User talk:NuclearVacuum

Doomsday Advice
Sorry the reply took so long, Nuke - busy time of year, you know?

It's a very feasible idea, I believe. I know it's been talked about before, too.

Essentially, it would be Cape Cod joining Plymouth, and the rest continuing on as the "Outer Lands," correct? Very doable. I would not, however, bet on any of the islands joining Plymouth with the Cape. The Cape has always been a touch odd on there, while the islands made more sense.

Unless you manage to get hold of Arstar, I believe I still have some authority from him for things of his - you've got my go ahead for the Plymouth end and parts of the Outer Lands, though still try for his, and if he refuses, it'd be a "no" overall. Can't see him doing that, however, considering he's always hated Cape Cod being in the Outer Lands.

Past that, I think things devolve on you, Brian, and MasterSanders.

Btw, the correct spot on the DD page would be the section titled "1.1 Countries/Regions/Politics," near the top of the talk page.

Lordganon (talk) 10:53, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket joining Plymouth doesn't really make any sense, Nuke. They have little to nothing in common with it, compared to the rest of the Outer Lands. Cape Cod does, however, have a fair portion in common. That's what all the issues with the state have been about in the past, and I think one of the articles even states that there is a movement on the cape to do just as you're asking. The name of the rest - i.e. without Cape Cod - would continue to be the same.

Note, however, that this would be a modern, ongoing development, not something in the past.

Lordganon (talk) 11:01, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Not "down the toilet" at all, Nuke.

Nuke, the Outer Lands being its current entity, and the squabbles with Plymouth, have been canon for a while - and are referenced in a few spots, far as I remember.

Misspoke slightly when I said "modern" and "ongoing" - last couple of years works well too. As a matter of fact, Plymouth's actions regarding Vermont in March of 2010, when they "requested" the "return" of Vermont's Massachusetts lands to Plymouth, would make more sense had they just had Cape Cod join them.

Given dates of contact, however, any such actions have to be after 2007. The Outer Lands just were not really in touch with anyone prior to then.

As I said, it is a good idea for Cape Cod to do it. The dates just need to "mesh."

Only problem, overall, is a news update Arstar put up on the main page last August, though he never did anything with it, so I figure I can just remove it. Not like his opinion changed, he just decided not to fight anymore over it. The opinions and words on the pages in question did not change, after all.

Lordganon (talk) 05:25, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that is a bit odd that Block never was when the rest were.

By my guesswork, and given the areas of Cape Cod that are part of that area and not under Plymouth authority, Long Island would be dominant, with or without the Cape.

Go with 2009 as a date.

Lordganon (talk) 02:34, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

No, not really a wasteland. It's not all that big of a strike, compared to some, and there would be a ground passage by this point.

Plymouth also controls the very tip of Cape Cod, having taken possession of Provincetown and the Coast Guard station there early on. Elements fleeing Otis made contact with them, even though they fled to Plymouth.

The strike, overall, is basically no problem to any unification.

The map was duplicated by the system when I chose it for a list of images shown when the wiki is featured, etc.

Lordganon (talk) 07:07, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Different sizes - different targets need different scale of attacks, and both parties do only have a limited number of each size.

Don't remember saying that before, but it would not be the case by now - there would indeed be some land access.

It's not really much smaller - by this point, only the base itself would be an area no one could go.

The logic for Provincetown, by and large, is that it is close to Plymouth by water, and would have heard from there before hearing from the county government about the formation of the OL. The survivors from the base heading, in part, to the Coast Guard station there is another part of it.

Up to you as to what to do with the Cape.

Yes, it's a part of the system I did not care for. It should have just let us use images on the wiki instead of making us do what amounted to uploading to their files in addition. At least it doesn't register to the system as copies, I suppose.

Picked that map because it is clean, and shows the concept well. It's also one I'm more or less sure is done.

Don't know about length. My thought really was to have them up there until more obvious edited pictures came up, ala~ confederate planes, etc., minimum, and probably longer.

If you want me to remove it, say the word.

Lordganon (talk) 03:28, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Think of it this way - if a 1 MT nuke, larger than the one used there is likely to have been, detonated on the base, it would have a ring of fires around it that would temporarily block land access. That's about the most that would block a land path, long-term. Have a look at it on this simulator. The area west of Barnstable gets more or less eliminated, but the coastal area would eventually become passable again.

I'd also add to Provincetown that the Otis strike's radiation would have, to some degree, cut off land access to there too.

What can I say, Nuke? You do good maps, lol.

The Doomsday stub template, not the regular stub category markers, goes on any DD stubs. No worries.

Lordganon (talk) 08:13, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

On Otis, nothing larger than maybe 600-700kt in size. You have to add a range beyond what it indicates to take into account the spread of fires in the aftermath as well.

...One is specifically designed for Doomsday articles, the other is not. There's a difference. And as a Doomsday stub, it has to be there, at least for now. Sorry.

That being said, you can have it at the bottom like that.

Lordganon (talk) 09:20, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

If you think that's interesting, try the other simulator and do the largest one - it's an asteroid impact, ala~ the one that killed the dinosaurs. The simulator can also do fallout directions, though only on compass points, and is far worse overall.

Actually, I've got reactors running in a few of my articles, and a few other states are working on bringing more back into running order. In fact, the reopening of Big Rock Point Nuclear Power Plant, in northern Michigan, was a major talking point in the recent Superior election. Rhodope and Transylvania are also looking at restarts on the near-future.

Yes, go for it - them finalizing construction and getting it running certainly is possible. They were designed for the long haul, after all.

Overall, it fits with the timeline too - many areas turned to nuclear power after DD. Far as I know, in fact, it's the biggest source of power for Siberia today, atl.

As to my opinions.... well, there's been a reactor proposed for Northern Alberta, to power the oilsands machinery, for quite some time, and I support it, so....

Lordganon (talk) 06:57, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that asteroid impact is interesting, lol. If only the rest of that simulator was very good...

Would indeed be a lot of possibilities.

Well, by and large, the plants weren't targets. In and itself, the EMP takes them out, and other strikes render them useless, by and large. Most of the ones in mainland Europe, of course, got destroyed by other means, but elsewhere a fair number survived.

Most were shut down, though a few were not, before they could overload. We've kinda left that off to the side, as we've no way to tell for sure exactly which went off.

Nuclear reactors, however, are meant to be quite resistant to damage, EMP, and time. They've lasted the decades much better than any other kind of plant, hydro aside. In many areas, they are the only real power source left, between the plant still standing and stockpiles of fuel, useless for other purposes, still being there. In other countries, getting cut off from the outside world - the Nordic Union being a good example - either entirely, or to some degree, led to them becoming dependent on their nuclear plants for at least a while.

It's led to them getting into use, despite Doomsday. For several countries, it's the only source of power, even today. A few areas that don't have them otl have even built new ones, and others have had them rushed compared to otl, like in the UAR. Others have lasted longer than they lasted before being decommissioned otl - a few in Australia, for instance, probably ran a half-decade or more past those dates from otl.

Odd, but interesting. Look forward to seeing it.

Lordganon (talk) 07:41, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Well, not too rushed, lol. But certainly less humming and hawing about it than otl.

Do as you want with that guy. If I see him doing it I'll take care of it, of course.

Got me as to what the heck Brez was going on about. Haven't talked to him, or anything, and I certainly haven't blocked him.

Lordganon (talk) 01:32, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

You really couldn't have know about the categories bit. No worries. Lordganon (talk) 03:57, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Logical enough for them to expand further west onto the island. Go for it.

Given the size and shape of the Cape, and the strength of the blast, Cape Cod does get unscathed. It's only a direct attack on a single small corner of it.

Odd that no one noticed that typo before you, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 12:08, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Just run with it. It's a tiny detail about your article. No world consequences, etc.

No, you do not need to propose anything if you want to make a template.

Really, so long as it's nothing that could potentially have international implications, don't worry about it.

Way I figure it, since the links to it were removed over the last year (and some) the new one is good - but could you put the "old" version back up in some form?

Lordganon (talk) 01:07, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Works.

Way I figure it, the guy that uploaded it originally did so on purpose, eschewing the other version. So it should stay on here in some form.

Besides, far as I know there's not really any proof the Romans used one or the other.

Lordganon (talk) 02:37, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

English in Cyrillic?
Found this in Ill Bethisad...

http://ib.frath.net/w/English#English_as_a_World_Language

A version of a Cyrillic English alphabet. English in Russian Alaska would both use the North American standard and at the same time, had more native Alaskan and native American borrowings as well as Russian. The folks in IB also made an English Cyrillic alphabet...

Here is the version...

Alternately, they could also use this...

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F

Any opinion?

General tiu (talk) 02:08, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, I have developed my own version of the English Cyrillic alphabet. — Hellerick [[Image:Flag of Divnogorsk.svg|20px]] 03:03, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

This is quite surprising to find in my messages.

Very intriguing idea. I had no idea this was even a possibility. I love IB, and I keep forgetting that Oregon is Russian (more amazed of the "White USSR" and Gorby with a mustache [he's pretty good with Photoshop, I'll give him that]).

As for incorporating this into Russian America, funny you should mention this. However, I was more interested in Alaska and Russia standardizing a latinitsa (Russian Latin alphabet). This is because Alaska would be the only American nation to not use the Latin alphabet, putting more pressure to go in this direction, rather than standardizing an English Cyrillic alphabet. However, I could still see the Russo-Alaskan domination also put pressure on the Anglo-Alaskans that they may indeed Cyrillicize the English alphabet. Though non of these would become official (Russian will still be Cyrillic and English will still be Latin).

Thank you both, this sure made my day. It was sure a brain exercise to read English in Cyrillic (but I did it ^_^). --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 04:02, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Imperial Federation
Like you said at first in that - nationalism would exist, just not like otl.

It'd be more like nationalism existed - though not by that name otl, given the differences - before the revolutions. A much more moderate version of nationalism, more or less.

So, there's still going to be "Canadians" and whatnot - just more moderated versions. Basically, I'd expect most countries would act like most otl Canadians in that sense.

That being said, with nationalism more muted, the idea for imperial federations would be more plausible than it was otl.

The preferred title for Canada otl - rather than not having one, like otl - was "Kingdom of Canada." It was decided not to use it for fear of offending the USA. Silly, but true. With no unified USA, that's not an issue. So, it has Kingdom in the name as a result. Note, as well, that dominion status would be delayed from otl at least a decade. By my guess, this may have been the original intention.

Lordganon (talk) 11:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Warring Discussions.
NuclearVacuum, the photos I added to Two Americas Presidents of CSA, were more accurate than what were there before. Can we talk about this? -- Byzantium Purple

First, thank you BP for your work at an update. However, I am presently caretaker of this time line and it would  have been nice to ask on the talk page (as "Nuke" mentioned on your talk page).

Second, thank you Nuke for looking out for the page. By the time I got the messages that changes had been made, you had taken care of the "problem." I must admit that I went the easy way, chosing the pictures on each of my choices' Wikipedia pages. I will go back and evaluate the pictures now, based on the objections BP brought up. SouthWriter (talk) 03:47, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Otl Presidents in 13 Fallen Stars
Couldn't help seeing the "unknowns" on your list a few days ago - after, of course, having noticed it before and forgotten - and figured I'd have a look.

So....

Hoover - On his father's side, atl western PA, moving there (mostly) from Maryland, with a small contribution from western NC. On his mother's, PA with a small amount of NE, immigrating through Canada. If anything, I figure it'd be PA otl.

Truman - both sides of his family were, prior to moving to Missouri, almost entirely KY and VA. So, Virginia atl.

Eisenhower - May have been born in Texas otl, but his family has very long-standing roots in western PA otl. Would be there atl.

Johnson - Seems that his ancestors moved westwards from Georgia and the Carolinas, only heading to Texas when his grandfather did, moving there from Alabama. Would be Carolina atl.

Ford - Father's family from western PA, very long-standing. Mother's family, mostly from Ohio after moving here from NY and NE, with one Scottish immigrant. If anything, would be PA atl.

Reagan - Both sides of his family were from Illinois, with their ancestors having moved there from the British Isles through Canada. Canada atl would be very likely.

Clinton - Family on both sides from atl Carolina. More or less every state. both atl and otl. Would be from there, then.

Obama - his mother's family seems to have been largely Virginian in origin, but definitively with a bit from all the colonies. Would be, then, Virginia if anything.

Hope that's helpful to you.

Lordganon (talk) 11:40, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Good researcher, is all. Aside from Johnson, all of those presidents have reasonable trees out there - just have to find them.

Virginia would probably get rid of it not from from its otl abolition in the US. maybe a decade later, at most.

Carolina... not so good. They'd probably bow to pressure around the same time as Brazil.

Read through your "muse" on the subject, with regards to Lincoln and Virginia. Lincoln's family would likely have moved to Virginian territories west of Kentucky. I'd actually bet on a more abolitionist - someone with Lincoln's views, or nearly so, and he was very moderate on the concept, remember - president getting elected and a pro-slavery revolt happening. Lee and many Virginians from even otl Virginia would stick with the government, and Lee putting down the revolt would make sense. Losers would flee into Carolina. Would get Lee the presidency. The areas in question, by and large, would be east of the mountains, south of Richmond, and west of Norfolk, with scattered groups elsewhere.

Apologies about missing the last post. You called it, basically - too many people posting while I was busy and I missed one. Shame it was actually one I'd have enjoyed dealing with.

Yes, most wanted Canada to be actually named the Kingdom of Canada. There was less support for that idea in the other dominions, but I've no doubt that with a Canadian precedent, they'd be named that too, since that is how it more or less was otl. Would be much the same in Spanish colonies, though not for the same reasons - would be from the top, rather than the bottom, in that case.

Your idea is more or less equal to the one extreme of suggestions about what such a thing would be. But it's really not that workable - areas would feel shortchanged, and it's be too much of a geographic area, spread-wise, with different concerns.

Something akin to what they've been trying to get the EU to become - i.e. states still separate, but with an overarching government responsible in some areas - would be likely.

You're right about the makeup, by and large - for a long time, it'd only be the settler dominions included. That being said, India - the colony of India, including other otl countries - would be included in that. Special case. Eventually, however, the other colonies - likely starting with small ones on the edges, like in Asia or the ed. - would get added, though far better than in otl.

Lordganon (talk) 06:41, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice that - it just ended up being something that I felt like doing, so I did it, lol.

Really, slavery itself wasn't really all that common in Spanish territories. Not that the system in place was much better, but better it was. It's not going to be more widespread.

Not abolition itself, but the fear of it. Only a small number of counties in areas that are in westernmost atl Virginia voted for Lincoln or Fremont, with only a single one having a slight plurality for Breckinridge. Most of them went for Douglas. Basically, something akin to Douglas' position on the matter would be favored - not abolitionism. Which is also something kinda akin to what Bell wanted.

And given that the votes otl probably wouldn't be all that different atl, you'd have a majority in atl Virginia in favor of it. If they elect someone of that stripe, the hard-core slaveowners will revolt. The region between the mountains and the coastal counties will be up in arms, with the counties nearest Carolina being the worst.

Overall, yes, it is very workable. Won't be an attempt at secession, mind - just a revolt. Their motivation? They'd figure that by taking Richmond, they'd get their way. They wouldn't manage it, but... there'd certainly be a scare.

Yes, the otl Netherlands is a very good comparison. This atl one would, mind, have a touch more power internationally for each member.

Really, the counties of the UK are merely ceremonial, and have been for a long time. They'd stay under the UK banner. Ireland... actually, if done soon enough, the Irish may find this arrangement good enough. The federation itself would arise, most likely, from people in atl Canada desiring more say in things.

A British Patagonia, eh? Probably very doable. Not like the Spanish would put any effort into the area if they could avoid it at all.

Lordganon (talk) 07:23, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

The members of the Kingdom of the Netherlands otl don't have, really, any leeway to do foreign affairs. The members of your federation would have a small amount. Distance and different local situations mean that it's got to be the case. The Netherlands otl, as it currently stands, is too new for this to be an issue, but it's going to arise to some degree at some point.

Have a look into early foreign activities of Canada, before WWI, for more of what I'm meaning.

Lordganon (talk) 06:24, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Technology really wouldn't matter too much in that regard. I suspect that it'd actually make it worse. Overall, I suspect that regional differences would eventually lead to more independence for each part. The parts would be more unified overall, if that helps.

Most of the Australian colonies would still join together. Common interests, etc.

That being said, Western Australia, and New Zealand, would join separately. Western Australia almost did that otl, actually. Have to disagree about the culture, though - there was differences between New Zealand and the other colonies.

The current countries bit with the Netherlands is more what I was meaning as to how it would be organized.

Federal states - like the federations first established otl in Africa - would probably be what starts atl. If for no other reason than to keep the "whites" in charge of the imperial federation. Doubt that'd last, of course.

To work, this federation would have to be set up more or less when the first colony wants it. Canada would be the one, and it'd be the 1870s or so. If it's not done right away, it wouldn't be accepted.

The Spanish claims were more or less bluffs. A lot of that was controlled in some form by other powers. I have to doubt the French would agree to give up more land than in otl, too.

Actually, in most cases, Prussia probably would take the place of Germany. Not all, of course - their expansion would not get to the Pacific, for instance - but a fair amount of their African colonies probably would be. Southwest Africa probably still falls to them, along with either Togoland or parts of Cameroon. Whatever it is, it would not be as much as otl Germany. Less power/influence, and desire. But the ones behind the expansion to colonies should still be in Prussia atl.

NN really wouldn't get Togoland either way. Whatever colonies don't exist atl in West Africa would, realistically, be split between the Brits and French. Eastern Africa to the Brits.

Lordganon (talk) 10:26, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

I meant that each of the parts - i.e. Canada, Australia, etc. - would be more unified than in otl. The divisions into provinces or whatnot would still exist, but they'd have far less power.

Nuke, unless something like this is established right off the bat, it's just not going to work. If it isn't, then each colony has some time - like in otl - to be to itself. After that, you're trying to take away their independence, as little as they had otl and would have atl. Not happening, then. That was a major part of the problem otl. If it helps, this was a position advocated by a minority prior to Confederation otl. With no USA, the idea would have more traction.

Yes, if WA is separate at the start, it won't join the rest of the continent.

Nothing is pointless, Nuke. Just about anything is always worth some consideration.

Lordganon (talk) 10:43, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

In comparison to otl, yes, it would be. The divisions would be more akin to those in France. In France, they have some roles, but not many, and are responsible to the overall state for their funding. Not quite like that here, but in the same range of powers. They'd obviously have a few more, and the ability to tax to some degree, but something similar overall.

True, I've been more using it for simplicity's sake, but it'd at least refer to otl Ontario, Quebec, and the "Northwest Territory" atl. The so-called "United Province of Canada" predates the PoD, after all, in many ways.

To be realistic, the Metis wouldn't be involved here until later on - hence, Assiniboia. And thinking on it, the Atlantic Provinces would be divided into Nova Scotia and Newfoundland anyways.

More unification, a tiny bit more authority over themselves, but still very under the crown. There was a fair amount of support for it otl. Really, pretty much everyone wanted that. But the US next door ensured that the otl result occurred.

I figure that the colonies - Canada, Australia, etc. - would have something of a cross between the government of the United Province of Canada and Canada after Confederation.

Lordganon (talk) 04:31, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's more or less what I meant for Australia.

I actually meant how France is divided up otl - and it's not quite as unitary as you may think.

The Rest of BNA would be separate. Be a lot of little chunks, overall.

The Maritimes have always been in favor of the idea of joining together to some degree. Not a bad way to put it.

A comment on the recent version of the ACW comparison in 13 - Lincoln really wasn't an abolitionist otl. Being opposed to something, and wanting an immediate end to it, are different things. Really, the proclamation was more of a weapon against the Confederacy rather than a social move on his part. Now, I'm not saying that he wouldn't be viewed like that in some ways atl - after all, the south did it otl as well, even when he said (repeatedly) that he would not abolish it. In Virginia atl, he'd be a touch more conservative on the matter, I'm sure. The election would be reasonably close, but I'm sure he'd be able to win. Lee as someone to follow him in the role, and getting some sort of gradual program into place, would be very logical. After all, it'd be some Lincoln - atl, and prior to the war otl - would have approved of.

Lordganon (talk) 13:10, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Disney (13 Fallen Stars)
I was thinking that it was possible that Walt Disney was born in Canada in 13 Fallen Stars. His Dad Elias was born in Ontario and his mom was born in Ohio. Could that result in Canadian Disney parks? I like thinking about alternate pop culture because it has a hand in shaping the world. -Yank 03:57, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I just realized that Disney's parents getting together would be a stretch. I still think a Disney-analog would arise somewhere. Could this Disney-analog come from either Britain or one of the wealthier American nations? --Yank 04:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'd have the Disney park in either OTL Gary, Indiana or Detroit. The presence of one of these parks is a major financial boon for the host city, and would save either from the economic collapse they suffer OTL. Something like 2/3 of Detroit is completely abandoned, and that's just too bad. --Yank 04:40, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Divided Japan
Do you still update the Divided Japan TL?

General tiu (talk) 04:17, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

.svg
Hey, quick question. How do you save .svg files on your computer? Do you select all files when saving and then add .svg as the extension?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:06, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you helped. And for the record, I use PC. (Mostly.)

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 01:39, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering...
If you would ever have problems with good quality .png flags (resolution of 2000 x whatever) for countries? Like a 2000px x 1333px resolution for a British flag? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:17, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

That's ok then, cause I prefer .png to anything else!! :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:48, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Categories
Sorry about that. I'll try to remember that. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 18:11, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Virginia and Liberia
Overall, I think it looks pretty good. Lee's plans are the gradual program, more or less, that many advocated otl, and he'd have Lincoln's backing for basically the entire thing. Heck, Lincoln advocated such things otl.

Though, given things, the rebellion wouldn't last near as long as in otl. Basically all of the advantages the north had otl would be held by the Virginian government, and on a greater scale. Nor is there any way the Brits would dream of supporting the rebels.

Lincoln in 1864 would be probable, I figure, for his election. The VP choice of his party in 1860, as well, though I imagine they'd lose. I would expect only one term, with him being "offed" during it, and his VP not running, opening the path for Lee.

Liberia would really have been a Virginian protectorate already, outright or technically. Virginians did found it, after all. I imagine that atl, this would be made far more formal after Lee's election.

Lordganon (talk) 07:55, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

His odds of being killed probably go up, truth be told. More potential for people to be mad. That being said, the war would also be shorter, so less time for bad feelings.

The positions you have Lee advocating were actually what Lincoln advocated otl until a couple years into the war.

More accurately, I suspect, unlike otl, where the Brits more or less ignored it, atl the rebelling side would get a very emphatic no.

It remained a series of settlements until quite a while after the founding of Liberia, actually.

By my guess, without Northern influences, and it remaining more or less a Virginian organization, the founders of the Liberia colonies would stay in charge. Most of the black colonists would be from Virginia too, with a small amount from Maryland and Pennsylvania (Read: Delaware) joining them. I suspect that a protectorate would be far more likely than in otl, if for no other reason than there being no "northern" influence.

Lordganon (talk) 11:34, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Soviet Spain
So, I had this crazy idea last night. What with Spain--wait, I should mention that this is for my timeline first--anyways, so Spain is ruled by Bonapartes. I figure that a sizeable proportion of the population would be hating on them. Then, like I said, I had a crazy idea. I took the Bolshevik Revolt out of a stable Russia and put it into plagued Spain, overthrowing the King to form the USSS, which the analogue to the USSR. However, the USSS does not become a superpower and collapses after Francisco Franco (Stalin) dies in 1975.

Thoughts?

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:16, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Communism is a weak force ATL, originating from South America, with people like Engels and Marx being lost in the worlds of other ideologies.

Given that, you are correct, the revolution is planned in the middle of WWI (WWIV in this case), in 1913 (WWI is four years earlier in every aspect.).

This USSS is basically following a Nazi view on the world--national socialist.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 20:59, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. This is Francoist Spain on a path akin to the USSR/Nazi Germany.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 21:56, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

OK, wait, I think we're both confused again. It's the Russian Revolution translated into Spain, with Franco being Lenin/Stalin and the people being fascists instead of commies. I was just asking if it was possible to pull off such a power shift with fascism.

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 22:30, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Manchurian Ruble


I am also in process of creating more of the currency.

Satisfied or I will create more? -- General tiu (talk) 15:39, January 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you still see it?

National Anthems (Russian America)
The Uyghur SSR may get a commie version of its anthem, same as the OTL version by the Uyghur separatists in China, but with a twist...

Qozghal, oyghan, ey xelqim qulluqni tashla, Jengler bilen hayatni yingidin bashla. Zulmatlar astida alembexsh Uyghuristan, Xelqimizning közidin aqti qan-yashlar

CHORUS: Qozghal, birlesh, qozghal, birlesh, Qozghal; almaq Lenin elem.

2. Qozghal, qutqaz; zulumda ingrighan elni, Jangha patti bu zulum kütme ejelni. Gerche dushmen ejdihardel bolsimu surluk, Peqet birlik qutquzar Eziz Watanni.

Chorus

3. Qozghal, atlan ey uluq Oghuz evladi, Bizge medettur herzaman kök böre rohi. Shihitler azusi tinimizde qan, Kar qilalmas hchiqachan dushmenler qesti.

Chorus

4. Qozghal, qozghal, ey uluq Uyghurum qozghal, Hörluk uchun cheng qilmaq bizdiki arman. Ömid kütme hichkimdin ömid özimir, Dilimizda iman bar kommunizm derman.

Chorus

English translation 1. O my people rise up, release slavery start your life again by quarreling Under the persecution great Uyghuristan Blood and tears stream on my people's eye

CHORUS: Stand together, stand together Get up, carry Lenin's banner!

2. Get up, recover howling at hands of the tyranny. Don't wait the fate, this cruelty hurts us Although the enemy is like a disgusting dragon Only being unity will save the beloved homeland.

Chorus

3. Get up! move along, O generation of the Oghuz Han Born brave, all of our generation is wrestler. The desire of the martyrs is blood on our forehead The aim of enemy can't never profit

Chorus

4. Get up! Get up! O my great Uyghur get up! Quarrel for freedom is our desire Don't wait hope from noone, hope is ourselves faith exists in our language, Communism is cure

Chorus

Someone in DeviantArt, [you know whom ;)] had translated and edited this anthem...

Mongolia as an SSR is no objection in having a national anthem as the Mongol SSR; the OTL version is Stalinist enough to be incorporated.

It is the Manchu anthem that I have a problem...

I have the OTL version, the Manchukuo anthem used in 1933-42, used as music. The problem is that the composer is Japanese, but in fairness the guy named Kosaku Yamada, whose Czech-sounding alternate name Kósçak was a good composer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosaku_Yamada

I have a lyrics modified to Stalinize it...

(Now) there is the new Manchuria on Earth, and the new Manchuria is our new land. Let us make our country to be steadfast and free of sadness, with only love and no hate. Forty million people, Forty million people, at ten times more we should still be free. With the Party as guide, rectified am I; with Lenin as a teacher and Stalin as a hero, there are nothing I want. For now, may we assimilate with the world; for the future, may we follow the ways of Russia and the World.

As you know, I had to find again Manchu-language dictionaries out there, or Manchu language experts who can translate.

The alternate solution is that the Manchurian anthem in Russian Anthem is OTL the music for the North Korean anthem.

General tiu (talk) 05:32, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Denendeh
Doing well enough. Yourself?

Nuke, I don't mind you bringing up topics again - you don't repeat the same things when you do it. You only bring topics up again when you find new things out. Believe me, that is very refreshing.

In the era when any such adding would occur, there's almost no population in Rupert's Land besides the natives. Alaska would actually be the most settled part.

The railroad otl didn't have as much motivation from the US as most think - the area needed to be settled, and the best way to do it was to build the railroad. The financing mostly came from Britain, and the eastern US - both of which would still be involved.

The reasons for people in otl Ontario/Quebec supporting the railway otl would actually still exist atl. Economically, they'd still be the source of goods, workers, etc. for the region like in otl.

Yes, Australia did take until the 1910s to build their transcontinental railway. However, the reason for that is something you actually indicate - they could easily ship things by sea. With regards to inland North America, this is not the case - it must be land transport, with rail being the best option.

The settlers in Alaska at purchase were rather small in number - and them leaving has less to do with American pressure than most think. Yes, more would stay with the Brits in charge, but the majority will still leave. While the Americans' attitudes and behaviors did not help matters and convinced more to leave otl, a lot of the reason why they left was simply not wanting to live under the English. The Brits, probably being better behaved, would not get a bad reputation, quickly, but that's only a part of the picture.

The Doukhobor would probably not end up in Alaska - the climate would not be what they were used to, and they'd settle elsewhere, probably in Rupert's Land like atl. Remember, too, that these guys have no reason to like Russia/Russians - they'd likely prefer to stay away from them.

Yes, all those areas did "boom" from the gold rushes. Alaska, despite all going on at the time - two different "rushes" and the Klondike spillover too - did not see anywhere near the same population boost. And after the one at Nome started to end, you can see the fall, too.

There's a major difference between these areas, however - Alaska/Yukon is far more hostile to any would-be settlers, and a lot bigger. You can see this showing in the population dropping like it did - neither California, Colorado, or Western Australia had that problem, and their populations continued to rise. Compared to the Yukon, Alaska's population did better overall, obviously - but it's also on the ocean, and less of a harsh place, in addition to a far longer "rush."

California became a state a lot sooner than it would have, normally - gold rush aside, the population had grown so much since it was annexed in 1848 that it was reasonable for it to be admitted - its growth in the next decade attests to that. The climate also meant that many of these settlers would stay there - not the case in the north.

Alaska did become a state with a population like that, true - but the government also wanted its time as a colony to end, and a state would be easier to defend. If you go by population, it really wasn't ready for it like Hawaii was.

Western Australia wouldn't become its own dominion at the same time as the rest, Nuke - it would probably be a decade later, at least. The population increase in that span would do it. Note, too, that it's also a good location for people to settle, and a far smaller area than Alaska.

British Columbia would have been kept as a separate colony - indeed, there would have been colonies there with a fair population long before the HBC did anything at all like otl in Rupert's Land, or Alaska was sold, and in a much more concentrated area. With areas south of there attached, of course.

Borealia would be split into divisions much like the other dominions. Simple size means that there has to be something installed, and the Gold Rushes would further this. Note, again, that the railway would be put in much like otl, not in the 1910s.

Alaska would just get tacked on to the other colonies in that area. There's not really much reason for it to be by itself - after all, it's just a slightly more settled part of what amounts to wilderness, remember, at that point. By the time the gold gets found, the rest has been opened, and the railway across the continent built. Makes a lot of sense for it to stay there - and the Brits are no doubt smart enough to know that the increase in population won't last. Were otl, after all.

As for it joining Columbia... there'd be a major gap between them. Colony-wise, it makes far more sense to tack it onto the wilderness next door.

Lordganon (talk) 15:01, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Nuke, you can bring anything up anytime.

The Brits wouldn't be opposed to help from NN businessmen. Think of it this way - bankers in the the USA helped finance the railroad in western Canada otl, and NN is on much better terms with the Brits than the Americans were.

The railroad, if built, would also be globally significant. Think about it - it would drastically cut down travel times between the two oceans, on a more northern level than the railway through Panama. Wouldn't be as much of a hurry to get it built, or build it from coast to coast, atl either.

Yes, the railroad would matter more in the area than most would think. Understand where you're coming from, of course.

The Delaware/Pennsylvania note looks good, btw.

Lordganon (talk) 11:17, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

New Manchu SSR CoA!
I used the emblem of the Chinese Soviet Republic as a base.

General tiu (talk) 22:06, February 6, 2013 (UTC)



Coat of Arms
I searched Google for online Uyghur dictionaries. Thank goodness there is one. There is an Uyghur Cyrillic alphabet developed in the Soviet Union, OTL. I guess in Russian America the Uyghurs use it officially. I also had to copypaste a lot from other CoAs like the Communist Afghan CoA, the Hungarian Communist CoA, and the emblem of the Indonesian Parliament because merely of the cotton wreath; I assume cotton would be a good representative of the Uyghur SSR.

Manchu is a different story altogether. Not only there is no Cyrillic alphabet, I even had to borrow the proposed Cyrillic Xibe alphabet devised in China in the 1950s. Xibe is a Manchu dialect so it is fair to adopt it. I went to anakv.com and found a Manchu-Chinese-English glossary. It helped a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibe_language

Here's the Xibe language alphabet in Cyrillic:

Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Ғғ, Дд, Ее, Ёё, Жж, Җҗ, Зз, Ии, Йй, Кк, Ққ, Лл, Мм, Нн, Ңң, Оо, Өө, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Үү, Фф, Хх, Ҳҳ, Цц, Чч, Шш, ы, Яя, ь.

In Manchu, I added the letter  Ў.

The Chinese remaining in Uyghuristan and Manchuria will be forced to use Cyrillic. The Soviets are too tired and confused with the Chinese. But after the fall, the Soviets eventually let the Chinese there to use their script again. There are two ways to do it.

One is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_language

The other is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese

The Koreans in the Soviet Union will get an ASSR in Manchuria. That is the OTL Yanbian region in China, ehem, Manchuria. They will still use Korean hangul, but the transliteration is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Korean

You could also contact this guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:%C5%A0olon He's a Manchu-Chinese-American in the US Army. He speaks a decent amount of Manchu.

I hope you could correct and make the post-Soviet Versions...

And I am trying to edit the song Alaska's Flag to make it more like the Alaskan flag in Russian America.

Here's the OTL version:

Eight stars of gold on a field of blue — Alaska's flag. May it mean to you The blue of the sea, the evening sky, The mountain lakes, and the flow'rs nearby; The gold of the early sourdough's dreams, The precious gold of the hills and streams; The brilliant stars in the northern sky, The "Bear," the "Dipper," and, shining high, The great North Star with its steady light, O'er land and sea a beacon bright. Alaska's flag — to Alaskans dear, The simple flag of a last frontier.

My version is this:

Eighteen stars of white on a field of colors — Alaska's flag. May it mean to you The blue of the sea, the evening sky, The mountain lakes, and the flowers nearby; The red of the sacrifice of our heroes, The blood that bonds Alaska's fate; The white of the mountaintops, The snow that covers our land. The great eighteen stars our guide and light, Over land and sea a beacon bright. Alaska's flag — to Alaskans dear, The simple flag of a last frontier.

General tiu (talk) 22:15, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

13FS PoD
Looks very good, Nuke. Lordganon (talk) 08:14, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Have to say - anyone white isn't going to go to Liberia. And most Africans would not, either - the colonists, and the resulting state, weren't looked on very favorably for most of history.

London may be a good spot for his parents to meet.

Virginia would have desegregated by today - I'd guess not too long after otl, actually. The courts that ruled against segregation otl actually had a few members that were born in what would be atl Virginia, even. Maryland probably around the same time.

Now, Carolina would still have it, of course.

Yeah, no way he leads Virginia. Could be a politician there, though.

Lordganon (talk) 13:45, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Lee would indeed do such a thing - the problem is, Obama's ancestors are either white, or Kenyan, so they would not go there. Slavery doesn't apply.

Segregation actually did not exist in Hawaii at the time, and never had. Like I said, though, would be very possible for his parents to meet elsewhere.

Yes, I believe it would still be in use in Carolina. Remember, a lot of why it ended otl was because of volunteers and funds from the north, which would not happen here. And without a government telling these southern states what to do.... they won't reverse it on their own. I doubt any outside states are going to be able to put pressure on them, either. The government, for that matter, could get away with putting down anything like MLK or whatnot violently, too.

Debate would probably be starting about abolishing it - and I'd guess that some areas (the more northern states of Carolina) would have already done so. But it'd still be law, I think. Heck, if they had their way today otl in the Deep South, it would still be law.

Lordganon (talk) 09:59, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

As I said, if they had their way, that'd still be the case otl. A lot of the things the area believes in are just disturbing.

Yeah, apartheid was easier to overcome for exactly that reason. Though, had the whites been a majority like in the American South, the black population would have either been deported, or been ignored, since as a minority, they would not have been near so much a threat.

Yeah, darkness like that can be appealing, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 02:47, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, he is definitely a case where the environment would change him from otl to some degree. That being said, he'd probably be on the more moderate side of things, still. However.... in pretty much any other country, that would make him merely right-wing, instead of a far-right nut.

I'm sure that some progress would occur - something like letting blacks serve in the military, or some such thing - but the situation would not change.

Yeah, Wallace would definitely be the leader of Carolina for a while. And he should scare you. Shame that the views he preached are still the norm in Alabama, and nearby states.

Lordganon (talk) 03:55, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Sad truth is, that they would be. Both Carter and Clinton would be from the southernmost areas, and with a primary political influence being Wallace... Things would be getting better, true enough, but they'd definitely not be Democrats atl. Remember that the Democrats, prior to the Depression, were the opposite in most ways of their current attitudes.

Gore would be better, if that helps - the majority of his ancestors are from Virginia or North Carolina, with the next largest batch being from New Jersey. You could easily argue he's Virginian atl, or from the more moderate areas of Carolina.

Bush atl would be more or less like his grandfather was otl. With a lot of the same mannerisms, of course, but different opinions.

Up until the last few decades, Florida was like the rest of the south, politically. This holds far more the case for the 1800s. New Netherland would have no reason to do that, the inhabitants wouldn't go for it, and much like otl, there'd already be a large amount of settlers from Georgia and the Carolinas in the area.

Lordganon (talk) 05:26, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

...Didn't say anything about Wallace being Virginian. What I said was that Al Gore would most likely be, with Carolina (the more reasonable northern areas) being a second choice.

Yeah, I knew the bits about Bush and Florida were jokes, lol - figured I'd comment anyways :p

Lordganon (talk) 10:48, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Far as I can tell, most of his ancestors are from Virginia, so it's likely he'd be from there atl. Most of the rest seem to be from nearby areas of North Carolina, which would lend to it too.

Oh? Do tell.

Lordganon (talk) 12:13, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, he was born in DC while his father was in Congress. Heck, on that same note, I'd say that he'd be born in Richmond under similar circumstances atl.

Wouldn't see southerners moving there like northerners otl - the climate is really no different.

Funny, but I did know that about Florida and cattle. Bet most people don't, mind.

Yes, it would be more like Texas than in otl. And it being a bit of a "refuge" for freed blacks sounds about right, too.

Looks good, overall.

Lordganon (talk) 07:51, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Electoral map for Chile
Hi Nuc! How are you? hope fine :) I want to know if you can help me please with a electoral map for Chile. I need a map similar to for my timeline Chile No Socialista, but where Chile has annexed territories from Argentina, Perú and Bolivia. I have been working in this new territories, establishing the possible limits of the new provinces and communes. You could do it, please? But if you are very busy, there is no problem, of course. Thanks and regards! --Katholico (talk) 20:09, February 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your disposition Nuc :D
 * Well, in fact, by the moment only need the map in blank (I forgot say that xD), I need work more in the possible results in each commune and in each election.
 * About the new territories, here is the maps: I use an BLUE line for show the division between the new communes. But in some areas I put a name in red, for show that this territory is annexed to a OTL chilean commune.


 * Aysén Region
 * Patagonia
 * East Tierra del Fuego
 * Jujuy-Salta
 * Catamarca
 * Bolivia
 * Chile also annexed the, but in this case the provinces remain the same.
 * Please tell me if something is no clear XD Thanks again!!! :D Regards! --Katholico (talk) 00:25, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry about that problem (I didn't know that) :(
 * But about your question, yes, i want a map showing all of Chile's communes, including the new ones. I hope your can resolve this without many problems, I don't want to complicate you in excess. Thanks for your help again ^^U Any other thing just tell me. Regards! --Katholico (talk) 02:55, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear that :D
 * About the map, the answer is no :P That map was the original that i made when I began with the South American War... gradually I did changes to him, reducing the territories annexed (was my first years in the Alternative History world :P). A map more accurate for today is this, but still have imprecisions in some areas. Now that i has been working in the different elections in Chile came to me the need to have a more specific map of the country. Regards! --Katholico (talk) 03:33, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sure, tomorrow is fine. Thanks :)
 * mmm, good question. I think that is better that the map remain sideways. After all, if i want later, i can change the direction by myself, right? Regards --Katholico (talk) 03:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Each colour represent to an new commune. 5 colours, 5 communes :) Thanks!!! --Katholico (talk) 19:37, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep. That provinces are now commmunes. Regards! --Katholico (talk) 22:13, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wow, Nice job Nuc!! I really liked the map!! :D Thank you very much!!! No problem that be a vector file. I think that i can change it to a .PNG to edit it easier. I will show the map to a friend which collaborate with me in CNS for be sure that all is fine. :) Any thing I will say you. Thanks again!!!! ^^ Regards! --Katholico (talk) 03:32, February 12, 2013 (UTC)




 * Nuc, we have a problem D: But is all my fault. I forgot to mention one limit more located between Los Lagos Region and Chubut. In this case the OTL communes of Hualaihué and Futaleufú annexed the new territories. Sorry, I don't know how I forgot this part :( I hope you don't have more problems adding this. Regards --Katholico (talk) 15:14, February 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * OK :) Katholico (talk) 05:13, February 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi! It's me again XD You added the territory that I missed? xD Regards! --Katholico (talk) 18:32, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, of course no ^^ Just i asked because maybe i need the map updated today XD Regards! --Katholico (talk) 18:49, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I downloaded the Inkscape program, but I have not had the time for install and to use XD But if can upload a PNG file of the map that will be excelent! :D Thanks and Regards! --Katholico (talk) 20:53, February 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much Nuc. No problem about it :) Regards! --Katholico (talk) 16:46, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sports Teams in Russian America
I wonder what would the sports teams in Alaska would look like? I think Mexico will be involved in the Four Major Professional Leagues, so is Alaska.

I think the center of Alaska's sports team would be either Seattle or New Westminister.

General tiu (talk) 20:52, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I suck at sports anyway, even in the one game I can "competently" play: basketball. Most of us from the Philippines didn't like other team sports [until soccer came along recently], but that was just asking.

I wonder if Igor Sikorsky would go to Alaska instead of the United States. He may stop over America at first, but later moved to Alaska when the situation was now secure there, feeling he had more affinity with the Russian settlers there than with the Americans, and want to help the supposedly fledgeling Alaskan aeronautics industry there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Sikorsky

General tiu (talk) 02:54, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Sevastopol
Trying to find a good image of Sevastopol or some other Russian city that would pass for it. Got anything?

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  03:45, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry if I confused you. I'm talking about the city of. I'm trying to find a good image of the city, and I was wondering if you could help me. I've only found buildings and streets so far. Do you think another seaside city could pass for it in an ATL?

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:17, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm... Well, I do suppose that finding a skyline would be hard. Meh.

Thanks anyways.

                "Fear the power    of the Dark Side of the Force."  04:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Russian America again...
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270272

I guess you explain to them how Russia had successfully colonized Alaska and at least Northern California.

I am also thinking of editing the OTL Canadian Coat of Arms to make it resemble the Acadian Coat of Arms, probably putting the arms of the six provinces of Acadia together, but the Canadian CoA is copyrighted by the Canadian Government and I am in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Canada.svg

General tiu (talk) 18:47, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Decision?
Are you concluding on rejecting my offer for the Presidential election page? I know that it was rude of me to place it on without approval, but if it is rejected, I'd rather remove my offer so I don't bother you any further.

Now, if it is worth anything to know:

I selected the idea of a run-off (while understanding and respecting LG's point about not needing a run-off) due to the POTSU's page as to Ryzhkov apparently winning 2/3 of the vote. However, I chose the run-off because a run-off between Ryzhkov and Bukovsky counted for 3/5 of the hole vote, but Ryzhkov accounted for 33.2% (meaning that 33.1/60.0 = 55.16, rounded to 55.2% as the result for Ryzhkov).

As for the Elected/Defeated colors, I just wanted to add something colorful. Initially, it was supposed to be an Elected/Defeated/Disqualified measure, but I didn't know how to merge some of the cells (Forgive Me).

And, as for the description of the election, it was mainly worded to follow the POTSU page with each different party in the first round and the Communist Party endorsing Ryzhkov in the runoff. I placed Yakovlev as more of the same fashion that the P-eOTUS selects cabinet members: announcing the election during the transition and inaugurating them on the same/nearest day that the President is inaugurated.

I sincerely hope that you will forgive me for jumping the gun on the page. Before, I did consider on working the election for 10 years after the 1995 election. However, I will wait for your permission on the 2005 page (I'd like to talk about candidates against Tereshkova as well). And you may take your time on accepting or denying my proposals, but please tell me that you will consider it.

ALibertarianModerate95 (talk) 21:46, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

PNG to SVG
Do you happen to know of any programs that could convert PNGs to SVGs? I got Inkscape and went as far to try using Illustrator at another computer, but I fail miserably at using those. Inkscape doesn't even open up on my computer.

<span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  00:48, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oh no, I believe that I have given you the wrong impression. I have taken a favor to SVG files as the background can change to any color. In fact, the files in question are for work I have off-wiki. All the files I downloaded were SVG, but the ones I made are in PNG are retaining their white background on the black-colored wiki. (You can see this at this link: http://anycs.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WikiActivity)

Meh. I'll probably end up going out of my way to solve the problem.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:03, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I know you like New York, lol.

Anyways, thanks for the help. I'll inform you if I come with something.

Also, I think you are only getting on the nerves of those who do not understand why their files are being deleted (the reason being duplication). Other than that, I think it's a fair notification and that it keeps the wiki more organized and neat.

<span style="-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFFFFF 50%,#FFFFFF 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(#FFD700 50%,#000000 50%));"><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:1px;-webkit-border-radius: 1px 1px;-moz-border-radius: 1px / 1px;-webkit-box-shadow: 1px 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.6);background-image:-webkit-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#1C39BB 45%,#120A8F 50%);background:-moz-repeating-radial-gradient(ellipse,#CCCCFF 45%,#000000 50%));border-top-left-radius:500px 400px;border-bottom-left-radius:500px 400px">               <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, right top, left top, from(#000000), to(#FFFFFF)); -webkit-border-radius: 36px 12px; -moz-border-radius: 36px / 12px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 5px 5px #000000; border:2px double #E5E4E2 border-radius:5px; border-bottom-right-radius:100px 90px; border-top-right-radius:100px 90px; color:#FFFFFF"> <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier">"Fear the power   <font color="#FF033E" face="Courier" title="Bvlog"> of the Dark Side of the Force."  05:10, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

My computer desktop can not process SVGs on its desktop. I really want to add new photos from wikimedia and I want it to have the right name. Octivian Marius (talk) 18:20, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

SA in 13
Sorry I took so long to get back to you - things have been really hairy the last couple weeks. Family drama, and lots of it.

Yes, the Cape Colony staying Dutch makes sense.

The Boers really would not exist. Really, without the Brits in power, virtually none of their reasons for leaving would have existed. Centralization isn't one, either. Really, they would not care about that.

That being said, the Dutch colony is going to have the majority of the otl OFS in its territory. It wasn't very far off that when the Brits took over otl.

South Africa would, by and large, get split between the Cape colony and Natal. I'd expect the otl Boer states, minus the western two thirds or so of the OFS, would go to the Brits, along with parts of their otl colonies north of there. The Portuguese are going to have larger colonies than otl.

Lordganon (talk) 11:43, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, doing fine. Just have had a lot of other things taking up my time, you know?

Yes, the Boers were indeed mostly semi-nomadic. But, really they didn't have a problem with authority - just with British authority. The Brits attempted to hurt their culture, take away/ban the small numbers of slaves, make the Boers and the black population equal, and above all that, instituted "Anglicization" policies. While the Dutch would have done the second and third at some point, the first and last would not have been the case. In many ways, it was the last one that made them leave.

The two other factors for their move - a perceived lack of land, and fighting with the Xhosa - are easily rectified by simple expansion like the USA did. Them moving otl is more comparable to the Mormons going to Utah, had it not been part of any nation at the time, than the expansion of the American frontier.

It's not a stupid idea, Nuke, at all. Very workable if you remove the Boer republics from the picture.

Lordganon (talk) 08:15, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Really, almost none of the Boers owned slaves - it was pretty much a non-issue. For that matter, slavery was actually banned in their republics.

Basically, without the Brits being in charge, none of the reasons for the trek exist. It's not going to happen.

No more armed than any other frontier society, actually. The difference was far more their experience with warfare, and surprise, that let them do so well otl. The Brits also didn't really try in the first war.

Now, the Dutch may well set up some sort of separate administration further inland. Brits did it there otl, so it makes sense for the Dutch to do it atl. But it'd be nothing like the otl settlers.

Lordganon (talk) 09:45, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Apology
Oh, I'm really sorry. I'll try to upload the files in SVG format. FirstStooge (talk) 04:18, February 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much :) FirstStooge (talk) 04:29, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Duplicates
Something went wrong with whatever you tried to post on my talk page, but I know what you were going to put. Sorry for the duplicates, I did use the search but it isn't the best. TheB (talk) 21:17, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh thanks, I made an incorrect assumption! No need to worry.

I presume the error I made with format was to upload it as PNG as oppossed to SVG. What exactly was the labelling error I made? TheB (talk) 19:00, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

I see, thanks. I'll follow that in future.

Also (sorry to keep asking questions), is it acceptable to add animated gif maps? The sort that show border progression. TheB (talk) 19:52, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice. I shall try it out. TheB (talk) 16:57, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Map games
Hey, do you want to join my map game Axis vs Allies The Last Round (Map Game)?

DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It

Timeline question
Hey, sorry to bother you, but when I get further along in my timeline, could you give me some feedback on how plausible my history progression is? --108.76.134.105

Hong Kong (13 Fallen Stars)
I have an idea about the potential British Dominion of Hong Kong. You could get two birds with one stone and say that the Dominion of Hong Kong is the name for the British slice of the China pie, which is currently not given any information other than it existing. What do you think about that? Yank 02:57, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

My ID is Jordan Chang. Nice to meet you. 203.186.96.85 04:48, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Russia in 13
Well, first off, I can definitely say that revolution in Russia was not inevitable. Once it got to the 1890s otl? Maybe. But, overall? Not in the least.

With no French Revolution, and such an example of the "excesses" of liberalism like otl, the Russian nobility would be not have been so opposed to the concept.

And, for that matter, the American Revolution would, in many ways, be seen as a failure of the concept.

Unlike otl, the Russian nobility would probably be more accepting of the concept of reforms, over time. The Empire would, really, probably not fall.

Main rival of the Brits? Probably. But a republic, not likely.

Eastern Europe would be aligned to Russia still, mind.

Any pseudo-Cold War would not be between ideologies - it'd be just between the two governments, ala~ the Great Game of otl.

And about the rest of the new stuff...

I really have to say, a Canadian Republic isn't going to happen here. Not only is the only example largely a failure, but they'd also have little to no outside support - and no hope of getting more, like they did otl. Really, the English wouldn't even try to revolt, in my opinion, let alone win.

Cuba and the Philippines wouldn't stay Spanish territories. For that matter, I'd even say that Carolina would support Cuban rebels more than the US otl, though they'd not annex it.

Lordganon (talk) 12:29, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Quite frankly, until I looked at the Russia info and saw the Canada Republic section under it, I had never seen it before. That is the first mention of it being a republic borne out of that revolt that I've seen. Nothing in our other discussions has mentioned that, which had I known before, may have changed other answers I had given you. Don't appreciate having a message crossed out, either. Lordganon (talk) 09:47, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

...Used it for simplicity because "Canada" really didn't exist at that point in history. Not atl, but otl. Better to use one word to describe the area than several, after all. You used "not exist within" to describe it, rather than "not part of" which goes along with it not existing yet, like I'd said a few times before that :p Meh.

Hmmmm....

Well, however it would happen, it'd start with settlers from the American nations in the otl Northwestern Territory. There's no way they'd get the support in otl Ontario for it to happen there - I cannot begin to understate just how low support was for the Rebellions, overall. Independence in that way would more or less kill the whole area remaining a unitary state, too. At the very least otl Quebec splits. The American nations would have to support the whole thing, too, which probably hurts their relations with the Brits for a while.

Have to think some about how this, overall, changes previous advice I've given.

Lordganon (talk) 09:57, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, with the number of loyalists, it was inevitable that it would happen anyway. And, given the timing of it versus your PoD, be something unaffected by it.

Loyalists were a majority in a few areas, but by and large they were the minority.

New England colonists, however, would be pro-Britain. Yes, some Pennsylvanians and Virginians would settle in the Northwestern Territory - but they'd be outnumbered. That'd be about the same situation as in Ontario otl, though with a mildly higher proportion of Americans. Mackenzie would not have more support than in otl - probably less, really, given the lack of an American example.

Brits wouldn't let revolutionaries go to Quebec - nor would anyone from France be listened to there. The Quebecois have never been fond of French attitudes. Louisiana would work as a destination, though, for revolutionaries.

For some of the American states, it'd be in conflict of their interests to support such a movement. NE would probably actively oppose it, even. Really, such a state would be more of a threat to them than the Brits were, by that point.

Remember, NE wouldn't have needed the Brits to win that war - British involvement would have more been to get them to peace than anything.

The French government wouldn't support revolutionaries, some of whom tried to fight them in France, and the rest of whom hold such "violent" ideals. 13 Stars is a world where ideas like that would, by and large, get written off more often.

The Brits would probably have more of an ability than otl to fight off such revolts, too. No Napoleonic Wars, etc.

Not so much a failure of federalization as a failure of the American ideals in general. Federalization had had a long history in Europe, on varied levels, by that point, with some success.

Some sort of split of it into three states might work nicely.

Thinking about it, there's two things I've said that would change in light of a Canadian revolt. The Brits would be more willing to support the Virginian rebels, and Acadia would form earlier than Canada did otl. I expect, too, that the Brits would be less willing to cooperate with NN, if they support the rebels, in and around 1900.

Lordganon (talk) 10:26, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

My apologies, Nuke - I in no way intended to upset you.

Nuke, you do have good ideas. Don't ever try to convince yourself otherwise.

Lordganon (talk) 09:13, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Please upload the correct files
I had already noticed that you were cleaning up after me. The thing is that I don't seem to be able to save original .svg files from Wikipedia to my computer by right-clicking them. No problem with other extensions however, which is why I upload .png files with identical names for easy replacement. I've Googled a solution earlier, but didn't come across anything useful, so if you could tell me how to save .svg files? --XterrorX (talk) 16:15, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

I just successfully saved and uploaded a .svg flag with your instructions. I had tried Save Page As in Firefox earlier, but due to the Internet Explorer icon (and incompatibility with image viewers), I was under the impression that I saved the actual url and thus never made an attempt to upload it. Thanks for the explanation and my apologies for wasting the time you spent deleting and reuploading my files. --XterrorX (talk) 17:50, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I read on a forum somewhere that you need software by Adobe or other companies to open .svg files. I'll look into it, but for the moment I will just keep my edited flags and custom maps in .png format (for ease of editing in MS Paint) and Wikipedia imagery in their respective file types. --XterrorX (talk) 19:59, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Recommend New Union...
http://www.counter-factual.net/upload/showthread.php?t=18979

Well, they are looking for a surviving Soviet Union post-1945 that is a normal superpower? Well, you could recommend it to them...

General tiu (talk) 17:28, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Already done and replaced it with a different one.

General tiu (talk) 01:53, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Nuclear Weapons States in Russian America
I wonder in Russian America TL, which states have nuclear weapons? I guess this would be:

The US, Britain, France, Russia, detonated as in OTL, but with the US doing it in OTL Oklahoma. Japan does it in the Pacific in 1952. Alaska may have nuclear weapons, or not. Ditto with Mexico. China does not have as in OTL, due to role reversal, but it may be too big not to own such an arsenal, Japan may permit China to do so.

General tiu (talk) 02:09, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

"13" Louisiana
Figured that since you mentioned me, I'd slip you a note ;)

Looks really good.

Lordganon (talk) 03:16, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, finally getting back on the ball, so to speak. Hopefully nothing else goes wrong around here, lol

Yes, Canada would be its own entity.

Labrador.... well, I wouldn't quite say it goes to Newfoundland. Yes, it would be part of Newfoundland - but the extent of that, however, would be up for some degree of debate, I imagine. Have a look at this. Wouldn't be surprised if it was both more of an issue, and an earlier one, atl.

Lordganon (talk) 05:07, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it makes ideas "flow" better.

Figured you'd be aware of it - never hurts to make sure.

Basically, the border can be whatever you want - and some sort of treaty, or whatnot, like otl, would come up sooner than it did otl. There was - and, really, still is - a lot of dispute over it.

Just something to kinda "change it up" a bit if you want, you know?

Lordganon (talk) 08:33, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

"Bit" isn't a good enough word for that one, trust me. Though, not like those separatists have ever been all that bright.

By the time the Brits move in, the Dutch would probably be a bit further east than that. Not too much - maybe as far as where East London is otl.

I wouldn't expect the Dutch to actually go all that far into Botswana - much of the country is actually desert. Between the SA border at the Molopo River, and the Okavango Delta near Angola, there really isn't much. About as far north as I'd expect anything Dutch would be the 24th parallel. They'd move into otl Namibia, too - I'd call the parallel the northern border with the Portuguese, all over.

The border between the Brits and Dutch, I suspect would extend from the the Marico River, going mildly southeast, using the rivers. Mostly, these would be the upper tributaries of the Orange River. It would end at the ocean with the Great Kel River being the final part of the border.

The British border with the Portuguese I think would be further north in the east, and slightly south in the west, basically following the Limpopo. That southernmost area of Mozambique wasn't really settled until the latter half of the 1800s, after all.

Yes, a land corridor for the Portuguese would be likely here - railways, roads, etc. - would run through otl Zimbabwe, and then through northern Botswana and. That's an area between the desert and jungle. They'd probably end up with much of Zambia too.

Still have to say, though - the Dutch probably wouldn't split their colony up. Only reason the Brits did it was because charters inland were given to different people. More of an artificial construction than most of Africa - and you know how bad that problem is.

Throw me a blank version of that map and I'll draw up something like what I'm meaning.

Lordganon (talk) 04:04, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

But your maps are so much cleaner, lol - that lightening effect you do is useful for this work. I'll look into it, mind.

Look to the former half of that old statement instead of the latter - past that, I didn't really look at maps when I said that, which was an oversight on my part. Having looked at them and some geographic details, I have to say its just not all that feasible, especially with the Brits having the east like that.

Lordganon (talk) 04:47, March 15, 2013 (UTC)



Something more like that. Note, too, that I slipped Walvis Bay in there. Occurred to me that the Brits would probably scoop it up like in otl, for the same reasons.

Remember, most of Namibia is desert. Aside from the far north, only the coast is worth anything. It's like the arctic - yes, there's a lot of land, but most of it is worthless.

Were the area between the Dutch and Brits desert or some such thing, I'd agree that a line would make sense. But it's not - the land itself, and the need to worry about defenses, mean that that's really not ideal. Not impossible, of course - just not ideal. On a world map it really wouldn't be noticeable, if that helps.

Portuguese shouldn't mind too terribly - and if they did, they sure as heck wouldn't tell the Brits.

Lordganon (talk) 08:59, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Well done with the block - I extended it to a thousand years, make sure he doesn't come back. I figure that if he followed SS like that, a month is nothing to him.

Puerto Rico's not that big. And it's part of the US today, remember. Independent, or still part of Spain - entirely up to you. Both options are possible.

The majority of the French West Indies would probably stay with France. Haiti would likely remain the exception, though I'd hope not as violently as otl.

Lordganon (talk) 08:46, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you can basically add any length of time into the "Other" box when blocking. Disturbing that he followed you to ask why, though.

Haiti, probably not much later than otl. The Revolutionaries would stir up trouble there, too, after being exiled, after all.

Btw - would it be all right if your Nuclear Plant proposal in DD was graduated as a stub?

Lordganon (talk) 09:56, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

He probably will not bug us any longer.

The rebels would be the ones that managed otl to overthrow the French government. With their encouragement, and an even greater inability for the French to do anything about it than otl, the slaves in Haiti would come to power. Think of it as a more moderate, sane, black-majority government, without the anti-white massacres, etc. of otl. Remember, these fleeing revolutionaries banned slavery otl. The population numbers for Haiti mean that even if the white population got independence for the colony, it'd be black within a few years - without France itself, they have no hope of supporting that structure. If memory serves, the blacks in Haiti outnumbered the whites several times over.

"Stub" does mean graduation - but it also indicates that the author's not done yet. Think of it like the "under construction" tags you have on articles in your timelines, but for Doomsday. Definitely not permission for others to touch it. And, no worries - I know how your "process" works - so I know it will get done when you get to it next.

Lordganon (talk) 08:05, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the French held the eastern part of the island from 1795 to 1804, but they lost the western part in 1801. Their possession of the east was also due to a peace treaty, which would not happen atl.

The Haitians continued to try and rule the whole island for most of the 1800s. With no wars, etc. like otl, they'd likely keep it - the Brits would not get involved, the French nowhere near strong enough to do anything about it, and the Spanish too weak/inept.

It really wasn't peace/detente otl - the French government just wasn't in any position to do anything about it. Then the Republicans took power, and banned slavery, so they quit trying and worked out an "arrangement" - basically acknowledging the facts on the ground, because they couldn't retake the colony. The slave owners, by and large, didn't survive this period.

Now, atl, with the revolution failing, the king will try to retake it. It would go over far, far, worse than when Napoleon sent troops. Haitian independence would be a "fait accompli" after that point. People fleeing the failed revolution in France - liberals/republicans, with a dislike for slavery, for the most part - arriving to some degree would only help.

Basically, independent from the 1790s onward. They have the tools to win it, and the French lack the means to retake it. Louis XVII - the otl Louis XVIII - would probably eventually declare the Haitian president to be governor of Haiti, in some sort of crazy idea to save face.

Lordganon (talk) 10:13, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'll graduate it on Sunday then ^^

The flags are annoying, at best - most we can really do about it is have them not fill the talk pages with code. That being said, if someone makes a duplicate one and puts it in, that won't save the image.

And while I'm at it, since I read your Russia section...

Yes, Catherine staying "on the fence" would be likely. Without the French going so far, she may live slightly longer too - less stress would mean a slight delay in the stroke. Would mean a 1797 death instead of her otl 1796 one.

Without a real revolution in France, I think that Constantine probably would actually become Tsar. Most accounts only have him not becoming Tsar because his brother was a bit of a hard case, something which no wars should cure to some extent. Constantine only lived until 1831, and had no heirs, so it really would just delay Nicholas a few years.

I would guess that Alexander would be assassinated like in otl - those responsible did it because they felt reforms needed to made far faster. Call it a rather extreme way to make a point. Odds are that they'd still want to make it atl. Paul would still get "offed" as well.

Looking into the descendants of Queen Victoria, pretty much everyone that got hemophilia either died young, or had no children. Alexi surviving his father would be very unlikely. Doing a bit of guesswork, Nicholas would probably die 10-15 years later than otl. No more than 20. The Romanov's just don't seem to have the genes for long lives, funny enough.

Micheal would take the throne willingly enough, I imagine. Seemed to want to otl, for that matter - didn't take it right away (what he agreed to amounted to putting it off until the war ended) but did not say "no." His son would succeed him after a decade or so.

Lordganon (talk) 12:50, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that probably would be insane, lol.

Hadn't looked at those lists before. And now that I have, I have to say - those are just nutty, at best. There's no basis for them at all - heck, the Netherlands one is mildly disturbing. To say those need changing is an understatement, lol.

Paul I, Tsar 1797-1801. Second entry on your list ;)

Disturbing, that character. Well blocked.

Lordganon (talk) 08:07, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that'd have been him. Had to be - timing is too coincidental, especially since your wiki is hard to find, with the only links being on your user page. I've blocked all the IPs he used to vandalize your wiki on here now, as well.

Yes, Paul would still be killed.

You'd think that six "Williams" would be, but I'm afraid not. In addition to the Danish crown's oddities (only using Frederick and Christian, except the current queen, since the early 1500s) and the 29 French kings with "Louis" in their names, at a minimum Hesse has worse than that author. Ten rulers named "Louis" of one sort of another in a row, with another barely separated before that. And I'm pretty sure that some of the other German principalities are worse than that, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 09:37, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Will at least make it harder for him if he tries anything. Your site.... meh. Saw it long ago, lol. Everyone needs a space to fill with random things.

At a guess, the original author just spouted out random names. Only thing that makes sense, lol.

Yeah, wouldn't bet on it becoming the House of Windsor atl. However.... after the Queen, unlike otl, it would switch to being the "House of Mountbatten," I imagine. Not done otl, but atl you'd have none of the attachment to "Windsor."

Hannover, like otl, would pass to the line of Ernest Augustus, Duke of Cumberland and Teviotdale. The laws of succession wouldn't change, meaning that Victoria still gets bypassed.

Actually, it was never said if Michael's son would or would not inherit otl, and the revolts happened before it even came up - and his mother did marry Michael, for that matter, after his birth. As Czar, Michael would have full authority to legitimize everything. So George would probably become Czar.

Lordganon (talk) 08:32, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Apologies for taking so long to reply - hectic again.

Yup, end just like otl.

Most heads of royal houses - the Czar being one - have the power to adjust the inheritance laws in their house. With a more liberal Russia than otl, the Duma would also have to approve, but that would be a mere formality. The real problem with Michael's marriage and son was that her "rank" was not quite correct. But she was still nobility, so all the Tsar has to do is change the marriage requirements from being royal or ruling houses (or former ruling houses) to all nobility, along with the legitimization like otl. A minor change, really, and very likely in like of the atl.

Yeah, he'd definitely not die in a car crash like otl. For heirs.... female children, maybe naming them after his aunts, and male children, maybe his grandfathers?

No problem with changing topics.

Yeah, Yank does tend to be a bit absent-minded.

Really, the idea of China getting split up between the European powers just isn't possible - there's too many of them, and a reasonably unified state, unlike the situation in India. Basically, while India happened China would not.

The other colonies probably would be added as Dominions atl, by and large. A few would would likely leave, but most would have the same role as the settler colonies. India especially.

Hong Kong may be slightly larger atl - the Brits are going to be somewhat stronger than otl, so they should be able to get slightly more concessions out of the Emperor. Call it that the colony goes 20-30 miles further inland than otl.

Situation in China.... probably a new dynasty arises in the early 1900s. Wouldn't rule out a republic entirely, either.

Yes, going to graduate your Shoreham page as a stub, probably in the next hour.

Lordganon (talk) 11:09, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Least there's been no more bad news this time. Sucks that your week's the same, lol.

No worries - I understand that the concept is new. Would be more positive than those examples, mind - think of it being more like the Brits. They're currently changing their succession laws slightly, allowing equal inheritance, rather than male-preference.

Yeah, you're not going to see another Empress for a while. Pretty much all the ones that exist, like Catherine the Great, more or less took power in coups or similar circumstances. While I can see the succession laws being changed with regards to marriages, allowing females to inherit the titles would be a bit much.

Well, Michael's wife's father was named "Sergi." There was quite a tendency to name children in these families after uncles/aunts or their grandparents (which more or less explains all of the names in common) How'd that be for a name? Definitely Russian enough, and not used in the family at all.

Funny that you use "Cyril" as an example - after Michael's son (and any male heirs he has), the next in line for the throne would be the descendants of Cyril Vladimirovich, Grand Duke of Russia, Micheal's uncle. Even odder, he was the claimant to the throne otl after the Communists killed all the royals, and after him his son (with his granddaughter, contrary to the house laws, continuing this today) Be kinda funny if they get the throne atl.

Tibet would likely gain independence.

East Turkestan and Mongolia would have good odds of going to Russia. Manchuria.... depends on Japan. Realistically, some sort of border region between the two, ala~ Afghanistan between the Russians and Brits, is likely to be the end result.

A republic in China wouldn't be unlikely. Not like they've ever cared much about world opinion, after all. And without communism being so much on the world stage, it'd have some staying power.

Yes, they wouldn't really "favor" it. However, that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen. Remember, India and a few other colonies were "special" in most regards - kind of halfway between the otl dominions, and the majority of colonies, such as those in Africa. Really, had war not broken out otl, it probably would have been a dominion by 1940. Sri Lanka, Malaysia, New Guinea and the colonies in Western Africa would be good examples of this. And no, not settler colonies.

Parliaments have two houses, remember - upper and lower, like the US Congress. Using the same logic, India has the largest voting bloc in the lower house, but not even close to that in the upper (realistically, they probably end up getting somewhat underrepresented in the lower house too) Brits over-represented overall, and dominate upper house. Upper house would be like the House of Lords, I imagine. By virtue of all this, India can't dominate, any more than California or Texas can otl.

Ones not joining..... most of the Arab and some of the African members of the Commonwealth. For that matter, with no real WWI, the Arab states wouldn't be part of things (besides the Gulf states and Egypt) at all. Burma would not be part of this either. But the Trucial States, Kuwait, and Oman would likely stay in, though special arrangements would need to be made for their rulers (Malaysia as well, for that matter) Egypt would leave, I'm sure.

Cyprus could possibly be a member - though I suspect a Greek-Turkish split might be more likely.

I know yo'll get to the article when your process goes back around to it. No worries, Nuke - I remember how you work ;)

Lordganon (talk) 09:22, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well, if you believe Kate's "slip" it's a daughter ;) Remains to be seen, mind.

Those names work well. The length of the reigns as well, for that matter.

A Manchuria-Korea split would probably work here - though I suspect that Japan would also get Taiwan and the Liaodong Peninsula, with the peninsula getting a land connection to Korea too.

I would think that the majority of Pakistan - several areas with large Hindi populations would remain in India atl - would still leave. Bangladesh, however, would likely stay with India.

The monarchies in a monarchy bit is actually the case today for a few places - the Queen has some sort of High King arrangement (technically) over the local rulers in Malaysia, Brunei, Lesotho, Swaziland, and Tonga. Atl, this would more or less have them part of the Commonwealth, but with their own rulers holding positions instead of governor-generals.

I imagine that the UAE would have each emirate on its own, with each more of a crown colony than a dominion.

Cyprus is just one giant, ugly, mess. About the best way to handle it - since at least a third of the population will hate any governing arrangement - by my guess would be to just split the island along language/religion lines between Greece and Turkey. Not like they wouldn't already have a border, after all.

Like you've said before, you work on what's interesting you, in a rough pattern. So long as "13" holds it, and you're making good progress, it makes sense that you'll stick with it.

Lordganon (talk) 12:35, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, when talking about the baby a few weeks ago she let loose the first syllable of "daughter" before correcting her slip. Several major bookies have apparently even closed their bets over the matter as a result.

Odds are, though, that only heir of the current atl emperor would have been born in that timeframe - fits more in the overall context, too, to have the grandson of one Sergi named after him. In place of Cyril, if that doesn't work out, you could always use another Constantine - it was a common enough name in the empire, and atl it's been used for a Tsar before. Other good options would be Vladimir, Alexi, Fedor, Nikita, Dmitri, Rostislav, Vasili, Andrei, Boris, Paul, Vyacheslav, or Peter, some of which are names of past rulers, and all common in both Russian society and royal descendants.

Yes, I remember that was the principle reason - however, those are far from the only warm-water ports in the area. The ports of Huludao and Yingkou, in Manchuria just west of the peninsula, were established by the date any treaty would be signed and meet all those requirements. Heck, the ports themselves are both more sheltered than those on the peninsula. Japan held Korea and still wanted the peninsula otl, remember - would probably be no different atl.

More like parts of Pakistan. And, thinking on it, at least Kashmir and Hyperbad would probably stay separate in some form as well. Have a few more bits on the matter, but I'm going to draw you up a map to show what I'm meaning.

I figured that with the colonial directions being somewhat different atl, the two kingdoms would be less likely to survive. Would not be a stretch, mind, for them to remain as sub-units of Natal. Walvis Bay had to be brought up separately to ensure it was included, though it'd be a crown colony in its own right.

Given the size, position, and number of shiekdoms, it makes sense for them to be crown colonies. I know that the smaller ones wouldn't unify in any form with Bahrain and Qatar, and Bahrain would not do it with Qatar (loss of political power all round) so there would need to be three dominions, at best, in that area. Better to just have it as crown colonies. I rather doubt that the locals would allow Indians any rights, like otl. I know that there would be some sort of overall law against it, but they really wouldn't care.

Hey, life's just like that sometimes. "Murphy" just likes to screw with us all, you know?

Just noticed you changed the Carolinian president - don't know why you changed it - nothing wrong with the move to Huckabee, he'd be from there - but John Edwards would be too. As an fyi.

Lordganon (talk) 09:54, March 31, 2013 (UTC)



So, India...

This map is kinda what I'm sorta thinking.

Under the Brits, as I'm sure you're aware, India was a combination of directly governed areas, and princely states. Otl, a compromise of sorts between the two areas and the Indian nationalists was required.

Atl.... probably not. With the changes in the Federation, it's not going to be unified like otl. The new federal scheme would allow for it.

What I was thinking is that the result of this would be two main things.

First, the largest/highest ranking princely states are going to be separate, like they hoped for/tried for/wanted otl, along with the more independent-minded ones.

Second, there would not be so much of a Muslim/Hindu split. The populations here would be more evenly spread, and the "India" state would be closer to 50/50. Hence the "India" section having large amounts of otl Pakistan.

Other things would include part of Pakistan - the tribal lands giving the Pakistani government trouble otl - would revert to Afghanistan. The locals would like that. The Portuguese and French territories would stay in their hands. Dutch and Danish forts would, like otl, have been acquired in the 1800s.

The area I have labeled as "Pakistan" would likely have the name "Balochistan" since that would be what it mostly consists of.

The princely states would hold a status in these nations somewhat akin to India in the Federation overall. The larger independent ones would have a few of these states within them, as well, especially Baroda.

The four in the northeast would likely have the status of crown colonies. The remainder would hold the dominion level. Balochistan and Burma would be republics outside of the Federation.

Thoughts?

Lordganon (talk) 13:00, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Tons of betting. More than on the results of the papal election, even. The Brits and Irish are really big on the concept of betting, actually.

Either of the other sites could just as easily be called Dalny. And both would have far more potential than the otl Dalny, too.

Actually, given the effects of the PoD, I doubt that Japan is "opened" quite as soon as otl - the Russians would have more time in Asia, though how much I do not know off the top of my head. Sometime in the late 1890s would actually workwell, I think.

That sums up that rough India map well.

No, not an Edwards supporter. Just figured I'd let you know that he'd be Carolinian, lol. Huckabee would be as well, of course.

Actually, an election between Huckabee and Edwards leading to Huckabee being the current Carolinian President would make sense for the most part.

Virginia would indeed have different priorities than the otl state - but for the most part, Maryland probably would not.

Lordganon (talk) 11:57, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

No worries about the time - lord knows, I've kept you waiting before lol

Two minds of Perry here - on the one hand, he'd be from a smaller nation atl, which would impact the ability for him to be sent out there (given his father, he'd still get command, I think, no matter what), but on the other, whaling and similar interests would be more important, so a voyage to Japan in that regard - much like otl - would make sense.

I figure that a voyage for the same reasons as otl still gets launched by New England, though delayed slightly. Maybe them and the Russians both are working on it, separately, at the same time?

Random thought - Columbia would have a fair-sized New Englander population in its cities, as a long-term result of the whaling and other activities.

Wasn't a given that he'd be from Carolina - just because someone is born in a region doesn't mean their ancestors were from there.

Yes, Huckabee is a much better option.

I figure that with Maryland being a country, the inexperienced leadership of otl would have more experience atl - the government would be somewhat larger, after all.

Lordganon (talk) 09:27, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I would say, then, that the Russians get there a couple days before Perry atl, and it's more of a "joint" opening than anything, timewise. I imagine that this may well get Russia and Japan to have better relations, too.

More or less correct on prohibition. I would expect Columbia to legalize weed, however, with the descendants of the New Englander settlers in the area being the most vocal against it.

Well, Maryland really has never had much going on - so it makes sense that it would be the smallest of the ex-US states, info-wise. Tried looking into the governor, for instance, and can't find an ancestry record at all.

Lordganon (talk) 12:15, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Reply
I'm sorry, I will more be careful in future.

By the way, can I ask some advice from you? Do I need to "save" my ATL Soviet Union or "dissolute" it into my ATL Russia? FirstStooge (talk) 01:30, March 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm...I think I just invented a new word ("dissolute").


 * There are any possibilities with no purge on the Red Army it will helping the Soviet to developes its military and being prepare for the Nazi invasion? FirstStooge (talk) 04:58, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your advices, Nuke, I will developing my timeline very well soon :) FirstStooge (talk) 15:05, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

GWBIII
Thanks for the support. He has done this to me in a bunch of other places anyways. I'm sick of it, quite frankly.

02:25, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Russia in HR
Hey Nuke! How have you been? Long time no see - over a year since we have last talked I think. I know I have got onto your nerves a whole load of times due to VH and I do apologise for that. So I think you will be glad to know this has nothing to do with VH, lol. In fact, I require your vast Russian knowledge for the Russia I would like to create in my timeline. See, I have a timeline called Hindustani Raj which I created a couple years back, however I have not worked on it much and it has just been neglected. After 10,000 edits - I finally got some sense and I am trying to make it into a fully fledged timeline.

Basically, I was hoping that I could ask your opinion on what you think about the Russia I am trying to create. I plan to have Russia which has the OTL territories of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazahistan and maybe Georgia. It would not be having Karelia as I plan to have that as a part of Finland and have a part of Kamchatka missing as it would be part of Japan. But this is not all - I would like the country to have Aleyska too, being the size of the Alaska in Russian America, a part of Russia. I plan on having Russia as a Federation with a monarch and I thought that having Russia like this would be different from other TLs.

I was wondering if this was plausible at all or not and what you thought of it. I do hope you like the idea and I will be looking forward to your response. Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:29, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

I do apologise for being vague, I have just got back into the TL. I have the British focusing more in Australia, so its population is around 50 million. I was also wanting something of an American dominion in North America, so the Brits would be busy there too. New Zealand also gets more attention, and the Maori effectively merge with the arriving populace through inter-marrying.

Maybe the Brits could get more involved with the Germans (through Hanover). Would this be enough to distract the Brits long enough for the Russians to gain a much bigger Alaska? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:54, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, as a sidenote, where do you get the world maps from? I was wondering where I could find one to try to sketch out rough borders. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:56, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Better favourite that page, lol.


 * Wow, it really was quite a smart move on my part to ask about your opinion on Russia -  you have opened up areas of change I haven't even looked into (ie the Sweden thing). The map is great! I still get a bigger Alaska XD. However, I really don't like the notion of France still being a monarchy till the mordern day. Since the British French rivalry and enemity would still exist - I think the Brits could team up with Prussia to destroy the French and maybe cause some revolutions (no Napoleon methinks) - all later on though.


 * I'll probably get a rudimentary world map readied up as well. Sorry for responding so late - had a few computer problems. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:51, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I have asked him so lets hope for the best. Here is my World Map (WIP) of Hindustani Raj. Now I know Hindustan seems huge - however I will have them trading a lot after conquering the sub-continent and the map does not tell the full picture that I have planned.

If you are interested I could give you the backgroud to Hindustan. All up to you though, and thank you again for youe help (Alaska does look good). :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:42, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Duplicates 2
Could you remove the older ones? Thanks. --OreoToast555(Talk) 19:39, March 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Would you mind removing the remaining ones?


 * I'll reupload them as a different file name
 * I'll leave it alone now.. canada2hy.jpg Hypothetical Alberta Blue Ensign.svg Flag of Australasian team for Olympic games.svg OreoToast555(Talk) 20:45, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

That
Nuke, I'm a bit late to this, but it's the people like that guy who have little to no comprehension skills that make me lose faith in future generations. If this is a sore point for you, just feel free to remove this.

02:46, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yugoslavia Question
Morning, Nuke.

I just thinking, if I made more democratic Soviet in my timeline, do it gonna has a significant effect for the post-World War II Yugoslavia? (Sorry if my language is very bad) FirstStooge (talk) 02:47, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your advices, Nuke. Have a nice weekend :) FirstStooge (talk) 03:29, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Democratic Party of Japan
Just to let you now, that the logo I uploaded for the Democratic Party of Japan, I took away the English name in the logo itself because since in the Satomi Maiden ~ Third Power time-line, the English language is not seen world-wide and is limited to around OTL England. -Kogasa  2013年3月28日 00:40:34 (JST)

Re: Duplicates?
I was unsure of what to do, the images already existing on the site were loading extremely large on the template i was using them in, and when i attempted to deal with the size say um |150px]] for example, it would glitch and show a bunch of various source coding characters including  [[Image ]] and others... i uploaded the duplicates due to the reasoning i felt that the secondary images would correct the error, as they did, the template is now broken and i will attempt yet again to correct the imagery error provided to me by this. My apologies.

OreoToast555(Talk) 01:47, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Oh i have seen that you have taken time to fix this.... thanks

OreoToast555(Talk) 01:49, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Didn't come off at all agressively, i was using source mode at the time.

OreoToast555(Talk) 02:05, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

I did a fix on a flag for a page, no File  or anything, it worked properly,   OreoToast555(Talk) 02:24, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

I'll remember it next time. :) 03:20, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Uploading Pictures
Hello, I have uploaded hundreds of pictures and had no idea I was doing something wrong. I will put myself on a learning curve and try to do it right for now on. But honestly I don't now much about picture names ect. so I may contact you again for help.

Iwaschris (talk) 18:06, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Iwaschris
It's only recreating wikipedia if it's copied from there, or an article meant to convey the same thing - for example, we've had people try to copy wikipedia articles to hear on things such as feudalism before.

That article, for instance, is definitely summarized, and has at least two differences - the year his work was discovered in the west, and the nation (though not place) of his death. Thus, it's not a case of recreating wikipedia.

Lordganon (talk) 06:56, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

re:Duplicates
Thank you. I got a bit lazy when I was looking for some of these. It won't happen again. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 04:14, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia pictures
How do you add pictures in from Wikipedia? It's been a while since I did and I forgot how to do it now. Razgriz 2K9 (talk) 15:34, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Base maps
Hey, do you happen to have any good base maps for North America in the Revolutionary/late 1700's era?

thanks

DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 18:19, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

nothing nevermind DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 19:51, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Japanese Flag
For A World of Difference, I used a different shade of red for the Japanese war flag and also centered it. So I would like to keep the file I already had. Unless you're sure it's a copy of something else out there.

00:38, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

I used standard red because it was the closest I could get to Japanese blood red, #F35336. Also I am sorry for re-uploading the file.

00:52, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, my bad with the second part. I only recognized it as one of my pages and failed to see what flag and timeline it was.

00:54, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, OK. Again, I am sorry.

01:19, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

A situation to look into
Hello, I am playing a map game called Night of the Living Alternate History, and I am a little suspicious of two players have just joined, have no other posts other than signing up for the map game, and joined barely 5 mins apart. Also they just listed their names under my country as dependencies and such without saying a work to me or anyone in the game. I was hoping you could take a look at say their IP address and such, as I myself do not want to be accused of metagaming.

this copy and pasted from the history guide, please take a look and at the very least i just wanted to record that I am not apart of whatever this might be.

Here is the history page with time stamps and what sections they edited.


 * (cur | prev)  17:27, April 18, 2013‎ Lord Finnius  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (204,506 bytes) (+26)‎ . .  (→‎North America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  17:26, April 18, 2013‎ Lord Finnius  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (204,480 bytes) (+525)‎ . .  (→‎South America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  17:23, April 18, 2013‎ Lord Finnius  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,955 bytes) (+96)‎ . .  (→‎North America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  17:11, April 18, 2013‎ Emperor Romanus  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,859 bytes) (+42)‎ . .  (→‎South America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  17:09, April 18, 2013‎ Emperor Romanus  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,817 bytes) (+40)‎ . .  (→‎South America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  17:06, April 18, 2013‎ Emperor Romanus  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,777 bytes) (+71)‎ . .  (→‎1975.25) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  17:02, April 18, 2013‎ Harvester360  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,706 bytes) (+111)‎ . .  (→‎1975.25) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  16:55, April 18, 2013‎ Harvester360  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,595 bytes) (+97)‎ . .  (→‎South America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  16:50, April 18, 2013‎ Harvester360  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,498 bytes) (-146)‎ . .  (→‎South America) (undo)
 * (cur | prev)  16:49, April 18, 2013‎ Harvester360  (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (203,644 bytes) (+162)‎ . .  (→‎South America) (undo)

Hello, I think its all good now, I was just trying to alert you to the situation, however, i posted it on our mapgame's mods page as well. They claim to be brothers. Thanks for your support G greg e (talk)

Dutch in "13"
Looks reasonable enough.

Yes, the Dutch splitting Indonesia into several states makes sense - they'd do it.

Dutch would keep Sri Lanka, probably.

They would still sell the Gold Coast outposts - no need for them, and massive net loss after the banning of slavery.

The Dutch having their empire go the same way as the Brits atl is very logical - heck, it's what they have done otl with their Caribbean colonies. With the Brits doing it, they'd do it far sooner and on a far larger scale.

About the only quibble I have is Antarctica - that area of the continent is inaccessible, even by the standards of Antarctica. That's why despite it first being sighted by a Russian fleet around 1820, no one set foot or really got close until the 1880s-1890s when Norwegian whalers did so. Norwegian exploration (often with Sweden) from that point was really the only ones to explore the region from there until German movements in the 1930s.

I just can't see the Dutch bothering - so whatever state has Norway would be the ones to have the claims to the area, in my opinion.

Lordganon (talk) 09:06, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, all's well. Not entirely unusual for me not to get around to responding on Sunday and Monday, I'm afraid. Probably won't change anytime soon. Took longer this time purely because the change list was so long, lol. If anything's wrong, I'll make it known.

France would in most ways go the same as the Brits and Dutch - they wanted it in some ways otl. Portugal tried the same thing, actually.

I expect that Portugal and Spain will face resistance, however. Their attitudes towards their colonies was somewhat less than stellar, after all.

Aside from Spanish territory already covered, I would expect they would only hold on to Western Sahara, and parts of northern Morocco (likely, Tangier and its environs) and Morocco gets the rest, their small areas like Ceuta aside.

Portuguese colonies, up to you. Aside from India, East Timor, Macau, the Gulf of Guinea territories, and Cape Verde, their other colonies still could break away. Brazil, obviously would do it, though still may want association in some form. It's Mozambique and Angola that are the concern, really. Independent or part of Portugal in some form - up to you.

North Africa aside from the little Spanish parts and Algeria probably would go its own way, more or less like otl.

I see Indonesia split into 7 provinces, with four other territories being separate. The eight would be the Lesser Sunda Islands, Sumatra, Java, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, the Maluku Islands, and Jakarta. These would in most ways correspond to the geographical units of Indonesia today.

The other four would be the Sultanates of Surakarta and Yogyakarta, the region of Aceh, and Papua. Both sultanates would be in the Dutch Commonwealth (or w/e you name it), Papua would join with the eastern part of the island, and Aceh would go its own way, entirely independent.

Papua as whole would go anywhere. I suspect that most likely it would be independent, but with ties to both the Brits and Dutch.

Yes, them selling the Antilles would definitely make more sense in that context.

Danish Antarctica it is. Hmmm.... Not impossible for it to be some sort of Danish/Swedish joint control, either.

I highly doubt that Spain would do so. They would view it as just another native rebellion - the leaders of otl probably would not get involved. In the vast majority of their colonies, the native or "half" population forms a large majority, and were treated like dirt. They also held little to no loyalty to the crown.

Basically, you're going to have, at best, the same amount of royalists as in otl. I suspect far less, however, is more likely.

It's not a question of time, really, leading to some sort of "sense" - just being treated horribly for far longer, and with far less means to revolt with. that's about the only reasons it took so long otl.

Putting them down in the 1820s only delays it.

A majority of the people in Peru would still have wanted out - it just happened to be the headquarters of government in the area, so it held longer. It would still go with the rest.

Noticed, as well, the candidates you added to your 'box, looked them over. Felt like looking into more of them too, lol

Barry Goldwater's ancestors on one side are more recent immigrants - and on the other, come from the NJ/NY area. The immigrants likely came through NYC, too. He's probably going to be from New Netherland, I think.

Wallace, definitely Carolina.

McGovern, definitely Canada.

Dukakis, definitely New England.

More of Bob Dole's ancestors seem to be from NJ/NY than atl Virginia - it's more likely that he'd be from New Netherland.

Gave opinions on rest before.

Other candidates...

Ross Perot would likely be from Louisiana. His ancestors lived in both Arkansas and Louisiana, and he has french ancestry on his father's side.

Walter Mondale was descended from Norwegian immigrants on one side, and most from the UK on the other. I'm pretty sure he'd live in Borealia.

John B. Anderson, who ran a very strong 3rd party campaign in 1980, had a Swedish immigrant for a father, and his mother, going by last names, likely came from somewhere in the northeast. NY seems to be the most likely. So, at a guess, he'd be from New Netherland.

Hubert Humphrey had a Norwegian immigrant for a mother, and his father was descended from New Englanders. So he is probably from New England.

Adlai Stevenson II's maternal ancestors come from Pennsylvania, near the Delaware border, but moved out to Ohio and then Illinois early on, in a part of the state in the area of the atl Virginia-Canada border. His paternal ancestors were already in North Carolina by the PoD, but moved to Kentucky not long thereafter. Thinking on things, Virginia is the most likely state for him.

Thomas E. Dewey... far as I can determine, his ancestors came to Michigan from New England via New York. They would have come there around 1820. I suspect that they would have remained in the otl Michigan region, given the relation of the Brits with NE. He would then be from Canada atl.

Should come as no surprise that Strom Thurmond would be from Carolina.

All of Wendell Willkie's grandparents were from Germany. The area where he was born otl would be part of Virginia, near the Canadian border. I figure that the argument can be made he'd be Virginian atl. Alternative would likely be New Netherland, but I suspect Virginia to be more likely.

Alf Landon appears to be of Pennsylvanian ancestry.

Lordganon (talk) 04:54, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Would have been less, but I was busy on Sunday, which put me behind, lol.

Yes, the French would do the same as the UC. You would still probably see a few of the colonies directly integrated, and power would be more concentrated in Paris still, but it would be much like the UC. I'd guess that it would be more weak, structurally, than the other UC-type things too. Think of it as a possible source of future tensions.

At least the coastal areas will remain French. Basically anywhere that there was a large French population.

They almost lost several of them long before that, but didn't change anything with regards to their attitudes. These ones wouldn't do it, either.

Yes, they saw them as little better than the natives, for the most part. And by the period in question, these were also in many areas the majority too.

I think that Brazil would probably remain one state. For different reasons than otl, but one state nevertheless.

Was actually thinking more that Indonesia would be a dominion, with those sections its provinces. If you go with multiple dominions - equally possible, really - than Jakarta is part of Java.

Yes, the sultanates would be like Hyderabad et. al. in India.

Mostly I just google their names and "ancestry" to find them. Wikpedia sometimes has info, and the site you've a link to in that area of your sandbox has had a few more.

Perot, actually, has a section on that site - it's just not listed. Google him and "ancestry" and you'll see it.

Glad I was helpful with Louisiana there, lol.

Lordganon (talk) 03:28, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the included regions otl definitely would be.

I would expect Brazil gains it far earlier than the Spanish colonies. In that area, the Portuguese were very good about it, unlike in Africa. Maybe a decade later than otl. The same monarchs as otl would be likely as well. Might manage to stay in power here, too.

Thinking on it, it is a better idea for Indonesia to be several dominions. It's much more regional in nature than India.

Eat Indies would continue to be the name.

I'll do a bit of hunting for Louisianans atl.

Lordganon (talk) 05:04, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

I believe that it would still become a monarchy, yes.

You know I like research, lol.

Robert H. Barrow, P. G. T. Beauregard, Kathleen Blanco, James Carville, Paul N. Cyr, Bobby Jindal, Mary Landrieu, Moon Landrieu, and Condoleezza Rice all should be from Lousiana, I think. I also believe that Daniel Boone would as in otl move there.

Other interesting things...

Colin Powell, Jamaica.

Joe Biden, Maryland.

Tim Pawlenty, Borealia.

Mike Gravel, Canada.

Dick Gephardt, Virginia.

Joe Lieberman, New Netherland.

Newt Gingrich, Pennsylvania.

Ron Paul, New Netherland.

Pat Buchanan, Carolina.

Dick Cheney, Virginia.

Sarah Palin, New England.

Lordganon (talk) 09:48, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

One of the other children of the Portuguese King, much like otl, would end up being the ruler of Brazil. Was plenty of support already. The crown would just be "split" at some point. Heck, I would not be shocked if they do it in response to the Spanish troubles in the Americas.

You know I enjoy research.

Did need to see where Jindal's parents first went in the States - they appear to have went straight to Louisiana. Had it been to NYC first, for example, that may have changed things.

Perfectly possible for Powell's parents to immigrate.

Yes, his mother's ancestors did come from Pennsylvania, but they did not immigrate to the USA until after your PoD, and they didn't really end up in Pennsylvania for a while after that either. In light of that, I figure that it's better to go with the Maryland angle, since that's where his father's ancestors definitely were. Up to you, mind.

Didn't even notice your addition of Lieberman.

Lieberman's ancestors lived in NYC before moving to Connecticut. His mother's parents also were from the Austrian Empire, not New England - they were of Jewish/Ukrainian stock.

Yeah, Cheney has some ancestors from New Hampshire, but the majority of them are from more southern areas. Southern Indiana and Kentucky, a lot of them.

Some Ron Paul's ancestors lived in NYC, with children born there - the rest would have been there at least a while. Remember, the largest number of immigrants of the period went through that port. In light of all that, I think it's more likely for them to stay there, though Pennsylvania isn't impossible.

Lordganon (talk) 05:51, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

I would expect them as allies, but still two separate countries.

More common for such a split than you'd think - it was once regular to do so in Russia and Iberia, and some parts of Germany practiced it into the 1800s. Saxe and Hesse are the biggest culprits there - it's why those two states would in this atl Germany be more federal than most states. The rest of Europe ended the practice a bit earlier, but even in those areas it was still a semi-regular practice. Heck, the Hapsburgs did that with their empire in the 1500s or 1600s, even.

From what I've been given to understand, Jindal's parents were offered some sort of job with a company there - and it is much more moderate than the rest of the south, too.

Had not thought of that meaning him another leader for Maryland. Heh. Well, I figure the odds are 60/40 between Maryland and Pennsylvania.

Yeah, I really didn't notice it lol - not shocking, given the amount of posts I go through on here.

Lordganon (talk) 04:27, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

With the Brazilian monarchy established a bit later atl, and the situation in Portugal far more stable, many of the problems with it would vanish. These largely had to do with a weak central government during a regency for Pedro II, which would be for far less time or be avoided altogether here.

It should be noted, too, that outside of a few army commanders who wanted to establish a dictatorship under themselves, the monarchy was very popular in Brazil even when it ended - the people did not support the coup.

Yes, relations with Carolina would be very good, especially in that period.

It occurs to me, too - Baltimore was at the time of the Revolution, and for decades afterwards, the center of the Catholic population in the USA, even having the first bishop. The Archbishop there retains a sort of seniority over the other archbishops even today, as his diocese is the oldest in the US (outside of Puerto Rico) because of this. Come to think of it, I'd imagine that Maryland would be far more Catholic than otl. Would certainly help draw his other ancestors there.

Whatever nation he ends up in, Biden being president in the 1990s sometime sounds about right.

Lordganon (talk) 05:38, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

They would not gain it at that point. During the later revolutions, not impossible, but that may even be doubtful. Their invasions otl had more to do with the Portuguese crown not wanting republicans next door than anything, truth be told. In fact, after that small timespan, Brazil interfered several times in order to help Uruguay preserve its independence. The otl invasions would not occur atl.

Overall, I doubt that Brazil would do it. More advantageous to have it independent.

Lordganon (talk) 06:39, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I think it would be - the locals weren't happy with the government in Buenos Aires, and it's in Brazil's best interests to have it independent as well, so they would have backing. Lordganon (talk) 09:04, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

"Cents" added. Lordganon (talk) 08:17, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

I need some of your advices
Nuke, I getting headache for writing my alternative World War II and my brain was stalled. So, can I ask you some few and short questions? FirstStooge (talk) 07:00, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) What is the impact of the non-existence/premature death of Hitler and the Nazi leadership of Gregor Strasser?
 * 2) With Strasser as the fuhrer, there is any possibility for Nazi Germany to reduce its hostility toward the USSR?
 * 3) With Strasser as the fuhrer, Germany became less invasive and less brutal (unless toward the Jews)?
 * 4) Could I made the establishment of Israel as the political agreement between Germany and the United Kingdom?
 * 5) Any ways to prevent the United States and/or the Soviet Union for getting directly involved in World War II?
 * 6) If Germany making peace with the Soviet Union earlier, how does the war end? Is through a sort of "Paris Peace Conference" or something?

Thank you so much, Nuke. Even not being a Nazi expert, you already gave a me some good basic points for my next writing. I will follow your advice to ask LG about this matters. Thank you again, Nuke, and Happy Thanksgiving :)

FirstStooge (talk) 04:18, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

You never can tell today is Thanksgiving or not, remember what FDR did to Thanksgiving in 1939...(see: Franksgiving) FirstStooge (talk) 22:12, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Your recent edits...
Have you dedicated yourself to replacing .png with .svg wherever you can? That's a LOT of edits!

Doctor Evulz (talk) 01:00, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, okay then. Good luck.

Doctor Evulz (talk) 01:28, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Re:Duplicates
Dude you keep on telling me about duplacutes. I am just a young confused man new to this Wiki. Can you please help me? What can I do better? Octivian Marius (talk) 20:31, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Restoring file
Hey Nuke, I noticed you had deleted File:West Papua CoA gray BG.JPG as a duplicate of File:West-Papua1961-6.JPG, but this was not entirely the case. I had changed the background of the latter image from white to gray, so it would match the color of the nation template on West Papua (Central Italy) and I wouldn't end up with an ugly white box around the CoA - as is now the case. I'd appreciate it if you could restore the image. Thanks! --XterrorX (talk) 14:26, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks again! And no problem, it takes much more than this to even slightly upset me, lol. I understand mistakes can occur when you're reorganizing the files on this Wiki dozens at the time. Keep up the good work! --XterrorX (talk) 15:26, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Asia (13 Fallen Stars)
I'd just like to explain that my later idea for China was just an idea that popped into my head. I'd still like China to remain independant in 13FS. Could we have Hong Kong be the local member of the UC? It could either remain the same size or be larger. And what happens to Japan, given that WWII is doubtful? Yank 18:56, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Some questions. Yank 19:47, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Would the resulting Russian Manchurian province have more respect to the local Manchurian language? The language is unfortunately mostly extinct in OTL.
 * 2) Is Siam still a monarchy? I've come to realize that I love a good monarchy.
 * 3) Same question as #2 with China substituted. Is the dynasty the Ming or some alternate dynasty?
 * 4) Does the Khmer Empire still exist? I rather like the name better than Cambodia.


 * 1) That's a given, seeing how the neighboring Russian territory in Siberia isn't itself hyper-populated.
 * 2) That's good. I frankly think "Siam" sounds much better than Thailand.
 * 3) I like a good constitutional monarchy. I think that a monarchy leavened with democratic institutions is one of the best governments when done right.
 * 4) Too bad. I rather enjoy that nation.
 * 5) (Here's the first new question) Would Hong Kong have a hybrid culture? And what would be the fate of the infamous Kowloon Walled City? Would it be demolished like in OTL? I doubt that it would become as crowded, as the major population increase happened as a result of the WWII Japanese occupation.
 * 6) Would Ghandi be the first Prime Minister of the Dominon of India?
 * 7) Would the Persian Shah remain in power? I don't know about you, but if I have to choose between the Shah and the Islamic "Republic" I'm choosing the Shah.
 * 8) What would happen to Iraq? because I'd rather not have Saddam in power. I think it'd be interesting to have Bagdad be a regional economic center. Yank 20:56, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

How do you make people Admin
Someone has made a wiki, and wants me to be admin, but neither of us know how to do it, can you help? Local (talk) 20:43, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Local (talk) 20:50, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

No Stalin, no Soviet?
Nuke, I just remember recently that Stalin had very much contributions in the creation of the USSR. If Stalin died earlier as in my TL, that are still plausible for my ATL USSR to being created? FirstStooge (talk) 10:20, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Isn't Lenin was ailing at the time of the creation of the USSR? And is there any Bolshevik leader with good and heavy-handed management skill at that time that has greater possibility to become Lenin's successor beside Stalin or Trotsky (although Trotsky never gained very much support from the Politburo) FirstStooge (talk) 15:56, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

I already did to visit the forum, but only Sergei Kirov that came into my mind for being next Soviet leader since he is a moderate Stalinist and supported reconciliation with inner party opposition groups, so he is charismatic enough without being too much autocratic as Stalin. The only problem is: there is Stalin which make him come into spotlight as one of top Bolshevik leaders and leader of Leningrad party branch due to Kirov's support to the former. FirstStooge (talk) 16:15, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, that is mean I shall continue writing on my ATL Soviet Union.


 * BTW, tell LG to reply my questions about Strasser that I ask you first. That has been more than a week he never give any reply about it. Thank you so much for your time, peace be upon you. FirstStooge (talk) 16:33, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Latin America (13 Fallen Stars)
I also think Colombia should be called New Granada, but for simplicity's sake. Don't you already have a nation called "Columbia" in 13 Fallen Stars? It'd be easier if you avoided adding another. Yank 17:39, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Missing image
Excuse me, Nuke, I found in the deleted file (gc)gb.png, there are still more than a hundred pages that linked with it and remaining being not replaced with the new one. Voluntarily, I want to replace it with the correct file that you had been uploaded, however I don't what image is the file (gc)gb.png, so I can't do anything about it. I hope you can help me about this. FirstStooge (talk) 10:30, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

1,500 pages? -.-"...well, I think it will break my keyboard and make my mouse run away. BTW, thank you so much for your reply. However, do you mind if I voluntarily replaced the duplicated files with the correct one? FirstStooge (talk) 16:15, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Very well, I will do that replacing job tomorrow because it already midnight in my place and I really want to go to sleep now. Thank you so much, Nuke. FirstStooge (talk) 16:31, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Nuke, I'm sorry, I cannot the replacing job maybe until Wednesday because I'm now get busy for my school graduation tomorrow. Please forgive me... T.T FirstStooge (talk) 02:06, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Nuke :) FirstStooge (talk) 14:30, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Bessarabia in 13
Hmmm... Yeah, both areas probably would be part of Russia here. Pretty much a given that they're going to fight the Ottomans more following the PoD, after all.

Doubtful that there is a Crimea-like war. Not that those states fighting a war isn't out of the question, but it wouldn't be Crimea-like.

Lordganon (talk) 03:20, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Doing good for being around this week. Trying a new "order" as to how I do things as well, which is helping.

Yes, definitely would be a war over that.

Lordganon (talk) 03:59, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Not strictly accurate that Korea would expand - really the Japanese would administer it separately, I imagine. But, more or less irrelevant.

Yeah, I suppose that works. More of the peninsula would be Japanese, however, I think. Given where the port would be, control of the bay would mean relatively little.

Could justify the Japanese gaining that chunk of Manchuria - the Korean states claimed to be the heirs of the Kingdom of Goguryeo, which included parts of modern Manchuria in that area.

Humorous, that.

Lordganon (talk) 12:05, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

The Russian port would be on the west side of the bay, and two separate powers hold the entrance. The Japanese holding some of the coast of it wouldn't effect them - their ability to exit the bay, and the lack of any ports on that side of the peninsula, mean it wouldn't matter for Russian control of the bay. Couldn't see Japan going for it, either.

Yeah, Korea would eventually be merged into Japan - but it would take decades for it to calm down enough for them to do it. Taiwan was a far easier task in that regard.

Some combination of local rivers and the Changbai Mountains?

I doubt Japan would try to take those islands. Some sort of commercial arrangement, no doubt, but no annexation.

Doubtful that there is a lot of Japanese there - without the Japanese control of otl, there simply wouldn't be any basis for it. Almost the entire Asian population of the islands, ether outright or partially, is because of those few decades of rule.

Lordganon (talk) 11:34, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

That's what I mean about the Chinese and Japanese, with regards to the Russian port. No matter what they do, or what territory they have on the bay, the Russians can pretty much hold the bay. Only way that the entrance can even be partially blocked is with a massive minefield, and with a Russian fleet of any reasonable size in the area, can't lay down those. New map is much better about it - more defensible on all sides.

New map version looks good.

Unlike otl, the Japanese are getting treated far better here, and have gotten a piece of the proverbial pie. Far less reason to mess with the European colonies. More or less right about their actions.

Lordganon (talk) 09:18, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Only in that bay. Outside of that, it would be others.

Yeah - Japan was treated like dirt by the West otl, and that was a contributor to their actions. Atl, it would be better, though still not all that "good." Should avoid most, if not all, of otl's unpleasantries.

French never really wanted Savoy - its annexation was more about Napoleon III wanting to gain territory to look better, and a desire to weaken their neighbor somewhat. Piedmont would still hold it atl, along with Nice.

Those microstates would still exist.

Lordganon (talk) 07:27, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yup. That's pretty much it. And yes, more or less the same thing in Mexico, though slightly less outright.

Long prior to that point, Liechtenstein had been aligned to Switzerland, with an established neutrality. And, while wholly independent, its rulers also held a lot of power, money, land, and influence in Austria. There's no way either would do anything. It'd remain independent.

Prior to the Napoleonic Wars, Monaco was an independent vassal of France. the relationship with Piedmont-Sardinia only came about after that. For that matter, Monaco, prior to the revolutionary wars and later unrest, was far, far, larger - the current territory is only 5% of what they once ruled. Atl, they would probably keep the entire thing. You can see a map of this on wikipedia, on the history of Monaco page. It's only 10 miles from French territory atl anyways - basically, it's not getting annexed by anyone.

San Marino would remain virtually identical to otl. More or less right on that border, as you suspected - if not right on it, the border would have been modified to have it so.

Yes, the French ruler is one of the two co-princes of Andorra - but the other is the Bishop of Urgell, in Spain. There's virtually no way that Andorra would get split up or annexed.

More or less the same status as otl for the Dependencies.

Lordganon (talk) 05:58, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Borealia Provincial Capitals (13FS)
I wanted to help you by researching some potential provincial capitals for Borealia, but I don't know how the internal borders go. I have no idea where the province of Caroline is. And I took the liberty of adding the provinces of Alaska and Aleutia. I had the Aleutians break off of Alaska because I think Alaska's too big for one province. Can you help me help you? Yank 23:20, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I'm just so used to communal timelines (and dealing with KingSweden) that I thought it wasn't a big deal. I think your work is awesome and I want to help improve it. That's all. I did mean to anger you, and I'll ask before I add more. It's just that I saw that I know you have a lot on your plate and I wanted to help. Yank 03:41, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

How about you replace the ill-named "Caroline" with "Assiniboia"? You've already used two district names, so why not use another? I imagine that the Borealian prairie would look something like what it looked at the turn of the last century (1900) Yank 18:37, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Micronesia
...And now I'm going to fix that. That the region is called Micronesia as well is irrelevant. The common name of the country is also Micronesia, so that is the category name for it. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to have a category specifically for the country like that, when the Micronesia one already served/serves that purpose. Lordganon (talk) 05:30, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Apologies - that was not at all the intent. In retrospect, posting on your page while responding to that fool was probably not the best idea. You're doing great work around here, Nuke. Lordganon (talk) 06:17, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Daxus Inferno - guy is a racist bigot and a liar, but he has to do one more thing before I can get rid of him forever.

Yeah, I know I can - again, I apologize for that.

Lordganon (talk) 00:22, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

A note - we really don't need that "Flags of the United States by Hellerick" category. Didn't even know that existed until you put things in it today, lol. Lordganon (talk) 02:07, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

My main concern with that category is how specific it is - it goes too far in that regard. A category for his flags would be one thing - but a subsection of the US flags for it is too much. Having each flag in both his section, and the US flags in general, would be ideal. Lordganon (talk) 04:32, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

More just over-complicating it than anything. I've no objections to a category for files any one user has made - you have one, for instance, if memory serves - just that having one like that where a more general one for the user would be better. Lordganon (talk) 09:10, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

I would really prefer there just be a general one - he'd got more flags that could go in it, and that's just easier all around. Lordganon (talk) 07:44, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

NotLAH
I noticed you deleted my post on Night of the Living Alternate History. It was an accident, I'm sure. I just wanted to alert you. Doctor Evulz (talk) 00:12, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's not your fault. Accidents happen. Doctor Evulz (talk) 01:12, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Duplicating again?
I did a search for the file and i didnt see anything, my bad   OreoToast555(Talk) 17:08, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ill try to limit image editing unless its mapmaking or really nessascary, i will be more thorough with searches as well from here out. OreoToast555(Talk) 17:15, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Bot
Hi Nuke, I just figured that since you do so much correction of file types, you might want a bot. I found a nice guy who has a bot, and I think he'll tell you how to get one and how to use it. He's this guy. He's not on this wiki, but you might want to contact him somewhere. Just thought this could help.

This is his main place of work:

http://39clues.wikia.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Kangaroopower

02:30, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

svg.png?
Yeah I've got no idea why the hell I started doing that. Consider it stopped!

Yan Hoek (talk) 07:28, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Naming files
That's how i named it whil i saved on the computer, so it would be unconspicous. i'll rename them. thank you for reminding me. IstocnoSarajevo (talk) 01:58, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

I've previously been know as Nyssa sylvatica and Sassafras Albidum, but I keep losing my password. May I reclaim one of those under a new password (I will keep better track of it this time)? 74.132.155.136 00:57, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

I've previously been know as Nyssa sylvatica and Sassafras Albidum, but I keep losing my password. May I reclaim one of those under a new password (I will keep better track of it this time)? Thank you! 74.132.155.136 00:58, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

UAE and Bermuda
Doing well enough. You?

Basically, the protectorates in Arabia all supported more integration otl. Really, none of them actually wanted their arrangements to end.

The vast majority of these protectorates are simply too small to be on their own in any form - they formed part of South Yemen otl. Most of the ones in that area are small enough that they would confederate with the larger ones in that region like otl, under the Crown. The ones in the Protectorate of South Arabia, rather than the Federation of South Arabia, would be on their own.

That's part of why I think a crown colony-type arrangement is more likely than them staying protectorates. It's more like what they had happen otl.

Them being crown colonies, with their own monarchs in the executive role - think of the arrangements in place with Fiji and the Channel Islands otl - would in my opinion, be the likely result. The otl Federation of South Arabia would probably unite and be one in the from, like otl, as well.

That may have been the case with Bermuda prior to the Revolution, but afterwards it was no longer the case. The war severed their ties. Virginia would not desire it, either - impossible to hold, and with not local support. Its reasons for being a colony/base otl would be more amplified atl.

Before I forget again, been meaning to make a note about those flags for NN - the flag for Iroquois, maybe have the circle around the crest be the "chain" that the Iroquois have on their flag and emblems. Well-known and very long used symbol for them, after all.

Lordganon (talk) 05:44, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Well... thinking on it, I would say that the Federation of South Arabia would be a dominion. The rest, however, crown colonies.

I doubt that the otl UAE would form - those emirates, while willing to work together, only joined together when the Brits pulled out for mutual defense. The ones in Yemen, not so much. They would be crown colonies, I think. Otl eastern Yemen - the Protectorate of South Arabia - would go this route too.

Those other states... Bahrain and Qatar go the same route as the other emirates. Kuwait and Oman, protectorates.

Iraq would probably split into three parts. I'd wager that Iran gets the south, a Kurdish state forms in the north along with parts of eastern Anatolia and Syria, and a separate state exists centered around Baghdad. None of them become protectorates.

Most of Jordan, along with parts of its otl neighbors, would be a state. A monarchy under the Hashemites would be likely. This state would probably run down to Yemen on the Red Sea coast. Saudis would control the inland portions, with a bit of coast between the otl UAE and Kuwait. Name would be something like "Kingdom of Hejaz and Syria."

The rest of otl Syria, debatable, aside from the Kurd portion. I think the south goes to the Hasemite kingdom, and the north to Turkey, but the Hashemites could get the whole thing.

Palestine and parts of Jordan would be some sort of Palestine protectorate. Large Jewish minority.

Lebanon would likely still be separate. The large Christian population virtually guarantees that. Some of the Muslim areas probably go to neighboring states, however.

"More amplified" because instead of one nation, their is several. Some of which are hostile, and fought another war with them. More or a reason for it to be a base than otl.

Anytime. Will do some thinking on the other "blue" flags.

Ecuador didn't start out with the islands - they annexed them in 1832, 12 years after they threw out the Spanish (though only two after it got independence from Gran Columbia). Spanish had little desire to possess the islands. Don't see them taking them.

Most visits to the islands prior to the annexation, otl, were by whalers. New Netherland or New England taking the islands as some sort of base would be likely.

Lordganon (talk) 11:49, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

The otl federation would be some sort of dominion, though more federalized than most, with the Upper Yafa state from the otl protectorate added.

The otl protectorate would have each of its members being crown colonies or protectorates. Probably lean more towards protectorates, given their otl desires and size - each member, aside from Upper Yafa, was far larger than the Trucial states.

Yeah, Baghdad being part of it would work.

Lebanon would be independent. Probably be an important banking center, keep its status as "Switzerland of the East," so long as most of the Muslim parts are attached to another state.

Northern Yemen would probably be a small independent kingdom. For all purposes, they held that status for a very long time otl.

Yes, NN (or NE) could have taken them over far earlier.

Map...

Nejd would not go so far northwest.

Persia would not go quite that far west or close to Baghdad, and Kurdistan would not be so far south.

Lebanon would likely be minus the south and northeast.

Palestine would probably spill over into otl Jordan.

Kuwait would probably also have the otl Iraqi coast - bit further northeast border.

Kurdistan likely not so far west, with Syria - "Hejaz" is more likely the name of that state, given its founders, though the official name would be "Kingdom of Hejaz and Syria" or something similar - having it instead.

Kurdistan may, depending on how you want Russia in the area, also be further north. Thinking on it, that would probably be likely.

Lordganon (talk) 02:56, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

With Lebanon, the boundaries drawn otl had little to no basis historically. You can see a map of it here. The map on the left. The black dash line is the historical boundary, and the rest is it otl. Not a clue why the French drew the lines like they did. Like your map, but a touch more detailed.

My thought was more like it being the historical boundary, plus the cities of Tripoli and Sidon, with the south-central part on it (the blue area) added. With how we've been discussing a likely Ottoman collapse/split, the lines are far more likely to be sane than otl.

Something on the east side of the river about the shape of the otl west bank territory, but larger, and includes Amman. That basically includes all "definitions" of the term "Palestine."

The Kingdom of Nejd and Hejaz was basically the Nejd Sultanate having conquered the Hejaz - it's a question of power base being the first name. With it being the Hejaz taking over Syria, it would be the other way around. That it makes more sense name order-wise helps too.

It would be more the 1860s, I think. Call it them sending out some sort of official to keep track of things at a settlement the whalers started there, or something of that nature. More of a "de facto" thing than "de jure." They then officially take it over in the 1880s. That way it meshes with the imperial part more.

The islands would probably have less inhabitants than otl. Instead of 16k, 6k or so. NN won't cram colonists onto the islands like Ecuador, after all.

Kudistan looks good now unless you want to think of a reason they could take land from Persia, lol.

A line from the Kuwait-Nejd border diagonally through the desert to Hejaz would more likely be the border between Nejd and Hejaz - it's all desert out there, so lines make sense there.

A bit too far east with the Persia-Hejaz border. Realize that sounds like nit-picking, but it'd be imperative that the Shiite holy cities were included in Persia, and one of them is just north of where the "R" in Iraq is. I figure draw a line from SE of Baghdad west to north of the "R" and then go south to below "Iraq" and then southeast to Kuwait. Shouldn't screw with the border too badly.

Lordganon (talk) 07:22, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, they screwed that redrawing up quite a bit, eh?

More or less what I meant for Palestine, though I did mean along the whole border. As you have it right now works though.

The family ruling Hejaz was very ambitious. Probably the most powerful people in the empire outside of the Ottomans and their high advisers, too. They were near-independent as well. Call it because they want to take it over, and can. They tried it otl, and got closer to succeeding than you'd think. Given how this collapse atl would run, they'd manage it.

Yes, three protectorates.

Only-half serious about the Kurds getting part of Iran. I couldn't think of a reason for it, myself.

Only parts of Iran I can really see Russia having are the two upward "spurts" in the Caucasus. And that'd have more to do with them getting more of it from their wars in the 1800s than they got in otl than anything.

NN is not very close to the islands geographically compared to Ecuador, and they wouldn't have their government stuffing the islands with people like Ecuador did. They'd also be more respectful of the natural environment, for that matter. I just can't see many of them going there by comparison, unless made to do so.

Lordganon (talk) 12:14, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in theory it could go either way, but the Greeks are also limited in what they can do - and their efforts are going to be concentrated towards the city. The island was also less Greek in the era in question - today, it's about a fifth Turkish. That is down from about a third of the population in 1872. Concentrated in the same areas, mind.

Up to you, Nuke. Is possible to go either way. More interesting, if nothing else, if the island gets split.

Lordganon (talk) 09:43, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Vector Files
Can you add these files from Wikimedia?





Thanks for the help and when they are uploaded tell me on my talk page. Octivian Marius (talk) 00:00, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Can You Help with Error
Sorry to bother you, but since I saw you were online as well I was wondering if you could help me out. I created a new page for the history of my article on Israel at 1983 DD and when I went to post on the discussion page for it, I accidently created a new page labeled Talk: History of Israel (1983: Doomsday), which has no link to my article. Can this be deleted? Thanks. --Fxgentleman (talk) 03:18, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I just realized you may not have seen my response. I normally post them on my discussion page. I am also in chat right now if you need to ask me anything in real time.--Fxgentleman (talk) 03:44, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Central Victory)
Hello, may I start by saying I'm a huge fan of your timelines, New Union being my favorite and inspiration for the design of my timelines main page. Central Victory has come a long way since I first started working on it years ago and I was wondering if you would be willing to help me by creating some svg maps of nations in the time line, particularly of post World War II Russia and Asia which get partitioned between the Axis. I hope you'll accept and if you would like my help in anyway in return I would be more than happy to give it.Central Victory Creator 14:27, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Help?
Hello Nuke,

I have a proposal about images. If you could teach me how to upload images from wikipedia, then I could do so and save both of us time.

Thank you if you agree.

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 00:39, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

No I don't think I need anything else. You've answered my question. Thank you. :)

Monster Pumpkin (talk) 01:42, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

You know it is just a bit of fun...or at least I think it is! you know as far as the images go you should be honoured that Iam using them for my piece! CHILL OUT! You are obviously taking it too seriously! that is the thing about alternative history it is someone elses perspective!

It is obvious that you run this show! Like I said it is just a bit of fun and obviously take it far too seriously.....Don't know why I bother!

Tell you what it seems that I have stumbled on something that I have not duplicated so I will stick with that! And I will not upload any photoes. Has a Bruce Geallic Alliance of Scotland, Ireland and Man been done? If it has I will leave and forget about it!