Talk:1983: Doomsday/Former Proposals 20

Recently I adopted the many stubs and unfinished pages of the RTFA. I believe the page on Clipperton Island I wrote is now ready to become canon. Mscoree (talk) 15:02, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

No you most decidedly did not do so. You did not follow a single rule about adopting articles, tried to take over articles you did not ask about whatsoever, and tried to do it despite objections to the idea. Really, you're lucky you were not blocked for that stunt.

As for this article, that is not remotely true. Nothing in it conforms to canon, and this is an uninhabited island. In other words, there is no point to it.

So, given both that and precedent for such islands... Any objections to marking this obsolete?

Lordganon (talk) 00:45, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Mitro, the original RTFA author made special note of Clipperton Island on the page, and if you read through the article it isn't uninhabitated. As far as I can tell there is nothing that goes against cannon. Mscoree (talk) 14:23, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Could not be further from the truth.

The island is mentioned in the same light even on wikipedia. It is listed on that article like it is simply because it is a geographical territory that they control. Means nothing else.

As stated: I did read the article, though you really did not pay attention to anything I said about it. The island is not capable of sustaining long-term settlement, at all.

Thus, it is uninhabited. Unless it has some sort of purpose in the DD work, then the article holds no purpose whatsoever. You have none, so there is no point to it. As such, it would go the same way as other similar articles.

So, once again: Any objections to marking this obsolete?

Lordganon (talk) 10:56, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Just an undertaking to better explain the Union. Thoughts and suggestions can be made on the talkpage. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:00, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Any objections to graduation? It's basically a rehashing of old content, after all. Lordganon (talk) 10:01, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

None with me! :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:35, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Dragonhead
An article on another rock band, akin to Detonation.

I've been thinking of expanding the sections on music, but until now, never got round to it.

Ready for grad soon. Just need a couple more things in the history section. Should be done by, say, Monday?

Two days early!

Any objections to graduation?

You really don't have enough time between that second Rock Opera and the album before it, Guns - delay it a year or so, and change the history part about it slightly to reflect that.

Past that, no objections.

Lordganon (talk) 09:34, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ok then.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  21:26, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

I changed it to December; now they had a full year to work on it.

Do I still have to wait for another week?

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  21:27, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

UIP is finally moving on the smaller breakaway states. Lordganon (talk) 11:30, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Ready for Grad?

Does seem that way. Objections? Lordganon (talk) 09:23, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, the article seems done and dusted. :)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:36, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Republic of Maryland
Not in Maryland, USA. A new nation formed from the remains of the Revolutionary Republic of Liberia, West Africa. Smoggy80 15:58, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Why that for the name? Lordganon 10:24, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

The area used to be called the Republic of Maryland before it was included into Liberia--Smoggy80 17:16, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Any objections to graduating this as a stub? Lordganon (talk) 10:16, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

The RRL War
On going war between the RRL and the forces of the Ivory Coast/Federation of Liberia and combined WAU.--Smoggy80 17:28, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

That name is... a touch excessive. You should probably shorten it a bit, Smog. Lordganon 08:01, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Not what I meant, Smog. Something involving the leader of the RRL, or the geographic location, would work far better. Lordganon 03:34, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Wars all finished now, just need to tweek is slightly before its ready for graduation--Smoggy80 15:59, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

And, give it a name. Lordganon 10:20, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

What would you recommend?--Smoggy80 17:15, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

How about simply "Liberian War of 2012"? SouthWriter (talk) 17:37, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

There's already been a "war" of sorts in the area this year. I mean, it works, but....

Smog, using some sort of geographical location, like the capital or where the fighting started, or the leader of the RRL, for the name would work well.

Lordganon 12:18, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Any objections to graduation? I'll make some sort of name change for it if it does graduate, though. Lordganon (talk) 10:18, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic
A page linked to Western Sahara/Pais Del Oro/Spanish Republic.

Just need to know what it controls in Western Africa.--Smoggy80 15:06, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

See my notes to your questions on other pages. Basically, take the map on the Western Sahara page as being correct.

But, besides that, it needs to be done to be graduated, so it does need more than just that.

Lordganon 00:44, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'm opening this up for adoption--Smoggy80 11:19, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Monster Pumpkin is interested in adopting--Smoggy80 17:41, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

And he has adopted it--Smoggy80 15:02, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Would there be any objections to graduating this as a stub? Lordganon (talk) 10:13, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Nation in former Liberia--Smoggy80 16:59, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

What do I need to add to this to get it graduated?--Smoggy80 (talk) 14:54, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

At this point, Smog, there's pretty much just a history. Not not much, at that. Really, I think that anything else being added would help. Lordganon (talk) 06:42, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

...Would there be any objections to graduating this as a stub? Lordganon (talk) 10:16, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Tebou People
Another place holder -- for the Tebou tribe living in the southern portion of former Libya. SouthWriter

Now, a general article on the people themselves? That may work, so long as it doesn't go too far. Lordganon 08:26, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Please remove references to Northern Chad, (which was abandoned due to drought and reinhabited by tribes from the south and east) and Niger (same thing abandoned and taken over by Tamahaq and Tamarrasset) also niger doesn't exist anymore.--Smoggy80 19:12, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I've reworded the intro paragraph it now reads in full:

"The Tebou people were historically spread out over the southern part of the former Libya (now the Egyptian province of Al Kafrah and a portion of presently disputed lands), eastern regions of the former Niger and much of northern Chad. The tribes were decimated in the drought of 1984, and then by the civil war in Chad. Only those acclimated to desert living surviving without assimilation into urban areas."

Should I change the caption under the map as well? And also, how should we spell "Tebou"? It appears in so many different variations.SouthWriter 20:13, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Should probably change it to say "Toubou." That seems to be what is usually used. Lordganon 01:11, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

The droughts occurred between 84 and 89, not just 84--Smoggy80 15:17, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I changed the reference to reflect that. Thanks. SouthWriter 19:18, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

I've started to link this page to the Tamahaq page--Smoggy80 19:51, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

As this area is now covered by my nation of Tamahaq, I would like to adopt this page--Smoggy80 13:54, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

If there are no objections by the 24th April, then i will adopt this page--Smoggy80 15:19, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

So no objections, i'll adopt this page, aiming for stub status, anything needing to be added?--Smoggy80 12:05, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Is this ready for graduation? Arstar talk 18:48, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Been waiting on Smog to say she's done, like usual. Figure that since she hasn't, it's not ready. Can wait until then. Lordganon (talk) 06:25, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Suppose that it's time to start dealing with these old ones.

Any objections to graduating this as a stub?

Lordganon (talk) 09:56, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Azanian League
So, its been canon for a few years, but no one has done anything regarding it, so I figured it was about time. Oerwinde 06:45, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Is this finished? :/ Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:28, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

There's a whole bunch of sections with no info. The Royal Guns (talk) 14:21, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Any objections to graduation as a stub? Lordganon (talk) 10:06, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Proposed ECF member state, by me. Objections? Regentage 02:13, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Needs more of a recent history. Also, some sort of reasoning for the flag, considering how different it is from the flag the region has had for a long time. Lordganon 04:12, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Addressed those concerns. Is it sufficient? Let me know if there's anything else. ^^ Regentage 16:14, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well, more content with regards to Guatemala should probably be added. Lordganon 00:18, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

Added some more in reference to history with Guatemala. Is that good? There's quite a few references, now. Regentage 20:21, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

....that's probably taking it a bit too far, imo. Compare it to the Guatemala article a touch to see what I mean.

Really, the idea that the ECF and Guatemala would be at that degree of loggerheads is just too much.

Lordganon 02:14, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Updated, removing the most outstanding of conflicts. It consists of the same things as in the Guatemala article now; icy but existing relations, troop massing and saber rattling. Regentage 14:03, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Much better. Lordganon 18:30, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Excellent! Anything further, anyone? Regentage 02:58, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * I did not go back and look at this in the process of forming over the past few days, but I did research a little on Belize and its government. Prime Minister and founding father George Cadle Price seems to have been too easily dismissed as a figure as a result of the "democratic socialist" uprising by apparently fictional Tomás Renault, looks to me to be a little overkill. In OTL the PUP was defeated by the UDP in 1984, so it is reasonable to hold that the people were getting tired of the "People's" party, but an revolution in a small town does not seem plausible. However, I am much more comfortable with using real people (or their hypothetical descendants) in an alternate history.


 * Anything is possible, if not plausible, in alternate history. Your having the "remaining British troops" join the rebellion is another problem I see. If anything, the 1500 troops left behind would support the government that they were sworn to protect. And unless these troops largely abandoned their post for more pleasant surroundings (like Jamaica, for instance), they would be the bulk of the military of the country. The rather rapid and total success of the revolution seem to me to be far out of kilter with the nature of the population as it was in 1986.


 * If this socialist government arose like you present it, it would have a problem with being accepted among the ECF. I may be wrong, and your article seems well put together, but I it seems to me that it has more in common with its neighbors in Central America than it does the ECF.


 * One more minor detail, you need to include the Republic of Yucatan as being to the north. I realize that the rise to poser of Renault is the keystone of your article -- and a really good piece of fiction I might add -- so if the community approves, I see no problem in letting it be part of this time line. I have no ax to grind, I just offer an differing opinion. I thank you for your contributions so far and look forward to many to come. SouthWriter 03:35, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Seeing as this page if mostly complete, can we graduate it? Arstar 21:53, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

No. There is a major objection still in place that South noted. And, on another note, it's an objection I agree with, too. I must object to talk of it graduating. Lordganon (talk) 23:33, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I'm back. In retrospect I agree with SouthWriter's objections and I have done an overhaul of this article. Any thoughts on it now? I hope it is more plausible. Regentage (talk) 20:27, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Far better.

Biggest concern I have at this point is that it is not, nor has it ever been, a "republic." And even with DD, I find a change unlikely. Either way, it needs to be accounted for.

Lordganon (talk) 07:36, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Fair point. I've changed references to their government as a Parliamentary Republic to Parliamentary Democracy, which is more accurate and how they've self-described since independence. Thank you. Any other concerns, from anyone? Regentage (talk) 15:27, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

That really only kinda "half" dealt with it. Where's the Governor-General, or a similar role?

For that matter, the exact same problem exists with the other ECF members you've done.

Lordganon (talk) 08:48, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Done. Regentage (talk) 18:23, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

This has been done for quite a while. Any further objections to graduation, from anyone? Regentage (talk) 01:38, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Looking over things, I hold a single concern - the man you list as the current opposition leader. Can't find a single reference to the man actually existing. You need to change that one to someone that does.

Otherwise, it's good. You've dealt with the other concerns we've brought up.

Lordganon (talk) 06:13, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, thank you. Done and done. Anything else? Regentage (talk) 15:58, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Don't believe so. Any objections to graduation? Lordganon (talk) 08:33, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Proposed nation on the west coast of Africa. Proposed by Monster Pumpkin 04:21, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Any objections to graduation? Lordganon (talk) 10:04, October 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * It is high time to graduate this one IMO. I would like to add a note on language and education. Benkarnell (talk) 13:13, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ben! I thought you left!

A proposal by Yank. Seems to be for some sort of state near the Apalachicola National Forest of Florida. Lordganon 22:32, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hey Yank, this is my ancestral home. (I lived in Wewahitchca, Blountstown, Bristol AND Hosford. My mom and dad met in Port Saint Joe. What do you have in mind? According to sources in the area, that forrest would have been the safest place in the world to be living in the case of a nuclear war. I won't let just anthing pass on this one. I would really rather adopt it from you, but I am willing to hear what you have in mind. SouthWriter 19:19, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Deal. I have way too much stuff on my plate. The article is basically my riff on the idea behind New Montgomery. The living-in-a-forest part, not the rascist part.

Yank 19:25, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

I hereby officially adopt this proposal as my own. I will try to be wary of the "home town syndrome." SouthWriter 19:46, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

As south has adopted this, is it ok to graduate?--Smoggy80 15:25, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Smog, there's no content. It's not ok. Lordganon 20:21, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can we garaduate this article as a stub? South has mentioned he will fill it in later. Arstar 21:50, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Not only is it not mentioned as a state in any location but this article, there's no content. Yes, I object to any form of graduation. Lordganon (talk) 23:39, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I finally got around to filling in the history (to some extent). I tried to remain true to the spirit of Yank's original idea. Nowadays it is a state, not independent, but I think I left it open enough to build a history later. All that's left is to explain the Info Box in the "Present Day" subsection and pertenent information under "Governement" and "Economics." SouthWriter (talk) 20:40, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Any objections to graduation as a stub? Lordganon (talk) 10:08, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Latgalia
A proposal for an article on a Latgalian state in former Latvia.

Yank 20:33, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Is anything happening with this article, it appears to be a bare bones page--Smoggy80 15:22, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yank's working on it. Lordganon 20:21, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

are you sure? nothings been added since Nov 2011--Smoggy80 14:19, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't mean he's not working on it. Given Yank's edit histories, I expect he will do more in summer on it. Lordganon 21:35, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'll likely not return to it. The vaious map games I'm participating are monopolizing my time on the wiki.

Yank 21:52, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

So can we obsolete this? Arstar talk 22:58, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

No. Not only he not say he was abandoning it, but the procedure is also to try it up for adoption first before doing such a thing. Lordganon (talk) 07:22, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

Would there be any objections to both putting this up for adoption, and graduating it as a stub? Lordganon (talk) 10:02, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

An obsolete article resurrected by myself. Its a brigand group made up of former fraternity guys who banded together shortly after Doomsday when chaos broke out across Central Illinois. Mitro 16:18, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Defunct state, armed faction sans territory, something else? Benkarnell 23:06, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * More like what I am doing with the Chinks in Eureka. Just another group of survivors who became hard cases. Mitro 04:20, November 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello, I have a few ideas that in process that would help expand and grow the Illini Republic area. I may start contributing soon, I just need to finalize how I am going to approach the topic. I am open to discuss, contribute, collaborate, or critique.
 * Jroak 06:48, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

Considering our rules, the only thing you're doing is discussing. Lordganon 07:24, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

The history of the Illini Republic can be made in narrative form, with bits and pieces of documentation and documentaitonal clippings chronicalling post-Doomsday events. Based on the Doomsday history of Illinois, a timeline of events can be established chronicaling the evolution of a midwest unversity town into a land of lawlessness. I am approaching this from three lines of ATL historical narrative.

1. At the time of Doomsday, a senior undergraduate student at the University of Illinois, who is originally from Chicago, now finds himself in the role of a student, refugee, graduate student researcher, and later one of the last official administrators of the University. The role of the University during this time, its attempts to stay neutral, and an evacuation of "knowledge," both books and people, to Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN shortly before the local civil government collapsed in 1986.

2. An Illinois Central Gulf railroad engineer whose knowledge of the region's current and former rail routes allows for resource scavenging and for those who want out, a less vulnerable way to travel than staying on the main roads. With help from other surviving Champaign-Urbana (C-U for short) railroad workers, many of whom would have been incapacitated from the strike at Chanute AFB, if they had been on yard duty that night, prove valuable in this capacity. Air Force technicians who were in Champaign at the time also prove helpful to keeping basic machinery usable. But not everyone wants to play nice with this collective knowhow of knowledge.

3. Bulletins and minutes from post-Doomsday news spreads and campus meetings.

Premises (Still formulating details)

The C-U area would have been immensely affected by a strike at Chanute Air Force Base in Rantoul, IL. As a training base for aircraft, ICBM, and eletronics maintainance, its target value would to be deny repair and recovery. I'm going to life hard and say it received two hits in the 100Kt range.

Aside from flash and blast damage, if the winds were from the south, this would blow some of the short term fallout away from C-U. I'll deal with this detail when I find out what weather conditions were like that day.

Any college town (and rural area) for that matter will have more than its fair share of 20 year old vehicles. 1983 C-U will be no different. Vehicles that survived the EMP and can run are highly sought after. Unfortunately this will create some initial problems in post-Doomsday.

Refugees from Decatur would probably find it easier to come to C-U via I-72. Refugees from the Chicago area are few in number and start to die relatively quickly. Refugees from Indianapolis travel west on I-74. Those who settle in Danville have fare better than those in the C-U area.

Any thoughts? Jroak24.1.29.37 07:34, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

The majority of that is things that aren't possible, or are at best logic holes. The three points are not possible.

Past that....

Winds go east-northeast. Meaning that the area gets whacked with radiation from Springfield and Decatur.

Only blast, and likely bigger than that.

No fuel, no vehicles. Simple.

Only survivors from Decatur could get there, at all. And that's kinda doubtful

And you've missed the point of this. These are brigands in the ruins. With little to nothing to do with the previous inhabitants.

See previous statement, too.

Lordganon 07:57, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, JR, thank you for your interest. That you have done some work on getting this article - only a place holder for at least a year - on the road to realization is commendable. The proper protocol is to ask to 'adopt' the article, seeing that it has been dormant for so long. Mitro is no longer an active editor, but he does check his messages occasionally, so his permission should be easy to come by.


 * As for the scenario, make sure you read what Mitro wrote on the Eureka page and aim at getting to that point in much the same way as did the "Chinks." As Mitro wrote in February the Illini Republic was founded by "University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign fraternity and sorority members who banded together during the collapse of Urbana–Champaign." There is, therefore a link to the "previous inhabitants." However, the evacuation of Urbana-Champaign and the university may not have been as smooth as you see it.


 * The train and the cars would be available with only what fuel was in their tanks. Fuel out of storage facilities would be accessed only by mechanical pumps that would have to be manually operated - and then only if authorities could keep them out of the hands of bandits and such. That being said, the cars would be used sparingly, and possibly only by whatever emergency governments that arose. However, the evacuation by auto would have been possible in cars with a fair amount of fuel even with low efficiency, for the trip was only 90 miles.


 * Assuming for a moment that a locomotive with adequate fuel had been available, please remember that tracks may not have been clear everywhere. And without communications the engineer would not know of any blocked tracks. Exit during comparitively quiet times would have been possible, though.


 * All that being said, the evacuation would only been nominally successful, given the picture that Mitro draws in his Eureka article. I would not encourage anything like the orderliness that you portray in your notes. SouthWriter 20:38, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just a question here, but it seems a bit unlikely that the local government would survive so long as three years. The Japanese government nearly collapsed in WW II despite just two cities (Hiroshima and Nagaski) being nuked. Even then, it still had quite a bit of power, but it was an entire country. Here, most of the authorities would be shocked to the level of the refugees. As long as we are assuming that the air force base was nuked, army support would be very limited. I would estimate a local government collapse at a year at the most.
 * 98.14.126.83 01:16, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

This has been nothing but a sentence now for about a year-and-a-half. Any objections for it being marked Obsolete? SouthWriter 21:33, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yes - it is referred to in other articles, with links and everything. Mitro's said a few times he's going to finish it, too. At this point, the best spot for this is as a proposal - I don't think it's good enough to be a stub right now, though it could possibly qualify for that. But obsolete, no - I must object to that. Lordganon 23:43, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. So, Mitro, what do you want to do with this? SouthWriter 00:42, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Given the fact it is already referred to in other articles, can we pass this as a stub.? I think it is crazy that nearly two years later this article is still on the proposal list. If we don't graduate it now, I doubt it will ever be graduated. Arstar 21:42, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

It is mentioned in one other place. And there is still no content. I must object to any graduation at this point. Lordganon (talk) 23:44, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt Mitro will come back to fill it out soon so I am graduating this as a stub if nobody else has any objections. Arstar talk 22:42, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

No, you will not be. I object, strenuously. Lordganon (talk) 07:18, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

Objections to graduation as a stub? Promise I'll scribble something on it to add to it when it graduates. Lordganon (talk) 09:59, October 16, 2013 (UTC)