Talk:Vive la Revolution! (Map Game)

France
Just so to correct a small fact: France OTL is still a monarchy and will be until 1792; and in 1789 Louis is still in absolute power de jure. France will become the revolutionary Kingdom of the French only in October of 1789; anything earlier than that, Louis is still in control of an absolute monarchy. Fed (talk) 17:53, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

thanks fed, i didnt know that to be honest, and thats NOT sarcasm DeanSims 17:55, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Map
I'm sorry, but we need a map. Can a mapmaker please obtain one? Monster Pumpkin 18:40, February 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Already done. ChrisL123 19:15, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Colonies
Is there some way to play as the spanish coloneis that are about to emancipate from the mother country? I want to play as the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata (Argentina), may be a could play the colony as a kind of "vassal" of Spain until the indepencende, the local government was anyway very de facto autonomous by the time. Also, I'd like to be mapmaker too. --Galaguerra1 18:44, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

sure, you have my permission, where is the games real creator though, it would be nice if he would join us. Britain will support you if you declare independance. But start by wrting that Dissent against the crown is rising for a turn or two. DeanSims 19:19, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Be calm, I know my own country's history. I'm not thinking about getting independent until, at least, 1810 decade. Until then, I will being administrating the viceroyality. --Galaguerra1 19:25, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Mapmaker
Hi. I'm SS and I'm playing for the Ottoman Empire. Can I be a mapmaker? I have quite some experience in maps. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:46, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

sure you can. DeanSims 15:14, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alliances
I have realized a major flaw in the game. ALL THE PLAYING NATIONS ARE ALLIED TO OTHERS! THERE ARE NO OPPOSING ALLIANCES!

For example, the USA is allied with the UK and France. France is allied with Austria and Prussia. Austria is allied with Russia, Prussia, and the Ottoman Empire. What happens if a war erupts? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Alliances
Okay, in under a day, this has gone wild implausible. Why the hell with Britain & the US, bitter enemies, ally?! And why would Austria, Russia and Prussia, the principal counter-revolutionary forces and in Austria's case MARIE ANTOINETTE'S HOMELAND WHOSE BROTHER IS IN POWER be friendly with France? AND WHY THE HELL IS FRANCE INVADING ME WITHOUT EVEN GIVING A REASON AND GIVING ME TIME TO ARM UP LAST TURN?! This map game is just RWG trying to turn this into yet another of his Napoleon wanks.

To add to this:


 * Turkey and Austria are mortal enemies and will be until the XX Century.


 * Russia, Austria and Turkey are competing and warring permanently.

Fed (talk) 23:22, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Near to every nation France is diplomacing with was counter-revolutionary.

Prussia is not an ally with France, and is quite sore over the monarchy's overthrow. I'm not sure on the other parts. Monster Pumpkin 23:24, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Basically, the picture at right demonstrates the alliances now. And I agree with Fed. How exactly are the Brits and Americans allies? The US just won the revolution! And US-UK tension didn't calm down until the 20th Century, around the late 1890s! Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:33, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I would like to piont out that Prussia's only ally right now is Britain, as they only signed a non-agression pact with Austria. Monster Pumpkin

Let's see the implausible in the graph:


 * US and Britain allied


 * France and Britain


 * Austria and Prussia


 * Austria and Russia


 * Austria and France


 * Ottomans and Russia


 * Ottomans and Austria

... Yeah. Nothing implausble at all, right? *sarcasm* Fed (talk) 23:38, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

And yes, the invasion of France was just downright implausible, especially since Fed didn't post in 1789.0. And technically, Prussia is a French ally, since it is allied with the UK and Austria, both of whom are allied to France.

And Selim III, in actual history, attempted to end the Russo Turkish War of 1787. And here, his goal is accomplished, since the Russians accepted here. And the Ottoman Empire was also at war with the Austrian at the same time; Selim III also tried to end this war, and did in success here. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:41, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Peace isn't equal to friendly enough terms for an alliance. Fed (talk) 23:42, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Just because you are allies with someone does not mean you are allies with their allies; Prussia is angry with France at the moment. Monster Pumpkin 23:43, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I (Austria) am willing to give up my alliance with Russia and the Ottomans and only keeping my alliance with France (as well as non-aggression pact with Prussia.) ChrisL123 00:03, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

America is willing to give up my alliance with everybody, and become isolationists. Enclavehunter 00:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

All alliances should be dropped, and the game should be restarted as per the proposal below. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Proposal
I propose that we start the game again at 1315 EST tomorrow. Everything will start again, including who plays for which nation. And we should ban some implausibilities. Or we could revise the entire game. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:43, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I say let the people keep their nations, but restart the game. Enclavehunter 23:44, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Enclavehunter. And RWG, could you PLEASE read a little about the early phases French Revolution? Fed (talk)

Some of the players in the game are wrongly using the power of their nation. I think Spain, Russia, the US, the Ottomans, and the Viceroyalty can keep their players. The others need to be re-assigned to different nations.

But if you disagree, that's fine. But RWG cannot retain France. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 23:49, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

What has Prussia done to lose their player? All they have done is invade a German Duchy and establish a colony. Monster Pumpkin 23:51, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think everybody keeps their nations, but allowed moderators to delete implausibility without warning. Enclavehunter 23:54, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

This oh so much. Fed (talk) 23:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, sorry Monster Pumpkin. I forgot Prussia was playing. Prussia is probably the only country that has not done anything implausible.

Nah it cool. But really, we do need a method of rooting out impluasibility. Monster Pumpkin 00:02, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

MY PROPOSAL: ALL IN FAVOR?
 * 1) Everything so far is erased.
 * 2) Everyone keeps their nations except the UK and France. France because it is being too imperialistic and the UK for implausibly siding with Napoleon.
 * 3) Restart the game in1800, to make everything different.
 * 4) Mods can immediately delete implausibility.
 * 5) All ongoing wars continue raging.
 * [[Image:IMPERIAL NY-SPQR 1.png|25px]] Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:07, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enclavehunter 00:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Only to conditions 1-3. I think that the Spanish-French war should not be happening at the moment, and that mods at least explain why it is impluasible. Monster Pumpkin 00:09, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * ChrisL123 00:15, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Fed (talk) 03:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * TacoCopper 03:09, February 20, 2012 (UTC)(all of them except 4, I agree with Monster Pumpkin, if you just deleted I probably would have thought someone did it by accident and just put it back up there, that and no one would know what they did)
 * I will stay as the UK, but the rest I agree to, I can tone down my pro-French feelings. DeanSims 15:17, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

By ongoing wars, I mean wars that are happening at the start of 1800 in OTL. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 00:12, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm in favor. If we're gonna start in 1800 then may be the UK will be not an "ally" but an enemy of the Viceroyality. I think may be Spain should react before some of the policies that the "revolurionaries" will implement on the Rio de la Plata. --Galaguerra1 01:41, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

We need one more vote for a majority. But does the new Japan guy count? Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 03:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Lets restart the game, the mods and mapmakers all get one vote each. someone please make a poll.

First of all, sorry for causing the trouble. My proposal is that the wars are cancelled and that we can choose a new nation. How about that? RandomWriterGuy 19:38, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

THE FINAL PROPOSAL FOR VIVE LA REVOLUTION!
POINTS: FORBIDDEN: ALL IN FAVOR?
 * The Game shall start in 1800 Common Era and shall begin 00:00 UTC on February 21, 2012 (tomorrow).
 * Any wars that are happening OTL in 1800 shall continue unless a peace is reached.
 * The moderators will first tell someone their post is implausible. If the player does not fix their post, it can and will be erased.
 * Everyone can keep their nations.
 * Napoleon's France and the United Kingdom cannot be allies.
 * The British shall not be allies with the Viceroyalty.
 * Anything that was posted in 1789 cannot be reposted.
 * Invasions are variant. No country can invade another country unless their casus belli is approved by the mods.
 * The United States cannot be allies with the United Kingdom until 1870. (Close enough to the 20th Century)
 * Implausibility of course!
 * France cannot invade any nation until two years after Napoleon's rise to power!

ALL IN FAVOR? Agreed Against

What about: France has some sort of "Revolutionary limitations" until the factions are stabilised, and the absolute monarchies (Spain, Austria, Turkey, basically every nation in Europe but Britain) have "absolutist limitations" or "Enlightenment limitations" until the revolutionaries are at least partially satisfied, in which they cannot invade as many nations or do as many expansion and military turns? ~Fed

How about we can choose different nations if we like. (or switching them with other people). RandomWriterGuy 22:22, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

My POV On Things
Now I'm not saying that I should have overhwhelming say in running this map game, but as its intellectual creator, and a player, I believe I should have a say in what goes on here. I simply ask that the starting year be kept at 1789, or simply be pushed forward to 1792 to keep the original idea of the map game intact. This is of course nonbinding to anyone else who plays or mods this game, but I simply ask for you all to reconsider on my behalf. Ownerzmcown 22:10, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

At last we find the creator. By all means, 1792 seems like a good compromise between '89 and 1800. 1792 is the starting time in the proposal then.

And 1792 is a reasonable year. GW was elected to his second term, but Napoleon CANNOT come to power yet. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:28, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I am glad you have all seen reason, this compromise is hopefully the starting point of this site's next big map game, here's hoping. Ownerzmcown 22:47, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

When does the game re-start? Fed (talk) 21:42, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I started it, not sure if it's cool with any of the mods, but seeing as you had all agreed to with all this....I decided to go on- Ianian58 (China)

By the way, can the mods control France's actions together as some sort of "mod event"? Given the focus of this map game, we kinda need a France... Fed (talk) 02:57, February 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, seeing as France's player traded, we could have one of the other countries trade. I could do it, seeing as I'm a mod myself. We should have a kind of election on who wants to play France and then we vote for it. ChrisL123 03:02, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

So?
A simple question...When do we pass the turn? --Galaguerra1 16:52, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Since nobody has started the next turn, I assume the mods are a bit lazy, have forgotten, or don't have time, I will start the next turn, I ask any mod to delete it if it's not right. Ianian58 19:06, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Anglo-American Peace Treaty
The Treaty of London

 1.  The USA will cede OTL Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota to the United Kingdom. The USA will be compensated.

 2.  The United Kingdom will cede Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to the United States.

 3.  The United States must not expand past this treaty’s borders until 1845 unless it is in a military/expansion venture with Britain.

 4.  The United States must NOT ally with France, Russia, or any of those two nations’ satellite states.

 5.  The United States will not interfere in European affairs unless on a join Anglo-American mission in Europe or with the United Kingdom’s allies.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 6.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  The United Kingdom will allow Native Americans in the USA’s territory to be moved into British land as to increase American settlement in America’s lands and possessions.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 7.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  All expansion before 1845 must be approved by the United Kingdom.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> 8.<span style="font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">  The United Kingdom will not expand into any American territory unless sold honestly and legaly by the USA to the United Kingdom  UNLESS  the United States declares war on the United Kingdom, in which the United Kingdom will be forced to act.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"> Needed Signatures: Britain: DeanSims 16:19, February 25, 2012 (UTC) America:Enclavehunter 16:19, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

South Africa
I want to ask, because I'm pretty confused here. How is it possible for the UK to expand further into South Africa if they never had a presense in that particular area, and the area around South Africa, particularly the Cape of Good Hope, belongs to the Dutch? Razgriz 2K9 16:48, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

they had it at the start of the game, check the map.

The British or the Dutch? From what I saw on the map, the Dutch (that would be me) had South Africa. I did not see any British presense in the general area of Southern Africa, though granted, the map hasn't been updated. Razgriz 2K9 17:34, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Cape colony is Dutch right now and will be OTL until 1795. Fed (talk) 19:51, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Britain made a colony from what I understand. Map games don't always have to follow OTL history. ChrisL123 20:01, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Siam and Burma
Currently, only Burma has the color, Siam should as well as they are in loose confederation. LurkerLordB (Talk) 01:19, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Since no official mapmaker did anything, I fixed it myself. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:16, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I wasn't sure where Burma was. I asked in the Isuses section. Then today I looked it up and went to fix it and saw that you did it. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 02:02, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Chinese Claims in Alaska.
That map there, is the map of Chinese claims. ~Ianian58

Um, Russia had already begun colonising Alaska (it discovered it in 1733) and it had several Russian outposts. It was not incorporated until about 1799, but your claims conflict with Russian trade posts. Fed (talk) 01:34, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

I believe Alaska was mainly uncolonized by the Russians; although you are right, some claims here are interferng with Russian ports, Alaska remained largely uncolonized until the mid-late 19th century, sure, some Russian populace here and there, some official cities here and there, but Alaska remained still largely uncolonized. I'll make an edited map tomrrow though. Ianian58 01:47, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Brtain has establihsed several colonies on the Pacific Coast, estpecuialy around OTL Anchorage, Seattle, AND sAN fRANCISCO. DeanSims 15:10, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

PS: THESE HAVE BEEN THEIR FOR AT LEAST A FEW TURNS BEFORE cHINA'S. DeanSims 15:10, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Ottoman-Persian War
In 1795.5, the Ottomans will have peace with Persia and give large areas in southern Persia to the Dutch and British in thanks for their help. I have a proposed map. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:56, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Britain agrees, but says that the OE should annex more of Persia, as many died in this war. DeanSims 17:26, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Quite so, but wish to show them some mercy. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 19:14, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

yes, dont commit any massacres, and be nice to civillians. Britain would like a little more land as well, but not very much more. DeanSims 19:19, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Spanish-Pact of Iron Peace Talks
Let the talks begin. DeanSims 19:32, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Spain shall: here is the PoI Proposal -- The rest Spain will agree upon.
 * Give independence to its viceroyalties in a Commonwealth-like plan, since your cassus belli is 'imperialism by Spain'. The exception to this is Cuba and New Granada.
 * Grant a heavy tribute to the PoI.
 * Hand over claims to Oregon in exchange to Gibraltar.
 * Accept special trade exceptions frpm the PoI.
 * Be given Gibraltar
 * Spain will not have to pay tribute.
 * Spain will pace all of its North and South American possessions under control of the PoI Council, and they will be granted indepdance through a system of commonwealth status.
 * Gibraltar will be ceded to Spain in return for nothing
 * Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola, and OTL Chile will be allowed to remain under Spanish control.
 * Spain shall retina all of its European possessions
 * OTL Louisiana Territory will be ceded to the UK as well as OTL' Republic of Texas.
 * The states of Mexico, New Granada, Peru, Chile and Rio de la Plata shall be given independence directly with the King of Spain as head of atate and a democratic or monarchic (fir for them to decide upon.) head of government.
 * Louisiana and Texas will become a co-protectorate of the UK and Spain.

No offense, but I think giving Louisiana and Texas to Britain is ASB. Try sharing Louisiana with the US and UK and give Texas to the US. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:11, March 4, 2012

alright, Louisiana will be split between the UK and USA with Texas becoming a Republic.

Makes sense. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 20:21, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

alright, I will make aproposal map. here it is



Bingo. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 21:02, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Location

 * At the war: 5
 * Next to the war: 4
 * Close to the war: 3
 * Far from the war: 2
 * Halfway around the world: 1

Strength

 * Every nation militarily helping with belligerents/defenders: 3
 * Side with greater population: 3
 * Side with greater industry: 3

Tactical Advantage

 * Attacker’s advantage: 1
 * Defender’s advantage: 2
 * Home is desert: Defenders +3, attackers -3
 * Island: 4

Motive

 * Life or death (country’s sovereign existence is threatened): 10
 * Religious: 7
 * Social/moral: 6
 * Political: 5
 * Economical: 3

WHY?!
Whay is every one trying to threaten Spain? It has done nothing to harm us! RandomWriterGuy 22:38, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Can I ask why we rolled back the game again. I don't know what implausiblity has happened.TacoCopper 16:02, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Because Canada received independence and so thusly changed to whole game. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 18:15, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Australia
The Ottoman Emprie has a proposal for Australia.

the british offer this divison of Australia and that no one cross those borders in the future. if another antion colonates there, we three will respond by force to remove them.



Prussia wants Tasmania, as we have trading posts there already. Monster Pumpkin 20:20, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Britain has held Tasmania for several years before Prussia.DeanSims 20:25, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

What year did you first gain it? It was never shown on the map and I never saw you saying that. Monster Pumpkin 20:28, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

tasmania is thought be an island of Austrlaia, and when I siad i was colonatiing austrlaia i also sent some to Tasmania. DeanSims 20:31, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really going to accept that. If you know what the place is called then you should say that you are colonising that specific place, not using a generic term because then other players are not sure what is happening, as in this case. Monster Pumpkin 20:34, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I just want that little island. I had it since I became a mapmaker. I secretly colored it Ottoman green. Here's my proposal: at right. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:19, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

And if you guys are disagreeing, we might as well give the whole Australian and Zealandian continent to America or Russia or Austria-Hungary. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:19, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

You can have the island, but I landed at Tasmania, and I want it. That's it. Monster Pumpkin 22:22, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

tasmania is britsh, but the british will give you the bahamas if youo give up tasmania. DeanSims 22:27, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

i dont like the map, i have to go. i yhave my colonies where they are, and they will stay there unless the below map is accepted: i will have to do this tomorwo guys, im going to los tres amigos tonight, it has awesome grilled chicken and chips and salsa. tomorow we will talk, i promise. DeanSims 22:27, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

All right. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 22:34, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Here's another proposal. Syngraféas Enallaktikí̱ Istoría, Dic mihi lingua Anglorum. 04:41, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

i accept it, and Prussia can have Tasmanaia, as it is a Pact ember,a dn it deserves to be treated as an equal to Britain, not a subject. DeanSims 16:21, March 11, 2012 (UTC)