User talk:Lordganon

Mitro 03:10, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Archive, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4

Congratulations, Lordganon


You are the winner of the 2011 Stirling Award for Best Writer in a Community Timeline in 2010 for your work in 1983: Doomsday. Though you technically won the award a while ago, I officially congratulate you for your achievements and formally present you with this award. Good luck in the next year! Red VS Blue 17:56, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

USSR's map
Hey LG, I'd like to ask for a favour, if that is ok with you. I was wondering if you would be willing to create a new map for Siberia after the new expansion takes place and is finished somewhere between early May-late June. I'm still sort of leaning towards a push in the direction of the north, but I was hoping to do one towards the south, around five to six months after the one in the north. I decided on this after I looked at Kazakhstan more thoroughly and realized that the USSR didn't have to a large area of Kazakhstan to reach Aralia, only around half of Aktobe and a large part of Kostanay, which would benefit them if wheat could still be grown there.

In any case, let me know if your up for it.--Vladivostok 17:30, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, well, lets look over what I had in mind then. I was thinking of them controling that small part of the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug they aren't already. I was thinking they would expand slightly in Komi, so they would control about half of it. The Arkhangelsk oblast would then take up the majority of the expansion, around 3/4 of it within control. The whole SK annexation happens as planned of course. However, I wasn't sure about Murmansk Oblast. It is fairly empty, other than the Sapmi state, and they aren't really that friendly with the NU. Possible occupation?

Oh, and it would be great if the USSR map would have the various territories and republics highlighted, like the current one has. Once again, thanks for doing this, the current map is getting a bit grainy, lol.--Vladivostok 09:37, April 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well ok then, that is a bit disappointing, as one of the other reasons to enter the region was a port in Murmansk to give them some access to the Atlantic again. Although a port in Arkhangelsk or former SK would probably work just as well. My plan for announcing this was as follows: I'd announce today that the forces amassing on the USSR's western borders were indeed sent out to grab land and to formally annex SK.

Then, I'd also write that the start of this move would take place on the 5th of May as well. You don't have to finish the map by then, there is no rush, as it would take some time (a month, probably more) to acquire the land and secure it. The name I was thinking of would be something like the Northwestern Territory, but I'm open to suggestions.--Vladivostok 10:06, April 28, 2011 (UTC)

I have just now realized I accidentally reverted one of your edits to the Doomsday page. Sorry, I didn't mean anything by it, I was just checking some of the edits on a mobile device and clicked revert by mistake. I welcome the edits and making the list more complete for the USSR.--Vladivostok 17:28, April 28, 2011 (UTC)

Military Alliance to be announced?
I remember you saying that the military alliance between Chumash and Visaili would be announced today October 1, so I was wondering if we were still going along with that or if it was to be put on hold or what? Yes I did read the post on the WCRB news page about Visaili and the Chumash ambassador visiting. Just get back to me when you can about military operations against Ventura and Santa Cruz (I know you said Ventura specifically but Santa Cruz is still a threat, and going down the 101 is pretty much a straight shot into the central coast, also I don't know where you got "mountains between Chumash and Bakersfield" remember I live here and its pretty much a 2 and a half hour drive into Kern and a 3 hour drive into Bakersfield with only a few small hills along the way). Anyways best of luck. Riley.Konner 10:10, October 1, 2011 (UTC) EDIT reversion:Sorry I just noticed that know were in that discussion did you mention any "mountains" that's my mistake and it will never happen again. Riley.Konner 10:33, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've seen what has been posted, and thank you for updating the Chumash page. In addition to the highways mentioned, Chumash can also send a few Bradley tanks to Visali via highway 46 (though that highway is a death trap lol) and 41. Bombing also sounds good, and naval bombardments from Chumash. I'm thinking a battle between the CRS Santa Barbara and a Venturan ship being called a modern battle between the USS Constitution and the HMS Guerriere. Also I'm working on a WCRB post that is a response given by Vilodari Scholairi and his vows to crush both the countries. Also I thought of a name for the Visali-Chumash alliance I'm thinking Organized States of California or the OSC. As for Mozambique that is at the bottom of my to do list, I'll see what happens in a couple of months. Riley.Konner 12:24, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Siberian expansion and the areas around Novgorod, Sapmi and Finland
Hey Ganon, I'd like to propose something regarding the territory the SIberian expansion would cover.

Now, based on the map of the NU, could the Siberians take what is left of Karelia and the area between Novgorod and the NU? This would cause tension and I was thinking of adding a bit about some skirmishes or incidents happening while Northern Hammer took place. Nothing serious but I mean, why hype the return of the USSR into this area if there isn't going to be any tension. Let me know what you think and feel free to say where the borders could start between these countries.Vladivostok 18:08, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yes it is true I haven't been as active as I should have been, sorry about that. In any case, it is a shame that Novgorod controls that area, I was hoping the Siberians would be the ones to acquire the ruins of Leningrad, oh well.

But I was hoping for the annexation of the Kola peninsula, I wanted to have a sort of Berlin airlift event in which the Siberians try and cut off Sampi, only to have the NU basically make their efforts worthless with air support.

I didn't think it was a stretch because the troops that would occupy the area would be from Soviet Karelia, not the principal forces of the USSR.--Vladivostok 11:03, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, after taking a look at the geography of Kola, I see you're right, a lot of mountain ranges are on the peninsula. But they are in the west and north part of the peninsula, the south-east is mostly flat areas. Now, it is true that these areas are difficult to reach, especially because other that some smaller cities on the coast, there aren't any roads. However, they don't actually have to physically patrol the area just yet to stake their claim.

Now of course air support would be scarse at best in the first expansion, but having just a couple of planes patrol the air space in this area would come a long way in discouraging any other group from trying to take that said area.

Now I also just wanted to bring up the new map for the USSR and the area in general. As far as the rest of the expansion, are we on the same page? So, I believe we said when we originally discussed this ages ago that they would take most of Arkhangels oblast, half of the Republic of Komi and Soviet Karelia.Vladivostok 10:43, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Qu'il Tous
So I think for our next step for Qu'il Tous, its time to start getting into some of the more political details of America and France, mostly by created an article for the Prime Ministers of France, Speaker of the House, somethings for the Senate of the US, and maybe a list of British Prime Ministers. Ownerzmcown 03:34, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Spotlight Request
Hi. Alternative History Wiki looks great and I've added it to the approved spotlight list. -- Wendy (talk ) 02:36, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations... Myself?


If I don't leave this here, it will 100% slip my mind, lol. Lordganon 08:43, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Post-War Balkans
Hey, LG, I really like the maps, they really came out well. My only concern is the extent to which Bosnia has expanded, it appears as though they seemed to draw into a lot of Serbia land, which I didn't expect. Of course I'm a bit of a perfectionist so it may just be that I don't like the irregular shape. Anyway, now that the war part is over, I will get around to writing in about it on the Macedonia page. If there's anything left to do just message me.

- Ownerzmcown (talk) 16:58, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Alternate Location for the Protestant Reformation
Would it be plausible for the Protestant Reformation to begin anywhere other than Northern Germany and Switzerland? This is for PMII, and the nations I was wondering about were Are any of these locations plausible? I know that this event would be 50 years away or more in-game, but I am assuming that it would be unlikely for the political landscape in Europe to change drastically during that time to be significantly different from OTL (other than perhaps a Scottish presence on Ireland, a less unified France, or the Ottomans having conquered less of the Balkans than in OTL) LurkerLordB (Talk) 02:08, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hungary
 * Bohemia (perhaps as a revival of Hussitism)
 * The Dutch/Frisian areas
 * (probably northern) France
 * England
 * Scotland
 * Ireland
 * Anywhere on the Balkan side of the Adriatic coast

In the game, currently, I am seeing the most likely cause for the beginning to be a rejection of the massive church taxes. Considering that the Papal states in this game have actually gone to war with another nation, I imagine that they are going to need a much greater source of money. Thus, the idea of a monarch refusing to fund the war seems to be likely. I'll be able to give a better picture in a couple weeks though. LurkerLordB (Talk) 22:59, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

OK: here's the situation: It is 1466, and Scotland is invading Ireland. The English, who want Ireland all to themselves, bring up an ancient old Papal bull and say they have the sole rights to invade Ireland to crush some heretics there. This convinces the Pope to start sending supplies to those heretics to help them resist the invasion of the Scottish. Would Scotland breaking away from the Catholic Church in response to this hypocritical action of the Pope be realistic at this time? LurkerLordB (Talk) 00:16, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

A Soviet Axis
I have another idea about a Soviet Axis. I did a bit of research, and it seems that most of Hitler’s generals wanted to go through N. Belgium, not the Ardennes. What if Hitler listened to those generals and went that way? They would meet high numbers of Allied troops, and could potentially cause a stalemate. Additional troops would pour in from other parts of France and UK, and we could have another WW1 type situation in Belgium or River Somme. Could you check the Timeline again? Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:52, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Also, is an invasion of Switzerland really not going to happen? I found this on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:39, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I suppose that's not plausible. But I saw that Belgian intelligence had figured out Germany would attack through the Ardennes region, and would use paratroopers to go behind the lines. But the Allies didn't listen. What if they had listened?

"In the winter of 1939–1940, the Belgian consul-general in Cologne had anticipated the angle of advance that Von Manstein was planning. Through intelligence reports, they deduced that German forces were concentrating along the Belgian and Luxembourg frontiers. The Belgians were convinced that the Germans would thrust through the Ardennes and to the English Channel with the aim of cutting off the Allied field Armies in Belgium and north-eastern France. They also anticipated that the Germans would try to land airborne and glider forces behind the Allied lines to break open Belgian fortifications. Such warnings were not heeded by the French, or British."

"On March 1940, Swiss intelligence detected six or seven Panzer Divisions on the German-Luxembourg-Belgian border. More motorized divisions had also been detected in the area. French intelligence were informed that the Germans were constructing pontoon bridges partially—about halfway—over the Our River on the Luxembourg-German border[citation needed] through aerial reconnaissance. The French military attaché in the Swiss capital—Berne—warned that the centre of the German assault would come on the Meuse at Sedan, sometime between 8 and 10 May. The report was dated 30 April. These reports had little effect on Gamelin."

Also, the reason the BEF/French forces were forced to evacuate at Dunkirk was because they were surrounded and cut off after German forces invaded France. If Allied forces hadn't rushed into Belgium, couldn't they have slowed down the German invasion?

Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:48, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Also, and yet, Wikipedia says otherwise. It says Manstein’s plan “provoked a storm of protest from the majority of German generals.” (Battle of France, “Adoption of Manstein’s Plan”). Even though Hitler liked his idea, if Manstein had never come to Hitler’s attention, the attack would have gone into Belgium. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:41, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Alright then, if Chamberlain had not appeased Hitler, and stood up to him, could the war have been delayed for another 5-6 months? If then, the entire invasion of France/the Low Countries could have bogged down. Thoughts? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:31, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

Then if the war started in Czechoslovakia, how would the war have gone? There is, obviously, no way for Britain or France to help. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:46, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Also, if Operation Pike had been moved up before the invasion of the Soviet Union, could that have led to war between the USSR and the Allies, thus leading them making an unholy alliance with the Germans? Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:07, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Oh. That's true. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:48, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Then is there any way the invasion of Poland or Germany could have been postponed one year, leading to OP? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:49, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I suppose conflict between Germany and the USSR is inevitable? I think there might be other ways out there, but in case there is really 0 percent probability, what would you say is the best name for the TL? Assuming, of course, that we are going under "no appeasement". PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:56, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. Any ideas on that? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:19, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Dammit I was going to rename it Fall Grün... until I realized there was already a featured TL with that same name. Grr. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:19, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

For the name, how about “Chamberlain Grows a Backbone”? Lol. But more seriously, how about Munich Agreement Failure? Although I like “A Soviet Axis” better :( PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:12, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Or maybe even Case Green, although that is kind of a “copy” of Fall Grün. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:13, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe Chamberlain receives false information that the Germans are under prepared and will not invade Czechoslovakia, and thus gains the courage to stand up to Hitler. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:01, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Is this a good PoD?
 * In 1937, fearing Nazi aggression, the British Secret Intelligence Service managed to recruit an agent in the Nazi Party, who was only known as his code name SONGBIRD. He was a personal aide of Albert Speer. SONGBIRD gave highly accurate information regarding the Nazis and their logistical capabilities, as well as their current stocks of food, weapons, and other supplies. However, in 1938, he sent false information regarding current weapon stocks, which lead to Neville Chamberlain believing that the Wehrmacht is not ready to invade Czechoslovakia in 1938, and will stand down. Due to these, he does not choose the policy of appeasing Hitler, and instead commits British support in case of a German invasion of Czechoslovakia. Hitler invades anyway, and the German army becomes bogged down in Czechoslovakia.

PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:57, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

How about this revised PoD: PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:02, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * In 1932, Hans Oster, an officer of the German Army, does not get into trouble and is not forced to resign. Due to this, he rises and eventually ends up on General Staff prior to the German takeover of Czechoslovakia. After hearing Hitler's plans, Oster went to the British, where he volunteered to be a spy. He was soon code-named SONGBIRD. Oster gave highly accurate information regarding the Nazis and their logistical capabilities, as well as their current stocks of food, weapons and other supplies. However, just before the Munich Agreement in 1938, he accidentally sent false information regarding current weapon stocks, which led Neville Chamberlain to believe that the Wehrmacht is not ready to invade Czechoslovakia in 1938, and would stand down. Due to these, he does not choose the policy of appeasing Hitler, and instead commits British support in case of a German invasion of Czechoslovakia. Hitler invades anyway, and the German army becomes bogged down in Czechoslovakia.

Which is why I chose Oster. In fact, he actually apparently told his friend in the Netherlands when the invasion date of the Low Countries would be, hoping they could delay the Germans. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:20, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

'Nother revised Pod? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:43, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * In 1932, Hans Oster, an officer of the German Army, does not get into an affair with his commanding officer’s wife and is not forced to resign. Due to this, he rises and eventually ends up on General Staff prior to the German takeover of Czechoslovakia. In 1938, during Krystalnacht, his 17 year old daughter Barbara was raped and murdered by drunken Nazis. He became furious at the Nazis-however, in order to keep his life, he kept that a secret. Later that year, after hearing Hitler's plans, Oster went to the British, where he volunteered to be a spy. He was soon code-named SONGBIRD. Oster gave highly accurate information regarding the Nazis and their logistical capabilities, as well as their current stocks of food, weapons and other supplies. However, just before the Munich Agreement in 1938, he accidentally sent false information regarding current weapon stocks, which led Neville Chamberlain to believe that the Wehrmacht is not ready to invade Czechoslovakia in 1938, and would stand down. Due to these, he does not choose the policy of appeasing Hitler, and instead commits British support in case of a German invasion of Czechoslovakia. Hitler invades anyway, and the German army becomes bogged down in Czechoslovakia.

If he had not ended up on the General Staff, would he still have been able to get that information? Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:57, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Also, he had a daughter Barbara who would have been 17 during Krystalnacht. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:58, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Anyhow, I have a finalized PoD, how is it? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:44, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I have another revised PoD, will you look at it? Thanks. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:16, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, revised PoD and revised name at: Hans Oster, the Good Nazi. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:30, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Fack! Any suggestions to the name? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:52, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, although I liked the "Good Nazi" name :( Obviously based off of Albert Speer, the Good Nazi. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:00, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

King and Queen
LG, I just thought of the most insane thing: What would have happened if Princess Charlotte (who was Princess of Wales), became the Queen and married William, Prince of the Netherlands? What would have happened between the two nations? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:02, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

OK, I get it now.

Lol, Victoria and Albert for Belgium. Makes some sense. Yes! Belgium's time of greatness! Forget Congo, let's take all of Southern Africa and Flanders and the BeNeLux! Victory for Belgium! Victory for waffles! Down with pancakes! XD, yes a mighty Belgium would make quite a ridiculous story.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:23, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Couldn't have said it better, mate. Completely true on that point. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:38, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Greenland (1983:DD)
I must admit that I have been out of the loop much of the summer. To top it off, I don't seem to get email alerts when the main talk page of 1983:DD is altered. My mind being elsewhere, I don't think to check there or even wiki-wide posts for that matter.

I say this to perhaps remove the suspicion you might have for my recent reversion of the Greenland stub back to fx's work which you put up for review and then changed after the review was "over." It is not that your arguments were unsound, but rather because you do not seem to have contacted fxgentleman during the review period. If you wish to put the article back under review after notification, I support that move, but I respectfully ask that you do not get into an editing war over this. SouthWriter (talk) 20:52, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

I honestly do not believe you read your talk page, Ganon. Otherwise, your reaction to the revert is explicable. Of course it was a "Community Review," but with no input from the caretaker of the article at all. It is somewhat suspicious that you chose a period when fx is not active to pick on a stub -- not even a full fledged page -- that he had produced and had accepted. Common courtesy would call for at least some feed back from him. I am in a hard place here, Ganon, since it seems only you and I are active in the top tier -- you a lot more than me. I have no choice but to sometimes contradict you. As I point out above, I see no problem in you changing things. It is the way you change things that is a problem. I cannot change you, so I must at times stand against you. --SouthWriter (talk) 04:34, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Questions
1) What if Mark Antony had not by defeated at Actium but instead had won, perhaps even killing Octavian and Agrippa when their ship(s) were accidently rammed by friendly ships even the attempts to flee?

2) What if Julius Caesar had been warned of the Senator's plot and escaped being killed by the Senators?

3) What if Julius Caesar had never been born?

4) What if St.Paul had gone on mission trips to the East intstead of to the West for whatever reason (God, fear of death, etc.) and St.Thomas had preached to the West?

5) What if Julius Caesar, when he was fleeing Alexandria he had been delayed for several minutes and was killed by Arsinoe's forces?

Bobalugee1940 (talk) 00:40, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Stub
I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but you've reverted most of my stub edits on pages. I just want to know, then, what constitutes a stub. Thanks! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 20:37, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I suppose I'll be more thoughtful next time when I attach the category. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:05, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Re:RA Notes
Greetings. Speak of the Devil, I was hoping to get your opinion here, and you beat me to it. Glad you like it, and glad it all came out right. If at all possible, I just wanted to clarify an idea I thought of after reading your comments. What of a 1905-like revolution taking place later on (prior to WWI), and allowing the timeline to sync with 1917 and so on. But I am pretty sure this won't work, so ignore me if it is a bad idea.

I will have to do more reading about the revolution and the civil war, but how different do you mean? Bloodier and longer... would this have any affect towards the formation of the USSR (or even a similar outcome)?

I wasn't aware that the Five Races flag was unpopular (would explain why it isn't used today). But, I don't see any other choice, and I personally like the design (original, identifiable, and simple). My argument would compare this to how Germans weren't too fond of the black-red-gold tricolor, but after Nazi rule (and the Allies doing what they wanted), the tricolor remained. I would see this being the same, especially since Japan would help reestablish a monarchy in China after WWII, and not for the fact that this flag was used multiple times by the Japanese OTL (just look at the flags for and the ).

As for Afghanistan and Persia, no need to worry. I already looked into them and agree that there would be no difference.

Thank you again. Glad you like the idea. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 22:47, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your input. I believe I can work from here. It also may work out for how I have envisioned Alaska being a "White haven," but I need to work on it.


 * I am rather upset that this flag was actually hated (it was quite clever IMHO). But since I see being appointed Emperor, I guess using the Qing flag isn't a bad idea. It would also make sense why EVERYBODY uses it, lol.


 * Also, because I noticed you added a new category, how is Valkyrie Rides biased? (or ASB for that matter?) I didn't see anything wrong with it? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:00, October 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I just thought of something that I would love to get your two cents on. What if Alexander II wasn't assassinated? Russia would have transformed into a (somewhat) constitutional monarchy. I was thinking this could lead to a 1905-like reform, and allowing the revolutions and civil war to be (more or less) the same. What do you think? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:45, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

1983: Doomsday
I couldn't find my original message, so I've restarted it.

Do you know of any improtant post-doomsday cities that aren't claimed yet (worldwide?)

In North America, I'd prefer a central-eastern region, somewhere where's there's room to thrive.

I don't suppose any Pacific or Caribbean islands are available?

Anywhere in the former Congo?

Oh, and by the way, you might want to rename Nanchung to Nanchang and relocate it south of the Dragon State, or whoever made the latest map.

Canuck2012 (talk) 01:48, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

I meant for the map-it still shows Nanchang as being in the west near Sichuan, when it should be south of the Dragon State. There's no such city as Nanchung, only Nanchang, which is in the former province the Dragon State is in.

Canuck2012 (talk) 19:38, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Canuck2012

EoGuy
What do you think about making him a part of the TSPTF because of his simply amazing copyediting work over the past few months? I know that it's supposed to be a year, but I think we can make an exception in this case. Thoughts? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:38, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Edits
Damn, I meant to do this the day it happened, then completely forgot...

But, hey, happy (very belated) 50,000 edits!

even though I am some 2,500 edits late...

The Royal Guns (talk) 18:36, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Questions
1) What if Oliver Cromwell had become King/Emperor/etc. of England, maybe absolute or not; also what is a possible POD for him becoming a monarch

2) What if the royalist won the English Civil War?

3) What if Frederick the Great had children?

4) What if Richard Cromwell had not been incompetent and was able to rule a republican England?

5) What if Zwingli had not died at the Battle of Kappel but instead had survived and fled to either Poland or the Balkans or Scotland?

Bobalugee1940 (talk) 19:27, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's based on game so I can't really write everything about that. It was meant to be only about one war. Also, I'm here only one day, so stuff about "no interest in improving" sounds just - sorry - funny. Chillax mate.

If it's wrong to write only about conflict or add stuff everyday, well - there's nothing much I can do about that. Delete if you wish, or if there is no other way.

Anjin Miura (talk) 08:46, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Grammer vs. Gomez
It occurred to me that Kelsey Grammer of Frasier fame is, in OTL, a registered and proud Republican. Maybe he ought to be the running mate of Brian Williams in Napoleon's World as a conservative counterweight on the National Party ticket instead of the fictional Alex Gomez? He could be the Senator of Florida (where he grew up), for example. What do you think?

KingSweden (talk) 05:05, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

True true, specially since the National Party is more Rockefeller Republican than Tea Party in ATL. OR I could just make Grammer not be a tea partier in his convictions, since I neither Robert Redford, Brian Williams nor Steve Martin are known for being conservatives (particularly Redford) yet in NW they are all part of the National Party.

KingSweden (talk) 17:41, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think I'll just make Grammer the Senate Majority Leader.

KingSweden (talk) 00:22, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh yeah I know I should. How do I do that?

KingSweden (talk) 03:26, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

A Bunraku Sock?
Hey LG, long time no talk. Anyways, I just wanted to bring something to your attention. We have two users (mapgamers really), this guy and this other person, that claim to be brother and sister. However, this whole brother and sister thing really seems to be working out for them, and they're practically allied in most of their map games in common. Call me too presumptive, but do I smell a dirty sock? Or is it a puppet? I hope you catch my wind.

Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 01:41, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hey there. Just thought I'd drop you a line and ask why you took out the changes I made to the "Japanese Victory" page? Vexacus

I do not want to REMOVE anything from it, I want to ADD to it. I;m hoping to adopt the TL

I do not want to break any of the wiki's rules. I do not intend to REMOVE anything from the "Japanese Victory" page, rather I want to add to the start and expand beyond what was originally written. I hope to adopt the page

Vexacus

OK, thank-you for explaining that. And if yhou undo my edits, will I be able to undo your undo if I am allowed to adopt the page?

Vexacus

Prussian Generals
Hey LG. How are you? I was hoping you could provide a list of Generals in the Prussian, Spanish, and Austrian Armies during the Napoleonic Wars. I've been looking everywhere and I ownly found a few, most of them notable. Enclavehunter (talk) 23:15, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thank-you for explaining that to me. I have copied down all the changes I had made and have a list of changes I hope to make if I am allowed to adopt the page. So my fingers, toes any anything else that can be is crossed

Vexacus

Continental Association
What I was thinking several scenarios that would change the American Revolution, all PODs occuring before the continental association.

1) What if the Catholic Quebecois continued the war against the British as Francs-tireurs causing them to be more and more repressed until they eventually go into full open revolt against the British, possibly with the help of the more southern British Colonies.

2) What if the Spanish did not leave in a mass exodus from Florida after the French and Indian War but instead the Spanish crown thought it would be to expensive, or really anything that would stop them from leaving after the war, and the many Spanish Catholics stayed there. Afterwards the similar concessions made to Quebec did not occur and when invited to revolt against the Protestant, repressing, spiteful British they took their chances and joined.

3) What if East and/or West Florida joined the revolution by some other means (use whatever POD you can dream up)

4) What if the Continental Association also imeadiatley banned exports to Britian, thus hurting their economy and supply of wood, food, and unproduced goods. This causes the British to start the revolution earlier, maybe February 1775 or earlier with a battle against the colonial militia. Or perhaps whatever else this effect would have on the revolution.

Bobalugee1940 (talk) 01:27, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

you got a min?
anon user  150.203.223.120  blanked my talk page would you or another admin take care of them for me?

thanks in advance.

Wingman1 05:31, October 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Someone reverted the vandalism. I blocked the user for 6 months. Hope that is alright. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:03, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * yea it's good now. thanks.[[Image:Temp.png|30px]] Wingman1 18:23, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

Quick concept
Greetings, LG. I would like to get your two cents on an idea I just read about. I'm sure you remember that in Russian America, Germany would become divided. So let's assume early on (since all the powers pretty much did), Germany was going to be permanently divided (not temporarily occupied). With that, wouldn't it make more sense for most of the (the parts of Germany that now make up western Poland) to remain in any rump state?

I came across this idea here, and it does make some sense. However, I would like to get your two cents on this before I go any further. For the record, I would intend for southern East Prussia, Danzig, and Upper Silesia to go to Poland. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:10, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

I am glad to help, and I am glad that I didn't go too far on that block.

I am rather confused? I thought you were in favor of a divided Germany (regardless), now you want what happened OTL? If anything, I know where you are (I am loosing interest in this idea myself).

But trying to look at all possibilities, I have one idea that I would like to explore, and would like a second opinion on. Poland is annexed into the Soviet Union after WWII. My reasoning for this would be that (like the Baltic States), Poland was once part of the Soviet Union; and since the Soviets would also annex Mongolia and Uyghuristan ATL, Poland could be interesting. I have read mostly negative opinions on this idea, but considering how different RA is, it might have a better chance here. Along with which, this Polish SSR would not include any part of Germany (obviously excluding Danzig, East Prussia, and Upper Silesia). The remaining parts of the Recovered Territory would remain part of the Soviet-backed Prussia, since there would be no need to add more Germans to the USSR (and possibly as a way for the West to accept a Polish SSR). Since it would be technically part of the USSR, all of East Prussia (including Kaliningrad) would become part of Poland (if not right away, then later [since Russia offered the port to Lithuania later on]), and maybe Lvov would be given to Poland as a sign of good hope. Either way, Poland would become independent around 1991, and may follow the Baltic States towards being anti-Soviet.

And if this is a stupid idea, what would be your take on the ? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:30, October 31, 2012 (UTC)

Adoption of Timeline
My Lord, it is permissible for me for adopting the OFA Chinese Empire timeline and change its basic idea to create a second version of my Myomi Republic timeline? FirstStooge (talk) 07:27, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

This comming Tuesday will be the 1-week I need to wait after PM-ing the original owner of the "Japanese Victory" Page that I&apos;m hoping to be able to adopt. On Tuesday afternoon, I will procede to Stage 2 of the adoption process. I just thought I would let you know in advance so that when I put the Adoption Aplication notice on the page, it does not get edited out

Vexacus 15:02GMT, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

I have left the notice at the top of the page, now all I have to do is wait three days

Vexacus

I have left a note on the talk page. Sorry for the confusion in placing it on the wrong page. I take it the three days has been reset and I now have to wait until Saturday to find out if I can adopt it?

Vexacus (talk) 12:16, October 31, 2012 (UTC)

Then I look forward to Saturday and the reset 3-day waiting period has given me the chance to find some pictures I&apos;ll be posting, if I am able to adopt the TLVexacus (talk) 11:35, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

2012: Doomsday
Lordgano can you please delete my 2012:Doomsday Page (or Random Doomsday because SOMEONE moved it without CONSULTING me first.) because I've decided to make another 2012:Doomsday page not based on a modern version of 1983:Doomsday but what the mayans said that the world would end this year (but prob won't).

Thank You - User:Lewody1 11:39 GMT 01/11/2012

In anticipation of being allowed to adopt the "Japanese Victory" page, I was hoping I could ask your advice. I have written a good deal that takes place before the first date on the page, I have also re-written a lot of what has already been posted and I have several pages worth of stuff to take place after the last post. My question is should I re-post it in chunks or in one fo, what do you think?Vexacus (talk) 13:54, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

In chunks it is. And I'm glad to here it is the wiki axcting funky and not my PC (^_^) Vexacus (talk) 09:57, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not copying films
Actually Lordganon. I haven't seen the 2012 Movie but I've heard about it so if my timeline has got something similar with the film then i'm sorry but i'm not copying it - User:Lewody1 10:45 GMT 02/11/12

Adoption Question
If I am indeed allowed to adopt the "Japanese Victory" page, what happens? Is a notice posted on the page lettign people know or do I get told I've adopted it via my talk page?

Vexacus (talk) 20:33, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Strange Occurance
Hey LG, it's me again. Scraw. Now see here, something strange just happened to me. I was using my uncle's Mac, you see, and I just received a notice in the bottom right hand corner of the page I had just edited saying that I had made the Lucky Edit. As I've mentioned in the past, I know these exist, but I never get them. (The notice, that is.) Curious, I clicked at the bottom that notice that said "See what other badges you can earn!" That led me to my userpage.

You may or may not know this, but I was #4 on the wiki. My userpage now tells me that I am number 12 and that I have lost 990 points.

But, my drop-down list shows all my 72 badges. Apparently, 71 badges had added up to 4300 points. 72 adds up to 3590 points.

Now the big question here is, how?

Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 21:32, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

OK. Thanks.

Hasta la vista, baby. (I'll be back.) 16:12, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Message Left
I have left that message on the talk page and will nowe undo the changes you undid, ok? Vexacus (talk) 15:10, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Text Problem
Can you help me, I need to know the font originally used on the "Japanese Victory" page, but when I copy and past it, it says Helvetica, but when I paste a new section in, it does not match the font originally used

Vexacus (talk) 21:49, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

'''The Anti-Piracy League page is tied to Principia Moderni II. It's my fault, i forgot to put in the proper labeling. Please remove the deletion notice, since it was fixed by Scandinator.AP (talk) 07:13, November 7, 2012 (UTC)'''

??What Font??
Since you said the fonty I have used at the start of the "Japanese Victory" TL looks horrible, what font would you recomend?Vexacus (talk) 10:10, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

More Wiki Problems?
I take it there are more Wiki problems as when I went to check on a badge I am working towards, it now shows the earliest badges I gotVexacus (talk) 11:05, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hello Lordganon. I would like to apologize to you about my behavior a couple months ago. If you recall, I made an article called "Brave New World", which was hastily moved to the Future Wiki and it has now become one of the more successful projects there. Anyways, you contacted me and gave me some info about moving it, and shortly after, I asked a couple questions regarding adding gun articles to the 1983: Doomsday timeline (which I got to say is a marvelous piece of work). In response, you told me that I would not be capable of doing such a thing, as I would be "stepping on the toes of others". My reply to you was less than friendly, and accused you of patronizing me, which was a mistake on my part. I was going through a rough time during the times of those posts and my mood was more... foul than usual. Now that I have explained myself, I would like to say sorry for the behavior that I displayed to you. Hopefully when the time comes, I would like to participate in the 1983: Doomsday project and become a prominent althist writer here, as the entire idea of it is fascinating to me. In the near future, I will contact you or someone else regarding the editorial directives.

Thanks! XtranormalGeek 23:47, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks LG. I do the best as i can. :) Regards Katholico (talk) 03:53, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Adoption Question
I have left a message on the talk page of the user who created the "Japanese Victory at Midway" page, he is tghe same one who created the "Japanese Victory" page whicvh I adopted. If he does not respond withion a week and if no one objects after the three-day waiting period after I have posted my intentions to adopt the page, would I be allowed to remove the page and use it on the "Japanese Victory" page as some of it would fit in very well Vexacus (talk) 12:51, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Barack Obama in Nelson's Death
Hey LG. I was wondering if you could answer a quick question:

Would Barack Obama exist in my ATL: Nelson's Death, should the French own Kenya, and thus Obama's father living in a French Kenya instaed of a British Kenya?

Enclavehunter (talk) 23:33, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Questions Regarding my ATL
Hi, I recently saw that you've labelled my ATL under the categories "Time Travel", "Biased", and "Random".... I was wondering if you could explain to me how this ATL is biased even though I haven't really expanded my timeline yet.... Also, does being included in these categories indicate that this ATL is an unreasonable and faulty ATL? I really want to write a good ATL about the Ming Dynasty during the Chongzhen period, but I couldnt find a good enough POD, please help me!

P.S. Why isn't "Aetas ab Brian" included in the "Time Travel" category? It has 2 people time-travelling after all....

Black Prince of Britannia (talk) 18:03, November 9, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

Perhaps I am being simply annoying and wasting your time, but according to my understandings, in the page "List of PODs", "Aetas ab Brian" clearly states that an Egyptian man fell through time to Ptolemiac Egypt. Also, if you read the descriptions of Carico, you would find that his god-like abilities to create wooden planes, steam engines, and even to go to the extent of adopting Jesus (Jeff Brian, but this is only according to my understandings) could only indicate time-travelling...

Also, if you do have time, I was wondering if you could re-evaluate my ATL after I've finished expanding it.

Thank You! XD

207.6.254.79 03:07, November 11, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

I am really persistent, so for God's sake, please read the following pages...

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperabridgement_(%C3%86tas_ab_Brian)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Roman_timeline_of_invention_(%C3%86tas_ab_Brian)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Cruuxius_Tiberius_Carico_(%C3%86tas_ab_Brian)

If that still does not prove my point (I have no intention of antagonizing the author of "Aetas ab Brian" nor anyone, including you because of this. I'm simply trying to make my point.) Then I believe that I need to get examined for reading-disabilities...

Black Prince of Britannia (talk) 23:17, November 11, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

K, it seems that I'm wrong.... But still, how would you explain the inventions and the genius of Carico? Anyways, it still seems to me to be sort of a "wank" but I shall not press this matter anymore.

Thank you for your help though!

Black Prince of Britannia (talk) 22:57, November 12, 2012 (UTC)Black Prince of Britannia

Re:Russian America Far East
Glad you like the new map. Funny that you should mention it, because I was considering the possibilities. I guess it wouldn't be unreasonable for the Soviets to demand more from China. My only questions about would be how much? For instance, Japan made an Inner Mongolia puppet state in the '30s, and it only comprised of about half of modern day Inner Mongolia (also including the territory that was part of Manchuria).

Since we are discussing a Greater Mongolia, what about a Greater Tibet? I don't know what constituted Tibet prior to the modern-day border, but what would you think about the British demanding more? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:06, November 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's why there's two Mongolias? Doesn't surprise me, but interesting to know. I have made an updated map if you are interested.


 * Since I have your attention, I was wondering if I could get your two cents on another idea I have been thinking about for weeks now. I have been seeing this idea being used a lot lately, and it seems plausible for RA as well. During the Russo-Spanish War (which Russia also offered aid to Mexico), the Russians further stress the Spanish out by going after the Philippines (which was also going through anti-Spanish rebellion). After winning the war, Russia would also demand the islands as part of their winnings. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:52, November 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry for bringing this up on this conversation, but I wanted to get you opinion on something else I've been wanting to do for a while. My sandbox has become more of a directory than a testing ground. I have been considering dividing my sandbox into several separate pages (each related to a specific timeline). I am not sure if this would go against any rules or anything (probably not because there are a lot of pages just for "Mexico"), but it wouldn't hurt to bring it up before I do so. Thank you again. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:30, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Sterling Awards 2012
Greetings LG! I have a question related to this/next years Sterling Awards, and when they will start and what the plan is. I'm asking now becuase Mitro is wondering if it will be possible for me to cover them on his |Alternate History Weekly Update blog once they do get started. I know we were throwing out ideas last year about how to change the awards around, so I was just coming to you to see if you have any definite changes taking place.

If you can give me some heads up so I can cover it/report on it, please let me know so I can plan ahead.

Thanks! Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 16:32, November 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright, thanks for the heads up. I'll most likely just list the nominations on the blog when we start the voting, and provide links to said nominations. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 05:10, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppet alert:
Sockpuppet alert:

This IP, 165.138.65.253, is controlling several nations using different names in Axis vs. Allies Revolutions.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:47, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Lafayette
I was reading about Lafayette and I was wondering what would have happened if he had accepted the Dictatorship of France instead of allowing Louis-Phillipe to become King?

I was thinking that after becoming Dictator he could have wrote a new constitution much like the OTL July Monarchy accept he and his descendants was King.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_du_Motier,_marquis_de_Lafayette#Accession_of_Louis-Philippe

Bobalugee1940 (talk) 00:04, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Adoption Notice
I messaged the creator of the "Japanese Victory at Midway" page a week ago and I have not heard from him, therefore I am letting you know that I have oput up an adoption notice on the talk page for the "Japanese Victory at Midway" TL Vexacus (talk) 23:58, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

How?
How am I violating the rules?Homesun (talk) 14:03, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Please delete
Can you delete all the pages related to North American Democracy except the NAD page itself, I want to start this over and not make it as 'stupid'. Looking back at the pages I see they are totally unrealistic and mostly stupid like "He was Prime Minister and elected president" I was less politically knowing so i want a fresh start. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:53, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

But leave the North Continential Relations, George Bush and Texan related pages. There is nothing wrong with those ~ Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:57, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Actualy delete everything related to NAD, i'm starting a new one so its a fresh start and with different aspects. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:55, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

THANKS :DDDD!!! Umm my new althistory is New America sorta like the last one but "better" more full. I know you were good with giving capitals. Can you see the map on the New America page and give a list of capitals for each nation? Thanks Marcus/Michael Villanova 02:06, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Congressman Milk
I'm not sure why you decided to revert the edits I did. I moved them to a timeline page at Timeline (Congressman Milk),which was also deleted. Do you care to explain this?


 * Maybe you didn't read what I wrote here. I didn't remove anything. I moved them to another page. Also, the page Congressman Milk says that changes are welcome right on the page you edited. I didn't realize that there were pages that are not edited on that are shared by the community and that they only have one editor. I thought the Alt History was a good idea and was going to add more to it, but if that's not allowed I won't do it. Thanks for letting me know. --Pinkkeith (talk) 22:53, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Hello
I thought I would report This to an admin. Make of it what you will. I am withholding judgement.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk)

Yes. Umm... wow. I noticed it too. David got here first, I guess. The Royal Guns (talk) 20:40, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

2012 Bowl Season College Football Pick'em
Its your favorite time of year again, LG. I always post this on your wall first, btw, since you've included your reasoning for each pick both times I've done it :)

NCAA Division I National Championship (Citrus Bowl)

1 Cuba (13-0) vs. 2 Texas (13-0)

Sugar Bowl

16 Kahokia (10-3) vs. 8 Texas A&M (11-1)

Manhattan Bowl 12 Iowa (10-2) vs. 13 Pittsburgh (10-2)

Rose Bowl

4 Washington (12-1) vs. 7 Ohio State (11-2)

Orange Bowl

13 San Diego (10-2) vs. 6 South Carolina (11-1)

Silver Bowl

18 Huron (9-3) vs. 3 Sequoyah (12-1)

Peach Bowl

14 Alabama (10-3) vs. 19 Virginia (9-4)

Texas Bowl

5 Pacifica (11-1) vs. 10 Massachusetts (10-2)

Chicago Bowl

11 Notre Dame (10-3) vs. 15 Louisiana (10-2)

Paradise Bowl

17 Fresno State (13-0) vs. 9 Peninsula (11-2)

KingSweden (talk) 01:58, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

I am sick of this
LG, I believe I have had enough of this. For the past year now, I continually receive comments discrediting my ideas and hard work. Now you have commented on how two of my ideas will not work, and now I have to remove them and this is upsetting for me. It has gotten to the point that I am now fearful of posting any new ideas on the grounds of getting comments that they are not workable. I do not wish for your help to end, I appreciate all the help I can get and I especially like to have my timelines correct; but now that weeks of hard work I have put into these ideas are now just pieces of trash, it has become a frustration and I am not sure how to take it. I am not sure how me informing you all of this will be of any help, but it is something I have to say. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:29, December 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * I really do apologize for my actions. It was uncalled for and I feel rotten for saying those things to a friend like you. I know that you are only trying to help out. But keep in mind that I did spends several weeks reading, contemplating, discussions, debates, and redrafting of my South America idea to the point that I thought it was workable; and all that work was gone in only a few paragraphs which stated that not one flaw, but several flaws. It was very overwhelming to know that I have screwed up again, and have to start from scratch. I was caught up in the moment, and I understand if you are mad at me. If at all possible, let us move forward.


 * As I mentioned above, I was more upset about South America rather than Italy (which was an idea I didn't explore to much beforehand). The overall reasoning for me exploring a divided Italy was because of Germany (and China) being "punished", while Italy (even OTL) was pretty much left alone, the fact that Italy was the closest western nation to willingly become communist, and that with the idea of Germany being purposely divided (meaning Berlin isn't), the Cold War looks rather weak in comparison with OTL. It had nothing to do with monarchies (I have begun to show more fascination with them lately, after all), but that you said a division was unlikely here, and that a communist state wouldn't work either way. So I have lost interest in this idea overall.


 * The South America idea I may bring back in some form or another (maybe as a Peru-Bolivian Dominion state as you suggested), but I believe I need a break and come back on a fresh mind. I have a couple of ideas I would like to look into, primarily General tiu's idea for Japan. But like I said, maybe I need a break, all of this is getting overcomplicated. So again, I do apologize for my actions, and I hope that you can forgive me. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:56, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

I never really considered Asia in that respect; aside from the obvious fact that the USSR and Japan would have nukes facing each other. While I am not too sure (not an expert), the Vietnam War would probably still happen (it began from the leaving French), but maybe there would be large numbers of Japanese fighting in the war.

I am well aware that the Ainu make up a low population, but I added Hokkaido as a "country" for other reasons besides ethnics:


 * Much like Korea and the others, Hokkaido (and the Kurils) were annexed by Japan (not part of the original home islands). Granted, Japan had more time and success in colonizing the region, Hokkaido still has an "otherness" mentality even to this day (not as great as [say] Texas, but enough that this may be looked into upon reformation ATL).


 * Despite being an empire of "countries" (still not sure on a name), Japan would be a unitary state (much like the UK), which would all be "Japanese" by the time I am considering the empire to reform. In short, Japan divided for regional and historic say, not so much ethnics.

But it is still a work in progress, and I have not gotten any response by Tiu to help me along. So one step at a time. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:26, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Kingdom of Quebec (French America)
Whay did you undo my modifications? What does 3,854,085 sq mi km2 mean? What are natinos?

205.151.119.83 13:02, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Spokane in 1983:DD
How did Spokane survive the nuclear attack on Fairchild AFB? Downtown Spokane (where I work) is less than a ten minute drive from the base, and back in 1983 areas north of the city like Mead or east like Spokane Valley were less built-out from suburbanization (though they did exist). The only plausible explanation I can come up with for this is that Fairchild is at a much higher elevation than the city (which is down along a river valley) and thus the city was partially shielded from the blast, though no doubt still heavily damaged. I know the Spokane junta is canon, but there should probably be a plausible explanation for the city's survival.

KingSweden (talk) 06:38, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds pretty reasonable. I assume then that the nukes fired at Seattle and Tacoma were higher MT than the Spokane one?

KingSweden (talk) 23:52, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

New Apoc:2012 page nominated for deletion
Hey Lordganon, I had just created the page Weather During The Apocalypse (Apocalypse: 2012) (which will likely be renamed and has a hell of a lot of data to be put in) when a user named Cartoon1 nominated the article for deletion. He did not explain why on the talk page. I'm not sure how to proceed as I have no idea if he is a Wikia official or a troll. Could you please help? Thank you, Scandinator (talk) 13:59, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of page
My page was nominated for deletion and I was wondering if there would be anything I can do to improve it so it doesn't get deleted --ProudAmerican1776 (talk) 18:19, December 9, 2012 (UTC)Proud1776

Question
Hey, I was looking through the Doomsday articles, and noticed that many of the nations such as Japan and Korea, and most of the port-war American nations, were sitting on top of or around sites that were nuked. Is this allowed? If so, could I base my nation around such areas, or provide some details as to how they survived (such as Japan and Israel shooting down many of the missiles)? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:48, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Doomsday advice
Hey LG, I was wondering if I could get your advice on how I should bring up a suggestion in the Doomsday timeline (since the talk page looks quite complicated). I wanted to bring up a proposal I have been meaning to bring to the tables for a long time now, but I would also like to get your two cents on the matter before I go any further.

I do not know if you recall this idea I brought up in the discussions of ' and ', but I have been pondering the idea of the Outer Lands being divided between and a Long Island/Block Island state. I am aware that I will have to bring this up with the respective users who are the admins the articles in question, but I would like to get a second opinion on this issue, and whether (site wise) this could be looked into. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:30, December 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * No need to worry, I completely understand. I need to get my act together as well (haven't been shopping yet). Anyway, I am glad that you approve the idea. However, you got it wrong. What I wanted to do is have Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard, and Nantucket join Plymouth, with Long Island and Block Island becoming their own union (in affect, ending the Outer Lands). Not too sure what you would think of this.


 * I plan on informing the user in question in due time. I agree that Arstar would probably not refuse, but the other two I am not too sure of. I came across an old discussion on this same matter from years back, and Brian said he was supportive of this idea. I will ask again to be sure he still feels this way, but I believe this may work. Thank you again. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:27, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

So, another bad idea, eh? Well, it doesn't matter to much. However, why can't this be an issue that was already resolved? Why does it have to be a contemporary process in the timeline? If that is the case, then I honestly see no point in looking into this idea any further, and just keep the things the way they are. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:58, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE: Just wanting to see this possibility. How would around the late '90s sound for Cape Cod peacefully leaving the Outer Lands in favor of a union with Plymouth. This could also correspond nicely with the date that Plymouth becomes a Commonwealth. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:36, December 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you again. Also, by "down the toilet," I was referring to my Long Island idea. Was rather interested in me having a Long Island being alone (with Block Island being a bonus), and allow Arstar to have his initial proposal in the process. But after more thinking, I do realize that just having them divide would be a waste of a great idea. They all have too many similarities to just divide, and historically; Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket were part of New York (but not Block Island for some reason). Also, I would believe that as an added bonus, Long Island would develop as the dominant member, especially if Cape Cod leaves.


 * As for a date, I would assume that 2008/9 may work out. I would hope this develops peacefully. I will have to work on the timeline a bit, but I will need to bring this up at the main talk page pretty soon. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:24, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you again. Also, I read your comment on the talk page for the OTL. I had no idea that there was an attack on Cape Cod. Aside from affecting the population (among other things), wouldn't this also make a wasteland between them and Plymouth? In short, would a unity movement be possible if this is the case? Also, why did you duplicate my map? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:51, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

So there are different types of attacks? Not too sure I see that. Granted, it could be argued that Otis only received one strike (as opposed to NYC), and that the wind direction at the time (southwest IIRC); but an attack is still an attack. Even a small one seems like it would have cut off Cape Cod and Plymouth for decades (as you stated before), and it appears that Cape Cod would be much smaller because of which.

Also, I have been having second thoughts about giving up Cape Cod, and am actually looking forward to just having it remain in the union. I have also brought this up with Brian, but maybe you know as well. I am just curious, do you guys remember why Plymouth got Provincetown?

So the map was made by the site? I guess that make some sense. However, I have been trying to remove duplicates from the site, and this upsets me (especially since it is a map I made). How long do you intend to have it remain here? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:52, December 20, 2012 (UTC)




 * I guess that makes sense. But given the clusterfuck that thee Soviets gave NYC, you can't blame me for thinking that the attack on Otis would be a bit larger.


 * I made a quick map showing the attacked area. It still feels like that the area west of Barnstable (the town) would be "off limits" for quite a while after DD (which is what I meant by it would be a long while to ignore any type of unification).


 * I figured as much about Provincetown. I just wanted to be sure there was a reason and not that it was an area Astarpool forgot to remove.


 * No need to worry, just wanted to check. I will remove in time. Yes, it is about done (or as done as it can get), and I do appreciate it that you would select it (now I need to get back towards that timeline).


 * Also, you recently reverted some of my edits over a template. Mind if I ask why? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:28, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much. That simulator site is very interesting. However, which type of bombs were used?

I would like to add that there is no difference between those templates. Secondly, I do not really wish to have a huge template on the page which only states that it is a stub. It all leads to the same category. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:34, December 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the size. That map-site is really cool (can't wait to really have fun with it). However, I think using the Tsar Bomba on Otis would be interesting (lol).


 * No need to worry about it. I just find it funny how confused your reactions were to them.


 * I believe that is all I have on the Outer Lands so far (I plan on making a new map sometime soon). Now I am getting interested in another idea I have been contemplating for the past couple of days. I do warn you that this is a topic that I am passionate about (regardless of it being usable on this timeline), so if this is another case of me being too optimistic (which I really hope I am not), please be gentle about telling me. But given the timeline idea I have, and the interaction of the nations around the Outer Lands, I do believe that is is plausible. I would like to get your opinion on the issue before I go any further.


 * It involves the Shoreham Nuclear Plant on Long Island, and it being used to power Long Island. Aside from the cliche of using nuclear power after Doomsday, I do believe this is usable and workable for this timeline. I would love to get your opinion (though I am not too sure about your stances towards nuclear power). ^^; --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 05:38, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Now that is quite a site to see. Just off the top of my head, I thought of an interesting timeline idea. The POD is that the world actually ended on December 21, 2012. Imagine the possibilities. XD

I am glad that this idea is workable. Like I said before, I am rather passionate about this plant (I even went there a while back), so I am very happy I can include it. Off topic (somewhat), I came across an alternate history about the Shoreham plant, but it was stupid and meant to be funny.

But interesting that you said the world was becoming more nuclear. Now that might be an interesting article to add to the timeline, how nuclear power has become despite the world being doomed by their big brothers. Again, thank you. I may start the article tomorrow, at which time I will bring it up on the talk page. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 07:16, December 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you again. I guess what I meant about "increased use" is an overstatement, but you explained it pretty well yourself. I had no idea how elaborate nuclear power was in this timeline, and how "rushed" they are (as you said). This would make an interesting article. Also, I will be writing a report about a user who has been ignoring my messages. Just giving you a heads up. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:46, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Well all in good time. As for Sunlord, he hasn't been around lately, so maybe he gets the message (*he says before realizing he just jinxed it*). I also have no real idea what he was talking about, either (maybe a mix up?). Either way, just letting you know. Also, I was unaware that categories were not allowed on proposed pages (my bad). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:04, December 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey LG, how was your holidays? Mine was okay.


 * I have another idea that I would love to get your two cents on (but I will also bring it up on the talk page if needed). In short, I want to expand Long Island to also include Brookhaven (the area in grey). My reasoning for which is for two reasons. First, Brookhaven avoided direct attack on Doomsday, but did suffer the affects of the "ring of fire" on its westernmost border. Second, since you have made mention that Cape Cod would be fine (despite having a direct attack), then adding this area that wasn't attacked shouldn't be an issue.


 * My idea would involve having LI incorporate the town around 2009, after years of cleanup and gradual re-population. What would your take be on this.


 * Also, I came across a typo today. The article Electromagetic Pulse is missing an "N" in the title. Just wanted to tell you. XD --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:56, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. So the expansion and the date seem alright, wonderful. Is this something I have to bring up on the talk page, or can I just go with it? I have a map I have been working on for weeks which includes this expansion. I will just upload it, and I hope I am going with the timeline rules here.

Lol. I thought that was funny too. I wanted to link to it on my Shoreham page, and after ten minutes of searching for the link, it became obvious. Oh well, we're only human.

I also have two more things. I am considering to make a template specifically for the Outer Lands. Would this be something I have to propose before using?

Also, as part of me cleaning up the files here, I came across File:Vexilloid of the Roman Empire.svg, and noticed that you specifically wanted it to remain an older version (and encouraged the uploading of several duplicates). Since this was over a year ago, and that the file had no links when I came across it, I assume that this argument is no longer the case. I have uploaded the current file used on Wikipedia (as well as adding the licensing). If you are still keen on keeping the older version, then I do apologize for getting involved, and I will revert this if needed. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:33, December 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I will add it soon.




 * Glad you aren't mad at me. If you would like, we can add the varied version as a separate file. I was going to bring this up otherwise, but Chris wasn't happy of the recent changes to the coloring Wikipedia did to Russia's flag (though I personally hatted the previous one XD), so he uploaded the old version. We can do the same here if you truly wish.


 * Also, if you don't mind me asking (just curious), why do you care about this detail? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:57, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

I understand. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:43, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

DD
I was looking at Anhui and Henan, as I was checking out the list of nuked cities in China, and Henan's capital city of Zhengzhou was the only one in the two states was that hit, and there was only one nation in the area, the Dragon Empire. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 22:22, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Okay then, I'll keep looking around then. Still can find any open areas, and I'm still surprised that every tiny little island has been called. I don't even know how that was possible. :/ Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:13, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Project Agawin: saving Fire Wiki
I have come across a wiki that is in desperate need of a major clean and reboot. None of the Admins have been active for some time. The wiki is all but dead. I have tried contacting Wika to request full rights as an admin and maybe even adopt it (If that is possible) but have not been answered. Could you provide a contact who will reliably answer?

Thank you,

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 13:34, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Stirlings 2013
Skimming through the Stirlings shows me that we're facing somewhat of a lack of nominations in comparison to last year. Is this something normal or this is somwhat out of order?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:19, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

I did two or three. I haven't looked over the page yet, but my hunch says that you've nominated a couple as well.

I'll see if there's anything or anyone else I could nominate to get the bal rolling.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 05:14, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Timeline Adoption & Deletion
I would llike to use big portions of this TL:

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Japanese_Victory_at_Midway

in my adopted "Japanese Victory TL". Can you delete this TL:

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Japanese_Victory_at_Midway

As I have copied down what I need from it

Vexacus (talk) 15:17, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone nominate for the Stirling Awards?AP (talk) 05:17, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks alot man. I think I'll check out Spain first. And thanks about that other part too. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:02, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I've settled on developing a nation in the Congo, i.e., the areas of both the DR Congo and Republic of the Congo not taken by any canon nations already. That or the Ivory Coast and Ghana. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 00:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

User talk:King Charles V
I have replyed to your comment on his talk page.Steam-man (talk) 01:31, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. I was eyeing the provinces of and  since I haven't found any articles about them yet. As for Angola and the West African nations, I'll check them out. Thanks again. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 03:43, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

hello
i got a blog i woild like to delite, it's allready been taged to be delited. can you take care of it for me?

Wingman1 05:01, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

A Darker Place
um i need a name for the new world in my tl i cant keep referring to it as the nw. Nk

Hey, here is my entry for DD, Tshuapa. I cut out that piece of land belonging to Isiro, so the claims should not conflict with any of the surrounding nations. Also, given that Katanga and Zaire are both stubs, would be possible (canon-speaking), for me to invade/annex them? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 02:20, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Possible city-states in central Michigan
Hey LG. I was wondering if there's a possibility of a surviving city-state in central Michigan?

Hello
Well, I'm here! I looked at the DD map and many areas now seem to be occupied or have larger nations. I was wondering if the invasion plan is still on? It seems like the world is right now distracted by things going on in their home territories and things, and the SAC seems to be dormant. So shall we strike? Imp (Say Hi?!) 09:57, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Haha, yeah I'll archive it. In the new year, ok.

I have been adding little things in the UIP page, care to check over them and give me suggessions? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:46, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Katanga, Isiro, Kivu, and Zaire were the only nations in the Congo. :( Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:56, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Really? Well thank you. I'd like to base it in region of the Congo if possible. Thanks. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:55, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam (1983: Doomsday)
I've got an idea for Vietnam in Doomsday. What if Chinese refugees establish a Chinese dominated People's Republic of Tonkin in the north, where much of the Vietnamese communists go. This allows the re-democratized Vietnam to focus their attention to the south, and eventually defeat the unpopular PRT. What do you think? Yank 23:44, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Nunavut (1983:Doomsday)
Is their anything on what the people in Nunavut did? I've tried to join the game before but can't find some open land that would fit into the time line. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:36, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Just letting you know
Happy Holidays, LG. I am just giving you another heads up. I am allowing Breizhcatalonia1993 to edit the  page in New Union. He mentioned to me that you were giving him a hard time about this (thought I haven't seen you guys talking recently, so I have no idea what he really means). But anyway, just letting you know. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:14, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

Little Doubt
I want to be sure, so i ask to you. I want nominate this article to Best New Article, which i created in colaboration with KingSweden for his timeline. I can, right? ^_^U Regards! --Katholico (talk) 05:35, December 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much :D Regards! --Katholico (talk) 03:55, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Adolf Schicklgruber?
I've heard Adolf Hitler was called Adolf Schicklgruber for a time. Would you happen to know if and when this happened? I'm plannng a timeline where Hitler is killed in World War One. Thanks in advance!

Doctor Evulz (talk) 18:56, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I must have confused him with his father. Thanks!

Doctor Evulz (talk) 02:54, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Stronger latinoamerica
may i ask why do you classify it as ASB ? Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:50, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

what status would be the one of the nations so that the TL is not asb Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:49, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

LG,  seriously, in which case would the asb not be asb or biased without leaving the entire idea of it, and why is it asb biased Sine dei gloriem (talk) 20:56, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

they aren't randomly independent, the pod is that the viceroy of new granada doesn't withdraw the tax increase and that the neogranadines revolt in similar way to the American during the revolution, the other colonies despite not being directly affected, they get affected as this only increases the small leveled at that moment hate they had due to The spanish preferring spanish more than creoles, thus many revolt aswell, in similar way that the thirteen colonies did, they do have reasons to declare independence as much as the Americans did Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:46, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

I know, but its the one that sparkled the already existant hate, same in my timeline, but well, what should i change to make the timeline not asb biased Sine dei gloriem (talk) 03:05, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

my goal is to keep the latinoamerican nations united  and more stable, outside that i don't have any other major goals currently so, i ask again what should i change to make the TL not biased

is it possible that to make my timeline not asb, only keep them more stable similar to The actual austria, not powerfull but relatively capable of defending themselves also,also if i make a less latinoamerican centered tl would you withdraw the biased label, also i have 5 reason for independence those are the reasons i find that would make possible that Latinoamerica gets independence, would it be plausible Sine dei gloriem (talk) 04:35, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Racial tension, Spanish population were treated superior to the Creoles,
 * Tax, in OTL there was an actual revolt against the Tax increase in Nueva granada, Only stopped when the Viceroy withdraw the Increase, which is one of my POD that it didn't happened
 * 1) Some Latinoamerican population had heard about the Ilustration beliefs, and or had been taught on them, these people in the Given situation would start spreading things like equality of man, and info about the Democracy
 * 2) there were already pro independentists like Francisco de Miranda,the leader of my timeline
 * 3) People of the Colonies like in OTL didn't like to respond to External figures, and originally it was intended that Nueva granada to become a Dominion of Spain responding directly to the king

Question
There is an issue in the Principia Moderni II map game that I'd like to get your opinion on. A Muslim megastate known as the Hashemite Caliphate has taken over much of the Muslim world, from Deccan to Algeria; they have also taken over areas with prominent groups of christians like Armenia, Georgia, Egypt, Syria, Ethiopia, etc. One of the mods made those groups leave their homeland(because they were "tired" of living under oppressive Islamic rule) and establish "expatriate kingdoms" in the New World right when all the European nations were colonizing the Americas. The Jews even left Palestine. Would this actually happen? Would Syriac/Coptic/ any other kind of christian just leave their lands for a place they don't even know they'll survive in? Let me know. Thanks.AP (talk) 06:16, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, LG. AP (talk) 06:34, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Star wars ripoff - possible infringment
Hi. Thought I would bring This to your attention. It appears to be 'borrowing heavily' to say the least

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 14:16, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Touhou Project in 1983: Doomsday
Hello.

I was thinking about doing a list of characters and having some short descriptions for each.

Should I make a separate page for that or can I put it on the ZUN page? -Kogasa 2012年12月31日 02:26:00 (JST)

What are the naming protocols? i believe iam following them, please explain 07sameva (talk) 00:28, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Stirlings
When does voting start? Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 00:54, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

My apologies, will revert to full name for future articles

the timeline (What Luck!) is not biased, it is based on a confederate gettysburg (a common timeline on here i agree) followed by a sucessful assasination attempt on Lincoln (a real event from August 1864 that very nearly killed him). 07sameva (talk) 11:10, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Imperial Federation idea
How's it going, LG. I had an epiphany recently for 13 Fallen Stars that I would love to get your take on. Since nationalism as we know it doesn't exist, and World War I doesn't happen (at least as OTL), this made me think of how the Empires would evolve here. From what I can make out from this, would be more time and reasoning for the existence of the so-called "." Nationalism would not exist, meaning there would be no "Canadians" or "Australians" (at least on a national sense), and there would be more time to mold the idea into something workable.

I am also considering this idea after rethinking what the original author of this timeline was thinking about by having Canada (for instance) being a kingdom. In retrospect, this may have been what he was actually meaning (and if that be the case, then I would like to look into this possibility further).

I would rather get your two cents on this idea, rather than spend weeks on it to only find out that it is impractical. But from what I can make out on my own, I would say it seems interesting to look into, would you say? Look forward to your response. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:20, January 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I am still uncertain as to what "nationalism" would be here, but pretty much what you said is about right. I only meant that "Canadians" would not exist on a "nationalist" level, but more of a regional level (kinda like Californians don't call themselves Californians on a national level).


 * I had to look it up to believe it... but Canada really wanted to be called "Kingdom"? This also shocks me because the original creator also referred to Canada (and all of Spain's claims) as Kingdoms. I took this as a whole, and thought this meant independence, not just a name. Very weird (again... still new to monarchies).


 * So an Imperial Federation could be plausible here, that is nice to hear. I will continue to look into this idea. Also, because this is new to me, how would a British Imperial Federation be structured here. I've heard many interpretations, including it being (more or less) the Commonwealth of Nations with and EU flair. However, I am more interested in an actual federation, with the countries of the UK, provinces of "Canada", states of Australia, and so on, as equal members of a federation that would have a strong parliament and a King/Queen figurehead (i.e., OTL UK but larger and is a federation). I know the issue of India and it's potential power in such a union, but what I have in mind (at least from the start) would be a whites-only state (more or less). Would this be right? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:20, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

qwerty
may i know which precise elements are considered biased? my political views are liberal-left, so i tried to balance out successful Stevenson-JFK-RFK presidencies with successful Bush Sr - Dole - Rodham (Hillary doesnt meet bill, holds her parents conservetive views) presidencies. 07sameva (talk) 11:57, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Trance in 1983: Doomsday
Hello again.

I was thinking of creating an article for in 1983: Doomsday and, I'm wondering if he and his family could have escaped  and/or  somehow, or they would be doomed as they had no place to go.

If not, I'm wondering if he could still become the DJ and would produce Trance music. -Kogasa 2013年1月05日 06:24:42 (JST)

please may i know how "what luck!" is biased, 07sameva (talk) 01:01, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

how is it biased? please give examples!07sameva (talk) 10:21, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yet another question
Hello, LG. Scraw and I have been thinking of new map game ideas to create a game with concepts that haven't been overused(IE World Wars 1 and 2, the Cold War, etc). For one of my ideas, I'm thinking of beginning it at the outbreak of the War of Spanish Succession. Is there any plausible way the French-Spanish coalition could have won the war?AP (talk) 08:35, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

have rewritten parts of "what luck!", feel it is successfully neutral now. should be declassified as biased, 07sameva (talk) 00:40, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. It seems to be the best game idea we have so we might just do it, despite an ASB tag. Several ASB games have made it, I hope this one can work out. Thanks again.AP (talk) 00:58, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

have decided to rewrite the actual POD.

Union troops dont find the lost order, Lee lures McClellan to gettysburg(meaning a battle of gettysburg in october 1862), where he defeats him in a similar fashion that Lee was defeated by Meade in OTL. Lincoln lacks the great victory he needs to issue the emancipation proclaimation, consequently britain and france remain considerably pro confederate. Lee is reluctant to enter Washington, British intervene for peace, on January 1 1863 rather than validating the emancipation proclaimarion Lincoln announces a peace with the csa. Lincoln is now unpopular, hated by the peace democrats for "starting the war" and hated by war democrats and some republicans for not being an affective war leader. In August 1864 he is assasinated by a disgruntled soldier (as he very nearly was in OTL 1864).

This is not biased since it is based on factual events and inspired by a alt hist essay "If the lost order hadnt been lost", if you should see fit to repeatedly add "what luck!" to the biased catagory then can you please leave a reason on the talk page, i really want to make this timeline detailed and want to get it right, 07sameva (talk) 09:15, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Look Lordganon, ive asked you this several times now, if your going to say my timeline's bias then please say how! How else am i meant to improve it! I admit all of my timlines so far have been simplistic and quite bad so i wanted to make a decent start and do a really good,detailed and well written timeline! I want to contribute yet you keep saying what i write is trash but you dont say how! really lordganon, please just say which parts are bias and dont just say the whole thing is! I JUST WANT TO WRITE A DECENT TL!07sameva (talk) 17:46, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

Intelligent plants question
Hello LordGannon,

Event though I stated that I would understand why my timeline could be considered ASB, I want to now why it is put into this category. The enviromental changes stated in the timeline are fact, and the science behind the evolutionary tansition of the plants is plausible. If I need to add any more links providing more evidence for the temperature changes, or more links explaining how the evolution of the plants is plausible, please just say so. This is not a harsh message, but I just want to now how I could make my timeline better.

Regards TheAustralianAtheist (talk) 08:53, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

the whole thing is not biased at all!

The POD is taken from an essay (that i have already named), and the various butterfly effects are entirely plausible (its actually unusual that the Confederates allowed their battle plans into union hands, had lee had the element of surprise then he would have almost certainly won a victory over mcclellan), please challenge anyone of my fictional presidencies (CS and US) they are all plausible!

How is "the whole thing" bias though! i generally cant see how you could think that to be the case! prehaps you could introduce a third party into the debate to read the timeline and give me their opinion! but please tell me HOW it is bias!07sameva (talk) 17:08, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Picture Question
If the picture of the severed head on the barbed wire was taken down, I take it anything like a lynched body would also be taken down? I ask this as IO have an idea for a new section on my TL. If the lynched body picture is not allowed, I can change the section to remove itVexacus (talk) 20:02, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Stop removing my categories
I've noticed you've removed categories on two of my recently created pages. Unless you have a logical reason behind doing so I kindly request you stop doing this.Central Victory Creator 10:29, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

After reading through most of the other articles in the "ASB-Bias" catagory, i cant see how you could class "basically the whole" of my timleine bias! the greater norweigan reich, Japanese victory and reign of roosevelt are completly biased, and the latter TL isnt even classed as bias! I wouldnt mind if you just thought a couple elements of my timeline were a bit far fetched (RFK and Palin being presidents for example) but saying the whole of my TL is bias is quite frankly weird. My TL doesnt belong in the same catagory as these "wanks", and i cant see how you could think that to be the case. 07sameva (talk) 16:40, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Otl Presidents in 13 Fallen Stars
This is quite a surprise to see. Had no idea that you were an expert on ancestry. XD

Your suggestions are about the same direction I was heading. I also like your suggestion for Hoover being Pennsylvanian, especially because both PA and DE voted to reelect Hoover in 1932 (he would sure have a good home here). The only thing I can't put my finger on is Obama. I know his mother is from the Midwest, while his father was from Kenya (just read that his parent met in a Russian class... *Twilight Zone Theme*). Not impossible, just very close. Now this is just making me think of how Virginia and Carolina would (if at all) abolish slavery here (probably much later in the 19th century). Other than that, than you again.

Also, before I forget, I commented you about my Imperial Federation idea and never got a reply. I am sure you were busy (you weren't on for a while), and a flood of comments came on you talk page, so I can understand. Forgive me for digging into this. ^^; --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:58, January 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well thank you again. Also (for the record), I was slowly looking into everybody. I did manage to label Nixon and the Bushs.


 * Virginia and Carolina sound about the way I had in mind. Also, without the French Revolution and the Spanish colonies leaving early in the century, wouldn't slavery be more widespread for a good-half of the 19th century (I know Haiti's slaves revolted, and Mexico [at least] declared the abolition of slavery upon independence).


 * Glad you found my Virginia idea amusing. But what I didn't expect was you suggesting it would be more logical to do the opposite. I didn't realize abolitionism would be strong enough to make a pro-slavery revolt in VA. But again, should have realized this when it was the Atlantic coast which benefited from slavery (it not being too usable in the mountainous west is one of the reasons WV left). I also came across the odd fact that VA and KY didn't vote for the same candidate in 1860 as the rest of the south. But either way, you honestly think this is workable?


 * I understand, I get the same way.


 * So more or less like the EU (but stronger). This kinda reminds me of the (a united entity between the Netherlands and her colonies which remained). My only question would involve the counties of the UK. While Ireland was most likely to become its own dominion (or independent), what about the others? Would a federation evolve from here?


 * Also, I have an idea for a new British colony for this timeline. I believe that with no French Revolution, and thereby making the Latin American Revolutions not be successful in the early part of the century; this would make Patagonia an open target for the British (or the French). I believe Spain would focus more on the Viceroyalties then they would with this region (especially after barely keeping them), that the British could gradually move in (there was some interest I believe [the Falklands are a giveaway]). This would be different from OTL, in which Chile and Argentina (Chile more so) had early interest in Patagonia. I would love to get your two cents on this (probably a stupid idea). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:37, January 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by "a touch more power internationally for each member"?


 * Glad the Patagonia idea is workable. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 19:42, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I can probably see this happening. However, I still believe that as time progresses and technology gets better, this federation would gradually become more and more of a single nation (just what I see).

Also, I thought about something a few days ago, and I wanted to get your opinion. If you remember my original idea of having this be a completely single nation with the subdivisions being the states (not the actual ones being them), I believe I may have found a variable that (at the least) may alter the borders of this federation over time.

Lets compare Australia and New Zealand. Prior to 1900, these two were actually 7 separate colonies (called the "Australian Colonies"). The move towards federation would be achieved, but with New Zealand being able to go its own way (primarily because of their PM at the time). Assuming this also happens ATL, then I foresee a potential conflict of interest. With a federal parliament being the supreme power of this larger federation, the Australian states would be subordinate to an Australian federation, while New Zealand has direct representation. And note, prior to 1901, New Zealand was just another Australian colony, with little difference from New South Wales or Victoria; aside from distance and leadership (and that it was only after becoming a Dominion that a distinct Kiwi culture became).

With this, I could potentially see some of Australia's states wanting to also gain more representation in such a parliament; with Western Australia being the prime target.

I also compare this to the Kingdom of the Netherlands and the Netherlands Antilles. When it first established, this Kingdom comprised of the European Netherlands and the Netherlands Antilles (Suriname was also a founding member, but left later on). Now, the NA has divided into new countries. I know that comparing Australia and the Caribbean are not the same things, but given the larger distances and growing move towards more unity, I would think that this would be an outcome over time. I can also compare this to the Soviet Union in New Union, as more republics were established over time.

Overtly, I don't see this happening completely, as many regions would benefit from being united. However, some parts may attempt to do so; including Western Australia, Ireland (maybe, I did receive your thoughts on this), and the many Caribbean states (much like OTL). Or as new members join, the idea of creating new federations would be undesirable (such as in Africa).

Or like everything else, I am not looking at this the right way, and I am only ranting nonsense again.

Also, because I feel we may be in different times, when do you believe that such a federation would be enacted? I personally believe no earlier than 1900, and no later than 1940.

This is just another question that I have been thinking of for a while now. I am sure that this is just another pointless idea, but hear me out. Prior to 1900, Spanish Guinea (which would be sold to NN around 1883) claimed a lot more territory then what is currently Equatorial Guinea (see here), and it was in the that the current border was agreed.

Anyway, I was looking into how it could have turned out bigger (because I'm being greedy), and I may have found a potential way (thought probably unlikely). Let's say that with Germany non-existent (and doubting Prussia takes its place), this may leave the French (or the British) to claim Cameroon. Combined with potentially good relations with France, the French may be willing to give more territory to NN in 1900. Just wanted to get your take on this. I was also thinking, because of its small size, location, and timing; what of Togoland being NN's? I'm sure this is stupid, so forgive me if I am. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:17, January 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by "more unified overall"? This is further getting confusing, so they would be independent, but more unified?


 * I personally doubt it should happen any time prior to 1900. There was still support prior to WWI, and without the war (or the US), I believe it would continue to last here.


 * But if it does end up with WA not joining initially, I would personally show more interest towards it just remaining separate (I have been wanting to incorporate an independent WA in one of my timelines for a while now).


 * Like I said, pointless. So forget I made mention of it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:01, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

So are you telling me that Australia would virtually become a de facto unitary state?

I suppose it could for earlier. However, Canada (Ontario and Quebec) would not exist within the British Empire at the time. I know you told me that you just use it the name for simplicity, but I personally don't know how supportive the Maritime Provinces or the Metis/Colonists would support such a thing. Also, what do you mean by "this was a position advocated by a minority prior to Confederation otl"? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:35, January 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think I understand. Australia would (more or less) devolve into a "United Province of Canada," being one entity, but with the original colonies having some say. I think I got that right, and this would be more the reason that I believe Western Australia would not be included (especially since WA was not originally part of NSW, with the remaining states [aside from Tasmania IIRC] were once part of it). I can't speak for how France works (aside from me knowing that it is a unitary state that includes parts of Africa and South America), but I believe I can get the gist of it.


 * I didn't mean to question you choice of wording (i.e., Canada), but was merely questioning whether or not the Maritime Provinces, Newfoundland, and the rest of British North America would go along with such a union (especially since I was under the impression that it was the Two Canadas OTL which held the shots).


 * I also came across a historic "typo" that the original author made. While Nova Scotia did once hold all of the Maritime Provinces at one point, New Brunswick (the first province to split off) was created in 1784 (prior to the established POD of 1788). So in reality, it would probably become an Australia-like situation if anything here (they unite into a bigger province, which ironically some in contemporary Canada want to have happen). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:16, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Treaty of Friendship, Commerce, and Navigation
I was wondering if you could remove the ASB-Biased as I've tried to remove the bias and I'm starting the timeline over so its not biased.

Bobalugee1940 (talk) 03:45, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hello, just popping in
Hello, LordGanon, This is Ming777 from Ah.com

If you hav any concerns about my TL, please message me. I want to avoid any problems with the folks here who have made an extraordinary collaborative AH world.

Mikelima777 (talk) 00:30, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Skywalker Ranch
Do you think a very small survivor state in Skywalker Ranch would be plausible? I looked on the map of strikes in North America and then I checked the CarlosLabs simulator. As long as the wind isn't blowing fallout right in the direction of the Ranch, it has a chance of survival. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 17:15, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Edwards AFB is nowhere near Skywalker Ranch, though fallout from Mare Island might hit it, depending on the wind direction. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 13:37, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Used this for reference. http://www.wunderground.com/history/The wind from San Francisco is blowing 11 mph in a WNW direction, which, from what I can tell, is missing Skywalker Ranch. The wind in Novato, where Mare Island is, was completely still. I'm going to assume the prevailing wind patterns spread the fallout to the northeast, away from Skywalker Ranch. Further evidence exists in this map on the 1983DD talk page http://www.ki4u.com/nuclearsurvival/states/aacont2.jpg. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 21:42, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Not sure where you're getting the location of Edwards AFB. Every source I've found points it somewhere near LA, not San Francisco.

Yes, but the closest weather station to Novato (where Mare Island is) reports still winds.

The prevailing winds will take the fallout northeast, not to the west. Multiple sources tell that, as a rule of thumb, always assume the fallout will follow these patterns. These wind currents go over the Rockies. The major influence of the fallout will not be winds blowing from the Rockies. It would be the prevailing wind currents that take the fallout east. Also, the map we use was created by a reputable source. If you don't see it as accurate, why are we using it? CrimsonAssassin (talk) 16:02, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

ASB: Biased ?
I appreciate the fact that you are convinced my timeline is biased, i disagree and will undo any further changes you make to my timeline. I would appreciate it if you wouldnt remove my pages from the American Civil War timeline also, i dont know why your doing that. I wouldnt waste your time adding my pages to the biased catagory, i will undo any changes you make every day i come on here. 07sameva (talk) 15:50, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

It would help if you explained to Sam WHY you think it is "ASB: Biased." So far, the only thing wrong with this is the fact that a second POD is introduced which does not seem to be connected with the first. The fact that these points are considered "luck" does not, in my opinion, make them "alien space bat" material. The interception of Lee's plans are in general considered pivotal in the course of the war. An early assasination of Lincoln would have indeed altered the election in favor of the Democrats. Not enough of the time line has been written to determine much as to the outcome.

Every writer comes in with some bias, but the cateogoization system should not be used as an editorial comment. If the author of a time line does not wish to be included amongst the list of "ASB" articles, there is nothing that requires that such an article be so marked. SouthWriter (talk) 18:21, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

The marker
Why is the marker impossible? Doesn't the rule says you can use a short form? Laptop_Zombie 13:28, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Britain's World
Hey LG. I was wondering if you could give me your opinion or idea for the first Prime Minister of the United Provinces of America. I currently have Patrick Henry, but who would you suggest to be the first Prime Minister?

Regards - Enclavehunter (talk) 04:53, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well...
We are 20 days into the new year, so can planning for the attack into the northeast commence? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:43, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

May I also say thank you for fixing up my sentences on the UIP page, although you did remove my organic growing para! ;)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:46, January 20, 2013 (UTC)



Well, here we go.

Stage one: A fast paced infantry and mobilised unit attack into the little rouge states in W. Bengal. Should be overrun within a week. Objectives will be to seal multiple routes to Sikkim for military use. Secondary objective to crush resistance in the area.

Anything to add? I think it is a solid and stable beginning.

Stage two: After consolidating gains and building up troops in Sikkim and airlifting tanks and men into Arunanchal Pradesh over a week, we will begin the second stage. This will begin with an armoured attack into Bodoland and then Acikland to gain the attention of the other states. This is the clever part - the main attack is actually launched by Arunanchal Pradesh (the build-up troops could be sent through former China), catching Assam off-guard (who will be assembling their military to the west). Then another attack will be launched from the Pradesh, this time catching the Assamese on their flank and closing up and encircling Bololandese troops.

This could take anywhere from 2 weeks to two months. Thoughts? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:23, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

I also have two more maps readied. The two maps are about different topics. Here is one as to how the region would look after all these wars:

And here (I found a superior quality base map, great if you would like to edit it), is what the attacks would be like. The red blocks are meant to symbolise enemy build-up. The goled arrows are UIP attacks and the numbers are meant to show chronologial order (pretty chuffed with that map tbh).

So what do you think? Are we a go for Stage three? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:40, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, completely forgot to mention, throughout Stage two, the UIP will use its airforce, and get a chance to test out its new aircraft (all of the new aircraft will survive, but I think a few Mig-21s being downed would be appropriate). They would pummel many artillary positions opposing the advance. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:43, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I see your point about stage one. New time allocated is 3 days. What I meant for going into China was the helicopters, the could have flown over former Chinese airspace and noting would have happened. I'm sure that even the Tibetians cannot do anything about that.

Hmmm, I always did think that the UIP was short on tanks, and you proved me right. Yet I think whatever they have, should be used whereever they can (even if its only a little area, it will give the UIP a bit of an advantage). How long do you think will the campaign last anyway (stage two).

I have got a plan for an excuse. Lets say that an important military (or civilian) position was bombed on the 25th - the place where the bombing would happen would be preparing for Republic Day. Then, somehow, we find out the evidence leads to the governments in the east (this info could be planted), and on the 26th - Republic Day - war is declared.

Thoughts? Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:56, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, well there goes the troop transport over Tibet! Same with the tank options, looks like using them in a supporting role would be the only wise option. Hmm, the idea is good, best I could come up with! Its seems like the pilot rescue-op it is.

I had a feeling Tula Nada would be targeted too. Yet its problem might be that Tamil Nadu might get involved in the act too, which would be bad for everyone!

So... :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:44, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Tamil Nadu probably won't intervene. Even if Andhra Pradesh and the other southern states came into play, they'd probably be crushed.

Unless Pakistan came into the picture?

This could, on the other hand, be an opening for an Indian Coalition, like I suggested.

The Royal Guns (It&#39;s a PUN, people. I&#39;m not saying I&#39;m royal. And the name is GUNS.) (talk) 00:37, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

I see your point. Should we go ahead with it today itself? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:34, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Indian Coalition resulting from this? Please? The Royal Guns (talk) 02:59, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should try and get more military deals done with the Soviets. Say like repair and update some of the UIP's carriers (they'll only have something like 3) and in exchange they will get some extra much-needed manpower.

I also thing we should talk about how many roads have now been built nicely (we wrote a post about this a year or two back) and how power-grid lines are being re-laid to help increase efficiency. All thiese points are minor though. Could we say something about the construction boom beggining in Delhi and Mumbai? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:32, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

My edits
Why were my edits on British-Africana changed?

EoGuy (talk) 02:41, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

I give up.
I give up.

EoGuy (talk) 15:33, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Hey LG wats up, i just wanted to know who is the owner/editor of Atlantic Iron Curtain, i want to dicuss some stuff with him. Thanks man...

Alterman09 20:34, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Virginia and Liberia
Greetings. I have made a third revision on my Virginia Civil War idea, and I hope it is about right. I also added a few programs that Lee could use in order to gradually accomplish this. However, I am not an expert on Lee or what could be done, so forgive me if it sound like BS.

I also wanted to check out something before I go too far. I made mention about Liberia becoming a protectorate in my second draft, yet you made no mention on it. This either means you missed it, or you saw no problem with it. While I would like to see Liberia become more closer to any of the American states ATL, I am still new on this. So I would love to get your two cents on this, because I do have some interesting ideas in mind for Liberia. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:06, January 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear that I am making sense. While I have no doubt that Lincoln may support Lee ATL, but would be the chances of him suffering the same fate as OTL (i.e., being assassinated)?


 * I am still working out a timetable for this war, so now I will make it shorter (ending around 1862-63?). Also, I had no intention of the British supporting the rebellion, but that the rebels would seek their assistance during the war (as was OTL's CSA), and just like OTL, the Brits would ignore (more so than OTL). But details, still working on it.


 * You honestly believe Liberia would have been a protectorate earlier? From what I read from OTL, it appears that it was just a series of settlements up until the formation of an independent Liberia. My guess is that this would be the same, and I could see some type of international cooperation on this matter (since Maryland had some say there OTL), but with an (obvious) Virginian lead.


 * But irregardless of what Liberia may differ, I agree that Lee would probably formalize such protection during his administration. I have other ideas for Liberia, but all in due time. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 06:24, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Congrats.... Me?


Leaving this here so I remember. Lordganon (talk) 11:12, January 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much, and also congratulations for you!! :D --Katholico (talk) 20:02, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * ^What Kath said. :) [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:04, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

My Edits
It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.

I'm like the English professor in the Men's Room:

I don't write on the walls. I just correct the spelling and grammar.

EoGuy (talk) 15:57, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

83DD: India and China
Imp and I had an idea to revive the old Indian Coalition plan.

Goes as follows:

As the UIP is raining down hellfire upon the heads of the breakaway states, a regiment on the Raya- UIP hears rumors that Raya will be next. What emerges here is a massive firefight between the two sides on the scale of the Chola incident. The Rayans heavily lose, of course, but UIP top brass pulls back the UIP troops. They are not willing to risk a total SAC stop of aid. That said, this scares the stuffing out of Raya, who flee to TN for support, fearing that they'll be the next Tula. TN suggests the IC idea to AP and Raya, a military alliance, certainly provoked. SAC sees the UIP as the aggressor, and cuts down on aid to the UIP, sending it instead to the newly formed IC. Tensions go on between the two nations, as the UIP gains in the East. Then, when India is left between the IC, Pakistan and the UIP... well...

Oh, and as for China, I was wondering if a small, exceptionally major war emerges here. After the NPRC becomes official. Why isn't it canon yet, by the way? The Royal Guns (talk) 19:20, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, I have an idea. Since Bhutan is an ally of the UIP and has allowed it before, we can send a large amount of forces into Arunanchal Pradesh through the country. In exchange we can offer them better trading or something. What do you think? Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:13, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, yes, but the troops might have heard rumors that such an attack would happen. They behave boisterously, the Rayans take offense at that, there's a gunfight, and Raya is now terrified that the UIP will take exception to this. With their last card- SAC aid-played, they need to sneak in an ace, and the IC is just what is needed.

The Royal Guns (talk) 00:02, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Holy Roman Empire?
I got this off of alternatehistory.com:



"''PoD is the survival of both Frederick I Barbarossa and his son Henry VI Hohenstaufen to the completion of the Third Crusade and a successful long reign respectively. This creates a strong basis for the gradual centralization of the HRE and sees it turned into a hereditary monarchy at the very end of the 12nd century. Their talented scion Frederick II is educated to complete the basic job of empire-building, which he does over his own decades-long equally successful reign. Some intermittent civil wars in Germany and Italy see the resistance of particularist nobles and city-states crushed and gradually snuffed out, and the the decisive defeat of the theocratic Papacy. Another long reign by his son Conrad IV, in a dynasty notable for the longevity of its talented rulers, sees the Western Roman/Carolingian Empire definitely being reborn in the eyes of its subjects as a centralized monarchy spanning Germany, Italy, Austria, Bohemia-Moravia, the Low Countries, Burgundy, Switzerland, Slovenia, and Dalmatia, its armies swelled by the manpower of Germany and Italy and its coffers filled by the taxation flowing from the trade centers of Flanders, northern Germany, Franconia and Palatinate, Bohemia, northern Italy, and Sicily. A couple of powerful new monarchical states, however, arise in Western Europe and an ancient one is reborn in the East that would question the imperial primacy of the HRE.'' Butterflies arising from this change:

-The national unification of France is wrecked, and the fortunes of its neighbor states boosted, when the HRE interferes in the struggles between the Kings of France and the Angevin Empire on one side, and Aragon, France, and the Counts of Tolouse, on the other side. This results in the Plantagenet dynasty successfully uniting England and their feudal possessions and conquests in northern and western France into a unitary state. The Angevin Empire is also able to affirm its supremacy over Ireland and a Scotland that lacks strong backers on the other side of the English Channel.

-Aragon, not the Capetingian French monarchy, annexes Languedoc and Provence during the confused mess of suppressing the Cathar heresy. Aragon is able to capitalize this added power into gradually uniting the other Iberian Christian states under its control during the successful Reconquista, and to seize Corsica and Sardinia. Sicily and southern Italy, however, remain wholly outside its grasp, due to the strong grip of the HRE on Italy.

-The kingdom of France is shrunken down to an unhappy, landlocked buffer state (and occasional recurrent battlefield) between the imperial behemoths of the HRE, the Angevins, and Iberia. In the 14th century, it suffers a dynastic crisis, and after an inconclusive war between the three great powers at its borders, it is eventually partitioned between the Angevins and the HRE. Iberia swaps its share with Britain in exchange for southern Aquitaine. -The kingdoms of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are pushed into forming a real union (the so-called Kalmar Union) for mutual protection from their powerful neighbors.

-The strength of Britain, Iberia, and the HRE leads to a successful new round of Crusades, to a revitalization of the Byzantine Empire once the Islamic pressure is lifted off its back, and to an expansion of the Reconquista in North Africa. As a result, Iberia conquers North Africa. The HRE seizes Eygpt and Nubia. The Byzantine Empire recovers full control of Anatolia, Greece, Macedonia, and Bulgaria, and is later able to conquer the Levant, Armenia, and Mesopotamia. Serbia and Wallachia-Moldavia become vassal states of the Byzantine Empire.

-The strength of the HRE makes its expansion in Eastern Europe highly successful: besides the OTL achievements, Greater Poland, Masovia, Prussia, and western Hungary are assimilated and annexed to the HRE. The rest of Poland and Hungary are turned into vassal states of the HRE (Poland getting reunified in the process) and opened up for gradual assimilation by the Empire.

- Mongol invasion of Europe does not really reach further than Poland and Hungary, and the Tartar onslaught mostly ravages the Middle East for a while, further weakening Islamic states against the Crusader-Byzantine assault. After the Mongol Empire breaks apart, support by the HRE and the Byzantines allows Muscowy to swiftly oust the Golden Horde and build an empire in European Russia, which later expands to northern Caucasus, western Siberia, and most of Kazakhstan. By a parallel process, a Christianized Prussian tribe (TTL Lithuania equivalent) is able to expand and create a state spanning the Baltic lands, White Russia, Ukraine, and the former Khanate of Crimea.

-The Papacy never really recovers from the crushing defeat it suffers in its power struggles with the HRE and the Angevin Empire, and its ill-starred alliance with France. Britain, Iberia, and the HRE keep fighting to assert their control over the Papal Curia, stalemating each other, but further wrecking Papal power in the process for good. The Holy See gets wholly expelled from Italy, and eventually becomes an ineffectual ceremonial shadow of itself and a puppet of Iberia, with an alternating residence in Avignon and Santiago de Compostela, mostly used by the Iberian kings as a minor propaganda prop for the Reconquista. The Western monarchies eventually turn to propping up the power of the national episcopates and keeping a tight leash over them, in order to affirm secular control over their respective national clergy. Latin Church becomes quite decentralized, with the clergy of each nation being governed by the local episcopates, subordinate to the secular governments. The Ecumenic Council once again becomes the only authoritative body for the whole Church. This allows an uneasy reconciliation between the Latin and Greek Churches, although a sizable deal of distrust lingers. The success of the Crusades, and the rebirth of the Byzantine Empire, has however narrowed the distance between West and East somewhat.

-It is currently CE 1500. Although Europe spent a remarkable degree of time ad effort recovering from the Black Death, as well as from the wars that redrew its map, it seems to have regained some degree of stability, under the hegemony of the great monarchies of the HRE, Britain, Iberia, and the Byzantine Empire in an uneasy equilibrium. Wealth is filling the coffers of the kings and emperors, from improved control of the trade routes with the East and the political stability of the centralized monarchies dispelling feudal chaos, which fosters the growth of the urban trading elites. The lore plundered from the conquest of the Middle East and improved cultural exchange with Asia are fueling a huge humanistic Renaissance of cultural, scientific, philosophical, literary, and technological knowledge, with a mix of classical Greco-Roman achievements rediscovered, wholly new European ones developed, and a spread of ideas and techniques from India and China.

Despite somewhat improved access to the trade routes with Asia, the surviving Islamic states still remain a substantial obstacle, the European elites apparently share an endless appetite for the goods of the East, and trade competition between the great powers is raging. All of that all drives the search for new and better trade routes with Asia, which is made possible by advances in European naval technology providing truly Ocean-worthy ships for long travels. Intrepid explorers have now circumnavigated Africa and found a route to India and China, while others have brought back amazing news of a new landmass to the west of immense size and wealth."

What do you think?

Bobalugee1940 (talk) 22:08, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Which flag?
So Sabah has used three flags in its history as a state of Malaysia. I'm not really interested in the first one, as it was adopted from 1963 to 1981, I think. My problem is that the second flag used by Sabah, which was used from 1982 to 1988, looks like the flag of the Philippines, which annexed the state sometime in the 1983:DD universe. I don't know if I should use that flag for the Sabah Autonomous Region, or if I should use the current flag. What do you think, LG?

Godfrey Raphael (talk) 23:38, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Timeline Talki
A jolly guten tag to you, LG.

I now take the liberty of asking you yet another question about my timeline. This question regards the discovery of the New World.

So, I have finally decided on Portugal discover the New World around the same time as OTL, with Columbus and all, but my question to you is could it happen earlier (ex: 1400 - 1470) if it happened a different way?

                 ♒   "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:36, January 29, 2013 (UTC)