Talk:Triple Entente vs. Central Powers (Map Game)/Archive 2

Assassination for WWI
Are we going to have Serbians assassinate Archduke Ferdinand of Austria to provide the spark for World War I again? ChrisL123 01:29, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

It depends on what happens. Probably not, but we will just have to wait and see. Monster Pumpkin 01:31, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I think it would be more interesting if someone else was assisinated for a change. Perhaps the president of France, or the King of the UK, or the German Emperor or Chancellor? Callumthered 07:02, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

If the King got killed, that would appear to similar to my map game and may end up with both games losing players. Assassinate Kaiser Wilhelm...who would do it? The PM of France...there's something interesting, but I would say the King of Belgium. Now that's interesting. The Brits would declare war on the assassin's homeland, followed by France and then Germany and Austria-Hungary on the threesome, and then the Russians would jump in, and Serbia, and Bulgaria, and Japan, and maybe even Spain! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:28, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

maybe an assination shouldnt happen at all the trigger could be an uprising supported by one faction or another or and accidental border skirmish that leaves several people dead leading to a nationalistic outcry for war, with the french and german border armed to the teeth this is quite possible. or the reason could be colonial ambitions like most wars were at that time. Nkbeeching

As the Apis, leader of the black hand died shortly after assassinating serbia's King and Queen, is could still be possible that serbians kill the archduke but it would be better and more interessting if another assassination were to start the war Barretonia 21:36, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Archive
Can I have a link to that Archive? TacoCopper

Now at the top of the page. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:53, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks.TacoCopper

Choose a new nation
So, if i want to join again in the game, i need to chooise a new nation? --Katholico 01:19, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Generally, yes. Since I noticed you like to play as Chile. you can apply for an exception if you want. Monster Pumpkin 23:31, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

OK, Thanks! --Katholico 00:38, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

I want to join, what nations do you need? Azecreth 15:22, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Choose whatever nation you want. Monster Pumpkin 22:03, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

First Voting Issue: Mod Events
This is what I have planned for the mod events.
 * Mods can create events but cannot decide how countries react.
 * Mod Events can only be created by mods.
 * Mod events need to be approved as plausible by the majority of players to be accepted. Here is an example:
 *  Accepted Events 
 *  Germany invades Denmark because it supports the Entente. 
 *  Finland starts to want independence from Russia. 
 *  Assyrian Christians protest in the Ottoman Empire only to be gunned down. 
 *  Proposed Events: 
 *  Lenin escapes to Russia. 
 *  Pacific Islanders begin a rebellion against Europeans. 
 *  Orville Wright makes a monumental achievement after flying the first aircraft. This will eventually lead to the rise of airplanes. 
 *  Macedonia and Adrianpole rebel against the Ottomans. 
 *  Pope Pius X becomes pope. 
 * Proposed Events will become accepted if no one objects over a period of time, which can be decided below.

Yes

 * Monster Pumpkin 16:27, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * RandomWriterGuy 18:17, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I think that a German invasion of Denmark would spark an Early world war...

Are we voting on those events? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:05, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm almost positive those were examples, but if not I'd have to contest the first one. ChrisL123 00:28, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Chris is right, the events are only examples. They were to get the format across. Monster Pumpkin 00:30, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Modernization
Hey everyone, its Taco! Anyways, on the research thing, it says that semi-developed nations, developed, etc. How long does it take to move up a level? TacoCopper

A few (maybe five or so. Turns, not years) turns of industrial development. That should be fine. Monster Pumpkin 22:02, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Really, 'cause then I am developed! Yay. Ottoman Empire all the way!TacoCopper

Leave of Absence
I will be on vacation from Thursday until Monday, and will not have access to a computer. Gemralts 22:00, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Have a good vacation Gemralts. TacoCopper

1905.0

 * 1) The DR crisis continues to grow. A coalition is being made to stop it, though Argentina warns that it may violate American soverngity rights.
 * 2) Italian Eritrea declares independence from Italy.
 * 3) Tensions between Romania and Denmark grow.
 * 4) Thanks to foreign aid, China is able to gain some success in stopping the anarchy.

Proposed events for 1905.5

 * 1) British traders are upset with the British Empire for increasing tensions with America, making trade increasingly difficult.
 * 2) Italy strengthens its hold on Eritrea by sending more troops to its colonies.
 * 3) European nations like Germany, France, and Russia start trying to increase relations with the United States, trying to gain the U.S. on their side if a war begins.

Proposed Events for 1906.0
Justification must now be provided for a mod event to become legal.

MP's Proposed Events

 * Britain launches the first Modern Battleship. (Battleships now available.)
 * Justification: OTL Event, no real change in Britain to prevent this.
 * Korea begins a new period of modernization and westernization to fend off the Japanese.
 * Justification: Was a major part of OTL Korean policy from the late 19th century.
 * China begins to drive back the warlords through foriegn support.
 * Justification: All the aid to the Chinese government is sure to help at least a little bit.
 * Britain expels the Latin American Diplomat after the Dominican Republic continues to send troops to its islands.
 * Justification: Britain was annoyed by the Dominican Republic for doing this. Because this was continued, Britain would do something.

RWG's Proposed Events

 * 1) The rebellion in Eritrea continues to grow as pro-Ethiopian feelings increase.
 * 2) The Persian people force the shah to rewrite a new constitution.
 * 3) San Francisco is struck by a disasterous earthquake.
 * 4) Anti-American feelings grow in Mexico, who want revenge against America for their humiliation in the Meixcan-American War.
 * 5) A Communist rebellion pops up in the Caucasus.
 * 6) The Chinese government, with the aid of foreign support, manages to score victories against warlords.
 * 7) Modern battleships are now invented.
 * 8) The worldwide crisis continues.
 * 9) The Zionist movement becomes a political, social, and cultural force in Europe and the Middle East, which call for an independent Jewish state at their homeland.
 * 10) People in Ethiopia call for war against Italy.

Discussion:
i vote for 1,3, and 4 Nkbeeching 19:38, May 23, 2012 (UTC)Nkbeeching

What is wrong with number two? They actually did modernize at a point, they just didn't modernize fast enough. Monster Pumpkin 19:41, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I vote for 1 and 4 Axyljohnson 21:32 May 23 2012 (UTC)

i vote for three and four  Iyandelian 21:59, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

These all work for me.68.8.204.28 22:35, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, it doesn't work like this. You do not vote. If you object to an event, then say why. Monster Pumpkin 22:53, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

MP's 4th proposed event is invalid, as the DR stopped sending troops after Britain requested so in 1905.5 77topaz 04:22, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Unless Antigua and Barbuda and the Virgin Islands are also British as of 1906.0, that is. Were they? 77topaz 04:24, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yes they were. Axyljohnson 07:40 May 24 2012

I object to RWG's #4. The Mexican-American War was half a century ago. Why would feelings dramatically change now? Azecreth 15:26, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually promises of regaining arizona and california by the germans to mexico is what got the USA in ww1 in the first place. Axyljohnson

True, but you'll notice that the MExicans said no to that offer because they knew it was impossible. Azecreth 22:02, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

These are aimed at RWG's ones: I object to the Communist Caucasus Rebellion one, since I worked on tons of democratic reforms since the start. I also say no to Anti-Americans in Spain. They basically got over that one. They knew by this point that it was stupid of them to go into the war instead of just giving up the land. Also, I object to #4 like Azecreth said. ~ Scraw  Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:12, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, RWG's 4 and 6 not really working out. Yes, they may have been upset immediately early, and maybe early on in the game (1901), but it's now 1906, so they can't just all of a sudden declare they are anti-American now after years of the wars being over. As for number 5, I can see a small-scale rebellion, yes, considering communist rebellions happened even before the October Revolution, but it can't be too big. I think rest should be fine. ChrisL123 22:21, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

By this point Mexico had pretty much accepted the loss of the territory a while ago. Spain didn't start planning revenge after the Spanish-American War, they were wondering how it happened. This lead to Spain being isolated in feelings of self-doubt.

Can RWG provide justifications for the rest, because I don't know if they were OTL events. Otherwise objections to 4, 6, and with the others pending. Monster Pumpkin 22:29, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Azcreth, Mexico is part of the CoLA, and appaerently, USA is against it. So that's why. Spain, due to the crisis in the Americas, would mostly use this as an excuse to gain revenge. RandomWriterGuy 22:41, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

The U.S. is not against the CoLA, just the Dominican Republic invading Haiti. Spain is nowhere confident enough to go to war again. We still need pending on the rest of the events, some of which are duplicates, I add.

Objections to RWG's 4, 6, 9, 10, and the rest pending. Monster Pumpkin 22:46, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I object to 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 for now. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:50, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

MP, this is why the US against the CoLA. In fact, US is against the DR, which is allied to the CoLA. RandomWriterGuy 23:22, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I object to RWG's 4, 6, 9. I don't see what is wrong with RWG's 10 though.TacoCopper

RWG you can't control any nation's diplomacy, so 10 is invalid

Changed everything except 4 because Mexico is a CLA member. RandomWriterGuy 03:56, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

RWG, what you just said makes no sense...at all... Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:51, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Proposal for 1906.5
​RandomWriterGuy 02:09, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) The CLA undergoes rapid mobilization for a possible war with the anti-DR coalition.
 * 2) Argentina still asks France to switch sides.
 * 3) The rebellion in Eritrea continues to grow.
 * 4) Trade between the United States and Britain become disrupted due to the DR crisis.
 * 5) A crisis between Luxembourg and Belgium arises.
 * 6) Modern battleships become a mania in navies.
 * 7) Zionism becomes widespread across Europe and Palestine, with thousands of Jews ettling Palestine.

Discussion
'''I object to #4. Why again? Man, we already told you that UK and US are/should be on the same side agaisnt DR. (Or at least I did. I told everone that.) Also, for 5, over what? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:31, May 28, 2012 (UTC)'''

over the fact that luxenburg blames belgium for the assasination of their grand duke after luxenburg joined the UPA Iyandelian 03:57, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

'''Then why do I hear about tensions between the two nations? RandomWriterGuy 00:01, May 29, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''Woohoo! 300th edit. Anyways, I object to number 6, we just invented them, they wouldn't immediatly become common, and only one nation has that technology: Britain. Everyone else should be researching Battleships, since it takes 5 years at the least amount. TacoCopper'''

'''What about the some of us that have been researching for years, and have waited until 1906 to announce that they've researched that. Me (France), has done exactly that. Enclavehunter 01:03, May 29, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''It is just that if we do that, and other people would start doing the same thing. I was researching the bomb, I just didn't announce it. See the problem here. I mean, I don't personally see the problem with France doing that, but it is just going to spread faster than the flu and that might kill the game. TacoCopper'''

Mass Crossing Out?
Why did Scraw cross out a lot about the CoLA? I mean, you could have crossed them out before, why now? Gemralts 22:21, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

You should have asked me on my talk page, but the answer is because I neglected to play the game for a while. It is not exactly at the top of my priorities list and I often forget to check up on the game and make sure nothing has gone crazy, which is basically me job. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Invasion of the Dominican Republic
I'll do this because i'm neutral in the whole affair and a mod. I need to know who is fighting who, allies, etc.AwesomePeruvian

currently the russians, belgians and americans are invading, and belgium and the us have planes and belgium has dreadnought thanks to britan, no idea who is helping the DR defendIyandelian 23:47, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Technically, the whole of the CLA/UPA is supporting the DR. Brazil, Mexico definetely. Argentina, Luxembourg, Venezuela, possibly. 77topaz 04:50, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

and  Austria-Hungary  adn the Ottman Empire are part of the UPA, so you will have a global war, and the CLA HAS PLANES and a modern navy.

when exactly did the the CLA research planes or a modern navy

Mexico has been sending troop detachments to DR. David Rain 15:30, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

We offer you a deal, we get the DR to stop and withdraw from everywhere but Hispaniola, and you agree to call off your task force.DeanSims 20:33, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I need to know who is leading the attack so that the algorithim can be done. Monster Pumpkin 22:23, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

You and I (America and Russia) lead the charge, no?  Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I am closer, so logically I should lead. I just want to make sure that that is okay with the other players. Monster Pumpkin 22:34, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

=invasion of the DR=

someone else shoulds do the algorithm as i'm not a mod

Second Italo-Ethiopian War
Reason for War: Political, Border Crisis

Ethiopia's Allies:

Argentina (Logistic, Naval Support)

Italy's Allies:

Germany (Defensive, Political Support)

(Triple Alliance was a defensive alliance, wasn't it?)

Status: Status Quo

Argentinians have imposed a blockade on Italian ports

Ethiopians on defence, using trenches to avoid Italian artilleries.

Italians on counter, firing artillery shots.along the border

I did my best to explain the conflict. Yulami 13:11, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

New Rules
So, this South American issue has been egging most of us on for a little while. The players of these nations have been claiming to industrialize into major airplane and naval powers, that have pretty much gone unnoticed until recently. And it might not even be limited to South America in this game; other games included expansionist China and India (who, and feel free to prove me wrong on this one), weren't exactly the most industrialized nations in the 1900s. I propose we come up with new rules so that nations know their limits on military and how powerful they can be. We can't have South America conquering Great Britain and Italy in one turn again. If you have a proposal, just place it below. ChrisL123 22:50, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Chris's Proposals

 * 1) Perhaps we should make a rule that states if a country wants to create A (e.g, planes) then they must have a smaller amount of B (e.g, manpower, guns, etc.), considering there is a world economy and some nations can't afford everything.
 * 2) I recall a game had information on the country and how powerful they were in terms of world powers. Perhaps we should make a sort of scale from 1-10 on how powerful and influential a country can be based on our knowledge of the early 20th century, and have them beside the country in the Nations list. ChrisL123 22:50, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Discussions

 * I agree with the second one, but can you explain the first one. Enclavehunter 22:52, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course. Considering nations have to be aware of debt, not all of them can create planes and have an up-to-date navy and have a powerful army and a large amount of weapons. Like I've done with Germany, I've had an increase of the army, a smaller airforce, and a limited navy. Especially for nations like in South America, we can't have them spending "money" willy-nilly that they don't even have. So, we would have a rule that would limit their milestones, possibly depending on their scale. ChrisL123 23:01, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks for explaining it. I agree. Enclavehunter 23:08, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm all for the idea, but I would like to see the algorithim for this first. Monster Pumpkin 23:16, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Algorithm for which rule? ChrisL123 23:23, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Preferably both. It will be hard to enforce these if we don't have something backing them up. Monster Pumpkin 23:26, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can try for the second one, but the first one I'm not sure how well that can be accomplished. I'll try my best. ChrisL123 23:47, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Power and Influence Algorithm
The way this will work is the numbers will be added (or subtracted) by an unbiased mod, and the numbers will add up to a number between 1-10. As long as the majority of mods agree, this number will be placed beside the nations name so players can determine how powerful they really are. This will also determine how many milestones a country is limited to (at the end.)

And in case anyone is wondering, I have added the highest scores in each category together (without having to subtract anything) and it makes a perfect 10. If a mod thinks something else should be added I will gladly go over everything and add it in. Of course, this is just a proposal.

Location
(Based on the geographical locations, important resources and influence. Justification follows.)


 * Europe; +1.5
 * Justification: most established continent, basis of colonialism, "center" of the Earth
 * North America; +1
 * Justification: well established continent, new innovation, peaceful concepts
 * South America and Caribbean; +0.75
 * Justification: recent invasions, resources, Panama Canal, less established population
 * Africa; +0.2
 * Justification: poverty, limited population, little sovereignty
 * Oceania; +0.5
 * Justification: few land, numerous islands, limited population, isolated location
 * Middle East; +0.5
 * Justification: mainly desert land, not very modernized
 * North Asia; +0.75
 * Justification: largest amount of land, political influence, empires
 * South Asia; +0.5
 * Justification: poverty, limited population, political isolation

Milestones
(Only add most available national milestone)


 * Army; +0.5 to +1
 * Machine Gun; +0.5
 * Navy; +1
 * Airplanes; +1.5
 * Railroad Artillery; +1.5
 * Bombers; +2
 * Tanks; +2
 * Mechanical Rockets; +2

Allies
(Colonies may or may not count, depending on mod opinions)


 * One; +0.25
 * Two; +0.5
 * Three; +1
 * More than three; +1.5

Ethics

 * Unjustified expansionism; -0.75
 * Revolts; -0.25
 * Encouragement of national relations: +0.5

Wars Won
Only if war is against another player


 * One; +0.25
 * Two; +0.5
 * Three; +0.75
 * More than three; +1

Wars Lost
Only if war is against another player


 * One; -0.25
 * Two; -0.5
 * Three; -0.75
 * More than three; -1

Sovereign status

 * Colony: +0.25
 * Sovereign state: +0.5
 * Colonial empire: +1

Population
Please refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1900


 * More than 100 million: +2.5
 * 50-100 million: +2
 * 25-50 million: +1.5
 * 10-25 million: +1
 * Less than 6 million: +0.5

Based on the scale from 1-10, we can determine how many milestones a country is limited to:
 * 0-1: One
 * 2-3: Two
 * 4-6: Three
 * 7-9: Four
 * 10: Five (may be joined into 7-10)

Example
I'll try an example with Germany.


 * Europe; +1.5
 * Airplanes; +1.5
 * Three (allies); +1
 * Encouragement of national relations: +0.5
 * Colonial empire: +1
 * 50-100 million: +2 (56,000,000)

After adding, Germany gets 7.5. That means Germany is able to have up to four milestones at a time. On the Nations section, it would look like:


 * Flag of the German Empire.svg Germany (7.5) - ChrisL123 23:23, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I think it is great, we just need to vote it into approval. I think that America would technically count as a colonial empire, and that colonies and dominions not count as allies, but someone can counter me on that. Monster Pumpkin 01:26, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Approve

 * Monster Pumpkin
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum.
 * Iyandelian 20:28, June 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Gemralts 11:48, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

MP's Proposed Events

 * Korea fends off Japan's attempts to vassalize the country.
 * Justification: That Westernization program paid off, and Korea was able to secure its own autonomy.


 * Romania suffers a peasent rebellion that is eventually put down.
 * Justification: OTL Event.


 * A large group of people protest in front of the Russian State Duma.
 * Justification: OTL Event, but how Russia will react is up to them.


 * The Triple Entente between Russia and Britain is formed.
 * Justification: OTL Event.
 * Arabia expands to the north and south.
 * Justification: Arab Unity, spice up the game a little.

Discussion
Well, there's an awful lot of otl around here. With the second proposal, I think I've been trying to improve the economy and been liberalizing, but it doesn't really matter. But with the third one: Hasn't Russia been doing everything possible to liberalise? (or am I thinking of the wrong game...) Callumthered 00:11, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yes they have. In OTL the Russian Army dispersed the crowd, Since Russia is now more democratic, we will have to see what Russia does. Since you are right about Romania, I can cancel that one if you want. Monster Pumpkin 01:24, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Don't cancel it... but change it to protests, as opposed to rebellions. That way I have an excuse to make my country more democratic, without having to first put down a full on rebellion. Callumthered 03:01, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Dominican Republic

 * Location: 5
 * Motive: 10
 * Technology Milestones: 2
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies in the Fight: 4
 * Total: 21

Allies (Russia, US, Belgium ( france and germany are now also helping))

 * Location: 2 (US location)
 * Motive: 8
 * Technology: 2
 * Fronts: 0
 * Allies: 16
 * Total: 26

Result

 * The Invasion force is success, but with heavy casualties.

Discussion

 * Please fix if necessary. I'm getting use to this algorithm Enclavehunter 00:44, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * For motive, if I assume right, it would be a moral reason since the DR had invaded Haiti and threatened invading other lands. I could be wrong, I didn't want to change it until I had more input. Also, in the US-Russia-Belgium coalition, was Germany included in the numbered allies? ChrisL123 01:11, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. I addded in all the countries that are participating. Enclavehunter 01:16, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * i'm pretty sure that the allies have more technological milestones, like planes and dreadnoughtsIyandelian 01:33, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * What ally is aiding Latin America? Remember, according to them, they are all one nation. Monster Pumpkin 01:36, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

DeanSims
I did hear from the game page that DeanSims should be tried due to his recent actions. There are two options we could take on him. Here are the options:
 * 1) Expel him from the League of Mathematicians.
 * 2) Ban him for a certain amount of turns

So what do you think?

Discussion

 * Banning him from a few turns won't do any good. I'm almost positive he said he would change (paraphrasing) but it's been like this for several map games. I think we should just expel him from the LoM so he won't be biased and implausible on algorithms. If his implausibility continues then we should ban him for a few turns. ChrisL123 19:41, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you sure? He did that in A LOT of games. RandomWriterGuy 05:19, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * I HAVNT MADE ANY ALGORITHMS!!!! I WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!! DeanSims (User talk:DeanSims) 14:20, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Erm, who suggested this? It would be nice to know who you are. And also, it would be nice if you could provide evidence here. Monster Pumpkin 19:34, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * (Based on the history, RWG brought up the two suggestions.) And provide evidence for what? ChrisL123 22:42, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Chris. About the evidence, the prosecutors need to provide evidence that the accused did something wrong enough that it would merit a removal of status. Monster Pumpkin 22:49, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

MP's Proposed Events

 * The war in the Caribbean wages on, with no victor yet in sight.
 * Justification: Self-Explanatory.
 * Attacks by the Caribbeans People's Army increase because of the war.
 * Justification: I actually have no idea what the CPA is, only that it is a terrorist group (duh). Given that they apparently support Latin America and are run by the Dominican Republic, they would support them. Maybe when the war is over we can try them for war crimes.
 * The Triple Alliance is near breaking point because of current events.
 * Justification: Germany supports America and friends against Latin America. Latin America supports Ethiopia. Germany supports Italy against Ethiopia. Austria-Hungary supports Latin America. Because of this, it just all falls apart.

RWG's Proposal

 * The war in the Carribean goes on.
 * ​Justification: Obvious.
 * Due to recent events, the Triple Alliance falls apart.
 * ​Obvious.
 * The Carribean's People's Army begins unleashing terrorist activity across the French Lesser Antilles and Florida.
 * ​Justification: Since France and America are invading DR, the CPA is conducting terrorism in Florida and the French Lesser Antilles as payback.
 * Argentina is forced to cease aid to Ethiopia to defend itself.
 * ​Justification: Acutally, this was my decision.
 * Without the nearby natural resources from Latin America, the US economy goes on a downturn.
 * ​Justification: A majority of its natural resources for its economy at this time came from Latin America.
 * Mexican-Americans and other Latino-Americans are persecuted by Americans for obvious reasons. Because of this, the Southwest, Texas, and California are robbed of their needed farmers and other workers.
 * ​Justification: Obvious.

Discussion
A suggestion by the Mighty Ian! Ahem, maybe a few protests by big figures in the U.S especially business figures, the U.S had a monopoly of commerce in South America and Mexico, those big figures would support the Latin American Nations by indirectly aiding them, trust me, it's legit, I'm Puerto Rican. Ianian58 22:17, June 6, 2012 (UTC) Note: Not saying a massive side may push the U.S to neutrality or a larger scale of defecting, but notable protests.

Who's the Triple Alliance? Also, Latin America may have to end support towards Ethiopia against their will for obvious reasons. RandomWriterGuy 05:06, June 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * The, was the political alliance between Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary. The alliance was really a pre-Central Powers. It was really the reason that Germany joined the war with Austria. ChrisL123 20:26, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Monster Pumpkin 20:41, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * So what is the choice here? RandomWriterGuy 04:04, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Objection to Two, Three, Four, and Five. Reasons below.
 * 2. Germany has not commited any troops against LAtin America or the UPA, so it hasn't fallen apart completly yet.
 * 3. Cuba and Puetro Rico are closer. Also, given Britain's attitude towards the region, they might strike at British Possesions as well.
 * 4. Player decision, not a mod event.
 * 5. Can you provide a source that? What resources came from Latin America that America could not produce on its own?
 * 6. America does not have a large history of persecution in times of war. The best examples I could think of are the Japanese during WW2. That's about it.

Reply to Monster Pumpkin on 4 to 6: Ianian58 03:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

5.) One of the big companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company This is a small and fine example, other examples can be found in civil wars in Latin America, which the U.S supported dictators due to them allowing major U.S companies. A dictator; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasio_Somoza_Garc%C3%ADa#Somoza.27s_control_of_the_Government

Check on "Nicaragua and World War 2"

Now, this may obviosuly not be enough as I think, due to me not finding the information I want; but Latin America did produce 1/5 of world food, the U.S monopolized oil in Mexico and so on, these acts though, are a few years (decades) BEFORE the game time, but U.S businesses are starting to explore great possibility in Latin America, and they'd be a little angry about the war, and protest about it, I never said economic downturn so you know. Ianian58 03:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Now number 6, in World War 1, Americans sometime boycotted German Restaurants, there were cases of Germans being abused, and if a German refused to serve in the war he was taunted constantly being called "the Fuher's puppet" was it Fuher? I can't remember now. Although I doubt there would be cases of stolen herds and such, they would be slightly ruffed. Ianian58 03:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

During World War I, anything German-related and German immigrants and other German people were perseuted. So number 6 would not be objected.

For number 4, I just did that. This was just for the next turn.

America did control resources in South America: oil, trees, rubber, etc. Losing them will be a pain in the ass for America.

Well Austria is with CoLA and Germany and Italy are not.

Britain is neutral in the war. Why would the CPA atttack them?! RandomWriterGuy 05:18, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

War algorithm + Power and Influence scale?
When it comes to wars, should we include the Power and Influence Scale (the number from 1-10) in the war algorithms, so that way we are a little more accurate with who can beat who plausibly? ChrisL123 22:54, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

New Players allowed?
Am I allowed to enter midgame? This would be my first Map Game, and I've always been a fan of Alternate History. 142.22.16.50 17:15, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hello there. There's always room for new players, just be sure to read the rules and understand concepts like algorithms, milestones, and the power and influence countries can have in this game (if you need any help just message me or any other mod.) Also, which country were you thinking of playing? ChrisL123 20:29, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll look up fully on everything. (By the way, I've been thinking of playing as Peru or Arabia, though I'm good with another country. (I'll make an account soon.) Update: Made an account. Stewdio333 02:19, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm just curious, since I'm playing as Arabia, do I play as the Kingdom of Hejaz or Sultanate of Nejd? (I'm guessing hinting towards Hejaz, since the flag is the same as listed.) Stewdio333 04:51, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

You are actually Nejd, but you have had some expansion in recent years. I know the flag might be that of Hejaz, but that is because I didn't find any for Nejd, and the Arab Liberation Flag is more recognizable anyway. Monster Pumpkin 17:28, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, how many technologies can I research? stewdio333 20:39, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

That can be hard to determine without you having played yet. But assuming you would have an army:


 * Middle East; +0.5
 * Army; +0.5
 * Sovereign state: +0.5
 * Less than 6 million (population of 4,218,000): +0.5

You would have a 2 on a scale from 1-10, and would be able to have two technological milestones so far (keep in mind that we are in 1907.) However, having allies, encouraging relations, etc. will increase that. Just keep in mind that you cannot be a major superpower, so try not to go too overboard. Hope you enjoy the game! ChrisL123 20:59, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry, I won't go overboard *cough*Brazil*cough*, besides, I'm pretty sure that Arabia is very undeveloped by this point, since this is before oil was discovered. Stewdio333 21:11, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

CoLA
Sorry to bring this up Chris, but The Confederation of Latin America has more members than you stated on the talk page. They are all marked by a single asterisk. Did you include them in your calculations? If not, then I am afraid that you have to do them again. I can help out if you need, but you are probably better at it than I am.

Once again sorry. And to players of Latin America: Does it have a flag? Making one would be useful and cool.

Monster Pumpkin 18:39, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

There is no flag as far as I am aware. However I personaly equate purple with CoLA becuase of the map. David Rain (Sometimes...) 15:53, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

AP's Proposed Events for 1908.0

 * 1) Britain leads a key Coalition invasion of Brazil from British Guiana
 * 2) Coalition troops land in the DR
 * 3) Britain deports all Dominicans from St Kitts and Nevis

MP's Proposed Events
I love how this basically becomes a competition between me and RWG.
 * The King and Prince of Portugal are shot in Lisbon.
 * Justification: OTL Event.
 * The first major oil discovery occurs in Persia. It is open to claim.
 * Justification: OTL Event. Don't take this one too far.
 * The Tunguska Event occurs in Eastern Russia.
 * Justification: OTL Event.

Discussion

 * The Arabian government, recently having an oil boom, discovered by visiting Italian engineers. Could Arabia have a bigger economy within a few turns, though marking competition (and potential tensions) with Persia? Stewdio333 07:07, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Both lots of events work. AP's are all just logical extensions of the gameplay so far, and MP's are all otl. So unless Portugal's player has been liberalising the country (whch I don't think he has), then they are all good. (By "open to claim", does that mean any country can claim it? Shouldn't it be persia's automatically?)Callumthered 08:44, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Portugal has no player, so that is a moot point. I realize that all of my events are OTL, but not much has happened to warrent an event player-related. And yes, anyone can claim it, but it must be plausible. Are there any other objections? Monster Pumpkin 23:16, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * i would like to make a request who ever did the first italo-eithopian war due it again, first neither side ever attacked the other read the tuns well i only fired shoots at them, argentina withdrew from the conflict, eithopia is completely blockaded by our cutting off trade to them since their land locked and only now is it life threatening to them earlier it wasnt i was on the defence due their aggression now ive decided to end the conflict and not to annex them but to suppress their attempts to annex my landNkbeeching 23:40, June 13, 2012 (UTC) Nkbeeching

Britain
Location: 3

{C}Motive: 5

{C}Tech: 3

{C}Fronts: -2

{C}Allies: 12

Brazil
Location: 5

{C}Motive: 8

{C}Tech: 3

{C}Fronts: -2 (Your own front and the Mexican front)

{C}Allies: 0(you are all one nation)

Results
Britain 21 Brazil 14

{C}Britain successfully invades Brazil from the north and continues to bombard its cities on the coast.

CoLA is not one nation, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, DR, Venezuela are all individual nations part of an international organisation (the same way as the League of Nations was not a single nation). And I haven't heard of any allies actively helping the British in their unjustified bombings. 77topaz 07:15, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Actually (though I'm trying to stay neutral), I'm pretty sure the French, Russian and American forces were mentioned as assisting the British in the "unjustified" bombings. Stewdio333 20:47, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

It's a, which basically means a union of nations, not an organization (for example, , , , etc.) And we've asked the CoLA several times to designate if they thought of themselves as an organization or a united nation, and no one's really opposed to the fact that it isn't one whole nation. ChrisL123 20:58, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

'''You guys have to realize this: I wrote their constitution, i know it inside and out. I don't know if they read it or not(obviously not) but in the VERY first few articles it delineates a unified government modeled after the United States creating STATES out of the former countries. Saying what was said above is like saying that California or Florida are nations that are in an "international organisation" called the USA. I'm sorry but if the CoLA doesn't even know their own constitution then they are all just plain stupid and have no idea of what they're doing. IN the last game EVERY member knew the constitution. Me, RWG, Ian, Katholico, and even Rain knew about this and trust me we were all very plausible unlike the CoLA in this game. I just sickens me that they twisted something that i thought up last game.AP'''

I know we screwed up, which is why I am currently fighting to get out of this. David Rain (Sometimes...) 15:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Location
US: In a country near yours- +3

Mexico: Inside the country- +5

Motive
US: Political Reason- +5

Mexico: +10

Technology Milestones
US: Airplanes/Machine Guns +3

Mexico: None- +0

 Fronts US: -2

Mexico: -2

 Allies US: 16

Mexico: None(It's set in law, CoLA is a single nation)

Total and Discussion
Result: The US easily invades the chaotic Mexican homeland through the North and advance steadily south with Allied help.
 * US: 25
 * Mexico: 13

This is the corrected algorithm, the one before was all wrong.

Modernization of Arabia
It was discussed that I may have gone overboard with Arabia's capabilites, and I respect the mod's decisions. Although can I ask something?

Can Arabia modernize by 1918.0, and become a semi-developed nation? (Ten years it takes to properly extract oil) Stewdio333 23:22, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

That would take a couple more years after the extraction of oil when you finally have enough money to modernize, think about it your still landlocked but after that yes oil revenues will cover alot of expenses.AP

I could settle for 1921-22. Is that okay? 24.207.15.89 00:24, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

That's fine.--AP

MP's Proposed Events

 * 1) Bulgaria declares independence from the Ottoman Empire.
 * 2) *Justification: OTL Event.
 * 3) The United Kingdom declares ownership of the Persian Oil Claim.
 * 4) *Justification: Britain claimed it OTL, and I doubt they will let go of it now.
 * 5) The Triple Alliance collapses.
 * 6) *Justification: Austria's foreign alliances are those that are against Germany's, so they bicker and the alliance is over.

Proposed Changes for the Algorithm
Okay, as Chris has pointed out, the algorithm needs to be changed a bit. It needs to fit a fine line so that America would be able to defeat a Latin American Nation, yet not allow Latin America to invade Britain.

If anyone would like to propose any changes, this is the place to do it. The changes will be voted on accordingly.

Monster Pumpkin 17:22, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

I've got some ideas, but they're mainly for the future. (I assume we're talking about both national and warfare algorithms?) Stewdio333 08:24, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) I've got an idea for something related to the CoLA Crisis, the motive number should decrease, whenever countries rapidly leave their alliance. (Political Reason, +5, say that Brazil and Argentina leave CoLA, that would be a -2, and would decrease pride, and cause worry amongst the opponent, would make the motive a +3 instead.)
 * 2) I think "Sake of the Country", may need to be lowered to +9, but only +9. Defending the existance of your country would still bring many people out to protect their country from destruction, so it's necessary that the motive remains the highest, but not too high. (Imagine the British Empire attacking Morroco, and losing, it's a possibility, but it needs to feel plausible.)
 * 3) I know it's far away, but an idea for nuclear weapons (even though they can't be used until 1945), should do the most damage out of anything. However, in order to prevent nukes being game breakers, I suggest the following rules
 * 4) *Only 1 nuke can be made every 10 turns (5 years) for a country with a rating of 6, with each turn. (6 is the minimum power needed for nukes, unless as described by the talk page on Algorithms, you're in a pact with a nuke user, which same rules apply.)
 * 5) *Each +0.25 in power decreases the time to build a nuke by one turn. (6= 10 Turns, 6.25= 9 Turns, 6.5= 8 Turns, 7= 6 Turns, 7.5= 4 Turns, 8 and over= 2 Turns)
 * 6) *If a nuclear bomb is used, and you have the "Encouragement of National Relations" ethic boost, you lose the extra +0.5 and the ethic. (Have not decided whether it's permanent, or a number of turns before you can get the +0.5 back)
 * 7) *As discussed on "Power and Influence Algorithms" Talk Page, and you have less than 6, but you're in a alliance with a Nuclear Power, if you hold nuclear weapons, you must get permission from the leader of the pact to use that bomb. Though, nuclear weapons can be given to those lesser nations in the pact also.
 * 8) *There is a potential for a treaty banning  ALL   use of nuclear weapons, if decided by some form of League of Nations or United Nations in the future. Bombs can still be used, but will be subject to heavy sanctions and a potential joint invasion of your nation by all members who support the invasion.
 * 9) Television should be another milestone, that research can start in 1925, and can be completed by 1929 by the earliest. Don't know how much it would be worth in an algorithm, so I'll let the Mods and Mathemeticians argue on that. (I don't think Radio is worth anything on a national algorithm, maybe propaganda can help in battle perhaps?)
 * 10) Dreadnoughts (Modern Battleships), in some undecided turn in the 1940's or 1950's, should decrease from a 3, to a 2, after aircrafts become the predominate way of battle, and production should cease by 1955 (not the final date).
 * 11) Fighters should be a research tech available from 1912, but can be completed by 1915. Fighters would be unique, they should actually get a +4 for defense, but only a +2 for offense. Also, Jet Fighters should be considered as a milestone, which can start research by 1939, and can be completed by 1944 at the earliest. Jet Fighters would be a huge improvement compared to normal fighters and bombers, having a +5 for defense, and a +4 in offense. Jet Fighters would likely replace both. (Modern Day Jet Fighters also have the ability to drop bombs)
 * 12) Air warfare at sea should only be allowed for when there are either Aircraft Carriers, or the battle at least 50 km past the coast.

Yes, most of those changes do make sense. But the main pressing issue is right now. What else can be added so that the algorithim is better? Chris suggested adding the stability score, but is there anything else?

Monster Pumpkin 02:44, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Down below. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:08, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Temporary Absence
It is possible that I will have no internet access for the next few days. While this may mean that my badge record is ruined, it will also mean that I will not be able to monitor the game. As of tomorrow, I will be leaving and handing the game over to ChrisL123 and Scrawland as temporary head mods.

Even then my nation needs to be looked after. Once someone who is usually on everyday volunteers to cover my nation I will give them instructions.

Anyone's help in both regards would be very appreciated.

Monster Pumpkin 17:22, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

Got your back on this one, and I'm sure Chris does too. I'll also play Amerika if you want.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 01:03, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Scraw. I also thank you for offering to care for America, but AP volunteered already.

If you would still like to help, let me know.

Monster Pumpkin 02:05, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Request to Join
Hello, I'm Vivaporius, and I was interested in joining the game as Liberia. May I? --"Truth fears no questions..."  18:30, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah that's fine just sign your name and start playing in 1908.5 !

Invasion of Eithopia (second Italo-eithopian war)
''This will hopefully be the last algorithm in its current use until we can come up with a better one. Since no one from the LoM has bothered to make one, I will. ChrisL123''

Italy

 * In a country near yours - +3 (note: Eritrea and Somalia)
 * Political Reason - +5
 * Airplanes - +2
 * Allies - +4 (?)
 * Two fronts - -2 (Eritrea and Somalia)

Ethiopia

 * In a country near yours - +3 (Ethiopia also attacked Italy's colonies)
 * Irredentist/Ethnic Agenda - + 7
 * Machine Gun - +1
 * Allies - +0 (Argentina is now neutral?)
 * Two fronts - -2

Italy: 12 {C}Ethiopia: 9

'''Ethiopia should have 5 points for location, 10 for motive considering what Italy has said. Italy's motive should only be 5. Therefore Ethiopia wins and repels the invasion.AP'''

'''Shall i redo my turn and leave it at a stalemate still? Nkbeeching, i have no problem doing so. either way eithopia hasnt been on in several turns but its up to the mods in the end.'''

(Whoops, misread what  meant.) In any case, the reason for the war was for Ethiopia to take over Italy's lands (because, as Ethiopia mentioned, "Italy doesn't know their place on the world map". And think about it; Ethiopia declared war on Italy, not the other way around, so it's not as if their motive for war was to not be taken over. Also, why would Ethiopia get +5 for "Inside the Country"? Last time I checked, Ethiopia wasn't inside Italy or its colonies... I changed it slightly, but Italy still wins. ChrisL123 01:35, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Chris your changes are slightly correct. however two things are still wrong. Italy is invading Ethiopia therefore the Ethiopians are in their own land so that constitutes a 5. Also the Italians are fighting them for the whole land(based on Italy's most recent turn). The Ethiopians win this one. Thanks for doing the algorithm though Chris, i'd like for you to be in the League.AP

Ethiopia declared war, Italy is the defensive side of the war and is only attacking Ethiopia because they attacked them. I assume Ethiopia was attacking Italy's colonies while sending funding to rebels. So if anything, by what you said, Italy should be the one getting the +5. Plus, Italy's turn is the aftermath of the war that Ethiopia put on themselves. Like I said, the reason to declare war wasn't do defend themselves from being taken over, it was declared because of Italy's colonies in Africa. And this was one of the reasons why I really want to make a new version of the algorithm. Perhaps if I am able to create an entirely new version (hopefully by the weekend when my exams are over) I will consider being on the LoM. ChrisL123 02:33, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

THIS ALGORITHM IS ON HOLD UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.

'''
British Invasion of Southern Brazil=='''==

Britain
Location: 5(already in the country)

{C}Motive: 5

{C}Tech: 3

{C}Allies: 16(Russia,Belgium,the US, and France)

{C}Fronts: -2

{C}Brazil

{C}Location: 5

{C}Motive: 5

{C}Tech: 3

{C}Allies: 0

{C}Fronts: -2

Result
Britain 22 Brazil 11

{C}Britain takes Rio and Sao Paulo, the state of Brazil falls to the British.

{C}'''Before you all complain, the reason Brazil's motive is 5 and not 10 is this(it came up in the last game as well): If Brazil were to be annexed by the British(which they WONT be), the nation of the Confederation of Latin America will still continue on so therefore they receive a +5 only. Everything else is right.AP 02:39, June 21, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''I find it silly by just one point Britain takes ALL of Rio and Sao Paulo, incredibly populated areas with massive resistance, and large areas, I understand how they'd win, but all of it? It would take more than a turn. Ianian58 19:03, June 28, 2012 (UTC)'''

Scrawland's Proposals
Since there are no objections, i'm going to start the next turn.
 * 1) Heavy rebelling begins in Brazil alongside Chilean Peru and Argentinian Bolivia, Uruguay, and Paraguay.
 * 2) *These are ethnically and culturally different places, and there is no earthly possible way that these nations could hold these other nations without a degree with rebellion. Moreso, with a majority of the Seven Great Powers (USA, Russia, France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary) attacking the CoLA, and its members, rebellion might even start within Chile and Argentina themselves, not to mention Brazil.
 * 3) The pro-British Persian shah is overthrown.
 * 4) *OTL event.
 * 5) King of Belgium Leopold II dies.
 * 6) *OTL event.
 * 7) King Edward of the UK dies, with his son,
 * 8) *OTL event, just happening a little earlier.

Discussion
By a little earlier, you mean still in this year, right? Monster Pumpkin 02:42, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. OTL he died 1910, but ATL, just a little butterfly. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:06, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Land Algorithm
Location

Locations go by distance the army/navy/attacking force must go to to reach their destination. The number indicates the number of point subtracted when an attacker has to go the said distance.

Example:

Australia size: 69 (411, 696, 494, 939)

This means that 69 points will be subtracted if Attacker X has to go through an Aussie sized nation. If there is a number in parantheses, it means that many points will be subctracted if the said Attacker X goes through half an Aussie sized nation. If there is seven, it means this: (7/8, 3/4, 5/8, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8). If there are five numbers: (5/6, 2/3, 1/2, 1/3, 1/6). Three numbers: (3/4, 1/2, 1/4) If there are numbers in parantheses left of the number, those are multiples: (2, 1.5, 1.25) {C}Poland/Germany sized (in all directions): 2 (1.5)

Peru size (north to south): 4

America size (West to east): 6

China sized (west to east): 9

Russia sized (West to east): (30, 25, 20) 15 (11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1.75)

Conditions and Terrain

Russian like snow: - 5 Attacker, +3 DefenderAustralian/Arabian style desert: - 3A, + 2D

Rocky area/mountainous (Nepal or Switzerland like): - 5A, +4D

Many metropolitan areas: -1A, +1D

Motive

The Motive should be decided by an unbiased mod because when people do it, they often use the big 10.

Technology Milestones

This should be subject to change every now and then. {C}Technological Milestones (EX: If you have seven milestones, then +7 points)

Please see my Milestones Proposal below.

Fronts

Two fronts - -2

Three fronts - -4

Four Fronts - -8

Allies in the Fight

Every Ally contributing soldiers or armed vehicles - +4 (+5 if the nation is one of the European Powers or the US)

Supplies - +2 (+3 if the nation is one of the European Powers or the US)

Milestones Proposals
Milestones should "expire" two years after Europe and the USA, but the nations who have it can still keep it, but they can now use their number in PIA to get new milestones.

Discussion
Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:06, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Liberia
Hey, can I get a reason why Liberia can't industrialize? --"Truth fears no questions..."  15:30, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe because it cannot industrialize "massively"? Doctor261  (Talk to Doctor261) 16:02, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

It will take some time to industrialize. Take it slow for now, then slowly speed it up. Whoever crossed it out didn't state why, as he/she is supposed to. Monster Pumpkin 00:38, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Chris's Proposals
Seeing as how the turns basically over and no one's made mod events, I decided to try my first-ever events.


 * 1) An uprising against Ottoman rule breaks out in Albania.
 * 2) *Justification: OTL event.
 * 3) The Conference of Berlin of 1910 is held in Berlin, Germany, to settle the outcome of the Confederation of Latin America.
 * 4) *Justification: As per game.
 * 5) With the formation of a possible new alliance between Italy, Germany, Romania and the Ottoman Empire, the  is on the verge of dissolution.
 * 6) *Justification: Pretty self-explanatory.

Discussion
Looks pretty good, but I think the Triple Alliance would have fallen apart by now. Monster Pumpkin 17:14, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

Terms
(terms in italics designate changed or added ones.)
 * 1) The CoLA is dismantled (without the possibility of a subsequent union).
 * 2) Paraguay, Uruguay, and Bolivia will be given independence back.
 * 3) Chilean Peru will reunited with Peru.
 * 4) The United States will take , , , ,, and . As well, the anti-CoLA coalition is granted ports (similar to Hong Kong).
 * 5) New governments will be put in place in Brazil and Argentina. Chile will have an exception since it wass not involved in much fighting.
 * 6) Haiti, which has already been freed from the DR, will be recognized WITH FULL INDEPENDENCE.
 * 7) The DR will be occupied by Russo-American led forces.
 * 8) War reparations for the war must be paid from the former CoLA in the form of $200 million each country. This will cause a slower milestone innovation. United Mexico will not be forced to pay.
 * 9) Brazil will be occupied by the United Kingdom until the government in hiding is discovered and jailed to prevent them from taking power again.

Voting
Members of the anti-CoLA coalition can either agree, disagree or abstain on the terms of the treaty. Write "agree" beside your country's name to agree, etc. If a country disagrees with one of the terms, you can explain why and it will be discussed/negotiated. (In alphabetical order:)


 * Belgium:
 * France: Agree
 * Germany: Agree
 * Russia: Agree
 * United Kingdom: Agree
 * United States: Agree

Discussion (for voting)
that horrible, Mexico shouldnt have to lose any land, otherwise your all just hypocryts for saying we cant stand imperialism, lets stop you, and then you annex most of Mexico, thats horrible.

It's called PUNISHMENT. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:12, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Since when do we need "PUNISHMENT"? It's a map game. It's supposed to be something fun for people to do. Not something for people to rage at each other about. 77topaz 11:03, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

No. What the heck are you talking about? Really, I'm left open-mouthed! I can hardly respond to that. It's a map game, yes. Who said it had to be fun? Yes we need punishment. Do your parents not punish you for doing something wrong? Were the Axis not punished for starting the greatest war in history? Does the loser of a war never go unpunished? Really 77, I'm shocked at this statement. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:32, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

The treaty doesn't seem to say that Mexico would lose land, only have to pay $100 million. Sorry, I forgot to add that part. I'll have to contest it, but I'm drawing up a proposal now. ChrisL123 21:15, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

its called your a deuchbag scraw, and so is your country (in the game). -Dean DeanSims (User talk:DeanSims) 21:33, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Not to get in the middle of y'all's lovely argument, but an argument always starts to go downhill when one person starts insulting the other person's character. It just means that they feel threatened and need to somehow protect themselves. Just throwing that out there, not pointing any fingers. CourageousLife 21:45, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Courageous. You see what this means, of course, and you're going to fight it with more cussing. It takes one to know one, Dean. Well Dean, I ain't fighting you, but cussin ain't appreciated here, and we've told you that innumerable times. Also, I didn'y write this, Chris wrote this up. And, it's spelled "douchebag." If my country is one, then America is too, cause all I did was follow what America did. Not to mention France and Britain. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:03, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Mexico's annexation


Seeing as how the majority of coalition members voted in favour of the US annexing parts of the Mexico, the only question left is how much is to be annexed. From what has been said in the treaty, "The United States will take North Mexico, everything up to a straight line that will pass through Mexico City." In my opinion, that's... a lot. And it's a lot considering Mexico didn't do as much damage and left the war early. So what I propose is having the US take , , , ,, and . But the proposal could also include northern  and . I guess after a bit of discussion (if any) we could vote on that. ChrisL123 22:32, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

We need to add this: Brazil will be occupied by the United Kingdom until the government in hiding is discovered and jailed to prevent them from taking power again.

Don't worry, they were captured, trailed, and executed for war crimes. Also, I think we should include all of Baja, but not Sinaloa. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:26, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Have you considered breaking up the territory into several satellite states? That way, it won't be considered imperialism, but they will cease to be a threat. CourageousLife 02:14, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, make deseret :D Sasafred12 05:58, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

If all this is going to be is big guys (i.e. Britain and Russia, USA etc.) trampling over little guys, this won't be fun. It won't even be competitive. I suggest we end or at least cool this game before it collapses violently. 77topaz 10:58, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Excuse Me! The US stated they would not annex Mexico, just force us to vote! It was not the principle we disagreed with, but the invasion. Now you are taking land. Consider: Mexico would be at a natural disadvantage what with the area you've left being the bit that is hit by hurricanes. We would not be able to rebuild, because of the debt ( Iwill pay if there is no annexation). Thus causing a humanitarian crisis, the one thing the US sopposedly invaded to stop. The US would then have to deal with waves of refugees. Would you cripple my nation?

How about this:
 * 1) Mexico gives up it's claim to land lost in the first US Mexico war
 * 2) We pay a full amount of debt
 * 3) Yucatan is given to the UK
 * 4) US gets first choice with trade deals
 * 5) All coalition members get a port each (like Hong Kong) until 2000.

David Rain (Sometimes...) 11:09, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

I know I did not take part in the war, but allow me to offer my humble opinion. Complete destruction of a defeated enemy through annexation/demilitarisation of large portionsa does not solve any problems. In fact, it causes more. Take, for instance, the example of Germany after WWI: Forced to pay huge reparations, made to cede valuable pieces of land, and military restrictions. The result: bigger problems and another, more devastating war. So, in conclusion, act with discretion. Use your heads. Sincerely, Callumthered 12:23, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

'''The UK does not wish to take any land from Mexico. If at all possible we didnt want anyone to take any land from Latin America, just punish them for being aggresive on innocent countries(like Haiti). If the US wants land, we'll support them because they are allies. I think Germany's proposal is fair. Also the idea of treaty ports will only cause Mexico to give up valuable ports and lose money.'''

To Mexico: Why don't you start drilling for oil to raise money?

I think Mexico should not be forced to pay money but part of it will still be annexed. Like Germany's proposal. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:14, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

My reason for this is that since they left the CoLA, which refused to accept defeat and led to their collapse. Annexing them and forcing them to pay would be a disaster and lead to a Western depression. Ergo, Mexico should not have to pay war reparations. Also, Sasafred, Deseret is in America. We're talking about Mexico. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:36, July 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fair enough point. I think we should vote on which to do now. Those on the anti-CoLA coalition, put your country on which you agree with, so we can finally conclude the war for what you want Mexico's fate to be. ChrisL123 22:27, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Border change, ports and reparations: Border change and ports, without reparations: Border change, without ports or reparations: Reparations and ports, without border change: Reparations without ports or border change: Only ports Nothing (status quo) Are you guys stupid? Do you not know how to read? Dammit, quote: "Those on the anti-CoLA coalition, put your country on which you agree with, so we can finally conclude the war for what you want Mexico's fate to be." NOT YOU! IT'S THE COALITION MEMEBERS DAMMIT.
 * Germany
 * Russia
 * America
 * Britain
 * Mexico (realistic)
 * Brazil
 * France (We came to fight the Dominican Republic, not strip an country of land).
 * Mexico (well what did you expect)
 * Brazil

Majority wins on the Mexico border dispute, and Mexico will face a border change (based on the red line in the picture above) and ports, without reparations. Two terms above were altered, and the United Kingdom's term about occupying Brazil was added. If there are no further disputes, I would like to congratulate the anti-CoLA coalition on their work, and hereby ratify the Treaty of Berlin. ChrisL123 02:45, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Brazils governemmnt in hiding has been capture, can Brazil be free of Britain now?
what the title says. -Dean DeanSims (User talk:DeanSims) 20:38, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Its up to Britain.

It's impossible to occupy all of Brazil, Brazil is massive, and prideful.Maybe Britain and the US could pull it off, but they would need lot of S. American support. But Britain doing it is practically impossible. Ianian58 (talk) 14:56, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

How so at all? Brazil's pridefulness was aimed against the CoLA government. I'm sorry to say this, but your recent absence has allowed you to miss out on a lot of important stuff. There was this great war, Austria Hungary became an enemy because it supported the CoLA, enemy of Germany and Italy. Russia, natural enemy.

Besides, it's Britain + Russia + America.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:19, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Algorthim for Aurstia?
I was thinking we'd do an Algorthim for Austria, though it has no players, it could dictate on how slow or fast the invasion will be. Plus, we haven't tried the new Algorthim, it would be good for an example. Ianian58 (talk) 23:32, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

im up for that since im on a defensive mainly that will show its defensive part and the others who are on the attack it will show the offensive side.

Though curiously, if GemRalts ever returns, I wonder how he/she will ever respond to Austria-Hungary dissolving while he/she was MIA. Maybe we could give her/him Austria, or any remaining part of the empire, after the war, in the very likely event of being defeated. Stewdio333 (talk) 07:20, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

1913.5 Mod Events Disussion
As we near the crucial date of 1914, we stopped doing mod events, so I just did this noticng major lack of mod events. Ianian58 (talk)

1.) The 16th Amendment to the United States Constitution is ratified, authorizing the Federal government to impose and collect income taxes. (OTL)

2.) The Deutsches Stadion in Berlin is dedicated with the release of 10,000 pigeons, in front of an audience of 60,000 people. It has been constructed especially for the 1916 Summer Olympics. (OTL)

3.) The Arab Congress of 1913 opened, during which Arab nationalists met to discuss desired reforms under the Ottoman Empire. (OTL)

4.) The value of world trade reaches roughly $38 billion. (OTL)

My Two Cents: '''Not true. The Caribbean wasnt affected at all, the DR has not been destroyed. Britain joined in late in the war, Russia and Germany only invaded the DR and posted fleets there. Nothing has been 'destroyed' beyond any chance of economic building. Whoever wrote that has no idea what theyre saying. also sign your posts.AP (talk) 20:58, July 11, 2012 (UTC)'''
 * 1) No comment.
 * 2) If the Olympics still exist in this timeline, then that probably happened.
 * 3) This may happen with more hardcore Arab Nationialists, but considering that in this Timeline, Arabia is already a soverign nation, funded by Italians and Romanians, and the country is in an alliance with the Ottoman Empire, so I think King Abdulaziz will probably stop something like that. And besides, with Arabia slowly modernizing and improving, more Arabs would rather move to Saudi Arabia (formed earlier in this Timeline), then try to make a state within the Ottoman Empire.
 * 4) Probably not that high, since the CoLA War probably took a lot out of Britain, Germany and Russia, three of the richest economies on the planet, and much of Latin America and the Caribbeans have been destroyed beyond any chance of instant economic building . Stewdio333 (talk) 03:11, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

'''I am a big fan of the Olympics so I hereby declare myself Mod of the Olympics. "I am the IOC."'''

Anyways, 1 2 and 4 ratified.

 Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 17:00, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

'''Go for it dude. Stewdio333 (talk) 21:31, July 19, 2012 (UTC)'''

Ethiopian Population
Hey, you'll have to redo Ethiopia's populaion for 1914. It was about 13.5 million are this time. --"Truth fears no questions..."  14:27, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

1: Those values are not population,they are composite Power and Influence scores of each nation out of 10 to see how powerful they truly are as nations. and 2: Why did you come back? You're on an indefinite ban.AP (talk) 16:30, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

I thought I could offer some advice for a figure I found frmy personal research. And I can still use the talk page. Unless you thought I was too stupid to know that I'm banned, and that I'M NOT DOING ANYTHNG IN THE GAME. use logic next time. An you never did tell me what I did wrong, and I never did use my three strikes considering that most of the strikes came from misunderstandings about Liberia's standing with the US. --"Truth fears no questions..."  16:36, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

If you're banned, you're banned from all aspects of the game including the talk page. Here there are no three strikes, it's an implied use of the banhammer for incredibly implausible players which includes you. You were banned for multiple counts of extreme implausibility which include but is DEFINITELY not limited to: 1-You believed that Liberia could conquer a Portuguese colony and get away with it without Portugal destroying you in a few days 2- You somehow think that Liberia had all the money in the world to industrialize,etc from just the rubber trade when EVERYONE gets their rubber from the Belgian Congo. 3-You thought you could actually acquire French West Africa(even if you did, it would quickly fall apart because your gov't is corrupt and can't handle land with so many different Ethnic groups) 4- And lastly my favorite and most hilarious of all(which is what put Scraw and I over the edge to ban you indefinitely) : You actually thought that LIBERIA could conquer the British and the Russian Empires. ha. So now you know, end of conversation. No more responses. Nada, rien,nothing.AP (talk) 16:57, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

A reboot in order?
This was quite a detailed, interesting map game, a shame everyone had to leave :(

If any of the mods are still here, maybe we could do a semi-reboot of Triple Entente vs. Central Powers, set in the Year 1914, in the same universe, with the English Prince being assassinated, and the war in Austria-Hungary?

Post here about your thoughts if you want. I want to see the game continued in some way, hoping this became a long runner, like ''Vive le Revolution Reloaded. Or Principia Moderni''. Stewdio333 (talk) 09:08, August 5, 2012 (UTC)