Alternative History talk:TSPTF

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CrimsonAssassin’s Recent Bans
I noticed something very odd when I went on the wiki the other day, and talking on chat with people seems to have confirmed what I suspected. On June 23 CrimsonAssassin, completely out of the blue, decided to permanently ban four users; Tr0llis, Fritzmet, Harvenard2, and Mscoree.As you can see on this page there is no explanation from Crim as to why this is. I believe these bans are completely unwarranted, given that not only were none of these users breaking any of the wiki’s rules or causing harm whatsoever, one of them, Mscoree, hasn’t even been on the wiki in weeks, thus meaning he couldn’t possibly have committed any sort of crime, especially not one worthy of a permanent ban.

From what I’ve gathered on chat and through people’s talk pages, a dispute began between Crim and Tr0llis the other day when Tr0llis signed up to play Principia Moderni IV. On that page it notes that no one is forbidden from playing unless otherwise stated, and furthermore Tr0llis apparently got the approval of three moderators; Josh, Rex, and Nathan, whether tentative or not, that he would be allowed to play in the game. I say tentatively because their approval was in part dependant of the approval of Scraw, the head moderator, but I notice that Scraw never objected to Tr0llis either. Despite all this, however, Crim, in his capacity as a regular player of the game (not a moderator), decided to remove Tr0llis (and others) from the game. When this was detected and the moderators gave Tr0llis the permission to add himself back, Crim still did not accept it.

Perhaps it was that Crim felt he could not “win” the map game if people he disliked were in any position of power, or perhaps he just did not like them playing the same game, but the fact of the matter is he had no right to remove a fellow player from the game, especially after the moderators allowed Tr0llis into the game. What Crim did more or less constitutes vandalism, but that is more of a map game matter, and not the subject of this appeal.

Continuing the background information, we know that Crim seems to have a bit of a personal bias against Tr0llis (and others). From his infamous, previous permanent ban of Tr0llis, which was overturned when it was revealed that Tr0llis was falsely banned, to his numerous other bans usually stemming from discussions on chat. However, this time there was no perceived argument on chat. At least previously Crim could claim that Tr0llis or whoever was “misbehaving” on chat when he banned him for a day or two, but in these circumstances we can see that none of the victims were on chat at or around the time of the ban. In fact, Mscoree hadn’t gone on chat in perhaps weeks. So was it something they had edited? No, we see that none of them had made any recent edits, the closest one being Tr0llis’ edit of his sandbox.

So let’s look at the reason Crim stated for the bans:

“Mscoree remains on the wiki to harm the community and to cause trouble. He has worn out his welcome several times over and it's time we all stop being afraid when he'll return.”

This doesn’t line up though, because Mscoree ‘’does not’’ remain on the wiki, in general, nor does he remain or attempt to harm the community in any way. You’d be hard pressed to find an example of him damaging the community in the last several months, especially considering he hasn’t posted much in the past few months. And arguably you could say Crim is the one harming the community here, by banning several users for no apparent reason.

He says we should stop being afraid of when Mscoree returns, but as far as I can tell no one is afraid of Mscoree, and if they are they definitely shouldn’t be. The last time I saw Mscoree in chat people seemed glad to see him. He hasn’t caused anything even close to a problem in months, maybe more. Ironically, people seem to be afraid of when ‘’Crim’’ returns, given that when he does come on the wiki he leaves a trail of bans in his wake. This pattern of ban after ban from Crim, although originally attributed to the apparently poor character of the accused, seems more likely to indicate the true nature of the accuser, Crim. And just to further illustrate the point, I believe he intends to permanently ban me as well, as people were warning me to stay off chat and not make this message. But I believe I should make this message, because even though I will probably be banned I think the TSPTF needs to be alerted to this malpractice, or rather, injustice, that is taking place. Ratcolor (talk) 16:02, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Took a day for you to write a rant? Thought this would have been up within the hour of their ban. Shame.

I'm not going to respond to this in length, mostly because it's a gigantic waste of time and I know it'll go over your head, but also because I sent an IP check request on you and Ms or any of the other geniuses. Even if it turns out that you aren't a sockpuppet of those four, you'll run out of steam.

To everyone else, this is my massive display of power. Anyone who stands in my way will be crushed under my boot. I claim this wiki and I will rename it to Crim Wiki. You will kneel.

In all seriousness, it's pretty obvious that banning those four had to happen. We've been hoping these guys don't return for six months and when they do return, nobody's happy. They think it's funny to make things harder for people here. I know people like that and the only way it's going to stop for good is if we do this. As we can see in Mitro's blog post 'What the hell happened to the Althistory Wiki,' we need to get rid of these users if we're going to get any better. That's it. Purge is over. Go back to worrying about the fallout from Brexit. This is the last time we're going to have our time wasted from any of these four.

Love and Rainbows and Sparkles,

Crim - 10/10 - IGN 17:51, June 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * While I can't speak for Fritzmet and Harvenard2, I'm 100% on board with Crim's blocking of Mscoree and Tr0llis (rather surprised to see MS hadn't been blocked already). These two [alone] have proven their disobedience on more than one occasion (especially towards admins). -- 18:18, June 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * I do fully support Crim's vigilant and justified actions against these users. I have been victim to their harassment (namely from Fritzmet and sometimes Tr0llis) and a witness to their ways of manipulation to avoid punishment. They have been given plenty of chances to redeem themselves, and have failed every chance they had. I understand that Ratcolor is close with them and will follow their path of lies and manipulation, but let us remember that if we allow this repulsive behavior to continue and/or return, then we are failing ourselves. ( 23:06, June 24, 2016 (UTC))


 * Screencap_e-mail.png only does this make Ratcolor the fifth and final crony to be banned, this also means their wall of shame entry will be one instead of four. ez-pz. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 00:25, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * God thank you, feels alot better to have these 5 gone, they bring out the worst in all our users and have gone digging around in everybodies personal lives they can get in including me and crim. For christ sake they tried to investigate in a dickish way if someone had attempted a suicide... Feudalplague (talk) 09:27, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay at first I was opposed to the Crony-wide ban with no particular provocation other than their very presence, but that IP check seems pretty conclusive. Good work Crimmy. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 18:38, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

09:49, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feud, strictly speaking only 1 is gone Prinsenvlag.svg Hail Sean! (Get a free potato here)

Chat Ban
Today I went on chat for the first time in a long time and UR immediately banned me. Nathan I think jokingly said I was a sockpuppet of Crim and tk ban me immediately and maybe the sarcasm was lost on UR becauae he actually did. Anyway can i be unbanned? I wasnt doing anything wrong in chat. KLinkinLogsAssassnGirljjj4444 (talk) 00:43, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Allow me to display why I banned you.


 * Granted these were taken in July of 2015 and you were not punished for it. Your account also features an array of...oddities; making your account seem like that of a troll. ( 00:47, June 25, 2016 (UTC))

All of those were from a year ago. What did i do just now to warrant a ban? I was already appropriately handled a year ago, are you really going to permanently ban me from chat for aomething like that? Those are taken way out of context too, pretty sure you or others were acting similarly at the time. Anyway im sorry about how i acted a year ago and if youd be so kind to give me another chance KLinkinLogsAssassnGirljjj4444 (talk) 00:51, June 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Nope. Unless a Lieutenant or Brass disagrees with me, I am unwilling to unban you due to your previous behavior and the contents of your userpage. Your userpage just screams "troll." ( 00:54, June 25, 2016 (UTC))

Imgur.com/a/C2t1d. And imgur.com/a/fBi2l are two albums i know of in which you act similarly inappropriate.


 * First one, yes I did act wrong, and I was violating the wiki's rules at the time (sockpuppeting). However, there is something verrrry suspicious about it. You were not present that (if I recall correctly) AND Fritz' speeches were highlighted. I think you just exposed yourself, Fritz.


 * Second one I don't know what I did wrong.

I didnt take one of the albums screenshots, but i had saved them all the same. Only the three images there i took. I posted both albums though because i think theyre rather telling.


 * I just find it odd that you show up right after several cronies were banned and post screenshots that were taken by a crony. ~UR


 * No response. Hmm, interesting. ~UR ( 04:38, June 25, 2016 (UTC))


 * I did the ban thing. Good catch, UR. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 17:39, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Petition on behalf of banned users
Hello everyone,

Lately, we have seen several users permabanned from the wiki, in the dead of night without any prior warning. Some of these haven't done anything on the wiki in months, and one of them hadn't done anything on the wiki at all since his last ban ended. I refer of course to the users Trollis, Mscoree, Fritzmet, Ratcolor, and Harvenard, also known to many members as "the cronies".

These users have been on the wiki for many years, so long in fact I myself have never interacted with Ms myself, as his last ban was a year before I joined. Over the years, they have collectively beeen indicted of many crimes on the wiki, including harrassment, sockpuppeting, blackmail, cheating in map games, and jaywalking (although the last one is still in contest). After the fall of Ms some year or so ago, they have all dissappeared from the wiki. Since the announcement of Principia Moderni IV, however, they began popping back out of the woodwork once again. Crimson Assassin, an old veteran and arch nemisis of the cronies, saw the writing on the wall, and acted swiftly to permaban them all.

However, this has come at some cost. Most of the people who remember the cronies are not active on the wiki anymore. Most of the active members, like me, are much younger and see this action only as a childish use of admin power. At worst, many can see this as the beginning of becoming Alternate History forums, where people can be banned for just being disliked personally, regardless of the content they produce. The retroactive justification for banning them is sockpuppeting, for which the evidence is dubious at best. I can't speak for myself, but how is it that these four people could be operated by the same person for so many years, and no one (not even their nemisis Crim) ever noticed any discrepancy, or even thought to check? Just think at all the map games, political simulators, chat arguments, and community TLs over the years in which some or all of the cronies participated at the same time. If they are the same person, then he has accomplished much more than any of us could in the same period of time.

I am not here to defend anyone. In fact, I would strongly encourage no one to use this as a platform for lampooning. No debates, no arguments, no evidence. All I want is to do is prove that we are civilized human beings, who don't constitue justice as throwing clubs and spears at people ostricized from the community. This is just a simple petition to see if anyone on the wiki (particularly in the TSPTF) disagree with any one of Crim's actions against the cronies.

Unban

 * Vote
 * Can't ban someone who hasn't edited in 6 months.

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * 18:07, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * 06:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.

Unban

 * Has a Featured TL.
 * Has a Featured TL.

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:39, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * 06:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Unban

 * Vote

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * 18:03, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:39, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.

Unban

 * Vote

Stay Banned

 * Vote
 * Person67 (talk) 17:50, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:41, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * SPQR Emblem Transparent.png Consul Ioshua   #Beware!  TSPTF_Badge.svg 23:48, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Stay Banned
That (^, above) quote says it all.
 * Vote
 * Feudalplague (talk)
 * Blason_comte_fr_Anjou.svg By the grace of god Count of maine, Forcalquier, Anjou, and Provence, prince of albania and his highness the dauphin of France Belial.  03:53, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence. —  T  I   M  (TSW • AH • MGW • Contribs ) 05:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Sockpuppeting is a dishonourable and in my opinion unforgivable offence." – Tim
 * 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Word of Scraw
Did you miss the IP check or something? Sockpuppeting is not allowed on this wiki, and unlike other cases people may have in mind, we actually have proof coming down from the top. I would also like to point out that blocks are not a matter of voting on this wiki.

21:00, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly what Scraw said. Bans are definitely not affected at all by voting or petitions. They are final. And yes for those of you who didn't notice, a couple of days ago Crim requested an IP check on them and all but MS were proved to be a match, and the only reason MS wasn't was because he hadn't edited in so long they couldn't check him. Sockpuppeting is a permaban offence. Simple as that. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 21:11, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, a few things since it seems this campaign seems to actually be supported by people, which is just ridiculous.

We knew Ms was sockpuppeting, it's just we didn't want to kick up a fuss, since about a year ago. I distinctly remember at least three times that an IP match was detected by wikia. The responsibility of wanting to avoid this huge argument that I knew would happen (because some of you guys are just rabid when it comes to Ms and company, let's be honest) lies on me, and I'd like to apologise, but there's absolutely no doubt that they were sockpuppets. Which is a rule that has been previously enforced. This is not something particularly against Mscoree and "company", it's something that is basic law in the althistory wikia. And it's ridiculous for you guys to argue against one of the most established rules in the wikia.

Anyways, even without the sockpuppeting arguments, you guys would have to be deluded to think Mscoree and company did not deserve a ban. They were a constant headache for the entire moderating team, trolling and flamebaiting basically at all moments, ignoring moderator arguments repeatedly, and breaking wikia (and timeline and map game) rules. Just this warrants a ban; and indeed, they had the longest ban logs in alternate history wikia... history, lol. There's absolutely no reason why we should not uphold the ban.

Scraw is completely right too. Bans are a decision of the TSPTF. There is no voting in regards to bans, and this one will stay in place. Fed (talk) 00:41, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Figured id stick to my guns and vote anyways. People seem to fail to recognize how bad these users were and i think the proof of socks with IP connections is enough. My only thought is the various socks that have come up the past days out of nowhere... to defend them. We need to be on the EXTREME lookout for people that show up and act like them. We generally know how they walk and talk so it shouldnt be too hard to pick them out. Feudalplague (talk)

There was a day and time that sockpuppeting was a crime justifiably punished by banishment. None of this voting nonsense. They're socks, we have evidence, and they're gone. That's just my two cents. Also, hi guys, it's been too long. Cour *talk* 04:11, June 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * Are we seriously voting on this? -- 06:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, we are. And if they were sockpuppeting and there's proof then anybody should be banned, no matter who they are, end of story. Awesome history 28 (talk) 18:07, June 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * This petition is ludicrous. They (or him/her since they are really one person) have been given God knows how many chances to become decent users (or a decent user). 22:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

I love how someoneone put a petition up and we all said yeah they got what they deserved. Combined with both the petition not being really valid plus the fact it agrees with what has been done. All these arguments are a waste of typing because we all agree they are a bunch of sockpuppets, vandals and harrasers. Person67 (talk) 15:22, June 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * I love how people think a petition is going to unban these guys. And by people, I mean Oct. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki
 * This is fine as far as I'm concerned. We aren't AH.com where we won't shut down your thoughts or petitions, but we won't always accept them either.  "This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 04:10, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

...Seriously? Sigh... Lordganon (talk) 23:28, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

TbombTheAltHistorian
I have just permanently banned TbombTheAltHistorian for continued harassment. Over the past few months, I blocked his account for continued duplication. His only two responses were incoherent gibberish whose purpose was to harass and threaten me.

The following are the two rants which he sent to me.


 * May 22
 * July 1

Since his second response was purposely to continue said harassment, I have taken the liberty to permanently ban his account. I feel this is justified. -- 03:07, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * It appears as Tbomb has started a second account, Queen's Own Rifles of Althistory. I have permanently blocked this account as well, as he is circumventing his previous block. I will be reporting this to Wikia.


 * Secondly, to both Tbomb and Nathan (who has also contacted me about this), you both bring up that you have been diplomatic and that I'm in the wrong. Tbomb, the only two messages you sent me were pure rants with no room to work out a solution. -- 16:54, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

~ Sockpuppet

Sockpuppeting is not allowed. Please use one account on this wiki.

Tbomb received 4 warnings, whereas I thought Nuke only gave 3, so Tbomb has actually been given more warnings than most.

Nuke, learn the proper manner of blocking in order to prevent use of sockpuppets.

21:32, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Scraw, what do you mean by "proper manner of blocking"? Was there a setting I missed? -- 21:49, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Prevent other users from logging in with this IP address" That prevents creation of new accounts to bypass the block.
 * 22:15, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I've already enacted that feature when I first blocked Tbomb. He has stated and proven that he is using proxies to make new IPs (hence his "IP police" rants). -- 22:20, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

...Yeah, if they can use multiple IPs blocking them by it does little to stop them. Guy's obviously a nut anyway.

Nathan, for shame, fyi.

Lordganon (talk) 23:27, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

The Purge
I am deleting many things. Yesterday I cleared out the pages marked for deletion and preserved anything I thought was unfairly marked. If you have anything of your own that you would like deleted, mark it with the delete template and I will remove it. If you're not sure about it, I can always restore the page later. Also, be on the lookout for bad pages. If you see any bad pages, please mark them for deletion. Here is what constitutes a bad page: Together we can make althistory wiki great again.
 * Two sentences or less
 * Gibberish/nonsense/spam
 * Future history
 * Derivative works

04:17, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

I see no problem with this. Scraw has my support.

 Consul Ioshua  [[User talk:JoshTheRoman|
 * 1) Beware! ]] TSPTF_Badge.svg 04:18, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Fix your signature.

23:57, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

History
Um this may sound weird but ever thought of a history for the TSPTF? Like making the wiki or fantasy I don't know, but I thought that would be cool and to help make would be cool.... Lieutenant113 (talk) 02:12, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Rennovation
After seeing Mitro's blog on what happened to this wiki, I'm proposing a series of small renovations. Note that this initial suggestion is going to be concise and can be elaborated or elborated on. What I suggest first is a major adjustment to the navigation bar. Here is an example of the current navigation bar proposal.

Navigation Bar
The "On the Wiki" tab is unaltered. The next tab, "Useful Stuff" (the name is up for change) contains "Guide to Alternate History", which is a guideline to beginner alternate historians. What I propose for the base of this, is my guide. Which has earned praise a few months back. Other contents of this tab also include "Points of Divergence", which is a huge list of PoDs. We aleady have this page, but it could use more polishing and organizing other than dates. Next up is "Timeline Ranking". This is a major expansion on the concept of Featured Timelines. Based on quality, a timeline will be ranked. If somebody requests a promotion, or a demotion, than a promotion or demotion request can be submitted, similiar to how TSPTF nominations or impeachments work. An example of proposed ranks can be seen here.

Onto the next tab, "Community". There wouldn't be much change other than the "Community" link would link to here, a link to the Sterling Awards, and a link to the "Turtledove Awards" (name is up for change again). The Turtledove awards is actually a set of awards proposed by Scraw. These awards are on a monthy basis, compared to the annual Sterlings. Scraw himself can elaborate on this if he wants down below.

The next tab "Projects". The "Timelines" link would simply be a list of timelines with their rank accordingly. The next link is the same suggested page, without ranks. "Other Projects" would simply be projects that are not timelines or map games.

The next tab "Help", would be a directory to all things TSPTF. "Reports and Suggestions" would redirect to the TSPTF Talk Page and the next link is self-explainatory. The next link is "rules". Note that these rules would not be specific, but more of a guideline on what a user could be punished for, both on chat and on the wiki. A proposal can be seen here. These rules rallies for what should be common sense: no slurs, no quarelling (this is not debating, but is more so direct name-calling), no spamming, etc.

Note that this is only the proposal of a new navigation bar and pages with it. I'll be posting the rest of my proposal later on, including statements against the cronies.

 Consul Ioshua   #Beware!   02:30, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

As of popular request I've also added a "Nominations" link to the "Help" tab.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   14:59, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion
This sounds pretty good but personally I'd also like to see the user rights page on the navbar, so that people can easily get there and see who's attempting to become a corrupt official TSPTF member. SkyGreen24 14:01, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

These sound like great ideas, and I agree with Sky, the request for user rights page is much tool hard to get to. A few other thing that might be good to update are the the Experts page and list of althists page, both of which are somewhat out of date. In particular, the list of althists page could do with some cleaning up (It also might be a good place to look for Scraw's purge).

I have added the TSPTF stuff to the bar.

20:53, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Looks good, could we get a brief summary of the Turtledove awards and what they entail? Also I like the rankings thing, though it could be problematic. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 21:38, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

To begin with, I am opposed to calling them the Turtledove Awards, or calling them anything at all. They would be simple: "Article of the Month" for a well written article in the past month and "User of the Month" for a user who did lots of good work in the past month. And we would do them every month. The winner would be decided by voting.

00:17, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

More unnecessary reforms. Cool. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 05:51, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

I am against the winner being decided by voting unless only the mods/admins etc. would vote. You cannot guarantee that people will not count in irrelevant factors (e.g., their relationship to the nominee, personal ambitions) to their decision.

As in any vote. I favour the ranking by the users having the same conditions as the Feature History (registered users with 100 or more edits), Any way to highlight the collaborative/group/open/semi-open/community timelines in the toolbar at least? Besides a common template and policy and adive page. JorgeGG (talk) 13:20, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Since this has been up for two days, I'm going to assume everyone but Crim approves of everything included in this section: Written Rules, Scraw's Awards, and Timeline Rankings. I'll get started making the pages for them.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   15:34, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Tbh I feel votes get messy and take up unnecessary time, especially if they are going to be every month, so maybe just have a couple of experienced users decide behind the scenes via chat/talk pages, to avoid popularity coming into play, like what Candies said. FP Now 10% edgier!!! 21:17, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Turtledove awards each month are pretty iffy since most active users just play map games. I think it should be every 2 or 3 months. That way, the awards not only have more competition, but they also have more prestige. Navigation bar would be good, I guess. Ranking timelines is utterly needless. Want an opinions column? Write one in your blog. Rules thing is highly unnecessary. Barring our own conventions on what AltHistory is, we follow Wikia Central rules. MGOC is entirely unneeded and needs to be dismantled altogether, its power being delegated to the TSPTF. This is a website, not a courtroom drama where we need separate committees.

Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 07:48, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with everything Crim has said except that I think the Turtledove awards should occur monthly. Asides from that, I cannot stress my support for having a capable neutral elite chosen based on merit vote in these short of events in place of common peasants users, to avoid popularity/personal feelings towards that person etc. from having a role in decisions.

Crim, if timeline rankings are useless, then the Stirlings and the proposed Turtledove awards are also useless. They serve as motivation to improve timelines, projects, and encourage more devotion to the wiki.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   20:45, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Contests are fine. Having set TL ranks is a far different thing. It's an opinionated matter and it's just going to fall out of use. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 20:51, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Well if you think it is going to fall out of use anyway, there is nothing lost in giving it a shot, right?

Except my time. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 23:16, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

You don't have to do anything... I'm pretty sure Josh and others would be perfectly willing to organize the whole thing.

No, but I'm going to have to clean up after all the angry users who think they don't deserve this rank or that rank. I'm going to have to deal with more fighting on chat. And then, when this inevitably falls out of use, I'm going to have to clean it all up or explain to people why it isn't used anymore like the countless other things we've done that didn't work out. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 23:41, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

If fighting picks up on chat, then disabling it will not be out of the realm of possibility. Talk pages were created for a reason. Imp (Say Hi?!) 01:52, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Rules
After pointing out to Josh a rule page already exists, since he has shown interest and created an article which makes clear what he means, Josh will be updating the original rules article, after which the article he created shall be deleted. Just a small note to avoid future confusions. Imp (Say Hi?!) 02:23, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Reddit
You may not know, but there is an AltHistoryWiki subreddit on Reddit. Although it may not directly relate to the wiki, if spread far enough, it gives us a horrible image across the internet, from the AH community to Reddit. Imho it needs to be shut down immediately. Some all of the posts on the reddit are direct harassment and could be used against them. Not to mention we can point out that the people running this wiki are the cronies. As far as I know we can contact the Reddit admins, present the evidence, and get it closed. I'm not sure how to approach this though. Suggestions are welcomed down below.

<span style="background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#B8860B), to(#DEB887)); border:4px ridge grey; -webkit-border-radius:0em 0em 0em 0em;"> <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.5em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;">Consul Ioshua  <span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px brown, 0 0 1em #000, 0 0 0.2em #0FF; color: white; font: 1.0em Cambria, serif; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"> #Beware!   04:57, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion
I second this motion. 05:01, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, we must shut it down Lieutenant113 (talk) 05:08, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

I think it's kind of funny since most of what they're saying is really stupid, but getting that shut down might be a good idea. Oliver Crimwell - Lord Protector of the Wiki 07:35, July 14, 2016 (UTC) https://redd.it/4ry0w7 Trish pt7 (talk) 20:43, July 19, 2016 (UTC) I agree, it is not reformist or counter-culture, just trollish.Trish pt7 (talk) 01:51, July 17, 2016 (UTC) One line is even "State of Terrorism on the Wiki: The Msist State of Ratc and Map Games (صمإسمحالة الجرذ-ج وخريطة الألعاب), an unrecognized faction on the wiki dating to 2014, has claimed responsibility for latest attacks on chat". Another says "Rare JoshTheRoman sighting today at the Baltimore Airport". Trish pt7 (talk) 01:57,. July 17, 2016 (UTC)

He rants on here against LG and others and threatens to use 'Racts' http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/User:Mscoree/Rage_Against_the_LG Trish pt7 (talk) 03:08, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Proposal
I'm happy to be joining this wiki, especially with friends being already here, but I would like to propose some ideas friends have. The first thing is a User Appeal page where the a user can appeal a decision made by an admin, by making negotiations with both the Admin and Scrawland. One of the major complaints friends have about this particular wiki is lack of a way to defend against unfair rulings by Admins. My friends have told me about multiple cases where Admins unfairely banned and/or permanbanned users. I have also looked through this page and can see that voting on the wiki is apparently highly discouraged.

I don't see why in a world of democracy this is considered the right way to do things. Sure, there needs to be Scrawland to do the ultimate overseeing of things on the Wiki and maybe even make some calls, but does it mean this Wiki needs to have a dictator who always seems to back Admins? If it weren't for this system, this whole fiasco with Crimson that is on here would have never happened. I can understand the Tbomb incident, what he was doing was very aggressive in nature, but these users hadn't even been on the wiki for long durations and had done nothing wrong at the current time. This wiki looks like it will be fun, but it does appear to need change. Remember, change is a good thing. TheGreatTiger (talk) 15:22, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

All administrators are elected and can be removed by a vote.

20:38, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

Potential Return of the Cronies
So today, July the 19th, 2016, I and many others were on the chatbox discussing things. JoshTheRoman, United Republic , and others began discussing the banning of the user known as Newalle. Josh essentially started the conversation talking about how Newalle was very suspicious, and that there is evidence he is a crony. The evidence is as follows: Similar trollish profile pictures as other cronies, editting MS' secret portal, and also selecting Oldenburg as a new player right off the bat in PM4. Feud said that he checked and there was no evidence of him editting the portal. That is when I stepped in and linked to this. The link shows Newalle linking to the Squirrevolution wiki. You can go on the wiki and check the content on what is there.

This also casts suspicion on another user of the wiki: Trish Pt7. (S)he is one the frequent editors of the Squirrevolution wiki, and admits in their profile there they are the globally banned user, Whipsnade. UR also speculated that due to the similarities between Trish and another user on that wiki, they were the same person. The Squirrevolution wiki also has a collection of IPs that may or may not be cronies. Also, here is proof the wiki was created by the now perma-banned user MS.

I am not sure if this was already brought to the TSPTF's attention before or not in regards to the wiki itself. However, the evidence found today is new, so I decided to post it here. Thanks. Blocky858 (talk) 19:39, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

I never edited any "portal". I simply saw Trish's edit in the edit log and when I clicked on it, it seemed like vandalism. He says in the edit log that he is fixing a broken link, but the first link worked fine. So I assumed that Trish was vandalizing the page, since it had someone else's name on it. I have nothing to do with Trish or his wiki, I was just trying to fix vandalism and truth be told get some edits so I can actually edit PM4. Also how is my profile "trollish", it's a historical photo. Newalle (talk) 23:43, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, let's settle down. Blocky, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Fact of the matter is, that wiki is entirely run by them. There's no sugarcoating it, and you just don't find that by accident and then happen upon the wiki. You just don't. To grant them amnesty is naive and idiotic. Sockpuppet or no, if you're going from their little wikis to ours, you're looking for trouble. And let me tell you something about trouble, it's something I'd rather not go through right now. So I'm going to note this: Anyone found associated with that wiki will be blocked permanently.

Crim de la Kremlin - "This is my signature. That means I just posted." 01:23, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

Just found this on their reddit, guess I'll post it here for further discussion. 02:00, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

We're growing
Do you here that, that's the sound of the masses slowely waking up and joining us. From 62-70 users on the subreddit in 1 night. Get you guard up, we are here, we are watching and we will show you our true potential as "cronies". Just wait until the wiki also sees the post I made in larger numbers. Oh, and lest we forget Trish. thanks for adding her to my cause. You guys are helping me in a way and for that I thank you. "2 communities, 1 goal". - TbombTheAltHistorian

Oh, and Nuke, look out ;)