Talk:Cities (1983: Doomsday)

I have used LG's figures, so any discussion as to the validity of the present day figures will need to be hashed out here. It would be nice, also, if separate pages, or at least paragraphs, could be written about major cities. I have done this for Toledo and Berlin. This page is a "proposal" due to the figures and rankings being tentative.

Also, if anyone has 1980 figures of the Canadian cities, pleas feel free to add them to the chart. If anyone needs to change the European list into a chart, feel free to borrow the format for the chart I used for North America. SouthWriter 22:01, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: ADD must have took over after I wrote this, for I never did make a separate article about these two cites. I like what LG has done with the article so far.

Evansville, Indiana (Now part of Kentucky.) 130,000 on Doomsday. Think it would grow after Doomsday, maybe from refugees?--Sunkist- 23:09, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Question: How do they feed those refugees and keep them from dying so they can become productive members of the town? Also how do they do this at the expense of the current citizens? Mitro 02:04, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't think a huge refugee population would get to Evansville. I'm sure rations could be strict, Kentucky's History doesn't go into detail over Evansville, I might return to working on Southern Indiana..--Sunkist- 03:15, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Been looking over Toledo's page, how was the city able to regain control after such needed resources, oil, food, electricity for the greater area of Toledo, and also handle the (if any) Detroit refugees? The looters and gangs wouldn't appear?--Sunkist- 03:26, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

They never lost it. Take any discussion about Toledo to that page.

As for Evansville, the 1983 population would be around the present atl one.

Lordganon 04:24, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

On another note, I'll see if I can scare up the Canadian figures, as well as adjusting my numbers slightly/adding a couple.

Lordganon 04:28, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering where did you get your figures from LG. I couldn't find the 1980 figures anywhere and how are you calculating the 2010 figures.--Vegas adict 19:51, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

A combination of wikipedia, google, and the city population site I listed on the main DD page and the externals list. The 1980 is an estimate - the figure is a year somewhere from 1978-1983, in reality - and I made an estimate in several cases using the differences between a couple numbers.

2010 is normally either a figure or estimate I lift from that nation's page on here, or crib from the 2010 figures (or nearly that year) based on the population of that country atl v.s. otl. For example, the capital of Ethiopia, while 3 million plus otl, decreases atl because the population of Ethiopia is much smaller.

I did make a few estimates too, or course.

Lordganon 02:39, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Cambridge, ON would be on the list too I think. It had a higher population than Waterloo as of 1991 (Couldn't find earlier numbers), and still has a higher one today OTL.Oerwinde 07:12, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

I did consider it at the time, but when I read the Wikipedia article, I noticed that Cambridge was forced to join into one city, and that the forced cities still consider themselves to be inhabitants of their own cities. Way I figure it, they would go back to being separate cities after DD. Also, Wikipedia gives a 1981 figure of 77,183 for the city.

Lordganon 07:41, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Cambridge splitting up goes against the Waterloo article though, its still one city.Oerwinde 09:00, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm well aware of what it says - as far as I'm concerned (no offense) it's something that was overlooked when it was being written. If I'd have looked at the article for Cambridge on Wikipedia when Waterloo was up for graduation I would have opposed it, quite frankly. Lordganon 11:15, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

City Growth?
Great list, but one thing that's left me baffled, is the growth of some of these cities by astounding numbers. Jervis Bay went from 500 to 500,000? And it's not even a city, but a village.

Then there's the American cities. With all the starvation/fallout plus the refugees, it would likely stay around 1980 levels in many cities, though this varies with what city we're dealing with.

Also, I've brought this up before, but irregardless of any growth, Cape Coral and Fort Myers are still two cities. There were much, much smaller back in the day building wise, and believe me I visited both cities in October, it's pretty hard in a Doomsday world for them to be considered one city. I'm sure there'd be some bigger growth, but there's more to uniting a city than just it growing and touching borders. 8 miles is a lot more than you think it is if your going to build it up. No doubt they're in the same metro area, but still two cities. St Paul and Minneapolis are still two cities, no? Arstar 06:48, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

The ANZC figures were retrieved from the ANZC article - and you forget that Jervis Bay is now the ANZC capital. I'd like to hear any others you think grew too much.

With the North American cities, you forget that these are the areas that largely escaped the fallout and refugees - and the refugees would make up for any dead due to the fallout. And you'll notice I did take the degree of damage into account with the figures.

I'm not arguing with you over the Florida city - you have your opinion, and I have mine. As for St.Paul and Minneapolis, both are large cities and quite frankly, if St, Paul wasn't the state capital it'd been annexed into the other one long ago.

Lordganon 10:58, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that Jervis Bay may have grown a little too fast. It may be the capital of the ANZC, but gaining 500,000 people in about 20 years... construction would have to be pretty shoddy in order to get housing up for that many people that fast. Having a population like that is doable though. Look at planned capitals such as Abuja or Brasilia. Although both of those are capitals of countries with ten times the population, and the resulting migration resulted in huge shanty towns.Oerwinde 12:10, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Then too though, the ANZC is also better off tech-wise, etc. than either of those two countries - and they also would not plan for a city of a certain size at maximum, which is where Brazil and Nigeria screwed it up, lol (Brasilia, for instance, was planned to have a max of around 500k people in it.... couple million now)

I never said I like the population for Jervis Bay, but that's what the article says:

"Other cities have also become prominent since Doomsday, none more so than Jervis Bay. In 1997, its location along the Pacific Ocean and the government's desire to have a capital more easily accessible than Canberra led to Jervis Bay being designated as the new capital. The full transition to Jervis Bay took ten years and was completed in 2007. The national government operates completely out of Jervis Bay today, and incentives have helped pushed the area population to just over 600,000."

Lordganon 12:46, December 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Regarding hyphenated cities, the lists are based on metropolitan areas that very well could have consolidated in order to survive after DD. I assume that LG's figure for Greenville is for an enlarged city that takes in Greer and Mauldin, at least.  However, even if not, as the capital of the new state (or nation), the increase is justifiable. The planned population shift to Jervis Bay makes sense and would include a large portion of the population from the old capital of Canberra. SouthWriter 17:22, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

For the majority of these it's based off the urban figures. If not that, the city ones - there's a couple cities where the urban is lower or doesn't exist.

Jervis Bay, supposedly, has a lot of the survivors from Melbourne and Sydney - Canberra has remained much the same population.

After some thought, I decided to fulfill both Oer and Arstar's wishes. Net result is a few lower populations, and Cambridge switched for Cape Coral-Fort Myers (by themselves neither is big enough to make this list). Made the West Texas city to just Midland, and adjusted as need as well. Added impact of the War to Florence too.

Lordganon 09:22, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Fargo-Moorehead
Well, that one caught my attention. It looks like I'm going to have to build up the Dakotas a bit! It makes sense that a twin city on the other side of the Red River would bond with Fargo. I am not sure of the population, or whether the capital of the Dakotas should be moved up to Fargo, but it gives us pause to think of the area given the Dakotas (Dakota?) becoming the next state of the USA. Or at least if we can get the stub into the present! SouthWriter 20:47, April 18, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, don't know why this one didn't occur to me months ago, lol. All the figures need updating a touch now too. But, all things considered, Fargo city atl is more or less the same as otl, population wise, so Moorhead's probably about the same too. Another 45k, maybe, population in the Dakotas and 35k in the city itself. Lordganon 09:33, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

Former USSR
Interesting that the surviving Soviet cities of any note are, so far anyway, in the European part not now controlled by the Siberian government. Are there any cities of note in Siberia itself? I ask because that ''superpower" seems to have retained its prestige, while the USA became a bunch of struggling "wannabes." At least North America retained some 100K + cities.  Are there any in Siberia as large as, say, Greenvile, RoP (120,000)? SouthWriter 13:16, July 27, 2011 (UTC)