Talk:Principia Moderni II (Map Game)

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Algorithm Format
This is to make things easy for everyone since I find myself doing a heap of algorythms and its a pain in the ass to flip back and forth with the rules.

Nation X
Total:
 * Location:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Strength:
 * Military Development:
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion:
 * Motive:
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age:
 * Population:
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars:
 * Recent Wars:

Maps
Maps will be updated every 5 years.

Map Issues
''' Please address any map issues here. They will be wiped at the start of each turn the map is updated. '''

Why....why does every single map make russia wrong. WHY!!!! Novorossiya is not how I envision it. It is not how it was originaly. I post corrections maps, trying to tell you how I want my colonies, but you just scrap that because yuou do not like it. Also, why are  the easern rebel states with no capitals not annexed? I annexed them after a war. fair and square, they are mine, I should like to believe that they are mine, and solely mine. Why do you ignore what I post in terms of maps, and go out of your way to ignore my maps, but include the correctiosn of everyone else that posts after me with my map as a base. '''I WANT SOME ANSWERS. WHY DO YOU IGNORE RUSSIA AND MY CORRECTIONS EVERY SINGLE BLOODY MAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-Lx''' (leave me a message) 22:15, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

^ TRUE STORY.

Also, I haven't seen my colonies expanding as of late.

22:19, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Not just yours, he ignores everyone's expansions but his own. Every single map, the expansion of all my colonies/the status of my viceroyalties are reverted. It's really frustrating and happens every map.AP (talk) 22:20, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

This too. Not to mention that he avoids all directions (such X expands northeast by Xkm, and south by Ykm) while he intricately expands his colonies along rivers not present on the map and the such.

22:32, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay: responses for now, because it's getting late:

Lx: again, you annexed most of them, but to truly annex all of them in separate wars, you would declare war in a thirty-year space, not forty, as you actually did.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, April 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * ^ Right...after I got 45% in the war, and went to war for 2 years, got the coupling result with the 25 as more than 33.33%, and then, a week later you come to me and you say, LOL NOPE!!!! I'm sorry, you told me that something i did was null and void A FULL WEEK after I had the chance to change anything. Nothing in the Algorithm discussion, nothing in-game, nada, zilch. Those staes 1. have no capitals 2. should not ahve existed in the first place, but it was too late to change anything. I called bullshit, but nobody listened. So here we go again. I annexed those sons of bitches, and a week later, quite frankly, is too late to do anything about it. They are mine, witchever way you put it.-Lx (leave me a message) 22:54, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because i didn't know that the limit was 30 years until after you declared war.And asn't your second wars's result 25%?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:05, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

AP: About your possesions on Aymará territory not being spanning all the country yet, well, if the Aymará had so few chieftains as of your posts make it look, then i would have divided them into countries already.Anyway, given that fact that your territory must have increased eightfold in 5 years, i would give you two or three years more to take it all over.An keep in mind the Inca issue is still on discussion.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Scraw: Just because those rivers aren't present on the map, this doesn't mean they aren't there.And, i compose my posts in ten minutes, based off the map, do you think i have time to think on which cardinal point i am going to expand?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:45, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

That still doesn't explain why you revert the expansion of New Georgia(which by the way steadily expanded by 1500 sqkm for DECADES) every turn. This applies to most other of my colonies. When I change it, it doesn't get carried over to the next map.AP (talk) 01:52, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice your expansion.I didn't add it to the map because of that, and also because of the standard problem: i also forget to check the other maps.But it will be on the next map.And i see your version of Eriksmark seems about 300 pixels larger than in my map, and i do not remeber of having missed that quantity.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:05, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

And to Imp, who also corrected the map: Carnatic isn't on your color because you and Scraw don't stop fighting over it (see Scraw's edit, where Carnatic is part of mysore).So, as long as you don't decide, it isn's his nor yours on the map.And the Kashmir part was something i didn't know.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 09:31, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes but Mysore it not big enough to vassalise Carnatic. I'll ask Von to do a pixel count to confirm this. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:24, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's not about vassalage no more.he claims to have plain annexed Carnatic, which, obviously, is against the rules, since there was no war.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:53, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, AP said I needed to vassalize it, so I did that and then annexed it after forced tributarization.
 * 23:32, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Carnatic should legally be Scraw's since he influenced it for a very long time. Imp jumped on it when problems out-of-game about it arose, which is borderline metagaming. So that deserves some repercussions.AP (talk) 04:17, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Jes, fankchoo. 04:21, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Collie, I'll tell you the info which would mean Scraw would never get Carnatic. Carnatic is 1600px, while Mysore is 2300px - more than half. Check my talkpage for Von's message, who I got it confirmed from. Irregardless that Scraw has been trying to vassalise it, it would be against the rules to do so. Nothing Scraw or AP say can mean otherwise. The only way you could have got Carnatic was by going to war with it. And what bloody out-of-game problems? [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:32, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Says the guy who managed to vassalize several nations more than half his original size...Also Germany is bigger than 3200sqkm. By a lot. 21:11, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Um, not really. Bihar is in a personal union, so is Mataram. Yes, Germany is, not Mysore (its px btw, lol). If you had vassalised it using Germany, then I would not complain (much) - if it would be allowed. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:02, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * You've vassalized/conquered too much using Bihar and Mataram. You only keep them in personal union so their wars won't affect your main nation when in reality they are part of your nation since you claim them to be in personal union.AP (talk) 02:02, April 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not really. Bihar was in a personal union from the start of the, well, ersonal union. Mataram was a vassal which recently entered a personal union. And Orissa as a nation has not vassalised much, and I spent enough turns on Carnatic, so its all good. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:41, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yugoslavia and Croatia need a fix. Scandinator (talk) 15:20, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but notice how Yugoslavia is about the same size of Venice itself, which violates the rules about a diplomatically vassalized nation not having more then half the main nation's territory.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:53, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Those little Kappelist states I annexed oh-so-long ago are fully part of Germany. Those lines need to be erased.
 * France (Prior called burgundy) claims its antilian colonies
 * Genoa: Our three colonies (Africa, East Cuba, East Hispaniola) are offered to Burgundy for money and weapons. The navy is improved.
 * Burgundy: We accept your outstanding offer and we will pay the needed to gain this colonies.
 * I want my east Cuba, Africa and east Hispaniola back, please.
 * It's simple. i didn't notice this part back then.And then Venice was Genoa ceased to exist, so the colonies did too.I can't reverse this now.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:08, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * also collie add my last five years expansion up too 1660 please, because having to fix your colonies it only brings issues in the map games, that either end it or make it difficult to play
 * You want me to add 5 years of expansion when you just expanded your colonies for three years?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:08, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * nope i meant the years previous to 1660 and the three or four years until 1665 and can't i atleast have a patch of land on hispaniola, and africa, after all these are still not taken by other nations yet Sine dei gloriem (talk) 02:00, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

21:11, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

India and Brandenburg
Okay someone has removed my enclave just north of the Netherlands, I bought that land to help me colonize. Where is it?Andr3w777 (talk) 16:10, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

the Netherlands had no player, you couldn't buy it from them.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:04, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well I did have them puppetised, before it was said it was implausible (cmon, the Scandinavians are in Bengal 100 years before the Brits!!). Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:35, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

You have to realize how ridiculous it is for an Indian kingdom ,who by the way has not unified the area yet, to puppetise a major trading power like the Netherlands. Seriously.AP (talk) 05:51, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And you need to see how bad it is you guys have puppetised kingdoms 100 years before the British and you have less people than them. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, you're still a backwards far off country. You have to realize that power does not work vice versa. You pale in the shadow of great European powers like Venice, Scandinavia, and Germany, who have Rambo navies and clone populations. Orissa, on the other hand, is still subject to religious conflict, internal strife, and other problems, while the Netherlands has no problems whatsoever and could not be physically dominated by any country at this time. Even if Germany tried to subjugate the Netherlands, it would be implausible because they are nearly on par.

21:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yipee! Time to shatter some arguments.

And yet each of those nations would lose to me. Why, becuase my leaders are the best in the world. I too have a navy which only China might be able to rival, and an army which I don't even want to get into. Fine, I have religious conflict, but so do all the European powers (yeah, the Germanic Church counts, so does the Italian one). Internal stife? Are you trying to make me laugh? And what other problems? If my citizens have problems, they pay and move to the colonies, new Orissan territories, the puppet, or the vassals. I have brilliant literacy rates (for the era), a large growing merchant class (bigger than Venice for the obvious reasons) and a great navy.

I am not a power to be taken lightly. Especially not with my gaining superiority on the subcontinent. Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:43, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Subcontinent ≠ the world. 00:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Of course. However, superiority on da subcontinent = greater pool of resources to fund trading and navies. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:09, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The problem is he thinks he's more important than he really is. He can claim to be all he can but the only thing that backs up what he says is the population bonus. Even then they're still inequipped. Most of his population lives in rural poverty and that can't be feasibly changed by any government of the era. So you want all of us to believe that everything about your country is amazingly good? This Indian wonderland is a just a dream. AP (talk) 00:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I never said everthing is amazing. I still have poverty, yes. However, we are in no way inequipped. Poverty = cheap labour. All our armies have stuff which can easily rival the Europeans. However, there is a growing class of merchants which began to form over 70 years ago under my first Raja. Their number has only grown. My military has been worked on, and they have more experience than many European armies. I have traded heavily with European powers, spreading back ideas to Orissa. Now I might say that the puppetisation would have been implausible for the era, but you should not be allowed to puppetise the Bengalis. Seriously? 100yrs before the Birts?!! I am actually tempted to throw it out into the open and ask other players if they think it is plausible at all. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:06, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

We are the ATL equivalents of the Brits. 19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit. You haven't even united Germany yet. Plus Britiain only got to India in the 18th century. Do you even know about the Battle of Plassey (1757)? And why have you got Carniac as a part of your nation? One, it is more than half the size of your puppet - you cannot vassalise it. Two, it was under my sphere of influence - you agreed to it. Three, you are just proving my point. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:10, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

When you get right down to it, you can see that I haven't united Germany because of player nations which makes algorithms execessively harder. And Germany is a different case to Britain. England just trampled some crazy Celts, while I have to deal with shitloads of diverse Germans. In other news, everyone knows that other nations like Portugal and whatnot got to India before India. I am merely comparing ourselves to Britain in terms of power. Also Carniac is much weaker than Mysore and was never under Orrisan influence. And who the damn hell cares when and what the Brits did?

For Bavarias and andrews advantage, before i lost the netherlands, i sold him a enclave, which you didn't realized, but that did existed, you can search it between 1575 and 1580, so he should have the enclave Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:27, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

21:59, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

India vs Germany algorithm
00:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Germany
 * Location: +2
 * Tactical Advantage: +5
 * Strength: Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Bone (MV), Luxembourg (M), Spain (MV) = 1.08 ~ 1.1 ~ 1
 * Military Development: +20 - +30 (given the time)
 * Economy:
 * Infrastructure:
 * Expansion: -1 (or -0 given the time)
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: X
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +5
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6 (-0 at given times)
 * Total: 47 to 65 + chance = following statement
 * 48 > Total < 74
 * Orrisa
 * Location: +4 (regular German invasion probably from Mysore)
 * Tactical Advantage: +0
 * Strength: Orrisa + four vassals = 12 ~ 0
 * Military Development: +20 to +30 (given time)
 * Economy: +0
 * Infrastructure: +0
 * Expansion: -8
 * Motive: +5
 * Chance: X
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8 (-0 at given times)
 * 35 > Total < 45
 * Germany runs an ordinary run-of-the-mill conquest.
 * 35 > Total < 45
 * Germany runs an ordinary run-of-the-mill conquest.

Haha. There's a reason why I picked India. My population is 8 digits. Look at the algo now. I'm still gonna get land off you. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Hey genius, this is still ATL. 60% of India was ravaged by the Caliphate and shitloads of other people were raped to the point of infertility.

And yet you forget that happened 2-3 generations ago. Fertility levels would be normal. Most of the area I own was part of Bengal, and they would have had respect for the local population. My population would not be anywhere near the point of the Europeans, it would be much greater. There is no chance my population is in the 7. This is India we are talking about, where people still have 10 kids in states like Bihar. And you forget all that raping would only increase my population. And all of them are hindu cause I converted. You really did dig a hole for yourself with that point. They had no contraception in the era, kids would continue to be born. And what about you? You nations were in a state of continous warfare with the Capilate, having ravaged your lands. I will make a proper algorithim and show you how much Orissa would win by. And just because you are European does not mean you are great. For 20 odd years, all thats happened is that your colonies have expanded - thats it. Imp (Say Hi?!) 18:45, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Look, you need to fit one thing into your head: Not everyone want to be Hindu, and not everyone is Hindu, and those little Muslim ghettos you run sure aren't helping the population.

Also I was invaded by the Caliphate at the same time it collapsed, and I was re-created as a much larger successor state. Also expanding colonies = more people.

And you population is in the 7 digits - at least 7 to 8 million, because only your main nation counts as part of the population bonus, not your little vassals states and stuff.

19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

My main nation is huge. The Orissan Rajputs were incorporated into it in 1648 (collie forgot about it, he siad he didn't realise that happened), the Godavarians were incorporated this year (1654) and Bijapur has been a part of my nation (its a part of Orissa, not a seperate entity as many people are fond of thinking it is) for over 30 years now. It will still have atleast 4-5 the amount of people than in Brandenburg. What will they do when they get forced. If the capilate tried making us muslim, the Orissans are making everyone hindu. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Orissa vs Brandenburg
Orissa: Total: 62 + chance (max 71)
 * Location: 5 (you invaded me)
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Orissa (L), Mataram (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M)): 14/13 = 1.1 = 1
 * Military Development: 22/30 = 0
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrastructure: 8
 * Expansion: -8 (0)
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: x
 * Nation age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent wars: -8 (0)

Brandenburg: Total: 32 + chance (Max 41)
 * Location: 1
 * Tactical Avantage: 5
 * Strength: (Germany (L), Mysore (MV), Bone (MV), Luxembourg (M), Spain (MV)): 13/14 = 0.9 = 0
 * Military Development: 30/22 = 1.36 = 1
 * Economy: 0
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: -2 (0)
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: x
 * Nation age: 5
 * Population: 7
 * Particiaption: 10
 * Recent wars: -6 (0)

Result: Reuslts speak for themselves.

~ Imp

All this shows is that you are skilled in twisting the results to your favor.

19:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

No, well maybe. Yet I am adding on bits you have missed out and lets be serious here. A defending army will use every advantage they get. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't get any of my colonies, bar Nea Larnaka, expanded, and I didn't get my small portion of Cyrenaica. And then Lx came along and changed his colony and then didn't expand mine. 49.176.34.37 21:49, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Both of you are seriously over-estimating how powerful your nations are. Your also making economly stupid moves by going for places with little profit to be made. I will be correcting this situation soon. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:37, March 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Like where? I have taken Java - very economically viable. All my puppets and colonies are in good spots to grows crops at... [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:45, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Labelled Map


So I was bored and updated the labelled map. BTW this is as of 1630.AP (talk) 01:10, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

How do you put the subtitles on it? so i could make my own maps later.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:16, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There are some mistakes on that map in terms of territories, e.g. Comchellak is much larger and Arabia own all of the Tanzanian spice islands. But other than that it is good. Also Comchellak is a vassal of the Arabian federation and its full name is the Republic of Comchellak. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:46, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Its a great map. Just Bijapur is part of Orissa proper so it would be Orissa to. But great map. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:53, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

For Japan, there's a misspelling. It should be Mononobe, not Monobe. -Kogasa   2013年3月09日 23:06:13 (JST)

Thanks so much. It looks awesome! CourageousLife (talk) 16:28, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

I just fixed all of the things you guys pointed out.AP (talk) 22:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Religion Map


Since Callumthered had asked me what was the situation of Catholicism on Europe, i went to do a coloured map of this.it got big, so now this became a incomplete world map.dark blue represents Kappelists, blue represents breakaway churches, light blue represents Catholicism, light green represents Nestorianism, green represents Islam, and yellow-brownish represents orthodoxy.it is still incomplete.Obviously, this is political too, as some nations will have some state religion, but the population will follow other one.Anyway, i don't know the Arabian Federation's state religion, to start with.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:48, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Arabian federation doesn't have a state religion, its dominantly Islamic though. Many branches of Islam though, but I'd say Sunni or Ibadi Islam to be dominant. VonGlusenburg  (talk to Von!) 11:51, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

There would be a lot more ortododox wrong...-Lx (leave me a message) 19:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:36, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Well, Russia is very wrong on that map. just look at the russia I made, and then you will see the real face of orthodoxy. you did your annexations horibly wrong. you made moscow a seperate state, and now Minsk is not longer in personal union. You should realy use my map, because at this point I think you just want an excuse to piss me off so you can purposefuly get me banned.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:07, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">The latter is not the case.in fact, i sometimes think that Scraw is being implausible just to have something to complain about, so he can get me to quit.We might be able to work this out, when it comes to Minsk.are you a hereditary monarchy?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 08:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Russia has an old novgorodian style Elective Monarchy. The Tsar was a firm believer in Russian unification, and once he gianed the title of Tsar of Minsk through marriage, since he wanted at the least unified russian realm under one Ruler, and he did not want his efforts to be in vain when he died in case his son did not become the next Tsar(elective monarchy) so he had the two Crowns linked, although he kept the title of duke of minsk to his own family, the title of Tsar of Minsk and Tsar of Novgorod and Russia were linked. I find it is good logic, but If that's too complicated you can consider it like an act of union/annexatoin and ignore the part about a seperate Duma being built in Minsk.-Lx (leave me a message) 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Yes, this sounds like a good logic.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:27, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Just saying, but shouldn't Bijaur be hindu? Considering I have expanded my influence there and introduced anti-muslim laws and the Trimurts have been converting people like crazy? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 07:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

<p style="font-size:13px;">Update time? Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:38, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion (Continued)
You can't mass produce coal... There is no process to coal other than dig out of ground and then burn... Scandinator (talk) 00:38, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fine.......be like that......

00:45, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'll continue my petition, see Industrialization in Archive 8 CourageousLife (talk) 01:52, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. I didn't realize I'd forgotten you. Anyways It seems that one of Scandinavia, Germany, China or Venice will be the first to industrialize. If there is a tie in the algorithm here then Collie has the final decision. Scandinator (talk) 01:42, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Also what cloth did Britain have?

01:46, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

It seems like I am close to completing the general education(been working on that since like 1590 or something). Anyway I feel like if China is so close to the top then we should have an Asian industrialization part of this. But only China since it is the only Asian nation that has alot of points.AP (talk) 01:50, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The problem with China industrializing first is that Crim posts very irregularly.... Scandinator (talk) 12:30, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * So, could you add something to the chart so that the number of times you post in a set span of time affects your final score? CourageousLife (talk) 20:36, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I still haven't had any response to the fact that the Russian colony Novorossiya is a large producer of cotton, and that russia itself is a large producer of flaxseed and linnen, witch i consieder a resource I can utilize to industrialize. Also, what counts as heartland wars, I mean, my "heartland" is more of an area encompasing Moscow, Novgorod, Arkhangelsk, Nikolaevsk, staraya rossa and staraya ladoga, the only wars faught there were arguably the war against velikopermie and the mahdi, witch all happened in excess of 50 years ago. to reiterate I do not want to start industrialization since I started it in PMI, but I just want to see how I stand compared to others.-Lx (leave me a message) 13:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, whoever put me up there. I would like to point out that my major fabric is linen, not cotton, but I'm not complaining. CourageousLife (talk) 20:17, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the table. The only nations that i've seen consistently developing and deserving the general education point is Bavaria, China, and my own nation. Correct me if i'm wrong. Also, this is a friendly neighborhood reminder that only mods may edit the table.AP (talk) 06:51, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

I don't irregularly post anymore. I've been upping my game regarding that for some time now. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 17:02, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit. I strongly doubt that Scandinavia fits all twelve categories so soon. I don't expect to be starting industrialization, but I would've thought that Venice and China would've been higher up on the list.

18:16, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Whoa...if Maya can have Linnen as their Industry, then Russia can have the same. Russia has 1. Flax(Linnen) in the Russian heartland, 2. Cotton in the Texan colony,(resources for mass-produciton) 3. Russia is, along with Scandinavia, a Founder and co-chairs of NETA, a successor to RETA, the successor of the Hanseatic League, basicaly, a trade network spanning the baltic and beond(i.e. a market for the resource) is entirely under Russia and Scandinavia's control. 4. Russia has a substantial merchant fleet, seeing as it is a mercatile nation(i.e. the hability to transport that resource to the market) and 5. Russia has not had wars in its heartland since the Caliphal wars(i.e. no wars in ~50 years)...Russia might also have an extensive colonial area, depending on what that means, Sibiria and post-ural Russia can be considered a colonial area. I must re-iterate that i do not wish to start industrialization since I started it before...and that I will take the liberty of changin "Novgorod" in the table to "Russia", seeing as it is the same nation.-Lx (leave me a message) 00:44, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I already had like 7-8 of the points right off the bat, I just worked on the other 4 intensively. General education took a very long time.AP (talk) 01:05, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

And I thought any changes in your nation used to boost your industrialization would be seen as illegal...or something like that...AFAIK.

01:08, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

That was aimed at nations "claiming" to have already had something. For example, someone just randomly writing into their next post that their "pro-business legal system" supported merchants or whatever. That would be wrong. Introducing laws over a few years to work  at that law would be allowed.AP (talk) 01:12, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I see. I wish I had known that before... 01:14, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

You and Russia are next to do it though. It spreads geographically, not by points. AP (talk) 01:18, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, well that's great then! :D 01:21, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

So, how about geographic expansion to different continents. Say Asia. Will China industrialize first, since they have a higher score, or will Japan, because it has close colonial borders with Venice? CourageousLife (talk) 19:47, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Mononobe Shogunate only has one point, so industrialisation for the Mononobe Shogunate won't happen for quite a long while. However I do plan on having an earlier Meiji Restoration scenario say, when industrialisation eventually reaches to the Mononobe Shogunate (which would be sometime in the 1830s-1860s I'm guessing.) -Kogasa  2013年4月10日 04:58:47 (JST)

Well, I border China too... :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:04, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

The rules say that once a country begins industrialization, then it spreads geographically. We can't have two separate industrial revolutions in Europe and Asia. People need to understand that not everyone can industrialize right away, especially India, Africa, or even the Far East. AP (talk) 22:39, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Well, simultanious industrial revolutions would be interesting. Something different. And you never know, Asia could pull it off. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:57, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Let me revise this scenario. Say that a European country industrializes first. Who, then, would be next in line, China, who has more points, or Japan, who is closer to a European colony? I realize that things have changed, but this is only a hypothetical situation. CourageousLife (talk) 23:20, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

It wuld probably be China, as colonies next to each other don't really influence things. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:42, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram/Orissa
Total: 70
 * Location: (5+3)/2 = 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Orissa (L), Mataram (LV), Godavari (MV), Bundela (MV), Bihar (M), Oudh (MV), Rajputana (M)) 18/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economic: 8/1 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -(9+7)/2 = -8
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Edits: 5864
 * Time: 19:38 = 216
 * (5864/216)*pi =85.288422
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -8

Lampung (Tulangbawang)
Total: 35
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economic: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Coalition Victory. ((70/(70+35))*2) - 1 = 0.3333333 (Damn it!!)

Coalition can claim 33.3% of Tulangbawang. War lasts 3 years - finishing in 1653, allowing the Coalition to claim 27.8% of the country. The territory is added onto Mataram.

Discussion
Your location score should be an average of both coalition member's scores. E.g. (4 + 1)/2 = 2.5 - 3 --<font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 23:27, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:29, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals can't lead wars.AP (talk) 05:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And another correction.you led three wars on the last 15 years and helped on one.one of the wars youled lasted 5years, the other 5 and the other 2.so your recente war score is -14.Obviously, if Orissa is the leader, and you did your editcount wrong again.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

The two phase war was actually 4 years, yet two would be taken away as it was a simultanious invasion. Then there was indeed a 5 year war. And then I helped for 2 years. So -9. Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

No. Your war with Malwa, which started after 1636, lasted 6 years.Then there was the war with Tondo/Namayan/Maynilla, which started one year before your war with Malwa, and which you leadered, and which also started after 1636, and then your first stage of the Sumatran war and your helping of Ethiopia on the war against Adal.supplies sent do not count.only military aid. So, -14. Or better, we could sum the recent war and expansion of both your leaders, to avoid trouble.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but the Ethiopian/Malwan war were at the same time, and it only says -1 per year, not per war. Yeah, the second part makes sense (you mean adding them and then dividing by 2 right?). Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:50, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * So you would have -8 on expansion (-6 (Mataram)+-9 (Orissa)/2).--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:08, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Collie could you respond please? Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I was responding until your edit provoked an edit conflict and delayed this reply.anyway,...:

"Every year of war in the last 15 years that you fought as a leader is -1."

Yes, this description gets very vague on this situation.but i would assume that two simultaneous wars would end like two points for an year, after all your army would be very strained by the quantity and distance of wars. like a two-front war.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that should depend on population. I have enough people to field a couple small armies so they won't be as fatigued. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:14, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, not if you have two or three armies. XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:11, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * But OTL, in the Second World War, would Russia have stood a two-front war, even with their population?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ok Collie, I have ended the war. Could you give me the link to the page where we can see our main edits so this confusion does not arise again? :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:31, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Editcount

--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

You were right all along. However, COULDN'T YOU HAVE SHOWN US THE PAGE BEFORE, lol XD  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I never thought that linking the page was an option.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 21:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, it does make life a lot simpler. I think it might be useful having the link on the rules page (in the edits part of the war algorythm). It will benefit all users. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:57, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

And on a different note, would Orissa have managed to take over Khandesh completely by now? :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:58, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:14, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 87
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV) = 6/4 = 1.5---2
 * Military: 16/2--8
 * Economy: 14/2---7
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.8720468
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10

New Georgia
Total: 22 x 1.5 = 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: New Georgia(L)---0
 * Military: 2(existed for 2 turns so far)---0
 * Economy: 2---0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Nation age: -10
 * Population: 5
 * Participation: 10

Result
(87(120))*2-1= 45%

New Georgia is done.

Disucssion
So, were you trying to conveniently forget that the motive factor existed?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I did forget that. Anyway New Georgia's population is around 50,000 and since it has existed for 2 turns only, it can only have 2 turns of military and economy. Also whoever did chance messed it up.AP (talk) 17:27, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and 10x the population of New Georgia is 500,000 which my population is well over that. Sorry I didnt mention that earlier.AP (talk) 17:47, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, there is a rule about chance that says the editcount counts only the edits made on the main articles, not all the edits, and i saw that about 40% of your own edits are on talk pages. Obviously, i'm trying to enforce this rule, because nobody uses it, and the probably might be because that some players don't know how to find their numbers.because when i tried to enforce this rule in the Prussian/-German war, Imp asked me how he did to find his number, for example.My edit was a correction of your first version, which used the total number.And another thing: Dif you do anything with New Georgia before independence?The point is that if you did nothing, so they would have only 1 point on economy and infrastructure.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:47, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Why is there three copies of the same algorithm? I'm deleting two just as a heads up.AP (talk) 17:35, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Checking the page history, It was Andr3w.He apparently went to talk about the algorythm of his own war, and somehow he tripled the quantity of algorythm of this war.must be something with his iPad.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:12, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm on an iPad is there anyway someone could put the algorithm up for the Bavarian invasion of tyrolia? I can't do that here and have no clue when I'll have access to a computer.Andr3w777 (talk) 16:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll get on it for you. :D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:11, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

?
The talk page is blank is it just me or is everybody having this problem?AP (talk) 17:33, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Just this morning i had the same problem.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:36, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I've not had this problem lately but I have experienced it in the past. It just means that we should archive some more of the page is all. That will stop it happening again for a while, but it is basically random but the bigger the page, the more likely it is to happen. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:09, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think so.this page has been cut down to size recently.Just 50.000 kb, while the Mian page is 365.000 and it seems like it never happened again.When it happened to me, i went to the edition window, submitted my edition without having changed anything, and the thing went back to normal.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Same problem a while ago.

21:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I just archived the page a week ago............ But yea... Just exit and reload the page and it should be alright. Scandinator (talk)

Bavaria
Total: 59
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: (Bavaria (L), Salzburg (MV), Bohemia (M)) = 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 8/3 = 3
 * Economy: 10/3 = 3
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 7
 * Edit Count: 1208
 * UTC Time: 15:56 = 150
 * 1207/150 xpi = 25.2793489
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Tyrol
Total: 38
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Tyrol (L)): 4/6 = 0
 * Military Development: 3/8 = 0
 * Economy: 3/10 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Bavarian victory. ((59/(59+38))*2) - 1 = 0.216494845

Bavaria can claim 22% of Tyrol. The war lasts 3 years, Bavaria can claim 18.3% of Tyrol.

Discussion
Just doing this algo for Andrew as he requested someone to do it for him as he cannot edit that well. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:18, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I appreicate your help Imp, can you figure this out? I really don't have time to.Andr3w777 (talk) 01:03, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Rome
Total: 62
 * Location: +5 (Turkey) + 4 (Persia)/2 = 5
 * Tactical Advantage: +8 (Attackers Advatange, larger Colonial Empire, Capital on High Ground)
 * Nations: (Rome (L), Persia (L), Venice (M), Thrace (M)) +14/4 = 4
 * Military Development: 4+3/2 = 4/2 = 2
 * Economic Development: 2+3/2 = 5/2 = 2
 * Infrasturcture: 0
 * Expansion: -1
 * Chance: 4
 * ​Edits: 3301
 * UTC time: 11:27 = 14
 * 5811/98= 235.785714*pi = 740.742667
 * Motive: +3
 * Nation Age: +0
 * Population: 7+8/2 = 8+20 = 28
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Armenia
Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: (Armenia (L)): 4/8 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/4 = 0
 * Economy: 2/4= 0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 2
 * Population: 6
 * Nation age: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Outcome
Coalition victory. ((62/(62+31))*2) - 1 = 0.33333333

The Coalition can claim 33.3% of Armenia. If the war lasts 3 years, the Coalition can claim 27.8% of Armenia.

However, due to the fact that Rome has 13% of Armenia through its previous war, 13+27 = 40%, Rome topples the Armenian government.

Discussison
Alright, you can't claim help from Venice without them saying anything and Persia is a leader. Since they are leaders, their development scores is going to be fused with yours and divided by two. Again, you can't have 5 because there are no minorities in Georgia, or in Armenia (except for the Abkhazians and the Ossetians, but why would you care?).And your development scores are loe like that because you only started playing again in 1645, did nothing from there to the war and you can't update military, economy and the like while you are fighting in wars, leving only two turns in which you did domething.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 15:00, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Venice will support Rome with Greece, and Thrace lending military support. The other states also send supplies. Scandinator (talk) 12:49, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Venice
Total: 57
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Venice (L), Piedmont (MV), Three Sicilies (MV), Naples (MV), Croatia (MV), Albania (M), Montenegro (M), Greece (MV), Thrace (MV), Malacca (MV), Bavaria (M), Cyprus (S), Crete (MV): 31/6= 5
 * Military Development: 8/2 = 4
 * Economy: 12/2 = 6
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Edit Count: 1802
 * UTC Time: 4:06
 * 1802/24*pi = 235.8812484
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3
 * Puppet States: -2 (Thrace and Malacca)

Hungary
Total: 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Hungary (L), Wallachia (MV): 6 = 0
 * Military Development: 2 = 0
 * Economy: 2 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -2
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance:
 * Edit Count:
 * UTC Time:
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7 (Slovakia ~2, Hungary ~3, Romania ~3, 1700 numbers)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Recent Wars: 0

Discussion
Well, since Hungary had a player at the time you posted, you must wait until he responds to your declaration.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 14:47, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Please, dont attack, i dont want any war. This is my first turn since i got back. You can destroy my nation very fast, im will not be a problem for you. Mawilda (talk) 16:06, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

All this strength lined up against a phantom threat. Yank 16:49, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Let's face it, he invaded this turn because he didnt want them building up their military or economy.AP (talk) 18:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Cyprus sends supplies and Crete military aid to the Venetians. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:57, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I hand been planning the attack for the last two weeks... And it was because of the mod events for Hungary that made them double in size. Scandinator (talk) 02:30, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

You say in your post:  Venice itself invades Bosnia-Serbia in an attempt to counter Hungarian expansion and connect the Croatia and Dalamatia to Albania and Greece. So you are now  double in size... and also:  Albania moves closer to the Venetian League and Montenegro requests to join as well. You control 2 more countrys... Mawilda (talk) 03:14, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

The Venetian League is a trading and alliance group, not a bunch of nations that I control. Albania and Montenegro are only interested in affairs near them and a good flow of trade and thus they help Venice with Balkan issues but not conflicts half a world away or even in Western Europe and they will only help if they can get something out of it too. I only managed to get about 25% of Yugoslavia to counter the Hungarian position in the area. Yugoslavia is hostile to all the statesin its area except for Bulgaria. Scandinator (talk) 04:04, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

What would each nation recieve for their efforts??Andr3w777 (talk) 16:08, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well we only take about 25% so you can have some of Slovakia, I'll obtain the Romanian coast and part of Hungary. Scandinator (talk) 01:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Portugal
Total: 81
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: Portugal (L), Castille (MV), León (MV) = 8/6 = ~2
 * Military Development: 18/1 = 18
 * Economy: 12/1 = 12
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 4171
 * UTC Time: 21:00
 * 4171/2*pi = 6551.79148
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 10+7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Aragon
Total: 24 x 1.5 = 36
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Aragon (L) = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 1 = 0
 * Economy: 1 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Luso-Castillian victory.

81/115 - 0,5 x 2 = 0,408695652

Castille and Portugal have right to 40,8% of Aragon, toppling their government.The war has to last three years for this to happen.

Discussion
Navarre doesn't exist, it was annexed into Aragon years ago.AP (talk) 22:05, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the information.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 22:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Bihar/Orissa
Total: 68
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Bihar (L), Orissa (L), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M), Rajputana (M), Ethiopia (M), Adal (MV)) 21/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economy: 8/1 = 8
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -9
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edit Count: 5958
 * UTC Time: 12:53 = 30
 * (5958/30)*pi = 623.920301
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 18
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -4

Delhi
Total: 22*1.5 = 33 (22?)
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Delhi (L)): 4/21 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Bihar/Orissa
Total: 64
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (Bihar (L), Orissa (L), Oudh (MV), Cebu (M), Rajputana (M), Ethiopia (M), Adal (MV)) 21/4 = 5
 * Military Development: 22/1 = 22
 * Economy: 4/1 = 4
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: -6
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * Edit Count: 6023
 * UTC Time: 13:06 = 18
 * (6023/18)*pi = 1051.211808
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 18
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -6

Delhi
Total: 22*1.5 = 33
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: (Delhi (L)): 4/21 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/4 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -2

Phase 1
Orissan victory. ((68/(68+33))*2) - 1 = 0.346534653 ((68/90)*2 - 1 = 0.51111111?)

Orissa can claim up to 34.7% (51%?) of Delhi. In two years, the Coalition captures 26% (38%?) of Delhi.

Phase 2
Orissan victory. ((64/(64+33))*2) - 1 = 0.319587628

Orissa can claim up to 32% of Dehi. In one year, the coalition captures 16% of Delhi. Combining this with the previous score, 26+16 = 42%, toppling Dehli's government.

Discussion
See Collie, I used the edit count thingy. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 13:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Delhi is very densely populated.. you would only get the +10 population bonus rather than 20. Also they recently had a popular revolt, giving them a bonus. AP (talk) 01:16, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

I don't wanna seem like I'm out to get you though :D AP (talk) 01:42, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

No thats fine.

I thought you might say about the popular revolt, but it isn't. If you see, the Sultan took control of his state, without popular support (I thought that's what it meant in the mo event). Well, its was a 20 cause I was using the combined Orissan/Bihari population. Even if I use Orissa's I would get a 20. I think if I used Bihar's though, it would be 10.

Oh, and they would only get 1 for infra cause I invaded them when they just formed. :L  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:51, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. So the factors I changed were infra (cuase they've only been around for one year), and population (as they would be a 7 cuase they have less than half their lands now). I have kept my population advantage to a +10, cause we need to discuss that factor. Those were it (military and economy being divided by 1 gives me a lot of advantage ;)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 11:17, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

AP, I kinda need you now as the next turn has started. :l  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:43, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Cause I don't want an argument, I'll just keep things the way they are. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:24, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Temporary departure
For the rest of the week, I will be going to a place where there is possibly no internets. So, for the rest of the week, untill Sunday(or when I come back, that might be friday or saturday, time zones and whatnot), I give permission to AP to post in my stead, I will message AP with what I would like done with Russia.-Lx (leave me a message) 15:29, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia/Arabian Fed.
Total: 102
 * Location: +4
 * Tactical Advantage: +8
 * Strength: (Ethiopia (L), Arabian Federation (L), Adal (MV), Maldives (MV), Comchellak (MV), Mayilia (M), Orissa (M), Oudh (MV)) 22/4 = 5.5 ~ +6
 * Military Development: (22+6) 28/1= +28
 * Economy: (8+12) 20/1= 20
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: (5+3): -8
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 5
 * Edit Count: 1280
 * UTC Time: 15:48 = 160
 * (1281/160)*pi = 25.1523761
 * Nation Age: ((5+0)/2): 2.5 ~ +3
 * Population: +24
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Yemen
Total: 25*1.5 = 38
 * Location: +5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength:  Yemen(L) 4/14 = 0
 * Military Development: 1/22 = 0
 * Economy: 1/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: +1
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Chance: +2
 * Nation Age: -10
 * Population: +7
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Coaltion victory. (102/(102+38))*2) - 1 =  0.45714285714

The Coalition can claim up to 45.71% of Yemen.

45.71*(1-1/(2*6)) = 41.9008333333

The war lasts 6 years, allowing the coalition to claim 41.90% of Yemen. Thus the government of Yemen collapses and the country is divided by the Arabian Federation and Ethiopia.

Discussion
Hey Imp, could you handle this bit. I'm stumped over the land bit. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:58, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I was still in edit mode. Didn't even know you were about to make one. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:59, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Oh man, I already made one. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:01, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in three years the country is yours. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:17, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks for the assist. :)  Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:40, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

My advice would be to turn it into a puppet state after the war is over btw. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:12, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why of course. ;) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:17, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Several things were overlooked, like the NPC bonus being 3, not 2. Also, Kitara has been around for a while. BTW this is borderline implausible because you have no border with Kitara... This is in the rules. AP (talk) 01:26, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

There on the same continent as Ethiopia, I'm a colonial power, and thus am capable of launching colonial expeditions, and the kingdom is only a few miles to the south of Ethiopia. This is a regional conflict between two near border nations, not an interplanetary assault on the moon against Zog and Company. Besides, nations have a long and wonderful history of waging war against other nations with whom they never bordered. Just ask the Holy Roman Empire. Had dozens of nations from both sides of Europe blasting each other to bits without ever having shared a border in their history. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:30, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

That example makes no sense considering that there were dozens of countries in the HRE that could obtain military access to invade a non-bordering nation. You on the other hand must cross the uncivilized wastelands of the interior of East Africa to reach Kitara. There's considerable distance, not "just a few miles." There are tribes living there. This is against the rules anyway.AP (talk) 05:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'll intervene so we don't have one of those "classic PMII algo wars". Well, Viva only thought it was a two cause he thought that changing the religion of the leader was a change of government. I'm guessing its not?

Plus, AP, his armies might have to cross like 100 miles, but with a secure supply line (uncivilised ppls would really stay away from the Ethiopian army), they would be fed and could reach Kitara. There, they would be able to get food from the local lands they captured (the Romans did this). He would be able to claim a portion of Kitara as his territory after a short war. Then he might attack again. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:59, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why would a nation not just expand and take over the uncivilized/non-controlled land inbetween itself and the other country? Seems like a lot of wasted effort. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:12, April 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's what I've been doing in the last decades. However, nobody seems to be paying attention to that fact. Regardless, I've decided to take out Yemen so as not to waste this algorithim. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:56, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Yet if that becomes a puppet, then Viva can use it to expand 10000km for Kitara and 10000km for Ethiopia. Not so stupid now... :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:16, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Once again, you ignored the NPC development scores which are 3 for each category. This means you havent won by enough to annex them.AP (talk) 00:16, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

AP, you need to see how long they have been around (4 years). That will give them 3 years of infra and a year each on military and economy. Ask collie if ya don't believe me. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 00:19, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but for every turn, development scores go up by 2 not 1.AP (talk) 00:37, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not for NPCs. Read the rules AP. ;)  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:08, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

What aare you talking about? There is nothing that states that. One turn= 2 points for all nations. You can't keep reverting changes to allow them to annex Yemen. It has to be correctly done and all you keep doing is putting the wrong scores on.AP (talk) 22:40, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

"Ex: If a nation existed for 11 years, or spent 11 turns not doing anything, this would mean that the infrastructure and the economy were updated in four turns, and the military in three. Dividing all those scores by two, the NPC nation would receive six points of bonus, two for each department (economy, infrastructure and military)"

The rules say so. This one has only lasted 4. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:05, April 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Cause the 3/3/3 comes from 15 being divided into 3 (5) then being halved (5/2 = 2.5) and rounded up (2.5 = 3). So technically, 4/3 = 1.33 = 1. Then 1/2 = 0.5 = 1. So Yemen's infra shouldn't even be three, it should be 1. [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:21, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I'm having the Arabian Federation start a war against Yemen too. However I am willing to do this as a coalition war if you'd like, so Ethiopia definitely wins the rest of Yemen that isn't annexed into my federation. What say you? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:33, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I accept the help of course. Thank you. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:42, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay then, I'll add in the Arabian Federation as a coalition partner then. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:55, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay I've done that now and we have won. Are you happy with my map on how I'd like to divide Yemen between us both? If so this war is complete. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:31, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the wait. Yes, I am please withthe division of Yemen. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:40, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

China
Total: 80
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Strength: (China (L), Vietnam (MV), Laos (MV), Formosa (MV), Orissa (M), Oudh (MV), Carnatic (MV))= 17/6 = 3
 * Military Development: (26/3)= 9
 * Economy: (24/3)= 8
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count: 1945
 * UTC Time: 8
 * (1945/8)*pi= 763.7997...
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 28
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Tibet
Total: 37
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: (Tibet (L), Kashmir (MV)): 6/17 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/26 = 0
 * Economy: 2/24= 0
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 9
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Massive Chinese victory. China may take up to ((80/(117)*2)-1 = 37% of Tibetan territory and/or topple the government. The war lasts for five years, letting China claim (x)*(1-1/10) = 33.3%, toppling their government.

Discussion
China gets 40% of Tibet's territory in a 3-year war. Tibet is gone. They had a good run. Yank 20:08, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Lol Yank. Not even three, its takes two. :D  Imp (Say Hi?!) 22:21, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

there was an error.Tibet is obviously inactive, so their chance would be counted like an NPC chance.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 20:13, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

He has, however, edited in the last 15 years. Imp (Say Hi?!) 20:19, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. I see what you mean. Imp (Say Hi?!) 23:23, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Request
I normally come home from school around 5:00 PM (17:00) PM EDT, which means I miss the change of every turn. By the time I am able to get on my computer it is normally 6:00 or 7:00, so I am requesting permission to post between 6:00 to 8:00 Monday - Friday from now until June. If the mods could allow this, I would be very grateful.

23:01, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

You can post when you want already. I'm unsure what your asking. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:37, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

He wants to post from 11-1 BST (basically from an hour to three after the new turn has been posted). Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:47, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Posting in the old turn? Why not just post in the new turn? <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 17:54, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly.--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 19:42, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

...Because I keep missing the old turn. After a few days I will be able to turn this around (end of this week probably) and start posting in the new turn.

22:31, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

If you miss 1 old turn then post in the new turn then you'll be back on track again. Am I the only one who is struggling to see the complexities of this? Talk about a mountain out of a mole hill. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:20, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Scandinavia
Total: 64
 * Location: 2
 * Tactical: 6
 * Strength: Scandinavia(L)+Saami(MV)+Bengal(MV)+Lanka(MV)+Russia(s)+Minsk(S)+Astrakhan(SV)/Tatar State(SV)+ Portugal(S)+Leon(SV)+Castille(SV)+Navarre(SV)+Aragon(SV)= 23/4 = 5.75--6
 * Military: 16/3--5
 * Economy: 14/3---5
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 3
 * Chance: 9
 * UTC: (05:46)
 * Edit: 1523
 * (1523/120) x pi = 39.1944678
 * Nation Age: 5
 * Population: 17
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent wars: -3
 * Puppet States: -1

Khmer
Total: 30
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical: 0
 * Strength: Khmer(L)---0
 * Military: 3---0
 * Economy: 3---0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: -1
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 4
 * Nation age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -3

Result
(64/(94))*2-1 = 0.366344

Scandinavia can take 37% of Khmer land. In 5 years, the unstable Khmeri(right demonym?) government is toppled.

Discussion
It's unfortunate New Georgia declared independence, it messed me up in this venture... I feel like i forgot something, I did this pretty quick so other mods should probably look it over.AP (talk) 01:35, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Worked out a few kinks in the Khmer/Scandinavian side, they deserved 3 more points than they originally got... This should be final.AP (talk) 03:03, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

I changed Russia's military involvement to supplies involvement...Does not change a single thing, you still win.-Lx (leave me a message) 12:51, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, other errors.First, most likely the population of Khmer, that now includes Siam, would be 7, not 6.And, there is also the rule that you lose one point for each puppet state you have (in your case, Aymará, Inca and Bengal.), and something you did not hear about Sri Lanka.the Tamil and the Sinhalese parts would never agree to a union.And, Cambodia-Stockholm is 3 for distance? is this a joke?--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 17:45, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Even with Siam, Khmer would not exceed 6 population points. Southeast Asia was not very populated in this century. You yourself have mentioned that the Aymara are not puppets, instead I have to unite them because they're fractured. Therefore I do not lose one for puppets on that one. I annexed the Incan puppet state after 70+ years of domination plus they had no successor a while ago like a few years. Bengal would be the only puppet i'd lose points on. I kept the divisions of Lanka to prevent strife, but I can keep the peace and suppress any religious violence with a colonial army that I placed there recently. As for the expansion, the Saami expanded not my main nation. Also, since we(Scandinavia and Portugal) are in personal union and share the same ruler we kinda have a necessity to aid each other in wars... at least supplies. This should be right.AP (talk) 23:32, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

When i said that the Aymará were puppets, i was talking about the Aymará chief that is sponsored by you, that one in OTL Chile. the rest of the Aymarás isn't.But the expansion was not because of the Saami.it was, since you have 3 points on recent wars, i figured that those were because of the New Georgian war, which counted as expansion.And what i'm saying about Sri Lanka, is that it should be easier to unite Sitawaka and Kandy.after all, they're both Sinhalese and their diviosion is all about a dynastic dispute.Still, even if you did that, Jaffna wouldn't agree, and this doesn't condition you to call that Lanka.Ah, and about the Inca, I still need confirmation about that, as the rules say nothing about that.Ah, and something else; you can't annex stable nations with no war (referring to what i think you are trying to do with the Miami.)--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:12, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

As for the Myami Kingdom, I guess I'll just surround them with the nearest colony and then invade. But that will be much later since I've had 2 wars recently(this one and the New Georgian reconquest).AP (talk) 17:11, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Russia
Total: 58
 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 6(5+1)
 * Strength: Russia(L)/Minsk(M)/Tatar(MV)/Astrakhan(MV) = 11/4 ~3
 * Military Development: 10/6 = ~2
 * Economy: 8/2 = 4
 * Infrastructure: N/A
 * Expansion: -5
 * Motive: 7(Ukrainians stripping citizenship of Russians)
 * Chance: 9
 * Edit Count:2202
 * UTC Time: 3:52
 * (2202/30)*pi = 230.5 9 290
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Puppets: -1
 * Population: 18(10+8)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -1

Ukraine
Total: 32
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Strength: Ukraine = 4 = 0
 * Military Development: 6 = 0
 * Economy: 2 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 3
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 2
 * Edit Count: 2202
 * UTC Time: 3:52
 * (2202/30)*pi = 230.59 2 90
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 7
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Results
Tactical Russian Victory. Russia gets at most (((59/91)-0.5)*2)*100%=29.67% Of Ukraine, with a 3 year war, Russia gets 29.67*0.8333=24.725% of Ukraine, with a 4 year war, 29.67*8.75=25.96125, enough to capture the capital, Kiev, and some very much needed agricultural Land, and perhaps access to he black sea/crimea if the lands are devided in the right way. Not too sure how much that is in pixel value yet.

Discussions
Alright, this nation just became a player nation...so...does it get an NPC bonus from when it was NPC, or does it get 0 in those categories, or does it get 2 pts in each category as if it were player state for past years of what, is his one year of military dev added to NPC bonus? I am confused on what to do about that...thats why I put "?" next to certain numbers-Lx (leave me a message) 03:47, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

We count both.he gets two for the years when he was a player nation (two), and the gets one for the years he was a NPC (13).--Collie Kaltenbrunner (talk) 07:06, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Alright. I think I did the NPC thing right, but just somebody taht actualy knows how to do NPC bonus, can you check it?-Lx (leave me a message) 13:01, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Archive
We need another one for the page. Its been more than 30 years. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:30, April 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't matter. Its done. :P [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:25, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram
Total: 71
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 6
 * Nations: (Mataram (L), Negara Daha (MV), Cebu (M)) 9/4 = 2
 * Military Development: 22/2 = 11
 * Economic: 8/2 = 4
 * Infrastructure: 0
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 1
 * Edits: 6023
 * Time: 13:06 = 18
 * (6023/18)*pi =
 * Nation Age: 0
 * Population: 27
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Lampung (Tulangbawang)
Total: 31
 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 0
 * Nations: Sundabang (L): 4/18 = 0
 * Military Development: 2/22 = 0
 * Economic: 2/8 = 0
 * Infrastructure: 2
 * Expansion: 0
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 1
 * Nation Age: -5
 * Population: 6
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0

Result
Matarami Victory. ((71/(71+31))*2) - 1 = 0.39215686

Mataram can claim 39% of Lumpang. In one year, they capture 19.5% of the nation. Combining it with their previous score of 27.8%, (47.3%) they topple Lampung's government and add it onto their nation.

Discussion
How I got the NPC thing? 11/3 = 4; 4/2 = 2  Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:11, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mataram's population is not nearly as high as you claim it to be. You can't always assume a +20 bonus every algorithm.AP (talk) 01:07, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Java is the most densly populated island in the whole of Indonesia. Add that to almost half of Sumatra. And look at the size of the country I am invading, its tiny. :P  Imp (Say Hi?!) 10:37, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Gulf of Mexico Division
We had previously agreed on a division for the Gulf of Mexico, correct? I am asking because it's not represented on the map at all like we had said. I know, as the Mayans, that I have land south of the Rio Grande, if the proposal holds. I would just like to confirm that this agreement still stands. CourageousLife (talk) 19:14, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

The agreement kind of just...died. But I'll be up for a redraw. I propose that Novogrodian/Cypriot territory is split equally along the coastline between Venice and the Maya. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:18, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. I didn't know what the deal was with the Cyprus/Crete expansion, but they crossed the Rio Grande according to Collie, which I thought we had agreed on. It also may be that Collie just doesn't know where the expansion is going. CourageousLife (talk) 01:55, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't exactly written 'X colony expands X kilometres (direction)' but yeah, I see your point. I propose the borders between Novogrod and Cyprus be either the Colorado or Brazos rivers. Airlinesguy (talk) 00:52, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

The only border that concerns me is the Rio Grande. If you'll agree to that, then we can lock in that part of the deal. CourageousLife (talk) 21:14, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Ya, the not expanding by the rio grande may have been my fault. While trying to fix collie's mistakes I might have(I did) relocated Cypriot lands arbitrarily, and as easily as I could. I followed the border wanting to speed things up and get my map out before sombody else posts their corrections and I have to restart with the downloading and the editing. All you need to do to fix is just follow rio grande, and ctrl-c ctrl-v the lands past the rio onto the Rio, or just ignore those encroaching lands altogether and expand onto the rio so that it is easier to add future expansion. Brazos river might work. Me and venice already agreed on the missisipi as our border.-Lx (leave me a message) 23:41, April 10, 2013 (UTC)