Talk:Triple Entente vs. Central Powers (Map Game)

Previous Games

 * The First: /Archive 1/
 * The Second: /Archive 2/

Location

 * Capital City - +9
 * Major City - +7
 * Inside the Country - +5
 * In a country near yours - +3
 * In a country bordering the same sea as yours - +2
 * In a country on the other side of a continent or on another distant continent - -2

Population

 * Number of digits in population:
 * + 2 for larger population
 * + 10 for population over twice as large
 * +20 for population more than 10x as large
 * (Special circumstances MAY apply- ask a moderator).

Military

 * Extremely Strong Military (ie Top 5 in the world): +15
 * Strong Military: +10
 * Good Military: +8
 * Decent Military: +5
 * Average Military: +2
 * Poor Military: 0
 * Terrible Military: -2
 * No Standing Army: -5
 * A Mod will determine your Military score based on your turns of military development (specifictiy is rewarded) and plausibility.
 * Equipping a draft automatically multiplies your military score by 1.5 (unless you have no standing army, in which case you get no bonus, or you have a terrible military, in which you get +1)
 * In a coalition, this is averaged.

Economy

 * Extremely Strong Economy (ie Top 5): +20, after 1960s +25
 * Strong Services/Trading Economy (After 1960s only): +17
 * Strong Industrial Economy: +15
 * Strong Agricultural Economy: +10
 * Decent Economy: +5
 * Poor Economy: 0
 * Terrible Economy: -2
 * In a Recession: -5
 * In a Depression: -10
 * Defaulting on Debt: -20
 * A Mod will determine your Economy score based on your economic development (specificity is rewarded) and plausibility. 
 * Switching economies may not be possible for your nation.
 * ​In a coalition, this is averaged.

Motive

 * Economic (Gains land, resources, etc): + 3
 * Aiding Ally: + 3
 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: + 4
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 5
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike against a nation rapidly building military forces: + 5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral/Ideological/Religious Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 7
 * Attacking to enforce political hegemony: +7
 * Attacking to enforce political doctrine: +6
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 5
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10 (pre-nuclear era), + 15 (post-nuclear era, regardless of whether other nation is nuclear armed or not)
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 10
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 15
 * Each coalition gets exactly ONE- repeat, ONE- motive for the whole thing.
 * Additionally;
 * ​Democratic states recieve a +3 bonus (for coalitions, that's +3 per democratic nation)
 * Drafts recieve a -1 penalty per every digit of population.
 * A nation with a significantly stronger economy recieves a +5 bonus.
 * A nation with a significantly stronger military recieves a +3 bonus.

Technology Milestones

 * Machine Gun - +3
 * Airplanes - +6
 * Railroad Artillery - +6
 * Bombers - +9
 * Tanks - +12
 * Mechanical Rockets - +15

Fronts

 * Two fronts - -4
 * Three fronts - -8
 * Four Fronts - -16
 * ETC.

Allies in the Fight
Only one of this is applied, you will not get two bonuses even if your ally is doing both.
 * Every nation contributing soldiers or armed vehicles - +4
 * Every nation contributing recon and non-lethal aid - +2

'''I removed the "actually at war" thing, since it is exactly the same as the +4 value. Not to mention that it's ridiculous. Sorry I couldn't catch this earlier.AP (talk) 01:31, November 21, 2014 (UTC)'''

Chance

 * The units digit of your edit count.
 * For NPC nations, the tens digit of the main PC.

Mod Adjudications

 * Each algorithm/war has special circumstances, which may warrant additional points or subtraction of points. Each mod may do so at their discretion, but there must be agreement regarding a specific addition/subtraction. Moreover, this power may not be abused so any mod with a vested interest in the outcome of the algorithm is barred from making adjudications on any such algorithm. Players may talk to an individual mod who made an adjudication at their discretion.
 * Mods: You must sign your name and give reasons for your adjudications. They can be removed by the other mods or adjusted as they see fit, given that there is consensus amongst the other mods. AP (talk) 20:10, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Location
Based on shortest possible sea route, taking into account blockades, etc.

One of: Any of:
 * Next to homeland: 5
 * Next to captured area or close to homeland: 4
 * Close to captured area or far from homeland: 3
 * Far from captured area or halfway around the world from homeland: 2
 * No where close to any territory: 1
 * -3: For every blockade needing to be crossed

Tactical
One of: Any of:
 * Defender: 5
 * Surprise attack: 5
 * Every sea battle won this turn: -2
 * Every sea battle lost this turn: -4

Strength
One of: One of:
 * Large Navy: 9
 * Medium Navy: 6
 * Small Navy: 3
 * Fully Modern: 6
 * Partially Modern: 3
 * Ancient: 0

Motive
See "Land Algorithm Motive"

Technology
Any of:
 * Radio: 3
 * Airplanes: 3
 * Modern Battleships: 9
 * Submarines: 6
 * Bombers: 6
 * Aircraft Carriers: 12

Secondary Nations
Any of:
 * Participation: 6
 * Some Millitary: 3
 * Supplies: 1

Discussion
For the sea algorithm, use your head. Mods have the last word on any naval maneuvers.

Result
The result is determined by the following:

W= Winner score, L= loser score

W-L/W *100 = M

In Cases where a territorial annexation is reasonable, then M/2 determines how much land is reasonable for the attacker to take.

If M is greater than 40, then it is possible for the winner to topple the opposing government and effectively vassalize it. This will allow some partial control over that nation.

If M is less than 40 but greater than 10, then the winner may extract some benefit out of the situation- a treaty of military subjugation (which could increase your military score in coming wars), a treaty of economic tribute (which would increase your economic score), or some geopolitical agreement. Whatever it is, it must be aligned towards the winner. Applies to NPC-PC wars, as well as to PC-PC wars, to some extent.

If M is less than 10 but greater than 5, the war is counted as a victory for the winner, to be used in future wars, but no other benefit can be extracted in NPC-PC wars.

If M is less than 5, the war is a stalemate.

The length of the war shall be determined by a moderator.

Technology Milestones
The Algorithms above will incorporate Technology Milestones as a way of determining the country's current techology level. Technology Milestones can be traded, stolen, sold, given, or even lost. Use them wisely. Once you obtain a milestone, you never lose it.

List of Milestones

 * Machine Gun - Research available from the start, already known by Europe, North America, South America, and Eastern Asia.
 * Radio - Reseach available from the start, already known by Europe, North America, and parts of East Asia.
 * Airplanes - Research available from the start, can be completed by 1903 at the earliest.
 * Modern Battleships - Research available from the start, can be completed by 1906 at the earliest.
 * Submarines - Research available from the start, already known by Europe.
 * Tanks - Research available from 1914, can be completed by 1916 at the earliest.
 * Bombers - Research available from 1911, can be completed by 1912 at the earliest.
 * Chemical Weapons - Research available from the start, already known by Europe
 * Railroad Artillery - Research available from 1917, can be completed by 1918 at the earliest.
 * Aircraft Carriers - Research available from 1918, can be completed by 1918 at the earliest.
 * Mechanical Rockets - Research available from 1936, can be completed by 1942 at the earliest.
 * Nuclear Weaponry - Research available from 1937, can be completed by 1945 at the earliest.

Research Speed
Different nations have different levels of research. This can change for a nation depending on how long they spend industrializing.

You are as good as your research is. Be logical and spend time doing limited research. Not everyone can be the best at everything, use your head. While there are no set research speeds, mods will be watching to control your research. If you are overextending, you will be notified and possibly given some sort of punitive action.

Let's get going!
Ok, firstly, I have the permission to work over the Algo, right?

22:12, October 16, 2014 (UTC)

AP's already working on it, as far as I say, go for it.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:27, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

im pissed guns T.T i wanted germany, With Blood and Iron (talk) 00:49, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

Take the French- let's duke it out.

01:36, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

For motive, though, seriously, can we use the AvA motive? It's way more thorough.

I'm bringing it over; change it back if you really want, but...

20:42, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Motive was way too convoluted. I changed it back, though I might incorporate some parts of the AvA algo.AP (talk) 08:16, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

The current one is a bit lacking, though...

22:30, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. Would you mind condensing the AvA motive to a simple size and then adding it to the current algo?AP (talk)

Sure. I'll ditch the modifiers, that should help. 22:49, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Bavaria
Would it be possible for me to play as Bavaria? Even though it was a member-state of the German Empire, it exercised so-called Sonderrechte (special rights). These included full peacetime control over the Bavarian Army, full control over the railways, beer factories, postal service, and the maintenance of a separate Bavarian consulate service overseas.

I guess this is directed mainly at Guns. Callumthered (talk) 22:14, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

I love that "beer factories" is one of the things noted.

Sure, go ahead.

22:48, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Just out of interest, how would Bavaria's power and influence algorithm work? Does it get the same score as Germany as a whole, or does it get its own score? And n the latter case, what would its sovereign status be? Callumthered (talk) 20:56, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Same score- part of the same nation. No worries. Just don't foment revolution xD

22:05, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

War algo
Could the mods please make an algo for my Serbian Invasion of Montenegro?. IrishPatriot (talk) 15:56, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, give me an hour. 22:06, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the moderators don't want you to have this war, considering you had an algorithm and it was deleted by AP. He also crossed out your declaration in your turn. Mscoree (talk) 22:12, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Nvm. Didn't really check the main page yet. If that's true, then no.

22:19, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

You can have it in 5-10 years.

When you do, put it in a section called "Serbia vs Montenegro" and leave it blank. I'll fill it in.

00:53, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind, as it was already crossed out, i am sorry for my implausibillities. IrishPatriot (talk) 06:54, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Turns
When do the turns change? In Eastern or GMT perhaps. I keep missing it.

01:12, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Turns change at 12:00 AM UTC, which is 8:00 PM EDT. Hong Kong has also been making requests to Great Britain to influence Guangzhou and for greater autonomy. The British Raj's indpendence movement is also growing. This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 01:18, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Hong Kong is a city. And, if you read the rules, "influencing" is not a thing.

Scraw, post, lol. Germany is screwing with your naval supremacy.

01:27, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Germany (And Possibly Others)

 * Location: -2
 * Population: 8+10=18
 * Military: +15
 * Economy: +20
 * Motive: Economic +3, Stronger Econ and Army + 8= +11
 * Technology: +3 (Machine Guns)
 * Chance: +6
 * Total: 71

Venezuela

 * Location: +5
 * Population: 7
 * Military: +8
 * Economy: -20
 * Motive: Defending Heartland +9
 * Technology: +3 (Machine Guns)
 * Chance: +8
 * Total: 20

Result
71-20/71 = 51/71 = 71.8% Atm, total defeat for the Venezuelans. Still waiting on input from the Brits and Italians. Also the Americans. F***.

War will last two years (ie 4 turns) and result in the total fall of the Venezuelan government, followed by the imposition of a pro-German government and a harsh economic tribute.

21:37, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

I am revising this algorithm, specifically the chance values among other things. You have a vested interest in the outcome and therefore cannot complete the algorithm. Moreover, who made you a mod? Unless MP said so, we capped mods at 5 but you put your name there anyway...AP (talk) 21:50, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

I was under the impression YOU made me mod. Your comments on my talkpage- and MP's comments on chat- certainly seemed to indicate so. Similarly, since both you and MP gave me permission to edit the algorithm, I felt reasonably assured in thinking you leaving me off that list was a fluke.

I said, this is not completed. This is very basic, too, missing a lot of input from other nations. I agree- I have vested interest- never denied it.

22:02, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Well, as per a message left on my Talk Page, Guns has said that he is willing to relinquish Germany to me due to an unforseen event that will force him to leave the wiki for 2-3 weeks. I accept this challenge, and and pumped to see what the world has in store! 05:34, October 24, 2014 (UTC)

I just joined as a nation that has nothing do with this, could someone please quickly summarize why Germany is invading Venezuela? Kurt Cobain&#39;s Haircut (talk)

problem with editor
I cannot scroll down with Source editor and i cannot edit with the Visual editor, so could someone be kind and post my turn?

"Kingdom of Serbia: We improve our military (posted for IrishPatriot)". IrishPatriot (talk) 11:35, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

A friendly hello from Von!
Hello guys, I just want to say thank you for this timeline as its helped me think of some ideas for my own EWWI timeline which I plan to actually go back to and continue. I was actually thinking of starting my own map game based on my timeline but the start of this game in the same period makes it a bit awkward; especially since I can use this timeline for inspiration.

IF you ever want some inspiration and ideas for what to do with your nation in this timeline, then please have a look at my timeline for some ideas. Though I understand now these timelines are going in very different directions haha.

Of course I always want people to comment on my timeline, give me feedback, point out errors and generally just help it grow. So if you can or want then please do help me out with it!

Anyway best of luck and may the best nation win! VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:48, October 27, 2014 (UTC)

Serbia, Romania, and Russia

 * Location: 2
 * Population: 10
 * Military: +8
 * Economy: +5
 * Motive: 3
 * Technology: +3 (Machine Guns)
 * Chance: +6
 * Allies: +30
 * Total: 97

The Ottomans

 * Location: 9
 * Population: 0
 * Military: +10 (Ottomans/Germans)
 * Economy: 5
 * Motive: +9
 * Technology: +3 (Machine Guns)
 * Chance: +6
 * Allies: +10
 * Total: 52

Results
97-52/97=0.46%

Discussion
actually it is Serbia, Romania, and Russia vs Ottoman Empire and Germany, also called War of Ottoman Agression. [end unsigned comment]

Actually, Germany is not involved in this war whatsoever. Thank you. 00:31, October 30, 2014 (UTC)

When will this algo actually be done? The Technology is strong with this one (talk)

Algo is all wrong, I fixed it up a bit. I might want other mods to check up on it again, to make sure. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 23:46, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Attendees

 * Hong Kong
 * Tongmenhiu
 * Australia
 * Siam
 * Dutch East Indies

The Conference
Hong Kong: Greetings, Pacific Nations, we have gathered here today in order to discuss the recent tensions in East Asia. These tensions are centered around the collapsing of the Qing Empire, with the focus being the city of Quangzhou. Hong Kong's hopes that we can come to a peaceful resolution of these tensions. Let us begin to explain the reasoning for our actions in Quangzhou: Hong Kong's intention was to stabalize the nearby city of Quangzhou in an effort for peace, but now we are on the brink of war. How can we stabalize the Qing Empire without going to war? That is the question for us to solve in this Conference.

Siam: The disintegration of the Qing recalls the imperialistic way in which European nations blackmailed and pressured Siam into giving up its territories in moments of weakness. We cannot stand by as a fellow Asian nation is carved up and its territories tossed like bones to the starving dogs that are imperialistic nations. Siam stands, above all, for the territorial integrity of Asian nations. It is the Qing today. It could be us tomorrow.

Hong Kong: The disintegration of the Qing recalls the spread of chaos in which nation state by nation state fell. This is why we sought to bring order to Guangzhou, because it is close, but its disorder is closer. We seek to bring an end to this disorder, but it has been condemed as imperalistic. Hong Kong stands, above all, for the peace, prosperity, and order of Asian Nations. But Qing is disordly. In this disorder, the Qing's own citizens have taken up arms against it. The most notable faction being the Tongmenhiu. The Qing Empire is coming to an end and a Civil War is bound to start after its collapse. So we have arrived to the question: What do we do in the event a nation state is in the process of collapsing?

Tongmenhiu: We believe that the Qing Empire is coming to an end, for the Manchu cannot oppress the Han forever. The point is that, the neighbouring states in Asia must support the only stable and notable faction, that is the Tongmenhiu. By supporting us, it would be much more possible for the Qing to be removed from power and a modern republic established; without the state having to fall into chaos and turmoil. Thus, the Tongmenhiu believe that Hong Kong must not try to acquire the cities of Guangzhou and such, for that'll encourage other imperialist powers to exploit Chinas vulnerable position in the period that takes place just after the inenvitable and impending collapse of the Qing Empire.

Dutch East Indies: The Qing empire will collapse in this decade or in the 1920s, thus to save the Qing Empire must make major reform that will be beneficial to each parties. We propose a constitutionnal monarchy with election, in other case, the monarchy will fall and civil war will result of instability.

Hong Kong: It seems that in the event of a nation collapsing, the strongest and most stable faction must take over the nation. In this situation, it is the Tongmenhiu. For this reason, we shall support the Tongmenhiu by giving them supplies, funding, and training, as well as a place of refuge during the Revolution.

Dutch East Indies: We agree with Hong Kong and in the case that the Qing refuse any compromise, we, with the support of the Netherlands, should support Hong Kong in their policy.

Hong Kong: With the agreement of the Dutch East Indies, we shall propose this as The Treaty that concludes this conflict.

Dutch East Indies: We agree and fully support this idea.

Hong Kong: Excellent, we shall propose the treaty now.

The Treaty of Hong Kong
When another Asian nation is on the brink of collapse, it is the responsibility of that said nation's neighbors to restore peace and order to that said nation. Restoring peace and order must not be in the form of forcefuly trying to influence a near by city of that said nation, (ie Hong Kong's attempt to influence the Qing Empire's city of Quangzhou,) but rather by supporting  the most peaceful, most popular, most strong, and most stable in the civil unrest  (ie Hong Kong's support for the Tongemenhiu.) This support shall entail the donation of supplies, encouragement training, and refuage. Thus in the current chaos in the Qing Empire, we conclude that the most reasonable coarse of action is to support the Tongmenhiu with supplies, enouragement, training, and refuage because they are the most peaceful, most popular, most strong, and most stable faction during the collapse of the Qing Empire.

Signatories:

Aye
Hong Kong: This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 06:21, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Tongmenhiu: RexImperio (talk) 17:08, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Dutch East Indies: Rdv65 (talk) 23:29, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Siam: Shikata ga nai! 02:56, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Player Referendum
*Voting is open from now (5:00 PM PST) to 5:00 PM PST tomorrow, October 31st.*

The Question: Do you think we should have full-year turns rather than half-year turns?

Yes

 * Yeah, half turns are kinda slow.

No

 * 1) This is UglyTurtle, Signing off. 00:47, October 31, 2014 (UTC) (I'm fine with half years for now, maybe we can go to full years after World War I)
 * 2) Kurt Cobain&#39;s Haircut (talk) 00:48, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 3) Callumthered (talk) 00:58, October 31, 2014 (UTC) I think that at least until the end of WWI, half-turns are required so as to have enough detail. 
 * 4) Rdv65 (talk) 01:00, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 5)  CNC1 Nod Emblem.png Aternix !? Atheism.png 05:13, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 6) The Technology is strong with this one (talk) Same reasons others gave
 * 7) Mscoree (talk) 10:26, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 8) &#34;SO SAYETH THE EAGLE&#34; - Fascist Eagle ಠ_ಠ (talk) 12:37, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * 9) Daeseunglim (talk) 00:20, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Results
No- 82%

Yes- 18%

'''We are keeping the turn system at one-half year at a time, for now. AP (talk)'''

'''Why are the Yes votes on 82% when only two players voted Yes to full years?. IrishPatriot (talk) 17:13, November 1, 2014 (UTC)'''

I think he just had them reversed. Mscoree (talk) 13:19, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Resignation
I really regret having to do this, after having played as Germany for only a few years now, but I have to resign as the player of the Vaterland. I have enjoyed the past few days, and thank Guns for this opportunity. That being said, I will be away for a few days now and I will hardly be able to c/p for PM3.

I couldn't allow this game to go on without a strong Germany player, and I cannot be here to be that player in the coming days. For that reason, I am resigning.

I hope that either Guns returns to gain some more lebensraum, or that Callum decides to take over the entire nation. At the very least, I request that the mods vet the next player.

I may end up rejoining at a later date as a smaller nation with little power, but we shall see for now. Thank You, 05:30, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Attenders
Please sign
 * Korea (host)
 * Denmark
 * Netherlands

Conference
Korea: Thank you for joining us in Hanseong for the 1908 conference. We shall discuss the Security of the region of Asia, and Korean Modernization. For now, we wait for the following members : USA ,France ,Denmark , Great Britain, Germany, Romania, The Netherlands. to sign up.

Denmark: The delegation from Denmark arrives at the Hanseong Conference, and asks what the purpose of this conference is. Mscoree (talk) 20:01, November 4, 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, what is this about?

Germany: The German envoy and his entourage arrives, also keen to find out what the precise purpose of the conference is.

Korea: We will discuss the security and stability of the civilized people of East Asia and international aid and success of the Korea Modernization Project.

Tongmenhiu

 * Location: +5 [Within the same nation]


 * Population: +20 [10x as many people. Well basically, the territory controlled]


 * Military: +2 [Average Military]


 * Economy: +5 [Decent Economy]


 * Motive: +7 [Enforce Political Hegemony]


 * Technology: +3 [Machine Guns]


 * Chance: idk someone do dis for me


 * Allies: +6 [Siam and Hong Kong]


 * Total: 48

Qing Empire

 * Location: +5 [Within the same nation]


 * Population: 0


 * Military: +5 [Decent Military]


 * Economy: 0 [Decent Economy][In A Recession]


 * Motive: +9 [Possible Fatal Attack]


 * Technology: +3 [Machine Guns]
 * Fronts: -8 [3 Fronts][Mongolia, Tibet, Southern China]


 * Chance: idk someone do dis for me


 * Allies: 0


 * Total: 14

Results
48-14/48 = 0.70833%

Discussion
Algo probably done wrong.. I don't know .-. RexImperio (talk) 07:50, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

WWI
In the rules section of the page, it says a random assassination will happen in the mid 1910s to potentially start WWI. Is that actually going to happen? If yes, can we start drafting a list of potential targets and assassins?

23:48, November 6, 2014 (UTC)

If World War One doesn't start soon the game might die. Fritzmet (talk) 14:14, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

The Restoration of the Blue Cross
Maybe a new name?...

Greek and Italian Force

 * Location: 3 (In a Country Near Yours)
 * Population: 2 (Larger Population)
 * Military: 2 (Average) + 8 (Good) = 5
 * Economy: 5 (Decent) + 15 (Strong Industrial) = 10
 * Motive: 22 (Economic, Similar Culture, Oppressed Kinsmen, Hegemony) + 13 (Economic, Aiding Ally, Hegemony) = 18
 * Technology: 3 + 6 (Machine Guns & Airplanes) = 12
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies: 10 (Italy) + 4 (United Kingdom) = 14
 * Chance: 3
 *  Total: 67 

Ottoman Empire

 * ​Location: 9 (Capital City)
 * Population: 0
 * Military: 0 (Poor; Civil Strife?)
 * Economy: 0 (Poor; Civil Strife?)
 * Motive: 9 (Not Fatal Attack, but it will cripple nation)
 * Technology: 3 (Machine Guns)
 * Fronts: -4 (Two Fronts)
 * Allies: 0 (None?...)
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 17

​ Results
67-17= 50, 50/67 = 0.7462 x 100 = 74.52

74.52/2 = 37.26% of Land is Taken

'''Greek side wins the War! It would be plausible to take 37% of Turkish Land, and also of War Repairations.'''

'''Although I am a mod, can another mod allow the reward of 42.82% of Ottoman Land. This would include all of Libya, Greek lands in the west, and a tiny bit of Asia Minor.'''



'''I approve this algorithm as a mod, but I know I probably have some bias towards Greece. If any mod thinks there should be changes, discuss it below!'''

  NicDonalds, Beginning Editor  Talk  16:20, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

Even after WWI, this much land wasn't taken from Turks. Basically, Its implausible to acquire all of this land from the Ottoman including the Ottoman Capital RexImperio (talk) 18:16, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

I would argue that nearly the same amount of was taken... The Empire is collapsing and there are still greeks living in many provinces of the empire. In OTL, the Balkan Wars didn't give up all this land, but also the war was not backed by a foreign power. OTL Italy took Libya, and although Libya is a lot of pixels, it is still mainly desert. In the TEvsCPTL, Greece has been receivng subsdies from three world powers, making them slightly stronger than OTL. Against the forces of Greece and Italy, with the support of the UK, I think the Ottoman Empire would easily crumble as right now it is experiencing revolutions and revolts. Not to mention revolting Greeks in the these regions would assist the effort, and be happy for liberation. NicDonalds, Beginning Editor Talk  19:35, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

I think Greece can expand as far as East Thrace. However, Istanbul and the surrounding area will remain under Ottoman control. Instead, feel free to take the Ottoman islands in the Aegean Sea.

00:23, November 10, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I am fine with that. Is it fine if the war lasts 1.5 or 2 years? What's your estimation. NicDonalds, Beginning Editor Talk  04:49, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Guns. Ottoman would never give up their own Capital. RexImperio (talk) 03:47, November 10, 2014 (UTC)

'''Is this a better one? Greece gets Macedonia and some Greek Lands and the cities of Benghazi, Bayda, and Tobruk (Greek-Italian Agreement). Italy gets the rest of Libya. NicDonalds, Beginning Editor Talk  04:49, November 11, 2014 (UTC)'''

Can i say why don't we just use OTL map 

Please sign your posts. Anyways, probably because although the Ottoman are weak; they are not so weak that they'll give up mainland Anatolia itself. Besides, simply winning a war does not mean you can put forward whatever you want and take it from the other nation. What I mean is that there are certain limits. For example, Germany could've been divided into numerous smaller states at the end of WWI...

What I mean is that the Ottoman have not been completely defeated, they still control much of Mesopotamia and Arabia, and thus they'll reject these demands. If the Ottomans were to accept those demands, then the Turkish people will rise and that will create problems for both Greece and Turkey.

I personally think that the map whhich shows Greece getting Macedonia, Beghazi, Bayda, Tobruk and Italy getting Tripoli would be acceptable RexImperio (talk) 03:27, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

The "Socialist Union"
Unless this thing was approved by Russia's player, then all of its posts will be retconned.AP (talk) 23:17, November 10, 2014 (UTC)

What? Why? I'm joining as basically the revolution that DID happen OTL and as the socialist representatives in Russia. If anything, Russia should be the one that doesn't aprove of my joining. I see no reason for my posts to be retconned. Aternix !?  00:56, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

You can't just play as a paralegal nation that doesn't even exist. It's like playing as the Nazis before they became the government of Germany. Or playing as the KKK in the United States. Or playing as the IRA. That's not how it works.

01:36, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Based on this, I'm assuming that Russia has not given you consent to post as this "Socialist Union." Therefore, you are banned from playing as this entity. Pick a real nation. AP (talk) 02:10, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

That makes no sense, that's like saying that I can't play as the commies before they got power, becuase they arn't in power yet. That being said, there is no way for them to have control of Russia in your game. Furthermore, I see no connection to groups such as the Nazi's or the KKK as they were parties and religious groups. Whereas I am a revolution based group. I still don't understand why I shouldn't be able to play and why you keep asking if I have permission from Russia to play as a revolution in his nation. And finally, I have been playing for many turns now and I have not been pulled up before so why is it only now that you are stopping me from playing? Aternix !?  04:58, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe if Russia was in Civil War, it would've made sense. But right now, you're only a faction. You don't control any territory and nobody recognizes the Soviet Union whatever as the sole representative of Russia. RexImperio (talk) 06:21, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, that makes more sense. Though I was trying to create the civil war, I understand where you are coming from. Aternix !?  06:45, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I don't think the Russia player would appreciate you doing that. If this went ahead, you'd eventuall topple his government and then he'd have no nation. The reason this didn't happen earlier was because I assumed you were the Russia player posting as this entity. In any case, all Socialist Union actions are officially retconnned and deemed void. Pick a nation this time. Sorry I couldnt deal with this from the beginning.AP (talk) 07:25, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, I will pick another nation. In the future, if there is a civil war, would I be able to join as the non-player side? Aternix !?  08:18, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

No. That creates too much conflict. Mod intervention is enough during a country's civil war. AP (talk) 08:49, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Ok. Aternix !?  09:39, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Discussions Re: 1912 Assasination
 The Event:  '''George V of the United Kingdom is assassinated during the yearly address to Parliament by three disgruntled British MPs hired by the German government. The Prime Minister is shot dead on the floor of the Commons, with members of the cabinet being wounded as well. This was all done in an attempt to throw Britain into chaos in order for Germany to establish naval supremacy.'''

So basically, my opposition to the event as it stands are so: As I am that Guy said, how could Germany plausibly have "hired" three British MPs to assasinate the King, the Prime Minister, and the cabinet? And, as he also pointed out, why would Germany have done this apropos of nothing? Anyway, the plan itself is so massively flawed --the Royal Navy would have maintained its supremecy through the month or two of slight political chaos caused by the assasinations-- that even Kaiser William II wouldn't have ordered it. If a rogue, unhinged parliamentarian did the shooting, and it was later revealed that he, I dunno, was cousin of the Prince of Waldeck or brother /close friend of a German admiral or something; then it would make more sense. Public outcry would demand an apology/explanation from the Kaiser, which would not be given, tensions would build and the war would start. But having Germany embark on some harebrained scheme like this verges on the nonsensical, in my opinion. Callumthered (talk) 08:16, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Why don't we add this back with Callum's suggestions added? Mscoree (talk) 22:25, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'll revise the event. AP (talk) 23:15, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

I also think it should be the king, but instead a different member of the Royal Family. George V is a cousin Wilhelm II, so it seems kinda bullshit.

00:41, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Military equipment export?
I play Chile as a game and I wanted to purchase military equipment from other countries. Appreantly, the mod crossed it out for no reason and said that Chile was a democratic nation and its rules and policies. Why am I not allowed to establish diplomatic relations with country over military goods? How am I supposed to trade with other nations?

You are allowed to establish diplomatic relations. The point of that was to 1) remind you that Chile is different in this game than OTL Chile,  2) You already had diplomatic relations with Germany and 3) You are a member of the Confederation of Latin America (CoLA) and are therefore subject to its rules and policies. As of 1910, we are not allied with any major European powers and therefore reject any military aid from foreign powers. Chile, as well as the other 5 nations that make up the CoLA have stable, democratic governments that favor the CoLA because it strengthens the Latin American position on the global stage. That is why most of your post was crossed out. Play with these things in mind and act plausibly to avoid having any problems in the future.AP (talk) 02:28, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Russo-Afghan War
Can one of TEvsCP mods make an algo about Russo-Afghan War?

I'd say make it yourself. It's best to make an algo before a war begins... -Nic

I cant make a algo for Russo-Afghan War, its very hard for me to make algo. Can mod fix it thanks!

Since you all aren't going to help him, how about I make an algo for him? RexImperio (talk) 06:05, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

Dutch

 * Location: 3 (In a Country Near Yours)
 * Population: 0
 * Military:  Decent +5
 * Economy: 5 (Decent)
 * Motive: 10 (Economic, Hegemony) 
 * Technology: 3 (Machine Guns)
 * Fronts: -4 (Two Fronts)
 * Allies: +10 Germany
 * Chance: 3
 *  Total: 35 

British and Siamese

 * ​Location: 5 (Inside)
 * Population: +10 (Twice as large)
 * Military: +15 and +5 = +10 avg. x 1.5 = 15
 * Economy: 5 (Decent) + 15 (Strong Industrial) = 10
 * Motive: 7+5+3= 15
 * Technology: 3 (Machine Guns) and 6 (Machine Guns, Tanks & Airplanes) = 8
 * Fronts: -4 (Two Fronts)
 * Allies: +10 (Siam)
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 71

Result
Looks like this is pretty clear-cut.

If the war in Europe results in a defeat for the Allies though, could the CP not demand all the land back, and more?Callumthered (talk) 19:37, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

I'd imagine so. I doubt the British would be in any position to negotiate if they were to be hypothetically destroyed in Europe, for example. Mscoree (talk) 20:38, November 20, 2014 (UTC) Yeah, if they were in a situation to dictate a peace, they could definitely get the land back. Otherwise, it would probably have to be in exchange for reduced Allied cessions in Europe. Shikata ga nai! 23:01, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

The Great European War
'''*there's only one algorithm for the war in Europe. '''

Coalition

 * Location: 3
 * Population: 0
 * Military: 8
 * Economy: +12 (your economy is not "strong," therefore an adjudication was made)
 * Motive: 7
 * Technology: 6
 * Chance: 5
 * Allies: 16
 * Total: 57

Russia

 * Location: +5
 * Population: +20
 * Military: +10
 * Economy: +10
 * Motive: +5
 * Technology: +6
 * Chance: 4
 * Allies: +12
 * Fronts: -4
 * Total: 68

Results
Russia fends off the attacks from the Scandinavian nations (and their German supporters) and makes headway into Sweden and Norway.

Note: If you have any  LOGICAL  (aka NOT biased) suggestions for revision, leave them below.


 * Russia's population should be +2, not +20 (72 million versus 180 million). That was probably a typo.
 * I don't think Russia has any aircraft or railroad artillery pieces. For one thing they never spent any time researching and developing them, and I don't think it's really fair then to just declare they have them (unless you count how 300 Russian bombers attacked Afghanistan, according to his turn).
 * Russia technically has three fronts; Afghanistan, Balkans/Eastern Europe, Finland.
 * Is it really fair to change the rules mid war?

Anyway those are some things I noticed. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 03:25, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

As a neutral player I came along the many algorithms being posted, and I wanted to say something. After being edit conflicted, I can say that I agree changing the rules like that is quite unfair, like moving goalposts.

The one problem I have with this game's algorithm is that it isn't really realistic, and has little to no actual factors in it. For one thing, population completely decides the war. I can point to many examples as to why this isn't really accurate, for one thing you have to account for quality too, which this algorithm system does not. I believe this war is modeled after the Winter War, which brings up many points. For one, how is Russia pushing into Norway and Sweden when they have no troops there? How do they have the supply lines and equipment to push through the arctic, and do something that the Soviet Union couldn't even do? Despite the fact that Russia had no troops in the area, they are apparently pushing onward, and even after being outnumbered they prevail.

In conclusion, I can't say this algorithm takes into account strategy or any other important aspects of war. Between two industrialized nations it is essentially the person with the higher population wins. Fritzmet (talk) 03:31, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

There are only two fronts, they pulled out of Afghanistan.

Russia's population is in fact 10x larger than yours, I didn't write that in you did. That value is according to the leader, which is Denmark. The fact that the algorithm wasn't looked over before the war is, in fact, mod mistake but at least it's fixed now. There are minor fixes to the algo needed, but overall it's a defeat anyway. - Someone

But why would our population be that if together we have a population of over 70 million? How do you decide who the leader is, if we're all together? It seems kind of odd that you are picking and choosing these things, including in some cases, the rules. Mscoree (talk) 11:33, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Let me get this straight, in the Eastern Front with Russia versus Germany, Germany wins. In the Winter War, with Russia and Germany AND several other nations, in a location that was historically much harder for the Russians (never mind the algorithm doesn't factor that in at all), the Russians win? That makes no sense at all. Furthermore it is clear the only thing making Russia win is the fact that population stacks an algorithm for some reason, and the fact that you are literally changing the rules so they win...Tr0llis (talk) 11:37, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Can't we just hurry up with the Western and Eastern front algo's. And the Balkan front Tech (talk)

Discussion
What is this? Is this for the Russian attack on Germany? Cause if it is, I'm calling bull Tech (talk)

No, this is the invasion of Russian Finland by Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, supported by Germany. It is technically not part of World War One, as we are not allied with the Central Powers or the Triple Entente, but rather have a concurrent enemy as Germany. Mscoree (talk) 20:19, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I was confused here. Thanks for clearing up. Tech (talk) 20:21, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

This algorithm is very flawed as well as biased, so I am suspending the results pending a revision from myself.AP (talk) 20:54, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, scratch that. This algorithm is void, since it is part of the European War. As I told MS, you can't pick and choose who you fight because you fear losing. You declared war on Russia, so you're fighting everyone else.AP (talk) 21:02, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Can you at least not delete the algorithm? Also why does this have to be merged into World War One? That's a lot less realistic, especially since I'm not at war or combating pretty much anyone else. Come to think of it, all fronts and wars should have their own algorithm that's way more realistic. For example if there was only one algorithm it might show Germany winning World War One, when if there was one for each front they might win the east, but lose the west (like OTL). Very different results, and this system fails to capture that entirely. Mscoree (talk) 21:23, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

If you combine basically every European war of the decade into one algorithm you're going to get a very skewed result. Can't pick and chose? Tell that to the many nations in OTL who did just that. If Germany was losing World War One, Liechtenstein could join the allies and start claiming they successfully invaded Germany, all because of your insistence to combine every algorithm... Tr0llis (talk) 21:27, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

I strongly agree with Tr0llis, these algos should be different. JoshTheRoman (talk) 21:33, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

I already added the different fronts, but AP deleted them, saying it was one algorithm. Which would be stupid. ~Tech

Exactly, it doesn't make much sense. Isn't World War One supposed to be the focus of this game? Why is AP trying to make it a passing event like it's some unimportant conflict? Tr0llis (talk) 22:08, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

I see what you three are trying to say, but before I get into that I need to clear some things up. 1) Denmark wants to pretend like it's only fighting Russia, all while having delusions of grandeur in terms of its naval capacity. 2) You are not realistically going to do this, since by attacking Russia you are angering the British; you are basically not even considering the fact that there is a British naval blockade of the German coast which you will have to bypass to even attack Russia by sea (unless you go around the Kola, which at this point is highly unlikely and costly for you).

The war with Germany, at least, will be in one algorithm. Someone added a ridiculous amount of algorithms, something that is very unrealistic right now. In the mean time, I am reinstating the winter war algorithm and will be revising it. I am notifying everyone now that there will not be a ridiculous amount of algorithms here and if you think you may qualify for a separate algorithm, tell me beforehand.

'''Aside from that, carry on. AP (talk) 00:19, November 21, 2014 (UTC)'''

Im going yo say your expectations about the blockade of the German coasr are a bit misinformed. I'm on my phone at the moment, but the ATL battle I described in my turn is entirely based on OTL. In OTL the Germans sent dome 70+ ships to Riga, and so I did thry did thr same here. Furyhermore this all before the British even rounded the Jutland Peninsula (by force), so aside for a few exceptions, arent really present. Mscoree (talk) 01:15, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Also to answer your question the sides are Denmark, Norway, and Sweden as belligerents, Germany as military support, Greece and Italy as economic support (although that is up for debate) versus Russia. Mscoree (talk)

both Italy and Greece have stated their neutrality and therefore I will not include them in the algorithm.AP (talk) 01:28, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Announcement on this algorithm: Technology points in the algorithm are only given to your most recent milestone.AP (talk) 01:48, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

With one algo for Germany, do you mean like, one algo for them fighting both the Western and Russia? Because I feel that those two should be seperated fronts Tech (talk) 06:33, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Also, UK joined Russia Tech (talk) 06:35, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

British and Siamese

 * ​Location: 3 (Near)
 * Population: +10 (Twice as large)
 * Military: +15 and +5 = +10 avg. x 1.5 = 15
 * Economy: 5 (Decent) + 15 (Strong Industrial) = 10
 * Motive: 7+5+3= 15
 * Technology: 3 (Machine Guns) and 6 (Machine Guns, Tanks & Airplanes) = 8
 * Fronts: -4 (Two Fronts)
 * Allies: +10 (Siam)
 * Chance: 2
 * Total: 68

Dutch

 * Location: 5 (Inside)
 * Population: 0 ''
 * Military:  Decent +5
 * Economy: 5 ''(Decent)
 * Motive: 10 (Economic, Hegemony) 
 * Technology: 3''' (Machine Guns)
 * Fronts: -4 (Two Fronts)
 * Allies: +10''' Germany
 * Chance: 4
 *  Total: 39 

Results
68-39/68 *100 = 42.6470588235 Since M is over 40, Dutch East Indies government is toppled.

Canada and Newfoundland

 * Location: +2
 * Population +2 +20
 * Military +5
 * Economy +5
 * Motive: Aiding Ally +3 Democracy +3
 * Tech: Machine Guns +3
 * Allies: +2
 * Chance: 1
 * Total: 46?

Iceland and Greenland

 * Location +5
 * Population ???
 * Military +2
 * Economy +5
 * Motive +5 defense +3 democracy
 * Technology: Machine Guns? +3
 * Allies +2
 * Chance +4
 * Total: 24?

Result
22/47 = 46.81%

The Dominion of Canada occupies Iceland and Greenland. Final outcome depends on the war in Europe.

Discussion
I think this is right. 02:00, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Republic of China

 * Location: +5 [Within the same nation]


 * Population: +20


 * Military: +8 [Strong Military]


 * Economy: +10 [Strong Agricultural Economy]


 * Motive: +7 [Aiding Kinsmen]


 * Technology: +3 [Machine Guns]


 * Chance: idk someone do dis for me


 * Allies: +8 [Russia and United Kingdom]


 * Total: 61

Germany

 * Location: +7 [Major City]


 * Population: 0


 * Military: +15 [Top 5 Tier]


 * Economy: +20 [Extremely Strong] -5 [In Recession] = +15


 * Motive: +5 [Not Part of Homeland]


 * Technology: +3 [Machine Guns]
 * Fronts: -16 [4 Fronts][African Front/East European Front/West European Front/Asian Front]


 * Chance: idk someone do dis for me


 * Allies: 0 [None in Asia]


 * Total: 29

Results
61 - 29/61 = 0.4637%

Discussion
meh...

France

 * Location: +3 [Near the nation]


 * Population: +10


 * Military: +15 [Top 5]


 * Economy:+20 [Extremely Strong] -5 [In Recession] = +15


 * Motive: +7 [Hegemony]


 * Technology: +6 [Airplanes]


 * Chance: 3


 * Allies: 0 [None in Americas]


 * Total: 59

Dutch

 * Location: +7 [Major City]


 * Population: 0


 * Military: +8 [Good]


 * Economy: +5 [Decent] 


 * Motive: +5 [Not Part of Homeland]


 * Technology: +3 [Machine Guns]
 * Fronts: -12 [3 Fronts]


 * Chance: 6


 * Allies: 0 [None in Americas]


 * Total: 22

Results
59 - 22/59 = 58.6271186441

Discussion
Questions, comments, concerns?