User talk:NuclearVacuum

Doomsday Advice
Sorry the reply took so long, Nuke - busy time of year, you know?

It's a very feasible idea, I believe. I know it's been talked about before, too.

Essentially, it would be Cape Cod joining Plymouth, and the rest continuing on as the "Outer Lands," correct? Very doable. I would not, however, bet on any of the islands joining Plymouth with the Cape. The Cape has always been a touch odd on there, while the islands made more sense.

Unless you manage to get hold of Arstar, I believe I still have some authority from him for things of his - you've got my go ahead for the Plymouth end and parts of the Outer Lands, though still try for his, and if he refuses, it'd be a "no" overall. Can't see him doing that, however, considering he's always hated Cape Cod being in the Outer Lands.

Past that, I think things devolve on you, Brian, and MasterSanders.

Btw, the correct spot on the DD page would be the section titled "1.1 Countries/Regions/Politics," near the top of the talk page.

Lordganon (talk) 10:53, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket joining Plymouth doesn't really make any sense, Nuke. They have little to nothing in common with it, compared to the rest of the Outer Lands. Cape Cod does, however, have a fair portion in common. That's what all the issues with the state have been about in the past, and I think one of the articles even states that there is a movement on the cape to do just as you're asking. The name of the rest - i.e. without Cape Cod - would continue to be the same.

Note, however, that this would be a modern, ongoing development, not something in the past.

Lordganon (talk) 11:01, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Not "down the toilet" at all, Nuke.

Nuke, the Outer Lands being its current entity, and the squabbles with Plymouth, have been canon for a while - and are referenced in a few spots, far as I remember.

Misspoke slightly when I said "modern" and "ongoing" - last couple of years works well too. As a matter of fact, Plymouth's actions regarding Vermont in March of 2010, when they "requested" the "return" of Vermont's Massachusetts lands to Plymouth, would make more sense had they just had Cape Cod join them.

Given dates of contact, however, any such actions have to be after 2007. The Outer Lands just were not really in touch with anyone prior to then.

As I said, it is a good idea for Cape Cod to do it. The dates just need to "mesh."

Only problem, overall, is a news update Arstar put up on the main page last August, though he never did anything with it, so I figure I can just remove it. Not like his opinion changed, he just decided not to fight anymore over it. The opinions and words on the pages in question did not change, after all.

Lordganon (talk) 05:25, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that is a bit odd that Block never was when the rest were.

By my guesswork, and given the areas of Cape Cod that are part of that area and not under Plymouth authority, Long Island would be dominant, with or without the Cape.

Go with 2009 as a date.

Lordganon (talk) 02:34, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

No, not really a wasteland. It's not all that big of a strike, compared to some, and there would be a ground passage by this point.

Plymouth also controls the very tip of Cape Cod, having taken possession of Provincetown and the Coast Guard station there early on. Elements fleeing Otis made contact with them, even though they fled to Plymouth.

The strike, overall, is basically no problem to any unification.

The map was duplicated by the system when I chose it for a list of images shown when the wiki is featured, etc.

Lordganon (talk) 07:07, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Different sizes - different targets need different scale of attacks, and both parties do only have a limited number of each size.

Don't remember saying that before, but it would not be the case by now - there would indeed be some land access.

It's not really much smaller - by this point, only the base itself would be an area no one could go.

The logic for Provincetown, by and large, is that it is close to Plymouth by water, and would have heard from there before hearing from the county government about the formation of the OL. The survivors from the base heading, in part, to the Coast Guard station there is another part of it.

Up to you as to what to do with the Cape.

Yes, it's a part of the system I did not care for. It should have just let us use images on the wiki instead of making us do what amounted to uploading to their files in addition. At least it doesn't register to the system as copies, I suppose.

Picked that map because it is clean, and shows the concept well. It's also one I'm more or less sure is done.

Don't know about length. My thought really was to have them up there until more obvious edited pictures came up, ala~ confederate planes, etc., minimum, and probably longer.

If you want me to remove it, say the word.

Lordganon (talk) 03:28, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Think of it this way - if a 1 MT nuke, larger than the one used there is likely to have been, detonated on the base, it would have a ring of fires around it that would temporarily block land access. That's about the most that would block a land path, long-term. Have a look at it on this simulator. The area west of Barnstable gets more or less eliminated, but the coastal area would eventually become passable again.

I'd also add to Provincetown that the Otis strike's radiation would have, to some degree, cut off land access to there too.

What can I say, Nuke? You do good maps, lol.

The Doomsday stub template, not the regular stub category markers, goes on any DD stubs. No worries.

Lordganon (talk) 08:13, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

On Otis, nothing larger than maybe 600-700kt in size. You have to add a range beyond what it indicates to take into account the spread of fires in the aftermath as well.

...One is specifically designed for Doomsday articles, the other is not. There's a difference. And as a Doomsday stub, it has to be there, at least for now. Sorry.

That being said, you can have it at the bottom like that.

Lordganon (talk) 09:20, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

If you think that's interesting, try the other simulator and do the largest one - it's an asteroid impact, ala~ the one that killed the dinosaurs. The simulator can also do fallout directions, though only on compass points, and is far worse overall.

Actually, I've got reactors running in a few of my articles, and a few other states are working on bringing more back into running order. In fact, the reopening of Big Rock Point Nuclear Power Plant, in northern Michigan, was a major talking point in the recent Superior election. Rhodope and Transylvania are also looking at restarts on the near-future.

Yes, go for it - them finalizing construction and getting it running certainly is possible. They were designed for the long haul, after all.

Overall, it fits with the timeline too - many areas turned to nuclear power after DD. Far as I know, in fact, it's the biggest source of power for Siberia today, atl.

As to my opinions.... well, there's been a reactor proposed for Northern Alberta, to power the oilsands machinery, for quite some time, and I support it, so....

Lordganon (talk) 06:57, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that asteroid impact is interesting, lol. If only the rest of that simulator was very good...

Would indeed be a lot of possibilities.

Well, by and large, the plants weren't targets. In and itself, the EMP takes them out, and other strikes render them useless, by and large. Most of the ones in mainland Europe, of course, got destroyed by other means, but elsewhere a fair number survived.

Most were shut down, though a few were not, before they could overload. We've kinda left that off to the side, as we've no way to tell for sure exactly which went off.

Nuclear reactors, however, are meant to be quite resistant to damage, EMP, and time. They've lasted the decades much better than any other kind of plant, hydro aside. In many areas, they are the only real power source left, between the plant still standing and stockpiles of fuel, useless for other purposes, still being there. In other countries, getting cut off from the outside world - the Nordic Union being a good example - either entirely, or to some degree, led to them becoming dependent on their nuclear plants for at least a while.

It's led to them getting into use, despite Doomsday. For several countries, it's the only source of power, even today. A few areas that don't have them otl have even built new ones, and others have had them rushed compared to otl, like in the UAR. Others have lasted longer than they lasted before being decommissioned otl - a few in Australia, for instance, probably ran a half-decade or more past those dates from otl.

Odd, but interesting. Look forward to seeing it.

Lordganon (talk) 07:41, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Well, not too rushed, lol. But certainly less humming and hawing about it than otl.

Do as you want with that guy. If I see him doing it I'll take care of it, of course.

Got me as to what the heck Brez was going on about. Haven't talked to him, or anything, and I certainly haven't blocked him.

Lordganon (talk) 01:32, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

You really couldn't have know about the categories bit. No worries. Lordganon (talk) 03:57, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Logical enough for them to expand further west onto the island. Go for it.

Given the size and shape of the Cape, and the strength of the blast, Cape Cod does get unscathed. It's only a direct attack on a single small corner of it.

Odd that no one noticed that typo before you, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 12:08, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Just run with it. It's a tiny detail about your article. No world consequences, etc.

No, you do not need to propose anything if you want to make a template.

Really, so long as it's nothing that could potentially have international implications, don't worry about it.

Way I figure it, since the links to it were removed over the last year (and some) the new one is good - but could you put the "old" version back up in some form?

Lordganon (talk) 01:07, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Works.

Way I figure it, the guy that uploaded it originally did so on purpose, eschewing the other version. So it should stay on here in some form.

Besides, far as I know there's not really any proof the Romans used one or the other.

Lordganon (talk) 02:37, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

English in Cyrillic?
Found this in Ill Bethisad...

http://ib.frath.net/w/English#English_as_a_World_Language

A version of a Cyrillic English alphabet. English in Russian Alaska would both use the North American standard and at the same time, had more native Alaskan and native American borrowings as well as Russian. The folks in IB also made an English Cyrillic alphabet...

Here is the version...

Alternately, they could also use this...

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F

Any opinion?

General tiu (talk) 02:08, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, I have developed my own version of the English Cyrillic alphabet. — Hellerick [[Image:Flag of Divnogorsk.svg|20px]] 03:03, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

This is quite surprising to find in my messages.

Very intriguing idea. I had no idea this was even a possibility. I love IB, and I keep forgetting that Oregon is Russian (more amazed of the "White USSR" and Gorby with a mustache [he's pretty good with Photoshop, I'll give him that]).

As for incorporating this into Russian America, funny you should mention this. However, I was more interested in Alaska and Russia standardizing a latinitsa (Russian Latin alphabet). This is because Alaska would be the only American nation to not use the Latin alphabet, putting more pressure to go in this direction, rather than standardizing an English Cyrillic alphabet. However, I could still see the Russo-Alaskan domination also put pressure on the Anglo-Alaskans that they may indeed Cyrillicize the English alphabet. Though non of these would become official (Russian will still be Cyrillic and English will still be Latin).

Thank you both, this sure made my day. It was sure a brain exercise to read English in Cyrillic (but I did it ^_^). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:02, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Imperial Federation
Like you said at first in that - nationalism would exist, just not like otl.

It'd be more like nationalism existed - though not by that name otl, given the differences - before the revolutions. A much more moderate version of nationalism, more or less.

So, there's still going to be "Canadians" and whatnot - just more moderated versions. Basically, I'd expect most countries would act like most otl Canadians in that sense.

That being said, with nationalism more muted, the idea for imperial federations would be more plausible than it was otl.

The preferred title for Canada otl - rather than not having one, like otl - was "Kingdom of Canada." It was decided not to use it for fear of offending the USA. Silly, but true. With no unified USA, that's not an issue. So, it has Kingdom in the name as a result. Note, as well, that dominion status would be delayed from otl at least a decade. By my guess, this may have been the original intention.

Lordganon (talk) 11:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Warring Discussions.
NuclearVacuum, the photos I added to Two Americas Presidents of CSA, were more accurate than what were there before. Can we talk about this? -- Byzantium Purple

First, thank you BP for your work at an update. However, I am presently caretaker of this time line and it would  have been nice to ask on the talk page (as "Nuke" mentioned on your talk page).

Second, thank you Nuke for looking out for the page. By the time I got the messages that changes had been made, you had taken care of the "problem." I must admit that I went the easy way, chosing the pictures on each of my choices' Wikipedia pages. I will go back and evaluate the pictures now, based on the objections BP brought up. SouthWriter (talk) 03:47, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Otl Presidents in 13 Fallen Stars
Couldn't help seeing the "unknowns" on your list a few days ago - after, of course, having noticed it before and forgotten - and figured I'd have a look.

So....

Hoover - On his father's side, atl western PA, moving there (mostly) from Maryland, with a small contribution from western NC. On his mother's, PA with a small amount of NE, immigrating through Canada. If anything, I figure it'd be PA otl.

Truman - both sides of his family were, prior to moving to Missouri, almost entirely KY and VA. So, Virginia atl.

Eisenhower - May have been born in Texas otl, but his family has very long-standing roots in western PA otl. Would be there atl.

Johnson - Seems that his ancestors moved westwards from Georgia and the Carolinas, only heading to Texas when his grandfather did, moving there from Alabama. Would be Carolina atl.

Ford - Father's family from western PA, very long-standing. Mother's family, mostly from Ohio after moving here from NY and NE, with one Scottish immigrant. If anything, would be PA atl.

Reagan - Both sides of his family were from Illinois, with their ancestors having moved there from the British Isles through Canada. Canada atl would be very likely.

Clinton - Family on both sides from atl Carolina. More or less every state. both atl and otl. Would be from there, then.

Obama - his mother's family seems to have been largely Virginian in origin, but definitively with a bit from all the colonies. Would be, then, Virginia if anything.

Hope that's helpful to you.

Lordganon (talk) 11:40, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Good researcher, is all. Aside from Johnson, all of those presidents have reasonable trees out there - just have to find them.

Virginia would probably get rid of it not from from its otl abolition in the US. maybe a decade later, at most.

Carolina... not so good. They'd probably bow to pressure around the same time as Brazil.

Read through your "muse" on the subject, with regards to Lincoln and Virginia. Lincoln's family would likely have moved to Virginian territories west of Kentucky. I'd actually bet on a more abolitionist - someone with Lincoln's views, or nearly so, and he was very moderate on the concept, remember - president getting elected and a pro-slavery revolt happening. Lee and many Virginians from even otl Virginia would stick with the government, and Lee putting down the revolt would make sense. Losers would flee into Carolina. Would get Lee the presidency. The areas in question, by and large, would be east of the mountains, south of Richmond, and west of Norfolk, with scattered groups elsewhere.

Apologies about missing the last post. You called it, basically - too many people posting while I was busy and I missed one. Shame it was actually one I'd have enjoyed dealing with.

Yes, most wanted Canada to be actually named the Kingdom of Canada. There was less support for that idea in the other dominions, but I've no doubt that with a Canadian precedent, they'd be named that too, since that is how it more or less was otl. Would be much the same in Spanish colonies, though not for the same reasons - would be from the top, rather than the bottom, in that case.

Your idea is more or less equal to the one extreme of suggestions about what such a thing would be. But it's really not that workable - areas would feel shortchanged, and it's be too much of a geographic area, spread-wise, with different concerns.

Something akin to what they've been trying to get the EU to become - i.e. states still separate, but with an overarching government responsible in some areas - would be likely.

You're right about the makeup, by and large - for a long time, it'd only be the settler dominions included. That being said, India - the colony of India, including other otl countries - would be included in that. Special case. Eventually, however, the other colonies - likely starting with small ones on the edges, like in Asia or the ed. - would get added, though far better than in otl.

Lordganon (talk) 06:41, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice that - it just ended up being something that I felt like doing, so I did it, lol.

Really, slavery itself wasn't really all that common in Spanish territories. Not that the system in place was much better, but better it was. It's not going to be more widespread.

Not abolition itself, but the fear of it. Only a small number of counties in areas that are in westernmost atl Virginia voted for Lincoln or Fremont, with only a single one having a slight plurality for Breckinridge. Most of them went for Douglas. Basically, something akin to Douglas' position on the matter would be favored - not abolitionism. Which is also something kinda akin to what Bell wanted.

And given that the votes otl probably wouldn't be all that different atl, you'd have a majority in atl Virginia in favor of it. If they elect someone of that stripe, the hard-core slaveowners will revolt. The region between the mountains and the coastal counties will be up in arms, with the counties nearest Carolina being the worst.

Overall, yes, it is very workable. Won't be an attempt at secession, mind - just a revolt. Their motivation? They'd figure that by taking Richmond, they'd get their way. They wouldn't manage it, but... there'd certainly be a scare.

Yes, the otl Netherlands is a very good comparison. This atl one would, mind, have a touch more power internationally for each member.

Really, the counties of the UK are merely ceremonial, and have been for a long time. They'd stay under the UK banner. Ireland... actually, if done soon enough, the Irish may find this arrangement good enough. The federation itself would arise, most likely, from people in atl Canada desiring more say in things.

A British Patagonia, eh? Probably very doable. Not like the Spanish would put any effort into the area if they could avoid it at all.

Lordganon (talk) 07:23, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

The members of the Kingdom of the Netherlands otl don't have, really, any leeway to do foreign affairs. The members of your federation would have a small amount. Distance and different local situations mean that it's got to be the case. The Netherlands otl, as it currently stands, is too new for this to be an issue, but it's going to arise to some degree at some point.

Have a look into early foreign activities of Canada, before WWI, for more of what I'm meaning.

Lordganon (talk) 06:24, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Technology really wouldn't matter too much in that regard. I suspect that it'd actually make it worse. Overall, I suspect that regional differences would eventually lead to more independence for each part. The parts would be more unified overall, if that helps.

Most of the Australian colonies would still join together. Common interests, etc.

That being said, Western Australia, and New Zealand, would join separately. Western Australia almost did that otl, actually. Have to disagree about the culture, though - there was differences between New Zealand and the other colonies.

The current countries bit with the Netherlands is more what I was meaning as to how it would be organized.

Federal states - like the federations first established otl in Africa - would probably be what starts atl. If for no other reason than to keep the "whites" in charge of the imperial federation. Doubt that'd last, of course.

To work, this federation would have to be set up more or less when the first colony wants it. Canada would be the one, and it'd be the 1870s or so. If it's not done right away, it wouldn't be accepted.

The Spanish claims were more or less bluffs. A lot of that was controlled in some form by other powers. I have to doubt the French would agree to give up more land than in otl, too.

Actually, in most cases, Prussia probably would take the place of Germany. Not all, of course - their expansion would not get to the Pacific, for instance - but a fair amount of their African colonies probably would be. Southwest Africa probably still falls to them, along with either Togoland or parts of Cameroon. Whatever it is, it would not be as much as otl Germany. Less power/influence, and desire. But the ones behind the expansion to colonies should still be in Prussia atl.

NN really wouldn't get Togoland either way. Whatever colonies don't exist atl in West Africa would, realistically, be split between the Brits and French. Eastern Africa to the Brits.

Lordganon (talk) 10:26, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

I meant that each of the parts - i.e. Canada, Australia, etc. - would be more unified than in otl. The divisions into provinces or whatnot would still exist, but they'd have far less power.

Nuke, unless something like this is established right off the bat, it's just not going to work. If it isn't, then each colony has some time - like in otl - to be to itself. After that, you're trying to take away their independence, as little as they had otl and would have atl. Not happening, then. That was a major part of the problem otl. If it helps, this was a position advocated by a minority prior to Confederation otl. With no USA, the idea would have more traction.

Yes, if WA is separate at the start, it won't join the rest of the continent.

Nothing is pointless, Nuke. Just about anything is always worth some consideration.

Lordganon (talk) 10:43, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

In comparison to otl, yes, it would be. The divisions would be more akin to those in France. In France, they have some roles, but not many, and are responsible to the overall state for their funding. Not quite like that here, but in the same range of powers. They'd obviously have a few more, and the ability to tax to some degree, but something similar overall.

True, I've been more using it for simplicity's sake, but it'd at least refer to otl Ontario, Quebec, and the "Northwest Territory" atl. The so-called "United Province of Canada" predates the PoD, after all, in many ways.

To be realistic, the Metis wouldn't be involved here until later on - hence, Assiniboia. And thinking on it, the Atlantic Provinces would be divided into Nova Scotia and Newfoundland anyways.

More unification, a tiny bit more authority over themselves, but still very under the crown. There was a fair amount of support for it otl. Really, pretty much everyone wanted that. But the US next door ensured that the otl result occurred.

I figure that the colonies - Canada, Australia, etc. - would have something of a cross between the government of the United Province of Canada and Canada after Confederation.

Lordganon (talk) 04:31, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's more or less what I meant for Australia.

I actually meant how France is divided up otl - and it's not quite as unitary as you may think.

The Rest of BNA would be separate. Be a lot of little chunks, overall.

The Maritimes have always been in favor of the idea of joining together to some degree. Not a bad way to put it.

A comment on the recent version of the ACW comparison in 13 - Lincoln really wasn't an abolitionist otl. Being opposed to something, and wanting an immediate end to it, are different things. Really, the proclamation was more of a weapon against the Confederacy rather than a social move on his part. Now, I'm not saying that he wouldn't be viewed like that in some ways atl - after all, the south did it otl as well, even when he said (repeatedly) that he would not abolish it. In Virginia atl, he'd be a touch more conservative on the matter, I'm sure. The election would be reasonably close, but I'm sure he'd be able to win. Lee as someone to follow him in the role, and getting some sort of gradual program into place, would be very logical. After all, it'd be some Lincoln - atl, and prior to the war otl - would have approved of.

Lordganon (talk) 13:10, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Disney (13 Fallen Stars)
I was thinking that it was possible that Walt Disney was born in Canada in 13 Fallen Stars. His Dad Elias was born in Ontario and his mom was born in Ohio. Could that result in Canadian Disney parks? I like thinking about alternate pop culture because it has a hand in shaping the world. -Yank 03:57, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I just realized that Disney's parents getting together would be a stretch. I still think a Disney-analog would arise somewhere. Could this Disney-analog come from either Britain or one of the wealthier American nations? --Yank 04:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'd have the Disney park in either OTL Gary, Indiana or Detroit. The presence of one of these parks is a major financial boon for the host city, and would save either from the economic collapse they suffer OTL. Something like 2/3 of Detroit is completely abandoned, and that's just too bad. --Yank 04:40, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Divided Japan
Do you still update the Divided Japan TL?

General tiu (talk) 04:17, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

.svg
Hey, quick question. How do you save .svg files on your computer? Do you select all files when saving and then add .svg as the extension?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:06, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you helped. And for the record, I use PC. (Mostly.)

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:39, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering...
If you would ever have problems with good quality .png flags (resolution of 2000 x whatever) for countries? Like a 2000px x 1333px resolution for a British flag? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:17, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

That's ok then, cause I prefer .png to anything else!! :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:48, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Categories
Sorry about that. I'll try to remember that. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 18:11, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Virginia and Liberia
Overall, I think it looks pretty good. Lee's plans are the gradual program, more or less, that many advocated otl, and he'd have Lincoln's backing for basically the entire thing. Heck, Lincoln advocated such things otl.

Though, given things, the rebellion wouldn't last near as long as in otl. Basically all of the advantages the north had otl would be held by the Virginian government, and on a greater scale. Nor is there any way the Brits would dream of supporting the rebels.

Lincoln in 1864 would be probable, I figure, for his election. The VP choice of his party in 1860, as well, though I imagine they'd lose. I would expect only one term, with him being "offed" during it, and his VP not running, opening the path for Lee.

Liberia would really have been a Virginian protectorate already, outright or technically. Virginians did found it, after all. I imagine that atl, this would be made far more formal after Lee's election.

Lordganon (talk) 07:55, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

His odds of being killed probably go up, truth be told. More potential for people to be mad. That being said, the war would also be shorter, so less time for bad feelings.

The positions you have Lee advocating were actually what Lincoln advocated otl until a couple years into the war.

More accurately, I suspect, unlike otl, where the Brits more or less ignored it, atl the rebelling side would get a very emphatic no.

It remained a series of settlements until quite a while after the founding of Liberia, actually.

By my guess, without Northern influences, and it remaining more or less a Virginian organization, the founders of the Liberia colonies would stay in charge. Most of the black colonists would be from Virginia too, with a small amount from Maryland and Pennsylvania (Read: Delaware) joining them. I suspect that a protectorate would be far more likely than in otl, if for no other reason than there being no "northern" influence.

Lordganon (talk) 11:34, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Soviet Spain
So, I had this crazy idea last night. What with Spain--wait, I should mention that this is for my timeline first--anyways, so Spain is ruled by Bonapartes. I figure that a sizeable proportion of the population would be hating on them. Then, like I said, I had a crazy idea. I took the Bolshevik Revolt out of a stable Russia and put it into plagued Spain, overthrowing the King to form the USSS, which the analogue to the USSR. However, the USSS does not become a superpower and collapses after Francisco Franco (Stalin) dies in 1975.

Thoughts?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:16, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Communism is a weak force ATL, originating from South America, with people like Engels and Marx being lost in the worlds of other ideologies.

Given that, you are correct, the revolution is planned in the middle of WWI (WWIV in this case), in 1913 (WWI is four years earlier in every aspect.).

This USSS is basically following a Nazi view on the world--national socialist.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:59, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. This is Francoist Spain on a path akin to the USSR/Nazi Germany.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:56, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

OK, wait, I think we're both confused again. It's the Russian Revolution translated into Spain, with Franco being Lenin/Stalin and the people being fascists instead of commies. I was just asking if it was possible to pull off such a power shift with fascism.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:30, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Manchurian Ruble


I am also in process of creating more of the currency.

Satisfied or I will create more? -- General tiu (talk) 15:39, January 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you still see it?

National Anthems (Russian America)
The Uyghur SSR may get a commie version of its anthem, same as the OTL version by the Uyghur separatists in China, but with a twist...

Qozghal, oyghan, ey xelqim qulluqni tashla, Jengler bilen hayatni yingidin bashla. Zulmatlar astida alembexsh Uyghuristan, Xelqimizning közidin aqti qan-yashlar

CHORUS: Qozghal, birlesh, qozghal, birlesh, Qozghal; almaq Lenin elem.

2. Qozghal, qutqaz; zulumda ingrighan elni, Jangha patti bu zulum kütme ejelni. Gerche dushmen ejdihardel bolsimu surluk, Peqet birlik qutquzar Eziz Watanni.

Chorus

3. Qozghal, atlan ey uluq Oghuz evladi, Bizge medettur herzaman kök böre rohi. Shihitler azusi tinimizde qan, Kar qilalmas hchiqachan dushmenler qesti.

Chorus

4. Qozghal, qozghal, ey uluq Uyghurum qozghal, Hörluk uchun cheng qilmaq bizdiki arman. Ömid kütme hichkimdin ömid özimir, Dilimizda iman bar kommunizm derman.

Chorus

English translation 1. O my people rise up, release slavery start your life again by quarreling Under the persecution great Uyghuristan Blood and tears stream on my people's eye

CHORUS: Stand together, stand together Get up, carry Lenin's banner!

2. Get up, recover howling at hands of the tyranny. Don't wait the fate, this cruelty hurts us Although the enemy is like a disgusting dragon Only being unity will save the beloved homeland.

Chorus

3. Get up! move along, O generation of the Oghuz Han Born brave, all of our generation is wrestler. The desire of the martyrs is blood on our forehead The aim of enemy can't never profit

Chorus

4. Get up! Get up! O my great Uyghur get up! Quarrel for freedom is our desire Don't wait hope from noone, hope is ourselves faith exists in our language, Communism is cure

Chorus

Someone in DeviantArt, [you know whom ;)] had translated and edited this anthem...

Mongolia as an SSR is no objection in having a national anthem as the Mongol SSR; the OTL version is Stalinist enough to be incorporated.

It is the Manchu anthem that I have a problem...

I have the OTL version, the Manchukuo anthem used in 1933-42, used as music. The problem is that the composer is Japanese, but in fairness the guy named Kosaku Yamada, whose Czech-sounding alternate name Kósçak was a good composer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosaku_Yamada

I have a lyrics modified to Stalinize it...

(Now) there is the new Manchuria on Earth, and the new Manchuria is our new land. Let us make our country to be steadfast and free of sadness, with only love and no hate. Forty million people, Forty million people, at ten times more we should still be free. With the Party as guide, rectified am I; with Lenin as a teacher and Stalin as a hero, there are nothing I want. For now, may we assimilate with the world; for the future, may we follow the ways of Russia and the World.

As you know, I had to find again Manchu-language dictionaries out there, or Manchu language experts who can translate.

The alternate solution is that the Manchurian anthem in Russian Anthem is OTL the music for the North Korean anthem.

General tiu (talk) 05:32, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Denendeh
Doing well enough. Yourself?

Nuke, I don't mind you bringing up topics again - you don't repeat the same things when you do it. You only bring topics up again when you find new things out. Believe me, that is very refreshing.

In the era when any such adding would occur, there's almost no population in Rupert's Land besides the natives. Alaska would actually be the most settled part.

The railroad otl didn't have as much motivation from the US as most think - the area needed to be settled, and the best way to do it was to build the railroad. The financing mostly came from Britain, and the eastern US - both of which would still be involved.

The reasons for people in otl Ontario/Quebec supporting the railway otl would actually still exist atl. Economically, they'd still be the source of goods, workers, etc. for the region like in otl.

Yes, Australia did take until the 1910s to build their transcontinental railway. However, the reason for that is something you actually indicate - they could easily ship things by sea. With regards to inland North America, this is not the case - it must be land transport, with rail being the best option.

The settlers in Alaska at purchase were rather small in number - and them leaving has less to do with American pressure than most think. Yes, more would stay with the Brits in charge, but the majority will still leave. While the Americans' attitudes and behaviors did not help matters and convinced more to leave otl, a lot of the reason why they left was simply not wanting to live under the English. The Brits, probably being better behaved, would not get a bad reputation, quickly, but that's only a part of the picture.

The Doukhobor would probably not end up in Alaska - the climate would not be what they were used to, and they'd settle elsewhere, probably in Rupert's Land like atl. Remember, too, that these guys have no reason to like Russia/Russians - they'd likely prefer to stay away from them.

Yes, all those areas did "boom" from the gold rushes. Alaska, despite all going on at the time - two different "rushes" and the Klondike spillover too - did not see anywhere near the same population boost. And after the one at Nome started to end, you can see the fall, too.

There's a major difference between these areas, however - Alaska/Yukon is far more hostile to any would-be settlers, and a lot bigger. You can see this showing in the population dropping like it did - neither California, Colorado, or Western Australia had that problem, and their populations continued to rise. Compared to the Yukon, Alaska's population did better overall, obviously - but it's also on the ocean, and less of a harsh place, in addition to a far longer "rush."

California became a state a lot sooner than it would have, normally - gold rush aside, the population had grown so much since it was annexed in 1848 that it was reasonable for it to be admitted - its growth in the next decade attests to that. The climate also meant that many of these settlers would stay there - not the case in the north.

Alaska did become a state with a population like that, true - but the government also wanted its time as a colony to end, and a state would be easier to defend. If you go by population, it really wasn't ready for it like Hawaii was.

Western Australia wouldn't become its own dominion at the same time as the rest, Nuke - it would probably be a decade later, at least. The population increase in that span would do it. Note, too, that it's also a good location for people to settle, and a far smaller area than Alaska.

British Columbia would have been kept as a separate colony - indeed, there would have been colonies there with a fair population long before the HBC did anything at all like otl in Rupert's Land, or Alaska was sold, and in a much more concentrated area. With areas south of there attached, of course.

Borealia would be split into divisions much like the other dominions. Simple size means that there has to be something installed, and the Gold Rushes would further this. Note, again, that the railway would be put in much like otl, not in the 1910s.

Alaska would just get tacked on to the other colonies in that area. There's not really much reason for it to be by itself - after all, it's just a slightly more settled part of what amounts to wilderness, remember, at that point. By the time the gold gets found, the rest has been opened, and the railway across the continent built. Makes a lot of sense for it to stay there - and the Brits are no doubt smart enough to know that the increase in population won't last. Were otl, after all.

As for it joining Columbia... there'd be a major gap between them. Colony-wise, it makes far more sense to tack it onto the wilderness next door.

Lordganon (talk) 15:01, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Nuke, you can bring anything up anytime.

The Brits wouldn't be opposed to help from NN businessmen. Think of it this way - bankers in the the USA helped finance the railroad in western Canada otl, and NN is on much better terms with the Brits than the Americans were.

The railroad, if built, would also be globally significant. Think about it - it would drastically cut down travel times between the two oceans, on a more northern level than the railway through Panama. Wouldn't be as much of a hurry to get it built, or build it from coast to coast, atl either.

Yes, the railroad would matter more in the area than most would think. Understand where you're coming from, of course.

The Delaware/Pennsylvania note looks good, btw.

Lordganon (talk) 11:17, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

New Manchu SSR CoA!
I used the emblem of the Chinese Soviet Republic as a base.

General tiu (talk) 22:06, February 6, 2013 (UTC)



Coat of Arms
I searched Google for online Uyghur dictionaries. Thank goodness there is one. There is an Uyghur Cyrillic alphabet developed in the Soviet Union, OTL. I guess in Russian America the Uyghurs use it officially. I also had to copypaste a lot from other CoAs like the Communist Afghan CoA, the Hungarian Communist CoA, and the emblem of the Indonesian Parliament because merely of the cotton wreath; I assume cotton would be a good representative of the Uyghur SSR.

Manchu is a different story altogether. Not only there is no Cyrillic alphabet, I even had to borrow the proposed Cyrillic Xibe alphabet devised in China in the 1950s. Xibe is a Manchu dialect so it is fair to adopt it. I went to anakv.com and found a Manchu-Chinese-English glossary. It helped a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibe_language

Here's the Xibe language alphabet in Cyrillic:

Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Ғғ, Дд, Ее, Ёё, Жж, Җҗ, Зз, Ии, Йй, Кк, Ққ, Лл, Мм, Нн, Ңң, Оо, Өө, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Үү, Фф, Хх, Ҳҳ, Цц, Чч, Шш, ы, Яя, ь.

In Manchu, I added the letter  Ў.

The Chinese remaining in Uyghuristan and Manchuria will be forced to use Cyrillic. The Soviets are too tired and confused with the Chinese. But after the fall, the Soviets eventually let the Chinese there to use their script again. There are two ways to do it.

One is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_language

The other is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese

The Koreans in the Soviet Union will get an ASSR in Manchuria. That is the OTL Yanbian region in China, ehem, Manchuria. They will still use Korean hangul, but the transliteration is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Korean

You could also contact this guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:%C5%A0olon He's a Manchu-Chinese-American in the US Army. He speaks a decent amount of Manchu.

I hope you could correct and make the post-Soviet Versions...

And I am trying to edit the song Alaska's Flag to make it more like the Alaskan flag in Russian America.

Here's the OTL version:

Eight stars of gold on a field of blue — Alaska's flag. May it mean to you The blue of the sea, the evening sky, The mountain lakes, and the flow'rs nearby; The gold of the early sourdough's dreams, The precious gold of the hills and streams; The brilliant stars in the northern sky, The "Bear," the "Dipper," and, shining high, The great North Star with its steady light, O'er land and sea a beacon bright. Alaska's flag — to Alaskans dear, The simple flag of a last frontier.

My version is this:

Eighteen stars of white on a field of colors — Alaska's flag. May it mean to you The blue of the sea, the evening sky, The mountain lakes, and the flowers nearby; The red of the sacrifice of our heroes, The blood that bonds Alaska's fate; The white of the mountaintops, The snow that covers our land. The great eighteen stars our guide and light, Over land and sea a beacon bright. Alaska's flag — to Alaskans dear, The simple flag of a last frontier.

General tiu (talk) 22:15, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

13FS PoD
Looks very good, Nuke. Lordganon (talk) 08:14, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Have to say - anyone white isn't going to go to Liberia. And most Africans would not, either - the colonists, and the resulting state, weren't looked on very favorably for most of history.

London may be a good spot for his parents to meet.

Virginia would have desegregated by today - I'd guess not too long after otl, actually. The courts that ruled against segregation otl actually had a few members that were born in what would be atl Virginia, even. Maryland probably around the same time.

Now, Carolina would still have it, of course.

Yeah, no way he leads Virginia. Could be a politician there, though.

Lordganon (talk) 13:45, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Lee would indeed do such a thing - the problem is, Obama's ancestors are either white, or Kenyan, so they would not go there. Slavery doesn't apply.

Segregation actually did not exist in Hawaii at the time, and never had. Like I said, though, would be very possible for his parents to meet elsewhere.

Yes, I believe it would still be in use in Carolina. Remember, a lot of why it ended otl was because of volunteers and funds from the north, which would not happen here. And without a government telling these southern states what to do.... they won't reverse it on their own. I doubt any outside states are going to be able to put pressure on them, either. The government, for that matter, could get away with putting down anything like MLK or whatnot violently, too.

Debate would probably be starting about abolishing it - and I'd guess that some areas (the more northern states of Carolina) would have already done so. But it'd still be law, I think. Heck, if they had their way today otl in the Deep South, it would still be law.

Lordganon (talk) 09:59, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

As I said, if they had their way, that'd still be the case otl. A lot of the things the area believes in are just disturbing.

Yeah, apartheid was easier to overcome for exactly that reason. Though, had the whites been a majority like in the American South, the black population would have either been deported, or been ignored, since as a minority, they would not have been near so much a threat.

Yeah, darkness like that can be appealing, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 02:47, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, he is definitely a case where the environment would change him from otl to some degree. That being said, he'd probably be on the more moderate side of things, still. However.... in pretty much any other country, that would make him merely right-wing, instead of a far-right nut.

I'm sure that some progress would occur - something like letting blacks serve in the military, or some such thing - but the situation would not change.

Yeah, Wallace would definitely be the leader of Carolina for a while. And he should scare you. Shame that the views he preached are still the norm in Alabama, and nearby states.

Lordganon (talk) 03:55, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Sad truth is, that they would be. Both Carter and Clinton would be from the southernmost areas, and with a primary political influence being Wallace... Things would be getting better, true enough, but they'd definitely not be Democrats atl. Remember that the Democrats, prior to the Depression, were the opposite in most ways of their current attitudes.

Gore would be better, if that helps - the majority of his ancestors are from Virginia or North Carolina, with the next largest batch being from New Jersey. You could easily argue he's Virginian atl, or from the more moderate areas of Carolina.

Bush atl would be more or less like his grandfather was otl. With a lot of the same mannerisms, of course, but different opinions.

Up until the last few decades, Florida was like the rest of the south, politically. This holds far more the case for the 1800s. New Netherland would have no reason to do that, the inhabitants wouldn't go for it, and much like otl, there'd already be a large amount of settlers from Georgia and the Carolinas in the area.

Lordganon (talk) 05:26, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

...Didn't say anything about Wallace being Virginian. What I said was that Al Gore would most likely be, with Carolina (the more reasonable northern areas) being a second choice.

Yeah, I knew the bits about Bush and Florida were jokes, lol - figured I'd comment anyways :p

Lordganon (talk) 10:48, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Far as I can tell, most of his ancestors are from Virginia, so it's likely he'd be from there atl. Most of the rest seem to be from nearby areas of North Carolina, which would lend to it too.

Oh? Do tell.

Lordganon (talk) 12:13, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, he was born in DC while his father was in Congress. Heck, on that same note, I'd say that he'd be born in Richmond under similar circumstances atl.

Wouldn't see southerners moving there like northerners otl - the climate is really no different.

Funny, but I did know that about Florida and cattle. Bet most people don't, mind.

Yes, it would be more like Texas than in otl. And it being a bit of a "refuge" for freed blacks sounds about right, too.

Looks good, overall.

Lordganon (talk) 07:51, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Electoral map for Chile
Hi Nuc! How are you? hope fine :) I want to know if you can help me please with a electoral map for Chile. I need a map similar to for my timeline Chile No Socialista, but where Chile has annexed territories from Argentina, Perú and Bolivia. I have been working in this new territories, establishing the possible limits of the new provinces and communes. You could do it, please? But if you are very busy, there is no problem, of course. Thanks and regards! --Katholico (talk) 20:09, February 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your disposition Nuc :D
 * Well, in fact, by the moment only need the map in blank (I forgot say that xD), I need work more in the possible results in each commune and in each election.
 * About the new territories, here is the maps: I use an BLUE line for show the division between the new communes. But in some areas I put a name in red, for show that this territory is annexed to a OTL chilean commune.


 * Aysén Region
 * Patagonia
 * East Tierra del Fuego
 * Jujuy-Salta
 * Catamarca
 * Bolivia
 * Chile also annexed the, but in this case the provinces remain the same.
 * Please tell me if something is no clear XD Thanks again!!! :D Regards! --Katholico (talk) 00:25, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry about that problem (I didn't know that) :(
 * But about your question, yes, i want a map showing all of Chile's communes, including the new ones. I hope your can resolve this without many problems, I don't want to complicate you in excess. Thanks for your help again ^^U Any other thing just tell me. Regards! --Katholico (talk) 02:55, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear that :D
 * About the map, the answer is no :P That map was the original that i made when I began with the South American War... gradually I did changes to him, reducing the territories annexed (was my first years in the Alternative History world :P). A map more accurate for today is this, but still have imprecisions in some areas. Now that i has been working in the different elections in Chile came to me the need to have a more specific map of the country. Regards! --Katholico (talk) 03:33, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sure, tomorrow is fine. Thanks :)
 * mmm, good question. I think that is better that the map remain sideways. After all, if i want later, i can change the direction by myself, right? Regards --Katholico (talk) 03:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Each colour represent to an new commune. 5 colours, 5 communes :) Thanks!!! --Katholico (talk) 19:37, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep. That provinces are now commmunes. Regards! --Katholico (talk) 22:13, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wow, Nice job Nuc!! I really liked the map!! :D Thank you very much!!! No problem that be a vector file. I think that i can change it to a .PNG to edit it easier. I will show the map to a friend which collaborate with me in CNS for be sure that all is fine. :) Any thing I will say you. Thanks again!!!! ^^ Regards! --Katholico (talk) 03:32, February 12, 2013 (UTC)




 * Nuc, we have a problem D: But is all my fault. I forgot to mention one limit more located between Los Lagos Region and Chubut. In this case the OTL communes of Hualaihué and Futaleufú annexed the new territories. Sorry, I don't know how I forgot this part :( I hope you don't have more problems adding this. Regards --Katholico (talk) 15:14, February 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * OK :) Katholico (talk) 05:13, February 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi! It's me again XD You added the territory that I missed? xD Regards! --Katholico (talk) 18:32, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, of course no ^^ Just i asked because maybe i need the map updated today XD Regards! --Katholico (talk) 18:49, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I downloaded the Inkscape program, but I have not had the time for install and to use XD But if can upload a PNG file of the map that will be excelent! :D Thanks and Regards! --Katholico (talk) 20:53, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much Nuc. No problem about it :) Regards! --Katholico (talk) 16:46, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sports Teams in Russian America
I wonder what would the sports teams in Alaska would look like? I think Mexico will be involved in the Four Major Professional Leagues, so is Alaska.

I think the center of Alaska's sports team would be either Seattle or New Westminister.

General tiu (talk) 20:52, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I suck at sports anyway, even in the one game I can "competently" play: basketball. Most of us from the Philippines didn't like other team sports [until soccer came along recently], but that was just asking.

I wonder if Igor Sikorsky would go to Alaska instead of the United States. He may stop over America at first, but later moved to Alaska when the situation was now secure there, feeling he had more affinity with the Russian settlers there than with the Americans, and want to help the supposedly fledgeling Alaskan aeronautics industry there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Sikorsky

General tiu (talk) 02:54, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Sevastopol
Trying to find a good image of Sevastopol or some other Russian city that would pass for it. Got anything?

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:45, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry if I confused you. I'm talking about the city of. I'm trying to find a good image of the city, and I was wondering if you could help me. I've only found buildings and streets so far. Do you think another seaside city could pass for it in an ATL?

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:17, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm... Well, I do suppose that finding a skyline would be hard. Meh.

Thanks anyways.

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Russian America again...
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270272

I guess you explain to them how Russia had successfully colonized Alaska and at least Northern California.

I am also thinking of editing the OTL Canadian Coat of Arms to make it resemble the Acadian Coat of Arms, probably putting the arms of the six provinces of Acadia together, but the Canadian CoA is copyrighted by the Canadian Government and I am in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Canada.svg

General tiu (talk) 18:47, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Decision?
Are you concluding on rejecting my offer for the Presidential election page? I know that it was rude of me to place it on without approval, but if it is rejected, I'd rather remove my offer so I don't bother you any further.

Now, if it is worth anything to know:

I selected the idea of a run-off (while understanding and respecting LG's point about not needing a run-off) due to the POTSU's page as to Ryzhkov apparently winning 2/3 of the vote. However, I chose the run-off because a run-off between Ryzhkov and Bukovsky counted for 3/5 of the hole vote, but Ryzhkov accounted for 33.2% (meaning that 33.1/60.0 = 55.16, rounded to 55.2% as the result for Ryzhkov).

As for the Elected/Defeated colors, I just wanted to add something colorful. Initially, it was supposed to be an Elected/Defeated/Disqualified measure, but I didn't know how to merge some of the cells (Forgive Me).

And, as for the description of the election, it was mainly worded to follow the POTSU page with each different party in the first round and the Communist Party endorsing Ryzhkov in the runoff. I placed Yakovlev as more of the same fashion that the P-eOTUS selects cabinet members: announcing the election during the transition and inaugurating them on the same/nearest day that the President is inaugurated.

I sincerely hope that you will forgive me for jumping the gun on the page. Before, I did consider on working the election for 10 years after the 1995 election. However, I will wait for your permission on the 2005 page (I'd like to talk about candidates against Tereshkova as well). And you may take your time on accepting or denying my proposals, but please tell me that you will consider it.

ALibertarianModerate95 (talk) 21:46, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

PNG to SVG
Do you happen to know of any programs that could convert PNGs to SVGs? I got Inkscape and went as far to try using Illustrator at another computer, but I fail miserably at using those. Inkscape doesn't even open up on my computer.

<span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:48, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oh no, I believe that I have given you the wrong impression. I have taken a favor to SVG files as the background can change to any color. In fact, the files in question are for work I have off-wiki. All the files I downloaded were SVG, but the ones I made are in PNG are retaining their white background on the black-colored wiki. (You can see this at this link: http://anycs.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WikiActivity)

Meh. I'll probably end up going out of my way to solve the problem.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:03, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I know you like New York, lol.

Anyways, thanks for the help. I'll inform you if I come with something.

Also, I think you are only getting on the nerves of those who do not understand why their files are being deleted (the reason being duplication). Other than that, I think it's a fair notification and that it keeps the wiki more organized and neat.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:10, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

SA in 13
Sorry I took so long to get back to you - things have been really hairy the last couple weeks. Family drama, and lots of it.

Yes, the Cape Colony staying Dutch makes sense.

The Boers really would not exist. Really, without the Brits in power, virtually none of their reasons for leaving would have existed. Centralization isn't one, either. Really, they would not care about that.

That being said, the Dutch colony is going to have the majority of the otl OFS in its territory. It wasn't very far off that when the Brits took over otl.

South Africa would, by and large, get split between the Cape colony and Natal. I'd expect the otl Boer states, minus the western two thirds or so of the OFS, would go to the Brits, along with parts of their otl colonies north of there. The Portuguese are going to have larger colonies than otl.

Lordganon (talk) 11:43, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, doing fine. Just have had a lot of other things taking up my time, you know?

Yes, the Boers were indeed mostly semi-nomadic. But, really they didn't have a problem with authority - just with British authority. The Brits attempted to hurt their culture, take away/ban the small numbers of slaves, make the Boers and the black population equal, and above all that, instituted "Anglicization" policies. While the Dutch would have done the second and third at some point, the first and last would not have been the case. In many ways, it was the last one that made them leave.

The two other factors for their move - a perceived lack of land, and fighting with the Xhosa - are easily rectified by simple expansion like the USA did. Them moving otl is more comparable to the Mormons going to Utah, had it not been part of any nation at the time, than the expansion of the American frontier.

It's not a stupid idea, Nuke, at all. Very workable if you remove the Boer republics from the picture.

Lordganon (talk) 08:15, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Really, almost none of the Boers owned slaves - it was pretty much a non-issue. For that matter, slavery was actually banned in their republics.

Basically, without the Brits being in charge, none of the reasons for the trek exist. It's not going to happen.

No more armed than any other frontier society, actually. The difference was far more their experience with warfare, and surprise, that let them do so well otl. The Brits also didn't really try in the first war.

Now, the Dutch may well set up some sort of separate administration further inland. Brits did it there otl, so it makes sense for the Dutch to do it atl. But it'd be nothing like the otl settlers.

Lordganon (talk) 09:45, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Apology
Oh, I'm really sorry. I'll try to upload the files in SVG format. FirstStooge (talk) 04:18, February 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much :) FirstStooge (talk) 04:29, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Duplicates
Something went wrong with whatever you tried to post on my talk page, but I know what you were going to put. Sorry for the duplicates, I did use the search but it isn't the best. TheB (talk) 21:17, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh thanks, I made an incorrect assumption! No need to worry.

I presume the error I made with format was to upload it as PNG as oppossed to SVG. What exactly was the labelling error I made? TheB (talk) 19:00, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

I see, thanks. I'll follow that in future.

Also (sorry to keep asking questions), is it acceptable to add animated gif maps? The sort that show border progression. TheB (talk) 19:52, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice. I shall try it out. TheB (talk) 16:57, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Map games
Hey, do you want to join my map game Axis vs Allies The Last Round (Map Game)?

DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It

Timeline question
Hey, sorry to bother you, but when I get further along in my timeline, could you give me some feedback on how plausible my history progression is? --108.76.134.105

Hong Kong (13 Fallen Stars)
I have an idea about the potential British Dominion of Hong Kong. You could get two birds with one stone and say that the Dominion of Hong Kong is the name for the British slice of the China pie, which is currently not given any information other than it existing. What do you think about that? Yank 02:57, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

My ID is Jordan Chang. Nice to meet you. 203.186.96.85 04:48, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Russia in 13
Well, first off, I can definitely say that revolution in Russia was not inevitable. Once it got to the 1890s otl? Maybe. But, overall? Not in the least.

With no French Revolution, and such an example of the "excesses" of liberalism like otl, the Russian nobility would be not have been so opposed to the concept.

And, for that matter, the American Revolution would, in many ways, be seen as a failure of the concept.

Unlike otl, the Russian nobility would probably be more accepting of the concept of reforms, over time. The Empire would, really, probably not fall.

Main rival of the Brits? Probably. But a republic, not likely.

Eastern Europe would be aligned to Russia still, mind.

Any pseudo-Cold War would not be between ideologies - it'd be just between the two governments, ala~ the Great Game of otl.

And about the rest of the new stuff...

I really have to say, a Canadian Republic isn't going to happen here. Not only is the only example largely a failure, but they'd also have little to no outside support - and no hope of getting more, like they did otl. Really, the English wouldn't even try to revolt, in my opinion, let alone win.

Cuba and the Philippines wouldn't stay Spanish territories. For that matter, I'd even say that Carolina would support Cuban rebels more than the US otl, though they'd not annex it.

Lordganon (talk) 12:29, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Quite frankly, until I looked at the Russia info and saw the Canada Republic section under it, I had never seen it before. That is the first mention of it being a republic borne out of that revolt that I've seen. Nothing in our other discussions has mentioned that, which had I known before, may have changed other answers I had given you. Don't appreciate having a message crossed out, either. Lordganon (talk) 09:47, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

...Used it for simplicity because "Canada" really didn't exist at that point in history. Not atl, but otl. Better to use one word to describe the area than several, after all. You used "not exist within" to describe it, rather than "not part of" which goes along with it not existing yet, like I'd said a few times before that :p Meh.

Hmmmm....

Well, however it would happen, it'd start with settlers from the American nations in the otl Northwestern Territory. There's no way they'd get the support in otl Ontario for it to happen there - I cannot begin to understate just how low support was for the Rebellions, overall. Independence in that way would more or less kill the whole area remaining a unitary state, too. At the very least otl Quebec splits. The American nations would have to support the whole thing, too, which probably hurts their relations with the Brits for a while.

Have to think some about how this, overall, changes previous advice I've given.

Lordganon (talk) 09:57, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, with the number of loyalists, it was inevitable that it would happen anyway. And, given the timing of it versus your PoD, be something unaffected by it.

Loyalists were a majority in a few areas, but by and large they were the minority.

New England colonists, however, would be pro-Britain. Yes, some Pennsylvanians and Virginians would settle in the Northwestern Territory - but they'd be outnumbered. That'd be about the same situation as in Ontario otl, though with a mildly higher proportion of Americans. Mackenzie would not have more support than in otl - probably less, really, given the lack of an American example.

Brits wouldn't let revolutionaries go to Quebec - nor would anyone from France be listened to there. The Quebecois have never been fond of French attitudes. Louisiana would work as a destination, though, for revolutionaries.

For some of the American states, it'd be in conflict of their interests to support such a movement. NE would probably actively oppose it, even. Really, such a state would be more of a threat to them than the Brits were, by that point.

Remember, NE wouldn't have needed the Brits to win that war - British involvement would have more been to get them to peace than anything.

The French government wouldn't support revolutionaries, some of whom tried to fight them in France, and the rest of whom hold such "violent" ideals. 13 Stars is a world where ideas like that would, by and large, get written off more often.

The Brits would probably have more of an ability than otl to fight off such revolts, too. No Napoleonic Wars, etc.

Not so much a failure of federalization as a failure of the American ideals in general. Federalization had had a long history in Europe, on varied levels, by that point, with some success.

Some sort of split of it into three states might work nicely.

Thinking about it, there's two things I've said that would change in light of a Canadian revolt. The Brits would be more willing to support the Virginian rebels, and Acadia would form earlier than Canada did otl. I expect, too, that the Brits would be less willing to cooperate with NN, if they support the rebels, in and around 1900.

Lordganon (talk) 10:26, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

My apologies, Nuke - I in no way intended to upset you.

Nuke, you do have good ideas. Don't ever try to convince yourself otherwise.

Lordganon (talk) 09:13, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Please upload the correct files
I had already noticed that you were cleaning up after me. The thing is that I don't seem to be able to save original .svg files from Wikipedia to my computer by right-clicking them. No problem with other extensions however, which is why I upload .png files with identical names for easy replacement. I've Googled a solution earlier, but didn't come across anything useful, so if you could tell me how to save .svg files? --XterrorX (talk) 16:15, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

I just successfully saved and uploaded a .svg flag with your instructions. I had tried Save Page As in Firefox earlier, but due to the Internet Explorer icon (and incompatibility with image viewers), I was under the impression that I saved the actual url and thus never made an attempt to upload it. Thanks for the explanation and my apologies for wasting the time you spent deleting and reuploading my files. --XterrorX (talk) 17:50, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I read on a forum somewhere that you need software by Adobe or other companies to open .svg files. I'll look into it, but for the moment I will just keep my edited flags and custom maps in .png format (for ease of editing in MS Paint) and Wikipedia imagery in their respective file types. --XterrorX (talk) 19:59, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Recommend New Union...
http://www.counter-factual.net/upload/showthread.php?t=18979

Well, they are looking for a surviving Soviet Union post-1945 that is a normal superpower? Well, you could recommend it to them...

General tiu (talk) 17:28, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Already done and replaced it with a different one.

General tiu (talk) 01:53, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Nuclear Weapons States in Russian America
I wonder in Russian America TL, which states have nuclear weapons? I guess this would be:

The US, Britain, France, Russia, detonated as in OTL, but with the US doing it in OTL Oklahoma. Japan does it in the Pacific in 1952. Alaska may have nuclear weapons, or not. Ditto with Mexico. China does not have as in OTL, due to role reversal, but it may be too big not to own such an arsenal, Japan may permit China to do so.

General tiu (talk) 02:09, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

"13" Louisiana
Figured that since you mentioned me, I'd slip you a note ;)

Looks really good.

Lordganon (talk) 03:16, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, finally getting back on the ball, so to speak. Hopefully nothing else goes wrong around here, lol

Yes, Canada would be its own entity.

Labrador.... well, I wouldn't quite say it goes to Newfoundland. Yes, it would be part of Newfoundland - but the extent of that, however, would be up for some degree of debate, I imagine. Have a look at this. Wouldn't be surprised if it was both more of an issue, and an earlier one, atl.

Lordganon (talk) 05:07, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it makes ideas "flow" better.

Figured you'd be aware of it - never hurts to make sure.

Basically, the border can be whatever you want - and some sort of treaty, or whatnot, like otl, would come up sooner than it did otl. There was - and, really, still is - a lot of dispute over it.

Just something to kinda "change it up" a bit if you want, you know?

Lordganon (talk) 08:33, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

"Bit" isn't a good enough word for that one, trust me. Though, not like those separatists have ever been all that bright.

By the time the Brits move in, the Dutch would probably be a bit further east than that. Not too much - maybe as far as where East London is otl.

I wouldn't expect the Dutch to actually go all that far into Botswana - much of the country is actually desert. Between the SA border at the Molopo River, and the Okavango Delta near Angola, there really isn't much. About as far north as I'd expect anything Dutch would be the 24th parallel. They'd move into otl Namibia, too - I'd call the parallel the northern border with the Portuguese, all over.

The border between the Brits and Dutch, I suspect would extend from the the Marico River, going mildly southeast, using the rivers. Mostly, these would be the upper tributaries of the Orange River. It would end at the ocean with the Great Kel River being the final part of the border.

The British border with the Portuguese I think would be further north in the east, and slightly south in the west, basically following the Limpopo. That southernmost area of Mozambique wasn't really settled until the latter half of the 1800s, after all.

Yes, a land corridor for the Portuguese would be likely here - railways, roads, etc. - would run through otl Zimbabwe, and then through northern Botswana and. That's an area between the desert and jungle. They'd probably end up with much of Zambia too.

Still have to say, though - the Dutch probably wouldn't split their colony up. Only reason the Brits did it was because charters inland were given to different people. More of an artificial construction than most of Africa - and you know how bad that problem is.

Throw me a blank version of that map and I'll draw up something like what I'm meaning.

Lordganon (talk) 04:04, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

But your maps are so much cleaner, lol - that lightening effect you do is useful for this work. I'll look into it, mind.

Look to the former half of that old statement instead of the latter - past that, I didn't really look at maps when I said that, which was an oversight on my part. Having looked at them and some geographic details, I have to say its just not all that feasible, especially with the Brits having the east like that.

Lordganon (talk) 04:47, March 15, 2013 (UTC)



Something more like that. Note, too, that I slipped Walvis Bay in there. Occurred to me that the Brits would probably scoop it up like in otl, for the same reasons.

Remember, most of Namibia is desert. Aside from the far north, only the coast is worth anything. It's like the arctic - yes, there's a lot of land, but most of it is worthless.

Were the area between the Dutch and Brits desert or some such thing, I'd agree that a line would make sense. But it's not - the land itself, and the need to worry about defenses, mean that that's really not ideal. Not impossible, of course - just not ideal. On a world map it really wouldn't be noticeable, if that helps.

Portuguese shouldn't mind too terribly - and if they did, they sure as heck wouldn't tell the Brits.

Lordganon (talk) 08:59, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Reply
I'm sorry, I will more be careful in future.

By the way, can I ask some advice from you? Do I need to "save" my ATL Soviet Union or "dissolute" it into my ATL Russia? FirstStooge (talk) 01:30, March 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm...I think I just invented a new word ("dissolute").


 * There are any possibilities with no purge on the Red Army it will helping the Soviet to developes its military and being prepare for the Nazi invasion? FirstStooge (talk) 04:58, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your advices, Nuke, I will developing my timeline very well soon :) FirstStooge (talk) 15:05, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

GWBIII
Thanks for the support. He has done this to me in a bunch of other places anyways. I'm sick of it, quite frankly.

02:25, March 18, 2013 (UTC)