Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flip back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
bMaps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

Ive been in a personal union with Mangyastau for a while now, so how come it isnt on the map?
 * I forgot.and apparently, again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:05, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

The Saxon Africa Company established a small colony in Africa in 1688. It is located in the black bit of coastline on the West coast, between the small olive (Ethiopian?) colony and the whitey-pinky blob to the south. It is quite small, consisting of only two forts and one trading factory. Could it please be added to the next map? Thank you, Callumthered (talk) 11:50, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is there.But is only two pixels in size.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:05, May 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have 2 colonies in OTL British Columbia and SE Africa, parrallel to the Madagascar coast. I established them a while ago, and i kept putting them on the map but I guess they've been too big because they have been removed a bunch of times. Can you put them on the map and put their correct sizes on? I'm sure they would be very small, but I think you would be best at putting them on the map Shawnguerra (talk) 21:14, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hey sometime this week I'll fix the whole division of Persia thing as it should be shown how it was on the latest version of the 1695 map. But please keep these changes on when you make the 1705 map. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:16, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * "How it was on the latest version"? i used the latest version as a base for the part about Persia.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:05, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh that is weird, I'm sure I updated it. NVM then, sorry for the confusion I'll just update this map for 1700 then. My error for not updating 1695 and thinking I did. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:53, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Collie, I stopped expanding into sibiria for the moment to prepare for war...so can you please just...umm...push those dates untill I start expading again(so 1705 becomes say 1715 and then roll with that)? that would be great. Also, why do you keep reverting the finland things and me controling the baltic states once more? for some reason the divisions of persia, that I posted on My map(because I was asked to) with the propper division of scandinavia me and Germany agreed to, and on this map(1700) the Division of Scandinavia is reverted...yet everything else is kept in place(basicaly Russia in europe got reverted but everything else got upgraded and whatnot), I just want to know why that happened, even though I am just going to fix it anyway.-Lx (leave me a message) 22:05, May 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * The part about the Baltic, i didn't know.But about Scandinavia, well, blame Von (the mapmaker for 1670-80, so he was in charge of putting the Scandinavian partition on the map), and plus, how was i going to know that you had reached an agreement?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:09, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * We had agreed to a division between Russia and germany in the "maps of Scandinavia" section for but ok, fine,I will admit it was a bit ambiguous with people just asking for things and whatnot, but hey, now you know for sure what the propper divison is, right?-Lx (leave me a message) 22:17, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Just to say, but Orissa, Bengal and Bihar united into the United Maharajya in 1697. Also, Negara Daha was incorporated into Mataram in 1697 too. Kuch and Assam was vassalised in 1695 after 6 years of subduing. Fixed all of this, btw. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:27, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Can i make a request? When the map is updated, can the Koori Union be left at whatever current borders it is at. I have already had to tell two people they cannot colonise somewhere because of the falty map. Also, why is it even being reverted to around 1660 anyways? Hailstormer (talk) 23:26, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I just noticed part of that now.But Negara Daha and Mataram are in separate islands.it doesn't even need to be corrected.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:31, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Could someone please fix Cyrenaica now? I've fixed up the algorithm. Airlinesguy (talk) 11:43, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

The Shan Stares became Chinese vassals a little while ago. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 02:31, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

India and Brandenburg
Okay someone has removed my enclave just north of the Netherlands, I bought that land to help me colonize. Where is it?Andr3w777 (talk) 16:10, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

the Netherlands had no player, you couldn't buy it from them.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:04, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well I did have them puppetised, before it was said it was implausible (cmon, the Scandinavians are in Bengal 100 years before the Brits!!). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:35, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

You have to realize how ridiculous it is for an Indian kingdom ,who by the way has not unified the area yet, to puppetise a major trading power like the Netherlands. Seriously.AP (talk) 05:51, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And you need to see how bad it is you guys have puppetised kingdoms 100 years before the British and you have less people than them. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, you're still a backwards far off country. You have to realize that power does not work vice versa. You pale in the shadow of great European powers like Venice, Scandinavia, and Germany, who have Rambo navies and clone populations. Orissa, on the other hand, is still subject to religious conflict, internal strife, and other problems, while the Netherlands has no problems whatsoever and could not be physically dominated by any country at this time. Even if Germany tried to subjugate the Netherlands, it would be implausible because they are nearly on par.

21:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yipee! Time to shatter some arguments.

And yet each of those nations would lose to me. Why, becuase my leaders are the best in the world. I too have a navy which only China might be able to rival, and an army which I don't even want to get into. Fine, I have religious conflict, but so do all the European powers (yeah, the Germanic Church counts, so does the Italian one). Internal stife? Are you trying to make me laugh? And what other problems? If my citizens have problems, they pay and move to the colonies, new Orissan territories, the puppet, or the vassals. I have brilliant literacy rates (for the era), a large growing merchant class (bigger than Venice for the obvious reasons) and a great navy.

I am not a power to be taken lightly. Especially not with my gaining superiority on the subcontinent. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:43, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Subcontinent ≠ the world. 00:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Of course. However, superiority on da subcontinent = greater pool of resources to fund trading and navies. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:09, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The problem is he thinks he's more important than he really is. He can claim to be all he can but the only thing that backs up what he says is the population bonus. Even then they're still inequipped. Most of his population lives in rural poverty and that can't be feasibly changed by any government of the era. So you want all of us to believe that everything about your country is amazingly good? This Indian wonderland is a just a dream. AP (talk) 00:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I never said everthing is amazing. I still have poverty, yes. However, we are in no way inequipped. Poverty = cheap labour. All our armies have stuff which can easily rival the Europeans. However, there is a growing class of merchants which began to form over 70 years ago under my first Raja. Their number has only grown. My military has been worked on, and they have more experience than many European armies. I have traded heavily with European powers, spreading back ideas to Orissa. Now I might say that the puppetisation would have been implausible for the era, but you should not be allowed to puppetise the Bengalis. Seriously? 100yrs before the Birts?!! I am actually tempted to throw it out into the open and ask other players if they think it is plausible at all. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:06, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

We are the ATL equivalents of the Brits. 19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit. You haven't even united Germany yet. Plus Britiain only got to India in the 18th century. Do you even know about the Battle of Plassey (1757)? And why have you got Carniac as a part of your nation? One, it is more than half the size of your puppet - you cannot vassalise it. Two, it was under my sphere of influence - you agreed to it. Three, you are just proving my point. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:10, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

When you get right down to it, you can see that I haven't united Germany because of player nations which makes algorithms execessively harder. And Germany is a different case to Britain. England just trampled some crazy Celts, while I have to deal with shitloads of diverse Germans. In other news, everyone knows that other nations like Portugal and whatnot got to India before India. I am merely comparing ourselves to Britain in terms of power. Also Carniac is much weaker than Mysore and was never under Orrisan influence. And who the damn hell cares when and what the Brits did?

For Bavarias and andrews advantage, before i lost the netherlands, i sold him a enclave, which you didn't realized, but that did existed, you can search it between 1575 and 1580, so he should have the enclave Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:27, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

21:59, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

India vs Germany algorithm
00:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Germany
 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Bone (MV), Luxembourg (M), Spain (MV) = 1.08 ~ 1.1 ~ 1
 * Military Development: +20 - +30 (given the time)
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion: -1 (or -0 given the time)
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: X
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6 (-0 at given times)
 * Total: 47 to 65 + chance = following statement
 * 48 > Total < 74
 * Orrisa
 * Location: +4 (regular German invasion probably from Mysore)
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Orrisa + four vassals = 12 ~ 0
 * Military Development: +20 to +30 (given time)
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -8
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance: X
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8 (-0 at given times)
 * 35 > Total < 45
 * Germany runs an ordinary run-of-the-mill conquest.
 * 35 > Total < 45
 * Germany runs an ordinary run-of-the-mill conquest.

Haha. There's a reason why I picked India. My population is 8 digits. Look at the algo now. I'm still gonna get land off you. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Hey genius, this is still ATL. 60% of India was ravaged by the Caliphate and shitloads of other people were raped to the point of infertility.

And yet you forget that happened 2-3 generations ago. Fertility levels would be normal. Most of the area I own was part of Bengal, and they would have had respect for the local population. My population would not be anywhere near the point of the Europeans, it would be much greater. There is no chance my population is in the 7. This is India we are talking about, where people still have 10 kids in states like Bihar. And you forget all that raping would only increase my population. And all of them are hindu cause I converted. You really did dig a hole for yourself with that point. They had no contraception in the era, kids would continue to be born. And what about you? You nations were in a state of continous warfare with the Capilate, having ravaged your lands. I will make a proper algorithim and show you how much Orissa would win by. And just because you are European does not mean you are great. For 20 odd years, all thats happened is that your colonies have expanded - thats it. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:45, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Look, you need to fit one thing into your head: Not everyone want to be Hindu, and not everyone is Hindu, and those little Muslim ghettos you run sure aren't helping the population.

Also I was invaded by the Caliphate at the same time it collapsed, and I was re-created as a much larger successor state. Also expanding colonies = more people.

And you population is in the 7 digits - at least 7 to 8 million, because only your main nation counts as part of the population bonus, not your little vassals states and stuff.

19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

My main nation is huge. The Orissan Rajputs were incorporated into it in 1648 (collie forgot about it, he siad he didn't realise that happened), the Godavarians were incorporated this year (1654) and Bijapur has been a part of my nation (its a part of Orissa, not a seperate entity as many people are fond of thinking it is) for over 30 years now. It will still have atleast 4-5 the amount of people than in Brandenburg. What will they do when they get forced. If the capilate tried making us muslim, the Orissans are making everyone hindu. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa vs Brandenburg
Orissa: Total: 62 + chance (max 71)
 * Location: 5 (you invaded me)
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Orissa (L), Mataram (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M)): 14/13 = 1.1 = 1
 * Military Development: 22/30 = 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 8
 * Expansion: -8 (0)
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: x
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent wars: -8 (0)

Brandenburg: Total: 32 + chance (Max 41)
 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Avantage: 5
 * Strength: (Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Bone (MV), Luxembourg (M), Spain (MV)): 13/14 = 0.9 = 0
 * Military Development: 30/22 = 1.36 = 1
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: -2 (0)
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: x
 * Nation age: 5
 * Population: 7
 * Particiaption: 10
 * Recent wars: -6 (0)

Result: Reuslts speak for themselves.

~ Imp

All this shows is that you are skilled in twisting the results to your favor.

19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

No, well maybe. Yet I am adding on bits you have missed out and lets be serious here. A defending army will use every advantage they get. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't get any of my colonies, bar Nea Larnaka, expanded, and I didn't get my small portion of Cyrenaica. And then Lx came along and changed his colony and then didn't expand mine. 49.176.34.37 21:49, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Both of you are seriously over-estimating how powerful your nations are. Your also making economly stupid moves by going for places with little profit to be made. I will be correcting this situation soon. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:37, March 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Like where? I have taken Java - very economically viable. All my puppets and colonies are in good spots to grows crops at... [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:45, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Labelled Map


So I was bored and updated the labelled map. BTW this is as of 1630.AP (talk) 01:10, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

How do you put the subtitles on it? so i could make my own maps later.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:16, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There are some mistakes on that map in terms of territories, e.g. Comchellak is much larger and Arabia own all of the Tanzanian spice islands. But other than that it is good. Also Comchellak is a vassal of the Arabian federation and its full name is the Republic of Comchellak. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:46, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Its a great map. Just Bijapur is part of Orissa proper so it would be Orissa to. But great map. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:53, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

For Japan, there's a misspelling. It should be Mononobe, not Monobe. -Kogasa   2013年3月09日 23:06:13 (JST)

Thanks so much. It looks awesome! CourageousLife (talk) 16:28, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

I just fixed all of the things you guys pointed out.AP (talk) 22:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Religion Map


Since Callumthered had asked me what was the situation of Catholicism on Europe, i went to do a coloured map of this.it got big, so now this became a incomplete world map.dark blue represents Kappelists, blue represents breakaway churches, light blue represents Catholicism, light green represents Nestorianism, green represents Islam, and yellow-brownish represents orthodoxy.it is still incomplete.Obviously, this is political too, as some nations will have some state religion, but the population will follow other one.Anyway, i don't know the Arabian Federation's state religion, to start with.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:48, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian federation doesn't have a state religion, its dominantly Islamic though. Many branches of Islam though, but I'd say Sunni or Ibadi Islam to be dominant. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:51, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">There would be a lot more ortododox wrong...-Lx (leave me a message) 19:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">What do you mean?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:36, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Well, Russia is very wrong on that map. just look at the russia I made, and then you will see the real face of orthodoxy. you did your annexations horibly wrong. you made moscow a seperate state, and now Minsk is not longer in personal union. You should realy use my map, because at this point I think you just want an excuse to piss me off so you can purposefuly get me banned.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:07, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The latter is not the case.in fact, i sometimes think that Scraw is being implausible just to have something to complain about, so he can get me to quit.We might be able to work this out, when it comes to Minsk.are you a hereditary monarchy?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Russia has an old novgorodian style Elective Monarchy. The Tsar was a firm believer in Russian unification, and once he gianed the title of Tsar of Minsk through marriage, since he wanted at the least unified russian realm under one Ruler, and he did not want his efforts to be in vain when he died in case his son did not become the next Tsar(elective monarchy) so he had the two Crowns linked, although he kept the title of duke of minsk to his own family, the title of Tsar of Minsk and Tsar of Novgorod and Russia were linked. I find it is good logic, but If that's too complicated you can consider it like an act of union/annexatoin and ignore the part about a seperate Duma being built in Minsk.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Yes, this sounds like a good logic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:27, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Just saying, but shouldn't Bijaur be hindu? Considering I have expanded my influence there and introduced anti-muslim laws and the Trimurts have been converting people like crazy? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 07:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Update time? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion (Continued)
You can't mass produce coal... There is no process to coal other than dig out of ground and then burn... Scandinator (talk) 00:38, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fine.......be like that......

00:45, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll continue my petition, see Industrialization in Archive 8 CourageousLife (talk) 01:52, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. I didn't realize I'd forgotten you. Anyways It seems that one of Scandinavia, Germany, China or Venice will be the first to industrialize. If there is a tie in the algorithm here then Collie has the final decision. Scandinator (talk) 01:42, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Also what cloth did Britain have?

01:46, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

It seems like I am close to completing the general education(been working on that since like 1590 or something). Anyway I feel like if China is so close to the top then we should have an Asian industrialization part of this. But only China since it is the only Asian nation that has alot of points.AP (talk) 01:50, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The problem with China industrializing first is that Crim posts very irregularly.... Scandinator (talk) 12:30, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * So, could you add something to the chart so that the number of times you post in a set span of time affects your final score? CourageousLife (talk) 20:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I still haven't had any response to the fact that the Russian colony Novorossiya is a large producer of cotton, and that russia itself is a large producer of flaxseed and linnen, witch i consieder a resource I can utilize to industrialize. Also, what counts as heartland wars, I mean, my "heartland" is more of an area encompasing Moscow, Novgorod, Arkhangelsk, Nikolaevsk, staraya rossa and staraya ladoga, the only wars faught there were arguably the war against velikopermie and the mahdi, witch all happened in excess of 50 years ago. to reiterate I do not want to start industrialization since I started it in PMI, but I just want to see how I stand compared to others.-Lx (leave me a message) 13:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, whoever put me up there. I would like to point out that my major fabric is linen, not cotton, but I'm not complaining. CourageousLife (talk) 20:17, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the table. The only nations that i've seen consistently developing and deserving the general education point is Bavaria, China, and my own nation. Correct me if i'm wrong. Also, this is a friendly neighborhood reminder that only mods may edit the table.AP (talk) 06:51, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

I don't irregularly post anymore. I've been upping my game regarding that for some time now. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 17:02, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit. I strongly doubt that Scandinavia fits all twelve categories so soon. I don't expect to be starting industrialization, but I would've thought that Venice and China would've been higher up on the list.

18:16, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Whoa...if Maya can have Linnen as their Industry, then Russia can have the same. Russia has 1. Flax(Linnen) in the Russian heartland, 2. Cotton in the Texan colony,(resources for mass-produciton) 3. Russia is, along with Scandinavia, a Founder and co-chairs of NETA, a successor to RETA, the successor of the Hanseatic League, basicaly, a trade network spanning the baltic and beond(i.e. a market for the resource) is entirely under Russia and Scandinavia's control. 4. Russia has a substantial merchant fleet, seeing as it is a mercatile nation(i.e. the hability to transport that resource to the market) and 5. Russia has not had wars in its heartland since the Caliphal wars(i.e. no wars in ~50 years)...Russia might also have an extensive colonial area, depending on what that means, Sibiria and post-ural Russia can be considered a colonial area. I must re-iterate that i do not wish to start industrialization since I started it before...and that I will take the liberty of changin "Novgorod" in the table to "Russia", seeing as it is the same nation.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:44, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I already had like 7-8 of the points right off the bat, I just worked on the other 4 intensively. General education took a very long time.AP (talk) 01:05, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

And I thought any changes in your nation used to boost your industrialization would be seen as illegal...or something like that...AFAIK.

01:08, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

That was aimed at nations "claiming" to have already had something. For example, someone just randomly writing into their next post that their "pro-business legal system" supported merchants or whatever. That would be wrong. Introducing laws over a few years to work  at that law would be allowed.AP (talk) 01:12, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I see. I wish I had known that before... 01:14, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

You and Russia are next to do it though. It spreads geographically, not by points. AP (talk) 01:18, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, well that's great then! :D 01:21, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

So, how about geographic expansion to different continents. Say Asia. Will China industrialize first, since they have a higher score, or will Japan, because it has close colonial borders with Venice? CourageousLife (talk) 19:47, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Mononobe Shogunate only has one point, so industrialisation for the Mononobe Shogunate won't happen for quite a long while. However I do plan on having an earlier Meiji Restoration scenario say, when industrialisation eventually reaches to the Mononobe Shogunate (which would be sometime in the 1830s-1860s I'm guessing.) -Kogasa  2013年4月10日 04:58:47 (JST)

Well, I border China too... :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:04, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

The rules say that once a country begins industrialization, then it spreads geographically. We can't have two separate industrial revolutions in Europe and Asia. People need to understand that not everyone can industrialize right away, especially India, Africa, or even the Far East. AP (talk) 22:39, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Well, simultanious industrial revolutions would be interesting. Something different. And you never know, Asia could pull it off. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:57, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Let me revise this scenario. Say that a European country industrializes first. Who, then, would be next in line, China, who has more points, or Japan, who is closer to a European colony? I realize that things have changed, but this is only a hypothetical situation. CourageousLife (talk) 23:20, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

It wuld probably be China, as colonies next to each other don't really influence things. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:42, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Mayans bought some Scandinavian ships a while back, not to mention our own shipyards, so we can transport resources to the market. Also, there was a revolt, causing the government to change, which is now a more modern government. CourageousLife (talk) 00:23, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I think it is time to remove Scandinavia from the running. Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:11, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Done CrimsonAssassin (talk) 12:07, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

i think france should go up a little bit in the scale, after all, france was burgundy which should be erased BTW and that for the last 50 years or so, it has been trying to modernize in School and religious matters as well to some extent to the merchant system etc etc.Sine dei gloriem (talk) 16:24, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Could someone add in Persia. I do now want to mess with this, obviously, mod thing, but I feel that we meet the criteria for: 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11. What do you think? Reximus55 (talk) 01:31, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Guys!!! I think it is really important that we start getting this ready. The Rules say we need to decide which nation begins Industrialization several decades before 1700. Well, here we are 15 years from the Dawn of an Era, and we need to know. Please add Persia, also. Reximus55 (talk) 04:11, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I would add Persia and France but it seems inconsequential now. It appears that Venice and Orissa are the final true contenders to industrialize first but Italy's higher rate of urbanisation and Renaissance Culture will mean Italy starts first if Collie approves. Scandinator (talk) 04:16, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed, although the Chinese are there too. I would like to see simultaneous revoltions though. So even though Venice might be crimson, maybe China and Orissa could be red or something? It would certainly be a change from the older game. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:44, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just corrected Germany, seeing as to how I jacked almost everything from Scandinavia.
 * 16:11, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Mate, you need to state half the things on there. True, stuff like ability to transport thing you do not need to write about, but for general education you do. You never write anything about schools and stuff. All you do is expand your colonies. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:24, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Still, please feel free to add me. Although Persia (and France for that matter) may seem small, they would be good contenders to be red or orange as the Revolution begins, due to the proximity with China/India (Persia) and Italy (France). If they are on the chart, then they can be better represented to be given a color. Also take into account the massive amounts of trade, and in turn cultural diffusion and sharing of technology in Persia, please. Reximus55 (talk) 11:33, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Is there anyway we (Persia) could also be added to show 1, 2, and 3, as well as 6, 8, and 9. Justifications: 1, we have a large university as well as regular 2-hour school-day courses in Persian (for new or learning students) and well as Persian/Regional History; 2, we allow 2 Sects of Christianity and 1 Sect of Islam, which is more than Orissa. In addition, we allow scientific discoveries to be made. We were never Catholic, so never had the Pope holding science back; 3, in our university, students and professors regularly make discoveries. We have just experienced the discovery of Halley's Comet (and its pattern) as well asthe relationship between air pressure and altitude; 6, Persian carpets/rugs of s]cotton and wool; 8, debatable, but most OTL Persian who could, definitely had 1 or more of these; 9, we have large tracts of land trade routes and capable marine routes as well. We border some large trade empires (or are 1 nation away). Reximus55 (talk) 10:56, May 1, 2013 (UTC) (Addition: Also, 10, because we have a steady dynastic, yet limited, HoS. The current dynasty has been around since the fall of Mahdi, and we have local Sultans as well as a Parliament, and the Shah's Council.)

Alright, Russia has textile resources it can reproduce...And Russia seems to have a large colonial base to draw resources out of: Kandada, Novorossiya, and ... SIBIRIA!!!!!!! Sibiria, while part of Russian territory propper, is very much analoguous to colonial territory: resources, resources, resources. The Russians are "Colonising" Sibiria. The Wikipedia article is Russian colonisation of sibiria...but that is of little concequence. Russia has resources it can mass produce" Cotton, form Novorossiya, and Flax/Linnen from Russia propper. Russia has now absolute control over the NETA trade network, and many many merchant ships. The only thing I do not have yet is true public education but am working on it...but I would like to let Somebody else start first...I mean... I won't start, but It would give me some pride to know that I could...again...-Lx (leave me a message) 18:28, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

If we're updating the chart, I would like to point out several things. We bought modern top of the line ships from Scandinavia a few years before it collapsed. The Mayan government has also changed from an Oligarchy to a Constitutional Monarchy. CourageousLife (talk) 19:37, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

ok ROme is on at least 7 of those DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 23:20, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

only 13 widely traded minerals out of 90 arnt in Rome, and we have gold. So that can be mass produced. Also Rome has had a National Assembly for years, and we are well open on sceintific freedom and weve built our navy for like ever. And we have nt had a war on Roman heartland soil since we were created. over 100 years ago. And i still have to see what other sections are as i cant remember. heeres prroof of the minerals:

http://www.enerji.gov.tr/index.php?dil=en&sf=webpages&b=tabiikaynaklar_EN&bn=216&hn=&nm=40718&id=40718

OK, I don't think this list is going to be updated anymore. Fact of the matter is that Venice is starting industrialization.

00:32, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

you just dont want your biggest enemy to indsutrialize, COLLIE OR SOMEONE ADD ME TO THE LIST PLEASE. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 16:09, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I added Russia in brackets where I think it should be...you know... and if somebody wants make it officials remove brakets, ok? and RUssia has "General Literacy, dont know if it is the same as "general education"...meh...-Lx (leave me a message) 23:37, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram/Orissa
Total: 70
 * Location: (5+3)/2 = 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Mataram (LV), Godavari (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economic: 8/1 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -(9+7)/2 = -8
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits: 5864
 * Time: 19:38 = 216
 * (5864/216)*pi =85.288422
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Lampung (Tulangbawang)
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economic: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Coalition Victory. ((70/(70+35))*2) - 1 = 0.3333333 (Damn it!!)

Coalition can claim 33.3% of Tulangbawang. War lasts 3 years - finishing in 1653, allowing the Coalition to claim 27.8% of the country. The territory is added onto Mataram.

Discussion
Your location score should be an average of both coalition member's scores. E.g. (4 + 1)/2 = 2.5 - 3 --<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:27, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:29, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals can't lead wars.AP (talk) 05:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And another correction.you led three wars on the last 15 years and helped on one.one of the wars youled lasted 5years, the other 5 and the other 2.so your recente war score is -14.Obviously, if Orissa is the leader, and you did your editcount wrong again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

The two phase war was actually 4 years, yet two would be taken away as it was a simultanious invasion. Then there was indeed a 5 year war. And then I helped for 2 years. So -9. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

No. Your war with Malwa, which started after 1636, lasted 6 years.Then there was the war with Tondo/Namayan/Maynilla, which started one year before your war with Malwa, and which you leadered, and which also started after 1636, and then your first stage of the Sumatran war and your helping of Ethiopia on the war against Adal.supplies sent do not count.only military aid. So, -14. Or better, we could sum the recent war and expansion of both your leaders, to avoid trouble.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but the Ethiopian/Malwan war were at the same time, and it only says -1 per year, not per war. Yeah, the second part makes sense (you mean adding them and then dividing by 2 right?). Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:50, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * So you would have -8 on expansion (-6 (Mataram)+-9 (Orissa)/2).--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:08, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Collie could you respond please? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I was responding until your edit provoked an edit conflict and delayed this reply.anyway,...:

"Every year of war in the last 15 years that you fought as a leader is -1."

Yes, this description gets very vague on this situation.but i would assume that two simultaneous wars would end like two points for an year, after all your army would be very strained by the quantity and distance of wars. like a two-front war.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that should depend on population. I have enough people to field a couple small armies so they won't be as fatigued. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:14, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, not if you have two or three armies. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:11, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * But OTL, in the Second World War, would Russia have stood a two-front war, even with their population?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ok Collie, I have ended the war. Could you give me the link to the page where we can see our main edits so this confusion does not arise again? :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:31, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Editcount

--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

You were right all along. However, COULDN'T YOU HAVE SHOWN US THE PAGE BEFORE, lol XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I never thought that linking the page was an option.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, it does make life a lot simpler. I think it might be useful having the link on the rules page (in the edits part of the war algorythm). It will benefit all users. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:57, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And on a different note, would Orissa have managed to take over Khandesh completely by now? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:58, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 87
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV) = 6/4 = 1.5---2
 * Military: 16/2--8
 * Economy: 14/2---7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.8720468
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10

New Georgia
Total: 22 x 1.5 = 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: New Georgia(L)---0
 * Military: 2(existed for 2 turns so far)---0
 * Economy: 2---0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation age: -10
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: 10

Result
(87(120))*2-1= 45%

New Georgia is done.

Disucssion
So, were you trying to conveniently forget that the motive factor existed?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I did forget that. Anyway New Georgia's population is around 50,000 and since it has existed for 2 turns only, it can only have 2 turns of military and economy. Also whoever did chance messed it up.AP (talk) 17:27, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and 10x the population of New Georgia is 500,000 which my population is well over that. Sorry I didnt mention that earlier.AP (talk) 17:47, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, there is a rule about chance that says the editcount counts only the edits made on the main articles, not all the edits, and i saw that about 40% of your own edits are on talk pages. Obviously, i'm trying to enforce this rule, because nobody uses it, and the probably might be because that some players don't know how to find their numbers.because when i tried to enforce this rule in the Prussian/-German war, Imp asked me how he did to find his number, for example.My edit was a correction of your first version, which used the total number.And another thing: Dif you do anything with New Georgia before independence?The point is that if you did nothing, so they would have only 1 point on economy and infrastructure.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:47, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Why is there three copies of the same algorithm? I'm deleting two just as a heads up.AP (talk) 17:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Checking the page history, It was Andr3w.He apparently went to talk about the algorythm of his own war, and somehow he tripled the quantity of algorythm of this war.must be something with his iPad.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:12, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm on an iPad is there anyway someone could put the algorithm up for the Bavarian invasion of tyrolia? I can't do that here and have no clue when I'll have access to a computer.Andr3w777 (talk) 16:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll get on it for you. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:11, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

?
The talk page is blank is it just me or is everybody having this problem?AP (talk) 17:33, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Just this morning i had the same problem.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:36, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I've not had this problem lately but I have experienced it in the past. It just means that we should archive some more of the page is all. That will stop it happening again for a while, but it is basically random but the bigger the page, the more likely it is to happen. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:09, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think so.this page has been cut down to size recently.Just 50.000 kb, while the Mian page is 365.000 and it seems like it never happened again.When it happened to me, i went to the edition window, submitted my edition without having changed anything, and the thing went back to normal.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Same problem a while ago.

21:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I just archived the page a week ago............ But yea... Just exit and reload the page and it should be alright. Scandinator (talk)

Bavaria
Total: 59
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Bavaria (L), Salzburg (MV), Bohemia (M)) = 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 8/3 = 3
 * Economy: 10/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit Count: 1208
 * UTC Time: 15:56 = 150
 * 1207/150 xpi = 25.2793489
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Tyrol
Total: 38
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Tyrol (L)): 4/6 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/8 = 0
 * Economy: 3/10 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Bavarian victory. ((59/(59+38))*2) - 1 = 0.216494845

Bavaria can claim 22% of Tyrol. The war lasts 3 years, Bavaria can claim 18.3% of Tyrol.

Discussion
Just doing this algo for Andrew as he requested someone to do it for him as he cannot edit that well. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I appreicate your help Imp, can you figure this out? I really don't have time to.Andr3w777 (talk) 01:03, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Rome
Total: 62
 * Location: +5 (Turkey) + 4 (Persia)/2 = 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +8 (Attackers Advatange, larger Colonial Empire, Capital on High Ground)
 * Nations: (Rome (L), Persia (L), Venice (M), Thrace (M)) +14/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 4+3/2 = 4/2 = 2
 * Economic Development: 2+3/2 = 5/2 = 2
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Chance: 4
 * ​Edits: 3301
 * UTC time: 11:27 = 14
 * 5811/98= 235.785714*pi = 740.742667
 * Motive: +3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: 7+8/2 = 8+20 = 28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Armenia
Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: (Armenia (L)): 4/8 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/4 = 0
 * Economy: 2/4= 0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Population: 6
 * Nation age: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Outcome
Coalition victory. ((62/(62+31))*2) - 1 = 0.33333333

The Coalition can claim 33.3% of Armenia. If the war lasts 3 years, the Coalition can claim 27.8% of Armenia.

However, due to the fact that Rome has 13% of Armenia through its previous war, 13+27 = 40%, Rome topples the Armenian government.

Discussison
Alright, you can't claim help from Venice without them saying anything and Persia is a leader. Since they are leaders, their development scores is going to be fused with yours and divided by two. Again, you can't have 5 because there are no minorities in Georgia, or in Armenia (except for the Abkhazians and the Ossetians, but why would you care?).And your development scores are loe like that because you only started playing again in 1645, did nothing from there to the war and you can't update military, economy and the like while you are fighting in wars, leving only two turns in which you did domething.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:00, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Venice will support Rome with Greece, and Thrace lending military support. The other states also send supplies. Scandinator (talk) 12:49, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Venice
Total: 57
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Venice (L), Piedmont (MV), Three Sicilies (MV), Naples (MV), Croatia (MV), Albania (M), Montenegro (M), Greece (MV), Thrace (MV), Malacca (MV), Bavaria (M), Cyprus (S), Crete (MV): 31/6= 5
 * Military Development: 8/2 = 4
 * Economy: 12/2 = 6
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 1802
 * UTC Time: 4:06
 * 1802/24*pi = 235.8812484
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Puppet States: -2 (Thrace and Malacca)

Hungary
Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Hungary (L), Wallachia (MV): 6 = 0
 * Military Development: 2 = 0
 * Economy: 2 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -2
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7 (Slovakia ~2, Hungary ~3, Romania ~3, 1700 numbers)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussion
Well, since Hungary had a player at the time you posted, you must wait until he responds to your declaration.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:47, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Please, dont attack, i dont want any war. This is my first turn since i got back. You can destroy my nation very fast, im will not be a problem for you. Mawilda (talk) 16:06, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

All this strength lined up against a phantom threat. Yank 16:49, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Let's face it, he invaded this turn because he didnt want them building up their military or economy.AP (talk) 18:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus sends supplies and Crete military aid to the Venetians. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:57, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I hand been planning the attack for the last two weeks... And it was because of the mod events for Hungary that made them double in size. Scandinator (talk) 02:30, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

You say in your post:  Venice itself invades Bosnia-Serbia in an attempt to counter Hungarian expansion and connect the Croatia and Dalamatia to Albania and Greece. So you are now  double in size... and also:  Albania moves closer to the Venetian League and Montenegro requests to join as well. You control 2 more countrys... Mawilda (talk) 03:14, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

The Venetian League is a trading and alliance group, not a bunch of nations that I control. Albania and Montenegro are only interested in affairs near them and a good flow of trade and thus they help Venice with Balkan issues but not conflicts half a world away or even in Western Europe and they will only help if they can get something out of it too. I only managed to get about 25% of Yugoslavia to counter the Hungarian position in the area. Yugoslavia is hostile to all the statesin its area except for Bulgaria. Scandinator (talk) 04:04, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

What would each nation recieve for their efforts??Andr3w777 (talk) 16:08, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well we only take about 25% so you can have some of Slovakia, I'll obtain the Romanian coast and part of Hungary. Scandinator (talk) 01:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Portugal
Total: 81
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Portugal (L), Castille (MV), León (MV) = 8/6 = ~2
 * Military Development: 18/1 = 18
 * Economy: 12/1 = 12
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 4171
 * UTC Time: 21:00
 * 4171/2*pi = 6551.79148
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Aragon
Total: 24 x 1.5 = 36
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Aragon (L) = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 1 = 0
 * Economy: 1 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Luso-Castillian victory.

81/115 - 0,5 x 2 = 0,408695652

Castille and Portugal have right to 40,8% of Aragon, toppling their government.The war has to last three years for this to happen.

Discussion
Navarre doesn't exist, it was annexed into Aragon years ago.AP (talk) 22:05, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the information.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Bihar/Orissa
Total: 68
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Bihar (L), Orissa (L), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M), Rajputana (M), Ethiopia (M), Adal (MV)) 21/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economy: 8/1 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -9
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edit Count: 5958
 * UTC Time: 12:53 = 30
 * (5958/30)*pi = 623.920301
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 18
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4

Delhi
Total: 22*1.5 = 33 (22?)
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Delhi (L)): 4/21 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Bihar/Orissa
Total: 64
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Bihar (L), Orissa (L), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M), Rajputana (M), Ethiopia (M), Adal (MV)) 21/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economy: 4/1 = 4
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit Count: 6023
 * UTC Time: 13:06 = 18
 * (6023/18)*pi = 1051.211808
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 18
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6

Delhi
Total: 22*1.5 = 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Delhi (L)): 4/21 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/4 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Phase 1
Orissan victory. ((68/(68+33))*2) - 1 = 0.346534653 ((68/90)*2 - 1 = 0.51111111?)

Orissa can claim up to 34.7% (51%?) of Delhi. In two years, the Coalition captures 26% (38%?) of Delhi.

Phase 2
Orissan victory. ((64/(64+33))*2) - 1 = 0.319587628

Orissa can claim up to 32% of Dehi. In one year, the coalition captures 16% of Delhi. Combining this with the previous score, 26+16 = 42%, toppling Dehli's government.

Discussion
See Collie, I used the edit count thingy. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Delhi is very densely populated.. you would only get the +10 population bonus rather than 20. Also they recently had a popular revolt, giving them a bonus. AP (talk) 01:16, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

I don't wanna seem like I'm out to get you though :D AP (talk) 01:42, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

No thats fine.

I thought you might say about the popular revolt, but it isn't. If you see, the Sultan took control of his state, without popular support (I thought that's what it meant in the mo event). Well, its was a 20 cause I was using the combined Orissan/Bihari population. Even if I use Orissa's I would get a 20. I think if I used Bihar's though, it would be 10.

Oh, and they would only get 1 for infra cause I invaded them when they just formed. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:51, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. So the factors I changed were infra (cuase they've only been around for one year), and population (as they would be a 7 cuase they have less than half their lands now). I have kept my population advantage to a +10, cause we need to discuss that factor. Those were it (military and economy being divided by 1 gives me a lot of advantage ;)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:17, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

AP, I kinda need you now as the next turn has started. :l  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:43, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Cause I don't want an argument, I'll just keep things the way they are. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:24, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Temporary departure
For the rest of the week, I will be going to a place where there is possibly no internets. So, for the rest of the week, untill Sunday(or when I come back, that might be friday or saturday, time zones and whatnot), I give permission to AP to post in my stead, I will message AP with what I would like done with Russia.-Lx (leave me a message) 15:29, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia/Arabian Fed.
Total: 102
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +8
 * Strength: (Ethiopia (L), Arabian Federation (L), Adal (MV), Maldives (MV), Comchellak (MV), Mayilia (M), Orissa (M), Oudh (MV)) 22/4 = 5.5 ~ +6
 * Military Development: (22+6) 28/1= +28
 * Economy: (8+12) 20/1= 20
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: (5+3): -8
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit Count: 1280
 * UTC Time: 15:48 = 160
 * (1281/160)*pi = 25.1523761
 * Nation Age: ((5+0)/2): 2.5 ~ +3
 * Population: +24
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Yemen
Total: 25*1.5 = 38
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength:  Yemen(L) 4/14 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: +1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Coaltion victory. (102/(102+38))*2) - 1 =  0.45714285714

The Coalition can claim up to 45.71% of Yemen.

45.71*(1-1/(2*6)) = 41.9008333333

The war lasts 6 years, allowing the coalition to claim 41.90% of Yemen. Thus the government of Yemen collapses and the country is divided by the Arabian Federation and Ethiopia.

Discussion
Hey Imp, could you handle this bit. I'm stumped over the land bit. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:58, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I was still in edit mode. Didn't even know you were about to make one. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:59, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Oh man, I already made one. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:01, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in three years the country is yours. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:17, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks for the assist. :)  Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:40, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

My advice would be to turn it into a puppet state after the war is over btw. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:12, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why of course. ;) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:17, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Several things were overlooked, like the NPC bonus being 3, not 2. Also, Kitara has been around for a while. BTW this is borderline implausible because you have no border with Kitara... This is in the rules. AP (talk) 01:26, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

There on the same continent as Ethiopia, I'm a colonial power, and thus am capable of launching colonial expeditions, and the kingdom is only a few miles to the south of Ethiopia. This is a regional conflict between two near border nations, not an interplanetary assault on the moon against Zog and Company. Besides, nations have a long and wonderful history of waging war against other nations with whom they never bordered. Just ask the Holy Roman Empire. Had dozens of nations from both sides of Europe blasting each other to bits without ever having shared a border in their history. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:30, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

That example makes no sense considering that there were dozens of countries in the HRE that could obtain military access to invade a non-bordering nation. You on the other hand must cross the uncivilized wastelands of the interior of East Africa to reach Kitara. There's considerable distance, not "just a few miles." There are tribes living there. This is against the rules anyway.AP (talk) 05:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'll intervene so we don't have one of those "classic PMII algo wars". Well, Viva only thought it was a two cause he thought that changing the religion of the leader was a change of government. I'm guessing its not?

Plus, AP, his armies might have to cross like 100 miles, but with a secure supply line (uncivilised ppls would really stay away from the Ethiopian army), they would be fed and could reach Kitara. There, they would be able to get food from the local lands they captured (the Romans did this). He would be able to claim a portion of Kitara as his territory after a short war. Then he might attack again. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:59, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why would a nation not just expand and take over the uncivilized/non-controlled land inbetween itself and the other country? Seems like a lot of wasted effort. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:12, April 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's what I've been doing in the last decades. However, nobody seems to be paying attention to that fact. Regardless, I've decided to take out Yemen so as not to waste this algorithim. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:56, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Yet if that becomes a puppet, then Viva can use it to expand 10000km for Kitara and 10000km for Ethiopia. Not so stupid now... :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:16, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Once again, you ignored the NPC development scores which are 3 for each category. This means you havent won by enough to annex them.AP (talk) 00:16, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

AP, you need to see how long they have been around (4 years). That will give them 3 years of infra and a year each on military and economy. Ask collie if ya don't believe me. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:19, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but for every turn, development scores go up by 2 not 1.AP (talk) 00:37, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not for NPCs. Read the rules AP. ;)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:08, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

What aare you talking about? There is nothing that states that. One turn= 2 points for all nations. You can't keep reverting changes to allow them to annex Yemen. It has to be correctly done and all you keep doing is putting the wrong scores on.AP (talk) 22:40, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

"Ex: If a nation existed for 11 years, or spent 11 turns not doing anything, this would mean that the infrastructure and the economy were updated in four turns, and the military in three. Dividing all those scores by two, the NPC nation would receive six points of bonus, two for each department (economy, infrastructure and military)"

The rules say so. This one has only lasted 4. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:05, April 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Cause the 3/3/3 comes from 15 being divided into 3 (5) then being halved (5/2 = 2.5) and rounded up (2.5 = 3). So technically, 4/3 = 1.33 = 1. Then 1/2 = 0.5 = 1. So Yemen's infra shouldn't even be three, it should be 1. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:21, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I'm having the Arabian Federation start a war against Yemen too. However I am willing to do this as a coalition war if you'd like, so Ethiopia definitely wins the rest of Yemen that isn't annexed into my federation. What say you? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:33, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I accept the help of course. Thank you. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:42, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay then, I'll add in the Arabian Federation as a coalition partner then. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:55, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay I've done that now and we have won. Are you happy with my map on how I'd like to divide Yemen between us both? If so this war is complete. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:31, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the wait. Yes, I am please withthe division of Yemen. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:40, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

China
Total: 80
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (China (L), Vietnam (MV), Laos (MV), Formosa (MV), Orissa (M), Oudh (MV), Carnatic (MV))= 17/6 = 3
 * Military Development: (26/3)= 9
 * Economy: (24/3)= 8
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 1945
 * UTC Time: 8
 * (1945/8)*pi= 763.7997...
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Tibet
Total: 37
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: (Tibet (L), Kashmir (MV)): 6/17 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/26 = 0
 * Economy: 2/24= 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Massive Chinese victory. China may take up to ((80/(117)*2)-1 = 37% of Tibetan territory and/or topple the government. The war lasts for five years, letting China claim (x)*(1-1/10) = 33.3%, toppling their government.

Discussion
China gets 40% of Tibet's territory in a 3-year war. Tibet is gone. They had a good run. Yank 20:08, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Lol Yank. Not even three, its takes two. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:21, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

there was an error.Tibet is obviously inactive, so their chance would be counted like an NPC chance.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:13, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

He has, however, edited in the last 15 years. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:19, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. I see what you mean. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:23, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Request
I normally come home from school around 5:00 PM (17:00) PM EDT, which means I miss the change of every turn. By the time I am able to get on my computer it is normally 6:00 or 7:00, so I am requesting permission to post between 6:00 to 8:00 Monday - Friday from now until June. If the mods could allow this, I would be very grateful.

23:01, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

You can post when you want already. I'm unsure what your asking. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:37, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

He wants to post from 11-1 BST (basically from an hour to three after the new turn has been posted). Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:47, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Posting in the old turn? Why not just post in the new turn? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:54, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:42, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

...Because I keep missing the old turn. After a few days I will be able to turn this around (end of this week probably) and start posting in the new turn.

22:31, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

If you miss 1 old turn then post in the new turn then you'll be back on track again. Am I the only one who is struggling to see the complexities of this? Talk about a mountain out of a mole hill. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:20, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 64
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV)+Bengal(MV)+Lanka(MV)+Russia(s)+Minsk(S)+Astrakhan(SV)/Tatar State(SV)+ Portugal(S)+Leon(SV)+Castille(SV)+Navarre(SV)+Aragon(SV)= 23/4 = 5.75--6
 * Military: 16/3--5
 * Economy: 14/3---5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.1944678
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent wars: -3
 * Puppet States: -1

Khmer
Total: 30
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: Khmer(L)---0
 * Military: 3---0
 * Economy: 3---0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Result
(64/(94))*2-1 = 0.366344

Scandinavia can take 37% of Khmer land. In 5 years, the unstable Khmeri(right demonym?) government is toppled.

Discussion
It's unfortunate New Georgia declared independence, it messed me up in this venture... I feel like i forgot something, I did this pretty quick so other mods should probably look it over.AP (talk) 01:35, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Worked out a few kinks in the Khmer/Scandinavian side, they deserved 3 more points than they originally got... This should be final.AP (talk) 03:03, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

I changed Russia's military involvement to supplies involvement...Does not change a single thing, you still win.-Lx (leave me a message) 12:51, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, other errors.First, most likely the population of Khmer, that now includes Siam, would be 7, not 6.And, there is also the rule that you lose one point for each puppet state you have (in your case, Aymará, Inca and Bengal.), and something you did not hear about Sri Lanka.the Tamil and the Sinhalese parts would never agree to a union.And, Cambodia-Stockholm is 3 for distance? is this a joke?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:45, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Even with Siam, Khmer would not exceed 6 population points. Southeast Asia was not very populated in this century. You yourself have mentioned that the Aymara are not puppets, instead I have to unite them because they're fractured. Therefore I do not lose one for puppets on that one. I annexed the Incan puppet state after 70+ years of domination plus they had no successor a while ago like a few years. Bengal would be the only puppet i'd lose points on. I kept the divisions of Lanka to prevent strife, but I can keep the peace and suppress any religious violence with a colonial army that I placed there recently. As for the expansion, the Saami expanded not my main nation. Also, since we(Scandinavia and Portugal) are in personal union and share the same ruler we kinda have a necessity to aid each other in wars... at least supplies. This should be right.AP (talk) 23:32, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

When i said that the Aymará were puppets, i was talking about the Aymará chief that is sponsored by you, that one in OTL Chile. the rest of the Aymarás isn't.But the expansion was not because of the Saami.it was, since you have 3 points on recent wars, i figured that those were because of the New Georgian war, which counted as expansion.And what i'm saying about Sri Lanka, is that it should be easier to unite Sitawaka and Kandy.after all, they're both Sinhalese and their diviosion is all about a dynastic dispute.Still, even if you did that, Jaffna wouldn't agree, and this doesn't condition you to call that Lanka.Ah, and about the Inca, I still need confirmation about that, as the rules say nothing about that.Ah, and something else; you can't annex stable nations with no war (referring to what i think you are trying to do with the Miami.)--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:12, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

As for the Myami Kingdom, I guess I'll just surround them with the nearest colony and then invade. But that will be much later since I've had 2 wars recently(this one and the New Georgian reconquest).AP (talk) 17:11, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Everything was fine. This was already done, don't change an algorithm once its dead and gone.AP (talk) 23:52, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Russia
Total: 58
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6(5+1)
 * Strength: Russia(L)/Minsk(M)/Tatar(MV)/Astrakhan(MV) = 11/4 ~3
 * Military Development: 10/6 = ~2
 * Economy: 8/2 = 4
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: 7(Ukrainians stripping citizenship of Russians)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count:2202
 * UTC Time: 3:52
 * (2202/30)*pi = 230.5 9 290
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Puppets: -1
 * Population: 18(10+8)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Ukraine
Total: 32
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Ukraine = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 6 = 0
 * Economy: 2 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edit Count: 2202
 * UTC Time: 3:52
 * (2202/30)*pi = 230.59 2 90
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
Tactical Russian Victory. Russia gets at most (((59/91)-0.5)*2)*100%=29.67% Of Ukraine, with a 3 year war, Russia gets 29.67*0.8333=24.725% of Ukraine, with a 4 year war, 29.67*8.75=25.96125, enough to capture the capital, Kiev, and some very much needed agricultural Land, and perhaps access to he black sea/crimea if the lands are devided in the right way. Not too sure how much that is in pixel value yet.

Discussions
Alright, this nation just became a player nation...so...does it get an NPC bonus from when it was NPC, or does it get 0 in those categories, or does it get 2 pts in each category as if it were player state for past years of what, is his one year of military dev added to NPC bonus? I am confused on what to do about that...thats why I put "?" next to certain numbers-Lx (leave me a message) 03:47, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

We count both.he gets two for the years when he was a player nation (two), and the gets one for the years he was a NPC (13).--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:06, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Alright. I think I did the NPC thing right, but just somebody taht actualy knows how to do NPC bonus, can you check it?-Lx (leave me a message) 13:01, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Archive
We need another one for the page. Its been more than 30 years. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:30, April 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't matter. Its done. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:25, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram
Total: 71
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Mataram (L), Negara Daha (MV), Cebu (M)) 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 22/2 = 11
 * Economic: 8/2 = 4
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 6023
 * Time: 13:06 = 18
 * (6023/18)*pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Lampung (Tulangbawang)
Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/22 = 0
 * Economic: 2/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Matarami Victory. ((71/(71+31))*2) - 1 = 0.39215686

Mataram can claim 39% of Lumpang. In one year, they capture 19.5% of the nation. Combining it with their previous score of 27.8%, (47.3%) they topple Lampung's government and add it onto their nation.

Discussion
How I got the NPC thing? 11/3 = 4; 4/2 = 2  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:11, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram's population is not nearly as high as you claim it to be. You can't always assume a +20 bonus every algorithm.AP (talk) 01:07, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Java is the most densly populated island in the whole of Indonesia. Add that to almost half of Sumatra. And look at the size of the country I am invading, its tiny. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:37, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Gulf of Mexico Division
We had previously agreed on a division for the Gulf of Mexico, correct? I am asking because it's not represented on the map at all like we had said. I know, as the Mayans, that I have land south of the Rio Grande, if the proposal holds. I would just like to confirm that this agreement still stands. CourageousLife (talk) 19:14, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

The agreement kind of just...died. But I'll be up for a redraw. I propose that Novogrodian/Cypriot territory is split equally along the coastline between Venice and the Maya. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:18, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. I didn't know what the deal was with the Cyprus/Crete expansion, but they crossed the Rio Grande according to Collie, which I thought we had agreed on. It also may be that Collie just doesn't know where the expansion is going. CourageousLife (talk) 01:55, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't exactly written 'X colony expands X kilometres (direction)' but yeah, I see your point. I propose the borders between Novogrod and Cyprus be either the Colorado or Brazos rivers. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:52, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

The only border that concerns me is the Rio Grande. If you'll agree to that, then we can lock in that part of the deal. CourageousLife (talk) 21:14, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Ya, the not expanding by the rio grande may have been my fault. While trying to fix collie's mistakes I might have(I did) relocated Cypriot lands arbitrarily, and as easily as I could. I followed the border wanting to speed things up and get my map out before sombody else posts their corrections and I have to restart with the downloading and the editing. All you need to do to fix is just follow rio grande, and ctrl-c ctrl-v the lands past the rio onto the Rio, or just ignore those encroaching lands altogether and expand onto the rio so that it is easier to add future expansion. Brazos river might work. Me and venice already agreed on the missisipi as our border.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:41, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

So you're all on board with these borders? CourageousLife (talk) 01:17, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I am. I'm presuming I get the area next to the Maya, and Novogrod gets the area next to Venice. Airlinesguy (talk) 01:34, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Russia
Total: 53
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6(1+5)
 * Strength: Russia(L)/Minsk(M)/Tatar(MV)/Astrakhan(MV) = 11/4 ~3
 * Military Development: 16/5 ~ 3
 * Economy: 10/2 = 5
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: 7(Ukraine continued ethnic war against Russians)
 * Chance: 4
 * Edit Count: 2213
 * UTC Time: 00:00
 * 2213*pi = 6952.3 4 4
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Puppets: -1
 * Population: 18(10+8)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Ukraine
Total: 37
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Ukraine(L) = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10(Russia tries to kill Ukraine)
 * Chance:4(see russia chance)
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1
 * Recent Wars: -1

Result
Russian Vicotry. With 25% previously, Russia can gain at most (((53/90)-0.5)*2)*100% = 17.777%

With a 1 year war, Russai can gain 8.888%=25% = 33.88%, enough to annex Ukraine

Another Discussion
Most obvious metagaming I have ever seen.

00:10, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Explain how its metagaming.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:37, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

This happens right after I secretely plan to take over Ukraine and you ask me about it.

00:47, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Im sorry but i was planning to take over Ukraine for a much longer time than you...at least since before I first invaded Sibir and that was what? a month ago?. What made me declare war now in particular is the fact that the person that was Ukraine decided to restart his discriminatory policies, therfore giving me a very easy 7 in the algorithm motive.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:52, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw's "tricks" on Ukraine and Poland woudnt fly with the mods. That's considered vassalizing and Poland is much larger than half of his nation, not to mention that even if he could take over Poland like that it certainly wouldnt work again with Ukraine.AP (talk) 07:06, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

OK. I'll stick with Poland. 20:57, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I put 4 for chance since the Player no post-Lx (leave me a message) 20:35, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Persia
Total: 37
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Persia (L), Armenia (MV), Kuwait (MV) Khafji (M)  Azerbaijan (MW)): 13/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 4/3 = 1
 * Economy: 4/3 = 1
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 4
 * Edit Count: 87
 * UTC Time: 8:01 = 8
 * (87/8)*pi = 0.3412
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6

Bagdad
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Bagdad (L)): 4/13 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/4 = 0
 * Economy: 3/4 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
The results are as follows (take notes Rex).

((51/(51+35))*2) - 1 = 1.18604651 - 1 = 0.18604651

Therefore Persia can claim 19% of Baghdad overall. It depends on how long the war lasts which will allow them to claim their real total from their allowed (19%) one.

If their war lasts 3 years, they can claim ((19)*(1-1/(2*3))) 15.83% of Baghdad. If the war lasts 4 years, they can claim ((19)*(1-1/(2*4))) 16.63% of Baghdad.

Discussion
Alright, next time you do an algorythm, can you mind not making them in table form? It's confusing.I also corrected various errors.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:23, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah please don't use a table format in the future, just use the same list format that every other algorithm uses please. Its easier to follow that way and you don't have to bother with all that table code. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:24, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Persia's population warrants the +20, maybe the +10. Also, their motive should be 3, not 7.AP (talk) 01:52, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Nah, they are huge. Although I do wonder why Rex's motive was 7. It woulod probably be better as 3... :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:30, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with both AP & Imp. I think the population is about 7 times bigger (not 10) and also the motive would be a 3 for economic rather than 7 for religion. I have changed the algorithm accordinly. Now more worringly is how he is acting in game like he's won the war & annexed all of Baghdad. Especially seeing how those two changes made Persia's victory a minor one. What should we do about that now? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 12:08, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

The classic cross outs. And I'll probably message him about it as well. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:24, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

German-Venetian-Orissan Coalition

 * Location: +4 (German border with Denmark and Pomerania)
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Strength: (Germany (L), Venice (L), Orissa (L), Russia(L), Minsk(M), Tatar(MV), Astrakhan(MV), Luxembourg (M), Vinland (MV), Poland (MV), Mysore (MV), Nation X below former Carnatic (MVV), Yugoslavia (MV), Croatia, Greece, Naples, Piedmont, Thrace, Sicilies (MV*6), Bavaria (M), Bohemia (MV), Saxon Lands (M), Magdeburg (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Nepal (MV), Carnatic (MV), Sumendang (M), Cebu (M), Negara Daha (MV), China (M), Vietnam (MV), Laos (MV), Formosa (MV), France (M): 87(currently)/20 = ~ 4
 * Military Development: 32/30 = 1
 * Economy: 24/0 = 14
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -2
 * Motive: +7 (Orissa's motive is to free Bengalis)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 6117
 * UTC Time: 04:39
 * 6117/108*pi = 117.396.....
 * Nation Age: +5, +5, 0, 0
 * Population: +29
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Total: 100*1.5 = 150

Scandinavia

 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Scandinavia (L), Saami (MV), New Georgia (MV), Bengal (MV), Khmer (MV), Scottland (MV)/Russia(MW)/Minsk(MW)/Tatar(MVW)/Astrakhan(MVW)= 20 ~ 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy: 0/24 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance: 6
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -5
 * Total: 30

Results
Scandinavia is brutally crushed. ((150/(179))*2) - 1 = 0.676977

The coalition can claim 68% of Scandinavia. The war lasts two years, and allows the coalition to claim 50.7% of Scandinavia, toppling their government.

The Coalition will now decide the land division, as we have toppled their government.

Discussion
Do not want Scan or AP editing this, because they'd be the mods who would be fighting this war, and clearly anyone would try to tweak it. I'll only be adding additions to the so-called "World Coalition" (German/Italian side). Maybe other mods like Von or Collie could edit it.

just a question: why does the italian side get a *1.5 bonus, As far as I know, neither Venice, nor Germany have suffered a popular uprising with a charismatic leader in the past 10 years, and, as far as I know, just changing your system of governement by democratization does not entitle anyone to a *1.5 bonus-Lx (leave me a message) 05:51, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think they thought that Yugoslavia's government change counted, but since they aren't leaders, they don't count.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:28, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus and Crete provide full military support. Airlinesguy (talk) 08:55, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Um... Venice has not had a government change. We were a constitutional monarchy, we still are a constitutional monarchy. Its just that instead of 20 people in parliament it is 300. I don't wish to edit the algorithm since people may think I'm cheating so can someone else do it? Scandinator (talk) 16:42, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Germany had a revolution. 17:22, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

When?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:38, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I have to look, but it was not too long ago. Sometime in the 1660s.

18:04, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Is it that part about the "dead king's son revealing himself to be alive"?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:41, April 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Doesn't count? :/


 * 20:51, April 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think so.your case sounds more like a succession crisis.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:31, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I would join Scandinavia, but I'd be dead if I did. Well, if there getting  crushed, I wouldn't mind getting gibraltar eventually. Willster22 (User talk:Willster22) 18:55, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I also agreed to be joining in, as a leader, and I have had a popular parliament set up, so that means another 1.5. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:14, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I can edit but I do want the Arabian Federation to join the coaltion to take advantage of the war to take over Scandivinia's East African colony. Though I think I can be neutral & unbiased enough to do this fairly, because unlike some of you people I don't take this all so seriously that I'd cheat.

But seeing how AP is now leaving the game then we could just dismantle his empire using some mod events and give all the nation's fighting a penalty. E.g. we assume this war lasts 4 years, divide the territory up, give independence to unclaimed territories, apply the the recent war penalty to nation's fighting and just skip out the algorithm. I suggest this not to cheat but to save our previous time & effort as we all know that Scandivia will now collaspe from this war so the need to do all this isn't exactly there. We don't have to do this but it's certainly easier. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:25, April 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Why would be get a penalty? Also Scan, Imp, and I have already arranged the land divisions. You may join and take East Africa if you want, because we were planning to dismantle it and ship all the people off as slaves. ~ Scraw 20:51, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because your fighting a war duh. That penalty was just to represent the normal war penalty you get when you do a war algorithm, but since I was saying why bother with an algorithm because all parties involved agree to it spliting up but we'd still need a war penalty. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:11, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:41, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I will like to be part so i can get scotia. Quashi (talk) 20:47, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Erm...sorry, you can join, but you won't be getting Scotland. That's mine.

20:51, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

@Von, I see your point. Let us first see the algo, then decide on the outcome of the war. It would be fairer as we would get to see which way is best. And if we deicide to do it your way, could we please respect AP's last wishes?

@Scraw, I think Viva is going to be interested in the small enclave off East Africa.

So, yeah. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:21, April 13, 2013 (UTC

For the record, here is AP's divison:


 * Scandinavia proper: ?
 * Karelia: Lx
 * Nya Sverige: Scraw and Scan
 * Nye Norge: Scraw
 * Nya Denmark: Scraw and Collie, from what i understand.
 * East Africa: Collie and Von
 * Siam/Khmer: NPC, or Lx, if possible.
 * Eriksmark: not mentioned
 * Ost Pekar: Vivaporius
 * Finland/Saami: Lx
 * Schleswig: Andr3w and Callum
 * Inca: Collie
 * Aymará puppet: Collie
 * Scotland: NPC
 * Bengal: Imp
 * Lanka: Imp

--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:25, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

He said Bengal and Lanka to me (I added it onto your list). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:31, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em;">And why is AP doing this? He is losing the war. I don't really care if he's leaving or not, we have to follow the standard way of doing things. Meaning the winners call the shots.

Here's our list. Anything else will be decided by the leaders of the war: Imp, Scan, and myself.
 * South Scandinavia: Germany
 * North Scandinavia: Russia
 * Pennsylvania+Ohio: Germany
 * Virginias+Maryland: Italy
 * Maine/Nova Scotia: Germany and Russia
 * Hudson Bay: Germany
 * Newfoundland and Labrador: Vinland
 * Gibraltar: Italy
 * East Africa (Swahili): Arabia & Portugal
 * Horn of Africa: Arabia and Italy
 * Schleswig: Germany
 * Scotland: Germany or independence
 * Faroes: One for Saxony, one for Bavaria (as naval bases or whatever)
 * Inca (north, small): Germany
 * Inca (south, large): China
 * Aymara puppet (north, half): Germany
 * Aymara puppet (south, half): Italy
 * Bengal: Orissa
 * Lanka: Mysore

Again, I have no idea where AP gets off dictating the spoils of a war that he lost horribly.

21:41, April 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, actualy, what AP can do is have Scandinavia pull a France: "sell" russia the territory and other nations the territory he said because he does not want it to fall to venice and whatnot, like what france did to louisianna: sell it to spain during the 7 years war..(.witch spain later sold to france, witch they sold to america...)...but then again, the nova scotia colony would be better on Russia than on anyone else with Kanada and whatnot...-Lx (leave me a message) 04:06, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Also, I want the island next to Mataram which is in Scandinavian control. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:46, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Damn, Khmer's out of the war. :(  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:50, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I'll join if I get Inca (I had planned on invading it anyway before AP got to it) CrimsonAssassin (talk) 22:44, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

We need Scraw and Scan here. I think you might be able to get a slice, Crim. Plus, I would like more (c'mon, all I'm getting is Bengal and a small island) as I am a pretty significant member in the coalition. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:47, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus and Crete provide full military support to Brandeburg. Airlinesguy (talk) 22:50, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Crim, if you join, you can have parts of my Incan territory. Also Imp, we can split the Khmer country.

23:05, April 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Division_of_khmers_(PMII).png! I would like some land on the east though, as I am pretty sure Scan would be very keen on the western strip of land. Btw, could you leave the southernmost Lankan state for me (as they are Singhala, and I have Bodh Gaya under Bihar). You can have the top two states for Mysore (no objection from me). That's all. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:23, April 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Would this be fine? [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:50, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure.
 * 23:58, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 23:58, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Hey France is also in the war, i promised Scraw i would do it. just that i wasn't here before Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:11, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I'll throw Ethiopia's belt into the ring for a piece of this action. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:48, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Um, Instead of the Southern Incas and Northern Aymara, can Venice take just Southern Aymara? Scandinator (talk) 02:17, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Fyen.

02:23, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Russia has made the deathly mistake of supporting Russia, so I'll take the gains, as they are closest to my ganis.

04:04, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Russia supporting Russia?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:21, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Bavaria requests control of Shlesweig or some regions near there. Control over some Islands would be nice. On a seperate note, Bavaria is willling to purchase any conquered colony from Germany. 04:22, April 14, 2013 (UTC)Andr3w777 (talk)


 * Sorry, I'm taking all of the mainland, but I can give you and Saxony both lots of islands off the coast of Scotland, which you can use to maintain navies and launch explorations from. :D 16:25, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Something else: If the nation ages of the leaders are 5, 5 and 0, so why there is a 1.5 bonus then?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:21, April 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's when you do all the subtraction and adding and stuff. 16:25, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Could I have something too then? I don't really care what it is, lol. But preferably the Swahili states or some of Scandinavian Asia. Airlinesguy (talk) 08:53, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Well, a popular parliament was set up, so the people bonus, and the Raja complied (so the government wasn't changed). However, because a new government will have to be placed, as soon as the Raja dies (will be soon) the Parliament will take matters into their own hands and put "their" favoured Raja on the parliament (gov. change), cause the Rules don't say you have to do this immideately (even Hitler took like 4 years to cange his government - Napoleon even more time). There. Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:39, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

But the rules say explicitly that to get this bonus, it is necessary a government change.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 13:56, April 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * That is a government change. 16:25, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Russia joined as a plausible way to get the territory inteded for Russia-Lx (leave me a message) 15:57, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw you're missing the point of a lot of what is being said by AP & others. He is leaving so he is dividing up his territory between the people who want it. Your list is irrelevent. The Arabian Federation is also missed out of this algorithm so I've added them into it as I've been eyeing up East Africa for a while now & said earlier on that I will be taking part in this war.<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 20:55, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I really want someone to explain why it matter what AP said. Who cares if he's leaving? We're fighting a war. We won. He lost. What does it matter what he says?

20:58, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

OMG he intended to lose this war from the very start because he was leaving! This is just a formality. Its not like a nation would just willingly split itself up. Also watch your edits, you deleted my last post. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:05, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

So? That would be OOC. I really have no idea what is going on with this whole "AP said" thing. Also I didn't delete it, I moved it.

21:09, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sort of, but we should respect his wishes on how he'd like to have his empire split up. It's a fair enough division anyway. And you did delete it see? I wouldn't have said it got deleted if it didn't. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:17, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why? Call me stupid, but I see no reason to follow his divisions. That would be OOC. Oh, my bad. I was going to move it to the bottom but forget to re-paste it.
 * 21:25, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Its the proper thing to do. What is more OOC is the territories that your nations want or are claiming. Not to mention these territories wouldn't agree to being taken over like this. Scandivia would split up into Sweden, Norway & Demark. They wouldn't let the Germans just waltz in & take over. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:41, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * What on earth are you talking about? That is exactly what has been done in every war since the first PM game. I fight the war. I do the algorithm. I win by > 33.33%. I/we do what we want with the land. God...
 * 22:46, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

''East Africa. MINE...'' Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:14, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

''East Africa. YOURS...''  21:25, April 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think so, I've called it from the start of this war. Plus I'm actually fighting in it unlike you Viva. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:41, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds like you've got a personal problem. Read through this whole section and you'll see that I am fighting in the this like you. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:29, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw, lets be serious here. Do you really want the frigid north of Scandinavia? The Russians can have it, me thinks. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:19, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Besides, its not like your missing out on anything, your taking everything else already. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:14, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Eh...I was going to make it a puppet state and then release it...

23:24, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Why wasn't france added, i said i was going to help Scraw, the thing is that i wasn't logged in when he said i will war with Scandinavia,Could someone add me to the algorythm Please Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:14, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Inactivity Notice
I may post a lot more irregularly and might even disappear over the next 3 weeks as I have to take care of my little brother and the house as my father works full time and my mother is on a business trip in Asia. I am also a full-time uni student with a part-time job and therefore I have absolutely no time for anything. Please do not fret if I disappear and I ask that you do not seek to take advantage of my situation, I will return to posting regularly after my mid-semester exam and faculty camp on the 5th of May. Scandinator (talk) 16:58, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Look's like we're going to need some new mod elections soon for sure then. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:44, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Just a thing
Could the mods not break up Fed's nation. He will be returning, it is that he has a lot of schoolwork and exams to do and has also developed a crazy addiction to the game CK2. He has stated all this in a blog. So, yeah. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:28, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I shalln't break it up, but warn him that Persia is looking to take over Syria, which being the heart of his empire, would ruin his empire. The mods may not break up his empire but other players may well do. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:36, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

He would not be able to do so. And Rex wants to open up relations with the Laventines though. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:39, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Persia wants Syria which is the heart of the Laventine empire. Its just not viable to willingly give up your heart-land. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:42, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa
Total: 92*1.5 = 138
 * Location: 4 (through Malacca)
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Orissa (L), Carnatic (MV), Bihar (M), Nepal (MV), Oudh (MV), Bengal (M), Mataram (M), Venice (M), Rajputana (M), Ethiopia (M)): 28/4 = 7
 * Military Development: 16/1 = 16
 * Economy: 14
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -2
 * Motive: 5 (helping Hindus)
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit Count: 6231
 * UTC Time: 21:37 = 42
 * (6231/42)*pi = 466.07771010
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Khmer
Total: 29+15 = 44
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Khmers (L)): 4/22 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/16 = 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Orissan victory. ((138/(138+44))*2) - 1 = 0.516483516

Orissa can claim 51.6% of the Khmer empire. The war lasts 2 years, and the Orissans can claim 38.7% of the nation, toppling their government.

Discussion
Imp your non-stop expansion is getting ridiculous now. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:43, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

It was meant to be a coalition thing, not me alone. I'm kinda waiting for them. If they do not agree, then I veto the whole war. Deal? Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:45, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Its better but your nation is running on fumes now. Far too much expansion, wars, revolts, etc. Calm it down for a while soon. Who is in this coaltion btw? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!)

Scan'n Scraw. We were going to take out the Khmers anyway. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:53, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I'm normally one to ignore Orissa's expansion, but this is absurd. I can understand you claiming the Indian subcontient, but you have no claim to Southeast Asia. First the Netherlands and now this. When are you going to be satisfied with what you have? Yank 22:05, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

After a small slice of this (I'm going to enter an era of pax). :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:07, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I pity the Khmers. They had just ejected the Scandinavians just to have another opportunistic band of greedy bastards to take their place. That's just not fair. Yank 22:37, April 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sounds like another Western Sahara too me (Spain -> Morroco). Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:27, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

If it wasn't them, it'd be me. I vassalized them for a turn before someone signed up as them and booted me out. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 02:41, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

I'd have preferred China to have vassalized them. At least you'd have done it slowly and diplomatically.--Yank 05:21, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

You know what, if none of my allies (coalition partners) turn up, then I'm wiping out this whole war. Imp (Say Hi?!) 06:51, April 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ethiopia stands with Orissa Imp. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:43, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Venice will enter in 1673 with the full navy :D And then I will need to digest everything so no wars for the next 50 years or so. You have my word. Scandinator (talk) 13:32, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I would like to take advantage of my 1.5 upto 1679, cause my nation will then have a succession crisis and then it will stop going to war for a while. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:47, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Rajputana supports Orissa's efforts--Sawdog88

In return, Rajputana will get a small enclave from the Orissans. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:38, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Divisions of Scandinavia map
Alright, I will put it bluntly. I still dont know what territory anyone is actualy getting from former scandinavia. As of now, two nations have claimed to have annexed Neu Denmark and integrated them into their colony: Russia and Germany. Russia wrote in 1673 that Kanada and Neu Denmark have merged, and a Duma for that territory has been formed, and in 1674, Germany wrote about their Annexation of the territory, and the Expansion of Vinalnd via that territory. I would like to avoid that type of thing in the fututre, and I want to  figure out who gets Neu Denmark(the nova scotia and environs colony), and what division we are using, as "northern Sweeden/Norway" amongst other things is a very vague discriptionof territory gained, "Northern Sweeden" could mean different things to different people, I propose that any changes done to the Scandinavian territories in the new upcomming map be consiedered unoffical drafts untill this discussion is terminated and an official map of divisions is established, thoughts?-Lx (leave me a message) 17:24, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

I completely understand your concern. Since all the dispute is going to erupt from Europe, I will give what is certain in Asia. So Mysore recieves the small Lankan Kingdom. I get Bengal and the small island off Mataram. That's it really. So we need to hear what Germany says. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:54, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Venice receives OTL Virginias and Maryland, the Aymaras, Gibraltar and OTL Bari state coastline in Somalia. Scandinator (talk) 13:35, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

China recieves the southern portion of Inca and, due to the place being abandoned, Von Bismarkk's Land. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 15:35, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Arabian Federation receives the southern section of Scandivia's large east africa colony with the north of the colony going to Ethiopia. I have posted this on the map when I made it. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:18, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

From what I gather, Russia and Germany are splitting propper...So if there are any other nations who want in...now's your chance to ammend this map... I labeled my re-orgonizaition nations, I played around with some boundries...here's my first map for Scandinavia propper, I will post an Americas map shortly.

For Greater Finland, it is a federation of 3 states, if that is important...

1.Vähemmän suomi (lesser Finland)

2. The Autonomous Duchy of Eesti

3. Tornionlaakso

So here it is...-Lx (leave me a message) 20:30, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

I uploaded exactly what has been an equal division of pixels in Norway and Sweden and Finland onto the main map. You cannot expect much gains since you only switched sides at the very end of the war. Learn to deal with your mistakes.

20:33, April 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Exactly. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:34, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

About side switching: I did that as not to be OOC and have a better excuse to participate in this formality of a war for a better reason than just : look a chance at a land grab! Regardless What you put is barely more than Finland. Russia annexed neu Denmark...I presume we decided that russia got Finland and half of Sweden, not Finland and a bit, fine, I read quickly and thought I got all of Norway, not half(stupid me). In any case, the map I posted's primary purpose was to get ammendment maps flowing and help with the 1700 labeled map...Lets do this for America: Germany gets Newfoundland and environs, and russia gets Nova Scotia and environs: deal? -Lx

No. Why should even get anything? The Germans, Italians, Indians, French, and Asians and Africans poured their military efforts into this, especially Brandenburg, Venice, and Orissa, and you just waltzed in when everything was pretty much done. You're asking for more than you deserve.

21:25, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

That statement is False, actually. The war started in 1670, and in the algorithm, it says 2 year war. So, it ended in 1672. Italy anh Germany went to war from the beginning. Russia, Orissa, France and the Arabs(I.e everyone else in the coalition) all joined the coalition in 1671. Russia did not just "waltz in at the end", it poured just as much military into this as anyone else. It fraught just as much as France and Asia did, retreating troops from colonies in 73 and scan proper in 72 due to proximity. -Lx


 * No, it was a three year war, as it only became a two year war after China and France joined in the second year, which is illogical, forcing the war into the third year. You did come in at the end, because you were on the other side most of the time. 22:32, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

And actualy, I just had a better look at your map, and...Noooooo you dont even give me all of Finland, wow, I realy didnt think you thought of Russia like that, Russia annexed FInland, so sorry, your map is wrong. Very, very wrong, and very wrong, very, very wrong, and this is the exact problem I brough up: people meaning different things: What I understood : finland+ norway+ half of sweeden, what he understood: not even all of finland because it is about less than half of "sweeden".-Lx (leave me a message) 22:20, April 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Please explain how you managed to "annex" Finland when I managed to invade and conquer it and Northern Scandinavia while you were still on their side. You should be very happy you are getting anything at all, because you shouldn't deserve anything for being Scandinavia's only ally who shiftily joined us. Very un-slick, if I do say so myself.


 * 22:32, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Again a False Statement, I joined your side in 1671, along with everyone else, in 1671, you only had control of southern Norway and Sweeden and denmark, Hardly conquering Norhtern finland while Russia was "still on scandinavia's side". Witch is Flase, I was trying to avoid being OOC. I was promised Finland and Northern Sweeden and Northern Norway(although i thought all Norway at first, stupid me). Northern Sweeden is already on my map as russia, and I will simply subtract southern Norway from the Norway Dependancy.-Lx (leave me a message) 22:46, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please explain why your "half" is larger than Germany's, the nation that started this war and fought hardest (tied down with Venice), and why you should get Stockholm when I led the siege, invasion, raid, and capture of the capital city.
 * 22:48, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * What? what stockholm? I dont get stockholm? where in that map does it say i get stockholm? how did you get the Idea Stockholm was in the Russian holdings? Stockholm is further south mate. my half is not larger than yours, its smaller, way smaller, I dont even get all of Finland on your map thats how much bloody smaller it is!, the only reason it apears it might be larger than the german half of Sweeden on my map is because I screwed around with the borders, and the Northern regions that I am annexing are sparsely inhabited, even if I get mroe territory, you get most of the people(and that is what matters in wars, in the algorthm, population, not total land, if anything larger nations are at a disadvantage if you loose wars, more territory gets taken in pixels). The North of Norway is largely mountains, and the North of Sweeden, while mroe inhabited, only houses a minority of the population. Even if my division of the territory becomes official, germany will still have about 66% of the total population, Norawy and Finland together are equal to Sweeden, and Denmark is approx. equal to Finland, so you have 3 Finlands while I have 2. that is 3/5 of the population witch is 60%(and I am saying that because Norway would have less people now bevause i used modern Numbers, even with my northenr half, considering Noreay had les people, I would still ahve same ratio methinks) I do not care about Stockholm, its yours, take it, fine, but, as I recall, Russia annexed Finland and the norhtern lands that were reffered to as only " Finland and Northern Sweedn/Norway" in 1762, when germany did not post,-Lx (leave me a message) 22:57, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I want the Baltic Coast. Not like you can do much with it anyways. It's frozen most of the time.
 * 23:19, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well that depends on what you define as Finland, actualy, I want to create the Grand Principality of Suur-Suomi(Greater Finland), and that includes the Torne valley(although I assume you mean OTL Finland)...so I would like that(and nya Denmark of course)... In any case that is irrelivant.can you please post an ammendment map to show what you mean please...because the l want the least ammount of  confusion possible when it comes down to maps...that is the reason I even created this talk section...so that there will not be any confusion...I will post a nameless map aswell as my proposition for the Americas for the debating and ammending. This section was created as not to clog up the map corrections, but firstly to reduce confusion at the division of Scandinavia.-Lx (leave me a message) 14:02, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * hey, can i get Scandinavias colony on the Argentina's, the one they gained from the war with naples almost century and a half ago Sine dei gloriem (talk) 15:46, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * hey, can i get Scandinavias colony on the Argentina's, the one they gained from the war with naples almost century and a half ago Sine dei gloriem (talk) 15:46, April 19, 2013 (UTC)




 * I deserve nothing? Realy? As I recall, it was not your efforts, but an out of nowhere *1.5 that won that war. Had not been for coalition forces, you would not have won that war, you think being the self-proclaimed main leader entitles you to everything? So by that do you mean that anyone that is not you can't get any territory? wow. nice. You insult me for not Going OOC and being "you know, Scandinavia is one of Russia's closest allies, but Because all hope is lost, we may aswell try for a land grab and turn on them!" You say two-face, I say plausible, and you have not done a single map respecting my wishes of the divisions of my gains. In that map you just decided to edit russia, even though you are not a mapmaker, and I did not intend to annex all of them at all... why did you make me annex those lands? I did not ask that, you should not have touched Scandinavia untill we decided it here(that map obviously had you getting the baltic coast as you desired so badly in mind, that is why it looks all wierd). Please, if you are displeased, please make a bloody proposal using one of the maps I posted as a base instead of sitting in front of the computer and saying I should not get so and so because you said so and dont like it and  plausibility should be punished. I made the nations the way I want to devide my holdings, now please do the same to yours.-Lx (leave me a message) 21:50, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * PMII_Russian_Scandinavian_Gains.png"you know, Scandinavia is one of Russia's closest allies, but Because all hope is lost, we may aswell try for a land grab and turn on them!"
 * That is exactly what you did. Also I am not the "self-proclaimed" leader, I  AM  the leader. I  STARTED  the war. I  PLANNED  the war.
 * One last thing: I care nothing for the aesthetics, despite my OCD.
 * 22:01, April 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * well, fine, but I have a bit of OCD for map aesthetics sooo... I overlayed your changes onto my map(mostly, I reversed the curve, but I changed it...although...perhaps its too close to my ), primarily because it has now I want to devide my gains, so, with your say-so, I will overlay the map i will post(hopefuly) onto the regular map, and if you say too much(even though you are getting well over 70% of the population, probably closer to 80%) then i will try again, ok? alright, great, now all we have left is Antillia.-Lx (leave me a message) 22:34, April 19, 2013 (UTC)ScanDivNoNames4.png
 * Eh, I guess this is fine. But Neu Denmark is mine. I can give you something somewhere else though.
 * 22:42, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I still want that colony...hmmm...you are already getting Hudson Bay, and I do not want to stay confined to the St lawrence valley...you already get more people than me, and you get most of Scandinavia's North American Colonies, Save Maryland and/or New Denmark...I want it because I dont want to feel choked into the st lawrence valey with kanada by germnay, and I dont want a single nation to control the Cabot Strait(strait between newfoundland and nova scotia)...but hey, if you want a proposal, can you please post a map so I know what you mean...-Lx (leave me a message) 23:24, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll give you part of the Hudson Bay.
 * 23:28, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Every other part of the world I got(excluding Finland), nobody lives in, I would think a nation would try to at least get a colony with people in it...another reason I forgot to mention I wanted it...so I have an excuse to build a duma(legislative assembly) in Antillia, can you please give  me new Denmark, I actualy see no reason why that area of the world is so apealing...except for hydroelectricity but nobody knows about that yet... I want please a map, because "part of hudson bay" is rather vague...great...now I sound like a dick...-Lx (leave me a message) 23:35, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * If I tell you my secret plans, they won't be a secret anymore, now will they?
 * 23:38, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bavaria requests that it purchase a part, or be given a part of the Denmark peninsula as we did contribute to the war from the begining yet recieved nothing for our efforts. We want access to the sea.Andr3w777 (talk) 18:12, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You have part of the Norwegian coast.
 * 18:15, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * alright, lets lay out some ground rules, please post maps of what you want, instead of just spounting out coast this or coast that...please chose one of the four region maps that suit your need the best, and apply your proposal.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:47, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * i don't think i need a map for a little colony in OTL Argentina Near Rio Da Prata of Portugal, its the only real thing i want for now Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:51, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was informed that I (Saxony) would receive a small stip of Norwegian coastline and the Faoe islands. The Norwegian strip can be exceedingly small, I only ask for the city of Bergen (and small surrounding areas). I have already been using these territories in my posts, so I hope there are no objections. Thanks, Callumthered (talk) 09:24, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Where's York?
Where is York exactly on the map? When I started playing I couldn't find an up-to-date labelled map that had York on it. I made my best guess and colored in what I believed York to be (in the purple)



But recent versions of the map, from 1675 or so, have shown York being in a different place, like here:



I was just wondering where the actual York is, and whoever edited the map and put York in the right place, Thank you!

Shawnguerra (talk) 20:56, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

I think you are the second one. There was a mix-up I think. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:32, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

It is the second one, if you just google York you'd see that the smaller one is Lincoln rather than York. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:37, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks guys!

Shawnguerra (talk) 22:10, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Out of Town
I'm going out of town for the weekend, next post should be sometime Sunday or Monday. CourageousLife (talk) 01:24, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

France
Total:53
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: France (L), La Marche (MV), Aragon (MV), Navarra (MV), Castille (MV), Portugal (M), León (MV), Switerland (MV), Lorraine (MV):21/4 = ~5
 * Military Development: 26/3 = ~9
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit Count:1752
 * UTC Time:16:36
 * 1752/108 x pi = 50,963614158234423646171770439867
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Toulouse
Total: 41
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Toulouse (L) = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/26 = 0
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
53/94 - 0,5 x 2 = 0,12765957446808510638297872340426

France has right to 12,7% of Toulousain territory.

Since the war lasted 4 years, France has right to 11,1% of Toulousain territory.

Discussion
La Marche was included due to being a French vassal. i assume they would join this war, due to this.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:33, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

are Lorraine,and Switzerland French vassals and as well how much would it take for me ,france to fully take over Toulouse?.

I guess so.and you would need 82 to win on just one war. i suggest that you declare war again to join up scores after this war is finished.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:07, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

I would appreciate if somebody was to make a pixel count of Toulouse.I am unable to do so at the moment.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:09, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

I can count it but is Toulouse the nation in southern OTL France on the left, centre or right? I checked google maps and I think its the one of the left but the centre nation & the left nation's border is very close to where Toulouse is so I'm not entirely sure which one it is. Anyway the nation on the left which I think is Toulouse is 1,091 pixels large. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:08, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

There are three.Aquitaine, which borders Navarra, and has an outlet to the Atlantic, Toulouse, which borders Aragon, and is east of Aquitaine, and the Papal States, which border Venice, and re at east of Toulouse.So, it is the one on the center.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:59, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Bavaria
Total: 58
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Bavaria (L), Salzburg (MV), Bohemia (M)) = 9/4 = ~2
 * Military Development: 20/3 = ~7
 * Economy: 10/3 = ~3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit Count:1227
 * UTC Time: 18:17
 * 1227/56 x pi = 68,834539034904933992743989844356
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Palatinate
Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 4 = 0
 * Military Development 3/20 = 0
 * Economy: 3/10 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Currently a win, Bavaria does not yet know what it can take.

Koori Union
Total: 46
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Koori Union (L), Orissa (S)) = 6/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 8/0 = 8
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: +7
 * Chance: 3
 * Edit Count: 313
 * UTC Time: 21:00 = 10
 * (313/10)*pi = 98.3318500
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +26
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Pitjantjatjara Tribe
Total: 25
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 4
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results:
The Koori Union achieves a grand victory over the Pitjantjatjara Tribe. ((46/(46+21))*2) - 1 = 0.37313432

The Kooris can claim 37.1% of the opposition tribe. If the war lasts five years, they can claim 33.66% of the opposition tribe, toppling their government.

Discussion
Since this my first algorithim can someone check it over for me. Thanks in advance. Hailstormer (talk) 20:13, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

I just did. You will still topple their government, but it will take 5 years. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:10, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

You forgot the population stat of the other tribe. Scandinator (talk) 12:42, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion Over Koori Union Post
I think there has been some confusion about what i am claiming in my 1678 post. I can agree now that buying the islands from the Shogunate after one turn of contact is implausible and i shall remove that from my post. But in terms of the ports and expansion i disagree. The ports are not grand affairs and are just simple wooden ports which can harbour relatively large ships. With the thousands of workers from Orissa i think that it is plausible for the ports to have been completed in the space of two years. In terms of the expansion, i have not colonised the entire of eastern Australia as some people have intepreted my post, i have only colonised a thin strip of land down the coast. I have also not done this in one year, but over the course of five. The map below details the expansion i have done and i think that it is a plausible expansion. I have also stuck to the 10000km expansion rate told to me by one of the moderators, so i think it is unfair for people to now claim that my expansion is implausible as i am following the rules told to me. Hailstormer (talk) 22:11, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Well the thing is that nation's don't expand just along the coastline like your's has done. It streachs out the line of command and puts your nation at risk due to being difficult to defend. Furthermore you haven't developed a navy in the slightest. Too much too soon. I think Scan summed it up very nicely on your talk page. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:17, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Punjab Confederacy
Total: 55
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Punjab (L), Orissa (M), Bihar (M)): 10/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 8/3 = 3
 * Economy: 6/3 = 2
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 30
 * UTC Time: 14:22 = 8
 * (30/8)*pi = 11.7809724
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Balochistan
Total: 32
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Balochistan (L)): 4/10 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/8 = 0
 * Economy: 3/4 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
Punjabi Victory. ((55/87)*2) - 1 = 0.26436781

Punjab can claim 26.4% of Sindustan. In 5 years they capture 24% of Sindustan.

Discussion
Sardar bhai, I am fixing it to suit the needs of the rules of the game. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:51, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

thx for helping please do tell me what has been changed and what mistakes I had made in the algorithm- Sardar

Well, for NPCs, you take the number 15 and divide it by 3. Then you divide that number by 2 (ans: 2.5) and you round it up (ans 3). Then you give three each to Military Development, Economy and Infrastructure. That was it mainly. BTW, after the war finishes, you will have 25 years to invade them again and topple their government. You will only need to claim a small 10% in your next year. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:02, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

can i include persia in this stage and increase my chances of conquering more land-sardar

Joining
You don't mind if I take over Munster do you? Kunarian TALK 21:58, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

I mean Irish Munster btw. Kunarian TALK 22:28, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Hey Kun! Great to see you around. Well, Ireland is in a tricky situation as so many nations are trying to lay claim over it. If the British Isles is your choice, then Scotland or Wales (the size of England, mind) are available. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 06:54, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Im back! Although is the Dimurats a Sultanate, or a Khandate, or something else? thanks The old baby 2 (talk) 11:01, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the Dimuratis are a plain old kingdom. Yank 16:42, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'm new to this wiki but very interested in joining a map game (preferably this one) - how do I join and is there anyone I can talk to about making sure I know how it works? Also, I have questions about whether tribes in the black areas can be playable, whether it's possible to insert a (histroically accruate) tribe in the black area, and whether I can play two countries independent of one another. Thanks and sorry for being an annoying newbie. Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:03, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Rome and Allies
Total: +90
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +8 (Larger Colonial Empire, Attackers Advantage, And Cpaital is on higher ground)
 * Strength: Rome (L+4), Hungary (M+3), Wallachia (MV+2) Italia (M+3) Greece (MV+2), Aymará (MV+2), Malacca (MV+2), Siam (MV+2), Bulgaria (MV+2), Yugoslavia (MV+2), Dimurats (M+3), Persia (M+3), Armenia (MV+2), Nejd (MV+2), Mesoptamia (MV+2), Crete (M+3), Cyprus (MV+2) = 41/4= +10
 * Military Development: 15/3= +5
 * Economy: 15/3= +5
 * Infrastructure: +15
 * Expansion: +0
 * Motive: +3 (Resources)
 * Chance: +5
 * Edit Count: 5934
 * UTC Time: 19:16
 * 1*9*1*6= 54
 * 5934/54*3.14= 345.0511111
 * Nation Age: +0 (Average Nation)
 * Population: 18,000,000 people, +8 then +20 (Definintly More than 10 times Azerbaijian), so +28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: +0

Azerbaijian
Total: +33
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Chechnya (L+4), so +0
 * Military Development: +0
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +1
 * Expansion: +0
 * Motive: +10 (Soveirngty Threatened)
 * Chance: +1
 * Nation Age: +0 (Average Nation)
 * Population: 800,000, so +6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: +0

Outcome
((90/(33+90))*2)-1= 0.4634146341463415,

(0.4634146341463415)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 0.347560975609756125, or 35% of Chechnyan Territory over a 2 year war, which will allow the Romans to topple the Azerbaijian government. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It

Discussion
I smell current events CrimsonAssassin (talk) 14:00, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

yes...yes you do...Russia will be going to war with Azerbaijian aswell...-Lx (leave me a message) 15:06, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Good or bad for Rome? Because im not doing anything wrong as far as i know, it deosnt chow Azerbaijian as a puppet state or anyones ally. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 18:35, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

also Russia, Rome is taking Azerbaijian, not you, your not getting any of it. We will gladly aid you in takingt he other 3 caucaus states though, as we have no claims to those. Azerbaijian however is Roman, or to be mroe precise it will be in Personal Union under Rome, so a vassal state. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 19:24, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Netherlands
Total: 50
 * Location: 5+5/2 = 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6+1/2 = ~4
 * Strength: Flanders (L),York (L),Munster (MV), Liege (MV), Oldenburg (MV), Rome (M), Azerbaijian (MV), Hungary (M), Wallachia (MV), Kongo (M), Aceh (M) Dimurat (M) Russia (M) = 36/10 = ~4
 * Military Development: 28+14/2/3 = 7
 * Economy: 16/2/3 = ~3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: +0
 * Motive: 3+3/2 = 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 55
 * UTC Time: 21:11
 * 55/2 x pi = 86.39125
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: +0
 * Puppets: -2

Wales
Total: 41
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Wales (L), Lincoln (MV), Cornwall (MV), Ulster (MV) = 10 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/30 = 0
 * Economy: 3 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussion
Results still subject to change.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:33, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

The Netherlands is awarded a 0 on economy because their posts never mention anything about economy unless it's talking about their vassals.And they will also only receive a 5 in Nation age in 1694.You also didn't post in 1678, so you have a 28, not a 30 in military development.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:15, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Updated Quashi (talk) 20:40, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Corrected. the coalition algorthm was done wrong again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 12:16, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Proposal for Industrial Algorithm Modifiers and Industrial Era areas and rates.
I have a proposal to modify the algorithm to put into perspective the colonial wars of the 18th-20th century. An algorythm multiplier would be applied to all wars with the side with a higher stage gaining 10% extra for each stage higher they are. Nations with two stages use the higher when defending and the lower when attacking. Scandinator (talk) 04:59, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Stage 1

 * The Air Furnace is developed
 * Agriculture begins to rapidly shift with fertilizers and rest years for the fields
 * Chemistry develops in leaps and bounds

Stage 2​

 * Steam Power is developed and water wheels are heavily utilized
 * Various chemicals are produced in large amounts
 * Health care and anatomic understanding improve, birth rates still high but death rates on a massive decline
 * Urbanisation begins on a significant scale

Stage 3

 * Paper mills develop with the tech to produce large reels of paper
 * Cloth factories begin using machines and steam power to increase productivity massively to keep up with population boom's clothing demand
 * Railways appear
 * Some revolutionary rumbles appear

Stage 4​

 * Civilian railways appear allowing easier access
 * Stronger cements are produced
 * Steel and Glass are avaliable
 * A few colonies and nations will have rebellions in this period

Stage 5

 * Ironclads and Artillery become widely used in combat
 * Revolutions by poorer citizens in cities become frequent

Stage 6​

 * Tanks and planes appear
 * Total War emerges with populations also targetted
 * Nationalism appears in larger multicultural nations

Stage 7

 * Atomic age begins a decade before the start of this age with certain nations able to make nuclear weapons
 * Wars between atomic powers CEASE, due to the threat and consequences of nuclear war
 * Colonies rebel for independence

Discussion
I'm extremely confused. Also, I think the industrialization chart should be corrected, as Scandinavia has been vanquished.

16:08, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see no need to remove them, as they have already been removed.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:07, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I like this one better than it's predecessor, mainly beccause there are more divisions here, allowing for a more accurate representation of the country's standing. Albeit, there are a few things that could be amended. CourageousLife (talk) 16:22, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Same here. Much better. And what is confusing Scraw? It is pretty simple to understand once the map is up showing industrialisation levels. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:27, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, it's for the map.


 * 17:16, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

It needs some corrections, as some characteristics are too late or too early for their times.Such as: We should move the appearing of railways to stage 4, and their spread to 5, to start with, After all, when we talk about railways, this implies steam locomotives, necessarily.And, steam locomotives in 1770?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:04, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * That isn't too far-fetched. A viable steam engine existed in 1782, it just took a while(about 20 years) before people to realise it could be used for rail transport. A two-cylinder steam engine was invented by a Russian in 1766...it had great potential, and could have perhaps accelerated the development of the steam locomotive by a phew decades(maybe only 10 years to say: put it on a fracking train) but The Empress ditched the designs in favor of a more "Brittish" system(i.e. hydraulicaly cooled that required close water supply...this lagged locomotive construction). So...RUssians could have built locomotives in the 1770s...but the empress wanted to stay close to brittain, and brittish-style tech, so that slowed many things...and because of that, the twocylinder stam engine was scrapped.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:42, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, unlike the last game, the East is on better footing with the West, and thus will breed even more competition. I think this is completely fine if you ask me. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:42, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've done the research in the industrial era. For whomever industrializes first, these technologies do not suddenly appear. It is gradual in within each stage. Scandinator (talk) 11:42, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

I would think that, like in PMII, crimson would be a fraction of the main natino around the nation's "heartland/capital" area, and the rest of the nation would get industry red. And colonies would industry get a colour under their founding nations, etc... However, I am worried about the ammount of colours...in any case, I do believe that orange and yellow(or at the least orange) should get planes at the same time as red and crimson...technology and trade would change to the point that...well...those nations could do thema t the same time...-Lx (leave me a message) 18:43, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

New Mod election
Obviously, with AP's "retiring" from the game, we had one less mod.After pondering for about two weeks any suitable candidates, we have reached three.Only one may be elected.We shall use the same rules as last election.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:25, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Kogasa

 * <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:27, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:39, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Reximus55 (talk) 11:27, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Scandinator (talk) 11:39, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * CrimsonAssassin (talk) 18:48, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Quashi (talk) 21:29, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 01:25, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Callumthered

 * -Kogasa [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|50px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|23px|border]] 2013年4月29日 06:27:17 (JST)

MOD Election result
Well With a clear majority, it seems that Kogasa/Seiga Miyako has won. Congratulations, you are our new mod. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:30, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram
Total: 79
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Mataram (L), Orissa (M), Carnatic (MV), Negara Daha (MV), Khmer (M)): 11/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 22/3 = 8
 * Economy: 8/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -4
 * Motive: 5 (Religious to the military)
 * Chance: 6
 * Edit Count: 6339
 * UTC Time: 21:33 = 18
 * (6340/18)*pi = 1106.364212
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Jambi
Total: 38
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Jambi (L)): 4/11 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/22 = 0
 * Economy: 3/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Matarami Victory. ((79/(79+38))*2) - 1 = 0.350427350

Mataram can claim 35% of Jambi. The war lasts 2 years, allowing Mataram to claim 26.3% of Jambi.

Persia
Total: 47
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 3
 * Strength: Persia (L+4), Dimurat (M+3), Armenia (MV+2), Azerbaijan (MV+2) Mesopotamia (MV+2), Arabian  Sultanate (MV+2) Rome (LW+3), Hungary (M+3), Wallachia (MV+2), Novrogod (M+3), Minsk (MV+2) = 28 = 0
 * Military Development: 16/3 = 5
 * Economy: 14/4= 5
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit Count: 211
 * UTC Time:  11:49
 * 18.413
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Levantine
Total: 50
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: Levantine (L+4) Italia (S+2) Greece (MV+2), Aymará (MV+2), Malacca (MV+2), Siam (MV+2), Bulgaria (MV+2), Yugoslavia (MV+2), Cyprus (S +2), Crete (MV +2), Arabian Federation (M+3), Caliphate  (MV+2), Maldives (MV+2), Comchellak  (MV+2)= 31 = 31/28 = 1
 * Military Development: 4/0 = 0
 * Economy: 4/0 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 3
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
The Levantines kick out the invaders & win the war. ((50/(50+47))*2) - 1 =

The Levantines can lay claim to x% of Persian territory.

Discussion
Your algo was riddled with holes. I fixed them. You do not get to topple its government. Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:58, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed up chance and population. Scandinator (talk) 16:53, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

added Roman now its a coaltion war DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 18:02, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

This algorythm needs to be fixed again.it just isn't made like that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:14, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

All your motives are going to be 3. All your nations are christian.

It is a very absurd move by Persia, considering that the Levanent and Persia are the only two countries in the world which have the special form of christianity. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:32, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

What can I say? He's frankly a greedy numbskull. This twit isn't satisfied with what he has. And the fact that he'll backstab an ally just sickens me. Not to mention Dean's usual chronic stupidity.--Yank 00:11, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Italia is going to support her ALLY the Levant not the Persians who we have no diplomatic relationship with. Scandinator (talk) 04:04, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Can someone do the recent wars calculation for Rome. They are embroiled in a couple and fought several more and its not showing here. Scandinator (talk) 04:09, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus joins the Levantine side as it has stronger allies there.

I've moved my countries but I have no idea if this has stuffed up the algorithm or not. :PAirlinesguy (talk) 10:47, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Algorythm corrected again,. Too many duplicates and unexistant nations on the Persian side (Rome and Azerbaijan appearing twice, and Muscovy, which doesn't exist since the 1600's, appearing.)--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 12:21, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian Federation would also join this war to protect their Levantine allies. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:35, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Also you'd do chance for Fed, not for NPC right? So take Fed's edit count & the time this war started and bingo! <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:40, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

In fact if I join in then I'd be on the winning side no? Hmm, do I become a coalition partner as well as? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:42, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Scan/Italia, if you join the war alongside me then we could both gain a lot of land. You in Anatolia and me in Arabia. What say you? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:55, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Rome dropped out of the war and paid the Levant a large sum of gold for pre-war borders. Rome is out of the war. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 17:47, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

War is over. Persia has made peace with the Levant, following Rome's withdrawl. Reximus55 (talk) 10:29, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Wow this was pointless. Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 10:36, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

China
Total: 64
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: China (L), Formosa (MV), Laos (MV), Vietnam (MV), Tibet (MV): 12/4=3
 * Military Development: 14/3= 6
 * Economy: 14/3= 6
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 2003
 * UTC Time: 22:30
 * (2003/120)*pi= 524.3 8 417
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 29
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Zululand
Total: 43
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Zulu (L)=4/12=0
 * Military Development: 3/14=0
 * Economy: 3/14=0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
Chinese victory. China may take ((64/(64+43))*2)-1= 19.62% of Zulu's government. The war lasts for 5 years, China takes 17.66%.

I call dibs!
Apparently, Scandinavia had a colony in South America. As seen by the arrow, the colony has been left mainly untouched. Now, as I had the least to gain in all of the coaition partners, I call dibs on the colony.

Italia and Germany have already got tons of land from Scandinavia. I get this, ok folks? :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:23, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

France is already claiming that.See some discussions above.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:46, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

I see that, but I was a coalition partner. I only got Bengal. I am pretty sure I would be willing to take on France over the colony. We could have won without him. Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:45, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Still, everybody except for him, if the colony isn't goign to be his, got a share out of that.even Saxony.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 18:07, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Would he really want 5 px if the colony is divided up between him and me? Cause he can have a bit of the small colony. I'm expanding there pretty quickly anyway. Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:14, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

the reason i want its because i've always wanted to have a presence on argentina, i even try to get it when the war against naples started, but scandinavia beat me.now that's the only region i've been claiming for the contribution i've made in the war. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 19:39, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

But you already have colonies in the new world. I have none. I was a coalition partner and I only got one country. That is why I would like the colony. :(  Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:43, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

i know, i know, but the problem is that i joined the war for some land, which i've not get. and i know you want that colony but the only choice for both of us in which get something is dividing the land, in which i would get the north and you the south if you agree to this i think we both would be happy.Sine dei gloriem (talk) 19:53, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Seems the best way to move forward. Check the pic with the arrow to see the division. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:04, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

I am expanding my colony for many turns to the north, so you having a colony there will be totally block by me Quashi (talk) 21:00, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

I am expanding at double your rates. I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:04, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

If you get this colony will be expanding less, because is a new colony =) Quashi (talk) 21:10, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Wel, it has already been previously established, and my rates allow me to expand it quicker. :)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:18, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

India colonizing the Americas when it already has a huge empire seems fairly implausible to me... <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:28, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I do not have an exactly huge empire. I have one colony. :(  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:55, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah but you have like hundreds of vassals and puppets. They're in your empire as your nation controls them. Your colonial empire may be 1 colony but the majority of your territory is vassals and puppets and what not. That is an empire! Your really big one. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:57, May 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lol. I never actually looked at it from that angle. But its stillonly a small colony, and I'm dividing it with France anyway? :L [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:46, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

New Tribes?
I'm new to Althistory and wanted to get into this game, but was wary of getting in the way of the major players before I learned the ropes. It said that new tribes in the black area could be added, so I pencilled in the Selk'nam (the native people of Tierra del Fuego) and listed myself as controlling them. Please confirm that this is allowed, and if not feel free to give me thirty lashes with a wet noodle or something like that. Commandante Lemming (talk) 06:03, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

This is allowed. But being new, it probably isnt the best choice. the reason is that they arent united and that will take a while, and a lot of wars. If you picked a small but already organized nation. In Europe, maybe somewhere in the British isles/former Eire. Maybe A nation in North Africa, like Carthrage. Stay away from Southeast Asia. But f you want to be the Selk'nam, feel free, and i think you will do well. Someone took the Australian Aboriginese and formed the Koori Union with some of theiir similar tribes, and conquered the other tribes. Yay an Edit conflict (talk) 19:28, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I'll stick with the Selk'nam plan for now as I have a plan on how to build it up - that and starting with stone-age hunter-gatherers in the middle of nowhere keeps me out of a lot of major geopolitical action (and major wars) until I find my feet. If I have to switch I'll switch but for now I'll stick with the plan - although I showed the game to a friend who I'm trying to talk into joining - and if he gets in he'll want Carthage :-) Commandante Lemming (talk) 20:50, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Industrialization
Due to meeting all of the twelve estabilished criteria for industrialization, the antion to be the first to industrialize is going to be Venice.Meanwhile, other nations (Orissa and China) are close, which ended up on somebody suggesting of having two simultaneous industrial revolutions, one in Venice and other in Orissa, the latter some years after the first.I'm not sure about this suggestion, so what somebody else thinks of this?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:03, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I think the chart should be updated first. Some of the nations listed are more advanced than the mods give them credit for. Venice and China are both moderators, giving them the ability to edit the chart whenever they earn some points. The rest of us have to sit and wait and beg to get points put up. CourageousLife (talk) 10:16, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, CourageuousLife. In fact, Venice is also a Mod. So, I think there needs to be a massive check before we do anything - and it will need to be soon. Personlly, 2 Industrial Revolutions seems like a good idea to me. Once it gets going in Venice (say 10-15 years), then China and Orissa are both moved up to crimson. Reximus55 (talk) 11:02, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah that current list isn't set in stone, we need to critically evaluate whether it is a fair scoring of nation's ability to industrialize. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 11:18, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

If I may interrupt. Ethiopia has been pushing for each of the criteria, developing a large middle-class, promoting industry, developing general education (Ethiopia's first major goal that was accomplished), expanding industrial potential. There was also my development of the transportation system which spanned some ten years of expansion, and the demand for coal which Ethiopia was producing for a while until I stopped mentioning it. All of my previous post indicated this. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:13, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I have done extensive research on how industrialization started and the general consensus is that Italy and Germany were closest OTL apart from Britain mostly due to class structure and urbanization. The problem there was the individual states where too small and constantly warring. This research also allowed me to pinpoint those 12 points as critical to a nation's ability to industrialize first (Britain OTL would have scored an 11 or a 12). Ethiopia, the Mayans and Persia frankly do not have the urban base nor the colonial reach to begin industrializing first. And while I have tried to update other nation's positions on the chart, other mods and often other players just edit it on their own.

Finally, some nations may be developing schools and a "middle class" but you need a reason for it otherwise it would be metagaming and that would not be allowed (we are very lenient with these and really weak reasons are usually still accepted). Example: Venice's middle class is a result of the heavy trade and banking industries that allow many people to rise to the middle class though the roles of bankers, merchants or even crew on some of the long haul trips to Asia. Scandinator (talk) 15:46, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

As the Mayans, I've accepted the fact that I'm not going to industrialize first. The issue that I'm dealing with is that my potential isn't shown. But, if the Industrial Revolution is going to spread more quickly to China and Orissa because their positions on the chart are higher, then I want all of the points that I can muster. Do you see what I'm trying to say? CourageousLife (talk) 20:59, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Once again, I completely agree with CorageuousLife. If Orissa industrializes, then its neighbor (once removed) will probably also industrialize more quickly. Also, if Persia is in the top 5, odds are that industrialization will go east faster. Reximus55 (talk) 23:58, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

On the matter of the middle-class, I stated that it was do to a chain effect of more Ethiopians learning do to the expanded education system, lead to them moving to cities to find better paying jobs. This led to the demand for more work, in which industrial centers were built with coal as a major resource to employ more people. This in turn led to the development of a larger road network which made trade easier. Expanded wages and abudant resources from the cities resulted in the growth of the middle-class, which in turn led to the wholesale expansion of major cities throughout Ethiopia. Look at the last two archived games. I urbanized the empire a while ago. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:17, May 3, 2013 (UTC).

Okay, I did the run down and here is Ethiopia's position on the matter. Ethiopia should have five point more than it does at the moment for reasons that shall be outlined below. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:55, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Education: I made it an early priority of the empire to expand education during the early-1600s. Ethiopia was in a close relationship with Orissa and had been expanding generation education to all parts of the empire as part of the modernization program, which had been underway for quite a while before and after the Caliphate era.
 * Resource Demand: Ethiopia had plenty of fuel reserves in the form of coal, and building materials such as wood and iron. As education increased, many Ethiopians; moved into the cities (as I state before and in the game), and this led to the increased demand in raw materials to fuel industrial growth in the cities that were spreading across the empire. I even made mention of the construction of industrial centers in the empire between 1640 and 1650.
 * Transport Capacity: From the beginning of the game to the years Ethiopia escaped the Caliphate's grasp, I made it very clear Ethiopia was expanding its road network, and did so for several decades if anyone  wishes to look. This matter shouldn't even be a dispute since it was basically the one and only thing I worked on over and over again even though I didn't have too long after that goal had been accomplished.
 * Mass Produced Resource: Ethiopia has a huge population of sheep, which has been the deciding factor for the large number of Ethiopians wearing shema, the white cloth that nearly all men and women wore for centuries under it was invaded by Italy (and to a large degree still worn by many today).
 * Religious Freedom (Science & Technology): Most of Ethiopia's scientific development has been in cooperation with Orissa, and even without Orissa, Ethiopia has never mixed science with religion though I've not spoken of the matter much. While this is a sketchy matter, Ethiopia's view on it is that religion is to control the people, not the science needed to make life better. There is a clear line there.

Buddy, transport capacity means a huge network of ports and ships to transport goods... Everything else is fine. But it still is not the 12 that Italia has...

You mean like Mombasa, Malindi. Lamu (the historical Swahili port-cities), Massawa, Assab, Manila, Saigon, Dagupan, Luanda and Port-Gentil? I have plenty of ports. In fact, I have territories that were historically known as major ports. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:09, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Back to the original question-

I think it defeats the purpose of the table if we have two or three nations indusrializing at the same time. Better to just do one

CourageousLife (talk) 22:17, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

It makes plenty of since given that Britain had the resources to other nations didn't. Having multiple nations industrialize at the same time at different periods sounds pretty fair to me. And back to the matter of Ethiopia, I do have the ports, so does that not mean I get that point along with the other four as well? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:50, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

I think it is highly unfair to have multiple industrial revolutions happen at once. Hailstormer (talk) 23:09, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

The purpose of the chart was to pick one winner CourageousLife (talk) 23:09, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Then you'll have to choose Venice then since it took over most of the globe and destroyed Persia recently. However, that doesn't do anything to solve the problem with the other nations that have met all of the requirements, albiet lower that Venice. You have China, Orissa, and hopefully Ethiopia (provided you actually put it up there given my statements), and then Brandenburg and Rome followed by everybody else. Surely we get to kept our points right? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:14, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Industrialization spreads geographically, not by points CourageousLife (talk) 23:17, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be just as unfair as the multiple nations industrializing at once? Why would Orissa have to wait for industrialization to reach its borders while Russia far below it gets to industrialize beforehand? Orissa had made industrial successes than Russia, yet because it isn't close to Venice it has to wait for a nation with less development to industrialize first? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:26, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

We (Collie and I) have decided to allow Orissa to industrialize one stage after Venice. It quickens the process in Asia dramatically and Ethiopia is likely to be Yellow or Light Green. Scandinator (talk) 14:52, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Why should Ethiopia industrailize that fast? There are other countries that are closer geographically and have more points. CourageousLife (talk) 19:49, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram
Total: 64
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Mataram (L), Orissa (M), Carnatic (MV), Negara Daha (MV), Khmer (M)): 11/4 = 3
 * Military Development: 22/3 = 8
 * Economy: 8/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 5 (Religious to the military)
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit Count: 6369
 * UTC Time: 17:24 = 56
 * (6369/56)*pi = 357.3000644
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Jambi
Total: 32
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Jambi (L)): 4/11 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/22 = 0
 * Economy: 3/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Result
Matarami Victory. ((64/(64+32))*2) - 1 = 0.33333333

Mataram can claim 33.3% of Jambi. In one year, they can claim 16.67% of Jambi. Combining this with their previous score of 26.3%, the Matarami topple the government of Jambi.

Cyprus and allies
Total: 51
 * Location: 3
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Cyprus (L) +4, Crete (MV) +2, Italia (S) +2, Greece (MV) +2, Aymará (MV) +2, Malacca (MV) +2, Siam (MV) +2, Bulgaria (MV) +2, Yugoslavia (MV) +2, Levantine Kingdom (S) +2, Mayans (S) +2 = 24/4 = 6
 * Military Development: +16/3 = 5
 * Economy: +10 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 425
 * UTC Time: 00:18 = 8
 * 425/8*pi=166.897109
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 7 + 10 = 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Cyrenaica
Total: 39
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Cyrenaica (L) +4 = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: +3 = 0
 * Economy: +3 = 0
 * Infrastructure: +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit Count: 425
 * UTC Time: 00:18 = 8
 * 425/8*pi=166.897109
 * Nation Age:
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
((51/80)*2)-1 = 0.275

(0.275)*(1-1/(2*6)) = 0.25208 = 25.21%

Cyprus can take 25.21%% of Cyrenaican territory. Territory to be gained around Benghazi as much as possible, and then stretched out along the posts. Airlinesguy (talk) 14:16, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
With the extra points you can add roughly another 10% to the total. Another victory like this and they are yours for the taking. Yank 22:34, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

You get roughly 27%. You only need to get a miniscule amount in the next war to completely gobble them up. Not bad for the little guy. Yank 20:12, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Yank! I've been away with limited internet access but I'll fix this all up soon! Airlinesguy (talk) 12:58, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Done. :P Airlinesguy (talk) 15:23, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Norman Madagascar Colony
Hey guys. So I have a Madagascar and Hudson bay colony right now. I've been updating my Madagascar colony at least since the 1660s or 70s, I just haven't put it on the map. If I've been updating the colony for a few decades, shouldn't it be rather large? I've been trying to make it large, however another user has been scaling it down. Here's what I feel the colony should be as of 1690 since its founding in ~1668



Am I encroaching too much on other nations/colonies? If that's true, that's fine, but I still don't feel my colony should be really small, considering it has been around for nearly 25 years.

Cookiedamage (talk) 17:02, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

no way its that big. ive beeen growing mine for nearly or over 100 years, and mines the blue one under yours, get to the back of the line, yours isnt that big. true they should both be bigger, but if anyones is getting bigger its mine! DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 17:04, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Lets see...

25 years x 1000 km (because you have another colony) = 25000 km / 50 px/km = 500 px

Your colony should be less than 500 px, considering the first 5 years of expansion have a stunted rate of expansion. This shows way more than 500 px. Dean, depending on how much you expanded your colony, it could be bigger. CourageousLife (talk) 20:29, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

The map is accurate, don't be greedy Cookie. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:51, May 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * ^ A mod said so Cookie. Drop the argument. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:28, May 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * A mod had never told me anything about the colony before this post, and I'm not really continuing any argument. Oh, and I'm not being greedy.Cookiedamage (talk) 01:52, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * So i ain't no mod then?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:06, May 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * We were talking about the Tasmania colony back then, right? If you actually told me stuff about Madagascar, I'm sorry I forgot to mention you. I do remember you mentioning to me about being able to keep my Madagascar and Hudson Bay colonies on the issue of not being able to create new colonies within 5 years, but I didn't know you mentioned anything on the size of the colonies. Since you said I could keep the colonies, I assumed you meant I could keep the current size of them as well. Cookiedamage (talk) 16:35, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * No.I told you about Madagascar.I was talking that you was expanding with no regards for the colonial expansion limits, like expanding by 2000 sq km when your colony was less than 50 years old, which i think is the reason why your version of the colony is much bigger than in reality.And the thing about Tasmania was just mentioning, as you founded three colonies in less than 50 years too.i just allowed the existence of the Hudson Bay colony because the Tasmanian colony couldn't exist, so for all purposes, you had one colony, not two.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:06, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Siberia
It just pisses me off that Lx gets to bite off huge chunks of Siberia when I was forced to expand at a snail pace.

Yank 02:39, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

You were expanding at a snail's pace because of the technology and trade demand at the time. You have not expanded northward for at least 30 turns, if you did now, it would be just as fast. Russia expanded rapidly as reached the Bering Strait in the midway in the 17th century. They haven't expanded as fast this time round. Scandinator (talk) 09:20, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Now that I take a proper look, it does seems to be a little too fast... Scandinator (talk) 16:07, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Rome, Dimurats, Arabian Federation, Arabian Caliphate & the Netherlands
Total: 89
 * Location: (2+3+4+5+4)/5 = 3.6 ~ +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +8 (Attacker, High Ground, Larger Colonial Empire)
 * Strength: Rome (L+4), Hungary (M+3), Wallachia (MV+2) Italia (M+3) Greece (MV+2), Aymará (MV+2), Malacca (MV+2), Siam (MV+2), Bulgaria (MV+2), Yugoslavia (MV+2), Dimurats (L+4), Azerbejian (MV+2), Crete (M+3), Cyprus (MV+2), Novrogod (M+3), Minsk (MV+2),  Suur-Suomi  (MV+2) , Saami  (MV+2)  , Astrakhan State  (MV+2)  , Riga Tartar  (MV+2), Arabian Federation (L+4), Arab Caliphate (LV+3), Maldives (MV+2), Comchellak (MV+2), Netherlands (L+4), Mantgyastau (MV+2): 65/10= 6.5 ~ +7
 * Military Development: (18+14+12+14+18)/8= 9.5 ~ +10
 * Economy: (12+16+12+14+12)/2= +33
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -3
 * Motive: (7+3+3+3)/4 = +4
 * Chance: +5
 * UTC Time: 1*4*2*9= 72=y
 * Edit count= 6,203=x
 * 6203/72*pi=270.6569337530206591
 * Nation Age: (5+5+5+0+0)/5 = +3
 * Population: (10+2) +12
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -4

Persia
Total: 43
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Persia (L+4), Armenia (MV+2), Mesopotamia (MV+2), Arabia (MV+2) = +10/0= +0
 * Military Development: 8/0=0
 * Economy: 2/0=0
 * Infrastructure: +2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +6
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Result
Looking like a coalition Victory

((89/(43+89))*2)-1 = 0.34848484848 so at a max the Coalition can take 34.84% meaning the Persian government can be overthrown.

(34.84)*(1-1/(2*12)) = 33.3883333333

The war lasts 12 years before the coalition wins enough to overthrow the Persian government.

Discussion
You may want my Arabian Federation to join the war fully as a coaltion partner so that we can topple his government. I want his Arabia vassal and his Mesopatamia vassal. Maybe expand my Persian Sheikdoms a little bit too. That is all. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 01:12, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay I've added the Arabian Federation as a full coalition partner of Rome to this war. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 01:51, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

I do not get how you can even claim a religious pretext, Rome. Our majority religion is Nestorian Christianity, and we are actively promoting and almost forcing conversion. We have been actively using missionaries, and we are in the middle of a cultural revolution as we speak with an end aim of Islam being reduced to 15% of our national population. Reximus55 (talk) 08:46, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

well the arab federation has a religious context, so I'd guess we'd do the average of the two scores. (3+7)/2= +5 <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:10, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

I've also just gone through the posts of Persia and Rome and fixed the military, economy, infrastructure and recent war scores. Many mistakes where there. Also remember we round up or down scores. We don't do decimals. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:41, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

added the dimurats

DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 19:46, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Dean why have you added two numbers to the location, military development, economic development, motive and population scores of the coalition? You should have just added 1, you know, just for the Dimurats joining. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:12, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ah I see its because the Dutch are a leader nation now as well. Okay then nvm. I have fixed one or two things that you did wrong with the algorithm though. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:31, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

With those corrections, seems the coalition needs to raise 5 points to topple the Persian government... <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:47, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm I could add my Arabian Caliphate vassal as a full nation in this war to make up those last 5 points...

Yeah I'll do that now. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:52, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ah yeah that seems to do the trick. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:01, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ive talked with Rex, hes going to collapse his natin, he said rather be destroyed than lose land, and he says hell take another nation, lets try and find him a strong one. Also Rome proposes these borders, and i think there fair:



Do you agree Von, Old Baby, Quashi? DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 16:09, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I'm fine with that, though I will changing the internal borders of Mesopatamia and Arabia to annex them into the Arabian Federation, Caliphate, a new Kuwait vassal and a new Sultanate of Bagdad. However I do say that no.8 isn't really where Kurdistan is, Kurdistan is more like 3, 4, 6 & 7.

I wouldn't mind taking half of your number 8 state Dean in return for some land from my Arabian Persia territories so you have sea access. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:39, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

I've edited ur map to show you what I mean. Also I notice you've split up Kuwait between me & the Dutch. I'm okay with this, but in the future I could do with a border agreement as my Kuwaiti vassal will probably try to get their land back in the future. What you guys think? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:39, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Note I'll be calling my vassal of Mesopotamia the Sultanate of Baghdad. I should have changed the names on my map but I forgot :P <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:43, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Looks fair to me, i rename 8 Kurabia, as there's Kurds and Arabians, and another Arabia will be confusing. But your switching the borders is good with me if its in your lands, and I'm proclaiming the Second Roman Empire in 1700 :) none of you will be attacked i just like the name Roman Empire DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 17:52, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Congrats. I have issued an unconditional surrender. Enjoy the Middle East! I understand the nature of this game, so I hope you all don't have any hard feelings, like I don't. Reximus55 (talk) 18:49, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Shit...I was about to declare war on Persia...but the surrender happened, is Russia still needed? I just got your message dean-Lx (leave me a message) 20:34, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

The Russia isn't needed. It seems the war is over with victory over / surrender of Persia. I'll add the final part of the algorithm to determine how long the war will last. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:48, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ah well according to the Algorithm the coalition needs 12 years of war to get a high enough score to overthrow the Persians. Though since Persia surrendered in-game in 1695, I suppose that should be the end of the war. Hmm, I'm unsure on what to do here. Suppose it should be all finished in 1696 but some resistance will remain. So I'll throw a few mod event revolts our way in the early 1700s to account for the Persian's surrendering while they still had fight left in them.

Otherwise yeah, this war is over. Netherlands, Rome, Dimurats, Arabian Federation and the Arabian Caliphate  will see some negative mod events to reflect this war's quicker than expected ending. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:01, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Rome is now a prtty strong power, yay im winning and im being plausible for one :) no more wars for rome or its vassals for the next 15+ years. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 23:07, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

One thing though, they can't all be your vassals as the rules state you can't have vassals which in total are larger than your own nation. That is against the rules so you'll have to have some of them as actual parts of your nation. I'd say Azeria and Kurabia should be annexed directly into the Roman empire. Then have the Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia, Turkey and Persia as your vassals. Be in personal union with Iraq and Tehran as a puppet state. Or something along those lines. They just can't all be personal unions or vassals. Some need to be puppets or annexed into you. I'd say definitely annex Azeria and Kurabia as they are too small to be independent sustainably <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:14, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

ya...I am a bit angry about the war ending before russia could join and take the southern coast of the caspian(coast of the tehran kingdom)...oh well...in any case...Russia would like free use of all caspian ports for its aid in the war...please?-Lx (leave me a message) 23:56, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Wow
This game is an unparalled success. I'm sorry I couldn't see it all the way through, I just had a busy spot and got tired of managing such a massive game, and then I fell out of practice. I'm glad its successful. LurkerLordB (Talk) 03:19, May 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * LLB!!! Hey man! Where have you been? :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:37, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

I'm glad your happy with the game. Nice to see you back here. Been quite a while. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 07:14, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Expansion Question
What are the limits on how fast a tribal nation like mine can expand? I'd like to take the biggest bites I can without getting lined out. Thanks. Commandante Lemming (talk) 01:32, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well it depends on where you are expanding and the infrastructure you've got. Which nation are you? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:13, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'm the Selk'nam on Tierra del Fuego - so I'm new and I'm crawling out of the Stone Age (quickly, but crawling). Commandante Lemming (talk) 02:17, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ah then it'd be quite slow until you learned about technology and stuff. You could have control of all of  Tierra del Fuego by 1705 I rate if you don't already control it all. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 02:21, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - those were about the size bites I was thinking (although I'm a little more interested in developing right now). Commandante Lemming (talk) 02:31, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah getting the island shouldn't be too hard, its developing it, a navy and streching those lines of command which prove difficult for small nations. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!)

Actually I can't even have the whole island because there's a Japanese colony on the other side (which I like). Then again I don't really need the whole island long term. I'm not aiming to be the next Koori Union, that's already been done. I think you'll like what I have up my sleeve if I get my way long term ;-) Commandante Lemming (talk) 02:42, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

2nd Roman Empire and the Pope
Hey, can the Pope be moved from wherever he is and come to reside in Rome, he'll have authority of the Kingdom of Rome, Georgia, and Azerbejians religious activities and actions and over time as Christianity becomes dominant in the other staates in the Roman League, he will there as well. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 15:02, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Also, Rome is going to be reorganized into the Second Roman Empire in 1700ish, so im just saying Rome will not annex any of its lands except Azerbejian which currently has the Roman heir on the throne, and he will declare that his accension to the throne fo both Kingdoms hearby forms the Second Roman Empire. Rome wont attack anyone, its just a name change basically. DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 15:02, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Rome is Orthodox.that would be enough reason to why he wouldn't accept.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 16:01, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

oh. isnt there an Orthodox Pope? DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 16:14, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

No.the closest thing to a pope in Orthodoxy is the .--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:56, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Rome
Total: +60
 * Location: +3
 * Tactical Advantage: +8
 * Strength: Rome (L+4), Azerbejian (MV+2), Georgia (MV+2), Quonynlu (MV+2), Turkey (MV+2), Persia (MV+2), Armenia (MV+2), Dimurats (M+3), Dim. Persia (MV+2), Mantgyana (MV+2)= +23/4= 5.75 ~ +6
 * Military Development: +16/3 = +5
 * Economy: +14/3 = +5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -3
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +4
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7, +10, so +17
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Granada
Total: +37
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage:0
 * Strength: Granada (L+4)=0
 * Military Development: 3
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: +0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +6
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: +0

Result
((96/(32+96))*2)-1 = 0.5, so Rome can take up to 50%

(.5)*(1-1/(2*2))= 0.375, so after 2 years Rome topples the granadan government.

Discussion
I had to correct it again;--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:48, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

This war can't happen. The Granadans went to the Portuguese for protection. You're attacking Portugal, essentially. Yank 18:49, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Dean declared this war before that happened, and he himself also asked for this war to be retconned.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 18:38, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

France
Total: 62
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: France (L), Tyrol (M), Switzerland (MV), Occitania/Uzès (MV), La Marche (MV), Aquitaine (M), Aragon (MV), Navarra (MV), Castille (MV), León (MV), Portugal (M) = 27/ 4 = 7
 * Military Development: 28/3 = ~9
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 1764
 * UTC Time: 16:56
 * 1764/180 x pi = 30,787608005179973736933905156139
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Puppets: -1

Toulouse
Total: 45
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Toulouse = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 3 = 0
 * Economy: 3
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:

Result
62/107 - 0,5 x 2 = 0.158878504

Discussion
how much war would last to fully take over Toulouse. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:32, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

You have to declare a third war until 1706 in order to do that.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:38, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia
Total: 68
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: +8
 * Strength: (Ethiopia (L), Adal (MV), Warsangali (MV), Yemen (MV), Maynila (MV), Khmer Koch (MV), United Maharajya (M), Assam (MV), Nepal (MV), Kuch (MV)) 23/4 = 6
 * Military Development: 16/3 = +5
 * Economy: 14/3 = +5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance: +3
 * 2256/13:48*pi = 73.931
 * 73.931
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +8, +10 = +18
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Sudan
Total: 33
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Sudan (L) = 4/x = 0
 * Military Development: 3/16 = 0
 * Economy: 3/14 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +1
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Strategic Ethiopian victory. Ethiopia can claim ((68/(68+33))*2)-1 = 0.34653465% of Sudan's territory.

Considering the war lasts 2 years, Ethiopia can claim 26.25% of Sudan.

Discussion
Changed it. You cannot leave out your main ally mate. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:08, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the assist. :)  Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:34, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

No problem. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:35, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Afterwind/At War
Just a quick question. Anyone here play afterwind? Scandinator (talk) 09:27, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Never heard of it. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:26, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Here is a link. Its a good multiplayer TBS game. Scandinator (talk) 16:31, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Does anybody play War Thunder? :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:18, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

I play afterwind now, it looks great DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 17:44, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Looks pretty nice. Just re-installed Civ3 though, but I'll give this game a try sometime this week. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:26, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Size of Manchuria's colonies?
I want to know how large Manchuria's colonies are. I've lost track a long time ago. Yank 03:21, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would suggest going straight to Von. Also, Von could you please update all the sizes on the territories page please mate, thanks. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 14:09, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Manchuria itself is 35,168 pixels, Sakhalin is 1,968, your Mexican colony is 2,349 pixels, vancouver colony is 2,408 pixels and Alsaka colony is 1,863 pixels. Note I know these aren't the names of your colonies, I'm just going off where they are in relation to OTL.

Also I've got exams until the end of May so no can do Imp. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:22, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh man. Oh well, np. :L [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:24, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * If someone could clean the page up so that nations which still exist are on it (E.g. remove Persia and Ottomans off page) and just leave it so only the pixel sizes need to be put in then that'd be great and I'll be able to update it much quicker when I have the time to do so. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:28, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Unfair Expansion
Now I see Russia expanding so bloody quickly. Then I see nations like China, Manchuria and Ethiopia all having to expand at a snail's pace if they are allowed. Why so? Just because Russia did it OTL? This is althistory after all.

Now China has expressed no real desire to expand into savage land. However, Manchuria and Ethiopia have. Manchuria has been established for a very long time and has the capability to expand as they are backed by China and have the will to do so, while Ethiopia is an established nation and only 1 point behind the Russian on the industrialisation chart. The nation has been around for 2.5 centuries already and also has the will (almost nessecity due to water) to expand faster. It also has me (Orissa) backing it. I feel Collie should address the issue and fix it.

Thank you. Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:11, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

I don't Russia should be able to expand so fast, especially considering they've got these large colonies and other lands which they didn't have in OTL. They can't just magic up a seemingly unending population boom. But they will do it faster than Ethiopia because no one really lives in Siberia meaning no real resistance. I mean controlling Siberia isn't the same as controlling Africa because you can actually do stuff with Africa. Controlling Siberia is more like just laying claim to the land rather than actually controlling it with people living their, tax revenue, farms and what not. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:26, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Now I'm hemmed in by Russia because Lx decided to greedily gobble up Siberia in such a way that looks like it was intentionally done to hem me in and abort any plans I had to expand to the Bering strait to ease colonization. It pisses me off so much that I'm almost wishing he would go AWOL for five days so that I can cut Russia down to size with a mod event. We might want to do that anyway to curtail his ridiculous expansion. Yank 16:33, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, he has the chance to expand into America. In OTL that didn't happen and they had to expand eastward. That's how they got to Alaska. So maybe 20-30k km expansion for Ethiopia, and faster expansion for Manchuria? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:38, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * if you look at marnchurian post for the past forever(untill 1693, which was their last post) they did not do a single bit of expansion into sibiria at all...-Lx (leave me a message) 16:52, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

May I first point out that manchuria, for at least the past 3 archives(thats 90 in-game years) perhaps longer, only copy pasted the same thing: Mancuria expands its colonies by x sq km, with one or two exceptions when they were giving korea its freedom, annexing an unamed vassal, or when establishing a new colony, only expanding into their north in 1693(witch was an addon to the manchu "expand colonies" post and their last post I may add), when Russia was already onn the verge of reaching the pacific ocean, while I have spent virtualy every turn during this time to expand into sibiria, at the expense of an algorithm point, delaying my wars, so for the past half century Russia is the only nation expanding into sibiria. and I agree with Von, Sibiria is mostly uninhabited, with the exception of the first cossack pioneers' decendants living in Omsk and Tomsk, and other villages along the way, Traders looking for oportunities in the Orient trading with China and colonists(very small ammount) living in Irkutsk, and military families living on the pacific coast. The governement also encourages settlement in "colonisation of Sibiria" programmes only so that nobody else can lay claim to those lands(a bit like Canada and settling the west in OTL), and Sibiria will soon become what it was in OTL, a place to send Convicts, a Russian Penal colony. -Lx (leave me a message) 16:52, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Actualy, untill about 1675, Russia too, was expanding at a snail's pace, I was writing " russia expands into sibiria", and nothign changed on the map, that is when i brought up the issue on Collie's talk page, and we agreed to a expansion plan to compensate for the time nothing happened to my territory, despite me giving up an algorithm point, and for future expansion reference for the map(he can't read my mind after all). If you have problems with expansion, I suggest you do the same thing.-Lx (leave me a message) 17:10, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Since any unfair expansion has been or will be dealt with by Collie, I'm trusting the next map and will present a labelling one and industrialization one based off that map. Scandinator (talk) 10:34, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

United Maharajya
Total: 98
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Maharajya (L), Assam (MV), Nepal (MV), Kuch (MV), Khmers (M), Sindustan (M)): 16/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 16/1 = 16
 * Economy: 14/1 = 14
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 7
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 6458
 * UTC Time: 13:25 = 30
 * (6458/30)*pi = 676.28017
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 29
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Rajputana
Total: 28
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Rajputana (L)): 4/16 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/16 = 0
 * Economy: 1/14 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:

Result
Maharajya Victory. ((98/(98+28))*2) - 1 = 0.555555*1.5 = 0.83333333

The Maharajya can claim 83% of Rajputana. If the war lasts two years, the Maharajya can claim 41.5%, toppling Rajputana.

Discussion
Now I feel a bit bad for Saw. So I plan to take a bit of territory, and turn this nation in personal union with Orissa/United Maharajya. Therefore, if Saw returns, he can play without any problems. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:28, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

ok that doesnt even seem possible DS|Fear the Mutated Dean Sims Bomb, Fear It 22:59, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Industry stuffs
Industrializaiton...that's a thing...regardless of the war we are having right now...bloody idiocy if you ask me OOC, in Character however, Russia has a schizophrenic Tsar and a dept to Rome. IN any case, I would like to know when the Industry map is comming out...and when the industr table will be made...I know industry is set to be soon, but I find it unfair that the top 3 nations are all mods, who can put up points  whenever they cose, and the rest of us have to wait...I'm not accusing anyone of anything other than not realy paying attention to anything but their own nation(oh god that came out wrong)...what is better I guess is not paying enough attention to other peoples natinos...ya...that's better...please update industry table before industry map please...so that all doubts as to the validity and unbiasedness of the table and map be put to rest.-Lx (leave me a message) 21:01, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the chart does reflect modship status. The mods and their allies in-game are all represented higher up on the chart. CourageousLife (talk) 21:11, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Em no. People who talk about what happens in their nations and work on it are represented higher up. And its all locked now, it does not really matter. And for a fact, the Mayans will probably be Orange or Yellow. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:21, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

But it is true the people running this thing have an unfair advantage but that is to be expected as it is in all walks of life. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 21:25, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Its not like we don't have our own lives outside of PMII. I have a full time job with uni so I can just post points up continuously. I tried to update as many of the other nations as I could but I obviously missed things in their posts. The map will be done in a couple days along with the labelled map. Scandinator (talk) 03:40, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Koori Union/Rome Coaltition
Total:
 * Location: (3+1)/2 = 2
 * Tactical Advantage: +3
 * Strength: (Koori (L), Maori (MV), Normandy (L), Maya (L), Apache (MV), Miskito (MV), Rome (L), Azerbejian (MV) Georgia (MV), Turkey (MV) Perisa (MV), Tehran (MV), Armenia (MV), Quoyunlu (MV), Russia (L),Saami Autonomous Oblast (MV), Grand Principality of Suur-Suomi (MV), Minsk (MV), Astrakhan State (MV), Riga (MV), Tartar State (MV), Hunagry (L), Duchy of Wallachia (MV), Kuban (MV), York (M), Somali Sultanate (S), Aquitaine (M), Carthage (M), Cyrencia (MV)): /x
 * Military Development: +15
 * Economy: +15
 * Infrastructure: N/A (attackers get no infrastructure score)
 * Expansion: -15, -1, -14 (last 15 years)
 * Motive: +3
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7+10= +17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Population: 7+10= +17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4

United Maharajya Coalition
Total:
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 5
 * Strength: (Maharajya (L), Rajputana (M), Assam (MV), Kuch (MV), Nepal (MV), Mataram (M), Brunei (M), Khmer (M), Cebu (M), Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Luxembourg (M), Italia (L), Yugoslavia (MV), Greece (MV), Bulgaria (MV), Nya Gyptios (MV), Aymaras (MV), Siam (MV), Malacca (MV), Albania (M), Montenegro (M), Levantine Kingdom (M), China (L), Formosa (MV), Tibet (MV), Vietnam (MV), Laos (MV), Shan States (MV), Ethiopia (L), Adal (MV), Warsangali (MV), Yemen (MV), Maynila (MV), Khmer Koch (MV), : /x
 * Military Development: +14
 * Economy: +14
 * Infrastructure: +2
 * Expansion: -4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 29
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Population: 29
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

More Discussion
I advise you people not to waste time changing development scores and stuff back and forth as this war inevitability expands. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 22:03, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

No matter how this war ends, I'm just going to call it the Fail War.

22:50, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

yes! the "fail war" it is!-Lx (leave me a message) 23:32, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

This needs to be a COALITION ALGORITHM. Hailstormer (talk) 01:14, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

This is a coalition algorythm.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:03, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Now, there are too much leaders.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:03, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

You can't time it so that you get nine on the chance and we get zero. Collie will do the chance. Hailstormer (talk) 11:48, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Thats what the numbers said when I did them. The post times are set but the edit count may change if you post more... Scandinator (talk) 12:00, May 14, 2013 (UTC)