Talk: 1983: Doomsday/Former Proposals 26

Former Proposals: Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26

Sport events

I'll just list them all here. Most haven't been touched in quite some time. I guess the question will be whether it's plausible for the respective countries to host, and the respective teams to attend. If those things are realistic and consistent, I think they should graduate. Benkarnell (talk) 20:06, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Has anybody taken time to review these? I'd like to graduate them if there are no problems with them. Benkarnell (talk) 22:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

For my part, the two Olympic proposals are very incomplete and aren't remotely ready, but the others seem OK. The UEFA Euro 2016 is very short, but it's complete in that it contains actual information about how the tournament went. The others are all detailed. I will remove the Olympic proposals from consideration here until they're finished. Benkarnell (talk) 15:21, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I have a problem with the 2018 FIFA World Cup, many of these stadiums weren't build when Doomsday happened, making them impossible to be here in this timeline. Not to forget such spacious, luxurious stadiums would cost a fortune (one that doesn't seem to be in the hand of countries even at the level of the Soviet Union). More humble stadiums (like they used to be) would fit better. SigmaHero045 (talk) 01:50, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Oof yes, that's a non-starter for me too. It's the same problem as using a person born after 1983. I'll take that off the list and inform the writer (User:Godfrey Raphael). Benkarnell (talk) 00:03, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I also hadn't looked closely enough at the 2015 Rugby World Cup. It has no results, just a lot of 0's. It was made in 2015 by a user who apparently was planning to fill in information, but who made the page and never returned. I'll mark it Open For Adoption and remove it from the list. Benkarnell (talk) 03:01, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Godfrey Raphael, who wrote the 2018 World Cup article, came back and is going to change the newer stadiums, so I'm listing it as a proposal again. Benkarnell (talk) 18:12, 7 February 2021 (UTC) 29 Hello, just stating my intent to re-adopt the 2015 Rugby World Cup article. Godfrey Raphael (talk) 06:59, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Mr Watermelons was active for less than a month, five years ago. You're safe to take over. Benkarnell (talk) 17:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

I think that 2011 AFC Asian Cup, UEFA Euro 2016, and World Open Wheel Racing are fine to make canon. I'll give them a few more days in case there are objections. I think the 2018 FIFA World Cup is also fixed now, though maybe it should remain a proposal for a bit longer because it was updated only recently.

But the two future FIFA World Cup articles have the same problem as that other one: too many big, new sexy stadiums. They're both the work of Georgepannell01, who created a slew of World Cup articles during a 2-week period a year ago, then left. I already marked the others obsolete because they were in an even less complete state; I think I'll do the same for these. Anyone can adopt and refurbish them at any time. Benkarnell (talk) 02:17, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Graduating those four. They seem unobjectionable; two months ought to have been enough time. Problems with the 2018 World Cup proposal have been addressed and fixed. Benkarnell (talk) 04:58, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Seborga

I have made Seborga as a nation of 1983: Doomsday. User:Col. James Hsu, 22:20, 29/03/2016 (UTC)

Not plausible due to other states. Objections to obsolete? Lordganon (talk) 01:58, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Monaco itself is "at best a loose confederation of city-states," so this actually could exist with changes indicating that it's a subnational unit. Benkarnell (talk) 14:48, September 28, 2020 (UTC)

Update: I've substantially re-written the proposal so that now it's clearly a dependent state of Monaco. I also reduced some things to make it clear that it is not a fully modern first-world society at this time. The military information needs to be similarly reduced. Once that is completed, I think it should be able to graduate without much of a problem. Benkarnell (talk) 20:57, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

I just looked this over again and found some further issues with plausibility and language. I tried to fix them but maybe graduation will need to wait until some of the other Italy-related proposals and reviews are finished. Benkarnell (talk) 03:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Just can't see it as a "state" of any kind. Maybe one of the regions the outer territories are organized into, but not a state like that. Lordganon (talk) 02:51, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

No, it's a constituent of Monaco. Benkarnell (talk) 18:17, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

I've checked it over, I don't see any other errors, and this has been a proposal for a really long time. Benkarnell (talk) 03:11, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Guymon

Survivor state located in the Oklahoma Panhandle. CheesyCheese (talk) 02:38, July 10, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I'm of the mind that stub-length descriptions of tiny American city-states should be removed as a general rule. What this one has going for it is that (1) it's an interesting area generally, given the Panhandle's history as a juristictional no-man's-land and its location on the edge of the Restored United States; and (2) it was written by a user who's very much still active. But to be viable, this article would have to coordinate with the much more developed info on Northern Texas and the USA, in particular Kansas, whose territory it borders. I've reached out to Cheese and asked if he's still interested in this proposal. Benkarnell (talk) 04:27, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

I never heard anything from CheesyCheese. I waited 2 weeks and posted my modified proposal. Summary of my changes:

- I moved the page from Guymon to Cimarron, but this reflects an in-universe change c. 2014.
- I presented the place as a half-lawless frontier town for the entirety of the 90s and 00s. I tried to imagine what would happen in a typical rural prairie town, far from any attacks. It's not total collapse, and it's not an island of civilization. It's more a slow, steady dissipation.
- I've made the American Spring events of 2011 key to its transformation and the rebuilding of civil society.
- The community began making overtures to the USA in the mid-2010s, and was admitted as a state in 2020. If we assume that the Virgin Islands were admitted sometime in the middle of the decade and no other new states since then, that would make Cimarron #13, which is a nice coincidence.

If the proposal is accepted, then the USA map and flag would need updates. I'm happy to do the map, which anyway needs an update to show the Virgin Islands. For a flag, I would suggest this version by Hellerick. As the US expands, we may as well use the many versions that he was kind enough to upload to Flags of the United States. If other new states are later discovered to have been admitted during the period 2012-2020, then it will be easy enough to retcon the parts of this proposal that refer to Cimarron as the 13th state.

Benkarnell (talk) 01:33, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

OK, Virgin Islands is highly unlikely to be a state, and anyway has a committed caretaker now. For now Cimarron is probably the 12th state, unless it can be shown that something else (Cascadia maybe? Or even the San Juan Islands?) became a state after 2012 but before 2020. Benkarnell (talk) 19:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Gryffindor and I discussed it and it's good to move forward. So I'm graduating the article after more than five years. We've agreed that Cimarron will be the 14th state, after San Juan and Cascadia. Benkarnell (talk) 00:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Governor-Generalship of the Steppes

Article by AnomalousDucky.

This is a new proposal for a Kazakhstani survivor state led by Russian nationalist Vladimir Zhrinovsky of the LDPK. He was born in the Kazakh SSR, hence his role as leader of this nation.

There's a discussion already going on at Talk:Governor-Generalship of the Steppes (1983: Doomsday); but the short version is that I don't think Zhirinovsky is likely to have survived in 1983. There may be other prominent Russian nationalists who we could find, however. Benkarnell (talk) 00:13, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhrinovsky was a low level member of the Soviet government at Doomsday. No clue as to where. He may have born in this general region, but certainly was not here at DD. The other proposed leaders on the talk page have similar problems.

Besides that, the feasibility of this state, given things.... not so much. The list of cities reads like a target list, it borders too many opposing forces, internally contradicts itself, and is not in a area that would be very likely to organize.

Lordganon (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

AnomalousDucky is on an extended wikibreak and isn't able to make changes right now. I've switched the page from Proposal to Work in Progress, and he can come back to update it whenever. I'm archiving the discussion for now. False Dmitri (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

War of the Alboran Sea

Article by Gatemonger. Feg 17:09, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

This seems to accurately gather together information from different sources - Sicily, Spanish Regency, Sardinia, Sicily, the Spanish National Republic, and the Atlantic Defense Community. It needs copyediting, wikilinks, and an infobox, but I don't see why it can't be made a canonical article quickly. Benkarnell (talk) 03:00, October 8, 2020 (UTC)

Since Sicily and other Italy-related content is up for Review, I'm leaving this as a proposal for now. Benkarnell (talk) 15:58, October 12, 2020 (UTC)

The thing is so old now. I'm going to graduate it because it accurately reflects canon as of 2012 (almost nine years ago now). If the Sicily review affects this page, it can be adjusted, same as any other canonical page. False Dmitri (talk) 17:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Society for the Italian Reunification

I have created a page about the committe for established a democratic state in southern Italy

Col. James Hsu (talk) 11 June 2016, 16:54.

For one thing, the proposed name for the article seems far too long. I am not sure, but perhaps the "CEMDPA" sited in the final paragraph might be appropriate. But then again, typing "Committee" in the search box is all that is needed to fine it. Check with the naming conventions. SouthWriter (talk) 16:54, June 11, 2016 (UTC)

Ah ok, i have use that name why there is that in the Non-governmental organizations, i think we can delete from Modern to Democratic, why is understable what kind of state the Italian want, is not need of specificated there. If you wanna you can modificated the article.

Col. James Hsu (talk) 11 June 2016, 21:16.

As noted elsewhere, change the name and fix the destinations/headquarters. Lordganon (talk) 03:08, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

This has been discussed quite a bit on Discord, and changes have happened in response to it. I think it's natural that such an organization would exist; that it would oppose the ongoing Alpine hegemony in Italy; and that it would look to Italian communities abroad for sympathy and support. However I also agree with TheWolvesDen that the list of chapters is more ambitious than realistic. I also agree that the goal of this society is unlikely to be achieved in the short term, since The World, as a whole, supports what the A.C. is doing in Italy. Benkarnell (talk) 18:45, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

Objections have been answered, there's no reason to keep this as a proposal. False Dmitri (talk) 23:41, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Tuscan Armed Forces.

I have make a page about the Tuscan Armed Forces, is finish. Military of Tuscany Col. James Hsu (talk), 14:23, 05/03/2016 (UTC)

Some of Alessio's other Italy proposals from that era were too big and ambitious, but this seems fine to me. It matches what one of the Alpine Confed's client states would be able to have, as far as I can tell. I'll graduate it in a few days if there are no objections (though I suppose if nobody objected for four and a half years, I don't know who would now). False Dmitri (talk) 17:56, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

This was the last proposal still active from the timeline's dead period. This calls for a celebration. False Dmitri (talk) 01:01, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Otto von Habsburg

This seems legit as well. I'd push to have him die several years earlier given the stresses and difficulties of the post-1983 world; but that's the only change that I would recommend. Benkarnell (talk) 14:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the hapsburg would have a resurge in popularity post ww3. I also like the idea that the austria decides to resesabklish the hasburgs as the royal family in the late 2000's early 2010's thanks to otto part in forming the alpine confederation and the disvoery that the Hohenzollerns have retaken the prussia throne. I have adopted the alpine confdeation and I will the haspbusb mochary restored as part of the alpine confedation if I can do with voilating perivos canon and if nobodu has any othe objectio

Yes, that would be a big change and need more group support. Part of me doesn't like it - not every country has to be a restored monarchy. But the idea also makes a certain kind of sense, and the careers of both Habsburgs, father and son, show that they'd actually be really good at it. Maybe Otto's funeral could give a boost to royalist ideas and put restoration in people's heads. I don't think Karl would be someone to seek out the title, but he would step up if called on. Benkarnell (talk) 04:49, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Do you think if Karl Hasp burg becomes king of Austria he may try to marry off his children to the children of the royal house of the Monaco and Swabia to get them to join the alpine confederation. After all the Hasp-burgs were know for marrying off their children to acquire landGoldwind1 (talk) 15:30, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

The old Habsburgs maybe, but it's not 1600 anymore. If Austria did create a monarchy in 2010 or 2015, it's not like the country would suddenly become the personal property of the family. Karl would be a symbol and nothing more. If the Confederation expanded, it would do so through diplomacy and politics, the monarch would make no difference. I haven't read about Swabia and don't know how that place is, but Monaco as written is pretty isolationistic, so it would probably not be interested in anything like that. Benkarnell (talk) 15:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I still think that marrage between monarchies can be used to united kingdoms. The kingdoms of Northumbia and Cleveland leaders married and they agreed two kingdoms were merge would they produce an heir and the heir takes the throne. Also I few mariages between morchary a major diplomatic move for helping neogtions on infatuation between parlaiments

I have adopted the kingdom of swabia. They is no metion of hostlty with the alpine confdertion it's self but they have tesnison with bavaira over the city of aluburg

Big difference. The English sub-kingdoms are part of what was a single country within many people's living memory. The little nations that the survivors created are new, with primitive institutions. Austria, on the other hand, is a fully developed modern nation that survived the war intact. Even if it added a monarch to its existing system, his whims and his personal life are not going to affect how the state functions, unless they totally change the way their country works. Benkarnell (talk) 02:29, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I think I will move his death forward ten years, to 2001 rather than 2011. And I will add a note that his funeral gave a small boost to monarchism in Austria but not nearly enough to effect a constitutional change. Otherwise I think this is ready to become canon. Benkarnell (talk) 00:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

I've made these changes that I suggested. I don't have any other objections. Goldwind, I think it's highly unlikely for the monarchist movement to actually succeed in Austria, but I added a note that it became more popular at the time of Otto's death. False Dmitri (talk) 21:09, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

If there are no objections to the proposal with my 2 changes, I'd like to graduate it soon. False Dmitri (talk) 04:35, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Graduating False Dmitri (talk) 16:49, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Znojmo Frontier Territory

Proposal I finished ages ago yet haven't ever gotten a graduation on. Deadly State of Mind Leader of the Knights of Scraw. 19:49, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Is 215k people too many for a small district like that? Even the settled parts of Europe will not have population densities anywhere near what they are in real life today. Benkarnell (talk) 22:01, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Other than the population count, I think it's ready to graduate (and I wouldn't hold it up over just that)... what do other people think about this? False Dmitri (talk) 17:10, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

The number is probably justifiable as a result of immigration from less safe parts of Czechoslovakia. Graduating, False Dmitri (talk) 01:47, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Fort Collins

Old proposal, written, abandoned, rescued by Daeseung, never posted here. I'm personally very skeptical that the city would be larger than it was in 1983. And I've now seen enough proposals involving air travel that I really think we ought to form consensus as a group over what is and is not happening in that field. Benkarnell (talk) 03:45, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

It's been three months and no response from anyone. Should this be marked Obsolete for now? I'm sure it can still become part of the timeline, but right now nothing seems to be happening with it. False Dmitri (talk) 18:51, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Commune of Monza

The history of an Italian commmune that was annexed to the Alpine Confederation . It needs proofreading, but I think it's a good addition. There's surprisingly little detail about the Italian regions that were annexed by the Alpines. Benkarnell (talk) 15:28, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Judging by the map monza is not the only part to part of the alpine confedration. I assume that those part of italy were intial directly anenexed by switterland or were by of protocate kinda of like the spornon and Znojmo Frontier Territories. I feel that it plauble that the alpine confederation may eventualy combine monza and other former itlain terroities to make a new alpine condfeation meamber state called Padania. I feel that a strong natiolist movement in the alpine confderations former italian terroties to break off of austira and switerland and thier one state with in the alpine confederation (posted by Goldwind1)

I like that idea. It's something that I would expect in the last few years, whether it was successful or not. Benkarnell (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

I am gald you like the idea. I got serveral ideas for the alpine confedeation. Do it it posisble that do a comdaiton of the alpine confedation admiitng the kingdom of litisitne as a meamber and discover that the house of Hohenzollern has retaken the throne of prurssia could lead to the austiran people deciding to put the hapsburgs back on some time in the mid to late 2010's. Karl von haspburg the heir to the haspaburg dynsty lied in slaburg so he should have surrived doomsdya

I got some idea involving Italy and the Alpine Confederation. I like the idea of the alpine confederation sending Itlaian speaking colonialists into the part of the Italy that police but have annexed. this includes part of the vento region. Venice didn't like this because they fill a historic claim to the regions. This leds to some suggesting that Venice join the alpine confederation. The is decent support of Venice but they some people demanding so level of attomonay. This lead the idea of having Venice tusancy Genoa, and the alpine confederation itlain terottiy forming an itlaian confederation and having the alipe confederation and the itlain confederation and the alpine confederation forming a new nation called the European federation or eurpean union. Besides the itlain and alpien condferiton the european union/ federation would also include bavaira and the sprona and zhomor frontier terrotities. I like the idea of the more part of former gemrany evently joing the european federaiton/union as part of a geman confedtion with bavaira

So for the first part, the policed area of northern Italy, there is a currently active proposal, the Subalpine Federation - which clearly would be a state that's dependent on the AC. But that proposal in my opinion still needs significant work before it's ready. Benkarnell (talk) 17:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I think I may try to convince the Subalpine federation author to drop his idea of a independent Subalpine and make it part of the alpine confederation. Also do like my idea of Venice Tuscany Genoa, and the Alpine Confederation's Italian Territory forming an Italian Confederation which will join the alpine confederation as member of an new multinational stated called the Euopenan Alliance , European Federation or European union.Goldwind1 (talk) 13:44, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Beyond this wider conversation about the rest of northern Italy... this proposal per se seems pretty uncontroversial, correct? Would anybody mind if I graduate it, now that it's been here for a month? Benkarnell (talk) 21:57, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay, i may agree to the formation of an Italian Federation that will comprend all northern Italy, included most of Lombardy, Piedmont, all Emilia-Romagna and the sovereign states of Subalpine, Genoa and Venice, this will not only be beneficial to the Confederation, because it will give to the Italians territory important to them and will alleviate a big burden on the Alpine budget, but will also show that the Alpines are friends of the Italians, and not conquerers or settlers that want to exploit foreign lands. If you help for the IF i am willing to give you assistance. Mal3ssio97 00:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I think you have misunderstood my proposal. I was proposing the Alpine, the states of north Italy as well parts of southern Germany unite to form a four tier federal state. The Italian federation or as perter to call it The Italian Confederation would be a second tier state along with the alpine confederation and a German Confederation. If you don't like my 4 four tier multinational European Federation idea I will be willing to support your idea of the independent nations of the northern Italy minus San Marino decide to federate and the alpine consideration allows them to absorb the land they police. I even feel that it possible the parts of Italy that vertically ruled by the alpine confederation my join the northern Italian federal state. When with a new Italian federal state being formed I have sure that Italian nationalist would want to join it and the alpine confederation would be open to a referendum. Note i would pefer to call the Italian federation Padania. Also with go with the independent Padania route do think the Italian pensulair alliance would surrive with just the alpine confderation, Padania, and San Marino as meabers. I the idea of the Italian pensulair alliance expanding to some states and maybe bohemia solvnia corita and monaco .Italian pensulair alliance would be renamed the european allaince and would simliar to otl european unionGoldwind1 (talk) 20:38, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Since this has now become a much wider conversation, I think I will copy it to the "Regions" section after I proofread and graduate the Monza proposal. Benkarnell (talk) 14:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm doing a proofread now and making some other minor adjustments. I worry that 170,000 people is too high a population. Benkarnell (talk) 18:13, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

The creator of this proposal has not been active in over a year. The problems with language are still pretty big. I have tried to proofread some of it but it still has major errors. I would also like to adjust some of the content - replacing written Constitutions and formal referendums with the more ad hoc solutions that I think are more likely for the 80s. False Dmitri (talk) 21:28, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I finished proofreading. I also changed some of the narrative relating to the early years - it was unrealistic in my opinion to have a lot of written Constitutions and Declarations of Independence in the early years. And it was highly unrealistic that nobody in Switzerland had heard of the place before 1987. So instead of a first contact situation, I made it say that 1987 was when the Swiss and Austrians extended a protectorate over the area. So if all that is OK, I think this is a fairly uncontroversial proposal and can graduate - it follows pretty closely what I would have expected from the Italian lands annexed by the Alpine Confederation. And additionally, it helps clarify something about the Italian areas of the AC, which until now have been mostly undefined. False Dmitri (talk) 14:10, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Like i already said, this article is okay for me and adds a bit of lore to the content about early Italy, which there is so little about it. For me is approved 100% Mal3ssio97 22:31, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Graduating, False Dmitri (talk) 15:25, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Cazorla

Tiny nation in Spain written by User:Spinovenator on the one day that they were active last September. No history, but some good visuals. If it weren't for the visuals I'd mark it obsolete, but maybe someone wants to adopt it. Benkarnell (talk) 19:07, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Mark it - this is pretty much included in the LoN Straits Zone. Lordganon (talk) 02:49, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Not true, and in fact a quick look shows Cazorla canonically exists as a "stable community" as of 2011 - with at least one mountain range separating it from anything in the Straits.

But actually the terminology of the map suggests, to me, that Cazorla was not using the trappings of nationhood as of 2011. If it's calling itself a "republic", that's more recent. ... But (and this is my constant refrain), in my opinion most of these kinds of communities would be unlikely to be acting as Republics or whatever, they would simply be city-states surviving in their radically changed environment. If I could snap my fingers and create an article, it would be to rename this the Junta of Cazorla, give it a history as a struggling but stable community in the mountains, and keep the coat of arms as a relatively recent invention. As it is I doubt I'd ever have time to do that. But I'd still rather this not go to waste. Benkarnell (talk) 02:46, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

User:CentraleuropeDD Yesterday I got a notification about that I could adopt the page. I had added some history and photos, as was a bit chaotic page

...So, been very confused about this. Googled the "place" before that post, and it came up west, in Andalusia. But, you are correct - searching for the name does bring up much further east. No idea whatsoever what I googled, at this point. Heck, Cazorla is even on some of the maps I made, ffs.

That map of Spain still ignores the zone, mind.

Anyhoo, all that really does is change the state - I would call this a defunct state that is now part of the Republic.

Lordganon (talk) 00:02, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

I think Centraleurope's changes do a good job adding some detail to what had already been known about this zone as a "stable community". Probably the Republic is interested in this territory, but annexation is hardly a guarantee. I think it can graduate as it is, though it's still short. False Dmitri (talk) 14:33, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Graduating, False Dmitri (talk) 21:08, 9 April 2021 (UTC)