Talk: Differently

Hello Esbonl, I think your new timeline has a whole lot potential. I am unsure if you would like having collaborators or you would prefer to build your world by yourself, but if you desire any aid on your project I am from the United States America and have lived on both sides of the Mason- Dixon line.

If you would be interest in my help just message me, with a guide of how you would like the USA and CSA to develop in this OTL.

If not good luck, and I'll be reading. Nerdpics (talk) 06:05, September 29, 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest! Since my history knowledge is limited and superficial, I'm definitely needing some expert collaboration, especially considering this ATL involves events in various bits of the world and different periods. This is my first project of something really serious and plausible. My previous ATLs, which I've made just for fun, were quite unrealistic. Please feel free to comment and suggest anything you want. - Esbonl (talk) 06:22, September 29, 2018 (UTC)

Awesome. If you are interested I could make a couple timelines for the USA and CSA plus their political history of these nations.

Also I thought it could be cool to have the CSA go to war against Spain in 1898, instead of the USA like in OTL Spanish American War This Could lead to Cuba and Puerto Rico becoming Confederate States, and the Philippines and Guam remaining colonies of Kingdom of Spain. Nerdpics (talk) 01:48, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

That's a great idea. I was in fact unsure about what to do with the Caribbean and Central America and it's a fact that the Confederates planned to expand to Latin America after their victory. You are welcome to create pages about the CSA and USA, but since there may be accidental conflicts with other parts of the timeline, please remember to use the {{prop}} template on top of each page until we've definitely agreed on how they should be.

Another thing: are you good at maps? We will need some map assistance for this timeline. I'm not talking about extremely complex maps, but those we find at the top of nation infoboxes. For the sake of completeness I plan to include flag, emblem and map on every nation page. - Esbonl (talk) 02:13, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

A good start would be an article on the Civil War. - Esbonl (talk) 06:52, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

War for Southern Independence (Differently) Nerdpics (talk) 20:00, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

Excellent. But with how many states did each side stay with after the war? - Esbonl (talk) 01:32, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

The CSA keep the states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, Tennessee. They also win the Indian Territory (which would have become Oklahoma) and the lower half of the Arizona Territory (which would become the states of New Mexico and Arizona)

I think the modern CSA would have 15 states (South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, Tennessee, Sequoyah {another name for Oklahoma} Arizona, Cuba, and Puerto Rico.

I also made a president list. List of Presidents of the Confederate States (Differently)

What happens to the CSA and the USA in WWI and WWII?

Does the US get Hawaii, does it stay with Britain, or becomes it's own nation? Nerdpics (talk) 02:56, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Awesome list! Good job.

I think Hawaii will most likely remain a British possession. I'm still thinking carefully about the World Wars. There will certainly be many differences, mainly because there is no Ottoman Empire and Nazi Germany (there may be equivalents to them, though). - Esbonl (talk) 02:43, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

Here were a few events that almost started WWI early. (The Russo-Japanese War (1904-05), The Casablanca Incident (1908), and The Agadir Crisis (1911).). You may want to research them and see if they would have happened in your timeline, and if they would have launched the Great War. You might want use something completely original with the PODs of your timeline.

Because of the split of the of the United State do you still want them to become a "Super Power" of the 20th century or would you prefer an alternative in World affairs? (possibly Brazil, China, or Australia)

What are the USA/CSA diplomatic relations? Do you want them to be best of allies, or warring rivals? Nerdpics (talk) 03:57, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

I will think about the World Wars and give an answer soon. This will certainly be a multipolar world, but countries will form larger alliances. Post-WWII Soviet Union will be a very strong power and will participate on a Cold War against a capitalist alliance formed by the US, China, Europe, Brazil a North African power I'm still deciding on (possibly Egypt). With the strategic help of a developed China and those additional powers, this Cold War will be won much more earlier and easier. I'm still quite unsure about the role of the CSA in both World Wars and the Cold War. If they side with the US, this won't make much difference to the bigger picture, but if they don't, things will be very, very different. Imagine a fascist or communist CSA. - Esbonl (talk) 04:36, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

I think I could do a Communist CSA. It would need a Confederate Civil War I'm thing from 1935-1941. (Following the Great Depression and assassination of President Long) which would lead to the establishment of the Confederation of American Socialist States. The CASS would stay natural in WWII, as it would be focused on rebuilding. Yet when the Cold War begins, they would become one of the USSR's closest allies. You might want to make the USA and the new CASS go to war. (Possible from 1963-1972) Making the American War the replacement for the Vietnam War in this timelines because of the early Vietnam victory. (With China and it's allies sending soldiers to aid the US in the war.) Nerdpics (talk) 02:25, October 3, 2018 (UTC)

That's a good idea. Please feel free to write more pages and also add info to existing ones. Meanwhile, I'll be focused on creating articles on countries and calculating the area and population of those with very different territories, a hard task. Afterwards, I'll be carefully devising the World Wars, deciding which nations will participate and finding a good way to fit the CASS in WWII and the Cold War. - Esbonl (talk) 08:28, October 3, 2018 (UTC)

Cool, would you want the CASS to collapse with the USSR, or would you want it to survive to modern times? List of Presidents of the United States (Differently)

Nerdpics (talk) 01:19, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

I'll let you decide this one. If they survive, it'll probably be a result of a victory on a recent Vietnam-styled war, like you said (remember that the USSR falls some decades earlier in this timeline) and they will be still a communist dictatorship to this day. If they don't, the US and the post-CASS state will probably still be kind of rivals today, just like post-communist countries vs the US in OTL. There may be an American version of the fall of Berlin Wall or something. It also possible that the Confederate States gets split in two states (one supportive of the US and another communist one), like Germany, Vietnam, Yemen or Korea. - Esbonl (talk) 08:34, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

The Spanish-Confederacy War (Differently) Nerdpics (talk) 04:53, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

Excellent. I've updated pages and maps to reflect your recent creations. Now Cuba is a part of the CSA in all maps (Puerto Rico is not shown in those, so I couldn't have included it) and I've also linked your lists of presidents to their respective nation pages. - Esbonl (talk) 06:35, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

Confederate Civil War (Differently) I think I will have a American War which will result in the over throw of the CASS government and the reestablishment of the CSA. It will become a little more then a puppet state, but just like you said it would probably become a kind of rival to the USA in the 21st century. (Maybe rebuild ties with Russia, and the enemies of the US.)

Which states will join the CASS? - Esbonl (talk) 15:09, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Other then Louisiana and Cuba (Which government was over thrown by Batista) no other states would officially join. but the Confederate Civil is more like the Spanish Civil in OTL, the war isn't about State vs State, it's political group vs political group. They have Communist militias throughout the Appalachian Mountains, poorer regions of the Deep South, and the eastern part of Texas. After the 8 years, the CASS would force the 13 other states into their Confederation.

After the American war, the CASS government would be over thrown and the CSA government in exile will be brought back in power. Nerdpics (talk) 17:21, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

So does any of the American Nations join the Great War? Nerdpics (talk) 22:33, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I'm still thinking about that. Where can we put the US and CSA? Each one fighting on a different side, the two fighting on the same side or one of them not participating? I'm still developing the war as a whole, which will be a bit complicated since North Africa and the Middle East are completely different in this timeline. Suggestions are welcome. - Esbonl (talk) 22:18, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

And now a brief description of the Great War:

• Austria-Hungary does not participate.
• With no Ottoman Empire, Byzantium and West Persia will basically do what the Ottoman Empire did; they will suffer a lot after losing the war but won't cease to exist.
• Egypt in this timeline will join the Allies and fight mainly against West Persia.
• I'm not planning to do a similarly-scaled WWII. There will be local wars everywhere instead, such as the Germany-Poland war (which, however, there will be inteference from Britain and France since Germany will violate the Versailles Treaty). We can insert the Confederate Civil War among that scenario.

I've made a map of the participating countries:

I've included the US as part of the Allies and the CSA as neutral, but we can change this later. Also, the portion on the northern Arabian Peninsula is British territory.

The whole Great War thing is still a draft. I'm still studying WWI and the history of this timeline's countries to conceive a good scenario. We will be developing it over time. - Esbonl (talk) 22:34, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good. I agree with the US joining the Allies, and the CSA staying neutral.

The US President Teddy Roosevelt was a major supporter of US involvement in the war in OTL. US involvement would have probably happened earlier. Roosevelt would have kept the military preparing for war, and would have declare war on Germany in 1915 if the sinking of the RMS Lusitania still happened.

CS President Woodrow Wilson was against joining the war, and it took a lot of convincing to agree to it in OTL. Wilson would have focused on internal affairs instead. Also the CSA would be more likely to be fighting in the Mexican Revolution to support President Porfirio Díaz against the Revolutionary forces. So the CSA could keep their access to the Pacific via their positive relationship with President Díaz. If the CSA having anything to do with the war, it would probably be President Wilson serving as a moderator during the peace talks.

I also like the idea of many smaller wars instead of another World War. it's a unique take for the timeline which seem quite reasonable. Will there be a League of Nations, or nuclear weapons in this timeline?

Mexico (Differently) Nerdpics

Good job! Sorry for my absence and not answering, I was a little busy those last days. But yes, there will be a League of Nations in this timeline and it will still exist to this day. And there probably won't be nuclear weapons, since nobody will have a really good reason to develop them. I'm posting the contents of the war along a couple of days, but it won't be going to the cannon before we can discuss it and confirm that everything in it is plausible and matches everything else. - Esbonl (talk) 07:49, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

What your thoughts on Japan in this timeline? Nerdpics (talk) 01:59, October 28, 2018 (UTC)

In this timeline, Imperial China never falls and, unlikely in OTL, it's powerful and industrialized by the early 20th century. So, it naturally prevents the ambitious Japanese Empire from emerging. Although it does engage in some wars, Japan never manages to conquer Korea or any other country. I think that a militarily weakened Japan will choose to join the China/USA team and maybe thrive economically. - Esbonl (talk) 15:51, October 28, 2018 (UTC)

Hi, long time no see. Yes when I wrote that during the Southern War for Independence, the CSA had won the lower part of the state of Arizona and New Mexico. Which was the CSA State of Arizona, the USA had the northern parts of the two states which was the USA State of New Mexico.

.

Kind of like this

After the Confederation of American Socialist States fell, the United States annexed the State of Arizona and part of Virginia. So the US State of Arizona would either be split like in the picture, or apart of a Massive New Mexico. Nerdpics (talk) 23:26, July 19, 2019 (UTC)

I also made this The American War (Differently), I know that Mexico would join the US, but I'm unsure who else would ally with them. Nerdpics (talk) 21:54, July 20, 2019 (UTC)

Is this correct?

So I made New Mexico and Arizona a single state, and New Mexico is the biggest state in this alternative US, with California in second. Is the map correct? I'm planning to do the CSA states now.

Also, besides adding subdivisions I will also write some more history for certain countries. I need to outline how China modernized in the second half of the 19th century, which would start with reactionary Empress Dowager Cixi dying about 40 years earlier than in OTL. This is among the things with a great impact on the Cold War of this world, which is polycentric: many great powers fighting in different sides instead of two/a few superpowers. - Esbonl (talk) 13:07, July 21, 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I just saw you've already done the CSA states. Good job! - Esbonl (talk) 13:16, July 21, 2019 (UTC)

Are the Olympics a thing in this Timeline? Nerdpics (talk) 21:56, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

Yes, and I'm planning to write about them soon. In the article about the FIFA World Cup, it is mentioned that it was inspired by the Olympics, and the first modern Olympiad took place in Byzantium (since Greece as a country doesn't exist). - Esbonl (talk) 00:24, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

Awesome Nerdpics (talk) 15:34, July 28, 2019 (UTC)

Got a couple questions for the timeline. What happen to Hawaii? It doesn't go to the US like in OTL so what happens to it? Does it become independent, or stay with the British or maybe become apart of Japan? Nerdpics (talk) 23:16, August 6, 2019 (UTC)

I originally wanted Hawaii to remain a British possession, but recently I've been thinking about making it an independent nation. Still unsure about it. - Esbonl (talk) 06:43, August 7, 2019 (UTC)

Could Egypt have an Olympic game, maybe replacing one of Japanese ones? (1940 or 1964) Nerdpics (talk) 02:31, October 8, 2019 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I have already changed it. - Lnobse (talk) 03:35, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

Plans

Now that I can resume working on Differently, I'm planning to do the following to recent history:

• Outline a Cold War starting at the end of the Great War in 1918 or a little later and ending with the fall of the Soviet Union in 1975. Since the US is much weaker, the dispute will not be between two superpowers like in OTL, but between one superpower (the USSR) and its allies (including the CASS and North Vietnam) against several capitalist great powers, including the US, Western Europe, Brazil, Australia, South Vietnam and so on.
• Determine the technological situation of the world. The history of computers, mobile phones and video games will be a little (or considerably) different in this timeline, but I'm still unsure how.
• Cultural and social tweaks. Some people that died in OTL will survive, while others that survived will die. The same goes for places, buildings, practices, trends, etc. Movies, books, games, television shows, websites, characters and fiction franchies... Some will be very different, some will be new, some will be the same. I'm still thinking about it.

- Lnobse (talk) 03:35, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

Cool. Let me know what you are thinking and I'll try to help where I can. Nerdpics (talk) 02:44, January 3, 2020 (UTC)

I would like to know your thoughts on this addition to the timeline.Time Person of the Year (Differently) It's still a work in progress. Does anyone need to be removed or I forgot to add so far? Nerdpics (talk) 20:00, January 4, 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. You did a fantastic job there! It's detailed and creative and so far it fits perfectly into the timeline. Just be careful with anything related to technology after 1950 because I'm still largely unsure about how it's going to be. Lnobse (talk) 19:55, January 12, 2020 (UTC)

One thing I failed to notice: Since China never becomes a communist country in this timeline and is even a US ally during the Cold War, I'm not sure if Nixon visiting China would be as impacting as it was in OTL. The absence of a colossal ally like China is what makes the USSR not as powerful in Differently, even with a larger territory that includes Alaska. Perhaps Nixon would visit another communist country such as Cuba, or the PRP, or its war enemy North Vietnam (which the US defeats in this TL), or the USSR itself. - Lnobse (talk) 20:11, January 12, 2020 (UTC)

The Kennedy Family (Differently) What do you think? I even added some changes to popular culture that happen in this timeline. I still need to add some of the younger generation.

That looks interesting. I've added some links and bold text for aesthetic reasons, and changed the lead template from "proposal" to "under construction", as I did with Time Person of the Year, so that they are officially part of the TL and you can keep working on them. For the article to look more encyclopedic, I have also changed much of the text from conditional to past tense and removed the captions and "the" from the title for it to look less emphatic. Don't mind these stylistic quirks; they are more like a preference of mine. You are doing a great job on your own way!

Soon I will be adding more historical maps so that we can have an idea of how the world looked like 100, 500, 1000, or 2000 years ago and in between. I will be also writing about the second half of the 20th century in regards to technology and popular culture, including computing, video games, movies, and all that stuff. As always, some stuff will be the same as in OTL, others will never come to be, and others that never came to be in OTL will in this one. You are welcome to participate and make any suggestions you want, especially considering that right now I only have a few ideas about this and I need much more. - Lnobse (talk) 05:45, January 24, 2020 (UTC)

How does the Scramble for Africa go down?

I'm interested in contributing to this scenario but I can barely find anything about the scramble for Africa. Did it even happen in the first place?

(Romromglom (talk) 20:51, September 7, 2020 (UTC))

Yes, but only south of the Sahel, as you can see in the map of Africa. The northern African nations were Catholic, so they were considered something like an extension of Europe and didn't suffer European colonization. The only exception to this is Central Sahel (the equivalent of OTL Niger and Chad), which was a French colony until 1961. - Lnobse (talk) 11:06, September 8, 2020 (UTC)

This timeline HAS to get a sterling

This is a magnificent timeline

Khalif Ali Husain2 (talk) 02:53, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! We really appreciate that our work is being noted. - Lnobse (talk) 21:13, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Why these PODs don't mix well

This was shot down as a featured timeline due to implausibility. Now, I didn't vote in that, but I do see how some PODs could contradict each other.

First of all, why did Egypt stay independent? More detail, please. Secondly, this should've affected at least the Crisis of the Third Century... which would've affected the division between West Rome and Byzantium. How did Palmyra do without Egypt? What was used to claim land - OTL, one of the reasons why Zenobia temporarily got away with conquering Egypt was descent from Cleopatra. Is this assumed to be true? If so, how does that affect Egypt-Palmyra relations? The Palmyrenes could probably conquer an independent Egypt in the aftermath of taking Judaea and Syria.

Caesarion was also Cleopatra's child with Julius Caesar - how does that affect Egypt-Rome relations, considering it puts a Roman ruler on Egypt's throne? Why don't Caesarion and his descendants attempt conquests of Roman lands during periods of anarchy in Rome, such as the Year of Four Emperors and the Crisis of the Third Century?

All of this could've messed with the formation of Byzantium alone.

Even assuming Byzantium is formed, why do the Arabs form a truce with the Sassanids? And how does Byzantium resist? They lost Yarmuk OTL, and that was due to wars with the Sassanids.

Why does Carthage declare independence? Byzantium isn't going to be anywhere near OTL's anarchy - that was because of the Arab Conquests. And they don't need to protect Egypt, which means that they'll value Africa far more for its grain. How do the Carthaginians get away with it?

Why is Persia so much more successful than OTL? And why aren't the denizens of the area (Syria, Mesopotamia, and Judaea) not more pissed about being the constant battleground between two great powers?

Why are there even crusaders at all? There aren't Muslims with political influence outside Arabia. It's arguable that the Zoroastrian conquest of the Holy Land triggered this, but the Second Sassanid Empire's religious toleration should offset this. The withdrawal of effective religious tolerance by the Seljuks is what triggered them.

Speaking of which... what happened to the Seljuks and the Turks? Why didn't they conquer the Sassanids? Why didn't the Mongols conquer the Sassanids, for that matter?

All of the PODs should've led to huge changes in the structure of Spain, France, Germany, Portugal, and Britain. Why do Germany, Austria-Hungary, Britain, and America all still exist? The butterflies should've killed them. The Norman Conquest never would've happened, realistically.

I have more, but you get the point. Sorry for the long rant. The idea is intriguing, but it's not plausible. ReclaimLandThatIsMine (talk) 04:55, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Requesting a Ratification

Greetings, Ladies, Gentlemen, and other identifications, I, am Testingdummynumber55! I have written up an article based on this topic, known as "Alexander the Great", and I have come here to request an approval. I am not fully sure how this works, as this is my first big contribution to here. Sincerly, Testingdummynumber55,September 29, 2022, 3:30 Central Daylight Time, United States.

Hello. Thank you for your interest in Differently - we always welcome new contributors. We would be pleased to discuss that with you in real time in our Discord server. There is the best place for that, but if for some reason you can't join in, please let me know so we can continue the discussion here or somewhere else. - Lnobse (talk) 16:33, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

RESPONSE / TESTINGDUMMYNUMBER55 I have joined! My user is iPimp.

Proposal page

I have a new proposal for differently, which is about Tom Holland, who was made into a film review screener.

New P.o.D.

Honestly, I want to see another nation. Here's my idea- In the Byzantine Empire, unrest begins in the regions of modern-day Albania, (I forgot its differently name, sorry.) Since Charles' fail to create Albania, this state is not going to be called Albania, but New Macedonia due to high populations of Macedonians at areas like Tirane and Durres. The Byzantine legislation already dealing with foreign issues like supporting West Persia, they hold a national referendum. This ultimately ends up with the New Macedonian Commonwealth forming due to many votes being absent. I'll leave the capital up to others (or you) because I don't want to take everything, buts here's some ideas. The old capital of the state or Durres, presuming that that was built even under Byzantine rule. The Byzantine Empire is currently at an indifferent stance with the N.M.C. Enemies: None thus far-Allies: None thus far. I'll leave the leader, future, and the rest of the nation up to other (or you) to mold and create.

More Latin American nations

let's make more nations in latin america, in this timeline it is full of unions and occuped countries but we can "balkanize" it more y'know in Africa are a lot of countries and in latin america are a little amount of them, thank you for understanding all. Matitheanimator (talk) 18:08, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

The idea is very good, South America should actually be more countries. Matitheanimator (talk) 8:24, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Good!Chunhui948 (talk) 9:22, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

About "Differently" The reset of the Chinese area,I have my own ideas.

• 1.Since the Empress Dowager Cixi died of tuberculosis in this timeline, China's westernization movement should have changed and succeeded. But the social conflict is very serious.This led to the early entry of the Republic of China, but since Yuan Shikai may have died early for some reason, China's warlord chaos may have changed, and it is not the same as OTL. At that time, the Socialist Party and the left of the KMT, the united front of the Communist Party may defeat the right of the KMT and the northern warlord forces, unify China, and occupy Xinjiang and Tibet. So that a unified democratic republic will emerge and become the dominant power in Asia, and they will probably take further control of Xinjiang and Tibet. These two places will become one of their provinces.So, I think the China setup of this timeline could use a major reset.

• 2.After the premature unification of China, a rising China will come into conflict with Japan, but not with OTL. Japan lost just as much as OTL.

Chunhui948 (talk) 12:40, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello there!

May I please contribute to this timeline? Thanks in advance! Addycakes2 (talk) 23:10, 5 April 2024 (UTC)