Talk:Timeline (1983: Doomsday)

This timeline sounds heavily inspired by "On the Beach" --Marcpasquin 16:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

-No just logical elements that would result in a large scale nuclear war scenario. Nevil Shute took that scenario and extended it into fallout which "never decayed" and the poisoning of the whole world, including eventually Australia.

In any 1970s-1990s nuclear war scenario, Australia, Argentina, and South Africa would be the only major industrialized areas to survive relatively intact.

The use of a submarine (like Shute did in "OTB") is logical, since they can dive down to the safety of underwater when encountering radiation. Plus, being nuclear means they don't need refueling.


 * That's probably true. Ironically, a nuclear submarine would be the safest and most reliable means of transport in a post-atomic horror... Michael riber 20:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Which was the reason I included the death of the crew of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier "Nimitz". Though the ship would survive and could even remain powered for sometime, the crew due to exposure to the atmosphere would still die, unlike a sub.

Was China targeted by the USSR to try to ensure they didn't take advantage of the USSR and US being devastated?--TEAKAY 02:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I also wonder about North Korea, would its isolationism be great enough that perhaps a larger proportion of their population would survive and some sort government could survive, though at best it would be perhaps feudal-like?--TEAKAY 11:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Given it's dictatorial government (under Kim the elder) and the fact that it would lie in the direct path of HUGE amounts of fallout from the Soviets to the west...NK would probably be pretty hard hit and collapse.97.82.131.34 12:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, I forgot about the nukes :P --TEAKAY 22:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Newest additions
As author of the original "Doomsday", I appreciate the recent additions to the time-line. Strictly speaking anything beyond 2007 would be "future history", but the formation of international alliances even government seems logical given the disaster this timeline predicts.

Recent additions/future history
Thanks for the appreciation of the "future history" just added, espcially as this is my first contribution to an existing ATL within this wiki. The whole "Doomsday" setup seemed well suited for this extension, though at first I believed it to be rather positive.

One doubt I have is about reactivating satellites more than 30 years after nuclear fallout as I don't have reliable knowledge about possible times they keep in orbit. Even if they can maintain sufficient power levels for that long period I am not sure.

Perhaps another irony can be suggested: Voyager 1 + 2 have 70's nuclear power cells which keep them sending signals even 30 years after departure fom the outer rim of our solar system..

It could be interesting to hear further comments on this as the same "nuclear irony" already mentioned in relation to nuclear submarines.

Best Regards

Nightsphere
 * Typically even the best satellites would fail due to radiation/solar flares, but only the solar-powered ones. The radio-thermoelectric ones would die after a decade or two.

Updates?
I really enjoyed this TL, it reminds a book I read about a decade ago especially with the towns you have surviving on the Pacific coast. Are you ever going to continue it? Mitro 20:20, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Note sure if more "future history" would be appropriate in here... I got a couple of ideas.. but therefore doubting to write it.

Any opinions about this ? Nightsphere


 * Hey future history is alright as long as it comes from an alternate background. I know some people have a problem with it but I always saw true future history involving our own timeline. Mitro 01:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Updates (from original author)
This is an open ATL. Any environmental science majors out there might want to add the ecological aspects of a total nuclear war (I figured ozone, but there would be numerous others). Political science majors might find it interesting to see what happens in a Brazil/Argentina/Australia ruled world.

world pupolation
remember world population in 1983 is arround 4,5 "Milestones", review your billons dies, i dont know, maybe more maybe minus

"Final death toll on that first day is 1.53 billion people...from the United States, to Cuba, across to the United Kingdom, Western and Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, China, Japan, the Phillipines, and three cities in Australia."

"Predictions of the results of a nuclear exchange from the late 70s and early 80s are fairly accurate. In addition to the initial deaths, subsequent deaths due to fall-out, out-of-control fires, starvation, dehydration, disease, etc. adds another 700 million, mostly in the Northern Hemisphere."

and somebody write that in the rightwikiway --Fero 19:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

--> Thanks for the hint...the numbers of people dying is something I haven't touched yet in the changes, because it's very difficult to find serious 1980's estimations on the effect of a global war of this scale... Will research if I find accurate numbers. Anyone any idea where to find that ? (except Australian/new Zealand Statistic Bureau?

--> rightwikiway ... a general point as I know the original style may appear a bit too book-like and not like a contemporary encyclopedia report... But after having read virtually all ATL's in the recent 2 years I personally don't know exactly what should be called "rightwikiway". Si if you or anybody can get that more detailed i would be grateful...

Xi&#39;Reney 15:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This site may look sort of like Wikipedia, but it's not an encyclopedia, and there are no rules about writing style. There is no reason why we can't write in the style of a story or a novel if we want to.  Benkarnell 17:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * So I will continue writing in the style I feel appropriate. Thank you Ben ! :) --Xi&#39;Reney 08:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Indonesian/asians in australia
i suposs a biges inmigration ever to australia for the hiperpupolated indonnesia and indochine (maybe a war, maybe a ocupation or a reparticion) --Fero 19:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Australian politics
With the situation being so extremely different from real life, I'd think Australia would have a different set of PMs in the years after 1983. Hawke could probably have stayed in power for as long as he wanted, given the emergency and his popularity due to his apparently competent handling of it. He may have retired, but I'd think that his successor would be handpicked by himself, not a rival like Keating. Benkarnell 18:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sudamerica
Hello, good alt history, i am from and living argentine, i dont remember complete that alt history, but i suposs, around 1995-2000 brazil (portugues languaje) must be in peace with the spanish natios of S america, but is not become a unique nation in that time, and is posible, venezuela still have some territorial dispute with Guyana, habitable territory is small every meter maders, venezuela maybe invade Guyana. Falckland/malvinas islas have some poblation in 1982 when was "invaded for Argentine army", what happend to then in 1983, was nuked to? A question can i write some detalles directly in he timeline? of course the autor have law to clear everthnig i do. is this a open timeline?. and a idea for the maps click here that is a map of the world after a nuclear war in 2010 or around, you can see holes for where was nuked cities, think about and good look. any awnser is welcome--Fero 04:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey fero! of course you can freely edit the timeline!! Did the same thing myself with this ATL in the beginning. And because of the yesterday changes in Wordl Countries a lot more things will have to be added and adjusted in timeline. also thinking about making a short and a detailed TL as the TL is becoming quite large and needs restructuring. So feel free to edit!

Map of nuked places: thinking about a map showing important nuked cities/sites/memorials (Sth. like a "Disaster & Consequence")... something for the near future after tl is fixed a bit. -- Xi&#39;Reney 08:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Comunist are most that USSR
Comunist pact maybe all of them was nuked for USA in 1983, they are not just USSR--Fero 04:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

=Major timeline revision=

I have revised and deeply modified the timeline to include recent changes and clean up a little. This will continue in more details consecutively. Next steps -which need everones help if possible!:):
 * 1) I will work on a simple overview timetable (only headlines, no that detailed text).
 * 2) Country Profiles need to be aligned and details need to be filled up
 * 3) World Map Update to include various changes
 * 4) a general setup for the situation in India
 * 5) a more detailed description worked out for South America.

This will be the major changes for tonight..) Any comments for the new TL are welcome !!--Xi&#39;Reney 20:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Argentine-Uruguay Union
Name of country is a little hard and long and spanish/english, can we just made in Argentina(1983: Doomsday) and in few days change page name? i like short name to pages (Nein, UKend, No Destiny) American Republic Union(1983: Doomsday) is not definitie yet, for that i wan write just in Argentine.



base, after doomday, heavy migratios of brazilians to suoth brazil make Uruguayan fear, military autority of Uruguay come to Buenos Aires for help, that is acepted with conditios, new flags, new name to the country, military governet of uruguay get down and election come, new democratic preident of uruguay become vice-president of Republica Americana Unida, in some way brazilian relation not get sow hard, some year after, Paraguay become peacefull a territory of RAU. Can i write that?, of course anyboby can edit that country --Fero 23:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * fero, just go ahead and write that:) that sounds quite interesting scenario. just use argentina for now. will see about names later.Xi&#39;Reney 06:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

some more ideas
first, i don`t read yours last edition in the timeline yet, but maybe you can add some ideas more, havy migration to Colombia from Central America, president Belisario Betancur (1982–1986 git Citizenship bt fight against Guerrillas in the Colombian Armed Conflict if someone of that New Citizen if find in the guerrilla band


 * Well. After missing Colombia in the list of South American countries, I begin first commenting here and then adding directly to the ATL.
 * Guerrillas in Colombia were really a minor concern up to mid 1990's, when the FARC moved from a slim support by the Warsaw pact and little extorsion to a full kidnapping industry and drug dealing taxes and even to full drug dealing. So in the ATL, the world would have been pretty much mess up with no Warsaw Pact to support comunist guerrillas in South and Central America and nobody paying big dollars for consuming cocain (and later Colombian heroine), on the other hand, the Colombian constitutional army would not have the support of the USA.  Anyhow, I think that the situation would be better for the constitutional forces, who in the following years would be less prone to concerns about human rights.
 * Economically, Colombia will be severly hurt. Most incomes come from selling raw mining products and harvested crops to first world countries.  Most investments come from first world countries.  Now there are no markets or source of capital goods.  However trading to Venezuela and Ecuador is important, trading to most of South America is still slim (and by 1983 the situation was worst).  Most manufactured goods that Colombia can ofer would also be offered by Brazil.
 * But this situation would be similar to the other countries, so overall, Colombi is not in a worst situation than their neighbors.
 * So in this new world order, communist guerrillas (who by 1983 were in conversations with Betancout's government) are more likely to actually negotiate, and the constitutional army might be less prone to sabotage the negotiations.
 * On the other hand the guerrillas might thing thay they now have a chance and the military might thing that the guerrillas might have a chance unless a dirty war is engaged.
 * I do not see Colombia engaging in international conflicts, nor Venezuela or other Southamerican power attempting to invade Colombia, except for minor border ajustments (i.e. Sandinist Nicaragua attempting to take San Andres, or Venezuela ensuring that Gulf of Venezuela be an internal lake for them). Nor I can think in a scenario by which by 1983 and onwards the guerrillas could manage to dismember the country.  Pretty much Colombia would survive if not directly hit by bombings or fall-out.
 * --Carlos Th (talk) 23:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)