Some thoughts

  • British invasion of Louisiana takes place
  • French revolution would probably still happen, but with a greater North American theatre
  • Texas and California probably become British
  • Transylvania, Vandalia and Charlotia/Illinois become fully established colonies
  • The Amerinds are probably treated better, and some of their nations (Iroquois, Five Civilised Tribes, Sioux tribes etc) might become autonomous provinces of British North America.
  • Alaska is captured by the British during the Crimean War.

How are those? --Sikulu 11:21, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Politicians in London were trying to prevent westward expansion; they forbid settlement west of the Appalachian Mountains (this supports the Amerind Nations suggestion you have). This restriction proved impossible to enforce. I'm not sure how this would be resolved, but an invasion of Louisiana seems unlikely. Unless . . . if England goes to war with Spain then they could invade Louisiana (which was Spanish after the 7-Years-War, they also could claim Texas, California, etc. OR if Spain goes to war with France then Britain might buy Louisiana from Spain (this would give Britain more land and finance an enemy of France - double bonus).
Britain would not have "captured" Alaska in the Crimean War, but could have it given to her in the Treaty of Paris of 1856. But we are ahead of ourselves here: if there are no Napoleonic Wars then there may well be no Crimean War.
I don't know enough about the French Revolution to guess how it would really be affected by failed American Revolution. We need to figure this out before the timeline can describe the 19th century.
Thanks for the input. This is an Open Time Line and if you want to add pages or edit the existing article you are more than welcome. --AirshipArmada 20:38, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
A little known fact was that there were already invasion plans for Louisiana in the works. Obviously they were scrapped when convicts could no longer be sent.
The Crimean War was due to Russian expansionism. Since it would affect the balance of power in Europe, Britain (and probably France) would try to attack Russia.
The reason Russia sold Alaska to the US was to stop the UK from capturing it.
One possibility for France is that it becomes a constitutional monarchy, fights a fifth French and Indian War with Britain over Louisiana, and (again) gets its ass kicked.
Of course, something like the Holy Roman Empire would still exist. Its possible that the Emperor Francis II could restructure it at somepoint.
It is possible that the Hudson's Bay Company could buy Alaska off Russia. Either that, or it is just another Russian Province.
Naturally, Poland would (probably) have been partitoned to death, and stayed like that.
It is possible that something along the lines of the Albany Congress (with some alterations) leads to the formation of the United Provinces of America (British version of USA).

I'd be happy to provide input on this at any point, as I've done something like this (although the POD is the British Government accepting a modified form of the Albany Congress, due to Pitt the Elder's being more healthy).

If anyone wants advice, just ask on my talk page. --Sikulu 08:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

For Want of a Nail

Has anyone read this? I've read a summary timeline of it, and it looks like the beginning of this timeline is going to be simmilar to the begining of FWoaN. --Sikulu 12:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Continued Outline (all subject to change)

American Revolutionary War still takes place but fails!

ARW could become long protracted guerrilla war with British controlling the ports and Lee controlling the country.
Perhaps Lee is forced further west and makes some sort of common cause with the Mohawk or all of the Iroquois Confederation.
Unlikely, since the Iroquois were pro-British during the ARW *here*, and had been in the four French and Indian Wars.
Agreed. Also the tribes tended to join the side they thought would win - in this case that would be the British. Oh well.--AirshipArmada 20:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Unsuccessful American Revolution = no successful French Revolution

Prussia (et all) kicks ass at Valmy, march on Paris, reinstate Louis XVI, stay there for a bit untill things quiet down, then go home. --Sikulu 13:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

No French Revolution = No Emperor Napoleon or Napolionic Wars.

Britain goes to war the the Netherlands a few times.

Russia goes to war with the Ottoman Empire a few times.

Stray thoughts:

Irish (and other) immigrants don't go to America (because it is still English).

Indeed. European immigrants need somewhere else to go that has jobs, basic freedoms and a reasonable form of government. I don't know where that is here.

English prisoners go to America instead of Australia.

I don't know about that. If they hadn't used it as a penal colony, I don't know whether the British would have bothered to settle Australia - at the time, it seemed there were few resources and little point to establishing a colony so far from England, on the doorstep of the Raging Yellow Hordes. Still, I guess it's possible - Virginia did recieve some convicts. Cprhodesact 01:14, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Lafayette does not become a hero in ARW.

After failed ARW English troops will be garrisoned in north-eastern US and will try to enforce the Proclimation Line, slowing westward expansion.

Probably not so much, since the Proclimation only resticted colonisation beyond the appalacians. I'd think that the 13 colonies, plus the Floridas, Nova Scotia and Quebec might be the target for more dense settlement. --Sikulu 13:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

England will tax America to pay for failed ARW.

America will eventually achieve economic independence if not political independence.

Possibly become a state in personal union with GB --Sikulu 13:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Or another attempted American Revolution a couple of decades after 1776. If Britain wins ARW they do not learn to treat their colonies with greater respect. They continue bad policies in America, Canada, India, etc--AirshipArmada 20:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

No Emperor Napoleon means that Germany remains very fragmented.

And under Austrian Domination. It is possible that someform of restructuring occurs, to reduce the number of states to something around 100 (or fewer). --Sikulu 13:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

French/British hostilities may occur again in North America.

Most likely a fifth French and Indian War. Britian captures various French colonies, and keeps Louisiana and St. Pierre and Miquelon, and returns Guadeloupe. --Sikulu 08:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
After the 7 Years War, Britain owns Canada and all North America East of the Mississippi. Spain own all North America West of the Mississippi. In OTL Napoleon got Louisiana back from Spain and then sold it to America. In this time-line Spain probably(?) keeps Louisiana and therefore France doesn't have any interest in the North American continent, so there would not be another French and Indian War (but there could be British/French war in the Caribbean). --AirshipArmada 20:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Napoleon was an opportunist - maybe he shows up in a French/English war in North America?

Then Corsica first had to become part of France -- 20:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
France still get Corsica in 1768 - Washington's death wouldn't prevent that.--AirshipArmada 21:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

If King Louis XV of France lives longer, and thus institutes more reforms, which could be continued by Louis XVI, we could avoid the French Revolution almost entirely. --Sikulu 13:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Possibly a three way war with GB Russia and Spain for the Oregon territory

I'm still not sure what to do about Oregon, myself. --Sikulu 07:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Russians would proably stay out of the war if it does happen (the Brits get Louisiana right?) but with the English and spanish still retaining their colonies then it could be pretty interesting. If the English win they get, besides Oregon, Texas or California.
I'm still not sure what happens to Spanish America. It's a toss-up between them (Spain) keeping it, but they become dominions, to them becoming independent somehow. --Sikulu 08:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Liberia doesn't get set up obviously. But maybe after the slaves are freed throughout the empire there is a movement to re-settle them in Africa. Where? I don't know but it will be either named Edwardia or Victoria.

I made what is Liberia *here*, part of Sierra Leone *there*. I think that's where most of the repatriated slaves would go to from the British Empire. --Sikulu 10:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Assumably there are no world wars, although the colonial arrangements certainly could have started one. This means no LoN or UN. And no massive technological surges expirenced; A-bombs, RADAR, and possibly even tanks are wiped out.

Well, there probably aren't any "total" wars, although there would be quite a few more localised wars that spread over a larger area. Arguably though, several wars could be classed as "world" wars, (see here). The technologies would probably be developed over a much longer period, with far more theoretical work done on them (which might actually be a good thing, since the scientists and engineers could work out the problems over a long period of time, and not have to rush anying into service before its been proparly tested). --Sikulu 09:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

If the Spanish do not build border forts then there could be significant Anglo settlement of Mexico and Louisiana.

That could be worked into a possible independence movement in Louisiana (and the reason it becomes independent of the rest of New Spain). --Sikulu 14:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... there seem to be no republics. Perhaps a more apt title would be "Constitutional Monarchy World".

There are republics, but where they are called republics (i.e. the Netherlands, they are actually monarchies, or they are all a part of the HRE. --Sikulu 15:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


I'm not too sure how active this timeline is currently, but I do have a question. Why didn't Ireland become part of the United Kingdom? --NuclearVacuum 17:40, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


Can I edit the article on the Holy Roman Empire, to include a form a Legislature (Senate, House, Prime Minister) thing.

Lack of Content

Although this is one of the wiki's featured timelines, there has been a great lack of content in it. However, its users have not improved on it and have most likely left the wiki forever. Since it does not contain much content, shouldn't it be removed of tis title? RandomWriterGuy 22:30, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Mexican Louisiana

Without the US, it would not be in French interests to regain Louisiana and Louisiana would be part of Mexico. Fjihr (talk) 18:08, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

Adoption Proposal

Hello, all interested parties.

I, Stepintime would like to adopt the collabrative project "Washington Shot at Murdering Town!", I have previously two contacted two original editors, as well as (to the best of my knoweldege) the original creator, two months ago. I have recevied no reply.

I intend to adopt the project to become the caretaker, if my adoption is accepted by the community this will by all means contiune to be a collabrative project, whose outside ideas will be accepted. Guidelines on properly contributing, obeying established rules of community timelines and conduct among editors will be established. 

Content from the original creator will be entirely preserved though the content on the portal page may be moved onto its own page possibly later. Almost all prexisting content from users will contiune to exist. The only exception to this, may be  the particular article Anglo-Asian Wars  due to lack of content and some formating on existing nation artices. However, the ideas previous users had in mind will not be abridged, due to QQS and QQA collabroative rules.

I wish to adopt this project, because even while abaonded for years the concept is rich and can flower into creating an entirely new world, primairly the questions Washington Shot at Murdering Town ask, are "How much can the change of one person change the wider world, aganist historical trends"? and "How would the world be shaped without the United States, with a different modern British Empire, where liberal ideals in the early 19th century diminish? I have worked with good faith on this timeline for months and will continue too regardless of whether I am granted adoption permission, but I wish to use this adoption to spring this project forward and reignite community collabroation.

Thanks for reading, and considering


Stepintime (talk) 01:50, February 5, 2017 (UTC)


Having been within three days of the proposal without any objections I have now adopted this project according to the Wika's adoption policy. 

I thank the community and the TSPTF for their acceptance.

Stepintime (talk) 23:42, February 8, 2017 (UTC)

Good luck!!!. Glad someone adopted WSMT timeline. Regards --JorgeGG (talk) 23:52, February 8, 2017 (UTC)


Firstly, I thank the Alt history community for following my adoptation.

So far, I have had made some limited development including,

  • A complete reformatting of the portal page
  • Organzation of articles, and the original content into a history gazette
  • A brief introduction given to all the major empires
  • Conceputalizing of the modern day order through the Global Security Confernence
  • A fleshed out modern history of China where a westernized Qing Dynasty dramatically changes course from OTL in the 19th century. And some exploration to how this effects China's neigbhors. Japan for example spends most of this ATL being a poor backward country,

Next on the agenda:

  • Get to the heart of the timeline- work on the article for British United Provinces of America
  • Work on British article
  • Get to making a new world map, and some imperial maps.
  • Create a data base for both the fictional and real people in this timleine
  • Work on all of North America.
  • Write some general world history.
  • Elaborate the Pan-European War idea suggested by another contributer.  - The German Holy Roman Empire- which was never destroyed bu Napolean in this ATL, will attack Russia in the early 1950's as a Catholic reliogious war to liberate religous kindred from the Eastern Orthodoxy. Without the United States, the world becomes a much more conservative place. As liberal revolutions are fewer and far between the world- even with modern technology never fully abondons mercantlism and still think in old world terms. Ethnic- Nationalism therefore is not as prevelant and is often redirected into put new enegy into old ideas. While engrossing most of Europe (most likely not England) the war's moral character is entirely different from that of OTL world wars. Only by coordinating support by the people on Russia's western border does Germany succeed. Nor does the Holy Roman Germany aim to annex/destroy all of the country- but only to tame Russian power and to build Cathloic religous ferver.
  • Write pieces on the legacy of the failed American Revolution from a perspective of the people living at that time

Bottom line is that this project in my hand is being guided by cyldical ideas on how civilzation develops. The survival of the world's European empires without the U.S also means there are also much fewer countries. And ultimently leading to a fewer wars, centralized empires while greedy come to fear the results of wars and have little immediete need when they all have abudnant natural resources. I am trying to think of the different technolgoical and cultural pace created by such transformations which is still up for decision- except with the princpal that these trends are much more effected by the hands of powerful adminstrators.

Keep in mind- that the social expereince of what life is like for the people living in this atlernate world, as well as the physclogical differences of people in this ATL are the high priority.

Remember the timeline is open for suggestions and contributions from all users.

Stepintime (talk) 15:31, June 23, 2017 (UTC)

Benedict Arnold

I saw that Stepintime updated their profile and took a look and saw reference to this timeline so I decided to take a gander with the aim of determining if I may partake in renovation and expansion. This will be, if I'm accepted, the first collaborative timeline I've joined (I've created a few but not [attempted to] joined any till now). I've searched and searched for reference to Benedict Arnold and then searched again and found it; I'd like permission to create the article on Benedict Arnold utilizing information found in the Armerican Revolt article. I was hoping to see him presented like he is in the timeline and am pleased with it; enough to put together an article for the People category if the community will have me. Baron Joshua (talk) 21:20, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

You would be welcome to! 

Sorry for the late response.

Stepintime (talk) 20:43, March 3, 2019 (UTC)

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