User talk:Pirate

It would actually conform with our Rules to have the pages be listed as Invasion (Morgen Die Ganse Welt), usw. If you could move them to that format, it would be a great help.

Thanks! Louisiannan 16:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC) (The Management)

morgen die ganze Welt
I don't mind moving the whole scenario but there is a good reason for "Morgen die ganse Welt". The title refers to a Nazi marching song that goes "Today Germany belongs to us and tomorrow the whole world." I think the current title is more descriptive than "Invasion." Am I breaking some rule with the present title? --Pirate 09:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Strictly speaking, each page should have a title like this -

>Nameofpage (Timeline)

To make it like this, look up the templates, so you could make links like this -

>

Read Conventions in use in this wiki for the full story. --Sikulu 13:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, perhaps you didn't quite get the argument. It should look more like this:

>

That way, its easier to write (and remember). --Sikulu 13:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

deletion
If you want to delete a page, you can simply remove all the content and put "delete" on it. That should make things clear enough.--Max Sinister 10:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

format
I think I'll stick with the present format. It seems to conform to the wiki standard. --Pirate 06:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Orbis Romanum
Don't forget to categorise your Orbis Romanum pages. (Looking forward to it, by the way.) --Sikulu 13:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I will. Mind the spelling mistake: everything had to move to "Orbis Romanum"


 * You maybe shouldn't categorize every page under timelines - it clutters the TL, and people won't find it there. Why don't you create your own category for it?--Max Sinister 14:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I'm Yunzhong, from the Novelas/fiction wiki. Our wiki accepts nearly all kinds of fiction content. If you have works on this site that would do better incorporated in Novelas, please reply at my user page there. If you would like to contribute, then by all means please do. Thank you. Yunzhong Hou 04:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Creating a custom category: Thanks! Sounds like a good idea. I will look into it.

morgen die ganze Welt Needs more maps, especially for the invasion of britain and the operations after it. sometimes you wonder where the heck many of these places are!

That's a good idea! Thanks for the tip Pirate 07:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

my name is Oronos I would like to say that hitler would provide the japanese with nuclear weapons in order to get a better peace deal and at the same time hurt america more

Hitler is an American
could you help me in Hitler is an American---Version 1, specifically the post war world up to the present day? Buk5 11:54, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Let's have a look-see Pirate 12:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

War On Terror
Pirate, would you imagine a war on Terror like OTL after the cold war in Morgen die ganze welt? Buk5 21:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello Buk5. It's an interesting thought. The situation is completely different. Two superpowers are in a cold war that could go on indefinitely. They would start to copy each other's methods. State sponsored terrorism would be a good way to have a go at each other. Some terrorism will always go on in Russia which could be sponsored by the US. Latin countries like Mexico could model themselves on Spain and support terrorism against the US. This would be in secret because countries openly terrorist would probably be wiped off the map. There is no pampering of terrorists in a Nazi world. There would be an enormous expansion into space, and terrorism would follow there too. Muslims would be confined to their own countries and play no part in terrorism. Things to ponder are the effects of ABC terrorism and the start of the third world war because of terrorism.Pirate 06:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

IO have also begun a cold war between teh EU and OAS. what do you think? Buk5 06:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC) OK, I had a look. There are many possibilities. By this time the space race between USA and Axis would have resulted in permanent bases on the Moon and Mars and in Earth orbit. Terrorists could do heavy damage in space, de-orbit space stations for instance. The Axis might have no compunctions about using atom bombs on terrorists. Therefore the terrorists would have to be very strong, maybe including all Arab and African countries and all religious fundamentalists everywhere. Pirate 17:57, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, i have left the framework for the Cold war between Europe and the Americas. It is in your hands now. Buk5 18:27, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

map
It is a Work in Progress.



What do you think? let me know? Buk5 18:43, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Nice work. You put a lot of effort in that map. Here are some thoughts. All Germanic language countries (including Holland and Flanders and part of France) should be incorporated into a "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (BRD) similar to the USA. Europe can be part of the "National Sozialistische Union" (NSU) with the BRD the only country with veto powers. South Africa would sooner or later become a member. Most of Africa would be in the sphere of influence of the NSU. Nazi ideology strongly supports health and nature, so maybe central Africa can become a giant nature reserve. The USA would try very hard to keep bases in Greenland. By the way, Nazi color is brown. It would be better to color the Nazi countries brown. This is a good setup for terrorism. Both superpowers would be after the oil of the Middle East. Trouble is guaranteed. I am polishing the 1944-1946 era at the moment, making it as plausible as possible. Pirate

I have made some annotations (including non-EU German allies and Non-OAS American allies. What do you think?  Let me know. Buk5 08:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

WOW that was fast. Australia would probably be part of the OAS. The Phillipines should probably be in the US sphere of influence. Liberia in Africa is traditionally pro US and maybe some of its neighbors. The superpowers need some low grade wars to test their latest weapons. So I would suggest to make Ethiopia, Somalia and Kenya pro US. Japan would be forced to change sides in 1948 and would be likely to be on the US side for a long time. Thanks for your contributions. Pirate 15:30, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

duly noted. Several things:

1. Would the USA admit the Philippines to the Union due to the extended Pacific War and the Cold war, or grant them independence?

2. Would India try to kick off a Non-Aligned Movement like OTL?

3. What role would the defeated USSR play?

Let me know. Buk5 15:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

1. The Phillipines were occupied in 1944-1945. The USA would keep some bases there just to keep the Nazis out. The country itself would be independent. 2. India has to have a civil war because of the Hindu/Muslim mix. Other Muslim countries will intervene and the US/British troops still present will have to choose sides. Maybe India will eventually start a Non-Aligned Movement to prevent similar wars (There is no U.N. in the timeline). 3. The USSR is out of the count for 25 years. Population is 70 million in 1948, with a shortage of men. Their best bet is to throw in their lot with Mao Tse Tung and maybe gain control of China. I have to think about it.

Endgame
Pirate, i have uncluded a section called endgame. What do you think will happen? Buk5 20:27, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello Buk5. Cancer would increase everywhere, not only in Germany. In Germany there would be emphasis on health leading to a ban on tobacco. Professor Schockley the inventor of the transistor would defect to Germany, leading to better computers and the search for artificial intelligence. There would be a race for the hydrogen bomb. Once both sides have it a cold war must begin. This cold war would be more technological and about 40% of GNP would be spent on new technology. This would speed up the rate of technological development by 100%. Moonlanding in 1955 or so. Mars mission by 1958. Without the UNO there would be no small wars. Disobedient Allies would be destroyed. Maybe Africa can become a large nature reserve where tired Nazis go to relax. Enemies eventually start to imitate each other. Black right movements in the US would risk being banished to Africa.

So it's between North and South America against a Fascist Europe/Afica. BTW,i included a bit where rommel fled the German reich and ended up a Colombian citizen. what do you think?

BTW, this is getting really really Draka. Buk5 21:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Rommel has family in Germany. They are hostages. He can't escape. Curious - what is Draka? An optical cable? A Viking longship?

Well about the Draka, that refers to the ASB series by SM Stirling where South Africa conquers the world. Buk5 21:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

And About Rommel: he lost the civil war, and had to flee. He would certainly not get entry into the US, but Colombia, Venezuela or Chile would be where he spends the rest of his days. Buk5 21:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Quite so. Many Germans moved to Argentina after the war, including Kurt Tank, the designer of Focke Wulf. If enough Germans went there Argentina could become a superpower.Pirate 22:11, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

So, will the cold war be bewtween the Americas and Europe? Buk5 22:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Allies can be used to test new weapons like in Korea and Vietnam.Pirate 22:20, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

And the US has complete control of North and South America? Buk5 22:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Well,yes. The US needs South America for oil and minerals. Canada would be forced to become part of the US. Both superpowers are self-sufficient. Brains are more important than territory. Both sides will go after the most intelligent people. Espionage becomes a big factor. Unexpected persons like Von Braun and Einstein may defect.Pirate 22:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

So, Who won the civil War? Rommel, Himmler, Goring? Buk5 22:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I want to return to that and make it plausible. Have to look up history first. It would probably go like this. Goering would become chancellor of the Reich as he was Hitler's favorite. Goering would be pressurized by his brother to be more lenient to Jews. Himmler would start a rebellion in protest using the SS. He can only win if he controls the army. One important factor is that soldiers had to swear allegiance to Hitler, not Germany. With Hitler dead soldiers are confused and will tend to place their allegiance with the generals. Therefore Himmler must imprison important generals like Rommel, Guderian, Milch, Kesselring, Doenitz using the Gestapo. He could also sent the Gestapo after their families to keep them hostage. Shrewd Goering may realize this and warn the generals, placing them in his camp. Himmler is militarily strong in Germany and can quickly take over big cities like Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Munich. Rommel is the only general with significant forces available, the others are fighting on various fronts. Goering can assist Rommel by letting the Luftwaffe transport Ramcke parachute division and heavy armor to Berlin where Himmler thinks he is safe in the Hitler bunker.

Well, Merry christmas anyway.

BTW, what would the cold war look like. Oh Einstein would NEVER defect (Judaism and his hatred of Nazism). Buk5 09:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Xmas. Cold war would not be based on territory. No UNO, therefore it is not necessary to lobby for votes in the UNO. There would be a race to the moon and the planets. Technology is most important. Spies would try to get scientists to defect. The Axis would be interested in countries that have uranium and thorium deposits. The US would concentrate on oil producing countries. Limited wars using proxies could be fought.

How About we could work on it together. But here are some ideas:

1. The Americas liberalises for Homosexuals and Blacks because of the nazis being homophobic and Racist

2. There could be vast immigration of Slavs to America as well as Asian Jews

3. China be the wild card in all of this (remember Napoleon's words: "when china wakes up, the whole world will be shaken".  Throw in India.

4. There could be proxy wars across Afro-Eurasia, with perpetual war between Vietnam (a Staunch US ally) and Fascist Siam.

5. The european powers retain most of their colonies

6. The USA having the lead in computers and physics. Perhaps Microsoft could become far richer. They could also develop viruses against von braun stations.

Buk5 09:56, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Finalizing map


It is in its final Stages. What do you think? Buk5 14:30, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Map looks impressive. Take into account a Nazi superpower would be twice as efficient as the Soviet Union. The population would be about double. Priorities would be different. We are already working together. I will suggest changes later. I am updating some other timelines too. Takes time. 1. The Americas liberalises for Homosexuals and Blacks because of the nazis being homophobic and Racist Yes. Nazi agents and spies would be used to accomplish this. It's the cheapest way to weaken the USA.

2. There could be vast immigration of Slavs to America as well as Asian Jews If practically possible.

3. China be the wild card in all of this (remember Napoleon's words: "when china wakes up, the whole world will be shaken".  Throw in India. China has been peaceful for thousands of years. That's not sleep - it's coma. China is also isolationist. However if the population explodes they would be looking for food anywhere. India has a large Muslim population - there is no Pakistan. Muslims are eager to start a civil war with the Hindus.

4. There could be proxy wars across Afro-Eurasia, with perpetual war between Vietnam (a Staunch US ally) and Fascist Siam. Yes. Congo too where there are uranium mines. Wars in the Far East would be about opium

5. The european powers retain most of their colonies I'm not sure what would happen to the colonies. Hitler was satisfied with the way the English were running colonies. He even offered military support to keep inferior people in place. His successors could give England limited autonomy and let it administrate colonies. This is great for starting wars. The USA would promise colonies independence and military aid. Rebellions would flare up and be ruthlessly and costly suppressed. Keeps world population down too. France was already in charge of colonies in Africa.

6. The USA having the lead in computers and physics. Perhaps Microsoft could become far richer. They could also develop viruses against von braun stations. Unrealistic. Germany was more advanced in computers than the USA. Conrad Zuse had a Z3 computer running in 1941. He developed the first computer language (plankalkuel) before FORTRAN was designed. And that under difficult conditions including bombing. With financial support he would have improved the Z4 to be one generation ahead of ENIAC before ENIAC was built. The USA got the benefit of Jewish scientist escaping the Nazis. Without attracting more scientists from Europe they would not keep a lead in physics. In fact the USA would eventually lose scientists to Germany. The Soviet Union managed to make scientists defect with fewer incentives than Germany could offer. Pirate 14:39, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

So who would win the Cold War? Buk5 15:23, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

And what happens to Alan Turing? Buk5 15:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Q's for MDGW
1. Who controls the balance of power in this cold War?

2. What role would Korea, China, Indochina, Japan, Philippines play?

3. Would All of North America be annexed to the USA

4. What happens to Iceland?

5. Would germany rule the world?

6. Would the USA have the lead in robotics?

7. What would happen to Switzerland?

8. Would you expect someone like Reagan to become president (Goldwater, Reagan etc.)?

9. What would Latin America look like?

That is all. Buk5 15:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

/*******************************************************************/ /************  Pirate 15:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC) /*******************************************************************/

Remember I'm not always on line.

1. Who controls the balance of power in this cold War? A balance of power is inherently not under control. By 1950 the USA and EU (European Union) are self-sufficient, not looking for minerals. Except: The USA will soon be looking for oil in the Middle East. The EU is not interested in public opinion and will look for uranium in Congo and the USSR for nuclear power and nuclear spaceships.

2. What role would Korea, China, Indochina, Japan, Philippines play? Japan becomes pacifistic and prosecutes war criminals - they have many. Mao Tse Tung will be supported by the USSR and become communist after a civil war. The USSR would build up China's economy hoping to use Chinese masses in future wars Korea, Indochina and Philippines are independent. The USSR would try to subvert them to communism. The USA still sees the USSR as an ally, so can't stop this process.

3. Would All of North America be annexed to the USA. I think so.

4. What happens to Iceland? Iceland is on the frontline. The same place that Cuba had in our timeline. USA bases in Iceland and the EU threatening war and sabotaging, maybe isloating with U-boats.

5. Would germany rule the world? Germany / EU is not interested in ruling the USA. Hitler made that clear. This scenario could investigate what happens if the USA becomes more Hispanic and the EU more white. But it needs some seious thought.

6. Would the USA have the lead in robotics? Possibly - the USA is interested in efficiency. The EU would be more interested in artificial intelligence, a byproduct of German interest in philosophy.

7. What would happen to Switzerland? Same as our timeline. Full of money from Nazis and politicians.

8. Would you expect someone like Reagan to become president (Goldwater, Reagan etc.)? The USA woul have to be militaristic. Eisenhower would be in line for presidency and maybe other generals like MacArthur (who likes atom bombing anybody)

9. What would Latin America look like? Alliance with USA, willing or not. USA would become more Hispanic because of treaties. Maybe Mexico would be annexed (peacefully) since they have oil.

Note that they may not be enough wars going on to allow superpowers to waste money. The best solution is to invest money in space programs and really big programs like giant monorails, bridges, tunnels or even a space elevator.

A few more:

1. What happens to Juan Peron?

2. How can the USSR play a role if it is reduced to Central asia and Siberia?

3. Would Japan be a technological powerhouse?

4. Would Iceland fall under US administration like in the Worldwar series?

5. What role will Joe McCarthy play?

6. Would the Germans force neutrality on the Soviets?

7. Could the US stop Mao Tse Tung and support Chang Kai Sheik?

8. Do millions of Slavs and the remnants of European Jewry flee to North America?

9. What happens to the Catholic church?

10. How many states would there be in the USA in total, with all of North America annexed?

= Pirate 12:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC) = Keep in mind I don't have all the answers. 1. What happens to Juan Peron? He could play the part Fidel Castro plays in OTL. Argentine borders would be guaranteed by the NAZI world. Argentine could try to destabilize the region. There would be a lot of secret agent stuff.

2. How can the USSR play a role if it is reduced to Central asia and Siberia? Allied to the USA. Part of the cold war. But pursuing a secret agenda of spreading communism.

3. Would Japan be a technological powerhouse? Yes. Totally committed to the USA. Japan was always looking for a Western Ally.

4. Would Iceland fall under US administration like in the Worldwar series? Yes. The USA should hold a (rigged) referendum make Iceland a USA state.

5. What role will Joe McCarthy play? Rabid anti-Nazi of course. Finding spies everywhere and putting people in jail on suspicion.

6. Would the Germans force neutrality on the Soviets? They would conclude a gentleman's agreement with the USA which keeps the Soviets in the Allied camp in return for a free hand in Argentina. This is similar to what happened in Greece in OTL.

7. Could the US stop Mao Tse Tung and support Chang Kai Sheik? Manchuria is occupied by the USA after Japan is defeated, so Mao does not have a powerbase. The USA ould help Chang but at the same time try to start negotiation like in Korea in OTL. China could divide in two.

8. Do millions of Slavs and the remnants of European Jewry flee to North America? Jews in the USA would certainly sponsor remaining Jews in Europe to come over. The most enterprising Slavs would also flee through the iron curtain in Siberia.

9. What happens to the Catholic church? Very adaptable. The next pope will be appointed by Mussolini. Or maybe the Germans insist on a German pope. However it is considered indelicate for a member of the Nazi party to support religion.

10. How many states would there be in the USA in total, with all of North America annexed? 92. + Canada, Mexico, Iceland