Talk:Principia Moderni III (Map Game)

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Algo Template (WIP)
This algo template is being worked on in order to standardize algos, which will make it simpler for mods to check them and fix them. Once this algo template is declared official, a mod (probably me) will declare that at the start of the turn following the declaration, all algos must follow this format and if not, they will not be regarded as valid.

Feel free to comment about the algo template, suggest something that would increase it's effectivity, ask questions, or even suggest changes to the algo. Note that no matter what, nothing but the hundreth/thousandth digit of the Edit Count / UTC time * pi will be bolded in the algo.

Cheers, SkyGreen24 17:33, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

===Attacker=== *Location: **Location Bonus: *Tactical Advantage: *Nations Per Side: *Military Development: *Economic Development: *Expansion: *Motive: **Modifiers: *Chance: **Edits: **UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = ** /  * pi = *Nation Age: *Population: *Participation: *Number of Troops: *Theaters of War: *Concurrent Wars: Total: ===Defender=== *Location: **Location Bonus: *Tactical Advantage: *Nations per side: *Military Development: *Economy Development: *Infrastructure: *Expansion: *Motive: **Modifiers: *Chance: **Edits: **UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = ** /  * pi = *Nation Age: *Population: *Participation: *Recent Wars: *Troops strength: *Theaters of War: *Concurrent Wars: Total: ===Result=== ===Discussion===

Industrial algo update
Due to us beginning to drive into the industrial age, the algo needs to be updated accordingly, With this having happened in PMII with decent success (and one of our redeeming qualities that someone always updates the maps usually) we will be replicating this here (support was shown by multiple mods a few of which were PMII veterans.) This will be represented on a map much like the Game map, but with the colors replaced to represent differing industrial levels and when they started. A Chart to represent will go below this post and just above that a map (currently in progress) will be posted to represented our first industrializers. In extenuating circumstances the chart can be superceded to show a change in industrial development quicker than represented on the chart but this will only be for Meiji, or rapid German industrialization efforts.

In the algo a n algorythm multiplier would be applied to all wars with the side with a higher stage gaining 10% extra for each stage higher they are. an example would be in a war between Britain and France, the British are 3 stages ahead of the French in terms of industrial development (for whatever circumstance caused this) the British would multiple their ending score by 1.3.

If anyone is wondering, currently industrialization will be mostly in europe with a select few nations outside of the continent it would be currently taking place (nations with a realistic reason to adopt it as such such as asian nations with a extremely anti-colonial attitude, or something along the lines of Japan.) Industrialization in the Americas (when stuff goes independent) will depend on how the territory is when it gains independence and will more than likely have to be handled on a case by case basis like the outside of Europe industrializers. Stage 1= Stage 2​= Stage 3= Stage 4​= Stage 5= Stage 6​= Stage 7=
 * The Air Furnace is developed
 * Agriculture begins to rapidly shift with fertilizers and rest years for the fields
 * Chemistry develops in leaps and bounds
 * Steam Power is developed and water wheels are heavily utilized
 * Various chemicals are produced in large amounts
 * Health care and anatomic understanding improve, birth rates still high but death rates on a massive decline
 * Urbanisation begins on a significant scale
 * Paper mills develop with the tech to produce large reels of paper
 * Cloth factories begin using machines and steam power to increase productivity massively to keep up with population boom's clothing demand
 * Some revolutionary rumbles appear
 * Experimental Railways begin to crop up
 * Stronger cements are produced
 * Steel and Glass are avaliable
 * A few colonies and nations will have rebellions in this period
 * Ironclads and Artillery become widely used in combat
 * Revolutions by poorer citizens in cities become frequent
 * Wide use of civilian and military purpose use railways
 * Tanks and planes appear
 * Total War emerges with populations also targetted
 * Nationalism appears in larger multicultural nations
 * Atomic age begins a decade before the start of this age with certain nations able to make nuclear weapons
 * Wars between atomic powers CEASE, due to the threat and consequences of nuclear war
 * Colonies rebel for independence

Discussion
As Said Above, Industrialization aside from a few cases (and a case by case evaluation of tier jumps such as a US/German rapid industrialization, or a Japan Meiji or an Asian anti colonial reasoning) will be mostly within Europe and the Americas initially. As a relatively new person to the industrial tier buisiness i will be consulting PMII vets on how it was implemented but for right now due to ease the only two current industrializing states are France and Spain (and the other particulars will be worked out before another one joins the mix). Please bear with us while i gather the needed information to implement this properly.

The intended purpose of this is to prevent an unindustrialized state such as a disorganized tribe being able to deal a true and terrible blow to the Great industrial powers since this rarely happened, (and when it did it was usually due to vast numerical superiority, and even then it only happened once or twice). This is also to simulate a war and the vast advantages provided by industry in this case.

In the case of colonies, that can/will be handled by the mother nation. Plausibly most nations did not let directly owned colonies to industrialize (which is in fact represented by the fact that most colonies will be represented by the mother nations industrial colors). Colonies, under certain circumstances will be allowed to industrialize independently, and due to the access to technology and depending on their terms of industrialization (if they fought a 15 year war of independence like most of Spain OTL colonies) then industrialization will be a rather tough thing to propose to a new nation that would be essentially bankrupt right off the bat. Colonies that Gain Self rule or co-opting rule of any kind will also be able to industrialize in most cases due to the relatively open nature in which its being done. However a problem with this is how will you as a Colonial power manage your self ruling colonies industrial policy without inciting revolt.

This Era must be played carefully while the pertinent information is being discussed please be patient, but for now play on, enioy the game, and plan your moves Carefully

Map Issues
''' The issues of the previous map shall be cleared after each map to save up space, unless a discussion is still going on. '''

The Andaman and Nicobar islands (Excluding the Ceylon one) should be under Bengali control and coloured as such. These islands were under control of Bengal for around 400 years (Until Hindustan Collapse) and were populated with Bengalis, given that there was no native population of the island. Therefore, it would not make sense for one to suggest that after Hindustans collapse, the islands joined Burma (With whom they have neither religious, nor ethnic or cultural ties) instead of Bengal.

I have owned the city of Nellore, India for around 150 years, ever since I bought it from Urdustan. Can someone color it my color in the next map, please? I am that guy (talk) 20:23, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Algonquia has vassalized those Midwestern native states. Thanks, Shikata ga nai! 12:53, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I heard vassalation was stopped a while ago. Saturn120 14:08, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Hi, sorry to be a pain, but the Oldenburger colony in Greenland appears to be coloured in the Croatian black-green, rather than the lighter Oldenburg green. It could just be my monitor, so if it is I apologise. If not, would it be possile for it to be recoloured? Thanks,  Callumthered (talk) 08:10, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Algonquia has expanded north extensively over the past few decades, and it should resemble this by now. Could it be added?Shikata ga nai! 12:15, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Over the last 20 years, Borealia has expanded significantly in Alaska and the midwest. This is what it should look like now: Nathan1123 (talk) 16:29, April 26, 2015 (UTC)



Labelled


These great and wonderful maps have been made and labelled by Scandinator. Please be sure to thank him for his intense dedication and deep-level research that he put into these maps.

Cultural


Now, I will attempt to list the myriad of cultures that are represented on the map. To do so, I will go by continent.

It is finished! 01:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Religious Map
Alright, added another religion map. Map is based off of the 1655 Map. Same rules apply: List all changes below in the Notes section.

18:46, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

Color Key

All regions are shown according to their plurality religion.

Catholicism is yellow; the Western Church nations are shown in dark gold, and Catholic states whose churches function independently of the Roman Church are shown in pale yellow. Ludwigism is shown in bright gold. Eastern Orthodoxy is orange; Oriental Orthodox sub-branches are burnt orange. *Reformism is red. Sunni Islam is lime green, Shia Islam is forest green; Ibadiyya Islam is dark green, Assafi Islam is bright green, and Paganistic Islam is mint green. The Mastorava is teal blue, Hinduism is sky blue, and Buddhism is dark blue; the Bon religion is pale blue, and Mongolian Buddhism is grey-blue. Confucianism is purple, while Shintoism is violet. Other "pagan" religions are pink; the Mesoamerican pantheon is light pink, the South American pantheon is hot pink, the North American pantheon is fuchsia, and the African pantheons are all dark pink. Other religions will be added as needed.

Notes
 * Added Charismatic Christianity and Mogul Khanate is now Charismatic king Trevor 1 of wales (talk) 12:38, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Mod Event Grievances
Just so that it doesn't clutter the page, please post your mod event questions, comments and grievances here. This -should- be archived every five years.

=General Discussion=

Intro
As we all know, the PMIII algo is seriously biased towards the number of nations participating. And so, the mods (mostly me, Crimmyboo and MP) set forth to find a solution. And Pita suggested his new algo for AvA, which I decided to look into.

So I did. Since Pita is Asian, his mathematical skills are unsurpassed, which allowed me to more or less take the algo, with minor tweaks and adjustments. I hope you all read it through and give me your opinion on it.

Note: The industrial update will have a heavy impact on the algo, since we lack tiers. Second note: I'm using tabbers now, tabbers are cool. EDIT: Tr0ll doesn't like my tabbers. Third note: Numbers are not rounded up/down anymore. Everything stays the way it is.

Location
Location is a tricky one, since it usually only factors in the distance, while I also want to factor in the speed of transport etc.

Mostly, location goes by capital city, however I disagree with that. It will also include locations that are militarized (i.e. Rhein area pre-WW2). As you might've noticed, all but the 'at' locations are italicized. Why? Well, because the infrastructure and industrial development of a nation highly impact its ability to mobilize and get to a location in a set time period. Which is why each of the 7 stages will be given a multiplier that will affect the location.
 * At the location of war: +15
 * Next to the location of war: +8
 * Close to the location of war: +4
 * Far from the location of war: -4
 * Other side of the world: -8

Tactical advantage
This one will not be impacted by industrial stages, atleast not until modern times.
 * Attacker’s advantage: +2
 * Defender’s advantage: +5
 * Surprise attack: Attackers +6
 * Home is island: Defenders +4
 * Home is desert: Defenders +6
 * Home is jungle/tropical: Defenders +8
 * Home is tundra/arctic: Defenders +10 in winter, +12 in spring
 * Amphibious landing: Defenders +6

Strength
I decided to stay true to the ol' PMIII algo and thus, strength won't be that similar to AvA. Instead, a system similar to PM's Nation-per-side will be used.
 * L - +Industrial stage
 * M - +0.75 Industrial stage
 * S - +0.5 Industrial stage
 * V - -0.25 Industrial stage
 * 3 or more V and PU (PU=L) - -0.25 per extra V/PU (starting from the third one)
 * Much larger economy - +5
 * Larger economy - +3
 * Better military (weapons, armour, training, number etc.) - +3
 * Fully mobilized - +3
 * Naval dominance: +5

Motive
Motive was obviously going to be more PMIII-akin than Ava-akin, however I also decided to add a Sky twist to it. Vassal motive:
 * Economic (Gains land, resources, etc): + 3
 * Aiding Ally: + 3
 * Defending territory not held for more than 20 years: + 4
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 5
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike against a nation rapidly building military forces: + 5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral/Ideological/Religious Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 7
 * Attacking to enforce political hegemony: +7
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 5
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10 (pre-nuclear era), + 15 (post-nuclear era)
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 10
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 15
 * If a vassal that is fighting has revolted within the last 30 years, its motive is multiplied by 0.75

Motive is averaged

Morale
Morale is now separated from motive, as motive only affects the soldiers, while morale affects the whole population of a nation. Total morale is calculated in the same way as motive
 * Non-democratic Government: -2
 * Democratic government: +3
 * Government not supported by people: -10
 * WAR not supported by people (democratic) : -3
 * WAR not supported by people (non-democratic): -2
 * Troop Morale high (requires motive over or equal to 5, chance over 4, and larger strength: +5
 * Troop Morale low (any of the following: chance below 1, srength less or equal to 50% of opponents, recent war penalty over 8): - 5
 * Fighting Guerrilla War: -5 attacker, + 1 defender
 * Multiple concurrent wars: -10 (per nation and its vassals and PUs)
 * Defeat suffered within the previous two years: -2 per defeat

Chance
Good ol' chance. This one stays the same For NPCs, the chance will be defined as the thousandth place of z, using the exact same algorithm as the player nation.
 * Edit number = x
 * War declaration time digits multiplied (0s are treated as 1s) = y
 * x/y*pi = z
 * Chance = Hundredth place of z

Population

 * The population score is the number of digits in the population + the additional bonus, which is below:
 * +2 to the larger nation that is less than five times the population of the smaller.
 * +10 if the larger nation is between five and ten times the population of the smaller.
 * +20 if the larger nation is more than ten times the population.

Nation age
Goes by the last major change in the system of government.
 * Newborn nation (less than 5 years since gov change; 3 years if popular revolt) = -10
 * Young nation (5–25 years since government change) = -5
 * Maturing nation (25–75 years) = +0
 * Mature nation (75–200 years) = +5
 * Old nation (200–300 years) = +0
 * Ancient nation (300–500 years) = -5
 * Antique nation (more than 500 years) = -15

Recent wars

 * -2 for Leadership in any war in the past 15 years.
 * -1 for and Military or supply support in the past 15 years

Troop number
Same as old algo, the larger gets divided by the smaller.

Other stuff

 * Participation: +10
 * Treaty breaking: -5
 * Alliance breaking: -10
 * If your nation has recently had a popular revolt soon after a new weak government was formed (like Adolf Hitler or Napoleon Bonaparte) your score is multiplied by 1.5 for all wars in the next ten years. However, you cannot have multiple popular revolts of this nature in a row without government changes in between.
 * City-states get a *0.5 modifier for the amount of territory they lose in the initial results algorithm and can take territory so long as the nation they take it from has territory to take close enough for the city-states to rule without it being considered a colony.
 * If you take 33.33% of your opponent's territory or more, you can topple their government and do whatever is plausible to their nation that you wish.
 * It may be implausible for a nation to take or lose the full amount of territory listed in the algorithm.
 * You can add together winning percentage scores in order to total 33.33% if all of the wars happened within a 30 year period.
 * A popular revolt requires over 33.33% to be put down, while one that isn't popular only requires a victory.
 * Small ports (e.g. Shanghai, Hong Kong), cannot be a nation in a war unless that port specifically is being attacked.
 * For measuring the length of wars, the turn war is declared counts as the first year if fighting takes place in it. So for example, if the algo says the war lasts three years, then the turn the war was declared counts as the first IF the target was also invaded. It is possible to not invade the turn war is declared, although this gives the enemy the possibility of mobilizing.

Result
The same as before.

(x/(x+y))*2-1=z

z*(1-1/(2*t))=%

Post your opinions below, hopefully with constructive criticism.

Algo reform discussion
Can we remove the tabs? All they're doing is hiding the content and making it harder to read. Also what does this reform do to address the actual problems that led to it? What does it do for vassals, for example? Also with this system an independent Gotland would probably repulse the entire Empire of Scandinavia, since they'd get +29 in tactical advantage alone. Tr0llis (talk) 16:25, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Here's what I'd rather see, instead of basically all of this (EDIT: When I said all of this I meant location and tactical advantage. Sky has since edited to add more, which I have yet to read). Note I did not write this, and it is not finished. it's just a snippet I found: {{Hidden|snippet|

Location
Location goes by attacker's closest territory and defender's targeted territory, in which fighting actively takes place.

Attacker


 * 20 - Borders territory of enemy where fighting is actively taking place, in same continent
 * 15 - Attacking territory on the same continent, traveling primarily by land.
 * 10 - Attacking distant territory on the same continent or across major bodies of water; attacking neighboring subcontinents or regions (France to Russia, United Kingdom to Denmark, Germany to Syria).
 * 5 - Attacking territory on a distant continent (United States to Germany, Spain to Mexico).

Defender


 * 25 - Defending territory is part of core territory/homeland; area under attack is near capital or in easily accessible area from it.
 * 20 - Defending neighboring territory within home continent.
 * 15 - Defending distant territory or important/large territory on another continent (United Kingdom defending Canada or India).
 * 10 - Defending vastly distant or minor possession (United Kingdom defending Singapore).

Each nation or possession involved in combat gets a location, and each location is added up then divided by number of nations per that side.

Supply Lines
Attacker
 * 10 - Attacking an area that borders core sections of nation; easily accessible to troops and supplies.
 * 5 - Attacking distant area on continent, or via amphibious landing.
 * 0 - Attacking on the other side of the world, and/or with amphibious landing.

Modifiers
 * Added to each nation that is less than ten for supply lines:
 * 2 - Attacker has major empire at least twice as large as home nation.
 * 2 - Attacker has supporting fleet connecting their home nation to battlefield.
 * 2 - Attacker has intermediary territory between their home nation and the battlefield that can be used to supply or safe guard ships.
 * Added once:
 * -10 - Subjected to scorched earth retreat.
 * -10 - Blockade completely cutting off supplies to front lines.

Defender
 * 10 - Defending home territory or neighboring/nearby areas.
 * 5 - Defending disconnected or distant territory.

Modifiers
 * Added to each nation that is less than ten for supply lines:
 * 2 - Defender has major empire at least twice as large as home nation.
 * 2 - Defender has supporting fleet connecting their home nation to battlefield.
 * 2 - Defender has intermediary territory between their home nation and the battlefield that can be used to supply or safe guard ships.
 * Added once:
 * -10 - Subjected to scorched earth retreat.
 * -10 - Blockade completely cutting off supplies to front lines.

Tactical Advantage
Attacker
 * 25 - Utilizes blitzkrieg or rapid overpowering by advanced technology or superior numbers (WW2 Germany, Revolutionary France, European Subjugation of natives).
 * 20 - Is on equal footing to defender in terms of technology.
 * 15 - Amphibious landing or distant invasion; charge against superior defenses.
 * 10 - Raid or low quality attack.

Modifiers (Once per side)
 * Superior Numbers: 5
 * Siege weapons or artillery: 5

Defender
 * 20 - Defending

Modifiers (Once per side) }}
 * Superior Numbers: 5
 * High quality fortifications: 5

Tr0llis (talk) 16:30, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Could've atleast waited till I finish it. However I will look into it. SkyGreen24 16:47, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

EDIT: I tried to implement the snippet version in previous algos, and it just doesn't cut it (note: I used 1 on 1 algos, to avoid the issues of the previous algo). I'm going to use the initial one, but with an adapted tactical advantage. SkyGreen24 18:17, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Just a question, could we have a mock war with multiple nations per side just to see how its implemented for future reference?-Lx (leave me a message) 20:23, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Sure, but I need ideas for participants, if you could help mayhaps? SkyGreen24 16:34, April 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * A war with multiple indian states perhaps? that area of the world is both fractured and devoid of player-states it seems.-Lx (leave me a message)Azarath Flag.png 19:48, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Results

 * The dark green portion of the map is ceeded to the Commonwealth of BorealiaBorealia1.png
 * The remaining portion of California is set up as an independent government economically and politically dependent on Borealia (but as an NPC, not a vassal)
 * The Curia will pay the local governments of California monetary compensation for any inconvenciences.

Proposed Rational

 * We have been influencing the region for over 25 years (since 1803 I think). That entitles us to 50% of Calfornia's territory
 * Because this is more than 33%, this also entitles us to vasselize the region. However, I will keep it as an NPC so someone else can play it.
 * California's government is in chaos and the local authorities are desparate for change

Discussion
Questions? Concerns? Outrage? Nathan1123 (talk) 18:26, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

That's not how it works, that's French territory. You can't directly cede it.

However, with a long enough influence time you could potentially instigate a revolt in the French territory there, and go to war with France. And now that the new algo is up, I allow it. SkyGreen24 18:40, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

So I'm going to be the guinny pig for testing the new algorithm? Awesome.

As my very first algorithm it will be tricky. Nathan1123 (talk) 18:54, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Borealia
Total: 74.9166...
 * Location: 15+8+4/3=9
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+4+5+3+4+2.25+3
 * Motive: 7+5+7/3=6.33...
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 178
 * UTC (19:15) = 1*9*1*5 = 45
 * 178/45 * pi = 12.42674427
 * Nation Age: 3.33...
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/100,000=1
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

France
Total: 45.5
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 4+3+3+3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 4786
 * UTC (19:15) = 1*9*1*5
 * 4786/45 * pi =334.125832
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 100,000/200,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(74.9166.../(74.9166...+45.5))*2-1=0.244290657*1.5=0.366435986

You can topple in 6 years.

Discussion
I opt you let me do the algo, since we're using the new one now. SkyGreen24 19:12, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Be my guest. Nathan1123 (talk) 19:13, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Done, I'm not sure if I should add the civil disarray multiplier tho. SkyGreen24 19:59, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

I assumed I would get it, in light of the recent mod events Nathan1123 (talk) 20:02, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I tweaked the algo further, so we're back at the old result calculation. And yeah, you're getting the multiplier. SkyGreen24 21:56, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

Just FYI, Algonquia is sending aid and troops to assist Borealia in the war. Shikata ga nai! 22:48, April 5, 2015 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I should be recieving considerable aid from New Bavaria, Reme, and Algonquia (didn't see that one coming). Nathan1123 (talk) 00:32, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

I know, I'd just been too lazy to do it. But now it's done. SkyGreen24 07:44, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

For the sake of completeness, Arcadia is also sending military aid Nathan1123 (talk) 15:59, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Reme
Total: 76*1.1=83.6
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3-10
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 87,500/25,000=4
 * Theaters of War:

Nation A
Total: 52
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale -2-5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:

Reme
Total: 81*1.1=89.1
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3+5
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3-10
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 62,500/25,000=3
 * Theaters of War:

Nation B
Total: 52
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 10
 * Morale -2-5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 3544
 * UTC (01:58) = 1*5*8 = 40
 * 3544/40 * pi = 278.3451091
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:

Results
A: (83.6/(83.6+52))*2-1=0.233038348*1.5=0.349557522

B: (89.1/(89.1+52))*2-1=0.262934089*1.5=0.394401134

B is toppled in 4 years (B is the coastal one)

A is toppled in 11 years

Results
So, given that the last war was more or less open and shut and I don't believe there is any cause to doubt a similar outcome, for the sake of simplicity and efficiency, I'm going to call this as a victory for Castile. "This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:42, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total:101
 * Location:20+15+20=18
 * Location Bonus:+1
 * Tactical Advantage:+1
 * Nations Per Side: Andea (L) Apeac (LV) Brazilian Rebels (L) =+13/3=4.3=4
 * Military Development:58+10+5=73/16=4.5=5
 * Economic Development:52-2=50/7=5.7~6
 * Expansion:-1
 * Motive:7(Brazil)+3(Andea)+3(Apeac)=13/3=4
 * Modifiers:+6+6
 * Chance:8
 * Edits:1903
 * UTC (ABCD) = 0 * 3 * 0 * 7 =21
 * 1903/21 * pi = 284.688
 * Nation Age:0
 * Population:+8+20=28
 * Participation:+10
 * Number of Troops:40k/30k=1, Ships=5/40=0
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Defender
Total:66
 * Location:+25
 * Location Bonus:+1
 * Tactical Advantage:+1
 * Nations per side:Portugal (L)=+5
 * Military Development:13,0
 * Economy Development:7,0
 * Infrastructure:7
 * Expansion:0
 * Motive:5
 * Modifiers:4
 * Chance:8
 * Edits:
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D =
 * / * pi =
 * Nation Age:-15
 * Population:+7
 * Participation:+10
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Troops strength:+8
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Result
20% max 10% in 2 years.

Discussion
Most of the Numbers (Scores, Troops, Pop) where confrimed by MP. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 03:28, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

You do understand that we're using the new algo, right? SkyGreen24 08:52, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

No I didn't cause it said WIP.

Attackers
Total:74.15
 * Location:+8(*.75)+8(*.75)+8(1)=6+6+8=20/3=6.6
 * Tatical Advantage: Attacker and Suprise:2+6=8
 * Strengh: Andea (3) Apeac (3-.25) Brazil (4)=9.25
 * Motive: 7(Brazil)+3(Andea)+3(Apeac)=16/3=5.3
 * Morale:Brazil (+3) Andea (+3) Apeac (+3)=+3+5
 * Chance (Same As Above):=8
 * Population:+8+10=18
 * Nation Age:+0
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Numbers (Same as Above):+1
 * Particpation:+10

Defenders
Total:37
 * Location:15*1=15
 * Strenght:+4
 * Motive:+5
 * Morale: (Giving them the benifit of the doubt):+3
 * Chance (same):+8
 * Population:+7
 * Nation Age:-15
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Numbers:+8
 * Participation:+10

Result
33% max

16% in a year, 25% in 2.

Disscussion
Having done this algo, I do have some critiques.

Algonquia
Total: 61.5
 * Location: 8*0.75=6
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 3 + (3 - 0.25) + (3 - 0.25) + 3 = 13.5
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 1443
 * UTC (11:54) = 1*1*5*4 = 20
 * 1443/20 * pi = 226.66591
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 60,000/30,000= 2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: -6

Dutch Newfoundland
Total: 66.25*1.1=72.875
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+4+6
 * Strength: 4-0.75+4+3+5+3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale -2
 * Chance: 2
 * Edits: 4375
 * UTC (11:54) = 20
 * 4375/20 * pi = 687.223392973
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 9
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 30,000/60,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:
 * Recent Defeats: -2 (Central America)

Result
(72.875/(72.875+58.5))*2-1=0.1094196

Discussion
This is it for now, I removed the concurrent wars since the mod event clearly states that they had been defeated quickly in 1835 and no further mod events mentioned anything else about that region.

Anyways since this is a defensive war, Netherlands can't take more than 4% although I'm guessing that's enough for the OTL port of St, Johns. SkyGreen24 14:11, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Question?
Now can i topple Galicia's goverment?

Wrto12 (talk) 12:40, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. SkyGreen24 12:45, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total: 85.9
 * Location: +8 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Nations Per Side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: Larger = +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 (Attacking to enforce political hegemony)
 * Modifiers: -2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 7,057
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 2 * 0 * 4 = 8
 * 7/7057 * pi = 0.00311454
 * Nation Age: -5 (5-25 years since government change)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 250,000/70,000 = 2.9
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 61.4
 * Location: +25 (At the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (No defenses, open field, etc.)
 * Nations per side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy Development: Smaller = -2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Modifiers: +4 (Non-democratic Government supported by people)
 * Chance: 3
 * Edits: 0
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D = 8
 * 0/8 * pi = 0
 * Nation Age: +0 (Old, 200-300 years old)
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Troops strength: 70,000/200,000 = 0.4
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Result
China seizes 16% of the nation of Manchu in the southern portions.

Castile
RexImperio told me that my country(Castile) owns Navarre(that my country attacked and conquered them...)If thats true(There is an error on the map) then tell me cuase i was planning to invade them and pls correct it.

Please don't forget to sign your posts.

Rimp is mistaken. Castile does not own Navarre at the present time.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:48, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, iirc I invaded and took over Navvare for the short period of time I was playing as them. Saturn120 20:48, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Castile

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2+6
 * Strength: +4
 * Motive: +3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (19:55) = 1*9*5*5 = 16?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 1.744
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 100,000/25,000=4
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0
 * Recent Wars:-2

Total:65

===Navarra ===
 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: +9
 * Morale: -2-2-5
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (19:55) = 2*0*4*2 = 16?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 7,875
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Total:59

Result
4% max

2% in a year

Discussion
Pls correct my culculations as this is my second algorithm

Why are so many nations involved? You should list who is involved in the war. Troop Numbers are way too high for your side. #PraiseRoosevelt. 14:34, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Well Russia is helping me but i have no idea how to put them i am new to algorithms...

Thats not right as i told Russia is supporting me...with their help i am able to take more than 2%...

Mexaco
So i was looking to get back into the game and Saw Mexaco was open so im hoping to take that. Ive already posted and would like to get a lowdown on whats happening there so i can write better posts. Also if its not okay then ill bail on it but it just seemed like a good nation to get back into the game with.

Pretty good actually, they conquered almost all of Central America recently with a few final states left. Saturn120 16:25, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Damn Sat, stahp lying. Hasn't Mexico thing been idle ever since the Treaty of Toledo? I think Britannia and Scandivania controlled it for a certain period of time but doesn't seen like it ever expanded as you suggest. ♣There is no good or evil: only power and those too weak to seek it♣ Mexico Expanded via mod events because players where too lazy/busy to notice the build up, except Hamburg who actually put up a defence. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:54, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mexaca

 * Location: +8
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Strength: 4+3=7
 * Motive: +7
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits: 126
 * UTC (00:00) = 1*1*1*1 = 1?
 * 126/16 * pi(?) = 1.744
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 50,000/25,000=2
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0
 * Recent Wars:-6

Total:38*1.5=57

===Hamburger Empire ===
 * Location: 15-4/2=5.5
 * Tactical Advantage: +5+8
 * Strength: 4-0.25+4+3=10.75
 * Motive: +5+5=5
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 2980
 * UTC (19:55) = 2*0*4*2 = 1
 * 2980/1 * pi(?) = 9361.9461077
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0
 * Theaters of War:0
 * Concurrent Wars:0

Total:63.25

Result
(63.25/(57+63.25))*2-1=0.05197505196

Discussion
Not sure how this would change the algo, but Borealia is also sending troops to the Mexacan side. "This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:49, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Was told to do as if Mexico was still NPC. Mexico w/ Borealian aid vs Hamburg and Belize. Feud's newest post says a few million in the nation, so I interpreted that as "less than 10 million). #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:12, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Done. SkyGreen24 18:21, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't this mean that Mexeca lost? Nathan1123 (talk) 19:23, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

It means Mexaca barely wins.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:31, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mexico actually still loses. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:25, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Switch
Could i switch to Japan?Japan's player is inactive for a very long time.I currently play as Castile Wrto12 (talk) 01:15, April 16, 2015 (UTC)Wrto12

Attackers

 * Location:+8(*.75)+8(*.75)+8(1)+8=6+6+8+8=28/4=7


 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker and Suprise:2+6=8


 * Strength: Andea (3) Apeac (2.25-.25) Voyloyclayr(4) Aymara(3-.25) Brazil (3) Osean Loyalists (4-.25)=18.5+5+3+3+3


 * Motive:7+(Andea)+3( Vorlayacor)+3(Aymara)=16/3=5.3


 * Morale: Andea (+3) Aymara (+3) Vorlayacor (3) Osean Loyalists (-2)=+3+5
 * Chance:9
 * Editcount:1932
 * UTC:02:19=18, 1932/18=337.1976114853044741569
 * Population:+8+10=18


 * Nation Age:+0


 * Recent Wars:02


 * Numbers:65,000/20000=3.25


 * Particpation:+10

Total:99.05

Defender

 * Location:15*1=15


 * Strength:+4


 * Tactical Advantage:+5


 * Motive:+5


 * Morale: (Giving them the benefit of the doubt):+3


 * Chance:+7


 * Population:+7


 * Nation Age:0


 * Recent Wars:0


 * Numbers:0


 * Participation:+10

Total:56

Result
27% max

13% in a year, 20% in 2, 23% in 3.

Attacker
Total: 75.3
 * Location: +8 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Nations Per Side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: Larger = +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +7 (Attacking to enforce political hegemony)
 * Modifiers: -2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 7,087
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 3 = 81
 * 81/7087 * pi = 0.0142938
 * Nation Age: -5 (5-25 years since government change)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/70,000 = 4.3
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 61.23
 * Location: +25 (At the Location of the War)
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1 (No defenses, open field, etc.)
 * Nations per side: Leader = +5
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy Development: Smaller = -2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Modifiers: +4 (Non-democratic Government supported by people)
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 0
 * UTC (ABCD) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 3 = 81
 * 0/8 * pi = 0
 * Nation Age: +0 (Old, 200-300 years old)
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Troops strength: 70,000/300,000 = .23
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Result
China seizes 16% of the nation of Manchu in the southern portions.

Croatia
Total: 78*1.1=85.8
 * Location: -4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 3517
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 3517/4 * pi = 2762.245341
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 80,000/20,000=4
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Sukadang
Total: 51
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6+4+8
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale -10-5
 * Chance: 5
 * Edits: 3517
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 3517/4 * pi = 2762.245341
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(85.8/(85.8+51))*2-1=0.254385964=0.381578947

Toppled in 4 years.

Assyria (Aggressor)

 * Location: Next to the location of the war (+8) = +8
 * Tactical advantage: Attacker (+2), surprise (+6) = +8
 * Strength: Better military (+3) = +3+4+ 2(Rome)
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: Non-democratic (-2) = -2
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit count = 10,414
 * UTC time = 2122
 * Chance = (10,414*pi)/(2*2*2) = 4089.56823681
 * Population: 3,999,999 (+7) = +7
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Troop number: 38,000 = 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Total: 46

Persia (Defender)

 * Location: 15
 * Tactical advantage: Defender (+5) = +5
 * Strength: Much larger economy (+5) = +5+4+4 (Calihpate) +2.25 (Bengal)
 * Motive: Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years (+5) = +5
 * Morale: Non-democratic government (-2) = -2
 * Chance: +8
 * Population: 8,000,000 (+7), greater population (+2) = +9
 * Nation age: Young nation (-5) = -5
 * Recent wars: +0
 * Troop number: 76,000/38,000 = +2
 * Participation: +10
 * Total: 62.25

Discussion
Done. SkyGreen24 18:03, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Given that Persia is superior than Assyria in population and resources, I highly doubt that Persia would be able to raise a small force of 8000 whilst Assyria has an army of 38,000.
 * 2) The Caliphate has declared war upon Assyria, and that needs to be added to the algorithm in the form of a second front most likely.
 * 3) Given that you wish to unite the Kurds, your motive would be "Taking territory of similar culture", not "Hegemony

Roman Empire
Total: 78
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4+5+3+5
 * Motive: 6
 * Morale: +3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edits: 8414
 * UTC (10:41) = 1*1*4*1=4
 * 8414/4 * pi = 2106.641593
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 80,000/20,000=4
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Antillian Rebels
Total: 56
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6+4+8
 * Strength: 4
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale: +3-5
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength: 0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(78/(78+56))*2-1=0.164179104

Can't seem to get the second part of the equation to work, but yeah.

Discussion
So I did this based on what I have picked up. If anyone wants to through in any hints, go for it.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:04, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Japanese Empire
Total: 78
 * Location: +8*0.75=6
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage) +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Strength: 3+3 (Larger economy)+3 (Better military)+3 (Fully mobilized)+5(Naval dominance)
 * Motive: 7
 * Morale: +5 (Troop Morale high)-2 (Non-democratic Government)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 142
 * UTC (6:26) = 6*2*6 =
 * 142/72 * pi = 6.195918845
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 30,000,000 = +8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/100,000=3
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Manchuria
Total: 57
 * Location: +15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+6
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: +9 (Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack)
 * Morale: -2-5 (Troop Morale low)
 * Chance: 5
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 15,000,000? =8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars:-4 (2 recent wars with China)
 * Troops strength: 100,000/300,000=0
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(78/(78+57))*2-1=0.1470588235294118

I have no idea about my Industrial Stage so pls correct that and tell me what's my Industrial Stage so i could do it better next time,also i have no idea how to count my 3 vassals and chance

Discussion
Done. SkyGreen24 21:17, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker
Total: 79
 * Location: +6 (Next to the Location of the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 (Attackers Advantage), +6 (Surprise Attack) = +8
 * Strength: 3+3+5=11
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale 5-2
 * Chance: 9
 * Edits: 7,119
 * UTC (23:30) = 2*3*3*1=18
 * 7119/18 * pi = 1242.49989
 * Nation Age: 0 (25-75 years, Maturing Nation)
 * Population: 280,000,000= +29
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Number of Troops: 600,000/300,000 = 2
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Concurrent Wars: 0

Defender
Total: 46
 * Location: +15 (At the Location of the War)
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: 3+3=6
 * Motive: +10 (Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture)
 * Morale: -10-2-2-2
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: 20,000,000 = +8
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -6
 * Troops strength: 300,000/600,000 = 0
 * Theaters of War: 0

Result
(79/(76+46))*2-1=0.264

He needs 33.33% to topple. So. 2 years'll do it.

Discussion
Given that China previously took 16% of China, they would be able to topple Manchu this turn by taking 26-28% more which adds upto around 44%.

However, Japan also took 14% of Manchu which somewhat means that Japan would have 14% of Manchu whilst China would have 86%. Or, China and Japan can just decide this with themselves.

Done. Seems like Dae's topplin.

Borealia
Total: 99*1.4=138.6
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 2+6=8
 * Strength: 4+5+3+3+5=20
 * Motive: 3
 * Morale:+3
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 238
 * UTC (14:21) = 1*4*2*1 = 6
 * (238/6) * pi = 124.6165
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8+20=28
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/10,000=20
 * Theaters of War:
 * Recent wars: -2-1
 * Concurrent Wars:

Kiatagmiut
Total: 64
 * Location: 15
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+10=15
 * Strength: 0
 * Motive: 9
 * Morale: +3-5
 * Chance: 6
 * Edits:
 * UTC (ABCD) = A * B * C * D =
 * / * pi =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength:
 * Theaters of War:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(138.6/(138.6+64))*2 -1 = 0.36821322802

toppled in six years

Discussion
Fixed. SkyGreen24 18:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

I know it's semantics, but as a learning experience:

1. why do they get +3 morale? Is the Kiatagmiut democratic?

2. why don't I get a 1.5 multiplier? why 1.4?

thanks Nathan1123 (talk) 20:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

France
It seems that Sine hasn't posted in forever, and while I apreciate that others continue to cp his posts for turn after turn, it no longer makes any sense whatsoever. Besides the fact that every word in the copied post is now contradicted by world events, it just looks plain ridiculous that France should be so frozen during this time. At least have the decency to throw in some sort of revolt or civil decent to merely expain what's going on. It's the nineteenth century, for crying out loud. You have umpteenth number of OTL revolutions to use as explanation for why France is impenent (not to mention the precedent of Britannia when Trollis was absent).

Rant over Nathan1123 (talk) 04:46, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Considering multiple people have not only been kicked for inactivity, but also for being away and having turns copy-pasted for a long time, it's probably due that Sine is kicked too. Tr0llis (talk) 22:56, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think now through the end of May should be a grace period. Finals tend to kill our player base. Sine is inactive due to IRL issues I think. Crim de la Crème 23:00, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

His last post was on March 4, 1796 Nathan1123 (talk) 23:21, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

If he has been absent for over a century, then he needs to be removed. Ofcourse, whether this happens or not depends on the Mods who don't seem keen on kicking off a 'fellow mod and friend'.

Crim tell that to the people who kicked me out on the fifteenth turn exactly, and to the Moscow player who they kicked on the twelfth turn, which technically isn't even inactive enough. The grace period shouldn't apply only to Sine, not when a half dozen others have been kicked out for much less (in some cases they didn't even miss fifteen turns, they had people copy-pasting for them the whole time, but were simply inactive themselves for a long time). Tr0llis (talk) 14:16, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, not even going to adress what Trollis is bringing up cause those are seperate issue all together. Sine is "inactive" do to the death of his computer. However, Sine is still in contact with Mp via Facebook Moblie. Idk How many of you have tried, but using wikia on a moblie phone is shit. Because Sine can respond to events and diplomacy in the game, he is techniqully not inactive. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:30, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

This is pretty hypocritical. The user Razor lost access to a computer too, but continued to have people post for him and copy and paste what he sent them. Yet the mods, particularly his neighbor Fed, declared that he was still inactive. They said that Razor may be posting still, but he himself had been inactive for too long, and that he shouldn't play an online game if he has trouble getting online. Razor was kicked from his nation because of that. But I'm sure Sine's case is different. Tr0llis (talk) 18:58, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

I don't really care what happens to France, but just so you know Edge, I was kicked out of my nation while technically active too. If past nations are any indicator, it doesn't matter much if you technically still post. Then again I'm not really sure what happened to my nation, and at this point I don't want to continue playing anyway. - Fritzmet (talk)

Sine is inactive because he hasn't responded any events or diplomacy since 1796. That's why France no longer makes any sense. Nathan1123 (talk) 20:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

France has declared war on the Rhineland every year for the past several decades now. Tr0llis (talk) 20:31, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't really make much sense Edge. He isn't posting, people are doing it for him which means he is inactive. Whether he is in contact with MP or not does not matter because he is inactive... One more thing, I also use a mobile phone for the wiki most of the time [Same goes for Sat, he uses an iPad I think which kind of displays the wiki the same as how it is on phone] and I don't see any problem with it. ♣There is no good or evil: only power and those too weak to seek it♣  05:58, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Bengal Sultanate
Result: 95.75
 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3.75 [Jaunpur] +5 [Much Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 23.75
 * Motive: +6 [Taking Back Territory Recently Held]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 67.351
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops: 225,000/44,000 = +5
 * Participation: +10

Deccan Sultanate
Result: 45
 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Deccan]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 67.351
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/225,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10

Results
(95.75/(95.75+45))*2 -1 = 0.360568

Toppled in 6 years.

Discussion
Sky, for whatever reason, doesn't like it when you bold things or use the brackets instead of the parenthesis. Thought you should know.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:20, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

However, Sky can live with the bolding stuff. However, what I can't live with is you vassalizing Jaunpur even though there's been numerous cases which had already set the precedent that vassalizing is not easily achievable. SkyGreen24 07:08, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

You see, Jaunpur can easily be vassalized. There is a reason why in otl, the Persians and Afghans could easily move to and fro from Delhi to Kabul. Or how the Marathas easily occupied Delhi without much of a fight... Or why the British soldiers were able to just enter Delhi and place the Mughal Emperor under 'British protection'. Thing is, Jaunpur lacks the capability to maintain its sovereignty and integrity, which has been proven in PM3 as well given the Timurid, Mughal and Urdustani 'vassalization' of Jaunpur. The state of Jaunpur cannot expect to exist for long by itself without controlling either Punjab or Bengal, which is why one rarely ever sees Empires similar to Jaunpur. Even being hostile with either Punjab or Bengal can prove to be deadly for Jaunpur as the state itself lacks the resources and manpower to achieve stability, which makes Jaunpur forced to depend upon others and prone to vassalization. In between Punjab and Bengal, Jaunpur would most likely turn to Bengal, not the Sikh regime in Muslim Punjab. Now, to the main point. A dynastic union already existed between Bengal and Jaunpur since the times of Eip, and it was 'renewed' recently as well. Moreover, Jaunpur depends upon Bengal for import of products and an outlet to the sea. Finally, the British never conquered 'Northern India' either, they vassalized it in the 19th Century using Bengal as a base. Something that is exactly what I am doing. If anything, the Lodis in Jaunpur are probably even weaker than the otl Mughals because while Carnatac and Mysore occasionally swore loyalty to the Mughals and the Afghans often aided them, no one in PM3 has submitted to the authority of Jaunpur.

Borealia
Total: 70*1.5=105
 * Location: 8
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 4+3+3+5=15
 * Motive: 3+5+7=15
 * Morale: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edits: 253
 * UTC (19:39) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 9 = 243
 * 235/243 * pi = 3.2708...
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Number of Troops:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Defender
Total: 32
 * Location: -4
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+4+6=15
 * Strength: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Morale: -2
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 148
 * UTC (19:39) = 1 * 9 * 3 * 9 = 243
 * 148/243 * pi = 1.9133
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Troops strength:
 * Concurrent Wars:

Result
(105/(105*32))*2-1 = 0.5328...

Topple in 2 years

Hashemite Caliphate

 * Location: +8 [Next to Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +2 [Invaders Advantage] +6 [Surprise Attack] = +8
 * Strength: +4 [Bengal] +3.75 [Jaunpur] +5 [Much Larger Economy] +3 [Better Military] +3 [Fully Mobilized] +5 [Naval Dominance] = 23.75
 * Motive: +6 [Taking Back Territory Recently Held]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] +5 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +5
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 67.351
 * Population: +8 [Population] +20 [Greater Than 10 Times Larger Population] = +28
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Number of Troops: 225,000/44,000 = +5
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 95.75

Deccan Sultanate

 * Location: +15 [At The Location of War]
 * Tactical Advantage: +5 [Defenders Advantage]
 * Strength: +4 [Deccan]
 * Motive: +9 [Fatal Attack]
 * Morale: -2 [Non-Democratic] -5 [Low Morale] = -7
 * Chance: +1
 * Edits: 1347
 * UTC (04:05): 0*4*0*5 = 20
 * (1347/20)*pi: 67.351
 * Population: +8 [Population]
 * Nation Age: +0 [Maturing Nation]
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Number of Troops: 44,000/225,000 = +0
 * Participation: +10
 * Result: 45

Results

 * (95.75/(95.75+45))*2 -1 = 0.360568