User talk:Mumby

Ogres not humans
Your "Ogres not humans" timeline has been nominated for deletion because it hardly contains any actual content, if you are still interested in writing this AltHist you are given four weeks time to let us know and to start writing on, otherwise it will be deleted.--Max Sinister 02:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Neo-Britain
Do you want me to delete the page Neo-Britain, since you deleted all the content already?--Max Sinister 21:13, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Your timelines
Do they belong together? Edward VII, Britannic Empire and the united kingdoms? If yes, you should give them better titles, in the form of "name of page (name of TL)". Like most of the other pages on this site, you know. TIA.--Max Sinister 12:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The Two Suns
Your "The Two Suns" timeline has been nominated for deletion because it hardly contains any actual content, if you are still interested in writing this AltHist you are given four weeks time to let us know and to start writing on, otherwise it will be deleted.--Max Sinister 15:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Doomsday
A warm and very belated welcome to the group! Please don't delete other people's work without discussing it first, as you seem to have done with the Falklands. I'm glad, though, that you seem to be working on harmonizing the Rhodesia and Celtic Alliance material. Benkarnell 19:22, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that's another very cool flag. Both that and the sideways-Y. But does Rhodesia actually cover the territory of the OFS? It seemed to be centered in the Natal region, but I could be wrong. Looking around, Natal never had a flag of its own, but in the early 20th century apparently had a badge or coat of arms featuring two running wildebeest.


 * On a related note. There's very little written so far about the people already living in the Rhodesia region. The nation's Afrikaaner ruling class must surely be upset about a bunch of Brits transplanting themselves and declaring a new country. I suppose that's the war with Cape Town mentioned, but what about those living in Rhodesia?


 * More importantly, what about hte millions and millions of "Coloureds" and Blacks in the region? The conflict between Rhodesia and Cape Town suggests that the British may have repealed apartheid. But there is nothing about any Black or Coloured leaders of this undoubtedly White, British nation. Has apartheid been kept to some extent? Have the nonwhites been politely asked to go now? I'm not opposed to a state that is "evil" by any means, if that's what you're going for - it's highly likely, as a matter of fact, in a post-Doomsday scenario. But I'd like to know the details. Benkarnell 19:38, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, never mind - I had never noticed your updates to the South Africa article. So the story goes: under the stress of Doomsday, apartheid actually fell apart. Good thing! Benkarnell 20:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Interesting: your flag was apparently suggested back in 1927. Maybe the Rhodesians dug the idea up and used it?

Continuity
While reading the timeline, I found peviously written events that do in fact conflict with what you've written
 * 1985: Sub-Saharan Africa is worse. The loss of American, European and Soviet aid has plunged most of the African nations into chaos and starvation. The economy of the Union of South Africa collapses, even under martial law, rioting runs rampant as it becomes apparent that the white minority is shunting food and fuel rations to primarily whites, while black South Africans starve. When guards abandon the Robben Island prison, members of the ANC rescue (August 17th) Nelson Mandela, but the joy is short-lived as Mandela dies in a bombing raid by the South African Air Force on a Pretorian black neighbourhood.
 * 1985: Sub-Saharan Africa is worse. The loss of American, European and Soviet aid has plunged most of the African nations into chaos and starvation. The economy of the Union of South Africa collapses, even under martial law, rioting runs rampant as it becomes apparent that the white minority is shunting food and fuel rations to primarily whites, while black South Africans starve. When guards abandon the Robben Island prison, members of the ANC rescue (August 17th) Nelson Mandela, but the joy is short-lived as Mandela dies in a bombing raid by the South African Air Force on a Pretorian black neighbourhood.


 * 2006: A RZA Provisional Government is set up but is merely able to secure a small region around Capetown with the support of a small joint SAC-ANZ Garrison - the first multilateral peacekeeping mission since doomsday. Everything north of the city is de facto lawless warlord-ruled territory.

To harmonize the two versions: maybe the multi-ethnic South Africa is smaller than you had in mind, and centered maybe on Joburg. The European rescue missions could still have happened, but then fell apart in 1985. Botha's new Joburg-centered union could come into being a tad later, say 1987-88, and Rhodesia could then decline an invitation to join. All this time, the Cape Province region remained a lawless wasteland, and the SAC/ANZ could still send a mission to Cape Town in 2006. That would mean that Rhodesia attacked the Transvaal region, plus Botswana and Mozambique, which could make sense. Cape Town would still be under the Provisional Government. Benkarnell 03:53, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've made some suggestions at Talk:1983: Doomsday. XiReney's said that a few details will have to change. Check it out if you haven't yet. Benkarnell 04:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Can you please take a look at my latest post at Talk:1983: Doomsday? Benkarnell 19:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:Britannia
I like the idea of moving everything back a few years. But I don't think any sort of rescue from the UK to Africa is even remotely plausible. The Africans would be concerned about survival. Why would they spend some of their last resorces to rescue people from Britain? And why only Britain? Benkarnell

The British have a quite a significant chunk of cash to offer, being a First World country. Other countries in Africa seem to have transported large quantities of the populace of the nations who originally dominated them. Besides the Africans might not have spent any money. They might tell Britain. You can come but you have to pay. The RAF transports the vast majority of the populace of our green and pleasant land to the virgin lands of Africa. If you are still adamant about this where do you suggest the British are moved to. Or are they not moved at all. Either way there will be quite a lot of stuff to delete and I don't know how. Bob 14:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If I'm adamant, that's really not an issue, since this is a group project. I can live with something that doesn't make total sense to me, as long as there's consensus to keep it. There are a number of reasons why I think it's totally unrealistic:


 * No resources to do it - Britain doesn't have as much cash or military equipment as you think, since most of the people are dead and the institutions destroyed
 * Very little incentive to do it - The only possible reason for such an undertaking would be Anglo-South Africans who feel pangs of loyalty to the mother country. But the British were/are a minority in S. Africa, and even during the apartheid government, the lion's share of political power was held by Afrikaaner nationalists who probably couldn't give a damn about evacuating an island thousands of miles away.
 * No communication - how would the British survivors have contacted the South Africans about such a project, given the total breakdown of global communications? Why would they think to contact SOuth Africa in the first place? This is the 80s - there were major political movements throughout the West dedicated solely to hating the South African government and apartheid. If British people are going to flee anywhere, it will be to Ireland, and it will not be in the kinds of numbers you're talking about.
 * No precedent - the TL does not have examples of large populations fleeing to Africa. If you're thinking of Spain and Portugal, those are small governments-in-exile claiming to be the successors of the bombed-out countries. No massive population transfers. The UK already has such a gov-in-exile - in Ireland.
 * Look, I'm really sorry that you've put som uch work into this, but others and I have been saying these kinds of things for months, and gotten very little direct response fomr you, and very little willingness to be flexible. Benkarnell 14:36, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * [EDIT] OK, that was a bit harsh. Here's what I probably meant to say. The kernel of your idea is probably plausible: a band of British people that sets out for South Africa and establishes a new state there. It's just that all your ideas have been implausibly "big" so far. Such a group would have to be small. They could have a compelling story of how they travelled thousands of miles down the African coast, bravely battling the elements and brigands, only to arrive at this new shore to found a new nation based on the ideals of their homeland. That's not bad! But it would be a small undertaking, certainly - a few thousand people on Navy ships and fishing boats, that's all I could see happening. And they'd have to do it on their own, since neither of the relevat governments would be willing or able to sponsor such a project. Benkarnell

Survivor Kingdom of Great Britain
I've had a new idea. In case of a nuclear war, Britain had a plan to build a National Network of tunnels connecting the cities and large towns of Britain. It gives a kind of adventurer or World War Two mentality. The stoic rmnants of humanity in Britain holding out underground, growing food by special lights, playiong cricket in vast underground cities. Its much more interesting than the whole Africa thing. They wouldn't disturb the Celtic Alliance or the Kingdom of Cleveland either. They would exist underneath the Celtic Alliance and Yorkshire didn't pose much of a military threat to the Russians so they didn't target it. Bob 14:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's an idea. It's a cool one, actually. Now, if you don't want to totally delete everything, some of it can still be adapted. I liked the idea of Rhodesia as an evil white kingdom - sans the British refugee element. Benkarnell 01:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

That would make for some really interesting books of nonfiction and realistic fiction. Who knows, maybe the idea of a fictionalized version of an underground Britain could fill the void of something like the Harry Potter series (no doubt JK Rowling is either a pile ash) Mr.Xeight 03:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with ben it would be an awsesome OTL Owen1983 17:47, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

New Britain collaboration
Bob, I appreciate you contacting me like this. I know we have had our disagreements in the past and that at times I could have been very rude, however, I hope you understand it was nothing personal. In such an atmosphere where people have their creative juices flowing the tempers can easily get out of control.

That being said I have always been supportive of an English successor state in South Africa, though I have disagreed about its scope. Though there is a significant minority of members who don’t think the article is plausible, I think it probably would not be difficult to graduate it to canon. I’d be glad to help, but due to summer school finals I’m going to be limited in the amount of work I can put in, at least until after August 3rd.

If you don’t mind I have some ideas for the British Survivors Administration (1983: Doomsday) article that I would like to start on first. Is that alright? Mitro 20:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thats perfectly fine. I also understand why you can get a bit incensed with me. I can be full of zeal for my nation. However there is an interesting program about penicilluin on the tellybox right now. Good old BBC! Bob 20:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have done work on the British Survivors Administration (1983: Doomsday). Mitro 15:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The BSA page is brilliant!! This bodes well for anything else we do together! Bob 18:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think we first need to start from the beginning. We can list what was hit, how did the government reorganize itself, what did they do at first to ensure survival, what was Prince Andrew doing during this time, etc. The whole migration is what most dissenters have a problem with. If we can show in good detail how it could have been possible then they may be more accepting of the article. Also we need to work in links and content for the BSA and the Antarctic territories. Not a lot but right now they are orphans. Mitro 18:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten my promise to work on getting New Britain graduated. Just been taking care of some stuff here at home. Mitro 01:17, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I made my rough draft of, check it out and see if you like it. Mitro 02:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Raleizia & Rhodesia
First off, I'm so happy that we've turned New Britain into something we can work with. Now, you blanked the old Raleizia page. Would you like me to archive it as "Obsolete", or simply delete it? The same goes for Rhodesia, actually. Benkarnell 18:51, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

There is more detail on the Rhodesia page, that might actually be useful to look at. We could try and get some info from that. Raleizia is much less good. Just delete it. Bob 09:25, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

War in Canada
The important question is: what do they gain? It will cost New Britain millions (if not billions) of dollars to train, supply and transport soldiers and materials to the other pole of the world to fight in a war against a tiny, landlocked unrecognized state whose leader was assassinated by a Canadian citizen. Furthermore, New Britain up to this point has had nothing to do with Saguenay, good or ill. Seems odd they would immediately jump to declare war on them just because they have good relations with the other guy.

Sure Canada would be grateful for the assistance, but all of what I stated above sounds like the ingredients for an incredibly unpopular war back home. Does Canada need New Britain’s help? They already have the, which has a greater stake in the region then New Britain would.

Plus sending troops means New Britain will be slightly weaker when it comes to protecting their borders from their own hostile nations. With New Britain busy up north, what stops them from launching their own attacks?

It’s important to remember that New Britain is not the pre-Doomsday Great Britain. They do not have the capabilities to make their presence felt around the world. They are a regional power confined to southern Africa. They may have a larger then usual navy for their size thanks to the remnants of the Royal Navy, but they just lack the capabilities to get involved in conflicts around the globe. Mitro 17:22, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

KwaXhosa
In order to finally get the KwaXhosa article graduated, I made some changes to the KwaXhosa article. I got rid of the mention of it being a failed state, made sure the article conformed to the history of New Britain, made mention of peacekeepers from the Anzanian League, and added a few small details of my own. What do you think? Mitro 03:33, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

had suggested NB gets a new flag if you agree we can put a vote up and the best design wins Owen1983 17:54, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Okey doke. Bob 17:58, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Bourne
What sort of military does Bourne have??

As Britain isn't as gun-crazy as the US weapons and the suchlike would be in short supply unless there was some sort of military base in the area. TBH that's the reason I chose Woodbridge as my starting point. Originally my survivor nation was based about Mildenhall and Lakenheath but then it was brought to my attention that they were bomber bases and may well have been targeted on Doomsday Verence71 19:45, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

King Andrew and Fiji in 1983DD
How much has Prince/King Andrew traveled since becoming king of New Britain? When I put together the Current Monarchs page I realized that Victoria still acknowledges the British Monarch as sovereign of their country. Has Andrew ever been to Victoria? Do you think they'd welcome him? Possibly not - I can imagine the Victorians dismissing his claims over some technicality in order to avoid getting tied to NB. I was starting to think about Fiji, though, where the British Crown is mostly important through its relationship to the chiefly hierarchy. HMtQ in real life is on Fiji's currency despite not being the official head of state - just the highest-ranking chief. I would think that the Fijians would be quite welcoming toward Andrew. He could visit if he was ever in Tonga to attend some kind of League of Nations function. Benkarnell 16:41, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Out of One, Many
You know I had great plans for this TL but I just let it slide into the background. I promise to take a look at your article when I get the chance. Mitro 19:36, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Your Offer
Mumby, I'm not sure if you noticed, but there really is no "Britain" per se in Toyotomi. There is a monarch that is head of government for a group of nations, but as for a Cairo-to-Cape or an empire on which the sun never sets is out of the question; I will not alter Christina's previous work, the new group is only fleshing out and adding. Now if you would like to take caretakership over each of the Commonwealth nations and provide maps, then I think I can speak for both Mrs. Christina and Mr. Daniel when I say we would love to have you. Mr.Xeight 00:58, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Toyotomi Edits
Are you only putting established history into these new pages you've created, or are you making your own? If you are doing the latter, please talk to Mr. Dan who can refer you to the creator. Her name is Mrs. Christina Nicole. Mr.Xeight 17:42, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Do you have permission to begin building up your own material? It's not mine to give, only Mr. Daniel and Mrs. Christina. Mr.Xeight 19:21, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Look, Bob, Mumby, whichever you prefer to be called, it's not in my power to say what can be added to Toyotomi and what cannot. Even if it was, I really don't know anything on Toyotomi's Britain other than it's fallen hard in the last 200 years, very hard. Mrs. Christina personally told me that this chapter (althistory.wikia.com) is finished in her life. If you want her blessing you're going to have to contact her at her email. I have if you want it. Mr. Dan has an online comic that's just been published he needs to worry about, he's immensely busy, but I can give you his email as well. I'm sorry but it was never my intention to take over Toyotomi, I am simply adding to the past so long as it doesn't contradict it, and adding to the present and future. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Mr.Xeight 22:30, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

You know, it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people do things on this wiki without asking. Before I accuse of you doing so, did you get permission to make all these pages and use a Quebecois flag for the Republic of Great Britain? Don't you think it'd be more polite if you were to reserve the more fun stuff (ie flag making), to the head of this AltHist, Mr. Dan? Mr.Xeight 02:39, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

King Andrew's Visit
Could I request that King Andrew visit Assiniboia after he is done in Victoria?

Yankovic270 19:48, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Dominion of Eduarda?
You made a mentioning of a nation on my timeline Great White South. I am quite interested to know a little more about it. Can you please give more description of it on the talk page? Thank you for your contribution. --NuclearVacuum 16:35, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also sorry. I had no idea that you made a comment about this on my talk page. There has been some editing war going on there and I am so confused with it. So please forgive me for not answering you sooner. --NuclearVacuum 18:11, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

AEC
Following a discussion on the talk page of Mitro sugested that Botswana joined New Britain's African Economic Comunity, I was wondering what your thoughts on this were.Vegas adict 19:20, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

King of the Yukon?
Well, if my Yukon page (or some version of it) does end up getting accepted, King Andrew is certainly welcome to visit Whitehorse. The Members of the Teritorial Assembly have been discussing His Majesty's role there for some time. Constitutionally, he's still the King, after all! Benkarnell 16:57, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Maps of post-Doomsday Britain
In principle they look very good but there is a slight problem with Woodbridge. On the map giving showing the situation as it is now you have Woodbridge situated in the district of Babergh whereas it actually consists of Suffolk Coastal and Waveney.

If you could get this sorted out would be so kind as to edit the Woodbridge infobox so it contains the map of the current British situation?? Thanks Verence71 09:23, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

I really like the maps too, however, the futurised one shows Essex expanding into Kent and across London. In fact there are no actual plans for this; Essex will be directing its efforts, at least in the near future, to solidifying control over Hertfordshire. There is also the thing that Essex's current control extends westward to the A10, so its currently displayed borders are somewhat in error; otherwise, the maps are fine (and quite professional-looking, in my opinion). Fegaxeyl 09:50, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you kindly :) Verence71 18:55, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Nice map
Welcome back ^_^

I just wanted to say I love the map you did for British colonialism. But I want to make a little note for you, is that I planned on dividing New Devon quite differently. So it might change soon, so just wanted to let you know. Otherwise, I love it. --NuclearVacuum 21:22, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

China in French Trafalgar, British Waterloo
Thank you for your feedback. I have to ask, though, what do you think should be the turning point in convincing China?

Organisation of British Nations
I've just typed up a quick intro for the OBN. I hope it fits with the general picture

BTW I've just had a word with Smoggy and they say that the chance are that Cleveland and Northumbria could well join but only as the result of referendums so perhaps the flag with 5 stars (presumably one each for Woodbridge, Essex, East Britain, Cleveland and Northumbria) is a bit presumptious for the moment Verence71 16:07, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

French Trafalgar, British Waterloo contribution question
I'm always looking forward to help in my timeline! I would greatly appreciate it, as I'm starting to head into territory I'm not even sure about yet, but I do have a rough idea how the 20th century will be; just need to get up there.

If you have any ideas on articles to write, or of a person that will fit in, or a complete overhaul of some parts, just let me know!

PS: thanks for the China suggestion. It makes so much more sense now that I added that.

Tbguy1992 02:59, May 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I greatly appreciate these suggestions. They actually would work within the frame that I'm thinking of. Tbguy1992 17:44, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

SRR
You forgot to add the proposal template when you created the article. Mitro 15:22, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Isle of Wight
When do you think that New Britian would have stoped directly controling the Island because depending on the date i might have to change the orginal base of Southern England to be HastingsVegas adict 21:05, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Your Turn
Your turn for Europe 1430 (Map Game)] and for [[The New & Improved map game (Map Game). --Catherine 17:32, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Genghis Khan Who?
GKW is mainly dead, it was too unrealistic-if you really want to have fun you can start again with Toyotomi Japan, I remember your interest in it. The reason I had problems the first time is because it seemed to me you were just forcing ideas into canon-if you propose it in a 1983 Doomsday:Style I'd love to hear it! But if your heart is set on Genghis Khan Who, we can work out an agreement on that. Mr.Xeight 02:12, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, well then, great to have you! Ms. Christina allowed me to pass on her blessing to you, and from what I remember Mr. Daniel left it up to me to decide whether you're in our out, and I did approve you some months back, I just probably scared you off, no? Anyway, your additions I believe are all still, the only problem I had with them was you didn't ask Mr. Dan's permission. With that said, I'd like you to again ask Mr. Dan to start work on Toyotomi, and if he asks, I beg you to give him an outline so we can avoid a confrontation if say months from now an idea isn't what he was expecting pops up.

Welcome aboard, mate! Brian John Constantine Xeight Mr.Xeight 22:46, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: Your articles were about England's past, right? What do you have in mind for their present and eventually their future (which will be the present at the time we get there, but you understand what I'm saying! :D)

If I recall correctly, there is a government-in-exile in the NAC. And what type of government currently runs England-proper as of 2010? I don't remember no do I have enough time to check Britain's page, I have quite a bit of homework to do and the Lost Finale at 8! Mr.Xeight 17:46, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Great Britain in FTBW
Well, I had meant to say that Britain has one of the largest army reserves, as conscription would be introduced in the 1830's, mostly because the French Imperial Navy would be as powerful, if not more, than the Royal Navy by then (as both nations would have vast overseas colonial Empires, so would need it.), which would allow an invasion, despite the fact that Great Britain was not invaded during the First Great European War.

And yes, Great Britain will support the Confederacy, but I haven't quite got up to the point (in ATL, the Civil War starts in 1858, at about the same time as the Second Great European War, so Britain will have problems closer to home, A.K.A., France.)

But, thank you for reading my timeline! That really warms my heart that somebody is actually reading it! Tbguy1992 14:52, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Arrival
Thanks for the advice - it's nice to see that my stuff is getting read. You have a good point, I've probably pushed the EU thing a bit fast, and it would probably still be a strong group of nations rather than a loose single nation. As I keep working on the timeline I'll likely be able to sort out these flaws and create something more realistic for the universe it's in. I'll keep your suggestion in mind as I continue work. Fegaxeyl 16:53, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

World War I Map Game
Would you like to reject the triple entente and form an alliance with the Central Pact? Then Belgium can be annexed by you.

Actually, could you help out the Allies, I'm fighting this single-handed. BoredMatt 01:12, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sign the Peace Treaty

Thanks for that
Thanks for making that edit, in French Trafalgar, British Waterloo (1831-1858). I was just trying to get my thoughts down last night, and was trying to think of something, but that makes so much more sense. And thanks for reading my AltHist!

Tbguy1992 12:55, June 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * As of now, I will soon be updating the third part of the History section, French Trafalgar, British Waterloo (1858-1882), which will begin with the basic outline of the Second Great European War (which would really be like a massive, Europe wide Crimean War: brave soldiers, incompetent generals and pomp, circumstance and misery for everyone involved.)


 * I will also be detailing the Second America's War, which will break out at the same time in North America, and will really be a slightly modified Civil War, but after the war in Europe is done, then Great Britain would ally with the Confederacy, and defeat the US.


 * After that, I don't have much: maybe the Northern part of the Mexican Empire will break off and form Deseret, as the Mormons would not want to become part of the United States or the Pacific Republic. Most likely in Europe the Marseilles Pact will fall apart, as they lose the Second Great European War, and the young hemophiliac (again, thanks for that :P) Emperor would die at a young age, and the real Napoleon III, Charles Louis Napoleon Bonaparte, will be named Emperor. What do you think?


 * PS - Would you want to be credited with helping with French Trafalgar, British Waterloo? You have already done a lot to help me, and I would like to thank you for that.


 * Yeah, and besides destroying racial stereotypes in the U.K., it would do the same throughout Europe, and possibly even in America, so slavery dies a long over due death, while such instances as the Canadian Residental Schools and the Indian Wars. Sound good? Tbguy1992 01:46, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

British Antartic Territory
Would you mind if I helped you out on the article you made on it in 1983: Doomsday? Arstarpool 04:42, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Commonwealth of Nations
I am sorry I have to do this without asking you, but another user is making very strange changes to the Commonwealth of Nations. I am so sorry if you didn't want this to be the name, but for the sake of it not being a confusion I had to rename it the Commonweath of British Nations. Again, I am sorry for making changes to your work when I shouldn't have, but User:VENEZUELA thought this was the new League of Nations and added even American nations in California! Arstarpool 02:05, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Useful images
I asked Verence71 if he could think of any good ways to get images of British troops. Here are the results, which you may wish to use for East Britain (though the Guardsmen don't really look like the guys here).

Enjoy! (And sorry for giving them awful filenames, I may change this.)

Fegaxeyl 15:31, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Central Word
Hi might you help me expand and create articles for Central World, it's a small community project but i'm trying to grow it. Please Answer Me. VENEZUELA 03:08, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

IRC
This is sort of an IM thing that Smallpox and Vegas found, I checked it out and it's pretty cool.

Go to http://webchat.freenode.net/

write your nickname

type "wikia_ah" (remove quotation marks) in the channel box

enter, and party.

Pass it on.

BoredMatt 14:28, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

PS me and EE found the layout a bit confusing, you type in the text bar at the bottom of the screen.

Concluding the Wars
I've created this map, which shows the end result of our efforts in East Anglia. Note that it does not show Soham under your control (I believe that I mentioned it had already been won by Essex; if not, this is how I intend the history to show) and that you and Woodbridge have joint administration over west Norfolk. If you have any problems please bring them up. Fegaxeyl 17:42, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

1430
Hey, I'm Ownerzmcown and I'd like to ask you, a player of the Map Games to go to the Europe 1430 Map Game talk page and vote against allowing the British Group to invade the Germanic Pact near the bottom of the screen, the idea is borderline implausibility and needs to be rolledback! Ownerzmcown 11:57, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

bob you seem like a good man with a good idea and so i grant you full power to fix up the swarm on the Somme tl..s it is +600 pages in length.

East Britain Military Zone
At the end of the war Woodbridge will have a similar zone immediately to the west so given the map Fegaxyel has created perhaps it would be an idea to combine the zones into one under joint Woodbridge/East Britain control with joint patrols etc. Verence71 18:48, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Pertaining to CYOAH
I see you have created a page on Choose Your Own Alternate History! While that is good you failed to leave the most important constituant on the page: the previous button. If it had no previous button, I have to go back and insert one. Unfortunately, with the large number of pages, it has become exceedingly difficult to locate the page from which yours spawned. Therefore, if you do not find it pronto, there will be consequences! Have a nice day!

Second-in-command CYOAH, Leiutenant Fuhrer Grammar Nazi Jazon Naparleon 18:08, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, I cleaned up your mess, but next time, make sure you have a previous button!

LTFGN Jazon Naparleon 18:23, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Um, Bob, I hope you don't take Jazon too seriously...I just hope you understand that it is a friendly little reminder, because it is a lot easier to have a previous button on the CYOAH articles. Please don't be to insulted, and I hope you will continue to contribute to CYOAH!


 * PS: if you have any more ideas for French Trafalgar, British Waterloo, they will be greatly appreciated! I've knda hit a writers block, so progress is slower than what I had thought it would be, so any new ideas will be greatly appreciated!

Supreme Commander of CYOAH, Tbguy1992 18:27, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Map of post-Doomsday Britain
It's disappeared from the Woodbridge article, are you making an updated version??

EDIT. I just noticed you have don that. Just one minor detail, while Woodbridge does intend at a future date to take control of the rest of Norfolk, we currently only control the Condominium of West Norfolk in conjunction with East Britain

2nd EDIT On balance you might as well keep the updated map as it is as Woodbridge will take control of the rest of Norfolk in a few years anyway

Verence71 19:20, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

You mean Essex. Unless you have ulterior motives... ;-) Fegaxeyl 19:31, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

I suggested to Mumby that the parts of Norfolk recently gained by East Britain and Woodbridge should be run as a condominium similar to that of West Suffolk Verence71 19:36, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Whoops, my mistake. I confused Norfolk for Suffolk. Fegaxeyl 20:17, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Your Ideas for FTBW
Thanks for the ideas for the British Empire in FTBW that you just sent. However, I currently have it planned that Germany and Britain will have a fall out after the First Global War, in which Britain and France become allied in time for the next Global War, but that war, in opposition to OTL World War One will end with neither side really winning the war, and only ends after the majority of parties are exhausted from the war, and agree to sign a treaty after five years of attrition. Some nations would collapse afterwards, such as Germany, which becomes Fascist, as does Britain and the CSA, while nations like the US and Russia become more leftist, democratic socialism. Canada and China would collapse into civil war after the Great Depression begins in 1922 (everything in ATL is roughly ten-fifteen years before OTL, except some technological advancements). After the Third global War between Nazi Germany, Britain, CSA and China versus France, USA, Russia and Japan (as major members of the alliances,) France, Russia and the USA emerge as the superpowers, but the Czarist government collapses after war, and becomes founding member of Non-Aligned Alliance to protect weaker nations. France dominates the continent wide "European Pact" made up of almost every nation in Europe, while the US is the Leader of the North American Treaty Organization (NATO), uniting all the nations of North America, as well as Japan and several nations in South America into an alliance against the European Pact. France would become increasingly leftist while the US virtually abandon's its socialism and becomes more free-market. The Cold War in the TL would still be ongoing today, but due to the wide use of nuclear weapons in the Third Global War, their is no "MAD" doctrine, as no one would support it.

Their, that is my basic outline for the rest of the story. What do you think? Tbguy1992 21:54, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

OBN proposal
Hey. Would you mind checking the talk page of the OBN article for a proposal I wrote. Thanks. Fegaxeyl 16:30, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Cleveland seems to have grown massively in the latest incarnation of the Britain map. Fegaxeyl 17:19, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, right, it was just that the size increase was pretty drastic. By the way, did you check out the proposal on the OBN page? Fegaxeyl 17:30, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the one. If you've got any ideas to add for what could be done on King Andrew's trip, please add them in. Fegaxeyl 17:44, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

TSPTF Lieutenant?
Hey, Bob, I was wondering, in honor if your services to the Wikia, if you would be willing to agree to being nominated for one of the Lieutenant posts currently available? I think you would be able to do a lot of great work in this role, as you are very active within the community, and have helped many, including myself.

Please reply as soon as possible to let me know of your answer!

Tbguy1992 03:43, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for agreeing to at least be put up to be voted on. To find out more about the post of Lieutenant, find it here, and, if you are still willing to accept the post, just say under your name that you have accepted the nomination. If you don't, I completely understand, for it is a fairly powerful post that requires a high degree of responsibility, but I think you can handle it!

Tbguy1992 05:00, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Cold War Map Game
Hey, I've recently restarted the map game Cold War! (Map Game) and say that you were one of the players, I would like you to start playing again and bring life back to this awesome map game Ownerzmcown 17:41, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Sussex
They control all of east sussex except for a 12 mile radius around Brighton, the also control all of west sussex except for the Crawley and Horsham districtsVegas adict 19:12, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Reply to FTBW
Yes, they will become Dominions: Canada in 1869, and South Africa in 1885. Canada will not stretch coast to coast, mostly because of the establishment of Assiniboia and Alyseka in between them and the Pacific. The USA and the CSA would have to fight each other and Britain and Mexico, respectively, to also try to reach the Pacific as well, as both want to, but don't want their neighbor and rival to so either. This will set the stage for the Third America's War in 1882. However, I see that Britain would be the only other major power to be drawn into the conflict, as France would not want to jeopardize its fragile alliance with Britain by supporting its old ally, the US.

What do you think? Tbguy1992 16:51, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

The one problem with that idea, Bob, is that the US is much smaller than in OTL, and would have been roughly the same size as the CSA after the Confederates gain independence (due to the American defeat in the First America's War, which resulted in the loss of nearly half of the Louisiana Purchase to Britain), so the majority of the Northwest Confederacy would actually have been British. Maybe their was a rebellion, but it was still crushed, leaving bitter resentment between the East and West USA?

While the idea of a monarchical Texas is intriguing, I would have to say that it won't be possible. Mexico, which Texas got its independence from, is a Imperial Monarchy basically, so the majority of the people would not want to "fall to the same level" as the Mexicans.

They were good ideas, Bob, but they really don't work with TL. The way it is going now, because I'm setting the stage for a Third America's War, between the USA, Mexico and Assiniboia versus the CSA, Canada, the Pacific Republic and Britain over the British held Oregon territory and the Mexican Sonora/Arizona land, as both the US and CS want to get a Pacific coast, but they don't want the other to get one. This will be a three year war that will be like OTL's Franco-Prussian War, changing the balance of power in North America and laying the basis for the next world war.

If you have any other ideas, though, shout them out! I always appreciate hearing them! If you find an article that is red linked in FTBW, and is explained somewhat in the main article, go ahead and fill in the blanks and create the article if you want. 19:26, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * What I had meant for the Russian-Alaska thing is that the Czar, Alexander II, wasn't interested in Colonialism after the Second Great European War, when he had more issues closer to home, such as rebuilding vast areas of the Empire, and he saw it as a drain on the treasury, especially without a dedicated Pacific port in Russian hands (as the Vladivostok Area is in Chinese hands, and later will fall to the Japanese), so when the locals suggested creating an independent state with the czar as the nominal head of state (like OTL British Dominions), he agreed. They later expanded after formation southwards, mostly because their was really no set line between the British Oregon Territory, Assiniboia and Alaska. Tbguy1992 19:45, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Celtic Condemnation
...Wow. That's gonna be a big diplomatic incident. Especially given the upcoming royal visit to the OBN lands. Fegaxeyl 11:10, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

While the politician from East Britain might have gone overboard a bit he does basically have a point. If anyone has a claim to Norfolk it's gonna be Woodbridge Verence71 14:29, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think East Britain has just joined Prussia in the 'aggrevating a far more powerful neighbor' club. It'll be interesting to see the CA's reaction. Good point about Norfolk though.Tessitore 23:31, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

I've just had a look at the latest World Headlines and it's all starting to kick off. Seems like the CA aren't best pleased with what your Chancellor said about them and they've started a blockade on your ports. Thankfully due to the recent wars you can still get imports via Woodbridge and Essex:

September 1, 2010: Celtic Alliance declares blockade of East Britain: DUBLIN, Celtic Alliance - After the Chancellor of East Britain blasted the Celts as "Irish Imperialists", Prime Minister Andrew Price declared today that he will blockade East Britain's ports for an indefinite amount of time due to "weapons of mass destruction" being discovered in East Britain's port cities. He announced his actions to the LoN that he will end the blockade only if an League of Nations Task Force is sent to East Britain.

Verence71 08:20, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I like this, war is bubbling up. East Britain, fully within its rights to say what it said, is now being blockaded by the Celts. Woodbridge supports what East Britain says. Essex just doesn't like the Celts. That's the core of the OBN against the Celts. Then there's Southern England, which though a major Celtic backer has (as of two days ago) requested to join the OBN. Their allegiance is uncertain. Furthermore, there's Cleveland-Northumbria, who are in a similar position to Southern England. New Britain might ally with the OBN, but is unlikely to take any part in the conflict. At least that leaves the Scots with us.

Essex will declare that it supports East Britain and that the Chancellor is within his rights to make those comments. Essex will also oppose any LoN occupation and Celtic blockade. I'm sure East Britain would enjoy a temporary removal of all tariffs on Essex-East British trade...? Fegaxeyl 09:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Woodbridge is with you on this. We can only hope that the LoN tells the CA where to stick it's demand for a LoN occupation of East Britain. Perhaps the CA's actions will be seen as a big nation bullying a smaller one which could get East Britain and the wider OBN some sympathy. One problem is that neither EB, Woodbridge or Essex are members of the LoN so who could speak for us there?? Verence71 11:44, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Woodbridge applied for the ADC, so it may have some friends there. Failing that we could appeal to New Britain, though NB-EB relations might be a little shaky (and NB is also being screwed over by the LoN and has a suspension... jeez, I'm getting patriotic over a non-existent nation). Essex and Woodbridge could try the Nordic Union as we have trade relations. Fegaxeyl 15:38, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: What is the OBN's most plausible route of action upon dealing with Southern England's request for joining? Dismiss it until a later date? Admit them as soon as possible and get a new ally? Fegaxeyl 16:08, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Excuse, why is this in any way plausible, or even likely? The Celtic Alliance is an ADC member, a well respected member of the LoN and has just taken part in the 2009 Sagunecy(?) War. What possible reason has the Alliance got for this course of action? It doesn't serve the Celts interests in the slightest.HAD 16:31, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

It turns out the CA's reaction was a joke post on Arstarpool's part so in the words of Corporal Jones "Don't panic Captain Mainwaring, don't panic!!" Verence71 09:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * To be fair, it wouldn't be the first time a nation has over-reacted to a bit of name calling. I've long thought that a lot of international relations bares an uncanny resemblence to a playground squabble. I feel rather sorry for Cleveland, Northumbria and Southern England as they're stuck in the middle of this mess, Cleveland especially since they're a LoN member.Tessitore 18:09, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think either the OBN or the CA want this situation to descend into war. Perhaps we could have Cleveland and Northumbria offering to act as neutral intermediaries as they have close links with both sides Verence71 19:02, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, good idea. It'll be up to Smoggy though. If I get Lancaster up and running in time they might help out as well.Tessitore 19:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, good idea. It'll be up to Smoggy though. If I get Lancaster up and running in time they might help out as well.Tessitore 19:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Worst. Joke. Ever.HAD 16:14, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

King Andrew
Now a few things, Why hasn't he been crowned King in all these years? B)If he's marrying a commoner, does that mean he has to give up the throne of NB? And if so would the the throne then pass to Queen Anne of Cleveland? Or did Edward survive as well? Or would he just be King of New Britain living in Victoria?Oerwinde 15:50, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Andrew was crowned king before the migration to what's now New Britian. Tessitore 17:47, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I suppose it depends if the Act of Settlement is in effect in New Britain. Under those rules if Andrew married a Catholic or converted to Catholicism. If those occured after he came to the throne then Andrew would have to stand down Verence71 19:35, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Scotland
Are you planning to do anything with Scotland? i've just got some possible ideas for the area--Smoggy80 18:53, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks i've started adding stuff to the page, hope thats its ok, if not, let me know --Smoggy80 21:36, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Woodbridge flag
I'm thinking of making some alterations to the flag of Woodbridge but I'm no good on the graphics side if things so I wonder if you could help me on that score?? Verence71 22:01, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Woodbridge flag
I'm thinking of making some alterations to the flag of Woodbridge but I'm no good on the graphics side if things so I wonder if you could help me on that score?? Verence71 22:01, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

FTBW
Well, first of all, thanks for still reading my TL! I always look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions.

However, their is going to be some right-wing group that will take over, because Socialist revolutions in ATL are going to be seen as violent, disruptive and ultimately destructive to the nation (the first communist state will be China, which is more like OTL Russia, and it was preceded by a civil war that only ended by 1927, over ten years after the end of the war.)

But Britain will not be a Fascist state as we recognize it: Their leader (I haven't thought of a name yet) would be like Mussolini, who looked down on German Nazism until the late 1930's. But, some of the tenets of Nazism will not be the same: the almost fanatical hatred of Jews will not be evident in Britain, though a massive military build-up and establishment of dictatorship will take place. If anything, you can consider the UK almost a version of Franco's Spain (in this TL, A more right wing leader will take power in Spain).

My biggest thing is to try to not use every AH stereotype. For example, their will be no Hitler lead Germany, though he does become PM of Austria-Hungary, except he hides his Antisemitism as the majority of the people don't like oppressing the Jews. Also, Russia is stronger in ATL than it would have been in WWI, and manages to survive, though a Communist revolution lead by Lenin and Stalin breaks out in 1915, but it is crushed by the army and secret police, with both of them being executed.

That is the start to filling everything in, but I'm going to keep plugging away at it. I'm still trying to figure out how the "Cold War" will work, though it will between the US and France, but the US would be more socialist and France is more right wing, though they still accept capitalism. Do you have any ideas on that?

Thanks, Tbguy1992 15:11, October 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bob, I would like to remind you that this is Alternate History, not actual history. Although those views are well founded, you must remember that, in ATL, Britain lost the war: although their army remained undefeated, the blockade of the UK to prevent supplies and food from reaching the isles from Canada, Australia, Africa and South America, as well as the revolt of the Irish to establish their own nation. I think the simultaneous defeat of the British, the starvation of the people and loss of Ireland would be enough fodder for an extreme nationalist party to eventually take power. Say a mixture of Socialism and nationalism, like what the Nazi's originally had campaigned on before Hitler took over. Tbguy1992 18:32, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I understand. I know you are a very reasonable person, but that just isn't the way FTBW was going to go in.

I have figured out how to get to work: basically, the "bad" ideology of the time (like OTL Nazism) would be what we would consider Stalinism, but under the title of, well, National Socialism. It would be like the name suggests: were the government controls the economy with a strong Nationalistic tendency. This is the idea so that later France could become more right-wing authoritarian in the "Cold War", while the US is more centrist democratic. They would both believe in Free-market ideas, but the US would be government interventionist, while the French Empire is more Lassiez-Faire. Although the US would be accused by France of being "National Socialist," they would counter by saying they have elections for most offices, unlike France.


 * It will be something like Italy: the monarchy will still be there, but the National Socialists hold all the power. The monarchy will be the "rock" that holds the nation together, while the BNS (or whatever it will be called) will run the nation through their rubber stamp Parliament, reducing the House of Lords to no power to change legislation. All opposition will be arrested and imprisoned, so the BNS will take over the House of Commons. King Edward VIII will come to power, as he wouldn't dare marry Mrs. Simpson, as, well the US is bitter enemies of Britain, and that would have been suicide (somebody would have tried to kill him, maybe even the BNS), but after the war (which will feature the French Invasion of Britain), he will be disposed and tried for war crimes, and George VI, who left after his brother came to the throne due to his closeness with the BNS, will become the new king with French support. Churchill, who in this TL will lead Britain before the BNS comes to power, either is forced to flee (like a de Gaulle figure), or is gunned down, I'm not sure. I have already said he was a writer who joined politics, so that may make sense. Tbguy1992 18:36, October 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, their flag is pretty good, and I may use it as a base to design some new flags for FTBW. I'm thinking, since this is more socialist, it may have something to tie in with the workers, as well as Nationalistic overtures. But, I like the idea of the flag, but it might be quite suitable for what I need. Thanks for showing me that flag, though! Tbguy1992 20:43, October 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * As of this moment, I believe Britain will be under the heal of a national socialist dictatorship by about 1933-1934. It will be similar to what I had described above, and, although I really don't want to, as I'm a nice guy and all, but I have to think of a group that will be sorta frowned upon, if not outright suppressed. This will happen in the CSA and the British empire, and maybe Germany and Italy to a lesser extent, as I was thinking that Britain will blame the Irish and some of the other races in the British Isles for their defeat, which may result in Nazi-style concentration camps. The only reason I will include this is because it will work well within the story, not because I personally hate the Irish and blacks and Jews, etc. I feel a good alternate history is one where you don't gloss over certain events by saying they didn't happen, but to modify them enough to illustrate what could have happened.


 * And, the war will end with the invasion of Britain by France and allies (possibly also the US and North American forces will also help), a reverse D-Day if you will, which will result in the collapse of the National Socialist's in Britain. By this time, both Germany, Italy and Spain will have been defeated as well, so that would leave the CSA, which will be nuked, possibly twice, like in OTL Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Tbguy1992 14:44, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

west midlands
it might be best to talk to Tess as they're doing the Lancaster which will be closer to the west midlands. I do have a facebook page but to be honest i dont use it very often--Smoggy80 20:07, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Someone say my name? *grin* Yeah, Lancaster is a lot closer to Mercia then Smoggy's neck of the woods, with the two being seperated by the area that's Cheshire in the OTL, the CA's territory around Liverpool and various irradiated areas, although in the case of the latter it looks like there is a 'corridor' to the east of Manchester. It probably wouldn't be somewhere you'd want to live but it'd be possible to travel from Lancaster to Mercia without risking radiation exposure. The CA is even closer of course but I don't know Mecia's views on the Celts. Regarding Lancastrian-Mercian relations, I have had an idea. Mercia is landlocked, while Lancaster has more ports then it knows what to do with (three in use, plus the disused docks at Preston). Think there might be potential for a business arrangement there?Tessitore 14:41, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Virginian-East British Treaty
We should really discuss the particulars of the treaty between Virginia and East Britain. I'm going to run an idea by you, and I politely request that you give me honest feedback. The Virginians send groups of soldiers and their extended families to East Britain. In return, the East British allow them to "lease" a portion of uninhabited Lincolnshire, in a spirit reminiscent of pre-Doomsday Hong Kong. This territory, which I have dubbed "New Virginia", is effectively a colony of Virginia under the authority of East Britain. It is effectively a copy of Virginia in miniature. As a result, the Virginian flag flies alongside the East British flag. It is under the command of General John Henry Eden, who has been ordered to accept East British authority.

Yankovic270 16:37, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

1. Yes, because officially the New Virginia "colony" is still part of East Britain. They answer to East British officials, though the territory itself is lead by Virginians.

2. The residents of the territory will be mainly a slowly increasing population of Virginians.

3. As I said for the first question, the territory is part of East Britain, not Virginia. They are an enclave of Virginian law and government that otherwise needs to conform to East British law.

4. They are attempting to prove to East Britain (and to other potential international allies) that they are trustworthy.

5. Who says they are leaving their families? The deal sends slowly increasing numbers of Virginian soldiers and their families. And when you're with your wife/husband (there are female soldiers in the Virginian army) and kids, the "where" is less of an issue.

Yank 22:04, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Europe 1452 Britain
Frankly, I'm not at all that concerned about unification of Britain. As a Scot, I'd like to see Scotland succeed as it's own independent nation. We're in a wierd position here, in that you are an Englishman playing as the Scots, and I as a (part)Scotsman playing as the dreaded Sassenach. I'd doubt that the kings of Scotland and England would even consider some sort of action that would bring the two kingdoms together in a peaceful, power-sharing agreement. Nor do I suspect that the peasantry would at all like the idea of being so suddenly allied/united/friendly with the same people who just recently were their deadly enemies in every possible sense of the term. Maybe in a few centuries it would be plausible for them to enter some sort of union (such as what happened in OTL), but, just like in OTL, I'm doubting that they'd be considered equal members of said union. I'm not saying that your plan is completely inconceivable, but it is highly unlikely considering the current geopolitical situation.

BoredMatt 19:28, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Another map request
Bob, would you be kind enough to redraw the British map, with Essex's borders advanced westwards until they run along the A1? Incidentally, on the topic of the possible trade routes, do you think that the heads of state from all interested nations would have some form of conference to flesh out the plans? Fegaxeyl 18:12, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Would that be all the heads of state of the OBN?? Verence71 19:14, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

OBN, West African Union, New Britain... any state that thinks it could benefit from the trade route. Fegaxeyl 21:40, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, but where would the conference be held? Verence71 18:14, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

That's part of the issue - the only area I think would be pretty much equally accessible would be somewhere in the West African Union, which would obviously comprise a major part of the trade. By the way Bob, I saw you uploaded a new map today, but it didn't appear that Essex's borders had changed. Fegaxeyl 20:04, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Just noticed you changed the map. Much obliged. Fegaxeyl 18:34, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

VH contest
I just started a contest on the main talk page. Check it out. I would love to see what you have in mind for a New Scotland. ^_^ --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:04, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Scotland and OBN
I don't think that the New Scottish State would be looking to join the OBN. The current government is extreamly nationalistic (almost bordering on zenophobic) and they would see themselves as a successor to the Scottish Nation rather than the British Nation. But thinks change quickly in this world so i wouldn't say never.--Smoggy80 18:30, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Britain Post War FTBW
Well, at the moment, I'm not completely sure. I'm sorta taking a break from AH at the moment, and I haven't even got to the war yet... most likely in a week or two I'll get back to work on it, just right now I'm taking a break... Tbguy1992 18:36, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

East Britain - Virgina treaty
Who will be looking after the bulk of Lincolnshire when the treaty happens? East Britain or Virgina? it's just that hopefully, if no one has any problems, the East Riding of Yorkshire shall become part of Cleveland in 2011 after a referendum.

I was hoping to decide borderlines, maybe the Humber? also trade links, i would think that the Humber Bridge (which will still be the worlds longest suspension bridge as the Akashi-Kaikyō Bridge in Japan will never have been built)will still be standing as it was brand new in 1981 and also railway links via Goole? anyway if you could let me know whos land is it anyway. ta --Smoggy80 16:14, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well, technically East Britain will have national sovereignty over the entire area, byt there will be an area under Virginian administration. I was also considering bringing in some Marcher Lords, who will be decorated officers from TBA War, who will have the right to expand their borders in the name of East Britain and bring in all and any laws they deem necessary. Also, proximity with Cleveland will possibly lead to small scale immigration across the border? Mumby 10:38, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Once the East Riding of Yorkshire is incorporated into Cleveland i'm going to expand the Cleveland rail network into the area, with that it would link to Rheged, Northumbria and even the Celtic Alliance in Glasgow, so immigration would probably increase from all those areas--Smoggy80 11:41, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Explorers Map Game Burma
A quick thing regarding your most recent post: Scotland has no territory in Burma. Your post directly stated that the Scots landed in Indochina, not Burma. Indochina is Laos, Vietnam, and Cambodia. As Laos and Cambodia are all but landlocked, your settlers landed in Vietnam, Chinese territory.--Emperor of Trebizond 17:47, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

North Sea oil
I'm hoping to start oil production (with three rigs to start with) in the North Sea off the coast of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire in 2012(ish) i was hoping you could think of somewhere i can bring the pipelines ashore in East Britain, i was thinking one in North Norfolk, one in South Lincolnshire.

Also is East Britain thinking of taking the rest of Norfolk under its control? or will Woodbridge be taking over the area? It's just if Woodbridge is due to then i'll contact the editor of that page and see if they want a pipeline in that area as well.--Smoggy80 14:26, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

I don't personally know of gaspipelines but Bourne itself used to be an area of gas refining, so there you have your Lincolnshire pipeline. And to your question about Woodbridge, they will take all of Norfolk. East Britain is concentrating on the settlement of Lincolnshire. Mumby 14:48, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

Would this be okay for Lincolnshire Theddlethorpe??

This one is on the Norfolk coast so it could work for Woodbridge, Bacton Verence71 20:21, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

The problem is, with both those sites, is that they're described as 'large'. I would assume that the Soviets would make a point of taking out any major power facilities - and a gas terminal is just inviting attack. Given the choice between taking out a few key terminals and every single rig in the North Sea, it's not hard to see which would be more economical. Fegaxeyl 20:27, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

I take the point. The rigs would have survived Doomsday but I would imagine that after some 23 years later they would be in a very dire state. In that case Woodbridge and East Britain might have to do some deal with an oil-producing state eg the Nordic Union to repair the North Sea rigs or even construct new ones Verence71 11:56, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Stirling Awards
Nice to see you made a nomination, but that section is for flags made in 2010 only. You could move it to the lifetime achievement section for files and that would be fine, however.

Lordganon 10:40, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

American History Unusual Divergence points
Well, you kinda got me here, cause I really don't think their are such things as "Unusual" points of divergence, especially when it comes to North American History.

However, POD's that are usually over looked (to name a few), include several incidents of near war between the US and the British, especially before Canada was formed, including the Oregon Boundary dispute (Fifty-four forty or Fight!), as well as possibly events in Canada, including a successful Northwest Rebellion in Canada in 1885.

However, I say that perhaps the most interesting POD that could be thought up is that Columbus didn't find the new World: say his ship sank or something, and it was years before another attempt was tried, say another nation like England or even France finds the New World first. These are just suggestions of course, but they are all i can think of off the top of my head! Tbguy1992 21:51, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'll have to think about this a bit, but for starters, I would take anything that has to do with a major historical event (Columbus, the Civil War, Oregon, the Revolution, etc.) or anything you learned in school about North American History and eliminate them as possible points of divergence. Get something truly unusual.

Will try to think of something juicy for you.

Lordganon 00:28, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

A few possibilities:


 * The Chesapeake–Leopard Affair of 1807 results in war between Britain and the USA, 5 years early. In otl, diplomacy won out, but what if it hadn't?
 * The native tribes in otl Oklahoma that were moved from the east put up resistance in the east, like the Seminoles and creeks. In otl, they did not - they were convinced to go peacefully - but what if they had?
 * Huron tribes in otl Ontario were offered a chance to join the Iroquois Confederation, but declined, starting off centuries of fighting. What if they had accepted?
 * The Treaty of Suza was signed in 1629 between France and England. One of its clauses was for territories seized afterwards to be returned. England took Quebec and Nova Scotia 3 months afterwards, and gave them back under the treaty. But what if they had kept them despite the treaty?
 * In 1903, an arbitration panel for the Alaska boundary dispute ruled for a border which favored the USA. But what if it had gone the other way, favoring Canada, or had given the US the full extent of their claims?

Maybe more in the future.

Lordganon 22:44, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Also, Columbus approached several other governments to fund his expedition, including Genoa, Venice, England, and Portugal, which could have lead to a very different makeup of the Caribbean.

A French victory in the North American theatre of the 7 Years war could lead to an extended French presence.

The Hanseatic League died out because the wealth of trans-atlantic trade eventually made them obsolete. But what if the Hansa decided to claim their own colonial holdings?

One of the British goals of the War of 1812 was to create an Indian territory in OTL Ohio and Michigan, what if that had succeeded, leading to an independent Native American nation?Oerwinde 11:14, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

I've only got a couple at this point, but here goes:

What if the minds that made the Revolution possible were Loyalists? Imagine if Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Mason, etc. all supported the British.

What if the Nat Turner revolt somehow succeeded (more than it did in OTL, that is)?

What if Robert E. Lee had stayed with the Union?

What if Lewis&Clark were killed on their expedition (probably meaning no louisiana purchase)?

I'll see if I can find some more. BoredMatt 12:40, December 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Louisiana Purchase was in 1803, and L + C left in 1804, making that one a goner. Would take out Oregon, mind. Lordganon 12:45, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Of course you also have the possiblity of the Viking settlement in Vinland (Newfoundland) surviving, meaning a European settlement 500 years pre-Columbus. 1868 - US forces landed in Japan to protect US intrests during the Japanese Civil war, what if they stayed, or 1893 the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii (This action was disavowed by President Cleveland, and eventually the United States apologized in 1993) but if it wasn't occupied, then no Pearl Harbor to bring the USA into WW2--Smoggy80 16:54, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

A few more:


 * In 1673, the Dutch recaptured New York (the New Netherlands) from England. At the end of the war, it had to be returned back to England because the state (Zeeland) that set it up could not afford it - they had tried to give it to Holland, but they had refused. What if they had not refused it?
 * Various groups of English/French colonists having landed at other spots on the coast than where they did (Quebec, Plymouth, etc.)
 * In 1794, the Whiskey Rebellion in Western Pennsylvania ended before federal troops arrived. What if it hadn't?
 * During the American Civil War, Eastern Tennessee was a Union stronghold in a state dominated by the west, holding secession conventions of its own ala~ West Virginia. This ended up failing, at least in part because unlike the Virginians, they asked for permission instead of doing it. What if they had not asked, or something else led to their actually succeeding - how different would things be today with an "East Tennessee" state?
 * Portuguese fishermen used parts of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland as bases during the 1500s, but did not stay. What if they had stayed, in some form?
 * In 1621, the Scots were granted the right to colonize Nova Scotia by their king - after arriving in 1622, the settlements failed. What if they had not?
 * On December 7, 1837, the leader of the Upper Canada Rebellion was advised by his military commander to retreat from Toronto. What if he had listened, or better yet, they had actually advanced on December 5th, when they had more numbers and outnumbered the Garrison, meaning they would have taken the city and possible held it, making the rebellion so much worse in Upper Canada?

Lordganon 08:51, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

What if William Henry Harrison didn't die only 31 days after becoming President and instead served a full term??

As for Oerwinde's suggestion about an independent American Indian nation after 1812 you might care to read this old AH of mine Weird America Verence71 11:44, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

I've done a map and I'm writing it up now. I'll post the map and see whether you can guess what POD's I chose! Mumby 12:02, December 18, 2010 (UTC)



New England and the other North-East states secede from the Union after the War of 1812??

The American Civil still occurs at some point but the Confederates win. However at som

e point after their victory the Confederacy splits??

Utah/Deseret becomes independent because of a different ending to the Utah War??

Is Mexico a Republic or Empire?? Verence71 12:14, December 18,

2010 (UTC)

I haven't decided on that yet, but its probably an Empire,

in personal union with California. New England gained independence during the Civil War. Rats running from a sinking ship if you like. The Confederacy was broken up after WWII, and each nation reflects who occupied it. France occupied Louisiana, Britain occupied Carolina and the USA occupied the remaninder.Mumby 12:39, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Is that a lake or part of the sea in British Columbia? that is if it is water?, how did that happen as that areas very mountainous in reality?--Smoggy80 14:47, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

If you do make Mexico into an empire and have the House of Iturbide or Iturbide-Hapsburg still in power then this guy could could be Emperor in 1950, although at that time he would only be 6 years old so there would be some kind of regency

Maximillian von Gotzen-Iturbide

Verence71 17:11, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

I would love to know what happened with that map, lol. All I can see is the US winning 1812, new England separating, and the confederates winning the civil war and then fracturing afterwards themselves.

Lordganon 16:15, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Basically, the Occidental Sea is real. Then, in the 1837 Rebellions in Canada, France and US interven. Upper Canada become US territories, and Quebec becomes independent. However, Britain consolidates control over Columbia and Oregon, and even sponsors the Provisional Government. It gets what it wants as well as a sphere of influence over a sovereign state the Americans will be less willing to violate. Mexican War, Russia helps the Americans. The Russians conquer bothe Californias, America gets a Pacific port in Sonora. Civil War- Britain France, Russia and Mexico all fight US. CS gets independence as well as New York, New England, Vermont, Deseret and Lakota. Shortly afterwards, Fenians create their own state in Ontario, The Quebecers take Labrador and Louis Riel frees Red River Colony. British North America entirely incorporated into British Columbia. Norton helps California gain independence, crowned Emperor. WWI-Entente wins. USA gets parts of CSA, Mexico and California back. Britain gets Alasks panhandle. Britain sells New Brunswick to New England. Newfoundland, Nova Scoti and PEI are incorporated directly into UK. WWII, CSA defeated and split into occupation zones. British occupation zone becomes Kingdom of Carolina, French zone becomes Louisiana, and the remainder returns to being the CSA. Mumby 16:36, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

When and how did Texas become independent?? Did it not join the US in 1845 as it did in OTL?? Verence71 21:10, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

East Yorkshire referendum
The results are in and the East Riding of Yorkshire has decided to join the Kingdom of Cleveland in the recent referendum. Could you possibly change to post DD map of the UK (it is you that made/looks after it, isn't it?). Anyway this also means that the Kingdom of Cleveland now shares a southern border with East Britain (at The Humber).--Smoggy80 19:06, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

What do you think about running a rail line across the Humber Bridge? I know thats not what it was originally designed for however i can't imagine that it would be heavier than a bridge full of cars and lorries. It means that I could set up a rail link with East Britain, what do you think?--Smoggy80 18:19, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Though East Britain claims the entirity of Lincolnshire, technically they have not yet reached that far north, aside from a few military supply points. Don't move too quickly with this. East Britain is moving to reinforce control of Lincolnshire as fast as it can. Mumby 09:29, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

England and Engineering in FTBW
Well, at the moment I believe I will be making two separate branches of the Royal Family, which I believe will still be called Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. One, lead by OTL's King George VI, would go to Australia as his brother, Edward VIII does assume the throne. Their will be no Abdication Crisis of 1936 in ATL, as it would a) be impossible for him to even consider marrying an American, being enemies and all (think Marie Antoinette and the French Revolution if that did happen), and b) he remains a life long bachelor. The branch of the family lead by George VI, after the war, will change the title to Windsor, but the Monarchy will not be present in the British Isles, so, yeah, Australasia is the only option. South Africa will lose the war, and for it the white minority, which was involved in atrocities against the black majority, would be forcibly exiled from South Africa, so their would be no Apartheid as we know it.

As for the Atlantropa project: I'm going to have to say its not going to happen. This is mostly because no one would have resources (France was completely invaded in the war, the government had to flee to Algeria to continue the fight), and rebuilding the Empire and the war torn nations of the world would be of more pressing concern. Plus, the tensions of the ATL Cold War wouldn't simply allow something like this to take place. However, other big projects will take place, just not on that scale. For example the French, which in this TL are more ideologically closer to Fascists than Communists, would build projects like the German Autobahn of OTL across the New empire, and other major projects that will be delved into later.

And at last, this war that just ended was called the Third Global War, but is basically ATL's World War Two. The reason for this is that the war in the 1860's was called the First Global War, and the ATL First World War is the Second Global War. I hope that makes sense! Tbguy1992 13:46, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Axis vs Allies (Map Game)
Hey Mumby, I'm wondering if you want to join in the Axis vs Allies (Map Game), a map game created by me. It's based on the Second World War, in 1933 when Hitler has just taken power. Thanks! PitaKang 00:40, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Revival
Would you like to revive the original Massive Impact (Map Game)? I really want to finish that game. PitaKang 01:35, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Territorial claims
Yo - the map is accurate for Essex's current territory, more or less. If you want to add claimed areas, then we're after the rest of Hertfordshire, and all the territories north of the black line to the map on the right. (And Southern England claims the territory below the black line.) As for a sphere of influence... I dunno. Possibly London and some of the home counties adjacent to Hertfordshire, but nothing major. Don't bother with a sphere of influence unless you feel it's really necessary. Fegaxeyl 20:25, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

I've just created a couple of maps for Woodbridge so I dare say they might be useful for the wider map of Britain. In the first one Woodbridge itself in red, the pink bit is Ipswich which Woodbridge "claims" but which in actuality is home to warring clans and the purple bits are Barbergh and the Condominium of West Suffolk which are jointly run by Woodbridge and Essex.

In the second map the light blue section is the Condominium of West Norfolk which is run by Woodbridge and East Britain Verence71 13:58, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

OK territorial claims:


 * Cleveland covers ATL counties of North Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Durham and Tyne and Wear (south of the River Tyne)


 * Northumbria covers ATL counties of Northumberland, Tyne and Wear (north of river Tyne) and most of the old county of Cumberland (post split Rheged), without towns of Whitehaven and Penrith


 * Westmorland and Furness Alliance (WFA) covers old counties of Westmorland and Furness pennisular plus towns of Whitehaven and Penrith.


 * Ur Alba controls everything in former southern Scotland (south of Glasgow and Firth of Forth) not controlled by the Celtic Alliance, with a roughly 5-10 mile border with the CA and Northumbria.

Hope that helps--Smoggy80 16:19, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Aside from the claims mentioned by Fegaxeyl Southern England controls no more than it did last yearVegas adict 16:19, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Had a look at your new map, looks great, one thing though, Rheged no longer exists, after it split from the WFA in the south, the northern part of Rheged joined with Northumbria in early 2011.--Smoggy80 15:23, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

Great map, Mumby - interesting to see how big our territories have gotten recently! Can I just point out that Essex controls the Isle of Sheppey - it's that little island on the south bit of the Thames Estuary. Fegaxeyl 16:51, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Debate point
Hiya, could you check out the OBN talk page for a topic I've just brought up? Thanks. Fegaxeyl 10:03, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Debate point
Hiya, could you check out the OBN talk page for a topic I've just brought up? Thanks. Fegaxeyl 10:03, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Woodbridge Coat of Arms
A while ago you were kind to help me with the design for a new Woodbridge flag



I wonder if you could now make a seperate pic of that coat of arms so I could change the CoA on the Woodbridge main article?? Verence71 17:59, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the CoA :) Verence71 14:03, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

US Civil War Map Game
Hey Mumby, can the UBS join the Entente, and would Dixie like to join the International Congress, you can be in the Security Council? Ceaser1345 18:36, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Mumby, I apreciate it. Ceaser1345 19:19, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Principia Moderni
Hi. I was wondering if you wanted to become a mod on Principia Moderni. You have been active almost every turn, and produced well-thought-out and well-researched posts. Let me know if you're up for it.:) Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 17:43, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Feedback on the Feedback for FTBW
I thank you for the feedback, as it helps to figure out what to do.

For the Pacific Republic, I was going to draw parallels to the Vietnam War, which many of the South Vietnamese didn't care what happened, as long as they got security and peace. The citizens of the Pacific Republic would be the same way, if more hessitant to work with Americans. The Cali's, the main group in the CIM, alienated the people, and the "Varmont Plan" managed to convince the Californians to at least go along with the US, not that they have to be die-hard nationalisits. A successful plan of ensuring saftey for the populace in California (after a long, brutal dictatorship which killed millions, both by war and secret police, then a heavy handed Military administration), will work to at least make the American's seem not so much like the boogeymen they were made out to be later. This would also be the case in Quebec, which I will have to go into detail later.

I was going to make the war in Venezulea another Vietnam parallel, though different in that it will actually force a collapse of one of the three major powers (in this case, Brazil).

Personally, I hate to do the "Cliche" thing, though many times, its really hard to not do so. The Cold War Era is one of those moments: with the proxy fights that pit the superpowers, one which has to loose each battle eventually, it draws upon the history of OTL's Cold War. I try to change it up as much as I can, but, like I said before, its really hard to do so without seeming to be a rehash of real history.

Thank you for still reading my TL, and if you have any ideas, please let me know!

Tbguy1992 17:44, May 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well... you may not like this, but currently England is under a Fascist Dictatorship lead by Bernard Montgomery, though the real strings are stilled pulled by France. This Fascism (which I still have not really thought of a single term that can be used to describe it, though it will be French...) is like a more moderate Italy in OTL: Just so long as you don't rock the boat, nor say the wrong thing, your fine. Unlike OTL Nazi's, their is no mass murders (the National Socialists in this TL already did that, the nationalistic Communists, in the Third Global war), so I would say you would be alright, overall. Now, this might change by the time I'm done, as I still don't know how this whole story is going to go.

Tbguy1992 23:51, May 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * A united Britian will be awhile in the making. I was not going to make it a North Korea anolouge, as it will be more open than OTL North Korea. I would give it a more "East-Germany/West-Germany" feel to it. However, the Demarciation line between Soctland and England is still in force, a literal noman's land, and only with help form France and her allies does England still manage to survive, having become more agricultural under the dictatorship, though with a strong industrial base.


 * However, I would say that their wouldn't be a huge migration northwards. There may have been at the beggining, in the 1950's during and just after the British Isles War, but not so much currently. Another British Thing I was thinking of was that, after the accession of Edward VIII to the throne in 1936, his brother (OTL's Geroge VI), along with Winston Churchill and many of the "democrats" would go into exile; George to Australasia, forming the House of Windsor in ATL, while Churchill would go to Canada, then move on to Assiniboia after the outbreak fo the Canadian Civil War. Therefore, their would be many extrapiate British communities around the world in the former Empire.


 * I also have to work more with the independence of areas like India and Egypt: though I may have mentioned them, I haven't fully fleshed that out yet. I've only gotten out of my "hiatus", so I have a lot of work to do!


 * Tbguy1992 16:28, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

TSPTF
Would you be at all interested in a Lieutenant or Constable position? Lordganon 06:04, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

Hey
iishbashPlease check out my new wiki, http://implausablealternatehistory.wikia.com/wiki/Implausable_Alternate_History_Wiki

southerndude

Lincoln
I'm slowly moving troops towards the city of Lincoln (ETA 25-26th June), before the troops get there I was hoping for some ideas about the city, abandoned or not? leadership make up of the city? estimated population? ETC.

I'm asking you because this city will become part of your territory and you may already have plans for it and I don't want to mess up and potential plans--Smoggy80 17:13, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Well, to sump up Lincolnshire, the south and west are the most populated. With Newolland the largest state but with smaller town-ships, boroughs and even countries. The north and east are less populated due to tactical nukes lauched at airfields in these areas. The people who live here are more tribal, nomadic, and trade with the southern and eastern state. Furthest north is a bit better, with townships clustered along the Humber, mostly for trading with more developed Yorkshire. Lincoln had four tactical nukes launched at its vicinity, and so I don't expect the city to be populated. It might still stand, but the radiation and starvation would have eaither killed or forced out the population long ago. However, I do have a plan for a largeish state in the north made-up of rabid anti-communists, which Newolland will have to fight. Most of Lincolnshire will remain de facto independent for a time, because of the independent nature of the states that will be inetgarted. I don't expect these states to put up a fight. Mumby 17:25, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

I'd just like to drop a note in here. I have a plan for a little township called Sutton-Mansfield in Nottinghamshire, not too far from Lincolnshire. I'm not sure how big this northern anti-communist state is meant to be but if you plan for it to control bits of Nottinghamshire, I just thought I'd mention that. Fegaxeyl 19:10, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

OK i've already written that there has been an agreement with the leaders of the town of Scunthorpe (and the surrounding area) to hold a referendum on joining Newolland on 5th July, up to you how the vote goes. Gainsborough has also been found and will probably follow whatever Scunthorpe does as it is the largest local town of any major size, Doncasters gone due to radiation from Sheffield and two major flooding events, an obviously Nottingham and Sheffield are gone (both being nuked) these being the two nearest cities.

The coastline would be more likely to be friendly, what with fishing and trade vessels travelling up and down the coast, so far the only major surviving townships are Grimsby, Skegness and Mablethorpe.

The are that hasn't been explored are around the towns of Market Rasen, Louth, and Horncastle to the north east of Lincoln, and Newark-upon-Trent to the south west possibly a good place for your anti-communists state, possibly using Lincoln as the ceramonial capital. let me know ASAP as i'm starting to write about exploring that area in the next few days--Smoggy80 13:03, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ok so i've written a section so that is sounds like there is a nation in the centre of Lincolnshire based around towns metioned above, locals using terms like bad people and saying things like they don't trade there all I need to know now is name of the nation, how bad they are ETC and i'll add it in. i've held off on investigating the area until the 27-28th June.--Smoggy80 13:34, June 25, 2011 (UTC)