Talk:Triple Entente vs. Central Powers (Map Game)

Previous Games

 * The First: /Archive 1/
 * The Second: /Archive 2/

Location

 * Capital City - +9
 * Major City - +7
 * Inside the Country - +5
 * In a country near yours - +3
 * In a country bordering the same sea as yours - +2
 * In a country on the other side of a continent or on another distant continent - -2

Population

 * Number of digits in population:
 * + 2 for larger population
 * + 10 for population over twice as large
 * +20 for population more than 10x as large
 * (Special circumstances MAY apply- ask a moderator).

Military

 * Extremely Strong Military (ie Top 5 in the world): +15
 * Strong Military: +10
 * Good Military: +8
 * Decent Military: +5
 * Average Military: +2
 * Poor Military: 0
 * Terrible Military: -2
 * No Standing Army: -5
 * A Mod will determine your Military score based on your turns of military development (specifictiy is rewarded) and plausibility.
 * Equipping a draft automatically multiplies your military score by 1.5 (unless you have no standing army, in which case you get no bonus, or you have a terrible military, in which you get +1)
 * In a coalition, this is averaged.

Economy

 * Extremely Strong Economy (ie Top 5): +20, after 1960s +25
 * Strong Services/Trading Economy (After 1960s only): +17
 * Strong Industrial Economy: +15
 * Strong Agricultural Economy: +10
 * Decent Economy: +5
 * Poor Economy: 0
 * Terrible Economy: -2
 * In a Recession: -5
 * In a Depression: -10
 * Defaulting on Debt: -20
 * A Mod will determine your Economy score based on your economic development (specificity is rewarded) and plausibility. 
 * Switching economies may not be possible for your nation.
 * ​In a coalition, this is averaged.

Motive

 * Economic (Gains land, resources, etc): + 3
 * Aiding Ally: + 3
 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: + 4
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 5
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike against a nation rapidly building military forces: + 5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral/Ideological/Religious Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 7
 * Attacking to enforce political hegemony: +7
 * Attacking to enforce political doctrine: +6
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 5
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10 (pre-nuclear era), + 15 (post-nuclear era, regardless of whether other nation is nuclear armed or not)
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 10
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 15
 * Each coalition gets exactly ONE- repeat, ONE- motive for the whole thing.
 * Additionally;
 * ​Democratic states recieve a +3 bonus (for coalitions, that's +3 per democratic nation)
 * Drafts recieve a -1 penalty per every digit of population.
 * A nation with a significantly stronger economy recieves a +5 bonus.
 * A nation with a significantly stronger military recieves a +3 bonus.

Technology Milestones

 * Machine Gun - +3
 * Airplanes - +6
 * Railroad Artillery - +6
 * Bombers - +9
 * Tanks - +12
 * Mechanical Rockets - +15

Fronts

 * Two fronts - -4
 * Three fronts - -8
 * Four Fronts - -16
 * ETC.

Allies in the Fight
Only one of this is applied, you will not get two bonuses even if your ally is doing both.
 * Every nation actually at war alongside you: +10
 * Every nation contributing soldiers or armed vehicles - +4
 * Every nation contributing recon and non-lethal aid - +2

Chance

 * The units digit of your edit count.
 * For NPC nations, the tens digit of the main PC.

Mod Adjudications

 * Each algorithm/war has special circumstances, which may warrant additional points or subtraction of points. Each mod may do so at their discretion, but there must be agreement regarding a specific addition/subtraction. Moreover, this power may not be abused so any mod with a vested interest in the outcome of the algorithm is barred from making adjudications on any such algorithm. Players may talk to an individual mod who made an adjudication at their discretion.
 * Mods: You must sign your name and give reasons for your adjudications. They can be removed by the other mods or adjusted as they see fit, given that there is consensus amongst the other mods. AP (talk) 20:10, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Location
Based on shortest possible sea route, taking into account blockades, etc.

One of: Any of:
 * Next to homeland: 5
 * Next to captured area or close to homeland: 4
 * Close to captured area or far from homeland: 3
 * Far from captured area or halfway around the world from homeland: 2
 * No where close to any territory: 1
 * -3: For every blockade needing to be crossed

Tactical
One of: Any of:
 * Defender: 5
 * Surprise attack: 5
 * Every sea battle won this turn: -2
 * Every sea battle lost this turn: -4

Strength
One of: One of:
 * Large Navy: 9
 * Medium Navy: 6
 * Small Navy: 3
 * Fully Modern: 6
 * Partially Modern: 3
 * Ancient: 0

Motive
See "Land Algorithm Motive"

Technology
Any of:
 * Radio: 3
 * Airplanes: 3
 * Modern Battleships: 9
 * Submarines: 6
 * Bombers: 6
 * Aircraft Carriers: 12

Secondary Nations
Any of:
 * Participation: 6
 * Some Millitary: 3
 * Supplies: 1

Discussion
For the sea algorithm, use your head. Mods have the last word on any naval maneuvers.

Result
The result is determined by the following:

W= Winner score, L= loser score

W-L/W *100 = M

In Cases where a territorial annexation is reasonable, then M/2 determines how much land is reasonable for the attacker to take.

If M is greater than 40, then it is possible for the winner to topple the opposing government and effectively vassalize it. This will allow some partial control over that nation.

If M is less than 40 but greater than 10, then the winner may extract some benefit out of the situation- a treaty of military subjugation (which could increase your military score in coming wars), a treaty of economic tribute (which would increase your economic score), or some geopolitical agreement. Whatever it is, it must be aligned towards the winner. Applies to NPC-PC wars, as well as to PC-PC wars, to some extent.

If M is less than 10 but greater than 5, the war is counted as a victory for the winner, to be used in future wars, but no other benefit can be extracted in NPC-PC wars.

If M is less than 5, the war is a stalemate.

The length of the war shall be determined by a moderator.

Technology Milestones
The Algorithms above will incorporate Technology Milestones as a way of determining the country's current techology level. Technology Milestones can be traded, stolen, sold, given, or even lost. Use them wisely. Once you obtain a milestone, you never lose it.

List of Milestones

 * Machine Gun - Research available from the start, already known by Europe, North America, South America, and Eastern Asia.
 * Radio - Reseach available from the start, already known by Europe, North America, and parts of East Asia.
 * Airplanes - Research available from the start, can be completed by 1903 at the earliest.
 * Modern Battleships - Research available from the start, can be completed by 1906 at the earliest.
 * Submarines - Research available from the start, already known by Europe.
 * Tanks - Research available from 1914, can be completed by 1916 at the earliest.
 * Bombers - Research available from 1911, can be completed by 1912 at the earliest.
 * Chemical Weapons - Research available from the start, already known by Europe
 * Railroad Artillery - Research available from 1917, can be completed by 1918 at the earliest.
 * Aircraft Carriers - Research available from 1918, can be completed by 1918 at the earliest.
 * Mechanical Rockets - Research available from 1936, can be completed by 1942 at the earliest.
 * Nuclear Weaponry - Research available from 1937, can be completed by 1945 at the earliest.

Research Speed
Different nations have different levels of research. This can change for a nation depending on how long they spend industrializing.

You are as good as your research is. Be logical and spend time doing limited research. Not everyone can be the best at everything, use your head. While there are no set research speeds, mods will be watching to control your research. If you are overextending, you will be notified and possibly given some sort of punitive action.

Let's get going!
Ok, firstly, I have the permission to work over the Algo, right?

22:12, October 16, 2014 (UTC)

AP's already working on it, as far as I say, go for it.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:27, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

im pissed guns T.T i wanted germany, With Blood and Iron (talk) 00:49, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

Take the French- let's duke it out.

01:36, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

For motive, though, seriously, can we use the AvA motive? It's way more thorough.

I'm bringing it over; change it back if you really want, but...

20:42, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Motive was way too convoluted. I changed it back, though I might incorporate some parts of the AvA algo.AP (talk) 08:16, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

The current one is a bit lacking, though...

22:30, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. Would you mind condensing the AvA motive to a simple size and then adding it to the current algo?AP (talk)

Sure. I'll ditch the modifiers, that should help. 22:49, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Bavaria
Would it be possible for me to play as Bavaria? Even though it was a member-state of the German Empire, it exercised so-called Sonderrechte (special rights). These included full peacetime control over the Bavarian Army, full control over the railways, beer factories, postal service, and the maintenance of a separate Bavarian consulate service overseas.

I guess this is directed mainly at Guns. Callumthered (talk) 22:14, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

I love that "beer factories" is one of the things noted.

Sure, go ahead.

22:48, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Just out of interest, how would Bavaria's power and influence algorithm work? Does it get the same score as Germany as a whole, or does it get its own score? And n the latter case, what would its sovereign status be? Callumthered (talk) 20:56, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Same score- part of the same nation. No worries. Just don't foment revolution xD

22:05, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

War algo
Could the mods please make an algo for my Serbian Invasion of Montenegro?. IrishPatriot (talk) 15:56, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, give me an hour. 22:06, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the moderators don't want you to have this war, considering you had an algorithm and it was deleted by AP. He also crossed out your declaration in your turn. Mscoree (talk) 22:12, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Nvm. Didn't really check the main page yet. If that's true, then no.

22:19, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

You can have it in 5-10 years.

When you do, put it in a section called "Serbia vs Montenegro" and leave it blank. I'll fill it in.

00:53, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind, as it was already crossed out, i am sorry for my implausibillities. IrishPatriot (talk) 06:54, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Turns
When do the turns change? In Eastern or GMT perhaps. I keep missing it.

01:12, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Turns change at 12:00 AM UTC, which is 8:00 PM EDT. Hong Kong has also been making requests to Great Britain to influence Guangzhou and for greater autonomy. The British Raj's indpendence movement is also growing. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 01:18, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Hong Kong is a city. And, if you read the rules, "influencing" is not a thing.

Scraw, post, lol. Germany is screwing with your naval supremacy.

01:27, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Germany (And Possibly Others)

 * Location: -2
 * Population: 8+10=18
 * Military: +15
 * Economy: +20
 * Motive: Economic +3, Stronger Econ and Army + 8= +11
 * Technology: +3 (Machine Guns)
 * Chance: +6
 * Total: 71

Venezuela

 * Location: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Military: +8
 * Economy: -20
 * Motive: Defending Heartland +9
 * Technology: +3 (Machine Guns)
 * Chance: +8
 * Total: 20

Result
71-20/71 = 51/71 = 71.8% Atm, total defeat for the Venezuelans. Still waiting on input from the Brits and Italians. Also the Americans. F***.

War will last two years (ie 4 turns) and result in the total fall of the Venezuelan government, followed by the imposition of a pro-German government and a harsh economic tribute.

21:37, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

I am revising this algorithm, specifically the chance values among other things. You have a vested interest in the outcome and therefore cannot complete the algorithm. Moreover, who made you a mod? Unless MP said so, we capped mods at 5 but you put your name there anyway...AP (talk) 21:50, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

I was under the impression YOU made me mod. Your comments on my talkpage- and MP's comments on chat- certainly seemed to indicate so. Similarly, since both you and MP gave me permission to edit the algorithm, I felt reasonably assured in thinking you leaving me off that list was a fluke.

I said, this is not completed. This is very basic, too, missing a lot of input from other nations. I agree- I have vested interest- never denied it.

22:02, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Well, as per a message left on my Talk Page, Guns has said that he is willing to relinquish Germany to me due to an unforseen event that will force him to leave the wiki for 2-3 weeks. I accept this challenge, and and pumped to see what the world has in store! 05:34, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

I just joined as a nation that has nothing do with this, could someone please quickly summarize why Germany is invading Venezuela? Kurt Cobain&#39;s Haircut (talk)

problem with editor
I cannot scroll down with Source editor and i cannot edit with the Visual editor, so could someone be kind and post my turn?

"Kingdom of Serbia: We improve our military (posted for IrishPatriot)". IrishPatriot (talk) 11:35, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

A friendly hello from Von!
Hello guys, I just want to say thank you for this timeline as its helped me think of some ideas for my own EWWI timeline which I plan to actually go back to and continue. I was actually thinking of starting my own map game based on my timeline but the start of this game in the same period makes it a bit awkward; especially since I can use this timeline for inspiration.

IF you ever want some inspiration and ideas for what to do with your nation in this timeline, then please have a look at my timeline for some ideas. Though I understand now these timelines are going in very different directions haha.

Of course I always want people to comment on my timeline, give me feedback, point out errors and generally just help it grow. So if you can or want then please do help me out with it!

Anyway best of luck and may the best nation win! VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:48, October 27, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
actually it is Serbia, Romania, and Russia vs Ottoman Empire and Germany, also called War of Ottoman Agression. [end unsigned comment]

Actually, Germany is not involved in this war whatsoever. Thank you. 00:31, October 30, 2014 (UTC)

When will this algo actually be done? The Technology is strong with this one (talk)

Hanseong Conference
Placeholder

Attendees

 * Hong Kong
 * Tongmenhiu
 * Australia
 * Siam
 * Dutch East Indies

The Conference
Hong Kong: Greetings, Pacific Nations, we have gathered here today in order to discuss the recent tensions in East Asia. These tensions are centered around the collapsing of the Qing Empire, with the focus being the city of Quangzhou. Hong Kong's hopes that we can come to a peaceful resolution of these tensions. Let us begin to explain the reasoning for our actions in Quangzhou: Hong Kong's intention was to stabalize the nearby city of Quangzhou in an effort for peace, but now we are on the brink of war. How can we stabalize the Qing Empire without going to war? That is the question for us to solve in this Conference.

Siam: The disintegration of the Qing recalls the imperialistic way in which European nations blackmailed and pressured Siam into giving up its territories in moments of weakness. We cannot stand by as a fellow Asian nation is carved up and its territories tossed like bones to the starving dogs that are imperialistic nations. Siam stands, above all, for the territorial integrity of Asian nations. It is the Qing today. It could be us tomorrow.

Hong Kong: The disintegration of the Qing recalls the spread of chaos in which nation state by nation state fell. This is why we sought to bring order to Guangzhou, because it is close, but its disorder is closer. We seek to bring an end to this disorder, but it has been condemed as imperalistic. Hong Kong stands, above all, for the peace, prosperity, and order of Asian Nations. But Qing is disordly. In this disorder, the Qing's own citizens have taken up arms against it. The most notable faction being the Tongmenhiu. The Qing Empire is coming to an end and a Civil War is bound to start after its collapse. So we have arrived to the question: What do we do in the event a nation state is in the process of collapsing?

Tongmenhiu: We believe that the Qing Empire is coming to an end, for the Manchu cannot oppress the Han forever. The point is that, the neighbouring states in Asia must support the only stable and notable faction, that is the Tongmenhiu. By supporting us, it would be much more possible for the Qing to be removed from power and a modern republic established; without the state having to fall into chaos and turmoil. Thus, the Tongmenhiu believe that Hong Kong must not try to acquire the cities of Guangzhou and such, for that'll encourage other imperialist powers to exploit Chinas vulnerable position in the period that takes place just after the inenvitable and impending collapse of the Qing Empire.

Dutch East Indies: The Qing empire will collapse in this decade or in the 1920s, thus to save the Qing Empire must make major reform that will be beneficial to each parties. We propose a constitutionnal monarchy with election, in other case, the monarchy will fall and civil war will result of instability.

Hong Kong: It seems that in the event of a nation collapsing, the strongest and most stable faction must take over the nation. In this situation, it is the Tongmenhiu. For this reason, we shall support the Tongmenhiu by giving them supplies, funding, and training, as well as a place of refuge during the Revolution.

Dutch East Indies: We agree with Hong Kong and in the case that the Qing refuse any compromise, we, with the support of the Netherlands, should support Hong Kong in their policy.

Hong Kong: With the agreement of the Dutch East Indies, we shall propose this as The Treaty that concludes this conflict.

Dutch East Indies: We agree and fully support this idea.

Hong Kong: Excellent, we shall propose the treaty now.

The Treaty of Hong Kong
When another Asian nation is on the brink of collapse, it is the responsibility of that said nation's neighbors to restore peace and order to that said nation. Restoring peace and order must not be in the form of forcefuly trying to influence a near by city of that said nation, (ie Hong Kong's attempt to influence the Qing Empire's city of Quangzhou,) but rather by supporting  the most peaceful, most popular, most strong, and most stable in the civil unrest  (ie Hong Kong's support for the Tongemenhiu.) This support shall entail the donation of supplies, encouragement training, and refuage. Thus in the current chaos in the Qing Empire, we conclude that the most reasonable coarse of action is to support the Tongmenhiu with supplies, enouragement, training, and refuage because they are the most peaceful, most popular, most strong, and most stable faction during the collapse of the Qing Empire.

Signatories:

Aye
Hong Kong: This is UglyTurtle, Signing off.  06:21, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Player Referendum
*Voting is open from now (5:00 PM PST) to 5:00 PM PST tomorrow, October 31st.*

The Question: Do you think we should have full-year turns rather than half-year turns?

Yes

 * Yeah, half turns are kinda slow.

No

 * 1) This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 00:47, October 31, 2014 (UTC) (I'm fine with half years for now, maybe we can go to full years after World War I)
 * 2) Kurt Cobain&#39;s Haircut (talk) 00:48, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 3) Callumthered (talk) 00:58, October 31, 2014 (UTC) I think that at least until the end of WWI, half-turns are required so as to have enough detail. 
 * 4) Rdv65 (talk) 01:00, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 5)  CNC1 Nod Emblem.png Aternix !? Atheism.png 05:13, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 6) The Technology is strong with this one (talk) Same reasons others gave
 * 7) Mscoree (talk) 10:26, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 8) &#34;SO SAYETH THE EAGLE&#34; - Fascist Eagle ಠ_ಠ (talk) 12:37, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 9) Daeseunglim (talk) 00:20, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Results
Yes- 82%

No- 18%

'''We are keeping the turn system at one-half year at a time, for now. AP (talk)'''

Resignation
I really regret having to do this, after having played as Germany for only a few years now, but I have to resign as the player of the Vaterland. I have enjoyed the past few days, and thank Guns for this opportunity. That being said, I will be away for a few days now and I will hardly be able to c/p for PM3.

I couldn't allow this game to go on without a strong Germany player, and I cannot be here to be that player in the coming days. For that reason, I am resigning.

I hope that either Guns returns to gain some more lebensraum, or that Callum decides to take over the entire nation. At the very least, I request that the mods vet the next player.

I may end up rejoining at a later date as a smaller nation with little power, but we shall see for now. Thank You, 05:30, October 31, 2014 (UTC)