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Portugal[]

I see that Portugal is reasonably well developed, but does not seem to be much discussed and has a fair, if relatively sparse history. I would like to ask who is the caretaker of Portugal, and, if one exists, if I may be able to assist in working on Portugal, as it is a place of great interest to me. Southern Sea 03:39, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

All you have to do is look at the article history. The creator of this article - and I guess its nominal caretaker - is Xi'Reney. However, I know he's basically sworn off ownership of articles on here.

So long as it fits canon, and you post whatever is planned in advance on the talk page for disscussion, I don't see any problems with you editing it somewhat.

[[User:Lordganon|LorCentraleuropeDD (talk) 08:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)dganon]] 10:26, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely. I will respect the QSS and QAA 100%. Thank you. Southern Sea 16:01, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Can Vítor Alves get a photo as he was the first DD President of PortugaL? This can be used: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%ADtor_Alves CentraleuropeDD (talk) 08:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed Changes[]

Here are a few basic ideas I would like to put forward at first, simple changes that will help me get working on this underway.

  • I intend to change the name of the country from the República Portuguesa (Portuguese Republic) to the Governo Interino das Ilhas Português (Interim Government of the Portuguese Islands). Alternatively, if you don't like that, it could simply be the Governo Interino das Portugal (Interim Government of Portugal).
  • I intend to write a more full description of Portuguese Territory, defining it's limits more securely. The current Portuguese Territory, as I would have it proposed, consists of the following three Setores (Sectors): Açores (Azores), Cabo Verde (Cape Verde), and Madeira. Each of these is further subdivided into concelhos, or municipalities. The government of Portugal has extended full control over the Azores Islands and Madeira, as well as the associated territory of Cape Verde. Portugal has also established military bases on the western coast of the Iberian Mainland, in old Portuguese territory. There are three bases in total, in the vicinity of the ruins of Lisboa and Porto, as well as the devestated town of Portimão. Along with it, I would like to delve a little more deeply into the details of the Portuguese exploration into the mainland. Portuguese exploration has currently extended, as I would propose it, as far east as Faro, Évora, and Tondela, and as far north as Aveiro. The areas around Lisboa and Porto are almost completely unexplored beyond initial forays, due to the lingering dangers of radiation.

Comments, questions, concerns? Southern Sea 17:22, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Also I hope you can clarify the relationship between rump Portugal and Brazil. I believe there is a line about Portugal wanting to join with them. Mitro 19:23, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

I can do that. It states that in 2000 Brazil extended a formal offer to Portugal, asking the island nation to join under Brazil as a federated state. As 10 years have passed since then without Portugal issuing an acceptance, I think it's safe to plausibly assume that the people of Portugal voted down the idea, especially considering their efforts to establish a foothold on the European mainland and their attempts to establish Lisbon as a heritage site. Add that to their involvement in the Second Sicily War and their consultations with various other nations, I think it's safe to say that Portugal is secure in their own sovereign rule. Anyone disagree? Southern Sea 19:33, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Have a look at the Galicia (the one in Spain, not Ukraine) article - as well as the archives of the news page - as well. The author of that article has written some things in relation to Portugal there, and Galicia is their ally as well.

Rest sounds all right.

Lordganon 19:50, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Running through and clarifying a few things in the article, making it generally more condensed, informative, and complete. Not changing anything right now, just bringing things together to make the article a bit more cohesive. Southern Sea 22:16, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

Read the newsbits having to do with Portugal and Galicia, SS. The territory on that map is incorrect. Also, it belongs in the infobox, not there. Lordganon 07:36, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Also, they are not the location of an WCRB office of any kind as of yet - and you definitely need to look at the WCRB article too. You've also changed the Cape Verde section, which you cannot do. You are allowed to add to the article, and to explain things more, but not to change things, as "associated" and what you made it are very different things. I have reverted that part to the original content. Lordganon 07:57, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

My mistake. I misinterpreted the meaning of 'associated state.' I've since corrected my knowledge. Will update to accurately reflect the situation. Adding a new map, too. As for the WCRB, the original article stated that it was a seat of the WCRB prior to my edits. That must have been erroneous. I will remove that.Southern Sea 21:06, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

That would have been a reference to the ADC headquarters, I'm guessing. Map is better, thought two things: it'd have been polite to ask me first before doing that to my map, and that's a really bad map for this, being so tiny, among other things. Lordganon 21:51, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

My apologies. I thought it was the general-use world map. My mistake. As for that, I've been having some trouble finding a map of the Portuguese territories that is of a decent size. Either a new map could be drafted, or the current map, with your permission, could be blown up. I'll get to work on one of my own. Southern Sea 22:42, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Any objection to the new map? I tried to keep it simple. Southern Sea 03:06, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Didn't say you couldn't, note the use of the word "polite." New map is good, though it's missing territory. Again, refer to the news pages. Lordganon 08:55, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Finally found that bit you were referring to. Added the integrated Rias Baixas territory, and off-coloured Cabo Verde to be more clear. Southern Sea 15:23, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a touch undocumented, lol. Map's perfect now. Just keep half an eye on it, make sure that your new version sticks, since it's obvious it was giving you lip. Lordganon 15:41, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

One thing that's never made sense are the contact dates. It's not plausible for them to get into contact with the Nords before the Celts. Nor is any contact before 1992 with them really reasonable, anyways. The Canada stuff being more logical, mind.

The lines you removed about the Sicilian stuff and the pressure to recognize in 2004 must stay as well.

Lordganon 04:11, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Again, all original material must be retained. Now you have the "three civilian infantry carriers which are stationed in" part in addition to the Sicilian and recognizing lines that you originally removed to re-insert. I will put them back in myself if it's not done by this time tomorrow.

Also, that navy is not remotely plausible. Remember, these are merely islands you're dealing with here, and there are basically no facilities that can build most of that anywhere on the Atlantic. Carriers need to be removed, as do the subs - the original ones they had in 1983, torpedo subs, are fine, but these ones definitely are not.

Lordganon 02:59, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Fixing the navy. As for the Sicillian and recognizing lines, I never removed them; they were relocated to the bottom of the page, under the history section, in preparation to start merging the history section with the 2000s and beyond section. It made little sense to me separate the history into two sections, and so I was intending to streamline the two together. Southern Sea 03:11, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Heh. History showed that you had, but you're right. Can't wait until wikia finally fixes all the bugs they put in with their latest update, lol - getting really old, really fast. Lordganon 03:33, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Population[]

I've been going over some figures, and the quoted 2011 population of 912,000 needs to change. Portugal, in 1983 had a population of 9,872,000. Meanwhile, the combined population of the Azores and Madeira is about 500,000. We assume 1% stable population growth for one year, giving us a population of approx. 500,500 in 1984. Now to consider refugees. On the Portuguese mainland, there were two nuclear strikes, hitting the cities of Lisboa and Porto. The combined population of these cities was approx. 700,000, with urban areas of 3,000,000 and metro areas of 2,000,000. If we use the 90/50/25 fatality rate, we end up with a population damage of 2,630,000. This reduces the population of mainland Portugal to 7,242,000.

There were also a large number of tactical strikes by conventional weapons that did a great deal of damage to the population centers of Portugal. Let's assume that these strikes are decimating; with a 10% fatality rate, below that of the nuclear blast but high enough to by extremely destructive. The population of the remaining urban centers of Portugal is roughly 900,000. Using the stated fatality rate, this reduces the population of mainland Portugal by 90,000 (7,152,000). Let's cut it again; half of these Portuguese refugees flee to Spain (3,576,000). Now lets say only a tenth of the remaining Portuguese refugees are picked up in the mid-1980s mission to recover mainland survivors. (357,600) Three years of stable population growth in addition to these refugees. This adds up to a population of approx. 884,100 in 1988, at the four year conclusion of the Mainland Recovery Plan.

Add stable population growth up to the year 2010 (1,100,400). Add the surviving population in the northwest corner of Portugal when the Rias Baixas League territory is assimilated. We can estimate that as about 5% of the would-be population in 1983, as most would have either died during the event or fled to Galicia or other Spanish remainder nations prior to the formation of the Rias Baixas League, as well as the fact that a largely populated portion of the Rias Baixas League was integrated into Galicia as per the Funchal Agreement. This would add up to about 150,000 people. We have reached a total of 1,250,400 people, made purely out of the Portuguese population.

Any number of other refugees could be proposed from other nations, but I would perfer to lean towards lower numbers, as the IGPI could only sustain so many refugees. It is canonically stated, however, that they have recieved so many refugees that they consulted with other local nations on how to deal with the influx of population. The nearest nation, of course, is Spain. The population of Spain in 1983 was 39,184,000. A mere 1% of Spain's population is approx. 391,800, which is a reasonable estimate of those refugees that fled for Portugal (1,642,200). I wouldn't have a reasonable estimate for refugees from other nations, so they could be considered to be part of Spain's estimate.

All of that adds up to a population of 1,642,200 living in Portugal. As only one in twenty surviving Portuguese citizens ever ended up returning to the nation, it seems reasonable to me. Objections? Sorry for the long-winded post, but I like to work my figures out in the open.

Population figures were either found directly at U.S. Census Bureau website, or using 1991-2004 census data and calculating reverse population-growth. Southern Sea 02:18, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, for starters there wasn't any strikes with conventional weapons, just the nukes. However, you're also vastly understating the impact of those blasts - Portugal, along with neighboring areas of southwest Spain, went to hell, far more than you're assuming. There's also little if any refugees that make it to the islands - they are just too far away.

The 2011 population is very reasonable. It's just not including the newly-taken areas, yet. The League actually encompassed Spanish territory as well, and that's pretty much what Galicia took. However, the new Portuguese areas would only add 50-80,000 or so at most. As I said, complete hell.

Lordganon 04:07, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... I see. We'll let it stand, then, I suppose. Southern Sea 17:49, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Proposed Brazil Crisis[]

I have been thinking about thie timeline's balance of power lately and it seems the notion of Portugal joining Brazil opens some interesting ideas. I propose a crisis occur, where the Portuguese are about to take the deal to unify with Brazil. However, since such a move would allow Brazil to project its power without question into the North Atlantic, diplomatic pressure from the ADC, ANZC, and even Argentina leads to the containment of Brazilian power through the scrapping of the deal. None of the above-listed powers, not even Argentina, want to see Brazil grow in strength or become a threat to peace in the North Atlantic. Any thoughts? I know the deal is assumed to have failed, but I thought creating reasons regarding why it failed might be interesting to write about. Gatemonger 17:45, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

It makes no sense at all for them to take the "deal." Really, them considering it at all is a bit of a stretch.

No reasons needed, especially something like that.

And all of that wholly ignores the SAC, ADC, and LoN.

Lordganon 20:25, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well I would think any aspiring power would love to be handed the opportunity to acquire new territory, especially such a historically strategic location, don't you? The potential to project power north and defend the sea approaches from Europe into South America would be pretty tempting. Gatemonger 04:54, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Brazil is not an "aspiring" power. They are the leading member of the SAC, one of the two most powerful groups on the plant atl. They are already a "power."

The SAC already projects its power semi-globally. Nor does that area need "defending."

There is no benefit to either of them for such a thing.

Lordganon 19:00, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

Um so, Portugal should really have passed this by without much thought, right? This would have been resolved in a few years at most, probably right away-ish. There would be no reason for Portugal to be avoiding trying to join the LoN for all these years then, I think.

Portugal should have made a bid for membership in the LoN by 2002 at least, I think. They are an important nation in the ADC and the Atlantic region. Anyone have any reason they wouldn't make a bid and why they wouldn't have been accepted by now? Kotatsu (talk) 16:21, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Brazil is stronger than them. It is worth some consideration. Not that they would ever do it, mind.

...The LoN was not founded until 2008. Around the time the proposal was made.

Lordganon (talk) 04:40, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hm. My bad on not reading closely enough on that, haha. My point is, though, by now, it is most logical that Portugal would have rejected the offer, and by now either joined or made a bid to join the LoN, right? Kotatsu (talk) 16:54, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

They've been getting a lot of aid from Brazil - outright refusal of the offer might jeopardize that. Though it's obvious that they aren't going to take it. Lordganon (talk) 05:23, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Strikes[]

I have discovered two more potential strikes in Portugal; Monte Real Air Base and Lajes Airfield. By 1981, Monte Real Air Base was fielding aircraft capable of delivering sudden response and nuclear retaliation. It was rising in importance as of 1983, and was in preparation to become a formal piece of NATO.

Lajes Airfield was a joint Portuguese-NATO airbase capable of fielding all manner of air-craft, including B-17 bombers. More importantly, it housed US detatchments with the express purpose of tracking Soviet missile submarines in the region. It was one of the primary points of strategic importance in regards to air power in the Atlantic.

Both of these bases warrant a small tactical strike to remove them from the picture; sites have been nuked for much less. Kotatsu (talk) 14:58, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Monte Real Air Base, probably.

Lajes, however, unlikely. Really, it's just a tracking station for the region. No reason at all to hit it.

Lordganon (talk) 02:59, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hm. Alright. Monte Real, but not Lajes. I'll agree with that and note it, heh. I was hoping to clean up the section on the missiles and make it more detailed anyway. Kotatsu (talk) 13:46, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

The Soviets had no weapons that size capable of that range - that would be far more than 10kt in scale.

No way the others are 2MT. Not even close.

Water really isn't going to end up vaporized like that, either.

Lordganon (talk) 20:40, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

My bad, aha. Does 200-500kT sound like a reasonable scale for the Portuguese strikes? Kotatsu (talk) 22:56, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

500kt sounds more like it. Lordganon (talk) 03:04, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Right-o! Kotatsu (talk) 04:21, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Flag of Portugal[]

Hi all, just a quick question. As this is the defacto successor state to the nation of portugal, could we consider the original republic flag for the national flag? If not i propose this for a more cohesive design. Trainor90 (talk) 11:16, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Portugese Islands Government Flag (DD-1983)

proposal of a more unified design for the emblems of the portuguese islands.

I like it, but i too would propose several changes for Portugal, first and foremost the change to the OTL Portughese flag.

A new portuguese president by 2022?[]

My proposal for a new president in 2022 it´s to have Miguel Albuquerque (current President of the Regional Government of Madeira irl and a conservative/PSD politician) as the president of the Portuguese Republic, and maybe being the one that changes the capital to the Portuguese mainland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Albuquerque --CentraleuropeDD (talk) 16:35, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Portugal Post-Doomsday[]

While we can probably make an argument in favor of the Portuguese government evacuating from the mainland immediately after Doomsday, I don’t think that the complete loss of the mainland until recent years is logical. Portugal, target wise, could be comparable to Italy, with a handful of major targets, but concentrated or spread out enough to avoid major repercussions for the entire nation. I think that the government would possibly evacuate as nobody knows what will happen as the surprise attack takes NATO off guard.

It makes contact with surviving groups in the Armed Forces and both the National Republican Guard and the Public Security Police, as well as and elements of the Spanish government and British governments.

The national government with assistance from most of the districts (barring Lisboa and Porto), managing to restore order and returns to Figueira da Foz as a provisional capital. However, the country is strugging with damage to three major and important cities, and nearly collapses several times.

The Azores and Maderia aren’t abandoned, but the national government has limited ability to assist them, resulting in a quasi independent status. However, as things return to relative normalcy, the two districts resume somewhat normal functions with high levels of autonomy.

I would like to see some nations adjust based off the immediate post-Doomsday situation and not necessarily outright collapse, but see periods of struggle and upheaval that results in cultural or political change without a complete territorial collapse. I think Portugal is a ripe candidate for that.

Daeseunglim (talk) 15:25, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Cape Verde decolony[]

I posted this at Talk:1983: Doomsday and Talk:Cape Verde (1983: Doomsday), but a comment here is also worthwhile. Turning Cape Verde into a quasi-colony of Portugal was always a strange decision; but for all that, there's actually very little in the text here to indicate that. The islands are described as "associated with" Portugal, a nice vague phrase that could mean an alliance rather than a colony. And it makes no sense at all for a country that just got smashed by nuclear war could recolonize a country that had only recently broken away. So I've nudged the text here a little to indicate this. False Dmitri (talk) 03:44, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

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