Talk:Axis vs Allies R-word (Map Game)

Enough Players
i think the number of players is adequate to begin. Nkbeeching (talk) 21:11, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

I concur. Let the games begin!

21:59, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Maps
I got a map proposal right here!



I fixed some things: That's great, except that Mongolia was colored because it was a vassal of the Soviets. If you are going to color Liberia, then you have to color Mongolia. You should also color the Dutch East Indies.
 * Labeled Liberia as part of America (it was effectivley an American colony)
 * Removed Mongolia from the USSR as it was never part of the USSR
 * Colored Italian colonies
 * Colored Portguese Colonies
 * Colored more British Colonies
 * Updated Yugoslavia/Albania and USSR/Finland
 * Morgan Freeman (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 03:06, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Seems legit, but Mongolia in Soviet color, East Indies in Dutch color, and you missed Sweden.

03:09, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'll add those for the next year Morgan Freeman (talk) 03:32, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Just do it on this one; you've got a good part of a day left to do it.

03:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Not where I live Morgan Freeman (talk) 03:34, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Christ man, it take one minute. If you cba, I'll do it.

03:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)



I fixed some things:
 * Colored Mongolia a Soviet-ish shade of red
 * Colored Dutch East Indies
 * Colored Sweden
 * Gave Southern Albania to Greece (assuming they accept the deal)
 * Morgan Freeman (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals
Vassals should be allowed, they are in real life, especially WWII. OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

It says you can't create stupid vassals, not that you can't create vassals. Course with you it'll be a moot point but...

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:30, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed.

Scraw

Algo
We might need one.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:31, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Working on it.

Scraw

Location
Location goes by the location of the nearest large concentration of troops. You can only have one.
 * Defending nation: at heartland: +5
 * On the border +4
 * A city close to the border +3
 * Far from the border +2
 * Opposite side of nation +0
 * No former presence +0 (you have to have troops in the location before the attack)

Power
Aerial assault is tangent with location. For the attacker, your aerial power must be close enough to the location of attack, with your land nearby for the planes to return to.

Naval assault is only applicable when attacking a coast.

Land assault is also tangent with location. No requirements for land assault other than being somewhat near to the border. Land, aerial, and naval is compounded. If you have large naval, medium air, and medium land, your score is 9 or 7. You cannot have medium aerial and large aerial at the same time.
 * Large aerial assault capability +3
 * Large naval assault capability +3
 * Large land assault capability +3
 * Medium aerial assault capability +3 (if enemy has no aerial power) +2 (if the enemy has aerial power)
 * Medium naval assault capability +3 (if the enemy has no naval power) +2 (if the enemy has their navy stationed in or around the location)
 * Medium land capability +3 (if three or more times larger than enemy) +2 (if less than three times larger than enemy)
 * Small aerial/naval/land capability: +1

Industrial Strength
Industry is added up for all participants in a war.
 * UK, US, Germany, USSR: +5
 * Japan: +4
 * France, Italy: +3
 * China, colonies of the UK and France, rest of Europe, Ethiopia, South America: +2
 * Everyone else: +1

Scores will be changed over time.

Development

 * Military: + 2 for every turn in the last 10 years
 * Economic: + 2 for every turn in the past 10 years
 * Infrastructure: + 3 for every turn in the past 10 years (defender only)
 * Culture: + 1 for every turn in the past 10 years (stacks with economic bonus)

Nuclear Weapons

 * +7 if major city is destroyed
 * +7 for first nuclear attack
 * +6 if minor city is destroyed
 * +5 for retaliatory attack
 * -2 for any nuke used by anyone other than the Big Seven (UK, US, Ge, Ru, Ja, Fr, It)
 * +10 for the first nuclear attack ever (can only be used for the first use of a nuclear weapon)

Chance

 * The last digit of each editor's edit count. In case of PC-NPC war, NPC automatically gets 5.

Motive

 * Economic (Gains land, resorce, etc): +2
 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: +3
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 4
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 4
 * Aiding an Ally: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike: +5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 6
 * Attacking to enforce politcal hegemony: +7
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 8
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 8
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10
 * Modifiers:
 * Non-democratic Government supported by people: + 3
 * Democratic government supported by people: + 4
 * Government not supported by people: -5
 * Troop Morale high (requires motive over 5, chance over 6, and stronger development scores in at least one category): + 5
 * Troop Morale low (any of the above: chance below 1, lower development scores in all categories, recent war penalty over 8): -5
 * Fighting Guerilla War: -5 attacker, + 1 defender
 * Implausibility: -2 per impluasibility
 * Warning: Negative motive scores are possible!!

​Population

 * Greater than 100 million +5
 * Greater than 50 million +3
 * Greater than 30 million +2
 * Less than 30 million +1
 * Larger than opponents: + 2
 * 2x size of opponent's: + 5
 * 5x size of opponent's: + 10
 * Every further order of magnitude: + 10

Allies

 * Leader Nations: +10 each participating
 * Military aid: + 5 each participating
 * Supplies: + 3 each participating
 * Cultural Support: +2 each participating
 * Vassal: -2 each participating
 * Withdrawal: - 2 each nation which was participating and then left
 * ex: China (L) Vietnam (M) France (S) Britain (C) Japan (MV) Korea (SV) = 10 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 24

Recent Wars

 * Each war in the past 15 years where nation was a...
 * Leader: -4
 * Military aider: -2
 * Supplier: -1

Results
The equation for gains from war algorithms is (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where x is the number of the years the war goes on and p is the amount of territory determined by the algorithm ((y/(z+y))*2)-1 where y is the winner's score and z is the losers). So if your war lasts one year, you only get 50% of the territory, but if you let the war last five years, you get 90% of the territory. The minimum amount of territory you can win from an algorithm is 1%, otherwise it is a percentage of the loser's territories to two decimal places e.g. 13.69% not 13.69242%.

A great calculator for this is http://web2.0calc.com/ you just copy and paste the equations into the box and replace the letters with the numbers for that specific war. And then you just copy the answer to the main page. Or folks, just use Google. Their automatic calculator is a great aid in working out all this.

Discussion
um i think we also need a naval algo, guerilla penalty in occupied territory, and also troop morale. Nkbeeching (talk) 09:34, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Naval Algo? Why? It's one algo per war lol.

As for the other two, algo's not done yet,

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  20:06, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

NOW it's done. Complaints any?

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  20:18, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Could I get the algorithm for the Yugoslvavian invasion of Albania? Morgan Freeman (talk) 00:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

USSR

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +9
 * Industry: +5
 * Development: + 2 (military) +2 (infrastructure/industry)
 * Nukes: +0
 * Chance: +8
 * Motive: + 16 (trying to get back lost land, economic, non-democratic support, high troop morale)
 * Population: +15 (over 100 mil, greater than 5x opponent)
 * Allies: USSR (L): +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particpation: + 10
 * Result: 73

Finland

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: + 1
 * Industry: +1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +7 (+3 less than 20 years, democratic government +4)
 * Population: +1 (under 30 mil)
 * Allies: Finland (L): 10
 * Recent Wars : 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 40

Results
((73/113)*2) - 1 = .292

.292 * (1-(1/4)) = .219% = 21%

USSR crushes Finland and Stalin decides to not purge his generals.

Discussion
Alternate:

SCRAW. You Screwed up that Algo TOTALLY.

I did it right. Then Britain went about sticking its nose where it didn't belong. As usual.

00:30, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yugoslavia

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 2 (Economic)
 * Population: + 11 (Under 30 mil, 5x larger)
 * Allies: Yugoslavia (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 47

Albania

 * Location: 5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 8 (defending heartland from potentially fatal attack)
 * Population: +1 (under 30 mil)
 * Allies: Albania (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participiation: 10
 * Result: 44

Results
45/66 = .6818181... x 2 = 1.3636363636... -1 = .3636...

.363636 x .75 = .272727272... = 27%

Yugoslavia crushes Albania

((47/(47+44))*2)-1 = 3.2%

If war lasts for 2 years (you can change that, Dax), then (3.2)*(1-1/(4))= 2.4 % of Albania. A strategic victory. Try again.

Discussion
'''Beautiful example how not to do it. Well, not actually, but you did most of it wrong. Thanks for laying down the basics, though.'''

 23:41, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil

 * Location: +4
 * Power: + 6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +32 (8 years mil, 8 years econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 7
 * Motive: + 14 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic govt, High Morale)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Brasil (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particaption: 10
 * Result: 82

Argentina

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: - 7 (Defending from potentially fatal strike, Low troop morale, 5 implausibity Citations)
 * Population: +1 (Under 30 mil)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participlation: 10
 * Result: 20

Results
(63 /(63+23)*2)-1) = 0.465116 --- Only if the algo is correct Brazil would topple argentina's government.

((82/(82+20)*2)-1) = 0.60784313725

(60.7)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 45.525%

Discussion
'''Wrong, Feud. *Sigh*. But you erred in his favour lol.'''

HOWEVER, IT WILL TAKE TWO YEARS.

 22:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: +6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: + 24 (6 turns econ, 6 turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +14 (High Troop Morale, Supported govt, Defending from non-fatal attack)
 * Population: +1 (Lower than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Ethiopia (L), France (L), Britain (L), Canada (MV), Australia (MV), India (MV) USSR (S): 44
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 114

Italy

 * Location: +3
 * Power: +6
 * Industry: +3
 * Development: 12 (3 turns econ, 3 turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: -2 (Economic, Popular Support, Low Troop Morale, 1 Imp Citations)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 2x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Italy (L), Germany (C): 12
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 51

Result
((114/(114+36)*2)-1) = .52

(.52)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 26%

War can last for one turn; Italy will lose all territory in Africa. SO SAYETH GUNS.

23:33, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

SCRAW OBJECTETH. Italian Somalia to the Ethiopians, Tunisia to the frogs, and Cyrenacia to the limeys. The Ivans need nothing.

23:37, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

WE KNOW. FFS.

I uploaded a map of basically that persuasion, lol. Ethiopia gets Eritrea and Somliland. The Brits and French split Libya.

23:38, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

No Libya for the frogs. Leave part for the guinea dagos. (Guinea dago? Guinea dago! Figaro!)

23:41, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I need to take 26% of their territory Scraw. libya be going to French and Limeys.

23:44, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Taking all of Libya exceeds the 26% winnings.

23:45, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well not taking any of it doesn't fulfill said winnings.

So give half to the Brits and leave the Dagos the rest lol.

23:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I see three problems with this algorithm. This would give me a score of 54, While your scor would remain as it was originally. the equation should go as follows:
 * First, Italy's location should be five; I already had a large concentration of troops within the Ogaden at the time of your attack
 * Second, my motive score should be zero, not negative. I have non-democratic government supported by the people(+3), and I am attacking for economic reasons(+2) for a total of five, which is negated by low morale.
 * Third, my participation score is listed as 0.I've definitley participated in the war, so it should be ten like it is in any other algorithm

((114/(114+54)*2)-1) = .35

(.35)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 17.5%

Taking into account that you would already have to elimate the italian prescence in the Ogaden, by the end of the year, you would probably manage to make significant penetrations into Somaliland and Eritrea. To take Libya you would have to get Britain and France involved, which could not be done except by having another large European war, something not likely to happen over a nation such as Ethiopia. Wegscuba (talk) 02:39, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Ethiopia was the largest non-European nation in Africa and had well over half a million angry men that the Emperor could rile up into a fight as he did in the Italo-Ethiopian War. Having Ethiopia as an ally was something Europe was interested in OTL during the 1920s and 1930s. Also, during the end of WWII, the British and French devoted tens of thousands of troops to fight the Italians in Ethiopia as part of the East African Campaign. Ethiopia was much more important than you would have us believe Wegscuba. Also, Italy was weak compared to all the other European powers, definently weaker than the top two dogs Britain and France. Both were superpowers, and the other had a massive colonial empire than made Italy's look insignificant (especially when you look at Africa). No offense though. And remember, your not just fighting Britain and France, your fighting Canada, South Africa, Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Chad, India, and Australia as well, all of whom fought in every major conflict their mother country was involved in, and more importantly, surround Italian Africa as well. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 13:26, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Your territorial divisions make little sense. I will return to offer my suggestions that make more sense to me.

Happy Thanksgiving.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 15:05, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

AHEM.

Weg; only defending nations can recieve a score of 5.

In addition, you have one impluasibility citation. So -2, not -7.

That's an accident (about the particpation score.)

So your actual score is 51.

((114/(114+51)*2)-1) = .38

(.38)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 19%

Which happily solves the problem of Libya. You lose all colonies in Africa save for your largest.

Actual, I expected MP to enter the war on your side, thus sparking WWII.

Hehe.

18:47, November 28, 2013 (UTC)