Forum:Age of Glory

Rome
The POD itself regards a very odd figure in Roman history, Justinian II Rhinotmetos. He was known exceptionally well for his devout religiousness, and during his second rule after his ousting, brutality and vengeance.

A particular example of this was when he fled his place of exile, Cherson, in 704. He and a handful of supporters boarded a fishing boat and headed back to Constantinople.

On the way, the little boat is consumed by a raging storm. Fearful of being drowned, Myakes begs Justinian to promise God he will show mercy on all those who have wronged him when he gets back to Constantinople. Justinian refuses, and shakes his fist at the thunderclouds shouting, "If I have mercy on even one of them, may God drown me now!"

Historically, the storm passed easily, and Justinian began a reign of terror shortly after regaining the throne. But what if the storm only threw him and some others overboard, nearly drowning them? Given Justinian's very pious nature, he most likely would have seen this as a sign from God to change his ways.

Justinian II's crew approaches the court of Tervel of Bulgaria, and Tervel agrees to assist in Justinian's coup, in return for additions to Bulgaria's treasury and territory. Also, Tervel would be elevated to Caesar (becoming Caesar Terbilius) within Romania, and would be married to his daughter.

In the spring of 705, the army of Romans and Bulgars besieges Constantinople and ousts Emperor Tiberius, whom he would later banish to Mount Athos. However, he would elevate his brothers Heralcius and Leontius to Strategoi, which would greatly affect war effort. Patriarch Callinicus would be exiled to Crimea, replaced by appointment by Cyrus.

Over the period between 706-722, Justinian the Magnificent would focus on reforming the Empire and resecuring boundaries in Italy, the Balkans, Cyprus, Anatolia, and much of the Caucasus. Romania would also aid the Caliphate in building the Great Mosque of Damascus, providing craftsmen.

Canuck2012 (talk) 20:16, September 17, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

France
During the 780s-800s, Charlemagne expanded the Frankish Realm across roughly what is France, Germany, and the Low Countries, and invaded Romania after the Papacy disregarded Empress Irene as ruler of the Roman Empire. Charlemagne failed to capture Rome, and after the death of Charlemagne in 814, the Righteous Roman Empire collapsed into East and West Francia, aswell as Allamania.

By 840, East Francia was confined only to Burgundy, and thus became a Roman tributary state known as Burgundy. West Francia, now referred to as simply Francia or France, would enjoy a few decades of prosperity before collapsing into Brittany, Aquitaine, Gascony, Navarre, Toulouse, Neustria, Flanders, and Champagne.

Germany
Germany split from the Righteous Roman Empire as Allamania, along with France and Burgundy. Germany suffered greatly from Slavic, Roman, and Nordic invasions, and eventually dissolved into Lorraine, Saxony, Franconia, Swabia, Bavaria, Thuringia, Bohemia, Moravia, Austria, Carinthia, Holland, Luxembourg, Brandenburg, and Pomerania.

Arabia
In 705, an Armenian revolt, deposing Smbat VI Bagratuni and other princes. Many nobles are rounded up in churches in Nakhchevan and burned to death. Later in the year, the Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan dies and is succeeded by his son al-walid ibn Abd al-Malik.

China
In 660 Emperor Gaozong of Tang China died at a banquet, reportedly poisoned by Wu Zhao, who in a power grab, declared herself Empress Zetian of an extended Zhou Dynasty. She would secure further power for the Zhous, and would usher in a new era of progressivism that improved gender equality, and led to further trade between China and Romania, though contact was still limited.

However, conservatives led by Ruizong's brother, Emperor Zhongzhong and Chancellor Zhang Jianzhi, attempted to oust him. Although unsuccesful in gaining the whole country, southern China fell underneath the resurgent Tang, with their capital at Jiankang (modern Nanjing).

The Progressive Zhou eventually reunited China underneath Emperor Xuanzong in 730, and China entered a period of prosperity not seen until the rise of the Ming.

However, the Zhou entered a period of decline after stagnation due to external events and natural disasters, and eventually collapsed in 907, though a remnant government remained in the northeast, which saw the rise of importance of what would become Beijing.

The Song dominated life in the South, while the Xia took over what corresponds to OTL Gansu and Shanxi. China would remain divided until the Mongol conquests.

~Can

China and Europe were not in direct contact. Not even close to it, as a matter of fact. The Romans wouldn't even know of a change in the ruler of China. Those reforms are also far too much. Lordganon (talk) 17:48, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

And that's if they actually knew of the Chinese at all. Any trade with them would be through the Arabs, on the Silk road, etc. During The crusades, there was that whole myth of Prester John, whose lands roughly corresponded to Mongolia and China.

Now, the man who came at Eastern Europe was not Prester John.

Though he might have pressed a John once.

The Royal Guns (talk) 19:24, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

The Romans did know of China. They found Chinese remains in a Roman era graveyard in I think Milan? And besides, with Wu Zetian's progressiviness China could have come into contact with Rome, at some point.

Canuck2012 (talk) 21:09, September 18, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

Oh, they knew of the Chinese, and vice-versa. But were they in contact? No. Representatives of the two nations were in passing contact only a few times, most notably when a Chinese diplomat was in modern Persia on a massive trip around everywhere during the waning days of Rome. Past that, there's only a few claimed embassies to China, which were, realistically, just merchants hired by the Roman emperors to give them presents. Other contact was just chance meetings of merchants inside of Central Asia.

Progressiveness has nothing to do with it - there is just no contact between them, and no way to have it happen. Distance, simply put.

Those remains aren't Chinese.

The Progressiveness, and any sort of contact with Rome, just isn't happening.

Lordganon (talk) 21:48, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Could you give me some advice on how to make this more accurate, or how to acchieve these outcomes? The Internet can only provide so much.

Canuck2012 (talk) 22:02, September 18, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

...Nor did they trade directly, really. Almost all of their trade went through India. Trade winds more or less dictated that.

The gender equality bit is the worst part. It simply wouldn't happen.

Lose the Rome and progressive bits.

Lordganon (talk) 22:25, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't really mean direct. I know they would have only traded through India.

I meant gender equality as in equal for the era. It wouldn't have been as good as it is today, and even today it's iffy.

What do you mean by the Rome bits?

76.11.101.57 23:43, September 18, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

If you didn't mean "direct," then why did you say it?

There is no such thing as "equal for the era" when it comes to that. Women were nothing in their eyes, and that wouldn't change.

Rome bits - as in all references to Rome and China interacting.

Lordganon (talk) 01:00, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

-_- no one laughed at my pun.

jk. Not sure if you got it. Prester John, Pressed a John?

Well, actually, the Romans would trade with the Arabs/ Persians, if they went by land, who would either directly trade with the Chinese, or with Indians who would then trade with the Chinese. So... no interaction beyond merchants, and even then rarely, since it's either through Persia or India...

And as LG said, no embassies. Nor would the Chinese care. They're happy.

The Royal Guns (talk) 19:19, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Umm...I don't know who Prester John is?

Even with Wu Zetian's reign? That's hard to believe. I mean yes, there wouldn't be as much as today, but Wu Zetian did attempt to prove women could, and if she had a longer reign, couldn't she have changed some perception, so that things could change by a small margin?

And could you guys help with dynastic stuff?

Canuck2012 (talk) 20:20, September 19, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012