Talk:Axis vs Allies: Revolutions (Map Game)

India
It says on the rule page that you can play as an occupied nation and declare independence. Could I do this with India?

The Royal Guns (talk) 10:18, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yup! We'll start when Principia Moderni ends. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 16:31, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

India is not occupied... Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:04, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Hate to disagree... it is a British colony, but unlike the Aussies or Canadians, it is mostly INDIAN, not white.

So TECHNICALLY....

The Royal Guns (talk) 11:11, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Good point, but it's still a colony. And Canada and Aussie became white because of the Brits (and French in Canada), so yeah.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 05:32, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

So is that a yes or a no?

The Royal Guns (talk) 05:35, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Player Readiness
No offense to Sine dei gloriem, but I don't think he's ready to take on the challenge of playing the UK. A: Because his posts are grammatically incorrect and incomprehensible, B: Because from my experience of playing with him makes me fear that he will do something ridiculously implausible like sign an alliace with Hitler and Mussolini while Winnie (the Pooh) is in power, and C: Because Britain is a major nation in the game and I think because of A and B he is not fit to play the UK. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:04, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:04, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't know if A is the biggest problem, but yeah, B is huge.

The Royal Guns (talk) 11:11, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you Scraw. I'd like to play as Britain, if I'm any better than him. Bfoxius (talk)

I'd like to submit my name too. Would have done it earlier but... The Royal Guns (talk) 19:45, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

So, what's going on with this? The Royal Guns (talk) 14:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

im insulted, but my plan is going to fight of the fascist europe, i get your point but,come on! i'm not that exagerated but the only few games we have played in each other have been colonialist and in them, well i want to colonize... but if i know something has a precedent in otl i follow it Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:36, August 31, 2012 (UTC) also the nearest think i would do with Nazi germans would be warning them about invasions if they do not listen i would start the war agaisnt them like in otl

Revolutions
Just saying, the Matrix Revolutions has to have had the worst ending in all of history... the good guys (Neo and Trinity) die. and based on what the Architect said in the second one, since the Matrix rebooted, everyone who was in the fields died.

It don't bode well.

The Royal Guns (talk) 04:56, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Mods
Truthfully, I don't know the situation around here except for Crimson, so I'll make him mod, and you guys can discuss the others. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 17:14, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Call me an idiot, but what does that translate to? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:06, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

You guys choose the mods. :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:39, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Start?
When will the game start? I'm rarin' to put down a civil war! BNSF1995, Alive since 1995 03:10, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

You can't just put it down. You're going to need to fight it, I suppose.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:16, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Then I'll fight until every revolutionary is struck down! Still, when does the game start? BNSF1995, Alive since 1995 03:42, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's gonna start when PM starts, but you guys can choose. If you guys want it earlier, I'm really fine with it. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:54, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Lol, we're not THAT impatient. It'll be what 10 days. The Royal Guns (talk) 20:03, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Awwwwwwwwwwwww.... --"Truth fears no questions..." 20:12, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Austria-Hungary
I'm interesting playing, but I'd like to know if I can ressurect Austria-Hungary.

Yank 21:05, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

But I'm planning Auscluss... :/ Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:13, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

But I would support you if you tried to take over Romania, deal? :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:15, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really feel like going for Romania. What, pray tell, do you gain from annexing Austria. I see no strategic purpose for it. There's also the propaganda value of an old ally being reformed. I just think that reuniting Austria-Hungary would put me in a better position than just taking over Romania. Yank 22:12, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

You ruined my plan!! :'( Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:23, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

START
Never mind, we start now! :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:34, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Britain
So, is Sine playing or should someone else take over...?]

The Royal Guns (talk) 12:37, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Ill PM him. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 18:57, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

If he doesn't respond, may I take over? The Royal Guns (talk) 23:18, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, sure, why not! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 02:25, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Power and Influence Algorithm
Greetings. As most of you should remember, the World War I version of AvA featured a Power and Influence Algorithm that helped control plausibility outlining national power and influence. Considering the past unsuccessful Axis vs Allies games, could the algorithm perhaps be resurrected to ensure the game isn't totally implausible? ChrisL123 (talk) 00:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps, I need to look at it. You guys decide over it.

Alright, it has been decided. We are going to use this algorithm. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:01, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

For

 * Stewdio333 (talk) 04:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter (talk) 04:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 05:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC) (First hand experience with it.)

Discussion
Could this please be explained. I read it but I still don't get it! :/ Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:06, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Of course. The P&I algorithm is almost like any other war algorithm we have, but it uses key national factors (location, military milestones, allies, ethics, wars, population, etc.) that can be discovered through turns and OTL factors. They each have an assigned value, and adding them up will give a number (from 1-10) that describes how powerful a country really can be, so that way we can be assured that a country like can't defeat a country like  in a World War. Another addition to it was that number that a country has can be used to determine how many military milestones a country can have (army, military, battleships, bombs, etc). ChrisL123 (talk) 19:15, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Congrats!
We're the number one on most editors with 19 editors :) Lets keep this up! PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:30, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Well, a fore-warning now. There will be times when we will not even be in the top-5 list (believe me, its happened with PM). However, we will have to keep playing with plausibity and players will return... :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:36, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Heh, yeah, I know that will probably happen, but oh well... :) Truthfully, I've got a lot of pride in my AvA map game series :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:37, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Longest game series (proud to be in more than half of them)!! :'D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:39, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

=) I really really really hope we can get to 2013 with this one... :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:40, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Also, look at what I made :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:45, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Not bad! :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:48, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Just a tiny idea
i had an guerilla agorithem seperate from the war one based on populace happiness, number of troops active in a region, tactics to dealing with insurgencies and foriegn support for either a government or an insurgency group, because i dont think that a regular war algorithem can be used for that considering anti-insurgencies are far more complex then convencional warfare, keep in mind the usa failed to fight vietnamese insurgents, chinese nationalists also failed, so did the USSR also failed this way we arent rallying on randoms chance for something that was never luck. Nkbeeching

You're right, but as they say in the Middle East, lets blow up that bridge when we get there. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:46, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Lol, that's just mean.

The Royal Guns (talk) 21:47, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Heh, apparently that's what they say :D. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:47, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Wow...
So the Japanese player made a post, and about 3 seconds after I started making a few changes on spelling, but when I pressed publish, I had an edit conflict. And then I saw EoGuy had already made all the changes I had made... and then some. Wow... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:47, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

I can beat that. Back on SOCr, I posted for my nation, hit publish, and got an edit conflict. Ok, so I try again, and get another edit conflict. Then I try again, and I get another edit conflict. By now I was ticked off, and I pressed publish for the 4th time.

EDIT CONFLICT!

After that, I just gave up and posted later.

The Royal Guns (talk) 22:21, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

UK Discussion

 * ​OK, guys, let's have a vote now, am I play or Sine (as GB)? Because they are one of the major players and no one can even interact with them if there is a dispute over player. The Royal Guns (talk) 23:59, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * ​Guns:
 * ​The Royal Guns (talk) 23:59, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter (talk) 00:04, September 1, 2012 (UTC) (Sorry Sine, but I really agree with an experience player playing as Britain).
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]][[Image:Regen Flag.png|30px|border]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:26, September 1, 2012 (UTC) (Sine, no offense, but you're way to inexperienced.
 * Stewdio333 (talk) 05:02, September 1, 2012 (UTC) (I'm really sorry, but what I've seen, Guns does a great job of playing as Britain.)
 * ​Sine:
 * ​Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:01, September 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * um - Can I abstain in the vote. Nkbeeching.
 * No. (jk, course you can.)
 * OK then, I'm going to be Brazil Sine dei gloriem (talk) 23:35, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

'''OK... so I guess I take over the UK and its colonies, hmm? The Royal Guns (talk) 14:33, September 1, 2012 (UTC)'''

'''Yeah, I suppose so. Sine has already decided to be Brazil (Sorry man), so you've got the green light.''' PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:34, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

i dont really have a problem with it, it doesnt really surprise me, the only thing i think its that you should have give me a chance to prove that i can play as it, but ok Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:19, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't mind you playing as UK, I think you should have been given a chance, but I suppose the popular decision... PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:22, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

i know but if people desires something let them choose it, and they choosed royal guns to be britain so, well what can i do, but accept it Sine dei gloriem (talk) 01:24, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Can I switch countries?
I know I ask this a lot on other maps, but can I change from Sweden to Romania or Hungary? I feel that I'm not getting enough action in a World War II map, and total protection seems boring. :P Stewdio333 (talk) 16:05, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

If you can I recommend Hungary over Romania. The Royal Guns (talk) 17:24, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Is everyone okay with me changing countries? I know it might slide this time, considering that Sweden is not in a losing state, but I still need to know if this is okay. Stewdio333 (talk) 00:04, September 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Should be fine, there have been switches on previous games before. Just remember you can't post as Sweden again. ChrisL123 (talk) 01:11, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, should be fine, and besides, the game is still on its fifth turn, it shouldn't influence your nation much. Flag_of_South_Korea.png PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:15, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. :) I just fear that say other people do what I'm doing, causing them to abandon ship (their country), when their losing. Granted, when my country lost in New Beginning, I continued to play though. I just don't want to start a bad trend of people jumping to another country. Stewdio333 (talk) 02:32, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Country switching should only be possible if the player's first country has ceased to exist. Yank 19:33, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Moved to talkpage - Indochinese sale
'''Quick thing - I didn't purchase French Indochina. I purchased economic rights within the French colony. It's still French just that most businesses will be Japanese. Nkbeeching''' ​Imp, these belong on the main page. It is a question over plausiblitiy
 * I'm pretty sure the Japanese already had designs on all Asia, so.. Not sure if this is plausible.
 * I know they had designs on Asia but read my posts, Japan is under a new regime with different designs, while yes influence over Asia is one of my goals, I'm going to do it through non-military and non-violent means - mainly economic policies. The main goal is to help the eventual independence of fellow Asian nations and gain influence in them but through cooperation and slow decolonization. For the most part anyway, I still plan to butcher China as much as possible but acting civilized XD.
 * hmm...

The Royal Guns (talk) 22:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

They take up space as they can be done on the talkpage rather than cluttering up the main page(no offense). :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:43, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Joining?
I'm going to be on this site a bit mroe soon as I'll be doing PM II. So I was wondering whether I could play as Bulgaria in this map game? seeming as it doesn't appear to be taken and it's pretty early on I reckon it'll be fun. Kunarian (talk) 13:37, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, you're welcome to play! The more the merrier :D PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 13:46, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Fantastic! :D Kunarian (talk) 13:48, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Mods and Mapmakers
I've completely reconfigured the section into German, lol, if anyone has any other titles, please post here lol. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 14:06, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can we use ranks from Imperial Russia or Bourbon France? I want to be Marshal of France!

If not, can I be Minister of Propaganda as well as Reichsmarschall? Then I can spread propaganda for the game and get some new players! (Very crafty with propaganda. Look at all the nations I had ready to go to war in PM. You know what I mean, Imp. ;)

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:44, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can I mod? The Royal Guns (talk) 20:55, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I suppose you can.

Anyways, I suggest political titles for mods, Wehrmacht titles for the mapmakers, Kriegsmarine titles for the algorithmers, and Luftwaffe titles for Grammar Nazis.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:26, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Algorithm
Considering we don't have an algorithm yet. I propose to use the algorithm from the previous game. Enclavehunter (talk) 18:53, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:07, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

No Longer Interested
I'm no longer interested in playing this game. Thanks for screwing over my planned Austria-Hungarian reunion Stewdio.

Yank 19:32, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

You could still do it, having another player there makes it more interesting anyways. And what's wrong with maybe a Confederate or Federal Austria-Hungary with two players, you taking up Austria and the Czechs with him taking up Hungary and the east, then you could technically have an even greater Austria-Hungary. By the way this is just a suggestion and maybe a way of getting ideas going on how you can have your cake and eat it too. Kunarian (talk) 19:40, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, the Czechs are mine!! -.- Imp (Say Hi?!) 19:42, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

That's kind of... mean. It's not his fault, it's mine. I recommended it to him (sorry). I'm pretty sure he didn't know. The Royal Guns (talk) 20:11, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I stated up front that I wanted to ressurect Austria-Hungary. It's his fault for not reading that message. I find it frustrating that I must once again reiterate that I belive that nation switching is an extremely bad idea when the player in question isn't forced to do so. Sweden is stil perfectly fine, so why does he feel the need to switch? The idea that you stick with the nation you picked (unless factors outside your control intervene) should be a fundamental rule of ANY map game.

Yank 20:21, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, then, he probably did know in that case, but frankly... Sweden is an incredibly stupid nation to play in a WWII game. And He abided with your wish to start with, but... You can't blame him for wanting to actaully do something in this map game. Besides which, reuniting AH in all it's glory is implausible, IMO.

Welll, you could ask him to switch to Romania.

The Royal Guns (talk) 20:35, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what your problem is, Yank. You seem to get too emotional over small and irrelevant things. Do you not see the greater benefit of having a player controlled Hungary as part of AH? It's far more benificial then going on it alone.

And Sweden is a neutral crapland. He needs to do something in this game.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:42, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I consede the point. I apologize for my behavior. I have autism, which means I can be quite hotheaded at times (though I'm having a better time controlling it recently). I'm still quiting the game, as I'm likely going to neglect it in favor of the next Principia Moderni game when it comes out. Yank 21:31, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

OK, I understand. On both points.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:34, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Once again, I apologize Yank. And besides, if you return, you could still take Austria, and we could form a military alliance together. Just like the good old days. Stewdio333 (talk) 09:01, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

'Big Cheese'
hh, guys, just saying. By WWII, both France and the UK were as strong as the US and Germany. After all, it was the Brits who held the Germans, as well as the Russians. Oh, and the Russians wouldn't have been ble if it wasn't for massive amounts of British supplies that were shipped there. The Royal Guns (talk) 21:05, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Thusly the Big Cheeses are America, the UK, Germany, and France. The USSR is not busy fighting Japs and is in full cahoots with the Germans.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:13, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

UK Troops Numbers
The UK probably had the highest troops numbers in the entire war, OTL; Russia threw in 3 million, the nazis some 5-6, America around 4, Italy around 2, Japan around 4-5, the rest around 1, and the UK around 9. That is; 3.5 form the Isles, 3 from an India which hated the Brits (which problem I have solved, so it'll be higher, around 4-5 million ATL), and 2.5 from the Aussies, Canadians, etc. So, NO complaints when I raise 10 million. It is PERFECTLY plausible.

The Royal Guns (talk) 13:34, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

But those men came from mass drafts which were in turn caused by the war. Also, those 10 million weren't drafted all at once- it took years. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:39, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Some things I found about the British military before WWII on WIkipedia:

"Although Britain had increased military spending and funding prior to 1939 in response to the increasing strength of Nazi Germany, its forces were still weak by comparison - especially the British Army. Only the Royal Navy was of a greater strength than its German counterpart. The British army only had nine divisions available for war, whereas Germany had 78 and France 86."

During the war, the British sent their BEF (British Expediationary Force) out to figt, an it only numbered 200,000 men. The vast majority of the British troops came from places like India, Kenya, Singapore, and other colonies that hated Britian. The rest of the troops were as PitaKang stated, drafted for the war, and even then it was total war, and given that the government would need a very good excuse for drafting a fifth of the British population (without dominions or colonies), that would devestate your economy. So your army without WWII is implausible. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 17:57, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Not at all.

First off, I'm talking 1944 anyway.

Second off, India no longer hates us because =D we gave them home rule. Basically independence, only they have to follow our foriegn policy. So Gandhi is no longer preaching against war. India sent the largest ever volunteer force to WWII when Gandhi, Nehru, etc were all preaching aginst it. Imagine how many would come when Gandhi wasn't doing it! By 1935, all they wanted was home rule, wasn't till 1940s that they wanted independence and only then because the brits wouldn't give them home rule!

The Royal Guns (talk) 18:18, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

And it isn't a fifth of the population. India's pop alone was 300 million. Plus, what makes you say there will be no WWII? No devastated economy. No outcry (there will be total war, eventually. Just not now. But I'm not talking about now.)

The Royal Guns (talk) 18:46, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

"...a fifth of the British population ( without dominions or colonies )." Without dominions or colonies. The India isn't the British Isles last time I read. And saying the Indians don't hate you is like saying my neighbor no longer hate me because I gave him $10,000 dollars, despite the fact I robbed him, shot him, burned his home down, and a number of other things I'm not comfortable using to illistrate my point. Britain screwed India over for a century and a half. Giving them home rule doesn't necessarily mean they like you now. Though that is not of my concern anymore given the clarification that this is for WWII. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 20:55, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Actual, not at ALL. The British never actually 'conquered' India in that sense- they're too heavily out numbered. The didn't 'burn down' the house or anything of the sort- except during the Indian Mutiny- better known to us Indians as the war of independence- and then the Indians instigated it.

And BTW, they summoned 9 million OTL, as I stated, so this arguement is moot.

But...

Ok, look. BY 1935, ALL THEY WANTED WAS HOME RULE. So, I granted that. I'm not saying they're 'happy', just that they don't have every single prominent Indian figure telling them not to join the war. Now, India sent the largest all volunteer force in history to this war. Now, imagine what they would send if they didn't HATE their colonists, just mildly disliked them.

Another million, hell. Closer to 2 or 3 more.

The Royal Guns (talk) 18:17, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Funny thing about that is that the Indians wanted home rule after World War I, decades before the game now. The Jallianwala Bagh massacre kinda screwed that up, and was far worst than burning someone's home down. It happened before the game and was thus out of your control. And Wikipedia even says, "the episode dissolved wartime hopes of home rule and goodwill and opened a rift that could not be bridged short of complete independence." So given that statement, the Indians do indeed hate Britain, and want independence. The troop numbers are nice and all, but the Indians still hate you. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:30, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Map games
Is it just me or have map games' popularity increased dramatically over the past few months? When I first came to the wiki, a map game was considered extremely popular if it had 8-12 edits per 3 days. Now, it's like 12-16. This game alone has 21, which is a lot of users. Thoughts? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:42, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Location
Location is how close the nation is to the place of the conflict.


 * At the war: 5


 * Next to the war: 4


 * Close to the war: 3


 * Far from the war: 2


 * Halfway around the world: 1

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1


 * Defender’s advantage: 2


 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3


 * Island: 4

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3


 * Side with greater population: 3


 * Side with greater industry: 3


 * "Big Cheese" Advantage (USA, Germany, UK, France for now): 3

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10


 * Religious: 7


 * Social/moral: 6


 * Political: 5


 * Economical: 3

Chance
Take the UTC time at that moment. (ie 21:32). Then, multiply those numbers. Any zeros count as one. Then take the declaring user's edit count. Then divide the UTC number by the edit count. Multiply that number by 3.14 Take the fifth digit in the number, and there's your chance. Then, for the opponent, take the eighth number. And there you go!
 * 2*1*3*2= 8
 * ie 2831.
 * 8/2831= 0.00282585658
 * 0.00282585658*3.14= 0.00887318966
 * 7
 * 8

Alliances

 * Every ally: 2

Result
Take (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where "x" is the amount of years the war goes on and "p" is the result of the equation ((y/(z+y))*2)-1, where "y" is the score of the winner and "z" is the score of the loser.

Winter War
Just letting you all know that a start for the war could be that the Brits and French both had plans for intervening in the Winter War against the Soviets... :) PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 19:26, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

I mean who cares about what Turkey does to Iran? Ianian58 (talk) 01:41, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I care! We brits got oilfields there! Look out Viva. Persia's getting it's land back. The Royal Guns (talk) 17:13, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey

 * Location: 4 (It is within Persian territory).
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 9 (Greater Industry, as well as SECRET Soviet Support and the support of Italy).
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 9
 * Time declared: 17:32
 * 1*7*3*2= 42
 * Edit count= 706
 * 42/705= 0.05949008498
 * 0.05949008498*3.14= 0.18679886683
 * Fifth digit:
 * Alliances: 2 (Soviet Union)
 * Total: 30

Perisa

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 3 (Greater Population)
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 8
 * Ally: 0
 * Total: 28

Result

 * Close Turkish Victory. Turkey can take 0.03448275862*(1-1/(2)) or 1.72% of Iranian land. That calculates to 329 pixels of land to be awarded to Turkey.

Discussion

 * Since no mods have done it, and the war would go on forever it not. So I decided to do it. Enclavehunter (talk) 21:34, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry bout that, but users who start wars have to do their own war algorithm unless they have a habit of rigging their algorithm lol. Also, for chance, I have decided that I'll do the PM type chance thing effective today, I'll do the chance thing based on the recent edits section. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:36, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I should mention Italy offered its aid, and Turkey had 16.3 million people (source), compared to Persia's 13.7 million people (source). ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 21:41, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. I just did this, because I can see the war going on forever. Go ahead and fix it. Enclavehunter (talk) 21:48, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Aren't we in the time of the Great Depression, where wars are obviously expensive, and would be greatly unpopular, and considering how young Turkey is, and their wars comming off as without reasons, I can't see people in Turkey being happy, nor can I see Turkey pushing me (Persia/Iran, same thing) all the way to Tehran, considering Persia's age and recent 'prosperity' (if you can call it that) and Turkey's age. Ianian58 (talk) 21:57, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Persia's military was practically non-existant at the time, while Turkey had a military force large enough to beat off three European powers (Greece, France, and Britain, at the same time BTW). Age isn't much of a factor also as most of the military equipment and personnel where carried over into the Turkish military. Also, I spent time rebuilding and expanding my military for the sole purpose of invading Persia, adding onto my OTL military force of 175,000 (by WWII, not my actally military size). Persia's government came into being after 1927, making Persia five years younger than Turkey (got its independence in 1922). Also, public opinion isn't a factor since for the first couple of years, the Turkish government painted the invasion as a holy war, and considering most of the population is still highly religious, it worked. And finally, Turkey had been far more thoroughly industrialized the Persia by WWII. By the time the wa came around, Persia was just developing into an industrial power. Even today, Iran still lags behind Turkey militarily an industrially. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:07, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Here- I did it, Turkey gets 329 pixels of land- I'll do that. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 22:18, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

WOAH WOAH WOAH. Persia's army was NOT nonexistant, it was MUCH stronger than the Turkish! And BTW, aside from India, China, and Russia, Iran would probably be the strongest nation in Asia! And, the Turkish hadn't undergone any militarization since 1920, while the Persians have been working flat out since 1925! Next, Turkey wasn't a belligerant in WWII, so I have NO clue where you're getting this from, ESPECIALLY since Turkey's army of 200,000 would have been DWARFED by the armies of ANY other belligerant! Also, Turkey was by this point, in government matters HIGHLY SECULAR! A Holy War would have violated Turkish LAW! Persia's government has been around for quite some time, actually. A simple wikipedia check shows this. It is the SIMPLEST thing to find out about from wikipedia!

"A series of protests took place in response to the sale of concessions to foreigners by Nasser al-Din Shah and Mozaffar ad-Din Shah between 1872 and 1905, the last of which resulted in the Iranian Constitutional Revolution and establishment of Iran's first national parliament (majles) in 1906. However, Mozaffar ad-Din Shah's son Mohammad Ali Shah wished to recover the power lost by his father, and so rescinded the constitution, bombed the majles building and abolished parliament in 1908. The struggle continued until 1911 when Mohammad Ali's forces were finally defeated.

In 1925 Reza Khan, Prime Minister of Iran and former general of the Persian Cossack Brigade, overthrew the weakening Qajar Dynasty and became Shah. An ardent nationalist, Reza Shah initiated policies of military, administrative and financial modernisation and centralization.[75] Industrialization, the construction of the Trans-Iranian Railway and the establishment of a national national education system system can be named as some of his reforms. However, in 1941 he had been forced to abdicate in favour of his son,Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, by Britain and the USSR, who were both fearful of Reza Shah's nascent ties to Germany and in need of supply lines for the Allied war effort in the form of the new Trans-Iranian Railway."

Basically, all your 'facts' were made up! The Royal Guns (talk) 21:43, September 7, 2012 (UTC)<

So the population stats here, here, here, and here, along with the information about the Turkish and Persian militaries here, here, and here, along with the fact Turkey had already undergone modernization as stated here, are all made up? The fact that the same source you just quoted from also stated that "When the Pahlavi dynasty came through power the Qajar dynasty was already weak from years of war with Russia. The standing Persian army was almost non-existent." This is why research and not just quoting a bunch of facts that do nothing to explain the size and strength of the other side is important.

The Persian Military was able to bring up 135,000 well-trained troops into the battlefield, how is that non-existant? Ianian58 (talk) 22:14, September 7, 2012 (UTC)</li>

By the way, you would still have to train and equip those 135,000 men. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 02:45, September 8, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

First, where do you see that. And second, you just shot yourself in the foot. In 1927, the Persian military only 40,000-men strong as stated in the Cossack Brigade shown by Guns. The Turkish military had more than 400,000 troops as shown in their war for independence. You just said that Turkey could muster an army to fight Persia in the 1930s, despite the fact that the Turkish military was larger and better equipped than the Persian one, which until after WWII, after the Soviet and British invasion, began to grow to a force that could fight another force. It was until the 1970s as stated in their article about their military history, that they became a regional power. Up until that point, Turkey was the region power, which means for the next 40 years, your military is no threat to Turkey. Also, the Turks had 137,000 soldiers during WWII, and were prepared to fight the Germans, who if my history proves me correct, had destroyed numerous other nations before hand. Persia was still under the influence of the Russians and British, and lost a fight against them. The Persian military may have been about to muster 135,000 troops, but Turkey had that number of troops already, plus, in the three years before you joined, I had already double the size of the military for the invasion, and have more men than you already. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:24, September 7, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

I don't deny the fact that Turkey has a larger military than mine, yet, a fact is true, Persia was able to muster around 135,000 men; yet the size of an army is not all, yet invading without no reason is going to stir some nationalistic feelings, and considering the Algorthim was so close, even with your army almost tripiling mine, I can turn the current war around. So why not just continue? Ianian58 (talk) 23:40, September 7, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

Well I'm sorry about that then. I just don't appreciate it when people such as Guns intervene and call the facts taken from multiple sources (hence not my facts), all lies. And you thought the war was ending? I'll end it if you want, and continue if you wish. And as I stated already, the Turks view the invasion as a religious war, so we are fighting to two completely different reasons. I only invaded because no one was playing as Iran when the game started. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 00:30, September 8, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

Well I don't plan to invade Turkey, even if I had the capibility I wouldn't. I would find it almost silly for the Turks to view it as a religious war, and even if they did it would be vice-versa in Perisa with the threat of Perisa disappearing, meaning it really makes little gain, but anyways, keep the war for the current turn then come on to some cease-fire or something, maybe? Ianian58 (talk) 03:03, September 8, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

Okay. I'll focus my endeavours into a new target. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 03:08, September 8, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

THIS CANNOT BE A RELIGIOUS WAR. Turkish law means this must be secular. Seriously. Whatever, though, different sources will always disagree so I'll go with yours, viva. The Royal Guns (talk) 17:16, September 8, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li></li></li>

I'm a bit confused abut that last part, and I am fully aware of Turkish law. However, 9/11 for instance, most people in secular America, were talking about how God ould bless the troops, the terrorist worshipped an evil god, so on and so on. Being in a secural nation doesn't prevent the government from using religion as a tool push their agenda. And it certainly doesn't prevent the people from viewing it that way. Politicans have been going to religious figures forever, even in secular nations, to get the blessing of their god or gods. Why? Because the people who vote for them are religious. Obama did it. Bush did it. Cliton did it. Go over to Turkey and I'm pretty sure a number of politicans have made some trips to their local mosque to get the blessing of an imam. So to the people, this is a religious conflict. And I can change the law if I feel like it, but I haven't because I don't need to. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 17:24, September 8, 2012 (UTC) </li></li></li>

No, you can't change the law, any more than George Bush could. Sure, you can say 'God Bless our troops', but you cannot, repeat CANNOT make it an issue like you have made of it. You CANNOT call it a holy war. Sure, you can get them on your side, but you can't proclaim it to be a holy war. Ok? The Royal Guns (talk) 18:10, September 9, 2012 (UTC)</li></li></li>

As the ATL ruler of Turkey, I can. Why? Because I'm the friggin' ruler of Turkey. And since the Turks were still highly religious, and still are today, repelling the law would not be too big of an issue unless the YOung Turks tried something to stop me. So I CAN call it a holy war, and I already HAVE. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:26, September 9, 2012 (UTC)</li></li>

No, you frigging can't. Any more than Scraw can. America is as religious as Turkey, back then, but they like their religious freedom, and so do the FRIGGING TURKS! IF you did that, then I missed it, because it is so damn implausible, its not even FUNNY! And you would get the kind of Mod events like what Sodom got! (well I'm not Christian but that's the closest thing I can imagine.) The Royal Guns (talk) 19:35, September 9, 2012 (UTC)</li>



Yugoslavia

 * Location: 4 (they moved to attack greece)
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 9 (Hungary, Italy, Turkey)
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 8
 * Time mod did algorithm: 21:08
 * 2*1*1*8= 16
 * Edit count= 44
 * 16/44= 0.3636363636
 * 0.36363636*3.14= 1.418181704
 * Fifth digit: 8
 * Alliances: 2 (Germany)
 * Total: 27

Greece

 * Location: 5 (It is being invaded and the yugoslavs are within their territory)
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 24 (France BC, United Kingdom BC, Romania, Bulgaria, Greater industry and population)
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 0
 * Alliances: 4 (United Kingdom, Romania)
 * Total: 45

Result
Currently a crippling victory for the Balkan allies. Greece can take 6.25% of Yugoslavian territory, or 56 pixels of land.

Discussion
Don't change it, if you have a problem put it here, it's why I put the discussion bit, and we needed an algorithm for it sometime. Kunarian (talk) 15:36, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Algorithm finished. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 21:17, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

There goes Yugoslavia; also, I'm kind of surprised various countries are at war, considering the world is still reeling in the Great Depression. Ianian58 (talk) 22:15, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Heh, Greece can take 6.25% of Yugoslavian land, and can take more if the war goes on longer or if Greece attacks. Greece got 6.25, when they should have taken 12.5%. But, Greece was defending, so they got cut in half. Simple? PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 00:21, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Italy (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Italy (L), Yugoslavia (M), Hungary (M): 10
 * Greater population: 3
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 5 (Political)
 * Chance:
 * 23:27
 * 2*3*2*7= 84
 * 84/4077= 0.02060338484
 * 0.02060338484*3.14= 0.0646946284
 * Fifth digit: 9
 * Alliances: 6
 * Total: 41

Bulgaria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Bulgaria (L), Greece (M), UK (M,BC), Romania (M): 16
 * Motive: 10 (Survival)
 * Chance: 2
 * Alliances: 12
 * Total: 47

Result
Decisive Bulgarian victory. Italy is kicked out of Bulgaria.

Discussion
Unless I'm missing something, Bulgaria wins. ChrisL123 (talk) 00:27, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Italy: 4+1+10+3+3+5+9+6 = 41
 * Bulgaria: 5+2+13+10+2+12 = 44

Lol sorry I'm dead tired and messed up the math :P PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 01:00, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Trolling Bulgarians are trollful. Ianian58 (talk) 03:35, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Also forgot big cheese bonus Kunarian (talk) 07:48, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * We just hang around with our Balkan buddies doing what we do best. Kunarian (talk) 07:48, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * We just hang around with our Balkan buddies doing what we do best. Kunarian (talk) 07:48, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Can't I take Rhodes from them, that's a realistic conquest Kunarian (talk) 10:46, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Italy (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Italy (L), Yugoslavia (M), Turkey (M), Hungary (M), Soviet Union (M): 16
 * Greater population: 3
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 5 (Political)
 * Chance:
 * 23:27
 * 2*3*2*7= 84
 * 84/4077= 0.02060338484
 * 0.02060338484*3.14= 0.0646946284
 * Fifth digit: 9
 * Alliances: 6
 * Total: 47

Greece (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece (L), France (M,BC), UK (M,BC), Bulgaria (M), Romania (M): 22
 * Motive: 10 (Survival)
 * Chance: 2
 * Alliances: 10
 * Total: 51

Result
Close Italian victory. Italy gets 1.08% of Grecian territory.

Discussion
Another algorithm well done :D I'll post the pixels later. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 23:33, September 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * For Greece, 5+2+16+10+10+2=45. Italy's fine, but Greece wins. ChrisL123 (talk) 00:20, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * For Greece, 5+2+16+10+10+2=45. Italy's fine, but Greece wins. ChrisL123 (talk) 00:20, September 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * You forgot Hungary and the Soviet Union. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 00:26, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * you also forgot the big cheese bonus to the UK and France, which would mean this is a greek victory.Kunarian (talk) 07:46, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * you also forgot the big cheese bonus to the UK and France, which would mean this is a greek victory.Kunarian (talk) 07:46, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Soviet Union (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical advantage: 1
 * Strength: USSR (L): 4
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 5
 * Chance: 0
 * 1*2*3*4= 24
 * Edit count: 5230
 * 24/5230= 0.00458891013
 * 0.00458891013*3.14= 0.01440917782
 * Alliances: 0?
 * Total: 20

Mongolia (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Mongolia (L): 4
 * Motive: 10
 * Chance: 7
 * Alliances: 0
 * Total: 28

Result
Total Mongolian victory over Soviet forces. Soviet troops pull out of Mongolia with heavy casualties.

Discussion
Went completely the other way I thought it would lol. PitaKang- (But here's my number | So call me maybe) 02:38, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Romania (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: UK, France, Bulgaria, Greece: 18
 * Greater population: 3
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 5 (Political)
 * Chance: 5
 * 00:33
 * 0*0*3*3= 9
 * 9/54= 6
 * 6*3.14= 18.84
 * Fifth digit: 0
 * Alliances: 8
 * Total: 47

Hungary (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: Soviet Union, Turkey, Yugoslavia, Italy, Argentina: 15
 * Motive: 10 (Survival)
 * Chance: 9
 * 11:01
 * 1*1*0*1= 1
 * 1/508= 508
 * 508*3.14= 1595.12
 * Fifth digit: 1
 * Alliances: 10
 * Total: 51

As Hungary's player, I refuse to acknowledge this algorithm. There are tons of misspelling, it looked like it was done on the fly, it doesn't even mention how much land Romania received. I haven't even done anything to provoke Romania yet, and there is no chance number. Romania may have a larger military, but I highly doubt they could take so much Hungarian land. I haven't been able to access the computer lately, so I had no idea Romania declared war on Hungary. Can't a counterattack be possible? Stewdio333 (talk) 10:51, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

I must agree with this. The algorithim is sloppy and practically impossible to understand. The Soviets, Argentines, and the Spaniards are also involved in this conflict (Argentina not directly but is supplying TUrkey who is doing most of the fighting). ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 17:37, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yep. I've crossed it out. Stew, you can do it yourself if you wish. Unless the other, senior mods disagree... though, frankly... The Royal Guns (talk) 17:50, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, everybody. I have nothing against a plausible Romanian victory (like 5-10% of land is plausible), but half of the country? Sorry for sounding so rude though. Also, the Eastern half of Hungary has a slightly higher population than the west, which would make it harder for the Romanians to control, even if they successfully conquered the region. Stewdio333 (talk) 19:40, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I did the algorithim to the best of my ability, and this will only remain here until PitaKang returns to do a better job than I. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 17:56, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Japan (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: 0
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 5 (Political)
 * Chance: 9
 * 17:09
 * 1*7*0*9= 63
 * 63/1023= 16.23809523809524
 * 16.23809523809524*3.14= 50.98761904761905
 * Fifth digit: 7
 * Alliances: 0
 * Total: 29

China (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical Advantage: 2
 * Strength: 0
 * Greater population: 3
 * Motive: 10 (Survival)
 * Chance: 4
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * Fifth digit: N/A
 * Alliances: 0
 * Total: 24

Result
Stretegic Japanese victory.

Discussion
Here you go. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:21, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Turkey (Belligerent)

 * Location: 4
 * Tactical Advantage: 1
 * Strength: Italy, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Soviet Union, Argentina: 15
 * Motive: 5 (Political)
 * Chance: 9
 * 02:06
 * 0*2*0*6= 12
 * 12/760= 63.33333333333333
 * 63.33333333333333*3.14= 198.8666666666667
 * Fifth digit: 6
 * Alliances: 10
 * Total: 44

Bulgaria (Defendant)

 * Location: 5
 * Tactical advantage: 2
 * Strength: Greece, France, UK, Romania: 18
 * Greater population: 3
 * Greater industry: 3
 * Motive: 10 (Survival)
 * Chance: 4
 * 12:16
 * 1*2*1*6= 12
 * 12/819= 68.25
 * 68.25*3.14= 214.305
 * Fifth digit: 0
 * Alliances: 8
 * Total: 53

Result
Bulgarian Victory.

Discussion
Once again, until PitaKang returns, I have nothing more to say on this. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(18:15, September 9, 2012 (UTC) </li>

Not sure about industry, definete yes to everything else. The Royal Guns (talk) 20:19, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

The PMII Factor
lol. Following PMII's start, only this has continued. BFER stalled, everything else kinda died. LOLOLOLOL. The Royal Guns (talk) 20:21, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

STOP THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Hold it hold it hold it. This game is getting ridiculous. Bulgaria and Greece resisting Italy? The fierce well trained postman like Soviet military pushed out Mongolia? This is getting out of hand. Except the Sino-Japanese algorithm, all the rest are with ridiculously reversed algorithms. I suggest a retcon back to 1935 or face an ASB tag.

Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:34, September 9, 2012 (UTC)