Board Thread:Timeline Discussions/@comment-7559950-20130911012534/@comment-3428312-20150118210101

Lordganon wrote: Not a "claim" when it is the truth, and your head is too far in the sand to see it.

What part of the amounts and items being irrelevant made no sense to you? Simple English. All not having more ready access to those items does is slow them down. This is long-proven fact. A USSR with a worse supply situation still overruns the Germans, just takes longer as they have to make, repair, and bring up their own supplies. For pete's sake, this is the same as all other Russian wars in that regard.

Wrong. German plan, and German pressure for it to happen. Historical fact. And it not happening had nothing to do with Mannerheim. Easy to figure out if you would bother - I even told you who, ffs. No, I think this is a case of you not understanding when you're wrong.

Not having access to food or the ability to transport, for example, does a LOT MORE than slow an army down. It kills it, as even the most basic of logistics shows. Not having access to Lend Lease means the Red Army's logistic system is massively reduced, to the point of being incapable of the large scale offensives we saw in OTL. In simple terms, the Soviets aren't going to be overruning any Germans if they can't get the supplies to do so. Quite frankly, you're thinking in video game logistics if you believe the Soviets can afford to almost suddenly lose all of Lend Lease and then magically start producing their own (Especially considering around a fourth of all machinery the Soviets used in their factories was western in origin!) while maintaining their production of other things. As to the last bit concerning previous Russian wars, don't you think it's slightly absurd to compare 20th Century armored warfare to say the Russians fighting the Mongols nearly a 1000 years before for instance?

As to who presented the plan, again you're still wrong. Allow me to provide a link:http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-EF-Decision/USA-EF-Decision-11.html

" Mannerheim presented a proposal to the OKW for a winter offensive to be directed against Belomorsk, the Soviet port on the White Sea at which the Murmansk Railroad branched southward toward Leningrad and southeastward via Obozerskaya toward Moscow. He thought that after Leningrad had fallen he would be able to spare eight or nine brigades for such an operation and that the German and Finnish advances toward Kandalaksha and Loukhi could be continued at the same time. 10  Hitler and the OKW took up Mannerheim's proposal immediately."

There you go, I even bolded it for you. Honestly,