Police State[]
I highly doubt that popular mayor Louis Tullio would have taken on the role of dictator as to demand the shooting on sight of petty theft and vandalism. Furthermore, I don't think that state police (who would have been under authority of now-dead administrators in Harrisburg any way) would obey such harsh orders. An authority structure based on the major of a single city over several counties is questionable; though the recently elected, an so-far untested, county executive Judith Lynch probably would have been less likely than long-time major Tullio to mount such an effort.
In my opinion, order could surely have been maintained with less violent actions. If the authorities had been so hard-nosed, I doubt if they would have been able to remain "in power" for long any way. A "state"-wide populace of a half-million, or more, could not be corralled into such subservient mass of humanity - even a willing army of gun-toting, and trigger-happy, police. --SouthWriter 16:02, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
Cars[]
Just to clarify where are the resources coming from for these 1500 cars produced every year? --GOPZACK 17:00, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
Here is your answer:
Steel mines are in somewhat of an abundance in Pennsylvania, so that should clarify some of it.
Glass for windshields and spotlights is imported from Toledo.
Lubricants, oils, and gasoline are found in hundreds of gas pools across Pennsylvania. Arstarpool 17:06, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
- First, "steel mines" do not exist. Steel mills do, but what we need are "iron ore mines" which are not that abundant in the area. On the far shores on Lake Superior, on the other hand, you can find a lot of iron ore. We can assume trade with Superior would facilitate the steel industry in Pennsylvania. Also, you have to consider coal mines to provide the best source of carbon for most steels. Other minerals, especially metals, need to be available for many of the grades of steel produced in the mills.
- Also, "gas pools" do not exist!! I took the liberty of changing that to "oil fields" in the article. "Natural gas" is also very abundant, but that is not the same thing as "gas" in the sense used here. Gasoline and diesel have to be refined from crude oil, of which the nation has to be the best source east of the Mississippi. There are also refineries in the NW corner of the state, so fuel oils should not be a problem. SouthWriter 17:30, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
Abundant or not, they exist in the NW corner of the state. You're idea with Superior is good, but remember they are in a full-blown war right now and most metals are prolly going to war efforts. I'm just going to shrink the size down to "1,500 cars have been produced from the factory". Arstarpool 18:16, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
- My first reading I missed what you were referring to. You are saying that there is iron ore for the mining in amongst the oil and natural gas. This is good, I couldn't find reference to them in my short search, but it still will be necessary to go to other sources for materials needed to keep the steel mills going. In house materials would probably last only for a short while.
My point was is are no such thing as a "gas pool." I even looked it up -- nada. It is not a term that is used for natural gas even. "Gas" is gasoline, and it does not exist in "pools," because it would evaporate much too fast and endanger all life within the fumes due to both affixiation and cumbustion danger. What do exist are "oil fields," or better, "oil deposits." Most of these have been found already and are actively being drilled. Your section of Pennsylvania was the birthplace of the oil industry and still has producing wells.Sorry, I misread your reference to the iron ore deposits.
- Actually though, I don't think "full-blown war" is accurate for the state of affairs between Superior and Canada. The Republic is backing the breakaway nation, but not at the expense of international relations. They would probably not even have the facilities to build vehicles of their own. Their best bet is to provide the raw materials to those nations that are both friendly to them and willing to build vehicles to replace the ones they wear out. SouthWriter 02:01, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
Ecology vs. Survival[]
I find it a little odd that the government would "ban" powered fishing boats from its harbors - even at a late date of 2006 - when fishing is a major source of food and income for so much of the population of the nation. At the same time, the "discovery" of gravel in the lake provides a source for foundation material for road repair. I would think that road repair would mostly be by the application of petroleum-based blacktop to the roads as they weathered. The dredging of the lake (rather than the wilderness strethching into the interior) for gravel makes NO ecological sense.
In fact, ecology probably would be the last thing to be considered in a world that was fighting to survive. The "natural wildlife" would be considered "fair game" in the ongoing struggle up until recent times, at least. The harvesting of the Great Lakes would be far more important than their use for transportation, though transport of goods to and from Superior and Toledo would definitely be via the lakes. SouthWriter 17:06, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
How 'bout now? Basically I "restricted" rather than banned in order to keep local fishing stocks alive and healthy. Arstarpool 18:23, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
Oil Industry Profits[]
Your comment about the "very, very large profits" that Pennzoil and Quaker State would make is off base. Market forces in the post-apocolyptic age would be vastly different. This is especially true for the case of a self-sufficient nation-state using most of its oil for its own survival. The abundance of the commodity, and the efficiency of its refineries, would lower the price of most of the oil to such an extent that the "Big Oil" bosses would probably be working for the state. As the capacity to actually ship the oil and the refined fuels to other markets increased, then the profits would increase, but only as far as the market would allow.
Most independent nations would have learned to utilize what resources they had, and by the time trade agreements were made with other nations, the demand would have lowered, keeping pricing to a reasonable point. By 2000, I suppose, profits of surviving or new oil companies would begin to increase, but not nearly to the point they are in OTL (which, by the way, are not that high compared to many less essential commodities). SouthWriter 17:59, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
You will have to delete Pennzoil from the text. The company had been moved to Houston, Texas, in the 1970's. From what I can tell, though, Quaker State was still operating as such in the state from which it took its name. SouthWriter 14:33, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
Oil Refineries[]
Good news! With all that oil, you also have two refineries. You need to play up the following locations -
- Bradford Refinery (American Refining Group), Bradford 10,000 bbl/d (1,600 m3/d)
- Warren Refinery, United Refining Company, Warren 70,000 bbl/d (11,000 m3/d)
Together these two refineries produce 80,000 barrels per day. That is 17,600 m3/d (17,600,000 liters!). That is
4,643,799 ½ gallons, or enough fuel oil to fill 23,219 200-gallon fuel tanks PER DAY! I think the million or so people of the nation are safe in their oil furnaced homes in the winter (assuming the pumps are running). Vehicles powered by diesel and gasoline would have enough -- 232,190 20-gallon tanks PER DAY. That's one car for each family of four. The trucks and trains, of course, use a lot more fuel, as would the power plants and factories. But I think there is plenty to go around -- as long as the oil wells don't run dry.
With trade agreements, you could have quite some leverage with the other nation-states of the region. SouthWriter 16:17, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you, South! Yet another good discovery by you :-)
- Actually I was thinking the trains could run on steam or coal, so as not to use up all the precious gas there, and most factories could run on some other natural gas, but whatever is realistic I will try to do. Arstarpool 16:28, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
Again, you have to have a source for the coal. You would have to trade with the Virginia Republic or some other place for the coal to run steam engines. Besides, it is the diesel trains that are already running. Steam engines are a thing of the past and conversion is not an easy thing to do. Factories might very well be running on natural gas -- worth looking into. SouthWriter 16:58, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
London had to make due with what they had and started making Biodiesel for use in generators and their own diesel engines. By the time the two nations meet, their processing will have advanced and they could start selling biodiesel for use in the diesel locomotives.Oerwinde 08:48, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
Other cities[]
What happened to the towns of Erie County. Union City, though a lot smaller than Meadville, was closer and could have absorbed many of the refugees before they got to the larger town. As people sought refuge, they would first go to nearby towns. They would only go further when those towns proved hazzardous. The radiation from Erie would mostly have gone to the north, according to the prevailing winds of the area. The area of West Pennsylvania would have probably had to contend more with the radiation and refugees from the Pittsburgh area. This also goes for Oil City and Warren, each even further away than Meadville.
I recommend Google Earth (or Mapquest if you must) to estimate the particular influx of refugees into the area. Writing out Erie is going to be a pain, and a port city is a must, but this project is definitely doable. Don't worry about rushing it to canonization, though. Just enjoy it. It's a good addition to the Great Lakes community. SouthWriter 17:09, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
I beg of you, please help me with this. I can only log on for like 30 minutes a day and even then I am rushed. Arstarpool 21:40, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
Sure, Alex. I think I'll spread the folks abandoning Erie along the coast first, and then down into the county. The smaller towns will be overwhelmed, of course. So the bigger towns you mentioned will be the seat of the new government. I'm working on the Caribbean this evening, though, and it may be a few days before I can get much done on West Pennsylvania. SouthWriter 01:00, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
Is "Lake Erie City" a new city built from the ruins of the abandoned city of Erie? Or perhaps Lake City renamed after receiving the bulk of the refugees? SouthWriter 01:45, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
A new city on the "little Penninsula" on Lake Erie that incorporates the extreme north of former city of Erie. Arstarpool 02:23, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
- It might work as a refugee camp, but why a new city. If the city of Erie had to be abandoned due to a hit in its southside region, I'd think that utilizing existing cities would be a lot more efficient. I'd say build up Lake City instead. It's a safe distance (and down wind) and on the coast rather than inland as the new capital at Warren is. I can see the smaller city accommodating the refugees while co-oprating with the government that had escaped to Warren (in good time) to exploit the resources available by way of Lake Erie. SouthWriter 02:51, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Arstar that plan just might work! Here's a map I put together (Hopefully it posts, this wretched internet on the airplane is awful) I centered a 650kt strike over the Erie International Airport (the most likely target in my mind). Anyway the one thing that may complicate things is that pesky fallout. Hope this helps! --GOPZACK 02:55, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh there is this handy box at the bottom with some more info
- Good software. Similar to that which I usually use. If the airport was the target, then the eastern side of town would indeed be free to be salvaged as the new port. The blast would force most of the refugees east and south, cutting off the westernmost towns, like
- Lake City, from the bulk of the survivors of Erie. But I'm still not sure this should be the "largest" city of the state. SouthWriter 03:20, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
Forgiveness Policy?[]
Sounds like a Soviet reeducation camp to me. I don't see it being that effective. The only way most of the raiders will go away is by force I'm afraid. --GOPZACK 03:01, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
Mr. Pothier indeed it is a reeducation camp. It will be sponsored by the Amish and the other minor Penn. Dutch groups that are all about helping people and this would be a great opportunity to employ these former thugs and raiders. While many would decline, many who are tired of the "shoot, stab, rape" life would opt in for the program and they would be trained in St. Marys, a city which was once swarming with raiders itself can redeem itself under North Penn control and with help of the Amish and Penn Dutch it can become a potential site for new business. While in the reeducation camps they will learn (or re-learn) the basics of society, laws, and ethics. They will also receive job training and schooling if possible, and religious intervention for those who are deemed "totally f****d". So out of a state that might have 15,000 raiders left they have already redeemed around 500 and counting. Virginia used similar methods but more brutal ones. Arstarpool 03:48, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
Nevermind it will be in Clarion. Arstarpool 04:23, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Ah seems someone has been looking at my facebook page. St. Mar's is occupied by a joint force from Oil City & State College so anything done there will have to be done with the consent of State College. Also North Pennsylvania (If that name sticks & if it is graduated) will be a much weaker state then your original proposal so it will be cheaper and easier to kill the raiders, as sad as that is to say. --GOPZACK 15:44, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Weaker it will be, but not as much as you think. There is still oil, minerals, and wood mills and industry and oil refineries, all in other cities.
Other Objections[]
Before I make the main page long with peoples objections I would like you to post your objections here. Please do not make it mega long just list what you want changed and I will most likely change it. Arstarpool 20:17, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
I still think London would have gotten to Norfolk county first now that most of Eris was destroyed or abandoned. They wouldn't have the resources to annex that area. --GOPZACK 20:29, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
Is that it? Really, is that it? There's no more objections? Arstarpool 22:28, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
Ok... heres a few more
- Why would they offer annexation to Ithaca ind Binghamton? That makes no sense at all
- The Line "Pennsylvania also contacted the Commonwealth of Kentucky via Virginia in 2002. The two nations had a lot in common, as both had retained their statehood names and had both been spared attacks on important locations." is first of all incorrect it implies Erie was spared an attack and secondly is a bitter shot at the survival of Fort Knox
- Line "In 2007, it was a founding member of the United Communities along with Toledo and London-Ontario. St Marys was chosen as a capital, but eventually it was decided that Niagara Falls would be the perfect capital since it is a Canadian-American city and would not favor Canadians or Americans." is flawed because the Untied Communities is not canon yet and why would they consider a destroyed town that was once a raider hub as the capital?
- What kind of planes does North Pennsylvania fly? Do they have propellers or jet engines? Where/how do they refine the jet fuel?
- Who is buying the cars they are making?
- Also the most liberal areas of North Pennsylvania were destroyed when Erie was attack so the GOP would have more of a presence.
- Finally you do realize that you have to wait a bit before graduating it after asking "Any objections"? Also you have to address these objections, don't you know? --GOPZACK 22:41, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
That's it for now. --GOPZACK 22:39, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, let me answer the questions:
1. Deleted
2. Deleted.
3. Changed to make more sense.
4. Whatever was left over in airports that wasn't lost to EMP's. Those that could be repaired were repaired with help from Toledo and once the Wesleyville industry was opened back up there were even more planes repaired. There are also two oil refineries in the nation plus lots of gasoline so I guess making jet fuel wouldn't be impossible.
6. That's a non-issue. You know how things were back then with everyone voting back then for Reagan?
7. I do know that.
8. Norfolk County, probably the largest issue, well this was written in during the first drafts of the article and London came a bit after. If London had wanted it, they should have come before Pennsylvania and taken it when QSS and QAA is in the way. Pennsylvania cooperated with Toledo a lot early on and they did a check on Norfolk and it wasn't doing so well. While London was repairing the area around Aylmer, Norfolk became depopulated when its citizens decided to move to London territory, further worsening the conditions in the area. Eventually the citizens of Norfolk were offered a referendum to join either Toledo, Penn, or remain independent and they chose Pennsylvania due to the proximity and that Pennsylvania was more rural and had a wider food base they chose Pennsylvania, unlike Toledo and London, which had extreme food shortages (it says it right in the article). While I admit that this annexation occurred shortly after London expanded remember that the London article is not yet filled in, it makes no mention of claiming or controlling Norfolk.
Guys tell me if there are any more problems because I would like this article to be pretty plausible when I ask to get it graduated. Arstarpool 23:11, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
You didn't answer the point about cars.
...the part about Norfolk in the article makes no sense - it is contradictory. Given those choices, they'd have joined London before this state.
It would be more likely to have propeller planes in the region survive. And it makes it sound better, given the unknowns with being able to make jet fuel or not.
Lordganon 00:24, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, the cars are mainly bought with Toledo who helps make the cars with their manufacturing of glass.
Read it now. Fixed. Guys I am going to play the QSS and QAA card and if London-Ontario wants to start a border dispute we can take it to the brass. Norfolk has pretty much been in this article since it was created.
Okay, propeller planes are cool. Arstarpool 00:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
Guys I don't want to sound repetetive but I am basically going to keep on asking about objections until all the major and moderate ones are answered. So any other objections? Arstarpool 00:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
The QSS & QAA card? You do realize that London is canon and North Pennsylvania never has? London has precedent right now. Besides that its simply not possible with Erie for the most part out of the picture. --GOPZACK 00:52, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
North Pennsylvania came first. You stated on the California-Sierra dispute that its whatever article was made first has precedent and now you are stating its the canon that comes first? This whole time London should not have been graduated if that is the case. Arstarpool 01:15, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
Somehow you have overlooked the first sentence of this the entire time:
"By a narrow margin, Norfolk County became a Pennsylvanian protectorate, but they promised to return control to Canada if they ever came into contact with them. They rejected joining London-Ontario since the state was focusing on repairing its own lands. They later came into direct contact with of London-Ontario after Norfolk-Ontario requested to open trade relations. London accepted. This was a major event in Pennsylvania since they could now use Norfolk County, Ontario as an international trade hub across Lake Erie."
Zack, its a protectorate! It is not fully part of the nation, but receives aid from Penn and such. If they want to pursue trade relations with London they can do so, but they are part of the North Pennsylvania article. They don't need Erie, they just need access to Lake Erie in general. Even then as a protectorate they don't need 24/7/365 access to the rest of Pennsylvania. Arstarpool 01:15, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
- When the vote (not an "ultimatum") gives only a 40% plurality, there should at least be another vote. Personally, I don't think that a struggling American state government, less than seven years after major disaster, would be seeking to expand into Canada. It is too ambitious of a project. If anything they would be treking further into the interior of Pennsylvania itself to find resources. especially after the devesatating winter of 1986. SouthWriter 04:17, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
- I reached my breaking point. You guys are right, its implausible, but I have decided to let Norfolk, ON pursue its own independent destiny apart from London and North Penn. However Pennsylvania's eyes are not off of Ontario, believe me, if Superior could do it I'm sure that Pennsylvania could do it albeit on a much smaller scale and later on. Arstarpool 04:24, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Guys, I have answered all of the questions. Norfolk will be independent, and I think the article is ready to be asked for graduation, so if you have any remaining non-minor objections please speak now. I don't want to do what I did with California where I graduated it with objections. Furthermore, I do not want to graduate the article. I want it to be done by somebody else. So are there any more objections? Arstarpool 04:36, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, Alex, you have done well. I see that this state is indeed an expansionist state patterned somewhat after Superior. You are right, it is as plausible for a Pennsylvanian state to seek to do this as a Michiganite one. In fact, given the milder weather in Pennsylvania, I'd say even more so. But just like with the parts of Superior that are in Canada, there will be those that object. In this case, Norfolk county has the advantage of larger survivor city-states in the immediate area. When I get done with this note, I will personally graduate the article. However, I think it should be changed back to West Pennsylvania - that's more accurate. Either way, though, it will be canon. --SouthWriter 15:41, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
On the same note as what South said, that's really not a plurality at all - maybe make it have two options, one for joining with an American survivor state - Toledo or North Penn - and the one for independence? That way one can have more than 50% (aim for 66% or so).
But sounds much better with it going its own.
Lordganon 15:02, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
Erie[]
Why would the target be the airport? Erie would have been targeted in the first place because of the steel mills. North Pennsylvania would not have access to those mills today. Mitro 15:58, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
I just graduated the article, but I can see your point. Arstarpool had done so much to take away the objections that I might have jumped the gun. How about it, Arstar, are there other steel mills that might be used once the resources become available? Or need we assume a near miss (I read somewhere that the accuracy was plus or minus 5 km with ICBM's). SouthWriter 16:10, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
Well I assumed the destruction of the city when I was forced to accept that Erie would be nuked, so I decided to "re-settle" some of the nearby boroughs and stuff. The steel mills are gone. Rather than focus on that one little thing, I have decided to search deep in the internet for any other good parts of the economy. I found the Joy Mining Company that could easily be converted into steel mills Please, are there any other objections? I really want to get this show on the road. ~Arstar
With Erie be wiped out, that would destroy the steel industry in NW PA. I don't think it would be very big. My nation has only recently begun producing steel and iron, with MAJOR overhaul, and conversion, but barely produces enough for use within the nation. Also, where do the iron and coal reserves come from? As far as I know those resources came from eastern PA. Again, Susquehanna has large coal and iron deposits, so that is plausible, but were does your coal and iron come from?
I could see salvaging steel from destroyed or abandoned areas, but producing their own without the resources? I am currently living in Erie, and seeing the nukes map, could see NP rebuilding the eastern half of the city.
Thing is, there is more steel plants in the area than just in Erie. Not near as large, but there nevertheless.
Coal? North Penn has coal mines. Can also import from Stare College easy enough. Superior would also hold some, though probably not for export.
Iron? Steel production is going to be low for the first while anyway - local stocks would be good for that. Then you have State College, and then Superior and Sudbury. Even if it has to be shipped overland for part of the trip, water access is a big bonus here - Superior territory has a lot of things like iron ore.
There's a reason why they make a lot of steel and such things here, and that's it.
Lordganon (talk) 11:24, February 9, 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I found the stuff, and stand corrected! Thank you! Daeseunglim (talk)
The Map[]
The map has to be changed to eliminate the areas in green that are not canon and clear the future expansion areas in the lighter shades. --GOPZACK 22:10, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
I removed the map because when it comes to graduating the article you are going to whine on how the map isn't the way you want it and you don't like the "light" colors or something. And by the way, the green is Reading, PA, a city that is canon through the Pennsylvania State article. Arstarpool 02:00, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Reading may be canon but the boarders are not. --GOPZACK 02:05, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Just show the present boundaries for "North Pennsylvania," Arstar, your article doesn't have to cover the rest of the state. Yes, the government there would like to have the whole state (to quote "for some odd reason"), but the reality of it is that that's not going to happen. If anything, the states will unite under the provisional government set up by the former governor of the pre-doomsday state. The infightings for new states is a little ridiculous, in my humble opinion any way. SouthWriter 02:46, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
Military[]
The article says, "The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's military is split up into three divisions: Army, Navy, and Air Force." First the name of the nation is wrong, second it says below, "Unfortunately, there were no military bases in the area meaning they have no military". The two lines are contradictory and if they do indeed have "no military" the amnesty policy for raiders makes a bit more sense. I would also think they would have at the very least a small militia with weapons from gun shops or police armories. --GOPZACK 03:41, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
By having no military I meant to say "they have no true military" in the sense of a military on par with a proper nation state like, for example, the Canadian military. Their military would probably be around 8,000 with 10,000 in reserve or something. Arstarpool 04:16, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I signed your response Alex, using the history. I guess we all sometimes forget to sign our notes, huh?
- Anyway, I see you changed the text to reflect Zack's concern. It's looking like the state is about ready for "graduation" (again). How about it, Mitro? SouthWriter 15:54, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Reunification[]
While I'm here, though, I thought it might be time to discuss a reunification of the great state of Pennsylvania. You have been on a campaign to do this in Florida, and have backed Brian's plan in Texas. How about it? The provisional government at State College did harbor the surviving state government, which makes "North Pennsylvania" somewhat of a renegade nation. What are the chances? Hmm ... SouthWriter 15:54, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I have had my own problems with the plausibility of the current revision of State College, namely the fact he doubled the size of the state recently in what appears to be a "choke-off" to North Penn's expansion so right now on behalf of North Penn in my mind I refuse to let a reunification happen, yet, that is. Remember there is the Reading State Government as well and there was a St. Marys government until Zack destroyed it, literally killed off the "raider" leadership of the town and annexed the territory. Just in case I am going to make a page Pennsylvania Commonwealth to talk about any unification possibilities. But on behalf of Reading and North Penn I will state that any unification is way down the road, at best 2013, too many of the lands in between the nations are lawless and Zack is sticking with his twice-as-original map of State College.
- Just having the governor doesn't make them the heirs to the throne. If the Queen died and all her closest relatives some distant King of Prussia couldn't show up and take the throne, so if most of the major cities and the rest of the leader ship just the governor and a small bunch arriving doesn't necessarily make them a true successor state. Arstarpool 21:51, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
Arstar, you need to understand a few things. St. Marys was not destroyed but liberated from gangs well before North Penn or whatever you were calling it at the time, came along. State College was not doubled to choke you off. North Penn could not plausibly expand into those same areas. South is right North Penn is a renegade nation. If it were to unite with Reading and not include State College in that union (Which is nevertheless implausible) it would be a illegitimate government.
If Reading is written by you to include poor relations with State College with great relations with North Penn or any unification plans that leave out State College. We will all know that it is a tactical move on your part and not a legitimate or plausible move for this timeline.
Stop claiming that I hate this article, I graduated the bloody thing a few hours ago. I even wrote on your talk page commending your perseverance and sticking with the article through all of these rewrites and objections. --GOPZACK 00:20, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you Zack, for bringing the discussion back to plausibility. Your article about State College would be a bit more accurate if we could somehow change the discussion to the government there. Each state is still by law 'sovereign' in its own affairs. The legitimate governments of the states have a right to the territory that is theirs. Ever since you created the "State College" article I've seen it as the legitimate government based on its proximity to the state capital (not to mention its centrality). In changing the official name to "The Provisional Government of Pennsylvania at State College" we reflected the plausible history of at least part of the government getting out alive. By having a continuing government in place, all other claimants are by definition "renegade."
- With that in mind, the provisional government at Reading seems to be a factor that Brian expected to develop, and which Mitro encouraged. Arstar's article came into the picture without considering what had already been written. Zack's "Pennsylvania" became the measuring stick, and he readily incorporated a friendly relationship with the survivors in NW PA to defeat the warlords at St. Marys. No further mention has been made of Reading until the maps began to appear. Zack then evenly divided the state between the three competing "nations" and such a map was accepted for months. Arstar's recent paranoia seems irrational given the effort the community has put into reviewing his article. For Arstar to lash out at co-editors is a sad thing. I hope that these disagreements can be set aside to bring about a better wiki. --SouthWriter 15:27, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- The analogy of the demise of the royal family is flawed. Actually, the laws of succession in England might indeed go to some German aristocrat in such a case. The royal families of Europe are all related, so distant cousins are a possibility in such cases. (SouthWriter)
- Uh, I made the map that divided the area into three areas. Are you referring to the one that had two?
- If you feel I lashed out at you guys I'm sorry. If you feel I lashed out at Zack then I stand by what I did. Zack has frickin' screwed me over on multiple occasions, some of which he wasn't using his head ( such as the time he put South Florida as under review because he forgot he was caretaker and he decided to make me do all the needed changes) and I will never forgive him for that. Me and him are just to different to ever successfully work on a project together and every time I've tried to work on him with something either I end up doing almost all the work (Like on New Rome), or in South Florida where I wrote
mostmore than half of the article and then makes it seem like you and him did all the work, or in the case of North Florida where I am the one who contacted Perryz/Sunkist on adopting the article (admittedly with bad intentions) when he refused to acknowledge that me or Perryz/Sunkist worked on it at all. Just because he graduated my "bloody" article doesn't make anything better. I am mad at him and now with a big fuss over Superior. I think its better I leave now. Arstar [talk] 22:13, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
Anyways me and Zack discussed the unification a while back as I recall and he agreed that it would be way down the road as well. Arstar [talk] 01:01, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
A reunited Pennsylvania would be a good idea for the future. North Pennsylvania, State Collage, Gettysburg, and Reading could unite to form a new Pennsylvania Republic. It's to bad that rebuilding Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Pittsburgh won't happen any time soon due to the radiation which will take decades or centuries to die down. 24.147.1.197 15:46, December 8, 2013 (UTC)Jacob Chesley
Doubtful that it would ever happen, JC. Register! Lordganon (talk) 15:53, December 8, 2013 (UTC)
The St. Mary's Territories[]
Do you guys think it would make sense to have the former St. Mary's territories be a jointly-controlled area? Arstar [talk] 03:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
- The control did come through a joint effort, so that's a possibility. However, if the warlords and gangs were eradicated, then that would leave it up to the citizens of that city-state. Ideally, the whole state will come together (see above). If there is joint control, then I'd say that is an indication of eventual reunification. That's my two cents on that. --SouthWriter 04:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
So your saying that the jointly-controlled area would be the first steps towards reunification? I should consult with Zack about this, but I don't feel like talking to him at all right now. Arstar [talk] 04:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
Pennsylvania Dutch[]
It seems that you are using the term "Pennsylvania Dutch" as a unified group like the Amish. The term is much broader, referring to a large ethnic group of north European emigrants. The term is sometime used exclusively of the religious orders - the Minonnites and the Amish - which I believe is the way you were using it when you spoke of the lifestyles not changing much. Of course, the Minnonites are far less primitive in their ways than are the Amish, so they would have adjust a bit more. To use "Pennsylvania Dutch" and Amish together, though, is redundant. SouthWriter 14:57, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
Revamping[]
Hey guys, I need help revamping this article. I'm finding that there's a lot of redundant sentences or I'm not putting the right info in certain places. If somebody could fix the grammar issues and word it better I would be so happy :) Arstar 02:18, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, that was tonight's project. I hope I didn't make any drastic changes in my enthusiasm. :-) SouthWriter 04:28, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I accidentally deleted your changes to the economy section but I'll fix that myself. Arstar 04:53, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Media, sports[]
I'll be happy to help. What are your guidelines concerning media and sports for North Pa.? BrianD 04:16, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Sports, include the Clarion University sports teams, thats my only guideline. Media, at most two television stations, at most 8-10 radio stations and as many newspapers as you would like to put. I'm trying to keep this nation basic, but in no ways primitive. Arstar 04:50, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Regarding Clarion: which conference would they play in TTL? Who do they compete against?BrianD 05:16, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Arstar, would you be open to putting under sports (with permission from SC's author and Godphrey) that all the PA survivor states are planning on reforming the PIAA for high school and college level sports, and have a goal of reforming a state wide sports conference? It would be a unique way for the nations to begin integrating low level functions to provide greater stability and prosperity to Pennsylvania. Daeseunglim (talk)
Education, Culture[]
I'm "unlocking" these two sections to the public like what I did with Sports and Media. I will find a way to reward whoever does these sections. Arstar 22:31, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
I am currently attending Gannon University in Erie. Most of the professors live well away from the city, and that is how it has always been. Many students would have died, and the campus would be radioactive and heavily damaged, but would it be possible for the university to restart in Union City or something? Obviously it would be much smaller, but it was just a thought. Also, about 1/4 of the students commute from outside of Erie, and many go home on the weekend. There are a lot of alumni who still live in the area. Daeseunglim (talk)
Don't see why not, especially if the administration is still alive. Would be very helpful for the starting of the state as well, including industries. Lordganon (talk) 14:20, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
Can I add it? Daeseunglim (talk)
Sure. Lordganon (talk) 23:23, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
Haha[]
I love this. I live in Titusville, pa.
Erie[]
Were the remnants of Erie incorporated into Northwest Harborcreek, and where exactly was Erie struck because that would affect the survival of the downtown area. A picture on the page is of downtown Erie, and it is labled as Northeest Harborcreek. If the bomb struck the airport it would have survived, but if it hit the factories, it would not have. Daeseunglim (talk)
i propose merging article with survivor states like on the main page on the 1983 dd article for new unified pennsylvania HOOVERCollectionfan (talk) 17:04, March 25, 2017 (UTC)
No. Pennsylvania is headed, long term for potential reunification more likely under a supranational organization, similar to the Nordic Union, however full reunification is unlikely. While the maps of each nation show they border and have large territories, in reality the level of control varies heavily with some areas being more or less claimed rather than outright controlled.
Each nation is gravitating in somewhat different directions in geopolitics, which will also limit their willingness to reunify.
Daeseunglim (talk) 17:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Proposal for North Pennsylvania Jul. 7 2021[]
North Pennsylvania (1983: Doomsday)
althistory.fandom.com
The Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania (Pennsylvania Dutch (German): Noord Pennsilfaani) is an American successor state. Aside from Pennsylvanian lands, it also controls Chautauqua and Cattaraugus Counties, New York, as well as Ashtabula County, Ohio. To the north, it borders London and Norfolk-Haldimand across Lake Erie, to the north-east it borders the Republic of New York, to the south-east State College. Close by are Virginia to the south, Toledo to the west, and Kentucky to the south-west.
History
See main article: History of North Pennsylvania
Government
The government of North Pennsylvania is very similar that of pre-Doomsday Pennsylvania state government. In fact, it only holds de facto independence, as it yet to declare independence from the United States and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It is divided into an executive office, a judicial office, and a legislative office.
Executive
The governor heads the executive branch and has considerable control over government budgeting, the power of appointment of many officials, and a considerable role in legislation. The governor holds other roles, such as that of commander-in-chief of the Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania National Guard, the governor has absolute power to commute or pardon a criminal sentence. All governors run for a four-year term. The governor is directly elected and has considerable practical powers, though this may be moderated by the state legislature and in some cases by other elected executive officials.
Governors can veto state bills. In some cases the legislature can override a gubernatorial veto by a two-thirds vote. The governor also gives an bi-annual State of the State address in order to satisfy a constitutional stipulation that a governor must report annually on the state or condition. The governor also performs ceremonial roles, such as greeting dignitaries, conferring state decorations, issuing symbolic proclamations or attending the state fair. The governor’s official residence-of-work is the Venango House.but starting March 13th, 2011 the governor was expected to move to the proposed Federal District of Eriesburg constructed on the coasts of Lake Erie near North East. However, disagreements over funding and the safety of the chosen site have indefinitely postponed the move.
The current governor is Oliver Lobaugh, 5th Governor of the Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania and the 45th Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. North Pennsylvania honors the governors of the defunct Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as its prior government and refers to its governor as the "Honorary Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and Governor of the Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania".
The Lieutenant Governor presides over the Senate. In the case the Governor dies or becomes unable to hold office he is to finish the Governor's term. Should both the Lieutenant Governor and Governor die the Supreme Court creates an interim government made up of members of the state legislature and/or experienced military leaders.
The current Lieutenant Governor is Mary Veon, fourth Lieutenant Governor of North Pennsylvania. Unlike the Governor Lieutenant Governors do not have an Honorary Commonwealth title.
Legislative
The legislature of North Pennsylvania is the General Assembly, whose two houses are the Senate and the House of Representatives. The, the Senate has 50 members, elected from each county in proportion to its population. The House of Representatives has 61 members, elected from single-member districts. The North Pennsylvania general elections are held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November in every even-numbered year. A vacancy for a seat must be filled by special election. The presiding officer of the respective house sets the date for such elections. Senators must be at least 25 years old and Representatives at least 21 years old. They must also be citizens and inhabitants of the state for a minimum of four years, living in their respective districts for at least one year. Individuals who have been convicted of various felonies, including embezzlement, bribery, rape, murder, and perjury, are ineligible for election.
Legislative districts are drawn every five years following the N.P Census. Districts are drawn by a five-member commission, of which four members are the majority and minority leaders of both houses. The fifth member is appointed by the other four and may not be an elected or appointed official. If the leadership cannot decide upon a fifth member, the State Supreme Court may appoint the chairperson.
Judicial
The North Pennsylvania Supreme Court is modeled after its pre-Doomsday counterpart. It consists of seven justices each elected to 10 year terms. The justice with the longest continuous service on the Supreme Court automatically becomes Chief Justice. Justices must step down from the Supreme Court when they reach the age of 70, although they may continue to serve part-time as "senior justices" on panels of the Commonwealth's lower appellate courts until they reach the age of 78, the age of mandatory retirement.
Judicial candidates are prohibited from expressing their views on disputed legal or political issues. Elections for a new justice occur when one resigns, dies, or is impeached and justice candidates may run as nominees of their political party. If they win their elections, they are given a ten year term. After the ten year term expires, a statewide YES/NO vote for retention is conducted without competition or party identification. If the judge is retained, he or she serves for an additional 10-year term. If the judge is not retained, the governor, subject to the approval of the State Senate, appoints a temporary replacement until a special election can be held.
The Venango House Add a photo to this gallery
Political Parties
The Democratic Party has existed since the fight between Andrew Jackson and John Q. Adams over the results of the 1828 American Presidential Election, born from the Jacksonian Democrats. During the 1990-1999 Rule, the Government became increasingly Liberal, especially on the stances of abortion and redistribution of wealth. Today, the Democrat Party's members are primarily in the northern half of North Penn,. Crawford County, the largest, is a swing district,while everything south and east of Crawford County has gone under solid Republican control. Considered to be heavily liberal, the newly founded social-democratic Lake Party has taken many Democratic voters into its numbers.
The Republican Party has existed since Anti-Slavery and Abolitionist groups in the north, alienated by the Whig party’s failure to take a position on slavery, created it in 1854. Its ideology is considered by some to be heavily conservative, though not to the extent of the minor Pennsylvania Dutch Party.
The Socialist Party is not a relatively new creation, being based off of earlier Socialist parties of the last century. Many former Democrats, upset with the moderate positions in the Democrat Party’s platform, developed the Socialist Party, which was popular among many refugees who had since become citizens. Following American Socialism as its ideology, the Socialist Party is often decried as being no different in its proposed policies than the former Soviet Union, though this has not prevented their rise. The Party is seeing a dangerous rise in local politics, and they are fighting with the Democrats over control of western Erie county.
The Lake Party is a relatively new creation loosely based off of pre-Doomsday Ecological movements such as Greenpeace, the Pro-Choice Movements and beliefs of social democracy. Formed in 2007 by John Evans and other politicians in Crawford and Erie, the party has shown to be a thorn in the Democrats side.
The Party of the Holy and Simple Life, also known as the Amish Party, is a party that was formed following the 2012 Destruction of the Kinzua Dam that left over half of the nation without electricity. The Amish and Mennonites in the region preached that in order to truly survive in such a harsh world, they must work the land and lead simpler lives. The party is based on Christian Communalism and Conservative social ideologies. The party briefly gained a considerable sway in the legislative branch as well as in the Executive branch during their 2012-2014 rule before being ousted from power by popular opinion.
Minor Political Parties
These are parties which have less representation in the Senate or House of Representatives.
Regions
North Penn exerts its control most in north-west Pennsylvania. However, it has acquired Cattaraugus and Chautauqua Counties, New York, and after Project Road to Ohio, North-east Ohio as well. The Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania is divided into several regions, which until the 2011 constitutional revision were designated as “states,” districts or counties. After 2011, all the first-level subdivisions were named as counties.
dth=10%|Population
County name
County seat
Date organized
Pre-Doomsday territory covered
Population (2012 census)
Senators
Notes
Cattaraugus
Little Valley
2011
Cattaraugus County, New York and adjacent Allegany County
50,238
4
Annexed 2004, erected as county 2011
Chautauqua
Westfield
2011
Chautauqua County and adjacent Erie County, New York
71,198
5
Annexed 2000; erected as county 2011
Clarion
Clarion
1984
Clarion County and adjacent Jefferson County, Pa.
28,330
2
Founding member
Crawford
Meadville
1984
Crawford County
195,411
14
Formerly “Pennstate”, its name before joining North Penn. Founding member
Erie
Edinboro
2005
Erie County
74,226
5
Split from Pennstate
Forest
Tionesta
1990
Forest County and adjacent Elk County
3,381
0 (combined with Venango)
Unorganized prior to 1990, primitive economy. Many functions handled by Venango County
Mercer
Mercer
2007
Mercer and Lawrence Counties, Pa.
52,122
4
Northeast (provisional county, final name to be determined)
Temporarily North East, pending decision on new capital
2011
Northern portion of North East Township, Erie County, Pa.
1,207
0 (combined with Erie)
Most functions handled by Erie County.
Ohio
Jefferson
2011
Ashtabula County and northern Trumbull County, Ohio
62,485
4
Annexed 2008-2010 in Project “Road to Ohio.” County erected 2011.
Venango
Franklin
1984
Venango County
55,000 (too small, if Oil City has absorbed 22,000 refugees) Probably at least 108,573
8
Founding member
Warren-McKean
Warren and Smethport
2011
Warren and McKean Counties plus adjacent Elk County (St. Mary’s area).
49,972
4
Separated from Pennstate 2011. Population rapidly growing, separation of McKean County expected by 2022.
Geography
Demographics
At the 2012 census, North Pennsylvania’s population had grown to 643,841, from an estimated 345,000 in 2001. Much population growth was caused by resettlement of refugees from Ohio and western Pennsylvania in the counties least affected by blast and fallout and which had industrial bases for employment: southern Crawford, Venango, Warren-McKean and Clarion.
W|}
Geography
Demographics
Since after Doomsday, Pennsylvania German, a dying language before Doomsday, has slowly been on the rise. This is because with less English influence the rural communities have taught more of the young to speak this Pennsylvanian dialect of the German language. A 2008 census showed that over 9% of the nation spoke Pennsylvania Dutch, leading it to become a co-official language the year after. As the Amish tend to have large families and prosperous farms to feed them, they are rapidly becoming a larger portion of the North Penn population.
With the Amish being a major presence in the area, the surrounding rural communities benefited off of their way of living, especially after Doomsday. The Old Order Amish, however, have recently been competing with the New Order, with many of those defecting to the more liberal New Order Amish.
Due to the destruction of many records after Doomsday it is difficult to ascertain groups' ethnic ancestry but surviving records and family accounts state that roughly 40% of the country is of German descent. The English and Scotch-Irish come in at roughly 15% while most of the rest is descended from Eastern European and Italian immigrants around the turn of the 19th Century and a 2% Native American population. African Americans come in at a handful of .5% due to the African-American community usually based out of large cities, leaving a handful of college students and the occasional black farmer. Due to racial tensions in the southern parts of North Penn many have relocated to Warren and Meadville which are by far the most cosmopolitan out of the other cities.
Although cities such as Meadville, Oil City and Warren have seen drastic increases in population over the last 10 years, the Commonwealth remains indisputably a rural nation pocketed with small towns. Forest County, Cattaraugus County and the Erie city area, which is in the process of restoration, are preparing to take a larger amount of refugees and economic migrants.
Economy
While the vast majority of its lands is used for agriculture, North Penn has a relatively large industrial sector thanks to many WWII-era factories left in near-pristine condition in the area. In the industrial sector, it produces plastic, mining equipment, oil and gas equipment , hardware and nails. The Electralloy steel plant in Oil City is capable of melting down and re-using iron and steel scrap, and the Sharon steel works, shut down before Doomsday, has been refurbished as well. Minor steel facilities are at Warren and Jamestown. If North Penn can move into Mahoning County, Ohio, plans are in progress to either restore the Youngstown/Warren steel mills and iron foundries or relocate equipment into North Penn.
Much of the plastic produced in North America is made at Erie Plastics in Corry, supplemented by Conair in Franklin. Core automobile parts, bicycles, and railways are produced in Warren and Jamestown. Tires, guns, textiles, explosives and clothes are produced in Meadville, which also has an extensive machine tool and engineering base. Joy Mining Machinery provides everything from iron-grade pickaxes to giant mining machines for the extensive mining operations that occur in the region, and exports equipment throughout eastern North America.
Agriculture is one of North Penn's largest fields of employment. Local farmers and ranches grow and raise cows, corn, milk, layingchickens, and grapes. Welch Grapes grown in North East Township are considered the best of North America. That being said, most of North Pennsylvania is just emerging from a subsistence agricultural economy although they do provide much of Niagara's food. The best large areas of arable land are in southern and eastern Crawford County and in Chautauqua County. Although northeast Ohio was a very productive agricultural area, fallout from the Cleveland and Youngstown strikes and the ravages of desperate refugees have delayed large-scale farming there.
One of the largest factors of the economy is the abundance of natural gas and oil. While it is nowhere near the oil boom of old, hundreds of oil and gas fields still exist all over North Penn, making the Commonwealth energy sufficient and local companies such as Quaker State in Emlenton, North Penn Pennzoil and Wolf’s Head near Oil City, Amalie in Franklin, United in Warren and Kendall in Bradford, refine a vast amount of the Great Lakes and Eastern Seaboard's oil supply. Several smaller companies based out of Warren hold a small stake on individual gas fields as well. Oils and gas refined products include fuel oil, diesel, gasoline, naphtha, and kerosene, as well as asphalt and petroleum jelly. The North Penn Department of Environmental Protection enforces strict production and drilling limits to avoid over-exploitation and failure of fields.
Minerals are somewhat abundant as well, such as salt, coal, phosphate, sandstone, clay, and limestone. There are small amounts of iron but almost all iron and alloying materials are reclaimed from scrap metal. Copper is scarce and must be imported from Superior or Canada. Gravel and silt are found off the coast of Lake Erie and in the Allegheny River, as well, although due to radiation concerns fears the lakebed has not been mined yet. Most mining operations use Joy's mining equipment. Glass making is found all over North Penn, including large factories at Brockway, Oil City, New Castle, Lake City, and a large auto glass factory at Meadville. Several specialty glass blowers in Erie are being revived as well.
The economy was completely government controlled until 1990 when the first private enterprises, mainly light industry reemerged. Until 2000, most other sectors were at least partially overseen by the government to control spending and to make sure the right industries had the right manpower. When the United Communities was founded in 2007, all but several farms, electricity, and ammunition and firearms manufacturing were privatized. Meadville, North Penn’s largest town, is the capital of commerce in the region as it is home to the largest number of specialty machine shops in the U.S. pre-Doomsday, and also has multiple producers of textiles, munitions, paper, and most processed necessities. Oil City and Franklin contain heavy machinery producers untouched by Doomsday. Warren, although less populated than the other cities was once the capital of heavy manufacturing in the area up until the summer of 2012 when extensive flooding caused many businesses, as well as its small men’s clothing manufacturer.to move to Jamestown in Pennsylvanian New York. Bradford is famous for its Zippo lighter company as well as oil field equipment.
Media
The North Pennsylvania government runs two television stations, NPTV 2 in Warren and NPTV 4 in Franklin and Mercer. Both broadcast from 7 to Midnight weekdays, from 5 p.m to 1 AM on Saturdays and from 6 to 11 p.m. on Sundays. The United Communities-sponsored Central Community Television also broadcasts daily. Programming includes news, sports and locally produced public affairs, political and entertainment programming, as well as pre-Doomsday movies and television shows and post-DD programming from Superior, Canada, Vermont and the Celtic Alliance's RTE network. The government-controlled North Pennsylvania Radio (NPR) has affiliates in Warren, Franklin and Oil City, with re-transmitters in Little Valley, Meadville, Tionesta, Forest, Bradford and Westfield. Programming includes news, politics, public affairs, classical music, and entertainment produced by North Pennsylvania Radio as well as other networks throughout the United Communities; Vermont Radio; the CBC; Superior's NBN; and the RTE. NPR stations broadcast 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Amateur HAM radio has survived to large extent, and channels are a popular way for young people to communicate, called "chat rooms".
A privately-owned station in Franklin, WNPJ 99.3, broadcasts post-Doomsday pop and rock music began broadcasting in September 2010. Other privately owned stations in Warren,Meadville and Oil City broadcast local news and pre-Doomsday pop, rock, urban and country music most notably WARC 90.3 FM, WMED 97.5 FM and WOYL98.5 FM. Recently a group of reverseengineers in Meadville successfully rediscovered how to make vinyl records so the music industry has begun to blossom. Among popular regional artists is Trent Reznor who popularized the energetic-ambient rock genre and has sold over 5000 copies and also attended Allegheny College.
The Warren Times Observer newspaper publishes six days a week (excluding Mondays) and is the nation's de facto paper of record. The Franklin News-Herald publishes Tuesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday and is considered a reliable source for United Communities-related news and Commonwealth government news. The Oil City Derrick; Meadville Tribune; Bradford Era and the Little Valley Express publish once a week.
Transportation
Road and Rail
On Doomsday, most of the newer cars in North America were made obsolete by the EMP's. However, for those older cars that did not rely on electronics, gasoline is not a problem since North Penn is home to both abundant oil fields and five refineries with an expanded capacity of 50,000 bbl/day. In addition, there is an abundance of natural gas to be utilized as vehicles are converted to use that fuel. Since production of Jeeps began, the Pennsylvanian-native Quaker State company and the rehomed North Penn Pennzoil have seen a handsome increase in profits. Paved roads have also been repaired with gravel dredged from Lake Erie and limited amounts of asphalt from the refineries. The rail systems have been rebuilt with locomotives from purchased from London,Ontario. A priority North Penn government project is to restart the GE locomotive factory in Harborcreek, which will allow North Penn to export locomotives, hopefully by early 2022.
Jeeps
In 2004, one small vehicle helped revitalize an entire region's transportation. Obviously, not every single car was rendered useless on Doomsday. A handful survived, mostly were common cars and pickups with limited electronics. However, there was a man in Franklin who was in possession of multiple genuine, working WWII 1942 Jeeps* and had donated several of them to the local police following Doomsday. After the subject was brought up with two businessmen, one a Toledoan and the other a North Pennsylvanian on manufacturing the vehicle again, it quickly gained steam. There actually was a Jeep FJ manufacturing plant in Toledo, and all they needed to do was put it back into production. By using parts from dead vehicles and from purchases in Toledo, they successfully created a better-than-original version of a Jeep. Soon, they began manufacturing around six vehicles a month, an astounding rate for custom made machines in a factory with such limited resources. These two businessmen re-started one of the most successful military vehicle manufacturers of all time, using its original name, Willys-Overland. By 2009, when a rail link was established between North Penn and Toledo, bypassing Cleveland, production was split. Franklin in North Penn produces chassis, wheels and cabs, while Toledo focuses on the higher tech engine and drive train manufacture.
Today, the Jeep is the main form of transportation for the North Penn and Toledo armies, and since they can be produced quickly and require only the simplest parts they are cheap and reliable. The average Jeep used by the military is a canvas-door three-seater with a canvas roof used for transport. This is known as the Raider, because this Jeep is most commonly used for field missions in raider territory. There is a combat version of this vehicle depicted below. In recent years, the GM plant in Niagara Falls has joined the consortium and makes many Jeep components as well. The Willys-Overland company has begun production of pickup trucks, in cooperation with Niagara Falls, which are expected to be a major boost to the United Communities economy.
A Jeep Raider Add a photo to this gallery
AUTHORS NOTE: There actually is a personb in Franklin who possesses a collection of WWII-era old Jeeps.
Airports
Chess Lamberton Field at Franklin, which was a commercial airport pre-Doomsday,is the nation's main airport at this time, although flights mainly go in and out of United Communities member states mainly for governmental reasons or for the upper-class. Unfortunately, the missile strike on Erie was almost on top of Port Erie International Airport, which cannot be salvaged. There are, however, multiple local airports in other counties as well. Although both oil and oil refineries are available, almost all of the Commonwealth's planes, and the world’s planes in general, are propeller-driven using gasoline, because of the need to devote kerosene production to lighting, heating and petrochemical uses.
Maritime
After Doomsday, stress on Lake Erie’s ecosystems was reduced because incoming pollution and sewage from human activity were greatly reduced and commercial fishing came almost to a halt. This was countered initially by the massive amount of radiation that washed into the Great Lakes which contaminated the lakes and injured the native ecosystem. All but the central parts of the Lakes were hostile to large fish for five to ten years.
As the water cycle continued after Doomsday much of the radiological contamination subsided over time, allowing the remaining lake life to rebuild the food chain. The critically-low fish population, both due to radiation and over-hunting by desperate individual fishermen, spurred the North Pennsylvania Fish Commission in 1987 to ban commercial fishing and impose strict catch and zone limits on individual fishers with the intent that the aquatic population might rebound. By the early 2000s, sport and commercial fishing resumed on Lake Erie as the surviving fish adapted to the new environment One blessing was that the lamprey eel population, which had eliminated many fish species from 1955 to 1975, was particularly susceptible to radiation and completely died out.
Energy
Petroleum and natural gas
North Pennsylvania is quite an oil rich nation, with hundreds of oil fields, they are able to produce 40,000 barrels per day, making the country largely energy sufficient. With oil in abundance, it is the main source of heat and energy for the people, and those who own working cars do not have to worry on fuel shortages either since it is all locally based. As noted above, there are five oil refineries with a refining capacity of over 50,000 bbl/day. In 1987, gasoline distribution was consolidated by the Community Convention government into the Quaker State company, a century-old refiner, for maximum control. The UC has been urging its members to dismantle this type of monopoly and break-up of gasoline and fuel oil distribution is one of the hottest topics in the General Assembly.
In the early 2000’s a petroleum engineer managed to scrape up $500,000 for a wildcat gas well into the Marcellus Shale formation and managed to frack the well with his last $10,000. The well was a success, spurring development of a major natural gas formation that can supply most of the northeast U.S. North Penn’s oil and gas equipment manufacturers have been running three shifts (when raw materials are available) to support exploitation of the Marcellus Shale.
Electricity
Until 2012, the sole operating power station in North Pennsylvania was the Kinzua Dam outside of Warren. The third largest dam east of the Mississippi, and at a generating capacity of 400 megawatts, it generates power for 75% of North Penn..
Following the dam being critically damaged in 2012, it was extensively repaired following aid contributions and private donations, after the Amish-led Government failed to appropriate the necessary funds to repair it. At the same time, Penelec, the local nationalized electric utility, finally was able to source new generators and turbines from Canada to replace items in the Tionesta Dam and Piney Creek hydroelectric stations, which had spun out of control in the Doomsday chaos and were unrepairable. Nevertheless, North Penn’s electricity supply is inadequate, especially for heavy industry, and rationing and brownouts are common. Penelec is trying to source equipment and engineering to add hydroelectric capacity to the Shenango dam near Sharon, the Pymatuming Dam near Greenville, the French Creek dam near Waterford and the Clarion River Dam in Elk County, but the generating capacity of those facilities would be limited because those dams are low. Efforts to use North Penn’s ample coal reserves to generate electricity are hampered by inability to strip mine, environmental concerns and lack of equipment to build new power stations. Instead, North Penn is considering whether to harvest equipment from the huge, coal-fired plants in Indiana County or possibly to reopen one of them. However, Indiana County borders State College also and is closer to Altoona and other State College industrial centers, and State College is using access to those plants as negotiating leverage in the ongoing discussions about Pennsylvania reunification. Access to more electricity supply is a major diplomatic objective of North Penn, and it continually presses Niagara Falls to commit to supply and thus facilitate construction of high tension lines to North Penn.
Kinzua Dam
Culture
Oil City, the "capital of modern oil drilling" is a major cultural center point around the area. The resettlement of approximately 20,000 Ohio and Pennsylvania refugees in its vacant housing during 1984-1988 created an impetus for crafts, furniture design, theater, cabaret and jazz, musical performance and literature, as refugees tried to eke out a living by using their creative talents.
Warren has recently become a very active, bustling city once more as more and more residents move in from other areas, sometimes from State College or north-east Ohio.
Lifestyle
Since North Pennsylvania is largely rural,over fifty-percent of Pennsylvanians do not have access to most modern amenities and continue living the life of their ancestors.
Many rural North Pennsylvanians live a simple life inspired by the growing Mennonite and Amish communities, which did not employ modern technology pre-Doomsday and thus were well prepared to survive and flourish afterwards. Excess material possessions are often shunned by the Mennonites. However, after the Amish Schism the New Order Amish faction has risen to prominence, shunning many aspects of the simple life and choosing newer technology.
Education
Since the formation of the Community Convention one of the government's greatest concerns was providing even a basic education to the younger generation. Most public schools outside the immediate area of Franklin, Oil City, Warren, and Meadville were run independently and as a result many became abandoned, lawless, or strict, locked-down schools in which the students often were separated from their parents during the school year. The college towns managed to survive differently, as many of the students, especially in Edinboro had used their knowledge of their subjects to serve their community. If one was studying animal husbandry then they would be sent to try to salvage animals from abandoned farms. If one studied any form of medicine they would immediately become a makeshift doctor for the refugee masses outside Edinboro, Oil City and other towns. With the creation of the 1990 strict Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania government, or "Quaker Regime", the new government slowly took back control of the public schools, by which over half of which had been dissolved due to dropouts or students and families fleeing to the woods or farms in search of food. Those schools that remained were usually home to between one-half or one-fifth of normal pre-Doomsday classes. The government made education of everyone in the towns and cities mandatory from six to 14, with high school becoming optional but still paid by the state and college as was pre-Doomsday. With the 2000 Public Instruction Act, high schools became mandatory and anyone who had quit classes in the past decade was required to take night classes. Furthermore, the 2007 creation of the United Communities encouraged the Great Lakes region's schools to follow common principles and requirements and organized a common school accreditation authority.
Attendance in school is mandatory between the ages of six to eighteen, and from there can obtain a higher education in North Penn state universities at very low out-of-pocket cost. Still, a significant number of Amish and Mennonite children are home schooled (7%) due to the secular policies within the schools themselves. According to government laws the government can not control the ideologies of private schools unless in the case of wrongly-taught education, in which the government can strip control of the school. Despite this policy, the government occasionally funds private institutions, in the hope that increased competition for funds between public and private schools might, as a result, have both perform better in their education process. Many private schools are also religious schools, as these have complete independence from the oversight of the Great Lakes School Accreditation Authority.
Colleges
North Pennsylvania is home to a large number of both public and private colleges. Allegheny College is by far the most famous and has produced many famous musical, athletic, philosophical and legal individuals throughout the United States before 1983. Nowadays, it continues its liberal arts focus and sometimes is seen as a "party school" for the well-off who can afford its tuition. Edinboro State University in Edinboro is a center of education, and was the de facto county seat in Erie County before Reconstruction began. Clarion University, another state institution, emphasizes education courses and is home to the Golden Eagles. Its Venango Campus in Oil City stresses nursing and medical technology. Slippery Rock State University in Mercer County continues its emphasis on health, physical training and psychology, while the nearby Grove City College continues its conservative-libertarian orientation and attracts like-minded students from the entire United Communities. The University of Titusville (formerly the University of Pittsburgh at Titusville) is currently subsidized by the government to be brought up to academic standards of other colleges and has only recently been re-opened. Currently the University of Titusville's main academic focuses are "all things oil", reflecting the city of Titusville's history as the birthplace of the oil industry. The Bradford College, the former Bradford campus of the University of Pittsburgh, is functioning as a two-year institution. Gannon University in Erie almost miraculously escaped destruction and is one of the few remaining Catholic universities left in North America. It is known for its medical and engineering program, and has relocated to Northwest Harborcreek. It was one of the original founding universities, and was crucial in the reconstruction of North Pennsylvania. With a majority of faculty living a fair distance from Erie, they were able to aid in relief efforts after the nuclear strike on Erie. It is one of the smallest universities though due to it being private, but it has recently been supported by the Archdiocese of Altoona-Johnstown, and the Diocese of Meadville. Penn State’s Behrend Campus southeast of Erie also escaped much of the destruction, but most of its programs have been transferred to Edinboro to achieve economies of scale.
Crime and Law Enforcement
Crime in North Pennsylvania is taken very seriously. Since the creation of the Community Convention all of the counties operated their own police forces and would often severely beat or even kill those for committing crimes such as stealing from a communities' food or wood supply or robbing others. Since the 1990 Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania was created, however, most of the police forces voluntarily united to form the Northern Pennsylvania Commonwealth Police Force which numbered over 6,000 people and had more rights than even many previous police forces had. However, despite years of peace, crime has increased due to recent economic downturns and the Commonwealth’s policy to emphasize army expansion rather than expand police forces in step with population increases..
Military
See main article: Military of North Pennsylvania
The Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania Military relies heavily upon volunteers, who are often lured by programs which offer large incentives and benefits. Those who sign up are required to serve four years in the armed forces, after which they can be called at any time in the case that an emergency reserve must be formed. Women, however, are given exception from the draft, but are still allowed to voluntarily join at their behest. Unlike before Doomsday's American army, women are allowed full military rights, meaning they may fight on the front lines alongside men. The air force, however, discourages women from joining since it is often that women pass out in fighter jets from too much pressure from the G-forces and crash. Until recently, the military was no more than a rump force armed with Jeeps and sub-machine guns, until the rapid militarization that occurred after the end of the Saguenay War which is creating more and more units and service arms almost daily.
As discussed above, North Penn’s perception that it must obtain resources from neighboring areas depopulated by Doomsday may result in conflict with Virginia and possibly other regional nations. Further, its military success in supporting Remaining Canada and other United Communities states has brought it tangible rewards. Accordingly, North Penn government policy, especially after the downfall of the Amish party, is to create the most effective armed forces possible, consistent with a democracy. The military is split up into three different divisions, the North Pennsylvanian Army, the North Pennsylvanian Air Force, the North Pennsylvanian Coast Guard and the North Pennsylvanian Navy. The Army and Air Force are the result of a combination of survivors from the US Army and the Penn National Guard as well as instructed Vietnam-era veterans. The Navy, however, was made up of entirely small civilian vessels and basically can only carry out coastal reconnaissance. It would be no match against the navies of Canada or other nearby nations. The Coast Guard, which may be more effective than the Navy, is made up of four small United States Coast Guard cutters found at Westfield and North East, as well as salvaged boats from Erie and speedboat donations from Canada. There are currently 31,000 people serving in the North Penn armed forces accounting for about 4.5% of the population, and another 25,000 in reserves.
While since the 2000 reorganization of the National Guard into the Military and the Regional Guard, the North Pennsylvanian military has grown large in numbers, equipment, most commonly automatic firearms and military attire are very scarce, and North Penn has a policy of "Strip and Save", which calls for after a battle that North Pennsylvanian soldiers must strip the dead enemies (and allies) of all of their battle attire and weapons, although stripped allies are left in their uniforms out of respect. Another problem is that most all military bases in North Penn were built from scratch, other than a handful which were built from existing foundations and old historic military bases. The National Guard armories in Corry, Oil City, Franklin and Meadville are exceptions, as they were proven vital in the early history of North Penn, but nevertheless, North Penn is improvising with their materials available. With the growth of the Great Lakes Compact to include Canada, a powerful trade ally, North Penn hopes to strengthen their forces.
There is also a private protection force, the State Police of Crawford and Erie, which survived in certain parts and reunited two years after Doomsday. The group was rivaled with the Community Convention's Police Forces for jurisdiction of chaotic Erie County, and the group was forcibly disbanded until 1990, when the Community Convention was abolished and the Commonwealth of North Pennsylvania was founded. By then, only 90 members were still alive, but they trained locals in Erie and Crawford County and relocated to North East Township. By 2000, the group's numbers had swelled to over 3,000 members throughout all of North Penn. The group evolved in 2005 into an autonomous, private entity within the government of North Penn and was renamed the Erie and Crawford Special Police.
Sports
The university athletic teams compete mainly against other schools in the region, such as Penn State University in State College and the University of Toledo in the Toledo Confederation, as well as colleges from Superior, Vermont and Aroostook.
The state universities recruit mainly from the North Pennsylvania high school leagues, which are governed by the Lake Erie Interscholastic Athletic Association (LEIAA). Football and basketball games are especially well-attended and the various schools enjoy a high degree of popularity and loyalty from local residents.
Youth sports leagues are generally sparsely attended, parents having too many economic responsibilities, but have one of the highest participation rates of all nations in the Great Lakes Region and former northeastern United States. These leagues are considered important for player development by the high school leagues, and therefore are supported in numerous ways by the NPIAA. Youth coaches also attempt to instill positive ethics in their players.
The exception to the rule regarding youth sports attendance are the Little League regional playoff games held every other year in Warren, which draw good crowds from across the region. (These Little League teams are not yet affiliated with the Little League Baseball organization based in Mexico)
International Relations
Pennsylvania was a founding member of the United Communities in 2007. It is not a member of the League of Nations at the moment, but will consider joining further down the road when international communications are more easy to come by.
The Commonwealth mainly maintains communications with local American and Canadian successor states. Presently they have relations with State College, Toledo, Aroostook, Superior, Thunder Bay, Niagara Falls, London-Ontario, Norfolk-Haldimand, Midland, Sudbury, Ithaca, Binghamton, Canada, and to a certain extent Kentucky and Virginia. They know of the existence of Blue Ridge, Piedmont, Keene, Plymouth, and the North American Union.
Since 2008, they have had a pleasant relationship with Canada. North Pennsylvanian Coast Guard vessels and occasional heavily-guarded civilian vessels attempted to maintain contact with Canada, and before the Saguenay War, the North Pennsylvanians had sent ambassadors to Canada. It had been hoped that via Canada, Pennsylvania could establish diplomatic ties with the larger community of nations. However, the Lawrence Raiders and blockages on the river foiled these attempts.
Since the years following further contact throughout Pennsylvanian survivor-states, North Pennsylvania has become increasingly vocal in further strengthening ties between the larger states in the region, perhaps in the form of either a united economic bloc or a unified, confederation-style government. The interim government is currently in process of beginning reunification with the adjacent State College government, as well as laying the basis for a larger economic union in the area.
Externals
See Also
(originally posted to Talk:1983: Doomsday by Renaultlouis, copied here by False Dmitri (talk) 18:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC))
Edit to North Pennsylvania main page Jul. 15, 2021[]
I've made an extensive set of edits to the NP page following the suggestions Daeseunglim and I have made on the 1983:DD talk and proposals pages. My understanding of LordGanon's message to me was that I could make the changes as an edit rather than as a new proposal. If I've erred, please let me know.
Also, at this point, I'd like to ask that I be confirmed as the adopter of North Pennsylvania, there having been no adverse comments since my June 29 request.
Thank you all.