Alternative History

With your blessing seeing as your the Sultan of the South I have devised the following plan: finish Joplin & get it graduated, then start Hot Springs & graduate that finally I will begin to lay the frame work for an alliance between the four. So long as you don't object I'd like to implement the plan GOPZACK 03:12, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Go for it.BrianD 03:16, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

This a tentative map I have made for the future alliance, it shows Kentucky Joplin. Hot springs Cape Girardeau & Broken Bow as they stand now. The dark green is new territory that would be acquired in order to complete the alliance. GOPZACK 20:24, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Future Alliance.png

Since Viginia and Kentucky pretty much have an alliance allready, any such alliance between the citystates and Knetucky would naturally include Virgnia. And I thought up the name "Dixie Alliance" because I thought it represented the deep south region well. If you can figure out a better name, I'm all ears.

Yankovic270 21:33, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

I can defiantly see a regional alliance between Virginia & Kentucky, but with that said I don't see one involving Kentucky Virginia and the city-states for three reasons. For one the people of Joplin, Cape Girardeau, Broken Bow & Hot Springs all are rather weary about Virginia because they were a military dictatorship until very recently where as Kentucky has always been a democracy. Secondly Kentucky discovered Joplin, Cape Girardeau, Broken Bow & Hot Springs and assisted the LoN introduce them to the world. Thirdly like Brian said a large alliance is a good 10-20 years off. GOPZACK 20:20, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yank, what possible problem would Virginia have with an ally making alliances with other city states in Missouri and Arkansas???BrianD 20:50, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Anywho I'm just curious as to what feedback you have on the map, of course it is rough and needs to be touched up a bit but I think it gives an accurate idea of what could possibly be. Also while studying the map it occurred to me that Texas and Kentucky may very well link up in the near future, I could see a trade deal of sorts coming down the pike, how about you? GOPZACK 21:37, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

It looks fine to me. How well Kentucky can govern that much territory might be a question; then again, the US was governing vast portions of the West in the 19th century. Official relations with Texas can happen now, but trade will be far off, maybe by 2015. BrianD 22:41, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

So I'm just about done with Broken Bow and my next big project to tackle is Hot Springs. I would like to know what ideas you had for the area aside from what is in the report on the south you created. Thank you for your input! GOPZACK 07:23, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

None, really (but maybe my mind is blank on the subject at the moment). I like your ideas regarding the alliance among the Arkansas/Oklahoma/Missouri communities, though I would pay attention to what everyone else is commenting on the subject. Realism. Anyway, I think I wrote that Hot Springs overthrew a bunch of racist warlords with the help of Joplin. Now Joplin is 200 miles away, but that doesn't preclude there being people from Joplin who could help the Hot Springs resistance craft a strategy to overthrow the warlords. Probably former military people w/combat experience. Hot Springs probably was stable enough to form a regional government, warlords (or whatever their equivalents would be in Arkansas) rose up, took over at least part of the town, and the resistance fought them and defeated them. Write it up and we'll see how it looks. BrianD 07:32, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

SO thus far I have written up to the first racist government getting overthrown with help from Joplin advisors and a small contingent of troops. I also had a thought about the towns of Hope and Prescott. I believe Texarkana was blown sky high but I doubt they would be struck with a powerful warhead. If it is possible for some type of small city states to form in Hope and Prescott where Hope would be an anti slavery community with Prescott being a proslavery one. Eventually Hope and Hot Springs would liberate Prescott from the racist warlords there eliminating most of the threat from warlords in Arkansas. What are your thoughts on that?GOPZACK 00:03, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

That's fine if you wish to explore that. I don't have much time right now to check the Texarkana area for potential targets. A lot would ride on any military and economic targets the Soviets wanted to take out. might help you , but don't think of it as absolute canon. Another thing to consider is Hope and Prescott are like 10 miles northeast of the city; how much fallout and aftereffects from the blast would affect them obviously depends on the yield and wind patterns that night. BrianD 00:17, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
I will say what I said on another talkpage. To me the word "Dixie" is the old romantic nickname for the region, and it makes me visualize the good ol' down-home country charm that is the true spirit of the region. Discrimination exists everywhere, but this charm only exists south of the Mason-Dixon line. Sorry if I sound like a public relations commercial for the region, but thats just how I feel.
Yankovic270 03:13, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

My talk

Hi, Brian. I noticed you just deleted large sections of my talk page. Why is that? (I'm not trying to accuse, but genuinely asking: maybe I'm missing something.) Benkarnell 23:23, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't, not intentionally! I did try to leave a message there earlier today in regards to the anon user on Owen's page. BrianD 23:25, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't upset, no need to apologize! Sometimes I do miss things (I was an admin for a month before I realized it, actually), and I didn't know if there was some reason. Mitro's left a note on the anon's talk page and protected Owen's, so hopefully there'll be no more tampering. Benkarnell 23:45, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah apparently Owen has told the Wikia people we are "bullying" him. This guy saw it and wanted to say he supports us, but he is not a member of the Wikia staff. Mitro 00:26, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I decided to do a little snooping and it seems that Owen used the same username on Central Wiki. It's funny but someone copied the main page from one of his wikis and when he found out, he said if it's done again, there will be consquences. Doesn't seem that he reported us for bullying, unless you used a difference username. Maybe this user is a "sock" or whatever I saw Ben refer to it to of Owen's. Mr.Xeight 01:56, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

is it me or has Owen become really unpleasent recently? --HAD 16:12, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Mexico (some other ideas)

Hi there, I put some other ideas on the talk page of Mexico. JorgeGG 14:30, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

East Tennessee talkpage

Thank you Brian! What you said on the talkpage was exactly what I have been trying to tell everyone but nooooooo. Basically every user on '83 DD thinks of the Virginian as gun-happy, land-hungry, evil fascists. The article states that the martial efficiency of this state, coupled with the unusual punishment of hard labour even if the terrain was radioactive, allowed this state the fastest economic recovery in North America. The people enjoy an early twentieth century lifestyle on a continent where living conditions are commonly at eighteenth century levels.Virginian is at least one of the most financially and politically stable nations in the former US east of the Mississippi. I am grateful that my work is appreciated by anyone on the wiki. I am, of course, not seeking to argue with you. I am simply explaining what I imagine to be the situation as of late. And I think that alternate history is a person's imagination backed up by research.

Yankovic270 23:52, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


Hey I was wondering if you'd like a hand with the new Indiana page you made? I could assist in the portions of Southern Indiana controlled by Kentucky & I can start the page on the city state in Indiana. --GOPZACK 00:18, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, of course. Any ideas you have, let me know. BrianD 00:25, February 24, 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for the info. The anon has been blocked. Mitro 21:12, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


Those ungrateful b******s! The Dixie Alliance contingent came only wanting to help and those b******s stole their guns and threw threw them out of town. Not only that they did so while pretending to bring them to the mayor! These b******s need to be taught a lesson. This means war! And I am sure that the meeting of s Thompson tank and a Jackson tank would be like a WWII tank meeting one of those mechanical monstrosities that they used during WWI. The Jackson would be blown up and its crew roasting before they knew what hit them. Still I doubt that the Jacksonians would have a mechanized fighting force. Either way, this time the gloves are off! Jackson is going to learn the hard way why you don't piss off a Virginian.

Yankovic270 15:48, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

They wouldn't have a mechanized force. Probably one "tank". Also: the people who met the Virginian/Portland contingent were cordial. It was the leadership of the town that ordered the guns to be confiscated and the visitors escorted out of town. I suspected that Virginia would have contingency plans for such an event, involving one tank (not a dozen - after all, it's quite a long ways from Virginia proper to western Tennessee, especially in TTL). BrianD 17:15, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ok. That makes more sense. But, then again one of Viginia's tanks is more than a match to Jackson's "tank". Since the Jacksonians would probbably have nothing in the way of anit-tank weaponry, the Thompson tank would probabbly be virtually unopposed.

Yankovic270 17:28, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

How long would it take for the rearmed contingent to arrive back at Jackson? The sooner, the better.

Yankovic270 18:40, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

A couple of weeks - remember the distance between Virginia and west Tennessee, and that the troops and tanks are going over terrain. BrianD 19:28, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

The Kentucky I believe would help their ally, what shall they contribute? --GOPZACK 18:45, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

We could have Kentucky be a part of the contingent intent on attacking the ungrateful Jacksonians. The amount of soldiers actually particpating is up to you Zack. You just need to change "planning to send an expedition" to "sent an expedition" on the Kentucky article.

Yankovic270 19:03, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yep I can do that. I'll figure out a number soon, also do airstrikes do anything for you? --GOPZACK 19:08, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Oh yes! Nothing is too bad for those insolent Jacksonians. But please keep the airstrikes to a minimum, and please use them primarily to demoralize the enemy. There are going to be Kentuckian soldiers fighting in Jacksonian territory, so the Kentuckian Air Force is going to have to be careful not to kill allied soldiers. And try to avoid killing the Jacksonian mayor. I want to see him tried and executed by firing squad. Perhaps with his back to the wall of the Gillmore Hotel where the contingent stayed before being kicked out. Also I want the amount of Virginian soldiers to be , at least eventually, a grand total of 2,000. Or more.

Yankovic270 19:25, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

I'll leave it to you guys to formulate a response. Keep in mind though all members of the contingent were not harmed, just evicted from the territory, and without any of their weaponry. There was a skirmish as the weapons were "confiscated" - but as the contingent was outnumbered 4 to 1 and taken by surprise, the Jackson militia was able to get the weapons w/o having to seriously harm anyone in the process.BrianD 19:28, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
This is where the LoN steps in and cautions Virginia on what they might be dealing with. Virginia would respond "Look at what they did to us! We're going in and exact justice". The LoN responds, saying 1) you really don't know what you're dealing with - is this a bunch of gung-ho thugs that would be intimidated by a tank? Would you be walking into a trap, and find yourselves fighting a guerrilla-type war 2) all they did was kick you out and take your weapons; your people are all safe. But the fact they took the weapons, in our (LoN's) mind, is cause for concern. (Portland's last contact with Jackson, in the 90s, ended poorly, and Hattiesburg was told to stay "the hell out" of the area by survivalists who hinted at atrocities by the governing bodies. The LoN is going to advise intelligence to know what they are dealing with, then either negotiating with Jackson to get it to open up...or recommend a joint LoN/Virginia/Kentucky "task force" to remove the leadership by force. Of course, the LoN has no real jurisdiction over Virginia, Kentucky or Jackson (it only has peacekeepers in Portland), so Virginia could tell the LoN to get lost....or, Virginia and Kentucky could take the LoN's advice and gather more intelligence on the region before determining a response.BrianD 19:28, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

The rationality on the Virginans part is that they need to intervene before the Jacksonians becoome confident enough to start raiding surrounding survivor communities. They could be helped in this by the testimony of an escaped citizen of Jackson. The testimony pulls back the mystery on the repressive regime of Jackson. It would provide, in hindsight, a perfect reasoning for the war. It also makes the Dixie Alliance look good, as they are liberating the people of a repressed survivor state. It would make the war yet another stepping stone towards LoN membership for every member of the Dixie Alliance.

Yankovic270 02:35, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, on all counts. I've been hard on Virginia in the past, but as I've said before, I think I understand much better than I had before your reasoning behind the country's actions. Write up the scenario, and I would like you to keep in mind that the LoN representatives are American refugees living in Mexico, who are largely sympathetic to survivor nations in America, including Virginia. So, I had McAllister advise caution as opposed to unilaterally condemning Virginian "aggression". No one, least of all the LoN or Mexico, is going to intervene in this situation. Indeed, the LoN will observe this, to see how Kentucky and Virginia enact peace in this rogue citystate and free its citizens (the goals that the LoN says it is dedicated to preserving). BrianD 02:47, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, the contingent beat a hasty retreat to Portland, not all the way to Virginia or Kentucky.

Yankovic270 02:40, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

I knew that, even if I didn't convey that properly. BrianD 02:47, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't sure how many tanks and artillery Virginia would have sent into Portland, so I thought if they did have to go to war the tanks and heavy equipment might have to be shipped in. I overlooked the fact that Virginia's military would be prepared for every situation and they'd have more equipment than most people might think they'd need for a peace-keeping operation (in Portland). BrianD 02:49, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

When the unexpected happens it is often the overprepared that have a solution. The Virginians, not knowing what to expect, send everything but the kitchen sink. To make themselves seem less threatening they leave the heavier weaponry behind in Portland. When the Jacksonians turn out to be hostile, the Virginians high-five each other as their bit of paranoia paid off. Almost imediately after the Virginian Congress declares war, the Virginian tankers start their engines and head for Jackson. The infantry get resupplied with arms via neighboring Kentucky. How long would it take for the contingent to arrive back in Jacksonian territory from Portland?

ps: The Virginian artillery is pulled by livestock to save as much fuel as possible for the tanks. In fact the supply trains are back to the wagon trains last seen in the Civil War, and the infantry travel by foot. The majority of Virginian military transportation was set back to nineteenth century to help keep the armored contingent in the twentieth.

Yankovic270 03:14, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Google maps says it's 2 hours and 47 minutes by Interstate 40. By pulling livestock and foot - a day? How fast are the tanks going - the 2:47 I guess assumes 65 MPH over good roads. Virginia would be going over terrain. Perhaps two days, to allow for the troops to rest?BrianD 03:36, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Since the tanks are roughly the equivilent of the german King Tiger tank the top speed would be more like 35 mph, not 65. For convienience's sake the contingent is going to mainly stick to I-40. What kind of condition would you assume it would be? I could have a pair of tanks fitted with special parts to clear the road of any cars stalled by Doomsday. These "Bulldozer" tanks would naturally lead the contingent to clear the highway. It would take at least 3-4 days, as the oh-so-vital tanks are about half your estimated speed.

Yankovic270 03:57, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

You'll need to figure a more direct route to Jackson that avoids Nashville, as I-40 runs through Nashville (the route probably would go north of the blast site, and be the same one that Portland and Jackson used in the late 80s and early 90s).BrianD 04:13, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, then I'll use the earlier Portland-Jackson route. That probbaly rules out blulldozer tanks.

Yankovic270 04:24, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Find a map of tennessee, take a straight line, more or less (while avoiding Davidson County, where radiation would probably present a problem..though I wonder how much so now?), between the two cities, roughly following state and county roads along that line. That would be your route. BrianD 05:07, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

See, this is what we need more of - more nice, manageable, 2-sided wars, not the complicated monstrosities we dream up and leave half-written. I'm excited to see what you come up with. Benkarnell 05:01, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Like Saguenay? Is everyone on extended vacation up there or what? :) BrianD 05:07, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

I plan on this war being the anti-Sanguenay. Short and Sweet. I doubt that this small statelet would be able to resist for long.

Yankovic270 17:15, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm with Ben - I'm looking forward to what you and Zack will come up with. My only suggestion is to have most of the fighters in Jackson fight like men - perhaps the leadership would back down like cowards when you finally corner them. But the rank and file would be fearless, fighting more for their world (Jackson) and for each other than for the men who run the place. In fact...these might be the kind of men that the Dixie Alliance would find useful. Good hunting...BrianD 19:21, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oh I know they will, but they will still be defeated quickly. The reason? Because the Dixie Alliance has pure, crushing numerical superiority over the Jacksonians. And they posess even small quantities of what can be considered a modern main battle tank.

Yankovic270 22:46, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

How long would it take for the Dixie Alliance troops to complete the occupation of Jackson if the Jacksonians fought street-by-street, house-by-house, Berlin style?

Yankovic270 00:46, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Dang, what is the Alliance looking to do? Remove the regime? Or blitzkrieg the entire city? There is a certain amount about their enemy that the Alliance does not know, so they would be right to prepare for any scenario.
If I were the Alliance, I would have forces show up back at the section of the Interstate where they got kicked out, and send an ultimatum to the regime: negotiate, or be removed. Have the Alliance forces surround the city quietly. While the Alliance delivers its ultimatum Kentucky aircraft fly over the city and drop pamphlets, explaining who the Alliance is, their status as former American states now independent nations, allied for peace and prosperity, etc etc etc. with the aim of getting the people on your side, and informing them their regime, not they, are the enemy here. Jackson's forces are trained by survivalists and former Vietnam vets who would look to the Communist guerrilla tactics as their strategy for defending their territory. I'll leave it to you to determine if Jackson fires first or actually talks, but I would have Jackson try to draw the Alliance forces into a guerrilla trap. The regime won't back down easily; initially the Alliance forces would overwhelm the Jackson guerrillas (for that is what they are), but after the second day the forces withdraw into the center of town, the leaders trying desperately to hold onto their power. This is where the house-to-house fighting could might take a couple of weeks to root them all out, and that might result in hundreds of casualties amongst the civilians and Alliance forces. I would propose having the LoN send an observer - a Mexican military commander from Arizona who fought for the U.S. in Vietnam and would be familiar with Jacksonian tactics. BrianD 03:04, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Great idea! How about after the pamphlet drop the Jacksonian government, attempting to save face in front of its citizenry, brazenly rejects the offer to negotiate. The noose that the Alliance formed around Jackson tightens as the DA forces drive themselves deeper and deeper into Jackson's heart, until they capture Mayor Farmer. The whole idea of this war was to punish the people who created the incident that sparked the war. That means the leadership of Jackson. Anyway, please post your response and ideas on my talkpage.

Yankovic270 03:33, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Mexico (1983: Doomsday)‎

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!! Haved read your edits on Mexico. Liked them a lot. Very plausible and with some twist I dinn't think before but work very well. Very interesting. JorgeGG 13:44, March 15, 2010 (UTC) p.s. sorry I didn't read them before (earthquake down here in Chile top priority and job - I work in the goverment - main worries)

Thanks, Jorge! I'm building on your work. This is a work in progress, so I am not done yet (by a long shot). BrianD 16:02, March 15, 2010 (UTC)


If you don't mind could I begin a page for a survivor community around the Oil City-Franklin area? --GOPZACK 23:24, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

What do you have in mind for it, Zack? And, while we're on the topic, do you have any additional ideas for Pennsylvania - including involvement with the Dixie Alliance? BrianD 01:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I suppose now is a good time to layout my ideas for Pennsylvania as a whole. I believe the bastions of Democracy in the state will be in the State College-Altoona area, the Reading-Allentown-Bethlaham (possibly) area and the Oil City-Franklin everything else is either nuked, in chaos or run by gangs and warlords. As for the Dixie alliance I think they will most likely would have had sporadic contact with some survivor groups in Pennsylvania. To quote James Carville "Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in Between. Considering the portions of the state that faired the best in PA are in the "Alabama" section I could see many of the smaller villages and towns wanting to join the Dixie Alliance and possibly the areas round State College, Altoona and Oil City as well. As for Allentown & Reading you claimed that area so I'll let you start that area off & if I come up with anything to build off of that I'll let you know. --GOPZACK 02:19, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm revising the main article to eliminate Allentown and Bethlehem, and putting Reading as the center of that particular survivor communities group. Remember I also claimed the forest area in the northern part of the state. I hadn't heard the Carville quote before. Oil City would be in the State College sphere of influence anyway, right? Go right ahead then.BrianD 19:09, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

To-do list

  • help write scenario for Malaysia (a long term project)
  • Draw up World Cup 2010 schedule
  • update sports by country, colleges and universities page
  • Explore possible reunification between west and east Texas, and ramifications of such a union on the combined country and region. How much of the former state could it actually control?
  • West Texas Congress is expected to vote on formalizing San Angelo and Waco's territorial status when it reconvenes in January 2010.
  • George W. Bush - negotiator, Mexican ambassador to West Texas
  • Possible incentives for former Americans to move back to West Texas...including Dubya
  • Investigate Vermont's role as Switzerland of North America and all its political ramifications
  • Investigate move to extend term from 2 yrs (as Vermont governors have OTL) to 4 years (like the US President OTL) and why that is so important for Douglas to do his job as a regional leader
  • Confederation of New England establishment
  • exploration of nuked Massachusetts, Conn. and Rhode Island, plus exploration of New York City (based on FxGentleman's NBC article, it's probable that someone has already visited and explored Manhattan).
  • expand on Pennsylvania, New York and New England articles (New England to be created)

--BrianD 04:19, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

New England page

Outline for proposed New England: 1983 Doomsday page I plan to create soon:



Republic of Vermont


New Hampshire

Vermont territories that became counties in



status of Rhode Island

status of Aroostook/Vermont port in former Maine

status of Confederation of New England

Foreign relations (with Canada, Saguenay, St. Lawrence, Superior, Mexico, ANZC, Celtic Alliance and LoN)

BrianD 21:38, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


Could I have the Dixie Alliance offer aid to Hattiesburg to help defend the city-state from the rogues in New Montgomery?

Yankovic270 00:07, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

That was years ago in the timeline, Yank. It would do better to establish formal relations with Hattiesburg, if they haven't already been established. BrianD 01:45, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
There is a similar rogue city-state, confirmed by witnesses to still be holding slaves, and claiming to be heir to the CSA. That city-state is "Toccoa, CSA." For years now agents of Piedmont's version of the CIA, its Covert Information Forces (CIF) has had operatives in both Toccoa and Anderson. The CIF has worked with the citizens of northwest Georgia to build an resistence organization to overthrow the regime at Toccoa Falls. This information, of course is top secret. I suppose if Yank would like, he could look a little closer to home to offer military assistance. SouthWriter 02:21, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Governors of Georgia

Brian, I am confused as to the procession of governors at Athens. You seem to confuse [given name?] Sanders and Davidson in the first paragraphs. I want to list the governors in the Infobox of the Georgia (U.S. state). SouthWriter 15:29, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. I apologize for the confusion; in fact I don't even remember who "Sanders" was! BrianD 16:33, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

No problem. There was a Carl Sanders that was a governor of Georgia back in the sixties. You may have seen the name on a list of governors of Georgia. Or perhaps that was the mayor of Athens (the loser in that first election). SouthWriter 20:50, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
I couldn't find a reference to the mayor of Athens in 1983 online. In fact, it's near impossible to find references to mayors of any towns or small cities online for that time period.BrianD 21:03, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed that. Occasionally I get lucky while researching a state or federal race and land on a mayor who was a contender. I think I found the mayor of Darlington, GA, once, but I'm not sure I will be able to do it again for the article! That's how difficult it is.SouthWriter 21:28, April 13, 2010 (UTC)


Hi BrianD. I made an article proposal about the Berkshires. I didn't know that Vermont had control over the area. So I was wondering if I could change it so the page would be about the Berkshires being a county of Vermont. CheesyCheese 14:54, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Sure. It looks to me though like the Berkshires have been independent up until now; were you going to revise that, or did you want Berkshires to formally join Vermont this year (perhaps now?). You also may want to review the history of Vermont article to make sure that the date you've established for first contact with Vermont doesn't contradict when I had the Vermont Army going into Massachusetts and Connecticut. Making contact with the Berkshires around that time period is fine with me. BrianD 15:02, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

My contact date is off. I have it between 1989 and 1995. However I can change it. So about joining Vermont. Instead of being a county, how about a satellite state?. CheesyCheese 15:24, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Check the main talk page where you commented a few minutes ago. Perhaps having "The Berkshires" as a semi-autonomous state within the Vermont borders, and alongside Berkshire County? We'd have to figure out a plausible reason for Vermont to not swallow up your nation. BrianD 02:15, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Having the Berkshires as a semi-autonomous state seems good enough for me. CheesyCheese 13:17, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Two EMPs over America

Since we were getting way off subject over at Blue Ridge Talk, I came here. I mentioned that there would have to be two lower

Red circles: EMPs at 130 miles

missiles to cover the USA and not much anything else. Well, the available choices ended up missing the tip of Texas, so I enlarged the lower strike by just a little -- I figure 130 miles up instead of 120 -- to zap every inch of the lowere 48 along with northern Mexico and a few islands of the western end of the Bahamas. As you'll notice, I even missed zapping western Cuba (though the nuke on Havana would have accomplished that!). I liked the idea of Aroostook getting a break (as the large circle shows) but this way the story stays the same.

By the way, the two EMPs would be about 130 miles above western Colorado and northeastern Illinois. SouthWriter 04:55, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

I could live with something that would effectively cover the whole of the US and just about all of Canada, plus the border Mexican states. We've never really dealt with where the EMP blasts occurred and how far their range was, and any proposal, would be something that would need to be brought to everyone's attention. You can have Mexico with border states effected by the EMP blasts; but I maintain that if we went with the 300 mile scenario, that drastically affects Mexico because, at least as I understand it, Mexico was more or less the most stable and powerful nation in the region throughout the 1980s and 1990s. If most of the nation gets thrown back into the Wild West, how could Reagan contact de la Madrid? How would Reagan choose to ask de la Madrid to take in the American citizens who fled to Mexico? None of the Mexican cities other than Tijuana and Juarez would have been affected by the blasts, but if the capital city is in chaos, how could the entire nation not fall apart? Why not have 30 different republics where the United Mexican States used to be? I'm sure that someone would love to put together some barely legible proposal for the "Republic of Acapulco" but I'm not prepared to go there. This timeline, IMO, depends on a stable Mexico; EMPs frying everything north of Yucatan and Chiapas might be enough to throw that nation over the edge into anarchy. Plus, it has been assumed all along that Aroostook suffered the same fate as the rest of the nation - so, sadly, no Power 98 blasting hope, news and Tom Petty to the rest of northern Maine and New Brunswick :( BrianD 11:58, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, two bad we couldn't have at least one stable government to begin things in a good light. Even Alaska didn't fill that spot. Any way, I don't believe there ever was a difinitive statement in any article about the EMPs placement or even the number of EMPs. If there was, it can be easily changed to fit canon. Russia had plenty of bombs and a relative shortage of missiles, resulting in a lot of multiple warheads. I'd say that the real expense would have been the fuel needed to get the payload to 300 miles. Perhaps, instead the above graphic can be assumed and written in to the main timeline. Should the US have planned a similar EMP strategy, or could we have had a rocket capable of the 300 mile altitude? I can propose an article on EMPs to be referenced from the paragraph that mentions them in the main timeline. SouthWriter 17:26, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Confederate States of America

Hi, Brian. I know you're the "Boss" when it comes to the South, but I placed a complaint on the talk page at your new "information" article on the Confederate States of America. You know I'm a southerner, and I have held off working on Toccoa because I find the stereotype that has been perpertrated to be hard to work with. Yank, a Canadian, has taken the stereotype of a conservative nationalist to great heights. The scenario with "New Montgomery" is a cartoon masquarading as a scenario.

I have worked hard the last few days beginning to breathe some life into the "great last hope" for the Constitutional Republic that dares to call itself the "United States of America." I am an American, and in the ATL a proud Piedmontan looking forward to a time when at least Piedmont, Blue Ridge and (East) Tennessee can bond as a coalition to uphold what is so right about the values that make the south a great place to live. But if I am able to guide the story line just a bit, I would love it if the south and the west could join together to once again show the world that the American experiment is not a failure! SouthWriter 03:26, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

South, you are taking this way too personal. No offense is meant to you nor to any other fact, the existence of Piedmont, Blue Ridge, East Tennessee, Outer Banks; North Florida, South Florida, Hattiesburg, Natchez, Hot Springs, Portland, Broken Bow, Louisiana, West Texas, eastern Texas, RGV, South Texas....and as-yet unwritten proposals like your New South in Georgia; Darien; and various communes and towns we haven't yet uncovered show the South is not a bastion of racism and violence, but overall is a pretty tolerant, civlized place to live in this timeline.
That said, in some ways at least this is a dystopia...and there will be pockets of violence, and communities where racism, at least for a time, prevailed.
As far as being the boss....that's your opinion. I got the ball rolling, but anyone could have done it, and there are a lot of nations I didn't create and don't have final say over (if I wanted to exercise such a thing). I see no problem with the basic concept of Virginia, and New Montgomery is not supposed to be a cartoon but a nation of white racists. Racism was postulated as a real issue in whatever survived in the south by the editors here, before you got here and before I arrived. I rolled with it. I'm sorry for offending you, but when I created these scenarios I didn't think "hey, how can I offend someone?" I tried to make it as realistic as I could. If you wish to take this further up the chain, to the overseers of this time line and the wiki, you are welcome to do so. BrianD 03:55, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
I know you did not mean to offend, and I am probably letting it get to me a little, but I didn't want to vent to hard on the "public forum" just yet. I know that your article is just a proposal, and that it is just a repository for general coverage of whatever "CSA" groups might arise. However, I just don't want the stereotype of the south to be the "norm" when such articles are laid out for consideration. When I referred to New Montgomery as a "cartoon," it was my way of saying it was a caricature or a satirical look at rednecks run wild. I know what it is like to be called a hate-monger for merely pointing out bad behavior. I am the bad guy for standing for what is right while others get away with all kinds of anti-social behavior while being a member of some "minority" demanding special rights.
Racism is as old as the Tower of Babel - and it has not always been a matter of skin tone. People groups grow apart and by nature don't trust other groups who are "different." It's human nature. Though told to show the world what God was like, the Jewish people came to hate anyone not Jewish. This anti-social behavior caused all other people groups to hate the Jews. When European tribes came upon and absorbed the culture of those they conquered, they came to see those less endowed with such culture as Barbarians (called such because they could not speak the language). Such uncultured people came to be exploited, and then treated as less than human because they were misunderstood. Much mistrust arose among the subjugated -- for good reason -- and the cultural divide made the feeling mutual when the subjugation ended. Yes, "racism" is real. But most people only want to be among those who they "understand." Ethnic and cultural divides are far more pervasive.
I say this as a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant -- de facto "racist" because I have inherited the "majority" culture -- who does not believe in the concept of "race" among humans. I have friends who are in "bi-racial" marriages with lovely children. I have friends that have adopted an infant that could have been born in the sub-saharan jungles of Africa. The amount of pigment in the skin does not constitute a "different" race! We all are of ONE race, known as the HUMAN race. The president of the United States is not "bi-racial" or a "black" man, but rather he is a HUMAN being of mixed heritage. He and I share an American ancestor, in fact, who came to America as an infant in the early 1600's. My Irish ancestors were despised by my English ancestors. And both those groups despised my Jewish ancestors (in London "ghettos" in the 1400's, I believe).
If we must create racist groups, let us see if we can tie them to real historic trends in the areas where we place them. Where were the neo-Nazis in the 1980's? What is the history of such groups that exist today? Could the KKK takeover a town in Indiana in 1983? Would race riots tear apart Athens a less than three years after Georgian Jimmy Carter left the White House? Was the Selma of 1983 the hot bed of racial strife that it was in 1963? I lived in Athens in the seventies, my grandmother lived in Selma until her death there in the early 90's, The fine people of Anderson are my neighbors, and were so in 1983. I have lived through this -- my neighbors on either side are African American, across the street and behind me live Hispanic families. They live lives much like mine.
Enough ranting. Thanks again for putting up with me.SouthWriter 05:41, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
South, please forgive me where I have offended you. How am I to know what these towns are like? I am an outsider, of sorts. I had my reasons for writing up Athens, Toccoa, Anderson, Selma, etc. the way I did and it wasn't to perpetuate stereotypes. In a nuclear war, where all is presumed lost and you are thought to be the only one left alive, who is to say what might happen? Athens may have torn itself apart if WWIII actually had occurred; it wasn't just about race riots. It was everyone against everyone. The article was intended to convey a sense of despair among the people. Selma and New Montgomery was intended to show racist enclaves developing as a result of a dystopia, not stereotyping the region. Selma was chosen because the African-Americans who fled there via persecution from the white racists saw it as historically significant; New Montgomery was the creation of whites, some whom were racists, some whom wanted merely to be among their own "kind" (as ridiculous as sounds) and build their own society. I could very well be wrong, on not just something I wrote but everything I wrote. In fact, if the other editors here think its a good idea (and don't ignore it), we can revise things if it makes more historical sense and logical sense. I hope I'm not hard headed enough to refuse to do that.
Remember, though, the origin of this timeline...if you saw The Day After the overwhelming sense of the people was total despair; almost no hope at all. Take what happened in Lawrence, Kansas and put it all across the country; is it possible that such despair would result in men and women doing things to one another, and accepting demagogues and thugs and racists as authorities, they never would have before the nuclear exchange? Now that isn't to say that everyone would have committed mass suicide; South, I think you and I are kindred spirits in that we believe people would have risen up and overcome their circumstances to rebuild society as best they could. For every Athens I wrote, I wrote up a West Texas, a Blue Ridge, an East Tennessee, a Vermont. I'm more optimistic than pessimistic. Even with Lawrence, I didn't leave the people to die, instead having them make the trek to shelter in nearby Nebraska. Endless stories of death and cannibalism and despair don't interest me; life itself in this TL is hard enough as is :-) I still want to have the small city/college town fall apart, I still want to have the race-based enclaves (but not because I believe the people are inherently racist). I believe those scenarios would play out somehow, and they need to play out somewhere. If not Athens, then where? Greenville NC? Tuscaloosa? Oxford? Starkville? And, if I rewrite Athens, what to do when the next editor comes along and objects to Auburn, or Starkville? Next thing you know the entire South and Midwest and East and West is such a pleasant little place to live, except for those bothersome 3-mile-long radioactive craters. You've made some great points regarding this timeline, but so have Mitro, Louisiannan, BenKarnell and Xi'Reney.BrianD 10:46, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
Well, Brian, I appreciate your responding the way you did. After spending quite some time today

CSA 1990

(Monday) on mapping the proposed states of CSA -- Map of CSA in 1990 is to the right -- I think these city-states and "full" states have a chance at a comeback. I added "Alabama, CSA (defunct)" to the Doomsday by state page. However, that brought up a little problem. If these individual states are autonomous states now, what do they call themselves (or what should we call them in the meantime)? I'm thinking "Provisional state of ---" since each of the surviving states (the other two being controlled by Kentucky/Dixie Alliance right now). PS-TN may even be able absorb Jackson once the DA moves its peace keeping forces out. If PS-AL claims the rest of abandoned North Alabama, the combined new CSA will be quite a chunk of uninterupted real estate. It might even prove enticing to BR, ET and RoP.SouthWriter 04:18, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
South, the states probably officially died along with the first version of this country. Or, they exist in name only...for example, someone from Shelbyville will say they're from Shelbyville, or Tennessee (although the only official government is the CIty of Shelbyville). Referring to ones self as a "Tennesseean" for example still exists in the popular culture there. In fact the movement to reform the states may precede the move to reform the nation. The only question is how far back do you want to go in reestablishing statehood. The Alabama towns could probably gear up fairly quickly (in fact the mall still exists TTL as a museum that could be converted back to government use). Same in northwest Georgia, northeast Mississippi and south Tennessee (though the strongest towns in those regions would take the lead at reestablishing state government). This also opens up possibilities for existing citystates, from Piedmont to Selma to Hattiesburg, as to what to do with this CSA: join or not? BrianD 04:28, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Spelling Changes

On the recent revert of my 'corrections' -- That's what I get for believing the spell checker in source mode! I went on the page to check the structure of the info box, and as I was about to leave, those pesty red lines jumped out at me. --SouthWriter 02:52, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Spellchecker unfortunately isn't always right. Especially for the title of a TV show that everyone there would have remembered! BrianD 02:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't help that the actual town in Kentucky with the name is spelled "Hazard." Google Earth pulls up "Hazard, Washington Co, Georgia" but it is just a road outside of Terriville (about halfway between Macon and Augusta). SouthWriter 03:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
I think it was intentional on the part of the producers, to avoid confusion with the actual Hazard here in Kentucky. BrianD 03:19, May 5, 2010 (UTC)


South's map is a good start. I tried to post a map tonight but the file was too big. If I can find a county map of the southern United States that's not the size of a Kindle book, I can set it up and post it. --BrianD 02:57, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Use this if you want

I have no idea how I pieced together my blank map, and I forgot to save it! But I got it from this site that makes printable maps:

I used the sight to grab this from the screen capture:

SouthWriter 04:02, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Would you be interested in reading and giving me ideas on how to expand the Russian Expansion Timeline. --Catherine 23:34, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Catherine, but I'm focused on the 1983: Doomsday timeline right now. I barely have time for that. You need someone who can give you the time you need to get that project up and running as you want it. BrianD 23:45, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Brian, who created the 1983: Doomsday timeline? Why do so many people (or nearly all) on this site have something to do with it. Is it the most popular timeline on this wiki? --Catherine 00:56, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Catherine, I don't know if it's the most popular, but it sees a lot of activity. I can't speak for others, for myself this is the timeline that grabbed my attention and I thought I could make some good contributions to it. As far as who created it, I believe the originator was an anonymous user. Mitro, Xi'Reney, Benkarnell and Louisiannan have been around far longer than I, and they can answer any questions you have about the timeline, as well as possibly give you better help on your Russian timeline. BrianD 01:04, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


I'm putting all my contributions for 1983: Doomsday on hiatus, given the ongoing discussion on the talk page. Exceptions will be discussions of anything regarding my created articles as they relate to the impending review and revision of the overall timeline. Given that this will be the case, I don't see the point of going on.--BrianD 21:42, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

I want to clarify something. I guess it's not a total hiatus, but until we figure out what direction the timeline is going to take, I don't see much point in developing scenarios when we may decide to roll things back to a more primitive state. We may not do so at all, though, which is why I'm holding on to the nations and scenarios I've created and not placing them up for adoption. I want to see where 1983: Doomsday goes over the next several months. BrianD 03:45, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

New timeline idea

I have an idea for a concept mashing the 19th and 20th centuries together - where the War for Independence was fought in the 1870s (with 19th century technology)... where conflicts over civil rights and slavery, between Southern aristocratic, upper class minority and an African-American slave majority led to civil war after the federal government attempted to intervene in the 1960s....where Abe Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. were contemporaries, where William Howard Taft is the current President and only a few, crazed nuts on the internet see political conditions setting the stage for a great global war unlike the world had ever seen....the only thing is, I don't know what to call it :-) BrianD 03:45, May 23, 2010 (UTC)


Hey Brian, I just wanted to give you a heads up on a proposal I am about to make involving several nations you made, specifically Vermont and Northern Townships. I was going to propose the "economic union" hinted at in Aroostook, but I thought since you were the creator of two of the three nations I would get a green light before I forcefully involve two of your creations. Arstarpool 03:08, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Tell me what your ideas are first. Perhaps I can be of some help there. I'll review them in the morning, and get back to asap tomorrow. BrianD 03:34, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I was going to develop it as something between the Nordic Union (which basically governs all of its members) and the SAC (self governing countries, unified economy). Since they are your articles, feel free to add whatever you want. However, this is going to be a "new" union, like present day, just formed this year "new". Arstarpool 04:09, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Vermont is an independent country and politicially neutral. Switzerland isn't an exact model in terms of culture, how Vermont governs itself, et al. But it is in terms of its neutrality, which is a pretty important concept to the nation. Joining a North Atlantic Organization would render that neutrality null and void. Economically, Vermont would have worked out trade and economic agreements with the various countries (like Aroostook, with the port in Maine on the Atlantic coast). If the regional countries merged together, Vermont would certainly work out agreements with the new nation. But just as modern-day Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, so TTL Vermont wouldn't be a member of the NAO.
Also - the NAO wouldn't just appear overnight. Something like this takes years to develop. Therefore either this thing was proposed and begun years ago (perhaps back around 2000) or economic and political conditions are just now allowing for such a union to be proposed. BrianD 13:53, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
The North American Community, since you brought the thing on Vermont up, would just be a single-currency economic union. There would be no military necessities, no juristiction, no etc. Essentially, it would be like "Trade me your gold for this bucket of oil" kind of thing. Of course, the gold and the oil bucket would be paid through by the North Atlantic Dollar I proposed, though if you like it would be similar to OTL Euro, where every country has their own little version of the NA Dollar. Or, if Vermont is still picky, the Vermont dollar can be a legal tender for the Union.
As for the date, it was something just formed recently, maybe a couple years ago, and only now are things like unified currency and open borders coming into effect. (though I don't know if having your borders open is a good idea in this ATL).
I was thinking that maybe the Northern Townships could be eligible as well, but thats for you to decide. Arstarpool 22:03, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I've already explained why Vermont would not agree to something like this for now. This may be the eventual fate of the region - including Canada - but not now. So I cannot support the proposal as is.--BrianD 22:23, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Is there anything I could do to make Vermont join? I will make it as loose as possible if you wish. I can degrade it to a free-trade union, similar to the Dixie Alliance. There will be no unified currency or anything like that. I don't want this idea to go to waste.

As for the Northern Townships, do I get a yes or no on that one? Arstarpool 22:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Arstarpool, may I ask why you're so adamant about this proposal, especially one involving countries you didn't even create (but two that I did) and, to the best of my knowledge, haven't (until now) taken any interest in? Why does this North Atlantic Organization need to exist? BrianD 11:26, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Adamant? Nah, to be honest I could care less. I figured that since the "Confederation of New England" never got very far that I could replace it with a much looser organization, since this area is one of the underdeveloped in terms of economics. Arstarpool 15:32, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Okay then. Just because the Confederation of New England never got very far doesn't mean it won't. Remember this entire timeline is supposed to be happening in real time, and things like you're proposing take years of negotations and development to become reality. So once again, being that I am caretaker of Vermont and the northern townships - and that Mitro, who's studying for the bar and won't be back until August, is caretaker of Aroostook - I have to say no on this proposal.BrianD14:51, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Outer Lands

Could I adopt the Outer Lands from you? Arstarpool 05:18, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

No, because I still have some ideas I want to develop for the region in conjunction with Vermont and former New Hampshire. BrianD 02:52, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I want to lend my support to you retaining, or regaining control of this article. All Arstarpool has been doing is working on his proposed "Plymouth" article with little regard to the Outer Lands. At first I supported his desires to recreate the original Plymouth colony, but his way of dealing with the issue is unprofessional. He needs to learn to compromise if this is going to work. SouthWriter 01:42, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Republic of Texas article proposal

The Republic of Texas is a proposed unification of various entities within the borders of the former U.S. state of Texas:

  • The Republic of Dos Laredos has told authorities from surrounding nation states and the League of Nations it is not interested in uniting with the proposed Republic of Texas.
  • The residents of the various survivor towns and townships in the central portion of old Texas are satisfied with the status quo, but would likely vote to merge into the new nation.

As of July 31, 2010, political leaders in Midland and Nacogdoches are discussing merger of their two countries by January 1, 2012.

The process involves drafting a constitution for the new country, and then presenting it to voters across the former state in a referendum to be held in May 2011. Assuming the measure is approved, delegates would then be chosen for a constitutional convention, either in Midland or Nacogdoches, in August 2011 to approve the new constitution.

West Texas, eastern Texas, South Texas, RGV, Graham, Paris and the association of Central Texas towns would each nominate their heads of state for a special Presidential election in November 2011. The winner would be inaugurated on February 20, 2012.


I am sorry, Brian, but now that I think of it I decline the offer to bring up the border dispute w/ Plymouth and Outer Lands. I narrowly avoided a large border dispute, and as you can see here you directly allowed me to keep the northern part of Cape Cod:

I read the description, but its not very descriptive. Plymouth had no nearby strike zones other than Boston, as with Barnstable. So I thought that it would be logical for them to cooperate with each other. If you could just allow me to use the northern tips of the Cape, that would be good. Arstarpool 04:16, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
You know...that's fine. Best wishes to the Plymouth survivor nation. BrianD 04:21, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
I am sorry again but I decline any discussion over the border. If you would like any slight or small adjustments to be made, that is fine, but I will not fork over the entire part you allowed me to use. Arstarpool 16:41, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

So I take it you're not leaving the 1983:DD TL?--BrianD 19:56, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Nope. If you would like more of the Cape Cod region that is fine but I plan on keeping Barnstable the town and the northern tip. Arstarpool 21:48, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Delmarva-Vermont Future Ties

Brian: I wanted to say thanks in regard to your comments, they were appreciated. I know we both started at approximately the same time and I have enjoyed reading your work especially in regards to New England and Texas. I wanted to talk with you regarding the new map just released showing your areas and my Delmarva unifying along with PA and NY into a vast supernation in the future. What do you think of all this? I have tried to keep Delmarva neutral like Vermont, which is why I have steered clear of the Dixie Alliance. I have always hoped Vermont and Delmarva could have closer relations, but figured it likely wouldn't happen until you opened up a sea port since Delmarva is more likely to communicate and trade by sea. I had never gotten around to talking about the subject with you; however, the map got me to thinking so I thought I would raise the question. I could see the two sides working to help survivors in NY-PA but not merging. Let me know your thoughts when you get a chance, there is no rush. Believe it or not I am going on vacation this weekend to NV for two weeks so I will only be checking in on occasion as I can. Thanks.--Fxgentleman 17:22, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen the new map. My understanding is that this TL is a historical timeline, not a futuristic one. I do have Aroostook and Vermont working jointly on a port in former Kennebunkport, Maine, and though I haven't written it, I would have expected Vermont to have contacted Delmarva and established relations years ago. BrianD 20:19, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Erie, Pa

Hey, Brian. I recently created an article on a survivor state in Pennsylvania, but I accidentally included Erie in the article, a city you wrote as being nuked on the Pennsylvania State page. Anyways, I raised it as an issue, and eventually a group consensus led to the rest of the community agreeing that it would not have been hit. You can see in the archives of 1983: Doomsday/Politics 4 that we took a vote and such. However, Mitro claims that all the work I put into Erie not being hit does not count and plans to mark the article obsolete.

Technically, it is now established canon that Erie was not hit. It all depends on your input. My article depends on Erie not being hit, but Mitro continues to argue that it was a violation of QSS and QAA. Nevertheless I am assuming that the group consensus overrided that.

Get back to me when you can.

Arstarpool 19:33, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

When I wrote the Pennsylvania article, I did use the FEMA article as a source to base my target list on. I did not half-ass list targets without any thought as to what or why they would have been hit. I did have faith in the FEMA list and that the writer knew what he/she was doing. Erie would have been hit because of its manufacturing hub; the Soviets would have targeted cities and towns they thought would have been used by the military to rebuild itself and the country. I'm sorry for what this does to your proposal, but in this case, Mitro is correct. Keep in mind QSS as well, and that it not only keeps the timeline from turning into a chaotic mess, it also protects articles that editors - like you and I - have written. BrianD 20:05, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

World Heritage Sites

Hi Might I adopt your World Heritage article? because i'm always contribuiting and I add all the images. VENEZUELA 03:09, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Have at it. It was always intended for the entire community to use, for users like yourself to contribute what they would. Keep up the good work!BrianD 04:18, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Johnny Cash

Cash's last concert before 9/25/83 in OTL and TTL was in Omaha, Nebraska, on 9/21. He next performed TTL 9/28 in Miami Beach. It's possible that he stopped back home in Hendersonville, Tennessee between concerts. We could go that route in writing his history, but I simply don't know. If that was the case, he and the Cash family almost certainly would have to be written into the history of Portland, Tennessee. If anyone sees this and can shed some light on where he was the night of Doomsday, I'd love to hear about it. BrianD 03:53, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


Thanks! I'm actually working on the 2012 Summer Olympic Bids: Krasnoyar, Caracas, Auckland, New Athens, and New Cairo for a future article. But Caracas is gonna win because I was thinking a SAC olympics would be cool, but not in the tipical Brazil or Argentina, so I decide Caracas. VENEZUELA 00:18, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Since when did the 2012 Summer Olympics go up for bidding? To the best of my knowledge, it's canon that 2012 is the first post-DD Games and will be in the ANZC. See the International Olympic Committee page. 2016 is also spoken for, in Rio. BrianD 00:24, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


Just let him make whatever edits he wants on those obsolete pages. The way I see it, as long as he spends his time and energy editing articles that don't matter, he won't spend time ruining articles that do. Mitro 18:07, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. BrianD 21:03, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

BrianD on the TSPTF? Possibly...

Hey Brian I was wondering if you'd be interested in being nominated to fill the final void in the Lieutenancy? --GOPZACK 02:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Let me think about it. Where can I find a list of the responsibilities that come with it?BrianD 03:30, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
Right here [2] . If its something you'd like to pursue let me know & I'll nominate you as quick as I can. --GOPZACK 04:13, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
Let me sleep on it, at the least. BrianD 04:27, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
Certainly no rush! --GOPZACK 04:28, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like NuclearVacuum will fill that last void. That's fine, but I would be willing in the future to be on the TSPTF as long as the members are interested and I can fulfill all expected duties. BrianD 02:21, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Another two spots have opened up, are you interested in being nominated for one of them? --Zack 21:01, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sure. BrianD 21:14, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Arizona nuclear target list

List for Arizona article I will be working on: Davis-Monthan AFB at Tucson (Titan missiles, area within a line con- necting Nogales, Cochise, Mammoth, Eloy, south to Mexican border), Luke AFB (Glendale), Marine Corps Air Station (Yuma), Williams AFB (Chandler), Yuma Proving Ground. Secondary: Gilbert, Perryville. Tertiary: Phoenix (Hmmmmmm....nah. Still would have been destroyed.)

Survivors around Prescott? --BrianD 21:48, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Arizona population according to the 1980 census: 2,716,546. BrianD 23:21, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

New Mexico nuclear target list

List for New Mexico article I will be working on: Alamagordo, Cannon AFB (also area east to state line), Kirtland AFB, Walker AFB (Roswell), White Sands (Las Cruces). Secondary: Albuquerque. Tertiary: Gallup. (perhaps this city survives?)

Survivors around Silver City? Not an advanced nation state, but perhaps a true outlaw town...known to Mexican and Texan authorities as a place where pot, cocaine, et al is made and grown...--BrianD 21:51, September 12, 2010 (UTC)



Hey, I can't get it right every time. Thanks for being there to correct my obvious blunder on the date of Doomsday. I must have written that after looking at the Doomsday main page which gives the time first in Moscow and then in the rest of the world. In that beginning point it WAS September 26th. SouthWriter 03:13, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

De nada. BrianD 03:56, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Long Island in 83DD

Hello there. I just happened to notice that you have made a nation in 83DD that includes portions of Long Island. I wanted to know if it could be possible if I could contribute on behalf of Long Island. I have been wanting to do something involving Long Island for 83DD, but haven't been able to come up with anything since the majority of the island was nuked. But I love the idea of it being part of a loose federation. --NuclearVacuum 15:55, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

You'll need to talk to Arstarpool. He adopted Outer Lands. BrianD 16:03, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
He did? Sorry, I had no idea. Wait, it says you didn't want him to adopt it. --NuclearVacuum 16:29, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I had no idea. But either way, I love the idea. --NuclearVacuum 16:54, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Is that supposed to mean that you don't want me to have any part with the Outer Lands? As for Long Island, I highly dough that Long Island would be as bad a sight as you are claiming. Granted, the nuclear attacks on Brooklyn and Queens would most likely leave Nassau and portions of western Suffolk a fallout zone, I think that eastern Suffolk would be somewhat safer to live in. I think eastern Long Island has a better chance than would Cape Code (being closer to Boston which I think was nuked). --NuclearVacuum 17:11, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I still need approval from Arstrarpool, but I am happy to get your consent. I do also have some ideas for the Outer Lands as a whole. --NuclearVacuum 17:28, August 25, 2010 (UTC)


Since I started the idea, could I work on it with you? I wrote a bit about a scant few hiding out in the University and a couple more who fled Selma and New Montgomery on the Alabama page. Arstarpool 03:22, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Arstar, the idea is that there is no one in Auburn. Survivors in the region started a provisional state government there. Despite their efforts, and the efforts of others from Georgia, the government fell apart by the persistent work of racists who were, for all intents and purposes, terrorists. Not only did the government fall, but the city was torn apart by violence. Those who survived fled; no one stayed there, not even the instigators. There probably would have been a few who thought about staying, but after Doomsday those communities that survived did so by everyone working together. No one could have survived without food or water in a devastated town. The WCRB report on the southern US references the ruins of Auburn. There may be a few stragglers there, but hardly enough to form any type of coherent community. I suppose that doesn't prevent anyone from going back now or in this timeline's future to rebuild the town, but as of now there's no town there. BrianD 03:31, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

1983: Doomsday

Hey, I was just kidding; and I hardly contribute to 1983DD, anyway. :) - Mister Sheen 08:33, September 1, 2010 (UTC)


Hey Brian. Recently I've resumed work on North Pennsylvania and I could like to get it graduated some time this week. I have also posted a new map for State College, North Penn, and Reading showing the possible expansion for the state in the future. With your permission I would like to add some info on the Pennsylvania State article regarding how the state will be split up. I promise I will not write anything that will favor North Pennsylvania, but what I will write will be that North Penn will get the west and north and extreme south, State College the center and mid-north, and Reading the south and west. The major cities will be divided like this: Reading will get Philadephia and Scranton, State College will get Harrisburg, and North Penn will get Pittsburgh and Erie. Thoughts? Arstarpool 04:31, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Jnaycpa is attempting to make a nation in Connecticut. You should wave it down and have him turn it into an article about the state like I suggested on the talk page. Arstarpool 04:53, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

On a different note: You should look at the newest revision of the map of Plymouth. Tell me what you think. I am going to be awake until 1:30 EST so we should make our midnight chat quick. Arstarpool 05:06, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Owen

Oh hell... I saw that. Arstar seems to have denied him the right to do that and I'll back him up if Owen keeps editing the page. --GOPZACK 16:02, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

I went a little step farther and reverted his edits. Mitro 16:25, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if raleigh or charlotte was nuked

thank you for the info --Owen1983 17:30, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Hawaii

Yes, I think I can trust you with Hawaii ;). I know you'll respect what I wrote and all that. The "Ogasawara" storyline never quite reached a conclusion, but I don't know if that is what interests you or not.

I may actually be slightly more active in the next couple of weeks... I sense the Doomsday bug starting to catch on. But I don't plan to do much with Hawaii, so even if you see me editing you can feel free to write what you like. Benkarnell 16:11, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Ben. I saw what was going on elsewhere and didn't want someone who didn't give a rip for what you and editors like you did before, and use it to try to build their own little 1983:DD empire. There are a few other nations I wish I could have done the same for.
I do ask that you weigh in when the time comes on whether Hawai'i would rejoin the United States or stay affiliated with the ANZC. My feeling is Hawai'i in TTL would prefer the latter, and also the ANZC would not easily want to give up that territory.--BrianD 19:09, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
You know what, I'll leave that question to you. If I get involved at all with the United States I'll only get frustrated again. Benkarnell 02:52, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
No, no, you're not aggravating me. I just mean that when it comes to the USA, you don't have to worry about what I think. You probably are right, though, that when it comes to power politics Hawaii probably does not have complete freedom to toss ANZ at this point. Eventually, maybe, if the people wanted it - ANZ is a great power, but it is a democracy after all. But that would take many long years of wrangling. Events *there* don't run on Internet Time. Benkarnell 03:35, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

ideas for archdioceses/dioceses of North America

Diocese of Charleston - Virginian Republic Diocese of Elizabethtown - Kentucky, Archdiocese of Morristown - East Tennessee, Archdiocese of Superior Archdiocese of Midland Archdiocese of Manchester Archdiocese of Victoria Archdiocese of St. John's Diocese of Helena Diocese of Florence, Alabama --BrianD 03:05, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Off Wiki

Would it be alright if I sent you an email off wiki? I need to talk to you about something and I don't trust the thin veil of privacy that talk pages provides. Arstarpool 02:49, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

If it's wiki-related, I want to keep it on the talk pages. I don't currently have an email address set up for wiki use only, and wouldn't be able to set one up for a couple of hours. BrianD 02:52, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

No, it certainly has to do with the wiki but has to do with someone, I don't trust leaving it on a talk page. Arstarpool 02:55, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. Have you tried working things out with the person in question? BrianD 02:58, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Lexington, Kentucky

Its funny I was thinking of doing the same thing at some point down the line. If you'd like I can give you a hand with it when you do start up the article. --GOPZACK 20:24, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Great. So to answer your questions,

1. Lexington is a very important major city in Kentucky, a trading hub for commerce with Virginia, North Ridge, Peidmont, & Tennessee.

2. The population is around 400,000

3. Finally, here's a map I whipped together that should shed some light on the issue. It shows Virginian territory & the location of Lexington --ZACK 22:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

800px-Map of Kentucky highlighting Fayette County.svg.png


I had a random idea that I mentioned to Arstarpool and he told me it was your decision and not his. Anyway, I was thinking that maybe Plymouth would include the remaining portions of Cape Cod, the Vineyard, and Nantucket, uniting into a larger Commonwealth of Plymouth. While Long Island and Block Island would unite as the "Montauk Republic". Both nations would work together under the Association of the Outer Lands, but remain under their own sovereignty. It's just an idea, so please don't take it the wrong way. The only think I can't figure out is whether this would happen in the past, or be something more in the present of future. --NuclearVacuum 20:01, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

I don't have any major ideas on how this would take place. Maybe it would happen in the future, or would have happened recently. It was just an idea I wanted to see if you cause thought amusing. As for the Montauk Republic, I chose that name because of the region's significance after doomsday, and being the most populated regions of Long Island in TTL. I also thought that if Block Island were to be merged with Long Island, that calling the united entity "Long Island" was not right. Not too sure at the moment. I am still trying to figure out Long Island's place in TTL. --NuclearVacuum 01:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
Not to butt in, but if I were to allow Plymouth to go along with it, it must happen, at the very least in the very near future. Shooting along a Mid-Late 2011 date for divison/reorganization of the Outer Lands is my suggestion. But that's just me. Arstar [talk] 01:24, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Please, Arstar, use some punctuation. I fixed it so I could figure out what you were saying! Anyway, why is it that Plymouth is the "ruling factor" here? Should not viability and probability hold some weight in this group project? If the creators of Outer Banks and Long Island want it to happen, then it should be worked in to the time line. And there is no reason it should be in the future. You want a strong, united Massachusetts, and reclaiming Cape Cod and the islands is a logical thing to happen. Long Island and Block Island are not part of Massachusetts, so they would not be part of the unified state. I like the concept of Long and Block Islands uniting. I also had a fleeting picture of New Haven joining with the islands (as I've pointed out before 'proximity matters'). SouthWriter 01:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea. It allows Plymouth (Arstar) to unite the Massachusetts republics while allowing Block Island and Long Island to do their thing. I'm cool with that if everyone else is willing. I'm also open to any point in the timeline where this could happen, past, present or future.--BrianD 02:04, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Baxley & Neonotia

Brian, I have to admit, you can really tell a good story! I have been so distracted by the small stuff going on in the wiki that I haven't had a chance to work on any of my own stuff. Your framework with Carter and Baxley makes a good anchor to establish Neonotia as a commanding presense in the South.

If I put up a Taccoa proposal, could you perhaps create some characters up there as well. Remember, these guys have to be all as evil as Haness and his cronies. By the way, you did an excellent job of getting into the psychopath's head. The guys that trashed Athens and the University of Georgia (my alma mater) need to be capable of harboring enough hate for "diversity" to eventually murder over 4000 men, women, and children at one time, but be "normal" enough to pass as trustworthy contractors working on "improvements" to an aging auditorium.

Sorry to cut and paste. And to jump to a new subject in a note on how you have helped continue the story of Neonotia. Officials in Plains are going to have to make contact with the people in Darien as the new nation gets established. South Georgia will take well to the return of Carter, I think. If my father, a Republican, can work with him, I am pretty sure Neonotia has a chance! I won't do like Bob Mumby did with his grandfather, but I think dad can be worked in to Carter's first term at least (Secretary of the Interior - my father was a forester by trade, and a hunter by avocation). I haven't decided, though, if I will keep dad alive (he was struck and killed by an SUV last winter) in this time line, but I probably won't write his later life into the story either.

Keep up the good work. SouthWriter 03:01, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

RE: ANZC Parliament

That was a typo & I corrected it. I always thought the Integral territories had a unified Parliament & the external territories were administrated by Parliament but of course only the occupied ones had some form of representation. The associate states meanwhile govern themselves with their local affairs but use the ANZC dollar and rely on the ANZC military for protection. --Zack 19:29, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


Would Vermont be interested in joining the United Communities, listed as having become a member after the end of the Saguenay War along with Canada? Arstar 17:18, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Actually Canada (and possibly the Celtic Alliance if the wind blows the right way) is the most distant nation state. And what would attract Vermont? It's more of a "mom and pop" organization than the big time LoN. Everyone has equal representation, and its not divided between the two major powers of Australia and the South American countries. Oh and the timing? Well I wrote in that the UC representatives made their first official contact with many nations including LoN delegates at the signing of the Treaty of Manchester, so after the Saguenay War would be good timing. But do I have your green light? Arstar 17:28, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Nothing in particular.

On another note do you have any ideas for the Northern Townships? They could qualify for membership as the UC has a no rejection policy for legitimate entities but I don't know if that would be streching it. Arstar 17:42, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Nomination

No need to thank me friend, it was Oer that summed it up best saying, "Honestly, I didn't realize he wasn't already a mod." I don't want to get cocky but the chances of you "winning" the nomination are very very good. --Zack 05:31, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

To-do list, part 2

  • Auburn
  • Progress on Australia, New Zealand pages
  • update sports by country, colleges and universities page
  • Update Texas pages
  • Include note on formalizing San Angelo and Waco's territorial status in West Texas
  • George W. Bush - what to do with him? Perhaps he moves back to Texas to do business, prep for Presidential run in 16?
  • Investigate Vermont's role as Switzerland of North America and all its political ramification. What role will it have in the United Communities?
  • Set up Lexington, Kentucky article
  • develop bad guys for SouthWriter's Toccoa article
  • perhaps move to have the former CSA states join the Dixie Alliance, but Georgia joins the Appalachian Alliance or whatever South called it
  • Go to Wingman's wikis and give him a hand

BrianD 05:27, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in to your to-do list but couldn't it be possible for the CSA states plus the East Tennessee, Piedmont, and Blue Ridge unify into one republic/political/economic union? Think about it, if they do that they could possibly be one of the strongest nations in the United States. Arstar 06:15, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Hey Arstar. I understand why you would think that. That could happen, eventually, but it's not going to happen tomorrow. I think knowledge of the existence of a U.S. government out west have given people pause as to what the options are for their nationstates. An economic and trade alliance would happen first, then some sort of confederation while everyone figured out if being together or joining this new U.S. is the right thing to do. Even if you fast tracked unification, it won't happen for years. Suffice it to say the CS states are working together now and figuring out where they fit in with the rest of the American survivor states and the rest of the postDD world. BrianD 06:02, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
Has anyone considered the "part of the new US only in name" option? This wouldn't happen tommorrow either, but a random state could form ties with the new United States and declare themselves the State of Blue Ridge for example. But it would be a state only in name, and they would be mostly/completely self governing until the new US could actually take control or when travel and communications could become better. Arstar 06:15, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
That would not be an option, either. The Constitution does not provide for such an option. As one of the de facto caretakers for the region, I believe the various nation states will first join together either as a formal nation or under an alliance before they join any version of the United States. BrianD 17:12, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Northern townships

Well the NT has been independent for 27 years now. That is enough time for their own traditions and ideas to take hold, and they might not be willing to compromise them to join another nation. In fact if any nation is likely to be nuetral in the region it is likely to be them. Mitro 14:43, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

I like the name. Its a good official name for the country while the short-hand is just Northern townships. Mitro 15:18, October 15, 2010 (UTC)


No problem, I'll just edit the edit the Sitenotice bar reminding people to vote. Mitro 20:15, October 15, 2010 (UTC)


I like that idea. I think Sumrall would go with the highest authority figure of the old United States. That being Alabama Governor Baxley. I also like the idea of him heading an expedition up the East Coast. I think Sumrall might have had a part in the organizing of the provisional Virginia (or as the Virginians call it "East Virginia") state government. Immigrants to Virginia gain citizenship like how the locals earn the right to vote. By serving two tours of duty with the Virginian armed forces. The rationale is that in order to gain citizenship, you need to prove that that you are going to be loyal enough to be trustworthy. I don't know anything about Sumrall. I used him because he was pretty much the only high ranking old US military official who could have survived Doomsday. Most of the Generals (be they Army, Air Force, Navy or Marines) died in the destruction of the Pentagon along with Washington DC.

Yank 23:25, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

You forget, though, that Sumrall was only a Captain in the National Guard on Sept. 25, 1983. He would become a General many years later. His work overseas had a lot to do with his rising to "power" in OTL 2002. The plan to have him get to "East Virginia" is a good one. If he is working under Carter, that will be before 1992. In this period in OTL, Sumrall was buiding a reputation in US missiles and such (much of the time in Germany). He was promoted to Lt. Colonel in 1989 (full Col, in 1994). In TTL, he would have been invaluable in organizing the survivors in Virginia. By 1996 he would have made a good "rival" to Thompson when he came to town.
As for "most of the generals" perishing in and around Washington, DC, that is probably a hard assumption to make. More than likely, most generals were at bases that were struck, but relatively few were stationed at the Pentagon. If we are thinking of the "top brass," maybe they would be there, or maybe not. But when it comes to where the generals of 2010 were in there earlier careers, it appears that a lot of them had indeed been stationed in primary and secondary targets. Sumrall was one of the lucky ones, I guess. SouthWriter 01:04, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

South, thanks for the background on Sumrall. Being a captain in the national guard wouldn't be any worse than being a captain of the state police...therefore Sumrall could claim to at least be equal in rank to the good captain of the State Army Harness himself. I need someone to head up the U.S. Army contingent, and Sumrall works as well as anyone. --BrianD 02:52, October 22, 2010 (UTC)


Membership badge of the TSPTF

Congratulations, you are now a Lieutenant in the TSPTF. This allows you to showcase the TSPTF membership badge on your user page. Furthermore it gives you administrator powers on this wiki. I would like to spend sometime discussing those powers:

  • You should now notice a red button at the top of every article with the word "Delete". You can use this to delete articles, obviously. Use this power sparingly and always stay within the framework of the Deletion Policy. The policy itself was passed with little discussion, so if you have any suggestions or comments regarding it I would be glad to hear it.
  • You can also block users from editing. This can be done by clicking on the History page for articles or the Contributions tab on editor's user pages. Again, use this sparingly. This is our most destructive tool. We don't have a policy on this, but there is a general custom that has been followed: always assume good faith with edits (unless obviously vandalism), warn before blocking (try using the three strikes approach) and start with short block durations for first time offendors. Generally other administrators will not interfere with your decisions regarding blocks, as long as it appears fair on its face. Permanent blocks, however, must be brought before the TSPTF as a whole and will only be confirmed if there is a 2/3 approval.
  • You will also notice a button on the top of every article that says "Protect". With this you can prevent certain people from editing a single article. The first level prevents anons and new users from editing an article. The second level limits editing only to administrators. Use this to prevent excessive vanadalism or to prevent edit wars between users.
  • In the History page of an article you will notice a new option called "rollback". This is an anti-vandalism tool. It allows you to quickly undo edits in case someone has made more than one edit to a page. By clicking rollback it will immediately revert the article to a time before the offending editor edited the page.
  • There are other obscure powers that are not used often. If you have any questions on those or the ones I mentioned above, feel free to ask me.

Finally if you go to the TSPTF page, you will notice that we have a list of Responsibilities. In reality, none of us have the time to devote to all of the duties that are expected of an administrator of the wiki. You are expected, however, to sign up for at least three responsibilities listed in that section. These are duties that you are agreeing to carry out to the best of your ability every time you are on this wiki. I'm hoping that by doing this the members of the TSPTF can efficiently share the work load of the wiki and gives us time for the real reason we are here.

Again, congratulations on being elected to the TSPTF and good luck. Mitro 14:13, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Back Off

Seriously what the hell is wrong with you? You have been attacking me the whole day over the most petty things and this isn't the first time you've done this. I understand you may be mad but look back at all your comments on every talk page and you come back and tell me what you think. Claiming somebody thinks they're the chief administrator and supreme ruler of the timeline is kind of rude if you ask me. Your claims that I sneak articles by when nobody is looking is pure bull. I admit I did that twice in my early days here but really? Most of the time nobody cares about the proposal and it just sits there collecting dust, so I go through the legitimate graduation procedure and since nobody bothered to glance or comment on the article, what else am I supposed to do? Wait for someone to object months later? And don't get me started on the whole "the laws bend for me because I'm special!" thing you said. All I wanted to do was graduate Ogasawara and you start ranting on how rotten I am. That's pretty unprofessional. You got a problem you leave it on my talk page.

Anyways I am not here to scream and rant and do to you what you did to me. But I have one other comment to make. Your claims I try to take over the "world" of 1983DD is highly hypocritical. Aren't you the guy that shaped the fate of all of the South, Vermont, and about 5 other states? It just kind of bothers me you would say something like that to me when you kind of did the same thing. Arstar 02:31, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Republic of Superior

I've noticed you have Superior listed as one of your articles. I know I let you co-caretake the article a while back, but I don't want to sound like a prick who wants credit for everything but you kinda forgot to mention me and Lordganon who did almost all the work not done by Lahbas. Thats all. Arstar 22:38, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Elizabeth City

Hope you don't mind but I added some content to this article. I expanded on my original idea for the Second Battle of Elizabeth City and added some material for an Economy section. Apparently the town has some airship manufacturing abilities and considering post-Doomsday America lacks good road and rail, the town has the potential to become a major economic hub due to its ability to build airships for interior survivor states.

Any ideas for expanding the article, especially on Brazil's shadowy operations in the area? Mitro 13:57, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think EC would be building airships by the time Brazil arrived. I think they would need help for that. I was thinking that Brazil would keep it secret because they were planning to set up EC as a colony. Not only would they not tell the world, but they would lie to the EC government about how bad Doomsday really was. Meanwhile they build up the town and get their supporters into power. Some anti-Brazilians decide to do something before it is to late and send a secret expedition into the interior. They make contact with some survivors and some WCRB guys and eventually Mexico gets word of it. Since Mexico probably would not like the idea of a South American nation having a colony in North America, they raise a stink and Brazil backs down after news reaches the EC population about the truth of Doomsday. Anyway that was just my idea.
By the way, what exactly is the relationship between the Outer Banks and EC? Mitro 17:36, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. As for the Outer Banks, I asked because it appeared from the North Carolina article that they were once a part of that state, but it was unclear. Mitro 18:44, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Brian. I am trying to find out just where the idea of Brazil finding Elizabeth City came from. The mention on the WCRB report makes it seem like you were writing it in as an event previously reported. However, there is no mention of the exploration in the Brazilian article, nor on the time line article. I know you were not inventing things when you wrote the report, but if it has become a very hard thing to maintain given the Outer Banks article. There is no way that Brazilian boats could get past the OB without being detected. If they did get in by air (???) they still would have noticed the OB - and not to mention being noticed themselves. A prolonged presense would not work because there is no way in without coming past the OB.
I don't see how we can maintain the existience of both the OB and the Brazilian explorers. I know that the explorers were mentioned first, and in the "document" that is our standard, but it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Should we ditch the OB (a fine article, IMHO) or quietly excise the Brazilians? SouthWriter 04:06, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

IBM and Binghamton

Brian, I traced the optimism of the return of computing to North America to what you wrote concerning Binghamton in the New York article and a note on Binghamton's talk page. Arstar has grabbed it and run with it, having scores of computer scientists writing night and day in candlelight (or flashlight) in the early years, etc. to preserve computer science for the world. He writes that all other computer science in the world was far inferior to what these men preserved in this way.

I have two problems with this. First, IBM was no longer "headquartered in" Binghamton. They had a regional office there, but international offices had moved to NYC in 1938! Second, IBM had major compettion in the early 1980's. And finally, IBM was a multinational company which certainly must have had offices in South America and Australia and/or New Zealand.

Since it was your suggestion, how about checking the Binghamton, United Communities, and the Talkpage of Science and Technology. SouthWriter 03:20, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I got most of what you said I "grabbed and ran with" from Brian's own New York State, which mentions the scientists writing the things down on paper and stuff. And what I meant by the "all other computers were inferior" is that the computers in the 1983 era were better than the ones existing today ATL.

A little justification never hurts. Arstar 04:06, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

  • You know, Arstar, I came to this talk page as to not but into your work at the UC or Binghamton. My point was to have Brian look into it so as to get a better idea of what his research had garnered concerning Binghamton (see below). And as for the 1983 era computers being better than those that would have developed elsewhere over the course of two decades, I have to respectively disagree. Redundancy in record keeping -- design, data, and such -- is part of the computer culture.
  • The research and development that had gone into the computers of the early eighties was available world-wide. The experts in ANZC and SAC, as well as in the Remainder Provinces for that matter, would not allow the science to stagnate and digress. IBM was not tied to NYC - it was International (the "I" of "IBM"). I don't doubt that whatever scientists who survived would seek to preserve what they knew - even in isolated city-states without the means to continue the work. However, computer technology today in TTL would indeed be superior to what had developed up to 1983. SouthWriter 17:31, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

My research indicated that IBM was headquartered in Binghamton on Doomsday. It's late, so what I've done is look up IBM and Binghamton on Wikipedia. And it looks like I erred at least in having Binghamton as the TTL HQ of IBM on 9.25.83.

The other thing is I did intend to imply that the scientists there tried to keep as much knowledge of computers, etc. as possible and not allow such knowledge to be lost to the proverbial ages.

I had no intention to overlook the work of South American and Australian companies in the computer field. Indeed, if there is an Internet/REMUNDO, and to the extent computers are being used and developed, it's being done (IMO) by South American and ANZC companies, governments and researchers primarily, perhaps with contributions by the relative handful of American researchers who managed to escape to Mexico. Probably very recently researchers from Europe, Singapore, Taiwan, North America (Binghamton) are beginning to make contributions to R&D.

What we need to determine is what was in Binghamton at IBM on 9.25.83. I would argue that if anyone there had knowledge that would be useful in aiding the government and rebuilding society, they would have made an effort to maintain it, even if it was by candlelight and paper. I am with Arstar on that point.BrianD 05:56, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

  • As you can see, Arstar responded before you did! So I answered him in line above. As for the development of computers in SAC and ANZC, I am sure that governments and academia would have encouraged the study of computer science from early on, depending on research materials available in universities and government agencies throughout the "first world." The latest innovations might not have been available, but the principles were. GUI, for example, had just been introduced in the Apple Lisa (far too expensive, but available). The research was "out there," and would have been built upon.
  • However, since many computer researchers and engineers who survived (in Binghamton or wherever) would certainly have known that their knowledge could help in a "brave new world" that might emerge from the ashes. They would dream of picking themselves up, dusting themselves off and getting back to life as they had known it. Their pride would keep them from going back to pre-computer days (say 1945 or so) and living a less complicated life. The public was just getting used to computers, and they would have jobs! SouthWriter 17:31, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

South and Arstar, thanks for the feedback. So: what do you guys suggest be done regarding clarifying the history of the IBM subsidiary in Binghamton, and the Internet? We've revised scenarios before to reflect a more realistic view of things, and no reason not to do so here.BrianD 02:18, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

  • Well, Binghamton has promise, seeing that it survived and a culture of technology survived there. I think that the first thing they would have done is make sure any manuals and schematics they had were safe. They would have then collaborated to share any insights that they had that might help rebuild the industry when -- or if -- they got a chance. A generation later, when the power grid was up and communication with surrounding communities became more common, their successors -- students and children probably -- would have some "intellectual currency" to be part of the new world which evolved into the UC. contact with Canada would have given them an outlet to the LoN and they could get updated as to where computing had advanced without them.
  • As for computing in SAC and ANZC, i figure the REMUNDO system -- Probably on par with the Apple computers of the late 90's -- would be competing with the ANZC system (lets call it the Great Global Grid [GGG] or just "the Grid" for short). The computers of the ANZC might be comparable to perhaps the IBM clones running some sort of DOS based on GUI with computing power equal to PC's of say 2000 or so. "Windows" may not have been created, but I am aquainted with some "Geeks" that grew up in Australia and New Zealand so I have no doubts that they would have come up with something.
  • If nothing else, the APA would have encouraged the Grid -- based on long distance radio if nothing else -- to hold the wide spread remnant in the Pacific together.. The ANZC would have followed suit. Technologically, computing power would probably have decent - but not high definition "true color" - graphics. Perhaps 16-bit would be possible. Think Windows 98, without the Windows. Maybe Donkey Kong or Mario Brothers graphics would be the norm. The point being, the technology would not go backward, but might increase a bit slower with most of the premier computer scientists silenced. SouthWriter 05:43, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Works for me!BrianD 17:15, November 30, 2010 (UTC)



Lordganon 22:49, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

To-do list, part 3

  • FINISH Auburn!!!!!!
  • Make amends with anyone on the wiki I need to and should
  • Resume full, active participation on the wiki - where can I help the most
  • Progress on Australia, New Zealand pages (including updating with info on recent OTL Cyclone that hit Queensland - how does this, on top of the Christchurch earthquake and the Queensland floods, impact the ANZC economy?)
  • update sports by country, colleges and universities page
  • Update Texas pages
  • Include note on formalizing San Angelo and Waco's territorial status in West Texas
  • George W. Bush - what to do with him? Perhaps he moves back to Texas to do business, prep for Presidential run in 2016?
  • Investigate Vermont's role as Switzerland of North America and all its political ramification. What role will it have in the United Communities?
  • Set up Lexington, Kentucky article
  • develop bad guys for SouthWriter's Toccoa article, if he wishes more help with that
  • perhaps move to have the former CSA states join the Dixie Alliance, but Georgia joins the Appalachian Alliance or whatever South called it

BrianD 02:25, February 6, 2011 (UTC)


Not a problem. If you're ever messing with a company or such in the future, just search for the "infoxbox company", and you'll find it ^^ Lordganon 00:11, February 18, 2011 (UTC)


Hey Brian I understand that real life can sometimes take you away from this place and I am cool with that. I have seen you participate in discussions and as long as you keep doing that and also trying your best to meet the responsibilities you signed up for, I have no complaint with you. Mitro 20:02, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

On "A Traitor's Reward"


I think I may put the article up for adoption if I may contribute to it in the near future.

If you wish, may modify the timeline.

Thank you for asking me.


Abuyyid Empire

Go ahead and put it up for adoption.

StarkBlack 22:26, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

The former Beatles

Thanks for you comment...I am thinking about revising the dates a little, I am just kinda of putting out a rough draft so I have a direction to head in...If you wish to add any more input PLEASE do!!!


No worries, Brian - I honestly probably should have not singled you out like that, you're not the only one I thought was around at the time, or afterwards. Apologies. Lordganon 19:35, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

East Tennessee as the West's Self-defence Capital

Lol the title sort of says it all. I was creating a page on martial arts for Doomsday, and I was leafing through a few ideas and I thought East Tennessee would be a good location to have a revival in martial arts. Mostly the post-doomsday conditions and the interest in martial arts in Tennessee are the main factors. It would be used by average people to defend against unrest caused by doomsday. Would you be okay with me incorporating that into my article? (-unsigned: Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) )

Okay here it is. Any disputes? Detectivekenny (Info; Talk) 05:06, March 26, 2011 (UTC)


Hey Brian, my friend GB went and created his own wiki, and he wants to make me an admin, but he doesn't know how, could you tell me or him? Flag of South Korea.pngPitaKang- (Talk|Contribs) 01:52, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

It is not a copy of 1983:DD. It is a central TL, with several PoDs. We don’t know them yet. Flag of South Korea.pngPitaKang- (Talk|Contribs) 02:13, March 29, 2011 (UTC)


I am leaving a apology there, and dropping my concerns.I do have one question though.Since you are alright with them having the TL as long as they don't copy and claim wholesale, I am going to create my own version of a ISOT event in the DD timeline.

God Bless the United States of America 18:12, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Brian, I respect you, but for you to trash and take everything I said out of context is unaccecptable.

"GB, while I appreciate that you apologized, I also want to say a simple apology would have sufficed."

What does that mean?

"Your remarks about complaints from other editors are not quite true. LG only said he'd prefer they not have done it. Yours is the only true complaint I have seen so far on the topic."

LG said he didn't like it, that can be taken as a complaint.

"Also, you worded things in a way that you implied I was one of the complainers, and that is not true."

You took me out of context.I only said you started the conversation, which is true.To say otherwise would be lying.

"It was not your place to take action, especially in the manner you did, and implying you represented the community. You are not an admin, and we have not authorized you to'take action' or otherwise speak on behalf of the brass, and the other admins. We certainly don't want you doing anything that might spark a totally unnecessary flame war."

You even said I could disagree.Also, how can a Wiki admins police what I do/say on other Websites? I apologized and dropped the manner.Now, you don't have the right to punish me for something I already fixed, and left alone.Yes, it was Wiki Business orginially, now its not.

"As far as your ISOT proposal, I hope you understand that, given some of your past actions, that may be something the other admins have more of an opinion about than what Ming and Mann are doing"

My parents always talked about people trying to have it both ways, this is one of the biggest examples I have ever seen.Past actions, what are you talking about?How can you guys have more of a opinion of it, when you refuse to deal with the people who started this in the first place? I am just going to use it as the backdrop of the TL, just like Ming and Mann.This is unfair completely Brian.

Now, this is the last I am going to say on the subject.I don't like fighting with you because I have always respected you.I apologized, and dropped it.I would like the favor returned.Let's get back to writing articles.

God Bless the United States of America 23:56, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Thats my ISOT for your review, so you can be assured.

God Bless the United States of America 20:32, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

GBTUSA discussion

I saw my name come up. What happened? Benkarnell 13:47, April 26, 2011 (UTC)



Championship Wrestling - Lexington, Kentucky (likely successor to Jarrett Promotions - run by the wrestlers who were in Evansville Indiana on Doomsday (THE KING!) - and Poffo's ICW 'outlaw' promotion in Lexington (MACHO MAN!)

Maple Leaf Wrestling - St. John's

Florida Championship Wrestling - Gainesville

Lone Star Wrestling - Midland

Stampede Wrestling - Lethbridge

USA Wrestling - Torrington

Championship Wrestling from Victoria - Victoria

Toledan Championship Wrestling - Toledo

Virginian Wrestling - Charleston

Georgia Wrestling - Rome (NWA member)

East Tennessee Wrestling - Knoxville (NWA member)

Blue Ridge Wrestling - Asheville (NWA member)

Mid-Atlantic Wrestling - Piedmont (NWA member)

Delmarva Wrestling - Delmarva (NWA member)

Louisiana Wrestling - Lafayette

East Texas Wrestling - Nachogdoches

Championship Wrestling from Superior - Stowe

BrianD 23:07, May 8, 2011 (UTC)


Any chance that you might be interested in a Brass position? ;) Lordganon 06:00, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

Done. All you need to do is accept the nomination. Lordganon 23:16, May 17, 2011 (UTC)


Hey Brian, sorry to bother you.

I was wondering if you could find me the old map that used to be for Doomsday, the one used right before we adopted LG's Map.I can seem to find it, so I was hoping you could.

Thanks a bunch, God Bless the United States of America 00:30, May 25, 2011 (UTC)


Membership badge of the TSPTF

Congratulations, you are now a Brass in the TSPTF. In addition to your previous abilities as a Lieutenant, you can now adjust user rankings along with other behind-the-scenes administrative duties.

You have been conferred the title "High Adjudicator of the Hviezda Hory," but feel free to change it as you desire.

Again, Congratulations.

Lordganon 03:38, June 1, 2011 (UTC)


Please, please, again I say please, look over DetectiveKenny's 1983DD article on the Spanish province of Castellon. Check out LG's sometime caustic critique of the article and Kenny's attempts at reconciling the article not just to canon but to what seems to me a 'brutal' realism. I have tried my best to moderate what seems to be a vendetta on the part of LG against this article. Having seen Kenny's hard work, I am in favor of graduating the thoroughly vetted article. LG stands in the way. Kenny wants a 'fourth opinion.' SouthWriter 04:58, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'll definitely look at it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. BrianD 05:18, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Brian. It's me again. Your brief appearance on the Castellón talk page was not followed up upon. It has seen no activity since then. What do you say? How can we get this graduated. Any changes you suggest, short of rubber stamping LG I suppose, would be acceptable to Kenny. He wants - and needs - a little relief from an 'unbiased' third (fourth, if you consider my opinion different from Kenny's) opinion. Personally, I think the article still too optimistic for LG's taste, but no more so than the success of Superior or Virginia in their rise to canon. --SouthWriter 03:47, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

As I said, he makes it sound like it's a well-off paradise, which I said is not possible, and you agreed that there's a certain point that it cannot cross. What we are waiting for is your opinion, after reading the article, as to if that is true or not. Lordganon 17:31, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

Independent Mexican space program proposal

Hello, Southwriter recommended that I talk to you about an article proposal on the 1983DD timeline.

this is my idea:

First, I would like to apologize for earlier and now. I'm entirely new at this, as some of you could already tell. Please excuse me, if I make any mistakes in procedure. I did my best to follow instructions.

Also, I'm not sure if I can still propose this idea, but I'll give it the old college try.

The idea that I would like to be incorporated into the timeline was of an independent Mexican space program apart from the LoN Space Authority. I thought of Mexico having the highest influx of American refugees in the world I thought, how about scientists too? Mainly survivors from NASA facilities in Texas, Alabama, and if possible even Florida. Though, SouthWriter was right about not talking 28 years to start a space program in Mexico. I believe that due to the chaos during the first Post DD years, the 1985 Mexico earthquake and the Yucatan War would have delayed such a movement from getting too much political support. Also, Mexico would have a significant head start on their space program do the many NASA technicians having settled in Mexico Post DD.

I think that Mexico would recognize that the SAC and USSR could have a technological advantage by having their active space programs. It would give Mexico a goal to reach and could stimulate the Mexican economy as well as a technological edge. Also, it start a Post DD space race. The only thing that they would lack is a spaceport, which I think could be place in a OTL Naval Facility in Anton Laredo, about 10 miles from Veracruz City. Its reminiscent of the old Kennedy Space Center. When I read the original Space Exploration 1983 DD article, I thought that if possible that Mexico could send an astronaut into earth orbit by 2015.

I also Thought that the way that Mexico could start its own space program would be by a collaboration of pre-existing reseach going on at the Universidad Autonoma de Mexico (UNAM) (National Autonomous University of Mexico) surviving NASA technicians and scientests trying to continue what they started in the former US.

Also this was the article that I accidentaly spammed on the WCRB page:

The startling announcement was made in the Mexican congress as Felipe Calderon along with Rodolfo Neri Vela, Robert Zubrin and other former NASA employees. Mexico will form the Instituto Mexicano Aeronautico Espacial (The Mexican Institute of Space and Aeronautics). As Robert Zubrin spoke in congress today. “The institute is the informal successor of NASA, continuing where the former United States had left off. To continue the legacy of human space exploration on to the future.” President Calderon also called toward the goal of having humans back to space by 2015.

TV Azteca covered the news, interviewing many of the key participants. Many of them replied saying that thanks to the collaboration with the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) (National Autonomous University of Mexico) and former NASA employees made the formation of MISA possible. Their main headquaters in Anton Laredo (about 10 miles from Veracruz City) will starr its formal construction early next month, pending MISA's formal opening in February 2012.

Though, rumors have surfaced in La Jornada and Reforma news papers about a possible successor of the American Space Shuttle.

I really hope you like this idea, and well I also hope I can still propose it. I have other ideas as well that I would like to propose in the near future. Libra-11 00:51, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Its me again, I read your comments and you are right. The goals were a but over ambitious. I when I mention the space shuttle, I didn't mean the actual spacecraft. It was a mistake in my part. I tried to inply was that a successor to the space shuttle was just rumors. What I should to had explain is the one of the goals that the Mexican space program would be a space plane or a Zero G flight. Nothing that could achieve orbital flight, but would get people outside the atmosphere. Something like OTL Spaceship One. Satellite delivery would be one of the immediate short term goals. I personally feel that it wouldn't take till 2030 for human space flight. Some of the reasons why is because its had been done before. The knowledge still there to do it. Also from the description of the nuclear detonations, There's a couple of NASA facilities that would have survived one of them being White Sands Test Facility in Las Cruzes, New Mexico. (From what I read, it looked like that area was not nuked)

Also, I'm not sure if you'll like this idea, but what about a one man capsule orbital flight, like the early Mercury missions in the 1960's? I believe that Mexico could achieve that in a decade, of course after their spaceport becomes operational, Though the SAC or Siberians could do it first, due to their already operating facilities.

One more subproposal I would like to add. STS-8 Challenger Space Shuttle was launched in August 30th, 1983 and landed in Edward Air Force Base on September 5, 1983. The orbiter was scheduled to be moved back to the Orbiter Processing Facility at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida on September 26, 1983. The Shuttle was transported on top the Shuttle Carrier Craft, around 21:05pm EDT the pilots received the disturbing news of a nuclear attack. They kept enroute until they lost communications at 21:15pm EDT (They flew over the gulf coast when it happened). Thinking that the Kennedy Center was either destroyed or in chaos they made the decision to turn southwest to Mexico, hoping that a working airport might had survived the Nuclear attack. The Boing 747 Shuttle Carrier safely landed in the Tampico international airport at 2:34am EDT on September 27.

Today the Challenger Space Shuttle is in exhibition in the American Survivors Museum in Mexica City, Mexico.

Its just a little thing I thought it could have been plausible under the DD circumstances. I hope you like it too and thanks for liking my previous idea also. Libra-11 03:15, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Wanted to note here that the points you brought up on Libra's page just now were all covered on the main page already. To sum, however, White Sands was nuked - La~ is on the strike list - and Challenger was at CC undergoing post-landing inspections. You may want to have a look there. So you know. Lordganon 06:16, July 26, 2011 (UTC)
I tried to post to the Doomsday main talk page and came against an upload problem, so I will post what I found about the Space Shuttle program in September of 1983 on this page:

About the Shuttle, I wrote the following offline, preparing to post when I could, It has to do with not Challenger, but its new-born 'baby sister' Discovery.
The Shuttle was at the Orbiter Processing Facility (note picture caption "September 1983") at KSC when the inspection was done, having been transported there at least a week prior to the inspection, which was finishing up on the post-flight inspection. Libra's information, unfortunately, is flawed. Perhaps it is the inspection that was scheduled to be completed on September 26th, and Libra assumed that had been at Edwards.
There would not have been time to move the orbiters in storage at the OPF facilities in Florida before the center was destroyed. Even if Reagan had declared it a priority, it could not have been done. Unfortunately, the two space shuttles there were destroyed. However, remarkably, the Discovery had not left the facilities in Palmdale, CA, where, on August 12th, it had undergone its final testing before overland transport to Edwards Air Force Base in November of 1983. Palmdale is separated from Los Angeles by the San Gabriel Mountain Range and so would be shielded from destruction. There is no telling the fate of the orbiter or anything else after that, but this could be a factor in whatever transpired with Mexico and its involvement in any "space race" in the 21st century of TTL. SouthWriter 16:28, July 26, 2011 (UTC)
Lancaster-Palmdale is listed as having been hit in its own right, so Discovery'd be gone too. Lordganon 17:08, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Superman and other Comics

I am interested in expanding on some of your ideas on the American Comics publishing page, including Superman. I have created a page featuring different comic lines (Last Son of Krypton; The idea that you made where Superman leaves. I also created an Earth-1 and Earth-2 storyline since it didn't seem very 'heroic' if Superman left Earth when its citizens really needed his help). I got approval from Lordganon, but it just seems proper to ask you for permission to canonize it. Superman (1983: Doomsday)

CrimsonAssassin 16:46, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


Very well indeed, glad I could help. --XterrorX 16:44, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Edit to News Article

Hi, Brian. I decided to ask forgiveness instead of permission. I noticed that you had Joplin being attacked by recently recognized Springfield and asking military aid from "Kentucky and Cape Girardeau." I figured that since they received aid from Hannibal after the tornado, they'd ask for military assistance from them as well. Therefore, I added Hannibal (recognized at the same time as Springfield, I believe) to the news item. If LG doesn't revert it first, I hope you don't mind the change. And if he does revert it, please consider keeping the change, since it can be assumed that Hannibal would be involved in helping a fellow Missourian city. SouthWriter 16:26, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

My son, you are forgiven. :)

Thanks for adding Hannibal, which I had forgotten about. BrianD 23:01, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

I would like your input if you have the time.

Brian, as a longtime contributor to the Doomsday scenario, I would like to get your input concerning an issue I have posted in the fundamental section when you have the time. It deals with some serious concerns I have about post war communication. I do not believe my concerns are implausible as LG believes so I would like feedback from the older writers. Thanks.--Fxgentleman 01:09, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Batman (1983: Doomsday)

Hey, I was wondering if you'd be okay with an article about Batman, similar to the Superman article I wrote a while back*. Here is the proposed article: Batman (1983 Doomsday). It not only tells about Batman and the comic books, but also Gotham Knights, which was mentioned on the American Comics page. CrimsonAssassin 00:44, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

  • in issue #1

Go ahead and knock yourself out! --BrianD 01:11, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Can I Get Your Imput Regarding Two Questions Involving Hawaii?

Brian, I noted you are listed as the current caretaker for Hawaii. As such, I would like very much to get your imput on something. When you have the time, please come over to the main page and read the discussion we are having in the fundamental section regarding the USS Nimitz. I raised two questions which involve HI and would like to get your thoughts. Thanks.--Fxgentleman 02:03, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Brian, I agree with your sentiments regarding the site. The inherent problem with this type of set-up can lead to misunderstandings and confusion among writers where as a simple verabl realtime conversation could eliminate issues and speed up things. I do a great deal of analytical writing and discussion in my line of work and I often find it is better to sit down with my colleagues and simply have a verbal discussion rather than spending pages or a lengthy email explaining something and it helps avoid misunderstandings. That was why I took the step of setting up Skype so I could talk verbally with another writer. It has worked for us and I think it is a great tool. However, I realize not everybody is into it. Its a shame something like that could not have been built into the system, although I do know about the live chat feature it doesn't strike me as the same. --Fxgentleman 10:44, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Hi Brian, since I understand you will likely be doing the rewrite on the Nimitz/Commonwealth article, please let me know if you would like me to provide any of the information I have gathered on the Carl Vinson. If you are interested, just drop me a message when you can via my email which is on my profile page and I will be glad to send them to you. A few are PDFs. Good luck.--Fxgentleman 21:21, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Brian, he misunderstood something I told him. While I think at this point you are the only person that can actually do the small changes needed and keep everyone reasonable, we're not saying you have to do anything. Note that what I told Fx was that I thought it would fall to you, not that you were likely to do it or such a thing.

Mind, I'd like you to do it, lol.

Lordganon 00:36, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

If I misunderstood my error. However, since I have the research on the Vinson it seems a shame to waste it so I would like to give it to who ever is doing the article to help them out. --Fxgentleman 01:11, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Nice to know that I got volunteered for this particular task :)

That isn't a problem, particularly if it helps keep the peace. I will need to clearly understand the timeline of the revision, which as I understand it is:

  • USS Vinson somewhere in the Pacific when the exchange occurs
  • It travels to Okinawa to determine the extent of the destruction at the US base there, and on Japan in general
  • The Vinson then travels to Micronesia to confirm what they believe to be the situation in Guam, and determine the situation in the Northern Mariana Islands as well as give any aid it can to the people there
  • Having established contact with the NMI territorial government, the Vinson makes its way to Hawaii, eventually making contact with the Hilo city government on the Big Island around between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
  • Sometime afterwards, the Vinson establishes contact with the Australian Navy and with Mount Weather (perhaps through Mexico). The Vinson establishes a temporary base in Pohakuola, until the Gathering Order on June 1 1984.
  • The French frigate would lead the NATO Atlantic ships to Australia.

One additional thought: not to put additional work on FX :) but I wonder if one of the French aircraft carriers, like the Clemenceau or the Foch, could be substituted for the Nimitz? The only thing I've been able to find is that the Foch and Clemenceau rotated in and out of Lebanon at the time.


BrianD 04:26, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Hi Brian, unfortunately I can tell you with certainty the Foch was off the coast of Lebanon on the date in question because of the extensive research I did. I have been pondering your thought as to who could lead the flotilla and studying the data I could find. The Clemenceau would definitely have been in the Mediterranean, whether it would be in port or at sea I can't tell you. I have been researching it and thus far I can not find anything positive as to location. It disappears from the press reports until Oct 1983 when it showed up in Lebanon after the terrorist attacks on the MNF. But I will keep looking for you.

I have been looking at other possible ships which you could substitute. The British carriers Hermes and Illustrious were scheduled to be the Aegean Sea for war exercises at the time. When I wrote the MNF article I stated the NATO ships engaged in the exercises there were destroyed since I seemed too good a target for the Soviets. The third carrier, Invincible, was supposedly in the Med at the time according to the article I read but it never elaborated further and I never had a chance to follow up. Following your question I did some deep digging and found on 9/22/83 it was scheduled to traverse the Suez Canal and enter the Indian Ocean and head to the Far East for a seven month voyage. My research also turned up a Spanish aircraft carrier called the Dedalo. ( Where it was I can't say.

These are just thoughts for likely candidates. As South pointed out about the Gathering Order a British carrier might have gone to New Britain. With the Spanish carrier, if it survived then it might have hung with the survivor government likely. I hope some of this helps. Oh, I got your message and will respond.

Your thoughts seem good on the Vinson. I have a suggestion or two I will post seperate from this shortly. --Fxgentleman 01:06, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

I got them, and will take a look at them asap. Thanks!

Request for Your Assistance as Moderator

Brian, I would like to request your assistance as a moderator with a problem as time and convenience allows. A serious disagreement has erupted between me and LG, to the point it has gotten nasty. Given you are an outsider with no stake in the discussion, albeit a neutral view point, I am asking if you would review our discussions and give us your thoughts. I have no intentions of posting anything further regarding the subject than what I have unless asked. I will adhere to your judgment. I will also asking Southwriter if he will moderate as well. There is no rush. Our discussion may be found under the Nimitz section on the main discussion page. Thank you for your time and I look forward to your thoughts.--Fxgentleman 12:34, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

For the record, Brian, he is the one that went nasty. Not myself. Nor is there any "serious disagreement," in the end. Lordganon 14:50, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

New IOC headquarters

Hi Brian! I read in the IOC article about the definition of the new headquarter of the organism, between the two options: Chile and the Alpine Confederation. This sounds interesting. :) Given that 2012 is coming soon, how exactly this will be realized? Regards! --Katholico 02:58, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Well, i must said that i like the possibility that Chile could be the HQ from a important org. like the IOC. Obviously, this would add another change in the DD-World with South America being headquarters from two sport organisms as this and the FIFA. Just is my opinion. :) Thanks for answer. Regards --Katholico 03:36, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Cuban "colony" at Savannah

Hi, Brian. I hope you had a Merry Christmas. I would like to share this proposal with you before I post it next week. Vlad and I have been discussing "Cola Grande" and its history as a perloined formula from the ruins of Atlanta in what came to be a "crowded" state! I figured if the Cubans had come up the Savanah, they could have made a port in Savannah and used I-16 and then I-75 to get to Atlanta. Meanwhile, they establish an outpost on the ruins of Savannah and name it Puerto de Savannah. I have put the proposal up in my Sandbox for you and Vlad to evaluate. By the way, I "photo-shopped" Savannah for a couple of photos to go with the article. Since they are created this year, if you like either one, feel free to nominate them for "Best Photoshopped" because I doubt if they will be eligilble next year. :-) SouthWriter 21:19, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

1983 Texas

As you may have heard, I'm working on a new version of my map. Since it's not concrete, I have to ask: is the State of South Texas going to be part of the republic, at first? And, if not, will it be joining it soon? Lordganon 07:58, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

New Vermont Article

A new user created an article on Vermont: Vermont Census of 2009. Thought you should know. Mitro 15:14, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

KKK, Auburn & Taccoa

Hi, Brian. I came across some real life KKK (or at least racists) who were "in the area" as of September of 1983.

J.B. Stoner, noted racist lawyer and politican from Georgia, had just begun a 10-year sentence at the Kilby

Enlarge for detail

prison in late spring of 1983. In OTL he would be released on Nov. 10, 1986 (OTL). In the 1983DD universe, the prison would have been 'in lock down' as the government fled past on nearby I-85, mushroom cloud in the rearview mirrors. The illustration to the right shows the logistics.

The yellow circle shows a ten mile radius from Maxwell, which was the center of the blast. EMP would have put the prison on emergency batteries. In the ensuing days, perhaps, an uprising would ensue. Though a KKK enabler, Stoner's crime had been a bombing in which no one was hurt. He was released in OTL for 'good behavior.' Therefore, let's say that in TTL prison officials chose to release offenders that were not a "danger to the general public," including Stoner.

This provides a real-life instigator for the problems that arose in Auburn and ended up in New Montgomery.

Edward Fields, founder of the National States' Rights Party (1958) and publisher of The Thunderbolt, a

Atlanta nukes.png

racist newsletter. He was expelled from the NSRP in August of 1983. He had, by then, founded "The New Order," a small KKK group in north Georgia. He continued to have control of the Thunderbolt, though, and would have been an influence on the characters you created for the Taccoa scenario. The map to the right shows that Fields' hometown probably got demolished (the yellow dot on the top right is over Marietta) but there is not telling, exactly, where he was that evening).

Even if fields did not escape, I could write in his newletter as an influence on the KKK in northeast Georgia. The Toccoa article needs to be jumpstarted, and I was looking for real-life characters to add more viablity to the article. Judging from my research, the Klan was not dead in 1983! SouthWriter 19:32, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Excellent ideas, South. I'm honestly bottomed out right now, between off-wiki responsibilties and work (hence my not being around for quite a while). I'm fine with your proposal. BrianD 07:12, February 4, 2012 (UTC)


Do you want me to add in a little section about the Mississippi changing course?--Smoggy80 13:23, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'll do some editing of that section, i'll let you know when it is done for you to have a check. --Smoggy80 15:46, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I've done a bit, its still a work in progress, have a look see what you think--Smoggy80 16:43, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Australia (1983:Doomsday)

Hey Brian

I'm the editor for Australia in Doomsday. I haven't really touched the Doomsday or post Doomsday parts yet but was merely in the research phase when I spotted a problem. On Monday 26 September 1983, no state parliaments were in session and the federal parliament was on a three week "spring break". Bob Hawke is also proven to have been in Perth CBD on the dawn of 27th September 1983. This potentially means that quite a few MPs would have been killed by Doomsday and possibility higher ranking officials with canon changing consequences. I am going on a holiday very soon and wont be back till 14th April but I plan to do a lot of research on the matter via newspaper archives at my university library.

Scandinator (talk) 13:56, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

....He neglects, of course, to mention that I've killed off almost his entire argument, his argument is, in many ways, based on several odd opinions that he holds, that he has no proof of where in the Perth region Hawke was, and that Hawke had nearly an hour after the launch of the nukes to get away, minimum, and probably a couple hours in truth.

Moreover, he vastly overstates all of that. At worst, it means Hawke is dead and that the GG appoints a new PM. And even that is highly doubtful.

Lordganon 14:54, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Formal notice of an indefinite Wikibreak

I haven't really been active on here for quite some time, and I apologize for not getting around to this sooner.

I simply don't have the time, and the will, to properly contribute to the Wiki. Therefore, I'm going on an extended break, with an option to return to full-time status at some point in the future. That could be sooner than later, more likely it won't be for a long time.

I do need to finish up the Republic of Texas and ANZS Commonwealth articles and plan to do so.

If anyone wishes to adopt the articles I've been caretaker of while I'm gone, you have my blessing. (I do reserve the right to reverse/adjust any changes that are too far out of line.)

BrianD 15:59, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

You will be missed. Keep in touch, okay? SouthWriter 17:13, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to hear, Brian. As South said, please keep in touch. Lordganon 21:37, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

No Cross, No Crown

Hi, Brian. I need your opinion on the "No Cross, No Crown" policy (or guidelines). What do they say about deletion of material? And what material, if any, is subject to deletion in cases of religious discussion on the wiki? SouthWriter 04:03, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

South, despite the page clearly stating that the only thing that the policy does not apply to is articles and timelines, thinks it doesn't apply to blogs. He's no idea what he's going on about. Lordganon 04:11, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Blue Ridge

Hey Brian. I've noticed you are the owner/caretaker of the DD nation Blue Ridge, and if I read the rules correctly, I need to ask you about adopting Blue Ridge. So, may I adopt it? Enclavehunter (talk) 01:04, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Don't worry, I ususally consult, before making changes. Enclavehunter (talk) 01:16, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Greenland 83DD Review

Hi, I am sending this to all the Brass, active and inactive.

This may be much ado about nothing, but I need your feedback on the most recent Review on the "1983: Doomsday" talk page. Please feel free to check the history to see the original Review, but I need to know what you think. The best place to present that is in the review itself. SouthWriter (talk) 02:49, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

South has decided that the review following the rules wasn't good enough for his liking, so he violated numerous rules at an attempt to make them follow his own version. Don't worry about it, Brian. Lordganon (talk) 05:43, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Project Agawin: saving Fire Wiki

I have come across a wiki that is in desperate need of a major clean and reboot. None of the Admins have been active for some time. The wiki is all but dead. I have tried contacting Wika to request full rights as an admin and maybe even adopt it (If that is possible) but have not been answered. Could you provide a contact who will reliably answer?

Thank you,

David Rain (Sometimes...) (talk) 13:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Outer Lands permission

Greetings. I don't know if you remember, but you allowed me to work on the Outer Lands article in Doomsday. I have been wanting to get back into working on the article lately. I just wanted to be sure that I still have permission to work on the page. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 23:41, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to do so. BrianD (talk) 23:45, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I also wanted to inform you that I am interested in changing the flag. I currently do not like how my original idea turned out, and I believe I have a new flag idea I would like to use. Would you have any objections to this? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 01:25, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
Not at all. BrianD (talk) 01:50, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much. --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:07, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Forgive me for bringing this up, but I am curious. Why did you allow Arstarpool to have Provincetown (the northern tip of Cape Cod)? --NuclearVacuum (Talk) 02:40, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

I can't remember. Possibly because it was within the territory of Plymouth. BrianD (talk) 06:00, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Hello BrianD

Hello BrianD,

It's Ming777 from

just checking in,

PS: I'm guessing it might not be wise to write up an article about the Canada from the TL at, and explain it's statrus as a spinoff of 1983:DD?

Mikelima777 (talk) 00:57, January 14, 2013 (UTC)


Hi BrainD

I did some research  and found out that R.E.M should have been in Athens during  Doomsday. LG dosn't thinkl that they would have  surrived the the fall Athens. However, I would like to hear what you think  R.E.M.'s chances of survial were. If they surrived I feel  they would have lived on a farm outside of Athens for a while. The would have left town before April of1986 after a nomad told  theam about  the surrvial of Rome. I feel that they may have gain some fame in Rome for a song about Doomsday called  It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) . This song would not sound a thing like their OTL song of the same name.Goldwind1 (talk) 00:27, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Waking from the Slumber

Hello Brian. I have never talked to you before but now would be a good time as any I think, lol. I understand you are on a wiki-break, but I was wondering if you would be willing to discuss ANZC-UIP relations with me? I help out LG in handling the page and I was hoping that you would be able to return for a short time to discuss certain issues.

Just to give you an update, the UIP signed deals with the Siberians nearly 2 years ago which has allowed them to mainly upgrade their airforce to a better standard than what it was. Last Spring/Summer, the UIP launched Operation Dissolution, following the botched rescue of one of its pilots when his MiG-21 crashed in Bodolander jungles, to re-incorporate the eastern breakaways. Now although the Siberian support has significantly helped the UIP, the UIP would now be looking to its long-time standing ally to sign new trade and military deals with the nation in light of the cutting of all SAC aid to the nation in response to the "aggressive move" by the UIP.

What the UIP would really be interested in the civilian sector would be train-engine technology and investments as well as whatever fuels ANZC can sell to us. In the military side, we are looking mainly for army equipment and help in building a military industrial complex.

I would really appreciate it if you could get back to me on this. Thank you. :D 1.png Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:21, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

I'm no longer contributing to DD and haven't for some time. If you want to work with the ANZC that's fine with me. BrianD (talk) 21:59, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well congrats on your 4,500th edit (on my talkpage XD). So could I adopt the page? And if you do not mind me asking, why not rejoin? Not much has actually changed. :) 1.png Imp (Say Hi?!) 12:53, January 27, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you and good luck to you too. :) 1.png Imp (Say Hi?!) 17:53, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Official notice of retirement and releasing my article responsibilities to the community

This is my official notice of retirement from the wiki. I release to the community any and all countries and other concepts and articles I am considered to have responsibility and oversight over. I got my start in fan writing at 1983 Doomsday and I will be forever thankful for the numerous opportunities it gave me, including working with some very talented creators. I wish all of you the best, and perhaps we'll see each other down the road. BrianD (talk) 18:16, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

1983 Articles

Recently I noticed you retired, leaving your 1983 articles open for people to adopt. I have interest in adopting your Louisiana, Lake Arthur, and Muscle Shoals articles. I have had trouble adopting things in the past, so I am leaving this message just in case it is required as evidence of me correctly following the adoption process. If this is unnecessary then please ignore this, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Anyway, good luck on your retirement. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 20:27, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Emeritus status

Hey, Brian. We've been doing some housekeeping and are moving the names of inactive admins to the Alternative History:TSPTF#Officers Emeriti list. I moved you down there because you have not been very active lately. Whether you see this today or years from now, you're always welcome to move it back if you still are / become active. Thanks, Benkarnell (talk) 23:10, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

American Comics

Hello! I saw that you created the page for American Comics in 1983 Doomsday. Would you be willing to let me adopt the article? I'd love to write some stories to flesh out the in-universe comic book fiction of the 1983DD world. Thanks! GryffindorKrypton (talk) 02:11, April 2, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

New York City 1983: Doomsday

Hello, I'd like to adopt the New York City (1983: Doomsday) and add soem more details to flesh out the story of NYC on Doomsday, post-Doomsday intelligence about the remains of the city, and its place in post-Doomsday culture. I think there's definitely room for some expansion there. Thanks! GryffindorKrypton (talk) 01:43, June 20, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

Adoption Requests

Hello! Myself and others are trying to update 1983: Doomsday, as many of its articles lack sufficient details while others have not been updated since 2012ish. I would like permission to adopt or co-author Blue Ridge and (if it's yours to allow) North Carolina. I have lived in these places and I believe I could do them justice (while also depicting the grim realities of Doomsday in detail.) My plan is to expand Blue Ridge into the Piedmont and put an end to the despots while bringing small, ravaged communities into its fold. Though I'd like to explore the impact of a dominant Blue Ridge on a larger scale as of 2020, I want to get NC down pat before moving on.

Thanks! Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 07:52, July 24, 2020 (UTC)