Collaborating on a Timeline


I loved your 'President DeLay' timeline, I am a big fan of Rush, Tom, Mike Pence, and Michelle Bachmann as well.

I was hoping you might be interested in collaborating on two timelines I have adopted; The Disunited States of America, and President Kemp.

If so please send me as message at your convenience.

Best Regards,

Bill Potter, 11:33(EST), March 15, 2010


Sure thing GOPZACK, I would like to work on the Everglades survivor nation. Arstarpool 03:04, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Although I like the idea, I think some major border adjustments should be done to include less of the east coast and more of the Everglades. The Everglades should mainly be on the far Southwest side of the penninsula. Good pic tho. I also think we should change the name to something more suitable, rather than the same old republic. I like Everglades Territory, as someone else suggested, or maybe South Florida Territory. A third option could be: Republic of the Everglades or Municipal Province of the Everglades. I donno, I could use some insight on name recomendations. Arstarpool 03:16, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry if you're not getting this, but the Everglades is on the WEST side of South Florida, look where the land looks very untouched. Homestead is on the MID-EAST part of Florida. Miami is one the East side. Arstarpool 21:53, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


Hey GOPZACK, I was wondering if you or anyone else on the wiki could help me with a survivor nation I made near Rome. I have titled it New Rome (1983: Doomsday). Please leave me a message if you know of anyone who could help me with this.

Red areas are destroyed areas with high radiation, light red are moderatley radiated and moderatley damaged, while yellow areas could be suitable for habitation. Arstarpool 20:44, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Should we still work on this article? I have found myself occupied with other articles throughout the althist, and I assume the same from you. Arstarpool 00:49, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

I know I have asked this several times, and I am sorry if I sound rude, but, do you still take any interest in the article? If not, then I may resort to throwing it to the wolves in favor of another article. Arstarpool 23:49, May 20, 2010 (UTC) Could you help me in finishing off this article? Originally it was a collaboration, but I ended up doing up almost all the work, haha. I either want to get it in shape for graduation, or scrap it in favor for Tuscany. Arstarpool 17:14, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Nova roma2010

Marcus Island

SorryVegas adict 19:11, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

North Florida

Since the "creator" of North Florida has retreated, leaving us to do what we want with the area, what are your plans for the area? I think that Tallahassee is out. Listed as a tertiary target, it is also the capital of arguably the most important state in the deep south. In OTL it is a pivotal connection with the intrenational turmoil in the Carribean.

Perryz has visions of grandeur for the area which seem overly optimistic (to say the least). North Florida needs to be pared back as was South Florida. I am comfortable with the present boundaries, but any further expansion is probably still a long way away. SouthWriter 16:11, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, Zack, I see you're paying attention to the article. Do you think you can that we can work on getting this in shape for graduation?SouthWriter 23:09, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Zack, Perryz gave me the option of pulling the plug. I was actually the person whom he first discussed making the page with, but seeing your part and effort you put in, I'm just going to run it by you. Should he not respond to the most recent message I have left him, It shall be purged within 24 hours. Arstarpool 05:59, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Zack, I don't know if you are getting this. I was given authority of the article from ITS CREATOR. Essentially, I am now the official caretaker. I marked it obsolete because it has outlived its usefulness and purpose. The only way I will allow to go on as a proposal is if you rename it, and no more "North Florida" crap. Arstarpool 16:27, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

I have an idea that will get me to shut up: rename it. Someone had hinted at civilization in the north of Florida called "Appalachiacola". Rather than keeping on working on two identical republics, than a little bit of difference will get me to appreciate the article. I had already had plans to rename "my" Florida the Federation of South Florida, but I wanted to run it by you first. So here are my ideas:

Republic of Appalachiacola (North Florida)

Federation of the Everglades, Federation of South Florida, Republic of South Florida (South Florida)

Get back to me on which one we should change, and remember to write my name back in under North Florida on your userpage.Arstarpool 17:11, May 23, 2010 (UTC)


Hey GOPZACK I have started a nation just above you, in northern Indiana called Republic Of Indiana, and if we could get some type of diplomatic talks in the future, it would be nice.Perryz101 20:53, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I think they would join some way or another, due to Kentucky being a power house in the area. When Kentucky took Southern Indiana and began guarding the area would of be ok, due to the chaos at the time, but they may want it back, after all the area is still populated by Hoosiers.Perryz101 20:57, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
How are we going to split Indianapolis blast-zone, Is Kentucky getting it or Indiana.?Perryz101 03:51, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, Indiana can join.Perryz101 10:56, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

So, is the Dixie Alliance going to allow Indiana join, or is it being voted on?Perryz101 22:42, April 29, 2010 (UTC)


I recently made some changes to the TV and Radio stations section; I highly doubt that a small republic like that would have 9 radio stations and 6 TV stations. Also, what's a population estimate on the area? By adding the abundance of areas Perryz initially claimed I got a number of 500,000, and thats from the 1980 census. Get back to me, because I'm starting to take interest in the article I once so deeply hated. Arstarpool 03:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I'll be sure to write up a summary next time I edit. I've made up my mind I am going to hop the canonization train on this one, so if you could write me in as a contributer to the article on your userpage that would be good so that I do not have to inform you of every single edit I make. Sorry if I get a bit impatient sometimes, I know I've asked that twice already, but I have a bad habit of wanting to get credit for everything I do. Arstarpool 04:03, May 24, 2010 (UTC)"

We finally got it canonized! Good on ya, mate!Arstarpool 02:50, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for that!--HAD 14:31, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Some Help

I need help putting up a Doomsday article for Swaziland and would like it if you help me get me started and make the page (not write info, just help put up the article) since I dont know how to put the proposal message on the top of the page. BlackSkyEmpire 02:06, June 5, 2010 (UTC)BlackSkyEmpire

Never mind BlackSkyEmpire 02:31, June 5, 2010 (UTC)BlackSkyEmpire

Re: Respect

And what event are you specifically referring to? If you are talking about Ocelot, he has spammed, and more than 3 people have agreed that he should be permantently banned. The guy made 7 articles with the exact same information, only to hope one would get canonized. He blanked out the PUSA, and wrote that the American people had reunited completely within 1 week in Seattle. Even after all of that, I NEVER said anything rude to the guy. If you are talking about Sunkist, we worked things out. I had to explain to him that it was established canon that South Africa had collapsed, with no apparent succesor.

Zack, One thing I would ask of you in the future is DO NOT ACT LIKE AN ADMIN. Do not go around telling people how to treat other people. I can have Brian or Louis do that to me. You are a normal contributor, so do not act like you are one of the more revered members of the wiki in order to gain face with the the newbies. I would understand if this had directly gotten in

the way of something you were doing, but this is just you flaunting the power you do not have. In the future, I will take your advice and be kinder to the newer members. Arstarpool 03:09, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

For one thing, I find it extremely rude to tell someone "they are like Hitler". That is not only rude to me but is an insult to my family's ethnic background, who lost many a brother to making sure that has regime collapsed.

How do I act like an admin again? Do I canonize my own articles? Do I attempt to block other members? Do I blank out other people's work? Have I made an important descision that has changed the fate of the althist? No, I do not canonize my own articles, I make suggestions to "people in higher places" to block other members, I do not blank out other peoples work, I only correct spelling errors they might have left, and no, I have not made any major decisions using solely my own power. So no, I do not act like an admin.

Please tell me how I have handled my California article? Me and Yank sweated bullets on that one, and every error that was brought up was changed.

In the future, leave a message I have left unedited. I chose to edit the message I left because I realized that I had overeacted.

20:17, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Did I ever call you or think you are this "evil administrator"? No, all I said is it is kind of bothering how you take responsibilities that normally belong to the higher members. And as for your claim that I think that things run on "newbies" here, I do not think that. I am not the Perryz or the Sunkist of the Wiki, not that there is anything wrong with them, but I have been here even longer than I have had a Wiki account. And if that still makes me a "newbie" (which by the way, I do not know why you continue to use that word like if I used it all the time"), is there a true difference that separates a "newbie" from a newer member? No, there is not.

Arstarpool 20:45, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

East Carribean Federation

Established canon is that East Florida has been a spot of interest for the ECF. South Florida is its economic ally, not thinking of joining. These are not my ideas, but they are canon. Arstarpool 23:17, June 7, 2010 (UTC)


Certainly, go right ahead. --DarthEinstein 23:12, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Image request

I have a bit of a request to ask of you. Could you please photoshop an image of a civil-war era union soldier holding an AK-47? I don't have the time, skill or tools required for such a task.

Yankovic270 00:50, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


Right now I am trying to mow down most of the proposals and get them either into canon or into the Recycle Bin. If you have the time, please go through our current proposals and help me sort out which ones are getting into canon and which ones aren't. Arstarpool 01:19, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Norfolk Island

Would you mind if I made some template corrections to Norfolk Island? Arstarpool 18:13, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Kentucky History

Hey, Zack. I made a couple grammatical changes to the History of Kentucky page, if that's fine with you. Arstarpool 22:08, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

ASAP Mediation

Can you mediate between an argument between me and Vene, fellow TSPTF comrade? I think that if I say one more thing to him I will get myself banned, so please help out or send someone else to help out. Arstarpool 00:11, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


why is it so important to mention the University of Florida and the Devil rays. This is a post appoctolyptic world. Why would it matter?

Well whoever you are, we tend to mention a few small notable things like the University of Florida that are in the area. --GOPZACK 02:13, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Wasteland Europe

Hey, if you can, could you help me out with Wasteland Europe? Feel free to expand it, because it is an open timeline afterall. Arstarpool 21:56, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Central World

Hi could you help me expand Central World, I'm trying to turn it into a community project. Please Answer Me. VENEZUELA 22:38, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

please answer. VENEZUELA 02:30, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


This is sort of an IM thing that Smallpox and Vegas found, I checked it out and it's pretty cool.

Go to

write your nickname

type "wikia_ah" (remove quotation marks) in the channel box

enter, and party.

Pass it on.

BoredMatt 14:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

PS me and EE found the layout a bit confusing, you type in the text bar at the bottom of the screen.

Graduating Articles

I advice you that before you go on a graduation spree, make sure to keep the rest of VENEZUELA's articles on the causcaus on the proposal list because a lot of them may get drastically changed soon. Arstarpool 23:36, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

That was....harsh. Arstarpool 23:44, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


What is it with you always marking my works as proposals after they have been graduated? Don't feed me this shit-story of "this is the way we do it around here" because I have only seen this happen one other time since March. My article was graduated. GRADUATED. It does not matter if his came first. Mine is canon and Fx's is not. I am just asking for Californian lands, and me and Yank are only defending that, while Fx is taking up 99% of Nevada and even California. He has gotten into three, yes three arguments over borders. I'm sorry if I am coming across as a douche-bag but I am only defending my canon work. You should have brought it up when it was a proposal. Arstarpool 06:11, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

The reason Prussia was reviewed is because it was an atrocity. This is NOT an atrocity, nor it is a work of art, but how did I sneak it in when nobody was looking? It was on the site when everyone was still active, so that is bull crud on your part. Is this how "Lieutenant Zack" is supposed to act? "Constable Ars" should not act like this either, but I have stated that I am done, not the argument. You in fact, are the prime motivator on my "ego trip", as you have one of the worst goddamn attitudes as well, my friend.

Bloody, infamous article? Show some respect, Lieutenant. This is not the place to have your anger session.

I do not wish to "destroy one of the best articles on the wiki". While I am not a fan of the nation, I only wish my article to remain intact.

I am also at a disatvantage in this argument, with me and Yank on one side, and South, FX, and you,on the other, although your irate personality counts as two people.

I have requested a one-on-one solution between me and Fx. You, Yank, South, and whatever other mammal involved in this matter will stay out, okay? Arstarpool 07:04, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why do you and South continue to ramble on and on about me? I stated I was done arguing, and you say it is not over, but when Fx requests it, he gets his full respect and the opportunity to get up and out. Arstarpool

So are you done your anger section here? Fx has denied you the one on one solution its in the hands of the brass. If they like the mediation idea I'll see you then. Until then I'm not responding to anything else you have to say regarding this issue. --GOPZACK 16:39, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


This is not "private," so I will be brief. Let us, like FXgentleman, leave constable Ars to his rantings. His request for one-on-one with Fx has been denied anyway, so it is all in the hands of the Brass now. Good luck in your mediation efforts.

If Alex loses, though, what will become of his other work on the wiki? The Brass has authority just on 83DD but all across the wiki. The young man is rather reasonable over at the time line he created (Wasteland Europe), though his POD and consequences thereof are harder to guage there. SouthWriter 15:05, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean if I "lose"? Arstarpool 15:37, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

This is getting a little tedious, Alex. I will put this here, and on Zack's page as well. This is in arbitration, you are not in charge of that arbitration, but only one of the parties of the dispute. If you do not go along, you are in danger of being banned from the whole wiki. It is not hard to settle this if you will work with others. FXgentlelman has stated that he will not communicate directly with you, so the best you can do is go through Zack, who has graciously agreed to mediate an equitable settlement. SouthWriter 03:11, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Who decided that I am so close to being banned? Arstarpool 03:14, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

No one "decided" anything. I was just giving you some advice about how things work in the real world. You are acting childish and I, as an adult, am trying to calmly explain things to you. You have been offered a chance to get a settlement favorable to both sides, but nothing can advance until you "come to the bargaining table" with someone who has agreed to listen to both sides.

You have "lost control" of the situation, and it is in the hands of others now. Accept this and you might just get more than you expect. If not, you might lose what you have worked to obtain. This is not a "warning" from me, for I am not in charge here. Take my advice, or not. I hope to see you at the arbitration. SouthWriter 03:27, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

The Dispute

Me and South are taking care of it real time at Under the channel put "wikia_ah_dispute". I promise you I will not let my temper go, but please do the same. Arstarpool 17:20, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

I went there, and Alex was a no show. However, I pulled up my desktop version of Google earth and made this map following
SNU boundaries
the peaks of the Sierra Nevada mountains. The map doesn't take any of California's valuable farmland but does retain ALL of Lake Tahoe. I think something like these lines would have been established between civilized adults after doomsday. However, an incorporation of the full counties in California would not break the spirit of the Sierra Nevada Union and would actually provide much needed farmland for the large population centered around Lake Tahoe. SouthWriter 21:38, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Look at the map I gave to FX. I gave him all of the disputed lands except for those around Placer and pasts of Alpine. Arstarpool 22:23, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

I looked at it. I doubt if FX did, since he unilaterally shut you out until hearing back from the Brass. I'm pretty sure Zack so it as well, and I am sure it will be taken into consideration. I did this map after seeing yours. Though I think a smaller "Nevada" would be fine with his article, it is not necessary. You will need to keep in mind that any encroachment on the shores of Lake Tahoe would probably not happen. The "bulge" into California loops around the mountains surrounding Lake Tahoe. Your map claims the Northwest shore as Californian. SouthWriter 01:33, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

The smaller Nevada would be necessary, since the area is also in a very bad dispute with Utah. And as for the small "encroachment" on the shores of Lake Tahoe, that, and a small portion of Alpine County was all I asked.

  • Indentions tend to disappear, so I'll try a bullet. We'll get to this "around the table" (Yank and I having been invited as support on opposing sides). The discussion will probably begin below this section, so I'll withhold comment until then. SouthWriter 02:59, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

In an unrelated, more "neutral" event, I have made Yank a caretaker to the South Florida article after a series of complications regarding the Keys. Arstarpool 02:14, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

  • I commented over at Yank's talk page on this.SouthWriter 02:59, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

SNU Mediation

Gopzack: I have been offline for a day, taking a break from this craziness. As such, I just saw your message. Let me say upfront, I have no desire whatsoever in arguing with Mr. A. In fact I always thought the business of the SNU western borders was a resolved subject some time ago and the extreme response from him on this has floored me. Thanks for agreeing to mediate and hopefully we can end this silliness.

My basic argument is this. Even in this day and age the Sierra Nevada’s (SN) can be a rugged and formidable barrier. Planes frequently vanish in this area, the few roads can be become easily blocked by heavy snows which occur in fall, winter, and spring (note: DD at the beginning of fall.) In the absence of the modern world as we would see post DD, the region is going to be relegated to the same conditions which existed in the mid-1800s. The most immediate concerns to areas east of the mountains whether they are eastern portions of El Dorado, and Placer Counties, CA and or NV, would be preserving resources and maintaining safety and security, vis-à-vis, establish a secure border. Especially so, given the refugees who would be fleeing from strikes in the Sacramento and San Francisco-Oakland areas and the lawless elements which would arise (i.e. gangs, raiders, escaped criminals from Folsom Prison). It has already been established via the MSP article the chaos and crime which gripped areas of northern CA. As such, I don’t’ think it would be too much a stretch to think the same conditions existed in the central regions. I think it would be only logical the NV government would offer to work with the aforementioned areas and they would acquiesce given the overall situation, working together to share resources and block the few access points through the mountains to protect themselves. Once the chaos died down in the future and someone, say the CR, sent people through the SN to explore, and if SNU troops didn’t turn them around, they would find a region more closely aligned to NV than CA.

As such, those areas of eastern El Dorado and Placer would be vital to the security and safety of the SNU and are fundamental to my article. I have no interest whatsoever in anything regarding these counties west of the SN. I included parts of Alpine and Mono, given I felt SNU troops would move into those areas over time, say 1984-85, in an attempt to patrol the mountains to stop elements getting through and build forts. I feel they would find few people, who would welcome relief from raids. So, I would be willing to acquiesce regarding those areas if it will quell this disagreement. The best way to describe my borders in regards to CA is to imagine an area just north of Highway 80 running west to the SN and along the mountains to around Mono Lake and swinging back to the old NV border. I do need to note two things I discovered when I re-reviewed my article. I inadvertently made my map larger than I meant to in regard to CA and intended to terminate it around Mono Lake. Secondly, I apparently misunderstood a county map of CA when I wrote my article. Both my map and article includes an area, Route 80, which I thought was part of Placer, when in fact it is in Nevada County. Therefore I will need to identify a small part of this country as being part of the SNU and put it in the same category as El Dorado and Placer in its level of importance. I apologize for the verbiage but this is my thoughts on the subject. Please let me know if you need more from me. --Fxgentleman 18:23, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

My argument:

As I originally created my nation during a time when the map had not yet been placed on the SNU. I had no idea when I originally created the first version of what is now the CR that there was another nation who had already claimed part of California. However, doing further research, I eventually figured out that Fx had listed the claimed Californian counties on the SNU page, so I am at fault. However, I have stated below why I do not wish to relinquish Californian lands to the Sierra Nevada Union.

My argument to why I would like all but Mono County is that the lands under SNU control are in a close proximity to the Provisional State Government in Placerville, dozens of miles away from the rest of El Dorado County, Placer, and Alpine. With the state roads still functioning, such said mountains would be little an obstacle to traveling from one county to the other. While the closely knit-together counties in California were concentrating on survival, Nevada would be doing such same and would have little to "share". How Nevada currently controls nearly all of their former state today still baffles me. Further more, what would this "border" of the SN mountains protect them from? An established civilization in Placerville? Anyways, the proximity of the "capital" of California is actually at a vantage point to reaching the other sides of the mountains. Why would they use such mountains as barriers when in fact the low population of the area would pose little to no threat to Nevada. Instead, they might reinforce their state borders to prevent any intrusions, whereas one unguarded road in the Sierra Nevada mountains while the SNU is concentrating on the main highway could allow entire caravans of raiders and other rejects of society into Nevada to raise hell. Furthermore, you stated that even in the modern day planes get lost in the area. How would criminals be able to pass through the area without getting lost themselves, or even worse, the Sierra Nevada Army while attempting to establish control in the area? So couldn't they just destroy such roads leading into Nevada?

If Nevada is portrayed as the "Most Arid State in the Union", then why would refugees, criminals, gangs, or other undesirables go waltzing into what could have very well be an arid, radiated desert wasteland? California would in fact take the sword to the chest if they controlled the disputed areas, using their own military to eradicate such criminals before they entered Nevada. Thus, the Sierra Nevadans may rest peacefully in their desert state while the Californians take care of the dirty work on the borders, if, that is, any trouble does make it through the California Republic behind the SN mountains. Their encroaching onto Californian land may one day cause trouble once both nations have established themselves. The Lake Tahoe region may act as a buffer zone between the two, as I intend to keep at least South Lake Tahoe for aviation and economic purposes. Alpine County on the other hand, acts as a barriers within itself, the extreme temperatures in the region, sparse population, and lack of roads essentially saves itself from being taken over by Sierra Nevada.

To say, I am at a loss on what to do. If I must, I am willing to cede all of Mono County, parts of Nevada County, and the Lake Tahoe region except for South Lake Tahoe region immediately, already on the California Republic's map. Arstarpool 22:08, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your arguments FXgentleman and Arstarpool, I will be reviewing your arguments, looking over the maps and such. I will hopefully find a reasonable solution by Tuesday. I'm sorry if this seems like a long time but I want my decision to be as fair and as accurate plus I'll be busy on the weekend so I don't want to rush to judgment. If you have anything you'd like to add to help solidify your respective cases post them here anytime. GOPZACK 23:00, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


Gopzack: I do wish to offer a limited rebuttal regarding Mr. A's statement. (1) I posted my article on 2/18/2010 to the proposal section, where it has since been. I clearly outlined my western borders at that time in my article. The article for the CR did not appear about 4/27/2010. Mr. A raised no objections anywhere I am aware of until 5/26 when another writer suggested graduation of my article. (2) The situation in central CA would be chaotic at best well into 1984 and would impact the efforts of any government to function, let alone extend its authority over something as large as the SN. The nuclear strikes aside, the situation would not be a pretty one. Radioactive fallout from Sacramento, SF-Oakland, and other targets would be deposited on areas west of the mountains by winds. Placerville I note is only forty some odd miles away from Sacramento and in the path of fallout. Refugees, many sick, would stream from targeted sites and inundate the areas in question, clog roads, and overwhelm the little existing infrastructure. They would bring disease and other health related problems. A breakdown of law and order would be inevitable under these conditions. Electricity would be out and phone service dead. Given these factors would be Herculean to deal with, it seems improbable even if a government managed to arise and stabilize to a point beyond a city or county level, could find time to address all these problems and logically extend control to areas on the other side of the mountains. In the meantime, the Carson-Reno-Lake Tahoe areas would be far more stable (within the confines of what might pass for stable post DD) and more likely to band together to work for survival and to protect themselves from others. (3) From what I gather, Mr. A may not be as familiar with the SN area as I am. Just because the roads would be functioning does not necessarily mean easy access or linkage through the mountains. I have been to the area and seen how easily they can be blocked, especially when it snows. (4) Lastly, I wanted to address the concerns several people have raised in the last few days over the SNU borders and how they felt they were to large. The map I posted was meant to represent suggested or approximate borders as of 2010. I had planned to explain in my history how it got that way but I never got the chance. I never once believed there would be such a thing as firm borders, given they can be such porous things. I have been to NV many times and know from what I have seen the borders I made could not be strictly enforced, which was why I created the military to patrol them. However, mountain ranges make good borders when you block the few key roads going through them. This makes it harder for large groups to move through, although small groups could via trails or small roads. Additionally, I would like to note I have been in discussion with two senior writers about revising my borders (and overall nation size) to the east based on their concerns. This is the main reason my article has been in proposal for so long. Based on our discussions I had already agreed to shrink my borders as they applied to NV specifically. We are working out the details right now. Thanks.--Fxgentleman 03:06, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


Ah, I see you did not read my entire statement above. I will respond to your statements then.

(1) I clearly stated that I found out that you had posted the borders before you posted the map, so I admit fault on that matter.

(2) As for the radiation issue, you seem to be caught in a Catch 22. If there was a large attack on Sacramento, that would mean more fallout, but less refugees. If there was a smaller attack, the fallout would not reach Placeville, but there would be more refugees. Either way, Placerville is spared of one atrocity, but cursed with another. And contrary to what you may think, Nevada would suffer as well! With the collapse of trade, no working cars, no electricity (all the product of an EMP that eliminated all electricity throughout the 48 mainland states), food would be harder to find except out in the countryside, meaning more chaos in the cities. If you yourself admitted that the Lake Tahoe area was "stable", then why would they bother running off to Sierra Nevada for help when they themselves were going fine? Their distance to Placerville is less than 50 miles as well, so there would be little trouble accessing the "stable" region. I fear that I have check-mated you on that matter, Fx"Gentleman".

(3) As for your statement that I do not know much on the area, this nation is the product of 2 people, remember, both of whom have done research on the area. The freezing over of roads was something that came to my attention, but remember that this would be a problem for Nevada when they are "claiming" the area as well! Remember that many of the disadvantages that apply to California will apply to Nevada, so do not be quick to assume that Carson City is a desert "haven" away from fallout, lack of electricty, violence, etc.

(4) This is not my problem, as all I want is the Californian lands, but I agree that the borders should be shrunk down to a more appropriate size. I posted a picture on your talk page on what I believe to be a good border, but I assume you have yet to see it since you are incommunicado with me.

Arstarpool 04:01, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

State College and Pennsylvania

Can I use State College in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? Arstarpool 18:17, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

I meant like "contact" and trade and other things like that. Arstarpool 18:47, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

I also realized we have the exact same flag, coa, and motto for both of our countries... Arstarpool 19:27, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oh in since you are the caretaker for Canada as well, could I write that Canada fully supports Pennsylvania's decision to return the "temporary" colony in Ontario to Canada once they regain control in the area? Arstarpool 19:32, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Hugo and Waynesboro

I have just gotten your message. Does this fit your needs? The red waves at the bottom symbolize the Red River.


Possible flag for the Free City of Hugo

I am attempting to come up with something for Waynesboro right now. It is a tad more difficult than the other. Hopefully, I'll have something for you by tonight.

I am not lying when I say that I had some difficulty with Wayneboro. Unfortunately, this is the best I can come up with. I do apologize for the poor quality.


Hypothetical flag for Waynesboro, TN

Pennsylvania-Kentucky Relations

Hey Zack, I have a favor to ask of you. Could you give me a rough exchange rate between the Pennsylvania and Kentucky Dollars? I know its an odd favor to ask but I am going to try to include Kentucky and Virginia more in my articles and to do so I need a lot of info that I could not find on either page.

Here are some of my requests/questions:

For example, the Pennsylvanians have a very weak ground military and a not-so-good air force, and as I recall the military of Kentucky have somewhat of a high place in the Kentucky Commonwealth's society, so I would be interested in having Pennsylvania "purchasing" around $10,000,000 OTL dollars worth of helicopters and tanks from Kentucky.

Secondly, me and Jack recently created the United Communities, pretty much a North American version of the League of Nations. Kentucky is invited to the UC, or you can just have the Dixie Alliance register as a whole, its up to you.
Arstarpool 01:42, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ah the 1,000,000 (I had a typo, I originally meant 10,000,000) comes from tariffs and taxes, or quite possibly the CEO of Pennzoil (I had the Penn. based company survive) donating portions of his savings to the government in support of the army creation. I don't see why our nations, although both on the other sides of the Virginian "Empire" could share strong relations as they surprisingly do have many things in common.

As for the United Communities, it is basically a direct successor to the United Nations, only with more changes to better serve the people of North America. It was in fact created earlier than the LoN. It's main purposes are just to bring a common grounds for all survivor nations to talk on, restoring order to the lawless lands around them, and a place that any nation, even a fascist communist dictatorship may have there fair share of representation. Arstarpool 02:36, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, wait, wait, wait, challenging what article? I'm fine with Kentucky, but I did note out some problems on Virginia if thats what you meant, but it seems Yank is slowly correcting them on their own, so I will wait and see.

Here is my argument for 10,00,000 OTL Dollars to Kentucky for military equipment:

  • The New York states/counties are coming under somewhat of heavy fire from the Lawrence Raiders, and blocking the roadways to International Falls.
  • They're not exactly the most friendly people to Canada, and Canada isn't the most friendly people to them either. They would like to be ready when Canada comes knocking on their door for the return of the Canadian protectorate, which by then may be very attached to Pennsylvania, only time will tell.
  • They've had some violent experiences in Ohio recently, and might need a militia to calm that down.

Arstarpool 04:03, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Scratch the Canada stuff out. I have simplified the purchase to a couple M113's and about 9 Jeeps. That should total out to about 2,200,000 dollars, which I'm assuming that government has in surplus. If not, they can cut the funding to project "Road to Ohio" in half, and save a good chunk of money that way. Arstarpool 05:06, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Very well. 12 Jeeps for access to steel mills and Erie's port. Do we have a deal? Arstarpool 18:21, July 27, 2010 (UTC)


I need your help with a big matter with User:Venezuela. I kicked him out of the Georgia article on the Causcaus after he deemed it his own in a way but deleting me and Fede's work, so his revenge was blanking out my article and making a duplicate article. So I marked the duplicate for deletion and reverted his edits. So he blanks out my article again and reverses my deletion request.

Finally, he took it over the top. He deleted some of the things from my user page that I had helped him with, which in my mind is a completely private page.

Please take action, and you know what I mean by action. This is the third time he has vandalized, blanked out, or done other things to other people's work in the past two months. He does not understand that sometimes he can't get what he wants and when that happens he turns into a plain old vandal and spammer. He is basically getting very nasty. Arstarpool 17:33, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

I checked, and he BLANKED OUT MY ARTICLE A THIRD TIME!!! Please help now. Arstarpool 17:33, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

PS: When are me and Fx going to know the result of the SNU Dispute?

Re: Problem


While I can't let you adopt it, since me and Fedelede are still taking care of it, you can help us out with it. I will make you a contributor, which means you can edit it whenever you want. Arstarpool 02:20, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

So I worked on the Georgia article I added the culture and architecture and asked Vladivostok to add Economy and Military Then....

As the caretaker of Georgia, you do not have my permission to have a LoN command there. I kicked you out of the Georgia article, anyways. Arstarpool 01:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

So I create my own article of Georgia which I dind't copy (I even add the flag and Coat of the original Georgia article) and what I edit on the Ars. userpage is that I delete my article Dagetan because he din't do something and I kicked him out..... VENEZUELA 17:50, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

What I suppoesly blanked is what I added because he kicked me out. VENEZUELA 17:51, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

The Republic of Georgia is a partial violation of the QSS and QAA Rules. Let me tell you why:

There is an article that is almost exactly the same with all the same land. The Federation of Georgia. The Federation of Georgia has been here longer and was filled in more, automatically meaning the other Georgia has to go.

As for Dagestan, Vene claimed I didn't do anything. Please look at the [history of Dagestan] to see otherwise.

This isn't that big of a deal, all that has to happen is the Republic of Georgia has to be deleted because it is a violation of an existing article. Arstarpool 18:03, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Also all this start because I was going to put my Venezuelan command on the WCRB when I discovered that Lordganon put me on Georgia and then Arstarpool kicked me out for no reason. VENEZUELA 21:40, July 29, 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome Zack. It does look like you really stepped up to take a leadership role in this wiki. I knew you would do a good job as an admin. Anyway, as for the lack of respect I have been seeing lately, I think we should look into a code of conduct if things continue to get out of hand. Mitro 14:39, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'll send you a draft of my ideas and we can compare notes and then publish it for the rest of the wiki. Not sure when I will get to it though, I have a long list of things to do on here and it keeps getting longer. Mitro 15:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Wookiepedia actually has a proposed policy for regulating the type of behavior we want to avoid. Mitro 16:18, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

TSPTF Responsibilities

If you are receiving this message, you are a member of the TSPTF. In an effort to keep this wiki in tip-top shape, I have made a list of responsibilities on the TSPTF page that I hope you all volunteer to do (at least three of them). If we work together we can make this place into a quality wiki. Mitro 22:17, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Unified Florida

If you are receiving this message you are a contributor to both the Republic of Gainseville and South Florida. I would like to notify you that I plan to do what Brian has been doing with his Texas articles and eventually have a unified Florida comprised of two exclaves connected by the Gulf of Mexico. If you have any objections or would like more land to go under Floridian control please tell me.

PS: This is not something that will happen overnight, but I do plan to make the article here and soon.Arstarpool 20:37, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

1996 GOP Primaries

I have been following GOP politics for years and my family has worked for candidates in every contested GOP presidential primary since 1988. I have read a great deal about the 96' primaries and would like to help you with your 96' Primary page. Keep up the good work, always love reading your posts.

Bill Potter, 13:55 EST, August 9, 2010

What was that?

...What do you want me to say? What is this based on? FYI I sortened things out with Vene and I don't even know what East is talking about. This was an unprovoked attack that is based on a situation that is irrelevant. Tell me this and only this in a short message that what in the past 48 HOURS have I said/done that tipped the glass over. This is wildly inaccurate.

EDIT: Doing a quick research, I find that your attack on me was entirely planned by you, with Mitro having said not one thing about my recent behavior. I suggest that you stop your parade of insulting me and I hope you know that I will notify the rest of the TSPTF about this unprovoked assault.

ANOTHER Edit: here is everywhich situation which I have gotten into. W/ Venezuela: We got into a fight over Georgia and it is now solved. W/ Sunkist: Actually I have not fought with him since May. W/ Fx: I take full responsibility for what happened.

Unless you show me the instances in which I "insult" and "flaunt power I do not have" or anything else you accused me of I will request for you to take a break and that YOU should be removed for lying and falsely acusing someone of something like this. I also find no instances of anybody complaining or making any statements to "deal" with my behavior except for one small dispute with Vene. Arstarpool 02:48, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

You do not know how to put your casw together, do you? I am being threatened of being kicked off the TSPTF because I took a vote on whether or not Erie should be nukes and arguments that have been solved? That's like arresting somebody for a bunch of DUIs five years after they happened. Contrary to what your power-mad ego thinks (It takes one to know one) thinks, tell me when I have recently slipped up. You don't know how much that matters, because right now I am "playing nice" and you are slapping me with events from a couple weeks ago.

Oh, and there was no warning, no on-wiki discussion or complaints or anything and out of the blue when I all I was doing was working on Malta and Florida and you go and humiliate me by starting this little bullcrap tattle-tale on the main page hoping you will create a bunch of rioters that will drive me off wiki. Has anybody agreed so far? Has ahybody else besides you said "Fire him from the tsptf!"? No, nobody said that, and believe me, you claim I am driven mad with power butwhat is that power exactly? Rolling back edits faster? To be honest I am really indifferent about my ranking, but you have to insut me and claiming that it is "something important for all contributors" when in reality you could have just said something on my talk page.

While you sit here madly babbling on how evil I am and things like that look at some of the things you yourself has written, and look at who truly took over the wiki when Mitro was gone. Hell, all I did was participate on the 1983Dd talk page, you were solving bprder disputes and be-bopping all over the place.Oh and if you claim to have talked with Mitro on this matter, why didn't he write it on the main page? Or maybe you yourself wanted to look like the new chief of the site by doing everythig Mitro used to do.

I dont expect you to say you are at fault for making me look like a grade A dick in front of everyone but take a minute to think on what you will really accomplish with me gone. Nobody is at harm, and as evidenced by the first responses some people were in shock that you posted that crud. And what was the mega bullcrap tht I was in edit wars witg Yank? I think ive only worked with Yank twice and both of the times I ended up doing most of the work.

You also seem to forget that I was voted in a majority landslide vote to be TSPTF nominated and stuff when in fact you just asked "is there room for me?". So where along the line other than your rumored "conversations" with Mitro did somebody say that I should be impeached?

I will be honest when I say this but this is provoked by something personal like I did something to you or you dont like me, because it is not the first time you have attacked me (As I recall you have done it about two other times).

You will probably just ignore everything I have pointed out that said you were wrong and instead you will just counter attack me or something.

But thank you Zack for making me look like an asshole in front of everyone for stuff that is irrelevant now but you decided to bring back up to look like a hero. Arstarpool 07:50, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Southern Indiana

I don't quite understand why Indiana would be split up like this?, Why can't it just be all one state and have 3 represntative sectors.--Sunkist- 01:26, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

For State college

What should be on Effects from Dooms Day on State College?Xxmatt58 22:23, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Please see the article entitled State College (1983: Doomsday). In that article it is established as the first provisional government of Pennsylvania. SouthWriter 01:48, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Republic of Spain

I don't know where you got the idea that I handed over Spain to you but I will say this politely as I can that I do not wish to work on any future projects with you after your rather odd, and failed attempt at removing me from the TSPTF, I will never trust you again. For the sake of South Florida & New Rome I hope that we can "stay together for the articles" but for Spain my official statement is that I decline you caretaker privilages and that I am the sole caretaker unless I deem another user appropriate for working on it.

As for the US Atlantic Remnant we can work on it together as it will benefit both you and me, as you will get more land for the ECF and I will get a unique article in the area. Arstarpool 23:33, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


PS: The US Atlantic Remnant will join, however under special conditions of an observer LoN seat and its own military. Other than that it is a member of the ECF fully in every other field. Also, if they reunite with the new United States they will leave the Federation, but that wont happen for a few years at least. Arstarpool 03:17, August 22, 2010 (UTC)\

Pennsylvania-State College

Here is my loose idea for a growth map for the region. This map
is assuming that they dont reunify, but I would need your opinon on reunification before I even think about a unified Pennsylvania. Arstarpool 03:28, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I know that State College will be the capital, but a tentative reunification date for me is somewhere in between late 2011and late 2012. Arstarpool 03:42, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Check out the page I made on Reading, Pennsylvania. You are free to edit it, as I don't have much time but since you appear to be traveling that makes two of us with limited internet access. Arstarpool 03:50, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure that the Aztecs in the Republic of Yucatan will be telling the LoN "I told you so" when all hell breaks loose in 2012. Although that would make an interesting timeline, one with two "Doomsdays". Hmmm... *strokes imaginary pointy Mexican mustache*...Arstarpool 03:55, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Stepping in for a minute. I haven't participated in any of the Pennsylvania-based proposals since writing up Pennsylvania, but I do keep an eye on what's going on (as I do the rest of the North American articles in the timeline). As long as any proposal makes sense within the 1983:Doomsday timeline and premise, said proposal should be considered (and, if applicable, graduated into canon). If you can make Reading work, I'm fine with that. BrianD 04:32, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

My user name (Tbguy1992)

The only reason I create that user name was because those are my initials: my real name is (don't laugh) Tyler Bugg, and I was born in 1992. I'm not ridiculously creative, and that was the best I could come up with a username, and I use it for everything I'm on on the Internet (Supremacy 1914, Command and Conquer Forum's, the AltHist Wikia, Cybernations, YouTube, etc. etc.) So, their, that's why.

And I get the tuberculosis thing quite a bit, anyway. I don't mind. Tbguy1992 05:06, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


I couldn't understand the last part of your message b/c of a typo but go ahead; I'm making all these state articles for people to fill them in and hopefully so the remaining "blank" states (by blank I mean absence of true nations like Superior or Lincoln or something like that) of Oklahoma, Georgia, Alabama, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and any others can be properly written so that the users who decide to make nations from now on in North America have to follow a limited choice set. I think we can both agree that there is no more room for nation states, just little communities. Arstarpool 00:55, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you have the authority to set perimeters in North America to a "limited choice set" for editors of this wiki. While most states have some survivor communities (only Connecticut and Rhode Island, I believe, were totally destroyed (except for refugees that abandoned ruined towns in partially destroyed areas), there is still room for developing areas untouched by bombs. Any proposals will meet the scrutiny of the community as to their viability, so there need not be any further restrictions put on the editors. Things are not as "set in stone" as was once thought. This wiki has a lot of room to grow and improve.
This does not mean that "State templates" as portals to articles about survivor communities aren't needed. I myself created "Georgia (U.S. State)" for that purpose. It is the source of probably one of the last large new state proposals to come along, however. In that I tend to agree with you. If you build a frame, though, at least put a rudimentary info box to identify the pre-doomsday state in question. Then, contact any editor that has produced a nation or community from that state so they can add a synopsis (at least a paragraph) and a link to their articles. SouthWriter 02:33, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed with SouthWriter. If there are limits put on North America, it needs to be a consensus, not the unilateral work of any single editor. That said, I think Arstar is more right than wrong regarding small communities versus large complex nation states, although we should not rule anything out that would work within the parameters of this timeline. You could find survivor communities in all 50 states if you look hard enough. I established Torrington as a survivor community in eastern Connecticut, and Mitro mentioned a place called Block Island as a possible survivor community for Rhode Island, that led to my creating the proposal for Outer Lands. Rhode Island, IMO, is otherwise a radioactive wasteland, because it was so small and the hits on Providence and the fallout in the Northeast would have rendered it uninhabitable. BrianD 02:56, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Brian & South on this. I refuse to rule out anything in this timeline short of gibberish like the "Imperial Empire of New York City"
South your are correct, Arstar does not have the authority nor do I or anyone else. What your proposing Arstar has tinges of totalitarianism in it. I cannot support making contributors "follow a limited choice set". --GOPZACK 03:26, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

I dont know what I was smoking when I said I wanted people to follow a limited choice set... But anyways are you going to work on the page Zack? Arstarpool 03:20, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


Since you made a lot of the cities in Oklahoma can we work on Stillwater together? Arstarpool 03:20, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Alright sure. --GOPZACK 03:28, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

But its Stillwater not Sweetwater. --GOPZACK 03:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I was confused because Sweetwater is a city near Tampa I was in a couple of weeks ago. My bad. Arstarpool 04:34, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


This user has constable rights but has acted in a number of ways since early summer that not only appear to serve his own purposes but make him difficult to work with at best. Very recently he has created a number of gateway articles for 1983:DD that should be open for all editors to use, but writes them as if he is setting editorial policy for the entire timeline. One example is Alabama, in which he huffs that "Brian and South(Writer) took it over pretty much on their own I renounce having anything to do with it" The latest example is having the Celtic Alliance condemn a British survivor nation for heinous crimes, and writing an item on the wcrb news page...then pulling the item, and the section of the main talk page discussing the matter after leaving a message saying it was a joke. I am tired of this activity. This is extremely unprofessional and, if it remains unchecked, could cause significant problems later on, including good, quality editors leaving who don't want to deal with the nonsense. --BrianD 03:52, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Alex has been reprimanded by Mitro, and so is "on notice." However, I have to agree with him that the discussion which he has recently archived. It should have been archived two weeks ago (as Mitro said in the last note of the discussion).
That being said, our man Arstar is pushing the envelope on the Plymouth article. In three weeks I can either remove the "Review" banner or mark the article as "Obsolete." I want both articles to work together, but that is not happening right now. Outer Lands has preeminence and I liked its premise early on. I have publicly stated several times that Plymouth can work, but with changes. Let us all work together for a more efficient time line. --SouthWriter 16:20, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Republic of Yale

I think you need to be aware of Jnjaycpa's Republic of Yale proposal. This potentially could greatly affect Outer Lands, Plymouth and even Vermont if he can satisfactorily answer questions about the proposal's viability and it becomes canon. Arstar and Mitro also know about it and I'd like you to look at it as well. BrianD 19:08, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

new zeppelin company

the articles not complete yet but thank you for your support$ Insert formula here $


If you are receiving this message you are a member of the TSPTF. Owen, which is already causing ruckus, wants to be part of the TSPTF again ! Along with tampering with plans for Smoggy's plans on Albion, he claimed that he did not vote for Smoggy so he could gain respect but then wrote on Louis' page what I am about to write below:"since I successfully nominated Smoggy, can I join the TSPTF now?" - Owen1983He doesn't get it, this guy. I suggest you respond to him. He does not get how we function, he does not understand how to write alternate history, hell, he barely knows how to write English, and he is a grade-A spammer. Some people are already complaining again and hes only been back for about a week or so. Please respond, Arstarpool

Our friend Owen has "adopted" the North Carolina gateway article. BrianD 15:46, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Excuse my French but screw the bastard. I am sick and tired of him and he keeps on insisting that the article is his now even after I and others told him to leave it for a more responsible person. If you or Zack or South or Fx wanted to adopt it I would understand but Owen? Heck no. Arstarpool 18:56, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

You and the Spain Article

Zack I don't know whats wrong with you but you keep on tampering with the Republic of Spain article. First you claimed it was your adopted work when in reality you never contacted me or the authors of Pais del Oro and Spanish Republic, and now you rolled back all my works on the page. Whats the matter? Was it an accident? Arstarpool 04:13, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

new zeppelin company

this articles completed now can it be graduated--Owen1983 14:02, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Owen, read the Editorial Guidelines!!! You say you have but if you did you would realize that this is NOT THE WAY TO GRADUATE AN ARTICLE!!! Mitro 16:24, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

State College

Zack, you can't just double a nations size just because you want to. I rolled back your changes. Plus it conflicts with canon regarding parts of New York that you attempted to take. If you want to double the size of State College than bring it up on the main talk page. If your just making it bigger because you "can" or because you want to compete with North Pennsylvania then we have a problem. Arstarpool 22:55, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

It was that size until you changed the map to something that is not canon. I did not change it in a whim because I felt like it. I am not trying to compete with your proposed article at all. The map I had is canon until you changed the map without asking anyone. It just took me a bit to realize it and fix what you had done. --GOPZACK 23:10, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

What a lie. The original map showed only them controlling Central Pennsylvania, and you decided to double the amount of land they controlled. I will post some pictures here; the original map, your second map, and then my map. Arstarpool 23:18, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

That gallery is inaccurate. This is the real file history. --GOPZACK 23:27, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

What you have done Arstar is hijacked an article this not yours. Inserted a map that is not canon and changed what is actually canon. If you want to change the map then make a note on the talk page. Arstar you need to relax and stop accusing people of lying. If you look at the file history, you are the on that changed size without saying a peep.--GOPZACK 23:27, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
Screen shot 2010-09-19 at 7.21.41 PM

I've protected the page to avoid a further edit war.GOPZACK 23:30, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Look at the first reversion. Small nation in central Pennsylvania. Second reversion. You made it much bigger, stretching all the way to New York. Third one. I made it considerably smaller again. You can see the rest but than you can see that you restored it to the double size. Arstarpool 23:41, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

To quote the former President I "Misunderestimated" the size of State College. It only made sense to make the area larger. Besides the map you detest was in place for months until you placed a map that was not canon. GOPZACK 00:12, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
How do you "Misunderestimate" it? That was the size it was at at graduation, how can you say "It was an accident"? The original map was not the normal map that just "highlights counties", you actually drew a boundary line that showed it in specifics. So no, it does not make sense. You either wanted more land or you didn't want North Penn growing in the area (you have already shown your disgust with the article). Arstarpool 00:27, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
Don't delude yourself, I do not have disgust for North Penn, you know that. With Erie out of the picture the article had to change and like any reasonable contributor I had to make sure those changes were implemented.
Frankly I don't care what you do with North Penn so long as its plausible. You forget that State College while by no means a superpower is a stronger nation then North Penn and is the legitimate successor to the state government at Harrisburg. North Penn is the illegitimate successor if they were to ever claim that title.
Look Arstar, I'm human I make mistakes like making State College too small. --GOPZACK 00:41, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
How is that a mistake? A small nation is more realistic. Arstarpool 00:57, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
We're not done here, Zack. Just restore it to its original size! I'm sure Brian thought differently when he created the Pennsylvania article rather than a nation state that encompasses the majority of damn Pennsylvania. Arstarpool 01:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
I suggest you re-read the Pennsylvania state article before you revert my map revert again. Just take a neutral stand when reading and think to yourself "is this really plausible?". Arstarpool 01:43, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Lexington, Kentucky

At some point, would you mind if I wrote up an article on Lexington? It would touch on the collapse of the state government in Frankfort and the fleeing of a few state executives to Lexington, and the city's regional government status, its eventual union with the E'town government and its current status. I'd like to get farther along on Auburn before I start on Lexington. --BrianD 16:51, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely, especially since Kentucky is your article. The only thing I won't bend on is making UK basketball a powerhouse :) I do have a few questions: 1) how prominent is Lexington in relation to the rest of Kentucky? 2) how many people live in the city and the surrounding region? 3) is there a map anywhere showing how CK and the VR have divided the former state of Kentucky, county-wise?BrianD 21:01, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow or Thursday. BrianD 22:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

The map will help when it comes time to begin the Lexington article. At 400,000 Lexington should be one of the biggest cities in all of North America in TTL. As I said I want to get farther along on Auburn before starting yet another article. Two weeks from now work for you? Hopefully by then I'll have had the state government evacuate Tuskegee for Auburn, setting up the finale for that particular article. BrianD 23:19, October 1, 2010 (UTC)


Sorry about that. I completely forgot about you having already adopted it. I have been temping for Sears corporate and I have been so busy I just have been in a daze with anything else outside of work. Mitro 22:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


I've noticed you didn't give me credit for Arkansas on your user page. Not to take credit or be concieted or anything but I created the page and I was the one who gave you permission to edit on it. It's not a big deal but still. Arstar [talk] 00:39, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


I defer to your judgment with Owen, since my new job is keeping me away, however I think you might want to explain to him why he is blocked. It is only fair and its better coming from you than hearing a rant from Yank. Mitro 13:49, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going on a wiki-break for the next few days. I really need a break. I am informing you of this since you are one of the most active admins, so keep the place in order while I'm gone. Mitro 03:25, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
I'll be around off and on this weekend - let me know if I can help. BrianD 23:15, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

ANZC parliament

I was reading the section you wrote up on the parliament last night, and had a few questions. 1, are you saying that Australia's parliament is also the ANZC parliament? or 2, is it a combination of the Australia and New Zealand parliaments, or 3, a new parliament altogether?

I also think there is some confusion on people's parts on how the ANZC is structured: is it one giant super country, or more like the British Commonwealth, but made up of different nations sharing the same military, currency and economic and political policy? There would be room for confusion, for people referring to it as the ANZC or as Australia. I'd like to clear that up, and also further develop the region. I've left a message on Arstar's talk page to see if he'll let me finish up the articles on Australia and New Zealand he says he has no time or interest in, and once that is determined I'll have a better idea on how to proceed on the ANZC. --BrianD 17:53, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

So basically the Australia, New Zealand, Samoa and Micronesian parliaments were all merged into one entity? I ask this knowing that you're not the original author and I'm not sure if Xi'Reney had in mind for the ANZC parliament. My question is then if there's one giant parliament, does it also do double-duty for affairs regarding their own nations (the Australian contingent rules on Australian affairs, Samoans on Samoan affairs, etc.), or is there a separate Samoa-only Parliament, etc.?
I also wanted to get your opinion on what I wrote up regarding the Governor-General be the head of state for the commonwealth, while the head of state and government for three of the four "integral territory" nations are their prime ministers (Micronesia's HoS and HoG - yeah, I know what that looks like :) - is its governor general, and Samoa's HoS is its Chief). BrianD 19:41, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


I don't know if you noticed, but I volunteered myself to try and fix the issues with Superior, Canada, etc.

I know there wasn't really an answers or anything - it seems to have been ignored besides Arstar, who told me to "go ahead" with Superior. But since you're the caretaker of Canada, I was wanting your permission to mess with the article(s) before I tried to work something out.

Lordganon 14:24, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry this took so long.

Note this is identical to what I put on Arstar's page and the main 1983 page.

  • Eastern borders of Superior rolled back to the Island, and south east rolled back to tip of the peninsula.
  • Midland borders rolled back southward/westward.
  • Establishment of Sudbury and Kingston city states.
    • Sudbury effectively allied to Superior, having been aided by Superior with food, etc.
    • Kingston held by Canadian remnants in region.
      • Kingston as on map shrunk.
    • Kitchener established as well, opposition to London.
      • Likely not a member of the UC due to this.
  • Ontario city-states generally supportive of Superior, hosting military teams and exploratory parties and even looking into joining the state until the discovery of both Kingston and the word of the definite survival of Canada through the raiders.
    • Still meet up with Maine/Vermont forces, who confirm everything.
    • Still work with it, as Canadian government cannot get support to them, but now refuse to join them.
      • Leads to the various city-states (inc. Sudbury) joining the United Communities, except TB, Kingston, and Midland.
  • Add the nuclear destruction of Hamilton and CFB Gagetown, as well as second strikes on Montreal (at Laval), Toronto (At Missisauga) and CFB Edmonton (strike on city itself over Strathcona, on the south side of the river).
  • Superior desires to gain the city-states, so they fund/supply the Raiders using roads, etc. through Sudbury and north of Midland and Kingston
    • This ensures that the Canadian government cannot break the raiders and regain the area, though they have been weakening them as of late, with the addition of Ara~ efforts from the south.
      • The raider-controlled zone has shrank as defined in its article as a result.
  • Ends up being no proof that saq~ aided the raiders.
  • All maps need to be adjusted, for territory adjustments, and going away from the inaccurate "blockly" borders of many of the countries of the area (Ont. countries and Saq~).
    • Sag~ gets more coast, so sea invasion of Gaspe possible.
  • Superior expedition that finds out about Canada leaves Sudbury, with much the same result, except the discovery of Kingston.
    • Contact with Midland made during original east expedition, when Superior helps them get rid of brigands near their borders (Barrie?) on their return from the ruins of Ottawa.
    • Contact with the states in Southern Ontario made during the southern expedition, about the same time as exploring the ruins of Windsor/Detroit, after hearing rumors of survivors.
      • Meet up with London officials, and gain knowledge of Kitchener, Norfolk, and the Falls as well.
    • Contact with Sudbury about the same time as Thunder Bay, only from the eastern group.
      • Both explore the ruins of North Bay before Superior forces continue to the east.
      • Superior begins to trade food for materials from the mines.
    • Contact with Kingston (much shrunk from the map) occurs during the second eastern mission.
  • Despite the United Communities, the dispute between Canada and Superior drives most to be wholly neutral.
    • Sudbury continues to supply Superior with resources and allow movement of forces though their territory, but does not officially support them.
    • Like Sudbury, Kingston does not officially support one side or the other.
      • However, they do try to make life more difficult for Superior.
    • The Falls favors Canada, but does nothing.
    • Toledo and N. Penn. Stay the same in attitudes.
      • Penn does send some troops to help kill the Raiders, however, as well as openly supporting Canada.
      • No real reaction from Toledo.
  • Due to Superior supporting the Raiders, they can get troops through the area to Gaspe, where they assist the invasion.
    • Still unknown where raiders are from, but based in Drummondville
    • Raiders once held a large region, Ottawa to Canadian Quebec and US border area to the national parks the other way.
      • At the end hold from ruins of Montreal to ruins of Quebec, other ones roughly same.
        • No longer raiding northern townships.
  • Sag~ war starts out the same way.
  • Gaspe still taken, fighting much the same elsewhere, etc.
    • Republic of St. Lawrence declared.
    • No territory taken elsewhere.
  • ADC still intervenes.
    • Celtic forces break the deadlock in Gaspe, allowing Canada to regain control over the "Republic."
    • These forces begin to invade raider territory, pushing Superior troops west and north, but eventually being stopped.
    • Sag~ forces make small advances in the north.
  • Foreign intervention, largely through the LoN, prevents anything else.
  • Peace Treaty still has the same result.
    • Superior, not Sag~ is responsible for the raiders, and agree to stop - Ara~ and Vermont forces will act to ensure this.
      • Aro~ and Vermont will also aid Canada and Kingston in removing the Raiders.
    • Sag~ recognized by Canada.
    • Canada drops objections to Superior controlling the area of Canada it does.
      • Thunder Bay to go whichever way referendum does.
      • Windsor region to be left for future arbitration.
    • Superior will also agree to not annex any of the survivor states in Ontario.
      • Thunder Bay is the exception.
    • Investigation of the Assassination of the Sag~ PM shows rouge elements of Canada First responsible.
      • Vote of Confidence in Canadian Parliament, government loses due to defections.
      • Both Canada First and the Liberals lose the election, having both lost the confidence of the people.
        • Third Party, likely the Conservatives, comes to power.
        • NDP would also gain something.
        • Canada First will not be banned, however.
    • It is agreed that a very small amount of reparations will be paid by Canada to Sag~, for civilian damages.
    • Canada, since it controls one end of the river and their allies in Kingston have the other, will gain the valley once control is regained from the raiders.
    • The Canadian government must also drop its veto in the LoN to Superior joining.
    • General status quo with territory around Sag~
  • States in Ontario all have a resurgence in Canadian nationalism, as shown in the results of the referendum in Thunder Bay.
    • Kingston becomes capital of Canadian territory.
    • Thunder Bay becomes another.
    • Sudbury begins to isolate itself from Superior.
    • Midland begins to warm to Canada, becoming like Kingston was pre-war.
    • London, Kitchener, and the Falls have increased Canadian nationalism, but the governments maintain a more neutral position.
    • An official territory formed along the Bay - "Hudson."
  • Results of Thunder Bay referendum need to be added.
    • Some sort of condition, likely the construction of a road between TB and Hudson within a reasonable timeframe, is also set.
  • Invitation for both Canada and Sag~ to join the UC
  • Raiders still present south of the river, but fairly safe passage to the north cleared.
  • Articles that would need editing:
    • Superior
    • Superior military articles, possibly
    • History of Superior
    • Possibly the United Communities, slightly
    • London, Niagara Falls need to be slightly edited
      • References in N. Penn. need to be reworded, and Toledo really should have something added.
    • Canada
    • History of Canada
    • Aroostook
    • Sagueny~
    • The War itself
    • Republic of St. Lawrence
    • Midland
    • Thunder Bay
  • Articles for Sudbury, Kitchener, and Kingston need to be written.
    • Norfolk needs to be finished.

And, I once again remind that I will do it all if no one else is willing but I am allowed. Thoughts/Objections to any points?

Given its size, please quote any problem lines.

Lordganon 06:08, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Some notes:

I would have Superior and Saguenay jointly aiding the St Lawrence Raiders, since Saguenay aiding them has long been established

Canada wins the war and are the ones attacked, why would they pay reparations?

Canada First seems like they would be a replacement for the PCs, I think the NDP would likley be the big winners after that, considering how Canadians seem to vote (don't care about party ideals, just about who they don't want to be in power)

Oerwinde 09:34, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Reparations for the attacking of civilians in Saq~, as was discussed in the war article. Even the version I've written out in notes here has them not really "winning." It's still a draw, as seen by the peace settlement. Liberals were in power before the war started, and CF came into power after that. The PCs are still about as strong as the liberals, and given normal opposition to the NDP, it is much more likely that the PCs would come to power. The Sag~ article is the only place it is mentioned that they are aiding the raiders - all other areas have it unknown. It is fine with them supporting them too, but it would be more plausible for it to be Superior only, in my books. Lordganon 09:54, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about the length, lol. Like I said, a lot of thinking/reading.

The Midland borders on that map are what I was thinking, more or less, though it will need to be edited for superior borders.

But feel free to add any of it to the involved articles. I'm willing to do it all if need be, but I would prefer to avoid it, lol.

Lordganon 03:48, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

State of Indiana

Zack, I was hoping that you could think over the unification of the states of Bloomington, Southern Indiana and Evansville into one state, or would the Kentucky Senate allow Baron Hill to follow up with this?--Sunkist- 05:21, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've created a page about the southern part of Indiana, Southern Indiana . it talks about how Baron Hill has been working with the Governors and Senators for the last five years. Baron Hill will pull this up in the next Kentucky Senate meeting, who would say no and who would say yes?--Sunkist- 17:31, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Also, what type of powers do the states have?--Sunkist- 17:38, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Lincoln's Borders

This is what I thought up on Lincoln's territory and claims.

Lincoln's Borders

Dark Red= Controlled by Lincoln, Light Red= Claimed by Lincoln, Blue= NAU's Nebraska

Yankovic270 23:48, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they'll do quite nicely.

Yankovic270 00:43, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

The Last Straw - Owen

I'm sick and tired of this little punk. Fake accounts, spamming, horrible grammar. I would ban him if I could but since I have as many administrative rights as a mall cop/boy scout on this wiki I can't do it. Leutenient Zack, would you be willing to perma-ban Owen? Arstar 17:00, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

"Blocked for tomfoolery", lol. Arstar 17:16, October 9, 2010 (UTC)


Zack, thanks for nominating me as a lieutenant. We'll see what the community says, but I'm happy to help the TSPTF in any way needed.BrianD 04:52, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Mr. r

Why did you block this guy for 6 months? You did not explain why on his talk page? Mitro 01:34, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Six months was far too long, I was wrong I reduced it to a week. He inserted some false incoherent information to the History of Vermont page. I will note the same thing on his talk page. --Zack 01:38, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

TSPTF nominees

Last week Lordganon was nominated as a constable and I was nominated as a lieutenant. I realize that we're all busy, and the Owen saga has captured people's attention as well. Is there anything that could be done to remind everyone of the nominations so Lordganon and I aren't left hanging?BrianD 20:04, October 15, 2010 (UTC)


I made a few changes in local newspapers and sports. Change them back if you like, but as a resident I'm very familiar with the area papers and with the sports scene. I changed the local papers' names to their OTL counterparts. They didn't exist in their current form in 1983, but my feeling is the merger of the local morning and evening papers that happened in OTL would have been accelerated as a result of Doomsday. I also believe that a city of 400,000 would in fact have a daily newspaper.

In regards to the publishing schedules, I see what I believe you were getting at...they're publishing 3-4 days a week. Newspapers wouldn't publish every other day for a number of reasons, one being that if you literally did that you'd be publishing Mon-Wed-Fri-Sun on one week and Tue-Thur-Sat the next. I don't know of any newspaper that's ever done that. Advertisers and readers would prefer a consistent publishing schedule, knowing publication is always going to be, say, Tuesday, Friday and Saturday each week.

Also, I went ahead and fleshed out sports, and wrote in UK as the nation's de facto home team. That's what UK is even now in OTL, and it would be more so in TTL (and probably the home team in most of the Virginian State of Cumberland, too -- some loyalties refuse to die). I also had Keeneland as a functioning racetrack and the home of the Derby, and wrote in some details about the high school athletics in the Commonwealth. BrianD 01:41, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate you adding that information. It really needs to updated, thanks for getting the ball rolling Brian! You seem to know the Kentucky sports scene better then I do, so its great to have an "expert" editing the article. --Zack 20:15, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

East American Alliance/Tennessee reunification

I put this on the East American Alliance talk page, and I'm placing it here as well so I know you see it.

Guys, I've added the former CSA (Muscle Shoals) states to the list of potential members. South and I haven't really developed the Appalachian States alliance beyond a mention here and there in the Piedmont and Blue Ridge and East Tennessee articles; I don't know how he would feel about joining the East American Alliance but I am open to Blue RIdge and East Tennessee joining. I also think the CS states should formally join. The Tennessee (Adamsville) state is one that Zack had adopted some time ago; I caretake Corinth and Florence, and the other states haven't been adopted by anyone so they could easily be added if you like. Thoughts?BrianD 16:35, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Also, I re-read Zack's comments regarding reunification of Tennessee. We'd have to consider how separate East Tennessee culture is from the rest of the state, and what reunification would look like. East to west and back is much longer and less easier post-DD than it was pre-DD and is now in OTL. You'd have to have reliable, and safe, roads and railways connecting east to west. Kentucky and Virginia would also probably have to prop up the state while it reorganized and got back on its feet. The capital would need to be in the middle of the state, to balance east and west.

I like the idea of reunifying Tennessee, and for that matter Mississippi and Alabama further down the road. Right now though the immediate need is to get the former CS states into the Alliance fold. BrianD 16:47, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Bryan, I still think that the Appalachian Alliance is more or less a "done deal," even though we have not, as you say, "developed it." It is more of a trade agreement than anything else, and is open to being incorporated into the newly re-named "East American Alliance." I just re-read the article and I note that the "new" name is to be assumed from the beginning. However, are we to assume the militaristic nature of the East American Alliance to be the same as it was in the beginning? I am not sure that I can go along with such an alliance.
And also, what is to become of the offer to the successor states by the USA? If they are all allied to the Virginian led EAA, there is little chance of a renewed USA in the East. If I were pressed to guess, though, The larger African American community in Blue Ridge and Piedmont will not take to the flag of the EAA -- the Battle Flag of the Confederacy minus a few stars. Granted, the government of Piedmont is largely drawn from conservative whites - but in OTL Bob Jones III (and his son, if I recall correctly) were vocal contrarians when it came to "taking down the flag" in Columbia. Jim DeMint would also be against it. They support the "Heritage" of the flag, but its flying in an "official" capacity would not go well. SouthWriter 23:17, November 2, 2010 (UTC)


FYI, I'm planning on starting the Lexington page this week (perhaps even today!), and unlike Auburn, it won't drag on and on and on. I'm going to conjecture what happened to Frankfort post-DD, and why the governor and some staffers and legislators escaped to Lexington, as well as when contact between Lexington and E'town happened. As Kentucky is your baby, I don't want to step on your toes, so any historical details you can give me would be greatly appreciated. BrianD 16:47, November 2, 2010 (UTC),_Kentucky_%281983:_Doomsday%29 BrianD 23:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ofa tag

I hope I did not offend you with marking the shadow government report with the ofa tag. After noticiing that no work has been put into the article since September I left at statement in the proposal section asking if anything was happening with this article. When I received no response from you or South I assumed that you had forgotten about the article and so I marked it for adoption.

Again please take no offense by my action. This article was not the only one I recently marked with the ofa tag. I'm just trying to bring notice to some articles that appeared to have been lost in the massive numbers of proposals we have. Mitro 15:51, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

I apologize for not telling you my idea first. How do you think of it? The members of the East American Alliance would be eagerly jumping at the first chance to be well-known on the world stage. Plus if they are sucessful in overthrowing the fascist regime, they would get brownie points with the OBN, the Celtic Alliance, and the post-fascist Scottish regime.

Yank 05:03, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Indiana Limestone

I was wondering about starting a building project in the Commonwealth, possibly a monument to honor those who died during Doomsday - made out of Indiana Limestone..which is cheap and abundant in Indiana around Bedford and Bloomington. It looks nice - been used to make the Empire State Building, the Baltimore Estate and the Pentagon. Thanks .--Sunkist- 04:17, November 17, 2010 (UTC)


Just a quick and random question for you, did LG adopt Canada from you? Arstar 05:57, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Kentucky-UC Application

Hey, I was wondering if it would be okay to write that Kentucky will be joining the UC in January of 2011 as that's the UC's next Applicant Season. Believe me I'm not going to start pulling strings and taking control over Kentucky but it would be a fine addition to the Union (thats the best abbreviation I could come up with). Arstar 21:48, November 19, 2010 (UTC)


Thats just something up in the air like the League of United American States...don't worry. Arstar 22:53, November 21, 2010 (UTC)


Hey I was wondering if I could use the Halifax strike zone on the news article on the main page, which is part of your article for Canada. I originally had that on there but LG removed it and replaced it with Buffalo, going on with his whole "Canada thinks the UC is a kiddy club"-esque mentality which he has kinda put into effect on a lot of articles. But since your the primary caretaker I'd like to get your approval to use Halifax.

If you don't get the news article really well its just stating that Halifax is going to be one of the strike areas treated for de-contamination. Not that its going to be 100% effective but somehow everyone else overlooked that contamination can be removed a lot faster if you dispose the right way. Arstar 00:10, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

1983DD Portal Page

What is going on with this page? Why are all the edits of this new user being reverted. Most of it is just spelling and grammar, why is this an issue? Mitro 04:11, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

OK as I take a deeper look I do see some poor edits. I will leave it to you and LG to handle this. Mitro 04:21, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

My appologies....

Sorry about that, I am new to this site and I am still learning the rules. Right as you sent your message, I had sent a message to another member (who was my first point of contact here) to ask him if I was doing this correctly. For a second, I thought he was psychic and had anticipated and answered my question before I had even sent it!! =P I will refrain from putting my signature on minor edits on 1983: Doomsday. Thank you, and I'm sorry for the disturbance. =)

-Joey 04:29, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Unusual Points of divergence in American History

Currently I am writing an alternate history book for my younger brother. I am trying to find unusual points of divergence in North American history. If you think you can help, message me. Mumby 13:26, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Tom Petty

This may sound a bit funny to you: The wife is probably the biggest Tom Petty fan on earth, and I made the mistake of telling her he survived on here.... lets just say she wasn't pleased it wasn't done, lol.

Would it be possible for me to work on that a bit? (Using a guideline you have in mind, or course, if there is one)

Lordganon 08:22, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

So, could I work on it? :p Figure I've waited long enough for an answer, lol. Probably start in on it next month, give or take, barring hearing from you. Lordganon 13:02, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

I've left a note now on the article asking asking if anyone would object to me taking it over. Thought I'd let you know. Lordganon (talk) 02:21, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

New Jersey

<kicks self for having forgot about it>

South and Mitro fixed the original problem, so it is now proposal-worthy again. Reversed it and put it back on the page.

Lordganon 11:32, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

College Ball (Napoleon's World)

Dunno how much you follow college football in the real world, but I'm doing a poll of all the different users I regularly talk to on here to see who they'd like to see win the different bowl games this season in the Napoleon's World TL. Whoever gets the most votes wins!

  • National Championship at the Sugar Bowl: #1 Huron Highlanders (13-0) vs. #2 Nova Scotia Sea Lions (12-0)
  • Texas Bowl: #4 LSU Tigers (12-1) vs. #10 Washington Huskies (10-2)
  • Rose Bowl: #3 Pacifica Orcas (12-1) vs. #8 Indiana Hoosiers (11-2)
  • Silver Bowl: #5 Kahokia Thundering Herd (11-1) vs. #9 South Carolina Gamecocks (10-2)
  • Orange Bowl: #6 Cuba Spaniards (12-1) vs. #14 Northern Apachia Billy Goats (11-1)
  • Peach Bowl: #20 Mississippi Falcons (9-4) vs. #17 Maryland Terrapins (9-4)
  • Manhattan Bowl: #7 Eastern New York Flying Dutchmen (11-1) vs. #18 Missouri Tigers (9-3)
  • Paradise Bowl: #11 Florida State Seminoles (10-2) vs. #22 USC Trojans (8-4)
  • Chicago Bowl: #12 Michigan State Spartans (10-2) vs. #21 Alabama Crimson Tide (8-4)
  • Citrus Bowl: #13 Nebraska Cornhuskers (10-2) vs. #15 Massachusetts Minutemen (10-2)


KingSweden 20:23, December 20, 2010 (UTC)


It's pretty obvious that your posting these messages because you want to embarress me over my comments on the city of Gainesville. Do we go around posting messages on the main talk page every time someone talks about a proposal/article privately? No! So leave the discussion alone. I'm deleting it for a reason. There's a dozen other article discussion going on talk pages that you could have posted, but you chose mine to post. Just for once, stop singling me out. Don't deny it because there's physical proof of times you've pointed me out for things others (or even yourself) have done. Arstar 02:09, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Burying the Hatchet

I'm coming to you today to bury the hatchet.

Let's face it. You're right, we are going to clash no matter what. I've been a dick, you've been a dick before, you might say I have more and I'm going to say you have more. Fact of life, people like defending themselve. But, think about it. Look at your first response. You mentioned a lot of issues that were not what we were dealing with and were extinct. All I wanted was for you not to post my messages, irregardless of content on the main talk page. I was wrong on many occasions too, and the last dispute with Brian went unresolved, something that upset me.

If we're going to clash, it's better that we have long periods of detene than just always arguing. I know for a fact that this won't be the last time we end up fighting. So I'm offering today to enter a period of detene, a truce if you want to get speechy and metaphorical. I'm not going to apoligize and I'm not going to argue more, I just want to move on. But, I guess I am apoligizing in a way, too. I have a lot of stuff to do in real life and quite frankly I admit I had made more proposals than I could have worked on. I have a weird habit of also liking to work on my canon articles than my proposals because I feel that since they're already canon than I'll have no worries that the work will go to waste becoming obsolete.

All I want to do right now is finish whatever of my proposals I can and likely make a couple United Communities-related pages and I'm closing up shop proposal-wise for the next while. But seriously, I just want to get this argument over with because it's kinda been bugging me a lot. So lets bury the hatchet, Arstar 07:33, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

TSPTF Call Out

Hi. If you are receiving this message it is because you are a member of the TSPTF, but did not respond to the TSPTF Call Out. If you still consider yourself an active member, please leave a short message on the TSTPF talk page. If you do not feel you can be an active member of the TSTPF, please leave a message at the TSPTF talk page or contact me with your retirement notice. If you do not respond to this message, you will be marked as an inactive member. Thank you for your service to this wiki. Mitro 16:20, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Arkansas, 1983

Some inconsistencies and errors with regards to this article, compared to other, older and more advanced, articles, have come to light. As such, it was put up for review. So you know about it.

Lordganon 10:19, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Britannia's Frontier

If you look at my TL here,, I wish to enlist your help. Its about if the Mayflower Pilgrims were forced South rather than North by bad weather, so the Puritan Pilgrims slowly integrate into Anglican Virginian culture, and New England is less settled. But I don't know much about this era, so if you can help, I would be most happy. Mumby 17:55, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Admiral Washington

Hello. I sw that you were an expert on the American Revolution, and I just wanted to see what you thought about an idea I had for an alternate history timeline.

Basically, what if Washinton had joined the Navy instead of the Army. Reading his biography, I saw that when he was about 14, his brother and his mentor had devised a plan to get him to join the Royal Navy. His mother refused, since she wanted him by her at all times. But, what if they had been able to convince her? Or, rather, what if Washington hadn't listened? He would have been in the navy, maybe have become Captain of a ship, but thats probably too much to ask of the Royal Navy towards a colonial. When the Revolution comes around, he joins the US Navy as a privateer. Maybe a Washington - John Paul Jones team up?

Anyway, without Washington in the Army, Patrick Henry gets put in charge, as he was the only serious contest in the beginning. However, he probably gets proved inept at military command, and Horatio Gates is put in charge of the Continental Army. The Revolution may actually hgave started earlier, since Washington defused an incident with his militia where they wanted to storm a building in the Virginia capital or something like that. Without him around. they might have done it, and it would have been obvious that the colonials shot first, so to say. After that, i can't really say.

Just wondering what you thought, and if it was something worth doing. Azecreth 14:22, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Your Opinion on American Spring

Are you really intent on having Kentucky join the new United States? Do you really want to sever ties with Virginia? Because that's bound to happen if you do so. Do you really want to fragment (or possibly kill) the East American Alliance? You would be bringing unnecessary political conflict to an area that has known stability only for a few short years. I still find it dubious that the new US would even make it far enough to be able to annex Kentucky, let alone the USAR. The American Spring is a product of a young, idealistic user who either can't or won't believe that the US is irreparably balkanized.

Yank 04:06, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Zack, for jumping in to the discussion. You're on my "watched" page, so I clicked through.
Please, Yank, don't get back in to the role playing mode. The American Spring is actually the product of Mitro, and the young idealistic user is not that much younger than you. He is, though, a resident of the United States and certainly has a right to his views. I am three times your age and am probably the most enthusiastic supporter for the idea still in the running.
It is true that if Kentucky slides over to the US it will be a blow to your own idea of what is possible. But your pessimism is surely able to be contained in your own articles. Most of the writers who are contributing to the articles of the US are residents here, and are patriots willing to believe in the American Spirit. I am not questioning your loyalty to your own government, but it gets old hearing you harp on the 'demise of the US' with your Virginian Republic and the others. You have a right to your articles as your creations duly graduated. However, Zack has already admitted that the "East American Alliance" may indeed end (since it is basically just Kentucky and Virginia anyway) with the coming of this new, bigger alliance with other Americans. That is a 'risk' he is willing to take, going with viability where he can. SouthWriter 04:55, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for the slow reply, but I think Kentucky is destined to return to the United States, as will smaller city states like Cape Girardeau. All of this is a few years off however as the necessary infrastructure will need to be in place. --Zack 22:53, September 17, 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I think that the infrastructure is strong, especially in Kentucky, for a move even now. The problem is, the progress has been downplayed due to presuppositions. There would not be a move to reuniting the states unless the USA thought that the time was ripe. The fact that the APA and then the ANZC have taken so long to respond to the tragedy of Doomsday does not mean that the resilient Americans in North America sat around in the rubble. It is really nonsense to talk about needing "League of Nations" help before electronics could be rebuilt after the EMP's. But I digress. The point is, if we 'put it off a few years" it will not be done in this time line. What the time line needs is action, and the "American Spring" is that action we need. If influential editors and administrators take on this challenge, then we can bring 1983DD into the 21st century.
So you think Cape Giradeau would rejoin Missouri, then? I need to get some work done on the Missouri government at Hannibal. You're the caretaker of Joplin, also, so do you think after the disaster, that the city-state there will warm to re-uniting with the government at Hannibal? --SouthWriter 23:22, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for Brass

Hi, Zack. With Ben's abrupt departure (retirement to Emeritus status), there is going to be another opening to the Brass. Are you interested? You're my first choice and I won't ask anybody else until I hear back from you. SouthWriter 18:52, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I guess you have not been working on much of this over the summer, huh? I got your note on my talk page and i must admit that I had forgotten about this. As it is, the activity on the wiki is mostly map games right now. Ganon works those regularly but I hardly ever look at any of them unless I am asked to moderate a dispute. I myself really don't get on like I used to, so I certainly understand why you might not have time to commit to the project. Other brass have resigned or retired, but I just sort of hang on to occasionally offer a different voice over against Ganon.

So far, the need for help at the top has not grown, but I will still keep you in mind. SouthWriter (talk) 00:54, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

West Palm Beach

Zack, I was wondering if I could adopt the obsolete page you wrote several years ago on West Palm Beach. Arstar talk 17:00, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

I wanted it to tie in with the page I did on Miami and the fate of its survivors. I was thinking that Palm Beach would initially survive the blast itself but would eventually devolve into several walled settlements fighting eachother over resources. In the present day it might end up being restored by the Republic of Florida or less likely become the mainland base of operations for the US Atlantic Remnant depending on how South, LG and I work out the Unification issue regarding the New United States and the Remnant. What do you think? Arstar talk 20:11, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Population estimate

I think the guy just wanted to earn badges. Maybe he figured it was an estimate anyway, so what's an extra 100 million people? :-)

I'm sure your revert will stand. I was going to handle it, but the first post to a talk page is a hassle so I left the new guy alone. SouthWriter (talk) 01:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Alternate Future History

Is it allowed to write alternate future histories in this wiki? In the Future Wiki, I had been writing about the w:c:future:Caribbean Empire, a future empire based on or own timeline. And I would like to write about a future empire based on the Caribbean Empire, but on the timeline. If not, can you tell me the wiki appropriate for alternate future histories?

Can I have a permanent ban here?-Ismael777

American Monarchy

Happened to notice that you are one of the experts on the American Revolution. I was wondering if you had any information about the founding fathers or Constitution Convention ever considering a monarchy for the United States. Any info is helpful, thanks! (GreatEmperor (talk) 02:18, July 6, 2014 (UTC))

Spanish Civil War

If there was no fascism in the world, would the Spanish Civil War still happen if a Socialist military leader tried to start it with the USSRs backing?? --Warhead77777 (talk) 06:34, August 23, 2014 (UTC)

Emeritus status

Hey, Zack. We've been doing some housekeeping and are moving the names of inactive admins to the Alternative History:TSPTF#Officers Emeriti list. I moved you down there because you have not been very active lately. Whether you see this today or years from now, you're always welcome to move it back if you still are / become active. Thanks, Benkarnell (talk) 23:10, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

North Penn and State College

Hey Zack, I've returned to the 1983: Doomsday after a few years of calling it a day and getting on with other parts of my life and I've felt like now is a good time to return to the project. I know we had our scuffles in the past (and I would like to apologize for my part in that) but we still put together several good articles when working in collaboration with other authors.

That being said, I was wondering if I could either adopt State College or if you would be interested in returning to float around the idea of uniting State College and North Pennsylvania. This may expand to include other Pennsylvannian countries, quite possibly Reading and a proposal by a newer user called the Commonwealth of Susquehanna or even the New York Republic but I have concrete ideas that would work with just SC and NP. Let me know soon, thanks. Arstar talk 12:52, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

1983 Doomsday adoption requests

Hello! I was wondering if you, as their creator, would be okay with me adopting the pages for Joplin, Stillwater, and Hugo in the 1983DD timeline. I'd also like to request to adopt Hot Springs; The Talk page for the larger former state of Arkansas has some very interesting story ideas regarding the Clintons there that were never implemented, but don't seem to contradict established canon. I'd like to possibly see if I can implement some of those ideas in a way that fits canon, and I think Hot Springs would likely play a role in the story as the largest survivor community in former Arkansas. I hope all's well and wish you all the best! GryffindorKrypton (talk) 01:54, April 2, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

Hey again, Zack! Thanks for responding to my message! I'd love to work together on Joplin, Stillwater, Hugo, and Hot Springs. Before I pitch any of my own ideas, since you were the original writer of those pages, I want to first ask if you have any ideas or plans for where you'd like the story to go with those. Then I'll share some of mine. Looking forward to collaborating! GryffindorKrypton (talk) 01:31, April 7, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton 

I could definitely see those as likely outcomes. I had given some thought to Joplin joining the new US in the aftermath of the 2011 tornado destroying much of the local infrastructure (assuming it would take longer for a self-contained territory to rebuild in this timeline). I dunno, what do you think? 

I agree that I could definitely imagine that by 2020 Hugo and the other local communities could form a new, reunified Oklahoma together. The last entry on Hugo's page already discusses plans for this to happen too. 

I agree we could merge Stillwater into the new US, and possibly Kentucky and new Oklahoma down the line like you mentioned. A lot of these places have a good several years between 2011 and 2020 that are still not explicitly discussed, so maybe we could come up with a timeline of events for maybe reunifying Oklahoma sometime between 2011 and 2017ish and possibly bringing it and/or Kentucky into the new US by 2020? 

Also, whatever we do with Hot Springs, I think it could definitely tie into a possible story for Bill Clinton (and Hillary too, for that matter). I was reading a conversation on the Arkansas talk page that floated a lot of really intriguing Clinton story possibilities, and SouthWriter just encouraged me yesterday about implementing some of those ideas, but ideally I'd like to figure out Hot Springs first, since I imagine the Clintons' story would tie in with that. If you think Hot Springs could join Kentucky, maybe we could do that and then explore the internal politics? 

I look forward to hearing from you, glad to be working together! GryffindorKrypton (talk) 20:16, April 8, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton 

Makes sense, I agree. Do you have any specific year in the 2010's in mind for Oklahoma reunification and US statehood? 

As for Kentucky rejoining the US, I guess it would come down to how many votes they'd get in the new Congress. That might be what makes Kentuckians feel one way or another about it. Also, would the whole Commonwealth rejoin the US as one entity or as separate states? That could also be key to figuring it out. 

With regard to the Clintons, I was reading the Talk page for Arkansas and there was a really interesting discussion near the top about the Clintons, that I adapted into a proposal page. I mostly used the main ideas the contributors on that page proposed (Pine Bluff getting hit with a "dud" missile, Bill slyly managing to use it as a deterrent to outside invaders while he sets up a survivor community there, etc.). I also made his story and Mike Huckabee's intertwined by making them political rivals. The story I came up with ties the Clintons in with existing canon such as the Joplin-Hot Springs war by putting Bill in a diplomatic role in that (I know Joplin is your creation, so I hope you like the idea when you read it! I think it fits the existing canon without contradicting anything). Basically I wrote it in a way that incorporates the other contributers' ideas while using Bill's "slick Willy" reputation in a way that hopefully makes for an entertaining story. I'm still adding to the proposal, but I hope you can take a look at it and let me know what you think: Bill:     Hillary:                                          Mike Huckabee:

GryffindorKrypton (talk) 21:39, April 20, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton

Yeah, I think that timeline for Oklahoma reunification in 2015 and US statehood in 2020 works. Do you think Kentucky would join the US around the same time? 

As for Missouri, SouthWriter granted me the rights to Hannibal, so if you're thinking of Joplin and Cape Girardeau becoming the new Missouri, we could merge Hannibal with them to form the reborn US state of Missouri. 

Thanks so much for the support for my Clinton projects. I'm glad you've enjoyed reading them! I still have a few finishing touches on Bill's article to bring it up to present day, but I'm excited about it. Here's a question that's vital to that, IMO: do you think Hot Springs, Pine Bluff, and the other Arkansas survivor communities would eventually reunite into a new Arkansas and rejoin the USA if Oklahoma and Kentucky do? If so, maybe Bill could play some sort of diplomatic role in making those two things happen? I feel like that could be a nice little crescendo to his article towards the end, being both the final pre-Doomsday governor of AR and later playing a role in it reunifying and regaining US statehood. 

Looking forward to hearing from you, and thanks again! GryffindorKrypton (talk) 01:39, May 12, 2020 (UTC)GryffindorKrypton 

1983 Doomsday

I have involved with the 1983 Doomsday revival that GryffindorKrypton  started. I adopted the  municipal  states of the pacific and updated it was scandal involving the civic right party led  to a revoulation that lead to the municipal states into the republic of Jefferson. I also made comments on GryffindorKrypton Bill Clinton,and George W B ush . He fully agreed with my idea about Clinton and partially agreed with my comments. I also told him that I felt the USA need to be updated to reflected the fact that America had a election in 2016. He agreed with me that the new president would be a democrat but he disagreed with choice of candidate. Any way I am thinking of making a page on post doomsday cinema industry. Since I plan on covering multiple counties industries I feel that the article would be kind of big for one. Do you think you would be willing to cover the asian/oceanin, european, or latin american flim industryGoldwind1 (talk) 12:44, June 18, 2020 (UTC)

I would like to adopt the article -True British Army (1983: Doomsday).

I would like to adopt the True British Army (1983: Doomsday) page to create an ecanomic policy (I'm sure they will have at least some farms, several basic arms factories and a few penal slave labour camps) and to add to both the political and organizational aspects of the TBA.

EoGuy99 did the last edit (a spelling and grammar check) 04:53, September 1, 2016‎

The creators last edits were: 18:26, January 20, 2012‎ Smoggy80 and 18:15, November 27, 2011‎ Fegaxeyl.

The official T.L. guide says "So, if an editor has been missing for three months, another editor can adopt his articles. We ask that the adopting editor make an attempt to contact the missing editor by leaving a message on his or her talk page. If the missing editor does not respond in one week, the adopting editor can safely become the new caretaker of the article in question." [1].

I have asked EoGuy99, Smoggy80 and Fegaxeyl and if they either agree or don't say anything in 2 weeks I will assume temporary authority over it and add some more detail to it.

  • Some of my ideas.
The unofficial TBA mottos and popular war cries were: "Bugger off darkie foreigners!", "No surrender to the IRA!", Put Zion under the flat iron!", "Better dead than red!", "No surrender to the GDR!", and "Death to fagots and Nancy boys!". They well summarized their toxicity racist, homophobic, anti-Communist and anti-Semitic mentally.
The opencast quarrying for ironstone at Ryebury Hill and Sidegate Lane, on land he owned on the south west edge of Finedon, Northants, ended in 1980; but restarted in 1987. It was one of the TBA's most prized assets.
Buckingham is surrounded by sand pits. They were run by the Penal Labour Commission.
The penal 'Terminator Chalk Mine' opened near Princes Risborough in 1992. It was run by the Penal Labour Commission.
Several of the TBA's founders had post atomic-holocaust PTSE and were no longer thinking logical, thus they were so brutal and militaristic after the war.
The lowest of all TBA military units is a locally recruited 5 man "parole unit".
The still anonymous ultimate heads of the Penal Labour Commission and National Security Commission were ranked as "Master Sergeants".
The TBA's homicidal destruction of the March 25th, 2007, Loughborough food riot; mid 2007 to late 2008 Brackley-Daventry-Long Buckby food riots, The early 2009 Towcester farmers' tax strike and the May 25, 2009, blacksmiths' tax protests in Daventry by both a Kettering based occupation Battalion and the numerous local TBA platoons in the protesting localizes.
Thugish policing policy.
Rudimentary local government structures.
Skirmishes with tribes in Oxfordshire and southern Buckinghamshire.
An official oath.
A local news sheet.
User:Todetode :. ~ Under the Hood, Connect to Basic information? ~ Todetode (talk). 20:47, July 1, 2020 (UTC)
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