Alternative History talk:TSPTF

Archives: /Archive/ • /Archive 2/ • /Archive 3/ • /Wall of Shame/

This has to stop
There an issue I feel I have to bring to your attention which I think is a big problem on this wiki. The problem in question is bullying.

A number of people on this wiki are subject of insults, curses and bullying. I admit, I occasionally throw in one or two, but it's unacceptable. One of the main victims involved is a certain Octivian Marius. This started with simple jabs at his poor grammar, but soon led to an entire script and story, "Revolution: The Movie", in which a rebellious renegade by the name of "Mocktavian Sorryass" (really? It's not very subtle...) attempts to take down the mighty power of the TSPTF with his trusty gang of "rebles". I'm sure you're all familiar with the story. But this all stemmed from a harmless blog post in which he unfortunately spelled a couple of words incorrectly. After the creation of this character he was mocked relentlessly, and no one took him seriously any more. He now frequently gets greeted on chat as 'Octard', despite his repeated requests not to be called that. You might all think it was in good nature, but I know what it's like, it starts of as a few funny jokes but it builds up and up and you can't take it. I know I can't tell what's going on inside his head but I can guess. I mean, what did the guy ever do to you, other than his poor grammar and spelling, ridiculous ideas, terrifyingly ASB map game nations... nevermind.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that this is not acceptable. We can't have this on a supposedly respectable establishment. This has to stop. I know I shouldn't really have a say in it, and that's why I came to you guys, the only people with the power to do something. I hope you heed my words and think of a solution.

Yours sincerely, - FP(problem?) 15:47, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I think you are painting Oct as too much of a victim here. He has been targeted, but has also targeted others. Those of us that go on chat, including Oct, have to stop this. I include myself in this. I'm not claiming to be blameless, just that we must stop insulting each other, and bullying members of this wiki. Local Mafia Boss (Talk) (Blog)

Ok, maybe I did add in a bit of drama, and yeah I agree, we all just bicker a lot and occasionally it goes too far. (Of what I've seen) Chat mods don't do a thing, they're busy kicking people for squirrels. They need to get their priorities straight. - FP(problem?) 17:49, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Agreed.

I agree with the squirrel part.



20:56, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Sir_Mark_Granger_(Washington_Shot_at_Murdering_Town!)

Someone block home please ❂ FOR THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA ❂ 14:48, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Really Ratc!?!


At this point, I really do not know what we should do. Here Ratc is confessing to another sockpuppet account. All of the people on chat at the time can attest to his presence, and TOB deserves the credit for making Ratc confess. 20:46, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

After observing parts of the convo which I was not really involved in, I can tell you that he meets a large number of features Ratc has previously shown - obsession for future history, video games, Deus Ex, etc. 20:48, May 21, 2014 (UTC)



More... ~Rex
 * Another traite is heavy profanity.Whipsnade (talk) 16:55, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Banned from chat for eternity. Bfoxius (talk)

Guys please. Let me explain!!!TerraFutura01 (talk) 20:54, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

You were banned and you must accept it. I sorry Ratc. It's for the wikis good. ❂ FOR THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA ❂ 21:02, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Rat is like a ghost. I don't think we can block him IP for forever, but we could do our best to get him away. ❂ FOR THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA ❂ 20:58, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

You were banned and you must accept it. I sorry Ratc. It's for the wikis good. ❂ FOR THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA ❂ 21:02, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Guys, please. I have been waiting a fucking goddamn month. Ok? Now can you please just stop this bullshit already. I already have problems with my parents and I dont want anymore with you guys. And remember I mentioned I needed a new PC? Well, its true. Also, I am simply feeling,bullied and unwelcome wherever I go here. And besides, I am not the same rat you guys know and love to hate ok. I just in other words, dont want to wait anymore.TerraFutura01 (talk) 21:14, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

The great Scraw says this is sockpuppetry. If you had attempted to reveal yourself beforehand, I think it might have been allowed. But this is hiding/lying/cheating/whatever you want to call it.

22:00, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm kinda surprised he hasn't attacked BFE:W yet.

Also, it's sockpuppetry regardless. Rat, three more and it's a felony, and we get to contact SWAT.

22:20, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm telling Wikia about the new socks.Whipsnade (talk) 14:43, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Could care less what "problems" - not that I think they are real for a second - you have. And a month into something that is forever? Pssh.

Scraw, even if he had revealed himself, would be the same block. Sockpuppeting is permanent banishment.

Lordganon (talk) 16:10, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Ratc has returned once again, under the name "Ur-Quan01". Mscoree (talk) 20:59, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

He was not being silly or profane, so was it necessary to ban him. He may have changed and got help with is asperger's. give him a chance to prove him self.Whipsnade (talk) 14:36, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Um whip, that isn't a good excuse. I have Asperger's part of the Autism Spectrum and I haven't done anything that would warrant a ban. No offense but that sounds like a cop out. I still don't have help with mine and I am functioning just fine, I may get irrationally angry at time,but otherwise just fine. I'm sorry whip but I disagree and say Ratc should still be banned.ALLONS-Y!!,Basically, RUN!! 16:54, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

I understand. I am new to all the Autisum/Autstic/Asperge's stuff. I had childhood ADHD, but it is mostly gon now. Thank you for your advice on Autisum/Autstic/Asperge's stuff. It is noted and will be concidered.Whipsnade (talk) 16:55, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I told Wikia and they globally blocked the Ratc socks Global conquer and Terminal warrior, along with that Q-uarn guy. They did not block that Kansas IP 172.56.4.150 or that S. Carolina IP 172.56.4.72. I think they think the IPs are not Ratc.Whipsnade (talk) 16:55, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

TSPTF talk page
On a separate note, archived TSPTF talk page after 100+ subsections made it hard to get to the page's bottom. 23:26, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Are you foreign to the "end" key on your keyboard? Or perhaps the other keys and shortcuts that take you directly to the top/bottom of a page?

23:29, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Scraw, be nice. I don't have an "end" key on my keyboard. I just go to the contents.

But isn't there some bug with Wikia where if you don't archive the page after a bunch of subsections the whole thing disappears? We had that problem with PM2, not long before the GCC...

23:30, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

As I stated, Guns, I archived the TSPTF talk page. 02:09, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Not even remotely your place to do that, Rex.

"End" is normally a shift or "fn" key and then pressing a number from the numberpad.

Lordganon (talk) 16:11, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal
124.124.4.218, as evidenced by: this edit log. I have undone the damage, but would like to let the admin know. 05:52, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Blocked. Lordganon (talk) 16:12, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Juuh Okei
There is another vandal, 80.220.169.157. He's replacing content of pages with "juuh okei". Mscoree (talk) 19:22, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

He deleted your user page Mscoree Sky Green 24 19:24, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

I have undone all his acts of vandalism, but he continues to redo it. Mscoree (talk) 19:25, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Possibly another vandal/troll: 85.76.146.228. Appears to be making nonsensical pages. Mscoree (talk) 19:39, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Possibly the same person, both IPs are in Finland. Sky Green 24 19:46, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

So just to fill everyone in. These two IPs vandalized for some time, before the database went down (not sure if related) and remained down for about ten hours. Glad it's back up now, and it looks like staff has helped a bit. Mscoree (talk) 13:31, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, the one seems to have been more than just here - wikia actually blocked all edits to the wiki, among others, for a while. Their bots later removed the spam pages.

As for the other one, the location is probably meaningless - seems to just be an angry person.

Lordganon (talk) 15:02, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

Ratc, again
GlobalConqueror is another Ratc sockpuppet, I checked his IP it is in Puerto Rico.

Sky Green 24 19:31, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Guys, hello. It's me. Yes, yes I know, it was me the entire time but I really have improved. I don't know what else you guys want from me. LG, honestly I don't know what else to say other than the fact that I ask you this one last thing:Will you and the rest of the TSPTF ever forgive me?GlobalConqueror (talk) 19:42, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Ratc, nope, you are banned for a millenium. Quit making sockpuppets. Bfoxius (talk)

Once again Ratc has returned, under the name Terminator Warrior this time.

Mscoree (talk) 15:48, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

I propose we make an "Implied Consent" rule. If a new user is acting really suspicious, then admins have the right to ask them to preform a manual IP check. Refusing will be like refusing a breathalyzer test and shall result in further investigation. Tr0llis (talk) 16:00, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Guys please, I am telling you:STOP BLOCKING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please?!TerminatorWarrior (talk) 15:58, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

No. CrimsonAssassin-See you, space cowboys 16:49, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

What part of permanent do you not understand? Lordganon (talk) 15:00, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

I told Wikia and they globally blocked them and that Q-uarn guy.Whipsnade (talk) 15:50, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I told Wikia and they globally blocked the Ratc socks Global conquer and Terminal warrior, along with that Q-uarn guy. They did not block that Kansas IP 172.56.4.150 or that S. Carolina IP 172.56.4.72. I think they think the IPs are not Ratc.Whipsnade (talk) 16:57, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Expected of them. Any Ratc IP would be located in Puerto Rico Sky Green 24 17:08, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Spartian300 Sockpuppeting
I had a map game called Look Out, Sir! Revised, which is now defunct. But, besides that, a man signed up to play the USA, by the name of 'Eastest566'. He posted a couple of turns and disappeared, removing his name. A day or two after that Spartian posted this on the talk page: Link. I thought I would just bring this to your attention. Thanks. Blocky858 (talk) 16:04, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Taken care of CrimsonAssassin-See you, space cowboys 16:50, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Whoa whoa wait. Wasn't this already brought the TSPTF like a month ago and they determined he wasn't a sockpuppet? Tr0llis (talk) 16:52, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Crim this was already reported to the TSPTF (see Archive Three), at which point it was determined that when Spartian made that confession he didn't even know what sockpuppeting meant. You should probably look into the matter before  banning him. Mscoree (talk) 16:55, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

And this is why doing this from a mobile device is a bad idea. CrimsonAssassin-See you, space cowboys 17:04, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Okay fair enough. All I'm saying is it warrants further investigation first, since he was tried for this crime previously and found innocent. Mscoree (talk) 17:07, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

Crim, you're still here?

04:48, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

It's hard to let go (inb4 frozen reference) CrimsonAssassin-See you, space cowboys 05:13, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

I think this is irrelevent. Spartian300 (talk) 17:01, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

BridgittLaura
This one is suddenly appeared last two days and making extensive editing in on America Takes All Lands From Mexico And Ottoman Empire TL. Then, user AmericaLoove also suddenly missed and not even disturbed BridgittLaura's editings.

BridgittLaura has a very bad grammar, has not a best ability to write, speak, or understands English, and has a similar fond for Bella Thorne, all of characteristics that almost like AmericaLoove. She(?) also did a copyright infringement for blatanly copying my Italy (Cherry, Plum, and Chrysanthemum) page for her Italy (America Takes All Lands From Mexico And Ottoman Empire) page.

Lately, she stupidly asked on the forum discussion for being appointed as an admin of wiki. (http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:148709#3)

FirstStooge (talk) 11:44, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

I noticed the other day in chat both these users came on and were conversing in a similar manner. It was the first time I had seen either of them in chat, and after they were both on they both left. I'm not sure if that helps, but that's what I witnessed so far. Mscoree (talk) 14:09, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

Seems less "there" than AL, to me. Blocked for spam for three days.

FS, using another article as a base in some form like that is not an infringement. They may have failed at it, but that was surely the attempt.

Lordganon (talk) 15:06, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

May i be an admin? Spartian300 (talk) 17:02, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Spartian, on this wiki you cannot get a promotion simply by asking. Please read the rules on the TSPTF page on how to apply. Asking for a promotion won't help. Mscoree (talk) 17:47, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

It was more or less a joke. Spartian300 (talk) 22:41, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

MattyMG13
I've recently got a message from this user here. Apparently, Yankovic270 and some others on chat went to jump the gun thinking he was Ratc and thus led him to be banned from chat. Me, thinking he was actually a Ratc sockpuppet (seeing as Yank banned him), I went to ban him for 1000 Years.

However with that message he really doesn't seem to be Ratc at all. What should I do? Should I unban him? What do you all think? -Seiga  2014 May 29, 00:28 (CET)

We need actual evidence to confirm if he is Ratc or not. Lately people have been harassing every new user in chat and I don't think that is a good policy. Innocent until proven guilty, not witch hunts on chat. I would propose an IP check normally, but this user seems distinctly not Ratc. Usually when we catch Ratc we at least have evidence (such as a manual IP check), but here it looks like Yank just shot first and asked questions later. For now I'd say unban him until we have some sort of actual evidence. Mscoree (talk) 22:42, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

From now on, i suggest that we should greet each new user, and make sure that we know who they are. Spartian300 (talk) 22:45, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Why'd Yank ban him in the first place?

I say unban him, but run an IP check just to be safe.

22:52, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Not a fan of the new harassment policy. Tr0llis (talk) 22:55, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Matty is actually a user on several other wikis. And he can spell and use English properly, something that Ratc could never seem to manage. Cour *talk* 23:31, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

According to the general concensus he is not Ratc, thus I have unblocked him. It is ok Seiga, accidents happen. Hope the issue is closed. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:09, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Ninjasvswarriors
The user Ninjawarrior has confessed to being a sockpuppet.



I believe this confirms my earlier appeal here. Mscoree (talk) 00:41, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Right so, Ninjas told me his IP;

114.43.147.247.

He wants the TSPTF to know that he has been only using this account ever since his ban (Don't ask me about the details, that's the message I got on the talk page)

He also wants to tell that Flyingninjapanda is an older sockpuppet

Now I don't know how he behaved as Alexlee, but he seems to have improved his ability to control his sinocentrism (if I recall correctly, that was one of his identifiable traits) and his English. Of course I do agree that he should be blocked for creating sockpuppets, but maybe, just maybe, not permanently blocked.

That would be all, sincerely, Sky Green 24 13:44, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

His behaviour has greatly improved if this is the case and is actually not a bad guy to talk to. I think him admitting it but not continuing to use them for his own gain for any reason should disqualify a ban. Hes really a pretty nice guy all around and i have no personal issue to the fact hes openly admiting he has used the before and personally told me he felt bad about it. I think the fact he hasnt used them since the fact is a good sign his behaviour has since changed for the better which is what we should be advocating on this site.

The precedent for something like this would be the blocking of all sockpuppet accounts along with a month-long ban (or two) to get the message across of not sockpuppeting. I agree he has improved, but letting him off the hook so easy would set a bad example. I am in favour of a month-long ban for Ninja. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:05, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

He though has confessed, so though I still believe in a ban, I believe it should be shortened slightly. ~Bfox

I would think 1 month would be a reasonable length of time, although perhaps I could look to block him for two weeks. What is the general concensus? Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:11, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

I hope that Ninja isn't permanently banned, but considering that this is supposed to be an automatic permanent ban, I fear that Lordganon will simply go that route. After all he won best ban last year, and basically circumvented a ban for a year or so. I wish of the best of luck Ninja. Tr0llis (talk) 23:13, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

You realize if we do this Ratc could use this against us? I don't want ninja berma banned, but thought it was important to bring up. Saturn (Talk) 23:32, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Did wikia have to destroy a whole bunch of usernames all linked with Ninja? Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:55, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Saturn, you can't compare Ninja and Ratc. Ninja got his act together and improved his behaivor. Ratc is still immature and isn't trying to change. Two wrongs may not make a right, '' but it makes me feel a lot better in the end! '' 00:11, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Like i said his improvement is obvious and hes been the source of many a good times and laughs on chat and has not been seen with sockpuppets since i believe. I Believe that a short 2 week ban would suffice since i dont believe he can get out of this in any way shape or form. Im not TSPTF so its not up to me but 2 weeks definitely seems reasonable.

I am OK with a 2 week-1 month ban, but please give me prior notice. I have to ask someone to post for me in PMIII. Thank you. Ninjasvswarriors (talk)

^This alone only proves that he's changed. I say no ban at all given that Ninja has proven that he can change, while Ratc has proven that he cannot, given that he has already gone through four, I believe five sockpuppets now? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:37, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

If Ninja receives a chance, rat should receive one in 6 months or something if he doesn't do more socks to see if he has changed. OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

Please don't perma ban me to stop Ratc from coming back to the wiki. Ninjasvswarriors (talk)

Let us not forget you had a chance to come clean a year ago, but neglected to do so. --NFSreloaded (talk)

I woul12:33, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I would really recommend not to ban Ninjasvswarriors. He loves this wiki, and he give great contributions here at Althistory and I am a friend of him in real life and he is an expert in history and makes great recommendations. In fact, he constantly recommends his classmates (Captainjohnrex, Pacific Communist, and theMarxist) not to commit acts of ASBness and also has forced theMarxist not to vandalize LG and Seiga Miyako's page many times.)

Rcchang (talk) 13:28, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry NFS, but I didn't saw that a year ago. I'm really sorry. Ninjasvswarriors (talk)

1 month then? Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:13, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

How about 3 weeks? Bfoxius (talk)

I really don't see a reason to ban him. Him getting a chance a year ago and him getting one today are two entirely different things. It is entire unfair to ban something simply because they got a chance a year ago to change. A lot changes in a year, and if we follow the logic of some of the users here to punish someone for an action in the distant past, none of you would be here. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:37, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

2 weeks I think is good.

23:15, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

For the record, Ninja, if someone posts for you while you're banned, that's an automatic ban extension for you and a possible ban or warning for them.

24.90.246.100 23:46, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

You meaning someone posting for me in PMIII while I'm banned? Ninjasvswarriors (talk)

the rule is that if someone is banned, they can not have someone else post for them,however suddenly invading because you have been banned is considered meta and your nation will most likly be preserved, look at MS's Austria. Two wrongs may not make a right, '' but it makes me feel a lot better in the end! '' 03:38, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to weigh in and say that Ninja has definitely improved and is actually a pretty decent editor. That being said, sockpuppeting is a permabannable offense. I think it's important to remember that, while we really don't want to ban him, rules are rules. That being said, I will not be the one to drop the banhammer. Actually, I'd like to commend him for making it this long with out getting caught. CrimsonAssassin-See you, space cowboys 06:19, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

Punishment is clear - and there is only one. Permanent block to account.

Much better behaved now though. Shame he didn't have the sense to not confess.

As for that posting bit, posting for someone who is blocked is at a minimum a warning. Depends on person and context.

Lordganon (talk) 06:54, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it should be considered sockpuppeting. He made the account after he stopped (was forced to stop) using the Ninjavswarriors account. Aind LG, Ninjas is quite a popular and great guy, and he always has great behavior and also has several great timelines and map games, it would be a shame to block him. Would you be able to make an exception? He has matured a lot since his sockpuppetting days.

Rcchang (talk) 07:05, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

Hello People of Althistory Wiki:

Ninjavswarriors has been notified that he has been permabaned. Therefore he has given a final speech about what he will do in the future, which is posted on the Map Game wiki. He will continue to contribute there.

http://mapgame.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Ninjasvswarriors/Permaban

Please read it, and I wish him best of luck.

Rcchang (talk)

Sigh...

You get permanently blocked for something, then any other account you make gets the same punishment. It's called trying to get around a block.

Could care less about his behavior or popularity.

Lordganon (talk) 08:38, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

* sobbing*

I just felt so bad for Ninja. :(

FirstStooge (talk) 10:32, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

Stuff
Six Kingdoms of New England is just an imitation of A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones). Should it be deleted? I think it counts as derivative work.

02:38, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Even though it is very similar, the setting and houses are different, leading me to believe it should stay. Bfoxius (talk)

The only thing really similar is the concept. It has completely different content so I think it's fine. Mscoree (talk) 17:31, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

No, it's more or less the same story with OTL people and places.

People of the Dawn - Children of the Forest

Yankees - Andals/First Men

Colonisation - Andal landings

John of House Adams - Aegon I of House Targaryen

Succession of House Lodge - Dance of the Dragon or Blackfyre dispute

Green Rebellion - Robert's Rebellion

Brahmin Uprising - Greyjoy Rebellion

Scrimshaw Throne - Iron Throne

Castle Rock - Casterly Rock

Williams' Landing - King's Landing

Foxwoods - Lannisters

Green Mountain people - Northmen

Downeast - Dorne

17:43, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Who cares. You could say that about basically anything on this site. PM3: Spain = Spain, France = France, Albion = England, etc. Tr0llis (talk) 17:51, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

That's based on real life. This is based on fiction. We have rules about that.

18:25, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Chat
As many of you know, I spend more time on the wiki chat than I should. The chat effectively is a form of "frontier justice", where the chat mods hold all the power and use it as they please because they are respected amongst the community. However, many of the mods (myself included) have been neglecting their responsiblities and instead "joke-kicking" people from chat frequently. Since many of the more respected members of the community (LG, NukeVac) don't go on the chat, most of the active chat mods are Constables and some LTs. The TSPTF page was created before the chat was put into place on this wiki, and thus I don't believe it's updated for it. Therefore I propose that either we put a "chat patroller" section in the "duties" section of the TSPTF page, for TSPTF members who want to be active chat mods (because I know there are TSPTF members that don't like to use their chat mod status, and there are some that use it more often). Another suggestion I have is that we put into place a system of guidelines for when chat mods should kick/ban, as we all have our own personal policies, and I've personally seen trolls exploit them on chat. Any thoughts? Bfoxius (talk)

Sounds like a good idea, as the job of patrolling the chat is already an unofficial responsibility anyway. Hopefully this cuts back on the squirrel problems and other nonsensical aspects of chat culture. Mscoree (talk) 17:34, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Chat is supposed to be the place where we do everything and nothing.

17:38, June 1, 2014 (UTC)