I'm starting on reviewing your work now... had to do some work on my stuff, lol.

Would it be possible to get your permission to edit the articles in question?

I will be looking over all of them, so I guess it would apply to all, really.

The maps are fine, though the Don Republic will need some work, as that capital, looking at the map, would have been covered in radiation. I've got a couple more sites that I have found that have history with the Don Cossacks and would work instead. But I will only edit with your permission.

Also, if you could hold off asking for objections for graduation, thats what got this in trouble in the first place, that would be great. Like I said, I'll go over all of them.

Lordganon 03:44, July 1, 2010 (UTC)


Lordganon 22:15, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously Ven, you need to quit asking for graduation so fast. You need to wait at least a week after making the article to do that.

Lordganon 12:19, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Flags and CoA

Thanks for the flags and CoA. Now the CoA of Mongolia isn't new, but what about the flags for Manchuria and Uyghuristan? Did you make those? I particulary liked the one for Uyghuristan.--Vladivostok 07:20, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

My Edits

I'll explain my edits here.

For the Kuban article, I've changed the largest city, because it would have been less radiated - but Krasnodar does fit better for the capital, so it should stay there. Added a strike, and made the tsunami part more likely. Also had the industrial district of Krasnodar slightly damaged, wont harm the city itself any. Reworded the rest of the article so that it sounds like the state is possible, and sounds better.

If you added some more post-doomsday events, like maybe contact with Siberia, I'll fix them into the overall scheme. What do you think of how it looks? I'll make the edits.

The Don Republic will will be edited next, hopefully tomorrow, and brought in line with this one.

Lordganon 20:32, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Done. Basic, minor edit. Glad you like it, though. The rest will likely have some sort of feel like it.

You gotta stop asking for graduation so fast, though!

Lordganon 06:52, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Gone over the Don Republic. Changed both the largest city and capital, but have made it so that the city you had it as will be both again in a year or two. Gave a reason for the economic recovery, and added strikes, as well as explaining the damage to the north part of the Don Basin. General rewording like the other article as well.

Others.... in a few days as they were not so pressing. Maybe add some more details to this and Kuban, I'll sort it out a bit if you do.

Also good, though?

Lordganon 08:46, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Any preference which of the other articles I work on first?

Lordganon 22:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Went over the Dagestan article. Had to nuke the capital you've chosen, there seems to be an airbase there. Moved it to Derbent, the major city in the south. Added a better map that shows the strikes and areas of control, and filled in details for the infobox. Cleaned it up in general, and straightened out the history. Lemme know if you think something should be changed.

I've decided to go over them in the order you posted them on the talk page, since I haven't heard from you.

Lordganon 10:25, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Went over the Armenia article after it was graduated. Now it doesn't look like it was off wikipedia, or contain things about destroyed cities ;)

Nothing too major, though looking at things, the little Azerbaijan enclave there'd be independent - Armenia wouldn't let it have the contact with Azerbaijan needed for it to be part of the same government.

Creation of that article and going over Azerbaijan are next.

Lordganon 15:12, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Decided since it was the only between Azer~ and what I'd just gone over, I'd do the Kalmykia one first.

Made it clearer, and even gave ya some Tibet contact, though very little.

As for all of these articles, if you have any more ideas for the post-doomsday histories, please let me know - I'll put them in.

I may be fixing them, but they are still your articles. ;)

Lordganon 06:28, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Azerbaijan now done revising. Looking at things, I've decided to scrap the warfare with Georgia - Azerbaijan is in no shape for it. Changed the capital - that city, while largest, has no history with the area at all - it was 35 years old at the time of Doomsday - the new one does. Also made the establish state later.

Article creation will be next.

Lordganon 15:52, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Created the article I mentioned for ya.

If you could give me things you want in things articles, please do! They need to be expanded post-DD, and while I'll get ya ideas put in and fixed up, I won't get the ideas myself!!!

Just leave'em on my page.

Fixed up Hepburn for ya too. Give me some REALISTIC ideas for trips she could make - only in the med around Italy until 92, expanding slowly thereafter. But most of the globe is an impossibility. Made her live longer too - I figure she'd have died on cancer eventually, but given increased screenings, etc, after DD, she have caught the one that killed her before it got too far.

Lordganon 14:16, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

The WWF is fixed. I'm sorry, but them having the headquarters in Venezuela makes little sense - there would be almost no members there to actually run it, nor any offices that could really support it.

Lordganon 12:39, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed up ya additions to the WWF article.

Went over the Ossetia article too. Nothing major, really just a capital change.

Lordganon 05:50, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Georgia fixed and brought in line with canon. Also have edited the WWF slightly to make mitro happy. Will likely edit Ossetia a bit more too.

Have given up on Pashtunistan, fyi - its just implausible.

Lordganon 10:52, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Central World

I'll make a template for you, and I will make an article when I have the free time. Arstarpool 17:22, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Central World (Participation)

I would be glad but I have lots of works on my own timeline. I am mainly tagging the flags with categories. JorgeGG 02:31, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I would love to help! I'll be a little busy with the Rise of Roses ATL, but I'll try and help the best I can...Smallpox 14:56, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well thank you for asking. Sorry though, I can't do it right now. I'm sure I'll get around to doing a few articles on the nations of Central World though! Eastward Expansion 15:14, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Venezuela, I want to help you on Central World, but I need you to answer me this question: what articles on nations already exist? Fedelede 15:17, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'll help with it, and I'll make the template. - Mister Sheen 15:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
This is the template. Do you want any changes? - Mister Sheen 16:12, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
Well, it's an interesting premise, and I may participate. Though I would like to know: if Germany won in WW1, and had no need to dissolve the monarchy, how did Hitler come to power? Fegaxeyl 17:22, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'll gladly create and article for Central World.Frymon 17:32, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well, what nation would you want done? Frymon 17:40, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Give me time to read through the source materials and I will begin work in my two favourite countires, Ireland and Canada. Frymon 17:43, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I'm working on some stuff with Rise of Roses, but I'll look into it at some point. Kareljanis 20:30, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I will help you with your TL, if you want to help me with one of mine: either French Trafalgar, British Waterloo or Choose Your Own Alternate History!, and it would be greatly appreciated. What would you like me to start on? Tbguy1992 19:45, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sure, just give me a list of important articles you need writen, in the case that you help me by supporting the Kingdom of Macedonia article I'm writing in any way possible. Ownerzmcown 00:00, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hi Venezuela. Well, if i can help, i could create an article about Chile. Greetings --Katholico 22:46, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
De nada Vene. Te iba a escribir en español, pero como estamos en una wikia inglesa no lo hice xD Jeje Bueno, asi esta mejor ya me ingles no es muy bueno :P Quizas lo escriba en un rato, es que estoy traduciendo un asunto relacionado a Rise of Roses para poder ver si puedo escribir un articulo alli tambien. En todo caso, por ahora solo escribiria lo general, ya que debo leer mas a fondo tu historia para saber que tipo de cambios le traeria a Chile. Saludos --Katholico 23:02, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'll give it a shot when I've got the time.

Lordganon 22:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Venezuela, America Latina tiene alguna participación en WW2? En nuestra OTL la mayoria fue neutral o declaro la guerra al Eje casi al final. En Central World es igual o puede haber estallado conflictos? (ejemplo: Brasil, Chile vs Argentina Paraguay?) --Katholico 02:02, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, perfecto, es que pense que los victorias del Eje (mas aun si tu dices que el D-Day fracaso) podrian haber llevado a que los gobiernos mas cercanos al Axis en America (y que en OTL apoyaron a los aliados por la influencia de EEUU) se decidieran a entrar en la guerra de su lado. Saludos --Katholico 03:23, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
Hice la timeline como vi que todavia no la habias creado; Venezuela, despues voy crear la pagina sobre la WW1, pero necesito saber cual es el POD de la historia. y otra cosa, la Gran Depresión tambien ocurre, no? Saludos --Katholico 20:09, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Your "Community" Project

Hey Vene, I need to talk to you about something, and I'm being honest, don't think I'm being a jerk because I don't like you or anything.

No offense, but I've read through Central World and it's not going to be the new "community" project. Almost everything was written by you. All the storyline, nations, and everything else. You just want people to expand on it, and make it better for you.

I am sorry that you may not understand a lot of English and might not know how to sense attitude in what people have written above, but people aren't really thrilled about Central World. People have gotten that way over Rise of Roses, Wasteland Europe, and 1983: Doomsday, but it's not going to happen with Central World. Arstarpool 23:35, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Don't talk to me like that! I mean it! You cheat on polls, have your "friends" like DAFG threaten me, try to get every article graduated, even implausible ones, and you spam!!! Vete al carajo! Arstarpool 00:13, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Wasteland Europe

Hey, if you can, could you help me out with Wasteland Europe? Feel free to expand it, because it is an open timeline afterall. Arstarpool 21:58, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Central World

Sure, I'll take a look at them. BoredMatt 21:57, July 17, 2010 (UTC)


Venezuela, just a quick note:

No tienes que hablar conmigo en ingles. Yo entiendo espanol perfectamente.

La cosa es, sé uno pocos venezolanos, y han dicho lo mismo. Créame, su "dictador" Hugo Chávez es un enemigo a nosotros los americanos, cubanos y costarricenses, y hace quedar mal a su país. Los colombianos están empezando a cortar todos los lazos con Venezuela, también. No era mi intención ofenderle, pero he estado una persona grosera recientemente. Por favor, entienda eso.

Pero recuerda que todavía hay lugares muy agradables en su país. Sólo recuerda que un día, el hijo de puta comemierda Chávez va a morir, y su país será libre. Simplemente trata de recordar eso.Arstarpool

Proposal template

What do you mean? - Mister Sheen 22:28, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

The link will work when someone creates the talk page for the article. - Mister Sheen 22:42, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Central world

yes i did create the seal of alaska i modified the real seal on paint Migue235 13:25, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


I think I might to a few articles on Central World....

Eastward Expansion 17:06, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


I have a question for you. Being Venezuelan, do you like Chavez? Eastward Expansion 17:06, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Wow. It sounds terrible in Venezuela. I'm glad you can talk freely here, because its impossible to trace who says what on the internet. I know a Venezuela guy (though he was born in India) that is fleeing the country. He says that he had his car stolen, and was nearly shot twice, and that now he has to leave the country for good. I'm sorry that you have to live with Chavez in control. Eastward Expansion 19:57, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Remember what I said, Vene, the fucker will die sooner or later :D Arstarpool 22:40, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Central World

I have seen this timeline around, I had no idea you were a part of it. --NuclearVacuum 17:34, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Central World

I have an idea, as you know Wallonia has mostly a French, German population. But what if a far right french general exile took power and executed the local goverment while also gaining french locals support? Germany would have to send troops and a civil war would take place in the region. This war would last from 1936 to 1939; Its kind of like the Spanish Civil War except in a diffrent region. What do you think of this? Duchland 20:19, July 19, 2010 (UTC)Duchland


agarre el escudo actual
Alaska seal n4780
y luego en paint lo modifique.
Coat-of-arms Free State Of Alaska

Al cielo lo pinte de azul oscuro y le puse las estrellas de la bandera y la luna.

las montañas las deje igual

la casa no la cambie pero le agregue el humo saliendo por la chimenea

Al lago lo pinte de azul y le quite los barcos (no se veian muy bien en contraste con el agua oscura, si no los ubiera dejado) tambien modifique la costa tambien puse el reflejo de la luna

en la parte de enfrente quite el granjero y todo eso y puse un bosque de pinos

el oso y el salmon los agarre por separado en google y los uni

puse como una hoja de laurel y una rama de pino con dos piñas

y le puse free state of alaskaMigue235 21:09, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

por cierto me van a poner oficialmente o voy a ser un proposal para siempre

Migue235 21:09, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

ok gracias

q mas puedo crear???

Migue235 21:24, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Como qMigue235 21:26, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

porcierto alska es parte de la geacop y hawaii???

y eso q significa???Migue235 21:32, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

voy a crear a venezuela qien sera el presidente???Migue235 21:56, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


VENEZUELA, ¿cómo es mi español? Me pregunto ...

Eso es mejor de lo que pensaba ...

Eastward Expansion 22:25, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


Hola, Vene, me estaba preguntando si por favor me podias traducir al ingles las cosas que estoy escribiendo para mi articulo sobre Chile?. Avisame y Gracias :). --Katholico 05:04, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

No te preocupes, todo se arregla :) OK, ademas de Mexico, son los paises beligerantes son los mismos que en OTL, no? y Venezuela, podrias pasarme al ingles esto, por favor? Digo, sin no es problema.... Es para mi articulo. Tomate tu tiempo y gracias!! Saludos --Katholico 22:31, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
En este régimen, el Congreso Nacional domino la política nacional, mientras el Presidente fue una figura prácticamente decorativa, sin autoridad y supeditado a la decisión de las mayorías parlamentarias.

Los partidos se agruparon en dos grandes agrupaciones políticas: la Coalición, conformada por el Partido Conservador más grupos liberales, y la Alianza Liberal, que incluía a grupos liberales y al Partido Radical. Hacia fines del período 1910 empiezan a tener importancia el Partido Obrero Socialista y su asociación con el movimiento obrero.

En esta época, existían tres grupos sociales fuertemente marcados, la oligarquía, la clase media y los sectores populares.

Durante estos años, el progreso del país continuó debido a la riqueza que producía la minería del salitre, lo que permitió la construcción de algunas obras como el Ferrocarril Trasandino y el Museo Nacional de Bellas Artes, en conmemoración del Centenario de la Independencia. Sin embargo, la economía nacional debió sobreponerse al destructor terremoto que asoló al puerto de Valparaíso, el 16 de agosto de 1906.

Durante la primera guerra mundial, el país era gobernado por el Presidente Luis Sanfuentes, quien decide mantenerse la neutralidad, pese a las históricas relaciones que Chile mantiene tanto con Alemania como con Gran Bretaña.

Tras la invención del salitre sintético durante la Gran Guerra, la economía chilena experimento un progresivo descenso hasta fines de los años 30.

En 1920, es elegido Presidente Arturo Alessandri Palma. Alessandri propone una serie de reformas políticas y sociales para arreglar de una vez la situación del país, pero el Congreso se opone fuertemente. El descontento por el rechazo a las reformas se manifestó en el llamado Ruido de sables de 1924, realizado por la joven oficialidad del ejército y considerado como una amenaza de Golpe de Estado. El Congreso aprueba las leyes, pero los militares no vuelven a sus labores propias. Ante esta situación, Alessandri siente que su poder ha sido sobrepasado y presenta su renuncia al Congreso, partiendo a un “exilio voluntario” el 10 de septiembre de 1924.

Entre 1924-1925 el poder estuvo en manos de dos juntas de gobiernos, conformadas por los militares. El 11 de Septiembre de 1924 fue disuelto el Congreso Nacional. Sin embargo, al final los militares no lograron controlar la situación, y el 23 de enero de 1925 Alessandri regresa para terminar de cumplir su mandato.

Alessandri logra crear el Banco Central de Chile y que se apruebe en un plebiscito una nueva Constitución, que es promulgada el 18 de septiembre de 1925. Con esta Constitución, el poder vuelve a ser ejercido efectivamente por el Presidente de la República, dando fin al gobierno parlamentario, y estableciendo un régimen presidencial.

Tras la victoria del presidencialismo con la nueva Constitución de 1925, el Presidente Alessandri propuso lanzar una candidatura única para las elecciones de ese año, y de ese modo dejar atrás la crisis política del país. Los partidos eligen a Luis Barros Borgoño como candidato, quien luego es electo Presidente, asumiendo el 23 de diciembre de 1925.

En al ámbito exterior, se continua con las negociaciones de Chile con Perú acerca del territorio de Tacna y Arica. Sin embargo, el fracaso de los arbitrajes lleva a ambos países a entran en guerra en 1928. El conflicto se prolonga por más de tres años, resultando vencedor Chile. Tacna queda definitivamente bajo control chileno.

Tras el fin de la guerra, los efectos de la Gran Depresión alcanzaron al país. Sin embargo, el empuje industrial y las reparaciones monetarias como consecuencia de la guerra, permitieron al segundo gobierno del Presidente Arturo Alessandri (elegido en 1930) resistir la crisis y continuar el desarrollo del país.

Eso de arriba Vene, estaba intentando una cosa para que no ocupara tanto espacio. --Katholico 22:50, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Muchas gracias Vene!!! No hay problema, estab pensando en empezar los articulos de Peru, Argentina y España despues. Saludos --Katholico 23:21, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
Bueno, Venezuela, acepto el ofrecimiento :) Solo necesitaria que me digas que otras ideas GENERALES piensas que tiene Central World, para si poder resolver cualquier inquietud en caso de ser consultado. Ejemplo: El Socialismo/Comunismo desaparece tras l caida de la URSS? Saludos y gracias! --Katholico 02:02, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
Puedo hacer algunos de esos articulos, como el de la Organization of Nat. Eso si, sera mañana ya que ahora debo irme. Yo creo que si deberia haber guerra contra el terror, si la EC extiende sus dominacion hacia los paises arabes para asegurar el control del petroleo. Yo pensaba crear un articulo sobre una union en defensa de la democracia para sudamerica creada tras las guerra, pero dado que USA mantendra fuertemente dictadores, mejor dejo su creacion para fines del siglo XX. Antes de irme te pregunto, puede haber guerras en america durante la guerra fria? (como las Malvinas, la crisis del beagle, o guerras civiles) Saludos y nos vemos mañana!! :) --Katholico 02:54, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
Guerras civiles como la de El Salvador, pero tambien lo preguntaba por si se inventa alguna guerra en otro pais. Yo esperaba que organizacion pro-democracia en America fuera mas FUERTE y EFICIENTE que la OEA de OTL, por lo que primero las dictaduras y gobiernos militares proamericanistas instauradas por EEUU deberian caer. Por otro lado, para una Alianza Militar tipo OTAN que te parece la Alianza de Defensa Americana? Saludos --Katholico 03:23, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Venezuela, ahora voy a colocar lo ultimo que he creado sobre la historia de Chile (lo traduje ayudandome en un traductor, te agradeceria si arreglas lo que esta mal escrito), y bueno, hay algunas ideas que me gustaria revisaras, como por ejemplo la crisis hegemonica japonesa que es aprovechada por Chile para extender influencias en Oceania y el Sudeste Asiatico. Espero tu opinion de aquellas ideas. Saludos y desde ya gracias! --Katholico 04:52, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
Venezuela, disculpa, sucede algo? es que aun no me has respondido. --Katholico 02:02, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

American Defense Alliance

Venezuela, cree el articulo sobre la Alianza de Defensa Americana, pero hay varios puntos por resolver, incluyendo cuando fue creado, donde tiene su sede, ademas de que si incluye a toda America o no (Mexico lucho en la WW1 junto a Alemania, pero en la WW2?)... y si hasta hoy existiria. Respondeme cuando puedas. Saludos --Katholico 03:13, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Georgia y sus paises

Hola Vene. Como usted y Fedelede casi nunca estan en 1983: Doomsday, puedo markar Mingrelia y los otros obsolete para que podemos graduar a Georgia mas rapi? Arstarpool 22:40, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


This is sort of an IM thing that Smallpox and Vegas found, I checked it out and it's pretty cool.

Go to

write your nickname

type "wikia_ah" (remove quotation marks) in the channel box

enter, and party.

Pass it on.

BoredMatt 14:27, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

PS me and EE found the layout a bit confusing, you type in the text bar at the bottom of the screen.

Response to earlier message

Ah, yes. I have received your message.

Unfortunately, I am poorly experienced in the field of Wiki, and I am afraid that I would be of no use in your project.

Thank you for the offer, but I think that I will stick with my own projects and the timeline Superpowers.

Rcox1995 21:33, July 20, 2010 (UTC)rcox1995</div>

Georgia, Ossetia, y Mingrelia

Hola Vene. Voy a markar a Mingrelia y todo los otros como "obsolete", ok? Es la unica forma a graduar Georgia. Arstarpool 22:40, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


Hi, I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline your request. I however offer my encouragement for you and your team to work on this timeline. I'm sure you'll accomplish a lot.

Buena Suerte =D Red VS Blue 01:34, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Zack's Response

Hold your horses Ven! I love the enthusiasm but I need to read the TL first. I do appreciate the offer though & once I read it I'll see what I can do. --GOPZACK 02:35, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Umm...I am trying to write an article about the Christian Republic of Assyria and I cant find its location on your map. Duchland 15:53, July 21, 2010 (UTC)Duchland

1983: Doomsday

Are you still going to work on 1983: Doomsday? It is the most popular timeline again, and you might want to enjoy finishing your countries.

Also, Mingrelia and the Mingrelia Independence War and all other Georgia Causcaus countries are obsolete now, so edit your userpage. Arstarpool 22:28, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


If you read my response,

You see my reasons for myself not being a vandal. Really? Really, Vene? What "Stupid Things" did I add? I'm slightly annoyed...

Anyway, are there any countries in Central World that you want me to do? Maybe the Russian Far East ones if I knew their names...


Eastward Expansion 01:48, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Far East....

Great! I'll start articles for those nations now...

Eastward Expansion 13:29, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Is it ok if I edit the Central World page to add Buryatia as a proposal?

And add Buryatia to the list of nations?

Eastward Expansion 13:47, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


I couldn't figure out how to put the box around Buryatia. Could you tell me how you did it?Eastward Expansion 16:22, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the nations page, there seems to be boxes around each flag and nation name.Eastward Expansion 16:25, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Si todavía no entienden, podemos tener el traductor que trató de matarme traducir ...

Eastward Expansion 16:27, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Eastward Expansion 16:39, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Colombia-Venezuela Relations

You might find this interesting. If you scroll to the bottom of the page, you will see that a war is soon to break out, and if that does happen, I will be on Colombia's side. Good luck and God bless you.–Venezuela_relations Arstarpool 03:16, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Ask on the talk page if anybody has objections. If nobody says anything for 5 days than graduate it. Arstarpool 16:57, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Adygea and Chechnia

Most of Adygea is under the control of the Kubans, actually. No point making a republic for them, then.

A Republic for Kabardino-Balkaria is possible, though - but that would be the last one that could exist in the region. And, as it is today, the area at the time had only the two republics, not three - the Karbards and Balkars have been in one republic since the system was set up, and have good enough relations for it to stay that way.

A full third of the population of Tartarstan lives in the capital of Kazan - which would have been nuked on DD, for sure. I'd leave that one alone, for that reason, as well as it being too close to Siberia - the Ural territory has existed since 1995, and any states just outside of it would have been taken long ago.

The capital of Chuvasia looks to have been a target too, in my mind, so I wouldn't even go there either.

But, the other two there would be fine.

As for Chechnya, I'll get to it eventually. The stuff on the proposal page is a higher priority atm.

And Please, GIVE ME IDEAS OF WHAT YA WANT ADDED TO THE HISTORIES!!!! lol Anything you can think of - it is makes sense at all I'll adjust it and put it in.

Lordganon 06:48, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Georgia on the WCRB

As the caretaker of Georgia, you do not have my permission to have a LoN command there. I kicked you out of the Georgia article, anyways. Arstarpool 01:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thats a lie. Actually according to the history of the article I contributed 8 times to it.

Remove the Republic of Georgia from your articles because it will be deleted soon since it is a copy of an existing article, a direct violation of the QSS and QAA.

Arstarpool 17:52, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

No matter what you say, it IS A COPY. THERE CANNOT BE TWO GEORGIAS. Mine came first, and even if you added every word to the new one it would still be deleted because there can not be two articles on the same place and the original must always stay.

I will make a deal with you: You delete the Republic of Georgia and I will leave Dagestan.

Until the dispute is solved neither the Republic of Georgia or the Federation of Georgia may be edited. The next time you touch either one there will be trouble. 18:06, July 29, 2010 (UTC)


It seems you are having quite the dispute with Arstarpool. I would request that you do not blank his articles do not delete things off of his user page and do not spam up the place with duplicate articles. With that said I would like to hear your side of the story, but damaging other articles does not help your case. I would like to reach a reasonable solution so please respond sooner rather then later. --GOPZACK 17:43, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

I've reviewed what this whole dispute is about and technically you are at fault however Arstarpool's handling of the situation leaves a lot to be desired. If you guys cannot work this out yourselves I'll intervene as needed. --GOPZACK 21:33, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Fine, Vene. I will return you to the Georgia project but only if you delete/hide that rude message on Mitro's page. Really, man, a lot of that was not true and rude. 03:31, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Future Map

Yes, I did check out the map and I thought it was great. I like all the new countries

As far as the book goes...How did you know that?

I was going to have the blog go on (to new blog posts) and slowly explain that. In the Next post, I'll explain why in the book, China balkanizes.

Also, please don't give it away to others, because I'm hoping it will be a surprise.

Eastward Expansion 00:14, July 30, 2010 (UTC)


Eastward Expansion 00:17, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

hola vene, pregunta¿como se hace una imagen o mapa como el tuyo ? como pintas con una bandera un espacio definido? con que programas? con que herramientas? pregunta seria, no se de verdad explicame please, gracias--Fero 05:31, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Banderas

Por supuesto! Pero me gustaría diseñar a mí las banderas de las Repúblicas Socialistas de Cataluña, Baleares y Valencia. Gracias por tu interés! --M92 09:29, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

European Renaissance

Por que la pagina esta asi? Quien iso esto, alguin borro la pagina y comenzo de nuevo, quien y por queMigue235 15:27, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Conectate en la IRC AHORAMigue235 15:42, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

pUEDES SER MIEMBRO DEL STAFFMigue235 15:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Singapore and Malaya

Hi VENEZUELA! Sorry for the late reply. I'm glad that you enjoyed Vegetarian World! And I think that your Central World is coming along really well, too! It's interesting how Fascism won, but later fell much like Communism.

Anyway, I might be able to do some work with Singapore and Malaya. In fact, I might write a bit soon. But of course, don't hold them for me. I'm notorious for leaving this site for weeks at a time. I read that in WWII, like in OTL, Japan invaded Malaya and Singapore. However, unlike Taiwan, they seem to be independent now. However, I wasn't able to find out any more information. So my guess is that they were invaded by Japan and then were either run as puppets, or gained independence from Japan somehow. So, I might write a bit, and feel of course add to it or totally discard it if you don't like it. I think that most people might not get around to these countries, so at least you might have a bit to go with for now. Again, thanks for your nice comments. --Riction 16:08, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I wrote an article about Singapore. Check it out and see if you like it. --Riction 17:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

1962: First Strike

Fine by me. Mitro 03:00, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Balkanized North America

Right now, I'm once again interested in your Tl, Balkanized North America. If you check out, the Talk Page I've listed several places where your can find information that might help you. Eastward Expansion 16:41, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Balkanized Russia

It sounds like an interesting idea Vene, and I'd like to help, it's just that I have a slow internet connection at the moment as I'm currenty at the seaside and am not on my regular connection. Thus, I'll help when I return to Zagreb, which will be by the end of August.--Vladivostok 16:16, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ancient War on Terror

Now, now, Vene, what's this all about? BoredMatt 20:02, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Also, deleting my arguements isn't going to make me stop arguing. If anything, it's gonna do the exact opposite. BoredMatt 20:15, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


Thanks, I'm glad you like Neutral France. I've seen your new timeline and I think its coming along quite well!

Eastward Expansion 18:39, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

And Broke into Pieces, My Russia

I have actually been looking at it, and I'm very interested in the way it is going! However, currently I'm focusing on CYOAH (thanks for your contributions, by the way!) and my primary AltHist, French Trafalgar, British Waterloo at the moment, so I won't be adding any new articles to ABIPMR (I love acronyms!) anytime soon. I would also like to see how the story develops as well, because I really don't feel like barging in and writing things that may contradict the TL, plus also my utter ignorance of Russian ethnic groupings.

I wish you all the luck in the world on your new project, and I hope you will find more people who will help you!

P.S.: How are you still doing on Central World? And, if you have the time, could you please check out my major project, FTBW? The links above to make it easier to get their! Tbguy1992 05:01, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like you have a good start. To be honest, the history of Russia and its ethnic groups is hardly my strong suit, but I think it looks pretty reasonable. Don't understand why Cornwall and Scotland broke from Britain though if the British still won WWI. KingSweden 18:37, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


Hey! My dad just went to Ehden last year for a wedding (and for business). BoredMatt 19:26, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Haha, he never expected to see a pine forest!! He got to see this play that was sorta making fun of the Hezbollah, but the director got pulled offstage and beaten after the play was over. And I've been to Beirut before, great food, and just a generally great place to live!

Err, yea that's what I meant. BoredMatt 20:26, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Cold War Map Game

Hey, I've recently restarted the map game Cold War! (Map Game) and say that you were one of the players, I would like you to start playing again and bring life back to this awesome map game Ownerzmcown 17:43, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


I turned it into a proposal because Yank just recently changed the article to give Estonia a larger population and more territory without any explanation. Estonia was graduated as being smaller and we just don't change that so quickly without an explanation. Until I get it I am leaving it as a proposal. It is all in the Editorial Guidelines. Mitro 21:40, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

1983's Greece

I have a few ideas for the flags, but it'll be hard to convey a few of said ideas to you, so you'll have a lot of freedom to design what you think. You can ask me about symbolism, colours, etc, that Greeks might play on of course.

And sorry but I've already picked up a successor to take the reins of the Federation of Greece; you're willing to join me as a co-caretaker though, along with BoredMatt and Oerwinde and whoever else accepts.

I'll be creating a blog for all of us to put our ideas, you can post them there and we can talk it out from there. The Republic of the Holy Mountain is basically a given, I talked about how the Moreos was formed, and I used to have a narrative on the formation on the Delian League (the nation-state that formed the Confederation and the bleeding-heart of the group), but it's long since been deleted so it's up for discussion. Mr.Xeight 03:57, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I really don't know, I haven't been following up on current events in 1983:Doomsday so I had no idea Greece went on an annexing-spree in Algeria until now; defer that question to one of the current co-caretakers who actually has been following 1983:Doomsday in the last few months. Mr.Xeight 04:03, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I don't even remember how to make a blog, thus I am in no-rush to create one; like I said, alternate history is not my top-priority. Mr.Xeight 04:15, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'll do it, it's okay; but if you could so kind as to tell me how to create a blog I'd be most appreciative. And I have to warn you; some of yours flags might not be chosen as the official flags for the nation, don't get upset. Mr.Xeight 04:23, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Venezuela, but there is absolutely no way that a Greek Federation would allow a Muslim-influence flag and one that was the flag for a Turkish republic claimed in the '20s. Besides, the Constantinople territory has less than a hundred people, nothing but soldiers, excavators looking for anything that survived, and priests. Mr.Xeight 05:01, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

The blog's up for you now, I'm getting tired but I'll wait to see what you have in store. And as for Thrace's flag, I think it'll probably be Byzantine-influenced, I'll see if I can design that one. As for Egypt having a Coptic flag, I don't think that could work-if the Greeks show favour to the Copts, that'll royally piss off the majority-Arab mandate. Perhaps making a tri-coloured flag, one strip representing the Arabs, one the Copts, and one for the Greeks in the middle? So Green for the Arabs, Blue for the Copts, and Red or White for the Greeks? Mr.Xeight

It seems that you're more interested in Greece's North African Mandates; would you care to write articles on the Three Mandates? The Nile Delta and Suez Canal were mandated to Greec from the League of Nations so that the two very valuable stretches of land would be in the hands of a loyal, League of Nations Members, and the Moreos just colonized Libya in order to regain land that used to be Greek twice in history; once during the Roman and Byzantine Periods, and before that when Peloponnesian colonists moved there during the Golden Age of Ancient Greece. Other than that, you can do whatever you want with them within reason. Mr.Xeight 14:31, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oh well jeez, I didn't even realize the LoN is that young! I suppose we'll change the date of the acquisition of the Suez to 2008, and in 2008 the LoN gives its blessing to Greece to hold onto its African parts instead of granting it to them. Mr.Xeight 17:59, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yep, you're good to go, although would you be able to give me a quick preview of things to come for Greek Africa? I'm rather curious. And you don't directly contradict anything on the old pages, do you, or at least to the best of your knowledge? Not a big problem, as it can be changed (and indeed, some things will need to change), I'm just wondering. If you would like to change anything old, feel free to ask. Mr.Xeight 18:07, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah that's sound good. Mr.Xeight 18:32, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I like what you've written so far, and I'll be going over it for punctuation issues (not to worry, until I was four English wasn't my first language either). I'd also like to ask you if instead of a picture of Mosques in New Cairo we highlight the Christian aspect of the city and replace the picture with a picture of a new cathedral for the Patriarchate of Alexandria. Speaking of a new Patriarch, since the Coptic Orthodox Church really started to break down due to harsh Muslim-rule, perhaps when the Greeks get there, the Coptic Orthodox Church could undergo a renaissance period and go into communion with the GOC. Mr.Xeight 20:12, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'm looking for a picture of the Cathedral of the Patriarch of Alexandria on all pages pertaining to the Patriarchate on Wikipedia, but no such luck so far. Basically what I picturing was the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and the Coptic Orthodox Church combine. Now theologically the new Patriarchate would be Eastern-Orthodox, but its Patriarch would be a native Copt and the majority of the parishioners would be Coptic, although immigrant Greeks and Arab converts (remember, Greece owns part of Libya and Egypt, it can send as many missionaries as it wants without fear of said missionaries being expelled or killed). I decided on going with a Coptic-Patriarch since well, how many bishops can Greece send away when there have been so many deaths already? I have to go finish some homework, so would you mind looking for a picture of the Cathedral of the Patriarch of Alexandria? Mr.Xeight 01:18, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I must say, Venezuela, you're quite the hard-worker, and you have good ideas, too! Frankly, you're a Godsend (along with the others) and for that I thank you! I'll write up the captions for the acthedral in the morning, but I have to be leaving now to get to bed, I'll be waking up in six hours to row. Mr.Xeight 03:39, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I have to think about what exactly is going to go with the union of the Coptic and Greek Orthodox churches of Alexandria; there can be a lot of repercussions for that. You mention the Islamic government of Egypt caused the Copts to "wither way"-does that mean that they;re nearly extinct or simply went into hiding? If it's the former, then they might be accepted into the newly united Patriarchate; if the latter, well then the two might remain seperate but the cathedral can be a joint house of worship. I think that the other Churches of Oriental Orthodoxy will be realing from any said union, and not all Coptic-Christians will join the new church. Plus there's the difference in theologies, of which there's a ton of. I'm having second thoughts, but that doesn't mean I've given up on it yet.

Oh, and your first picture, of the circular church, the Frank Lloyd Wright church in Wisconsin, perhaps we can touch that up and have a photo-shop wizard put the background of downtown Alexandria behind the church? I mean we don't have to go with what the original church looked like, and a circular church, while weird to an Eastern Orthodox Christian, my not necessarily be weird to a post-apocalyptic, Oriental Orthodox Christian. I'll have to look into it.

Mr.Xeight 04:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hey Vene

Hi, I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind reading my primary althist, French Trafalgar, British Waterloo, and give me any feedback, comments or ideas, as I have hit a writers block, and I need some new ideas to try to move the story along.

Thanks! Tbguy1992 03:59, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

1983: Doomsday

Vene, estoy pensando en volver a 1983: Doomsday, pero no estoy seguro de en que campo o como escribir. Que crees? Fedelede 01:08, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Estaba pensando en eso y en los Balcanes. Fedelede 01:15, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

History of Venezuela

Ven, you need to stop removing the proposal template for History of Venezuela (1983: Doomsday). This article never went through the graduation process, you need to do that. This is the last time I am telling you that. Mitro 14:54, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

East Sudan

South Sudan only broke of from Sudan due to the reintroduction of Islamic law, they were quite happy to be part of Sudan before that. The South Sudanese government has to be very moderate anyway as South Sudan also has a large Muslim populationVegas adict 20:27, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

FIFA/Europa Games logos

Excellent work, VENEZUELA! Thanks for taking the time to work on them! BrianD 00:01, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Logos & Flags

Hey Vene, nice work with the logos you've created lately! Really nice stuff. And since I remembered you did well with the flags you created for some Siberian republics, would you like to make a flag, or perhaps a CoA for the Muslim Liberation Army? Something having to do with the religion of course, as they are militants and all, some symbol that would describe them? If you are interested, just let me know.--Vladivostok 18:17, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

That sounds great, thank you. Oh, and this is just a suggestion, have you by any chance played Command & Conquer: Generals? As the Muslim Liberation Army was inspired by the Global Liberation Army, one of the factions in the game, they had a specific logo of their own. Could you perhaps take a few elements from that when your in the process of making the flag or logo?--Vladivostok 18:31, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
Very sinister in appearance, I like it a lot. Thank you for the help, I appreciate it.--Vladivostok 18:55, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Y Central World?

File:A.D.A. Flag.PNG

Hola Venezuela, sigues inventado algo nueva para la historia? Es que hace tiempo no te veo editando en ella. Habia creado algunos articulos como el del referendum en Oceania, y ademas le hice una bandera a Alianza militar en america, pero queria saber tu opinion y si tienes algo mas pensado. Saludos --Katholico 20:59, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Entiendo. Bueno, en cuanto puedas das una mirada a Central World y me cuentas que opinas y que cosa nueva se te ocurre. Yo seguire expandiendo algunos de los articulos para que pasen a formar parte del canon. Gracias y Saludos. --Katholico 22:40, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Vene, como sacaste la plantilla, entonces Chile y Peru forman parte del canon, no? Saludos --Katholico 04:09, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Que bien, gracias, mis primeros dos articulos que forman parte del canon! :) Vene, te iba pedir puede modificar el mapamundi de CW (yo no se como modificarlo la verdad :( ) en sudamerica para mostrar los cambios a raiz de las guerras que Chile tiene con Peru y Argentina, y en las que estoy trabajando. Saludos --Katholico 06:07, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Gracias! Su articulo esta muy bueno, contiene los principales items, salvo gobierno y politicas que es un tema para idear con mas tiempo. El desarrollo que la da a cultura me impresiona mucho. Sobre Oceania, me gustaria saber cuales son las nuevas naciones formadas para ver si puedo tomar algunas para acercarla a la influecia de Chile. Una pregunta, Malvinas esta bajo control austrohungaro, no? Saludos --Katholico 06:28, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Perdón, queria decir que tu le das un especial enfasis a la cultura en tus articulos. Generalmente, la cultura queda relegada a un ultimo lugar, cuando ya se ha escrito toda la historia de un pais, su gobierno, su economia, etc. En tu caso, lo primero que escribes es la historia de alemania y sobre su cultura y vegetación. Eso me llama mucho la ateción. Espero haberme dado entender mejor. Saludos! --Katholico 06:44, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


I'm going to work on the basic set up with Vlad but once thats done i'd appreciate your help with the various statesVegas adict 21:27, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

South of Moscow but north of the CaucasusVegas adict 21:30, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Good to have you aboard Ven. Although a classic Russian flag would probably be the way to go for this state, maybe you could see to something a bit different in the visuals department. Oh, and on a side note, the Socialist International could use a nice new logo if your up for it.--Vladivostok 21:40, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

That will probabley be one of the areas includedVegas adict 21:42, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Hey Vene, I've created a possible page for our new Russian state, called the Russian Democratic Confederacy. I've named it like that because Moscow was obliterated and naming it Muscovy would be a bit confusing. We can discuss the nation, and its name on that page. Feel free to use your artistic skills to good use with a CoA and stuff like that.--Vladivostok 09:52, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
I'v added some of the names for the various states, if you want to add more or expand on the ones allready there please go aheadVegas adict 10:54, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Your article

Why not work on it now and then ask for it to be graduated? Mitro 02:53, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Why are you so quick to graduate your article? You just created it today. Let people review it. Give it at least 12 hours. Mitro 03:41, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Wars (1983: Doomsday)

Sorry about that. I only meant to move Albania to the right location, I did not mean to delete anything. It was an accident. Mitro 20:15, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ethnic groups in Socialist Siberia

Thank you for adding that to the page, I totally forgot about that article.--Vladivostok 18:24, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


Alright Vene, since you are new to this, I won't explode at you. Firstly, and I cannot stress this enough to everyone, any and every CYOAH page you create must have a previous button. Without the previous button, the whole story falls apart, and, with the ever-growing number of pages in the continuity, it is not an easy task to track it down and slap previous button on it.

However, there was no hunting required, for, it seems you have altered the main page. That is something you do not do. Only Tbguy, Azecreth, and I should be editing that page, and I've only grammar-Nazi'd it thus far. If we need your help we will come to you. I don't want this to sound mean, you are not punished, you did not know. This is just for future reference. You may, however, create a new page anywhere else in the CYOAH universe, and you may visit my blog for the details on pages that are needed, and a quick tutorial on how to make high-quality pages in CYOAH.

Goodbye, and good luck.

Jazon Naparleon 01:16, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


Sorry it took so long to respond, I have been catching up with a lot of work. First, if you want to make a template you are going to have to be a lot more specific. What is the purpose of this template you are trying to make? Also you might want to check Alternative History:Templates to see if what you want already exists.

Second, sorry Ven but I am not interested in working on the Central World TL. You will have to find someone else. Mitro 19:17, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ven you don't need to say please everytime you message me. I'll respond to your message as soon as I can. So do you mean a template like this:

Well the best thing to do is go to Template:1983: Doomsday and look at the code there. You can use that as an outline when making your template, plus you can change the colors if you want. To see the full list of colors available go here. Feel free to experiment by looking at other templates for ideas. Also remember when creating your template to add "Template:" to the beginning of the name. Mitro 21:51, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Like I said above click on Template:1983: Doomsday and click on "Edit this page". That will bring up the code. Mitro 22:03, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Noticias y Plantillas

OK Vene, no te preocupues, estare pendiente del Central News. Que tengas un muy buen viaje!! Saludos PD: Antes de que se me olvide, hay que crear tambien la plantilla para enlaces simples correspondiente a la historia. Como la abreviación CW ya esta usada, pensaba que usaramos esta: [[{{{1}}} (Central World)|{{{1}}}]]. --Katholico 19:49, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Si vi el articulo, agregaste nuevos e interesantes items para desarrollar como la carrera espacial y una crisis de los misiles similar a lo de Cuba. Genial! :D Lo que si, la parte de la seccion sobre la Sengunda Guerra, me parece que hay unos errores, ya que sale sobre las destruccion de japon :S. Esta bien eso? Saludos --Katholico 20:09, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ah ahora entiendo, Japon se salvo de casi perder la guerra de no ser por las bombas alemanas que forzaron a EEUU a rendirse ante TODAS las fuerzas del Eje. Ya veo a los alemanes durante la Guerra Fria enrostrandole a las Japoneses eso xD Jajaja.... Em, acabo de ver otra cosa, dice que USA tiene una base en Okinawa? Eso si creo que no deberia haber ocurrido si USA perdio la guerra y siguio como enemigo de Japon en la guerra fria. :) Saludos --Katholico 20:23, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Gracias por el texto Vene! Ahora mismo lo estoy preparando para agregarlo a Peru :). Ah, te queria decir que vieras los demas articulos para que, antes de irte, me avisaras que si hay algo urgente por hacer y si tienes alguna otra idea que yo deba saber, para seguir expandiendo los otros articulos. Saludos --Katholico 02:05, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

OK! Estoy en ello. Vene, Reino Unido esta en una alguna alianza militar? --Katholico 05:11, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Cambios :D

Hola Vene, espero estes bien! :) WOW, que cambios se vienen! Me gusto la idea! Eso de Austria hungria, me da ideas sobre las Islas Malvinas (Independencia o guerra con algun sudamericano por las islas, ya veremos). OK, espare a que regreses para ver las novedades :) Saludos --Katholico 02:11, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

OK, Entendido Vene, Te veo despues entonces, que estes bien :D --Katholico 18:03, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Fronteras E - P - C
Vene, casi lo olvido. Hay otros cambios territoriales que agregar en cuanto vuelvas, ya que Colombia y Ecuador toman ventaja para firmar nuevos limites con Peru, debido a la Guerra de Tacna. Aqui te dejo una imagen: Saludos y gracias :D --Katholico 21:26, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
OK Vene. En cuanto a Peru, bueno efectivamente yo coloque que Peru fue tomado por una revolucion unos años despues de la Tacna War, pero que instalo un gobierno fascista basado en la (existente) Unión Revolucionaria, pero que duro hasta 1948 cuando USA organizo un Golpe. Aun asi, tu idea del Tawantin Suyu me suena muy interesante, y creo que podria surgir despues ya que yo coloque al nacionalista Ollanta Humala como el actual presidente de Peru. Podriamos analizar y trabajar en el asunto. Gracias, Saludos --Katholico 22:47, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
Hola! Si vi los cambios Vene. Ademas de la bandera, ahora Alemania sufre un proceso de desintegración similar a la URSS en OTL. Pero mira encontre que dice esto: In 1988, the Soviet Union abandoned its nine-year war with Kazhakstan and began to withdraw forces from the country. Esta bien? Saludos --Katholico 21:32, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Ya vote Vene :) Ah por cierto... eso del Tawantisuyo me dio una idea para el resurgimiento de la rivalidad Peruana - Chilena pero con Mayor Fuerza y peligro en tiempos mas actuales y que incluso podria involucrar una unión con la Bolivia indigena. Bueno, cuando tengas tiempo hablaremos sobre el tema. Saludos --Katholico 22:43, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


Sorry I forgot to reply to your post on the Greece page.

I like the general idea for New Athens, but if you could write something up on my talk page about your ideas, I'll make some sort of decision.

You'll want to bug Oer about this too, of course.

Just don't make it mostly pictures, eh?

Lordganon 23:18, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Latinoamerica en 1983:DD

Tengo una pregunta: Yo podría solo empezar editando un artículo o tengo que tener autorización de su creador? Fedelede 03:11, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Bueno, alguien llamado "Chlewey", quien es un colombiano inactivo desde hace mas de dos años, pero Mitro la editó en Septiembre. Claro que solo es una edit de categorías, y la última adición importante (International Relationships) es de octubre del 2009. Fedelede 21:27, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Seguro? Fedelede 21:40, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


CREE ESTE MAP GAME LLAMADO WW1 MAP GAMEMigue235 21:05, September 9, 2010 (UTC)



ok gracias por los arreglos y entonces dime un nombre para ponerle a utopiaMigue235 21:19, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


Perez Jimenez's Venezuela

Ven, please keep in mind I'm not attacking you as a writer in this, just pointing out my reason's for not supporting your TL to be Featured Alternate History. You are a great writer, but their are a few things that don't quite work for me in Perez Jimenez's Venezuela.

Some of the points that I think makes PJV (I like acronyms, by the way) overly nationalistic is many. The largest example is the bias toward Venezuela, where A) the oil profits are re-invested in the country, which, in OTL, were mostly held by major American corporations. Unless Jimenez is able to convince the American's to re-invest, or he simply takes them over, I do not see it happening. Also, you even mention that "sowing the oil" was difficult because their was few major business and people to invest in the infrastructure projects that is mentioned. The sudden immigration from Europe and Latin America seem almost by design: The dictatorship welcomes them with open arms, while many would have yearned for more freedom than what they would have put up with back home: Most of the immigration you talk about in OTL actually went their because Venezuela was a free, democratic country with a booming economy. Their is no mention of any economic downturns, which would still affect Venezuela, even if the money is still re-invested, which would have lead to protests and possibly coup d' etas against Perez Jimenez and his rule.

And in my biggest point, the major deciding factor for me, is that this story is exclusively set around Venezuela. Their is no mention of what would have happened to other countries if Venezuela remained under Jimenez's rule. And, it seems conveniently forgotten that Guyana was part of the Commonwealth of Nations,lead by Great Britain, one of the world's most powerful nations. In Venezuela did attack their outpost, wouldn't the British have responded? Especially during the 1980's: You seem to forget that "Iron Lady" Margret Thatcher sent a massive invasion force and the majority of the Royal Navy to defend the Falkland Islands after Argentina invaded. I would see Thatcher send an equally strong force to stop Venezuela from taking over Guyana. Reagan may have even stood behind her in this case. And what happened to Cuba? Does it still become communist, or does Jimenez send arms and aid Batista?

Now, if it is somewhat added to, to explain some of these points, and possibly add more to what would have happened if Jimenez does lead Venezuela until his death, and about other countries, I may just support it. It is good, just not quite ready to become featured Alternate History yet. Keep up the good work! Tbguy1992 15:34, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I'm not an expert on Latin America, as my prime knowledge is on Canada, the British Empire and the history of the US. I will concede the point abou the oil and the Europeans, but I think you should mention it on the article, or go more in depth into it.
How about, after the military invasion of Guyana, the Venezuelen's hold a refurendum to ligitimize their rule? To me, from reading it, it seems that it was an illegal invasion, which would have resulted in some form of punishment from the United Nations, although maybe the US would veto it, I'm not sure.
For Cuba, I don't mean sending armed soldiers to help stop Castro, but weapon's and money. I think, due to the anti-communist rhetoric of Jimenez, that he would have been a good, if not perfect, ally to the US, so maybe a more active foreign policy?
Now, for the economy, wouldn't the drop in oil prices in the 1980's lead to some difficulties? I would have highly doubted that Venezuela, unless their is little to no corruption and everything goes according to plan (which, in both cases, is nearly impossible in the world), would be self-sufficent to survive. Even a minor economic downturn or two would seem realistic, as even the US, the greatest economy in the world, has experienced economic downturns. Maybe the drop in oil prices results in an increase in unemployment and some higher prices, but Jimenez manages to elivate the pain with more government sponsored work? I don't know, but this is starting to sound a lot like An Independent in 2000, were thir is almost nothing wrong with the US (from a Liberal point of view) by 2008.
I hope these sound resonable, and I hope you will understand where I'm coming from. I'm a believer in realism, where even fiction has to work in some real boundries. Tbguy1992 17:46, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
First of all, if Venezuela is to have the worlds tallest building in the 1970's, it would either have to be before the World Trade Center Towers*, which were finished in 1972, and the north tower was 417 m (1,368 ft) and the south 415 m (1,362 ft) tall, or the now called Willis (formerly Sears) Tower, completed in 1974, and stands 1451-foot (442 m). But, if you do, I think that would be a great way of showing off Venezuela and it's wealth from oil.
  • Of all the days to talk about the World Trade Center... I feel a bit bad right now. May they rest in peace. Tbguy1992 22:22, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

CSTO y Pacto de Varsovia

Hola Vene, note has colocado en algunos articulos sobre estas dos organizaciones, pero no capto mucho que lugar ocupan en esta timeline, ya que en OTL se relacionan con Rusia. Podrias explicarme? Saludos --Katholico 20:52, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, ahora entiendo. Gracias por responder, y a proposito de organizaciones, veo que aun no te pasan por el articulo sobre la Alianza Americana. Si tienes tiempo despues, me gustaria que me digas tus ideas sobre el asunto. Saludos --Katholico 21:24, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

The Americas in "Central World"

Vene, I have spent most of my free time today (Saturday) looking over and commenting on "Central World." I am not pleased with the role you give America in a "massive" use of the Monroe Doctrine. Here is the opening paragraph taken from the Wikipedia article on the Monroe Doctrine:

The Monroe Doctrine is a United States policy that was introduced on December 2, 1823, which stated that further efforts by European countries to colonize land or interfere with states in the Americas would be viewed by the United States of America as acts of aggression requiring US intervention. The Monroe Doctrine asserted that the Western Hemisphere was not to be further colonized by European countries and that the United States would neither interfere with existing European colonies nor meddle in the internal concerns of European countries. The Doctrine was issued at a time when many Latin American countries were on the verge of becoming independent from the Spanish Empire and the United States, reflecting concerns echoed by Great Britain, hoped to avoid having any European power take Spain's colonies.

You have the US becoming the sponsor of every sort of dictator in the Americas for a good part of the twentieth century. The fact that some dictators did reign with an apparent approval of the US does not mean that the nation that was built on the principles of democracy and liberty would intentionally sponsor such governments out of some perverse sense of "national security." If you are going to vent your disdain for the present conditions in Venezuela, don't use the USA as a fall guy in a time line supposedly based on World Wars in which South America had little impact.

If "Central World" is truly to be a collaborative effort, and is open to input from Americans and Europeans that might actually have more of a feel for those histories, then much of what you have written will have to be changed. I have seen where many of your ideas might lead to a viable time line, so I don't wish to be harsh here. But I do want to assure the wiki carries quality articles that inform people of the possibilities and even role reversals that can occur in this genre. And so, let us try to make sure that things stay as close to truth and as far from fantasy as possible, okay? SouthWriter 04:08, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

¿Quien gana? ¿Mexico o USA?

Hola Vene, oye acabo debe ver en la discusión en Texas, y si bien Lordganon tiene algo de razon, no me parece por lo menos a mi que la cosa se invierta y deba ser EEUU quien gane y anexe territorios. Yo pienso que un Mexico sin revolución que lo haya desgastado por esos años puede muy bien ser capaz de resistir las ofensivas de USA hasta que los Poderes Centrales les envien ayuda. Quizas sea puedan dar dos situaciones: En el este (costa atlantica), USA logra penetrar territorio mexicano hasta ser contenido, mientras en el oeste, las tropas mexicanas tienen una poco mas de exito y avanzan dentro de territorio estadounidense (no mucho, claro esta), donde se estanca la lucha. El punto es que para cuando las fuerzas alemanas triunfan en Europa, en America, Mexico y USA siguen igual a igual con una lijera ventaja para USA, y por eso Mexico necesita la pronta ayuda de los Poderes Centrales, para asi tomar la ofensiva y forzar un armisticio de EEUU. Que te parece? Saludos --Katholico 16:31, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Si, entiendo, hay que preguntarle a SouthWritter, pero a lo que yo queria llegar es que debido a lo que dijo Lordganon la situación se invierte y USA gana, terminando la guerra de una mejor manera. Y es que lo fundamental de Central World es que tras la guerra, USA queda algo debil, ya que recuerda que en OTL ese fue el comienzo de USA como una nueva Superpotencia (se consagra definitivamente con la WW2). En fin, si Mexico no puede anexar territorios yo propongo que USA tampoco y todo vuelva a un status quo. Saludos --Katholico 17:01, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
XD No digo que no haya guerra, sino que EEUU NO puede ganarle a Mexico y anexarle territorio. ^^U Saludos --Katholico 17:16, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
Vene, y que dijo SouthWriter sobre USA y Mexico? Saludos --Katholico 04:34, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Entonces USA anexa territorios mexicanos, no? Yo esperaba que esto no ocurriera o al menos despues USA los devolviera. Saludos --Katholico 04:43, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Canada and Central World

That was actually my thought exactly - I will get around to it eventually, I assure you.

Yes, I noticed the fix to the USA thing. Much better now.

On another note, feel free to send me the ideas you had for the Greek Federation's capital in DD.

Lordganon 03:37, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

It would be likely. Heck, I'd actually have them annex Cuba outright too.

Lordganon 03:59, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Something like OTL Puerto Rico would be possible for the Caribbean nations/islands, and Panama, but not the others.

But not something like the British Commonwealth. Closest the Americans would come to that would be the alliance you already have set up.

For an associated (Commonwealth) state, there'd be no dictatorships. But for several of the allied states, it'd be an option.

Lordganon 04:14, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Netherlands in Central World

As a proud Dutchman, I have no other choice than to accept. ;)
I'll start working on it soon, using the info provided. --XterrorX 15:59, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

No problemo! Just one question; I've always been a supporter of the creation of a Greater Netherlands, seen the fact that the Belgian region of Flanders has a Dutch-speaking majority. So, may I merge that region with the Netherlands? In return I will also write the article about the Netherlands Antilles and Wallonia (unless you'd rather see that territory merged with France after the partition of Belgium, in which case I could also create/contribute to the France article). --XterrorX 16:46, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much for allowing me to add a suggestion to your timeline. And don't worry, I will keep my promise and also create France and the Netherlands Antilles. :) --XterrorX 17:04, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

I know you said I didn't have to ask your permission, but I'd like to know what you think of this. When the Netherlands were invaded by the Nazis and capitulated, the royal family went into exile (first in Great Britain and after the Battle of Britain in Canada). But as the monarchy is overthrown as early as 1919 and not in 1940, causing the monarchy to relocate to the Antilles, where they made a new Kingdom. However, Suriname was also part of the Dutch colonial empire during that time, so what if instead of creating an island nation on the Netherlands Antilles, the royal family moves to Paramaribo (capital of Suriname) where they acquire the French and British Guyanas (on the western and eastern borders) to create the Kingdom of Guyana or "Koninkrijk Guiana". Including the Antilles islands of course, who gain more a bit more autonomy. --XterrorX 01:26, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Alright then, only French Guyana will be acquired by the Kingdom. --XterrorX 01:41, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Cosas de Twiligh... (respuesta)

Algunas respuestas:

  • Mapamundi, todavía no esta elaborado, ademas de existir algunas piezas sueltas (países y situaciones) que no he resuelto todavía.
  • Unificación de Centroamérica. La idea de una Centroamérica unificada es bastante antigua [1] y un intento fallido existió en 1921. (Para mayores datos ver [2]). En mi versión sin embargo va tener una corta duración.
  • y porque USA anexa a medio Caribe? Antes de la política del buen vecino (pre 1930 aprox.), había muchos sectores (principalmente en el partido republicano y algunos demócratas) que promovían un Imperialismo estadounidense (Destino Manifiesto imperialista). Ya lo habían hecho con las Filipinas y Puerto Rico. Las constantes intervenciones en Centroamérica y el Caribe, así como la difundida idea de tener un protectorado sobre ellas hace plausible el escenario que propongo. Esto vía Mancomunidades (Commonwealths), que son una forma disfrazada de protectorado. En el caso de Cuba, después de 1891 hubo un interés frustrado por razones internas en incorporarlo como colonia/dependencia/protectorado que se desprende de una lectura muy libre de la Enmienda Platt que fue un intento muy a medias de realizarlo. Con esto, hago contrapunto a la idea de un México invadido por EE.UU. y transformado en un estado cliente de EE.UU. Dicha idea no es realista por razones practicas, militares y políticas, a pesar que aparece en muchas lineas de tiempo alternativas.

--JorgeGG 16:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hay WWI, pero es de 1915-1920. Faltan elaborar los detalles correspondientes. La principal diferencia con OTL WWI es que Austria-Hungria no es aliada de Alemania. La situación de EE.UU. y el resto de América puede andar bastante bien (e incluso recrudecer) en escenarios sin WWI. --JorgeGG 17:06, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Plantilla de Navegacion CW

Hola Vene. Acabo de ver que estas poniendo una tabla a modo de plantilla de navegacion de Central World... si quieres puedo crear esa la plantilla, digo, si no tenian pensado hacerlo primero?. Saludos --Katholico 16:53, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Plantilla hecha! :D Si quieres puedes cambiar los colores. Despues podemos repetir lo de 1983DD, que hizo plantillas para cada continente. Saludos --Katholico 17:37, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Esta bien asi? --Katholico 17:45, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Le cambie a color Ambar. Esta mejor? --Katholico 17:49, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

De nada:D Por cierto, ya regresaste de tu viaje? estaras mas en la wikia para ver las ideas que faltan a la timeline? Saludos --Katholico 17:55, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Que bien :D OK, despues entonces vemos la idea del Tawantisuyo (Peru-Bolivia) y la Alianza Americana. --Katholico 18:01, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
Vene, espero ahora o mas tarde tener hechas las platillas de paises por continente similares la Doomsday, por si acaso. Saludos --Katholico 19:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
Vene, hice algunas plantillas prero falta expandirlas. Ademas quiero que me digas si deberia hacer una para TODA Asia, o hacer varias de acuerdo a la zona (medio oriente, sudeste asiatico, lejano oriente, etc). Saludos --Katholico 20:10, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Vene, ayer hice las plantillas para Europa y Asia, las estoy arreglado y expandiendo, pero tengo algunas dudas: todos los paises de Asia pertenecen al GEACOP? Saludos --Katholico 02:32, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

OK, pero si no es toda Asia, entonces es casi toda, ya segun pude revisar en el mapa y el articulo, los unicos que no pertenecen al GEACOP son los 5 ex-estados sovieticos de Asia Central, Bangladesh y Pakistan jeje Bueno, de ahi me dices como te parece estan quedando las plantillas y cualquier otra indicacion. Mas rato hare la de Medio Oriente. Saludos --Katholico 03:32, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Italia en CW

Claro! Lo que pasa es que lo hice para un juego en el que yo jugaba como una Italia semi-fascista, y me exageré en el irredentismo. Le añadí el area de Lyon y Marsella. Y era el unico mapa que pude encontrar que tenia Saboya, y no solo Niza. Fedelede 00:59, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Asian World

Mira ayudame en mi nuevo articulo que estoy creando, se llama Asian Earth, iba a llamarlo asian world pero ya existia pero es malisimo. Bueno es un comunity pro ject y nescesito gente ayudando y como hago los templatesMigue235 14:11, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


Me parece una muy buena idea! Pero que tal si lo avanzamos mas y adoptamos todos los artículos inactivos de América Latina? Sería interesante :D Fedelede 20:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry if I may ask but may I work on the project too since I am of Costa Rican and Colombian background? I left a message on Fero's talk page on adopting the page already but I can delete it if we can all work together :) Arstarpool 22:03, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

necesito traducir

Vene, hola, que tal?!! :) Oye, podrias pasar al ingles lo siguiente porfavor?? Es para el articulo de la Guerra de Tacna. Si puedes solamente. Gracias! Saludos --Katholico 04:01, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Desde sus posiciones al interior de la provincia de Tarapacá, el ejército peruano organizó una ofensiva hacia la costa, con apoyada por la marina de guerra. La idea era primero aislar completamente Arica y luego lograr la captura del puerto de Iquique. Las operaciones comenzaron a mediados de Diciembre. En tierra las tropas chilenas resistieron el feroz embate peruano, mientras en el mar, las fuerzas navales chilenas y peruanas combatieron cerca de la bahía de Iquique. Pese a estar la marina peruana en ventaja durante las primeras horas de la batalla, la escuadra chilena logro posteriormente dar vuelta la situación, y conseguir el hundimiento de la mayor parte de la flota enemiga, aunque los buques recibieron mucho daño.

Con la derrota en Iquique, el ataque peruano en tierra pronto fue repelido, y las fuerzas debieron retirarse hacia posiciones previas.

Así como durante la Guerra del Pacifico en 1879, el resultado de la campaña naval nuevamente definió el curso de la guerra. Sin su marina, el asedio peruano a Arica comenzó a debilitarse, y para fines de enero de 1929, el Ejercito Chileno organizo una gran ofensiva para expulsar a las fuerzas peruanas de Tarapacá. Una vez hecho esto, le llegada de mas unidades desde el sur de Chile, permitió lanzar desde Iquique el contraataque definitivo que permitió liberar a Arica del asedio peruano. Para el mes de Marzo, el ejército peruano regreso a Tacna y organizo su defensa, mientras el gobierno de Leguía comenzó a experimentar las primeras críticas producto de estos primeros reveses en la guerra.

La campaña chilena para recuperar Tacna, empezó una semana después, y estuvo a cargo del General Carlos Ibáñez del Campo. Nuevamente, la cantidad de tropas peruanas que defendían superaban en número a las chilenas, sin embargo, Ibáñez poco a poco desgasto a los defensores, hasta conseguir rodear por completo la ciudad y forzar su rendición, el 12 de junio.

Tras recuperar Tacna y Arica, el gobierno chileno ofreció la paz a cambio de dichas provincias, pero el gobierno de Leguía respondió que no, a la vez que las fuerzas peruanas organizaron un nuevo ataque sobre Tacna. Sin embargo, la acción fallo y las tropas chilenas aprovecharon la ocasión para continuar el avance hacia Arequipa. La batalla por la ciudad comenzó el 11 de julio, y duro casi tres semanas hasta que el Ejército chileno logro ocupar el lugar. Fue el enfrentamiento que más vidas costo hasta ese momento, en especial de civiles.

Tras varios meses de guerra, y sin poder lograr un cese de hostilidades, el gobierno chileno de Luis Barros Borgoño decidió continuar con las operaciones bélicas hasta alcanzar Lima. La marcha del Ejército chileno hasta la capital peruana fue extremadamente difícil, debido a las efectivas defensas organizadas en el sur peruano, pese a la difícil situación en que estaba sumido el gobierno producto de los fracasos en Arica y Tacna. La superioridad numérica continúo siendo la principal ventaja de las fuerzas peruanas, pero lentamente, varios casos de deserción empezaron a aparecer, afectando la organización y el desempeño dentro de los batallones militares. Para fines de 1929, comenzó la llamada Gran Batalla de Lima, en la que hizo su debut la nueva Fuerza Aérea de Chile, bombardeando las defensas de la ciudad. Las hostilidades se desarrollaron principalmente a las afueras de Lima, y se extendieron hasta el 3 de enero de 1930, fecha en que finalmente la última guarnición del Ejercito Peruano se rindió a las fuerzas chilenas.

Poco antes de la caída de Lima, el Presidente del Perú Augusto Leguía se traslado a la ciudad de Huacho, donde planeo posteriormente mover la sede del gobierno hacia el norte. Sin embargo, mientras estuvo allí, parte de un regimiento se sublevo con la intención de deponerlo y arrestarlo. Leguía se resistió y los soldados le dispararon, causándole la muerte. Unas horas después, con la llegada de otras tropas, la insurrección fue aplastada.

Me parece buea idea, a ese articulo le faltan muchas cosas por explicar o aclarar, como por ejemplo que nivel de integración real y posible le seria posible alcanzar a Sudamerica. Saludos --Katholico 19:53, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
Hola Vene, oye Lordganon escribio en las discusiones de Japon y Guerra Fria, en algunas cosas me parece que tiene razón, pero no le entiedo eso de las Falklands, ¿?. Em por cierto, viste lo que pedi que tradujeras? Saludos y cuidate --Katholico 21:47, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Muchas gracias Vene!! :D Que iba preguntar si en la Guerra Fria los principales conflictos son entre Alamania y Japon.... USA es un tercer poder, pero menor, verdad? Y Ademas de la Guerra de la Patagonia, habria otro conflicto que involucre o en que USA tenga alguna relevancia? --Katholico 04:20, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Creole Languages of Antartica

No need to be pushy, but sorry I haven't replied yet. I have been limited on time I can be on the computer lately.

As for creole languages, I am sure that Antarctica would have some. But I am not an expert on creole languages, so I am not too sure how much help I can be. If you want, you are more than welcome to work on the subject for GWS. --NuclearVacuum 19:11, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

No, lo que pasa es que quería controlar a Bizancio que se estaba saliendo de manos con Italia y quería añadirle un montón de enemigos. Fedelede 22:25, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

No estoy seguro, pero mi plan es el Imperio Bizantino reducido a una parte pequeña de Grecia, Bulgaria y Turquía con capital en Atenas pues quiero que los Italianos quemen Constantinopla para vengar a Nápoles. Fedelede 22:33, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

No, soy de ancestría alemana, pero soy un Italófilo (me encanta Italia) Fedelede 22:36, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

The New SAC

We are now the official caretakers of the South American Confederation! How are we going to govern this article? Should we split into groups?

If we split up into groups here is my idea: I can work on the International Relations, History, and Government. You can work on Culture, History, and Economy. Fedelede can work work on Military and History. Katholico can work on History and Constitution. What do you think?

And for the countries, how about me and Fedelede work on Colombia, Peru, and Bolivia, you with Venezuela, Paraguay and Uraguay, Katholico can work on Chile, Argentina and Ecuador. All of us can work on Brazil since it is the largest nation.

Are you ok with this plan? Arstarpool 23:18, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't care. Should it be with stripes like an American or Cuban flag or should it be an emblem? Arstarpool 23:20, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Acutally, that would be too drastic. I don't see why Singapore would be a member; they have great relations but that doesn't mean that they are a Spanish speaking nation. Changing the name would require too many changes and stuff. The thing is that Brazil isn't Latin, neither is Singapore. Have you thought of the name South American Union? Does it sound better or not? Kind of like the European Union. Arstarpool 23:37, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

But when most people think of Latin, they think of Hispanics only. That could cause some confusion. Why don't we respect Feros original work and leave the name? I like your idea about the new constructed capital city, but where would it be? And remember than South America is not one nation, so it would be more like a meeting place than a capital.

Europe 1430 Map game

Sorry to remove all your posts on the 1430 European map game, but I think I need to clarify something about your implausibility.

  • The Byzantine Empire is on friendly terms with Damascus, but are allied with Georgia, Adana, and Anatolia. They have also guaranteed Kurdistan's right to exist. If Damascus invades Kurdistan, it would mean bringing on them the wrath of the Byzantines and Georgia, who have both recognized Kurdistan.
  • Damascus is a more Western European than Greek or Muslim country. They are Catholic.
  • If Damascus specifically attacks the Byzantine Empire it will mean they are at war with all the Byzantines' allies: Georgia, Anatolia, Adana, Morea, and the Knights of St. John. That will mean suicide for Damascus. They cannot fight all these nations at once. They also have no reason to ally with Italy if their relations are improving with the Byzantine Greeks.
  • Christianity is already the official religion of the Byzantines, why did in your last post have the emperor overthrown and Christianity 'reestablished'? That makes no sense. Besides, the current political state of the Byzantine Empire makes one ruling family always in control and revolts are nearly impossible.

I had to remove your map as well because it showed Sicily as part of the Byzantine Empire. Part of the peace agreement was that the Italians could keep Sicily. The Byzantines would only retain the original borders on southern Italy. Sicily was not included in the deal.

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask! --Emperor of Trebizond 00:26, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Venezuela in FTBW

Alright, you caught me. To be honest, for the most part I was simply making stuff up, and the flag I just pulled out of the Image database on the Wikia. The TL will be continuing to 2010 and beyond, but most of the nation articles, as of now, are simply placeholders: I'm going to be filling them in later once I get the TL to the present done.

And, thanks for saying that I inspired you! I have been reading those articles, and I have to say they are good, though they go into much more detail than I would have for mine.

Also, If you don't mind, would you be able to help me with some of my stuff? I'm running low on ideas of what to do, though ATL's WWI is already set in stone, in my mind. And believe me, it will be different from every other WWI that comes around on this TL.

Anyway, good to hear from you, and please keep reading FTBW! I always appreciate your feedback!

Tbguy1992 23:33, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

From what I could see, it would still have only been a matter of time before Spain's South American colonies revolted. Even though Napoleon did not invade Spain ATL, the repressive measures by the Colonial overlords against the millions of impoverished natives, and the excluding of those of European descent born in the Colonies, lead to the two groups ultimately working together to overthrow the Spanish. I personally think it would have been more guerrilla warfare than OTL, ultimately resulting in a massive loss of life on both sides, until the US and France forced the Spanish to reach an agreement with the rebels. Spain, with little international support, had no choice but give them their freedom, as by the end, the Spanish held on a few major cities, while the country side and most of the towns and cities were controlled by Bolivar's and José de San Martín's men. Their bitterness drove Spain to the British-Prussian Alliance against France.

Napoleon only intervened when the majority of the citizens of the empire, still believing in the ideals of the Revolution, "encouraged" Napoleon to do something. The USA would rather see a bunch of smaller, Latin American States than one massive Spanish empire, so would send weapon's and aid.

Does this make some sense? Tbguy1992 00:08, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it would be best to hear it from a person who actually lives in South America, than reading it on Wikipedia in Canada. Tbguy1992 00:27, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Algunos temas

Vene, por si acaso, retire la seccion Peru-Colombia War de la timeline porque esta no ocurre, dado que Peru queda en crisis tras la Tacna War. En años 30, Colombia y Ecuador amenazan con la guerra, y Peru se forzado a entregarle los territorios que reclaman. Por cierto, habra que Gran Depresion? Es que estuve leyendo comentarios que dicen que quizas ésta no se produzca ¿?. Saludos y gracias. --Katholico 23:15, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Oceania Crisis

Pues la verdad Vene, me gusta mas la crisis. De esta forma el Imperio Japones, la ultima de las potencias victoriosas, finalmente cae y pasa a la historia junto a los extintos Imperios de Austria-Hungria, Italia y Alemania... dando paso al comienzo de una Nueva Era, con EEUU y Rusia, ademas de otras naciones en America y Europa emergiendo y dando forma al nuevo orden mundial. Bueno, eso prefiero yo... ademas si no me equivoco Hawaii anuncio que iba a surgir una nueva organizacion para el Asia-Pacifico libre de dominio japones, y eso promete mucho. :) Saludos --Katholico 19:25, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Si, por eso mismo. Trasladado a Central World, USA y Rusia serian nuevas potencias emergiedo. Otros poderes emergentes menores estarian en America Latina (y no solo Brasil, ya que la región habria progresado mas que en OTL), Europa y quizas Asia-Oceania. Saludos --Katholico 19:53, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
Pero, esto cuando ocurriria? Es que me parece que al crear esa Comunidad, Japon pareciera salvarse de la extinción y seguiria siendo superpotencia ¿o igual cae al final? Mi principal preocupación es esa Vene. Saludos --Katholico 20:06, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
Bueno, si es asi esta bien :) entonces hay que cambiar como sera el Fin del Imperio Japones y borrar las noticias de la Crisis si es que no haber. Saludos --Katholico 20:22, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Islas Malvinas/Falklands

Y antes que me olvide Vene, cual es el status de las Falklands? Siguen bajo dominio britanico? habra algun evento de la guerra fria alli?. Es que tenia ideas para esas islas. Saludos --Katholico 20:43, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

OK; es que estaba viendo la posibilidad de que la Argentina durante los gobiernos de Perón las recupere, como antesala para la Guerra de la Patagonia. Saludos --Katholico 21:01, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hola Vene, que paso? Te equivocaste de discusión? ^_^U --Katholico 02:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

XD Descuida, a veces pasa. Em, por cierto, no me quedo claro algo. Gran Bretaña tiene un gobierno titere aleman? hasta que año? y crees que podria haber una guerra de las malvinas exitosa para argentina? Saludos --Katholico 02:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
Ah ya veo. Si, por eso pensaba que quizas esa guerra seria a fines de los '50 con un UK mas debil, y una Argentina bajo un gobierno con mas exito de Perón, simpatizante de Alemania. Argentina ganaria la guerra, y empezaria a mostrar actitudes mas expansionistas que llevan a la Guerra de la Patagonia y a una crisis en la Alianza Americana. Pero al final Chile gana y Argentina vuelve a estar 100% en la esfera de EEUU. Bueno, es una simple idea no mas, la Patagonia War es suficiente :). --Katholico 02:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Central World, World Map

Recently I have created a map that should pretty much cover every country in Central World accuratly. I figure you'd know how to use it in the TL better than I. Frymon 03:48, September 26, 2010 (UTC)


Central World?

Hello Venezuela. You asked me a while ago and you have not answered. But no matter, I would like to ask again. If you don't mind me helping out, I would love to do some work on the Central World. Quite ironic, since I am pro-Russian and this is a timeline where Russia would be divided and submissive just as Germany and Japan were in OTL, while they get all the power. Granted Russia is growing in power, it is just funny for me to think of Russia in this manner. Especially since Kamchatka and Primorie are now Japanese enclaves, but East Prussia is a Russian enclave in OTL. Sorry, I just keep thinking about that, what a weird an alien idea you came up with. I would love to help out on Russia and maybe the other "Russian" nations in the region, such as the Far Eastern Republic and so on.

I could also help out when it comes to a global map. I already know that someone had posted to you recently with a map, and I don't want to be showboating against them, but I could do an SVG version exactly the same as the one used on Wikipedia. It would be quite weird, but easy for me to do. --NuclearVacuum 00:37, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean by "Japan annexed Kamchatka, Magadan, Primorsky, Amur, Sakhalin, and south and central Khavarovsk." I can see that the border of Japanese Primorie is the Amur river. But what does Magadan and Amur have to do with it? I don't see Japan annexing any regions besides Kamchatka and Primorie.
Also, Russia was divided like Germany? I didn't know that. And there was a "Moscow War"? Now I feel even more sorry for Russia. But yeah, what were the sides? And what is the situation with the Far Eastern Republic? Is it a pro-Japanese state, a pro-Russian state, or a neutral state? --NuclearVacuum 01:02, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Glad that you like my maps too. Also, I have a few things I would like to bring up.

  1. You mentioned that the Yenisei River is the border between East Russia (which I will assume is fascist) and West Russia (which is either democratic or Japanese). Is that correct?
  2. How was Moscow divided?
  3. What came of St. Petersburg?
  4. I love the idea that Finland becomes a Suur-Suomi (Greater Finland). But if I may ask, I think the border should also include Murmansk and portions of northern Norway. Would that be okay?
  5. How much of Kamchatka does Japan intend to take? Because the map showing Japan shows different borders for Japanese Kamchatka. Also, Japan seems to take control of the islands of the Russian Arctic? I don't think this should be.

I also made this temporary map, so I could get a better understanding of what Russia and Eurasia would look like in this timeline. I used some border ideas I found from this map I found. So Japan would have much more of Kamchatka, and the borders of the other nations in the region have been semi-changed. Also, ignore the part where the Ural Mountains is the border between East and West Russia. I was assuming that East Russia (centered in Omsk) was democratic and its own nation, so the Yenisei River would have made Russia very small in comparison to West Russia. But you just mentioned that it was under Japanese control. So if that were the case, than I can see how that would work. --NuclearVacuum 11:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Please forgive me for my wording, but I can't think of a nicer way to ask this. But, may I please have an answer? --NuclearVacuum 01:35, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Sorry, I didn't mean to bother you like that, but I have been getting some ideas and such. --NuclearVacuum 02:35, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


I think you are mistaken Ven, only Oerwinde is listed as an expert at Photoshop. Mitro 02:45, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

FTBW Ideas

Now, I really hate to burst your bubble Ven, but their will be no invasion of Britain. The POD occurs in late 1805, by which time Napoleon had already given up the idea of invading the UK, and decided to focus on Austria and Russia: The Battle of Trafalgar was a moot point if France won. France was not going to invade England because they were focused on the East.

The map you show is from about 1812, and, like I said, the POD was in 1805. France will not declare war on Spain (it happened in 1808 OTL, but the war would have already been over for a year), and Holland was a republic until 1806, when France made it a Kingdom, but forcefully brought into the Empire after Napoleon's brother, Louis, tried to serve the interests of the Dutch and not France, in 1810 OTL, so France would not have taken over the nation, as their would have been no need, the war having ended four years before.

Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, the timeline in regards to there is done. I'm not going to change it, because that will mean I have to change almost everything else I've done, and I'm not going to do that.

Do you think their may be some other way that South America can be altered that won't affect the TL to much? I'm no where near an expert on South America: my specialty is on Europe, Russia and North America, but I would appreciate any ideas you may have in regards to Latin America. I feel like I should develop it more, but I just don't have the knowledge to do so without making anything to outlandish. Already I've gotten questions about "The Assembly of Chile" and other such things that I made up in regards to S. America. If you could help me, I would really, really appreciate it. Tbguy1992 03:24, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I really like how the map looks! I'm guessing you took it from about 1865 or so, yes? Because the world will have changed again, especially in North America, in 1885.
And, I'm almost to the point of what would be like OTL's WWI, though I do have a set idea, which will make it different from any other World War One that you may see... I think it will work, mostly because it will be the way to move it into the WWII I have in mind... But I have classes in half an hour, so I won't be updating till later today. Still, thanks, and please keep sending ideas, as, even if your ideas may not work yet, I won't forget them, and they may work later, or possibly in something else I may work on later. Tbguy1992 12:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks! I have signed up for the map game, and I really appreciate you making that map. Now, in a while, I may need a newer and updated map, as the TL is not done yet. Anyway, thanks! Tbguy1992 18:48, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Map Games Wiki

Mira cree esta pagina de map games ayudame si puedes podria desviar algunos map games para esta pagina y asi los map games no van a invadia althistory map games wiki

Migue235 21:02, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Map Game 1962

Hola, Vene. Em en este momento no podre jugar :/ Pero tengo una duda... ¿Solo se puede elegir a una de las naciones que aparecen escritas alli?? Despues vuelvo :) Saludos --Katholico 00:36, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Ya no tanto. Pero tengo una pregunta: Cual es el problema con eso? Yo hice la primera invasión, pero Emperor of Trebizond se pasó. Lo que pasa es que estoy cansado de "El imperio Bizantino y aliados son lo mas poderoso, derrotan a todo, etc. etc.". Fedelede 16:01, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

The Byzantines were the first nation to support and back Kurdistan, so if they ever attacked it, it's only right it should go back to them. Besides, Damascus didn't fight for Kurdistan, the Greeks did. They deserved it. In addition, Cyprus has a significant Greek population and would join the Orthodox Byzantines. And how is Damascus going to hold all that territory down to the Red Sea? They have neither the manpower nor the resources to do it. And the majority population would be Sunni Muslim, not Catholic or even Orthodox. I gave Damascus some territory in Hedjaz. They're going to need to take some time to suppress and govern the populance there. And you want to give them Kurdistan, Cyprus, all of Syria, Jordan, and northwestern Arabia? They can't do it. Damascus is not a superpower. They need to take time to recover from the previous war and suddenly getting an empire to forcibly rule is not what they want or anything they can sustain.--Emperor of Trebizond 18:18, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Map Game

You don't need me to do that. Just revert it yourself. Mitro 20:38, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Russia

Thank you very much. But I do have one issue with the map. I don't think Japan should control that much of Primorie, I liked the idea better when the Amur river was the border. When I asked how Moscow was divided, I meant which side was which, and what the border was. --NuclearVacuum 16:34, October 9, 2010 (UTC)



Okay. But there was also another question I have been meaning to ask you, but I haven't had the time to do so. I was thinking that maybe Kamchatka would be divided just as it was prior to the unification of the subject just recently. So southern Kamchatka would be Japanese, while northern Kamchatka would be part of the Far Eastern republic.
I made a quick map to show what I had in mind after see what you had in mind. Just a thought, don't take it seriously. I also believe that the Altai Republic should also include the Altai Krai just next door, making it a bit bigger. What do you think? --NuclearVacuum 17:20, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
Flag of the Dalnevostok
Really, you want to use the flag of the Dalnevostok? I was also thinking about naming the FER in TTL to Dalnevostokia. And another question about Manchukuo. IF it were to have remained a nation, wouldn't the English name for the nation evolve into the traditional English name of Manchuria? As for NIA, you really think Lebanon wouldn't want anything to do with the UAR? Also, I thought Lebanon was Muslim, not Catholic. But either way, NIA is still a WIP compared to my other timelines. --NuclearVacuum 17:54, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
Hm, never knew that about Lebanon. Also, if you are keen on keeping the name Manchukuo, than maybe we can have some fun a nipponize Dalnevostok (maybe something like Dalnevostokuo, but I want to do some more research on that). --NuclearVacuum 18:12, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
That is only a temporary name. I am going to be doing some research so I can authentically nipponize the name. Maybe the nation could be named after the nipponized form of Dauria (a Sino name for the region). Also, I have been getting some ideas about "Dalnevostokuo" and what its place could be in this timeline. It would be a "twin" of Manchukuo, but under a republican form of government. It would be a pro-Japanese nation with a strong Russian speaking population. --NuclearVacuum 18:21, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
Update: The nipponized name of Dauria would be "Daurukuo" (I think that would be a pretty interesting name for the nation). --NuclearVacuum 18:35, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

So Daurukuo would be a pro-Russian nation, not pro-Japanese. --NuclearVacuum 18:48, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Man, you just told me that. I think I am going crazy. But either way, I have some interesting ideas for Daurukuo. All in good time. Also, mind if I were to cleanup the nations list for Central World? I don't mean taking nations out, I mean cleaning up the code so it looks cleaner. --NuclearVacuum 18:56, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean by "start from 0"? I was only meaning fixing up the infoboxes across the page, sorting them out and making it look cleaner one by one. --NuclearVacuum 20:48, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well, here are a few examples I have in mind. The nations list should only include the nation, not all information on it, while the page has all the information on it. But since this is an OTL, it should have a section showing what the nation's borders are. --NuclearVacuum 21:25, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Algunas preguntas

Hola Vene!!! Como has estado? :) Mira, te queria preguntar primero, si Las Antillas Holandesas forman parte de American Alliance o de alguna otra organizacion??? Segundo, te queria pedir si por favor me puedes pasar al ingles lo siguiente para la Guerra de la Patagonia, pero antes queria saber si estas de acuerdo en lo que escribi, en el papel de este conflicto en la Guerra Fria???. Bueno, espero tu respuesta. Saludos, cuidate y gracias desde ya!!!!! --Katholico 02:27, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Durante la primera mitad del siglo XX, los litigios limítrofes que se presentaron entre Argentina y Chile fueron resueltos de una manera pacifica, propiciando de este modo buenas relaciones diplomáticos entre ambos países. Sin embargo, la llegada de la Guerra Fría a America Latina después de 1945, cambio radicalmente las cosas.

Si bien ambos países formaron parte de la misma alianza americana contraria a las hegemonías alemana y japonesa, Argentina mantuvo importantes lazos diplomáticos y comerciales con el Imperio Alemán durante las presidencias de Juan Domingo Perón, lo que le trajo varios roces con EEUU. Chile también crítico esta actitud hacia el fascismo alemán por parte del gobierno Argentino, lo que deterioro la relación entre ambas naciones.

En los años 60, surgieron nuevamente litigios entre Chile y Argentina sobre la soberanía de varias zonas limítrofes en la Patagonia, pero las negociaciones directas para resolverlos no tuvieron éxito, y la definición de un mediador tampoco logro consenso. En este escenario, el gobierno de Alemania vio la oportunidad de quebrar la unidad del bloque americano, y para ello hizo que la Comunidad Europea diera su público apoyo a las reclamaciones territoriales argentinas. Este hecho, provoco la indignación de Chile y de EEUU, quienes enviaron una protesta a la Asamblea de la O.N. En tanto, en la misma Argentina, el gobierno inicio una campaña para fomentar el sentimiento nacionalista. Alemania continúo con su plan de desestabilización enviando material bélico y maquinarias a la Argentina. EEUU también hizo lo propio con Chile, pero de forma más limitada y lenta debido al grave temor de la administración del Presidente Johnson a la guerra en America. Ante esta situación el gobierno de Chile decidió buscar otros proveedores de armamentos, consiguiéndolos sorpresivamente en el Imperio del Japón.

Para fines de 1965, las tensiones entre ambas naciones alcanzaron su punto crítico, cuando el 6 de noviembre ocurrió un enfrentamiento entre algunos carabineros chilenos y un contingente gendarmes argentinos en la zona denominada Laguna del Desierto, y que termino en la muerte del Teniente chileno Hernán Merino, tras rechazar a los policías argentinos. Este hecho finalmente desencadenaría el conflicto entre Chile y Argentina.

Tras el incidente de Laguna del Desierto, la reacción chilena a la muerte del oficial de carabineros fue directa hacia el gobierno argentino, exigiendo explicaciones sobre el hecho (considerado por cada lado como una incursión ilegal en territorio nacional) y un compromiso real por querer solucionar pacíficamente los litigios. Sin embargo, el gobierno argentino optó por ocupar este incidente para comenzar de una vez con la guerra. Tras unos meses de preparación, Argentina declaro la guerra a Chile el día 16 de enero de 1966.

Em Vene, leiste lo que puse arriba? o.o Por cierto, XterrorX esta trabajando ahora en las Antillas Holandesas, pero ahora son Guiana e incluyen Suriname y Guyana Francesa. Saludos! --Katholico 19:13, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

CW questions

How's it going? I am currently trying to make seance of the borders of Europe in TTL, and a lot of the information is conflicting to me. I am getting information that Italy includes territory that was part of Austria-Hungary, more information that Germany includes Sudetenland (which was part of Austria-Hungary), and that Italy also includes several Greek islands. I am currently getting confused, and I was hoping that you could shed some light on the subject.

  1. Germany has its imperial border and with Luxembourg. Why and how does Germany get Sudetenland?
  2. Fedelede has given me a description of Italy, but he also includes portions of Austria-Hungary. If AH won the war, how does Italy (even if they would remain a central power) gain any portion of Austria-Hungary?
  3. Romania has the same border as in OTL. But if the central powers one, how does Romania gain Transylvania? I can understand it gaining Bessarabia, but not Transylvania.

Please forgive me for my constant questioning. But I really want to be accurate with this timeline. Best wishes. --NuclearVacuum 12:09, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, that makes seance. I wouldn't think Austria-Hungary would be that keen on giving up territory and still be an ally of Germany and Italy. But this makes more questions. If Germany expands, wouldn't German speaking Austria be on the list? And more interesting, Hitler was born in Austria, and if he is the leader of Germany, why not be leader of Austria, or expand to include Austria? --NuclearVacuum 16:26, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
United States of Greater Austria (Franz&#039;s World)
Ah, I see. But just another question and than an idea. Here is a map showing the proposed states for the United States of Greater Austria. It shows three German speaking states: German Austria, German Bohemia, and German Moravia. I am not too sure if you already had this in mind, but since Austria-Hungary is not divided up, than the modern border of the Sudetenland would most likely have not formed. What if the USGA state of German Austria acts as the border of TTL modern day Austria, while the two remaining German states (which is Sudetenland) be annexed by the German Empire. I find it rather shameful for Austria to loose all of the Sudetenland.
The next question has to do with Italy. I can understand it gaining the Italian portions of Austria-Hungary (the proposed states of Trentino and Trieste), but why does it gain all of Dalmatia and all of Istria, when these were clearly not Italian? Or was this another attempt at Italian expansion after the collapse in 1989? --NuclearVacuum 17:01, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Central World

Hey Ven, I'm wondering if you happen to need any more help with Central World, as I feel like helping out some of these major projects that are going on.

I would like to create something about the Trans-atlantic steamships, as that is an area of expertise of mine, as well as other articles I can't think of at the moment.

Please let me know, and I'll get working on it right away!

Tbguy1992 15:48, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

OK, I hate to bother you, but I was wondering under what I should put this article about naval transportation: is it a technology thing, or communications, or if a separate category for Transportation be made. I will offer to, at least, start an article on air, sea and land transportation, in connection to Central World. How does that sound? Tbguy1992 20:07, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good! I will start those pages for Central World Soon.
As for FTBW, I don't think their will be a French Commonwealth (yet), because, in ATL, France and the US will still be in a cold War (the US will be more leftist, while France is more conservative.)
I haven't completely figured out how to work it out, but most likely it will be over colonization, threat of nuclear war and sheer power. It won't be a big ideological battle like in OTL: but I think France will become more dictatorial and closed after the ATL WWII (Third Global War).
Does that make any sense to you? I still have to finish the reset of the article leading up to the Third Global war, so I most likely have a week or two before I get to the Cold War thing, so I would like to get that figured out! If you can help me, or come up with any ideas, please let me know!
Tbguy1992 16:45, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

They way I'm currently thinking, the Cold War would start at the end of the Third Global war (which is basically OTL WW2: the First Global War was in the 1860's, and was really three separate wars in one, while the Second Global War in like OTL WWI), with Russia on one side (still under the Rommanov's, and with eastern and Northern Europe and Central Asia); France, with all of Western, Southern Europe and North Africa under their control, as well as allies in South America, and the US, with North America, Japan and Australia and South-east Asia in their sphere of influence. But, the Russian Empire collapses in the 1960's, and the power vacuum that's caused makes France and the US the predominate powers in the world, with Russia joining the US sphere of Influence (most likely named the Pacific Pact); and the French get Eastern Europe and Mid East under their control.

By about 1990, the cold war is slowly starting to come to a close, but then the terrorist attacks of 9/9/99 on France and her allies by Mid-East Islamic and Political fundamentalists results in the Cold War getting colder again, and proxy wars, so the Cold War is, technically, continuing to this day.

What do you think about that? I'm trying to not follow all the established cliches of AH, most notably the "Evil Empire collapsing in 1990's Cold War" and the "Hitler somehow always comes to power in Germany as Dictator" (he is PM of Austria-Hungary). Tbguy1992 17:09, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Won't don't you like about it? Just wondering, so maybe I might fix to make it make sense. Tbguy1992 19:35, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
Well, France may collapse; Eventually. It just will take longer because France is stronger than what Russia would have been in OTL. That is why I say the cold war continues on to this day. It may end in a few years, maybe, or in a few decades, I don't know. But one will eventually collapse, and it most likely will be France. Tbguy1992 15:30, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Europe map


Hello. I made a quick map of Europe for CW. Hope you like the rough draft, plus I changed a couple of things, so tell me what you think. --NuclearVacuum 13:53, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Pregunta sobre The Day the...

Hola Vene, como has estado? Disculpa, pero esa historia The Day the Red Fall, no me queda clara. ¿Son 3 bandos? URSS vs Eje vs Aliados Occidentales? Saludos! --Katholico 23:22, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Ahh, es que por un momento pense que Alemania y los Aliados se habian unido contra la URSS jeje y eso se hubiera parecido a otra historia que hay en la wikia xD. De cualquier modo, si es una guerra a 3 bandos creo que seria mas catatrofica y sangrienta que la OTL Segunda Guerra. La cantidad de recursos humanos y materiales que los aliados necesitarian para vencer al Eje y la URSS serian mucho mayores, y como colocaste tu la guerra dura mas. America Latina tonaria parte del conflicto? Saludos --Katholico 23:55, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Chile No Socialista

Hola Vene, antes de que me olvide te iba a invitar a que le echaras un vistazo a mi historia en wikia en español: Chile No Socialista Y me contaras en cuanto tengas tiempo que te parece? Saludos!!! :D --Katholico 04:19, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Que genial que te gusto la althistory, gracias!! Y Pues nop, no estoy con esos gobiernos (salvo el de R. Correa). Precisamente por eso mi historia se llama Chile No Socialista xD Que cosa te hizo pensar eso? (o.o quizas me equivoque en alguna parte) Y claro, adelante, coloca la "Venezuela de Perez Jimenez" en la wikia :D Mientras mas historia y gente mejor, ya que comparado con esta wikia ingles, la version en español le falta muchisimo para llegar a su nivel. Saludos! --Katholico 16:59, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
Ahh por un momento crei que habria escrito algo que te habia hecho pensar eso xD Que Zelaya tiene un banco alla??? O.O Hace tiempo que no sabia de él... bueno, pensandolo bien, generalmente eso pasa en estos casos ¬¬ a los que son sacados, luego se van donde un "amigo". Sobre Perez Jimenez, ademas de los cambios que ya colocaste aqui, quizas haya mas coordinación entre otras dictaduras para evitar la proliferación de mas movimientos extremistas de izquierda en el continente. Quizas algunas elecciones en USA resulten diferente, como la de 1960? o quizas la invasión a bahia de cochinos tenga exito si Venezuela ayuda a EEUU? Y Vietnam, puede o no estallar la guerra o terminar de forma distinta. Saludos --Katholico 21:04, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
Sobre las elecciones, puede ser en cualquier año,... te dare como ejemplo mi historia: alli puse que Ted Kennedy se convierte en Presidente en 1980 gracias a que tiene un papel importante para lograr el fin de una guerra en sudamerica. Habria que ver los contextos de las elecciones y buscar una manera pausible de intervenir con algun hecho. Al menos yo lo veo de esa forma, no se si te parece bien. ^^U jeje Sobre Vietnam, si hay cambios de presidentes en USA quizas ello afecte el desarrollo de la guerra. Saludos! --Katholico 01:20, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
Oye, Vene, te queria avisar que si lo deseas puedes escribir sobre Venezuela en mi historia. Estaba viendo si algunos lideres de America Latina pueden surgir en mi timeline o no. Saludos --Katholico 00:33, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
Bueno, primero hay una guerra en sudamerica en 1978, y ya con eso hay algunos cambios. Sobre el resto de America Latina, haber, yo planteaba en mi linea de tiempo que Chile se transforma como un "modelo" debido a que no sufre una dictadura y mantine solida su democracia durante la guerra fria, y por tanto se consigue que algunos regimenes militares entreguen el poder a los civiles antes, o las democracias se consolidan mas rapido, con la cooperacion de EEUU y los propios paises de sudamerica. --Katholico 01:11, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
OK me avisas :) Si he estado leyendo la timeline, y de hecho estaba pensando como se veria afectado Chile para decirte. En 1958 se realizaron elecciones Chile, y gano el independiente de derecha Jorge Alessandri, superando por poco al socialista Salvador Allende. En 1973 esta el golpe y Pinochet asume como gobernante hasta 1990 y pierde el plebiscito en 1988. Si hay cambios en Chile, serian sobre esos hechos. --Katholico 01:38, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


Vene, se me habia olvidado preguntarte. Pakistan en Central World es parte de la India, no? --Katholico 03:04, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Cambio de banderas

Ven, te cambie la bandera de Alemania en Central World, ya que el archivo que usas fue cambiado. Le puse la bandera que corresponde (Flag of the Weimar Republic.png). En todo caso el extinto Estado de Waldeck usaba la actual bandera alemana desde 1848 aprox. JorgeGG 13:10, December 8, 2010 (UTC)


Nice to see you back, I suppose.

Where to start....

The USSR may be prepping to move towards Karelia, but they won't manage it either.

Our little guys in the Caucasus also have the Russian Confederacy in the way - so really, they are pretty safe from any sort of attacks by the Siberians.

There is no reason why the Kuban government would be overthrown, honestly. They may be a touch more socialist then the rest, but by no means are they friends of the Siberians, or, indeed, opposed to the RC. I realize that it's not written here, but these guys are all on pretty good terms with them (Azerbaijan aside, anyway), though unwilling to ally themselves with them (nukes will do that to someone, lol). There's no reason why the people would overthrow them at all.

The RC is a bit too far to extend any great influence as far south as Armenia and Azerbaijan - and the Azeris, being Muslims, would decline such an offer of mediation anyway. Others have offered, but the Armenians refuse Muslims, and want Christians, while the Azeris are the opposite, leading them nowhere. I'm also not willing to part with Nackhivan like that, lol.

The URC is interested elsewhere, and Crimea will be allied to them soon. They also refuse to work with the RC as long as they occupy Ukrainian soil - and they won't give it up anytime soon.

As for an alliance.... most of these countries hate each other to the point where they barely speak to each other, let alone are willing to ally.

No matter how the RC sounds, honestly, they are not democratic, or even that close, in many cases, unlike the Caucasus nations. There's no way for a hegemony of theirs to get into power either. Simply put, no one would agree with it, as that would be giving up their independence, which none of them want. Burkara is simply to war and isolated for that to work at all.

Sometime next month, a Black Sea Alliance will be founded - and plans are currently for Kuban and Don to join it, with Crimea.

Kalmaykia is about the only one that would align itself with the RC, if nothing else to keep their religion intact, as they have only a minuscule military.

The others would likely join the BSA (a temporary name, mind) at some point.

Basically, the Siberians are not a threat here yet - and wont be for a while - but the Turks are nearby, and are very expansionist in nature.

Lordganon 05:59, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

Seems LG got most of points in then. The only thing i would say is that your statement that everyone hates everyone else is grossly oversimplified. The URC does hate the RC and several other nations hate one another but that's not to say that, for example the RC might lend a hand to defend the Caucasus nations from the Turk's. (Its in their national interests to prevent any other Superpower arising in Asia) or that they wouldn't all band together in the unlikely event of a Siberian invasion.Vegas adict 15:12, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

Hatred is often irrational, vegas. There's a tiny chance that they might all band together, but in the end I highly doubt it.

Note I never said that the RC would not help them, either - just that it would never happen as ven proposed.

Lordganon 22:44, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with LG. I think, that in a dire situation with Siberia, they would (temporarily, mind you) band together to kick Siberia out of Europe. Look at the Greek City States of ancient times, they did the same thing. Arstar 00:47, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ahh, but you forget that with the Greeks war was different - just over influence, and things like that. These nations also have ethnic quibbles as well, which decreases the odds of them all doing so severely. Most of them, yes - but not all of them at all.

Lordganon 03:19, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

But if the Siberians were literally invading all of them, you don't think that they'd all temporarily stop fighting, kick out the Siberians, and resume their quibbles? Arstar 05:17, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

The Siberians couldn't manage to invade them all at once - that'd be impossible because of the locations of these guys (i.e. have to get through some to get to others), imo. I'm sure some would band together, but for most part it just wouldn't happen.

In history, there are many more cases of when this type of thing occurs, the infighting continues. Natives in the New World, and the situation around the Second World War (such as the actions of Poland with the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia) being good examples of this.

Kinda nuts that it happens, but it's much more likely than not.

Lordganon 05:43, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

South American Confederation

Hey Vene, do you have any ideas on anything else we should add into the SAC? Arstar 05:17, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Hello Venezuela,

I would like to tell you that Civilization (Map Game) has started and that you may post your turn. After turn one if you do not post after two days you are declared inactive, and (unless you come back on and save yourself from invasion before you are conquered) you are free to be conquered.

Chicagoan 17:30, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


Immigrants did not always land at New York - in fact, they could land at any major port in the United States. Immigrants going to New York all the time is a common misconception, so dont worry about it much. I can tell you, however, that there was a lot of people from Lebanon and Syria that arrived in the time-frame you give, largely settling in New York and Boston, though a fair number - especially later than your great-grandmother left for Lebanon - did move west as well. I suspect as a result that most would have arrived at one of those two ports, including your ancestors.

Ancestry definitely would have the most accurate and complete records. As to more.... is an archive of those who arrived at New York City. You'll have to hunt around to find anything, but if you know their names, I figure you'll find them eventually if that's the right port.

For Boston, head over to for the same type of information. It's harder to use, and likely not as complete, but it would be a start.

For archives such as these, search in Google for "(name of city) immigration records" - should have a good hit for most US cities.

For the Ottoman side of things, try doing the same thing, but in Arabic (Beirut is the most likely city to try, btw). Note that this will be far more difficult to find, given the instability and fighting in the region since the First World War.

Hope this helps.

Lordganon 00:49, January 1, 2011 (UTC)


mira yo se que no somos amigos ni nada pero por que me robaste mi pais en massive impact mg, yo ya averigue que simpre me usaste en todo, todo lo que hice me lo robaste como mis articulos para cw, por eso me sali, y si no me apoyas tampoco me tienes que robar todo lo que hago. mas o menos muchas cosas que haces aqui son fraudes y nadamas me pides opiniones para usarme y salir ganando Migue235 00:09, January 2, 2011 (UTC)


mira, no te tigo por que estuve inactivo porque ya me tienes furioso y aqui no es el lugar para poner eso, pero tuve complicaciones, y por lo menos pregunta di algo avisame, algo, pero equis ya te lo puedes quedar, ya habras cambiado todo lo planeado. y yo no hago copy paste de tus cosas, y cuando he cambiado las banderas de sus cuadros Migue235 01:13, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Balkanized north america

Hola, me puedes dar ese articulo, ya sabes para q sea mi primero, si no t importa. Hablamos de eso despues si quieres pero si no avisame Fitzgarden 00:17, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

Principia Moderni

Hi. It appears as if you signed up as the country Incan Empire in Principia Moderni. As you may have seen, the game is scheduled to start on 21 January (tomorrow), despite the owner's absence, and progress as he intended it to. You may observe the map has been renovated and the page has been tidied up. Please respond to secure your position as an active player. —Detectivekenny; (info, talk) Preceding text certified by R. Xun as of 01:08, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

The Emperor of the Aztecs invites the noble lord of the Incans back to Prinicpia Moderni. I am hoping the two of us can avoid unwanted hostilities and upon your re-arrival war and bloodshed between you and I can be avoided.

Articulo Venezuela

Vene, por si acaso yo he estado escribiendo los articulos de paises sudamericanos en la timeline de Tbguy. Dado que la historia es de él, he tenido que ajustar la historia de cada país a lo que él ha escrito; el desarrollo historico de cada país resulta asi diferente y los gobiernos por ende son diferentes a los de OTL. Es asi como Venezuela es un historico aliado de Argentina y Peru en las 3 guerras globales. No creo que él cambie lo que ya ha escrito, pero quizás puedas colaborar con él y conmigo con ideas para la historia de venezuela desde es el fin de la Third Global War en 1946 y la guerra tipo Vietnam que va haber en el país, y sobre como se llevara cabo la restauración de Venezuela hasta el dia de hoy. Saludos!!! --Katholico 03:31, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

Primero, la Central American Republic se parece a la Gra Colombia pero es diferente, ya que solo incluye a Panama y parte de Ecuador. Aqui, Venezuela nunca esta unida a Colombia... solo cooperan entre ellas en las guerras de independencia, que a diferencia de OTL son mas bien como guerras de guerrillas por todo el continente, pero claro con Bolivar dirigiendo la lucha en el norte de America Latina. Vene, sé que te parece poco probable lo de Venezuela desapareciendo (TEMPORALMENTE), pero debes entender que en esta linea de tiempo, lo que Tbguy busco es que America Latina fuera mucho mas beligerante que en OTL, por eso hay guerras mas grandes y mas relevantes a nivel internacional; como Tbguy me ha dicho, él busca no repetir los mismos clichés que salen todas las historias alternas.

También yo podria decir lo mismo de Chile, pero como la timeline no es mia, decidi mejor ajustar la historia de mi pais a lo que escrito por Tbguy (¿Chile y Bolivia aliados en 2 guerras? eso nunca hubiera pasado!! xD). Pero eso es lo genial de las historias alternas, te permiten jugar con los eventos y cambiarlos RADICALMENTE. Yo te sugeriria que hicieras lo mismo, ajusta la historia de Venezuela, cambia las cosas, postergalas, etc. Para la 3GW, busca lideres que se puedan vincular al National Socialism, y recuerda que NO es Fascismo, sino como un Comunismo Nacionalista. y para la Guerra tipo Vietnam, busca quienes podrian liderar en Venezuela la rebelión por la libertad durante los años '60. Saludos --Katholico 18:50, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Venezuela in FTBW

Somehow I knew you were going to comment on this :p

Anyway, the first thing I would like to point out is that this is Alternate History. The entire History of Venezuela changed in the TL because of France winning the Battle of Trafalgar, which happened to delay the revolutions in the Spanish colonies. Now, I understand your views with this, but I really want to make this an Alternate History that doesn't follow the cliche's, which I hoped you would have seen throughout.

The story of Venezuela (and for that matter, most of Latin America) has only been general, but Katholico has been extremely helpful in helping to flesh it out, and pointing out the flaws in inconsistency's that most likely abound through this, so it might be better to ask him for the help there. However, I can give you a brief outline.

  • Gains independence in 1829 (Great Latin American Insurrection)
  • Remains Neutral in Rio de la Plata War (1846-1849) [note: this might change later]
  • Sides with winning side in First Global War (aka Second Latin American War) of Argentina and Peru (1858-1863)
  • Remains with Argentina and Peru in Second Global War (ATL's First World War) and is defeated (1911-1916)
  • National Socialist Government (which in this TL is a nationalistic communism, basically) is formed (1930's)
  • Remains allied with Argentina and Peru in Third Global War (ATL's Second World War) and is defeated.

Now, that is what I got to this moment. However, my plan in going forward is that Venezuela will, unfortunately, be divided between Colombia and Brazil, and cease to exist as a nation. But a Freedom fighter group will lead a Nationalistic revolt against the occupiers, which will result in a similarity with OTL's Vietnam War for Brazil and allies. Venezuela will then most likely fall in the French Sphere of Influence (as this will be a three way Cold War: US vs. France vs. Brazil).

Now, the reason the "pro-American" president thing really doesn't matter is that the US looses the Civil War, so if they are pro-America, they most likely would be "pro-Confederate" instead, which would help to explain the National Socialist Alliances. To the US, Brazil is the stronger ally (until the Cold War), so Venezuela would seek help from Argentina and the CSA, and in turn, Britain and Germany etc. etc.

I know you won;t like it if a Left-wing dictator comes top power in Venezuela, but he dies, and a strong Nationalistic President takes his place, allies with the French Empire, which is like OTL's Soviet Union, but won;t collapse until the near future (I want to say 2012, just so I can document the collapse of the French Empire in "Real-Time" when I get this done.

If you need anything about relations with other South American nations, I'd suggest Katholico, cause it's getting to the point he understands FTBW better than I do! And, yes, I would be more than glad if you want to help out, and feel free to tell me if something in the TL is off or doesn't work out right, or can be improved. Please and thanks! Tbguy1992 06:38, January 22, 2011 (UTC)


I would like to thank you for participating in the first week Principia Moderni (Map Game). It is definitely a milestone for a map game to last for a week, and thanks to your help, it is now a reality. As a token of thanks, I am allowing you to pick out a single colony which you may take, with certain limitations. Here they are:

  1. The colony must be within 1,500 miles of your country. This may help.
  2. The colony must begin as one to five coastal towns. It may not expand larger than 30 miles long and 5 miles inland until 1500.
  3. It may only be in an area labelled as "small states" or unorganized tribes on this map. Small states require four turns or more to conquer, two of which must be solely dedicated to war.
  4. You must send exploration before colonizing. The first exploration should be at least three years before first colonization.
  5. It is recommended you reserve your colony now to avoid conflicts.
  6. Favourable colonies are on strategic waterways.
  7. When you colonize depends on the first letter of your country, in order to maintain realism. This means actual colonization or war, exploration is okay outside this time period. Keep in mind you may always colonize after this time period, but not before:
  1. A and B: 1431-1433
  2. C and D: 1434-1436
  3. E and F: 1437-1439
  4. G and H: 1440-1442
  5. I and J: 1443-1445
  6. K and L: 1446-1448
  7. M and N: 1449-1451
  8. O and P: 1452-1454
  9. Q and R: 1455-1457
  10. S and T: 1458-1460
  11. U and V: 1461-1463
  12. W and X: 1464-1466
  13. Y and Z: 1467-1469

—Detectivekenny; (info, talk) Preceding text certified by R. Xun as of 02:03, January 28, 2011 (UTC)


(Perdóneme mi español; estoy practicando) Hace tiempo que editó usted en la línea de tiempo Principia Moderni. Valoro sus ediciones. Si no participa durante cinco turnos, su país estará en desorden. Si no participa usted durante diez turnos, hay que desconectarlo. Por favor participe a lo menos un acción cada cinco turnos. Gracias! —Detectivekenny; (info, talk) Preceding text certified by R. Xun as of 05:08, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Central World

Vene, volviste? :D

En lo que concierne a Central World, si, me interesaría revivirla. Fed (talk) 23:05, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Me gusta la idea. Fed (talk) 23:09, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Hola Vene, cuanto tiempo! Como has estado? Sobre Central World por supuesto que estaria feliz de que podamos seguir con la timeline!! Yo he intentado seguir con mis articulos, pero honestamente como mi inglés es muy basico (y el traductor solo ayuda hasta cierto punto) no he podido escribir mucho mas de que lo ya tengo planeado. Aqui estare para cuando quieras revivir la historia. Saludos!! :D --Katholico 23:19, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
Muy bien! Entendido, estaré viendo si se me ocurren otras ideas por mientras. Saludos :) --Katholico 23:26, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
Es dificil conjeturar, aunque en base a lo que nos ha mostrado la historia en especial en el ultimo tiempo, podria ocurrir muy bien eventos de esas caracteristicas. No obstante, las revueltas son espontaneas, impredibles y generalmente ocurren tras largos periodos de tiempo de inactividad y no se repiten. Es cierto como reaccionara el mundo si llegase ocurrir algo aqui asi, ya sea EEUU, Europa o China, o incluso los mismos paises de la region que no se vean afectados por esas teoricas revoluciones. En el caso chileno, veo en extremo dificil que algo asi suceda por una cuestion cultural e historica (pero bien me puedo equivocar, la historia tiene sus primeras veces para todos), y no se como reaccionara el gobierno si de pronto se viera rodeado por naciones en caos. Habra que ver como se desarrollan los acontecimientos en el continente para ver si hay algun signo de algo como lo ocurre en el mundo arabe. Saludos --Katholico 00:02, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

Nice to see you back in some form, Ven. I'll be willing to advise when asked on my talk page, but I won't actively contribute at all, I'm afraid. Lordganon 04:37, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

Ven, "I'm afraid" is not fear, but a slight regret. Think I told you that before, lol. I've other things to do.

Paragraphs, Ven! lol

Sounds too complicated, Ven. Always remember the "KISS" principle.

Lordganon 21:35, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

In response to your message; of course! ;) I actually forgot all about CW, lol... --XterrorX 22:16, April 11, 2011 (UTC)


Hi Ven, I did see your Future map in your userpage/profile, great work, asi q estas invitado cordialemnte a .Also your talk page is too long, maybe you can move the first part to User:VENEZUELA/archive1 like others users do, suerte fiera cuidate--Fero 04:25, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Novedades Wikia en Español

Hola Vene, como has estado?!! Aprovechando que te veo ahora (y antes que me olvide xD) podrias visitar la wikia en español para algunas cosas nuevas que hay como por ejemplo, un juego de mapas ambientado en 1840. :) Ademas de algunas nuevas historias alternas. Saludos! --Katholico 23:59, July 28, 2011 (UTC)


Hello Ven. I would just like to say I would like to adopt KwaZulu page from you. Is that ok? 1 Imp (Say Hi?!) 15:38, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Flag Making

Hello, good sir!

I recently have designed a flag for my family, as well as other things, but I do not know how to convert it to an image. I have already designed it, so I just need you to make it an image.

The flag design is similar to the flag of the Czech Republic, but with a black bottom band instead of red. 


A Grateful Patron

Commonwealth of Nations (1983: Doomsday)

I should like to adopt this pageBryce3 (talk) 17:38, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.