Talk: South Florida (1983: Doomsday)

First, it appears that a better equivalent would indeed, as I summized, be "Southwest Florida" (that wiki article includes all but the tip of the state, plus a county or two above your chosen counties).

And now, my population estimation. Using the population increases for Florida from 1980 to 2000, and interpolating for counties either from the 2000 census or the 2007 estimates given, I get a populaton of about 495,000 in 1983. And then come the refugees from Miami-Dade (98,000), Broward (622,500), and Palm Beach (135,500). The survivors from Miami-Dade county are less because the population was so clumped around Miami. As you can see, Southeast Florida would have a massive refugee problem. The population east of the Everglades would triple to 1,351,000! Assuming just for simplicity that this population is halved in the seven years between DD and 1990 to 675,500, and increases by 1% a year, the population would be 810,600 in 2010.

I think that would be right, but you seem to forget that most of the lands of the Everglades (West of Lake O.) are not suitable for farming, with the exception of lands near Naples. Arstarpool 22:10, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile, the "Okee Raiders" would have most likely salvaged the abandoned cities of southwest Florida. These bandits could become a real threat to the Bahamas and the whole Caribbean area.SouthWriter 17:58, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with that South. What do you think the population of the "Okee Raiders" should be? Also what are your general thought on the article? --GOPZACK 18:14, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

It's hard to tell about how many renegades would come out of the suburbs of Ft.Lauderdale to begin terrorizing the Okeechobee shore. They would also seek to work their way up and down the Atlantic coast north of Ft. Lauderdale (up toward Cape Canaveral). The Beach towns of Indian River, St. Lucie, and Martin Counites would be at their mercy as well. I'd say have a look at crime statistics for the area, extrapolate gang strength, and then figure the number of survivors and refugees between Ft. Lauderdale and Brevard County. Figuring the worst scenario, have a high yield bomb take out the Cape from about five miles inland. That would completely destroy Titusville and launch facilities and leave about fifty percent of the population of Cocoa and Merrit Island down towards Palm Bay. West of the Cape would recieve a double hit, being towards Orlando, which would have been bombed as well.

In general, your article seems okay, so far. The Raiders may not be too much of a problem to the Republic if they can hold their own on the east coast. If Bahaman and Cuban forces give them to much grief, though, they could head across the state as a force much like a hurricane (the likes of which the young Republic will indeed have to deal even before the Raiders come hunting).

I think that the Okee Raiders could be easily defeated, given the large amount of population of RSF it would be able to defeat them in a heartbeat.

Quick Question: What would be the biggest city? I live in Miami/Kendall, but assuming that area would be toast i can only leave to assume that Florida City would be the biggest city. Arstarpool 22:10, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Population

BIG WORRY: 800,000 people? In swamp-infested, malaria-ridden, hurricane stricken Florida? Not likely, by any stretch of the imagination. It's only with modern technology that Florida can have such a dense population. They're not going to be able to maintain enough food to feed themselves, the population, IMO should be tens of thousands, AT MOST. Louisiannan 15:51, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

For all population concerns talk to SouthWriter, he has done some absolutely brilliant work in regards to that and has helped me with the populations for many articles including this one. --GOPZACK 21:13, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Louis does have a point. Some of the local population levels in the US are a product of modern technology. Would Las Vegas be as large or popular as it is without air condition? Mitro 22:09, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Goodd point Louis. Seeing that you dropped this note on top of the notes I wrote about the onslaught of hurricanes the area has seen. However, the first, and biggest, did not come until 1992, almost nine years after doomsday. Since the survivors had by then figured out that they had better build housing tough enough to withstand hurricanes that were sure to come, I'd say that they would have been more or less ready when by then.

That many people, though, is a problem. They would have probably been migrating up the coast through the ruins. The area above Tampa would have been a lot better suited for a settlement than the Everglades. At least a few cruise ships would have been available to move the more fortunate of the refugees to Mexico, Jamaica, and even Cuba. Perhaps a population of between 50 and 100 thousand would be the most that could safely stay in South Florida.SouthWriter 02:51, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

South you've inspired me to begin writing up an article for survivor state north of tampa centred in Gainesville but extending to the

sea. Something like this. --GOPZACK 21:21, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Some guy named Perryz (seems to be Hispanic) has started work on the page already. I suggest you go over there and manage it. He is new (I've seen you and him on the same talk page, in fact), but he did put the page up first. You can help him make it more acceptable to canon, SouthWriter 21:10, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hurricanes

"Andrew" - 1992

Just as the Republic was beginning to get on its feet, it received a wallop. The hurricane which we call "Andrew" came ashore near Miami and blew away whatever wasn't permanently built to withstand 150 mile per hour winds! We can hope that ham radios were picking up warnings coming in from the Bahamas and Cuba, but it could not have been easy for the struggling survivors. The date, for reference, was August 24, 1992. The storm would go on to hit Louisiana a few days later.

We've had this discussion before, and I concede that with nuclear summers following the nuclear attacks we would not have the same weather. Warmer temperatures in the southern hemisphere (especially at the equator) would probably intensify hurricane activity. For simplicity's sake, though, we ought to assume OTL hurricanes at least the same intensity. SouthWriter 02:12, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

I agree South, feel free to write up a section on that. --GOPZACK 02:33, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

As you can see in the entries below (changed from major to subheadings) I spent about an hour following up on the idea. I will see what "damage" I can do tomorrow with these storms.SouthWriter 03:41, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

"Charley" - 2004

Most of the Republic dodged this one, but two towns in the northernmost county were flattened by Hurricane Charley on August 13, 2004. This storm would cut a path across Florida and hit the South Carolina coast (uninhabited in TTL). )

"Jeanne" - 2004

The Republic again "dodged" a storm a month later in the third week of September. The storm turned north at Lake Okeechobee, dumping "tons" of rain from the Republic of South Florida all the way to the Virginian Republic. SouthWriter 02:29, March 19, 2010 (UTC

"Katrina" - 2005

It is not often that we get such a warning of upcoming disaster as we did in OTL with this killer storm. Almost lost in the coverage was the damage the Category 1 storm did in south Florida before heading into the gulf. The southernmost county of TTL "Republic of South Florida" was among the first American counties to sustain damage and death on August 25, 2005. The storm would go on to devestate the city-states of Mississipi just as they were becoming power brokers in the area. It would probably not be until contact was made with the the League of Nations that any real progress would be made in rebuilding what those city-states had accomplished in twenty years.

"Wilma" - 2005

The Republic took a direct hit with this one. The storm came in from the West, having intensified unexpectantly. Hitting Collier county, south of the capital, the storm spent four and half hours crossing the peninsula. About half of that time was between landfall and Lake Okeechobee. The storm hit on October 24, 2005. SouthWriter 03:28, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Education

How is it that there would be such a low literacy rate in this developing nation? Are you assuming a large migrant population of Haitian and Cuban immigrants that were not able to escape on cruise ships after DD? If that were the case, a republic probably would not arise here.

I don't think such "pride" in illiteracy would abound. The children would not be forsaken to the ways of the wild after DD. After a republic was established the next generation would be educated to at least a level of basic literacy. SouthWriter 21:32, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

What I meant to say is that the area of the Everglades is an area where people do not seem to be putting an effort towards vigourous education, while they are focused mainly on survival rather than in the more northern parts which are more stable than the south. Arstarpool 03:30, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

East Caribbean Federation

As an English-speaking country with a Caribbean coastline, S. Florida is a strong candidate for an alliance with the East Caribbean Federation. I think it's an old idea that the ECF has some presence, or at least some close ties, with survivors in this region, and it would be a good way for them to expand their influence in the face of aggressive Cuban exploration. It would also help us see how bits of the US became integrated in regions transcending the old borders. I think it's very possible that we'd see both Bahamians and Cubans exploring this area from the early 90s onward. Benkarnell 20:09, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. In fact the sooner the survivors can establish themselves the better when it comes to Cuban excursions onto US soil. In the early nineties this land was still under the authority of the American Provisional Administration. I am somewhat shocked that the Benjamin Franklin did not head up the eastern seaboard before making the trek across the Atlantic. But that ended up adding to the mystery of the developing 'superpower' which became the Virginian Republic! :-)

--SouthWriter 03:12, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

How about this for an explanation: the explorers had re-provisioned somewhat while rounding South America, but some necessities were running low. Since the West Coast had been so desolate, they didn't want to risk being stranded off the East Coast with no way to re-stock on essentials, and decided to head in the other direction, hoping for the best. Sort of a stretch, but it would have been a safe bet at least that Ireland was doing OK. Benkarnell 18:05, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the fact that this exchange is taking place under the heading of the East Caribbean Confederation gives a clue to the fallacy of that scenario. The article, after some discussion if I remember the article on the Panama Canal correctly, states that the ship made it through the canal and thus would have had to make ports of call all over the Caribbean on the way to its next stated destination. To be fair to them, we will have to assume that the decision to head east instead of north from the Bahamas would have been based on the radio signals they received from the Azores. They had enough stores for at least sixteen months, and they could not have been out more than six months with their limited stop in the Pacific Northwest. SouthWriter 19:24, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

That was, in fact, one of the instances where we had to make a "deep change" to canon because what was written was just so implausible. The Canal was bombed, so the ship had to go around. Benkarnell 19:37, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

I read the following at the Timeline: "After a hard passage through a bombed and nearly unusable Panama Channel, the Franklin approaches Continental Europe." I naturally assumed that the consensus of that discussion had been resolved. I remember doing comparative measurements concerning the notion of going around Cape Horn. I think the discussion was in the Panama article talkpage. If this sentence is not true, then the whole dynamics of the trip changes. Ports of call along South America will have to be accounted for. This would be in the early stages of the relations between the southern "superpowers," but contact would have been with the more friendly of the nations on the west coast and then Brazil on the east coast. Plenty of places to restock during the extra time, if need be.

I can see how the decision to "give up" on the American east coast might have been far more likely by then. The Franklin would have been leaving Brazil for Cape Verde before making its way to Europe. Radio contact with northern nations on both side of the Atlantic would then have been possible, just as the article indicates. I guess that sentence in the original article needs to be edited, and perhaps a paragraph about the trip around SA be put in as well. SouthWriter 20:35, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the Timeline right now is sort of like a cluttered garage that needs cleaning out. That one line of canon was precisely the issue in the long-drawn-out discussions over Panama. The final decision was that we'd have to reluctantly reverse it, since Panama City, as a major US base, would definitely be a target, rendering the canal impassable. I guess I forgot to change it on that page. The updated version is in Panama Canal Zone, specifically in the last paragraph of the section "Colombian Intervention". The Franklin anchored in the Gulf of Panama and moved on around South America.

Hm, the actual Benjamin Franklin page also still has the old route, actually a copy-paste from the Timeline. I think that I was just fatigued after writing the enormous Canal Zone page and never bothered to re-trace my steps. It might be worthwhile to check with others who are involved with that part of the world, but I am just about certain that the new story, in which the Canal was first re-opened in 2000, is now the accepted version. Benkarnell 20:55, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Good enough. I figure if you add a few stops along the SA coast, you'd add an itenerary to the mission, learning a little about the nations that survived, setting the stage for future international agreements that lead up to the LoN. Looking at the map, it would definitely be closer to go to Europe rather than back to North America. You might even be able to work in a stop in western Africa! SouthWriter 03:14, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

How nice it is when the pieces fit together like that :). I'll try to make the changes today. Benkarnell 13:29, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry to remove that content but based on some of the discussion above, it seems plausible that East Florida would join the ECF. Mitro 13:07, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

In order to resolve the conflict, I wrote in that the ECF is a major trade ally, but has shown no interest towards annexation. Arstarpool 22:14, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think "annexation" is the right word for the Federation. A nation joins the federation as an alliance, but does not become an extension of said federation. A member state of the League of Nations first either applied or was invited to join, but that does not make the joining a political union. The same thing occurs with the North American Union and the Dixie Alliance -- Member states are not "annexed." SouthWriter 22:59, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Facist dicatator?

Hey, I'm in my picky mood. I looked up facism -- it's a nationalistic obsesion. How can a small village have a leader who is arrogant and fighting for an organic social order. Are they all hispanic? Or white? And does the village consider its way of life essensial for its corporate identity?

Like I said, I'm in my picky mood. Disregard this if a better word (I have no idea what!) is not forthcoming. :-) SouthWriter 23:14, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Miami Springs, where El Dorado sprouted up from, is a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. Among the thousands of Cubans that live there, there are many who were in fact expelled from Cuba by Castro after the Cuban Revolution. My idea was that one of these ex-Commies would come into power by force....and I never really finished the idea. Arstarpool 23:28, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Flag

I think I mentioned it somewhere before, but if not -- I don't like the flag. I know the republic has had a rough time of it, but going

from a bright, clearly decernable cross with seal, to a dark stripes on a dark background with the seal barely visible against the field, is going too far to the "dark side" for the former "sunshine" state. I understand the blend of stripes with shield, but not the disapperance of the white for the blue (and a darker red, or crimson on top of that). Here is a flag reclaiming some of the white, but keeping the other colors essentially as they are. The yellow fringe is not necessary, but helps contain the white edges. The 13 stripe motif is gone, but the old design obsured them anyway. I thoght about several variations, but placed this one here for your consideration. The seal could be centered on the tri-colors; the bottom white sripe coulbe removed and the other colors broadened; the seal could be centered on the bi-colored (blue & crimson); or the original red could return in place of the crimson.

Just some thoughts. SouthWriter 14:23, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

In fact, I like it! I had originally scrapped the background of the flag from a pic of the althist: "Heartland", and did little changes. I will take the design you gave me and the other one that we made and I will try to toy around with it and see what I get. Arstarpool 23:22, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

I look forward to what you come up with. Any flag I don't have to change the seal on is easy. I don't have the right software to write on a curve, so it's better for any writing around the edge of the seal to stay the same. SouthWriter 02:27, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

The new flag looks good. I think you need to adjust the width of the stripes a little, but overall the aqua-marine and white stripes remind me of the gulf and the white sands of its beaches! The darker blue in the corner is the same as that of the American flag, and that in itself is significant, I think. --SouthWriter 20:37, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Gitmo

How did Gitmo become a part of South Flroida not to mention that it may have been a target? --GOPZACK 19:27, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that the USSR would nuke one of its closest allies in Cuba. I had planned that GITMO would be operated by the LoN, but SF would be allowed to house some of their navy. Arstarpool 19:36, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oh man I forgot... But wouldn't Cuba attack Gitmo? Or the USSR could hit them with some non nuclear missiles. --GOPZACK 19:40, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Gitmo is dangerously close to Santiago de Cuba, and therefore may have suffered some collateral damage. Knowing this, though, the US may have used a lower yield nuke (since canon has it being a target) to assure Gitmo's survival. I figure a strike on the west side of Santiago of a 10 to 15kt nuke would just about do in the province without too much harm to Gitmo.

After that, the Cuban forces would probably have been too decimated to do much attacking on their own. Given the strategic location, Gitmo may have been a secondary target -- IF any ever came. SouthWriter 19:57, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

To Zack's idea, while a non-nuclear ballistic missile could be used, it would do too much damage to local Cuban towns, not to mention damage to whatever was left of Santiago. While I don't doubt that the base might have been attacked in some form or another, and this may have been a small victory for the Soviets, they may have lost face with Cuba when things started to go back to "normal". Arstarpool 20:24, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

To be honest I don't think the USSR gives a damn about those Cuban villages. I also believe South i right that initially the Cuban forces would be to decimated they may still invade later on. Also if Gitmo survived the bombing they may very well abandon Gitmo for Somewhere safer in the Caribbean fear further strikes or a Cuban invasion. If they did survived a Cuban invasion or a strike I think they would have faced a flood of refugees coming from the bombed out ruins of Santiago. --GOPZACK 22:15, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Even the slightest attack on an allies' homeland shows that you just "don't give a shit" about them and would be willing to spill any blood necessary just to destroy one navy base. That attack could quite possibly change post-Doomsday Cuba. If a Soviet attack was made on Cuba, that may inspire another "Revolution" showing that the Communist system does not work, as ones allies are only tools of destruction.

Furthermore, the situation would be in kindof in a "Catch 22". If Santiago was hit once by Americans, that would cause moderate damage to Gitmo. If Gitmo was hit by the Russians, not only would it destroy the Cuban city of Guantanamo, but it would have caused substantial damage to whatever was not destroyed by the low-yield nuke on Santiago. No matter what, one ally will end up spilling blood (or unleashing a radiated blaze of destruction, either one) of the other ally. Arstarpool 22:38, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

So, tell us again exactly why the US would target Santiago in the first place, especially in a first strike scenario? I'd think that striking the capital at Havana would be enough to nutrualize the threat, leaving the US presense on the island to "pick up the pieces" as the opposition forces mount a takeover. Nuking an ally would probably NOT be a first strike option for the Soviets either. SouthWriter 02:57, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not the one who brought up the idea of nuking Santiago, but I'm assuming that the city might have been targeted by a single missile (low-yield) in the North-West, causing enough damage to Santiago and leaving little radioactive presence in the area to pose a long term threat to Gitmo. Gitmo would be in a unique situation, since it would most definitely see the destruction caused at Santiago, but may be swamped by thousands of refugees from Santiago. These refugees, however, would have to go through a narrow corridor, as almost the entire perimeter of Gitmo is surrounded by mines placed by the Cuban government some years ago. The Cuban military, however, with a better knowledge of the minefields than the refugees, or even Americans, would soon begin to breach into the perimeters, causing a battle to engulf the base. While the Americans may win due to their superior military technology, much of the base would be in ruins and many of the soldiers may eventually evacuate, possibly to Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands. Those who stayed behind might possibly build a fortified city-state, with many Cuban refugees housing themselves within the perimeters.

What would this mean for the Guantanamo Bay Detention Facility? Arstarpool 03:32, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

It is canon that Santiago was nuked but with what is beyond me. The US also had a minefield of their own their. & it was for a time the second largest minefield in the world. Also the Cubans had the "cactus curtain" to keep refuges from escaping to Gimo. It will be fascinating to how this all turns out. Its all very interesting.GOPZACK 03:42, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, the Detention Center as such is a production of OTL - post Doomsday. Before that it was used as a refugee camp. Some of the refugees were held pending deportation back to their homeland (Haiti) for a while until the Supreme Court barred the practice as unconstitutional. The actual "infamous 'Gitmo' Detentions Center" was built in 2005, though the existing facilties had been used for detension since 2002. SouthWriter 05:05, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Evergladesland (aka Evergladeston?)

Why or how would anyone build a town "deep in the heart of the Everglades"? Besides, Highway 93 (aka I-75) is known as Aligator Alley and cuts right across the Big Cypress National Preserve north of the Everglades National Park (which most would consider "the" Everglades. Some resurfacing might indeed be needed for this highway, though it would not have seen much heavy traffic to "wear it out" since it was last maintained in the early 1980's. There is, of course, already a town called Everglades, near the coast south of Naples. It is on the edge of the swamp and thus a more logical place to rebuild a civilized town. SouthWriter 17:34, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'll "move" it there. Arstarpool 19:32, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

US Virgin Islands

Two things: first, how can a provisional government turned nation expand to such lengths as to "claim" land that never was part of Florida in the first place. If anything explorers from the USVI would have been landing on Florida's shores in attempts to reclaim part of their former nation. Secondly, the East Caribbean Federation does not "own" its member island states. Each state is in voluntary alliance with the others by mutual agreement. However, I concede that the Virgin Islands "belong" to the Federation.

It probably is against the interests of the Naples government to begin "claiming" lands it has no way of controlling anyway. It is just now becoming able to rejoin the community of modern nations, and still is heavily dependent on trade with the neighboring island nations to barely survive. SouthWriter 17:48, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Your right. I'll drop that stuff immediately. Arstarpool 19:32, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Okeechobeeton?

Taking a look at this island using Google Earth, I see absolutely NO development on what seems to be protected wet lands. Of course, after Doomsday that protected status might be moot. But still, just why would people living in already primitive conditions seek refuge on a swampy island. And if they did, how or why would a young government have "make work" projects to build a bridge to them? SouthWriter 17:53, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I agree with all three points South. I feel that Arstarpool seems to have forgotten that the two of us worked on it as well. I'm marking this as a proposal until we get this mess sorted out. --GOPZACK 19:23, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Making it a proposal WILL NOT do anything. It was a proposal long ago, and just because there are some things that need to be worked out does not mean that it should be de-canonized. Thats just a load of crap. Just change whatever you feel needs changing. Arstarpool 19:32, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Calm down, when we take issue with an article we mark it as a proposal until the issue is resolved. --GOPZACK 19:34, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Zack, I'm with Arstarpool there, this article went through the wringer to be canonized. To remove it from the line up of nations to "proposal" status is a bit harsh at this point. He has the right as caretaker of the article to make changes along the way. Disagreement along the way is going to happen. I made a lot of changes without consultation, just going with what he had laid down. If I'd wanted to, I could have just smoothed out the problems with a little wordplay and hoped for the best. The article is open to editing and "undoing" at will. SouthWriter 00:49, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Zack, if you claim to have "worked on it" then you would have worked out all the crap. South has done it, I have done it, why can't you? Marking it as a proposal was pretty stupid, as it is a canon nation. Believe me, I could name a couple reasons to de-canonize some of your articles as well.

Apart from that, you do not have to refer to yourself as "we" like I started here yesterday. Arstarpool 02:34, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Now, now. Let's "play nice." This is a colaborative effort, and there are "rules." The "Proposal" tag has been used to take some articles off the table when they start to get out of hand after having been canonized (usually too quickly). This article had some problems, and they were ironed out before canonization. Changes now made should be discussed if they diverge from the basic tenure of the article. But it will take more than one person to tag the article as "proposal" or worse. All such actions must be - or at least should be - discussed with the primary editor of an article. SouthWriter 03:18, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Southwest Florida International Airport

It is under-estimating development of the rest of the 'deep south' to assume that the Southwest Florida International Airport is the "
last operating airport" there. Of course, unless the "deep south" is to be defined as the state of Florida. I have at least three airports in Piedmont, and one is mentioned in Asheville in both the articles on Piedmont and Blueridge. South Carolina was the "birthplace" of the Confederacy, though Alabama holds the title of "Heart of Dixie." County airports all over the south would be operating once fuel sources for airplanes (and eventually jets) were available. In fact, for a short time, once electronics were replaced with simpler systems, airplanes could have been flying reconnaissance within a year of DD. SouthWriter 16:13, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm...by the deep South I meant Florida, and the very southern regions of Georgia, Alabama, Missisippi, and Louisiana. Arstarpool 17:06, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured as much. I should have suggested "the gulf coast" as an alternative. That really IS the deepest you can get in "the south." I see you changed the article, but maybe you can revise it to read "on the gulf coast" for clarity's sake. SouthWriter 17:12, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Aren't you one of the other caretakers of the article as well? Why don't you revise all the stuff, too? Arstarpool 17:31, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

I try to help, but as for developing the storyline, I leave that to others. I could just "revise" at will, but there are a lot of projects I am following, so I usually just make suggestions. SouthWriter 17:37, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Revamping

After realizing most of Miami-Dade County would have escaped unscathed, I am going to revamp the article. Believe me, this is a big deal, Florida City, Homestead, Doral, and Key Biscayne, four relatively large cities that would have managed to survive, this allows me to raise the population back to its original level of 800,000, that number including the "aftermath" of starvation and sickness that seems to have plagued every known town to man.

Zack, if your reading this, remember that YOU are the creator of the article, don't mark it as a proposal again like you did last time, just change the damn stuff you don't like.

South, the same applies to you. If you feel something needs changing, just do it. Arstarpool 05:55, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Its fine man, :) --GOPZACK 02:10, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

How do you think its turning out? And what about the FL Unification War? Arstarpool 02:27, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Key West and Homestead

Why is Key West a city of South Florida? It is alreadly listed as having been destroyed on Doomsday.

Also Homestead has a air force base right next to it. The city of Homestead would be destroyed as well. Mitro 17:02, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Ok so Zack removed the mention of the province that Key West was the capital, but there are a lot of other references to the town in this article. Also I highly doubt South Florida controls Guantanamo Bay. Post-DD, I'm pretty damn sure that would be under Cuba control rather than an American survivor state. Mitro 03:12, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

I've been against the Gitmo stuff since the beginning arguing that the USSR would have hit it or the Americans there would have evacuated to Porto Rico. Needless to say I was out numbered and was defeated. I'm glad to see someone agrees with me. --GOPZACK 03:19, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Just the geographical location of the base, on the southeast point of Cuba, makes it unlikely that a small American survivor state will even bother occupying it. Even with LoN help, the cost of running it must be to much for a recovering survivor state. [EDIT] Also just reading the Cuba article again, but it appears they have several bases in southern Florida itself, and yet they let South Florida occupy Gitmo? That does not seem possible. From what canon tells us Cuba is the stronger nation in the region. Plausibility points to the base being under Cuba control. Mitro 14:41, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

For the record, all I argued was against the bombing of Gitmo in the first place. I did not address whether it should still be in US hands. Also, I was not consulted in much of the expansion of Southwest Florida. I'd scale it back to the original perimeters and kick the Cubans off of American soil (if at all possible). SouthWriter 23:40, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

I too remember South Florida being smaller before I went on my break. If there are no objections I am going to remove references to Homestead, write in that Key West and Homestead were destroyed and remove references to Gitmo. I'll leave any further scaling back of South Flordia to those who have been doing the majority of the work on the article. As for Cuba, I would talk to Vlad since he is the caretaker of the article if I am not mistaken. Mitro 19:47, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

I've begun purging the article and fixing it up. --GOPZACK 20:11, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

As I stated on someone's talk page, the only true point of interest in Key West is the military installation at the southern tip of the city. A low yield would take out the installation, and harm the southern half, but the north would escape pretty well. If that fails then I can just have Key Largo take the place of Key West. The Floridian Unification War can still exist without Homestead, instead the aggressor is centered in Florida City. I am going to write up a whole new set of provinces in about a week when I get my computer fixed.

As for the Cuba issue, that can't really be resolved unless we get a verdict from Vlad on taking out the Cuban camps. Or we could just have the Cuban settlements be just on the eastern tip of the state. Arstarpool 01:10, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Key West is not that big of a town, the loss of half of their land would be devestating. Mitro 03:02, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys. I'm in the area of Belle Glade/Lake Okeechobee right now. I can't type much since I am typing from my iPod touch but I'll be back on the site fully again by next Monday. Arstar 22:07, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Disneyworld

Any idea what would've happened to Disneyworld, its far enough away from Orlando (about 20 miles) that damage would've been limited, and also what would've happened to all the tourists?--Smoggy80 15:34, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

More of a question to ask on the First Coast or Florida page, but...

More likely than not, the tourists, seeing the blast, would have gone somewhat bezerk. Disneyworld would probably have been mostly destroyed by them, and refugees from Orlando.

Lordganon 15:42, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Why would Orlando be nuked again? I mean, I know its considered a major city but in reality its kind of a cluster of suburbs and tourist attractions that are tied together at the heart of Orlando.

And I know this is off topic, but what would happen to the people who may have been on the rides at the time? Doomed to die, stuck on a roller coaster? Arstar 21:03, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Orlando is the site of the University of Central Florida, second largest in the country. Minor reason, but....

It's also the location of the former McCoy Air Force Base. While the air force left in 1975, and much turned to civilian control, a large portion was under control of the navy until 1999. It's also a major center for reserve forces, and could very easily turn into a major base again if needed, even today.

The base is located in the suburbs of the city, and a blast there would take it all out.

And yeah, they'd have to try to climb down. Which would probably end badly.

Lordganon 03:39, February 3, 2011 (UTC)