Talk:Fractured America (Map Game)

Sorry to be the one to do this, but there is a rule prohibiting ATLs, Map Games, or other scenarios, based off of published material. CrimsonAssassin 17:49, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Crim is correct. If you'd have actually waited until hearing back from me, I'd have even told you such. Lordganon 20:31, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Signed Up
Since this game was redone, I decided to sign up for it as China. I think having 7 moderators is excessive, a moderator-player ratio would be better. Maybe have it be for every 2-3 players, 1 moderator? Also, since it is past 10/22, do we just sign up now? LurkerLordB 20:31, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Map
The map is a little small and pixelated. Mind if I get a clearer map to use? ChrisL123 21:16, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah,the Ethiopian Empire needs to be on the map. It should be southeast of the Ottoman Empire in Africa, and should encompass almost all of OTL Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Northern Somalia. Thanks. Azecreth 15:13, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

So... when do we start?
Are we going yet? Are we still waiting for people? Is it inactive before it even started?

Also, do we have just one person in charge of the map, or can anyone edit it? I would volunteer to help out with it. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 05:15, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Should we start now? I will post something to get it started I guess... LurkerLordB 02:31, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Philippines
Who gets the Philippines TTL? USA or CSA? Godfrey Raphael 12:30, October 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * It still belongs to Spain. It didn't change hands until the Spanish-American War in 1895. But I personally believe the US and CS would have more important things on their plate right now than attacking colonies on the other side of the ocean. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 15:30, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep!82.2.72.108 15:15, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Okay...
This is already getting implausible. How did Mexico get taken over in one or two turns? That's ridiculous. I like Civil War map games, but they tend to get infamously implausible. 166.248.68.173 02:36, October 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * I know, I was wondering that myself. However, at the time, Mexico was in a social state of collapse (with French troops fighting to try to establish a monarchy and that), and I would see the US and CSA making sure that France couldn't get a strong foothold in North America that can be used against them later. I would let it stand for now. Lieut. Tbguy1992: Profile; Talk 05:23, October 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * That's just it: the French and the US got along really well. Nobody in Europe participated in the Civil War because it would disrupt alliances, trade, and all sorts of things. Also, even if Mexico is in disarray, the US invading would break alliances, not to mention capturing it in less than a year is wickedly implausible. CrimsonAssassin 18:48, October 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Americans would also NEVER annex Mexico. There was too much opposition in 1848, that's why it didn't happen, and there would only be slightly a bit less now. It would also cause international havoc which the USA would never want. Fed (talk) 00:51, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah just to let you guys know, I'm joining this game as the Netherlands VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 15:48, October 30, 2011 (UTC).

Right, to make this game more plausible, we should have a war algorhythem as well as the stablity thing used in Principa Moderni included. We should also have more mods for plausiblity checks and dates/guidelines for specific reaserch, with countries which are millitaristic having more millitaristic reaserching capability etc. Also what should we do about the US thing over Mexico? Imperium Guy 20:53, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Stability probably would be hard to do, as that requires someone to do a lot of effort. Since France had partially taken over Mexico in real life, I would say that it was realistic to win the invasion, but all three nations would probably have to continue putting down resistance for the next several years. LurkerLordB 22:35, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Why were the two new turns added? We haven't finished this one yet. Doctor261 12:13, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I do think 1865.5 was yesterday, so it would be 1866 today.

Alright. Deleting the half-year.

Doctor261 13:06, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Is It Too Late?
I just wanted to know if it's too late to sign up, I would like to play as Brazil, FYI. Ownerzmcown 14:02, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead, mate. It's not too late. ;) Doctor261 14:02, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Complex
This is getting complex. People should only post diplomacy where they have posted their general thing for the half year. Otherwise, it would get really complicated!! :/ Imperium Guy 19:36, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

What do ye' mean? Doctor261 19:58, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Right, so my method would be However, the way its now going is Country3 thing: completely different to anything going on.
 * Country1 thing:
 * Country2 Diplomacy:
 * Country1 Diplomacy:
 * Country3 Diplomacy etc...
 * Country2 thing:
 * Country3 Diplomacy:
 * and so on
 * Country1 thing:
 * Country2 thing:
 * Country4 diplomacy: completely poinless to Country2, intended for Country1

Imperium Guy 20:14, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

So like each year is split into sections for each country, and that country's section is then split up into events & diplomacy? With the relevant diplomacy in the relevant country's diplomacy section? VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:23, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I think so, something like how Axis vs Allies Revised worked. :D Imperium Guy 08:52, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really support this idea. This seems kind of messy.... Doctor261 09:59, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Just go and see how they set it out in Axis vs Allies Revised, it is much clearer than this!! :D Imperium Guy 10:30, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

You mean something like...


 * US: sdjghkjghkjdshfhj
 * Lol Lolita: HJKHAJKHASKJFHKJASDFH
 * WTF Diplomacy: WASHDJKASHDKJHDASKJ!?

Is that's like that? Or... I don't understand?

Doctor261 11:00, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yes something like that:
 * US:dtyfjkcghcyry
 * Lol Lotita: GVCHHYGBHUOHUGH
 * WTF Diplomacy (intended for Lol Lotila): HJDBNFNJFJFJFJ, WHFBFN.
 * D [[Image:1.png|23px]] Imperium Guy 12:43, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

^Ye that's how I meant it. Sorry I should of given an example to clarify after such a bad explanation :P But I do think that is how some people are trying to set it out (well I am at least, cause it is a bit all over the place) so maybe you could clean up the past events to adhere to those styles and then ensure that this style is maintained for the rest of the game. Maybe set out each year with the country title, for ppl like in Dawn of the Dark Ages, 500 A.D. (Map Game). Just some thoughts from me, VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 13:22, November 1, 2011 (UTC). Oh also have spaces inbetween each country's post at the very least so it looks a bit more broken up on the editing screen please VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:00, November 1, 2011 (UTC).

The maps
Could we have a map put up at the end of each year so we can see the progress of the game over time please, rather than just updating the map at the top continuously, as ppl who may not post regularly or go on a break (like DeanSims) may be a bit confused to see how things have happened since they last posted. Just to make things easier to comprehend, more visually pleasing and more maps in the map game; VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:00, November 1, 2011 (UTC).

I agree, but this should probably make a lot of lag. HEY, if you came here for wikia, you should know - there will be many pictures to download, so yeah. I agree with you. Doctor261 14:15, November 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Is that two ppl talking in that above post? Besides to solve ur lag problem, simply have the pictures small like 200px, then it shouldn't lag too badly. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 16:49, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, we could have it in the beginning of each year. ChrisL123 19:31, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah yearly of course, otherwise it'd be too messy. Sorry I didn't mention the frequency to put up the maps did I? :P ~VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:40, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Mods
Should Lx become a mod (we are doing this diplomatically, to please everyone) ;)

Should Lx become a mod? Yes No Unsure Imperium Guy 17:12, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Can I vote for myself?LxCaucassus 22:52, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't matter' you have a decent majority. :D Imperium Guy 16:46, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

56% majority(not counting me), guess I'm approved thenLxCaucassus 03:43, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

War
How will we handle war in this game? By an algorithm like in Principia Moderni, something simpler, or by simply agreeing by consensus who wins or not?LurkerLordB 22:28, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Would say algorithyms, but they should be trustworthy. Maybe a more complicated version of the AvAr algorithym might do us nicely!! :D Imperium Guy 19:58, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

I would also say that mods watch over wars and act as back-up to any flame wars. :D Imperium Guy 19:59, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. common sense should apply, vicotries will count by point differential, like ig you win by 10 points its a big victory, and for wars lasting over 5 years there will be multipl algorithms I propose.LxCaucassus 01:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Rule addition proposal
well, I will propose some new rules regarding mods, wars and the such as proposals

Proposals

 * 1) Unless contradicted by other rules, Mods are god, they can create random events, economic downturns, or other events
 * 2) Mods have no authority whatsoever in affairs dealing with their nation(unless they post in in a nation post, not a mod post, AKA, somebody can make a coup in their nation by will), this inculdes wars directly involvin a front that is related to the nation(meaning they are the "label" of the front). this is to prevent bias.
 * 3) Anybody can post algorithms, but they have to be approved by a mod before they are official.
 * 4) mods can be dishonorably discharged by a formal USERNAME comunity 2/3 supermajority vote.
 * 5) there can only be an odd number of moderators, to ensure a majority in a moderator vote.
 * 6) An algorithm may be used for wars between player states and between a player state and an NPC. It will be based off of Principia Moderni and AvAr algorithms.
 * 7) Additions to rules are to be decided via concensus of all players

Discussion

 * Concerning rule 1, rather than all mods having the god like powers, I think a overall mod without a country should be given this position/power. I say this cause I think the mods might abuse those powers to weaken their foe's nations.
 * Rule 2 I think doesn't stop the mods using their powers before they invade a far off colony.
 * Rule 3 I think could lead to loads of algorithms being posted and their being a struggle to decide who's to use. But it could be easily voted to solve so this isn't much of a problem.
 * Rules 4 & 5 are fair. Rules 6 is more of a proposal than a rule but I do support that proposal.
 * Finally rule 7 is fair but will be broken in this vote if the 16 players don't all vote and the mods decide, which I do not deem fair. VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 14:50, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Rule 2 doesnt but lets just say if the mods do a mod action and then invade unprovoked then lets just say taht can count as abuse and grounds for suspension of modship(can be detailed later), rule 3 lets say first come first served, but anyone can post one and the first one generaly wont be right and be used as framework for changes. Rule 7: I said concensus, not vote, concensus. so if the general feeling is yes then its yes, if there are too many objections and the feeling si no then its no.(concensus will come into force once 9 people vote yes then its a majority)LxCaucassus 18:08, November 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * and I forgot to add this, althug this will probably become just a custom: comunity votes(all users) will be in the form of polls, moderator votes will be "hand Votes" aka username signature votes. what each is used for can be detailed later.-Lx (leave me a message)

Voing
(there are 16 players, I expect to only see 16 votes, if not, we resort to moderator username vote only)

Should these be added to the rules? 1. yes 2. no


 * I fix the poll. --Katholico 01:58, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * thanks, now I vote for yes!LxCaucassus 02:03, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * the bill is passed-Lx (leave me a message) 19:40, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Draft war algorithm
Location: 

War is in your nation: 5

War is in country adjacent to your nation: 4

War is two or more nations away, requires military acess through nations to reach: 3

War is across an ocean: 2

Terrain: 

Terrain at the front is mountainous: -3 attacker, +3 defender

Terrain at the front is desertic: -2 attacker, +2 defender

Terrain at the front is urban: -1 attacker, +1 defender

Amphibious invasion: -2 attacker, +2 defender

Luck:

Determined by RNG, confirmed by Mods

Foreign factors: 

Presence of foreign expeditionary forces fighting for your side: +2 for each

Receiving military aid from other nations: +1 for each

Number of wars you are engaged in besides this one: -2 for each

Presence of guerillas in occupied territory: -1

War beginning factors:

Surprise attack: +2 for attacker, -1 for defender

Nation is mobilized for war: +2

Casus belli for war: +2 if one is present

Domestic factors: 

War weariness: -1 for each turn war has been going.

Larger population: +2

Larger industrial base: +2

Country is under blockade: -1

Country has no international trade: -2

Population centers under enemy control: -2

Industrial centers under enemy control: -2

Capital under enemy occupation: -3

Popularity of government:

Loved = 3

Liked = 2

Tolerated = 1

Not Liked =0

Hated = -1

Controlled press: +1

Wartime economy: +2

Rebellions within your nation: -2

Reason for war: Same as AvAr

Public approval of war: Without Casus Belli or life or death reason -1. Rises if those two are present.

Opponent is hated enemy: +1

Usage of chemical weapons: +3

this takes more important factors into account, prevents alliance spamming, allows minor nations to resist, but gives major nations a chance at victory. Land lost is determined by Mods. Suggestions are welcome.Azecreth 16:54, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

War Algorithm proposal 2
Ok, I based this off the Principia Moderni Algorithm that Ditectivekenny engeniously concocted. the equasion for chance is to have it be checkable by moderators(people can lie when they post random.org numbers) and to avoid disputes.

Location
L ocation goes by nearest military base

 § at the location of the war or border invasion: 5

 § next to the location of the war: 4

 § close to the location of the war: 3

 § far from location of the war: 2

 § other side of the world: 1

Tactical Advantage
 § attacker's advantage: 1

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § knowledge of landscape: 2 <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">​ OR
 * <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">this counts if:
 * <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">Defender has had territory for 30+years
 * <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">Attacker has owned territory attacked withing the past 30 years.

Strength
<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Participants: material aid-2 pts and military-3 pts if a material aid nation withdraws, the nation loses 1 point if the war isn’t over 3 years after withdrawl. For military aid nations, the aided nation looses 1 point if the aiding nation changes sides(the other nation gains however only 2 points)

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § country has developed military: 1 for each turn dedicated to military or military technology in the last 15 years. This resets after every war

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § expansion: -1 for every turn used for expansion in the past 10 years, as it uses resources and money.

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Major tech advancement on your side: 5

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> ​alliances gain you one point

Motive
<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened): 10

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is religious: 7

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is social or moral: 6

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is political: 5

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is economic: 3

Chance
<p style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> 0 to 9 points will be awarded to each person based on chance. Factors will be the opponent's edit count @ the time of decleration of war and aknowlegement of war witch will then be divided by the precise time when the country declares war or acknowledges the other's declaration of war(only hr. and min.) or The product of the non-zero digits of the time by UTC (0:00 yields 1). The result is multiplied by pi and the hundredths digit is the amount of points that person gets (e.g. 123.8377 yields 3). We will use Random.org for NPCs

Discussion
Is it all fine? are there any objections? perhaps we could combine both?-Lx (leave me a message) 17:31, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

I would say a merger of both would give us one of the best algorithym possible in map games!! :D Imperium Guy 17:48, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah sort of merge them! I agree, this also gives this game its own unique algorithm rather than copying over algorithms which is always good, <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 19:39, November 8, 2011 (UTC).

War Algorithm v3
Location <p style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">L ocation goes by nearest military base

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § at the location of the war or border invasion: 5

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § next to the location of the war: 4

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § close to the location of the war: 3

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § far from location of the war: 2

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § other side of the world: 1

Tactical Advantage
<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § attacker's advantage: 1

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § knowledge of landscape: 2
 * <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">this counts if:


 * <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">Defender has had territory for 20+years
 * OR
 * <span style="font-size:10.0pt;      mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica">Attacker has owned territory attacked withing the past 20 years.

Strength
<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Allies: for each ally ther will be 1 point

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Participants: material aid-2 pts and military-3 pts if a material aid nation withdraws, the nation loses 1 point if the war isn’t over 3 years after withdrawl. For military aid nations, the aided nation looses 1 point if the aiding nation changes sides(the other nation gains however only 2 points)

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § country has developed military: 1 for each turn dedicated to military or military technology in the last 15 years. This resets after every war

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § expansion: -1 for every turn used for expansion in the past 10 years, as it uses resources and money(unless done by mercenaries, then -0.5 as only $$$ used)

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Major tech advancement on your side: 5

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Population: number of digits in population(100 000 000 = 9, 100 000=6), 2 pt bonus may be granted for larger population if both nations have equal digits in populaiton(ex. 15 000 000 and 50 000 000, 50 000 000 gets +2)

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § Larger industrial base: +2

Motive
<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is life or death (country's sovereign existence is threatened or nuclear threat): 10

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is religious: 7

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is social or moral: 6

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is political: 5

<p style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 30pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> § motive is economic: 3 Governement Popularity
 * Loved: 2
 * Liked: 1
 * Tolerated: 0
 * Not Liked; -1
 * Hated: -2
 * COntroled press: 1
 * negative moderator event in past 10 years:-1

Ajudiciations

 * Terrain at the front is urban: -1 Attacker/ +1 Defender
 * Amphibious invasion: -2 Defender/+2 Attacker
 * Defending nation is island: +2 Defender/+2 Attacker
 * Ajudiciations must remain in the -1/+1 format
 * Additional adjudications may be added by neutral mods (ex. China invades Siberia-its friggin cold, -2A/+2D, Saudi Arabia invades Yemen, they’re both desert nations, no adjudication)

Other

 * Country has no international trade: -2
 * Populaiton center occupied: -2
 * Industrial centers occupied: -1
 * Opponent is hated by nation: +1
 * Usage of Chemical weapons/WMDs: +3(only available after 1890)(opponent gets +1 in motive for each use)
 * Nuclear Arsenal; +10(only available after 1950)(opponent gets automatic 10 in motive)

<h3 style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">Chance <p style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> 0 to 9 points will be awarded to each person based on chance. Factors will be the opponent's edit count (as indicated by the edit count on the profile of user x) and witch will then be divided by the precise time when the country declares war or acknowledges the other's declaration of war(only hr. and min.) or The product of the non-zero digits of the time by UTC (0:00 yields 1). The result is multiplied by pi and the hundredths digit is the amount of points that person gets (e.g. 123.8377 yields 3). We will use Random.org for NPCs

<h3 style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 17.25pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"> Discussion Well, I made a compromise of both, what do you people think?-Lx (leave me a message) 19:54, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

30 years seems a bit much for the tactical advantage considering the game has only gone through 8 in-game years :/ maybe 20 years instead? Also the use of mercenaries in expansion doesn't seem right to be, especially since we don't keep track of money in this game so you could just say your always using mercenaries when if reality your country might be bankrupted. <font color="#000000">VonGlusenburg (talk to Von!) 20:14, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

And thats why, moderators exist. So people dont just keep using loopholes in the rules and 30 years is if you know the territory. but ya, 20 will work. I say only max. Remember, not many mercenaries can do expansion on a massive scale, to a certain extent, the only quasi-mercenary group to actualy do a decent ammount of expansion for a nation are the cossacks witch were the driving force for the russian conquest of siberia.-Lx (leave me a message) 21:28, November 8, 2011 (UTC)