Alternative History

Something to consider - socialism may well arrive more peacefully than you portray. If the Communists take a majority in at least 2/3 of the states, they could potentially alter the constitution dramatically via a set of amendments. To quote from Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof,

That method of proposing amendments bolded in this quote has never been used in OTL. However, many Constitutional scholars believe that if it ever were invoked, the said Convention might very well radically alter the constitution, or even create a new Constitution (that is, after all, how our present Constitution came about to replace the Articles of Confederation)

This method could still result in a modified form of your Second Civil War, however, in this case, the secessionists might very well be states refusing to accept the new Constitution. Thus, they would see themselves as the defenders of the Constitution -- Nik 05:12, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I was thinking of something similar, in the form of the great leap forward. --Henneth 15:32, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mostly dead, I know, but...

Not to be a troublemaker, but in OTL, at least, Eugene Debs died in 1926, a few weeks shy of his 71st birthday. Even with an earlier POD that has Debs living a few years longer, his age would make him a slightly impractical leader of a revolution by the early 1930s. The standard-bearer for the socialist/communist movement in America during this period would probably have been William Z. Foster, the general secretary of the CPUSA in the late 1920s and early 1930s. The thing is, at the start of the Depression, the communist movement in America lacked a powerful central figure like Lenin (or Debs, for that matter). Foster was head of the CPUSA, but the CPUSA wasn't the only socialist party in operation at the time: it had split from the Socialist Party a decade or so earlier. While Foster generally stuck closely by Comintern policy and was cozy with the USSR, you could concievably have some fun with Norman Thomas, the then-leader of the Socialist Party, who emphasized the differences between socialism and communism, and was openly critical of Soviet-style communism, or even Earl Browder, who was Foster's successor as general secretary of the CPUSA and who advocated a policy of working within existing American politics and was eventually (1947 OTL) expelled from the party because of it. Neither Thomas and Browder were revolutionaries in OTL, mind you, but a much more severe Depression with less hope for recovery might have changed that in either of that. In any case, a Thomas or Browder-led USSA would likely be less tight with the USSR than a Foster-led USSA. Alternatively, Thomas and the Socialist Party has some interesting parallels with the Mensheviks, and I can see Foster and Browder developing a Stalin/Trotsky-style rivalry. – Seancdaug 06:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Less grounded in reality than "It Can't Happen Here"

No offense, but I think Sinclair Lewis was closer to the mark.

A devastated USA wouldn't "go Red"...but fascist.

As presented here, I don't think you'd get the desired result. As hopeless as Hoover was, my personal opinion is that he would need to be a hell of a lot worse to spark a true revolution, and, in any case, FDR was hardly the only progressive politician out there. In many respects, FDR was a protege of Al Smith, the 1928 Democratic candidate. And Smith did try to recapture the Dem nomination in 1932.
I'd agree that, if you did manage to get things to the point of revolution, fascism seems more probable than socialism. But I'm not convinced that it's a lock, really, since I can't really see a convincing fascist leader in the US at the time. Only Huey Long comes close, and, for all his faults, Long was no Mussolini or Hitler. The communists were better organized at the time, but they were already fighting against semi-institutionalized anticommunism. But one doesn't need to go very far back to change that.
The latest POD I can think that would achieve the desired result would be the First Red Scare of the late 1910s. Even if you don't handwave the entire scare away, if you merely reduce the number of high-profile incidents (the May Day Riots of 1919, for example), or ensure that people like Galleani or Sacco and Vanzetti are associated with anarchism and not socialism, then communism/socialism can remain some semblance of respectability through the 1920s. Not that they'd be winning national elections, of course, but that they keep a high enough profile that they'd be in a situation to lead opposition during the Depression.
The benefit of this is that a stronger CPUSA (or equivalent) would probably also split the Democratic vote in 1932, and the best way to really shake things up badly is to have a reelected Herbert Hoover sitting in the White House during the worst years of the Depression, not to mention the start of the Dust Bowl. – Seancdaug 07:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


the flag of the USSA of the over-zelous coldwar comic series 'This Godless Communism'

And a design of my own


Due to the lack of work done on this TL, I'm going to adopt it. Does anyone have a problem with that? Mitro 22:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

What About Upton Sinclair?

Sinclair was a socialist too you know, and He could have succeded Debs

If you read the TL so far you would have seen that Sinclair overthrew the governor of California and later had the state declare independence after the USSA cedes territory to Mexico. I plan to have him defeated but going into exile in another country. Mitro 16:32, November 5, 2010 (UTC)


Debs could die as in OTL except the Asylum part


he could succed debs, but would probably could not because of his relation to TR, but his personality could be altered differently from OTL


Is there somebody like Leon Trostky? I know he is dead in this timeline but somebody who is like him and shares similar chracteristics to him