Talk:Mughal Empire (A Different History)

I doubt that the Mughals would still exist, even with the reforms. The Mughals didn't have just the problem of being Muslim in a Hindu state. I'd consider the Maratha Federation a more plausible scenario, if you want an old nation to control India. Fed (talk) 19:13, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

The Mughals existing is a very plausible when you move Aurangzeb out of the picture. Before that, everything was accepted, and the jizya tax was not in place. Aurangzeb was the one who restarted it and then lost all his money conquering the Deccan, but had his elder brother, Dara, had come to power, it would have survived. He was tolerant toward all faiths and dedicated to arts and culture. Also, the Mughals had a tradition of marrying a Hindu Rajput queen in order to cement their loyalty to their subjects. Plus the whole reason the British were able to get into India so easily, was due to the Maratha Confederacy not being united. The Mughals are a very plausible situation to work into this timeline, the Marathas are not. Batmanary 04:09, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Tw problems with this nation: 1. It would not likely be able to hold all that territory because of the Martha Confederacy waging war against it succesfully and 2. What use would the land be to them? the Mughal Empire just could not achieve that kind of power due to the much stronger European empires and because of the Qing Dynasty, which was in a position to succesfully wage war against the Mughals not to mention the civil war split its forces into two. Yes, the borders are almost fine, but overall expansion was not realy a choice for them, because they just did not have the weapons, production capcity, or anything that would have helped them conquer that territory. 174.60.86.95 12:40, March 13, 2011 (UTC)BlackSkyEmpire

Can you at least GREATLY reduce the borders? To the Indian subcontinent and Pakistan? Fed (talk) 17:01, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, it is very plausible. Like I said, they only went bankrupt when Aurangzeb came to the throne and enacted very discriminatory reforms. Then he invaded the south and bankrupted the Empire. Plus the Maratha Confederacy was born out of this discrimination. But had his grandfather, Jahangir, invaded the south, then everyone would be happy, and it would not have bankrupted the nation, due to the reforms placed by Akbar; he literally had that much money. Since he was also very liberal with religion, like Akbar and Shah Jahan, there would be no discrimination against Hindus, and the most likely outcome, is that the Marathi troops would join them. Also in this timeline, Aurangzeb fails to get the throne, and the eldest son, Dara Shiko, is the Emperor. Now Dara, was equally tolerant towards all people, leading to peaceful coexistence between Hindus and Muslims. Now because the South was already dealt with, all he had to focus on was Qandahar, and Samarqand, so he would get them. Also, the European powers were considered weak and primitive in Akbar-era, and let's say another POD, is that Akbar denies the request for the British to have an outpost in India, then that solves the European problem, for now. Trust me, this timeline is a plausible situation. Batmanary 17:54, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Points of Divergence/ undetailed Timeline

 * Akbar refuses Elizabeth's explorers the request for land.
 * Jahangir allows the land. He invades the South.
 * Shah Jahan creates the Twin Tajs (Taj Mahal and Taj Jahan). He creates reforms in the South.
 * Dara Shiko(1615-1669) beats the coalition of his brothers, and Bahadur Shah. He enacts more reforms, including bringing Hindus and Muslims equality with each other. He raises all of his sons to be tolerant, and well-minded, and allows local autonomy, creating the governing system (on the main page). He also plays the Europeans against each other, studying England's tech, and then going after French Settlements. This makes sure that England will always be on watch for France. He also apologizes to the Sikhs for his grandfather's killing of their Guru, thus creating a butterfly wave, making the Sikhs a peaceful religion.
 * His son, Muhammad Shah(1638-1704), creates a navy, and sends it out into the Indian coastline. He buys Portuguese India, Goa and Bom Baia, for an enormous sum of money, and keeps Bom Baia, now Bumbai, as an international trading zone.
 * His son, Alamgir(1664-1724), accelerates the technology developed and invades Persia and reconquers Samarkand. He finishes the magnificent Tomb of Bahadur Shah, which outshows the Twin Tajs as the greatest monument in all India.
 * Shah Alam(1680-1726) declares himself Khalifa, but he retracts it because of the term being unpopular with the Hindus. Shah Alam invades Calcutta and Madras, throwing the British out of India. He sends a head with them, to be presented to the Governor-General.
 * Shah Alam II(1700-1737) uses the Navy to destroy EIC Ships, trying to reclaim the land, and defeats them. He doesn't do much else.
 * Upon ascending the Peacock Throne, Zafar Shah(1721-1783), is only 16, but he starts programs to help regenerate money for the empire. Upon his later years, he invades the Turkic Khanates of the North, and eventually has to battle the Russians, in the battle of Temir Tau, a Russian settlement. He dies peacefully, in his sleep.

Nations page cannon
Did this page of the Nation's Page come first? Because the nation's page shows the nations of North Afghanistan and South Afghanistan, both of which are shown within the Mughal empire's borders. Michael Douglas 19:11, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

This page came first! Batmanary 19:20, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

It says cannon is first-come first served, so if this is ratifyed into the timeline first then the nations page is obsolete.Michael Douglas 19:27, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

This came first Batmanary 19:35, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Also, do you not recal lwhat Pita said? "I want as many nations as possible" and Mughal control over so much territory makes it harder to do so in Asia. BlackSkyEmpire 19:28, March 13, 2011 (UTC)BlackSkyEmpire The only countries that are really gone are Turkestan, Afghanistan and India/Pakistan. Everything else is fair game: Persia, Northern Turkestan (still works), Nepal, Assam, Burma, Siam, Malacca, Malaysia, China, etc. Sure, it controlls a lot of territory, but it definitely does not limit the amount of countries. Batmanary 19:35, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

No I made the nations page first.... so sorry, it can't go all the way to Afghanistan. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 21:25, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

I have an idea: What about if the Mughals had those lands but much later (about in 1947 or the likes) a series of bad emperors ascend, and, together with European interests, break apart into many different states, which for some years were independent and united (Afghanistan) until a "Cold War" of some sorts appears and Afghanistan becomes like OTL Vietnam before the Vietnam War. Fed (talk) 23:06, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but it wouldn't work, as Afghanistan is and was the heart of the empire. Now I could deal with the Mughals losing Afghanistan early, and then retaking it. It'll fit in the timeline I made already. (I really hope I can get it. I worked pretty hard on it, and losing the land would wreck the governing system and the titles.) Batmanary 23:19, March 13, 2011 (UTC)