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you bet, otherwise i never would have noticed your name, i stopped reading after the 2nd pregnacy though, it just seemed like she was running out of ideas. DeanSims 19:17, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
Wait. I Know it seems that way but then it takes a FAIRLY large twist. Then it gets Awesome. David Rain 19:21, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
alright, I will check it out. Fire Star was probably my favorite of the ones ive read. and please go to my talk page to message me, that way i know when you done so. ;) DeanSims 19:28, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
It is common practice to ask an editor of a DD page or on the pages talk section before editing pages.--Smoggy80 15:17, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
Want to join a map game?
I am currently playing the map game Battle for Earth Revised, and I am in a situation where my country is being weakened and facing down several powerful foes with little help and being hacked so that communications to troops are nearly impossible, pretty much immobilizing my forces. I was wondering, there is a civil war going on, and if the new government comes into power, would you like to have it? I have another nation on another map game anyway I want to free up, and the game is getting boring anyway, so there wouldn't be much of a problem. Let me know on my talk page. SPQR 03:08, May 6, 2012 (UTC)
Re: Triple Entente vs. Central Powers
- Probably semi-developed, as most of the country is probably rural at this time. However, as a dominion of a British Empire, you basically get whatever milestones Britain does. The other side of the coin, though, is that you cannot declare independence on Britain without a good reason.
- Probably not as its own page, but likely they will be voted on at the talk page.
Monster Pumpkin 22:52, May 6, 2012 (UTC)
can i be a head mod/ co head mod on your new mapgame? DeanSims 16:46, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
i will make a map! ;) DeanSims 18:29, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
i made the page, I always check up on it. DeanSims 18:33, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
Columbus: First Contact
No worries, I did that. In fact thats how i found out about the game xD Vir prudens non contraventum mingit 18:46, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
Very sorry I couln't get back to you. I had been very busy with exams, Civ V, and Assasin's creed. However, with the first and third done and the second boring again, I am up to the task. I have joined as Denmark-Norway (which really should be Denmark-Sweden...) and am very excited. JoeyB98 11:45, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
I would like to be a mod. I already mod on two VERY popular map games, "Humanity, Awake", and "Spread of Communism". Thanks! Bfoxius 16:13, June 23, 2012 (UTC)Bfoxius
Triple Entente vs Central Powers
Yes, my nation will assist Australia. Maybe your nation could assist in the Caribbean if things get out of hand. Greetings! 77topaz 08:08, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
What is LAC? 77topaz 08:09, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
Its ok dude, the games get like that, Brazil is sending secret aid, as well as regiments of vollunteers and naval support to help you. DeanSims 19:16, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
Could you provide me with a link to the CLA treaty page? 77topaz 20:19, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
Alright then. I guess we could talk about politics. Blocky858 16:05, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
Offer of Secret Military Uprising and Political Unifacation
Brazil would like to form the Federated States of Latin America with Mexico. I twould be a full political union with only one nation being controlled by every member state. We would take turns posting for our nation.
Or we can form the Confederated States of Latin America, which would essentaily be like the old CoLA but with more communication between the member states, which would still beindividualy controlled by each nation..
I am more than allowed to give answers to questions.
Deleting? The page has been moved. As in fixing the sections where you seemed to have accidentally pressed the capslock button.
Don't ever speak to someone on here like that again.
Lordganon 19:08, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
Re: Mayans in Louisana (C:FC?)
... Ok, my bad, I'll change that. So you got there by sea right? Vir prudens non contraventum mingit 17:03, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
On your user page, you said that you liked books 1-5 only. As far as I was aware, there were only 5 real books, not counting the short story Young Zaphod Plays It Safe. Didn't the author die? So how could he write another? LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:43, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
Hey Rain, you are invited to play my map game VLR. We need more players to get things going better. Russia is open so is Prussia and maybe France soon. There are other nations and feel free to add others too if you want!AP
Offer of Secret Military Uprising and Political Unifacation
Brazil would like to form the Federated States of Latin America with Venezuela. I twould be a full political union with only one nation being controlled by every member state. We would take turns posting for our nation.
Or we can form the Confederated States of Latin America, which would essentaily be like the old CoLA but with more communication between the member states, which would still beindividualy controlled by each nation..
Columbus, First contact
Listen mate, I'd really like to, but I'm already in four map games, and I'm not doing anywhere near enough work on my TLs, and the Queensland school holidays end in two days, so I can't.
- First off, while I don't blame Joey, we have some 8 nations playing and 5 are controlled by him. The LOE, the HRE, the KU monarchists, the KU republicans, and the ROV.
- Secondly, We have 4 players, none of whom... do anything, except Joey. It's kind of like watching one guy play by himself. It has gotten pretty boring, because with the LOE he bloody controls everything, no-one can stand up to him.
- Finally, it has gotten way too unrealistic. A nicaragua canal? Controlling all Canada? He knows the HRE won't insist that the ROV hand over suzerainity of the canal to him because he plays both.
Again, I don't blame Joey. As the only really active player, he has been forced to do all this.
here help is needed
Sorry the Italian Peninsula as a whole was conquered by France. You are welcome to join as any other nation. The nations with a ^ after them mean that their players are inactive and that you can take it if you want. New nations are available, including Sweden-Norway!AP (talk) 22:18, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
JUst to let you know, the Entente is not as against Moscow as it is the Allies. If you invade North Spain, we won't physically aid you but will oprobably keep a bit of a troop buildup on the Canadian american border, to scare them. Can't speak for the rest of the Entente, but I've a feeling they'll agree...
Sounds all good to me. Let's also try and get South Africa and Central America into the Pact, so then we have an ally on each continent. Personally, I want to be the swing factor. IE: The Entente and the Allies go to war. Both sides plea for help. We side with one side, and that side wins.
Anyways, we should be on better terms with the Allies than the Entente, because a lot of Moscow nations hate a lot of Entente nations.
- Russia hates Prussia
- Persia hates the Ottoman Empire, as does the Gulf Union.
- Rusia hates Scandinavia and Austria Hungary.
- and the list goes on and on and on and on.....
Now I also wish that North Spain wasn't Allied, other wise I would direct you and Portugal to invade it in case of war.
So let's keep our hopes up high that the Entente and Allies go to war, and then we'll side with the Allies. If anyone attacks us, let's hopes it's the Entente and not the Allies, cause we have a lot to gain from the Entente and not vice versa.
And to the rest of you, NO METAGAMING!
And go to the Live Chat so we can talk privately. It's here: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Live_Chat
Create a user account and leave a message on my talk after you do so.
Wow, dude, backstab. I'm so not declaring war on the allies.
Axis vs Allies revolutions
Do you realize how implausible your North Republic wishes are? Did you know that only reason for Iceland's independence was US intervention in World War II while your masters were savaged and occupied? Do you realize that everyone surrounding you is allied to the US? Do you realize that I can invade and conquer you, no questions asked? Do you know that Japan cannot help you in case I invade you? And did you know that it's implausible for you to dislike America? Do you know that half of Greenland does not wish to get involved with foreign nations, especially one so radically different than their's such as Japan? This is just really retarded. Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! 02:31, November 17, 2012 (UTC)
I'm going to hold off on democracy for a while until I feel it to be the right time. Introduce democracy into a fragile and corrupt nation such as Zaire, and bad thing will happen. I plan on building upon Zaire's position as the second most industrialized nation in Africa (was an OTL fact), and jump for the status of first world power after uniting Africa into the African Union. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:39, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
Basically I wish to make a post-nuclear war world with the nuclear war occurring on 21/22 December 2012. Would you be interested in helping finalize the number and locations of the hit on the UK? And then you would also be in charge of organizing the British and Irish state(s) that emerge after the war. Scandinator (talk) 02:56, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
Axis vs Allies Rev
I play Denmark. I don't see Quebec over there. And I recommend NATOC to change its name to Northern Alliance of Democracy. And I think any country who is afraid of the Soviet Union may join.
And tell me who are the allies of the Soviet Union. Laptop_Zombie 09:46, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Where and how do I start?
i'm working on EIGHT wikis now! So, it might be a little while.
I'm like the English professor in the Men's Room.
I don't write on the walls. I just correct the grammar and spelling.
DK's map game
- Re-offer you. Wanna be Denmark or Sweden in my map game? Laptop_Zombie 02:55, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
The advantage of the chaos theory is that I can basically make up whatever I want (within limitations) for the weather, because it's been ten years since the POD.
What is it? Want to die (have died?) in warm weather?
I noticed your changes to the Sites Hit list. While I appreciate your eagerness to help, would it be possible to send me a list of the place you had hit and a reason why. I have only targetted the major population centres in Europe and the nuclear bases as Russia merely wished to disable Europe not annihilate them like the USA. Scandinator (talk) 15:24, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
I've gone through your sites and I'm going to say Russia would not have bothered with a few of them but you have successfully picked a few extras that I missed. Since the UK's nukes are all in their sub fleet at HMNB Clyde I doubt the majority of army and air bases would be hit and NATO's command structure is already virtually dead with strikes three stages down on all command ladders. The EMPs would also knock out most of the UK's electronics. Either way, unless you want the UK to be a radioactive wasteland I would not want to add many more strikes. Scandinator (talk) 10:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
You can begin writing articles for the UK. Just an fyi, there is a united Irish state composed of Northern Ireland and the current nation Ireland. I don't mind what happens with the rest of the UK. Scandinator (talk) 06:47, January 19, 2013 (UTC)
I must say. Your nations are the best on the timeline at the moment. I myself will start creating pages very soon (aka when uni lets me) after I finish the weather and sites pages and flesh out the TL more. Keep up the good work! Scandinator (talk) 11:30, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
Firstly, Ireland was never hit. Thus I think that they should stabilize quickly after the Apoc with the nation fully under Dublin's control by February and the situation no longer critical by April. The IRA and other groups in Northern Ireland seek to join with Ireland and they do after a short war (May-July) with anti-union groups. Some of the smaller islands join as protectorates or are absorbed into Ireland, but due to lack of fuel and will, the Irish fail to take any of Britain at least for a while as they need to deal with resource and food issues. Scandinator (talk) 13:56, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
Map Game Wiki
hi, would like to know if you would be willing to Come and Play in Map Game wiki any kind of Game you want, as I Want to Re activate the Map game wiki as an alternative way to the Althistory one, it would be also a good place to Make any sort of Map game project you might want 188.8.131.52 15:50, December 26, 2012 (UTC) , and I know this is spam but i think that it is for a good cause, so...
OreoToast555 23:11, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for Understanding (AvARe)
Thanks. Sorry that I didn't post initial details in the first post of the war, I had run out of time (though I may have gone overboard with detail of the new military equipment that Hungary has made.) In real life, Hungary and Romania have some animosity, though it has cooled down since both have joined the EU.
The Romanian Civil War, while the mods didn't go much into it, would've probably seen war crimes that nearly rivaled what happened in Yugoslavia in OTL. Romanians, after years of cultural tensions with Hungarians in Erdély/Transylvania, would finally get violent, and start slaughtering the Hungarians. It happened in Yugoslav Serbia, it happened with the Armenians and Greeks towards the end of the Ottoman Empire, (granted, it had been going on as many as a few decades, but it really ramped up during and after World War I.) It would happened against the German people in Poland and Czechoslovakia after World War II. Revolutions rarely end well for minorities, where tensions have built up, and people want a "pure" state.
Of course, not that the Hungarians were that "nice" either. There have probably been mass murders of Romanians during the Romanian Civil War, and have probably gotten worse since the Erdély War began. Let's just say that this is not a pretty conflict. Stewdio333 (talk) 13:03, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
Axis Vs. Allies: Reborn
We have started a new game as Revolutions has died.
Feel free to join!
- -Germany becomes hitler's nation
- -Hitler expands his power by rewiriting the constitution
- -Germany invades several countries without outside influence
- -Australia takes most of Guinea and Indoesia, as well as some areas in indochina
- -Britain and France declare war on Germany
- -Canada Joins the war afterwards
- -German reich overthrown, hitler killed. Totalarian regime still exists, without the mass racism.
- -Developments, foreign relations and tensions build up since 1946 and 1953. Canada/Denmark/Sweden (Aka Nordic Union :l) are planning war with Germany's vassals and puppets before invading the actual nation.
Hope this is good.
I would like to add to this-
- Japan crushed China, Nepal, Bhutan and French Indochina in the late 1930's.
- Australian agents assassinated Himmler in the mid 1940's.
- Ethiopia left the axis and was annexed by Italy, with DITO help, in the mid 1940's
- Germany abortivly attacked Italy, but France, Belgium and the Netherlands went free and removed Germany.
- Australia formed a empire, gave some back to the Netherlands and offed other parts independence. It also had an inter ethnic war (with Italian, Albanian and Canadian help) with Burmese nationalists and rebel Shan, Mon, and so on groups in Burma in the late 1940's and early 1950's.. Burma has now been sorted out and peace was restored.
Yes, India can take over those places and that other red Himilaya state between Burma and Bhutan. Just Keep out of the Brown pach in Thiland, Mon-Karyn and Shan state and you can have the rest! I'm sending you stuff next move any how. Good luck.The River Nile-2 (talk) 17:32, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
re: Claiming an Honor
I do plan on having a Great War. I haven't worked out how it ends, but it will last a lot longer than it does OTL. Regarding the Franco-Prussian War, the Germans did prevail. Due to the lack of established details regarding much of the late 19th and early 20th century, I will ask you to hold off on going past the latest established date on the timeline. There should be some updates to the timeline within the week. CrimsonAssassin (talk) 03:11, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
Re:That parody of The First Oration Against Catiline, spoken by Cicero
RE: Chan Santa Cruz (NoLAH)
I think you are good on your algo the chance wont make a difference in that algo, i saw you upgraded your miltiary score to a three, but that wouldnt be in that part of the algo since its from mid 94. G greg e (talk) 17:54, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
Sorry about that...
Yeah - sorry about responding on own talk page. Still figuring out the etiquette around here and don't have a lot of free time. Anything you got on llamas will be helpful, although my long term plans obviously don't involve an economy based on guanaco herdiing (they do however make for a nice source of wool and meat in the meantime). Definitely open to input and comments on PMII as I'm still pretty new. I think you'll like what's goiong to happen in the 1700s if I get my way :-) Commandante Lemming (talk) 16:19, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, don't worry too much about the llamas. I'm pretty quickly transitioning to fish as my primnary protien source. I'm keeping the "woolly guanacos" around for red meat and as an analogue for sheep farming (which is the primary industry of Tierra del Fuego and Patagonia OTL). But while they are of cultural significance to my people, their actual usefulness is diminishing by the year. Commandante Lemming (talk) 17:05, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks - I do a lot of writing in my real life so I guess I've just gotten pretty good at it. :-) And actually...if you wanted to get in on the PMII action, Papal Provence is really the last unspoiled available nation in Europe. Nobody's touching it, it's right next to the industrial power, and it's already walled in, so you could get in on the colonization game immediately. That and playing as the Pope would be pretty awesome. As for "Saint David" - he might not have gotten canonized just yet but I don't think there's any rule against writing miracles. Commandante Lemming (talk) 00:50, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Fixed it - someone edited the page in a bad format again.
If it does that again, look at the history - someone will have made a massive edit to the page. This time, for instance, it was a 180k+ byte edit. Most edits top out in a few thousand. And edit that large is always an error.
To fix, just "undo" the bad edit.
I like the idea of the youth revolution. Not sure what I have planned after the Great War. Things are kinda still for now since I got a job and other things have popped up, putting any of my projects on hold. I had meant to get back to you about your ideas, so here's the response and I'll also tell you what I plan to have happen soon:
A: Wilhem is going to start an arms race with Britain. The idea will be that Britain and Germany will have the best Steampunk armies. Britain's got all sorts of clever contraptions and faster vehicles while Germany will have fearsome machines of war that will just wreak havoc on all kinds of things.
B: I definitely plan to have a Great War analogous to WWI, though it will be larger, last longer, and have all sorts of things. It may last very well into the twenties. I plan to have some interesting war stories. Not gonna give away too much because I like surprises (and the idea hasn't been refined too well), but the Red Baron with steampunk technology would be cool, wouldn't it?
C: I'm not sure how I want the war to end. I may actually have it become a cease-fire with no real winner.
D: People are going to be paranoid. The 20s will be an age of fear rather than post-war hype and celebration.
E: The 30s will be a breather period. People are less afraid of Germany and it'll be kind of like the Roaring Twenties, except less post-war joy. Still a feeling of paranoia. Anticipate more inventions that look even more grand than they were before the war. All this leads to more spending and more debt. I'll have prohibition come into play and, eventually, the Great Depression in the late 30s or early 40s.
F. The 40s will be the Great Depression. While all these companies are going under, steam-powered machines will be built on a more personal level rather than mass-produced. You'll have these gadgets falling into the hands of criminals like the Mafia. It'll almost be like the OTL Depression except crime will be much more rampant.
G. Not sure about what I want to do in the 50s. I might do World War II, but it'll be Japan being the culprit instead of Germany. I'd like to explore how the Clockwork Age affects Asia.
H. Aside from your idea, I don't know what to do for the 60s and beyond.
Re: A favor to ask...
Yes, I will be happy to post for you on those days. Although there is the chance that for some of the days between Monday and Friday, I will not be able to, due to work. I will, however try to do so. On a different note, I invite your nation, Chan Santa Cruz, to join the North American League, and help in drafting the constitution. Bfoxius (talk) 15:40, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I still am posting you monday-friday. What do you want done in that time period? Yes, I will definitely raise hell if you are attacked, as you are my ally. Bfoxius (talk) 16:55, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
I would absolutely accept specialists. Persecuting Christians was never part of the king's plan. Extremist elements might disagree, but it still won't happen. No religion will be punished provided it does not advocate harm against the state.
In the Ruins of The French Empire
I once again apologize for my inactivity on this. I've got a big addition to the timeline planned with more inventors and more technological based things for steampunk technology to continue to rise. I'm not giving away a specific guy who helps in this, but his name rhymes with Mikola Besla. I like your ideas btw. CrimsonAssassin- "You can't handle this egg roll" 00:56, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
No, I feel bad about how much you're putting into the timeline while I've been slow to update the universe and get back to you on your ideas. That and I'm also about to enter an important semester (17 college credits). Regarding the Prometheus engine, it was me trying to get away with miniaturization of clockwork and motors to allow for better steampunk gadgets. It was like a cheap plot device like they used in Star Trek. 'Don't question how it works, just go with it'. Feel free to revamp it or cut it out as you see fit. CrimsonAssassin- "I have special eyes" 15:22, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
To you too!
Hello! Well, Crim is going to be pretty focused with his Magnum TL so I hope it goes well. As for OC&M, I have seen you put a lot of time into it. I am not sure as to what is going on. Care to update me please? ;) Imp (Say Hi?!) 16:30, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
Ah. Well, as long as you do most of the editing, and I am the ideas bounce-board guy, it should work very nicely. ;) Well, my ideas are more to do with world climate and space exploration. With a warmer planet than even what we have in OTL (and believe me - all that coal is more harmful than oil), the planet would be at least a degree or two warmer (Celsius, cause we're Brits).
What does this mean? A huge amount of people displacement as sea levels rise, relocations need to occur and people are forced in land. However, what does this add to the environment? The Sahara suddenly becomes a lot greener. A whole new continent begins to defreeze (depends on how much the temperature rises by). Less rising in temerature means less of the continent is exposed. However, countries suffer. The British Empire will be hard hit. Here is something as to what the world might start looking like: Dubia.
Space exploration. Seeing as to how Victorianism lasts longer, trust on companies trying to get as much resources as they can for themselves. Therefore, when some smart guy works out that an asteriod can supply factories all around the world, trust the companies to go crazy. Getting out of Earth orbit is going to be tough. Due to there being no oil being used, it'll have to be a mix of magnesim and nuclear propulsion to get stuff into space. Getting it back to Earth is easy enough.
You know what I think? Get the Brits and Germans into one nation, kinda like in the Anglo-German Union. With all these PoDs flying about, there have got to be a few butterflies. Plus, both nations at this point in time (Victorians) had very similar ideologies (conservative). Both were very business minded and the only major problem you would have would be sorting out the language.
Russia facist? Oooh, interesting. France commie? Trust on them making a Union of Socialist France - basically all of French West Africa and France. Will help removing a lot of racist problems. Not too sure about the Ottomans. But they won't last.
Lol, I said how it might start looking like. As in the Arctic icecap melting off tons and stuff. No oil's not really going to help. The huge amounts of coal will just mean the situation is so much worse. See, most fuels when burned in internal combustion in cars only mainly give off carbon dioxide. Coal on the other hand pumps up a lot more dirty gases. Like, hugely.
So our world will see a lot of things happen. The French, in their end days, would actually begin to see a revival - no joke. The Sahara would be able to begin to be able to grow crops in many areas (with careful water management, of course) and the Sahel will expand northward. The USF won't break up - actually get stronger after this point. Only a few in the government will realise how close they came to breaking up and I think the boom in the Sahel will cause reform - they want to hold on to these new lands which will become valuable.
Yea, its great isn't it? I would trust on quite a few nations to have much land under the sea. Mainly the Netherlands and Bangladesh (or East Bengal if the Brits are still in India). :D Imp (Say Hi?!) 21:05, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
I have a few cultural things in mind, especially with a few games.
One particular idea I had was an alternate Touhou Project series. Some aspects of the game would stay the same, but a few characters, especially Nitori Kawashiro, along with a few storylines, would be different. As the world seems to be dominated by steampunk, some steampunk technologies would appear within the series. -Kogasa 2013 August 13, 23:10 (CET)
Ah okay. Then I'll make it into a manga series only. Is it okay if I could create a page for it later on? -Kogasa 2013 August 16, 18:17 (CET)
Mice and Men Companies
I've recently been making pages for the timeline "Of Mice and Men". I was wondering if I could have permission to add the companies page to the timeline template. Thanks, Mscoree (talk) 13:46, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
I’d like to apologize for failing to post for you while you were away. As it turns out I’m not the best at posting for people (I was posting for a few people at points). I feel pretty bad for saying I would, and basically forgetting. I was away the last few days unexpectedly, followed by a ban from Lordganon, so a lot of stuff on NotLAH was backed up. Anyway, let me know if there’s anyway I can make this up to you. Also, I got your message about “Of Clockwork and Men” and have to say that I’d be honored. My apologies, Mscoree (talk) 15:26, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
I will probably change Pearl Harbor a bit as I develop the history of Japan in the thirties and forties. Right now it's on a different date and far less devastating since the United States would have radar and other devises. I was thinking that the Pacific War might eventually lead to World War 2, in which the Pacific War would be a part of it. Mscoree (talk) 14:26, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
To quote wikipedia:
As the first wave approached Oahu, it was detected by the U.S. Army SCR-270 radar at Opana Point near the island's northern tip. This post had been in training mode for months, but was not yet operational. Although the operators, Privates George Elliot Jr. and Joseph Lockard, reported a target, a newly assigned officer at the thinly manned Intercept Center, Lieutenant Kermit A. Tyler, presumed it was the scheduled arrival of six B-17 bombers. The direction from which the aircraft were coming was close (only a few degrees separated the two inbound courses), while the operators had never seen a formation as large on radar; they neglected to tell Tyler of its size, while Tyler, for security reasons, could not tell them the B-17s were due (even though it was widely known).
The post would have reported it if operational. Since the attack in this timeline takes place nine years later I think it makes since that the post was better equip and probably would have reported the attack. Mscoree (talk) 18:57, September 23, 2013 (UTC)