Talk:Romae Delenda Est (Map Game)

Talk
This is the Talk Page. Your War Declarations, major issues that are too big to be discussed on the game page, and Alogorithms go here. Please make a new Header for each new topic.

War

 * You may declare a war on any country on your turn
 * You may have any NPC declare war on you as long as it is plausible
 * Use the appropriate algorithms for all attacks
 * Each enemy encounter is a single battle
 * Keep in mind that it may take several battles to crush your enemies.
 * Upon entering enemy territory remember that after pushing back enemy forces, you must allot time to occupation. Keep in mind how big an area might be, and how many soldiers you have to enter the countryside. Also keep in mind where they are getting their supplies. If a clear stockpile or route for supplies isn’t available, your forces may have to pillage the local villages or face death from attrition. Once an area is occupied, you do not own it. It is still the defender’s land, but you are currently controlling it. Annexation of enemy’s land is later agreed upon in the peace treaty.
 * This algorithm must be used for any war/battle/conflict involving a player. This includes player-versus-player wars and player-versus-NPC wars. Moderators will post these algorithms. These algorithms are final. Disregarding the outcome of the algorithm will result in a ban!
 * All nations are encourage to think tactically and develop actual plans for invasions/battles. By publishing a description of your actions (or making a page documenting your pre-battle maneuvers) you will be more likely to succeed.

Declaration
Use the following algorithm to determine if your stability drops when declaring war. Add up the number at the end, and that is how many points you lose (negative does nothing). Note if you fail to reach one of your objectives then your stability drops by two.

The causi belli "faked terrorist attack" includes any events that you created in your turn. Faked terrorist attacks must be used cautiously. Every time they are used there is a small chance that the public will uncover the true, which can have negative consequences.

Causi Belli

 * Unjustly attacked (-5)
 * Terrorist attack (-3)
 * Attacked ally (-2)
 * Faked Terrorist Attack (-1)
 * Political blunder (-1)
 * None (+3)

Objective
Acquire Core Wish to annex a province/state that is our rightful land.

(-2)

Annex Territory Wish to annex a province/state.

(+3)

Add to Sphere We wish to forcefully establish this state under our sphere of influence, establishing a puppet state.

(+2) Assert Hegemony Forcefully take back state(s) that are culturally similar to ours from another great power's sphere of influence.

(+1) Civil War Take back land that has been claimed by rebels.

(0)

Conquest We wish to forcefully annex this smaller state

(+4)

Containment We believe this state is becoming too powerful and must be contained.

(+1)

If in a coalition of three or more nations: (0) Cut Down to Size We wish to partially remove this nation's military so they are no longer a threat.

(+2)

Demand Concession We demand this state cede one of their colonies to us.

(+3)

Establish Protectorate We wish to establish this state as a protectorate.

(+2) Free People We wish to liberate provinces that have been wrongfully occupied or annexed, and give them back to their rightful owners.

(-1) Humiliate We wish to lower this nation's prestige and political standing.

(+3) Release Puppet We demand that this state release other nations that they have forced into becoming a puppet.

(+1) Restore Order Used to annex a nation that is comprised completely of our core states. We believe every one of its provinces belong to us.

(0) War of Unification We are annexing states that are culturally part of a greater nation.

(0) No Objective We don't even know why we're here, we're just mad.

(+4) Modifiers Pacifist government: (+2)

Religious motive: (-2)

Breaking treaty: (+3)

Frequent Enemy: (-1)

Total Add up your score from all of the declarations and objectives. If your number is positive, subtract that number from your stability. If it is zero, or negative, nothing happens.

When declaring war it is encouraged to write your declaration on the talk page, so you can specify your objectives.

Algorithm
Location Location goes by capital city.
 * at the location of the war: 5
 * next to the location of the war: 4
 * close to the location of the war: 3
 * far from location of the war: 2
 * other side of the world: 1
 * Antarctica: 0

Tactical Advantage Defender: Attacker:
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1
 * High ground/ambush: 2
 * Tribal Ambush/Unconvential Warfare (Only works for Tribes against higher tiered civilizations): 2
 * Defending across a the river: 3
 * Basic earthworks, makeshift defenses, ruins: 3
 * Fortifications, Dug in defenses: 4
 * High-security fortress: 5


 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1
 * High ground/ambush: 2
 * Attacking across a river: - 2

A country receives high ground/ambush if:

1)The battle location, or area where the army in question is located has a high topographic prominence, meaning it is surrounded by areas of significantly lower elevation. Even plateaus count, but it must be so that the enemy has to climb the mountain to capture the location.

2) The defenders are meeting a force invading from the coast. This means in all invasions involving crossing water in boats/ships and meeting an enemy immediately at the beach starts at this level.

Nations Per Side on the War
 * M for military aid (+3), S for supplies (+2), V for vassalization or subordination (-1) and then W for withdrawal (-1). So a list of belligerents read like China (L), Zhuang Warlords (MVW), Japan (M), Korea (MW), Hawaiian rebels (MV), Mali (SW), creating a score of 13

Military Development Expansion
 * Your current army score * 10
 * If you are defending, your Economic score is also included, multiplied by 4
 * If the battle is near water, and you have a navy stationed nearby then your naval score is also included, multiplied by 3
 * expansion: -1 for every turn used for expansion in the past 5 years

Motive
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * motive is religious: 7
 * motive is social or moral: 6
 * motive is political: 5
 * motive is economic: 3

If there are multiple motives, the one told to the army will be selected.

Nation Tiers:

Depending on the Nation Tier or obvious Exceptions such a a Tribal Nation trading with a Iron age nation(hence Aquiring the weapons) points will be given.

1 tier above = +5

2 Tiers = +10

etc etc etc.

If a Tribal nation however is Trading with Iron age nations this may in fact be nullified if the nation has acquired these weapons/Armors through trade,Raiding or the like

Chance 0 to 9 points will be awarded to each person based on chance. The Chance will be decided by a Random Number Generator of 1-10. Stability
 * Your current stability divided by two

Participation All nations get a +10 on this Number of Troops
 * Friendly soldiers / Enemy soldiers

Discussion before start
G greg e (talk)
 * 1) Expansion should be based on expansion location to prevent expansion in mutliple locations. ex: Germany invades Poland and France in one turn and should be charged TWO expansion points for the multiple fronts and thus double supply lines.
 * 2) The current expansion we have is better based on war weariness. And if you want this portion to remain should be renamed as such.
 * 3) Expansion should not expire in 5 years....probably more likely a certian number of turns (thus as we progress, expansion would go away quicker in "real time"). Also expansion would say only clear out the one event from x years ago, but not clear out the close y year event from the algo (ie"  A War in 1996 would be cleared in 2006, but not the war in 2002) For now i propose 15 turns as this will limit unnatural expansion.

That is hardly fair. It should be based on what you would be taking over. The Aborigines are expanding over the desert, without a local populace to subdugate, similar for those of us in the Americas, or the Maori, whilst in Europe, you have to deal with locals. Mafia (talk)

The Aborigines are expanding over desert without a local population. They are expanding over desert! No water, no food, no materials for homes, no large-scale agriculture tradition, and in the most dangerous continent will hurt expansion. In the Americas, you have a near-impossible attempt to utilize natural resources. Gold is used for jewelry, and copper and silver have yet to be discovered in Mesoamerica. The Americans have a hard time expanding because do you know how hard it is to clear a forest with stone tools and then build a city? And then you must have a population to be able to populate that city. And to populate that city, you need agriculture to feed those people. That agriculture in large enough scale to feed a large population was entirely non-existent in North America for many centuries, it was getting it's start in Mesoamerica and South America, but it still took them decades and decades to grow enough to have a reason to expand. And the growth they had was hindered by tribal wars, and sacrifice. Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 15:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

I wonder, can you force a conquered country's native people to pay tribute? VX

You can, but it will increase their likelyness to revolt, and the higher the tribute, the more likely they will revolt and resist Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 21:58, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

They are the Aborigines, they have lived in Australia for 1000s of years, they will know how to travel over the Desert, and yes, I do know how hard that is, but fighting locals every step of the way is harder Mafia (talk)

New Game = New Changes
So far, I am really liking the idea, and the boldness/audacity of this game. I do feel a few things might need addressing.
 * The Map is too small, and shows tiny little borders within countries. I reccommend this map (http://wiki.alternatehistory.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/resources/uberbam_rivers_noborders.png). It shows rivers, which are 100% vital to early civilizations.
 * Use BC, not BCE. BCE is a stupid secularization that attempts to undo all of our Classical Western Culture. The French under Robespierre tried the same thing..
 * Post mod events about the whole region. More is going on in Europe than just Rome. Rome is just one nation out of many in Europe.
 * Thanks,  Reximus   Maximus  18:41, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Battle for the Pict-Brython Borderland
Objective:  Unifcation, greater cultural union, Goidelic Celtic.

 Brython Coalition 
 * Location: 4
 * Next to the location of the war
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Ambush
 * Nations Per Side: 5
 * Welsh Brython (L), Aoengic Ireland (MS)
 * Military Development (Tech): 5
 * Army Score: .5 x 10
 * Economic Score: Attacker
 * Naval Score: NA
 * Expansion: NA
 * Expansion areas (none)
 * Motive: 5
 * Motive is Political
 * Nation Tiers: +2
 * Brython  = to Picts
 * Aoengic = to Picts + receiving Weapons from Carthage (+2)
 * Chance: 5
 * Mod RNG (1-10):
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops 3.1 (15.5/5)
 * 10,000 Welsh, 5,500 Aoengic
 * 5,000 Picts
 *  Total:   66.1

 Picts 

Pending Mod RNGS and mod signoff.
 * Location: 4
 * Next to the location of the war
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Open Fields
 * Nations Per Side: 0
 * Picts (L)
 * Military Development (Tech): 9.5
 * Army Score: .75 x 10
 * Economic Score: .5 x 4
 * Naval Score: NA
 * Expansion: NA
 * Expansion areas (none)
 * Motive: 5
 * Motive is Political
 * Nation Tiers: +0
 * Brython  = to Picts
 * Aoengic = to Picts + receiving Weapons from Carthage (+2)
 * Chance: 7
 * Mod RNG (1-10):
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: .32 (5/15.5)
 * 10,000 Welsh, 5,500 Aoengic
 * 5,000 Picts
 *  Total:   62.82

 Result:   The

Macedonian war on Appollonia
'Macedonian Confederacy:'


 * Location


 * Location goes by capital city.
 * at the location of the war: 5


 * Tactical Advantage

Attacker:


 * Seige Equipment: 5 (takes two turns to build outside of a city. the only exception is Catapults)

Military Development:


 * Your current army score * 10= 17.5

Expansion:


 * NA

Motive:


 * motive is social or moral: 6 (greco, macedonian unification)

If there are multiple motives, the one told to the army will be selected.


 * Nation Tiers: N/A


 * Chance:  RNG (1-10) 2 g greg e   (talk)  05:27, August 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Stability: +23.5


 * Participation  +10

Total: 71 with chance
 * 30,000 / 15,000= 2

Appollonia: 

Location Location goes by capital city.
 * at the location of the war: 5

Tactical Advantage Defender:
 * No defenses, open field, etc: 1

Military Development Expansion Motive Nation Tiers:
 * Your current army score * 10 = +10
 * If you are defending, your Economic score is also included, multiplied by 4 = +4
 * expansion: N/A
 * motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * N/A

Chance
 * RNG (1-10) 4  g greg e  (talk)  05:27, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Participation All nations get a +10 on this Number of Troops Total: 59 with Chance
 * 25
 * Soldiers:=0

Result: The Appollonian Army has been Defeated handily by the Macedonian Confederacy and is forced to fight from its city with the remaining 10,000 of its soldiers.

Carthage:

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage (Attacker): 5 (Siege Equipment)
 * Nations per Side: 4
 * Numidia (MSV)
 * Military Development: 15
 * Army Score: 15
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Nation Tiers: 10
 * Chance:
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Soldiers: 4.0
 * 40,750 / 10,000
 * Total: 80 (Without chance)

Hispania Tribes:

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage (Defender): 5
 * Nations per Side: 2
 * Cispaline Gaul (S)
 * Military Development: 15
 * Army Score: 10
 * Economy: 5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Soldiers: 0.2
 * 10,000 / 40,750
 * Total: 72.2  (Without chance)

Carthage:

 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage (Attacker): 5 (Siege Equipment)
 * Nations per Side: 4
 * Numidia (MSV)
 * Military Development: 15
 * Army Score: 15
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Nation Tiers: 10
 * Chance:
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Soldiers: 4.0
 * 38,750 / 10,000
 * Total: 80 (Without chance)

Hispania Tribes:

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage (Defender): 5
 * Nations per Side: 2
 * Cispaline Gaul (S)
 * Military Development: 15
 * Army Score: 10
 * Economy: 5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Stability: 25
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Soldiers: 0.2
 * 10,000 / 38,750
 * Total: 72.2  (Without chance)