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When you post this turn, please launch a war to invade Aryavarta in the north. I and the other nations of India will support you. Aryavarta must be destroyed this turn. Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess 04:10, March 10, 2017 (UTC)
Need to talk
Please come to chat as soon as possible -Nate
Don't worry about it. I knew you were new to the wiki, so I didn't assume you would answer promptly anyway. The situation was resolved by the recent mod events, so there is no need to war against Aryavarta. As for Maratha, I will not dictate where you should or should not attack. However, I will warn you Maratha is a very large and populated area, so if you annexed it, it would cause a huge logistical and politcal strain that would lead your nation to massive revolts a few decades later. For that reason, I would not advise it.
Please come to chat today, I really want to work things out in person.
Particularly, I want to apologize for the things that happened in the war. I know you are put off by the loss of land in the war, but if you wait longer things may turn around for you.
Hi Drake! I agree Bengal is bidding more money than they really have, which mainly affects how much they will be accepted for. By the way, Id welcome your appearance in the conference as well, if you want to get back to a colonial power.Oh, I didn't mean to push that button! † Oh, well leave a message I guess 16:41, May 17, 2017 (UTC)
You just got a negative mod event, but it could have been worse. Apparently, not as many people are willing to go to baloch "as expected" However, there is still a way you can get people over there. Do what English Arcadia does, promise them money or land. Also, greatly improve the infrastructure, because balochistan is a backwater. also fyi baloch is mostly a mix of shia and some zoroastrians.
user talk: Warrioroffreedom123 09:41, May 21, 2017 (UTC)warrioroffreedom123
I'm the player for Malaya and I saw your request for trade and cultural ties. I'd be happy to accept but where exactly is Karnad? I get the impression it's in India?
There are many factors in why Japan was first to industrialize. Which I will explain later. – † ⌒⌒⌒＼(;ᄋ;＼)三(ﾉ>ᄉ<)ﾉ ~ ("니가먼저키스해!")
Ok I'm back. So this will be massively simplified. Firstly, there are three main factors: Support from European powers (namely, Britain), an already high degree of commercialization and previous exposure to Western culture and socio-political principles, and lastly, social stability and a socially-stratified elitist society built upon the top to bottom approach of distributing phenomena and ideas.
First factor. Following the Opening of Japan and the Convention of Kanagawa (by Matthew C. Perry), two Western powers had interests in Northeast Asia. France and Britain, as both want to check Russian imperialism in the East. This is evident for example, as French actions in Indochina and attempts to influence Korean politics (which was met with opposition from staunchly isolationist and reactionary Duke Heungseon Daewongun, which ruled in the place of King Gojong) and British attempts at helping the Chinese in the Self-strengthening Movement following the Tongzhi Restoration (which lost traction following the death of the Tongzhi Emperor in the 1870s). During the Boshin War, France supported anti-royalist forces while Britain supported pro-royalist forces, which led to the latter coalitions' victory and the Meiji Restoration, ironically most of the power was held by his Cabinet, which was comprised of former aristocrats and samurai.
Second, Japan was already commercialized and fairly developed, which was fairly true in both China and Korea (but were afflicted mainly by political strife and court politics). While you may have a large trading surplus (but not as large as China's), you need to have domestic commercialization. 40-50% of the (male) population was literate, but due to emphasis on education, the proportion of the population being literate has risen to 85%, with universal primary education being achieved. Furthermore, through "Dutch Studies" imported during the Sakoku (isolationist) period, many scholars and intellectuals already espoused and knew of Western knowledge prior to its "opening". In a sense, the Meiji Restoration wasn't baseless spontaneous "spectacular" growth or economic development, it is simply the manifestation of prior development.
Third, Japan had a clearly-defined elite (former samurai and aristocrats loyal to the Emperor and his allies) and due to the influence of Confucianist values, was innately authoritarian and elitist. The commoner class however, was fairly apolitical due to the influence of political dynasties making commoners participating in politics practically impossible due to their lack of an established power base. This hierarchy and social stratification allowed the efficient largely non-opposed movement of ideals from the elite to the commoner class (hierarchal diffusion). The state also controlled large aspects of the country, and used this to their advantage. For example, while zaibatsu (earlier form of keiretsu) conglomerates were family-owned and privatized, their officials all had close social relations with the government, and thus received various benefits including cheap credit, subsidies, and granted monopolies.
In short, Dravidia lacks these qualities and thus would at the earliest be a participant in the Second Industrial Revolution (which starts in 1870), but it cannot be the earliest in Asia and if it does industrialize early it'd have to draw influence from other Asian countries. Also the notion Dravidia can colonize Africa and Australasia is atrocious, same with the notion that it can displace China - a much highly developed and centralized power - as the dominant power in Indochina. In fact, Indochina is comprised of CHINESE tributary states, including Bengal.
– † ⌒⌒⌒＼(;ᄋ;＼)三(ﾉ>ᄉ<)ﾉ ~ ("니가먼저키스해!")
Well, IIRC, most of that "proto-industrialization" was geared at producing textiles for foreign usage/shipment, indicating a lack of a sizeable domestic market. I don't know if you have this yet, but you could perhaps nationalize important industries (salt, steel-making) and develop a national currency (such as silver bullion, which is obtainable by trade and available in massive volumes, usage of gold currency is unlikely). You also need to create a labour dividend (division of labour) and promote merchantile activity, which can be done with substantial increases in agricultural productivity removing the need for such an agrarian economy while boosting chances of heavy commercialization.
Also, not to be boasting since I'm the player for China, but industrialization in Asia is heavily tied to whatever happens in China. China must be either humiliated first (through foreign involvement in Chinese affairs, which I plan to occur sometime in the 1850s) or be the first to industrialize. This will signal the "need" for a stronger modern military-industrial base and thus incentivize industrialization. If you do these you can definitely enter the Second Industrial Revolution in the 1870s, but you won't really "industrialize" outside of core coastal metropolises until the late 1920s/early 1930s (similar to Meiji Japan), but given the sheer size of your population you'd still be powerful industrially overall.
I'd advise developing a national identity now, but keep it vague and flexible (like adoption of lingua franca, civic nationalism such as emphasis on citizenship/allegiance) until the late 1800s, when you can launch centralized en-masse assimilationist campaigns. You can definitely try out a bureaucracy, though you'd need at least some nominal figurehead to bind together authority and potential court factionalization.
As for your plans for Dravidian imperialism, I'd advise not directly-colonizing Indochina until the 1800s (when you would industrialize and gain prestige among European powers and when I, China, start pulling out from there) but beware of competition from Tondo. And if I were you, I'd target Africa and try to participate in the Partition of Africa. Australasia's too far-fetched, and will likely become Dutch, English, Iberian, or Russian.
– † ⌒⌒⌒＼(;ᄋ;＼)三(ﾉ>ᄉ<)ﾉ ~ ("니가먼저키스해!")
In case you did not know, I have already been given permission by the Moderators to replace you as the player for India/Dravidia. I was thinking, would you consider the two of us jointly controlling the Empire? Jagdalpur and Nagpur are Indian vassals. You could play as them if you wanted to. I could continue invading other states and you could annex them into Jagdal/Nagpur. That's assuming you are interested in jointly playing.. Alternatively, I could play as the Emperor and you could be the Grand Vizier (Prime Minister). If not, I can't think of any other solution.
1. Ah, I did not know that. I was under the impression that Dakhini simply served as the lingua franca and that the common people still spoke their native languages. In any case, I'll make sure to correct that in the next turn. As for Hinduism, I am perfectly fine with that. I personally do not believe I have a great deal of knowledge concerning that religion so I guess it's best that I keep you preoccupied with it xD
2. Apologies, I was not aware of that. I mistakenly assumed that Dravidia was being ruled by a King due to it's previous name, the Deccan Maharajya. As for Tirupati, I hope you don't mind but I would personally prefer if the capital is shifted to Hyderabad. The main reason being Hyderabad's central position in the Empire, the city being of great importance to the Deccan Kings and Tirupati being dangerously close to the coast. The city where otl Hyderabad is, whatever it's name is would be changed to Hyderabad. I could at the same time have the ruler renamed Haider. Is that fine with you?
3. I am aware of that and the Dravidian identity seems perfectly fine but I was personally hoping to unify the Indian subcontinent at a later date. For that reason and because the region is internationally known as India (locally as Hind, Hindustan, Bharat etc), I assumed the Empire of India would be a suitable name. PM4s North Indians are Indo-Aryans and we both know of Dev's Aryavarta. PM4s South Indias are Dravidians and you had your Dravida.. but what about all Indians? Wouldn't you say India is a better name for a unified subcontinent instead of Aryavarta or Dravidia? Tell me what you think
4. I certainly do plan on expanding out of the subcontinent and dominating the Indian Ocean trade but at the very same time, wouldn't it be adequate to expand in India as well when/if given oppurtunities? I have already spoken with both Dev (Bengal) and Person (Britain), both of whom are willing to offer considerable Indian territory to our nation, namely Gwalior, the Maratha states and Goa (the Indian state that borders Iberia's actual Goa). Since we are practically free to take the land, why stop? Why not take it? I am not calling for a war to unify India but why refrain from taking land that has been offered to us on a silver platter?
5. Yes, I am aware of all that. I do think it would be better if provinces are created for the sake of better manangement.
Do you have a Discord? I think it would honestly be better if we spoke on Discord as it's faster and more efficient instead of posting on one another's Talk Page lol. It seems there are quite a few things that we need to resolve so I won't be posting this turn until we resolve those issues and the confusion ends.
Here's the link to Althistory Wiki's Discord server. https://discord.gg/WmTEvk3
Hello this is eljefe316 I wanted to ask if in the principia moderni 4 game I can play as the Maya since thats your land.
re:MayaEljefe316 (talk) 04:03, February 27, 2018 (UTC)