Talk:Ware Shoals (1983: Doomsday)/Archive 1

notes copied from the Piedmont Republic (1983: Doomsday) talk page.

Ware Shoals SC/notes and such pt1
I am from this area, ware shoals (I corrected the spelling on the page) if I can help in anyway with background on people and the surrounding aera then le me know. I would be glad to help. Also I've got pics of the area.Wingman1 06:24, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, Wingman. Good to see someone from South Carolina on board. Thanks for the offer to help. If you could find some history of the area -- mayors, councilmen, state legislatures, especially those around in September of 1983 -- it would be greatly appreciated. My scenario is mostly based on Greenville, Clemson, and Spartanburg because those are the areas I've lived among for the past 33 years. If you can get me some pictures (just insert them on this talk page), we can use them to illustrate a page about Ware Shoals and surrounding area. I have set the area up to be "ruled" by city blocks mostly at odds with each other, but survivors nonetheless. I'm thinking a decade of isolation has made them wary of outsiders. SouthWriter 17:27, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Here is a pic of the powerhouse before it was repainted.Wingman118:10, March 18, 2010 (UTC) Just upstream from there, and the powerhouse and dam have been in operation since the 1920's.

I am thinking that protecting and maintaining these would be a priority for the locals.Wingman1 18:41, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional picture. I had gone to Google Earth and surmised that this was probably a power station related to a hydro-electric power plant formed by what looked to be a fork formed at the waterfall. I am going to have to revise my story of the down stream exploration to account for both the waterfall (they could not navigate over it) and a hydro-electric facility (maintained or not). SouthWriter 21:47, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

(pic's moved below)Wingman1 17:37, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

I can see how the dam looks like a waterfall, it diverts enough water into a small canal to power the hydro-electric plant. All from the late 1800's to early 1900's. and as of 1983 other than routine maintenance were pretty much as constructed.Wingman1 23:48, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see how this dam would be fully functional, sending electricity to the powerhouse without any electronics. However, it is in the powerhouse that the electricity is regulated and sent in controlled current to the households and businesses of Ware Shoals. It is those electronic switches and regulators that would have to be fixed.

I can imagine that there are other such plants in the upstate. I seem to remember mention of such when I visited the "World of Energy" at the Oconee Nuclear Station. It seems that getting back into the twentieth century may not have taken as long as the original editors of this time line imagined. However, old style regulators may be hard to restore; so many places - like the upstate - might be stuck using battery power until they can get components from Mexico and South America.

''Something, though, would probably be worked out in the mean time for places with hydro-electric facilities. ''i like this idea for WS.Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

I will revise the trip down the Saluda to begin below this dam, though. Perhaps I will move the fiefdoms into downtown Greenwood. SouthWriter 00:47, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

(pic's moved below)Wingman1 17:37, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Ware Shoals RR

This little line was built to serve a fabric mill in Ware Shoals, SC, in the early 1960s. For motive power they purchased a 44 Ton locomotive built by General Electric in December, 1943, #18159, as Chattanooga Traction Co. 3. When the CT was merged into the Southern Ry, it was renumbered 1955. It is apparent that there were two paint schemes during the life of the WS.

In 1985, the line was abandoned, and the locomotive was sold to Republic Locomotive Works. i still think this would be a good idea for WS, i a not sure of thier location on DD.Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Wingman1 09:26, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

(pic's moved below)Wingman1 17:37, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

'''i am looking for info on the local national gaurd unit in ware shaols, ( a com unit.) i am thinking that they would mabe merge with or back up the local police force. with the main job of makeing the town look like less of a target.'''

'''Rigel Mill, i am not sure if it was still open at that time, it was not shut down till 1985 OTL so it still was intact. (i got an idea that it's destructon by fire, due to an electrical malfunction, but what pushes them to join the Piedmont Republic.)'''

as far as leaders Mayor, town council and such i just got what is in the section below this one.

here is what i see happening on day one. (all going on at once)

attack warning given,

roads closed and blocked by some means. only resdents alowed in. local NG unit musters,(weapons issued) and aids in keeping order with police force. people in both, will remain in Police uniforms.

~ maybe a short sharp fight somwhere with some deaths shocking the locals. leading to the Keep our Heads down idea, althow some locals disagree, with the plan~

ware shoals churches, fill as folks gather and pray, and wait for news.

My uncle Glenn McKee was a Decon at the Ware Shoals Pentecostal Holiness Church at that time (i think) and i can see him talke a Leadership role in the Defence and/or planing for the DD aftermath.

family,aiunt and uncles and such lived close together as in some cases next door. (in my case i could look out my auint and uncle's back door and see 3 houses with my kin folk) - brings in the clannish stuff in the page. the other comeing from the town keeping it's colective head down.

this is all the rough draft notes i have right now. i will expand and update this section in the future.

thanks for the help South. Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Public Officials/Notes pt2
I am working on the pic's of the people, mayors and such. (moved pic below)Wingman1 17:37, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Mayor at 1983: Manly Balentine, mayor of ware shoals (no pic).

State legislature (not sure when first elected) at 1983: Marion P. Carnell (pic included) Wingman1 18:41, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Check Google, for more, and Google Earth is good for a overview. And one more thing, the mill in town was still open in 1983 and the town had a rail link to the mill. If this info helps or if I could be of further assistance, let me know.Wingman1 20:18, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Google and I are good friends, and Google earth is my constant companion. This time line assumes that the electronics in modern power plants (that is, printed circuits, transistors, etc.) were put out with an electromagnetic pulse. Due to this, all electricity and many vehicles were out of service as of September 25, 1983. They would have had to been reconstructed without the use of electronic components to be used again. This process would have begun immediately after dealing with thousands of refugees that came up from Columbia and Augusta. The chaos that ensued caused a great disruption in society for years. I am assuming that engineers and engineering students at Clemson would have taken the better part of five years getting the upstate back into the twentieth century. --SouthWriter 21:47, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * the ones here would be more resistant to the EMP because they are older, if the is enough of the support persons and the know how surviving.Wingman1 23:33, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * This note should be in the above section (sorry, I inserted a "section" indicator last time I was on). However, I addressed this above -- the generation of power must be regulated at the powerhouse, which would most likely contain modern electronic components. SouthWriter 00:52, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * - sorry bout that! love what ya have done for my hometown :) i will be looking for more local politicians and, influential persons from the Ware Shoals aera. ( i am enjoying this! this is fun!)Wingman1 05:02, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Notes pt 3
love the new sections here.Wingman1 03:58, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I aim to please. But throw in your two cents, man, we're neighbors. How about some action down among the fiefdoms of Ware Shoals? Neighborhood rumbles, kingdom building - survival of the fittest, you know? Cause a ruckus. Or perhaps, get tired of the struggle and migrate to the Republic of Piedmont (before 1/1/1). This timeline is not "live" just yet, so if I haven't mentioned it, you can fit it it). Or cause a ruckus on the southern border any time in the past decade of heightened security! Some of the fiefdom chiefs of Ware Shoals might be mistaken for Taccoans! SouthWriter 04:16, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking that the idea of fiefdoms was being a way of making Ware Shoals less of a target, this giving them time to get on their feet, if the bad guys think you do not have anything worth stealing they leave you alone?

maybe a sort of uneasy peace in the area, maybe a sort of neutral area that nobody is much interested in. till the Piedmont Republic moves in, say late 1990's?

maybe a defense force built from the local P.D, and the local army national guard unit?

(I can see them actually doing something along those lines:Wingman1 05:29, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

'link here. )'

'was just looking for this link. lol!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)'


 * Units 


 * HHC likely lost on DD,


 * Alpha Company - Abbeville likely lost on DD,


 * Bravo Company - W. Columbia likey lost on DD,


 * Charlie Company - Myrtle Beach likely lost DD,


 * Delta Company - Hodges armory located across the road from High School in Ware Shoals.Wingman1 05:29, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

'''Wouldn't some problems with an outlaw or bandit or two dealt with harshly discourage the "worst" of that sort of thing? i can see this.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)'''

How do you feel about a ware shoals page on here?Wingman1 05:06, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I say go with it. Let's assume a cache of shielded components in a secured position somewhere in Greenwood county. The fiefdoms are at least a more or less peaceful way of dealing with the crisis, and without communications for years could have been expected.   yes!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * The local police and Guardsmen should be able to work well under the civilian direction of the Ware Shoals mayor's office. yes!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * I figure this defense force would have been working all along covertly in the peace keeping efforts in Anderson - and especially in the ongoing "warm war" with Taccoa. How else could the Republic develop television years before contact with the "advanced" civilizations of the southern hemisphere? SouthWriter 14:28, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * real life is being a pain in the rear end right now. my computer has died and i am on someone elses. : (


 * between that and work, i realy do not have much time, and when i will get time i can't say. (gotta love McDolands! lol! )


 * i am kinda catching my internet as i can, till i get a new computer. but i love the ideas you have just gave me.


 * i just hope my "talents" as a "writer" can do them justice! LoL!Wingman1 18:33, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * When you get time, jot down the ideas the old fashioned way. And then, when you get a chance you can run them by me. I'll be glad to guide you through the process of putting those ideas into a story. SouthWriter 21:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 *  just now rembered this section from before when we tossed around this idea before.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC) 

give me a day or 3 and i might have somes stuff to for review.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, almost two years and we're still at it! I look forward to your ideas. I am not sure if a separate "Ware Shoals (1983: Doomsday)" article will work, but a section on a "History of Piedmont" article might be good. I really should have created one of those when the history section got so large. SouthWriter (talk) 16:27, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * work is going to have me snowed under for a bit i might have somethis for you in about a week. Wingman1 06:10, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * added a line and section to the page. i will post any new stuff on the talk page first so you can review it first.Wingman1 19:21, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * I removed the section heading and replaced the words "Ware Shoals" with the sentence you added. I put the town's name in bold print and we can link it to a section on the History page when I created it. I have projects I need to work on before that, but I'll get to it some time. :-(


 * Anyway, thanks for the interest in improving the article. SouthWriter (talk) 20:27, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * no problem, i will do more after latter.Wingman1 20:35, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * location of the The water treatment plant for WS. is more or less inside the town borders. name of street underlined.(in pic)


 * high school location circled in red,Wingman1 20:57, June 8, 2012 (UTC)Untitled_xx.png

i am thinking an lookout post some where to the left, (on the pic). would be a spot for a lookout post.Wingman1 10:40, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

still putting together my notes.Wingman1 11:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

i am starting to get discouraged here.Wingman1 06:53, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

some links
===Ware Shoals, South Carolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia===

Pre Doomsday History. (see link.)

===Ware Shoals Railroad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia=== The train carried goods to and from the textile mill located in Ware Shoals, South Carolina, but its main use was the transportation of coal. The railroad was built in 1905 by the Southern Railway, which supplied locomotives to operate the line with during the steam era. By the late 1950s, the railroad dieselized with a single ex-Southern General Electric 44-ton locomotive, numbered 1955.

The railroad ceased operations in 1985 when the textile mill begin to curtail operations. Trackage was pulled up in 1987.

(was in-use and in-tact on DD.)

===Saluda River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia===

from river crossing seciton

Laurens County/Abbeville County/Greenwood County Wingman1 02:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Erwin Mill Road
 * S.C. 252 (Old Bridge) in Ware Shoals, South Carolina
 * East Main Street in Ware Shoals
 * S.C. 25 in Ware Shoals

Wingman1 09:52, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

the page.
i would recomend 2 changes as is the pic maybe changeing from 1987 to 1997 because of the mill not being in the pic. i was going to use the loss of the mill in 1990 (same as OTL as what pushes WS to join Piedmont.

section name form just history to Pre Doomsday History.Wingman1 02:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I figured the flyover was part of the operations in the peace-keeping effort in Anderson, and thus the 1987 date. I can crop the picture to exclude the area where the mill was. What was the nature of the "loss" of the mill in our time line?

in OTL, the mill was lost in 1990 after being shut down and mostly un used for a number of years.

i was actuly out of town the week it happened but from what i have heard send then from local's that witnessed it. it was they came so close to loseing the whole town that day.Wingman121:30, June 15, 2012 (UTC) i was wanting to use some kind of ATL verison of this fire to push WS into joining Piedmont. the ATL date does not "have to" match the OTL one..

i have got some pic of the aftermath of the fire somewhere i will post here when i can.Wingman1 21:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

makes sense to me. ( might edit the pic to the right for a aftermath shot.Wingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC) grea idea i will us it when i get to that sectionWingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have cropped out the vacant lot so the flyover makes more sense as it is. I used Google Earth arial shots from 1994 that matched the on to the right and compared the modern shots.
 * Anytime after 1987 will be good for the fire. In all likelihood Piedmont would come to the aid of the community to fight the fire anyway, leading to warmed relations and annexation of the area.
 * I'm thinking adding it to Williamston County will work well. That will mean expanding south a little, but I've been thinking that Anderson would be allowed to expand south with borders along the western border of Secession Lake. the new border of Williamston County would be from the northern tip of that lake to Laurens County just south of Ware Shoals. SouthWriter (talk) 23:54, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

great idea, esp if the people in Anderson are still a threat. i can see WS in Williamston County.Wingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

(moved pic's below)Wingman1 17:37, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

As for the section name, I'd say that the "Pre-Doomsday History" would be a sub-section of the "History" section. It is not necessary to have a large pre-doomday section either - just enough to set the stage for how the town develops in the aftermath of the destruction of Columbia and Augusta. SouthWriter (talk) 15:32, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

ok i can change the section header back, no big there.Wingman1 09:37, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

'what about the section below to start with. a bit of pre DD history?Wingman1 00:48, June 17, 2012 (UTC)'

Lordganon made a good point, so i reworded the intro a bit South.is it ok Wingman1 12:01, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

First section for the page.
Ware Shoals is the site of an old water wheel grist mill operated in the early 19th century by William Ware at Rutledge Ford, on the Saluda River.

Nat Dial of Laurens County envisioned the possibility of damming this river to power a cotton plant. Dial started the project, but ran out of funds before the power plant was completed. Benjamin D. Riegel bought the project from Dial and founded both the Ware Shoals Manufacturing Company and the town of Ware Shoals in 1902.

The construction of a power plant was completed in 1904, as a prelude to the construction of a state-of-the-art textile mill in 1906. That power plant originally provided for 4,800 horse power. The mill contained 30,000 spindles. By 1916 a new mill was constructed, containing 70,200 spindles and 1,300 looms.

By 1916, the town was as new and modern as any in South Carolina. In addition to the cotton mill and the school, the Ware Shoals Manufacturing Corporation, later known as Riegel Textile Corporation, helped give the town electric lights, water and sewerage and good streets. The mill operated a bank, a railway, an ice factory, a cotton gin and a cotton seed oil mill. A community center was built by the textile company at a cost of $40,000.

In 1926 a large school building was constructed to accommodate students. This building is still used today as the Ware Shoals High School and remains one of the oldest school buildings in the use in the state of South Carolina.

Benjamin Riegel helped organize the town's first church when he brought a Presbyterian preacher, Rev. J. M. Dallas. That first church building was intended as a union church building and the Methodists and Presbyterians used it together, while the Baptists constructed their own facility. "The People's Amusement Hall" is what Benjamin Riegel set out to build, but was so proud of it that he named it the Katherine Hall, in honor of his daughter. Katherine Hall at various times housed or hosted a movie theater, the community library, a Masonic Lodge, a pool hall, a teen canteen as well as showers and dressing rooms for the adjacent public swimming pool.

Riegel Stadium was built in 1931. The stadium was first used for football games in 1934. Lighting was installed a year later, allowing night games as well. Through the decades, Riegel Stadium has hosted high school teams, textile baseball leagues, and the Negro baseball leagues. In 1954, the stadium hosted an exhibition game between the Cincinnati Red Legs and The Washington Senators.

The town reached a peak in the early 1970s. However, gross mismanagement at the corporate level facilitated the rapid demise in this plant.

notes and coments on the above section
i did not do a straight copy from wikipeda but i did use the elements i think would be the key to the surivial of WS as a community. with the competition for resources comeing in more after DD.Wingman1 10:02, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

any thoughts?Wingman1 14:35, June 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks good to me. It was your typical mill town, it appears, that would have been drying up about the time of Doomsday. The history of the town could probably be shortened even more, though, unless you want the mill to play a part in its survival. 


 * oh yea that'ss what i had in mind. using the textile's as trade goods and for the Town's needs.Wingman1 04:34, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * You might look into working in something of anything that has to do with the relations that Ware Shoals had with Greenville in the 1980's. Perhaps work in some politics if there were any particularly interesting people from the area. And of course, bring in the National Guard stationed there. SouthWriter (talk) 03:25, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * working on that now.Wingman1 04:34, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

new work.
feel free South to change or scrap as you think it needs.Wingman1 05:54, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've cleaned it up a little and inserted a few dates to make this work.'' I still think the period between the 1970's and the 1980's needs a bit of fill in. '' A transition from it's peak to the coming of Doomsday is needed. Either that, or a great transition sentence in the section on Doomsday. I'll do a little research, but I want this to be largely your article. SouthWriter (talk) 21:22, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

and thats just the point of time before i moved to WS, i am going to go dig up some old newspapers from from that time frame if i have to go back to WS for a visit.Wingman1 05:23, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

ok i will tweek the page a bit.Wingman1 22:20, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Image Gallery
puttinig WS pic here to use on page latter, i plan on "'shoping" some of them.

WS video
i am going to do some screen grabs from this video in the next few days.Wingman1 (talk) 01:52, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Be careful with what you grab. You would be surprized what would not exist in the 1983:DD universe. Besides the late model vehicles (including boats!), even the infrastructure may have changed. Check out the structures and history since 1983. What has changed? Take care, and happy "grabbing"! SouthWriter (talk) 02:37, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

i know what you mean. lol! i was going to "shop" out some things and put in some others.Wingman1 (talk) 02:41, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

First Contact with The Piedmont Republic
do we have a date for First Contact? other than just early 1992 ? like month and day ?

i was thinking about haveing the Piedmont group spoted here first and by the time they reach the dam they are greeted by a group from WS. what do you think?Wingman1 11:34, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

According to the Piedmont article, the Saluda River exploration began on June 21, 1991. Since WS was eary on the trip down stream, I'd say contact could have been as early as the first day and no later than a few days into the trip toward Greenwood. The way the Piedmont article reads, though, I'd say the contact would not be cordial. The "fiefdoms" would have been discovered by men who had just seen a burned out residence upstream.

The reception by locals would have been a cold one, leaving the impression that the town was a boarded up and well armed. I created this concept to explain why people so close had not made contact. The way you have it written, though, relations with Piedmont would have warmed in 1993 after the fire. This may be too soon. I'd say that the fire should be perhaps as late as 2003. This would have given WS two decades to evolve into a separate entity with a reputation. It would take their unsuccessful attempt at returning electricity to the town to convince both them and Piedmont that a better arrangement needed to be made. SouthWriter (talk) 22:00, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

kool i can fix that no problem.Wingman1 23:51, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

i made a few changes tell me what you think South.Wingman1 23:57, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

still plugging away at this. just working 3'rd more often.Wingman1 00:35, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Make up of first contact group.
what was the make up of the group that made first contact with WS? is they any names to the group?Wingman1 (talk) 00:11, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

From the Piedmont article:


 * "On the same day [June 21, 1991], along the Saluda River south of Greenville, a team of soldiers with two civilians along, set out on a similar expedition. Like the Spartanburg team, they would mostly float down river, using poles and oars, and preserve their fuel for the trip home.


 * ... Putting in at a boat landing just outside of the military outpost in Pelzer, the team "set sail" in three medium size canoes."

Putting this together, I'd say there were six people on the expedition. Given that there are two civilians, we can assume they are experts of some sort (or perhaps politicians). They might be in a canoe by themselves, flanked by the soldiers, or perhaps one each in the rear two canoes. I did not attempt to assign any names to them since I try to use real people whenever possible. SouthWriter (talk) 18:01, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

great. gave me some ideas.

what about my idea of having the expedition first spoted by lookout's with a group of locals on hand when they first reach the dam? .Wingman1 (talk) 23:23, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

i take it the location works?Wingman1 (talk) 00:28, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

working
working 3'rd a lot lately. will get to this as i can grab time.Wingman1 (talk) 10:16, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

wiki break
i might have to take a wiki break and deal with some IRL issues, not sure yet i am by no means leaving this project.Wingman1 (talk) 00:36, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

i am still here, just might not be able to log in for a bit.Wingman1 (talk) 01:42, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

does'nt look like it will happen but who knows,Wingman1 (talk) 00:28, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

firefighters
i am going to name the 3 firefighters latter when i can get some pic's to put up. Wingman1 (talk) 22:02, August 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Great. I take it these are the ones that fought the fire in our time line. I did a quick search and could not find info on the casualties of that fire. SouthWriter (talk) 02:25, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Nobody got hurt in the OTL fire, i got to thinking that it akes sense that TTL they might be some casualities. i am thinking maybe they got killed saving lives, or trying to salvage critical equipment, i am not sure which way i am going yet. what do you think?Wingman1 (talk) 02:49, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I suppose since the fire happens in a mill that is still being used rather than one that was closed, there might be some casualties. The records should not be hard to find some firefighters that would have been serving in April of 2003. It seems that the department is staffed by volunteers so anyone you pick from a 2003 city directory or phonebook ought to do. Or you can pick a friend (or enemy!) to turn into a hero and martyr for the cause. I would go with saving lives since equipment in a mill is far too hard to salvage in such a situation. In the real world insurance would cover it. Here, they would be forced to reach out to Greenville (which they should have done years ago). SouthWriter (talk) 04:42, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * sounds great, not so sure the same lineup would be TTL an in OTL(not even sure if they would all be still alive anyway, or they would be serveing in other ways), also thinking they would be understaffed
 * as well. i got some ideas but i am not going to completey recreate the OTL 2003 lineup.


 * i am thinking one will be a veteran firefighter and two rookies trying to save civilians that they did not know was allready safe. i got some ideas i am going to work on after work.Wingman1 (talk) 15:46, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Police Chief
i have him as a LT on DD i might change that latter when i can fine some more info on WS Police from 1983.

and i will tweek his term of service to ake it claoser to, but not match it OTL.Wingman1 (talk) 21:09, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Hey South.
when you can get the time could you give me a review on the page? i got the major points down, just need to do some details. could you review the page before i ask the group as a whole to do so? thanks.Wingman1 (talk) 11:30, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

hey South
you still around? i haven't heard from you in a weeks. everything ok?

Wingman1 (talk) 01:38, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, things are going fine. I was on vacation for a week, then I've been trying to spend more time with my wife. I'm trying to get back into the wiki, but I've got other things that keep getting in the way.

Thanks for checking up on me, though. I hope things are going well with you as well. SouthWriter (talk) 02:24, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

well that's good to hear. uou looked at the WS page lately?Wingman1 (talk) 01:17, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

I looked it over. It is not quite what I envisioned when I wrote about finding fiefdoms there, but I am open to changing some of what I originally wrote. I did not anticipate a local reader becoming involved so I created the scenario along with ones for Greenwood and points along the Pacolet River east of Spartanburg. Your hard work does not deserve to be held back by my original creation. What I suggest, though is to work hard on making the disconnect with what was going on in Greenville, et al, and Anderson, very clear. I mean by this that there has to be believable reasons why contact was not made for almost eight years. --SouthWriter (talk) 03:53, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind praise. (i am not above haveing something changed if you don't agree with it. lol!)

how about a border skirmish right in the first year or two that the locals blame rightly or wrongly on people from "up north" maybe a skirmish with forces from Anderson?

I would ask this of you sence i am trying to connect WS to your work, i a not good at all at writing up battle sceens, i think i could do an aftermath better than the actual battle. if you get the time could you maybe use part



of one of the groups you created and give WS some s**t, lol. i was thinking maybe a small battle right here in that aera would be a good spot for it. i could drop in some names for local victims and and add some details. i am not rushing this project in any way, and if you dissagree with the battle idea, i am thinking that something would have to "scare" them into isotlation for that amount of time.Wingman1 (talk) 10:44, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

(p.s, i am going to copy this section to the WS talk page, ya can delite this one here if you want to.)Wingman1 (talk) 10:44, September 13, 2012 (UTC)