Talk:Principia Moderni III (Map Game)

=Resources=

Archives

 * Archive 1
 * Archive 2
 * Archive 3
 * Archive 4
 * Archive 5
 * Archive 6
 * Archive 7
 * Archive 8

Algorithm Template
Because the current algorithm looks like s***, I've taken it upon myself to do the players a favor and create an algo template that is more becoming of a map game of PMIII's caliber. Enjoy. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:40, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Nation One (Attacker)
Total: 0
 * Location: 0
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: 0 = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 0
 * Motive Modifiers: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Nation Two (Defender)
Total: 0
 * Location: 0
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: 0 = 0
 * Military Development: 0
 * Economic Development: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 0
 * Motive Modifiers: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * ((Winner/(Loser+Winner))*2)-1 = 0
 * (0)*(1-1/(2*0)) = 0

Map Issues
''' The issues of the previous map shall be cleared after each map to save up space, unless a discussion is still going on. ''' For the 1675 map, my colony in New Guinea has expanded 100px. My colony will always expand at he rate, just a noticifation for the future. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 11:50, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

Please add Lanna as part of Ayutthaya, not as a vassal. Aternix !?  06:20, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

Polish Imperial Isles are back to Polish rule (with permission of eipmod) Sky Green 24 (Party,quotes) 19:27, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Carantania Island has been established. Sky Green 24 (P, Q ) 16:54, November 17, 2014 (UTC)

The Nehilaw have expanded their corridor to Lake Superior in 1700. Please add this. Shikata ga nai! 12:26, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

For the 1700 Map, Manchu shall be controlling Ming Empire RexImperio (talk) 04:08, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Hey slight tweak needed to the map, the Creek where annexed into the Cherokee nation fully and the Koasati are now a vassal of the Cherokee too. This map shows how it should look. Bare in mind I will also soon be expanding the Shawana nation of my united Kingdom outwards into those areas of civil disarray on both sides of the Shawana. Thanking you :) VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:42, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Westphalia is still completely wrong, and it appears someone deleted my complaints from here. My nation is supposed to be a part of it, and the whole thing is supposed to be united. Mscoree (talk) 22:17, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Labelled


These great and wonderful maps have been made and labelled by Scandinator. Please be sure to thank him for his intense dedication and deep-level research that he put into these maps.

Cultural


Now, I will attempt to list the myriad of cultures that are represented on the map. To do so, I will go by continent.

It is finished! 01:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Religious Map
Alright, added another religion map. Map is based off of the 1655 Map. Same rules apply: List all changes below in the Notes section.

18:46, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

Color Key

All regions are shown according to their plurality religion.

Catholicism is yellow; the Western Church nations are shown in dark gold, and Catholic states whose churches function independently of the Roman Church are shown in pale yellow. Ludwigism is shown in bright gold. Eastern Orthodoxy is orange; Oriental Orthodox sub-branches are burnt orange. *Reformism is red. Sunni Islam is lime green, Shia Islam is forest green; Ibadiyya Islam is dark green, Assafi Islam is bright green, and Paganistic Islam is mint green. The Mastorava is teal blue, Hinduism is sky blue, and Buddhism is dark blue; the Bon religion is pale blue, and Mongolian Buddhism is grey-blue. Confucianism is purple, while Shintoism is violet. Other "pagan" religions are pink; the Mesoamerican pantheon is light pink, the South American pantheon is hot pink, the North American pantheon is fuchsia, and the African pantheons are all dark pink. Other religions will be added as needed.

Notes
 * Added Charismatic Christianity and Mogul Khanate is now Charismatic king Trevor 1 of wales (talk) 12:38, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Mod Event Grievances
Just so that it doesn't clutter the page, please post your mod event questions, comments and grievances here. This -should- be archived every five years.

=General Discussion=

What do we do with an honorary mod?
So yeah I'm back but I'm an honorary mod, so I'm wondering where exactly I stand in regards to my mod authority. I want to focus on the roles of mod events, neutrality Bringer, Air Breather and ASB hunter like EiplecOco and Feudal. So basically am I reinstated or not? No chance of me being a map maker anymore but my ability to look at a situation and be very neutral and unbiased is good I think.

But yeah other mods how do I stand with this all? I don't think we have precedent, but if an old/honorary mod did show up again in the past (like in pm2 I think it happened once or twice) then they got a flood of welcome backs, and it was like they never left, but then they left again. So far it ain't happened when the mod stays back for good. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:57, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Well, welcome back! I think that part of the difference is that the community shifted. The people who play PM3 are quite distinct from the people who play PM2 (whereas PM1'ers were very similar to PM2'ers). Thats not to say that there isn't overlap, just that you are a new face to a number of this game's users.

Furthermore, the whole idea of Honorary Mod really got messed up, in my opinion, when all mods of PM2 were granted Honorary status in this game. We had Mod elections to start the game off, so if you weren't elected then, then I would think that you would not be in the "official" mod status.

That being said, it seems that the mods are getting busier and busier and unable to make as many events as in the past (not complaining here, tbh), so you may be able to work on that. Additionally, the loss/impeachment of Ms has sort of brought about a space for a qualified fellow like you. Your position in the Americas is also a boon, as Europe is too saturated with players.

Best, 05:14, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

I'm in the same boat - I got modship at the beginning of PM3 and then ended up having to drop out for a long while. Honestly I probably couldn't handle being a full-time mod right now anyway but if honorary modship gives me any rights, I would probably throw a few bombs into the mod events every now and again. I wouldn't mind being a "universal chaos mod" whose job is to throw weird curveballs. Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:29, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

To become an actual moderator from the honorary moderator position you need to be voted in (again). Honorary modship is more for people who resigned or are inactive to the point where they are no longer a valid moderator. Mscoree (talk) 22:18, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Can an actual PM3 mod comment on this? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 06:14, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Well, i don't know.the one mod that came back after being inactive was Pita, who came back intermittently in PMII, and never really established himself.he also never acted as a mod after he as declared inactive, so there is no precedent.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:19, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

From what I've seen, what I said is what we've been doing for previous honorary moderators who have considered joining as active moderators. Not to mention that all moderators are voted in, and the honorary moderators have not been yet. Mscoree (talk) 14:28, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Well then can I come back as a mod? I'm back to full time now. Plus seeing all my experience at the job makes it an easy choice. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 18:55, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

The Precedent was set, Nova tried to return once and we had a vote on whether to bring him back in or not. The Vote said no. So the mods would need to vote Von back in (which i assume hed win convincingly)

Bavaria (Attacker)

 * Location:  +10
 * Tactical advantage: +5
 * Nations: Bavaria (L+5), Brandenburg (LV +3), Pomerania (LV +3) = 16/4 = +4
 * Military: +60+10+10+5+5+3 = +93/1 = +93
 * Economy: +60+10 = +70/4 = +18
 * Infrastructure: +20
 * Motive: +3
 * Bavaria: +3
 * Brandenburg: +3
 * Pomerania: +3
 * Chance:
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: +7 +10
 * Recent wars: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 12,000/12,000 = +1
 * Total: +181

Acolapissa

 * Location:  +25
 * Tactical advantage: +3
 * Nations: Acolapissa (L+5) = 5/1 = +5
 * Military: +6 -5 =+1/93 = 0
 * Economy: +6 -2 = +4/70= 0
 * Infrastructure: +7
 * Motive: +9
 * Chance:
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: +4
 * Recent wars: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 0
 * Total: +63

Result

 * ((181/(181+63))*2)-1 = 48%
 * (48)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 36%

Discussion
Two year war and Acolapissa is kill. Feel free to post suggestions to the algo.

Where's Acolapissa?

Post_Mississippia_Collapse_labeled.png

Number 34 on that map. Cookiedamage (talk) 13:47, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Colonies
Why were all my colonies removed from the map? Mscoree (talk) 18:47, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

They were collapsed due to the lack of a centralized government and strong support of another nation ( I think one of the African ones is going to be a tribal state) Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 19:08, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

But I do have a centralized government, and all my colonies are being supported by the Netherlands and Hamburg. Do you meant to tell me that neither the Netherlands or Hamburg is capable of having colonies, or has a decentralized government? Mscoree (talk) 19:11, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

EH dont look ah me i didnt made The event lel Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

There was no event! Someone just edited the map one day and removed them all. Can you please fix this map error? Mscoree (talk) 19:16, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Overthrowing Hated Leader
I noticed that recently there was an event to break Westphalia into several states in protest of being ruled by a foreigner. Since Luxembourg is running rampant under a hated ruler, I believe it's only fair that we break them up to, for plausibility's sake. As such, I propose the following event:



In Luxembourg, after a long period of occupation by the Austrian and Westphalian forces, and the recent enthroning of the previous Archduke of Austria and his family in Frankfurt leads to a series of uprisings throughout the nation claiming for the liberation of their nation. One of the uprisings is heavily crushed by a group of Luxembourgian military corps near the city of Luxembourg, leading to an all out rebellion that spreads rapidly in Luxembourg. The enraged people of the nation enters the lightly defended city and slaughters the loyalist forces in its path to the palace where they find the Duke and slay him while capturing his family and take them into rebel-held territory. Soon landlords reestablish the borders of most of the counties prior to Luxembourg's existence. They leave the Holy Roman Empire citing its “failure to protect its states and inefficient defense against foreign threats” and establish the Luxembourgian confederation, and request for Dutch, French, and Spanish support to defend their nation. Luxembourgian royalist forces manage to hold Luxembourg City (Any act of war by any nation towards any member of the confederation will be an act of war against all members,Vassalage is also impossible in a period of less than 50 years) (Score undoubled: Military: 10, Economy: 8, Infrastructure: 8 for all the nations).

Hopefully that shuts down the implausible mess that is Luxembourg being ruled by a Habsburg. Hopefully that helps, Harvenard2 (talk) 18:59, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

If i recall correctly tr0llis is Luxembourg, idk if Luxembourg is a mess, the culture is pretty much similar throughout the nation and it would be ruled by a Nassau member of the family not a Habsburg one. No reason for a revolt or uprising at all so not happening Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

False Luxembourg is currently owned by Ms, and it is ruled by a Habsburg. Harvenard2 (talk) 19:13, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Afaik as I know the treaty made with the Netherlands was that it was personally owned by the king of the dutch but it was Austrian, with Austria gone it would become of the king. Especially with the fact that the Austrian Habsburg monarch dead. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

Perhpas the worst place for a revolt to occur is 1670s Luxembourg. If you could have picked any nation that wouldn't revolt against a foreign ruler, it would be Luxembourg. Luxembourg has little to no cohesive ethnic or national identity, no tradition of native rule that has recently been broken to be replaced with foereign rule, isn't experiencing especial oppression or high taxation, and really has no reason to revolt. Luxembourg was and presumably is very much a buffer state and administrative division within a larger Austrian (and now Dutch) empire, rather than a seperate nation. Luxembourg has no reason to revolt. Secondly, this is before the era of nationalism. Popular revolts for liberation didn't really occur at this point, not without significant support from disaffected nobles, who receive all their privileges from the king and haven't suffered significantly recently. In short, a revolt in Luxembourg is a ridiculously implausible bad idea. Shikata ga nai! 23:13, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I guess Kras missed my statement on chat, but for the record Luxembourg is owned by myself, not the Dutch. Mscoree (talk) 23:28, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Hesse conquered them all, a half dozen player and NPC states and didn't have a single revolt. There was oppression and high taxation (given the squashing of resistance and the many expensive wars) and he got nothing. Then Hamburg liberates a single province smaller in size than Rhode Island and all hell breaks loose. You mean to tell me someone can aggressively conquer several nations and increase their size by 500%, but if a state retakes a small area that was theirs for years it collapses? Harvenard2 (talk) 23:37, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Now we see the real motivation behind this. It's an overdone attempt to prove a point entirely separate from this event. Hence the fact that Harv, rather than actually referring to my arguments as to why a revolt would never occur in Luxembourg, focused on prior events that occurred in ''different countries. ''Again, Luxembourg has no separate national identity from the HRE and Germany. Luxembourg's noble class - the only group that can plausibly lead a revolt at this point - has no reason to be angered, especially to the poin tof immediately resorting to violent revolution. Nobles don't revolt unless their privileges are seriously under threat by revolting, they risk losing these same privileges. None of the ingredients for a revolt exist here; it's an attempt to prove a point that discards logic and plausibility. Shikata ga nai! 23:50, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

That was just a comparison. Harvenard2 (talk)

Oh mai gawd. I get it now. Harv isn't going against Ms, he's going for IATG. This has nothing to do with Luxembourg per se, he only wants to undermine the plausibility of westphalia revolting against Hamburg. It took me a while to figure it out. Sky Green 24 (Party,quotes) 13:43, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

Not really, the only thing I'm advocating for is this event. I was comparing it to Hamburg, how if he can have his province revolted away, then so should this. Hamburg's province revolting was socially accepted; the norm. If you think I am trying to advocate for it being returned to Hamburg then that's probably a reflection of how you actually think. Harvenard2 (talk) 14:00, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

Haha I just noticed this revolt took away land from multiple nations that they had fairly won in war and gave them to other players. This would be one of the reasons why I pretty much left. Somehow extremely bias things happen and no one cares. (If anyone would like to revolt all of Italy except Rome and make a random confederacy in which I am granted Lombardy again, that would be great.) Tr0llis (talk) 14:23, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

France

 * Location: next to the location of the war: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: Siege Equipment: 5
 * Nations Per Side on the War: +15  France (L), Rhineland (L) Africa(L) 15/3 = 5
 * Military Development: 60/1 = 60
 * Economic: 61 +1, /4 = 15.5


 * Much larger econ +10
 * Not lost previous last three wars +10
 * Larger Colonial Empire +5
 * Has Naval Dominance: +10
 * Nation Fully Mobilized +5
 * Mogadishu +1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7


 * France:Economic Gains +3 + 4
 * Rhineland: +3 +4
 * Africa: +3 +4
 * Chance: 84.49575 =9
 * Nation Age: Mature nation = +5
 * Population:Total: +28 (More than 10 times larger)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 120000 / 6000 = 20
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Total: 184.5

Natchez

 * Location:  +25
 * Tactical advantage: +3
 * Nations: Natchez (L+5) = 5/1 = +5
 * Military: +6 -5 =+1/93 = 0
 * Economy: +6 -2 = +4/70= 0
 * Infrastructure: +7
 * Motive: +9
 * Chance: 84.49575 = 5
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: +4
 * Recent wars: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 0
 * Total: +68

Result

 * ((184.5/(252.5)*2)-1 = 0.461386 = 46.14%
 * (46.14)*(1-1/(2x2)) = 34.605 = 34.6 which means france can topple natchez in 2 years

Discussion

 * v French Cahokie begins Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

France

 * Location: next to the location of the war: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: Siege Equipment: 5


 * Nations Per Side on the War: +15  France (L), Basse Bourgogne (L) Sardinia(LV) Artois (LV) 16/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 93/1 = 93


 * Not lost previous last three wars +10
 * Nation Fully Mobilized +5
 * Economic: 104 /4 = 26
 * Much larger econ +10
 * Larger Colonial Empire +5
 * Has Naval Dominance: +10
 * Mogadishu +1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * France:Economic Gains +3 + 4
 * Basse bourgogne: +3 +4
 * Sardinia: +3 +4
 * Artois: +3 +4
 * Chance: 84.49575 =
 * Nation Age: Mature nation = +5
 * Population:Total: +28 (More than 10 times larger)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 150000 / 6000 = 20
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Total: 194

Chahta

 * Location:  +25
 * Tactical advantage: +3
 * Nations: Chahta (L+5) = 5/1 = +5
 * Military: +6 -5 =+1/ = 0
 * Economy: +6 -2 = +4/= 0
 * Infrastructure: +7
 * Motive: +9
 * Chance: 
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: +4
 * Recent wars: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 0
 * Total: +63

Result

 * ((194/(257)*2)-1 = 0.5097 = 51%
 * (51)*(1-1/(2x2)) = 38.25 = 38.25 which means france can topple chahta in 2 years

France

 * Location: next to the location of the war: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: Siege Equipment: 5


 * Nations Per Side on the War: +15  France (L), Basse Bourgogne (L) Sardinia(LV) Artois (LV) 16/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 85/1 =85


 * Not lost previous last three wars +10
 * Nation Fully Mobilized +5
 * Economic: 109 /4 = 27
 * Much larger econ +10
 * Larger Colonial Empire +5
 * Has Naval Dominance: +10
 * Mogadishu +1
 * Fiji +3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * France:Economic Gains +3 + 4
 * Basse bourgogne: +3 +4
 * Sardinia: +3 +4
 * Artois: +3 +4
 * Chance: 
 * Nation Age: Mature nation = +5
 * Population:Total: +28 (More than 10 times larger)
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 200000 / 6000 = 33
 * Recent Wars: -20
 * Total: 204

Chickasha

 * Location:  +25
 * Tactical advantage: +3
 * Nations: Chahta (L+5) = 5/1 = +5
 * Military: +6 -5 =+1/ = 0
 * Economy: +6 -2 = +4/= 0
 * Infrastructure: +7
 * Motive: +9
 * Chance: 
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: +4
 * Recent wars: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 0
 * Total: +63

Result

 * ((204/(267)*2)-1 = 0.5280 = 53%
 * (53)*(1-1/(2x2)) = 39.75 = 40% which means france can topple Chickasha in 2 years

Scandinavia

 * Location: next to the location of the war: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: Siege Equipment: 5
 * Nations Per Side on the War:  Scandinavia, Iceland = 5/2= 3
 * Military Development: 40+10+10+5+5+3= 73/1= 73
 * Economic: 40+10+5= 55/4 = 14
 * Locations Bonus: 3+1+1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 7+5+5-5= 12
 * Nation Age: Mature nation = +5
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 30,000/3,000= 10
 * Theaters of War: 0
 * Total: 157

Susquehanna

 * Location:  +25
 * Tactical advantage: +3
 * Nations: Susquehanna(L+5) = 5/1 = +5
 * Military: +6 -5 =+1/73 = 0
 * Economy: +6 -2 = +4/55= 0
 * Infrastructure: +1
 * Motive: +9-5+1= 5
 * Chance:
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: +4
 * Recent wars: 0
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of troops: 0
 * Total: +53

Result

 * ((157/(210)*2)-1 = 0.4952 = 49.52%
 * (49.52)*(1-1/(2x2)) = 37.14 = 34.6 which means Scandinavia can topple the Susquehanna in 2 years

Discussion
Iceland has some  cool  moves. Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 20:05, November 6, 2014 (UTC)

Japan and Wu (Attacker)
Total: 142
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 6
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: L,L = 2
 * Military Development: 40+10(has not lost previous 3 wars)+10(naval dominance)+5(more total troops)+10 (fully mobilized)=75/1=75
 * Economic Development: 40+5(larger eco)+5(larger trade)=50/12=4
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+3+4+4/2=9
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Min (Defender)
Total: 52
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: L = 0
 * Military Development: 12-3 (smaller armed forces)-10 (not initially mobilized)=-1 = 0
 * Economic Development: 14-2(smaller eco)=0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive: 9+4-5=8
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * ((142/(142+52))*2)-1 = 0.46391752
 * (x)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 0.34793814

Hey
Is there any decent nations I can take, by decent I mean ones that arent a colonization target and can at least expand a little bit. -Ashlee 22:41, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

The best option you have is to pick some nation in China. Why?

- Europe is full - America gonna get colonized. No hope of surviving without becoming someone's bitc... I mean protectorate - Australia going to get colonized - Africa is useless as usual (Except when Viva plays as Africa) and so, I won't suggest it - So yeah.. You got China

RexImperio (talk) 15:52, November 10, 2014 (UTC)

I think Africa isn't really useless if you play it right. But America is soon to be completely carved up, so if u are planning for the long term don't play an american nation. I'm only american nation because I wanna jump ship eventually. I'm trying to speed up american colonization and facilitate expansion.

Chinese states, Indonessian states, Cacasus states, Laos, Cambodia and African nations are basically what you have to choose from if you want your nation to last a while. I'd say go Cambodia, Zimbabwae, Tibet or Wolof. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 00:14, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

I personally think it would be too late to play as Zimbabwe, since other European nations won't let you expand properly. I really wouldn't suggest Cambodia. Tibet has already been broken into three states [Kham, idk, and idk] and is quite weak with Eiplec trying to vassalize it. I am not aware what Wolof is.. Indonesian states is another bad option because a certain European nation plans to establish hegemony in the area. I believe Swank will be invading Caucasus states soon, so not a good option.

Tbh I'd suggest China. China has been fractured, and at the moment there is no major power in China. There are 5 players in China at the moment So basically, there is no major power in China. Pita wants to unite China and form his own nationalist empire. Me and Josh plan to do the same although Josh is allied with Spain and I am allied with Japan, and Yank doesn't do much. [Preceding comment added by (I'd assume) Pita]
 * Yankovic [Ming Empire]
 * PitaKang [Imperium of Heaven + Mongol Khaganate]
 * RexImperio [Machu Empire + Hailar Khaganate]
 * JoshTheRoman [Wu Empire + Min Empire]
 * Toby [Yunan][Inactive]

The Netherlands
Total: 202+chance
 * Location: (15+20+20+20)/4 = 19
 * Location Bonus: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 5+2 = 7
 * Nations: Netherlands (L), East India Company (LV), Jehore (LV), Brunei (LV) = 14/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 80+10+10+5+5+3 = 113
 * Economic Development: 80+10+5+3 = 98/12 = 8
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Motive: 3+4+5 = 12
 * Chance:
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 7,000,000 = 9+10 = 19
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 25,000/7,500 = 3
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Pagaruyung
Total: 61+chance
 * Location: 25
 * Tactical Advantage: 3
 * Nations: Pagaruyung (L) = 5
 * Military Development: 12-2-5-10 = -5 = 0
 * Economic Development: 14-2 = 12 = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive: 5-5 = 0
 * Chance:
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 900,000 = 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Number of Troops: 7,500/25,000 = 0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Results
The Dutch East Indies coalition can topple the native state after two years of combat.
 * ((202/(202+61))*2)-1 = 0.5361
 * ( 0.5361)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 0.4021

Discussion
Made this at the request of Nk. 23:58, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Sky for Mod
Recently, PM3 has been in short supply of competent or active mods, and that is a problem, as it impeds the active process of playing the game and making it move smoothly. As a result, I propose that we add another mod to the ranks, namely SkyGreen.

Sky is a competent and relatively plausible player, who understands the way algos work and some of the other more complex rules present in game. In addition, he has a calm demeanor and usually interacts with other players in a tolerant and understanding fashion. For those reasons, I nominate him as a moderator for PM3.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 17:04, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

For

 * FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 17:31, November 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * 21:50, November 14, 2014 (UTC)Crim de la Crème
 * Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 22:54, November 14, 2014 (UTC) (Cause, Why not?)
 * &#34;SO SAYETH THE EAGLE&#34; - Fascist Eagle ಠ_ಠ (talk) 20:20, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * &#34;SO SAYETH THE EAGLE&#34; - Fascist Eagle ಠ_ಠ (talk) 20:20, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

For

 * Saturn (Talk/Blog) 18:21, November 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * -Seiga [[Image:Miko THPW2.png|30px]] [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|25px|border]] 2014 November 14, 21:13 (CET)
 * SwankyJ &#34;The Italian Stallion&#34; (talk) 19:57, November 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * CNC1 Nod Emblem.png Aternix !? Atheism.png 21:09, November 14, 2014 (UTC) I think Sky would make a good and active mod. ;)
 * Shikata ga nai! 21:57, November 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Blocky858 (talk) 17:04, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:44, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * RexImperio (talk) 05:31, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:44, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * RexImperio (talk) 05:31, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
I uhh, accept this nomination. I mean I talked about it to MP, and I'm pretty much the only one who can be active 7 days a week since I'm not in college. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 17:08, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Btw shouldn't sine's vote be in mod votes? <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 23:24, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

It should i was distracted and put it in here lol Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 04:09, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

What duties will you perform now new mod? Getting the 1685 map would be a good start in my opinion. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:45, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

A lot of mapping, I'm really good at that. I'll also make a lot of events (I made a few of the recent ones too). I'll help keep the game alive then the college boys are busy, oh, and I'm hillarious. Expect entertaining and useful events (without Batman). <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 21:20, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Retirement
It is with heavy heart that i tender my resignation from PM III. I simply do not have the time between jobs and school. I will remain on the wiki and will be happy to stay on in an advisory capacity. But unfortunately i must stop playing the game. I how to rejoin later but i am unsure. I ask that Britannia be treated with respect and should i return, remain a possibility. Thank you all for the wonderful time. FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 17:35, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

You will be missed Andy. Very missed. SwankyJ &#34;The Italian Stallion&#34; (talk) 20:00, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Let it be written that there was great wailing thoughout the world on this day. Commandante Lemming (talk) 21:34, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Today we lose a good player, a fair moderator, and an even better person. It was great fun with you Andy, I hope things get better. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 21:57, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Shame to see you leave man. I hope you come back again! <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:49, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Great Powers (Attacker)
Total: 84
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 3+1+2+1=7
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Damascus (L), Tartary (L), Roman Empire (L), Egypt (LV) = 0
 * Military Development: 20+20+20+20+10 (No lost wars)+10(Naval dominance)+5 (More total troops)+5(fully mobilized)=110/45= 2
 * Economic Development: 20+20+20+20+5 (Larger eco.)+5 (Larger trade)=90/68=1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+5+5+3 / 4 = 6
 * Motive Modifiers: -3+6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: (150,000+65,000+200,000+200,000)= 615,000/180,000 = 3
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Caucasus Confederation (Defender)
Total: 53
 * Location: 25+20=23
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Georgia (L), Armenia (L), West Azerbaijan (LV), Assyria Major (LV), Assyria Minor (LV) =19/18 = 3
 * Military Development: 12+12+12+12+12-10 (Not mobilized)-5(Much Smaller armed forces) = 45
 * Economic Development: 14+14+14+14+14-2(Smaller eco) = 68 = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive: 9+3+3+3+3 / 5 = 3
 * Motive Modifiers: -3-6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age:
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 180,000/615,000 = 0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
(84/(84+53))*2-1=0.22627737226

(x)*(1-1/(2*2))=0.16970802919

Discussion
Work in progress, please do not edit. "<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 02:26, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Need help? <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 08:09, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Fixed. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 20:18, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

A-J(Attacker)
Total: 63+troops
 * Location: 20+20+20+15/4=19
 * Location Bonus: 2
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: Ayutthaya (L), Japan (L), North Vietnam (LV), South Vietnam (LV) = 16/10 = 2
 * Military Development: 20+20+20+18+10 (No lost wars)+10(Naval dominance)+5 (More total troops)+5(fully mobilized)=108/11=10
 * Economic Development: 20+20+20+18+5 (Larger eco.)+5 (Larger trade)=88/26=3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+3+3+3 / 4 = 5
 * Motive Modifiers: -3+6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Cambodia (Defender)
Total: 51
 * Location: 25+20=23
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Cambodia (L), Laos (L) = 0
 * Military Development: 12+12-10 (Not mobilized)-3(Smaller armed forces) = 0
 * Economic Development: 14+14-2(Smaller eco) = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive: 9+3 /2 = 2
 * Motive Modifiers: -3-6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age:
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * ((63/(51+63))*2)-1 = 0.10526315788
 * (0.10)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 8.7% or roughly 8.7% of the total land owned by Laos and Cambodia is conquered in two years

For the one who made the previous algo, this is how you do the result algo (Results From 1st Algo)*(1-1/(2*Number of Year War Lasts)) RexImperio (talk) 05:38, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Fixed the war to the correct amount of years. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 05:48, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
Japan is well... Winning. Kind of. Made at the request of Sat. <font color="#50E0F0">Sky <font color="#50FF60">Green <font color="A00000">24 (Party,quotes) 22:26, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the algo, can I please know how much land I am able to take? Aternix !?  09:16, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Results were done wrong, therefore I shall be fixing them. RexImperio (talk) 05:33, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it. Aternix !?  21:25, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Great Powers (Attacker)
Total: 171
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 3+1+2+1=7
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Damascus (L), Tartary (L), Roman Empire (L) = 3
 * Military Development: 20+20+20+10 (No lost wars)+10(Naval dominance)+5 (More total troops)+5(fully mobilized)=90/1= 90
 * Economic Development: 20+20+20+5 (Larger eco.)+5 (Larger trade)=70/12=6
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+3+3/ 3 = 5
 * Motive Modifiers: -3+6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 200,000/150,000 = 1
 * Recent Wars: -6
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Caucasus Confederation (Defender)
Total:51
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Caucasus Confederation (L) = 0
 * Military Development: 12-10 (Not mobilized)-3(Smaller armed forces) = -1
 * Economic Development: 14-2(Smaller eco) = 12 = 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive: 9
 * Motive Modifiers: -3-6
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age:
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 150,000 = 0
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
(171/(51+171))*2-1=0.54054054054054054054054...

0.27027027... in 1 year. With the previous war (which was changed to 1 year but someone (mp) forgot to change the algo) it's over 1/3. Caucasia falls and will be split.

Discussion
Still in progress. "<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:01, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Mp wanted me to fix it, so I did. I expect a port there for Croatia for my troubles. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 13:43, November 17, 2014 (UTC)

Well since Georgia was invaded just a while ago, I doubt its forces would not be mobilized. In fact, I have noticed that every single war that takes place nowadays has got 'Not mobilized' on the NPC's side.

This is plain wrong.. Cause if the NPC is going to have Not Mobilized then the Aggressor should also have motive as 'Lands etc' since if there is a valid casus belli, then both sides would have prepared forces. However, if the motive was being greedy, then certainly; the nation defending itself would be unaware of any incoming invasion. RexImperio (talk) 06:32, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

You are completely correct. The motive is, in its essence, greed. I just forgot to change the motive since I did a lot of changing around other stuff and when I calculated the need score for the anti-caucasus side I just summed everything up. So yes, the nation would be unaware of the invasion for that reason. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 14:39, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Japan
Total: 55
 * Location: +20 (Manchurian Enclave), +20 (Manchurian Enclave), +20, +15 = +19
 * Location Bonus: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Nations: Japan, Manchuria, Taiwan, Ainu = +5,+5,+3,+3 = +4
 * Military Development: +20,+20,+10,+10 (Naval War) = +67/118 = +0
 * Bonus: +10 -3
 * Economic Development: +20,+20,+20,+20 = +78 /115 = +0
 * Bonus: -2
 * Expansion: -3
 * Motive: +3,+3,+3,+3 = +5
 * Motive Modifiers: +4,+4
 * Chance: +8
 * Edit count: 1,019
 * UTC: 1:03 = 3
 * Total: 1019/103*pi (3.14159265359) = 31.0804166409
 * Nation Age: +0,+5,+0,+0 = 1
 * Population: +9
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 67/84 = +0
 * Recent Wars: -2,0,0,0 = -2
 * Vassals and Puppets: (Not needed)

Hispania (Defender)
Total: 65 (Spain) 55 (Japan)
 * Location: +25 +20 +20 +15 +5 = +17
 * Location Bonus: +20
 * Tactical Advantage: +2
 * Nations: Spain(L) Philippines (L) Shanghai (LV) Qingdao (LV) Greater Cochin (LV) = +3
 * Military Development: +100 +10 +5 +3 =+118/67 = +2
 * Economic Development: +100 +10 +5 = +115/78 = +1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Motive: +5 (not heartland but over 20 years) +3 +3 +3 +3 = +5
 * Motive Modifiers: +4 (Spain) +4 (Philippines)
 * Chance: +8
 * Edit count: 6277
 * UTC: 2:50 =
 * Total: 6277/250*pi (3.14159265359) = 78.83912
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: +9 +2 = +11
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 84/67 = +1
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: (not needed)

Result

 * ((65/(55+65))*2)-1 = 0.08333333333
 * (0.08333333333)*(1-1/(2*3))/2 = 0.034 = 3.4%

Discussion
Japan loses the war, Japan loses 5% - someone needs to to a pixel count, btw. I don't know how to do that XD. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 16:15, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah.. Manchu aren't going to get involved in this war. You're going to mess up my 'Won all last 3 wars' thing U_U.. Btw 84 and 67 troops? RexImperio (talk) 06:10, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

Japan has a grand total of 14,194 pixels, according to the latest map. 00:45, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Sat don't tell me you just gave up 482 px to Feud :/

Anyways... The Manchu are not handing over any land. Sat can give up lands from his vassals RexImperio (talk) 10:41, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Nicobar?
Hey,

just a quick question about Nicobar... After the Lankan Invasion of Nicobar (being the indpendent country), the land I noticed in the algorithm (now archived) should be owned by him. However, I have also noticed that the island (OTL Car Nicobar) is not coloured as a Lankan controlled land. This leaves me with the impression that he no longer or never did own it, and after requesting numerous times for the colour to be added and it not being added, I feel like it is still an independent country.

Is this correct? Thank-you. Aternix !?  10:18, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

By the way, that was also my 1,000th edit. :D

Well, most likely the Map makers forgot to add it RexImperio (talk) 13:40, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

Great Nicobar, in all actuality, should be my color, as I had trading posts and colonists there over a century before anyone did anything else with it. I am that guy (talk)

Well haha.. That complicates things even more. xD Aternix  !?  05:34, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Didn't Sri Lanka guy invade it sometime during late 1500s?

Yeah that's what I'm talking about. But it was in the early 1600's. Aternix  !?  00:32, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Bajanate Coalition (Attacker)
Total: 177
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 0
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: Red Croatia (L),White Croatia (L), Poland (L),Carantania (LV) = 4
 * Military Development: 80+10(Naval)+10(no lost wars)+5(mobilized)+5(m0AR troops)=110/1=110
 * Economic Development: 80+5(Larger trade)+10(Much larger)=95/12=8
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7+5+5+3 / 4 = 6
 * Motive Modifiers: +6-3
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 300,000/120,000=3
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Kliment Bohemia (Defender)
Total: 51
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Nations: Bohemia (L) = 0
 * Military Development: 12-3-10
 * Economic Development: 14-2=12
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7
 * Motive: 9 = 0
 * Motive Modifiers: -6-3
 * Chance: 0
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 120,000/0=0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result

 * ((177/(51+177))*2)-1 = 0.55263157894
 * (X)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 0.4144736842

Discussion
Bohemia falls in two years, idiocracy is overthrown. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 15:18, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Wu
Total: 73
 * Location: +20,+20,+20 /3 = +20
 * Location Bonus: N/A
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Nations: Wu, Min, Yantai = 5,3,5/10 = 1
 * Military Development: 20,20,20 = 80/17 = 5
 * Bonus:+10+5+5
 * Economic Development: 20,20,20+10 = 70/22 = 3
 * Bonus: +5,+5 = +10
 * Expansion: +0
 * Motive: 7,5,5 = 9
 * Motive Modifiers: +4+5 (High Morale).
 * Chance: +5
 * Edit count: 1,291
 * UTC: = 4:48
 * Total: 1,291 / 448 * π = 9.05311632988
 * Nation Age: 5,5,0 = +3
 * Population: 8+2
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 55,000 (Wu) 15,000 (Min) 7,500 (Yantai) = 77,500/50,000 = +1
 * Recent Wars: +0
 * Vassals and Puppets: (not needed).

X and Y (Defender)
Total: 64
 * Location: +25,25 = 50/2 = +25
 * Location Bonus: +0
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Nations: 5,5 = 10 = 0
 * Military Development: 6*2*2 -7= 17/60 = 0
 * Bonus: -10+3 = -7
 * Economic Development: 6,6*2 -2 = 22/60 = 0
 * Bonus: -2
 * Expansion: -0
 * Infrastructure: 7,7 = +14
 * Motive: 9,3 = -3/2 = -2
 * Motive Modifiers: -10-5
 * Chance: +3
 * Edit count: 1,291
 * UTC: = 4:48
 * Total: 1,291 / 448 * π = 9.05311632988
 * Nation Age: +5,+5 = 10/2 = +5
 * Population: 17,000,000 = 8
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 25,000 (X) 25,000 (Y) = 50,000/77,500 = +0
 * Recent Wars: +0
 * Vassals and Puppets: (not needed)

Result
(73/(73+64))*2-1=0.06569343064

(0.06)*(1-1/(2*1))= 0.03 so Wu win 3% of X + Y land after a single year at war.

Discussion
...

Its a tie what do we do? Saturn (Talk/Blog) 21:56, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps when we take down you know who, we can aid Josh in defeating the Small Kingdoms. RexImperio (talk) 05:06, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Voldemort joined PMIII? <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 10:35, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

.... RexImperio (talk) 11:15, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... Don't you think the Mil and Eco scores for the X and Y Kingdoms would double? 6 + 6 = 12*2 = 24 like we do with all the algos... Unless you divide their 24 by 2 for no apparent reason for there is no mention of such a thing in the rules and addition of such a rule at this point would be blatant bias. RexImperio (talk) 11:20, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Moreover, it is impossible for X and Y to have 12 score for Mil and Eco and 14 for Infra. It should have been 14 for Infra, 28 for Eco and 24 for Mil keeping in mind the development scores granted to NPCs and that Mil/Eco scores are doubled. RexImperio (talk) 11:58, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Fixed the results. Wu has lost the war. Saturn (Talk/Blog) 13:48, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure who made this algo, but I beg you not to make one ever again. Now, X and Y lose and due to their disorganized status the max amount is multiplied by 1.5. So yeah, choose how long you want it to last. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 14:28, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Well this was easy. JoshTheRoman (talk) 17:47, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Josh you just won 9% of their land, not 33.3% RexImperio (talk) 17:54, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Holidays
<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:0.4em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Hello everyone,

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">So I graduated high school yesterday, and am going on an overseas holiday for a month to celebrate. I will try my very best to continue posting as per normal, but there is a chance I will not be able to. My current (1693) turn is fairly generic, and can be copy-pasted if someone would be kind enough to do so. Thanks, Callumthered (talk) 23:12, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">I envy you :(. I have to wait till June to get out and then high school is no more.

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Congrats tho. If you want, I could copy + paste for you, and I promise I won't let my pro-Bavarian politics slip into your posts XD. Cookiedamage (talk) 00:49, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">I promise I won't mod event oldenburg into balkanizing... yet. Just kidding, have fun tho and see ya back in 1723/1724. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 10:37, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

<p style="border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin-top:1em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;vertical-align:baseline;">Congratulations, Callum! Have fun! Where are you going, and, more generally, where do Aussies go for vacation? (Haha, its summer for you.) 01:07, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

Rome (Attacker)
Total: 154
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 6
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Rome (L), = 1
 * Military Development: 20+10+10+5-2=43
 * Economic Development: 20+10+5=12
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Motive Modifiers: +4+5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 7066/(1*9*5*pi) = 49.9817256839
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 7500/2500=3
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Tuscacora, or something like that (Defender)
Total: 56
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: 1
 * Military Development: 6-3-10=-7
 * Economic Development 5/2=3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7/2=4
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive Modifiers: -5+4
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
Revolt is killed in one turn. (1693)
 * ((154/(154+56))*2)-1 = 46%
 * (49)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 24%

More will undoubtably follow. "<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 21:26, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Which number is it in the Native tribes 24, 25, 26 and or 30? Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 00:30, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

None, this is actually me making up for a map error in previous ages. There are no map changes as a result of this algo.

"<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:37, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

Thimogna then? :v

Attacker: Greater Japan - Manchuria
Total:  95
 * Location: +18
 * Location Bonus: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +6
 * Nations: Manchu Empire [L], Hailar Khaganate [L], Empire of Japan [L], Formosa [LV], Yantai [LV] Ainu [LV] = 24/5 = 4.9 ~ 5
 * Military Development:  138/10 = +38
 * Military Modifer: 120 + 5 [Fully Mobilized], +3 [Moderately Sized Forces], +5 [More Total Troops], +10 [Naval Dominance] = 138
 * Economic Development: 127/18 = 7.0 ~ +7
 * Economic Bonus: 120 + 5 [Larger Economy], +5 [Larger Colonial Empire], -3 [Receding Econony] = 107
 * Expansion:  0
 * Motive: +7 [Hegemony]
 * Modifer: -3 [Non-demo Nations], +6 [High Morale] = +3
 * Chance: +9
 * ​Edit Count:  782 + 2429 = 3211
 * UTC: 1*6*4*0 [16:40]
 * Total: 252.191
 * Nation Age:  0 [Normal?]
 * Population: +8 + 2 [Population Modifier] = +10
 * Recent Wars:  -10
 * Military Strengh (Troops): 275,000/150,000 = 1.8 ~ +2
 * Puppets and Vassals:

Defender: Ming Empire
Total:  43
 * Location: 25+
 * Location Bonus: +1
 * Tactical Advantage: +1
 * Nations: Ming [L] = 5/24 = 0.2 ~ 0
 * Military Development: 10/138 = 0.01 ~ 0
 * Military Modifer: 20 - 3 [Smaller Forces], +3 [Moderately Sized Forces], -10 [Not Initially Prepared] = 10
 * Economic Development:  18/127 = 0.01 ~ 0
 * Economic Bonus: 20 - 2 [Smaller Economy] = 18
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +9 [Defending Against Fatal Attack]
 * Modifer: +4 [Non-Demo], -5 [Low Morale] = -1
 * Chance: +5
 * ​Edit Count:  13,245
 * UTC: 1*6*4*0 [16:40]
 * Total: 1040.259
 * Nation Age: -5 [Ancient Nation]
 * Population: +8
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Military Strengh (Troops): 150,000/275,000 = 0.2 ~ 0
 * Puppets and Vassals:

Result:
((95/(95+43)*2)-1 = 0.3768 or 37.68

(0.3768)*(1-1/(2 x 5)) = 0.339 or 33.9%. So the Ming are toppled after 5 years of warfare •-•

And on 1538, the Ming Empire had revealed it's aggressive nature and invaded the Manchu Empire. Thereafter, the Manchu were treated badly and so on..

And today.. Today the Manchu shall reclaim their lost honour. Today the Ming will be taught a lesson that the Manchu never forget and the Manchu never forgive. RexImperio (talk) 11:52, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

Oh and two other nations that also aided the Ming in 1538 shall also be punished... soon RexImperio (talk) 11:52, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
So you big excuse is a war I wasn't even responsible for? Go f*ck yourself Rimp. Yank 21:15, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to pay a minimum amount of attention to the game. Enough that you notice when, say, someone declares war on you. Shikata ga nai! 21:39, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

He did not notice, Sat told him about the invasion on his Talk Page. Nevertheless, Ming would've been invaded whether Manchu were invaded in 1538 or not, because the presence of Ming blocks Manchu expansion.

Moreover, judging by your attitude; I personally believe I did a good job is conquering the Ming. Nevertheless your feelings regarding Ming are irrelevant to me for if you really cared about the Ming then certainly, you would have atleast added more than 'Ming expand Eco and Mil' to your turn, and even that is the lowest contribution you could do. RexImperio (talk) 04:06, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Rome and Cherokee(Attackers)
Total: 151
 * Location: 20
 * Location Bonus: 6
 * Tactical Advantage: 7
 * Nations: Rome (L), Cherokee (L) = 5
 * Military Development: 20+10+10+5-2=43
 * Economic Development: 20+10+5=12
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Motive: 7
 * Motive Modifiers: +4+5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 7066/(1*9*5*pi) = 49.9817256839
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+20
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 7500/2500=3
 * Recent Wars: -4
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Mvskoke Etvlwv / Creek nation
Total: 56
 * Location: 25
 * Location Bonus:
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Nations: 1
 * Military Development: 6-3-10=-7
 * Economic Development 5/2=3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Infrastructure: 7/2=4
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive Modifiers: -5+4
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit count: 0
 * UTC: 0 =
 * Total: 0/0*pi (3.14159265359) =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: +10
 * Number of Troops: 0/0
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Vassals and Puppets: 0

Result
Victory in two turns.
 * ((151/(151+56))*2)-1 = 45%
 * (45)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 33.75%

Disscussion
Hey so I've not done any of these new PM3 algorithms and not done an algorithm in PM2 for more than a year. Hence I'm asking for help as I'm rusty and can't really remember much about making these correctly. PLEASE HELP ME DO THIS ALGORITHM RIGHT. THank you for your help --<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:08, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

Finished as far as I know, ask me if there are any questions. "<font color="#AACC99">This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 19:18, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

This looks good, I'm too lazy to look over it in depth. So yeah, rejoice peasants, the algo is acceptable. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 17:09, November 24, 2014 (UTC)

Ok. Well then if that is the case the Creek are conquered! The Cherokee and the Romans will split up their nation in half equally. So the map would look like the map on the right. I have also added the Shawana to my colour to signify my dynastic union with them, which come 1700 will be a full personal union because the current Shawana King will have been killed and my Cherokee Prince and his Shawana Princess will become the new King and Queen of the Shawana. Then a few years later my current Cherokee king dies and then both the Cherokee and Shawana will have the same monarch. They will then unite the two nations together to form the United Cherokee Shawana Kingdom. Otherwise I will expand further into the former Cahokian territories which are in civil dissarray next to the Shawana nation. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:28, November 24, 2014 (UTC)

Britannia Events
According to several users there is some sort of plan to collapse the nation of Britannia through moderator events. Worse yet, I have been told there is a plan for certain foreign nations to "establish hegemony" in the British Isles. If this is actually the case, I ask that the moderators please consider. Britannia has a player now and I don't think it's really fair to do this. I don't really care about bad moderator events, but (assuming what these handful of people tell me is true) I ask that attention be paid to make sure they aren't bias or excessive. Thanks, Tr0llis (talk) 23:46, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

As a mod, I have to admit it is unfair to Tr0ll to force his nation to suffer a series of events that allow the other 2 powers (Hispania and France) to attempt to do what they plan. However I do suggest that Tr0ll is forced to solve this problem by marrying off the recently widowed Queen Amelia. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 23:49, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

This is why i said we needed to wars over britannia, one to oust tr0llis and one to do the civil war. Also france won't get involved, I'm interested mostly cause of calais (lel) but my concern currently is Cahokia. Furthermore Dat Britanny must fall Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 01:29, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

That comment essentially proves my point.

In summary: Congrats, Tr0llis (talk) 01:41, November 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Bias moderators who wish to make events "to oust tr0llis", ie kick out a new player simply because it's Tr0llis.
 * Bias moderators who are motivated by land acquisitions and personal gains.

To be Honest, No mod wanted you in that place anyway, maybe only Sky, So yes you are not welcomed in britannia and IDIOT, i said that i wasn't going to do anything any time soon, and that i wasn't in favour of bringing britannia into such civil war without a previous war on britannia (Which happened to be yours). Don't care if you are or not playing as it, I still want calais and will take it when the time comes. Don't make it any earlier. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

"No mod wanted you in that place anyway" etc, at this point you have confessed to being openly bias and are targeting me because of who I am. I'm not sure if I should be mad about that, or disappointed that no one is going to care. Tr0llis (talk) 01:56, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

If the mods want you out, then they want you out. it doesn't mean they'll be biased in doing so. Furthermore, I don't see any indication they do, just that in order to create negative mod events about Brittannia they would have to first get you out, which is true. It also doesn't, however, mean that they're being biased and targeting you with mod events. I'm pretty sure the Britannia events predated your becoming Britannia. I don't necessarily agree with them, I just don't think they're a manifestation of bias, only of a general desire to cause some chaos in a nation, which is a mod's job. Let's not incite a discussion about a possible civil war and its plausibility into yet another shitstorm about bias and conspiracy. There have been enough of those already. Shikata ga nai! 02:33, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Part of the reason I thought the moderators were being bias was because of what some of the mods told me was about to come. The 1701 event comes to mind, which because of this thread most likely, Sine has not posted. Tr0llis (talk) 02:39, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

To answer the issue here, this was a decision taken by several mods when we saw how many people wanted Britannia. We decided that this had the potential for some interesting stuff to happen in the game. In truth, PMIII (and the PM franchise) is just another alternative history. A story. It's our job as moderators to keep the story interesting and intense for everyone. We decided that, in the interest of giving these people a shot at Britain (all of whom have a fair chance at winning), we'd spark a civil war that would basically spell how the 18th century would play out. Tr0llis, it would be highly appreciated if you would play the game, try to have some fun, and not be the little boy who cried bias. Thank you. Crim de la Crème 02:40, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Except that is all an indirect way of saying what Sine said. There is no attempt at story telling, there is no even sides, or chances. This is about removing someone you don't like through moderator events. How is someone supposed to "play the game" when they sign up and right away their nation is destroyed, and all the worlds superpowers want to invade you? Again, I am mostly going off what some of the moderators have told me, I don't know the full story, but Sky for one told me to post this here, and told me that there was bias and bad events to come. I honestly don't really care, but I was told to make this, and now you're just trying to defend an opening bias (as some people have even told me) and unfair series of events. Need I remind you how you whined for days about ms causing a revolt in a small area of your nation, one which he could understandably have interest in? Now imagine if the world's superpowers did the same thing because they want hegemony in the UK. You guys are doing the same thing that ms did times ten in terms of bias events. You shouldn't even be making events about a rival like that, let alone one that some of you openly want to conquer in part. And why Britannia? They sit here and hardly expand, while Spain conquers half the world and gets no events? This is a very unequal distribution of events, and one clearly motivated by bias/personal want. Tr0llis (talk) 03:11, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

I know I'm not really involved in this, but I read what Crim said and cringed, because it honestly sounds like trolling. It literally sounds like an EA spokesperson explaining why they had to put a feature in a game, hell the part about storytelling sounded familiar, because they did. Storytelling, are you kidding me? Please explain how randomly breaking up the UK into individual nations is a right of your creative freedoms, while the Scandinavian union, one which in OTL was almost never united, cannot ever be dissolved? Please explain how when there was a revolt in Scandinavian Germany, based OTL and well written (storytelling if you will) it was disputed and disputed by your yourself. That's heavy hypocritical. If what you're saying actually is true, I'm sure you won't mind if in a century we do this exact same thing to Scandinavia? After all it's not about breaking up a rival, it's about storytelling. Norway and Denmark secede from Scandinavia after an assassination, because storytelling. Explain how it's "fair" to collapse a brand new player and then have said new player compete against the strongest nations in the game. Let me guess, it's a coincidence that certain nations want to annex part of said new player. But don't worry this is "fair", they will have an equal chance to defend themselves...by algorithm...against the worlds superpowers. Yes, Tr0llis, "play the game" and stop being a little bitch. Clearly this is fair, just accept the loss of your nation, geez. After all you don't want to be the boy who cried out against moderator abuse while he still had a chance, woops I mean, the boy who cried bias. Harvenard2 (talk)

Here's what I think on this whole issue: On one hand, employing mod events to intentionally break up a nation, whether or not you want that nation's lands, is bad. However, on the other hand, these mod events add flavor and interest to PM3, and throwing challenges at a superpower does make the game more interesting.

From what I recall, Britain was to be warred upon by several of the great powers in order to install one of their own nobles/royals (French, Spanish, Dutch, German, whatever) on the throne. In my opinion, that's a perfectly legit way of doing things. Waging war, backed up by an algo, to achieve a goal. Now, adding mod events to destabilize a nation, such as delivering algo penalties, revolt risk, etc., is mighty unethical to me. With that said, I don't see anything necessarily bad about the Queen Amelia event, as no penalties are noted. It's just a standard event. The British King is dead, but really, Britain is still just as strong as it was in 1699 and as fit as ever to partake in a war. As it stands, Troll, no one is booting you out of Britain.

Now, do people want you out of Britain? Yes. To be honest, you have quite a reputation on this wiki, and one that is held up by constant arguments on chat and generally argumentive behaviour.

To close out what I'm trying to say: The 1700 British mod event may have whatever ulterior motives, but the fact remains that it does not technically harm Britain nor give Britain any algo penalties. If France and Spain warred on Britain today, Britain would have the same chance at winning as they did in 1699. I enjoy the mod event and I think it adds a nice narrative to the game. Just like Crim said, alternate history is about making a story, so please don't squander that opportunity.

This mod event isn't kicking you out of Britain, Trollis. A war will kick you out, one which has a great chance of occurring.

Cookiedamage (talk) 03:37, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

The 1700 event wasn't really the problem, it's the 1701 events and beyond (which weren't posted, but were described to me) which seemed to be a lot worse. Note they weren't posted, so my complaint here is a lot more diminished, and instead stands as a call to attention in regards to future events. I agree with you a lot here, that it isn't really fair to weaken a nation through moderator events who you plan to invade soon. You're right that I am not kicked out (yet), but what I was saying was that the next events in the series (which again were not posted after I made this discussion) and the fact that people were going to take advantage of them, made it quite clear that being kicked out was imminent. I'm not trying to squander the opportunity to make alternate history, or whatever the case is, but at the same time storytelling needs to be plausible and fair. I would like to bring up an important point here; Scandinavia was allowed to self write their own civil war in their turns, so I believe I should be allowed to the same, perhaps as a sort of compromise. It isn't fair that Scandinavia can avoid being collapsed by promising to "have an arc" (basically do storytelling), but I have to be forcefully collapsed. For one I know a bit more about the situation it seems, and can write a history similar to Crim. If what you say is true, and you are both just looking out for the storytelling, surely you'll agree to me taking up the responsibility to write more myself? If that was the case for one it would be a lot more developed and expansive. So with that said, I ask that if anything, I should be allowed to write in a roleplaying type civil war, not be collapsed half heartedly by my rivals. Tr0llis (talk) 03:56, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

After reading this wall of text I have the following to say: <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 13:08, November 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Nobody specifically wanted Tr0ll as Britannia, but only Andrew opposed it. Moreover, both Feud and I agreed to see how he plays.
 * 2) However, Tr0llis didn't play. Although these events have some implausibility because they ignore some facts (such as the names of the members of the royal dynasty) Tr0llis has posted for the first time on Wednesday/Thursday.
 * So, although Tr0ll has a point that he is being targetted and that those events are flawed, he didn't actually react to any mod events. Mod events exist to force a player to react to them in order to avoid damage to their nation or to benefit from them.
 * 1) As far as I see it, Tr0ll still has the chance to raise Britannia from the ashes.

If I'm not mistaken I've posted about five times, missing a few in between. Regardless, as I said above, my main problem was not the events already, but the shape of the events to come. The moderators have obviously decided to give me a chance, and for that I am very grateful. The events that are already there, I will react to them to the best of my ability. As long as the moderators are aware that I am playing as Britannia, and if anything allow me to pen my own civil war in my turns. Tr0llis (talk) 14:31, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

I have a simple question.. Why does this all start happening the moment Tr0llis joins in as Britannia? There were rarely any mod events that negatively affected Britannia prior to this, and not only is this bias but is also blatant meta gaming.

'I'm pretty sure the Britannia events predated your becoming Britannia. I don't necessarily agree with them, I just don't think they're a manifestation of bias, only of a general desire to cause some chaos in a nation, which is a mod's job.'

No, these events did not take place prior to Tr0llis joining in as Britannia. Moreover, if it is a mods job to cause chaos in nations, then why was not Britannia affected by such problems prior to Tr0llis joining? In fact, the only thing Andrew would get every century or so, would be a plague and the plague used to become irrelevant an year later.

'We decided that, in the interest of giving these people a shot at Britain (all of whom have a fair chance at winning), we'd spark a civil war that would basically spell how the 18th century would play out. '

I'm afraid it would be plain unfair to target a nation because others want to play as it. If we were to go by this, should not Sweden cede from your already implausible Scandivanian Union since Eric wants to play as Sweden? Perhaps, next a couple of Mscronies could gather and declare they want to play as Spain. Then would Spain get implausibly targeted?

From what I recall, Britain was to be warred upon by several of the great powers in order to install one of their own nobles/royals (French, Spanish, Dutch, German, whatever) on the throne.

But was there any such thing before Andrew went inactive and Tr0llis joined in? No, there was not. Like I said, there is clear meta gaming for Britannia is being targeted right after Tr0llis takes over. I mean it would make sense to attack if Tr0llis replaced the British Royal Family with another or perhaps, left Westminister, but Britannia is still the same Britannia and the only change is that of the player

Just like Crim said, alternate history is about making a story, so please don't squander that opportunity.

You know, if someone were to make a Timeline regarding all the stuff that happened in PMIII, the Timeline would get more ASB Tags than Eric's Wreck It Ralph Timeline.

'This mod event isn't kicking you out of Britain, Trollis. A war will kick you out, one which has a great chance of occurring. '

And why shall there be a war? Was Britannia being invaded prior to Tr0llis taking over? No. Then why now? Will you think of an implausible reason to kick out Tr0llis from Westminister? Will you meta game to attack Tr0llis?

Now then, let Trollis play in peace. Oh and Harv, you may be next. RexImperio (talk) 14:53, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

@Rimp: Also, another thing, dear RexImperio. I might be wrong, but I doubt it. Are you doing all of this because you have some personal quarrel with some of the mods (like Feud)? Because defending someone just to go against someone else isn't really something that benefits your reputation. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 15:33, November 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) They did predate Tr0ll joining, as they are in fact connected to Andr3w777 retiring, rather than him joining. There were already ideas on the mod page prior to Tr0ll signing up. However the events were actually written down after he joined. Nonetheless, they were planned prior to that.
 * 2) I'm really not sure who else planned to take Britannia, this isn't for me to discuss.
 * 3) Because nobody wanted to mess with Andrew, because, although he was inactive, he always counted on me informing him about Britannia. On the other hand, we have Tr0llis, who didn't prove himself as a successful player, atleast not as successful as Andy... yet.
 * 4) Doubtful.
 * 5) Multiple answers:
 * 6) Because there can be a war.
 * 7) No. (look at 3.)
 * 8) Because they can.
 * 9) Doubtful, Westminster is worthless now anyways.
 * 10) Doubtful, because everyone has different goals.

Am I really that bad of a player? I was conquered by my neighbor/friend as Lombardy, I played successfully as the Netherlands for like a century before giving it back to Nk. Where did I go wrong? (Except I know the answer; it's not about my in-game actions, it's about who I am personally.) Tr0llis (talk) 15:48, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry Tr0llis, but all I meant was that Andrew was a better player than you. I mean, the Netherlands didn't develop as fast as they did under Nk. You got involved in the Baltic region, while Nk would have probably continued focusing on his overseas territories etc. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 16:22, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

How did I get involved in the Baltic Region at all? I had a single war with Scandinavia which was over his colonies, although it ended in white peace. No territory was gained in the Baltics, meanwhile Spain outright invaded and toppled Livonia and France now owns part of it. I was pretty much the major power who was least involved in the Baltics. As for developing, when I was the Netherlands I was one of the most invested in technology and science. When I was the Netherlands half of the game's inventions were by me, and I was the top in research, along with people like Pskov and Austria. So far Nk doesn't appear to be doing that. As for expanding, under me the Netherlands gained like five colonies, a whole protectorate, numerous vassals and allies in Asia, something NK was unable to do. All while expanding the South America colony just as much as Nk did (the map hasn't been updated there in like a century, mind you). I successfully defended the Netherlands when people like Sine trollishly threatened to invade me (basically what they're doing now to Britannia), among a sea of people hated me. Don't for a moment say I didn't do anything, that's completely false. Maybe I didn't conquer half of Europe, but that's obviously not what NK wanted, he just wanted someone to keep the Netherlands together until he could return. I'm sorry if that makes me a horrible player, but I was just trying to do what was right. Tr0llis (talk) 16:33, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

If all what you said is true, then I was wrong and excuse myself. You're then a good player who is underestimated because of his reputation and personal relations towards other users, which is rather unfair. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 16:37, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Aaaaaand the shitstorm is here. TBH, I think the best solution to this would be to have a mod with a non-European nation who could kinda manage events in Europe, free from accusations of bias. It would prevent this sort of thing recurring. Shikata ga nai! 17:32, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

There wasn't really a shitstorm, in fact this matter was pretty much settled. Now that you've commented and opened up a can of worms on moderators however I see this matter will not simmer down soon. Tr0llis (talk) 17:35, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah I got to agree, if you think Britania isn't doing good and you have plans for it; then carry out those plans in-game! Have a war of succession or something. Not start using mod events to get your own way if Trollis doesn't want these things to happen like you want them to happen. You can't just force him out if he hasn't been playing very good (something which is very subjective anyway). Also I agree with Krasnoyarsk above about reducing the bias, doing something like mod events to remove kings is very naughty if the mod has a conflict of interest..... <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:51, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Von, and I think I will be having some sort of succession war anyway. I have an updated family tree on my page, and hopefully there isn't any interference or made up people now that it's publicly displayed who is in my royal family. Thanks, Tr0llis (talk) 17:56, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

For the record all I own in the Baltic, is the city of Danzig, which is quite easy unless I was blockaded  by Scandinavia, it would be harder for me to have a city state in Vietnam or India than Danzig. Also I haven't read the events in 1701 :v Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 18:22, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

This really shouldn't be an issue. Yes, this is about storytelling. Harv, the same thing has happened to Scandinavia in the 1600s. The exact same thing, actually. Maybe if you weren't busy trying to make it difficult for actual progress to be made in anything ever, you'd have noticed the massive civil war I had that lasted over a decade. We wouldn't have done this if Tr0llis was the only one interested. But several others were interested. So, instead of turning players down that deserved the position, we decided to make it interesting. The starting conditions will be fair for all British nations. These events have been tailored by almost every active mod we have and several other trusted players to prevent bias, though we figured you would wail like a toddler when you didn't get exactly what you wanted, Tr0llis. Crim de la Crème 19:14, November 29, 2014 (UTC) I opened up a can of worms? Really? The hypocrisy. As I said above, there's not really any bias here. After all Britannia technically doesn't receive any penalties from the events, and there's no proposal for a civil war to kick Trollis out of Brittannia, only a civil war after he's been kicked out by a perfectly legitimate in-game war. This whole thing has been blown hugely out of proportion by the constant accusations of bias. That said, I feel that playing the "bias" card would be more difficult in the future if this type of mod events were done by a mod who wasn't immediately involved in European politics. Shikata ga nai! 19:27, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

I meant opened a can of worms by stating your opinion on moderator ethnics in a thread which at the time was kind of wrapping up. Truth be told I only said that because I really hate it when people (mostly Sat) are like "lel oh look another shitstorm". Anyway, as I said many times above, the problem was the future events which weren't posted yet. "Britannia technically doesn't receive any penalties from the events" because they weren't posted. Moderators told me about them, and because of this thread they are no longer being used. Also your thing about the order of actions is completely wrong, given that the 1701 event, again it was not posted (but would have only like a hour later), specifically made states of my nation secede. This isn't after a war with me, it's to cause one. How come when there was going to be negative events for Crim, he got a pass because he elected to write them himself, but I can't do the same? I didn't even get a chance, next thing you know, negative moderator events occur, while some users (ie the mods) are apparently able to opt out of bad events by offering to add them to their turns. Crim keeps saying the events aren't bias because "all the moderators had input on them", which prompted me to look into the matter. At this point and time half the moderators actually agree with me, and the other half (the half that is bias against me/my rivals) still upholds that they are fair and were written by both sides. Furthermore I asked some of these moderators and they confirmed that they were not written by all the mods, some have specifically told me that they had no part in them. So which is? Even if it was true that everyone pitched in on them, at this point half recant that statement, and it is clearly not non-partisan. Tr0llis (talk) 19:43, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Even though Tr0ll does have a point, I kind of want to play as ÉIRE REBORN and truth be told, the "first come first serve" system when signing up is kind of unfair (see, Lx Russia debate before the map game). Between that and the fact that this map game is supposed to tell an interesting story, I think Britannia should be broken up, to a certain extent. —Bfoxius (talk)

What did Britannia do to be broken up? You want it to be broken up so that you can have part of it. The Russian thing doesn't really apply here since Lx signed for "something in Russia" and the only conflict came when someone signed up as Moscow and everyone assumed Lx had met Moscow. From what I can tell though Lx has had a fine time as Pskov. As for Ireland why can't you ply as Ireland within Britannia? Furthermore I don't even know if Ireland was going to be something that became independent, after all the mods were under the impression that you wanted Britannia as a whole. Tr0llis (talk) 20:38, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Westphalia
I was told by Sky to make this discussion here, to get a certain matter sorted out for good. I believe that over the past forty years there have been unfair and illogical moderator events targeting Westphalia, and because of the discrepancies in the events no one has been really sure what is going on in this region.

I signed up as Westphalia in 1661, after Austria had been destroyed. During this time Sine briefly instigated me on chat by hinting toward a future event to "take care of that [Westphalia]" and this was followed by an event in 1662, which collapsed my brand new nation right off the bat. Beyond that it also did or led to a lot of things that don't make sense, and has caused a great amount of confusion.


 * Every time I try to ask people about this they bring up something along the lines of "why would they join under a Habsburg/they hate the Habsburgs/they will never be ruled by a Habsburg". This is misleading however because I never once mentioned the word "Habsburg" in any of my posts. People tend to assume that my nation was ruled by a Catholic Habsburg, even though neither of those things were ever specified. The idea that they would never be ruled by a Habsburg brings me to the second point.
 * Even if I was specifically Habsburg, many of these states would be perfectly fine with that. Let's remember that all these states were de jure ruled by a Habsburg for centuries, but more importantly, the majority were actually pro-Austrian/Habsburg, anti-Hessian, or even previously ruled by Austria.
 * Let's summarize the states that revolted away because they hate Habsburgs/Austria:
 * Territories that Austria has ruled literally since the first few decades of the game. Small states that have been a part of Austria for over two centuries in some cases. I see no reason why these states would suddenly hate Austria/Habsburgs.
 * Strong allies of the Habsburgs who were heavily against Hesse. States like Trier, who is actually famous for his Austrian allegiance, and was a strong enemy of Hesse. For some reason, even though these states are pro-Austrian/Habsburg, and heavily against Hesse, they rebel in favor of Hesse.
 * NPC states which rebelled/fought against Hesse multiple times. States like Munster who had a series of wars to avoid Hesse, yet for some reason rebel in favor of them.
 * All these states were recently conquered by Hesse from Austria/Austria's allies/NPC's, and had recently been liberated by Austria. Why are they rebelling in favor of Hesse when they were just returned to their rightful owners, or at the very least removed from their enemy? This is like if France was liberated by the Allies in WW2 and then revolted to join Nazi Germany.
 * Hesse revolting against the above mentioned states I could understand, but for some reason all of the people against Hesse are joining them.
 * Despite the fact that at the same time Bavaria had doubled its size, conquering a dozen nations, and coming out with only really one revolt, and the fact that Spain also just conquered a giant area, the moderators decided to revolt almost all of Westphalia away on turn one. I can understand the argument that Feud and Cookie said, where the new states wouldn't revolt right away because they were just devastated, but how come that argument doesn't apply to me? Westphalia was just devastated by war, and for the first time in centuries, with maybe an exception being part of Hesse Proper, the region is actually not being occupied.
 * Worse of all this event declares that part of Hamburg Proper, part of Hamburg for pretty much most of the last 200 years, revolts as well. Hamburg just won another algorithm to liberate part of Hamburg Proper and for some reason it revolts to join their own enemies. That's like if there was a revolt in Pskov that caused Croatia to lose part of Poland. When Sine was asked about this he said the losses from Hamburg were "collateral damage".
 * These parts of Hesse were conquered fair and square through algorithms, yet they are taken away one turn in. The moderators made events to take away land from Hamburg proper and from me that was fairly conquered for the sole purpose of creating a nation for someone to play as. What if Blocky really wanted to be the Basque, so during a moment of Spanish weakness the moderators declared Spain erupts into new nation confetti, and the Basque part of France too for some reason, just to make that new nation for Blocky in the Basque region? I'm sure a lot of people would like their nations back, the people you conquered, but are we just going to start releasing Lombardy or Italy? Why do you make an exception here?
 * People complain that a Catholic ruler/nation shouldn't be able to rule over a Ludwigist state. First of all that is again assuming my leader is Catholic, despite the fact that I made no mention of that (there are Habsburgs of many different religions). Secondly, Ludwigism isn't even a majority religion everywhere in Westphalia. Some of the states in Westphalia are even ruled by archbishops and are heavily Catholic. In some areas they are Dutch Reformist. Where did I get that from? The fact that when Tr0llis was the Netherlands he wrote for dozens of turns straight that Dutch Reformists move into Westphalia, and the fact that Blocky himself wrote on the page for Ludwigism that some of his former states are now Catholic, and Westphalia as a whole has even converted away from Ludwigism. Now let's consider the fact that Austria, and the Habsburgs, was the most tolerant nation of Dutch Reformist other than the Netherlands, and repeatedly had royal marriages with Dutch Reformists. Even if my ruler was Catholic and a Habsburg, that would meant they are being ruled by the most ideal of Catholics, as the Habsburgs were repeatedly supporters of Dutch Reformists.
 * Again, consider the fact that before I re-conquered these states, they had a series of wars against Hesse, and that Austria and Hamburg were their main supporters. Why are they revolting against the people who repeatedly looked out for their interests, in favor of the people they had numerous wars with?
 * The fact that most of Westphalia revolts and for some reason leaves Frankfurt and Nassau as a sort of enclave inside it. If your actual intention was to overthrow the Habsburgs, who you claim these people hate (even though they largely don't), then you would have said there was a civil war in which the Habsburgs are overthrown, or would have forced me to have a civil war in my posts. In no logical universe does it make sense for every state of the union except the capital to secede and then leave the capital just sitting there. If they are angry because of one single guy in the capital, they'd obviously just deal with that one guy.
 * Despite that fact that Westphalia is in personal union with/being supported by both the Netherlands and Hamburg, who are both responsible for continuing support for Westphalia's colonies, the moderators decided to uncolor certain colonies. When I asked Sine about this he said that he "didn't make the event". I replied "There was no event! Someone just edited the map one day and removed them all. Can you please fix this map error?" Despite the fact that they were supposed to still be colored, someone decided to just leave them uncolored so that people could take them. To the best of Sine's knowledge, the person who started all this, they were never taken away, and it's not like the Netherlands and Hamburg are unable to together hold up the colonies, so that should be fixed.
 * The moderators make all the rebelling states count as independent states, despite being in a confederacy like Switzerland, solely so that I cannot combat them in any form.
 * Every time I bring this up people delete it off the talk page. No one replies to my posts or answers any of my questions, they just occasionally cross them out.
 * I am beginning to believe that the moderators don't care in the slightest, and would rather the truth behind this event be ignored. I can never have a serious conversation about this without being insulted, or presented with made up facts.

In conclusion, I don't believe it is fair to collapse a nation one turn in, in a bias and illogical manner, so that revolting states secede in a gerrymandering pattern, against people they historically were a part of or in favor of, to join their most hated enemy. I don't think it's fair to get revenge on someone through moderator events, and/or give away free pieces of a nation, and neighboring nations for some reason, to a different player you favor more. I don't think it's fair to suddenly unite states which were previously owned by Habsburgs, Catholics, pro-Austrians, allies, etc against someone who is presumably those things, even though such conclusions aren't even grounded in evidence, and in either accord would not account for such a massive ideological shift. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 23:28, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the points of mods giving land to blocky being rather ridiculous, and one i wasn't in favor off. but the else is staying and most of the colonies would have had collapse due to hardly being the top priority. I mean for hamburg they american one would. but Africa would've died anyway. Else is staying, the revolt was essentially every duke trying to seize power and fucking up. only become the westphalian confed in order to avoid outside threats from invading. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 00:09, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Sine you apparently wrote the event, how are can you say you dislike part of it? I literally saw you paste it on the moderator page, I literally saw you state parts in chat as you wrote it. There are direct quotes in my paragraph above that you said on the matter. Why would the colony collapse if the Netherlands are for one supporting them, the Netherlands are right next to them. In fact Hamburg even used my colonies as trade posts/stations on occasion. It's not like they just stop going to my colonies and everyone there loses the ability to eat food and dies. Furthermore the main areas that were uncolored were in the Americas, and you just said the Americas would probably survive. Not to mention they were uncolored (by Crim?, not sure) and then immediately other people began to prepare for taking them. You even said at the time on this very talk page that you had no preference on the matter, you didn't even know who did it. They were just never fixed, but they should have. No one fixed it because my messages were ignored/deleted. Why did these states revolt in such a manner? They already had that power, they were in the Holy Roman Empire for one, and secondly I never annexed any of them. Some of them were even Habsburgs, and you mean to tell me the Habsburgs revolt from the Habsburgs because they hate the Habsburgs? They didn't make a confederation to stop foreign invasion, they did it to stop me, from taking it back, and for some reason they are all counted separately even though other confederations are not. Mscoree (talk) 00:36, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

I am afraid Ms, but little can be done to ever convince a moderator. You'd have to deal with it before Westphalia is forced to further fracture and fall into disarray. RexImperio (talk) 07:07, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

I mean you just saw it yourself


 * 1) Sine admits that the event was unfair to you
 * 2) Sine admits he made this event regardless of how implausible it was
 * 3) Sine is willing to disclose it on the Talk Page that he made an unfair implausible event, knowing that it was unfair and implausible and 'nothing can be done' now

Oh well. Not that anything can be done considering most of the moderators are in this giant alliance that stretches throughout the world and they'd definitely put their own interests ahead of those of others. RexImperio (talk) 07:44, November 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * 1) Andr3w777 (Westminister)
 * 2) Collie Kaltenbrunner (Alive Due To Westminister Generosity)
 * 3) CourageousLife (Closely Tied To Spain and Now Annexed By Spain)
 * 4) CrimsonAssassin (Closely Tied With Westminister)
 * 5) EiplecOco (Closely Tied With Spain)
 * 6) Feudalplague (Westminister)
 * 7) Monster Pumpkin (Possibly The Only One Not Completely Inside The Spanish Sphere)
 * 8) Saamwiil (Closely Tied With Spain)
 * 9) Sine dei gloriem (Westminister)
 * 10) SkyGreen24 (Closely Tied With Spain)

RexImperio (talk) 08:18, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Mscoree, I'm not going to get into this, but I have to say something about the colonies. If I recall correctly, the Austrians already got events that caused them to halt colonization, which is probably also one of the reasons why they're disorganized. But then again, I think Feud was the one who handled your overseas territories, so maybe that's something you should talk about with him.

As for you RexImperio, your little let's-kill-spain and down-with-the-mods attitude is getting extremely annoying. If you're going to plot against us, atleast do it behind our backs like everyone else.

So yeah, we're not just here because we're plotting against non-mods. Also, me, Saam and Eip hadn't even been mods for too long. <font color="#1C4081">Sky <font color="#00FF21">Green <font color="531F72">24 (<font color="A00000">P, Q ) 08:42, November 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Andr3w777 (Major power + Successful player)
 * 2) Collie Kaltenbrunner (Feud's generosity + Nation with great potential)
 * 3) CourageousLife (He got annexed, but IIRC Feud's rule was, if you were there before me you can stay or something)
 * 4) CrimsonAssassin (Successful player who had to deal with A LOT of enemies such as Russia, Prussia, Netherlands and Austria)
 * 5) EiplecOco (Extremely populous nation + Excellent player)
 * 6) Feudalplague (Major power + Scraw's inactivity + Successful player)
 * 7) Monster Pumpkin (Chris' inactivity + Crusades against Ottomans)
 * 8) Saamwiil (One of the few who plays tribal nations correctly)
 * 9) Sine dei gloriem (Major power + Successful player)
 * 10) SkyGreen24 (Making use of the Anti-Ms coalition(s) + Heavily informed about Croatia and adjacent regions + Experienced player)

Well, first of all; I am not against Spain or the Mods but I am against destroying the nations of other players for no reason and I am against the Moderator alliance that extends throughout the world

Moreover, your 'successful player' thing makes no sense. It's the same thing. The Mods have grouped together in a giant alliance. It's a unipolar world. You either ally with them or they kill you.

Otl, France/Britain/Spain never formed a large alliance because their individual interests would clash. But it appears there's no such thing in PMIII.

Who else remembers when France/Spain/Britain pre made a map of the divisions of Americas and never had any colonial war against one another? Atleast I don't RexImperio (talk) 09:46, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

I'll have you know I completely halted the expansion of my colonies for over half a century. The only thing I am asking is that they are at least shown on the map (preferably before some of the moderator nations, coincidentally, take them all). In regards to what Sky and Rimp are saying, it seems to me like the measure of whether or not someone is a successful player is based on their loyalty/ability to be in this alliance. For example at first glance Sky said that Tr0llis was an unsuccessful player, but then when Tr0llis listed all his accomplishments it made Sky think twice. Is this alliance you speak of coincidentally all "successful players", or has it played some part in shaping their success? Regardless, let's stick to the matter at hand; Westphalia. Mscoree (talk) 13:29, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Ending PM3
http://strawpoll.me/3095856 that is all. Blocky858 (talk) 14:46, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

4 people wanting the game to end isn't a consensus when there are 20+ people who play the game. Also it's not your decision to end The game. If you no longer wish to play than by all means don't post but the vast lack of what the mods do in attempting to keep order and keep the game running in a lot of cases goes totally unappreciated and you guys seems to rail against the more more in particular cause you don't get what you want rather than it being a real true issue of targeting and bias. But seriously if you are unhappy with the game then by all means don't post, but if you would refrain from posting slander here on the onion page we would all much appreciate it. THE GAME IS NOT OVER COTINUE POSTING

You can always go and start your own game. If this is how you feel then go and do it. Don't make it out as you are the only opinion and speak for the mods. What you did is a bannable offense by impersonating a mod and vandalising the page. Mods please ban them. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:16, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Who impersonated a moderator? Mscoree (talk) 18:22, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

^^^ Where's any impersonation? And yeah, I mean, PM3, imo, is in a bad state, but I'm staying till the end, whether it be today or when we reach turn 2015. However, shutting down the game will do more harm than good, and if you don't feel like you want to keep playing, then you may resign, but flat out ending the game is not a good option. Cookiedamage (talk) 18:25, November 30, 2014 (UTC)