Alternative History

Attempts to contact the authorities of those three countries would be through their embassies.

Parliament does not have the ability to summon ambassadors like that. The PM can call them to his office, though that is considered to be improper, at best.

What you would see is the ambassador request a meeting with the PM, get it, hammer through a quick treaty (Jamaica should get something out of that, fyi) which the PM gets a quick approval of in Parliament.

Not going to see an emergency session, either, unless Parliament was in recess at the time - it should not have been, mind - it would just be normal session.

Can sell the hotels and other tourism spots all you want, but... who would buy them? Not like there would be a market for them. More likely, the government just converts some of them into housing. These areas would also be where they house refugees, and stranded tourists stay. Think of it being somewhat like apartments. The rest stay hotels, just go cheaper for the locals. Any other tourism assets, just redirect output to the locals.

If you go by that as meaning they are a "de facto socialist government," then the whole "western" world is as well. Not really an accurate statement.

Lordganon (talk) 08:54, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Corrected on Ambassador-Parliament diplomatic protocol.

Fair point on the tourism assets.

As for socialism, corrected. The term I was looking for was 'state capitalism.' Regentage (talk) 16:40, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Religion[]

What is the source of your claims to the religious beliefs of present day Jamaica (TTL)?  I checked on the Rastafari and it seems possible since "some reports" inflate those numbers in OTL.  If you are going to create a "Marist Christianity" out of what is traditional Catholic Christiany, then the "Protestant Faith" ought to be "Protestant Christianity."  Personally, I think that  transforming Catholicism into a sect (aka "cult") is demeaning. However, it might be interesting if you could produce a plausible history of the rise of such a transformation.  SouthWriter (talk) 19:08, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

I've lowered the number of Protestants as compared to OTL, while increasing the number of Rastafari adherents a fair bit. I did so under the reasoning that the majority religion would suffer the most losses after DD, while a religion like the Rastafari movement, which rejects established society, would grow.

As for Marinist Christianity, it was not my intention to offend anyone. However, what I've described has no associations with Catholicism. Roman Catholicism still exists, completely unassociated with Marinist Christianity, with almost as many followers as Marinism (2%.) I can mention Catholicism if something in the article is misleading.

As I envison it, Marinist Christianity actually split off from Protestantism, in the wake of DD. I'm hoping to write an article on it eventually. Regentage (talk) 02:25, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry Reg, but your scheme is completely implausible.  Such a cult as the Rastari would not be stronger just because it "rejects established society.  Society in Jamaica was not as disrupted as you might think.  They had the Atlantic fleet at their disposal and was the glue that held the ECF together.  The Protestant denominations of Jamaica were mostly nonconformist, the most common being the Church of God (24%).  Second to that is the Seventh Day Adventists, a group on the fringe of Protestantism (11%).  Following that are the Pentacostal churches (10%), not so much a denomination as a "movement."  These three, making up almost half of the population are not "establishment" churches, so DD would not effect their faith much at all.

The historical "establishment churches" listed are the Baptists (7%), Anglican (4%), Methodist (2%) and Catholic (2%).  Also in there is the United Church (2%), an ecumentical body of churches most likely to be tied to the society which you think was so disrupted.  Other minor denominations make up another three percent, for a total 59% protestant and 2% Catholic.  The "Marinist" cult that you propose sounds a whole lot like the Marianists, or Society of Mary ("mother of God," with Jesus being God incarnate).  What you propose, with a "Mother" god and environmentalist beliefs, is bizarre.  If you want to create a religion, fine, but don't suppose that it would grow to be even the size of the minority Catholic population on the island.

Study the Christian religion, Reg, and see if it falters in time of adversary. With no "state church," Jamaica's religious community would certainly not suffer from governmental disruption. On the contrary, the government most likely would embrace the help of the charities run by the churches. Your "vision" of religion needs some adjusting before this section can pass the muster of community acceptance. Remember, this is still a proposal.  SouthWriter (talk) 04:06, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, based off of the response I'm recieving here, I'm going to simply remove religion from the article entirely. There appears to be strong emotions regarding the Christian religion here, and I would rather not tread such sticky ground. If it contributes nothing but controversy to the article, the section is merely dead weight.

I feel compelled to say, however, that you may wish to tone down your language in regards to religion, so as not to offend other contributors. A sect is a very different thing from a cult, and you insult Hindus by describing a sect as a cult. You also insult the entire Rastafari community by referring to it as a cult. Beyond that, calling religions containing environmentalist beliefs and female deities 'bizarre' is offensive to a large segment of the world population. You seem very passionate about the Christian religion, and I commend you for that, but there is no need to resort to hostility to defend it. Certainly not while insulting a collection of other religious beliefs, which, I remind you, might possibly be held by other contributors. Regentage (talk) 15:51, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

Reg, I apologize for equating "cult" and "sect."  Indeed, they are not the same.  A cult is a system built around a certain set of beliefs concerning a person or deity that approaches a differentiated religion of its own.  A sect is but a division of a historical religion that holds certain tenants not held by others of the same religion.  I did not refer to Hindus as a cult, so that particular admonition is out of line.  There are sects in Hinduism which I consider as a whole to be a religion rather than a cult.  As for the Rastafari community, it has developed only in modern times through veneration of the late emperor of Ethiopia. As followers of a human deemed as divine, with clear claims to be be connected to both Judaism (via Solomon) and Christianity (via incarnation as a second coming), the "movement" fits well into the definition of "cult."

In referring to your proposed "Marinist" religion as "bizarre" I was unkind to you. "Bizarre" is quite subjective, meaning "strikingly out of the ordinary." To me, basing a religion on ancient pagan myth ("Mother Earth" or Gaia, for instance) is most assuredly "out of the ordinary." For others, it may be quite normal. If it is ordinary to you and your friends, then by all means, defend it. However, to call a supposed religion a sect of Christianity and keep it out of the realm of "cult," you certainly can't claim God to be "a female figure."  In deferance to your insistance that "Marinist" was not related to Catholicism, I took this "sect" to be nothing more than "nature worship,"  and out of the ordinary forms of Christianity.  What is the origin of "Marinist" if not a misspelling of "Marianist"?

I have no ill will towards you or those who hold different belief systems to my own, so to refer to my choice of words, cult and bizarre, as "hostility" is out of order.  I appologize for offending you by the use of these terms.  If anyone else who reads this page is offended, my apologies extend to them as well.  If I were to have been "hostile" to your addition of this paragraph, I could have deleted what I thought as "implausible" outright.  All I was attempting was to assure some plausiblity to the article.  

I suggest that you write up that article on the Refartari community in connection with both Jamaica and Ethiopia.  As for "Marinist Christianity" you might well be able to build a case for a robust enviromental community on Jamaica without assuming a female deity connected with Christianity.  The section does not have to be excised to please me or anyone else.  Religion is a big part of what Jamaica is and would be in TTL, and should not be dropped as "dead weight."  SouthWriter (talk) 18:26, March 3, 2014 (UTC)