Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flip back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
Maps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

I added a few nations of mine to the map. It is in the gallery. It is up to you whether or not you choose to use it. Reximus55 (talk) 01:32, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well, as a warning; the map was very rushed, as despite having made the other four turns before, because of lack of time, i did everything on the last turn in only 40 minutes.I have a feeling that the map is packed with errors due to the rushedness, but i have no time to correct them now. --Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:21, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Eh.As that wasn't enough, the rushedness also made me forget to post the map on the main page until right about now.Well, i have at least four errors about now:


 * The result of the Venetian-Bosnian war isn't there
 * The result of both the wars of Orissa with Tulangbawang and ex-Sundabang are also missing
 * the Turkish gains against Armenia are also missing
 * Since i didn't made a pixel count of Cyrenaica, the Cypriot gains on their war with them also aren't there.

--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:15, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

1. why did  you revert Novorossiya to how you want it again, my colony existed bordering the venetian colony and surrounding the dutch NPC colony for decades now, not sure why the change of heart(it seems to have cost you more time that you should have put to fixing the problems you laid out) 2. I made the Tatar stae my vassal. 3. I annexed those three retarded "states" that are between me and tatar. 4. My expansion into Sibiria is not added. WHy do you keep reverting the changes I do to the map. you take so much time and effort to do so. It seems that you are doing this just to see me uber-rage and have an excuse to ban me from the wiki. I'll fix everything  yet again -Lx (leave me a message) 14:57, March 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, i didn't noticed the part about the Tartars, i don't understand your first point, apparently is in the rules that you can't sum results of wars that are more than 30 years apart, and come on, if i hadn't added your expansion on Siberia, your holdings on Sbir wouldn't be connected with your main holdings.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:07, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * My fist point is about how I always fix novorossiya the way that it was supposed to be done and then you go and ignore it by deleting that and doing your own thing, ignoring the fact that that is how i wanted to expand my colony(i.e. what i meant by expansions). lets be honest, I checked the map just now, and I saw a little tiny sliver of land along obdorsk, lets be honest, that is smaller than my colonial expansion, if I am giving up -1 point in the algorithm ,I expect much more than that tiny-ass sliver,( I expect more than 3x my colonial expansion rate at the least for that sacrifice of 1 point) that in all honesty, if that was the epansion rate, I wouldn;t be able to conquer sibir given a millenia. Here's my probmlem with the rest: You go back 40 years and retcon the result of a war, more like I was under the impression I woned them for over a month and they you were all like LOL NOPE! And then again, nobody tells me, nobody strikes anything out in my posts to tell me that I have to continue the war longer(witch I would have if you had told me that i couldnt couple results, I had over 45% in the algorithm, even though i would have thought that it was BS), it would not have a lasting effect on Sibir war, I still would have won, and everyone would have been happy. Insetad of telling me I did not win against them when i did, you wait at least a week and you say LOL NOPE to piss me off(or at least thats how it looks like from my perspective).-Lx (leave me a message) 15:23, March 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Let's see: Your first war was never shown in my maps because of its irregular situation and forgetfulness.or, you claimed you won the war, thanks to a x1.5 bonus that was "obtained" through changing your government on the middle of an war, which was a doubtful move.I tried to warn you back then, but nobody answered, i forgot and only remembered it in 1630.then i asked the other mods whether i should add your "possession" of those three states, taking your argument into account.it was then decided that the x1.5 bonus of that war was invalid, and your gains without the bonus should be added.And, good to know by what number you do expect to expand (seriously).And, i only came to know that the limit was 30 years after your war had ended, since i had to check that out with the other mods again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:38, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * look, I would have done a 4 year war, if I had to, I wouId have been bloody annoyed and thought of it as BS(retconing war then telling me past those coupling years that it no longer counts and not letting me coupling results), but I would have done it to avoid another incident, I had 45%, I would have captured them one way or another, right now I am just irritated that i did a war, and now you are saying that the results I posted on that war are bollocks a week after the fact, a week after I would have ajusted, so i believe that they should be in my territory. About Sibiria, I want to expand into it with a rate that allows me to take it in about 100 years(OTL colonization of sibiria time). just a heads up, but in 1750s expect a russian sibiria...what I meant was the minimum that I want to expad by for it to count as a -1(hence the at least). But I also wonder, what rate do nations expand into the black areas at(with their main nation)?-Lx (leave me a message) 02:42, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * 100 or 150 pixels.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:02, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I dont think that that number is plausible, and it is realy not worth my -1 in the algorithm. at that rate, I would hope to have the 250 000 pixels that is Sibiria in about 2.5 thousand years...in other words, I wouldnt have had it if i expaded since the begining, and no nation can hope to have it by the end of the game. We should fix that.-Lx (leave me a message) 03:20, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * So, 300?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:42, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * that would still put it at around 833 years. How about this: no set pixel count, but it will take 40 turns of "expansion into sibiria" to reach the Pacific(along the borders of other nations), and another 60 turns  to take the rest-Lx (leave me a message) 20:13, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what i did last game.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:13, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Siam, Formosa, and Hainan are all Chinese vassals. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 21:36, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, Not long after you claimed to have vassalized Siam, somebody started to control it.so it was taken out of vassalage.now that nobody's playing, you got to try again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:43, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Yank 00:42, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Hainan = Formosa. They settled it decades ago.
 * 2) Siam was destroyed attacking the Khmers.

Yeah, but it isn't showing up on the map. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 01:34, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

India and Brandenburg
Okay someone has removed my enclave just north of the Netherlands, I bought that land to help me colonize. Where is it?Andr3w777 (talk) 16:10, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

the Netherlands had no player, you couldn't buy it from them.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:04, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well I did have them puppetised, before it was said it was implausible (cmon, the Scandinavians are in Bengal 100 years before the Brits!!). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:35, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

You have to realize how ridiculous it is for an Indian kingdom ,who by the way has not unified the area yet, to puppetise a major trading power like the Netherlands. Seriously.AP (talk) 05:51, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And you need to see how bad it is you guys have puppetised kingdoms 100 years before the British and you have less people than them. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, you're still a backwards far off country. You have to realize that power does not work vice versa. You pale in the shadow of great European powers like Venice, Scandinavia, and Germany, who have Rambo navies and clone populations. Orissa, on the other hand, is still subject to religious conflict, internal strife, and other problems, while the Netherlands has no problems whatsoever and could not be physically dominated by any country at this time. Even if Germany tried to subjugate the Netherlands, it would be implausible because they are nearly on par.

21:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yipee! Time to shatter some arguments.

And yet each of those nations would lose to me. Why, becuase my leaders are the best in the world. I too have a navy which only China might be able to rival, and an army which I don't even want to get into. Fine, I have religious conflict, but so do all the European powers (yeah, the Germanic Church counts, so does the Italian one). Internal stife? Are you trying to make me laugh? And what other problems? If my citizens have problems, they pay and move to the colonies, new Orissan territories, the puppet, or the vassals. I have brilliant literacy rates (for the era), a large growing merchant class (bigger than Venice for the obvious reasons) and a great navy.

I am not a power to be taken lightly. Especially not with my gaining superiority on the subcontinent. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:43, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Subcontinent ≠ the world. 00:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Of course. However, superiority on da subcontinent = greater pool of resources to fund trading and navies. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:09, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The problem is he thinks he's more important than he really is. He can claim to be all he can but the only thing that backs up what he says is the population bonus. Even then they're still inequipped. Most of his population lives in rural poverty and that can't be feasibly changed by any government of the era. So you want all of us to believe that everything about your country is amazingly good? This Indian wonderland is a just a dream. AP (talk) 00:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I never said everthing is amazing. I still have poverty, yes. However, we are in no way inequipped. Poverty = cheap labour. All our armies have stuff which can easily rival the Europeans. However, there is a growing class of merchants which began to form over 70 years ago under my first Raja. Their number has only grown. My military has been worked on, and they have more experience than many European armies. I have traded heavily with European powers, spreading back ideas to Orissa. Now I might say that the puppetisation would have been implausible for the era, but you should not be allowed to puppetise the Bengalis. Seriously? 100yrs before the Birts?!! I am actually tempted to throw it out into the open and ask other players if they think it is plausible at all. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:06, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

We are the ATL equivalents of the Brits. 19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit. You haven't even united Germany yet. Plus Britiain only got to India in the 18th century. Do you even know about the Battle of Plassey (1757)? And why have you got Carniac as a part of your nation? One, it is more than half the size of your puppet - you cannot vassalise it. Two, it was under my sphere of influence - you agreed to it. Three, you are just proving my point. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:10, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

When you get right down to it, you can see that I haven't united Germany because of player nations which makes algorithms execessively harder. And Germany is a different case to Britain. England just trampled some crazy Celts, while I have to deal with shitloads of diverse Germans. In other news, everyone knows that other nations like Portugal and whatnot got to India before India. I am merely comparing ourselves to Britain in terms of power. Also Carniac is much weaker than Mysore and was never under Orrisan influence. And who the damn hell cares when and what the Brits did?

21:59, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

India vs Germany algorithm
00:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Germany
 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Bone (MV), Luxembourg (M), Spain (MV) = 1.08 ~ 1.1 ~ 1
 * Military Development: +20 - +30 (given the time)
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion: -1 (or -0 given the time)
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: X
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6 (-0 at given times)
 * Total: 47 to 65 + chance = following statement
 * 48 > Total < 74
 * Orrisa
 * Location: +4 (regular German invasion probably from Mysore)
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Orrisa + four vassals = 12 ~ 0
 * Military Development: +20 to +30 (given time)
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -8
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance: X
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8 (-0 at given times)
 * 35 > Total < 45
 * Germany runs an ordinary run-of-the-mill conquest.
 * 35 > Total < 45
 * Germany runs an ordinary run-of-the-mill conquest.

Haha. There's a reason why I picked India. My population is 8 digits. Look at the algo now. I'm still gonna get land off you. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Hey genius, this is still ATL. 60% of India was ravaged by the Caliphate and shitloads of other people were raped to the point of infertility.

And yet you forget that happened 2-3 generations ago. Fertility levels would be normal. Most of the area I own was part of Bengal, and they would have had respect for the local population. My population would not be anywhere near the point of the Europeans, it would be much greater. There is no chance my population is in the 7. This is India we are talking about, where people still have 10 kids in states like Bihar. And you forget all that raping would only increase my population. And all of them are hindu cause I converted. You really did dig a hole for yourself with that point. They had no contraception in the era, kids would continue to be born. And what about you? You nations were in a state of continous warfare with the Capilate, having ravaged your lands. I will make a proper algorithim and show you how much Orissa would win by. And just because you are European does not mean you are great. For 20 odd years, all thats happened is that your colonies have expanded - thats it. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:45, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Look, you need to fit one thing into your head: Not everyone want to be Hindu, and not everyone is Hindu, and those little Muslim ghettos you run sure aren't helping the population.

Also I was invaded by the Caliphate at the same time it collapsed, and I was re-created as a much larger successor state. Also expanding colonies = more people.

And you population is in the 7 digits - at least 7 to 8 million, because only your main nation counts as part of the population bonus, not your little vassals states and stuff.

19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

My main nation is huge. The Orissan Rajputs were incorporated into it in 1648 (collie forgot about it, he siad he didn't realise that happened), the Godavarians were incorporated this year (1654) and Bijapur has been a part of my nation (its a part of Orissa, not a seperate entity as many people are fond of thinking it is) for over 30 years now. It will still have atleast 4-5 the amount of people than in Brandenburg. What will they do when they get forced. If the capilate tried making us muslim, the Orissans are making everyone hindu. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa vs Brandenburg
Orissa: Total: 62 + chance (max 71)
 * Location: 5 (you invaded me)
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Orissa (L), Mataram (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M)): 14/13 = 1.1 = 1
 * Military Development: 22/30 = 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 8
 * Expansion: -8 (0)
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: x
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent wars: -8 (0)

Brandenburg: Total: 32 + chance (Max 41)
 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Avantage: 5
 * Strength: (Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Bone (MV), Luxembourg (M), Spain (MV)): 13/14 = 0.9 = 0
 * Military Development: 30/22 = 1.36 = 1
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: -2 (0)
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: x
 * Nation age: 5
 * Population: 7
 * Particiaption: 10
 * Recent wars: -6 (0)

Result: Reuslts speak for themselves.

~ Imp

All this shows is that you are skilled in twisting the results to your favor.

19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

No, well maybe. Yet I am adding on bits you have missed out and lets be serious here. A defending army will use every advantage they get. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't get any of my colonies, bar Nea Larnaka, expanded, and I didn't get my small portion of Cyrenaica. And then Lx came along and changed his colony and then didn't expand mine. 49.176.34.37 21:49, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Both of you are seriously over-estimating how powerful your nations are. Your also making economly stupid moves by going for places with little profit to be made. I will be correcting this situation soon. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:37, March 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Like where? I have taken Java - very economically viable. All my puppets and colonies are in good spots to grows crops at... [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:45, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Labelled Map


So I was bored and updated the labelled map. BTW this is as of 1630.AP (talk) 01:10, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

How do you put the subtitles on it? so i could make my own maps later.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:16, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There are some mistakes on that map in terms of territories, e.g. Comchellak is much larger and Arabia own all of the Tanzanian spice islands. But other than that it is good. Also Comchellak is a vassal of the Arabian federation and its full name is the Republic of Comchellak. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:46, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Its a great map. Just Bijapur is part of Orissa proper so it would be Orissa to. But great map. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:53, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

For Japan, there's a misspelling. It should be Mononobe, not Monobe. -Kogasa   2013年3月09日 23:06:13 (JST)

Thanks so much. It looks awesome! CourageousLife (talk) 16:28, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

I just fixed all of the things you guys pointed out.AP (talk) 22:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Religion Map


Since Callumthered had asked me what was the situation of Catholicism on Europe, i went to do a coloured map of this.it got big, so now this became a incomplete world map.dark blue represents Kappelists, blue represents breakaway churches, light blue represents Catholicism, light green represents Nestorianism, green represents Islam, and yellow-brownish represents orthodoxy.it is still incomplete.Obviously, this is political too, as some nations will have some state religion, but the population will follow other one.Anyway, i don't know the Arabian Federation's state religion, to start with.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:48, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian federation doesn't have a state religion, its dominantly Islamic though. Many branches of Islam though, but I'd say Sunni or Ibadi Islam to be dominant. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:51, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There would be a lot more ortododox wrong...-Lx (leave me a message) 19:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:36, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Well, Russia is very wrong on that map. just look at the russia I made, and then you will see the real face of orthodoxy. you did your annexations horibly wrong. you made moscow a seperate state, and now Minsk is not longer in personal union. You should realy use my map, because at this point I think you just want an excuse to piss me off so you can purposefuly get me banned.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:07, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The latter is not the case.in fact, i sometimes think that Scraw is being implausible just to have something to complain about, so he can get me to quit.We might be able to work this out, when it comes to Minsk.are you a hereditary monarchy?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Russia has an old novgorodian style Elective Monarchy. The Tsar was a firm believer in Russian unification, and once he gianed the title of Tsar of Minsk through marriage, since he wanted at the least unified russian realm under one Ruler, and he did not want his efforts to be in vain when he died in case his son did not become the next Tsar(elective monarchy) so he had the two Crowns linked, although he kept the title of duke of minsk to his own family, the title of Tsar of Minsk and Tsar of Novgorod and Russia were linked. I find it is good logic, but If that's too complicated you can consider it like an act of union/annexatoin and ignore the part about a seperate Duma being built in Minsk.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Yes, this sounds like a good logic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:27, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Just saying, but shouldn't Bijaur be hindu? Considering I have expanded my influence there and introduced anti-muslim laws and the Trimurts have been converting people like crazy? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 07:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Update time? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion (Continued)
You can't mass produce coal... There is no process to coal other than dig out of ground and then burn... Scandinator (talk) 00:38, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fine.......be like that......

00:45, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll continue my petition, see Industrialization in Archive 8 CourageousLife (talk) 01:52, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. I didn't realize I'd forgotten you. Anyways It seems that one of Scandinavia, Germany, China or Venice will be the first to industrialize. If there is a tie in the algorithm here then Collie has the final decision. Scandinator (talk) 01:42, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Also what cloth did Britain have?

01:46, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

It seems like I am close to completing the general education(been working on that since like 1590 or something). Anyway I feel like if China is so close to the top then we should have an Asian industrialization part of this. But only China since it is the only Asian nation that has alot of points.AP (talk) 01:50, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The problem with China industrializing first is that Crim posts very irregularly.... Scandinator (talk) 12:30, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * So, could you add something to the chart so that the number of times you post in a set span of time affects your final score? CourageousLife (talk) 20:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I still haven't had any response to the fact that the Russian colony Novorossiya is a large producer of cotton, and that russia itself is a large producer of flaxseed and linnen, witch i consieder a resource I can utilize to industrialize. Also, what counts as heartland wars, I mean, my "heartland" is more of an area encompasing Moscow, Novgorod, Arkhangelsk, Nikolaevsk, staraya rossa and staraya ladoga, the only wars faught there were arguably the war against velikopermie and the mahdi, witch all happened in excess of 50 years ago. to reiterate I do not want to start industrialization since I started it in PMI, but I just want to see how I stand compared to others.-Lx (leave me a message) 13:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, whoever put me up there. I would like to point out that my major fabric is linen, not cotton, but I'm not complaining. CourageousLife (talk) 20:17, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the table. The only nations that i've seen consistently developing and deserving the general education point is Bavaria, China, and my own nation. Correct me if i'm wrong. Also, this is a friendly neighborhood reminder that only mods may edit the table.AP (talk) 06:51, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram/Orissa
Total: 70
 * Location: (5+3)/2 = 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Mataram (LV), Godavari (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economic: 8/1 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -(9+7)/2 = -8
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits: 5864
 * Time: 19:38 = 216
 * (5864/216)*pi =85.288422
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Lampung (Tulangbawang)
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economic: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Coalition Victory. ((70/(70+35))*2) - 1 = 0.3333333 (Damn it!!)

Coalition can claim 33.3% of Tulangbawang. War lasts 3 years - finishing in 1653, allowing the Coalition to claim 27.8% of the country. The territory is added onto Mataram.

Discussion
Your location score should be an average of both coalition member's scores. E.g. (4 + 1)/2 = 2.5 - 3 --<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:27, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:29, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals can't lead wars.AP (talk) 05:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And another correction.you led three wars on the last 15 years and helped on one.one of the wars youled lasted 5years, the other 5 and the other 2.so your recente war score is -14.Obviously, if Orissa is the leader, and you did your editcount wrong again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

The two phase war was actually 4 years, yet two would be taken away as it was a simultanious invasion. Then there was indeed a 5 year war. And then I helped for 2 years. So -9. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

No. Your war with Malwa, which started after 1636, lasted 6 years.Then there was the war with Tondo/Namayan/Maynilla, which started one year before your war with Malwa, and which you leadered, and which also started after 1636, and then your first stage of the Sumatran war and your helping of Ethiopia on the war against Adal.supplies sent do not count.only military aid. So, -14. Or better, we could sum the recent war and expansion of both your leaders, to avoid trouble.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but the Ethiopian/Malwan war were at the same time, and it only says -1 per year, not per war. Yeah, the second part makes sense (you mean adding them and then dividing by 2 right?). Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:50, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * So you would have -8 on expansion (-6 (Mataram)+-9 (Orissa)/2).--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:08, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Collie could you respond please? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I was responding until your edit provoked an edit conflict and delayed this reply.anyway,...:

"Every year of war in the last 15 years that you fought as a leader is -1."

Yes, this description gets very vague on this situation.but i would assume that two simultaneous wars would end like two points for an year, after all your army would be very strained by the quantity and distance of wars. like a two-front war.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that should depend on population. I have enough people to field a couple small armies so they won't be as fatigued. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:14, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, not if you have two or three armies. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:11, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * But OTL, in the Second World War, would Russia have stood a two-front war, even with their population?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ok Collie, I have ended the war. Could you give me the link to the page where we can see our main edits so this confusion does not arise again? :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:31, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Editcount

--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

You were right all along. However, COULDN'T YOU HAVE SHOWN US THE PAGE BEFORE, lol XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I never thought that linking the page was an option.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, it does make life a lot simpler. I think it might be useful having the link on the rules page (in the edits part of the war algorythm). It will benefit all users. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:57, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And on a different note, would Orissa have managed to take over Khandesh completely by now? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:58, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 87
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV) = 6/4 = 1.5---2
 * Military: 16/2--8
 * Economy: 14/2---7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.8720468
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10

New Georgia
Total: 22 x 1.5 = 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: New Georgia(L)---0
 * Military: 2(existed for 2 turns so far)---0
 * Economy: 2---0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation age: -10
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: 10

Result
(87(120))*2-1= 45%

New Georgia is done.

Disucssion
So, were you trying to conveniently forget that the motive factor existed?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I did forget that. Anyway New Georgia's population is around 50,000 and since it has existed for 2 turns only, it can only have 2 turns of military and economy. Also whoever did chance messed it up.AP (talk) 17:27, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and 10x the population of New Georgia is 500,000 which my population is well over that. Sorry I didnt mention that earlier.AP (talk) 17:47, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, there is a rule about chance that says the editcount counts only the edits made on the main articles, not all the edits, and i saw that about 40% of your own edits are on talk pages. Obviously, i'm trying to enforce this rule, because nobody uses it, and the probably might be because that some players don't know how to find their numbers.because when i tried to enforce this rule in the Prussian/-German war, Imp asked me how he did to find his number, for example.My edit was a correction of your first version, which used the total number.And another thing: Dif you do anything with New Georgia before independence?The point is that if you did nothing, so they would have only 1 point on economy and infrastructure.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:47, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Why is there three copies of the same algorithm? I'm deleting two just as a heads up.AP (talk) 17:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Checking the page history, It was Andr3w.He apparently went to talk about the algorythm of his own war, and somehow he tripled the quantity of algorythm of this war.must be something with his iPad.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:12, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm on an iPad is there anyway someone could put the algorithm up for the Bavarian invasion of tyrolia? I can't do that here and have no clue when I'll have access to a computer.Andr3w777 (talk) 16:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll get on it for you. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:11, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

?
The talk page is blank is it just me or is everybody having this problem?AP (talk) 17:33, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Just this morning i had the same problem.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:36, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I've not had this problem lately but I have experienced it in the past. It just means that we should archive some more of the page is all. That will stop it happening again for a while, but it is basically random but the bigger the page, the more likely it is to happen. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:09, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think so.this page has been cut down to size recently.Just 50.000 kb, while the Mian page is 365.000 and it seems like it never happened again.When it happened to me, i went to the edition window, submitted my edition without having changed anything, and the thing went back to normal.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Same problem a while ago.

21:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I just archived the page a week ago............ But yea... Just exit and reload the page and it should be alright. Scandinator (talk)

Bavaria
Total: 59
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Bavaria (L), Salzburg (MV), Bohemia (M)) = 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 8/3 = 3
 * Economy: 10/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit Count: 1208
 * UTC Time: 15:56 = 150
 * 1207/150 xpi = 25.2793489
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Tyrol
Total: 38
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Tyrol (L)): 4/6 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/8 = 0
 * Economy: 3/10 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Bavarian victory. ((59/(59+38))*2) - 1 = 0.216494845

Bavaria can claim 22% of Tyrol. Depending on how the war lasts, Bavaria can claim x% of Tyrol.

Discussion
Just doing this algo for Andrew as he requested someone to do it for him as he cannot edit that well. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I appreicate your help Imp, can you figure this out? I really don't have time to.Andr3w777 (talk) 01:03, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Rome
Total: 62
 * Location: +5 (Turkey) + 4 (Persia)/2 = 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +8 (Attackers Advatange, larger Colonial Empire, Capital on High Ground)
 * Nations: (Rome (L), Persia (L), Venice (M), Thrace (M)) +14/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 4+3/2 = 4/2 = 2
 * Economic Development: 2+3/2 = 5/2 = 2
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Chance: 4
 * ​Edits: 3301
 * UTC time: 11:27 = 14
 * 5811/98= 235.785714*pi = 740.742667
 * Motive: +3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: 7+8/2 = 8+20 = 28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Armenia
Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: (Armenia (L)): 4/8 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/4 = 0
 * Economy: 2/4= 0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Population: 6
 * Nation age: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Outcome
Coalition victory. ((62/(62+31))*2) - 1 = 0.33333333

The Coalition can claim 33.3% of Armenia. If the war lasts 3 years, the Coalition can claim 27.8% of Armenia.

However, due to the fact that Rome has 13% of Armenia through its previous war, 13+27 = 40%, Rome topples the Armenian government.

Discussison
Alright, you can't claim help from Venice without them saying anything and Persia is a leader. Since they are leaders, their development scores is going to be fused with yours and divided by two. Again, you can't have 5 because there are no minorities in Georgia, or in Armenia (except for the Abkhazians and the Ossetians, but why would you care?).And your development scores are loe like that because you only started playing again in 1645, did nothing from there to the war and you can't update military, economy and the like while you are fighting in wars, leving only two turns in which you did domething.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:00, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Venice will support Rome with Greece, and Thrace lending military support. The other states also send supplies. Scandinator (talk) 12:49, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Venice
Total: 57
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Venice (L), Piedmont (MV), Three Sicilies (MV), Naples (MV), Croatia (MV), Albania (M), Montenegro (M), Greece (MV), Thrace (MV), Malacca (MV), Bavaria (M), Cyprus (S), Crete (MV): 31/6= 5
 * Military Development: 8/2 = 4
 * Economy: 12/2 = 6
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 1802
 * UTC Time: 4:06
 * 1802/24*pi = 235.8812484
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Puppet States: -2 (Thrace and Malacca)

Hungary
Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Hungary (L), Wallachia (MV): 6 = 0
 * Military Development: 2 = 0
 * Economy: 2 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -2
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7 (Slovakia ~2, Hungary ~3, Romania ~3, 1700 numbers)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussion
Well, since Hungary had a player at the time you posted, you must wait until he responds to your declaration.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:47, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Please, dont attack, i dont want any war. This is my first turn since i got back. You can destroy my nation very fast, im will not be a problem for you. Mawilda (talk) 16:06, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

All this strength lined up against a phantom threat. Yank 16:49, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Let's face it, he invaded this turn because he didnt want them building up their military or economy.AP (talk) 18:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus sends supplies and Crete military aid to the Venetians. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:57, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I hand been planning the attack for the last two weeks... And it was because of the mod events for Hungary that made them double in size. Scandinator (talk) 02:30, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

You say in your post:  Venice itself invades Bosnia-Serbia in an attempt to counter Hungarian expansion and connect the Croatia and Dalamatia to Albania and Greece. So you are now  double in size... and also:  Albania moves closer to the Venetian League and Montenegro requests to join as well. You control 2 more countrys... Mawilda (talk) 03:14, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

The Venetian League is a trading and alliance group, not a bunch of nations that I control. Albania and Montenegro are only interested in affairs near them and a good flow of trade and thus they help Venice with Balkan issues but not conflicts half a world away or even in Western Europe and they will only help if they can get something out of it too. I only managed to get about 25% of Yugoslavia to counter the Hungarian position in the area. Yugoslavia is hostile to all the statesin its area except for Bulgaria. Scandinator (talk) 04:04, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

What would each nation recieve for their efforts??Andr3w777 (talk) 16:08, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Portugal
Total: 81
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Portugal (L), Castille (MV), León (MV) = 8/6 = ~2
 * Military Development: 18/1 = 18
 * Economy: 12/1 = 12
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 4171
 * UTC Time: 21:00
 * 4171/2*pi = 6551.79148
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Aragon
Total: 24 x 1.5 = 36
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Aragon (L) = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 1 = 0
 * Economy: 1 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Luso-Castillian victory.

81/115 - 0,5 x 2 = 0,408695652

Castille and Portugal have right to 40,8% of Aragon, toppling their government.The war has to last three years for this to happen.

Discussion
Navarre doesn't exist, it was annexed into Aragon years ago.AP (talk) 22:05, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the information.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Bihar/Orissa
Total: 77
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Bihar (L), Orissa (L), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M), Rajputana (M)) 16/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economy: 8/1 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -9
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edit Count: 5958
 * UTC Time: 12:53 = 30
 * (5958/30)*pi = 623.920301
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4

Delhi
Total: 22
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Delhi (L)): 4/16 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Orissan victory. ((77/(77+22))*2) - 1 = 0.555555555

Orissa can claim 55.6% of Delhi - not a good time for Delhi at all. War lasts 2 years, allowing the Coalition to claim  41.7% of Delhi. The lands of Delhi will be incorporated into Bihar.

Discussion
See Collie, I used the edit count thingy. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Temporary departure
For the rest of the week, I will be going to a place where there is possibly no internets. So, for the rest of the week, untill Sunday(or when I come back, that might be friday or saturday, time zones and whatnot), I give permission to AP to post in my stead, I will message AP with what I would like done with Russia.-Lx (leave me a message) 15:29, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia
Total:
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 8
 * Strength: (Ethiopia (L), Adal (MV), Mayilia (M), Orissa (M), Oudh (MV)) 14/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 22/3 = 8
 * Economy: 8/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion:
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Kitara
Total:
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Kitara (L)) 4/14 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/22 = 0
 * Economy: 3/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussion
Hey Imp, could you handle this bit. I'm stumped over the land bit. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:58, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I was still in edit mode. Didn't even know you were about to make one. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:59, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Oh man, I already made one. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:01, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)