Talk:Axis vs Allies: Revolutions (Map Game)

France

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 1 - 3 = -2
 * Strength: 9 (+BC)= 13
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * 12:07
 * 1*2*0*7 = 14
 * 14/78 = 0.179487179
 * 0.179487179*3.14 = 563589742.09
 * Total: 26

Egypt

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 24

Result

 * Stalemate between French and Egyptian forces ensures.

Discussion

 * I believe I did right. I also didn't include France's Big Cheese Power, due to being invaded. Correct me if I'm wrong. Enclavehunter (talk) 14:28, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * You should add it in. However, I just made a new rule that if you are invading from far away (+3 or less), then you need at least a +5 advantage to take any land. Ideas? Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:35, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Archive
First archive :) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:23, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

For

 * Korea
 * America
 * Persia
 * France
 * UK

Against

 * Siam (even if UN is created, the Siamese have no interest in joining it)
 * Japan we propose a reformed League of Nations and that peace keeping be carried out by each independent alliance system.
 * Soviet Union (We have no interest in another organization)
 * Turkey (Never)

Discussion
@Japan: That's what the new UN is. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:37, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Implausibilty
Hey guys. I've seen a few bits of pieces that I conisder implausible. First, the Italians troops and equipment numbers. I don't know how Italy could muster that number of bombers and aircraft, unless they were drafted from Libya. Second, the Facists France. I don't think the French people would allow for their government to become fascist, espically after two fascit nations attacked them. Third, the United States and its "war" against the Axis. I don't understand why the United States attacked the Soviet Union for no reason. The Reds did nothing to the United States, and the United States is still in isolation, and the only reason they went to war in OTL was the Attack on Pearl Harbor, which never occured. Fourth, why would the Americans waste soldiers and their fleet invading eastern Siberia, espically with nothing there except natives and deadly winters. There's a few others, but these are the main things I would like to talk about. Enclavehunter (talk) 01:58, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

All of the non-USA stuff is true. Now I'll talk about the US stuff.

A: America got into this because its economy and trade interests are way too much at risk.

B: Speak for yourself. You're just defending your own nation. When I say Eastern Siberia, per se it is more like Soviet Manchuria and the like. Vladivostok-ish and norht of that. Then if can get Japan in on this and convince Hitler to come to peace talkk, my efforts will bear fruit.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:02, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Still. We didn't do nothing to the United States, and here you are coming on our doorstep attacking the Soviet Union with no casus beli or however you say it. In OTL, if every nation went to war because their economic and trade interests were threaten, the world would be a warzone each and every day. Enclavehunter (talk) 02:06, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

No. I attacked your allies. So then, you will attack me. I have to think ahead and prevent that, so I have to invade you. Simple logical reasoning. AKA chain of events.

And btw: with France on the deathbed and Britain guarding the door, I gotta step in. Anywho, I ahve business to discuss with Hitler. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:13, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

United States

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 3 + 3 + (BC) = 9
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 3
 * 00:36
 * 0*0*3*6 = 18
 * 18/6803 = 0.002.......
 * 0.00264589151*pi = 0.00831................
 * Total: 15

Soviet Union

 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: Soviet Union (L): 4
 * Motive: 7
 * Chance: 5
 * 00:36
 * 0*0*3*6 = 18
 * 18/5,212 = 0.03448275862
 * 0.03448275862*3.14 = 0.01.....
 * Total: 22

Result

 * Marginal Soviet victory, but I don't know A: Who the Soviets were fighting (after all, America's not there yet), and B: Why the Soviet Army is in Kamchatka and Samoyeda. I'm surprised the Soviets didn't get a 1 for capital distance.

Discussion

 * Another attempt for an algorithm. I didn't know what to put for my UTC Time, so I put the time Scraw (United States) declared war on the Axis and Soviet Union. I did this, because I assume ounce nation declares war, then the defending nation is at war with the attacker. Pita, Correct if I'm wrong. Enclavehunter (talk) 05:08, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

You're pretty much right, and it should be with heavy casualties as well. IMO, we should retcon the last two turns (France suddenly converts to Axis, USA invades USSR), but retcons do kill games... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:00, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

i think a retcon would be good, despite what it will do to the game or atleast make an event that creates a widespread resistence movement in france along with resistence movements throughout the occupied regions (including occupied china) that way we can finally make a guerilla warfare algorithm (i really want one XD) Nkbeeching

Can we all just back up for a second? I think we should get a few things clear. First of all, I did not even make landfall in the USSR yet, so why is there an algorithm? Secondly, this is part of the greater war with the Axis Powers, not America's lone vendetta against the USSR. Thirdly, and more importantly, there is no Franco-German War, Franco-Italian War, Anglo-German War, Italo-Egyptian War, these are all part of one master war AKA WWII. I think we should have a mega coalition algorithm that we update as time goes on. So fourthly, and indirectly we're still on my third point, a lot of stuff if going wrong here. So me invading the USSR is far from imaplusible when I'm at war with the Axis. Doesn't it make sense to attack the nearest Axis nation when you're warring with the whole alliance? And I'm trying to negotiate with Hitler but Imp doesn't want to come down to the table. So yeah. And finally, let's not retcon the gfame. Let's just pretened that France is still Allied. The END of A Tale of Two Wars.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:30, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with a retcon. Enclavehunter (talk) 02:48, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet motive is not 10 because I do not intend on conquering 2 million+ sq mi of land, for Genghis Khan I am not, though Genghis Khan, wish I was. And location goes by capital, so..... And you should use the pi button on the calulator, not 3.14. And my edit ount was really 6791 when I made the war declaration against the Axis. Allow some corrections here. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:05, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

That's why I agree with the retcon. Appearently alot stuff has happened (France turning Fascits, me and scraw's arguments). I apoligize for what the argument has brought, and I'll just watch and see how the war turns out. I'm done arguing. Enclavehunter (talk) 03:31, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

For

 * Enclavehunter
 * Nkbeeching
 * Stewdio333
 * Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe)
 * -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 2012年9月23日 08:10:57 (JST)

Discussion
Seeing as I can see the argument going on and on. I decided to put up a vote. Enclavehunter (talk) 02:53, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Before I vote, what is the extent of the retcon? Stewdio333 (talk) 03:34, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

That's up to the mods. I'm just a simple player. Enclavehunter (talk) 03:38, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Two turns. -              - Anyways, I propose we ignore the implausogasms and go on acting as if they never happened, cause retcons ruin games. RRG, Golden Rule of Map Games. -              -  Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:47, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, sounds good, though I'm just another simple player. Stewdio333 (talk) 05:35, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Retcon passed, the game is retconed to 1941.5. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:08, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sino-Japanese War 1941.5
According to the algorithm, Japan gets 21.5% of Chinese land to split with Siam. This is 2306 pixels, which leads to the collapse of China. All of Eastern China is taken by Japan/Siam. Western China, however, is not taken.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:05, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Intervention in East Indies
I think we can safely say East Indies breaks apart from the Dutch and Japan takes over, as in OTL. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:39, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Argentina

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L): 4
 * Greater Industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 0
 * 19:52
 * 1*9*5*2= 90
 * 90/202= 0.44554455445
 * 0.44554455445*3.14= 1.39900990099
 * Total: 20

Chile

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Total: 21

Result

 * Argentina is pushed out of Chilean territory

Second Peruvian-Brazilian war ( The andean war)
(((34/(29+34))*2)-1,)*(1-1/(4))= 0.05952380952

According to the algorithm, Brazil gets 5.95% of Peruvian land, or 108 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:49, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

UK
Guys, I announced like 10-15 days before today that I'm NOT coming back, get a new UK player.

The Royal Guns (talk) 00:30, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, i will play Great Britan because we cant have ww2 without the UK

Warman555 8:02, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

No, we cannot have a player with two nations. I will mod the nation until we can have a new player take over. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:57, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Can i play Great Britan if i give up France? Warman555

Nation-switching in the middle of games is not generally encouraged, although you are allowed. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:19, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Plausibility
just wanted to know if what ive been doing with japan was ok and plausible. Nkbeeching

Pretty good, but just know you will have to pull out of China in the next 10-15 years. It's impossible to hold that much land with that many people for too long. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:20, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet Union (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Soviet Union (L), France (M, BC), Great Britain (M, BC): 18
 * Greater population: 3
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * 12:56
 * 1*2*5*6= 60
 * 60/5230= 0.01147227533
 * 0.01147227533*3.14= 0.03602294455
 * Total: 36

Germany (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Germany (L), Italy (M), Spain (M): 10
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 31

Result
Crushing Soviet victory, the Soviet union receives 4.54% of German-Polish land.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 13:02, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Result
Too tired to post everything, but Brazil gets 2.73% of Uruguayan land, or 8 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:03, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Invading Desert: -3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * 1*1*2*8= 16
 * 16/880= 0.181818181
 * 0.18181818*pi= 0.057119866
 * Total: 12

France (Defendant)

 * Location: 3
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Defending Desert: +3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 27

Result:
French forces in Syria devastate Turkish forces sent against it, and take 9.62% of Turkish land, or 127 pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 00:45
 * 1*1*4*5= 20
 * 20/880= 0.022727273
 * 0.022727273*pi= 0.071399833
 * Total: 29

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Total: 24

Result:
Turkey may take 4.72% of Grecian land, or 11 pixels.

Turkish-British War
I didn't do this one because I think you have enough on your plate lol... this war would have cost you approximately 40-45 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:56, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Then I'll keep my head down. I like my land too much. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 14:54, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Lesser Antilles
Under the North America header, is the Lesser Antilles a single playable nation, or is each island (group) a nation? Also, it's Antigua and Barbuda (Barbados is far to the south and not part of that OTL nation). Also, there appears to be an error with the indent by the Greater Antilles. 77topaz (talk) 08:48, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

They are all single nations per island, not controlling the entire chain. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 09:42, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

What nations should be on the list? The current OTL ones? 77topaz (talk) 11:00, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

The British currently rule all of the Lesser Antilles. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:01, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * 19:26
 * 1*9*2*6= 108
 * 108/892= 0.1210762331838565
 * 0.1210762331838565*pi= 0.3801793721973094
 * Total: 29

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 27

Result:
Turkey may take (Pita help) of Grecian land, or (I'z don't know) pixels.
 * 2.98% of Grecian land, or 7 pixels. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:09, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Pita... ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 00:33, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

American Peace Treaty for World War II
Aside from the Soviet proposal, the United States proposes more. That is all.
 * After the war, a United Nations organizations will be formed. We will make it stronger than the LoN, and we will use it, and we will maintain world peace with it.
 * The Permanent Security Council will have the following six members: the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, France, and another nation that will be chosen. (Most likely Turkey or none.)
 * The Axis Powers shall be divided and occupied.
 * For Germany, we shall follow the Soviet proposal.
 * For Italy, southern Italy (the Neapolitan area) and Siciliy will be formed into the Republic of Naples. Northern Italy shall be occupied by the British and the French.
 * For Turkey, the OTL borders will be placed.
 * The Japanese shall not suffer much; they will maintain Indochina, Manchuria, Taiwan, and the present territory.
 * That is all.
 * Seeing the toll of the destruction of Frankfurt, the use of nukes will be limited. We'll talk bout that later.
 * German Poland gains independence, taking East Prussia with it.

Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 19:00, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Japan accepts the proposal but requests that the treaty stipulate that all members of the E.A.T.S.P. are aknowledged as independent states with in the E.A.T.S.P. sphere of influence it is also requested that the allies accept that Japan deal with the peace treaty with China as it is a seperate conflict from the great war that happened in the West. over the rest of the stipulations Japan has no complaints.
 * Empire of Japan
 * Republic of Korea
 * Kingdom of Siam
 * Kingdom of Indochina
 * Republic of Indonesia
 * Empire of Manchuria

only one thing what about the Algorythm for the entire war ? Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:50, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

There wasn't- more of several different for the different fronts. If we just did the entire war, it would get very, very confusing on who gets what, etc. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:53, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey had no active part in the war. We just kept to ourselves really, and didn't voice anything on the European fighting. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 20:55, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Corrected Finalized Treaty

 * After the war, a United Nations organizations will be formed. We will make it stronger than the LoN, and we will use it, and we will maintain world peace with it.
 * The Permanent Security Council will have the following members: the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, and France
 * The Axis Powers shall be divided and occupied.
 * For Germany, we shall follow the Soviet proposal.
 * The Soviets shall occupy what territory they have control over currently. The Americans will occupy the remainder.
 * For Italy, the reparations will also be enforced for 20 years (as with Germany) and all colonies will be released.
 * The Japanese shall be allowed to develop their own treaty with China and will be allowed to retain Indochina and the East Indies.
 * Seeing the toll of the destruction of Frankfurt, the use of nukes will be limited. The conference between the leaders of the USA, the USSR, and the Empire of Japan shall be held to discuss this.
 * German Poland gains independence, taking East Prussia with it.
 * No nation involved in this war will be allowed to wage war against a nation which was its enemy during the war. All active campaigns shall not be resumed. Militarization of the defeated nations shall be limited for twenty years.

Signatories

 * President Henry A. Wallace of the United States [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 06:07, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Emperor Hirohito
 * President of the First Republic of Korea, Kim Il-Sung
 * Premier of the Soviet Union, Leon Trotsky Enclavehunter (talk) 04:12, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Emperor Ananda Mahidol, Eight Monarch, & Empress Suthawan Banomyong of the Kingdom of Thailand (Thailand still refuses to join the UN however) -Kogasa [[Image:Symbol of Natori, Miyagi.png|23px|border]][[Image:宮城県.png|23px|border]][[Image:Flag of Japan.png|23px|border]] 2012年10月16日 18:14:42 (JST)

Discussion

 * It is way to harsh on Italy, we surrendered before you even invaded, we will not be divided, we will give up Libya, Eritrea, and Somalia, but not let ou divide the homeland.
 * It can be harsher, and it is harsher on Germany. Read the damn game, Dean. That's why we have this problem. The Italian republican government was created by the ALLIES, and freed by the ALLIES. Technically it's a puppet.
 * no, i was NEVER invaded!!! And my colonies are part of the federation

Argentina (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 27

Chile (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Total: 21

Result
Argentina takes 6.25% of Chilean land, or 68 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:44, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * 23:11
 * 2*3*1*1= 1
 * 1/908= 0.0011013215859031
 * 0.0011013215859031*pi= 0.0034581497797357
 * Total: 35

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Total: 29

Result:
Turkey may take 7.81% of Persian land, or 207 pixels.

Brazil
Anyone else think Brazil should be penalized for having four different wars at the same time? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:13, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Ever hear that great minds think alike? Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 04:04, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

May i point out that the only current wars i held are with Suriname, and peru, and support to argentina is nothing more than what america was doing with britain prior to their entrance in the war In OTL, so counting Chile 3, without it Just 2 wars Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:46, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

You've had wars with Columbia, Peru, and Surinam in the last 5 years. Brazilian people are not the most warlike people, and besides, there is a big difference between America and Brazil. Although I think their invasion of Mexico is slightly implausible since they are in isolation. But even that has a historical precedent, during the Mexican-American War. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:13, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

my point its not thay im like america and the last war with colombia would have been in 1943 as i started in 1940 with venezuela, so we could discard that one, in american case i was stating that i was only aiding argentina's war with chile, nothing asb, but the only reason i have continued my war against peru is because i only want a coast line in the pacific to become a greater economic power in southern america, though i understand the penalization

War Weariness
Anyone think we should add war weariness in wars starting in the 1960s or so? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe)

Kinda depends on who fought which wars, how long, how hard (ex: how much money, troops, resources, etc) and other stuff. Too many factors. I say nay. Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 04:12, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Nay. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:24, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * 13:25
 * 1*3*2*5= 30
 * 30/914= 0.0328227571115974
 * 0.0328227571115974*pi= 0.1030634573304158
 * Total: 29

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 25

Result:
Turkey may take 4.72% of Persian land, or 82 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:27, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

United Nations
Who would join? Also, Enclavehunter, you no invade the Balkans? :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:00, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Join

 * Korea
 * United States
 * Great Britain
 * France
 * Mexico
 * Persia
 * Soviet Union

Not Join

 * Siam

Chile (defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: 24

Argentina (invader)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 7
 * 20:41
 * 2*0*4*1= 0
 * 0/241= 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 25

Result:
Argentina may take ?% of Chilean land, or ? pixels.

United Nations (Axis vs Allies: Revolutions Map Game)
Take a look! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:33, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 03:56
 * 0*3*5*6= 0
 * 0/918= 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 33

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Total: 22

Result:
Turkey may take 10% of Persian land, or 236 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:33, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (L): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * 13:25
 * 0*3*5*6= 0
 * 0/918= 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 32

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 28

Result:
Turkey may take ?% of Greek land, or ? pixels.

Greece is already fully under Turkish control. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:24, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Excellent. >:) ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:20, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Vassals
Is it possible to vassalise or form confederations in this game? 77topaz (talk) 04:11, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

You can have rump states that are under your control. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:23, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * 18:59
 * 1*8*5*9= 360
 * 360/939= 0.3833865814696486
 * 0.3833865814696486*pi= 1.203833865814696
 * Total: 31

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 6
 * Total: 27

Result:
Turkey may take 11.74% of Syrian land, or ? pixels.

Discussion
Turkey is invading Latakia in western Syria which has no desert by the way. And Pita, could you tell me how the land/pixel equation thing works? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 00:14, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Basically what you do is take ((y/(z+y))*2)-1, where "y" is the score of the winner and "z" is the score of the loser. Then take (p)*(1-1/(2)), "p" is the above equation. You should get a percentage. Also, for the pixels, I use a program to count the pixels for a country- with that, I get the percent, round it up, and post it. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:55, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Awesome. What kind of program do you use? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 01:20, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * And I take it 11.74% is the correct answer? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 01:34, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, 11.74% is right. I use ImageJ, which is pretty confusing to use though. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 09:21, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks for the math lesson, it'll help for the future.... ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:30, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Guys im not mod but there shuold be a rule about areas with mountins heres what i got invading mountin -3 defending mountin 3 Warman555

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 6
 * Chance: 7
 * 18:59
 * 1*8*5*9= 360
 * 360/941= 0.4112646121147715
 * 0.4112646121147715*pi= 1.291370882040383
 * Total: 28

Bulguria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Bulguria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 26

Result:
Turkey may take 1.32 % of Bulgarian land, or 3 pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 17:33
 * 1*7*3*3= 63
 * 63/961= 0.0655567117585848
 * 0.0655567117585848*pi= 0.014047866805411
 * Total: 29

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 26

Result:
Turkey may take 11.91% of Syrian land, or 33 pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 8
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Invading desert -3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 6
 * 17:33
 * 1*7*3*3= 63
 * 63/961= 0.0655567117585848
 * 0.0655567117585848*pi= 0.014047866805411
 * Total: 27

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L), UK (M+BC), US (S): 13
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 34

Result:
Turkey is pushed out of current Persian land by 2.87%, losing 60 pixels. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:26, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Pita, I got "12.56" as the result, and have no idea how to work that. Solve the equation, and you shall recieve the antidote. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:44, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

um you do realize that persia is now backed by several world powers right.

And? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:47, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

also persia and bulgaria are my allies you should add that to the next bulgarian and the current persian algorythm Sine dei gloriem (talk) 04:37, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

The USSR is my ally in the conflicts, and the UK can't be counted since it doesn't have the compacity to fight another nation (it was nuked into the stone ages correct?). ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:46, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

the uk was never hit by nuclear weaponsd i think

the UK was never hit by nuclear weapons Warman555

It was threatened in circa 1950-1951, but not hit 90.244.91.81 15:46, October 26, 2012 (UTC)(Mike A).

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * 02:00
 * 0*2*0*0= 0
 * 0/966 0
 * 0*pi= 0
 * Total: 25

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Total: 24

Result:
Turkey may take 12.30% of Syrian land, or ? pixels.

Discussion
This is for the last push that I didn't do. I was tired. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 05:01, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * 23:51
 * 2*3*5*1= 30
 * 63/974= 0.0308008213552361
 * 0.0308008213552361*pi= 0.0967145790554415
 * Total: 29

Syria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Syria (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Total: 22

Result:
Turkey may take 11.00% of Syrian land, or ? pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 9
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * 23:51
 * 2*3*5*1= 30
 * 63/974= 0.0308008213552361
 * 0.0308008213552361*pi= 0.0967145790554415
 * Total: 37

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Persia (L), UK (L): 8
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 5
 * Total: 30

Result:
Turkey may take 11.37% of Persian land, or ? pixels.

Decolonization
An interesting topic that I felt important to bring up is that of decolonization. France and Britain lost huge chunks of their empires between 1950-1960. In the order of their independence (from 1956-onwards): For the Brits–Sudan (1956), Ghana (1957), Nigeria (1960), Somliland (1960), Cameroon (1960), Somalia (1960), Sierra Leone (1961), Tanzania (1961), Uganda (1962), Zanzibar (1963), Kenya (1963), Malazwi (1964), Zambia (1964), Gambia (1965), Botswana (1966), Lesotho (1966), Swaziland (1968). And for the French–Everything by 1960. Liberate Africa comrades, and let the Cold War begin! ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 20:12, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

OTL France's loss were Central African Republic (1960), The Republic of Congo (1960), Gabon (1960), Madagascar (1960), French (south) Cameroon (1960), Senegal (1960), Niger (1960), Burkina Faso (1960), Chad (1960), Mauritania (1960), Morocco (1958), Algeria (1962), Tunisia (1956), Mali (1960), Comoros (1975), Guinea (1958), Côte d'Ivoire (1960) and Benin (1960). (St. Helena island remained British and both the islands of Reion, Europa and Mayotte remained French).The River Nile-2 (talk) 04:02, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Portugal lost theres in 1975.90.244.89.157 20:03, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I"ve been trying to keep up with the time and decolonization. I've already taken away Libya, South Africa, etc. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 12:46, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 9
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 4
 * 14:22
 * 1*4*2*2= 16
 * 16/994= 0.0160965794768612
 * 0.0160965794768612*pi= 0.0505432595573441
 * Total: 34

Lebanon (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Lebanon (M): 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 27

Result:
Turkey may take 11.26% of Lebanese land, or ? pixels.

Argentina (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Argentina (L), United States (S), Soviet Union (S): 14
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * 19:45
 * 1*9*4*5= 180
 * 180/266= 0.6766917293233083
 * 0.6766917293233083*pi= 2.124812030075188
 * Total: 39

Chile (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Chile (M): 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 22

Result:
Argentina may take 9.8s% of Chilean land, or ? pixels.

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L), Soviet Union (S): 9
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 3
 * 15:29
 * 1*5*2*9= 90
 * 90/1002= 0.0898203592814371
 * 0.0898203592814371*pi= 0.2820359281437126
 * Total: 28

Iraq (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Iraq (M): 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 28

Result:
Turkey may take 11.21% of Iraqi land, or ? pixels.

You are forgeting to defending desert 3 invding desert -3 Warman555

Northern Iraq is hilly and made up of grasslands. Southern Iraq (I mean very far to the south) is desert. My forces are aren't there. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:28, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Possible Return
I may be returning to AltHistory Wiki, though not as massive (I plan to be only on this Map Game and Principia Moderni II), and I'm thinking of playing as Hungary again. Can anybody tell me the status of my dear country? Stewdio333 (talk) 10:46, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet vassal state :( PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:15, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, so much for Hungary. Can I still play as the country, or should I pick another one. (Do note that I'm not sure if I'll be able to return? It's just in case.) Stewdio333 (talk) 02:39, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

You can still play. You can secretly mobilize and modernize your army and eventually break free of the USSR. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:03, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Turkey (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 6
 * Invading desert: -3
 * Chance: 9


 * 12:27
 * 1*2*2*7= 28
 * 28/1016= 0.0275590551181102
 * 0.0275590551181102*pi= 0.0865354330708661
 * Total: 28

Egypt (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Egypt (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Home is desert: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 26

Result:
Turkey may take 12.11% of Egyptian land, or ? pixels.

' STOP BEING IMPLAUSIBLE. '

You can't tell me not to be unplausible if I'm following the rules exactly as they are. Turkey has a large military, it is capable of invading Egypt, and I have a reason for invading Egypt. And please, explain to me the implausibilty of invading Egypt. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:31, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Wikibreak
I'm currently on a semi-wikibreak where I'm only posting on AvAre so please bear with me on the maps and such. Can anyone else step up and do the maps and algorithms? I am currently being bombarded with homework... :( PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:00, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

WW3
anyone up for a third world war im planning on bringing about events that could lead to ww3 or atleast to a great war in all of asia. Nkbeeching

Go on... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 19:29, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm listening! Enclavehunter (talk) 19:33, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Hello how do I join this? I would like to be Leader of Norway.

Thank you in advance.AltHistoryGeek (talk) 00:04, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Just go to the Europe section in the Nations section and sign your name next to Norway. Then start posting stuff for your country. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:48, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

What's happened since?
Well I was playing as Persia since the beginning of the game, then due to unforseen circumstances I left AltWiki all together. I decided, having more spare time now to check how all has been doing. So I saw the map, Turkey, pretty expansive, Japan looks impressive, anyways that's not the point. I know there's a possible war brewing between Turkey against the US and Japan, but anybody tell me a brief paragraph of how things are now? Hell they don't even have to be complete sentences, so yeha, thanks. Ianian58 (talk) 00:28, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

World War II ended with Germany and Italy being steamrolled by the USSR and the USA. Most colonial empires are gone, Brazil and Argentina have conquered most of South America, the USSR has most of the Baltics and a lot of Easter Europe, Turkey has taken over most of the Middle East and the Balkans, Japan and the EATSP has taken over most of East Asia, and we're in a cold war with nukes (USA, USSR, Japan, Korea, Italy, Turkey). Yeah. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:32, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Italy? Deyfrek? Just because Italy has many a nuke does not mean it is in the Cold War. And Korea is really in the Japanese sphere of influence; not really on its own combatant side. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:43, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm listing the countries that have nukes. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:51, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict. Goes by capital city.
 * At the war: 5
 * Next to the war: 4
 * Close to the war: 3
 * Far from the war: 2
 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Home is island: Defenders +4, attackers -4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3
 * Every nation nonmilitarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 2
 * Side with greater population: 3
 * Side with greater industry: 3
 * "Big Cheese" Advantage (USA, Soviet Union, UK, Japan, Turkey for now):+4

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * Religious: 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3

"Special" Status
In many points in history, a revolution (Hitler, Napoleon) has led to massive military successes at first. However, such revolutions have also led to massive failures (Mussolini, the South in Amer. Civil War). If a revolution has taken place in your nation in the past 7 years into an autocratic dictatorship, you are eligible for a bonus in military. If all of the above, +10.
 * If revolution to autocratic dictatorship in past 7 years.
 * If you get 6 or more in chance.

Morale

 * Recent military defeats (battles): -2
 * Extermination of conquered peoples: -3
 * Motive is less than 6: -1

Nuclear weapons

 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on capital city: +10 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +2 per additional nuke for belligerent, -2 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on major city: +7 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +1.5 per additional nuke for belligerent, -1.5 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Strategic nuclear weapon use on minor city: +5 for belligerent, -10 for defendant (of nuke). +1 per additional nuke for belligerent, -1 per additional nuke for defendant.
 * Tactical nuclear weapon use: +5 for first tactical nuke, +.5 per additional nuke.
 * Nuclear weapon use for belligerent: -5 morale this turn and next turn.
 * Nuclear weapon use for defendant: -2.5 morale this turn only.

Economic situation

 * Great economy: +5
 * Fair economy: +3
 * Average economy: +1
 * Poor economy: -3
 * Crashing economy: -5

Chance
Take the UTC time at that moment. (ie 21:32). Then, multiply those numbers. Any zeros count as one. Then take the declaring user's edit count. Then divide the UTC number by the edit count. Multiply that number by 3.14 Take the fifth digit in the number, and there's your chance. Then, for the opponent, take the eighth number. And there you go!
 * 2*1*3*2= 8
 * ie 2831.
 * 8/2831= 0.00282585658
 * 0.00282585658*3.14= 0.00887318966
 * 7
 * 8

Result
Take (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where "x" is the amount of years the war goes on and "p" is the result of the equation ((y/(z+y))*2)-1, where "y" is the score of the winner and "z" is the score of the loser. If conquered land has been nuked, cut conquest in half.

China (Belligerent)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical advantage: Attacker (+1), Desert (-3)= -3
 * Strength: China (L+4), Manchuria (M+3), Japan (M+3, BC+4), India (M+3), Mexico (M+3), Madagascar (S+2)= +22
 * Greater population: +3
 * Greater industry: +3
 * Motive: Economic (+3)
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1
 * Strategic nuclear weapons: Moscow (+10), Leningrad (+7), Vladivostok (+1.5), and Caucasus oil fields (+1.5): +20
 * Tactical nuclear weapons: 11 tactical nukes used on front= +10
 * Morale due to nukes: -5
 * Economy: -7.5
 * Chance: +5
 * 21:10
 * 2*1*1*1= 2
 * 2/1932= 0.00103519668
 * 0.00103519668*pi= 0.00325216628
 * Total: 43.5

Russia (Defendant)

 * Location: +2
 * Tactical advantage: Defender (+2), Desert (+3)= +5
 * Strength: Russia (L+4, BC+4), Finland (M+3), Chile (M+3), Egypt (M+3), Poland (M+3, BC +3), Korea (M+3), Germany (S+2), Spain (S+2), United States (M+3, BC+4)= +34
 * Motive: Survival (+10)= +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: +0
 * Strategic nuclear weapons: Beijing (+10), Shanghai (+7), Tianjin (+1.5), Shenzhen (+1.5), Hong Kong (+1.5)= +21.5
 * Tactical nuclear weapons: 7 tactical nukes used on front= +6
 * Morale due to nukes: -7.5
 * Economy: -3
 * Chance: 0.00325216628
 * Total: 74

Result
Russia takes 6.489361702% of radioactive Chinese land, or 232 pixels. Huge casualties on both sides.

Discussion
Well this took a while XD PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:24, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Nice job. Seems a lot fairer than the last algorithim. I look forward to testing it in the near future. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:34, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:32, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

sencod Franco-Italin war

France (belgrent

loctiation + 4

motive+ 5

tacticol advantge+ 1

Greater populatiom+ 3

Greater indistruy+ 3

Econamy+3

stregth  france L(3) USA(BC+4) UK(BC+4) Spain(3)Netherlands(+3) Canada(+3)

specail satus :no

Morale +1

Chance 8

9:59

9*5*9=

405/1968

total 50

Italy (dendent)

location+  5

tactil advantgde + 2

econamy 0

motive + 10

sgreagth Italy (L+3) turkey (BC +4)

specail status:no

morale-2

chance+ 9

Total:31

reslut France can take 18:34% of italin land or ? pixels owch

decissuion

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker (+1), Desert (-3)
 * Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Hungary (M +3), Bulgaria (M +3). Greece (M +3), East Arabia (M +3), Serbia (M +3), Croatia (M +3), Albania (M +3), West Persia (M +3), North Syria & Lebanon (M +3)
 * Greater population: +3
 * Greater industry: +3
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1
 * Economy: +3
 * Chance: +6
 * 22:42
 * 2*2*4*2=32
 * 32/1173=0.0272804774083546
 * 0.0272804774083546*pi=0.0856879795396419
 * Total: 64

Persia (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: Defender (+2), Desert (+3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -2
 * Economy: -3
 * Total: 15

Result
Turkey takes 31.012658227% of Persian land. This is enough to topple the current government (>30%).

Disscussion
I'm thumped Pita. I totally forgot how to handle the result bit. :/ Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:32, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

Antarctica
What is happening? I would like to know so that the North Republic can act. Where is the land we are promised? I actualy mean where. I do not know which bit we own! Thanks David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 17:09, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

take the portion that was offered to japan. aslong as i have rights to do experiments in that land im fine, its an expensive idea that would just be a burden to japan. We are planning on taking as much of space anyways so. Nkbeeching

Argument from 1970.0

 * Do you read what you write? That is incredibly ridiculous and implausible, end of story. On an unrelated note, I would try not to spend money (you're spending like the US, which is not possible for you) and save it instead because the UN is sanctioning you.
 * First, do you read what you right? I don't think you get the fact that 99% percent of the people here canread your mind. Say something else other than its implausible, or I swear I will demand the admins get another mod who will. Second, I'm allied to the Soviets, Eastern Europe, and most of the Muslim world, and a control some of the most power nations in the Middle East. I control two-thirds of the world's accessible oil supply, and could cripple the Western World at my leisure as OPEC did in the OTL 1970s. Brag all you want about America, but you still bow to oil.
 * You forgot that the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe can supply the Turks with food, military equipment, medicine, and other important objects to continue the war effort, and thus the freezing of bank accounts and sanctions are useless. It's like OTL relations between China and North Korea. So sanctions are pratically useless.
 * Different feller here, those were AP and Viva, I be Scrawdad. The USSR is frobidden to do anything with you right now because of UN sanctions. So unless they decide to boycott the UN, there ain't much you can do. Second, Kemal was explicitly exiled from Turkey, so you can't say that he escaped justice or anything. Play along with it. The Soviets did it too, 15 years ago. Third, this disease would also eventually spread to your people, so that's ridiculous. Fourth, yo are hardly allied to anyone, you just conquered and now own the Balkans, who hate the Turks (see the Ottoman genocides of the 1800s) as well as Persia, which is and was Shia and hates Turkey as much as possible (see the Turk-Persian Wars, also of the 1800s). The Soviets are implausibly dealing with the Turks (see Russo-Ottoman relations during the 19th and 20th centuries), but I let that slide during my tenure as the only active mod. So there. 
 * First, this be the 1970s, not the 1800s, and I'm the Republic of Turkey, not the Ottoman Empire. Second, this "disease" isn't a disease, but a controlled drug made to look like the bubonic plague. Third, sanctions don't mean diddly squat unless the two nations choose to abide by them. Iran and China are still trading together, and North Korea is still launching their missiles. Nations ignore sanctions all the freakin' time. That's life, get over it. I wiped out much of the Persian military might, so if the people want to complain, they can do it with a gun shoved down their throat. Albania, Yugoslavia, and Hungary were allied to my nation during the WWII piece in the game, so I built up that relation, and they got over it. Just like American and Japanese got over Pearl Harbor. Finally, your the one saying I'm not allied to anyone despite the fact that I'm the one building the alliances with Hungary, Romania, the Soviet Union, Korea, and at times the North Republic. And I have the Middle Eastern Defense Coalition (the Balkan States, Persia, Ethiopia, and Somalia), as my alliance, plus I'm in the CIS. So if they want to trade with me, they can, and the UN can do little to stop it unless the United States wishes to fight the Middle East, Soviet Union, East Africa, and Eastern Europe and lose. I still control 70% of the world's oil, and I can strangle you like OPEC did and get away with it. Your tanks still need fuel. ~Viva
 * Seventhly, it not be mattering that this be 1970, your actions show that you haven't improved from the Ottomans. If you did some frakking reading up about the countries you're playing, you'd know that Balkans ('specially Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania, Herzegovina) still ain't gotten over the genocides. Eighth, you ain't no Republic. You're a god damn empire, similar to the US. Ninthly, this drug can still affect your population. Do you know about the baby making cycle? It could easily be transferred between partners. Tenth, the only ones who won't follow in with the sanctions are the Soviets and you. So yeah. And yeah, people will protest, but if you do shove a gun down their throat(s), you'll just show everyone else that they were right not to like you. Eleventh, Albania, Yugoslavia, and Hungary should never have been allied to you, that would be a DeanSims-level implausogasm, or even a Warman555 implausogasm. I just found out that you were allied too late for me to retcon it. Otherwise I would have. Or someone else would hav. Twelfth, America and Japan got over it because we walked into Japan, overthrew the imperialism, and started their technology boost. If we just made them surrender without too much war by being friendly, it would never have happened. There are still way too many people in Hawaii who are furious over Pearl Harbor. And, the US and Japan can still fight the Russo-Turkish alliance and win and conquer all your territory. We just ain't implausible like you folk. We know better. And, if I need fuel, I'll just buy it from the UAR and in Manchuria and Indonesia and/or even...AFGHANISTAN!
 * Don't have to go very far for fuel just look north to Canada or even Venezuela or Colombia, believe they own Venezuela. Anyways, I honestly think both you need to finish this argument up, it's one reasons why many map games die: long arguments over something simple, implausible people - not naming names, but to be honest, me sometimes, and the glitches in the coding. If your going to continue to fight, atleast take it to the talk page and not on the main game. Enclavehunter (talk) 22:46, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the third time I've said it but maybe this time you'll get it Viva. Your little Balkan puppet leaders can say whatever they want to you but it's the people that run the show. THE MASSES. Here's an example; During the American Civil War, European governments sure as HELL wanted the South to win in order to weaken the rising American nation. However they knew better to not recognize the Confederacy because A) The South had not had a decisive victory in a battle with the north(unlike the Americans during the Revolution @ the Battle of Saratoga which won them French support) and B) THEIR PEOPLE WOULD NEVER STAND FOR IT. Next, who are you going to sell all that oil if the UN is sanctioning you? Yourself? the Soviets? Hungary? Their consume would not even dent your supply, and world oil prices will drop due to an oversupply; THAT would ruin you. Your "Republic" has way too many angry citizens who would love to rebel. Combined with economic turmoil, these would be the death of you. What'll you do to put it down? Nuke your own cities? Or have your "huge" army take the next camel to Persia or Greece? Not only do they hate you, but they are unified by hatred for a common enemy--which transcends other factors. Even the warring Greek city-states of antiquity knew that their hatred for their common enemy(Persia) would unite them.
 * As an unbiased mod, I must address both sides. One of America's weaknesses is dependence on foreign oil. However, when OPEC did what they did in 1970, the US could not get oil from the places that Scraw mentioned-- because they were safely in the hands of communists. Here, they are not. Manchuria/Manchukuo is Japanese territory, the UAR hates you and would happily give them some, and Indonesia/Afghanistan have not been overthrown by communist governments as far as I know yet. South America too. Since we are on the topic of implausibility, I have some things to say to America as well(don't take this as an attack, it's too late to retcon it and i have to as an unbiased mod). The acquiring of Newfoundland,Labrador, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia simply would not have happened. Canadians have a profound sense of nationalism that dates back to the American invasion in 1812 and even the incursion during the Revolution. They repelled both attacks, which boosted their nationalistic feelings, promising themselves to never be absorbed by the United States. During the Civil War, Confederate sympathizers invaded a town in Vermont along the Canadian border. They were caught but escaped into Canada-- Canada safeguarded them. The North threatened war if such a thing happened again. That scared them enough to confederate into the Dominion of Canada, a nationalistic action. That has remained to the present day, in fact they still celebrate the day that they repulsed the American invasion of 1812. Even with Quebec's secession, they would not allow that(based on what I said and economically speaking-- why would they give up their Atlantic coastline leaving them with only parts of the Hudson and the Pacific coast?). AP (talk) 23:23, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Scraw, I still control two-thirds of the world's oil, and and 90% of the nations in the world aren't going to abide by some silly sanctions and watch their nation's implode because of the lack of oil. I have only the Persians, Greeks, and Balkan populace to worry about, and your too angry to actually understand the extent and equipping of my military, so your camel statement is very inaccurate. The Turks still outnumber the European population of the republic, and would gladly excerise their genocide muscle to free up some room for themselves. The Persians aren't much of a threat since I still have the Sunni Muslim population which outnumbers them from Syria, Arabia, and Iraq, all of which hated Iran. And the Balkans are too easy to take out. Turkey's military has come a long way since the 1880s. Long-range strategic bombers, nuclear missiles, aircraft carriers, well-trained jihadists, and a well-maintained missile shield mark Turkey's reputation as a powerful nation. Not to mention the four successful military campaigns and six political unions that came out with Turkey on top. Scraw, you woefully underestimate my power. ~Viva
 * That wasn't me. It was Enc, AP, or someone else. I ain't that stupid.
 * Well I'm sorry for that then... <_< Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 03:16, December 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oil is found in OTL Chad.
 * Other countries are major suppliers and have large reserves enough to provide several nations with what they need. You are woefully wrong and make unsafe assumptions; for the millionth time, they all hate you--whether Persian, Arab, Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Bulgarian,Omani,ETC. Your infrastructure is terrible and most of your land is a desert wasteland. This is not the 18th century, there will be no genocide except for maybe your bestie Stalin/Trotsky killing millions of his own people in Russia's frozen wasteland known as Siberia. Your nation was built on implausibility and dangerous assumptions. Just look over this talk page and its archives. It's all your military campaigns and multiple wars occuring at once. Somehow, it happened. I dont know what it is but on most map games, things like this are sadly overlooked. For this last post you made, all you did was repeat most of what you've already said and reiterate your strengths. Some of them are true, others are out of line and implausible. The bottom line is: Turkey will fall, hard.


 * Wow, so I'm the only one with any knowledge of real world geography? First off, Anatolia, Syria, Iraq, Greece, the Balkans, Bulgaria, and 70% of Persia aren't desert, so get your facts straight. Second, I can commit as many genocides as I want regardless of time, unless someone forgot something. I do recall spending the time between 1930 and 1950 building my infastructure so your facts are still wrong. I really don't care what the people want or think about, I still have enough soldier to kill them if I want, and I'm not above nuking my own cities. I have enough excuses to use anyway. If Turkey is going to fall, I will gladly nuke all of my neighbors and enemies as I do. I still have a strategic bomber fleet you know (OTL Mirage IV's were made for nuking). Oh, and I would like to know what my "dangerous assumptions" were. And the reiteration if a problem of my, I'm not good at arguing as my previous statements and my family can prove. And please list any of the implausible moves I made. That's the more serious question than a smart remark. And those weren't multiple wars, but campaigns of the same ones. I launched three different campaigns in Persia as part of the same war since I couldn't destroy Persia in one go. ~Viva
 * It's called a hyperbole. 20 years of infrastructure get you nothing basically, maybe a closing of the camel line from Baghdad to Aleppo because it just can't compete with the 2-lane highway you built. Unlike the 1800s, when people didnt know about things, communication was iffy at best, etc the modern world has a very nice way of dealing with intolerable genocides-- things have changed, no? Dangerous assumption #1: You think your military is huge. Nuking your own cities is flat out retarded, no if ands or buts. You do this whole genocide-kill-colonize thing in every map game and i'd like for you to remember that you act as a government would. NOT as you would. If the Soviet Union thought like you, we'd all by dead right now because they would have shot their nuclear arsenal at the entire world as you claim to want to do as you fall. Dangerous assumption #2: You think your own people support your outlandish plans. Dangerous assumption #3: You believe you are a superpower. It might happen, if the world doesnt kill you. America just might fall to its knees with an effective oil embargo. But who knows. You conquered multiple nations, they were separate words. I am good at arguing, as shown by my overturning of all your points. I'd like to close this argument. Good Day.AP (talk) 08:57, December 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I "think" my military is huge? As I last recall, it was huge. And I don't do the genocide-kill-colonize thing in every map game (I'd like you to remember genocide and kill are the same thing). So, I'm going to embargo the United States, have my people think for themselves instead of let you dictate what they believe, and I'm going to invade Egypt. And perhaps you should stop being a jerk and actually read what transportation capabilities the Middle East had instead of insulting my nation and its transportation system. Its rude and uncalled for. And I already admitted my arguing skills are poor, are don't need you bragging about your own. I feel I may need to start smoking in the future... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 14:42, December 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * You know, just forget it. I'm not in the mood. You win. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:01, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Attacker)

 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +1, -3 (KPF is desert mostly), -4 (RotB is mostly on islands, as is the capital): -6
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Strength: Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Ethiopia (M +3), Somalia (M +3), Hungary (M +3): +17
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: Yes (turned to dictatorship in 1970.5), Chance is not higher than 6; +0 (You do not have all the requirements.)
 * Morale: -2.5 (Nukes used), -3 (Attempted extermination year earlier), -1 (Chance is lower than 7)
 * Nukes: +10 (Belgrade), +7 (Athens), +1.5 (Thessaloniki), +7 (Corinth), +1.5 (Sofia), +5 (Skopje), +.5 (Tirana), +.5 (Sarajevo), +.5 (Split)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 6
 * 23:13
 * 2*3*1*3=18
 * 18/1224=0.014705882352941176
 * 0.014705882352941176*pi=0.0461764705882353
 * Total: +31

Rebels (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: Balkan Rebels (L +4), Middle Eastern Confederation (L +4), United Arab Republic (M, +3), Libya (M, +3), Algeria (M, +3), United States (S, +2), Mexico (S, +2), France (S, +2), Great Britain (S, +2): +22
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1, -3 (Attempted extermination year earlier), -5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: -10 (Belgrade), -7 (Athens), -1.5 (Thessaloniki), -7 (Corinth), -1.5 (Sofia), -5 (Skopje), -.5 (Tirana), -.5 (Sarajevo), -.5 (Split)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 52.5

Result
Pita, your game. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 05:37, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

The rebels frakking win.

((52.5/(82.5)*2)-1 = 25.74%

(25.74)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 12.87%

However, nukes were used against the victor, ergo the conquest result is doubled/multiplied by 2.

(12.87)*2 = 25.74%

DIE DIE DIE TURKEY!

How could Turkey use if I nuked two "recognized" nations, and thus not nuking myself? If the total goes negative, the loser wins? How the heck does that work? I miss my grey cells... T-T Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:37, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

You lose points for nuking someone, as that is unmoral and unethical. The total has not gone negative. What are you looking at? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 03:05, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Disscussion
You totally know how to really /*/* up an algorithm. Leave it to people who know what to do next time. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 02:19, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well that's not my problem. I was made an agorithim head by the chief mod. And Pita's example battle has Russia using five nukes. Why do I only get to use two? And furthermore, I'm a member of of the CIS, and thus get the Soviet Union's aid regardless. Plus, your just added nations who never threw their support into the conflict such as the United States, and made no statement that you would do so in the turn, and thus cheated by changing the algorithim after the turn and the battle had passed, and changed the turn even though a new one had already started. Even worse still is the fact that Belgrade as the largest city in the Balkans and of OTL Yugoslavia would be the de facto capital since no capital was stated for the Balkan nation by the mods. Is this an issue I need to bring to the attention of the other mods? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:43, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

What mods? AP? You know his prejudices.

Anywho, you do know that was a big joke? Russia with US support, Mexico, Madagascar, etc, etc. You actually based your war off that? Wow. Big wow.

Furtherurthermore, the USSR is a player nation and you are subordinate to them in the CIS. They have to say yes first, and Enc is inactive as of late.

Meanwhile, I, the US, am the head of the IDU, and I put NPCs in there.

Also, Belgrade is not, repeat not in Balkan rebel hands.

And don't even dream of threatening me in this game. I as Scraw have the second-highest position in this game (behind Pita, whom I am forever subordinate to) and as the US, the numero uno of the world (tie with Russia and them Japs). With a flick of the fingers I can nuke every city or town or village in your nation and not worry about it. I can still bring down your vengeant one-time allies. Easy as hell.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 03:04, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Your assumptions have no basis. I am not prejudiced, I resolved my differences with Viva a while back. I am dealing with a major in-game issue. It seems that way because most of it is Turkey's fault. Just clearing this up.AP (talk) 03:11, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ahahaha. See, your wrong on several points. When I joined the CIS, Turkey joined as an equal member, which means that when Enclave is gone, Turkey takes over temporarily until his return, and thus I get his help. Being a mod doesn't mean you can still change and add stuff to an algorithim that makes no sense. You put the NPCs there, but you still didn't throw your support in to help the UAR, which you need to make either way it goes or it didn't happen. And you stated that the rebels captured the Balkans and declared indepedence, and were marching on Greece. Why would Balkan rebels go to Greece instead of take the Balkans, which if I remember, you said the rebels would go after their homelands, not those of others. And I was under the impression AP was an unbiased mod. And I agree, my problems with AP are gone. Either way we still have Pita. As for the UAR, from what I can remember, you never stated the UAR was apart of any military alliance with the US. You brag about nukes, but you removed all of my, which I can plausibly use against my neighbors, and can develop those nukes, the ones I built over the last 20 years. Your statements are flawed and one-sided. Period. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 03:23, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I combed through the algorithm. Nukes can't be used to nuke every major city in the opposing side's countries like that. A government doesnt think like that Viva. Greece is a part of the Balkan peninsula and is part of the Republic of the Balkans(an entity that will remain united unlike the OTL Balkans because they have a reason to unite and have feelings of brotherhood for each other). Just because the player of the USSR is gone doesnt mean his nation floated into space, they are still "there" if you get what I'm saying. This is it: You both have a conflict of interest. I rule in favor of the plaintiff, Scraw. AP (talk) 03:33, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ahahaha no. You are very funny. The Soviet Union is here, but Enc is not. There is a massive difference. The USSR is always in charge.

Greece is part of the Balkans.

You act like you are higher than us.

AP is attitude is normally an "end of story" type when something this big happens.

You are being influenced by the dark side I see.

Also I did promise long ago that if the UAR aided a defendent or became a defendent, I was gonna be there. And I brought my pals with me.

Anyways, everyone is flawed, but your statements is more flawed.

To quote Socrates:

"...He says that he wise. Whom proclaims himself wise is not wise. Whom proclaims himself not to be wise is truly wise."

Also I have waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy more nukes than you.

Also @AP, it's funny how we have the same POV and come out differently. And thank you, Mr. Da Jury.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 03:40, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

You mean like how the US continues to threaten me with nukes? And dispite the development of my military to invade nations such as the UAR? I have nukes, why can't I use them? And I'm behaving like a nation that has the power to defeat its foes would. I'm outnumbered, and I have weapons that can change the tide. Turkey's soverignty, as you and Scraw put it yourselves, is threatened, and thus. I have to act or perish. So your point is moot. And heck, Syria's government might fall, and nations everywhere are afraid that Assad might use chemical weapons, which many nations would be foolish to use, to prevent itself from collapsing. So yes, nations are foolish enough to do what is needed to survive. Germany killed millions to prevent itself from collapsing, Yugoslavia killed thousands to keep the nation together, and South Vietnam gave up swaths of its land to protect the capital. Nations will do anything to survive. And I never proclaimed myself the Grand Poobah Viva, unlike the Grand Poobah Scraw. I don't constanting make the statements that I am higher than unlike yourself Scraw, nor do I change the algorithim even though the guy who handles them (myself), followed the rules as stated by the High Chief who made them. And finally, you have more nukes, but mine are here in the Middle East, and I have a missile shield. So most of yours would be destroyed, while the ones that hit wouldn't do much to weaken me. Regardless, I still find the ruling biased, and you can't say they are not. Well, you can, but I still think what I think I guess. Goodnight, I concede to the "victors". I'll just play Haiti. Looks like the next possible Switzerland to me. I'll need funding from America, so give me moneyz. And foody things too. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 03:30, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I like how you just copy 'n' pasted that. I've answered you below. And I, who never proclaimed myself Grand Poobah Scraw (only Pita gets that title), I was only teaching how not to piss off a superior before you go to high school and talk back at teachers or soemthing. And you broke well over 50% of the new algorithm rules.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 04:00, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I don't recall copy pasting anything. Anyway, you declare your power every single time you appear to declare your position. I mean seriously, it get pretty annoying with all of the honoraries tacked on, and after that I just lose faith in the system. And I left high school a while ago, so don't let my bickering give the wrong impression. And I broke no rules from what I can see. But that is not my problem. And I still need money and food for Haiti. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:07, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Better yet, direct that money to the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:19, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Strength: Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Ethiopia (M +3), Somalia (M +4), Hungary (M +3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: Yes (turned to dictatorship in 1970.5), +10 (RNG:8)
 * Morale: -2.5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: +10 (Tehran), +7 (Baghdad), -1.5 (Kirkuk), +1.5 (Damacus), +1.5 (Isafan), +1.5 (Aleppo), +5 (Latakia), +.5 (Bursa), +.5 (Nijaf), +.5 (Qom)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 8


 * 23:13
 * 2*3*1*3=18
 * 18/1224=0.014705882352941176
 * 0.014705882352941176*pi=0.0461764705882353
 * Total: 98

Middile Eastern Confederation (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Middle Eastern Confederation (L +4), Balkan Rebels (L +4)
 * Motive: +5
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1, -3 (Attempted extermination year earlier), -5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: -10 (Tehran), -7 (Baghdad), -1.5 (Kirkuk), -1.5 (Damacus), -1.5 (Isafan), -1.5 (Aleppo), -5 (Latakia), -.5 (Bursa), -.5 (Nijaf), -.5 (Qom)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Total: -14.5

Result
Pita... Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 05:37, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
You do one algorithm for both rebels, and using all these nukes is implausible and also affect your loyalists, who will all die of radiation. Use your gray cells, dammit. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:58, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Why, didn't you hear? I roasted all of my grey cells. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:13, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Tragic. (Mr. Omar.) So how are you still alive? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 02:18, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ah yes, I too am a fan, but as for the grey cells... Well I get transplants from "sources". Just, sources. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:50, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Greater Industry: +3
 * Strength: Turkey (L +4, BC +4), Soviet Union (L +4, BC +4), Ethiopia (M +3), Somalia (M +3), Hungary (M +3)
 * Motive: +6
 * Special Status: Yes (turned to dictatorship in 1970.5), +10 (RNG:6)
 * Morale: -5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: +10 (Cairo), +2 (Khartoum), +2 (Tripoli), +7 (Alexandria), +1.5 (Port Said), +1.5 (Benghazi), +1.5 (Port Sudan), +1.5 (Luxor), +5 (Asyut)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 5


 * 20:30
 * 2*0*3*0=0
 * 0/1235=0
 * 0*pi=0
 * Total: 86

Middle Eastern Coalition (Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Greater Population: +3
 * Strength: United Arab Republic (L +4), Libya (M +3), Sudan (M +3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -5 (Nukes used)
 * Nukes: -10 (Cairo), -2 (Khartoum), -2 (Tripoli), -7 (Alexandria), -1.5 (Port Said), -1.5 (Benghazi), -1.5 (Port Sudan), -1.5 (Luxor), -5 (Asyut)
 * Economic Situtation: +3
 * Chance: 7
 * Total: 6.5

Result
Turkey takes ? of somebody's land, or ??%.

Disscussion
I suck at math. -_- Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:34, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

'''please wrap your head around the concept that you play as a government would, not as if YOU are all of the sudden President/Emperor/Sultan of whatever the hell your country is. No nation is stupid enough to do all of that. ONE algorithm for the rebellion which you lost. Turkey will crumble.AP (talk) 02:54, December 6, 2012 (UTC)'''

You mean like how the US continues to threaten me with nukes? And dispite the development of my military to invade nations such as the UAR? I have nukes, why can't I use them? And I'm behaving like a nation that has the power to defeat its foes would. I'm outnumbered, and I have weapons that can change the tide. Turkey's soverignty, as you and Scraw put it yourselves, is threatened, and thus. I have to act or perish. So your point is moot. And heck, Syria's government might fall, and nations everywhere are afraid that Assad might use chemical weapons, which many nations would be foolish to use, to prevent itself from collapsing. So yes, nations are foolish enough to do what is needed to survive. Germany killed millions to prevent itself from collapsing, Yugoslavia killed thousands to keep the nation together, and South Vietnam gave up swaths of its land to protect the capital. Nations will do anything to survive. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 03:30, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

The US is not threatening Turkey goddamit. I'M threatening YOU. And you can't fight two wars at once.

And you're wrong with the last point.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 03:40, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I can't fight two wars at once? But that goes against reality, and recent human history. You know, with the two wars America fought at the same time? Is that a game rule, or just a on-the-fly rule? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:10, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

No, it does not go against reality or human history. America was fighting two wars it was going to win, you just lost two wars and are ready to go for another? Real smart. No sane government would do this, only wank user would.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:59, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I find your lack of proper social skills disturbing. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:43, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

(breath breath) I find your lack of plausibility disturbing. (breath breath) Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:47, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

gasp Whatever will I do but move on and live my life. I guess we're both equally shocked. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 04:21, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Japanese Invasion of Korea
can someone do the algorithem i have no intentions on annexing Korea but it was a provoked attack, Korea has been a creadiblwe threat to Japan for atleast 5 years and the nuclear bomb was the last straw. Nk.

Well it looks like we're both screwed, most of Korea and Japan are radioactive wastelands now XD. As are large swatches of the US west coast and Hawaii. Although Japan can rebuild. I think I'll probably restart as a small successor state in Korea for funsies :) 173.13.208.149 21:20, December 8, 2012 (UTC) (Pita)

Might I recieve some of Japan and Korea's skilled labor (refugee population :P) for Zaire? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 00:17, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Let's just say that some Korean nuke subs might *accidentally* wander into Zaire :) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:33, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Excellent... >:) Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 21:37, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, what just happened? What's wrong with us nuking each other? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:49, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Implausibility, that's what. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:50, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * As a neutral observor, do you mind telling us exactly what was implausible? You never say why, but only that the action was. We can't read you mind for the second time. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 00:20, December 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * The usage of so many nukes, especially without a military war actually occurring (they were still in a phoney war) combined with the nuking of a neutral country made it implausible. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:21, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay, that sounds much better. Thank you. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 00:25, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * 'Welcome. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:27, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

i didnt nuke you Pita i bomb the hell out of you yes, and i used EMPs but i didnt use nukes because i wanted to keep east asia out of disaster, you did te full nuking on your own. Nkbeeching

Canada-Quebec-Newfoundland Dispute
Canada had a short lived dispute this evening with Quebec and the United States. Information regarding this dispute is to follow.

"I am new here.... i have not had time to read the entire history of the nations and i became confused. The map that had been on the main page had Quebec as part of Canada. Newfoundland was confusing.. i was wondering.. 'is newfoundland independent or part of the us?'

The following areas of North America have been recognized as *not part of Canada*

-Quebec

-Newfoundland

-Nova Scotia and New Brunswick

I do apologise for this."

-OreoToast555

OreoToast555 (talk) 07:01, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

==Zairian Invasion of the Central African Republic==

Zaire (Belligerent)

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker (+1)
 * Zaire (L +4)
 * Greater population: +3
 * Greater industry: +3
 * Motive: +6
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: +3
 * Chance: 3


 * 22:09
 * 2*2*0*9=0
 * 0/1308=0
 * 0*pi=0
 * Total: 27

Central African Republic(Defendant)

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: Defender (+2)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: 0
 * Economy: -3
 * Total: 12

Result
Zaire takes ??% of CAR land.

Disscussion
I am leader of the CAR or it's remnant! 90.244.92.246 16:10, December 16, 2012 (UTC) R. Beal.

No.This is retconned, but i can't cross anything out right now.If you wanted to "get rid of corruption" you wouldnt take land. Don't think that your country is some shining African wonderland because its not and you post as if it was.

Its an excuse to take land. And in comparsion to the other African nations around Zaire, it is. That's a fact if you actually bothered to read up on the nations there at the time. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 19:26, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Sweden and Norway and Quebec
Have these nations leave the game yet? If yes, why don't we colour them grey?Laptop_Zombie 07:51, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Because they're part of alliances. They're colored by the alliances they're in. Quebec: IDU. Sweden, Norway: NATOC.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 19:24, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Indain-nipalnese War

India

Location 4

Motive+5

Stregh 3 Japan (BC +4+2) indochina(+2) Indoisa(+2) Tibet(+2) +24

Greater population+3

greater indistry+3

Morale -1

6:07*3.14=1905.98

Chance 8

Total:37

Nipal

location:5

Motive:10

Morale 0

Chance 0

Total:15

Result : Nipal is under military ocuppition

NAFTA
Canada: We offer to build pipelines through the 49th parallel to ship oil and gas, and to allow shipping vehichles to go through customs without stopping at the border crossings. These pipeslines are to be managed by Private Companies in Calgary, Alberta, where the main oil industry exists.

Current State of Hungary (Part II: Electric Boogaloo)
Alright, after another break, I'm curious as to the current State of Hungary.

Things I know for sure about. Can anybody else cover what happened with my country? Stewdio333 (talk) 08:44, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Hungary was invading Slovene portion of Yugoslavia, in the aftermath of the Great Turkish Collapse. The result of this Invasion I don't know, but I have a bad feeling about it.
 * 2) One of Hungary's largest allies, Turkey, has of course collapsed, leaving the Soviet Union as the only major nations supporting my country.
 * 3) It sucks to live in Hungary, (This TL)
 * 4) FEG has started manufacturing, and restarted the military manufacture of Hungary, (mainly by recreating the Turkish IEDC 61 Rifle, which is the equivilant to when OTL Yugoslavia developed their own form of the Soviet AKM with the Zastava M70).

Zaire (Belligerent)
Total: 42
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: Zaire (L), Zambia (M), Tanzania (M), Rwanda (M), Uganda (M): 16
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 6
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: 0
 * Economic situation: 5
 * Chance: 5
 * 21:27
 * 2*1*2*7= 28
 * 28/1392= 0.020114942528735632
 * 0.020114942528735632*pi= 0.0632816091954023

Rhodesia (Belligerent)
Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Rhodesia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: 0
 * Economic situation: 3
 * Chance: 7

Discussion
I believe the CAR's defence treaty still holds with Ziear and we condemned Rhodesia in the AU a few turns back. I consider my self a allies of Ziear. I will give my political support freely; and troops and/or matériel if asked for. Long live Ziear!90.244.91.229 22:09, December 23, 2012 (UTC).

Argument of 1980.0

 * Global Events: A Brazil-based terrorist group, A Mão Sangrenta,(Bloody Hand) begins world wide operations. No one knows that it was really them who caused the reactor to blow up in Western Brazil. Madagascar joins the Union of South African states. The Soviet Union shows signs of economic depression and internal dissent. (Enc hasn't posted in a long time and if he doesn't post soon, the Soviet Union will collapse earlier than OTL) The Gorbachev government begins to make limited reforms. (I intend to do something like in New Union.) Meanwhile, people in both Germanies begin to campaign for unifications.
 * Okay, this is slowly starting to make less and less sense. Why would all of those nations decide to join the Union of South African States? What threat is facing them? And more importantly, why do these superstates automatically pop up around an alliance in the region? I see nothing of the sort near Japan or the US. ~Viva
 * ​Because, they're scared of YOU. And besides, everyone near or around America or Japan is already stuck in an alliance. Get up and smell the weak coffee.
 * They have no reason to be afraid. What threat could Zaire pose to them? I haven't invaded any of their nations. Heck, OTL Thailand and Vietnam are afraid of China, but they never joined into a larger nation because of it. Sounds like an excuse to me. And I don't drink coffee. And I don't recall China, Siam, Burma, India, Tibet, Indonesia, Nepal, or the Phillipines being apart of any alliances, nor the Latin American nations, which in OTL hated YOU. In fact, if you actually read historial accounts of Africa in the 1980s, they were not only opposed to South Africa, but more united because of the Pan-Africanism rage on the continent. Wake up and smell the logic coffee. ~Viva
 * Nepal and Siam are alies.90.244.92.253 03:18, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * But they aren't allies with Japan from what I can find. ~Viva
 * I hate to curse, but this has reached a tipping point. Why the f(iretr)uck do you always compare EVERYTHING to OTL. China, Siam, Burma, India, Tibet, Indonesia, and Nepal are already in the EATSP. Look up the past. And, the Phillippines are a US Commonwealth, like Cuba. And, South Africa exited the apartheid period just a few years ago. Why the damn hell don't you bother reading the past turns?
 * I did. But you never stated that the revolution was over. And as Pita stated himself, since you never tampered with the region, its development was the same as OTL. And I compare everything to OTL for the sole reason that as you yourself, in your wisdom, did the same for Turkey and Liberia, completely disregarding any progress I made for the nation and refusing to acknowledge it as a major power after my endless attempts to moderize and industrialize it, and treating it as a minor third-world nation, i.e. with AP's smirky remark that my 30+ years of infastructure development only closed a highway gap for the camels. And you still ahven't answered my question as to how Zaire would threaten the nations, when all the nations that joined me grew rich. ~Viva
 * You don't get the whole OTL-ATL thing. You can only use history that happened  BEFORE  the game started. The rest ishistory. And you threaten them, you do. They're not blind. They saw your subterfuge and sneakery that you used to force other nations into your union.
 * Stop coming up with excuses. How did I "force" them into my union by asking them polietly? I ask them to join without threatening them. When Burundi refused, I didn't invade it even though I could. Could I say that the US forced all of the NATOC members to join because you asked them to? Pita stated that Africa developed much the same way as it did because of lack of player intervention. If you are really loyal to him, then what he said is true, and the OTL-ATL matter shouldn't be an issue. ~Viva
 * all i can say is that im surprised for a brazilian alqaeda, also i think something like this should or would happen on Mexico, and China, its more plausible Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:25, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Are Lesotho and Swaziland still about or annexed?
 * They are independent, but are likely to join the Union of South African States. Viva, do you think that South Africa-With a much larger economy than yours- would allow you to spread your influence like that? No, simply put.
 * Actually, given the sanctions on South Africa OTL and ATL by this time, and the actual GDP of the nation (which was approxcimately US$80.547 billion in 1980 according to Wikipedia), compared to Zaire, which has grown economically since the reforms, and the development of its industrial capacity (which was second only to South Africa OTL), and the nations that are under the AEC's control, my economy is larger than South Africa's. Especially given that by 1985, South Africa's GDP dropped to US$57.273 billion. Compared to Zaire (and lets use OTL numbers for this one), my economy is US$54.277 billion. South Africa may surpass me there, but many of the nations I control were undergoing economing downturns because of corruption and war. Now, given the ATL growth of my nation's economy (since I saved the economy from collapsing and agressively pursued industrialization), as well as counting those nations which joined up with me, my GDP is close to $100 billion. And why would any nation want to join racist South Africa? They wouldn't. There's a revolution going in ATL South Africa, but it hasn't succeded appearently. So given that I'm larger and stronger than South Africa as recent turns have proven, and OTL has confirmed, in the words of Nk, those nations would rather join me than South Africa. ~Viva
 * No. South Africa would not let you get ahead of them; just because it's an NPC doesnt mean that they just sit frozen while you get rich. Therefore, they have a larger economy and will maintain it that way. The revolution is over, they overthrew the apartheid government last year. 
 * And still you disgard my economic development. South Africa is rich, but compared to the larger and more resource and manpower-blessed Zaire, it won't hold a candle to it by the next decade. I already surpassed it economically given the fact that I have more accessable resources (for which I have developed mining facilities), more transportation (as outlined in the last turns), and more manpower. Heck, I've got 106.4 million citizens. South Africa alone only has 24.2 million. Even if I gave each citizen $2000 bucks (about the same as South Africa at the time), way below what they actually because of Zaire's work, the Zaire would still have more money that South Africa (about $266 billion), until 2006 when their GDP's meet. However, given the natural laws of economic growth, Zaire would still remain ahead of South Africa's economy regardless of anything. Zaire has more people and resources, and as of 1974, effective leadership. So no matter how you want to look at it, South Africa can't compete with the natural resources or population growth of Zaire. OTL or ATL-wise, Zaire will always have more natural resources than South Africa (a few diamond mines and aluminium plants count for only so much). The US and Russia grew fat off of their own untapped resources and became superpowers because of them, and now Zaire will too (since I have $24 trillion bucks worth of them, and I have the most resource-rich land on the face of the planet). ~Vivaporius, Dragon Slayer
 *  XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!  SUPERPOWER? You make me laugh. South Africa will always stay ahead of you. Why? Money is power. And, the USAS has much larger and better foreign relations you do. And, in proportion, about, what, 37.2% of the people you "conquered" have any intention of remaining with you. Have you learned NOTHING from Turkey? My extended family lives a few blocks away from me. There's a reason we don't live together. Same with you and these other nation. Hell, decolonization meant independence, something the colonies wanted since  before  1900. They're not going to join up with their kinsmen. When a person turns 18, you do not want to be found still living with your parents. Same story here. 
 * ^ Exactly. You really don't change Viva. You're the same person you were when you wanted to take over French West Africa as Liberia. Same with Turkey. Same with Zaire and the X amount of nations you do the same kind of strategy with OVER AND OVER.
 * You appearently weren't around when I was playing PPII, Things Got Worse, or LLL. learn to do your research before you post. And I don't know your family, but mine seems to be perfectly content living together. ~Viva
 * Indeed. But since our blind friend Scraw can't read, allow me to walk you through my "conquest" as Zaire. I asked my members to join, and they agreed. No troops, no bombs, no dirty emails. Invitations. As for the superpower deal, the United States had tons of untapped resources, and with an industry to match, we used them to fuel economic growth, production, and political power. Zaire was confirmed to have the most natural resources on the planet. Look it up and read it. South Africa has money, but by the 1990s, its will have far less than Zaire since no matter how powerful you are, you still need oil, you still need steel, and you still need rubber, all of which I have plenty. There are no other nations that surpass Zaire's rubber industry, as you and AP stated yourselves with Liberia. There was a reason Japan waged a war and lost, bomb or no bomb. It needed oil, so it invaded China, Indonesia, and Indochina for the resources needed to wage war and grow. It fought the US, and then it got outproduced and defeated. South Africa has resources, but nearly the amount as Zaire, nor the manpower or industrial capacity (ATL-wise). And something you still haven't gotten Scraw was that while the African nations wanted independence, they wanted it from the Europeans. There is a reason why the whole United States of Africa deal is so popular over there. Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Ghana, and Senegal have even promoted, and we've all heard about Libya's outspokeness in trying to make it a reality. Pan-Africanism in 1980's Africa was high. Get that threw your head. If you took five seconds to actually do some research, you would have heard of the, which sought to create a federation of African nations. This was the same organization that succeded in forming the Organization of African Unity, which became the African Union, and which many believe will one day form the United States of Africa. ~Viva
 * Stop fighting at Christmastime, sirs!90.244.92.253 15:23, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

Argument 1980.5

 * Also if Brazil is with terrorist wouldn't American Mexico and free Mexico would to, after all since 1910 Mexican have hated Americans like the Muslims Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:10, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * American Mexico is a bunch of states now. Free Mexico is an independent nation.
 * Well yeah the states thing is trully free Mexico would revolt against American power or control over it and the southern most American Mexican states would revolt because California I can believe it to be happy in America but the others would hardly be, after all the are hispanic and have hated the American since 1910, so terrorism would be an option to some Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:26, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, I have no idea what you're saying.
 * i mean, since pancho villa, and Emiliano zapata, Mexicans have become highly nationalistic, hating and fighting any intrusion american might do on mexico, and as there is the rising of terrorism i think the best places due to the currenty situations would be three American mexico,the balkans and Brazil Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:54, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I get it now. DO YOU NOT REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TIME THE MEXICANS TRIED TO WREAK HAVOC ON AMERICA? WE TOOK 50% OF THEIR LAND!
 * Forget it Sini. Scraw wants his American-Mexico. Odd given that the Mexicans who hated the Americans for so loing would peacefully roll over, while Greece just decided to rebel all of a sudden dispite Turkey's attempts to help them later. Bias me thinks? ~Viva
 * bias it is, but you were aswell quite dumb if you conquer something you give it as much as autonomy as they can, to keep them happy, and havok was broke on america by the americans, they where not launching an attack at you if not a weak nation at that moment, The uk by taking belize, and you just use that as casus belli to get california, Sine dei gloriem (talk) 21:14, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, they did invade us during World War II, so... Oh, and, Viva, you actually invaded and conquered Greece without them attacking you or anything. 
 *  Mexico joins the Axis and invades Belize and Guatemala simultaneously.  in fact no, you post they attacked in a mean to gain california, with no real casus belli, about viva, its trully he attacks at random withough giving casus belli, but ok i mean atleast by the end of the decade there should be a terrorist group of american mexico Sine dei gloriem (talk) 21:31, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * You just said yourself that they attacked to get California...
 * texas, my mistake, and i was distracted i mean you post they attacked you in texas so you could have baja california in an american irredentist belief i see in every timeline in which america is a world power, which after a while gets boring, but i still insist that there should be terrorist groups in american mexico by the end of the decade Sine dei gloriem (talk) 21:37, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * But when I came up with a reason to attack Bulgaria, who attacked me, and after I did my best to restore relations with them, they still rebelled. And what of the Balkan nations, who as Yugoslavia when it was player-controlled was a Turkish ally, why did it rebel even though it was the focus of my PR and rebuilding campaign? Turkey and the Balkan nations were allies, yet you and AP magically made it hate me for reasons that made no sense. ~Viva
 * Becaaaaaaaause, we told you this already, those alliances were IMPLAUSIBLE. Jesus...
 * No, you just told me that they hated me, and never explained why. I had to demand that you tell me why, and yet I got nothing but more half-a**ed excuses like "The whole world hates you" or "Turkey and the Balkans are allies? IMPLAUSIBLE", because normal, logical answers to too much for the Grand Poobahs of Map Gaming. I get that they may have hated each other because of the Ottoman Empire's control over them, but you stated that OTL history doesn't count, and when Yugoslavia and I became friends, and I began taking over the Middle East, you and Scraw began using  OTL history to undermine my efforts, and then went all crazy when I did used OTL history to explain why South Africa would be out-produced by Zaire. You flip-flop, lie, powergame when it suits you. Japan takes over China, yet there is no rebellion. Yet when there is one, Nk gets to control the events. I take over the Middle East, with whom the Turks are largely related culturally and religiously, and I get nothing but rebellions, which are overpowered and impossible to defeat. America invades Mexico, does nothing to improve relations after that, and yet Scraw can control it without any hint of an uprising, yet I do the same with the UAR, and not only is it implausible (because no one has ever attacked another nation that is a threat to them), but you neuter my attempts to protect myself. Its is biased no matter how you try to reason around it. ~Viva
 * bulgarian alliance was plausible, they ally with the ottomans to reconquer greece in the WWI if im not mistaken Sine dei gloriem (talk) 22:58, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * You're confusing me again. And I told you, a Slavic + Turkic alliance? Unless we're in the unipolar world of everyone being forced to like everyone else, that's implausible. Do you have any idea of the relationship between the vast majority of the Slavs and Turkey? I can go to mainstream Yugoslavia 1950 and 70% AT LEAST will tell me how they hate the Turks or the Muslims, etc. Meanwhile, in China, independence was redelivered on the terms of remaining as an ally. In Mexico, I have a golden rule with the same way I handle my younger siblings: you stay away from my room, and I stay away from your room. Japan was already in a diplomatic war with China, and I was straight on attacked by Mexico. DEFENSE! And Sine? That was for that reason. In this game, that was just the old "players allying with random people because they need allies" which is what everyone does at first.
 * Stop. You and Sine's little League of implausible players don't help yourselves at all. If anything, it strengthens the opposition. 1: Just because a terrorist grouup arose in Brazil doesnt mean Brazil did anything to cause it. 2:Viva if i had a nickel for every time you implausibly handled your countries, I'd be swimming in gold. Your RNG's are sketchy at best; I mean they always work and if they don't, they do a few turns after. Like when you asked Gabon, the Congo, and Equatorial Guinea to "join" you. They all did except Guinea-the smallest and unimportant of them all which wouldnt matter if they joined you or not. Suspicious? Yes. 4: Brazil in this game is like a mini Turkey. It implausibly invaded and conquered multiple times, with some coinciding with others. 5: Sine, please learn how to use sentences. It pains me when I read a huge post divided only by commas. Furthermore, "aswell" is not a word-- not to mention you don't use it in the right context. 6: Stop this now. The only thing you all achieve by doing this is killing the game.AP (talk) 23:03, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude, you skipped 3. And as for #2, you're wrong. We'd both be swimming in platinum. Drowning in it too.
 * Shame you two haven't been in every map game I've played. Right now you two are broker than a crackhead in a de-tox center. ~Viva
 * How so? And those other games? I watch. I monitor every game on this site. I monitor LLL, CoV, and NW1520. You're implausible 90% of the time, and the other 10% no one catches it.
 * Excuse me, but the player of Yugoslavia and I worked together as allies during WWII, and I even sent troops to protect him from Bulgaria. Japan sends troops into China, culls millions of its people, and they become friends because Japan was nice enough to let them go? Are you f**king serious right now? I work with Yugoslavia for a decade, protect and provide for it, bring it into the MEDC as autononomous members for THEIR protection, and they hate me for it? Do you know how many people in China still hate Japan? They hated them in 1900, they hated them in 1950, and they still hate them in 2000. You look at Turkish and Balkan diplomatic ties today and you'll see that their close allies. China and Japan hate each other to the core, and Japan has been increasing its military budget because of Chinese hatred. ~Viva
 * i only launced two wars and the third was to aid venezuela, turkey launch far more, and i conquered mostly jungle, until the final exchange for a coastline in the pacific which is what i wanted in first place,and i know aswell is not a word, its just that i forgot to prace the space bar Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:09, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, and the whole working together thing was implausible. We would have ruled it out, but by the time we figured it out too late. And in case you haven't noticed, Japan has major internal struggles in China. Read about the gang wars and the Dragon's Awakening and stuff. And it's almost 2013 and you used 2000 in the present tense. And sine, AFAIK did implausibility only 1/3 times.
 * *facepalm* I used 1900-2000 to show that even after one hundred years, CHINA STILL HATES JAPAN! And yet they get along swimmingly. As for the tense, that was a typo. ~Viva
 * And building on this, there were many wars that occured in South America at the time Sini invaded Peru and Venezeula. Again, actually doing research helps alot. ~Viva
 * Frankly, I just said that.
 * I Only invaded peru and colombia, and the last one was to help an ally the venezuelans, and that was one war, and i only three other valid wars and somehow someone gave me all of Uruguay, then i give free to a small part of it Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:18, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm with AP now, could we just ignore this, there's nothing else to be done about the events of the past, and Viva you must understand that even if  they shared culture people want to be Autonomous and and freedom, and Zaire even if being a republic or whatever it is, doesn't really let freedom a space, same with autonomy, in that perspective it is an empire, the best thing you can do is making your allies in the region and build up economic and leave any asb thing behind, after that you can actually become a world power like im trying to Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:30, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GET THE POINT!
 * i always get it, but i still say, if you as mod choose to bring another Alqaeda like organization use, 1 The Balkans, 2 mexico, 3,brazil, 4 China, these are probably the regions with more plausibility of Terrorism, and maybe colombia, and if i knew that the Wars i launched where asb i wouldn't have continued them, but oh well in the next AvA, also, You seriously watch every Map game in here? Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:35, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, yes, and yes. [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein!
 * i would invite you to Play LLL, but your favorite nations are either collapsed or not what they were Ex Ottoman Empire, France and Great Britain Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:40, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * actually east asia could use a chinese based terrorist organization as part of the post Dragon's Awakening despite east Chinese seperation from the E.A.T.S.P. and its establishment as a democracy in the making it would be in chaos and in a post war enviorment maybe some ultra-nationalist organization bent on restoring Chinese Glory i already created the perfect situation for them to take power in a china still restoring itself, plus you can also make a war between east and west china since they are both nations who could claim the right to all of china like OTL north and South Korea and if we through in the E.A.T.S.P. security and interests along with Korea you have alot of material to make some interesting events in east asia. im not going to anymore since ivve withdrawn from China so its up to the mods noqw. and Viba the mods never needed to destroy the E.A.T.S.P. it was an organizsation created to expell western imperialism and bring east asia together it was built around a central clear objective, and around mutual trust. Nk
 * Nk, you do realize that's what I made the AEC for right? To combat Western imperialism, maintain a common market for goods, and protect member interest at home and abroad. Yet the mods keep saying that I dragged the members in, forced them to obey, and that they don't trust me. I made an African version of your alliance, yet because its led by me its an empire. I built my nation off of Pan-Africanism, which by definiation and the organizations it helped create, served as the glue of my alliance, and yet I'm threatening them to join with or against me. ~Viva
 * I just got back to the computer and I agree. I'm through fighting over this. And my goal was to build up my economy with Zaire. I have Gabonese and Angolan oil, Zairian and Zimbabwian diamonds and iron ore, Zambian tin and aluminium, and East African banks and farmland. I have $24 trillion dollars worth of untapped raw materials, and tens of millions of willing workers. Yet the mods believe that South Africa, which has no oil, some diamonds, and millions (not tens of millions) of works, will surpass the nation that literally has everything. I will become a superpower since I have have all the things I need to make it work. Why don't they get that? That's all I want. Recognition. I the men, the materials, and the industrial power. By 1990, I will have exceeded South Africa. What is the problem with owning that? I don't want to fight, but refusal to acknowledge that I will beat South Africa is what ticks me off. ~Viva
 * you have all of that, if not more, but you haven't used it enough,take advantage of it as to become a stable nation, its like having a car without the key, you might have gas, but without the key its useless Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:01, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly why I built 30,000 km of rail, fixed inter-tribal problems, built hundreds of factories, fought and destroyed corruption where I found it, and exploited my nation's and member's resources to fuel industry which in turn fuelled economic growth. So I have the car, the key, the gas, and girl. ~Viva
 * All this Yuletime bikering drove me and David Rain to quit! You lot drove the CAR and the Northern Republic off! Hekon?90.244.93.2 15:02, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Gonna need a new map.
Due to many changes lately, I think the map needs a change to show what has happened.
 * 1) Romania being split into three countries, during the Civil War.
 * 2) Hungary having invaded Slovenia and won. (has yet to be retconned, so I think I won the territory legitimately.)
 * 3) Germany has reunited, at least with Soviet support. (Though in return, East Prussia was given to Poland, and Konigsberg was given to the Soviet Union.)

Stewdio333 (talk) 21:58, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Zaire

 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Zaire (L+4), Zimbabwe (M+3), Zambia (M+3), Tanzania (M+3), Kenya (M+3), Angola (M+3), Uganda (M+3), Congo (M+3), Gabon (M+3), Rwanda (M+3), Burundi (M+3), North Republic (M+3), Argentina (M+3)
 * Motive: +6
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: +0
 * Economic Situtation: +5
 * Chance: 0
 * 09:33
 * 0*9*3*3=0
 * 0/1478=0
 * 0*pi=0
 * Total= 54

Union of Southern African States

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: South Africa (L+4), Botswana (M+3), Mozambique (M+3), Namibia (M+3), Madagascar (M+3), Malawi (M+3)
 * Motive: +10
 * Special Status: No
 * Morale: -1
 * Economic Situtation: +5
 * Chance: 0
 * Total= 40

Result
Zaire takes 3.48% of Southern African territory, or ?? pixels.

Zaire (Beligerent)

 * Locatiom: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Strength: Allied Help: +12 (CAR, North Republic, Argentina, Canada)


 * Industry: +3


 * Greater pop. (I think?) +3
 * Strength Total: +18
 * Motive: +6
 * Chance:
 * Total: +29

Location:
+5

Tactical Advantage:
+2

Strength
0

Motive:
+10 (Viva wants to incorparate)

Chance:
What? I have no idea what the instructions are asking me to do (edit count?)

USAS Total (without Chance):
+17

Result:
Looks like a crushing Zairain victory to me but...

Yup. Also, who's with me that we should probably stop the "conquer 10%" whatever. That just doesn't apply to modern warfare anymore. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:58, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

I quite like it. Otherwise what is there to stop implausarguments? (I just made up this word- tell me if you like it).

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 17:38, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

I like the word.90.244.87.67 18:07, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Ziear and alies have a poulation of about 135 million and S. Africa and alies have a poulation of about 54 million at about this time.The River Nile-2 (talk) 21:30, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

'''Thanks for offering to do an algorithm, David but there are several things wrong with this one so let's refer to the algorithm done above. AP (talk) 01:39, January 2, 2013 (UTC)'''