Talk:Vive la Revolution! (Map Game)

France
Just so to correct a small fact: France OTL is still a monarchy and will be until 1792; and in 1789 Louis is still in absolute power de jure. France will become the revolutionary Kingdom of the French only in October of 1789; anything earlier than that, Louis is still in control of an absolute monarchy. Fed (talk) 17:53, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

thanks fed, i didnt know that to be honest, and thats NOT sarcasm DeanSims 17:55, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Map
I'm sorry, but we need a map. Can a mapmaker please obtain one? Monster Pumpkin 18:40, February 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Already done. ChrisL123 19:15, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Colonies
Is there some way to play as the spanish coloneis that are about to emancipate from the mother country? I want to play as the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata (Argentina), may be a could play the colony as a kind of "vassal" of Spain until the indepencende, the local government was anyway very de facto autonomous by the time. Also, I'd like to be mapmaker too. --Galaguerra1 18:44, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

sure, you have my permission, where is the games real creator though, it would be nice if he would join us. Britain will support you if you declare independance. But start by wrting that Dissent against the crown is rising for a turn or two. DeanSims 19:19, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Be calm, I know my own country's history. I'm not thinking about getting independent until, at least, 1810 decade. Until then, I will being administrating the viceroyality. --Galaguerra1 19:25, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Mapmaker
Hi. I'm SS and I'm playing for the Ottoman Empire. Can I be a mapmaker? I have quite some experience in maps. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:46, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

sure you can. DeanSims 15:14, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alliances
I have realized a major flaw in the game. ALL THE PLAYING NATIONS ARE ALLIED TO OTHERS! THERE ARE NO OPPOSING ALLIANCES!

For example, the USA is allied with the UK and France. France is allied with Austria and Prussia. Austria is allied with Russia, Prussia, and the Ottoman Empire. What happens if a war erupts? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Alliances
Okay, in under a day, this has gone wild implausible. Why the hell with Britain & the US, bitter enemies, ally?! And why would Austria, Russia and Prussia, the principal counter-revolutionary forces and in Austria's case MARIE ANTOINETTE'S HOMELAND WHOSE BROTHER IS IN POWER be friendly with France? AND WHY THE HELL IS FRANCE INVADING ME WITHOUT EVEN GIVING A REASON AND GIVING ME TIME TO ARM UP LAST TURN?! This map game is just RWG trying to turn this into yet another of his Napoleon wanks.

To add to this:


 * Turkey and Austria are mortal enemies and will be until the XX Century.


 * Russia, Austria and Turkey are competing and warring permanently.

Fed (talk) 23:22, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Near to every nation France is diplomacing with was counter-revolutionary.

Prussia is not an ally with France, and is quite sore over the monarchy's overthrow. I'm not sure on the other parts. Monster Pumpkin 23:24, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Basically, the picture at right demonstrates the alliances now. And I agree with Fed. How exactly are the Brits and Americans allies? The US just won the revolution! And US-UK tension didn't calm down until the 20th Century, around the late 1890s! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:33, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I would like to piont out that Prussia's only ally right now is Britain, as they only signed a non-agression pact with Austria. Monster Pumpkin

Let's see the implausible in the graph:


 * US and Britain allied


 * France and Britain


 * Austria and Prussia


 * Austria and Russia


 * Austria and France


 * Ottomans and Russia


 * Ottomans and Austria

... Yeah. Nothing implausble at all, right? *sarcasm* Fed (talk) 23:38, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

And yes, the invasion of France was just downright implausible, especially since Fed didn't post in 1789.0. And technically, Prussia is a French ally, since it is allied with the UK and Austria, both of whom are allied to France.

And Selim III, in actual history, attempted to end the Russo Turkish War of 1787. And here, his goal is accomplished, since the Russians accepted here. And the Ottoman Empire was also at war with the Austrian at the same time; Selim III also tried to end this war, and did in success here. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:41, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Peace isn't equal to friendly enough terms for an alliance. Fed (talk) 23:42, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Just because you are allies with someone does not mean you are allies with their allies; Prussia is angry with France at the moment. Monster Pumpkin 23:43, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I (Austria) am willing to give up my alliance with Russia and the Ottomans and only keeping my alliance with France (as well as non-aggression pact with Prussia.) ChrisL123 00:03, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

America is willing to give up my alliance with everybody, and become isolationists. Enclavehunter 00:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

All alliances should be dropped, and the game should be restarted as per the proposal below. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Proposal
I propose that we start the game again at 1315 EST tomorrow. Everything will start again, including who plays for which nation. And we should ban some implausibilities. Or we could revise the entire game. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:43, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I say let the people keep their nations, but restart the game. Enclavehunter 23:44, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Enclavehunter. And RWG, could you PLEASE read a little about the early phases French Revolution? Fed (talk)

Some of the players in the game are wrongly using the power of their nation. I think Spain, Russia, the US, the Ottomans, and the Viceroyalty can keep their players. The others need to be re-assigned to different nations.

But if you disagree, that's fine. But RWG cannot retain France. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:49, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

What has Prussia done to lose their player? All they have done is invade a German Duchy and establish a colony. Monster Pumpkin 23:51, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think everybody keeps their nations, but allowed moderators to delete implausibility without warning. Enclavehunter 23:54, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

This oh so much. Fed (talk) 23:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, sorry Monster Pumpkin. I forgot Prussia was playing. Prussia is probably the only country that has not done anything implausible.

Nah it cool. But really, we do need a method of rooting out impluasibility. Monster Pumpkin 00:02, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

MY PROPOSAL: ALL IN FAVOR?
 * 1) Everything so far is erased.
 * 2) Everyone keeps their nations except the UK and France. France because it is being too imperialistic and the UK for implausibly siding with Napoleon.
 * 3) Restart the game in1800, to make everything different.
 * 4) Mods can immediately delete implausibility.
 * 5) All ongoing wars continue raging.
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:07, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter 00:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Only to conditions 1-3. I think that the Spanish-French war should not be happening at the moment, and that mods at least explain why it is impluasible. Monster Pumpkin 00:09, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * ChrisL123 00:15, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Fed (talk) 03:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * TacoCopper 03:09, February 20, 2012 (UTC)(all of them except 4, I agree with Monster Pumpkin, if you just deleted I probably would have thought someone did it by accident and just put it back up there, that and no one would know what they did)
 * I will stay as the UK, but the rest I agree to, I can tone down my pro-French feelings. DeanSims 15:17, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

By ongoing wars, I mean wars that are happening at the start of 1800 in OTL. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:12, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm in favor. If we're gonna start in 1800 then may be the UK will be not an "ally" but an enemy of the Viceroyality. I think may be Spain should react before some of the policies that the "revolurionaries" will implement on the Rio de la Plata. --Galaguerra1 01:41, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

We need one more vote for a majority. But does the new Japan guy count? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Lets restart the game, the mods and mapmakers all get one vote each. someone please make a poll.

First of all, sorry for causing the trouble. My proposal is that the wars are cancelled and that we can choose a new nation. How about that? RandomWriterGuy 19:38, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

THE FINAL PROPOSAL FOR VIVE LA REVOLUTION!
POINTS: FORBIDDEN: ALL IN FAVOR?
 * The Game shall start in 1800 Common Era and shall begin 00:00 UTC on February 21, 2012 (tomorrow).
 * Any wars that are happening OTL in 1800 shall continue unless a peace is reached.
 * The moderators will first tell someone their post is implausible. If the player does not fix their post, it can and will be erased.
 * Everyone can keep their nations.
 * Napoleon's France and the United Kingdom cannot be allies.
 * The British shall not be allies with the Viceroyalty.
 * Anything that was posted in 1789 cannot be reposted.
 * Invasions are variant. No country can invade another country unless their casus belli is approved by the mods.
 * The United States cannot be allies with the United Kingdom until 1870. (Close enough to the 20th Century)
 * Implausibility of course!
 * France cannot invade any nation until two years after Napoleon's rise to power!

ALL IN FAVOR? Agreed Against

What about: France has some sort of "Revolutionary limitations" until the factions are stabilised, and the absolute monarchies (Spain, Austria, Turkey, basically every nation in Europe but Britain) have "absolutist limitations" or "Enlightenment limitations" until the revolutionaries are at least partially satisfied, in which they cannot invade as many nations or do as many expansion and military turns? ~Fed

How about we can choose different nations if we like. (or switching them with other people). RandomWriterGuy 22:22, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

My POV On Things
Now I'm not saying that I should have overhwhelming say in running this map game, but as its intellectual creator, and a player, I believe I should have a say in what goes on here. I simply ask that the starting year be kept at 1789, or simply be pushed forward to 1792 to keep the original idea of the map game intact. This is of course nonbinding to anyone else who plays or mods this game, but I simply ask for you all to reconsider on my behalf. Ownerzmcown 22:10, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

At last we find the creator. By all means, 1792 seems like a good compromise between '89 and 1800. 1792 is the starting time in the proposal then.

And 1792 is a reasonable year. GW was elected to his second term, but Napoleon CANNOT come to power yet. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I am glad you have all seen reason, this compromise is hopefully the starting point of this site's next big map game, here's hoping. Ownerzmcown 22:47, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

When does the game re-start? Fed (talk) 21:42, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I started it, not sure if it's cool with any of the mods, but seeing as you had all agreed to with all this....I decided to go on- Ianian58 (China)

By the way, can the mods control France's actions together as some sort of "mod event"? Given the focus of this map game, we kinda need a France... Fed (talk) 02:57, February 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, seeing as France's player traded, we could have one of the other countries trade. I could do it, seeing as I'm a mod myself. We should have a kind of election on who wants to play France and then we vote for it. ChrisL123 03:02, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

So?
A simple question...When do we pass the turn? --Galaguerra1 16:52, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Since nobody has started the next turn, I assume the mods are a bit lazy, have forgotten, or don't have time, I will start the next turn, I ask any mod to delete it if it's not right. Ianian58 19:06, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Anglo-American Peace Treaty
The Treaty of London

 1.  The USA will cede OTL Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota to the United Kingdom. The USA will be compensated.

 2.  The United Kingdom will cede Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to the United States.

 3.  The United States must not expand past this treaty’s borders until 1845 unless it is in a military/expansion venture with Britain.

 4.  The United States must NOT ally with France, Russia, or any of those two nations’ satellite states.

 5.  The United States will not interfere in European affairs unless on a join Anglo-American mission in Europe or with the United Kingdom’s allies.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 6.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  The United Kingdom will allow Native Americans in the USA’s territory to be moved into British land as to increase American settlement in America’s lands and possessions.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 7.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  All expansion before 1845 must be approved by the United Kingdom.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 8.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  The United Kingdom will not expand into any American territory unless sold honestly and legaly by the USA to the United Kingdom  UNLESS  the United States declares war on the United Kingdom, in which the United Kingdom will be forced to act.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"> Needed Signatures: Britain: DeanSims 16:19, February 25, 2012 (UTC) America:Enclavehunter 16:19, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

South Africa
I want to ask, because I'm pretty confused here. How is it possible for the UK to expand further into South Africa if they never had a presense in that particular area, and the area around South Africa, particularly the Cape of Good Hope, belongs to the Dutch? Razgriz 2K9 16:48, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

they had it at the start of the game, check the map.

The British or the Dutch? From what I saw on the map, the Dutch (that would be me) had South Africa. I did not see any British presense in the general area of Southern Africa, though granted, the map hasn't been updated. Razgriz 2K9 17:34, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Cape colony is Dutch right now and will be OTL until 1795. Fed (talk) 19:51, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Britain made a colony from what I understand. Map games don't always have to follow OTL history. ChrisL123 20:01, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Siam and Burma
Currently, only Burma has the color, Siam should as well as they are in loose confederation. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:19, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Since no official mapmaker did anything, I fixed it myself. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:16, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I wasn't sure where Burma was. I asked in the Isuses section. Then today I looked it up and went to fix it and saw that you did it. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:02, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Chinese Claims in Alaska.
That map there, is the map of Chinese claims. ~Ianian58

Um, Russia had already begun colonising Alaska (it discovered it in 1733) and it had several Russian outposts. It was not incorporated until about 1799, but your claims conflict with Russian trade posts. Fed (talk) 01:34, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

I believe Alaska was mainly uncolonized by the Russians; although you are right, some claims here are interferng with Russian ports, Alaska remained largely uncolonized until the mid-late 19th century, sure, some Russian populace here and there, some official cities here and there, but Alaska remained still largely uncolonized. I'll make an edited map tomrrow though. Ianian58 01:47, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Brtain has establihsed several colonies on the Pacific Coast, estpecuialy around OTL Anchorage, Seattle, AND sAN fRANCISCO. DeanSims 15:10, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

PS: THESE HAVE BEEN THEIR FOR AT LEAST A FEW TURNS BEFORE cHINA'S. DeanSims 15:10, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Ottoman-Persian War
In 1795.5, the Ottomans will have peace with Persia and give large areas in southern Persia to the Dutch and British in thanks for their help. I have a proposed map. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:56, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Britain agrees, but says that the OE should annex more of Persia, as many died in this war. DeanSims 17:26, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Quite so, but wish to show them some mercy. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:14, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

yes, dont commit any massacres, and be nice to civillians. Britain would like a little more land as well, but not very much more. DeanSims 19:19, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Spanish-Pact of Iron Peace Talks
Let the talks begin. DeanSims 19:32, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Spain shall: here is the PoI Proposal -- The rest Spain will agree upon.
 * Give independence to its viceroyalties in a Commonwealth-like plan, since your cassus belli is 'imperialism by Spain'. The exception to this is Cuba and New Granada.
 * Grant a heavy tribute to the PoI.
 * Hand over claims to Oregon in exchange to Gibraltar.
 * Accept special trade exceptions frpm the PoI.
 * Be given Gibraltar
 * Spain will not have to pay tribute.
 * Spain will pace all of its North and South American possessions under control of the PoI Council, and they will be granted indepdance through a system of commonwealth status.
 * Gibraltar will be ceded to Spain in return for nothing
 * Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola, and OTL Chile will be allowed to remain under Spanish control.
 * Spain shall retina all of its European possessions
 * OTL Louisiana Territory will be ceded to the UK as well as OTL' Republic of Texas.
 * The states of Mexico, New Granada, Peru, Chile and Rio de la Plata shall be given independence directly with the King of Spain as head of atate and a democratic or monarchic (fir for them to decide upon.) head of government.
 * Louisiana and Texas will become a co-protectorate of the UK and Spain.

No offense, but I think giving Louisiana and Texas to Britain is ASB. Try sharing Louisiana with the US and UK and give Texas to the US. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:11, March 4, 2012

alright, Louisiana will be split between the UK and USA with Texas becoming a Republic.

Makes sense. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:21, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

alright, I will make aproposal map. here it is



Bingo. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:02, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Location

 * At the war: 5
 * Next to the war: 4
 * Close to the war: 3
 * Far from the war: 2
 * Halfway around the world: 1

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3
 * Side with greater population: 3
 * Side with greater industry: 3

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Island: 4

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * Religious: 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3

WHY?!
Whay is every one trying to threaten Spain? It has done nothing to harm us! RandomWriterGuy 22:38, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Can I ask why we rolled back the game again. I don't know what implausiblity has happened.TacoCopper 16:02, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Because Canada received independence and so thusly changed to whole game. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 18:15, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Australia
The Ottoman Emprie has a proposal for Australia.

the british offer this divison of Australia and that no one cross those borders in the future. if another antion colonates there, we three will respond by force to remove them.



Prussia wants Tasmania, as we have trading posts there already. Monster Pumpkin 20:20, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Britain has held Tasmania for several years before Prussia.DeanSims 20:25, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

What year did you first gain it? It was never shown on the map and I never saw you saying that. Monster Pumpkin 20:28, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

tasmania is thought be an island of Austrlaia, and when I siad i was colonatiing austrlaia i also sent some to Tasmania. DeanSims 20:31, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really going to accept that. If you know what the place is called then you should say that you are colonising that specific place, not using a generic term because then other players are not sure what is happening, as in this case. Monster Pumpkin 20:34, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I just want that little island. I had it since I became a mapmaker. I secretly colored it Ottoman green. Here's my proposal: at right. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:19, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

And if you guys are disagreeing, we might as well give the whole Australian and Zealandian continent to America or Russia or Austria-Hungary. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:19, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

You can have the island, but I landed at Tasmania, and I want it. That's it. Monster Pumpkin 22:22, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

tasmania is britsh, but the british will give you the bahamas if youo give up tasmania. DeanSims 22:27, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

i dont like the map, i have to go. i yhave my colonies where they are, and they will stay there unless the below map is accepted: i will have to do this tomorwo guys, im going to los tres amigos tonight, it has awesome grilled chicken and chips and salsa. tomorow we will talk, i promise. DeanSims 22:27, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

All right. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:34, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Here's another proposal. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:41, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

i accept it, and Prussia can have Tasmanaia, as it is a Pact ember,a dn it deserves to be treated as an equal to Britain, not a subject. DeanSims 16:21, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ok then. Settled. So I'll just add it to the main map. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:47, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

China here (Quing Dynasty), don't really want anything here, but, I believe the British should get a bit more, considering they are the greater power and all; they could probably kick the Dutch and Ottoman out if they want, just, saying. Ianian58 20:35, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Well, we gave Britain more than we originally wanted to and Ottomans and Dutch combined could hypothetically bring an end to Pax Britannica. The Dutch and British are allied, so need in kicking the Dutch out. The Ottomans and British are not allied, but we have a peace pact and we are an observor state in the Pact of Iron. And the Ottomans had a colony there for a while, so, yeah. No need in kicking anyone out. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:06, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Can I take France?
After a while as playing as China, I've been noticing Britain has been largely god-nation lately, and realized they have no main competitor, I wondered where nations like France was, and then I realized France was controlled by mods; and no big event from France and all. So I was wondering, can I take control of France? No I won't make a Quing-French Dynasty. Or will France stay strictly for mods? Ianian58 00:03, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah you can probably do that. Just don't combine your nations like you said and you will be fine. Monster Pumpkin 00:09, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe both of us can do it. China and the Ottoman Empire are both major Asian powers. Let's take turns or something. I won't make King Louis the Sultan of Turkey either. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:46, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I see no reason why both of us can't do so. I'll take next turn then! Ianian58 01:47, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Alaskan Proposal
The French propose this map on the proposal on the division of Alaska. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:33, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Russia declines, stating that there have been three other nations here way longer than France has. Also, how did France take half of Alaska in less then a turn.TacoCopper

France taking that much is implausible. LurkerLordB (Talk) 20:33, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

No it's not. It's France. We're in the middle of Pax Francia. France is the world superpower right now. Also, there's nobody there, so why can't we claim it? It's not like the Eskimos can prevent us from moving in. We'll give you more land. Make your proposals and see what happens. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:55, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

the ttoman empire colonizing north america or any of the americas is crazy. the ottomans cant colonize any land in america it isnt even possible, colonizing austrlaia was already stretching it, and if France conitnues violate Americas colonies, war will result. DeanSims 15:01, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

The colonization by the Ottoman Empire is not crazy, they could occupy all of Arabia, then its possible for them to colonize Alaska. As for France and its colonial expansion, yes they did expand into my colonies (had an pretty amount of land around an small french colony, and when France expanded, they took an bunch of my territory.) It's really not an problem, as much of the colonial issue was settled. Enclavehunter 15:07, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm just going to go off and quit this map game. Someone took French colonies off the map. I understand that the Alaskan colony was messed up, but why Africa? I'm just this close to quitting. I might also quit Battle for Earth. And besides, we fixed up the problem with America. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:42, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Don't quit either man. The French colonies we taken off because Sims didn't have the recent map at the time. They are still there. Also, don't quit Battle for Earth either, you and I are about to become ancient and supremely powerful. Monster Pumpkin 17:44, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please don't quit. The map will be fixed, I'll do it myself if I have too. Enclavehunter 17:46, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

All right. Lol, MP, I meant as Canada, because they're about to destroy and enslave humanity. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum.

Pact of Iron vs Mexico
I'm going to use the algorithm:

America and Britain

 * Location: 5
 * Strength: 12 (Britain, greater industry, greater population) Prussia, America, and Britain.
 * Tatical Advantage: 1
 * Motive: 5 (Poltical)
 * Random.org: 7
 * Total: 30

Mexico

 * Location: 5
 * Strength: 2
 * Tatical Advantage: 5
 * Random.org: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Total:20

Result

 * Crushing Pact of Iron Victory, Mexico is forced to surrender under the terms that it will still stay independant.

Discussion
Wouldn't Mexico have a strenth of 3 as it is participating? Swollow

no, it has a small population and barely any army. it would have one at best. DeanSims 15:05, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Mexico has expanded its army and navy, but does have an small population, so I'll suggest that it be an two. Enclavehunter 15:08, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

mexcios motive shouldnt be 10, it is imperialistic and the Paacrt is trying to stop it from being an imperialsitic monster, its motive should be a five, because its not life or death, its political. DeanSims 16:34, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

From what I've seen, not all the nations in the Pact of Iron declared war, not all of them sent soldiers; and lovely how you sent an entire perfectly sized force with the U.S in one turn and completely defeating them in one turn. And yes, Mexico's motive should be ten, it can considered life or death since following that defeat they would collapse economically and fall in to chaos due to sudden loss of land. And Mexico has a decent enough population at the time to have a decent army. Ianian58 22:51, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

There is no way a war would be over in six months. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:55, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

The above posters are right, Prussia didn't send any soldiers (yet), only ships. Besides, considering Mexico's size, no nation could defeat it so soon. Extend it by a few years. Monster Pumpkin 23:06, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

New Algorthim
Due to a somewhat odd Algorthim I thought I may propose a new one, changes and new things are in bold. Ianian58 16:15, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

LocationEdit

 * At the war: 5
 * Next to the war: 4
 * Close to the war: 3
 * Far from the war: 1
 * Halfway around the world: -1 (By negative, I mean it loses one, due to wasting massive supplies, poor main comands, and wariness from troops from the mainland.)

StrengthEdit

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3
 * Side with greater population: 3
 * Side with greater industry: 3
 * Control of the Seas: 3+ attackers, or 5+ defenders. (The nation with a superior navy in that area, that has control of the seas of the areas, has a major advantage, due to blockading ports, or cutting off the enemy's supplies. 
 * Tired Military: If defending nation is fighting another war already somewhere else: -4
 * If attacking force is fighting another war somewhere else: -4
 * Size of Army: (Nation with a larger army) If attacker has a larger army: 3+ 
 * If attacking army is smaller -3
 * Vice versa for defenders.

Tactical AdvantageEdit

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Island: 4
 * General: 
 * (Depending on who is leading the army, if it is detailed and the genral is historically sucessful.)
 * Attacker: 1+ Defender: 1+
 * Random.orgEdit

MotiveEdit

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Religious: 4-7 (Depending which nation, if religious like Ottoman, or Siam-Burma, it goes to 7, if it's a nation like the U.S, France or Britain it's 4. 
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3

Discussion:

 * Please say talk here. Ianian58 16:15, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

I like this new algorithim. It will help in the Napoleonic Wars. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 16:04, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this far more better. Enclavehunter 16:06, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to put something, in superior army size, it should range from 3-9, depending on the size of the force n the other war and the size of the place where the army is.

Napoleonic Wars
The Napoleonic Wars have begun! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 16:04, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

How did it begin? Who did Napoleon declare war on other than Morocco, who isn't allied with anyone else? Monster Pumpkin 16:09, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well, in a way it can be considered a form-of Napoleonic War, due to Napoleon being the one who started the war against Morocco, a nation like Great Britain may interfere which may make the war suddenly large-scale. Ianian58 16:17, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Any war waged by Napoleon can be regarded as part of the Napoleonic Wars. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 18:24, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

True, but the Napoleonic Wars were named Napoleonic Wars because they were wars aimed to take him off the throne by other powers (the coalition) and so on. It can be regarded as a Napoleonic War (Morrocan-Franco war) but not truly though. If so, World War 2 might as well be called Hitleric War. Ianian58 03:07, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

That would be Franco-Morrocan War, becuase Franco is used as the of War name. As far I know, I think they were named so because they part of Napoleon's campaign to conquer Europe. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:09, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

The Issue about Me and DeanSims
Recently, DeanSims has made a obnoxious lie that I attacked Colombia and called for the world to attack me. It is so unfair, THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE ABOUT THIS AND APPARENTLY, DEANSIMS MUST BE TAUGHT A LESSON!!! Right now, I am asking all of you: how will DeanSims be dealt with (or punished)?

RandomWriterGuy 02:10, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well actually, I did go through the records, and you did say that you were invading Colombia, three times in fact. They are listed below, directly taken from the game itself:

1802.0 <span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";">Mexico <span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-weight: normal;">begins to invade Colombia and ask the Pact of Steel to not intervene in exchange for no harm to Britain's South American territories.

<p style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">1802.5 Mexico: It officially conquers half of Colombia, still not harming Britain's South American territories.

1803.0 <span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";">Mexico <span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-weight: normal;"> <span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-weight: normal;">asks Britain to not attack the country, and in exchange, they will stop attacking Colombia.

However, this was some time ago, and seeing as how Britain did not raise an incident until now, it would appear that the incident was passed over. You did not change the records, that is fact, and DeanSim's behaviour in that regard was inappropriate. However, he will not punished for one mistaken incident. Verdict will only be issued when all the mods deem it appropriate. Monster Pumpkin 02:21, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

While I am right about this issue, you are also right. I eventually forgot about it because I felt it. Yeah, Dean needs to be updated on world events! OR I AM MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDD!!!!!!!!!RandomWriterGuy 02:26, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

It seems bizarre that Britain would attack Mexico when they were no longer attacking Colombia (years and turns, almost a week) after they stopped. Currently, the most plausible reasons for DeanSims attacking Mexico are a)he read the pan-American initiatives which involved Colombia, and mistook this diplomacy for war b)As he was reading through old turns, he mistakenly thought that RWG posted that in 1805 c)The UK government is so slow that they take years to deal with incidents that have already happened or d)Deansims wanted to declare war on Mexico anyways so he drudged up this old incident to start a war over. Whatever the way, Mexico was not attacking Colombia when Britain attacked, and RWG did not try and alter his turns to change anything to cover it up, both of which Deansims said happened. LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:57, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Lurk got it. Dang edit conflicts. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:03, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you thank you thank you Lurk. I would have to admit both of you are right. But who cares about Colombia now?! Also, I demand that DeanSims be BANNED FROM THIS GAME FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!

RandomWriterGuy 03:44, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

alright im sorry, i made a mistake. sorry rwg, nothing personal i must have mest up the turns. i fixed the post so no war has occured. DeanSims 14:07, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

ASB?
I am very concerned about Britain in this game. It is expanding so freaking fast that it is the juggernaut of the world! I think expanding in this some sort of rate is just too much! Should DeanSims' expansions be slowed? RandomWriterGuy 21:48, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

It dosn't need to be slowed, it needs to be stopped.Enclavehunter 22:23, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps we should have a bunch of the colonies revolt? (and by revolt that means permanently, not Britain can take them back 5 turns later) LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:22, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Hey people, we're also discussing this issue on the home page. I made that huge complaints paragraph. Revolt is no good. We need to completely size down the British colonies and get Britain's rear end out KAMCHATKA, which is RUSSIAN! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:29, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Also, DeanSims has been doing some implausible crap including one time ISSUING A MONROE DOCTRINE!! We have to stop his chaotic implausibility before it gets out of control!!! RandomWriterGuy 03:45, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Monroe Doctrine? Come on, man, MONROE WAS THE US PRESIDENT! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:47, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I like how basically his Monroe doctrine is to stop anyone else from colonizing Colombia or Venezuela as his colony expands. LurkerLordB (Talk)

Yeah. And how there's no space left to colonize anyways since the "Republic of Alaska" took over the whole place. A couple of move back, he also stole one of my colonies. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:18, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Ban DeanSims or not?
I am now holding a poll on whether DeanSims will be permenatly be banned from this game. If a majority vote yes, then DeanSims is out forever!

For

 * LurkerLordB (Talk) 04:11, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:18, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * RandomWriterGuy 02:36, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Against
Let the best side win! Oh, and by next day, I will choose what will happen to DeanSims. RandomWriterGuy 04:02, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * DeanSims 14:13, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Monster Pumpkin 16:20, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter

Discussion
I just want to say, that DeanSIms has not broken any major rule, he made a mistake. If he was sockpuppeting or deleting other people's posts, then yes, he should be banned, but he should use his head on what is implausible or not. If he does something implausible, then we can just cross it out. Monster Pumpkin 16:20, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I've played with DeanSims on many map games, and most of the time it just dies because of his implausibilty (no offense Dean). We can't all just blame dean in the plausibility, I've done some, and I'm sure the others did too. Enclavehunter 16:30, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

maybe I should lay off the map games for a while. DeanSims 16:33, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

We've all done implausibilty, but DeanSims goes way overboard with it. It's just going to end in the collapse of this game. Because Allies vs Entente was ruined, we started Triple Entente vs. Central Powers. Now I know I did a lot of implausible stuff there, but that was because: A: DeanSims declared war on Austria-Hungary, his ally. In retaliation, Canada broke off from the UK because they were not doing anything about it. B: He got Mexico involved in the War and gave them PLANES. In response France declared war on Germany.

Does everyone notice this chain of events? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:03, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

what the hell did i ever do to you? DeanSims 17:07, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Sims, that's not the way to win allies. I think the way that those events happened is because teh mods weren't vigilant enough, (I think i aws one of them, so I share teh blame) and then it just got out of hand. Now it is harder to do that. Monster Pumpkin 17:10, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't Deansims officially still a moderator at this game? Ought he to be removed from that post? LurkerLordB (Talk) 17:26, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:41, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

@MP: Yeah, and I was one of them too, but whenever I objected to something, it magically disappeared.

@DS: I'm telling you on your talk page.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:41, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to abstain, all I want to do is have fun with history. I agree that we've probably done some implausible things, (Persia for one thing) but I don't think we should count out Dean because of it. Likewise his response to his wrongdoing however is not something I'd tolerate. Razgriz 2K9 17:45, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

all i said was waht did i do. hell is a place, one in Michigan, one after we die, not a swearword DeanSims 18:06, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

The Persian War was not implausible because the Muslims always tried to attack the Persians. Even during the Rashidun Caliphates, there was animosity agains the Zoroastrians and Persians. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 18:14, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't want to take sides here; I think Sims has been implausible at some points in this game, we should just make him stop, if he continues, then sure, remove him. But for now, I'm not taking a side. Ianian58 19:59, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

While I have to admit I did some implausibility, the level DeanSims is on is way way off. Scraw, Enclave, and Pumpkin, you need to know if DeanSims goes loose, everything is ruined. RandomWriterGuy 21:52, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Which is exactly why the mods need to be more vigilant. We are begining to become so. Monster Pumpkin 22:00, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Well except Dean of course! RandomWriterGuy 22:05, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I know that. I'm just saying, he needs to be controlled, not ban, but controlled Enclavehunter 22:28, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Listen to what Scraw just said: he is right! Any invasion of Persia by Britain would take many decades! And DeanSims sped up the process to the implausible speed! RandomWriterGuy 02:38, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Persia was invaded by three nations, if you remember. Monster Pumpkin 02:41, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

But still, there would be difficulties, including the terrain and climate. This is the very same situation when the British attacked Afghanistan. Because of the difficulties, Britain was forced to abandon all claims to that country. (As an fyi, the discussion will be continued in the other section). RandomWriterGuy 02:50, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

The Ottoman Empire was very strong (at least, strong enough to invade Persia). We invaded a small area with little population. The Royal Navy (strongest nay in the world) invaded them from the South and the coast, while the Dutch (very strong land army) invaded from the North. Then we partitioned Persia. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:59, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Result
We reached a tie. We're going for one more round.

For

 * RandomWriterGuy 02:38, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter 02:44, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:56, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Against

 * Monster Pumpkin 02:52, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I just hope that we can get votes for banning DeanSims forever. RandomWriterGuy 02:38, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't like it, but I'm for it, just to settle the dispute. Enclavehunter 02:44, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, it's a game. No need ot ban someone for mistakingly lying. Everyone has done something implausible, so we all have some amount of blame. Monster Pumpkin 02:53, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

This is NOT ABOUT COLOMBIA, it is about DeanSims implausibility in terms of expansion. I mean look: he has expanded so quickly in just a short amount of time! RandomWriterGuy 02:56, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

We have all done something implausible in regards with expansion! The point of the mods is to limit the expansion if it is too high, which is something we neglected to do and now we are paying for it. The fact that Sims is a mod makes is akward for us to say that he can't do this or that. Take away his mod status yes, but his right to play the game!? Really?! Monster Pumpkin 03:00, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I can't trust him anymore! I mean, look what he did to this map game (search the talk page and you will see evidence). You may (or may not) be here when it was running, but just look at the freaking implausibility Dean did! RandomWriterGuy 03:05, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Then his mod status should be revoked and be replaced by someone neutral (such as lurker maybe). Then we are all happy. Sims can keep playing, We have a new mod, and the rules can be better enforced. Monster Pumpkin 03:13, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should temporarily ban him and forever remove his mod status and put Ianian or Lurk. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:15, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

No no no no no. I mean, I ain't wanting to ban him from ALL map games. It's JUST ONE!!! He has to learn his lesson! RandomWriterGuy 03:16, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

If we ban him from this one then he will go to others and be implausible there. If we are good mods, then it will be fine. Monster Pumpkin 03:18, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I meant to ban him from this game for, say, ten turns. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:24, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

French Colonial Size
France being my secondary nation which I took control of due to lack of rival for other European powers, I noticed France in Africa is too.......massive. I mean look at it, out of all the nations, it outgrows the other nation 3 to 1, or bigger; can I ask a map mod to lower the sizes significantly? Ianian58 02:02, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

The current map is incorrect. Do you remeber the previous size of Britain? That was huge and implausible. We expanded to counter attack. If everyone accepts the current map, we will downsize France in Africa. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:14, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Good point Scraw. It's just like Britain, though only in a smaller scale. RandomWriterGuy 02:51, April 1, 2012 (UTC)