Talk:Axis vs Allies R-word (Map Game)

Enough Players
i think the number of players is adequate to begin. Nkbeeching (talk) 21:11, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

I concur. Let the games begin!

21:59, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Maps
I got a map proposal right here!



I fixed some things: That's great, except that Mongolia was colored because it was a vassal of the Soviets. If you are going to color Liberia, then you have to color Mongolia. You should also color the Dutch East Indies.
 * Labeled Liberia as part of America (it was effectivley an American colony)
 * Removed Mongolia from the USSR as it was never part of the USSR
 * Colored Italian colonies
 * Colored Portguese Colonies
 * Colored more British Colonies
 * Updated Yugoslavia/Albania and USSR/Finland
 * Morgan Freeman (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 03:06, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Seems legit, but Mongolia in Soviet color, East Indies in Dutch color, and you missed Sweden.

03:09, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'll add those for the next year Morgan Freeman (talk) 03:32, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Just do it on this one; you've got a good part of a day left to do it.

03:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Not where I live Morgan Freeman (talk) 03:34, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Christ man, it take one minute. If you cba, I'll do it.

03:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)



I fixed some things:
 * Colored Mongolia a Soviet-ish shade of red
 * Colored Dutch East Indies
 * Colored Sweden
 * Gave Southern Albania to Greece (assuming they accept the deal)
 * Morgan Freeman (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmmm, in the first place according to what i know Albania wasn't completely annexed by the Yugoslavians as they gained only 2.4% of albania, and although i would like to get southern albania, I haven't either Vassalized it or Invaded as to gain it, So unless the mods say i get it for some reason ( which i would think won't happen) or unless Yugoslavia Invaded it again, i wouldn't have anything to do with them other than a sworn alliance to them. So no point on Giving albania to Yugoslavia nor to southern albania to me. Thanks though. Sine dei gloriem 19:32, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Vassals
Vassals should be allowed, they are in real life, especially WWII. OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM

It says you can't create stupid vassals, not that you can't create vassals. Course with you it'll be a moot point but...

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:30, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed.

Scraw

Algo
We might need one.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  23:31, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Working on it.

Scraw

Location
Location goes by the location of the nearest large concentration of troops. You can only have one; it will be of the Leader nation closest to the area.
 * Defending nation: at heartland: +5
 * On the border +4
 * A city close to the border +3
 * Far from the border +2
 * Opposite side of nation +0
 * No former presence +0 (you have to have troops in the location before the attack)

Power
Aerial assault is tangent with location. For the attacker, your aerial power must be close enough to the location of attack, with your land nearby for the planes to return to.

Naval assault is only applicable when attacking a coast.

Land assault is also tangent with location. No requirements for land assault other than being somewhat near to the border. Land, aerial, and naval is compounded. If you have large naval, medium air, and medium land, your score is 9 or 7. You cannot have medium aerial and large aerial at the same time.
 * Large aerial assault capability +3
 * Large naval assault capability +3
 * Large land assault capability +3
 * Medium aerial assault capability +3 (if enemy has no aerial power) +2 (if the enemy has aerial power)
 * Medium naval assault capability +3 (if the enemy has no naval power) +2 (if the enemy has their navy stationed in or around the location)
 * Medium land capability +3 (if three or more times larger than enemy) +2 (if less than three times larger than enemy)
 * Small aerial/naval/land capability: +1

Power is averaged in a coalition war.

Industrial Strength
Industry is added up for all participants in a war.
 * UK, US, Germany, USSR: +5
 * Japan: +4
 * France, Italy, Brazil: +3
 * China, colonies of the UK and France, rest of Europe, Ethiopia, South America: +2
 * Everyone else: +1

Scores will be changed over time.

Development

 * Military: + 2 for every turn in the last 10 years
 * Economic: + 2 for every turn in the past 10 years
 * Infrastructure: + 3 for every turn in the past 10 years (defender only)

Nuclear Weapons

 * +7 if major city is destroyed
 * +7 for first nuclear attack
 * +6 if minor city is destroyed
 * +5 for retaliatory attack
 * +10 for the first nuclear attack ever (can only be used for the first use of a nuclear weapon)

Chance

 * The last digit of each editor's edit count. In case of PC-NPC war, NPC automatically gets 5.

Motive

 * Economic (Gains land, resorce, etc): +2
 * Defending territory not owned by nation more than 20 years: +3
 * Defending territory not part of heartland but held for more than 20 years: + 4
 * Taking territory of similar culture but not part of nation: + 4
 * Aiding an Ally: + 5
 * Pre-emptive Strike: +5
 * Taking back territory recently held by nation but since lost: + 6
 * Defending Heartland from attack that will not cripple/ destroy nation: + 6
 * Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed: + 6
 * Attacking to enforce politcal hegemony: +7
 * Defending Core/heartland from possibly fatal attack + 8
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation that has a motive over 5 and has not yet used their weaponry: + 8
 * Defending from nuclear armed nation, regardless of motive, that has used said weaponry: + 9
 * Defending from attack that will wipe out nation and culture: + 10
 * Modifiers:
 * Non-democratic Government supported by people: + 3
 * Democratic government supported by people: + 4
 * Government not supported by people: -5
 * Troop Morale high (requires motive over 5, chance over 6, and stronger development scores in at least one category): + 5
 * Troop Morale low (any of the above: chance below 1, lower development scores in all categories, recent war penalty over 8): -5
 * Fighting Guerilla War: -5 attacker, + 1 defender
 * Implausibility: -2 per impluasibility
 * Warning: Negative motive scores are possible!!
 * Lead nation's motive, not average.

​Population

 * Greater than 100 million +20
 * Greater than 50 million +15
 * Greater than 30 million +10
 * Less than 30 million +5
 * Larger than opponents: + 2
 * 2x size of opponent's: + 5
 * 5x size of opponent's: + 10
 * 10x: +15
 * Every further order of Magnitude (eg 20x, 30x): +20
 * ONLY of the leading nations

Allies

 * Leader Nations: +10 each participating
 * Military aid: + 5 each participating
 * Supplies: + 3 each participating
 * Cultural Support: +2 each participating
 * Vassal: -2 each participating
 * Withdrawal: - 2 each nation which was participating and then left
 * ex: China (L) Vietnam (M) France (S) Britain (C) Japan (MV) Korea (SV) = 10 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 24
 * Please note that Vassals CANNOT give Cultural aid

Recent Wars

 * Each war in the past 15 years where nation was a...
 * Leader: -4
 * Military aider: -2
 * Supplier: -1

Results
The equation for gains from war algorithms is (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where x is the number of the years the war goes on and p is the amount of territory determined by the algorithm ((y/(z+y))*2)-1 where y is the winner's score and z is the losers). So if your war lasts one year, you only get 50% of the territory, but if you let the war last five years, you get 90% of the territory. The minimum amount of territory you can win from an algorithm is 1%, otherwise it is a percentage of the loser's territories to two decimal places e.g. 13.69% not 13.69242%.

A great calculator for this is http://web2.0calc.com/ you just copy and paste the equations into the box and replace the letters with the numbers for that specific war. And then you just copy the answer to the main page. Or folks, just use Google. Their automatic calculator is a great aid in working out all this.

There will be on algo per phase/front of the war- NOT PER BATTLE, and ONLY for MAJOR wars.

If a certain war appears Implausible or otherwise, the mods reserve the right to change the amount of land gained.

Discussion
um i think we also need a naval algo, guerilla penalty in occupied territory, and also troop morale. Nkbeeching (talk) 09:34, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Naval Algo? Why? It's one algo per war lol.

As for the other two, algo's not done yet,

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  20:06, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

NOW it's done. Complaints any?

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig  (Dammit, Guns!)  20:18, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Could I get the algorithm for the Yugoslvavian invasion of Albania? Morgan Freeman (talk) 00:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

USSR

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +9
 * Industry: +5
 * Development: + 2 (military) +2 (infrastructure/industry)
 * Nukes: +0
 * Chance: +8
 * Motive: + 16 (trying to get back lost land, economic, non-democratic support, high troop morale)
 * Population: +15 (over 100 mil, greater than 5x opponent)
 * Allies: USSR (L): +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particpation: + 10
 * Result: 73

Finland

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: + 1
 * Industry: +1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +7 (+3 less than 20 years, democratic government +4)
 * Population: +1 (under 30 mil)
 * Allies: Finland (L): 10
 * Recent Wars : 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 40

Results
((73/113)*2) - 1 = .292

.292 * (1-(1/4)) = .219% = 21%

USSR crushes Finland and Stalin decides to not purge his generals.

Discussion
Alternate:

SCRAW. You Screwed up that Algo TOTALLY.

I did it right. Then Britain went about sticking its nose where it didn't belong. As usual.

00:30, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yugoslavia

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 2 (Economic)
 * Population: + 11 (Under 30 mil, 5x larger)
 * Allies: Yugoslavia (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 47

Albania

 * Location: 5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 8 (defending heartland from potentially fatal attack)
 * Population: +1 (under 30 mil)
 * Allies: Albania (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participiation: 10
 * Result: 44

Results
45/66 = .6818181... x 2 = 1.3636363636... -1 = .3636...

.363636 x .75 = .272727272... = 27%

Yugoslavia crushes Albania

((47/(47+44))*2)-1 = 3.2%

If war lasts for 2 years (you can change that, Dax), then (3.2)*(1-1/(4))= 2.4 % of Albania. A strategic victory. Try again.

Discussion
'''Beautiful example how not to do it. Well, not actually, but you did most of it wrong. Thanks for laying down the basics, though.'''

 23:41, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil

 * Location: +4
 * Power: + 6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +32 (8 years mil, 8 years econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 7
 * Motive: + 14 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic govt, High Morale)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Brasil (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particaption: 10
 * Result: 82

Argentina

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: - 7 (Defending from potentially fatal strike, Low troop morale, 5 implausibity Citations)
 * Population: +1 (Under 30 mil)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participlation: 10
 * Result: 20

Results
(63 /(63+23)*2)-1) = 0.465116 --- Only if the algo is correct Brazil would topple argentina's government.

((82/(82+20)*2)-1) = 0.60784313725

(60.7)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 45.525%

Discussion
'''Wrong, Feud. *Sigh*. But you erred in his favour lol.'''

HOWEVER, IT WILL TAKE TWO YEARS.

 22:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ethiopia

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: +6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: + 24 (6 turns econ, 6 turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +14 (High Troop Morale, Supported govt, Defending from non-fatal attack)
 * Population: +1 (Lower than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Ethiopia (L), France (L), Britain (L), Canada (MV), Australia (MV), India (M) USSR (S): 44
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 114

Italy

 * Location: +3
 * Power: +6
 * Industry: +3
 * Development: 12 (3 turns econ, 3 turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: -2 (Economic, Popular Support, Low Troop Morale, 1 Imp Citations)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 2x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Italy (L), Germany (C): 12
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 51

Result
((114/(114+36)*2)-1) = .52

(.52)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 26%

War can last for one turn; Italy will lose all territory in Africa. SO SAYETH GUNS.

23:33, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

SCRAW OBJECTETH. Italian Somalia to the Ethiopians, Tunisia to the frogs, and Cyrenacia to the limeys. The Ivans need nothing.

23:37, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

WE KNOW. FFS.

I uploaded a map of basically that persuasion, lol. Ethiopia gets Eritrea and Somliland. The Brits and French split Libya.

23:38, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

No Libya for the frogs. Leave part for the guinea dagos. (Guinea dago? Guinea dago! Figaro!)

23:41, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I need to take 26% of their territory Scraw. libya be going to French and Limeys.

23:44, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Taking all of Libya exceeds the 26% winnings.

23:45, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well not taking any of it doesn't fulfill said winnings.

So give half to the Brits and leave the Dagos the rest lol.

23:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I see three problems with this algorithm. This would give me a score of 54, While your scor would remain as it was originally. the equation should go as follows:
 * First, Italy's location should be five; I already had a large concentration of troops within the Ogaden at the time of your attack
 * Second, my motive score should be zero, not negative. I have non-democratic government supported by the people(+3), and I am attacking for economic reasons(+2) for a total of five, which is negated by low morale.
 * Third, my participation score is listed as 0.I've definitley participated in the war, so it should be ten like it is in any other algorithm

((114/(114+54)*2)-1) = .35

(.35)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 17.5%

Taking into account that you would already have to elimate the italian prescence in the Ogaden, by the end of the year, you would probably manage to make significant penetrations into Somaliland and Eritrea. To take Libya you would have to get Britain and France involved, which could not be done except by having another large European war, something not likely to happen over a nation such as Ethiopia. Wegscuba (talk) 02:39, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Ethiopia was the largest non-European nation in Africa and had well over half a million angry men that the Emperor could rile up into a fight as he did in the Italo-Ethiopian War. Having Ethiopia as an ally was something Europe was interested in OTL during the 1920s and 1930s. Also, during the end of WWII, the British and French devoted tens of thousands of troops to fight the Italians in Ethiopia as part of the East African Campaign. Ethiopia was much more important than you would have us believe Wegscuba. Also, Italy was weak compared to all the other European powers, definently weaker than the top two dogs Britain and France. Both were superpowers, and the other had a massive colonial empire than made Italy's look insignificant (especially when you look at Africa). No offense though. And remember, your not just fighting Britain and France, your fighting Canada, South Africa, Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Chad, India, and Australia as well, all of whom fought in every major conflict their mother country was involved in, and more importantly, surround Italian Africa as well. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 13:26, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Your territorial divisions make little sense. I will return to offer my suggestions that make more sense to me.

Happy Thanksgiving.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 15:05, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

AHEM.

Weg; only defending nations can recieve a score of 5.

In addition, you have one impluasibility citation. So -2, not -7.

That's an accident (about the particpation score.)

So your actual score is 51.

((114/(114+51)*2)-1) = .38

(.38)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 19%

Which happily solves the problem of Libya. You lose all colonies in Africa save for your largest.

Actual, I expected MP to enter the war on your side, thus sparking WWII.

Hehe.

18:47, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

That solves a lot of the problems I had, especially now that Britain and France are aiding Ethiopia. Wegscuba (talk) 23:28, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well now. This is interesting, and now that I have returned and I am in considerably better mood, let us look at this.

I think the territorial acquasitions are a little overboard. Ethiopia would, without a doubt, get Eritrea. But they would not get Italian Somililand. The Somalis would never allow it, and the Ethiopians would be hard pressed to control such a large Muslim population.

If Somaliland were to be ceded to someone else, it would likely be Britain. Or maybe Germany...just kidding.

I think you guys are making this seem like more than it is. Sure, Italy just invaded a nation, but that was not unexpected. Furthermore, this is not WW1, you don't have to strip the nation of all of its colonies.

Combine that with the racism, and how the British and French must be laughing themselves to death that the Italians cannot beat the "uncivilized" Ethiopians when the technology gap has widened even further, I doubt they would hurt the embarrased Italians further.

Just my thoughts.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 13:48, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Second Sino-Japanese war
can somwone do the algo i suck at these. i have been developing military and industry every turn, i have the support of manchuria, and i have a very large stnding army onv the continent, along with the navyy blockading the Chinese coastline.

Japan

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry + 4
 * Development: 36 (9 mil, 9 econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +10 (econ, high morale, popular support)
 * Population: + 2 (greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Japan (L): 10
 * Recetn Wars: 0
 * Particpation: 0
 * Result: 83

China

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 0 (No govt)
 * Industry: 0 (No govt)
 * Development: 0 (No govt)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: - 10 (No govt)
 * Population: 0 (No govt)
 * Allies: 0 (No govt)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 5

Result
((83/(83+5)*2)-1)= 88.6%

(88.6)*(1-1/(2*1)) = 44.3%

War lasts one turn; Japan totally destroys what little government is left and effectively annexes the whole nation. Absolute control not yet granted; but basically everything.

Brazil

 * Location: +4
 * Power: + 6
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +36 (9 years mil, 9 years econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 0
 * Motive: + 14 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic govt, High Morale)
 * Population: + 7 (Greater than 30 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Brasil (L): 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particaption: 10
 * Result: 79

Argentina

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: - 7 (Defending from potentially fatal strike, Low troop morale, 5 implausibity Citations)
 * Population: +1 (Under 30 mil)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participlation: 10
 * Result: 20

Results
((82/(82+20)*2)-1) = 0.60784313725

(60.7)*(1-1/(2*3)) = 45.525%

'''^ I know this is wrong (Results wise) but idk how to do that could someone please 1. tell me how and 2. teach me sometime soon. The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me) '''

Discussion
This makes no sense... what?? You already did the algo... ~Guns

German Invasion of Poland
DAMMIT GUNS I DID THE WHOLE DAMN THING AND YOU GAVE ME AN EDIT CONFLICT. ~S

HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH ~G

Poland

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 3
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 7 (Low troop Morale, Democratic support, Defending Heartland)
 * Population: +2 (Greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Poland (L), Britain (M), France (M), India (MV), Australia (SV), Canada (SV), New Zealand (SV): 10+5+5+4+1+1+1 = 27
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 61

German-Soviet Alliance

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: +10 (Germany: 5, USSR: 5)
 * Development: 80 (Germany: 10 turns mil and econ; USSR: 10 turns mil and econ)]
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: ((2+5)/2) = 3.5 ~ 4
 * Motive: 10 (Economic, High troops morale, Govt Support)
 * Population: +15 (Greater than 100 mil, 5x size of opponents)
 * Allies: Germany (L), USSR (L), Italy (M), Austria (M): 30
 * Recent Wars: -8 (Finland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 164

Result
((164/(164+61)*2)-1) = 45.8%

(45.8)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 34.3%

It will take 2 turns for the full anexation of Poland.

Germany

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 44
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 7
 * Motive: 5 (economic, Govt support)
 * Population: +2 (Greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Germany (L) USSR (M) Italy (M) Austria (M) Spain (C) Sweden (M): 33
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 119

Denmark

 * Location: 5
 * Power: ((9+9+6)/3)= 8
 * Industry: +12 (Denmark, Britain, France)
 * Development: 88 (France: 10 turns mil+econ Britain: 10 turns mil +econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: +15 (defending from fatal attack, high troops morale)
 * Population: +7 (Greater than 100 mil, larger)
 * Allies: Denmark (L) Britain (L) France (L) India (LV) Australia (MV) Canada (MV) New Zealand (MV): +51
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 51

Non-jacked Results
(119//170)*2 - 1 = .40

(40)* (1-1/1) = who gives a flying fuck OTL says it happens

ACTUAL results based on actually reading what people post:

(202/(202+119)*2)-1=25.85%

(25.85)*(1-1/(2*1))= ~12.9%

The German invasion is momentarily thrown back, and allied troops advance into S-H.

Discussion
So, I do point out that Sweden is also involved in this algorithim, and another thing that I thought up of as well, pertaining to both this algorithim and the previous.

How can the Allies possibly support Poland, when there is no way for the Allies to get there and there were now ally forces there beforehand. Likewise, there were no Allied forces in Denmark at the time of the invasion. How could they possibly help? And how could India, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand possibly help within the initial weeks of the invasion, when it takes a few weeks to get there?

Furthermore, the algorithim is wrong. As Denmark is the leader of its own defense, it would not have the development, and it cannot possibly be aiding an ally. It also would not have population of more than 100 million.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 22:08, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Because the Brit colonies sent it LAST TURN!

Because both Britain and France moved troops to the North Sea LAST TURN!

Because Britain and France have sent their armies there, along side the Danish ones- it's THEY who are aiding an ally!

~ Guns

Ok, So let's resolve this here, k? Don't edit the algo yet.

22:56, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Defense
Why can't I help Leichenstein defend itself? Daeseunglim (talk) 22:59, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

It needs no defending. Neither do you.

23:01, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ahem *It don't need no stinking defending. Neither do y'all.

Every Silver Lining has its Cloud...    (And here I am!)

Small Note
Please note that in order to make the algo easier and more plausible, I have changed a couple of things. k?

Every Silver Lining has its Cloud...    (And here I am!)

France

 * Location: 5
 * Power:9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 2
 * Motive: 9 (Pre-emptive Strike, Democratic)
 * Population: + 15 (greater than 50 mil)
 * Allies: France: (L) Turkey (L) Britain (L): 30
 * Recent Wars: -4 (Aid to Denmark and Poland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 129

Germany

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 4
 * Motive: 9 (Defending from Non-fatal attack, Govt Support)
 * Population: + 17(Greater than 50 million, larger than opponent)
 * Allies: Germany (L) Russia (M) Austria (M) Italy (M) Chechkoslovkia (M) Spain (C): 32
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Denmark, Poland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 137

Result
((137/(137+129))*2)-1= 3%

(3)* (1-1/(2*1)) = 1.5%

The Germans breakthrough Frnech lines.

Discussion
Is this France attacking Germany or Germany attacking France? CourageousLife (talk) 00:39, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Kinda hard to tell. I mean, the French declared war first, but I'd guess that this would be a German attack? here, there's no clear aggressor.

But no worries. This is just for mod-events.

00:44, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Germany

 * Location: 5
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 4
 * Motive: 9 (Defending from Non-fatal attack, Govt Support)
 * Population: + 15 (Greater than 50 million)
 * Allies: Germany (L) Russia (M) Austria (M) Italy (M) Chechkoslovkia (M) Spain (C): 32
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Denmark, Poland)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 135

Britain

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: 14 (Pre-emptive strike, Democratic, High Morale)
 * Population: +17 (Greater than 50 mil, greater than opponent)
 * Allies: Britain (L) India (LV) Turkey (M) France (M) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) New Zealand (MV): 41
 * Recent Wars: - 5 (aid to Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 149

Result
(149/(149+135))*2) - 1 = 4.9%

(4.9)* (1-1/(2*1))= 2.45%

Britain makes a small Breakthrough in the North, establishing a beachead.

20:30, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
So, I may be annoying here, or I missed something, but I recall Turkey sending troops to France, not to invade Germany.

Furthermore, and I call upon a neutral mod to look at this, but how could Turkey get troops to France? There is no land route, and the sea route is right by Italy, an Axis ally.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 00:50, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Idk. I can get rid of them, but I think Turkey could do it- Italy's navy ain't worth shite, and Gibraltar is British.

00:58, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Italy had the fourth largest navy in the world at the time, and with less colonies, all the ships would be in the Med.

Turkey's navy is much smaller, I think.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:10, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Fair, fair. You can remove em if you want.

A small Concordat
Listen, I don't really want to deal with this algo and the inevitable arguments it will cause, so can we agree on something?

Germany get 60% of the total pixels of both nations, the remainder remains free under British protection.

Otherwise, idk. I mean, France and Britain mobilized a lot earlier than OTL, so methinks it won't just be a straight victory. But you guys have an outside chance of getting the required 1/3, I suppose, but I'd say you're more likely to get around 15%.

22:32, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Germans have the Ivans on their side ATL. I say all of it.

22:48, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Umm please. Scraw, you cannot send troops to Belgium, k? How the hell would that happen? I've got 90% of the Home Fleet sitting in the North Sea just begging for a shot at your navies. And say what you will, we all know that the RN could take both of your navies down, together or individually. No possible way for them to become a leader.

Now, you're going to say that it is then Implausible for India to lead, and I will agree with you. Cos frankly, if they're leading, shit just went down, population wise.

Military supplies, so what? You get to send an extra +5 the German way. Ain't enough.

Simple fact is, With Britain sending in troops, France supporting, you probably will win- I'm not going heavy metal do defend the Low Countries- but you'll be exceedingly lucky to get more than 20%. If that.

22:55, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

You neglect to account that Germany has no eastern front, so more troops can be used in the west, and my forces can always cross Germany.

04:24, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

France

 * Location: 3
 * Power:9 (med naval, land, and air)
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 40
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: 9 (Defending territory, Democratic)
 * Population: + 17 (greater than 50 mil, larger)
 * Allies: France: (L) Britain (L): 20
 * Recent Wars: -12 (Poland, Alsace/lorraine, Charlemagne)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 107

Italy

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 7 (high naval, med land and air)
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 30
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: 9 (Pre-emptive strike, Govt Support)
 * Population: + 15 (Greater than 30 million)
 * Allies: Italy (L) Germany (L) Austria (M) Russia (C) Chechkoslovkia (M) Spain (M): 37
 * Recent Wars: -4 (Ethiopia)
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 121

Result
((91/85+89)*2) - 1 = .034

(.034)* (1-(1/2*2)) = 0.025 = 2.5% The campaign lasts for 2 turns. Morocco is taken, and the italians gain a strip of land which runs along the eastern border of the Western Sahara, to the West african Coast and ending at the Senegal river.Wegscuba (talk) 04:15, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Weg, what the fuck? You would have gotten 2.5%, not 25%. But you did screw it up. So actually, you got...

((121/121+107)*2) - 1 = 6.1%

(6.1)*(1-1/(2*1))= 3.05%

I hate mathWegscuba (talk) 03:03, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Japan

 * Location: 3
 * Power: meduim land, large air, large naval (plus 8) = +8
 * Industry: +4
 * Development: 30
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 9
 * Motive: 16 (Enforcing political hegemony, high morale, govt support)
 * Population:  30 (Greater than 100 mil, greater than opponent)
 * Allies: Japan (L), Manchukuo (MV) = 14
 * Recent Wars: China (L) minus 4
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 120

Dutch East Indies

 * Location: 5
 * Power: (after Dutch collapse no effective govt)
 * Industry: 1
 * Development: 0
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: + 5 (defending)
 * Population: 10 (greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: 0 (After Dutch collapse no effective govt)
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result:36

Results
(120/(120+36))*2 -1 = 53.84%

(53.84)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 40.8%

Japan gets all of it, blah blah blah, etc.

Discussion
id appreiciate hep with finishing this XD thankyou Nkbeeching (talk) 14:02, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Czechs

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 6
 * Industry: 2
 * Development: 8
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: +10 (econ, Govt support, high morale)
 * Population: 7 (Less than 30, larger than Opponents)
 * Allies: Czechoslovkia (L) Germany (M) Italy (M) Spain (S) Russia (S) = 26
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 79

Hungary /Austria
Result: +64
 * Location: +5
 * Power:  +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +6 (three turns mil)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: +5
 * Motive:  + 3 (Possibly fatal attack, low morale)
 * Population: +5 (Less than 30)
 * Allies: Hungary (L) Austria (M) : 15
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Participation: 10

Result

(79/(79+64))*2 - 1 = 10.4%

(10.40)*(1-1/(2*2))= 7.8%

Discuss
Does Hungary have a higher population than Czechoslovakia?

Yep. No worries. Fixed it

Austro-Hungarian allaince can claim 13.25% of Czechslovakia.

What? Why do they get some bullshit Land War advantage thing? Czechoslovakia has a better military than Hungary.

Does anyone check these 'statistics'? Hungary has a population of 9 million, Czechoslovakia has a population of 15 million.

And Hungary is not the same as Austria. Austria wouldn't go to war with Germany. It wanted to be called 'German Austria', ffs.

Local, calm down DS|The Rainbow Machete 21:46, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

... Says the person that vandalised an algorithm...

'''DEAN. What the fuck? You totally screwed up this algo! '''

'''I have fixed it and I do not want to see any more edits here unless you check with me first. -.-'''

Spain

 * Location: 4
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 3
 * Development: 8 (6 military, 2 economy)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 8
 * Motive: 15 (enforcing regional hegemony, high morale, govt support)
 * Population: 10 (Greater than 30 mil)
 * Allies: Spain (L) + Brazil (S) Germany (M) USSR (C) Czechoslovakia (C) Austria (S ) Sweden (M) Italy (M) Portugal (M) Argentina (SV) = 39
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 109

Britain

 * Location: 3
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 44 (11 turns mil and econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 6
 * Motive: 11 (defending territory, democratic support)
 * Population: 15 (Greater than 50 mil, 2x size (I am counting some of the colonies here))
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) India (LV) New Zealand (MV) France (S) USA (S) = 36
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -15 (War against Germany, aid to Republican Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Result = 124

Total
I'd do the thing here but let's be honest, I can't really take much land from Spain, not while I carry out two simultaneous invasions, so how about the Spanish forces are just hurled back and cannot attack Gibraltar for another 3 turns?

Discussion
Not entirely familiar with how we're doing population scores here. Since I'm not invading Britain proper, should I be using Gibraltar's population? Aside from that, it's completely possible/likely that I borked the algorithm. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 14:33, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

S'ok, I got this. You screwed up some points, but mostly s'all good. You do use Britain's population. I guess if you invaded the Falkland's it might be different initially, because it would take time for the Brits to arrive, but here the Brits would arrive within a day. And we already have support from the colonies.

~ Guns

No. Gibraltar population + the number of men in the defending force if you want to push it. Not budging.

00:28, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Gibraltar was back then not even a days sailing from Britain. It would be mere hours before reinforcements could arrive.

I mean, we could carry out two algos here, one for the original invasion invasion and the other for what happens later, but I have Imp's 7 million troops, and I've only deployed 3 mil so far.

00:37, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

AUSTRIA IS NOT HELPING THE AXIS!!!!! STOP adding me to all your algos, got it??? DS|The Rainbow Machete 17:51, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Japan and Thailand

 * Location: 4 (Th), 2 (Jp)
 * Power: 8 (Th), 9 (Jp)
 * Industry: 1 (Th), 4 (Jp)
 * Development: 34 (17 military, Th), 34 (Jp)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 4 (9,214, Th), 2 (2,052, Jp)
 * Motive: 6 (Aiding Social/Moral Kinsmen who are being oppressed) (Th), 6 (Jp)
 * Population: 5 (less then 30 millions, Th), 20 (more then 100 million, Jp)
 * Allies: Thailand (L), Japan (L)
 * Participation: 10 (Th), 10 (Jp)
 * Recent Wars: Dutch East Indies (Japan (L)), China (Japan (L)) -8
 * Result = 84 (Th), 87 (Jp) - 8 = 163

French Indochina

 * Location: 2
 * Power:
 * Industry: 3
 * Development: 37 (10 military, 7 economy, 1 infrastructure)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 1 (1,911)
 * Motive: 10
 * Population: 10
 * Allies: France (L)
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: West African Campaign (France (L)) Alsace-Lorraine Front (France (L)), German invasion of the Ardennes, Ethiopia vs Italy (France (L)), German Invasion of Poland (France (M)), Schleswig Holstein Front (France (M)), Spanish Invasion of Gibraltar (France (S)) -21
 * Result = 52 (needs power)

Total
To be finished.

Discussion
redo the calcultion since you need to include jaapns statistics in this and we still dont know other nation's reactionsNkbeeching (talk) 22:37, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Since France is a leader, should be counted as a seperate entity in this algorithm, with it's own scores for these categories. CourageousLife (talk) 23:09, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

I believe all parties have come to an agreement on the state of the war. CourageousLife (talk) 23:37, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

yes this will be a legal occupation to keep the region out of foriegn influence and prepare the region for decoloniztion under joint influence but in affiliantion with the japanese sphere, this is my points if not accepted then i will move forward as i see necesary for now this is not awar but a legal occuaption.Nkbeeching (talk) 23:52, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

So quit killing my citizens. It's not yours just yet. CourageousLife (talk) 05:07, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Brazil
​*Population: +30 (Brazils population is much much greater than Guyanas by over 100X not to mention i doubt Britain can sail here in a day or two much less a month or two with all its troops so tied up)
 * Location: On the border +4
 * Power: +9
 * Industrial Strength:+3
 * Development: +72 (18 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +7
 * Motive: +12
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(MSV) +18
 * Recent Wars: -8
 * Results: 147

Britain

 * Location: +2 (no previously stated troops in the area but ill give benefit of the doubt)
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48 (12 turns mil and econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 1
 * Motive: 8 (+4 not heartland but held for over 20 years) (+4 Democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (British guyana had a population of not just over 300,000 in the 40's)
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) India (LV) New Zealand (MV) France (S) USA (S) = 36
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -15 (War against Germany, aid to Republican Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Result = 73

Result
(147/(147+73)*2)-1 = .33485194 (33.4)*(1-1/2*3)= 27.83

Brazilian troops outright destroy the military forces in British Guyana and a few islands continuing on. The Brazilians Demand the outright surrender of all Britain's Caribbean territories.

Discussion
Just for Troops i gave him the benefit of the doubt that there would maybe be a few around but most would be fighting on the various fronts. as for population this is not Gibraltar, the Brits cannot sail here in a week to come deal with this situation most ships as guns has stated are in Europe holding the line.

Brazil
Location: On the border +4

Power: +9

Industrial Strength:+3

Development: +72 (18 turns Mil and Econ)

Nuclear Weapons: N/A

Chance: +7

Motive: +12

​Population: +30 (Brazils population is much much greater than the Falklands and other islands by over 100X not to mention i doubt Britain can sail here to deal with me so preoccupied.)

Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(MSV) +18

Recent Wars: -8 (war with argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.

Results: 147

Britain
(147/(147+73)*2)-1)= 0.3363636363636364 (33.6)*(1-1/2*3)= 28.0%
 * Location: +0 (yeah no troops whatsoever)
 * Power: 9
 * Industry: 5
 * Development: 48 (12 turns mil and econ)
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 1
 * Motive: 8 (+4 not heartland but held for over 20 years) (+4 Democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (British guyana had a population of not just over 300,000 in the 40's)
 * Allies: Britain (L) Canada (MV) Australia (MV) India (LV) New Zealand (MV) France (S) USA (S) = 36
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: -15 (War against Germany, aid to Republican Spain, aid to Poland, aid to Denmark)
 * Result = 71

Brazilian forces outright Crush the British in the Area seizing multiple islands quite easily and demand surrender of the islands to Brazil.

Arrangements
OK, my fellow Axis, stop adding me as C in algos. Seriously.

And Dean, kindly shut up. You are Axis, OK? I don't know what this BS is between you and Hungary, but it stops here.

19:06, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Dean, you are Axis.

Scraw, you are too far away from the fighting to NOT be C.

And what the fuck is Brazil doing? This is such implausogasmic BS it ain't even funny.

Cour, can you post for me for the next say 3-4 turns? Or Enclave, or Fed?

20:12, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * How can I be too far away? How are you not too far away? You are an island whose only means of sending troops anywhere is via boat. I just have to get my men on a train, and that train goes through friendly land to the front.


 * 20:42, December 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah but like... no more than M, k? You ain't leading in France.
 * 20:49, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, but I'm pretty booked up myself. CourageousLife (talk) 20:40, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

No, actually, nvm. I can post for myself. It's ok.

20:49, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Possible end to the war
Discuss. Britain is willing to pull out of S-H and surrender all of our colonies in Africa and South America. In return, Germany will pull out of most of France. Italy will not gain any land lost in their war with Ethiopia. The USSR can do whatever shit it wants cause there is no point in arguing with Scraw.

21:44, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Territorial change
The following losses will be imposed upon the British: The following changes will be made to France: The following changes of occupation will occur:
 * 1) The British will relinquish control over all of their holdings in Africa.
 * 2) The British will be allowed to retain South Africa in the event that they surrender Northern Ireland to the Irish.
 * 3) Ireland demands that Scotland and Wales are also handed over to them.
 * 4) The British will relinquish control over all of their holdings in the Middle East.
 * 5) The British will recognize the loss of British Guiana to Brazil.
 * 6) The British will relinquish control of the land formerly known as India, leaving it to its own devices.
 * 7) The British will give independence to Gibraltar, which shall henceforth exist in the form of a city-state independent of any foreign nation.
 * 8) The British will denationalize the Suez Canal, which shall become the Suez Canal Zone, under joint administration by the United Kingdom, Germany, and the Soviet Union.
 * 9) The British will return Greenland to the Danish government.
 * 10) The British will release control of all territories in Southern and Central America.
 * 11) The British will surrender Malta to Italy and Cyprus to Greece.
 * 1) The location of Alsace-Lorraine will be directly annexed to Germany.
 * 2) The French will relinquish control of African possessions.
 * 3) The French will recognize the loss of French Guiana to Brazil.
 * 4) The French will surrender Corsica to the Italians.
 * 5) The remainder of France will continue existence as a free, fully independent nation.
 * 1) Germany will cease claiming direct control over Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Each of them will become independent of either party. The Swedish shall also return taken Danish land. The area known as Luxembourg will be left to the Germans.
 * 2) The Italians will move out of all formerly Allied colonies in Africa, and they will be given independence (as previously stated).
 * 3) The British shall remove all troops from Schleswig-Holstein.

With regard to finance

 * 1) Any financial dues from the earlier Great War will be cancelled.
 * 2) The British and the French shall return to the Germans all money collected since 1918.
 * 3) The British and the French shall pay Germany and the Soviet Union a total of (present day) two million dolllars every year until 25 years from the signing of this agreement have passed. Ireland, however, calls for this to be dismissed.
 * 4) The Soviet Union will pay for all damage in infrastructure caused to England, Scotland, and Wales in the year of 1940. This will be substracted from the British dues to the Soviet Union.

In agreement with the Allied Powers

 * 1) An international body shall be created with the intent of maintaining a global state of relative peace.
 * 2) With regards to this body, it shall have five permanent council members in the form of the United Kingdom, the United States, Germany, the Soviet Union, and the Empire of Japan.
 * 3) The Union of South Africa, if it shall remain with the British, will end the practice of apartheid. The black man shall also gain the vote.
 * 4) The British and the French shall not engage in any hostility with the Germans or Soviets until all reparations have been paid off.
 * 5) The British or the French shall aid the Germans or the Soviets in any war in the future for ten years until the passing of the signing of this agreement.
 * 6) In the unlikely event that the Germans and the Soviets engage in a war, the British and the French are welcome to pick the party they support or remain neutral.

German
Under this peace, all signatories acknowledge that Britain and France both are to blame for the start of the war. As such, the terms placed on Germany be the Treaty of Versailles will be declared and recognized as unfair and void. In addition, several territorial exchanges will take place.


 * Britain will acknowledge that they started the war.


 * Britain will acknowledge that the German puppet governments of France, Poland, Denmark, Belguim, Hungary, and the Netherlands are legitimate, and as such the former governments that escaped will return to those countries. They will not be harmed, and international observors can come to make sure that they are unharmed.


 * Several territorial changes will occur:
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Spain: Gibraltar


 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Italy: Malta
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Denmark: Faroe Islands, Greenland. In addtion, Britain will support Denmark's claim to Iceland.
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Portugal: Rhodesia
 * Britain will turn over the following territories to Germany: Southwest Africa, British Cameroon, former German New Guinea.
 * In addition, Britain will also grant total independence over Egypt, Iraq, and Oman.


 * Several things will also be done:
 * Britain will support the Axis in wars for the next 10 years.
 * All hostilies will cease.
 * A new international body called the United Nations will be created to preserve the peace. Details will be worked out later.

Well, that is all I can think up of. Let me know of any other ideas.

-MP

British
Here be it resolved before the assembled nations;

A) Britain will agree to a cessation of hostilities against the nations of Germany, USSR, Sweden, Italy, Czechoslovakia, and assorted merry band;

B) Britain will pull all troops out of the region of Schleswig-Holstein;

C) Both sides shall leave the territories of Belgium and Holland;

D) Britain will grant independence to all lands in the continent of Africa with the exception of the Union of South Africa;

E) The Union of South Africa shall end the practice of Apartheid;

F) Britain will arrange for the total independence of the Dominion of India before the year 1950;

G) Germany shall vacate the territory of France such that save for the area of Alsace-Lorraine, it is as Ante-Bellum;

H) Italy will grant independence to all lands (3.5%) taken by them in the war against France;

I) Britain shall cede any land in South or Central America, granting independence;

J) Britain shall retain any territory not agreed upon by this treaty;

K) France shall retain any territory not agreed upon by this treaty;

L) Turkey shall not lose any land;

M) There shall be a new international body formed;

N) Said body shall have a Security Council with the following Members: Britain; the USSR; the USA; Germany; and rotating final member;

O) The USSR and Germany shall retain the power of veto over any bills introduced in said Council but not in the overall body;

P) Britain and France shall pay an endemnity of 1.5 million $ per year for 10 years;

Q) Britain and France shall agree to support Germany and the USSR with military aid in any wars within the next 15 years;

Be it here resolved, there will be a ceasefire declared upon this date until the agreement of an armistice.

French
1. France will be included as a principal member of the international body known as the United Nations (becasue of the war it was subjected to)

2. Territory


 * a. France will grant independence to it's African Colonies.


 * b. Indchina will be jointly governed by Japan and the United States for a period of 25 years, after which it will be granted independence.


 * c. France will decolonize it's African holdings and grant them independence.


 * d. French Guyana will remain under French jurisdiction as part of the decolonization agreements.


 * e. France will cede Alsace-Lorraine to Germany


 * f. The nation of China will be restored to status quo ante bellum, with the exception of territory taken by the USSR. The territory obtained by the USSR will be recognized as an independent nation, albeit a protectorate of the USSR. China will be joint-administered by Japan and the US for a period of 10 years for the purpose of rebuilding and supporting the new government.

3. Reparations


 * a. From the reparations determined, an amount will be subtracted from the overall payment for damage and losses caused by German soldiers on French soil

4. Regarding the future


 * a. Nations participating in the war will cease territorial expansion, influentially or otherwise, for a minimum of 15 years


 * b. France is allowed to remain neutral in a war between any two UN nations if they so choose

5. More to come...

Japan:
Japan requests that it be permited to sit down in the peace talks. with the single request that it become one of the permanant members of the new body proposed by the british, and that its sphere of influence in east asia be recognized by the other world powers.  Italy: A. Diplomacy


 * 1. A peace will be declared between all parties of the Second World War


 * 2. This peace will be considered binding, and lasting. Any violation of this treaty constitutes breaking international law.


 * 3. The British and French will pay reparations to the Axis powers which shall directly relate to to the loss of Axis manpower and materials for each country.


 * 4. To maintain this peace, prevent further war, and solve diplomatic tensions, a neutral organization of Nations will be created.


 * a.Any and all future resolutions created by this organization shall be considered final, including amendments to this treaty


 * b.the leading nations of this war, Primarily the UK, Germany, the USSR, France, and Italy will be the leading Nations of the assembly; They shall have abilities to veto resolutions, and by majority vote will be able to designate who shall recieve such powers

B. Territorial and National changes


 * 1.Germany


 * a. Luxembourg will be integrated into germany


 * b.any territories ceded by the germans after World War One will become part of Germany once again


 * c.The Governments created by germany in Denmark, Poland, Hungary, and the Netherlands shall be recognized as legitimate


 * d. The forer German colonies of Cameroon, Southwest Africa, and German New Guinea will be restored to Germany


 * 2. USSR


 * a. The USSR shall maintain control over all terriories gained during the course of the war


 * 3. United Kingdom


 * a. The UK shall cede Gibraltar to Spain, though it will remain demilitarized for a term not exceding 25 years


 * b. The UK shall cede Malta and Cyprus to Italy, and restore the former italian colony of Somaliland


 * c. The UK shall grant Immediate Independence to India


 * d. The UK will gain control of Greenland


 * e. The UK will return any territory seized during the war


 * f.  Any Dominion wishing to stay under Britian's indirect control (South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Or Canada) may continue to do so


 * g. The Lease on Hong Kong will be transferred to the Japanese


 * h. All other British colonies not specifically listed must be granted Full Independence by 1955


 * 4. France


 * a. France will remain independent


 * b. France will cede Savoy and Corsica to Italy, and Alsace-Lorraine to Germany


 * c. France will cede Algeria, Tunisia, and French West Africa to Italy


 * d.France will cede morocco to Spain


 * e.France will cede Indochina to japan and the United States, to be governed by both for a period of 25 years, before granting Indochina independence


 * f. All other French colonies will gain full independence by 1950


 * 5. India


 * a.all indian ports owned by foreign powers mut be ceded to India by 1955


 * 6. Japan


 * a. Japan shall maintain control over the areas aquired in combat


 * b. Japan must give those territories some autonomy. After a period not exceding 25 years, a referendum on full independence shall be held for all aquired territories


 * 7. Colonies of Axis Powers


 * a. All colonies controled by axis powers will be given a referendum on independence exactly 25 years after the ratification of this treaty, including both those that were aquired by war and those that were colonized
 * 8. Transjordan and Mesopotamia


 * a. The proposed organization of nations will control a territory in the middle east, which will be comprised of the Suez canal zone, Palestine and Transjordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Kuwait. The Territory will be broken up into independent nations by 1955.


 * b. The exact borders of the nations will be decided by the international council which will administer the territory

Czechoslovakian Proposal
Anything already agreed to, but with the understanding that Czechoslovakia is to do as it will in South Eastern Europe, barring nations that are part of either alliance.

Swedish Propsal

 * 1) Points that everyone agrees on
 * 2) Iceland shall be Danish and Swedeish joint adminesterd. (Stripes on the Map)
 * 3) The Brittish and French shall, and will support the axis powers in there wars for the next 5 years.
 * 4) Northern Ierland will be seeded to Ierland.
 * 5) Denamrk shall change its name to Jutland because a majority of the people of OTL Denmark are on the Swedish area that was annexed.
 * 6) Italy shall keep its captured land, and shall be seeded Somailia.

Points that all parties agree to

 * 1) There will be peace.
 * 2) The British and French will pay a sum that is yet to be decided to the Soviets and the Germans.
 * 3) An international body will be created, with the UK, US, USSR, Germany, Japan, France, Spain, and Italy as the principal members. The first five listed will have the ability to 'veto'.
 * 4) The first nation to violate two or more of the accepted terms shall be engaged in defensive warfare with all other signatories.
 * 5) Indochina will be jointly governed by Japan and the United States for a period of 25 years, after which it will be granted independence.
 * 6) The British shall remove all troops from Schleswig-Holstein.
 * 7) Luxembourg will remain a full part of Germany.
 * 8) The United States shall free Iceland and the United Kingdom shall return the Faroes to Denmark. The UK will however keep Greenland (MP and I agreed upon that)
 * 9) The Germans shall evacuate France (with the exception of Alsace-Lorraine) and Italy shall gain Corsica and Savoy.
 * 10) Germany will keep German-friendly governments in Denmark, Hungary, Poland, and the Netherlands, while the government of Belgium will return.
 * 11) With regards to decolonization, France must be finished by 1950, Britain by 1955, and Germany and all other Axis nations by 1960.
 * 12) Spain will get Gibraltar, but it will be a DMZ.
 * 13) The Suez Canal shall remain under British control (agreed with MP).
 * 14) Britain shall be allowed to retain the following territories after decolonization: Burma, Singhapore, Hong Kong, South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the South Sandwich Isles, the Falkland Isles, the Cayman Isles, Bermuda, and Greenland.
 * 15) Britain shall free all territories in the Middle East before the year 1945. The exceptions to this rule shall be Palestine and Kuwait, which shall be released in decolonization. Alongside these shall be what remains of Iraq once a Kurdish nation has been created from the lands of Iraq and Syria.

Discussion
May I suggest that we have 7 permanent nations to the Security Council? They would be the UK, USSR, US, Germany, Japan, France, and Italy; however only the first 5 have veto power.

22:56, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Although the United States was not part of the War in Europe, besides supplying support to Britain and France, the United States will voluntarly hand Iceland back to the Danish Government (If the Mods approve). Enclavehunter (talk) 22:59, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I say Spain over Italy, and agree to veto power rule.

The mods accept the US offer.

23:22, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I support Italy over Spain. Italy acutally beat France at a few points, and Italy still has the fourth largest navy in the world.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 23:44, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me.

23:49, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't we have 8 and include em both?

23:56, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Even number is no good.

Arent the Americas supposed to be decolonized as well with the Guyanas being transferred over.? The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

I also propose that Germany is now freed from the provisions of the treaty of Versailles.

"This is not your grave  but you are welcome in it. " 01:44, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

I propose that the headquarters of the United Nations are in Geneva Switzerland, utilizing the old LoN headquarters, with regional headquarters in: New York City (NA), Rio de Janeiro (SA), Capetown (Africa), Tokyo (Asia), Jerusalem (Middle East), and Canberra (Oceania). Daeseunglim (talk) 01:54, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

I propose that the headquarters be in New York, since it was neutral in this war. Geneva can be the European capital.

02:08, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone have any objections on the sanctions laid out about the future of China? CourageousLife (talk) 02:24, December 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes. Me, Guns, Nk, and MP decided that China is fine how it is.


 * 02:27, December 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming on chat? CourageousLife (talk) 02:32, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Regardless of where, China should not just be allowed to be conquered outright. Respects can be made to the victors, but not all of the territory gained in the war should remain a conquered state. The Chinese people cannot just be easily assimilated. This could lead to unrest and uprisings in the future, as well as going against moral statutes. If nothing else, China's capital should be vacated of foreign armies and China should be allowed a seaport. CourageousLife (talk) 02:51, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a free China.
 * 03:02, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * France is aware of that. However, they have no seaports and it's natural capital is occupied by foreigners. I'm sure these needs can be met without much reluctance, because it's the morally right thing to do. CourageousLife (talk) 03:18, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * The USSR is aware of what. However, no ones cares because World War II was not the war on fascism or anything like that, it was just the war of throwing good old fashioned gentlemanly warfare out the window and replacing it with completely destroy the enemy and your side too if you have to as long as you come out on top, with no regard for the consequences. So you could say that morals were very very absent from the war in OTL, and we don't really have them in ATL either.
 * 03:22, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, disregarding the moral standpoint. France argues that China was still invaded and robbed of it's natural freedom and territory. This cannot be allowed to to unnoticed. CourageousLife (talk) 03:33, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait. What did Italy actually do in the war? Shouldn't Spain be the one, not Italy. Italy did fuck all...
 * One thing, Could greece get control of the ruins of Carthage, in similar way of Ceuta and Oran for spain. please. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 17:07, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can Czechoslovakia make a proposal? Fuck it. I am going to... Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

Oct here, icland did NOT belong to Demark at that time, it was just in a personal union

Brazil

 * Location:
 * On the border +4
 * Power: +6


 * Industrial Strength:+3


 * Development: +60 (15 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A


 * Chance: +3


 * Motive: +2 (Guerrilla war, economic, high morale)


 * ​Population: +25 (Greater than 30 mil, 10x Venezuelas pop)
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(SV)Venezuelan loyalists (MV) +14


 * Participation: +10


 * Recent Wars: -8 (war with Argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.)

Results: 119

Venezuelan Rebels

 * Location: +5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +24 (12 turns mil and econ) +18 Infra
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: + 9 (defending heartland, guerilla war)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Venezuelan rebels (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 90

(152/(152+77)*2)-1)= 0.3275109170305677

(32.7)*(1-1/(2*3) = 27.25

((119/(119+90))*2-1 = 13.5%

(13.5)*(1-1/(2*2))= 10.125% Brazil makes some initial advances

Discussion
Screwed it up something big, Feud...

Brazil

 * Location:
 * On the border +3
 * Power: +6
 * Industrial Strength:+3
 * Development: +60 (15 turns Mil and Econ)
 * Nuclear Weapons: N/A
 * Chance: +3
 * Motive: +2 (econ, high morale, guerilla)
 * Population: +25 (Greater than 30 mil, 10x Venezuelas pop)
 * Allies: Brazil(L)Argentina(SV)Venezuelan loyalists (MV) +14
 * Participation: +10
 * Recent Wars: -8 (war with Argentina) (supplies to various axis powers.)


 * Results: 118

Venezuelan Rebels

 * Location: +5
 * Power: +3
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +24 (12 turns mil and econ) +18 Infra
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: 5
 * Motive: +9 (defending heartland, guerilla)
 * Population: +5
 * Allies: Venezuela rebels (L): 10
 * Participation: 10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Result = 91

(141/(141+77)*2)-1)=29%

(29)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 21.75%

The Venezuelan city of Barcelona and large amounts of Territory in the Area is secured with Loyalist forces beginning to regain a foothold.

((118/(91+118))*2-1 = 12.9

(12.9)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 9.675% Barca goes back, and a little of the countryside.

22:20, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
For the record, you cannot give both Miiltary aid and Supplies.

Nor can you have more than 60 years development.

Nor can you stack population bonuses.

And you forgot the Venezuelan allies score.

22:06, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Greece

 * Location: +4
 * Power: +4
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: 18 (mil and econ)
 * Nukes: +0
 * Chance: +7
 * Motive: +8  (Pre-Emptive strike,Non democratic government supported by people)
 * Population: +5 (8 million)
 * Allies: Greece (L): +10
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Particpation: + 10
 * Result: 68

Turkey

 * Location: + 5
 * Power: + 4
 * Industry: +2
 * Development: +4
 * Nukes: 0
 * Chance: +5
 * Motive: +12 (Heartland from possible fatal attack and democratic government supported)
 * Population: +7 (less than 30 millions but larger than opponents)
 * Allies: Turkey (L): 10
 * Recent Wars : -5
 * Participation: 10
 * Result: 51

Results
(68/(68+51)*2)-1 = 14.2%

(14.2)*(1-1/(2*2)) = 10.65%

For the record this is As far as the information given too me about both greek and turkish military status.

Lol I forgot the wars turkey aided in. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 17:39, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Implausible Italy events
Italy seems to have randomly won a load of Africa due to a mod event. Why the fuck did that happen? They almost lost a war in Morocco, so the Events give them Algeria and Tunisia... This is bullshit. Mafia CBA doing his signature. Don't judge Him. This Sig is inspired by Guns.

I got Algeria and tunisia before I tried for Morocco. It would be plausible that I'd get something in Africa anyway, algorithm or notWegscuba (talk) 23:59, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

^ That, and anyway they aren't keeping most of those. Except Tunisia.

00:27, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Nukes, Space, Jets, and other such things
Ok, so now then, we need to get some things sorted out.

Firstly, a TL for the powers all to get nukes. That's what I have so far. If Spain and Italy get it.... well...
 * Germany+USSR: sometime in 1944
 * US: Early 1945
 * UK, Japan, France: late 1945

Now then, we need to talk about Brazil.

WTF? How'd they pull a nuke program out of their asses?

Other things to follow...

23:21, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Japan is working with the US, and I think we'll just do this: We'll deal with everyone else after that.
 * Germany/USSR: 1944.0
 * US/Japan: 1944.5
 * Britain/France: 1945.0

23:23, December 9, 2013 (UTC)