Talk:Rise of Roses

Proposals
Note: When your article is completely done, ask if there are any objections to it being canon. If there aren't after 3 days, then make it canon. Once it is canon remove it from the proposal list here and on the RoR main page, then add it to the recent additions on the RoR main page. Add it to the top, and then remove one from the bottom. Also, add this template to your proposals, RoRProp to your proposal page.

Ottoman Empire
The previous four are nations made by me. Fedelede 18:11, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
So far my only contributions.--Smallpox 18:59, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Timeline
A general reference point.Eastward Expansion 16:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

PODs
The basic PODS of this TL Eastward Expansion 16:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ok guys! This page is complete! If there are no objections, or if everyone signs here saying they're ok with it being canon,
 * 1) Eastward Expansion 19:09, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Kareljanis 20:40, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

World News Network
The news on the Rise of Roses world. Fedelede 18:11, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

World War I
A page I'm doing to talk about this war. Eastward Expansion 22:08, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

General Discussion
WE absolutely must come to a decision soon, I uploaded four new potential maps.--Smallpox 20:32, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'd go with proposal 4. Kareljanis 20:36, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone know how to make those poll things? Personally, four is my least favourite, but none of these are the only decisions, feel free to add your own or negotiate an existing one.--Smallpox 20:43, July 14, 2010 (UTC) I thought we were going with this one, ( and besides all our current maps are based off of it)

And proposal 1, 2, and 3 are basically the same.Eastward Expansion 20:57, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Basically, yeah, none are really complete or truly correct though, we need some negotiation going on, you know what, I think I may create a page just for that.--Smallpox 20:59, July 14, 2010 (UTC)




 * This Wikipedia map gives an exact area to Louisiana; and a pretty good idea of California, Texas, and the Oregon Country. Perhaps we could incorporate it? - Mister Sheen 21:50, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the exact map I used for my original map, somehow we got stuck with a blob sitting in the middle of North America.--Smallpox 21:58, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

So all we have to do is change Louisiana. Eastward Expansion 22:03, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but don't cut it off at the 49th Parallel. - Mister Sheen 22:04, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, tommorrow I'll remake all the maps, but until then I'm busy doing the world war I page. You guys can follow this link and comment here! Eastward Expansion 22:07, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mister Sheen? Why do you hate the 49th parallel so much? Lord knows that if it happened in the real world it can happen in an ALTHIST, plus, isn't it much more Aesthetically pleasing?--Smallpox 22:21, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Although I agree with Mister Sheen, he does keep repeating himself a lot Eastward Expansion 22:23, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know, it's pointless really, just some little OCD-thing I guess. I just dislike straight borders, because they never seem "real". - Mister Sheen 22:28, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with that. Ok now I have go. Eastward Expansion 22:32, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean, Mister Sheen, but to me, the Canadian-American border the way it is the only straight border that feels "right" to me, and frankly the only one I really want to see, I don't understand how you see the 49th parallel as pointless, when its the one already established in the real world, if anything a new border would be the pointless one.--Smallpox 22:37, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean it's pointless for me to care so much, given that the real Louisiana border is so close to the 49th Parallel anyway. But as long as we're using the actual Louisiana borders, we may as well use the whole border; rather than editing parts of it to fit in with OTL. - Mister Sheen 22:43, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind having Louisiana's borders as they were in OTL, in fact I'd prefer it. If the 49th parallel was to be incorporated, Oregon would just like weird hanging off Canada's corner. That's why I prefer an Oregon War to be waged for the area. Kareljanis 00:39, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Karel, leaving Oregon as part of Canada is just ugly, should it be part of California or its own country, I vote for part of California, also, that was that bit of rupert's land below the parallel, I thought we could make that an Indian nation or something, but I guess we should just give that land to Loisiana.--Smallpox 00:43, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Maps
I'm still working on it, but if you just want it in general, read the intro, some of OTL great empires have survived, some have failed...Smallpox 20:25, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well yea, but that describes just about every timeline on this site.

I guess, but not really one specific event happens here!...Smallpox 20:31, June 11, 2010 (UTC)



Like this map?Eastward Expansion 21:09, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

It's pretty good! I'll make a version too, we can look at the differences and stuff then...Smallpox 21:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to make one with the colonial empires based on that. Fedelede 21:27, July 12, 2010 (UTC)



Sorry, I already created one kinda like it...

Eastward Expansion 21:37, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Nice use of colours to denote colonies and their overlords. Anyway, was there an introduction before, and it got deleted? I'm keen to know considering the buzz around this TL... Kareljanis 21:43, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I what about this for the colonies on maximum expansion?



Dark yellow= Italy

Light yellow= Spain

Blue= France

Grayish blue= England

Pink= Denmark

Light Blue= Germany

Light green= Russia

Orange= the Netherlands

Red= Ottomans

If you see any errors, please tell me! Fedelede 21:57, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I guess we should start making some doomsday like pages for this stuff soon, my idea of borders. We still need a name!...Smallpox 22:00, July 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just wondering, could I start an article for the Scottish Empire? - Mister Sheen 22:06, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Go crazy and go! I'll make a few new relative pages to help organize this more...Smallpox 22:09, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Smallpox, what about my map of the colonial era? Fedelede 22:13, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * You forgot Scotland! And no offense but I kinda like my map more...
 * Eastward Expansion 22:15, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * What about: I edit it to include something I wanted in Italy's side, then I present it as a new proposal, and then we make a poll to see what is the favoured proposal. Fedelede 22:24, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, my map was more in line with the pods you, me, and Smallpox all mentioned. What is it you don't like?Eastward Expansion 22:26, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meh. The only thing is that in my post about the Italian territories, I suggested that Italy had parts of the Gran Colombia. So I changed the light yellow in Colombia for a light green, and that's about it!
 * Smallpoxcolonial2.pngede 22:30, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Say, Mister Sheen you can use this map for the modern day Scottish Empire!
 * Great! Say, Mister Sheen you can use this map for the modern day Scottish Empire!
 * Great! Say, Mister Sheen you can use this map for the modern day Scottish Empire!




 * Scottish_Smallpox.png




























 * Now I'm creating a POD page since this Tl has so many PODs. How about we just call it somthing cool like "Blackout" Eastward Expansion 22:37, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Voila?...Smallpox 22:49, July 12, 2010 (UTC)




 * Ok, we can name in Voila. Just why do you want to name it that?


 * Eastward Expansion 23:05, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh no, that was a comment to go with the map I made as a proposal, that has seemed to disappear. We can name it Rise of the Roses?...Smallpox 23:08, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait, I don't get what were doing here, I'm thinking about making a page, first how do I calculate the population, and when should the timeline for the country go up to or down to? Ownerzmcown 00:18, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * When are we starting the proposal process?
 * We're starting right now! Don't forget to list all proposals on our Proposals section on the main page of this page. Ownerz, you can determine the population through population density and modern population information! It may require a bit of guessing...Smallpox 13:00, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was bored so I made this map...Smallpox 18:32, July 13, 2010 (UTC)Map_of_world_rise_of_roses.png
 * I was bored so I made this map...Smallpox 18:32, July 13, 2010 (UTC)Map_of_world_rise_of_roses.png

Finalized Map?
I've made a map of the Americas, using EastwardExpansion's World Map as a base (I only named countries which are different to OTL). But since there are a few conflicting World Maps, which is going to be the 'real' one? - Mister Sheen 19:09, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with most of EE's map, but I REALLY hate the shape he made Louisiana, it's just a big, formless blob, I also don't think Canada should have any pacific territory and I'm, not quite happy with the shape of east Asia. I also thought that Scotland could have Newfoundland and Labrador and Italy have New Brunswick instead...Smallpox 19:15, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'm making a new map with colors and names. What I have till now:



Fedelede 19:18, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, that was the shape of Louisiana, it stretched all the way up into modern-day Canada (and it certainly wasn't defined by the 49th parallel). I prefer California on your map, and I think you're right about Canada not having a Pacific Coast (thanks to Alaska). I honestly don't know anything about East Asia, so I can't comment on that. But I definitely don't think Nova Scotia (literally "New Scotland") could be Italian, since the Scottish already controlled it before 1706. Also Newfoundland was discovered by an Italian explorer (Giovanni Caboto, or John Cabot). - Mister Sheen 19:24, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * First of all, without the USA as a superpower, the Oregon Territory would be British (or in this world, English)
 * Eastward Expansion 19:29, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but suppose Louisiana, California and Alaska all fought the English over control of Oregon. - Mister Sheen 19:34, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, a great scenario. I was thinking it would be Canadian as Canada was a British colony, but that idea seems much more interesting. If Louisiana got independence just as it was IRL, I have no problem with it looking like that. As for East Asia, I knew there were issues in Qing China and later the civil war, so those could be the result of different nations. Finally, Cabot might have been Italian but he was sailing for the British. But that could be changed, this IS alternate history. Kareljanis 19:38, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cabot only sailed for the British because they hired him; if it had been a Unified State, he would probably have worked for Italy. - Mister Sheen 19:59, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then we must bring the Unification 100 years back and make the Unificator's name Cosimo de' Medici. Oh, also... What if Oregon is independent? Fedelede 20:00, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do we what Cabot to sail for Italy? Things get too confusing if we change the past over and over again. Let's keep Italian unification like it is.Eastward Expansion 20:03, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Forget Cabot, that was just me going off on a pointless side-track. Oregon could be independent; depending on if there is a War for Oregon, who fights in it, and who wins. - Mister Sheen 20:11, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering geography, I'd say California, Canada, Alaska, and Louisiana would all fight for Oregon. Looking at the map proposal above, it seems Louisiana and California get the most land; thus they seem to win. - Kareljanis 20:23, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Forget Cabot, that was just me going off on a pointless side-track. Oregon could be independent; depending on if there is a War for Oregon, who fights in it, and who wins. - Mister Sheen 20:11, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering geography, I'd say California, Canada, Alaska, and Louisiana would all fight for Oregon. Looking at the map proposal above, it seems Louisiana and California get the most land; thus they seem to win. - Kareljanis 20:23, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * What happens with Chile, Argentina and Patagonia in the maps? they are Spanish Territories? --Katholico 01:33, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Patagonia was Italian, while Argentina was Spanish. I think Patagonia includes Chile. Fedelede 01:47, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * On the Americas map above, Argentina is labeled as Pantagonia and Pantagonia is labeled as "South America" 01:57, July 14, 2010 (UTC)Eastward Expansion
 * Yeah, switch the labels on Patagonia and Argentina. And I thought that due to its different history and area, Argentina might have a different name; based on its Colonial name (United Provinces of South America); so I called it the United Republic of South America. Rename it if you like. - Mister Sheen 07:04, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Finally we have a Map!
Here is the new map. If you are in charge of one of the countries articles, check this often as we get nation specific maps

Eastward Expansion 00:46, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Nation specific maps,