Talk:Venusian Haven

Looks very interesting. About the POD - I believe it's theorised that it was the impact of a planetoid that gave Venus its slow rotation; perhaps rather than having another planetoid impact to rectify this, you could have the original planetoid fall into orbit to become Neith, the moon? Fegaxeyl 17:54, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

It is not that the moon had an unstable orbit, it's that it was rotating clockwise. Our moon, Luna, rotates counterclockwise, and so is slowly moving away from us, whereas Neith continually got closer until its orbit brought it too far into Venus' gravity well and it impacted.

Also, why is the article in Wikitext? Wikitext is absolutely evil, and makes editing a cruel labyrinth of difficulty, melancholy, and general f%@#ed-upedness.

Jazon Naparleon 16:43, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ion propulsion system
I remember reading something on these propulsion systems that would be quite interesting for this TL. As I recall from a newspaper article, an American scientist theorised that, with an ion engine strong enough for it, planets, such as Mars, and for that matter Venus as well, could be reached in about 30-35 days. It would also reduce the amount of fuel necessary for the trip and thus increase the amount of payload the ship would be able to bring.--Vladivostok 10:00, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

So, I take it you didn't find this idea to be plausible?--Vladivostok 11:02, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, no, no, don't say that. I love the idea. Sorry, I haven't had time to answer, so please don't take it the wrong way. I love this idea, and I would love to incorporate it into this timeline. --NuclearVacuum 15:50, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vladivostok, I beleive you are mistaken. Ion thrusters would be used in situations in which time is not crucial, due to their low thrust. They only go fast after a looooooooooooooooooonnnngggg time, because they are always accelerating, but do so at an astoundingly slow rate.
 * Jazon Naparleon 16:43, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I've read a couple of things on the Internet about it, and it says it is feasible for missions to the outer and inner solar system, as well as manned missions to Mars. It is cheaper and takes up less room, but the debilitating factor, as you already mentioned is thrus, and energy consumption. But the greater the energy used, the greater the thrust. Thus, a nuclear powered engine should probably have to be used, perhaps coupled with solar panels for some extra power. Generally, any of the electricily powered propulsion systems use ions as propellants. Since the early sixties, drives like the Hall effect thruster have been tested, and in this TL, with the discovery of Venus being a habitable planet, it can only be assumed they would want a cheap, affordable way to get there.--Vladivostok 17:33, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well if you know my name, I support nuclear power in the vacuum of space =P --NuclearVacuum 17:46, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Well, now everything makes sense again. I also thought of something else. Since they are going to Venus, would the Moon act as a natural launching site for any missions? I seem to recall a plan regarding accelerating a space craft on the surface of the Moon and then launching it into space. Would that help in shortening the trip?--Vladivostok 18:05, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I have been thinking about that too. I think both Luna and Neith would become launching pads and colonies of their own, but since Venus would be the primary focus for the space programs, the idea of using either moon would be slow at best. Maybe only recently did a working Moon base became online. --NuclearVacuum 21:57, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the sooner the better, because the Moon is a logical stepping stone on the path to both Venus and Mars. Perhaps there is a sooner Mars landing then as well?=D--Vladivostok 22:16, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Venusian Colonies
I can't imagine the European, Asian or South American nations stand by and watch America and Russia gobble up all of Venus. They'd probably get most of it but I can see there being smaller states sprinkled throughout this new world. Neith I see as being a potentially heavily British populated world. Historically we don't always go for the most comfortable or sensible geographically but Neith is idealy placed as a waystation.
 * Well, I the author did state that he had no intention of only having American and Soviet colonies on Venus, but that there would be smaller European and other colonies as well. Although there could be British colonies on Neith, I think, as you already said, that Neith acting as a waystation would be one of the first things that the U.S. and the USSR would try and colonize.--Vladivostok 09:44, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * "I the author"? What's that supposed to mean? Anyway, I was going to mention this, but I have been busy for the past few days. The USA and the USSR would be the dominant forces on Venus, but they are by far not the only ones. I am still working on a map of Venus, which would show the oceans, continents, and area claims on the planet. Currently, I am thinking that New Kamchatka (USSR) and Kennedia (USA) would be the only two nations on Venus, while Japan, China, a joint European, and a joint Arab colony would also be on Venus. And based on how fast they are moving, I guarantee that India and Iran would form a colony by 2025, but I can't predict the future (LOL). But it is much more complicated to explain in only a few sentences, but I predict that there would be several "non-national" states on Venus. By non-national, I mean ones that were formed by a group rather than a nation. Maybe something like a "Scientology State" or something. But I also plan that the nation of Earth would sign a "Venus Treaty," among the issues would be to not colonies all of Venus, leaving acres of land free from colonization. Like I said, I need to explain it more than one sentence or paragraph. --NuclearVacuum 17:46, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it was supposed to be an L that went into well. Just a typo, relax, I'm from the TSPTF, I'm supposed to prevent trouble, not start it.:)--Vladivostok 18:20, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

No worries, just saying =P --NuclearVacuum 18:33, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking about how the ESA and other space agencies could reach mars as they have nothing like the space shuttle that they can use. I came up with two possible ways for the ESA to reach venus. The first would be to use a combined Arine V/Black Knight rocket, the Arine would take the Black Knight out of the Earths Atmosphere before the Black Knight would be launched and take a crew capsule to Venus from which the Astronauts could be launched down to Venus. The other way would be to build a base on Neith and then build a version of the Hermes space plane that could go down to VenusVegas adict 08:12, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

With such a strong incentive to travel into space, I'm sure the ESA would have developed an analogue to the space shuttle, and furthermore, so would have many corporations. By 2010 the practicality of technologies which today are merely theoretical would likely mean we have a number of large spaceplanes and would have invested into technologies such as inflatable modules - TransHab, and the CSS Skywalker. Indeed, the CSS Skywalker brings up an interesting point - it is a commercial space design using inflatable modules which, when fitted with an engine, could change its orbit allowing it to visit the moon. Could such a vehicle be developed for the Venus-Neith system, or even adapted into the large vessels needed to move people en masse between Earth and Venus? I'd like to create a page about this - the ships involved in interplanetary travel. Fegaxeyl 09:47, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

I did mention that the ESA could use thier version of the Space Shuttle in the second option. However unlike NASA the ESA doesn't have have as much cash, so a posible joint Orbital Shipyard between the ESA/Japanese Space Agency and posibly the Chinese Space agency as well would allow for the construction of space planes similar to the Hermes in orbit above Venus. P.S this is based on the plan by the Russians for thier mars mission.Vegas adict 10:52, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that the motivation is so strong that cash is less of an issue. Going to the moon had financial issues, but due to the nature of the mission it had a budget large enough to accommodate many fiscal problems. Colonising Venus is not only a major ideological project, it also has the potential to offer a return, which is why governments would allocate large sums of money to associated projects. When corporations are factored in their efficiency would drive down costs to make it much more affordable. The ESA's OTL financial worries would probably be dispelled because all participating nations would be willing to invest far greater amounts of money. Fegaxeyl 11:06, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Venus' moon
It could just be that a hypothetical impactor hits venus at aa different angle. Simulations show that if the protoplanet Thaea hit at one different algle, we would have had two moons. If it hit at another different angle, we, like venus, would have no moon. Mean Mr Mustard 19:54, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

British colonisation of Venus (Venusian Haven)
Any objections? Bob 17:17, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm, interesting idea. However, I was intending that the EU and ESA as a whole (including the United Kingdom) would have made colonies on Venus together. I believe that the colonization of Venus would bring the world more together. I take this because that is how the EU intends to get to the Moon today. I can understand, because the UK is much more independent and the most ant-EU of the member states. But I still need more convincing. How would the UK be able to colonize Venus on her own? What would that mean for the UK-EU relations? --NuclearVacuum 18:15, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

The actual turning point for this in terms of exploration is the 60's when the USSR really goes for it and heads to Venus. At that point the ESA hadn't been formed and most importantly, Britain wasn't a member of the EU. The UK had its own space programme and we successfully put a satellite into space under our own steam. The whole project collapsed because it didn't seem to be able to yield a reward in the long term. But here, we have a clear and very definable reward, which is the raw materials of Venus and a chance for greatness. Britain has been defined as a Great Power from the early 19th Century to now. Our economy is far in excess of India yet they have a space program purely because we have such a large government funded public sector. The Age of Austerity described has Britain geared up for space, scrimping and saving, hoping that it will cut it. That and the fact that the loss of empire made us feel aimless. This is the aim that could have rejuvenated Britain and maintained her as one of the premier powers of the world. And I don't really think the EU would actually settle areas for the EU and not her constituent parts. The ESA would eventually subsume the British Space Agency, but it would be a little more than a cheaper alternative to each nation having their own space agency. If anything, I see France getting into space and settling Venus before Britain. Bob 18:49, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not replying soon enough, but my mind has been in other places. Anyway, I think that is a pretty good idea. I also love how you dealt with the British in the GWS timeline, and I would love to see what you have in mind here. --NuclearVacuum 14:20, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Greens and Venus
Would the various groups proposing ecological and related causes have Venus orientated sections in this timeline? Jackiespeel 17:22, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * What do you mean? --NuclearVacuum 18:15, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Groups such as Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace and other bodies - the Venusian-orientated equivalents wish to maintain the biodiversity etc of and prevent ecological damage to Venus. Jackiespeel 18:26, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh? Well, I need to write the page about this, but the world would sign a, which would ban the use, excavation, and transportation of fossil flues on Venus. It would also leave a good portion of the planet under a non-governing zone, meaning it would be left alone. But you are interested in writing the articles for these groups yourself, feel free to do so. --NuclearVacuum 18:35, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know just enough about the subject to flag the issue - and I presume you mean fossil fuels? Jackiespeel 18:38, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Venusian nation contest... thing (hooray)


Hello to all of you who love the planet Venus. I am going to be opening a contest... thing where you can create your own nation on Venus. The idea worked very good for the Great White South timeline, and now its Venus' turn.

Well anyway, let me make a quick background for you all. My map of Venus is the exact same as in OTL. If you were to look at topographical maps of the surface of Venus (like this one), you may be able to see a difference between highlands and lowlands, the "continents" of Venus. If Venus had water, it may look a lot like Earth on the geographical sense.

But unlike a map for an ice-free Antarctica, a map of a terraformed Venus is harder to come to a conclusion. But I have found a map which seems to show what I have in mind very well. The map above is just that. But for any of you Russophobes out there, I came across this map on a Russian site, so yes, its all in Russian. Makes sense, the Americans went to Mars, the Soviets went to Venus. But you don't have to read Russian in order to understand the map. On the bottom of the map is the scale for the surface. I made a line showing where the ocean surface shall be on Venus, so you should be able to see the continents of Venus quite well. I got the map from this site. It also has similar maps of Mars, the Moon, Mercury, and the Earth.

So anyway, back to the contest... thing. As you can see, I have already added several nation. They are:


 * 1)  (USSR)
 * 2)  (USA)
 * 3)  (USA)
 * 4)  (Japan)
 * 5)  (Iraq)
 * 6)  (PRC)
 * 7)  (France)

There are also several other Soviet colonies which are not connected with New Kamchatka, and land left aside for a possible "Scientology State." But all these nations are not canon as of yet (excluding New Kamchatka).

Anyway, here are the rules for this contest:


 * 1) All land near the poles (all areas north and south of the 60th parallels) are off limits.
 * 2) Mostly the coast is up for grabs, please avoid inland or landlocked nations.
 * 3) New Kamchatka is the largest nation on Venus, please try not to grab so much land to overshadow NK.
 * 4) Please make an article about your proposed nation/colony, giving some detail as to its origins. Please add the   to the page.
 * 5) Write a subsection here, linking to the article. Also add a map showing the area of your proposed nation/colony.
 * 6) Be considerate, leave area for other to participate, and there needs to be area left ungoverned on Venus.

All the proposed nations will be voted based on a consensus, but I do have final say. Otherwise, have fun. Thank you for your support. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:01, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

New Quebec
A french-canadian colony made up of Quebec seperatists. Got to Venus because Canada (which was actually quite enthusiastic about having them leave) has connections to both the British and American space programs (true in OTL, substitute British with European) and often supplies astronaughts and equipment to these programs. No map yet, but I'll do it later. Probably somewhere near Themes and the closest available american colony, though. Interesting issue of whether or not to have nuclear power on Venus included.

New Scotland
Similar to New Quebec in that New Scotland was founded by the British government to allow that group of Scots who want an independent Scotland. It is quite good for all involved. Scotland stays British, Scots nationalists have an independent Scotland without the worries of natural resources as on Earth and the new republic is nicely dependent on the British government. Very close to areas of British settlement which are themselves close to American colonies. Along these lines what about a nation of New Kurdistan? Mumby 12:33, November 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * New Kurdistan? Well that is very out there. I never though of Venus becoming a haven for nationalities or separatists who want their own nation. But I see nothing wrong with the idea. Create an article about it. Maybe New Kurdistan would be part of the Iraqi colonialism. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:54, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

New Palestine
A state founded by Israel and other states to solve the Palestinian problem. However unlike the attempts in New Scotland and New Quebec the idea is not accepted by the Palestinians but instead it becomes a haven for persecuted Muslims from all different statesVegas adict 21:22, November 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Pretty interesting idea. But could it be possible to change the name to something more original, since it is not really supported by Palestine. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 22:55, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * That wasn't why i wanted to call it New Palestine, I thought that New Palestine might symbolise its position as a place for Muslim refugeesVegas adict 19:17, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Technology?
The Ion Engine is mentioned above... but there are other crucial technologies we might want to make articles for. Some of them are:

Solar Power: Probably the power source of most colonies on Venus as if the Venus Treaty becomes cannon, there are no fossil fuels there. Need to describe how and where it is produced and the widespread use.

Space Elevator: These things make it incredibly cheap to get people into space. Don't you think the colonizing nations would want one? Although we haven't found a way for them to be possible on Earth yet (do we in this timeline? I don't know) they're definitely possible on the moon, which is has lower gravity plus is tidally locked (no rotation) and as the principal problem of Space Elevators is stress caused by the rotation it would be a lot easier to build there. As the moon has ample resources for building spacecraft such as titanium for the hull, silicon for complex gadgets, and water (confirmed OTL) for fuel and life support, and the low gravity making it easier to launch ships it is already a natural shipyard. -- Michael Douglas


 * Sorry, but I am not so much of a wizard when it comes to technology, so articles for them are at the bottom of my list. You are more than welcome to start them. Solar power is quite obvious, especially since the Venusian day is much longer than an Earth day. As for the space elevator, OMFG!! I watched something on the Science Channel, where Michio Kaku talked about the idea, and I believe it is crucial to have one. It is a cheaper and safer alternative to a rocket. However, is the technology there yet? When it comes to an ion engine, the technology exists, but the coast makes testing them in OTL on the bottom of the list, with only two space probes having used them (one of which is on its way to Vesta and Ceres). But with the prize of Venus for TTL, I can see it having much more optimism and more support for its use. I believe that TTL can develop an elevator much sooner than OTL, but again, how close are we to having this a reality? Maybe it could be a very new technology for TTL, with maybe one in testing, or something like that. But I am very open to the idea. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:51, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

If you don't mind my interjection: a space elevator would actually be impossible on the Moon since it relies on the balance between the force of gravity and the inertia it maintains by being in orbit to keep itself at its altitude. If it were simply motionless around the Moon it would simply tumble downwards under the force of gravity. Unless you had some kind of mobile vehicle following its motion around the Moon then a space elevator there would be impossible. Red VS Blue 18:51, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Space elevators seem pointless to me, It would be easier to build an assembly point in space and then send all the materials up to the platform and building it in space. Besides i thought that there was going to be a shuttle system using Ion engines between a space station in Earth Orbit and in Venuses orbitVegas adict 19:24, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

But then the question arises. What do you use to get the materials into space? That is where the Space Elevator comes in handy. Red VS Blue 20:04, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Existing rockets could be used as could the shuttles. Space Elevators are simply an easier way to so it but the technology is as of yet unknown (In OTL)Vegas adict 20:30, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

The idea is that it obsoletes the use of shuttles, saving billions in fuel and material costs. If you don't think the technology would exist yet in this TL then space elevators can be ignored. Red VS Blue 21:12, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

I seem to recall reading/seeing on tv that with otl technology, it is essentially possible to do so - some small improvements in carbon fibers are all that are needed. Why nothing is really being done is the cost, and because of where (near the equator on stable ground) it would need to be built. With such a motive to get into space, it would be done, or at least under construction, here.

Lordganon 21:45, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Really LG? Would the tensile strength of carbon fibers be enough not to snap under the required tensions? I suppose I could calculate it... Red VS Blue 00:01, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Space elevators aside, most of the materials would come from the moon. The moon has all the resources for building the ships and fueling chemical rockets, plus the low gravity makes it easy to launch. The moon would actually have a good economy because this. The main problem with just using rockets is the cost. Think of the amount of colonists on Venus. All of them have to get off earth on rockets. The space elevator probably hasn't been developed on Earth in this TL, but on the moon, if you made the cable long enough, it would still be possible as the moon doesn't spin. Michael Douglas 00:13, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Its true, rockets launches would be much less costly from the Moon due to the lower escape velocity. I could see long range rocket trips starting from the Moon's rather than the Earth's surface, and I would actually say that's the most plausible way in which frequent long-distance missions would be undertaken.

Well actually the fact that the Moon doesn't spin is the only reason a space elevator there is impossible. Red VS Blue 00:43, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

He's right, Michael. Without the rotation, it would hit the surface before construction even finished.

But yes, we're at a point right now otl where we're at about the point where such fibers are strong enough - and that's without a motive like this. Testing really hasn't occurred or anything, but its believed to be workable. Really, the areas that could make it now, or soon, dont have the stable equatorial lands needed to built it.

Lordganon 01:25, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Lets concentrate on how to make launches more cheap, so we can replace the space elevator. We need something to get people into space cheaply, as it would already be cheaper to build stuff on the moon once you have the workers and colonists up there.

Firing everyone out of a big gun doesn't help, because G-forces would crush them. What other ideas do we have?Michael Douglas 15:40, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

A really big gun would work for getting supplies up, actually. Animals, people, and the like would still need to be launched otherwise, though.

Lordganon 00:56, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

True, this may be how supplies get to the moon from Earth, I still think the moon would build most of the spacecraft as delicate equipment wouldn't survive the trip. Michael Douglas 02:23, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

A Venusian Haven in my eyes
Ever since I began reading about the planets, has always captivated my imagination and I am a firm believer that it has effected the choices of my life ever since. It was probably the first planet I ever viewed with my own eyes. Though it was not the first planet I observed with my backyard telescope, I think viewing the crescent of Venus was more beautiful and clear than me viewing the moons of Jupiter, or the rings of Saturn. It was the fact that it was not the Americans, but the Soviets that have explored Venus in greater detail that made me pick up my first book on Russian language. So it was planet Venus that brought out my love of Soviet and Russian culture, and help be learn a new language. The word Venera was the first ever Russian word I learned. Venus is currently on the drawing boards for the current Russian space agency, with the proposed to launch in 2016. I am also fascinated with Venus because it is truly our sister planet in more than one way. Despite most of the population looking towards Mars, Venus would look the most like Earth if terraformed. Venus would have distinct continents, oceans, and mountains; while Mars tends to be more alien with one "massive ocean" and one "massive continent." Not that I am endorsing us to look at Venus for colonies rather than Mars, I am simply stating that Venus is a place that we should not leave in the dust. So for me to create a timeline that centers around a "Venusian Haven" is a big thrill for me, opening my imagination and being able to share and expand this dream with others who also love the aspect of space colonialism.

I was in the mood, so I wrote this fun explanation for this timeline. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:04, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Lets just say you are not the only one. ;) 86.153.249.120 11:25, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

News and updates
I have been doing some thinking about the timeline a little, and I would really like to bring it back on my agenda for the next cycle. I am currently working on this and my Two Americas timeline, but my recent ideas for this timeline show some promise. Here is what to [possibly] expect soon:


 * A [somewhat] detailed map of Venus made by me.
 * A remapping of the "countries" of Venus. Because the planet is so big, I feel it would be impracticable and selfish for me to create huge claims on Venus. So will be shrunk down from what I currently have it at. I also plan to work with the original proposers to define the locations of several of the proposed nations on Venus.

I hope to have these up soon. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:08, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Venusian Green Movement
How soon after the Earth based Green/Ecology movement will the Venusian equivalent be set up, and what self-descriptive term would they use? Jackiespeel 21:47, March 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I am so sorry (I feel like you asked me this before). I am not too sure, but I believe a "Green Venus" movement would start upon the colonialism of Venus (probably in the 1980s). If you are interested in the idea, you can create and work on the movement yourself. Call it whatever you want, because I know very little about green movements ^^; Have fun. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:40, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

I mentioned the idea in one of the Martian timelines - should someone wish to develop it. Jackiespeel 21:51, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

New Venus Map is (almost) ready


Here is the [WIP] map of Venus I have been working on all day. It shows the continents of Venus, as well as my current shape for (which will now use Maat Mons as part of its border). It also shows the location of the two major settlements/cities on Venus: Gagaringrad and Vladivenera. Here is an interesting fact, I chose the locations of Gagaringrad and Vladivenera primarily of the landing sites of the Soviet Vega probes. Vega 1's landing spot would be Gagaringrad (somewhat), and Vega 2 for Vladivenera. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:47, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Update


The one thing I like about map making is the uniformity, meaning that there is a standard shape to follow. When it comes to Venus, there is no uniform and standard map. This is because... well... Venus is bone dry. Only when taking into account the planetary conditions, topography, and amount of water will you be able to create a map. So the main reason that this map has been hard was because of this. I had the same problem with my Great White South timeline, but at least there was a semi-standard I could work from. When it comes to Venus, there is none. That is why I have decided to create a new map completely from scratch. There are some advantages and disadvantages to this, but I feel happy with how it has come out so far. As you can see, I still have a way to go, but look at the detail. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 22:18, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

One thing I would like to propose is why don't you try and include an article about terraforming Neith and Luna into something more Earth and Venus - like as I read an article which was called Luna: Earth II. Its an article on what if the Moon, Luna, had life on it. 81.131.124.48 19:33, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Featured
I think when this is done I'll nominate this for featured! PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 22:14, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

You better, this is amazing. I would have nominated this but I don't know how to. : 81.131.124.48 20:15, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

Any Other Colonies by other countries out there?
Is there anyone wanting a European e.g. French, German, or even Chinese or Japanese colonies out there?

General tiu 07:38, March 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Have been been working on a French, Japanese, and even a Chinese colony. But they are all non-canon and open for change. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:36, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Uzbeks have drunk my battery fluid!!
Привет мои товарищи! I am good. There has been a lot of activity on VH lately, so I think I would like to work here a little bit. Also, to answer your comments about the title, in short... Canadians are weird!!



Anyway, I have been neglecting a little bit. Here is that map I promised months ago. It has been finished for a long time now, but life has been sucking for me lately that I forgot to add it. I have also made this quick globe of Venus using Celestia. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:13, May 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Excuse me! the Canadian project is not completed yet. However, it is well on the way. Also check out New Scotland, more info that there was when I started on it!! 81.131.124.48 20:19, May 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I meant that Canadians are weird because of the SCTV skit they did about the Soviet Union and stuff. Did you see the link? XD --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:38, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kind of. By the way, I have started the article Beijinxing, see the article and feel free to add and comment!!!!!!! 81.131.124.48 21:00, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kind of. By the way, I have started the article Beijinxing, see the article and feel free to add and comment!!!!!!! 81.131.124.48 21:00, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

Wow...
I really like this TL. If you haven't already noticed I'm into the "terraforming" of different celestial bodies and I'd be glad to help edit this one if asked! ChrisL123 02:06, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Your Luna:Eath II articles are not bad at all. i quite like them. 212.219.36.5 11:33, May 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much ^_^ --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:30, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

Finalizing the borders


Alrighty than, we are getting along just great. However, I still need to know the borders for several of the proposed nations. Here's a quick map I made showing the (rough) borders for my proposed colonies:


 * Red: New Kamchatka and other Soviet colonies.
 * Blue: Kennedy, New Florida, and other American colonies.
 * Green: Helal and a potential Scientology colony.

All I really need is the borders for New Quebec and New Scotland. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:30, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

The maps are quite good. I quite like them!!! 212.219.36.4 09:01, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Have New Quebec towards the Western islands while have New Scotland on the Southern Islands, i think that might be a good place. Also is this map showing all the landmasses from across Venus like maps of Earth show, or just one hemisphere? Another thing i was 81.131.124.48 before my ip address somehow changed. Thanks! :D 86.153.249.120 11:22, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Something I realized...
I was reading the point of divergences and I came across a sentence: "The impact was strong enough (and at the right angle) to cause the planet to flip upside-down, and giving the planet a faster rotation." If that was the case, the continents would be upside-down. Wouldn't the map that you have drawn be upside-down, too? ChrisL123 18:05, May 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Very interesting question. To an extent, you are right. In OTL, Venus is tilted at about 177&deg;, with Earth tilted at about 23&deg;. I loved this idea, and I wanted Venus to remain at this tilt. Sorry, back to the map. Yes, Venus is upside-down, but that doesn't mean its map would be. As for all maps, north is always at the top of the page. So the map is correct, you just have to think third-dimensionally. Sorry, did I make any sense there? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:52, May 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sort of. I assume you're thinking of it as if OTL Venus's north would be in the southern hemisphere since it flipped and still be considered its "north" pole but its new ATL south would be its north right after the protoplanet hit it. So the map really should be upside down like the planet ATL satellites look at it. ChrisL123 19:38, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * You guys are cinfusing but I think I get it. 212.219.36.4 09:32, May 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * All I'm saying is if Venus was flipped upside down by a protoplanet, the map would look the same as the planet would or else it would cause confusion. If Earth was flipped upside down, for example, our maps would be flipped, too. Antarctica would be on the new north pole, Greenland would be on the new south pole region, etc. ChrisL123 20:03, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, one thing I needed to ask, NuclearVacuum, are you trying to connect this ATL to the New Union ATL, cause if you are, that would give this Atl more scope, such as the Americans deciding to merge colony areas with the (new) USSR on the bounds of friendliness and even going to the point of joint space programms to Venus and beyond. It would only seem logical to do so. ;). Another thing i was 81.131.124.48 before my ip address somehow changed. Thanks! :D 86.153.249.120 11:09, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Venusian United Nations (UN)
With so many colonies springing up on Venus it only seems logical to create a new United Nations for Venus. Therefore the changes would be that every new colony would have a Venusian UN embassy building and the head of operations would go to the one colony which would be build with co-operation to each other. Appreciate if u think about it. 86.153.249.120 15:54, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

I am now very angry. I was trying to make an article for New Florida but I couldn't import the table by copying it from new scotland to new frorida. But i have done it with other articles in the VH timeline, e.g Bejingxing. It says something about wikitext when i try to import it. I need help!! :/ :/ 86.153.249.120 20:43, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Oh dont bother, I managed to sort it out. :) 86.153.249.120 20:17, July 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the delayed response. I have already came up with a "United Nations of Venus" (which was mentioned on New Kamchatka's page). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 22:38, July 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh. Ok, Thanks for that. 86.153.249.120 18:58, July 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * You should cannonize British colonization of Venus as well. Thanks!! Imperium Guy 20:28, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Venusian States of America (VSA)
I hope you consider this proposal. Why don't you mearge the colonies of Kennedia and New Florida to create the Venusian States of America. The New Florida and Kennedia pages would still be there but instead you would be forming somthing like New Kamchatka, however the being non-independent. If I have your permission, could I make the page?? U could tell me on my talk page or here. Ta!! :) Imperium Guy 21:44, July 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Glad to see that you got a username. Welcome to the family ^_^ As for your suggestion, it's funny you bring it up. I originally planned on making a federation made up of American colonies, but I never advanced the idea. But my idea never includes Kennedy and New Florida together. I purposely put the two far from each other, but I see nothing wrong with creating a federation between Kennedy and other US colonies (Kennedy and NF are not the only two you know). I still think NF would be separate. I would also insist on giving this nation a new name. The "Venusian States of America"?? That reminds me of the "Lunar States of America" from . It just sounds very weird for me, especially as a national name. If you don't mind me suggesting, my original name idea for a federation of Kennedy was "Ishtar" (after the continent it lies on). Maybe something like the "Federated States of Ishtar" or something like that. Other than does two, I see nothing wrong with this suggestion at all. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:54, July 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * That would be great as my idea was a rough one. Therefore I think the name Federated States of Ishtar would be good. One thing i would want to suggest is the flag. I can't create one so I want to ask you if you could. It would be along the lines of the modern American flag with 42 stars (ill explain on my talk page) and the colour of the stripes being yellow and white/yellow and green instead of the American red and white. Your suggestions appreciated!! :) Imperium Guy 14:48, July 27, 2011 (UTC)




 * The, glad you like it. As for the flag, I made up a quick vector map (I hope I got the right coloring). If you don't mind me asking, why 42 stars? "Kennedia has 35 on its flag while the others might contribute to the remaining 7." Why would Kennedy gain more stars than the others? I would suggest one star for each state (no more, no less). But in any case, the flag I designed can only be temporary, and I will correct any mistakes or star numbers/orders. How does that sound? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:40, July 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Damn Sweet flag!! However, I was wondering would you be able to add "another american colony" to FSI as that would make it seem as something the americans would be proud of. I agree 42 seems too much. Would you consider 15-18 maybe? The colours of the flag are absolutely brilliant. Thanks for the flag!! :) Imperium Guy 10:47, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Glad that you like the flag. I see nothing wrong with adding that other American colony, but I may add more small colonies for the US that would remain separate. I would also rather that the number of states remain small. Unless several of the 15-18 states were created after the formation of the FSI (like Vermont and WV in comparison). I will correct the flag. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:22, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking that the colonists thought it would be easier to govern with smaller states in the colonies. So at the start, there might have been a few big states but then they were divided for convenience to govern and control. ( something like vermont). Ta!! Imperium Guy 16:20, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I also wanted to ask if you have got any plans for FSI's coat of arms. Ta!! Imperium Guy 16:24, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Stuff and more stuff


Here is a new map I made. It contains all the proposals, and a few more. Here is the key:


 * Red:, the , and other Soviet colonies.
 * Blue: The FSI, New Florida, and other American colonies.
 * Purple: New Scotland and other British colonies
 * Teal: New Quebec and other Franco-European colonies.
 * Gold: Japanese colonies.
 * Cyan: Chinese colonies.
 * Green: Helal, New Palestine, and other Iraqi-Arab colonies.

Note that these are not the final borders, I am sill accepting new suggestions. Names in quotation marks are only temporary names or unsure names. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:04, July 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Amazing Map! However, by looking at it, I think Bejingxing would not be logical as it means Northern Venus and you did say you were going to reconsider where to put the Chinese colony. If you don't mind, would I be able to put the map on the Venus page? :) Imperium Guy 10:51, July 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * About Bejingxing, I was the one who created it. I mapped it on a different map layout which doesn't work for the current map. Also because of its close resemblance to Beijing, I am making that particular colony obsolete. So don't worry about that, this is a new and different colony. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:28, July 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Half an idea - given the "New Quebec" colony, what would you think of another "Canadian" one started by people from Western Canada? Can tell you right now that, given the political climate when these things start being made, it would find support, ready enough, and oil-backed funding. Again, with the views taken into account, the islands in the middle of the American colonies, or the islands just south of the island part of Ishtar, would be best, though anywhere away from New Quebec and near American colonies would do just as good, though preferably near British colonies. Thoughts? Lordganon 18:11, July 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Can you create a South Korean colony on Venus as a response to the Chinese and Japanese Venus?General tiu 05:21, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Themis could be the other "Canadian colony started by the people" but that would be too close to New Quebec. Another place could be the western coast os the continent of Ishtar as it would be quite close to the British colonies and on the same continent as FSI (American colony). As for the South Korean colony, there is an island of the east coast Febe-Koku (Japanese Venus) which could be used for the S. Korean colony. However, the colony might also be a joint attempt by both Koreans as in this TL Saddam Hussein focused on creating a colony on Venus instead of the Gulf Wars. Therefore China might allow both Koreas to work together as China aldready has a colony. What do think the names of the colonies should be? Imperium Guy 09:22, July 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Themis doesn't meet any of the things I listed, imo. And given its color, its some sort of Franco-European thing. Lordganon 10:26, July 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Themis is a Franco-European colony, a colony made up from ESA member states. The reason New Quebec is in teal is because (at least for the ) Canada was a cooperator. So Canada could be a cooperate with France, Britain, and the US together. Also, why would western Canada want a colony? The main reason New Quebec was made is to make the Quebecers who want independence from Canada (same goes for New Scotland, Black Ukraine, and "New Georgia"). I just want some clarification. As for South Korea, I see nothing wrong with them doing cooperation with either Japan or the US. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:49, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Simply put, to get away from the Canadian government, who has a long history of enacting programs that are in many cases anti-west and pro-east, both in fact and in perception. Most people in Western Canada just want to be left alone, and this sounds like the perfect way to get it, lol. And, basically a 'if Quebec has it, so will we" type of thing too. Trust me when I say that the idea would find a great deal of financial backing and support, lol. Lordganon 17:26, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that the people of western canada would have a colony on Venus and that it would have great financial banking. What I meant was that Western Venus would have a colony on the same continent as that of the Federated States of Ishtar but it would be near British Venus ("1"). It would be on the west coast of the continent. Imperium Guy 21:48, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

And it being on the same continent is why I discounted it. That's asking for problems. The islands northeast of Ishtar would also work well, come to think of it. Lordganon 02:22, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Lordganon 17:28, August 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the delay. I made an upldated map showing area reserved for "New Alberta" (working name). I will upload it ASAP. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:41, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I like it, though I'd hoped for an island =)

All right if I make an article sometime today for it?

Lordganon 19:17, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

And, I figure "Buffalo" would be the name. Lordganon 20:26, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Lemme know when it's all right to make that article, nuke ;) Lordganon 07:36, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Fell free to start whenever you wish. Have fun, eh XD

The Future!! (oooooo)
Would you want to continue this wiki into the future on something like Future Wikia? I started an article on it called Venusian Haven but i don't know if you want to. If you don't like it, I'll delete the Article. Ta!! :) Imperium Guy 11:22, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

And before you can say anything, I am not advertizing, just trying to expand this timeline, just to amke it clear. :) Imperium Guy 11:25, August 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * NO!!!! Please do not expand this timeline any further. I would like you to please delete the Future Wiki page. This is an alternate timeline, not a future timeline. There is a big distinction between the two. Please and Thank you!!!!! --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:24, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Imp, what you have done is against our rules. Delete or otherwise remove that article, or I will be forced to punish you. Lordganon 07:22, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Damn It. Too much bad stuff. Sorry guys, won't do that again (Article Removed). :'( Hope u forgive me. Imperium Guy 12:15, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

aa.... Hello again
Sorry about all that. Do you think it would be bad if I proposed an India colony on Venus as the Japanese and Koreans have one? Ta! :) Imperium Guy 19:39, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

FULL STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is going on??? I am gone for a few days and this entire timeline has been overtaken. I just spent the past hour reverting edits and deleting duplicated maps and flags. I have not been so annoyed in my time being here. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:11, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Until this can all be sorted out, I am demanding that there be a full stop on all expanding on this timeline for a little while. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:43, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I am letting everybody know that I have protected all articles of VH from non-administrative edits. This will expire in one week for most, and one day for New Florida and Leda. Only the FSI was left alone. I have informed Impreium Guy that he is only to work on those three articles, and nothing else. Any questions about this, or if I blocked a page that is belonging to a non-administrator, please note me to remove the block. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 15:47, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Quick answers
Here is the list of space agencies and nations which have colonies on Venus. Only these:


 * Soviet Union (mid 70s)
 * United States (late 70s to early 80s)
 * United Kingdom (late 80s to early 90s)
 * France/ESA (early 90s)
 * Japan (late 90s to early 00s)
 * China (early 00s)
 * Iraq/Arab League (early to mid 00s)

All other nations will not have a colony (as of now), or would have to cooperate with one of the following. South Korea cooperates with Japan, India would cooperate with the UK, Germany would cooperate with both the USSR and France, and Canada would cooperate with both France (Quebec) and the US (western Canada). I am not saying other nations would not develop programs on their own, but that they would not be a colonial program until later. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:02, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nuke, most of those dates contradict your own work, from before and after the date of that post. Methinks we actually need to decide on dates. Lordganon 09:37, September 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. I have had a lot on my plate, I haven't had enough time to change it on the main articles. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 14:05, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

I understand that. Would it be possible for you to give us a year for these, when they would be landing, or when the first colony would be founded? Lordganon 21:54, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

A Picture
After a lot of work, the Ishtar article is finally nearing completion, however, I need a city picture decent for Venus as I can't find one. :D Imperium Guy 21:09, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow! I love how it is turning out. I especially love the alien watermelons (wonderful touch). Are you seriously only going to have the FSI have only two "governorates" (copy and pasting? XD). As for a picture of a city, I just looked around Google for something that fits the bill (a city that resembles the one you are looking for). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:30, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Copy and pasting, aemm... yeah! XD. Couldn't find the picture of the city. By the way, would NK still be the largest country on the planet with Ishtar on the scene now? :D Imperium Guy 12:08, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Fibikuo
A proposal article by me. Under construction... 9 もりや すわこ 21:49, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Very well done. Glad to see Fibikuo come to life ^_^ --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 18:26, September 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Though, as a suggestion, can the colony can be called Saigyō-koku (西行国), named after, one of the famous Japanese poets? Or maybe something else... or, If not, then I'll let the colony's name be. 9 もりや すわこ 17:01, September 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer Fibikuo. After Phoebe Regio. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:52, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

Buffalo
My little Western Canadian project. Lordganon 10:34, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

United Nations of Venus
Something to keep all new countries in check. Imperium Guy 17:51, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I am putting VH on a hiatus
I am feeling completely left out of my own timeline, as other users go ahead and appear to be taking over. I know this is not the case, but I am greatly fearing that I am loosing tract of my very own timeline. This needs to stop right here and now.

As of today, I am putting this timeline on a hiatus. For a month, I am going to be blocking all existing articles of the timeline off to new edits. All proposed pages are hereby canonized, while any new pages proposed during this hiatus will be deleted. During this hiatus, I would like to get this timeline organized by myself, understanding the new changes, and helping myself to understand them. I will post any of my ideas here before I make articles or change it.

Please respect my wishes. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 19:19, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Understood, loud and clear. Imperium Guy 20:35, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Renewing the hiatus
After weeks of debating myself, I have decided to renew this hiatus.

I have been debating on whether to remove this timeline, but I feel this would not be favored by many. Plus the fact that I love the timeline, I am just not fond of others taking over it. I would prefer that I have expanded the timeline enough that my voice and the majority of my ideas are in place to help balance out any newer ones. But since I am preoccupied with my other timelines at the moment (plus life and all), I have decided to continue the hiatus, and I will not remove it until I feel it to be ready. I will not be locking the articles (as I did last time). For all who have worked on this timeline, I am allowing you to continue work on your nation articles. Only the nations, not the "United Nations of Venus" or any supranational organizations. As before, all new proposals will be deleted, and any unauthorized edits will be reverted.

I am sorry for those who think I am acting dictatorial or anything of that nature. But this timeline is my creation, and I detest the though of this becoming another one of my timelines to devolve from what I have originally intended. As before, I insist that you respect my wishes. Peace and love. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:04, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Venus and Scientology
I doubt that a Scientology State would exist on Venus because of the religious significance of Venus in Scientology. According to L Ron Hubbard, when a man dies his soul goes to Venus where his memories are wiped before it is reincarnated on earth. Because of Venus’ purpose as a soul processing center, Hubbard would probably be against colonizing Venus. I can picture Hubbard telling his follower that the Venusians would blow up the Earth if we ever tried to colonize Venus. -- 108.213.148.220


 * I came across the same thing a while ago, but I am not an expert on the matter. My idea for a Scientology state came before I ready anything about the religion. I also got the idea from Tom Cruise promoting the creation of a colony on the Moon (or was that a joke). Either way, I am not too sure what to do. I see nothing wrong in getting rid of the colony (at least for Scientologists). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:22, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hubbard, by the time it could have been established, would be long dead. If anything, Venus would cause them to go there in order to have their beliefs fulfilled faster. Heck, you could also call it a place of their own, or even a major schism in that cult. Lordganon 10:05, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

News Headlines
Having NK complete its nuke reactor would be a good one, lol!! :D Imperium Guy 22:01, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Future of the timeline
Greetings to everybody who is keeping in touch with Venusian Haven. Seeing as how me making edits to my sandbox has made many question what I am doing, allow me to clarify. Yes, I have been doing some thinking about the timeline. No, I am not reopening the timeline.

After watching a program about Venus lately (which ironically made mention of the debated theory which has inspired this timeline), it has inspired be to relook at the timeline. I have primarily been looking at the Earthly aspects, such as how a habitable Venus would affect the Space Race. I have uploaded an updated map of Venus, and I may redraw the borders (since I can now look at greater detail).

I will not be reopening the timeline, and it will remain closed for the foreseeable future. I will not be opening it until I feel I can explain many aspects of the timeline. Such as how the Space Race will affect the technological advancement of the Human race. How fast the colonization of Venus would have taken place by today. How many colonies (or regions) would there be on Venus, including how open many nations would be towards their neighbors (such as which nations and powers would be able to colonize Venus directly). I would also like to do more cleaning.

Currently, Venus seems to be too colonized, too quickly. I also would like to relook In fact, I am so confused, I have been debating whether or not to completely restart the timeline from scratch. But I have chose not to do this because of all the hard work that has already been put into this. So please sit tight until I work this out. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 16:28, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well, no matter what you do, I do look forward to the result. Has always been, and will continue to be, a great timeline. Lordganon 22:27, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

The Timeline Is Now Officially Reopen
After two years, one month, and 20 days; I'm happy to announce that the Venusian Haven timeline is no longer on hiatus and will be reopen to outside help. But to prevent future mishaps, I have (already) written to help new users out, and a set of rules which must be followed.

The one BIG rule will be that no new country or settlement proposals will be accepted, and that any such proposals will be removed and will not be discussed. So just don't bother as of now, though I may reopen these kinds of suggestions in the future. What I think I'll do is (to compensate) open up already existing nation and settlement articles to co-editing (in which users may expand upon, but I'll have final say on whether these expansions become canon or not).

All other kinds of articles (from Venusian lifeforms to any miscellaneous ideas) will be open for discussion as of today. All users who've waited patiently to continue their articles now may do so. I do hope this timeline will pick up where it started, and look forward to any new ideas which this community can bring up. Good luck to everybody, and please have fun. -- 22:34, December 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Would it be alright if I focused more on the Earth parts of the timeline? (ie, alternate wars and whatnot.)


 * 22:35, December 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to see you are interested in the timeline. However, I personally doubt there would be any alternate wars ATL. All I can say for sure is that the would likely not happen. I'd also like this timeline to focus more on Venus, with Earth not being too different (with the exception of a few things such as the USSR still existing and more space nations). What specific ideas did you have in mind? -- 22:46, December 2, 2013 (UTC)