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GENERAL DISCUSSION

The following is for general discussion to improve the TL that does not involve article proposals. It's divided into sections for easier navigation.

Countries/Regions/Politics

Archives: Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3 | Page 4 | Page 5 | Page 6 | Page 7 | Page 8 | Page 9

Socialist Siberia

We haven't much about socialist Siberia since the Secod Manchurian war. Does anybody thin Aman Tuleyev would have retired or died by now. I now he will alive otl but due to doomsday ravaging global healthcare I feel combined with the increase the stress of running the nation could push him into an early grave. If he dead or retired who would replace him . Will it be a liberal reform who will bring democracy to Siberia and foster healthy relations with the ANZC and South America . Or will Aman be replaced by a stalisnt hardliner who who will clamp down on freedom and antagonize the intentional community. IF it the second option what his the chance of the new Siberian leader deciding staring a invasion of a country only to have the ANZC to scared of Siberian Imperialism and send troops to defend the nation. AGoldwind1 (talk) 18:09, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Anybody elese got any ideas for what has happen with siberia since the second manuchrian war Goldwind1 (talk) 23:34, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Flanders

Ideas on the Doomsday 1982 Republic of Flanders

I propose splitting Flanders from the Lille page first and foremost And if possible allow a page for the campines, as to begin actualy writing new lore and addapting it and making it more plausible

1) the army With most of the belgian army being in the east near germany or even in germany. I have estimated trough looking at data of local millitary basisses that the estimated size of the flemish army would be possible up to 1.000, allthough this can grow with soldiers returning from their basisses further east and small local recruitment by the Leopoldkarne. The main issue for Flemish armed forces being a lack of arms factories to produce guns in the innitial faze.

Sources https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwartier_Sergeant_Baron_Gill%C3%A8s_de_P%C3%A9lichy 80-250 https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwartier_Eerste_Wachtmeester_Andr%C3%A9_Lemahieu unkown but good estimate is around 100 https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vliegbasis_Koksijde No numbers once again but known to be mostly coastal aid and search and rescue mission https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-3_Sea_King only know specific aircraft to be stationed https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldskazerne mostly a training location https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwartier_Marinebasis_Zeebrugge Still have to research units but belgian navy would be in Flemish control

While the Number of Gendarmerie, the millitarised police would be around 2.000 with equipment including FALs, UZIs and other pistols like browning hipowers.

2) Goverment The goverment no matter who specificly would be in control would be led by a Minister president, which was a title created in 1981 as head of the flemish community and region this person is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_Geens , allthough with his whereabouts his office would very soon be declared unable to hold office due to the literal fact he's not in Flanders and is very likely not even aware of what happens. This would hold the door open for a temporary holder of the office whom we still have to find. This person would hold the office until Flanders would be properly able to do a staatshervorming


This term is quite simple a state reform. The Flemish goverment would try to change her constitution and how power is held quite drasticly, with authoritarian ellements being put into law as national fever runs wild. Allthough a bit dictary Flanders would have issue's with Far right ellements such as neo-nazi's former collaborateurs and even more nationalists Flemings wanting to control the new state. Flanders would thus have issue's with rogue soldiers police officers and more. The republic would thus be simmilar to the Republic of china and facist Italy in power. This state would be nationalistic and even linguistic nationalism, i do though doubt legal discrimination against other ethnicities and people. Most issues would be a lack of protection against bosses firing due to racism or the enforcement of linguistic tests to get jobs and much more.

3) miscellaneous The goverment won't specify exact design of flag, as to prevent political issue's related to it and because who cares. There would be done away with transelations of laws, everything would be in dutch.

Does anyone have opinion could they share before the end of may, as progress is kinda stuck until this is fixed Vinny Baker of Nate's Cookies Chocolate cookie.png 21:16, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

I really enjoy the level of care and detail that's going into this. But if possible, please keep some sort of association between Flanders and Lille - it can be a relatively recent thing, maybe just in the later 2000s. Economically it makes sense, and in the end the two do need each other, being basically isolated together over there. And that would avoid big changes to the canon. False Dmitri (talk) 13:54, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Alaskan Autonomous Territory

I don’t find it realistic that the US or its allies would allow the USSR to annex part of Alaska, solely for the political optics. The USSR was badly damaged and I found that they would have around 72,000 organic troops in what survived of the USSR and Mongolia, excluding troops from the west that would likely trickle in. They also only had landing equipment to deploy a few dozen tanks or support vehicles and a few hundred infantry personnel so the Alaskans would have an easier time defending.

I believe the AAT should nominally be independent as the Alyaski People’s Republic, but the USA and later the CANZ do not press the issue of the USSR essentially annexing the area by 2000 in all but name as they cannot afford another war.

Daeseunglim (talk) 16:16, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree that its unrealistic that the American Provisional Authority, the ANZC, Canadian remnants, etc. would just allow a Soviet occupation of part of Alaska. I think we could say that the occupation would probably last for a while, maybe even decades, but eventually something would give.

One thing to note is that Alaska is HUGE. The American population of Alaska could very well abandon current towns that have been occupied and mount some sort of guerilla resistance for many years from the ANZC-controlled Alaskan interior. Just how aware the ANZC authorities are of this phenomenon is something we could decide on, but I'd imagine they'd quietly be okay with it even if they don't say so explicitly. It's possible the American partisans could be covertly aided by intelligence agents/weapons smugglers sent by the APA (at first, though these initial efforts would be cash-strapped and feeble; the current Alaska article actually does already say some version of this happened), then the ANZC, and eventually by the restored USA and/or Canadian remnants.

By the early 21st century, the whole situation could have evolved into a Cold War-style covert ops/proxy war, with Siberia nominally controlling the Aleutian Islands, but with many locals basically behaving as if the Islands are independent, with covert Western support of some sort. I dunno, I'm just firing off a few ideas, but it's something that could be an interesting thing to explore. Would the expanding Torrington-based US want to regain control of the Aleutians to have a stronger naval presence in the Pacific? Would the ANZC want to add it to the ANZC-affiliated Alaskan government? GryffindorKrypton (talk) 02:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

I think the USA would definitely be interested in trying to gain more of a foothold on the Pacific Rim, but it doesn’t have the military forces to secure the region and likely would discuss it with the CANZ, which I don’t think would support it.

I could see Alaska and USA both covertly arming the rebels on the Aleutian Islands with the CANZ verbally disagreeing but refusing to do anything more than verbally protest.

However, the USSR is significantly more powerful than Alaska or the USA so any ideas of retaking the Alaskan Autonomous Territory would be a thought exercise.

Daeseunglim (talk) 16:21, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

ANZS Commonwealth and ANZS Melbourne

So right now, it is canon that the CANZ operates two nuclear powered Nimitz-class fleet carriers. Australia has major uranium mined with an estimate that it has 35% of the world’s deposit. However, Australia lacks any nuclear power plants, enrichment facilities, surviving naval facilities capable of handling a vessel this large, and New Zealand was anti-nuclear (though in OTL, it didn’t officially pass the nuclear free zone until 1984).

The first two are the more challenging part especially with the USS Carl Vinson requiring a major overhaul between 2005 and 2009 in OTL. If it skipped this, the vessel would likely be rendered almost unusable and at a bare minimum combat ineffective within a few years.

Also, it seems like the timeline forgot the CANZ also gained the HMS Hermes, which was conventionally powered. The HMS Hermes in OTL served until 2021, being under the Indian Navy flag between 1987 and 2021.

I think it would be more likely to see the CANZ use the USS Carl Vinson until the late 2000’s, then dispose of it. The HMS Hermes would serve until the mid-2010’s and I think it is more plausible for the CANZ to build more conventional powered carriers based off the HMS Hermes. The CANZ has large coal deposits and I think this would be the more likely outcome.

Daeseunglim (talk) 16:21, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Republic of China

Progamersuper (talk) 13:08, 31st May 2022 HKT

So from now on, I'll take care of the ROC, or Taiwan since China is still split, and there will be a Third Civil War somehow with the CUF winning but with heavy casualties. Also, China could potentially become Eastasia from 1984.

Graphics / Visualization /Cartography

Section Archives:Page 1 | Page 2

Former Soviet Union

Hey everyone, i wanna to let you know that i did create a new map of the former USSR and the states that emerged after Doomsday. I think this was a necessary thing to be done because the current map is not good and too small in my opinion. So i did recreate it and i also add new states and change others, because i think the older writers skipped a lot of things, like for example the Caucasus region, the Central Asian and also the Baltics.

Map of the former Soviet Union, the dark grey are is the Moscovite or Russian Wasteland.

I also add several new nations that i feel the need to be included:

  • Circassia - A country formed after the dissolution of the USSR by the population of the northern Caucasus in order to protect their newfound freedom and to live freely.
  • Kazakistan - The General Governorate of the Steppes, but in a different location.
  • Abkhazia - A Republic created following the Georgian–Abkhazian conflict of the 80s and early 90s, home to a large Russian population and supported by Circassia.
  • Stavropol - This nation is mainly formed by ethnically Russian who escaped from the near regions, mainly Chechnya and Dagestan.
  • Ukraine - Formed by nationalistic and Ukranian elements of the Soviet armed forces after a nationalistc uprising, both from the locals and the army.
  • Turkmenistan - An Islamic republic created in the 80s after the returning home of Red Army soldiers of Muslim descent, being left out in Afghanistan and practically abandoned created a liberation movement the "Sazman-i Nasr - Organization of Victory.", with the aim of overthrew the remnants of the Turkmeni SSR and replace it with an Islamic Republic.

Let me know what you think about it. Alex (talk) 13:45, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Good stuff man, I assume some of the states don't have pages yet? Other than that I like this update soviet region map. Trainor90 (talk) 19:34, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much, yes anyway, none of them has already a lage with the exception of the Muslim Liberation Army (1983: Doomsday) which it can be turned into Turkmenistan and the Ukraine Republican Coalition (1983: Doomsday) which again can be transformed into Ukraine. I also think we should reconsider a rewrite of many of the post war Russian states in order to fill in the new nations. Alex (talk) 15:11, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Howdy all so I don't know if it's the stranger things buzz or whatever but I tried my hand at redesigning the project logo. Let me know your thoughts! Trainor90 (talk) 20:39, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

I like chrome and neon what can I say

Wiki/Timeline/Article Technicals

Section archives: Page 1 | Page 2

Culture / Society

Archives: Page 1Page 2Page 3


Worlds Fair

A while back I annconced that I was consdeirng making a page about the world's fair for doomsday. I neaver got around to it.I won't mind if someone else did a worlds fair page Goldwind1 (talk) 23:12, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Miscellaneous discussion

Archives: Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3 | Page 4 | Page 5 | Page 6

Kentucky

I adopted Kentucky form Gopzack back in December. I got big plans for Kentucky. I plan on having Kentucky have a falling out with Virginia.During his brief return last yeast Gopzack said he planing a Virgina Kentucky split. It wasn't made public, Gopzack just post his like of a Virginal Kentucky split on my talk page after I suggested the idea to him. Anyway the Kentucky and Virginia have mild souring of relations in the the 2010's but the true falling out doesn't happen until later this year when Virginia gets caught trying to rig the Kentucky election. Speaking of the 2022 Kentucky election I plan on having Pete Buttigieg be Kentucky's second Democratic elected president Goldwind1 (talk) 13:28, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I never really understood the Kentucky/Virginia alignment. Both nations are on relatively equal footing in strength and Kentucky had its own group of allies in the region. It didn’t seem as likely to have agreements with an overtly fascist military state while it was a democracy.

I felt that a Kentucky/Toledo alignment was more likely.

Daeseunglim (talk) 13:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I was originally plan on having the the final nail of the Kentucky Virginia split Virginia trying to rig the 2022 Kentucky Elceiton but now I feel a more plausible breaking point of the Kentucky Virginal Alliance would be Virnga backing a failed military y coup that used the civilian government mishandling of terrorism as justification. If you agree let me know DaeseunglGoldwind1 (talk) 22:33, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

I am assuming the rigging of the election is a reference to the OTL event? I don’t know regarding Virginia as the two countries seem to be on relatively even footing and if Virginia tried to launch a coup in Kentucky, it would need popular support and a strong military presence, which would make it vulnerable to other countries. Basically it would be stuck in a position similar to Russia in Ukraine or the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the drift would be slower, likely Virginia would be popular among law enforcement and military personnel.

I don’t think Pete Buttigieg would be a candidate, this region is more conservative than where he is from, and unfortunately, this would hamper his ability to win. I think we would see conservative Democrats and more frequently Republicans as the party in power.

Daeseunglim (talk) 14:21, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I still thier is chance he could become president of Kentucky because he is mentioned as having been quite succefful as mayor of evansvile. He may have to become govnnor the state of southern india first Goldwind1 (talk) 19:26, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

On the history of Kentucky 1983 doomsday there is a subsection labeled terrorism that has no information. I assume that was the section Gopzack was planning on doing right before he he fell off the 1983 doomsday wagon. I feel I should fill in that section before I right about the Kentucky Virginia split. However I am not sure sure what to put in the section. So I would apericate some advice about what to put in the terrorism section.Goldwind1 (talk) 12:53, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I have decide to have the final nail in the Kentucy Virgina split be Virgina trying and failing to rig the the upcoming elction of 2022 or the previous elction of 2018 or 2014. Will some help pick which elction vigin tried to rig. Ps in the aftermath of the Kentucky Virgina split Kentucky will delvope close ties with the new united states and wiill day join themGoldwind1 (talk) 16:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

CURRENT ARTICLE PROPOSALS

Please list any and all current article proposals and their discussion here. If the proposals only involves a specific section of the article, please state that. Also remember to use {{ddprop}} when reviewing new articles. To graduate an article, move to have the article graduated and if no one objects the article will be considered canon (see the Editorial Guidelines for more information on this process).

Archived Proposals: Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29

Congo Union

Proposal for a union between the Republic of Congo, and the DR Congo.

Unsure who wrote this and whether there is an actual proposal written somewhere. But Zaire (1983: Doomsday) is pretty much this. It needs some work, though, and could use a caretaker. False Dmitri (talk) 00:33, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Emilia Romagna

Propsal for a country in the region, allied with the Alpine Confederation. Is in the region labelled “Cisalpine Territory” on the map of Italy ATL. This has been a message by your friendly bobblehat F1 fan. 17:00, 20 May 2022 UTC

For this to work you would have to have mention about how it was pervioulsy the alpine confederation's Cilpine terroity and just recently voted in favor indepence infavor of full meabership in the Alpine confedation or keeping the satus quoGoldwind1 (talk) 18:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Well, I’m currently adding how the first iteration collapsed in infighting between left-wingers(DPL), local mafia and a group of far right militias. The AC has to intervene(think 2004-06), and up to rather recently the region was under Alpine administration. Then the current iteration is founded. TL,DR: Nation collapses into infighting, takes intervention of regional power to end war.

This has been a message by your friendly bobblehat F1 fan. 23:00, 20 May 2022 UTC

Well then you may have a chance of getting your article approved by the modds. Will you please anwer the quesitons i left you on talk in the autuommoble prodution 4 and automoblie production 5 sectionsGoldwind1 (talk) 22:49, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

I like your idea F1, but it is a bit flawless nontheless, also i would raise some objections, mainly the name of the state, the flag and emblem and other things relative to this. Also we should need to make the history of Emilia-Romagna and northern Italy a cohesive one and that has only one version, not thousands not even close to each other and if you need help about the Italy of the 80s i'm willing to help, the best thing that i suggest is to write down a proposal in a sanbox and then show it to the others, for leaving the other page in blank. Alex (talk) 23:34, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Alex,

I know. Looking back on it maybe I was a bit lazy on the flag and name selection. And maybe the rest of it as well. I would appreciate the help about 1980s Italy, though.

This has been a message by your friendly bobblehat F1 fan. 15:23, 21 May 2022 UTC

Needs a massive amount of fleshing out in the post-DD history, i.e... all of it. But I'm not against a state existing in that region, it makes sense. Alex is your guy for Italy, as he's finishing up on a big rework for the region. I do fully agree with him that it needs a new flag and maybe name too. As it's only a proposal, you don't need to do a sandbox as Alex suggested, just write it all on the page. That was it's much easier for us to see what you've done. Sandboxing is only really needed for reworking old pages, which is not the case here. Look forward to seeing how this develops! FP (talk) 11:04, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Transport and Infrastructure

A proposal by myself. Covers how people get around after 1983. This has been a message by your resident F1 nerd. 11:38, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I like it, yeah we can expand upon and we surely do need. Transportation by other methods can still be vital even to this day, but with the resurgence of international trade by the 2000s and the returning of several goods like oil i can see how many nations that have large reserves of oil and that have refinery infrastractures would see the quick raise of an automobile industry. Thanks to the selling of cheaper cars by superior technology nations or the production of cars that require less oil. (Not because oil is expensive, but because it would not be used for private transportation) Alex (talk) 11:52, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Allegheny War

Tentative war I have an idea for between the Dixie Alliance/Superior and Delmarva/PA survivor states. If its agreed for this not to be canon or the page owners don't want their nations to be involved I can obsolete or modify the page. However this region seems to be a powder keg considering the alignment during the Saguenay War, Virginian territorial aggression, and borders or claimed territory beginning to overlap and interfere with each other or at the bare minimum beginning to reach each other.

I think a 12 year gap between the Saguenay War and this proposed conflict is enough time for the borders to expand to this point (note that Delmarva, North Penn, Reading, and State College are still working off borders that are around 10 years old at this point). The name is more of a placeholder, we can probably find something more appropriate or accurate for the conflict.

I have my proposed sides and my reasoning:

  • Basically Virginia seizes military bases or settlements Delmarva controls on the Chesapeake in the former state of Virginia.
  • Delmarva begins to mobilize and reach out to regional allies or partners for support. Meanwhile Virginia calls the EAA to a meeting to declare war to seize more territory, who agree with Kentucky supplying in the mid 20k and Cape Girardiau supplying several hundred attached to Kentucky's contribution.
  • Virginia subtly threatens to attack North Penn and State College if they do not acquiesce to Virginian territorial demands which encompasses land the two latter nations already control. It secretly prepares with Gettysburg to take control of Lancaster County (for another angle to attack Delmarva at) and Huntingdon to distract from the other points in the war.
  • North Penn and State College sign an agreement to support each other in a war while not conceding their own disputes (given cooperation at Saint Marys I find this to be a realistic agreement). Both countries pressure Reading and Susquehanna to support them, which both nations initially decline (not knowing the secret plan to invade Lancaster County).
  • Virginia reaches out to Saguenay and Superior who both join the Dixie Alliance (informally not as members) as payback to North Penn for supporting Canada, however Superior is limited to its Navy and Air Force with some marines in support while Saguenay is limited to a detachment of soldiers with Superior. Most of their personnel are concentrated to protect if Canada intervenes.
  • Superior agrees to spearhead naval operations against North Penn and disrupt trade with Canada. A joint Gettysburg/Virginia force will confront Delmarva. Kentucky and Virginia will invade North Penn/State College, and Gettysburg will occupy southern Reading and southern State College with support from Virginia.
  • The war breaks out full scale from skirmishes that were occurring between Delmarva and Virginia in early July 2021.
  • Delmarva is preparing a naval operation to land troops and recapture some military bases, but are forced to divert and defend against a large assault on the surviving military bases on Delmarvian controlled Virginia (former US state).
  • They are also forced to divert some reserves and artillery north to defend against some light attacks by Gettysburg in former Maryland.
  • North Penn and State College were anticipating an attack but are still pushed back a bit with State College not prepared for a two front war and North Penn was not anticipating Superior naval operations, which hinders trade. However overland trade still occurs and London and Niagara Falls make it clear an act of aggression towards neutral shipping is an act of war on their countries. The two nations are pushed back a bit to former PA Route 422 in the north and east.
  • Reading is taken completely off guard and a training exercise between Reading and Susquehanna is quickly reoriented to fend off the invasion. Gettysburg occupies a small portion of southern Northumberland County in Susquehanna (more as a statement) but are unable to take Fort Indiantown Gap, like it was hoping.
  • Reading and Susquehanna begin to mobilize their military forces and form a unified force under Reading. The PA survivor states form two tasks forces with North Penn/State College leading in the west and Reading in the east. A joint command center is set up in State College for Delmarva and all of PA to coordinate.
  • Meanwhile, Virginia sets up the equivalent at the Greenbriar.

I'm still gathering my thoughts on this, but what is the group consensus?

Overall, I think the combined Delmarva/PA force would be victorious just given their alliance with Canada and the ADC, who may intervene and at a minimum would likely supply the best weapons money could buy. I think Virginia would be forced to recognize Delmarva control over parts of eastern Virginia (state), while being limited in Pennsylvania to already occupied territory. Nothing would happen to the rest of the Dixie Alliance or Superior beyond financial penalties and losses in manpower and equipment. I don't think much territory would actually change hands as I don't think any of the nations have the manpower to actually secure and control land that was original part of the enemy.

I think it would end similar to how the Saguenay War ended, where the D/PA alliance is beginning to push hard against the Dixie Alliance forces to a point they may win, but the ADC and Canada press the group to stop as an invasion would be unlikely to succeed and controlling the territory would be impossible. I could see the Dixie Alliance being disbanded by the victors, but reformed rapidly under a different name by Kentucky and Virginia.

Daeseunglim (talk) 05:58, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

I think I should let let you that I left a request on lahbas page to adopt superior . I must confess I forgot to sign my post but according to labhas talk page history I was the last person to edit his talk page. Labhas didn't responce so I belive I now own superior but I could be worng. I perfer to think superior reject virigna offer, that superio new persident consider the squenacy war be a mistake of the pervious and he dosn't think it is a good idea to send troops die in a forgin country war. He also dosn't feel comfortable with virgina's miltance.

I disagree with this and frankly, Virginia and Superior impact too many pages to feasibly edit significantly. Superior absolutely would be looking for payback against North Penn, even the Saguenay War page indicates that Superior and Virginia were both extremely angry at North Pennsylvania for intervening against the Lawrence Raiders. Even 12 years after the war, this resentment would absolutely remain.

Superior and Virginia both seem extremely unhappy with Canadian influence in the region via its own territory and proxy states or allies. This would give it the opportunity to severely damage the alliance and potentially hamper Canadian expansion into southern Ontario going forward.

Daeseunglim (talk) 17:35, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

What is the group consensus on the outcome? I have five major campaigns and three minor campaign in the works:

Major -

  1. Virginian invasion of Delmarva controlled Virginia (US State)
  2. East American Alliance invasion of North Pennsylvania and State College
  3. Delmarva/Pennsylvania counterattack in Virginia
  4. Gettysburg/Virginia invasion of Reading and Susquehanna
  5. Pennsylvanian counter invasion of Gettysburg and Virginia

Minor -

  1. Virginia and Superior blockade of Lake Erie and North Pennsylvania
  2. East American Alliance air bombardment of Reading, State College, and Susquehanna
  3. Delmarva/Pennsylvania air raids on Gettysburg, Kentucky, and Virginia.

My planned outcome is a bit of a stalemate with the EAA and Gettysburg having more manpower and armor, but Delmarva and Pennsylvania receiving advanced anti-armor and anti-aircraft weapons from Canada and the ADC, negating the opposing side's advances. Also, Delmarva/Pennsylvania have an easier time resupplying troops and have militaries more aligned with fighting in the poorly maintained environments as EAA armor struggle to operate outside of their nations due to road conditions, and aircraft are mostly forced to launch with reduced loads from Virginia and Kentucky due to very few airstrips existing in Pennsylvania.

Canada and the ADC support Delmarva/Pennsylvania to prevent a Virginian hegemony while Saguenay supports Superior but is severely limited as Canada prepares troops if Saguenay gets more involved.

Both sides are pushed to the negotiating table by the United Communities and Vermont. The outcome is as follows:

  1. All members of the EAA must join the United Communities
  2. Reparations for aerial bombardment of civilian structures are to be paid out by the opposing side
  3. Vermont and the UC investigate reports of war crimes committed by both sides
  4. Delmarva is limited to expand to Spotsylvania/Chesterfield counties in the west and Hampton County in the south
  5. Gettysburg is limited to expand to Bedford County in the west and and existing State College border in the north
  6. North Pennsylvania is limited to Allegheny County in the south and Indiana County in the east with the future of Indiana County subject to UC arbitration
  7. State College is limited to Indiana County in the west, subject to UC arbitration
  8. Virginia is limited to expand to Westmoreland County in the north and Somerset County in the east in Pennsylvania and Spotsylvania/Chesterfield counties in the east and Hampton County in the north in Virginia

Daeseunglim (talk) 11:21, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

I pretty much had a similar proposal that went obsolete, mainly due to the fact that both were anti-US and thus wouldn't have such a flare-up/war. Otherwise, I like this thing. --Firestarthegodcat (talk) 11:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
That's right, I was trying to remember where that was. Daesung, have you seen this proposal? Anything there that might be incorporated into yours? Virginian-Delmarvan War (1983: Doomsday)
More important though, Fxgentleman is active again and as the creator of Delmarva (and as someone rather protective of his own creations), he should weigh in before this would graduate. Has anyone contacted him about it? A message on his talk page would be a good idea. False Dmitri (talk) 18:48, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Firestarthegodcat I don't think Delmarva and Virginia being uninterested in reunification would be a catalyst. I am setting a catalyst as the fact that Virginia claims all of the former state of Virginia but Delmarva has incorporated several counties along the Eastern Shore into its nation. It's already been indicated that the two nations have tense relations, and Virginia being a military state while Delmarva is a democracy would likely exacerbate this.

Daeseunglim (talk) 00:47, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Firestarthegodcat (talk) 03:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Is the group consensus that this isn’t a realistic conflict at this point in time? If so, I have no hard feelings, but I can obsolete this page. Or should it be a more limited conflict between Delmarva and Virginia only?

The only reason I bring a larger group of nations into it is simply because I think that Virginia would try to take advantage of the situation and press its territorial claims at once through the East American Alliance.

Daeseunglim (talk) 14:31, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Grenada

Noticing that Grenada is for some reason missing, I have decided to make a page on it, maybe to jumpstart the process and with that maybe make an overall review of the Caribbean possible. This is still in writing, but I'd like some feedback regarding the ideas currently presented within the article, barebones as it is.

     Cthulhu.jpg     Wolf hd by arma3lonewolf-d8m9rto.jpg   Deadly State of Mind Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  17:51, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Even though Doomsday occurs, I suspect Maurice Bishop still would have been executed. The plan would have been brewing for months prior to Doomsday (the military claimed Bishop was too capitalist as he had been encouraging private development of the island to encourage tourism) and in OTL, his death occurs only 25 days after Doomsday in the ATL. I believe this is one of the few case where an OTL event still occurs. However, the US invasion of Grenada realistically didn’t happen as the US Armed Forces would be focused on regaining communication, stabilizing operational areas, evacuating civilians, and figuring out what happened.

Likely the leader would be Hudson Austin or another younger higher ranking military officer. I don’t see the nation joining CARICOM as they have fundamentally opposing ideologies. Additionally, Barbados, Dominica, and Jamaica all were clearly opposed to the government of the nation. I could see Cuba, Guatemala, Grenada, the Dominican Republic, and Nicaragua forming a separate regional organization affiliated with the CSTO to counter CARICOM.

Daeseunglim (talk) 11:24, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

I originally thought that Bishop would get it too, but overall, the coup wasn't solely about private ownership vs nationalisation, it was about moving closer to Cuba and the Soviet Union publicly and renouncing the monarchy too, stuff that becomes quite irrelevant post-DD, and nationalisation at that point would be done by even anti-communist governments. While the tensions remain, I'd say the coup could happen later on, and I have an idea of how to integrate a coup with other stuff in the island's history.

As to CARICOM, we were thinking that CSTO overall needs a review, as the insane distances between members is... yeah, insane. And even as such, Grenada cannot solely survive by staying only in contact with a heavily destroyed Cuba, a Guatemala in conflict with itself, a Nicaragua that is recovering from a massive civil war, and a Dominican Republic that is somehow portrayed as being the same as the former 3, when it fact it's just a more socialist-leaning democracy as far as I understand it. As much as ideological purity is a thing, I am not really convinced of that being in any way sustainable for Grenada. Thewolvesden 12:57, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

The Alboran War

Since my original plan of rewriting Italy in a more realistic way and one that would depict his actions in a real world way i had to tackle the first sicilian war too, or as is it is known the Alboran War, a war that would see the involement of Spain and Italy against a coalition of forces.

Now, the others did give the approval for a revival with actual objects and aims of the Italian government, insead of what it is written in the original war, and i also did rewrite a lot about Spain, considering that the current version don't mention at all the military, the 1981 coup d'etat and how much most of militaries want the Francoist back in power.

My version of the war - The current version.

Alex (talk) 13:56, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Given the much smaller scale of the War of the Alboran Sea, as well as Sicilian intervention or invasions/occupations of Sardinia, Tunisia, and Libya, as well as conflicts on the mainland with what would become the Italian Peninsula Alliance, I think all these conflicts should be lumped into what is later called the “First Sicily War”. Almost like how in OTL, several different conflicts around the world are lumped into the War on Terror (wars in Afghanistan, Nigeria, the Philippines, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, etc.).

Also, I think it would be likely that Sicily, under the fascist government, would invade Malta. The Atlantic Coalition could liberate the country during the First Sicily War and that could expand on the reason for the CANZ deploying the ANZS Commonwealth to the country as no ports in the region are capable of supporting a conventional carrier with refueling/resupply, so a nuclear powered carrier would just require resupply.

I think we should set the Second Sicily War up as a stepping stone for the Commonwealth of Australia and New Zealand and the South American Confederation, shifting their attitudes of being somewhat hostile towards begrudging mutual respect.

Daeseunglim (talk) 10:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Lexington Conference

Proposal for a conference of American survivor states which would occur in 2021. A direct result of the American Spring, it took time to arrange due to disputes over the host country and transportation for all representatives, which has required coordination with neighboring countries.

Daeseunglim (talk) 15:41, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Some ideas I've been working on re: American leaders

Hi everyone,

So I've been meaning to put forward these proposals for consideration for quite a while. Here goes:


The passing of President George Bush

President George HW Bush: already canon obviously, but we had tabled the inclusion of his passing until we could agree on a formal write-up. I'd like to propose the following to go into his article:

"During the late 2000's and early 2010's, Bush made many moves in support of the new Torrington-based USA (including finally making a long-talked about visit to Torrington in 2012), and continued to work to promote American culture to the American diaspora's children. By the late 2010's, however, President Bush and former First Lady Barbara Bush were both feeling the strain of various illnesses, including Parkinson's Disease on the part of President Bush, and respiratory problems on the part of the former First Lady. Barbara Bush passed away peacefully in her sleep on April 17, 2018.

Former President Bush's health began declining rapidly after the death of his wife, as the stress of her loss combined with his pre-existing health problems. President Bush had been scheduled to appear at the annual American Diaspora Thanksgiving Feast at the US Embassy in Canberra that November, but canceled at the urging of his family due to his ongoing health issues. It was the first time he had ever missed the annual celebration.

Not long afterwards, on November 30, 2018, George Bush passed away at home due to complications of Parkinson's Disease. The Bush family released the following statement:

It is with deep sadness that we announce the passing of former President George Herbert Walker Bush on November 30, 2018. President Bush lived through some of the most trying times in modern history, fighting through World War II as one of the US Navy's youngest pilots and having close encounters with death, and serving as Vice President to the late Ronald Reagan during the aftermath of Doomsday. During this time, President Bush served alongside the President, trying to rebuild in the aftermath of that fateful day, and he would soon find himself as the new President following President Reagan's untimely death, now having to lead those efforts against daunting odds. President Bush led the nation's surviving forces through crises such as Operation Tropical Storm, and in the aftermath of the dissolution of the American Provisional Administration, he worked hard to maintain American culture and traditions among the US diaspora in the Pacific, spearheading efforts such as the American Diaspora Convention, the American Diaspora Thanksgiving Feast, and the formation of umbrella organizations dedicated to teaching American sports to the next generation.

But beyond all this, he was a family man, and he breathed his last while surrounded by his loving family and a few close friends. The love he shared with these people is a testament to the great man he was. He looked for the good in every person, and he usually found it. We'll miss you, Pop.

The Bush Family

In accordance with his final wishes to be buried on American soil, President Bush's body was transported to the US port city of Newport, Oregon, and then by train to the newly-opened National Cemetery in Wyoming near Torrington. The cemetery was rededicated as the George Bush National Cemetery. The state funeral was attended by members of the Bush family, former President Jimmy Carter (who had traveled from Neonotia for the occasion), and the current US President."

Joe Biden

This is my proposal for Joe Biden to be added to the 1983 Doomsday canon. He was always notable, since the 70's, for commuting daily to and from Wilmington, Delaware to be with his family at night, so this makes it plausible, IMHO, that he likely survived Doomsday.

Heidi Heitkamp

I've put together a proposal for Heidi Heitkamp, who I think could be a candidate for the US Presidency in 2020.

Bill Clinton

So for this proposal, I based most of my writing on ideas from the original generation of contributors that they shared on the talk page for Arkansas. I used their ideas, and got approval from Zack (who did a lot of work on the Arkansas and Missouri regions) for my ideas for Clinton's interactions with Arkansas communities as well as his interactions with Joplin (which Zack created).

One point that I saw could be somewhat less likely is the part about the malfunctioned missile. I'm definitely willing to have a discussion about that, but I kinda agree with the original writers about how it adds a bit of flair to the story, and the way I integrated it into the story I feel it became a useful way to illustrate Clinton's wily political instincts. You can see the original contributers' rationale for it on the Arkansas Talk Page. I'm willing to replace that part with something else, if the community here feels it would be best, though.

Patrick Kennedy

I put this together as a possible canon replacement for the role that JFK Jr. played in the earlier canon of 1983 Doomsday, before it was decided that John Jr. was unlikely to survive. Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure about the likelihood of Patrick's survival either, but I like the idea of him playing a role similar to that of John Jr. in the original proposal. I'm definitely eager to hear what the community thinks of this (if it's too implausible, I understand).

Ronald Reagan

My goal for this proposal, is for it to be part of a larger attempt to bring together some of the somewhat disparate threads about the 1980's USA in canon, including the the exact order of events during the government's evacuation on Doomsday, the rationale for moving to Australia, Reagan's role wrt Torrington, etc. I've also combined it with my idea of having Reagan and Bush take separate planes to Australia, so that some of the Cabinet members (namely, the ones who traveled with VP Bush) could survive and be "spun off" into their own articles to add some more depth to the story.

I also just saw some of Daeseunglim's recent ideas on the talk page for the American Provisional Administration, and a lot of the ideas I have for fleshing out Reagan's role in the story do fit with what Daeseunglim is proposing there, I think.

Anyway, let me know what you guys think. Best regards to everyone! If there are no objections, I hope we can canonize these. GryffindorKrypton (talk) 20:09, 20 March 2022 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

It's been over two weeks, does anyone have any concerns about these proposals? GryffindorKrypton (talk) 00:14, 6 April 2022 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

I think is a good proposal and one needed for flashing out the political scene in America and seeing how many OTL politicians may have changed cause Doomsday. Alex (talk) 08:32, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I think these are great articles. I also think that this does a better job at showing that while the survivor states in the former USA are somewhat divided, there is still widespread communication across the country.

Daeseunglim (talk) 12:20, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback. If it's alright then, I will go ahead and canonize most of these. The one I'm going to keep as a Work in Progress for now is the Patrick Kennedy proposal. I just want to get a bit more feedback about what you guys think of the plausibility of that one. GryffindorKrypton (talk) 00:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

Armed Forces of the Union of Sovereign Socialist Republics

I think we need to set up structured military pages for the more powerful countries in the world at a minimum. This will give us the ability to better gauge wars/conflicts and outcomes.

I am not sure on quantities, so inout from the group is appreciated! Based off feedback on Discord, I have added some Chinese military hardware that likely would have been captured by the USSR during the occupation of Xinjiang and Manchuria.

I also have determined a likely port for the Pacific and Northern fleets. However I would like to see the group’s opinions on the USSR’s naval doctrine. Prior to Doomsday it was focused on anti-submarine warfare and they didn’t require as much strategic sea lift capabilities as the USA did to support its allies. However, post Doomsday this seems to have changed, so I think it is plausible we may see the Soviet Navy increase in importance, especially with the rise in piracy globally and the importance of Africa.

Daeseunglim (talk) 11:52, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

I believe this page is ready to graduate.

Daeseunglim (talk) 16:10, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Torrington Memorial of the American Civilian (1983: Doomsday)

This is a relatively unique concept, but one I think should exist. Considering the size of Doomsday, it's only probable that within the forty years after a memorial of some kind would be built, to be one of several. ArchesAtSea90 (talk) 07:28, 7 June 2022

Ha, we're thinking alike! I literally just a week or two ago added the idea of a Doomsday Memorial to the Torrington article. You can check it out there! Perhaps this version can also exist, and/or we can combine both our descriptions. GryffindorKrypton (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton
(Sorry for the late reply) Sounds good, I imagine a central Doomsday Memorial in Torrington would exist; and I think if adjusted the article to fit into such, it would work. ArchesAtSea90 (talk) 13:28, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

1983 Hindu Kush earthquake (1983: Doomsday)

Again, a relatively unique concept, but should exist. I imagine a different level of casualties would exist, and panic would also be there. There's some central information on the article, and lists the amount of casualties etc, with reasoning and justification. ArchesAtSea90 (talk) 13:32, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Alfred Atherton

A minor page about a US Ambassador to Egypt on Doomsday. His presence would mark the relations of the average American tourist turned refugee turned Egyptian citizen up until his death in 2002. Keep in mind that I'm still editing this page and will talk more about the embassy attacks in October of 1983 and the bombing of Alexandria in November of 1988. All in due time. Foothillball (aka Sheeplechase) (talk) 6:07, June 28 2022 (UTC)

CURRENT REVIEWS

Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5

We place content under Review if someone thinks it contradicts canon or is so improbable that it's damaging to the timeline. To begin a Review, mark the relevant article(s) with the {{ddreview}} template and give your reasons why on the article's talk page and here. Just as with proposals, group consensus will decide if the article should be kept, modified, or marked obsolete.

Dragon State and Nanchang

There are two issues with this article the Dragon State:

  1. The general who is credited for starting the nation (and all the other leaders) are completely fictional (which goes against the general rules for this timeline).
  2. While some sort of totalitarian government is possible, the system of keeping "order" in this land is just awfully unrealistic (in my opinion to the point of ASB), and has never been used in history.

I think this article needs to be rewritten, if not marked obsolete. --Firestarthegodcat (talk) 10:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

  1. .

One thing to note, is that I think we will start having to make up people as even people born on doomsday will be in their upper 30’s, and with the butterfly effect, anyone born after Doomsday won’t exist.

If we start getting politicians in their 20’s to mid-30’s we need to start making people up.

Daeseunglim (talk) 14:14, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree, the people who survived doomsday have had children and grandchildren by different people, so basically those under 40 are most likely to be (realistic) fictional people in badly nuked nations. Thameside (talk) 01:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Weren't there notable (real) survivors in the area? --Firestarthegodcat (talk) 02:55, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Dragon State and Nanchung, its sister state, suffer from... extremely bad shit. An overall review of Dragon State would overall need a relooking at China and how it works TTL. Re: notable survivors, it's hard to gauge that given that it's the PRC.

     Cthulhu.jpg     Wolf hd by arma3lonewolf-d8m9rto.jpg   Deadly State of Mind Leader of the Knights of Scraw.  12:05, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I think it's time to do away with both. However, how does this impact the greater China area in TTL? I'm curious. --Firestarthegodcat (talk) 04:22, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Maybe we revise them that they are former nations. Honestly I don’t see either surviving for a long period of time. The Dragon State borders Huguang-Zongyuan and Nanching is sandwiched between Huguang-Zongyuan and the Republic of China. I think that these nations would likely overthrow the governments and take control to stabilize their borders and remove vestigial remnants of the PRC.

We should also consider that there is a high likelihood of the PRC, ROC, Huguang-Zongyuan, and Siberia entering into a four sided conflict over the Chinese mainland.

I also don’t think that the Republic of China would suddenly rename itself to Taiwan.

Daeseunglim (talk) 16:57, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I 100% disagree with it being obsolete. In fact, such a warlord state is extremely likely in case of a nuclear war. And knowing the legalist tradition as well as the fact that becoming suddenly a sort of divine emperor (you get what i mean) and the personality of people that usually are able to rise and consolidate power in such conditions...it is the most likely to render someone cuckoo crazy to the point of being capable of building such a rigid, brutal, militaristic, isolationist, misogynist warlord state. Not to forget the highly mountainous geography and isolation plays in its favour. I am against it being rewritten and even less it being written out. The other states have nothing to gain from trying to put so much ressources, time and effort to conquer such a state (and keep it) which the conquest of such a territory bringing nothing to them in return and as such, have no motive to do so if they keep proper defenses in place to protect themselves from the raiders to the point there is no chance they pose a treat (and thus stop trying to do so).

I agree with Daesunglim on the ROC name-change being unrealistic, especially since they came to the mainland (and especially since this is before any real-life process of taiwanisation came from since the late 90s which, may I remind you, was made in reaction to the imperialism of the PRC, which alienated them away from a chinese identity, in order to defend the endangered sovereignty of their nation), Doomsday prevent that and the context catalyzing the taiwanisation process from ever happening. SigmaHero045 (talk) 05:58, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Ah, the typical argument of "DD changed everything." Unfortunately, it's pretty much been used to justify everything that doesn't seem plausible, so I'm afraid it isn't arguable. Firestarthegodcat (talk) 06:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Oh yeah? You think it wouldn't? Go fully watch this, then we'll talk about it "not changing everything" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHoMSRZOS4. By the way, warlords were always there when there was anarchy, wether it'd be in China or somewhere else (ask the 1920s about it, which some people have lived when 1983 happened) and when they have all the power and all the obediance, they're free to do what they want about society. We're not perfectly logical (btw being realistic and being logical are two different things), we're not vulcans, we're not robots, we're humans. Since when was the world a perfectly rational, perfectly calculated place where everything always goes according to plan? Also, you totally dismissed the rest of my argument, including the important one of culture and society (things that 94% of alternative history stories totally or near totally ignore) which goes in favour of the Dragon State, as well as the even more important reason of ressources and will in why noone bothers to conquer it. SigmaHero045 (talk) 16:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Though I don't entirely agree with your reasoning here Sigma, I do agree this is not obsolete, nor should we write anything out without some serious discussion about the regional development over the last few decades. The discussion on the name of Taiwan is one that needs some looking at separate from this, I have my own issues with Taiwan as a whole and am trying to navigate a way through the region that respects what is there and plugs gaps or questions things that seem wanky. As far as Dragon state and Nanchang go, I like their existence, perhaps they will develop into something else over time but to write them out is kind of silly. Were not gonna have a Chinese superpower in this TL. As far as changing the writing from what has came before, I say its ok as long as you have fully researched your standpoint and have a cohesive plan for how it effects the overall TL. Simply wanting Taiwan to become Big Taiwan is not enough reason to have it be so. Trainor90 (talk) 18:56, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Taiwan

Hello all, as the new caretaker of the region of china and the successor states I'm going to firstly bring about the review of Taiwan. There are some issues I want to address with Taiwan and hopefully find realistic solutions to the problems I highlight here.

Firstly, the TL currently describes the nuclear attack on Taipei which I am happy to agree with. Beyond this the TL seems to have some plot holes. In the attack on Taipei we have the decimation of the civil and military leadership of the Kuomintang. Talks of the army being loyal to a group that had just been vaporised is not feasible, never mind the idea that they army has some collected and sensible response to uprisings on the island when central command is a crater needs to be addressed in a more sensible way.

Second, the genocide of natives, clearly a plot device necessary to wank the KMT to be big ROC. This will absolutely not happen or if it did the TROC would not be so readily welcomed into the international community considering they have just went full fascist holocaust on the island.

Third, If the leadership is gone, then it seems very unlikely they have the resource nor command structure in a nuclear war to overtake Fujian on the mainland and become big china again. We will need to look at a looser coalition in the region which will come down the line but for now, Fujian needs a new situation.

Fourth, the flag. May seem a small trivial issue but no we are not doing a mashup of the PRC and ROC flag and emblem. Its weird. By trying to stand for everything you are standing for nothing. And we can use this opportunity to design a fun new taiwan flag that is original to our TL.

This is my initial thoughts which i will be working through, let me know your thoughts. If you want to help wade through this let me know! Trainor90 (talk) 23:50, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Alpine Confederation and Italy

Hi, i'm Alex, several days ago i did discuss the idea of what would happen in Italy following the apocalypse and how the regional and local governments would respond to such crisis, i then found out that the then President of the Chamber of Deputies Leonilde Iotti, regularly visit her countryside house in Tuscany and it's here that her would become the main authority figure following Doomsday, because the rest of the political leadership mostly perish in Rome.

Map of the ECHI with his divisions

The Purple areas are part of the Swiss Protection Zones, areas under civilian, but mostly military control of the Swiss army with the help of Italian law enforcement. Meanwhile the areas that are both purples and yellow are Jointly Protected Zones, areas as the name imply jointly cooperated by both the Swiss and Italian authorities, and it serve as a safehouse for refugees in some areas and in others for the patrolling of targeted areas and last the green areas are under the Emergency Committee of High Italy, an emergency government composed by regional officials, military figures, law enforcement, paramedics, civil protection and with the task of protecting and governing said areas, the main gathering point is the city of Trento, but the offices and the seat of the CEAI are located in Bologna.

The Same did happen with San Marino, where the Italian authorities in the area of Rimini and Riccione worked with their Sammarinese counterparts. The CEAI would remain in charge until 1995, when it would be dissolved and replaced with the AFIS and then after the 2nd Sicilian War it would become the Italian Confederation or the Confederate States of Italy.

Since the committee was established by the President of the Chamber of Deputies her should be the one that has authority on Italy, like i explained previously. If anything the demands of legality by Sicily are null and void with her in charge. What would be formed in Sicily is supported by secret service officers, military and NATO officers, P2 affiliates, regional politicians of Sicily and businessmen.

And would fit nicely into the current narrative too.

Alex (talk) 08:22, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

British Isles (continued)

My review of the British Isles is still ongoing. The section got too long so I archived it - You can read it here. Here is a short summary of changes that I've suggested, which are pretty much all centralized on the page United Kingdom (1983: Doomsday):

  1. Much, much smaller evacuation of mostly navy personnel to South Africa. Years later, there is mistrust toward the exiled King Andrew, which paves the way for Anne to step fully into her new role in Cleveland.
  2. Adjust the list of targets (still ongoing). Glasgow and Liverpool are fully destroyed.
  3. Build on Britain's emergency plans, PYTHON and the RGHQ's.
  4. Remove "fog of war" so that, while there is chaos and confusion, the major states were at least aware of each other's existence. Nobody is getting "discovered" in the 2000s.
  5. Much darker course of events for Ulster. After a period of escalating mutual ethnic cleansing it is divided in half with a solid, permanent border between them.
  6. Make the Celtic Alliance an alliance or confederation instead of a unitary state.
  7. Remove from the CA the West Country and Brittany.
  8. Add an explanation for why Middlesborough and Hartlepool survived and how Anne came to be there.
  9. Propose the following changes to titles.
    1. King of Northumbria → Duke of Northumberland; Kingdom of Northumbria → Duchy of Northumberland. No reason for the Percy family to make themselves into royals.
    2. Kingdom of Albion → Kingdom of Northumbria. Consensus was that this would be the preferred name for a state in this region.
    3. Duke of Lancaster → Lord High Steward of Lancaster. This is because the title Duke of Lancaster is so strongly associated with the British monarch. Claiming that title is as good as claiming to be King.
    4. Kingdom of Newolland → Kingdom of the Parts of Holland, and with a vacant throne pending a decision on what to do about the monarchy.
  10. Adapt the wars of 2010-2011, trying to contextualize them better by placing them within a broader struggle. Make them less wanky by showing how they failed to meet some of their objectives.
  11. New London → Wessex. I also added a large trek to its history because I don't think a state centered on Windsor itself would be viable for long.
  12. Bring the history up to the present day, including the Eddy Poll storyline proposed back in 2020.

False Dmitri (talk) 01:03, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

To this I'd like to add a (13.) which relates to one of Britain's territories. Pitcairn getting annexed to the Cook Islands never really made sense, it was a random idea that I inserted with no real thought. I'd like to undo my mistake and make Pitcairn its own ANZ associated state. False Dmitri (talk) 01:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES

Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3

This subsection is for decisive and vital issues concerning the 1983: Doomsday Timeline. Due to the complexity level we have reached with 1983: Doomsday now, each of these issues might have world-spanning consequences that affect dozens of articles. Please treat this section with the necessary respect and do not place discussions that do not belong here.

Doomsday

Something I would like to point out:

Tactical nuclear weapons were designed for short range use against enemy military formations as an alternative to large scale conventional engagement. Tactical nuclear weapons are typically locally deployed by artillery and strike aircraft.

Theatre or intermediate range nuclear weapons were designed for theatre and regional usage against military and civilian targets. Most are deployed by intermediate range ballistic missiles or tactical bombers

Intercontinental nuclear weapons were designed for long range use against military and civilian targets. Most intercontinental nuclear weapons are deployed by long range bombers or intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Anything outside of Eastern and Central Europe would likely not be struck by tactical nuclear weapons. Anything out of Europe and northern China, Korea, and the Middle East would not be hit by theatre or intermediate range weapons. North America, Oceania, and any other long range targets would only be hit by ICBM's.

Conversely, in the USSR, anything west of the Ural Mountains would likely be only hit by ICBM's. Please note, I am ignoring any nuclear weapons deployed as defensive anti-bomber weapons (there were still Nike Hercules air defense missiles were deployed in Europe, however I do not know if they were armed with W-31 nuclear warheads or T-45-HE high explosive warheads).

During the Cold War, in Europe, the USSR deployed the R-14 Chusovaya (carrying one 1Mt warhead with a range of up to 3,700 km) and the RSD-10 Pioneer (carrying three 150kt warheads with a range of up to 5,500 km). The most common Soviet ICBM were 308 R-36MUTTKh (each carrying up to ten 550-750kt warheads with a range of 10,200 km to 16,000 km), however they were mainly designed to target and destroy US ICBM's in their silos. They also operated 360 UR-100 (carrying six 400kt warheads with a range of up to 10,000 km), the RSM-50 (carrying three 500kt warheads with a range of up to 6,500 km).

I'm stating this as several articles indicate that strategic targets in the US and the UK were hit by tactical nuclear weapons when, in reality they would likely be struck by smaller ICBM's or IRBM's, in Europe likely a 150kt warhead and in North America likely a 400kt warhead).

Daeseunglim (talk) 03:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

I would also like to raise an other issue that it's liked to the subject discussed by Daeseunglim, more specifically targets and what the Soviets would hit. As you probably see the Doomsday page is lackluster when it comes to target in many case and i would provide an example: France.

France originally had just 14 confirmed targets, of them just two military targets, there are none military targets apart from Brest and Marseille, which they host French Navy bases, now i did raise the number of targets to 25, adding many more targets, mainly nuclear missiles depot, air force bases and others.

map of targets

Alex (talk) 17:28, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Intermediate-range ballistic missiles had ranges in the low thousands of km, more than enough to reach the UK. For targets in the USA, you're absolutely right, of course. False Dmitri (talk) 20:56, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

ADOPTIONS

Archive 1 | Archive 2

Republic of China in control by me.

The Republic of China or Taiwan seemed to have split, and since this is like the Second Civil War or smth I will take it. It will be probably like Eastasia from 1984 tho


Alex (talk) 09:16, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Commonwealth Armed Forces

I would like to adopt this page to flesh it out more. I also believe this page should be renamed from Commonwealth Armed Forces to the Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Australia and New Zealand to avoid confusion with other nations.

Daeseunglim (talk) 09:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Adoption of Texas

I would like to adopt the Republic of Texas (1983: Doomsday) page because some parts of the page have not been finished and also the page needs to be updated to reflect recent elections and changes. I don’t think this will be a problem because the page has not been edited by the owner for some time now. I hope you consider my request.Tj7820 (talk) 13:14, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I think fleshing out Texas is important since it is likely in the top 5 most powerful nations in the former United States and Canada.

Daeseunglim (talk) 13:26, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing cowpoke, take it and tame it. Alex (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

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