Talk: Republic of Vermont (1983: Doomsday)

Ugh. Apologize for the lack of an edit summary - chalk it up to my inexperience. Mitro, thanks for moving this over. --BrianD 13:20, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Vermont already has a neat flag to symbolize its independence, used by the 18th century Green Mtn. Boys and the modern day Vermont National Guard. I don't know if this TL's Vermonters are more likely to use this flag or invent a new one. Benkarnell 19:00, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to move it over, but be warned I'm still learning the ins and outs of the wiki.--BrianD 02:06, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying you want to use it, or you'd rather wait for somebody (or yourself) to invent a new one? If you want to use the Green Mountain flag, I can add it to the article. Benkarnell 03:25, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

I do want to use it, as it fits with the history of the region. If you want to add it to the article, feel free to do so!--BrianD 03:42, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Ben, I do indeed have a flag! Thanks!--BrianD 03:51, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

New Hampshire

sounds good! does the republic include parts of New Hampshire?--HAD 11:51, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

that's what I'm trying to figure out. Canon thus far has never really indicated that New Hampshire exists as any sort of political entity, so I'm leaning towards some type of Vermont control. Perhaps the state government there fell apart admist the chaos and the surviving city-state of Manchester and townships looked to the Montpelier government for stability.--BrianD 13:00, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

that depends on what happend to New Hampshire. Were there any SAC bases there, any important military falcites?--HAD 14:25, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

turns out there was a SAC base in new hampshire. FB-111's to be exact. --HAD 14:27, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

There are naval shipyards in Portsmouth. The SAC base (Pease Air Force Base) was in Portsmouth until 1991--BrianD 14:32, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

gooddbye, portsmouth. nice knowing you. --HAD 14:35, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

The Aroostook page says: "Victories in southern Maine has once again allowed proposals for a "Greater Aroostook" to be taken seriously. Negotiations with the survivor communities in New Hampshire and Vermont about joining Aroostook, however, have been met with some resistance. The communities in the two former states have evolved their own identity in the years since Doomsday and are uninterested in being absorbed by Aroostook. A comprise proposal to create a "Confederation of New England" that would act as an economic and political union has gained some popularity in the region." I think that fits in nicely with what we've been talking about! Benkarnell 16:30, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Ben, and everyone else, take a look at the Vermont article now. I think I've resolved the issue of an independent New Hampshire and came up with a plausible way for the initial beginnings of a nation of Vermont. I still have to flesh out the issues with the survivor townships in the north (referred to in the Aroostook article), as well as Vermont's skirmishes and battles with the Lawrence raiders and other regional warlords. Also, I want to establish sentiment for the establishment of New Hampshire as its own Republic building up in the 2000s.--BrianD 16:42, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

I think it makes sense for NH to seek Vermontese protection, with the situation in NH so much worse. And it fits canon: the Aroostook page does say that VT and NH have "evolved their own identity", not "their own identities." I'm in favor of de-propping this ASAP. Benkarnell 23:49, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Looking back at that item on the Aroostook page, I understood Aroostook to be negotiating with the survivor communities on their border - which I wrote up as if they evolved separately not just from Aroostook but from Vermont. If we can interpret the Aroostook page to be referring to all of former Vermont and New Hampshire, I'm for that, and would rewrite the Vermont page to reflect Aroostook's attempt at a merger. I still want to keep the communities in the far north their own entity, for now, because I have an idea about them being influenced by the Raiders, and Saguenay, to stay independent of both Vermont and Aroostook.--BrianD 00:00, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

Revising early history because of canon

I decided to revise the early history of Vermont and while I don't know if that's allowed, I had the best intentions.

There is a line on the timeline page which reads,

"By Christmas, Hawaii is the only US state with a functioning government..."

I had Vermont's state government still existing after Doomsday.

I changed the scenario to allow for the survival of Governor Snelling and enough stability within the state to restart the state government soon after DD.

I'm certainly open to correction here, but I want to honor canon and be realistic while doing it. You can't have Vermont with a stable government weeks after the bombs go off when Hawaii has been said along to have the only functioning state government in December.--BrianD 04:18, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

You can change things, sure -- especially if it's to work with canon! I've read your changes, they're fine with me. --DarthEinstein 15:00, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, DarthEinstein!--BrianD 15:28, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

New map

My attempt at drawing the borders for Vermont, Aroostook and the independent survivor communities that border them. I probably messed up the Aroostook borders (I tried to include Bangor). Vermont's borders are in red, Aroostook in orange, the survivor communities/northern townships in blue:

Aroostook also extends into New Brunswick. --DarthEinstein 01:26, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

I forgot! Thanks. I'll make the fix.--BrianD 01:27, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Just a minor cosmetic thing: with all the chaos and nomadism of the world today, the current borders probably don't exactly follow the straight lines of the old states. Unless this map shows the government's claims, which might follow the lines. Benkarnell 01:28, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

It does in regards to Vermont. As far as old Maine goes, Vermont's border stops at the old New Hampshire/Maine border, as Vermont considers Aroostook to be the successor to Maine.--BrianD 01:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

i like this map! until now i had no clear idea where Aroostook actually was! --HAD 08:26, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Parts of New Brunswick are controlled by Aroostook. Mitro 18:20, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

I'll get to work on it.--BrianD 18:22, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Im a little confused about something, if only the Northern portion of Hillsborough/Rockingham counties are controlled by vermont by are all the counties area filled in on the map. Are the people living their included in the the Vermont census in 2009. Brad30977 18:58, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

It is a minor error in the article. The map is correct.

Once again, however: You have no permission, or anything, that allows you to do such an article.

Lordganon 09:55, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Jim Douglas

Would Jim Douglas be interested in visiting the Commonwealth of Kentucky on his tour of the American survivor nations?

Probably. I have the feeling he's going to hit all the places he missed on the way over to Tonga.--BrianD 17:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Long term plans

1. Investigate role as Switzerland of North America and all its political ramifications
2. Investigate move to extend term from 2 yrs (as Vermont governors have OTL) to 4 years (like the US President OTL) and why that is so important for Douglas to do his job as a regional leader now all I have to do is follow through on having the Legislature formalize it
3. New Hampshire succession?
4. Confederation of New England establishment rejected - Vermont feels this would destroy its neutrality
5. exploration of nuked Massachusetts, Conn. and Rhode Island
6. Exploration of New York City - someone has to do it - maybe in 2010?--BrianD 05:35, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

mistake...again=

due to the utterly bizzare nature of the editting page, i manged to turn an spelling correction into a disaster. can someone please fix this? --HAD 16:03, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. I had trouble with the info boxes on another page, too. BrianD 16:08, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

thanks, again. stupid info box. why does the editting version bear no resembelance to the article one whatsoever?--HAD 16:10, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

The best way I've found to make edits on the infoboxes is by clicking on the source button to change the view of the page to the all-text version (switch to source mode). I had to do that to get an infobox to show up on New Montgomery, because creating it in the other mode made the article disappear entirely, or would turn the infobox into a jumbled mess of coding that could only be fixed in source mode. BrianD 16:25, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

thankyou, BrianD. HAD 15:31, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Republic of New Hampshire

Hi, I'm very new around here, but I'm very interested in helping out! I've noticed that New Hampshire has been kind of sucked up by Vermont. I don't know if there are too many folks from New Hampshire on here, but I am one, and I can say that no matter nuclear war, New Hampshire would remain independent. In recent years, there has been a large portion of libertarians moving into New Hampshire, under the Free State Project, and I could see them (or a group similar to them) moving into a position to take the reigns from the fleeing statesmen. New Hampshire would look to no one else for support, but would see most outsiders as hostile. So it could actually flesh itself out to be kind of an interesting contrast; Vermont, the Swizterland of North America, and isolationist New Hampshire. Zackshine 07:33, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Welcome! Since the Free State Project was founded only in 2003 (according to their website), it's not going to be a factor. Sad as it is, lots of nations and states have been subsumed into larger ones in the postwar world: Uruguay, Guyana, American Samoa, Northern Ireland... they've all lost some level of political distinctiveness, although they still exist as cultural factors within their larger confederations. Could there be a "Bring Back New Hampshire" movement within Vermont? Benkarnell 12:06, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, you guys are really good at what you do here, this makes me excited! I could definitely see a, "Bring Back New Hampshire," movement. Benkarnell, if you're interested, would you like to guide me along in how I could structure a wiki page for that possibility? I wouldn't see it as militant, but I could see an entire movement in New Hampshire; a sort of, "Live Free or Die," revival. How do I go along making this a reality? Zackshine 14:49, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hi Zack, this is BrianD, the creator of the Vermont article. Basically I had New Hampshire join Vermont because the latter had a much more stable government in the months post-Doomsday (if you read the History of Vermont page, you'll see that New Hampshire suffered from hits on its military bases, violence that tore apart the state government in Concord; and the death of acting governor Velma Roy, who IMO would have worked towards keeping New Hampshire independent of Vermont if she had lived. Vermont was there, and organized, and there was a sense within NH that union or confederation with Vermont would help it get through the post-Doomsday nightmare.

Still, I've always had the idea that there has been a quiet but substantial movement for eventual independence for New Hampshire. Independence though would work best if New Hampshire were a part of a proposed Confederation of New England that would also include Vermont, Aroostook, and the Northern Townships, plus survivor communities in former Massachusetts and Connecticut. This is something that would have been long discussed and probably inevitable, but still years away from becoming a reality.

Anyway, welcome to the wiki, and feel free to flesh out your ideas! If you have more questions about Vermont, I'll be happy to answer them. BrianD 15:26, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

OK, first thing is to read the History of Vermont to get a feel for the reason New Hampshire was absorbed in the first place. It was done very gradually - basically, Vermont survived as a state, while New Hampshire ceased to function. BrianD wrote it, and trust me that in his histories, nothing happens without a reason! Then you can eaither keep discussing your ideas here, or at Talk:1983: Doomsday, or you can start a page to write down your ideas. Put "{{ddprop}}" at the top of the page, and poof! You've made a proposal. Benkarnell 15:28, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

When you get the chance you might also want to read the Editorial Guidelines and QSS and QAA. Both articles highlight the rules and philosophies that govern the TL. Mitro 15:32, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Just a reminder, the die hard libertarians ended up across the river in upstate New York in the tiny nation of Keene. I am sure that the "Live Free or Die" spirit would remain alive in "occupied" New Hampshire, though. I look forward to seeing your proposal. SouthWriter 02:32, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I think you are little behind the times their South. Zack actually is the original author of Keene (with help from Ben). This discussion led to its creation. Mitro 14:22, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Mitro, there are so many countries now, it's hard for anyone to keep track of them all! --BrianD 14:36, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

So very true. Mitro 14:38, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

But not so hard that we allow something like the United States of Los Angeles and the Kingdom of Hollywood to slip through ;) --BrianD 14:55, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Duh! :-(

I don't even know what led me to read that note. I certainly didn't look close enough or I would have seen the date stamp! But thank you Brian for coming to my defense on that one. --SouthWriter 16:44, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Radio

What about some adding some of the real radio stations that were on air before Doomsday that would be still airing?

For example,

103.7 WKNE-FM would air Post Doomsday Pop and Adult Contemporary.The station is out of Keene.

106.1 WHDQ-FM would air Classic Rock from Pre and Post Doomsday.The station is out of Claremont.

93.9 and 96.3 WWOD-FM and WFYX-FM would air Oldies and Classic Hits from the 1960's,1970's,and 1980's.These stations are out of Woodstock and Walpole.

There are also a few more such as Vermont Classical which plays Oprea and Classical music.

24.147.1.197 21:35, June 23, 2013 (UTC)Jacob Chesley

One problem with that - the continental EMP. Virtually all of these would have had their electronics fried. Few may have been damaged in other ways in chaos afterwards, too.

While stations in those locations may exist again, and may even broadcast the same things, it's probably safe to say that those stations themselves no longer exist.

Lordganon (talk) 06:01, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Vermont Dollar

Which people would be on the Vermont Dollar coins and bills?

24.147.1.197 22:44, July 11, 2013 (UTC)(by Jacob Chesley)24.147.1.197 22:44, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm...

I would say that Thomas Chittenden, Ethan Allen, and Richard Snelling would be locks. Other likely possibilities, probably Ira Allen, Seth Warner, George Aiken, and Franklin Pierce.

Lordganon (talk) 09:23, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Rebuilding and exploration of Boston,Proidence,and New York City?

Although these three cities were destroyed on Doomsday,could they be explored and rebuilt by Vermont and find ruins?For example, the Statue of Liberty tipped over under water and the ruins of buildings.

P.S:Chester Arthur and Calvin Coolidge could be on the Vermont dollar aswell.

24.147.1.197 14:29, July 12, 2013 (UTC)by Jacob Chesley24.147.1.197 14:29, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

They will be far too radiated for many, many years to come for any of that. Providence, decades. Boston, centuries. New York, more or less forever.

Best they could do would be to fly over the blast zones.

The Statue of Liberty is destroyed. Between our sources and our guesswork, it's been established that at most part of the pedestal would be left. The statue itself would have been blown to smithereens by the blasts. Most you'd find of that now would probably be a really twisted chunk of copper in the nearby ocean.

Those two men, while born in Vermont, really have little to do with the state. Very doubtful that they would be on anything.

Lordganon (talk) 08:24, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

The rest of Maine

What country or countries now own the parts of Maine that are not part of Aroostook?

24.147.1.197 19:04, July 19, 2013 (UTC)by Jacob Chesley24.147.1.197 19:04, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

A portion of western Maine, centered roughly on the town of Eustis, is part of the area referred to as the "Northern townships."

Past that, there isn't anything past isolated settlements, as best.

However, it has been established that there is no nations in the rest of Maine. Let's just say that between the fallout from the strike on Portsmouth, several strikes in the Portland area, and the downfall of Augusta and Bangor, it didn't go well.

Lordganon (talk) 07:12, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Fates of Springfeild MA, Portsmouth, Nashua, and Plattsburgh

Although these cities were hit by nukes in '83, could they be explored and possibly rebuilt by Vermont? I know that the nuke that hit Plattsburgh also damaged Burlington, although Burlington was able to be repaired and resettled in the 1990's, so that means most of the radiation would have died down by now. Also, how many nukes hit Springfield, Plattsburgh, Portsmouth and Nashua?

Boston and all of Rhode Island won't be resettled and rebuilt for a long time due to the radiation. However, Rhode Island will probably be resettled first because of it being a small area. For Boston, it may take a few more decades or centuries for rebuilding to begin. Hmm, I wonder if Plymouth might want Rhode Island.

24.147.1.197 15:21, September 29, 2013 (UTC)Jacob Chesley24.147.1.197 15:21, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Jacob, I think you should get an account lol. It will make this process easier. :P  Imp ^{(Say Hi?!)} 15:23, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

The damage to Burlington was partially from shock/blast waves from the Plattsburgh strike, but mostly from actual waves. A strike on Plattsburgh, were it too close to the lake or right on it, depending on the wind and the exact location of the blast, could send waves across the lake. Picture that hitting Burlington. Very fixable, and no radiation.

Don't know why in earth Nashua was listed as getting hit by anything in the article. I removed it.

As for a number of nukes, one each.

The Boston core will probably not be resettled until well into the next century, along with the detonation sites in Rhode Island. Between the two, the resettlement rate would be about the same.

Rhode Island will probably end up split between Vermont, Plymouth, and the Outer Lands. Islands to the Outer Lands, east side of the bay to Plymouth, and the rest to Vermont. The Providence strike at the top of the bay gives us a rather definite impassable boundary for east-west movement, after all.

Yes, JC, please register.

Lordganon (talk) 07:36, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Articles About New Hampshire and Connecticut

Could articles about the states of Connecticut and New Hampshire be made about their life before, during, and after Doomsday? We already known most of New Hampshire is now part of the Second Vermont Republic and so is Northwestern Connecticut. The rest of the state was abandoned due to fallout coming from New York City or other nuclear strikes. Maybe once most of the radiation dies out, maybe Vermont can repopulate the state and rebuild the abandoned cities.

24.147.1.197 23:27, November 20, 2013 (UTC)Jacob Chesley

Nothing is stopping someone from making articles on them. Lordganon (talk) 11:00, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Bernie Sanders

What role would Sanders play in the Republic of Vermont, given that he was the mayor of Burlington at the time of DD? Arstar talk 08:40, September 6, 2015 (UTC)

Adoption

Given Brain's retirement from the TL I was wondering if anyone else has adopted this article. If nobody else has I would like to. Arstar talk 08:52, September 6, 2015 (UTC)