Talk:Main Page


 * Archive 1 | Archive 2

United Nations is not there!
just to say that UN.wikia.com in nor real, and Unitednations.wikia.com in not up, and if you are here you like history and politics, and i wan your suport to get up a new wikia, you enjoy us?--Fero 03:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * unitednations.wikia.com is here now, and your work in tere is welcome--Fero 04:02, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh -- Fero, I appreciate your zeal to share and contribute, but I'm utterly confused by what you're trying to say here. Louisiannan 22:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Major Problems
Even though I'm not a very important user, I still think I have the right to say this. Without Max Sinister anymore, the TL is getting lax. Pure ASB TLs are running around on our website now, and we automatically welcome ALL editors, even vandals. Why don't we do a system where you need a username first, and not even welcome all users. We need to lay down the law. Mr.Xeight 22:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that we don't have as much control over this wiki as we do at Frath, or I wouldn't mind implementing a system similar. If you'd like to police the ASB timelines, that works for me too -- what's happened to Max Sinister? Louisiannan 22:49, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I talked to him 1-2 months ago on an alt-hist forum much like that one. I was actually ridiculed for one of my TLs, so I had an emotional breakdown and some very choice words for one person, so I haven't been back. Anyway, when Max was really the only one to try to help with the TL, I asked why he hasn't been on this site in awhile. His answer was understandable, he decided it wasn't really fun anymore for him to make alt-hists after he finished his Chaos TL.
 * Can't we petition Wikia to let us decided what to do. I find it quite annoying some Islamic Fundamentalist who cleared the page of PS-1's female PM of Afghanistan, and seconds later was given "Hi, welcome to AltHist Wiki! I noticed your edit on "So-and-so (PS-1)" and I liked it! Have fun!"


 * As for ASB timelines I know the "Sino-Roman" and "Zhou" timelines are pure ASB. The user, Ladon just creates random countries by closeness, some nations that have never been in union in our world, and have little to do with each other. To add even more insult to insult, he makes random nations monarchies, republics, communist republics, etc and then makes their leader a name that has literally nothing to do with the nation he/she rules (such as he'll make a woman president with a Hungarian name for Indonesia or something). On top of that, the peoples of his TLs only have pages saying "So&So is leader of South Austria and Slovenia"-that's it. I remember one of the nations that was centered around Chicago, it's national languages were "native Hawaiin". Good luck finding any sort of native Hawaiin immigrants or restaurants in Chicago. Finally, one more problem I have with this ASB central Tls is one of them has the whole continent of Africa divided into "North, South, East, and West", something that would never fly in our world due to ethnic tensions and so forth.

I'm sorry I gave such a wall of text, I've been carrying that around with me for nearly a year now. Mr.Xeight 23:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I fear you may have jumped to conclusions, Mr. Xeight -- From what I gathered as I glanced over the Sino-Roman timeline, it's a vastly different world than ours, and that could very well explain why it varies so much from our world. Louisiannan 19:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

You can see what I mean at Queen Chantal Maugham (Zhou) Mr.Xeight 23:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree with Louisiannan. Isn't this supposed to be a place for creativity? 24.49.35.99 03:24, January 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * A suggestion to fight vandalism would be to create a page where users could report vandalism. The admins would check the page regularly, investigate, and take the necessary precautions (protect the page, block the user/anon, or just tell everyone to play nice).
 * As for ASB TLs, personally I don't have a problem with them...up to a point. Some of the best published works of alternate history have ASB PODs or setting. Its when some authors just start to use it as a crutch that it becomes annoying. Mitro 01:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Well how about a compromise then. The main problem I have with the Zhou and Sino-Roman TLs is they only contain the character's lineage. He's not going to come back to them, only create blank pages. I understand if the person makes a tasteless, ASB Timeline, but if he/she works with it, cares for it, and makes it one-hell-of-a story, who are we to criticize. If you all remember that "Celtic Tibet" page and its respective TL, that was only nation templates with random ethnicities in the wrong country and with really, really weird flags. So I propose a great compromise; as long as its fleshed out, I personally won't say a thing about it. As for the vandalism page I like the idea, but some people might abuse it or just be complete wankers about it and flood the page. Some people (like me) will now begin to systematically hunt down vandals and sysops like Marc or Bo might be frustrated by it to having to check it every minute for another minor vandal I see. I wouldn't want to make their time at AH a living Hell. But if we can find a way to balance, I'd love a page like that. Mr.Xeight 01:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well this is wiki has only 90 active members and I doubt there would be that many abusers either currently or in the future, and they would be making themselves obvious targets for blocking if they attempted to. As for annoying the admins, well the final decision on having such a page is there's of course, but no one wants to see pages get vandalized and the work necessary to fix it would be easy. Especially since the vandalism itself could be reverted by anyone, the protecting/blocking is the only real work. Mitro 02:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

T.S.P.T.F.
Sounds like we need to have some sort of group that polices things. What I'm thinking is this:


 * 1) I don't have time to go through every time line.
 * 2) I don't want to spend the time going through every time line.
 * 3) I don't think any of the other admins, bureaucrats or else want to do it either.
 * 4) If we split up the work, we'd be much better policed.

With all that said, I think we should create the Time Stream Protection Task Force, a group of wiki members who've proven to be fair in their dealings with others, who won't quash a time line because they feel like it, and who are willing to work with a larger group to help keep things otherwise in check.

With that said, I'd like to open nominations to this Task Force. You may nominate someone else. If their nomination is seconded, the nominee will be considered, accepted or rejected by the Administrator-Bureaucrats of the wiki and if accepted may then be awarded their badge and their Quantum-Tachyon Rectifier. If you have any questions let me know. I'll be in contact with the other Administrator-Bureaucrats (Ben, Sikulu, Nik, Marc, Villa Cruoniga) about voting.

Nominations will be open through the end of August.

Be forewarned that nomination to the T.S.P.T.F. does not give you all-power, but it gives you the task of bringing troubling behaviour to the attention of Admins and Bureaucrats.

Nominees
''Enter the Username preceeded by a # when nominating, followed by your user name and date ( ~ ). Enter a : followed by your user name and date ( ~ ) when seconding a nomination. You cannot nominate yourself. You must be nominated by others. A nomination must be seconded for consideration.''


 * 1) Xi&#39;Reney, -- Louisiannan 16:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Yankovic270 19:04, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Mr.Xeight, -- Mitro 18:46, 23 July 2009 (UTC) :Xi&#39;Reney 10:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) User:Mitro, -- Mr.Xeight 16:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC) :--Xi&#39;Reney 10:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) User:Benkarnell, --Marcpasquin 13:51, 25 July 2009 (UTC) :--Xi&#39;Reney 10:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) User:SouthWriter -- Vegas adict 18:47, June 28, 2010 (UTC) Yankovic270 19:04, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) User:Yankovic270

Discussion?
The basic idea is agreeable. Just to clarify: Which rights will this TSPTF "badge and Rectifier" give one?? Any formal wikia rights? Or will this be more a "bloodhound group"?? Being kept out of the wikia admin-sysop-etc. system completely? --Xi&#39;Reney 15:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been thinking about any "formal" rights. I'll be discussing it with the other Admin-Bureaucrats to be sure, but I think I would extend rollback rights, to start with. It will also depend on who gets nominated in. It's that whole, "to whom much power is given, much is expected." I want to make sure that the folks in the TSPTF will not abuse their powers, you know?


 * Otherwise, it's going to be a bloodhound group to somewhat help police the wiki, make sure that everyone's playing nice and following the rules. As for being "kept out of the wikia system", I think that I'd be more inclined to pick new admins from amidst the TSPTF unless someone showed real value otherwise. Does that make sense? Or does it just add more confusion? Louisiannan 16:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The more I think about this the more I think the TSPTF will be like "those that have been around for a bit." Meaning people that we know and are accepted, cooperative members of this community. Louisiannan 17:31, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm totally not into doing this and would never like to be considered. *hint hint* Mr.Xeight 18:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Mitro :) Mr.Xeight 19:43, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

How much sense does it make to nominate an admin? Isn't the TSPTF supposed to help the admins by reverting and reporting vandalism? If the majority or all are admins then what is the point? Mitro 15:18, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

You're right, Mitro. That's why I rescinded my nominations for a new person, sorry everyone. Mr.Xeight 16:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI, Louis has recently made Ben an admin. Mitro 16:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Nominations
Well, here are the nominations:


 * 1) Xi&#39;Reney
 * 2) Mr.Xeight
 * 3) User:Mitro
 * 4) User:Benkarnell

Given that Ben and Mitro already have admin rights, I've gone ahead and extended rollback rights to Xi'Reney and Mr. Xeight. We'll see about full admin powers a bit further down the road, but welcome aboard gents. Kindly take your TSPTF badge and display it with pride on your user page! Louisiannan 17:46, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Apology
I apologize for any trouble and/or stress I have caused anyone in my 1 year and a bit I've been here. I made a major mistake, I eschewed quality, and replaced it with mere quantity. The complaints about my quality are of course, completely accurate. I am only sorry that I am a cause of any stress to others. I will freely admit that I was ignorant of the standards that were expected of the work I created, this is wholly my fault, and I do apologize. As you can probably tell, English is not my first language (I am a teen-ager learning it at school), I was using this wiki to practice making readable sentences. As this is not, and never was, the purpose of this wiki, I misused this public idea-sharing space. W̙̝ͧ̃͗i̢̖̰̝͙͖̺̟̼̿̽͐́ͅt̥̥̪̼̰ͯ͒̄̊̀ͬ͗̂h̴̡͍̹̺̃ͫ̈̌̀ ̖͚̓̾ș̛̞̫͙͇͉̾͐̎̀̂ĩ͕͍͖̦ͭ͌̀ͯ̕ͅn̖͈ͩͣ̄̋̋ͤ͡c̵̛̘̞͆̓̐̀̓̍̏ḙ̵͔̬͔͚͈͎̑͆ͪ́̑̋̆̓r͕̣͚̅͛͐̇͌̚e̷͕̓ͤͭ̈̌ ͔͚̯̰ͯͧ͐̀ả̋̓̔ͬ̓̀̀ͅp̨̩̗͔̈́̈ǫ̗̥̰̥͈̾̃̕l̦̙͙͍̗͌̆ͨ̏ͪ̈́̚͝o̸̶̳̙̰͙̘̥̤ͮ͋ͪg̪̹̝͔ͤ̊̊i͍̐͘e̸̿͂̂͗͏̬̹̦̼̫s͚͕̩ͥ̃̌̿͐̽̊́,̶̯̫̣͇͉̹ͧ͑̓͛ͬ̌ Ladon 23:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Whoa, whoa, whoa, Ladon -- There were a few that referenced your pages in particular -- but from what I could read about the Sino-Roman timeline, I saw no problems with how you set it up. The bulk of the complaints were related to pages done by others - pages that were not coherent in their story, that completely ignored the intent of this wiki -- to show creative alternate histories. Your three timelines looked to be very creative, and frankly, worthwhile.
 * The sole complaint was the naming of characters in your timeline -- however, from what I understand, there was a melding of cultures between China and Rome -- is there any wonder that names spread east and west?


 * Your English, for that matter, is very legible, very understandable, compared to others I've read.
 * As for the "standards", as we said, as long as you were serious about your timelines, be they a little "out-there" or not, we don't mind -- if you're serious about them. I see nothing wrong with keeping your stories here, and improving them. In fact, I ask you to reconsider -- I think you could make a valuable input here. Louisiannan 14:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Likem96
Why hasn't anyone done anything on Likem? All he's doing is importing articles from wikipedia and putting them into pages. Even if those are pages he made up, he's still not following the naming convention of putting what TL the page belongs to after the title's name. Can't someone do something? Mr.Xeight 04:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh, I missed this whole discussion. Thanks for adminning me, Dan. And I'll take a look at Likem's stuff... tomorrow. It's late.
 * And PS, I'm starting to really tire of AH.com myself. It's definitely more rigorous than this site, which is good, but it's also very cliquish and full of people who can only be described as "internet bags of a certain sort," if you follow me - which is bad. I just looked over the response to your TL idea back in the day and was pretty embarassed to see such incivility. Benkarnell 04:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It's like you read my mind. Though I do admit, my response was uncalled for. I will however not apologize. I do enjoy the ASB section now, the story about how Hitler uses Alien-space-bats and demonc-seals I actually think is funny. Mr.Xeight 13:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Featured Alternate History
So last month’s Featured AH was chosen by just one user and this month’s is the same one as in August 2008. I still feel we need a new procedure for choosing a featured alternate history instead of just allowing users to act unilaterally or just reuse past year Featured AHs. I realize now though that my original proposal might have been too complicated, so I propose this new version that can be found on my Sandbox: User:Mitro/Sandbox. I got the idea for the format from the Honorverse Wiki. I think it’s a lot less complicated and easier to use. If its acceptable I can add a link to the month templates used for the Featured section so that it will show up on the main page. I also still have my original proposal in case anyone rather use that. Mitro 15:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

European Federation
I'm pretty new to althistory, but i find it all facinating. I was wondering if any of the althists out there were about the european union forming into one nation, and becoming a world superpower rivaling the USA and China. cheers, scott.


 * to get a united europe by 2009, you would probably need a point of departure following the second world war.--Marcpasquin 19:14, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * hmmm, good point. Well i was thinking that the Allies reached berlin first, after invading normandy earlier than 1944. This allowed the whole of western europe to be under allied and capitist control, and to combat the eastern bloc, they formed the european union, which sometime later formed into the european federation.


 * I've decided to create an althistory on the European Federation and would appreciate any help from anyone who is interested in this subject. My e-mail is scott12398@hotmail.com ust incase anyone would like to contact me.

thanks

Byzantine Empire
Can we rename the TL most generically called "Byzantine Empire"? I like surfing the site to find pages involving my most humble ancestors (if that wasn't a blatant lie), but when I search "Byzantine Empire", that particular TL comes up. Mr.Xeight 22:26, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been edited since February so I think its ok to rename it and turn the page into a dismbig. Any suggestions? Mitro 22:55, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe something like "Byzantine Empire Triumphant, or even something unimaginative like "Byzantine World", but I do like the idea of the Roman Kingdom being made into a disambig. Oh and I've finally found time to create a page for F'sW's Greece. Mr.Xeight 22:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll go with the first one ([EDIT] especially since I just found out Byzantine World is already taken) and then use the original article to create a disambig page (I like doing this because I stumble on so many good articles I never knew existed). Cool on FW Greece as well, can't wait to read it. I'm working on Japan's at the moment myself. Mitro 23:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Almost... there!
There's 7987 articles on the wiki! 13 more until 8000! Sorry, just thought I'd mention it. --DarthEinstein 20:53, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

In other languages
What is up with the "In other languages" section? The red links are spilling out of the square. Mitro 23:00, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Help!
Someone has my password to this account. As of today I've had two people asked why I've been reverting edits on their pages. The first time I thought it was simply an accident. The second I know it hasn't been; I've been watching Me, Myself, and Irene since 10 AM Central Time!
 * What I'm afraid of is that literally no one I know knows that I'm involved on this site. It's not a friend playing around who I have my password to. Something terrible is happening and I think the best thing to do after this is to ban my account for a day once I change my password. I'll write another message once I'm ready.

Mr.Xeight 19:43, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

I've changed my password, I'm ready. Dan I'll email you the password. And Mitro if you could email me at mr.xeight@gmail.com. Mr.Xeight 19:49, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Althist of an althist?
Would it be possible to take one of the existing timelines and make a POD within one of them? Is it allowed? Bob 13:13, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Infobox problem
Hi,

For some reason the infoboxes on the Step in a Different Direction began to fuck up today (example) - does anybody have any idea why this happens, if this is only a problem in my end, or whether it is temporary or not?

Thanks in advance, Realismadder 12:33, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Its not just on your end, I have seen it on a lot of other articles as well. Mitro 14:45, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Problem
The page World 1970-1980 (Chaos) has been edited so many times by a vandal anything after the last edit I get a message saying that it can't be undone because there are other edits before it. Can anyone fix the page? Mr.Xeight 22:20, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

There. I just copied in the last reasonable edit over the page. That's kind of brute force way of doing it, but I think that works. Red VS Blue 22:27, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I blocked the two anons causing the trouble. FYI, next time report any vandalism on TSPTF page. Mitro 00:27, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Vampire
Check out this article: Vampire. Apparently this article is currently locked from editing until a decision is made on whether it should remain with the wiki...but that was done in 2006. So what does everyone say? Can it stay or should it be deleted? Mitro 08:25, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

to start this article is well written and could be part of an OTL I say keep it Owen1983 11:55, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Owen I believe you mean to say "ATL" not OTL. Read the article we have on OTL, I think you will find you have been using the acronym wrongly. Mitro 16:21, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me...
or has there been a sudden spike in users who don't understand this Wiki doesn't cover future history.? As of lately, I've seen an increasing number of TLs marked for deletion because they covered future events.Jack Vexx 01:18, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Funny you should mention that, especially since the sentence "While Future Histories are interesting, as is Science Fiction, these are not within the scope of our wiki" shows up on the main page itself. Mitro 03:24, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Locked Out
Hi everyone, I'm back from a (failed) period of fasting from electronics!

To make sure I wasn't tempted to log into the wikis and break my vow (which I did nonetheless), I had another person reset my password to something only they knew. Now (no surprise to me), they forgot the password, and I'm locked out from my account. The person originally made an error when typing in the password, and forgot what the misspelled word was. Things only get worse...

I have three emails, one for business, the other two for pleasure. Apparently none of the three are the ones I registered to this account, so I receive no message to reset my password. Is there anything perhaps the people at Central Wikia can do? Is the only thing I can do is make a new account?

71.239.255.38 01:48, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would try finding the email you used when you originally registered your username. If you really can't find it then I would contact someone at Wikia and see what they can do. If that still doesn't work just create a new username. Mitro 14:13, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

I contacted them last night, but I'm worried with the quality of my computer that the message might not have gone through. I didn't have to send it from email address, my help message was sent through their website. I'm unsure if it got there successfully since I've been having problems sending out messages recently. Is there anything I can do now besides wait?

71.239.255.38 04:53, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * You could always create a new user name so you can edit under a name for the time being. Mitro 18:41, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

It's good to be back :) Mr.Xeight 23:42, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Watchlist
Is anyone else pissed that Wikia ended the watchlist feature? Mitro 01:53, May 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Pissed off might be a little strong. But ya I'm definitely upset. I have to either scroll all the way down to my widget or go through a bunch of menus to get to an update of the pages I'm following. I'm guessing there's no way to restore it here, eh? Red VS Blue 02:08, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you type in "Special:Watchlist" in the search bar, it will bring up the old watchlist. Mitro 03:11, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can change your skin under preferences - that's what I'm using - monobook, I think it is. I still have my watchlist in the upper-right corner. Louisiannan 20:26, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Current events and althistory
How recently can a fork start? Thus, for example - the UK general election being won by a single party/going into a more complex situation at present, or the Polish plane crash causing disruption between Poland and Russia/the plane crash involving participants in the earlier event at Katyn? Jackiespeel 21:57, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * We discourage any timeline from progressing beyond the present day. So if you started a timeline with the polish plane crash, or the UK election, it would have to only go up until 5/9/10, and so it would be a very short alternate history, but it could unfold more real time. 1983: Doomsday goes along this route, with the discovery of history and the exploration of current events. Louisiannan 23:00, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Could a mention be made on the Conventions page/future history section?

Both suggestions could, of course be backdated (ie any UK historical election, hung parliament apart from 1974, and Katyn 60th anniversary plane crash(es) - which might inclued Karol Wojtyla/Pope John Paul II and/or Lech Walesa - I am referring to the April 7 2010 event in my previous posting). Jackiespeel 17:36, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * To be honest I was thinking of doing a UK 2010 Election althistory where the Lib Dems get their 100+ seats they were expecting :p the "role" of that kind of timeline would be largely reactionary (ie the moments afterwards) so it wouldn't really need to go into future issues. Mikebloke 21:44, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Other 2010 possibilities would include various minor parties get significant representations (so effectively several party Parliament), 'one constituency one party', voters' strike (I don't think there is a legal minimum number of votes required as distinct from 'perception of too few votes to be viable), and one major party not having any candidates elected.

And - the 1974 elections and 'rise of the SDP' versions could be develeoped, allowing a longer timeline. Jackiespeel 15:19, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

9/11 Alternate History exemption act
Why is it that, in nearly every timeline I see, no matter how far back the POD is, we always end up with a terrorist attack on September 11th 2001 against the dominant superpower? I don't have quite as much an issue with the abundance of WWIs and WWIIs all starting at the same time across countless AltHists, as they involve large geopolitical trends, but why would a change back in 12th century Rome result in a terrorist attack by a tiny cell of people who probably wouldn't even have been born in the ATL hijacking the same number of planes and crashing them into the same targets as OTL? (I don't think that there is an ATL involving a POD in 12th century Rome, I'm just using it to illustrate my point.)

I'm just wondering if anyone else is as mildly frustrated with this as I am. Fegaxeyl 13:34, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The phenomenom you are referencing is called "parallel history" and is generally a sign of poor alternate history, usually done by beginners. Harry Turtledove is well known for this actually. Despite the implausibility of it, I would not reccomend banning it completely as the title of this topic suggests. Such a thing smacks of censorship and would discourage new editors. Mitro 16:15, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually the title is a reference to TV Tropes wiki, which has a 'Hitler's Time Travel Exemption Act' which involves basically the same thing - no matter how history is changed through time travel, Hitler comes to power (and often does better) regardless. Fegaxeyl 16:41, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember reading a short story on the Hitler vs time travelers angle. It turned out to be some sort of "convention" of time travelers, all coming back to the same date. They ended up killing the "good Hitler" who was replaced by a "bad Hitler" double (or perhaps the "good Hitler" was a double set up by Hitler's regime). Mitro is right, that is poor alternate history. The same thing shows up with with assasinations unless the Alternate history is specifically about saving the particular victim. I recently had to work getting a particular victim in place to be killed by the same person on the same day (the main editor had written the assasination in, and I didn't want to change his work too much).
 * Long story short, no "exemption" need be written, but let this be a warning -- poor alternate history is not followed as faithfully as good alternate history. If a time line does not have the build up of animosity leading to a particular terrorist act, then that act shouldn't happen "on schedule." SouthWriter 01:47, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember reading a short story on the Hitler vs time travelers angle. It turned out to be some sort of "convention" of time travelers, all coming back to the same date. They ended up killing the "good Hitler" who was replaced by a "bad Hitler" double (or perhaps the "good Hitler" was a double set up by Hitler's regime). Mitro is right, that is poor alternate history. The same thing shows up with with assasinations unless the Alternate history is specifically about saving the particular victim. I recently had to work getting a particular victim in place to be killed by the same person on the same day (the main editor had written the assasination in, and I didn't want to change his work too much).
 * Long story short, no "exemption" need be written, but let this be a warning -- poor alternate history is not followed as faithfully as good alternate history. If a time line does not have the build up of animosity leading to a particular terrorist act, then that act shouldn't happen "on schedule." SouthWriter 01:47, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

If there is a 'rise and fall of the Cold War' component to the ATL having 'non-state groups' arise, some of which decide to initiate a conflict with the dominant power/seek to damage/destroy iconic buildings might well occur (there might also be symbolic equivalents: damaging flags, actions on signficant dates etc) - but not necessarily on 11 September. Convergent history rather than parallel history. There is also seeing how a divergent previous story will lead to a different outcome to the same event in both timelines. Jackiespeel 20:59, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Examples of equivalent actions would include - Lenin's tomb on the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution; US survivalist group; followers of Carlos Marighella - and possibly to have some althistories which do converge with OTL on that particular day.

As for the 12th Century Rome-based starting points - variations on the Crusades (including the Popes deciding upon other methods should be tried; or the Fourth Crusade is not directed against Byzantium) and the Investituter Controversy. (If anyone wants to develop either of these 'just ask.') Jackiespeel 18:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Templates:Nationinfo
I have just added a "non-template" version at "Template:Nationinfo." It enables an editor to add more than one OTL equivalent using the Wikipedia page link. Editors basically are adding lines and links as needed to a simple two column chart. If one needed to add a map in the regular place, though, they would have to alter the framework of the chart (not as easy, requiring a chart within the chart). A map above the two column chart, though, would work. Remember, in order to use the chart or the template, it is much easier to copy AND paste in "source" mode. --SouthWriter 22:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia rearrangements
Will Althistory Wiki follow the WP changes - or remain with the rest of the Wikiverse in ege keeping the search box in the left column? Jackiespeel 18:08, June 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess that completely depends on our overlords at Wikia, we don't really have a say in that other than being able to pick a colour for the skin. --Karsten vK (talk) 19:04, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

New Community Project
"The following conversation was removed from the "1983: Doomsday" talk page and placed here since it has little to do with the TL, and relates to the entire Wiki".


 * How bout for a new community project, We have a POD in ancient times? Like say, Alexander the Great dies. Therefore the Persian Empire lasts several more centuries and wipes out Islam when it comes in the 7th century. I'm just making this up as I go... Eastward Expansion 14:11, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * We can take that as a "no," I guess. Go ahead and start another project EE, but those of us that have been building this time line will be putting most of our time on 1983DD. SouthWriter 14:16, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's okay if you all still want Doomsday. I just kinda think we multiple community projects.Eastward Expansion 14:18, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Another community project? I'm sorry East, but most users would likely focus on Doomsday. Yankovic270 14:25, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I like the idea of many community projects. VENEZUELA 14:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm ready to work with this timeline for a long time. And won't just trying to figure out a community project which we all like just cause us to lose interest in 1983DD and hurry over to the new one? Fegaxeyl 14:36, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Alexander the Great thing would be interesting, but I just don't see how it would work out with the POD so far back....too much unwritten history. Plus, we need some sort of event that could create a lot of small but stable states, like in DD. Otherwise, like other time lines, everything would be taken up by 3-4 superstates. It's just not that fun when you have that. Maybe we could have a meteor hitting the earth, or a solar flare/EMP that fries all the electronics worldwide (ever read the book One Second After?). Aliens, maybe, but that would get reaaaalll weird, real fast. BoredMatt 14:42, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * We have a lot of meteor time lines, but they are not open time lines to this one. As for me, I can multitask on several TL's, but I'm sticking with 1983: Doomsday. I'm figuring that things will return to normal when Mitro gets back. As for HAD, you have a point. This is the best timelne on the Wiki and just because some of us have gotten distracted does not mean it's dead. Looking through the archives, I found there was a time when we were down to around three (or four if you count Owen) active members. This TL is basically going through a recession, but everyone eventually pulls out of a recession, eh? Arstarpool 16:08, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Talking about Doomsday, could we maybe get a updated map?--Sunkist- 16:46, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you want a POD that would make major changes but isn't too far back, how about Columbus sailing for Venice or Genoa, who he historically approached before Spain but they turned him down? Or the Margrave of Brandenburg dies or something, causing Brandenburg's personal union with Prussia to end, this would result in no major rival to the emperor's power causing the HRE to last longer and not having a unifying force for Germany. This would likely mean the Russians steamroll over much of Europe, but possibly influence Russian society, bringing about modernization of the political system and no Bolshevik revolution. Who knows. Theres lots of different scenarios.Oerwinde 17:41, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * When 1983: DD started not everyone was behind so why can't a new one start? The people who want to create new timeline can chose their own POD and organize it their way. And the people who want to stick to 1983 can stick to it. And the people who want to multitask can multitask. Truth be told, to other people outside of 1983 (like me), this time line looks uneditable. There is so much history and so much information to process it is a daunting task trying to even create a new country. There is a new generation of people who want a new community project, one they can actually edit and help with. ProfessorMcG 17:52, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. Is anyone watching Wimbledon? This is crazy. ProfessorMcG 17:55, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah! Thanks McG! So who's with us? Who thinks their needs to be a new community project? I kinda like the of Columbus sailing for Genoa. Or maybe Napoleon conquers half the world then dies without an heir, causing the empire to fragment. But anyway, sign you name here if you want to be part of the New Community project!


 * Eastward Expansion 18:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * ProfessorMcG 18:09, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Although I want to help with 1983, but you guys can't be as difficult (not saying you are terribly difficult right now) when you want help to revive this.
 * BoredMatt 18:11, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fedelede 01:37, June 24, 2010 (UTC) who says there can't be two community projects?

I think the Kaiserreich TL I'm working on has great potential as a comunity project, theres so much to be done. The fragmented Europe/India/British empire and US provide a massive area for expansion. Just a thought though. BTW i'l be one of the people multitasking.Vegas adict 18:28, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * So myself, Oer, Yank, South, Pool and Feg wanna continue. That's cool.HAD 18:22, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Zack still contributes a lot. BrianD shows his face from time to time, and McG, Lordganon and Sunkist just got into 1983:DD as well. We lost 5 members, we gained three back... Arstarpool 18:26, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for not ignoring me Arstar ProfessorMcG 18:28, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Add Vegas to our list. So as of June 24, 2010, we have 12 members. It's still the biggest TL on the wiki!Arstarpool 18:31, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, even though not many people signed up, I think we should start Matt and McG!

Anyone like my Napoleon idea? (as mentioned above)

Or do you have your own ideas?Eastward Expansion 19:24, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * East, it's not happening...Just face it, 1983:DD had a bump in the road, but it is nearly back to normal thanks to the point I raised, and so many other who agree with me.Arstarpool 19:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, guys, I've put up a new heading for this discussion. I think there is room for "multitasking" (I do a little of that myself, though I am a bit ADD), but there is plenty of room in the althistory wiki for other projects. I am working with Nuclear Vaccume (NukeVac) on Two Americas, for instance, and he has opened it up for others to help as well. That is a time line that assumes a ceasefire in 1866 (after POD's that enlonged the war) between the USA and CSA. Also, I welcome help on my new time line "No Supernatural Intervention" -- same world history but with a "non-interference" policy on the part of God and all other supernatural forces. If you go over to "NSI" contact me via its discussion page or my talk page first.


 * It looks like the new fellows are wanting something new and easier to edit. Well, they can make new rules when they start the project, but I think our concensus idea works quite well. Keep up the good work "old timers." SouthWriter 19:34, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not an old timer, I just came here in March! Anyways, We DO need something like this, with proposal rules, open talk pages, etc. Arstarpool 19:39, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why don't we use a already existing article? I nominate my Time line call Central World, it's new and small perfect for turning it in a community project. VENEZUELA 20:53, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't want to butt in or anything, but what does a new community project have to do with the DD:1983 talk page? This discussion would be better left for the Nexus or the Althistory talk page, not this page.--Vladivostok 20:57, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'll move it in the next few hours. Arstarpool 21:04, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Vlad. And I didn't know you could do that, Arstar. I at least put it under a different heading here. SouthWriter 21:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean, South? Arstarpool 21:12, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

My comment "I'll move in the next few hours" sounded waaay to admin-like. Arstarpool 21:17, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh, I think you answered your own question, Arstar. Yeah, moving a whole discussion sounds like something an administrator would do. Welcome to the team! :-)


 * What team, anonymous user? Arstarpool 02:32, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was agreeing with you, Arstar, about it being an "admin-like" thing to do. I was making a joke - note the smiley face - at your "promotion" to administration. SouthWriter 05:19, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oooh, Arstar, are you getting at something? ProfessorMcG 02:36, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

We still need to figure out who wants to do the new community project. Write your name below, whether you want to continue with 1983: DD too, it doesn't matter.
 * 1) ProfessorMcG 13:45, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

New TSTPF Members

 * With Mitro, Xi-Reney and Mr. Xeight all gone, this site has gone to crap in terms of organization. I saw we should elect Interim members to the TSTPF in their absences. Anyone with me? Arstarpool 04:14, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, I'm still here, I've recently decided to come out of hibernation. Of course don't expect me long, I've decided to become a chop (or "wanker" if you're British) to show my distate for the current state of the site and will probably be banned a few weeks down the line for being so rude to everyone. But that's okay, at least I'll show to a few people how far gone this site is. Mr.Xeight 05:40, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, while my opinion still counts, I'd like to nominate Yankovic. I know our relationship has become strained in the past, but while I was gone he really blossomed into an integral part of the site and really knows his QSS, QAA, and how to realistically write an article. Make Ms. Christina Nicole proud, Yank :) Mr.Xeight 05:59, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh and Mr. South Writer deserves one as well, even though we never actually directly spoke to each other, I did notice his professionalism and good judgement. Mr.Xeight 06:03, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Mr. X8. I try not to let ideology and stuff like that get in my way. I can even work with Yank! :-) SouthWriter 13:24, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I was about to suggest him, until you edited the page and I lost all my work, Xeight. Arstarpool 06:05, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but that comment came off as a little rude, but hey that's happened to me so many times before; when you get that warning that your edit can't be processed, just copy what you wrote. And sorry for that, too, I know I would always get frustrated when it happened to me. Mr.Xeight 06:07, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Mmkay. So Yank vs. South, hmm.... Arstarpool 06:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Who should be elected to the TSTPF

SouthWriter

Yankovic270


 * cough cough Arstarpool cough cough*

You do know you can have more than one member right? I've forfeited mine just this moment and Mr. Karnell has no intention of returning because he's essentially moved on and I've described to him a horror-story. Besides, if you don't want both to possess the same rank, you can give varying promotions based on who joined first, or who wants it more, etc. Mr.Xeight 06:17, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

If South gets elected then that will get in the way of our friendship!! No! South!!!! ProfessorMcG 13:42, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how that will work, McG. Again, this poll means nothing without approval from the admin(s). Arstarpool 14:02, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is true, Arstar. In fact, they set up a nomination process on this very page. The most recent election put four officers up, with all first being nominated and then seconded. You are not allowed to nominate yourself - or to second the nomination of yourself. So, it only takes two votes (on record with signatures) to be nominated. Then the administrators decide whether to accept the nominees into the Wiki administration. SouthWriter 15:24, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * If we use the poll we don't know who nominated who and who seconded who, someone can vote for themselves again. ProfessorMcG 18:51, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here I am. I have been neglecting my administrative duties, definitely - and it's true that most all of the admins are currently inactive. I favor immediate promotion of all three of the nominees, in order to keep the site running. As it is we're looking at a site with no leaders at all, and that's never a good thing. Is anyone else out there interested in a leadership role? Because there is a desperate need for an more hands in the TSPTF. Benkarnell 19:31, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't mind being a TSPTF member, I have lots of experience with this sort of stuff on one of my other sitesVegas adict 19:40, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK. I've just e-mailed Louisianan and Mitro to get their opinions (I hesitate to unilaterally promote crowds of people). But hopefully there can be quick agreement. Benkarnell 19:43, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * So right now our options are:
 * Vegas
 * South
 * Ars
 * Yank
 * I just like to keep the peace on my Map games and 1983: Doomsday, so I don't think I'm superly qualified, but it would be nice if I could score a position, but I'm not about to go kiss up to the higher-ups to get a position. Arstarpool 20:04, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm concerned, it's not kissing up. The site desperately needs people to step up, and they ought to be (1) willing to do it, (2) active on the wiki, and (3) not a complete jackass. Interestingly, when I became an admin I only met criterion #3 (I was promoted without being asked and was on an extended wikibreak at the time). Benkarnell 20:16, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm concerned, it's not kissing up. The site desperately needs people to step up, and they ought to be (1) willing to do it, (2) active on the wiki, and (3) not a complete jackass. Interestingly, when I became an admin I only met criterion #3 (I was promoted without being asked and was on an extended wikibreak at the time). Benkarnell 20:16, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly why I need to resign, I don't fit any of the criteria. Mr.Xeight 20:20, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I would be willing, I am one of the most active members at the moment, and I can't rate myself on being a jackass. I slip up at times, but for the most part I think I make honest and (relatively) plausible contributions. I have gotten into a couple fights with a user whose name I keep to myself, but for the most part I think that I have helped a few people out. Arstarpool 20:25, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

So...the consensus is that we elect all four, but only for the moment? Or do we vote and only pick 1, still, only for the moment? Haha, Mr. X I doubt your a jackass. ProfessorMcG 22:44, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think this is to elect new members, not temporary members. But I think ONE person should fill in for Mitro for the time being, which means such person will temporarily be given administrative rights. Arstarpool 23:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh no, we need more than one active admin. And right now, nobody on the admin list is active regularly, myself and MrX8 included. Benkarnell 23:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC)