might as well ban all of us. Edboy, Razor, Tykur, all of us. I don't even know what to day anymore. NonEuclidean (talk) 23:01, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it, they say.

Ms, calm down. Justice will prevail.

23:03, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I do point out that the idea of getting friends into the wikia has been done before. I myself have done it before. The users Ihavesonar and Jslater are both of my real life friends. Despite my best attempts, they later ditched the wikia.

Since this is the case, I do suppose it is possible that they are indeed friends posting from the same house, but I suppose we should hear from them beforehand.

Which, under the current ban, will be in two weeks.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:30, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I too have friends posting. CountingSheep and beloved FP are both my friends. Another mate said he might join as Mr Gorbachov (DON'T TAKE THAT USER NAME!). Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:39, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

To prove we're not sock puppets we all made edits while we were signed out, and here are our IPs:

User:Edboy452    (talk) 23:42, January 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * 173.61.82.5
 * 68.37.133.176
 * 173.61.34.196
 * 85.114.142.168

Umm, what? That proves YOU aren't a sock. The others could easily be faked.

23:52, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I was told about the matching IP thing before, and I do indeed find it suspicious. Right now, all of the matching accounts might be sockpuppets, or NonEuc's story might be true and they are just visiting Ms while he is sick and editing there. It has happened before, so I don't see any reason for that to be fake - however, I don't see any reason for it to be true either.

That being said, Guns, knock it off. You're not helping. Fed (talk) 23:56, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

So I am on skype with Ms and his gang, and I can confirm that the majority of them are all different people. They check out both in skype and in facebook accounts, which are all different and are clearly not fake accounts. You can also ask Crimson and Turtle, who are in the call with me.

I hope this clarifies the issue.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:40, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Soooo....wikia was wrong?

00:43, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Well no, but it might mean they edit constantly from the same site. Fed (talk) 00:49, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I think because we've edited from the same IP before it linked us, but we've presented a good amount of evidence to prove that we aren't sockpuppets. NonEuclidean (talk) 00:52, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I'm in the same Skype call as MP, Crim, Turtle, and Ms's "gang". I can confirm that they are different people. Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 01:00, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I cant beleive this. Mscoree is a huge contributer, helpful, kind, hell, he made one of the only mapgames that had a shot at getting near Principia Moderni. And i hated the game. DS|The Rainbow Machete 01:07, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

You can't believe this? What can't you believe?

If we have suspicions that somebody is sockpuppeting, we will investigate them, no matter if that person is Lordganon, Imp, myself, Ms, you or Owen. Fed (talk) 01:12, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I don't really know what is happening, or hasn't happened. If Ms has Puppets, block them, if not, don't. Dean, better safe than sorry Local Mafia Boss (Talk) (Blog)

Define Ms' "gang"? We're only talking about NonEuc and Trollis here, and I've never seen them editing in a fashion that would show that they are 2 different people.

18:03, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

In the Skype call we had Eip, MP, Crim, MS, Edboy, Razor, UglyTurtle, and myself (NonEuc had to go by that point). Earlier NonEuc, MS, Edboy, and Razor all presented their differing IP's by editing while not logged in. Lastly, we presented MS', Edboy's, Razor's, NonEuc's, my own, and a few other people's facebook profiles as well. I believe pictures were also presented. Tr0llis (talk) 19:11, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

1) trollis, we need crim, mp, and turtle to confirm this

2) There is a chance Ms is sockpuppeting, and that his sockpupets are making stuff up/people are defending him. there is also a chance that he is innocent, we dont have enough evidence yet Trollis no offence your reliability isnt that high. im suggesting that we take the ip multiple times over a course of (insert time here) this way we know wether its just a friend editing at his house at ironically the same date as we took the ip or if hes actually sockpuppeting.Toby

So MP and Eip have already made statements here, and they all have vouched for this in chat. I'm sure Crim and Ugly will be happy to make statements here too. Tr0llis (talk) 21:56, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I vouch for what Trollis has said. He and Ms are in fact different people, and I welcome Crim and Turtle to say their input regarding this matter.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:02, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

We have, I believe, more proof of the fact that Tr0llis NonEuc and co are not Ms' puppets that what we don't. MP and Eip, as Tr0llis said, have vouched for that, and Crim has mentioned a Skype chat more than once, so I believe he just has to officialise things.

So, Toby and Guns, please get off your high horses and wait to drop your empire of incriminations and indirect attacks when we have resolved this debacle. Fed (talk) 22:16, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

High horse? I think not.

My apologies to NonEuc and Trollis.

22:18, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

On behalf of the constables of the TSPTF, I would like to apologize to all parties involved. The way this was handled was unprofessional and lackluster. The shameful display on chat as well as the treatment of those accused was unacceptable to say the least. Of course, we also apologize for falsely accusing Ms of sockpuppetry. Doing so was not only a horrible mistake, but a terrible disservice to a dedicated user on this wiki, regardless of how some of us feel about him. Rest assured, the way this was handled on chat will not be repeated. For those of you who remained calm on chat and otherwise, thank you. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 22:31, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

I second this. We all did get carried away and the information I had was the reason why I was not as controlled on the matter as I should have been once more I apologize but I believe having an IP check now and getting all this sorry  out is good for the future as situations like these will not once more arise as we know Ms does not have sockpuppets. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:22, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I would also like to apolgosise for any wrong doing I have done on my part regarding this situation. Now that it is confirmed via Skype and Facebook that Trollis and NonEuc are not sockpuppets of Ms, we need to learn from these mistakes and move forward, hopefully this will never happen again. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 23:49, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I've been following this whole thing and would like to point out that, as much as the good sentiment and warm fuzzies are making everyone feel super good about themselves, '''Ms is still blocked. Someone go unblock him! '''CourageousLife (talk) 04:49, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

Ms is actually blocked for a reason that is not related to this incident. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 22:31, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, that other thing. Never mind, keep calm and carry on. CourageousLife (talk) 04:58, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not certain how Skype works, and whilst I'm sure they are not sockpuppets, I feel obliged to point out that I could post links to like... 20 Facebook Accounts. That doesn't make me 20 people. Although, again, I don't know what Skype is like, so I am probably wrong about this, just playing the devil's adovocate

Local, with Skype, you can see directly your friend through video streaming. FirstStooge (talk) 09:56, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Guns Panics
Umm, guys, we have some minor problems.

Now we're supposed to have one Admin- that is Brass or El Tee- per 1000 pages.

We have 20 admins but over 27,000 pages.

Also, of those 20 admins, several are gone and are clearly not coming back.

Ben made it clear he was never returning, Matt hasn't edited since before Imp joined, in mid 2011, Mitro had a family emergency and even left his blog.

I'm somewhat curious here- did no one notice, or was this just accepted as status quo?

00:32, January 24, 2014 (UTC)

User numbers overall have decreased too so that is why we aren't really in need of too many active Lt. or Brass. Plus, the numbers of Constables helps even out numbers and usually the vandalism is enough for Constables to deal with and for repeat offenders the Lt's are messaged through talkpages or TSPTF talkpage and problem is taken care of. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:48, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

That "rule" hasn't been valid on on the books for a long time now, Guns. Wholly and utterly unnecessary, and that became extremely obvious at one point.

Ben, imo, still pops in and is active on occasion.

And, overall, user numbers are trending upwards.

Lordganon (talk) 13:05, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Two vandals at once
Here are: anons 212.219.81.100 and 77.98.184.123, vandalized List of Emperors of Aztec Empire (Great Empires) page with such as obscene words. FirstStooge (talk) 00:26, January 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * I blocked them both. -- 01:51, January 28, 2014 (UTC)

Possible Troublemaker
I thought it would be best to bring to a higher-up's attention that User:DCcomedian13 may be a possible troublemaker. He has swastikas and Nazi references in his signature, which will obviously cause offense in some users. While I am unphased by whatever type of game this guy's playing, we may want to be on the lookout and stop any potential conflict before it starts. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 05:00, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

A quote from DComedian13's message on Oct's talkpage:


 * "In my views of Nazism, I only believe in persecuting and murdering blacks and people who shows devotion to religion (I'm atheist)"

Well, this guy is indeed insane. FirstStooge (talk) 05:48, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

How about we let him be Germany in the next AVA game? Hehehe.Spartian300 (talk) 10:53, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Though not a member of the TSPF, I suggest you block him permanently. It's the one solution. (Crap, slight Holocaust reference.) Spartian300 (talk) 09:17, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

No. That is wiser if we waiting for his own explanation. FirstStooge (talk) 09:53, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

well id like to request that he atleast change his signature, my family survived the holocaust and in general i do not tolerate any signs of admiration to the ..........

Nkbeeching (talk) 11:20, January 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * This guy is clearly being a troll (I don't believe for a second he is seriously both a Nazi and a communist). While I wouldn't block him for saying Nazi stuff, I will indeed inform him about his signature (which he seems to have already been mentioned about). If he continues to be a nuisance than I won't hesitate to block him. -- 15:11, January 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * I had the feeling this guy had adopted some '2edgy4u' attitude. Thanks, Nuke. Banner_of_the_Holy_Roman_Emperor_with_haloes_(1400-1806).svg Labarum.jpg CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 17:07, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal(s)
Here are, three IPs that made edit conflicts with me on World War I (Early Colonization) page: FirstStooge (talk) 14:43, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * 72.5.190.175
 * 72.5.190.174
 * 72.5.190.168


 * I blocked all three. -- 15:35, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism and Swearing
I have recently had the unfortune of having to cross paths with Feudalplague, who I have sadly found to be a vindictive enemy.

In PM3, I realized massive mistakes on his algoritihim, and suggested him to change the algo. He replied quite uncouthly, using the "F-word" no less than 19 times in an hour long conversation, often directed at me. Furthermore, Feud used the "S-word" 9 times in our conversation, and "G-d D-word" three times, which is personally offensive as a religious offense.

Undetterred because I wanted a fair algorithim, I went on to post a proper (in my opinion) algo. on the PM3 talk page. However, Feud decided that he would remove my proposal, which I never gave him permission to remove. I would consider this to be vandalism, because he removed my post on the PM3 talkpage.

Here is the link that shows what happened, including him striking out wat I had to say and removing my algorithim. -- http://althistory.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3APrincipia_Moderni_III_%28Map_Game%29&diff=916628&oldid=916623

This is nothing less than an attempt to cover up what I have discovered as a terrible inaccuracy in the algorithim. At one point, he even went so far to say (edited), "I DONT FU*KING CARE" when presented with a factual argument about what was wrong.

Later on, he returned to chatand admitted that he was high while on chat previously.

Anyone who knows Feud knows of his "potty mouth." I feel personally offended and insulted by what Feud had to say, and his way of addressing the issues. I leave the decisions up to the mods. 05:46, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Warned him. He does it again, let us know and he will get blocked. Lordganon (talk) 12:27, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure the Principia ModernI III moderators will look into the accuracy of the algorithm. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. Mscoree (talk) 14:02, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Another anon vandal
Here is, I caught another, new anon vandal: He is making such a mess around American Expansion page
 * 98.251.2.194

FirstStooge (talk) 07:19, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Blocked. Lordganon (talk) 12:27, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Anon vandal on PMIII page
Me Willster Eiplec and a few others noticed an anon vandal screwing around and changing things to whore, Chips'ndip random crap like that hes making things really ridiculous on the page. im gonna revet his edits for not but is there anything we could do about this? I went ahead and reverted the edits but seriously this guy was awful, can you all please block his I.P? Bowties are Cool (talk) 05:57, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * 50.184.128.113

Done. I have a feeling all these anons are one person. So I blocked for 1 week. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:25, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Imp. Bowties are Cool (talk) 17:29, February 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * No problem :) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:37, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Found another guy. Inserting false information into the PMIII page. The guy has been already blocked by Imp before. Looks like this anon didn't get the message. THE CULPRIT AND HIS CRIMES

CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 03:42, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

Spar
He has been constantly spamming away and annoying users in general. 3 day ban to get the message across for him to stop? Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:06, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

Spar....tian?

17:31, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

Yep. See the link to "He" lol. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:37, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

I do have to agree, Spartian seems to be trolling and spamming around and little more, and it's getting anoying. It might be time for him to get a heavier warning. Fed (talk) 18:57, February 9, 2014 (UTC)

Currently me and Fed have given him one last chance. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:36, February 9, 2014 (UTC)

He was blocked for three days - and I think most users approved the move (I asked them on chat). Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:16, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Happychickenvermin
A user by the name of Happychickenvermin have been blocked for a third time today for continued duplications. I first blocked him for five hours, which was because he did a massive file dump onto the site (uploading over 30 duplicates in the process). Despite getting into contact with me, he continued to duplicate, in which I blocked him for a week. Today he re-uploaded a file I told him was a duplicate plus another, so now its two weeks.

This guy is really getting on my nerves. Especially since he continues to file dump and forces me to check on each file. Just letting you all know about this. -- 15:38, February 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * This guy just got off of his two week block and automatically duplicates again. I now blocked him for a month. I'm going to be requesting a permanent block if this continues. -- 17:51, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

GunsnadGlory
Earlier today on the Alternate History Live Chat during a discussion about the map game Principia Modernii III, the user GunsnadGlory has said offensive things to players of the game including me and multiple other users. When some users and I were discussing an algorithm that he has lost fair and square, he made vulgar comments to some of those belligerents on the side opposing him. Here are some screenshots I took, as well as two more from somebody that wants to remain anonymous that he sent to me through imgur. I have underlined key phrases in black.

Thank you for any response in the near future. User:Edboy452    (talk) 01:32, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes, let's point out some of the less rude things Guns has said despite he himself saying things much worse than this on a normal day. Quite frankly, most of us talk like that in chat. Also Ms took the ones with the blacking out through process of elimination.

01:42, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Good point Scraw. Ed asked me to take some pictures for him. Mscoree (talk) 01:48, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

I would've took screenshots of the worse things that Guns has said on chat, however it wasn't on my mind during those time periods. User:Edboy452    (talk) 02:15, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

This little squabble does raise an interesting point; you're both acting like little children lately. This isn't some high school where we sit around gossiping like teenage girls. Ms (and your bloody associates) and Guns, put aside your differences like grown men or cease communicating with each other. Fighting like this is not an option, and this goes for the both of you. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 04:09, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree with Crim. Quite simply, chat needs to be re-regulated. No, no bans for (squirrel) or (books), but bans for language. I think those rules are largely abandoned, and I do not know why.

We are historians, academics. It is not the place of historians to be crass or abusers of the language which we ought to treasure. 04:15, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Plz you think too much too far too heavily on the wrong things.

04:18, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Chat isn't a gathering place of scholars. It's more like a containment area. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 04:22, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

If you can't stand the heat, get out of chat. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:12, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * So it must be saying something about me the fact that chat doesn't even open in my computer.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:03, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Rex, for that beautiful message of peace and hope. I'll follow that advice and make sure to post the next series of racist things you post right on this page too.

22:25, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

To Crim, this is between Edboy and Guns. I don't mind what Guns has said. Ed just asked me to take some pictures too so he could make sure he got everything, so I complied and helped him out. Mscoree (talk) 20:10, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. Ed, the next time YOU come on and behave much worse than this- most of the time- I'll be sure to paste THAT here too, mmkay?

20:12, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal
This anonymous IP has vandalized the 1983 overview timeline: 67.253.253.154. Mscoree (talk) 03:00, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

TBguy has taken care of it. Mscoree (talk) 13:09, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

99.249.21.44. Banned by Imp. Mscoree (talk) 16:29, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

So? FirstStooge (talk) 09:24, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Can we consider it as an Althist?
Just in case: FirstStooge (talk) 10:44, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * America Takes All Lands From Mexico And Ottoman Empire
 * List of nations (America Takes All Lands From Mexico And Ottoman Empire)


 * Definitely looks out there IMO. Though I don't see anything which doesn't make it AH. Probably ASB at best. -- 14:57, February 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * I guess we should just let the guy get some wiki experience before he himself realises how the wiki works and he changes the name and such. He should get around to it in a month or two (quicker if he joins chat). [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:04, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Copyright Claim/Takedown Request
I received this message:

"I do not want to sign in, I am the copyright owner of the image I responded to.

My name is Ken Smith, and the website is TimewalkerStudios.com

I did not authorize, or give permission that this image be displayed on this site. The image displayed clearly states my copyright information, and that ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

I demand that this image be removed. This image being displayed here on this site without permission impacts my ability to present and display this image to my established retail market.

&mdash; Ken Smith"

in regards to this image:

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/File:The_zombie_defense_force_yippie_ki_yay_postcard-raf47f30a9a1d4a25a218b2f5350679e7_vgbaq_8byvr_512.jpg

I removed the image after confirming that the website was the origin of the image, but LG must have some other information as he restored it without explaining why. I assumed that there must have been a new protocol I didn't follow so I'm posting this here.Oerwinde (talk) 08:56, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

This sounds like an open and shut case. If the guy wishes to have his content removed from this site we should abide by this. Though I can't explain LG's reasoning for reverting it back. I'd like to assume he didn't realize its removal was by request, but he did state "unnecessary" as part of this description for reverting this. Let's give it a bet to see what LG has to say. Maybe he sees something we can't. -- 18:11, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

This sort of thing should have at least had some discussion before one admin over-rides another's decision. The image was posted with no notation as to source, but the owner found it anyway. That is impressive on the owner's part and indicates he is very serious. Our whole wiki could be affected, so I would recommend immediate removal of this poster -- and probably the others there as well. The source info indicates only that the images seem to be digital photos or scans. SouthWriter (talk) 14:28, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Wikia, and all such entities, has something called a "fair use policy." Under both this policy and copyright law, so long as nothing copyrighted is used for profit, said item - i.e. an image like this - is considered to be "fair use." Thus, they have no ground to stand on.

Nor can we know if that person is the copyright holder. And, if they are, so what? They have no right to do such a thing, and to say that it is "harming their ability to profit" from their item is simply not true.

Quite frankly, Oer had no reason to do such a thing, especially without asking anyone. Let alone taking a random user's word.

Nothing is "effected" by it. There is literally no impact to them, and nothing that can be done by them either. Again, fair use. Same laws that allow for "parody."

Lordganon (talk) 11:41, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

Chat?
I am having real trouble with chat right now. I can't get on, and it said server error. Does anyone know what this is caused by? Local Mafia Boss (Talk) (Blog)

Bit late, but assume it was just wikia messing with the code. Lordganon (talk) 11:30, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

PMIII Dispute Devolving into Harassment
Recently on the map game Principia Moderni III, a player dispute between NovaSims and Jbwncster regarding a war and it's treaty, has devolved into Nova's continued harrassment of the new player, Jbwncster. Rather than work out, or even entertain the idea of working out the treaty peacefully (Crimson especially tried to get Nova to negotiate, to no avail), Nova has not only refused simple negotiations, but she has gone to the point of straight harassment of Jbwnscter. She has done this by refusing to negotiate because Jb did not "sign a treaty" that Jb requested negotiations on before he would sign, and destroying his nation as a result. Furthermore, Nova has stated explicitly that she will continue to devastate his nation simply because she does not like Jbwncster, rather than using any sort of ingame reason, as required, for further dismemberment. She has also been telling Jbwncster that the mod diplomacy that approved (by a mod) a royal marriage between Jb's nation and a different one is not valid. Finally, when faced with opposition on her actions, and attempts to get her to simply go back to the previous treaty with no negotiations by Jb, she used the powerful argument that consisted of "You lost. Too bad. No negotiations now."

This combination of factors of harassment and childish behavior by Nova has caused the NEW player Jbwncster to both not only contemplate leaving PMIII, but also the wiki in it's entirety, stating that he understands why there are so few new players now. And even when Jbwncster stated these feelings to Nova, she only encouraged Jbwncster to leave. Also, recently, Jb has posted a picture of a chat between himself and Nova, to which Nova offers no reason for her relentless assault against Jb’s nation other than basically “I lost one, so it’s only fair I win. Suck it up” This proves nothing more than Nova's inability to properly and peacefully interact with player's she dislikes, to the point of encouraging new players to leave if they have a problem with her actions.

It is the act harassing a new player that I find so distasteful and wrong, that I will not allow it to stand. I wish not for new players to be turned off from the wiki in its entirety because of some user's childish actions, and unpunished harassment. By posting this complaint about the recent actions of NovaSims in relation to the new player Jbwncster, I hope that something can be done to make Nova see the error of her harassment, fix her behavior, and make sure new users stay on the wiki without fear of being harassed. Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 22:08, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

When map game problems reach the TSPTF it just snowballs into a bigger problem. I think you guys ought to try to settle this amongst yourselves. Just a suggestion.

23:54, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Scraw. This might have been better placed on the game talk page, although now that it's here let see to fixing the dispute as quickly as possible. Mscoree (talk) 00:02, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, both players are right and wrong (once again, the game aspects should have been dealt with by the mods on the PMIII talkpage).

Nova is right hands down with the event regarding the Bahamani and Vijaynagar. The mod event should never have happened - the hindu and muslim states fought countless numbers of wars in that era.

Jb should also not be editing another players post - if he got banned for doing so - then wiki rules support Nova, not Jb.

SAYING THAT, there is multiple things wrong with Nova's attitude. You simply do not tell a player to leave a map game - unless you have a good reason or something to s

upport your polite ask to leave. Nova's attitude stinks completely - you just cannot lose your cool like so and force other players to feel bad.

Plus, this whole situation would never have arisen if the mods had created events which caused chaos in the Timurid Empire for even trying to get that deep into India and such. This is weak modding, and if you do not want Nova as a mod - impeach. Don't bitch behind Nova's back while doing nothing in front of her - you think the actions are wrong then say they are wrong (not at Eip, lol).

Both of them are wrong - and it is clearly evident that both of them are annoying each other to such an extent they stop behaving civilly. Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:00, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

I did say that If anyone voices an legitimate opinion vocally you know its usually me .... I asked Multiple mods to handle the situation.... Scan came on and allowed Dean the ability to plausibly move into india like that (which i said was implausible to begin with) Regardless of both their attitudes totally sucking, im on the side of JB for the out of game stuff. I have no involvement in his editing of other peoples turns though.

Outside of that We tried to get an impeachment of Sims and then Scan pretty much renegged it and told us to stop.... How is that fair in the slightests when Sims was making favorable events in india (there is a rule for that now)... especially when we expect much better from out mods. This is how this spiraled out into this. As imp said you cant act like that towards someone and you certainly dont go and tell Andy to apologize for you after you spent 2 hours harassing someone and telling them to leave the game and the wikia... An apology like that doesnt fix all

I am not harrassing him. I have entire logs i can upload of him harrassing me as well, would you like me too? -Nova 04:16, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Jb is female? Mind = shattered.

04:25, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

So, he is harassing you, and you are harassing him (I guess he encouraged you to leave the wiki)? So, you, as a game mod, the archtype of how a player should behave, the model player for all other players, and the highest standing member of the PMIII player hierarchy, fought harassment with harassment? You thought it better to devote yourself to childish and senseless activity for several days rather than report it? You are supposed to be the cream of the crop, the model of player society, and the most well-behaved player in the game, yet you cannot be bothered to deal with a situation with any grace, any poise, any restraint? A mod is supposed to be a mediator, a mod is supposed to end arguments quickly and effectively, a mod is supposed to base game actions on game events, not personal opnion. If you believe yourself to be so deserving of the title of mod, please, act like one, and do not demote yourself to harassment and childish antics for the sake of a game. Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 04:43, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

After further discussion on PM's talk page and viewing the chat files Dean is talking about, I want to say that, while both were acting immature, Dean takes the cake. He's acting like a child. What's more, he is convinced that his reputation on the wiki is ruined because everyone sees him as immature. Yet, he refuses to do the last mature thing he can do in this case; own up to his mistake, apologize, and move on. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 05:05, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry Nova, but I have to agree with Crim. Both have been acting childish, but in PM3 it is Nova who's meant to actually be the better person and help resolve the problem, and he's being the more immature of the two. Fed (talk) 05:08, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Userboxes
Look, a topic not about some map game issue!

So I was cruising around some of the different wikis and I've noticed a pretty common trend; userboxes. Even ones dedicated to seriously compiling information into articles (take the Assassin's Creed Wiki for example) have these things. I think they'd be a pretty fun addition to the wiki, but I don't know if people would be in to this idea. I just want to gauge general interest before I spend time adding this stuff.

Examples: Thoughts/concerns/questions?
 * Assassin's Creed Wiki Userboxes
 * RuneScape Wiki Userboxes
 * Wookieepedia Userboxes
 * Harry Potter Wiki Userboxes

CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 23:48, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

I honestly don't see how they contribute in any way other than cluttering up user profiles.Oerwinde (talk) 09:38, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

I've made some Wiki specific ones here. As for cluttering up a profile, you can set them to hide in a collapsible list. Mscoree (talk) 11:38, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Eh, the general lack of interest for or against userboxes indicates that userboxes wouldn't really be a big thing. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 15:38, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

Josiah.cervo and sockpuppets
About a week ago I blocked a user by the name of Josiah.cervo for duplication violations. But just today I noticed another user doing similar uploads and working on the same articles as Josiah.cervo. This user, AmericaLoove, is clearly a sockpuppet (he didn't even bother changing his avatar). I have no idea how he circumnavigated his block, but he's not been blocked longer. I permanently blocked his first account and block his new one for two weeks. -- 18:25, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

He should seem to get the message. Although you may have been too kind on him - usually this thing could get him permablocked on two accounts. However, we will let him return and explain his cause as well as apologise for doing so. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:17, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Saturn120
OK, here is the issue: Saturn has been trying to undo my edits in a map game called the Steam Age. Dont believe me, then check this out: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Steam_Age_%28Map_Game%29?action=history. Thank you for your cooperation, and please perma-ban him if this continues. Ratc3333 Here, Prepare for Combat (talk) 02:01, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

This is probably some sort of misunderstanding and you should of just asked him instead of redoing it over and over, preferably on the game talk page, not here. Regardless not really a TSPTF matter, and definitely not grounds for a permanent ban. (You posted this twice so I removed one instance.) Mscoree (talk) 02:21, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, this is something the mods of that game should have been informed of and dealt with. Lordganon (talk) 11:31, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

'''Ract, I haven't played the steam age in days I think I did that once and it was my first day on the wiki. I apologize for my actions and ask the mods to do whatever they think is best for me.''' Saturn120 (talk) 12:07, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

ratc you seriously complain about this kind of menial thing and ask for perma ban this is soething for the game mods lmao XD Nkbeeching (talk) 12:34, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ratc3333
Ok, recently, on chat, I mentioned my game, Spread of Communism Revised, after Rat asked me to prove that I had actually done anything except "flabber" on the wiki.

He asked me to revive it, but I refused. I noted that firstly, with the map gamers all focused on PM, it would die soon, and in any case, I did not wish to yet. I have, note, created a page for when it eventually will be restarted, but this will be months or possibly years away. Here it is.

Now, despite my repeated requests for him NOT to make a page, he refused and instead created a page of virtually the same name.

At this point, I have to appeal to the TSPTF. That game was my intellectual property, made after the self destruction of the first SOC, and with the approval of some of the mods of that game (ie the active ones).

Rat has made this game despite repeated requests from myself and another player of that game, Nk.

What's more, he has a reputation for making what are, quite honestly, bad, short lived games that are relentlessly ASB. This is an affront to the memory of SOCr.

As a result, I have to ask that his page be deleted and some warning or punishment be placed upon him for this violation of copyright.

23:39, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, Imp leaned on him, and he has changed the name and the content. However, I would like still a warning of some sort. This is like if someone were to make a "Superpowers II" or a "1983: Judgement Day" with basically the same content.

23:45, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

The wiki has rules on the sort of thing. Although you can be inspired by someone else's timeline or map game, it should not be a copy or a play on the words of the original. Just a note to all. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:15, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal
46.248.72.46. Mscoree (talk) 04:35, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Scarlet Outlaw
outlaw keeping insulting spartian300 and spartian is tring to calm down but outalw keeps insulting him The Royal Tank (talk) 20:33, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Nvrmind i goot spartian and outlaw to stop their feud The Royal Tank (talk) 20:43, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Spartian's and Scarlet's feud has been going on for a while. I don't think we can ignore it anymore. Please see the picture below

Here's what was stated prior to the screenshot: This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 20:50, March 8, 2014 (UTC) Sorry about my lagunge i was getting annoyed by the feud The Royal Tank (talk) 20:54, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * S partian300 <span class="message me-message" style="white-space:pre-line;color:rgb(156,156,156);">
 * Spartian300 evaporates into scar's mom
 * hehehe
 * im your brother now scar
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:27 Saturn120 <span class="message me-message" style="white-space:pre-line;color:rgb(156,156,156);">
 * Saturn120 punches your mom to make you cry
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:28 Spartian300 <span class="message me-message" style="white-space:pre-line;color:rgb(156,156,156);">
 * Spartian300 tears saturn apart
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:28 Scarlet Outlaw WTF SPARTIAN STOP YOU FUCKEN PIECE OF SHIT YOU ASSHOLE MOTHER FUCKER ASSHOLE
 * GO FUCKEN DIE
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:28 Saturn120 <span class="message me-message" style="white-space:pre-line;color:rgb(156,156,156);">
 * Saturn120 is a ghost
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:28 Spartian300 <span class="message me-message" style="white-space:pre-line;color:rgb(156,156,156);">
 * Spartian300 is amazed that scar is able to talk in caps
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:28 Scarlet Outlaw YES I AM YOU ASSHOLE
 * Welcome to the Alternative History chat
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 Scarlet Outlaw hi ugly what a wonderful day it is
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 Spartian300 <span class="message me-message" style="white-space:pre-line;color:rgb(156,156,156);">
 * Spartian300 calculates that he will eventually turn into a god
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 UglyTurtle Scarlet and Spartian are you serious?
 * How long are you two going to go on like this?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 Spartian300 it's just something we do now
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 UglyTurtle You two are acting like children.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 Scarlet Outlaw Spartian you will die after I rape you and I hear your fucking screaming
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 Spartian300 UNTIL NOW!
 * Saturn120 has left the chat.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 SkyGreen24 about half an hour
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:29 Spartian300 truce scar?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:30 The Royal Tank ot stop
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:30 Spartian300 a peace treaty to end this feud
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:30 The Royal Tank both of u fucking quit it right fucking now

Spatin started the feud not outlaw The Royal Tank (talk) 21:03, March 8, 2014 (UTC)





Also Spartain also started this feud if you look above I'm also sorry for any involvement in the feud Saturn120 (talk) 21:01, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously. Spartian, I have already banned you once for misbehaving within the community. Do you not understand we tend to show users some respect here? And Scarlet, seriously - be the mature one here. You deteriorated to a low level too, and this is just not on. If I hear or see any one of you two ever do such a thing again - it will be a ban, good sirs. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:10, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Spartain300
Spartain did something to the talk page on The Steam Age Map game. I can't edit it or anything. Spartain already got a temporary ban on the steam age. So I think that the mods should step up and do something. Saturn120 (talk) 15:17, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

Bring that up to the map game talkpage and the mods, not to the TSPTF talkpage, thank you. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:11, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Appealing to the higher powers
The following conversation has been copied from Lordganon's talk page on the request of Imp.

LG, Fed and I have gotten into a bit of a rough over PMIII. Took place in chat. Well, I called the mods retarded (they are, honest), and Fed got offended over it being Fed. He whined about the issue and abused his mod powers for what I would like to assume were personal reasons, and made the threat he would ban me from chat for a day (which he did) if I insulted the mods over their actions (not an uncommon thing on chat). Well, being me, I continued with my fight over the plausibility of my actions and the lack of rules that the mods said existed (but where never explained to the players), as Fed continued to complain about my nation's expansion rates, and I called Fed out on the hypocrisy of the PMIII mods, to which Fed said he'd "let slip". Well, it ends with me stating that Fed is a prime example of why you don't give administrative powers to a 15-year old who hasn't matured emotionally yet, and Fed banning me from chat to nurse his hurt feelings. Anyway, I'm seeking a removal of the ban and some kind of limit to Fed's powers until he has learned to grow-up (emotionally that is), and build a bridge of some sort (if you know what I mean). I won't be surprised if Fed appears and whines about how I didn't tell the whole story, but here it is. I would present screenshots (which Fed threatened to take *rolls eyes*), but I closed the chat window by mistake. Oh wells. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:55, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I believe the complaining and the awfully patronising attitute are enough proof of why I banned him from chat. He was acting quite smugly, offending people by calling them "retarded and immature", and threatened me with asking you and wikia to remove my adminship (which, apparently, he did). I DO have screenshots, as Viva claims, which I'll be glad to present to you.

I'm sorry for the image-spam, but I don't take lightly to people calling me retarded and threatening to impeach me. I also apologise in advance for the rude behaviour I might've had without properly noticing because of my anger.

Furthermore, if this is not enough proof, please go ahead and ask anyone on chat at the time (such as MP, Guns, Swanky, Feud, Bfox...) and see their opinions on this. Only Swanky and Feud have said he is on my favour, so I believe this is an unbiased enough list. Fed (talk) 01:10, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

As an univolved observer in this argument, I can say that lately Viva has been very aggressive in this matter. On chat if you ask about his nation he tends to insult you or call you names, and it seems to have gotten out of hand. I've seen Fed have to warn Viva many times to calm down. Anyway, I hope that testimonial helps you make a decision. With everything that is being said I thought I'd help clear it up a bit. Mscoree (talk) 01:14, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Mscoree, please tell the whole truth. if you ask about my nation, I respond politely. When you get aggressive over it, ignore my explainations, and then call me ASB because you can't accept the truth, then I become aggressive. You always act as if I'm the first to go hot when I'm not. I've never used profanities directed toward other users, nor have I ganged up on them to stroke my ego. if anything, I've tried to be as calm and polite as possible until Fed begins shouting threats over infractions he thinks are directed at him. If anything, Fed has abused his power because he can't get over anything, and believes himself to be the moral authority in chat. Look at Guns, Scraw, and Fed, the first to attack me, the first to complain, and the first to react aggressively when I've done nothing by try to answer everyone's questions. Also, I think it's funy that Fed states I was being smug when he himself was gloating about how he has the "right" to the final say, and when I refused to bow to his authority, sought reasons to ban me, claiming that my statments, having nothing to do with him or even offensive but criticism of the mods' ineffectiveness, as "offensive".

I've been called names on numerous occassions, yet I've never acted angrily until I'm attacked personally, and when others refuse to listen to anything I've said while still claiming to be right no matter how much information I give them regarding my actions. My anger comes from being ignored, called ASB, and pushed around by a administrator who claims to know more about a continent I've studied since I was a child, and then demand I get over an insult he's issued while he in turn whines when he claims to have been insulted himself. Thus, Fed is ignorant and ill-informed. He consistantly states that I haven't done things in game when there are clear as day in the posts, yet he is too lazy (fact) to look for them and read them. He won't read any of the information I've given him about the region I'm playing in, and calls my actions ASB when the proof I give him from people who professionally research the regions, prove otherwise.

When I called the mods retarded, I was justified. The mods, like Fed, refuse to read any of the information I provide to them, and I find myself having to repeat my statements over and over again to get the point through, yet it doesn't stick with them. Guns, Ms, and Scraw continously state that I couldn't reach Angola in canoes (a word they put much emphasize on during arguments), ignorant of the fact that African war canoes were as big and as deep as Viking longships, and held up to 120 men. Then extends to other games as well. When I played as Congo, they mods (chiefly Scraw, Fed, and Yank) refused to accept that OTL Congo was the second-most industrialized nation in Africa in the 1960s, I even provided the links. They also refused to accept that Congo could industrialize using the $24 trillion dollars of minerals within their land (link also provided). How do you deal with a mod that is ignorant of the very timeline they're suppose to be moderating if they won't even do or accept the research given them by the players? This is what I'm face with every time I play as an African nation.

The mods who claim I start all of the arguments with them are the very same mods I have had to argue with since I got here. Whenever I call them out on their lack of information, failure to accept the facts, and their blatant hypocrisy, such as when Crimson and Scraw stated that one of my colonies wasn't at risk of a life-or-death invasion (removing a massive motive bonus for me), and attacked it anyway and conquered it, they try to shut me down and villify me. They even named implausible empires in games "Vivempires" to further slander my name. In all, the mods won't act like mods. They say they would alternate history, yet they demand actual history unless it is opposed to their goals. Once they even said OTL didn't count, but when I used ATL, they said OTL did count (this was with Turkey). So yeah, I'm owning it. The mods are retarded, ignorant, arrogant, hypocrits, and liars. I've made my point on this matter clear enough already and close my argument. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:28, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

^That's why I banned him from chat, and in my opinion if the incredibly large amounts of patronisation and insults he threw do not qualify as 'harassing' I don't know what does. He's called us retarded, ignorant, lazy and other stuff you can read on the screenshots. I gave him plenty of chances to stop both ad-hominem attacks, but he just continued, calling me childish, immature, and threatening to start an impeachment process. In fact, I kicked him five times between yesterday and today before banning; not a single time did anyone but Viva consider it unfair. I believe I gave him ample oportunity, and he continued to act badly. When things didn't go his way, he brought it up to you. Honestly, I've seen people wikibanned for less. Fed (talk) 05:20, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

I don't want to have an argument on someone's talk page like this, but to Viva, I didn't say a single thing in that chat, nor did I once say or refuse any of the things he claimed. There is no excuse to call some retarded, that is offensive no matter what. Then you call us ignorant and ill-informed, right before blaming me randomly for statements I never said, just like how on the PM3 talk page you attacked Scraw for things said by Guns. I have never once mentioned the ability to reach Angola, nor any other points here. I think Viva confuses me for someone else. Mscoree (talk) 10:39, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

LG is offline. You want this sorted? Move it to either my talkpage or the TSPTF talkpage. Let LG handle IRL problems and not compound him with map game problems. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:55, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

'''Moved this discussion to TSPTF talk page. ''' Mscoree (talk) 14:13, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Fed, you have no claim to harrassment, as you only jumped in when you saw something you didn't like. If anything your screenshots only show that you made the first threats and came after me, when you weren't even mentioned once. If anything, I have the greatest claim to harrassment. I was called "little shit" by Scraw (and a host of other things by the man/boy/whatever he is on the other side on chat for months), and I don't take kindly to being called that by anyone). No one else considered unfair because said people didn't even consider what I said insulting save you. Only you whined about it while the others made jokes and watched. Honestly, I seen admins (a host of them) stripped of their power for nonsense like yours. And I've never seen anyone banned frmo a wiki for getting mad at mods/admins/figures of authority since thats what chat's for. Rather the look and find out what you did wrong, you hide behind criticism of your actions to hide from the truth. You told things about Africa which were clearly false, and when I corrected them with the proper information, rather than accept the correction, you ignored it, and said that your way is right no matter what. Simply put Fed, when I threw the stone, you were the only one who started barking.

And Mscoree, you I can understand. If my statement wasn't directed at you, don't get offended. I don't believe in kindness, and until there's a rule about it (and there isn't here or on Wikia as a whole) I have a right to criticise the mods for their arrogance and ignorance. You weren't even a thought (no offense), so you throwing yourself into the argument because you thought I was talking about you even though nowhere did I mention, has only exasperated the issue rather than solve it. My statement was directed toward people such as Scraw and Sine, who actions have been ignorant. If will direct your attention to the Webster's Dictionary, the word ignorant means "lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated." So If your aren't uneducated or unsophisticated, don't get offended. You speak a language 99% of the world has forgotten, and you speak it well, so clearly you aren't uneducated or unsophisticated for that matter. I never said "and Ms is why I've been called ASB", so I wasn't talking about YOU.

Perhaps I should clarify. People such as Scraw, Rex (who's brought the issue up a thousand times to annoy me), Sine, and Fed are the ones whom I've been speaking of. They clearly are ill-informed of medieval Africa, and has consistently ignored anything I've stated to them. For example, I've told them all what the capabilities of the West African kingdoms were, yet they have ignored me over and over again, and continue to call my nation a "tribe", the most ignorant and arrogant insult I can imagine, since it shows that they have no idea of what a tribe, particular one in Africa is. Most informed people will tell you that a tribe is an ethnic group from Africa and the politically correct term being the latter. Also, the statement that Oyo is just a tribe is more of their saying Oyo isn't a sophisticated nation-state, but a decentralized and backwards collection of families (the proper usage of the term tribe), lending weight to their argument that Oyo cannot advance or convert. This is the greatest sign of ignorance I've seen. The mods (Since, Fed, and Scraw who isn't even a mod), have tried to tell me that I'm wrong about a region I've researched for years before the game, and can't find the courage to admit that they were wrong with I tell them the truth.

In the end, only someone who is ignorant and ill-informed (doesn't know, and I honestly don't see why Fed is whining over "ill-informed") says something like what they did. Only someone who is arrogant (like Fed and Scraw) won't admit that they are wrong when they clearly are. In general disscussion, we would call said people retarded. A person who is dense, refuses to accept information or correction, aggressive, and boorish (in that they curse up a storm to get their point across when they could have done so civilly). I've done none of those things. When I'm wrong, I apologize and accept the correction. Scraw and Fed have done none of those things, and whine when they are confronted with it. Look through all of our arguments from the past to the present, and you'll see that only the mods have started an argument when they didn't get their way, or better yet, claimed I started it when they couldn't win. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:44, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Apparently it seems to me as if Viva has come back with a cooler head and explained to Fed his point sanely. However, the way everyone was behaving - guys, what are you seriously doing. If I had the power to do so, all of you would have either been kicked or blocked from chat and allowed for some time to think about your actions. Why is a map game issue coming onto the TSPTF talkpage, again?

Viva, if you want to disprove people, give them sources and links to Wikipedia articles. When you want to show people your posts and what they have in them, either tell them to search up certain words on the page or make a list of all your posts in question, make it into a picture and post it. It would be miles better than having text-walls and accusations. You better thank your lucky stars - all of you - that it is me responding and not LG. I have had absolutely enough with the childish arguing - and if Viva would like to prove that Fed is childish and should not have the level of power that he does - then do not come back and begin arguing using big words but in an equally childish fashion.

Either bury the hatchet or I will be forced to take action. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:25, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

I'm 99% sure that Feddy outranks you, Impo.

21:08, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

They're both admins Guns, and Imp has contributed considerably more to the wiki than Fed, lending some weight to his words. So Imp's word is just as good as Fed's as far as I see it.

Imp, I have, several times, but these links are often ignored. On the point of childish arguments, I've already extended an apology to Fed (I was sleepy and cranky over an impending personal issue), so if Fed is willing to bury the hatchet, he is more than welcome to accept my invitation to do so. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:12, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Could you please stop using my name. I have said none of the things which you claim I have said. In fact, all I said is that Oyo should not have become Christian and you resolved that by changing it to Islam.

21:16, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

I've already stated that I'm sorry for what I said (though some things the mods do are indeed strange and biased), but I've stopped using your name (though you did call me a "little s***" and were the source of many arguments in the past). Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:21, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

I've contributed more than Feddy too!

Not sure if that really helps, but...

21:25, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

A cranky head is never good. And Guns, c'mon man - look before you leap.

Oyo could side with either religion, it really does not depend - in fact Christianity has been around longer. Viva, you need to listen to other players and their points too. I have heard their points, and most are valid. However, Oyo should not expand at such a rapid rate - there are various tribes around you and various peoples who do not even speak the same language as you. Please, any further discussion should be on the PMIII talkpage. Other than that, this section is closed. Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:03, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Umm what.

A) Don't have a cracky head. My head is perfectly normal. It's my mind that's cracked :D

B) I do have more edits though! 6300 to 7100!

22:49, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, the "cranky" part was for Viva. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:06, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Not hard to see where the fault/problem lies here. Fed, well done.

Viva, you're incorrect overall. Simple.

As stated on that talk page: Quit being an ass. Final warning.

Lordganon (talk) 13:31, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

A vandalism in this page
I think that was a combination of both vandalism and spam by a vandal that claim himself from a such ridiculous organization. Probably he is insane and I advise the admin to ban him from this wiki because he is un-productive and has no any interest on Alternate History.

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF?diff=942542&oldid=942513

FirstStooge (talk) 03:47, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

No reason to ban someone, imo. Lordganon (talk) 13:28, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

That was not vandalism at all. Several members of his order came on here. Mscoree (talk) 14:07, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

They all share names (Clansman White, Clansman Black, Clansman Brown, etc), which really does raise eyebrows concerning sockpuppetry. However, it may be prudent to actually check. Don't want to ban anybody on a whim here. They do seem to be new users, though, so we could let him keep ONE account and warn him how intolerant we are of sockpuppetry and other arcane arts. CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 14:22, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

My apologies, good people of the wiki. I merely wished to clarify any confusion regarding our presence, and my request still remains. May we ask from my liege, brave lord, of the House Ganon, to whom we pledge our swords to, our fealty and our honor, for the defense of your great realm, so that all may write in peace, to please accept our kind and humble offering in your name. We merely request a home to quarter our men; a page on which to write. Whether it be user or not, personal or impersonal, give us space to garrison, my lord. For your aid we shall do our best to serve as you request. Thank you, my lord. Clansman White (talk) 22:32, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

Well, just saying, from his post, it's not like they are some sort of KKK fanatics, and even if they are, we do have a number of such on this wiki itself.

22:38, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

Can't be sockpuppets if they're all on chat at once, imo.

White, have fun on here.

Lordganon (talk) 10:42, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

I doubt that they are- they all posted pretty quickly, not like they were switching browsers between it.

22:12, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

Ratc and Sockpuppets
I've been following a lead for a few days; a new user named BattleStriker99 and Ratc3333 bear numerous similarities. In the meantime, Ratc seems to have disappeared the instant this guy shows up, raising a bit of suspicion. Nevertheless, I refused to act on a hunch. Upon further investigation, I not only noticed that BattleStriker acts EXACTLY like ratc, but he started talking about things I did last year when this guy joined in March 2014. I am completely convinced that these two are sockpuppets.

For this reason, Ratc and Battle have been banned. This is my first banhammer use and I was really careful in making sure I was right, but if anybody has any concerns about methods, please raise them now. I'm super scared of mucking this up lol.

CrimsonAssassin- I have special eyes 01:12, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

Might want to hear their side of the story first. I know they said they were friends, so maybe they had the same IP from editing in the same place, like at their school. I'd give them access to their talk page so they can at least respond. Knowing Ratc he might just flip out on you, in which case that ends that. Mscoree (talk) 01:15, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

Crim, looks to me like you're right.

As for that idea, MS, if they have a complaint to make, they can complain on other wikis. Crim has several others listed that he can be found at, as do many of us.

Lordganon (talk) 08:12, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

According to Battle, when I asked him about this a few days ago, they're friends, but they use the same computer at Rat's house. Seems quite suspicious to me that Battle can log in at Rat's house every day at the same time, and that he doesn't log in any where else, that he picks up Rat's projects exactly where Rat left them off, and that he seems to know things about this wiki- especially chat wise- that he wouldn't if he were an actually newbie, Ms.

20:58, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

I believe that this is enough evidence for warranting a ban. It had definitely been suspicious behaviour and more than once I was asked by other users to check if he was a sockpuppet.

Ms, if you think it is necessary, I believe an IP check might be in order (if one hasn't been done already); but Crim has, IMO, conclusive proof. Fed (talk) 21:19, March 18, 2014 (UTC

Crim told me he had asked Wikia- I presume this comes after that, too.

21:22, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

Alright fair enough. I believe what Crim is saying is true, just figured we'd give him a fair chance. Looks like the evidence is pretty clear regardless. Mscoree (talk) 21:33, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

Ratc has a history of this type of stuff, and he was hinting that he wanted to start over to abandon what he's known for. <font color="#29AB87">Bow To Your Sensei. <font color="#002366">BOW TO YOUR SENSEI!!!

Not that he did a very good job of that- they both advertised a LOT.

22:24, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

When he came around, I asked Battle if he was Ratc under a new username, and he was like "no we're friends. we had a falling out." I think the sheer illogic of that confirmed my suspicions that it was actually Ratc. Plus Battle had the exact same tendency to PM you on chat 800 times in a row advertising whatever game. Also the extreme use of caps and exclamation points and crazy rude demeanor pretty much pointed to Battle and Ratc being the same person. Cookiedamage (talk) 02:48, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

I have been asked by Bratc to ask you if one of his accounts unblocked. Local Mafia Boss (Talk) (Blog) (He won't stop bugging me on Map Game Wiki)

I recommend banning him. It's what I did when he bugged me on BFE wiki.

23:20, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Local, if ratc is harassing you about this, please tell the administrators of that wiki. I have no jurisdiction in that cesspool wiki. CrimsonAssassin- gib clay

What rat did was not sockpuppeting, because he just wanted a fresh start, and rat dissapeerd for those further compelling those arguments. I am officially calling for this to be handled like numerous other non map game second account incidents. He should be given the standard 2 week ban plus 1 more for him knowing the rules so well.

The Attorney of Señor Ratc333

<font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

He should at least get a one month ban because what he did he knew was wrong, but wanted to refresh his reputation. I can agree because many people are not playing other map games because PMIII is so popular. So for the record at least a one month ban. Saturn120  00:36, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately it's basically wikia-wide policy that sockpuppeting warrants a permanent ban (or one of an incredibly long amount of time). Mscoree (talk) 00:41, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Ms, I have seen multiple times where second accounts go into a two week ban, Second Ract did not sock puppet, he merely made a second acount. <font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

The, ah, definition of sockpuppeting is making multiple accounts.

"He didn't commit murder! He just shot that guy in the head till he died!"

21:26, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Evidence to support my client,

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:TSPTF#Josiah.cervo_and_sockpuppets

<font color=Purple face="Algerian">OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

He sockpuppeted. Permanent block. End of discussion.

Different issues in that one, OM. Trying to get around a block with a second account is different from sockpuppeting.

Lordganon (talk) 12:22, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

I have been known to be a close associate, and oft-time confidant of Ratc. Battlestriker has told me, after I confronted him, that he was in fact Ratc. I apologize for not bringing this up (I actually did over chat, just not on the TSPTF page as I should've), but you have my word. Thanks, 06:50, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what happened before. But, Ratc's latest spam is dragging me over this discussion. Thanks for Fed to delete his spam. Ratc is an imbecile, stupid, ignoramous vandal! He should never allowed again to join this wiki forever! What a childish mustard is him! There will be no defense for him! I hope Ratc choked when he is eating his cereal!

FirstStooge (talk) 03:19, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Wow.

03:27, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Editing issues
Hi. Any ideas why I can only edit in source mode? Any time, any article, no other option given... It's frustrating, I hate coding. Regards, --David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 19:27, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

I seem to be able to edit in visual mode. Usually it only forces you into source mode if you are editing something with complex code, so that is very odd. Mscoree (talk) 19:29, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

Like I keep saying, anything like that, chalk it up to wiki screwing around, and then try a few hours later.

DR, problem gone, or still there?

Lordganon (talk) 12:23, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, still here. Sorry, real life prevented me from replying for a while. It's been a few months now, I only thought to mention when I started to get wound up about it _ I have quite a bit of patience. --David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 15:35, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Odd, that. Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that for some reason, one of your preferences got switched. Would not be the most shocking thing I can think of for one of times they were messing around something got flipped.

Past that, a browser switch.

Lordganon (talk) 11:20, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Viva
So that no one can claim that I'm "hiding" something.

Never thought I would have to do this, but I've been forced to block someone from here after a warning. Not the first one that has been warned, but sure as heck the first to violate the warning.

Gave Viva a warning a bit ago over being an ass to the players on PMIII. He failed to follow it, so I gave him another one, noting that it was a "final warning" and what would happen if he did it again. He listened at that point.

So, imagine my surprise today when I look at the discussion on that talk page today - it is one I check, fyi - and see more of the same from him.

Don't know if he thought his position gave him immunity from warnings/blocking, forgot, or whatever. Either way, not good.

He even insulted myself and Fed in the process of the posts he made in the last day.

So, I gave him a day to think about it.

We cannot have any members of the TSPTF acting like that, especially after public warnings given to them.

About the only option I have past this point, is bringing it up here for a group discussion. Which I would rather not do, but will do if forced. Hopefully the day smartens him up about it a smidgen.

Lordganon (talk) 12:04, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

But Viva's infallible. If he said these things, they MUST be true.

Heh, good call, LG. CrimsonAssassin- gib clay 20:17, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

I was thinking of calling up an impeachment if his behaviour continues this way, so I'm glad someone else thinks this way. I believed it was just my biased, since I was one of the conflicting parties. Fed (talk) 02:12, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

This is a difficult issue, I believe. He is a TSPTF member, and as such ought to act with a great degree of honor and duty. However, he clearly would rather put his African-wanks ahead of his duty and coolheadedness. With that in mind, I would suggest a temporary suspension of TSPTF powers, followed by a four month-long probationary period.

Of course, this is probably more of an internal TSPTF issue, but I would just like to let you know my thoughts, because Viva has before insulted and offended me and I thought that the star next to his name gave him some immunity which prevented me from speaking against him, under the threat of a kick or ban. Thank you, LG and other mods. 03:18, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Only way to "suspend" him, Rex, is through the impeachment process.

Fed, not just you.

Rex, don't ever let someone's rank dissuade you from complaining to myself or another person about them if you think they are acting out of line or abusing their powers. Remember, Constables can only kick/block from chat - they have no similar authority on the wiki itself.

Being part of the group doesn't give someone immunity, though if above constable, it does make action much harder. Constables I can do a "smarten up" reminder with like this one. Anyone higher, and they can just unblock themselves, so the only approach is bringing it to the group. And that is a lot more effort, which would undoubtedly cost support.

Glad to have some backup here. Hopefully I don't have to use it.

Lordganon (talk) 12:18, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

User:Edboy452
Ed seemed to have gone into a drunk rage and began posting stuff in his wall, some of which seemed offensive to some users (including me and LG). I have banned him for a month, but this is open to review. Fed (talk) 02:42, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Month is good, considering both the content, and that image. Lordganon (talk) 14:54, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

On second thought, looking at things, looks like he made that "WhenMidwestCityCrumbles" account right after the block. Now have to wonder if him and rat are the same person, lol. Extended to three months. Lordganon (talk) 14:57, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Well you don't know that was him...

20:42, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

If a user uploads one offensive image, gets blocked, and then within minutes another account registers and uploads more or less the same image, it's the same guy. Lordganon (talk) 11:31, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

I'll talk to god Bran to be on the safe side. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:38, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks God as there will be no such man like Ratc and Ed never exist again on this wiki anymore. FirstStooge (talk) 11:46, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Umm, Stooge, LG was joking. Ed != Ratc.

22:05, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Not really, Guns. Lordganon (talk) 11:21, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

You actually think that Ed and Rat were the same?

Umm, what?

20:59, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Question
Is it actually a rule that admins and above may not have complex sigs, like lightsabers or boxes?

Or is it a joking one, like that all Brass must have edited 83DD?

00:02, April 3, 2014 (UTC)