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I call italy. Flag of Russian Alaska (HR) OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM Flag of Italy (Federalist Italy) 23:12, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

I guess I will take Britain. Rex.]

I'll take the CSA CommanderOfTheFourthReich 15:21, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

No, Rex. Britain, as a world power, is reserved for the mods. Sorry. That, and Russia. Maybe the Union too.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 21:02, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Me get the Russia. Crim get the Britain. Guns get the America. Ms get the France?

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   21:20, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Dah!! WHOA! Where'd Crim get the Brits from? I wants them!

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 22:20, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

May I be the CSA? Phyrexia symbol Yawgmoth, Lord of the Wastes Phyrexia symbol

Actually someone else can take France if they want. I'd prefer to be Prussia. Mscoree (talk) 00:05, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

K, so me Russia, Guns Britain, Crim America.

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   00:17, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Monster Ideas

Please add monsters from now on to the 'Monsters by Location' section. We are currently in the process of moving this list there.

  • Cthulhu L
  • Djinn?
  • Sasquatch/Yeti/Skunk Ape/Yowie?
  • Imp?
  • Basilisk?
  • Troll?
  • Ogre?
  • Giant
  • Ghoul?
  • Hydra
  • Skeleton
  • Wraith?
  • Vampires*
  • Werewolves*
  • Mongolian Death Worm?
  • Goblins
  • Orcs?
  • Oni?
  • Cyclops?
  • Dragon?
  • Kraken?
  • Centaur?
  • Minotaur?
  • Phoenix?
  • Mermen?
  • Sirens?
  • Changelings?
  • Rubezahl?
  • The Wild Hunt?*
  • Lutzelfrau?
  • Rubezahl-Lutzelfrau are Germanic. Sirens are Greek, but also on the Rhine
  • Wyrm?
  • Beholder?
  • Mind Flayer?*
  • Kee-Wakw?
  • Wendigo?
  • Nyarlathotep L
  • Shub-Niggurath L
  • Deep Ones L
  • Mummies

Ones with * means more powerful and organized.
Ones with ? means not known if it will be in-game/not approved by a mod.
Ones with a L next to them are of Lovecraftian origin.

Also, I think that monsters should be from where the myths came from. (e.g. Cyclops in Greece/Mediterranean islands, Oni in Japan, etc.)

--Bfoxius


I assume that Cthulhu and other Lovecraftian creatures will also be making an appearance. Mscoree (talk) 00:32, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should add some Dungeons and Dragons based creatures. Any ideas? Phyrexia symbol Yawgmoth, Lord of the Wastes Phyrexia symbol

EVERYTHING! AND MORE MOOHAHAHHA! CTHUHLU WILL RISE!! 

Any monster will be accepted, and this is some massively cool code, Bfox.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 00:35, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

By the way, is it CHA-TOO-LOO, or KAH-TOO-LOO? I fall into the latter camp, as it sounds way cooler.

I say Ka-tool-hoo.

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   00:47, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, Commander called the CSA before I did, but I signed up before I read his post. Who gets it? Phyrexia symbol Yawgmoth, Lord of the Wastes Phyrexia symbol

I don't think the stuff on the talk page count as official, so try to work it out with him, or just be a gentlemen and let him have it. Mscoree (talk) 01:25, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

So the Empire of Brazil shall fight the snake people of South America. Time to bring forward antivenom research by a couple of decades. Hailstormer (talk) 16:11, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

The correct way to pronounce Cthulu is to put your tongue on the roof of your mouth and then cough out the entire word. That's what Lovecraft said. Daxus Inferno (talk) 02:26, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Monsters by Location

List here what monsters you think will appear based on location. Try to have some unique monsters appear in all major areas of the world. Feel free to move monsters from above to their sections.

The policy for non location specific monsters is that they're either listed in the South Pacific (epicenter) or placed in sparsely monster-filled areas, such as Africa.

Northern Europe 

  • The Wild Hunt
  • Some Scandinavian creatures
  • Rhine Sirens
  • Rubezahl
  • Germanic Creatures
  • Orc

Scandinavia

  • Alberich
  • álfar
  • Auðumbla
  • Dökkálfar
  • Draugrs
  • Fenrisulfr
  • Garmr
  • Geri and Freki
  • Gullinbursti
  • Gultopp
  • Hati
  • Hugin and Munin
  • Jörmungandr
  • Kraken
  • Ljósálfar
  • Móinn
  • Níðhöggr
  • The Norns
  • Ratatoskr
  • Skoll
  • Sleipnir
  • Surtr
  • Svadilfari
  • Svartálfar
  • Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr
  • Valkyries

Carribbean/Central America

  • Voodoo Zombies
  • Loogaroo (Witch/vampire shapeshifter, magical)
  • Nagual
  • Chupacabra
  • Waybob

Western Europe

  • Ogre
  • Goblin
  • Giant Mutant Wolf Things/Wargs
  • Brownie of the Lake
  • Dames Blanches, type of female spirit
  • European dragon
  • Fae - aka Fae, Fée, the origin of the word Fairy
  • Gap of Goeblin - is a "goblin hole", the legend that surrounds a hole and underground tunnel in Mortain, France.
  • Gargoyle - A beast
  • Goblins
  • Oberon - King of the Fairies. In the early Legends of Charlemagne, Huon de Bordeaux he is the son of Morgan le Faye and Julius Caesar.
  • Reynard - A trickster fox. See also Animal fables, mock epics.
  • Tarasque - A legendary dragon
  • Woodwose (aka Homme Sauvage, Wadwasa and Wild Man)
  • European Dragon

France

  • Beast of Gévaudan (Wolf)
  • Gargouille (Dragon)
  • Lutin (House Spirit)
  • Matagon (Spirit in Animal Form)
  • Melusin (Female Water Nymph)
  • Tarasque (Dragon)

Eastern Europe

  • Wookalar (Pig-Man that likes to suck brains out)
  • Vampires

Southern Europe

Greek Creatures

  • Hydra
  • Cyclops
  • Titans
  • Gorgon
  • Drakon
  • Sirens
  • Harpies
  • Furies
  • Centaurs
  • Cerberus
  • Charybdis
  • Chimera
  • Empousa
  • Graeae
  • Hippalectryon
  • Ichthyocentaurs (Underwater Centaurs)
  • Manticore
  • Minotaur
  • Lamia
  • Scylla
  • Shades
  • Typhon

Roman Creatures

  • Cacus
  • Oceanid
  • Praetorian Guard

Spanish Creatures

  • Basa-Jaun (Homme de Bouc)
  • Culebres
  • Dones d'aigua: Dones d'aigua (Maids of the Water)

Middle East

  • Bardi - a female jackal which can change shape and presages death by wailing
  • Bird of Sorrow
  • Imp
  • Kamer-taj, the Moon-horse
  • Karakura - a male night demon
  • Seven-headed Dragon
  • Shah Meran, the legendary Snake King who was killed in an ambush in the baths.
  • Taram Baba, the night demon or nightmare which is believed to kidnap children, in some Balkanic Turks' tradition.
  • Ziz - giant griffin-like bird in Jewish mythology, said to be large enough to be able to block out the sun with its wingspan
  • Mummy- A corpse that is covered in bandages and has arisen from the dead.

Central Asia

  • Roc
  • Yeti
  • Mongolian Death Worm
  • Balor (Balrog)
  • Mi-go

Pacific Ocean and East Asia

  • Cthulhu
  • Kraken
  • Nyarlathotep
  • Shub-Niggurath
  • Godzilla
  • Oni
  • Dragon (Chinese)

North America

  • Sasquatch
  • Thunderbird
  • Jackalope
  • Loveland Frog (Humanoid frog creatures, four feet tall, may be magic)
  • Plesiosaur (Champ)
  • Skunk Ape
  • Gowrow (30-foot long reptile/snake with enormous tusks, loves livestock)
  • Chupacabra
  • Deep Ones
  • Dagon
  • Mothman

South America

  • Yuan-Ti
  • Chupacabra
  • Yacumama (160 foot long giant snake with horned head)
  • Maricoxi (Bigfoot)
  • Huallepen (Chimera-like monster, mates with livestock and produces deformed offspring)

Africa

  • Beholder
  • (Voodoo) Zombie
  • Mokele-Mbembe
  • Inkanyamba (Huge Carnivorous Eel-like monster, can control weather)
  • Kongamato (Pterosaur)
  • Impundulu (Lightning Bird)
  • Gbahali (30 foot, Crocodile-like with longer legs and shorter snout)
  • Ninki Nanka (Dragon-like with the body of a crcodile, head of horse, and giraffe neck, 30 to 50 feet long)
  • Mummy- A corpse that is covered in bandages and has arisen from the dead, they can curse people.

Antarctica

  • Shoggoth
  • Elder Things

Arctic

British Isles

  • Plesiosaur (Loch Ness Monster)
  • Airitech
  • Banshee
  • Caoránach
  • Changeling
  • Ellén Trechend
  • Fáil Inis
  • Leprechaun
  • Merrow
  • Oilliphéist
  • Selkie
  • Sluagh
  • Banshee
  • Treant

Australia/New Zealand

  • Yara-Ma-Yha-Who (Vampire with octopus-like suckers to suck blood, can create more of itself from people)
  • Plesiosaur (Hawkesbury River Monster)
  • Bunyip (Spirit river monster, snake-like, human-like, and furry mammal-like)
  • Muldjewangk (Giant leech/snake-like pink river monster)
  • Yowie (Bigfoot)
  • Taniwha (Shape-shifting river monster, dangerous only to outsiders)
  • Ningen (25-30 meter long, humanoid, fins, arms, legs)

Straight from Lovecraft

Straight from the imagination of Lovecraft!

Yog-Sothoth: A Old One just as Cthulu is, but less powerful. Resembles a conglomerate of glowing spheres.

Shoggoth: Beings controled by the Elder Things, mostly extinct. Animorphous shape. Mostly aquatic.

The Elder Things: A mostly extinct species whom were mostly destroyed by the Old Ones in the early days of Earth (pre-dinasuars) and were mostly isolated a few in numbers, hiding in their own dwellings, save for the Mountains of Madness in Antarctica, their last stronghold. 

The Great Race of Yith by Fecal Lord

  The Great Race of the Yith: Dinosaur-era Swagasurouses. Extremely advanced in technology/pacifist. Would send  their conciousnesses further or backward in time to posses a sentient body for usually about a decade before returning. In the time that person is possessed they would become very anti-social and utterly frightening doing every day tasks, and that person's mind would be sent back in time in a Yith body and would write about their time period, while the Yith in their body learded 1st had about the time period. They were also socialists. 

Cthulu: The leader of the Old Ones (not Deep Ones). During the war with the Elder Things Cthulu used his powerful magic to cast a spell upon all Old Ones giving them eternal life in a very strange fashion, the Old Ones seeing Cthulu as the most powerful and being thankful, crowned him ruler. Rather than just making the Old Ones unkillable he made it so that they would slumber for extended periods of time rather than die. Despite being a massive arthropod Cthulu seldom used physical contact as a form of combat, rather he used powerful magic. The only recorded time Cthulu actually used his physical form ended in failure (i.e. having a steamboat rammed through his face and sent back to R'lyeh).

"That is not dead which can eternal lie,

And with strange aeons even death may die."

R'yleh: An ancient city located at 47°9′S 126°43′W and is described as having Cyclopian architecture and made of substances unknown to man. The entire geometry of the city is off, with obtuse angles acting like acute angles, and when the city is surfaced the ocean appears to be vertical rather than horizontal.  WikiMiniAtlasThe nightmare corpse-city of R'lyeh…was built in measureless eons behind history by the vast, loathsome shapes that seeped down from the dark stars. There lay great Cthulhu and his hordes, hidden in green slimy vaults. —H. P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu" (1928)  Abdul "the Mad Arab" Alhazred: An Arabian necromancer and devote subject of Cthulu, a wanderer, and the author of the Necronomicon. Deceased as of 738.

The Necronomicon: Written by 738 shortly before Abdul Alhazred mysterious death. In 950, it was translated into Greek and given the title Necronomicon by Theodorus Philetas, a fictional scholar from Constantinople. This version "impelled certain experimenters to terrible attempts" before being "suppressed and burnt" in 1050 by Patriarch Michael. Translated to Latin in 1228 and was banned by Pope Gregory IX in 1232, though Latin editions were apparently published in 15th century Germany and 17th century Spain. A Greek edition was printed in Italy in the first half of the 16th century. John Dee later translated the book into English sometime in the mid-late 16th century, but much of the book was lost and only fragments remain.

Regions of Practice: These are simply the regions in which the worship of Cthulu is the most predominant. They consist of: Eastern Europe, South-eastern Europe, Arabia, Western Africa (primarily Timbuktu), North-west Africa, Eastern United States, Southern United States (primarily the New Orleans region), Southern England, Southeast Asia, New Zealand, Western South America, Easter Island.

Good thinking. I'm trying to incorporate as many Lovecraftian monsters as possible. Nyarlathotep and Shub-Niggurath are already added as two of Cthulhu's main generals. The ancient city built by the Elder Things on Antarctica and destroyed in a war with Cthulhu thousands of years ago will be included. The Deep Ones and a few others have also been added. Mscoree (talk) 10:31, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Monster Organization

Now that we have a list of several monsters per region I'd like to propose the following system for their organization. I think that named creatures should act as monster leaders, a sort of boss fight. Generic creatures would appear in large groups led by these monsters. For example, Dracula would be a named monster general, who leads an army of vampires. Mscoree (talk) 16:25, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Makes sense. Could you have them be sort of 'anchors' that hold the rest in this world, so if you kill Dracula, his army disappears? At least until Cthulhu ressurrects Dracula and the Vampires Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

The ultimate one, of course, would be Cthuhlu himself. That would be the last turn, I think; his emergence.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 19:02, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

I think only some species of monsters would have the capabilities to be organized. Mostly humanoid ones. Vampires are a definite. Werewolves and yetis could travel in packs and tribes or something.

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   20:56, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

And of course you'd have uber-organized wosscalleds like the Wild Hunt.

Cerunnos would be their monster general. Or Odin.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 21:41, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

And Centaurs. Don't forget about Centaurs Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

Should creatures such as orcs, goblins, and trolls be able to form their own kingdoms/chiefdoms if they sufficiently control enough area? Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 01:51, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah if they manage to get a foothold in any specific region that makes sense. Also I don't when you kill a leader their army should disperse. More likely I think they would just act like a leaderless army and scatter to some degree. Mscoree (talk) 10:26, October 28, 2013 (UTC) 

Wōden is going to lead the Wild Hunt, as Odin already has other plans. Mscoree (talk) 14:10, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Excellent. Lets not forget the Vetala. They'll be a big challenge for the humans.

        Centriflag   Flectere si nequeos superos- Acheronta Movebo! 

I think that we should add in the Great Race of the Yith to aid humans, as in the stories they are very hostile to the Elder Things.

I also think it would be funny if Dracula went for Pennsylvania rather than Transylvania.

Also, the Mothman should get most of the United States.

BTW the Elder Things and their Shoggoths are hostile to the Old Ones so they really would never team up. Daxus Inferno (talk) 20:59, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Initial Outbreak

Since we don't have a set date set for the initial monster outbreak, I want to get everyone's opinion as to when they think the monsters should first appear. Sounds like a lot of people are anxious to have the monsters come sooner later than later so it might be interesting if we have them come on the first or second year so we can get right into the action. Let me know what you guys think. Mscoree (talk) 22:33, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should have them appear immediately; so we start on Halloween. But they get progressively harder as time goes on; just starting with easy ones, like goblins, werewolves, etc. Then we move up to Vetala, the Wild Hunt, so on, as technology- and fighting techniques- improve.

        Centriflag   Flectere si nequeos superos- Acheronta Movebo! 

I think there should be 1-2 years with some rumors but nothing big happening, then small things like ships and expiration groups disappearing, leading up to the monster attack in the mid 1870's. Daeseunglim (talk) 10:39, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

That would be kind of boring don't you think? Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

I kinda think that small monsters should get out at the beginning, but they are just seen as hoaxes or not real, until about turn 3, when something vanishes, then the word gets out. Phyrexia symbol Yawgmoth, Lord of the Wastes Phyrexia symbol

I still think that would make the start kind of dull... Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

I say we have a few turns (like three or four) in which weird occurences start to occur. Then suddenly the apocalpyse hits. It can escalade from there. Mscoree (talk) 11:54, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Corrections

Just an FYI to the Map Maker: Bolivia has control of northern otl Chile right now. They lost it in the War of the Pacific (otl: 1879) Daeseunglim (talk) 10:44, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

All the German nations listed as "(Vassal of Austria)" were actually not vassals of Austria, but were independent (especially the bigger ones: Bavaria, Wurrtemberg and Baden). Australia at this time was not one country, but six self-governing British colonies (for full list and flags, see Rise of Bonaparte ). Callumthered (talk) 21:57, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

By definition a vassal state is a any state that is subordinate to another. Those states are independent, but are some what politically and economically controlled or aligned to Austria or Prussia. Some one listed those states under Austria or Prussia respectively for simplicity. Mscoree (talk) 00:40, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Maya and Other

Hey. If Odin etc exists then could the Maya gods etc come to life? Central america looks a bit depleted at the moment... There are thousands, but narrowing it down to say 5 of so...

If vampires are killed with a stake through the heart would a wooden bullet work? I mean what's the difference really? It's just shorter, but traveling far faster to compensate...

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 10:48, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

I was going to go with Bullets made of Melted down Crosses from Churches, but Wooden Bullets might work... 

Mafia can't be bothered to do his signature. Don't judge me!

Anything can make a cross. it's what the cross means that stops them, not the actual cross. I doubt your bullets would work unless you *believed* they worked... but meh. And leave the Churches intact - the ultimate bunker. Nothing gets past that without being fried by holy water, blocked by crosses, banished by words from the Bible... Churches are in effect an armoury. All you need to do is plant garlic around them... I figure the church might develop an anti-monster monastic order similar to the Templar knights... I'd call the Papal sates/vatican etc whatever, except I don't have time. The Paladins shall rise.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 11:38, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Feel to free any Mayan deities and creatures you think of to the list. The more the merrier! Mscoree (talk) 14:14, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

And play the Papal states, perhaps, David?

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 22:10, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Tasmania

Could I play as Tasmania (which, like all other present-day states of Australia, was a self-governing colony of Britain)? Callumthered (talk) 02:11, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead. Mscoree (talk) 03:01, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Papal States:

I'd love to play as them and have had ideas bouncing around my head all night. However I simply do not have time. I there is a CS2 then could I call them in advance then?

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 09:55, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

I can play as the Palpal States if someone will post general stuff on days I'm not available, unless I leave a request for specifics on their page.

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 11:04, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

I can do that (and for real this time lol) if you mean basically copying and pasting turns in. Mscoree (talk) 11:52, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Nation Map

It's just a suggestion, but could the nation map be replaced? I find all the present-day otl national and subnational borders to be a bit, well, annoying as I feel they clutter up the map. Would it not be possible to use the same base map as the "Monster map" for the "nation map"? That way too, it would be easier to see exactly what parts of what nations were overrun by monsters. Anyway, just my two cents. Callumthered (talk) 10:01, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

I second this. I don't think there is any need for all the subnational boundaries being displayed. Hailstormer (talk) 19:10, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I think the subdivision are quite useful, but I can always use the blank version of this map if necessary. Mscoree (talk) 19:48, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

That map with the subnational borders is both useless and inaccurate.

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   21:08, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

How is it useless and inaccurate? Especially when you compare it to the map that was drew by hand. That map is also a smaller resolution and vastly more inaccurate. Mscoree (talk) 22:58, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Hahaha no. For one thing, that map is from wikipedia. Now I'll point out the inaccuracies on your map:

  • Russia owns Central Asia
  • Wrong borders in Germany, Italy, France, the Balkans, South America
  • Some of those nations you colored in South America were actually disputed zones.
  • Division of states in British India
  • Russo-German borders
  • Sakhalin
  • The existence of Canada as one nation (Dominionization was in 1867)
  • As well as the inclusion of Newfoundland into Canada
  • Tribal borders in Oceanic and Pacific territories
  • Not to mention that those 80% of those cluttered subnational borders didn't exist in 1864

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   00:33, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Another point: Bolivia still has a seaport in otl northern chile. Daeseunglim (talk) 01:54, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Okay then. I'll make a new map using the blank one. Mscoree (talk) 01:59, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Battle of the Dannevirke

War of Unification: Stability drop of zero

Prussia

Location

  • Near War: +4

Chance

  • 6

Casus Belli

  • Weak Casus Belli (+ 3 attacker, + 1 defender)

Motive

  • Social/Moral Kinsmen: +7

Nations at war

  • Prussia (L): 5
  • Austria (L): 5 
  • Sweden Norway (M): 3

Development

  • +0

Participation

  • +10

Population

  • + 4 if the population is larger

Stability

  • 50

War Plan

  • Good War Plan: +5

Total: 102

Denmark

Location

  • At War: +5

Chance

  • 7

Motive

  • Defending: +5

Nations at war

  • Denmark (L): 5

Development

  • +0

Participation

  • +10

Stability

  • 50

War Plan

  • Weak War Plan: 0

Total: 82

Result

((102/(102+82))*2) -1 = 10.9%. This war will last for, say, 2 turns? In which case you guys have 7.5% ish. Easily enough to take back S-H.

Battle of the Franco-Prussian Border

Prussia

Location

  • Near War: +4

Chance

  • 5

Motive

  • Defending: +5

Nations at war

  • Prussia (L): 5
  • Austria (L): 5

Recent Wars

  • -2 (Danish War)

Development

  • +0

Participation

  • +10

Stability

  • 50

War Plan

  • Good War Plan: +5

Total: 73

France

Location

  • Near War: +4

Chance

  • 5

Casus Belli

  • Strong Casus Belli (+ 4 attacker, - 4 defender)

Motive

  • Social/Moral Friend (the Danes): +5

Nations at war

  • France (L): 5
  • Hannover (L): 5

Development

  • +0

Participation

  • +10

Population

  • + 4 if the population is larger

Stability

  • 50

War Plan

  • Weak War Plan +0

Total: 92

Result

The French troops manage to break into the Prussian countryside, and have successfully penetrated into the nation's interior, near the Rhine river.

  • Prussian Casualties - 10k/12k
  • French Casualties - 4k/125k

Did you even READ the rules for results??

The actual results: ((92/(73+ 92))*2)-1= 11.5%. You get two turns of war (after that monsters will appear in earnest) so lets say 8.6%. You can get part of the German Confederation, yes, breaking into the Rhine, but because of the distances you will not get parts of Prussia or Austria proper.

The Rhine actually is Prussia proper, and not part of the German Confederation, so that makes no sense. Mscoree (talk) 19:36, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand.

Regardless, this will be crossed out cos damn, Rex. ASB.

French invasion of Prussia ASB?

I don't want to sound bias or anything, since my nation is being attacked here, but I think France's invasion of Prussia is bias. They claim I am aggressively invading Denmark, but this is actually a war of unification that began before the POD. It's a bit ASB that France would suddenly change its mind about the Danish ultimatum and invade Prussia. The war was basically over anyway and we would of signed peace next turn. Mscoree (talk) 14:11, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

To avoid confusion until we can more opinions on this, I will temporarily cross out those parts. Mscoree (talk) 18:56, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well I finished up their algo, just in case. Way I see it, it is pretty ASB, but it's the first turn, so I feel we should let it off. It's not like you guys lose anything major; all they gain is the Rhine. The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 19:23, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

By the time they joined the war the war was already over. It was a lesser war in which I wasn't going to gain any sovereign Danish territory. Now warmongering France (ironically) is annexing a huge section of my territory, just because they won a single battle? Not to mention France completely contradicted itself. It went from being indifferent toward the war (before POD) to suddenly believing Prussia is warmongering and aggressive, even though it's actually defending German territory. Mscoree (talk) 19:35, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

A couple more turns

Can we have maybe 2 or 3 more turns with no Monsters, PLease.Flag of Russian Alaska (HR) OCT MARIUS, HAIL HIM Flag of Italy (Federalist Italy) 14:37, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I personally want to go straight into the Monsters now. Don't whine just because you are going to be destroyed by monsters. Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

I agree with Local, I can't wait to have monsters. Kytax (talk) 18:54, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

They will START to appear next turn. In two turns, they will be confirmed, and you will need to deal with them. By 4-5 turns we're talking total war.         Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

I think it ought to be gradual with sightings and a few issues like skirmishes, then in a few more turns all out war. Daeseunglim (talk) 20:01, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Right. The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 22:37, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Next turn (1865) will come the first real skirmishes with Monsters. After that, shift will happen.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 23:36, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Tell me when to bust out the SHTF moderator event I have prepared. I can also parse it out if you want too. Mscoree (talk) 12:49, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ooh, Next turn?

Then we'll turn the heat up to 11 the next couple.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

I probably won't be on at 21:00 UTC today, so just in case the moderator events are in my sandbox under 'Cthulhu Sleeps' Mscoree (talk) 15:48, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion on Algorithm

Currently there is a debate on whether or not algorithms should be per major battle, or per war. Parts of this conversation have been pasted from the Battle of the Dannevirke result section.

ITS NOT PER BATTLE MS.

Can we make it per battle? Mscoree (talk) 23:32, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Austria never posted their intent to be part of this event. Furthermore, I think that the algo will need to be applied to the next turn, as is common, so that other nations can react. Finally, I think that the Danish war plans were not weak, as the algo suggests, but rather highly coordinated and prepared for any upcoming attack - especially following the whole crisis and ultimatums issued.

This is, in my opinion, a bad algorithim. It needs fixing.             Ancapflag   I find your lack of faith disturbing.  05:39, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I fixed it.             Ancapflag   I find your lack of faith disturbing.  07:09, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

First of all, Austria did state their intentions to help me...before the POD, like the rest of this war. Secondly, you cannot add nations to the algorithm who entered the war after the battle even took place. I put the Danish at weak war plan considering they didn't even have enough soldiers to man the entire Dannesvirke (like OTL) and almost no time to prepare (the ultimatum was only 48 hours). I have undone all you edits. Please refrain from changing stuff again with out at least discussing it. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 18:51, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

No, Ms. That makes it way too complex. The PMII method whould be used for this, I feel. I'll fix it. The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 19:15, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Makes what complex? Also it says in the rules that aglorithms are for major battles and such. It doesn't make sense to add nations to the algorithm several hours after the battle. Mscoree (talk) 19:18, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

add me TOB

Look, Ms, stability I gave you, but having an algo for every single algo just restricts imagination.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 23:35, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think having just one algorithm per war actually restricts imagination. This way you actually have to think creatively, strategically, and tactically to design individual battles. Mscoree (talk) 12:52, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Beg differ. This way you can make up each battle as it goes along. Your version is more implausible, too, or at tleast harder, because you can have multiple battles going on at the same time.

The Mighty Guns is too Glorious (or lazy) to go to source mode and type out his real sig (Dammit, Guns!) 15:28, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, with this method there is still a good degree of making up stuff, usually in the war article itself. For example in NotLAH the Middle East War had like four algorithms, but on the page itself that was all organized, elaborated on, and expanded. Having multiple algorithms just makes it so that people can actually declare their battle plan. BTW I'm going to make a new section for this conversation. Mscoree (talk) 15:44, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why have that many algos? It just clutters up the page, and you'll have the SAME result each time. Let's say we're talking about WWII. You would need to 7-8 algos in 1944; the Eastern front, Italy, France, the Netherlands, the Ardennes, Greece and Yugoslavia- and of course the Pacific front, too; Burma, the Solomon Islands... you'd have to make 7-8 algos each turn, when you could create just one and make up the battles, like we did in the Great Holy War. So in something like we have now, it works fine. But if we get to a truly gigantic war, it's just a pain.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

I think it should be per MAJOR BATTLE. That way, look at WWII. Germany gought very well, and had Hitler listened to his generals we would be in a much different world. But we would have enventually beaten Japan. So I think that 1 Algo is too few as different things could occur in different battlefronts. Daeseunglim (talk)

So one algo per FRONT, let's say. So we'd only have 3 in the WWII example; one for the Pacific, the Eastern front, and the South-Western Front. 

That's a reasonable compromise, I feel.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

Completely irrelevant, but Daese, no. Germany didn't stand a chance. If the USA hadn't got involved, the Soviets would swarm them under. Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

Well if Hitler had listened to his generals, then, you know, the Russians wouldn't be at war with them.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

No, Russia would have gotten over the Purges, and invaded the Nazi Reich Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

The algorithms wouldn't be exactly the same. There would be different amounts of soldiers, different tactic advantages, etc. I'm not saying you have to make an algorithm every time a single shot is fired (if you want to, go ahead) but at the very least like one or two per war. Mscoree (talk) 21:01, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

So one per front... in a tiny war like you just had with the Danish, which barely qualified as one since he surrendered immediately, one algo is fine. For something like WWII, I can see 5-6 algos.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

Monster Genrerals

Ok, I'm just getting this straight. We'll have many, of course. Per region? I have a couple; Quetzalcoatl gets Meico, obviously, Bastet gets Egypt, Dracula get Transylvania, but...

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

The Jersey Devil gets New Jersey, the Yeti gets the Himalayas, etc. Mscoree (talk) 12:52, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Lycan gets Britland, even though he's actually Greek or summat.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

What about Set for Egypt? He's supposedly the god of violence.

            Great Seal of the United States (obverse)    SCRAWLAND INVICTUS || REX IMPERATOR   17:07, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

True. Not Bastet then.

Or we could also have Aten.

Or both.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

India will be fun xD. We'll have 4-5 generals there...

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

I think that the Mothman should get most of the United States. Also, it would be funny if Dracula went for Pennsylvania rather than Trannsylvania. Daxus Inferno (talk) 18:08, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, yeah, we should have a mod event like that, where Dracula accidently goes to Pennsylvania instead of Transylvania and gets killed by  some hicks.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

I am back! What hath I missed? Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 04:28, November 4, 2013 (UTC)



But that would result in the USA being full of Generals and shit, and Europe not having any... Why am I complaining? Do that. Please. Praetorian Flag RoG Flag "Sleeps with the fishes" "An Offer you Can't Refuse." "Make a wish. It'll be your last" Falklands Flag

Not at all though... Woden, Odin, the Titans, King Lycan, couple of others..

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

Bigfoot should command the Sasquatch. Phyrexia symbol Yawgmoth, Lord of the Wastes Phyrexia symbol

And the Abominable Snowman could lead the Yeti.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

Europe probably has the most generals at the moment. Mscoree (talk) 15:12, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

The Loch Ness leads the Sea Beasts, of course.

        Centriflag   Lies are all I have. Lies and vaudeville. 

Brazilian Invasion Of Chile

Conquest: Stability is lowered by four.

Brazil

Location

  • Same Continent: +3

Chance

  • Chance: +7

Casus Belli

  • Weak Casus Belli (+3 Attacker, +1 Defender)

Motive

  • Social/Moral Friend: +5

Nations at war

  • Brazil (L): +5

Development

  • +0

Participation

  • +10

Population

  • +21 (Population Is Five Times Larger)

Stability

  • +50

War Plan

  • Good War Plan: +5

Monsters

  • No Monsters: +10

Total: 119

Chile

Location

  • At War: +5

Chance

  • Chance: +9

Motive

  • Life Or Death: +10

Nations at war

  • Chile (L): +5

Development

  • +20

Participation

  • +10

Stability

  • +50

Population

  • +7

War Plan

  • No War Plan: -5

Monsters

  • Overrun: -25

Total: 86

Result

P = 0.1609756098

(0.1609756098)*(1-1/(6)) = 13%

After three years of fighting, Brazilian forces seize central Chile, and form an enclave lead by the cities of San Antonio, Valparaiso, and Santiago. This shall act as a staging point to fight off monsters emerging from the Southern Pacific, and as a result shall be manned by large numbers of troops.

Id like to point out that the Northern half of Chile has been under Colombian control for like a year... so did you just declare war on me or are you gonna pull out amidst the much larger Spanish vs Lusophone cultural influence... The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

Gran Colombian Taking of Peru

Gran Colombia

Location

Causi Belli: Annexation of Peru - 4 stability new Stability = 46

  • Near War: +4

Chance

  • 1

NPC bonus

  • N/A

Development

  • N/A

Casus Belli

  • Weak Casus Belli (+ 3 attacker, + 1 defender)

Motive If there are multiple motives, the one told to the army will be selected.

  • Social/Moral Friend: Fighting for social/moral reasons to help an ethnicity/race in the nation= +5

Nations at war

  • Gran Colombia (L) +5  Great Britain (MS) +5
  • +10

Participation

  • +10 both sides AUTOMATICALLY. No more, no less. ALWAYS. Capische?

Recent Wars

  • -0

Population

  1. of digits in Population:
  • + 8 if the popualtion is more than twice as large

Monsters

  • Nation is fighting off few monsters: 0

Stability

  • +50

War Plan

  • Good War Plan: +5

Peru

Location

  • (based off capital)
  • At War: +5

Chance 0 NPC bonus N/A Development +0 Casus Belli

  • Weak Casus Belli (+ 3 attacker, + 1 defender)

Motive

  • Life or Death:Opponents purpose is to destroy your nation= +10

Nations at war Peru (L) +5 Participation

  • +10 both sides AUTOMATICALLY. No more, no less. ALWAYS. Capische?

Recent Wars N/A Population N/a Smaller Monsters

  • Nation is swarming with monsters: -15

Stability

  • Your stability score here.

+50 War Plan

  • No war Plan: -5


Results

96 Gran colombia

55 Peru

0.27152317880794701986754966887417

27% of Peru including their Capital is taken. 

After 6 months of Heavy Fighting and with Gran Colombia controlling the majority of Peru as it is, Peru Falls and is expected to be integrated. Some Minor Resistance remains along the coast but is expected to Collapse

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