Talk:Principia Moderni IV (Map Game)

Archives: to 10/27/16 ● to 12/22/16 =Algorithms=

Algorithms—the hard part of map games. This is where all of them are placed. It is mandatory to follow all the rules and strictly follow the procedure, rules, and computation of an algorithm, both of which can be seen here. You can see every algorithm below.

It's vital that you use exactly this format when writing or computing an algorithm, as it helps organization tremendously.

Formatting
Name of War (Years of War) [Use Heading 2]

Front Name [Only use this if there is more front in the war] [Heading 3]


 * Year
 * Pre-War Stage
 * Side I Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Population:
 * War Exhaustion:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Government:
 * Side II Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Population:
 * War Exhaustion:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Government:
 * Battle Stage
 * (Battle or Siege Name)
 * Side I Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Army/Navy Size:
 * Location:
 * Great General:
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition:
 * Side II Name (Attacking or Defending)
 * Result:
 * Army/Navy Size:
 * Location:
 * Great General:
 * Blunder:
 * Attrition:
 * Final Stage:
 * Side I Name
 * Cities Occupied:
 * Result:
 * Side I Name
 * Cities Occupied:
 * Result:
 * Overall Result:

Discussion [Heading 3]

Arab-Ethiopian War (1550-)

 * Pre-War Stage
 * Abbasid Caliphate: 155
 * Population: 120 (30 million)
 * Government: +5 (theocracy)
 * Economy: +15
 * Technology: +15
 * Empire of Ethiopia: 57
 * Population: 40 (10 million)
 * Government: +7 (monarchy)
 * Economy: +5
 * Technology: +5
 * Battle of Amhara
 * Abbasids: 16.3
 * Army Size: 24.3 (81,000)
 * Location: -8 (mountain city)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopia: 35.5
 * Army Size: 25.5 (85,000)
 * Location: +10 (mountain city)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Result:
 * Abbasid Score: (155+16.3)*1.35 (int nat'l empire) = 231.25
 * Ethiopia Score: 57+35.5 = 92.5
 * Battle Tier:Tier 1: 250%
 * Casualties: Convincing victory. Ethiopia loses 15% of forces, while the Caliphate loses 10%, plus an additional 15% loss for fighting in mountains
 * Battle of the Blue Nile
 * Abbasids: 15
 * Army Size: 18 (60,000)
 * Location: -3 (river in mountains)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopia: 34.5
 * Army Size: 25.5 (85,000)
 * Location: +9 (river in mountains)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Result:
 * Abbasid Score: (155+15)*1.35 (int nat'l empire) = 229.5
 * Ethiopia Score: 57+34.5 = 91.5
 * Battle Tier:Tier 1: 250.82%
 * Casualties: Convincing victory. Ethiopia loses 15% of forces, while the Caliphate loses 10%, plus an additional 15% loss for fighting in mountains
 * Second Battle of Amhara
 * Abbasids: 13.87
 * Army Size: 21.87 (72,900)
 * Location: -8 (mountain city)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopia: 31.625
 * Army Size: 21.625 (72,250)
 * Location: +10 (mountain city)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Result:
 * Abbasid Score: (155+13.87)*1.35 (int nat'l empire) = 227.97
 * Ethiopia Score: 57+31.625 = 88.625
 * Battle Tier:Tier 3: 250+257 = 507%
 * Casualties: Crushing victory. Ethiopia loses 75% of forces, while the Caliphate loses 6%. Ethiopia retreats to the capital
 * Second Battle of the Blue Nile
 * Abbasids: 13.2
 * Army Size: 16.2 (54,000)
 * Location: -3 (river in mountains)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Ethiopia:  31.625


 * Army Size: 21.625 (72,250)
 * Location: +9 (river in mountains)
 * Great General: 0
 * Attrition: 0
 * Blunder:
 * Result:
 * Abbasid Score: (155+13.2)*1.35 (int nat'l empire) = 229.5
 * Ethiopia Score: 57+31.625 = 88.625
 * Battle Tier:Tier 1: 250.82 + 258.99 = 509.81%
 * Casualties: Crushing victory. Ethiopia loses 75% of forces, while the Caliphate loses 6%. Ethiopia retreats to the capital

Discussion
This is going to be a long war -Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  05:49, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

=Complaints and Upgrades=

Changes to Current Map
'''This is the section where you add expansion, complaints, or changes for the map in the PMIV Map Game. Please make it easy to understand for the mapmaker the expansion that you committed. This means including the name of your nation, and maybe an OTL location, and sometimes a reference map. Note, color requests will not be granted, as we already follow a color scheme.'''

Requested Changes/Errors for Next Version
Mayapan was given a portion of land in the south of Mexica as a result of aiding Portugal. Cour *talk* 18:53, December 19, 2016 (UTC)

The following can be found in the Treaty of Madrid map.
 * Portugal owns Seville and Granada
 * Spain is now a junior PU of Portugal
 * Portugal owns Panama City and, at this point, probably all of Panama and more
 * France owns Barcelona
 * France owns Brasil (OTL São Paulo)

The following has happened since:
 * The Mayans became a colony of Portugal and united with the former Aztecs.
 * Portugal colonized New Orleans.

Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 10:48, December 20, 2016 (UTC)

Oman owns Socotra as of 1545. General534 (talk) 19:03, December 20, 2016 (UTC)

I'll get to work on this tonight, should be up by tomorrow  -Nova 07:23, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

Expansion of OTL New York colony, and Guyanas westward expansion. I am that guy (talk) 18:55, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

Changes Completed/Fixed in Next Version
This section is only for the mapmaker to post which changes were added to the next map, PLEASE DO NOT WRITE YOUR REQUESTS HERE.
 * Mayan Expansion
 * Burgundian Ceylon
 * Middle East
 * Oman Colonies
 * Bengal

Mod Event Complaint
When complaining, please include the year of the event that you are complaining about.

Concentrations
The Concentration system is new to Pm4. In this system, nations will either pick a concentration between the Army or the Navy, as no nations, with some extreme exceptions, could afford both at this period in time. How it will work is this:
 * 1) Nations will pick a concentration, assuming they have a choice. Nations that are landlocked can only pick Army, while nations like Genoa or OTL Venice can only pick Navy. You will need to recive mod approval for which ever you pick
 * 2) Your concentration can be officially changed every 30 years, although the mods may change it via event depending on the actions of your nations or wars you get involved in. An example of this would be something along the lines of the Spanish Armada. After a destruction like that, Spain would have to switch from Naval to Army because its prized navy was destroyed. Events like that can and will force changes in your concentraction.
 * 3) Your concentration will give you a 10% boost in the respective algorithim as long as it is changed without mod event.
 * 4) Simply add it to the table below to declare it (Add more rows if needed)
 * 5) If the cell with your concentration is green, that means you are currently getting the bonus. If it is red it was forced to change by a mod event. If it is gray it was never approved in the first place.

EDIT:Since there was some confusion on chat, I will explain. In AP Euro one of the thigns we discussed was what led to the rise of France and England as two of the dominant powers in Europe, and what made the two nations different. One of the things brought up is how even France, which during the rise of nation states, was among the richest and most powerful nations in Europe and the world. However, even they could not afford a powerful army and navy, so they where forced to choose between the two. France picked their army, and England picked their navy. Both nations had capable Armies and Navies, but the French navy was noticably weaker than the English navy and the English army was noticably weaker than the French Army.  This doesn't mean you can't develop both , but at this time, nations focused on one, often at expense of the other.

Explanations of lack of Approval
Feel free to dispute it in a civil manner, and if it gets out of hand you will get a three day game ban.

Colonization and Contact Confirmation
In order for you to colonize or explore another region of the world, you must be confirmed through this process. Message me with any questions or concerns. Add more rows as needed.
 * 1) You must follow all rules laid out in the rules page.
 * 2)  You must show two things to colonize: Capability and Motivation. If you lack one, you can not colonize
 * 3)  Your reasons must be confirmed by 3 mods. Even if you have waited 15 turns for an answer, it does not matter. Pester a mod into giving you a yes or no.
 * 4) Mods can say no. If one of them says no don't try and pretend they ignored it.
 * 5) You can only seek to confirm the nation you play as and nothing more.
 * 6) When seeking confirmation, you want to include the date you would begin colonizing. If you want to do it right away, put the turn of your request.
 * 7) If a mod finds this date to be too early or too late even, they should inform the player as such. Not every nation colonized at once so if you decide to try in jump in right away, even if you have the means and the motive to do so, you may be rejected because of the date.

'''IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY VOTES, IT MEANS YOU CANNOT COLONIZE OR EXPLORE. DO NOT TAKE SILENCE AS APPROVAL.'''

Access for Landlocked polities
Requiring 2/3 approval of mods, which currently means 4 mods.

Augsburg
Mods only
 * Yes
 * No
 * I know you would be able to make tiny ports like OTL Malta or something, but that gets so minor it might as well not even be mentioned Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  00:58, November 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * 22:45, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Abstain

Tier Upgrade
When requesting an upgrade, use the following format:

*Nation (player) **Current tier and tier you would like to be upgraded to **Provide reasoning **Mod response here

Discussion
=Information and Resources=

Current Map
1540

The New Algo is now Formated(by me)
So, Um, I took the liberty of formating the new algo for wiki. Made some minor syntax/spelling changes (ex. reare -- rare). If I screwed up too much please tell me, but I think that it would be best to give players access to the new algo proto, right?

Some of the things people wrote...lets just say I cleared some things up, wrote some explanations a bit more eloquently. If I screwed up too much, please let me know, and in the case that I did, well, its a good thing that This is not the official algo format then, eh?-Lx (leave me a message) 23:16, October 21, 2016 (UTC)

There will be one algorithm, for every front, every year a war carries on. This carries on until a treaty is signed or total victory is achieved by the victors. There are two stages to every algorithm—the pre-war stage, and the battle stage. The battle stage may be repeated up to six times per year, depending on how large the war is, in population and nation size. It is extremely important to read this page: War Mechanics, as it has more specifics on how the algorithm will work.

Location
Location is Determined by your location relative to your combatant.

The percentage of your population which can count towards the algo will change in relation to the region you’re located in. At maximum your population will count in full in one connected region from your home region. Sea zones do not count, and will be considered a detrimental region to all unless you maintain a naval concentration. Which negates this. While negating the sea attrition to your population score will be in full as you land on the land region.

For each movement beyond your initially no detriment region allowance. so moving from Say Eastern Europe to Western Europe (which has to go through central europe) 20% of your population will effectively not be counted in the algorithm to symbolize the difficulty of resupply of a major army abroad infrastructural issues etc etc.. If your invading another continent then you suffer an automatic 35% reduction of your population involvement. Unless your an empire which stradles continents (Byzantines, Ottomans, Russia just a few examples)

Extra continental invasions which are forced to cross more than 2 major sea regions or are geographically seperated as conventional history dictates, will suffer from major penalties

The least percentage of population included will remain capped at 5%

Region penalties are cumulative (i.e. add all that apply)
 * List of Region Modifiers for Attackers
 * Same Region: 0%
 * Bordering Region - Land: 0%
 * Bordering Region - Sea: -(20)%
 * Naval concentration: No penalty
 * Next Region over (add as applicable): -(20)%
 * On Same continent: No penalty
 * Other Continent:-35%
 * Multi-continental Empire: +35%
 * Stacking Penalty Limit: -95%

Example:

 * Naples with a naval concentration invades Southern France.
 * Naples starting region: Southern Europe
 * France Starting Region: Western Europe
 * Sea attrition (Med sea) which is canceled out by naval concentration.
 * Southern Europe to Western Europe with a naval concentration leaves out any attrition allowing the full force of the Neapolitan population to count.
 * (note a map will be made which will discuss and work out the specifics of regions. However before this time, mods should be relatively able to answer the questions about which region your nation resides in.

Population
The first thing done is an algo is that the population is found of the entire alliance for both sides—leading nation, allies, and vassals.
 * (Total Population * 0.02)/5000 = Score

Government
If the government of the leading nation is a ...
 * Great Nomadic Horde - +8
 * Celestial Empire (China, Japan) - +8
 * Absolute Monarchy - +7
 * Westminster Monarchy (England) - +6
 * Absolute Feudal Monarchy - +6
 * Elective Monarchy - + 5
 * Feudal Monarchy - +5
 * Iqta' (Islamic Feudalism) - +5
 * Theocracy - +5
 * Oligarchy/Council - +6
 * Warlord/Tribal - +5
 * Free City (Holy Roman Empire) - +5
 * Merchant Republic - +5

(more types will be added as we progress through the game and more modern types of government are invented.)

Economy

 * Tier I - +2
 * Tier II - +3.5
 * Tier III - +5
 * Tier IV - +6.5
 * Tier V - +8

Technology

 * Tier I - +5
 * Tier II - +7
 * Tier III - +10
 * Tier IV - +15
 * Tier V - +20

Tiers will scale with the time period and will be subject to moderator approval as well as my own. Note that tech tiers for coalitions will be counted as a weighted average based on troops sent to war.

Battle Stage
This stage may be repeated up to six times, depending on the size and scale of the war. Note that in this stage, "Attacker" does not mean the nation that declared war first, but means the nation that is in the enemy's territory, attacking enemy cities or troops.

Army/Navy Size
If you are having trouble with army sizes, or your suggested army size is implausible, ask any moderator for the maximum army size you can field. Army size includes all allies and vassals on the same front. Now on top of this in an era with enlarging populations, you can reconstitute your armies with roughly a 60% rebuild. Which means if your entire army is wiped out you can bring reconstitue upwards of 60% of the armies strength.

Finding Maximum Army/Navy Size

 * Army
 * Feudal Nations: 0.0075 times population
 * Absolute Feudal Monarchies: .01 times population
 * Absolute Monarchies: .02 times population (cannot be achieved until at least 1620)
 * Nomadic Hordes: 0.01 times population
 * Non-feudal Nations: 0.015 times population
 * Naval-concentrated, non-feudal nations: 0.01 times population
 * Navy
 * Merchant Republic: 0.0018 times merchant republic's population
 * Naval-concentrated nations: 0.0000936 times population
 * Normal Nations: 0.00003 times population

PRO TIP : You can send your entire military strength abroad in a fight but this will incur penalties such as revolts at home of nobility, Peasants, separatists. It is highly encouraged that unless you are fighting within a good marching distance of your home territory (neighboring nations in the region) the threat of revolt will be a decent possibility.. The more forces you deploy, further away, the more unrest at home you will have unless you have established or left a strong policing unit. (roughly 15-25% of your nation’s armed forces would be expected to be retained within the homeland for an extended campaign abroad and will be used as the general rule of thumb. This is generally only deterrent for smaller revolts like peasants and your own nobility rather than separatists and claimants to your throne is applicable.

Mercenaries
If you want to hire mercenaries to fight in wars, you must follow this formula. As all states hired mercenaries during this period well into the enlightenment age You have have a maximum 20% of your total military strength consisting of mercenaries. (Translation: you can multiply your troops by 1.25, but at a cost detailed below)


 * A mod will run an RNG to determine the behaviour of the mercenaries.
 * 1-3 = extremely professional fight on payment and promises of some sort of civilized loot system
 * 4-7 = Semi Professional, will cause some scale of looting damage to your own territory or whatever territory your own. Loot system is relatively disorganized and semi violent. Their unruly behavior over long period of time may anger your allies.
 * 8-10 = Unprofessional mercenaries. You have hired absolute scum, their looting system consists of burning the city, taking everything and murdering and raping the populous. Holding these troops on home soil can see national property damaged, and likewise for your allies lands. Your forces, and Allied forces will tolerate these men for a minimum of 5 years before the mercenaries are forced to leave the army for a different region.

Location of Battle
To find where land battle takes place, find the closest two major cities that is occupied by both sides. If the attacking player doesn't specify a plan, assume that the two armies will meet at a point between the two major cities.

All of the land categories are rather obvious, if a player has done their research then it should be relatively obvious what to classify everything as. A River of almost any type can be used, a Mountain range must be specifically labeled as a mountain range on historic maps, and if ignored mountain passes or river crossings in a different country could prove as a circumvention to your defense. Standard Protocol for most sieges, for most armies, is to outnumber the defending garrison by 3 to 1. As such, battles which assault cities and other strategic locations will follow this example. In the case of major cities and strategic forts, YOU MUST capture the city of fort to continue on into the country from that avenue. If you embark on a military campaign, a well-fortified position must be taken in a siege with the minimum 3:1 ratio to incur no penalty and can only be circumvented by Great Generals and Great Leaders. Conducting a Siege means that the involved manpower will not be available for other combat operations unless you pull them from duty to another front, or break the siege. If you attempt to bypass a well-fortified position a 20% penalty will be added to your final battle section score due to the exposed rear or flank of your army due to the massive strategic disadvantage left by a large enemy garrison based around a well-fortified position and capable of Harassing the attacking army. This is specifically true due to the increased viability of asymetric warfare which would impart casualties, attrition and a loss of morale.
 * Attacking-(Land Battle)
 * Near a major religious site: +5
 * Near the center of government/state: +4.5
 * Near a city: +3.5
 * Near a major river or the coast with naval superiority: +3
 * Near a populated border: +2
 * Near a major river or the coast: +1
 * Near a desolate location far away from anyone: 0
 * Attacking-(Land Battle in Hostile Mountains)
 * Near Capital: -10 (note very few nations capitals are in the mountains.)
 * Near/at City: -8
 * Near Major Fortress: -6
 * Near Religious site: -4
 * Normal attacking: -3
 * Decisive Battle: -3
 * Attacking-(Assault on a City/Fort)
 * Besieging a center of government/very well-fortified city: +8
 * Besieging a Strategic Fortress: +8
 * Besieging a major religious site: +5
 * Besieging a major city: +4
 * Attacking-Sea
 * Near/at Capital : +10
 * Near Major Fortress: +7
 * Near a major religious site: +5
 * Near the center of government: +4.5
 * Near a city: +3.5
 * Far from any coast: 0
 * Defending-(Land Battle)
 * Near a major religious site: +7
 * Near the center of government/state: +6
 * Near major friendly fortress : +5.5
 * Near a city: +4
 * Near a major river or the coast with naval superiority: +3.5
 * Near a populated border: +2
 * Near a major river or the coast: +1
 * Near a desolate location far away from anyone: 0
 * Defending-(Land Battle in Friendly Mountains)
 * Near/At Capital (if applicable): +16
 * Near Major Fortress/Majorly fortified city: +13
 * Near/At City: +10
 * Near Major River: +9
 * Coastal mountains: +9
 * Mountains: +7
 * Defending-(Assault on a City/Fort)
 * Besieged center of government/very well-fortified city: +12
 * Defending major Fortress: +9
 * Besieged a major religious site: +7
 * Besieged a major city: +4
 * Defending-Sea
 * Defending near landing site : +10
 * Near a major religious site: +5
 * Near the center of government: +4.5
 * Near a city: +3.5
 * Near the coast or in a major river: +1
 * Far from any coast: 0
 * Defending-(Battle on a Major River)
 * Near Capital (if applicable) +10
 * Near Major Fortress: +8
 * Defended River crossing: +7 (army must have at least 1 turn to establish necessary fortifications)
 * Contested River Crossing: +5 (army will meet the enemy at the crossing but has no built up defenses)
 * Penalties for Breaking Protocol
 * If you have 3 to 1 odds during a siege you will incur no penalties
 * If you have 2 to 1 odds, you will incur an extra 10% casualties and a 15% detriment to your score
 * If you have 1 to 1 odds or less, you will incur an extra 20% casualties and 25% detriment to your score.

There is also an annual Marching Limit for your forces, meaning that the location of a Battle must be within the marching limit of friendly-controled territory
 * Marching Limit Modifiers
 * Base Value: IDK, like 1500 km?
 * Insert other modifiers here

Great Generals/Leaders
Great Leaders may maintain control/good use over all elements of a nations military this means planning for all fronts

Great Generals are only able to lead within one army/front


 * Great General or Admiral
 * Great Leader - +45 (this would be considered a great king such as genghis etc etc, Event decided extremely rare)
 * General - +25 (Delegated via Event, can reach Great Leader status if they are able to take the throne. Much more common, usually requires distinguished service in a large good war.)
 * Admiral - +20 (Delegated via Event)

Attrition (Attacking)

 * Winter: (determined by RNG by uninvolved mod and if not applicable mod supervised uninvolved player)
 * Heavy Winter: 85% 1-2
 * Moderate Winter: 25% 3-6
 * Light Winter: 10% 7-8
 * Low Impact Winter: .5% 9-10
 * Mountains
 * Contested Mountains: 50% (this means plain and simple doing a mountain crossing, no historically traveled pathways etc etc)
 * Contested Mountain Pass 15%:
 * Contested River crossing: 5%

Blunder
RNG done by Unbiased, Uninvolved Mod

-0 to -5

Strategic Defenses
All nations will gain a maximum amount of 4 Strategic defensive areas (hinging on their population) and are used specifically to guard strategic choke points such as mountain passes, gaps in terrain, or important territories in the nation. For every 3 million people you will gain a strategic defense point/fort which will give a major boost to the defensiveness to a region and can effectively deter an enemy from a major offensive. They take roughly a decade to construct and prepare, and are a significant investment by the country. Their placement is roughly the same as a heavily fortified city, and in order to place these (and determine their coverage or even necessity as you can be denied if you lack the necessity) you must give a legitimate area for this fort, and give a predicted region of coverage. If they do not match up you will be denied. This will be handled by the resident algorithm moderator.

Casualties

 * Battle Tier 1: 15% of the losing force is lost. This requires both nations being within at least 25,000 troops of each other in the battlefield. In a Siege battle 10% of the losing forces will be killed wiped unless on the 2nd algo or a resounding defeat.
 * Victors: will incur 10% casualties in this Tier. In a Siege battle the Attacker will incur 13% casualties
 * Battle Tier 2: 30% of the losing force will be wiped out or captured. In a Siege 25% of the defeated force will be destroyed. (not applicable in a second algo defeat or in this case a siege which equates to the necessary amount to take a strategic fort or city)
 * Victors: Will incur 6% casualties. In a Siege they will incur 15% casualties.
 * Battle Tier 3: 75% of the losing force is wiped out or captured. In a Siege the entire force is wiped out or captured
 * Victors: Will incur 2% casualties. In a Siege 5% of the attacking force suffers casualties
 * Battle Tier 4: Losing force ceases to exist. In a Siege the the Losing force also ceases to exist
 * Victor: Attacking force takes minimal casualties. Siege, Attacking force takes .5% of casualties

Attacker
If an enemy is not within the 25,000 mark on troop comparison then all these values will be halved for the attacker. If the enemy has 50,000 less than you then they are halved once again. (this applies to the attacker.) This applies in every order of magnitude (and will be subject to change when populations have expanded enough to warrant the changing of the numerical amounts)

Defender
If an enemy attacking you is not within the 25,000 mark all values will be halved for the Defender. At another order of 25,000 the values will be halved again. (this is subject to change following the increase in population which will change the numerical values)

Victory or Defeat
To achieve a victory or be subject to a defeat, a few things must happen. You must have seized or won decisive battles or sieges in the territory in question. No longer will 200% clear an enemy from the battle all together.

To win victories the enemy must be defeated in the field or beaten while sieging. Just showing up with an army will not guarantee you victory.


 * Battle Tier 1 - 200-300% - Winner has won a battle with the enemy convincingly but not decisively (normal battles). Enemy can regroup and retreat in good order. In the case of Sieges a second algo is required as 500% will be minimum for sieges of fortified cities and major forts.
 * Battle Tier 2 - 300-500% - Winner has won a decisive battle and the enemy retreats in good order but with a decent amount of casualties.
 * Battle Tier 3 - 500-900% - Winner has won a crushing decisive victory enemy forces have suffered at least 40-50% casualties and are retreating out of the region. If caught in a city when this happens the garrison is entirely wiped out or taken prisoner.
 * Ultimate Tier - 900%+ - Winner has shattered the enemy into a full scale retreat from this region and any adjoining ones. The army will attempt to retreat to the nearest fortified city to regroup 55-60% casualties are expected. In the case of a siege the entire force is wiped out with a significant surrender as well. -5 for the next algo for the loser in this situation due to the morale of such a significant loss. That -5 morale de-buff will last 1 year.

Economic Tiers

 * Tier 1 +3
 * Everyone not listed in the other tiers
 * Tier 2 +5
 * Chimu
 * Hungary
 * Croatia
 * All other Player HRE states
 * Tondo
 * Majapahit
 * Tier 3 +10
 * England
 * Ottomans
 * Bengal
 * Poland
 * Russia
 * Brandenburg
 * Austria
 * Norway
 * Papal States
 * Khmer
 * Swahili
 * Oman
 * Tier 4 +15
 * Caliphate
 * Persia
 * Korea
 * Japan
 * Milan
 * Delhi
 * Sicily
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Portugal
 * Bulgaria
 * Bahmanid
 * Tier 5 (best) +20
 * China
 * Iberia
 * France
 * Burgundy

Tech Tiers

 * Tier 1 +3
 * (this is for tribes and non metalworking societies)
 * Tier 2 +5
 * Chimu
 * Mexica triple alliance
 * All Higher Native Civilizations, baring the Chimu, haven’t worked too much on metallurgy so I’m not sure if they would make the cut.
 * Tier 3 +10
 * France
 * Hungary
 * Bahamanid
 * Denmark
 * Sweden
 * Norway
 * Croatia
 * Ottomans
 * Korea
 * Tier 4 +15
 * Iberia
 * Austria
 * Poland
 * Milan
 * Two Sicilies
 * Bulgaria
 * Gurkani
 * Greece
 * The Caliphate
 * Portugal
 * Brandenburg
 * Poland
 * England
 * Burgundy
 * Tier 5 (best) +20
 * China

Discussion
=General Discussion=

Quitting/Resigning as Mapmaker
Due to the fact that the moderator team is at best inconsistant, and the fact that as of late they have started using there mod events to alter the actual internal affairs more than they should have, I resign as China and herby give up my mapmaking duties.

Also due to the fact this was the only part of wiki I was active on, I also feel it is prudent to leave the wiki once and for all.

-Nova 19:21, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

Nova: *is barred from colonizing a bunch of useless islands* *quits*

I am that guy (talk) 19:38, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * IATG, please refrain from being rude. Thank you. 23:02, December 22, 2016 (UTC)