Indian League (Principia Moderni III Map Game)

The Indian League is a political and military alliance between the free states of the lands of India. It was created in response to foreign aggression claiming Indian lands, and is specifically designed to oppose foreign aggression against any nations of India. It was first formally recognized as a political organization in the Treaty of Delhi.

History


A map by EplicOco and labelled by HeiligReich

Members

 * Bengal
 * Bastar
 * Vijaynagar
 * Khandesh
 * Malwa
 * Mewar
 * Sindh
 * Dhundhar
 * Marwar
 * Gwailor - User:HeiligReich (talk)
 * Dhundhra
 * Kathaiwar
 * Venad
 * Orissa
 * Kamarumpa
 * Andamana
 * Ahom

The Free Travel of Merchants
It has come to the attention of the Bengali Sultan that trade restrictions still exist between member states of the Indian League. We unite to oust foreign invaders, yet we still act as though we ourselves are the enemy? In order to be militarily strong against our enemies, our economies must have the ability to support the combined might of India. That is why I am proposing that we remove the trade barriers between our nations and allow each of our nations merchants to travel across India to strengthen our economics, share ideas, and promote the unity of a common people.

Member Decisions:
 * Bengal: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Gondwana : Disagree
 * Bastar :Agree
 * Vijaynagar :Disagree
 * Khandesh :Disagree
 * Malwa : Disagree
 * Merwar:Agree
 * G ujarat: Disagree
 * Dhundhar: Disagree
 * Marwar: Agree
 * Gwailor: Agree
 * Dhundhra: Disagree
 * Kathaiwar : Agree
 * Venad:Disagree
 * Orissa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Kamarumpa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Andamana: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)

9/8 Motion passed by Slight Majority:

Siege Guns
During our war with the Mughal Empire, it has been noted that during our sieges of several walled cities that our simple and primitive cannons took far too long to break the walls that served a purpose to keep our brothers under Mughal rule. This is why we are proposing that several states send their best and their brightest to an undetermined location to develop a cannon with the power to destroy walls in a single shot, lest we decide that it is cheaper to allow the defenders time to prepare their defense against the might of India.

Member Decisions:
 * Bengal: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Gondwana : Agree
 * Bastar :Agree
 * Vijaynagar :Agree
 * Khandesh :Agree
 * Malwa : Disgree
 * Merwar:Agree
 * G ujarat: Disagree
 * Dhundhar: Agree
 * Marwar: Agree
 * Gwailor: Agree
 * Dhundhra: Disagree
 * Kathaiwar : Agree
 * Venad:Agree
 * Orissa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Kamarumpa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Andamana: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)

​Domestic belligerance and An Upset To The Balance Of Power
Recently, the Kingdom of Gwailor has declared war upon the a fellow League member, Merwar. The Kingdom's reasoning, is to unite the Hindus against some imaginative authority. Does it wish to unite the Hindus by killing them? The League has been created to protect against foreign aggression, but it is time we look towards domestic aggression. To allow the League to function, we must not war against each other, lest we leave ourselves open to the new threats such as those from the land of Europe. We are not petty kingdoms who fight for power and control, no, we are a united people who fight for our collective interests and we will not tolerate the belligerance of one kingdom against all its brothers. For these reasons, the Sultan of Bengal proposes that the League immediately condemn and threaten with force the Kingdom of Gwailor, in order to stop it, for attacking a fellow League member and killing the people of India, not unlike the Mughal threat that this League was originally created to stop. This proposal also proposes to from henceforth ban upon the threat of war all domestic war against our brothers, and to stop petty feuds from destroying the unity of the Indian peoples.

Member Decisions: '''Result: 16 out of 19 states agree to intervene on behalf of Merwar and declare that if Gwalior does not cease their belligerance against their brothers, they will be forced to end their belligerance. Also, these 16 states and a majority of the League agrees to not war against once another to preserve the strength of India and unify against petty domestic disputes over power and land.'''
 * Bengal: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Gondwana : Agree
 * Bastar :Agree
 * Vijaynagar :Agree
 * Khandesh :Agree
 * Malwa :Agree
 * Merwar:Agree
 * Gujarat: Agree
 * Dhundhar: Disagree
 * Marwar: Agree
 * Gwailor:
 * Dhundhra: Agree
 * Kathaiwar : Disagree
 * Venad: Agree
 * Bahamani:Agree
 * Jaunpur:Agree
 * Orissa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Kamarumpa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
 * Andamana: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)

​A Balance Of Power
The Indian League had been formed to protect India from any sort of foreign invasion.. The Treaty of Delhi had been signed so the various Indian states could protect their sovereignty and remain independent. But the war against the Timurids had itself resulted in places like Vijaynagar and Delhi left in a poor condition, Mewar (NOT MERWAR) near collapse and Bengal achieve a state of regional power. Bengal was able to subsequently spread its influence and vassalization numerous Indian states despite the Treaty of Delhi having guaranteed the independence of each and every Indian state. The gap between the richer and poorer states of India has become too much and an agreement must be signed in which the 19 states of India shall agree to share their resources for a low price as well as their weaponry so that the other states of India too reach an equal status. An Indian state which has developed gunpowder based weaponry ought to share it with the rest of the Indian States and Indian states with access to the sea must similarly cede a small territory of theirs to the landlocked states of India. We must act as a family and help each other to protect India's sovereignty. Those whites have already spotted a treasure chest called India and our unity is the lock that'll prevent any foreign from exploiting our resources

BTW I got rid of the states that have no place in the map or never existed. Also, Kathiawar is part of Gujrat.. In the map they are united so make up your mind

'''Listen bud, you don't know a thing about PM3 India do you? Bengal hasn't been keeping gunpowder a secret because all Indian states know about. Bengal hasn't been hiding the secrets of arquebus's (Nobody has muskets yet, keep that in mind) because the free travel of merchants and Bengal lowering trade taxes has made the arquebus technology and invention itself accessable by all of India. Vijaynagar is not in poor condition, it recovered, and if you read a single one of my turns, you would understand that I have been aiding Bahamani, Jaunpur and Delhi since the end of the war. Bengal hasn't vassalized a SINGLE Indian state since the end of the war. Orissa was before that and was from a long standing history of relations, and Garjat was from a royal marriage and inheriting the nation. This notion that all Indian states except for you and Bengal are poverty stricken is an absolute insult to the nations that haven't been subject to anything that would induce poverty. Finally, make up your mind. You say that Delhi has been annexed by the Mughals for so long, yet you specifically mentioned them in this argument. You also say that Kathiawar is part of Gujrat, yet this, and this prove they are not. I have no idea what map you are looking at, but you need to be looking at the PM3 map. Basically, you have a proposal on complete lies, and if anything the League should reprimand you for attemption to divide it along the lines of Muslim and Hindu rivalries.'''

1) I bought muskets 2) yeah sorry made some mistakes about the maps and I made that new map. Also, I saw the official PM3 India Map today so.. 3) when I was talking about vijaynagar and all, I was not referring to present but rather the next few years following the Timurid invasion 4) I have not been inciting rivalry between Muslims and Hindus NO. That was old me. You know what? The proposal was not about Bengal at all. It was about sharing our resources like we are a single nation and sharing every bit of weaponry we gain access to.

OCC: If we could act like a single nation in the League, I'd have every single nation under Bengal, but there's literally no true unification of India until the 1800s. RPC or whateves: So, it's about sharing resources and every bit of weaponry we get asked to? Kind of like LETTING MERCHANTS TRAVEL FREELY TO EACH OTHERS NATIONS SO RESOURCES FLOW WITH EASE AS WELL AS TECHNOLOGY?

Ok how about we finally stop arguing? We're doing the opposite of what the Treaty of Delhi stated.

Member Decisions: Result: ?
 * Bengal: Disagree
 * Gondwana :
 * Bastar:
 * Vijaynagar:
 * Khandesh:
 * Malwa:
 * Mewar:
 * Gujarat:
 * Dhundhar:
 * Gwailor: Agree
 * Kathaiwar:
 * Venad:
 * Bahamani:
 * Jaunpur:
 * Orissa: Disagree
 * Kamarumpa: Disagree
 * Andamana: Disagree
 * Marwar:

In The Common Interest of Sovereignity
Many years ago, we fought a great and glorious war against the Mughal invaders that threatened the whole of India. Not only did we prove that as one people, we are mighty, but we also proved that the only tolerable influence of Indian states were the Indian states themselves. With current diplomatic changes in the way some Indian nations formerly conducted themselves, it has become apparent, that while our enemy was militarily defeated, it diplomatically was not. As we speak, the Mughal Empire and the Raja of Gwalior have been conspiring to bring forth Mughal influence back into India. The same Raja that dreamed of uniting all of the Hindu's, destroying the unity of the League, and exterminating all Muslims is now allied with their "brother" that is the Mughals. If Mughal influence can reach so far into the heart of a nation that once fought bravely for his Indian brothers, then what is to say of the former Mughal lands, or Indian states beside the Mughal border? We did not sacrifice our brothers, our fathers, and our children to push back a threat just to give it the chance to pry its fingers back into our political courts and diplomatically enslave us just as the Timurids did with our still imprisoned brothers. This why the Sultan of Bengal has proposed to following to the Indian League in order to preserve the sovereignity of smaller border states more suceseptible to influence, and to end a threat as soon as it begins: Member Decisions:
 * All Indian nations will halt their trade with the Mughal Empire. The Free Travel of Merchants proposal has ensured that all Indian nations will have access to the sea and each others nations. It should be noted that landlocked nations are able to send merchants to other Indian nations with ports and still reap the economic benefits.
 * All Indian nations will sever diplomatic ties with the Mughal Empire. Why must we ally with a nation we fought no more than 30 years ago in order to preserve ourselves, if we are to simply allow them back in as if they never slaughtered the people of Delhi, of Bahamani, of Venad, and of Vijayanagar?
 * All Indian nations will renouce any history of dealing with the Mughal Empire. We cannot make a proposal for the present situation and ignore future implications. Any nation that has formerly allied with the Mughal Empire, formerly traded with them, formerly/currently married them royally, or formerly/currently has their throne in the Mughal Empire line of succession shall renounce these ties as never having existed.

Raja Vikram: Times have changed and the Mughals are no longer the same. To compare the current Mughal leader to the Timurids is as foolish as one could be. Each person has their own soul, mind, thought... They do not pass their will onto the next person. This is not some sort of a spirit world, this is reality. If you consider the Timurids and Mughals virtually the same, than may I remind you that Timur destroyed India on the excuse of waging Jihad. Does that mean all Muslims are guilty of Timurids crime? Or does that mean the innocence of all the Muslims would be enough to forgive Timur as well? It means nothing. Timur was guilty but his successors are not. Yes, we fought against Mughals but if we continue to follow this policy of isolation, we will certainly fall. Good relations with the Mughals is what will benefit the Indian League. Also, I'll make it clear for you once and for all.... I never wanted to exterminate the Muslins. If you could even once even once get some evidence regarding me conspiring to exterminate the Muslims, I shall abdicate the throne

Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: To compare the vassalizing process of conquering India through diplomacy by the Mughals to the vassalizing process of conquering India through diplomacy is foolish? And yes everone has their own soul, mind, and thought, but can a person not be the same? I was taught by the Hindu scholars of Bengal on the beliefs of Hinduists such as yourself, and that one of the several reasons for reincarnation would be that a person, such as Draka (Or whoever it was), dies without complishing their sadhana (goal), conquering India, and are given a second chance to achieve their goals, entirely opening up the possibility that within the Hindu faith, the ruler of the Mughal Empire is nothing more than the reincarnated Draka, systematically reincarnating to achieve one singular sadhana. Also, in your own faith, this is a spirited world, as described by Adi Shankara, who described this world not as reality, but as fleeting and illusionary. To speak against your own religious ideals is one of herasy, and it is even worse to be corrected by one of a differing faith. May I also tell you that Timur waged his first war against India in Delhi. Timur was a muslim, and Delhi was an Islamic state. His war was not of Jihad against his own faith, but one of greed and lust for power that grew stronger with each conquest, filling himself with the gold of India, for he certainly was no great instructor of Islam, seeking to force it upon all. Rather, he was the leader of Mongolians, a society built upon the conquest of others, not religious morality. This assumption that all Muslims are guilty of Timur's crimes is as foolish as one could be. In your own words, against your own faith, "Each person has their own soul, mind, thought... They do not pass their will onto the next person." By this wrongly held onto belief, no Muslim could be guilty of Timurs crimes against other Muslims for his lust for riches and land. His successors are guilty of nothing, but their continued policy of stepping into Indian affairs where they have certainly made themselves not welcomed for over 100 years of war and subjugation make them guilty of the same delusions of granduer that Timur held. Finally, this policy is not of isolation. There is a world full of nations such as China, Ayuhutta, Tibet, Alexandria, Yemen, Dai Viet, and the Nēdāralyānḍa (Netherlands) who have not proven themselves prone to warring and subjugating India. This is not for isolation, this is for protection.

OOC: I am not a Hindu so I don't know much about that religion Raja Vikram: The Timurids destroyed India. They plundered our land and left Vijaynagar to rot. The Mughals however established diplomatic relationships with the Indian States, married Prince and Princesses from Kathiawar and Marwar whilst also trading with the Indians. As far as reincarnation is concerned, I believed men who have accomplished nothing else but brought pain to others are not reincarnated once again in the form of a rulers. They are reincarnated as poor weak orphans so they suffer the consequences of their evil actions. As far as Timur waging Jihad is concerned, as I said... He invaded India on the excuse of waging Jihad. He plundered our mother land and committed a genocide against the Hindus. He did not care about the religion practised by the rulers of the Delhi Sultanate, what I am saying is that the people of your religion are used Jihad (Struggle in the way of Allah) to kill the Hindus. Yes, no one but Timur is responsible for his sins and that makes the Mughals completely innocent. The Mughals did not poke their nose into India, it was rather me who visited the Mughals for I wanted an end to hostilities. Who would want to have hostile relations with a nation as large as the Mughals towering over your union of kingdoms. While it is true that we have established good relations with various countries, why must we not do the same with the Mughals? Through the Mughal Empire is the shortest route to the Oirats, Principality of Novgorod, Moskovy, Persia, Oman, Ottoman Empire etc.. Why must we not end this pointless conflict? You mentioned Hinduism.. Now I shall mention Islam for I too had studied it. Islam has no mention if reincarnation thus making your statement of Timur reincarnation as false unless you have given up Islam. Your own Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] and the First 4 Caliphs forgave the Jews on numerous occasions despite the Jews having betrayed the Muslims on three different occasions. In fact, despite the hostility.. The Jews were the first to be informed that they could return to Jerusalem after it was conquered by the Rashidun Caliphate. This was how the Muslims treated the Jews, their enemies and look at yourself and your view if the Mughals. We can't even describe it as a Sunni - Shia rivalry for both you and the Mughals are Sunni. I am afraid, I cannot break my relations with the Mughal for what I am doing is what is best for Indian League

OOC: I know I'm not a member of the League or anything, but I have to say that you're putting much blame on the Mughal Empire, when most of the "atrocities" were commited by the Timurids. Although more or less the same, some points stand. Mirza is half-Indian. His mother comes from Marwar. The Mughals have during their existance not once initiated any kind of assault on any Indian nation, furthermore, they removed the heir of Jaunpur from the throne (remember that in OTL the Jaunpur Sultanate even attacked Bengal). Now as for Mirza being a "reincarnation" of Draka, The Bengals are muslim, since when do they believe in reincarnation. And let's carry on. Mirza has made Hindu the official language of the Mughal Empire. Through recent trade, he's brining European technology to Gwalior, by means of Alexandria. I'm not mentioning the Timurid leaders, but as far as Mirza goes, he's done more for Indian culture than you'd expect. He's spreading the Hindu-speaking area up to Chagatai, he used metablock printing to further Hindu-written literature. Again, I'm no League member, but these points are important. Maybe it's overdoing it, but the Mughals have spread Indian-culture to places it has never been, nor ever will be without them. I rest my case

P.S. Let's not forget that over 30% of the Mughal Empire is of Indian ethnicity. Are you going to break all ties with your brethren just because they're not in "your" India? And let's not forget that nations such as Marwar and Kathiawar are surely going to disagree, because both can inherit the throne. (It's more complicated for Kathiawar, but still possible). And as far as I know, the only atrocities the Timurids actually comitted were against the Vijaynagari, not Bahmani or Venad and definitely Jaunpur.

And Bengal is currently fighting against rebels. Sovereignity, eh? Sky Green 24  08:59, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

OOC: OTL has no place here, for this is ATL. The Mughal Empire is only 30% of Indian ethnicity because of Timurid conquests. It was for the sake of the argument, showing that the Raja did not know of his own religion and arguing along the lines of the Raja's argument's by saying he does not know his own religion and is arguing against it. If I must, I may need to free 30% of my breathen from an oppresive 70% of ruling non-Indians. Also, Bengal isn't fighting against rebels, it's fighting against Ava, a nation not controlled (Yet) by anyone but Ava. Sovereignity for the Indians. The Timurid's killed at least a million in one day in Delhi, plus slaughtered some Timurid rebels in the Indian ethnic area... Also, how did Hindu become the official language of a nation that slaughtered Hindu's to give it a larger Muslim majority without anyone saying "Hey, wait a minute". And the atrocity committed was removing their right to rule themselves. How could it be "my" India? I'm fighting for each nations independence in the wake of Mughal history of superiority, not for my own control of India, unlike someone wants literally their own singular India. Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: The Mughals have established the relations with the Indian states to see it owned by nothing other than themselves. They do not want independent states working together for a common interests and still holding their own titles. The Mughals would do nothing more than put their name across every state in India. They do not care for the sovereign rights of Mewar (Or whatever state the Raja wanted to annex). In fact, before the Indian War, they had Jaunpur and Bahamani under their thumb. Look at India now, each state free and has a ruler of its own that does not have to listen to a supposed more powerful leader and can choose their own destiny. Look at how India would have been, each state a vassal of the Mughal Empire as Jaunpur and Bahamani was before Indian intervention, slowly annexed until the name of these invaders would be synonymus with India. I have not given up Islam, but I was arguing along the lines of your own religion about how your arguments do not match your religion. Muhammad slaughtered over 800 innocent Jews, attacked innocent caravan drivers because they were of Mecca, and executed many in Mecca who insulted him. I will not forgive the people who killed over a million in Delhi in a day, and a million in Vijayanagar in two. What you are doing is best? You will become like the Sultan of Jaunpur or Sultan of Bahamani, a vessel of extenstion of Mughal influence. I do not wish to see India as a collection of vassalized, subservient states, but rather as independent states with their own kingdoms that are allied with other Indian states like themselves to keep their independence against those who wish to make them serve. If we are to speak of even Sunni-Sunni rivalries, must I remind you of your own attempts to control Hinduist Indian nations you have had no single event in history of warring against for the sake of power? I have done far more for the sovereign rights of each Indian nation than the Mughals have done by vassalizing and annexing Indian states. In fact, I believe that if it was not for Bengali-led opposition to Mughal occupation of India, Raja Vikram would not have the chance to speak right now, and would not ever be even able to dream of holding the title of Raja.

Raja Vikram: It is indeed shocking for me to hear someone insult his own religion... The clerics at Bengal certainly will not forgive you for insulting your own Prophet. Nevertheless, it appears to me as though you have no knowledge of your own religion and have come up to try to persuade me to abandon my Mughal allies. Although, it is rare for staunch follower of Hinduism to teach another of Islam, I shall do it anyways for I have given up my previous radical ideologies and wish to have peaceful relationships with every single nation. Your Prophet did not massacre the 800 Jews for no reason. As agreed upon in the charter of Madina, all the tribes would unite to defend Madina if a foreign nation attempted to invade it. The Jews never helped the Muslims but despite this, they were forgiven. When the Jews then started to conspire against the Muslims were they exiled from Madina. First one Jewish tribes betrayed the Muslims then another. Tired of the constant betrayal, when the third Jewish tribe betrayed the Muslims were the men executed, women and children enslaved and land distributed and in fact, this was the punishment for those who break treaties written in the Torah itself. Second of all, the Makkan caravans that were raided actually contained the possessions of the Muslims that had migrated to Madina and the people of Makkah were illegally selling it to Syrians. I do not remember my Muslim teachers teaching me at Gwalior of anything related to executing someone who insulted him. I however do remember forgiving men who attempted to kill him using swords but were unable to... Anyways, it is a shock for the Muslim King of Muslim Bengal spreading Islam to have no knowledge of his very own religion. As far as vassalization is concerned, it is none of your business as to which state the Mughals vassalize for neither does all India belong to you nor has Bengal refrained from vassalizing and committing aggression. Once again, I've given up my ideologies. And the truth be told, I Raja Vikram would've been much more happier under Mughal rule. My rise to power at Gwalior was for the mere reason to protect from being vassalized and annexed by Bengal. India would've indeed reach new heights under the Mughals but what is done is done. The Mughal conquest of India failed but that does not mean that we will break off ties with the Mughals for the Mughals are the only ones that can protect India from the wrath of Bengal.

Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: How sad it is that you think history is nonexistent and incomprehensable for religion. Muhammad had killed the Jews, and Muhammad had silence three men who insulted him. This is not against religious doctrine, for it carries historical evidence. I know my own religion, and I know that there is far more knowledge in understand this history around religion than simply reading the Quran and beliving oneself to be the living embodiment of Islam. Now, what is this notion of Bengal wrath, annexation and vassalization? What state has Bengal taken that is Indian? What has Bengal done that has threatened Gwalior? Was it by defending your sovereign rights we offended you? This notion that Bengal is competing for Indian domination is foolish. Why defend the rights of those to rule themselves if we wish to annex them all? Your logic that Bengal is this warmongering state that is intent on vassalizing and annexing all of India is just simply foolish. Why would we defend the right to independent rule, create an organization to bring India together on the right to independent rule, and then wish to annex them? Now, of course it is our business who the Mughals vassalize and annex. Tell me, do you prefer freedom, or service? All you speak of is prefering to live upon your knees, groveling to the Mughals for their "greatness". The wrath of Bengal is one that pushed the Mughals out of India and preserved each nation. Our actual aggression and wrath has been towards non-Indian states, such as...Nevermind, Bengal has not even waged a war against a non-Indian except for the Mughals. Our wrath is almost non-existent as we peacefully extended the League into Arakan and Kamarumpa without the need for war. The only wrath that exists here, is your own and the Mughals. Go forth, and tell the Indian states of your desire to kiss the feet of the one they defended against for the sake of freedom. Go forth and tell them you wish to serve the one that wished to make us servants. Go forth and tell them that you will die for the Mughals before you die for India. Go forth and tell them that you prefer sand and desert over the lush jungles of India.
 * Bengal: Agree
 * Delhi:
 * Gondwana :
 * Bastar:
 * Vijaynagar:
 * Khandesh:
 * Malwa:
 * Mewar:
 * Gujarat:
 * Dhundhar:
 * Gwailor: Disagree
 * Kathaiwar:
 * Venad:
 * Bahamani:
 * Jaunpur:
 * Orissa: Agree
 * Kamarumpa: Agree
 * Andamana: Agree
 * Marwar:

Result: ?