Talk:Huguang-Zhongyuan (1983: Doomsday)

Both parties run it through the process.

Your new edits - Enshi is reasonable, Wuhan is not.

Lordganon 03:01, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

What about a settlement named Wuhan and Wuchang built outside of OTL Wuhan?

Canuck2012 23:34, July 2, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

No. It's not just a matter of the nuked city, but also the Dragons. Until they are gone, that's within range. Lordganon 04:55, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Ah yes. I haven't taken a look at the map lately. That's dangerously close to the Dragons. Any colonists would surely be killed.

Canuck2012 18:23, July 3, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

So you won't accept the name I proposed? :( Imperium Guy 20:27, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

More or less, Can. Though enslaved is likely closer to the truth. Lordganon 00:57, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

No, Imp. Thanks for the consideration, but I think the current name sounds better.

And I didn't thin of enslaved. But that is still a cause for war >:).

Canuck2012 13:46, July 4, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

So, looks good. Ready for grad?

The Royal Guns (talk) 09:28, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Are there things that still need a little editing here? It looks good enough for me, but then I could be wrong... Godfrey Raphael (talk) 16:06, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it still gives them tech they wouldn't have. Lordganon (talk) 07:43, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, and what exactly is this tech? Godfrey Raphael (talk) 12:18, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Various tech levels are often mentioned. As are color TVs, wind farms, aircraft... the list goes on. This is something I've been over with the author before. Lordganon (talk) 12:24, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Canuck's a little active around the wiki right now, although I don't know if he's still interested in continuing the NPRC... Godfrey Raphael (talk) 13:13, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding tech, I have stated in the articled that colour television is not mainstream, only the richest of rich have it. I aslo mentioned how the air force is severely outdated. I'll get onto the wind farm part, I thought I deleted that...

Anyway, I'm not sure how to go about the 2012 election, which would've been in September (I think). Who would be candidates, also for Vice-Presidency? Here's a possible list. Hu Chunhua, Wan Exiang, Shang Yang (artist), Yuan Quan, Cao Dan, Gao Ling?

What parties could they represent? Should I make pages for the political parties to better organize this information?

Canuck2012 (talk) 02:38, February 8, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Can, there is going to be no TVs.

They won't have aircraft - and really, no remotely modern artillery of any kind, either. Definitely no anti-artillery.

Nor are they going to have tech at any of the levels listed.

No need for pages for the parties. But expanding that section would be a plan.

Hu Chunhua was in Tibet in 1983. Would not be here.

Wan Exiang was either in Wuhan, or the USA, in 1983.

Shang Yang would have been in Wuhan too.

Yuan Quan is alive in the area, most likely, but is also a woman. They could hold a high position, but they wouldn't be in charge. Would be some sort of moderate.

Cao Dan would have been in Wuhan.

And the same applies for Gao Ling.

Lordganon (talk) 08:11, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, do other Chinese nations have aircraft and TV? Even black and white? Plus, wouldn't they continue to use the technology which was in Hubei anyway? Unless China only gained aircraft and TV in the 90's, I find this kinda silly.

Wait, so having Yili Wei as President is a stretch, than?

Crap. Who would be available at the time, and for diversity in political parties? Would there people from nearby provinces who could've migrated to the N.P.R.C to escape the chaos?

Canuck2012 (talk) 01:33, February 11, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Overall, no. The inland states, definitely no.

Most of China did not have TVs until very recently otl. Much the same applies for aircraft, let alone the ability to maintain or build them.

And there would be no ability to produce or receive signals, besides.

There is not going to be TVs. And virtually no aircraft.

Nor are any of the tech levels you give going to be the case.

Not just a stretch, but not possible.

Can, this is China. There is no "diversity." Nor would there be.

Lordganon (talk) 03:10, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, but are the political parties I have already enough?

So would Yili have become Chairman? I think she would've, considering the fact that there seems to be a slim pickings for people who could potentially lead the NPRC. I'll keep looking though and shooting names at you.

Also, conquest of the Dragon State would be a bit of a stretch, would'nt it? I'm just thinking that there will be a clash sooner or later as the NPRC grows stronger, and perhaps the NPRC can at least establish an autonomous Republic, or simply oust the regime and impose a new democratic regime with NPRC advisors?

Than again, war with the NPRC would either draw attention or not go well, methinks...

Canuck2012 (talk) 01:52, February 19, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Yili would not come anywhere remotely close to becoming Chairman.

"Bit" of a stretch is an understatement - the NPRC would not be able to get troops that far away, let alone beat the Dragons. The Dragons would beat the stuffing out of them, quite easily.

The lines about technology are still there.

Xiangyang was renamed from "Xiangfan" only three years ago, so it would never have held the name atl. There's also no reason at all to make such a name change to Hanyang - which is the name of part of Wuhan, and makes little sense here.

Lordganon (talk) 04:50, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ready for Grad? Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:35, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Not the place to ask - and no, not ready. The problems have not been addressed. Lordganon (talk) 11:55, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Oops. Forgot about this. Anyway, here are names - Chen Jiulin, Liu Dongdong, Xu Qinxian, Yu Linxiang, Bai Zhijian,  Liu Zhijun, Peng Qinghua, Zhou Qiang, Zhu Guangya, Lee Huan, Cao Dan, Wei Guangqing, Zeng Fangzhi, Yang Chengang, Luo Jing, Guo Jingming, Liagng Guanglie, Bo Yang, Dai Bingguo, and Qiangba Puncog.

The people on this list not from Hubei shouldn't be vetoed immediately, I'd imagine some refugees could gain office.

Also, how would a suffragette movement be going on around this time?

Canuck2012 (talk) 00:27, April 26, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

I have been taking refugees into account, Can.

Chen Jiulin was at university in Beijing.

Liu Dongdong is from Wuhan. Had he not been there, he would have been on military service at an undetermined location.

Xu Qinxian was a general in the army, in change of an armored division. Cannot be exactly sure where it was, but records seem to indicate it would have been in the Beijing military region. Nowhere near this area.

Yu Linxiang was off in the army somewhere. No way to know where.

Bai Zhijian, far as I can determine, is likely to have been in Guangdong. Definitely not near this area.

Liu Zhijun and Peng Qinghua would have been in Beijing.

Zhou Qiang was at university in Chongqing.

Zhu Guangya is by dead today. Would have been in the capital anyway.

Lee Huan was a citizen of Taiwan. Has been there since the end of the civil war, and is dead by today too.

Cao Dan is from Wuhan.

Possible that Wei Guangqing could have survived DD, but the Dragons would likely have got him, and the ruins of Wuhan would be in his way for fleeing west anyway. Very doubtful he could get there, at best.

Zeng Fangzhi is from Wuhan.

Yang Chengang is from Wuhan.

Luo Jing would have been in Beijing, and died in 2009.

Guo Jingming would have been much too far away, with a nuked city between him and this area. Probably lives in Yunnan, however.

Liang Guanglie would have likely lived, but was stationed as the deputy commander of an army group on the east coast somewhere. Would be in Taiwan or Jiangsu if he is still alive atl.

Bo Yang died in 2008, and had lived in Taiwan since 1949.

Dai Bingguo would have either been in Beijing, or at a embassy overseas.

Qiangba Puncog would have been somewhere in southeastern Tibet. Would not be surprised if he was one of the high-ups in that state.

Didn't veto them, Can - never would.

Of these, only Wei Guangqing has any real shot - and I highly doubt this much - of getting to the area.

A suffragette movement, no way.

Lordganon (talk) 02:07, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Damn. I found a long list, but these were the only people alive in the area. I could have the Premier take over, but I'd like to have some opposition and other candidates. The point of the NPRC is to have a more democratic state in China than in our timeline.

Are you sure some people wouldn't support women's rights? It seems somewhat hard to believe, but the NPRC isn't exactly in a position developmentally to be anywhere close to a democracy.

Canuck2012 (talk) 00:21, May 24, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Show more of this list.

Yes, very sure.

Lordganon (talk) 00:56, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

I think this is it. ~Can

Next time post the category rather than all that. Lordganon (talk) 09:18, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Looking through that, all dead or not born. Lordganon (talk) 09:28, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

What would the status of women be in the NPRC, though? Would women be able to serve in the military, have decent educations, own small businesses, and hold some very minor, small civil administration positions? Could women attempt to revolt?

What do you mean, not born? I'm thinking of people from the modern day to succeed the dead Premier, who died in 2004.

Anyway, what about Chen Shiqiang?

Now, for categories:

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_from_Huanggang

Canuck2012 (talk) 23:16, July 6, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Chen Shiqiang would have either northeast of Wuhan in the path of fallout, or more likely off at university, probably in Bejing. No way.

Vast majority of people in that category were dead before 1983. Rest were not in the area.

"Not born" as in born after 1983, so they do not exist.

Only thing they could not do is the military. The idea of a "revolt" is ludicrous.

Can, you've got to drop that goal of yours. I swear, it's what you try for in everything, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 07:52, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm not comfortable with injustice and inequality. It's hard for me to accept anything with such things in this century.

Wait, so everybody's infertile? Help me out here.

So would it make sense just for the Premier to be elected, or can anyone think of anyone else so  he doesn't have full power?

Other than this, what else needs changing?

Also, when this becomes canon, what happens? Do I add the events in this article in the newsfeed from the respective year?

Canuck2012 (talk) 19:06, August 8, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

You may not be comfortable with it, but the simple fact is that it exists. That goes for otl and atl, both in the first world and the third. And it'd be even worse atl.

After the PoD, things change. People move around, meet other people, interact with their spouses differently, etc. Basically, no one born post-DD exists.

He could be elected, but that is mildly doubtful.

As I have noted before on this page, the tech simply is not possible. That summit idea you had, just remove it - it was really not plausible at all. Lose the bold text, as well.

You can add events from here to the newsfeed archives if you want, but it is by no means required for past events.

Lordganon (talk) 10:25, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Bold text? Okay.

What technology would be available, and I thought I added deletion tags to it?

Would it be acceptable to make a person up? Say a child of Luo Qingquan's?

Canuck2012 (talk) 01:32, August 12, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

...I meant remove the bold text, not modify it, lol

Pre-WWI tech, no artillery or anti-artillery, or motorized troops. All stuff I have note on this page before, Can.

Lordganon (talk) 12:56, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ages
Can, could you please fix up this article so we have this nation actually come into play in the region? this article has been a proposal for a long time and it really isn't going to be declared obsolete. Please!! :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:23, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Or else pass it off to me and Imp.

Oops, I forgot about this! I haven't figured out how to get notifications for talk pages or straight-up pages.

I like bold/italics because it helps me. Also, Wiki uses that for names for things, like published works, buidlings, etc.

I still am stuck on people. Can it be acceptable to make up people for the next generation leadership in the NPRC?

So pre-WWI? Got it. Can Gaungxi and Gansu help modernize the NPRC? I know Guangxi's helping industrialize, and I'm pretty sure Gansu has interest in helping resist the PRC and other states.

Can they build cannons?

Canuck2012 (talk) 00:40, October 30, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Right, speaking of Gansu, Imp, what was that thing about the SS...?

The next generation born after DD - and thus fictional but usable - would really not be old enough yet. Doesn't work.

Those two states aren't modern themselves. They couldn't help squat, imo.

Old-style cannons, probably. Nothing post-US Civil War.

Military far too large for the population, however.

Lordganon (talk) 10:14, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Right. At the most they'd be around 29. Assuming they were conceived just as Andropov pushed that Big Red Button. The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!)  21:19, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. Lordganon (talk) 09:27, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I can't seem to find people from the area that aren't killed off besides who is the Premier, so ~30 year olds might have to do.

What would be more reasonable, 175'000?

Okay, so the whole agreeing to help industrialize thign can be deleted than? Or does that apply to the modernizing of armies?

Do any Chinese nations have "modern" weaponry? Does the USSR?

No offense, but I agree with LG, that sig is rather distracting, it actually seems to make it hard to tell where one reply starts and another ends.

Canuck2012 (talk) 00:38, November 2, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Who? What? Where? LG didn't say anything about my sig...

Have the Premier be in charge longer, then.

Still too high. To put it into perspective, the current largest military on earth, North Korea's, has ~4.5% of the population of NK in the regular forces, and ~38.7% in its forces overall. More or less on a war footing, still. A couple other forces of nations in similar situations have similar percentages in their regular forces, and there's only one more "state" with an overall percentage over 10%. Of the 15 countries with more than 5% of their population in their military - most of these are reserves, mind - 9 of them have it for national security (rebels, aggressive neighbors, etc), 5 have it as a remnant (conscription) of Eastern Bloc policies, 1 as a counter to those eastern policies, and the other has it via conscription for the heck of it.

With your number, you have 12.32% of the population of your state in its regular military. Not at all possible, really. Not even the armed camp that is NK is that high, and as it is the people there are starving. Three guesses what that kind of number would do for you.

Now, the number is going to be higher than otl levels here, obviously. But... yours is a bit much. Realistic levels are probably going to be 2% of the population as regular forces, at most, and likely less than that. The full number you have, if mostly reserves being your 300,000 figure would probably be all right, but only if mostly reserves/militia - going with the 2% figure, you're not have more than about 15% of the military be regular.

At a guess, something akin to 40,000 regular soldiers, and your 300,000 overall number would be good.

Yeah, get rid of the industrializing part.

USSR does, as does Taiwan. Macau, Tibet, and Hainan would have modern weapons too. Jiangsu would have some, but not fully equipped by any means.

Have said things about sigs in the past, Guns - but you made yours into a template as requested, so it's fine. Scraw is the one that needs to fix his, not you, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 02:28, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

But would making up a next-gen person be acceptable? And by next-gen I mean someone roughly Obama's age.

Also, I never really considered what the population would be after last year's conquests. Does anyone know?

By this time, will the conquered territories be integrated by now?

When do you think the next expansion can begin?

Canuck2012 (talk) 21:21, November 10, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

No. Still much older than DD.

Not much of an increase, imo. Few tens of thousands.

No.

Few years.

Lordganon (talk) 17:05, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

No as in no Obama or no to making a person up? Could a person from a neighbouring province work? I'll find specifics later, not enougnt time.

Oh, oops. Not sure why I put Obama, 'cause it's not the 2020s yet.

How much progress do you suppose would've been made by this point in reintegrating the borderlands? I guess I mean the state of authority, infrastructure. I suppose they'd be quite slummish, and experience frequent violence.

Canuck2012 (talk) 01:13, November 26, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

No to making someone that age up. And no for Obama's age for reasons you pointed out.

From a neighboring province, you need to justify them getting there.

Virtually none.

Lordganon (talk) 17:49, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, Meng Fei won't work, moved to Nanjing in '82...

What about Lei Han? Liu Jiayi? Wang Hongju? Xie Shijie? Ran Yunfei?

Canuck2012 (talk) 00:37, November 28, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Liu Jiayi, Lei Han, and Ran Yunfei would have died on DD. Xie Shijie would have been somewhere he could not have gotten to this area from.

Wang Hongju, however... not impossible for him to get to this area.

City name still needs to be changed to "Xiangfan," fyi.

Lordganon (talk) 14:15, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I'll have Wang Hongju than.

Really? I quite like that name. Any reason why it wouldn't be changed?

Canuck2012 (talk) 20:03, November 28, 2013 (UTC)Canuck2012

Because not a single one of the factors that led to it being done otl would exist? Lordganon (talk) 13:21, November 29, 2013 (UTC)