College would have basically stopped "until further notice" after DD. Not really anything to quit.
Too soon for them to be touring Ontario at all.
Would not move to Toledo both that fast after its discovery, and before contact would have happened. Yes, 1989, but in the early part of the year? No.
Music videos, not happening.
Unless you have a specific label in mind, remove the part about jingles and novelty songs.
Gary Talpas, resident of Cleveland unless you found something that says he would not be there.
Lordganon (talk) 16:35, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough on the college point, I'll remove that.
When would be the earliest that he could tour outside Toledo/Pennsylvania? As a follow-up question, do you think it would be possible for Reznor to eventually become commercially successful outside the continent, and if so, when?
I'll have him move to Toledo more towards the end of the year then. That's simply a matter of switching the order around a bit on his first album.
Music videos are completely out? I figured at the very least he could record what is essentially a home movie that gets passed around.
There's a bunch of record labels like that in Toledo and elsewhere. Even if there isn't a specific one of that description, I'd imagine one could be founded after the point of divergence, perhaps from the ruins of a real one. The point I was trying to make was that it's a small recording studio, not one that makes massively commercial tracks. Mscoree (talk) 17:24, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
Probably not until late 1991 or so at best. Takes time, you know? Got to get things set up, etc.
The Toledo bit, not until sometime in 1990, as a guess.
More or less out. Even camcorders or such things are going to be pretty worthless right now - and even if he made such a recording, how would they listen to it?
Not saying that he would not have one, just to remove the added "jingle" and "novelty song" part.
And, as noted before, Gary Talpas is going to be dead.
Lordganon (talk) 12:47, January 13, 2015 (UTC)
1991 sounds fair enough. When I was writing that section I intended for those tours to occur between 1989 and 1992 anyway.
Originally I had planned for him to become famous in Toledo, then have a feud with his original label and move back to Pennsylvania. Might have to switch the order around, or have his first album come out a year late. Either way works fine I think.
Good point on the music video, that will be removed. Same with the "jingle" and "novelty song" part.
Since I can't find any evidence to the contrary, I'll assume Gary Talpas died, and will remove that too.
Thanks for the suggestions so far. Mscoree (talk) 15:42, January 13, 2015 (UTC)
Switching it around would make more sense. That way, at least he would have some local connections to help get a deal. Lordganon (talk) 17:46, January 13, 2015 (UTC)
Mscoree, by mid 2008-2010, Reznor could have toured the Commonwealth of Susquehanna. The government liked musicians to tour the nation, as it boosted moral. Daeseunglim (talk)
Yes, but probably before that. Mscoree (talk) 14:51, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
First contact with North Penn occurred around 1999-2000, and official relations didn't begin until around 2004. Not exactly sure when Reznor went back to North Penn, so that may affect that date. What date were you thinking? Daeseunglim (talk)
Don't you think North Pennsylvania and Susquehanna would be in contact relatively quickly, especially considering it was only a few years until they came into contact with Toledo, which is further away and through irradiated areas? They even border each other. Mscoree (talk) 16:02, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
It borders State College, not North Pennsylvania. They also were focused on internal development and didn't explore around them. I didn't come in contact with Toledo until 2003-2004ish.
Most other PA survivor states believed that northeast Pennsylvania was a wasteland from the NYC strikes and strikes on Scranton and Wilkes Barre. Daeseunglim (talk)
I was talking about how North Pennsylvania contacted Toledo in only a few years, not Susquehanna to Toledo. According to the already established canon, North Pennsylvania contacts Toledo after a few years, same with states in Canada. If they can contact Canadian states after a few years, I doubt we need to wait nearly thirty years to contact someone who is no where near as far. Furthermore, how would nuclear strikes in New York City or any of the other places you mention affect North Pennsylvania, which is no where those areas, and actually farther away from them. If anything North Pennsylvania would be saying that about Susquehanna, not the other way around, since Susquehanna is closer to the places you listed. Mscoree (talk) 23:49, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
North Penn and Toledo, however, are both on the lake, and would have been actively using it for fishing. A question of when, not if, they come into contact. Same applies for the Canadian state they first communicate with. With Susquehanna, Dae does have a point with the nuclear bit - and State College has only been expanding that way in recent years. SC would have been getting reports of gangs, bandits, etc. out that way, and included Sus~ with those too, had they heard of them anything other than directly. They and others would not move that way in that context - why bother fighting gangs that are screwing with each other and not you, plus are a fair distance away? Know I would not. Lordganon (talk) 17:33, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
Okay I guess that makes more sense. Just to add though, according to the State College page, they establish a mutual assistance pact with Oil City, which is in North Pennsylvania, in 1995. From what I can tell the main area hostile to State College was the town of St. Marys. From there it says the two effectively crippled the St. Marys city state. The page also says that State College acquired some towns in New York, which appear to border North Pennsylvania in that area. Towns like Punxsutawney, which joined State College early on are very close to North Pennsylvania, in fact the city is like twenty-five miles away from the major North Pennsylvania settlement of Clarion, and I'd imagine even closer to more minor Pennsylvanian settlements. With that said I think it's pretty likely that State College would be in contact with North Pennsylvania. Susquehanna, perhaps a bit later. Mscoree (talk) 17:55, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
Main area, yes, but they had gangs and the like all around them.
The North Penn area of NY were later acquisitions, and the SC parts too.
Have a closer look at the dates in those sections, the SC part states in the late 1980s and the 1990s.
Given the local situation, it is probable that SC had just acquired said area shortly before really hearing that NP was not just a hyped-up gang.
You gotta think - how many such tales would they have heard of the years? Bet on a lot. After a certain point, especially with the one problem spot, they just aren;t going to acknowledge them any longer. Could not blame them.
Lordganon (talk) 18:55, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
Alright got it. I guess I need to remember that this is mostly rural Pennsylvania, so communication is slow. I'd say North Pennsylvania at least is in contact with State College by the mid 90's, given the joint military operations, so I'll have his first tour there happen after that. Mscoree (talk) 21:36, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
Slow, and filled with "bad" people.
That would work for a date, though I would emphasize needing extra security precautions for the trip.
Lordganon (talk) 10:14, January 18, 2015 (UTC)
Susquehanna, although the map shows all of the counties, the actual control is more like direct control over the cities, roads, and a few farms. It has loose control over the rest of the territory. Daeseunglim (talk)
Right. Same would apply to some degree for the other two states - map isn't the best, I'm afraid. Lordganon (talk) 12:03, January 19, 2015 (UTC)
Yep. I could have drawn it like that, but it would have been a pain. Daeseunglim (talk)