User talk:Yankovic270/Archive 3

Re: G8 (9)
If you swapped out East Prussia and Siberia for Ireland and Turkey, that'd look about right. On that same note, since Persia is a major economic hub, they could possibly be part of a G9... which could balance te NATO/CIC imbalance within the group (since Turkey, Alaska and Oceania are all NATO countries and that would give France Persia and Ireland as its CIC allies within the group).

The reason I take out East Prussia is twofold - first, unlike Denmark (which has all those Norwegian oil reserves), it is much more reliant upon the continental French economy than many other CIC states. It also isn't particularly large. The second reason is that the region occupied by East Prussia is not a tradtionally industrial sector of Germany or Poland - if there was an independent state based in western Germany, that would of course be different. The cessation of most of Prussia to Poland following WWII in OTL had the adverse affect of denying Germany access to most of their traditional farmland, after all.

The reason I take out Siberia is that despite vast natural gas reserves, its sparsely populated, has a history of political instability and just isn't as worthy of a position on the G8 as world power Turkey or economically sound Ireland, which fulfills the OTL role of the UK in the British Isles and in the CIC.

KingSweden 16:29, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Pampini/Your Other Question
I don't know much French, so I'm not sure what they would have been named... :/

On top of that, why would allies to the deposed Edmond Bonaparte/Francois Baptiste regime, members of whom had been in De Gaulle's Churat, assassinate Hitler and Pampini? Hitler was an artist whom I initially had be killed because when I first started the TL (and wanted to make sure nobody screwed around with Hitler), Sebastien was a lot more tyrannical than he wound up being once I figured some things out. NW is eternally a work in progress, after all. Why would former Edmondian spies want to kill harmless old Hitler, of all people?

As for Pampini, Sebastien would probably have felt a lot more threatened by him than the survivors of the Edmond regime. Pampini was, after all, advocating for a unified Italian state that would have included territory Sebastien had forcibly annexed to punish the northern Italian republics during the French Civil War's Italian Campaign, and was trying to outmaneuver Sebastien's ally the pope for local power in the Papal States. If an ODESSA-like organization were to have existed (and I do think that's a terrific idea, by the way), I doubt Hitler would have been their first and foremost target, and Pampini even less so. I'll write an article on the Guttendorp Commission sometime today, I've been meaning to for a while.

As for your other comment, my writing style sort of just takes me places. Some days I want to write about college football (I eat, sleep and breath it), somedays I want to write about James Bond, and some days I want to write about the Italian Mafia. It all really depends and its a blessing and a curse, it's why I can't ever get my friggen' books done haha. HOWEVER, that being said, nation pages are usually fair game for other editors to make additions to, if anything diverges from canon I usually touch them up or tweak things to not be an edit Nazi, and you're always really good about proposing ideas first or writing things that aren't super loopy. I had some trouble with another editor for awhile (won't use any names) who would assign pictures to people that were about 100 years off or so and get into edit wars and tell me how to run my timeline and then claim that he "did a lot for me" when most of my time interacting with him was cleaning his messes up off of my TL (specifically, pictures...). Whew. Got that out of the way. But you've always been an asset to the TL, so if you see stuff you want to add to, go on ahead. I'll tweak anything I'm angsty about as usual when I get around to it, at my own pace.

KingSweden 18:28, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Macau
Who's telling anyone what to do? Kenny was given a very limited range of permission by Arstar to edit the article, and he is trying to go further. As per his request, I'm not letting Kenny do it. Lordganon 19:32, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

As I said, Yank, I'm following Arstar's instructions - not being obnoxious, in the least. And until he says otherwise, I will continue to do so. Since you seem to have read Kenny's post and got that, know that he hasn't read a thing correctly. This is what Arstar actually told him:

Sorry Kenny, but I'd appreciate it if you would NOT change the size of Macau and only work on the economics and other asthetic changes. Arstar 21:05, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

What he is trying to do is not in line with his permissions. And, going by what South has responded to this trash with, he agrees with that, as of when of early this morning.

Lordganon 00:31, June 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Yank, for jumping in with some sanity here. LG has been going on and on about what amounts to nothing. It is not a violation of the permission because it is not in anyway changing the size of the nation. He made plenty of improvements on the article since March, only recently seeking permission to change the capital. That in itself could be part of the 'economics' since it was deemed necessary due to a collapse of the economy on the island. And hey, if the island was contaminated, then that would be an aesthetic change, wouldn't it.


 * LG, I am going to have to side with Kenny and Yank on this one. And yes, LG, you behavior on this is indeed obnoxious, even if you don't consider it to be. The offense is hardly ever percieved by the offender. I can't change you, but I can ask you again to tone it down, man. You are just one editor, and only one administrator. This is not your personal 'kingdom' that allows you to run roughshod over others. Consider how you would feel if you were attacked verbally as you have been attacking Kenny. SouthWriter 02:01, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Jaguar
Yeah, I like that Good Idea.

KingSweden 23:01, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

U.S Presidents Contest
On the Nexus I have started a U.S Presidents Contest. The Earliest POD can be in the 1944 election.

Are you intrested? Alexanders 23:57, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

States of America 2
Since you aren't playing anymore may I annex your nations? Bobalugee1940 01:28, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Chernobyl/Alaska
Well, yes, I suppose Chernobyl could be an Alaskan plant. Don't overestimate the "anti-Russian" nuclear construction policies of French officials, however. By the time nuclear power became a feasible option (i.e. 1960's and 1970's), the anti-Russian elements of the French government had largely been eradicated (that's the whole point of the French Civil War, and the reason why Sebastien was able to win it).

Also, I'm going to use both of the pics you found for the Premiers of Alaska page. Who in OTL did you use for Sarugin (in case I want to find more pics)?

KingSweden 03:40, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

I swapped around some pics on the Premiers page to make the people look like they lived in the correct time period, but I kept Kalinin just made him appear earlier.

I like Gene Simmons as an actor, but I wouldn't wish the hell that is being Nicolas Cage upon anyone, even my worst enemy. Besides, isn't Simmons in his 60's? I think he's too old.

KingSweden 16:39, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

We've got Richard Gere in Die Hard but yeah, I like Gene Simmons in a variety of films. If he were to be in Ghost Rider, though, it would have made sense for him to have made that movie in the late 1980's or early 1990's (based off of his age, and also because it makes sense in canon with a spate of other late 1980's/early 90's superhero films, such as the first Batman or the Flash movie). Also, maybe Gene Simmons could keep his Jewish name? I looked him up on Wikipedia and his Hebrew name actually sounds pretty cool.

KingSweden 00:39, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ghost Rider/Other Movies
I made a page for what a "good" Ghost Rider would have looked like (I really don't like Nicolas Cage, no offense). I'm also thinking of not making Jake McCoy (the Indiana Jones cognate) English, and making Tom Selleck the actor who plays McCoy instead of Pierce Brosnan. Also, somebody suggested that Han Solo be played by Kurt Russell instead of Chevy Chase... your thoughts?

KingSweden 00:54, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Nova Roma
Hey Yankovic, (can I call you Yank?) I noticed your Nova Roma article and I'm glad more people are taking part in this Atlantic Islands timeline. Anyway, I was wondering where you would like to have your nation of Nova Roma? Originally Alex and I decided on the nations above but I guess if more people want to contribute there will have to be a lot of changes. Anyway, if you like you can save the image and colour the island you wish to have your nation in (unless it's historic.) Thanks! ChrisL123 01:32, July 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's a really good idea actually. Once Alex comes back on the wikia I think we can all discuss nation borders on the talk page, I have a feeling a lot of things are going to change. Happy editing! ChrisL123 02:11, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Multiple Edits
I noticed whenever you make edits on Principia Moderni it's always in groups of 5-7. I don't know whether it's for a badge or you're just too busy, but I ask you to cut it out. I can't always be checking every single edit, and it looks very suspicious. If possible type your turn in a word document or note file and when you're done, copy-paste it in. Thanks! Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 03:36, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

My New Map Game
Hey,

I just started the Imperialist America (Map Game), and I would like some players to help me out and to start it, tell your friends, I tink itll be interesting. DeanSims 15:52, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Hetalia (New Union)
That sounds about right. But I haven't written anything about Belorussia or anything on there yet. That was all another users doing. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:57, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Principia Modern
I would like that, could I still control the Inca's too? DeanSims 14:00, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Apocolypse (Map Game)
Can I be the official Map Maker for this game, I took over te Confederacy, since no one ad signed there name by it and I am also up to date on the game so far, is that alright though, I would like to be a Mod and a Mapmaker, or at least the Map Maker. DeanSims 23:21, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Hawai'i
To answer your question, Hawai'i is an independent kingdom. I adjusted Sanford Dole to fit within the specs you described, I think it was a good suggestion.

KingSweden 03:04, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

19th Century
James Brothers instead of Lehman Brothers. Love it.

KingSweden 05:36, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Novels
I'm gonna finally get around to start working on some of those Napoleon's World novels I've always wanted to do. I was wondering if you had any suggestions what time period/events would make for the most interesting setting?

I had a few ideas, but I wanted to hear from you first.

KingSweden 00:08, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Springer/Mencia
There's some dark, morbid irony in that Springer idea. I like it.

Idk about Mencia. If he died in 2001 (like the intro to him suggests in the Alt Dest page), then he would have been 33 or 34 when he passed (I assume via assassination). As stereotyped as this sound, wouldn't he make a better Centroamerican drug lord assassinated by the U.S. (like Pablo Escobar?). Instead of Colombia or Mexico being the center of the Latin American drug trade, maybe Centroamerica is that place in the late 1990's and early 2000's?

KingSweden 02:51, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Whoops. Didn't see you changed it to make him still alive.

KingSweden 02:52, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Drug lord for sure.

KingSweden 03:38, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

F*** YES. Love it. Nice.

And yeah, I hated that show.

KingSweden 05:10, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Estonia and the ADC
Don't know if you noticed, but looks like the ADC is expanding very soon. Karelia is on record as having applied just after joining the Nordic Union, and Estonia joined it at the same time, so along those same lines, would Estonia apply too? Reasons for it would be just as good as Karelia. Your thoughts? Lordganon 06:04, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Lordganon 19:39, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Estonia would just be applying. The community at large will probably be voting on approval. I've no problem with Courland and Lithuania doing it too, but given the alliance that exists between them already, and them joining the Nordic Union so recently, them applying right now just doesn't make much sense to me. Lordganon 21:08, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Putting Lincoln up for review
Just a quick note, Yank. I hate to do this to your article, but I am going to put it up for review. You see, I am working to make sense out of what might have happened in northern Missouri. Their first contact would have been with nearby Lincoln. Therefore, I was reviewing the article, noting that you have Lincoln claiming Sioux City, Iowa. It snuck in simply in "other cities" in the info box. That inclusion, it seems, was enough for Maine-iac to write that part of Iowa was under the control of Lincoln, which led Mitro to include the same in the gateway article for Iowa. Two things there, first and foremost, Sioux City was destroyed and would not be worth the bother of reclaiming even if Lincoln had the resources. Second, on what grounds would a supposedly peaceful isolationist community cross the Missouri River to invade southwest Iowa in the first place?

Also, Bellevue would probably have been a lost cause being a suburb or Omaha. Norfolk, Nebraska, though in the 'claimed' northeast corner, probably should not be listed among the "other cities" either. However, if it helps the Lincolnite cause, I suppose there is no harm done. Generally, what will be need is a little more thought into how the repbublic came to control the towns along the Platte River, and from that, claim the rest of the state. As I have written before, I personally think that controlling all the land South of the Platte gives the Republic a more logical claim on that part of the state. I'd think, though, that the USA would need a little bit of the land along the border with Colorado to connect physically with Kansas.

I appreciate the work you did in discussing with Zack about the border with South Dakota (we will get that article written some day!), but if you move the "claimed" area in the north to the southwest, the republic has a more logical and more easily defended boundary. I am sure that the state of Colorado would come to control the east slopes to expand its present meager boundaries if it had to.

I thank you for your time on this, and will wait a little bit before putting it up for review just in case you want to clear things up now instead of going through review. SouthWriter 16:09, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

China Needs Help! (Principia Moderni)
China has recently been invaded and is in dire need of assistance. Hanthawaddy has invaded the southern portion and Russia decided to jump on the bandwagon and invade western China. They have attacked unprovoked and I wish for help so China can reclaim its territory and maybe push into the invading countries.

China is the main provider of silk and rice to Europe, along with many spices, gold, and other items key to European luxury and even integrity. Should China fall, Europe, and perhaps even the entire Old World, will be in a state of economic disaster.

China and Vietnam have an alliance. I would really like your help by invading Hanthawaddy to distract them so I can take back my territory. You can keep any land in Hanthawaddy that you conquor.

Should you help China, you will be rewarded with extremely powerful naval ships, gold, silk, and other treasures. In addition, China has already pledged to stop the invasion of Inca. CrimsonAssassin 21:26, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Mon-Vietnam Border Treaty
Here's my map of the treaty. It isn't updating for some reason, so it isn't accurate completely, but it is roughy the same.

Message sent from Emperor Pimpisara II to Emperor of Vietnam:

I am regretful that our two former allies have come into a conflict, and I see it fit that we restore relations as quickly and easily as possible. Hanthawaddy has gained control over most Siamese and Lao territories in the region, but I wish to discuss a way to return these to Vietnamese rule. Hanthawaddy wishes to cede all areas shown in green to Vietnam, while maintaining control over those shown in red. Simply, Hanthawaddy wishes to gain full control over Singburi, a small parcel of land inhabited by Burmans in the north, and to the south, the Mon homeland on the Isthmus of Kra. Otherwise, all territory will be relinquished to Vietnam.

Hanthawaddy will provide:
 * 1) Free trade and travel through the newly gained territories.
 * 2) Renewed alliance.
 * 3) Allowing Vietnam to have a say in the newly-gained territory.

However, I ask:
 * 1) Vietnam allow Mons to settle anywhere on the Malay Peninsula.
 * 2) Vietnam shall not invade any of the new territories.
 * 3) A small yearly shipment of weapons, gold, and spices to show that the promise will be kept. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 19:58, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Arakan Federation
I'd be delighted to help. I just never got a reply to the map above so I figured you'd dropped the project. Also, I'd like a basic idea of what you are planning to do in Burma. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 18:36, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Hanthawaddian-Vietnamese War Aftermath
Chill dude, that was Collie, not me. I fixed the map. The only out-of-character reason I attacked China was to loosen up the borders, break up the gigantic power bloc in the area, and make the game more realistic so it isn't just a few countries slowly growing and then deciding to colonize, because that is not how history works I'm afraid. In character, Pimpisara II wanted to gain more power in East Asia. Before the war, Hanthawaddy's power and economy kinda concentrated itself in OTL Bangladesh, but an invasion of China would connect Hanthawaddy with the Mon and Burman people in China. I was hoping this war would be easily forgiven like the European wars of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, with rapidly changing alliances and stuff. If no one invades anyone, people are just going to keep getting more powerful. That's how history works, and that's how map games work. Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 18:41, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Film Studios
Yeah, that all sounds good. Idk what kind of "rebranding" the Mexican studios require, since so far the only note on Mexican film is the animated studio (I'm assuming Villa Studios would be based out of Peliculosa in Guadalajara, like most Mexican films are).

KingSweden 01:13, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Roman Empire Survives
Well, I'm a touch busy and with a big "to-do" list, but I'd be very willing to at least advise on such a thing.

After Constantine, the Western Empire is pretty much toast. There's no real way the West on its own can support a real military, unless it uses mercenaries like otl. And, I'm guessing you know how that turned out. After the split, there is no hope of survival until nearly the bitter end from otl.

There were three main remnants of the west in 476 - parts of Northern France, parts of North Africa, and Italy/Dalmatia.

North Africa survived until the Byzantines came, and joined them, being conquered by the Arabs around 700 AD. By most accounts, the Arabs barely used any forces to do this - simply have a commander with some brains and they should be able to fight them off and survive in some form, becoming independent of Byzantine rule in the process.

Northern France had its remnant survive until 486, when they lost a battle against the Franks. Here is a possibility - the Roman remnant was unified, but the Franks were not. Have Clovis of the Franks fail to convince a few of his sub-kings to come with him, and he'll lose the battle. Or, since the Romans fought a battle where Clovis told them, just have them have the sense to fight elsewhere.

And, Italy. Probably the best spot here is to have Julius Nepos, the last recognized Emperor, either have the sense to not take Orestes as his military commander, preventing that overthrow, or have him survive assassination in his Dalmatian territories in 480, and go from there to retake Italy like he was trying to do when he was assassinated otl. Barbarians would likely end up forcing him to Southern Italy and/or Sicily in the end, but it would work.

Lordganon 04:08, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

There are several things that led to the decline of the Roman Empire. In my opinion, this is the main one: The economy of the empire was based almost entirely on conquest. The more land they took, the more slaves and loot they brought into the empire. In order for the conquest they needed soldiers. The way citizenship worked, citizens had more rights than non-citizens, and one way to get citizenship was to join the army. This meant there was a constant supply of bright recruits for the army who dreamed of a better life for themselves and their families, resulting in better soldiers and commanders. The army also paid decent, but again the money for this was a result of conquest. Eventually less conquest resulted in less loot and economic decline. Eventually all residents of the empire were granted citizenship, so you had less loot to go into paying the army, and less incentive for top recruits to join, so eventually the army became nothing but ill equipped barbarians that were no match for outside threats.

So in my opinion if you want the west to continue to exist as an empire, what it needs most is economic reform, and to keep its citizenship system. Without economic reform the army would collapse because there would be no way to pay them. Without the citizenship system you don't have the incentive for top recruits to join the army.

Thats just opinion though, but economic decline and degradation of the army were the main reasons the empire fell as far as I know. So if you can come up with PODs to maintain the army and boost the economy that would be a good start.

I had the empire survive to modern day in my 2nd Punic Victory timeline, and that was mostly a result of Carthage winning the 2nd Punic War, forcing Rome to compete with an actual rival instead of steamrolling over barbarians.Oerwinde 07:56, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

No clue on an author. As I said, I'll give advice and maybe scribble up a few articles for you, but that would be it.

Well, the North African remnants referred to themselves as "Roman-Moors" or similar terms. Wikipedia lists it as the "Domain of Moor" - Domain being Kingdom/Duchy, more or less. The remnant, however, consisted at most otl of parts of the Moroccan/Algerian coastline and some of the Atlas Mountains. Settled by pretty much just by Romans, Moors, and Berbers. Mostly Berbers.

With Byzantine resources added, they will likely be able to stop the Arabs somewhere in Tunisia, far from the Sinai, but the losses overall being enough to regain independence from the Byzantines. Works even better - and this is the likely PoD - that the rulers of Altava, rather than resist the Byzantines, ally with them, keeping their throne. Then you have them around to be the basis of resistance to the Arabs a hundred years later.

You're right about more Christians in North Africa, mind - the northwest stays Christian, and the areas south of there will have Christian caravans spreading religion instead of Muslim ones like in otl (think of the butterflies in Spain! o.o).

The French Remnant was called the "Domain of Soissons." Clovis being defeated would really not mean the Gauls could take much land. The Frankish Kingdom was what amounted to a Confederation, with a lot of sub-kings, all of whom would resist. But, there they would dominate all of France, with the Franks getting otl Western Germany.

"Domain of Moor" or "Kingdom of Altava" would be likely names for the North Africa remnant. They will be hard-pressed to keep out the Arabs, let alone regain land east of Tunisia. Might manage some in the Crusades, but that would be about it. Question of numbers, I'm afraid.

Lordganon 08:35, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Appealing as it may be, the population east of Libya is just too high, and always has been, to make that really feasible. Though, the rest of North Africa would be,

Actually, the Franks were in Germany otl - they are actually Germanic, as were the tribes under their banner. If you look at a map, when the Romans in Gaul were conquered they controlled parts of Northeastern France, the Southeastern Netherlands, Central Germany, and Belgium.

The name being attached to "France" is pure coincidence. "Germany" comes from the Roman name for the area, "Germania," which was attached to the region after the split of the Empire. Basically, the people in Germany will stay the same, though the name has a good chance of being "Frankland," "France," or some other form instead of Germany. Germany would still be possible, of course.

Gaul would remain called that. Most of otl Northern France, over time, would be likely. Brittany seems to have been a quasi-ally of theirs, would would likely remain as such. Past that, expansion into southwest France would be very doable. Southeastern France, however, is Burgundian controlled, which is a different nut to crack altogether. Call it maybe 2/3rds of France they would manage to get, slightly more if they marry Brittany into their rule.

A good name for the timeline would have something to do with "Gaul." Maybe "Gaulic Rome?"

Butterflies..... Well, off--hand, the Franks will expand east, into otl Poland. Charlemagne would not be recognized as the Emperor by the Byzantines or the Pope, the Gaulic ruler would be, and that would be happening more or less after the battle goes their way. Italy will probably be more whole overall, with the Pope being a very good option. The Byzantines won't waste effort in Italy, but will likely act the same in Sicily, and North Africa. They will last longer, likely managing to defeat the Muslims and confine them to Arabia, or at least out of Anatolia - simply put, Justinian won't blow the entire treasury and all the manpower in Italy like otl. Heck, Belisarius would not have been in the doghouse over Italy and may very well seriously rolled up Persia, or elsewhere, after North Africa, too.

About the only person I can think of that has a good Rome timeline is Red VS Blue. Medieval, not a clue. But, I should note here too that this would be neither.

Lordganon 18:27, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it would be much more related. Probably, it would resemble the Alsatian language and Lorraine Franconian found in the Lorraine area otl, which are a sort of cross between the French and German languages. Frankland would work as a name.

Paris was really a fairly minor town until the Franks made it their capital for a few decades in the 6th Century. The Roman remnant had its capital at Soissons, an ancient town 60 miles northeast of modern Paris, and it would likely stay the capital. Either way, Paris is unlikely. Belguim, at least in part, would be added too.

The oldest settlements in the area of Berlin date back to the late 1100s. It likely wouldn't be founded at all here. Plus, the name is Slavic in origin. Aachen, the capital of Charlemagne, other ancient Rhineland cities such as Trier, or other old cities lie Regensburg, would all work well. Somewhere in the Rhineland would be best. Belgium and the Netherlands would also be in this kingdom, though Austria I have to doubt would be.

"Germany" would probably not have Wilna as the capital. Otl, it wasn't founded until the 1200s, according to most scholars. You're going to want to include what is now northwestern Russia too, if Finland is included. Probably, it would be better off without it, especially given the likelihood of the Norse getting Finland anyways. Northern Poland, outside of Frankland, would be included too. but, overall, you're going to get to name, etc. everything here as you desire. If it helps, virtually all the otl settlement names in the area originates from names the Germans attached to places, so it'd work out like otl. Could not find a single place that predates that the PoD as a settlement, either. The earliest reference I can find is for the town of Grobiņa, which has had several cemeteries dating back to sometime between 650 and 800 AD uncovered over the years. A Norse colony, an early one, by what they've found, but it would exist, I think, atl too.

Gothica sounds good, though the name could likely use work. Same for Austria, and most of the rest.

Angland would probably end up under the Norse in some fashion. Barring that, given the setup of how the Normans came to be, there's actually a decent chance of a similar event occurring. The Norse here would still manage more or less the same feats as atl.

Much as I like the idea of a Celtic Kingdom, I have to doubt it would be feasible overall. Just too many factions, and too low a population. A unified "Angland" would most likely conquer them. An Irish Celtic Kingdom would be better. Maybe have the Norse take Scotland entirely? Given otl, it wouldn't be too far-fetched, especially with more resistance on the mainland atl.

Add what is now northern Afghanistan, northwestern China, and probably what is now the areas of Russia near Kazakhstan as well to Turkey. They've long held a majority of "Turkic" populations too.

Good ideas, Yank.

Lordganon 09:36, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

You make it, and I'll see what I can do.

Have to disagree on Italy, however. It may be more interesting, but.... it's not that realistic. In order for them to manage such a thing, they'd have to overextend themselves, which given the setup we discussed previously, is like inviting the Franks to take them over. At the very least, they can't manage it for a long time - just not militarily a good idea, if you follow my logic.

In my opinion, it is far more likely that they, and the Byzantines, would aid the Pope and his Italian allies in securing the peninsula - think of it as a neutral state between them, if that helps. If you think about it, their presence in Gaul alone would probably mean that Justinian has no desire to go to Italy. As I said before, the Byzantines would likely recognize Syagrius and his descendants as the Western Roman Emperors too. That alone would keep them out of Italy except to support the Syagrius line in straightening out the problems there.

Lordganon 01:01, August 12, 2011 (UTC)