I s'pose we'll have to work together on Andorra/Euskadia, etc. given that it overlaps both France and Spain. Louisiannan 22:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I inserted a new map, until I can find a map that satisfies me but I'll settle for this, I have indicated in grey partially inhabited areas, held by bandits, guerrillas, small communities, nomad families and minor warlords. An area of mobile and variable population known as "the carousel". In white are the dead areas, heavily contaminated areas where human occupation is inadvisable. Because much of Biscay and the Basque Country have been affected by radiation have erased part of that line of expansion, I have left a narrow strip of coastline at the mouth of Nervión river if they want to have a presence in the territory, but not I advise holding still Bilbao.


Tristan/Louis: Do you feel this article is complete and ready for graduation? Mitro 19:59, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

In general terms yes, but not to add to country profiles, I lack some corrections and I like that the other countries define their position on emerging nations in the Peninsula, it is clear that the Spanish question divides the Atlantic Defensive Comunity. PdO claims the territory but is going to be forced to relinquish some of their aspirations and recognice all or part of the new governments, Canada supports PdO, but Celtic Alliance and Portugal supports Galicia, Asturias, Euskadi and the Greater Andorra. The SAC is also highly debated issue. Also not clear to me that kind of conflict has PdO with the Sicilian Republic, or where it has ( Balearic Islands, mainland Spain, Rif, Melilla, Malta or where?).Tristanbreiker 09:52, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


I added a new map with the recent modifications.Tristanbreiker 11:42, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I really have to doubt that those little states you've slipped in against the borders of Andorra and the RoS are at all plausible. The other two, sure, but not in the least those three. Lordganon 17:16, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

There aren´t States. Are small communities, with some degree of autonomy and organitation, but not internationally recognized as states and they can´t be considered as a country.Tristanbreiker 23:35, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they are. International recognition means nothing.

And, you're missing the point. They are literally next to established states, one of which is the legitimate claimant to the area, and both are expansionist in some form, especially the RoS. For them to exist at all makes almost no sense.

Lordganon 08:11, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

A small clarification.
Cazorla and Granada are survivor Boards, the idea that I have about them is this: at some moment they were established as emergency Boards until the situation returns to normal (some moment between 1984 and 1986), somehow they resisted the attempts of the former Spanish National Republic of annexation, but now that the expansion of the Republic of Spain moves smoothly annexation is imminent, preferably through diplomatic channels, At no time was declared independent states, which facilitates its annexation,
Olot's case is more complex. In this intervening Catalan nationalism, submitted but not eliminated by the expansion of RoS and Andorra, the existence of this Board is the practical example of the logical difficulties that a small country like Andorra would find in his expansion in the area, please, Andorra was less than a county two decades ago and now seems want to make an empire.
Extremadura -as I pointed out- is also not a state but a number of cities forced to coalesce to defend, not everything is vacuum and chaos within the Iberian Peninsula, some populations survive and eventually be able to join with others, in the case of Extremadura the isolation from other centers of power has permit its autonomous development, but its lack of heavy weapons and strategic industries does not guarantee subsequent survival.
It's just a matter of time that the expansion of RoS, Castile and Leon, and even Portugal reach the region of Extremadura, which probably gives rise to a new crisis between Spanish Successor States.
I say all this to tell you that in any case these innovations are not intended to be more than names and events in a story set in order to enrich it. A friendly greeting.Tristanbreiker 12:17, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Still, the idea that they could exist makes no sense. The big one near Portugal, ok. But not the others.

And either way, you're missing out the LoN Straits Zone, on a big level.

Lordganon 10:11, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

NO, I am who don´t understand why you follow seems so unreal that in a situation of power vacuum this power would be exercised either by warlords or by other groups as local emergency boards, municipalities etc. In other words a "balkanization". This is happening today and examples you can find everywhere in world and without need of a nuclear war.Tristanbreiker 20:10, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
And I don´t lost the way. Work at the pace I want, that does not pay me for doing this.Tristanbreiker 20:16, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

What on earth is your problem? Most of that made no sense, either.

You are talking about small survivor states, literally sitting right next to far larger expansionist nations. While they could well have been established in the aftermath of DD, for them to still exist in the present makes no sense.

And, as stated: You are missing entirely the LoN Straits Zone.

Lordganon 10:34, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Border Dispute Conference

According to the article there was supposed to be a conference in Jan 2011 to fix the borders. Did it happen or what? Mitro 19:37, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I haven´t much time these days. The peace conference was delayed by the death of the Archbishop and not be reached any agreement, although from January 2011 remain informal negotiations. In reality, despite the delimitation of the areas of expansion, there is a good relationship of proximity between Iberia and Andorra. Having said that, the Iberian Confederation to expand towards the Southeast, towards an outlet to the sea, facing it clearly in a near future to the Republic of Spain. For its part the State of Andorra moves above the vibrancy of the Catalan nationalism and the French revival, which must be added the emergence of a new Occitan nationalism and the problem of refugees from other Nations. The success of Andorra is apparent, as moves on quicksand.Tristanbreiker 19:50, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Monarchism in Spain

Okay, yes, I do get many of the original workers of Spain are already inactive. However, I have a question that has been bugging me for a while.

Monarchism is very widespread in Spain. The constitution of 1978 (note, only 5 years before Doomsday) clearly claimed that the state was to be a constitutional parliamentary monarchy, and was put off to referendum; the constitution was approved with a whopping 88% of the votes, with not a single province not having an absolute majority about the subject. In 1998, this had gone down to 80% and in 2007 to 69% and at last to 48% in 2011, but most of the decrease is "who cares about politics?" rather than "down with the king!!!!".
Furthermore, nowadays there's very few republican parties in Spain and even the leftist ones tend to support the King.
My question here is; why are so many states in post-DD Spain clearly style themselves "democracies", with only the Republic of Spain having a king. Why is this? Did a sudden drop in monarchism happen out of the blue?
I'm sorry if I let myself go too far over my monarchist bias, and whether this is already stated, but it has been nagging me for a long while, as I've already stated, and I need a clarification. Fed (talk) 02:44, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
Well, maybe this is simply because there is not some member of the royalty live :/ According the articles the royal family died during the doomsday, but i don't if someone who belong to another branch of the family in Spain could survive. --Katholico 03:04, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the entire Spanish Royal family, as well as several other branches of the Bourbon family, lived in Madrid. It's a ton of branches of royals, gone. To make the problem even worse, the Carlist claimants, and still more branches of the Bourbons, were wiped out in Paris, Rome, and Naples, along with scattered ones in the USA and Munich.

Basically, to get a candidate, you really have to stretch it. You may have seen how hard the Greek royals were for me to do? This is worse.

That simple recognition would do it for most of these states. The minorities in the north, while having voted for it before, would be unlikely to go with it, too.

Hunting around a bit, these are what I can find, and their relations to the crown, along with where likely to be at DD, who would have lived. Note that they are in all cases more interrelated than I've even going into here, but I'm not going back anymore, lol.

  • Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta, and descendants (married to Prince Casimir of Bourbon-Two Sicilies) in Brazil at DD (Great-granddaughter of Amadeo I, and Great-great-great Granddaughter of Ferdinand VII)
  • Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta, and descendants, in the region of Tuscany at DD and a candidate in the Greek monarch elections (Great-grandson of Amadeo I, and Great-great-great Grandson of Ferdinand VII)
  • Prince Casimir of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, and descendants (married to Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta) in Brazil at DD (Twice over 3x or 4x great-grandson of Charles IV)
  • Prince Alexander of Saxe-Gessaphe, and descendants, in Mexico at DD (5x great-grandson of Charles IV)
  • Prince Johannes of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, and descendants (dead in accident after 1983 otl), in Alps at DD (5x great-grandson of Charles IV
  • Valerie, Margravine of Baden, and descendants, near Lake Constance at DD (twice over 4x great-granddaughter of Charles IV)
  • Archduke Sigismund, Grand Duke of Tuscany, and descendants, in Uruguay at DD (5x great-grandson and 6x great-grandson of Charles IV)
  • Duchess Elisabeth of Württemberg, and descendants, in Ravensburg or Switzerland at DD (nine times over 5x great-granddaughter of Charles III)
  • Prince John Henry of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, and descendants, likely in Innsbruck at DD (dead otl, likely here too) (twice over 4x great-grandson of Charles IV)
  • Princess Maria Isabella of Savoy-Genoa, and descendants, in Brazil at DD (four times over either 5x, 4x, or 3x great-granddaughter of Charles IV)
  • Astrid Christina Antonia Stavro di Santarosa and descendants, possibly in Trieste at DD (granddaughter of Alfonso XIII, cousin of Juan Carlos I) (which are more unlikely to be alive)
  • Prince Pedro Carlos of Orléans-Braganza, and descendants, near Rio at DD (great-great-great grandson of Ferdinand VII, and a cousin of Jaun Carlos I, through his mother) (supposedly a republican, however)
  • Prince Luís of Orléans-Braganza, and descendants, near Rio at DD (four times over 5x or 4x great-grandson of Charles IV)
  • Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, and descendants, along with all relatives descended from his grandmother, in Luxembourg at DD (twice over 4x or 5x great-grandson of Charles IV)

Rough strength of claims, in order:

  • Astrid Christina Antonia Stavro di Santarosa and descendants
  • Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta, and descendants
  • Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta, and descendants (married to Prince Casimir of Bourbon-Two Sicilies)
  • Prince Pedro Carlos of Orléans-Braganza, and descendants
  • Prince Casimir of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, and descendants (married to Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta)
  • Princess Maria Isabella of Savoy-Genoa, and descendants
  • Prince John Henry of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, and descendants
  • Valerie, Margravine of Baden, and descendants
  • Prince Luís of Orléans-Braganza, and descendants
  • Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, and descendants
  • Prince Alexander of Saxe-Gessaphe, and descendants
  • Prince Johannes of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, and descendants
  • Archduke Sigismund, Grand Duke of Tuscany, and descendants
  • Duchess Elisabeth of Württemberg, and descendants

Highest, the cousin, likely dead. Second one... well, other plans and ambitions. So, the crown would fall on the children of Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta, and Prince Casimir of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

And that's..... something like fifth cousins, at best, of Juan Carlos. Very flimsy.

Lordganon 11:56, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Though what I mean is not exactly the lack of pretenders but complaining because of "oh, we're monarchists, but we will just drop all pretense to monarchy because there's no pretender!", which I believe would likely never happen. After all, there's a huge load of dukes around in Spain so to replace the King, especialy after so many Spanish republics style themselves locally rather than a continuation to Spain.

Anyways, yes, the support for the monarchy would decrease in regions without King Juan Carlos to hold them, but still, it would be the majority.Fed (talk) 20:30, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Looking at those dukedoms, virtually all of the ones that have articles there were in Madrid, or Seville, and the few that were not in either were in other nuked places, or areas (read: Portugal, or the Netherlands) that amount to more or less the same thing, lol. And while Seville was not nuked.... well, lets just say that you're not going to find any survivors there, now.

It amounts to virtually the same problem, Fed. I mean, all nobles are concentrated in the capital today, but.... the amount that this is the case for in Spain is a touch ridiculous.

If it helps any, several of those ducal titles, their holders and family of said holders having.... died off, will go to the people I listed up there.

Don't mistake the popularity of monarchism in the form of the king, with it in general, either. Not quite the same thing.

Lordganon 08:49, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

LG, so just for reference (and sorry for the gravedig); do you believe it is possible for some of the counts and dukes to flee Madrid in the advent of Doomsday? Fed (talk) 06:52, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Was a tad bothered you didn't reply in the first place, lol.

To answer the question, no. There's really not much chance of it. Let's put it this way - the king and government didn't get out. There's really no way that the nobles are going to get any kind of message about it.

Lordganon 07:38, April 7, 2012 (UTC)


I read in an old WCBR news headline that the president of  spain has vowed to fight the Islamacation of spain.This mean that muslims are cossing the medteratin form north Afica into Spain. Does anyone think that someone should write a page about a muslim state in granada. To may my knowlage granada surrvied Doomsday.Goldwind1 (talk) 22:15, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect - he said that about the Southern Provinces. The southern province of atl Spain is Western Sahara - an area where it would indeed be a problem.

Doesn't mean anyone crossing anything at all. Heck, they'd be better off in North Africa here.

A small state does exist in Granada today. But it sure as heck isn't Muslim.

Lordganon (talk) 11:19, May 1, 2014 (UTC)


My article Extremadura just got canon. Can the oowner include the nation on the page (link and stuff). Andreas.martonosy (talk) 17:52, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

...You know you could just do that yourself, right? Lordganon (talk) 11:38, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Nope, I thought I needed some permission from Tristan, since it looked like he is (or was) the owner. Should I be ashamed of myself right now? Andreas.martonosy (talk) 18:43, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

No. Lordganon (talk) 00:17, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Phew, thought I'd sink in the ground. Anyway, when I'm ready with at least Nitra, Znojmo and Aragon, I'll create articles for Braganca and Olot. I saw a debate about the existence of Olot, though... Andreas.martonosy (talk) 11:03, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Look at that map - take it with a grain of salt, it was made with little to no idea of a lot of things - and there is really no way Olot could actually exist. In the overall context, it just does not make sense. Lordganon (talk) 11:34, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

It would rather be part of Andorra, then? Also, would Braganca be plausible? Andreas.martonosy (talk) 13:09, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, part of Andorra.

Baganca is more or less plausible - that is probably the best area of Portugal (aside from the islands) for something. By far.

Lordganon (talk) 11:49, March 30, 2015 (UTC)

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