Alternative History talk:TSPTF

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CrimsonAssassin’s Recent Bans (The Crim Reaping)
I noticed something very odd when I went on the wiki the other day, and talking on chat with people seems to have confirmed what I suspected. On June 23 CrimsonAssassin, completely out of the blue, decided to permanently ban four users; Tr0llis, Fritzmet, Harvenard2, and Mscoree.As you can see on this page there is no explanation from Crim as to why this is. I believe these bans are completely unwarranted, given that not only were none of these users breaking any of the wiki’s rules or causing harm whatsoever, one of them, Mscoree, hasn’t even been on the wiki in weeks, thus meaning he couldn’t possibly have committed any sort of crime, especially not one worthy of a permanent ban.

From what I’ve gathered on chat and through people’s talk pages, a dispute began between Crim and Tr0llis the other day when Tr0llis signed up to play Principia Moderni IV. On that page it notes that no one is forbidden from playing unless otherwise stated, and furthermore Tr0llis apparently got the approval of three moderators; Josh, Rex, and Nathan, whether tentative or not, that he would be allowed to play in the game. I say tentatively because their approval was in part dependant of the approval of Scraw, the head moderator, but I notice that Scraw never objected to Tr0llis either. Despite all this, however, Crim, in his capacity as a regular player of the game (not a moderator), decided to remove Tr0llis (and others) from the game. When this was detected and the moderators gave Tr0llis the permission to add himself back, Crim still did not accept it.

Perhaps it was that Crim felt he could not “win” the map game if people he disliked were in any position of power, or perhaps he just did not like them playing the same game, but the fact of the matter is he had no right to remove a fellow player from the game, especially after the moderators allowed Tr0llis into the game. What Crim did more or less constitutes vandalism, but that is more of a map game matter, and not the subject of this appeal.

Continuing the background information, we know that Crim seems to have a bit of a personal bias against Tr0llis (and others). From his infamous, previous permanent ban of Tr0llis, which was overturned when it was revealed that Tr0llis was falsely banned, to his numerous other bans usually stemming from discussions on chat. However, this time there was no perceived argument on chat. At least previously Crim could claim that Tr0llis or whoever was “misbehaving” on chat when he banned him for a day or two, but in these circumstances we can see that none of the victims were on chat at or around the time of the ban. In fact, Mscoree hadn’t gone on chat in perhaps weeks. So was it something they had edited? No, we see that none of them had made any recent edits, the closest one being Tr0llis’ edit of his sandbox.

So let’s look at the reason Crim stated for the bans:

“Mscoree remains on the wiki to harm the community and to cause trouble. He has worn out his welcome several times over and it's time we all stop being afraid when he'll return.”

This doesn’t line up though, because Mscoree ‘’does not’’ remain on the wiki, in general, nor does he remain or attempt to harm the community in any way. You’d be hard pressed to find an example of him damaging the community in the last several months, especially considering he hasn’t posted much in the past few months. And arguably you could say Crim is the one harming the community here, by banning several users for no apparent reason.

He says we should stop being afraid of when Mscoree returns, but as far as I can tell no one is afraid of Mscoree, and if they are they definitely shouldn’t be. The last time I saw Mscoree in chat people seemed glad to see him. He hasn’t caused anything even close to a problem in months, maybe more. Ironically, people seem to be afraid of when ‘’Crim’’ returns, given that when he does come on the wiki he leaves a trail of bans in his wake. This pattern of ban after ban from Crim, although originally attributed to the apparently poor character of the accused, seems more likely to indicate the true nature of the accuser, Crim. And just to further illustrate the point, I believe he intends to permanently ban me as well, as people were warning me to stay off chat and not make this message. But I believe I should make this message, because even though I will probably be banned I think the TSPTF needs to be alerted to this malpractice, or rather, injustice, that is taking place. Ratcolor (talk) 16:02, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Took a day for you to write a rant? Thought this would have been up within the hour of their ban. Shame.

I'm not going to respond to this in length, mostly because it's a gigantic waste of time and I know it'll go over your head, but also because I sent an IP check request on you and Ms or any of the other geniuses. Even if it turns out that you aren't a sockpuppet of those four, you'll run out of steam.

To everyone else, this is my massive display of power. Anyone who stands in my way will be crushed under my boot. I claim this wiki and I will rename it to Crim Wiki. You will kneel.

In all seriousness, it's pretty obvious that banning those four had to happen. We've been hoping these guys don't return for six months and when they do return, nobody's happy. They think it's funny to make things harder for people here. I know people like that and the only way it's going to stop for good is if we do this. As we can see in Mitro's blog post 'What the hell happened to the Althistory Wiki,' we need to get rid of these users if we're going to get any better. That's it. Purge is over. Go back to worrying about the fallout from Brexit. This is the last time we're going to have our time wasted from any of these four.

Love and Rainbows and Sparkles,

Crim - 10/10 - IGN 17:51, June 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * While I can't speak for Fritzmet and Harvenard2, I'm 100% on board with Crim's blocking of Mscoree and Tr0llis (rather surprised to see MS hadn't been blocked already). These two [alone] have proven their disobedience on more than one occasion (especially towards admins). -- 18:18, June 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * I do fully support Crim's vigilant and justified actions against these users. I have been victim to their harassment (namely from Fritzmet and sometimes Tr0llis) and a witness to their ways of manipulation to avoid punishment. They have been given plenty of chances to redeem themselves, and have failed every chance they had. I understand that Ratcolor is close with them and will follow their path of lies and manipulation, but let us remember that if we allow this repulsive behavior to continue and/or return, then we are failing ourselves. ( 23:06, June 24, 2016 (UTC))


 * Screencap_e-mail.png only does this make Ratcolor the fifth and final crony to be banned, this also means their wall of shame entry will be one instead of four. ez-pz. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 00:25, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * God thank you, feels alot better to have these 5 gone, they bring out the worst in all our users and have gone digging around in everybodies personal lives they can get in including me and crim. For christ sake they tried to investigate in a dickish way if someone had attempted a suicide... Feudalplague (talk) 09:27, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay at first I was opposed to the Crony-wide ban with no particular provocation other than their very presence, but that IP check seems pretty conclusive. Good work Crimmy. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 18:38, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

09:49, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feud, strictly speaking only 1 is gone Prinsenvlag.svg Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here)

Chat Ban
Today I went on chat for the first time in a long time and UR immediately banned me. Nathan I think jokingly said I was a sockpuppet of Crim and tk ban me immediately and maybe the sarcasm was lost on UR becauae he actually did. Anyway can i be unbanned? I wasnt doing anything wrong in chat. KLinkinLogsAssassnGirljjj4444 (talk) 00:43, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Allow me to display why I banned you.


 * Granted these were taken in July of 2015 and you were not punished for it. Your account also features an array of...oddities; making your account seem like that of a troll. ( 00:47, June 25, 2016 (UTC))

All of those were from a year ago. What did i do just now to warrant a ban? I was already appropriately handled a year ago, are you really going to permanently ban me from chat for aomething like that? Those are taken way out of context too, pretty sure you or others were acting similarly at the time. Anyway im sorry about how i acted a year ago and if youd be so kind to give me another chance KLinkinLogsAssassnGirljjj4444 (talk) 00:51, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Nope. Unless a Lieutenant or Brass disagrees with me, I am unwilling to unban you due to your previous behavior and the contents of your userpage. Your userpage just screams "troll." ( 00:54, June 25, 2016 (UTC))

Imgur.com/a/C2t1d. And imgur.com/a/fBi2l are two albums i know of in which you act similarly inappropriate.


 * First one, yes I did act wrong, and I was violating the wiki's rules at the time (sockpuppeting). However, there is something verrrry suspicious about it. You were not present that (if I recall correctly) AND Fritz' speeches were highlighted. I think you just exposed yourself, Fritz.


 * Second one I don't know what I did wrong.

I didnt take one of the albums screenshots, but i had saved them all the same. Only the three images there i took. I posted both albums though because i think theyre rather telling.


 * I just find it odd that you show up right after several cronies were banned and post screenshots that were taken by a crony. ~UR


 * No response. Hmm, interesting. ~UR ( 04:38, June 25, 2016 (UTC))


 * I did the ban thing. Good catch, UR. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 17:39, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Petition on behalf of banned users
Hello everyone,

Lately, we have seen several users permabanned from the wiki, in the dead of night without any prior warning. Some of these haven't done anything on the wiki in months, and one of them hadn't done anything on the wiki at all since his last ban ended. I refer of course to the users Trollis, Mscoree, Fritzmet, Ratcolor, and Harvenard, also known to many members as "the cronies".

These users have been on the wiki for many years, so long in fact I myself have never interacted with Ms myself, as his last ban was a year before I joined. Over the years, they have collectively beeen indicted of many crimes on the wiki, including harrassment, sockpuppeting, blackmail, cheating in map games, and jaywalking (although the last one is still in contest). After the fall of Ms some year or so ago, they have all dissappeared from the wiki. Since the announcement of Principia Moderni IV, however, they began popping back out of the woodwork once again. Crimson Assassin, an old veteran and arch nemisis of the cronies, saw the writing on the wall, and acted swiftly to permaban them all.

However, this has come at some cost. Most of the people who remember the cronies are not active on the wiki anymore. Most of the active members, like me, are much younger and see this action only as a childish use of admin power. At worst, many can see this as the beginning of becoming Alternate History forums, where people can be banned for just being disliked personally, regardless of the content they produce. The retroactive justification for banning them is sockpuppeting, for which the evidence is dubious at best. I can't speak for myself, but how is it that these four people could be operated by the same person for so many years, and no one (not even their nemisis Crim) ever noticed any discrepancy, or even thought to check? Just think at all the map games, political simulators, chat arguments, and community TLs over the years in which some or all of the cronies participated at the same time. If they are the same person, then he has accomplished much more than any of us could in the same period of time.

I am not here to defend anyone. In fact, I would strongly encourage no one to use this as a platform for lampooning. No debates, no arguments, no evidence. All I want is to do is prove that we are civilized human beings, who don't constitue justice as throwing clubs and spears at people ostricized from the community. This is just a simple petition to see if anyone on the wiki (particularly in the TSPTF) disagree with any one of Crim's actions against the cronies.

Unban

 * Vote
 * Can't ban someone who hasn't edited in 6 months.

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * 18:07, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * 06:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.

Unban

 * Has a Featured TL.
 * Has a Featured TL.

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:39, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * 06:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Unban

 * Vote

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * 18:03, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:39, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.

Unban

 * Vote

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:41, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * SPQR Emblem Transparent.png Consul Ioshua   #Beware!  TSPTF_Badge.svg 23:48, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Stay Banned
That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * Vote
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:53, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Word of Scraw
Did you miss the IP check or something? Sockpuppeting is not allowed on this wiki, and unlike other cases people may have in mind, we actually have proof coming down from the top. I would also like to point out that blocks are not a matter of voting on this wiki.

21:00, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly what Scraw said. Bans are definitely not affected at all by voting or petitions. They are final. And yes for those of you who didn't notice, a couple of days ago Crim requested an IP check on them and all but MS were proved to be a match, and the only reason MS wasn't was because he hadn't edited in so long they couldn't check him. Sockpuppeting is a permaban offence. Simple as that. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 21:11, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, a few things since it seems this campaign seems to actually be supported by people, which is just ridiculous.

We knew Ms was sockpuppeting, it's just we didn't want to kick up a fuss, since about a year ago. I distinctly remember at least three times that an IP match was detected by wikia. The responsibility of wanting to avoid this huge argument that I knew would happen (because some of you guys are just rabid when it comes to Ms and company, let's be honest) lies on me, and I'd like to apologise, but there's absolutely no doubt that they were sockpuppets. Which is a rule that has been previously enforced. This is not something particularly against Mscoree and "company", it's something that is basic law in the althistory wikia. And it's ridiculous for you guys to argue against one of the most established rules in the wikia.

Anyways, even without the sockpuppeting arguments, you guys would have to be deluded to think Mscoree and company did not deserve a ban. They were a constant headache for the entire moderating team, trolling and flamebaiting basically at all moments, ignoring moderator arguments repeatedly, and breaking wikia (and timeline and map game) rules. Just this warrants a ban; and indeed, they had the longest ban logs in alternate history wikia... history, lol. There's absolutely no reason why we should not uphold the ban.

Scraw is completely right too. Bans are a decision of the TSPTF. There is no voting in regards to bans, and this one will stay in place. Fed (talk) 00:41, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Figured id stick to my guns and vote anyways. People seem to fail to recognize how bad these users were and i think the proof of socks with IP connections is enough. My only thought is the various socks that have come up the past days out of nowhere... to defend them. We need to be on the EXTREME lookout for people that show up and act like them. We generally know how they walk and talk so it shouldnt be too hard to pick them out. Feudalplague (talk)

There was a day and time that sockpuppeting was a crime justifiably punished by banishment. None of this voting nonsense. They're socks, we have evidence, and they're gone. That's just my two cents. Also, hi guys, it's been too long. Cour *talk* 04:11, June 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * Are we seriously voting on this? -- 06:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, we are. And if they were sockpuppeting and there's proof then anybody should be banned, no matter who they are, end of story. Awesome history 28 (talk) 18:07, June 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * This petition is ludicrous. They (or him/her since they are really one person) have been given God knows how many chances to become decent users (or a decent user). 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

I love how someoneone put a petition up and we all said yeah they got what they deserved. Combined with both the petition not being really valid plus the fact it agrees with what has been done. All these arguments are a waste of typing because we all agree they are a bunch of sockpuppets, vandals and harrasers. Person67 (talk) 15:22, June 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * I love how people think a petition is going to unban these guys. And by people, I mean Oct. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki
 * This is fine as far as I'm concerned. We aren't AH.com where we won't shut down your thoughts or petitions, but we won't always accept them either.  "This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 04:10, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

...Seriously? Sigh... Lordganon (talk) 23:28, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

TbombTheAltHistorian
I have just permanently banned TbombTheAltHistorian for continued harassment. Over the past few months, I blocked his account for continued duplication. His only two responses were incoherent gibberish whose purpose was to harass and threaten me.

The following are the two rants which he sent to me.


 * May 22
 * July 1

Since his second response was purposely to continue said harassment, I have taken the liberty to permanently ban his account. I feel this is justified. -- 03:07, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * It appears as Tbomb has started a second account, Queen's Own Rifles of Althistory. I have permanently blocked this account as well, as he is circumventing his previous block. I will be reporting this to Wikia.


 * Secondly, to both Tbomb and Nathan (who has also contacted me about this), you both bring up that you have been diplomatic and that I'm in the wrong. Tbomb, the only two messages you sent me were pure rants with no room to work out a solution. -- 16:54, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

~ Sockpuppet

Sockpuppeting is not allowed. Please use one account on this wiki.

Tbomb received 4 warnings, whereas I thought Nuke only gave 3, so Tbomb has actually been given more warnings than most.

Nuke, learn the proper manner of blocking in order to prevent use of sockpuppets.

21:32, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Scraw, what do you mean by "proper manner of blocking"? Was there a setting I missed? -- 21:49, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Prevent other users from logging in with this IP address" That prevents creation of new accounts to bypass the block.
 * 22:15, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I've already enacted that feature when I first blocked Tbomb. He has stated and proven that he is using proxies to make new IPs (hence his "IP police" rants). -- 22:20, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

...Yeah, if they can use multiple IPs blocking them by it does little to stop them. Guy's obviously a nut anyway.

Nathan, for shame, fyi.

Lordganon (talk) 23:27, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

The Purge
I am deleting many things. Yesterday I cleared out the pages marked for deletion and preserved anything I thought was unfairly marked. If you have anything of your own that you would like deleted, mark it with the delete template and I will remove it. If you're not sure about it, I can always restore the page later. Also, be on the lookout for bad pages. If you see any bad pages, please mark them for deletion. Here is what constitutes a bad page: Together we can make althistory wiki great again.
 * Two sentences or less
 * Gibberish/nonsense/spam
 * Future history
 * Derivative works

04:17, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

I see no problem with this. Scraw has my support.

 Consul Ioshua  [[User talk:JoshTheRoman|
 * 1) Beware! ]] TSPTF_Badge.svg 04:18, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Fix your signature.

23:57, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

History
Um this may sound weird but ever thought of a history for the TSPTF? Like making the wiki or fantasy I don't know, but I thought that would be cool and to help make would be cool.... Lieutenant113 (talk) 02:12, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Rennovation
After seeing Mitro's blog on what happened to this wiki, I'm proposing a series of small renovations. Note that this initial suggestion is going to be concise and can be elaborated or elborated on. What I suggest first is a major adjustment to the navigation bar. Here is an example of the current navigation bar proposal.

Navigation Bar
The "On the Wiki" tab is unaltered. The next tab, "Useful Stuff" (the name is up for change) contains "Guide to Alternate History", which is a guideline to beginner alternate historians. What I propose for the base of this, is my guide. Which has earned praise a few months back. Other contents of this tab also include "Points of Divergence", which is a huge list of PoDs. We aleady have this page, but it could use more polishing and organizing other than dates. Next up is "Timeline Ranking". This is a major expansion on the concept of Featured Timelines. Based on quality, a timeline will be ranked. If somebody requests a promotion, or a demotion, than a promotion or demotion request can be submitted, similiar to how TSPTF nominations or impeachments work. An example of proposed ranks can be seen here.

Onto the next tab, "Community". There wouldn't be much change other than the "Community" link would link to here, a link to the Sterling Awards, and a link to the "Turtledove Awards" (name is up for change again). The Turtledove awards is actually a set of awards proposed by Scraw. These awards are on a monthy basis, compared to the annual Sterlings. Scraw himself can elaborate on this if he wants down below.

The next tab "Projects". The "Timelines" link would simply be a list of timelines with their rank accordingly. The next link is the same suggested page, without ranks. "Other Projects" would simply be projects that are not timelines or map games.

The next tab "Help", would be a directory to all things TSPTF. "Reports and Suggestions" would redirect to the TSPTF Talk Page and the next link is self-explainatory. The next link is "rules". Note that these rules would not be specific, but more of a guideline on what a user could be punished for, both on chat and on the wiki. A proposal can be seen here. These rules rallies for what should be common sense: no slurs, no quarelling (this is not debating, but is more so direct name-calling), no spamming, etc.

Note that this is only the proposal of a new navigation bar and pages with it. I'll be posting the rest of my proposal later on, including statements against the cronies.

 Consul Ioshua   #Beware!   02:30, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

As of popular request I've also added a "Nominations" link to the "Help" tab.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   14:59, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion
This sounds pretty good but personally I'd also like to see the user rights page on the navbar, so that people can easily get there and see who's attempting to become a corrupt official TSPTF member. SkyGreen24 14:01, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

These sound like great ideas, and I agree with Sky, the request for user rights page is much tool hard to get to. A few other thing that might be good to update are the the Experts page and list of althists page, both of which are somewhat out of date. In particular, the list of althists page could do with some cleaning up (It also might be a good place to look for Scraw's purge).

I have added the TSPTF stuff to the bar.

20:53, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Looks good, could we get a brief summary of the Turtledove awards and what they entail? Also I like the rankings thing, though it could be problematic. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 21:38, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

To begin with, I am opposed to calling them the Turtledove Awards, or calling them anything at all. They would be simple: "Article of the Month" for a well written article in the past month and "User of the Month" for a user who did lots of good work in the past month. And we would do them every month. The winner would be decided by voting.

00:17, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

More unnecessary reforms. Cool. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 05:51, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

I am against the winner being decided by voting unless only the mods/admins etc. would vote. You cannot guarantee that people will not count in irrelevant factors (e.g., their relationship to the nominee, personal ambitions) to their decision.

As in any vote. I favour the ranking by the users having the same conditions as the Feature History (registered users with 100 or more edits), Any way to highlight the collaborative/group/open/semi-open/community timelines in the toolbar at least? Besides a common template and policy and adive page. JorgeGG (talk) 13:20, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Since this has been up for two days, I'm going to assume everyone but Crim approves of everything included in this section: Written Rules, Scraw's Awards, and Timeline Rankings. I'll get started making the pages for them.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   15:34, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Tbh I feel votes get messy and take up unnecessary time, especially if they are going to be every month, so maybe just have a couple of experienced users decide behind the scenes via chat/talk pages, to avoid popularity coming into play, like what Candies said. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 21:17, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Turtledove awards each month are pretty iffy since most active users just play map games. I think it should be every 2 or 3 months. That way, the awards not only have more competition, but they also have more prestige. Navigation bar would be good, I guess. Ranking timelines is utterly needless. Want an opinions column? Write one in your blog. Rules thing is highly unnecessary. Barring our own conventions on what AltHistory is, we follow Wikia Central rules. MGOC is entirely unneeded and needs to be dismantled altogether, its power being delegated to the TSPTF. This is a website, not a courtroom drama where we need separate committees.

Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 07:48, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with everything Crim has said except that I think the Turtledove awards should occur monthly. Asides from that, I cannot stress my support for having a capable neutral elite chosen based on merit vote in these short of events in place of common peasants users, to avoid popularity/personal feelings towards that person etc. from having a role in decisions.

Crim, if timeline rankings are useless, then the Stirlings and the proposed Turtledove awards are also useless. They serve as motivation to improve timelines, projects, and encourage more devotion to the wiki.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   20:45, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Contests are fine. Having set TL ranks is a far different thing. It's an opinionated matter and it's just going to fall out of use. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 20:51, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Well if you think it is going to fall out of use anyway, there is nothing lost in giving it a shot, right?

Except my time. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 23:16, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

You don't have to do anything... I'm pretty sure Josh and others would be perfectly willing to organize the whole thing.

No, but I'm going to have to clean up after all the angry users who think they don't deserve this rank or that rank. I'm going to have to deal with more fighting on chat. And then, when this inevitably falls out of use, I'm going to have to clean it all up or explain to people why it isn't used anymore like the countless other things we've done that didn't work out. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 23:41, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

If fighting picks up on chat, then disabling it will not be out of the realm of possibility. Talk pages were created for a reason. Imp (Say Hi?!) 01:52, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

There is a major difference between voting on timelines, and ranking them by how "good" (or the like) they are. At best that is fighting waiting to happen. We see enough of that with the ASB system that we were "obligated" to add.

Turtledoves? That is the name of the awards on AH.com. >.>;

Really, given the makeup of this wiki... Awards on anything other than a yearly basis don't work.

Lordganon (talk) 15:59, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

Rules
After pointing out to Josh a rule page already exists, since he has shown interest and created an article which makes clear what he means, Josh will be updating the original rules article, after which the article he created shall be deleted. Just a small note to avoid future confusions. Imp (Say Hi?!) 02:23, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Reddit
You may not know, but there is an AltHistoryWiki subreddit on Reddit. Although it may not directly relate to the wiki, if spread far enough, it gives us a horrible image across the internet, from the AH community to Reddit. Imho it needs to be shut down immediately. Some all of the posts on the reddit are direct harassment and could be used against them. Not to mention we can point out that the people running this wiki are the cronies. As far as I know we can contact the Reddit admins, present the evidence, and get it closed. I'm not sure how to approach this though. Suggestions are welcomed down below.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   04:57, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion
I second this motion. 05:01, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, we must shut it down Lieutenant113 (talk) 05:08, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

I think it's kind of funny since most of what they're saying is really stupid, but getting that shut down might be a good idea. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 07:35, July 14, 2016 (UTC) https://redd.it/4ry0w7 Trish pt7 (talk) 20:43, July 19, 2016 (UTC) I agree, it is not reformist or counter-culture, just trollish.Trish pt7 (talk) 01:51, July 17, 2016 (UTC) One line is even "State of Terrorism on the Wiki: The Msist State of Ratc and Map Games (صمإسمحالة الجرذ-ج وخريطة الألعاب), an unrecognized faction on the wiki dating to 2014, has claimed responsibility for latest attacks on chat". Another says "Rare JoshTheRoman sighting today at the Baltimore Airport". Trish pt7 (talk) 01:57,. July 17, 2016 (UTC)

He rants on here against LG and others and threatens to use 'Racts' http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:Mscoree/Rage_Against_the_LG Trish pt7 (talk) 03:08, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Proposal
I'm happy to be joining this wiki, especially with friends being already here, but I would like to propose some ideas friends have. The first thing is a User Appeal page where the a user can appeal a decision made by an admin, by making negotiations with both the Admin and Scrawland. One of the major complaints friends have about this particular wiki is lack of a way to defend against unfair rulings by Admins. My friends have told me about multiple cases where Admins unfairely banned and/or permanbanned users. I have also looked through this page and can see that voting on the wiki is apparently highly discouraged.

I don't see why in a world of democracy this is considered the right way to do things. Sure, there needs to be Scrawland to do the ultimate overseeing of things on the Wiki and maybe even make some calls, but does it mean this Wiki needs to have a dictator who always seems to back Admins? If it weren't for this system, this whole fiasco with Crimson that is on here would have never happened. I can understand the Tbomb incident, what he was doing was very aggressive in nature, but these users hadn't even been on the wiki for long durations and had done nothing wrong at the current time. This wiki looks like it will be fun, but it does appear to need change. Remember, change is a good thing. TheGreatTiger (talk) 15:22, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

All administrators are elected and can be removed by a vote.

20:38, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah.

...You know, I'm just going to assume that this guy is more of the same. Seems in every way like another one of our blocked users.

Lordganon (talk) 16:02, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

Potential Return of the Cronies
So today, July the 19th, 2016, I and many others were on the chatbox discussing things. JoshTheRoman, United Republic , and others began discussing the banning of the user known as Newalle. Josh essentially started the conversation talking about how Newalle was very suspicious, and that there is evidence he is a crony. The evidence is as follows: Similar trollish profile pictures as other cronies, editting MS' secret portal, and also selecting Oldenburg as a new player right off the bat in PM4. Feud said that he checked and there was no evidence of him editting the portal. That is when I stepped in and linked to this. The link shows Newalle linking to the Squirrevolution wiki. You can go on the wiki and check the content on what is there.

This also casts suspicion on another user of the wiki: Trish Pt7. (S)he is one the frequent editors of the Squirrevolution wiki, and admits in their profile there they are the globally banned user, Whipsnade. UR also speculated that due to the similarities between Trish and another user on that wiki, they were the same person. The Squirrevolution wiki also has a collection of IPs that may or may not be cronies. Also, here is proof the wiki was created by the now perma-banned user MS.

I am not sure if this was already brought to the TSPTF's attention before or not in regards to the wiki itself. However, the evidence found today is new, so I decided to post it here. Thanks. Blocky858 (talk) 19:39, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

I never edited any "portal". I simply saw Trish's edit in the edit log and when I clicked on it, it seemed like vandalism. He says in the edit log that he is fixing a broken link, but the first link worked fine. So I assumed that Trish was vandalizing the page, since it had someone else's name on it. I have nothing to do with Trish or his wiki, I was just trying to fix vandalism and truth be told get some edits so I can actually edit PM4. Also how is my profile "trollish", it's a historical photo. Newalle (talk) 23:43, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, let's settle down. Blocky, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Fact of the matter is, that wiki is entirely run by them. There's no sugarcoating it, and you just don't find that by accident and then happen upon the wiki. You just don't. To grant them amnesty is naive and idiotic. Sockpuppet or no, if you're going from their little wikis to ours, you're looking for trouble. And let me tell you something about trouble, it's something I'd rather not go through right now. So I'm going to note this: Anyone found associated with that wiki will be blocked permanently.

Crim de la Kremlin - "This is my signature. That means I just posted." 01:23, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

Just found this on their reddit, guess I'll post it here for further discussion.  02:00, July 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * Just had Tbomb message me. I will be bringing this and the Reddit situation up with Wikia. I also went ahead and placed this page under protection to prevent further spamming. -- 03:34, July 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * So apparently they've taken it upon themselves to post my picture on chat and my talk page. Kinda sad, really. Hope I looked good. Crim de la Kremlin - "This is my signature. That means I just posted." 17:35, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

Crim, I'm really sorry that they have stooped to this level of harassment. However, I must ask you to not instigate them any further (such as this). This will only make the situation worse.

I have brought these attacks up with Wikia and Reddit. -- 20:35, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

This is getting out of hand. I just stumbled on this https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistoryWiki/comments/4vn068/august_1_terrorist_attacksrevolution_megathread/ -Stepintime

PSA
We have all seen how crazy the AH Wiki subreddit has gotten by giving known trolls an area to congregate, spam, and participate in their weird internet cult-of-personality meme crony Ms worship stuff. It also gives your regular banned trolls a purpose to continuously mess with this wiki in the name of the "crony cause" or whatever (ideas/"memes" can get out of hand, especially on reddit), and a haven to come back to and get kudos from their fellow trolls. While this wiki is not as bad as it was last year with all the drama and trolling (let's keep it that way), I fear that the subreddit will become a permanent ulcer in the side of the wiki.

Since (I believe) the subreddit is out of our jurisdiction, the #1 thing that we all can do is to just not play along in their stupid games by subtly teasing them or even directly antagonizing them. The veteran trolls on the site have proven that they will act like children. Therefore we must treat them like children by ignoring their hissy fits and therefore forcing them to change their personalities and move on.

In short, don't comment or start threads on there. Please.

Bfox out

—Bfoxius (talk)

Changing the font size of the wiki
Hey, I wanted to know if there was any desire to change the size of the font on the wiki to the older size font, so that we have more space and the like as we use to before Wikia updated the skin. Here's an example here, where the font is in the older size. For the new size, just look at the articles here and compare them. If you want me to change the font, feel free to vote on it here. Naturally, I would like the TSPTF's opinion on the matter. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:45, August 21, 2016 (UTC)


 * For


 * 00:21, August 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> SPQR Emblem Transparent.png <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">#Beware!  TSPTF_Badge.svg 16:32, August 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Against


 * Discussion

Wow! I completely forgot about the size change (been a couple of years).

Though it won't help site-wide, you could easily change your personal settings to make the font size larger. I did this years ago (hence why I forgot about it). All you'd have to do is add the following code to your personal wikia.css and you should be good to go.


 * 1) wpTextbox1 { font-size: 14px !important; }

Other than that, I don't see a problem with changing the font size site-wide. Provided we don't go overboard (simply keeping the font roughly 14px). -- 00:21, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

I have personally resolved this problem by setting my zoom settings to 90%.

00:41, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

13 Fallen Stars Vandalism
Avrontheviking vandalized 13 Fallen Stars with insults to Nuke, Scraw, and the TSPTF. My guess is that he is probably part of the Squirrevolution, perhaps an alt of one of the Cronies. -- Orange (talk) 23:13, August 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for reverting their vandalism. Fairly certain that it's Tbomb. I've protected the page for now. -- 23:25, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

ASB Reform
For as long as I can remember the category known as ASB has been as diverse as political ideologies, ranging from reasonable if unlikely, to raging insanity. What I do not understand is why a timeline that is unlikely, but not impossible, is put into the ASB category with the truly insane timelines. Having your timeline put into the ASB category is in some regards the same as putting a tag on saying "crap", which discourages writers from continuing their efforts on the timeline, as well as making it so fewer people take the writers work seriously. Now I am not saying every once and a while a good ASB timeline comes along, but I feel like that ASB needs to become 3 different and separate categories, those that are Unlikely, but not impossible, such as a group of small colonies rising up against the worlds greatest military power and winning; Geographic Timelines, which would remove timelines where different things happened on the map such as a continent had been pushed further by tectonic plates, and just plain old ASB, containing the truly ASB timelines, such as magic, aliens, and other generally implausible things.

I feel as though this division would not only allow for writers to feel more welcomed and wishing to experiment with there work and research, but also help in general for categories and help streamline searches, such as if I wanted a timeline on Australia still being connected to Java, leafing through ASB would in general take a lot longer than looking in a Geographic POD timeline category. The same goes for unlikely timelines, many timelines get put in ASB if whichever moderator tends to see it doesn't know the backstory or research put into it, discouraging unique timelines.

I know I am not a moderator or an admin, but I honestly feel like this is more than necessary, I feel it is urgent if we want our wiki to grow and diversify.

Thank you, -Nova

I completely agree. All to often do we have people give up on timelines simply because a moderator with no understanding of the period and location of the TL, labels it as ASB, not because of any knowledge of the subject but because of their personal feelings. It would be invaluable both to the wiki and its users to see a complete revamp of the ASB tagging by the admins, as it would encourage people to be more willing to join up and contribute their ideas for timelines, rather than being put off by the label and just turning to map games. Nova has a point that I am willing to support. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:01, September 3, 2016 (UTC)

I feel that the ASB markings are being used excessively to express disagreement by higher-ups over plausibility. Yes, sometimes timelines can be too implausible and deserve ASB markings, others are fairly plausible (such as a Confederate victory), however most TLs that are marked as ASB are being treated unfairly. Not to mention, once a timeline is marked as ASB, many consider it to be poorly made and should not be taken seriously. Therefore, I do support Nova's proposed reforms to change ASB standards. 00:07, September 3, 2016 (UTC)

I would approve if this was a more detailed plan. What kinds of ASB timelines are there? How do we treat them differently? and how do we tell the difference between them? Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  01:18, September 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to abstain for the time being. I agree that ASB is probably overused in situations that don't involve aliens, magic, etc., but the way we properly categorize ASB TLs is based on how its ASB. For instance, we have: So, our current ASB-labelling system, while it has some inherent flaws, including a lack of peer-review, isn't bad in the sense that any type of implausible timeline can find a home within its specific ASB niche. That's my two cents, and feel free to add other ASB categories I forgot in the above list. 17:04, September 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Category:ASB - Aliens
 * Category:ASB - Biased  - This is the really pernicious tag, with it you cannot be considered for a Featured TL status, I believe. It should only be used for TLs where the author shows an explicit bias in his/her writing.
 * Category:ASB - Diseases
 * Category:ASB - Environmental - Akin to a "geographic" tag, this isn't necessarily a badge of discouragement.
 * Category:ASB - ISOT
 * Category:ASB - Magic
 * Category:ASB - Map Games - Lets face it, some map games are inherently ASB or earn this designation throughout the game's process.
 * Category:ASB - Miscellaneous - I honestly don't know what this category is about... this seems like it may have been overused in the past.
 * Category:ASB - Monsters
 * Category:ASB - Multiverses
 * Category:ASB - Random - I'd be open to eventually sorting through this category, as admittedly a lot of fledgling work that isn't fleshed out yet ends up here.
 * Category:ASB - Technology
 * Category:ASB - Time Travel
 * Category:ASB - Wars
 * Category:ASB - Zombies

Hmmph. It is very obvious by their post that Nova has no (or little) clue at all that it is already divided up.

Removed the "voting." That's not how this kind of thing works and everyone knows that.

No way to determine "Unlikely" versus impossible - that part is more or less nonsense. "Unlikely" timelines are not ASB, and aren't in any of the ASB categories. If you feel that one is, bring it up on the timeline's talk page with a coherent, real, argument why it should not be there. Not a single one of their "examples" of "unlikely" timelines would be classified as ASB, barring something else being added to them.

General rule of thumb is that if someone makes an ASB timeline, they are already well aware that it is such. Those who are not, either the issue is corrected, or is obviously something that is going to be left alone (user posts a tiny page, mostly nonsense, etc.) Very rare for anyone to take issue with it, and I have yet to see one of those where the community actually agreed with them.

Things such as a Confederate victory or a Nazi one aren't impossible (Barring a sea lion without a ton of changes, which is always going to be) just unlikely. Things such as that need to have a logical reason for it, be plausible in context, etc. Almost none are, which is the problem. Heck, saying that they won but not saying anything about the "why" is normally acceptable. These simulations/reasons could be things that make it outright possible, or change it to another category.

For example.... Turtledove's "Guns of The South" has a Confederate victory (and taking of Washington) at virtually the end of the war, which is normally 100% impossible and would be marked as Biased.... except here you add time travelers giving them enough AK-47s to outfit their armies and win, which would add Time Travel and remove the Biased. Going the route from his other main Confederate Victory storyline - an alternate Antietam campaign leading to European recognition - is not Biased or anything of the sort, though unlikely. Most of the good non-biased Confederate Victory timelines on here are more that route. Nazi ones have the same overall problems, just with more nonsense added - and a lot of people ignoring the Soviets entirely.

The "ASB-Miscellaneous" tag is for ones that don't really fit the others. Some could probably be moved to Biased, but didn't go far enough for me to think it the best fit, or are too sensible in most regards to be Random. This is more political timelines than anything, if I recall.

"ASB-Random" is the sheer nonsense ones. Best example I can recall is this Hitler-Alice in Wonderland thing which will give you a headache if you try to read it. Admittedly there has been things originally marked as this that were later moved, but that is more because they went past the original line or paragraph and gave actual reasons. Something like "Monkeys take over the world" is going to go here, but if you took that to the Planet of the Apes direction, it would leave here and go to another section, probably diseases and technology off the top of my head.

Note, too, that the bar on bias in the featured timelines is something that long predates this system.

Lordganon (talk) 19:00, September 8, 2016 (UTC)

Comment
I agree with Nova think it's time for some change withe "ASB - Biased" category and the ASB category in general. Only timelines that are virtually impossible to happen should be added to the category biased. Unlikely, but possible timelines should not. For example, I'm currently fleshing out my timeline Celestial Ascendance, where China and several other nations are the main superpowers. The biased tag still kinda bothers me, but not to such an extent that it's a mayor nuisance. Since my timeline has many pods, some quite early in history, the world would be unrecognizable and the timeline would be possible. Another objection Lordganon had about my timeline that the concept of women gaining equality in early history is "ridiculous". I still disagree, for example women in Ancient Egypt were seen as equal before the law, surprisingly egalitarian. Other societies such as the Celts also granted women many privileges. So I don't think it would be impossible for a woman, who is in the supreme position of power, to change a part of society. After all, Wu Zetian was known to be a master diplomat and manipulator who had any threats eliminated. ASB-Biased should be for very implausible or simply silly timelines where many illogical things happen like: "Paris Hilton becomes Empress of America" or "X conquers the world". And if a timeline gets labelled ASB or Biased, people should be able to discuss it with the one who claims it its ASB.

So I propose we vote on it, for the better

Civciv5 (talk)

An Appeal
Alright, so I never thought I would do this but, oh dear. The timing for my recent ban is just poor. So, a suggestion: mind unbanning me someone? Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 00:38, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Alaluhukbar
Vandal uploaded pornography, removed the content and blocked the user. SkyGreen24 14:34, September 17, 2016 (UTC)

Vandalism by a sockpuppet
Recently, the banned user called Tft191 has continuously made sockpuppets and has been banned. This time, he came back as user LordMarlborough1 (to spite a new user of our wiki) and has been vandalizing pages in general (as well as Edge's talk. I appeal for his ban. AM, the King of the Banat (talk) 17:39, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I already blocked the sock. If he returns and causes more trouble I'll give him a longer block.

20:57, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Galleries
Hi,

So it appears two things have happened to galleries on this wiki. The format got changed and looks awful (as seen ) and now you can't even ADD them.



Note that other features are now removed.

This was a bad idea and I suggest you bring back the original format and the ability to add galleries once again.

Thank you,

I agree with UR's proposal to bring back the old galleries. I was editing some of my pages and really disliked the new gallery format. 20:28, October 1, 2016 (UTC)

TSTPF Approval Poll
Hello all, its your resident demigod here with a new Google Form for you all to fill out (Since I really, really like using google forms), Anywhoo. Almost all of the Timelines on this wiki have some sort of political focus. One major  part of politics is public opinion. So I thought it would be interesting to create a public approval poll for the various TSTPF memebers. Most of this information is in the actual form, but I will also list it here: Anyway, here is the form. Again, this is purely for curiosity sake, its not a vote for the sake of making actual policy desicions. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL 07:50, October 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * You must have a Google account to partake. This is to limit the number of duplicate or repeat voters.
 * However, I, or anyone else, can not see your user name. Your username will not be made public, nor will anything you vote here be used against you. This is purely for curiosities sake.
 * Only memebers with 5 edits in the last 2 weeks will be listed.
 * There are several questions here that involve the promotion or impeachment of a user. Regardless of the results of this, people will not be impeached or promoted based on this poll. We all know Josh will get 0% approval ratings, but he won't be impeached with out a formal, bidning vote.

Kudos to Edge for coming up with this idea. We should do this on a quarterly basis to make sure the TSPTF is doing a good job. Every active user here should fill it out.

18:40, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

A Lack of Consensus? I'm Done!
I'm very confused and frustrated at the most recent series of events. As of today, JoshTheRoman began altering several site-specific articles (e.g., Alternative History:Request For User Rights).

From my perspective, it's as though Josh was acting unilaterally. I came to this conclusion because because there existed no discussion or consensus on the matter. Throughout the years that I've been an admin on this site, there has always existed a communal conversation on such major changes.

In the case of this particular situation, there existed no open conversation. Because of which, I concluded that they were unilateral and reverted them. I asked Josh to refrain from doing unilateral edits, at which point he informed me that they were, indeed, authorized. I than asked for clarification and confirmation, and received a series of screenshots from chat.

The two takeaways I received from these screenshots: important site decisions were being made on chat (which I don't use) and that I'm regarded as a nuisance (if not worse).

I first wish to say that I acted based only on the information which was placed in front of me. If vital decisions are being made on a platform that I don't use, how was I to be aware of them?

Secondly, I stand by my decisions as an admin as based on the information I was provided. I acted civilly and went through the correct channels as I have done for years. Do these actions warrant the title of nuisance?

Lastly, I'm fed-up done with all of this. Over the past year, I've seen countless signs that I'm no longer welcomed here (with this being the most recent). Months of harassment, trolls, scolding, and now admins openly expressing their disdain for me.

I honestly don't know how to take it. All I can say is that I'm sorry. All I wished was to create alternate history, create maps, and help others. Clearly, I've been helping no one. I don't wish for this to end. But If I'm truly the nuisance that everybody paints me to be, to be seen as nothing more than a lightning rod behind closed doors, than what is left for me to do? -- 01:38, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

Nuke, you're seen as near-vital to this wiki, been active, useful, and dutiful as a moderator and we can't have you leaving. Sorry if the screenshots were seen as discourteous. As far as I know, no member of the TSPTF opposes you as moderator, and no offence to LightningLynx89, but the user previously said is known for his rants, outbursts, and agressiveness on chat often, and is not to be taken as a representation of everyone on chat. Monster Pumpkin did not express a disapproval of you as a moderator chat, but only your recent actions, by all means, he also supports you to stayy here I'm sure. We still want you on the wiki, Nuke.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   02:18, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

I realize that I don't really have an decision making power, but personally, I appreciate you contributions to the wiki. While I certainly thing you could ease back a little on the image duplication bans, you are definitely a good admin and a good contributor.

As for you being considered a nuisance, I think that's mostly people who have been banned. People don't like being banned, and people also like to make a mountain out of a molehill, as the saying goes. While I would certainly support changing the rules regarding bans and images, I think we can all agree, we need someone to keep duplicates in check. Right now, you're the only one doing that, and on behalf of the community, I extend our gratitude to you for those services.

In conclusion, I'm really glad your a member of this community, and despite being on the receiving end of your warnings, I can't say I'm angry about it. After all, someone has to regulate the images on this wiki, and I'm glad that you have stepped up to this duty. And while I can't think of one right now, I'm sure there's some quote somewhere about people doing the most good being unappreciated. That quote, wherever it is, might as well be explicitly about you.

Lmfao

Nuke, mate, I've not done much editing here over the last 2 years, but I've lurked a bit, and I remember how important you were from when I was a contributing member of this wiki as well. I'd say in the past 5 years, LG is the only admin who can say he contributed more to the administration of the wiki than you. Josh maybe an Lt (y'all just handing that shit out now, huh?) but I've got no doubt that he respects your opinions.

04:52, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

If you are referencing my comment Nuke, it was directed at Josh and not you. Anyway. This is petty nonsense. Josh shouldn't be renaming these pages on his whim, and when he asked if I supported him on it all he told me was that he edited the navbar, not rename pages and such. But Nuke you also shouldn't have undone it on your own. Both of you should have came here first and discussed this issue with the rest of the TSTPF and user base. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL

Summary of the Results from the Approval Poll
The poll has lasted about 2 days now, and 19 votes have been casted. Rather than go through every single result, I will write a brief summary here and leave you to look at the full data here. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL 06:20, October 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * As individuals, most TSTPF officers have a high approval rating. The highest come from MP and Sky. Scraw, Nate, UR and I all have the exact same approval rating.
 * The general consensus is that none of the sitting LTs are ready for the brass role. Ignoring noncommital responses, Nuke and Viva where rated to be the most supported for Brass. It is interesting to juxtapose this with the approval rating vote, as Nuke and Viva are some of the more polarizing LTs.
 * Of the sitting Constables, I am the most supported for LT, with UR and Nate close behind.
 * Of the normal users, there is a general consensus that no active user is fit for Constable.
 * As a whole, the orginization has a plurality of voters who believe that the TSTPF is not an effective orginization (8 votes no, 7 votes yes, 4 votes unsure).
 * 57.9% of respondents have a greivence with a TSTPF member that they feel is impeachment worthy.
 * 73.7% of users believe our voting System is effective.

Also, to whoever put "me" as their answer for who should be chadmin, no one can see who you are. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL

I Need Some Help With Formatting, Please
I'm a newbie here on this wiki, and I've been starting work on a couple pages. On one of the pages I'm working on, I have a four-way race in an election infobox, but only the first candidate's picture is showing up. All of the pictures in question have been uploaded to the wiki, and only the picture in the first position is appearing.

I've asked a couple experienced members of the wiki, and they can't seem to figure out why. Would anybody be able to help?

Here's the page in question - althistory.wikia.com/wiki/United_States_Senate_Election_in_Virginia,_1994_(The_More_Things_Changed)

Thanks again!

AltHistoryVibes (talk) 05:18, October 28, 2016 (UTC)

Duplications and Punishments
I've been on this Wikia for almost a decade now. I monitor all files being uploaded to the site and remove duplications. My reasoning for which is the same today as it was back then: what is the purpose of having one image being uploaded multiple times for as many articles? Why not follow Wikipedia's model and use only one?

Over the years, I have upgraded how I handle duplications. For the most part, I follow a three strike system. Anyone who uploads a duplication, they receive a warning. Accidents happen and new users are still learning. A second duplication will get stronger warning. A third will result in the temporary suspension of their account (usually for one week). It duplications continue, their account is suspended longer. Rinse and repeat. In the event that a user uploads a duplication months after a warning, they simply receive a new warning (instead of another strike).

At the beginning, I rarely need to suspend a user. But over the past few years, I now find myself doing so on a regular basis. Ironically, I tend to receive the same message back from them: "why did you block me?"

I have recently been given permission to create a tutorial page which will fully detail duplications. What I have in mind would focus on the following issues:
 * 1) Why I (for the most part) have been working to curtail duplications on this site.
 * 2) Why uploading file duplications are a bad idea in general.
 * 3) What does and doesn't constitute as a duplication.
 * 4) A step-by-step process on how to locate desired files (especially for non-source editors).
 * 5) How to properly upload vector files if they don't exist already.
 * 6) The system of "punishments" that I've used against users who continue to upload duplications.
 * 7) How other users can assist against duplications.

But before I begin writing such an article, I feel a discussion needs to be held on the issue of duplications. The biggest question is whether I should continue doing this. But I'm also open to additional suggestions. Such as differing methods of punishment and new warning methods. I also wish to address many of the issues related to the visual editor which [virtually] all new users are using and how to properly locate and use the desired files.

I look forward to having this conversation. -- 23:37, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

I support your current practices and ideas. I hate files with crappy names like georgewashingtonpicturewikpedia.svg.png.jpg and all that. You're doing the Lord's work, son.

02:20, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

Pretty harsh thing to ban people over such things, unless they are a massive serial offender showing nothing but disdain to the TSPTF in regards to keeping things organisied. I give you major props for that tutorial page though and I'm a bit shocked a page which explains to users how to do those things is not already in existence. Hope ya'll doing well fellas! --<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:04, November 21, 2016 (UTC)


 * I've started the article and intend to expand upon it over time. The page is marked as a proposal until it is complete and approved. As mentioned before, feedback is welcomed. -- 19:57, November 28, 2016 (UTC)

Chat Rules
This has been requested for a very long time. Apparently, common sense doesn't come into play when you guys say some of the things you say. Yes, our moderation of the chat is very lax, and it will continue to be so. We want chat to be a place where our little community can come together and let their hair down. Talk about whatever they want. We've never posted rules because chat is held to the same rules as the wiki itself and will still continue to do so. Since we've never posted the rules, some people have decided this is an open invitation for them to say literally anything they want. This includes: After they receive punishment from a moderator, they complain that there aren't rules laid out, so they assumed they could do whatever. Let me clear this up: you can't say what you want. This is not a democracy. You're bound by rules, just like everyone else. Big surprise, I know. Moderators are the judges elected by the community and will enforce the Wikia Community Guidelines as best we can. Arguing with us on whatever block you have received is a waste of our time and yours. There's a reason the cronies are banned, kiddies.
 * Verbally attacking people
 * Using racial/homophobic slurs
 * Brigading against certain users
 * Posting links to explicit content

Recently, there was an incident that was the final straw. One user, while in an argument with another, attacked the other with a racial slur. After being kicked, he argued that he had the right to do so.

Anyone who believes this is deluding themselves. As administrators, it isn't just our responsibility to uphold the rules of our own site. As a Wiki, we are bound by Wikia site rules, which must be upheld.

For the lazy, here is the ENTIRE user conduct section of the Wikia Terms of Use:


 * You agree that you will not use the Service in any manner that is contrary to the Wikia Community Guidelines, which may be updated from time to time. Without limiting the foregoing, you also agree not to use the Service to:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">You further agree:
 * Abuse, harass, threaten or intimidate other Wikia users;
 * Post or transmit any content that is obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive, profane, or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party, or content that contains homophobia, ethnic slurs, religious intolerance, or encourages criminal conduct;
 * Attempt to impersonate another user or person;
 * Post any illegal or unauthorized content or use for any illegal or unauthorized purposes;
 * Post or transmit any communication or solicitation designed or intended to obtain password, account, or private information from any Wikia user;
 * Post, upload, transmit, share, or store unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, solicitations, "spam", or any other type of unauthorized solicitation;
 * Solicit personal information from any user under the age of 18;
 * Violate any laws in your jurisdiction (including but not limited to copyright laws and laws regarding online conduct and acceptable content); or
 * Post advertisements or solicitations of business.


 * To only use the services in a manner consistent with these Terms of Use and in compliance with applicable laws and regulations;
 * To maintain the confidentiality of any password(s) associated with your use of the Service;
 * To notify the company immediately in case of any unauthorized use of your account;
 * Not to intentionally block, remove, or otherwise obstruct the proper functioning and view of advertisements, and/or user interface and functionality, including but not limited to changing or adding javascript or CSS changes to the Service that would prevent the proper display or function of advertisements and/or user interface and functionality;
 * Not to upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any material that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy, limit the functionality of, or enable unauthorized access to any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment;
 * Not to upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights of any party;
 * With the exception of accessing RSS feeds and our API in accordance with the Service’s policies applicable to such access, you will not use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access the Site for any purpose without our express written permission;
 * Not to forge headers, or manipulate source identifiers or otherwise attempt to disguise the origin of any content made available via the Service;
 * You will not: (i) take any action that imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; (ii) interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site; or (iii) bypass any measures we may use to prevent or restrict access to the Site, including robot exclusion headers; or
 * Not to access, collect or store personal data about other users in connection with the prohibited conduct and activities described in this “User Conduct” section.

Yes, these rules extend to chat. You are held to these rules by having an account. Don't think you're bound by them? Your account doesn't belong on the wiki. Play by our rules or don't play at all, end of story.

For those who have followed these rules, which is the vast majority of you, I give you my thanks. You are responsible for keeping this site a friendly and relaxed community. This site would not be where it is now without people like you. For many people, this site is home to very good friends and your ability to act like an adult has allowed this to happen. You truly have my gratitude. I wish I didn't have to post this giant wall of text, but it's apparently a necessity.

Thank you all,

Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 02:07, November 26, 2016 (UTC)

Categorization Reform
I think we should reform the way we categorize timelines. Having everything grouped under "Timeline" or the various ASB categories is not useful. I think we should categorize timelines by POD. I have a list of general categories and we can come up with more. The main POD categories I have thought of already are as follows:
 * Ancient timelines (Superpowers)
 * Medieval timelines (The Kalmar Union)
 * Napoleonic timelines (Napoleon's World, French Trafalgar, British Waterloo)
 * Civil War timelines (A Southron World, Two Americas)
 * World War I timelines (Central Victory, Twilight of a New Era)
 * World War II timelines (War For Our Time)
 * Presidential election timelines (Step in a Different Direction)
 * Cold War timelines (New Union, 1983: Doomsday)
 * Other

Other should really be used very sparingly as most timelines should be sorted into one of the categories. Obviously more categories than the ones I have listed should be created but these are a good starting point.

After a discussion, we will have a vote.

22:36, November 30, 2016 (UTC)

What about Revolutionary time period timelines? Golen II (talk)

I am in favor of this new categorization system. Possibly grouping by years for more modern time periods may be more effective, but they look pretty good to me. Cour *talk* 02:51, December 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * IIRC, I believe we did have similar categories many years ago. However, they were purposely removed with the support of the TSPTF. I don't recall the admin who initiated this, but this event will need to be clarified in order to avoid conflict or confusion. I will attempt to find the original conversation in the backlogs.


 * That being said, I love the idea. Though I think these should only apply to macro-events in history (such as the Napoleonic Wars, WWII, etc.). Other than that, you have my support. -- 03:01, December 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: I found the conversation in question. It looks like Pita manually removed dozens of categories back in May 2013.


 * Now that I think about it, he may have only removed them specifically because they "violated" the naming convention (rather than for what they stood for). Either way, you might want to ask Pita. -- 03:10, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

In my opinion, it's a good idea, but we might be better off with a few more categories for the ancient and medieval sections. (Iron age, Antiquity, etc.) -Fires

I agree with this idea, and categories should be big time periods. In my opinion a category should be made for the 1500-1800 period, to be called "Rnnasanice". I would shy away from creating many categories.

Stepintime (talk) 15:55, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

My stance is very simple: I support Scraw's proposal. FirstStooge (talk) 17:12, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

I support Scraw's proposal. -- Orange (talk) 16:49, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

I like this proposal, but I think time periods will work far better than events, especially for timelines with more obscure PODs, which under this scheme, would be grouped into 'other.' The Guardian of Forever (talk) 19:50, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

Scraw, this is GOOD. Exceptionally good, your Terrible Majesty. However, I'd point out that some of our old categorizations have been useful to some extent and shouldn't be simply thrown out the window... like magic and geographic pods, etc... the rest is good, Scraw. You have my support and my allegiance. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 15:41, December 4, 2016 (UTC)

Reporting bibleboyd316
Hello. Most of you probably know the name "bibleboyd316" on this wiki. Today I am here to report his actions. As many of you know, bibleboyd had been inserting information that doesn't make sense into other peoples timelines, without their permission. After undoing some of his nonsensical edits in The Dragon Splits, bibleboyd proceeded to call me "autistic" on my talk page. Additionally, you may have seen when he gets mad because people remove his edits; he called the wiki "judgey" for taking them down. In conclusion, bibleboyd performs what I consider vandalism, and is also immature.

-- Orange (talk) 17:06, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

Compait the Tr0llis, Trellis, Suirreluotin, Relvaluation, Bibleboyd316, Demoted Squirrels, Cubana Airways and Squrring Revolutions and WWW. Buttheads V. Suirrels. Com.22Gouveia22 (talk) 21:45, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

Bibleboyd alt
I just found that bibleboyd has created an alternate account (or a "sockpuppet"), ISAM97. I know that this is bibleboyd because the account was attempting to restore bibleboyd's unwanted changes to The Dragon Splits. If it hasn't been done already, I would recommend a complete ban of his IP address; however, I believe that account creation has been disabled for the duration of his block. Therefore, unless this account belongs to a friend of his, bibleboyd may have multiple IP adresses; this may be a point of concern.

-- Orange (talk) 22:16, December 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * Considering that he tried to delete the above, and since FutureWiki has already found him to be a sock by their own means, he is almost certainly BibleBoyd's sock. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 17:01, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

Seems like they've been blocked on most wikis they've edited on. I went ahead and blocked them. -- 21:14, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

Bibleboyd, again
Today, this is concerning a message he sent to NovaSims regarding PMIV. Nova's plans as China to invade the Delhi Sultanate (the nation I used to play as) have faced discouragement from LordMarlborough. Bibleboyd encouraged this; I have no problem with him encouraging the invasion, but I find the exact language he used quite insulting and unacceptable. He told Nova to "**** Delhi up." This can be found on his talk page. I assume this is rooted from an old grudge on both me and the nation of Delhi, when our expansionist nations came into a conflict; the conflict was a decisive victory for Delhi. I also believe that he blames me/Delhi for getting him banned from PMIV, adding to the grudge.

Since it was only one message, I think the punishment should be toned down to a warning on his talk page.

-- Orange (talk) 04:41, December 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't believe an issue in PMIV is a large enough concern to warrent TSPTF action, but thank you for voicing your concerns nonetheless Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  04:44, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

It should be noted that Bibleboy is a frequent butcher of the English language: the message in question was "**** deli up"[sic].

Nevertheless, why I respond to this because he also left a message on JoshtheRomans talk page saying "i enjoy porn … do you?" (1)

I am that guy (talk) 04:48, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Talk pages
Some User:Eatmemfs rudely changed the name of one of the talk pages. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_History_talk:The_asshole_committee/Archive_5?diff=1399429&oldid=1343903 Boldmouse2 (talk) 03:43, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

On United Republic's Abuse of Power
Hello, gentlemen. As you can probably tell by the title, I am officially making calls for the impeachment of United Republic from the TSPTF on grounds of abuse of power, per his attempt to get Kost banned without any basis for it, his constant mocking of other users, disrespect of those who oppose his will, and has, at this point, become a sort of anti-Ian, whom, if I might add, owns AH.com, and I have the bad feeling that United's presence in the TSPTF is turning it into the same political bias of the moderators of AH.com and at the same time, it is also harming the Wiki's attractiveness to other users. So, I hereby call for the removal of United Republic from the TSPTF under these grounds. - Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 17:29, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting.


 * 1) I did ban Kost for 999 years for creating dozens of sockpuppets under the names of FreeKost, BritishKost, etc., however that ban is gone. Like, it completely vanished. I'm not sure if someone removed it, but the record of it is completely gone. In fact, I'm letting Kost tell his side of the story and I'm open to alternatives to bans. Strangely enough, Ace was the only one who was being intentionally hostile to any user on chat at the time.
 * 2) I like messing around with people. Most people on chat do as well. If I've offended you, I'm sorry.
 * 3) I'm not sure when I "[disrespected] those who oppose [my] will." A true instance may be needed for that claim.
 * 4) I have never once banned someone for political reasons. That is one big fat lie put out by you. If I'm the "anti-Ian," then why haven't I banned you forever? If that claim was true, I would have banned you permanently on the grounds of you having different opinions than me.

Ace, I understand you don't like my presence here, but you have to accept that I'm here and I'm here to stay. Please don't waste the TSPTF's time with poorly constructed and obviously false claims. 17:41, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

Ace, this request should really be posted here, in the section handily titled 'Impeachments'.

As for UR, though I don't particularly approve of his antics on chats and his general attitude, I've never seen anything impeachment-worthy. Kost's ban was entirely justified, and though I've seen a few unwarrented kicks from him, they are all done in a generally jokey or good-natured manner, which is fine. So yah, nah. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 19:07, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

Ace, stop kicking up dust. It's annoying. All UR has probably done was tell you your opinions are wrong and lets face it Ace your going to have to get used to that when regardless of whether you are right or wrong. 99.99% of people think you are wrong. Person67 (talk) 20:01, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

No. Toby2: THEY CALL ME Mr. Awesome!!!

Ace, one single word: NO! Why do you of all people start calling out for impeachments everytime something happens? You need to accept humour and see that his nature is.. not ill-willed towards you, not really. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 20:14, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

No Ace. Sockpuppets are blocked forever. This is not a point of contention. As for your other points, this seems to be an opinion singularly held by you.

22:30, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

No. I think we're starting to see a pattern here. <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua   <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Vae victis!   06:31, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

The answer is no, Ace. I've seen nothing warranting any discussion of impeachment, and neither have any of the current admins or moderators. This issue is done and over with. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 04:51, January 2, 2017 (UTC)

The TSPTF Over-saturation Situation
In the last few months I've noticed a bit of a tricky situation arising. In chat, on any given evening, the number of TSPTF members online is quite high. More than half the chat tends to be a chatmod. It's great that chat is being used extensively by prominent members of our community, however this over-saturation of chat mods in chat presents a number of issues. First up, it sort of reduces the prestige of the job title of Constable or Lieutenant, if when you pop on chat most of the people there have the badge by their name. Secondly, it effectively negates the power of any new Constable, because as chatmods cannot kick other chatmods, you can only flex your kicking leg on less than half the chat. Finally, it also kinda exacerbates the prevailing issue of TSPTF being a popularity contest, and leads to less people actually using their powers because there is always several other mods to kick or ban a disruptive user. If there is a user who maybe ranks in the same tier in popularity amongst the community as many TSPTF members, they would feel left out on chat as the only one not to be a chatmod. The user would strive to be a TSPTF member not to try and organise and moderate the wiki, rather to get the little badge next to their name.

Now, to try and lessen the concentration of TSPTF members who are active to attempt to tackle this problem, I mentioned to Scraw that I wanted to quit and have my powers removed. I never end up using them these days anyway, as there is always someone else there to do the job for me, and my rollback powers are essentially useless as anons can't edit anymore. Scraw however thought this scandalous and insisted I put it to a vote, so here we are. I am also suggesting we reduce the rate at which we hire new TSPTF folk until at least some current members have gone inactive.

That's all - FP Now 10% edgier!!! 23:35, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

Let Me Quit

 * FP Now 10% edgier!!!
 * Deadly State of Mind (talk) 23:39, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * I mean if you want to leave, who are we to stop you? ~Fires
 * #FreeWill 카와이카매] ([[User talk:|카와이카매talk) 00:13, January 11, 2017 (UTC) (KawaiiKame)
 * —Bfoxius (talk) 23:08, February 7, 2017 (UTC) (there are people here who are better at what they do than me)

You can't quit! That's scandalous!

 * <span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;">SPQR emblem.png <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Vae victis!  TSPTF_Badge.svg 23:58, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry FP Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess  00:13, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

Discussion
I wanted to address this in a 'state of the wiki' address on this talk, but FP got ahead of me. As for his retirement and removing of his powers, I support him to do what he wants. It's unprecedented, true, but I believe it is necessary. Deadly State of Mind (talk) 00:55, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

The Banning of Octavian Marius
Oct should not be banned for the alleged action of linking Kost to the Conworld's Discord. Linking a Discord is never established to be a rule on here and the Discord is not even our Discord, it's Conworld's, so why does it matter? Oct should be unblocked from both the wiki and the wiki chat because he did not violate any rules. 카와이카매, 03:53, February 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * Wait, what happened? Did you guys seriously block someone for actions they did on another site? Please clarify. -- 05:00, February 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * UR did ban Oct for apparently inviting a troll who is very damaging to our chat community to a Discord (which works like Skype) of another wiki (Conworlds). I am opposed to the ban, tbh, Nuke, but make what you will of it. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">    [[Image:Cthulhu.jpg|30px|link=User blog:Thewolvesden]]     [[Image:Wolf hd by arma3lonewolf-d8m9rto.jpg|38px|link=User:Thewolvesden]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  09:25, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Though I may not be as active on this wiki as much, this is actually quite strange. When I first Oct was banned for such a long period of time, I thought it was because of a major flaw he may have conducted on the wiki whilst I was away. Fairly understandable. Then I came to learn that he was banned from the chat wiki, due to linking Kost to the Conworld's Discord. I find this personally ridiculous on many levels. One I don't know where this proof is of Oct even linking Kost even is, so I'm even skeptically that he did it himself. But let's say Oct did for some reason link Kost to the Conworld's Discord. That's where things really should be obvious. He linked him (potentially) to the Conworld's Discord. Not our own Discord. Now if he did link Kost to our Discord, then you'd have more grounds and more validity. But he linked Kost to a Discord, which only common thread to our wiki is simple alternate history discussion. Plus, that is none of business anyway. We're simply being allowed to talk there. What Oct did on the Conworld's wiki should not be grounds for a ban for however long he has been given, it's simply ridiculous. Besides the mods over at the Conworld's wiki even agreed they had no problem with Kost being linked. Oct should not be banned for simply linking someone to a Discord that we don't even "own." It's Conworld's Discord, not ours. It's egregiously stupid. .....  Because I'm Just... Too... SSSWWWEEEEEETTT!!!   9:41 PM PST February 5, 2017 (I don't use that dirty GMT system)

I agree that Oct should not be banned on the absolutely nonsensical grounds of having linked a blocked user to a site that is technically none of our business and not within the jurisdiction of our rules. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 07:45, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'mma just say a thing. "Screenshots or it never happened." <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">             <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  17:33, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

I have not seen any evidence proving Oct is guilty. Also, a fucking Perma Chat ban is ridicuolous. Even if he did link it, that was a conworlds discord, not our safe space against Kost, which is our Wikia discord. If someone actually linked our Wikia's discord, perhaps a 2 hour chat ban would be reasonable, but that was not the circumstance of this. Besides, Kost tells us he found it on his own. UR has been relentless with the accusations, accusing me of linking Kost to chat, however, oct is his main suspect. This is the same person who banned Vinny for "Not being in the Christmas Spirit"  - Warrior

I agree with the various points made here. I previously shortened the block because I thought it was excessive and because I did not have all the information. It would now appear that the accusations leveled against Oct are baseless and therefore nonpunishable.

17:58, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Why was I elected if everyone complains about what I do? Maybe I should unblock Tr0llis, Fritz, Ms, Harv, Ratcolor and others.... Hey they were banned for nothing, and I supported it because they were such awful users. -UR 18:22, February 7, 2017 (UTC)


 * They were blocked for the primary technicality of sockpuppeting, not to mention harrassing users and their family members offsite and obtaining personal information of users. Not to mention the terrible but not illegal ways they cheated and ruined several map games. Hardly comparable.
 * 18:50, February 7, 2017 (UTC)

UR, you do realize what you just admitted? What Tr0llis et al. did went against site rules on multiple occasions. Yet for Oct, you pretty much just admitted you only blocked him because "they were such awful users." I genuinely do hope I'm wrong on this, but this is indefensible if true. -- 19:59, February 7, 2017 (UTC)

Ban of Kostdanila

 * Could someone also explain the situation with Kostdanila? I'm aware that they were banned for SPing, but what was the justification for his first block? this states that it was another unjustified block, is this so? While I agree he shouldn't have been SPing (this goes against site rules), but an unjustified block in the first place is also not acceptable. -- 19:31, February 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * He was banned for abusing a racial slur (n-word) in chat for two hours. He proceeded to create sockpuppets because he felt it was normal. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">    [[Image:Cthulhu.jpg|30px|link=User blog:Thewolvesden]]     [[Image:Wolf hd by arma3lonewolf-d8m9rto.jpg|38px|link=User:Thewolvesden]]    <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  20:35, February 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * Kost is COMPLETLY, 100% justified. He was told to stop using the n-word with a hard -er at the end. He was kicked numerous times and eventually recived a two hour ban for it. His response was to create several HUNRDED sockpuppets to evade the ban, a violation of Wikia and Our policies. In fact, looking at the ban log, he was unbanned from the wiki at one point after making a deal with Scraw (the deal itself should never have been made but its irrelevant to my next point) and within 3 days, he was chat banned again for using racial slurs. And once again, he started making sockpuppets to evade the ban. Now I don't know where Nate is getting that Kost's ban was unjustified, but its completely false that its unjustifed. I know for a fact that I warned him to stop several times, that I kicked him several times, but he insisted that because of his "cultural differences" he was allowed to use that word and that he did nothing wrong, thus making his ban illegitmate (thats what I have gotten in conversations with Kost, not Nate). Just because he didn't understand banning protocal (based on the ban longs, this is why Nate had him unbanned), does not mean he gets a pass. In fact, we made it clear to him that he couldn't use the racial slurs he was using, and he proceeded to disrespect us and felt himself exempt from the rule because he was Russian.  Furthermore, its 100% irrelevant if his ban was unjustified or not. You can not, under any reasons, create a sockpuppet for the purpose of evading a ban. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL 22:20, February 8, 2017 (UTC)

I see. Thank you for letting me know. He has been warned multiple times and refused to cooperate. If he continues to SP, I will continue to block them and bring it up with Wikia if needed. -- 01:09, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

We already did that, Nuke. About seven times. He uses Tor and some VPNs, to boot. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">             <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  01:17, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

We have all contacted Wikia several times. They are powerless. It's on us.

01:56, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

I may not be a Mod, but by the standards of this wiki, I'm an old coot in terms of length of usage. I fully realize my words are pointless, but in my humble opinion we should let Kost off with a warning. Yes, Sock-puppets are bad, but the initial offense is kinda weird given the Wild West atmosphere of Chat and the fact that, as a Russian, the full cultural understandings of what he did may not be fully comprehended. From what I understand, he's from somewhere in Sibir, so a lack of understanding on the issue can seen especially with the former meme of "Guns Nigger Please" from ye olde times. Yes, yes, I know we cracked down on that back in the Crony Purges, but IIRC that was about the time the wee lad joined the site. And besides all of this, Kost hasn't tried to vandalize and has been rather civil with his socks unlike many others. As the High Sky God Scraw noted, there's also not a whole lot we can do about it anyway and it just creates a lot of undeeded stress for the mods, especially in these trying times were Rain Drops and Drop Tops occur. Therefore, the motion to abdjucate the punishment of the Russian before Godzilla like antics occur should be motioned.

Yes.

&#123;&#123;SUBST:GBSig&#125;&#125; (talk) 02:05, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

No.

03:38, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

I disagree wholeheartedly with GB. While I completely understand the angle he is coming from, in my opinion, ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking them, nor is the claim that "just because he's Russian he wouldn't understand". Frankly, he could simply be acting like he was ignorant, but could in reality be aware of what the rules are. I can't be completely certain about his motivations, but the rules are the rules. While Kost's original offence may have been minor, he still created hundreds of sockpuppets, causing a massive inconvenience to chat-mods, instead of waiting out his temporary ban, which is really not that hard. What he chose to do is completely unacceptable throughout Wikia, and so his ban was completely justified. After all, when we joined Wikia, we agreed to the terms of use, one of the clauses being: "You will not: (i) take any action that imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; (ii) interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site; or (iii) bypass any measures we may use to prevent or restrict access to the Site, including robot exclusion headers,", i.e. activities like sockpuppeting are prohibited. If one does not obey the terms of use one signed when they joined a network, then they lose the right to use the service. If leniency is showed, the admin team is demonstrating that it will grant reprieves to offenders who apparently "lacked a full understanding of the rules and culture of the wiki". And people will be watching. People who would love the opportunity to exploit this potential loophole in the system. So, I support Scraw in saying no to granting a pardon to Kost. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 04:43, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

I don't disagree with eventually unbanning him. Yet there are a series of probelms right now which stop him from being unbanned.

He refuses to stop saying the n word. He wasn't banned the first time he used it. He was given a 2 hour ban after being told several times to stop shouting it.He was unbanned under the condition that he did not use the wotrd and he contuined to use it so he was re- banned. It isn't really ok to just say the n word like it's meaningless or use excuse "I am a Russians therefore I follow a different set of rules". Same rules for everybody regardless of IRL nationality because then I could just claim I am Somalian and everything is fair game. We need to have  a set list of rules which everyone must adhere to.

The whole sockpuppet thing has been a great source on issue for mods. I am aware he doesn't agree with his first ban but that is no excuse, he needs to follow the rules. He can't just sockpuppet it shows that he doesn't respect us. He doesn't deny that he will only follow rules he agrees with. That isn't how any society works. I don't agree with the way taxes are done but I still have to do them because everyone else is fine with them.

For him to be unbanned eventually which is possible down the road he would need to:

1. Take a few months to chill to just show he understands how our system works with no sockpuppeting what so ever.

2. He needs to agree not to use the n word or follow any other rules laid down.

3. Next time he is banned for 2 hours he needs to write a written complaint on TSPTF.

I understand that some mods will disagree with me and we are all varying levels with Kost. Since I know he won't agree to that though it makes no difference and we need to start banning people tempoarily for communicating with him. Frankly if no one talked to him at all we could just ignore him. We can't ban him the whole time but we can ban users for communcating with him whenever. It's far more likley to work and it isolates him. Person67 (talk) 07:55, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

I disagree with Person. Communicating with Kost shouldn't be a bannable offense, and on AH.com people are allowed the communicate with people who are about to get banned and thier system works out just fine. Communcating with trolls is allowed on AH.com and the trolls get instabanned.

Ethan, sign your posts. As for ignoring him, I saw first hand what happened. He spammed a wall of spacebars, turning our chat blank for seconds. Ignoring him is not viable. He wants attention. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">             <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  19:36, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

we can't ban him fast enough. it's fine for the mods to say "well I can ban him all the time" but there are other uses. Kost wants intention so we need to starve him off. We can't take him out but we can take out his supporters. Person67 (talk) 20:32, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

No dammit. I will talk to kost if I wish.

- Warrior

Warrior, it matters not if AH.com allows users to talk to trolls. We are not AH.com. If the admin team here decides that they will enforce a rule that you cannot communicate with trolls, then you'd do well to follow it, lest you yourself get into hot water. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • <font color="#006400">Contribs ) 23:40, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Policy Change: Minimum Edits to Join Chat
After discussing with several memebers of the TSTPF, I am motioning today to implement a new wiki policy; a minimum edit policy to join chat.

Here is my proposal, and I open this to debate and discussion among the user base.
 * A User must have 50 edits to be allowed to participate in chat.
 * A user may be invited to join chat by a member of the TSTPF.

Simple as that. Discuss below. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL

Yes.

Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 06:00, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

Ok the 50 edit thing I get and agree with it. The second point confuses me, so is it you need a TSPTF user to invite you even when you have 50 edits or is it that a TSPTF member may ignore the first rule at their discretion? I mean I guess both make sense but the former less so. Person67 (talk) 09:19, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

Second point is unappliable, due to European-time users having an under-representation in the TSPTF. And I do not see why you are trying to enforce this rule, Edge. It's ok-ish, but it won't bring in new users who want to participate in a discussion before they set up their timelines. My vote is no. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">             <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  17:59, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

The second part is simple. If someone needs asistance with something, say an infobox, and they reach out to a TSTPF memeber to help, the tstpf memeber may waive the first rule. The issue we have been having is that in the past week, we have had several users join chat with 0 edits who show no intent of contributing to the wiki. A few of them, but not all, have been shown to be trolls or just plain inflamatory. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL

I am not convinced this is a good solution. This will still kill most of the stuff we do. And we don't want half-assed timelines made by people just to be able to join chat, now do we? <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">             <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  22:11, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

Orphanage
So, I wasrecently thinking (like 30 seconds ago) of how to get rid of old timelines I wasn't working on anymore. It was suggested I put them up for adoption, and give it to the first taker. The problem O found with this was that there wasn't a centelized place were one could adopt a timeline. So, to make this simpler for me (maybe other users, but mostly me), I propose we create an "Orphanage" were people can put timelines up for adoption. If there is consensus, I'm willing to build the page whenever, though someone else could as well.

Best regards
 * ~Fires

I support this idea.

01:04, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Go for it. But be warned it will be pretty time consuming. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:51, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

I believe there already is a place. It's called Category:Open For Adoption. What would be different about your page than this page which already exists? 19:56, April 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * I knew there was something like this already. Just couldn't pin it. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:01, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

On United Republic's Impeachment (Again)
And......here we go with copy-pasting the recently attempted impeachment of United and asking for TSPTF consensus, since I forgot to account for the rules. Oh well......here it is.

sighs* You boys probably saw this one coming from the beginning. So, I am going to start listing a bunch of bloody reasons why on Earth United should be impeached and why he should be barred from any further entry into the TSPTF. <p style="font-weight:normal;">
 * 1) He has practically abused his power and scared away new users.
 * 2) He is practically baiting Ace009 (me) into doing something that would get me banned in the first place, and earlier today, he openly admitted it. Do not believe me? Here is a screenshot provided by Octivian as evidence:


 * 3. Creating an unfriendly environment for literally the entire community.


 * 4. Having used his power as a means of repressing the ideas of specific users.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And thus with that, I call for the immediate impeachment of United Republic from his office as a TSPTF member, and send a clear message to future TSPTF members that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. <p style="font-weight:normal;">

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So, prepare your votes!

<p style="font-weight:normal;">'''Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 00:40, April 21, 2017 (UTC) '''

<p style="font-weight:normal;">So, any opinions?


 * I appreciate Ace being kind enough to inform me that Oct is connected to this. Just to remind everyone, Oct has stated multiple times that he is indeed a sociopath and, for those who do not know, sociopaths are highly-skilled con-artists who seek nothing but to cause chaos, pain, fear, and abuse. I cannot Ace has the audacity to accuse me of those things yet ally with someone who's mind is programmed to do those aforementioned acts.


 * From this screenshot, you obviously you cannot take the slightest hint of sarcasm. You and Oct have been waiting for my impeachment for MONTHS. This baseless attack comes as no surprise.


 * By the way, me """"baiting"""" you sounds like a personal problem. You'll need to learn how to fix that one, pal.


 * I've got better things to do than argue with you and your slimy sociopathic ally. Good riddance. 03:31, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

Posting a full response since I now have the time. Firstly, UR, this response 100% showcases a major issue. You condescending and dismissive right out of the gate. What does it matter if Oct took a screenshot for him? Oct hasn't even posted on this yet and you are attacking him. If I or Scraw had posted this screenshot, what would be your defense? Your only defense is that Oct is a sociopath (I have never heard him claim this and you present no evidence) and that what you did isn't a problem. More on that in a second.

Then you claim this is sarcasm, but I am inclined to forgive Ace for any """sarcasm"""since it was over text and I'm not even sure where the sarcasm kick in on your tirade you had.

Then you claim baiting him is his problem. But its a problem with your position since no one sans Scraw can actually punish you so you are free to spam and harass him all you want. So it is a problem of your position. Even then, baiting him, doing things to get under his skin, is not his problem when everyone could clearly see you where doing what you where doing to bait him into getting banned.

The biggest issue here is in your response to this. You are in the wrong in this scenario, but you try to take the moral high ground. While I don't think this is impeachment worthy in itself, I find your response and attitude about this disturbing.

Since you won't argue with them, I hope you will grant the person who nominated you for chadmin and admin the privilege of a response. User:Edgeofnight 03:36, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Edge on this one (and in the sake of full disclosure: I opposed UR for LT). The events should not be impeachable, but the general UR attitude towards his powers are less than stellar. I didn't capture it in a screenshot, but I recall UR spamming the space bar with another user (I forgot who it was, but User #2 ended up kicked). If he wasn't a member of the TSPTF, he should've been kicked. I admit I haven't been around too often lately, but if this happened in one of the days I dropped by, I just wonder: what else has UR been up to?

If I must remind everyone, when he was nominated for LT, one of the reasons given to vote for him was "we can always impeach him if he gets out of hand." Has that time come? In my opinion, probably not. But this should serve as a reminder before we go giving furhter TSPTF powers willy-nilly on the basis of popularity. 19:53, April 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * "I appreciate Ace being kind enough to inform me that Oct is connected to this. Just to remind everyone, Oct has stated multiple times that he is indeed a sociopath and, for those who do not know, sociopaths are highly-skilled con-artists who seek nothing but to cause chaos, pain, fear, and abuse. [...] I've got better things to do than argue with you and your slimy sociopathic ally."

UR, you're acting like this is some conspiracy or plot to take you down. This isn't House of Cards. Oct and Ace, misguided as they may be in an impeachment attempt, don't want to gain anything personally, they just think you're being a dick, and they're totally right. The solution is clearly to stop being a dick, and stop blaming your problems as a mod on someone else maybe-kinda-sorta-but-only-jokingly a sociopath, and someone else who you find annoying.

Fires

UR has apologized, the situation should be noted in case it happens again, but for now this issue is closed I would say. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL 20:08, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

Unitedpeachment Round Three
Alright, this is getting a bit out of control here. You know, I am getting tired of United's cyberbullying. It is constantly turning into that. Besides, I am going to place bets on the TSPTF having a policy on this kind of situation. If not, I have no idea when they could implement such a policy against cyberbullying. Either way, I am probably going to have to call for the third time, an impeachment on united on the ground established in the second attempt, as well as on the grounds of cyberbullying, a situation which I feel cannot be tolerated. Much less by an organisation as pretigious as the TSPTF, so.....round three, anyone? Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 03:14, May 8, 2017 (UTC)

No. I saw what happened. It was not impeachable imho. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL

Are you bloody serious, Edge? Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 03:17, May 8, 2017 (UTC)



<p style="text-align:left;">My god the constant attempts to get UR constitutes bullying yet one paragraph of text with no examples of what actually happened. Ace, grow a pair and stop calling for impeachment everytime UR doesn't like. Man up a little bit the TSPTF is not your mum and it is not a teacher so don't cry to it because he called you a sillly billy. Person67 (talk) 05:56, May 8, 2017 (UTC)

No. Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 06:53, May 8, 2017 (UTC)

Indeed we should impeach UR for refusing my hand-in-marriage. Hope he reconsiders and becomes my senpai Purinsu

Please stop. Get off chat for a while if you seem to be having an issue. Indeed I am sorely tempted to ban chat for a week or two just so we don't get more stupid problems like this and actually get people interested in things other than a map game. Imp (Say Hi?!) 08:21, May 10, 2017 (UTC)

My Resignation
I've come to the conclusion that my position in the TSPTF is no longer a positive. I have neglected many of the duties I signed up for, and the drama my position has attracted is more than I want to deal with. I joined this wiki to explore history, not to be involved in petty feuds over internet politics. Thus, I am resigning from my position.#BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL 05:45, May 21, 2017 (UTC)

There's a Problem
As we've no doubt seen, the AltHistory Wiki is currently a very toxic community. Users openly attack admins over games and petty squabbles while the weird internal politics somehow divide the TSPTF. There are two main reasons for this and I think both need to go. So much of the wiki's activity comes from map games and chat. We're barely an alternative history wiki. We're a chat room where people come to play text-based EUIV and argue about whatever map game is being played. Every once in a while, someone makes a new ACTUAL althistory and it's just ignored and never read. Administration is more interested in playing map games than actually working out the kinks to the wiki or helping users with their real alternative histories.

This is why I call for the removal of all map games from this wiki. This wiki is about seeing what happens after you change one or more things in history (a PoD). In map games, the PoD is basically "everything after this year is different for some reason." That is not alternative history. That's gaming. We are not a gaming wiki. I propose all map games be moved to another wiki and all current participants in the game be notified of such action. This wiki could be the Map Game Wiki or it could be another wiki that is officially associated with ours.

I also propose getting rid of chat for at least a few weeks. Imp suggested this and I'm simply expanding upon this idea. If map games are the cause of this toxicity, chat is the wiki's outlet. As it turns out, ridding the wiki of the cronies was only part of the problem. There are alternative chats through which users frequently communicate with each other. I'd suggest using those until we sort out whether or not chat should stay and go. If it does stay, something drastic needs to change. We have a kick button and a chat ban button. They both need to be used a LOT more when things go sour.

Will we lose traffic? You bet. This measure is basically bringing us back to the sleepy wiki we were before map games got so big. But here's the thing: it's traffic I don't really want on the wiki. The people we would be losing are toxic and they're the people who are only here for map games (and should be on our associated wiki). Lovely people, some of them, but the wiki is for alternative history, not some weird, gigantic, map-game-related squabble. You have friends? Get their contact info: Skype and Discord are a thing.

I've got some happier ideas, too, but I want to bounce this whole thing off the administration first before I call for an official vote or do anything else related wiki revamping.

Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 17:23, May 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * Completely in support. As an olive branch, PMIV will not be shut down but will be the last map game on this wiki for the forseeable future. Close down chat whenever you feel fit Crim. Wait it might have to be me. Now I know Scraw doesn't really have a problem with closing down chat, in his words it would mean less work for him. I definitely think it should be closed down, before we set up a discord link or whatever. Those who still wanna stick around for that probably wanna stick around the wiki for alternate history in general. You have my support. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:14, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

I personally enjoy them (albeit a bit much) but they are kind of my holdover while i wait to get off the ground here in my post grad years so i can actually start writing on my Timeline alot more. It does indeed keep me here. If i didnt work 50-60 hours a week id probably write on my timelines a bit more, but games like PMIV i do notice cause problems, but nothing that hasnt been mediated by some of the veteran users adopting the "okay whatever kid" stance on alot of stuff which i think is fine. If anything i think chat needs to be removed in favor of a fully fledged Discord server. (See Halo Wikia for the perfect example of how to implement a discord server).

Outside of that maybe we should actually offer some incentives again, in my opinion traffic while increasing but of less creative individuals is purely cause we havent really offered incentives to do anything. There are no contests anymore, there are no blog posts, its a whole host of stuff thats completely unrelated to map games. We need to bring back some livlihood to all corners of the wiki and map games i think keep a user base around enough to allow us to harness it and really bring some real life here. I want to see an active wiki, not a sleepy one. We just have to direct the energy and people in a more positive way towards creating new content or being active in our blogs or maybe taking notice of people who can make flags, coat of arms etc etc and appropriating their skills or having them be our go to people for picture creation content.

If anything we just need to steer the horse back in the right direction, not cut one of the stirrups.

I agree with the concern about the wiki, but I must respectfully disagree with the removal of map games, at least for now, as long as PMIV is running. Me personally, I don't like or hate map games, but it still has become a core to the wiki. Map Games is completely abandoned for the reason that using two wikies for practically the same community is not practical.

In my opinion, it's a drastic move that, like Feud says, is not the best course of action. Feud is right here, imo, and I'm one with his opinion. <span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#080808 45%,#000000 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#000000 45%,#202020 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">             <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#ffffff), to(#ffffff)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color=black face="Helvetica">Deadly State of Mind   <font color="#000000" face="Helvetica" title="Contribs"> Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  23:36, May 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact that it's the core is the problem. We're the althistory wiki, not the map game wiki. The map game wiki is dead because most reputable people here saw it as a festering hive of idiots lacking regulation or structure or real association with our wiki (or, at the very least, just weren't interested.) That's our reputation as a community. Not a place of real alternative history. There are no incentives we can offer. None that we haven't tried. Incentives are attacking the symptoms, not the disease. Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 09:35, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

I have no voting rights in this, but I argue in the negative based upon the conclusions rendered via the text based system of communicating and responding while we motivated the user base as to emphasis the meaning of our motivational speaking abilities to enhance our projections as to the rendered long term future of this means so as to achieve the best end result. Also, Pinochet was here. &#123;&#123;SUBST:GBSig&#125;&#125; (talk) 23:44, May 31, 2017 (UTC)

So somehow the platform is the cause of the toxicity. The fundamental issues with your proposal is that all your propose is taking the issues, and pushing them somewhere else. There is no solvency for your proposals. Thus I must oppose both. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL
 * Would you prefer they're deleted altogether and not moved/saved? Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 09:35, June 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * I would prefer you to come up with actual soultions since all you are doing is making noise about issues, but there is no solvency for these issues. You want to get rid of chat, but you also must realize that there is nothing different about discord that is going to fix the issue? Your entire proposal on that issue is just to move to another platform. That doesn't fix the issue. And Kicking and Banning people more often also won't fix the issue. I find it odd that two users who are infrequently on chat seem to know that shutting it down would fix it. Map games are not the cause of this wiki's toxicity. They haven't been in a long time. I know you haven't been active much, but since the cronies have been banned and PM3 has ended, the frequency of map game related drama has plummeted. Yes, it still happens, but you are never going to remove all of the toxicty from a community unless you just ban people you don't like. Do you know what causes far more drama on this wiki than map games? Politics. Are you going to propose banning all political discussion on the wiki? When I banned the N-word from chat, it caused more drama than the biggest feud in Pm4 ever did. Map Games are not the cause of drama, they are just scapegoats for people to blame for their own contributions to the toxicity. In fact, more recent drama (such as the one between Ace and UR) comes from users who don't play map games. So maybe we should be banning timelines? (I'm being sarcastic here.)


 * So instead of putting words in my mouth give me specifcs. What kinks have we overlooked or what users have reached out to help to have been ignored because of map games? Give me specific examples, names, times, everything. You are using extremely vague rhetoric to support already weak arguments. #BRINGBACK THESQUIRREL

I understand no voting rights but that's beside the point. If you don't want to do something don't. Many of the people supporting these proposals here obviously never go on chat or map games, so why does it matter to them? Yeah maybe map games can get a little bit odd but they are alternate history since they start at a point in time and stop in 2018 like a normal tl and they have attracted traffic before for tl's but most of all if you don't like them don't play them. The quality of tl's is not hurt by mapgames, the same argument applies with chat. Arguments from chat rarely spread over to the actual wiki itself, it exists as a seperate entitity which your under no obligation to go on and many don't.

I hear proposals to set up a discord link or something, then surely chat would still exist? Chat and map games are the more aggressive and heated parts of this wiki but if you don't like them leave them alone and they won't hurt you. More than enough people enjoy them and this wiki is not soley for the exclusive use for a couple of people who are happy to sit and write tl's alone in silence. We all know removing chat and map games at the least will drive down traffic signifcantly which is not a good thing for the quality of new tl's. Person67 (talk) 16:53, June 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Actually it would be exceedingly good things for TL quality. People would actually spend time on making their TLs noteworthy. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:58, June 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Do you really think that people not playing map games is going to lead directely to them spending that time on TL's or people will just come here less often. People put as much time into tl's as they want, a lot of the most obvious ideas such as WWII and Civil War have been done enough that people are running out of creativity. You can't just blame map games for declining tl quality. They're basically two seperate things and currently the wiki does both of them. Changing that won't help. Person67 (talk) 17:03, June 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * That is the point. If people cannot think iof TLs, then perhaps them not coming here is not a bad thing at all. This is an alternate history wiki, not the map game wiki. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:07, June 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * As long as I have been a part of the alternate history wiki we have never said either write a TL or go away. Fine I haven't written a good TL yet and with my abismal writing skills I may never actuallly manage that, I don't think therefore I should just leave for map game wiki which is shite especially when I have no interested in post modern map games. This wiki can be whatever our community wants it to be. Person67 (talk) 17:13, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

We have a real problem but it is not the problem you think of. The real problem is a growth in bad new users which exceeds the number of new good users. Map games did not even bring some of these people here; they did in fact come to write trash. We have all seen the pages I speak of, poorly named, rife with spelling errors, nonlinear and nonsensical. Similar users play map games. Illiterate, ignorant, and gleefully so. This is the crop of new users. Maybe they came here for map games but they stayed because they found their brethren here.

Scrawland Scribblescratch 00:48, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Why dont we require a certain amount of edits to play a map game?

user talk: Warrioroffreedom123 00:53, June 3, 2017 (UTC)warrioroffreedom123