User talk:SouthWriter/sandbox/An atheist's objections/@comment-1777104-20100706033648

Fegaxeyl 21:13, July 5, 2010


 * The statement in itself 'God did it' is, logically, simpler. But ...


 * SW: Well, Feg, you started out well! The second sentence, though, goes against the truth of the first statement. The LOGIC rules the argument. When we start "thinking about it" we put ourselves above logic and become "illogical."


 * ...when you think about it, it is actually incredibly complex: God, a non-determined and omnipotent entity of undefined boundaries and limitless capabilities... lots of unknowns there.

What I mean by 'simple' is that it is the result of provable, predictable laws, which will hold true regardless. The idea in and of itself that, over billennia atoms have arranged themselves in such a way to produce us, seems incredibly complex... but, once you know the calculations, you can trace the entire history of the universe using simple laws which will hold true in all but a tiny handful of situations (the singularity of a black hole, for example). Granted, we don't know many of these equations, and have no way of factoring in all the variables at present - but once we know all this we could do the whole thing using (for mathematicians) simple equations that hold true.


 * And so, our great minds over-rule logic.  Everything has a cause, but the first cause is so beyond our understanding that we assume it was a "simple" explosion with sub-atomic particles "arranging themselves" over incredibly long periods based on the properties that they "happen" to have after being blown to smitherines!  And it will all come clear to us when we become so incredibly complex that we can "do it ourselves" when it all runs down (the second "law" of thermodynamics).


 * Scientists find the idea of it being 'just so' ridiculous. That is not simple. ...


 * It is not a "just so story" to proclaim that someone did something, when the evidence points to the fact that it has been done. You are building your argument on the unknowable to deny the unknown.  That is not good debate.


 * [God] violates all of what we know of the laws of the universe and is subsequently impossible.


 * It defies logic to deny the unknown because it is unknowable. When the unknown is revealed to us, and we deny it because we don't understand it, then we are willingly ignorant and cannot be good "scientists" (seekers of knowledge).
 * A small example of a "law" of nature - Life begets life. Simple, and profound at the same time.  No one can point to a single instance in which nonliving matter has come to life on its own.  But, to an evolutionist that "law" was once non-existent.  What changed the law?  Or is there a law behind it, a principle that we just don't know yet?  There must be, says the "non-creationist," for we have life now.  Circular reasoning does not win a debate.


 * Science can change a lot. Religion, at least in terms of the original dogma (in this case, Genesis), doesn't.


 * An extraordinary admission, though somewhat skewed. "Original dogma" is a somewhat biased way of saying "abolute truth."  Some things are undeniable, even if they are not understood.  "In the beginning, God..." is one of those undeniable truths.  Of course, we can suppose all we want that God does not exist, but that does not change that absolute truth.
 * Science, as you surely know, is another way of saying "what we know." If we can't know something with our human senses or artificial measuring devices, then it can't be part of our "science."  But that does not change the fact that it is real and so very true.   But the human mind is not measurable, and it "knows things that are not measurable."  It exists in billions of people at present and in billions of people in the past.  Millions of those people have left evidence that they existed -- buildings they built, writings they wrote, works of art they made from their imaginations.  We do not know them personally, because they have died, but we know they existed.
 * In like manner, we can know God because He has made things, and those things still exist. But more importantly, we can know Him because He is still alive!  It is the most absolutely true thing in this vast universe.  But many of us stubbornly will hold on to our own "superiority complex" and think that we know more than the One who put it all together.  And that is the hard truth that NONE of us can get past on our own.  Thankfully, God has sought to talk to us if we will just listen.