Talk:Great White South

Worldwide Climate
Though this is intriguing, would not the whole history of civilization be radically different if there had not been an ice age such as laid down so much ice in not only Antarctica, but also Eurasia and North America? The world would most likely have been temperate over most of the land masses for much longer, giving rise to the unhindered expansion of the human race to most points of Africa, Europe, and Asia. With no land bridges, though, the continents of Austraila and the Americas would be accessed only after the utilization of watercraft (but that also being a lot sooner).

Though not ice covered, the points furthest north and south would have been colder than most of humanity would have wanted to inhabit. It would have only been with the need for natural resources that these regions would have been in demand. With a point of departure so far back in the past, far more than a southern tundra would be seen here. SouthWriter 16:08, March 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I reworded it. —NukeVac (Talk) 16:29, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am assuming that the periodic ice ages (allowing for argument's sake the evolutionary geological model), would be similar to those that left glaciers in North and South America, Europe, Asia and Austrailia. This then would still have left NO massive ice sheet covering most of what we call Europe and North America today. I don't wish to spoil your scenario, but I am "afflicted" with ADD and tend to have a "perfectionist" view on these things. [By the way, what is called "ADD" probably is not a "disorder" but rather a strength allowing for "genius." :-) ]


 * The point is, though Antarctica would be little changed, with only nomadic indiginous peoples, the course of civilization in northern Europe might be quite different without the struggle the northern peoples (Germanic and others) had during and after the "last" ice age. Likewise, Amerinds would be more likely to be migrations along the coasts by sea-faring Asians and Africans. Perhaps some Austailian and Malasians would also make it to both Antarctica and South America (to SA via Antarctica?).


 * Meanwhile, Europe would be more than likely civilized by ancient Greece much sooner, maybe even to the conquering of Roman forces in the east. There would have been fewer "Barbarians," though, and Rome may have much larger at the time of Greek expansion. Either way, Grecian culture (assimilated in OTL by the Romans), would prevail. The Nortic peoples may never have arisen, their being more temperate weather further north. If they had, they may have been the original inhabitants of the British Isles, which would not have had a land bridge due no late Ice Age. The Nordic peoples, then, would have sailed the seas, colonizing Britain, Greenland, and the American Northeast.


 * Goodness, I've created a whole new time line! Sorry to bother you with it. I'll be following what you do with colonizing a deglaciated Antarctica. [I had a thought that might help stay closer to OTL -- move the POD to a late Ice Age astroid strike that changes the climate of the southern hemisphere only. I am not sure of the physics, just a thought.] SouthWriter 17:45, March 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not only are you an expert on the South, you happen to be an expert on the Deep South ;3. I have ADD too, and I like the idea of an asteroid warming up the continent. But I still have some work to do with it. —NukeVac (Talk) 01:37, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Contest like thing, or whatever you would call it because I am not too sure


Greetings to anybody who is reading this. I wanted to try something different with TTL. I have made up only three nations on Antarctica, and I did that on purpose. I did this so others can make up their own nations on the continent. If you are interested, let me know and I will add it. If I add your nation, you have the liberty to expand, add, and develop the history for it.

I have made a base map so you can see how Antarctica will look in TTL. This is also so none of your nations are overlapping on mine. Hope this all works out. —NukeVac (Talk) 01:41, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks to all who have made contributions. I am making another rule for this "contest" to help clear things up. You need to create a subsection to this section ( === Section name === ) and describe your nation or idea in some detail. Secondly, please do not mention or create any joining history or mentioning of New Swabia, Ognia, or Bellinsgauzenia until I have their histories up. Though it hasn't been a problem as I can see, here is something I forgot to mention, please be courteous. Don't make a large nation out of what is free area, please save some for others who may want to play. Thank you all again. --NuclearVacuum 17:00, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Proposed geographical sections



 * For what it's worth, this is the way I envision the opening up of the continent in the twentieth century. The line down the center divides the earth into Eastern and Western Hemispheres. The arrows point to the three oceans next to the major continents. West Antarctica is "south" of the Atlantic, under European (NATO) influence. The center of the continent is under the Pacific, and most probably under Australian and New Zealand (ANZUS) influence. On the other side of the central glacier-covered mountains are two sections essentially under the Indian Ocean. I figure it could be "divided" by South Africa and India, the two most populated areas closest to it. SouthWriter 14:30, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * What is this? Is it geographical or political? I don't understand. --NuclearVacuum 17:04, April 7, 2010
 * (UTC)

Actually, a little of both. I was making assumptions based on proximity to the oceas and who "controls" the oceans. However, I just came upon another map at the West Antarctica wikipedia article (that's Orgnia, TTL), It shows the historical claims to the Antactica. And basically it is according to proximity or who got there first from the northern Hemisphere. By the way, the area of New Swabia is called "Queen Maud Land" in OTL, and is claimed by Norway. It has "settlements" of Germany, South Africa, Russia, and Japan along the coast. SouthWriter 18:24, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Like you said, you need to think about the whole timeline. Since the continent is habitable, more nations would fight for the continent. I don't believe that the Colonial powers (the UK, Russia, France) would do most of the claiming, while the colonies (Chile, Argentina, Australia) would get zip. Also, New Swabia is what evolved into TTL NS. --NuclearVacuum 19:46, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just read the article on New Swabia. It's scary to contemplate what a South Atlantic Base on the tundra might have meant to the German war effort. The more hospitable land would allowed for an airbase and then full scale attacks on South America, New Zealand and Autrailia. Depending on how strong the Russian defenses were on their side of the continent, the south Pacific may have been one of the German fronts as well. Of course, if they were fighting much in the southern hemisphere it might have reduced their effectiveness against Russia in the north. SouthWriter 21:01, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I believe the nation would have formed in the same period as OTL, and would be a pro-Nazi puppet state. Since it is such a new region, little could be done in the region, and little support could be helped by Germany with the beginning of WWII shortly after. One idea I thought about was that Argentina would take control of New Swabia after the surrender of Germany, but before the end of 1945. Juan Perón is an outspoken Hitler supporter, would allow the fascist nation to grow, while the Allies would keep them from expanding. Maybe in the 70s, movements would be made to give more democracy to the nation. --NuclearVacuum 21:08, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Dominion of Eduarda



 * How about a British country descended from a former colony. Mumby 14:41, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Berkner Island


Perhaps Berkner Island was used by the British as a prisoner colony (like Australia); and later a civilian colony was started, which eventually became this country. This would open up a non-Russian aspect of the Continent, and possibly mean a British presence in Antarctica in World War II. - Mister Sheen 18:14, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm... interesting idea. --NuclearVacuum 19:56, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but actually, when I look at a map of Antarctica, Berkner Island is closer to Chile and Argentina. Perhaps it should be an ex-colony of one of those countries, or of Spain, instead of Britain. - Mister Sheen 20:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter. --NuclearVacuum 21:00, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, but I actually think the idea of an Argentine- or Chilean-owned island would be quite interesting. - Mister Sheen 22:36, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well one of the reasons I am allowing others to make up nations for this timeline is because I always make predictable decisions. So this is your nation, you may do what you wish with it. Feel free to make an article about. Have fun. --NuclearVacuum 23:26, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I've started off an article: Santiago (Great White South). - Mister Sheen 19:48, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

A Scandinavian colony
I was thinking a good choice for a nation to colonize part of Antarctica would be either Denmark or Norway. I know Norway had the ability to travel this far south and currently owns Bouvet Island, Peter I Island, and Queen Maud Land in the Antarctic. But another part of me thinks Denmark would be better suited to colonizing this land given there experience with Greenland which would be very similar to Antarctica TTL. Anyways what do you think?--ShutUpNavi 16:57, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally I think that's a great idea, and either Denmark or Norway would be good choices for this (though Sweden had the most powerful colonial empire in Scandinavia; that was actually before the Antarctic colonization in TTL). Both Denmark and Norway were invaded and occupied by Germany early in WWII, which would possibly complicate things with the German colony here. Also, in TTL, Santiago is the favourite destination for Norwegian-Antarctic immigrants, but I don't think any of that really matters. - Mister Sheen 17:21, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

The South Pole
Given that there are genuine countries on Antarctica in TTL, I think the South Pole would presumably have a designated neutral area around it, to prevent national borders getting too close. I think it would have to be, under international law, purely used as a research station; and a neutral place where, for example, Soviet and American scientists could work together peacefully.

It would probably have only a small population, and they would basically all live in the actual South Pole Station. Control of the area would likely belong to the Americans, like in OTL; or to the UN, as some kind of non-Country area (like all of Antarctica is in OTL). - Mister Sheen 10:39, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

New Swabia
When is someone going to get to creating an article for New Swabia?

Yankovic270 00:52, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

First off let me say that this is a unique and interesting timeline. However I have to question the plausibility of New Swabia. I doubt that the Germans would have enough time to establish this colony, or anything other than a small military base in the time mentioned here. 5 years or less is not enough time to start any kind of permanent settlement, let alone one big enough to become its own country. Further more it seems weird that a democratic country would still use fascist symbols.

I still think this page might be able to work. My suggestion is that New Swabia or a similar country is established sometime during the German Colonial Empire. This would give it more time to be established. It could also give us a longer history section, concerning what happened in the colonial era and during WWI and its aftermath. Later on it could ally itself with Germany during WWII. Anyways is anyone interested in my idea?--ShutUpNavi 02:30, April 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like the idea. I am not much of a German historian, but a Russian historian. If you have any interest in working on New Swabia, you can if you want. —NuclearVacuum 19:45, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Thank You. When I get the chance I think I will take you up on that offer.--ShutUpNavi 20:16, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Rivers and lakes
Since settlements usually need to be built along some sort of fresh water I thought this map might come in handy. It shows Antarctica's sub-glacial lakes and rivers. Check it out. --ShutUpNavi 03:11, April 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Navi. From the looks of it, the pre-frozen continent had abundant rivers flowing from the mountains. Even in TTL, with a thawed, but still very cold, continent, these rivers along the edges would flow during the long "summer" (our winter), when the sun is up most of the day.SouthWriter 14:23, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Wars
Will there be any wars on Antarctica in TTL? It seems possible (with British, Argentines, Russians and Germans on the continent) for there to be an "Antarctic Front" to World War I (Britain & Russia vs. Germany), World War II (same as WWI), the Cold War (Britain vs. Russia), and/or the Falklands War (Britain vs. Argentina). I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I think having one or two wars on the Continent would be an interesting thing to try. - Mister Sheen 13:39, April 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have nothing against it what so ever. I am not much of a war creator, so what ever ideas you have in mind, put them on the table. --NuclearVacuum 19:23, April 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright then, based on the wars I suggested above: We can strike off WWI - given that New Swabia is only founded in 1939, there is no Central Power presence (unless Santiago or Ognia happen to join the Centrals); WWII seems much more likely - there are German, British and Russian bases, as well as a nearby Pacific Theatre. I think a small Antarctic Theatre of WWII is quite a good idea.


 * It seems almost impossible for the Cold War not to happen, in some form: there are HUGE Soviet (Bellinsgauzenia) and Capitalist (Eduarda) areas; and since Santiago will probably be a haven for Argentinian leftists, fleeing from Videla's "Dirty War", Santiago will likely be labeled a 'Communist' country, which would push them into an alliance with the USSR. I don't know who New Swabia will side with; but Ognia seems like it would be a pro-Capitalist country, given their bad history with the Russians.


 * As for the Falklands War, I actually don't think that would affect Santiago-Eduarda relations; and wouldn't become an issue in Antarctica. But perhaps more wars between Ognia and the other countries could happen. Anyway, I think some kind of Cold War-era conflict would be the largest, most likely, and most interesting conflict. - Mister Sheen 22:20, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I really doubt that there would be a meaningful "front" in Antarctica during WWII. The settting is too remote, and sending forces or supplies would be detrimental to both sides. This is because there is no strategic sense sending troops and guns to a far-away colongy when there are legions of enemies next door.

Yankovic270 00:25, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * My thinking behind the Antarctica in WWII business was that it would be like a small-scale version of the East African Campaign (EAC): fighting would be done between colonies, using the resources they already had available. In the EAC, there were only about 10,000 Casualties, and the war lasted only until 1941 - likewise, I think that an Antarctica Campaign would have minor casualties, and wouldn't last particularly long (especially since New Swabia is going to declare itself independent and neutral, part-way through the war). But I think that there would certainly be one (however minor), given that Eduarda (British) and New Swabia (German) actually share a border. - Mister Sheen 10:01, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyhow, I've started off a World War I article: . You might want to fix it up/expand it, as I don't particularly know how Bellinsgauzenia or Eduarda will act. - Mister Sheen 17:40, April 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Very nice idea indeed. I wanted to clear up some stuff if you don't mind. First off, I am considering making New Swabia form earlier instead of keeping it in sync with OTL. So potentially, Santiago may have an ally in Antarctica after all. Also, if I may make a small quote, "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally." (BTTF =P) Bellinsgauzenia was not a nation during WWI, it was a Russian colony. That's all I have to say for now. --NuclearVacuum 18:56, April 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Having New Swabia earlier on in history would be interesting, and would presumably lengthen the Antarctic war a fair amount; but since the Germans lose the war, and have all their Colonies taken away by the Allies, surely that would mean that New Swabia would no longer be a pro-Axis area in World War II? Oh, and just asking, how many countries do you think there will be in 1914? - Mister Sheen 22:57, April 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was thinking of something along the line of New Swabia becoming a British colony after WWI, but would become German once again with the rise of Nazi Germany. I believe New Swabia would remain neutral during WWII. As for the number of countries, I am not too sure yet. If no one else comes up with anything, I guess I will fill them up myself. So hold onto that question. --NuclearVacuum 04:25, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, New Swabia becoming German again could work; would that happen by a German invasion of the colony; or by a Rebellion against the British; or some other reason altogether? For the countries, I think that France would presumably have reached Antarctica by this time; and possibly some smaller Argentine, Chilean and Scandinavian settlements. - Mister Sheen 09:53, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Contest ending and new direction
Hello all. I am so happy that there are so many interested in this timeline. Out of all the timelines I have started, this one is the most active.

Well anyway, I wanted to announce that I am ending the "create your own country" contest, as it has somewhat died down. I will add a "Scandinavian country" and a Neutral South Pole. The rest of Antarctica I think I will make the rest of the nations myself, but leave them completely open for others to adopt and work on as their own. But if there are any ideas that haven't been posted, yet... tick-tock tick-tock.

As for the new direction I have in mind, well... I am going to be opening this timeline to all those who want a piece. Meaning, I want this timeline to be much more active than it is now, and me just working on it by myself is no fun. So as of right now, this timeline is open for all ideas and opinions. Feel free to write, I know I will love it.

I also want to give KingSweden for his original idea on the. --NuclearVacuum 00:58, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it's no surprise that this TL is so active, it's one of the best I've seen! Just wondering, though, is Antarctica going to be mostly colonial or independent? French and South American colonies seem likely; as well as Australian and New Zealand areas (though Bellinsgauzenia seems to have occupied the areas which Australia would likely colonize). Perhaps a joint Aus-NZ region on the coastline between Bellinsgauzenia and Ognia; and a French area between Eduarda and Bellinsgauzenia (based on the French control of Kerguelen, etc.); with the South Americans taking the regions around Santiago. That would leave the space between Ognia and the South Pole open for someone else; as well as the space between Eduarda and the South Pole.


 * ...But I'm rambling now. I doubt whether any of this makes sense, based on my current state of sleep-deprivation; and I'll try to be more understandable later. - Mister Sheen 21:45, April 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Antarctica would have all independent nations on it. Here is something you need to consider. Antarctica was discovered in 1820. The colonial powers at the time (primarily Russia since they made the discovery, but also France and the United Kingdom) would have the first dibs on the continent. The next in line would be Chile, Argentina, and the United States, but would be highly limited to free land there. Antarctica (as I predict) would be colonized and full by 1900-1910. Nations such as Australia and New Zealand (which recently gained their independence) would be out of luck when it comes to gaining colonies. Maybe statements would be formed by them, but I believe these nations would have very little to do with Antarctica. --NuclearVacuum 19:04, April 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * My thoughts behind Australia / New Zealand were that: the British colonize Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Antarctica. Certain parts of Antarctica are considered part of the Colony of Australia; and other parts belong to New Zealand. When Australia and New Zealand become independent, they still control their respective areas of Antarctica. - Mister Sheen 22:57, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Blank map is here
Good news everybody. I have created a vector image showing all the nations of Antarctica. It's quite easy to use. You can use it by using Inkscape or a word processor. --NuclearVacuum 21:44, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've put together an Orthographic blank map, too. - Mister Sheen 11:09, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, guys. I put a section on the map pages about how to get around using compass headings in Antarctica. The "blank map" here (and the ones filled in the articles) are oriented along the meridian-antimeridian line (north-south) and the 90 degrees E & W (east-west) line. This is the orientation being used in the articles, but I felt the clarification might be good for those occasional readers that will be visiting this month due to the "Featured" status. Keep up the good work. SouthWriter 19:28, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, guys. I put a section on the map pages about how to get around using compass headings in Antarctica. The "blank map" here (and the ones filled in the articles) are oriented along the meridian-antimeridian line (north-south) and the 90 degrees E & W (east-west) line. This is the orientation being used in the articles, but I felt the clarification might be good for those occasional readers that will be visiting this month due to the "Featured" status. Keep up the good work. SouthWriter 19:28, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, South, the compass points on a South Pole-oriented map have been bugging me for a while. East and West are still there, defined by the Greenwich Meridian / International Date Line; but everything outwards is North, and everything inwards is South. I was considering using "Upper Antarctica" and "Lower Antarctica", but it wouldn't exactly work (eg. "New Swabia is west of Eduarda and further up than Maudland"). - Mister Sheen 21:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Whatss?
sorry, i not read complety the tl, aniway, i am working in spanish althistory, i cant help you here now, but have fun bro--Fero 23:17, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * but you need do a version of wikipedia:climate to this TL because is deep relevant
 * temperature, ¿how cold or/and hot is there? is like alaska? like siberia? like iceland? iceland is in a more ecuatorial geografic position, fot this is more hot.
 * is your antartic continent in the same geografic position that in real world souther of 60ºS? I think if Plate tectonics move in the right way and Antartic end more "near" southafrica, them history change, them human life can go to antartic, current antartic is almost sow human habitable like moon
 * you say antartic colonization start in 1900, ¿spanish empire do nothing there? i see your argentine chilean aportation in ther but spain should be around in there in that time, i think


 * Well if you read the timeline, it does answer several of your questions. The temperature is much like Siberia and or Alaska. Antarctica is in the same geological position as in OTL. The POD in this timeline is an unknown event like an asteroid/comet impact or a volcanic eruption caused the southern hemisphere to warm up more, allowing Antarctica to go through longer periods of being ice-free (much like North America and Europe). Antarctic colonization started in the mid to late 19th century (the 1800s). Since a Russian explorer discovered the continent, Russia would have much more claim and knowledge of Antarctica. I personally know very little about the Spanish Empire, but if you would like to make some contributions, feel free to (this timeline is open to all). --NuclearVacuum 15:32, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Spanish Civil War, WWII and the Cold War
Basically, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on what Antarctica's nations would do during these Wars. I have a pretty good idea of how WWII is going to go (a brief "New Swabia vs. the World" kind of scenario; with minor help from the Vichy French Kerguelen); and as far as I can tell, there is no Communist presence on the Continent throughout the Cold War (though I'm not quite sure); so the Cold War would probably not directly affect Antarctica. As for the Spanish Civil War, I assume that no Nation is going to officially enter the war. However, I think some International Brigades would be created by Leftist and Rightist citizens of many nations.

Santiago is going to drift to the Left following WWI, and there will definitely be a Santiagan unit fighting for the Republicans. I think Bellinsgauzenia, as a supporter of the Russian White Movement, would probably send men to help the Nationalists; probably with some of the New Swabian Nazi independence fighters as well. The British, Commonwealth, American, Norwegian and French areas would probably have radicals from both sides; and would send men to help both the Nationalists and the Republicans. I doubt that Ognia would get involved at all. - Mister Sheen 11:46, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Byrdia
I am thinking of expanding this article, but I have to know, why is it called Byrdia? Mitro 14:56, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Richard Byrd, American Antarctic Explorer, if I'm not mistaken; though John Davis and Nathaniel Palmer were also Americans, and they each beat Byrd to Antarctica by over a century. - Mister Sheen 15:11, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, is there any other information I should know about Byrdia? I have recently expanded the article and I tried to incorporate everything that was canon. [EDIT] Speaking of Byrd, he did not even travel to Antarctica in OTL until 1928, six years after Byrdia was named after him in this ATL. Seems a little weird. Mitro 15:20, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, that really doesn't make sense. The Timeline should probably change. Anyway, I always thought that an American Antarctic colony would likely be named "Jefferson", or "Franklin's Land", or after another Founding Father. But to be honest, there isn't much set down about Byrdia; except that it used to be Russian, so there is an element of Russian culture there; and there will presumably a small Russian-speaking segment of the population. - Mister Sheen 15:32, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Instead of going and changing everything in the TL, maybe we can come up with a better solution that requires less editing. How about this: the territory was actually called "West Antarctica" or "American Antarctica" and Byrd was the first governor-general, who pushed for major colonization in the area. After his term ended, the territory was renamed Byrdia in his honor. Thoughts? Mitro 15:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well technically, I named the region Byrdia after Marie Byrd Land, and I wasn't the one who decided to make it an American colony either. But as I said earlier, I wanted others to have fun with it. So technically, if you have interest in renaming or changing the region from what I originally wrote down, I have nothing against it at all. --NuclearVacuum 15:05, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only thing I changed was having the territory originally being called the "Territory of Western Antarctica" and than having it be renamed Byrdia after Byrd's term as Governor-General ended. Other than that I tried keeping the article within canon, but if you have any ideas about the rest of the history I would be glad to hear it. Right now I think the Russians will eventually stop being a marginalized class either in the 60s or 70s. Byrdia will also vote for independence in the 80s and sign a free association compact with the US similar to Micronesia. I was also toying with a "Green Revolution" after the news of the ozone hole being reported. Essentially a new green political party will win a majority in Byrdia. Mitro 02:48, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

When I first started working on the Byrdia article, it was written in the infobox that Spanish was a major language of the nation (not official, but spoken enough to get referenced in the profile). Now that I have flushed out the article more I can't figure out how this is possible. I know they share a border with Santiago, but I can't figure out a good reason why there would be so many Spanish speakers in Byrdia. Thoughts? Mitro 15:01, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, there doesn't seem to be any way that Hispanophones would be very prominent at all. Hispanics might have arrived through the US, but even then, most of them would probably speak English. In fact, I can't see Spanish being realistically spoken anywhere except Santiago. - Mister Sheen 15:53, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Template
I have created a proposed template for the TL. Feel free to edit it. Mitro 19:34, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ooh, I like it. Sorry, but I have been busy lately and haven't had much time to be creative here. So forgive me if I am sounding rushed. --NuclearVacuum 15:06, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

September
Hey guys, my random selector picked Great White South to be featured for the month of September on the main page. Here is what I wrote up to appear on the main page. Please feel free to edit it if you want. Mitro 17:00, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Very nice. I am still flabbergasted that one of my random timeliness would have becomes as popular as GWS. --NuclearVacuum 17:50, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well according to Wikia its September, that means this TL is now featured on the main page. Mitro 01:24, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sport
I'm thinking about a "Sport in Antarctica" article. Cricket and Rugby would probably become popular in the British areas; and Baseball and American Football would be the major sports in Byrdia. I think Soccer would be universal to the Continent (as it is to most Continents); and Ice Hockey would be very popular, too.

And of course, non-team sports like Golf, Tennis and Running are practised in basically every country in the World, so why would Antarctica be any different? - Mister Sheen 11:10, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wrote something in the news feed about curling being popular. Mitro 13:46, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a good point, I completely overlooked pretty much all of the Winter Sports, which would definitely be the staple passtimes of Antarctica. - Mister Sheen 14:13, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Ognian names for Byrdia
I am trying to come up with some Ognian geographic names for the subdivisions of Byrdia. Any suggestions? Mitro 17:56, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * There isn't much of a constructed language so far, but the articles "" and "" give some examples of Ognian placenames, and you can basically use that as a base, and invent the rest. The suffix "-ar" seems to mean "region", so Byrdian States with Ognian names might end "-ar".
 * I think there should be some English language placenames as well as the Ognian ones (and possibly a few Russian ones), though. - Mister Sheen 16:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

It was implyed that after the territory that soon would become known as Byrdia was created, the vast majority (if not all) place names were "Americanized". There could be a few places that were recently Onianized and Russianized.

Yankovic270 17:52, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

New Swabian war
I'm going to write a page on a war between New Swabia and Maudland as part of New Swabia's transistion to democracy. I was wondering if anyone thinks other nations (Either within or outside Antarctic) would get involvedVegas adict 19:14, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Norway's a NATO member, so any other NATO member might send support; and Maudland has a close alliance with Santiago, as well. But I don't think there would be very much support from outside Antarctica, though (except for mainland Norway, of course).
 * The majority of the troops would still be Maudlandic and Norwegian, but every Antarctic nation, except Bellinsgauzenia, might possibly provide support. It's up to you which ones do and which ones don't, though. - Mister Sheen 16:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

End to the Ross Dependency?
Hello all. I have been doing some thinking and I wanted to place it on the table before anything goes. Anyway, I have been doing some thinking about the Ross Dependency here on GWS. I am going to say it, I personally don't like the idea anymore, and was thinking about ending it with a party, so to speak. I am thinking about dissolving it into maybe into thee nations. Here is my idea.


 * 1) Ross Island, Scott Island, and the Balleny Islands would remain in the Realm of New Zealand. Maybe as their own nations (much like Niue) or as a federation of islands.
 * 2) The mainland would be annexed by Bellinsgauzenia (since it was historically Russian).

I am not suggesting that this be historic, but rather taking place in the now. I have mentioned on the page that the mainland of the Ross Dependency was under similar unrest that New Devon faced by pro-Bellinsgauzenian forces. But what do you all think of the idea? --NuclearVacuum 00:52, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind, really. Though it seems like the kind of thing which would have happened 10 or 20 years ago, it would be good to finally have a current event in this Timeline. I like the idea of Bellinsgauzenia annexing further Russian areas; and the idea of a New Zealander island nation.
 * Just one question: if New Zealand has governed an area as large as Rossland for almost 100 years, there are going to be quite a few Kiwis in the area - what happens to them? Perhaps New Zealand could retain a single, small port; so it has more access to the Antarctic mainland, and so there is a place for the New Zealand—Antarcticans to move to.
 * That would certainly sweeten the deal, from New Zealand's perspective. - Mister Sheen 16:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm... I think I have an interesting idea. Bellinsgauzenia has no real beef with New Zealand, the RCA (pro-Bellinsgauzenian terrorist group) does. I am thinking that maybe Bellinsgauzenia would allow a temporary period for the New Zealander settlements to remain under New Zealand occupation, but I am sure Bellinsgauzenia would feel welcome to new immigrants. I need to make a section on it, but I predict Bellinsgauzenia to be a nation of mixed cultures (much like the US). Russian-speaking black people and so on (I am not politically correct). But what would come of the three islands? Maybe I should leave that open for more debate here. What sounds better, three new nations, or one federal nation. --NuclearVacuum 17:15, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean Bellinsgauzenia would be opposed to having New Zealanders living there; I just thought that some New Zealanders (probably the majority of them) would prefer to keep their citizenship. They wouldn't be able to out-vote the Russians, but they might have some kind of impact - though on the mainland, in the long run, I doubt that New Zealand could ever keep control of more than one or two individual towns.
 * As for the islands, the Balleny Islands have been New Zealand's since the 1800s - in fact, they would probably remain a separate Dependency from Rossland, throughout their history. Ross island might become a continuation of the Ross Dependency (along with any mainland areas which New Zealand possibly keeps). Scott island could join either of the others, or become its own Dependency. - Mister Sheen 17:58, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * If Bellinsgauzenia is expanding into former Russian territory, what will this mean for the Russian minority living in Byrdia, and Byrdia-Bellinsgauzenia relations? Mitro 21:43, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think Byrdia has anything to worry about. One of the reasons that Bellinsgauzenia was able to gain the region is because of its geography. The region is located within the Transanatarctic Mountains, plus the region would be close to the south pole. Though New Zealand settlements would have been formed in the region, most of the infrastructure is located on the islands. There wouldn't have been enough resources to allow the total anglanization of the region, so it would be very easy for it to become Bellinsgauzenia. Also, Bellinsgauzenia doesn't have any real grudge against Byrida, and I think the two nations would have a good relationship. I have been meaning to write about it, but I see Bellinsgauzenia as being a US supporter during the Cold War. I think the Bellinsgauzenian-Byrdian relationship is pretty favorable, despite Byrdia once being Russian territory. --NuclearVacuum 01:34, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Time Zones
After considering how to get around on the continent, I got to thinking of the timestamps on News Reports. Just what time is it on the bottom of the world? (FYI - The South Pole is an NZST, New Zealand time)

Anyway to the right is the map for the time zones in OTL. I suppose they'd be the same in TTL. Of course, with most of the continent being inside the antarctic circle, summers (October - February) would be mostly daylight and winters (May - August) would be mostly night. One can only wonder if this might cause interesting social problems (irregularities) might arise in a society of like this (study Iceland, and Alaska for clues). SouthWriter 03:16, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

At least one Antarctic country, Ognia, would cover more than one time zone. Ognia, itself, would cover 3 time zones, becuase of where all its territory is. The way I figure it, Stanley, in the Falkland Islands would be two hours ahead of the national capital in Qouar. and some other islands to the east of that would be another hour east of that.

Santiago would be UTC-3 in the winter, then go to UTC-2 from October to April for daylight savings time. As I create flight simulator AI traffic and schedules with Ultimate Traffic, that is the time zone I have assigned to the country of Santiago. Chilly8 00:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Nature of the event causing the divergence
One possibility:

A suitably located volcano erupts, and sets off the meltdown and/or contributes to the creation of a hole in the ozone layer. Then a comet in a peculiar orbit interacts with the magnetosphere and part gets sucked down towards Antarctica.

How feasible is 'any or all of this'? Jackiespeel 18:15, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm no astrophysicist, but I don't think the earth's magnetosphere "sucks" astroids out of orbit. A super volcano, though, would have about the same affect as a large astroid impact and the residual volcanic activity on the continent would help to keep the surface relatively ice free. I'd say the volcano was not just "suitably placed," but huge! Look up Yellowstone National Park to read about the effects of a supervolcano. All you need now is an international study in TTL that finds evidence of this dormant volcano (perhaps even "over due" for eruption like Yellowstone is today. SouthWriter 21:12, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

What I meant was 'comet in an Earth-hitting trajectory' (and material entering the Earth's atmospheric and above systems). What effect would a large solar flare have (like the one in the 19th century OTL which disrupted the telegraph system etc)?

Basically - what possible combinations of natural phemomena would there be which would trigger Antarctic meltdown? Jackiespeel 21:35, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Rivers
Looking at the map, I can't help but wonder how many rivers Antarctica has? Mitro 01:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the map, Mitro. Note that some of the rivers go below sea level. Most of the rivers would only flow in the "summer" (winter in northern hemisphere) with all day sunlight and few clouds. It would probably be good for agriculture along the coasts. SouthWriter 15:49, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Airlines
One thing I have been doing in flight simulator is creating AI traffic and schedules as if some of these. I have thought of what airlines might serve the various Antarctic countries. I have already created AI traffic for an "Air Ognia", after figuring out where the various cities would be. For Kerguellen Island, I merely extended the Air France Paris-Antananarivo-Reunion run down to Kerguellen Island. For my "Air Ognia", I created a London-Cape Verde-Stanley run (being that the Falklands are part of Ognia in this TTL). I have a Las Estrellas-Santiago-Los Angeles run as well, on my Air Ognia

I think it we should somehow put it ino this AH what airlines would serve Antarctic cities. Airlines I could see, besides my Air Ognia, serving Antarctic cities would include

Air France

Qantas

Aeroflot

LanChile

Lufthansa

Scadinvavian

Aerolineas Argentinas

Cubana

Air New Zealand

AeroMexico

Varig

South African Airways

Chilly8 23:49, September 17, 2010 (UTC)