Treaty of Kuala Lumpur (Principia Moderni IV Map Game)

The Treaty of Kuala Lumpur was a treaty proposed to end the Great Eastern War of 1463-1468.

Bahmanid-Bengali Demands

1. The Kingdom of Burma and Bengal will be free to expand into Burma.
2. Bengal will receive the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
3. No Majapahit vessel will be allowed west of the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
4. No more Gunturist missionaries will be sent into Khmer or Indian lands, and all Gunturists within shall be deported to Majapahit.
5. Majapahit will end its oppression of Muslims.
6. Majapahit will pay reparations of 100 warships, 10 to be given to Delhi, and the rest equally distributed between the Bahmanids, Bengal, and Khmer.
7. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.

Khmer Demands

1. Khmer will be allowed to keep the Malay peninsula, the Islands from Bali to Timor, as well as Sumatra and the smaller Islands to either side of it. (Willing to negotiate with Delhi on the western Islands)
2. Brunei will be established, its territory being former Majapahit territory on Borneo and Celebes. Its ruling family will be determined by all participating nations who request a say in the matter.
3. The rest of Majapahit will be mutually held by all four members of the coalition for a period of twenty years. After this mutual occupation is finished, a five year leeway period will be given for the occupiers to determine a permanent status for the area.

• ​I'm going to go ahead and cross out the idea the Indian states have any control of Indonesia, considering Majapihut still has naval superiority.

1. After the 20-25 year occupation of remaining Majapahit territory, Indian activity in that area will cease - the three Indian states will not interfere with matters in the region, and Khmer, in turn, will not interfere with Indian matters.
2. Condition to Demand Four: If Delhi or another Indian state does keep territory in Majapahit, they will be allowed to continue their control over that region - but only that region.

Delhavi Demands

1. Delhi shall receive Sumatra, and the chain of islands east of Java, from Bali to Timor

• No. You can have the Islands West of Sumatra if you really want them, but any thing more is frankly implausible.

1. Brunei, composing the former Majapahit territory in Borneo and Celebes, shall be released as a Delhavi protectorate.

• Not a Delhavi Protectorate - that is again, implausible. However, you do get to chose the royal family, maybe along with the other Indian states, as I, frankly, do not care.

1. Majapahit will pay reparations of 100 warships, equally distributed between Delhi, Bahmani, Bengal, and Khmer.
2. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.

Compromise Proposal

1. The Kingdom of Burma and the Bengal Sultanate will be free to expand into Burma.
2. Bengal will receive the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
3. No Majapahit vessel will be allowed west of the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
4. The Khmer will annex Malaya, Sumatra, and all the small islands around them.
5. The Sultanate of Brunei will be restored, comprising of all Majapahit territories on the island of Borneo. It will be in dynastic union with Delhi.
6. No other state may take any land on or surrounding the island of Borneo.
7. The Bahmanids will not interfere in whatever Delhi chooses to do to Marwar and Mewar.
8. No more Gunturist missionaries will be sent into Khmer or Indian lands, and all Gunturists within shall be deported to Majapahit.
9. Majapahit will end its oppression of Muslims.
10. Majapahit will pay reparations of 100 warships, 50 to be given to Delhi, and the rest equally distributed between the Bahmanids, Bengal, and Khmer.
11. With the exception of Borneo, the Indian states will not interfere in Southeast Asian affairs, and Khmer will not interfere in those of the Indian States or their vassals.
12. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.

Majapahit Counter-Offer

1. The Khmer Empire will annex Malaya.
2. Neither side will pay reparations over anything.
3. There will be peace for 20 years.
4. The Status Quo regarding Gunturism will remain.
5. Neither side is allowed to send missionaries to the other's territories.
6. Neither side will interfere in the other's affairs.
7. Failure to abide by these terms will result in the complete destruction of the Islam from the face of Nusantara.

Final Terms (outdated)

1. The Kingdom of Burma and the Bengal Sultanate will be free to expand into Burma.
2. Bengal will receive the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
3. No Majapahit vessel will be allowed west of the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
4. The Khmer will annex Malaya, Sumatra, and all the small islands around them.
5. The Sultanate of Brunei will be restored, comprising of all Majapahit territories on the island of Borneo. It will be in dynastic union with Delhi.
6. No other state may take any land on or surrounding the island of Borneo.
7. The Bahmanids will not interfere in whatever Delhi chooses to do to Marwar and Mewar.
8. No more Gunturist missionaries will be sent into Khmer or Indian lands, and all Gunturists within shall be deported to Majapahit.
9. Majapahit will end its oppression of Muslims.
10. Majapahit will pay reparations of 100 warships, 50 to be given to Delhi, and the rest equally distributed between the Bahmanids, Bengal, and Khmer.
11. With the exception of Borneo, the Indian states will not interfere in Southeast Asian affairs, and Khmer will not interfere in those of the Indian States or their vassals.
12. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.

Mod's proposal for terms

1. The Kingdom of Burma and the Bengal Sultanate will be free to expand into Burma.
2. The Khmer will annex Malaya
3. No more Gunturist missionaries will be sent into Khmer or Indian lands, and all Gunturists within shall be deported to Majapahit.
4. Majapahit will end its oppression of Muslims.
5. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.
6. The Indian states will not interfere in Southeast Asian affairs, and the Southeast Asian states will not interfere in those of the Indian States or their vassals.

Majapahit Counter-Offer 2

1. The Kingdom of Burma and the Bengal Sultanate will be free to expand into Burma, but not into the rest of Southeast Asia.
2. The Khmer will annex Malaya.
3. The Majapahit Empire will allow Muslims to worship in specifically designated regions.
4. The Gunturists will be allowed to practice their beliefs west of Bengal, in some areas of Burma and in the Laccadives.
5. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.
6. The Indian states will not interfere in Southeast Asian affairs, and the Southeast Asian states will not interfere in those of the Indian States or their vassals.
7. Failure to abide by these terms will result in the violator being dealt with severely.

Bahmanid-Majapahit Compromise (Actual Final Terms)

1. The Kingdom of Burma and the Bengal Sultanate will be free to expand into Burma, but not into the rest of Southeast Asia.
2. The Khmer will annex Malaya.
3. The Majapahit Empire will allow Muslims to worship in specifically designated regions.
4. The Gunturists will be allowed to practice their beliefs in Ladakh, the Kingdom of Burma, and the Laccadives.
5. There will be peace between all signatories for 20 years.
6. The Indian states will not interfere in Southeast Asian affairs, and the Southeast Asian states will not interfere in those of the Indian States or their vassals.
7. The Andaman Neutral Zone will be maintained, as described in the Treaty of Malacca.
8. Failure to abide by these terms will result in the violator being dealt with severely.

Signatories

• Sultan Ismail Shah of the Bahmanid Sultanate - The Guardian of Forever (talk)
• King Sulka of Khmer - Firesofdoom
• [x] of the Delhi Sultanate - --Orange (talk)
• Sultan Rukunuddin Barbak Shah of the Bengal Sultanate - guten tag anschlüss 13:37, September 25, 2016 (UTC)
• Gustimaharaja Wuwamba Yuda of the Majapahit Empire - Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 12:52, September 25, 2016 (UTC)
• Binnya Dala, King of Burma - The Guardian of Forever (talk)
• Sultan Hassan III of the Maldives - The Guardian of Forever (talk)
• King Susenphaa of Assam - guten tag anschlüss 13:37, September 25, 2016 (UTC)
• [x] of Himalaya - --Orange (talk)
• [x] of Kangra - --Orange (talk)

Discussion (OOC)

Orange and Fires haven't reached an agreement yet, and I just wanted to get the two nations who have agreed on things up here. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 01:30, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I put up a counter-proposal to what Fires proposed, he is yet to reply to it. --Orange (talk) 02:00, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I would just like to quickly point out that because Majapahit still continues to retain naval superiority, you guys are in absolutely no position to demand any of the Majapahit island territories such as in Sumatra or Borneo. If I had to compare this Treaty with something, it would be if, let's say, Majapahit conquered the Andaman islands and then demanded parts of India in the Treaty. Until or unless Majapahits navy is defeated, it is impossible to seize their islands. You guys only won in Malaya cause it was connected by land to Khmer territories; allowing for a direct path. How can you demand Sumatra or any Majapahit island when Indian troops can't even reach it?                The night is dark and full of terrors. 

How does it make any sense that Khmer would agree and help to enforce demands that clearly disenfranchises its own people and religion? The Khmer empire has no mulims in it, yet why does it actually demand creating a Muslim state out of Majapihut territory? This entire conflict should be retconned -Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess 11:15, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Rimp. Orange, Fires, you need to moderate your demands. @ Nate: Fires turned because he thought Majapahit would lose the war (which isn't an unreasonable assumption), and its not like his neighbors being Gunturist is any different to a Buddhist Khmer than their neighbors being Muslim. Actually, considering the popular unrest in Khmer against Gunturists, it moght be more reasonable to side against the Gunturists. (And the mods have no problem with an alliance between Christian Aragon and Muslim Gurkanis.) The Guardian of Forever (talk) 11:22, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Islam and Christainity are both Abrahamic, therefore related religions. Islam allying with Buddhist nations is completely unreasonable and has never happened to a significant degree anywhere in history. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess 11:27, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

1. Khmer is not allied w/the Indian states and never was. Fires saw it as an attack of opportunity, and also saving himself (as he thought Ace would lose the war, but Ace would attack him if he stayed neutral). 2. True, but we all know which of the two pairs has had the most conflict between them. 3. Someone living before France supported the Protestants in the 30 Year's War could say the same thing about Catholics and Protestants. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 11:38, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I would quickly like to point out that the Gurkani are not in any sort of alliance with Aragon                The night is dark and full of terrors. 

I think what Guardian meant with an alliance between Aragon and the Gurkanis is the Compact of Isksenderun, which Aragon participated in. --Orange (talk) 20:26, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Scraw has approved the 'compromise proposal as realistic, and it was an unconditional surrender victory. As Fires, Orange, LM, and myself have already agreed on it, it will be the final treaty. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 02:34, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't it stated that, since you lost the sea battle, you could only take Malaya? I am that guy (talk) 02:38, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

@IATG: Fires argued that the short distance and many small islands between Malaya and Sumatra made it possible, and I asked Scraw to look over the treaty, and he agreed that it was realistic. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 02:41, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

That's ridiculous. There's no bridges, and the water's too deep to wade across, so the only way to get to islands like Sumatra is by ship. Which means it's kinda hard to enforce your control of Sumatra if you don't have naval superiority. I am that guy (talk) 02:48, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Well, that's Fires' problem. Scraw approved, so... The Guardian of Forever (talk) 02:50, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Then Scraw needs to change his mind or be overruled. Allowing people to take islands when they don't have naval superiority sets a dangerous precedent. I am that guy (talk)

Yeah this Treaty makes little to no sense. By this logic, France for example could essentially conquer Britanny and then demand parts of England as concessions in the Treaty as well. Explain to me why Majapahit would cede Sumatra or Borneo when those areas were neither conquered in this war nor can the invading forces reach them. Heck Khmer even lost the only naval battle they fought in this war.

Imo this problem should be solved with a proper discussion between the respective players and the Moderators.

               The night is dark and full of terrors. 

I agree. Fires is just putting rubbish! No way I am signing this treaty or abiding by Scrawland's ruling. If anything, he should just piss off with his bias! Through Stars We Rise. (Welcome to the Universe). 09:57, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

I would bring this up with Orange and Fires, who demanded said terms. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 11:25, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Alright people, chill your horses. AM is coming in with his ruling. Alright, so... I will react to the final terms displayed here. Following complaints:

• The Khmer cannot and would not be able to get Sumatra. The islands haven't been reached and the islands are core regions of the Majahapits. The islands from the Strait of Singapore to Pulau Singkep are free for grabbing, as well as maybe PARTS of Sumatra. In no way will they be able to hold the entirety of Sumatra.
• I need an explanation why Delhi would get a PU over Brunei. They are the farthest away of all this mega-coalition from Brunei, thus making me QUESTION if this is even possible. Independence can be surely made, but not a PU.
• The numbers on the ship are too high and too harsh, and Delhi (who is land-based) has no real incentive for these 50 ships. You all think in too big numbers)
• If you deport all Gunturists back to Majahapit, why not take the Mussies for yourself goddammit? (This is more of a suggestion than a complaint.

So yeah. No whole Sumatra and no Brunei in PU with Delhi. Everything else looks fine (besides the numbers). This is my verdict and my ruling, people. Wolves

Your ruling seems a bit fine but there are still issues that you didn't address or in some cases overlooked.

• You didn't mention the establishment of the Sultanate of Brunei at all. How is it possible for the Indian states and Khmer to secure the release of the entirety of Borneo when they cannot even access Borneo. Same is the case with Sumatra.. These are all regions that are core parts of the Majapahit Empire, and somehow they would just release them? I have a question. What exactly compels Majapahit to release those states? The threat of an imminent invasion? No, because Khmer/Indians can't perform a naval invasion. The threat of a naval blockade? No, because the Majapahit have a far superior navy.
• You mentioned that all the islands in the Singapore Straits are up for grabs, completely ignoring the fact that the Khmer/Indian states are in no position to even mlunt an attack upon those islands with Singapore itself being the sole exception.
• Once again, the 'tribute' imposed on Majapahit makes little sense. Imagine Nazi Germany imposing a tribute on the UK back in WW2 despite lacking the naval capability to actually attack the British core areas. This is basically the exact same scenario... Why would Majapahit pay tribute? Can anyone force them to pay the tribute? No. This isn't even Germany Post WW1 where you can occupy the Rhineland and demand payment. In this case, Majapahits naval superiority means that the Khmer/Indian troops can't even touch the Majapahit core islands.

               The night is dark and full of terrors. 

Not to mention Majapahit naval superiority would mean Bahmanids would be unable to enforce their annexation of the Andaman and Nicobars. I am that guy (talk) 13:32, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

I will concede that a few things were not mentioned, because we can't do anything if no one comes to an agreement. Again, I agree with y'all (except for the small islands south of the Strait of Singapore) but we need to come to an agreement. My proposal was just a compromise. It wasn't the most realistic solution. The Indian players are stubborn. Wolves

IATG is correct. The Treaty even states that no Majapahit vessel will be allowed East of the Andaman and Nicobar islands because they know that Majapahit naval superiority allows Ace to essentially 'control' the Bay of Bengal. Yet somehow Bengal can annex the Andaman and Nicobar islands.

If the Indian players are stubborn, Ace can just refuse to sign the Treaty and practically impose a Uti possidetis. Because at the moment, the Indian/Khmer forces have only conquered Malay and no more. Why no more? Because Majapahit naval superiority prevents them from doing anything else.

               The night is dark and full of terrors. 

Mk, here's my two cents on all this quibbling and controversy. Yes, I do agree that the Maja have naval superiority. They would greatly hinder the coalition from advancing into Sumatra. For this, I am willing for the coalition to give up its claims to the Maja's islands (except Singapore, which our superior army can still take). However, the Maja are far from making any gains. They haven't gotten anywhere north of Malacca. It was pointless of them to send their lesser army into Cambodia, and the attack was for the most part repulsed. They may have a large navy preventing us from moving into Indonesia, but there's a catch to that too: the coalition's superior army prevents the Maja from conquering anything on the continent. This pretty much makes this war a stalemate, leaning towards a coalition victory since we captured Malaya. --Orange (talk) 17:40, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Considering Maja naval superiority, it would probably be best to leave the peace at Khmer taking the Malayan peninsula, and a status quo regarding everything else. I am that guy (talk) 20:18, September 23, 2016 (UTC)

Oh btw. Nope, Majapahit vessels WILL BE allowed west of Sumatra, like it or not. You need that trade, and I hope you do know that, Indian players. Wolves

Ace and I agreed to end this mess, I mean war with the new set of terms I posted. The Guardian of Forever (talk) 02:31, September 25, 2016 (UTC)