The Berlin Conference has been called between all European nations to regulate European colonization and trade in Africa during this new age of New Imperialism, coinciding with Germany's sudden emergence as an imperial power. Called for by Brazil and organized by Otto von Bismarck, first Chancellor of Germany, all nations of Europe have been called to agree on basic guidelines regarding the continent of Africa. This conference happened in the first place because all European Leaders wanted to gather and split Africa among themselves.
Attendees[]
- Germany- Mscoree (talk) 21:16, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
- Britain- Mafia (talk) 21:21, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
- Empire of Brazil: #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 22:05, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
- France: Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk) 22:49, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
- Italy: Kytax (talk)
- Japan: TOB
- China: Ninjasvswarriors (talk) 05:22, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
- United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway (Observer nation)- Aternix (talk) 10:25, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
- Belgium: Rcchang (talk) 11:17, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
- Russia: User:Edboy452
(talk) 22:01, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
Proposals[]
This Map goes off a different map given to me that I went from. This is not canon and is just a proposition that isn't finished completely because well, I'm lazy #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
This is Spain's Proposal (which I don't think is good at all. Spain is under complete duress and is at war with two separate major powers and lost most of her colonies in the process)
French Proposal
Japan's proposal.
German Proposal[]
- Slavery by Black and Islamic powers will be ended, thus an international prohibition of the slave trade throughout Europe's respected spheres shall begin.
- The Congo Free State will be confirmed as territory of the German Empire, thereby ensuring that any promises to keep the country open to all European investments shall be retained.
- The signatory powers shall have free trade throughout the Congo Basin as well as Lake Nyassa and east of this in an area south of 5° N.
- The Niger River and Congo River shall be made free for ship traffic.
- A Principle of Effectivity shall be introduced to stop powers setting up colonies in name only.
- The principle of effective occupation stated that powers could acquire rights over colonial lands only if they actually possessed them: in other words, if they had treaties with local leaders, if they flew their flag there, and if they established an administration in the territory to govern it with a police force to keep order. The colonial power could also make use of the colony economically.
- Any fresh act of taking possession of any portion of the African coast would have to be notified by the power taking possession, or assuming a protectorate, to the other signatory powers.
- Each region that each European power obtains shall have an exclusive right to "pursue" the legal ownership of land (legal in the eyes of the other European powers).
More to be added.
Discussion[]
- Germany: We believe we have claim over the Congo considering we first began colonizing the Congo River Basin and its tributaries almost a decade ago, and hired the renowned and prestigious explorer, Henry Morton Stanley (who claimed the region in OTL for Belgium) to chart the entire region.
- Spain: We wish to expand the Colony of new Catalonia into Cameroon and Gabon, OTL Tanzania/Kenya, and part of OTL Nigeria. We wish that Morocco be put under Spain and Italy's influence. We ask that this is about the whole new Colonial empires (Oceania, and Arabia). If it does come to that we would like Yemen and New Guinea.
- Germany: Most if not all of the locations you listed are already established colonies in other nations. Cameroon, Tanzania, Kenya, and New Guinea for example are owned by Germany.
- Spain: No parts of it, that have been occupied by Spain for some time. The parts that Spain asks for are places that have been colonies for some time, some even 100 years.
- New Guinea was not owned by Germany until 1881 and it was a protectorate
- Britain: We ask how Spain plans to control all this, considering their capital city just fell, as has the majority of their nation.
That was retconed
No it wasn't, it was only the issue with italy. Even then you lost Cuba and the Philippines and have no money #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
And the mod events did 90% of the invading, so I doubt it would be retconned
I was invaded by Brittan, surprisinglyat that time they where allies!
And you broke the Alliance with a Blockade of Gibraltar... you instigated the war. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
- Brazil: We ask that territories be ceded or allowed control to Brazil to connect Angola and Mozambique For a Trans African Railroad, guarantee Brazilian control in northern Cameroon into Nigeria, and expansion of Gabon to include some of the Northern Congo (Which has not been claimed yet). as well as a Colony Underneath Morocco on the Coastal area of Africa.
- France: We wish to return to the beginning with this discussion. Many areas of Africa are currently unaccounted for in the newest maps, still leading to conflict over those areas. Disregard for colonies would render this conference war-enhancing, not war-preventive. Also, we believe that giving the German nation, one of which that has little experience with colonization or overseas empires, not be given such expansive control over much of Africa when many other nations still hold claims and have more experience with African colonization.
- Germany has actually had colonial expeditions for hundreds of years at this point.
- Brazil: We are inclined to Agree with France, Even Brazil itself thanks to its addition of Portugal has more colonial experience than Germany. Their Proposal judging from colonial experience, among other factors is fair.
- Japan: We ask nations to respect our control of Jubaland
- Italy: We don't want France to own our colony that we already have.
ATTENTION: The point of this conference is not necessarily to draw maps of the future continent. Look at the OTL terms and you'll see what I mean. Yes, we can discuss other matters, but the things from there need to be addressed, although replace Belgium with Germany.
I think were missing out on about three extra years of colonialism that affected German possessions OTL, and a few ATL events such as increased Brazilian colonialization efforts have severely edited the OTL agreements.
Yes, things have changed ATL, but matters in the OTL treaty still need to be addressed. I'm just trying to make it known that it's not just about claiming territory.
Germany: The areas on this map that are in black or grey (plus the Congo, which will be grey in a turn or two) are already owned by Germany. Light grey is just claimed/planned to be settled.
The Claims must be recognized by multiple nations, claims or no claims a general consensus must be agreed to especially when there are more well established nations in your area that have had older Colonies. Also its impractical for Germany to be taking territory currently under another nations sphere of Influence (Southern Africa from the British, and much of West Africa from Portugal/Brazil)
None of the areas claimed are owned by Britain or Portugal/Brazil. Also claims are just that, claims, sometimes with little to no merit. That is why one of the terms in the German proposal is the creation of a Principle of Effectivity. Mscoree (talk) 00:35, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
Please see eiplecs comment, Your missing three OTL years of German colonialism, Brazilian Colonization has laid major claims to certain areas as well which severely takes away from German claims and influence in the Area, (it would be much much less than in OTL due to the Fact Brazil Capitalized on Colonial influence from Angola to capitalize West Africa and the peoples and claims) #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
Germany has actual agreements with the native Herero and Khoisan people, meaning that Namibia and the area north of South Africa would be firmly in their sphere of influence. In Cameroon it's the same as OTL, except Germany sent their first serious colonial effort there in 1872. Mscoree (talk) 00:42, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
This is A Combination of Brazilian and German claims i would like Mscoree to note that on the Gamemap three small provinces in Northern Cameroon bordering Nigeria are a Brazilian colony numbering 2000-3000 and maintains sizable presence militarily (About 1-2 thousand) as well, This has not been removed/Replaced on the Game map, and the Brazilian Cameroon Colony is on the Nations list as well and i have also been posting as them so i believe considering its been posted for about 5 turns then its Canon (Just as is Mscoree's Congo claims) #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 01:39, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
- It's fine if you have a settlement part of your Nigeria colony at the northernmost point. Just know that the Cameroon River Delta and the river all the way up to your settlement is my territory.
PS Colonies such as Goa were not included Same as Portugal due to their status, as well as the fact they are solidly under Brazilian imperial Control. So I didn't believe their inclusion was necessary #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
China: We were the first to colonize Tanzania and we wish to have Kenya and Tanzania as our colonies.
- You weren't the first to colonize Tanzania or Kenya. In OTL the first Chinese people arrived in 1891. I first colonized the area in 1873 I believe.
Spain: We feel battered and harassed because we a rich European nation have been given barely any land even tough are proposal has SPAIN HAVING THE SMALLEST COLONIAL EMPIRE. We ask this ro stop
China: We suggest this
China: OTL Tanzania and Kenya
Germany: OTL Namibia, Botswana, Congo, Zimbabwe, Papua New Guinea, Tanzania, and Kenya
Brazil: OTL Nigeria, Mozambique, Angola, Gabon, Zambia, Timor
Japan: Southern Somalia
France: Western Africa, excluding Morocco
Britain: South Africa, Sudan, Northern Somalia, South West Africa
Spain: Ghana, Burkina Faso
Spain will no longer exist in the next few years they are being split into component kingdoms. I Also believe that as Africa is a major venue for EUROPEAN Colonization... China would be limited to Tanzania only. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
Spain no longer has a colonial empire, as of right now none of the wars were retconned and the Capital, all of southern and central Spain, as well as the Philippines and Cuba are currently occupied or in the process of annexation to another nation. Spain doesn't have the monetary funds regardless to maintain any new colonies especially with this being Spain OTL twilight of the empire. OTL Spain barely got jack out of the Scramble for Africa. Spain as of right now is almost fully occupied and hence wouldn't get any territory especially considering the fact their being broken into component kingdoms following this war. I Emphasize that Spain's wars have not been retconned by any mods, and that he blockaded Gibraltar, and invaded morocco (Both for literally no reason) hence the wars are plausible Canon and not off the books. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk)
I'd just like to note that China was not the first nation to colonize Tanzania or Kenya. Germany began its colonization in 1873, while in OTL the first Chinese did not arrive until 1891. Furthermore, other than Germany the only nations to mention the area was Greece. Mscoree (talk) 10:38, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
Empire of Japan: As Germany is an ally, we are EXTREMELY disappointed in them for claiming OUR colony as their own. The empire would like to state for Germany to stay out of Jubaland, as an ally claiming OUR territory is the last thing we want.
- Germany: We respect your colony, and only have that region marked in grey to show that some Germans have taken up residence there. Sorry for the confusion.
Belgium: We claim Rwanda for ourselves and ask that we get the lands that are the present day Burundi and Uganda. If someone else wants Uganda, they can get it, and Burundi too, though only after some negotiations. Rwanda is non-negotiable. These colonies are small, and we since we didn't get Congo, we should get these three areas.
Brazil Dip: We recognize Japan's colony in Jubaland, it can't exactly be denied. We also tell Belgium that having two small insignificant colonies that you can't even reach without going through another major power is not having colonies at all. We don't see the point and also like to emphasize that both Rwanada and Burundi currently have local tribal treaties with Brazil as of 1882.
Germany: We agree with Brazil. We also have treaties with the locals here, and we believe that you have little claim to Uganda and the neighboring area.
Britain: We request that we are allowed to colonise more of Southern Africa
Japan: We ask to control more of Somalia. Although unlikely, controlling all of it would be in good interests. China: We have been colonizing Zanzibar and Tanzania for a long time and we ask to hold it.
- We've already mentioned that this is untrue. In OTL you don't begin colonizing until the 1890's, and as far as I can tell you don't mention any colonies here until the late 1880's, almost a decade after the German colonization wave, who arrived in their OTL settlements.
- We have colonized in 1876, please just read my posts.
- That's three or four years after the Germans.
Belgium: We are outraged that we did not get any colonies, vassal states, or extra territories. We ask for a colony somewhere in the world, and it is OK if it is small, worthless, or unwanted, we just want to get our first colony.
Britain: We demand that we are granted Namibia, and otherwise agree with the French Proposal. We are willing to Grant Lesotho to Belgium.
Belgium: We thank Great Britain for giving us Lesotho.
Brazilian map of Africa the territories are pretty obvious. for the less obvious, Japan gets and expanded colony in southern Somalia, Italy gets the Central Somali area. The Ottoman empire gets part of Yemen and somewhat into Africa more, France gets most of North and North Central Africa eventually going down to the border with Nigeria and Cameroon. British Southern Africa expands north from there establishing a border with the Germans and Brazilian colonies. Brazil gets Nigeria, the rest of Angola, Mozambique and as of 1883-1884 Zambia has connected the two colonies. let me know if there are any questions. #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 20:53, October 2, 2013 (UTC)
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Greece: We claim the Nigerian And east African colonies under Brazilian and German claim currently, and some territories already under Greek Process of Colonization and Process of Culturalization in Greek standards I understand these claims but I've been colonizing it for a while, just that maps didn't show it. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 00:04, October 3, 2013 (UTC) I will post a map soon.
The map on the Game page have been updated, however much of Nigeria is currently fully colonized (I added your on the Nigerian coast for the current game map ill update this map later) #LivinLikeFeudal (talk) 00:24, October 3, 2013 (UTC)