Talk:Union Interim Parliament (1983: Doomsday)

Caretaking
Is anybody caretaking this page? I don't plan to adopt it but I was thinking of writing some WCRB news articles on it. Arstar 15:54, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

It looks like Mitro's the one who wrote it, so you'll need to ask him. Lordganon 21:00, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess I am the current caretaker, what are you looking to do Arstar? Mitro 16:55, December 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hopefully nobody would mind me editing this page as there has been no real activity on this page. Only going to add an Infobox. Imperium Guy 13:52, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

I re-wrote it, so that it actually made sense, and so that there was some spelling and grammar to it. But, good start.

Lordganon 20:05, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

I read it. Makes much more sense. Ta!! Imperium Guy 11:07, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

A Flag
Because of doomsday, would India's (U.I.P's) flag still be the same or would it have stars to show the amount of states in this loose federation. If it is the latter, could you have the flag in the style of the United States so instead of the red and white stripes, it would be orange white and green and the colour of the stars backround would be white and instead of the stars, it would be around 21 ashoka chakras. I'm asking you because I don't really know how to create flags. Ta!! Imperium Guy 16:00, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Likely, neither would be the case. Definitely not the second one, though.

First one, because it is a different government. The UIP, being entirely different, would more than likely want its own. The Second one, because it doesn't really represent India, and is an obvious edit of the American flag.

I'll think a bit and make one up.

Lordganon 18:31, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, okay. With the map, it looks awesome (the nationinfo box). Whai do you think its emblem be? Would it still be the 4 lions because the breakup wouldn't really effect the emblem, would it? Ta! Imperium Guy 21:04, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

I think the emblem would indeed stay the same. It, as a symbol, pre-dates the independence movements by a couple thousand years. Lordganon 21:27, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm... came up with this guy. Might be a touch busy, though.



Lordganon 01:53, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

I find that flag somewhat too busy, although the one I made is not much better, lol.

I came with this idea to emphasize the fact India's a loose federation now. I tried to make more of an EU-like flag and came up with this:



It's extremely makeshift and the circle is not good, but it emphasizes what I was trying to do. Assuming the UIP states remained as they are (I didn't find any change in either the India or the UIP page), I counted an approximate 16 states in the UIP, each represented with a dharmic wheel thingy. The middle one would represent the federal government or the wishes of unity or something else. Fed (talk) 03:02, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the India map is based on the state map for purposes of it being possible to actually get all the independent states put on it with real borders - don't hold the state lines as being there, as they wouldn't be. Plus, a number have been reconquered in the last couple years, and won't be members yet.

Elephants on mine can be removed very easily, as an fyi.

Lordganon 03:57, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

I knew there wouldn't be 16, but I wanted to place the maximum possible in the flag. Remember that my flag example is entirely makeshift and only uploaded to reflect my ideas :P. Fed (talk) 04:14, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Both flags could be incorperated into each other. In the centre you might have a bigger central ashoka chakra, the one LG designed, with the smaller ones around it to show the amount of states and there could be 4 smaller elephants as 2 on the extreme edges of the saffron strip and 2 on the extreme egdes of the green.As an after thought, now many states has India conquered as the elephants could be used to show the conquered states! :) :) Imperium Guy 08:38, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

That sounds.... quite bad, to be honest, and busier than a freeway in rush hour. And, we don't know how many states there is, or how many have been taken. No way they would want to brag about conquering, either. Lordganon 10:34, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Okay then. It did seem slightly complicated to make that type of flag. Do you have any other flag ideas other than the one above? Imperium Guy 21:00, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

More, all variations.

A version of the first flag, without the elephants:



The same flag, but with a cobra, peacock, elephant, and tiger - the four animals on Indian symbols - around the chakra:



Same, but with four elephants:



With tigers:



With cobras:



With peacocks:



And, the first of the ones I'm posting right now, but with the lotus a different color:



Think the one with the 4 elephants is the best, myself. Thoughts?

Lordganon 03:14, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

I would say it would be a draw between the tigers and elephants because both flags look kinda perfect. :) Imperium Guy 19:13, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Have to the elephants, then - the tiger one is, when you look at it bigger, not as good. Note that all the little bits around the chakra that stick out randomly are there for a reason.

As a comparison, blown up:

With elephants:



With tigers:



Lordganon 21:40, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Ok then, the elephant one. :D Imperium Guy 20:46, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

India's Nuclear Weapons
In reading the article I had a question. Would it be correct to presume the UIP would be responsible for the nuclear weapons India possessed at the time? Unless I missed it, I don't believe India deployed their weapons and although some might have been lost and or stolen during the nation's break-up, I would imagine they would still be around. Just curious on the subject given we were all discussing the status of the world's nuclear arsenal some time back.--Fxgentleman 16:41, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

India, while in possession of nukes, actually had no real way to deploy them until the 1990s, short of burying them. According to my research, what they did have was kept in a heavily-reinforced bunker complex near Bombay.

I think we can safely assume that the UIP has them safe. They weren't used, so they should still be there, too.

Lordganon 19:35, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Editing!
I will be putting the "new" UIP flag in the nationinfo box. Hopefully, nobody minds!! :D Imperium Guy 17:07, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Do you think that negotiations between the Sri Lankans and the UIP could result in Unification? I'm sure the Sri Lankans would want to regain some lost pride and if they join, they could retain their identity, like the other states. They could form an organization like ANZC, which is made up of Australia, New Zealend and other countries. Hope u consider this. Ta!! :D Imperium Guy 17:29, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

They didn't do it otl, they woudln't do it here. There's a massive difference between the two, and great distrust. Lordganon 07:42, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Oh. okay then. Imperium Guy 12:19, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Here's a map without the other countries. :D Imperium Guy 17:25, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

No way we use that, Imp. Kudos on the effort, but..... that looks really bad. Lordganon 00:21, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Oh well ;) The map could have different colours instead of the grey but I don't think that would change anything. No probs, the original map will not be changed!! :D Imperium Guy 09:01, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Political stance of India
So, what is India's stance in global politics now? Now before I didn't ask because it wasn't really touched upon, but considering the article has expanded a bit, and the recent bits in the newshour have led me to believe that India, although allied with the ANZC, has also established closer ties with the USSR again. Is the relationship cordial once more?

I ask because I sort of had this vision of starting up a sort of Asian Cooperation Organisation and thought if India was aboard with Siberia, that other non-socialist nations would join as well, like Korea or nations in Indochina.Vladivostok 21:38, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

India was already allied with the USSR before doomsday but now, after a strong government has taken the helm, trading relations have been re-established. I think they want as many allies as possile, because, after their economy is taken care of and war-torn areas have been re-built, they will try and conquer the break-aways.

The ACO might work, but I'll be a long shot. The only way Korea cfan trade with the USSR is by sea. :D Imperium Guy 21:47, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Imp, they were never allied. Only aligned in a few small ways.

I've let him do the Siberia bits, Vlad, because it will eventually counter the SAC threats, allowing more conquest.

I'd say that it never really quit being cordial.

But, as for your organization, the answer'd be no. This India is very much ANZC oriented. Not, as before, oriented towards the USSR.

Lordganon 08:45, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Imp: Well actually both Korea and the UIP can trade with Siberia by land, Korea has a direct border while India can trade through Tibet.

Ganon: Oh, I'm well aware of the alliance, I was just wondering if a regional council-esque organization could be formed, sort of like ASEAN, but with less clear economic goals. I do see how it would come across as another power grab by the USSR. I think I'm going to try and make the initial idea come from Thailand then, that would make things a bit more palatable for Asian nations.Vladivostok 09:12, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Not quite what I meant. I knew what you were saying, and India really has no reason to be involved - it'd hurt their moves against the states, you know? Lordganon 09:42, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Well then, I'll just leave this region alone for the time being, until the complicated situation is finally resolved.Vladivostok 10:44, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

If you see the Korea map on Korea (1983:DD), it shows that a bit of Korea is overrun by refugees. Most southern states will eventually fall. I don't think that could be possible with the East. Well, ok, only aligned with the USSR pre-dd. Just need to ask, what does Union Interim Parliament mean?? :D Imperium Guy 17:44, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well yes, that area in Korea caters to refugees but it is still under their control, so trading convoys could indeed come to Korea by land. To answer your question, the UIP is a provisional government formed in India which controls the majority of the country. It is simply a name for the government of the majority of India and the article is called like that to differentiate it from the India article, which gives a more general look to India as a whole.Vladivostok 20:51, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

More or less what Vlad said, though at this point it'd be a touch more than provisional - it's an actual republic, now.

Imp, you're looking at the 1983 map. Scroll down more and you'll see the modern one. Siberian convoys - and especially their ships - can easily arrive.

Lordganon 21:35, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami
With the boxing day Tsunami hitting the eastern coastline it is possible that UIP may have been able to take over some if not all of the break away states under the pretence of 'helping survivors'--Smoggy80 19:49, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Highly unlikely. It would have caused as much damage to the UIP as to the breakaway states. Not in a position to do that. Lordganon 07:20, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't get on what coastline would the UIP get hit though, except form the west. I think that although there is some coastline the UIP holds, it would not have been in the path of the tsunami. :D Imperium Guy 17:40, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Due to how the Tsunami propogated across the Indian Ocean, the south of the Indian subcontinant (on the east side) in partcular Tamil Nadu, got hit worse than the northern part of the east coast. So the UIP coast got hit lightly but the independant breakaway states got hit harder.

--Smoggy80 19:01, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

India has always been a hot spot of the world. If the breakaway states are hit as bad as you say then perhaps the UIP would take advantage of that fact and move in. This would obviously increase tensions with Pakistan, who might come to the aid of the breakaway states simply to prevent their old rival from getting any stronger. This of couse would cause issues for ANZC and SAC since they are both have interests in the region. Interesting... Mitro 19:29, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really an expert on 1983:dd, lol, but I do think that is quite possible. However, I think Pakistan would be more Khalistan oriented as in to look out. They might have the Southern Breakaway states at no.2 in their priorities list. BTW, thanks for the Tsunami info. This will be interesting, all we have to do is convince LG to allow the UIP to annex Tamil Nadu, or maybe not, lol. :D Imperium Guy 22:26, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Damage Maps show that the entire eastern coast got hit about the same. And, the UIP-held islands east of there would have been devastated. Western India, which is almost entirely controlled by the UIP, would also have been damaged.

Lordganon 08:47, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, ok fair point. :D Imperium Guy 14:04, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

City names
Would Bombay be called Bombay or would it have changed back from the English version of the name back to the Indian name Mumbai? same with Calcutta, would it not be Kolkata? I know the renaming took place in OTL after the DD date but I would've imagined it would happened in ATL as it was an ongoing process from 1947. --Smoggy80 16:25, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Probably not, actually. A large portion of the reason for the renaming(s) was both a backlash against the "relics" of colonial rule, and an upswing in nationalism.

Both are rather unlikely to happen here. Regional nationalists are very much so discredited, removing the biggest reason why it happened otl, from atl. The same applies to the other aspect.

Heck, the use of the more English-style names is a very good compromise between all of the various Indian languages and nationalities.

Really, the idea of the changes is far more recent than most people think - it's basis is after the PoD here.

Lordganon 01:24, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering about Mumbai, as the Goddess Mumba Devi is associated with the region for protecting the fishermen and the harbour city in Hinduism. The idea for changes in the other cities, I have to agree with LG, but I would like to differ from Mumbai. :D Imperium Guy 21:40, January 28, 2012 (UTC)



Bombay or Mumbai?? :P Imperium Guy 13:56, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, thought that was just a general comment, not a question.

Bombay.

Lordganon 23:41, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Ok. :D Imperium Guy 07:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Indo-Siberian Treaty of Friendship?
So, I was thinking that, in light of recent developments, maybe a formal treaty should be signed between the two, outlining some of their joint goals. Now most of this I took from a treaty between the Russians and the Chinese (2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Friendship), but I believe it is quite applicable here:
 * UIP:
 * The UIP wishes to develop and modernize its armed forces, much of which remain outdated. This process can be accelerated with Siberian military training and technology.
 * The UIP wants to obtain a stable, consistent and affordable level of fuel shipments, especially petroleum and coal. This goal can be better met with purchases and delivery of Siberian oil and coal.
 * The UIP wishes to attain support for its stance on all breakaway states.


 * USSR:
 * The USSR wants to find sources of employment for its skilled workforce.
 * The USSR wants to sell its military technology and expertise.
 * The USSR wants to sell its large reserves of petroleum and natural gas.

Of course, this is just a broad outline, I just want to know what you guys think about this. Vladivostok 16:32, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

I like it and would support it!! However the Government knows about India having huge coal diposites, so they might request to help industry being set up for coal mining and refining. :D Imperium Guy 22:55, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

....Imp, the UIP does't have much coal.

Overall, I like the overall setup. But it would have to include some support to try and counter the loss of SAC funds/goods/supplies that will happen when the reconquering starts again soon.

Lordganon 03:23, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I thought India had heaps of coal, oh well. I agree with LG on the Funds/goods/supplies thing. :D Imperium Guy 07:43, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad you guys like the overall idea. The coal part was my fault, didn't realize they had huge deposits. It says so on Wikipedia LG. The largest coal producing states in India (Orissa, Chhattisgarh and Jharkhand) are firmly under the control of the UIP based on your map. In any case, supplies and such could be arranged, I have no problems with that. But LG, isn't the main backer of the UIP the ANZC? I thought the SAC's allies were Pakistan and Tamil Nadu.

Also, I would like to propose an addendum to this agreement. The UIP would also agree to support Siberia politically in its stance on Siberia's "breakaway" states as well. As for when to set up this agreement, I propose that the leaders of the two countries meet face to face in India or Siberia to sign it in the following week, or the week after. Vladivostok 10:33, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

I got LG wrong on something, RARE!! LG would maybe say that India does not fully have the capacity to excavate coal, to which I would say that is why they are building factories and the government could ask to have the USSR supply them with the nessary equipment, with the USSR getting cut-price coal (if they want).

The thing with the SAC is that they sell their products to India as well as give them aid. That is what they have said they will cut off if the UIP of India tries to go reconquering. I also think India would support the USSR on its breakaways if the USSR did the same, although maybe only for Asia though. I would support the leaders of the two countries meeting as I think this would be a great way for the treaty to be discussed and amended. :D Imperium Guy 12:50, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Nowhere did I say that they didn't have any coal. Rather, what I've said several times is that they don't have much. Those states may have some coal supplies - which, minus the state names, I've acknowledged before - but it's far too little for the needs of India. Really, the deposits are pretty small, and not remotely viable for export.

Yes, the main backer of the UIP is the ANZC - they even have an alliance. But Imp's got it - the SAC is sending aid, too. So, while the SAC may be aligned with the breakaways, it does support the UIP after a fashion. It's also not allied with any of these remnants, unlike the ANZC and the UIP. Basically, unless Siberia replaces this, when the reclamation starts and the SAC cuts off aid, India will suffer a fair amount for it.

I figure that given the actions of the UIP, they more or less have to support the Siberians in that regard, to avoid being hypocrites. However, if ANZC policy in one regard or another differs to some of these states, the UIP would, given their alliance, support their moves.

Week after next, and I'd imagine in India.

Lordganon 15:16, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well, fair enough on the coal issue, although compared to other countries around the world they do have a sizeable amount of coal, it's just that their demand is way high. I believe that because of a sharp decrease in their population and territory, plus the after effects of Doomsday would relieve some stress. Now I'm not saying they would export the stuff, but would certainly breathe a bit easier.

Week after next is fine by me. I believe that energy-wise Siberia would be able to supply India nicely. It's a large market with an ever increasing demand so it is definitely a win for both sides. Vladivostok 16:19, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

I admit I don't have the stats at hand, but the subcontinent has been importing massive amounts of coal for something along the lines of a century, now, if not further back. They'd be making do with a lot less, but could definitely use a lot more, here. Lordganon 16:26, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Now would be a good time as any for the deal, with the USSR being able to use the funds against Imperial China for the deal to go through. :D Imperium Guy 20:40, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, I think this is the week we agreed upon in the end. And when you guys reach an agreement on what the stance of the UIP is towards the war, feel free to write up their reaction on the war page. Vladivostok 21:43, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I think the war is bad and I would support IC, don't know if the UIP could state that publically though. This is because the USSR are in Imperial territories and not in Soviet areas. :/ Imperium Guy 22:56, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

The UIP would more than likely support Siberia on some level. Lordganon 23:05, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Must say that I agree with LG and am a bit surprised by your view Imp. India and China didn't have a good relationship before Doomsday (although there were attempts to fix this), and I doubt things would be better after Doomsday with the varying states in former PRC territories. The UIP and IC have no direct contact and as far as I know, they never had it. IC, other than Taiwan stepping in with support, would not have very many friends, other than basically countries that harbor animosity towards the USSR. So you can see how I don't see the UIP falling into any of these categories. Vladivostok 10:27, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Vlad, LG this was my view, not the UIP's lol. All you have stated is correct, it was just me not wanting IC to fall. IC is not really a totally communist country so... :/ Imperium Guy 14:53, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Round 2
Aybody care for another round of Indo-Siberian treaties and trading? Just to add to the treaty and things. :D Imperium Guy 21:38, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

They're not going to be doing that often, Imp. The ones we've already done would only just now be starting to see any effects. Lordganon (talk) 22:38, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

North Eastern India Narco state
Northern India is great for growing opium. Although the India page said that Northeastern India fell under the control of Maoists and nationalists, is there a chance that one of the northeastern Indian states is secretly being run by an drug cartel? Goldwind1 (talk) 17:39, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

...Northwestern India is good for it. Not the rest, so much.

Overall, the idea doesn't really make any sense, Gold. No way is that plausible.

Lordganon (talk) 05:55, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

So What Now?
Seeing the successful conclusion of Operation Dissolution, what happens now? For the Hurricane that hit, we have the UIP do pretty well (India did very well in OTL) but the reconstruction will be more expensive. Labour from the north-east would be, for the first time, used in a large manner I would think, to help make costs lower and quicken up work.

What about the administration of the new territories? Are we seeing a North-Eastern "Zone" for the time being as the UIP begins its attempts to construction infra and pour in propaganda? And what about the southern breakaways? Are they finally going to look to come under one alliance banner? Or will their arrogance overpower their feeling of danger and the status quo remains?

And what about the effects of the Treaty of Friendship? It almost defo helped in Dissolution but what about the civil side of it, has it greatly impacted yet? And what about the pace of the old railroad construction project announced on the 16th of Jan in 2012 - almost two years old soon - did it manage to link up the cities by now? Seeing how corruption is almost non-existant, would that mean projects like this one are completed on time or sometimes even ahead of schedule?

And what about new construction projects? What is the status of New Mumbai in this TL - or New Bombay alternatively? Does it even exist? Or will construction on it only begun recently? And can we expect a construction boom to be ongoing here too?

And last but not least, what is the status on elections? I have not seen much mention of them, so could we use the chance to have elections in May 2014 as well? And what about Modi, PM-hopeful from the BJP in OTL? Does he still make Gujarat into a state which the rest of India tries to copy? Could he have kept his state stable and helped in grow in pre UIP times, perhaps earning him respect and the chance to go for PM post?

I know these are a lot of questions, but we really do need to get things moving again. Its time we moved past the recent snail's pace. And we really need those WCRB posts lol - I think I will begin to write them up soon. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:08, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * And seeing my first post on this page and comparing it to this one, I do see a slight difference in writing style. ;) [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:10, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that too!
 * Can the SAC go to war over this? *face lights up*.
 * With Fed's permission of course. And all.
 * 23:31, January 7, 2014 (UTC)