Talk:Provisional Indiana (1983: Doomsday)

Guys remember the. All new articles must be marked with the proposal template. Mitro 12:03, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-Doomsday
This section has a lot of issues. First, Dan Quayle wasn't VP until 1989, six years after Doomsday. Second, I can't find any information that even hints that he said such a thing to Orr. The whole section contradicts the already established POD of the TL and really needs to be removed or revised. Mitro 12:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see you removed the references to Quayle, but the stuff on Orr is still an issue. You seem to suggest he knew Doomsday was coming and he planned for it. Again this is unlikely and I have not found anything to suggest that Orr was preparing for a nuclear war OTL. If this is the case than this article contradicts the POD still. Mitro 18:27, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I fixed it and it seems that most of the state goes in chaos, and the attack would of also killed Orr and most of the Goverment. I'm sorry I dont understand this, "POD", what is that?

Perryz101 03:30, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * POD is short for "point of divergence". Its the point where all history as we know it changes, in this case there is a nuclear war on September 26, 1983. That being said, everything before that point has to happen exactly as it did in our history. Mitro 03:35, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Indiana (1983: Doomsday)
Hi, Perryz. I suggest that you read this article before doing anything else on this new republic. This time line is a group effort, and we need to check what has been written about an area first before we jump into an article. The information so far is mostly based on this map, though exceptions have been made. Any utilization of Dan Quayle has to assume he was not in Washington DC or was one of those that escaped somehow. If he was with George Bush, for instance, he would have ended up in Australia! SouthWriter 05:24, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I understand Southwriter and I fixed my mistakes with Dan Quayle and Orr, Perryz101 20:45, April 22, 2010 (UTC)



I was also thinking of a new map, that alot of the cities might of lived, and could of maybe made contact by 2010,the cities of West Lafeyette, Lafeyette, Richmond,Kokomo,Frankfort, Muncie,Wabash,Marion,Warsaw,Logansport,Monticello,Delphi,Flora,Crawfordsville,Winchester,Portland,Rochester,Anderson and that Terre Haute with Brazil might of lived, but I am thinking about the Indiana National Guard, and the 181st Intel wing and that it could of been a target, Peru also could of been destroyed.Perryz101 21:16, April 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Rep_of_Indiana_damage.png, again, Perry. You have done some great homework! Your list of towns (looking to be county seats, it seems) is fabulous. However, I looked up their locations on Google Earth and produced the map to the left based on the FEMA map overlaid with your map. I added some counties, and noted the damage to some of the cities you suppose could have survived. Of the ones listed, only Kokomo looks to have taken a direct hit (if we go by the FEMA map). I am not sure about what the map makers were thinking with an off center hit with Terre Haut, but the way they made the map, the southwestern part of the city is in the 50% damage (orange) ring. However the center of the blast seems to have been in the northeastern quarter, putting Brazil inside of the 25% ring. Therefore, I'd say Terre Haut was 75%-80% destroyed.


 * The other cities your mentioned are marked without comment. A good spread across the state!


 * I was not criticizing on Dan Quayle, by the way, but commenting that as a prominent Indianian he might be useful in the development of this republic -- IF he survived. SouthWriter 16:57, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

I really like the map you gave me, and the the nuclear strikes look good, and the counties also do too, but I think we should talk a little more about Dan Quayle and Terre Haute/Brazil and hold off until we can prove that it wasn't a direct hit and that Dan Quayle lived.

The matter of getting fuel to the people is large, and if we could get Trenton Gas Field, located in easten-central Indiana it would mean fuel to the people, Power is provided by wind mills, with about 531 wind towers. Perryz101 19:41, April 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * [I changed the format on your reply to more easily repond.]


 * The creators of this timeline left things unclear about who escaped Washington, DC. There was at most two hours warning before most communications were wiped out and the bombs started exploding. Reagan and Bush escaped from the two most bombed cities in the world (logistics of it were left unexplained), and Bush ended up in the bunker meant for the Congress (who apparently didn't make it there). Nothing is said about choice Senators and/or Representatives meeting Bush at the bunker. Apparently no bunker inside the beltway would have been safe enough, so anyone who escaped had to have found deep shelter within an hour's drive of the capitol. Dan Quayle may not have been in Washington that weekend, so some investigation would be need to find this out.


 * It doesn't matter too much about Terre Haute, unless you want to spare it totally. The FEMA maps are just a guide anyway. The Indiana page doesn't even list Indianapolis, but the capitol would be an obvious target (FEMA has three or four blasts over the city!).


 * I checked to see what I could find on the Trenton Gas Field. It seems that there is a lot of oil there, but since the natural gas was depleted so quickly from the 1880's to about 1910, there is no easy way to get the oil out of the ground. Usually, the natural gas is used to push the oil up from underneath, so it might take as much energy to pull it out of the ground as it would provide in petrolium products. Perhaps the windmills could be used to pump oil. Then, there would be the problem of refining the oil. Natural gas needs very little treatment to be used. But crude oil is almost useless! SouthWriter 05:09, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Back to the map. Kokomo has to go, the hit upon it is almost direct. Nearby Peru would have survived a direct hit, but would have been abandoned due to it's closeness to the blast and immediate fallout. You need to remove Kokomo from the list of "other cities." SouthWriter 15:07, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Alright,I'm thinking that Terre Haute is got to go due to the Intel and Newport Chemical Depot.


 * Well, Terre Haute does seem to be a target in the 1999 maps. However, was Intel even in Indiana in 1983? They had been in buisiness for over a decade, but they did not really get to be so influencial until they, like Microsoft, made a deal with IBM and brought "PC's" into just about every home in America. And that was after 1983. I agree with NCD, that is the explosion above Terre Haute on the map. SouthWriter 15:41, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Indiana National Guard had a 181st Tactical Fighter Group (1962–1992) and it says it also had fighters they're too.Perryz101 16:08, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Potential
Though I agree further research is needed, I think the idea has potential. Indiana has a smaller population than most of the rust belt, and a more spread out one. I wouldn't be surprised to see enough infrastructure and agricultural base, along with a core of National Guard or regular Army forces, in existence following Doomsday to hammer together a regional republic in a ring around the Indianapolis and central IN strikes, more or less. Possibility of some kind of association with Superior and later function as a bridge between Superior and Kentucky/Virginia when contact is reestablished, maybe.--Loughery111 16:07, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's poorly developed as is, but with some development could easily become a very viable proposal. I honestly don't see any "Republic" encompassing the entire state but several small-to-medium city states within its borders as of TTL 2010; that was my idea when I wrote the Indiana 1983: Doomsday article. I also wrote that as a jumping off point for other editors, so just as I told Loughery that my South Bend-is-abandoned blurb is not written in stone, neither is it written in stone that there is no "Republic of Indiana". If you can make it plausible, then it should be given strong consideration for canonization. Best of luck to you!BrianD 17:53, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Government
First, why change from the established and familiar representative democracy, headed by a single person (a proven formula in times of crisis where a quick decision is often needed)? It is not clear why this republic has changed so drastically. Is this because the counties have developed their own systems and do not wish to work as one - thus a "confederation" among them is needed instead? [By the way, "county" and "canton" are virtually the same thing, sort of like "Republic" and "Commonwealth" - different original languages, but same meaning.]

Second, when bouncing between the known (republican) and the hypothetical, you seem to be mixing terms. A Chancellor becomes a President a paragraph later, for instance. If you are going to use the newmodel, use the terms consistently. SouthWriter 16:53, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

The counties did have they're own systems, and then joined together and liked the Swiss ran they're nation so they basicly just copyed, the President and Chancellor are very diffrent Lucas Alexander Schad is the President and the Chancellor is being voted on.Perryz101 19:21, April 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * And so, what we have here is the several counties (ten presently, as I understand you line up) send two delegates each to the capital, and the national council has 100 members drawn at large based on population. This corresponds with OTL Senate and House of Representatives. It then is up to these two bodies to chose the Federal Council (I would suppose from among themselves) which corresponds to our President, Vice President and cabinet. I took the liberty of looking up "Chancellor" in wikipedia::


 * "In Switzerland, the Federal Chancellor (Bundeskanzler, Chancelier fédéral, Cancelliere della Confederazione) is elected by the Swiss parliament. He or she heads the Federal Chancellery, the general staff of the seven-member executive Federal Council, the Swiss government. The Chancellor participates in the meetings of the seven Federal Councilors with a consultative vote and prepares the reports on policy and activities of the council to parliament. The chancellery is responsible for the publication of all federal laws." 'Chancellor - Wikipedia'


 * So, in Switzerland, the chancellor is at the same time "moderator" of the meeting, and "secretary" of the group of seven. This title, then, would take the role of the President in cabinet meetings, and afterwards the role of the federal printing office in getting the laws decided in council to the courts and law enforcement agencies. This whole system is far from a "direct democracy." I find it hard to imagine a population of struggling counties deciding to do away with the representative government they had lived with since statehood for a foreign system such as this. It may seem quaint and "neat" to you, but it seems rather unnatural for a bunch of farmers in the midwest to decide to do when they "start over." SouthWriter 20:20, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Mhm...I can see what your coming from, but these arnt just "A bunch of Farmers", clearly thats what its too you, to me its my fellow hoosiers, I will consider to turn it into a republic.Perryz101 20:44, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Nation Infobox
Everytime I try to improve your nation infobox, your next revision changes it back. I use the source code to change it the appearance so that it reads something like this:

Republic of Indiana

Timeline: 1983: Doomsday

_______ _________


 * ______| |________|

flag of Ind CoA of Ind

Instead of the awkward

Republic of Indiana (1983:

Doomsday)

_______ _________


 * ______| |________|

flag of RoI CoA of RoI

(1983:DD) (1983:DD)

All I am doing is trying to make your infobox conform to the others. Are you switching it back, or is it the templte reverting on its own?

[It actually took me longer to make those facsimles than to take a couple of screen shots! SouthWriter 22:22, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Nope, Ive havent done anything.