- Why exactly is the convoy carrying the state officials, guarded by the National Guard, destroyed, while the National Guard are then able to manage immigration and the defense of Aroostook?
Politics[]
I have no qualms about this article being graduated. A major question I have however is how the convoy that is carrying the state officials to Aroostook, under the guard of National Guardsmen, is destroyed, and then there are still enough guardsmen to manage immigration into Aroostook? Also, can we assume that the Democratic and Republican parties make up the majority of local politics, or have Canadian politics slipped into Aroostook as well? Lahbas 20:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
- I moved that comment here, since it was time to move this out of the Proposal category.
- I would think that Doomsday and 20 years of aftermath would replace the Dems and Reps with something totally new. The USA is gone, the political system is different, the issues are different. Probably new parties would form once the Aroostook government emerged. They could be quite similar to the old parties, but I think they would almost definitely be different institutions. Benkarnell 12:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I just used the # of guardsmen used when we were discussing this article. I can change it to seem like their was less but we should probably assume that the entire Maine National Guard was not centered on Augusta at Doomsday. It’s a big enough state where they would be spread out. Plus some of those in Aroostook could be deserters who went home to protect their families. Mitro 13:32, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Referendum[]
I read the article, and I was wondering what people think should happen in the referendum on the 25th. DarthEinstein 19:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
- As a Canadian, I say merge with the former province of New Brunswick and join Canada as the Province of Aroostook. Aroostook would maintain a lot of autonomy, they just wouldn't maintain their own military. Either that or join with the remnants of New England into a centralised state with close ties to Canada, perhaps to counteract the Superior/Saguenay bloc.--Oerwinde 08:08, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
So I'm guessing this is up in the air until after the Saguenay war? Oerwinde 16:49, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
That's OK, but nationality has nothing to do with it. I am also a Canadian, but I am in full support of Aroostook staying a fully independant nation.
Yankovic270 17:13, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
In Regards to the New England Confederation[]
- For now, I would leave the size of Aroostook the way it is, and slowly expand the number of courntries in the area, with the objective of creating something that looks like France does. Preferably we would like something to manifest in Vermont/New Hampshire, and another in Quebec/Ontario. There is no way to ensure equality, without taking away equality. 00:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Population[]
Another random project of mine, to determine the population of North America, started with a tabulation of populations (around 18 million with articles canonized). I then started to estimate the populations of those short on figures. Naturally, I started at the top of the list. I figure Aroostock probably has a present population of around 1,400,000. Too high?
Doomsday Survirvors:
- Portland -- 339,000 (metro area loses 66%)
- Bath -- 900 (metro area loses 90%)
- Augusta -- 84,000 (metreo area loses 25%)
- Maine -- 627,000 (excludes bombed areas above)
- Total -- 1,151,700
Current Population:
Let's say 500,000 Canandians decide to join them (out of 700,000 in all of New Brunswick). Making 1,651,700. Of the 551,700 die of violence and harsh conditions in the first few years. This leaves 1,100,000. With a population growth rate of 1% per year thereafter, though, the nation would grow to 1,425,000.SouthWriter 04:36, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I still don't understand the huge casualty estimates from violence afterwards. The estimates tend to be higher than the casualties from the bombs. I really don't understand that. I would think after these disasters people would be banding together to survive, not killing everyone around them. Also, Aroostook only has a small portion of New Brunswick. The vast majority would stay in New Brunswick as it wasn't hit, it was only destabilized from refugees from Quebec and Nova Scotia.Oerwinde 08:12, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I think its too optimistic that after a major disaster people would always band together to survive. We can expect looting and stealing to lead to several deaths. Meanwhile refugees will clog outlying towns causing violence with the natives who do not want to lose their limited supplies. Its essentially supply and demand. Supplies are incredibly low but there is still a high demand. Its going to be a dog eat dog (maybe even literally) world for some time. Mitro 14:20, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- The other major component is the breakdown in the supply chain: not only food, but survival goods and medical supplies as well - and how we take those for gtanted! By 1980 more than 50% of America's people already lived in suburban communities, and this I think would be the fundamental source of the problems. The US is capable of producing more than enough food for its citizens, but when most of them are in suburbs there's no way to get it to them. The result would be millions of people relocating to the countryside - the omnipresent "flood of refugees" mentioned in nearly every article - where the social and medical infrastructure is not there to support them. In some places we've seen the best in human nature come out, and in other places the very worst, and quite often events played out somewhere between those extremes. In the end, I think Malthusian demography would take hold and the population would stabilize someplace near the carrying capacity of the land. -- Benkarnell 74.7.166.234 16:04, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
My thoughts exactly, Mitro and Ben. I figured that if an area was as unorganized as to lose its government to a mob of gangters/warlords within weeks or months of the bombs -- especially when that convoy was heavily guarded! -- could easily lose a third of its population in the course of two or three years. I was basing the number of folk from New Brunswick from a larger portion of the province than I should have. Revising that down to 100,000 from border counties, our figures go from 1,251,000 to 840,000 or so (loss of a third of the population in the early years). Adding a 1% increase over 20 years would increase to a 2010 population of about 1,008,000. How's that? SouthWriter 19:38, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
WOW!!! that a huge number of people, 1 million people! The Republic of Vermont doesn't have that many people in it!Ramdominsanity 20:51, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Population Revisited[]
Guys how did a county of only 55,000 in 1980 grow to become 750,000 in a state of 1,000,000? I'm assuming it was a typo and I'm gonna lower it to 75,000. If I'm wrong, and it is intended to be 750,000 then we have a problem here... Arstar 03:14, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Look at the discussion above, Arstar. This is not a "county," but what amounts to the surviing population of two "states" - one in the former USA and one in Canada. The nation took its name from the Canadian county, but it encompasses several counties reaching the whole length of US-Canadian border from northern Maine to the coast. That is not at typo, so any change you make will be reverted. SouthWriter 03:26, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
President Samantha Smith[]
Hi, guys. Another crazy idea. Here's a list of presidents for Aroostook:
- Gerald Conley. 1983-1990
- John Baldacci. 1991-1998
- Rachelle Pingree. 1999-2006
- Samantha Smith. 2007-present
Yes, that is "the" Samantha Smith who wrote to Andropov in April 1983. And visited the USSR in July. She would, of course, not visit Japan that December. Instead, she would live to the present (she died in a small plane crash in 1985 in OTL). Here is her story:
The Education of Samantha Smith[]
Samantha Smith had become an international celebrity, for she had dared to write a letter to Soviet leader Yuri Adropov of the USSR asking him if it were true that his nation wanted to destroy America. And not only did she write, she "demanded" an answer. Samantha was ten years old at the time, April, 1983. Before the summer was over, she had not only received an answer from the former KGB operative ("No, Samantha, we want peace"), but had received an invitation which she and her parents accepted.
Just over two months after returning from Moscow, though, it seemed that Mr. Andopov had lied. On September 25, 1983, she was finishing her homework when the announcement came over the radio. "Russia" had launched a full nuclear attack against the United States. As the family was taking shelter in the basement, her father, Arthur Smith, had assured her that the USA would never have launched a first strike. The USSR, then, must indeed be as evil as President Reagan had said it was.
Soon after being secured underground, though, the ground was shaking and a roar was heard coming up from the South. Portland and Bath had been hit, but the capital city of Augusta (less than four miles away) had been spared. However, shock waves and a blast of deadly hot air swept through Manchester. Many wooden houses were on fire, and some had fallen. By the time the Smiths climbed out of their shelter, thousands of survivors were flooding into the Augusta area. As a state of emergency was declared, the University of Maine at Augusta, where Arthur Smith was a teacher, was temporarily closed. Its gymnasium was used as a receiving station for refugees. Samantha went with her parents as her mother, Jane Smith, who was a social worker for the state. Her father volunteered to do what he could and Samantha tried to take it all in. But mostly, she was in shock.
As the Augusta area's population swelled to three times normal, government and private relief efforts ran out quickly. And no help seemed to be coming from Washington, DC, any time soon -- if ever, since it was almost certain that the government there had been disrupted beyond belief. Within months, though, the state government in Augusta made a controvesial decision to pull out of town, hoping for better conditions in Bangor. Two convoys were planned, but when the first convoy (with the governor and much of his staff, as well as randomly selected legislators) did not send a messenger back, the second convoy sought shelter among the refugees, acting as volunteers as gang leaders sought to kill them as well.
The local population came under the control of "warlords" that used whatever means necessary to make sure that they and their cronies had what they needed to survive. Most people horded what they could, in hopes that the gangs didn't run out of easier sources first. Some though, formed a resistance underground, harboring the legitimate government. Arthur Smith and his family formed part of that underground. State Senator Gerald Conley, who had been elected "president of the senate" in January, was staying with them.
As president of the senate (elected by the senate), Conley had become governor of the state when all reports were that Governor Brenan was dead. With the Smiths' help, Conley was able to get the surviving government out of town by the cover of night. At Arthur Smith's suggestion, they did not stop in Bangor, but continued to Houlton, on the border with Canada. The Smiths had left there in 1981 when Arthur took the teaching job in Augusta.
In time, the "Provisional Government of Aroostock" was formed, with Gerald Conley as its first president. Arthur Smith became the first president of the University of Aroostock. Jane Smith became Aroostock's first Secretary of Social Welfare. Samantha, in the meantime, started high school. She would go on to get a degree in political science and literature, writing several books and serving as Ambassador to Canada from 1998 to 2002. Returning to Aroostock in 2002, she was elected to the state senate.
In 2006, Samantha Smith was elected president with a 58% vote in a four-way race. Following her parents lead, she ran as an Independent.
SouthWriter 22:50, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I like it. What would be really intereting is if you could find a picture of her and make her look older for the article. Mitro 15:15, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
- I'll see what I can do. The Wikipedia article has a public domain picture, so I might be able to manipulate in a little. SouthWriter 16:50, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Samantha Smith
Here's the picture from the cover of her book, altered to look 20 years older. I lengthened her chin, made her face thinner, and then slightly lengthened the whole thing. I also put a slight crease in her brow along with a little highlighting of her lips and eye brows. SouthWriter 18:02, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
I've added an ear ring, a little bit more color to the lips and eyebrows and a little less to her cheeks. I also tried my hands at "laugh lines" (dots).SouthWriter 00:44, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Why not use pictures of Samantha in Lime Street and modify them to make her look older
- - 121.1.11.120 06:52, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you. The cast shot you linked to had a full face veiw and I was able, with limited success, to edit out Robert Wagner's hand on her shoulder. I haven't got any commits on my first efforts -- on the right -- so perhaps I will replace it with what I was able to do with your suggested photo. Smith looks older with her hair shorter, a slight enlongation of the face works for me. (Results on the Left) I'll put it up and see if anyone notices. SouthWriter 16:26, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
Susan Collins[]
Would Maine's current senator, Susan Collins, be in the picture? She's from Caribou, which is well inside Aroostook and outside of the bombing zone. She never served in state congress, so she would't have been in Augusta. Could she be a politician ATL? MAINEiac4434 17:38, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, Maine-iac, but Collins was a legislative assistant to Wiliam Cohen in Washington, DC in 1983. She was also the director of staff for a major Senate Commitee at the time. He duties most likely would have had her in the Washington suburbs when the nukes hit. It's hard to tell who might have escaped since it was a Sunday evening and offices were closed. It's a lot easier to assume most politicians and staff in DC were killed. SouthWriter 19:17, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
Damn, forgot about that. Oh, well. President Smith seems to be better, anyway. MAINEiac4434 19:20, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
What of Bangor, Lewiston-Auburn, Kennebunk, Kittery, Oxford?[]
Were those towns and cities spared? They weren't mentioned as being targets during the Soviet attack on Doomsday. Just curious is all. MAINEiac4434 23:50, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
Simply put they haven't yet been written about. In looking at Aroostook and Maine, it seems the original authors managed to avoid mentioning Bangor. Thanks for bringing it to our attention - I'll make a note of it on the main 1983:DD talk page. BrianD 00:37, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
I apologize for not incorporating the Samantha Smith article into the main article, but in that article I mention the failed attempt of the governor and some of the legislature being lost in an attempt to go to Bangor. The president of the senate (next in line to replace the governor) instead bypassed Bangor at the suggestion of Samantha's dad. I assume that Bangor fell to warlords just as Augusta had. Eventually the city would be reclaimed. As for the other towns, I had not really thought of them. SouthWriter 01:00, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Being from Maine (obviously), I'd be happy to help contribute to the stories of Bangor, Kennebunk, Kittery, L-A, and Oxford (among others) in the post-Doomsday world. MAINEiac4434 01:23, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
I, for one, welcome the contribution. Remember to check out the guidelines. Paramount among them is QSS - "what is written is written." Most of what has been written has been reviewed by active editors for accuracy and become "the truth" concerning a given location or person. When writing an article, especially about your own "home town," it is important to step back and see it as an outsider looking in. We have to start with what the world was like on September 25, 1983. Who lived, who died, and how did they get to where they are today. As a native, you have access to records and even memories of the area as it was in 1983. I look forward to your contributions. SouthWriter 01:50, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Excellent. If there are no further issues with my, shall we say, "Modernization" of the Aroostook page, then I'll begin work immediately. Any help is welcomed (this map details all major locations in Maine, and then some, so if you want to write about the Plight of ) and I'll try to post my potential updates in the talk page so they can be reviewed before they become part of the TL, and follow the 1983:DD guidlines as closely as possible. Thanks. MAINEiac4434 02:42, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Bangor is clearly listed in the Augusta section as being freed from warlords, though not populated.
Oxford and Lewiston-Auburn would have met the same fate.
Kennebunk would have become irradiated from Portsmouth and Portland, and Kittery more or less destroyed in strikes on Portsmouth, NH.
Assume anything south of Oxford is the same as Kennebunk, and anything south of current Aroostook territory is much like Augusta and Bangor.
Lordganon 06:25, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
So there can't be one survivor community? The kids going to the University of Maine in Orono don't band together and manage to avoid the warlords? Depressing. I guess being from Maine I hoped that some communities would avoid the fate of Bangor and Augusta. Oh, well. I'll begin work immediately. MAINEiac4434 16:11, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Well, Orono being right next to Bangor, for all purposes, I'd think we can say no. It's not that there isn't a chance there could be more survivors, but....... you have to think in context of what already has been written. Lordganon 16:16, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, so my rough draft mockup of other Maine locations is up on my talk page. MAINEiac4434 18:33, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Economy of Aroostook[]
I did some research on the economy of Aroostook country. I believe that some of Aroostook light industry like the Northeast Packaging Company and the Maine Woods Company wood company may have survived Doomsday. I would like to make an economy page for Aroostook. Goldwind1 (talk) 13:58, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
A lumber company would certainly survive, especially after power was restored. Being on the edge of the EMP zone, it is likely that they still had some power even immediately after Doomsday. Packaging companies would depend on materials unlikely to available (such as plastics and some chemicals necessary to make paper). In time these would come, but without modifications a packaging plant would have quite a problem surviving. As for a "page," how about just a section to the existing page for now. SouthWriter (talk) 04:04, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, a page would be far too much.
The Maine Woods Company didn't even exist until most of two decades after DD.
The packaging company would have survived - plastics and chemicals aren't needed for paper bags, either, especially not with the processes they'd have used then. Far as I know, the machines wouldn't really need power, either.
Lordganon (talk) 02:19, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
I had not researched the particular companies, but was giving general info. Lumber and paper companies in the 1980's were almost totally dependent on electricity. Even if Northeast Packaging was using antique equipment, they would need suppliers for the paper they used to make the bags. My dad was in the procurement side of both the paper and lumber businesses, so I do know something about the workings of both lumber and paper mills. I even worked in a packaging plant in the 80's -- very loud and using plastic bags. [That lasted about a week!]. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. SouthWriter (talk) 05:22, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
There is a major difference between rural, northern, Maine, and where you are, South. The machines they used even in the last few decades, in many cases, are older than you'd think.
Even beyond that, there's a ton of old equipment in the region.
Far as I can find out, Northeast was using old equipment - and had the facilities to make the needed components for the bags.
Power supplies in Northern Maine are sketchy, remember. There's no main lines going there. Industry there uses as little as possible today, and didn't use it, if it could be at all avoided, then.
Lordganon (talk) 05:56, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
I don't know how much you studied this, Ganon, but a simple Google search produced this:
- History
- 1940: Established as Denny’s River Electric Cooperative in Meddybemps, Maine. Moved to Calais in 1953.
- 1958: Acquired St. Croix Electric Company in Calais and changed to current name.
- 1964: Merged with Kingman Electric Company (Kingman) and Farm-Home Electric Company (Patten).
- 1976: Acquired electrical assets of Woodland Water and Electric to complete service territory as it now exists.
Pretty good coverage as of 1976. No hick backwoods operations there either. By the way, my "neck of the woods" until 1976 was Southwest Georgia. Before that, it was the panhandle of Florida. That is where my dad worked and where I was inside these mills. Rural electric systems have been in place since the 1940's. This one article about Maine's co-op makes it plain that they had lines up long before the 1970's. True, they may have not have had the hydro-electric plants of SW Georgia, or the nuclear plants of South Carolina, but they had power -- and I'm pretty sure they used it in manufacturing plants that made paper. Mechanical pulping requires a lot of electricity, and barring that you need chemical pulping, which requires sulfuous acid (and other sulfites) or sodium hydroxide (lye) -- both needing processing plants of their own!
My point is, I was making general statements to which you seem to have wanted to contradict just to see if you could. Or so it seems to me. Do you miss my sparring that much. :-)
Hey, if you can produce stats to show an aversion to electric processing in eastern (not northern) Maine, then I'm open to be convinced. I am just coming from a 'common sense' angle here. It's late. I'm going to bed. SouthWriter (talk) 06:51, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
...And if you'd bother to look at a map, you'd notice that area in question, and the area of that company, are not at all the same. That site even makes this very obvious.
We have been discussing northern Maine. Not eastern Maine. That is a rather large difference. Look at the companies Gold brought up, and even the towns noted in this article. They are not eastern Maine, but northern. And Houlton being supplied by that company is entirely irrelevant to the parts of northern Maine that are even further north.
Yes, I'm aware of what your neck of the woods is. And just how much of a difference there is between there and northern Maine.
Rural electricity in many areas is a newer event than the 1940s.
Mechanical pulp-making does not need electricity. Not at all. There's a reason why it's been in use for centuries.
And, for that matter, we aren't even talking about normal paper, but paper for bags - a less-refined version.
South, I don't care to "spar" with you. You're too intelligent to make it easy, even when you're incorrect.
Lordganon (talk) 10:55, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
Well, as far as to the area of the 83DD nation, the article declares it to be mostly within the boundaries of Aroostook county, which take up the northeastern part of the state. You are more correct, though, since it is the top of main, and thus all of northern Maine. However, that Houlton, the capital of the nation, is supplied by the co-op should be relevant. I still want to see something that shows that northern Maine was stuck in the late 19th century in regards to electricity in the 1980's. It does not seem right to me, that's all. It's great if the equipment for mechanical pulping was available and still in operation. It would make production of low-grade paper an essential part of the economy -- even before electricity was restored.
By the way, thanks for the compliment. :-)
SouthWriter (talk) 00:47, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
Aroostook County is considered to be "Northern Maine" - most meanings of the term actually refer to the entire county, and no other parts of Maine. Silly as that is on some levels, mind, since the northern three quarters of the county would be more accurate. Going by the normal usage, you'd think that parts of Penobscot, Piscataquis, and Somerset counties would be added as well, but.... nope. Not the case, for some reason. Makes no sense.
Have at look at the area on Google maps, South. Even today, most of the areas of Aroostook is forest - even more so the case in Aroostook County. No power lines, no roads in a lot of it too, and what there is is logging roads - poor quality even for those type of roads.
Power came to the area later than the rest of the country - and when it did, it was a combination of lines from Canada, and very local plants - i.e. ones sized for small towns, with limited generation. That really hasn't changed.
South, we weren't talking about Houlton, but areas well north of there. That's why it is irrelevant.
Up there, outside of the towns, power is more limited. Northernmost Maine is one of the areas that got electricity last in the US, remember. It's rather isolated, geographically, like other such areas. You know it's bad when access from Canada is easier than from the rest of the USA.
Lordganon (talk) 09:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
The primary company under discussion is Northeastern Packaging, located in Presque Isle, population 9,692 (2010),the largest town in Aroostook. The town had electricity in 1910 as seen clearly in this c. 1910 postcard. This town is about fifty miles up US 1 from Houlton, but on a different power grid.
In the south, near the capital, the local co-op would have probably provided some power by the time the nation was established. Further north, they would be in luck -- four hydro-electric plants from neighboring New Brunswick provide electricity that almost certainly were out of range of the EMP over the midwest. There was no need for fuel to be shipped in, so these plants would be available after the transportation grid, and the pipelines, had been disabled. Maintenance of the available power lines would be essential. This is the power that Northeastern Packaging would have access to.
Here is a picture of 50 Lb bags being made. Sure, this is now, but here is a picture of a simpler machine used in the industry in the 1960's. Note the power supply in the foreground. The article on North Eastern Packaging states they used "state of the art" machinery. Perhaps it was this machine, an an update of the one mentioned above and dated 1970. Dean Machinery lists the next update as being in 1984. The ones in use today look a whole lot like the ones shown at Dean Machinery.
So, that's what I've found so far. The packaging company would probably have ample power. I haven't researched whether paper companies in the area could provide the paper -- with or without power. However, with hydro-electric power plants nearby, machined pulp would not have any problem either way.
One related thought: the hydro-electric plants would be an early incentive for Americans and Canadians to form the nation of Aroostook just as is seen in the article. --SouthWriter (talk) 01:05, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
The entire region got EMP. The dams, power plants, power lines.... everything. And that is the case for the dams over the border, too.
The co-op would have been toast.
South, I did not state that Presque Isle did not have power. Moreover, you make assumptions on the scale of that grid and its expansion.
There wouldn't have been a connection by lines between the two systems, I think, in the early 1980s.
The machine images do not work. Didn't when you first posted, and still don't. And the other links to a gallery - which one do you refer to?
The "state of the art" reference on the paper-bag company's page is an obvious reference to its current machinery, South. Not the machines they once had. And, for that matter, their buildings appear newer than our PoD, which would indicate a move of some sort - which would have come with other upgrades.
Lordganon (talk) 09:48, February 28, 2013 (UTC
The EMPs were not absolute, Ganon. I tried hard to place the explosions in the two places that would "cover" the USA as the time line required. However, in subsequent discussion, almost as a postscript on the effects of EMP's on communications, I showed how the effect of EMP's around the corners were not as severe. You even admitted that certain places would not be as bad. Unfortunately, I did not get any response at the time.
To the right is that file, for what its worth. The light blue sections would be effected, but not as badly. Aroostook would be on the outer edge just like Florida and the west coast would be. There would be outages, and major brown outs, but the systems as a whole would not be toast. However, if you will look at my original post again, you will see that I was proposing that
Your argument seems to be that Presque Isle did not need electricity, and so they would be able to continue to use old manual equipment they happened to have around. My point is that they would have had electricity all along and therefore would be using the equipment available to the industry in the 1980's - a period in which the company was expanding. The picture of the town in 1910 was to demonstrate that at least this town had electricity in a time that Maine was supposedly stuck in the 19th century.
As for the links, I cut and pasted from links on the pages. I have fixed the two links from Dean Machinery. Here is a link to the small "view image" picture (same size as in the gallery), but the best thing is to mouse over the "50 lb bags being made" picture (number 9 of 18, first column, third row). That will pull a larger picture up if your browser is properly equipped. I'm sorry I didn't just copy and then import. But I think these links should work fine now.
You still have not demonstrated that the company would have been using manual equipment in a time they were buying new equipment. The pictures show that the industry had electrically powered machinery from the 1960's on and that the company in a town with electricity from at least 1910 would most likely use such machines. So far, all you have shown is your opinion that they would have been using some antiquated machinery to conserve electricity. That no new paragraph was started for the 1993 expansion would indicate to me that the "state of the art" equipment would have been standard industry equipment from 1972 onward.
Again, show me some evidence for machinery for making paper bags in the mid-20th century that did not use electricity and I'll gladly concede this point. Then, we can decide if electricity would be up and running in time to save the company as the nation was being built in the late 1980's.
Well I have minor out-patient surgery in about 12 hours, so I'd better move along. --SouthWriter (talk) 03:43, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
With regards to electronics, South. That was clearly stated. Some areas are better off in that regard - but that is not what this is at all about. It's about the power grid, in regards to the lines and dams.
The power grid is gone. That's been noted and discussed many times. Indeed, by far the worst damage from the EMP was to that network. This is something that has been noted for decades otl, and atl the implications are obvious. Anywhere the EMP was over, and a long distance beyond that, the grid would have been fried, with damage beyond there. Generating facilities would have gone down at the same rate.
The systems are toast. There is no electricity.
No need to give the link to the image on the bad company's site, lol. Saying the one you were referring to was good enough.
Yes, the machinery site seems to have been taken down to some degree after they were bought out last January - all I've managed with it has been errors while trying to look at those images. They seem to work now, though.
The machine currently at that plant looks more like one from the 1980s listed on the machinery site, though it seems to be a bit updated from even there. I'd guess that it's even newer than that.
The one Dean image, what you refer to as a power supply looks more like hydraulic controls.
And, again: The Northeast site is referring to their current machines as being "state of the art." It's an obvious statement. Their buildings? Newer than the 1980s, indicating a move of some sort, something which the images on their site confirm. Their machinery today is vastly different than what they would have had 30 years ago.
Actually, all that image shows is that the wealthy had it. Doesn't indicate the extent whatsoever. Doesn't prove anything, I'm afraid. Not even close.
Lordganon (talk) 11:19, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
Agriculture[]
I did some resherch on the Agraculture of arootosk conty. They are the largest porducer of broccili on the eastern coast. Arrotosk is also known for its potao crop. Arrotosk also has grows some blueberrys and oats and raises some cattle and pultry. I belive this infomation would be helpful for an agraculture setionGoldwind1 (talk) 22:44, May 26, 2016 (UTC)
Holy Spelling, Batman!
Yes, could be helpful. I imagine that the potato is far more important here atl than it is otl as well.