User talk:Katholico



Chile (1983: Doomsday)
Hey man you seem to know a lot about Chile. I was wondering if you could take a look at Chile (1983: Doomsday). I originally wrote the article, but in all honesty I know little about the nation besides what I found online. Mitro 02:24, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry about what happened in Chile. I hope you and your loved ones are alright. Mitro 02:16, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Rise of Roses
I don't know when did Italian colonization of Patagonia start. I believe it was by 1601, as it includes Chile and I don't want to add too many wars with Spain. Fedelede 21:09, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for telling me that! Fed, I kinda think it is more plausible if it only starts in1846.

And thanks for showing interest in Rise of Roses!Eastward Expansion 21:59, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Central World
Hi Katholico might you create and article for Central World, I'm trying to do a community project. Please Answer me. VENEZUELA 22:30, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Perfecto gracias! recuerda el template CWprop y solo para saber, cuando lo vas a hacer? VENEZUELA 22:52, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

No paso ningun conflicto, solo que los paises que declararon la guerra al Eje, antes del D-day si la declaran pero los de luego del D-day no la declaran, ya que sin la ayuda inglesa por que UK ya estaba rendida, D-day fue un completo desastre aliado... VENEZUELA 02:05, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Bien! es GRANDIOSO que hayas echo el timeline! VENEZUELA 04:04, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

La depresion si pasa, y te dejo que elijas el POD. se libre! VENEZUELA 20:14, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

disculpa lo q paso, ni se como paso, pero solo para recordarte que salieron nuevos paises en Asia (India, Pakistan), Oceania (Australia), Europa (varios), Norte America (Canada), y Africa (sudafrica) y que Mexico fue Central Power en este TTL, saludos! VENEZUELA 22:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

tambien, podrias quitar mi firma en tus articulos en la main discussion page asi talvez llegemos a los hot spots. VENEZUELA 22:20, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Bueno la verdad es que hiba a hacer unas cuantas cosas en unos dias, pero es que ya sabes como es Doomsday, algo muy cautivador. VENEZUELA 21:20, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Traduction
In this scheme, the National Congress dominated national politics, while the President was a figure almost decorative, without authority and subject to the decision of the parliamentary majority. The political parties grouped into two major political groups: the Coalition, formed by the Conservative Party and more liberal groups, and the Liberal Alliance, which included liberal groups and the Radical Party. By the end of the period of 1910 begin to be important Socialist Workers Party and its association with the labor movement.

At this time, there were three social groups are strongly marked, the oligarchy, the middle class and popular sectors. During these years, the country's progress continued due to the wealth produced salt mining, which allowed the construction of some works such as the Trans-Andean Railroad and the National Museum of Fine Arts, to commemorate the Centennial of Independence. However, the national economy had overcome the destructive earthquake that hit the port of Valparaiso, on August 16, 1906. During the First World War, the country was ruled by President Luis Sanfuentes, who decides to stay neutral, despite the historical relations that Chile has with both Germany and Great Britain. After the invention of synthetic saltpeter during the Great War, the Chilean economy experienced a gradual decline until the late 30s. In 1920, was elected President Arturo Alessandri Palma. Alessandri proposes a series of political and social reforms to fix once the situation in the country, but the Congress is strongly opposed. The dissatisfaction with the rejection of the reforms was reflected in the so-called saber rattling in 1924, by the young officers of the army and seen as a coup threat. Congress passes the laws, but the military did not return to their own work. In this situation, Alessandri feel that their power has been exceeded and presented his resignation to Congress, based on a "voluntary exile" on 10 September 1924. Between 1924-1925 the power was held by two government boards, shaped by the military. On September 11, 1924 the National Congress was dissolved. However, in the end the military failed to control the situation, and the January 23, 1925 Alessandri returns to complete its mandate. Alessandri succeeds in creating the Central Bank of Chile and is approved in a referendum a new constitution is promulgated on September 18, 1925. With this Constitution, the power effectively becomes the President of the Republic, ending the parliamentary government, and establishing a presidential system.

Following the presidential victory of the new Constitution of 1925, President Alessandri proposed to launch a single candidacy for the elections of that year, and thus leaving behind the country's political crisis. The parties choose the candidate Borgoño Luis Barros, who later is elected president, assuming the December 23, 1925. During the presidency of Borgoño Barros, is created the Comptroller General of the Republic and the Carabineros de Chile (the new police). On the external side, negotiations between Chile and Peru on the territory of Tacna and Arica continue by this time. However, the failure of arbitration leads both countries to go to war in 1928. The conflict lasts for more than three years, but Chile won the war. Tacna stay definitely under Chilean control. After the end of the war, the effects of the Great Depression hit the country. However, the industrial push and monetary reparations following the war, allowed the second government of President Arturo Alessandri (elected in 1930) resisting the crisis and continue the development of the country.

Espero que crees mas articulos y me ayudes a invitar mas gente! VENEZUELA 22:54, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Que bien, recuerda q america entera esta en la esfera de influencia de USA, y Espana fue el 1 pais en abandonar el facismo en 1977 (pero no al 100 por ciento, fue un regimen semi-facista hasta el 1982, que todo cambio y ya para el 89 todo estaba cayendo. saludos! VENEZUELA 23:26, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Quieres ser uno d los encargados de CW conmigo y Migue235, pero eso te involucraria como alguien q tiene que escribir varios articulos y bueno volverte alguien que estaria mucho tiempo en CW y a expandirlo invitando mas gente, pero a la ves puedes hacer muchas cosas mas, como poner noticias. VENEZUELA 01:46, July 21, 2010 (UTC) respondeme porfa.

Genial, creo que necesitamos Organization of Nations, varios paises, Guerra Fria, expander el timeline, una pagina de guerras, una de idiomas, tecnologia, y si todo lo izquierdista desparecio luego de la caida de la URSS, se volvieron partidos menores y olvidados como el facismo en OTL, y dame tu opinion crees que deberia haber una Guerra contra el terror entre la EC y los terroristas, y ademas como USA es mas debil tiene que mantener a sus dictadores a poder, como por ejemplo en mi articulo de Venezuela Perez Jimenez se queda mas en el poder gracias a ellos, y por eso Venezuela logra ser 1er mundo, si quieres saber mas de el ve my timeline llamado Perez Jimenez's Venezuela. saludos, responde porfa. VENEZUELA 02:12, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

esas guerras estan bien pero no se lo de las guerras civiles, aunque lo de la democracia me gustaria, y talvez crear un NATO americano y un Warsaw europeo ya que Japon tiene GEACOP, ademas recuerda hacerle banderas a tus organizaciones, saludos! VENEZUELA 02:59, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Si es buena tu idea, disculpa q no te habia respondido es q no habia visto los mensajes. VENEZUELA 02:05, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

sip! VENEZUELA 04:22, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

ok, lo hare al agregar las nuevas naciones del pacifico y un error que tengo en Kazkhstan, ademas q Malawi cambio su bandera hace unas semanas. q te parece my articulo de Alemania? VENEZUELA 06:10, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Bueno, las Falkland son the Austria-Hungria, y sobre los paises, aun los tengo q escribirr todos, tambien no entendi muy bien lo q me dijiste de la cultura. VENEZUELA 06:35, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Manana salgo de Caracas, y no vuelvo hasta el 4 de sep. asi q si podrias poner las Central News, casi todas son de wikipedia. VENEZUELA 19:39, August 23, 2010 (UTC

si gracias! ademas viste el articulo de Japon. VENEZUELA 19:55, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Patagonia
La idea de una nacion italo-española me parece muy buena, pero en realidad, mi opionion seria que el italiano seria mucho mas esencial en la republica. Fedelede 23:20, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

claro, claro, andá haciendo el artículo si querés. Es una muy buena idea. Fedelede 13:19, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Si, Katholico, si vi como hiciste la bandera. Me parece que Patagonia pasaría de hecho a Italia en el 1601, pero solo se haría una verdadera colonia italiana en los 1800's. Fedelede 02:32, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Me parece una muy buena idea! Fedelede 03:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Japon
Bueno si, porque Japon fue casi igual que en la vida real, incluso perdio Midway pero ganan con lo de las bombas atomicas. VENEZUELA 20:12, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

No me di cuenta! borralo porfa, y te consegi esto para Peru solo agrega lo de tu articulo y elimina lo del comunismo!

''In a military coup on October 29, Gen. Manuel A. Odria became the new President. Odría's presidency was known as the Ochenio. He came down hard on APRA, momentarily pleasing the oligarchy and all others on the right, but followed a populist course that won him great favor with the poor and lower classes. A thriving economy allowed him to indulge in expensive but crowd-pleasing social policies. At the same time, however, civil rights were severely restricted and corruption was rampant throughout his régime.''

''It was feared that his dictatorship would run indefinitely, so it came as a surprise when Odría allowed new elections. During this time,Fernando Belaúnde Terry started his political career, and led the slate submitted by the National Front of Democratic Youth. After the National Election Board refused to accept his candidacy, he led a massive protest, and the striking image of Belaúnde walking with the flag was featured by newsmagazine Caretas the following day, in an article entitled "Así Nacen Los Lideres" ("Thus Are Leaders Born"). Belaúnde's 1956 candidacy was ultimately unsuccessful, as the dictatorship-favored right-wing candidacy of Manuel Prado Ugarteche took first place.''

''Belaúnde ran for president once again in the National Elections of 1962, this time with his own party, Acción Popular (Popular Action). The results were very tight; he ended in second place, following Víctor Raúl Haya de la Torre (APRA), by less than 14,000 votes. Since none of the candidates managed to get the Constitutionally-established minimum of one third of the vote required to win outright, selection of the President should have fallen to Congress; the long-held antagonistic relationship between the military and APRA prompted Haya de la Torre to make a deal with former dictator Odria, who had come in third, which would have resulted in Odria taking the Presidency in a coalition government.''

''However, widespread allegations of fraud prompted the Peruvian military to depose Prado and install a military junta, led by Ricardo Perez Godoy. Godoy ran a short transitional government and held new elections in 1963, which were won by Belaúnde by a more comfortable but still narrow five percent margin.''

''Throughout Latin America in the 1960s, communist movements inspired by the Cuban Revolution sought to win power throughguerrilla warfare. The Revolutionary Left Movement (Peru), or MIR, launched an insurrection that had been crushed by 1965, but Peru's internal strife would only accelerate until its climax in the 1990s.''

''The military has been prominent in Peruvian history. Coups have repeatedly interrupted civilian constitutional government. The most recent period of military rule (1968–1980) began when General Juan Velasco Alvarado overthrew elected President Fernando Belaúnde Terry of the Popular Action Party (AP). As part of what has been called the "first phase" of the military government's nationalist program, Velasco undertook an extensive agrarian reform program and nationalized the fish meal industry, some petroleum companies, and several banks and mining firms.''

''General Francisco Morales Bermúdez replaced Velasco in 1975, citing Velasco's economic mismanagement and deteriorating health. Morales Bermúdez moved the revolution into a more conservative "second phase," tempering the radical measures of the first phase and beginning the task of restoring the country's economy. A Constitutional Assembly was created in 1979, which was led by Víctor Raúl Haya de la Torre. Morales Bermúdez presided over the return to civilian government in accordance with a new constitution drawn up in 1979.''

Creo que no necesito q cambies nada. pero gracias. solo quiero que le hagas una galeria a Alemania! gracias. VENEZUELA 03:03, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

ah y si podrias poner los links externos en los estados de alemania en established from y en Otl. VENEZUELA 04:50, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Cambios
Hola te escribo de donde estoy. CUando vuelva voy a hacer unos Cambios a Central World muy grandes, tipo el imperio austro-Hungaro colapsando en varios paises en el 89, nunca hubo anexacion de POlonia y Lithuania pero si de Luxem. Y Belgica.Y. Alemania colapsando en el 89, dandole la Independencia. A WAllonia, Flanders, y Lux. Y declarandose. La republica Federal Alemana basada en la Weimar REpublic, entre otros como el reino de Polonia volviendose la 2da Republica Polaca. Espero q te gusten porque hay mas.

Hola Katholico, no volvere hasta el 15, porfavor continua con Central News. VENEZUELA 17:54, September 5, 2010 (UTC) HolA los agregare cuando termine el nuevo mapa con todos los cambios! Tambien estaba pensando q peru podria ser tomada por una revolucion luego de la guerra de tacna, q estableceria un govierno pro-Japones nacionalista Quechua q estableceria a peru como un nuevo pais llamAdo Twa... Algo ahora no recuerdo el nombre de como ellos llaman su patria. Bueno saludos.

VENE, creo que lo llaman "''Tawantinsuyu". Saludos. Fedelede 22:26, September 8, 2010 (UTC)'

Hola Katholico, viste los cambios a Alemania? VENEZUELA 21:18, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

AH, tambien podrias votar por Perez Jimenez's Venezuela como featured althistory? VENEZUELA 22:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Ups, ya lo cambio gracias! saludos. VENEZUELA 22:29, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Varsovia y CSTO
Bueno el Pacto de Varsovia es lo mismo q en OTL pero entre algunas naciones facistas, y el CSTO y lo mismo q en OTL pero entre naciones Europeas. VENEZUELA 21:04, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Hola Katholico! me gustan tus ideas pero tu y yo no somos americanos, asi que que tal si le preguntas a southwriter que es actualmente el encargado de esa guerra en norteamerica! saludos. VENEZUELA 16:46, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

si pero si no hay guerra los Americanos pueden ir a Europa a patear al Kaiser y ganar la WWI. VENEZUELA 17:03, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

USA
USA gana, pero ninguna entra en la WWI. VENEZUELA 04:36, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Porfavor Katholico! me encantaria! VENEZUELA 17:05, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

si, me gusta tu idea, lo podrias cambiar a un amarillo-naranja? porfa. VENEZUELA 17:38, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

si pero la parte amarilla puede ser mas naranjosa? VENEZUELA 17:46, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

perfecto, gracias! :] VENEZUELA 17:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

si ya legue, actualmente voy a terminar el list of nations, y Xterror va a hacer el articulo de Holanda, Francia, y el Reino de las Antillas Holandesas. VENEZUELA 17:57, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ok :D VENEZUELA 19:16, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Me gustan mucho pero falta esto: en North America: Canada, West Indies Federation, Kingdom of the Netherlands Antilles, Jamaica, St. Lucia, y los otros paises caribenos de habla hispana y en south america: West Indies Federation, y Surinam, y sobre Asia creo que deberia ser asi: uno del Medio Oriente y Uno del resto pero con una seccion de GEACOP. VENEZUELA 20:29, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

No, solo los mencionados en el articulo. VENEZUELA 02:42, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

SAC
Hola Katholico quetal si tu, Fedelede, y yo adoptamos la SAC y la expandemos, y tambien hacemos sus varias organizaciones y la Capital Sudamericana de la Cultura? VENEZUELA 18:47, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Traduction
From their positions within the province of Tarapaca, the Peruvian military organized a drive toward the coast, supported by the Navy. The idea was first to completely isolate Arica and then bring about the capture of the port of Iquique. Operations began in mid-December. On land Chilean troops withstood the fierce onslaught of Peru, while at sea, the Chilean and Peruvian navies fought near the harbor of Iquique. Despite being ahead of the Peruvian Navy in the early hours of the battle, the Chilean navy achievement then turn the tables and get the sinking of the bulk of the enemy fleet, although the ships were a lot of damage. With the defeat in Iquique, Peru ground attack was soon repulsed, and the forces had to retreat to previous positions. And during the Pacific War in 1879, the result of the naval campaign again defined the course of the war. Without its navy, the siege of Peru to Arica began to weaken and the end of January 1929, the Chilean Army organized a major offensive to drive out Peruvian Tarapacá. Once done, he arrival of more units from southern Chile, allowed the counter-attack launched from Iquique final release allowing the siege Peruvian Arica. For the month of March, the Peruvian army back to Tacna and organized their defense, as the government began experimenting Leguia early reviews product of these early setbacks in the war. The Chilean season to recover Tacna, began a week later and was led by General Carlos Ibanez del Campo. Again, the amount of Peruvian troops defending outnumbered those in Chile, however, Ibanez gradually wear down the defenders, to get completely surround the city and forced its surrender on 12 June. After regaining Tacna and Arica, the Chilean government offered peace in exchange for these provinces, but the government of Leguia said no, while the Peruvian forces organized a new attack on Tacna. However, the action failure and Chilean troops took the opportunity to continue the progress towards Arequipa. The battle for the city began on 11 July and lasted almost three weeks until achieving the Chilean Army to occupy the place. It was the confrontation that cost more lives so far, especially of civilians. After several months of war, and unable to achieve a cessation of hostilities, the Chilean government of Luis Barros Borgoño decided to continue military operations to reach Lima. The march of the Chilean Army to Peruvian capital was extremely difficult due to the effective organized defenses in southern Peru, despite the difficult situation the government was plunged product failures in Arica and Tacna. The numerical superiority continued to be the main advantage of the Peruvian forces, but slowly, several cases of desertion began to appear, affecting the organization and performance within the military battalions. By late 1929, began the so-called Great Battle of Lima, which made its debut the new Air Force of Chile, bombing the city's defenses.The fighting took place mainly on the outskirts of Lima, and extended until January 3, 1930, when finally the last of the Peruvian Army garrison surrendered to the Chilean forces. Shortly before the fall of Lima, Peru's President Augusto Leguia moved to the city of Huacho, where he planned to subsequently move the seat of government to the north. However, while there, part of a regiment revolted with the intention of deposing him and arrest him. Leguía refused and the soldiers fired, killing him. A few hours later, with the arrival of other troops, the uprising was crushed. VENEZUELA 02:35, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

No Crisis d Oceania
Hola Katholico, q crees de eliminar lo de esa crisis, y en vez hacer q todas (exepto Nueva Zelanda) sean Japonesas hasta la era de la descolonizacion en la que se crea un Commowealth Japones llamado Imperial Compact of Associated Sovereign States, lo que causa q Taiwan quiera independizarse y es tornado en un protectaroda Japones llamado Reino de Formosa, con el rey siendo el hermano de Hirohito. VENEZUELA 18:26, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Aqui la lista de los "commonwealth"


 * 1) Tuvalu


 * 1) Vanuatu


 * 1) Nueva Caledonia


 * 1) Fiji


 * 1) Kiribati


 * 1) Tutuila (Samoa Americana)


 * 1) Tokelau


 * 1) Niue


 * 1) Cook Islands


 * 1) United Kingdoms of Uvea, Sigave, and Alo (Wallis and Futuna)

VENEZUELA 18:34, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Reino de Tonga

Si, pero recuerda q en nuestro mundo USA nunca cayo, y China y Brazil estan emergiendo como potencias. VENEZUELA 19:38, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Si pero pinesalo, Africa se estaria independizando Oceania haria presion y Japon para seguir teniendolas crea ese Commowealth. VENEZUELA 19:59, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

en los 60s, y acuerdate q con la crisis igual caerian para el 2080, y sin la crisis 2100. VENEZUELA 20:11, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

OK. VENEZUELA 20:24, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Bueno se quedan britanicas. VENEZUELA 20:53, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Chile in FTBW
To be honest, the majority of stuff I made up about the South American countries, besides their names and flags, were mostly made up. The pages themselves are placeholders at the moment, as my TL is only about half way completed, so the full story hasn't been fleshed put yet.

Still, thanks for checking out my TL, and if you do have any ideas, please let me know! I'm always open to ideas, as most of mine are either old, cliched or not great. Tbguy1992 22:49, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Maps of Central World
Hello there. Thank you very much. Wow, I haven't had anyone say my maps looked real before. I haven't had anyone ask for me to draw maps for them before, I would be honored to. But besides Chile and Argentina, how has Peru changed geographically from OTL? --NuclearVacuum 00:43, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh, I didn't even notice that. Pretty interesting. I have only recently begun to learn South American history, so that is pretty interesting. Also, why does Chile expand so much. Wouldn't Argentina be the one expanding, since Juan Peron was an outspoken Hitler supporter? --NuclearVacuum 01:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * si! XD. VENEZUELA 02:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bueno UK es desde el 42 hasta el 71 titere q es cuando Esward VIII muere y Elizabeth toma el trono, y bueno personalmente pineso q UK ganaria la guerra. VENEZUELA 02:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oye Katholico juega mi map game WWIII 1962 (Map Game). VENEZUELA 23:57, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK. No, I haven't gotten around to doing any maps yet. It may take a while, so please be patient. --NuclearVacuum 01:38, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but I need to ask again. What exactly is the border changes between the borders of Ecuador, Colombia, and Peru? I am having trouble trying to get it out in my head. What is the border between Chile and Argentina? --NuclearVacuum 14:54, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Map Game 1962

 * no. VENEZUELA 00:51, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Question about Ognia
Well, it's not set in stone, but here is the background. As in OTL, Chile will support the UK and Ognia in the war. Like the UK, Chile would have allowed more freedoms for the natives of the region, allowing for greater openness of a reunification with Antarctica. Prior to the war, Chile also claimed the South Shetland Islands, while Argentina claimed the South Orkney Islands. Though Argentina is questionable, the natives of the South Orkney Islands were greatly integrating into Ognia by the late 1970s. Though it would take a while, the native Fuegians of Tierra del Fuego would eventually gain greater recognition from Chile. While the Argentine claims will be annexed by Ognia after the war, Chile would allow the peaceful annexation of the island and the surrounding islands, which would lead to greater Chilean-Ognian relations. --NuclearVacuum 11:54, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Maps CW

 * I am pretty good with Central World. Just waiting for a response from Venezuela on the Japanese border of Kamchatka. But if you don't mind me asking, what exactly is the border between Chile and Argentina? I know you gave me a map, but that only takes me so far. What exactly is the border? How did Chile gain so much? --NuclearVacuum 18:34, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh no, I wasn't complaining about the border, I am simply curious about it. I actually like the idea, pretty interesting. I am not an expert on Latin America, and have only been reading about it lately, so it is kind of interesting to get a new feel on it. Nothing against the border, weirder ones have been proposed out of treaties. Also (if you don't mind me asking), why do you always say "greatings" at the end of your sentences? Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to criticize your English at all, but in English, it is used as a word for hello (hola), not as a form of thank you (gracias) or goodbye (adios). Also, it is spelled "greetings" (at least in American English). Please forgive me, I just want to help out a little, not trying to be mean or anything. Also, I just wanted to see if I still remember some Spanish myself. --NuclearVacuum 12:41, October 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Lolz. Sorry, I was afraid that you would be mad at me for bringing it up. Just wanted to correct you. Also, I never knew Spanish had a word like that? --NuclearVacuum 14:50, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Administrative Divisions
Ooh, very nice. I can understand it all quite well. Thank you very much. Also, Chile extends to include the Easter Islands? --NuclearVacuum 18:43, October 11, 2010 (UTC)




 * Well either way, I am very happy to get that. I am getting a better understanding of Chile. Also, I made an orthographic map of South America for this timeline, and have already made one for Chile. More to come. --NuclearVacuum 19:31, October 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Glad that you love it. I hope you don't mind, but I cleaned up the infobox of Chile, adding some information and cleaning up the code. Sorry, but I am OCD about that kind of thing. If you don't like the changes, I will revert them. --NuclearVacuum 19:50, October 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * De nada. XD --NuclearVacuum 19:57, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

FTBW templates
Thanks! I knew that was happening, but wasn't sure of what to do, so I was going to leave it for a while, but now I don't have to!

Tbguy1992 19:42, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Triunfa, España!
Hola, Katholico. Te gustaría ayudarme en mi nueva timeline, "Triunfa, España!"? Habla sobre un escenario en el cual la Unión Ibérica de 1580-1640 sobrevive. Fedelede 23:11, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Chile in FTBW wars
Well, the First Global War is NOT, repeat, NOT OTL First World War: it took place between 1858 and 1862, and was basically three wars that are classified as one. In Latin America, Argentina and Peru both attacked Chile, annexing territory, and making the Chilean's very bitter. When the Second Global War (OTL First World War) started in 1911, Chile was at first neutral, but joined after both Peru and Argentina were decisively defeated by 1914 (the war began in 1911, and ends in 1916), taking back all the land it lost, then some. I would compare it to France in OTL, as they were bitter loosing land (Alsace-Lorianne) in the Franco-Prussian War in 1870, and regained the land at the end of World War One.

The basic thing to remember is that the First Global war is not like our World War One. Does that make sense? Tbguy1992 21:31, October 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, thanks! I'm trying my best to not use the overused cliche's of Alternate History, such as Hitler coming to power in Germany as dictator, no matter what, and that the US always, always wins. Although the US wins sometimes, its not all the time. It's always great to hear that I'm writing different Alternate History than everyone else. Tbguy1992 01:11, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Re: CWo
Hello there. Sorry, my mind has been in other universes this week, so I haven't gotten around to it yet. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten. =D --NuclearVacuum 23:16, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Triunfa, España!
No lo he pensado del todo, aunque creo que la independencia sería mas tarde o nunca. Tal vez después de la separación de Italia, pues estaba pensando en la descolonización de el Medio Oriente (que yo pensaba que lo tendría Italia). Fedelede 19:44, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

No, no lo he decidido. Fedelede 21:06, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Muchas gracias por arreglar los templates, Katholico! Fedelede 00:35, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Pues también me podrías ayudar con las ideas para la TL. Tengo muy pocas ideas: Que el monarquismo sea mucho mas común en el mundo, especialmente el constitucional es la mas importante, si querías saber. Tenía una idea en la cual Fernando VII se vuelve el Rey de Cundinamarca (como una carta de los cundinamarqueses le había pedido), y que hubiera un Borbón en el trono del Imperio Mexicano. Pero no tengo muchas ideas para la geopolítica de el mundo tras el POD. Iberia-Italia sería el centro del mundo hasta mas o menos 1946, en el cual incluía mucho del mundo, y después perdería relevancia. Pero es básicamente todo lo que tengo! Fedelede 01:08, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Traduccion
During the first half of the twentieth century, the border disputes that arose between Argentina and Chile were resolved in a peaceful manner, thus promoting good diplomatic relations between both countries. However, the advent of the Cold War in Latin America after 1945, things changed radically. While both countries were part of the same American alliance against German and Japanese hegemonies, Argentina remained important diplomatic and commercial ties with the German Empire during the presidencies of Juan Domingo Peron, which brought several scrapes with the U.S. Chile also had critical attitude towards the German fascism by the Argentine government, which damage the relationship between the two nations. In the 60's, there were again disputes between Chile and Argentina over the sovereignty of several border areas in Patagonia, but direct negotiations to resolve them were unsuccessful, and the definition of a mediator not reached consensus. In this scenario, the German government saw an opportunity to break the unity of the American bloc, and this led to the European Community gave his public support for the territorial claims of Argentina. This fact provoked the indignation of Chile and the U.S., who sent a protest to the Assembly ON. Meanwhile, in Argentina itself, the government began a campaign to promote nationalist sentiment. Germany continued with its plan to destabilize sending military equipment and machinery to Argentina. The U.S. also did the same with Chile, but more limited and slow because of the serious fear of the administration of President Johnson to the war in America. In response, the Chilean government decided to seek other suppliers of arms, getting them unexpectedly in the Empire of Japan.

By the end of 1965, tensions between the two nations reached its peak, when the November 6 clash occurred between some Chilean police and armed Argentine contingent in the area called Laguna del Desierto, that ended in the death of Chilean Lieutenant Hernán Merino, after rejecting the Argentine police.This eventually trigger the conflict between Chile and Argentina.

After the incident at Laguna del Desierto, Chile's reaction to the police officer's death was directly to the Argentine government demanded explanations about the fact (considered by each side as an illegal incursion into the country) and a real commitment to want to solve disputes peacefully. However, the Argentine government decided to hold this event to start after the war. After months of preparation, Argentina declared war on Chile on January 16, 1966. VENEZUELA 14:47, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Grand Alliance name
I understand, but only two or three countries in the Grand Alliance are Spanish, namely Mexico, Chile and Columbia. Spain, Venezuela, Argentina, Peru and some other nations are part of the United Coalition, so Spanish is much more in use there. Also, if I listed the names of the alliance in every nation of the alliance, the article could become to long and repetitive, so I only choose the most important languages; English, French, Russian and German (because of Austria-Hungary). Not that the other languages are unimportant, but their is only so much room for everything, and I'm not planning on going on making novel-sized entries. I hope you understand. Tbguy1992 17:44, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * To me, not being a Spanish speaker (I have to use an online translator, but so far it hasn't failed me yet!), I think that Alianza Grande sounds better, as it seems more foreign and world encompassing than Gran Alianza. Just my personal oppinion.


 * By the way, what do you think about FTBW? I've been working on this story idea, with different names, since I first joined the Wikia over two years ago, but in its present form only started about nine months ago, so I'm wondering what other's think, as I have put a lot of time and research into it, and I would like some feedback on how to improve it! Thanks! Tbguy1992 04:03, November 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was wondering if you would like to expand the Chile article for me? My area of expertise is not in South America, so I would mostly be choosing random names and places etc, etc. to fill in the article later. However, if you would be so kind as to help, It would definitely be a lot better than I could ever make. I would let you have a free hand in virtually everything except foreign affairs and what is already written. And, although their will be gaps in the main story that I'm working on now, I'm pretty sure you could fill them in.

If you are interested, please let me know! I would really appreciate your help...

PS: Chile will be on the winning side of the Third Global War (OTL Second World War), and annexes territory from Argentina, Peru and Bolivia, and is allied with Brazil almost since independence. Tbguy1992 04:55, November 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, the Agreement of Bagota ensures that the Spanish-American colonies are independent. And yes, Bagota is the capital of Columbia as well, I just needed a city :P.


 * And thanks for agreeing to do this, it really helps me out!Tbguy1992 00:07, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

FTBW Chile
It looks really good! I will go over it later, just to make sure it fits in with the TL, but it looks good at the moment!

If you want, you can go ahead and do other South American countries to if you want, as I'm taking, basically, a short sabbatical with Alternate History at the moment: I'm still trying to work out some details, and mind is saying "Do something else for a while!", so when I can, I will expand the main TL so you can work on Chile more. All I ask is that you do not drastically change the main story arc: if you see something that doesn't add up, let me know, and I'll fix it as soon as possible.

Until later then, bueno adiós! Tbguy1992 04:40, November 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nah, don't worry about it...the Assembly of Chile was a placeholder till later anyway. AS long as it does not directly interfere with the main story, go ahead; that's my only rule. Tbguy1992 06:42, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

The Day the Red Fall
Asi es! son 3 bandos con lo aliados ganando la guerra. VENEZUELA 23:34, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Mapa de Europa
Cierto que el mapa es excelente? Lo conseguí de una página de mapas blancos en la Página 171 (link: http://alternatehistory.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=25312&page=171). No se si hay de otros continentes pero si se que hay unos pocos del mundo, aunque en mi opinion no son tan buenos. Fedelede 00:17, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Si, lo basé en mi mapa original de Rise of Roses :) . Dentro de la TL, se ve que es que los españoles, para contentar a los italianos que eran Protestantes, les dieron mucho territorio y así Italia se contentó políticamente y se quedó en Ibero-Italia. Fedelede 00:38, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Chile No Socialista
Hola Katholico! me gusto tu historia, quisiera saber por lo que vi, si tu estas con los gobiernos de la pink tide, la verdad yo los detesto, en especial porque vivo bajo el dominio de un dictador de facto que a tornado mi pais en una porqueria, tambien queria saber si puedo pasar Perez Jimenez's Venezuela a la wiki en español. saludos. VENEZUELA 16:01, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Nada me hizo pensar eso, solo queria saber, la verdad yo queria que cuando paso lo de Correa ase poco lo sacaran simplemente porque yo lo clasifico como titere d Chavez, de echo considero todo el Alba como titeres de Chavez, pienso que si chavez cae (espero q en 2012) el resto cae, ademas puedes creer donde esta Zelaya ahora? tiene un banco aqui en Caracas!!!!!!! >:( Saludos! VENEZUELA 19:48, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

PD: que t parece Perez Jimenez.....? tambien cuales crees que serian algunas diferencias internacionales. VENEZUELA 19:50, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Como Perez Jimenez cambiaria las elecciones de 1960 y la Guerra de Vietnam? VENEZUELA 22:41, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Hola Katholico, gracias por la proposicion pero estaba pensando como un gobierno diferente en chile cambiaria a Venezuela seria una copia del OTL. VENEZUELA 00:49, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Bueno hasta ahora estoy leyendo el timeline asi que dejame revisar a ver si encuentro algo que cambie mucho a mi patria encantadora y curiosa, por cierto q t parece Perez Jimenez`s Venezuela? lo has leido? quieres crear un articulo de chile? VENEZUELA 01:16, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Nations in FTBW
AS of this moment, their is no Uraguay (part of Brazil), Paraguay (Brazil and Argentina) or Ecuador (Peru). I personally am more of a "large nation" person, not much into a multitude of smaller nations: it means that more articles have to be created to further flesh out the timeline, which I would prefer not to do.

By the way, I'm stuck a bit on the history article from 1911-1942: I need to have more ideas to further add to the story, until ATL's World War Two outbreak, so I was wondering if you would happen to have any ideas. Thanks! Tbguy1992 01:35, December 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, for the moment, I think Europe is going to be somewhat peaceful. My plan was for a Spanish Civil War like event happening in Canada between the English and French speaking Canadians. Now India might have the start of a revolt, but with the National Socialists in power in Britain, they will dare not allow India to become independent.

And I haven't thought about an Olympics thing... man, I should really have considered that earlier >< Tbguy1992 04:08, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Historia Alternativa
It is the best of them all by far, lol. I kinda figured you were in charge, but couldnt find an admin list with google translate to make sure, lol.

Lordganon 02:14, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

Me gusta la wiki en español. Una de las historias que particularmente me gustó fue una de una confederación del Imperio Español. Fedelede 03:04, December 17, 2010 (UTC) Si, era Mancomunidad. Eh, Katholico, en la wiki de español todavía no tienen la plantilla de naciones? Porque si quieres puedo trasladar las plantillas :) --Fedelede 03:30, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ya he pasado varias plantillas. --Fedelede 03:56, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Gracias. En realidad, si estaba pensando en empezar una historia sobre el imperio mexicano en la wiki de español :) --Fedelede 04:07, December 17, 2010 (UTC) Pues sí... La guerra México-Americana es uno de los equivalentes a la Guerra Civil en México; Y también es uno de los eventos mas importantes de la historia latina. Tiene sentido ser de las historias mas usadas :) --Fedelede 04:24, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

FTBW Notes
Well, you caught me. When I make the nation articles (mostly placeholders at the moment), I copy and paste from previously made articles, then change the info (pictures, cities, etc. etc.), and I know sometimes I miss some. You caught one, so I would like to thank you for doing so! Tbguy1992 19:10, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

I have seen the work you are doing on the FTBW South American Articles, and all I can say is "whoa"! You are doing a lot better than I ever could with those articles, cause most of them would be left as minor articles that may or may not make sense. And yes, the Lima Incident was the spark for the First Latin American War (Rio de la Plata), and it was a place holder that may, or may not, have been changed later, so all I say is go ahead, and fix anything you may think needs to be fixed, South America related.

Please keep up the good work, and ¡Feliz Año Nuevo! my Chilean Friend! (my translating powers strikes again :P) Tbguy1992 03:53, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have to say that I think we are thinking along the same lines. Currently, at the moment the CSA will be divided, as I'm thinking Argentina will be like OTL Italy: Strong on the outside, but when confronted by a stronger power (this time Brazil, after an ill fated attempt at an invasion of Chile), will collapse. So Argentina will be occupied by Brazil, annexing a lot of land, and making a rump Argentina. Then Brazil will fight ATL Colombia, then help the US by launching an amphibious assault on the Gulf of Mexico coast of the Confederacy (cause Brazil will be along the lines of OTL US by this point, while the US is like the USSR). Germany and the UK attack France, and though the Emperor and Government are forced to take the fight to the Colonies, France is still strong enough (especially after Russia enters the war) to launch an attack on the home land with help from the Western Alliance (cause the CSA will have been defeated by this time.)


 * The cold War then is shaping up to be a three way conflict: France, which in this TL is like a Fascist USSR, the US and the "Democratic Coalition" (so Assiniboia, Mexico, Alyseka, Russia, etc. etc.) and Brazil and Japan on the last side. I think having a three way Cold War, with one side ultimately collapsing in the 1990's or so, leaving a two sided cold war for a lot longer might be interesting. What do you think? (and, just so you know, this is all an idea at the moment: this could be altered and changed later) Tbguy1992 06:14, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * You know, The idea of a united Peru and Bolivia is intriguing: say a South American Yugoslavia? And Chile will be on Brazil's side, like Canada to Brazil's USA. And at the moment, I'm thinking Colombia is either neutral or will remain so until toward the end of the war, mostly due to the age old rivalry between the three South American Nations. Tbguy1992 21:03, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK Katholico, I just have one thing I'm gonna have to ask: please, please, please do not touch Assiniboia: that is mine, as that is my home area, so I know what I want to do with it. That is the only thing I ask from you... I don;t ask for much, but please leave Assiniboia, and any articles associated with Assiniboia, please? Thanks, and sorry for this. Tbguy1992 05:23, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

That page that you brought mentioning the military dictatorships was made almost eight months ago, and I really didn;t do much research to verify everything: when it said that the generals were president, I assumed this meant that it was a military dictatorship. One thing you have to remember is that alternate history is different from actual history, so some liberties can be taken. Maybe it can still work, say that the military, even though elected peacefully, were the driving force behind the nation for years, and that they controlled who was actually nominated, and that, whoever it was, he had ties with the army to appease them, so as not to invite military coup's that plagued other nations. That is my guess on how to make sure its not contradictory. Tbguy1992 23:07, January 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Man, it seems like you know my timeline better than I do! Yeah, that would be true, but when I was typing it up, it still seemed somewhat imbalanced in favor of the "Axis" nations, but, then again, most of them will collapse before the war is over, so I guess your right. Thanks for pointing that out! Tbguy1992 23:20, January 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for the suggestions, and I will consider them. However, I'm not going into full detail discussing the war in the main articles I create, but when I get to the actual Third Global War article, that will be when I describe the war in detail. I'm just going to be painting broad stokes of what the war was like on the main history pages, then flesh it out in the article.


 * And Venezuela was always independent of Colombia (the name was changed in the 1860's, if I remember correctly, and was only named that way due to it also holding Panama). Tbguy1992 13:10, January 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess you caught me again. Originally, it was going to be that Venezuela was part of the Central American Republic, but my mind changed. This timeline changes so often (even for me: I had originally planned for a united Prussia and Sweden, but it just wouldn't have worked out in the end, so it disappeared, though the flag I made is still around somewhere I think...)


 * And thank you so much for looking back at the articles I made so long ago, because if I look over them now, I most likely will go over and not notice things like that. Please, keep up the good work! Tbguy1992 02:42, January 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * As for Grand Colombia, I had noticed somewhere that Colombia had been called Gran Colombia at one point, so I thought it might be used as a nickname or something alon gthose lines for Colombia at the time, which, having a short distance between the Pacific and the Atlantic, with the ability to ship goods across for less than would have been possible in either North or South America at the time, would have brought great wealth and an economic boom at the time, making the title "Grand Colombia" a term of endearment for the people. Tbguy1992 17:40, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good! And, if you don't mind, would you mind going through and making sure it's straightened out in the other parts of the TL, please and thanks? Tbguy1992 18:22, January 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I believe South America would join the war almost from the beginning, if maybe a few weeks or months later. Colombia would join Brazil in the war, but most likely it will be a while later. Colombia would use the time before they joined the war to strengthen its position as a link between the Atlantic and Pacific (the Panama Canal I have decided will not actually even be attempted until the 1950's, despite that it was attempted in the 1880's, and later in the 1920's, but their was constant fighting between the US and CSA, both of whom wanted to control it, but neither would ler the other do so. After the defeat of the Confederacy in the Third Global War, the Colombia finally got involved, as they decided to try to remain Neutral in the ATL Cold War (I'm hoping to think up a different name for it though, cus Cold War I think is too clichéd.)


 * I hope that made some sense, cus I can barely think straight at the moment, being sick and all. Tbguy1992 03:32, January 19, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Happy New Year!
Happy New Year! How have you been. I am so sorry, but my mind has been more focused on expanding and editing the New Union timeline, I haven't done much map making lately. But I haven't forgotten you or Fedelede. I promise to do mapping soon. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 03:44, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Good new
I have some good news. I am about 65% done with the atlas of Chile. It should be done within a few days. I just wanted to let you know. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:51, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

FTBW
(Alright, starting a new heading :p)

Anyway, yeah, the Tri-Powers works, though I think I'm going to replace War with something like Conflict, as their is no actual war between all three sides yet, and possibly not at all until one side collapses due to the pressure. I'm thinking the way it works is that two will always be at their throats, like say the US allies and the French Allies, while the Brazil Allies are persuaded and bribed by both sides to try to bring them into their camp over certain issues. An example will be when the ATL version of the Cuban Missile Crisis happens (not sure when it will be, but most likely in the 1960's). Tbguy1992 14:52, January 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Got ya in a scare, huh? Well, at the moment, the plan is that Venezuela will be divided apart... for about twenty years. Then Venezuelan freedom fighters will try to restore the nation, and it will become a version of the Vietnam War for Brazil and allies trying to prevent it from happening, but with some US and (mostly) French supplies, eventually the Venezuelan Freedom Forces will emerge triumphant. This will in Turn be followed by a Vietnam situation for the US (in Cuba, unless plans change) and in Scandinavia (which will be to the French Empire what Afghanistan was to the Soviet Union). The next thing I will also plan on doing is a version of OTL's Cuban Missile Crisis, only it will instead be simultaneously in Quebec (French Allied) and Ireland (US allied)... both plans were complete secrets but discovered about a week apart in the mid 1960's. How does that sound for Cold War Crisis's, huh? Tbguy1992 01:12, January 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, Venezuela will not be two separate countries. The entire nation will vanish from the map until after they gain their freedom in the 1970's or so. As for the Korean War, I'm thinking it might actually be in (dramatic drum roll) the UK. Yes, the UK. This is the reason: after the war, the UK was divided into Scotland (with American Support) and England (with French support), so it is divided. Now, I'm guessing that Churchill (who did not have office during the National Socialist era) will be the one who leads England, and manages to convince France to let him try to take on Scotland. Despite early success, the US send's forces with approval of ATL UN, and manages to hold their ground. But the larger population of England does not make it necessary for France to send many forces while the US (and later Russia) will send sizable forces which halt the attack. It then plays out from there: Scotland refuses to join England, while England always wants to unite their former land. A border with mines and defenses is placed in Central England, while both sides warily acknowledge the other's existence. What do you think? Tbguy1992 06:53, January 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * For India.... I have no idea yet. Most likely Gandhi will lead the revolt, though the area that is now Pakistan would have been annexed by the Persian Empire. Otherwise, I'm open to suggestions in India. Tbguy1992 14:48, January 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * That sounds good. I'm guessing the majority of the army will be from Japan, as they will be in China, while the French would be able to send some forces, but the US might be overstretched by this point to send anything. So It most likely will become a right-wing dictatorship like France and Japan, maybe with a new Mogul Emperor? and Gandhi becoming the first PM/Chancellor to said Emperor. Also, I;m thinking Gandhi should not be killed in ATL until the 1960's, at least. Tbguy1992 16:49, January 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lets just Chile has the island of big stone heads. Will that be good enough for ya? :p Tbguy1992 23:34, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

I know that some maritime possessions have been left out in the making of the maps, as in the beginning not that many Islands had been claimed by the Colonizing powers. However, I'm starting to rectify this by redoing many of the maps, with a new base ground template that will help me to more accurately display the world. An example of this is my new map on the French Trafalgar, British Waterloo (1940-1978) page. Some details in this map aren't as much as the previous one, with no major lakes and many Pacific Islands no longer are their, but it contained a map of the US States and Canadian Provinces, which really helped in accurately drawing the US, the two CSA's, Assiniboia, Quebec and Alyeska. I think I can live with it, though I might come back to edit it to show where Islands would be.

As you will notice, thus will show the world in the aftermath of the Third Great War, and I will soon come up with a new map showing the three sides of the ATL Cold war. Tbguy1992 04:53, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Articulo Venezuela

 * Hola Katholico perdon me equivoque de pagina. VENEZUELA 02:39, January 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hola Katholico, Tbuguy me dijo que te hablara sobre lo de Venezuela, ya que pienso que todo esto de Venezuela desapareciendo no sucederia, primero que nada aunque Venezuela se independiza en 1829 en la historia, y no se si hay Gran Colombia, los presidentes serian diferentes hasta Cipriano Castro pero antes de seguir, la Central American Republic fue como una gran colombia? porque Venezuela se hubiera separado con Jose Antonio Paez Venezuela se hubiera independizado y todo lo de Venezuela involucrada en estas guerras seria diferente, ademas Cipriano Castro hubiera echo la revolucion liberal restauradora en 1899 contra Ignacio Andrade, por lo que Juan Vicente Gomez le hubiera quitado el puesto a Castro cuando enfermo como en nuestro universo, esto hubiera echo que la generacion del 28 tambien saliera, y dominara el paise entre 1945 (con intermedio de dictadura entre 1948-1958) y 1999, y hubiera seguido la historia igual, por lo que Venezuela no estaria en ninguna de estas guerras, ademas si en la guerra de los 40s, en el caso de entrar se hubieran aliado a Brazil y Colombia, ya que no habia ningun presidente facista durante esa guerra en Venezuela, por eso es que Venezuela no seria separada, y por eso t escribo para arreglar esa parte de la historia, saludos. VENEZUELA 18:14, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

The map is completed ^_^


What do you think? It came out pretty good. If I got anything wrong or I misspelled anything, let me know and I will correct it. I don't want to add it to the main page, I thought you would love to do that. Hope you like it. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:45, January 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I am very happy that you like it. As for Bolivia and Peru, I didn't read anything about them uniting, or about Chile annexing the Falkland Islands. Are these new? I like the idea of a United Bolivia and Peru, but I think we should leave the Falkland Islands to Argentina. But than again, Argentina lost all that region. Anyway, let me know when they become canon, and I will upload a new map. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:38, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

¡Felicitationes!
Congratulations to you and the rest of the gang at Historia Alternativa. You have all been awarded the 2011 Stirling Award for Best Non-English Wiki in recognition of your vibrant sister community. If you'd like, this award may be presented on the front page, talk page or anywhere else that you wish on the spanish wiki. Though keep in mind, it is for the community and I am messaging you as a representative of Historia Alternativa. Red VS Blue 21:19, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Well, congratulations on the administratorship, Katholico. It's nice to know that you appreciate the award. You can consider it a gift from everyone in the English althistory wiki, a gift of recognition.

Regards to you too.

Red VS Blue 22:33, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Nasser of Arabia
I am sorry. I wrote about it here, but I got deleted it primarily because I feel it was an ASB timeline. I just came across the word, it means "." Pretty much it means to create a POD which is impossible. After years of trying to have it work out, I can't get it to. IMHO, the Arab world is too complex and diverse for a completely pan-Arab state. I couldn't figure out how to have the Arab monarchies agree to become republics, I couldn't figure out how to correctly divide the states, and as recent history shows, it might not have been successful for long. Recently, VENEZUELA made mention that Lebanon should not be part of this nation, as it was primarily made as an Arab Maronite state (not Islam). That, and recent events in Egypt, Tunisia, and other Arab states, it is too confusing for me to work out. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 19:37, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

TSPTF
Would you be interested in a position on the TSPTF, Kath? Lordganon 23:13, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Heh. Just accept the nomination on the request for user rights page when its made, and give reasons why you think you can do the job - in your case, a fair amount of it is your are committed to the wiki and know a fair amount about how to run one. Lordganon 07:04, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

You have now been nominated. Please accept the nomination, and why you'd like the position, at the appropriate section of Request for user rights

Lordganon 08:45, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Triunfa, España!
Si, lo de las categorías es un error. --Fedelede 00:40, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

Bolivia FTBW
That is sort of what I was thinking: it was going to parallel Italy in that time of history: joined the allies in World War One, got little in return, and became Fascist and joined Germany in WW2. That was my main intention all along, and I'm glad to see you noticed it to!

BTW: congrats on your Nomination to the TSPTF! Tbguy1992 06:51, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

ENIE
Thanks for moving the page. I don't know how to get the accent mark over the 'N'. Chicagoan 20:21, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Gran Colombia RA
Hello there. How have you been? I am not too sure how much you understand or are interested in Colombia and Gran Colombia, but you are the only active user I know who has expertise on South America. Since you just added a category to the page I created, can you tell me what you think about the idea? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 20:25, February 10, 2011 (UTC)




 * Thank you very much. I made a map of how I think the departments would look like. Along with the original three, the three republics of the Peru-Bolivia Confederation (North Peru, South Peru, and Bolivia) will join Colombia. Panama would become a department, and possible Acre would join, or it would be annexed by Brazil (I still need to study). Does this sound right? Do you have any suggestions? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 19:48, February 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm pretty sure Argentina and Chile would be the same. Since Bolivia and Peru would join Colombia, Chile would not be able to expand north. Maybe the little territory that Paraguay has would be annexed by Argentina. I am now thinking that Brazil would get Acre, and maybe Uruguay would either remain part of Brazil, or they would reannex it later. As from Guyana, It would have the similar story as that of the Mosquito Coast. With Britain loosing both Canadas, they would take more action to keep their interests in the Caribbean. It's still a work in progress. If you are interested, would you like to help out? Thank you again. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:42, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow... parts of Argentina wanted to become part of Chile? Cool. I like the sound of that. I was going to mention it, but I wasn't sure if it could be possible, but I was thinking that Chile could seek going eastward rather than north (similar to the Central World timeline). As for Argentina, I am a bit confused. How would a stalemate be interesting? You mean a new nation? Can you explain a little more? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:54, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

No, you explained it quite well. I really don't like the idea of two Argentinas, and I think that Argentina would be a united nation in TTL. That sounds a lot like how northern Brazil attempted to secede as the "Confederation of the Equator." But as for Chile, I really like that idea. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 22:48, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sounds interesting. Going south faster, I wonder how that would turn out. I thought of a weird idea, with Argentina preoccupied with their civil war, maybe Chile could take advantage and gain all of Pategonia. Just a thought, I have a feeling you will like the idea. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:10, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations
Congratulations, you are now a Lieutenant in the TSPTF. This allows you to showcase the TSPTF membership badge on your user page. Furthermore it gives you administrator powers on this wiki. I would like to spend sometime discussing those powers:


 * You should now notice a red button at the top of every article with the word "Delete". You can use this to delete articles, obviously. Use this power sparingly and always stay within the framework of the Deletion Policy. The policy itself was passed with little discussion, so if you have any suggestions or comments regarding it I would be glad to hear it.
 * You can also block users from editing. This can be done by clicking on the History page for articles or the Contributions tab on editor's user pages. Again, use this sparingly. This is our most destructive tool. We don't have a policy on this, but there is a general custom that has been followed: always assume good faith with edits (unless obviously vandalism), warn before blocking (try using the three strikes approach) and start with short block durations for first time offendors. Generally other administrators will not interfere with your decisions regarding blocks, as long as it appears fair on its face.  Permanent blocks, however, must be brought before the TSPTF as a whole and will only be confirmed if there is a 2/3 approval.
 * You will also notice a button on the top of every article that says "Protect". With this you can prevent certain people from editing a single article. The first level prevents anons and new users from editing an article. The second level limits editing only to administrators. Use this to prevent excessive vanadalism or to prevent edit wars between users.
 * In the History page of an article you will notice a new option called "rollback". This is an anti-vandalism tool. It allows you to quickly undo edits in case someone has made more than one edit to a page. By clicking rollback it will immediately revert the article to a time before the offending editor edited the page.
 * There are other obscure powers that are not used often. If you have any questions on those or the ones I mentioned above, feel free to ask me.

Finally if you go to the TSPTF page, you will notice that we have a list of Responsibilities. In reality, none of us have the time to devote to all of the duties that are expected of an administrator of the wiki. You are expected, however, to sign up for at least three responsibilities listed in that section. These are duties that you are agreeing to carry out to the best of your ability every time you are on this wiki. I'm hoping that by doing this the members of the TSPTF can efficiently share the work load of the wiki and gives us time for the real reason we are here.

Again, congratulations on being elected to the TSPTF and good luck. Mitro 15:25, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Chile
That is fine. I am positive someone from Chile can do a lot better job at the article than I can. Mitro 19:01, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

South America (Napoleon's World)
Hola amigo. Voy a empezar a escribir los articulos para el Sudamerica en mi TL, Napoleon's World. Hablo un poquito espanol pero no tengo mucho informacion de la historia, politica o cultura de Sudamerica y necesita ayuda. Tengo poquito informacion de la Republica de Gran Colombia, pero no se ya la informacion se correcto o "plausible" (no se le palabra en espanol). Puedes ayudarme?

Gracias

KingSweden 19:39, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Si, puedo hablar en espanol simplico, yo hablo un poquito de espanol a mi trabajo (todos de los otros trabajeros en la restaurante son mexicanos).

Si tu eres correcto, necesito ayuda. No se mucho de la historia de sudamerica, solomente comprendo la historia de Europa y Norte America. Que es la problema con los nombres de politicos Colombianos? Yo uso los nombres tipicos de mexicanos, pero ya puedes los nombres colombianos posiblamente eres diferentes (or spelled differently).

Para las partidos politicos, yo creo que la historia colombiano (y de todo el sudamerica) evolver diferente de en OTL, porque la relacion de los Estados Unidos y Francia es diferente, y Espana y Inglaterra es menos importante. Colombia, para exemplar, es un nacion muy grande (Gran Colombia) y un "world power" y la mejor pais en sudamerica. Por esta raizon, y porque la historia es diferente, los partidos nuevos existen en ATL. Eren usted familiar con mi TL, Napoleon's World? Y, mi otro pregunta - que es tus ideas para el reste de sudamerica? Esta un guerra en Brazil en 1978-1983 con los Estados Unidos y Colombia (similar a la guerra de Vietnam en OTL), pero no se mucho otro. Argentina existen, y Chile y Peru tiene la territoria de Boliva en OTL, pero no mucho otro.

KingSweden 00:22, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Pues que Argentina es en un alliancia con los Estados Unidos, porque invadieron Brasil en la Guerra Brasiliana. Por esta razon, es posible que Chile es un amigo a La Emperia Francia, porque los francianos no le gustan los argentinos. (Switching to English - however, I don't know if Chile and Brasil would necessarily be allies, they might just both be enemies of the Argentineans). Yo tengo un idea tambien - Pinochet no esta el Presidente en los 1970s, y Allende es un dictador en Chile? Y, posiblamente Peru es neutralo. Colombia es, por supuesto, un amigo mucho bien para los Estados Unidos, y esta en NATO.

KingSweden 02:51, February 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lee que Chile es comunisto en los 1980's en Napoleon's World en la misma articulo, ya es canon. Pero, no tengo un diferencia a esta enemigos con Argentina, porque es un enemigo tradicional, no?


 * KingSweden 03:01, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Letter Ñ
Katholico you had posted on my talk page earlier about how in spanish you have an accent mark over the 'n'. Well I have discovered how to add the accent mark. If you hit ctrl + v then you will get the ñ. Gracias por ayudarme! :-) Mi español no estan bueno y todavia estoy aprendiendo.

Chicagoan 01:46, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

Chile National Socialist Symbol
Yep, that looks good. The fist and star is the symbol of the National Socialist movement in the America's, though other symbols, like the German Swastika, the British "crown and scepter", are also going to be used. Do you think you might be able to try something like that for the CSA? It might have to be edited, but I don't have much time right now to do much. Thanks! Tbguy1992 02:16, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, It really doesn't matter, in my opinion. My idea originally was the it was going to be the Battle flag (the second option) in the canton (like the Stars on the US Flag), with the fist and star beside it. But, you do what you want, it was just an idea. Tbguy1992 04:45, March 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm starting to think that something else might have to be used than the hand/star combination. I'm just not sure what.... Tbguy1992 21:56, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Hello
Hello there. I am new here, and I trying to get to know more Altists.

P.S

I am also fluent in Spanish

The Bird that flies at Night (Send me a message) 21:19, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

ADH
Es algo como Rise of Roses, te acuerdas?

No, todavía no hay PODs definidos.Fed (talk) 02:57, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Revivir Central World
Hola Katholico, esta viendo Central World, y me di cuenta que iba muy bien hasta que quedo abandonada. Queria preguntarte si te gustaria revivirla? conmigo y otros usurarios como Lordganon o Fedelede. Saludos VENEZUELA 23:06, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Bien gracias, ya hable con Fedelede y tambien la va a revivir con nosotros, y la reviviremos despues de Semana Santa. Saludos VENEZUELA 23:22, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Por cierto recientemente e estado pensando, no crees que una replica de las revoluciones arabes podrian pasar en Lationamerica, en especial en 2012. Veras Evo perdio 70% de popularidad y en Venezuela hay elecciones el proximo ano, ademas que la asamblea ya tiene varios diputados opositores, es ovio que chavez hizo trampa en esas elecciones porque es una minoria opositora y se sabe que ganamos con 52% de los votos. Ademas la situacion que t digo ya sucedio una vez en Venezuela en 2002, te recomiendo que busques en youtube La Cadena (Parte 1 de 5) para que veas el dia que tumbamos a Chavez por 47 horas. La gente salio a protestar masivamente, el gobierno empezo a dispararles, la policia empezo a dispararle al gobierno, Chavez puso una cadena porque los medios mostraban todo, los medios dividieron la pantalla en dos, Chavez es arrestado, tratan de obligarlo a renunciar, el dice que solo firman si lo dejan salir con su familia del pais, no lo aceptan, un empresario se declara presidente, las fuerzas pro-chavez salen a marchar la policia los ataca, los militares pro-chavez toman el palacio, Chavez vuelve al poder, empieza un paro petrolero por varios meses, falla y termina. VENEZUELA 23:29, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Hetalia (Napoleon's World)
I saw you add to the Hetalia page. I want to ask you if ou want to contribute to it. You could add the personalities of the South American countries.

Yank 03:20, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

I did not like the List of Confederate States (Southern Victory)

I was the one how made the (Southern Victory)

Brazil
Near as I can figure, the caretaker is indeed HAD.

Sure, go ahead and do that for the president. Change the 2006 date in the History article to 2005 to match the president article for the election date, and add the one elected in 2009, your candidate, in both places.

Lordganon 08:29, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

It is indeed canon. Lordganon 16:41, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Go for it. Lordganon 17:15, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Colombia in RA
Hello, how have you been. I have been okay, to an extent.

I was only cleaning up my sandbox. The information on Colombia is still in the database, and in my head. No need to worry, I haven't given up. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 17:43, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

New List of Cardinals
Not likely. Same year, at best, though probably not even that. The date is largely up to the individual Pope, and the year is more so as needed for us. We've also got contact dates, etc. that would need to be worked around here. Lordganon 17:38, May 4, 2011 (UTC)

As I said in the post on the main DD page, there are differences. Namely, that the presence of the Vatican in Rio means more Cardinals for South America. I'm well aware of each and every case, and they were intentional. Lordganon 20:45, May 4, 2011 (UTC)

Uruguay
Sure! I just started it because Uruguay was one of the only nations not created, lol. PitaKang- (Talk | Contribs) 00:42, May 5, 2011 (UTC)

FTBW International Organization
Yeah, I kinda realized that as well. For one thing, I was thinking of calling it the League of Nations, then using UN symbols to represent it. However, I've been thinking about trying to rename it as well, but it has been difficult to find one that sounds good, but not too cheeky (like World Council or something....)

Any ideas you may have would be good, cus I'm only now starting to get out of my self-imposed hiatus from the Wikia, working more on FTBW and such.

Tbguy1992 00:17, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Return of the Kennedys
Thankyou for cleaning up my timeline, I have been busy. Alexanders 02:31, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

It is a Sociaology experiment, instead of a Regean Revolution, there is A New Deal II, which means a much more left wing America, this enables the rise of the Libertarian and the Green Parties Alexanders 03:05, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

I looked at your list of Presidents for Chile No Socialist, and I saw you made Regean President in the 90's he would not have become President however as was contrasting Alzhimers by the late 1980's

Suggestions


 * Bob Dole


 * Jack Kemp


 * Dan Quale


 * George H.W Bush


 * John Mccain

Alexanders 14:30, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Chile / Santiago
A war between Chile and Santiago? What did you have in mind? - Mister Sheen 23:26, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I haven't thought much about it, do you have any ideas? - Mister Sheen 00:32, June 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * If enough people in Chile had support for Santiago then it could happen; but otherwise I think Santiago's military might be too weak to go to war with Chile. - Mister Sheen 23:26, June 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, Chile has a much bigger population (and a much bigger military) than Santiago; so unless some Chilean people were on Santiago's side, I don't think a war could happen. - Mister Sheen 10:33, June 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I like both of those ideas, which one do you prefer? - Mister Sheen 10:31, June 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, what do you think the war should be called? - Mister Sheen 15:41, June 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't really like naming wars after the countries (eg. "Chilean-Santiagan War") because the name gets too long, but I like the names "South Pacific War" and "Spring War". From Chile's point of view it might be called the "Uprising of 1973" (or 1974), and from Santiago's point of view it might be called the "Chilean War". - Mister Sheen 00:59, July 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll start the article if you want, but it was your idea. One thing I have to ask: is the war in 1973 or 1974? - Mister Sheen 12:28, July 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've started the article :) Here it is: . - Mister Sheen 22:25, July 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, I will add to the article over the next few days. - Mister Sheen 15:58, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I've added some troop numbers for Santiago, but I'm not sure about the casualties. The Santiagan flagship is called the ARS Almirante Ibarra, but I don't know about the other ship names. - Mister Sheen 16:54, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the ship names, and nice work with the photographs! The Santiagan navy will probably have 6-8 ships, but will not send them all to fight in Chile. The casualties might be too high for a 5-month war, but we can change that. - Mister Sheen 23:16, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

OK, the Santiagan Navy will have 6 ships in 1974, but will only send 3-4 to fight. The war lasts about 110 days, so a third of the current casualties sounds about right. What do you think of the new casualty numbers? - Mister Sheen 10:07, September 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I like those ideas. You seem to have a good plan for the naval warfare, do you want to write it up? - Mister Sheen 23:58, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

The biggest battles seem to be: So should we start articles for these battles? - Mister Sheen 17:37, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * (including Puerto Montt, Valdivia & Osorno)
 * (rebels vs. Chilean military)
 * (naval battle)

Ok, nice :) Are these the right dates for the battles: Mister Sheen 15:46, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Occupation of Chiloé — February-April
 * Battle of Santiago — April
 * Liberation of Chiloé — April-May
 * Battle of the Chacao Channel — May

Personally I like the photograph of the MIR troops, but you can decide if you want. - Mister Sheen 22:38, October 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, the military part of the Department of National Intelligence is like the CIA. - Mister Sheen 23:20, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Reversing Edits by Anons
Glad to see someone besides me doing this, lol. As an fyi, mind, when you see it, feel free to ban them for a few days - make sure that they stop ;) Thought I'd drop the note lol Lordganon 05:53, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

xD Much obliged for doing that, Kath. But don't be afraid to block them for a few weeks next time too ^^ Lordganon 07:59, August 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your recent diligence on Abraham Lincoln (Two Americas). The anon was obviously trying to restore the 'honor' of the American president, conveniently forgetting that this is alternate history!  He seemed to like the fact that Lincoln survived the attempt on his life, but took issue with how I had him react. SouthWriter 20:16, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Brazilian Civil War
Ok, no problem. I've finished the article. :) - Eduardo Sellan Brazilian 22:51, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Allende
Eres correcto. Que sabes que es mas realistico? 1952 o 1965 para la revolucion socialista? Y es la revolucion muy rapido o multipos anos?

Yo sabe que Allende posiblamente morir, y Ernesto Platera es el proximo dictador de Chile, pero no para mucho tiempe (uno o dos anos).

KingSweden 00:59, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Ah oh well :/ Maybe you could suggest some people to succeed Platera? (Democratically)

KingSweden 02:10, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good and appropriate. Thanks!

KingSweden 03:14, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Re:States of Colombia (RA)
Greetings. I have been okay, you? Interesting idea. I have been saying I may divide Bolivia into two, but I never got around to it. I like this idea very much. I am currently not working on the RA timeline, but I will keep this in mind when I get back to it. I need to upload a rough map to show the borders of Colombia and its states. Thank you for the input ^_^ --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 00:57, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Winter Olympics
Where in Chile would be a good place to host the Winter Olympic Games? (I figure Chile is more mountainous and probably has better skiing than Argentina). Also, would that work with the traditional Olympic schedule? (Since the Southern Cone is in the southern Hemisphere, wouldn't the winter be during the summer months?)

KingSweden 02:03, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Alta Real (OTL La Paz) seemed to have a better climate and be located right up in the mountains, so I picked that as the location for the Winter Olympics.

KingSweden 03:36, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Colombia
Ideas are always good! I would probably sprinkle them in here and there throughout the list. I know I definetely don't have any Presidents outlined in the 1800's (pre-Iglesias), and I could probably throw real Colombians or Venezuelans in here and there throughout the TL.

Thanks!

KingSweden 03:32, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Muchos Gracias!!

KingSweden 00:30, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well is the Colombian Liberal party not left-wing in OTL?

KingSweden 22:00, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Guyana's in FTBW
In FTBW, the Guyana's are divided in three and are held by Britain, Spain and France before the Second Global War, and after the Third Global War, the French and Spanish sections are merged by France to create an overseas colony in South America, while the British held Guyana's is annexed by Brazil (and would later join Venezuela after they gain their independence.)

Hope this make's sense! And thanks for pointing stuff like this out! Tbguy1992 22:50, August 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Man, you sure pick out the hard ones for me to figure out :P


 * I think I will have to get an actual map of the Caribbean to help out with this one, as I have no idea what islands I actually put with whom. Once I get the time, I will make up a detailed map and give it to you so that should answer most questions


 * Until then, keep a running tally of questions, and I will do my best to answer them! Tbguy1992 04:21, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, now that I'm thinking about it again, I was thinking I was going to use the collapse of the Brazilian Bloc to allow Peru-Bolivia to break with their puppet masters in Brazil and realign with the Juneau Pact, say a military coup in 1979 as the Brazilian Civil War is ongoing? This would not mean that the confederation would break up, as the military leaders realize that Peru and Bolivia are stronger united than divided. what do you think? Tbguy1992 02:32, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

RE: BETTER CATEGORIES
I appreciate your assistance.

Young Zepol

Presidents and US Civil War
Hola, Katholico. My Spanish is weak, so forgive me if I don't try more than the greeting. :-)

Anyway, given the death of Zachary Taylor and the presumed loss of Texas and California, I would say that the next president would be Henry Clay. He had opposed the War and was an opponent to Polk's politics. He was greatly respected and took second place against Taylor in the 1948 convention. His politics, as the "Great Compromiser" kept the nation united a bit longer. Since his friend Henry Clay was the nominee of for president, Daniel Webster would not have turned down the vice presidency, so the ticket would have been Clay/Webster in 1848. Henry Clay died June 29, 1852, leaving Daniel Webster president in the midst of the presidential campaign. Since Webster was in Washington as Vice President, he probably would not have died from injuries from falling from his horse at his home in Massachusetts.

Since Henry Clay was old and sickly, it is doubtful that he would have been running for re-election, so in all likelihood Daniel Webster would have sought the nomination. The Whig convention was held just before Clay died (June 17-20), and Webster would have lost to Winfield Scott even as Filmore did. Therefore, the election of 1852 would have gone as it did in our time line. Webster would have retired in March of 1853, having served seven months as president. Those seven months, though, may have been enough to change the course of US history.

Already, though, we have Henry Clay in the place of Zachary Taylor. The "Compromise of 1850" would have had very little effect on the slavery debate, for none of the arguments for and against slavery in the new territories and states would have been made. Left with the 'unorganized territories of the plains west of Missouri, the discussion would have shifted to Kansas and areas northwest to the Oregon Territory. The Indian territory that became Oklahoma, would be open to slavery. Without Texas as a slave state and California as a free state, the balance would have been about the same. As president, Daniel Webster would have strongly upheld the Fugitive Slave Law even as he did as Secretary of State in our time line.

The Democratic convention of 1852 would have had a different outcome, with General Franklin Pierce not having the notoriety of having been a war hero against what in this time line was a victorious Mexican empire. Therefore, James Buchanan would become the candidate for the party. As a result, the Pennsylvanian would have become president, defeating Winfred Scott much as Pierce did in our time line. With a head start on seeking peace with the South, Buchanan would have come up against the campaign of the new Republican Party in 1856. The Republicans would not have John C. Fremont (explorer and hero in the "lost cause" against Mexico) and would have instead nominated Supreme Court Judge John McLean. Like Fremont in our time line McLean would have lost to Buchanan. Even with extra time, though, Buchanan would not have been able to keep the southern states from breaking away from the union.

Abraham Lincoln would have become president, but with such a large border with Mexico, and the support the south may have garnered from Mexico, the war may have gone far differently. With no California gold, the north would be hurt. If Mexico had been friendly with the south, and the gold had been discovered by Mexicans, that gold may have given the south an edge. Lincoln would have had to depend on support, not just neutrality, from Britain and France. With practically no war west of the Mississippi, the south could focus on defending it's borders and perhaps have won at least a cease fire. That would have depended, though, on the resolve of Lincoln to keep the nation united.

Long story made short: Henry Clay would serve three and a half years; Daniel Webster for six months; and James Buchanan for eight years. The Civil War would have been fought with Mexico perhaps an ally to the Confederacy. California and Texas would be lost to the North and the South respectively. No California gold for the North, so Lincoln would seek an alliance with Britain and France.

I hope this helps. SouthWriter 19:09, September 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hola. I am glad I could help. To answer your two questions:


 * (1) If Lincoln had not been elected, the Civil war may have been averted, at least for a time. Similarly, if he had been elected in 1856 (highly unlikely), the war may have begun then.


 * (2) It is highly unlikely, really. But with the loss of California gold, that is what it would have taken to adequately meet the economic pressure of the war. The south was still inferior militarily, but without the financial means, Lincoln may not have been able to muster the army or kept those that he did have. Of course, if the Mexican government was pro-union, then the CSA probably did not stand a chance any way. That, though, is up to you.


 * SouthWriter 22:57, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I am glad to help, Katholico. As regards to your proposal for a Lincoln loss in 1860, I would say that the loss would most likely be at the convention, where William Seward was favored going in. Seward had been overconfident and heeded advice to avoid exposure in the early campaign. As a result, he went to Europe for several months while Lincoln campaigned "just in case" Seward lost the nomination on the first ballot. So, if he had campaigned instead, he could have gotten the nomination. Some northern states may have voted for Stephen Douglas rather than Seward, making a victory possible for Southern Democrat John Breckinridge. If John Bell had lost to Breckinridge in Virgina, perhaps because support for Seward would have been stronger than what Lincoln got, the result might have been a southern Democrat in the White House in 1860. This would have caused a stir in the north, but the war may have been averted. I'll think a bit on that one. --SouthWriter 21:43, September 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think Lincoln would give up if he had lost to Seward. In fact, it might work out that the two would have been on the 1864 ticket instead. As you state, the tensions would continue to rise. You will have to work on the Mexico connection with this one. What would Breckinridge have done if Mexico threatened the western expansion? Would the Lincoln/Seward ticket have used the tensions to their advantage? With such a split in the electorate - south against north - and the irregularities of the election (assuming some of the states would have not had the Republican on the ticket (thus skewing the results), I'd say that the election of 1864 would be about as contentious as the 1860 one was in our time line. The same animosities would exist, and things may turn out just about the same, only delayed.


 * Long story made short. I'd say 1864, but perhaps 1868 if the 1864 elections are assured to be fairer based on complaints from the Republican Party after the close election of 1860. If this happens, then Lincoln would have to 'govern badly' in the eyes of the South (like occupying border states to prevent another war with Mexico), before the South would rebel against him in 1868. SouthWriter 05:26, September 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I didn't get right back to you. Anyway, The South would make the same threat, given the problems with his continued attempts to end slavery in the west and even in the south. I figure, once he gets in office, he will make an effort to make slavery a burden instead of a necessity. Tax laws might be changed and so on. After massive voter irregularities -- including refusing to have Lincoln on the ballot in four states -- Lincoln wins anyway and the states begin to leave the union even as they did in OTL. You might consider, though, what might have become of Robert E. Lee and U.S. Grant in the eight years that the war was avoided. The war might go much different if one or both of these men are missing. Add eight years to their lives, imagine how the border war with Mexico in the mid 1860's might have affected them. It might be interesting - even leading to 'two Americas' like the one I am a part administrator of. Just some thoughts. SouthWriter 03:55, September 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * If you do have two Americas after a short war, then a reunified America might come between the two World Wars, perhaps as a result of the increased threat to world peace seen in the expansion of Germany and Japan. They would be minor players in the first world war, allied to Mexico and Brazil, and see the wisdom in becoming a single nation to at least be somewhere near as respected in the world as their neighbors to the south.
 * As for Lincoln's second term, I'd say he would keep Seward. He dropped Hamlin for Johnson in OTL because Johnson had stayed in Washington instead of resigning in 1860, and then had served as military governor of occupied Tennessee (his home state). Hamlin had been a radical, and Lincoln had seen a problem with having him in place after the war. So, Seward is in, Hamlin never is in place, and Johnson would not have the same place in this history. SouthWriter 16:53, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks.
Thanks for catching the unauthorized changes on my Lincoln article. I rolled it back to the way I wrote it. SouthWriter 20:16, September 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Democratic Party had been a strong promoter of 'states rights' before the war, and the CSA despised the new Republican party of the North (in our time line) for obvious reasons. I tried to convince the creator of 'Two Americans' that there should be some other parties that would win sometimes. But he could not get away from our time line as far as the 'solid south' was concerned. There were other parties, we decided, but they weren't strong enough to get a president elected until the twentieth century. --SouthWriter 19:23, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Vice Presidents
I really had not thought to much about vice presidents. But here are my thoughts on the points you posted to my talk page:


 * According to the law at the time, the office of vice president was not filled in case of a vacancy. The Speaker of the House stood in line to be president if the president could not continue in office (dead or incapacitated!).
 * The Vice Presidency of King had been a political move to put Buchanan's best friend in the second spot when he lost the nomination to Pierce. They knew that King was deathly ill but honored him for his long-time service. With Buchanan the nominee, some other politician would have been pushed. I am not sure who, though. King was overwhelmingly supported in the convention. Going down the list, though, David Atchinson of Missouri looks like the most likely candidate. If Atchison is Vice President in Buchanan's first term (1853-1857), he may have even been able to do politically what he couldn't do by force in 1854 (that is, get Kansas to be a slave state).
 * Given the strong pro-slavery stance of Atchison (if you have him as VP), I am sure that choosing a more moderate candidate to replace him would have been prudent in 1856 (sort of like Lincoln switching to Johnson in OTL 1864). The choice of Breckenridge would set him in good stead to become president in 1864.
 * Since Davis was injured in the siege of Monterrey was slight, but having been carried away from the front lines, he would have succeeded, leading to his subsequent return to politics via appointment as Senator from Mississippi. If Buchanan had chosen him as Secretary of War, he probably would have kept the position in Buchanan's second term, leading all the way up to the 1960 election. I think that Breckenridge would be a fool not to pick him in this case. SouthWriter 17:25, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Adopting
Yeah, you still have to ask. If no answer in a week, ask on the timeline. Three days after that, its yours. Lordganon 02:50, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Ideology in Brazil (FTBW)
Well, before the Brazilian collapse after the Venezuelan War, Brazil and her allies really had no fixed ideology. They were almost solely dictatorships, but the majority were not Sorelist. However, after the end of the Venezuelan War, Brazil will become a Sorelist Dictatorship. I believe I had described the changes here, just didn't go into much detail.

Also, I would like to take this time to thank you a lot for helping me with FTBW, and all the work that you have put in. It means a lot to me, and I will be forever grateful. In return, I will gladly help you in any of your TL's if you need it! Tbguy1992 15:05, September 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm glad that I was able to convince you to continue with your timelines! I only know English, unfortunately, so I won't be able to contribute directly to the Spanish AltHistory Wikia, but I will gladly help you with any questions you may have regarding North American or European history. Tbguy1992 23:19, September 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, the Franco-Prussian War might have not been the end of the Second French Empire. The Franco-Prussian War was almost defiantly going to be a Prussian victory, no matter what: despite French technological superiority and overconfidence, the Germans had newer tactics and ideas, as well as the deadly Krupp steel cannons. The French generals were almost all appointed for political reasons, not battle smarts or merit.


 * In my opinion, with Napoleon III leading from the front, then surrendering, his army at the Battle of Sedan spelled the end of his rule. So, I think that by simply having him not take personal command of his armies, he would have been able to continue to hold his position as Emperor. Therefore, I would say for a way to make it happen, say that, though he wanted to go to the front, he was convinced by advisers to remain in Paris. Therefore, a French General would then have surrendered, and then Napoleon III could then ask Prussia for peace. The German armies wouldn't have to march on Paris and force the populace to withstand the Siege, and, even if Napoleon had to give up Alsace-Lorraine, he would still be in charge and able to finish the reforms he started in the later 1860's (he was moving toward a more open and free society: loosening censorship and opening the political system.) The failure of the French Army would allow him to clean it out, retire old generals and get newer generals in their place, allowing them to reclaim the "lost lands."


 * Also, not to sound like a nitpicky person, I believe that having wars between two countries so soon (in your case, five years) is a bit too soon. I think 10-12 years minimum, or else a few months, at most two years later after the end of one war is best. (Examples for the first one would be the First Gulf War against Iraq in 1990, then the 2003 Invasion which is over 12 years later. For the later option, one would be Finland after the Winter War with the Soviet Union in 1939-1940 then their cooperation with Nazi Germany from 1941-1945.) Of course, their have been instances were it does happen. I just feel like it is used to often in Alternate History and that, and I think at least a generation should pass before another war (15-30 years). Its just my opinion, but I feel very strongly on that. Tbguy1992 06:20, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Taking into account your idea with Lincoln being elected in 1864 instead of four years sooner, then having to deal with Mexico then the Civil War, I would say Russia selling Alaska to the US is near nigh impossible. After two wars that could cripple the USA for years after (even if the South wins or not), buying Alaska would not be even considered. Also, Russia would not sell to Britain, as they were both very confrontational at the time (OTL, but I would I be wrong in assuming that still might be the case ATL?), almost going to war over Central Asia multiple times from the 1850's until 1907 when they signed the Entente and effectively became allies. Therefore, I would say that, barring any wars that could change control with Alaska that it would remain Russian, in my opinion, from what you are describing. If you want to make both Russia and Britain allies at the time (again, highly unlikely due to Russian desires to reach the Indian Ocean, and British desire to protect India), then this can be changed.

For Canada, it is almost imperative that sometime before 1900 that it is Confederated into a Dominion of the British Empire. The British had multiple reasons to encourage the Canadians to do so: high defense costs against American expansionism that could be shouldered by an independent Canada, attempts to build railways that nearly bankrupted the individual colonies and, once again going to American "Manifest Destiny", the need to present a strong, united front to the threats of the US. It would be easy for me to go into the history of Canada now, but any kick glance at a Wikipedia article (English or Spanish, I'm sure) should resolve the issue and help you plan out how exactly it would happen. Tbguy1992 23:49, September 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * It is difficult to tell, but I would say not really. France would most likely divert a lot of attention to colonization to try to bolster her strength against a German Empire, under Napoleon III or not. If their is changes, I believe it will be just simply a difference in who gets what colony/area. France would have a strong foothold in North Africa, and Britain in Egypt and South Africa even before the POD of your timeline. The rest, frankly, is up for grabs by whoever could.


 * It will be important, however, if you decide Otto von Bismark will be Chancellor of Germany until at least 1891 as in OTL: he was the one that pushed for the unification of Germany into a single state, and, after achieving that, wanted to keep France isolated and Russia on good terms with Germany. He is not a colonialist, and the German territories were mostly just to silence those that wanted them at home; Germany, therefore, got some of the colonies that the rest of the Great Powers did not want. So, depending on what you do with Bismark, it will effect the course of later 19th century diplomacy (not to say other people are also important, but he was the premiere statesman of his day, managing to keep "Deutschland uber Alles" with shrewd diplomacy and back deals). If no one else in Europe in this time, Bismark is a, if not the, most pivotal figure of the time. Just keep that in mind Tbguy1992 02:48, September 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for still reading my TL! Actually, it was correct: I meant to say that, the war having started in 1858, France and her allies had almost won the war before 1860. However, due to things I was going to be going into detail later, Britain and Prussia were able to ultimately gain the upper hand and win the war in 1862. Tbguy1992 14:15, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I would have to say that does sound very unrealistic. Spain, since they held the various Latin American countries until the bitter end would not exactly be welcomed by them, even thirty-forty years later. Also, the US was very good friends with Chile and Brazil OTL, mostly due to their strength and protection. Plus, Spain most likely couldn't be bought over, no matter how hard they would try: they were already on their way to "has been" power, and couldn't afford to get into a war at the time due to political crisis at home.

Mexico might have been able to win the war by themselves... had they had different generals, a stable government to pay the soldiers and what not. Frankly, I believe the Mexican-American War was a forgone conclusion: American ingenuity and better leadership carried the day. However, Mexico could have won had they decided to let disease and exhaustion cripple the much smaller American armies instead of fighting them every chance they had (almost all of them to their dismay.)

I'm not an expert on the Mexican-American War, so maybe somebody like SouthWriter might be better to ask, I don't know. That is just my opinion on it. Tbguy1992 04:38, September 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, Argentina was mostly a Secondary power, though could almost be considered a "Great Power by courtesy" before the Second Global War, much like Italy was after its unification OTL. After the Second Global War though, not even that would apply. Argentina would be a secondary power, though a highly influential one, especially as the home to National Socialism that would be adopted by Germany, Britain, China, the CSA and other nations. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 04:39, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Bazil (Aztec Empire)
Claro haz lo que sea necesario para que quede bien la pagina pero que quede ad oc a la TL..... gracias :) --Ed9306 00:03, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Patricia Janiot (Kennedy)
Thanks for catching that. What do you think about my choice? Unfortunately I had to 'kill off' her husband, but that was easy since there was the conflict over Panama in the ALT. I had figured JFK for the lady's man, but also wanted him with someone about his own age. I wanted him in the US Virgin Islands and looked up the Miss World contestants for Miss World 1984 (contest in 1983, finals in December in London). In the ALT the finals didn't happen, of course. I first looked for anything about Miss US Virgin Islands, but only found her name. But there was a link to Patricia janiot, and she turned out to be an excellent choice! SouthWriter 03:58, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Pan-Eurasian or European
The original idea is that it would have been the Pan-Eurasian, meaning both Europe and Asia, which would encompass both France and Japan. However, later I decided that maybe just a simple Europe based alliance is easier, with the other "allies" being associated with the EDA. However, I might just be changing the name altogether, I don't know yet. Tbguy1992 03:12, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Brazil (Aztec Empire)
hey hasta ahora muy bien con Brazil (Aztec Empire) pro el mapa no es el mismo de america en esta TL ..... guiate por el que ya esta por fa :) y pues la idea original era que los incas ayudaran con armas y asi para lograr la independencia, ademas de ser los primeros en reconocer su independencia; esto por que los incas querian un aliado grande (despues de haber perdido a los aztecas como amigos), y asi formando un semi-bloque Inca-Brazil y Aztecas-EUA. Cualquier cosa ahí me avisas. GRAX POR AYUDARME A TERMINAR ESTE ARTICULO =D --Ed9306 20:29, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Sudamérica en TE
Sí, eso tiene bastante sentido. Mi idea principal era que los federalistas predominan en la Gran Colombia y en Perú, pero luego durante la segunda mitad del siglo XIX en una de las muchas guerras civiles el Valle del Cauca declara su independencia (creo que Joaquín Mosquera hasta hizo eso en la Guerra de los Mil Días en Colombia) y luego otras regiones (la Antioquia esclavista que cree que sostiene al país; lo mismo con Cartagena) la siguen, finalmente desmantelando a Colombia y a Perú. Brasil simplemente se independiza de una forma violenta y termina balcanizada. Los movimientos independentistas de México son exitosos. Ya que lo pensé, decidí que las minorías italianas y germanas, que son mucho mayores que en NLT porque Italia es protestante (los católicos escapan de las regiones mas protestantes de Italia, y llegan a las Américas) y Alemania es católica (lo mismo, a la inversa) simplemente van a mezclarse con los hispanos y portugueses para formar culturas diferentes a las de NLT. Sobre Patagonia, tal vez traiga al Reino de la Araucanía y Patagonia e impido que Chile y Argentina se expandan hacia él.

Finalmente, discúlpame por no poder traducirte los artículos; después de algo de experiencia en otras páginas, me di cuenta de que soy terrible para traducir, jeje. Fed (talk) 02:25, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

La idea es muy buena. Gracias. Fed (talk) 21:13, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Hola; si, claro, por favor dale permiso de editar la línea del tiempo. Me aburrí con ella cuando me dí cuenta lo trillada que estaba la idea, jeje. Fed (talk) 02:59, October 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Estás hablando de Presidente Portales, cierto? Si si es eso, entonces no estaría seguro, porque Santa Anna está muy bien dependiendo de cual fue su función en la guerra contra Estados Unidos y Texas durante su mandato, y como acabó la guerra (viendo tu mapa, me imagino que le fue bastante bien a México, xD). Si le fue bien, Santa Anna podría haber continuado su gobierno bastante bien a través del pueblo mexicano hasta que los mexicanos u los extranjeros se daran cuenta de que Santa Anna era mas o menos un dictador, y lo echaran. :P. Si le fue mal, probablemente a mitad de la guerra y establecieran una república parlamentaria o algo parecido al gobierno moderno. Colombia, al mismo tiempo, hubiera podido caer bajo el gobierno de Mosquera (no es Joaquín, es Tomas Cipriano :P) en un gobierno federal y liberal o una coalición similar al Frente Nacional (presidente liberal, presidente conservador se alternan de a turno) y detener la guerra civil; Panamá hubiera dejado de ser pro-independentista tal vez, y, al caer bajo influencia chilena o mexicana, hubiera podido mantenerse en cierta estabilidad. No estoy muy bien sobre Latinoamérica después de las independencias, jeje, y se poco incluso de Colombia, pero esto es hasta cierto punto lo que veo mas probable. Fed (talk) 03:45, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Me gusta la idea. Santa Anna al corto plazo, y al ganar la guerra, tendría suficiente prestigio y poder para mantenerse.

Sobre el mapa, te tengo una pregunta; cual es el estado al oeste de México? Es una mega República de California o parte de Alaska o Norteamérica? Fed (talk) 04:27, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

No veo esa parte muy plausible que digamos... No creo que México hubiera aceptado seceder tanto territorio: y menos aún que no lo hubiera reclamado después del descubrimiento de oro en Sonoma. Tal vez unas bases militares en California del Sur (tal vez las areas de Los Ángeles y San Francisco por su posición estratégica?) tendrían mas sentido. Fed (talk) 19:45, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ya te expliqué? No veo mi respuesta aquí, jeje... Perdón por la demora. :P Básicamente, Mosquera, ex conservador y ahora liberal, inició una revuelta contra el estado conservador que dominaba Colombia en la época a través de los estados de Valle del Cauca, Tolima y Santander, que logró tomar el control sobre el gobierno colombiano en Bogotá y establecer los Estados Unidos de Colombia (creo que se llamaba así). En TE, Mosquera trata de crear su propio estado independiente liberal, sabiendo que en Colombia no duraría mucho (Rafael Núñez, escritor de nuestra previa constitución colombiana, era un conservador acérrimo y deshizo los Estados Unidos) gracias a los muchos estados de mayoría conservadoras.

El Canal de Panamá no tiene mucho que ver con esto. Básicamente, desde mucho que se había planeado un canal; los españoles y escoceses vieron en eso una gran oportunidad para cortar el largo y peligroso camino hasta India a través de los cabos de Magallanes y Buena Esperanza.

Tras la Guerra México-Americana y el descubrimiento de oro en California, los estadounidenses trataron de encontrar una forma para hacer la vía a California desde la Costa Este más fácil: Theodore Roosevelt finalmente vio su ocasión en la Guerra de los Mil Días, una guerra civil que devastó a Colombia. Apoyó movimientos de independencia panameña en el noroeste de Colombia y finalmente, tras la independencia de Panamá, inició construcción del canal.

Hasta ahí es donde entiendo; no se mucho más sobre el tema. Y perdón por los errores ortográficos; estoy bastante cansado, jeje. (No debería estar en la wiki tan tarde en la noche... :P) Fed (talk) 04:21, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, claro. Simplemente quería decir que Mosquera hubiera llegado al poder, y creado un sistema en el cual se alternara el gobierno con los conservadores para contentarlos. Esto le traería estabilidad para el gobierno, y, tras pedir ayuda de Chile o México, pacificar a los rebeldes panameños, por ende manteniendo cierto control sobre el Canal eventualmente.

También, no hay problema con la hora; lo mas probable es que no me pueda dormir por un tiempo... xD Fed (talk) 05:52, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

La idea tiene bastante sentido, y es una propuesta muy interesante. Fed (talk) 06:24, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Si, claro que te ayudo cuando necesités historia de la región.

Te tengo una pregunta sobre Presidente Portales: por qué la Confederación Argentina tiene las fronteras tan estiradas en territorio rioplatense en el mapa? Es una pregunta muy básica, pero aun así he tenido la duda por un tiempo... :P Fed (talk) 06:58, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Chile No Socialista
First of all: congrats on 4000 edits!

Anyway, back to your question: if you want to have Ted Kennedy elected in 1980, be prepared to possibly move him out of the White House in 1984, or have no possibility of a Democrat after him in 1988. I say this because, even if Kennedy does manage to win, the rise of the Neo-Liberalism movement (Ronald Reagan, Margret Thatcher, Canadian PM Brian Mulroney), and the backlash against the Rooseveltean "New Deal" and Civil Rights Democrats, will only be delayed, but not averted. The need to stand up to the Soviet Union, and put a stop to the so-called "socialist" agenda of the Democrats of the 1970's and 1980's will eventually lead the Republicans to victory by the end of the decade. Though not much may be done to wind back these changes, and a Democrat resurgence will take place after, you have to keep in mind that the conservative ideology of the 1980's is just to strong to ignore, but they will in turn be turned out for Clinton era Liberalism (like Tony Blair in the UK and Jean Chretien in Canada after Thatcher and Mulroney, respectively).

The thing to remember for American politics (and Canadian, as well as even British to an extension) is that the right wing party will eventually take over for the left wing party, but they will in turn be turned out for a new, re-branded right wing, and so on and so forth. Like in recent years: George W. Bush Neo-Conservative movement replaced Clinton's "Third Way", which in turn was replaced by Obama and his "Change We Can Believe In," and has been under siege by the uber-right wing Tea Party Movement. As you can see, American politics is a back and forth game, only with each side re-branding itself and attacking the other side to get into the White House and Congress by any means necessary. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 04:42, October 12, 2011 (UTC)