Talk:Alaska (Russian America)

Why "Alyeska"? — Hellerick 11:34, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Russian_America#Here.27s_Nuckie.21.21.21

Lordganon 13:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

It just seems weird, that Russian Alaska is called by a name which looks less Russian than U.S. Alaska. — Hellerick 14:10, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Alaska: Stuff to remember

DO NOT EDIT THIS SECTION! --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:21, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Point of Divergence

Main

1. Ivan Kuskov gives more detail about northern California (rather than a blunt description as in OTL).[1] He would write his wife, giving even greater detail. Kuskov would also encourage his comrades (already at the colony) to write their families. In combination of word being spread by Baranov, the Kuskovs, and the early colonists, the description would eventually become circulated as the "Kuskov Papers," which is read across the Empire. The wording will encourage more and more Russians to colonize the region.
2. When Baranov is accused of "siphoned money" to American banks, he would still be removed from power. But with the success of the Ross Colony, and the confirmation that the rumor is completely false, Baranov is [in some words] given an apology and returns to his post as Governor (rather than being sent back to Russia, where he dies on route).
3. Russia would still proclaim the Ukase of 1821, but it would be worded much differently. Foreign vessels would not be banned from Russian territory. Russia would still claim all of the coat of North America north of the 51st parallel north (which would give Russia all the land north of Vancouver Island), and would also claim the Slavianka River watershed (and coastal regions... more details to come) as Russian. With non-Russian ships allowed, the Americans and British would not show as much defiance as OTL (but would still dispute it). It would be Spain who is the most pissed, and would eventually agree to invade the colony.

Links to remember

• Ivan Alexander Kuskov a kind of POV of Ivan Kuskov.
• Fort Ross
• THE CULTURAL HISTORY OF FORT ROSS
• History of the Russian Settlement at Fort Ross, California

• Peter Vasilevich Verigin (Russian protestant)

Others

• Late 1880s/Early 1890s — Roughly a decade after selling their pacific colonies to Russia, the British would be shocked to find out that the Russians were finding gold in Columbia and New Caledonia. The discovery of gold further north enticed many Russians taking advantage of historic and native rumors of gold even further north. Years later, gold would be found along the Klondike River, followed by gold discoveries on the Golovnin Peninsula and Tanana Valley.

• • 1888 – Fraser Canyon
  • 1889 – Cariboo
  • 1897 – Klondike
  • 1899 – "Nome"
  • 1902 – "Fairbanks"

Russo-Spanish War

Main article: Russo-Spanish War

• 1821 — Spain launches an armada from Loyalist New Spain to force the Russians out of California. Due to Russia's fur expeditions across the California coast, an Aleut hunter makes mention of a large number of Spanish ships heading north. Fort Ross takes the message, and prepares for a potential invasion. Spanish ships enter Bodega Bay, telling the Russians to surrender peacefully. Fort Ross opens fire, followed by Russian ships built at the fort. Spain is eventually forced to retreat, not before the following Russian ships damage an additional ship. Russia declares war on Spain days later.

• Battle of Valdez — In an attempt to force the Spanish out of the Gulf of Alaska fail, with the Spanish forts of Valdez and Cordova able to hold off the Russian attack.

• Battle of Kenai/Second Battle of Valdez — Russia regains full control of the peninsula, and forces the Spanish to leave northern North America.

• Siege of San Fransisco — With Spain occupied with the Mexican War, Russia launches a successful invasion of San Francisco and the surrounding bay. The Russo-Spanish War is strategically over. Mexico City falls months later.

Events

The following are noted events from OTL

• 1821 – (September 4) Ukase of 1821
• 1849 – California Gold Rush
• 1859 – Fraser Canyon Gold Rush
• 1860 – Cariboo Gold Rush
• 1865 – Russian–American Telegraph
• 1898 – Klondike Gold Rush
• 1899 – Nome Gold Rush
• 1900 – Fairbanks Gold Rush
• 1909 – Alaska–Yukon–Pacific Exposition
• 1925 – Balto
• 1933-37 – Golden Gate Bridge (link between Alaska [Sonoma] and Mexico).
• 1964 – Earthquake
• 1967 – Sasquatch (the myth becomes an Alaskan symbol and personification)
• 1971 – D. B. Cooper (maybe)
• 1974 – Pipeline
• 1980 – Mount St. Helens
• 1989 – Exxon Valdez
• 1992 – Ruby Ridge (possibly)
• 2010 – Olympics (I choose Vladikaskady)

People

• Mariano Guadalupe Vallejo (may have been a major supporter of Russian cooperation)

• Agustín de Iturbide (was originally a Royalist, maybe he would have remained one).

Toponymes

Islands

• Catherine Archipelago (Aleutian Islands): Архипелаг Екатерины (Arkhipelag Yekateriny). The original Russian name for the islands.

Bays

• Kenai Bay (Cook Inlet): Кенайский залив (Kenayskiy zaliv). This was the original Russian name for the inlet in OTL.

• Rumyantzev Bay (Bodega Bay): Румянцевский залив (Rumzantsedskiy zaliv). Named after Nikolay Rumyantsev, and named by Kuskov himself. Original name used by Russia for the bay.

Rivers

• Slavianka River (Russian River): Славянка река (Slavyanka reka; lit: "Slavic Woman River").

Others

• Golovnin Peninsula or Bering Peninsula (Seward Peninsula): Named after Vasily Golovnin (who already has many features in the area named after him). The second choice would be named after Vitus Bering, who also has several (sea related) features named after him in the region.

Interesting

• Mount Saint Helena (Russian plaque on top)

• Napa Valley (Вино в Сономы!!)

Cities

[2]

Bering

• Golovninsk (Golovin, Alaska: Головнинск (lit. "Golovnin's Settlement"). Named after Vasily Golovnin. In OTL, the name became misspelled, which is why "Golovnin" became "Golovin" (comparable to Sebastopol, California).

• New Golovninsk (Nome, Alaska): Новоголовнинск (Novogolovninsk). In reference to the town of Golovninsk to the east. Also in homage my residence.

Far North

• Mys Golovnina (Point Hope, Alaska): Мыс Головнина (lit. "Cape Golovnin"). Named after Vasily Golovnin (see Golovninsk, Bering).

Idaho

• c/s

Kenai

• Saint (St.) Nicholas (Kenai, Alaska): Святой (Св.) Николай (Svyatoi [Sv.] Nikolai).

• Voskresensk (Seward, Alaska): Воскресенск (lit. "Resurrection Bay settlement"). Named on the day of its discovery (Easter).

Kodiak

• Pavlovskaia (Kodiak, Alaska): Повловская (Pavlovskaya). Named after Saint Paul.

• Three Saints (Three Saints Bay): Трёхсвятительск (Tryokhsvyatitel'sk; lit. "settlement of the Three Saints") in Russian. Named after the Three Saints (one of the ships of Grigory Shelikhov).

New Caledonia

• New Gelsingfors (Bella Bella, British Columbia): Новогельсингфорс (Novogel'singfors). Named after the Russian port of Gelsingfors (modern day Helsinki, Finland), the hometown of RAC leader Arvid Adolf Etholén. Rumors have it that the name was also chosen because it was believed the native Heiltsuk people were actually saying the name of the Finnish port. See also: Fort McLoughlin.

New Irkutsk

• Furugelmsk (Fairbanks, Alaska): Фуругельмск (Furugel'msk; lit. "Furuhjelm Settlement"). Named in honor of the Furuhjelm family ("Furugelm" in Russian).

Oregon

• Baranovsk (Oregon City, Oregon): Барановск (lit. "Baranov's Settlement"). Named after Alexander Baranov.

• Vladikaskady (Eugene, Oregon): Владикаскады (lit. "Ruler of the Cascades"). Comparable to Vladikavkaz and Vladivostok (also an homage to the Cascadian origins of this timeline).

• Vodopadsk (Twin Falls, Idaho): Водопадск (lit. "Settlement of the Falls"). Named after the Shoshone and Twin Falls.

Sitka

• Anotklosh (Juneau, Alaska): Анотклош. Named after [Chief Anotklosh] of the Taku people.

• Lisianski (Pelican, Alaska): Лисянський (Lisyans'kiy). Named after Yuri Lisyansky (who is also the namesake for the "Lisianski Strait" to the north of the city).

• Telegrafsk (Telegraph Creek, British Columbia): Телеграфск (lit. "Telegraph Settlement"). In reference to the fact that the settement was established because of the construction of the Russian–American Telegraph line.

Sonoma

• Kuskovsk (Redding, California): Кусковск. Named after Ivan Kuskov, the founder of the Ross Colony.

• Ross (Fort Ross): Росс. Named after the poetic name for Russia.

• Sevastopol (Sebastopol, California): Севастополь (Sevastopol'). Named after the Crimean city of Sevastopol.

• Shasta (Yreka, California): Шаста. Named after Mount Shasta (which may or may not be of semi-Russian origin).

Tongass

• Veriginodar (Stewart, British Columbia): Веригинодар (lit. "Verigin's Gift"). Named after Peter Verigin, who helped move the Doukhobors to Alaska.

• Vrangelsk (Wrangell, Alaska: Врангельск (Vrangel'sk; lit. "Wrangel's Settlement"). Named after Ferdinand von Wrangel (the Russified version of OTL "Wrangell").

Yukon

• Beloloshadsk (Whitehorse, Yukon): Белолошадьск (Beloloshad'sk; lit. "White Horse settlement"). Named after the White Horse Rapids.

• Klondike (Dawson City, Yukon): named after the Klondike region and river (where the Yukon Gold Rush began). Also named in semi-honor of Klondike Kat (one of my childhood memories), even though the show was named after the region... but who cares. In fact, now that I think about it, I think it was this show that got me into Alaska and Canada (*Twilight Zone Theme*)

OTL cities to remember

• Eagle, Alaska: trading post on the Yukon River (during the Klondike Gold Rush).
• Nome, Alaska: it formed because of a gold rush?
• Petersburg, Alaska: has nothing to do with Saint Petersburg (named after founder Peter Buschmann) [3]
• Moscow, Idaho: ironic?

Cities that would not exist

• Anchorage, Alaska: There are more organized ports along the Kenai Bay.
• Fort Yukon, Alaska: Built as a British post in 1847. Not possible here.
• Nome, Alaska: Possible may not exist. Depends on whether the nearby settlement of Golovninsk (Golovin) would remain the preferred port for the gold rush. ('see New Golovninsk, Bering).

Governorates

• Vancouver would include the area claimed by the Colony of Vancouver Island and San Juan County, Washington (see Pig War)

• Charlotte will be the new name of the governorate, shortened from the colonial "Queen Charlotte."

• Skidegate will become the new capital of Charlotte.

• Oregon contains a panhandle due to its history. Originally, the entire region was used as a penal colony, which ended after the discovery of gold. With the increase of Americans in search of gold and religious freedom (i.e., Mormons), the English-speaking population in eastern Oregon increases. When the Empire collapsed in 1917, and the independence of the former British colonies into New Albion, Oregon was almost on the verge of collapse. Sonoma offered to remain in the nation, provided that Oregon establish itself as a federation. It was initially proposed that Oregon be a federation of four governorates: Sonoma, a smaller Idaho, and a divided Oregon (between East and West). But due to the growth of centralism in Vladikaskady, the federation idea was outright dropped (leading to the independence of Sonoma). To prevent more area loss, Oregon allowed the English-speaking region of Idaho autonomy, and the United Republic of Oregon was established. Oregon would then unite with New Russia to establish modern day Alaska. After the defeat of Communism in the north, it was proposed to establish more governorates. The larger governorates of New Albion, New Russia, and Oregon agreed to relinquish territory. While NR and NA were federations, Oregon was a unitary state, and was initially unwilling to relinquish any more area than Idaho. A lost governorate (called East Oregon) demanded its own governorate, but died much like OTL Westsylvania and Franklin. To end the dispute, Oregon was allowed to retain the area south of the Snake River, which allowed Idaho to expand to the remaining area north of the river. Despite their loss, the Mormon populated regions of eastern Oregon and southern Idaho have not given up their identity.

Industrialization

Америка против России.

The industrialization of Russian America begins around the 1860s. Key things to remember are:

• Construction of the Russian-American Telegraph line beginning in 1865.
• Industrial plants being built in New Archange, Nushagak, and Pavlovskaia by the 1870s.
• Trans-Alaskan railroad from Ross to Nushagak completely by 1890.
• Freed slaves come for work opportunitiesin the works projects.

Foreign relations

Big thanks to Katholico.

• The Russian Empire establishes earlier relations with the many nations of South America. How can this play out in the development of the continent?

• Russia establishes relations with Mexico
  • OTL = 1890 (damn)
  • TTL = 1822-1824 (1.21 JIGGAWATTS!!!)

People

• George W. Romney was born in Mexico (from Mormon colonies there). Could Mitt Romney been born in Mexico ATL?

Railroads

• Ross and Oregon Railroad — Connecting Ross to Baranovsk via Shasta and Vladikaskady. Completed around late 1850s.
• Trans-Alaska Railroad — Connecting Ross to Nushagak.

Era of Alaskan states

Russian-America Company lands (1799-1839)

• Russian America (Русская Америка)

American Krai (1839-1850)

• American Krai (Американский край)
  • Alaska Oblast (Аляскинская область)
  • New Russia Oblast (Новороссийская область)
  • Oregon Oblast (Орегонская область)

First Golden Era (1850-1872)

• American Krai (Американский край)
  • Alaska Oblast (Аляскинская область)
  • New Russia Oblast (Новороссийская область)
  • Oregon Oblast (Орегонская область)
  • Sonoma Oblast (Сономинская область)

Columbia Purchase (1872-1875)

• American Krai (Американский край)
  • Alaska Oblast (Аляскинская область)
  • (Trans)Columbia Oblast ([За]Колумбийская область)
  • New Russia Oblast (Новороссийская область)
  • Oregon Oblast (Орегонская область)
  • Sonoma Oblast (Сономинская область)

Second Golden Era (1875-1896)

• American Krai (Американский край)
  • Alaska Oblast (Аляскинская область)
  • (Trans)Columbia Oblast ([За]Колумбийская область)
  • New Caledonia Oblast (Новокаледонская область)
  • New Russia Oblast (Новороссийская область)
  • Oregon Oblast (Орегонская область)
  • Sonoma Oblast (Сономинская область)

Third Golden Era (1896-1899)

• American Krai (Американский край)
  • Alaska Oblast (Аляскинская область)
  • (Trans)Columbia Oblast ([За]Колумбийская область)
  • New Caledonia Oblast (Новокаледонская область)
  • New Russia Oblast (Новороссийская область)
  • Oregon Oblast (Орегонская область)
  • Sonoma Oblast (Сономинская область)
  • Yukon Oblast (Юконская область)

Fourth Golden Era (1899-1917)

• American Krai (Американский край)
  • Alaska Oblast (Аляскинская область)
  • (Trans)Columbia Oblast ([За]Колумбийская область)
  • East Yukon Oblast (Восточно-Юконская область)
  • Kodiak-Kenai Oblast (Кадьякско-Кенайская область)
  • New Caledonia Oblast (Новокаледонская область)
  • New Russia Oblast (Новороссийская область)
  • Oregon Oblast (Орегонская область)
  • Sonoma Oblast (Сономинская область)
  • West Yukon Oblast (Западно-Юконская область)

Independence (1917-1919)

• Alaskan Republic (Аляскинская Республика)

Beginning Civil War (1917-1921)

• Alaskan Republic (Аляскинская Республика)
• Republic of Oregon (Орегонская Республика)

Early Civil War (1921-1923)

• Alaskan Republic (Аляскинская Республика)
• Republic of New Albion (Орегонская Республика)
• Republic of Oregon (Орегонская Республика)

Middle Civil War (1923-1927)

• Alaskan Socialist Republic (Аляскинская Социалистическая Республика)
• Republic of New Albion (Орегонская Республика)
• Democratic Republic of New Russia (Новороссийская Демократическая Республика)
• United Republic of Oregon (Соединённая Республика Орегон)
• Republic of Sonoma (Сономинская Республика)
• Republic of the Yukon (Юконская Республика) (Disputed and Unrecognized)

Calming Civil War (1927-1929)

• Alaskan Socialist Republic (Аляскинская Социалистическая Республика)
• Republic of New Albion (Орегонская Республика)
• File:Flag of New Russia (Russian America).svg Democratic Republic of New Russia (Новороссийская Демократическая Республика)
• United Republic of Oregon (Соединённая Республика Орегон)
• Republic of Sonoma (Сономинская Республика)

Formation of Alaska (1929-1934)

• Alaskan Democratic Federative Republic (Аляскинская Демократическая Федеративная Республика)
• Alaskan Socialist Republic (Аляскинская Социалистическая Республика)
• Republic of New Albion (Орегонская Республика)
• Republic of Sonoma (Сономинская Республика)

Initial expansion of Alaska (1934-1935)

• Alaskan Democratic Federative Republic (Аляскинская Демократическая Федеративная Республика)
• Alaskan Socialist Republic (Аляскинская Социалистическая Республика)
• Republic of Sonoma (Сономинская Республика)

Secondary expansion of Alaska (1935-1939)

• Alaskan Democratic Federative Republic (Аляскинская Демократическая Федеративная Республика)
• Alaskan Socialist Republic (Аляскинская Социалистическая Республика)

Alaskan Reunification (1939-1946)

• Alaskan Democratic Federative Republic (Аляскинская Демократическая Федеративная Республика)
• Aleut Soviet Socialist Republic (Алеутская Советская Социалистическая Республика)

Alaskan-Soviet Tensions (1946-1963)

• Alaskan Democratic Federative Republic (Аляскинская Демократическая Федеративная Республика)
• Komandorski Islands (Командорские острова) (Disputed)

Modern day Alaska (1963-Present)

• Alaskan Democratic Federative Republic (Аляскинская Демократическая Федеративная Республика)

CaN I

Contribute 19:46, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

May you please be more specific? Also, this particular page is off limits. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:22, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Probly I will expand the page on socialism Alaska and make a few pages with your permission. Octavian, Hail Marius 01:41, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

I am moving this discussion to the main talk page. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 21:23, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

Orthography

I am not sure if I already asked it or not, but what kind of spelling in use for Russian in Russian America?

Probably they would be stubbornly sticking to the pre-1918 orthography to oppose the "Bolshevist" modernized orthography, similar to how Taiwan refuses to accept the simplification of the Chinese script.

But under Anglo-American influence they could also develop an alternative Latin-script orthography. — Hellerick 14:49, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe you've ask this question before, so no need to worry. Either way, I'm more than happy to respond.

I could definitely see Alaskans continuing to use the old orthography (which is what many Russian Emigres did for years). But with the Russian language become a global language following World War II and relations between Alaska and the USSR improving over time, my guess is that Alaskans would adopt the Bolshevik reforms (which is also what the Emigres have done over time).

For all intense and purposes, the Simplified Chinese Characters were simplified to the point of being unintelligible to the Traditional Characters. This was more of the reason why Taiwan (not to mention HK, Macau, and the majority of Overseas Chinese) continues to use the Traditional Characters (though politics were also a factor). By comparison, the Bolshevik reforms pushed to remove similar sounding letters and to simplify the spelling. To me, the Bolshevik reforms did nothing more than what Americans have been doing (more or less). Americans spell it ass, color, labor, mold; while the British/Commonwealth continues to use arse, colour, labour, and mould.

My guess is that Alaskan Russian would still use the Cyrillic alphabet, though I don't see why they also wouldn't formalize a "Latinka" to be used (along with an English Cyrillic alphabet).

You might also find this interesting, but I have been playing around with what the Alaskan Russian dialects would be like. I've been reading about the Doukhobor and Ninilchik dialects of Russian. Definitely worth a read. -- NuclearVacuum 21:47, April 3, 2016 (UTC)