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What happened to Belleville & Trenton?

The article makes mention of exploring out to Oshawa in later years, but makes no mention of Belleville & Trenton, which are much closer to Kingston (about 70 km & 90 km to the east) and about half-way to Oshawa. Both cities would have been around 30,000-40,000 each, and Trenton was home to CFB Trenton, an air base that housed CC-130 Hercules transports and Search & Rescue helicopters. One could assume that the transport aircraft evacuated personnel out to the Maritimes right after Doomsday.

Thebaron88 04:58, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Both were overrun by refugees and radiation from further west. Those who survived ended up in Kingston.

Belleville is right on the western border - the city itself is just inside the controlled region.

As for the aircraft, remember the EMP, radiation damage from Toronto, and the refugees. None made it.

Lordganon 07:36, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

The C-130 Hercules were EMP-hardened to some extent though - a quick search I did on Google revealed an article about some guy who worked on EMP-protecting Lockheed aircaft in the 1970s. for the purposes of the story though, one could assume that they bugged out to the Maritimes when the government fled east.

Thebaron88 23:10, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Note the words To some extent. They are inoperable. Entirely so. On that there is no debate, or question. And, for the record, the Canadian government moved eastward from Kingston by foot when it fled. Do the math.Lordganon 04:04, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Once again, the intention is not to change the story, but to fill in what I saw as a gap that was missed in the original. CFB Trenton was a major airbase close to Kingston, but it was not mentioned - perhaps it was hit by a tactical nuke? I assume the same could be said about CFB Petawawa (the major land forces base in Central Canada - equivalent to CFB Gagetown in importance) 140 km NW of Ottawa - if Gagetown was nuked in canon, then Petawawa should have been hit as well, which would explain why the government fled to Kingston first...

Regarding EMP and aircraft, any unprotected transistor or micro-processor components that were not EMP protected on these military aircraft would be inoperable, but basic mechanical components (analog altimeters, air speed indicators, hard wire control cables for control services) would be unaffected. Older aircraft built in the 1960s and 1970s would definitely have mechanical analog instruments, but if the brand new 1983 model only had unprotected electronic avionics as the control panel, then I agree that they are pooched. Losing communications and electronic navigation equipment on an older aircraft would seriously degrade capabilities, but they'd be able to fly, but only in good weather during the daytime.

I found the following about EMP and military equipment at http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/1988/CM2.htm :

Most susceptible to EMP are those components with low voltage
and current requirements such as solid state devices, integrated
circuits, semi conductor devices, digital computers, digital
circuitry, alarm systems and electronic sensors. Generally, as the
size of the device decreases, its ability to absorb voltage and
current decreases, which results in increased susceptibility to EMP.
Vacuum-tube equipment, inductors, tube transmitters and receivers,
low current relays and switches are less susceptible. Equipment
designed for high voltage use such as motors, transformers, radars,
relays, lamps and circuit breakers are not susceptible

Thebaron88 05:09, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Major airbase is a major exaggeration on your part. Trenton is not a threat, so not nuked. And, the only airbase hit at all in Canada, in its own right, is CFB Cold Lake.

Petawawa may hold a similar position at present to Gagetown, but this is not the present. This is 1983 we are talking about, when it did not have the headquartered position it does today. At that time - heck, this holds true to the present, too - there was only a few thousand people on the base. Gagetown is larger, and has been so for a long time. It's also one of the two main training bases for the Canadian forces, the loss of which cripples reinforcements. And, I'll admit, a large portion of the reasoning for it was to explain the position in NB and to make the situation in the region possible. If Petawawa gets hit, then we have to add a dozen targets to Canada, killing off almost all of the survivor states. And, of course, you're exaggerating its importance, too.

Why would they flee to Petawawa, a small army base? There's really no point to that. Their going south fits much better with policies held by the government, as well as what its needs would be in such a situation.

That document really doesn't help your cause, being from the 1980s. Anyhoo....

Perhaps the one thing you are missing entirely in all of that is that EMP protection is not guaranteed, even if military grade. Besides that, the mechanical systems you're quoting do in fact have small electronic control components. For example, the ignition in pretty much any vehicle that has either been updated/upgraded - the majority of military vehicles fall into place here, if not modern - or any modern one is going to be fried by EMP, with the "firing" part having been disabled. Any circuit or wire can suffer damage, and with the number in place in any of these, damage to all is a given.

And, Analog instruments, while harder to damage, are not immune.

With aircraft, virtually all will lose their radios and navigation, but the majority will lose all controls, or suffer a similar level of failure elsewhere.

They ain't flying anywhere. Even if they can coble together from all of the damaged ones a working model, which would take weeks at best, the lingering EMP effects in the air, along with the dust from the blasts, would make a trip nearly impossible.

Lordganon 20:26, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Title problem

Hum guys?

Why is this still named after a defunct country when it's current name is "East Ontario territory" or something like that now that it became part of Canada under a new name?


SigmaHero045 (talk) 19:39, June 16, 2019 (UTC)

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